From mcp2004 at mail.ru Sat Dec 1 14:41:13 2012 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2012 00:41:13 +0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] =?utf-8?q?Converting_a_physical_Windows_Machine_to_a_H?= =?utf-8?q?yper-V_Virtual_Machine?= In-Reply-To: <1353619067.394564865@f169.mail.ru> References: <1353590783.597786506@f230.mail.ru><1353594206.183049482@f289.mail.ru> <722199D83C66495783FC3D071D708F22@creativesystemdesigns.com> <1353619067.394564865@f169.mail.ru> Message-ID: <1354394473.383512046@f315.mail.ru> Hi All -- Just wanted to note that I have got found time to finish a physical Win7 Ultimate PC convertion into a Hyper-V VM by using Disk2Vhd v.1.63 and Acronys True Image: - Disk2VHd converted C: and D: disks where I keep OS and most of development tools; - Acronys backed-up and restored E: disk where I keep source code, docs etc. I'm running converted VM under Hyper-V on Win -8 Pro on ASUS N76Vz notebook. VS2010 runnimg within that VM compiles large C# solutions quicker than on DELL Inspiron 9400. MS Access, Word, Excel - start and run also quicker as well as MS SQL 2008R2. I planned to use that Win7 VM till I will get all the projects converted into VS2012 ones, which I wanted to keep running within Win-8 VMs...? ... but VMs running under Hyper-V can't still support 1920x1080 screen resolution (http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/winserverhyperv/thread/19f32070-46c7-4dec-8824-9942f7fc5a2c/) so I will probably have to use the main physical notebook to keep all my development :( Thank you. -- Shamil Fri 23 Nov 2012 01:17:47 ?? Salakhetdinov Shamil : >Hi Jim -- > > That weren't problems, that were challenges :) > I must note system administration and hardware is not what I like and I know how to do well... > > Anyway: > > - I have finally got two disks (C - 100GB and D - 50GB) of my physical PC - DELL Inspiron 9400 - moved by Disk2Vhd v. 1.63 into one VHD on the new notebook ASUS N76Vz. The move/conversion took almost three hours as I used rather slow network connection (still to upgrade my 10 years old router/WAP) between old and new PCs. The old PC has two other disks - E: (50GB) and F: (100GB) which I left out of conversion; > > - I have then created a Win7 VM under Hyper-V Manager running on Win8 Prof, added converted VHD and created two "placeholder" SCSI disks E: and F: > > - I have then run my converted Win7 WM under Hyper-V running within Win8 Prof - and it worked! I'm really surprised and a bit excited I must note. If there will be no any issues/hardcore challenges found in the coming days then I'd be even more surprised: that Hyper-V and Disk2VHD v.21.63 conversion tool are really masterpiece technologies ! To backup/restore the other two disks (E: and F:) real data I will use Acronis, which I'm using on regular basis to make backups). As I have noted I created two "placeholder" disks for the sources E: and F: ones, which weren't moved but it looks like conversion utility - Disk2Vhd v.1.63 - creates such placeholders automatically (still to check)... > > The current challenge is to enabled/activate network connections for my VMs - do you know good sources describing how to do that enabling/activation for Hyper-V VMs? > > Thank you. > > - Shamil ><<< skipped >>> > > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sun Dec 2 14:40:58 2012 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2012 15:40:58 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] OT First sentences of a book. Message-ID: Suicicide was a family hobby. Given my advanced years, and I formed this rule about 40 years ago, but it stands the test. Any book that begins with "The" shall be flung aside with vehemence. No exceptions! All you lovely and literate friends, I want you to dredge up your favourite first sentences of novels you loved. Also permitted are first sentences from movies, first lines from poems, and obviously koans, since every single syllable in said form is invaluable.. From carbonnb at gmail.com Sun Dec 2 15:07:50 2012 From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2012 16:07:50 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] OT First sentences of a book. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Let's have this discussion over on OT please and thank you. Your Freindly Neighbourhood Listmaster. On 12/2/12, Arthur Fuller wrote: > Suicicide was a family hobby. > > Given my advanced years, and I formed this rule about 40 years ago, but it > stands the test. Any book that begins with "The" shall be flung aside with > vehemence. No exceptions! > > All you lovely and literate friends, I want you to dredge up your favourite > first sentences of novels you loved. Also permitted are first sentences > from movies, first lines from poems, and obviously koans, since every > single syllable in said form is invaluable.. > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Sent from my mobile device Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" From mcp2004 at mail.ru Sun Dec 2 17:19:31 2012 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2012 03:19:31 +0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] =?utf-8?q?Nested_Hyper-V_VMs=3A_WinPhone_8_Emulator_VM?= =?utf-8?q?_on_Win8_VM?= Message-ID: <1354490371.508774338@f314.mail.ru> Hi All -- Did you ever run a nested Hyper-V VM? I mean I plan to have VS2012 installed on Win8 VM and to use it to develop WinPhone8 applications. And WinPhone8 emulator is in fact a Hyper-V VM. Would that WinPhone8 VM run within its host Win8 VM? Thank you. -- Shamil? From mcp2004 at mail.ru Sun Dec 2 17:21:24 2012 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2012 03:21:24 +0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] =?utf-8?q?Create_and_Use_a_Virtual_Hard_Disk_on_Window?= =?utf-8?q?s_7_and_Windows_8?= Message-ID: <1354490484.536008316@f31.mail.ru> Hi All -- Do you use Virtual Hard Disks on real computers and on VMs as e.g. it is described in the following article: "Create and Use a Virtual Hard Disk on Windows 7" http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/ee872416.aspx ? ?I wonder wouldn't using virtual hard disks result in some (significant) performance hits especially when ?virtual hard disks will be shared on host computer to use them from VMs via "Map Network Drive" feature? Thank you. -- Shamil? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From gustav at cactus.dk Mon Dec 3 03:49:47 2012 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2012 10:49:47 +0100 Subject: [dba-Tech] Nested Hyper-V VMs: WinPhone 8 Emulator VM on Win8 VM Message-ID: <001a01cdd13b$8802e860$9808b920$@cactus.dk> Hi Shamil Only for the Windows Phone emulator. /gustav -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Salakhetdinov Shamil Sendt: 3. december 2012 00:20 Til: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Emne: [dba-Tech] Nested Hyper-V VMs: WinPhone 8 Emulator VM on Win8 VM Hi All -- Did you ever run a nested Hyper-V VM? I mean I plan to have VS2012 installed on Win8 VM and to use it to develop WinPhone8 applications. And WinPhone8 emulator is in fact a Hyper-V VM. Would that WinPhone8 VM run within its host Win8 VM? Thank you. -- Shamil From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Dec 3 04:08:07 2012 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2012 14:08:07 +0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] =?utf-8?q?Nested_Hyper-V_VMs=3A_WinPhone_8_Emulator_VM?= =?utf-8?q?_on_Win8_VM?= In-Reply-To: <001a01cdd13b$8802e860$9808b920$@cactus.dk> References: <001a01cdd13b$8802e860$9808b920$@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <1354529287.981138794@f158.mail.ru> Hi Gustav -- Thank you for your comment. I plan to check soon how it will working as I'm in process of setting a Win8/VS2012 development VM. -- Shamil Mon 3 Dec 2012 10:49:47 ?? "Gustav Brock" : > > > > >Hi Shamil > > Only for the Windows Phone emulator. > > /gustav > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Salakhetdinov Shamil > Sendt: 3. december 2012 00:20 > Til: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Emne: [dba-Tech] Nested Hyper-V VMs: WinPhone 8 Emulator VM on Win8 VM > > Hi All -- > > Did you ever run a nested Hyper-V VM? I mean I plan to have VS2012 installed on Win8 VM and to use it to develop WinPhone8 applications. And WinPhone8 emulator is in fact a Hyper-V VM. Would that WinPhone8 VM run within its host Win8 VM? > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Mon Dec 3 10:22:04 2012 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2012 11:22:04 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Can someone please tell me what all these directories are for? Message-ID: They all have unpronounceable names such as 9e7e915c9b8a76ffbbb13a67ca740a. And I have quite a lot of them, well less than a dozen so that is hardly a lot; OK, let's settle on Several, which is more than a few but fewer than a dozen. My initial guess is that they were created by various apps that I installed, but I have no evidence for this conjecture, or perhaps it's a hypothesis... I'm advancing in years and can no longer remember the difference between these terms. Can I safely nuke all these directories? Not that I need the space they occupy, I've still almost a TB of space left, but I just wonder what they are doing there and what purpose they serve. Is this yet another plot launched by some genius female in Russia or China or Brazil? Arthur From jason at purplecone.com Mon Dec 3 10:23:45 2012 From: jason at purplecone.com (Jason Strickland) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2012 11:23:45 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Can someone please tell me what all these directories are for? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Windows update extracted files. On Dec 3, 2012 11:23 AM, "Arthur Fuller" wrote: > They all have unpronounceable names such as 9e7e915c9b8a76ffbbb13a67ca740a. > And I have quite a lot of them, well less than a dozen so that is hardly a > lot; OK, let's settle on Several, which is more than a few but fewer than a > dozen. My initial guess is that they were created by various apps that I > installed, but I have no evidence for this conjecture, or perhaps it's a > hypothesis... I'm advancing in years and can no longer remember the > difference between these terms. > > Can I safely nuke all these directories? Not that I need the space they > occupy, I've still almost a TB of space left, but I just wonder what they > are doing there and what purpose they serve. Is this yet another plot > launched by some genius female in Russia or China or Brazil? > > Arthur > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Mon Dec 3 13:22:02 2012 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2012 14:22:02 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Can someone please tell me what all these directories are for? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks, Jason. Is it safe to delete them? A. From jason at purplecone.com Mon Dec 3 14:25:07 2012 From: jason at purplecone.com (Jason Strickland) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2012 15:25:07 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Can someone please tell me what all these directories are for? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I delete mine On Dec 3, 2012 2:23 PM, "Arthur Fuller" wrote: > Thanks, Jason. Is it safe to delete them? > > A. > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Dec 4 14:03:48 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2012 12:03:48 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] The state of the web In-Reply-To: <1354490484.536008316@f31.mail.ru> References: <1354490484.536008316@f31.mail.ru> Message-ID: <83114589446B4C86A0F9978D47CAE156@creativesystemdesigns.com> The web world is more than ever becoming "the" computer world. Most development is now done on the web. Whether the Cloud will eventually replace most in-house server based systems is debatable and will require much more security, management and backup features before it will be completely trustable. Apple, via Steve Jobs, stopped the whole advance of plug-in technology which was patching up browser functionality. It was not done for altruistic reasons but to stop third party application from skipping the Apple toll booth. But it did have a very important unexpected side-affect. It made browser designers dependant on open standards, superfast browsers, gave them the ability/responsibility for controlling security, that plug-in would never allow and the dominance of HTML5 and CSS3. Whether Mark Zuckerberg, likes or dislikes HTML5 is not important as the proprietary insecure plug-in world of the past is dead and dying...in fact he is trying to buck the tide. How many users will allow another vulnerable plug-in to install on their system so they can play a game or two? The other option is to use a proprietary server language. It can be built very fast but it does not take long before thousands of users will grind the whole system to a stop and then huge farms of special servers have to integrated...very expensive to own and very expensive to maintain. Those type of application solutions, on so many levels are no longer workable. The new web world is more and more evolving into distributive open standards, where data presentation is managed on the browsers and delegating servers for only managing the data marshalling, gathering and storing. http://www.thesecuritypractice.com/the_security_practice/2012/11/in-defense- of-html5-1.html Jim From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Dec 4 14:27:09 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2012 12:27:09 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] The automobile and the new OS war battle fields In-Reply-To: <83114589446B4C86A0F9978D47CAE156@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <1354490484.536008316@f31.mail.ru> <83114589446B4C86A0F9978D47CAE156@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <15C2999216694628A28218EB879769A5@creativesystemdesigns.com> In the battle fields of the automobile wars, Windows and Apple are off to an early start but the OSS world is now gearing up as Linux developers are now taking notice. Whether, like in most of the new battles, Linux will slowly dominated the theatre has yet to be seen. http://www.wired.com/autopia/2012/12/automotive-os-war/2/ It is interesting to note that Linux has been adopted by Cadillac as the OSS company of CUE http://www.wired.com/autopia/2012/05/2013-cadillac-xts/ Jim From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Dec 4 16:07:50 2012 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2012 02:07:50 +0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] =?utf-8?q?The_state_of_the_web?= Message-ID: <1354658870.67788394@f48.mail.ru> Hi Jim -- I have read this morning a poll of mobile apps devs companies (http://slon.ru/appheroes/kakim-budet-rynok-prilozheniy-v-2013-godu-mnenie-razrabotchikov-858560.xhtml?(in Russian)) - 66% vs. 33% suppose that native mobile apps will dominate over HTML5 within the next five years. (Yes, I realize that the mobile apps developers can be not the best polling source for "native mobile apps vs. HTM5 apps" question)... Thank you. -- Shamil ???????, 4 ??????? 2012, 12:03 ?? "Jim Lawrence" : > > > > >The web world is more than ever becoming "the" computer world. Most > development is now done on the web. Whether the Cloud will eventually > replace most in-house server based systems is debatable and will require > much more security, management and backup features before it will be > completely trustable. > > Apple, via Steve Jobs, stopped the whole advance of plug-in technology which > was patching up browser functionality. It was not done for altruistic > reasons but to stop third party application from skipping the Apple toll > booth. But it did have a very important unexpected side-affect. It made > browser designers dependant on open standards, superfast browsers, gave them > the ability/responsibility for controlling security, that plug-in would > never allow and the dominance of HTML5 and CSS3. > > Whether Mark Zuckerberg, likes or dislikes HTML5 is not important as the > proprietary insecure plug-in world of the past is dead and dying...in fact > he is trying to buck the tide. How many users will allow another vulnerable > plug-in to install on their system so they can play a game or two? The other > option is to use a proprietary server language. It can be built very fast > but it does not take long before thousands of users will grind the whole > system to a stop and then huge farms of special servers have to > integrated...very expensive to own and very expensive to maintain. Those > type of application solutions, on so many levels are no longer workable. > > The new web world is more and more evolving into distributive open > standards, where data presentation is managed on the browsers and delegating > servers for only managing the data marshalling, gathering and storing. > > >http://www.thesecuritypractice.com/the_security_practice/2012/11/in-defense- > of-html5-1.html > > Jim > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Dec 4 16:19:37 2012 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2012 08:19:37 +1000 Subject: [dba-Tech] The state of the web In-Reply-To: <1354658870.67788394@f48.mail.ru> References: <1354658870.67788394@f48.mail.ru> Message-ID: <50BE76F9.31184.1E380433@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Joe User doesn't knwo/care whether it is native app or HTML5 as long as the performance is acceptable. Developers possibly *are* the best polling source here. -- Stuart On 5 Dec 2012 at 2:07, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi Jim -- > > I have read this morning a poll of mobile apps devs companies > (http://slon.ru/appheroes/kakim-budet-rynok-prilozheniy-v-2013-godu-mne > nie-razrabotchikov-858560.xhtml?(in Russian)) - 66% vs. 33% suppose > that native mobile apps will dominate over HTML5 within the next five > years. (Yes, I realize that the mobile apps developers can be not the > best polling source for "native mobile apps vs. HTM5 apps" > question)... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Dec 4 17:01:10 2012 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2012 03:01:10 +0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] =?utf-8?q?The_state_of_the_web?= Message-ID: <1354662070.127150961@f162.mail.ru> Hi Stuart -- Well, the "Joe User" will have to download and to ?periodically update native apps, keep watching if they have enough space to get native apps' updates downloaded while HTML5 ones will be "automagically" available via mobile browser's search/favorites/.... Thank you. -- Shamil ?????, 5 ??????? 2012, 8:19 ?? "Stuart McLachlan" : > > > > >Joe User doesn't knwo/care whether it is native app or HTML5 as long as the performance is > acceptable. > > Developers possibly *are* the best polling source here. > > -- > Stuart > > On 5 Dec 2012 at 2:07, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > Hi Jim -- > > > > I have read this morning a poll of mobile apps devs companies > > (http://slon.ru/appheroes/kakim-budet-rynok-prilozheniy-v-2013-godu-mne > > nie-razrabotchikov-858560.xhtml?(in Russian)) - 66% vs. 33% suppose > > that native mobile apps will dominate over HTML5 within the next five > > years. (Yes, I realize that the mobile apps developers can be not the > > best polling source for "native mobile apps vs. HTM5 apps" > > question)... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- Shamil > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Dec 4 18:32:33 2012 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2012 10:32:33 +1000 Subject: [dba-Tech] The state of the web In-Reply-To: <1354662070.127150961@f162.mail.ru> References: <1354662070.127150961@f162.mail.ru> Message-ID: <50BE9621.11976.1EB1B838@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> That's one of my main grouches about mobile apps. It seems that for a lot of them, there is an updated version to download every week or so. :-( Of course, the same seems to be true of browsers these days :-) On 5 Dec 2012 at 3:01, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi Stuart -- > > Well, the "Joe User" will have to download and to ?periodically update > native apps, keep watching if they have enough space to get native > apps' updates downloaded while HTML5 ones will be "automagically" > available via mobile browser's search/favorites/.... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > > , 5 2012, 8:19 "Stuart McLachlan" : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Joe User doesn't knwo/care whether it is native app or HTML5 as long as the performance is > > > acceptable. > > > > > > Developers possibly *are* the best polling source here. > > > > > > -- > > > Stuart > > > > > > On 5 Dec 2012 at 2:07, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Jim -- > > > > > > > > I have read this morning a poll of mobile apps devs companies > > > > (http://slon.ru/appheroes/kakim-budet-rynok-prilozheniy-v-2013-godu-mne > > > > nie-razrabotchikov-858560.xhtml?(in Russian)) - 66% vs. 33% suppose > > > > that native mobile apps will dominate over HTML5 within the next five > > > > years. (Yes, I realize that the mobile apps developers can be not the > > > > best polling source for "native mobile apps vs. HTM5 apps" > > > > question)... > > > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > > > -- Shamil > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > dba-Tech mailing list > > > >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > > > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Tue Dec 4 19:05:25 2012 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2012 17:05:25 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] The state of the web In-Reply-To: <50BE9621.11976.1EB1B838@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <1354662070.127150961@f162.mail.ru> <50BE9621.11976.1EB1B838@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <874D5BE767014B288445A72328EA71C4@HAL9007> Adobe reader update EVERY freakin' time I start my comp. How could they possibly have so many updates? R -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 4:33 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The state of the web That's one of my main grouches about mobile apps. It seems that for a lot of them, there is an updated version to download every week or so. :-( Of course, the same seems to be true of browsers these days :-) On 5 Dec 2012 at 3:01, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi Stuart -- > > Well, the "Joe User" will have to download and to ?periodically update > native apps, keep watching if they have enough space to get native > apps' updates downloaded while HTML5 ones will be "automagically" > available via mobile browser's search/favorites/.... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > > , 5 2012, 8:19 "Stuart McLachlan" : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Joe User doesn't knwo/care whether it is native app or HTML5 as long > >as the performance is > > > acceptable. > > > > > > Developers possibly *are* the best polling source here. > > > > > > -- > > > Stuart > > > > > > On 5 Dec 2012 at 2:07, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Jim -- > > > > > > > > I have read this morning a poll of mobile apps devs companies > > > > (http://slon.ru/appheroes/kakim-budet-rynok-prilozheniy-v-2013-godu- > > mne > > > > nie-razrabotchikov-858560.xhtml?(in Russian)) - 66% vs. 33% suppose > > > > that native mobile apps will dominate over HTML5 within the next > > five > > > > years. (Yes, I realize that the mobile apps developers can be not > > the > > > > best polling source for "native mobile apps vs. HTM5 apps" > > > > question)... > > > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > > > -- Shamil > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > dba-Tech mailing list > > > >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > > > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From peter.brawley at earthlink.net Tue Dec 4 20:19:28 2012 From: peter.brawley at earthlink.net (Peter Brawley) Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2012 20:19:28 -0600 Subject: [dba-Tech] The state of the web In-Reply-To: <874D5BE767014B288445A72328EA71C4@HAL9007> References: <1354662070.127150961@f162.mail.ru> <50BE9621.11976.1EB1B838@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <874D5BE767014B288445A72328EA71C4@HAL9007> Message-ID: <50BEAF30.6090001@earthlink.net> On 2012-12-04 7:05 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Adobe reader update EVERY freakin' time I start my comp. How could they > possibly have so many updates? b-u-g-s... PB ----- > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 4:33 PM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The state of the web > > That's one of my main grouches about mobile apps. It seems that for a lot > of them, there is an updated version to download every week or so. :-( > > Of course, the same seems to be true of browsers these days :-) > > > On 5 Dec 2012 at 3:01, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >> Hi Stuart -- >> >> Well, the "Joe User" will have to download and to periodically update >> native apps, keep watching if they have enough space to get native >> apps' updates downloaded while HTML5 ones will be "automagically" >> available via mobile browser's search/favorites/.... >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- Shamil >> >> >> , 5 2012, 8:19 "Stuart McLachlan" : >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Joe User doesn't knwo/care whether it is native app or HTML5 as long >>> as the performance is >>> >> acceptable. >> Developers possibly *are* the best polling source here. >> -- >> Stuart >> On 5 Dec 2012 at 2:07, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >>> Hi Jim -- >>> >>> >>> >>> I have read this morning a poll of mobile apps devs companies >>> >>> (http://slon.ru/appheroes/kakim-budet-rynok-prilozheniy-v-2013-godu- >>> mne >>> >>> nie-razrabotchikov-858560.xhtml (in Russian)) - 66% vs. 33% suppose >>> >>> that native mobile apps will dominate over HTML5 within the next >>> five >>> >>> years. (Yes, I realize that the mobile apps developers can be not >>> the >>> >>> best polling source for "native mobile apps vs. HTM5 apps" >>> >>> question)... >>> >>> >>> >>> Thank you. >>> >>> >>> >>> -- Shamil >>> >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >>> >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Tue Dec 4 22:55:42 2012 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2012 20:55:42 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] The state of the web In-Reply-To: <50BEAF30.6090001@earthlink.net> References: <1354662070.127150961@f162.mail.ru><50BE9621.11976.1EB1B838@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><874D5BE767014B288445A72328EA71C4@HAL9007> <50BEAF30.6090001@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <73D35B37C32D489E81469EF4A835AF04@HAL9007> A bug a day? For years? Well,, gotta say, they're right on top of the fixes. R -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Peter Brawley Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 6:19 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The state of the web On 2012-12-04 7:05 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Adobe reader update EVERY freakin' time I start my comp. How could > they possibly have so many updates? b-u-g-s... PB ----- > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 4:33 PM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The state of the web > > That's one of my main grouches about mobile apps. It seems that for a > lot of them, there is an updated version to download every week or so. > :-( > > Of course, the same seems to be true of browsers these days :-) > > > On 5 Dec 2012 at 3:01, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >> Hi Stuart -- >> >> Well, the "Joe User" will have to download and to periodically >> update native apps, keep watching if they have enough space to get >> native apps' updates downloaded while HTML5 ones will be "automagically" >> available via mobile browser's search/favorites/.... >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- Shamil >> >> >> , 5 2012, 8:19 "Stuart McLachlan" : >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Joe User doesn't knwo/care whether it is native app or HTML5 as long >>> as the performance is >>> >> acceptable. >> Developers possibly *are* the best polling source here. >> -- >> Stuart >> On 5 Dec 2012 at 2:07, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >>> Hi Jim -- >>> >>> >>> >>> I have read this morning a poll of mobile apps devs companies >>> >>> (http://slon.ru/appheroes/kakim-budet-rynok-prilozheniy-v-2013-godu- >>> mne >>> >>> nie-razrabotchikov-858560.xhtml (in Russian)) - 66% vs. 33% suppose >>> >>> that native mobile apps will dominate over HTML5 within the next >>> five >>> >>> years. (Yes, I realize that the mobile apps developers can be not >>> the >>> >>> best polling source for "native mobile apps vs. HTM5 apps" >>> >>> question)... >>> >>> >>> >>> Thank you. >>> >>> >>> >>> -- Shamil >>> >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >>> >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Dec 5 01:33:22 2012 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 08:33:22 +0100 Subject: [dba-Tech] The state of the web In-Reply-To: <83114589446B4C86A0F9978D47CAE156@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <1354490484.536008316@f31.mail.ru> <83114589446B4C86A0F9978D47CAE156@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <004901cdd2ba$cdd830e0$698892a0$@cactus.dk> Hi Jim So true. My latest small apps were created in LightSwitch and deployed to an external host running at a ridicously low monthly charge even though it operates ultra reliably. I never communicated with the client other than by e-mail, and finally posted the URLs to the apps to be launched with SilverLight on the client's mix of Mac and Windows computers. Can't be easier, except if the new HTML5 client of LightSwitch had been used but I'm not there yet. /gustav -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Jim Lawrence Sendt: 4. december 2012 21:04 Til: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Emne: [dba-Tech] The state of the web The web world is more than ever becoming "the" computer world. Most development is now done on the web. Whether the Cloud will eventually replace most in-house server based systems is debatable and will require much more security, management and backup features before it will be completely trustable. Apple, via Steve Jobs, stopped the whole advance of plug-in technology which was patching up browser functionality. It was not done for altruistic reasons but to stop third party application from skipping the Apple toll booth. But it did have a very important unexpected side-affect. It made browser designers dependant on open standards, superfast browsers, gave them the ability/responsibility for controlling security, that plug-in would never allow and the dominance of HTML5 and CSS3. Whether Mark Zuckerberg, likes or dislikes HTML5 is not important as the proprietary insecure plug-in world of the past is dead and dying...in fact he is trying to buck the tide. How many users will allow another vulnerable plug-in to install on their system so they can play a game or two? The other option is to use a proprietary server language. It can be built very fast but it does not take long before thousands of users will grind the whole system to a stop and then huge farms of special servers have to integrated...very expensive to own and very expensive to maintain. Those type of application solutions, on so many levels are no longer workable. The new web world is more and more evolving into distributive open standards, where data presentation is managed on the browsers and delegating servers for only managing the data marshalling, gathering and storing. http://www.thesecuritypractice.com/the_security_practice/2012/11/in-defense- of-html5-1.html Jim From hans.andersen at phulse.com Wed Dec 5 02:16:45 2012 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 00:16:45 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] The state of the web In-Reply-To: <73D35B37C32D489E81469EF4A835AF04@HAL9007> References: <1354662070.127150961@f162.mail.ru><50BE9621.11976.1EB1B838@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><874D5BE767014B288445A72328EA71C4@HAL9007> <50BEAF30.6090001@earthlink.net> <73D35B37C32D489E81469EF4A835AF04@HAL9007> Message-ID: Bugs = Security Holes that need patching Adobe is one of the worst companies in this regards these days. On 2012-12-04, at 8:55 PM, "Rocky Smolin" wrote: > A bug a day? For years? Well,, gotta say, they're right on top of the > fixes. > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Peter Brawley > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 6:19 PM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The state of the web > > On 2012-12-04 7:05 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >> Adobe reader update EVERY freakin' time I start my comp. How could >> they possibly have so many updates? > > b-u-g-s... > > PB > > ----- >> >> R >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart >> McLachlan >> Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 4:33 PM >> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues >> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The state of the web >> >> That's one of my main grouches about mobile apps. It seems that for a >> lot of them, there is an updated version to download every week or so. >> :-( >> >> Of course, the same seems to be true of browsers these days :-) >> >> >> On 5 Dec 2012 at 3:01, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >> >>> Hi Stuart -- >>> >>> Well, the "Joe User" will have to download and to periodically >>> update native apps, keep watching if they have enough space to get >>> native apps' updates downloaded while HTML5 ones will be "automagically" >>> available via mobile browser's search/favorites/.... >>> >>> Thank you. >>> >>> -- Shamil >>> >>> >>> , 5 2012, 8:19 "Stuart McLachlan" : >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> Joe User doesn't knwo/care whether it is native app or HTML5 as long >>>> as the performance is >>>> >>> acceptable. >>> Developers possibly *are* the best polling source here. >>> -- >>> Stuart >>> On 5 Dec 2012 at 2:07, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >>>> Hi Jim -- >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I have read this morning a poll of mobile apps devs companies >>>> >>>> (http://slon.ru/appheroes/kakim-budet-rynok-prilozheniy-v-2013-godu- >>>> mne >>>> >>>> nie-razrabotchikov-858560.xhtml (in Russian)) - 66% vs. 33% suppose >>>> >>>> that native mobile apps will dominate over HTML5 within the next >>>> five >>>> >>>> years. (Yes, I realize that the mobile apps developers can be not >>>> the >>>> >>>> best polling source for "native mobile apps vs. HTM5 apps" >>>> >>>> question)... >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Thank you. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- Shamil >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> dba-Tech mailing list >>>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >>>> >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> dba-Tech mailing list >>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jon.tydda at lonza.com Wed Dec 5 03:16:28 2012 From: jon.tydda at lonza.com (Tydda Jon - Slough) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 10:16:28 +0100 Subject: [dba-Tech] The state of the web In-Reply-To: <50BEAF30.6090001@earthlink.net> References: <1354662070.127150961@f162.mail.ru> <50BE9621.11976.1EB1B838@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <874D5BE767014B288445A72328EA71C4@HAL9007> <50BEAF30.6090001@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Nowhere near as bad as Firefox... there's a complete new version every two minutes, not just a patch or update... Jon -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Peter Brawley Sent: 05 December 2012 02:19 To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The state of the web On 2012-12-04 7:05 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Adobe reader update EVERY freakin' time I start my comp. How could > they possibly have so many updates? b-u-g-s... PB ----- > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 4:33 PM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The state of the web > > That's one of my main grouches about mobile apps. It seems that for a > lot of them, there is an updated version to download every week or so. > :-( > > Of course, the same seems to be true of browsers these days :-) > > > On 5 Dec 2012 at 3:01, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >> Hi Stuart -- >> >> Well, the "Joe User" will have to download and to periodically >> update native apps, keep watching if they have enough space to get >> native apps' updates downloaded while HTML5 ones will be "automagically" >> available via mobile browser's search/favorites/.... >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- Shamil >> >> >> , 5 2012, 8:19 "Stuart McLachlan" : >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Joe User doesn't knwo/care whether it is native app or HTML5 as long >>> as the performance is >>> >> acceptable. >> Developers possibly *are* the best polling source here. >> -- >> Stuart >> On 5 Dec 2012 at 2:07, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >>> Hi Jim -- >>> >>> >>> >>> I have read this morning a poll of mobile apps devs companies >>> >>> (http://slon.ru/appheroes/kakim-budet-rynok-prilozheniy-v-2013-godu- >>> mne >>> >>> nie-razrabotchikov-858560.xhtml (in Russian)) - 66% vs. 33% suppose >>> >>> that native mobile apps will dominate over HTML5 within the next >>> five >>> >>> years. (Yes, I realize that the mobile apps developers can be not >>> the >>> >>> best polling source for "native mobile apps vs. HTM5 apps" >>> >>> question)... >>> >>> >>> >>> Thank you. >>> >>> >>> >>> -- Shamil >>> >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >>> >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com This communication and its attachments, if any, may contain confidential and privileged information the use of which by other persons or entities than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you receive this transmission in error, please contact the sender immediately and delete the material from your system. From peter.brawley at earthlink.net Wed Dec 5 04:06:44 2012 From: peter.brawley at earthlink.net (Peter Brawley) Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2012 04:06:44 -0600 Subject: [dba-Tech] The state of the web In-Reply-To: References: <1354662070.127150961@f162.mail.ru><50BE9621.11976.1EB1B838@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><874D5BE767014B288445A72328EA71C4@HAL9007> <50BEAF30.6090001@earthlink.net> <73D35B37C32D489E81469EF4A835AF04@HAL9007> Message-ID: <50BF1CB4.3060207@earthlink.net> On 2012-12-05 2:16 AM, Hans-Christian Andersen wrote: > Bugs = Security Holes that need patching > > Adobe is one of the worst companies in this regards these days. Their PDF software is awkward to use, ie a UI reflection of design problems. PB ----- > > > > On 2012-12-04, at 8:55 PM, "Rocky Smolin" wrote: > >> A bug a day? For years? Well,, gotta say, they're right on top of the >> fixes. >> >> R >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Peter Brawley >> Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 6:19 PM >> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues >> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The state of the web >> >> On 2012-12-04 7:05 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >>> Adobe reader update EVERY freakin' time I start my comp. How could >>> they possibly have so many updates? >> b-u-g-s... >> >> PB >> >> ----- >>> R >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart >>> McLachlan >>> Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 4:33 PM >>> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues >>> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The state of the web >>> >>> That's one of my main grouches about mobile apps. It seems that for a >>> lot of them, there is an updated version to download every week or so. >>> :-( >>> >>> Of course, the same seems to be true of browsers these days :-) >>> >>> >>> On 5 Dec 2012 at 3:01, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Stuart -- >>>> >>>> Well, the "Joe User" will have to download and to periodically >>>> update native apps, keep watching if they have enough space to get >>>> native apps' updates downloaded while HTML5 ones will be "automagically" >>>> available via mobile browser's search/favorites/.... >>>> >>>> Thank you. >>>> >>>> -- Shamil >>>> >>>> >>>> , 5 2012, 8:19 "Stuart McLachlan" : >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Joe User doesn't knwo/care whether it is native app or HTML5 as long >>>>> as the performance is >>>>> >>>> acceptable. >>>> Developers possibly *are* the best polling source here. >>>> -- >>>> Stuart >>>> On 5 Dec 2012 at 2:07, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >>>>> Hi Jim -- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I have read this morning a poll of mobile apps devs companies >>>>> >>>>> (http://slon.ru/appheroes/kakim-budet-rynok-prilozheniy-v-2013-godu- >>>>> mne >>>>> >>>>> nie-razrabotchikov-858560.xhtml (in Russian)) - 66% vs. 33% suppose >>>>> >>>>> that native mobile apps will dominate over HTML5 within the next >>>>> five >>>>> >>>>> years. (Yes, I realize that the mobile apps developers can be not >>>>> the >>>>> >>>>> best polling source for "native mobile apps vs. HTM5 apps" >>>>> >>>>> question)... >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thank you. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- Shamil >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> dba-Tech mailing list >>>>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >>>>> >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> dba-Tech mailing list >>>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> dba-Tech mailing list >>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> dba-Tech mailing list >>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jon.tydda at lonza.com Wed Dec 5 04:09:40 2012 From: jon.tydda at lonza.com (Tydda Jon - Slough) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 11:09:40 +0100 Subject: [dba-Tech] The state of the web In-Reply-To: <50BF1CB4.3060207@earthlink.net> References: <1354662070.127150961@f162.mail.ru><50BE9621.11976.1EB1B838@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><874D5BE767014B288445A72328EA71C4@HAL9007> <50BEAF30.6090001@earthlink.net> <73D35B37C32D489E81469EF4A835AF04@HAL9007> <50BF1CB4.3060207@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Try Nitro PDF - we've just purchased it here - it's around a third of the price of Acrobat Standard, it has more features, looks nicer, and is faster... Jon -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Peter Brawley Sent: 05 December 2012 10:07 To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The state of the web On 2012-12-05 2:16 AM, Hans-Christian Andersen wrote: > Bugs = Security Holes that need patching > > Adobe is one of the worst companies in this regards these days. Their PDF software is awkward to use, ie a UI reflection of design problems. PB ----- > > > > On 2012-12-04, at 8:55 PM, "Rocky Smolin" wrote: > >> A bug a day? For years? Well,, gotta say, they're right on top of >> the fixes. >> >> R >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Peter >> Brawley >> Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 6:19 PM >> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues >> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The state of the web >> >> On 2012-12-04 7:05 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >>> Adobe reader update EVERY freakin' time I start my comp. How could >>> they possibly have so many updates? >> b-u-g-s... >> >> PB >> >> ----- >>> R >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart >>> McLachlan >>> Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 4:33 PM >>> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues >>> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The state of the web >>> >>> That's one of my main grouches about mobile apps. It seems that for >>> a lot of them, there is an updated version to download every week or so. >>> :-( >>> >>> Of course, the same seems to be true of browsers these days :-) >>> >>> >>> On 5 Dec 2012 at 3:01, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Stuart -- >>>> >>>> Well, the "Joe User" will have to download and to periodically >>>> update native apps, keep watching if they have enough space to get >>>> native apps' updates downloaded while HTML5 ones will be "automagically" >>>> available via mobile browser's search/favorites/.... >>>> >>>> Thank you. >>>> >>>> -- Shamil >>>> >>>> >>>> , 5 2012, 8:19 "Stuart McLachlan" : >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Joe User doesn't knwo/care whether it is native app or HTML5 as >>>>> long as the performance is >>>>> >>>> acceptable. >>>> Developers possibly *are* the best polling source here. >>>> -- >>>> Stuart >>>> On 5 Dec 2012 at 2:07, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >>>>> Hi Jim -- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I have read this morning a poll of mobile apps devs companies >>>>> >>>>> (http://slon.ru/appheroes/kakim-budet-rynok-prilozheniy-v-2013-god >>>>> u- >>>>> mne >>>>> >>>>> nie-razrabotchikov-858560.xhtml (in Russian)) - 66% vs. 33% >>>>> suppose >>>>> >>>>> that native mobile apps will dominate over HTML5 within the next >>>>> five >>>>> >>>>> years. (Yes, I realize that the mobile apps developers can be not >>>>> the >>>>> >>>>> best polling source for "native mobile apps vs. HTM5 apps" >>>>> >>>>> question)... >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thank you. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- Shamil >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> dba-Tech mailing list >>>>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >>>>> >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> dba-Tech mailing list >>>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> dba-Tech mailing list >>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> dba-Tech mailing list >>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com This communication and its attachments, if any, may contain confidential and privileged information the use of which by other persons or entities than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you receive this transmission in error, please contact the sender immediately and delete the material from your system. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Dec 5 05:43:25 2012 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2012 21:43:25 +1000 Subject: [dba-Tech] The state of the web In-Reply-To: References: <1354662070.127150961@f162.mail.ru>, <50BF1CB4.3060207@earthlink.net>, Message-ID: <50BF335D.23628.2117EA2D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I use Foxit. -- Stuart On 5 Dec 2012 at 11:09, Tydda Jon - Slough wrote: > Try Nitro PDF - we've just purchased it here - it's around a third of the price of Acrobat Standard, it has more features, looks nicer, and is faster... > > > Jon > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Peter Brawley > Sent: 05 December 2012 10:07 > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The state of the web > > On 2012-12-05 2:16 AM, Hans-Christian Andersen wrote: > > Bugs = Security Holes that need patching > > > > Adobe is one of the worst companies in this regards these days. > > Their PDF software is awkward to use, ie a UI reflection of design problems. > > PB > > ----- > > > > > > > > On 2012-12-04, at 8:55 PM, "Rocky Smolin" wrote: > > > >> A bug a day? For years? Well,, gotta say, they're right on top of > >> the fixes. > >> > >> R > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Peter > >> Brawley > >> Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 6:19 PM > >> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > >> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The state of the web > >> > >> On 2012-12-04 7:05 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > >>> Adobe reader update EVERY freakin' time I start my comp. How could > >>> they possibly have so many updates? > >> b-u-g-s... > >> > >> PB > >> > >> ----- > >>> R > >>> > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >>> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > >>> McLachlan > >>> Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 4:33 PM > >>> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > >>> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The state of the web > >>> > >>> That's one of my main grouches about mobile apps. It seems that for > >>> a lot of them, there is an updated version to download every week or so. > >>> :-( > >>> > >>> Of course, the same seems to be true of browsers these days :-) > >>> > >>> > >>> On 5 Dec 2012 at 3:01, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >>> > >>>> Hi Stuart -- > >>>> > >>>> Well, the "Joe User" will have to download and to periodically > >>>> update native apps, keep watching if they have enough space to get > >>>> native apps' updates downloaded while HTML5 ones will be "automagically" > >>>> available via mobile browser's search/favorites/.... > >>>> > >>>> Thank you. > >>>> > >>>> -- Shamil > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> , 5 2012, 8:19 "Stuart McLachlan" : > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> Joe User doesn't knwo/care whether it is native app or HTML5 as > >>>>> long as the performance is > >>>>> > >>>> acceptable. > >>>> Developers possibly *are* the best polling source here. > >>>> -- > >>>> Stuart > >>>> On 5 Dec 2012 at 2:07, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >>>>> Hi Jim -- > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> I have read this morning a poll of mobile apps devs companies > >>>>> > >>>>> (http://slon.ru/appheroes/kakim-budet-rynok-prilozheniy-v-2013-god > >>>>> u- > >>>>> mne > >>>>> > >>>>> nie-razrabotchikov-858560.xhtml (in Russian)) - 66% vs. 33% > >>>>> suppose > >>>>> > >>>>> that native mobile apps will dominate over HTML5 within the next > >>>>> five > >>>>> > >>>>> years. (Yes, I realize that the mobile apps developers can be not > >>>>> the > >>>>> > >>>>> best polling source for "native mobile apps vs. HTM5 apps" > >>>>> > >>>>> question)... > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Thank you. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> -- Shamil > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> dba-Tech mailing list > >>>>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > >>>>> > >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > >>>>> > >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> dba-Tech mailing list > >>>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> dba-Tech mailing list > >>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> dba-Tech mailing list > >>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> dba-Tech mailing list > >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> dba-Tech mailing list > >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-Tech mailing list > > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > This communication and its attachments, if any, may contain confidential and privileged information the use of which by other persons or entities than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you receive this transmission in error, please contact the sender immediately and delete the material from your system. > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Dec 5 08:22:14 2012 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2012 18:22:14 +0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] =?utf-8?q?Text_to_speech?= Message-ID: <1354717334.410549116@f346.mail.ru> Hi All -- I'd like to make conversion of a set of transcript texts to speech. Here is the site http://www.text2speech.org/ which makes rather satisfactory conversion, still I'd like to: - have an option to define?pronunciation/aliasing?pronunciation?of some (key)words, e.g. the referred above site does result in 'C#" pronounced as 'c hash" and I'd like it to be pronounced as 'c sharp'; - have more "human being alike" voice - the 'American Male 2' voice from http://www.text2speech.org/?does sound not bad still it's sounding too artificial and I hope there could be more natural generated voice options available somewhere. Free solution preferred but I'd pay for it if it wouldn't be too expensive... Thank you. -- Shamil? From df.waters at comcast.net Wed Dec 5 11:13:33 2012 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 11:13:33 -0600 Subject: [dba-Tech] Text to speech In-Reply-To: <1354717334.410549116@f346.mail.ru> References: <1354717334.410549116@f346.mail.ru> Message-ID: <004001cdd30b$db6d3240$924796c0$@comcast.net> Hi Shamil, I remember that Excel has a text-to-speech function - at least it did a few years ago. The voice was not very natural, but it is free and readily available. I always thought it would be fun to provide voice dialog boxes, but it turns out that many of my users don't have speakers or a sound card. Good Luck! Dan -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2012 8:22 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: [dba-Tech] Text to speech Hi All -- I'd like to make conversion of a set of transcript texts to speech. Here is the site http://www.text2speech.org/ which makes rather satisfactory conversion, still I'd like to: - have an option to define?pronunciation/aliasing?pronunciation?of some (key)words, e.g. the referred above site does result in 'C#" pronounced as 'c hash" and I'd like it to be pronounced as 'c sharp'; - have more "human being alike" voice - the 'American Male 2' voice from http://www.text2speech.org/?does sound not bad still it's sounding too artificial and I hope there could be more natural generated voice options available somewhere. Free solution preferred but I'd pay for it if it wouldn't be too expensive... Thank you. -- Shamil? _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Wed Dec 5 11:33:18 2012 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 09:33:18 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] Text to speech In-Reply-To: <004001cdd30b$db6d3240$924796c0$@comcast.net> References: <1354717334.410549116@f346.mail.ru> <004001cdd30b$db6d3240$924796c0$@comcast.net> Message-ID: In 1974 as a graduate student I worked on a DARPA project to convert text to speech. We were working with one of the earliest voice synthesizers - Votrax from the Vocal Division of the Federal Screw Works http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Votrax. It was phoneme based and didn't have a bad voice. Very computer like but understandable. I'm surprised at how little progress has been made in this natural speech area. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2012 9:14 AM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Text to speech Hi Shamil, I remember that Excel has a text-to-speech function - at least it did a few years ago. The voice was not very natural, but it is free and readily available. I always thought it would be fun to provide voice dialog boxes, but it turns out that many of my users don't have speakers or a sound card. Good Luck! Dan -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2012 8:22 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: [dba-Tech] Text to speech Hi All -- I'd like to make conversion of a set of transcript texts to speech. Here is the site http://www.text2speech.org/ which makes rather satisfactory conversion, still I'd like to: - have an option to define pronunciation/aliasing pronunciation of some (key)words, e.g. the referred above site does result in 'C#" pronounced as 'c hash" and I'd like it to be pronounced as 'c sharp'; - have more "human being alike" voice - the 'American Male 2' voice from http://www.text2speech.org/ does sound not bad still it's sounding too artificial and I hope there could be more natural generated voice options available somewhere. Free solution preferred but I'd pay for it if it wouldn't be too expensive... Thank you. -- Shamil _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Dec 5 12:13:38 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 10:13:38 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] Text to speech In-Reply-To: <1354717334.410549116@f346.mail.ru> References: <1354717334.410549116@f346.mail.ru> Message-ID: <4EBB878AB1EE42FDB257BC97227FD4F0@creativesystemdesigns.com> There is an OSS called Festival. It can be made to run with applications or on the web. It still can be hardly thought of as delivering natural speech. Here's more: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Text_to_speech Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2012 6:22 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: [dba-Tech] Text to speech Hi All -- I'd like to make conversion of a set of transcript texts to speech. Here is the site http://www.text2speech.org/ which makes rather satisfactory conversion, still I'd like to: - have an option to define?pronunciation/aliasing?pronunciation?of some (key)words, e.g. the referred above site does result in 'C#" pronounced as 'c hash" and I'd like it to be pronounced as 'c sharp'; - have more "human being alike" voice - the 'American Male 2' voice from http://www.text2speech.org/?does sound not bad still it's sounding too artificial and I hope there could be more natural generated voice options available somewhere. Free solution preferred but I'd pay for it if it wouldn't be too expensive... Thank you. -- Shamil? _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Dec 5 13:15:22 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 11:15:22 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] The state of the web In-Reply-To: <874D5BE767014B288445A72328EA71C4@HAL9007> References: <1354662070.127150961@f162.mail.ru><50BE9621.11976.1EB1B838@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <874D5BE767014B288445A72328EA71C4@HAL9007> Message-ID: Some have said that Adobe reader is being used as an activity ploy. It does continuous system updates to view it adoption as well as continually keeping its product presents front and center. Aside: This is one of the main problems with applications being delivered directly to the desktop, whether Smartphone, pad or PC. If there are any programming or data manipulation capabilities within an application, especially if it also have the ability to access the internet, there are real possibilities of remote hacking or malware activity. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 5:05 PM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The state of the web Adobe reader update EVERY freakin' time I start my comp. How could they possibly have so many updates? R -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 4:33 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The state of the web That's one of my main grouches about mobile apps. It seems that for a lot of them, there is an updated version to download every week or so. :-( Of course, the same seems to be true of browsers these days :-) On 5 Dec 2012 at 3:01, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi Stuart -- > > Well, the "Joe User" will have to download and to ?periodically update > native apps, keep watching if they have enough space to get native > apps' updates downloaded while HTML5 ones will be "automagically" > available via mobile browser's search/favorites/.... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > > , 5 2012, 8:19 "Stuart McLachlan" : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Joe User doesn't knwo/care whether it is native app or HTML5 as long > >as the performance is > > > acceptable. > > > > > > Developers possibly *are* the best polling source here. > > > > > > -- > > > Stuart > > > > > > On 5 Dec 2012 at 2:07, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Jim -- > > > > > > > > I have read this morning a poll of mobile apps devs companies > > > > (http://slon.ru/appheroes/kakim-budet-rynok-prilozheniy-v-2013-godu- > > mne > > > > nie-razrabotchikov-858560.xhtml?(in Russian)) - 66% vs. 33% suppose > > > > that native mobile apps will dominate over HTML5 within the next > > five > > > > years. (Yes, I realize that the mobile apps developers can be not > > the > > > > best polling source for "native mobile apps vs. HTM5 apps" > > > > question)... > > > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > > > -- Shamil > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > dba-Tech mailing list > > > >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > > > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Dec 5 14:21:39 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 12:21:39 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] The state of the web In-Reply-To: <1354658870.67788394@f48.mail.ru> References: <1354658870.67788394@f48.mail.ru> Message-ID: <4C8B0D00B4114993BD0A3F4B63F96579@creativesystemdesigns.com> Those facts are definitely worthy of consideration and there will never be a time when proprietary desktop programs will not be needed and its advantages of raw speed are very necessary. OTOH Two factures should be considered when deploying any application larger than an app style product. One, security to both your server and the client when running a comprehensive web based application is carefully guarded through state-of-art technology deployed by your modern browser. There are numerous checks on any web site attempting to deploy what may be a suspect request. The Sandboxing within the current browsers is very good and very current (real-time) as it is being updated continuous. This is one area that you as a programmer do not have to be completely responsible for even if your host was hacked. Two, deployment and updates are virtually instantaneous. This functionality, lends itself well to the concept of agile programming. An online application/web site does not need to be completed before being launched. Components, modules, updates and fixes can be continuously streamed to all clients. There is no delay and few BE management issues to be concerned about. A couple of year ago when putting in new system is one of the many "box" stores, between customers, a casher noticed her register touch screen browser image change, adding a few more buttons. A couple of modules had been added at some central location and then had been deployed, within minutes, to every store across North America, Europe and parts of Asia. Impressive to say the least. (That can never be done with a desktop type application...though a browser based management system can sure help.) Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 2:08 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The state of the web Hi Jim -- I have read this morning a poll of mobile apps devs companies (http://slon.ru/appheroes/kakim-budet-rynok-prilozheniy-v-2013-godu-mnenie-r azrabotchikov-858560.xhtml?(in Russian)) - 66% vs. 33% suppose that native mobile apps will dominate over HTML5 within the next five years. (Yes, I realize that the mobile apps developers can be not the best polling source for "native mobile apps vs. HTM5 apps" question)... Thank you. -- Shamil ???????, 4 ??????? 2012, 12:03 ?? "Jim Lawrence" : > > > > >The web world is more than ever becoming "the" computer world. Most > development is now done on the web. Whether the Cloud will eventually > replace most in-house server based systems is debatable and will require > much more security, management and backup features before it will be > completely trustable. > > Apple, via Steve Jobs, stopped the whole advance of plug-in technology which > was patching up browser functionality. It was not done for altruistic > reasons but to stop third party application from skipping the Apple toll > booth. But it did have a very important unexpected side-affect. It made > browser designers dependant on open standards, superfast browsers, gave them > the ability/responsibility for controlling security, that plug-in would > never allow and the dominance of HTML5 and CSS3. > > Whether Mark Zuckerberg, likes or dislikes HTML5 is not important as the > proprietary insecure plug-in world of the past is dead and dying...in fact > he is trying to buck the tide. How many users will allow another vulnerable > plug-in to install on their system so they can play a game or two? The other > option is to use a proprietary server language. It can be built very fast > but it does not take long before thousands of users will grind the whole > system to a stop and then huge farms of special servers have to > integrated...very expensive to own and very expensive to maintain. Those > type of application solutions, on so many levels are no longer workable. > > The new web world is more and more evolving into distributive open > standards, where data presentation is managed on the browsers and delegating > servers for only managing the data marshalling, gathering and storing. > > >http://www.thesecuritypractice.com/the_security_practice/2012/11/in-defense - > of-html5-1.html > > Jim > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Dec 5 14:56:02 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 12:56:02 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] The state of the web In-Reply-To: <1354658870.67788394@f48.mail.ru> References: <1354658870.67788394@f48.mail.ru> Message-ID: This is a very interesting article. I see little difference between observations made in Russia than the ones made here. Developer are still going to write most apps for iOS for the next little while as iPhone users are still willing to pay more but the market is rapidly changing. I suspect Android will get an ever larger share of the app market and prices as the number of good products continue to increase. Windows8 is well behind the curve and not serious predictions could be made for the next couple of years while waiting to see how well the product is adopted. I believe there is quite a difference between apps and full applications and games. Apps lend themselves well towards specific platforms as they are small dedicated programs. Re-writing for another OS is not a huge task. OTOH, when a program is a comprehensive application or game, re-designing for another platform is a major venture especially for a small developer team in a Startup company. This is where browser based HTML5 application come into their own. Our browsers are still not at the point where a serious application can achieve the performance matching a proprietary piece of software but I believe that it is a only a temporary obstacle. JIT browser compiling is under development and we should expect stellar speeds in the near future. Being able to write-once and deploy everywhere, on all platforms should be possible in the future. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 2:08 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The state of the web Hi Jim -- I have read this morning a poll of mobile apps devs companies (http://slon.ru/appheroes/kakim-budet-rynok-prilozheniy-v-2013-godu-mnenie-r azrabotchikov-858560.xhtml?(in Russian)) - 66% vs. 33% suppose that native mobile apps will dominate over HTML5 within the next five years. (Yes, I realize that the mobile apps developers can be not the best polling source for "native mobile apps vs. HTM5 apps" question)... Thank you. -- Shamil ???????, 4 ??????? 2012, 12:03 ?? "Jim Lawrence" : > > > > >The web world is more than ever becoming "the" computer world. Most > development is now done on the web. Whether the Cloud will eventually > replace most in-house server based systems is debatable and will require > much more security, management and backup features before it will be > completely trustable. > > Apple, via Steve Jobs, stopped the whole advance of plug-in technology which > was patching up browser functionality. It was not done for altruistic > reasons but to stop third party application from skipping the Apple toll > booth. But it did have a very important unexpected side-affect. It made > browser designers dependant on open standards, superfast browsers, gave them > the ability/responsibility for controlling security, that plug-in would > never allow and the dominance of HTML5 and CSS3. > > Whether Mark Zuckerberg, likes or dislikes HTML5 is not important as the > proprietary insecure plug-in world of the past is dead and dying...in fact > he is trying to buck the tide. How many users will allow another vulnerable > plug-in to install on their system so they can play a game or two? The other > option is to use a proprietary server language. It can be built very fast > but it does not take long before thousands of users will grind the whole > system to a stop and then huge farms of special servers have to > integrated...very expensive to own and very expensive to maintain. Those > type of application solutions, on so many levels are no longer workable. > > The new web world is more and more evolving into distributive open > standards, where data presentation is managed on the browsers and delegating > servers for only managing the data marshalling, gathering and storing. > > >http://www.thesecuritypractice.com/the_security_practice/2012/11/in-defense - > of-html5-1.html > > Jim > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Dec 5 14:59:54 2012 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2012 06:59:54 +1000 Subject: [dba-Tech] Text to speech In-Reply-To: <1354717334.410549116@f346.mail.ru> References: <1354717334.410549116@f346.mail.ru> Message-ID: <50BFB5CA.30674.231564D2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> This site may be useful in helping you find something: http://www.webbie.org.uk/Veli-Pekka/reviews_of_speech_synths.html On 5 Dec 2012 at 18:22, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi All -- > > I'd like to make conversion of a set of transcript texts to speech. > Here is the site > > http://www.text2speech.org/ > > which makes rather satisfactory conversion, still I'd like to: > > - have an option to define?pronunciation/aliasing?pronunciation?of some (key)words, e.g. the referred above site does result in 'C#" pronounced as 'c hash" and I'd like it to be pronounced as 'c sharp'; > - have more "human being alike" voice - the 'American Male 2' voice from http://www.text2speech.org/?does sound not bad still it's sounding too artificial and I hope there could be more natural generated voice options available somewhere. > > Free solution preferred but I'd pay for it if it wouldn't be too expensive... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil? > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Dec 5 15:07:30 2012 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2012 07:07:30 +1000 Subject: [dba-Tech] The state of the web In-Reply-To: <4C8B0D00B4114993BD0A3F4B63F96579@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <1354658870.67788394@f48.mail.ru>, <4C8B0D00B4114993BD0A3F4B63F96579@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <50BFB792.5497.231C5AC4@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Of course it can be done with a desktop type application.. It helps if you use a OOP approach and encapsulated functionality and resources into a collection of small DLLs, The same sort of thinh happens all the time with AV program updates etc. How many installations of Avast etc do you think get updated every minute? -- Stuart On 5 Dec 2012 at 12:21, Jim Lawrence wrote: > A couple of year ago when putting in new system is one of the many "box" > stores, between customers, a casher noticed her register touch screen > browser image change, adding a few more buttons. A couple of modules had > been added at some central location and then had been deployed, within > minutes, to every store across North America, Europe and parts of Asia. > Impressive to say the least. (That can never be done with a desktop type > application...though a browser based management system can sure help.) > > Jim > From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Dec 5 15:16:05 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 13:16:05 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] The state of the web In-Reply-To: <004901cdd2ba$cdd830e0$698892a0$@cactus.dk> References: <1354490484.536008316@f31.mail.ru><83114589446B4C86A0F9978D47CAE156@creativesystemdesigns.com> <004901cdd2ba$cdd830e0$698892a0$@cactus.dk> Message-ID: LightSwitch looks like a great application allowing very quick development but have not had an opportunity to use it myself. SilverLight is a browser plugin and though I have not used it, doubt that it is allowed on all browsers and on all platforms? Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 11:33 PM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The state of the web Hi Jim So true. My latest small apps were created in LightSwitch and deployed to an external host running at a ridicously low monthly charge even though it operates ultra reliably. I never communicated with the client other than by e-mail, and finally posted the URLs to the apps to be launched with SilverLight on the client's mix of Mac and Windows computers. Can't be easier, except if the new HTML5 client of LightSwitch had been used but I'm not there yet. /gustav -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Jim Lawrence Sendt: 4. december 2012 21:04 Til: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Emne: [dba-Tech] The state of the web The web world is more than ever becoming "the" computer world. Most development is now done on the web. Whether the Cloud will eventually replace most in-house server based systems is debatable and will require much more security, management and backup features before it will be completely trustable. Apple, via Steve Jobs, stopped the whole advance of plug-in technology which was patching up browser functionality. It was not done for altruistic reasons but to stop third party application from skipping the Apple toll booth. But it did have a very important unexpected side-affect. It made browser designers dependant on open standards, superfast browsers, gave them the ability/responsibility for controlling security, that plug-in would never allow and the dominance of HTML5 and CSS3. Whether Mark Zuckerberg, likes or dislikes HTML5 is not important as the proprietary insecure plug-in world of the past is dead and dying...in fact he is trying to buck the tide. How many users will allow another vulnerable plug-in to install on their system so they can play a game or two? The other option is to use a proprietary server language. It can be built very fast but it does not take long before thousands of users will grind the whole system to a stop and then huge farms of special servers have to integrated...very expensive to own and very expensive to maintain. Those type of application solutions, on so many levels are no longer workable. The new web world is more and more evolving into distributive open standards, where data presentation is managed on the browsers and delegating servers for only managing the data marshalling, gathering and storing. http://www.thesecuritypractice.com/the_security_practice/2012/11/in-defense- of-html5-1.html Jim _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Dec 5 15:35:52 2012 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2012 07:35:52 +1000 Subject: [dba-Tech] The state of the web In-Reply-To: References: <1354490484.536008316@f31.mail.ru>, <004901cdd2ba$cdd830e0$698892a0$@cactus.dk>, Message-ID: <50BFBE38.3405.233650D6@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> AFAIK, SIlverlight is a plugin for most major browsers on x86 based WIndows and Mac only. Not Opera Not Linux or Android Not ARM That's probably why it s used on less tha 0.5% of websites :-( -- Stuart On 5 Dec 2012 at 13:16, Jim Lawrence wrote: > LightSwitch looks like a great application allowing very quick development > but have not had an opportunity to use it myself. > > SilverLight is a browser plugin and though I have not used it, doubt that it > is allowed on all browsers and on all platforms? > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 11:33 PM > To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The state of the web > > Hi Jim > > So true. > > My latest small apps were created in LightSwitch and deployed to an external > host running at a ridicously low monthly charge even though it operates > ultra reliably. > I never communicated with the client other than by e-mail, and finally > posted the URLs to the apps to be launched with SilverLight on the client's > mix of Mac and Windows computers. > > Can't be easier, except if the new HTML5 client of LightSwitch had been used > but I'm not there yet. > > /gustav > > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Jim Lawrence > Sendt: 4. december 2012 21:04 > Til: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' > Emne: [dba-Tech] The state of the web > > The web world is more than ever becoming "the" computer world. Most > development is now done on the web. Whether the Cloud will eventually > replace most in-house server based systems is debatable and will require > much more security, management and backup features before it will be > completely trustable. > > Apple, via Steve Jobs, stopped the whole advance of plug-in technology which > was patching up browser functionality. It was not done for altruistic > reasons but to stop third party application from skipping the Apple toll > booth. But it did have a very important unexpected side-affect. It made > browser designers dependant on open standards, superfast browsers, gave them > the ability/responsibility for controlling security, that plug-in would > never allow and the dominance of HTML5 and CSS3. > > Whether Mark Zuckerberg, likes or dislikes HTML5 is not important as the > proprietary insecure plug-in world of the past is dead and dying...in fact > he is trying to buck the tide. How many users will allow another vulnerable > plug-in to install on their system so they can play a game or two? The other > option is to use a proprietary server language. It can be built very fast > but it does not take long before thousands of users will grind the whole > system to a stop and then huge farms of special servers have to > integrated...very expensive to own and very expensive to maintain. Those > type of application solutions, on so many levels are no longer workable. > > The new web world is more and more evolving into distributive open > standards, where data presentation is managed on the browsers and delegating > servers for only managing the data marshalling, gathering and storing. > > http://www.thesecuritypractice.com/the_security_practice/2012/11/in-defense- > of-html5-1.html > > Jim > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Dec 5 15:38:28 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 13:38:28 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] The state of the web In-Reply-To: <50BFB792.5497.231C5AC4@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <1354658870.67788394@f48.mail.ru>, <4C8B0D00B4114993BD0A3F4B63F96579@creativesystemdesigns.com> <50BFB792.5497.231C5AC4@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Good points, Any application that will be deployed to your desktop has to have a level of security, verification and person confirmation before proceeding. Any less could result in serious malware damage within minutes. Web browser based application require none of that and any improvements or changes can either be performed via refresh or totally automatically with not users intervention or component installation. Until the competency of a user can be confirmed at the time of PC usage, we will still have to rely on VPNs, AVs, Vera-signed applications, SSL Certificates and well configured routers to protect users from themselves. Confining users to a sandbox environment can be much more secure and relaxing for a support tech. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2012 1:08 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The state of the web Of course it can be done with a desktop type application.. It helps if you use a OOP approach and encapsulated functionality and resources into a collection of small DLLs, The same sort of thinh happens all the time with AV program updates etc. How many installations of Avast etc do you think get updated every minute? -- Stuart On 5 Dec 2012 at 12:21, Jim Lawrence wrote: > A couple of year ago when putting in new system is one of the many "box" > stores, between customers, a casher noticed her register touch screen > browser image change, adding a few more buttons. A couple of modules had > been added at some central location and then had been deployed, within > minutes, to every store across North America, Europe and parts of Asia. > Impressive to say the least. (That can never be done with a desktop type > application...though a browser based management system can sure help.) > > Jim > _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Dec 5 15:43:52 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 13:43:52 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] The state of the web In-Reply-To: <50BFBE38.3405.233650D6@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <1354490484.536008316@f31.mail.ru>, <004901cdd2ba$cdd830e0$698892a0$@cactus.dk>, <50BFBE38.3405.233650D6@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Isn't it a Flash replacement? Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2012 1:36 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The state of the web AFAIK, SIlverlight is a plugin for most major browsers on x86 based WIndows and Mac only. Not Opera Not Linux or Android Not ARM That's probably why it s used on less tha 0.5% of websites :-( -- Stuart On 5 Dec 2012 at 13:16, Jim Lawrence wrote: > LightSwitch looks like a great application allowing very quick development > but have not had an opportunity to use it myself. > > SilverLight is a browser plugin and though I have not used it, doubt that it > is allowed on all browsers and on all platforms? > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 11:33 PM > To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The state of the web > > Hi Jim > > So true. > > My latest small apps were created in LightSwitch and deployed to an external > host running at a ridicously low monthly charge even though it operates > ultra reliably. > I never communicated with the client other than by e-mail, and finally > posted the URLs to the apps to be launched with SilverLight on the client's > mix of Mac and Windows computers. > > Can't be easier, except if the new HTML5 client of LightSwitch had been used > but I'm not there yet. > > /gustav > > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Jim Lawrence > Sendt: 4. december 2012 21:04 > Til: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' > Emne: [dba-Tech] The state of the web > > The web world is more than ever becoming "the" computer world. Most > development is now done on the web. Whether the Cloud will eventually > replace most in-house server based systems is debatable and will require > much more security, management and backup features before it will be > completely trustable. > > Apple, via Steve Jobs, stopped the whole advance of plug-in technology which > was patching up browser functionality. It was not done for altruistic > reasons but to stop third party application from skipping the Apple toll > booth. But it did have a very important unexpected side-affect. It made > browser designers dependant on open standards, superfast browsers, gave them > the ability/responsibility for controlling security, that plug-in would > never allow and the dominance of HTML5 and CSS3. > > Whether Mark Zuckerberg, likes or dislikes HTML5 is not important as the > proprietary insecure plug-in world of the past is dead and dying...in fact > he is trying to buck the tide. How many users will allow another vulnerable > plug-in to install on their system so they can play a game or two? The other > option is to use a proprietary server language. It can be built very fast > but it does not take long before thousands of users will grind the whole > system to a stop and then huge farms of special servers have to > integrated...very expensive to own and very expensive to maintain. Those > type of application solutions, on so many levels are no longer workable. > > The new web world is more and more evolving into distributive open > standards, where data presentation is managed on the browsers and delegating > servers for only managing the data marshalling, gathering and storing. > > http://www.thesecuritypractice.com/the_security_practice/2012/11/in-defense- > of-html5-1.html > > Jim > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Dec 5 16:05:20 2012 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2012 08:05:20 +1000 Subject: [dba-Tech] The state of the web In-Reply-To: References: <1354490484.536008316@f31.mail.ru>, <50BFBE38.3405.233650D6@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, Message-ID: <50BFC520.8139.23514D00@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> In Microsoft's dreams :-) On 5 Dec 2012 at 13:43, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Isn't it a Flash replacement? > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2012 1:36 PM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The state of the web > > AFAIK, SIlverlight is a plugin for most major browsers on x86 based WIndows > and Mac only. > > Not Opera > Not Linux or Android > Not ARM > > That's probably why it s used on less tha 0.5% of websites :-( > > -- > Stuart > > On 5 Dec 2012 at 13:16, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > LightSwitch looks like a great application allowing very quick development > > but have not had an opportunity to use it myself. > > > > SilverLight is a browser plugin and though I have not used it, doubt that > it > > is allowed on all browsers and on all platforms? > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock > > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 11:33 PM > > To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' > > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The state of the web > > > > Hi Jim > > > > So true. > > > > My latest small apps were created in LightSwitch and deployed to an > external > > host running at a ridicously low monthly charge even though it operates > > ultra reliably. > > I never communicated with the client other than by e-mail, and finally > > posted the URLs to the apps to be launched with SilverLight on the > client's > > mix of Mac and Windows computers. > > > > Can't be easier, except if the new HTML5 client of LightSwitch had been > used > > but I'm not there yet. > > > > /gustav > > > > > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > > Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Jim Lawrence > > Sendt: 4. december 2012 21:04 > > Til: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' > > Emne: [dba-Tech] The state of the web > > > > The web world is more than ever becoming "the" computer world. Most > > development is now done on the web. Whether the Cloud will eventually > > replace most in-house server based systems is debatable and will require > > much more security, management and backup features before it will be > > completely trustable. > > > > Apple, via Steve Jobs, stopped the whole advance of plug-in technology > which > > was patching up browser functionality. It was not done for altruistic > > reasons but to stop third party application from skipping the Apple toll > > booth. But it did have a very important unexpected side-affect. It made > > browser designers dependant on open standards, superfast browsers, gave > them > > the ability/responsibility for controlling security, that plug-in would > > never allow and the dominance of HTML5 and CSS3. > > > > Whether Mark Zuckerberg, likes or dislikes HTML5 is not important as the > > proprietary insecure plug-in world of the past is dead and dying...in fact > > he is trying to buck the tide. How many users will allow another > vulnerable > > plug-in to install on their system so they can play a game or two? The > other > > option is to use a proprietary server language. It can be built very fast > > but it does not take long before thousands of users will grind the whole > > system to a stop and then huge farms of special servers have to > > integrated...very expensive to own and very expensive to maintain. Those > > type of application solutions, on so many levels are no longer workable. > > > > The new web world is more and more evolving into distributive open > > standards, where data presentation is managed on the browsers and > delegating > > servers for only managing the data marshalling, gathering and storing. > > > > > http://www.thesecuritypractice.com/the_security_practice/2012/11/in-defense- > > of-html5-1.html > > > > Jim > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-Tech mailing list > > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-Tech mailing list > > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Gustav at cactus.dk Wed Dec 5 16:37:40 2012 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2012 23:37:40 +0100 Subject: [dba-Tech] The state of the web Message-ID: Hi Jim Most frustrating part is that no 64-bit version will be made. It appears that - for LightSwitch - focus now is on the HTML5 client: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/vstudio/htmlclient /gustav >>> accessd at shaw.ca 05-12-12 22:16 >>> LightSwitch looks like a great application allowing very quick development but have not had an opportunity to use it myself. SilverLight is a browser plugin and though I have not used it, doubt that it is allowed on all browsers and on all platforms? Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 11:33 PM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The state of the web Hi Jim So true. My latest small apps were created in LightSwitch and deployed to an external host running at a ridicously low monthly charge even though it operates ultra reliably. I never communicated with the client other than by e-mail, and finally posted the URLs to the apps to be launched with SilverLight on the client's mix of Mac and Windows computers. Can't be easier, except if the new HTML5 client of LightSwitch had been used but I'm not there yet. /gustav -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Jim Lawrence Sendt: 4. december 2012 21:04 Til: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Emne: [dba-Tech] The state of the web The web world is more than ever becoming "the" computer world. Most development is now done on the web. Whether the Cloud will eventually replace most in-house server based systems is debatable and will require much more security, management and backup features before it will be completely trustable. Apple, via Steve Jobs, stopped the whole advance of plug-in technology which was patching up browser functionality. It was not done for altruistic reasons but to stop third party application from skipping the Apple toll booth. But it did have a very important unexpected side-affect. It made browser designers dependant on open standards, superfast browsers, gave them the ability/responsibility for controlling security, that plug-in would never allow and the dominance of HTML5 and CSS3. Whether Mark Zuckerberg, likes or dislikes HTML5 is not important as the proprietary insecure plug-in world of the past is dead and dying...in fact he is trying to buck the tide. How many users will allow another vulnerable plug-in to install on their system so they can play a game or two? The other option is to use a proprietary server language. It can be built very fast but it does not take long before thousands of users will grind the whole system to a stop and then huge farms of special servers have to integrated...very expensive to own and very expensive to maintain. Those type of application solutions, on so many levels are no longer workable. The new web world is more and more evolving into distributive open standards, where data presentation is managed on the browsers and delegating servers for only managing the data marshalling, gathering and storing. http://www.thesecuritypractice.com/the_security_practice/2012/11/in-defense- of-html5-1.html Jim From hans.andersen at phulse.com Wed Dec 5 16:47:02 2012 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 14:47:02 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] The state of the web In-Reply-To: References: <1354490484.536008316@f31.mail.ru><83114589446B4C86A0F9978D47CAE156@creativesystemdesigns.com> <004901cdd2ba$cdd830e0$698892a0$@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <85E5E1C5-E50A-48A1-8C62-3AEEC4186AE7@phulse.com> Silverlight is a dead product. Microsoft is all about touting HTML5 these days and keeping Silverlight at arms length. Notice that they don't support Silverlight in Metro app development. Besides, it's not wise to use an application framework for internet applications/media that isn't cross platform or supported across all browsers and that's part of the reason it never amounted to much. Another major reason is because Microsoft holds no weight on the mobile platform and, if your video doesn't play on an apple iphone or samsung galaxy because you decided to use silverlight to stream it, well... you have yourself a problem. Hans On 2012-12-05, at 1:16 PM, "Jim Lawrence" wrote: > LightSwitch looks like a great application allowing very quick development > but have not had an opportunity to use it myself. > > SilverLight is a browser plugin and though I have not used it, doubt that it > is allowed on all browsers and on all platforms? > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 11:33 PM > To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The state of the web > > Hi Jim > > So true. > > My latest small apps were created in LightSwitch and deployed to an external > host running at a ridicously low monthly charge even though it operates > ultra reliably. > I never communicated with the client other than by e-mail, and finally > posted the URLs to the apps to be launched with SilverLight on the client's > mix of Mac and Windows computers. > > Can't be easier, except if the new HTML5 client of LightSwitch had been used > but I'm not there yet. > > /gustav > > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Jim Lawrence > Sendt: 4. december 2012 21:04 > Til: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' > Emne: [dba-Tech] The state of the web > > The web world is more than ever becoming "the" computer world. Most > development is now done on the web. Whether the Cloud will eventually > replace most in-house server based systems is debatable and will require > much more security, management and backup features before it will be > completely trustable. > > Apple, via Steve Jobs, stopped the whole advance of plug-in technology which > was patching up browser functionality. It was not done for altruistic > reasons but to stop third party application from skipping the Apple toll > booth. But it did have a very important unexpected side-affect. It made > browser designers dependant on open standards, superfast browsers, gave them > the ability/responsibility for controlling security, that plug-in would > never allow and the dominance of HTML5 and CSS3. > > Whether Mark Zuckerberg, likes or dislikes HTML5 is not important as the > proprietary insecure plug-in world of the past is dead and dying...in fact > he is trying to buck the tide. How many users will allow another vulnerable > plug-in to install on their system so they can play a game or two? The other > option is to use a proprietary server language. It can be built very fast > but it does not take long before thousands of users will grind the whole > system to a stop and then huge farms of special servers have to > integrated...very expensive to own and very expensive to maintain. Those > type of application solutions, on so many levels are no longer workable. > > The new web world is more and more evolving into distributive open > standards, where data presentation is managed on the browsers and delegating > servers for only managing the data marshalling, gathering and storing. > > http://www.thesecuritypractice.com/the_security_practice/2012/11/in-defense- > of-html5-1.html > > Jim > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Dec 5 17:56:57 2012 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2012 03:56:57 +0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] =?utf-8?q?The_state_of_the_web?= Message-ID: <1354751817.897141432@f185.mail.ru> Hi Jim -- I meant *mobile* native apps, "desktop is dead" you know :) Updating mobile apps via centralized apps stores is a "breeze". FYI: identity management third-party tools/services are on the rise in mobile world: http://techcrunch.com/2012/12/04/with-the-rise-of-new-apps-okta-raises-25m-for-identity-management-platform/ The identity management issues should get satisfactory practical solutions real soon I hope. Thank you. -- Shamil ?????, 5 ??????? 2012, 12:21 ?? "Jim Lawrence" : > > > > >Those facts are definitely worthy of consideration and there will never be a > time when proprietary desktop programs will not be needed and its advantages > of raw speed are very necessary. > > OTOH Two factures should be considered when deploying any application larger > than an app style product. > > One, security to both your server and the client when running a > comprehensive web based application is carefully guarded through > state-of-art technology deployed by your modern browser. There are numerous > checks on any web site attempting to deploy what may be a suspect request. > The Sandboxing within the current browsers is very good and very current > (real-time) as it is being updated continuous. This is one area that you as > a programmer do not have to be completely responsible for even if your host > was hacked. > > Two, deployment and updates are virtually instantaneous. This functionality, > lends itself well to the concept of agile programming. An online > application/web site does not need to be completed before being launched. > Components, modules, updates and fixes can be continuously streamed to all > clients. There is no delay and few BE management issues to be concerned > about. > > A couple of year ago when putting in new system is one of the many "box" > stores, between customers, a casher noticed her register touch screen > browser image change, adding a few more buttons. A couple of modules had > been added at some central location and then had been deployed, within > minutes, to every store across North America, Europe and parts of Asia. > Impressive to say the least. (That can never be done with a desktop type > application...though a browser based management system can sure help.) > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov > Shamil > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 2:08 PM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The state of the web > > Hi Jim -- > > I have read this morning a poll of mobile apps devs companies > (http://slon.ru/appheroes/kakim-budet-rynok-prilozheniy-v-2013-godu-mnenie-r > azrabotchikov-858560.xhtml?(in Russian)) - 66% vs. 33% suppose that native > mobile apps will dominate over HTML5 within the next five years. (Yes, I > realize that the mobile apps developers can be not the best polling source > for "native mobile apps vs. HTM5 apps" question)... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > ???????, 4 ??????? 2012, 12:03 ?? "Jim Lawrence" : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >The web world is more than ever becoming "the" computer world. Most > > > development is now done on the web. Whether the Cloud will eventually > > > replace most in-house server based systems is debatable and will require > > > much more security, management and backup features before it will be > > > completely trustable. > > > > > > Apple, via Steve Jobs, stopped the whole advance of plug-in technology which > > > was patching up browser functionality. It was not done for altruistic > > > reasons but to stop third party application from skipping the Apple toll > > > booth. But it did have a very important unexpected side-affect. It made > > > browser designers dependant on open standards, superfast browsers, gave them > > > the ability/responsibility for controlling security, that plug-in would > > > never allow and the dominance of HTML5 and CSS3. > > > > > > Whether Mark Zuckerberg, likes or dislikes HTML5 is not important as the > > > proprietary insecure plug-in world of the past is dead and dying...in fact > > > he is trying to buck the tide. How many users will allow another vulnerable > > > plug-in to install on their system so they can play a game or two? The other > > > option is to use a proprietary server language. It can be built very fast > > > but it does not take long before thousands of users will grind the whole > > > system to a stop and then huge farms of special servers have to > > > integrated...very expensive to own and very expensive to maintain. Those > > > type of application solutions, on so many levels are no longer workable. > > > > > > The new web world is more and more evolving into distributive open > > > standards, where data presentation is managed on the browsers and delegating > > > servers for only managing the data marshalling, gathering and storing. > > > > > > >http://www.thesecuritypractice.com/the_security_practice/2012/11/in-defense > - > > > of-html5-1.html > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > dba-Tech mailing list > > > >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > > > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Dec 5 18:03:55 2012 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2012 04:03:55 +0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] =?utf-8?q?The_state_of_the_web?= Message-ID: <1354752235.894440551@f185.mail.ru> HI Jim -- <<< Windows8 is well behind the curve and not serious predictions could be made for the next couple of years while waiting to see how well the product is adopted. >>> Yes, but have a look here is an inexpensive yet rather powerful Win8 Phone coming for USD249: http://techcrunch.com/2012/12/05/nokia-unveils-latest-windows-phone-8-device-lumia-620-packs-3-8-inch-clearblack-display-nfc-costs-249-before-taxes/ while iPhone5 is planned to be sold here for ~USD1200 (35,000RUB) and WinPhone8 - Lumia 920 for ~USD700 Thank you. -- Shamil ?????, 5 ??????? 2012, 12:56 ?? "Jim Lawrence" : > > > > >This is a very interesting article. > > I see little difference between observations made in Russia than the ones > made here. > > Developer are still going to write most apps for iOS for the next little > while as iPhone users are still willing to pay more but the market is > rapidly changing. I suspect Android will get an ever larger share of the app > market and prices as the number of good products continue to increase. > Windows8 is well behind the curve and not serious predictions could be made > for the next couple of years while waiting to see how well the product is > adopted. > > I believe there is quite a difference between apps and full applications and > games. Apps lend themselves well towards specific platforms as they are > small dedicated programs. Re-writing for another OS is not a huge task. > OTOH, when a program is a comprehensive application or game, re-designing > for another platform is a major venture especially for a small developer > team in a Startup company. This is where browser based HTML5 application > come into their own. > > Our browsers are still not at the point where a serious application can > achieve the performance matching a proprietary piece of software but I > believe that it is a only a temporary obstacle. JIT browser compiling is > under development and we should expect stellar speeds in the near future. > > Being able to write-once and deploy everywhere, on all platforms should be > possible in the future. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov > Shamil > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 2:08 PM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The state of the web > > Hi Jim -- > > I have read this morning a poll of mobile apps devs companies > (http://slon.ru/appheroes/kakim-budet-rynok-prilozheniy-v-2013-godu-mnenie-r > azrabotchikov-858560.xhtml?(in Russian)) - 66% vs. 33% suppose that native > mobile apps will dominate over HTML5 within the next five years. (Yes, I > realize that the mobile apps developers can be not the best polling source > for "native mobile apps vs. HTM5 apps" question)... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > ???????, 4 ??????? 2012, 12:03 ?? "Jim Lawrence" : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >The web world is more than ever becoming "the" computer world. Most > > > development is now done on the web. Whether the Cloud will eventually > > > replace most in-house server based systems is debatable and will require > > > much more security, management and backup features before it will be > > > completely trustable. > > > > > > Apple, via Steve Jobs, stopped the whole advance of plug-in technology which > > > was patching up browser functionality. It was not done for altruistic > > > reasons but to stop third party application from skipping the Apple toll > > > booth. But it did have a very important unexpected side-affect. It made > > > browser designers dependant on open standards, superfast browsers, gave them > > > the ability/responsibility for controlling security, that plug-in would > > > never allow and the dominance of HTML5 and CSS3. > > > > > > Whether Mark Zuckerberg, likes or dislikes HTML5 is not important as the > > > proprietary insecure plug-in world of the past is dead and dying...in fact > > > he is trying to buck the tide. How many users will allow another vulnerable > > > plug-in to install on their system so they can play a game or two? The other > > > option is to use a proprietary server language. It can be built very fast > > > but it does not take long before thousands of users will grind the whole > > > system to a stop and then huge farms of special servers have to > > > integrated...very expensive to own and very expensive to maintain. Those > > > type of application solutions, on so many levels are no longer workable. > > > > > > The new web world is more and more evolving into distributive open > > > standards, where data presentation is managed on the browsers and delegating > > > servers for only managing the data marshalling, gathering and storing. > > > > > > >http://www.thesecuritypractice.com/the_security_practice/2012/11/in-defense > - > > > of-html5-1.html > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > dba-Tech mailing list > > > >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > > > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Dec 5 18:04:58 2012 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2012 04:04:58 +0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] =?utf-8?q?Text_to_speech?= Message-ID: <1354752298.680295231@f185.mail.ru> Thank you, Stuart, I will bookmark and I will read through that site. -- Shamil ???????, 6 ??????? 2012, 6:59 ?? "Stuart McLachlan" : > > > > >This site may be useful in helping you find something: > > >http://www.webbie.org.uk/Veli-Pekka/reviews_of_speech_synths.html > > On 5 Dec 2012 at 18:22, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > Hi All -- > > > > I'd like to make conversion of a set of transcript texts to speech. > > Here is the site > > > > http://www.text2speech.org/ > > > > which makes rather satisfactory conversion, still I'd like to: > > > > - have an option to define?pronunciation/aliasing?pronunciation?of some (key)words, e.g. the referred above site does result in 'C#" pronounced as 'c hash" and I'd like it to be pronounced as 'c sharp'; > > - have more "human being alike" voice - the 'American Male 2' voice from http://www.text2speech.org/?does sound not bad still it's sounding too artificial and I hope there could be more natural generated voice options available somewhere. > > > > Free solution preferred but I'd pay for it if it wouldn't be too expensive... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- Shamil? > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-Tech mailing list > > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Dec 5 18:10:13 2012 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2012 04:10:13 +0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] =?utf-8?q?The_state_of_the_web?= Message-ID: <1354752613.68238586@f249.mail.ru> But MS Access 2013 is going to become "LightSwitch killer", isn't it? I mean MS Access 2013 native support for web apps development, web apps running within SharePoint Server/Office 365(?) and natively handling MS SQL Server backends... http://blogs.office.com/b/microsoft-access/archive/2012/07/30/get-started-with-access-2013.aspx -- Shamil ?????, 5 ??????? 2012, 13:16 ?? "Jim Lawrence" : > > > > >LightSwitch looks like a great application allowing very quick development > but have not had an opportunity to use it myself. > > SilverLight is a browser plugin and though I have not used it, doubt that it > is allowed on all browsers and on all platforms? > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 11:33 PM > To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The state of the web > > Hi Jim > > So true. > > My latest small apps were created in LightSwitch and deployed to an external > host running at a ridicously low monthly charge even though it operates > ultra reliably. > I never communicated with the client other than by e-mail, and finally > posted the URLs to the apps to be launched with SilverLight on the client's > mix of Mac and Windows computers. > > Can't be easier, except if the new HTML5 client of LightSwitch had been used > but I'm not there yet. > > /gustav > > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Jim Lawrence > Sendt: 4. december 2012 21:04 > Til: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' > Emne: [dba-Tech] The state of the web > > The web world is more than ever becoming "the" computer world. Most > development is now done on the web. Whether the Cloud will eventually > replace most in-house server based systems is debatable and will require > much more security, management and backup features before it will be > completely trustable. > > Apple, via Steve Jobs, stopped the whole advance of plug-in technology which > was patching up browser functionality. It was not done for altruistic > reasons but to stop third party application from skipping the Apple toll > booth. But it did have a very important unexpected side-affect. It made > browser designers dependant on open standards, superfast browsers, gave them > the ability/responsibility for controlling security, that plug-in would > never allow and the dominance of HTML5 and CSS3. > > Whether Mark Zuckerberg, likes or dislikes HTML5 is not important as the > proprietary insecure plug-in world of the past is dead and dying...in fact > he is trying to buck the tide. How many users will allow another vulnerable > plug-in to install on their system so they can play a game or two? The other > option is to use a proprietary server language. It can be built very fast > but it does not take long before thousands of users will grind the whole > system to a stop and then huge farms of special servers have to > integrated...very expensive to own and very expensive to maintain. Those > type of application solutions, on so many levels are no longer workable. > > The new web world is more and more evolving into distributive open > standards, where data presentation is managed on the browsers and delegating > servers for only managing the data marshalling, gathering and storing. > > >http://www.thesecuritypractice.com/the_security_practice/2012/11/in-defense- > of-html5-1.html > > Jim > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Dec 5 20:03:38 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 18:03:38 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] The state of the web In-Reply-To: <50BFBE38.3405.233650D6@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <1354490484.536008316@f31.mail.ru>, <004901cdd2ba$cdd830e0$698892a0$@cactus.dk>, <50BFBE38.3405.233650D6@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <575700260A2540F19AB7E7992ACB77F5@creativesystemdesigns.com> I guess that is the end of it. SilverLight was an dead-end product. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2012 1:36 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The state of the web AFAIK, SIlverlight is a plugin for most major browsers on x86 based WIndows and Mac only. Not Opera Not Linux or Android Not ARM That's probably why it s used on less tha 0.5% of websites :-( -- Stuart On 5 Dec 2012 at 13:16, Jim Lawrence wrote: > LightSwitch looks like a great application allowing very quick development > but have not had an opportunity to use it myself. > > SilverLight is a browser plugin and though I have not used it, doubt that it > is allowed on all browsers and on all platforms? > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 11:33 PM > To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The state of the web > > Hi Jim > > So true. > > My latest small apps were created in LightSwitch and deployed to an external > host running at a ridicously low monthly charge even though it operates > ultra reliably. > I never communicated with the client other than by e-mail, and finally > posted the URLs to the apps to be launched with SilverLight on the client's > mix of Mac and Windows computers. > > Can't be easier, except if the new HTML5 client of LightSwitch had been used > but I'm not there yet. > > /gustav > > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Jim Lawrence > Sendt: 4. december 2012 21:04 > Til: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' > Emne: [dba-Tech] The state of the web > > The web world is more than ever becoming "the" computer world. Most > development is now done on the web. Whether the Cloud will eventually > replace most in-house server based systems is debatable and will require > much more security, management and backup features before it will be > completely trustable. > > Apple, via Steve Jobs, stopped the whole advance of plug-in technology which > was patching up browser functionality. It was not done for altruistic > reasons but to stop third party application from skipping the Apple toll > booth. But it did have a very important unexpected side-affect. It made > browser designers dependant on open standards, superfast browsers, gave them > the ability/responsibility for controlling security, that plug-in would > never allow and the dominance of HTML5 and CSS3. > > Whether Mark Zuckerberg, likes or dislikes HTML5 is not important as the > proprietary insecure plug-in world of the past is dead and dying...in fact > he is trying to buck the tide. How many users will allow another vulnerable > plug-in to install on their system so they can play a game or two? The other > option is to use a proprietary server language. It can be built very fast > but it does not take long before thousands of users will grind the whole > system to a stop and then huge farms of special servers have to > integrated...very expensive to own and very expensive to maintain. Those > type of application solutions, on so many levels are no longer workable. > > The new web world is more and more evolving into distributive open > standards, where data presentation is managed on the browsers and delegating > servers for only managing the data marshalling, gathering and storing. > > http://www.thesecuritypractice.com/the_security_practice/2012/11/in-defense- > of-html5-1.html > > Jim > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Dec 5 20:03:59 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 18:03:59 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] The state of the web In-Reply-To: <50BFC520.8139.23514D00@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <1354490484.536008316@f31.mail.ru>, <50BFBE38.3405.233650D6@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <50BFC520.8139.23514D00@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <014E01D53D3B4FB2BDEF097BBCCBA39A@creativesystemdesigns.com> Strike 3. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2012 2:05 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The state of the web In Microsoft's dreams :-) On 5 Dec 2012 at 13:43, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Isn't it a Flash replacement? > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2012 1:36 PM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The state of the web > > AFAIK, SIlverlight is a plugin for most major browsers on x86 based WIndows > and Mac only. > > Not Opera > Not Linux or Android > Not ARM > > That's probably why it s used on less tha 0.5% of websites :-( > > -- > Stuart > > On 5 Dec 2012 at 13:16, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > LightSwitch looks like a great application allowing very quick development > > but have not had an opportunity to use it myself. > > > > SilverLight is a browser plugin and though I have not used it, doubt that > it > > is allowed on all browsers and on all platforms? > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock > > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 11:33 PM > > To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' > > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The state of the web > > > > Hi Jim > > > > So true. > > > > My latest small apps were created in LightSwitch and deployed to an > external > > host running at a ridicously low monthly charge even though it operates > > ultra reliably. > > I never communicated with the client other than by e-mail, and finally > > posted the URLs to the apps to be launched with SilverLight on the > client's > > mix of Mac and Windows computers. > > > > Can't be easier, except if the new HTML5 client of LightSwitch had been > used > > but I'm not there yet. > > > > /gustav > > > > > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > > Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Jim Lawrence > > Sendt: 4. december 2012 21:04 > > Til: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' > > Emne: [dba-Tech] The state of the web > > > > The web world is more than ever becoming "the" computer world. Most > > development is now done on the web. Whether the Cloud will eventually > > replace most in-house server based systems is debatable and will require > > much more security, management and backup features before it will be > > completely trustable. > > > > Apple, via Steve Jobs, stopped the whole advance of plug-in technology > which > > was patching up browser functionality. It was not done for altruistic > > reasons but to stop third party application from skipping the Apple toll > > booth. But it did have a very important unexpected side-affect. It made > > browser designers dependant on open standards, superfast browsers, gave > them > > the ability/responsibility for controlling security, that plug-in would > > never allow and the dominance of HTML5 and CSS3. > > > > Whether Mark Zuckerberg, likes or dislikes HTML5 is not important as the > > proprietary insecure plug-in world of the past is dead and dying...in fact > > he is trying to buck the tide. How many users will allow another > vulnerable > > plug-in to install on their system so they can play a game or two? The > other > > option is to use a proprietary server language. It can be built very fast > > but it does not take long before thousands of users will grind the whole > > system to a stop and then huge farms of special servers have to > > integrated...very expensive to own and very expensive to maintain. Those > > type of application solutions, on so many levels are no longer workable. > > > > The new web world is more and more evolving into distributive open > > standards, where data presentation is managed on the browsers and > delegating > > servers for only managing the data marshalling, gathering and storing. > > > > > http://www.thesecuritypractice.com/the_security_practice/2012/11/in-defense- > > of-html5-1.html > > > > Jim > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-Tech mailing list > > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-Tech mailing list > > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Dec 5 20:18:07 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 18:18:07 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] The state of the web In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav: Hasn't Adobe released, free, a product designed to replace Flash and potentially SilverLight? http://www.geek.com/articles/news/adobe-release-their-own-html5-flash-replac ement-app-called-edge-2011081/ So are you saying that LightSwitch is also a dead product? Too bad but does this situation seem like a strong case for just adopting OSS HTML5/CSS3? Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2012 2:38 PM To: dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The state of the web Hi Jim Most frustrating part is that no 64-bit version will be made. It appears that - for LightSwitch - focus now is on the HTML5 client: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/vstudio/htmlclient /gustav >>> accessd at shaw.ca 05-12-12 22:16 >>> LightSwitch looks like a great application allowing very quick development but have not had an opportunity to use it myself. SilverLight is a browser plugin and though I have not used it, doubt that it is allowed on all browsers and on all platforms? Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 11:33 PM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The state of the web Hi Jim So true. My latest small apps were created in LightSwitch and deployed to an external host running at a ridicously low monthly charge even though it operates ultra reliably. I never communicated with the client other than by e-mail, and finally posted the URLs to the apps to be launched with SilverLight on the client's mix of Mac and Windows computers. Can't be easier, except if the new HTML5 client of LightSwitch had been used but I'm not there yet. /gustav -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Jim Lawrence Sendt: 4. december 2012 21:04 Til: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Emne: [dba-Tech] The state of the web The web world is more than ever becoming "the" computer world. Most development is now done on the web. Whether the Cloud will eventually replace most in-house server based systems is debatable and will require much more security, management and backup features before it will be completely trustable. Apple, via Steve Jobs, stopped the whole advance of plug-in technology which was patching up browser functionality. It was not done for altruistic reasons but to stop third party application from skipping the Apple toll booth. But it did have a very important unexpected side-affect. It made browser designers dependant on open standards, superfast browsers, gave them the ability/responsibility for controlling security, that plug-in would never allow and the dominance of HTML5 and CSS3. Whether Mark Zuckerberg, likes or dislikes HTML5 is not important as the proprietary insecure plug-in world of the past is dead and dying...in fact he is trying to buck the tide. How many users will allow another vulnerable plug-in to install on their system so they can play a game or two? The other option is to use a proprietary server language. It can be built very fast but it does not take long before thousands of users will grind the whole system to a stop and then huge farms of special servers have to integrated...very expensive to own and very expensive to maintain. Those type of application solutions, on so many levels are no longer workable. The new web world is more and more evolving into distributive open standards, where data presentation is managed on the browsers and delegating servers for only managing the data marshalling, gathering and storing. http://www.thesecuritypractice.com/the_security_practice/2012/11/in-defense- of-html5-1.html Jim _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Dec 5 20:39:56 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 18:39:56 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] The state of the web In-Reply-To: <85E5E1C5-E50A-48A1-8C62-3AEEC4186AE7@phulse.com> References: <1354490484.536008316@f31.mail.ru><83114589446B4C86A0F9978D47CAE156@creativesystemdesigns.com><004901cdd2ba$cdd830e0$698892a0$@cactus.dk> <85E5E1C5-E50A-48A1-8C62-3AEEC4186AE7@phulse.com> Message-ID: I think you are very correct. The following graph says it all and the main reason for Microsoft's sudden launch forward with a totally new environment, Win8. http://tinyurl.com/d4udbk2 It clearly shows that iOS and particularly Android, has wiped out Microsoft's decade of dominance, in which MS held about 90 to 95 percent of the personal computer market but in three short years, they lost over 50 percent of their market share. Whether this trend will continue unchallenged or whether MS will rise to the challenge is still a question. The next three years will say it all, success or oblivion. Periods like this are always best as there is always a lot of good innovation from all sectors of computing market. At this time, I think it is best for developers to keep away from making any firm commitments to any particular hardware and OS platforms and rather stick to Open Source and Open Standard products where at all possible. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian Andersen Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2012 2:47 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The state of the web Silverlight is a dead product. Microsoft is all about touting HTML5 these days and keeping Silverlight at arms length. Notice that they don't support Silverlight in Metro app development. Besides, it's not wise to use an application framework for internet applications/media that isn't cross platform or supported across all browsers and that's part of the reason it never amounted to much. Another major reason is because Microsoft holds no weight on the mobile platform and, if your video doesn't play on an apple iphone or samsung galaxy because you decided to use silverlight to stream it, well... you have yourself a problem. Hans On 2012-12-05, at 1:16 PM, "Jim Lawrence" wrote: > LightSwitch looks like a great application allowing very quick development > but have not had an opportunity to use it myself. > > SilverLight is a browser plugin and though I have not used it, doubt that it > is allowed on all browsers and on all platforms? > > Jim > From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Dec 5 21:15:35 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 19:15:35 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] The state of the web In-Reply-To: <1354751817.897141432@f185.mail.ru> References: <1354751817.897141432@f185.mail.ru> Message-ID: <34C84D2765B4423A8ED205F3C3DC6C91@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Shamil: The term Desktop, I guess only refers to PCs though how would you describe the native "window" of a mobile device? The difference between Browser and the Mobile Window seems to be blurring as Android is creating a browser OS for some of their new tablets. It would then be difficult (impossible?) to create a proprietary interface. A good Cloud management interface could not come soon enough. I would tend to look for an OSS alternative unless a new product could be proven superior... The link seems to emphasize the apparent Cloud Management product vacuum. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2012 3:57 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The state of the web Hi Jim -- I meant *mobile* native apps, "desktop is dead" you know :) Updating mobile apps via centralized apps stores is a "breeze". FYI: identity management third-party tools/services are on the rise in mobile world: http://techcrunch.com/2012/12/04/with-the-rise-of-new-apps-okta-raises-25m-f or-identity-management-platform/ The identity management issues should get satisfactory practical solutions real soon I hope. Thank you. -- Shamil ?????, 5 ??????? 2012, 12:21 ?? "Jim Lawrence" : > > > > >Those facts are definitely worthy of consideration and there will never be a > time when proprietary desktop programs will not be needed and its advantages > of raw speed are very necessary. > > OTOH Two factures should be considered when deploying any application larger > than an app style product. > > One, security to both your server and the client when running a > comprehensive web based application is carefully guarded through > state-of-art technology deployed by your modern browser. There are numerous > checks on any web site attempting to deploy what may be a suspect request. > The Sandboxing within the current browsers is very good and very current > (real-time) as it is being updated continuous. This is one area that you as > a programmer do not have to be completely responsible for even if your host > was hacked. > > Two, deployment and updates are virtually instantaneous. This functionality, > lends itself well to the concept of agile programming. An online > application/web site does not need to be completed before being launched. > Components, modules, updates and fixes can be continuously streamed to all > clients. There is no delay and few BE management issues to be concerned > about. > > A couple of year ago when putting in new system is one of the many "box" > stores, between customers, a casher noticed her register touch screen > browser image change, adding a few more buttons. A couple of modules had > been added at some central location and then had been deployed, within > minutes, to every store across North America, Europe and parts of Asia. > Impressive to say the least. (That can never be done with a desktop type > application...though a browser based management system can sure help.) > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov > Shamil > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 2:08 PM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The state of the web > > Hi Jim -- > > I have read this morning a poll of mobile apps devs companies > (http://slon.ru/appheroes/kakim-budet-rynok-prilozheniy-v-2013-godu-mnenie-r > azrabotchikov-858560.xhtml?(in Russian)) - 66% vs. 33% suppose that native > mobile apps will dominate over HTML5 within the next five years. (Yes, I > realize that the mobile apps developers can be not the best polling source > for "native mobile apps vs. HTM5 apps" question)... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > ???????, 4 ??????? 2012, 12:03 ?? "Jim Lawrence" : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >The web world is more than ever becoming "the" computer world. Most > > > development is now done on the web. Whether the Cloud will eventually > > > replace most in-house server based systems is debatable and will require > > > much more security, management and backup features before it will be > > > completely trustable. > > > > > > Apple, via Steve Jobs, stopped the whole advance of plug-in technology which > > > was patching up browser functionality. It was not done for altruistic > > > reasons but to stop third party application from skipping the Apple toll > > > booth. But it did have a very important unexpected side-affect. It made > > > browser designers dependant on open standards, superfast browsers, gave them > > > the ability/responsibility for controlling security, that plug-in would > > > never allow and the dominance of HTML5 and CSS3. > > > > > > Whether Mark Zuckerberg, likes or dislikes HTML5 is not important as the > > > proprietary insecure plug-in world of the past is dead and dying...in fact > > > he is trying to buck the tide. How many users will allow another vulnerable > > > plug-in to install on their system so they can play a game or two? The other > > > option is to use a proprietary server language. It can be built very fast > > > but it does not take long before thousands of users will grind the whole > > > system to a stop and then huge farms of special servers have to > > > integrated...very expensive to own and very expensive to maintain. Those > > > type of application solutions, on so many levels are no longer workable. > > > > > > The new web world is more and more evolving into distributive open > > > standards, where data presentation is managed on the browsers and delegating > > > servers for only managing the data marshalling, gathering and storing. > > > > > > >http://www.thesecuritypractice.com/the_security_practice/2012/11/in-defense > - > > > of-html5-1.html > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > dba-Tech mailing list > > > >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > > > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Dec 5 21:29:43 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 19:29:43 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] The state of the web In-Reply-To: <1354752613.68238586@f249.mail.ru> References: <1354752613.68238586@f249.mail.ru> Message-ID: <1104A1EEB8C4473D8CB60B0A5DAD369D@creativesystemdesigns.com> If Microsoft can make a good web/database product, that generates good HTML5/JQuery code it might be well worth considering to continue a TechNet subscription. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2012 4:10 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The state of the web But MS Access 2013 is going to become "LightSwitch killer", isn't it? I mean MS Access 2013 native support for web apps development, web apps running within SharePoint Server/Office 365(?) and natively handling MS SQL Server backends... http://blogs.office.com/b/microsoft-access/archive/2012/07/30/get-started-with-access-2013.aspx -- Shamil ?????, 5 ??????? 2012, 13:16 ?? "Jim Lawrence" : > > > > >LightSwitch looks like a great application allowing very quick development > but have not had an opportunity to use it myself. > > SilverLight is a browser plugin and though I have not used it, doubt that it > is allowed on all browsers and on all platforms? > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 11:33 PM > To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The state of the web > > Hi Jim > > So true. > > My latest small apps were created in LightSwitch and deployed to an external > host running at a ridicously low monthly charge even though it operates > ultra reliably. > I never communicated with the client other than by e-mail, and finally > posted the URLs to the apps to be launched with SilverLight on the client's > mix of Mac and Windows computers. > > Can't be easier, except if the new HTML5 client of LightSwitch had been used > but I'm not there yet. > > /gustav > > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Jim Lawrence > Sendt: 4. december 2012 21:04 > Til: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' > Emne: [dba-Tech] The state of the web > > The web world is more than ever becoming "the" computer world. Most > development is now done on the web. Whether the Cloud will eventually > replace most in-house server based systems is debatable and will require > much more security, management and backup features before it will be > completely trustable. > > Apple, via Steve Jobs, stopped the whole advance of plug-in technology which > was patching up browser functionality. It was not done for altruistic > reasons but to stop third party application from skipping the Apple toll > booth. But it did have a very important unexpected side-affect. It made > browser designers dependant on open standards, superfast browsers, gave them > the ability/responsibility for controlling security, that plug-in would > never allow and the dominance of HTML5 and CSS3. > > Whether Mark Zuckerberg, likes or dislikes HTML5 is not important as the > proprietary insecure plug-in world of the past is dead and dying...in fact > he is trying to buck the tide. How many users will allow another vulnerable > plug-in to install on their system so they can play a game or two? The other > option is to use a proprietary server language. It can be built very fast > but it does not take long before thousands of users will grind the whole > system to a stop and then huge farms of special servers have to > integrated...very expensive to own and very expensive to maintain. Those > type of application solutions, on so many levels are no longer workable. > > The new web world is more and more evolving into distributive open > standards, where data presentation is managed on the browsers and delegating > servers for only managing the data marshalling, gathering and storing. > > >http://www.thesecuritypractice.com/the_security_practice/2012/11/in-defense- > of-html5-1.html > > Jim > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From hans.andersen at phulse.com Thu Dec 6 00:12:42 2012 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 22:12:42 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] The state of the web In-Reply-To: References: <1354490484.536008316@f31.mail.ru><83114589446B4C86A0F9978D47CAE156@creativesystemdesigns.com><004901cdd2ba$cdd830e0$698892a0$@cactus.dk> <85E5E1C5-E50A-48A1-8C62-3AEEC4186AE7@phulse.com> Message-ID: In my opinion, I think Microsoft has yet farther to fall before they make a come back. I don't see anything particularly ground breaking coming from them, only them catching up with Android/iOS and trying to out-Apple Apple themselves in various ways (ie. Microsoft Store). But it doesn't really suit them. Just makes them look awkward. There are a few exceptions, of course. For instance, Microsoft is doing a fantastic job with their Xbox console in transforming it into a home entertainment centre, so kudos to them about that. But, I can't help but wonder whether the Xbox's successes are a result of being somewhat partitioned from all the other warring fiefdoms that exist at Microsoft (Windows, MS Office, etc) and probably a more hands-off approach from Steve Ballmer. I really think Microsoft just needs to get rid of Ballmer. He's an ineffective CEO in this new era and it shows. Also, from what I hear, the MS Office team has just got way too much say over everyone else. Hans On 2012-12-05, at 6:39 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > I think you are very correct. > > The following graph says it all and the main reason for Microsoft's sudden > launch forward with a totally new environment, Win8. > > http://tinyurl.com/d4udbk2 > > It clearly shows that iOS and particularly Android, has wiped out > Microsoft's decade of dominance, in which MS held about 90 to 95 percent of > the personal computer market but in three short years, they lost over 50 > percent of their market share. > > Whether this trend will continue unchallenged or whether MS will rise to the > challenge is still a question. The next three years will say it all, success > or oblivion. Periods like this are always best as there is always a lot of > good innovation from all sectors of computing market. > > At this time, I think it is best for developers to keep away from making any > firm commitments to any particular hardware and OS platforms and rather > stick to Open Source and Open Standard products where at all possible. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian > Andersen > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2012 2:47 PM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The state of the web > > > Silverlight is a dead product. Microsoft is all about touting HTML5 these > days and keeping Silverlight at arms length. Notice that they don't support > Silverlight in Metro app development. > > Besides, it's not wise to use an application framework for internet > applications/media that isn't cross platform or supported across all > browsers and that's part of the reason it never amounted to much. Another > major reason is because Microsoft holds no weight on the mobile platform > and, if your video doesn't play on an apple iphone or samsung galaxy because > you decided to use silverlight to stream it, well... you have yourself a > problem. > > Hans > > > > On 2012-12-05, at 1:16 PM, "Jim Lawrence" wrote: > >> LightSwitch looks like a great application allowing very quick development >> but have not had an opportunity to use it myself. >> >> SilverLight is a browser plugin and though I have not used it, doubt that > it >> is allowed on all browsers and on all platforms? >> >> Jim >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Thu Dec 6 03:37:19 2012 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2012 10:37:19 +0100 Subject: [dba-Tech] The state of the web Message-ID: <002401cdd395$49239930$db6acb90$@cactus.dk> Hi Shamil But that is SharePoint only. We haven't a single client running SharePoint, not even ourselves have established a test server (wouldn't know where to start and what for). /gustav -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Salakhetdinov Shamil Sendt: 6. december 2012 01:10 Til: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Emne: Re: [dba-Tech] The state of the web But MS Access 2013 is going to become "LightSwitch killer", isn't it? I mean MS Access 2013 native support for web apps development, web apps running within SharePoint Server/Office 365(?) and natively handling MS SQL Server backends... http://blogs.office.com/b/microsoft-access/archive/2012/07/30/get-started-with-access-2013.aspx -- Shamil ?????, 5 ??????? 2012, 13:16 ?? "Jim Lawrence" : > > > > >LightSwitch looks like a great application allowing very quick development > but have not had an opportunity to use it myself. > > SilverLight is a browser plugin and though I have not used it, doubt that it > is allowed on all browsers and on all platforms? > > Jim From gustav at cactus.dk Thu Dec 6 03:38:48 2012 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2012 10:38:48 +0100 Subject: [dba-Tech] The state of the web Message-ID: <002601cdd395$7e2f4f70$7a8dee50$@cactus.dk> Hi Jim That product is LightSwitch if you use the HTML5 client. /gustav -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Jim Lawrence Sendt: 6. december 2012 04:30 Til: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Emne: Re: [dba-Tech] The state of the web If Microsoft can make a good web/database product, that generates good HTML5/JQuery code it might be well worth considering to continue a TechNet subscription. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2012 4:10 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The state of the web But MS Access 2013 is going to become "LightSwitch killer", isn't it? I mean MS Access 2013 native support for web apps development, web apps running within SharePoint Server/Office 365(?) and natively handling MS SQL Server backends... http://blogs.office.com/b/microsoft-access/archive/2012/07/30/get-started-with-access-2013.aspx -- Shamil From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Dec 6 04:31:34 2012 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2012 14:31:34 +0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] =?utf-8?q?The_state_of_the_web?= Message-ID: <1354789894.944370283@f193.mail.ru> Hi Gustav -- MS Access 2013 Web apps should work with Office 365 also, I suppose (still to check). Yes, setting up a SharePoint Server is an issue here too. I'm planning to try http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=27417 and/or http://blog.tedpattison.net/Lists/Posts/Post.aspx?ID=22 Not sure I will.... Thank you. -- Shamil ???????, 6 ??????? 2012, 10:37 ?? "Gustav Brock" : > > > > >Hi Shamil > > But that is SharePoint only. We haven't a single client running SharePoint, not even ourselves have established a test server (wouldn't know where to start and what for). > > /gustav > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Salakhetdinov Shamil > Sendt: 6. december 2012 01:10 > Til: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Emne: Re: [dba-Tech] The state of the web > > But MS Access 2013 is going to become "LightSwitch killer", isn't it? > I mean MS Access 2013 native support for web apps development, web apps running within SharePoint Server/Office 365(?) and natively handling MS SQL Server backends... > > >http://blogs.office.com/b/microsoft-access/archive/2012/07/30/get-started-with-access-2013.aspx > > -- Shamil > > > ?????, 5 ??????? 2012, 13:16 ?? "Jim Lawrence" : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >LightSwitch looks like a great application allowing very quick development > > > but have not had an opportunity to use it myself. > > > > > > SilverLight is a browser plugin and though I have not used it, doubt that it > > > is allowed on all browsers and on all platforms? > > > > > > Jim > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Dec 6 05:10:50 2012 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2012 15:10:50 +0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] =?utf-8?q?The_state_of_the_web?= Message-ID: <1354792250.877356148@f82.mail.ru> Hi Hans and Jim -- Have you seen that stats: http://techcrunch.com/2012/12/04/analyst-just-25-developers-grabbed-50-of-app-revenues-on-u-s-app-store-google-play-last-month-earning-60m-between-them/ ? AFAIS mobile apps are still mainly game apps and (IMO) WinPhone 7.5/8 and Windows RT/Surface do still have good chances to become widely used in business apps. We will see. But 30% mobile market share in three-five years seems to be almost guaranteed to MS... And as you say "Microsoft is doing fantastic job with Xbox" so adapting that experience to MS mobile, using mobile devices together with Xbox should make MS positions even stronger?? Thank you. -- Shamil ?????, 5 ??????? 2012, 22:12 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen : > > > > > > In my opinion, I think Microsoft has yet farther to fall before they make a come back. I don't see anything particularly ground breaking coming from them, only them catching up with Android/iOS and trying to out-Apple Apple themselves in various ways (ie. Microsoft Store). But it doesn't really suit them. Just makes them look awkward. > > There are a few exceptions, of course. For instance, Microsoft is doing a fantastic job with their Xbox console in transforming it into a home entertainment centre, so kudos to them about that. But, I can't help but wonder whether the Xbox's successes are a result of being somewhat partitioned from all the other warring fiefdoms that exist at Microsoft (Windows, MS Office, etc) and probably a more hands-off approach from Steve Ballmer. > > I really think Microsoft just needs to get rid of Ballmer. He's an ineffective CEO in this new era and it shows. Also, from what I hear, the MS Office team has just got way too much say over everyone else. > > Hans > > > On 2012-12-05, at 6:39 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > I think you are very correct. > > > > The following graph says it all and the main reason for Microsoft's sudden > > launch forward with a totally new environment, Win8. > > > > http://tinyurl.com/d4udbk2 > > > > It clearly shows that iOS and particularly Android, has wiped out > > Microsoft's decade of dominance, in which MS held about 90 to 95 percent of > > the personal computer market but in three short years, they lost over 50 > > percent of their market share. > > > > Whether this trend will continue unchallenged or whether MS will rise to the > > challenge is still a question. The next three years will say it all, success > > or oblivion. Periods like this are always best as there is always a lot of > > good innovation from all sectors of computing market. > > > > At this time, I think it is best for developers to keep away from making any > > firm commitments to any particular hardware and OS platforms and rather > > stick to Open Source and Open Standard products where at all possible. > > > > Jim > > <<< skipped >>> > From gustav at cactus.dk Thu Dec 6 07:21:45 2012 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2012 14:21:45 +0100 Subject: [dba-Tech] The state of the web In-Reply-To: <1354789894.944370283@f193.mail.ru> References: <1354789894.944370283@f193.mail.ru> Message-ID: <007a01cdd3b4$a3c827b0$eb587710$@cactus.dk> Hi Shamil OK. But that doesn't add much ... none of our clients use Office 365. Some might perhaps someday but still ... /gustav -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Salakhetdinov Shamil Sendt: 6. december 2012 11:32 Til: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Emne: Re: [dba-Tech] The state of the web Hi Gustav -- MS Access 2013 Web apps should work with Office 365 also, I suppose (still to check). Yes, setting up a SharePoint Server is an issue here too. I'm planning to try http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=27417 and/or http://blog.tedpattison.net/Lists/Posts/Post.aspx?ID=22 Not sure I will.... Thank you. -- Shamil ???????, 6 ??????? 2012, 10:37 ?? "Gustav Brock" : > > > > >Hi Shamil > > But that is SharePoint only. We haven't a single client running SharePoint, not even ourselves have established a test server (wouldn't know where to start and what for). > > /gustav > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Salakhetdinov Shamil > Sendt: 6. december 2012 01:10 > Til: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Emne: Re: [dba-Tech] The state of the web > > But MS Access 2013 is going to become "LightSwitch killer", isn't it? > I mean MS Access 2013 native support for web apps development, web apps running within SharePoint Server/Office 365(?) and natively handling MS SQL Server backends... > > >http://blogs.office.com/b/microsoft-access/archive/2012/07/30/get-started-with-access-2013.aspx > > -- Shamil > > > ?????, 5 ??????? 2012, 13:16 ?? "Jim Lawrence" : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >LightSwitch looks like a great application allowing very quick development > > > but have not had an opportunity to use it myself. > > > > > > SilverLight is a browser plugin and though I have not used it, doubt that it > > > is allowed on all browsers and on all platforms? > > > > > > Jim > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From hans.andersen at phulse.com Thu Dec 6 08:20:53 2012 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2012 06:20:53 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] The state of the web In-Reply-To: <1354792250.877356148@f82.mail.ru> References: <1354792250.877356148@f82.mail.ru> Message-ID: <632380A8-DF79-4B8C-ABBA-A1E9E7B0974B@phulse.com> > But 30% mobile market share in three-five years seems to be almost guaranteed to MS... I'm just curious as to how 30% is almost guaranteed? Where does this number come from? The current market share is in the low single digits and not growing all that much. > And as you say "Microsoft is doing fantastic job with Xbox" so adapting that experience to MS mobile, using mobile devices together with Xbox should make MS positions even stronger? This is unlikely. The Xbox had a "killer app" in the form of Halo and also was (and still is) way ahead of the competition with Xbox Live. This is what helped them succeed from being the new kid on the block among established heavy weights and they are smartly building on top of that success with great new features. I don't see anything like that for the Windows Phone platform. Why would anyone adopt it? Everyone else is using iPhones and Android phones, who both seem to be quite satisfied with their platforms. They both have much larger app stores and higher profile apps. It needs to be something more than simply a few bells and whistles, like integrating it with the Xbox. It would be a nice touch, but the Xbox has only ever sold 70 million units in total (since 2005). Contrast that with 45 million iPhone 5's to be sold by the end of this year (and it was released this September). With numbers like that, you can see that its not really going to be a significant selling point for most consumers. To add to that, some people have a strong loyalty to Microsoft, such as yourself, but most do not. Most Windows users use Windows because that is what they are accustomed to it and because it is shipped on every computer by default anyways - not because that they feel strongly for the Microsoft brand nor because they make a conscious decision as a consumer that Windows is the best computer OS compared to the alternatives. In other words, they continue to succeed here by sheer force of monopoly. However, they are in a different position with Windows Phone, which is in such a weak position at the moment. They really need that killer app/feature/innovation to draw peoples attention and I'm not aware of anything. They need an "Angry Birds" exclusive to WP8 or something to that effect. Microsoft isn't going to grab a 30% market share simply by existing. - Hans On 2012-12-06, at 3:10 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi Hans and Jim -- > > Have you seen that stats: > > http://techcrunch.com/2012/12/04/analyst-just-25-developers-grabbed-50-of-app-revenues-on-u-s-app-store-google-play-last-month-earning-60m-between-them/ > > ? > > AFAIS mobile apps are still mainly game apps and (IMO) WinPhone 7.5/8 and Windows RT/Surface do still have good chances to become widely used in business apps. > We will see. But 30% mobile market share in three-five years seems to be almost guaranteed to MS... > And as you say "Microsoft is doing fantastic job with Xbox" so adapting that experience to MS mobile, using mobile devices together with Xbox should make MS positions even stronger? > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > ?????, 5 ??????? 2012, 22:12 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen : >> >> >> > > >> > > > >> >> > In my opinion, I think Microsoft has yet farther to fall before they make a come back. I don't see anything particularly ground breaking coming from them, only them catching up with Android/iOS and trying to out-Apple Apple themselves in various ways (ie. Microsoft Store). But it doesn't really suit them. Just makes them look awkward. >> > >> > There are a few exceptions, of course. For instance, Microsoft is doing a fantastic job with their Xbox console in transforming it into a home entertainment centre, so kudos to them about that. But, I can't help but wonder whether the Xbox's successes are a result of being somewhat partitioned from all the other warring fiefdoms that exist at Microsoft (Windows, MS Office, etc) and probably a more hands-off approach from Steve Ballmer. >> > >> > I really think Microsoft just needs to get rid of Ballmer. He's an ineffective CEO in this new era and it shows. Also, from what I hear, the MS Office team has just got way too much say over everyone else. >> > >> > Hans >> > >> > >> > On 2012-12-05, at 6:39 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> > >> >> I think you are very correct. >> >> >> >> The following graph says it all and the main reason for Microsoft's sudden >> >> launch forward with a totally new environment, Win8. >> >> >> >> http://tinyurl.com/d4udbk2 >> >> >> >> It clearly shows that iOS and particularly Android, has wiped out >> >> Microsoft's decade of dominance, in which MS held about 90 to 95 percent of >> >> the personal computer market but in three short years, they lost over 50 >> >> percent of their market share. >> >> >> >> Whether this trend will continue unchallenged or whether MS will rise to the >> >> challenge is still a question. The next three years will say it all, success >> >> or oblivion. Periods like this are always best as there is always a lot of >> >> good innovation from all sectors of computing market. >> >> >> >> At this time, I think it is best for developers to keep away from making any >> >> firm commitments to any particular hardware and OS platforms and rather >> >> stick to Open Source and Open Standard products where at all possible. >> >> >> >> Jim >> >> <<< skipped >>> >> > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Thu Dec 6 09:19:48 2012 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2012 10:19:48 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Virus coming Message-ID: I've just recently learned of a virus that was described by CNN as the most destructive ever seen. It poses as a Hallark e-postcard and the subject of the email is either Postcard or Postcard from Hallmark. The virus destroys the zero sector of your main hard disk. McAfee discovered it yesterday. -- Arthur Cell: 647.710.1314 Prediction is difficult, especially of the future. -- Niels Bohr From jon.tydda at lonza.com Thu Dec 6 09:23:13 2012 From: jon.tydda at lonza.com (Tydda Jon - Slough) Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2012 16:23:13 +0100 Subject: [dba-Tech] Virus coming In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: To be honest, anyone that opens an "e-card from Hallmark" in this day and age deserves everything they get :-) Jon -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: 06 December 2012 15:20 To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: [dba-Tech] Virus coming I've just recently learned of a virus that was described by CNN as the most destructive ever seen. It poses as a Hallark e-postcard and the subject of the email is either Postcard or Postcard from Hallmark. The virus destroys the zero sector of your main hard disk. McAfee discovered it yesterday. -- Arthur Cell: 647.710.1314 Prediction is difficult, especially of the future. -- Niels Bohr _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com This communication and its attachments, if any, may contain confidential and privileged information the use of which by other persons or entities than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you receive this transmission in error, please contact the sender immediately and delete the material from your system. From djkr at msn.com Thu Dec 6 09:23:52 2012 From: djkr at msn.com (DJK (John) Robinson) Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2012 15:23:52 +0000 Subject: [dba-Tech] Virus coming In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I hesitate to contradict Niels Bohr, but prediction is dead easy, at least where the recurrence of old virus hoaxes is concerned ... John :-) -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: 06 December 2012 15:20 To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: [dba-Tech] Virus coming I've just recently learned of a virus that was described by CNN as the most destructive ever seen. It poses as a Hallark e-postcard and the subject of the email is either Postcard or Postcard from Hallmark. The virus destroys the zero sector of your main hard disk. McAfee discovered it yesterday. -- Arthur Cell: 647.710.1314 Prediction is difficult, especially of the future. -- Niels Bohr _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Dec 6 10:44:20 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2012 08:44:20 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] Virus coming In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2D8F9F288C7642A98DB47925F6C5CBC1@creativesystemdesigns.com> I tend to agree with you. It will just get rid of a few thousand newbies. There have been many virus over the years that have clobbered the zero/boot track but their popularity waned as the new breed of malware just wants to take over you machine or monitor your activity, in other wards their goal is financial. Many years ago, I had a Norton's boot disk that resolved that problem by rewriting the boot track with a stored backup. There is also a Microsoft tool called Bootrec. The only thing you would need is a boot disk/DVD/USB. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tydda Jon - Slough Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2012 7:23 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Virus coming To be honest, anyone that opens an "e-card from Hallmark" in this day and age deserves everything they get :-) Jon -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: 06 December 2012 15:20 To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: [dba-Tech] Virus coming I've just recently learned of a virus that was described by CNN as the most destructive ever seen. It poses as a Hallark e-postcard and the subject of the email is either Postcard or Postcard from Hallmark. The virus destroys the zero sector of your main hard disk. McAfee discovered it yesterday. -- Arthur Cell: 647.710.1314 Prediction is difficult, especially of the future. -- Niels Bohr _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com This communication and its attachments, if any, may contain confidential and privileged information the use of which by other persons or entities than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you receive this transmission in error, please contact the sender immediately and delete the material from your system. _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Dec 6 11:18:58 2012 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2012 21:18:58 +0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] =?utf-8?q?The_state_of_the_web?= Message-ID: <1354814338.415999234@f86.mail.ru> Hi Hans -- <<< Microsoft isn't going to grab a 30% market share simply by existing. >>> That's?Gartner: Windows 8 Tablets To Hold 39% Market Share In Businesses By 2016 http://microsoft-news.com/gartner-windows-8-tablets-to-hold-39-market-share-in-businesses-by-2016/ Let's hope we will have opportunity to refer to this discussion thread on year 2016 eve. Till then, Yours, Shamil :) ???????, 6 ??????? 2012, 6:20 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen : > > But 30% mobile market share in three-five years seems to be almost guaranteed to MS... > > I'm just curious as to how 30% is almost guaranteed? Where does this number come from? The current market share is in the low single digits and not growing all that much. > > > And as you say "Microsoft is doing fantastic job with Xbox" so adapting that experience to MS mobile, using mobile devices together with Xbox should make MS positions even stronger? > > This is unlikely. The Xbox had a "killer app" in the form of Halo and also was (and still is) way ahead of the competition with Xbox Live. This is what helped them succeed from being the new kid on the block among established heavy weights and they are smartly building on top of that success with great new features. > > I don't see anything like that for the Windows Phone platform. Why would anyone adopt it? Everyone else is using iPhones and Android phones, who both seem to be quite satisfied with their platforms. They both have much larger app stores and higher profile apps. It needs to be something more than simply a few bells and whistles, like integrating it with the Xbox. It would be a nice touch, but the Xbox has only ever sold 70 million units in total (since 2005). Contrast that with 45 million iPhone 5's to be sold by the end of this year (and it was released this September). With numbers like that, you can see that its not really going to be a significant selling point for most consumers. > > To add to that, some people have a strong loyalty to Microsoft, such as yourself, but most do not. Most Windows users use Windows because that is what they are accustomed to it and because it is shipped on every computer by default anyways - not because that they feel strongly for the Microsoft brand nor because they make a conscious decision as a consumer that Windows is the best computer OS compared to the alternatives. In other words, they continue to succeed here by sheer force of monopoly. > > However, they are in a different position with Windows Phone, which is in such a weak position at the moment. They really need that killer app/feature/innovation to draw peoples attention and I'm not aware of anything. They need an "Angry Birds" exclusive to WP8 or something to that effect. > > Microsoft isn't going to grab a 30% market share simply by existing. > > - Hans ><<< skipped >>> > From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Dec 6 12:04:11 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2012 10:04:11 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] The state of the web In-Reply-To: <1354792250.877356148@f82.mail.ru> References: <1354792250.877356148@f82.mail.ru> Message-ID: Hi Shamil: Games are big business. Games make more money than the entire entertainment industry. (...but I never play games myself; too much like work. ;-)) I like optimistic people; you are very optimistic...but as much as I like Microsoft...made good money from them for the 30 years, they are not going to capture 30 percent of the market. If they manage to hold on to 30 percent of their existing computing market, in three to five years I will be pleased. The link below says it all. iOS holds a massive 20 percent of the mobile market and Android(Linux) holds another 65 percent. The trend is for growth with both these systems and unless Microsoft can supply a super set of killer apps and technologies that direction is not going to change. http://tinyurl.com/d43k9vd Aside: My daughter was working with a team of developers that put a small kids game app out for Christmas, for use on the iPhone/iPad market. It cost an estimated 40K(?) with team of 5, to get the product to market and if it does well, it will be ported to the Android. Any support will be greatly appreciated. :-) https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/paint-my-cat/id578516291?ls=1&mt=8 The below link/image shows how the original concept, layout and functionality was created (on the left, in boiler-plated HTML5 code) and then shows the finished product (on the right), using compiled native iOS and the enhanced 3D graphics. http://tinyurl.com/bkuc974 Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2012 3:11 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The state of the web Hi Hans and Jim -- Have you seen that stats: http://techcrunch.com/2012/12/04/analyst-just-25-developers-grabbed-50-of-ap p-revenues-on-u-s-app-store-google-play-last-month-earning-60m-between-them/ ? AFAIS mobile apps are still mainly game apps and (IMO) WinPhone 7.5/8 and Windows RT/Surface do still have good chances to become widely used in business apps. We will see. But 30% mobile market share in three-five years seems to be almost guaranteed to MS... And as you say "Microsoft is doing fantastic job with Xbox" so adapting that experience to MS mobile, using mobile devices together with Xbox should make MS positions even stronger?? Thank you. -- Shamil ?????, 5 ??????? 2012, 22:12 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen : > > > > > > In my opinion, I think Microsoft has yet farther to fall before they make a come back. I don't see anything particularly ground breaking coming from them, only them catching up with Android/iOS and trying to out-Apple Apple themselves in various ways (ie. Microsoft Store). But it doesn't really suit them. Just makes them look awkward. > > There are a few exceptions, of course. For instance, Microsoft is doing a fantastic job with their Xbox console in transforming it into a home entertainment centre, so kudos to them about that. But, I can't help but wonder whether the Xbox's successes are a result of being somewhat partitioned from all the other warring fiefdoms that exist at Microsoft (Windows, MS Office, etc) and probably a more hands-off approach from Steve Ballmer. > > I really think Microsoft just needs to get rid of Ballmer. He's an ineffective CEO in this new era and it shows. Also, from what I hear, the MS Office team has just got way too much say over everyone else. > > Hans > > > On 2012-12-05, at 6:39 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > I think you are very correct. > > > > The following graph says it all and the main reason for Microsoft's sudden > > launch forward with a totally new environment, Win8. > > > > http://tinyurl.com/d4udbk2 > > > > It clearly shows that iOS and particularly Android, has wiped out > > Microsoft's decade of dominance, in which MS held about 90 to 95 percent of > > the personal computer market but in three short years, they lost over 50 > > percent of their market share. > > > > Whether this trend will continue unchallenged or whether MS will rise to the > > challenge is still a question. The next three years will say it all, success > > or oblivion. Periods like this are always best as there is always a lot of > > good innovation from all sectors of computing market. > > > > At this time, I think it is best for developers to keep away from making any > > firm commitments to any particular hardware and OS platforms and rather > > stick to Open Source and Open Standard products where at all possible. > > > > Jim > > <<< skipped >>> > _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Dec 6 12:21:05 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2012 10:21:05 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] The state of the web In-Reply-To: <1354814338.415999234@f86.mail.ru> References: <1354814338.415999234@f86.mail.ru> Message-ID: <256350DC38C544DB92E0BEEB20B8E24D@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Shamil: Considering that Microsoft once held almost 95 percent of the computing market and now holds about 30 percent, I would not think it impossible for them to gain back another 9 percent. OTOH, the market is much larger, with a growth of over 600 percent since 2005 so that 10 percent, now signifies many more users (6x). Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2012 9:19 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The state of the web Hi Hans -- <<< Microsoft isn't going to grab a 30% market share simply by existing. >>> That's?Gartner: Windows 8 Tablets To Hold 39% Market Share In Businesses By 2016 http://microsoft-news.com/gartner-windows-8-tablets-to-hold-39-market-share- in-businesses-by-2016/ Let's hope we will have opportunity to refer to this discussion thread on year 2016 eve. Till then, Yours, Shamil :) ???????, 6 ??????? 2012, 6:20 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen : > > But 30% mobile market share in three-five years seems to be almost guaranteed to MS... > > I'm just curious as to how 30% is almost guaranteed? Where does this number come from? The current market share is in the low single digits and not growing all that much. > > > And as you say "Microsoft is doing fantastic job with Xbox" so adapting that experience to MS mobile, using mobile devices together with Xbox should make MS positions even stronger? > > This is unlikely. The Xbox had a "killer app" in the form of Halo and also was (and still is) way ahead of the competition with Xbox Live. This is what helped them succeed from being the new kid on the block among established heavy weights and they are smartly building on top of that success with great new features. > > I don't see anything like that for the Windows Phone platform. Why would anyone adopt it? Everyone else is using iPhones and Android phones, who both seem to be quite satisfied with their platforms. They both have much larger app stores and higher profile apps. It needs to be something more than simply a few bells and whistles, like integrating it with the Xbox. It would be a nice touch, but the Xbox has only ever sold 70 million units in total (since 2005). Contrast that with 45 million iPhone 5's to be sold by the end of this year (and it was released this September). With numbers like that, you can see that its not really going to be a significant selling point for most consumers. > > To add to that, some people have a strong loyalty to Microsoft, such as yourself, but most do not. Most Windows users use Windows because that is what they are accustomed to it and because it is shipped on every computer by default anyways - not because that they feel strongly for the Microsoft brand nor because they make a conscious decision as a consumer that Windows is the best computer OS compared to the alternatives. In other words, they continue to succeed here by sheer force of monopoly. > > However, they are in a different position with Windows Phone, which is in such a weak position at the moment. They really need that killer app/feature/innovation to draw peoples attention and I'm not aware of anything. They need an "Angry Birds" exclusive to WP8 or something to that effect. > > Microsoft isn't going to grab a 30% market share simply by existing. > > - Hans ><<< skipped >>> > _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From hans.andersen at phulse.com Thu Dec 6 14:05:21 2012 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2012 12:05:21 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] The state of the web In-Reply-To: <1354814338.415999234@f86.mail.ru> References: <1354814338.415999234@f86.mail.ru> Message-ID: Hi Shamil, I was referring to mobile as Windows Phone, not tablets. If we are talking about tablet market share, I wouldn't place a bet on anything by 2016 for the mere fact that the PC world is starting to blur the lines between the traditional laptop and a tablet. In fact, the article you linked to even made specific reference to "convertibles". So, by the time 2016 comes around, it will be a matter of how you interpret the numbers. It's a clever strategy of trying to shoehorn your way into relevance. Whether it will be a success, however, is pure speculation. But, if we are talking about pure tablets - a product with the characteristics of current iPads and Android tablets (a mobile computer that is primarily operated by touching the screen) - I would feel more confident in saying that I doubt Microsoft will be able to capture 30% of that market share by 2016. Not unless Windows 8 is a runaway success (which I don't think it will be) and consumers start wanting "tablets" rather than simply wanting iPads, as is currently the case. Of course, Gartner has a very checkered past in making future predictions. After all, they once predicted 3 years ago that by 2012, the top 4 mobile phone platforms would be Android, Symbian Blackberry and then Windows Mobile. They didn't think that the iPhone would continue to grow in market share at the pace that it has. They also said Nokia would retain a 40% market share of smartphones (oops). But, I suppose even a broken clock is right twice a day. :) At the end of the day, it is fun to speculate, but none of us really know whats going to happen 3 years from now. - Hans On 2012-12-06, at 9:18 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi Hans -- > > <<< > Microsoft isn't going to grab a 30% market share simply by existing. >>>> > > That's Gartner: Windows 8 Tablets To Hold 39% Market Share In Businesses By 2016 > > http://microsoft-news.com/gartner-windows-8-tablets-to-hold-39-market-share-in-businesses-by-2016/ > > Let's hope we will have opportunity to refer to this discussion thread on year 2016 eve. > > Till then, > > Yours, > > Shamil :) > > > ???????, 6 ??????? 2012, 6:20 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen : > >> >> But 30% mobile market share in three-five years seems to be almost guaranteed to MS... >> >> > I'm just curious as to how 30% is almost guaranteed? Where does this number come from? The current market share is in the low single digits and not growing all that much. >> >> >> And as you say "Microsoft is doing fantastic job with Xbox" so adapting that experience to MS mobile, using mobile devices together with Xbox should make MS positions even stronger? >> >> > This is unlikely. The Xbox had a "killer app" in the form of Halo and also was (and still is) way ahead of the competition with Xbox Live. This is what helped them succeed from being the new kid on the block among established heavy weights and they are smartly building on top of that success with great new features. >> >> > I don't see anything like that for the Windows Phone platform. Why would anyone adopt it? Everyone else is using iPhones and Android phones, who both seem to be quite satisfied with their platforms. They both have much larger app stores and higher profile apps. It needs to be something more than simply a few bells and whistles, like integrating it with the Xbox. It would be a nice touch, but the Xbox has only ever sold 70 million units in total (since 2005). Contrast that with 45 million iPhone 5's to be sold by the end of this year (and it was released this September). With numbers like that, you can see that its not really going to be a significant selling point for most consumers. >> >> > To add to that, some people have a strong loyalty to Microsoft, such as yourself, but most do not. Most Windows users use Windows because that is what they are accustomed to it and because it is shipped on every computer by default anyways - not because that they feel strongly for the Microsoft brand nor because they make a conscious decision as a consumer that Windows is the best computer OS compared to the alternatives. In other words, they continue to succeed here by sheer force of monopoly. >> >> > However, they are in a different position with Windows Phone, which is in such a weak position at the moment. They really need that killer app/feature/innovation to draw peoples attention and I'm not aware of anything. They need an "Angry Birds" exclusive to WP8 or something to that effect. >> >> > Microsoft isn't going to grab a 30% market share simply by existing. >> >> > - Hans >> <<< skipped >>> > >> > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Dec 6 14:36:57 2012 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2012 00:36:57 +0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] =?utf-8?q?The_state_of_the_web?= Message-ID: <1354826217.696893727@f181.mail.ru> Hi Hans -- <<< But, I suppose even a broken clock is right twice a day. :) >>> Correct. :) <<< Of course, Gartner has a very checkered past in making future predictions. After all, they once predicted 3 years ago that by 2012, the top 4 mobile phone platforms would be Android, Symbian Blackberry and then Windows Mobile. They didn't think that the iPhone would continue to grow in market share at the pace that it has. They also said Nokia would retain a 40% market share of smartphones (oops). >>> OOPS, I didn't know that - next time I will use more reliable "speculations source"... <<< I was referring to mobile as Windows Phone, not tablets. >>> I meant both, tablets and smartphones, let's for MS Windows set that as MS Windows Phones 7.5, 8, ... and Windows RT but not a "transformer MS Windows tablet" able to run full scale Windows 8.... <<< At the end of the day, it is fun to speculate, but none of us really know whats going to happen 3 years from now. >>> Yes :) - ?let's hope we will have opportunity to get back to that thread discussion in three years on year 2016 Eve to see what will happen then on mobile market... Thank you. -- Shamil ???????, 6 ??????? 2012, 12:05 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen : > > > > >Hi Shamil, > > I was referring to mobile as Windows Phone, not tablets. > > If we are talking about tablet market share, I wouldn't place a bet on anything by 2016 for the mere fact that the PC world is starting to blur the lines between the traditional laptop and a tablet. In fact, the article you linked to even made specific reference to "convertibles". So, by the time 2016 comes around, it will be a matter of how you interpret the numbers. It's a clever strategy of trying to shoehorn your way into relevance. > > Whether it will be a success, however, is pure speculation. But, if we are talking about pure tablets - a product with the characteristics of current iPads and Android tablets (a mobile computer that is primarily operated by touching the screen) - I would feel more confident in saying that I doubt Microsoft will be able to capture 30% of that market share by 2016. Not unless Windows 8 is a runaway success (which I don't think it will be) and consumers start wanting "tablets" rather than simply wanting iPads, as is currently the case. > > Of course, Gartner has a very checkered past in making future predictions. After all, they once predicted 3 years ago that by 2012, the top 4 mobile phone platforms would be Android, Symbian Blackberry and then Windows Mobile. They didn't think that the iPhone would continue to grow in market share at the pace that it has. They also said Nokia would retain a 40% market share of smartphones (oops). > > But, I suppose even a broken clock is right twice a day. :) > > At the end of the day, it is fun to speculate, but none of us really know whats going to happen 3 years from now. > > - Hans > > > > On 2012-12-06, at 9:18 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > Hi Hans -- > > > > <<< > > Microsoft isn't going to grab a 30% market share simply by existing. > >>>> > > > > That's Gartner: Windows 8 Tablets To Hold 39% Market Share In Businesses By 2016 > > > > http://microsoft-news.com/gartner-windows-8-tablets-to-hold-39-market-share-in-businesses-by-2016/ > > > > Let's hope we will have opportunity to refer to this discussion thread on year 2016 eve. > > > > Till then, > > > > Yours, > > > > Shamil :) > > > > > > ???????, 6 ??????? 2012, 6:20 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen : > > > >> > >> But 30% mobile market share in three-five years seems to be almost guaranteed to MS... > >> > >> > > I'm just curious as to how 30% is almost guaranteed? Where does this number come from? The current market share is in the low single digits and not growing all that much. > >> > >> > >> And as you say "Microsoft is doing fantastic job with Xbox" so adapting that experience to MS mobile, using mobile devices together with Xbox should make MS positions even stronger? > >> > >> > > This is unlikely. The Xbox had a "killer app" in the form of Halo and also was (and still is) way ahead of the competition with Xbox Live. This is what helped them succeed from being the new kid on the block among established heavy weights and they are smartly building on top of that success with great new features. > >> > >> > > I don't see anything like that for the Windows Phone platform. Why would anyone adopt it? Everyone else is using iPhones and Android phones, who both seem to be quite satisfied with their platforms. They both have much larger app stores and higher profile apps. It needs to be something more than simply a few bells and whistles, like integrating it with the Xbox. It would be a nice touch, but the Xbox has only ever sold 70 million units in total (since 2005). Contrast that with 45 million iPhone 5's to be sold by the end of this year (and it was released this September). With numbers like that, you can see that its not really going to be a significant selling point for most consumers. > >> > >> > > To add to that, some people have a strong loyalty to Microsoft, such as yourself, but most do not. Most Windows users use Windows because that is what they are accustomed to it and because it is shipped on every computer by default anyways - not because that they feel strongly for the Microsoft brand nor because they make a conscious decision as a consumer that Windows is the best computer OS compared to the alternatives. In other words, they continue to succeed here by sheer force of monopoly. > >> > >> > > However, they are in a different position with Windows Phone, which is in such a weak position at the moment. They really need that killer app/feature/innovation to draw peoples attention and I'm not aware of anything. They need an "Angry Birds" exclusive to WP8 or something to that effect. > >> > >> > > Microsoft isn't going to grab a 30% market share simply by existing. > >> > >> > > - Hans > >> <<< skipped >>> > > > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-Tech mailing list > > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Dec 6 14:54:40 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2012 12:54:40 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] The state of the web In-Reply-To: References: <1354814338.415999234@f86.mail.ru> Message-ID: <4191A6CC5A434533A34BAD437F05AE80@creativesystemdesigns.com> All: Just a note. The previously linked graph is correct but also deceptive. Between the years of 2005 and 2012 the computer market expanded by approximately 600 percent or increased by six times. But the graph results are shown in percentage of the market. If you take this thought all the way out and given that Microsoft held more than 90 percent of the market in 2005 and now holds 30 percent in 2012. Translating this to the actual number of units sold, for example given 1000 units sold at 90 percent becomes 2000 units sold at 30 percent of the market share. In other words, MS has double their unit sales since 2005 even though their percentage of the current market has reduced by over 60 percent. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian Andersen Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2012 12:05 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The state of the web Hi Shamil, I was referring to mobile as Windows Phone, not tablets. If we are talking about tablet market share, I wouldn't place a bet on anything by 2016 for the mere fact that the PC world is starting to blur the lines between the traditional laptop and a tablet. In fact, the article you linked to even made specific reference to "convertibles". So, by the time 2016 comes around, it will be a matter of how you interpret the numbers. It's a clever strategy of trying to shoehorn your way into relevance. Whether it will be a success, however, is pure speculation. But, if we are talking about pure tablets - a product with the characteristics of current iPads and Android tablets (a mobile computer that is primarily operated by touching the screen) - I would feel more confident in saying that I doubt Microsoft will be able to capture 30% of that market share by 2016. Not unless Windows 8 is a runaway success (which I don't think it will be) and consumers start wanting "tablets" rather than simply wanting iPads, as is currently the case. Of course, Gartner has a very checkered past in making future predictions. After all, they once predicted 3 years ago that by 2012, the top 4 mobile phone platforms would be Android, Symbian Blackberry and then Windows Mobile. They didn't think that the iPhone would continue to grow in market share at the pace that it has. They also said Nokia would retain a 40% market share of smartphones (oops). But, I suppose even a broken clock is right twice a day. :) At the end of the day, it is fun to speculate, but none of us really know whats going to happen 3 years from now. - Hans On 2012-12-06, at 9:18 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi Hans -- > > <<< > Microsoft isn't going to grab a 30% market share simply by existing. >>>> > > That's Gartner: Windows 8 Tablets To Hold 39% Market Share In Businesses By 2016 > > http://microsoft-news.com/gartner-windows-8-tablets-to-hold-39-market-share- in-businesses-by-2016/ > > Let's hope we will have opportunity to refer to this discussion thread on year 2016 eve. > > Till then, > > Yours, > > Shamil :) > > > ???????, 6 ??????? 2012, 6:20 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen : > >> >> But 30% mobile market share in three-five years seems to be almost guaranteed to MS... >> >> > I'm just curious as to how 30% is almost guaranteed? Where does this number come from? The current market share is in the low single digits and not growing all that much. >> >> >> And as you say "Microsoft is doing fantastic job with Xbox" so adapting that experience to MS mobile, using mobile devices together with Xbox should make MS positions even stronger? >> >> > This is unlikely. The Xbox had a "killer app" in the form of Halo and also was (and still is) way ahead of the competition with Xbox Live. This is what helped them succeed from being the new kid on the block among established heavy weights and they are smartly building on top of that success with great new features. >> >> > I don't see anything like that for the Windows Phone platform. Why would anyone adopt it? Everyone else is using iPhones and Android phones, who both seem to be quite satisfied with their platforms. They both have much larger app stores and higher profile apps. It needs to be something more than simply a few bells and whistles, like integrating it with the Xbox. It would be a nice touch, but the Xbox has only ever sold 70 million units in total (since 2005). Contrast that with 45 million iPhone 5's to be sold by the end of this year (and it was released this September). With numbers like that, you can see that its not really going to be a significant selling point for most consumers. >> >> > To add to that, some people have a strong loyalty to Microsoft, such as yourself, but most do not. Most Windows users use Windows because that is what they are accustomed to it and because it is shipped on every computer by default anyways - not because that they feel strongly for the Microsoft brand nor because they make a conscious decision as a consumer that Windows is the best computer OS compared to the alternatives. In other words, they continue to succeed here by sheer force of monopoly. >> >> > However, they are in a different position with Windows Phone, which is in such a weak position at the moment. They really need that killer app/feature/innovation to draw peoples attention and I'm not aware of anything. They need an "Angry Birds" exclusive to WP8 or something to that effect. >> >> > Microsoft isn't going to grab a 30% market share simply by existing. >> >> > - Hans >> <<< skipped >>> > >> > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Dec 6 15:06:14 2012 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2012 01:06:14 +0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] =?utf-8?q?Win8=2C_MS_SQL_2012=2C_MS_Office_2013=2C_VS_?= =?utf-8?q?2012_-_Develper=27s_Hyper-V_VM=2E=2E=2E?= Message-ID: <1354827974.617810028@f272.mail.ru> Hi All -- I have got the subj? Win8, MS SQL 2012, MS Office 2013, VS 2012 - Developer's Hyper-V VM... setup today (the whole setup process happens relatively slow as I have to work for money on another PC) . The subj VM and listed in the subj installed dev tools run well on Asus V76Vz WIn8 Prof notebook. The size of VM's virtual disk is currently 36GB. I have intentionally selected expandable virtual disk to save some space. I'm going to archive/snapshot it now and then convert to a larger fixed size virtual disk and to move it to SSD. The question is what other development/utility tools would you install on such a VM with the purpose to use that VM for - MS Windows 7/8 desktop development, - ASP.NET web development, - Windows 8 RT (past "Metro-style") development and - Windows Phone 7.5/8 development? I prefer to use "minimal set" - as minimal as possible - of development tools and utilties, I do not use third-party .NET controls but I do use and I do plan to install the end-user programs/dev.tools/utilities as: - Win8 SDK; - Adobe Reader; - Adobe Flash; - Google Chrome; - FireFox; - FAR Manager; - WinRAR; - LINQPad; - RegEx Buddy; - Enterprise Architect; - Mercurial (HG); - NUNit; - TestDriven.Net; - IrfanView; - INNO-Setup; --- What other dev.tools/utilities would you recommend to setup? Thank you. -- Shamil ? From hans.andersen at phulse.com Thu Dec 6 16:27:23 2012 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2012 14:27:23 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] The state of the web In-Reply-To: <1354826217.696893727@f181.mail.ru> References: <1354826217.696893727@f181.mail.ru> Message-ID: <8C6C3667-A855-408A-8DFF-B76425CB370F@phulse.com> No worries. I don't even know what the purpose of having institutions like Gartner and IDC concoct such long term predictions. I suppose it makes for nice headlines in news reports. Aside from that, they are next to pointless, often misleading and not a reliable source. > I meant both, tablets and smartphones, let's for MS Windows set that as MS Windows Phones 7.5, 8, ... and Windows RT but not a "transformer MS Windows tablet" able to run full scale Windows 8.... Then, in that case, I still think 30% is a bit hopeful based on current sales figures. All accounts so far has been that sales haven't been as high as expected... or "modest", in Ballmers words. I certainly don't know anyone, who has expressed any interest in the Surface tablet, nor do I know anyone with a Windows Phone, nor have I seen any interest in any social news websites I follow. This contrasts with whenever Apple releases a new phone or tablet - I always overhear that mentioned in conversation. This is perhaps not the biggest sample and is purely anecdotal (I'm certain it would be different experience if I lived in Seattle), but I will be very surprised if it's not somewhat a modest indication. Buon Fortuna Hans On 2012-12-06, at 12:36 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi Hans -- > > <<< > But, I suppose even a broken clock is right twice a day. :) >>>> > Correct. :) > > <<< > Of course, Gartner has a very checkered past in making future predictions. After all, they once predicted 3 years ago that by 2012, the top 4 mobile phone platforms would be Android, Symbian Blackberry and then Windows Mobile. They didn't think that the iPhone would continue to grow in market share at the pace that it has. They also said Nokia would retain a 40% market share of smartphones (oops). >>>> > OOPS, I didn't know that - next time I will use more reliable "speculations source"... > > <<< > I was referring to mobile as Windows Phone, not tablets. >>>> > I meant both, tablets and smartphones, let's for MS Windows set that as MS Windows Phones 7.5, 8, ... and Windows RT but not a "transformer MS Windows tablet" able to run full scale Windows 8.... > > <<< > At the end of the day, it is fun to speculate, but none of us really know whats going to happen 3 years from now. >>>> > Yes :) - let's hope we will have opportunity to get back to that thread discussion in three years on year 2016 Eve to see what will happen then on mobile market... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > ???????, 6 ??????? 2012, 12:05 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen : >> >> >> > > >> > > > >> Hi Shamil, >> > >> > I was referring to mobile as Windows Phone, not tablets. >> > >> > If we are talking about tablet market share, I wouldn't place a bet on anything by 2016 for the mere fact that the PC world is starting to blur the lines between the traditional laptop and a tablet. In fact, the article you linked to even made specific reference to "convertibles". So, by the time 2016 comes around, it will be a matter of how you interpret the numbers. It's a clever strategy of trying to shoehorn your way into relevance. >> > >> > Whether it will be a success, however, is pure speculation. But, if we are talking about pure tablets - a product with the characteristics of current iPads and Android tablets (a mobile computer that is primarily operated by touching the screen) - I would feel more confident in saying that I doubt Microsoft will be able to capture 30% of that market share by 2016. Not unless Windows 8 is a runaway success (which I don't think it will be) and consumers start wanting "tablets" rather than simply wanting iPads, as is currently the case. >> > >> > Of course, Gartner has a very checkered past in making future predictions. After all, they once predicted 3 years ago that by 2012, the top 4 mobile phone platforms would be Android, Symbian Blackberry and then Windows Mobile. They didn't think that the iPhone would continue to grow in market share at the pace that it has. They also said Nokia would retain a 40% market share of smartphones (oops). >> > >> > But, I suppose even a broken clock is right twice a day. :) >> > >> > At the end of the day, it is fun to speculate, but none of us really know whats going to happen 3 years from now. >> > >> > - Hans >> > >> > >> > >> > On 2012-12-06, at 9:18 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: >> > >> >> Hi Hans -- >> >> >> >> <<< >> >> Microsoft isn't going to grab a 30% market share simply by existing. >> >>>>> >> >> >> >> That's Gartner: Windows 8 Tablets To Hold 39% Market Share In Businesses By 2016 >> >> >> >> http://microsoft-news.com/gartner-windows-8-tablets-to-hold-39-market-share-in-businesses-by-2016/ >> >> >> >> Let's hope we will have opportunity to refer to this discussion thread on year 2016 eve. >> >> >> >> Till then, >> >> >> >> Yours, >> >> >> >> Shamil :) >> >> >> >> >> >> ???????, 6 ??????? 2012, 6:20 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen : >> >> >> >>> >> >>> But 30% mobile market share in three-five years seems to be almost guaranteed to MS... >> >>> >> >>> >> >> I'm just curious as to how 30% is almost guaranteed? Where does this number come from? The current market share is in the low single digits and not growing all that much. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> And as you say "Microsoft is doing fantastic job with Xbox" so adapting that experience to MS mobile, using mobile devices together with Xbox should make MS positions even stronger? >> >>> >> >>> >> >> This is unlikely. The Xbox had a "killer app" in the form of Halo and also was (and still is) way ahead of the competition with Xbox Live. This is what helped them succeed from being the new kid on the block among established heavy weights and they are smartly building on top of that success with great new features. >> >>> >> >>> >> >> I don't see anything like that for the Windows Phone platform. Why would anyone adopt it? Everyone else is using iPhones and Android phones, who both seem to be quite satisfied with their platforms. They both have much larger app stores and higher profile apps. It needs to be something more than simply a few bells and whistles, like integrating it with the Xbox. It would be a nice touch, but the Xbox has only ever sold 70 million units in total (since 2005). Contrast that with 45 million iPhone 5's to be sold by the end of this year (and it was released this September). With numbers like that, you can see that its not really going to be a significant selling point for most consumers. >> >>> >> >>> >> >> To add to that, some people have a strong loyalty to Microsoft, such as yourself, but most do not. Most Windows users use Windows because that is what they are accustomed to it and because it is shipped on every computer by default anyways - not because that they feel strongly for the Microsoft brand nor because they make a conscious decision as a consumer that Windows is the best computer OS compared to the alternatives. In other words, they continue to succeed here by sheer force of monopoly. >> >>> >> >>> >> >> However, they are in a different position with Windows Phone, which is in such a weak position at the moment. They really need that killer app/feature/innovation to draw peoples attention and I'm not aware of anything. They need an "Angry Birds" exclusive to WP8 or something to that effect. >> >>> >> >>> >> >> Microsoft isn't going to grab a 30% market share simply by existing. >> >>> >> >>> >> >> - Hans >> >>> <<< skipped >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> dba-Tech mailing list >> >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > dba-Tech mailing list >> >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> > > > > > >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Dec 6 17:27:36 2012 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2012 09:27:36 +1000 Subject: [dba-Tech] Virus coming In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <50C129E8.32119.28C2FAD8@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Sigh! Did you know that the word "gullible" doesn't apppear in the Oxford Dictionary? That message has ALL the "hallmarks" of an unkillable chain mail. See http://www.snopes.com/computer/virus/postcard.asp -- Stuart On 6 Dec 2012 at 10:19, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I've just recently learned of a virus that was described by CNN as the most > destructive ever seen. It poses as a Hallark e-postcard and the subject of > the email is either Postcard or Postcard from Hallmark. > > The virus destroys the zero sector of your main hard disk. McAfee > discovered it yesterday. > > -- > Arthur > Cell: 647.710.1314 > > Prediction is difficult, especially of the future. > -- Niels Bohr > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Dec 6 17:39:28 2012 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2012 09:39:28 +1000 Subject: [dba-Tech] The state of the web In-Reply-To: <1354814338.415999234@f86.mail.ru> References: <1354814338.415999234@f86.mail.ru> Message-ID: <50C12CB0.8883.28CDD889@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> "39% tablets market share in businesses" is a long way from "30% mobile market share". And how can the say that and say that and also say at the same time: "In the business market, Windows 8 will take the No. 3 position in the tablet market behind Apple and Android by 2016, " That is impossible on the basis of 39%. It's worth noting that the Gartner prediction was made back in April, before anyone had actually seen the devices or the pricing. Here's an alternative and much more recent view: 10% http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/12/06/idc_windows_tablets_10percent_by_2016/ On 6 Dec 2012 at 21:18, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi Hans -- > > <<< > Microsoft isn't going to grab a 30% market share simply by existing. > >>> > > That's?Gartner: Windows 8 Tablets To Hold 39% Market Share In Businesses By 2016 > > http://microsoft-news.com/gartner-windows-8-tablets-to-hold-39-market-share-in-businesses-by-2016/ > > Let's hope we will have opportunity to refer to this discussion thread on year 2016 eve. > > Till then, > > Yours, > > Shamil :) > > > , 6 2012, 6:20 Hans-Christian Andersen : > > > > > But 30% mobile market share in three-five years seems to be almost guaranteed to MS... > > > > > I'm just curious as to how 30% is almost guaranteed? Where does this number come from? The current market share is in the low single digits and not growing all that much. > > > > > > And as you say "Microsoft is doing fantastic job with Xbox" so adapting that experience to MS mobile, using mobile devices together with Xbox should make MS positions even stronger? > > > > > This is unlikely. The Xbox had a "killer app" in the form of Halo and also was (and still is) way ahead of the competition with Xbox Live. This is what helped them succeed from being the new kid on the block among established heavy weights and they are smartly building on top of that success with great new features. > > > > > I don't see anything like that for the Windows Phone platform. Why would anyone adopt it? Everyone else is using iPhones and Android phones, who both seem to be quite satisfied with their platforms. They both have much larger app stores and higher profile apps. It needs to be something more than simply a few bells and whistles, like integrating it with the Xbox. It would be a nice touch, but the Xbox has only ever sold 70 million units in total (since 2005). Contrast that with 45 million iPhone 5's to be sold by the end of this year (and it was released this September). With numbers like that, you can see that its not really going to be a significant selling point for most consumers. > > > > > To add to that, some people have a strong loyalty to Microsoft, such as yourself, but most do not. Most Windows users use Windows because that is what they are accustomed to it and because it is shipped on every computer by default anyways - not because that they feel strongly for the Microsoft brand nor because they make a conscious decision as a consumer that Windows is the best computer OS compared to the alternatives. In other words, they continue to succeed here by sheer force of monopoly. > > > > > However, they are in a different position with Windows Phone, which is in such a weak position at the moment. They really need that killer app/feature/innovation to draw peoples attention and I'm not aware of anything. They need an "Angry Birds" exclusive to WP8 or something to that effect. > > > > > Microsoft isn't going to grab a 30% market share simply by existing. > > > > > - Hans > ><<< skipped >>> > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Sun Dec 9 07:19:27 2012 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2012 17:19:27 +0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] =?utf-8?q?ASUS_N76Vz_looses_multi-touch_capability_aft?= =?utf-8?q?er__=22awakening=22_from_sleep_mode_or_=2E=2E=2E?= Message-ID: <1355059167.444972247@f244.mail.ru> Hi All -- I anybody of you have the subj PC or have the similar issue of a notebook's touch-pad loosing multi-touch capabilities after "awakening" from sleep mode or because of some other reasons could you please advise how the issue can be solved without restarting PC? Googling haven't yet given me any answers/advises... Thank you. -- Shamil? From accessd at shaw.ca Sun Dec 9 11:23:19 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2012 09:23:19 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] ASUS N76Vz looses multi-touch capability after "awakening" from sleep mode or ... In-Reply-To: <1355059167.444972247@f244.mail.ru> References: <1355059167.444972247@f244.mail.ru> Message-ID: <7E3573753D7A4585978136F399270A2A@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Shamil: Owww, not good. I have not heard of it myself and will post anything that appears up. Could it be a defective unit or a defective OS? ;-) (Have you checked with Microsoft?) Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 5:19 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: [dba-Tech] ASUS N76Vz looses multi-touch capability after "awakening" from sleep mode or ... Hi All -- I anybody of you have the subj PC or have the similar issue of a notebook's touch-pad loosing multi-touch capabilities after "awakening" from sleep mode or because of some other reasons could you please advise how the issue can be solved without restarting PC? Googling haven't yet given me any answers/advises... Thank you. -- Shamil? _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Sun Dec 9 13:41:18 2012 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2012 23:41:18 +0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] =?utf-8?q?ASUS_N76Vz_looses_multi-touch_capability_aft?= =?utf-8?q?er_=22awakening=22_from_sleep_mode_or_=2E=2E=2E?= Message-ID: <1355082078.539228978@f370.mail.ru> Hi Jim -- Well, that's MS Windows 8 driven ASUS N76Vz :) And I have bought it with Win7 installed but then I have asked the same shop to upgrade it: I have got purchased Win8 upgrade and they have got this notebook configured for me. They could have missed to setup some drivers properly? But ?multi-touch functionality of touch-pad works well on reboot but then it *sometimes* stops to work, I have noticed that often happens after getting notebook out of sleep mode. But it could be also somehow related to Hyper-V VMs? I have a few of them running - I guess they could somehow cause the issue when I'm switching from one VM to another - just a wild guess... I must note I have already accustomed to use "two fingers scrolling" and "two fingers zoom-in/zoom-out" multi-touch gestures of touchpad of ASUS N786Vz... Thank you. -- Shamil ???????????, 9 ??????? 2012, 9:23 ?? "Jim Lawrence" : > > > > >Hi Shamil: > > Owww, not good. I have not heard of it myself and will post anything that > appears up. Could it be a defective unit or a defective OS? ;-) (Have you > checked with Microsoft?) > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov > Shamil > Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 5:19 AM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: [dba-Tech] ASUS N76Vz looses multi-touch capability after > "awakening" from sleep mode or ... > > Hi All -- > > I anybody of you have the subj PC or have the similar issue of a notebook's > touch-pad loosing multi-touch capabilities after "awakening" from sleep mode > or because of some other reasons could you please advise how the issue can > be solved without restarting PC? > > Googling haven't yet given me any answers/advises... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil? > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From bill_patten at embarqmail.com Sun Dec 9 15:22:33 2012 From: bill_patten at embarqmail.com (Bill Patten) Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2012 13:22:33 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] ASUS N76Vz looses multi-touch capability after "awakening" from sleep mode or ... In-Reply-To: <1355082078.539228978@f370.mail.ru> References: <1355082078.539228978@f370.mail.ru> Message-ID: <6B43CC7223E44E4FBDF93B3F1FB121C5@BPCS> Shamil, You may have already found this but just in case. http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_8-tms/touchpad-gestures-stop-working-after-sleep-in/0a1e3d9d-212f-4a80-ab8c-21bcfd76fb36 Also it it uses the synaptic touchpad this guy said the drivers from synaptics helped. ftp://ftp.hp.com/pub/softpaq/sp59001-59500/sp59085.exe HTH Bill -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 11:41 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] ASUS N76Vz looses multi-touch capability after "awakening" from sleep mode or ... Hi Jim -- Well, that's MS Windows 8 driven ASUS N76Vz :) And I have bought it with Win7 installed but then I have asked the same shop to upgrade it: I have got purchased Win8 upgrade and they have got this notebook configured for me. They could have missed to setup some drivers properly? But multi-touch functionality of touch-pad works well on reboot but then it *sometimes* stops to work, I have noticed that often happens after getting notebook out of sleep mode. But it could be also somehow related to Hyper-V VMs? I have a few of them running - I guess they could somehow cause the issue when I'm switching from one VM to another - just a wild guess... I must note I have already accustomed to use "two fingers scrolling" and "two fingers zoom-in/zoom-out" multi-touch gestures of touchpad of ASUS N786Vz... Thank you. -- Shamil ???????????, 9 ??????? 2012, 9:23 ?? "Jim Lawrence" : > > > > >Hi Shamil: > > Owww, not good. I have not heard of it myself and will post anything that > appears up. Could it be a defective unit or a defective OS? ;-) (Have you > checked with Microsoft?) > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov > Shamil > Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 5:19 AM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: [dba-Tech] ASUS N76Vz looses multi-touch capability after > "awakening" from sleep mode or ... > > Hi All -- > > I anybody of you have the subj PC or have the similar issue of a notebook's > touch-pad loosing multi-touch capabilities after "awakening" from sleep mode > or because of some other reasons could you please advise how the issue can > be solved without restarting PC? > > Googling haven't yet given me any answers/advises... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Sun Dec 9 16:33:25 2012 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 02:33:25 +0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] =?utf-8?q?ASUS_N76Vz_looses_multi-touch_capability_aft?= =?utf-8?q?er_=22awakening=22_from_sleep_mode_or_=2E=2E=2E?= Message-ID: <1355092405.116292680@f347.mail.ru> Hi Bill -- Thank you for the link. No, I haven't seen it. I don't know the manufacturer of touchpad, as for its drivers I should have ASUS Smart Gesture (TouchPad Driver) as it's listed here?http://www.asus.com/Notebooks/Multimedia_Entertainment/N76VZ/#download Following your link's advice I have opened "Device Manager" but I didn't find Touchpad there (I haven't yet rebooted my PC). I have checked ?"Mice and Other Pointing Devices" and "Other Devices" and "Keyboard" and all the other entries of "Device Manager" treeview. I will reboot my PC now to see will I find Touchpad drivers or not... Thank you. -- Shamil ???????????, 9 ??????? 2012, 13:22 ?? "Bill Patten" : > > > > >Shamil, > > You may have already found this but just in case. > > >http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_8-tms/touchpad-gestures-stop-working-after-sleep-in/0a1e3d9d-212f-4a80-ab8c-21bcfd76fb36 > > Also it it uses the synaptic touchpad this guy said the drivers from > synaptics helped. > > >ftp://ftp.hp.com/pub/softpaq/sp59001-59500/sp59085.exe > > HTH > > Bill > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 11:41 AM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] ASUS N76Vz looses multi-touch capability after > "awakening" from sleep mode or ... > > Hi Jim -- > > Well, that's MS Windows 8 driven ASUS N76Vz :) > > And I have bought it with Win7 installed but then I have asked the same shop > to upgrade it: I have got purchased Win8 upgrade and they have got this > notebook configured for me. They could have missed to setup some drivers > properly? But multi-touch functionality of touch-pad works well on reboot > but then it *sometimes* stops to work, I have noticed that often happens > after getting notebook out of sleep mode. But it could be also somehow > related to Hyper-V VMs? I have a few of them running - I guess they could > somehow cause the issue when I'm switching from one VM to another - just a > wild guess... > > I must note I have already accustomed to use "two fingers scrolling" and > "two fingers zoom-in/zoom-out" multi-touch gestures of touchpad of ASUS > N786Vz... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > > ???????????, 9 ??????? 2012, 9:23 ?? "Jim Lawrence" : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Hi Shamil: > > > > > > Owww, not good. I have not heard of it myself and will post anything that > > > appears up. Could it be a defective unit or a defective OS? ;-) (Have you > > > checked with Microsoft?) > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov > > > Shamil > > > Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 5:19 AM > > > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > > > Subject: [dba-Tech] ASUS N76Vz looses multi-touch capability after > > > "awakening" from sleep mode or ... > > > > > > Hi All -- > > > > > > I anybody of you have the subj PC or have the similar issue of a notebook's > > > touch-pad loosing multi-touch capabilities after "awakening" from sleep mode > > > or because of some other reasons could you please advise how the issue can > > > be solved without restarting PC? > > > > > > Googling haven't yet given me any answers/advises... > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > -- Shamil > > > _______________________________________________ > > > dba-Tech mailing list > > > >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > > > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > dba-Tech mailing list > > > >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > > > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Sun Dec 9 16:39:09 2012 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 02:39:09 +0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] =?utf-8?q?ASUS_N76Vz_looses_multi-touch_capability_aft?= =?utf-8?q?er_=22awakening=22_from_sleep_mode_or_=2E=2E=2E?= Message-ID: <1355092749.403557014@f338.mail.ru> Hi All -- Just wanted to note that I have rebooted PC (it took a few seconds) and multi-touch works well. But I still do not see "Touchpad" is mentioned in the list of devices of "Device Manager" treview. I will go looking for it in the system somewhere else.I do remember I have seen it somewhere... :) Thank you. -- Shamiul ???????????, 10 ??????? 2012, 2:33 ?? Salakhetdinov Shamil : > > > > >Hi Bill -- > > Thank you for the link. No, I haven't seen it. > > I don't know the manufacturer of touchpad, as for its drivers I should have ASUS Smart Gesture (TouchPad Driver) as it's listed here?http://www.asus.com/Notebooks/Multimedia_Entertainment/N76VZ/#download > > Following your link's advice I have opened "Device Manager" but I didn't find Touchpad there (I haven't yet rebooted my PC). > I have checked ?"Mice and Other Pointing Devices" and "Other Devices" and "Keyboard" and all the other entries of "Device Manager" treeview. > > I will reboot my PC now to see will I find Touchpad drivers or not... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > ???????????, 9 ??????? 2012, 13:22 ?? "Bill Patten" : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Shamil, > > > > > > You may have already found this but just in case. > > > > > > >http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_8-tms/touchpad-gestures-stop-working-after-sleep-in/0a1e3d9d-212f-4a80-ab8c-21bcfd76fb36 > > > > > > Also it it uses the synaptic touchpad this guy said the drivers from > > > synaptics helped. > > > > > > >ftp://ftp.hp.com/pub/softpaq/sp59001-59500/sp59085.exe > > > > > > HTH > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Salakhetdinov Shamil > > > Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 11:41 AM > > > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > > > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] ASUS N76Vz looses multi-touch capability after > > > "awakening" from sleep mode or ... > > > > > > Hi Jim -- > > > > > > Well, that's MS Windows 8 driven ASUS N76Vz :) > > > > > > And I have bought it with Win7 installed but then I have asked the same shop > > > to upgrade it: I have got purchased Win8 upgrade and they have got this > > > notebook configured for me. They could have missed to setup some drivers > > > properly? But multi-touch functionality of touch-pad works well on reboot > > > but then it *sometimes* stops to work, I have noticed that often happens > > > after getting notebook out of sleep mode. But it could be also somehow > > > related to Hyper-V VMs? I have a few of them running - I guess they could > > > somehow cause the issue when I'm switching from one VM to another - just a > > > wild guess... > > > > > > I must note I have already accustomed to use "two fingers scrolling" and > > > "two fingers zoom-in/zoom-out" multi-touch gestures of touchpad of ASUS > > > N786Vz... > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > -- Shamil > > > > > > > > > ???????????, 9 ??????? 2012, 9:23 ?? "Jim Lawrence" : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Hi Shamil: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Owww, not good. I have not heard of it myself and will post anything that > > > > > > > appears up. Could it be a defective unit or a defective OS? ;-) (Have you > > > > > > > checked with Microsoft?) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov > > > > > > > Shamil > > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 5:19 AM > > > > > > > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > > > > > > > Subject: [dba-Tech] ASUS N76Vz looses multi-touch capability after > > > > > > > "awakening" from sleep mode or ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi All -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I anybody of you have the subj PC or have the similar issue of a notebook's > > > > > > > touch-pad loosing multi-touch capabilities after "awakening" from sleep mode > > > > > > > or because of some other reasons could you please advise how the issue can > > > > > > > be solved without restarting PC? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Googling haven't yet given me any answers/advises... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Shamil > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > dba-Tech mailing list > > > > > > > >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > > > > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > dba-Tech mailing list > > > > > > > >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > > > > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > dba-Tech mailing list > > > >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > > > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > dba-Tech mailing list > > > >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > > > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Dec 10 11:41:43 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 09:41:43 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] SilverLight is gone In-Reply-To: <1355092749.403557014@f338.mail.ru> References: <1355092749.403557014@f338.mail.ru> Message-ID: <89C6FA369BE041DC8A5729267BCD2699@creativesystemdesigns.com> SilverLight is now history, though as always, not officially. As the article says, "Of course SilverLight will be around on the Windows desktop and in IE for sometime, but it is a very real and uncomfortable lesson in adopting such proprietary technologies..." http://www.i-programmer.info/news/89-net/5179-microsoft-closes-silverlightne t.html This is a good reason to always wait a years or two before adopting any new technology especially in the computer industry as everything runs at the speed of light and can just blink out within a year. Jim From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Dec 10 13:07:42 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 11:07:42 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] Leveraging your .Net skills in uncertain times In-Reply-To: <1355092749.403557014@f338.mail.ru> References: <1355092749.403557014@f338.mail.ru> Message-ID: In these uncertain times, of post Microsoft Empire, where no one can say for sure, "What's next?", it is always best to keep your options open. Open standards and OSS is a good broad philosophy but then there has to be good and reliable products out there that fill the definition. Here is one set of products that will fill some/one of the programming voids...MONO and it various iterations. http://www.mono-project.com/Main_Page ...and for the gamers amongst you... http://monogame.codeplex.com/ The above package states its goal of "Write once, Play everywhere". Regardless of what you personally think of Microsoft, this product is the real thing and is supported, to a large degree by Microsoft, using many of the programmers that work there. Has anyone here had a serious look at the MONO collect? Aside: It is not that MS suddenly has a change of Capitalistic heart, it is the sober understanding of reality that the Open Source community evolves faster and is significantly more innovative than any closed shop. I am sure that Apple and even Google, to a large extent, will eventually be forced, even kicking and screaming, to adopt a similar attitude. Jim From fuller.artful at gmail.com Mon Dec 10 14:15:37 2012 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 15:15:37 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Outlook Question Message-ID: I don't use Outlook much, but I used to a lot, so I know my around it. But I have never used it in a situation where one or more employees would need access to one another's calendars (for example, to check someone's availability for meeting. One particular worker, the Planner, would need access to everyone's calendars, for example to book appointments for more than one doctor within the office. Now what would be really cool is if there were also a way to "overlay" several calendars and get a visual representation of the availability of any combination of the workers, so you could say, "Show me the times when these five people are all available for a one-hour meeting." And it would present them in some graphical way on a virtual calendar. Can that be done with Shared Outlook or whatever the product is called? TIA, Arthur From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Dec 10 14:16:47 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 12:16:47 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] The new Smartphone In-Reply-To: References: <1355092749.403557014@f338.mail.ru> Message-ID: <2AB9EE0307524A6F99EF1BA8B91A53C0@creativesystemdesigns.com> The new Nokia Lumina929 looks and sounds like a truly awesome piece of hardware. http://www.nokia.com/global/products/phone/lumia920/ Too bad it only runs Win8. ;-) ...or does it? Jim From df.waters at comcast.net Mon Dec 10 14:37:46 2012 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 14:37:46 -0600 Subject: [dba-Tech] Outlook Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000a01cdd716$367d0df0$a37729d0$@comcast.net> Hi Arthur, I've seen this done, but I don't know how. Perhaps if a person has access to several people's calendars, it's a matter of displaying a window for each person? Dan -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Monday, December 10, 2012 2:16 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: [dba-Tech] Outlook Question I don't use Outlook much, but I used to a lot, so I know my around it. But I have never used it in a situation where one or more employees would need access to one another's calendars (for example, to check someone's availability for meeting. One particular worker, the Planner, would need access to everyone's calendars, for example to book appointments for more than one doctor within the office. Now what would be really cool is if there were also a way to "overlay" several calendars and get a visual representation of the availability of any combination of the workers, so you could say, "Show me the times when these five people are all available for a one-hour meeting." And it would present them in some graphical way on a virtual calendar. Can that be done with Shared Outlook or whatever the product is called? TIA, Arthur _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Mon Dec 10 15:03:39 2012 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 15:03:39 -0600 Subject: [dba-Tech] Outlook Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <009901cdd719$d474a1a0$7d5de4e0$@winhaven.net> Use the scheduling view [Home][Scheduling] to see if that does what you are looking for. You can view this when sending a meeting request also [Meeting][Scheduling]. -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Monday, December 10, 2012 2:16 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: [dba-Tech] Outlook Question I don't use Outlook much, but I used to a lot, so I know my around it. But I have never used it in a situation where one or more employees would need access to one another's calendars (for example, to check someone's availability for meeting. One particular worker, the Planner, would need access to everyone's calendars, for example to book appointments for more than one doctor within the office. Now what would be really cool is if there were also a way to "overlay" several calendars and get a visual representation of the availability of any combination of the workers, so you could say, "Show me the times when these five people are all available for a one-hour meeting." And it would present them in some graphical way on a virtual calendar. Can that be done with Shared Outlook or whatever the product is called? TIA, Arthur _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Dec 10 23:20:23 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 21:20:23 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] The top jobs of 2013 In-Reply-To: <009901cdd719$d474a1a0$7d5de4e0$@winhaven.net> References: <009901cdd719$d474a1a0$7d5de4e0$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: For those of you still wondering whether your career in the computer industry was the best option it appears that it was, still is and will be in the future. The following link lists the top 15 jobs, probably in the industrial world. Six of the top jobs categories are in computer field. http://www.cbsnews.com/2300-505143_162-10014765.html?tag=nl.e664&s_cid=e664 Jim From peter.brawley at earthlink.net Mon Dec 10 23:50:22 2012 From: peter.brawley at earthlink.net (Peter Brawley) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 23:50:22 -0600 Subject: [dba-Tech] The top jobs of 2013 In-Reply-To: References: <009901cdd719$d474a1a0$7d5de4e0$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <50C6C99E.8020801@earthlink.net> On 2012-12-10 11:20 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > For those of you still wondering whether your career in the computer > industry was the best option it appears that it was, still is and will be in > the future. > > The following link lists the top 15 jobs, probably in the industrial world. > Six of the top jobs categories are in computer field. > > http://www.cbsnews.com/2300-505143_162-10014765.html?tag=nl.e664&s_cid=e664 Hmmm, #1, #11 & #15 are the only ones I'm any good at, also the only ones I think I could stand doing for more than six months. PB > > Jim > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From hans.andersen at phulse.com Tue Dec 11 01:28:27 2012 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 23:28:27 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] Leveraging your .Net skills in uncertain times In-Reply-To: References: <1355092749.403557014@f338.mail.ru> Message-ID: <738CC61D-8AAB-4BD2-9A8F-C719F1081898@phulse.com> > In these uncertain times, of post Microsoft Empire, where no one can say for sure, "What's next?", it is always best to keep your options open. I don't know if going the Mono route is the best move in our post-Microsoft days. I have nothing against C# and I certainly like it a lot better than Java, but Microsoft has certain patents, that could jeopardize the Mono project should Microsoft ever decide to. Currently, Microsoft only "promises" that they won't assert their patents, but a promise is meaningless and I can certainly see Microsoft doing a 180 if any of their main competitors decided to use or contribute to Mono in any significant way. > Regardless of what you personally think of Microsoft, this product is the real thing and is supported, to a large degree by Microsoft, Is Mono supported by Microsoft? I didn't know this. - Hans On 2012-12-10, at 11:07 AM, "Jim Lawrence" wrote: > In these uncertain times, of post Microsoft Empire, where no one can say for > sure, "What's next?", it is always best to keep your options open. > > Open standards and OSS is a good broad philosophy but then there has to be > good and reliable products out there that fill the definition. Here is one > set of products that will fill some/one of the programming voids...MONO and > it various iterations. > > http://www.mono-project.com/Main_Page > > ...and for the gamers amongst you... > > http://monogame.codeplex.com/ > > The above package states its goal of "Write once, Play everywhere". > Regardless of what you personally think of Microsoft, this product is the > real thing and is supported, to a large degree by Microsoft, using many of > the programmers that work there. > > Has anyone here had a serious look at the MONO collect? > > Aside: It is not that MS suddenly has a change of Capitalistic heart, it is > the sober understanding of reality that the Open Source community evolves > faster and is significantly more innovative than any closed shop. I am sure > that Apple and even Google, to a large extent, will eventually be forced, > even kicking and screaming, to adopt a similar attitude. > > Jim > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Dec 11 02:05:34 2012 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 18:05:34 +1000 Subject: [dba-Tech] Leveraging your .Net skills in uncertain times In-Reply-To: <738CC61D-8AAB-4BD2-9A8F-C719F1081898@phulse.com> References: <1355092749.403557014@f338.mail.ru>, , <738CC61D-8AAB-4BD2-9A8F-C719F1081898@phulse.com> Message-ID: <50C6E94E.5977.3F36A06F@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> And how many things that were "supported by Microsoft" lost that support and subsequently died? Going all the way back over 20 years to OS/2 :-) On 10 Dec 2012 at 23:28, Hans-Christian Andersen wrote: > > Regardless of what you personally think of Microsoft, this product > is the real thing and is supported, to a large degree by Microsoft, > > Is Mono supported by Microsoft? I didn't know this. > > - Hans > From hans.andersen at phulse.com Tue Dec 11 02:13:55 2012 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 00:13:55 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] Leveraging your .Net skills in uncertain times In-Reply-To: <50C6E94E.5977.3F36A06F@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <1355092749.403557014@f338.mail.ru>, , <738CC61D-8AAB-4BD2-9A8F-C719F1081898@phulse.com> <50C6E94E.5977.3F36A06F@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Good point. On 2012-12-11, at 12:05 AM, "Stuart McLachlan" wrote: > And how many things that were "supported by Microsoft" lost that support and subsequently > died? > > Going all the way back over 20 years to OS/2 :-) > > > On 10 Dec 2012 at 23:28, Hans-Christian Andersen wrote: > >>> Regardless of what you personally think of Microsoft, this product >> is the real thing and is supported, to a large degree by Microsoft, >> >> Is Mono supported by Microsoft? I didn't know this. >> >> - Hans >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Tue Dec 11 08:49:47 2012 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 09:49:47 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Add Folder to Library Message-ID: Can someone remind me how to add a folder to a library? (Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit) TIA, Arthur From tinanfields at torchlake.com Tue Dec 11 11:18:51 2012 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 12:18:51 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Add Folder to Library In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <50C76AFB.90500@torchlake.com> Hi Arthur, Well, I just navigated to the Libraries folder, right-clicked in it, and selected New Library. That created a new library folder for me to name. So, I hope that's what you were looking for. Best, T Tina Norris Fields tinanfields at torchlake.com 231-322-2787 On 12/11/2012 9:49 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > Can someone remind me how to add a folder to a library? (Windows 7 Ultimate > 64-bit) > > TIA, > Arthur > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Tue Dec 11 14:03:42 2012 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 15:03:42 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Add Folder to Library In-Reply-To: <50C76AFB.90500@torchlake.com> References: <50C76AFB.90500@torchlake.com> Message-ID: Not what I was looking for, but I'll play around some more. What I want to achieve is this: I have several external hard disks and thumb drives, all containing documents in some of their folders. I want these particular folders to appear under Libraries | Documents A. From hans.andersen at phulse.com Tue Dec 11 14:04:37 2012 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 12:04:37 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] Samba 4.0 released - Open Source File and Active Directory server In-Reply-To: <50C76AFB.90500@torchlake.com> References: <50C76AFB.90500@torchlake.com> Message-ID: <81D79C7A-2B01-42B9-8930-B32FC0F3235F@phulse.com> Samba 4.0 is officially released now and boasts some great new features, such as being able to be an Active Directory domain controller. http://www.samba.org/samba/history/samba-4.0.0.html "Samba 4.0 supports the server-side of the Active Directory logon environment used by Windows 2000 and later, so we can do full domain join and domain logon operations with these clients. Our Domain Controller (DC) implementation includes our own built-in LDAP server and Kerberos Key Distribution Center (KDC) as well as the Samba3-like logon services provided over CIFS." This is especially good for any of you who have a tight budget and don't want to pay thousands of dollars to Microsoft. It's free & open source and, of course, runs on the best, most stable operating systems out there (Linux and FreeBSD). You also have the added advantage of having a fully flexible, scriptable and truly interoperable AD solution. - Hans From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Dec 11 14:19:59 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 12:19:59 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] New Linux In-Reply-To: References: <1355092749.403557014@f338.mail.ru>, , <738CC61D-8AAB-4BD2-9A8F-C719F1081898@phulse.com><50C6E94E.5977.3F36A06F@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <573EA00495DD47F9B8F17DE1A0072F10@creativesystemdesigns.com> Linux 3.7 has been officially released as the tenth of the month, yesterday. This release adds support for the new ARM 64-bit architecture, ARM multiplatform - the ability to boot into different ARM systems using a single kernel; support for cryptographically signed kernel modules; Btrfs (B-tree file system) support for disabling copy-on-write on a per-file basis using chattr; faster Btrfs fsync(); a new experimental 'perf trace' tool modeled after strace; support for the TCP Fast Open feature in the server side; experimental SMBv2 protocol support; stable NFS 4.1 and parallel NFS; a vxlan tunneling protocol that allows to transfer Layer 2 ethernet packets over UDP; and support for the Intel SMAP security feature...and so on and so on. http://kernelnewbies.org/Linux_3.7 This make Linux the single most advanced secure/fastest/stablist OS on the planet. But it will probably be a while before it is incorpoated into all the stanard distros. Some unofficials hacks attaching the Linix 3.7 to Debian and then to Ubuntu 12.4 are already being produced but I understand you would have to do the compile yourself. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/MainlineBuilds Jim From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Dec 11 14:27:40 2012 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2012 06:27:40 +1000 Subject: [dba-Tech] Add Folder to Library In-Reply-To: References: , <50C76AFB.90500@torchlake.com>, Message-ID: <50C7973C.11200.41DE08DF@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Rigth click on Libraries | Documents.adn select properties. You get a window that lets you add directories. -- Stuart On 11 Dec 2012 at 15:03, Arthur Fuller wrote: > Not what I was looking for, but I'll play around some more. What I want to > achieve is this: I have several external hard disks and thumb drives, all > containing documents in some of their folders. I want these particular > folders to appear under Libraries | Documents > > A. > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From hans.andersen at phulse.com Tue Dec 11 14:39:30 2012 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 12:39:30 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] New Linux In-Reply-To: <573EA00495DD47F9B8F17DE1A0072F10@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <1355092749.403557014@f338.mail.ru>, , <738CC61D-8AAB-4BD2-9A8F-C719F1081898@phulse.com><50C6E94E.5977.3F36A06F@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <573EA00495DD47F9B8F17DE1A0072F10@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <2A608052-F6F4-4154-BCA7-1F783B7C08F3@phulse.com> Compiling your own kernel is a bit of a pain, unless you really need it. And it will be many years before 3.7 ends up on most distros by default though. Debian, my favorite distro, is especially particular about this, since the emphasis in Debian is to have a stable operating system. So they are quite a few versions behind. I haven't checked recently, but I'm pretty sure the latest Debian (6.0) is still on Linux kernel 2.x. But, wow, 3.7 already eh? It took over a decade to get from 2.0 to 3.0 and now we are on 3.7 already after a year? Linus Torvalds must be drinking a lot of espresso these days. :| - Hans On 2012-12-11, at 12:19 PM, "Jim Lawrence" wrote: > Linux 3.7 has been officially released as the tenth of the month, yesterday. > > This release adds support for the new ARM 64-bit architecture, ARM > multiplatform - the ability to boot into different ARM systems using a > single kernel; support for cryptographically signed kernel modules; Btrfs > (B-tree file system) support for disabling copy-on-write on a per-file basis > using chattr; faster Btrfs fsync(); a new experimental 'perf trace' tool > modeled after strace; support for the TCP Fast Open feature in the server > side; experimental SMBv2 protocol support; stable NFS 4.1 and parallel NFS; > a vxlan tunneling protocol that allows to transfer Layer 2 ethernet packets > over UDP; and support for the Intel SMAP security feature...and so on and so > on. > > http://kernelnewbies.org/Linux_3.7 > > This make Linux the single most advanced secure/fastest/stablist OS on the > planet. But it will probably be a while before it is incorpoated into all > the stanard distros. Some unofficials hacks attaching the Linix 3.7 to > Debian and then to Ubuntu 12.4 are already being produced but I understand > you would have to do the compile yourself. > > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/MainlineBuilds > > Jim > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From tinanfields at torchlake.com Tue Dec 11 15:12:47 2012 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 16:12:47 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Add Folder to Library In-Reply-To: <50C7973C.11200.41DE08DF@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <50C76AFB.90500@torchlake.com>, <50C7973C.11200.41DE08DF@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <50C7A1CF.90305@torchlake.com> Terrific! Thanks, Stuart! T Tina Norris Fields tinanfields at torchlake.com 231-322-2787 On 12/11/2012 3:27 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > Rigth click on Libraries | Documents.adn select properties. You get a window that lets you > add directories. > From tinanfields at torchlake.com Tue Dec 11 15:13:43 2012 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 16:13:43 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Add Folder to Library In-Reply-To: References: <50C76AFB.90500@torchlake.com> Message-ID: <50C7A207.70704@torchlake.com> Ah well, sorry. It seems that Stuart has found it, though. T Tina Norris Fields tinanfields at torchlake.com 231-322-2787 On 12/11/2012 3:03 PM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > Not what I was looking for, but I'll play around some more. What I want to > achieve is this: I have several external hard disks and thumb drives, all > containing documents in some of their folders. I want these particular > folders to appear under Libraries | Documents > > A. > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Tue Dec 11 19:08:22 2012 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 20:08:22 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Add Folder to Library In-Reply-To: <50C7A207.70704@torchlake.com> References: <50C76AFB.90500@torchlake.com> <50C7A207.70704@torchlake.com> Message-ID: Thanks, Stuart. Just what I wanted. On Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 4:13 PM, Tina Norris Fields < tinanfields at torchlake.com> wrote: > Ah well, sorry. It seems that Stuart has found it, though. > > T > > Tina Norris Fields > tinanfields at torchlake.com > 231-322-2787 > > On 12/11/2012 3:03 PM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > >> Not what I was looking for, but I'll play around some more. What I want to >> achieve is this: I have several external hard disks and thumb drives, all >> containing documents in some of their folders. I want these particular >> folders to appear under Libraries | Documents >> >> A. >> ______________________________**_________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com >> >> > ______________________________**_________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/**mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.**com > -- Arthur Cell: 647.710.1314 Prediction is difficult, especially of the future. -- Niels Bohr From hans.andersen at phulse.com Thu Dec 13 03:18:15 2012 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 01:18:15 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] Internet Explorer Data Leakage (versions 6 to 10) In-Reply-To: <50C7973C.11200.41DE08DF@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <50C76AFB.90500@torchlake.com>, <50C7973C.11200.41DE08DF@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <79C0C209-EDDE-4DC0-BDF1-14645D12B5AA@phulse.com> http://spider.io/blog/2012/12/internet-explorer-data-leakage/ This is a pretty severe security issue. All it takes is a little bit of javascript on any site you visit and they are able to fully track where your mouse is on your screen (even when IE is minimized). All versions of IE are vulnerable to this starting from IE 6. It's already being exploited in the wild. There is a demo included as a link, if you want to test this out yourself. - Hans Excerpt from link: _______________ "On the 1st of October, 2012, we disclosed to Microsoft the following security vulnerability in Internet Explorer, versions 6?10, which allows your mouse cursor to be tracked anywhere on the screen?even if the Internet Explorer window is minimised. The vulnerability is particularly troubling because it compromises the security of virtual keyboards and virtual keypads. The motivation for using a virtual keyboard is typically that it reduces the chance of a keylogger recording one?s keypresses and thereby compromising one?s passwords or credit card details. (c.f. bit.ly/YnNBYE; bit.ly/VpapWf) Whilst the Microsoft Security Research Center has acknowledged the vulnerability in Internet Explorer, they have also stated that there are no immediate plans to patch this vulnerability in existing versions of the browser. It is important for users of Internet Explorer to be made aware of this vulnerability and its implications. The vulnerability is already being exploited by at least two display ad analytics companies across billions of page impressions per month." From marklbreen at gmail.com Thu Dec 13 06:05:17 2012 From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 12:05:17 +0000 Subject: [dba-Tech] How to get Dropbox to run when Windows Server 2008 R2 is not logged in Message-ID: Hello All, I use Dropbox on a few machines now as an off site backup. It works well most of the time. I pay $238 to have 100 GB available which is great value IMO. It have installed it on Win 2008 R2 and it also works well as long as a user is logged in. It even works if the user is remote desktopped in, however it does not work if nobody is logged in. I have found pages and pages of stuff about how to convert it to a service, but I cannot get it to work. I even sent a request to DB but they sent me an email a week later to say they were inundated with support requests and would not be dealing with it now. Has anyone any experience of using Dropbox on a server? If not, what are you using for your server off site backups to cloud solutions ? thanks Mark From gustav at cactus.dk Thu Dec 13 06:53:43 2012 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 13:53:43 +0100 Subject: [dba-Tech] How to get Dropbox to run when Windows Server 2008 R2 is not logged in In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <006201cdd930$e25e7070$a71b5150$@cactus.dk> Hi Mark Our costs for storing about 70 GB with about 15 GB datatransfer each month are about USD 12 to Amazon (variable) and USD 2 to Jungle Disk (fixed). In total, less than USD 15 each month. I have set up a separate machine - a retired 2003 server - configured with auto-logon using a restricted backup user account to control all sorts of non-first-level backup. Thus, it is able to run the Jungle Disk client. It allows bandwidth usage to be limited during office hours to leave amble bandwidth to my dear colleagues. You should be able to establish a similar setup. /gustav -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Mark Breen Sendt: 13. december 2012 13:05 Til: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Emne: [dba-Tech] How to get Dropbox to run when Windows Server 2008 R2 is not logged in Hello All, I use Dropbox on a few machines now as an off site backup. It works well most of the time. I pay $238 to have 100 GB available which is great value IMO. It have installed it on Win 2008 R2 and it also works well as long as a user is logged in. It even works if the user is remote desktopped in, however it does not work if nobody is logged in. I have found pages and pages of stuff about how to convert it to a service, but I cannot get it to work. I even sent a request to DB but they sent me an email a week later to say they were inundated with support requests and would not be dealing with it now. Has anyone any experience of using Dropbox on a server? If not, what are you using for your server off site backups to cloud solutions ? thanks Mark From tinanfields at torchlake.com Thu Dec 13 09:43:21 2012 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 10:43:21 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Internet Explorer Data Leakage (versions 6 to 10) In-Reply-To: <79C0C209-EDDE-4DC0-BDF1-14645D12B5AA@phulse.com> References: , <50C76AFB.90500@torchlake.com>, <50C7973C.11200.41DE08DF@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <79C0C209-EDDE-4DC0-BDF1-14645D12B5AA@phulse.com> Message-ID: <50C9F799.7030400@torchlake.com> Holy Toledo! Thanks, Hans-Christian, for posting this. T Tina Norris Fields tinanfields at torchlake.com 231-322-2787 On 12/13/2012 4:18 AM, Hans-Christian Andersen wrote: > http://spider.io/blog/2012/12/internet-explorer-data-leakage/ > > This is a pretty severe security issue. All it takes is a little bit of javascript on any site you visit and they are able to fully track where your mouse is on your screen (even when IE is minimized). All versions of IE are vulnerable to this starting from IE 6. It's already being exploited in the wild. > > There is a demo included as a link, if you want to test this out yourself. > > - Hans > > > Excerpt from link: > _______________ > > "On the 1st of October, 2012, we disclosed to Microsoft the following security vulnerability in Internet Explorer, versions 6?10, which allows your mouse cursor to be tracked anywhere on the screen?even if the Internet Explorer window is minimised. The vulnerability is particularly troubling because it compromises the security of virtual keyboards and virtual keypads. > > The motivation for using a virtual keyboard is typically that it reduces the chance of a keylogger recording one?s keypresses and thereby compromising one?s passwords or credit card details. (c.f. bit.ly/YnNBYE; bit.ly/VpapWf) > > Whilst the Microsoft Security Research Center has acknowledged the vulnerability in Internet Explorer, they have also stated that there are no immediate plans to patch this vulnerability in existing versions of the browser. It is important for users of Internet Explorer to be made aware of this vulnerability and its implications. > > The vulnerability is already being exploited by at least two display ad analytics companies across billions of page impressions per month." > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From peter.brawley at earthlink.net Thu Dec 13 10:29:15 2012 From: peter.brawley at earthlink.net (Peter Brawley) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 10:29:15 -0600 Subject: [dba-Tech] Internet Explorer Data Leakage (versions 6 to 10) In-Reply-To: <50C9F799.7030400@torchlake.com> References: , <50C76AFB.90500@torchlake.com>, <50C7973C.11200.41DE08DF@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <79C0C209-EDDE-4DC0-BDF1-14645D12B5AA@phulse.com> <50C9F799.7030400@torchlake.com> Message-ID: <50CA025B.8020606@earthlink.net> On 2012-12-13 9:43 AM, Tina Norris Fields wrote: > Holy Toledo! Thanks, Hans-Christian, for posting this. > T > > Tina Norris Fields > tinanfields at torchlake.com > 231-322-2787 > > On 12/13/2012 4:18 AM, Hans-Christian Andersen wrote: >> http://spider.io/blog/2012/12/internet-explorer-data-leakage/ >> >> This is a pretty severe security issue. All it takes is a little bit >> of javascript on any site you visit and they are able to fully track >> where your mouse is on your screen (even when IE is minimized). All >> versions of IE are vulnerable to this starting from IE 6. It's >> already being exploited in the wild. >> >> There is a demo included as a link, if you want to test this out >> yourself. No thx, but why's anyone still using IE? PB ----- >> >> - Hans >> >> >> Excerpt from link: >> _______________ >> >> "On the 1st of October, 2012, we disclosed to Microsoft the following >> security vulnerability in Internet Explorer, versions 6?10, which >> allows your mouse cursor to be tracked anywhere on the screen?even if >> the Internet Explorer window is minimised. The vulnerability is >> particularly troubling because it compromises the security of virtual >> keyboards and virtual keypads. >> >> The motivation for using a virtual keyboard is typically that it >> reduces the chance of a keylogger recording one?s keypresses and >> thereby compromising one?s passwords or credit card details. (c.f. >> bit.ly/YnNBYE; bit.ly/VpapWf) >> >> Whilst the Microsoft Security Research Center has acknowledged the >> vulnerability in Internet Explorer, they have also stated that there >> are no immediate plans to patch this vulnerability in existing >> versions of the browser. It is important for users of Internet >> Explorer to be made aware of this vulnerability and its implications. >> >> The vulnerability is already being exploited by at least two display >> ad analytics companies across billions of page impressions per month." >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From tinanfields at torchlake.com Thu Dec 13 10:49:14 2012 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 11:49:14 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Internet Explorer Data Leakage (versions 6 to 10) In-Reply-To: <50CA025B.8020606@earthlink.net> References: , <50C76AFB.90500@torchlake.com>, <50C7973C.11200.41DE08DF@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <79C0C209-EDDE-4DC0-BDF1-14645D12B5AA@phulse.com> <50C9F799.7030400@torchlake.com> <50CA025B.8020606@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <50CA070A.8080201@torchlake.com> Hi Peter, Can't respond for anybody else, but I use it where I have to. For instance, the university where I'm an online adjunct prof is an IE house - even though sometimes the version of Blackboard we're using doesn't get along well with IE, and then I have to switch over to Chrome (which works better than Firefox on the university site). So, in my case, anyway, it's because some sites require it. Now, I know not to leave it open when I'm not using it. Best, T Tina Norris Fields tinanfields at torchlake.com 231-322-2787 On 12/13/2012 11:29 AM, Peter Brawley wrote: No thx, but why's anyone still using IE? PB From hans.andersen at phulse.com Thu Dec 13 11:03:29 2012 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 09:03:29 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] Internet Explorer Data Leakage (versions 6 to 10) In-Reply-To: <50CA025B.8020606@earthlink.net> References: <50C76AFB.90500@torchlake.com> <50C7973C.11200.41DE08DF@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <79C0C209-EDDE-4DC0-BDF1-14645D12B5AA@phulse.com> <50C9F799.7030400@torchlake.com> <50CA025B.8020606@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4EC56887-D9A5-4EE3-8A5E-A98AC19C0DD5@phulse.com> Judging by recent statistics, still a large percentage of the world uses IE. What might be interesting as well is if this vulnerability affects IE in Windows 8's Metro-land. Best regards, Hans-Christian Andersen On 13 Dec 2012, at 08:29, Peter Brawley wrote: > On 2012-12-13 9:43 AM, Tina Norris Fields wrote: >> Holy Toledo! Thanks, Hans-Christian, for posting this. >> T >> >> Tina Norris Fields >> tinanfields at torchlake.com >> 231-322-2787 >> >> On 12/13/2012 4:18 AM, Hans-Christian Andersen wrote: >>> http://spider.io/blog/2012/12/internet-explorer-data-leakage/ >>> >>> This is a pretty severe security issue. All it takes is a little bit of javascript on any site you visit and they are able to fully track where your mouse is on your screen (even when IE is minimized). All versions of IE are vulnerable to this starting from IE 6. It's already being exploited in the wild. >>> >>> There is a demo included as a link, if you want to test this out yourself. > > No thx, but why's anyone still using IE? > > PB > > ----- > >>> >>> - Hans >>> >>> >>> Excerpt from link: >>> _______________ >>> >>> "On the 1st of October, 2012, we disclosed to Microsoft the following security vulnerability in Internet Explorer, versions 6?10, which allows your mouse cursor to be tracked anywhere on the screen?even if the Internet Explorer window is minimised. The vulnerability is particularly troubling because it compromises the security of virtual keyboards and virtual keypads. >>> >>> The motivation for using a virtual keyboard is typically that it reduces the chance of a keylogger recording one?s keypresses and thereby compromising one?s passwords or credit card details. (c.f. bit.ly/YnNBYE; bit.ly/VpapWf) >>> >>> Whilst the Microsoft Security Research Center has acknowledged the vulnerability in Internet Explorer, they have also stated that there are no immediate plans to patch this vulnerability in existing versions of the browser. It is important for users of Internet Explorer to be made aware of this vulnerability and its implications. >>> >>> The vulnerability is already being exploited by at least two display ad analytics companies across billions of page impressions per month." >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> dba-Tech mailing list >>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Dec 13 13:19:27 2012 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 11:19:27 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] AV on a server Message-ID: <31B2BB117ED54E5CA3C39DFB34ED03A1@HAL9007> Question arose at customer site that I hadn't thought about before. Any reason to put AV on the server? Most virii are coming from email or web sites and if you're not doing email or browsing on the server, should you AV anyway? TIA Rocky From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Dec 13 14:32:32 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 12:32:32 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] Internet Explorer Data Leakage (versions 6 to 10) In-Reply-To: <79C0C209-EDDE-4DC0-BDF1-14645D12B5AA@phulse.com> References: , <50C76AFB.90500@torchlake.com>, <50C7973C.11200.41DE08DF@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <79C0C209-EDDE-4DC0-BDF1-14645D12B5AA@phulse.com> Message-ID: <4F3237E9D0864BAD848E001A3BAB363C@creativesystemdesigns.com> You mean this demo? Exploit Demo
These type of compromise should be out there so everyone knows them, as rest assured, every person in the malware business is already fully versed in this exploit. Really it is only four to five lines of code and not particularly difficult code. You would have to add an AJAX piece of code collect the positions remotely of course but that would also be less than ten lines of additional code; four lines if you have attached the JQuery library. The choice now is either stop using all tablets and Smartphones or stop using IE until a universal fix is built and distributed. Better safe than sorry. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian Andersen Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 1:18 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: [dba-Tech] Internet Explorer Data Leakage (versions 6 to 10) http://spider.io/blog/2012/12/internet-explorer-data-leakage/ This is a pretty severe security issue. All it takes is a little bit of javascript on any site you visit and they are able to fully track where your mouse is on your screen (even when IE is minimized). All versions of IE are vulnerable to this starting from IE 6. It's already being exploited in the wild. There is a demo included as a link, if you want to test this out yourself. - Hans Excerpt from link: _______________ "On the 1st of October, 2012, we disclosed to Microsoft the following security vulnerability in Internet Explorer, versions 6-10, which allows your mouse cursor to be tracked anywhere on the screen-even if the Internet Explorer window is minimised. The vulnerability is particularly troubling because it compromises the security of virtual keyboards and virtual keypads. The motivation for using a virtual keyboard is typically that it reduces the chance of a keylogger recording one's keypresses and thereby compromising one's passwords or credit card details. (c.f. bit.ly/YnNBYE; bit.ly/VpapWf) Whilst the Microsoft Security Research Center has acknowledged the vulnerability in Internet Explorer, they have also stated that there are no immediate plans to patch this vulnerability in existing versions of the browser. It is important for users of Internet Explorer to be made aware of this vulnerability and its implications. The vulnerability is already being exploited by at least two display ad analytics companies across billions of page impressions per month." _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From hans.andersen at phulse.com Thu Dec 13 14:36:33 2012 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 12:36:33 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] Internet Explorer Data Leakage (versions 6 to 10) In-Reply-To: <4F3237E9D0864BAD848E001A3BAB363C@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: , <50C76AFB.90500@torchlake.com>, <50C7973C.11200.41DE08DF@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <79C0C209-EDDE-4DC0-BDF1-14645D12B5AA@phulse.com> <4F3237E9D0864BAD848E001A3BAB363C@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <54018BEA-7B03-45AD-A420-04CF3C1C4815@phulse.com> > The choice now is either stop using all tablets and Smartphones or stop > using IE until a universal fix is built and distributed. Better safe than > sorry. All tablets and smartphones? - Hans On 2012-12-13, at 12:32 PM, "Jim Lawrence" wrote: > You mean this demo? > > > > > > Exploit Demo > > > >
> > > > These type of compromise should be out there so everyone knows them, as rest > assured, every person in the malware business is already fully versed in > this exploit. Really it is only four to five lines of code and not > particularly difficult code. You would have to add an AJAX piece of code > collect the positions remotely of course but that would also be less than > ten lines of additional code; four lines if you have attached the JQuery > library. > > The choice now is either stop using all tablets and Smartphones or stop > using IE until a universal fix is built and distributed. Better safe than > sorry. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian > Andersen > Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 1:18 AM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: [dba-Tech] Internet Explorer Data Leakage (versions 6 to 10) > > > http://spider.io/blog/2012/12/internet-explorer-data-leakage/ > > This is a pretty severe security issue. All it takes is a little bit of > javascript on any site you visit and they are able to fully track where your > mouse is on your screen (even when IE is minimized). All versions of IE are > vulnerable to this starting from IE 6. It's already being exploited in the > wild. > > There is a demo included as a link, if you want to test this out yourself. > > - Hans > > > Excerpt from link: > _______________ > > "On the 1st of October, 2012, we disclosed to Microsoft the following > security vulnerability in Internet Explorer, versions 6-10, which allows > your mouse cursor to be tracked anywhere on the screen-even if the Internet > Explorer window is minimised. The vulnerability is particularly troubling > because it compromises the security of virtual keyboards and virtual > keypads. > > The motivation for using a virtual keyboard is typically that it reduces the > chance of a keylogger recording one's keypresses and thereby compromising > one's passwords or credit card details. (c.f. bit.ly/YnNBYE; bit.ly/VpapWf) > > Whilst the Microsoft Security Research Center has acknowledged the > vulnerability in Internet Explorer, they have also stated that there are no > immediate plans to patch this vulnerability in existing versions of the > browser. It is important for users of Internet Explorer to be made aware of > this vulnerability and its implications. > > The vulnerability is already being exploited by at least two display ad > analytics companies across billions of page impressions per month." > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Dec 13 14:58:37 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 12:58:37 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] Internet Explorer Data Leakage (versions 6 to 10) In-Reply-To: <54018BEA-7B03-45AD-A420-04CF3C1C4815@phulse.com> References: , <50C76AFB.90500@torchlake.com>, <50C7973C.11200.41DE08DF@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><79C0C209-EDDE-4DC0-BDF1-14645D12B5AA@phulse.com><4F3237E9D0864BAD848E001A3BAB363C@creativesystemdesigns.com> <54018BEA-7B03-45AD-A420-04CF3C1C4815@phulse.com> Message-ID: <6DB5ABA49D3C463F9DDEB8804C9520E5@creativesystemdesigns.com> I am being facetious. Only if you are running IE as your browser. One question comes to mind; Can you use any other browser than IE on the new Win8 product line? Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian Andersen Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 12:37 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Internet Explorer Data Leakage (versions 6 to 10) > The choice now is either stop using all tablets and Smartphones or stop > using IE until a universal fix is built and distributed. Better safe than > sorry. All tablets and smartphones? - Hans On 2012-12-13, at 12:32 PM, "Jim Lawrence" wrote: > You mean this demo? > > > > > > Exploit Demo > > > >
> > > > These type of compromise should be out there so everyone knows them, as rest > assured, every person in the malware business is already fully versed in > this exploit. Really it is only four to five lines of code and not > particularly difficult code. You would have to add an AJAX piece of code > collect the positions remotely of course but that would also be less than > ten lines of additional code; four lines if you have attached the JQuery > library. > > The choice now is either stop using all tablets and Smartphones or stop > using IE until a universal fix is built and distributed. Better safe than > sorry. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian > Andersen > Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 1:18 AM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: [dba-Tech] Internet Explorer Data Leakage (versions 6 to 10) > > > http://spider.io/blog/2012/12/internet-explorer-data-leakage/ > > This is a pretty severe security issue. All it takes is a little bit of > javascript on any site you visit and they are able to fully track where your > mouse is on your screen (even when IE is minimized). All versions of IE are > vulnerable to this starting from IE 6. It's already being exploited in the > wild. > > There is a demo included as a link, if you want to test this out yourself. > > - Hans > > > Excerpt from link: > _______________ > > "On the 1st of October, 2012, we disclosed to Microsoft the following > security vulnerability in Internet Explorer, versions 6-10, which allows > your mouse cursor to be tracked anywhere on the screen-even if the Internet > Explorer window is minimised. The vulnerability is particularly troubling > because it compromises the security of virtual keyboards and virtual > keypads. > > The motivation for using a virtual keyboard is typically that it reduces the > chance of a keylogger recording one's keypresses and thereby compromising > one's passwords or credit card details. (c.f. bit.ly/YnNBYE; bit.ly/VpapWf) > > Whilst the Microsoft Security Research Center has acknowledged the > vulnerability in Internet Explorer, they have also stated that there are no > immediate plans to patch this vulnerability in existing versions of the > browser. It is important for users of Internet Explorer to be made aware of > this vulnerability and its implications. > > The vulnerability is already being exploited by at least two display ad > analytics companies across billions of page impressions per month." > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From hans.andersen at phulse.com Thu Dec 13 15:20:05 2012 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 13:20:05 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] Internet Explorer Data Leakage (versions 6 to 10) In-Reply-To: <6DB5ABA49D3C463F9DDEB8804C9520E5@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: , <50C76AFB.90500@torchlake.com>, <50C7973C.11200.41DE08DF@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><79C0C209-EDDE-4DC0-BDF1-14645D12B5AA@phulse.com><4F3237E9D0864BAD848E001A3BAB363C@creativesystemdesigns.com> <54018BEA-7B03-45AD-A420-04CF3C1C4815@phulse.com> <6DB5ABA49D3C463F9DDEB8804C9520E5@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <7A8C4278-6C9F-474F-8141-52E1D22EB803@phulse.com> You can if you exit the Metro interface and run it as a desktop application. As far as browsers go while in Metro, you only get IE. This, of course, means that you are not able to run anything other than IE on any Surface tablets running Windows RT. - Hans On 2012-12-13, at 12:58 PM, "Jim Lawrence" wrote: > I am being facetious. > > Only if you are running IE as your browser. One question comes to mind; Can > you use any other browser than IE on the new Win8 product line? > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian > Andersen > Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 12:37 PM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Internet Explorer Data Leakage (versions 6 to 10) > > >> The choice now is either stop using all tablets and Smartphones or stop >> using IE until a universal fix is built and distributed. Better safe than >> sorry. > > All tablets and smartphones? > > - Hans > > > > On 2012-12-13, at 12:32 PM, "Jim Lawrence" wrote: > >> You mean this demo? >> >> >> >> >> >> Exploit Demo >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> These type of compromise should be out there so everyone knows them, as > rest >> assured, every person in the malware business is already fully versed in >> this exploit. Really it is only four to five lines of code and not >> particularly difficult code. You would have to add an AJAX piece of code >> collect the positions remotely of course but that would also be less than >> ten lines of additional code; four lines if you have attached the JQuery >> library. >> >> The choice now is either stop using all tablets and Smartphones or stop >> using IE until a universal fix is built and distributed. Better safe than >> sorry. >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian >> Andersen >> Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 1:18 AM >> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues >> Subject: [dba-Tech] Internet Explorer Data Leakage (versions 6 to 10) >> >> >> http://spider.io/blog/2012/12/internet-explorer-data-leakage/ >> >> This is a pretty severe security issue. All it takes is a little bit of >> javascript on any site you visit and they are able to fully track where > your >> mouse is on your screen (even when IE is minimized). All versions of IE > are >> vulnerable to this starting from IE 6. It's already being exploited in the >> wild. >> >> There is a demo included as a link, if you want to test this out yourself. >> >> - Hans >> >> >> Excerpt from link: >> _______________ >> >> "On the 1st of October, 2012, we disclosed to Microsoft the following >> security vulnerability in Internet Explorer, versions 6-10, which allows >> your mouse cursor to be tracked anywhere on the screen-even if the > Internet >> Explorer window is minimised. The vulnerability is particularly troubling >> because it compromises the security of virtual keyboards and virtual >> keypads. >> >> The motivation for using a virtual keyboard is typically that it reduces > the >> chance of a keylogger recording one's keypresses and thereby compromising >> one's passwords or credit card details. (c.f. bit.ly/YnNBYE; > bit.ly/VpapWf) >> >> Whilst the Microsoft Security Research Center has acknowledged the >> vulnerability in Internet Explorer, they have also stated that there are > no >> immediate plans to patch this vulnerability in existing versions of the >> browser. It is important for users of Internet Explorer to be made aware > of >> this vulnerability and its implications. >> >> The vulnerability is already being exploited by at least two display ad >> analytics companies across billions of page impressions per month." >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Thu Dec 13 15:33:00 2012 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 15:33:00 -0600 Subject: [dba-Tech] Internet Explorer Data Leakage (versions 6 to 10) In-Reply-To: <79C0C209-EDDE-4DC0-BDF1-14645D12B5AA@phulse.com> References: , <50C76AFB.90500@torchlake.com>, <50C7973C.11200.41DE08DF@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <79C0C209-EDDE-4DC0-BDF1-14645D12B5AA@phulse.com> Message-ID: <01ec01cdd979$6d2a4790$477ed6b0$@winhaven.net> Does this affect IE10? -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian Andersen Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 3:18 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: [dba-Tech] Internet Explorer Data Leakage (versions 6 to 10) http://spider.io/blog/2012/12/internet-explorer-data-leakage/ This is a pretty severe security issue. All it takes is a little bit of javascript on any site you visit and they are able to fully track where your mouse is on your screen (even when IE is minimized). All versions of IE are vulnerable to this starting from IE 6. It's already being exploited in the wild. There is a demo included as a link, if you want to test this out yourself. - Hans Excerpt from link: _______________ "On the 1st of October, 2012, we disclosed to Microsoft the following security vulnerability in Internet Explorer, versions 6-10, which allows your mouse cursor to be tracked anywhere on the screen-even if the Internet Explorer window is minimised. The vulnerability is particularly troubling because it compromises the security of virtual keyboards and virtual keypads. The motivation for using a virtual keyboard is typically that it reduces the chance of a keylogger recording one's keypresses and thereby compromising one's passwords or credit card details. (c.f. bit.ly/YnNBYE; bit.ly/VpapWf) Whilst the Microsoft Security Research Center has acknowledged the vulnerability in Internet Explorer, they have also stated that there are no immediate plans to patch this vulnerability in existing versions of the browser. It is important for users of Internet Explorer to be made aware of this vulnerability and its implications. The vulnerability is already being exploited by at least two display ad analytics companies across billions of page impressions per month." _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From hans.andersen at phulse.com Thu Dec 13 15:36:28 2012 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 13:36:28 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] Internet Explorer Data Leakage (versions 6 to 10) In-Reply-To: <01ec01cdd979$6d2a4790$477ed6b0$@winhaven.net> References: , <50C76AFB.90500@torchlake.com>, <50C7973C.11200.41DE08DF@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <79C0C209-EDDE-4DC0-BDF1-14645D12B5AA@phulse.com> <01ec01cdd979$6d2a4790$477ed6b0$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: According to the article, it affects IE 10 as well as all previous versions of IE starting from IE 6. - Hans On 2012-12-13, at 1:33 PM, "John Bartow" wrote: > Does this affect IE10? > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian > Andersen > Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 3:18 AM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: [dba-Tech] Internet Explorer Data Leakage (versions 6 to 10) > > > http://spider.io/blog/2012/12/internet-explorer-data-leakage/ > > This is a pretty severe security issue. All it takes is a little bit of > javascript on any site you visit and they are able to fully track where your > mouse is on your screen (even when IE is minimized). All versions of IE are > vulnerable to this starting from IE 6. It's already being exploited in the > wild. > > There is a demo included as a link, if you want to test this out yourself. > > - Hans > > > Excerpt from link: > _______________ > > "On the 1st of October, 2012, we disclosed to Microsoft the following > security vulnerability in Internet Explorer, versions 6-10, which allows > your mouse cursor to be tracked anywhere on the screen-even if the Internet > Explorer window is minimised. The vulnerability is particularly troubling > because it compromises the security of virtual keyboards and virtual > keypads. > > The motivation for using a virtual keyboard is typically that it reduces the > chance of a keylogger recording one's keypresses and thereby compromising > one's passwords or credit card details. (c.f. bit.ly/YnNBYE; bit.ly/VpapWf) > > Whilst the Microsoft Security Research Center has acknowledged the > vulnerability in Internet Explorer, they have also stated that there are no > immediate plans to patch this vulnerability in existing versions of the > browser. It is important for users of Internet Explorer to be made aware of > this vulnerability and its implications. > > The vulnerability is already being exploited by at least two display ad > analytics companies across billions of page impressions per month." > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Thu Dec 13 15:38:00 2012 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 15:38:00 -0600 Subject: [dba-Tech] AV on a server In-Reply-To: <31B2BB117ED54E5CA3C39DFB34ED03A1@HAL9007> References: <31B2BB117ED54E5CA3C39DFB34ED03A1@HAL9007> Message-ID: <01ed01cdd97a$20cee580$626cb080$@winhaven.net> Yes -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 1:19 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'; List Subject: [dba-Tech] AV on a server Question arose at customer site that I hadn't thought about before. Any reason to put AV on the server? Most virii are coming from email or web sites and if you're not doing email or browsing on the server, should you AV anyway? TIA Rocky _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Thu Dec 13 15:53:22 2012 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 15:53:22 -0600 Subject: [dba-Tech] Internet Explorer Data Leakage (versions 6 to 10) In-Reply-To: References: , <50C76AFB.90500@torchlake.com>, <50C7973C.11200.41DE08DF@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <79C0C209-EDDE-4DC0-BDF1-14645D12B5AA@phulse.com> <01ec01cdd979$6d2a4790$477ed6b0$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <01f701cdd97c$45cdcde0$d16969a0$@winhaven.net> Good grief. Well, no, bad grief. Sometimes you just have to wonder what the MS IE team is thinking. Does it affect any other browser? -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian Andersen Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 3:36 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Internet Explorer Data Leakage (versions 6 to 10) According to the article, it affects IE 10 as well as all previous versions of IE starting from IE 6. - Hans On 2012-12-13, at 1:33 PM, "John Bartow" wrote: > Does this affect IE10? > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Hans-Christian Andersen > Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 3:18 AM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: [dba-Tech] Internet Explorer Data Leakage (versions 6 to 10) > > > http://spider.io/blog/2012/12/internet-explorer-data-leakage/ > > This is a pretty severe security issue. All it takes is a little bit > of javascript on any site you visit and they are able to fully track > where your mouse is on your screen (even when IE is minimized). All > versions of IE are vulnerable to this starting from IE 6. It's already > being exploited in the wild. > > There is a demo included as a link, if you want to test this out yourself. > > - Hans > > > Excerpt from link: > _______________ > > "On the 1st of October, 2012, we disclosed to Microsoft the following > security vulnerability in Internet Explorer, versions 6-10, which > allows your mouse cursor to be tracked anywhere on the screen-even if > the Internet Explorer window is minimised. The vulnerability is > particularly troubling because it compromises the security of virtual > keyboards and virtual keypads. > > The motivation for using a virtual keyboard is typically that it > reduces the chance of a keylogger recording one's keypresses and > thereby compromising one's passwords or credit card details. (c.f. > bit.ly/YnNBYE; bit.ly/VpapWf) > > Whilst the Microsoft Security Research Center has acknowledged the > vulnerability in Internet Explorer, they have also stated that there > are no immediate plans to patch this vulnerability in existing > versions of the browser. It is important for users of Internet > Explorer to be made aware of this vulnerability and its implications. > > The vulnerability is already being exploited by at least two display > ad analytics companies across billions of page impressions per month." > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Dec 13 16:17:16 2012 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 02:17:16 +0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] =?utf-8?q?Internet_Explorer_Data_Leakage_=28versions_6?= =?utf-8?q?_to_10=29?= In-Reply-To: <7A8C4278-6C9F-474F-8141-52E1D22EB803@phulse.com> References: <6DB5ABA49D3C463F9DDEB8804C9520E5@creativesystemdesigns.com> <7A8C4278-6C9F-474F-8141-52E1D22EB803@phulse.com> Message-ID: <1355437036.503131980@f198.mail.ru> Hi Hans and Jim -- You can get from Win8 AppStore a free "Google Search" app developed by Google and run it in Win8 Metro interface. It probably has IE browser control embedded but anyway - it's a Google product. And you can use sixteen main Google apps right within "Google Search" Metro interface: Gmail, Calendar, Drive, Maps, Images, ... Also you can install Google Chrome - the link to its setup is present on MS App Store site - and use it in desktop mode as the main browser. I do use it that way.? I'm using IE from time to time too on Win8 and so far I haven't seen any issues... And I have been using IE on my WinPhone 7.5 for more than an year - no problems... Thank you. -- Shamil? ???????, 13 ??????? 2012, 13:20 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen : > >You can if you exit the Metro interface and run it as a desktop application. As far as browsers go while in Metro, you only get IE. > >This, of course, means that you are not able to run anything other than IE on any Surface tablets running Windows RT. > >- Hans > > > >On 2012-12-13, at 12:58 PM, "Jim Lawrence" < accessd at shaw.ca > wrote: > >> I am being facetious. >> >> Only if you are running IE as your browser. One question comes to mind; Can >> you use any other browser than IE on the new Win8 product line? >> >> Jim >>? From hans.andersen at phulse.com Thu Dec 13 16:34:36 2012 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 14:34:36 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] Internet Explorer Data Leakage (versions 6 to 10) In-Reply-To: <01f701cdd97c$45cdcde0$d16969a0$@winhaven.net> References: , <50C76AFB.90500@torchlake.com>, <50C7973C.11200.41DE08DF@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <79C0C209-EDDE-4DC0-BDF1-14645D12B5AA@phulse.com> <01ec01cdd979$6d2a4790$477ed6b0$@winhaven.net> <01f701cdd97c$45cdcde0$d16969a0$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: I tried it for fun in the 3 main other browsers for fun (Chrome, Safari, Firefox) and it didn't work. And, saying that, it won't affect any other browsers for these 2 reasons: 1. The .fireEvent() method is a Microsoft proprietary bit of javascript. No other browser understands what this means. 2. All the other browsers seem to respect the principle that you should not be able to track the location of the mouse once it leaves the boundaries of the browser window or the window is no longer in focus (ie. minimised). It has been speculated that the reason that IE does this is because it has some deep hooks into the Windows API that other browsers do not and this is also probably why Microsoft appears to be reluctant to fix it (for now). - Hans On 2012-12-13, at 1:53 PM, "John Bartow" wrote: > Good grief. Well, no, bad grief. Sometimes you just have to wonder what the > MS IE team is thinking. > > Does it affect any other browser? > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian > Andersen > Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 3:36 PM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Internet Explorer Data Leakage (versions 6 to 10) > > > According to the article, it affects IE 10 as well as all previous versions > of IE starting from IE 6. > > - Hans > > > > On 2012-12-13, at 1:33 PM, "John Bartow" wrote: > >> Does this affect IE10? >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of >> Hans-Christian Andersen >> Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 3:18 AM >> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues >> Subject: [dba-Tech] Internet Explorer Data Leakage (versions 6 to 10) >> >> >> http://spider.io/blog/2012/12/internet-explorer-data-leakage/ >> >> This is a pretty severe security issue. All it takes is a little bit >> of javascript on any site you visit and they are able to fully track >> where your mouse is on your screen (even when IE is minimized). All >> versions of IE are vulnerable to this starting from IE 6. It's already >> being exploited in the wild. >> >> There is a demo included as a link, if you want to test this out yourself. >> >> - Hans >> >> >> Excerpt from link: >> _______________ >> >> "On the 1st of October, 2012, we disclosed to Microsoft the following >> security vulnerability in Internet Explorer, versions 6-10, which >> allows your mouse cursor to be tracked anywhere on the screen-even if >> the Internet Explorer window is minimised. The vulnerability is >> particularly troubling because it compromises the security of virtual >> keyboards and virtual keypads. >> >> The motivation for using a virtual keyboard is typically that it >> reduces the chance of a keylogger recording one's keypresses and >> thereby compromising one's passwords or credit card details. (c.f. >> bit.ly/YnNBYE; bit.ly/VpapWf) >> >> Whilst the Microsoft Security Research Center has acknowledged the >> vulnerability in Internet Explorer, they have also stated that there >> are no immediate plans to patch this vulnerability in existing >> versions of the browser. It is important for users of Internet >> Explorer to be made aware of this vulnerability and its implications. >> >> The vulnerability is already being exploited by at least two display >> ad analytics companies across billions of page impressions per month." >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From hans.andersen at phulse.com Thu Dec 13 16:51:11 2012 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 14:51:11 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] Internet Explorer Data Leakage (versions 6 to 10) In-Reply-To: <1355437036.503131980@f198.mail.ru> References: <6DB5ABA49D3C463F9DDEB8804C9520E5@creativesystemdesigns.com> <7A8C4278-6C9F-474F-8141-52E1D22EB803@phulse.com> <1355437036.503131980@f198.mail.ru> Message-ID: <7C300C49-904E-4BC1-9325-B9FC076A2DB6@phulse.com> Those aren't quite browser alternatives in Metro-land though, so if you want to avoid IE in Metro, you are out of luck. But, I imagine this might eventually change, since even Chrome is available on the iPhone / iPad, and we are all used to complaining about Apple's walled garden... and that only applies to their mobile platforms. There is no such walled garden on OS X desktop, which makes Microsoft's restrictions on Metro all the more curious, because it affects everyone from tablet to desktop. - Hans On 2012-12-13, at 2:17 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi Hans and Jim -- > > You can get from Win8 AppStore a free "Google Search" app developed by Google and run it in Win8 Metro interface. It probably has IE browser control embedded but anyway - it's a Google product. And you can use sixteen main Google apps right within "Google Search" Metro interface: Gmail, Calendar, Drive, Maps, Images, ... > > Also you can install Google Chrome - the link to its setup is present on MS App Store site - and use it in desktop mode as the main browser. I do use it that way. > > I'm using IE from time to time too on Win8 and so far I haven't seen any issues... > > And I have been using IE on my WinPhone 7.5 for more than an year - no problems... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > > ???????, 13 ??????? 2012, 13:20 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen : >> >> You can if you exit the Metro interface and run it as a desktop application. As far as browsers go while in Metro, you only get IE. >> >> This, of course, means that you are not able to run anything other than IE on any Surface tablets running Windows RT. >> >> - Hans >> >> >> >> On 2012-12-13, at 12:58 PM, "Jim Lawrence" < accessd at shaw.ca > wrote: >> >>> I am being facetious. >>> >>> Only if you are running IE as your browser. One question comes to mind; Can >>> you use any other browser than IE on the new Win8 product line? >>> >>> Jim >>> > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Thu Dec 13 17:17:13 2012 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 03:17:13 +0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] =?utf-8?q?Internet_Explorer_Data_Leakage_=28versions_6?= =?utf-8?q?_to_10=29?= In-Reply-To: <7C300C49-904E-4BC1-9325-B9FC076A2DB6@phulse.com> References: <1355437036.503131980@f198.mail.ru> <7C300C49-904E-4BC1-9325-B9FC076A2DB6@phulse.com> Message-ID: <1355440633.862536870@f306.mail.ru> <<< so if you want to avoid IE in Metro, you are out of luck >>> Hans -- But Google is free to develop and release a full featured Google Chrome Win8 ?Metro style app - and they will probably do that soon. And as I have noted Google has already released a "Google Search" app, which has most of the features and most of the Google apps an average Google Chrome user needs... Thank you. -- Shamil ???????, 13 ??????? 2012, 14:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen : > >Those aren't quite browser alternatives in Metro-land though, so if you want to avoid IE in Metro, you are out of luck. But, I imagine this might eventually change, since even Chrome is available on the iPhone / iPad, and we are all used to complaining about Apple's walled garden... and that only applies to their mobile platforms. There is no such walled garden on OS X desktop, which makes Microsoft's restrictions on Metro all the more curious, because it affects everyone from tablet to desktop. > >- Hans > > >On 2012-12-13, at 2:17 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil < mcp2004 at mail.ru > wrote: > >> Hi Hans and Jim -- >> >> You can get from Win8 AppStore a free "Google Search" app developed by Google and run it in Win8 Metro interface. It probably has IE browser control embedded but anyway - it's a Google product. And you can use sixteen main Google apps right within "Google Search" Metro interface: Gmail, Calendar, Drive, Maps, Images, ... >> >> Also you can install Google Chrome - the link to its setup is present on MS App Store site - and use it in desktop mode as the main browser. I do use it that way. >> >> I'm using IE from time to time too on Win8 and so far I haven't seen any issues... >> >> And I have been using IE on my WinPhone 7.5 for more than an year - no problems... >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- Shamil >> >> >> ???????, 13 ??????? 2012, 13:20 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen < hans.andersen at phulse.com >: >>> >>> You can if you exit the Metro interface and run it as a desktop application. As far as browsers go while in Metro, you only get IE. >>> >>> This, of course, means that you are not able to run anything other than IE on any Surface tablets running Windows RT. >>> >>> - Hans >>> >>> >>> >>> On 2012-12-13, at 12:58 PM, "Jim Lawrence" < accessd at shaw.ca > wrote: >>> >>>> I am being facetious. >>>> >>>> Only if you are running IE as your browser. One question comes to mind; Can >>>> you use any other browser than IE on the new Win8 product line? >>>> >>>> Jim >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >_______________________________________________ >dba-Tech mailing list >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From hans.andersen at phulse.com Thu Dec 13 18:26:05 2012 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 16:26:05 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] Internet Explorer Data Leakage (versions 6 to 10) In-Reply-To: <1355440633.862536870@f306.mail.ru> References: <1355437036.503131980@f198.mail.ru> <7C300C49-904E-4BC1-9325-B9FC076A2DB6@phulse.com> <1355440633.862536870@f306.mail.ru> Message-ID: <7DD9B0F6-5348-4BB3-8C71-79782880FD36@phulse.com> It will surely come. But another issue, if I'm not mistaken, is that they will only work on Intel based Win8. On WinRT, Microsoft restricts access to APIs to the extent that its impossible. Regarding Googles utilities, if the goal is to avoid IE, due to security issues, this isn't much help. Best regards, Hans-Christian Andersen On 13 Dec 2012, at 15:17, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > <<< > so if you want to avoid IE in Metro, you are out of luck > Hans -- > > But Google is free to develop and release a full featured Google Chrome Win8 Metro style app - and they will probably do that soon. > And as I have noted Google has already released a "Google Search" app, which has most of the features and most of the Google apps an average Google Chrome user needs... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > ???????, 13 ??????? 2012, 14:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen : >> >> Those aren't quite browser alternatives in Metro-land though, so if you want to avoid IE in Metro, you are out of luck. But, I imagine this might eventually change, since even Chrome is available on the iPhone / iPad, and we are all used to complaining about Apple's walled garden... and that only applies to their mobile platforms. There is no such walled garden on OS X desktop, which makes Microsoft's restrictions on Metro all the more curious, because it affects everyone from tablet to desktop. >> >> - Hans >> >> >> On 2012-12-13, at 2:17 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil < mcp2004 at mail.ru > wrote: >> >>> Hi Hans and Jim -- >>> >>> You can get from Win8 AppStore a free "Google Search" app developed by Google and run it in Win8 Metro interface. It probably has IE browser control embedded but anyway - it's a Google product. And you can use sixteen main Google apps right within "Google Search" Metro interface: Gmail, Calendar, Drive, Maps, Images, ... >>> >>> Also you can install Google Chrome - the link to its setup is present on MS App Store site - and use it in desktop mode as the main browser. I do use it that way. >>> >>> I'm using IE from time to time too on Win8 and so far I haven't seen any issues... >>> >>> And I have been using IE on my WinPhone 7.5 for more than an year - no problems... >>> >>> Thank you. >>> >>> -- Shamil >>> >>> >>> ???????, 13 ??????? 2012, 13:20 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen < hans.andersen at phulse.com >: >>>> >>>> You can if you exit the Metro interface and run it as a desktop application. As far as browsers go while in Metro, you only get IE. >>>> >>>> This, of course, means that you are not able to run anything other than IE on any Surface tablets running Windows RT. >>>> >>>> - Hans >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 2012-12-13, at 12:58 PM, "Jim Lawrence" < accessd at shaw.ca > wrote: >>>> >>>>> I am being facetious. >>>>> >>>>> Only if you are running IE as your browser. One question comes to mind; Can >>>>> you use any other browser than IE on the new Win8 product line? >>>>> >>>>> Jim >>> _______________________________________________ >>> dba-Tech mailing list >>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Dec 13 19:27:28 2012 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 11:27:28 +1000 Subject: [dba-Tech] WIndows Share In-Reply-To: <7DD9B0F6-5348-4BB3-8C71-79782880FD36@phulse.com> References: , <1355440633.862536870@f306.mail.ru>, <7DD9B0F6-5348-4BB3-8C71-79782880FD36@phulse.com> Message-ID: <50CA8080.14839.4D3D3B41@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Another one to worry the Windows fanbois :-) http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/12/13/windows_market_share_just_20percent/ -- Stuart From peter.brawley at earthlink.net Thu Dec 13 19:54:50 2012 From: peter.brawley at earthlink.net (Peter Brawley) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 19:54:50 -0600 Subject: [dba-Tech] WIndows Share In-Reply-To: <50CA8080.14839.4D3D3B41@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <1355440633.862536870@f306.mail.ru>, <7DD9B0F6-5348-4BB3-8C71-79782880FD36@phulse.com> <50CA8080.14839.4D3D3B41@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <50CA86EA.7000707@earthlink.net> On 2012-12-13 7:27 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > Another one to worry the Windows fanbois :-) > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/12/13/windows_market_share_just_20percent/ I'd like to see the un-normalised version of that chart. PB From hans.andersen at phulse.com Thu Dec 13 20:13:44 2012 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 18:13:44 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] WIndows Share In-Reply-To: <50CA8080.14839.4D3D3B41@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <1355440633.862536870@f306.mail.ru>, <7DD9B0F6-5348-4BB3-8C71-79782880FD36@phulse.com> <50CA8080.14839.4D3D3B41@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <84BC6579-3C32-4C32-AD12-3C22C5F2E3A0@phulse.com> It's an interesting alternative perspective on things. Mobile devices, like smartphones and tablets don't fully replace the function of a desktop computer / laptop (and, yes, the Surface tablet is by no means a replacement, just because it has a $100+ keyboard/touchpad accessory), but I think what we often fail to take into account is what devices have more importance and impact on peoples lives. Most people don't need Visual Studio, after all. Most of their computing needs are fulfilled by their smartphone and increasingly by a tablet. To add to that, us westerners don't appreciate that there may be technologies elsewhere in the world that haven't caught on over here, so we don't factor it in our worldview. One particular example I can think of is Africa, where mobile banking (the ability to manage your money and make direct daily monetary transactions via your cell phone) is huge (http://www.economist.com/node/21553510), but that doesn't exist so much here for whatever reason. Things are very different now than it was a decade ago. - Hans On 2012-12-13, at 5:27 PM, "Stuart McLachlan" wrote: > Another one to worry the Windows fanbois :-) > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/12/13/windows_market_share_just_20percent/ > > -- > Stuart > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Thu Dec 13 20:59:46 2012 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 21:59:46 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] WIndows Share In-Reply-To: <84BC6579-3C32-4C32-AD12-3C22C5F2E3A0@phulse.com> References: <1355440633.862536870@f306.mail.ru> <7DD9B0F6-5348-4BB3-8C71-79782880FD36@phulse.com> <50CA8080.14839.4D3D3B41@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <84BC6579-3C32-4C32-AD12-3C22C5F2E3A0@phulse.com> Message-ID: I agree wholeheartedly with you, H-C. I would estimate that 99.5% of the users -- even of desktops, let alone smartphones and tablets -- have absolutely no interest in knowing how or learning how to write code. Roughly the same percentage of the population that knows or cares to learn how to repair the fuel-injection system in their car. When I started out in computing (circa 1980), almost every user wanted to learn about programming. Every computer sold, regardless of platform, came with at least one programming language. Some remained amateur programmers; some turned pro. Since then, the percentage has steadily dwindled, as the market shifted towards "mere" users. Since I declared myself "semi-retired", one of the first things that I did was to inspect my system. There were at least a couple of dozen programming languages aboard/or database implementations aboard, most of which I installed and then used a few times, perhaps more, mostly for investigative purposes, in a vain attempt to keep abreast. So I made a rule for myself -- if I haven't used something in the past year, lose it. I was astonished at how many items I removed. Hundreds of Gigs were freed up. And on the other side, I've since installed several more "development" tools -- but they are such things as word processors optimized for writing screenplays. I still play around with a few programming languages and databases, but the array of such tools has been reduced by about 90%. I can see a trajectory here. Previously I was thinking of buying a second, much more powerful development machine. Now the only circumstance in which I see that happening is if the current one dies. I'll be spending less and less time working on my desktop and correspondingly more time on a tablet. Also, I feel little or no need to keep up with new smartphones; a stupidphone and a tablet will do the largest chunk of what I need to do. A. From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Dec 13 21:41:08 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 19:41:08 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] Internet Explorer Data Leakage (versions 6 to 10) In-Reply-To: <7A8C4278-6C9F-474F-8141-52E1D22EB803@phulse.com> References: , <50C76AFB.90500@torchlake.com>, <50C7973C.11200.41DE08DF@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><79C0C209-EDDE-4DC0-BDF1-14645D12B5AA@phulse.com><4F3237E9D0864BAD848E001A3BAB363C@creativesystemdesigns.com><54018BEA-7B03-45AD-A420-04CF3C1C4815@phulse.com><6DB5ABA49D3C463F9DDEB8804C9520E5@creativesystemdesigns.com> <7A8C4278-6C9F-474F-8141-52E1D22EB803@phulse.com> Message-ID: Too bad. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian Andersen Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 1:20 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Internet Explorer Data Leakage (versions 6 to 10) You can if you exit the Metro interface and run it as a desktop application. As far as browsers go while in Metro, you only get IE. This, of course, means that you are not able to run anything other than IE on any Surface tablets running Windows RT. - Hans On 2012-12-13, at 12:58 PM, "Jim Lawrence" wrote: > I am being facetious. > > Only if you are running IE as your browser. One question comes to mind; Can > you use any other browser than IE on the new Win8 product line? > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian > Andersen > Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 12:37 PM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Internet Explorer Data Leakage (versions 6 to 10) > > >> The choice now is either stop using all tablets and Smartphones or stop >> using IE until a universal fix is built and distributed. Better safe than >> sorry. > > All tablets and smartphones? > > - Hans > > > > On 2012-12-13, at 12:32 PM, "Jim Lawrence" wrote: > >> You mean this demo? >> >> >> >> >> >> Exploit Demo >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> These type of compromise should be out there so everyone knows them, as > rest >> assured, every person in the malware business is already fully versed in >> this exploit. Really it is only four to five lines of code and not >> particularly difficult code. You would have to add an AJAX piece of code >> collect the positions remotely of course but that would also be less than >> ten lines of additional code; four lines if you have attached the JQuery >> library. >> >> The choice now is either stop using all tablets and Smartphones or stop >> using IE until a universal fix is built and distributed. Better safe than >> sorry. >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian >> Andersen >> Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 1:18 AM >> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues >> Subject: [dba-Tech] Internet Explorer Data Leakage (versions 6 to 10) >> >> >> http://spider.io/blog/2012/12/internet-explorer-data-leakage/ >> >> This is a pretty severe security issue. All it takes is a little bit of >> javascript on any site you visit and they are able to fully track where > your >> mouse is on your screen (even when IE is minimized). All versions of IE > are >> vulnerable to this starting from IE 6. It's already being exploited in the >> wild. >> >> There is a demo included as a link, if you want to test this out yourself. >> >> - Hans >> >> >> Excerpt from link: >> _______________ >> >> "On the 1st of October, 2012, we disclosed to Microsoft the following >> security vulnerability in Internet Explorer, versions 6-10, which allows >> your mouse cursor to be tracked anywhere on the screen-even if the > Internet >> Explorer window is minimised. The vulnerability is particularly troubling >> because it compromises the security of virtual keyboards and virtual >> keypads. >> >> The motivation for using a virtual keyboard is typically that it reduces > the >> chance of a keylogger recording one's keypresses and thereby compromising >> one's passwords or credit card details. (c.f. bit.ly/YnNBYE; > bit.ly/VpapWf) >> >> Whilst the Microsoft Security Research Center has acknowledged the >> vulnerability in Internet Explorer, they have also stated that there are > no >> immediate plans to patch this vulnerability in existing versions of the >> browser. It is important for users of Internet Explorer to be made aware > of >> this vulnerability and its implications. >> >> The vulnerability is already being exploited by at least two display ad >> analytics companies across billions of page impressions per month." >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Dec 13 21:46:20 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 19:46:20 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] Internet Explorer Data Leakage (versions 6 to 10) In-Reply-To: <01ec01cdd979$6d2a4790$477ed6b0$@winhaven.net> References: , <50C76AFB.90500@torchlake.com>, <50C7973C.11200.41DE08DF@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><79C0C209-EDDE-4DC0-BDF1-14645D12B5AA@phulse.com> <01ec01cdd979$6d2a4790$477ed6b0$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <1A000FA2FA0D4213BD48E3B4BD74E45F@creativesystemdesigns.com> Looking at the web site page header seems to suggest that this process only affects IE9 or less or any IE mobile products... but if you can test and post your observations that would be helpful. (I do not run IE.) ... Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 1:33 PM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Internet Explorer Data Leakage (versions 6 to 10) Does this affect IE10? -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian Andersen Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 3:18 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: [dba-Tech] Internet Explorer Data Leakage (versions 6 to 10) http://spider.io/blog/2012/12/internet-explorer-data-leakage/ This is a pretty severe security issue. All it takes is a little bit of javascript on any site you visit and they are able to fully track where your mouse is on your screen (even when IE is minimized). All versions of IE are vulnerable to this starting from IE 6. It's already being exploited in the wild. There is a demo included as a link, if you want to test this out yourself. - Hans Excerpt from link: _______________ "On the 1st of October, 2012, we disclosed to Microsoft the following security vulnerability in Internet Explorer, versions 6-10, which allows your mouse cursor to be tracked anywhere on the screen-even if the Internet Explorer window is minimised. The vulnerability is particularly troubling because it compromises the security of virtual keyboards and virtual keypads. The motivation for using a virtual keyboard is typically that it reduces the chance of a keylogger recording one's keypresses and thereby compromising one's passwords or credit card details. (c.f. bit.ly/YnNBYE; bit.ly/VpapWf) Whilst the Microsoft Security Research Center has acknowledged the vulnerability in Internet Explorer, they have also stated that there are no immediate plans to patch this vulnerability in existing versions of the browser. It is important for users of Internet Explorer to be made aware of this vulnerability and its implications. The vulnerability is already being exploited by at least two display ad analytics companies across billions of page impressions per month." _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Dec 13 21:47:49 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 19:47:49 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] Internet Explorer Data Leakage (versions 6 to 10) In-Reply-To: <1355437036.503131980@f198.mail.ru> References: <6DB5ABA49D3C463F9DDEB8804C9520E5@creativesystemdesigns.com><7A8C4278-6C9F-474F-8141-52E1D22EB803@phulse.com> <1355437036.503131980@f198.mail.ru> Message-ID: <8C104477C4144BA4B051383853312AFB@creativesystemdesigns.com> That's good know. Thanks Shamil. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 2:17 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Internet Explorer Data Leakage (versions 6 to 10) Hi Hans and Jim -- You can get from Win8 AppStore a free "Google Search" app developed by Google and run it in Win8 Metro interface. It probably has IE browser control embedded but anyway - it's a Google product. And you can use sixteen main Google apps right within "Google Search" Metro interface: Gmail, Calendar, Drive, Maps, Images, ... Also you can install Google Chrome - the link to its setup is present on MS App Store site - and use it in desktop mode as the main browser. I do use it that way.? I'm using IE from time to time too on Win8 and so far I haven't seen any issues... And I have been using IE on my WinPhone 7.5 for more than an year - no problems... Thank you. -- Shamil? ???????, 13 ??????? 2012, 13:20 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen : > >You can if you exit the Metro interface and run it as a desktop application. As far as browsers go while in Metro, you only get IE. > >This, of course, means that you are not able to run anything other than IE on any Surface tablets running Windows RT. > >- Hans > > > >On 2012-12-13, at 12:58 PM, "Jim Lawrence" < accessd at shaw.ca > wrote: > >> I am being facetious. >> >> Only if you are running IE as your browser. One question comes to mind; Can >> you use any other browser than IE on the new Win8 product line? >> >> Jim >>? _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Dec 13 22:00:03 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 20:00:03 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] WIndows Share In-Reply-To: <50CA8080.14839.4D3D3B41@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <1355440633.862536870@f306.mail.ru>, <7DD9B0F6-5348-4BB3-8C71-79782880FD36@phulse.com> <50CA8080.14839.4D3D3B41@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <91AF52B1DFEB4D819B56E76D9B6F6D84@creativesystemdesigns.com> Not particularly good for Microsoft but I believe a more diverse market is a very good thing. For any one company to achieve a monopoly or close to it, is bad for innovation and client support. All major players eventually become arrogant and lazy and without another company threatening their existence they become unresponsive and self-righteous. This may be just the wakeup call that MS needs so they will become re-acquainted with their real clients, the ones that pay the bills that keep the lights on. Maybe in the future incidence like the latest IE mistake will be taken seriously. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 5:27 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: [dba-Tech] WIndows Share Another one to worry the Windows fanbois :-) http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/12/13/windows_market_share_just_20percent/ -- Stuart _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Dec 13 22:05:37 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 20:05:37 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] WIndows Share In-Reply-To: <84BC6579-3C32-4C32-AD12-3C22C5F2E3A0@phulse.com> References: , <1355440633.862536870@f306.mail.ru>, <7DD9B0F6-5348-4BB3-8C71-79782880FD36@phulse.com><50CA8080.14839.4D3D3B41@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <84BC6579-3C32-4C32-AD12-3C22C5F2E3A0@phulse.com> Message-ID: <0AF9D19383954392A5DE538D7DCAAE6A@creativesystemdesigns.com> Any process that will circum-navigate big banks and lending institutions is a good thing. There is an expected back-lash to this as you would expect but I see it as a technology whose time has come and in a few years will be a development which has the potential to provide a real alternative. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian Andersen Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 6:14 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] WIndows Share It's an interesting alternative perspective on things. Mobile devices, like smartphones and tablets don't fully replace the function of a desktop computer / laptop (and, yes, the Surface tablet is by no means a replacement, just because it has a $100+ keyboard/touchpad accessory), but I think what we often fail to take into account is what devices have more importance and impact on peoples lives. Most people don't need Visual Studio, after all. Most of their computing needs are fulfilled by their smartphone and increasingly by a tablet. To add to that, us westerners don't appreciate that there may be technologies elsewhere in the world that haven't caught on over here, so we don't factor it in our worldview. One particular example I can think of is Africa, where mobile banking (the ability to manage your money and make direct daily monetary transactions via your cell phone) is huge (http://www.economist.com/node/21553510), but that doesn't exist so much here for whatever reason. Things are very different now than it was a decade ago. - Hans On 2012-12-13, at 5:27 PM, "Stuart McLachlan" wrote: > Another one to worry the Windows fanbois :-) > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/12/13/windows_market_share_just_20percent/ > > -- > Stuart > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Thu Dec 13 22:30:03 2012 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 22:30:03 -0600 Subject: [dba-Tech] Internet Explorer Data Leakage (versions 6 to 10) In-Reply-To: References: , <50C76AFB.90500@torchlake.com>, <50C7973C.11200.41DE08DF@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <79C0C209-EDDE-4DC0-BDF1-14645D12B5AA@phulse.com> <01ec01cdd979$6d2a4790$477ed6b0$@winhaven.net> <01f701cdd97c$45cdcde0$d16969a0$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <025d01cdd9b3$b05a1740$110e45c0$@winhaven.net> -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian Andersen Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 4:35 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Internet Explorer Data Leakage (versions 6 to 10) I tried it for fun in the 3 main other browsers for fun (Chrome, Safari, Firefox) and it didn't work. And, saying that, it won't affect any other browsers for these 2 reasons: [---] Thanks for that. 1. The .fireEvent() method is a Microsoft proprietary bit of javascript. No other browser understands what this means. 2. All the other browsers seem to respect the principle that you should not be able to track the location of the mouse once it leaves the boundaries of the browser window or the window is no longer in focus (ie. minimised). It has been speculated that the reason that IE does this is because it has some deep hooks into the Windows API that other browsers do not and this is also probably why Microsoft appears to be reluctant to fix it (for now). [---] This just begs the question: does this affect IE on a Mac? [---] John B From hans.andersen at phulse.com Thu Dec 13 23:43:20 2012 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 21:43:20 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] Internet Explorer Data Leakage (versions 6 to 10) In-Reply-To: <025d01cdd9b3$b05a1740$110e45c0$@winhaven.net> References: , <50C76AFB.90500@torchlake.com>, <50C7973C.11200.41DE08DF@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <79C0C209-EDDE-4DC0-BDF1-14645D12B5AA@phulse.com> <01ec01cdd979$6d2a4790$477ed6b0$@winhaven.net> <01f701cdd97c$45cdcde0$d16969a0$@winhaven.net> <025d01cdd9b3$b05a1740$110e45c0$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <85CC1A92-5951-47B8-BB58-177DC6C28778@phulse.com> Probably not. It was developed by a different team and doesn't even share the same rendering engine (IE on Mac used the Tasman engine, while IE on Windows has been using the Trident engine since IE 4.0). But, even if it was, IE on Mac has been discontinued since 2003, so if anyone is still using a browser on their Mac that has been dead for a decade, well, they deserve it as much as someone running Windows ME for a good experience. :) Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Explorer_for_Mac - Hans On 2012-12-13, at 8:30 PM, "John Bartow" wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian > Andersen > Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 4:35 PM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Internet Explorer Data Leakage (versions 6 to 10) > > > I tried it for fun in the 3 main other browsers for fun (Chrome, Safari, > Firefox) and it didn't work. And, saying that, it won't affect any other > browsers for these 2 reasons: > [---] Thanks for that. > 1. The .fireEvent() method is a Microsoft proprietary bit of javascript. No > other browser understands what this means. > > 2. All the other browsers seem to respect the principle that you should not > be able to track the location of the mouse once it leaves the boundaries of > the browser window or the window is no longer in focus (ie. minimised). > > It has been speculated that the reason that IE does this is because it has > some deep hooks into the Windows API that other browsers do not and this is > also probably why Microsoft appears to be reluctant to fix it (for now). > [---] This just begs the question: does this affect IE on a Mac? > > [---] John B > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Fri Dec 14 04:57:23 2012 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 14:57:23 +0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] =?utf-8?q?Internet_Explorer_Data_Leakage_=28versions_6?= =?utf-8?q?_to_10=29?= In-Reply-To: <7DD9B0F6-5348-4BB3-8C71-79782880FD36@phulse.com> References: <1355440633.862536870@f306.mail.ru> <7DD9B0F6-5348-4BB3-8C71-79782880FD36@phulse.com> Message-ID: <1355482643.942159767@f13.mail.ru> Hi Hans -- <<< On WinRT, Microsoft restricts access to APIs to the extent that its impossible. >>> Please provide links on information proving that statement. At least for WinRT one can develop apps using HTML5 and JavaScript running within IE instance probably - do you mean WinRT will block external third-parties API/Web services calls even in this case? <<< Regarding Googles utilities, if the goal is to avoid IE, due to security issues, this isn't much help. >>> Do you mean "Google Search" app for WinRT/Win8 uses MS Browser control to render web pages? If Yes, do you have links on information proving that supposition? BTW, I have just installed "Google" app on my WInPhone 7.5 - it's like "Google Search" WinRT app but with more limited interface. Anyway one can type 'Gmail', 'Google Maps', 'Google Translate' ... in the search box and then browse to the Google apps - all within "Google" WinPhone 7.5 application... When one is browsing this web site: http://www.windowsazure.com/en-us/develop/overview/ they see that MS is ready to host via Windows Azure all the mainstream Web technologies - how's that? One can say they are in trouble and so looking for every opportunity to keep their "shrinking developers and users base" but the other one can say they have learned from their past mistakes and they now provide to their developers and users a very wide range of development tools and platforms... I'm not defending MS ?- just wanted to invite you and others here to keep positive attitude... even for Microsoft :) Thank you. -- Shamil ???????, 13 ??????? 2012, 16:26 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen : >It will surely come. But another issue, if I'm not mistaken, is that they will only work on Intel based Win8. On WinRT, Microsoft restricts access to APIs to the extent that its impossible. > >Regarding Googles utilities, if the goal is to avoid IE, due to security issues, this isn't much help. > >Best regards, >Hans-Christian Andersen > > >On 13 Dec 2012, at 15:17, Salakhetdinov Shamil < mcp2004 at mail.ru > wrote: > >> <<< >> so if you want to avoid IE in Metro, you are out of luck >> Hans -- >> >> But Google is free to develop and release a full featured Google Chrome Win8 Metro style app - and they will probably do that soon. >> And as I have noted Google has already released a "Google Search" app, which has most of the features and most of the Google apps an average Google Chrome user needs... >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- Shamil >>? From mcp2004 at mail.ru Fri Dec 14 05:12:14 2012 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 15:12:14 +0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] =?utf-8?q?WIndows_Share?= In-Reply-To: <91AF52B1DFEB4D819B56E76D9B6F6D84@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <50CA8080.14839.4D3D3B41@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <91AF52B1DFEB4D819B56E76D9B6F6D84@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <1355483534.890981388@f164.mail.ru> Hi Jim -- <<< Not particularly good for Microsoft but I believe a more diverse market is a?very good thing. >>> Yes! Good example of positive attitude :) - that "will change the World" not "horselaugh on current MS troubles"... Thank you. -- Shamil ???????, 13 ??????? 2012, 20:00 ?? "Jim Lawrence" : >Not particularly good for Microsoft but I believe a more diverse market is a >very good thing. > >For any one company to achieve a monopoly or close to it, is bad for >innovation and client support. All major players eventually become arrogant >and lazy and without another company threatening their existence they become >unresponsive and self-righteous. > >This may be just the wakeup call that MS needs so they will become >re-acquainted with their real clients, the ones that pay the bills that keep >the lights on. Maybe in the future incidence like the latest IE mistake will >be taken seriously. > >Jim > >-----Original Message----- >From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan >Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 5:27 PM >To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues >Subject: [dba-Tech] WIndows Share > >Another one to worry the Windows fanbois :-) > >http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/12/13/windows_market_share_just_20percent/ > >-- >Stuart >_______________________________________________ >dba-Tech mailing list >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >_______________________________________________ >dba-Tech mailing list >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Dec 14 06:03:28 2012 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 22:03:28 +1000 Subject: [dba-Tech] Internet Explorer Data Leakage (versions 6 to 10) In-Reply-To: <1355482643.942159767@f13.mail.ru> References: , <7DD9B0F6-5348-4BB3-8C71-79782880FD36@phulse.com>, <1355482643.942159767@f13.mail.ru> Message-ID: <50CB1590.9496.4F8383D0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> http://www.computerweekly.com/photostory/2240166050/Developing-software-for-Windows- 8/2/The-Win-RT-API "The API for WinRT is a subset of the full Windows API " http://thenextweb.com/microsoft/2012/08/28/the-old-yet-new-firestorm-windows-rt-sandboxed -limiting-performance-api-access-certain-apps/ "Windows 8/ARM only allows sandboxed apps from independent developers. These only have access to the WinRT API, but not the full WIN32 API. Yes, the WIN32 API _does_ exist on W8ARM, but only Internet Explorer and system processes get access to it. ... Developers can use our tools to create native C/C++ code for maximal performance and flexibility, in addition to the C#, XAML, VB, and HTML5 based tools, to target apps for WOA, so long as their code targets the WinRT API set. Additionally, developers with existing code, whether in C, C++, C#, Visual Basic, or JavaScript, are free to incorporate that code into their apps, so long as it targets the WinRT API set for Windows services. " -- Stuart On 14 Dec 2012 at 14:57, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi Hans -- > > <<< On WinRT, Microsoft restricts access to APIs to the extent that its > impossible. >>> Please provide links on information proving that > statement. > <<< From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Dec 14 06:43:43 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 04:43:43 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] Another Start button for Win8 In-Reply-To: <50CB1590.9496.4F8383D0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <7DD9B0F6-5348-4BB3-8C71-79782880FD36@phulse.com>, <1355482643.942159767@f13.mail.ru> <50CB1590.9496.4F8383D0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <42E28DCD7E6D43519DBA35A58671BFD8@creativesystemdesigns.com> For all you users who find Win8 difficult to start get your computer tech to add a "Start" button for you and refer them to this article and then life is good again. ;-) http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/window-on-windows/add-a-self-made-start-but ton-to-the-windows-8-desktop/7024?tag=nl.e101&s_cid=e101 Jim From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Dec 14 06:57:49 2012 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 13:57:49 +0100 Subject: [dba-Tech] Internet Explorer Data Leakage (versions 6 to 10) Message-ID: <002b01cdd9fa$9f2584e0$dd708ea0$@cactus.dk> Hi Stuart It is not enough to quote some doubtful article. If you study the drawing for a moment, you'll see that the WinRT API is not a subset of the Win32 API but a "sister" to this. In fact, this is the whole idea of WinRT - to offer a modern an much more developer-friendly AP interface to the Windows core aligned nearly 100% to that of Windows Phone. /gustav -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Stuart McLachlan Sendt: 14. december 2012 13:03 Til: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Emne: Re: [dba-Tech] Internet Explorer Data Leakage (versions 6 to 10) http://www.computerweekly.com/photostory/2240166050/Developing-software-for- Windows-8/2/The-Win-RT-API "The API for WinRT is a subset of the full Windows API " http://thenextweb.com/microsoft/2012/08/28/the-old-yet-new-firestorm-windows -rt-sandboxed-limiting-performance-api-access-certain-apps/ "Windows 8/ARM only allows sandboxed apps from independent developers. These only have access to the WinRT API, but not the full WIN32 API. Yes, the WIN32 API _does_ exist on W8ARM, but only Internet Explorer and system processes get access to it. ... Developers can use our tools to create native C/C++ code for maximal performance and flexibility, in addition to the C#, XAML, VB, and HTML5 based tools, to target apps for WOA, so long as their code targets the WinRT API set. Additionally, developers with existing code, whether in C, C++, C#, Visual Basic, or JavaScript, are free to incorporate that code into their apps, so long as it targets the WinRT API set for Windows services. " -- Stuart On 14 Dec 2012 at 14:57, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi Hans -- > > <<< On WinRT, Microsoft restricts access to APIs to the extent that its impossible. >>> Please provide links on information proving that statement. > <<< From mcp2004 at mail.ru Fri Dec 14 07:16:40 2012 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 17:16:40 +0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] =?utf-8?q?Another_Start_button_for_Win8?= In-Reply-To: <42E28DCD7E6D43519DBA35A58671BFD8@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <50CB1590.9496.4F8383D0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <42E28DCD7E6D43519DBA35A58671BFD8@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <1355491000.76044158@f35.mail.ru> I have just made a desktop short-cut to? C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs but I have found I rarely need to "dive into it" in my everyday work. -- Shamil ???????, 14 ??????? 2012, 4:43 ?? "Jim Lawrence" : >For all you users who find Win8 difficult to start get your computer tech to >add a "Start" button for you and refer them to this article and then life is >good again. ;-) > >http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/window-on-windows/add-a-self-made-start-but >ton-to-the-windows-8-desktop/7024?tag=nl.e101&s_cid=e101 > >Jim > >_______________________________________________ >dba-Tech mailing list >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From hans.andersen at phulse.com Fri Dec 14 09:15:35 2012 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 07:15:35 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] Internet Explorer Data Leakage (versions 6 to 10) In-Reply-To: <1355482643.942159767@f13.mail.ru> References: <1355440633.862536870@f306.mail.ru> <7DD9B0F6-5348-4BB3-8C71-79782880FD36@phulse.com> <1355482643.942159767@f13.mail.ru> Message-ID: <9FF07FE0-7E16-4BC6-AB2A-2F420892903B@phulse.com> Here you go: EU antitrust regulators let Microsoft limit browsers on Windows RT - http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9232884/EU_antitrust_regulators_let_Microsoft_limit_browsers_on_Windows_RT Best regards, Hans-Christian Andersen On 14 Dec 2012, at 02:57, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > <<< > On WinRT, Microsoft restricts access to APIs to the extent that its impossible. > Please provide links on information proving that statement. > At least for WinRT one can develop apps using HTML5 and JavaScript running within IE instance probably - do you mean WinRT will block external third-parties API/Web services calls even in this case? From hans.andersen at phulse.com Fri Dec 14 09:34:59 2012 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 07:34:59 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] Internet Explorer Data Leakage (versions 6 to 10) In-Reply-To: <1355482643.942159767@f13.mail.ru> References: <1355440633.862536870@f306.mail.ru> <7DD9B0F6-5348-4BB3-8C71-79782880FD36@phulse.com> <1355482643.942159767@f13.mail.ru> Message-ID: <9EBC276D-B999-4F6E-90AA-72BF98F55F77@phulse.com> It was a matter of logical deduction, because it would have to in order to function on Windows RT... unless Google decided to maintain two different bits of code base for Windows RT and everything else. But I don't know why google would submit itself to such pain for such a simple app. :) I have the Google app installed on both my phone and tablet, so I am familiar with the way it works. I don't much like it. It's browsing lacks a lot of basic features that you expect from a browser. No bookmarking, address bar or tabs, to name a few obvious ones. The voice search is a nice feature though (especially for those of us who don't have Siri). Best regards, Hans-Christian Andersen On 14 Dec 2012, at 02:57, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > <<< > Regarding Googles utilities, if the goal is to avoid IE, due to security issues, this isn't much help. > Do you mean "Google Search" app for WinRT/Win8 uses MS Browser control to render web pages? > If Yes, do you have links on information proving that supposition? > > BTW, I have just installed "Google" app on my WInPhone 7.5 - it's like "Google Search" WinRT app but with more limited interface. Anyway one can type 'Gmail', 'Google Maps', 'Google Translate' ... in the search box and then browse to the Google apps - all within "Google" WinPhone 7.5 application... From hans.andersen at phulse.com Fri Dec 14 09:47:14 2012 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 07:47:14 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] Internet Explorer Data Leakage (versions 6 to 10) In-Reply-To: <1355482643.942159767@f13.mail.ru> References: <1355440633.862536870@f306.mail.ru> <7DD9B0F6-5348-4BB3-8C71-79782880FD36@phulse.com> <1355482643.942159767@f13.mail.ru> Message-ID: <7105770E-2833-4D16-ABF3-74885A99E1F1@phulse.com> My attitude is neutral to Microsoft. Perhaps that might change once Steve Ballmer has been replaced with a CEO who has a better vision for Microsoft. Microsoft has tried to change its stripes and has succeeded in many ways, but there is still a certain mindset that has been holding it back - for instance, its two-faced stance on Linux and open source in general. Best regards, Hans-Christian Andersen On 14 Dec 2012, at 02:57, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > I'm not defending MS - just wanted to invite you and others here to keep positive attitude... even for Microsoft :) > > Thank you. From hans.andersen at phulse.com Fri Dec 14 09:50:17 2012 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 07:50:17 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] Another Start button for Win8 In-Reply-To: <1355491000.76044158@f35.mail.ru> References: <50CB1590.9496.4F8383D0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <42E28DCD7E6D43519DBA35A58671BFD8@creativesystemdesigns.com> <1355491000.76044158@f35.mail.ru> Message-ID: Aren't there application shortcuts installed in the users local settings at times as well? Best regards, Hans-Christian Andersen On 14 Dec 2012, at 05:16, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > I have just made a desktop short-cut to > > C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs > > but I have found I rarely need to "dive into it" in my everyday work. > > -- Shamil > > > ???????, 14 ??????? 2012, 4:43 ?? "Jim Lawrence" : >> For all you users who find Win8 difficult to start get your computer tech to >> add a "Start" button for you and refer them to this article and then life is >> good again. ;-) >> >> http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/window-on-windows/add-a-self-made-start-but >> ton-to-the-windows-8-desktop/7024?tag=nl.e101&s_cid=e101 >> >> Jim >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Fri Dec 14 09:54:39 2012 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 10:54:39 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Outlook email download Message-ID: I'm downloading my entire gmail account into Outlook. The account's earliest emails date back to 2007. Outlook points to the gmail account. When I hit F9 to send and receive it seems to be throttled at about 5MB per swipe. Since there's about 1.3GB of mail stored on the gmail account, this is going to take 200 F9s to grab it all. Why this ~5 MB limit on a Receive action? Is this controlled by some setting in Outlook? And if so, can I remove that so that it downloads the whole batch in one keypress? In case you're wondering why I want to do this, once I have it all here, I plan to create an AccessD folder and move everything from AccessD into that folder, thereby creating a complete history of the AccessD trail from 2007 to the present. A local, searchable archive, as it were. Which I'll make available to any other listers, should you require it. TIA, Arthur Cell: 647.710.1314 From john at winhaven.net Fri Dec 14 11:10:31 2012 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 11:10:31 -0600 Subject: [dba-Tech] Outlook email download In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <013401cdda1d$ec3f4a90$c4bddfb0$@winhaven.net> All in the Send/Receive options of Outlook. Just have it send and receive every 30 seconds and you won't ever have to hit F9 :-) -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 9:55 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: [dba-Tech] Outlook email download I'm downloading my entire gmail account into Outlook. The account's earliest emails date back to 2007. Outlook points to the gmail account. When I hit F9 to send and receive it seems to be throttled at about 5MB per swipe. Since there's about 1.3GB of mail stored on the gmail account, this is going to take 200 F9s to grab it all. Why this ~5 MB limit on a Receive action? Is this controlled by some setting in Outlook? And if so, can I remove that so that it downloads the whole batch in one keypress? In case you're wondering why I want to do this, once I have it all here, I plan to create an AccessD folder and move everything from AccessD into that folder, thereby creating a complete history of the AccessD trail from 2007 to the present. A local, searchable archive, as it were. Which I'll make available to any other listers, should you require it. TIA, Arthur Cell: 647.710.1314 _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Fri Dec 14 11:20:58 2012 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 11:20:58 -0600 Subject: [dba-Tech] Internet Explorer Data Leakage (versions 6 to 10) In-Reply-To: <85CC1A92-5951-47B8-BB58-177DC6C28778@phulse.com> References: , <50C76AFB.90500@torchlake.com>, <50C7973C.11200.41DE08DF@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <79C0C209-EDDE-4DC0-BDF1-14645D12B5AA@phulse.com> <01ec01cdd979$6d2a4790$477ed6b0$@winhaven.net> <01f701cdd97c$45cdcde0$d16969a0$@winhaven.net> <025d01cdd9b3$b05a1740$110e45c0$@winhaven.net> <85CC1A92-5951-47B8-BB58-177DC6C28778@phulse.com> Message-ID: <014801cdda1f$61c5d990$25518cb0$@winhaven.net> I tried leakage test with IE10 on Windows 8 and the results are the same as IE8 on Windows XP :-( -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian Andersen Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 11:43 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Internet Explorer Data Leakage (versions 6 to 10) Probably not. It was developed by a different team and doesn't even share the same rendering engine (IE on Mac used the Tasman engine, while IE on Windows has been using the Trident engine since IE 4.0). But, even if it was, IE on Mac has been discontinued since 2003, so if anyone is still using a browser on their Mac that has been dead for a decade, well, they deserve it as much as someone running Windows ME for a good experience. :) Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Explorer_for_Mac - Hans On 2012-12-13, at 8:30 PM, "John Bartow" wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Hans-Christian Andersen > Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 4:35 PM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Internet Explorer Data Leakage (versions 6 to > 10) > > > I tried it for fun in the 3 main other browsers for fun (Chrome, > Safari, > Firefox) and it didn't work. And, saying that, it won't affect any > other browsers for these 2 reasons: > [---] Thanks for that. > 1. The .fireEvent() method is a Microsoft proprietary bit of > javascript. No other browser understands what this means. > > 2. All the other browsers seem to respect the principle that you > should not be able to track the location of the mouse once it leaves > the boundaries of the browser window or the window is no longer in focus (ie. minimised). > > It has been speculated that the reason that IE does this is because it > has some deep hooks into the Windows API that other browsers do not > and this is also probably why Microsoft appears to be reluctant to fix it (for now). > [---] This just begs the question: does this affect IE on a Mac? > > [---] John B > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Fri Dec 14 11:26:18 2012 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 12:26:18 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Outlook email download In-Reply-To: <013401cdda1d$ec3f4a90$c4bddfb0$@winhaven.net> References: <013401cdda1d$ec3f4a90$c4bddfb0$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: I don't see that anywhere. If I click Send/Receive | Settings, all I see is Define Send/Receive Groups, Disable Send/Receive Schedule and Show Progress. I didn't see anything relevant under Tools | Options either. (This is Outlook 2007; maybe that makes a difference?) From john at winhaven.net Fri Dec 14 11:53:30 2012 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 11:53:30 -0600 Subject: [dba-Tech] Outlook email download In-Reply-To: References: <013401cdda1d$ec3f4a90$c4bddfb0$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <015901cdda23$ed7aa200$c86fe600$@winhaven.net> I'm on 2010 and now I can't find it! But under Options - Advanced - Send/Receive - Settings you can change the time period in which it automatically does the operation. I have mine set for every 5 minutes and I now see the lowest it goes is every 1 minute. That should take of the problem. Also make sure your time out period is set high since your AV will probably be scanning all of those attachments. There's an Account Properties button right there on that same dialogue. -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 11:26 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Outlook email download I don't see that anywhere. If I click Send/Receive | Settings, all I see is Define Send/Receive Groups, Disable Send/Receive Schedule and Show Progress. I didn't see anything relevant under Tools | Options either. (This is Outlook 2007; maybe that makes a difference?) _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Dec 14 13:27:26 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 11:27:26 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] Another Start button for Win8 In-Reply-To: <1355491000.76044158@f35.mail.ru> References: <50CB1590.9496.4F8383D0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><42E28DCD7E6D43519DBA35A58671BFD8@creativesystemdesigns.com> <1355491000.76044158@f35.mail.ru> Message-ID: <92B7565D92EC4FE0A7BDCFD23666CCC8@creativesystemdesigns.com> You are a programmer...you are use to hacking through any issues. Users are not like that; first question or issue and the phone rings. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 5:17 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Another Start button for Win8 I have just made a desktop short-cut to? C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs but I have found I rarely need to "dive into it" in my everyday work. -- Shamil ???????, 14 ??????? 2012, 4:43 ?? "Jim Lawrence" : >For all you users who find Win8 difficult to start get your computer tech to >add a "Start" button for you and refer them to this article and then life is >good again. ;-) > >http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/window-on-windows/add-a-self-made-start-bu t >ton-to-the-windows-8-desktop/7024?tag=nl.e101&s_cid=e101 > >Jim > >_______________________________________________ >dba-Tech mailing list >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Dec 14 13:39:07 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 11:39:07 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] Internet Explorer Data Leakage (versions 6 to 10) In-Reply-To: <9FF07FE0-7E16-4BC6-AB2A-2F420892903B@phulse.com> References: <1355440633.862536870@f306.mail.ru><7DD9B0F6-5348-4BB3-8C71-79782880FD36@phulse.com><1355482643.942159767@f13.mail.ru> <9FF07FE0-7E16-4BC6-AB2A-2F420892903B@phulse.com> Message-ID: <0650F1BE9C314F33B5C2B4CFBC2054A0@creativesystemdesigns.com> The sad thing about this is that web developers, for the most part will now continue ignoring IE as it has strayed so far off the industry standards. The cost to the web developers for supporting IE is usually between 40 and 50 percent more than supporting the other browsers. Stats have stated that there is less than 15 percent of developers who are actively supporting IE and with that recent announcement those percentages will continue to drop. It will only go to hurt Microsoft and their customers in the long run. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian Andersen Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 7:16 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Internet Explorer Data Leakage (versions 6 to 10) Here you go: EU antitrust regulators let Microsoft limit browsers on Windows RT - http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9232884/EU_antitrust_regulators_let_M icrosoft_limit_browsers_on_Windows_RT Best regards, Hans-Christian Andersen On 14 Dec 2012, at 02:57, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > <<< > On WinRT, Microsoft restricts access to APIs to the extent that its impossible. > Please provide links on information proving that statement. > At least for WinRT one can develop apps using HTML5 and JavaScript running within IE instance probably - do you mean WinRT will block external third-parties API/Web services calls even in this case? _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From hans.andersen at phulse.com Fri Dec 14 14:22:42 2012 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 12:22:42 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] Internet Explorer Data Leakage (versions 6 to 10) In-Reply-To: <0650F1BE9C314F33B5C2B4CFBC2054A0@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <1355440633.862536870@f306.mail.ru> <7DD9B0F6-5348-4BB3-8C71-79782880FD36@phulse.com> <1355482643.942159767@f13.mail.ru> <9FF07FE0-7E16-4BC6-AB2A-2F420892903B@phulse.com> <0650F1BE9C314F33B5C2B4CFBC2054A0@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <6FF60505-CA55-43D0-B4E0-2C3820DAE962@phulse.com> I still think, if I were steering the ship that is Microsoft, I would swallow my pride and cut the Trident engine loose and adopt either Mozillas Gecko or Safari/Chromes WebKit rendering engine. In the overall perspective, IE market share is in a free fall, while Chrome and Safari are gaining. But, perhaps this explains why Microsoft has placed restrictions in Windows RT that IE can be the only browser. Maybe their hope is that most users will buy the cheaper Windows RT devices (while leaving the more expensive Intel version open, so not to get into trouble with regulators), thus forcing web developers to pay attention to IE again. It's a bit of a gambit, but you have to appreciate the irony that a decade ago, many sites on the internet would actually have a disclaimer saying that "this site is optimised for Internet Explorer", but these days, many sites not say "Sorry, but Internet Explorer isn't supported". When you have stats like these: http://thenextweb.com/google/2012/09/03/after-steep-ie-decline-chrome-poised-become-popular-browser-uk-safari-rising-worldwide/ you can tell that Microsoft is probably in a bit of a panic about this (they should be!). Best regards, Hans-Christian Andersen On 14 Dec 2012, at 11:39, "Jim Lawrence" wrote: > The sad thing about this is that web developers, for the most part will now > continue ignoring IE as it has strayed so far off the industry standards. > > The cost to the web developers for supporting IE is usually between 40 and > 50 percent more than supporting the other browsers. Stats have stated that > there is less than 15 percent of developers who are actively supporting IE > and with that recent announcement those percentages will continue to drop. > > It will only go to hurt Microsoft and their customers in the long run. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian > Andersen > Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 7:16 AM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Internet Explorer Data Leakage (versions 6 to 10) > > > Here you go: > > EU antitrust regulators let Microsoft limit browsers on Windows RT - > http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9232884/EU_antitrust_regulators_let_M > icrosoft_limit_browsers_on_Windows_RT > > > Best regards, > Hans-Christian Andersen > > > On 14 Dec 2012, at 02:57, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >> <<< >> On WinRT, Microsoft restricts access to APIs to the extent that its > impossible. >> Please provide links on information proving that statement. >> At least for WinRT one can develop apps using HTML5 and JavaScript running > within IE instance probably - do you mean WinRT will block external > third-parties API/Web services calls even in this case? > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Dec 14 14:28:16 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 12:28:16 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] Win8 and IE In-Reply-To: References: <50CB1590.9496.4F8383D0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><42E28DCD7E6D43519DBA35A58671BFD8@creativesystemdesigns.com><1355491000.76044158@f35.mail.ru> Message-ID: <62291A67BD0A4EF2A45AA30A06C6018C@creativesystemdesigns.com> Microsoft is totting their latest IE10 as the best browser. An independent review would shed a more comprehensive and unbiased view on the product but for what it is worth, here is the MS take on it all. http://blogs.windows.com/ie/b/ie/archive/2012/12/13/ten-reasons-why-internet -explorer-10-is-best-for-business.aspx The one particular item that makes me smile is item nine. It should be noted that if Microsoft had not been playing fast and loss with the "Industry Standards" the "mouse position bug" would not have existed. I understand there is a fairly large list of functions within IE 10 JavaScript rendering engine that exist in no other browser and then there is a huge number is issues with JS functions that have to be specially written for IE as they deviate from those industry standards. It should be further noted that JQuery was originally created so that developers could program their web apps only once, but now it is becoming almost impossible to keep up with IE. When developing on any version of IE, you must have a separate CSS library and that has not improved much/at all since IE6. I can not speak with any authority to the other items listed in the article but if the accuracy of item nine sets the bar I would be very disappointed. Jim From mcp2004 at mail.ru Fri Dec 14 16:29:01 2012 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2012 02:29:01 +0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] =?utf-8?q?Internet_Explorer_Data_Leakage_=28versions_6?= =?utf-8?q?_to_10=29?= In-Reply-To: <9FF07FE0-7E16-4BC6-AB2A-2F420892903B@phulse.com> References: <1355482643.942159767@f13.mail.ru> <9FF07FE0-7E16-4BC6-AB2A-2F420892903B@phulse.com> Message-ID: <1355524141.474205895@f76.mail.ru> Hans -- Thank you for the link. But the article states that EU currently does not see that MS is limiting somehow third party development under WinRT, doesn't it? ""We have looked at Windows RT, and on the basis of our investigation so far, there are no grounds to pursue further investigation on this particular issue," Joaquin Almunia, the EU's head antitrust official, said at a news conference Wednesday. "But we will closely monitor all the elements of the Windows software and how Microsoft complies to [its] commitments." Almunia's agency fielded complaints last summer that accused Microsoft of stymying other browser makers' efforts to build software that runs in Windows RT, the offshoot of Windows 8 designed for ARM-powered tablets." In Win8 you can unpin IE icon from desktop taskbar, you can setup Google Chrome or whatever else browser you like, set that browser a default one, remove IE tile from "Metro style" START screen etc. Thank you. -- Shamil ???????, 14 ??????? 2012, 7:15 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen : > >Here you go: > >EU antitrust regulators let Microsoft limit browsers on Windows RT - >http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9232884/EU_antitrust_regulators_let_Microsoft_limit_browsers_on_Windows_RT > > >Best regards, >Hans-Christian Andersen > > >On 14 Dec 2012, at 02:57, Salakhetdinov Shamil < mcp2004 at mail.ru > wrote: > >> <<< >> On WinRT, Microsoft restricts access to APIs to the extent that its impossible. >> Please provide links on information proving that statement. >> At least for WinRT one can develop apps using HTML5 and JavaScript running within IE instance probably - do you mean WinRT will block external third-parties API/Web services calls even in this case? >_______________________________________________ >dba-Tech mailing list >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Dec 14 17:01:47 2012 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2012 09:01:47 +1000 Subject: [dba-Tech] Outlook email download In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <50CBAFDB.1134.51DE3782@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I've currently got a complete history of AccessD back to Feb 2007. :-) A little over 26,000 messages in two Pegasus Mail folders taking up about 150MB. -- Stuart On 14 Dec 2012 at 10:54, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I'm downloading my entire gmail account into Outlook. The account's > earliest emails date back to 2007. Outlook points to the gmail account. > When I hit F9 to send and receive it seems to be throttled at about 5MB per > swipe. Since there's about 1.3GB of mail stored on the gmail account, this > is going to take 200 F9s to grab it all. > > Why this ~5 MB limit on a Receive action? Is this controlled by some > setting in Outlook? And if so, can I remove that so that it downloads the > whole batch in one keypress? > > In case you're wondering why I want to do this, once I have it all here, I > plan to create an AccessD folder and move everything from AccessD into that > folder, thereby creating a complete history of the AccessD trail from 2007 > to the present. A local, searchable archive, as it were. Which I'll make > available to any other listers, should you require it. > > TIA, > Arthur > Cell: 647.710.1314 > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From hans.andersen at phulse.com Fri Dec 14 17:25:44 2012 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 15:25:44 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] Internet Explorer Data Leakage (versions 6 to 10) In-Reply-To: <1355524141.474205895@f76.mail.ru> References: <1355482643.942159767@f13.mail.ru> <9FF07FE0-7E16-4BC6-AB2A-2F420892903B@phulse.com> <1355524141.474205895@f76.mail.ru> Message-ID: <510B526E-0E50-4EC3-AD0A-EB309736F393@phulse.com> > But the article states that EU currently does not see that MS is limiting somehow third party development under WinRT, doesn't it? No, they simply said they didn't feel it was worth laying down the law on Microsoft for this. They did not say anything about whether or not Microsoft was in fact limiting 3rd party access to APIs in WinRT. > In Win8 you can unpin IE icon from desktop taskbar, you can setup Google Chrome or whatever else browser you like, set that browser a default one, remove IE tile from "Metro style" START screen etc. That is true. You can do that (although somewhat inconvenient) in Windows 8 and Intel based Win8 tablets. But, on ARM based Windows RT tablets, as I assume you know, you cannot run any applications in classic mode other than Office, explorer and IE (I think that's about it). Any other apps on Windows RT has to be a Metro application and is therefore has restrictions placed in it and the classic desktop is a restricted space for users. Please fully read the pasted answers from Microsoft below: http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_rt-windows_install/faq-windows-rt-and-windows-8/06bd1ac1-c7ba-40ce-8baa-3f4773944cd9 Q: What are some of the disadvantages of Windows RT? A: Windows RT cannot run traditional desktop x86 applications. For that users will be best served by choosing a Windows x86 device. Windows RT devices cannot run classic desktop applications such as Windows Media Player. Also, Windows RT cannot join a Windows Domain and must access resources on a business network using other means configured by a Company?s IT to support RT based devices. Q: Can my existing library of Windows x86 applications run on Windows RT? No, traditional desktop applications that run on the x86 architecture from Intel and AMD will not work on Windows RT on ARM. So for example, Adobe Photoshop CS5 or Microsoft Office 2010 will not run on Windows RT on ARM. Microsoft is restricting third party applications on Windows RT to just the Metro design language. The Windows Desktop App in Windows RT is a restricted environment just for File Explorer and Microsoft Office 2013 applications. Best regards, Hans-Christian Andersen On 14 Dec 2012, at 14:29, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hans -- > > Thank you for the link. > But the article states that EU currently does not see that MS is limiting somehow third party development under WinRT, doesn't it? > > ""We have looked at Windows RT, and on the basis of our investigation so far, there are no grounds to pursue further investigation on this particular issue," Joaquin Almunia, the EU's head antitrust official, said at a news conference Wednesday. "But we will closely monitor all the elements of the Windows software and how Microsoft complies to [its] commitments." > Almunia's agency fielded complaints last summer that accused Microsoft of stymying other browser makers' efforts to build software that runs in Windows RT, the offshoot of Windows 8 designed for ARM-powered tablets." > In Win8 you can unpin IE icon from desktop taskbar, you can setup Google Chrome or whatever else browser you like, set that browser a default one, remove IE tile from "Metro style" START screen etc. > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > ???????, 14 ??????? 2012, 7:15 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen : >> >> Here you go: >> >> EU antitrust regulators let Microsoft limit browsers on Windows RT - >> http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9232884/EU_antitrust_regulators_let_Microsoft_limit_browsers_on_Windows_RT >> >> >> Best regards, >> Hans-Christian Andersen >> >> >> On 14 Dec 2012, at 02:57, Salakhetdinov Shamil < mcp2004 at mail.ru > wrote: >> >>> <<< >>> On WinRT, Microsoft restricts access to APIs to the extent that its impossible. >>> Please provide links on information proving that statement. >>> At least for WinRT one can develop apps using HTML5 and JavaScript running within IE instance probably - do you mean WinRT will block external third-parties API/Web services calls even in this case? >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Dec 15 14:16:01 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2012 12:16:01 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] How could IE fix it problems fast In-Reply-To: <510B526E-0E50-4EC3-AD0A-EB309736F393@phulse.com> References: <1355482643.942159767@f13.mail.ru><9FF07FE0-7E16-4BC6-AB2A-2F420892903B@phulse.com><1355524141.474205895@f76.mail.ru> <510B526E-0E50-4EC3-AD0A-EB309736F393@phulse.com> Message-ID: Microsoft and all other browser builders have had to content with the incredible speed of advances in the internet especially when it comes to browser presentation and client programming. Many browser developers have tried to avoid client browser issues by doing all/most the computing on their servers and then pushing the results to the client. This may work temporarily but performance is going to be seriously hampers both for the client, who has to wait while a page is being remotely rendered and downloaded and for the BE data supplier who has to add more hardware and bandwidth just to support the clients. I have been complaining about this for a long while. Both Apple(Safari) and Google(Chrome) have taken a progressive approach by simply not worrying about trying to keep up with the ongoing trends and have just focused on building super fast browser layout engines, KHTML and V8 respectively and have been funding an OSS third party application for the latest and greatest HTML5, CSS3 and beyond. The company is called WebKit. (Note: the OSS KDE first created KHTML, Apple adopted it (swiped it), but then the product's designers forked, refocused and it became Webkit.) http://www.webkit.org/ Webkit is so fast because, even though it is developed in JavaScript, it compiles its' JavaScript into native machine code. If MS was willing to accept the new order mashup and embrace it, IE11 could be a leading browser contender with minimum effort and minimum costs. Aside: I do know there is a big pride thing in the way but going it alone is not the answer and having a proprietary developers browser does not make business sense on any level. Jim From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Dec 15 14:29:25 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2012 12:29:25 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] The new Paypal In-Reply-To: References: <1355482643.942159767@f13.mail.ru><9FF07FE0-7E16-4BC6-AB2A-2F420892903B@phulse.com><1355524141.474205895@f76.mail.ru><510B526E-0E50-4EC3-AD0A-EB309736F393@phulse.com> Message-ID: <6F7F5A63460A42E696FDB002AED45568@creativesystemdesigns.com> Paypal has been around for years and most of use have just used it as customers and not as a business. If you have used it for your business you will know the Paypal takes no responsibility for failures in the process and does not necessarily report such failures to the business and if PP does, in many cases, it is too late as the "sold" product has gone out the door or has been already downloaded. Now there is a new product that claims to solve PayPal issues called Gumroad. https://gumroad.com/ I have heard some great reviews on the product so if you are thinking of starting your own product store check it out. Jim From peter.brawley at earthlink.net Sat Dec 15 15:48:41 2012 From: peter.brawley at earthlink.net (Peter Brawley) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2012 15:48:41 -0600 Subject: [dba-Tech] The new Paypal In-Reply-To: <6F7F5A63460A42E696FDB002AED45568@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <1355482643.942159767@f13.mail.ru><9FF07FE0-7E16-4BC6-AB2A-2F420892903B@phulse.com><1355524141.474205895@f76.mail.ru><510B526E-0E50-4EC3-AD0A-EB309736F393@phulse.com> <6F7F5A63460A42E696FDB002AED45568@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <50CCF039.1060408@earthlink.net> On 2012-12-15 2:29 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Paypal has been around for years and most of use have just used it as > customers and not as a business. > > If you have used it for your business you will know the Paypal takes no > responsibility for failures in the process and does not necessarily report > such failures to the business and if PP does, in many cases, it is too late > as the "sold" product has gone out the door or has been already downloaded. > > Now there is a new product that claims to solve PayPal issues called > Gumroad. > > https://gumroad.com/ > > I have heard some great reviews on the product so if you are thinking of > starting your own product store check it out. It takes 5% + $.025 as a fee. PayPal are less than one-third of that. PB ----- > > Jim > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From hans.andersen at phulse.com Sat Dec 15 16:20:00 2012 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2012 14:20:00 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] How could IE fix it problems fast In-Reply-To: References: <1355482643.942159767@f13.mail.ru><9FF07FE0-7E16-4BC6-AB2A-2F420892903B@phulse.com><1355524141.474205895@f76.mail.ru> <510B526E-0E50-4EC3-AD0A-EB309736F393@phulse.com> Message-ID: <55FEE1CB-9DD8-4C42-94ED-E74EF6AF570E@phulse.com> I'm with you on this. Some people have suggested they don't like that idea, because they think there should be another browser engine to keep the competition up, which I'd normally agree with, but the sad fact is that this is not a level playing field and IE has been a detriment to the web rather than a welcome competitor. They can either go with WebKit or even Mozillas Gecko would be just as fine. > The company is called WebKit. (Note: the OSS KDE first created KHTML, Apple adopted it (swiped it), but then the product's designers forked, refocused and it became Webkit.) I just want to correct you here. It's not possible to swipe OSS code unless you violate the OSS license. I'm not sure why you would use such terminology? If you fork an OSS project, you simply have to comply with the license (GPL, LGPL, BSD, etc). In this case, it was the Lesser GPL license, which means you can take the code and use it how you like, but any modifications of the code requires you to contribute your modifications back to the project. To make things clear, WebKit was created by Apple employee Don Melton in 2001 as a fork of KHTML and then was open sourced by Apple's Safari developer Dave Hyatt in 2007. No product designers forked Apple's code and created WebKit, as you suggested. You can read the facts from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebKit#Origins Konqueror (the de facto KHTML browser) was my favourite browser for such a long time. It brings a tear to my eye to think that the work of the KHTML devs would eventually dominate the world. *sniff* :) - Hans On 2012-12-15, at 12:16 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Microsoft and all other browser builders have had to content with the > incredible speed of advances in the internet especially when it comes to > browser presentation and client programming. > > Many browser developers have tried to avoid client browser issues by doing > all/most the computing on their servers and then pushing the results to the > client. This may work temporarily but performance is going to be seriously > hampers both for the client, who has to wait while a page is being remotely > rendered and downloaded and for the BE data supplier who has to add more > hardware and bandwidth just to support the clients. I have been complaining > about this for a long while. > > Both Apple(Safari) and Google(Chrome) have taken a progressive approach by > simply not worrying about trying to keep up with the ongoing trends and have > just focused on building super fast browser layout engines, KHTML and V8 > respectively and have been funding an OSS third party application for the > latest and greatest HTML5, CSS3 and beyond. The company is called WebKit. > (Note: the OSS KDE first created KHTML, Apple adopted it (swiped it), but > then the product's designers forked, refocused and it became Webkit.) > > http://www.webkit.org/ > > Webkit is so fast because, even though it is developed in JavaScript, it > compiles its' JavaScript into native machine code. > > If MS was willing to accept the new order mashup and embrace it, IE11 could > be a leading browser contender with minimum effort and minimum costs. > > Aside: I do know there is a big pride thing in the way but going it alone is > not the answer and having a proprietary developers browser does not make > business sense on any level. > > Jim > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Sun Dec 16 08:40:51 2012 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2012 14:40:51 +0000 Subject: [dba-Tech] How could IE fix it problems fast In-Reply-To: <55FEE1CB-9DD8-4C42-94ED-E74EF6AF570E@phulse.com> References: <1355482643.942159767@f13.mail.ru> <9FF07FE0-7E16-4BC6-AB2A-2F420892903B@phulse.com> <1355524141.474205895@f76.mail.ru> <510B526E-0E50-4EC3-AD0A-EB309736F393@phulse.com> <55FEE1CB-9DD8-4C42-94ED-E74EF6AF570E@phulse.com> Message-ID: <57F70C9E-9E59-45FD-A680-E6BB00C6FE7F@qub.ac.uk> I still think the millions of users don't really care which browser they use. Doesn't matter to them. Long as facebook etc work they use anything at all. Martin Sent from my iPad On 15 Dec 2012, at 22:20, "Hans-Christian Andersen" wrote: > > I'm with you on this. Some people have suggested they don't like that idea, because they think there should be another browser engine to keep the competition up, which I'd normally agree with, but the sad fact is that this is not a level playing field and IE has been a detriment to the web rather than a welcome competitor. They can either go with WebKit or even Mozillas Gecko would be just as fine. > >> The company is called WebKit. (Note: the OSS KDE first created KHTML, Apple adopted it (swiped it), but then the product's designers forked, refocused and it became Webkit.) > > I just want to correct you here. It's not possible to swipe OSS code unless you violate the OSS license. I'm not sure why you would use such terminology? If you fork an OSS project, you simply have to comply with the license (GPL, LGPL, BSD, etc). In this case, it was the Lesser GPL license, which means you can take the code and use it how you like, but any modifications of the code requires you to contribute your modifications back to the project. > > To make things clear, WebKit was created by Apple employee Don Melton in 2001 as a fork of KHTML and then was open sourced by Apple's Safari developer Dave Hyatt in 2007. No product designers forked Apple's code and created WebKit, as you suggested. > > You can read the facts from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebKit#Origins > > Konqueror (the de facto KHTML browser) was my favourite browser for such a long time. It brings a tear to my eye to think that the work of the KHTML devs would eventually dominate the world. *sniff* :) > > - Hans > > > > On 2012-12-15, at 12:16 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > >> Microsoft and all other browser builders have had to content with the >> incredible speed of advances in the internet especially when it comes to >> browser presentation and client programming. >> >> Many browser developers have tried to avoid client browser issues by doing >> all/most the computing on their servers and then pushing the results to the >> client. This may work temporarily but performance is going to be seriously >> hampers both for the client, who has to wait while a page is being remotely >> rendered and downloaded and for the BE data supplier who has to add more >> hardware and bandwidth just to support the clients. I have been complaining >> about this for a long while. >> >> Both Apple(Safari) and Google(Chrome) have taken a progressive approach by >> simply not worrying about trying to keep up with the ongoing trends and have >> just focused on building super fast browser layout engines, KHTML and V8 >> respectively and have been funding an OSS third party application for the >> latest and greatest HTML5, CSS3 and beyond. The company is called WebKit. >> (Note: the OSS KDE first created KHTML, Apple adopted it (swiped it), but >> then the product's designers forked, refocused and it became Webkit.) >> >> http://www.webkit.org/ >> >> Webkit is so fast because, even though it is developed in JavaScript, it >> compiles its' JavaScript into native machine code. >> >> If MS was willing to accept the new order mashup and embrace it, IE11 could >> be a leading browser contender with minimum effort and minimum costs. >> >> Aside: I do know there is a big pride thing in the way but going it alone is >> not the answer and having a proprietary developers browser does not make >> business sense on any level. >> >> Jim >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sun Dec 16 09:12:53 2012 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2012 10:12:53 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] How could IE fix it problems fast In-Reply-To: <57F70C9E-9E59-45FD-A680-E6BB00C6FE7F@qub.ac.uk> References: <1355482643.942159767@f13.mail.ru> <9FF07FE0-7E16-4BC6-AB2A-2F420892903B@phulse.com> <1355524141.474205895@f76.mail.ru> <510B526E-0E50-4EC3-AD0A-EB309736F393@phulse.com> <55FEE1CB-9DD8-4C42-94ED-E74EF6AF570E@phulse.com> <57F70C9E-9E59-45FD-A680-E6BB00C6FE7F@qub.ac.uk> Message-ID: <50cde501.c44d320a.252f.ffff85d5@mx.google.com> Martin, I think you don't go far enough. Most people don't even know what a browser is, let alone that there are several from which to choose. They just see Facebook, Twitter, Hotmail etc. and are unaware that there is an app between them and Facebook etc. A. From accessd at shaw.ca Sun Dec 16 12:02:38 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2012 10:02:38 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] How could IE fix it problems fast In-Reply-To: <57F70C9E-9E59-45FD-A680-E6BB00C6FE7F@qub.ac.uk> References: <1355482643.942159767@f13.mail.ru><9FF07FE0-7E16-4BC6-AB2A-2F420892903B@phulse.com><1355524141.474205895@f76.mail.ru><510B526E-0E50-4EC3-AD0A-EB309736F393@phulse.com><55FEE1CB-9DD8-4C42-94ED-E74EF6AF570E@phulse.com> <57F70C9E-9E59-45FD-A680-E6BB00C6FE7F@qub.ac.uk> Message-ID: <0ED00F586FCF43109B551E1EC2F7752F@creativesystemdesigns.com> You are right of course Martin. The complaints posted here are not user or client concerns. These are just developer's rants...shop talk. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Martin Reid Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 6:41 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] How could IE fix it problems fast I still think the millions of users don't really care which browser they use. Doesn't matter to them. Long as facebook etc work they use anything at all. Martin Sent from my iPad On 15 Dec 2012, at 22:20, "Hans-Christian Andersen" wrote: > > I'm with you on this. Some people have suggested they don't like that idea, because they think there should be another browser engine to keep the competition up, which I'd normally agree with, but the sad fact is that this is not a level playing field and IE has been a detriment to the web rather than a welcome competitor. They can either go with WebKit or even Mozillas Gecko would be just as fine. > >> The company is called WebKit. (Note: the OSS KDE first created KHTML, Apple adopted it (swiped it), but then the product's designers forked, refocused and it became Webkit.) > > I just want to correct you here. It's not possible to swipe OSS code unless you violate the OSS license. I'm not sure why you would use such terminology? If you fork an OSS project, you simply have to comply with the license (GPL, LGPL, BSD, etc). In this case, it was the Lesser GPL license, which means you can take the code and use it how you like, but any modifications of the code requires you to contribute your modifications back to the project. > > To make things clear, WebKit was created by Apple employee Don Melton in 2001 as a fork of KHTML and then was open sourced by Apple's Safari developer Dave Hyatt in 2007. No product designers forked Apple's code and created WebKit, as you suggested. > > You can read the facts from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebKit#Origins > > Konqueror (the de facto KHTML browser) was my favourite browser for such a long time. It brings a tear to my eye to think that the work of the KHTML devs would eventually dominate the world. *sniff* :) > > - Hans > > > > On 2012-12-15, at 12:16 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > >> Microsoft and all other browser builders have had to content with the >> incredible speed of advances in the internet especially when it comes to >> browser presentation and client programming. >> >> Many browser developers have tried to avoid client browser issues by doing >> all/most the computing on their servers and then pushing the results to the >> client. This may work temporarily but performance is going to be seriously >> hampers both for the client, who has to wait while a page is being remotely >> rendered and downloaded and for the BE data supplier who has to add more >> hardware and bandwidth just to support the clients. I have been complaining >> about this for a long while. >> >> Both Apple(Safari) and Google(Chrome) have taken a progressive approach by >> simply not worrying about trying to keep up with the ongoing trends and have >> just focused on building super fast browser layout engines, KHTML and V8 >> respectively and have been funding an OSS third party application for the >> latest and greatest HTML5, CSS3 and beyond. The company is called WebKit. >> (Note: the OSS KDE first created KHTML, Apple adopted it (swiped it), but >> then the product's designers forked, refocused and it became Webkit.) >> >> http://www.webkit.org/ >> >> Webkit is so fast because, even though it is developed in JavaScript, it >> compiles its' JavaScript into native machine code. >> >> If MS was willing to accept the new order mashup and embrace it, IE11 could >> be a leading browser contender with minimum effort and minimum costs. >> >> Aside: I do know there is a big pride thing in the way but going it alone is >> not the answer and having a proprietary developers browser does not make >> business sense on any level. >> >> Jim >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Sun Dec 16 12:36:18 2012 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2012 22:36:18 +0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] =?utf-8?q?Internet_Explorer_Data_Leakage_=28versions_6?= =?utf-8?q?_to_10=29?= In-Reply-To: <510B526E-0E50-4EC3-AD0A-EB309736F393@phulse.com> References: <1355524141.474205895@f76.mail.ru> <510B526E-0E50-4EC3-AD0A-EB309736F393@phulse.com> Message-ID: <1355682978.466547089@f348.mail.ru> Hi Hans -- But I asked you to post a link where there would be presented real facts how MS is blocking/limiting third-party development on WindowsRT (ARM version) platform. It happens there are no such facts. The issue of WindowsRT (ARM version) being unable to run native x86 apps is equally "limiting" MS as it "limits" third-party developers, isn't it? Thank you. -- Shamil ???????, 14 ??????? 2012, 15:25 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen : > >> But the article states that EU currently does not see that MS is limiting somehow third party development under WinRT, doesn't it? > >No, they simply said they didn't feel it was worth laying down the law on Microsoft for this. They did not say anything about whether or not Microsoft was in fact limiting 3rd party access to APIs in WinRT. > >> In Win8 you can unpin IE icon from desktop taskbar, you can setup Google Chrome or whatever else browser you like, set that browser a default one, remove IE tile from "Metro style" START screen etc. > >That is true. You can do that (although somewhat inconvenient) in Windows 8 and Intel based Win8 tablets. > >But, on ARM based Windows RT tablets, as I assume you know, you cannot run any applications in classic mode other than Office, explorer and IE (I think that's about it). Any other apps on Windows RT has to be a Metro application and is therefore has restrictions placed in it and the classic desktop is a restricted space for users. > > > >Please fully read the pasted answers from Microsoft below: > >http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_rt-windows_install/faq-windows-rt-and-windows-8/06bd1ac1-c7ba-40ce-8baa-3f4773944cd9 > >Q: What are some of the disadvantages of Windows RT? >A: Windows RT cannot run traditional desktop x86 applications. For that users will be best served by choosing a Windows x86 device. Windows RT devices cannot run classic desktop applications such as Windows Media Player. Also, Windows RT cannot join a Windows Domain and must access resources on a business network using other means configured by a Company?s IT to support RT based devices. > >Q: Can my existing library of Windows x86 applications run on Windows RT? >No, traditional desktop applications that run on the x86 architecture from Intel and AMD will not work on Windows RT on ARM. So for example, Adobe Photoshop CS5 or Microsoft Office 2010 will not run on Windows RT on ARM. Microsoft is restricting third party applications on Windows RT to just the Metro design language. The Windows Desktop App in Windows RT is a restricted environment just for File Explorer and Microsoft Office 2013 applications. > > > > > >Best regards, >Hans-Christian Andersen > > >On 14 Dec 2012, at 14:29, Salakhetdinov Shamil < mcp2004 at mail.ru > wrote: > >> Hans -- >> >> Thank you for the link. >> But the article states that EU currently does not see that MS is limiting somehow third party development under WinRT, doesn't it? >> >> ""We have looked at Windows RT, and on the basis of our investigation so far, there are no grounds to pursue further investigation on this particular issue," Joaquin Almunia, the EU's head antitrust official, said at a news conference Wednesday. "But we will closely monitor all the elements of the Windows software and how Microsoft complies to [its] commitments." >> Almunia's agency fielded complaints last summer that accused Microsoft of stymying other browser makers' efforts to build software that runs in Windows RT, the offshoot of Windows 8 designed for ARM-powered tablets." >> In Win8 you can unpin IE icon from desktop taskbar, you can setup Google Chrome or whatever else browser you like, set that browser a default one, remove IE tile from "Metro style" START screen etc. >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- Shamil >> >> ???????, 14 ??????? 2012, 7:15 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen < hans.andersen at phulse.com >: >>> >>> Here you go: >>> >>> EU antitrust regulators let Microsoft limit browsers on Windows RT - >>> http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9232884/EU_antitrust_regulators_let_Microsoft_limit_browsers_on_Windows_RT >>> >>> >>> Best regards, >>> Hans-Christian Andersen >>> >>> >>> On 14 Dec 2012, at 02:57, Salakhetdinov Shamil < mcp2004 at mail.ru > wrote: >>> >>>> <<< >>>> On WinRT, Microsoft restricts access to APIs to the extent that its impossible. >>>> Please provide links on information proving that statement. >>>> At least for WinRT one can develop apps using HTML5 and JavaScript running within IE instance probably - do you mean WinRT will block external third-parties API/Web services calls even in this case? >>> _______________________________________________ >>> dba-Tech mailing list >>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >_______________________________________________ >dba-Tech mailing list >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From hans.andersen at phulse.com Sun Dec 16 14:04:26 2012 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2012 12:04:26 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] How could IE fix it problems fast In-Reply-To: <57F70C9E-9E59-45FD-A680-E6BB00C6FE7F@qub.ac.uk> References: <1355482643.942159767@f13.mail.ru> <9FF07FE0-7E16-4BC6-AB2A-2F420892903B@phulse.com> <1355524141.474205895@f76.mail.ru> <510B526E-0E50-4EC3-AD0A-EB309736F393@phulse.com> <55FEE1CB-9DD8-4C42-94ED-E74EF6AF570E@phulse.com> <57F70C9E-9E59-45FD-A680-E6BB00C6FE7F@qub.ac.uk> Message-ID: <78F41819-FC43-49A2-96EC-617462980D23@phulse.com> They don't. It's the life of developers, which is negatively affected and the cost is then passed on to the user in some shape or form whether its a tangible cost or not. Best regards, Hans-Christian Andersen On 16 Dec 2012, at 06:40, Martin Reid wrote: > I still think the millions of users don't really care which browser they use. Doesn't matter to them. Long as facebook etc work they use anything at all. > > > Martin > > Sent from my iPad > > On 15 Dec 2012, at 22:20, "Hans-Christian Andersen" wrote: > >> >> I'm with you on this. Some people have suggested they don't like that idea, because they think there should be another browser engine to keep the competition up, which I'd normally agree with, but the sad fact is that this is not a level playing field and IE has been a detriment to the web rather than a welcome competitor. They can either go with WebKit or even Mozillas Gecko would be just as fine. >> >>> The company is called WebKit. (Note: the OSS KDE first created KHTML, Apple adopted it (swiped it), but then the product's designers forked, refocused and it became Webkit.) >> >> I just want to correct you here. It's not possible to swipe OSS code unless you violate the OSS license. I'm not sure why you would use such terminology? If you fork an OSS project, you simply have to comply with the license (GPL, LGPL, BSD, etc). In this case, it was the Lesser GPL license, which means you can take the code and use it how you like, but any modifications of the code requires you to contribute your modifications back to the project. >> >> To make things clear, WebKit was created by Apple employee Don Melton in 2001 as a fork of KHTML and then was open sourced by Apple's Safari developer Dave Hyatt in 2007. No product designers forked Apple's code and created WebKit, as you suggested. >> >> You can read the facts from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebKit#Origins >> >> Konqueror (the de facto KHTML browser) was my favourite browser for such a long time. It brings a tear to my eye to think that the work of the KHTML devs would eventually dominate the world. *sniff* :) >> >> - Hans >> >> >> >> On 2012-12-15, at 12:16 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> >>> Microsoft and all other browser builders have had to content with the >>> incredible speed of advances in the internet especially when it comes to >>> browser presentation and client programming. >>> >>> Many browser developers have tried to avoid client browser issues by doing >>> all/most the computing on their servers and then pushing the results to the >>> client. This may work temporarily but performance is going to be seriously >>> hampers both for the client, who has to wait while a page is being remotely >>> rendered and downloaded and for the BE data supplier who has to add more >>> hardware and bandwidth just to support the clients. I have been complaining >>> about this for a long while. >>> >>> Both Apple(Safari) and Google(Chrome) have taken a progressive approach by >>> simply not worrying about trying to keep up with the ongoing trends and have >>> just focused on building super fast browser layout engines, KHTML and V8 >>> respectively and have been funding an OSS third party application for the >>> latest and greatest HTML5, CSS3 and beyond. The company is called WebKit. >>> (Note: the OSS KDE first created KHTML, Apple adopted it (swiped it), but >>> then the product's designers forked, refocused and it became Webkit.) >>> >>> http://www.webkit.org/ >>> >>> Webkit is so fast because, even though it is developed in JavaScript, it >>> compiles its' JavaScript into native machine code. >>> >>> If MS was willing to accept the new order mashup and embrace it, IE11 could >>> be a leading browser contender with minimum effort and minimum costs. >>> >>> Aside: I do know there is a big pride thing in the way but going it alone is >>> not the answer and having a proprietary developers browser does not make >>> business sense on any level. >>> >>> Jim >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> dba-Tech mailing list >>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From hans.andersen at phulse.com Sun Dec 16 15:43:55 2012 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2012 13:43:55 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] Internet Explorer Data Leakage (versions 6 to 10) In-Reply-To: <1355682978.466547089@f348.mail.ru> References: <1355524141.474205895@f76.mail.ru> <510B526E-0E50-4EC3-AD0A-EB309736F393@phulse.com> <1355682978.466547089@f348.mail.ru> Message-ID: <0ABB87C0-61D6-4DF3-A2A7-183BD5F1AED3@phulse.com> This concerns the Win32 API in more detail, from the horses mouth: http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/asa/archives/2012/05/why-windows-classic-.html If this isn't sufficient for you, then you might need to explain what kind of facts you are looking for. - Hans On 2012-12-16, at 10:36 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi Hans -- > > But I asked you to post a link where there would be presented real facts how MS is blocking/limiting third-party development on WindowsRT (ARM version) platform. It happens there are no such facts. The issue of WindowsRT (ARM version) being unable to run native x86 apps is equally "limiting" MS as it "limits" third-party developers, isn't it? > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > ???????, 14 ??????? 2012, 15:25 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen : >> >>> But the article states that EU currently does not see that MS is limiting somehow third party development under WinRT, doesn't it? >> >> No, they simply said they didn't feel it was worth laying down the law on Microsoft for this. They did not say anything about whether or not Microsoft was in fact limiting 3rd party access to APIs in WinRT. >> >>> In Win8 you can unpin IE icon from desktop taskbar, you can setup Google Chrome or whatever else browser you like, set that browser a default one, remove IE tile from "Metro style" START screen etc. >> >> That is true. You can do that (although somewhat inconvenient) in Windows 8 and Intel based Win8 tablets. >> >> But, on ARM based Windows RT tablets, as I assume you know, you cannot run any applications in classic mode other than Office, explorer and IE (I think that's about it). Any other apps on Windows RT has to be a Metro application and is therefore has restrictions placed in it and the classic desktop is a restricted space for users. >> >> >> >> Please fully read the pasted answers from Microsoft below: >> >> http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_rt-windows_install/faq-windows-rt-and-windows-8/06bd1ac1-c7ba-40ce-8baa-3f4773944cd9 >> >> Q: What are some of the disadvantages of Windows RT? >> A: Windows RT cannot run traditional desktop x86 applications. For that users will be best served by choosing a Windows x86 device. Windows RT devices cannot run classic desktop applications such as Windows Media Player. Also, Windows RT cannot join a Windows Domain and must access resources on a business network using other means configured by a Company?s IT to support RT based devices. >> >> Q: Can my existing library of Windows x86 applications run on Windows RT? >> No, traditional desktop applications that run on the x86 architecture from Intel and AMD will not work on Windows RT on ARM. So for example, Adobe Photoshop CS5 or Microsoft Office 2010 will not run on Windows RT on ARM. Microsoft is restricting third party applications on Windows RT to just the Metro design language. The Windows Desktop App in Windows RT is a restricted environment just for File Explorer and Microsoft Office 2013 applications. >> >> >> >> >> >> Best regards, >> Hans-Christian Andersen >> >> >> On 14 Dec 2012, at 14:29, Salakhetdinov Shamil < mcp2004 at mail.ru > wrote: >> >>> Hans -- >>> >>> Thank you for the link. >>> But the article states that EU currently does not see that MS is limiting somehow third party development under WinRT, doesn't it? >>> >>> ""We have looked at Windows RT, and on the basis of our investigation so far, there are no grounds to pursue further investigation on this particular issue," Joaquin Almunia, the EU's head antitrust official, said at a news conference Wednesday. "But we will closely monitor all the elements of the Windows software and how Microsoft complies to [its] commitments." >>> Almunia's agency fielded complaints last summer that accused Microsoft of stymying other browser makers' efforts to build software that runs in Windows RT, the offshoot of Windows 8 designed for ARM-powered tablets." >>> In Win8 you can unpin IE icon from desktop taskbar, you can setup Google Chrome or whatever else browser you like, set that browser a default one, remove IE tile from "Metro style" START screen etc. >>> >>> Thank you. >>> >>> -- Shamil >>> >>> ???????, 14 ??????? 2012, 7:15 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen < hans.andersen at phulse.com >: >>>> >>>> Here you go: >>>> >>>> EU antitrust regulators let Microsoft limit browsers on Windows RT - >>>> http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9232884/EU_antitrust_regulators_let_Microsoft_limit_browsers_on_Windows_RT >>>> >>>> >>>> Best regards, >>>> Hans-Christian Andersen >>>> >>>> >>>> On 14 Dec 2012, at 02:57, Salakhetdinov Shamil < mcp2004 at mail.ru > wrote: >>>> >>>>> <<< >>>>> On WinRT, Microsoft restricts access to APIs to the extent that its impossible. >>>>> Please provide links on information proving that statement. >>>>> At least for WinRT one can develop apps using HTML5 and JavaScript running within IE instance probably - do you mean WinRT will block external third-parties API/Web services calls even in this case? >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> dba-Tech mailing list >>>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> dba-Tech mailing list >>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Dec 17 00:35:40 2012 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2012 10:35:40 +0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] =?utf-8?q?Internet_Explorer_Data_Leakage_=28versions_6?= =?utf-8?q?_to_10=29?= In-Reply-To: <0ABB87C0-61D6-4DF3-A2A7-183BD5F1AED3@phulse.com> References: <1355682978.466547089@f348.mail.ru> <0ABB87C0-61D6-4DF3-A2A7-183BD5F1AED3@phulse.com> Message-ID: <1355726140.534448745@f392.i.mail.ru> Hi Hans -- Thank you for the link. AFAIU the only issue is that WOA (Windows On ARM AKA WindowsRT for ARM) doesn't allow FireFox (or other third party) developers (who BTW were the only ones to raise that issue?) to compile JavaScript on run-time into an executable machine code and to run that machine code from within their own browser application.?As several commentators to the article, which link you have posted, proposed FireFox developers can use MS Trident engine -? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trident_(layout_engine ). If that is true then I do no see the real reasons for FireFox developers to complain. Especially taking into account the following reasoning coming from Steven Sinofsky (that time - FEB 2012 - Windows 8/Windows RT design "main person"): http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2012/02/09/building-windows-for-the-arm-processor-architecture.aspx <<<<<<<<<< Our focus on delivering a new level of security for consumers using WOA is paramount. In one public event, we were asked if we would ?make it easy for existing viruses and malware to run.? Now you can see the answer is decidedly, ?no.? In fact, WOA only supports running code that has been distributed through Windows Update along with the full spectrum of Windows Store applications. As we all know, security is an industry-wide, multi-dimensional challenge and no system or platform can make broad claims without considering many factors. >>>>>>>>>> <<<<<<<< Previously we have detailed that WOA will not support any type of virtualization or emulation approach, and will not enable existing x86/64 applications to be ported or run. Supporting various forms of emulation runs counter to the goal of delivering a product that takes a modern approach to system reliability and predictability?by definition, existing code has not been optimized for the platform the way WOA has. Virtualized or emulated software will consume system resources, including battery life and CPU, at unacceptable levels. Emulation and virtualization of existing x86/64 software also require the traditional PC environment of mouse and keyboard, which is not a good assumption for WOA PCs. If we enabled the broad porting of existing code we would fail to deliver on our commitment to longer battery life, predictable performance, and especially a reliable experience over time. The conventions used by today?s Windows apps do not necessarily provide this, whether it is background processes, polling loops, timers, system hooks, startup programs, registry changes, kernel mode code, admin rights, unsigned drivers, add-ins, or a host of other common techniques. By avoiding these constructs, WOA can deliver on a new level of customer satisfaction: your WOA PC will continue to perform well over time as apps are isolated from the system and each other, and you will remain in control of what additional software is running on your behalf, all while letting the capabilities of diverse hardware shine through. >>>>>>>>> <<<<<<<<< Of course, we recognize that many developers at Microsoft and elsewhere rely on existing programming techniques, and that a transition to WOA will require an investment. Developing apps based on WinRT addresses these and many other challenges from the start?WinRT is designed to provide the full expressive power required for modern software while avoiding the traps and pitfalls that can potentially reduce the overall experience for consumers and does so with a deep commitment to tools, languages, and developer support. >>>>>>>>> Thank you. -- Shamil ???????????, 16 ??????? 2012, 13:43 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen : > >This concerns the Win32 API in more detail, from the horses mouth: >http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/asa/archives/2012/05/why-windows-classic-.html > >If this isn't sufficient for you, then you might need to explain what kind of facts you are looking for. > > >- Hans > ><<<< skipped >>> From hans.andersen at phulse.com Mon Dec 17 02:31:21 2012 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2012 00:31:21 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] Internet Explorer Data Leakage (versions 6 to 10) In-Reply-To: <1355726140.534448745@f392.i.mail.ru> References: <1355682978.466547089@f348.mail.ru> <0ABB87C0-61D6-4DF3-A2A7-183BD5F1AED3@phulse.com> <1355726140.534448745@f392.i.mail.ru> Message-ID: Hi Shamil, > As several commentators to the article, which link you have posted, proposed FireFox developers can use MS Trident engine - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trident_(layout_engine ). If that is true then I do no see the real reasons for FireFox developers to complain. I would be a hypocrite if I were to personally condemn this, because this is exactly what Apple has been doing since 2008 and I am quite happy to defend the walled garden approach to iPhones & iPads as a reasonable compromise for a platform that needs it more than traditional desktop/laptop computers. I will, however, some times poke fun at those people who had previously criticized Apple's walled garden, but now praise Microsoft when they are doing the exact same thing. The original discussion was about a serious leakage flaw in Internet Explorer and Jim asked if it was possible to run other browsers on Windows 8 and this is how we eventually got to this point in our discussion. As it turns out, it is not possible to run other browsers on WOA/WinRT. You can embed IE's Trident engine into your browser, but you are essentially just putting a wolf in sheep's clothing. At the end of your day, your "browser" is pretty much a stripped down IE but with your own UI layout and features. This is what Mozilla is complaining about (and this is why you don't see Firefox on iOS). To be fair, I can see it from their point of view. They've spent a lot of time and effort building a browser engine that they believe is better than IE and then they are forced to scrap all that and make do with IE's Trident engine. Users of Firefox will be confused, because they will believe they are actually running the same Firefox engine as what exists on the desktop, when that is actually not true. They are simply running IE with Firefox's logo slapped on top of it. Why should they bother? - Hans On 2012-12-16, at 10:35 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi Hans -- > > Thank you for the link. > > AFAIU the only issue is that WOA (Windows On ARM AKA WindowsRT for ARM) doesn't allow FireFox (or other third party) developers (who BTW were the only ones to raise that issue?) to compile JavaScript on run-time into an executable machine code and to run that machine code from within their own browser application. As several commentators to the article, which link you have posted, proposed FireFox developers can use MS Trident engine - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trident_(layout_engine ). If that is true then I do no see the real reasons for FireFox developers to complain. Especially taking into account the following reasoning coming from Steven Sinofsky (that time - FEB 2012 - Windows 8/Windows RT design "main person"): > > http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2012/02/09/building-windows-for-the-arm-processor-architecture.aspx > > <<<<<<<<<< > Our focus on delivering a new level of security for consumers using WOA is paramount. In one public event, we were asked if we would ?make it easy for existing viruses and malware to run.? Now you can see the answer is decidedly, ?no.? In fact, WOA only supports running code that has been distributed through Windows Update along with the full spectrum of Windows Store applications. As we all know, security is an industry-wide, multi-dimensional challenge and no system or platform can make broad claims without considering many factors. >>>>>>>>>>> > > <<<<<<<< > Previously we have detailed that WOA will not support any type of virtualization or emulation approach, and will not enable existing x86/64 applications to be ported or run. Supporting various forms of emulation runs counter to the goal of delivering a product that takes a modern approach to system reliability and predictability?by definition, existing code has not been optimized for the platform the way WOA has. Virtualized or emulated software will consume system resources, including battery life and CPU, at unacceptable levels. Emulation and virtualization of existing x86/64 software also require the traditional PC environment of mouse and keyboard, which is not a good assumption for WOA PCs. > If we enabled the broad porting of existing code we would fail to deliver on our commitment to longer battery life, predictable performance, and especially a reliable experience over time. The conventions used by today?s Windows apps do not necessarily provide this, whether it is background processes, polling loops, timers, system hooks, startup programs, registry changes, kernel mode code, admin rights, unsigned drivers, add-ins, or a host of other common techniques. By avoiding these constructs, WOA can deliver on a new level of customer satisfaction: your WOA PC will continue to perform well over time as apps are isolated from the system and each other, and you will remain in control of what additional software is running on your behalf, all while letting the capabilities of diverse hardware shine through. >>>>>>>>>> > > <<<<<<<<< > Of course, we recognize that many developers at Microsoft and elsewhere rely on existing programming techniques, and that a transition to WOA will require an investment. Developing apps based on WinRT addresses these and many other challenges from the start?WinRT is designed to provide the full expressive power required for modern software while avoiding the traps and pitfalls that can potentially reduce the overall experience for consumers and does so with a deep commitment to tools, languages, and developer support. >>>>>>>>> > > > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > > > > ???????????, 16 ??????? 2012, 13:43 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen : >> >> This concerns the Win32 API in more detail, from the horses mouth: >> http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/asa/archives/2012/05/why-windows-classic-.html >> >> If this isn't sufficient for you, then you might need to explain what kind of facts you are looking for. >> >> >> - Hans >> >> <<<< skipped >>> > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Dec 17 06:04:04 2012 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2012 16:04:04 +0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] =?utf-8?q?Internet_Explorer_Data_Leakage_=28versions_6?= =?utf-8?q?_to_10=29?= In-Reply-To: References: <1355726140.534448745@f392.i.mail.ru> Message-ID: <1355745844.159702211@f377.i.mail.ru> Hi Hans -- <<< The original discussion was about a serious leakage flaw in Internet Explorer and Jim asked if it was possible to run other browsers on Windows 8 and this is how we eventually got to this point in our discussion. >>> Yes, so let's have now the subject line changed to stay on new topic of WOA/WintRT "walled garden" approach? <<< I will, however, some times poke fun at those people who had previously criticized Apple's walled garden, but now praise Microsoft when they are doing the exact same thing. >>> Yes! ?- please notice I didn't criticize Apple's "walled garden" approach, did I? ?If I did and I'm missing that my past Apple's criticism now please point me on it. <<< ?You can embed IE's Trident engine into your browser, but you are essentially just putting a wolf in sheep's clothing. At the end of your day, your "browser" is pretty much a stripped down IE but with your own UI layout and features. >>> But you can use MS Trident Engine to just have JavaScript compiled and executed as speedy as IE does use it, can't you?? And for the rest - rendering HTML(5)/CSS etc. - you can use DirectX working as close as possible to the "bare metal"? Or JavaScript compilation and execution part of Trident Engine is so closely coupled with HTML(5)/CSS rendering functionality/components that it can't be "decoupled" and used as FireFox for WOA component? Or Trident Engine doesn't allow to "hook" executing within itself JavaScript code modifying HTML/CSS to have third-party HTML rendering engine to implement their own HTML/CSS rendering more effectively than IE does do it? <<< ?They've spent a lot of time and effort building a browser engine that they believe is better than IE and then they are forced to scrap all that and make do with IE's Trident engine. >>> But WOA is a new hardware platform - does MS have any obligations to keep compatibility of any third-party applications for every new hardware platform they (MS) will port MS Windows or IE? Yes, I know MS didn't do well with compatibility even of their own development tools/languages - VB6 being one of the most well-known examples. But WOA is a "different story" in my opinion. I can be wrong.?Please feel free to "poke some fun" on my reasoning :) Thank you. -- Shamil ???????????, 17 ??????? 2012, 0:31 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen : << tail skipped to get through ?dba-VB 20KB ?message size limit >>> From fuller.artful at gmail.com Mon Dec 17 08:42:08 2012 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2012 09:42:08 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Permanently disable the Windows 8 tiled UI Message-ID: The current issue of InfoPackets contains an article that describes how to do this, using a utility called Ex7ForW8 (Explorer 7 for Windows 8). Apparently, this approach consumes less memory while not sacrificing the increased boot-up time, etc. See: http://www.infopackets.com/news/software/windows_tips/2012/20121217_windows_8_permanently_disable_tiled_start_screen.htm -- Arthur Cell: 647.710.1314 Prediction is difficult, especially of the future. -- Niels Bohr From gustav at cactus.dk Mon Dec 17 09:46:13 2012 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2012 16:46:13 +0100 Subject: [dba-Tech] Permanently disable the Windows 8 tiled UI Message-ID: <008e01cddc6d$a4df3550$ee9d9ff0$@cactus.dk> Hi Arthur All such trouble so save 1 (one) mouse click? And, if you let your pc go to sleep, it will wake up where you left it. Nothing to install. With Win8, MS has driven the sleep function to near perfection. Besides, when the author claims that your pc will run faster due to a few MB more of free memory, all credits are lost. /gustav -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Arthur Fuller Sendt: 17. december 2012 15:42 Til: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Emne: [dba-Tech] Permanently disable the Windows 8 tiled UI The current issue of InfoPackets contains an article that describes how to do this, using a utility called Ex7ForW8 (Explorer 7 for Windows 8). Apparently, this approach consumes less memory while not sacrificing the increased boot-up time, etc. See: http://www.infopackets.com/news/software/windows_tips/2012/20121217_windows_ 8_permanently_disable_tiled_start_screen.htm -- Arthur Cell: 647.710.1314 Prediction is difficult, especially of the future. -- Niels Bohr From fuller.artful at gmail.com Mon Dec 17 09:55:29 2012 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2012 10:55:29 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Permanently disable the Windows 8 tiled UI In-Reply-To: <008e01cddc6d$a4df3550$ee9d9ff0$@cactus.dk> References: <008e01cddc6d$a4df3550$ee9d9ff0$@cactus.dk> Message-ID: That was pretty much my point, Gustav. It struck me a little like attaching a horse to the front of a car. A. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon Dec 17 14:41:59 2012 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2012 06:41:59 +1000 Subject: [dba-Tech] Permanently disable the Windows 8 tiled UI In-Reply-To: References: <008e01cddc6d$a4df3550$ee9d9ff0$@cactus.dk>, Message-ID: <50CF8397.7019.60D14F06@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Which one best exemplifies Win8RT ? http://www.curbsideclassic.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Horse-pulling-car.jpg or http://m5.paperblog.com/i/25/256085/just-say-neigh-10-modern-horse-drawn-carriage-L-TlbT uI.png :-) -- Stuart On 17 Dec 2012 at 10:55, Arthur Fuller wrote: > That was pretty much my point, Gustav. It struck me a little like attaching > a horse to the front of a car. > > A. > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From hans.andersen at phulse.com Mon Dec 17 17:51:57 2012 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2012 15:51:57 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] Internet Explorer Data Leakage (versions 6 to 10) In-Reply-To: <1355745844.159702211@f377.i.mail.ru> References: <1355726140.534448745@f392.i.mail.ru> <1355745844.159702211@f377.i.mail.ru> Message-ID: > Yes, so let's have now the subject line changed to stay on new topic of WOA/WintRT "walled garden" approach? Sure, if that's what you would prefer. > Yes! - please notice I didn't criticize Apple's "walled garden" approach, did I? If I did and I'm missing that my past Apple's criticism now please point me on it. I wasn't suggesting you did. > But you can use MS Trident Engine to just have JavaScript compiled and executed as speedy as IE does use it, can't you? And for the rest - rendering HTML(5)/CSS etc. - you can use DirectX working as close as possible to the "bare metal"? Or JavaScript compilation and execution part of Trident Engine is so closely coupled with HTML(5)/CSS rendering functionality/components that it can't be "decoupled" and used as FireFox for WOA component? Or Trident Engine doesn't allow to "hook" executing within itself JavaScript code modifying HTML/CSS to have third-party HTML rendering engine to implement their own HTML/CSS rendering more effectively than IE does do it? Sure. Like I said, when it comes to my tablet / phone, I am comfortable picking security over convenience/flexibility. I was providing the facts of the situation. As for whether any of your solutions are technically feasible in WinRT, I do not know, since I do not develop software for that platform and have no intimate knowledge. Also, I do not know whether embedding an IE viewport in your application provides identical performance as with running IE directly. This would be interesting to find out. > But WOA is a new hardware platform - does MS have any obligations to keep compatibility of any third-party applications for every new hardware platform they (MS) will port MS Windows or IE? Yes, I know MS didn't do well with compatibility even of their own development tools/languages - VB6 being one of the most well-known examples. But WOA is a "different story" in my opinion. I can be wrong. Please feel free to "poke some fun" on my reasoning :) The issue here isn't about providing compatibility for third party applications. What Firefox and Chromes complain here is that the platform and the API is so locked down that they are unable to effectively port their browsers to it and that Microsoft's IE browser will always have the advantage, due to their access to API's that other Metro applications have no access to. What they are saying is absolutely fair from their perspective (and this is also the reason why Firefox has not ported their browser to iOS). There are no technical reasons why Microsoft couldn't grant access to restricted API's to certain trusted companies, but this is the approach they are taking none-the-less. Also, the reason we are only seeing these restrictions on WinRT/WOA (and not on Intel platforms) is because Microsoft can use the justification that Microsoft does not have a monopoly in the ARM-based tablet / phone market and Apple does this and they get away with it. This is somewhat justifiable from Microsoft's perspective and is likely what is allowing them to not get in trouble with regulators, but it also means that companies producing software that compete with Microsoft's own solutions (ie. web browsers, office products, etc) are effectively being put at a disadvantage and this is what they find alarming. Hope this makes sense. Again, just stating the facts of the matter, not my personal opinion. - Hans On 2012-12-17, at 4:04 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi Hans -- > > <<< > The original discussion was about a serious leakage flaw in Internet Explorer and Jim asked if it was possible to run other browsers on Windows 8 and this is how we eventually got to this point in our discussion. >>>> > Yes, so let's have now the subject line changed to stay on new topic of WOA/WintRT "walled garden" approach? > > <<< > I will, however, some times poke fun at those people who had previously criticized Apple's walled garden, but now praise Microsoft when they are doing the exact same thing. >>>> > Yes! - please notice I didn't criticize Apple's "walled garden" approach, did I? If I did and I'm missing that my past Apple's criticism now please point me on it. > > <<< > You can embed IE's Trident engine into your browser, but you are essentially just putting a wolf in sheep's clothing. At the end of your day, your "browser" is pretty much a stripped down IE but with your own UI layout and features. >>>> > But you can use MS Trident Engine to just have JavaScript compiled and executed as speedy as IE does use it, can't you? > And for the rest - rendering HTML(5)/CSS etc. - you can use DirectX working as close as possible to the "bare metal"? > Or JavaScript compilation and execution part of Trident Engine is so closely coupled with HTML(5)/CSS rendering functionality/components that it can't be "decoupled" and used as FireFox for WOA component? > Or Trident Engine doesn't allow to "hook" executing within itself JavaScript code modifying HTML/CSS to have third-party HTML rendering engine to implement their own HTML/CSS rendering more effectively than IE does do it? > > <<< > They've spent a lot of time and effort building a browser engine that they believe is better than IE and then they are forced to scrap all that and make do with IE's Trident engine. >>>> > But WOA is a new hardware platform - does MS have any obligations to keep compatibility of any third-party applications for every new hardware platform they (MS) will port MS Windows or IE? Yes, I know MS didn't do well with compatibility even of their own development tools/languages - VB6 being one of the most well-known examples. But WOA is a "different story" in my opinion. I can be wrong. Please feel free to "poke some fun" on my reasoning :) > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > > ???????????, 17 ??????? 2012, 0:31 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen : > > << tail skipped to get through dba-VB 20KB message size limit >>> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From hans.andersen at phulse.com Mon Dec 17 18:02:55 2012 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2012 16:02:55 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] Internet Explorer Data Leakage (versions 6 to 10) In-Reply-To: References: <1355726140.534448745@f392.i.mail.ru> <1355745844.159702211@f377.i.mail.ru> Message-ID: <617C77DD-ADDA-4F1F-B06B-073EA1DB28E9@phulse.com> I'd also like to point out that Microsoft may well likely continue down the road of following Apple by example. One of Apple's approach to this problem of the walled garden and the need for access to restricted APIs has been to over time learn where the pain points are and find solutions for developers that need x, y or z, once they are able to figure out how to do it without compromising the security of the platform and whatever other concerns they had. Since this is Microsoft's first release of their Windows 8 tablet platform (their first real tablet platform), they may still be in the early days and things may improve over time. But they will need to get their act together on this, as it's a bit late in the game for them to be testing the waters, when Apple and Google (to a lesser extent) have had much much more time to figure these things out. - Hans On 2012-12-17, at 3:51 PM, Hans-Christian Andersen wrote: > >> Yes, so let's have now the subject line changed to stay on new topic of WOA/WintRT "walled garden" approach? > > Sure, if that's what you would prefer. > >> Yes! - please notice I didn't criticize Apple's "walled garden" approach, did I? If I did and I'm missing that my past Apple's criticism now please point me on it. > > I wasn't suggesting you did. > >> But you can use MS Trident Engine to just have JavaScript compiled and executed as speedy as IE does use it, can't you? And for the rest - rendering HTML(5)/CSS etc. - you can use DirectX working as close as possible to the "bare metal"? Or JavaScript compilation and execution part of Trident Engine is so closely coupled with HTML(5)/CSS rendering functionality/components that it can't be "decoupled" and used as FireFox for WOA component? Or Trident Engine doesn't allow to "hook" executing within itself JavaScript code modifying HTML/CSS to have third-party HTML rendering engine to implement their own HTML/CSS rendering more effectively than IE does do it? > > Sure. Like I said, when it comes to my tablet / phone, I am comfortable picking security over convenience/flexibility. I was providing the facts of the situation. > > As for whether any of your solutions are technically feasible in WinRT, I do not know, since I do not develop software for that platform and have no intimate knowledge. Also, I do not know whether embedding an IE viewport in your application provides identical performance as with running IE directly. This would be interesting to find out. > >> But WOA is a new hardware platform - does MS have any obligations to keep compatibility of any third-party applications for every new hardware platform they (MS) will port MS Windows or IE? Yes, I know MS didn't do well with compatibility even of their own development tools/languages - VB6 being one of the most well-known examples. But WOA is a "different story" in my opinion. I can be wrong. Please feel free to "poke some fun" on my reasoning :) > > The issue here isn't about providing compatibility for third party applications. What Firefox and Chromes complain here is that the platform and the API is so locked down that they are unable to effectively port their browsers to it and that Microsoft's IE browser will always have the advantage, due to their access to API's that other Metro applications have no access to. What they are saying is absolutely fair from their perspective (and this is also the reason why Firefox has not ported their browser to iOS). There are no technical reasons why Microsoft couldn't grant access to restricted API's to certain trusted companies, but this is the approach they are taking none-the-less. > > Also, the reason we are only seeing these restrictions on WinRT/WOA (and not on Intel platforms) is because Microsoft can use the justification that Microsoft does not have a monopoly in the ARM-based tablet / phone market and Apple does this and they get away with it. This is somewhat justifiable from Microsoft's perspective and is likely what is allowing them to not get in trouble with regulators, but it also means that companies producing software that compete with Microsoft's own solutions (ie. web browsers, office products, etc) are effectively being put at a disadvantage and this is what they find alarming. > > Hope this makes sense. Again, just stating the facts of the matter, not my personal opinion. > > > - Hans > > > > > > On 2012-12-17, at 4:04 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >> Hi Hans -- >> >> <<< >> The original discussion was about a serious leakage flaw in Internet Explorer and Jim asked if it was possible to run other browsers on Windows 8 and this is how we eventually got to this point in our discussion. >>>>> >> Yes, so let's have now the subject line changed to stay on new topic of WOA/WintRT "walled garden" approach? >> >> <<< >> I will, however, some times poke fun at those people who had previously criticized Apple's walled garden, but now praise Microsoft when they are doing the exact same thing. >>>>> >> Yes! - please notice I didn't criticize Apple's "walled garden" approach, did I? If I did and I'm missing that my past Apple's criticism now please point me on it. >> >> <<< >> You can embed IE's Trident engine into your browser, but you are essentially just putting a wolf in sheep's clothing. At the end of your day, your "browser" is pretty much a stripped down IE but with your own UI layout and features. >>>>> >> But you can use MS Trident Engine to just have JavaScript compiled and executed as speedy as IE does use it, can't you? >> And for the rest - rendering HTML(5)/CSS etc. - you can use DirectX working as close as possible to the "bare metal"? >> Or JavaScript compilation and execution part of Trident Engine is so closely coupled with HTML(5)/CSS rendering functionality/components that it can't be "decoupled" and used as FireFox for WOA component? >> Or Trident Engine doesn't allow to "hook" executing within itself JavaScript code modifying HTML/CSS to have third-party HTML rendering engine to implement their own HTML/CSS rendering more effectively than IE does do it? >> >> <<< >> They've spent a lot of time and effort building a browser engine that they believe is better than IE and then they are forced to scrap all that and make do with IE's Trident engine. >>>>> >> But WOA is a new hardware platform - does MS have any obligations to keep compatibility of any third-party applications for every new hardware platform they (MS) will port MS Windows or IE? Yes, I know MS didn't do well with compatibility even of their own development tools/languages - VB6 being one of the most well-known examples. But WOA is a "different story" in my opinion. I can be wrong. Please feel free to "poke some fun" on my reasoning :) >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- Shamil >> >> >> ???????????, 17 ??????? 2012, 0:31 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen : >> >> << tail skipped to get through dba-VB 20KB message size limit >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Dec 18 01:03:20 2012 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2012 11:03:20 +0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] =?utf-8?q?WOA/WinRT_=22walled_garden=22=2E_Was=3A_Re?= =?utf-8?q?=5B2=5D=3A__Internet_Explorer_Data_Leakage_=28versions_6_to_10?= =?utf-8?q?=29?= In-Reply-To: References: <1355745844.159702211@f377.i.mail.ru> Message-ID: <1355814200.421919016@f374.mail.ru> Hi Hans -- Thank you for your replies. Please note I have changed the subject line. Please also note that dba-Tech is limiting my messages' total length to 20KB so I can't quote your replies' full text. This promise to be an endless thread so let's try to wrap it out now? Let me say that: 1) I suppose that what we're expressing here are our opinions, our interpretations of facts and AFAIS that our interpretations do differ significantly. That's OK. 2) I suppose MS representatives has clearly stated what were the technical reasons to build a "walled garden" around WOA/WinRT core/system API -? http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2012/02/09/building-windows-for-the-arm-processor-architecture.aspx 3) If MS will now allow to "get through the walled garden" to some selected third-party companies then the other ones will definitely complain, and the whole idea/concept of the "walled garden" will get corrupted together with WOA/WinRT platform. MS can't get "walled garden" weakened now but they can let such a "weakening" to happen in the (near) future when they will have more information and experience on handling "walled garden pain points". 4) There are no any clear facts to look for a "conspiracy theory" reasons behind the WOA/WinRT "walled garden" and EU?antitrust regulators?indirectly pointed on that by "letting Microsoft to limit browsers on Windows RT":? http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9232884/EU_antitrust_regulators_let_Microsoft_limit_browsers_on_Windows_RT 5) FireFox developers complaints ( http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/asa/archives/2012/05/why-windows-classic-.html ) are about APIs while actually the only(?) feature they have closed access to is (JavaScript) run-time compilationh and execution from within FireFox WOA/WinRT browser they wanted to develop/port to WOA/WinRT: equivalent feature is available on WOA/WinRT for third-party developers via MS Trident Engine in a "walled garden" mode but working as speedy as it would work if implemented in system mode. 6) Any talks on "monopolization of tablets browsers market" are irrelevant nowadays as Microsoft WOA/WinRT is hardly taking a few percents of the whole market share of tablets.? 7) It may well happen that the "walled garden barrier" common for all the modern tablet operating systems will get advanced implementation in the (near) future WOA/WinRT releases to let third-party's components to work in a (limited) system mode where run-time code compilation and execution will be allowed. Thank you. -- Shamil? ???????????, 17 ??????? 2012, 15:51 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen : > >> Yes, so let's have now the subject line changed to stay on new topic of WOA/WintRT "walled garden" approach? > >Sure, if that's what you would prefer. <<< skipped >>> > From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Dec 18 13:45:03 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2012 11:45:03 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] A new super Virtual server In-Reply-To: <1355814200.421919016@f374.mail.ru> References: <1355745844.159702211@f377.i.mail.ru> <1355814200.421919016@f374.mail.ru> Message-ID: I have been checking out the virtual server options, not clients, for a customer and ran across the apparent best option. Looked at the obvious choices VMWare, VirtualBox and Hyper-V but then ran across the following package. It is a virtual server called Proxmox VE. It is an OSS package built on top of Debian Linux. It is fully enterprise ready, has a full GUI, but will need one line of command code if you want to cluster the product. http://www.proxmox.com/ http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proxmox_VE It is supposed to be the fastest and stablist product of its kind and many sites are now using it with great success. I have not used it myself but understand there are full online support options as well as very active forums. So if you want to put together a Virtual server at your home or business check this out. Below is a video which does a review on Proxmox and actually talks with some tech that have been using the product for a few years http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIoy50glL6Y&list=SP1438E85AF384217E&index=133 Jim From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Dec 19 13:35:13 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2012 11:35:13 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] A new super Virtual server In-Reply-To: References: <1355745844.159702211@f377.i.mail.ru><1355814200.421919016@f374.mail.ru> Message-ID: <100FD52E52094569BF10F695F7A28406@creativesystemdesigns.com> PS One more link to help with getting your Proxmox server up and running. http://pve.proxmox.com/wiki/Main_Page Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2012 11:45 AM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: [dba-Tech] A new super Virtual server I have been checking out the virtual server options, not clients, for a customer and ran across the apparent best option. Looked at the obvious choices VMWare, VirtualBox and Hyper-V but then ran across the following package. It is a virtual server called Proxmox VE. It is an OSS package built on top of Debian Linux. It is fully enterprise ready, has a full GUI, but will need one line of command code if you want to cluster the product. http://www.proxmox.com/ http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proxmox_VE It is supposed to be the fastest and stablist product of its kind and many sites are now using it with great success. I have not used it myself but understand there are full online support options as well as very active forums. So if you want to put together a Virtual server at your home or business check this out. Below is a video which does a review on Proxmox and actually talks with some tech that have been using the product for a few years http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIoy50glL6Y&list=SP1438E85AF384217E&index=133 Jim _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Dec 19 13:53:00 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2012 11:53:00 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] Need a good free video editor? In-Reply-To: <100FD52E52094569BF10F695F7A28406@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <1355745844.159702211@f377.i.mail.ru><1355814200.421919016@f374.mail.ru> <100FD52E52094569BF10F695F7A28406@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: For those who need a good free video editor (with a PRO upgrade; if required.) " Lightworks NLE - Designed by editors, for editors Some of the finest films of the past 20 years have been edited with Lightworks. We're proud of its heritage and we want to share it with you. for free. Read more about Lightworks and discover why Oscar-winning editors across the world use it every day. The latest Lightworks v11.0.3 installer available for Windows only. Compatible with Windows XP, Windows Vista, Windows 7 32 bit and Windows 7 64 bit. " http://www.lwks.com/ Jim From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Dec 19 14:10:59 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2012 12:10:59 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] What is Maluuba In-Reply-To: <100FD52E52094569BF10F695F7A28406@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <1355745844.159702211@f377.i.mail.ru><1355814200.421919016@f374.mail.ru> <100FD52E52094569BF10F695F7A28406@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <32D22FD242CF4B89B8725054C785249D@creativesystemdesigns.com> If you Smartphones users have not already installed Maluuba or know what it is check it out. Below is some info on the product and where you can get it. What is Maluuba http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maluuba Canadian Startup Maluuba Believes New App Beats Apple's Siri and Google Now http://www.techvibes.com/blog/apple-siri-google-now-maluuba-2012-12-12 https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.maluuba.android&hl=en Maluuba app can be used in conjunction with other apps http://techcrunch.com/2012/11/14/maluuba-launches-natural-language-processin g-api-brings-siri-like-powers-to-any-app/ Get your free personal assistance app at http://www.maluuba.com/ Jim From jon at tydda.plus.com Wed Dec 19 17:54:13 2012 From: jon at tydda.plus.com (Jon Tydda) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2012 23:54:13 -0000 Subject: [dba-Tech] AV on a server In-Reply-To: <01ed01cdd97a$20cee580$626cb080$@winhaven.net> References: <31B2BB117ED54E5CA3C39DFB34ED03A1@HAL9007> <01ed01cdd97a$20cee580$626cb080$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <00eb01cdde44$2672e9e0$7358bda0$@tydda.plus.com> Yes, and make it a different product to the one you use on the desktops. That way you'll catch things that aren't being picked up... Jon -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: 13 December 2012 21:38 To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] AV on a server Yes -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 1:19 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'; List Subject: [dba-Tech] AV on a server Question arose at customer site that I hadn't thought about before. Any reason to put AV on the server? Most virii are coming from email or web sites and if you're not doing email or browsing on the server, should you AV anyway? TIA Rocky _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Wed Dec 19 20:55:29 2012 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2012 21:55:29 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Convert Word to HTML Message-ID: I thought there was a Save As option that did this, but I can't see it now (Word 2007). Is there a convenient way to convert? The Word files in question often contain snippets of T-SQL code copied and pasted from SSMS, so the code is formatted and colour-coded too, and I'd like that to be preserved if possible. The files, incidentally, are all saved in 2003 format. TIA, Arthur From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Dec 19 22:00:55 2012 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2012 14:00:55 +1000 Subject: [dba-Tech] Convert Word to HTML In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <50D28D77.23914.6CAF9B7E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Look again. It's definitely there in 2003 and 2010 :-). But be aware that MS applications generate the most convoluted, bloated HTML that you will ever have the misfortune to see, -- Stuart On 19 Dec 2012 at 21:55, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I thought there was a Save As option that did this, but I can't see it now > (Word 2007). Is there a convenient way to convert? The Word files in > question often contain snippets of T-SQL code copied and pasted from SSMS, > so the code is formatted and colour-coded too, and I'd like that to be > preserved if possible. > > The files, incidentally, are all saved in 2003 format. > > TIA, > Arthur > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From garykjos at gmail.com Thu Dec 20 08:59:54 2012 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2012 08:59:54 -0600 Subject: [dba-Tech] Convert Word to HTML In-Reply-To: <50D28D77.23914.6CAF9B7E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <50D28D77.23914.6CAF9B7E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: The office apps also sometimes hide options and only show choices you have used before. There is a display all options option somewhere that always shows all options on menus. On Wednesday, December 19, 2012, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > Look again. It's definitely there in 2003 and 2010 :-). > > But be aware that MS applications generate the most convoluted, bloated HTML that you will > ever have the misfortune to see, > > > > -- > Stuart > > > On 19 Dec 2012 at 21:55, Arthur Fuller wrote: > >> I thought there was a Save As option that did this, but I can't see it now >> (Word 2007). Is there a convenient way to convert? The Word files in >> question often contain snippets of T-SQL code copied and pasted from SSMS, >> so the code is formatted and colour-coded too, and I'd like that to be >> preserved if possible. >> >> The files, incidentally, are all saved in 2003 format. >> >> TIA, >> Arthur >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Fri Dec 21 04:49:43 2012 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2012 05:49:43 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Convert Word to HTML In-Reply-To: References: <50D28D77.23914.6CAF9B7E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: I'll try that, and thanks! And also, merry Christmas and all the best in the coming year. From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Dec 26 07:07:55 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2012 05:07:55 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] Computer In-Reply-To: <32D22FD242CF4B89B8725054C785249D@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <1355745844.159702211@f377.i.mail.ru><1355814200.421919016@f374.mail.ru><100FD52E52094569BF10F695F7A28406@creativesystemdesigns.com> <32D22FD242CF4B89B8725054C785249D@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <77C96886D4DC4791BD02A2172A6BB8EF@creativesystemdesigns.com> I would not look forward to building a career on the premise that the "Walled Garden" OS designs of Apple and now Windows is in a distant future. Apple approach to have absolute control and the billing for everything that appears on their desktop has been extremely successful. Microsoft is now following a tied and true approach and they now see the "easy" access to the desktop as a disadvantage. The new approach in design leaves little reason for Tech Support involvement as unless a Tech is managing extended networks, servers or proprietary software, support is not needed. Here is the link to a good article on the subject: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/11/06/dont_bet_on_microsoft/ My suggestion for the future is to diversify in OS support; do not become or remain dependant on Microsoft/Apple for your bread and butter and focus more on broad based infrastructure, server, database and even web-support skills. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-ot-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-ot-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2012 9:32 AM To: 'Off Topic' Subject: Re: [dba-OT] Computer Looking to the distant future I'd agree :-) Looking to the present and near future - currently working on a script to make Win8 more Win7 like ;-) -----Original Message----- From: dba-ot-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-ot-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2012 8:48 AM To: 'Off Topic' Subject: Re: [dba-OT] Computer Win7 is our past but Win8 is our future. (?) Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-ot-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-ot-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Monday, December 24, 2012 12:06 PM To: 'Off Topic' Subject: Re: [dba-OT] Computer I see that with Win8 but not in Win7. -----Original Message----- From: dba-ot-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-ot-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Monday, December 24, 2012 1:20 PM To: 'Off Topic' Subject: Re: [dba-OT] Computer All new Windows versions like Apple products has what they call the "Walled Garden" approach. The translation is really; "We don't allow any competition within our OS". It should be more accurately described as the "Walled Prison" approach. Long live Linux. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-ot-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-ot-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 3:41 PM To: 'Off Topic' Subject: Re: [dba-OT] Computer Honestly Susan you should get a nice new machine with Windows 7 while you still can. I can't imagine windows 9 doing anything but adding more change. Windows 7 is so close to XP that most people don't even notice the UI differences after the first couple hours. But it is also so much nicer. -----Original Message----- From: dba-ot-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-ot-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 5:15 PM To: Off Topic Subject: Re: [dba-OT] Computer Maybe I'll wait for Windows 9. :) Susan H. > Susan, > OE was done away when Vista came out. It had Windows Mail which was a > rewrite of OE, then they even left that out of Windows 7 and had > Windows Live Mail which is much more of desktop/web mashup. It stills > works similar to OE though. Windows 8 mail is like something a > kindergartener drew up just before nap time ;-) _______________________________________________ dba-OT mailing list dba-OT at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-ot Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From hans.andersen at phulse.com Wed Dec 26 11:26:19 2012 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2012 09:26:19 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] Computer In-Reply-To: <77C96886D4DC4791BD02A2172A6BB8EF@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <1355745844.159702211@f377.i.mail.ru> <1355814200.421919016@f374.mail.ru> <100FD52E52094569BF10F695F7A28406@creativesystemdesigns.com> <32D22FD242CF4B89B8725054C785249D@creativesystemdesigns.com> <77C96886D4DC4791BD02A2172A6BB8EF@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Applications are going to move more into the cloud in the near future (desktop apps will disappear) and the two dominant players there will be Amazon and OpenStack - and it would be a wise move to get rather comfortable with Linux, because it already runs most of the Internet. Unfortunately, with the exception of OpenStack, these cloud services will and already are often walled gardens. Where there is economic incentive, there will always be companies going with the walled garden approach unfortunately. This is why OpenStack is going to be quite important as many smaller cloud providers are adopting it. Best regards, Hans-Christian Andersen On 26 Dec 2012, at 05:07, "Jim Lawrence" wrote: > I would not look forward to building a career on the premise that the > "Walled Garden" OS designs of Apple and now Windows is in a distant future. > > Apple approach to have absolute control and the billing for everything that > appears on their desktop has been extremely successful. Microsoft is now > following a tied and true approach and they now see the "easy" access to the > desktop as a disadvantage. > > The new approach in design leaves little reason for Tech Support involvement > as unless a Tech is managing extended networks, servers or proprietary > software, support is not needed. > > Here is the link to a good article on the subject: > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/11/06/dont_bet_on_microsoft/ > > My suggestion for the future is to diversify in OS support; do not become or > remain dependant on Microsoft/Apple for your bread and butter and focus more > on broad based infrastructure, server, database and even web-support skills. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-ot-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-ot-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow > Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2012 9:32 AM > To: 'Off Topic' > Subject: Re: [dba-OT] Computer > > Looking to the distant future I'd agree :-) > > Looking to the present and near future - currently working on a script to > make Win8 more Win7 like ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-ot-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-ot-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2012 8:48 AM > To: 'Off Topic' > Subject: Re: [dba-OT] Computer > > Win7 is our past but Win8 is our future. (?) > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-ot-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-ot-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow > Sent: Monday, December 24, 2012 12:06 PM > To: 'Off Topic' > Subject: Re: [dba-OT] Computer > > I see that with Win8 but not in Win7. > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-ot-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-ot-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Monday, December 24, 2012 1:20 PM > To: 'Off Topic' > Subject: Re: [dba-OT] Computer > > All new Windows versions like Apple products has what they call the "Walled > Garden" approach. The translation is really; "We don't allow any competition > within our OS". It should be more accurately described as the "Walled > Prison" approach. > > Long live Linux. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-ot-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-ot-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow > Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 3:41 PM > To: 'Off Topic' > Subject: Re: [dba-OT] Computer > > Honestly Susan you should get a nice new machine with Windows 7 while you > still can. I can't imagine windows 9 doing anything but adding more change. > Windows 7 is so close to XP that most people don't even notice the UI > differences after the first couple hours. But it is also so much nicer. > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-ot-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-ot-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins > Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 5:15 PM > To: Off Topic > Subject: Re: [dba-OT] Computer > > Maybe I'll wait for Windows 9. :) > > Susan H. > > >> Susan, >> OE was done away when Vista came out. It had Windows Mail which was a >> rewrite of OE, then they even left that out of Windows 7 and had >> Windows Live Mail which is much more of desktop/web mashup. It stills >> works similar to OE though. Windows 8 mail is like something a >> kindergartener drew up just before nap time ;-) > > _______________________________________________ > dba-OT mailing list > dba-OT at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-ot > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Wed Dec 26 12:45:02 2012 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2012 19:45:02 +0100 Subject: [dba-Tech] Computer Message-ID: Hi Jim I think it is the other way around; you could very well depend on Microsoft/Apple for your bread and butter work. /gustav >>> accessd at shaw.ca 26-12-12 14:07 >>> I would not look forward to building a career on the premise that the "Walled Garden" OS designs of Apple and now Windows is in a distant future. Apple approach to have absolute control and the billing for everything that appears on their desktop has been extremely successful. Microsoft is now following a tied and true approach and they now see the "easy" access to the desktop as a disadvantage. The new approach in design leaves little reason for Tech Support involvement as unless a Tech is managing extended networks, servers or proprietary software, support is not needed. Here is the link to a good article on the subject: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/11/06/dont_bet_on_microsoft/ My suggestion for the future is to diversify in OS support; do not become or remain dependant on Microsoft/Apple for your bread and butter and focus more on broad based infrastructure, server, database and even web-support skills. Jim From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Dec 26 13:14:19 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2012 11:14:19 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] Computer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <74C2A9130A6F4DB8A53C1550A2762015@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Gustav: Two questions immediately come to mind, why and how. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2012 10:45 AM To: dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Computer Hi Jim I think it is the other way around; you could very well depend on Microsoft/Apple for your bread and butter work. /gustav >>> accessd at shaw.ca 26-12-12 14:07 >>> I would not look forward to building a career on the premise that the "Walled Garden" OS designs of Apple and now Windows is in a distant future. Apple approach to have absolute control and the billing for everything that appears on their desktop has been extremely successful. Microsoft is now following a tied and true approach and they now see the "easy" access to the desktop as a disadvantage. The new approach in design leaves little reason for Tech Support involvement as unless a Tech is managing extended networks, servers or proprietary software, support is not needed. Here is the link to a good article on the subject: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/11/06/dont_bet_on_microsoft/ My suggestion for the future is to diversify in OS support; do not become or remain dependant on Microsoft/Apple for your bread and butter and focus more on broad based infrastructure, server, database and even web-support skills. Jim _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Dec 26 14:41:41 2012 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2012 21:41:41 +0100 Subject: [dba-Tech] Computer Message-ID: Hi Jim OK, I should have been more precise: Microsoft or (Microsoft and Apple). I wouldn't depend on Apple alone. Why: Corporations and businesses How: As you have done previously /gustav >>> accessd at shaw.ca 26-12-12 20:14 >>> Hi Gustav: Two questions immediately come to mind, why and how. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2012 10:45 AM To: dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Computer Hi Jim I think it is the other way around; you could very well depend on Microsoft/Apple for your bread and butter work. /gustav >>> accessd at shaw.ca 26-12-12 14:07 >>> I would not look forward to building a career on the premise that the "Walled Garden" OS designs of Apple and now Windows is in a distant future. Apple approach to have absolute control and the billing for everything that appears on their desktop has been extremely successful. Microsoft is now following a tied and true approach and they now see the "easy" access to the desktop as a disadvantage. The new approach in design leaves little reason for Tech Support involvement as unless a Tech is managing extended networks, servers or proprietary software, support is not needed. Here is the link to a good article on the subject: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/11/06/dont_bet_on_microsoft/ My suggestion for the future is to diversify in OS support; do not become or remain dependant on Microsoft/Apple for your bread and butter and focus more on broad based infrastructure, server, database and even web-support skills. Jim From hans.andersen at phulse.com Wed Dec 26 17:13:39 2012 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2012 15:13:39 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] Computer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0D83F556-078D-456F-A63B-855AA1B486F6@phulse.com> In the new reality we live in, the old rules no longer apply. - Hans On 2012-12-26, at 12:41 PM, "Gustav Brock" wrote: > Hi Jim > > OK, I should have been more precise: > > Microsoft or (Microsoft and Apple). > I wouldn't depend on Apple alone. > > Why: Corporations and businesses > How: As you have done previously > > /gustav > >>>> accessd at shaw.ca 26-12-12 20:14 >>> > Hi Gustav: > > Two questions immediately come to mind, why and how. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock > Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2012 10:45 AM > To: dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Computer > > Hi Jim > > I think it is the other way around; you could very well depend on > Microsoft/Apple for your bread and butter work. > > /gustav > >>>> accessd at shaw.ca 26-12-12 14:07 >>> > I would not look forward to building a career on the premise that the > "Walled Garden" OS designs of Apple and now Windows is in a distant future. > > Apple approach to have absolute control and the billing for everything that > appears on their desktop has been extremely successful. Microsoft is now > following a tied and true approach and they now see the "easy" access to the > desktop as a disadvantage. > > The new approach in design leaves little reason for Tech Support involvement > as unless a Tech is managing extended networks, servers or proprietary > software, support is not needed. > > Here is the link to a good article on the subject: > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/11/06/dont_bet_on_microsoft/ > > My suggestion for the future is to diversify in OS support; do not become or > remain dependant on Microsoft/Apple for your bread and butter and focus more > on broad based infrastructure, server, database and even web-support skills. > > Jim > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Dec 26 23:52:26 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2012 21:52:26 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] Computer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <841E77544CCD4C5899B47800204B05A5@creativesystemdesigns.com> When Microsoft controlled 95 percent of the desktop/PC market; focusing on MS was a good business decision. Apple from the get-go was a walled garden, so chances for profit made on their desktop, is very limited. Microsoft is now emulating their model and coupled with a realistic projection of MS only owning around 20 percent, of the market, in the next five years, makes it a limited bet. As I stated previously, focusing more on broad based infrastructure, server, database and even web-support skills, agrees with your Corporate needs...but corporate needs or even business requirements are more volatile and more fickle as Microsoft will only hold twenty percent of the market share. Any Corporation looks at those numbers very closely before jumping from XP. (Terrible but true.) If someone can offer a stable solution with huge savings, Business listens. I have been seeing an ever increasing acceptance of Linux solutions considering that Android is really a Linux distro, business servers are mostly Linux/Unix based and Web based solutions have no allegiance to an OS. I do think MS SQL Server and even Server 12 are a real bright spot for Microsoft and run well in Linux virtual drives but I think Techs, starting out and growing their business, would be well advised to wear a lot of different hats and not get trapped in a single narrowing market. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2012 12:42 PM To: dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Computer Hi Jim OK, I should have been more precise: Microsoft or (Microsoft and Apple). I wouldn't depend on Apple alone. Why: Corporations and businesses How: As you have done previously /gustav >>> accessd at shaw.ca 26-12-12 20:14 >>> Hi Gustav: Two questions immediately come to mind, why and how. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2012 10:45 AM To: dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Computer Hi Jim I think it is the other way around; you could very well depend on Microsoft/Apple for your bread and butter work. /gustav >>> accessd at shaw.ca 26-12-12 14:07 >>> I would not look forward to building a career on the premise that the "Walled Garden" OS designs of Apple and now Windows is in a distant future. Apple approach to have absolute control and the billing for everything that appears on their desktop has been extremely successful. Microsoft is now following a tied and true approach and they now see the "easy" access to the desktop as a disadvantage. The new approach in design leaves little reason for Tech Support involvement as unless a Tech is managing extended networks, servers or proprietary software, support is not needed. Here is the link to a good article on the subject: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/11/06/dont_bet_on_microsoft/ My suggestion for the future is to diversify in OS support; do not become or remain dependant on Microsoft/Apple for your bread and butter and focus more on broad based infrastructure, server, database and even web-support skills. Jim _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Thu Dec 27 05:18:30 2012 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2012 12:18:30 +0100 Subject: [dba-Tech] Computer Message-ID: <002e01cde423$e6d85d20$b4891760$@cactus.dk> Hi Jim I know that story about 20% market share of Windows. However, you only reach that figure if you include each and every kid's phone and pad. What is of my interest is what businesses use, and that is Windows all over except for media oriented businesses where Macs are widely though not exclusively used. /gustav -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Jim Lawrence Sendt: 27. december 2012 06:52 Til: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Emne: Re: [dba-Tech] Computer When Microsoft controlled 95 percent of the desktop/PC market; focusing on MS was a good business decision. Apple from the get-go was a walled garden, so chances for profit made on their desktop, is very limited. Microsoft is now emulating their model and coupled with a realistic projection of MS only owning around 20 percent, of the market, in the next five years, makes it a limited bet. As I stated previously, focusing more on broad based infrastructure, server, database and even web-support skills, agrees with your Corporate needs...but corporate needs or even business requirements are more volatile and more fickle as Microsoft will only hold twenty percent of the market share. Any Corporation looks at those numbers very closely before jumping from XP. (Terrible but true.) If someone can offer a stable solution with huge savings, Business listens. I have been seeing an ever increasing acceptance of Linux solutions considering that Android is really a Linux distro, business servers are mostly Linux/Unix based and Web based solutions have no allegiance to an OS. I do think MS SQL Server and even Server 12 are a real bright spot for Microsoft and run well in Linux virtual drives but I think Techs, starting out and growing their business, would be well advised to wear a lot of different hats and not get trapped in a single narrowing market. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2012 12:42 PM To: dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Computer Hi Jim OK, I should have been more precise: Microsoft or (Microsoft and Apple). I wouldn't depend on Apple alone. Why: Corporations and businesses How: As you have done previously /gustav >>> accessd at shaw.ca 26-12-12 20:14 >>> Hi Gustav: Two questions immediately come to mind, why and how. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2012 10:45 AM To: dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Computer Hi Jim I think it is the other way around; you could very well depend on Microsoft/Apple for your bread and butter work. /gustav >>> accessd at shaw.ca 26-12-12 14:07 >>> I would not look forward to building a career on the premise that the "Walled Garden" OS designs of Apple and now Windows is in a distant future. Apple approach to have absolute control and the billing for everything that appears on their desktop has been extremely successful. Microsoft is now following a tied and true approach and they now see the "easy" access to the desktop as a disadvantage. The new approach in design leaves little reason for Tech Support involvement as unless a Tech is managing extended networks, servers or proprietary software, support is not needed. Here is the link to a good article on the subject: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/11/06/dont_bet_on_microsoft/ My suggestion for the future is to diversify in OS support; do not become or remain dependant on Microsoft/Apple for your bread and butter and focus more on broad based infrastructure, server, database and even web-support skills. Jim From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Dec 27 23:28:37 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2012 21:28:37 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] Fastest transfer speed rates set In-Reply-To: <002e01cde423$e6d85d20$b4891760$@cactus.dk> References: <002e01cde423$e6d85d20$b4891760$@cactus.dk> Message-ID: Between Victoria BC and Saltlake Utah the fastest web data transfer rates, in the world, were set, in November, of 339 Gbps. http://o.canada.com/2012/11/27/university-of-victoria-smashes-data-transfer- record/ My question is, "When do I get one?" Jim From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Dec 28 14:54:52 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2012 12:54:52 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] A new email client In-Reply-To: <002e01cde423$e6d85d20$b4891760$@cactus.dk> References: <002e01cde423$e6d85d20$b4891760$@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <8198853370B84C94B85BFB9A1D82699B@creativesystemdesigns.com> Is this the new and great email client? Here is a client called Inky that is supposed to be able to gather all you email sources, direct them to the cloud and provide a host of gathering, grouping and organizing features. http://inky.com/ Here is an introduction to the product and its features...maybe this will be your next email...and maybe it will give you all the sorting and grouping features that GMail doesn't and unlimited archival capacity with email access that MS Outlook can't. http://techcrunch.com/2012/12/27/inky-plans-to-reinvent-email-for-real-this- time/ Jim From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Dec 28 14:55:45 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2012 12:55:45 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] Faster data transfer speeds set In-Reply-To: <002e01cde423$e6d85d20$b4891760$@cactus.dk> References: <002e01cde423$e6d85d20$b4891760$@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <318E04E276544C4CB140BA590B23955B@creativesystemdesigns.com> Between Victoria BC and Saltlake Utah the fastest web data transfer rates, in the world, were set, in November, of 339 Gbps. http://o.canada.com/2012/11/27/university-of-victoria-smashes-data-transfer- record/ My question is, "When do I get one?" Jim From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Dec 27 23:13:36 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2012 21:13:36 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] A new email client? In-Reply-To: <002e01cde423$e6d85d20$b4891760$@cactus.dk> References: <002e01cde423$e6d85d20$b4891760$@cactus.dk> Message-ID: Is this the new and great email client? Here is a client called Inky that is supposed to be able to gather all you email sources, direct them to the cloud and provide a host of gathering, grouping and organizing features. http://inky.com/ Here is an introduction to the product and its features...maybe this will be your next email...and maybe it will give you all the sorting and grouping features that GMail doesn't and unlimited archival capacity with email access that MS Outlook can't. http://techcrunch.com/2012/12/27/inky-plans-to-reinvent-email-for-real-this- time/ Jim From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Dec 28 18:22:32 2012 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2012 10:22:32 +1000 Subject: [dba-Tech] A new email client? In-Reply-To: References: <002e01cde423$e6d85d20$b4891760$@cactus.dk>, Message-ID: <50DE37C8.22591.9A40D0EF@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Pegasus Mail already gives me: All the sorting and grouping features that GMail doesn't UNlimited archival capacity with email access the MS OUtlook can't And I don't need to be online to use it :-) -- Stuart On 27 Dec 2012 at 21:13, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Is this the new and great email client? > > Here is a client called Inky that is supposed to be able to gather all you > email sources, direct them to the cloud and provide a host of gathering, > grouping and organizing features. > > http://inky.com/ > > Here is an introduction to the product and its features...maybe this will be > your next email...and maybe it will give you all the sorting and grouping > features that GMail doesn't and unlimited archival capacity with email > access that MS Outlook can't. > > http://techcrunch.com/2012/12/27/inky-plans-to-reinvent-email-for-real-this- > time/ > > Jim > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Dec 28 19:14:22 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2012 17:14:22 -0800 Subject: [dba-Tech] A new email client? In-Reply-To: <50DE37C8.22591.9A40D0EF@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <002e01cde423$e6d85d20$b4891760$@cactus.dk>, <50DE37C8.22591.9A40D0EF@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <68D8A2DA56F64D99AD20BAB05D6DEEF9@creativesystemdesigns.com> I have always liked Pegasus Mail. I do like the ability to get to my mail from anywhere in the world though...the only downside but a good VPN could handle most of those issues. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 4:23 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] A new email client? Pegasus Mail already gives me: All the sorting and grouping features that GMail doesn't UNlimited archival capacity with email access the MS OUtlook can't And I don't need to be online to use it :-) -- Stuart On 27 Dec 2012 at 21:13, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Is this the new and great email client? > > Here is a client called Inky that is supposed to be able to gather all you > email sources, direct them to the cloud and provide a host of gathering, > grouping and organizing features. > > http://inky.com/ > > Here is an introduction to the product and its features...maybe this will be > your next email...and maybe it will give you all the sorting and grouping > features that GMail doesn't and unlimited archival capacity with email > access that MS Outlook can't. > > http://techcrunch.com/2012/12/27/inky-plans-to-reinvent-email-for-real-this- > time/ > > Jim > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From hkotsch at arcor.de Fri Dec 28 15:29:55 2012 From: hkotsch at arcor.de (Helmut Kotsch) Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2012 22:29:55 +0100 Subject: [dba-Tech] Fastest transfer speed rates set In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Re: My question is, "When do I get one?" My question is, "How fast is your brain?" Helmut -----Ursprungliche Nachricht----- Von: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]Im Auftrag von Jim Lawrence Gesendet: Freitag, 28. Dezember 2012 06:29 An: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Betreff: [dba-Tech] Fastest transfer speed rates set Between Victoria BC and Saltlake Utah the fastest web data transfer rates, in the world, were set, in November, of 339 Gbps. http://o.canada.com/2012/11/27/university-of-victoria-smashes-data-transfer- record/ My question is, "When do I get one?" Jim _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sun Dec 30 11:41:10 2012 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2012 12:41:10 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Devil's Dictionary Message-ID: Found a few dozen places from which to download this much-quotable gem of a book. Having a tablet is FUN. I can read this stuff in a local cafe and giggle just like another one of the psychopaths in the neighbourhood. Which gives rise to the formation of Fuller's Ninth Law: Never trust a cafe-habitue with a tablet. Speaking of tablets, perhaps that story about Moses deserves a techno-retelling. He came down from the mount, bearing two tablets: iTab and Nexus, etc. Embellish at will. -- Arthur From mcp2004 at mail.ru Sun Dec 30 12:58:45 2012 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2012 22:58:45 +0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] =?utf-8?q?Devil=27s_Dictionary?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1356893925.826895037@f152.mail.ru> <<< story about Moses deserves a techno-retelling. He came down from the mount bearing two tablets: iTab and Nexus >>> LOL: I have been on that Mount Sinai a few years ago - I haven't seen any Apple or Android factories or (i)Shops scars there :) -- Shamil ???????????, 30 ??????? 2012, 12:41 -05:00 ?? Arthur Fuller : >Found a few dozen places from which to download this much-quotable gem of a >book. Having a tablet is FUN. I can read this stuff in a local cafe and >giggle just like another one of the psychopaths in the neighbourhood. Which >gives rise to the formation of Fuller's Ninth Law: > >Never trust a cafe-habitue with a tablet. Speaking of tablets, perhaps that >story about Moses deserves a techno-retelling. He came down from the mount, >bearing two tablets: iTab and Nexus, etc. Embellish at will. > >-- >Arthur >_______________________________________________ >dba-Tech mailing list >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com