From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Jun 1 03:25:27 2012 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2012 10:25:27 +0200 Subject: [dba-Tech] So long, Norman Message-ID: Hi Arthur And so we are different. Can't wait to have my Windows 8 Consumer Preview replaced with the brand new Release Preview: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-8/release-preview /gustav >>> fuller.artful at gmail.com 31-05-12 22:31 >>> That's actually a quote from one of my fave singer-songwriters, to wit, Warren Zevon. The song is The Great Pretender and it's on his second album. But the point here is not about Warren Zevon, it's about my final liberation from Microsoft. I have at last converted my main squeeze to a native boot of Linux Mint 11. Inside that, I run Oracle VirtualBox, and inside that I run the only instances of Windows that I care about, each of which emulates a client workstation with only and exactly what the clients run. I have to tell you that for the first time in at least a decade, I finally feel free from the fellows in Redmond. The few times that I need to do some development for a client, I run a VM to do so. The rest of the time I'm living in Linux/Mint, and I love it. I do need to purchase a new laptop this month, but that's another story. It will probably come equipped with one or another version of Windows 7, and having toured the Windows 8 preliminary versions, I can see no reason to go there. Mind you, all this needs to be taken with a large grain of salt, since I am almost 65 years old and have little to no desire to retain my place on the bleeding edge. I have a stupid-phone and no tablets or any other fancy techno-vices. I'll continue to maintain the apps that I already have in the field, but from here on in my native OS is Mint, not Windows. For that kind of work, a VM will do just fine. I can precisely emulate what the client runs, right down to Windows/Office/SPs, so that I'm 100% confident that if it works in my VM, it will work on their hardware. And after that, my friends in Redmond, I have lost interest in your future directions. I simply do not care any more. -- Arthur Cell: 647.710.1314 Prediction is difficult, especially of the future. -- Niels Bohr From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Jun 1 10:26:15 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2012 08:26:15 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] So long, Norman In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav: Ha ha ha... this is a joke and problem of course. First in order to actually view this page you much be using IE (which I do not use anyway but to test WebPages but only off a work station) or it crashes, as it requires a full Silverlight (flash) install but my current version of IE is not setup to allow SL to install as the download file has an "exe" extension (an absolute no no, on a server). Not an auspicious start. I will try to run this on another test bed station and see if this will run/display properly. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, June 01, 2012 1:25 AM To: dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] So long, Norman Hi Arthur And so we are different. Can't wait to have my Windows 8 Consumer Preview replaced with the brand new Release Preview: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-8/release-preview /gustav >>> fuller.artful at gmail.com 31-05-12 22:31 >>> That's actually a quote from one of my fave singer-songwriters, to wit, Warren Zevon. The song is The Great Pretender and it's on his second album. But the point here is not about Warren Zevon, it's about my final liberation from Microsoft. I have at last converted my main squeeze to a native boot of Linux Mint 11. Inside that, I run Oracle VirtualBox, and inside that I run the only instances of Windows that I care about, each of which emulates a client workstation with only and exactly what the clients run. I have to tell you that for the first time in at least a decade, I finally feel free from the fellows in Redmond. The few times that I need to do some development for a client, I run a VM to do so. The rest of the time I'm living in Linux/Mint, and I love it. I do need to purchase a new laptop this month, but that's another story. It will probably come equipped with one or another version of Windows 7, and having toured the Windows 8 preliminary versions, I can see no reason to go there. Mind you, all this needs to be taken with a large grain of salt, since I am almost 65 years old and have little to no desire to retain my place on the bleeding edge. I have a stupid-phone and no tablets or any other fancy techno-vices. I'll continue to maintain the apps that I already have in the field, but from here on in my native OS is Mint, not Windows. For that kind of work, a VM will do just fine. I can precisely emulate what the client runs, right down to Windows/Office/SPs, so that I'm 100% confident that if it works in my VM, it will work on their hardware. And after that, my friends in Redmond, I have lost interest in your future directions. I simply do not care any more. -- Arthur Cell: 647.710.1314 Prediction is difficult, especially of the future. -- Niels Bohr _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Jun 1 10:40:37 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2012 08:40:37 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] So long, Norman In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02620A97C70746EFBFD9FF51F0FB745D@creativesystemdesigns.com> PS Finally got it running on an old XP box... The page does not like my server or more acurrately my server does not like the page. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Friday, June 01, 2012 8:26 AM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] So long, Norman Hi Gustav: Ha ha ha... this is a joke and problem of course. First in order to actually view this page you much be using IE (which I do not use anyway but to test WebPages but only off a work station) or it crashes, as it requires a full Silverlight (flash) install but my current version of IE is not setup to allow SL to install as the download file has an "exe" extension (an absolute no no, on a server). Not an auspicious start. I will try to run this on another test bed station and see if this will run/display properly. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, June 01, 2012 1:25 AM To: dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] So long, Norman Hi Arthur And so we are different. Can't wait to have my Windows 8 Consumer Preview replaced with the brand new Release Preview: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-8/release-preview /gustav >>> fuller.artful at gmail.com 31-05-12 22:31 >>> That's actually a quote from one of my fave singer-songwriters, to wit, Warren Zevon. The song is The Great Pretender and it's on his second album. But the point here is not about Warren Zevon, it's about my final liberation from Microsoft. I have at last converted my main squeeze to a native boot of Linux Mint 11. Inside that, I run Oracle VirtualBox, and inside that I run the only instances of Windows that I care about, each of which emulates a client workstation with only and exactly what the clients run. I have to tell you that for the first time in at least a decade, I finally feel free from the fellows in Redmond. The few times that I need to do some development for a client, I run a VM to do so. The rest of the time I'm living in Linux/Mint, and I love it. I do need to purchase a new laptop this month, but that's another story. It will probably come equipped with one or another version of Windows 7, and having toured the Windows 8 preliminary versions, I can see no reason to go there. Mind you, all this needs to be taken with a large grain of salt, since I am almost 65 years old and have little to no desire to retain my place on the bleeding edge. I have a stupid-phone and no tablets or any other fancy techno-vices. I'll continue to maintain the apps that I already have in the field, but from here on in my native OS is Mint, not Windows. For that kind of work, a VM will do just fine. I can precisely emulate what the client runs, right down to Windows/Office/SPs, so that I'm 100% confident that if it works in my VM, it will work on their hardware. And after that, my friends in Redmond, I have lost interest in your future directions. I simply do not care any more. -- Arthur Cell: 647.710.1314 Prediction is difficult, especially of the future. -- Niels Bohr _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From hans.andersen at phulse.com Fri Jun 1 12:03:27 2012 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2012 10:03:27 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] So long, Norman In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7C6666C0-82E0-4509-90A4-45D8AC6B8374@phulse.com> Congratulations on the upgrade. :) And just in time to dodge the incoming Windows 8 debacle as well. I remember that feeling of liberation. It totally changed my outlook on computers. It was back in the days of XP, when Microsoft announced that Longhorn was going to be called Vista and they were going to cut out all the best features that they had been touting and promising for years. I switched over to OpenSUSE back then, but it was still early days for Ubuntu and Mint didn't exist yet. I remember being amazed having a laptop that had new life breathed into it. It was stable and fast and didn't need reinstalling every 6 months to a year. After being a heavy Windows user since 3.11, this was a new experience for me. :p By the way, don't under-estimate how powerful WINE is at being able to run Windows applications on Linux natively. It's not perfect, but it's able to handle quite a lot of applications rather well. So, if there is any particular application or game that you miss from Windows and would frequently use, give it a try. - Hans On 2012-05-31, at 1:31 PM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > That's actually a quote from one of my fave singer-songwriters, to wit, > Warren Zevon. The song is The Great Pretender and it's on his second album. > But the point here is not about Warren Zevon, it's about my final > liberation from Microsoft. > > I have at last converted my main squeeze to a native boot of Linux Mint 11. > Inside that, I run Oracle VirtualBox, and inside that I run the only > instances of Windows that I care about, each of which emulates a client > workstation with only and exactly what the clients run. > > I have to tell you that for the first time in at least a decade, I finally > feel free from the fellows in Redmond. The few times that I need to do some > development for a client, I run a VM to do so. The rest of the time I'm > living in Linux/Mint, and I love it. > > I do need to purchase a new laptop this month, but that's another story. It > will probably come equipped with one or another version of Windows 7, and > having toured the Windows 8 preliminary versions, I can see no reason to go > there. Mind you, all this needs to be taken with a large grain of salt, > since I am almost 65 years old and have little to no desire to retain my > place on the bleeding edge. I have a stupid-phone and no tablets or any > other fancy techno-vices. I'll continue to maintain the apps that I already > have in the field, but from here on in my native OS is Mint, not Windows. > For that kind of work, a VM will do just fine. I can precisely emulate what > the client runs, right down to Windows/Office/SPs, so that I'm 100% > confident that if it works in my VM, it will work on their hardware. > > And after that, my friends in Redmond, I have lost interest in your future > directions. I simply do not care any more. > > -- > Arthur > Cell: 647.710.1314 > > Prediction is difficult, especially of the future. > -- Niels Bohr > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Jun 1 14:51:32 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2012 12:51:32 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] The wonderful thing about Linux... In-Reply-To: <7C6666C0-82E0-4509-90A4-45D8AC6B8374@phulse.com> References: <7C6666C0-82E0-4509-90A4-45D8AC6B8374@phulse.com> Message-ID: <3452E8D9E2FE463F8C4FCEA2378ADF51@creativesystemdesigns.com> With the arrival of these new little Linux Raspberry PI, options to tinker play and automate everything in and around your house or even business is a possibilty. You are going to have to learn how to use Python (http://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide/NonProgrammers), and that will take a couple of weeks to master or at least become dangerious with. http://www.linuxinsider.com/rsstory/75259.html With the new Raspberry PIs, on there way we can all become kids again. ;-) Jim From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Jun 1 19:59:00 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2012 17:59:00 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] Clippy and friends In-Reply-To: <7C6666C0-82E0-4509-90A4-45D8AC6B8374@phulse.com> References: <7C6666C0-82E0-4509-90A4-45D8AC6B8374@phulse.com> Message-ID: Just when you thought old friends were gone with the advent of WXP and Office2003; well they haven't and now you can add them to web sites. Your clients will just love you for it. ;-) http://www.smore.com/clippy-js Jim From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Jun 1 21:27:09 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2012 19:27:09 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: References: <7C6666C0-82E0-4509-90A4-45D8AC6B8374@phulse.com> Message-ID: Windows 8 viewers fall into two distinct groups. Those that hate it, which is by far the largest group and then there is the "atta boy" groups, who's members would defend W8 to the death. Neither group has supplied the basics on how the product actually works. It has always been the, "I don't know and I don't care" group and the "I know but its yours to find out" group and both groups are useless as far any sort of assistance. Here is a video, in which the orator tries to answer and demonstrate some of the new Window's methods and feature as well as voicing some of his concerns. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=qIMuJTrxuhQ#! My prediction, is that the new Windows adoption will be a lack luster affair and most of the current users will just hunker down with their Windows 7 and wait for something better. I don't believe, Microsoft will ever convince a majority of the current Windows users to migrate and eventually, the Windows OS line will split into two distinct applications...which is what should have been done in the first place. Jim From hans.andersen at phulse.com Fri Jun 1 21:43:01 2012 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2012 19:43:01 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: References: <7C6666C0-82E0-4509-90A4-45D8AC6B8374@phulse.com> Message-ID: > Neither group has supplied the basics on how the product actually works. Where have you experienced this, out of curiosity? I would expect most with an opinion would have at least tried the consumer preview. - Hans Sent from my iPhone On 2012-06-01, at 7:27 PM, "Jim Lawrence" wrote: > Neither group > has supplied the basics on how the product actually works. It From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Jun 1 22:07:55 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2012 20:07:55 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: References: <7C6666C0-82E0-4509-90A4-45D8AC6B8374@phulse.com> Message-ID: <26E774CCD07B4E1FB7BC393FB8EB46CF@creativesystemdesigns.com> I have been wandering around on the web trying to find out the details of the product but that has been a very elusive search. A friend and .Net programmer, who I have known for years, is very hyped on MS's new offering but other than to say drag from the lower left corner, he provided no further details. It turns out that you do drag but from the bottom of the screen...very helpful for a person, like myself, who is unwilling and unable to spend copious amounts of time just to get the very basics. To my way of thinking it should be all intuitive. If I am having difficulty, I just can not imagine how confused all my clients are and will be. I can imagine the nightmare of going to a client's site, to fix some strange error with being able to easily get to the entire system's controls. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian Andersen Sent: Friday, June 01, 2012 7:43 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Windows 8 > Neither group has supplied the basics on how the product actually works. Where have you experienced this, out of curiosity? I would expect most with an opinion would have at least tried the consumer preview. - Hans Sent from my iPhone On 2012-06-01, at 7:27 PM, "Jim Lawrence" wrote: > Neither group > has supplied the basics on how the product actually works. It _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From poc231st at hotmail.com Sat Jun 2 17:25:23 2012 From: poc231st at hotmail.com (Patti OConnor) Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2012 18:25:23 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] Old programmers In-Reply-To: <06E9F77A5B634B5B8FEABD17DC05AD39@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: , <035201cd3934$421d1fe0$c6575fa0$@winhaven.net>, <612A0E1DC8084FBF92CE98AD7B4D15B5@creativesystemdesigns.com><4FC1C395.6005.66163D2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <06E9F77A5B634B5B8FEABD17DC05AD39@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: thanks love it and so true On 05/27/2012 02:35 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > I saw this article and decided to post it in it entirety. As an mature > programmer I made similar decisions many years ago and understand where this > youngster is coming from: > > " Old Farts Know How to Code > > I turned 45 this month. In many professions that's the prime age to be - and > in others it's considered young - but in my line of work, some people tabhink > middle-aged coders are old farts. That's especially true when it comes to > startups. > > The startup culture is similar to professional sports in that it requires a > fleet of fresh-out-of-college kids to trade their lives and their health for > the potential of short-term glory. > > "Old farts" are often excluded from that culture, not because we're lousy > coders but because we won't put up with that shit. We have lives, we have > families, we have other things that are important to us. We're not about to > sleep at our desks and trade watching our kids grow up for the promise of > striking it rich. Especially when the people who really strike it rich > aren't the ones writing code. > > So many developers my age have had plenty of chances to ditch coding and > move into management, but we've stuck with coding because it's what we love > to do. We'd earn more in management, but writing software is in our blood. > We wouldn't stop doing it for anything. > > And because of the years we've spent creating software, we've learned what > works and what doesn't, regardless of the language or the platform. > Operating systems rise and fall, development tools come and go, but through > it all, old farts know how to write solid code. " > > Jim > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From gustav at cactus.dk Sun Jun 3 01:44:39 2012 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2012 08:44:39 +0200 Subject: [dba-Tech] So long, Norman Message-ID: Hi Jim Good. I never understood why you would download workstation software on a server. /gustav >>> accessd at shaw.ca 01-06-12 17:40 >>> PS Finally got it running on an old XP box... The page does not like my server or more acurrately my server does not like the page. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Friday, June 01, 2012 8:26 AM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] So long, Norman Hi Gustav: Ha ha ha... this is a joke and problem of course. First in order to actually view this page you much be using IE (which I do not use anyway but to test WebPages but only off a work station) or it crashes, as it requires a full Silverlight (flash) install but my current version of IE is not setup to allow SL to install as the download file has an "exe" extension (an absolute no no, on a server). Not an auspicious start. I will try to run this on another test bed station and see if this will run/display properly. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, June 01, 2012 1:25 AM To: dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] So long, Norman Hi Arthur And so we are different. Can't wait to have my Windows 8 Consumer Preview replaced with the brand new Release Preview: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-8/release-preview /gustav From gustav at cactus.dk Sun Jun 3 01:52:33 2012 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2012 08:52:33 +0200 Subject: [dba-Tech] So long, Norman Message-ID: Hi Hans I don't get it. I've never had the need to reinstall a workstation. Except once, where multiple local SQL Server installations completely messed up themselves on my four year old Vista. Which learned me to not install any SQL Server other than SQL Server Express locally. /gustav >>> hans.andersen at phulse.com 01-06-12 19:03 >>> Congratulations on the upgrade. :) And just in time to dodge the incoming Windows 8 debacle as well. I remember that feeling of liberation. It totally changed my outlook on computers. It was back in the days of XP, when Microsoft announced that Longhorn was going to be called Vista and they were going to cut out all the best features that they had been touting and promising for years. I switched over to OpenSUSE back then, but it was still early days for Ubuntu and Mint didn't exist yet. I remember being amazed having a laptop that had new life breathed into it. It was stable and fast and didn't need reinstalling every 6 months to a year. After being a heavy Windows user since 3.11, this was a new experience for me. :p By the way, don't under-estimate how powerful WINE is at being able to run Windows applications on Linux natively. It's not perfect, but it's able to handle quite a lot of applications rather well. So, if there is any particular application or game that you miss from Windows and would frequently use, give it a try. - Hans From hans.andersen at phulse.com Mon Jun 4 03:32:30 2012 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2012 01:32:30 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] So long, Norman In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0A2C8D81-8DA5-4CB9-AF97-2431482F3623@phulse.com> Gustav, Where do I even begin? It is entirely possible that either you have been blessed or I and those close to me personally and professionally have been cursed, but I have never known a Windows system to be stable for very long. Usually after 6 or so months it starts developing "quirks". The occasional slowness or crash or not being able to connect to some device properly etc. Something just feels off. Then, after that, it's just a question of eventual disintegration. There are no obvious hints as to what the problem is. Your anti-virus software manages to find some ugly tracking cookies, but nothing beyond that. Your hard drive seems fine and SMART doesn't flag anything. Your system is all up-to-date and you aren't running out of disk space and memory seems fine. After a while, sleeping/hibernating your computer returns it to a very slow system where Windows just seems to frequently stare off to space occasionally for no reason and your USB device (i.e. mouse or whatnot) refuses to connect. No applications are running and so you shrug your shoulders and figure a clean reboot is the best option. This is often the best solution, returning your system to its normal speed and state, but for how long? Granted, if you only install a minimum amount of applications and do not surf the web, you can probably keep Windows pretty stable, but you would not be the ordinary Windows user then. Most users will be installing many things over time: applications, games, etc and all the DLLs & other dependencies that come along with that. Windows is a fickle beast to such users. It works well for a while, but just the slightest thing will push it over the critical edge and you never know what that might be. If this does not ring familiar to you, then I don't know what to say. This has been my experience personally and through people who needed technical help with Windows, including managing a corporate Windows network and terminal services on Windows Server 2008. The smartest thing you can do is take a snapshot of your newly installed system with something like DriveImage XML, making sure to keep your data on a separate partition from your system partition, and restore your system ever so often. I'm not saying this as a newcomer to Windows. I've been a PC users since the days of DOS, but personally decided to jump ship before Vista came out. Saying that, I've still been managing Windows machines since, so I am familiar enough with Vista and 7. Speaking of terminal services, I've currently got a system with 25-30 or so connected users, which has a WINSXS folder filling up like crazy with multiple copies of the same darned DLL files over and over again to the point where it fills up 15 gigabytes. This server is static in the sense that no new software has been installed in over a year or two, yet this directory keeps growing all the time for whatever brilliant reason. My guess is that Windows Server just keeps on thinking that its probably best to play safe and duplicate DLLs every single time the same application (office, firefox and IE) is launched (remind me again what a DLL is for? ). Does anyone if it is safe to simply wipe this directory? And do you know why this is happening specifically? Hans On 2012-06-02, at 11:52 PM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Hans > > I don't get it. I've never had the need to reinstall a workstation. Except once, where multiple local SQL Server installations completely messed up themselves on my four year old Vista. Which learned me to not install any SQL Server other than SQL Server Express locally. > > /gustav > > >>>> hans.andersen at phulse.com 01-06-12 19:03 >>> > > Congratulations on the upgrade. :) > > And just in time to dodge the incoming Windows 8 debacle as well. > > I remember that feeling of liberation. It totally changed my outlook on computers. It was back in the days of XP, when Microsoft announced that Longhorn was going to be called Vista and they were going to cut out all the best features that they had been touting and promising for years. I switched over to OpenSUSE back then, but it was still early days for Ubuntu and Mint didn't exist yet. I remember being amazed having a laptop that had new life breathed into it. It was stable and fast and didn't need reinstalling every 6 months to a year. After being a heavy Windows user since 3.11, this was a new experience for me. :p > > By the way, don't under-estimate how powerful WINE is at being able to run Windows applications on Linux natively. It's not perfect, but it's able to handle quite a lot of applications rather well. So, if there is any particular application or game that you miss from Windows and would frequently use, give it a try. > > - Hans > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Mon Jun 4 03:58:54 2012 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2012 10:58:54 +0200 Subject: [dba-Tech] So long, Norman Message-ID: Hi Hans I don't know. I'm not a member of any church so perhaps the upper powers just ignore me when playing games with us eartlings. That said, games are abandoned on any machine for serious work, but beyond that my fellow coworkers and clients are, in this relation, just ordinary computer users. We don't even use UPSs. I simply can't recall we've ever reinstalled a workstation or server since and including Windows 2000 except for a purpose (machine assigned for other use or the like). Thus, we really get value for the OEM installed Windows license which matches the technical lifetime of the machines, as these are not replaced due to malfunction. /gustav >>> hans.andersen at phulse.com 04-06-12 10:32 >>> Gustav, Where do I even begin? It is entirely possible that either you have been blessed or I and those close to me personally and professionally have been cursed, but I have never known a Windows system to be stable for very long. Usually after 6 or so months it starts developing "quirks". The occasional slowness or crash or not being able to connect to some device properly etc. Something just feels off. Then, after that, it's just a question of eventual disintegration. There are no obvious hints as to what the problem is. Your anti-virus software manages to find some ugly tracking cookies, but nothing beyond that. Your hard drive seems fine and SMART doesn't flag anything. Your system is all up-to-date and you aren't running out of disk space and memory seems fine. After a while, sleeping/hibernating your computer returns it to a very slow system where Windows just seems to frequently stare off to space occasionally for no reason and your USB device (i.e. mouse or whatnot) refuses! to connect. No applications are running and so you shrug your shoulders and figure a clean reboot is the best option. This is often the best solution, returning your system to its normal speed and state, but for how long? Granted, if you only install a minimum amount of applications and do not surf the web, you can probably keep Windows pretty stable, but you would not be the ordinary Windows user then. Most users will be installing many things over time: applications, games, etc and all the DLLs & other dependencies that come along with that. Windows is a fickle beast to such users. It works well for a while, but just the slightest thing will push it over the critical edge and you never know what that might be. If this does not ring familiar to you, then I don't know what to say. This has been my experience personally and through people who needed technical help with Windows, including managing a corporate Windows network and terminal services on Windows Server 2008. The smartest thing you can do is take a snapshot of your newly installed system with something like DriveImage XML, making sure to keep your data on a separate partition from your system partition, and restore your system ever so often. I'm not saying this as a newcomer to Windows. I've been a PC users since the days of DOS, but personally decided to jump ship before Vista came out. Saying that, I've still been managing Windows machines since, so I am familiar enough with Vista and 7. Speaking of terminal services, I've currently got a system with 25-30 or so connected users, which has a WINSXS folder filling up like crazy with multiple copies of the same darned DLL files over and over again to the point where it fills up 15 gigabytes. This server is static in the sense that no new software has been installed in over a year or two, yet this directory keeps growing all the time for whatever brilliant reason. My guess is that Windows Server just keeps on thinking that its probably best to play safe and duplicate DLLs every single time the same application (office, firefox and IE) is launched (remind me again what a DLL is for? ). Does anyone if it is safe to simply wipe this directory? And do you know why this is happening specifically? Hans On 2012-06-02, at 11:52 PM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Hans > > I don't get it. I've never had the need to reinstall a workstation. Except once, where multiple local SQL Server installations completely messed up themselves on my four year old Vista. Which learned me to not install any SQL Server other than SQL Server Express locally. > > /gustav > > >>>> hans.andersen at phulse.com 01-06-12 19:03 >>> > > Congratulations on the upgrade. :) > > And just in time to dodge the incoming Windows 8 debacle as well. > > I remember that feeling of liberation. It totally changed my outlook on computers. It was back in the days of XP, when Microsoft announced that Longhorn was going to be called Vista and they were going to cut out all the best features that they had been touting and promising for years. I switched over to OpenSUSE back then, but it was still early days for Ubuntu and Mint didn't exist yet. I remember being amazed having a laptop that had new life breathed into it. It was stable and fast and didn't need reinstalling every 6 months to a year. After being a heavy Windows user since 3.11, this was a new experience for me. :p > > By the way, don't under-estimate how powerful WINE is at being able to run Windows applications on Linux natively. It's not perfect, but it's able to handle quite a lot of applications rather well. So, if there is any particular application or game that you miss from Windows and would frequently use, give it a try. > > - Hans From john at winhaven.net Mon Jun 4 10:03:57 2012 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2012 10:03:57 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] So long, Norman In-Reply-To: <0A2C8D81-8DA5-4CB9-AF97-2431482F3623@phulse.com> References: <0A2C8D81-8DA5-4CB9-AF97-2431482F3623@phulse.com> Message-ID: <01ab01cd4263$442e8f70$cc8bae50$@winhaven.net> Hans, Wow, maybe you just really bad luck. Or maybe it's the gaming issue. I don't play games on my computers and I have well over a hundred applications installed. I rarely reinstall Windows on machines. Well, let me restate that. Since Windows 2000 was released, I rarely reinstall Windows. I have very few clients that had Windows Vista. The vast majority still have Windows XP but as we replace their older equipment I'm moving them to Windows 7. I've only had one Windows 7 PC actually blue screen crash. I remember because it's so odd that I hear of any blue screen crashes. Even then they were hardware issues. I have nothing against Linux, UNIX, Macs. It's just that I have no baggage with NT based Windows either. DOS based Windows, now that's another story... -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian Andersen Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 3:33 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] So long, Norman Gustav, Where do I even begin? It is entirely possible that either you have been blessed or I and those close to me personally and professionally have been cursed, but I have never known a Windows system to be stable for very long. Usually after 6 or so months it starts developing "quirks". The occasional slowness or crash or not being able to connect to some device properly etc. Something just feels off. Then, after that, it's just a question of eventual disintegration. There are no obvious hints as to what the problem is. Your anti-virus software manages to find some ugly tracking cookies, but nothing beyond that. Your hard drive seems fine and SMART doesn't flag anything. Your system is all up-to-date and you aren't running out of disk space and memory seems fine. After a while, sleeping/hibernating your computer returns it to a very slow system where Windows just seems to frequently stare off to space occasionally for no reason and your USB device (i.e. mouse or whatnot) refuses! to connect. No applications are running and so you shrug your shoulders and figure a clean reboot is the best option. This is often the best solution, returning your system to its normal speed and state, but for how long? Granted, if you only install a minimum amount of applications and do not surf the web, you can probably keep Windows pretty stable, but you would not be the ordinary Windows user then. Most users will be installing many things over time: applications, games, etc and all the DLLs & other dependencies that come along with that. Windows is a fickle beast to such users. It works well for a while, but just the slightest thing will push it over the critical edge and you never know what that might be. If this does not ring familiar to you, then I don't know what to say. This has been my experience personally and through people who needed technical help with Windows, including managing a corporate Windows network and terminal services on Windows Server 2008. The smartest thing you can do is take a snapshot of your newly installed system with something like DriveImage XML, making sure to keep your data on a separate partition from your system partition, and restore your system ever so often. I'm not saying this as a newcomer to Windows. I've been a PC users since the days of DOS, but personally decided to jump ship before Vista came out. Saying that, I've still been managing Windows machines since, so I am familiar enough with Vista and 7. Speaking of terminal services, I've currently got a system with 25-30 or so connected users, which has a WINSXS folder filling up like crazy with multiple copies of the same darned DLL files over and over again to the point where it fills up 15 gigabytes. This server is static in the sense that no new software has been installed in over a year or two, yet this directory keeps growing all the time for whatever brilliant reason. My guess is that Windows Server just keeps on thinking that its probably best to play safe and duplicate DLLs every single time the same application (office, firefox and IE) is launched (remind me again what a DLL is for? ). Does anyone if it is safe to simply wipe this directory? And do you know why this is happening specifically? Hans On 2012-06-02, at 11:52 PM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Hans > > I don't get it. I've never had the need to reinstall a workstation. Except once, where multiple local SQL Server installations completely messed up themselves on my four year old Vista. Which learned me to not install any SQL Server other than SQL Server Express locally. > > /gustav > > >>>> hans.andersen at phulse.com 01-06-12 19:03 >>> > > Congratulations on the upgrade. :) > > And just in time to dodge the incoming Windows 8 debacle as well. > > I remember that feeling of liberation. It totally changed my outlook on computers. It was back in the days of XP, when Microsoft announced that Longhorn was going to be called Vista and they were going to cut out all the best features that they had been touting and promising for years. I switched over to OpenSUSE back then, but it was still early days for Ubuntu and Mint didn't exist yet. I remember being amazed having a laptop that had new life breathed into it. It was stable and fast and didn't need reinstalling every 6 months to a year. After being a heavy Windows user since 3.11, this was a new experience for me. :p > > By the way, don't under-estimate how powerful WINE is at being able to run Windows applications on Linux natively. It's not perfect, but it's able to handle quite a lot of applications rather well. So, if there is any particular application or game that you miss from Windows and would frequently use, give it a try. > > - Hans > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Jun 4 10:59:44 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2012 08:59:44 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] So long, Norman In-Reply-To: <0A2C8D81-8DA5-4CB9-AF97-2431482F3623@phulse.com> References: <0A2C8D81-8DA5-4CB9-AF97-2431482F3623@phulse.com> Message-ID: <0332DE7F580F469890CAB7D04DC3A349@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hans: Problems with Windows are not as dependant on the OS as its environment. If you have a well built piece of hardware, 90 percent of your problems are gone. PC and Desktops have always been a problem; I just have not figured out how to take the users out of the equation. In a work environment, windows has been very stable. That is because the users ability to add, change and delete things is limited. It is hardly fair to compare the stability of servers to that of the desktop PC. Servers by their nature and users, generally an expert, seem to always just run. They never stop, need nothing but minor maintenance and can run for years until their capacity and speed retires them. I have many clients who have servers (small local companies usually have Windows servers) which are 8 to 9 years old and my job is always to get another year out of them. I personally have a very old server, at eleven years old, runs 24 x 365 and only because many failing pieces of hardware will it need replacing. It ran Windows server OS 2000 for a few years and then in 2003, was replaced with a freshly minted 2003 server piece of software which has run successfully ever since. I have replaced hundreds of PC, especially from banks, investment houses and insurance companies. The PC on which the user works are locked down tight, the boxes are some of the cheapest pieces of junk that have ever graces a desktop, but they run without incident for their years (two to three) and when their lease expires, they are replaced and the cycle continues. The support IT guys rarely have PC issues, other than hardware failures. If the OS that you use, is run in the way it was built for, there are usually a limited number of problems. If you start trying to hack a system this is where problems start. Install enough junk-ware on any system and it will not be long before its crippled. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian Andersen Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 1:33 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] So long, Norman Gustav, Where do I even begin? It is entirely possible that either you have been blessed or I and those close to me personally and professionally have been cursed, but I have never known a Windows system to be stable for very long. Usually after 6 or so months it starts developing "quirks". The occasional slowness or crash or not being able to connect to some device properly etc. Something just feels off. Then, after that, it's just a question of eventual disintegration. There are no obvious hints as to what the problem is. Your anti-virus software manages to find some ugly tracking cookies, but nothing beyond that. Your hard drive seems fine and SMART doesn't flag anything. Your system is all up-to-date and you aren't running out of disk space and memory seems fine. After a while, sleeping/hibernating your computer returns it to a very slow system where Windows just seems to frequently stare off to space occasionally for no reason and your USB device (i.e. mouse or whatnot) refuses! to connect. No applications are running and so you shrug your shoulders and figure a clean reboot is the best option. This is often the best solution, returning your system to its normal speed and state, but for how long? Granted, if you only install a minimum amount of applications and do not surf the web, you can probably keep Windows pretty stable, but you would not be the ordinary Windows user then. Most users will be installing many things over time: applications, games, etc and all the DLLs & other dependencies that come along with that. Windows is a fickle beast to such users. It works well for a while, but just the slightest thing will push it over the critical edge and you never know what that might be. If this does not ring familiar to you, then I don't know what to say. This has been my experience personally and through people who needed technical help with Windows, including managing a corporate Windows network and terminal services on Windows Server 2008. The smartest thing you can do is take a snapshot of your newly installed system with something like DriveImage XML, making sure to keep your data on a separate partition from your system partition, and restore your system ever so often. I'm not saying this as a newcomer to Windows. I've been a PC users since the days of DOS, but personally decided to jump ship before Vista came out. Saying that, I've still been managing Windows machines since, so I am familiar enough with Vista and 7. Speaking of terminal services, I've currently got a system with 25-30 or so connected users, which has a WINSXS folder filling up like crazy with multiple copies of the same darned DLL files over and over again to the point where it fills up 15 gigabytes. This server is static in the sense that no new software has been installed in over a year or two, yet this directory keeps growing all the time for whatever brilliant reason. My guess is that Windows Server just keeps on thinking that its probably best to play safe and duplicate DLLs every single time the same application (office, firefox and IE) is launched (remind me again what a DLL is for? ). Does anyone if it is safe to simply wipe this directory? And do you know why this is happening specifically? Hans On 2012-06-02, at 11:52 PM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Hans > > I don't get it. I've never had the need to reinstall a workstation. Except once, where multiple local SQL Server installations completely messed up themselves on my four year old Vista. Which learned me to not install any SQL Server other than SQL Server Express locally. > > /gustav > > >>>> hans.andersen at phulse.com 01-06-12 19:03 >>> > > Congratulations on the upgrade. :) > > And just in time to dodge the incoming Windows 8 debacle as well. > > I remember that feeling of liberation. It totally changed my outlook on computers. It was back in the days of XP, when Microsoft announced that Longhorn was going to be called Vista and they were going to cut out all the best features that they had been touting and promising for years. I switched over to OpenSUSE back then, but it was still early days for Ubuntu and Mint didn't exist yet. I remember being amazed having a laptop that had new life breathed into it. It was stable and fast and didn't need reinstalling every 6 months to a year. After being a heavy Windows user since 3.11, this was a new experience for me. :p > > By the way, don't under-estimate how powerful WINE is at being able to run Windows applications on Linux natively. It's not perfect, but it's able to handle quite a lot of applications rather well. So, if there is any particular application or game that you miss from Windows and would frequently use, give it a try. > > - Hans > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From hans.andersen at phulse.com Mon Jun 4 11:01:32 2012 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2012 09:01:32 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] So long, Norman In-Reply-To: <01ab01cd4263$442e8f70$cc8bae50$@winhaven.net> References: <0A2C8D81-8DA5-4CB9-AF97-2431482F3623@phulse.com> <01ab01cd4263$442e8f70$cc8bae50$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: John, These are mostly just observations of other people lately and my experience supporting it at my company. I haven't been a Windows user since 2005 or so, but it was also the reason I left Windows back then. I'm not sure it is specific to gaming. As a recent example, my wife's Win7 laptop had very few games installed (its graphics card was the Intel GMA sort, not powerful enough to run most games) and really only just a handful of additional applications. She mostly used it for surfing, but its now un-usable. No blue screening, just lots of pausing, freezing and general slowness to the point of frustration for her, but there is nothing obviously wrong with it. This is probably the 4th reinstall of Windows on that laptop (HP) in the last 4 or so years, but she's got a new laptop now, so I may just throw Linux onto this machine to extend its life. I'm not saying that every Windows machine will eventually be completely crippled, but I always known them to develop quirks over time and become a less stable system overall (not stability in terms of blue screening, but in the sense that it is not behaving as expected ie. applications not starting, freezing or crashing), often for no identifiable reason. If this hasn't been an issue for you, then you are obviously doing something right, but it's not clear to me what is being done wrong in the cases I have witnessed/experienced. Hans On 2012-06-04, at 8:03 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hans, > Wow, maybe you just really bad luck. Or maybe it's the gaming issue. I don't > play games on my computers and I have well over a hundred applications > installed. I rarely reinstall Windows on machines. Well, let me restate > that. Since Windows 2000 was released, I rarely reinstall Windows. I have > very few clients that had Windows Vista. The vast majority still have > Windows XP but as we replace their older equipment I'm moving them to > Windows 7. I've only had one Windows 7 PC actually blue screen crash. I > remember because it's so odd that I hear of any blue screen crashes. Even > then they were hardware issues. > > I have nothing against Linux, UNIX, Macs. It's just that I have no baggage > with NT based Windows either. DOS based Windows, now that's another story... > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian > Andersen > Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 3:33 AM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] So long, Norman > > Gustav, > > Where do I even begin? It is entirely possible that either you have been > blessed or I and those close to me personally and professionally have been > cursed, but I have never known a Windows system to be stable for very long. > Usually after 6 or so months it starts developing "quirks". The occasional > slowness or crash or not being able to connect to some device properly etc. > Something just feels off. Then, after that, it's just a question of eventual > disintegration. There are no obvious hints as to what the problem is. Your > anti-virus software manages to find some ugly tracking cookies, but nothing > beyond that. Your hard drive seems fine and SMART doesn't flag anything. > Your system is all up-to-date and you aren't running out of disk space and > memory seems fine. After a while, sleeping/hibernating your computer returns > it to a very slow system where Windows just seems to frequently stare off to > space occasionally for no reason and your USB device (i.e. mouse or whatnot) > refuses! > to connect. No applications are running and so you shrug your shoulders > and figure a clean reboot is the best option. This is often the best > solution, returning your system to its normal speed and state, but for how > long? > > Granted, if you only install a minimum amount of applications and do not > surf the web, you can probably keep Windows pretty stable, but you would not > be the ordinary Windows user then. Most users will be installing many things > over time: applications, games, etc and all the DLLs & other dependencies > that come along with that. Windows is a fickle beast to such users. It works > well for a while, but just the slightest thing will push it over the > critical edge and you never know what that might be. > > If this does not ring familiar to you, then I don't know what to say. This > has been my experience personally and through people who needed technical > help with Windows, including managing a corporate Windows network and > terminal services on Windows Server 2008. The smartest thing you can do is > take a snapshot of your newly installed system with something like > DriveImage XML, making sure to keep your data on a separate partition from > your system partition, and restore your system ever so often. I'm not saying > this as a newcomer to Windows. I've been a PC users since the days of DOS, > but personally decided to jump ship before Vista came out. Saying that, I've > still been managing Windows machines since, so I am familiar enough with > Vista and 7. > > Speaking of terminal services, I've currently got a system with 25-30 or so > connected users, which has a WINSXS folder filling up like crazy with > multiple copies of the same darned DLL files over and over again to the > point where it fills up 15 gigabytes. This server is static in the sense > that no new software has been installed in over a year or two, yet this > directory keeps growing all the time for whatever brilliant reason. My guess > is that Windows Server just keeps on thinking that its probably best to play > safe and duplicate DLLs every single time the same application (office, > firefox and IE) is launched (remind me again what a DLL is for? ). > > Does anyone if it is safe to simply wipe this directory? And do you know why > this is happening specifically? > > Hans > > > > > On 2012-06-02, at 11:52 PM, Gustav Brock wrote: > >> Hi Hans >> >> I don't get it. I've never had the need to reinstall a workstation. Except > once, where multiple local SQL Server installations completely messed up > themselves on my four year old Vista. Which learned me to not install any > SQL Server other than SQL Server Express locally. >> >> /gustav >> >> >>>>> hans.andersen at phulse.com 01-06-12 19:03 >>> >> >> Congratulations on the upgrade. :) >> >> And just in time to dodge the incoming Windows 8 debacle as well. >> >> I remember that feeling of liberation. It totally changed my outlook on > computers. It was back in the days of XP, when Microsoft announced that > Longhorn was going to be called Vista and they were going to cut out all the > best features that they had been touting and promising for years. I switched > over to OpenSUSE back then, but it was still early days for Ubuntu and Mint > didn't exist yet. I remember being amazed having a laptop that had new life > breathed into it. It was stable and fast and didn't need reinstalling every > 6 months to a year. After being a heavy Windows user since 3.11, this was a > new experience for me. :p >> >> By the way, don't under-estimate how powerful WINE is at being able to run > Windows applications on Linux natively. It's not perfect, but it's able to > handle quite a lot of applications rather well. So, if there is any > particular application or game that you miss from Windows and would > frequently use, give it a try. >> >> - Hans >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From hans.andersen at phulse.com Mon Jun 4 11:23:40 2012 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2012 09:23:40 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] So long, Norman In-Reply-To: <0332DE7F580F469890CAB7D04DC3A349@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <0A2C8D81-8DA5-4CB9-AF97-2431482F3623@phulse.com> <0332DE7F580F469890CAB7D04DC3A349@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <8D6416B7-613E-41CA-B7AF-3E3D59E8A96C@phulse.com> This is true. In all my experience, Windows Server has been fairly solid and does not run up into the same issues that regular desktop users do. However, Windows Server would also be useless to most ordinary users, let alone prohibitively expensive to buy as a regular user. If you only use Windows for Office and Outlook and only have experience within an office environment, then you might not be able to understand the much larger consumer market and how regular users use their computers. > > If the OS that you use, is run in the way it was built for, there are > usually a limited number of problems. If you start trying to hack a system > this is where problems start. Install enough junk-ware on any system and it > will not be long before its crippled. If someone deliberately hacks away at their system and installs junk ware, then its their fault. But, the problem with saying this is that one mans junk ware can be another mans Photoshop. It almost sounds like you are suggesting that one should not install additional applications on Windows? "An operating system (OS) is a set of software that manages computer hardware resources and provides common services for computer programs." Hans On 2012-06-04, at 8:59 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hans: > > Problems with Windows are not as dependant on the OS as its environment. If > you have a well built piece of hardware, 90 percent of your problems are > gone. PC and Desktops have always been a problem; I just have not figured > out how to take the users out of the equation. > > In a work environment, windows has been very stable. That is because the > users ability to add, change and delete things is limited. > > It is hardly fair to compare the stability of servers to that of the desktop > PC. Servers by their nature and users, generally an expert, seem to always > just run. They never stop, need nothing but minor maintenance and can run > for years until their capacity and speed retires them. > > I have many clients who have servers (small local companies usually have > Windows servers) which are 8 to 9 years old and my job is always to get > another year out of them. I personally have a very old server, at eleven > years old, runs 24 x 365 and only because many failing pieces of hardware > will it need replacing. It ran Windows server OS 2000 for a few years and > then in 2003, was replaced with a freshly minted 2003 server piece of > software which has run successfully ever since. > > I have replaced hundreds of PC, especially from banks, investment houses and > insurance companies. The PC on which the user works are locked down tight, > the boxes are some of the cheapest pieces of junk that have ever graces a > desktop, but they run without incident for their years (two to three) and > when their lease expires, they are replaced and the cycle continues. The > support IT guys rarely have PC issues, other than hardware failures. > > If the OS that you use, is run in the way it was built for, there are > usually a limited number of problems. If you start trying to hack a system > this is where problems start. Install enough junk-ware on any system and it > will not be long before its crippled. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian > Andersen > Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 1:33 AM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] So long, Norman > > Gustav, > > Where do I even begin? It is entirely possible that either you have been > blessed or I and those close to me personally and professionally have been > cursed, but I have never known a Windows system to be stable for very long. > Usually after 6 or so months it starts developing "quirks". The occasional > slowness or crash or not being able to connect to some device properly etc. > Something just feels off. Then, after that, it's just a question of eventual > disintegration. There are no obvious hints as to what the problem is. Your > anti-virus software manages to find some ugly tracking cookies, but nothing > beyond that. Your hard drive seems fine and SMART doesn't flag anything. > Your system is all up-to-date and you aren't running out of disk space and > memory seems fine. After a while, sleeping/hibernating your computer returns > it to a very slow system where Windows just seems to frequently stare off to > space occasionally for no reason and your USB device (i.e. mouse or whatnot) > refuses! > to connect. No applications are running and so you shrug your shoulders > and figure a clean reboot is the best option. This is often the best > solution, returning your system to its normal speed and state, but for how > long? > > Granted, if you only install a minimum amount of applications and do not > surf the web, you can probably keep Windows pretty stable, but you would not > be the ordinary Windows user then. Most users will be installing many things > over time: applications, games, etc and all the DLLs & other dependencies > that come along with that. Windows is a fickle beast to such users. It works > well for a while, but just the slightest thing will push it over the > critical edge and you never know what that might be. > > If this does not ring familiar to you, then I don't know what to say. This > has been my experience personally and through people who needed technical > help with Windows, including managing a corporate Windows network and > terminal services on Windows Server 2008. The smartest thing you can do is > take a snapshot of your newly installed system with something like > DriveImage XML, making sure to keep your data on a separate partition from > your system partition, and restore your system ever so often. I'm not saying > this as a newcomer to Windows. I've been a PC users since the days of DOS, > but personally decided to jump ship before Vista came out. Saying that, I've > still been managing Windows machines since, so I am familiar enough with > Vista and 7. > > Speaking of terminal services, I've currently got a system with 25-30 or so > connected users, which has a WINSXS folder filling up like crazy with > multiple copies of the same darned DLL files over and over again to the > point where it fills up 15 gigabytes. This server is static in the sense > that no new software has been installed in over a year or two, yet this > directory keeps growing all the time for whatever brilliant reason. My guess > is that Windows Server just keeps on thinking that its probably best to play > safe and duplicate DLLs every single time the same application (office, > firefox and IE) is launched (remind me again what a DLL is for? ). > > Does anyone if it is safe to simply wipe this directory? And do you know why > this is happening specifically? > > Hans > > > > > On 2012-06-02, at 11:52 PM, Gustav Brock wrote: > >> Hi Hans >> >> I don't get it. I've never had the need to reinstall a workstation. Except > once, where multiple local SQL Server installations completely messed up > themselves on my four year old Vista. Which learned me to not install any > SQL Server other than SQL Server Express locally. >> >> /gustav >> >> >>>>> hans.andersen at phulse.com 01-06-12 19:03 >>> >> >> Congratulations on the upgrade. :) >> >> And just in time to dodge the incoming Windows 8 debacle as well. >> >> I remember that feeling of liberation. It totally changed my outlook on > computers. It was back in the days of XP, when Microsoft announced that > Longhorn was going to be called Vista and they were going to cut out all the > best features that they had been touting and promising for years. I switched > over to OpenSUSE back then, but it was still early days for Ubuntu and Mint > didn't exist yet. I remember being amazed having a laptop that had new life > breathed into it. It was stable and fast and didn't need reinstalling every > 6 months to a year. After being a heavy Windows user since 3.11, this was a > new experience for me. :p >> >> By the way, don't under-estimate how powerful WINE is at being able to run > Windows applications on Linux natively. It's not perfect, but it's able to > handle quite a lot of applications rather well. So, if there is any > particular application or game that you miss from Windows and would > frequently use, give it a try. >> >> - Hans >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Jun 4 12:53:09 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2012 10:53:09 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] So long, Norman In-Reply-To: <01ab01cd4263$442e8f70$cc8bae50$@winhaven.net> References: <0A2C8D81-8DA5-4CB9-AF97-2431482F3623@phulse.com> <01ab01cd4263$442e8f70$cc8bae50$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <9F502036FC5440F89D3986BF934665A0@creativesystemdesigns.com> Linux systems are designed to be hacked because of their modularity and their dependency on script files. They are the epitome of the open system. Windows systems are tightly integrated and if hacked too much, they will fail. The old DOS based systems were another hackers-special but when Microsoft morphed into the Windows gui, most of that flexibility was gone. That is the same and more so with a Mac. Tight integration, minimal ability to hack, carefully vetted expensive software and very expensive top-end hardware. Each one of these platforms are totally different in nature and fill the niche of different markets. Linux is a stripped down high performance sports car, mostly for racing enthusiasts. The "real men" that use these systems don't need a gui, and could field dress a motor or transmission, on the side of the road with nothing more than a screw driver and pair of pliers. Most of the gurus that drive these hot-rods, laugh at air-conditioning, don't have wind-shield wipers or even have wind-shields for that matter. Windows is the cheap, Ford or Chevy of systems. They run on any hardware and will carry any load until some junk software accumulation, crappy hardware, or a series of stupid user tricks causes them to fail. This is the type of vehicle that picks up the kids, the groceries, checks the mail, goes fishing with, plays the games and anyone, like the store down the road, the guys across the street or with a few hours of Googling can patched up again. Mac OTOH is a super high-end BMW. Everything on and in it is tightly controlled; no off the shelf products here, no hardware flexibility only a very limited number of specialists even know and can work on the hardware. You don't throw anything in the back seat of this vehicle, tie things to the roof or go bush bashing. The owners tend to be a little snobbish as after all, they don't wear cheap off the shelf runners, they model $150 stylish Rebooks. Each machine has its place. In a business Linux systems are a majority of servers as they are lean, super fast and with limited components are very reliable. Perfect for servers but the initial setup requires an IT guy that is a Linux enthusiast, usually for a few dollars but the reliability guarantees he wouldn't need to be back often. Windows are the products that are dumped on every desktop and any software is put on them. They are cheap and maybe a little flaky but virtually any clerk can fix them. These boxes are the bread and butter of all businesses as they cost little, easy to connect and have become the industry standard. No Uber tech would be seen dead sporting anything but a Mac. They are a symbol of prestige and success. They are great machines for the road-warrior and salesman, as they are designed to be totally Cloud base, Wi-Fi connected and to run internet based software. Whether this philosophy will ever translate to the business world, in the near future is debatable as most businesses are shy of allowing users internet access or storing their data on remote systems. Security and privacy will always be their main concern. The big question is what is Windows trying to do? They appear to be moving away from their standard base, the business world, adopting new standards with emphasis on a more proprietary closed system but this change is not a simple migration but a 90 degree swing. The business world and most of the IT people that support them, don't like abrupt changes and I predict the sales of the new Windows will reflect this. How long will it take for the public to embrace this new system is anyone's guess. Jim From fuller.artful at gmail.com Mon Jun 4 13:36:21 2012 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2012 14:36:21 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] So long, Norman In-Reply-To: <8D6416B7-613E-41CA-B7AF-3E3D59E8A96C@phulse.com> References: <0A2C8D81-8DA5-4CB9-AF97-2431482F3623@phulse.com> <0332DE7F580F469890CAB7D04DC3A349@creativesystemdesigns.com> <8D6416B7-613E-41CA-B7AF-3E3D59E8A96C@phulse.com> Message-ID: What I have learned to do when dealing with native Windows 7 is this (assuming either a virgin start or a backup followed by a format): 1. Install Windows7 and check for service packs. 2. Install Office (whatever version) and check for service packs. 3. Install essential utilities (in my case that includes xPlorer2, NoteTab, Oracle VirtualBox, FoxIt PDF Reader and a few others). 4. Review what's installed to ensure that I haven't forgotten anything. 5. Back up that image to my 1TB external USB 3.0 drive. I try to keep this to what I deem is the minimum for life-support. There are a few hidden assumptions: 1. All my data (My Documents, etc.) lives on another drive or partition, ideally the former. This preference dates back to my days in CP/M and then DOS: programs live Here, data lives there. I've stuck to that maxim through many versions of MS software, and find that it works best for me. 2. I copy my Data drive to the 1TB external every morning at 3am. 3. I burn my Data drive (or in the event of error there, the copy on the external drive) to DVD once a week. 4. I have a completely separate Downloads directory, into which I deposit recent versions of every trial and RTM etc. Everything there is considered disposable, since there is liable to be a refresh next week. I never bother to back this up, since everything there is disposable. I am describing my solution to a no-budget + minimal hardware approach to this problem. That's all I have to offer so far. If I'm missing some obvious optimizations, please feel free to tell me a better approach. So far, this approach has managed to keep me afloat, if not optimized. But if you have better ideas/approaches, I'm all ears. Should you choose to offer advice, please keep in mind that I live on minimal pension and cannot afford any $500+ chunk of sofware. In my semi-retired state, I only make twice that per month. In this situation, despite my enthusiasm, my resources are very limited. A. From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Jun 4 13:49:07 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2012 11:49:07 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] So long, Norman In-Reply-To: References: <0A2C8D81-8DA5-4CB9-AF97-2431482F3623@phulse.com><01ab01cd4263$442e8f70$cc8bae50$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <91CD390AD0CF4E3FB428EC07C7A3FAAA@creativesystemdesigns.com> Let's be honest, without mincing words; the hardware you are talking about was a cheap unpowered piece of junk. It was physically falling apart and was suffering from a dozen pieces of game software... Nothing frys a system like high resource demanding game software on flaky low-end hardware. My personal experiences have been quite different. I bought a good solid laptop, not cheap but definitely not over priced. That laptop is six years old and it has virtual every communications, web-design and software building product, graphic design and manipulation software, database and testing software running on it. It has been dragged to every office, in a dozen towns, that I have worked in and it has been used to setup servers, stations, router, switches, burn software, connect remote techs, testing software, storing data and manage documents. I work on this computer 8 to 12 hours a day, almost every day. It is a little unpowered for the new age as it is Tosiba Satellite, only has a dual core, has two GB of RAM and 120 GB HD. It runs like it always has; solid as a rock. When it comes to Windows computers you are a really a terrible tech and I think it is more willful than by accident. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian Andersen Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 9:02 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] So long, Norman John, These are mostly just observations of other people lately and my experience supporting it at my company. I haven't been a Windows user since 2005 or so, but it was also the reason I left Windows back then. I'm not sure it is specific to gaming. As a recent example, my wife's Win7 laptop had very few games installed (its graphics card was the Intel GMA sort, not powerful enough to run most games) and really only just a handful of additional applications. She mostly used it for surfing, but its now un-usable. No blue screening, just lots of pausing, freezing and general slowness to the point of frustration for her, but there is nothing obviously wrong with it. This is probably the 4th reinstall of Windows on that laptop (HP) in the last 4 or so years, but she's got a new laptop now, so I may just throw Linux onto this machine to extend its life. I'm not saying that every Windows machine will eventually be completely crippled, but I always known them to develop quirks over time and become a less stable system overall (not stability in terms of blue screening, but in the sense that it is not behaving as expected ie. applications not starting, freezing or crashing), often for no identifiable reason. If this hasn't been an issue for you, then you are obviously doing something right, but it's not clear to me what is being done wrong in the cases I have witnessed/experienced. Hans From peter.brawley at earthlink.net Mon Jun 4 15:00:01 2012 From: peter.brawley at earthlink.net (Peter Brawley) Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2012 15:00:01 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] So long, Norman In-Reply-To: <91CD390AD0CF4E3FB428EC07C7A3FAAA@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <0A2C8D81-8DA5-4CB9-AF97-2431482F3623@phulse.com><01ab01cd4263$442e8f70$cc8bae50$@winhaven.net> <91CD390AD0CF4E3FB428EC07C7A3FAAA@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4FCD13C1.5040104@earthlink.net> On 2012-06-04 1:49 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Let's be honest, without mincing words; the hardware you are talking about > was a cheap unpowered piece of junk. It was physically falling apart and was > suffering from a dozen pieces of game software... Nothing frys a system like > high resource demanding game software on flaky low-end hardware. > > My personal experiences have been quite different. I bought a good solid > laptop, not cheap but definitely not over priced. That laptop is six years > old and it has virtual every communications, web-design and software > building product, graphic design and manipulation software, database and > testing software running on it. It has been dragged to every office, in a > dozen towns, that I have worked in and it has been used to setup servers, > stations, router, switches, burn software, connect remote techs, testing > software, storing data and manage documents. I work on this computer 8 to 12 > hours a day, almost every day. It is a little unpowered for the new age as > it is Tosiba Satellite, only has a dual core, has two GB of RAM and 120 GB > HD. > > It runs like it always has; solid as a rock. My experience is very like that. A 2GB XP SP2 laptop with 160GB HD has run abourt 12h/day in lots of locations for about six years with only one persistent problem, and that's due to a Dell design flaw, not to Windows. Dodgy hardware will often look like Windows instability. Of three desktops, two were made from kits, routinely crash, and need a lot of TLC. The one made by HP, no more expensive than the others, is steady as a rock. PB ----- > > When it comes to Windows computers you are a really a terrible tech and I > think it is more willful than by accident. ;-) > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian > Andersen > Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 9:02 AM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] So long, Norman > > > John, > > These are mostly just observations of other people lately and my experience > supporting it at my company. I haven't been a Windows user since 2005 or so, > but it was also the reason I left Windows back then. > > I'm not sure it is specific to gaming. As a recent example, my wife's Win7 > laptop had very few games installed (its graphics card was the Intel GMA > sort, not powerful enough to run most games) and really only just a handful > of additional applications. She mostly used it for surfing, but its now > un-usable. No blue screening, just lots of pausing, freezing and general > slowness to the point of frustration for her, but there is nothing obviously > wrong with it. > > This is probably the 4th reinstall of Windows on that laptop (HP) in the > last 4 or so years, but she's got a new laptop now, so I may just throw > Linux onto this machine to extend its life. > > I'm not saying that every Windows machine will eventually be completely > crippled, but I always known them to develop quirks over time and become a > less stable system overall (not stability in terms of blue screening, but in > the sense that it is not behaving as expected ie. applications not starting, > freezing or crashing), often for no identifiable reason. > > If this hasn't been an issue for you, then you are obviously doing something > right, but it's not clear to me what is being done wrong in the cases I have > witnessed/experienced. > > Hans > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From hans.andersen at phulse.com Mon Jun 4 15:22:42 2012 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2012 13:22:42 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] So long, Norman In-Reply-To: <91CD390AD0CF4E3FB428EC07C7A3FAAA@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <0A2C8D81-8DA5-4CB9-AF97-2431482F3623@phulse.com><01ab01cd4263$442e8f70$cc8bae50$@winhaven.net> <91CD390AD0CF4E3FB428EC07C7A3FAAA@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <654828DE-90B4-4C6F-AF76-696409FC4B22@phulse.com> Jim, You are wrong. I'm looking at the machine as we speak and it has only 4 games installed: SimCity 4 Diablo 2 Civilization III CivCity Rome None of these are resource demanding games, even for a machine like this. The rest of the software installed is all the usual stuff. CuteFTP, OpenOffice, PDF Creator, Skype, Canon Printer Utilities, Google Picasa, all the Microsoft applications like MSN Messenger & Silverlight, Chrome, Firefox etc, and some paint / photo manipulation software. The system specs on this machine are: HP Pavillion DV2714CA Intel dual core T2330 1.6ghz, 1mb L2 cache, 533mhz FSB 2 gigs of DDR2 ram 160 gb sata hd You can read the rest here: http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/ca/en/ho/WF06b/12139188-78299199-78299212-78299212-78299212-81135007-81575996.html?dnr=1 It has only started falling apart in the last year. The chassis frame around the screen is coming apart, but this is superficial. Hardware-wise it is still fine. It could probably be fixed and it would be as good as new. So, the user of this system has neither been installing weird applications like crazy, nor is this some hacked together cheap laptop from some little known company. Hans On 2012-06-04, at 11:49 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Let's be honest, without mincing words; the hardware you are talking about > was a cheap unpowered piece of junk. It was physically falling apart and was > suffering from a dozen pieces of game software... Nothing frys a system like > high resource demanding game software on flaky low-end hardware. > > My personal experiences have been quite different. I bought a good solid > laptop, not cheap but definitely not over priced. That laptop is six years > old and it has virtual every communications, web-design and software > building product, graphic design and manipulation software, database and > testing software running on it. It has been dragged to every office, in a > dozen towns, that I have worked in and it has been used to setup servers, > stations, router, switches, burn software, connect remote techs, testing > software, storing data and manage documents. I work on this computer 8 to 12 > hours a day, almost every day. It is a little unpowered for the new age as > it is Tosiba Satellite, only has a dual core, has two GB of RAM and 120 GB > HD. > > It runs like it always has; solid as a rock. > > When it comes to Windows computers you are a really a terrible tech and I > think it is more willful than by accident. ;-) > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian > Andersen > Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 9:02 AM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] So long, Norman > > > John, > > These are mostly just observations of other people lately and my experience > supporting it at my company. I haven't been a Windows user since 2005 or so, > but it was also the reason I left Windows back then. > > I'm not sure it is specific to gaming. As a recent example, my wife's Win7 > laptop had very few games installed (its graphics card was the Intel GMA > sort, not powerful enough to run most games) and really only just a handful > of additional applications. She mostly used it for surfing, but its now > un-usable. No blue screening, just lots of pausing, freezing and general > slowness to the point of frustration for her, but there is nothing obviously > wrong with it. > > This is probably the 4th reinstall of Windows on that laptop (HP) in the > last 4 or so years, but she's got a new laptop now, so I may just throw > Linux onto this machine to extend its life. > > I'm not saying that every Windows machine will eventually be completely > crippled, but I always known them to develop quirks over time and become a > less stable system overall (not stability in terms of blue screening, but in > the sense that it is not behaving as expected ie. applications not starting, > freezing or crashing), often for no identifiable reason. > > If this hasn't been an issue for you, then you are obviously doing something > right, but it's not clear to me what is being done wrong in the cases I have > witnessed/experienced. > > Hans > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Mon Jun 4 15:41:04 2012 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2012 15:41:04 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] So long, Norman In-Reply-To: <654828DE-90B4-4C6F-AF76-696409FC4B22@phulse.com> References: <0A2C8D81-8DA5-4CB9-AF97-2431482F3623@phulse.com><01ab01cd4263$442e8f70$cc8bae50$@winhaven.net> <91CD390AD0CF4E3FB428EC07C7A3FAAA@creativesystemdesigns.com> <654828DE-90B4-4C6F-AF76-696409FC4B22@phulse.com> Message-ID: <009b01cd4292$5ce125d0$16a37170$@winhaven.net> Like I said, I'm not a Windows fanatic, it just works for me. But just to relate a Mac experience; I have quite a few Mac users on customer sites. I once was working on the Windows Server 2003 print server in the prepress department of a printing house, the graphics artist moaned made some comment and restarted her Mac. I asked her what happened and she said it locked up, it does that all the time. I asked if she has had someone look at it for her. She said yes, but they said there was nothing they could do so I just restart it and it works OK then. So later I asked the office manager if I should check it out and she said no, they were told it was just user error and she won't change how she does things so she just deals with it. Wow! If one of the front office PCs had done that they would have been all over it. But some Mac dude had told them it was user error and they just bought into it and never worried about it. I did have a Mac techie that I subbed with that I could have check it out but they just didn't care. I was just flabbergasted. -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian Andersen Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 3:23 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] So long, Norman Jim, You are wrong. I'm looking at the machine as we speak and it has only 4 games installed: SimCity 4 Diablo 2 Civilization III CivCity Rome None of these are resource demanding games, even for a machine like this. The rest of the software installed is all the usual stuff. CuteFTP, OpenOffice, PDF Creator, Skype, Canon Printer Utilities, Google Picasa, all the Microsoft applications like MSN Messenger & Silverlight, Chrome, Firefox etc, and some paint / photo manipulation software. The system specs on this machine are: HP Pavillion DV2714CA Intel dual core T2330 1.6ghz, 1mb L2 cache, 533mhz FSB 2 gigs of DDR2 ram 160 gb sata hd You can read the rest here: http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/ca/en/ho/WF06b/12139188-78299199-78299212-782 99212-78299212-81135007-81575996.html?dnr=1 It has only started falling apart in the last year. The chassis frame around the screen is coming apart, but this is superficial. Hardware-wise it is still fine. It could probably be fixed and it would be as good as new. So, the user of this system has neither been installing weird applications like crazy, nor is this some hacked together cheap laptop from some little known company. Hans On 2012-06-04, at 11:49 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Let's be honest, without mincing words; the hardware you are talking > about was a cheap unpowered piece of junk. It was physically falling > apart and was suffering from a dozen pieces of game software... > Nothing frys a system like high resource demanding game software on flaky low-end hardware. > > My personal experiences have been quite different. I bought a good > solid laptop, not cheap but definitely not over priced. That laptop is > six years old and it has virtual every communications, web-design and > software building product, graphic design and manipulation software, > database and testing software running on it. It has been dragged to > every office, in a dozen towns, that I have worked in and it has been > used to setup servers, stations, router, switches, burn software, > connect remote techs, testing software, storing data and manage > documents. I work on this computer 8 to 12 hours a day, almost every > day. It is a little unpowered for the new age as it is Tosiba > Satellite, only has a dual core, has two GB of RAM and 120 GB HD. > > It runs like it always has; solid as a rock. > > When it comes to Windows computers you are a really a terrible tech > and I think it is more willful than by accident. ;-) > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Hans-Christian Andersen > Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 9:02 AM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] So long, Norman > > > John, > > These are mostly just observations of other people lately and my > experience supporting it at my company. I haven't been a Windows user > since 2005 or so, but it was also the reason I left Windows back then. > > I'm not sure it is specific to gaming. As a recent example, my wife's > Win7 laptop had very few games installed (its graphics card was the > Intel GMA sort, not powerful enough to run most games) and really only > just a handful of additional applications. She mostly used it for > surfing, but its now un-usable. No blue screening, just lots of > pausing, freezing and general slowness to the point of frustration for > her, but there is nothing obviously wrong with it. > > This is probably the 4th reinstall of Windows on that laptop (HP) in > the last 4 or so years, but she's got a new laptop now, so I may just > throw Linux onto this machine to extend its life. > > I'm not saying that every Windows machine will eventually be > completely crippled, but I always known them to develop quirks over > time and become a less stable system overall (not stability in terms > of blue screening, but in the sense that it is not behaving as > expected ie. applications not starting, freezing or crashing), often for no identifiable reason. > > If this hasn't been an issue for you, then you are obviously doing > something right, but it's not clear to me what is being done wrong in > the cases I have witnessed/experienced. > > Hans > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From tinanfields at torchlake.com Mon Jun 4 16:14:08 2012 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2012 17:14:08 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] So long, Norman In-Reply-To: <009b01cd4292$5ce125d0$16a37170$@winhaven.net> References: <0A2C8D81-8DA5-4CB9-AF97-2431482F3623@phulse.com><01ab01cd4263$442e8f70$cc8bae50$@winhaven.net> <91CD390AD0CF4E3FB428EC07C7A3FAAA@creativesystemdesigns.com> <654828DE-90B4-4C6F-AF76-696409FC4B22@phulse.com> <009b01cd4292$5ce125d0$16a37170$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <4FCD2520.90801@torchlake.com> Yeah - that's rather disrespectful of the graphics artist! I wish you had been able to get a look at it. T Tina Norris Fields tinanfields at torchlake.com 231-322-2787 On 6/4/2012 4:41 PM, John Bartow wrote: > Like I said, I'm not a Windows fanatic, it just works for me. But just to > relate a Mac experience; I have quite a few Mac users on customer sites. I > once was working on the Windows Server 2003 print server in the prepress > department of a printing house, the graphics artist moaned made some comment > and restarted her Mac. I asked her what happened and she said it locked up, > it does that all the time. I asked if she has had someone look at it for > her. She said yes, but they said there was nothing they could do so I just > restart it and it works OK then. So later I asked the office manager if I > should check it out and she said no, they were told it was just user error > and she won't change how she does things so she just deals with it. Wow! If > one of the front office PCs had done that they would have been all over it. > But some Mac dude had told them it was user error and they just bought into > it and never worried about it. I did have a Mac techie that I subbed with > that I could have check it out but they just didn't care. I was just > flabbergasted. > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian > Andersen > Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 3:23 PM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] So long, Norman > > > Jim, > > You are wrong. I'm looking at the machine as we speak and it has only 4 > games installed: > SimCity 4 > Diablo 2 > Civilization III > CivCity Rome > > None of these are resource demanding games, even for a machine like this. > > The rest of the software installed is all the usual stuff. CuteFTP, > OpenOffice, PDF Creator, Skype, Canon Printer Utilities, Google Picasa, all > the Microsoft applications like MSN Messenger& Silverlight, Chrome, Firefox > etc, and some paint / photo manipulation software. > > The system specs on this machine are: > > HP Pavillion DV2714CA > > Intel dual core T2330 1.6ghz, 1mb L2 cache, 533mhz FSB > 2 gigs of DDR2 ram > 160 gb sata hd > > You can read the rest here: > http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/ca/en/ho/WF06b/12139188-78299199-78299212-782 > 99212-78299212-81135007-81575996.html?dnr=1 > > It has only started falling apart in the last year. The chassis frame around > the screen is coming apart, but this is superficial. Hardware-wise it is > still fine. It could probably be fixed and it would be as good as new. > > So, the user of this system has neither been installing weird applications > like crazy, nor is this some hacked together cheap laptop from some little > known company. > > Hans > > > > > On 2012-06-04, at 11:49 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > >> Let's be honest, without mincing words; the hardware you are talking >> about was a cheap unpowered piece of junk. It was physically falling >> apart and was suffering from a dozen pieces of game software... >> Nothing frys a system like high resource demanding game software on flaky > low-end hardware. >> My personal experiences have been quite different. I bought a good >> solid laptop, not cheap but definitely not over priced. That laptop is >> six years old and it has virtual every communications, web-design and >> software building product, graphic design and manipulation software, >> database and testing software running on it. It has been dragged to >> every office, in a dozen towns, that I have worked in and it has been >> used to setup servers, stations, router, switches, burn software, >> connect remote techs, testing software, storing data and manage >> documents. I work on this computer 8 to 12 hours a day, almost every >> day. It is a little unpowered for the new age as it is Tosiba >> Satellite, only has a dual core, has two GB of RAM and 120 GB HD. >> >> It runs like it always has; solid as a rock. >> >> When it comes to Windows computers you are a really a terrible tech >> and I think it is more willful than by accident. ;-) >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of >> Hans-Christian Andersen >> Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 9:02 AM >> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues >> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] So long, Norman >> >> >> John, >> >> These are mostly just observations of other people lately and my >> experience supporting it at my company. I haven't been a Windows user >> since 2005 or so, but it was also the reason I left Windows back then. >> >> I'm not sure it is specific to gaming. As a recent example, my wife's >> Win7 laptop had very few games installed (its graphics card was the >> Intel GMA sort, not powerful enough to run most games) and really only >> just a handful of additional applications. She mostly used it for >> surfing, but its now un-usable. No blue screening, just lots of >> pausing, freezing and general slowness to the point of frustration for >> her, but there is nothing obviously wrong with it. >> >> This is probably the 4th reinstall of Windows on that laptop (HP) in >> the last 4 or so years, but she's got a new laptop now, so I may just >> throw Linux onto this machine to extend its life. >> >> I'm not saying that every Windows machine will eventually be >> completely crippled, but I always known them to develop quirks over >> time and become a less stable system overall (not stability in terms >> of blue screening, but in the sense that it is not behaving as >> expected ie. applications not starting, freezing or crashing), often for > no identifiable reason. >> If this hasn't been an issue for you, then you are obviously doing >> something right, but it's not clear to me what is being done wrong in >> the cases I have witnessed/experienced. >> >> Hans >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From hans.andersen at phulse.com Mon Jun 4 16:20:36 2012 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2012 14:20:36 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] So long, Norman In-Reply-To: <009b01cd4292$5ce125d0$16a37170$@winhaven.net> References: <0A2C8D81-8DA5-4CB9-AF97-2431482F3623@phulse.com> <01ab01cd4263$442e8f70$cc8bae50$@winhaven.net> <91CD390AD0CF4E3FB428EC07C7A3FAAA@creativesystemdesigns.com> <654828DE-90B4-4C6F-AF76-696409FC4B22@phulse.com> <009b01cd4292$5ce125d0$16a37170$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: Haha. To some extent they were right ironically. There is a user error, if a person is willing to accept that their computer locks up all the time just because some dude couldn't figure out what the issue is... all the while, refusing any offers of help after that. Saying that, sounds a lot like a dying hard drive. I have that problem at the moment on my own 6 year old laptop. SMART is swearing like a drunken sailor and the laptop will work fine until the hard drive hits a certain sector and then I get the dreaded click of death. click click click. So I'm going to have to replace the drive as soon as I get a chance, this time with an SSD! :D - Hans On 2012-06-04, at 1:41 PM, "John Bartow" wrote: > Like I said, I'm not a Windows fanatic, it just works for me. But just to > relate a Mac experience; I have quite a few Mac users on customer sites. I > once was working on the Windows Server 2003 print server in the prepress > department of a printing house, the graphics artist moaned made some comment > and restarted her Mac. I asked her what happened and she said it locked up, > it does that all the time. I asked if she has had someone look at it for > her. She said yes, but they said there was nothing they could do so I just > restart it and it works OK then. So later I asked the office manager if I > should check it out and she said no, they were told it was just user error > and she won't change how she does things so she just deals with it. Wow! If > one of the front office PCs had done that they would have been all over it. > But some Mac dude had told them it was user error and they just bought into > it and never worried about it. I did have a Mac techie that I subbed with > that I could have check it out but they just didn't care. I was just > flabbergasted. > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian > Andersen > Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 3:23 PM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] So long, Norman > > > Jim, > > You are wrong. I'm looking at the machine as we speak and it has only 4 > games installed: > SimCity 4 > Diablo 2 > Civilization III > CivCity Rome > > None of these are resource demanding games, even for a machine like this. > > The rest of the software installed is all the usual stuff. CuteFTP, > OpenOffice, PDF Creator, Skype, Canon Printer Utilities, Google Picasa, all > the Microsoft applications like MSN Messenger & Silverlight, Chrome, Firefox > etc, and some paint / photo manipulation software. > > The system specs on this machine are: > > HP Pavillion DV2714CA > > Intel dual core T2330 1.6ghz, 1mb L2 cache, 533mhz FSB > 2 gigs of DDR2 ram > 160 gb sata hd > > You can read the rest here: > http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/ca/en/ho/WF06b/12139188-78299199-78299212-782 > 99212-78299212-81135007-81575996.html?dnr=1 > > It has only started falling apart in the last year. The chassis frame around > the screen is coming apart, but this is superficial. Hardware-wise it is > still fine. It could probably be fixed and it would be as good as new. > > So, the user of this system has neither been installing weird applications > like crazy, nor is this some hacked together cheap laptop from some little > known company. > > Hans > > > > > On 2012-06-04, at 11:49 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > >> Let's be honest, without mincing words; the hardware you are talking >> about was a cheap unpowered piece of junk. It was physically falling >> apart and was suffering from a dozen pieces of game software... >> Nothing frys a system like high resource demanding game software on flaky > low-end hardware. >> >> My personal experiences have been quite different. I bought a good >> solid laptop, not cheap but definitely not over priced. That laptop is >> six years old and it has virtual every communications, web-design and >> software building product, graphic design and manipulation software, >> database and testing software running on it. It has been dragged to >> every office, in a dozen towns, that I have worked in and it has been >> used to setup servers, stations, router, switches, burn software, >> connect remote techs, testing software, storing data and manage >> documents. I work on this computer 8 to 12 hours a day, almost every >> day. It is a little unpowered for the new age as it is Tosiba >> Satellite, only has a dual core, has two GB of RAM and 120 GB HD. >> >> It runs like it always has; solid as a rock. >> >> When it comes to Windows computers you are a really a terrible tech >> and I think it is more willful than by accident. ;-) >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of >> Hans-Christian Andersen >> Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 9:02 AM >> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues >> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] So long, Norman >> >> >> John, >> >> These are mostly just observations of other people lately and my >> experience supporting it at my company. I haven't been a Windows user >> since 2005 or so, but it was also the reason I left Windows back then. >> >> I'm not sure it is specific to gaming. As a recent example, my wife's >> Win7 laptop had very few games installed (its graphics card was the >> Intel GMA sort, not powerful enough to run most games) and really only >> just a handful of additional applications. She mostly used it for >> surfing, but its now un-usable. No blue screening, just lots of >> pausing, freezing and general slowness to the point of frustration for >> her, but there is nothing obviously wrong with it. >> >> This is probably the 4th reinstall of Windows on that laptop (HP) in >> the last 4 or so years, but she's got a new laptop now, so I may just >> throw Linux onto this machine to extend its life. >> >> I'm not saying that every Windows machine will eventually be >> completely crippled, but I always known them to develop quirks over >> time and become a less stable system overall (not stability in terms >> of blue screening, but in the sense that it is not behaving as >> expected ie. applications not starting, freezing or crashing), often for > no identifiable reason. >> >> If this hasn't been an issue for you, then you are obviously doing >> something right, but it's not clear to me what is being done wrong in >> the cases I have witnessed/experienced. >> >> Hans >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Jun 4 21:14:17 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2012 19:14:17 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] So long, Norman In-Reply-To: <654828DE-90B4-4C6F-AF76-696409FC4B22@phulse.com> References: <0A2C8D81-8DA5-4CB9-AF97-2431482F3623@phulse.com><01ab01cd4263$442e8f70$cc8bae50$@winhaven.net><91CD390AD0CF4E3FB428EC07C7A3FAAA@creativesystemdesigns.com> <654828DE-90B4-4C6F-AF76-696409FC4B22@phulse.com> Message-ID: Hi Hans: Ask how many games I have on my system... The battery was shot from the Git-Go and the power cable soon followed suit. That aside please note that most Techs, who support Windows PCs, sometimes hundreds, on a single site, do not and did not have your experience. The systems may not be great pieces of hardware but they do the job, for the mostly reliably and without issues...and Business just loves them. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian Andersen Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 1:23 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] So long, Norman Jim, You are wrong. I'm looking at the machine as we speak and it has only 4 games installed: SimCity 4 Diablo 2 Civilization III CivCity Rome None of these are resource demanding games, even for a machine like this. The rest of the software installed is all the usual stuff. CuteFTP, OpenOffice, PDF Creator, Skype, Canon Printer Utilities, Google Picasa, all the Microsoft applications like MSN Messenger & Silverlight, Chrome, Firefox etc, and some paint / photo manipulation software. The system specs on this machine are: HP Pavillion DV2714CA Intel dual core T2330 1.6ghz, 1mb L2 cache, 533mhz FSB 2 gigs of DDR2 ram 160 gb sata hd You can read the rest here: http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/ca/en/ho/WF06b/12139188-78299199-78299212-782 99212-78299212-81135007-81575996.html?dnr=1 It has only started falling apart in the last year. The chassis frame around the screen is coming apart, but this is superficial. Hardware-wise it is still fine. It could probably be fixed and it would be as good as new. So, the user of this system has neither been installing weird applications like crazy, nor is this some hacked together cheap laptop from some little known company. Hans On 2012-06-04, at 11:49 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Let's be honest, without mincing words; the hardware you are talking about > was a cheap unpowered piece of junk. It was physically falling apart and was > suffering from a dozen pieces of game software... Nothing frys a system like > high resource demanding game software on flaky low-end hardware. > > My personal experiences have been quite different. I bought a good solid > laptop, not cheap but definitely not over priced. That laptop is six years > old and it has virtual every communications, web-design and software > building product, graphic design and manipulation software, database and > testing software running on it. It has been dragged to every office, in a > dozen towns, that I have worked in and it has been used to setup servers, > stations, router, switches, burn software, connect remote techs, testing > software, storing data and manage documents. I work on this computer 8 to 12 > hours a day, almost every day. It is a little unpowered for the new age as > it is Tosiba Satellite, only has a dual core, has two GB of RAM and 120 GB > HD. > > It runs like it always has; solid as a rock. > > When it comes to Windows computers you are a really a terrible tech and I > think it is more willful than by accident. ;-) > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian > Andersen > Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 9:02 AM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] So long, Norman > > > John, > > These are mostly just observations of other people lately and my experience > supporting it at my company. I haven't been a Windows user since 2005 or so, > but it was also the reason I left Windows back then. > > I'm not sure it is specific to gaming. As a recent example, my wife's Win7 > laptop had very few games installed (its graphics card was the Intel GMA > sort, not powerful enough to run most games) and really only just a handful > of additional applications. She mostly used it for surfing, but its now > un-usable. No blue screening, just lots of pausing, freezing and general > slowness to the point of frustration for her, but there is nothing obviously > wrong with it. > > This is probably the 4th reinstall of Windows on that laptop (HP) in the > last 4 or so years, but she's got a new laptop now, so I may just throw > Linux onto this machine to extend its life. > > I'm not saying that every Windows machine will eventually be completely > crippled, but I always known them to develop quirks over time and become a > less stable system overall (not stability in terms of blue screening, but in > the sense that it is not behaving as expected ie. applications not starting, > freezing or crashing), often for no identifiable reason. > > If this hasn't been an issue for you, then you are obviously doing something > right, but it's not clear to me what is being done wrong in the cases I have > witnessed/experienced. > > Hans > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From hans.andersen at phulse.com Mon Jun 4 22:48:44 2012 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2012 20:48:44 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] So long, Norman In-Reply-To: References: <0A2C8D81-8DA5-4CB9-AF97-2431482F3623@phulse.com> <01ab01cd4263$442e8f70$cc8bae50$@winhaven.net> <91CD390AD0CF4E3FB428EC07C7A3FAAA@creativesystemdesigns.com> <654828DE-90B4-4C6F-AF76-696409FC4B22@phulse.com> Message-ID: <5249F58A-F7CA-4108-90BE-C264C1F86018@phulse.com> Ok, so based on what you are saying, Windows is not a good operating system to install a few games and your usual applications - basically regular home use - and should only be used as a locked down workstation. I think I can actually agree with you in that point! - Hans On 2012-06-04, at 7:14 PM, "Jim Lawrence" wrote: > Hi Hans: > > Ask how many games I have on my system... > > The battery was shot from the Git-Go and the power cable soon followed suit. > > > That aside please note that most Techs, who support Windows PCs, sometimes > hundreds, on a single site, do not and did not have your experience. The > systems may not be great pieces of hardware but they do the job, for the > mostly reliably and without issues...and Business just loves them. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian > Andersen > Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 1:23 PM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] So long, Norman > > > Jim, > > You are wrong. I'm looking at the machine as we speak and it has only 4 > games installed: > SimCity 4 > Diablo 2 > Civilization III > CivCity Rome > > None of these are resource demanding games, even for a machine like this. > > The rest of the software installed is all the usual stuff. CuteFTP, > OpenOffice, PDF Creator, Skype, Canon Printer Utilities, Google Picasa, all > the Microsoft applications like MSN Messenger & Silverlight, Chrome, Firefox > etc, and some paint / photo manipulation software. > > The system specs on this machine are: > > HP Pavillion DV2714CA > > Intel dual core T2330 1.6ghz, 1mb L2 cache, 533mhz FSB > 2 gigs of DDR2 ram > 160 gb sata hd > > You can read the rest here: > http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/ca/en/ho/WF06b/12139188-78299199-78299212-782 > 99212-78299212-81135007-81575996.html?dnr=1 > > It has only started falling apart in the last year. The chassis frame around > the screen is coming apart, but this is superficial. Hardware-wise it is > still fine. It could probably be fixed and it would be as good as new. > > So, the user of this system has neither been installing weird applications > like crazy, nor is this some hacked together cheap laptop from some little > known company. > > Hans > > > > > On 2012-06-04, at 11:49 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > >> Let's be honest, without mincing words; the hardware you are talking about >> was a cheap unpowered piece of junk. It was physically falling apart and > was >> suffering from a dozen pieces of game software... Nothing frys a system > like >> high resource demanding game software on flaky low-end hardware. >> >> My personal experiences have been quite different. I bought a good solid >> laptop, not cheap but definitely not over priced. That laptop is six years >> old and it has virtual every communications, web-design and software >> building product, graphic design and manipulation software, database and >> testing software running on it. It has been dragged to every office, in a >> dozen towns, that I have worked in and it has been used to setup servers, >> stations, router, switches, burn software, connect remote techs, testing >> software, storing data and manage documents. I work on this computer 8 to > 12 >> hours a day, almost every day. It is a little unpowered for the new age as >> it is Tosiba Satellite, only has a dual core, has two GB of RAM and 120 GB >> HD. >> >> It runs like it always has; solid as a rock. >> >> When it comes to Windows computers you are a really a terrible tech and I >> think it is more willful than by accident. ;-) >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian >> Andersen >> Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 9:02 AM >> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues >> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] So long, Norman >> >> >> John, >> >> These are mostly just observations of other people lately and my > experience >> supporting it at my company. I haven't been a Windows user since 2005 or > so, >> but it was also the reason I left Windows back then. >> >> I'm not sure it is specific to gaming. As a recent example, my wife's Win7 >> laptop had very few games installed (its graphics card was the Intel GMA >> sort, not powerful enough to run most games) and really only just a > handful >> of additional applications. She mostly used it for surfing, but its now >> un-usable. No blue screening, just lots of pausing, freezing and general >> slowness to the point of frustration for her, but there is nothing > obviously >> wrong with it. >> >> This is probably the 4th reinstall of Windows on that laptop (HP) in the >> last 4 or so years, but she's got a new laptop now, so I may just throw >> Linux onto this machine to extend its life. >> >> I'm not saying that every Windows machine will eventually be completely >> crippled, but I always known them to develop quirks over time and become a >> less stable system overall (not stability in terms of blue screening, but > in >> the sense that it is not behaving as expected ie. applications not > starting, >> freezing or crashing), often for no identifiable reason. >> >> If this hasn't been an issue for you, then you are obviously doing > something >> right, but it's not clear to me what is being done wrong in the cases I > have >> witnessed/experienced. >> >> Hans >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From hans.andersen at phulse.com Mon Jun 4 22:53:27 2012 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2012 20:53:27 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] So long, Norman In-Reply-To: References: <0A2C8D81-8DA5-4CB9-AF97-2431482F3623@phulse.com> <01ab01cd4263$442e8f70$cc8bae50$@winhaven.net> <91CD390AD0CF4E3FB428EC07C7A3FAAA@creativesystemdesigns.com> <654828DE-90B4-4C6F-AF76-696409FC4B22@phulse.com> Message-ID: <9BBDD226-DE6F-4CEA-9B9D-3B4F434C170D@phulse.com> Regarding the battery, batteries get recalled all the time and the power cable got chewed up from wear and tear. In addition to that, the ethernet port was not longer functional (you accidentally tore out the network cable, if you recall). But, like I said, this happens to all hardware - desktops and laptops. Its not indicative of anything. If you give me the model number of your laptop, I'm sure I can find people complaining of defects online. - Hans On 2012-06-04, at 7:14 PM, "Jim Lawrence" wrote: > Hi Hans: > > Ask how many games I have on my system... > > The battery was shot from the Git-Go and the power cable soon followed suit. > > > That aside please note that most Techs, who support Windows PCs, sometimes > hundreds, on a single site, do not and did not have your experience. The > systems may not be great pieces of hardware but they do the job, for the > mostly reliably and without issues...and Business just loves them. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian > Andersen > Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 1:23 PM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] So long, Norman > > > Jim, > > You are wrong. I'm looking at the machine as we speak and it has only 4 > games installed: > SimCity 4 > Diablo 2 > Civilization III > CivCity Rome > > None of these are resource demanding games, even for a machine like this. > > The rest of the software installed is all the usual stuff. CuteFTP, > OpenOffice, PDF Creator, Skype, Canon Printer Utilities, Google Picasa, all > the Microsoft applications like MSN Messenger & Silverlight, Chrome, Firefox > etc, and some paint / photo manipulation software. > > The system specs on this machine are: > > HP Pavillion DV2714CA > > Intel dual core T2330 1.6ghz, 1mb L2 cache, 533mhz FSB > 2 gigs of DDR2 ram > 160 gb sata hd > > You can read the rest here: > http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/ca/en/ho/WF06b/12139188-78299199-78299212-782 > 99212-78299212-81135007-81575996.html?dnr=1 > > It has only started falling apart in the last year. The chassis frame around > the screen is coming apart, but this is superficial. Hardware-wise it is > still fine. It could probably be fixed and it would be as good as new. > > So, the user of this system has neither been installing weird applications > like crazy, nor is this some hacked together cheap laptop from some little > known company. > > Hans > > > > > On 2012-06-04, at 11:49 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > >> Let's be honest, without mincing words; the hardware you are talking about >> was a cheap unpowered piece of junk. It was physically falling apart and > was >> suffering from a dozen pieces of game software... Nothing frys a system > like >> high resource demanding game software on flaky low-end hardware. >> >> My personal experiences have been quite different. I bought a good solid >> laptop, not cheap but definitely not over priced. That laptop is six years >> old and it has virtual every communications, web-design and software >> building product, graphic design and manipulation software, database and >> testing software running on it. It has been dragged to every office, in a >> dozen towns, that I have worked in and it has been used to setup servers, >> stations, router, switches, burn software, connect remote techs, testing >> software, storing data and manage documents. I work on this computer 8 to > 12 >> hours a day, almost every day. It is a little unpowered for the new age as >> it is Tosiba Satellite, only has a dual core, has two GB of RAM and 120 GB >> HD. >> >> It runs like it always has; solid as a rock. >> >> When it comes to Windows computers you are a really a terrible tech and I >> think it is more willful than by accident. ;-) >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian >> Andersen >> Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 9:02 AM >> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues >> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] So long, Norman >> >> >> John, >> >> These are mostly just observations of other people lately and my > experience >> supporting it at my company. I haven't been a Windows user since 2005 or > so, >> but it was also the reason I left Windows back then. >> >> I'm not sure it is specific to gaming. As a recent example, my wife's Win7 >> laptop had very few games installed (its graphics card was the Intel GMA >> sort, not powerful enough to run most games) and really only just a > handful >> of additional applications. She mostly used it for surfing, but its now >> un-usable. No blue screening, just lots of pausing, freezing and general >> slowness to the point of frustration for her, but there is nothing > obviously >> wrong with it. >> >> This is probably the 4th reinstall of Windows on that laptop (HP) in the >> last 4 or so years, but she's got a new laptop now, so I may just throw >> Linux onto this machine to extend its life. >> >> I'm not saying that every Windows machine will eventually be completely >> crippled, but I always known them to develop quirks over time and become a >> less stable system overall (not stability in terms of blue screening, but > in >> the sense that it is not behaving as expected ie. applications not > starting, >> freezing or crashing), often for no identifiable reason. >> >> If this hasn't been an issue for you, then you are obviously doing > something >> right, but it's not clear to me what is being done wrong in the cases I > have >> witnessed/experienced. >> >> Hans >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Mon Jun 4 23:01:18 2012 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2012 00:01:18 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] So long, Norman In-Reply-To: <9BBDD226-DE6F-4CEA-9B9D-3B4F434C170D@phulse.com> References: <0A2C8D81-8DA5-4CB9-AF97-2431482F3623@phulse.com> <01ab01cd4263$442e8f70$cc8bae50$@winhaven.net> <91CD390AD0CF4E3FB428EC07C7A3FAAA@creativesystemdesigns.com> <654828DE-90B4-4C6F-AF76-696409FC4B22@phulse.com> <9BBDD226-DE6F-4CEA-9B9D-3B4F434C170D@phulse.com> Message-ID: Actually this doesn't happen to all hardware. I've had the same hammer for almost 30 years now. And it's never crashed or hung up or anything. Just keeps on banging in nails and the foreheads of occasional intruders and unruly relatives. LOL. Arthur On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 11:53 PM, Hans-Christian Andersen < hans.andersen at phulse.com> wrote: > ... > > But, like I said, this happens to all hardware - desktops and laptops. Its > not indicative of anything. > > From hans.andersen at phulse.com Mon Jun 4 23:24:11 2012 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2012 21:24:11 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] So long, Norman In-Reply-To: References: <0A2C8D81-8DA5-4CB9-AF97-2431482F3623@phulse.com> <01ab01cd4263$442e8f70$cc8bae50$@winhaven.net> <91CD390AD0CF4E3FB428EC07C7A3FAAA@creativesystemdesigns.com> <654828DE-90B4-4C6F-AF76-696409FC4B22@phulse.com> <9BBDD226-DE6F-4CEA-9B9D-3B4F434C170D@phulse.com> Message-ID: <5CE94352-5DBB-497E-B2E0-CAE22DEB5767@phulse.com> Heh heh heh. ;) - Hans On 2012-06-04, at 9:01 PM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > Actually this doesn't happen to all hardware. I've had the same hammer for > almost 30 years now. And it's never crashed or hung up or anything. Just > keeps on banging in nails and the foreheads of occasional intruders and > unruly relatives. LOL. > > Arthur > > On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 11:53 PM, Hans-Christian Andersen < > hans.andersen at phulse.com> wrote: > >> ... >> >> But, like I said, this happens to all hardware - desktops and laptops. Its >> not indicative of anything. >> >> > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Jun 4 23:58:25 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2012 21:58:25 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] So long, Norman In-Reply-To: <5249F58A-F7CA-4108-90BE-C264C1F86018@phulse.com> References: <0A2C8D81-8DA5-4CB9-AF97-2431482F3623@phulse.com><01ab01cd4263$442e8f70$cc8bae50$@winhaven.net><91CD390AD0CF4E3FB428EC07C7A3FAAA@creativesystemdesigns.com><654828DE-90B4-4C6F-AF76-696409FC4B22@phulse.com> <5249F58A-F7CA-4108-90BE-C264C1F86018@phulse.com> Message-ID: <2125A974EBCD4044BD2DE2D70CC375AF@creativesystemdesigns.com> It seems that I have installed every type of software on the computer and it just works perfectly, everytime... I doubt whether this is unusual...this is most likely is a normal situation. Your problem is the exception and not the rule. I am truly sorry that you have had such bad luck with computers...must be flaky hard drives? ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian Andersen Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 8:49 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] So long, Norman Ok, so based on what you are saying, Windows is not a good operating system to install a few games and your usual applications - basically regular home use - and should only be used as a locked down workstation. I think I can actually agree with you in that point! - Hans On 2012-06-04, at 7:14 PM, "Jim Lawrence" wrote: > Hi Hans: > > Ask how many games I have on my system... > > The battery was shot from the Git-Go and the power cable soon followed suit. > > > That aside please note that most Techs, who support Windows PCs, sometimes > hundreds, on a single site, do not and did not have your experience. The > systems may not be great pieces of hardware but they do the job, for the > mostly reliably and without issues...and Business just loves them. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian > Andersen > Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 1:23 PM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] So long, Norman > > > Jim, > > You are wrong. I'm looking at the machine as we speak and it has only 4 > games installed: > SimCity 4 > Diablo 2 > Civilization III > CivCity Rome > > None of these are resource demanding games, even for a machine like this. > > The rest of the software installed is all the usual stuff. CuteFTP, > OpenOffice, PDF Creator, Skype, Canon Printer Utilities, Google Picasa, all > the Microsoft applications like MSN Messenger & Silverlight, Chrome, Firefox > etc, and some paint / photo manipulation software. > > The system specs on this machine are: > > HP Pavillion DV2714CA > > Intel dual core T2330 1.6ghz, 1mb L2 cache, 533mhz FSB > 2 gigs of DDR2 ram > 160 gb sata hd > > You can read the rest here: > http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/ca/en/ho/WF06b/12139188-78299199-78299212-782 > 99212-78299212-81135007-81575996.html?dnr=1 > > It has only started falling apart in the last year. The chassis frame around > the screen is coming apart, but this is superficial. Hardware-wise it is > still fine. It could probably be fixed and it would be as good as new. > > So, the user of this system has neither been installing weird applications > like crazy, nor is this some hacked together cheap laptop from some little > known company. > > Hans > > > > > On 2012-06-04, at 11:49 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > >> Let's be honest, without mincing words; the hardware you are talking about >> was a cheap unpowered piece of junk. It was physically falling apart and > was >> suffering from a dozen pieces of game software... Nothing frys a system > like >> high resource demanding game software on flaky low-end hardware. >> >> My personal experiences have been quite different. I bought a good solid >> laptop, not cheap but definitely not over priced. That laptop is six years >> old and it has virtual every communications, web-design and software >> building product, graphic design and manipulation software, database and >> testing software running on it. It has been dragged to every office, in a >> dozen towns, that I have worked in and it has been used to setup servers, >> stations, router, switches, burn software, connect remote techs, testing >> software, storing data and manage documents. I work on this computer 8 to > 12 >> hours a day, almost every day. It is a little unpowered for the new age as >> it is Tosiba Satellite, only has a dual core, has two GB of RAM and 120 GB >> HD. >> >> It runs like it always has; solid as a rock. >> >> When it comes to Windows computers you are a really a terrible tech and I >> think it is more willful than by accident. ;-) >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian >> Andersen >> Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 9:02 AM >> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues >> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] So long, Norman >> >> >> John, >> >> These are mostly just observations of other people lately and my > experience >> supporting it at my company. I haven't been a Windows user since 2005 or > so, >> but it was also the reason I left Windows back then. >> >> I'm not sure it is specific to gaming. As a recent example, my wife's Win7 >> laptop had very few games installed (its graphics card was the Intel GMA >> sort, not powerful enough to run most games) and really only just a > handful >> of additional applications. She mostly used it for surfing, but its now >> un-usable. No blue screening, just lots of pausing, freezing and general >> slowness to the point of frustration for her, but there is nothing > obviously >> wrong with it. >> >> This is probably the 4th reinstall of Windows on that laptop (HP) in the >> last 4 or so years, but she's got a new laptop now, so I may just throw >> Linux onto this machine to extend its life. >> >> I'm not saying that every Windows machine will eventually be completely >> crippled, but I always known them to develop quirks over time and become a >> less stable system overall (not stability in terms of blue screening, but > in >> the sense that it is not behaving as expected ie. applications not > starting, >> freezing or crashing), often for no identifiable reason. >> >> If this hasn't been an issue for you, then you are obviously doing > something >> right, but it's not clear to me what is being done wrong in the cases I > have >> witnessed/experienced. >> >> Hans >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Jun 5 00:03:47 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2012 22:03:47 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] So long, Norman In-Reply-To: <9BBDD226-DE6F-4CEA-9B9D-3B4F434C170D@phulse.com> References: <0A2C8D81-8DA5-4CB9-AF97-2431482F3623@phulse.com><01ab01cd4263$442e8f70$cc8bae50$@winhaven.net><91CD390AD0CF4E3FB428EC07C7A3FAAA@creativesystemdesigns.com><654828DE-90B4-4C6F-AF76-696409FC4B22@phulse.com> <9BBDD226-DE6F-4CEA-9B9D-3B4F434C170D@phulse.com> Message-ID: There is no such thing as a piece of hardware that has not had issues. No matter what platform you are running on, it could quit at any time...your only true safety is a reliable backups...and then backups on the backups. You just can not have enough hard drive space. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian Andersen Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 8:53 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] So long, Norman Regarding the battery, batteries get recalled all the time and the power cable got chewed up from wear and tear. In addition to that, the ethernet port was not longer functional (you accidentally tore out the network cable, if you recall). But, like I said, this happens to all hardware - desktops and laptops. Its not indicative of anything. If you give me the model number of your laptop, I'm sure I can find people complaining of defects online. - Hans On 2012-06-04, at 7:14 PM, "Jim Lawrence" wrote: > Hi Hans: > > Ask how many games I have on my system... > > The battery was shot from the Git-Go and the power cable soon followed suit. > > > That aside please note that most Techs, who support Windows PCs, sometimes > hundreds, on a single site, do not and did not have your experience. The > systems may not be great pieces of hardware but they do the job, for the > mostly reliably and without issues...and Business just loves them. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian > Andersen > Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 1:23 PM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] So long, Norman > > > Jim, > > You are wrong. I'm looking at the machine as we speak and it has only 4 > games installed: > SimCity 4 > Diablo 2 > Civilization III > CivCity Rome > > None of these are resource demanding games, even for a machine like this. > > The rest of the software installed is all the usual stuff. CuteFTP, > OpenOffice, PDF Creator, Skype, Canon Printer Utilities, Google Picasa, all > the Microsoft applications like MSN Messenger & Silverlight, Chrome, Firefox > etc, and some paint / photo manipulation software. > > The system specs on this machine are: > > HP Pavillion DV2714CA > > Intel dual core T2330 1.6ghz, 1mb L2 cache, 533mhz FSB > 2 gigs of DDR2 ram > 160 gb sata hd > > You can read the rest here: > http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/ca/en/ho/WF06b/12139188-78299199-78299212-782 > 99212-78299212-81135007-81575996.html?dnr=1 > > It has only started falling apart in the last year. The chassis frame around > the screen is coming apart, but this is superficial. Hardware-wise it is > still fine. It could probably be fixed and it would be as good as new. > > So, the user of this system has neither been installing weird applications > like crazy, nor is this some hacked together cheap laptop from some little > known company. > > Hans > > > > > On 2012-06-04, at 11:49 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > >> Let's be honest, without mincing words; the hardware you are talking about >> was a cheap unpowered piece of junk. It was physically falling apart and > was >> suffering from a dozen pieces of game software... Nothing frys a system > like >> high resource demanding game software on flaky low-end hardware. >> >> My personal experiences have been quite different. I bought a good solid >> laptop, not cheap but definitely not over priced. That laptop is six years >> old and it has virtual every communications, web-design and software >> building product, graphic design and manipulation software, database and >> testing software running on it. It has been dragged to every office, in a >> dozen towns, that I have worked in and it has been used to setup servers, >> stations, router, switches, burn software, connect remote techs, testing >> software, storing data and manage documents. I work on this computer 8 to > 12 >> hours a day, almost every day. It is a little unpowered for the new age as >> it is Tosiba Satellite, only has a dual core, has two GB of RAM and 120 GB >> HD. >> >> It runs like it always has; solid as a rock. >> >> When it comes to Windows computers you are a really a terrible tech and I >> think it is more willful than by accident. ;-) >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian >> Andersen >> Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 9:02 AM >> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues >> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] So long, Norman >> >> >> John, >> >> These are mostly just observations of other people lately and my > experience >> supporting it at my company. I haven't been a Windows user since 2005 or > so, >> but it was also the reason I left Windows back then. >> >> I'm not sure it is specific to gaming. As a recent example, my wife's Win7 >> laptop had very few games installed (its graphics card was the Intel GMA >> sort, not powerful enough to run most games) and really only just a > handful >> of additional applications. She mostly used it for surfing, but its now >> un-usable. No blue screening, just lots of pausing, freezing and general >> slowness to the point of frustration for her, but there is nothing > obviously >> wrong with it. >> >> This is probably the 4th reinstall of Windows on that laptop (HP) in the >> last 4 or so years, but she's got a new laptop now, so I may just throw >> Linux onto this machine to extend its life. >> >> I'm not saying that every Windows machine will eventually be completely >> crippled, but I always known them to develop quirks over time and become a >> less stable system overall (not stability in terms of blue screening, but > in >> the sense that it is not behaving as expected ie. applications not > starting, >> freezing or crashing), often for no identifiable reason. >> >> If this hasn't been an issue for you, then you are obviously doing > something >> right, but it's not clear to me what is being done wrong in the cases I > have >> witnessed/experienced. >> >> Hans >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From hans.andersen at phulse.com Tue Jun 5 00:27:53 2012 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2012 22:27:53 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] So long, Norman In-Reply-To: <2125A974EBCD4044BD2DE2D70CC375AF@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <0A2C8D81-8DA5-4CB9-AF97-2431482F3623@phulse.com><01ab01cd4263$442e8f70$cc8bae50$@winhaven.net><91CD390AD0CF4E3FB428EC07C7A3FAAA@creativesystemdesigns.com><654828DE-90B4-4C6F-AF76-696409FC4B22@phulse.com> <5249F58A-F7CA-4108-90BE-C264C1F86018@phulse.com> <2125A974EBCD4044BD2DE2D70CC375AF@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: The hard drive is functioning well. I even ran it through SpinRite. Also, the problem is not exceptional in my experience and, if it were, a lot of us would be out of work. Amirite? Anyhow, does anyone know of a solution to my issue with Windows Server 2008 constantly duplicating DLLs for every terminal services user of that system? It has got to the point of growing the C:\WINDOWS\WINSXS\ folder to over 11 gigabytes with hundreds of thousands of small DLL files, yet no new applications have been installed. Windows just feels like duplicating the same DLLs over and over again, for whatever reason. Hans On 2012-06-04, at 9:58 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > It seems that I have installed every type of software on the computer and it > just works perfectly, everytime... I doubt whether this is unusual...this is > most likely is a normal situation. Your problem is the exception and not the > rule. I am truly sorry that you have had such bad luck with computers...must > be flaky hard drives? ;-) > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian > Andersen > Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 8:49 PM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] So long, Norman > > Ok, so based on what you are saying, Windows is not a good operating system > to install a few games and your usual applications - basically regular home > use - and should only be used as a locked down workstation. > > I think I can actually agree with you in that point! > > - Hans > > > On 2012-06-04, at 7:14 PM, "Jim Lawrence" wrote: > >> Hi Hans: >> >> Ask how many games I have on my system... >> >> The battery was shot from the Git-Go and the power cable soon followed > suit. >> >> >> That aside please note that most Techs, who support Windows PCs, sometimes >> hundreds, on a single site, do not and did not have your experience. The >> systems may not be great pieces of hardware but they do the job, for the >> mostly reliably and without issues...and Business just loves them. >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian >> Andersen >> Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 1:23 PM >> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues >> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] So long, Norman >> >> >> Jim, >> >> You are wrong. I'm looking at the machine as we speak and it has only 4 >> games installed: >> SimCity 4 >> Diablo 2 >> Civilization III >> CivCity Rome >> >> None of these are resource demanding games, even for a machine like this. >> >> The rest of the software installed is all the usual stuff. CuteFTP, >> OpenOffice, PDF Creator, Skype, Canon Printer Utilities, Google Picasa, > all >> the Microsoft applications like MSN Messenger & Silverlight, Chrome, > Firefox >> etc, and some paint / photo manipulation software. >> >> The system specs on this machine are: >> >> HP Pavillion DV2714CA >> >> Intel dual core T2330 1.6ghz, 1mb L2 cache, 533mhz FSB >> 2 gigs of DDR2 ram >> 160 gb sata hd >> >> You can read the rest here: >> > http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/ca/en/ho/WF06b/12139188-78299199-78299212-782 >> 99212-78299212-81135007-81575996.html?dnr=1 >> >> It has only started falling apart in the last year. The chassis frame > around >> the screen is coming apart, but this is superficial. Hardware-wise it is >> still fine. It could probably be fixed and it would be as good as new. >> >> So, the user of this system has neither been installing weird applications >> like crazy, nor is this some hacked together cheap laptop from some little >> known company. >> >> Hans >> >> >> >> >> On 2012-06-04, at 11:49 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> >>> Let's be honest, without mincing words; the hardware you are talking > about >>> was a cheap unpowered piece of junk. It was physically falling apart and >> was >>> suffering from a dozen pieces of game software... Nothing frys a system >> like >>> high resource demanding game software on flaky low-end hardware. >>> >>> My personal experiences have been quite different. I bought a good solid >>> laptop, not cheap but definitely not over priced. That laptop is six > years >>> old and it has virtual every communications, web-design and software >>> building product, graphic design and manipulation software, database and >>> testing software running on it. It has been dragged to every office, in a >>> dozen towns, that I have worked in and it has been used to setup servers, >>> stations, router, switches, burn software, connect remote techs, testing >>> software, storing data and manage documents. I work on this computer 8 to >> 12 >>> hours a day, almost every day. It is a little unpowered for the new age > as >>> it is Tosiba Satellite, only has a dual core, has two GB of RAM and 120 > GB >>> HD. >>> >>> It runs like it always has; solid as a rock. >>> >>> When it comes to Windows computers you are a really a terrible tech and I >>> think it is more willful than by accident. ;-) >>> >>> Jim >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Hans-Christian >>> Andersen >>> Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 9:02 AM >>> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues >>> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] So long, Norman >>> >>> >>> John, >>> >>> These are mostly just observations of other people lately and my >> experience >>> supporting it at my company. I haven't been a Windows user since 2005 or >> so, >>> but it was also the reason I left Windows back then. >>> >>> I'm not sure it is specific to gaming. As a recent example, my wife's > Win7 >>> laptop had very few games installed (its graphics card was the Intel GMA >>> sort, not powerful enough to run most games) and really only just a >> handful >>> of additional applications. She mostly used it for surfing, but its now >>> un-usable. No blue screening, just lots of pausing, freezing and general >>> slowness to the point of frustration for her, but there is nothing >> obviously >>> wrong with it. >>> >>> This is probably the 4th reinstall of Windows on that laptop (HP) in the >>> last 4 or so years, but she's got a new laptop now, so I may just throw >>> Linux onto this machine to extend its life. >>> >>> I'm not saying that every Windows machine will eventually be completely >>> crippled, but I always known them to develop quirks over time and become > a >>> less stable system overall (not stability in terms of blue screening, but >> in >>> the sense that it is not behaving as expected ie. applications not >> starting, >>> freezing or crashing), often for no identifiable reason. >>> >>> If this hasn't been an issue for you, then you are obviously doing >> something >>> right, but it's not clear to me what is being done wrong in the cases I >> have >>> witnessed/experienced. >>> >>> Hans >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> dba-Tech mailing list >>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From hans.andersen at phulse.com Tue Jun 5 01:29:09 2012 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2012 23:29:09 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] Failure to detect Flame marks 'the end of signature-based anti-virus' In-Reply-To: <009b01cd4292$5ce125d0$16a37170$@winhaven.net> References: <0A2C8D81-8DA5-4CB9-AF97-2431482F3623@phulse.com><01ab01cd4263$442e8f70$cc8bae50$@winhaven.net> <91CD390AD0CF4E3FB428EC07C7A3FAAA@creativesystemdesigns.com> <654828DE-90B4-4C6F-AF76-696409FC4B22@phulse.com> <009b01cd4292$5ce125d0$16a37170$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: http://www.scmagazineuk.com/failure-to-detect-flame-marks-the-end-of-signature-based-anti-virus/article/243505/ ?It's no secret that there is a huge industry devoted to bypassing anti-virus. Flame, we hope, will help serve as a key event that compels organisations to rethink their security spend. Turns out the UN is warning member states about Flame. Let's hope ?updating your anti-virus' isn't one of the recommendations.? Can't help but feel like this day was a long time coming? well, it actually happened already, we just didn't notice at the time. Hans From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Jun 5 01:30:24 2012 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2012 16:30:24 +1000 Subject: [dba-Tech] So long, Norman In-Reply-To: References: , <9BBDD226-DE6F-4CEA-9B9D-3B4F434C170D@phulse.com>, Message-ID: <4FCDA780.8991.1F8A32A9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> And it's only had three new handles and two new heads in all that time :-) On 5 Jun 2012 at 0:01, Arthur Fuller wrote: > Actually this doesn't happen to all hardware. I've had the same hammer for > almost 30 years now. And it's never crashed or hung up or anything. Just > keeps on banging in nails and the foreheads of occasional intruders and > unruly relatives. LOL. > > Arthur > > On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 11:53 PM, Hans-Christian Andersen < > hans.andersen at phulse.com> wrote: > > > ... > > > > But, like I said, this happens to all hardware - desktops and laptops. Its > > not indicative of anything. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Stuart McLachlan Ph: +675 340 4392 Mob: +675 7100 2028 Web: http://www.lexacorp.com.pg From tinanfields at torchlake.com Tue Jun 5 07:21:14 2012 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2012 08:21:14 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] Failure to detect Flame marks 'the end of signature-based anti-virus' In-Reply-To: References: <0A2C8D81-8DA5-4CB9-AF97-2431482F3623@phulse.com><01ab01cd4263$442e8f70$cc8bae50$@winhaven.net> <91CD390AD0CF4E3FB428EC07C7A3FAAA@creativesystemdesigns.com> <654828DE-90B4-4C6F-AF76-696409FC4B22@phulse.com> <009b01cd4292$5ce125d0$16a37170$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <4FCDF9BA.6020607@torchlake.com> Hans-Christian, Thanks for posting this article. Yes, this is pretty scary. One of the comments was that no system could be trusted after it has had a virus infection, so a complete reinstall of the OS is necessary. Another said that may not be enough, since it could even hide in some BIOS. This leads me to a bunch of worry. While I'm considered a tech whiz around here, that's mainly because of the ambient level of tech-savviness. I'm a "middling" good tech. I'm responsible for the machines in my home office-classroom, and my extended household. I've cleaned several of them - a couple more than once - a few times finally resorting to snagging all the data my family member really wanted to keep, then flattening the hard-drive and reinstalling everything. If that's not enough, WOW! I don't know very many people who can afford to simply discard the current computer and buy a new one. I'm wondering why FLAME wasn't detected sooner, and how will the AV industry redeem itself (if that's possible). One comment suggested that for security's sake we should keep our data off the computer! Hmm - after all the work we've done to get data computerized for easy access, there must be another way to protect it. I'm really not ready to go back to hand-scanning reams of paper data. T Tina Norris Fields tinanfields at torchlake.com 231-322-2787 On 6/5/2012 2:29 AM, Hans-Christian Andersen wrote: > http://www.scmagazineuk.com/failure-to-detect-flame-marks-the-end-of-signature-based-anti-virus/article/243505/ > > ?It's no secret that there is a huge industry devoted to bypassing anti-virus. Flame, we hope, will help serve as a key event that compels organisations to rethink their security spend. Turns out the UN is warning member states about Flame. Let's hope ?updating your anti-virus' isn't one of the recommendations.? > > Can't help but feel like this day was a long time coming? well, it actually happened already, we just didn't notice at the time. > > Hans > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Wed Jun 6 06:30:17 2012 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2012 07:30:17 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] Well, in this case, WetWare Message-ID: >From slashdot... *"Genius and insanity may actually go together, according to scientists who found that mental illnesses like schizophrenia and bipolar disorder are often found in highly creative and intelligent people. The link is being investigated by a group of scientists who had all suffered some form of mental disorder. Bipolar sufferer Kay Redfield Jamison, a clinical psychologist and professor at Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine, said that findings of some 20 or 30 scientific studies confirms the idea of the 'tortured genius' or 'mad scientist.'"* -- Arthur and his evil twin; both tortured genii, that's the spelling and hence the Jah term, I and I. Cell: 647.710.1314 Prediction is difficult, especially of the futures market. -- Niels Bohr + Arthur Fuller From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Jun 6 09:06:02 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2012 07:06:02 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] Well, in this case, WetWare In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8948FE1D4C4240DD90595CFF83DAE7CB@creativesystemdesigns.com> Ha ha ha... That has been a gimme for years. Sir Isaac Newton had his furniture nailed to the floor so they wouldn't float up or be stolen and Albert Einstein had on occasions showed up to class wearing no shoes, only his socks... Their behaviors were odd to say the least. Where would we be today if our past was not filled with tortured geniuses and their brilliant creations and insights? If we ever solved their mental conditions would our societies also halt in its progress? Do not these people create our civilisation while the rest of us are here to do the upkeep and basic maintanance? We have always needed people who can jump from one mountain top to the next while we, the rest of us, have to walk the whole distance. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2012 4:30 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: [dba-Tech] Well, in this case, WetWare >From slashdot... *"Genius and insanity may actually go together, according to scientists who found that mental illnesses like schizophrenia and bipolar disorder are often found in highly creative and intelligent people. The link is being investigated by a group of scientists who had all suffered some form of mental disorder. Bipolar sufferer Kay Redfield Jamison, a clinical psychologist and professor at Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine, said that findings of some 20 or 30 scientific studies confirms the idea of the 'tortured genius' or 'mad scientist.'"* -- Arthur and his evil twin; both tortured genii, that's the spelling and hence the Jah term, I and I. Cell: 647.710.1314 Prediction is difficult, especially of the futures market. -- Niels Bohr + Arthur Fuller _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Jun 6 10:31:14 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2012 08:31:14 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] Free Tools In-Reply-To: <8948FE1D4C4240DD90595CFF83DAE7CB@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <8948FE1D4C4240DD90595CFF83DAE7CB@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: It has just been announced that Quest Software (you know the company as the creators of TOAD; the indispencible database editing tool) has offered a free network monitoring and management application, called Foglight. http://tinyurl.com/6wcqpqf Jim From fuller.artful at gmail.com Thu Jun 7 07:06:06 2012 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 08:06:06 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] Dull and Boring to become twin cities Message-ID: This just in, no shyte. The Scottish village of Dull is going to twin with the Oregon town of Boring. Don't believe me? http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidthier/2012/04/26/scottish-village-of-dull-moves-to-partner-with-boring-oregon/ -- Arthur Cell: 647.710.1314 Prediction is difficult, especially of the future. -- Niels Bohr From john at winhaven.net Thu Jun 7 09:32:58 2012 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 09:32:58 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] So long, Norman In-Reply-To: <4FCDA780.8991.1F8A32A9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <9BBDD226-DE6F-4CEA-9B9D-3B4F434C170D@phulse.com>, <4FCDA780.8991.1F8A32A9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <013c01cd44ba$70084b50$5018e1f0$@winhaven.net> http://tinyurl.com/6uqx78y Android Will Peak in 2012, Windows Phone Will Pass iOS by 2016: IDC From tinanfields at torchlake.com Thu Jun 7 11:36:45 2012 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2012 12:36:45 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] Dull and Boring to become twin cities In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4FD0D89D.20100@torchlake.com> Oh my! T Tina Norris Fields tinanfields at torchlake.com 231-322-2787 On 6/7/2012 8:06 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > This just in, no shyte. The Scottish village of Dull is going to twin with > the Oregon town of Boring. Don't believe me? > > http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidthier/2012/04/26/scottish-village-of-dull-moves-to-partner-with-boring-oregon/ > > From stephen at bondsoftware.co.nz Thu Jun 7 14:33:05 2012 From: stephen at bondsoftware.co.nz (Stephen Bond) Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2012 07:33:05 +1200 Subject: [dba-Tech] Dull and Boring to become twin cities In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: We have good friends from college days in Oregon who live in Boring. They tell me Dull and Boring are now "twinned" -- the Boring Community group approved the relationship at their meeting Tuesday night. Our friends are visiting Dull in the Fall. In the '60s we all went to college in the wettest part of Oregon, just north of a town called Drain. There must be a town somewhere looking for a mate? Hole-in-the-Floor? New Zealand place-names are so colourless (boring?). Stephen Bond -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tina Norris Fields Sent: Friday, 8 June 2012 4:45 a.m. To: Stephen Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Dull and Boring to become twin cities Oh my! T Tina Norris Fields tinanfields at torchlake.com 231-322-2787 On 6/7/2012 8:06 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > This just in, no shyte. The Scottish village of Dull is going to twin with > the Oregon town of Boring. Don't believe me? > > http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidthier/2012/04/26/scottish-village-of-du ll-moves-to-partner-with-boring-oregon/ > > _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Thu Jun 7 15:00:15 2012 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 21:00:15 +0100 Subject: [dba-Tech] Dull and Boring to become twin cities In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Colourless? What, like Whanganui, Pahiatua, Tauranga etc? How can you say that Stephen? Andy -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Bond Sent: 07 June 2012 20:33 To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Dull and Boring to become twin cities We have good friends from college days in Oregon who live in Boring. They tell me Dull and Boring are now "twinned" -- the Boring Community group approved the relationship at their meeting Tuesday night. Our friends are visiting Dull in the Fall. In the '60s we all went to college in the wettest part of Oregon, just north of a town called Drain. There must be a town somewhere looking for a mate? Hole-in-the-Floor? New Zealand place-names are so colourless (boring?). Stephen Bond -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tina Norris Fields Sent: Friday, 8 June 2012 4:45 a.m. To: Stephen Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Dull and Boring to become twin cities Oh my! T Tina Norris Fields tinanfields at torchlake.com 231-322-2787 On 6/7/2012 8:06 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > This just in, no shyte. The Scottish village of Dull is going to twin with > the Oregon town of Boring. Don't believe me? > > http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidthier/2012/04/26/scottish-village-of-du ll-moves-to-partner-with-boring-oregon/ > > _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From hans.andersen at phulse.com Thu Jun 7 15:11:18 2012 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 13:11:18 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] So long, Norman In-Reply-To: <013c01cd44ba$70084b50$5018e1f0$@winhaven.net> References: <9BBDD226-DE6F-4CEA-9B9D-3B4F434C170D@phulse.com> <4FCDA780.8991.1F8A32A9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <013c01cd44ba$70084b50$5018e1f0$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <5395A21F-9053-4247-AA10-0367B9ADF530@phulse.com> Similar claims have been made in the past and not turned out the way they expected. I think reports like these are flawed because they only really highlight potential markets with current conditions and not anticipating what the competitors will do in the meantime. I can't truly see Microsoft getting a foot in due to the developing economies, because there is a lot of local companies competing with that and thy have full access to android for free. It will be a struggle for MS, I imagine. I predict MS will have around 10% at the very best by that time. - Hans Sent from my iPhone On 2012-06-07, at 7:32 AM, "John Bartow" wrote: > http://tinyurl.com/6uqx78y > > Android Will Peak in 2012, Windows Phone Will Pass iOS by 2016: IDC > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From michael at mattysconsulting.com Thu Jun 7 15:16:15 2012 From: michael at mattysconsulting.com (Michael Mattys) Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 16:16:15 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] Dull and Boring to become twin cities In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01d801cd44ea$64cd3ae0$2e67b0a0$@mattysconsulting.com> Drain should team up with Bladder Lake, WI :) Michael R Mattys Mattys Consulting, LLC www.mattysconsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Bond Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2012 3:33 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Dull and Boring to become twin cities We have good friends from college days in Oregon who live in Boring. They tell me Dull and Boring are now "twinned" -- the Boring Community group approved the relationship at their meeting Tuesday night. Our friends are visiting Dull in the Fall. In the '60s we all went to college in the wettest part of Oregon, just north of a town called Drain. There must be a town somewhere looking for a mate? Hole-in-the-Floor? New Zealand place-names are so colourless (boring?). Stephen Bond -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tina Norris Fields Sent: Friday, 8 June 2012 4:45 a.m. To: Stephen Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Dull and Boring to become twin cities Oh my! T Tina Norris Fields tinanfields at torchlake.com 231-322-2787 On 6/7/2012 8:06 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > This just in, no shyte. The Scottish village of Dull is going to twin with > the Oregon town of Boring. Don't believe me? > > http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidthier/2012/04/26/scottish-village-of-du ll-moves-to-partner-with-boring-oregon/ > > _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Jun 7 17:03:20 2012 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2012 08:03:20 +1000 Subject: [dba-Tech] Dull and Boring to become twin cities In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: <4FD12528.30080.2D2D0EFB@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> You mean places like Waiakotanga, Waikikamukau and all of the Whaka.....places? :-) (For the non-kiwis: Say the first two out loud phonetically and note that "WH" is pronounced very much like an "F" in English) -- Stuart On 7 Jun 2012 at 21:00, Andy Lacey wrote: > Colourless? What, like Whanganui, Pahiatua, Tauranga etc? How can you say > that Stephen? > > Andy > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Bond > Sent: 07 June 2012 20:33 > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Dull and Boring to become twin cities > > > We have good friends from college days in Oregon who live in Boring. > They tell me Dull and Boring are now "twinned" -- the Boring Community > group approved the relationship at their meeting Tuesday night. Our > friends are visiting Dull in the Fall. > > In the '60s we all went to college in the wettest part of Oregon, just > north of a town called Drain. There must be a town somewhere looking > for a mate? Hole-in-the-Floor? > > New Zealand place-names are so colourless (boring?). > > Stephen Bond > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tina Norris > Fields > Sent: Friday, 8 June 2012 4:45 a.m. > To: Stephen > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Dull and Boring to become twin cities > > Oh my! > T > > Tina Norris Fields > tinanfields at torchlake.com > 231-322-2787 > > > On 6/7/2012 8:06 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > > This just in, no shyte. The Scottish village of Dull is going to twin > with > > the Oregon town of Boring. Don't believe me? > > > > > http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidthier/2012/04/26/scottish-village-of-du > ll-moves-to-partner-with-boring-oregon/ > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Stuart McLachlan Ph: +675 340 4392 Mob: +675 7100 2028 Web: http://www.lexacorp.com.pg From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Jun 7 17:11:34 2012 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2012 08:11:34 +1000 Subject: [dba-Tech] So long, Norman In-Reply-To: <013c01cd44ba$70084b50$5018e1f0$@winhaven.net> References: , <4FCDA780.8991.1F8A32A9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <013c01cd44ba$70084b50$5018e1f0$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <4FD12716.14284.2D349B13@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Hmm, a precise prediction of 19.2% v 19% in four years time on rapidly evolving technology and OSs? I doubt that it is any more accurate than my own REA* of a Microsoft market share below 10%. *REA = Rectally Extracted Approximation - aka a number I just pulled out of my *rse. -- Stuart On 7 Jun 2012 at 9:32, John Bartow wrote: > http://tinyurl.com/6uqx78y > > Android Will Peak in 2012, Windows Phone Will Pass iOS by 2016: IDC > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Stuart McLachlan Ph: +675 340 4392 Mob: +675 7100 2028 Web: http://www.lexacorp.com.pg From jon at tydda.plus.com Thu Jun 7 17:39:34 2012 From: jon at tydda.plus.com (Jon Tydda) Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 23:39:34 +0100 Subject: [dba-Tech] Dull and Boring to become twin cities In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <00ed01cd44fe$6a838ac0$3f8aa040$@tydda.plus.com> I was told that Wh is now pronounced as F, as in Fungarei, but not all the time... no-one could tell me where to find Fungarei Farf! :-) Jon -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey Sent: 07 June 2012 21:00 To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Dull and Boring to become twin cities Colourless? What, like Whanganui, Pahiatua, Tauranga etc? How can you say that Stephen? Andy -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Bond Sent: 07 June 2012 20:33 To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Dull and Boring to become twin cities We have good friends from college days in Oregon who live in Boring. They tell me Dull and Boring are now "twinned" -- the Boring Community group approved the relationship at their meeting Tuesday night. Our friends are visiting Dull in the Fall. In the '60s we all went to college in the wettest part of Oregon, just north of a town called Drain. There must be a town somewhere looking for a mate? Hole-in-the-Floor? New Zealand place-names are so colourless (boring?). Stephen Bond -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tina Norris Fields Sent: Friday, 8 June 2012 4:45 a.m. To: Stephen Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Dull and Boring to become twin cities Oh my! T Tina Norris Fields tinanfields at torchlake.com 231-322-2787 On 6/7/2012 8:06 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > This just in, no shyte. The Scottish village of Dull is going to twin with > the Oregon town of Boring. Don't believe me? > > http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidthier/2012/04/26/scottish-village-of-du ll-moves-to-partner-with-boring-oregon/ > > _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Thu Jun 7 17:53:13 2012 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 18:53:13 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] Dull and Boring to become twin cities In-Reply-To: <01d801cd44ea$64cd3ae0$2e67b0a0$@mattysconsulting.com> References: <01d801cd44ea$64cd3ae0$2e67b0a0$@mattysconsulting.com> Message-ID: Apparently I have opened a can of hitherto non-violent worms. Please forgive me. It was close to Friday, and in several continents was, but at this point I think it best to shut my piehole and leave it to the rest of yous. That one was excellent, Michael! Couldn't have thunk it up meself.My name is Shania Twain, and my boyf is Duane, our fave movie is Shane, but our son is weird and listens to Colrane, and given the Euro's in the dtich, I think I'll move to Spain, oh No, must be the Season of the Witch. (Damn! I've spent several minutes trying to rhyme Donovan, and come up empty-handed.) It's not even Friday, so I am entirely without excuses. But wait! In Australia it's already Friday! Whew! And speaking of which entirely strange continent/nation, what's with that song about the men from down under? I actually know what those lyrics are about, and you got some sick stuff going on there. All about Plunder! I know what that means! On behalf of all Canadians and also males and let me think, I must belong to some other minority -- oh I have it (them), I am also one-quarter Dene First Nations, and another quarter Quebecois, and the other half British, so on behalf of all these ancestors, I apologize for any and every thing that we have done, may have considered doing but then relented, and may consider doing at some future point, that may have caused (or shall cause in the future) offence to you and yours. Please feel free to murder me at your convenience. It shan't go further, since I wisely chose to have no children. So the buck stops here, as it were. A single bullet shall prevent this virus from propagating. That awful silence that follow a gunshot is golden. Enough of this mindless Friday OT shyte. Time to go listen once again to the lady of my life, Adele! Nuff said. And as for you, Michael, you are one sick twist. LOL. On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 4:16 PM, Michael Mattys wrote: > Drain should team up with Bladder Lake, WI :) > > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Thu Jun 7 17:54:57 2012 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 18:54:57 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] So long, Norman In-Reply-To: <4FD12716.14284.2D349B13@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4FCDA780.8991.1F8A32A9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <013c01cd44ba$70084b50$5018e1f0$@winhaven.net> <4FD12716.14284.2D349B13@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Ok. You're now a stalk market guru. I'll buy. On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 6:11 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > Hmm, a precise prediction of 19.2% v 19% in four years time on rapidly > evolving technology > and OSs? > > I doubt that it is any more accurate than my own REA* of a Microsoft > market share below > 10%. > > From john at winhaven.net Thu Jun 7 20:01:28 2012 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 20:01:28 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] So long, Norman In-Reply-To: <4FD12716.14284.2D349B13@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <4FCDA780.8991.1F8A32A9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <013c01cd44ba$70084b50$5018e1f0$@winhaven.net> <4FD12716.14284.2D349B13@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <026901cd4512$3ca2ea10$b5e8be30$@winhaven.net> Lol! I knew someone would make me laugh over this ;-) -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2012 5:12 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] So long, Norman Hmm, a precise prediction of 19.2% v 19% in four years time on rapidly evolving technology and OSs? I doubt that it is any more accurate than my own REA* of a Microsoft market share below 10%. *REA = Rectally Extracted Approximation - aka a number I just pulled out of my *rse. -- Stuart On 7 Jun 2012 at 9:32, John Bartow wrote: > http://tinyurl.com/6uqx78y > > Android Will Peak in 2012, Windows Phone Will Pass iOS by 2016: IDC > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Stuart McLachlan Ph: +675 340 4392 Mob: +675 7100 2028 Web: http://www.lexacorp.com.pg _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Jun 7 20:15:42 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 18:15:42 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] Dull and Boring to become twin cities In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <68DF6E564C9140F48A1EDD1F213BD2DB@creativesystemdesigns.com> Or then there are the municipalities and communities near us: Sooke, Saanich, Esquimalt and Nanaimo. Tourist may be able to pronounce them but not correctly and to amusement of the locals. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2012 1:00 PM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Dull and Boring to become twin cities Colourless? What, like Whanganui, Pahiatua, Tauranga etc? How can you say that Stephen? Andy -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Bond Sent: 07 June 2012 20:33 To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Dull and Boring to become twin cities We have good friends from college days in Oregon who live in Boring. They tell me Dull and Boring are now "twinned" -- the Boring Community group approved the relationship at their meeting Tuesday night. Our friends are visiting Dull in the Fall. In the '60s we all went to college in the wettest part of Oregon, just north of a town called Drain. There must be a town somewhere looking for a mate? Hole-in-the-Floor? New Zealand place-names are so colourless (boring?). Stephen Bond -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tina Norris Fields Sent: Friday, 8 June 2012 4:45 a.m. To: Stephen Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Dull and Boring to become twin cities Oh my! T Tina Norris Fields tinanfields at torchlake.com 231-322-2787 On 6/7/2012 8:06 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > This just in, no shyte. The Scottish village of Dull is going to twin with > the Oregon town of Boring. Don't believe me? > > http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidthier/2012/04/26/scottish-village-of-du ll-moves-to-partner-with-boring-oregon/ > > _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Jun 7 20:35:17 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 18:35:17 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] Dull and Boring to become twin cities In-Reply-To: <00ed01cd44fe$6a838ac0$3f8aa040$@tydda.plus.com> References: <00ed01cd44fe$6a838ac0$3f8aa040$@tydda.plus.com> Message-ID: <4A2958078962450CA712AAD2F16290DA@creativesystemdesigns.com> Give us a list of your favourite Welsh villages. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jon Tydda Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2012 3:40 PM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Dull and Boring to become twin cities I was told that Wh is now pronounced as F, as in Fungarei, but not all the time... no-one could tell me where to find Fungarei Farf! :-) Jon -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey Sent: 07 June 2012 21:00 To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Dull and Boring to become twin cities Colourless? What, like Whanganui, Pahiatua, Tauranga etc? How can you say that Stephen? Andy -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Bond Sent: 07 June 2012 20:33 To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Dull and Boring to become twin cities We have good friends from college days in Oregon who live in Boring. They tell me Dull and Boring are now "twinned" -- the Boring Community group approved the relationship at their meeting Tuesday night. Our friends are visiting Dull in the Fall. In the '60s we all went to college in the wettest part of Oregon, just north of a town called Drain. There must be a town somewhere looking for a mate? Hole-in-the-Floor? New Zealand place-names are so colourless (boring?). Stephen Bond -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tina Norris Fields Sent: Friday, 8 June 2012 4:45 a.m. To: Stephen Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Dull and Boring to become twin cities Oh my! T Tina Norris Fields tinanfields at torchlake.com 231-322-2787 On 6/7/2012 8:06 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > This just in, no shyte. The Scottish village of Dull is going to twin with > the Oregon town of Boring. Don't believe me? > > http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidthier/2012/04/26/scottish-village-of-du ll-moves-to-partner-with-boring-oregon/ > > _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Thu Jun 7 20:41:54 2012 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 21:41:54 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] Dull and Boring to become twin cities In-Reply-To: <68DF6E564C9140F48A1EDD1F213BD2DB@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <68DF6E564C9140F48A1EDD1F213BD2DB@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: I used to live in Esquimalt! You fargin' icehole! Plus I pinged the bell in Victoria, and also lived on the beautiful beach called Wreck. Plus ate some exquisite fish in Tofino. Those were some of the finest moments of my life. I even know how to pronounce Ucuelet. (Pretty funny Google-right-click on that word. I'll leave it to you to investigate, but the first hit was "clueless" LOL. Victoria, Uclulet and Tofino remain some of my fave places on this planet. But this summer my sister and I are going to Nahanni national park, possibly the most beautiful place in the world. We'll have to fly in to the nearest location, and then canoe for a couple of days, but this is my last wish. I have visited Nahanni virtually several times, but with my last dying gasps I want to do it for real. Since this is a group populated by citizens of many countries (and thank you all for that!), you might not know what Nahanni is. That's OK, I'm not busting you for not knowing the most beautiful place on the planet. Au contraire! I am inviting you to come see this. It's expensive to get there, so instead you can visit virtually by clicking this and then wandering as your spirit moves you. You shall not be disappointed. Here is a link to a bunch of pages about the most beautiful place in the world. https://www.google.ca/search?rlz=1C1_____enCA480CA480&aq=f&sugexp=chrome,mod=4&ix=h9&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=nahanni I hope that link works. If not, just Google Nahanni, and be prepared for WOW. It's not cheap to get there. You have to hire a plane, and then canoe for about a day. Which is a good thing, IMO. It keeps the riff-raff out. You have to express a commitment to see such a beautiful place. And then once you have done so, you will hold its memory very close to your chest, and whisper in your most cherished and secret moments, "I was there!" A. A. On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 9:15 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Or then there are the municipalities and communities near us: Sooke, > Saanich, Esquimalt and Nanaimo. > > Tourist may be able to pronounce them but not correctly and to amusement of > the locals. > > Jim > > From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Jun 7 22:08:21 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 20:08:21 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] Dull and Boring to become twin cities In-Reply-To: References: <68DF6E564C9140F48A1EDD1F213BD2DB@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4F5B8BFE4CC1469183A50B3F510CD539@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Arthur: There is also a bunch of images on Google: http://tinyurl.com/cfrrqu5 One day we will go to Great Slave or/and Great Bear lake and go fishing. I hear lakes have trout as big as Salmon. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2012 6:42 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Dull and Boring to become twin cities I used to live in Esquimalt! You fargin' icehole! Plus I pinged the bell in Victoria, and also lived on the beautiful beach called Wreck. Plus ate some exquisite fish in Tofino. Those were some of the finest moments of my life. I even know how to pronounce Ucuelet. (Pretty funny Google-right-click on that word. I'll leave it to you to investigate, but the first hit was "clueless" LOL. Victoria, Uclulet and Tofino remain some of my fave places on this planet. But this summer my sister and I are going to Nahanni national park, possibly the most beautiful place in the world. We'll have to fly in to the nearest location, and then canoe for a couple of days, but this is my last wish. I have visited Nahanni virtually several times, but with my last dying gasps I want to do it for real. Since this is a group populated by citizens of many countries (and thank you all for that!), you might not know what Nahanni is. That's OK, I'm not busting you for not knowing the most beautiful place on the planet. Au contraire! I am inviting you to come see this. It's expensive to get there, so instead you can visit virtually by clicking this and then wandering as your spirit moves you. You shall not be disappointed. Here is a link to a bunch of pages about the most beautiful place in the world. https://www.google.ca/search?rlz=1C1_____enCA480CA480&aq=f&sugexp=chrome,mod =4&ix=h9&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=nahanni I hope that link works. If not, just Google Nahanni, and be prepared for WOW. It's not cheap to get there. You have to hire a plane, and then canoe for about a day. Which is a good thing, IMO. It keeps the riff-raff out. You have to express a commitment to see such a beautiful place. And then once you have done so, you will hold its memory very close to your chest, and whisper in your most cherished and secret moments, "I was there!" A. A. On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 9:15 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Or then there are the municipalities and communities near us: Sooke, > Saanich, Esquimalt and Nanaimo. > > Tourist may be able to pronounce them but not correctly and to amusement of > the locals. > > Jim > > _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Fri Jun 8 02:31:10 2012 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2012 03:31:10 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] Dull and Boring to become twin cities In-Reply-To: <4F5B8BFE4CC1469183A50B3F510CD539@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <68DF6E564C9140F48A1EDD1F213BD2DB@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4F5B8BFE4CC1469183A50B3F510CD539@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Thanks for the images, Jim. I seriously do want to go there, perhaps this year, and best I do it soon, because I'm running out of years. A. From stephen at bondsoftware.co.nz Fri Jun 8 02:38:20 2012 From: stephen at bondsoftware.co.nz (Stephen Bond) Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2012 19:38:20 +1200 Subject: [dba-Tech] Dull and Boring to become twin cities In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Good one Michael, I'll let them know ;-) Stephen Bond -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael Mattys Sent: Friday, 8 June 2012 8:31 a.m. To: Stephen Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Dull and Boring to become twin cities Drain should team up with Bladder Lake, WI :) Michael R Mattys Mattys Consulting, LLC www.mattysconsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Bond Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2012 3:33 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Dull and Boring to become twin cities We have good friends from college days in Oregon who live in Boring. They tell me Dull and Boring are now "twinned" -- the Boring Community group approved the relationship at their meeting Tuesday night. Our friends are visiting Dull in the Fall. In the '60s we all went to college in the wettest part of Oregon, just north of a town called Drain. There must be a town somewhere looking for a mate? Hole-in-the-Floor? New Zealand place-names are so colourless (boring?). Stephen Bond -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tina Norris Fields Sent: Friday, 8 June 2012 4:45 a.m. To: Stephen Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Dull and Boring to become twin cities Oh my! T Tina Norris Fields tinanfields at torchlake.com 231-322-2787 On 6/7/2012 8:06 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > This just in, no shyte. The Scottish village of Dull is going to twin with > the Oregon town of Boring. Don't believe me? > > http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidthier/2012/04/26/scottish-village-of-du ll-moves-to-partner-with-boring-oregon/ > > _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stephen at bondsoftware.co.nz Fri Jun 8 02:42:55 2012 From: stephen at bondsoftware.co.nz (Stephen Bond) Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2012 19:42:55 +1200 Subject: [dba-Tech] Dull and Boring to become twin cities In-Reply-To: <2D36BE6B34364CF8A572260E8B699CA8@BondSoftware.local> References: <2D36BE6B34364CF8A572260E8B699CA8@BondSoftware.local> Message-ID: Interesting, maybe. Unique, even. Evocative, definitely not. Stephen -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey Sent: Friday, 8 June 2012 8:01 a.m. To: Stephen Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Dull and Boring to become twin cities Colourless? What, like Whanganui, Pahiatua, Tauranga etc? How can you say that Stephen? Andy -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Bond Sent: 07 June 2012 20:33 To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Dull and Boring to become twin cities We have good friends from college days in Oregon who live in Boring. They tell me Dull and Boring are now "twinned" -- the Boring Community group approved the relationship at their meeting Tuesday night. Our friends are visiting Dull in the Fall. In the '60s we all went to college in the wettest part of Oregon, just north of a town called Drain. There must be a town somewhere looking for a mate? Hole-in-the-Floor? New Zealand place-names are so colourless (boring?). Stephen Bond -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tina Norris Fields Sent: Friday, 8 June 2012 4:45 a.m. To: Stephen Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Dull and Boring to become twin cities Oh my! T Tina Norris Fields tinanfields at torchlake.com 231-322-2787 On 6/7/2012 8:06 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > This just in, no shyte. The Scottish village of Dull is going to twin with > the Oregon town of Boring. Don't believe me? > > http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidthier/2012/04/26/scottish-village-of-du ll-moves-to-partner-with-boring-oregon/ > > _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stephen at bondsoftware.co.nz Fri Jun 8 02:44:22 2012 From: stephen at bondsoftware.co.nz (Stephen Bond) Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2012 19:44:22 +1200 Subject: [dba-Tech] Dull and Boring to become twin cities In-Reply-To: <4A16BCA6426D4262A793E7EA92A80D40@BondSoftware.local> References: <4A16BCA6426D4262A793E7EA92A80D40@BondSoftware.local> Message-ID: You forgot Waihakapunga. Otherwise, same answer I gave Andy Stephen -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Friday, 8 June 2012 10:15 a.m. To: Stephen Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Dull and Boring to become twin cities You mean places like Waiakotanga, Waikikamukau and all of the Whaka.....places? :-) (For the non-kiwis: Say the first two out loud phonetically and note that "WH" is pronounced very much like an "F" in English) -- Stuart On 7 Jun 2012 at 21:00, Andy Lacey wrote: > Colourless? What, like Whanganui, Pahiatua, Tauranga etc? How can you say > that Stephen? > > Andy > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Bond > Sent: 07 June 2012 20:33 > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Dull and Boring to become twin cities > > > We have good friends from college days in Oregon who live in Boring. > They tell me Dull and Boring are now "twinned" -- the Boring Community > group approved the relationship at their meeting Tuesday night. Our > friends are visiting Dull in the Fall. > > In the '60s we all went to college in the wettest part of Oregon, just > north of a town called Drain. There must be a town somewhere looking > for a mate? Hole-in-the-Floor? > > New Zealand place-names are so colourless (boring?). > > Stephen Bond > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tina Norris > Fields > Sent: Friday, 8 June 2012 4:45 a.m. > To: Stephen > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Dull and Boring to become twin cities > > Oh my! > T > > Tina Norris Fields > tinanfields at torchlake.com > 231-322-2787 > > > On 6/7/2012 8:06 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > > This just in, no shyte. The Scottish village of Dull is going to twin > with > > the Oregon town of Boring. Don't believe me? > > > > > http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidthier/2012/04/26/scottish-village-of-du > ll-moves-to-partner-with-boring-oregon/ > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Stuart McLachlan Ph: +675 340 4392 Mob: +675 7100 2028 Web: http://www.lexacorp.com.pg _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stephen at bondsoftware.co.nz Fri Jun 8 02:45:52 2012 From: stephen at bondsoftware.co.nz (Stephen Bond) Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2012 19:45:52 +1200 Subject: [dba-Tech] Dull and Boring to become twin cities In-Reply-To: <6AB0FD3229A345769A414B13F7749F76@BondSoftware.local> References: <01d801cd44ea$64cd3ae0$2e67b0a0$@mattysconsulting.com> <6AB0FD3229A345769A414B13F7749F76@BondSoftware.local> Message-ID: Arthur, sit back and enjoy the sparks. Stephen -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, 8 June 2012 11:01 a.m. To: Stephen Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Dull and Boring to become twin cities Apparently I have opened a can of hitherto non-violent worms. Please forgive me. It was close to Friday, and in several continents was, but at this point I think it best to shut my piehole and leave it to the rest of yous. That one was excellent, Michael! Couldn't have thunk it up meself.My name is Shania Twain, and my boyf is Duane, our fave movie is Shane, but our son is weird and listens to Colrane, and given the Euro's in the dtich, I think I'll move to Spain, oh No, must be the Season of the Witch. (Damn! I've spent several minutes trying to rhyme Donovan, and come up empty-handed.) It's not even Friday, so I am entirely without excuses. But wait! In Australia it's already Friday! Whew! And speaking of which entirely strange continent/nation, what's with that song about the men from down under? I actually know what those lyrics are about, and you got some sick stuff going on there. All about Plunder! I know what that means! On behalf of all Canadians and also males and let me think, I must belong to some other minority -- oh I have it (them), I am also one-quarter Dene First Nations, and another quarter Quebecois, and the other half British, so on behalf of all these ancestors, I apologize for any and every thing that we have done, may have considered doing but then relented, and may consider doing at some future point, that may have caused (or shall cause in the future) offence to you and yours. Please feel free to murder me at your convenience. It shan't go further, since I wisely chose to have no children. So the buck stops here, as it were. A single bullet shall prevent this virus from propagating. That awful silence that follow a gunshot is golden. Enough of this mindless Friday OT shyte. Time to go listen once again to the lady of my life, Adele! Nuff said. And as for you, Michael, you are one sick twist. LOL. On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 4:16 PM, Michael Mattys wrote: > Drain should team up with Bladder Lake, WI :) > > _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jon.tydda at lonza.com Fri Jun 8 02:51:11 2012 From: jon.tydda at lonza.com (Tydda Jon - Slough) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2012 09:51:11 +0200 Subject: [dba-Tech] Dull and Boring to become twin cities In-Reply-To: <4A2958078962450CA712AAD2F16290DA@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <00ed01cd44fe$6a838ac0$3f8aa040$@tydda.plus.com> <4A2958078962450CA712AAD2F16290DA@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Well, there's Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwyll-llantysiliogogogoch for starters... Jon -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: 08 June 2012 02:35 To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Dull and Boring to become twin cities Give us a list of your favourite Welsh villages. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jon Tydda Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2012 3:40 PM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Dull and Boring to become twin cities I was told that Wh is now pronounced as F, as in Fungarei, but not all the time... no-one could tell me where to find Fungarei Farf! :-) Jon -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey Sent: 07 June 2012 21:00 To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Dull and Boring to become twin cities Colourless? What, like Whanganui, Pahiatua, Tauranga etc? How can you say that Stephen? Andy -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Bond Sent: 07 June 2012 20:33 To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Dull and Boring to become twin cities We have good friends from college days in Oregon who live in Boring. They tell me Dull and Boring are now "twinned" -- the Boring Community group approved the relationship at their meeting Tuesday night. Our friends are visiting Dull in the Fall. In the '60s we all went to college in the wettest part of Oregon, just north of a town called Drain. There must be a town somewhere looking for a mate? Hole-in-the-Floor? New Zealand place-names are so colourless (boring?). Stephen Bond -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tina Norris Fields Sent: Friday, 8 June 2012 4:45 a.m. To: Stephen Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Dull and Boring to become twin cities Oh my! T Tina Norris Fields tinanfields at torchlake.com 231-322-2787 On 6/7/2012 8:06 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > This just in, no shyte. The Scottish village of Dull is going to twin with > the Oregon town of Boring. Don't believe me? > > http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidthier/2012/04/26/scottish-village-of-du ll-moves-to-partner-with-boring-oregon/ > > _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com This communication and its attachments, if any, may contain confidential and privileged information the use of which by other persons or entities than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you receive this transmission in error, please contact the sender immediately and delete the material from your system. From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Jun 8 03:47:52 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2012 01:47:52 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] Dull and Boring to become twin cities In-Reply-To: References: <00ed01cd44fe$6a838ac0$3f8aa040$@tydda.plus.com><4A2958078962450CA712AAD2F16290DA@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <5AE29C263964452FB4082DD04FA405DC@creativesystemdesigns.com> I think that beats them all. My Gallic just is not that good. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tydda Jon - Slough Sent: Friday, June 08, 2012 12:51 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Dull and Boring to become twin cities Well, there's Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwyll-llantysiliogogogoch for starters... Jon -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: 08 June 2012 02:35 To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Dull and Boring to become twin cities Give us a list of your favourite Welsh villages. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jon Tydda Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2012 3:40 PM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Dull and Boring to become twin cities I was told that Wh is now pronounced as F, as in Fungarei, but not all the time... no-one could tell me where to find Fungarei Farf! :-) Jon -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey Sent: 07 June 2012 21:00 To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Dull and Boring to become twin cities Colourless? What, like Whanganui, Pahiatua, Tauranga etc? How can you say that Stephen? Andy -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Bond Sent: 07 June 2012 20:33 To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Dull and Boring to become twin cities We have good friends from college days in Oregon who live in Boring. They tell me Dull and Boring are now "twinned" -- the Boring Community group approved the relationship at their meeting Tuesday night. Our friends are visiting Dull in the Fall. In the '60s we all went to college in the wettest part of Oregon, just north of a town called Drain. There must be a town somewhere looking for a mate? Hole-in-the-Floor? New Zealand place-names are so colourless (boring?). Stephen Bond -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tina Norris Fields Sent: Friday, 8 June 2012 4:45 a.m. To: Stephen Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Dull and Boring to become twin cities Oh my! T Tina Norris Fields tinanfields at torchlake.com 231-322-2787 On 6/7/2012 8:06 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > This just in, no shyte. The Scottish village of Dull is going to twin with > the Oregon town of Boring. Don't believe me? > > http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidthier/2012/04/26/scottish-village-of-du ll-moves-to-partner-with-boring-oregon/ > > _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com This communication and its attachments, if any, may contain confidential and privileged information the use of which by other persons or entities than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you receive this transmission in error, please contact the sender immediately and delete the material from your system. _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Fri Jun 8 06:16:19 2012 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2012 07:16:19 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] Dull and Boring to become twin cities In-Reply-To: References: <00ed01cd44fe$6a838ac0$3f8aa040$@tydda.plus.com> <4A2958078962450CA712AAD2F16290DA@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: We just call it Llanfair for short. On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 3:51 AM, Tydda Jon - Slough wrote: > Well, there's Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwyll-llantysiliogogogoch > for starters... > > > From jon at tydda.plus.com Fri Jun 8 09:35:39 2012 From: jon at tydda.plus.com (Jon Tydda) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2012 15:35:39 +0100 Subject: [dba-Tech] Printer virus In-Reply-To: <20120608055443.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.38427341ec.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> References: <20120608055443.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.38427341ec.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> Message-ID: Hi all, we've been experiencing problems today across all our sites (worldwide) with printers spooling out reams of paper with random ASCII characters all over them, reminiscent of the Bugbear virus from about 10 years ago. It's not just us, there's lots of Internet traffic about this, it's happening everywhere. See https://community.mcafee.com/thread/45989?start=0 for more details. Importantly as ever, keep your anti-virus up to date and active. Jon From john at winhaven.net Fri Jun 8 10:43:59 2012 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2012 10:43:59 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Printer virus In-Reply-To: References: <20120608055443.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.38427341ec.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <04dc01cd458d$8589ac70$909d0550$@winhaven.net> You guys still using McAfee? Really? Anyway, keep us up to date. I haven't any reports of this happening yet. -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jon Tydda Sent: Friday, June 08, 2012 9:36 AM To: Off Topic; Dba-Tech Subject: [dba-Tech] Printer virus Hi all, we've been experiencing problems today across all our sites (worldwide) with printers spooling out reams of paper with random ASCII characters all over them, reminiscent of the Bugbear virus from about 10 years ago. It's not just us, there's lots of Internet traffic about this, it's happening everywhere. See https://community.mcafee.com/thread/45989?start=0 for more details. Importantly as ever, keep your anti-virus up to date and active. Jon _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Fri Jun 8 10:49:33 2012 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2012 16:49:33 +0100 Subject: [dba-Tech] Dull and Boring to become twin cities In-Reply-To: <4FD0D89D.20100@torchlake.com> Message-ID: <145C4F2A186C457C886DAECDB4C80444@MINSTER> Saw suggestion today that they should both get together with Great Snoring and Little Snoring in Norfolk (pron Norf.. Oh forget it ) Andy -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tina Norris Fields Sent: 07 June 2012 17:37 To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Dull and Boring to become twin cities Oh my! T Tina Norris Fields tinanfields at torchlake.com 231-322-2787 On 6/7/2012 8:06 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > This just in, no shyte. The Scottish village of Dull is going to twin with > the Oregon town of Boring. Don't believe me? > > http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidthier/2012/04/26/scottish-village-of-dull-m oves-to-partner-with-boring-oregon/ > > _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jon at tydda.plus.com Fri Jun 8 10:51:26 2012 From: jon at tydda.plus.com (Jon Tydda) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2012 16:51:26 +0100 Subject: [dba-Tech] Printer virus In-Reply-To: <04dc01cd458d$8589ac70$909d0550$@winhaven.net> References: <20120608055443.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.38427341ec.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> <04dc01cd458d$8589ac70$909d0550$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <2D4B474D-7D55-4088-9281-E642BA03D6B5@tydda.plus.com> God no, it was just the only place we found any online discussion. MalwareBytes has put an update out which finds and cleans this one. Jon Sent from my iPhone 6 (Beta) On 8 Jun 2012, at 16:43, "John Bartow" wrote: > You guys still using McAfee? Really? > > Anyway, keep us up to date. I haven't any reports of this happening yet. > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jon Tydda > Sent: Friday, June 08, 2012 9:36 AM > To: Off Topic; Dba-Tech > Subject: [dba-Tech] Printer virus > > Hi all, we've been experiencing problems today across all our sites > (worldwide) with printers spooling out reams of paper with random ASCII > characters all over them, reminiscent of the Bugbear virus from about 10 > years ago. > > It's not just us, there's lots of Internet traffic about this, it's > happening everywhere. See https://community.mcafee.com/thread/45989?start=0 > for more details. > > Importantly as ever, keep your anti-virus up to date and active. > > > Jon > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Fri Jun 8 11:20:13 2012 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2012 11:20:13 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Printer virus In-Reply-To: <2D4B474D-7D55-4088-9281-E642BA03D6B5@tydda.plus.com> References: <20120608055443.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.38427341ec.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> <04dc01cd458d$8589ac70$909d0550$@winhaven.net> <2D4B474D-7D55-4088-9281-E642BA03D6B5@tydda.plus.com> Message-ID: <050501cd4592$95557580$c0006080$@winhaven.net> TG! :-) Thanks for the info. This virus is obviously a Paper Co. conspiracy ;-) (ala: dickford) -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jon Tydda Sent: Friday, June 08, 2012 10:51 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Printer virus God no, it was just the only place we found any online discussion. MalwareBytes has put an update out which finds and cleans this one. Jon Sent from my iPhone 6 (Beta) On 8 Jun 2012, at 16:43, "John Bartow" wrote: > You guys still using McAfee? Really? > > Anyway, keep us up to date. I haven't any reports of this happening yet. > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jon Tydda > Sent: Friday, June 08, 2012 9:36 AM > To: Off Topic; Dba-Tech > Subject: [dba-Tech] Printer virus > > Hi all, we've been experiencing problems today across all our sites > (worldwide) with printers spooling out reams of paper with random > ASCII characters all over them, reminiscent of the Bugbear virus from > about 10 years ago. > > It's not just us, there's lots of Internet traffic about this, it's > happening everywhere. See > https://community.mcafee.com/thread/45989?start=0 > for more details. > > Importantly as ever, keep your anti-virus up to date and active. > > > Jon > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Jun 8 11:48:33 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2012 09:48:33 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] Printer virus In-Reply-To: <04dc01cd458d$8589ac70$909d0550$@winhaven.net> References: <20120608055443.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.38427341ec.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> <04dc01cd458d$8589ac70$909d0550$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: Changing the subject slight, but still concerned with Malware. We are about to go through a major change as our old BIOS standards chips are about to change. Most (all) new ASUS motherboards come with this new "BIOS" chip now called the EFI or Extensible Firmware Interface chip. It has the capacity to hold a large amount executable code, run that code and even be able to flash under program control. Linux and the open source community increased their effort to develop a replacement for proprietary BIOSes and their future incarnations with an open sourced counterpart through the coreboot and OpenBIOS/Open Firmware projects. The new Microsoft windows version have been reported to code these chips to their OS, be able to do activation from within the chip or even render their product inoperative if unsupported or unlicensed application are found on their system. There is a concern that Windows may not allow dual booting. As these new BIOS chips are fully flashable and even have RAM space on them, they will be a prime target for hackers, malware products, a battle ground for OS security and even electric static. If anything goes wrong with these chips will our VA software be capable of defending a system or even recovering a system after it has been "bricked"? Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, June 08, 2012 8:44 AM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Printer virus You guys still using McAfee? Really? Anyway, keep us up to date. I haven't any reports of this happening yet. -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jon Tydda Sent: Friday, June 08, 2012 9:36 AM To: Off Topic; Dba-Tech Subject: [dba-Tech] Printer virus Hi all, we've been experiencing problems today across all our sites (worldwide) with printers spooling out reams of paper with random ASCII characters all over them, reminiscent of the Bugbear virus from about 10 years ago. It's not just us, there's lots of Internet traffic about this, it's happening everywhere. See https://community.mcafee.com/thread/45989?start=0 for more details. Importantly as ever, keep your anti-virus up to date and active. Jon _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Fri Jun 8 12:33:33 2012 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2012 13:33:33 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] Dull and Boring to become twin cities In-Reply-To: <145C4F2A186C457C886DAECDB4C80444@MINSTER> References: <4FD0D89D.20100@torchlake.com> <145C4F2A186C457C886DAECDB4C80444@MINSTER> Message-ID: We clearly have not enough clients! Lawd oh lawd won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz. From john at winhaven.net Fri Jun 8 12:38:51 2012 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2012 12:38:51 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Printer virus In-Reply-To: <2D4B474D-7D55-4088-9281-E642BA03D6B5@tydda.plus.com> References: <20120608055443.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.38427341ec.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> <04dc01cd458d$8589ac70$909d0550$@winhaven.net> <2D4B474D-7D55-4088-9281-E642BA03D6B5@tydda.plus.com> Message-ID: <002d01cd459d$91bb84e0$b5328ea0$@winhaven.net> BTW what are you using for security software? IO - which of my client's will finally call me about this this evening at 5:00 pm? ;-) -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jon Tydda Sent: Friday, June 08, 2012 10:51 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Printer virus God no, it was just the only place we found any online discussion. MalwareBytes has put an update out which finds and cleans this one. Jon Sent from my iPhone 6 (Beta) On 8 Jun 2012, at 16:43, "John Bartow" wrote: > You guys still using McAfee? Really? > > Anyway, keep us up to date. I haven't any reports of this happening yet. > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jon Tydda > Sent: Friday, June 08, 2012 9:36 AM > To: Off Topic; Dba-Tech > Subject: [dba-Tech] Printer virus > > Hi all, we've been experiencing problems today across all our sites > (worldwide) with printers spooling out reams of paper with random > ASCII characters all over them, reminiscent of the Bugbear virus from > about 10 years ago. > > It's not just us, there's lots of Internet traffic about this, it's > happening everywhere. See > https://community.mcafee.com/thread/45989?start=0 > for more details. > > Importantly as ever, keep your anti-virus up to date and active. > > > Jon > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Fri Jun 8 12:38:51 2012 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2012 12:38:51 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Printer virus In-Reply-To: References: <20120608055443.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.38427341ec.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> <04dc01cd458d$8589ac70$909d0550$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <002f01cd459d$91df3980$b59dac80$@winhaven.net> In the short: no. In the long: yes. In the paranoid: big brother's cohesive effort to force us to the cloud where they have complete control. -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Friday, June 08, 2012 11:49 AM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Printer virus Changing the subject slight, but still concerned with Malware. We are about to go through a major change as our old BIOS standards chips are about to change. Most (all) new ASUS motherboards come with this new "BIOS" chip now called the EFI or Extensible Firmware Interface chip. It has the capacity to hold a large amount executable code, run that code and even be able to flash under program control. Linux and the open source community increased their effort to develop a replacement for proprietary BIOSes and their future incarnations with an open sourced counterpart through the coreboot and OpenBIOS/Open Firmware projects. The new Microsoft windows version have been reported to code these chips to their OS, be able to do activation from within the chip or even render their product inoperative if unsupported or unlicensed application are found on their system. There is a concern that Windows may not allow dual booting. As these new BIOS chips are fully flashable and even have RAM space on them, they will be a prime target for hackers, malware products, a battle ground for OS security and even electric static. If anything goes wrong with these chips will our VA software be capable of defending a system or even recovering a system after it has been "bricked"? Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, June 08, 2012 8:44 AM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Printer virus You guys still using McAfee? Really? Anyway, keep us up to date. I haven't any reports of this happening yet. -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jon Tydda Sent: Friday, June 08, 2012 9:36 AM To: Off Topic; Dba-Tech Subject: [dba-Tech] Printer virus Hi all, we've been experiencing problems today across all our sites (worldwide) with printers spooling out reams of paper with random ASCII characters all over them, reminiscent of the Bugbear virus from about 10 years ago. It's not just us, there's lots of Internet traffic about this, it's happening everywhere. See https://community.mcafee.com/thread/45989?start=0 for more details. Importantly as ever, keep your anti-virus up to date and active. Jon _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jon at tydda.plus.com Fri Jun 8 12:56:00 2012 From: jon at tydda.plus.com (Jon Tydda) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2012 18:56:00 +0100 Subject: [dba-Tech] Printer virus In-Reply-To: <002d01cd459d$91bb84e0$b5328ea0$@winhaven.net> References: <20120608055443.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.38427341ec.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> <04dc01cd458d$8589ac70$909d0550$@winhaven.net> <2D4B474D-7D55-4088-9281-E642BA03D6B5@tydda.plus.com> <002d01cd459d$91bb84e0$b5328ea0$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <73B5420A-97DF-4C96-8884-49ACC96D359F@tydda.plus.com> Trend, but I fully expect them to bring out an update today that fixes it, so you should be ok :-) At least I hope you are, as I'm on call this weekend, and could do without the calls! Jon Sent from my iPhone 6 (Beta) On 8 Jun 2012, at 18:38, "John Bartow" wrote: > BTW what are you using for security software? IO - which of my client's will > finally call me about this this evening at 5:00 pm? ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jon Tydda > Sent: Friday, June 08, 2012 10:51 AM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Printer virus > > God no, it was just the only place we found any online discussion. > MalwareBytes has put an update out which finds and cleans this one. > > > Jon > > Sent from my iPhone 6 (Beta) > > On 8 Jun 2012, at 16:43, "John Bartow" wrote: > >> You guys still using McAfee? Really? >> >> Anyway, keep us up to date. I haven't any reports of this happening yet. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jon Tydda >> Sent: Friday, June 08, 2012 9:36 AM >> To: Off Topic; Dba-Tech >> Subject: [dba-Tech] Printer virus >> >> Hi all, we've been experiencing problems today across all our sites >> (worldwide) with printers spooling out reams of paper with random >> ASCII characters all over them, reminiscent of the Bugbear virus from >> about 10 years ago. >> >> It's not just us, there's lots of Internet traffic about this, it's >> happening everywhere. See >> https://community.mcafee.com/thread/45989?start=0 >> for more details. >> >> Importantly as ever, keep your anti-virus up to date and active. >> >> >> Jon >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Jun 8 13:13:16 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2012 11:13:16 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] Printer virus In-Reply-To: <002f01cd459d$91df3980$b59dac80$@winhaven.net> References: <20120608055443.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.38427341ec.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> <04dc01cd458d$8589ac70$909d0550$@winhaven.net> <002f01cd459d$91df3980$b59dac80$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: I do not know whether I like the idea of all computers just becoming dumb terminals. The whole concept of the Personal Computer is disappearing and personal privacy and rights, it affords, along with it. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, June 08, 2012 10:39 AM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Printer virus In the short: no. In the long: yes. In the paranoid: big brother's cohesive effort to force us to the cloud where they have complete control. -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Friday, June 08, 2012 11:49 AM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Printer virus Changing the subject slight, but still concerned with Malware. We are about to go through a major change as our old BIOS standards chips are about to change. Most (all) new ASUS motherboards come with this new "BIOS" chip now called the EFI or Extensible Firmware Interface chip. It has the capacity to hold a large amount executable code, run that code and even be able to flash under program control. Linux and the open source community increased their effort to develop a replacement for proprietary BIOSes and their future incarnations with an open sourced counterpart through the coreboot and OpenBIOS/Open Firmware projects. The new Microsoft windows version have been reported to code these chips to their OS, be able to do activation from within the chip or even render their product inoperative if unsupported or unlicensed application are found on their system. There is a concern that Windows may not allow dual booting. As these new BIOS chips are fully flashable and even have RAM space on them, they will be a prime target for hackers, malware products, a battle ground for OS security and even electric static. If anything goes wrong with these chips will our VA software be capable of defending a system or even recovering a system after it has been "bricked"? Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, June 08, 2012 8:44 AM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Printer virus You guys still using McAfee? Really? Anyway, keep us up to date. I haven't any reports of this happening yet. -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jon Tydda Sent: Friday, June 08, 2012 9:36 AM To: Off Topic; Dba-Tech Subject: [dba-Tech] Printer virus Hi all, we've been experiencing problems today across all our sites (worldwide) with printers spooling out reams of paper with random ASCII characters all over them, reminiscent of the Bugbear virus from about 10 years ago. It's not just us, there's lots of Internet traffic about this, it's happening everywhere. See https://community.mcafee.com/thread/45989?start=0 for more details. Importantly as ever, keep your anti-virus up to date and active. Jon _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Fri Jun 8 13:24:28 2012 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2012 13:24:28 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Printer virus In-Reply-To: <73B5420A-97DF-4C96-8884-49ACC96D359F@tydda.plus.com> References: <20120608055443.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.38427341ec.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> <04dc01cd458d$8589ac70$909d0550$@winhaven.net> <2D4B474D-7D55-4088-9281-E642BA03D6B5@tydda.plus.com> <002d01cd459d$91bb84e0$b5328ea0$@winhaven.net> <73B5420A-97DF-4C96-8884-49ACC96D359F@tydda.plus.com> Message-ID: <007501cd45a3$f112f670$d338e350$@winhaven.net> Yes, I only have a couple of home users with Trend. Dell included it with laptops so Best Buy was claiming it was free for 3 years, lol, yea-right. -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jon Tydda Sent: Friday, June 08, 2012 12:56 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Printer virus Trend, but I fully expect them to bring out an update today that fixes it, so you should be ok :-) At least I hope you are, as I'm on call this weekend, and could do without the calls! Jon Sent from my iPhone 6 (Beta) On 8 Jun 2012, at 18:38, "John Bartow" wrote: > BTW what are you using for security software? IO - which of my > client's will finally call me about this this evening at 5:00 pm? ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jon Tydda > Sent: Friday, June 08, 2012 10:51 AM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Printer virus > > God no, it was just the only place we found any online discussion. > MalwareBytes has put an update out which finds and cleans this one. > > > Jon > > Sent from my iPhone 6 (Beta) > > On 8 Jun 2012, at 16:43, "John Bartow" wrote: > >> You guys still using McAfee? Really? >> >> Anyway, keep us up to date. I haven't any reports of this happening yet. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jon Tydda >> Sent: Friday, June 08, 2012 9:36 AM >> To: Off Topic; Dba-Tech >> Subject: [dba-Tech] Printer virus >> >> Hi all, we've been experiencing problems today across all our sites >> (worldwide) with printers spooling out reams of paper with random >> ASCII characters all over them, reminiscent of the Bugbear virus from >> about 10 years ago. >> >> It's not just us, there's lots of Internet traffic about this, it's >> happening everywhere. See >> https://community.mcafee.com/thread/45989?start=0 >> for more details. >> >> Importantly as ever, keep your anti-virus up to date and active. >> >> >> Jon >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marklbreen at gmail.com Mon Jun 11 03:26:50 2012 From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 09:26:50 +0100 Subject: [dba-Tech] Printer virus In-Reply-To: <04dc01cd458d$8589ac70$909d0550$@winhaven.net> References: <20120608055443.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.38427341ec.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> <04dc01cd458d$8589ac70$909d0550$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: Hi John, What should we be using? I do not pay too much attention to it, but I have McAfee on a few sites. thanks Mark On 8 June 2012 16:43, John Bartow wrote: > You guys still using McAfee? Really? > > Anyway, keep us up to date. I haven't any reports of this happening yet. > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jon Tydda > Sent: Friday, June 08, 2012 9:36 AM > To: Off Topic; Dba-Tech > Subject: [dba-Tech] Printer virus > > Hi all, we've been experiencing problems today across all our sites > (worldwide) with printers spooling out reams of paper with random ASCII > characters all over them, reminiscent of the Bugbear virus from about 10 > years ago. > > It's not just us, there's lots of Internet traffic about this, it's > happening everywhere. See > https://community.mcafee.com/thread/45989?start=0 > for more details. > > Importantly as ever, keep your anti-virus up to date and active. > > > Jon > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From hans.andersen at phulse.com Mon Jun 11 03:50:59 2012 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 01:50:59 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] Printer virus In-Reply-To: References: <20120608055443.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.38427341ec.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> <04dc01cd458d$8589ac70$909d0550$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <61C3C60E-FCBA-4C62-95B4-FD25A9A77238@phulse.com> I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, On 2012-06-11, at 1:26 AM, Mark Breen wrote: > Hi John, > > What should we be using? I do not pay too much attention to it, but I have > McAfee on a few sites. > > thanks > > Mark > > > On 8 June 2012 16:43, John Bartow wrote: > >> You guys still using McAfee? Really? >> >> Anyway, keep us up to date. I haven't any reports of this happening yet. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jon Tydda >> Sent: Friday, June 08, 2012 9:36 AM >> To: Off Topic; Dba-Tech >> Subject: [dba-Tech] Printer virus >> >> Hi all, we've been experiencing problems today across all our sites >> (worldwide) with printers spooling out reams of paper with random ASCII >> characters all over them, reminiscent of the Bugbear virus from about 10 >> years ago. >> >> It's not just us, there's lots of Internet traffic about this, it's >> happening everywhere. See >> https://community.mcafee.com/thread/45989?start=0 >> for more details. >> >> Importantly as ever, keep your anti-virus up to date and active. >> >> >> Jon >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Mon Jun 11 12:05:47 2012 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 12:05:47 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Printer virus In-Reply-To: References: <20120608055443.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.38427341ec.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> <04dc01cd458d$8589ac70$909d0550$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <01fc01cd47f4$72502620$56f07260$@winhaven.net> I'd recommend almost anything else instead. But for enterprise situations I use Vipre Business edition, for tiny businesses (< 10) and for home offices I prefer Vipre Internet Security (now includes an Android solution as well). It has free U.S based support. I don't know of any Ireland based AVs. Sophos was U.K. based, so maybe that would be a good alternative to look into. Having good, understandable support people available is very important when things do go wrong. And nothing out there is perfect. I've been Beta testing and using Vipre since they wrote the program a few years ago. I liked it so much that I became an GFI affiliate and Partner. Here's a link which includes my affiliate info: https://shop.vipreantivirus.com/582/cookie?affiliate=15847&redirectto=http%3 a%2f%2fwww.vipreantivirus.com%2fVIPRE-Internet-Security%2f&product=65888 (It's easy to become an affiliate of almost every company but I choose not to because I don't want to associate my name with things I wouldn't recommend for free anyway). For free security, I now recommend Microsoft Security Essentials and Windows Firewall: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-GB/windows/products/security-essentials It runs a lot lighter than most of the free ones and has UI that people can understand. I also change their Routers or NICs to use "clean" DNS servers. OpenDNS has a free service. www.opendns.org (There are others available.) I also install the free version of MalwareBytes (without active protection enabled). Then if someone calls with what sounds like a fake security program that got by Vipre's active protection, I have them scan with MalWareBytes (which is really good at cleaning those off). Good luck! John B. -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Breen Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 3:27 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Printer virus Hi John, What should we be using? I do not pay too much attention to it, but I have McAfee on a few sites. thanks Mark From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Jun 11 13:08:54 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 11:08:54 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] Printer virus In-Reply-To: <01fc01cd47f4$72502620$56f07260$@winhaven.net> References: <20120608055443.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.38427341ec.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> <04dc01cd458d$8589ac70$909d0550$@winhaven.net> <01fc01cd47f4$72502620$56f07260$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <78A48F85FF4B4E30A208F65DCD9E50CB@creativesystemdesigns.com> Malwarebytes is also a recommendation as, mentioned before, in one particular case, it detected a virus that not even Vipre or Essentials could find. The more weapons that can be deployed against an infection the better. I would recommend keeping a self booting thumb-drive full of latest options, as the best policy. A Linux self booting memory stick would have a smallest foot-print and be far less likely to suffer infection but I haven't built one yet. ;-) ...there are a few ISOs out there with all sorts of products included and they might be worthy of further investigation. Anyone have any recommendation? Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 10:06 AM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Printer virus I'd recommend almost anything else instead. But for enterprise situations I use Vipre Business edition, for tiny businesses (< 10) and for home offices I prefer Vipre Internet Security (now includes an Android solution as well). It has free U.S based support. I don't know of any Ireland based AVs. Sophos was U.K. based, so maybe that would be a good alternative to look into. Having good, understandable support people available is very important when things do go wrong. And nothing out there is perfect. I've been Beta testing and using Vipre since they wrote the program a few years ago. I liked it so much that I became an GFI affiliate and Partner. Here's a link which includes my affiliate info: https://shop.vipreantivirus.com/582/cookie?affiliate=15847&redirectto=http%3 a%2f%2fwww.vipreantivirus.com%2fVIPRE-Internet-Security%2f&product=65888 (It's easy to become an affiliate of almost every company but I choose not to because I don't want to associate my name with things I wouldn't recommend for free anyway). For free security, I now recommend Microsoft Security Essentials and Windows Firewall: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-GB/windows/products/security-essentials It runs a lot lighter than most of the free ones and has UI that people can understand. I also change their Routers or NICs to use "clean" DNS servers. OpenDNS has a free service. www.opendns.org (There are others available.) I also install the free version of MalwareBytes (without active protection enabled). Then if someone calls with what sounds like a fake security program that got by Vipre's active protection, I have them scan with MalWareBytes (which is really good at cleaning those off). Good luck! John B. -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Breen Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 3:27 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Printer virus Hi John, What should we be using? I do not pay too much attention to it, but I have McAfee on a few sites. thanks Mark _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Jun 11 21:17:19 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 19:17:19 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <01fc01cd47f4$72502620$56f07260$@winhaven.net> References: <20120608055443.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.38427341ec.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> <04dc01cd458d$8589ac70$909d0550$@winhaven.net> <01fc01cd47f4$72502620$56f07260$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: My thoughts on why Windows 8. Everyone or at least most are saying the Microsoft is killing themselves but not really. They are just trying to resolve a number of problems and W8 is the ticket. For years they have provided a cheap OS on every PC but have reaped little in benefits (no as much as they would like) and now is the chance to turn things around. They are going for the long pass. 1. Their new system will not support other browsers than IE. No more challengers. Now they will have complete control of not only IE development but all other products running through their system. Bing will be the default search engine of course and MS will have undivided sales revenues. 2. Google would be not be gone of course but it dominance on the MS platforms will be dramatically reduced. One enemy slowed. 3. Backward compatibility is always been an expensive issue and takes lots of additional programming to support with no apparent reaping of benefits. W8 clients, if they want application will have to buy new MS applications...more profit. 4. All application that will go on the system will have to be vetted through Microsoft. Rest assured applications that are competing with MS applications will have a hard time finding a good place and they will have to adhere to very strict MS policies. More chances that clients will just purchase or lease through the cloud, MS products. 5. Far less chances for viruses as Microsoft will control all internet access and that's good for business. 6. Another thorn in their side has been the Open Source community and with a combination of the new extended BIOS and careful vigilance their impact can be slowed and maybe even halted. This will mean stopping defectors and that mean more sales of MS products. 7. Being able to easily detect and eliminate any installed products suspect of a patent violation or writes infringements now can be easily detected and crippled. Of course if you anti-up those issues can be solved. 8. By limiting the number of developers on their new platforms a greater profit can be made from those and by those adding extra features. Much like Oracle who only provide support to their certified techs...certification that costs a fair dollar. 9. Of course any applications will be able to run on the system but only when installed in a virtual PC interface. Then the new applications will not perform as well as they are not running in native mode. Such abominations as VirtulBox will have to find another home of course. 10. Goodbye VB and any direct support of it. Time for all programmers to learn .Net products and pay for the development tools instead getting them for free. There are probably many other good business reasons for Microsoft to move to W8 but these are high-lights. Will MS loss many customers? Yes and no. Most customers will have to just languish using Windows 7 as slowly over a few years, like XP it will be phased out. By then the fear of W8 will be over and they will have little choice but to migrate as all new PCs will come with W8 on them. (I am sure there will be some great migration tools available by then and they will be very reasonabily priced) In the meantime, all users that have moved will have paid a handsome amount in purchasing and supporting new MS software....not all at once but slowly and steadily. Most of the riffraff developer will have gone, Google, FF etc revenue streams will be dramatically down and the Open Source world will have to find other OSs on which to run their evil products. Will there be a mass movement to such systems like Apple or Linux or even some new Android platform? Not likely, as few businesses have the resources to go Apple, there are too few Apple techs to do any major migrations or have the skills needed to attach to backend servers, most users are totally freaked with Linux distros and no other Operating systems are there yet to challenge. In summary, Microsoft has placed a bold new plan in place which allow them to regain virtually absolute control of the market and they might just as likely succeed. Their profits may be dramatically down but in the next five years they may again rival those of Apple. Resistance is futile. Jim From gustav at cactus.dk Tue Jun 12 03:50:49 2012 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 10:50:49 +0200 Subject: [dba-Tech] Printer virus Message-ID: Hi Jim TrojanHunter. This and Malwarebytes are the two who have cleaned up the mess where normal tools gave up. We've never used it internally, only on clients' machines, which tells that common sense can help to avoid malware nearly 100%. In my experience, if these can't do it, reinstall is the only realistic next step. /gustav >>> accessd at shaw.ca 11-06-12 20:08 >>> Malwarebytes is also a recommendation as, mentioned before, in one particular case, it detected a virus that not even Vipre or Essentials could find. The more weapons that can be deployed against an infection the better. I would recommend keeping a self booting thumb-drive full of latest options, as the best policy. A Linux self booting memory stick would have a smallest foot-print and be far less likely to suffer infection but I haven't built one yet. ;-) ...there are a few ISOs out there with all sorts of products included and they might be worthy of further investigation. Anyone have any recommendation? Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 10:06 AM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Printer virus I'd recommend almost anything else instead. But for enterprise situations I use Vipre Business edition, for tiny businesses (< 10) and for home offices I prefer Vipre Internet Security (now includes an Android solution as well). It has free U.S based support. I don't know of any Ireland based AVs. Sophos was U.K. based, so maybe that would be a good alternative to look into. Having good, understandable support people available is very important when things do go wrong. And nothing out there is perfect. I've been Beta testing and using Vipre since they wrote the program a few years ago. I liked it so much that I became an GFI affiliate and Partner. Here's a link which includes my affiliate info: https://shop.vipreantivirus.com/582/cookie?affiliate=15847&redirectto=http%3 a%2f%2fwww.vipreantivirus.com%2fVIPRE-Internet-Security%2f&product=65888 (It's easy to become an affiliate of almost every company but I choose not to because I don't want to associate my name with things I wouldn't recommend for free anyway). For free security, I now recommend Microsoft Security Essentials and Windows Firewall: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-GB/windows/products/security-essentials It runs a lot lighter than most of the free ones and has UI that people can understand. I also change their Routers or NICs to use "clean" DNS servers. OpenDNS has a free service. www.opendns.org (There are others available.) I also install the free version of MalwareBytes (without active protection enabled). Then if someone calls with what sounds like a fake security program that got by Vipre's active protection, I have them scan with MalWareBytes (which is really good at cleaning those off). Good luck! John B. -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Breen Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 3:27 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Printer virus Hi John, What should we be using? I do not pay too much attention to it, but I have McAfee on a few sites. thanks Mark From jon.tydda at lonza.com Tue Jun 12 03:47:10 2012 From: jon.tydda at lonza.com (Tydda Jon - Slough) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 10:47:10 +0200 Subject: [dba-Tech] Printer virus In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Agreed. I've used both before, and they clean the parts that other tools can't reach. Jon -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: 12 June 2012 09:51 To: dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Printer virus Hi Jim TrojanHunter. This and Malwarebytes are the two who have cleaned up the mess where normal tools gave up. We've never used it internally, only on clients' machines, which tells that common sense can help to avoid malware nearly 100%. In my experience, if these can't do it, reinstall is the only realistic next step. /gustav >>> accessd at shaw.ca 11-06-12 20:08 >>> Malwarebytes is also a recommendation as, mentioned before, in one particular case, it detected a virus that not even Vipre or Essentials could find. The more weapons that can be deployed against an infection the better. I would recommend keeping a self booting thumb-drive full of latest options, as the best policy. A Linux self booting memory stick would have a smallest foot-print and be far less likely to suffer infection but I haven't built one yet. ;-) ...there are a few ISOs out there with all sorts of products included and they might be worthy of further investigation. Anyone have any recommendation? Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 10:06 AM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Printer virus I'd recommend almost anything else instead. But for enterprise situations I use Vipre Business edition, for tiny businesses (< 10) and for home offices I prefer Vipre Internet Security (now includes an Android solution as well). It has free U.S based support. I don't know of any Ireland based AVs. Sophos was U.K. based, so maybe that would be a good alternative to look into. Having good, understandable support people available is very important when things do go wrong. And nothing out there is perfect. I've been Beta testing and using Vipre since they wrote the program a few years ago. I liked it so much that I became an GFI affiliate and Partner. Here's a link which includes my affiliate info: https://shop.vipreantivirus.com/582/cookie?affiliate=15847&redirectto=http%3 a%2f%2fwww.vipreantivirus.com%2fVIPRE-Internet-Security%2f&product=65888 (It's easy to become an affiliate of almost every company but I choose not to because I don't want to associate my name with things I wouldn't recommend for free anyway). For free security, I now recommend Microsoft Security Essentials and Windows Firewall: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-GB/windows/products/security-essentials It runs a lot lighter than most of the free ones and has UI that people can understand. I also change their Routers or NICs to use "clean" DNS servers. OpenDNS has a free service. www.opendns.org (There are others available.) I also install the free version of MalwareBytes (without active protection enabled). Then if someone calls with what sounds like a fake security program that got by Vipre's active protection, I have them scan with MalWareBytes (which is really good at cleaning those off). Good luck! John B. -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Breen Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 3:27 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Printer virus Hi John, What should we be using? I do not pay too much attention to it, but I have McAfee on a few sites. thanks Mark _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com This communication and its attachments, if any, may contain confidential and privileged information the use of which by other persons or entities than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you receive this transmission in error, please contact the sender immediately and delete the material from your system. From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Jun 12 10:09:29 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 08:09:29 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] Printer virus In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks for the recommendations guys. Will explore TrojanHunter which I have never heard of before. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tydda Jon - Slough Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2012 1:47 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Printer virus Agreed. I've used both before, and they clean the parts that other tools can't reach. Jon -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: 12 June 2012 09:51 To: dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Printer virus Hi Jim TrojanHunter. This and Malwarebytes are the two who have cleaned up the mess where normal tools gave up. We've never used it internally, only on clients' machines, which tells that common sense can help to avoid malware nearly 100%. In my experience, if these can't do it, reinstall is the only realistic next step. /gustav >>> accessd at shaw.ca 11-06-12 20:08 >>> Malwarebytes is also a recommendation as, mentioned before, in one particular case, it detected a virus that not even Vipre or Essentials could find. The more weapons that can be deployed against an infection the better. I would recommend keeping a self booting thumb-drive full of latest options, as the best policy. A Linux self booting memory stick would have a smallest foot-print and be far less likely to suffer infection but I haven't built one yet. ;-) ...there are a few ISOs out there with all sorts of products included and they might be worthy of further investigation. Anyone have any recommendation? Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 10:06 AM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Printer virus I'd recommend almost anything else instead. But for enterprise situations I use Vipre Business edition, for tiny businesses (< 10) and for home offices I prefer Vipre Internet Security (now includes an Android solution as well). It has free U.S based support. I don't know of any Ireland based AVs. Sophos was U.K. based, so maybe that would be a good alternative to look into. Having good, understandable support people available is very important when things do go wrong. And nothing out there is perfect. I've been Beta testing and using Vipre since they wrote the program a few years ago. I liked it so much that I became an GFI affiliate and Partner. Here's a link which includes my affiliate info: https://shop.vipreantivirus.com/582/cookie?affiliate=15847&redirectto=http%3 a%2f%2fwww.vipreantivirus.com%2fVIPRE-Internet-Security%2f&product=65888 (It's easy to become an affiliate of almost every company but I choose not to because I don't want to associate my name with things I wouldn't recommend for free anyway). For free security, I now recommend Microsoft Security Essentials and Windows Firewall: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-GB/windows/products/security-essentials It runs a lot lighter than most of the free ones and has UI that people can understand. I also change their Routers or NICs to use "clean" DNS servers. OpenDNS has a free service. www.opendns.org (There are others available.) I also install the free version of MalwareBytes (without active protection enabled). Then if someone calls with what sounds like a fake security program that got by Vipre's active protection, I have them scan with MalWareBytes (which is really good at cleaning those off). Good luck! John B. -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Breen Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 3:27 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Printer virus Hi John, What should we be using? I do not pay too much attention to it, but I have McAfee on a few sites. thanks Mark _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com This communication and its attachments, if any, may contain confidential and privileged information the use of which by other persons or entities than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you receive this transmission in error, please contact the sender immediately and delete the material from your system. _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jon.tydda at lonza.com Tue Jun 12 10:12:49 2012 From: jon.tydda at lonza.com (Tydda Jon - Slough) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 17:12:49 +0200 Subject: [dba-Tech] Printer virus In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It's made by Mischel, I think. It certainly used to be! Jon -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: 12 June 2012 16:09 To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Printer virus Thanks for the recommendations guys. Will explore TrojanHunter which I have never heard of before. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tydda Jon - Slough Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2012 1:47 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Printer virus Agreed. I've used both before, and they clean the parts that other tools can't reach. Jon -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: 12 June 2012 09:51 To: dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Printer virus Hi Jim TrojanHunter. This and Malwarebytes are the two who have cleaned up the mess where normal tools gave up. We've never used it internally, only on clients' machines, which tells that common sense can help to avoid malware nearly 100%. In my experience, if these can't do it, reinstall is the only realistic next step. /gustav >>> accessd at shaw.ca 11-06-12 20:08 >>> Malwarebytes is also a recommendation as, mentioned before, in one particular case, it detected a virus that not even Vipre or Essentials could find. The more weapons that can be deployed against an infection the better. I would recommend keeping a self booting thumb-drive full of latest options, as the best policy. A Linux self booting memory stick would have a smallest foot-print and be far less likely to suffer infection but I haven't built one yet. ;-) ...there are a few ISOs out there with all sorts of products included and they might be worthy of further investigation. Anyone have any recommendation? Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 10:06 AM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Printer virus I'd recommend almost anything else instead. But for enterprise situations I use Vipre Business edition, for tiny businesses (< 10) and for home offices I prefer Vipre Internet Security (now includes an Android solution as well). It has free U.S based support. I don't know of any Ireland based AVs. Sophos was U.K. based, so maybe that would be a good alternative to look into. Having good, understandable support people available is very important when things do go wrong. And nothing out there is perfect. I've been Beta testing and using Vipre since they wrote the program a few years ago. I liked it so much that I became an GFI affiliate and Partner. Here's a link which includes my affiliate info: https://shop.vipreantivirus.com/582/cookie?affiliate=15847&redirectto=http%3 a%2f%2fwww.vipreantivirus.com%2fVIPRE-Internet-Security%2f&product=65888 (It's easy to become an affiliate of almost every company but I choose not to because I don't want to associate my name with things I wouldn't recommend for free anyway). For free security, I now recommend Microsoft Security Essentials and Windows Firewall: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-GB/windows/products/security-essentials It runs a lot lighter than most of the free ones and has UI that people can understand. I also change their Routers or NICs to use "clean" DNS servers. OpenDNS has a free service. www.opendns.org (There are others available.) I also install the free version of MalwareBytes (without active protection enabled). Then if someone calls with what sounds like a fake security program that got by Vipre's active protection, I have them scan with MalWareBytes (which is really good at cleaning those off). Good luck! John B. -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Breen Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 3:27 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Printer virus Hi John, What should we be using? I do not pay too much attention to it, but I have McAfee on a few sites. thanks Mark _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com This communication and its attachments, if any, may contain confidential and privileged information the use of which by other persons or entities than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you receive this transmission in error, please contact the sender immediately and delete the material from your system. _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com This communication and its attachments, if any, may contain confidential and privileged information the use of which by other persons or entities than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you receive this transmission in error, please contact the sender immediately and delete the material from your system. From john at winhaven.net Tue Jun 12 10:41:53 2012 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 10:41:53 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Printer virus In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <014c01cd48b1$e441a110$acc4e330$@winhaven.net> Hi Gustav, Agreed! I rarely have to clean regular client machines which have proper protection and user instructions. But new, or short term, client's machines that are infected are generally quite a mess these days. The users either don't have protection, don't renew their protection or have poor quality protection such McLafee. Or they bypass the protection in order to do something the protection won't let them. I'm always looking for effective cleanup tools. Thanks, I will try TrojanHunter. -John B -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2012 3:51 AM To: dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Printer virus Hi Jim TrojanHunter. This and Malwarebytes are the two who have cleaned up the mess where normal tools gave up. We've never used it internally, only on clients' machines, which tells that common sense can help to avoid malware nearly 100%. In my experience, if these can't do it, reinstall is the only realistic next step. /gustav >>> accessd at shaw.ca 11-06-12 20:08 >>> Malwarebytes is also a recommendation as, mentioned before, in one particular case, it detected a virus that not even Vipre or Essentials could find. The more weapons that can be deployed against an infection the better. I would recommend keeping a self booting thumb-drive full of latest options, as the best policy. A Linux self booting memory stick would have a smallest foot-print and be far less likely to suffer infection but I haven't built one yet. ;-) ...there are a few ISOs out there with all sorts of products included and they might be worthy of further investigation. Anyone have any recommendation? Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 10:06 AM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Printer virus I'd recommend almost anything else instead. But for enterprise situations I use Vipre Business edition, for tiny businesses (< 10) and for home offices I prefer Vipre Internet Security (now includes an Android solution as well). It has free U.S based support. I don't know of any Ireland based AVs. Sophos was U.K. based, so maybe that would be a good alternative to look into. Having good, understandable support people available is very important when things do go wrong. And nothing out there is perfect. I've been Beta testing and using Vipre since they wrote the program a few years ago. I liked it so much that I became an GFI affiliate and Partner. Here's a link which includes my affiliate info: https://shop.vipreantivirus.com/582/cookie?affiliate=15847&redirectto=http%3 a%2f%2fwww.vipreantivirus.com%2fVIPRE-Internet-Security%2f&product=65888 (It's easy to become an affiliate of almost every company but I choose not to because I don't want to associate my name with things I wouldn't recommend for free anyway). For free security, I now recommend Microsoft Security Essentials and Windows Firewall: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-GB/windows/products/security-essentials It runs a lot lighter than most of the free ones and has UI that people can understand. I also change their Routers or NICs to use "clean" DNS servers. OpenDNS has a free service. www.opendns.org (There are others available.) I also install the free version of MalwareBytes (without active protection enabled). Then if someone calls with what sounds like a fake security program that got by Vipre's active protection, I have them scan with MalWareBytes (which is really good at cleaning those off). Good luck! John B. -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Breen Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 3:27 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Printer virus Hi John, What should we be using? I do not pay too much attention to it, but I have McAfee on a few sites. thanks Mark _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From carbonnb at gmail.com Wed Jun 13 07:41:49 2012 From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 08:41:49 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] Word for Mac Templaes Message-ID: Has anyone gone through the process of converting a template built in Word 2000/2007 and converted it to be used in Word 2011 for Mac? The template includes styles, custom button bars, code. The whole 9 yards. Any pointers, gotchas, would be greatly appreciated. I have a feeling I'm going to need to go down that road shortly, so I want to be prepared. Thanks, -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" From tinanfields at torchlake.com Wed Jun 13 08:48:52 2012 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 09:48:52 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] Word for Mac Templaes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4FD89A44.1000100@torchlake.com> Hi Bryan, I did that a few years ago for a client, with somewhat disappointing results. In particular, the placement of elements did not remain correct, as I recall. I was working on a letterhead, which included a logo and other stuff. The logo wouldn't stay where I put it when I brought the template from my WinXP, Office 2003 environment and put it in his Max OS(9 or 10 - not sure) environment. Oh, yes, I embedded a font, and that didn't work, either. Haven't tried it since then. T Tina Norris Fields tinanfields at torchlake.com 231-322-2787 On 6/13/2012 8:41 AM, Bryan Carbonnell wrote: > Has anyone gone through the process of converting a template built in > Word 2000/2007 and converted it to be used in Word 2011 for Mac? > > The template includes styles, custom button bars, code. The whole 9 yards. > > Any pointers, gotchas, would be greatly appreciated. > > I have a feeling I'm going to need to go down that road shortly, so I > want to be prepared. > > Thanks, > From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Jun 13 09:52:48 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 07:52:48 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] Word for Mac Templaes In-Reply-To: <4FD89A44.1000100@torchlake.com> References: <4FD89A44.1000100@torchlake.com> Message-ID: <4AA93BADD635400E9DFBA4F57B3BC6B5@creativesystemdesigns.com> I will concur. It has been a few years since I tried to migrate anything to Mac and I would suspect the process should be easier now. Maybe someone who actually has a Mac could answer that question seeing there is a Mac and PC word versions out there. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tina Norris Fields Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2012 6:49 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Word for Mac Templaes Hi Bryan, I did that a few years ago for a client, with somewhat disappointing results. In particular, the placement of elements did not remain correct, as I recall. I was working on a letterhead, which included a logo and other stuff. The logo wouldn't stay where I put it when I brought the template from my WinXP, Office 2003 environment and put it in his Max OS(9 or 10 - not sure) environment. Oh, yes, I embedded a font, and that didn't work, either. Haven't tried it since then. T Tina Norris Fields tinanfields at torchlake.com 231-322-2787 On 6/13/2012 8:41 AM, Bryan Carbonnell wrote: > Has anyone gone through the process of converting a template built in > Word 2000/2007 and converted it to be used in Word 2011 for Mac? > > The template includes styles, custom button bars, code. The whole 9 yards. > > Any pointers, gotchas, would be greatly appreciated. > > I have a feeling I'm going to need to go down that road shortly, so I > want to be prepared. > > Thanks, > _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Jun 13 10:26:46 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 08:26:46 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] 3D printers In-Reply-To: <4FD89A44.1000100@torchlake.com> References: <4FD89A44.1000100@torchlake.com> Message-ID: For those people who need or want to build 3D components and models, in various forms of plastics it appears that the best system out there is the RepRap printer. It has been described as the Raspberry PI of the 3D printer world. http://www.reprap.org/wiki/RepRap According to a friend who has done extensive research into these type of printers the RepRap (Replication-Rapid) is the best product of its sort on the planet. If you require steel and other metal fabrication this is not what you need. But if you are building molds and limited run plastic products this is for you. The resolution is of very fine grain. The resultant products are far superior to similar priced units or even units 3 and 10 times the price. The machine completely dissembled and is shipped in this form but it is easy to rebuild. If you order one, coming from the UK, it will cost you about $800.00 landed. There will of course be duty charges but they limited as assembly is required. The other great things about this product is that the software that runs it is totally Open Source and is continually being improved and refined. Even the design of the product is Open Source and once you have received you original printer you can download a full set of 3D component files, from the site and simply build your own 3D printer again and again. The only pieces that can not be replicated are the metal pieces but they were originally choosen so they are simple and can be easily sourced from virtually any hardware store. These units are of course in super high demand and if you order one today your order would not be received for three to four months. One friend ordered one unit, in late May but is not expecting his printer until the end of August. So for all you modeller or fabricators check this out. Jim From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Jun 13 11:03:08 2012 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 18:03:08 +0200 Subject: [dba-Tech] 3D printers Message-ID: Hi Jim Seems like your friend has seen the business opportunity: Buy one printer and let it print duplicates of itself continously. Get the bits and pieces from the hardware shop and he is the next 3D printer supplier. /gustav >>> accessd at shaw.ca 13-06-12 17:26 >>> For those people who need or want to build 3D components and models, in various forms of plastics it appears that the best system out there is the RepRap printer. It has been described as the Raspberry PI of the 3D printer world. http://www.reprap.org/wiki/RepRap According to a friend who has done extensive research into these type of printers the RepRap (Replication-Rapid) is the best product of its sort on the planet. If you require steel and other metal fabrication this is not what you need. But if you are building molds and limited run plastic products this is for you. The resolution is of very fine grain. The resultant products are far superior to similar priced units or even units 3 and 10 times the price. The machine completely dissembled and is shipped in this form but it is easy to rebuild. If you order one, coming from the UK, it will cost you about $800.00 landed. There will of course be duty charges but they limited as assembly is required. The other great things about this product is that the software that runs it is totally Open Source and is continually being improved and refined. Even the design of the product is Open Source and once you have received you original printer you can download a full set of 3D component files, from the site and simply build your own 3D printer again and again. The only pieces that can not be replicated are the metal pieces but they were originally choosen so they are simple and can be easily sourced from virtually any hardware store. These units are of course in super high demand and if you order one today your order would not be received for three to four months. One friend ordered one unit, in late May but is not expecting his printer until the end of August. So for all you modeller or fabricators check this out. Jim From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Jun 13 11:13:00 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 09:13:00 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] 3D printers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <933F124DFE6F4D1DA73AA678AA07B8CC@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Gustav: It definitely is a new world out there and now with this inexpensive high-resolution printer, it can be used for many tasks. Model figurines, replace a broken coupler, build a replacement electronic component by cutting your own boards, build broken gears or even a slip mold for a teapot...the possibilities are virtually endless. All you would need to go into full manufacturing is a lathe (One of the other tools that can replicate itself), a casting setup and a supply of metals and plastics. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2012 9:03 AM To: dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] 3D printers Hi Jim Seems like your friend has seen the business opportunity: Buy one printer and let it print duplicates of itself continously. Get the bits and pieces from the hardware shop and he is the next 3D printer supplier. /gustav >>> accessd at shaw.ca 13-06-12 17:26 >>> For those people who need or want to build 3D components and models, in various forms of plastics it appears that the best system out there is the RepRap printer. It has been described as the Raspberry PI of the 3D printer world. http://www.reprap.org/wiki/RepRap According to a friend who has done extensive research into these type of printers the RepRap (Replication-Rapid) is the best product of its sort on the planet. If you require steel and other metal fabrication this is not what you need. But if you are building molds and limited run plastic products this is for you. The resolution is of very fine grain. The resultant products are far superior to similar priced units or even units 3 and 10 times the price. The machine completely dissembled and is shipped in this form but it is easy to rebuild. If you order one, coming from the UK, it will cost you about $800.00 landed. There will of course be duty charges but they limited as assembly is required. The other great things about this product is that the software that runs it is totally Open Source and is continually being improved and refined. Even the design of the product is Open Source and once you have received you original printer you can download a full set of 3D component files, from the site and simply build your own 3D printer again and again. The only pieces that can not be replicated are the metal pieces but they were originally choosen so they are simple and can be easily sourced from virtually any hardware store. These units are of course in super high demand and if you order one today your order would not be received for three to four months. One friend ordered one unit, in late May but is not expecting his printer until the end of August. So for all you modeller or fabricators check this out. Jim _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From carbonnb at gmail.com Wed Jun 13 12:33:54 2012 From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 13:33:54 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] Word for Mac Templaes In-Reply-To: <4AA93BADD635400E9DFBA4F57B3BC6B5@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4FD89A44.1000100@torchlake.com> <4AA93BADD635400E9DFBA4F57B3BC6B5@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Thanks. I was afraid of that. I have a Mac and I created the original templates a decade ago (holy crap I've been doing this too long), that's why I think I'm going to have to rebrand all of our template. B On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 10:52 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > I will concur. It has been a few years since I tried to migrate anything to > Mac and I would suspect the process should be easier now. > > Maybe someone who actually has a Mac could answer that question seeing there > is a Mac and PC word versions out there. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tina Norris > Fields > Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2012 6:49 AM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Word for Mac Templaes > > Hi Bryan, > > I did that a few years ago for a client, with somewhat disappointing > results. ?In particular, the placement of elements did not remain > correct, as I recall. ?I was working on a letterhead, which included a > logo and other stuff. ?The logo wouldn't stay where I put it when I > brought the template from my WinXP, Office 2003 environment and put it > in his Max OS(9 or 10 - not sure) environment. ?Oh, yes, I embedded a > font, and that didn't work, either. ?Haven't tried it since then. > > T > > Tina Norris Fields > tinanfields at torchlake.com > 231-322-2787 > > > On 6/13/2012 8:41 AM, Bryan Carbonnell wrote: >> Has anyone gone through the process of converting a template built in >> Word 2000/2007 and converted it to be used in Word 2011 for Mac? >> >> The template includes styles, custom button bars, code. The whole 9 yards. >> >> Any pointers, gotchas, would be greatly appreciated. >> >> I have a feeling I'm going to need to go down that road shortly, so I >> want to be prepared. >> >> Thanks, >> > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Jun 15 14:48:57 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 12:48:57 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] Graphics In-Reply-To: References: <4FD89A44.1000100@torchlake.com><4AA93BADD635400E9DFBA4F57B3BC6B5@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <54BFEF37141A476FAD7EA3BD59F73777@creativesystemdesigns.com> For those of you who may be working on high end graphic files, Autodesk, Mya, XSI etc there is a database product for you called Titan. http://thinkaurelius.github.com/titan/ Jim From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Jun 15 17:48:45 2012 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2012 08:48:45 +1000 Subject: [dba-Tech] Graphics In-Reply-To: <54BFEF37141A476FAD7EA3BD59F73777@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: , , <54BFEF37141A476FAD7EA3BD59F73777@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4FDBBBCD.9395.4887BFA@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> You are under a misapprehension. graph <> graphic Titan is a "graph database" not a "graphics database", two totally different things. It's just another NoSQL data system using the node/edge paradigm mathematical graph theory (not trigonometry). It has nothing to with with "graphic files" There's a good primer here: http://adam.heroku.com/past/2010/3/15/graph_databases/ -- Stuart On 15 Jun 2012 at 12:48, Jim Lawrence wrote: > For those of you who may be working on high end graphic files, Autodesk, > Mya, XSI etc there is a database product for you called Titan. > > http://thinkaurelius.github.com/titan/ > > Jim > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Stuart McLachlan Ph: +675 340 4392 Mob: +675 7100 2028 Web: http://www.lexacorp.com.pg From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Jun 16 16:58:57 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2012 14:58:57 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] Graphics In-Reply-To: <4FDBBBCD.9395.4887BFA@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , , <54BFEF37141A476FAD7EA3BD59F73777@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4FDBBBCD.9395.4887BFA@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Thanks for that Stuart. I am more familiar with a couple of local companies who specialize in translating and storing compressed vector based data in databases such as Oracle, MSSQL and PostgreSQL. There products are very expensive. Esri Canada https://www.esri.ca/ I am familiar with all the high end graphic applications and assumed that was what was being described. The original linked site is hardly illustrative. So it is a data analysis tool...sounds useful but not a tool I will be using in the near future. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Friday, June 15, 2012 3:49 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Graphics You are under a misapprehension. graph <> graphic Titan is a "graph database" not a "graphics database", two totally different things. It's just another NoSQL data system using the node/edge paradigm mathematical graph theory (not trigonometry). It has nothing to with with "graphic files" There's a good primer here: http://adam.heroku.com/past/2010/3/15/graph_databases/ -- Stuart On 15 Jun 2012 at 12:48, Jim Lawrence wrote: > For those of you who may be working on high end graphic files, Autodesk, > Mya, XSI etc there is a database product for you called Titan. > > http://thinkaurelius.github.com/titan/ > > Jim > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Stuart McLachlan Ph: +675 340 4392 Mob: +675 7100 2028 Web: http://www.lexacorp.com.pg _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Sun Jun 17 11:46:01 2012 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 12:46:01 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] Excel password question Message-ID: <08B5C9BB0AA145529578742F65C23DDF@SusanHarkins> >From a reader: "One of my users has a parent workbook and she automatically updates it monthly with data from linked child workbooks. She recently upgraded to Excel 2007 and now, when she opens the parent, it wants her to enter the password for each of the children. I don't have much experience with Excel VBA, and was wondering if this would take an Act of God to write VBA code to automatically send the password for each of the children as it tried to access them? FYI, the passwords are all identical." No clue -- haven't done any research yet, but this sounds like it might have a simple setting cure rather than requiring VBA. Any thoughts? Susan H. From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Jun 18 10:18:20 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 08:18:20 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] Programming on Pads and Smartphones In-Reply-To: <08B5C9BB0AA145529578742F65C23DDF@SusanHarkins> References: <08B5C9BB0AA145529578742F65C23DDF@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: For those of you who are starting to program on Pads and Smartphones here is an application that will allow you to use your .Net skills. The program is written Mono so you can use it on Linux/Android, iOS and Windows. Though I have not looked at it in depth it does look very interesting and worthy of further investigation. http://xamarin.com/ Jim From djkr at msn.com Mon Jun 18 19:21:19 2012 From: djkr at msn.com (DJK (John) Robinson) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 01:21:19 +0100 Subject: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The 'mystery' launch of the MS's new Surface tablet has just ended. Looks interesting - tablet with stand and keyboard. Thin, VaporMag, but only USB2. more than one model: Win8 or RT. Nice design, though no info on battery life. Think I might want one ... John From bheid at sc.rr.com Mon Jun 18 21:32:27 2012 From: bheid at sc.rr.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 22:32:27 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001b01cd4dc3$c4e62130$4eb26390$@sc.rr.com> It looks like the pro model has USB 3 on it and maybe a display port. Is interesting though. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DJK (John) Robinson Sent: Monday, June 18, 2012 8:21 PM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range The 'mystery' launch of the MS's new Surface tablet has just ended. Looks interesting - tablet with stand and keyboard. Thin, VaporMag, but only USB2. more than one model: Win8 or RT. Nice design, though no info on battery life. Think I might want one ... John _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Tue Jun 19 01:18:22 2012 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 08:18:22 +0200 Subject: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range Message-ID: Very neat: http://www.bgr.com/nggallery/page-320/album-all/gallery-529/ I haven't seen that style of an integrated keyboard before. This way the unit actually may be useful for real work. /gustav >>> bheid at sc.rr.com 19-06-12 4:32 >>> It looks like the pro model has USB 3 on it and maybe a display port. Is interesting though. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DJK (John) Robinson Sent: Monday, June 18, 2012 8:21 PM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range The 'mystery' launch of the MS's new Surface tablet has just ended. Looks interesting - tablet with stand and keyboard. Thin, VaporMag, but only USB2. more than one model: Win8 or RT. Nice design, though no info on battery life. Think I might want one ... John From hans.andersen at phulse.com Tue Jun 19 03:08:16 2012 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 01:08:16 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Keyboards like this have existed for quite some time for tablets (even android tablets). Not sure whats so ground breaking about this? Hans On 2012-06-18, at 11:18 PM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Very neat: > > http://www.bgr.com/nggallery/page-320/album-all/gallery-529/ > > I haven't seen that style of an integrated keyboard before. This way the unit actually may be useful for real work. > > /gustav > > >>>> bheid at sc.rr.com 19-06-12 4:32 >>> > It looks like the pro model has USB 3 on it and maybe a display port. > > Is interesting though. > > Bobby > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DJK (John) > Robinson > Sent: Monday, June 18, 2012 8:21 PM > To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' > Subject: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range > > The 'mystery' launch of the MS's new Surface tablet has just ended. > > Looks interesting - tablet with stand and keyboard. Thin, VaporMag, but > only USB2. more than one model: Win8 or RT. > Nice design, though no info on battery life. > > Think I might want one ... > > John > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Tue Jun 19 04:40:12 2012 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 11:40:12 +0200 Subject: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range Message-ID: Official site: http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en/us/default.aspx I want one. /gustav >>> gustav at cactus.dk 19-06-12 8:18 >>> Very neat: http://www.bgr.com/nggallery/page-320/album-all/gallery-529/ I haven't seen that style of an integrated keyboard before. This way the unit actually may be useful for real work. /gustav >>> bheid at sc.rr.com 19-06-12 4:32 >>> It looks like the pro model has USB 3 on it and maybe a display port. Is interesting though. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DJK (John) Robinson Sent: Monday, June 18, 2012 8:21 PM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range The 'mystery' launch of the MS's new Surface tablet has just ended. Looks interesting - tablet with stand and keyboard. Thin, VaporMag, but only USB2. more than one model: Win8 or RT. Nice design, though no info on battery life. Think I might want one ... John _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Jun 19 06:44:38 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 04:44:38 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] 5 usb tools for support techs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I would be hard pressed to find a better set of tools to carry with me on a USB stick. http://tinyurl.com/cby27uf Any other recommendation? Jim From ssharkins at gmail.com Tue Jun 19 10:53:53 2012 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 11:53:53 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] Excel ? from reader Message-ID: Excel file (I'll call it "parent"). When opened, some cells are linked to other Excel files, I'll call "child 1" and "child 2". Actually, 140 of them. Parent has a cell, let's say C15. It contains: ='C:\[child1.xls]Sheet1'!$a15 Child (children) are all password-protected. These were all created under Excel 2003, all worked fine. Parent updated from children when parent was opened, never asked for password. Upgraded to Excel 2007, now opening parent prompts for a password for each child it tries to update from! 140 children.140 passwords. Any idea what happened? Or how to fix? ===========Beats me -- anyone had this kind of experience after upgrading? Susan H. From peter.brawley at earthlink.net Tue Jun 19 11:37:54 2012 From: peter.brawley at earthlink.net (Peter Brawley) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 11:37:54 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4FE0AAE2.8000308@earthlink.net> On 2012-06-19 4:40 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Official site: > > http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en/us/default.aspx > > I want one. Why, when you can have an android with all those open source and free or nearly free widgets & tools? PB ----- > > /gustav > > >>>> gustav at cactus.dk 19-06-12 8:18>>> > Very neat: > > http://www.bgr.com/nggallery/page-320/album-all/gallery-529/ > > I haven't seen that style of an integrated keyboard before. This way the unit actually may be useful for real work. > > /gustav > > >>>> bheid at sc.rr.com 19-06-12 4:32>>> > It looks like the pro model has USB 3 on it and maybe a display port. > > Is interesting though. > > Bobby > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DJK (John) > Robinson > Sent: Monday, June 18, 2012 8:21 PM > To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' > Subject: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range > > The 'mystery' launch of the MS's new Surface tablet has just ended. > > Looks interesting - tablet with stand and keyboard. Thin, VaporMag, but > only USB2. more than one model: Win8 or RT. > Nice design, though no info on battery life. > > Think I might want one ... > > John > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From gustav at cactus.dk Tue Jun 19 12:06:15 2012 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 19:06:15 +0200 Subject: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range Message-ID: Hi Peter Because it will run (my) Windows applications! That turns the machine from a toy to a tool. What a difference. And with the beautiful Metro interface when you use it in tablet mode. Besides, it is even neater than an iPad. I mailed the pictures to my wife with minimum comments (busy with other tasks) but she ordered her copy right away. /gustav >>> peter.brawley at earthlink.net 19-06-12 18:37 >>> On 2012-06-19 4:40 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Official site: > > http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en/us/default.aspx > > I want one. Why, when you can have an android with all those open source and free or nearly free widgets & tools? PB ----- > > /gustav > > >>>> gustav at cactus.dk 19-06-12 8:18>>> > Very neat: > > http://www.bgr.com/nggallery/page-320/album-all/gallery-529/ > > I haven't seen that style of an integrated keyboard before. This way the unit actually may be useful for real work. > > /gustav > > >>>> bheid at sc.rr.com 19-06-12 4:32>>> > It looks like the pro model has USB 3 on it and maybe a display port. > > Is interesting though. > > Bobby > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DJK (John) > Robinson > Sent: Monday, June 18, 2012 8:21 PM > To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' > Subject: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range > > The 'mystery' launch of the MS's new Surface tablet has just ended. > > Looks interesting - tablet with stand and keyboard. Thin, VaporMag, but > only USB2. more than one model: Win8 or RT. > Nice design, though no info on battery life. > > Think I might want one ... > > John From hans.andersen at phulse.com Tue Jun 19 12:20:32 2012 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 10:20:32 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9CB04EC7-6233-4AD1-BCE1-BB376FE80AFA@phulse.com> > Because it will run (my) Windows applications! Not if you buy the Windows RT ARM version. You will have to buy the bulkier Intel version, which cost $700-1000 from what I understand. At that price, you might as well just buy a nice laptop or net book in my opinion. Or 2 iPads/Androids with a keyboard attachment. Best regards, Hans-Christian Andersen On 19 Jun 2012, at 10:06, "Gustav Brock" wrote: > Hi Peter > > Because it will run (my) Windows applications! > > That turns the machine from a toy to a tool. What a difference. And with the beautiful Metro interface when you use it in tablet mode. > > Besides, it is even neater than an iPad. I mailed the pictures to my wife with minimum comments (busy with other tasks) but she ordered her copy right away. > > /gustav > > >>>> peter.brawley at earthlink.net 19-06-12 18:37 >>> > On 2012-06-19 4:40 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: >> Official site: >> >> http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en/us/default.aspx >> >> I want one. > > Why, when you can have an android with all those open source and free or > nearly free widgets & tools? > > PB > > ----- > >> >> /gustav >> >> >>>>> gustav at cactus.dk 19-06-12 8:18>>> >> Very neat: >> >> http://www.bgr.com/nggallery/page-320/album-all/gallery-529/ >> >> I haven't seen that style of an integrated keyboard before. This way the unit actually may be useful for real work. >> >> /gustav >> >> >>>>> bheid at sc.rr.com 19-06-12 4:32>>> >> It looks like the pro model has USB 3 on it and maybe a display port. >> >> Is interesting though. >> >> Bobby >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DJK (John) >> Robinson >> Sent: Monday, June 18, 2012 8:21 PM >> To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' >> Subject: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range >> >> The 'mystery' launch of the MS's new Surface tablet has just ended. >> >> Looks interesting - tablet with stand and keyboard. Thin, VaporMag, but >> only USB2. more than one model: Win8 or RT. >> Nice design, though no info on battery life. >> >> Think I might want one ... >> >> John > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From peter.brawley at earthlink.net Tue Jun 19 16:01:20 2012 From: peter.brawley at earthlink.net (Peter Brawley) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 16:01:20 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4FE0E8A0.2030401@earthlink.net> On 2012-06-19 12:06 PM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Peter > > Because it will run (my) Windows applications! You love Micro$oft closed-source bloatware so much? Astonishing. > > That turns the machine from a toy to a tool. What a difference. And with the beautiful Metro interface when you use it in tablet mode. What would be the advantage of that over a light netbook? PB ----- > > Besides, it is even neater than an iPad. I mailed the pictures to my wife with minimum comments (busy with other tasks) but she ordered her copy right away. > > /gustav > > >>>> peter.brawley at earthlink.net 19-06-12 18:37>>> > On 2012-06-19 4:40 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: >> Official site: >> >> http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en/us/default.aspx >> >> I want one. > Why, when you can have an android with all those open source and free or > nearly free widgets& tools? > > PB > > ----- > >> /gustav >> >> >>>>> gustav at cactus.dk 19-06-12 8:18>>> >> Very neat: >> >> http://www.bgr.com/nggallery/page-320/album-all/gallery-529/ >> >> I haven't seen that style of an integrated keyboard before. This way the unit actually may be useful for real work. >> >> /gustav >> >> >>>>> bheid at sc.rr.com 19-06-12 4:32>>> >> It looks like the pro model has USB 3 on it and maybe a display port. >> >> Is interesting though. >> >> Bobby >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DJK (John) >> Robinson >> Sent: Monday, June 18, 2012 8:21 PM >> To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' >> Subject: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range >> >> The 'mystery' launch of the MS's new Surface tablet has just ended. >> >> Looks interesting - tablet with stand and keyboard. Thin, VaporMag, but >> only USB2. more than one model: Win8 or RT. >> Nice design, though no info on battery life. >> >> Think I might want one ... >> >> John > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Jun 19 17:25:57 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 15:25:57 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range In-Reply-To: <9CB04EC7-6233-4AD1-BCE1-BB376FE80AFA@phulse.com> References: <9CB04EC7-6233-4AD1-BCE1-BB376FE80AFA@phulse.com> Message-ID: Not that I disagree with you at all but I have been using the very same argument with regards to MAC equipment. Why not just buy a nice laptop that performs as good or better at half the price? ;-) Is looks and having the "right" gear that important?...Isn't development production more important? Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian Andersen Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 10:21 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range > Because it will run (my) Windows applications! Not if you buy the Windows RT ARM version. You will have to buy the bulkier Intel version, which cost $700-1000 from what I understand. At that price, you might as well just buy a nice laptop or net book in my opinion. Or 2 iPads/Androids with a keyboard attachment. Best regards, Hans-Christian Andersen On 19 Jun 2012, at 10:06, "Gustav Brock" wrote: > Hi Peter > > Because it will run (my) Windows applications! > > That turns the machine from a toy to a tool. What a difference. And with the beautiful Metro interface when you use it in tablet mode. > > Besides, it is even neater than an iPad. I mailed the pictures to my wife with minimum comments (busy with other tasks) but she ordered her copy right away. > > /gustav > > >>>> peter.brawley at earthlink.net 19-06-12 18:37 >>> > On 2012-06-19 4:40 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: >> Official site: >> >> http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en/us/default.aspx >> >> I want one. > > Why, when you can have an android with all those open source and free or > nearly free widgets & tools? > > PB > > ----- > >> >> /gustav >> >> >>>>> gustav at cactus.dk 19-06-12 8:18>>> >> Very neat: >> >> http://www.bgr.com/nggallery/page-320/album-all/gallery-529/ >> >> I haven't seen that style of an integrated keyboard before. This way the unit actually may be useful for real work. >> >> /gustav >> >> >>>>> bheid at sc.rr.com 19-06-12 4:32>>> >> It looks like the pro model has USB 3 on it and maybe a display port. >> >> Is interesting though. >> >> Bobby >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DJK (John) >> Robinson >> Sent: Monday, June 18, 2012 8:21 PM >> To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' >> Subject: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range >> >> The 'mystery' launch of the MS's new Surface tablet has just ended. >> >> Looks interesting - tablet with stand and keyboard. Thin, VaporMag, but >> only USB2. more than one model: Win8 or RT. >> Nice design, though no info on battery life. >> >> Think I might want one ... >> >> John > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From hans.andersen at phulse.com Tue Jun 19 18:00:01 2012 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 16:00:01 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range In-Reply-To: References: <9CB04EC7-6233-4AD1-BCE1-BB376FE80AFA@phulse.com> Message-ID: <612321B9-B8AE-4025-B541-998A80397DB3@phulse.com> - Hans Sent from my iPhone On 2012-06-19, at 3:25 PM, "Jim Lawrence" wrote: > Not that I disagree with you at all but I have been using the very same > argument with regards to MAC equipment. Why not just buy a nice laptop that > performs as good or better at half the price? ;-) > > Is looks and having the "right" gear that important?...Isn't development > production more important? > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian > Andersen > Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 10:21 AM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range > >> Because it will run (my) Windows applications! > > Not if you buy the Windows RT ARM version. You will have to buy the bulkier > Intel version, which cost $700-1000 from what I understand. At that price, > you might as well just buy a nice laptop or net book in my opinion. Or 2 > iPads/Androids with a keyboard attachment. > > Best regards, > Hans-Christian Andersen > > > On 19 Jun 2012, at 10:06, "Gustav Brock" wrote: > >> Hi Peter >> >> Because it will run (my) Windows applications! >> >> That turns the machine from a toy to a tool. What a difference. And with > the beautiful Metro interface when you use it in tablet mode. >> >> Besides, it is even neater than an iPad. I mailed the pictures to my wife > with minimum comments (busy with other tasks) but she ordered her copy right > away. >> >> /gustav >> >> >>>>> peter.brawley at earthlink.net 19-06-12 18:37 >>> >> On 2012-06-19 4:40 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: >>> Official site: >>> >>> http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en/us/default.aspx >>> >>> I want one. >> >> Why, when you can have an android with all those open source and free or >> nearly free widgets & tools? >> >> PB >> >> ----- >> >>> >>> /gustav >>> >>> >>>>>> gustav at cactus.dk 19-06-12 8:18>>> >>> Very neat: >>> >>> http://www.bgr.com/nggallery/page-320/album-all/gallery-529/ >>> >>> I haven't seen that style of an integrated keyboard before. This way the > unit actually may be useful for real work. >>> >>> /gustav >>> >>> >>>>>> bheid at sc.rr.com 19-06-12 4:32>>> >>> It looks like the pro model has USB 3 on it and maybe a display port. >>> >>> Is interesting though. >>> >>> Bobby >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DJK (John) >>> Robinson >>> Sent: Monday, June 18, 2012 8:21 PM >>> To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' >>> Subject: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range >>> >>> The 'mystery' launch of the MS's new Surface tablet has just ended. >>> >>> Looks interesting - tablet with stand and keyboard. Thin, VaporMag, but >>> only USB2. more than one model: Win8 or RT. >>> Nice design, though no info on battery life. >>> >>> Think I might want one ... >>> >>> John >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From djkr at msn.com Tue Jun 19 18:09:52 2012 From: djkr at msn.com (DJK (John) Robinson) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 00:09:52 +0100 Subject: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range In-Reply-To: <612321B9-B8AE-4025-B541-998A80397DB3@phulse.com> Message-ID: - John Sent from my non-proprietary PC with *no* free advertising! -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian Andersen Sent: 20 June 2012 00:00 To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range - Hans Sent from my iPhone On 2012-06-19, at 3:25 PM, "Jim Lawrence" wrote: > Not that I disagree with you at all but I have been using the very > same argument with regards to MAC equipment. Why not just buy a nice > laptop that performs as good or better at half the price? ;-) > > Is looks and having the "right" gear that important?...Isn't > development production more important? > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Hans-Christian Andersen > Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 10:21 AM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range > >> Because it will run (my) Windows applications! > > Not if you buy the Windows RT ARM version. You will have to buy the > bulkier Intel version, which cost $700-1000 from what I understand. At > that price, you might as well just buy a nice laptop or net book in my > opinion. Or 2 iPads/Androids with a keyboard attachment. > > Best regards, > Hans-Christian Andersen > > > On 19 Jun 2012, at 10:06, "Gustav Brock" wrote: > >> Hi Peter >> >> Because it will run (my) Windows applications! >> >> That turns the machine from a toy to a tool. What a difference. And >> with > the beautiful Metro interface when you use it in tablet mode. >> >> Besides, it is even neater than an iPad. I mailed the pictures to my >> wife > with minimum comments (busy with other tasks) but she ordered her copy > right away. >> >> /gustav >> >> >>>>> peter.brawley at earthlink.net 19-06-12 18:37 >>> >> On 2012-06-19 4:40 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: >>> Official site: >>> >>> http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en/us/default.aspx >>> >>> I want one. >> >> Why, when you can have an android with all those open source and free >> or >> nearly free widgets & tools? >> >> PB >> >> ----- >> >>> >>> /gustav >>> >>> >>>>>> gustav at cactus.dk 19-06-12 8:18>>> >>> Very neat: >>> >>> http://www.bgr.com/nggallery/page-320/album-all/gallery-529/ >>> >>> I haven't seen that style of an integrated keyboard before. This way >>> the > unit actually may be useful for real work. >>> >>> /gustav >>> >>> >>>>>> bheid at sc.rr.com 19-06-12 4:32>>> >>> It looks like the pro model has USB 3 on it and maybe a display >>> port. >>> >>> Is interesting though. >>> >>> Bobby >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DJK >>> (John) Robinson >>> Sent: Monday, June 18, 2012 8:21 PM >>> To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' >>> Subject: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range >>> >>> The 'mystery' launch of the MS's new Surface tablet has just ended. >>> >>> Looks interesting - tablet with stand and keyboard. Thin, VaporMag, >>> but only USB2. more than one model: Win8 or RT. Nice design, >>> though no info on battery life. >>> >>> Think I might want one ... >>> >>> John >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From hans.andersen at phulse.com Tue Jun 19 19:48:27 2012 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 17:48:27 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range In-Reply-To: References: <9CB04EC7-6233-4AD1-BCE1-BB376FE80AFA@phulse.com> Message-ID: I would rather not indulge any irrational and excessive dislike for Apple products. I'd rather we talk like serious professionals who have a curiosity with all things technology, rather than be stuck in a tribal mindset. The question I was wondering is whether it makes sense to spend that much money on a tablet when cheaper, high quality alternatives exist that satisfy whatever your needs are - whether it be a portable development platform (laptop) or a handy portable device for general email/chat/web surfing/content consumption etc (tablet). - Hans Sent from my iPhone On 2012-06-19, at 3:25 PM, "Jim Lawrence" wrote: > Not that I disagree with you at all but I have been using the very same > argument with regards to MAC equipment. Why not just buy a nice laptop that > performs as good or better at half the price? ;-) > > Is looks and having the "right" gear that important?...Isn't development > production more important? > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian > Andersen > Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 10:21 AM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range > >> Because it will run (my) Windows applications! > > Not if you buy the Windows RT ARM version. You will have to buy the bulkier > Intel version, which cost $700-1000 from what I understand. At that price, > you might as well just buy a nice laptop or net book in my opinion. Or 2 > iPads/Androids with a keyboard attachment. > > Best regards, > Hans-Christian Andersen > > > On 19 Jun 2012, at 10:06, "Gustav Brock" wrote: > >> Hi Peter >> >> Because it will run (my) Windows applications! >> >> That turns the machine from a toy to a tool. What a difference. And with > the beautiful Metro interface when you use it in tablet mode. >> >> Besides, it is even neater than an iPad. I mailed the pictures to my wife > with minimum comments (busy with other tasks) but she ordered her copy right > away. >> >> /gustav >> >> >>>>> peter.brawley at earthlink.net 19-06-12 18:37 >>> >> On 2012-06-19 4:40 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: >>> Official site: >>> >>> http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en/us/default.aspx >>> >>> I want one. >> >> Why, when you can have an android with all those open source and free or >> nearly free widgets & tools? >> >> PB >> >> ----- >> >>> >>> /gustav >>> >>> >>>>>> gustav at cactus.dk 19-06-12 8:18>>> >>> Very neat: >>> >>> http://www.bgr.com/nggallery/page-320/album-all/gallery-529/ >>> >>> I haven't seen that style of an integrated keyboard before. This way the > unit actually may be useful for real work. >>> >>> /gustav >>> >>> >>>>>> bheid at sc.rr.com 19-06-12 4:32>>> >>> It looks like the pro model has USB 3 on it and maybe a display port. >>> >>> Is interesting though. >>> >>> Bobby >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DJK (John) >>> Robinson >>> Sent: Monday, June 18, 2012 8:21 PM >>> To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' >>> Subject: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range >>> >>> The 'mystery' launch of the MS's new Surface tablet has just ended. >>> >>> Looks interesting - tablet with stand and keyboard. Thin, VaporMag, but >>> only USB2. more than one model: Win8 or RT. >>> Nice design, though no info on battery life. >>> >>> Think I might want one ... >>> >>> John >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Jun 19 22:55:56 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 20:55:56 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range In-Reply-To: References: <9CB04EC7-6233-4AD1-BCE1-BB376FE80AFA@phulse.com> Message-ID: <5F9B51570B7E4804B48A50DD55C7C490@creativesystemdesigns.com> I thought we were discussing products strictly on their costs but because the manufactures are so linked it is difficult to separate them from the topic. My focus was only on one point, dollar and cents and nothing to do with " tribal mindset " or any other side issues. As soon as you start adding a keyboard the product immediately moves into the world of laptops and all the functionality that they provide or in this case, imply they will provide. Pads of all kinds have their place and they do what they do very well but they are not a business or development machine, plain and simple and it is a waste of time to make them so. I think MS is trying to make a pseudo pad/laptop/business machine and I have a hard time getting my head around a product like high-performance racing dump truck. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian Andersen Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 5:48 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range I would rather not indulge any irrational and excessive dislike for Apple products. I'd rather we talk like serious professionals who have a curiosity with all things technology, rather than be stuck in a tribal mindset. The question I was wondering is whether it makes sense to spend that much money on a tablet when cheaper, high quality alternatives exist that satisfy whatever your needs are - whether it be a portable development platform (laptop) or a handy portable device for general email/chat/web surfing/content consumption etc (tablet). - Hans Sent from my iPhone On 2012-06-19, at 3:25 PM, "Jim Lawrence" wrote: > Not that I disagree with you at all but I have been using the very same > argument with regards to MAC equipment. Why not just buy a nice laptop that > performs as good or better at half the price? ;-) > > Is looks and having the "right" gear that important?...Isn't development > production more important? > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian > Andersen > Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 10:21 AM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range > >> Because it will run (my) Windows applications! > > Not if you buy the Windows RT ARM version. You will have to buy the bulkier > Intel version, which cost $700-1000 from what I understand. At that price, > you might as well just buy a nice laptop or net book in my opinion. Or 2 > iPads/Androids with a keyboard attachment. > > Best regards, > Hans-Christian Andersen > > > On 19 Jun 2012, at 10:06, "Gustav Brock" wrote: > >> Hi Peter >> >> Because it will run (my) Windows applications! >> >> That turns the machine from a toy to a tool. What a difference. And with > the beautiful Metro interface when you use it in tablet mode. >> >> Besides, it is even neater than an iPad. I mailed the pictures to my wife > with minimum comments (busy with other tasks) but she ordered her copy right > away. >> >> /gustav >> >> >>>>> peter.brawley at earthlink.net 19-06-12 18:37 >>> >> On 2012-06-19 4:40 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: >>> Official site: >>> >>> http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en/us/default.aspx >>> >>> I want one. >> >> Why, when you can have an android with all those open source and free or >> nearly free widgets & tools? >> >> PB >> >> ----- >> >>> >>> /gustav >>> >>> >>>>>> gustav at cactus.dk 19-06-12 8:18>>> >>> Very neat: >>> >>> http://www.bgr.com/nggallery/page-320/album-all/gallery-529/ >>> >>> I haven't seen that style of an integrated keyboard before. This way the > unit actually may be useful for real work. >>> >>> /gustav >>> >>> >>>>>> bheid at sc.rr.com 19-06-12 4:32>>> >>> It looks like the pro model has USB 3 on it and maybe a display port. >>> >>> Is interesting though. >>> >>> Bobby >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DJK (John) >>> Robinson >>> Sent: Monday, June 18, 2012 8:21 PM >>> To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' >>> Subject: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range >>> >>> The 'mystery' launch of the MS's new Surface tablet has just ended. >>> >>> Looks interesting - tablet with stand and keyboard. Thin, VaporMag, but >>> only USB2. more than one model: Win8 or RT. >>> Nice design, though no info on battery life. >>> >>> Think I might want one ... >>> >>> John >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From hans.andersen at phulse.com Tue Jun 19 23:39:01 2012 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 21:39:01 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range In-Reply-To: <121C4241-F649-463D-B937-2483231ED606@phulse.com> References: <9CB04EC7-6233-4AD1-BCE1-BB376FE80AFA@phulse.com> <5F9B51570B7E4804B48A50DD55C7C490@creativesystemdesigns.com> <121C4241-F649-463D-B937-2483231ED606@phulse.com> Message-ID: <8833F205-0999-47E2-87B3-AB70BFE35DCA@phulse.com> A tablet of any sort, keyboard or not, surface or alternative, is always going to be a very poor environment for software development. The hardware isn't going to be powerful enough to do serious programming (ie. running Visual Studio or SQL Server) and from what I can tell from the pictures, the keyboard was designed with style in mind rather than function - which is fine for casual use, but I imagine any serious developer will find it frustrating, perhaps to the same extent as with a tiny netbooks keyboard and why thats not a good platform for software development. If you have the money to blow and you are a huge Microsoft fan, then this looks to be a decent tablet and a good attempt by MS, but I honestly would not call it anywhere near the best that is out there and there is nothing ground breaking here. There are plenty of android tablets out there that are pretty good, if an ipad is not your thing and they all have really cool keyboard addons. I am only puzzled why MS let the price be so high, because this is going to be a major sticking point for consumers and when faced with a choice of Windows RT and an iPad or any Android tablet, I think any consumer would go for Android/iPad hands down, because that is what everyone else is using and they have a much more developed eco-system. This is the same reason why Windows Phone 7 is struggling to even make a dent in the mobile market ( ie. its in the 'Other' category meaning it only takes a portion of the 4.8% in this category - from source: http://www.slashgear.com/android-and-ios-swallow-global-smart-device-market-19234683/ ). Tablets are not development platforms, that's pretty obvious and you'd want a laptop or desktop for that sort of stuff. Businesses have use for tablets, but I guess not in the way you are thinking. I see a lot of businesses switching their POS clients with ipads or using it for conferences and meetings. It makes sense, but if you haven't ever even used one, then I can understand why its a bit hard to imagine. Hans > > > On 2012-06-19, at 8:55 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > >> I thought we were discussing products strictly on their costs but because >> the manufactures are so linked it is difficult to separate them from the >> topic. My focus was only on one point, dollar and cents and nothing to do >> with " tribal mindset " or any other side issues. >> >> As soon as you start adding a keyboard the product immediately moves into >> the world of laptops and all the functionality that they provide or in this >> case, imply they will provide. >> >> Pads of all kinds have their place and they do what they do very well but >> they are not a business or development machine, plain and simple and it is >> a waste of time to make them so. >> >> I think MS is trying to make a pseudo pad/laptop/business machine and I have >> a hard time getting my head around a product like high-performance racing >> dump truck. ;-) >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian >> Andersen >> Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 5:48 PM >> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues >> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range >> >> I would rather not indulge any irrational and excessive dislike for Apple >> products. I'd rather we talk like serious professionals who have a curiosity >> with all things technology, rather than be stuck in a tribal mindset. >> >> The question I was wondering is whether it makes sense to spend that much >> money on a tablet when cheaper, high quality alternatives exist that satisfy >> whatever your needs are - whether it be a portable development platform >> (laptop) or a handy portable device for general email/chat/web >> surfing/content consumption etc (tablet). >> >> - Hans >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Jun 20 01:54:08 2012 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:54:08 +0200 Subject: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range Message-ID: Hi Peter To me a computer without Windows is just a toy for browsing and so. Very limited. A netbook misses the touch interface and doesn't fill where a tablet does. /gustav >>> peter.brawley at earthlink.net 19-06-12 23:01 >>> On 2012-06-19 12:06 PM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Peter > > Because it will run (my) Windows applications! You love Micro$oft closed-source bloatware so much? Astonishing. > > That turns the machine from a toy to a tool. What a difference. And with the beautiful Metro interface when you use it in tablet mode. What would be the advantage of that over a light netbook? PB ----- > > Besides, it is even neater than an iPad. I mailed the pictures to my wife with minimum comments (busy with other tasks) but she ordered her copy right away. > > /gustav > > >>>> peter.brawley at earthlink.net 19-06-12 18:37>>> > On 2012-06-19 4:40 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: >> Official site: >> >> http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en/us/default.aspx >> >> I want one. > Why, when you can have an android with all those open source and free or > nearly free widgets& tools? > > PB > > ----- > >> /gustav >> >> >>>>> gustav at cactus.dk 19-06-12 8:18>>> >> Very neat: >> >> http://www.bgr.com/nggallery/page-320/album-all/gallery-529/ >> >> I haven't seen that style of an integrated keyboard before. This way the unit actually may be useful for real work. >> >> /gustav From hans.andersen at phulse.com Wed Jun 20 01:54:16 2012 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 23:54:16 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <075040FD-C6E8-4F6C-99A8-6DFE38A7A4E1@phulse.com> I think this is a fair answer and it goes both ways depending on who you ask. I think it makes sense for you, since you are so heavily invested in Windows. I'm heavily invested in Linux, so anything running Windows would also be a toy to me as well. Maybe competition and economies of scale will bring the price down eventually, who knows. Best regards, Hans-Christian Andersen On 19 Jun 2012, at 23:54, "Gustav Brock" wrote: > Hi Peter > > To me a computer without Windows is just a toy for browsing and so. Very limited. > > A netbook misses the touch interface and doesn't fill where a tablet does. > > /gustav > > >>>> peter.brawley at earthlink.net 19-06-12 23:01 >>> > On 2012-06-19 12:06 PM, Gustav Brock wrote: >> Hi Peter >> >> Because it will run (my) Windows applications! > You love Micro$oft closed-source bloatware so much? Astonishing. >> >> That turns the machine from a toy to a tool. What a difference. And with the beautiful Metro interface when you use it in tablet mode. > > What would be the advantage of that over a light netbook? > > PB > > ----- > >> >> Besides, it is even neater than an iPad. I mailed the pictures to my wife with minimum comments (busy with other tasks) but she ordered her copy right away. >> >> /gustav >> >> >>>>> peter.brawley at earthlink.net 19-06-12 18:37>>> >> On 2012-06-19 4:40 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: >>> Official site: >>> >>> http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en/us/default.aspx >>> >>> I want one. >> Why, when you can have an android with all those open source and free or >> nearly free widgets& tools? >> >> PB >> >> ----- >> >>> /gustav >>> >>> >>>>>> gustav at cactus.dk 19-06-12 8:18>>> >>> Very neat: >>> >>> http://www.bgr.com/nggallery/page-320/album-all/gallery-529/ >>> >>> I haven't seen that style of an integrated keyboard before. This way the unit actually may be useful for real work. >>> >>> /gustav > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Jun 20 02:10:20 2012 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:10:20 +0200 Subject: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range Message-ID: Hi Jim Of course, such a machine wouldn't be my primary machine for development. What's important, however, is the difference between "it can't" (iPad etc.) and "it can with some limitations" (small screen, less than optimum keyboard, etc.). I have an old HP Pavilion zd8000 laptop with 17" screen which I managed to get reinstalled with Windows 7, and with an external mouse it can be used for full day work with Access or Visual Studio. But it's heavy and I wouldn't carry it when I wasn't sure I would have to use it. The Surface tablet will be so light that I can carry it even when it would be likely I wouldn't have to use it, while doubling as a tablet with Metro and the touch interface. /gustav >>> accessd at shaw.ca 20-06-12 0:25 >>> Not that I disagree with you at all but I have been using the very same argument with regards to MAC equipment. Why not just buy a nice laptop that performs as good or better at half the price? ;-) Is looks and having the "right" gear that important?...Isn't development production more important? Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian Andersen Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 10:21 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range > Because it will run (my) Windows applications! Not if you buy the Windows RT ARM version. You will have to buy the bulkier Intel version, which cost $700-1000 from what I understand. At that price, you might as well just buy a nice laptop or net book in my opinion. Or 2 iPads/Androids with a keyboard attachment. Best regards, Hans-Christian Andersen On 19 Jun 2012, at 10:06, "Gustav Brock" wrote: > Hi Peter > > Because it will run (my) Windows applications! > > That turns the machine from a toy to a tool. What a difference. And with the beautiful Metro interface when you use it in tablet mode. > > Besides, it is even neater than an iPad. I mailed the pictures to my wife with minimum comments (busy with other tasks) but she ordered her copy right away. > > /gustav > > >>>> peter.brawley at earthlink.net 19-06-12 18:37 >>> > On 2012-06-19 4:40 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: >> Official site: >> >> http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en/us/default.aspx >> >> I want one. > > Why, when you can have an android with all those open source and free or > nearly free widgets & tools? > > PB > > ----- > >> >> /gustav From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Jun 20 02:24:09 2012 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:24:09 +0200 Subject: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range Message-ID: Hi Hans I can see how people use tablets or pads and I could use one as well. But it would be for casual use and I'm reluctant to spend money just to fill such need. With the Surface machine the picture changes. This will fill my need while doubling as a useful machine for much of my professional work. /gustav >>> hans.andersen at phulse.com 20-06-12 2:48 >>> I would rather not indulge any irrational and excessive dislike for Apple products. I'd rather we talk like serious professionals who have a curiosity with all things technology, rather than be stuck in a tribal mindset. The question I was wondering is whether it makes sense to spend that much money on a tablet when cheaper, high quality alternatives exist that satisfy whatever your needs are - whether it be a portable development platform (laptop) or a handy portable device for general email/chat/web surfing/content consumption etc (tablet). - Hans Sent from my iPhone On 2012-06-19, at 3:25 PM, "Jim Lawrence" wrote: > Not that I disagree with you at all but I have been using the very same > argument with regards to MAC equipment. Why not just buy a nice laptop that > performs as good or better at half the price? ;-) > > Is looks and having the "right" gear that important?...Isn't development > production more important? > > Jim From marklbreen at gmail.com Wed Jun 20 02:45:52 2012 From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:45:52 +0100 Subject: [dba-Tech] Graphics In-Reply-To: References: <54BFEF37141A476FAD7EA3BD59F73777@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4FDBBBCD.9395.4887BFA@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Hello Jim, I do not think it is an analysis tool. From my quick read a week, I understood it to be a plain old database, but instead of storing relations, it stores nodes and edges instead of relations. In addition to Stuarts link, I would urge any curious to look at the diagram on Wikiapedia Funny thing, I never heard of Graph databases, or even the word Graph used in this context yet two days ago I opened a software magazine I saw it mentioned. When those things happen, I always wonder did I see that word one hundred times previously but always unconsciously ignored it. Here are two sentences from Wikipedia. "A *graph database* uses graph structures with nodes, edges, and properties to represent and store data. By definition, a graph database is any storage system that provides index-free adjacency. This means that every element contains a direct pointer to its adjacent element and no indexlookups are necessary." "Graph databases are based on graph theory. Graph databases employ nodes, properties, and edges. Nodes are very similar in nature to the objects that object-oriented programmers will be familiar with." So now we all know, it is that old reliable Graph Theroy. Mark On 16 June 2012 22:58, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Thanks for that Stuart. > > I am more familiar with a couple of local companies who specialize in > translating and storing compressed vector based data in databases such as > Oracle, MSSQL and PostgreSQL. There products are very expensive. > > Esri Canada https://www.esri.ca/ > > I am familiar with all the high end graphic applications and assumed that > was what was being described. The original linked site is hardly > illustrative. > > So it is a data analysis tool...sounds useful but not a tool I will be > using > in the near future. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > Sent: Friday, June 15, 2012 3:49 PM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Graphics > > You are under a misapprehension. graph <> graphic > > Titan is a "graph database" not a "graphics database", two totally > different > things. > > It's just another NoSQL data system using the node/edge paradigm > mathematical graph > theory (not trigonometry). > > It has nothing to with with "graphic files" > > > There's a good primer here: > http://adam.heroku.com/past/2010/3/15/graph_databases/ > > > -- > Stuart > > On 15 Jun 2012 at 12:48, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > For those of you who may be working on high end graphic files, Autodesk, > > Mya, XSI etc there is a database product for you called Titan. > > > > http://thinkaurelius.github.com/titan/ > > > > Jim > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-Tech mailing list > > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > Stuart McLachlan > > Ph: +675 340 4392 > Mob: +675 7100 2028 > Web: http://www.lexacorp.com.pg > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From marklbreen at gmail.com Wed Jun 20 02:48:53 2012 From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:48:53 +0100 Subject: [dba-Tech] 5 usb tools for support techs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Jim, I recently started using Clonezilla and love it. Mark On 19 June 2012 12:44, Jim Lawrence wrote: > I would be hard pressed to find a better set of tools to carry with me on a > USB stick. > > http://tinyurl.com/cby27uf > > Any other recommendation? > > Jim > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Jun 20 04:41:58 2012 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 11:41:58 +0200 Subject: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range Message-ID: Hi Hans et al It looks like the clever keyboard cover is not "just another keyboard": http://www.techradar.com/news/mobile-computing/tablets/whats-unique-about-microsofts-surface-tablet-touch-cover-1085941 /gustav >>> hans.andersen at phulse.com 20-06-12 6:39 >>> A tablet of any sort, keyboard or not, surface or alternative, is always going to be a very poor environment for software development. The hardware isn't going to be powerful enough to do serious programming (ie. running Visual Studio or SQL Server) and from what I can tell from the pictures, the keyboard was designed with style in mind rather than function - which is fine for casual use, but I imagine any serious developer will find it frustrating, perhaps to the same extent as with a tiny netbooks keyboard and why thats not a good platform for software development. If you have the money to blow and you are a huge Microsoft fan, then this looks to be a decent tablet and a good attempt by MS, but I honestly would not call it anywhere near the best that is out there and there is nothing ground breaking here. There are plenty of android tablets out there that are pretty good, if an ipad is not your thing and they all have really cool keyboard addons. I am only puzzled why MS let the price be so high, because this is going to be a major sticking point for consumers and when faced with a choice of Windows RT and an iPad or any Android tablet, I think any consumer would go for Android/iPad hands down, because that is what everyone else is using and they have a much more developed eco-system. This is the same reason why Windows Phone 7 is struggling to even make a dent in the mobile market ( ie. its in the 'Other' category meaning it only takes a portion of the 4.8% in this category - from source: http://www.slashgear.com/android-and-ios-swallow-global-smart-device-market-19234683/ ). Tablets are not development platforms, that's pretty obvious and you'd want a laptop or desktop for that sort of stuff. Businesses have use for tablets, but I guess not in the way you are thinking. I see a lot of businesses switching their POS clients with ipads or using it for conferences and meetings. It makes sense, but if you haven't ever even used one, then I can understand why its a bit hard to imagine. Hans From hans.andersen at phulse.com Wed Jun 20 04:52:52 2012 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 02:52:52 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5F1BC865-BB6A-4021-897B-DC5045127D1A@phulse.com> Sounds cool. I'd like to reserve judgement until I actually touch one, however, if Microsoft is able to pull this off (and they are generally good at producing good quality peripherals), it would really mean something in my opinion (although, I honestly think a tactile surface interface is where the money is at the moment, and no one has addressed that yet). Hans On 2012-06-20, at 2:41 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Hans et al > > It looks like the clever keyboard cover is not "just another keyboard": > > http://www.techradar.com/news/mobile-computing/tablets/whats-unique-about-microsofts-surface-tablet-touch-cover-1085941 > > /gustav > > >>>> hans.andersen at phulse.com 20-06-12 6:39 >>> > > A tablet of any sort, keyboard or not, surface or alternative, is always going to be a very poor environment for software development. The hardware isn't going to be powerful enough to do serious programming (ie. running Visual Studio or SQL Server) and from what I can tell from the pictures, the keyboard was designed with style in mind rather than function - which is fine for casual use, but I imagine any serious developer will find it frustrating, perhaps to the same extent as with a tiny netbooks keyboard and why thats not a good platform for software development. > > If you have the money to blow and you are a huge Microsoft fan, then this looks to be a decent tablet and a good attempt by MS, but I honestly would not call it anywhere near the best that is out there and there is nothing ground breaking here. There are plenty of android tablets out there that are pretty good, if an ipad is not your thing and they all have really cool keyboard addons. > > I am only puzzled why MS let the price be so high, because this is going to be a major sticking point for consumers and when faced with a choice of Windows RT and an iPad or any Android tablet, I think any consumer would go for Android/iPad hands down, because that is what everyone else is using and they have a much more developed eco-system. This is the same reason why Windows Phone 7 is struggling to even make a dent in the mobile market ( ie. its in the 'Other' category meaning it only takes a portion of the 4.8% in this category - from source: http://www.slashgear.com/android-and-ios-swallow-global-smart-device-market-19234683/ ). > > Tablets are not development platforms, that's pretty obvious and you'd want a laptop or desktop for that sort of stuff. Businesses have use for tablets, but I guess not in the way you are thinking. I see a lot of businesses switching their POS clients with ipads or using it for conferences and meetings. It makes sense, but if you haven't ever even used one, then I can understand why its a bit hard to imagine. > > Hans > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From tinanfields at torchlake.com Wed Jun 20 07:02:57 2012 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:02:57 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] Excel ? from reader In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4FE1BBF1.1000205@torchlake.com> Wow, what a hassle! I'm thinking there must be a programmatic way to provide the child passwords during the opening of the parent. Or, maybe even easier - look into the trust center options set for those files. There is probably a security option checkbox that should be cleared. I'll do a little looking, too. T Tina Norris Fields tinanfields at torchlake.com 231-322-2787 On 6/19/2012 11:53 AM, Susan Harkins wrote: > > > Excel file (I'll call it "parent"). When opened, some cells are linked to other Excel files, I'll call "child 1" and "child 2". Actually, 140 of them. > > > > Parent has a cell, let's say C15. It contains: ='C:\[child1.xls]Sheet1'!$a15 > > > > Child (children) are all password-protected. > > > > These were all created under Excel 2003, all worked fine. Parent updated from children when parent was opened, never asked for password. > > > > Upgraded to Excel 2007, now opening parent prompts for a password for each child it tries to update from! 140 children.140 passwords. > > > > Any idea what happened? Or how to fix? > > > > > > ===========Beats me -- anyone had this kind of experience after upgrading? > > > > Susan H. > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From tinanfields at torchlake.com Wed Jun 20 07:10:26 2012 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:10:26 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] Excel ? from reader In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4FE1BDB2.7080600@torchlake.com> Just looked into my Excel 2010 trust center options page - external content. The choices are: enable all data connections (not recommended) prompt user about data connections disable all data connections and: enable automatic update for all workbook links (not recommended) prompt user on automatic update for workbook links disable automatic update of workbook links In both sections, by default, the "prompt user" option is selected. This is probably the place to make the changes. Hope this helps. T Tina Norris Fields tinanfields at torchlake.com 231-322-2787 On 6/19/2012 11:53 AM, Susan Harkins wrote: > > > Excel file (I'll call it "parent"). When opened, some cells are linked to other Excel files, I'll call "child 1" and "child 2". Actually, 140 of them. > > > > Parent has a cell, let's say C15. It contains: ='C:\[child1.xls]Sheet1'!$a15 > > > > Child (children) are all password-protected. > > > > These were all created under Excel 2003, all worked fine. Parent updated from children when parent was opened, never asked for password. > > > > Upgraded to Excel 2007, now opening parent prompts for a password for each child it tries to update from! 140 children.140 passwords. > > > > Any idea what happened? Or how to fix? > > > > > > ===========Beats me -- anyone had this kind of experience after upgrading? > > > > Susan H. > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From peter.brawley at earthlink.net Wed Jun 20 08:25:11 2012 From: peter.brawley at earthlink.net (Peter Brawley) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:25:11 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4FE1CF37.4080504@earthlink.net> On 2012-06-20 1:54 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Peter > > To me a computer without Windows is just a toy for browsing and so. Very limited. Goodness, try telling that to the many people who work & develop in *Nix. > > A netbook misses the touch interface and doesn't fill where a tablet does. In a working 'puter I've no need for a touch interface. PB ------ > > /gustav > > >>>> peter.brawley at earthlink.net 19-06-12 23:01>>> > On 2012-06-19 12:06 PM, Gustav Brock wrote: >> Hi Peter >> >> Because it will run (my) Windows applications! > You love Micro$oft closed-source bloatware so much? Astonishing. >> That turns the machine from a toy to a tool. What a difference. And with the beautiful Metro interface when you use it in tablet mode. > What would be the advantage of that over a light netbook? > > PB > > ----- > >> Besides, it is even neater than an iPad. I mailed the pictures to my wife with minimum comments (busy with other tasks) but she ordered her copy right away. >> >> /gustav >> >> >>>>> peter.brawley at earthlink.net 19-06-12 18:37>>> >> On 2012-06-19 4:40 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: >>> Official site: >>> >>> http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en/us/default.aspx >>> >>> I want one. >> Why, when you can have an android with all those open source and free or >> nearly free widgets& tools? >> >> PB >> >> ----- >> >>> /gustav >>> >>> >>>>>> gustav at cactus.dk 19-06-12 8:18>>> >>> Very neat: >>> >>> http://www.bgr.com/nggallery/page-320/album-all/gallery-529/ >>> >>> I haven't seen that style of an integrated keyboard before. This way the unit actually may be useful for real work. >>> >>> /gustav > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Jun 20 08:56:31 2012 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 15:56:31 +0200 Subject: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range Message-ID: Hi Peter You have to realise that I'm not one of "the many people who work & develop in *Nix." That makes a huge difference. And you are right, the touch interface is not for development use. However, when I don't use the machine for development, it will allow the machine to be used the convenient and casual way typical for a tablet. /gustav >>> peter.brawley at earthlink.net 20-06-12 15:25 >>> On 2012-06-20 1:54 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Peter > > To me a computer without Windows is just a toy for browsing and so. Very limited. Goodness, try telling that to the many people who work & develop in *Nix. > > A netbook misses the touch interface and doesn't fill where a tablet does. In a working 'puter I've no need for a touch interface. PB ------ > > /gustav > > >>>> peter.brawley at earthlink.net 19-06-12 23:01>>> > On 2012-06-19 12:06 PM, Gustav Brock wrote: >> Hi Peter >> >> Because it will run (my) Windows applications! > You love Micro$oft closed-source bloatware so much? Astonishing. >> That turns the machine from a toy to a tool. What a difference. And with the beautiful Metro interface when you use it in tablet mode. > What would be the advantage of that over a light netbook? > > PB > > ----- > >> Besides, it is even neater than an iPad. I mailed the pictures to my wife with minimum comments (busy with other tasks) but she ordered her copy right away. >> >> /gustav >> >> >>>>> peter.brawley at earthlink.net 19-06-12 18:37>>> >> On 2012-06-19 4:40 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: >>> Official site: >>> >>> http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en/us/default.aspx >>> >>> I want one. >> Why, when you can have an android with all those open source and free or >> nearly free widgets& tools? >> >> PB >> >> ----- >> >>> /gustav >>> >>> >>>>>> gustav at cactus.dk 19-06-12 8:18>>> >>> Very neat: >>> >>> http://www.bgr.com/nggallery/page-320/album-all/gallery-529/ >>> >>> I haven't seen that style of an integrated keyboard before. This way the unit actually may be useful for real work. >>> >>> /gustav From peter.brawley at earthlink.net Wed Jun 20 08:46:57 2012 From: peter.brawley at earthlink.net (Peter Brawley) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:46:57 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4FE1D451.80700@earthlink.net> On 2012-06-20 2:24 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Hans > > I can see how people use tablets or pads and I could use one as well. But it would be for casual use and I'm reluctant to spend money just to fill such need. My 7" tablet fills several use niches. Runs client software for our music server. Is a terrific way to watch movies late at night without disturbing the spouse. Is terrific for those wherever moments when the conversation leads to "let's look that up", which turns out to be something like a dozen times a day. Most surprisingly it's transformed reading habits. When in the course of a working day I find an article on the 'net I want to read, I now mostly just add the bookmark to my read list. The Chrome browser synchronises desktop & tablet bookmark menus, so later, nowhere near a desk, I can read any of those pieces in comfort. And it's much more enjoyable reading an ebook than a dead tree book. I can carry around all the books I'm reading and dip into any of 'em at any time. The lighting is better than with a dead tree book, no need for external light, page turning is a finger touch, I can save off excerpts if i like, I don't have to put it down to reference something on the 'net, and it always remembers where I was. All this in a light device that slips into a pocket. So, a terrific appliance that does some things I couldn't do before, does some things better than anything else. frees up a fair bit of desk time, and ('cept for testing apps I write for it) has zero functional overlap with a development 'puter. PB > > With the Surface machine the picture changes. This will fill my need while doubling as a useful machine for much of my professional work. > > /gustav > > >>>> hans.andersen at phulse.com 20-06-12 2:48>>> > I would rather not indulge any irrational and excessive dislike for Apple products. I'd rather we talk like serious professionals who have a curiosity with all things technology, rather than be stuck in a tribal mindset. > > The question I was wondering is whether it makes sense to spend that much money on a tablet when cheaper, high quality alternatives exist that satisfy whatever your needs are - whether it be a portable development platform (laptop) or a handy portable device for general email/chat/web surfing/content consumption etc (tablet). > > - Hans > > Sent from my iPhone > > On 2012-06-19, at 3:25 PM, "Jim Lawrence" wrote: > >> Not that I disagree with you at all but I have been using the very same >> argument with regards to MAC equipment. Why not just buy a nice laptop that >> performs as good or better at half the price? ;-) >> >> Is looks and having the "right" gear that important?...Isn't development >> production more important? >> >> Jim > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From john at winhaven.net Wed Jun 20 08:50:52 2012 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:50:52 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] support for VB 6 will continue throughout life of Windows 8 Message-ID: <068401cd4eeb$b53fc9b0$1fbf5d10$@winhaven.net> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/jj133813.aspx From ssharkins at gmail.com Wed Jun 20 08:58:47 2012 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:58:47 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] Excel ? from reader References: <4FE1BDB2.7080600@torchlake.com> Message-ID: Tina, it might just be the ticket -- I don't use the trust center at all, and therefore, I forget about it! Thank you -- I'll have him try this. Susan H. > Just looked into my Excel 2010 trust center options page - external > content. The choices are: > enable all data connections (not recommended) > prompt user about data connections > disable all data connections > and: > enable automatic update for all workbook links (not recommended) > prompt user on automatic update for workbook links > disable automatic update of workbook links > > In both sections, by default, the "prompt user" option is selected. This > is probably the place to make the changes. Hope this helps. > > T > > Tina Norris Fields > tinanfields at torchlake.com > 231-322-2787 > > > On 6/19/2012 11:53 AM, Susan Harkins wrote: >> >> >> Excel file (I'll call it "parent"). When opened, some cells are linked >> to other Excel files, I'll call "child 1" and "child 2". Actually, 140 >> of them. >> >> >> >> Parent has a cell, let's say C15. It contains: >> ='C:\[child1.xls]Sheet1'!$a15 >> >> >> >> Child (children) are all password-protected. >> >> >> >> These were all created under Excel 2003, all worked fine. Parent updated >> from children when parent was opened, never asked for password. >> >> >> >> Upgraded to Excel 2007, now opening parent prompts for a password for >> each child it tries to update from! 140 children.140 passwords. >> >> >> >> Any idea what happened? Or how to fix? >> >> >> >> >> >> ===========Beats me -- anyone had this kind of experience after >> upgrading? >> >> >> >> Susan H. >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Jun 20 09:49:37 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 07:49:37 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] 5 usb tools for support techs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3E5E109422B9438181DA81797F7BA590@creativesystemdesigns.com> That is an execellent backup tool...very fast as well. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Breen Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 12:49 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] 5 usb tools for support techs Hello Jim, I recently started using Clonezilla and love it. Mark On 19 June 2012 12:44, Jim Lawrence wrote: > I would be hard pressed to find a better set of tools to carry with me on a > USB stick. > > http://tinyurl.com/cby27uf > > Any other recommendation? > > Jim > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Jun 20 09:57:59 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 07:57:59 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] Graphics In-Reply-To: References: <54BFEF37141A476FAD7EA3BD59F73777@creativesystemdesigns.com><4FDBBBCD.9395.4887BFA@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: I think the definition is fairly loosely applied but as pointed out before it really has nothing to do with graphics other than it may require the use of a graphics to display the results. The whole field of graphic databases is very interesting as it still appears to be a growing technology. Great links. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Breen Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 12:46 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Graphics Hello Jim, I do not think it is an analysis tool. From my quick read a week, I understood it to be a plain old database, but instead of storing relations, it stores nodes and edges instead of relations. In addition to Stuarts link, I would urge any curious to look at the diagram on Wikiapedia Funny thing, I never heard of Graph databases, or even the word Graph used in this context yet two days ago I opened a software magazine I saw it mentioned. When those things happen, I always wonder did I see that word one hundred times previously but always unconsciously ignored it. Here are two sentences from Wikipedia. "A *graph database* uses graph structures with nodes, edges, and properties to represent and store data. By definition, a graph database is any storage system that provides index-free adjacency. This means that every element contains a direct pointer to its adjacent element and no indexlookups are necessary." "Graph databases are based on graph theory. Graph databases employ nodes, properties, and edges. Nodes are very similar in nature to the objects that object-oriented programmers will be familiar with." So now we all know, it is that old reliable Graph Theroy. Mark On 16 June 2012 22:58, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Thanks for that Stuart. > > I am more familiar with a couple of local companies who specialize in > translating and storing compressed vector based data in databases such as > Oracle, MSSQL and PostgreSQL. There products are very expensive. > > Esri Canada https://www.esri.ca/ > > I am familiar with all the high end graphic applications and assumed that > was what was being described. The original linked site is hardly > illustrative. > > So it is a data analysis tool...sounds useful but not a tool I will be > using > in the near future. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > Sent: Friday, June 15, 2012 3:49 PM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Graphics > > You are under a misapprehension. graph <> graphic > > Titan is a "graph database" not a "graphics database", two totally > different > things. > > It's just another NoSQL data system using the node/edge paradigm > mathematical graph > theory (not trigonometry). > > It has nothing to with with "graphic files" > > > There's a good primer here: > http://adam.heroku.com/past/2010/3/15/graph_databases/ > > > -- > Stuart > > On 15 Jun 2012 at 12:48, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > For those of you who may be working on high end graphic files, Autodesk, > > Mya, XSI etc there is a database product for you called Titan. > > > > http://thinkaurelius.github.com/titan/ > > > > Jim > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-Tech mailing list > > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > Stuart McLachlan > > Ph: +675 340 4392 > Mob: +675 7100 2028 > Web: http://www.lexacorp.com.pg > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Jun 20 10:09:04 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:09:04 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5F93D86261AC4B6F96701F8CD7AC0290@creativesystemdesigns.com> Well, it has been proven that people will pay a premium price for good quality, cutting edge technology especially if it looks really slick. The new surface has all the above qualities so there is no reason it will not be successful. Win8 will have to succeed in tablet form but that is what it is designed for. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 2:42 AM To: dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range Hi Hans et al It looks like the clever keyboard cover is not "just another keyboard": http://www.techradar.com/news/mobile-computing/tablets/whats-unique-about-mi crosofts-surface-tablet-touch-cover-1085941 /gustav >>> hans.andersen at phulse.com 20-06-12 6:39 >>> A tablet of any sort, keyboard or not, surface or alternative, is always going to be a very poor environment for software development. The hardware isn't going to be powerful enough to do serious programming (ie. running Visual Studio or SQL Server) and from what I can tell from the pictures, the keyboard was designed with style in mind rather than function - which is fine for casual use, but I imagine any serious developer will find it frustrating, perhaps to the same extent as with a tiny netbooks keyboard and why thats not a good platform for software development. If you have the money to blow and you are a huge Microsoft fan, then this looks to be a decent tablet and a good attempt by MS, but I honestly would not call it anywhere near the best that is out there and there is nothing ground breaking here. There are plenty of android tablets out there that are pretty good, if an ipad is not your thing and they all have really cool keyboard addons. I am only puzzled why MS let the price be so high, because this is going to be a major sticking point for consumers and when faced with a choice of Windows RT and an iPad or any Android tablet, I think any consumer would go for Android/iPad hands down, because that is what everyone else is using and they have a much more developed eco-system. This is the same reason why Windows Phone 7 is struggling to even make a dent in the mobile market ( ie. its in the 'Other' category meaning it only takes a portion of the 4.8% in this category - from source: http://www.slashgear.com/android-and-ios-swallow-global-smart-device-market- 19234683/ ). Tablets are not development platforms, that's pretty obvious and you'd want a laptop or desktop for that sort of stuff. Businesses have use for tablets, but I guess not in the way you are thinking. I see a lot of businesses switching their POS clients with ipads or using it for conferences and meetings. It makes sense, but if you haven't ever even used one, then I can understand why its a bit hard to imagine. Hans _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From hans.andersen at phulse.com Tue Jun 19 23:35:21 2012 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 21:35:21 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range In-Reply-To: <5F9B51570B7E4804B48A50DD55C7C490@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <9CB04EC7-6233-4AD1-BCE1-BB376FE80AFA@phulse.com> <5F9B51570B7E4804B48A50DD55C7C490@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <121C4241-F649-463D-B937-2483231ED606@phulse.com> A tablet of any sort, keyboard or not, surface or alternative, is always going to be a very poor environment for software development. The hardware isn't going to be powerful enough to do serious programming (ie. running Visual Studio or SQL Server) and from what I can tell from the pictures, the keyboard was designed with style in mind rather than function - which is fine for casual use, but I imagine any serious developer will find it frustrating, perhaps to the same extent as with a tiny netbooks keyboard and why thats not a good platform for software development. If you have the money to blow and you are a huge Microsoft fan, then this looks to be a decent tablet and a good attempt by MS, but I honestly would not call it anywhere near the best that is out there and there is nothing ground breaking here. There are plenty of android tablets out there that are pretty good, if an ipad is not your thing and they all have really cool keyboard addons. I am only puzzled why MS let the price be so high, because this is going to be a major sticking point for consumers and when faced with a choice of Windows RT and an iPad or any Android tablet, I think any consumer would go for Android/iPad hands down, because that is what everyone else is using and they have a much more developed eco-system. This is the same reason why Windows Phone 7 is struggling to even make a dent in the mobile market ( ie. its in the 'Other' category meaning it only takes a portion of the 4.8% in this category - from source: http://www.slashgear.com/android-and-ios-swallow-global-smart-device-market-19234683/ ). Tablets are not development platforms, that's pretty obvious and you'd want a laptop or desktop for that sort of stuff. Businesses have use for tablets, but I guess not in the way you are thinking. I see a lot of businesses switching their POS clients with ipads or using it for conferences and meetings. It makes sense, but if you haven't ever even used one, then I can understand why its a bit hard to imagine. Hans On 2012-06-19, at 8:55 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > I thought we were discussing products strictly on their costs but because > the manufactures are so linked it is difficult to separate them from the > topic. My focus was only on one point, dollar and cents and nothing to do > with " tribal mindset " or any other side issues. > > As soon as you start adding a keyboard the product immediately moves into > the world of laptops and all the functionality that they provide or in this > case, imply they will provide. > > Pads of all kinds have their place and they do what they do very well but > they are not a business or development machine, plain and simple and it is > a waste of time to make them so. > > I think MS is trying to make a pseudo pad/laptop/business machine and I have > a hard time getting my head around a product like high-performance racing > dump truck. ;-) > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian > Andersen > Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 5:48 PM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range > > I would rather not indulge any irrational and excessive dislike for Apple > products. I'd rather we talk like serious professionals who have a curiosity > with all things technology, rather than be stuck in a tribal mindset. > > The question I was wondering is whether it makes sense to spend that much > money on a tablet when cheaper, high quality alternatives exist that satisfy > whatever your needs are - whether it be a portable development platform > (laptop) or a handy portable device for general email/chat/web > surfing/content consumption etc (tablet). > > - Hans > > Sent from my iPhone > > On 2012-06-19, at 3:25 PM, "Jim Lawrence" wrote: > >> Not that I disagree with you at all but I have been using the very same >> argument with regards to MAC equipment. Why not just buy a nice laptop > that >> performs as good or better at half the price? ;-) >> >> Is looks and having the "right" gear that important?...Isn't development >> production more important? >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian >> Andersen >> Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 10:21 AM >> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues >> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range >> >>> Because it will run (my) Windows applications! >> >> Not if you buy the Windows RT ARM version. You will have to buy the > bulkier >> Intel version, which cost $700-1000 from what I understand. At that price, >> you might as well just buy a nice laptop or net book in my opinion. Or 2 >> iPads/Androids with a keyboard attachment. >> >> Best regards, >> Hans-Christian Andersen >> >> >> On 19 Jun 2012, at 10:06, "Gustav Brock" wrote: >> >>> Hi Peter >>> >>> Because it will run (my) Windows applications! >>> >>> That turns the machine from a toy to a tool. What a difference. And with >> the beautiful Metro interface when you use it in tablet mode. >>> >>> Besides, it is even neater than an iPad. I mailed the pictures to my wife >> with minimum comments (busy with other tasks) but she ordered her copy > right >> away. >>> >>> /gustav >>> >>> >>>>>> peter.brawley at earthlink.net 19-06-12 18:37 >>> >>> On 2012-06-19 4:40 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: >>>> Official site: >>>> >>>> http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en/us/default.aspx >>>> >>>> I want one. >>> >>> Why, when you can have an android with all those open source and free or >>> nearly free widgets & tools? >>> >>> PB >>> >>> ----- >>> >>>> >>>> /gustav >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> gustav at cactus.dk 19-06-12 8:18>>> >>>> Very neat: >>>> >>>> http://www.bgr.com/nggallery/page-320/album-all/gallery-529/ >>>> >>>> I haven't seen that style of an integrated keyboard before. This way the >> unit actually may be useful for real work. >>>> >>>> /gustav >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> bheid at sc.rr.com 19-06-12 4:32>>> >>>> It looks like the pro model has USB 3 on it and maybe a display port. >>>> >>>> Is interesting though. >>>> >>>> Bobby >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>>> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DJK (John) >>>> Robinson >>>> Sent: Monday, June 18, 2012 8:21 PM >>>> To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' >>>> Subject: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range >>>> >>>> The 'mystery' launch of the MS's new Surface tablet has just ended. >>>> >>>> Looks interesting - tablet with stand and keyboard. Thin, VaporMag, but >>>> only USB2. more than one model: Win8 or RT. >>>> Nice design, though no info on battery life. >>>> >>>> Think I might want one ... >>>> >>>> John >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> dba-Tech mailing list >>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Jun 20 10:30:22 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:30:22 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] support for VB 6 will continue throughout life ofWindows 8 In-Reply-To: <068401cd4eeb$b53fc9b0$1fbf5d10$@winhaven.net> References: <068401cd4eeb$b53fc9b0$1fbf5d10$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <7F384777DAC44879B2B5BC46F289B2AF@creativesystemdesigns.com> That's good news for the virtually thousands (...most likely 100s of thousands) of lines of code I have in the language...and then of course there is Access, at its core is VB What is needed is a translator that will translate VB to other languages like .Net/JavaScript-HTML/PHP and so on as I find few companies can actually afford to have someone do a redesign of their various custom applications. One old client had calculated that their current main business application had cost them over a million dollar, in the twenty years that it was being built and supported. It is written in VB and rest assured, if possibly, it will be used for another twenty years. So if there are any bright young programmers out there, they could make an absolute fortune writing a decent translator. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 6:51 AM To: DBA-Tech Subject: [dba-Tech] support for VB 6 will continue throughout life ofWindows 8 http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/jj133813.aspx _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Jun 20 10:59:19 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:59:19 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range In-Reply-To: <121C4241-F649-463D-B937-2483231ED606@phulse.com> References: <9CB04EC7-6233-4AD1-BCE1-BB376FE80AFA@phulse.com><5F9B51570B7E4804B48A50DD55C7C490@creativesystemdesigns.com> <121C4241-F649-463D-B937-2483231ED606@phulse.com> Message-ID: <449C3ADEF4C1495A8A508D3440E0A614@creativesystemdesigns.com> I think Microsoft will be well advised to stop trying to make one OS all things to all people. It is time their OS was split up, Win8 for tablets, subversion of Win8 for SmartPhones, Basic GUI for their server/cloud-server and other commercial systems and finally a pretty GUI for their PC development, business use and game playing systems. I do think the public is going to do just that, pick their OS, whether MS wishes it or not. Right now there are some excellent, user friendly versions of Linux just waiting for Microsoft to either drop or abandon their PC support. It has now been almost three months since I converted half of a client's PCs to Ubuntu 12.04 and there is hardly been a problem. On site, one bright young lady has taken over the Linux support and she loves it. I think all it will take is a few similar sites, Microsoft leaving behind their PC base, the fading of the fear of Linux distros and if the tide turns... Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian Andersen Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 9:35 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range A tablet of any sort, keyboard or not, surface or alternative, is always going to be a very poor environment for software development. The hardware isn't going to be powerful enough to do serious programming (ie. running Visual Studio or SQL Server) and from what I can tell from the pictures, the keyboard was designed with style in mind rather than function - which is fine for casual use, but I imagine any serious developer will find it frustrating, perhaps to the same extent as with a tiny netbooks keyboard and why thats not a good platform for software development. If you have the money to blow and you are a huge Microsoft fan, then this looks to be a decent tablet and a good attempt by MS, but I honestly would not call it anywhere near the best that is out there and there is nothing ground breaking here. There are plenty of android tablets out there that are pretty good, if an ipad is not your thing and they all have really cool keyboard addons. I am only puzzled why MS let the price be so high, because this is going to be a major sticking point for consumers and when faced with a choice of Windows RT and an iPad or any Android tablet, I think any consumer would go for Android/iPad hands down, because that is what everyone else is using and they have a much more developed eco-system. This is the same reason why Windows Phone 7 is struggling to even make a dent in the mobile market ( ie. its in the 'Other' category meaning it only takes a portion of the 4.8% in this category - from source: http://www.slashgear.com/android-and-ios-swallow-global-smart-device-market- 19234683/ ). Tablets are not development platforms, that's pretty obvious and you'd want a laptop or desktop for that sort of stuff. Businesses have use for tablets, but I guess not in the way you are thinking. I see a lot of businesses switching their POS clients with ipads or using it for conferences and meetings. It makes sense, but if you haven't ever even used one, then I can understand why its a bit hard to imagine. Hans On 2012-06-19, at 8:55 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > I thought we were discussing products strictly on their costs but because > the manufactures are so linked it is difficult to separate them from the > topic. My focus was only on one point, dollar and cents and nothing to do > with " tribal mindset " or any other side issues. > > As soon as you start adding a keyboard the product immediately moves into > the world of laptops and all the functionality that they provide or in this > case, imply they will provide. > > Pads of all kinds have their place and they do what they do very well but > they are not a business or development machine, plain and simple and it is > a waste of time to make them so. > > I think MS is trying to make a pseudo pad/laptop/business machine and I have > a hard time getting my head around a product like high-performance racing > dump truck. ;-) > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian > Andersen > Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 5:48 PM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range > > I would rather not indulge any irrational and excessive dislike for Apple > products. I'd rather we talk like serious professionals who have a curiosity > with all things technology, rather than be stuck in a tribal mindset. > > The question I was wondering is whether it makes sense to spend that much > money on a tablet when cheaper, high quality alternatives exist that satisfy > whatever your needs are - whether it be a portable development platform > (laptop) or a handy portable device for general email/chat/web > surfing/content consumption etc (tablet). > > - Hans > > Sent from my iPhone > > On 2012-06-19, at 3:25 PM, "Jim Lawrence" wrote: > >> Not that I disagree with you at all but I have been using the very same >> argument with regards to MAC equipment. Why not just buy a nice laptop > that >> performs as good or better at half the price? ;-) >> >> Is looks and having the "right" gear that important?...Isn't development >> production more important? >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian >> Andersen >> Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 10:21 AM >> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues >> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range >> >>> Because it will run (my) Windows applications! >> >> Not if you buy the Windows RT ARM version. You will have to buy the > bulkier >> Intel version, which cost $700-1000 from what I understand. At that price, >> you might as well just buy a nice laptop or net book in my opinion. Or 2 >> iPads/Androids with a keyboard attachment. >> >> Best regards, >> Hans-Christian Andersen >> >> >> On 19 Jun 2012, at 10:06, "Gustav Brock" wrote: >> >>> Hi Peter >>> >>> Because it will run (my) Windows applications! >>> >>> That turns the machine from a toy to a tool. What a difference. And with >> the beautiful Metro interface when you use it in tablet mode. >>> >>> Besides, it is even neater than an iPad. I mailed the pictures to my wife >> with minimum comments (busy with other tasks) but she ordered her copy > right >> away. >>> >>> /gustav >>> >>> >>>>>> peter.brawley at earthlink.net 19-06-12 18:37 >>> >>> On 2012-06-19 4:40 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: >>>> Official site: >>>> >>>> http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en/us/default.aspx >>>> >>>> I want one. >>> >>> Why, when you can have an android with all those open source and free or >>> nearly free widgets & tools? >>> >>> PB >>> >>> ----- >>> >>>> >>>> /gustav >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> gustav at cactus.dk 19-06-12 8:18>>> >>>> Very neat: >>>> >>>> http://www.bgr.com/nggallery/page-320/album-all/gallery-529/ >>>> >>>> I haven't seen that style of an integrated keyboard before. This way the >> unit actually may be useful for real work. >>>> >>>> /gustav >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> bheid at sc.rr.com 19-06-12 4:32>>> >>>> It looks like the pro model has USB 3 on it and maybe a display port. >>>> >>>> Is interesting though. >>>> >>>> Bobby >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>>> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DJK (John) >>>> Robinson >>>> Sent: Monday, June 18, 2012 8:21 PM >>>> To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' >>>> Subject: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range >>>> >>>> The 'mystery' launch of the MS's new Surface tablet has just ended. >>>> >>>> Looks interesting - tablet with stand and keyboard. Thin, VaporMag, but >>>> only USB2. more than one model: Win8 or RT. >>>> Nice design, though no info on battery life. >>>> >>>> Think I might want one ... >>>> >>>> John >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> dba-Tech mailing list >>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From hans.andersen at phulse.com Wed Jun 20 12:38:23 2012 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:38:23 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range In-Reply-To: <449C3ADEF4C1495A8A508D3440E0A614@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <9CB04EC7-6233-4AD1-BCE1-BB376FE80AFA@phulse.com><5F9B51570B7E4804B48A50DD55C7C490@creativesystemdesigns.com> <121C4241-F649-463D-B937-2483231ED606@phulse.com> <449C3ADEF4C1495A8A508D3440E0A614@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <1C91743E-0FEE-4FA8-904F-700D31B01B58@phulse.com> You are doing gnu's work, Jim... there is a huge inefficiency in the world as it is today. many small businesses have no need for windows and office (and the $costs involved) and will be quite happy using linux + open office, etc. there is still the injustice of the microsoft tax, but perhaps things will change as linux gains more usage. Hans On 2012-06-20, at 8:59 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > I think Microsoft will be well advised to stop trying to make one OS all > things to all people. > > It is time their OS was split up, Win8 for tablets, subversion of Win8 for > SmartPhones, Basic GUI for their server/cloud-server and other commercial > systems and finally a pretty GUI for their PC development, business use and > game playing systems. > > I do think the public is going to do just that, pick their OS, whether MS > wishes it or not. Right now there are some excellent, user friendly versions > of Linux just waiting for Microsoft to either drop or abandon their PC > support. > > It has now been almost three months since I converted half of a client's PCs > to Ubuntu 12.04 and there is hardly been a problem. On site, one bright > young lady has taken over the Linux support and she loves it. I think all it > will take is a few similar sites, Microsoft leaving behind their PC base, > the fading of the fear of Linux distros and if the tide turns... > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian > Andersen > Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 9:35 PM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range > > > A tablet of any sort, keyboard or not, surface or alternative, is always > going to be a very poor environment for software development. The hardware > isn't going to be powerful enough to do serious programming (ie. running > Visual Studio or SQL Server) and from what I can tell from the pictures, the > keyboard was designed with style in mind rather than function - which is > fine for casual use, but I imagine any serious developer will find it > frustrating, perhaps to the same extent as with a tiny netbooks keyboard and > why thats not a good platform for software development. > > If you have the money to blow and you are a huge Microsoft fan, then this > looks to be a decent tablet and a good attempt by MS, but I honestly would > not call it anywhere near the best that is out there and there is nothing > ground breaking here. There are plenty of android tablets out there that are > pretty good, if an ipad is not your thing and they all have really cool > keyboard addons. > > I am only puzzled why MS let the price be so high, because this is going to > be a major sticking point for consumers and when faced with a choice of > Windows RT and an iPad or any Android tablet, I think any consumer would go > for Android/iPad hands down, because that is what everyone else is using and > they have a much more developed eco-system. This is the same reason why > Windows Phone 7 is struggling to even make a dent in the mobile market ( ie. > its in the 'Other' category meaning it only takes a portion of the 4.8% in > this category - from source: > http://www.slashgear.com/android-and-ios-swallow-global-smart-device-market- > 19234683/ ). > > Tablets are not development platforms, that's pretty obvious and you'd want > a laptop or desktop for that sort of stuff. Businesses have use for tablets, > but I guess not in the way you are thinking. I see a lot of businesses > switching their POS clients with ipads or using it for conferences and > meetings. It makes sense, but if you haven't ever even used one, then I can > understand why its a bit hard to imagine. > > Hans > > > > On 2012-06-19, at 8:55 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > >> I thought we were discussing products strictly on their costs but because >> the manufactures are so linked it is difficult to separate them from the >> topic. My focus was only on one point, dollar and cents and nothing to do >> with " tribal mindset " or any other side issues. >> >> As soon as you start adding a keyboard the product immediately moves into >> the world of laptops and all the functionality that they provide or in > this >> case, imply they will provide. >> >> Pads of all kinds have their place and they do what they do very well but >> they are not a business or development machine, plain and simple and it is >> a waste of time to make them so. >> >> I think MS is trying to make a pseudo pad/laptop/business machine and I > have >> a hard time getting my head around a product like high-performance racing >> dump truck. ;-) >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian >> Andersen >> Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 5:48 PM >> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues >> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range >> >> I would rather not indulge any irrational and excessive dislike for Apple >> products. I'd rather we talk like serious professionals who have a > curiosity >> with all things technology, rather than be stuck in a tribal mindset. >> >> The question I was wondering is whether it makes sense to spend that much >> money on a tablet when cheaper, high quality alternatives exist that > satisfy >> whatever your needs are - whether it be a portable development platform >> (laptop) or a handy portable device for general email/chat/web >> surfing/content consumption etc (tablet). >> >> - Hans >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On 2012-06-19, at 3:25 PM, "Jim Lawrence" wrote: >> >>> Not that I disagree with you at all but I have been using the very same >>> argument with regards to MAC equipment. Why not just buy a nice laptop >> that >>> performs as good or better at half the price? ;-) >>> >>> Is looks and having the "right" gear that important?...Isn't development >>> production more important? >>> >>> Jim >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Hans-Christian >>> Andersen >>> Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 10:21 AM >>> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues >>> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range >>> >>>> Because it will run (my) Windows applications! >>> >>> Not if you buy the Windows RT ARM version. You will have to buy the >> bulkier >>> Intel version, which cost $700-1000 from what I understand. At that > price, >>> you might as well just buy a nice laptop or net book in my opinion. Or 2 >>> iPads/Androids with a keyboard attachment. >>> >>> Best regards, >>> Hans-Christian Andersen >>> >>> >>> On 19 Jun 2012, at 10:06, "Gustav Brock" wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Peter >>>> >>>> Because it will run (my) Windows applications! >>>> >>>> That turns the machine from a toy to a tool. What a difference. And with >>> the beautiful Metro interface when you use it in tablet mode. >>>> >>>> Besides, it is even neater than an iPad. I mailed the pictures to my > wife >>> with minimum comments (busy with other tasks) but she ordered her copy >> right >>> away. >>>> >>>> /gustav >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> peter.brawley at earthlink.net 19-06-12 18:37 >>> >>>> On 2012-06-19 4:40 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: >>>>> Official site: >>>>> >>>>> http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en/us/default.aspx >>>>> >>>>> I want one. >>>> >>>> Why, when you can have an android with all those open source and free or > >>>> nearly free widgets & tools? >>>> >>>> PB >>>> >>>> ----- >>>> >>>>> >>>>> /gustav >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>> gustav at cactus.dk 19-06-12 8:18>>> >>>>> Very neat: >>>>> >>>>> http://www.bgr.com/nggallery/page-320/album-all/gallery-529/ >>>>> >>>>> I haven't seen that style of an integrated keyboard before. This way > the >>> unit actually may be useful for real work. >>>>> >>>>> /gustav >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>> bheid at sc.rr.com 19-06-12 4:32>>> >>>>> It looks like the pro model has USB 3 on it and maybe a display port. >>>>> >>>>> Is interesting though. >>>>> >>>>> Bobby >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DJK (John) >>>>> Robinson >>>>> Sent: Monday, June 18, 2012 8:21 PM >>>>> To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' >>>>> Subject: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range >>>>> >>>>> The 'mystery' launch of the MS's new Surface tablet has just ended. >>>>> >>>>> Looks interesting - tablet with stand and keyboard. Thin, VaporMag, > but >>>>> only USB2. more than one model: Win8 or RT. >>>>> Nice design, though no info on battery life. >>>>> >>>>> Think I might want one ... >>>>> >>>>> John >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> dba-Tech mailing list >>>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> dba-Tech mailing list >>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> dba-Tech mailing list >>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From djkr at msn.com Wed Jun 20 12:43:48 2012 From: djkr at msn.com (DJK (John) Robinson) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 18:43:48 +0100 Subject: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range In-Reply-To: <449C3ADEF4C1495A8A508D3440E0A614@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Don't confuse the OS with the GUI - they really are not the same thing! And there's no reason a good OS base shouldn't be able to wear different faces successfully. Not the same as presenting the same GUI on different bases - NT versus ME anyone?! Generally, the public doesn't "pick their OS" (they wouldn't know how to) - they pick GUI and applications, *and* familiarity. John -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: 20 June 2012 16:59 To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range I think Microsoft will be well advised to stop trying to make one OS all things to all people. It is time their OS was split up, Win8 for tablets, subversion of Win8 for SmartPhones, Basic GUI for their server/cloud-server and other commercial systems and finally a pretty GUI for their PC development, business use and game playing systems. I do think the public is going to do just that, pick their OS, whether MS wishes it or not. Right now there are some excellent, user friendly versions of Linux just waiting for Microsoft to either drop or abandon their PC support. It has now been almost three months since I converted half of a client's PCs to Ubuntu 12.04 and there is hardly been a problem. On site, one bright young lady has taken over the Linux support and she loves it. I think all it will take is a few similar sites, Microsoft leaving behind their PC base, the fading of the fear of Linux distros and if the tide turns... Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian Andersen Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 9:35 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range A tablet of any sort, keyboard or not, surface or alternative, is always going to be a very poor environment for software development. The hardware isn't going to be powerful enough to do serious programming (ie. running Visual Studio or SQL Server) and from what I can tell from the pictures, the keyboard was designed with style in mind rather than function - which is fine for casual use, but I imagine any serious developer will find it frustrating, perhaps to the same extent as with a tiny netbooks keyboard and why thats not a good platform for software development. If you have the money to blow and you are a huge Microsoft fan, then this looks to be a decent tablet and a good attempt by MS, but I honestly would not call it anywhere near the best that is out there and there is nothing ground breaking here. There are plenty of android tablets out there that are pretty good, if an ipad is not your thing and they all have really cool keyboard addons. I am only puzzled why MS let the price be so high, because this is going to be a major sticking point for consumers and when faced with a choice of Windows RT and an iPad or any Android tablet, I think any consumer would go for Android/iPad hands down, because that is what everyone else is using and they have a much more developed eco-system. This is the same reason why Windows Phone 7 is struggling to even make a dent in the mobile market ( ie. its in the 'Other' category meaning it only takes a portion of the 4.8% in this category - from source: http://www.slashgear.com/android-and-ios-swallow-global-smart-device-market- 19234683/ ). Tablets are not development platforms, that's pretty obvious and you'd want a laptop or desktop for that sort of stuff. Businesses have use for tablets, but I guess not in the way you are thinking. I see a lot of businesses switching their POS clients with ipads or using it for conferences and meetings. It makes sense, but if you haven't ever even used one, then I can understand why its a bit hard to imagine. Hans On 2012-06-19, at 8:55 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > I thought we were discussing products strictly on their costs but > because the manufactures are so linked it is difficult to separate > them from the topic. My focus was only on one point, dollar and cents > and nothing to do with " tribal mindset " or any other side issues. > > As soon as you start adding a keyboard the product immediately moves > into the world of laptops and all the functionality that they provide > or in this > case, imply they will provide. > > Pads of all kinds have their place and they do what they do very well > but they are not a business or development machine, plain and simple > and it is a waste of time to make them so. > > I think MS is trying to make a pseudo pad/laptop/business machine and > I have > a hard time getting my head around a product like high-performance > racing dump truck. ;-) > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Hans-Christian Andersen > Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 5:48 PM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range > > I would rather not indulge any irrational and excessive dislike for > Apple products. I'd rather we talk like serious professionals who have > a curiosity > with all things technology, rather than be stuck in a tribal mindset. > > The question I was wondering is whether it makes sense to spend that > much money on a tablet when cheaper, high quality alternatives exist > that satisfy > whatever your needs are - whether it be a portable development > platform > (laptop) or a handy portable device for general email/chat/web > surfing/content consumption etc (tablet). > > - Hans > > Sent from my iPhone > > On 2012-06-19, at 3:25 PM, "Jim Lawrence" wrote: > >> Not that I disagree with you at all but I have been using the very >> same argument with regards to MAC equipment. Why not just buy a nice >> laptop > that >> performs as good or better at half the price? ;-) >> >> Is looks and having the "right" gear that important?...Isn't >> development production more important? >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian >> Andersen >> Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 10:21 AM >> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues >> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range >> >>> Because it will run (my) Windows applications! >> >> Not if you buy the Windows RT ARM version. You will have to buy the > bulkier >> Intel version, which cost $700-1000 from what I understand. At that price, >> you might as well just buy a nice laptop or net book in my opinion. >> Or 2 iPads/Androids with a keyboard attachment. >> >> Best regards, >> Hans-Christian Andersen >> >> >> On 19 Jun 2012, at 10:06, "Gustav Brock" wrote: >> >>> Hi Peter >>> >>> Because it will run (my) Windows applications! >>> >>> That turns the machine from a toy to a tool. What a difference. And >>> with >> the beautiful Metro interface when you use it in tablet mode. >>> >>> Besides, it is even neater than an iPad. I mailed the pictures to my wife >> with minimum comments (busy with other tasks) but she ordered her >> copy > right >> away. >>> >>> /gustav >>> >>> >>>>>> peter.brawley at earthlink.net 19-06-12 18:37 >>> >>> On 2012-06-19 4:40 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: >>>> Official site: >>>> >>>> http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en/us/default.aspx >>>> >>>> I want one. >>> >>> Why, when you can have an android with all those open source and >>> free or >>> nearly free widgets & tools? >>> >>> PB >>> >>> ----- >>> >>>> >>>> /gustav >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> gustav at cactus.dk 19-06-12 8:18>>> >>>> Very neat: >>>> >>>> http://www.bgr.com/nggallery/page-320/album-all/gallery-529/ >>>> >>>> I haven't seen that style of an integrated keyboard before. This >>>> way the >> unit actually may be useful for real work. >>>> >>>> /gustav >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> bheid at sc.rr.com 19-06-12 4:32>>> >>>> It looks like the pro model has USB 3 on it and maybe a display >>>> port. >>>> >>>> Is interesting though. >>>> >>>> Bobby >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>>> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DJK >>>> (John) Robinson >>>> Sent: Monday, June 18, 2012 8:21 PM >>>> To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' >>>> Subject: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range >>>> >>>> The 'mystery' launch of the MS's new Surface tablet has just ended. >>>> >>>> Looks interesting - tablet with stand and keyboard. Thin, >>>> VaporMag, but >>>> only USB2. more than one model: Win8 or RT. >>>> Nice design, though no info on battery life. >>>> >>>> Think I might want one ... >>>> >>>> John >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> dba-Tech mailing list >>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Wed Jun 20 13:45:44 2012 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:45:44 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] Interesting Excel graph puzzle Message-ID: <452489386CF3405E886279BA265101AF@SusanHarkins> A reader has time/dates in the chart's axis series and wants to compare am/pm times visually using a graph -- the am/pm times are in the same column. I've never run into anything like that -- have any of you had to do something like this? Susan H. From tinanfields at torchlake.com Wed Jun 20 14:23:49 2012 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 15:23:49 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] Interesting Excel graph puzzle In-Reply-To: <452489386CF3405E886279BA265101AF@SusanHarkins> References: <452489386CF3405E886279BA265101AF@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: <4FE22345.1090002@torchlake.com> Well, I admit I'm not sure I understand. Are the times all in 12-hr format and the am/pm indicator is somewhere nearby? Please tell me more so I can get my brain around it. T Tina Norris Fields tinanfields at torchlake.com 231-322-2787 On 6/20/2012 2:45 PM, Susan Harkins wrote: > A reader has time/dates in the chart's axis series and wants to compare am/pm times visually using a graph -- the am/pm times are in the same column. I've never run into anything like that -- have any of you had to do something like this? > > Susan H. > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From ssharkins at gmail.com Wed Jun 20 14:42:31 2012 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 15:42:31 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] Interesting Excel graph puzzle References: <452489386CF3405E886279BA265101AF@SusanHarkins> <4FE22345.1090002@torchlake.com> Message-ID: <35410C05E9CD4155997963BB4D422208@SusanHarkins> I just think the data's arranged improperly for the task, but I can see someone doing this and running into this problem, as this guy has. In column A he has date/time values that include both date and time. In column B, he has corresponding values. He wants to graph the date/time values by am and pm -- in other words, he wants the column B data separated by two labels -- am and pm. Don't try to puzzle through it -- I just thought if someone had actually had this problem, they might respond. I suggested that he sort column A into am/pm blocks (he'll need a helper column for that), set up his graph defaults, and then copy/paste the am values and then copy/paste the pm values -- that was off the top of my head and I don't know if it'll actually work or not -- haven't tried it yet. I don't spend much time on reader questions -- I either know how to help them or I don't. This time, I just don't! ;) Susan H. > Well, I admit I'm not sure I understand. Are the times all in 12-hr > format and the am/pm indicator is somewhere nearby? Please tell me more > so I can get my brain around it. > > On 6/20/2012 2:45 PM, Susan Harkins wrote: >> A reader has time/dates in the chart's axis series and wants to compare >> am/pm times visually using a graph -- the am/pm times are in the same >> column. I've never run into anything like that -- have any of you had to >> do something like this? >> >> Susan H. >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Wed Jun 20 22:00:26 2012 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:00:26 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range In-Reply-To: References: <449C3ADEF4C1495A8A508D3440E0A614@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <08f101cd4f5a$028c9130$07a5b390$@winhaven.net> check this out :-) http://9gag.com/gag/4533067 -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DJK (John) Robinson Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 12:44 PM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range Don't confuse the OS with the GUI - they really are not the same thing! And there's no reason a good OS base shouldn't be able to wear different faces successfully. Not the same as presenting the same GUI on different bases - NT versus ME anyone?! Generally, the public doesn't "pick their OS" (they wouldn't know how to) - they pick GUI and applications, *and* familiarity. John -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: 20 June 2012 16:59 To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range I think Microsoft will be well advised to stop trying to make one OS all things to all people. It is time their OS was split up, Win8 for tablets, subversion of Win8 for SmartPhones, Basic GUI for their server/cloud-server and other commercial systems and finally a pretty GUI for their PC development, business use and game playing systems. I do think the public is going to do just that, pick their OS, whether MS wishes it or not. Right now there are some excellent, user friendly versions of Linux just waiting for Microsoft to either drop or abandon their PC support. It has now been almost three months since I converted half of a client's PCs to Ubuntu 12.04 and there is hardly been a problem. On site, one bright young lady has taken over the Linux support and she loves it. I think all it will take is a few similar sites, Microsoft leaving behind their PC base, the fading of the fear of Linux distros and if the tide turns... Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian Andersen Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 9:35 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range A tablet of any sort, keyboard or not, surface or alternative, is always going to be a very poor environment for software development. The hardware isn't going to be powerful enough to do serious programming (ie. running Visual Studio or SQL Server) and from what I can tell from the pictures, the keyboard was designed with style in mind rather than function - which is fine for casual use, but I imagine any serious developer will find it frustrating, perhaps to the same extent as with a tiny netbooks keyboard and why thats not a good platform for software development. If you have the money to blow and you are a huge Microsoft fan, then this looks to be a decent tablet and a good attempt by MS, but I honestly would not call it anywhere near the best that is out there and there is nothing ground breaking here. There are plenty of android tablets out there that are pretty good, if an ipad is not your thing and they all have really cool keyboard addons. I am only puzzled why MS let the price be so high, because this is going to be a major sticking point for consumers and when faced with a choice of Windows RT and an iPad or any Android tablet, I think any consumer would go for Android/iPad hands down, because that is what everyone else is using and they have a much more developed eco-system. This is the same reason why Windows Phone 7 is struggling to even make a dent in the mobile market ( ie. its in the 'Other' category meaning it only takes a portion of the 4.8% in this category - from source: http://www.slashgear.com/android-and-ios-swallow-global-smart-device-market- 19234683/ ). Tablets are not development platforms, that's pretty obvious and you'd want a laptop or desktop for that sort of stuff. Businesses have use for tablets, but I guess not in the way you are thinking. I see a lot of businesses switching their POS clients with ipads or using it for conferences and meetings. It makes sense, but if you haven't ever even used one, then I can understand why its a bit hard to imagine. Hans On 2012-06-19, at 8:55 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > I thought we were discussing products strictly on their costs but > because the manufactures are so linked it is difficult to separate > them from the topic. My focus was only on one point, dollar and cents > and nothing to do with " tribal mindset " or any other side issues. > > As soon as you start adding a keyboard the product immediately moves > into the world of laptops and all the functionality that they provide > or in this > case, imply they will provide. > > Pads of all kinds have their place and they do what they do very well > but they are not a business or development machine, plain and simple > and it is a waste of time to make them so. > > I think MS is trying to make a pseudo pad/laptop/business machine and > I have > a hard time getting my head around a product like high-performance > racing dump truck. ;-) > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Hans-Christian Andersen > Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 5:48 PM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range > > I would rather not indulge any irrational and excessive dislike for > Apple products. I'd rather we talk like serious professionals who have > a curiosity > with all things technology, rather than be stuck in a tribal mindset. > > The question I was wondering is whether it makes sense to spend that > much money on a tablet when cheaper, high quality alternatives exist > that satisfy > whatever your needs are - whether it be a portable development > platform > (laptop) or a handy portable device for general email/chat/web > surfing/content consumption etc (tablet). > > - Hans > > Sent from my iPhone > > On 2012-06-19, at 3:25 PM, "Jim Lawrence" wrote: > >> Not that I disagree with you at all but I have been using the very >> same argument with regards to MAC equipment. Why not just buy a nice >> laptop > that >> performs as good or better at half the price? ;-) >> >> Is looks and having the "right" gear that important?...Isn't >> development production more important? >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian >> Andersen >> Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 10:21 AM >> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues >> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range >> >>> Because it will run (my) Windows applications! >> >> Not if you buy the Windows RT ARM version. You will have to buy the > bulkier >> Intel version, which cost $700-1000 from what I understand. At that price, >> you might as well just buy a nice laptop or net book in my opinion. >> Or 2 iPads/Androids with a keyboard attachment. >> >> Best regards, >> Hans-Christian Andersen >> >> >> On 19 Jun 2012, at 10:06, "Gustav Brock" wrote: >> >>> Hi Peter >>> >>> Because it will run (my) Windows applications! >>> >>> That turns the machine from a toy to a tool. What a difference. And >>> with >> the beautiful Metro interface when you use it in tablet mode. >>> >>> Besides, it is even neater than an iPad. I mailed the pictures to my wife >> with minimum comments (busy with other tasks) but she ordered her >> copy > right >> away. >>> >>> /gustav >>> >>> >>>>>> peter.brawley at earthlink.net 19-06-12 18:37 >>> >>> On 2012-06-19 4:40 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: >>>> Official site: >>>> >>>> http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en/us/default.aspx >>>> >>>> I want one. >>> >>> Why, when you can have an android with all those open source and >>> free or >>> nearly free widgets & tools? >>> >>> PB >>> >>> ----- >>> >>>> >>>> /gustav >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> gustav at cactus.dk 19-06-12 8:18>>> >>>> Very neat: >>>> >>>> http://www.bgr.com/nggallery/page-320/album-all/gallery-529/ >>>> >>>> I haven't seen that style of an integrated keyboard before. This >>>> way the >> unit actually may be useful for real work. >>>> >>>> /gustav >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> bheid at sc.rr.com 19-06-12 4:32>>> >>>> It looks like the pro model has USB 3 on it and maybe a display >>>> port. >>>> >>>> Is interesting though. >>>> >>>> Bobby >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>>> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DJK >>>> (John) Robinson >>>> Sent: Monday, June 18, 2012 8:21 PM >>>> To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' >>>> Subject: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range >>>> >>>> The 'mystery' launch of the MS's new Surface tablet has just ended. >>>> >>>> Looks interesting - tablet with stand and keyboard. Thin, >>>> VaporMag, but >>>> only USB2. more than one model: Win8 or RT. >>>> Nice design, though no info on battery life. >>>> >>>> Think I might want one ... >>>> >>>> John >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> dba-Tech mailing list >>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Jun 21 00:22:09 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:22:09 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range In-Reply-To: <08f101cd4f5a$028c9130$07a5b390$@winhaven.net> References: <449C3ADEF4C1495A8A508D3440E0A614@creativesystemdesigns.com> <08f101cd4f5a$028c9130$07a5b390$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: Now that is so true. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 8:00 PM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range check this out :-) http://9gag.com/gag/4533067 -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DJK (John) Robinson Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 12:44 PM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range Don't confuse the OS with the GUI - they really are not the same thing! And there's no reason a good OS base shouldn't be able to wear different faces successfully. Not the same as presenting the same GUI on different bases - NT versus ME anyone?! Generally, the public doesn't "pick their OS" (they wouldn't know how to) - they pick GUI and applications, *and* familiarity. John -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: 20 June 2012 16:59 To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range I think Microsoft will be well advised to stop trying to make one OS all things to all people. It is time their OS was split up, Win8 for tablets, subversion of Win8 for SmartPhones, Basic GUI for their server/cloud-server and other commercial systems and finally a pretty GUI for their PC development, business use and game playing systems. I do think the public is going to do just that, pick their OS, whether MS wishes it or not. Right now there are some excellent, user friendly versions of Linux just waiting for Microsoft to either drop or abandon their PC support. It has now been almost three months since I converted half of a client's PCs to Ubuntu 12.04 and there is hardly been a problem. On site, one bright young lady has taken over the Linux support and she loves it. I think all it will take is a few similar sites, Microsoft leaving behind their PC base, the fading of the fear of Linux distros and if the tide turns... Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian Andersen Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 9:35 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range A tablet of any sort, keyboard or not, surface or alternative, is always going to be a very poor environment for software development. The hardware isn't going to be powerful enough to do serious programming (ie. running Visual Studio or SQL Server) and from what I can tell from the pictures, the keyboard was designed with style in mind rather than function - which is fine for casual use, but I imagine any serious developer will find it frustrating, perhaps to the same extent as with a tiny netbooks keyboard and why thats not a good platform for software development. If you have the money to blow and you are a huge Microsoft fan, then this looks to be a decent tablet and a good attempt by MS, but I honestly would not call it anywhere near the best that is out there and there is nothing ground breaking here. There are plenty of android tablets out there that are pretty good, if an ipad is not your thing and they all have really cool keyboard addons. I am only puzzled why MS let the price be so high, because this is going to be a major sticking point for consumers and when faced with a choice of Windows RT and an iPad or any Android tablet, I think any consumer would go for Android/iPad hands down, because that is what everyone else is using and they have a much more developed eco-system. This is the same reason why Windows Phone 7 is struggling to even make a dent in the mobile market ( ie. its in the 'Other' category meaning it only takes a portion of the 4.8% in this category - from source: http://www.slashgear.com/android-and-ios-swallow-global-smart-device-market- 19234683/ ). Tablets are not development platforms, that's pretty obvious and you'd want a laptop or desktop for that sort of stuff. Businesses have use for tablets, but I guess not in the way you are thinking. I see a lot of businesses switching their POS clients with ipads or using it for conferences and meetings. It makes sense, but if you haven't ever even used one, then I can understand why its a bit hard to imagine. Hans On 2012-06-19, at 8:55 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > I thought we were discussing products strictly on their costs but > because the manufactures are so linked it is difficult to separate > them from the topic. My focus was only on one point, dollar and cents > and nothing to do with " tribal mindset " or any other side issues. > > As soon as you start adding a keyboard the product immediately moves > into the world of laptops and all the functionality that they provide > or in this > case, imply they will provide. > > Pads of all kinds have their place and they do what they do very well > but they are not a business or development machine, plain and simple > and it is a waste of time to make them so. > > I think MS is trying to make a pseudo pad/laptop/business machine and > I have > a hard time getting my head around a product like high-performance > racing dump truck. ;-) > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Hans-Christian Andersen > Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 5:48 PM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range > > I would rather not indulge any irrational and excessive dislike for > Apple products. I'd rather we talk like serious professionals who have > a curiosity > with all things technology, rather than be stuck in a tribal mindset. > > The question I was wondering is whether it makes sense to spend that > much money on a tablet when cheaper, high quality alternatives exist > that satisfy > whatever your needs are - whether it be a portable development > platform > (laptop) or a handy portable device for general email/chat/web > surfing/content consumption etc (tablet). > > - Hans > > Sent from my iPhone > > On 2012-06-19, at 3:25 PM, "Jim Lawrence" wrote: > >> Not that I disagree with you at all but I have been using the very >> same argument with regards to MAC equipment. Why not just buy a nice >> laptop > that >> performs as good or better at half the price? ;-) >> >> Is looks and having the "right" gear that important?...Isn't >> development production more important? >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian >> Andersen >> Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 10:21 AM >> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues >> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range >> >>> Because it will run (my) Windows applications! >> >> Not if you buy the Windows RT ARM version. You will have to buy the > bulkier >> Intel version, which cost $700-1000 from what I understand. At that price, >> you might as well just buy a nice laptop or net book in my opinion. >> Or 2 iPads/Androids with a keyboard attachment. >> >> Best regards, >> Hans-Christian Andersen >> >> >> On 19 Jun 2012, at 10:06, "Gustav Brock" wrote: >> >>> Hi Peter >>> >>> Because it will run (my) Windows applications! >>> >>> That turns the machine from a toy to a tool. What a difference. And >>> with >> the beautiful Metro interface when you use it in tablet mode. >>> >>> Besides, it is even neater than an iPad. I mailed the pictures to my wife >> with minimum comments (busy with other tasks) but she ordered her >> copy > right >> away. >>> >>> /gustav >>> >>> >>>>>> peter.brawley at earthlink.net 19-06-12 18:37 >>> >>> On 2012-06-19 4:40 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: >>>> Official site: >>>> >>>> http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en/us/default.aspx >>>> >>>> I want one. >>> >>> Why, when you can have an android with all those open source and >>> free or >>> nearly free widgets & tools? >>> >>> PB >>> >>> ----- >>> >>>> >>>> /gustav >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> gustav at cactus.dk 19-06-12 8:18>>> >>>> Very neat: >>>> >>>> http://www.bgr.com/nggallery/page-320/album-all/gallery-529/ >>>> >>>> I haven't seen that style of an integrated keyboard before. This >>>> way the >> unit actually may be useful for real work. >>>> >>>> /gustav >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> bheid at sc.rr.com 19-06-12 4:32>>> >>>> It looks like the pro model has USB 3 on it and maybe a display >>>> port. >>>> >>>> Is interesting though. >>>> >>>> Bobby >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>>> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DJK >>>> (John) Robinson >>>> Sent: Monday, June 18, 2012 8:21 PM >>>> To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' >>>> Subject: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range >>>> >>>> The 'mystery' launch of the MS's new Surface tablet has just ended. >>>> >>>> Looks interesting - tablet with stand and keyboard. Thin, >>>> VaporMag, but >>>> only USB2. more than one model: Win8 or RT. >>>> Nice design, though no info on battery life. >>>> >>>> Think I might want one ... >>>> >>>> John >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> dba-Tech mailing list >>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From hans.andersen at phulse.com Thu Jun 21 00:22:54 2012 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:22:54 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range In-Reply-To: <08f101cd4f5a$028c9130$07a5b390$@winhaven.net> References: <449C3ADEF4C1495A8A508D3440E0A614@creativesystemdesigns.com> <08f101cd4f5a$028c9130$07a5b390$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <572D145C-6154-4A0E-B9F5-18D4FBBD83D0@phulse.com> Who are the ones claiming Microsoft stole the concept of a tablet from Apple? It's always been well known from the beginning that Microsoft was the first in this space (just unsuccessfully) to create a full sized tablet, as an evolution of the Palm Pilot / Apple Newton type PDA's. Also, what would a Microsoft presentation be without one of these? :-P http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1zxDa3t0fg Of course, it was Internet Explorer which caused it. No surprise there. :) Hans On 2012-06-20, at 8:00 PM, John Bartow wrote: > check this out :-) > http://9gag.com/gag/4533067 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DJK (John) > Robinson > Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 12:44 PM > To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range > > Don't confuse the OS with the GUI - they really are not the same thing! And > there's no reason a good OS base shouldn't be able to wear different faces > successfully. Not the same as presenting the same GUI on different bases - > NT versus ME anyone?! > > Generally, the public doesn't "pick their OS" (they wouldn't know how to) - > they pick GUI and applications, *and* familiarity. > > John > > From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Jun 21 00:30:28 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:30:28 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] Sometimes you have a bad day In-Reply-To: <08f101cd4f5a$028c9130$07a5b390$@winhaven.net> References: <449C3ADEF4C1495A8A508D3440E0A614@creativesystemdesigns.com> <08f101cd4f5a$028c9130$07a5b390$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: Why didn't I think of this? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-18440979 .... Then a Microsoft presenter attempted to temp fate by breaking one of the universal laws. The law states; "Never try to run sometime, during a presentation, that you haven't tried before." The instant I heard the words, "...never been shown before...", the man was doomed. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1zxDa3t0fg This was sent me and I just couldn't resist posting it. ;-) From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Jun 21 00:33:16 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:33:16 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range In-Reply-To: <572D145C-6154-4A0E-B9F5-18D4FBBD83D0@phulse.com> References: <449C3ADEF4C1495A8A508D3440E0A614@creativesystemdesigns.com><08f101cd4f5a$028c9130$07a5b390$@winhaven.net> <572D145C-6154-4A0E-B9F5-18D4FBBD83D0@phulse.com> Message-ID: <4849B9082CDA4727A8EEC09FBD14A88F@creativesystemdesigns.com> Well, it hasn't been a great day for Apple either: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18529756 ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian Andersen Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 10:23 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range Who are the ones claiming Microsoft stole the concept of a tablet from Apple? It's always been well known from the beginning that Microsoft was the first in this space (just unsuccessfully) to create a full sized tablet, as an evolution of the Palm Pilot / Apple Newton type PDA's. Also, what would a Microsoft presentation be without one of these? :-P http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1zxDa3t0fg Of course, it was Internet Explorer which caused it. No surprise there. :) Hans On 2012-06-20, at 8:00 PM, John Bartow wrote: > check this out :-) > http://9gag.com/gag/4533067 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DJK (John) > Robinson > Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 12:44 PM > To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range > > Don't confuse the OS with the GUI - they really are not the same thing! And > there's no reason a good OS base shouldn't be able to wear different faces > successfully. Not the same as presenting the same GUI on different bases - > NT versus ME anyone?! > > Generally, the public doesn't "pick their OS" (they wouldn't know how to) - > they pick GUI and applications, *and* familiarity. > > John > > _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Jun 21 00:38:55 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:38:55 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range In-Reply-To: References: <449C3ADEF4C1495A8A508D3440E0A614@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <775C348662E746A6AFFF498047069782@creativesystemdesigns.com> "... there's no reason a good OS base shouldn't be able to wear different faces successfully..." I agree with completely. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DJK (John) Robinson Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 10:44 AM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range Don't confuse the OS with the GUI - they really are not the same thing! And there's no reason a good OS base shouldn't be able to wear different faces successfully. Not the same as presenting the same GUI on different bases - NT versus ME anyone?! Generally, the public doesn't "pick their OS" (they wouldn't know how to) - they pick GUI and applications, *and* familiarity. John -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: 20 June 2012 16:59 To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range I think Microsoft will be well advised to stop trying to make one OS all things to all people. It is time their OS was split up, Win8 for tablets, subversion of Win8 for SmartPhones, Basic GUI for their server/cloud-server and other commercial systems and finally a pretty GUI for their PC development, business use and game playing systems. I do think the public is going to do just that, pick their OS, whether MS wishes it or not. Right now there are some excellent, user friendly versions of Linux just waiting for Microsoft to either drop or abandon their PC support. It has now been almost three months since I converted half of a client's PCs to Ubuntu 12.04 and there is hardly been a problem. On site, one bright young lady has taken over the Linux support and she loves it. I think all it will take is a few similar sites, Microsoft leaving behind their PC base, the fading of the fear of Linux distros and if the tide turns... Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian Andersen Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 9:35 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range A tablet of any sort, keyboard or not, surface or alternative, is always going to be a very poor environment for software development. The hardware isn't going to be powerful enough to do serious programming (ie. running Visual Studio or SQL Server) and from what I can tell from the pictures, the keyboard was designed with style in mind rather than function - which is fine for casual use, but I imagine any serious developer will find it frustrating, perhaps to the same extent as with a tiny netbooks keyboard and why thats not a good platform for software development. If you have the money to blow and you are a huge Microsoft fan, then this looks to be a decent tablet and a good attempt by MS, but I honestly would not call it anywhere near the best that is out there and there is nothing ground breaking here. There are plenty of android tablets out there that are pretty good, if an ipad is not your thing and they all have really cool keyboard addons. I am only puzzled why MS let the price be so high, because this is going to be a major sticking point for consumers and when faced with a choice of Windows RT and an iPad or any Android tablet, I think any consumer would go for Android/iPad hands down, because that is what everyone else is using and they have a much more developed eco-system. This is the same reason why Windows Phone 7 is struggling to even make a dent in the mobile market ( ie. its in the 'Other' category meaning it only takes a portion of the 4.8% in this category - from source: http://www.slashgear.com/android-and-ios-swallow-global-smart-device-market- 19234683/ ). Tablets are not development platforms, that's pretty obvious and you'd want a laptop or desktop for that sort of stuff. Businesses have use for tablets, but I guess not in the way you are thinking. I see a lot of businesses switching their POS clients with ipads or using it for conferences and meetings. It makes sense, but if you haven't ever even used one, then I can understand why its a bit hard to imagine. Hans On 2012-06-19, at 8:55 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > I thought we were discussing products strictly on their costs but > because the manufactures are so linked it is difficult to separate > them from the topic. My focus was only on one point, dollar and cents > and nothing to do with " tribal mindset " or any other side issues. > > As soon as you start adding a keyboard the product immediately moves > into the world of laptops and all the functionality that they provide > or in this > case, imply they will provide. > > Pads of all kinds have their place and they do what they do very well > but they are not a business or development machine, plain and simple > and it is a waste of time to make them so. > > I think MS is trying to make a pseudo pad/laptop/business machine and > I have > a hard time getting my head around a product like high-performance > racing dump truck. ;-) > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Hans-Christian Andersen > Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 5:48 PM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range > > I would rather not indulge any irrational and excessive dislike for > Apple products. I'd rather we talk like serious professionals who have > a curiosity > with all things technology, rather than be stuck in a tribal mindset. > > The question I was wondering is whether it makes sense to spend that > much money on a tablet when cheaper, high quality alternatives exist > that satisfy > whatever your needs are - whether it be a portable development > platform > (laptop) or a handy portable device for general email/chat/web > surfing/content consumption etc (tablet). > > - Hans > > Sent from my iPhone > > On 2012-06-19, at 3:25 PM, "Jim Lawrence" wrote: > >> Not that I disagree with you at all but I have been using the very >> same argument with regards to MAC equipment. Why not just buy a nice >> laptop > that >> performs as good or better at half the price? ;-) >> >> Is looks and having the "right" gear that important?...Isn't >> development production more important? >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian >> Andersen >> Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 10:21 AM >> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues >> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range >> >>> Because it will run (my) Windows applications! >> >> Not if you buy the Windows RT ARM version. You will have to buy the > bulkier >> Intel version, which cost $700-1000 from what I understand. At that price, >> you might as well just buy a nice laptop or net book in my opinion. >> Or 2 iPads/Androids with a keyboard attachment. >> >> Best regards, >> Hans-Christian Andersen >> >> >> On 19 Jun 2012, at 10:06, "Gustav Brock" wrote: >> >>> Hi Peter >>> >>> Because it will run (my) Windows applications! >>> >>> That turns the machine from a toy to a tool. What a difference. And >>> with >> the beautiful Metro interface when you use it in tablet mode. >>> >>> Besides, it is even neater than an iPad. I mailed the pictures to my wife >> with minimum comments (busy with other tasks) but she ordered her >> copy > right >> away. >>> >>> /gustav >>> >>> >>>>>> peter.brawley at earthlink.net 19-06-12 18:37 >>> >>> On 2012-06-19 4:40 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: >>>> Official site: >>>> >>>> http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en/us/default.aspx >>>> >>>> I want one. >>> >>> Why, when you can have an android with all those open source and >>> free or >>> nearly free widgets & tools? >>> >>> PB >>> >>> ----- >>> >>>> >>>> /gustav >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> gustav at cactus.dk 19-06-12 8:18>>> >>>> Very neat: >>>> >>>> http://www.bgr.com/nggallery/page-320/album-all/gallery-529/ >>>> >>>> I haven't seen that style of an integrated keyboard before. This >>>> way the >> unit actually may be useful for real work. >>>> >>>> /gustav >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> bheid at sc.rr.com 19-06-12 4:32>>> >>>> It looks like the pro model has USB 3 on it and maybe a display >>>> port. >>>> >>>> Is interesting though. >>>> >>>> Bobby >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>>> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DJK >>>> (John) Robinson >>>> Sent: Monday, June 18, 2012 8:21 PM >>>> To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' >>>> Subject: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range >>>> >>>> The 'mystery' launch of the MS's new Surface tablet has just ended. >>>> >>>> Looks interesting - tablet with stand and keyboard. Thin, >>>> VaporMag, but >>>> only USB2. more than one model: Win8 or RT. >>>> Nice design, though no info on battery life. >>>> >>>> Think I might want one ... >>>> >>>> John >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> dba-Tech mailing list >>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Jun 21 00:47:18 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:47:18 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] Surface In-Reply-To: References: <449C3ADEF4C1495A8A508D3440E0A614@creativesystemdesigns.com><08f101cd4f5a$028c9130$07a5b390$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <1340010C412C4A0EB415BBF65072697A@creativesystemdesigns.com> It seems that the Surface tablet made a good first impression. http://www.zdnet.com/blog/bott/microsofts-new-surface-tablets-make-a-solid-f irst-impression/5142 Jim From hans.andersen at phulse.com Thu Jun 21 00:58:16 2012 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:58:16 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range In-Reply-To: <4849B9082CDA4727A8EEC09FBD14A88F@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <449C3ADEF4C1495A8A508D3440E0A614@creativesystemdesigns.com><08f101cd4f5a$028c9130$07a5b390$@winhaven.net> <572D145C-6154-4A0E-B9F5-18D4FBBD83D0@phulse.com> <4849B9082CDA4727A8EEC09FBD14A88F@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Honestly, we need to throw out the current patent system. It is so broken that it is getting ridiculous and many companies are even feeling forced into being drawn into these patent wars in order to protect their interests. it's stupid. Hans On 2012-06-20, at 10:33 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Well, it hasn't been a great day for Apple either: > http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18529756 ;-) > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian > Andersen > Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 10:23 PM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range > > > Who are the ones claiming Microsoft stole the concept of a tablet from > Apple? It's always been well known from the beginning that Microsoft was the > first in this space (just unsuccessfully) to create a full sized tablet, as > an evolution of the Palm Pilot / Apple Newton type PDA's. > > Also, what would a Microsoft presentation be without one of these? :-P > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1zxDa3t0fg > > Of course, it was Internet Explorer which caused it. No surprise there. :) > > Hans > > > On 2012-06-20, at 8:00 PM, John Bartow wrote: > >> check this out :-) >> http://9gag.com/gag/4533067 >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DJK (John) >> Robinson >> Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 12:44 PM >> To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' >> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range >> >> Don't confuse the OS with the GUI - they really are not the same thing! > And >> there's no reason a good OS base shouldn't be able to wear different faces >> successfully. Not the same as presenting the same GUI on different bases > - >> NT versus ME anyone?! >> >> Generally, the public doesn't "pick their OS" (they wouldn't know how to) > - >> they pick GUI and applications, *and* familiarity. >> >> John >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From hans.andersen at phulse.com Thu Jun 21 00:59:14 2012 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:59:14 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] Sometimes you have a bad day In-Reply-To: References: <449C3ADEF4C1495A8A508D3440E0A614@creativesystemdesigns.com> <08f101cd4f5a$028c9130$07a5b390$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <0C1B6760-BCE1-400F-8783-1C96BC6B1B77@phulse.com> This is brilliant. On 2012-06-20, at 10:30 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Why didn't I think of this? > > http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-18440979 > > .... > > Then a Microsoft presenter attempted to temp fate by breaking one of the > universal laws. The law states; "Never try to run sometime, during a > presentation, that you haven't tried before." > > The instant I heard the words, "...never been shown before...", the man was > doomed. > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1zxDa3t0fg > > This was sent me and I just couldn't resist posting it. ;-) > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From hans.andersen at phulse.com Thu Jun 21 01:03:37 2012 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 23:03:37 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] Surface In-Reply-To: <1340010C412C4A0EB415BBF65072697A@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <449C3ADEF4C1495A8A508D3440E0A614@creativesystemdesigns.com><08f101cd4f5a$028c9130$07a5b390$@winhaven.net> <1340010C412C4A0EB415BBF65072697A@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <7AE47E99-FD4E-43AD-9F76-1B1B7B7A435B@phulse.com> Yikes, its even more expensive than I thought. I thought the RT ARM version was going to be along the same price as a comparable android / ipad tablet, with the intel one being around $700-1000. > How much will these gizmos cost? Microsoft isn?t talking details. The official line is relatively vague: > > Suggested retail pricing will be announced closer to availability and is expected to be competitive with a comparable ARM tablet or Intel Ultrabook-class PC. > > If one assumes that ?comparable ARM tablet? means an iPad equipped with 32 or 64 GB of memory, then the equivalent Windows RT Surface models should cost $600 and $700, respectively. Of course, that price will presumably include the keyboard cover (available as extra-cost add-ons from Apple and third parties). It will also include Microsoft Office. (In my hands-on tests, I was able to try out the Microsoft Office 2013 apps on a Windows RT Surface.) > > As for the Windows 8 Professional Surface, the current crop of Ultrabooks runs $999, give or take a couple hundred dollars. That is, not coincidentally, the starting price of a MacBook Air. > > Of course, one could make the case that a single Surface device is actually two devices in one?a tablet and a keyboard-equipped notebook. If prospective buyers accept that proposition, then a ?competitive? price will seem like a bargain. > On 2012-06-20, at 10:47 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > It seems that the Surface tablet made a good first impression. > > http://www.zdnet.com/blog/bott/microsofts-new-surface-tablets-make-a-solid-f > irst-impression/5142 > > Jim > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Jun 21 01:17:52 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 23:17:52 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range In-Reply-To: References: <449C3ADEF4C1495A8A508D3440E0A614@creativesystemdesigns.com><08f101cd4f5a$028c9130$07a5b390$@winhaven.net><572D145C-6154-4A0E-B9F5-18D4FBBD83D0@phulse.com><4849B9082CDA4727A8EEC09FBD14A88F@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <7B2DD87377924BC7834FF57D79355C37@creativesystemdesigns.com> I could not agree with you more. The patent system started out with all the good intentions of protecting someone's hard work by allowing them to recoup some profits. Now the system has devolved to little more than a joke in which large companies, try to crush the competition or extract a huge toll from them, in punishment. It has all become very unhealthy. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian Andersen Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 10:58 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range Honestly, we need to throw out the current patent system. It is so broken that it is getting ridiculous and many companies are even feeling forced into being drawn into these patent wars in order to protect their interests. it's stupid. Hans On 2012-06-20, at 10:33 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Well, it hasn't been a great day for Apple either: > http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18529756 ;-) > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian > Andersen > Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 10:23 PM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range > > > Who are the ones claiming Microsoft stole the concept of a tablet from > Apple? It's always been well known from the beginning that Microsoft was the > first in this space (just unsuccessfully) to create a full sized tablet, as > an evolution of the Palm Pilot / Apple Newton type PDA's. > > Also, what would a Microsoft presentation be without one of these? :-P > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1zxDa3t0fg > > Of course, it was Internet Explorer which caused it. No surprise there. :) > > Hans > > > On 2012-06-20, at 8:00 PM, John Bartow wrote: > >> check this out :-) >> http://9gag.com/gag/4533067 >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DJK (John) >> Robinson >> Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 12:44 PM >> To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' >> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range >> >> Don't confuse the OS with the GUI - they really are not the same thing! > And >> there's no reason a good OS base shouldn't be able to wear different faces >> successfully. Not the same as presenting the same GUI on different bases > - >> NT versus ME anyone?! >> >> Generally, the public doesn't "pick their OS" (they wouldn't know how to) > - >> they pick GUI and applications, *and* familiarity. >> >> John >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Jun 22 06:54:39 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 04:54:39 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] Web Server In-Reply-To: <7AE47E99-FD4E-43AD-9F76-1B1B7B7A435B@phulse.com> References: <449C3ADEF4C1495A8A508D3440E0A614@creativesystemdesigns.com><08f101cd4f5a$028c9130$07a5b390$@winhaven.net><1340010C412C4A0EB415BBF65072697A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <7AE47E99-FD4E-43AD-9F76-1B1B7B7A435B@phulse.com> Message-ID: <7FC5E7403D294EB9834797C3D6599B8B@creativesystemdesigns.com> Have you ever wondered just how powerful the Linux on your Android Smartphone is? How about making a Webserver on your phone that supports HTML5 development: http://hackaday.com/2012/06/21/using-an-android-as-a-webserver/ It apparently, it can be assembled together using existing apps and services without hacking the phone's OS. Jim From john at winhaven.net Fri Jun 22 15:01:06 2012 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 15:01:06 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Microsoft Surface Tablet: 10 Coolest Features Message-ID: <005001cd50b1$c2ee19f0$48ca4dd0$@winhaven.net> Looks like it has been well thought out: http://www.informationweek.com/news/galleries/hardware/handheld/240002490?pg no=1 From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Jun 22 20:56:47 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 18:56:47 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] Microsoft Surface Tablet: 10 Coolest Features In-Reply-To: <005001cd50b1$c2ee19f0$48ca4dd0$@winhaven.net> References: <005001cd50b1$c2ee19f0$48ca4dd0$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: The big pluses for me, in order of preference and need, is that the tablet has, a stand, two cameras, a real keyboard, a real USB connector, a real Intel i5 cpu (not a toy) and last but definitely not least and the reason I have been avoiding an iPad, a real hard drive. From a toy to a real computer. :-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, June 22, 2012 1:01 PM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: [dba-Tech] Microsoft Surface Tablet: 10 Coolest Features Looks like it has been well thought out: http://www.informationweek.com/news/galleries/hardware/handheld/240002490?pg no=1 _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Fri Jun 22 22:08:46 2012 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 22:08:46 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Microsoft Surface Tablet: 10 Coolest Features In-Reply-To: References: <005001cd50b1$c2ee19f0$48ca4dd0$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <00f101cd50ed$80ec6660$82c53320$@winhaven.net> Agreed! -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Friday, June 22, 2012 8:57 PM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Microsoft Surface Tablet: 10 Coolest Features The big pluses for me, in order of preference and need, is that the tablet has, a stand, two cameras, a real keyboard, a real USB connector, a real Intel i5 cpu (not a toy) and last but definitely not least and the reason I have been avoiding an iPad, a real hard drive. From a toy to a real computer. :-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, June 22, 2012 1:01 PM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: [dba-Tech] Microsoft Surface Tablet: 10 Coolest Features Looks like it has been well thought out: http://www.informationweek.com/news/galleries/hardware/handheld/240002490?pg no=1 _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From hans.andersen at phulse.com Sat Jun 23 03:33:01 2012 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 01:33:01 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] Microsoft Surface Tablet: 10 Coolest Features In-Reply-To: References: <005001cd50b1$c2ee19f0$48ca4dd0$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <6B711EF5-20DD-4F7D-B53E-15300A4C154B@phulse.com> Welcome to the world of paying a decent amount of money for a well designed machine, that perhaps is underpowered compared similarly priced PC laptops and is perhaps so tightly manufactured that you are not able to open it up and upgrade it with off the shelf hardware... and, sure, it's all proprietary now... but it's a platform that provides you a great user experience by your chosen favourite company. And since it is designed top to bottom by said company, this should surely mean that it is also a lot more stable and robust. See? It's not so bad really. If it was, you wouldn't be wanting to buy it. I think this link sums it up really. http://imgur.com/m4BLS ;- ) Hans PS. I'm not making fun of anyone. Only making fun of the arguments I have had to endure, that now apparently don't matter and have gone out the window. ;- ) On 2012-06-22, at 6:56 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > The big pluses for me, in order of preference and need, is that the tablet > has, a stand, two cameras, a real keyboard, a real USB connector, a real > Intel i5 cpu (not a toy) and last but definitely not least and the reason I > have been avoiding an iPad, a real hard drive. From a toy to a real > computer. :-) > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow > Sent: Friday, June 22, 2012 1:01 PM > To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' > Subject: [dba-Tech] Microsoft Surface Tablet: 10 Coolest Features > > Looks like it has been well thought out: > http://www.informationweek.com/news/galleries/hardware/handheld/240002490?pg > no=1 > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Sat Jun 23 06:11:10 2012 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 13:11:10 +0200 Subject: [dba-Tech] Microsoft Surface Tablet: 10 Coolest Features Message-ID: Hi Hans > I think this link sums it up really. Not anymore. Microsoft is on the move: http://techcrunch.com/2012/02/17/new-windows-logo-shows-microsoft-is-going-all-in-with-windows-8/ You'll notice that this is the logo on the front of the Surface models and, I guess, on the upcoming Windows Phone 8 units. /gustav >>> hans.andersen at phulse.com 23-06-12 10:33 >>> Welcome to the world of paying a decent amount of money for a well designed machine, that perhaps is underpowered compared similarly priced PC laptops and is perhaps so tightly manufactured that you are not able to open it up and upgrade it with off the shelf hardware... and, sure, it's all proprietary now... but it's a platform that provides you a great user experience by your chosen favourite company. And since it is designed top to bottom by said company, this should surely mean that it is also a lot more stable and robust. See? It's not so bad really. If it was, you wouldn't be wanting to buy it. I think this link sums it up really. http://imgur.com/m4BLS ;- ) Hans PS. I'm not making fun of anyone. Only making fun of the arguments I have had to endure, that now apparently don't matter and have gone out the window. ;- ) On 2012-06-22, at 6:56 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > The big pluses for me, in order of preference and need, is that the tablet > has, a stand, two cameras, a real keyboard, a real USB connector, a real > Intel i5 cpu (not a toy) and last but definitely not least and the reason I > have been avoiding an iPad, a real hard drive. From a toy to a real > computer. :-) > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow > Sent: Friday, June 22, 2012 1:01 PM > To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' > Subject: [dba-Tech] Microsoft Surface Tablet: 10 Coolest Features > > Looks like it has been well thought out: > http://www.informationweek.com/news/galleries/hardware/handheld/240002490?pgno=1 From hans.andersen at phulse.com Sat Jun 23 06:19:33 2012 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 04:19:33 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] Microsoft Surface Tablet: 10 Coolest Features In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9FCDA66A-E6A5-4B3A-87F0-70FF0C054E5A@phulse.com> Hi Gustav, Thanks for pointing that out. I have updated the link: http://imgur.com/UhN6J Hans On 2012-06-23, at 4:11 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Hans > >> I think this link sums it up really. > > Not anymore. Microsoft is on the move: > > http://techcrunch.com/2012/02/17/new-windows-logo-shows-microsoft-is-going-all-in-with-windows-8/ > > You'll notice that this is the logo on the front of the Surface models and, I guess, on the upcoming Windows Phone 8 units. > > /gustav > > >>>> hans.andersen at phulse.com 23-06-12 10:33 >>> > > Welcome to the world of paying a decent amount of money for a well designed machine, that perhaps is underpowered compared similarly priced PC laptops and is perhaps so tightly manufactured that you are not able to open it up and upgrade it with off the shelf hardware... and, sure, it's all proprietary now... but it's a platform that provides you a great user experience by your chosen favourite company. And since it is designed top to bottom by said company, this should surely mean that it is also a lot more stable and robust. > > See? It's not so bad really. If it was, you wouldn't be wanting to buy it. > > I think this link sums it up really. > > http://imgur.com/m4BLS > > ;- ) > > Hans > > PS. I'm not making fun of anyone. Only making fun of the arguments I have had to endure, that now apparently don't matter and have gone out the window. ;- ) > > > > > > > On 2012-06-22, at 6:56 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > >> The big pluses for me, in order of preference and need, is that the tablet >> has, a stand, two cameras, a real keyboard, a real USB connector, a real >> Intel i5 cpu (not a toy) and last but definitely not least and the reason I >> have been avoiding an iPad, a real hard drive. From a toy to a real >> computer. :-) >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow >> Sent: Friday, June 22, 2012 1:01 PM >> To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' >> Subject: [dba-Tech] Microsoft Surface Tablet: 10 Coolest Features >> >> Looks like it has been well thought out: >> http://www.informationweek.com/news/galleries/hardware/handheld/240002490?pgno=1 > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sat Jun 23 06:22:42 2012 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 21:22:42 +1000 Subject: [dba-Tech] Microsoft Surface Tablet: 10 Coolest Features In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4FE5A702.24167.164BBD1C@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I like the version at the end of the article - four BSODs :) On 23 Jun 2012 at 13:11, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Hans > > > I think this link sums it up really. > > Not anymore. Microsoft is on the move: > > http://techcrunch.com/2012/02/17/new-windows-logo-shows-microsoft-is-going-all-in-with-windows-8/ > > You'll notice that this is the logo on the front of the Surface models and, I guess, on the upcoming Windows Phone 8 units. > > /gustav > > > >>> hans.andersen at phulse.com 23-06-12 10:33 >>> > > Welcome to the world of paying a decent amount of money for a well designed machine, that perhaps is underpowered compared similarly priced PC laptops and is perhaps so tightly manufactured that you are not able to open it up and upgrade it with off the shelf hardware... and, sure, it's all proprietary now... but it's a platform that provides you a great user experience by your chosen favourite company. And since it is designed top to bottom by said company, this should surely mean that it is also a lot more stable and robust. > > See? It's not so bad really. If it was, you wouldn't be wanting to buy it. > > I think this link sums it up really. > > http://imgur.com/m4BLS > > ;- ) > > Hans > > PS. I'm not making fun of anyone. Only making fun of the arguments I have had to endure, that now apparently don't matter and have gone out the window. ;- ) > > > > > > > On 2012-06-22, at 6:56 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > The big pluses for me, in order of preference and need, is that the tablet > > has, a stand, two cameras, a real keyboard, a real USB connector, a real > > Intel i5 cpu (not a toy) and last but definitely not least and the reason I > > have been avoiding an iPad, a real hard drive. From a toy to a real > > computer. :-) > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow > > Sent: Friday, June 22, 2012 1:01 PM > > To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' > > Subject: [dba-Tech] Microsoft Surface Tablet: 10 Coolest Features > > > > Looks like it has been well thought out: > > http://www.informationweek.com/news/galleries/hardware/handheld/240002490?pgno=1 > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From hans.andersen at phulse.com Sat Jun 23 06:34:30 2012 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 04:34:30 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] Microsoft Surface Tablet: 10 Coolest Features In-Reply-To: <4FE5A702.24167.164BBD1C@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4FE5A702.24167.164BBD1C@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <0E7C6CEF-FF1C-417F-97B1-A7979B439958@phulse.com> Very clever :p Hans On 2012-06-23, at 4:22 AM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > I like the version at the end of the article - four BSODs :) > > On 23 Jun 2012 at 13:11, Gustav Brock wrote: > >> Hi Hans >> >>> I think this link sums it up really. >> >> Not anymore. Microsoft is on the move: >> >> http://techcrunch.com/2012/02/17/new-windows-logo-shows-microsoft-is-going-all-in-with-windows-8/ >> >> You'll notice that this is the logo on the front of the Surface models and, I guess, on the upcoming Windows Phone 8 units. >> >> /gustav >> >> >>>>> hans.andersen at phulse.com 23-06-12 10:33 >>> >> >> Welcome to the world of paying a decent amount of money for a well designed machine, that perhaps is underpowered compared similarly priced PC laptops and is perhaps so tightly manufactured that you are not able to open it up and upgrade it with off the shelf hardware... and, sure, it's all proprietary now... but it's a platform that provides you a great user experience by your chosen favourite company. And since it is designed top to bottom by said company, this should surely mean that it is also a lot more stable and robust. >> >> See? It's not so bad really. If it was, you wouldn't be wanting to buy it. >> >> I think this link sums it up really. >> >> http://imgur.com/m4BLS >> >> ;- ) >> >> Hans >> >> PS. I'm not making fun of anyone. Only making fun of the arguments I have had to endure, that now apparently don't matter and have gone out the window. ;- ) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On 2012-06-22, at 6:56 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> >>> The big pluses for me, in order of preference and need, is that the tablet >>> has, a stand, two cameras, a real keyboard, a real USB connector, a real >>> Intel i5 cpu (not a toy) and last but definitely not least and the reason I >>> have been avoiding an iPad, a real hard drive. From a toy to a real >>> computer. :-) >>> >>> Jim >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow >>> Sent: Friday, June 22, 2012 1:01 PM >>> To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' >>> Subject: [dba-Tech] Microsoft Surface Tablet: 10 Coolest Features >>> >>> Looks like it has been well thought out: >>> http://www.informationweek.com/news/galleries/hardware/handheld/240002490?pgno=1 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From peter.brawley at earthlink.net Sat Jun 23 09:16:06 2012 From: peter.brawley at earthlink.net (Peter Brawley) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 09:16:06 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Microsoft Surface Tablet: 10 Coolest Features In-Reply-To: <6B711EF5-20DD-4F7D-B53E-15300A4C154B@phulse.com> References: <005001cd50b1$c2ee19f0$48ca4dd0$@winhaven.net> <6B711EF5-20DD-4F7D-B53E-15300A4C154B@phulse.com> Message-ID: <4FE5CFA6.6030101@earthlink.net> On 2012-06-23 3:33 AM, Hans-Christian Andersen wrote: > Welcome to the world of paying a decent amount of money for a well designed machine, that perhaps is underpowered compared similarly priced PC laptops and is perhaps so tightly manufactured that you are not able to open it up and upgrade it with off the shelf hardware... and, sure, it's all proprietary now... but it's a platform that provides you a great user experience by your chosen favourite company. And since it is designed top to bottom by said company, this should surely mean that it is also a lot more stable and robust. > > See? It's not so bad really. If it was, you wouldn't be wanting to buy it. But I don't :-) , at all. PB ----- > > I think this link sums it up really. > > http://imgur.com/m4BLS > > ;- ) > > Hans > > PS. I'm not making fun of anyone. Only making fun of the arguments I have had to endure, that now apparently don't matter and have gone out the window. ;- ) > > > > > > > On 2012-06-22, at 6:56 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > >> The big pluses for me, in order of preference and need, is that the tablet >> has, a stand, two cameras, a real keyboard, a real USB connector, a real >> Intel i5 cpu (not a toy) and last but definitely not least and the reason I >> have been avoiding an iPad, a real hard drive. From a toy to a real >> computer. :-) >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow >> Sent: Friday, June 22, 2012 1:01 PM >> To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' >> Subject: [dba-Tech] Microsoft Surface Tablet: 10 Coolest Features >> >> Looks like it has been well thought out: >> http://www.informationweek.com/news/galleries/hardware/handheld/240002490?pg >> no=1 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From hans.andersen at phulse.com Sat Jun 23 14:16:56 2012 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 12:16:56 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] Microsoft Surface Tablet: 10 Coolest Features In-Reply-To: <4FE5CFA6.6030101@earthlink.net> References: <005001cd50b1$c2ee19f0$48ca4dd0$@winhaven.net> <6B711EF5-20DD-4F7D-B53E-15300A4C154B@phulse.com> <4FE5CFA6.6030101@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <7939757D-370B-4341-BA39-982137A0EE6A@phulse.com> Peter, Perhaps you might be more interested in the Vivaldi tablet? It's going to run actual Linux on it (not Android) and KDE as the interface and is going to be open source friendly. Best regards, Hans-Christian Andersen On 23 Jun 2012, at 07:16, Peter Brawley wrote: > On 2012-06-23 3:33 AM, Hans-Christian Andersen wrote: >> Welcome to the world of paying a decent amount of money for a well designed machine, that perhaps is underpowered compared similarly priced PC laptops and is perhaps so tightly manufactured that you are not able to open it up and upgrade it with off the shelf hardware... and, sure, it's all proprietary now... but it's a platform that provides you a great user experience by your chosen favourite company. And since it is designed top to bottom by said company, this should surely mean that it is also a lot more stable and robust. >> >> See? It's not so bad really. If it was, you wouldn't be wanting to buy it. > > But I don't :-) , at all. > p > PB > > ----- >> >> I think this link sums it up really. >> >> http://imgur.com/m4BLS >> >> ;- ) >> >> Hans >> >> PS. I'm not making fun of anyone. Only making fun of the arguments I have had to endure, that now apparently don't matter and have gone out the window. ;- ) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On 2012-06-22, at 6:56 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> >>> The big pluses for me, in order of preference and need, is that the tablet >>> has, a stand, two cameras, a real keyboard, a real USB connector, a real >>> Intel i5 cpu (not a toy) and last but definitely not least and the reason I >>> have been avoiding an iPad, a real hard drive. From a toy to a real >>> computer. :-) >>> >>> Jim >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow >>> Sent: Friday, June 22, 2012 1:01 PM >>> To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' >>> Subject: [dba-Tech] Microsoft Surface Tablet: 10 Coolest Features >>> >>> Looks like it has been well thought out: >>> http://www.informationweek.com/news/galleries/hardware/handheld/240002490?pg >>> no=1 >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> dba-Tech mailing list >>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> dba-Tech mailing list >>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From peter.brawley at earthlink.net Sat Jun 23 17:06:50 2012 From: peter.brawley at earthlink.net (Peter Brawley) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 17:06:50 -0500 Subject: [dba-Tech] Microsoft Surface Tablet: 10 Coolest Features In-Reply-To: <7939757D-370B-4341-BA39-982137A0EE6A@phulse.com> References: <005001cd50b1$c2ee19f0$48ca4dd0$@winhaven.net> <6B711EF5-20DD-4F7D-B53E-15300A4C154B@phulse.com> <4FE5CFA6.6030101@earthlink.net> <7939757D-370B-4341-BA39-982137A0EE6A@phulse.com> Message-ID: <4FE63DFA.1050602@earthlink.net> On 2012-06-23 2:16 PM, Hans-Christian Andersen wrote: > Peter, > > Perhaps you might be more interested in the Vivaldi tablet? It's going to run actual Linux on it (not Android) and KDE as the interface and is going to be open source friendly. My Acer Iconia A100 will do for now. PB > > Best regards, > Hans-Christian Andersen > > > On 23 Jun 2012, at 07:16, Peter Brawley wrote: > >> On 2012-06-23 3:33 AM, Hans-Christian Andersen wrote: >>> Welcome to the world of paying a decent amount of money for a well designed machine, that perhaps is underpowered compared similarly priced PC laptops and is perhaps so tightly manufactured that you are not able to open it up and upgrade it with off the shelf hardware... and, sure, it's all proprietary now... but it's a platform that provides you a great user experience by your chosen favourite company. And since it is designed top to bottom by said company, this should surely mean that it is also a lot more stable and robust. >>> >>> See? It's not so bad really. If it was, you wouldn't be wanting to buy it. >> But I don't :-) , at all. >> p >> PB >> >> ----- >>> I think this link sums it up really. >>> >>> http://imgur.com/m4BLS >>> >>> ;- ) >>> >>> Hans >>> >>> PS. I'm not making fun of anyone. Only making fun of the arguments I have had to endure, that now apparently don't matter and have gone out the window. ;- ) >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 2012-06-22, at 6:56 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >>> >>>> The big pluses for me, in order of preference and need, is that the tablet >>>> has, a stand, two cameras, a real keyboard, a real USB connector, a real >>>> Intel i5 cpu (not a toy) and last but definitely not least and the reason I >>>> have been avoiding an iPad, a real hard drive. From a toy to a real >>>> computer. :-) >>>> >>>> Jim >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>>> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow >>>> Sent: Friday, June 22, 2012 1:01 PM >>>> To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' >>>> Subject: [dba-Tech] Microsoft Surface Tablet: 10 Coolest Features >>>> >>>> Looks like it has been well thought out: >>>> http://www.informationweek.com/news/galleries/hardware/handheld/240002490?pg >>>> no=1 >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> dba-Tech mailing list >>>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> dba-Tech mailing list >>>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> dba-Tech mailing list >>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sat Jun 23 22:45:44 2012 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 23:45:44 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] Ruby on Rails installation Message-ID: I installed Ruby 193 this morning, and then (following instructions in a book on Ruby on Rails) issued the following command: gem install rails -r -y and then received the error message: ERROR: while executing gem... Zlib::DataError incorrect header check. I tried some other commands such as: gem help commands gem help examples These work. I have no idea what's wrong or how to fix it. Any ideas? TIA, -- Arthur Cell: 647.710.1314 Prediction is difficult, especially of the future. -- Niels Bohr From hans.andersen at phulse.com Sat Jun 23 23:57:15 2012 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 21:57:15 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] Ruby on Rails installation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4386A2CE-C940-4AC4-B900-52C2F9CC3FDC@phulse.com> You might have to run something like "gem update" first? Hans On 2012-06-23, at 8:45 PM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I installed Ruby 193 this morning, and then (following instructions in a > book on Ruby on Rails) issued the following command: > > gem install rails -r -y > > and then received the error message: > > ERROR: while executing gem... Zlib::DataError > incorrect header check. > > I tried some other commands such as: > > gem help commands > gem help examples > > These work. > > I have no idea what's wrong or how to fix it. > > Any ideas? > > TIA, > -- > Arthur > Cell: 647.710.1314 > > Prediction is difficult, especially of the future. > -- Niels Bohr > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun Jun 24 00:11:00 2012 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2012 15:11:00 +1000 Subject: [dba-Tech] Ruby on Rails installation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4FE6A164.32530.1A1DCB14@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> "Zlib: DataError incorrect header check" means that zlib.dll couldn't process a file. Looks like you have a corrupt zip file in the installation package. Zlib.dll is a massively spiffy yet delicately unobtrusive compression library ( to quote http://www.zlib.net ) which is used in many programs. I use it in any of my applications which need file compression/decompression - it's only 53KB. -- Stuart On 23 Jun 2012 at 23:45, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I installed Ruby 193 this morning, and then (following instructions in a > book on Ruby on Rails) issued the following command: > > gem install rails -r -y > > and then received the error message: > > ERROR: while executing gem... Zlib::DataError > incorrect header check. > > I tried some other commands such as: > > gem help commands > gem help examples > > These work. > > I have no idea what's wrong or how to fix it. > > Any ideas? > > TIA, > -- > Arthur > Cell: 647.710.1314 > > Prediction is difficult, especially of the future. > -- Niels Bohr > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sun Jun 24 06:36:33 2012 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2012 07:36:33 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] Ruby on Rails installation In-Reply-To: <4FE6A164.32530.1A1DCB14@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4FE6A164.32530.1A1DCB14@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Thanks. I just uninstalled it and this time I'll try Bitnami RubyStack and see if the result is better. A. On Sun, Jun 24, 2012 at 1:11 AM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > "Zlib: DataError incorrect header check" means that zlib.dll couldn't > process a file. Looks > like you have a corrupt zip file in the installation package. > > Zlib.dll is a massively spiffy yet delicately unobtrusive compression > library ( to quote > http://www.zlib.net ) which is used in many programs. > > I use it in any of my applications which need file > compression/decompression - it's only 53KB. > > From tinanfields at torchlake.com Sun Jun 24 15:03:58 2012 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2012 16:03:58 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] Microsoft Surface Tablet: 10 Coolest Features In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4FE772AE.7000802@torchlake.com> I love the 'obligatory' image! Why would Microsoft voluntarily connect its newest greatest idea with what we all recognize as the BSOD?!?!? That's just too funny for words! T Tina Norris Fields tinanfields at torchlake.com 231-322-2787 On 6/23/2012 7:11 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Hans > >> I think this link sums it up really. > Not anymore. Microsoft is on the move: > > http://techcrunch.com/2012/02/17/new-windows-logo-shows-microsoft-is-going-all-in-with-windows-8/ > > You'll notice that this is the logo on the front of the Surface models and, I guess, on the upcoming Windows Phone 8 units. > > /gustav > > >>>> hans.andersen at phulse.com 23-06-12 10:33 >>> > Welcome to the world of paying a decent amount of money for a well designed machine, that perhaps is underpowered compared similarly priced PC laptops and is perhaps so tightly manufactured that you are not able to open it up and upgrade it with off the shelf hardware... and, sure, it's all proprietary now... but it's a platform that provides you a great user experience by your chosen favourite company. And since it is designed top to bottom by said company, this should surely mean that it is also a lot more stable and robust. > > See? It's not so bad really. If it was, you wouldn't be wanting to buy it. > > I think this link sums it up really. > > http://imgur.com/m4BLS > > ;- ) > > Hans > > PS. I'm not making fun of anyone. Only making fun of the arguments I have had to endure, that now apparently don't matter and have gone out the window. ;- ) > > > > > > > On 2012-06-22, at 6:56 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > >> The big pluses for me, in order of preference and need, is that the tablet >> has, a stand, two cameras, a real keyboard, a real USB connector, a real >> Intel i5 cpu (not a toy) and last but definitely not least and the reason I >> have been avoiding an iPad, a real hard drive. From a toy to a real >> computer. :-) >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow >> Sent: Friday, June 22, 2012 1:01 PM >> To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' >> Subject: [dba-Tech] Microsoft Surface Tablet: 10 Coolest Features >> >> Looks like it has been well thought out: >> http://www.informationweek.com/news/galleries/hardware/handheld/240002490?pgno=1 > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Mon Jun 25 05:43:35 2012 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2012 06:43:35 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] Canonical App Shown Message-ID: The company behind Ubuntu Linux is running an App Showdown, a contest for developers. If interested, visit http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/06/canonical-launches-ubuntu-app-showdown-contest-to-attract-app-developers/ . -- Arthur Cell: 647.710.1314 Prediction is difficult, especially of the future. -- Niels Bohr From fuller.artful at gmail.com Mon Jun 25 14:50:46 2012 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2012 15:50:46 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] MemSQL Claims to be Fastest Database on the Planet - 80, 000 queries per second Message-ID: Snippet from iProgrammer: Two former Facebook developers have created a new database that they say is the world?s fastest and a video to demonstrate its superiority compared to MySQL. According to former Facebook developers Eric Frenkiel and Nikita Shamgunov, MemSQL, the database they have developed over the past year, is thirty times faster than conventional disk-based databases. The team employed techniques they had used at Facebook to create a database that would be very fast. The key ideas are that SQL code is translated into C++, so avoiding the need to use a slow SQL interpreter, and that the data is kept in memory, with disk read/writes taking place in the background. Shamgunov has excellent credentials in the database world, having worked at Microsoft on SQL Server for six years. He also has several patents to his name, and is a world medalist in ACM programming contests. MemSQL has put together a video showing MySQL versus MemSQL carrying out a sequence of queries, in which MySQL performs at around 3,500 queries per second, while MemSQL achieves around 80,000 queries per second. This is, of course, impressive, but the question remains of how much of this was achieved by clever picking of the queries. What would be interesting would be to see MemSQL running some of the Transaction ProcessingPerformance Council (TPC) tests to see how it performs against known benchmarks. The main reason that MemSQL achieves the speed it does is because of being memory based, with all the benefits and drawbacks in terms of size limits and potential data loss that carries. The documentation says that MemSQL writes back to disk/SSD as soon as the transaction is acknowledged in memory, and that using a combination of write-ahead logging and snapshotting ensures your data is secure. MemSQL is fully compatible with MySQL, giving a clue as to the target audience, and the website describing the product suggests that: *?MemSQL handles terabyte-scale workloads by connecting MemSQL and MySQL nodes together, conferring real-time access for your most valuable data as well as long-term historical lookback?. * MemSQL runs on 64-bit Linux, and is described as ideally suited for machines with multi-core processors and at least 8 GB of RAM. There?s a free developer edition that?s limited to 10 GB in capacity, and a trial edition that supports unlimited storage but is time limited to 30 days. So far, no details of the license fee for commercial use seem to be available. To visit the site click MemSQL . -- Arthur Cell: 647.710.1314 Prediction is difficult, especially of the future. -- Niels Bohr From gustav at cactus.dk Mon Jun 25 15:47:00 2012 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2012 22:47:00 +0200 Subject: [dba-Tech] MemSQL Claims to be Fastest Database on the Planet - 80, 000 queries per second Message-ID: Hi Arthur Looks like an exact replica of Oracle TimesTen: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TimesTen /gustav >>> fuller.artful at gmail.com 25-06-12 21:50 >>> Snippet from iProgrammer: Two former Facebook developers have created a new database that they say is the world's fastest and a video to demonstrate its superiority compared to MySQL. According to former Facebook developers Eric Frenkiel and Nikita Shamgunov, MemSQL, the database they have developed over the past year, is thirty times faster than conventional disk-based databases. The team employed techniques they had used at Facebook to create a database that would be very fast. The key ideas are that SQL code is translated into C++, so avoiding the need to use a slow SQL interpreter, and that the data is kept in memory, with disk read/writes taking place in the background. Shamgunov has excellent credentials in the database world, having worked at Microsoft on SQL Server for six years. He also has several patents to his name, and is a world medalist in ACM programming contests. MemSQL has put together a video showing MySQL versus MemSQL carrying out a sequence of queries, in which MySQL performs at around 3,500 queries per second, while MemSQL achieves around 80,000 queries per second. This is, of course, impressive, but the question remains of how much of this was achieved by clever picking of the queries. What would be interesting would be to see MemSQL running some of the Transaction ProcessingPerformance Council (TPC) tests to see how it performs against known benchmarks. The main reason that MemSQL achieves the speed it does is because of being memory based, with all the benefits and drawbacks in terms of size limits and potential data loss that carries. The documentation says that MemSQL writes back to disk/SSD as soon as the transaction is acknowledged in memory, and that using a combination of write-ahead logging and snapshotting ensures your data is secure. MemSQL is fully compatible with MySQL, giving a clue as to the target audience, and the website describing the product suggests that: *"MemSQL handles terabyte-scale workloads by connecting MemSQL and MySQL nodes together, conferring real-time access for your most valuable data as well as long-term historical lookback". * MemSQL runs on 64-bit Linux, and is described as ideally suited for machines with multi-core processors and at least 8 GB of RAM. There's a free developer edition that's limited to 10 GB in capacity, and a trial edition that supports unlimited storage but is time limited to 30 days. So far, no details of the license fee for commercial use seem to be available. To visit the site click MemSQL . -- Arthur Cell: 647.710.1314 Prediction is difficult, especially of the future. -- Niels Bohr From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon Jun 25 17:31:22 2012 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 08:31:22 +1000 Subject: [dba-Tech] MemSQL Claims to be Fastest Database on the Planet - 80, 000 queries per second In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4FE8E6BA.23507.22FCA589@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Or JC's SQLServer/C++ system where he uses lots of RAM and SSDs -- Stuart On 25 Jun 2012 at 22:47, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Arthur > > Looks like an exact replica of Oracle TimesTen: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TimesTen > > /gustav > > > >>> fuller.artful at gmail.com 25-06-12 21:50 >>> > Snippet from iProgrammer: > > Two former Facebook developers have created a new database that they say is > the world's fastest and a video to demonstrate its superiority compared to > MySQL. > > According to former Facebook developers Eric Frenkiel and Nikita Shamgunov, > MemSQL, the database they have developed over the past year, is thirty > times faster than conventional disk-based databases. > > The team employed techniques they had used at Facebook to create a database > that would be very fast. The key ideas are that SQL code is translated into > C++, so avoiding the need to use a slow SQL interpreter, and that the data > is kept in memory, with disk read/writes taking place in the background. > > Shamgunov has excellent credentials in the database world, having worked at > Microsoft on SQL > Server > for > six years. He also has several patents to his name, and is a world medalist > in ACM programming contests. > > MemSQL has put together a video showing MySQL versus MemSQL carrying out a > sequence of queries, in which MySQL performs at around 3,500 queries per > second, while MemSQL achieves around 80,000 queries per second. > > This is, of course, impressive, but the question remains of how much of > this was achieved by clever picking of the queries. What would be > interesting would be to see MemSQL running some of the Transaction > ProcessingPerformance > Council (TPC) tests to see how it performs against known benchmarks. > > The main reason that MemSQL achieves the speed it does is because of being > memory based, with all the benefits and drawbacks in terms of size limits > and potential data loss that carries. > > The documentation says that MemSQL writes back to disk/SSD as soon as the > transaction is acknowledged in memory, and that using a combination of > write-ahead logging and snapshotting ensures your data is secure. > > MemSQL is fully compatible with MySQL, giving a clue as to the target > audience, and the website describing the product > suggests that: > > *"MemSQL handles terabyte-scale workloads by connecting MemSQL and MySQL > nodes together, conferring real-time access for your most valuable data as > well as long-term historical lookback". * > > MemSQL runs on 64-bit Linux, and is described as ideally suited for > machines with multi-core processors and at least 8 GB of RAM. There's a > free developer edition that's limited to 10 GB in capacity, and a trial > edition that supports unlimited storage but is time limited to 30 days. > > So far, no details of the license fee for commercial use seem to be > available. To visit the site click MemSQL . > > -- > Arthur > Cell: 647.710.1314 > > Prediction is difficult, especially of the future. > -- Niels Bohr > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Jun 25 18:47:33 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2012 16:47:33 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] Canonical App Shown In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <590C939CBEBE47F580528029F093528B@creativesystemdesigns.com> An interesting showdown and some interesting coding going on. Better get your Python skills up to par. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 3:44 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: [dba-Tech] Canonical App Shown The company behind Ubuntu Linux is running an App Showdown, a contest for developers. If interested, visit http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/06/canonical-launches-ubu ntu-app-showdown-contest-to-attract-app-developers/ . -- Arthur Cell: 647.710.1314 Prediction is difficult, especially of the future. -- Niels Bohr _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Jun 25 19:06:35 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2012 17:06:35 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] MemSQL Claims to be Fastest Database on the Planet - 80, 000 queries per second In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44B21A90D0F14610808D447F63BA8BB1@creativesystemdesigns.com> I was wondering how this application could be useful as no matter how much memory in a PC, it will never be enough to run a full database but there is another feature which makes this all possible. According to the company: " MemSQL enables you to connect multiple machines together to store massive amounts of data in memory for lightning fast performance. MemSQL handles terabyte-scale workloads by connecting MemSQL and MySQL nodes together, conferring real-time access for your most valuable data as well as long-term historical lookback. And, MemSQL scales up with multiple CPU cores. Bottom line: the more CPU on the machine, the faster MemSQL can go. " The ability to use banks of computers in a single database instance. It must have similar capabilities of Google and Facebook's system. Every connected computer just becomes another node and their resources are used. This is the part that I find most interesting. I wonder if the application is picky as to the type and quality of box it will include in a cluster? In other wards what is the programs minimum requirements? Is it only expecting server class (16GB or better) or can it still function on boxes with only two and four GBs? Is setting up each node a complex process or is it mostly automated? Anyway it looks very interesting. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 12:51 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: [dba-Tech] MemSQL Claims to be Fastest Database on the Planet - 80, 000 queries per second Snippet from iProgrammer: Two former Facebook developers have created a new database that they say is the world's fastest and a video to demonstrate its superiority compared to MySQL. According to former Facebook developers Eric Frenkiel and Nikita Shamgunov, MemSQL, the database they have developed over the past year, is thirty times faster than conventional disk-based databases. The team employed techniques they had used at Facebook to create a database that would be very fast. The key ideas are that SQL code is translated into C++, so avoiding the need to use a slow SQL interpreter, and that the data is kept in memory, with disk read/writes taking place in the background. Shamgunov has excellent credentials in the database world, having worked at Microsoft on SQL Server for six years. He also has several patents to his name, and is a world medalist in ACM programming contests. MemSQL has put together a video showing MySQL versus MemSQL carrying out a sequence of queries, in which MySQL performs at around 3,500 queries per second, while MemSQL achieves around 80,000 queries per second. This is, of course, impressive, but the question remains of how much of this was achieved by clever picking of the queries. What would be interesting would be to see MemSQL running some of the Transaction ProcessingPerformance Council (TPC) tests to see how it performs against known benchmarks. The main reason that MemSQL achieves the speed it does is because of being memory based, with all the benefits and drawbacks in terms of size limits and potential data loss that carries. The documentation says that MemSQL writes back to disk/SSD as soon as the transaction is acknowledged in memory, and that using a combination of write-ahead logging and snapshotting ensures your data is secure. MemSQL is fully compatible with MySQL, giving a clue as to the target audience, and the website describing the product suggests that: *"MemSQL handles terabyte-scale workloads by connecting MemSQL and MySQL nodes together, conferring real-time access for your most valuable data as well as long-term historical lookback". * MemSQL runs on 64-bit Linux, and is described as ideally suited for machines with multi-core processors and at least 8 GB of RAM. There's a free developer edition that's limited to 10 GB in capacity, and a trial edition that supports unlimited storage but is time limited to 30 days. So far, no details of the license fee for commercial use seem to be available. To visit the site click MemSQL . -- Arthur Cell: 647.710.1314 Prediction is difficult, especially of the future. -- Niels Bohr _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Mon Jun 25 20:28:30 2012 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2012 21:28:30 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] MemSQL Claims to be Fastest Database on the Planet - 80, 000 queries per second In-Reply-To: <44B21A90D0F14610808D447F63BA8BB1@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <44B21A90D0F14610808D447F63BA8BB1@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: In The Google Story, it said that the whole design was to use thousands of off-the-rack boxes and never repair any of them, just swap them out whenever anything broke. So I conclude that there was no necessity to buy server-class machines, but rather lots and lots of consumer boxes, and to regard them as no more important than disposable razors. Which is not of course to say that serious boxes would be wasted. Obviously not. But even buying current boxes one at a time, retail, 8 gigs of RAM and 4 cores are not much money, especially when you don't need a keyboard or monitor or mouse or dvd burner etc. Imagine what the price is when you buy in hundred-lots or thousand-lots. A. On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 8:06 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > I was wondering how this application could be useful as no matter how much > memory in a PC, it will never be enough to run a full database but there is > another feature which makes this all possible. > > According to the company: > " MemSQL enables you to connect multiple machines together to store massive > amounts of data in memory for lightning fast performance. MemSQL handles > terabyte-scale workloads by connecting MemSQL and MySQL nodes together, > conferring real-time access for your most valuable data as well as > long-term > historical lookback. And, MemSQL scales up with multiple CPU cores. Bottom > line: the more CPU on the machine, the faster MemSQL can go. " > > From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Jun 25 21:24:30 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2012 19:24:30 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] MemSQL Claims to be Fastest Database on the Planet - 80, 000 queries per second In-Reply-To: References: <44B21A90D0F14610808D447F63BA8BB1@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <17781B3C51374A72B55864E9C9BEC176@creativesystemdesigns.com> The government surplus recycling distributor was selling lots of old beater boxes, that had 4GB RAM and a 100GB HD, 1.87GHz for $35.00 per box and they were all guaranteed to be in working (functioning) order. They only had XP on them but you would just be installing Debian/Ubuntu on them anyway. The only down side was you had to buy a case-lot of one hundred. But for $3,500, you could build yourself a pretty fair node cluster. You would have to re-wire your house or apartment or course. The good news is you would never have to turn on heat again but you would have to buy share in the local hydro company...can you imagine the costs of running 3 air-conditioners 24x7? Aside: Google has all the computers out of their cases, just the motherboards, plugged in, side by side, in a tower of three or fours levels with big fans at the bottom blowing up, row after row. They have air-conditioning ducts that are big enough to drive a small car down. (That's why they have set up in northern Washington, as who can beat electricity at 0.03 a kilowatt.) And finally, that "high-speed" internet might have to be upgraded; half a dozen broadband 500 connections and your ready for business. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 6:29 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] MemSQL Claims to be Fastest Database on the Planet - 80, 000 queries per second In The Google Story, it said that the whole design was to use thousands of off-the-rack boxes and never repair any of them, just swap them out whenever anything broke. So I conclude that there was no necessity to buy server-class machines, but rather lots and lots of consumer boxes, and to regard them as no more important than disposable razors. Which is not of course to say that serious boxes would be wasted. Obviously not. But even buying current boxes one at a time, retail, 8 gigs of RAM and 4 cores are not much money, especially when you don't need a keyboard or monitor or mouse or dvd burner etc. Imagine what the price is when you buy in hundred-lots or thousand-lots. A. From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Jun 25 23:36:02 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2012 21:36:02 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] HTML5 and sound In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8E8E5CC3BB0E4FBABC3EEA2F4CA485A5@creativesystemdesigns.com> Here is a link to an interesting HTML5 site. Check out the code sample/source which is simple and very elegant. It was only a matter of time before web base apps start replacing desktop applications. It's a cute mashup with a couple of sound feeds, a couple of remote JS libraries and a picture from a classic portal game, I have been told. Aside: "...its a game where you are a person trapped in a giant rat maze controlled by a psychotic robot AI who performs experiments on you, getting you to navigate through puzzles and you have a gun that is able to create entry/exit portals to solve these puzzles..." http://rain.nxe7.com/# (The raining sound is really soothing but since last December it has been too soothing here...but who knows maybe it will be summer soon.) Jim From hans.andersen at phulse.com Tue Jun 26 01:40:10 2012 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2012 23:40:10 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] MemSQL Claims to be Fastest Database on the Planet - 80, 000 queries per second In-Reply-To: <17781B3C51374A72B55864E9C9BEC176@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <44B21A90D0F14610808D447F63BA8BB1@creativesystemdesigns.com> <17781B3C51374A72B55864E9C9BEC176@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <6BFE9A58-E9A8-4AE8-80F5-830E4B70AB13@phulse.com> It's my understanding, however, that MemSQL only supports 64-bit platforms, which most likely means that those machines would have to have to be designed for 64bit processors (following the amd64 spec I would imagine). It's not likely those machines from govt surplus meet those requirements (probably 32bit celerons or whatnot). - Hans Sent from my iPhone On 2012-06-25, at 7:24 PM, "Jim Lawrence" wrote: > The government surplus recycling distributor was selling lots of old beater > boxes, that had 4GB RAM and a 100GB HD, 1.87GHz for $35.00 per box and they > were all guaranteed to be in working (functioning) order. They only had XP > on them but you would just be installing Debian/Ubuntu on them anyway. > > The only down side was you had to buy a case-lot of one hundred. But for > $3,500, you could build yourself a pretty fair node cluster. You would have > to re-wire your house or apartment or course. The good news is you would > never have to turn on heat again but you would have to buy share in the > local hydro company...can you imagine the costs of running 3 > air-conditioners 24x7? > > Aside: Google has all the computers out of their cases, just the > motherboards, plugged in, side by side, in a tower of three or fours levels > with big fans at the bottom blowing up, row after row. They have > air-conditioning ducts that are big enough to drive a small car down. > (That's why they have set up in northern Washington, as who can beat > electricity at 0.03 a kilowatt.) > > And finally, that "high-speed" internet might have to be upgraded; half a > dozen broadband 500 connections and your ready for business. ;-) > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller > Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 6:29 PM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] MemSQL Claims to be Fastest Database on the Planet - > 80, 000 queries per second > > In The Google Story, it said that the whole design was to use thousands of > off-the-rack boxes and never repair any of them, just swap them out > whenever anything broke. So I conclude that there was no necessity to buy > server-class machines, but rather lots and lots of consumer boxes, and to > regard them as no more important than disposable razors. > > Which is not of course to say that serious boxes would be wasted. Obviously > not. But even buying current boxes one at a time, retail, 8 gigs of RAM and > 4 cores are not much money, especially when you don't need a keyboard or > monitor or mouse or dvd burner etc. Imagine what the price is when you buy > in hundred-lots or thousand-lots. > > A. > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Jun 26 06:52:39 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 04:52:39 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] MemSQL Claims to be Fastest Database on the Planet -80, 000 queries per second In-Reply-To: <6BFE9A58-E9A8-4AE8-80F5-830E4B70AB13@phulse.com> References: <44B21A90D0F14610808D447F63BA8BB1@creativesystemdesigns.com><17781B3C51374A72B55864E9C9BEC176@creativesystemdesigns.com> <6BFE9A58-E9A8-4AE8-80F5-830E4B70AB13@phulse.com> Message-ID: <66E84EF8B7A044F992C15CA2F2A1D468@creativesystemdesigns.com> Never would be more like it or waiting until 2020 surplus...or maybe a 64bit would only be the requirement of the master node. Do you have a link to the part on the 64bit requirement? Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian Andersen Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 11:40 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] MemSQL Claims to be Fastest Database on the Planet -80, 000 queries per second It's my understanding, however, that MemSQL only supports 64-bit platforms, which most likely means that those machines would have to have to be designed for 64bit processors (following the amd64 spec I would imagine). It's not likely those machines from govt surplus meet those requirements (probably 32bit celerons or whatnot). - Hans Sent from my iPhone On 2012-06-25, at 7:24 PM, "Jim Lawrence" wrote: > The government surplus recycling distributor was selling lots of old beater > boxes, that had 4GB RAM and a 100GB HD, 1.87GHz for $35.00 per box and they > were all guaranteed to be in working (functioning) order. They only had XP > on them but you would just be installing Debian/Ubuntu on them anyway. > > The only down side was you had to buy a case-lot of one hundred. But for > $3,500, you could build yourself a pretty fair node cluster. You would have > to re-wire your house or apartment or course. The good news is you would > never have to turn on heat again but you would have to buy share in the > local hydro company...can you imagine the costs of running 3 > air-conditioners 24x7? > > Aside: Google has all the computers out of their cases, just the > motherboards, plugged in, side by side, in a tower of three or fours levels > with big fans at the bottom blowing up, row after row. They have > air-conditioning ducts that are big enough to drive a small car down. > (That's why they have set up in northern Washington, as who can beat > electricity at 0.03 a kilowatt.) > > And finally, that "high-speed" internet might have to be upgraded; half a > dozen broadband 500 connections and your ready for business. ;-) > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller > Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 6:29 PM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] MemSQL Claims to be Fastest Database on the Planet - > 80, 000 queries per second > > In The Google Story, it said that the whole design was to use thousands of > off-the-rack boxes and never repair any of them, just swap them out > whenever anything broke. So I conclude that there was no necessity to buy > server-class machines, but rather lots and lots of consumer boxes, and to > regard them as no more important than disposable razors. > > Which is not of course to say that serious boxes would be wasted. Obviously > not. But even buying current boxes one at a time, retail, 8 gigs of RAM and > 4 cores are not much money, especially when you don't need a keyboard or > monitor or mouse or dvd burner etc. Imagine what the price is when you buy > in hundred-lots or thousand-lots. > > A. > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From hans.andersen at phulse.com Tue Jun 26 11:27:46 2012 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 09:27:46 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] MemSQL Claims to be Fastest Database on the Planet -80, 000 queries per second In-Reply-To: <66E84EF8B7A044F992C15CA2F2A1D468@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <44B21A90D0F14610808D447F63BA8BB1@creativesystemdesigns.com><17781B3C51374A72B55864E9C9BEC176@creativesystemdesigns.com> <6BFE9A58-E9A8-4AE8-80F5-830E4B70AB13@phulse.com> <66E84EF8B7A044F992C15CA2F2A1D468@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: I saw it in the article Arthur originally posted (towards the end of the article): http://www.i-programmer.info/news/84-database/4397-memsql-80000-queries-per-second.html# " MemSQL runs on 64-bit Linux, and is described as ideally suited for machines with multi-core processors and at least 8 GB of RAM. There?s a free developer edition that?s limited to 10 GB in capacity, and a trial edition that supports unlimited storage but is time limited to 30 days. " Hans On 2012-06-26, at 4:52 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Never would be more like it or waiting until 2020 surplus...or maybe a 64bit > would only be the requirement of the master node. Do you have a link to the > part on the 64bit requirement? > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian > Andersen > Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 11:40 PM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] MemSQL Claims to be Fastest Database on the Planet > -80, 000 queries per second > > It's my understanding, however, that MemSQL only supports 64-bit platforms, > which most likely means that those machines would have to have to be > designed for 64bit processors (following the amd64 spec I would imagine). > It's not likely those machines from govt surplus meet those requirements > (probably 32bit celerons or whatnot). > > - Hans > > Sent from my iPhone > > On 2012-06-25, at 7:24 PM, "Jim Lawrence" wrote: > >> The government surplus recycling distributor was selling lots of old > beater >> boxes, that had 4GB RAM and a 100GB HD, 1.87GHz for $35.00 per box and > they >> were all guaranteed to be in working (functioning) order. They only had XP >> on them but you would just be installing Debian/Ubuntu on them anyway. >> >> The only down side was you had to buy a case-lot of one hundred. But for >> $3,500, you could build yourself a pretty fair node cluster. You would > have >> to re-wire your house or apartment or course. The good news is you would >> never have to turn on heat again but you would have to buy share in the >> local hydro company...can you imagine the costs of running 3 >> air-conditioners 24x7? >> >> Aside: Google has all the computers out of their cases, just the >> motherboards, plugged in, side by side, in a tower of three or fours > levels >> with big fans at the bottom blowing up, row after row. They have >> air-conditioning ducts that are big enough to drive a small car down. >> (That's why they have set up in northern Washington, as who can beat >> electricity at 0.03 a kilowatt.) >> >> And finally, that "high-speed" internet might have to be upgraded; half a >> dozen broadband 500 connections and your ready for business. ;-) >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller >> Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 6:29 PM >> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues >> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] MemSQL Claims to be Fastest Database on the Planet > - >> 80, 000 queries per second >> >> In The Google Story, it said that the whole design was to use thousands of >> off-the-rack boxes and never repair any of them, just swap them out >> whenever anything broke. So I conclude that there was no necessity to buy >> server-class machines, but rather lots and lots of consumer boxes, and to >> regard them as no more important than disposable razors. >> >> Which is not of course to say that serious boxes would be wasted. > Obviously >> not. But even buying current boxes one at a time, retail, 8 gigs of RAM > and >> 4 cores are not much money, especially when you don't need a keyboard or >> monitor or mouse or dvd burner etc. Imagine what the price is when you buy >> in hundred-lots or thousand-lots. >> >> A. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From hans.andersen at phulse.com Tue Jun 26 11:42:39 2012 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 09:42:39 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] =?windows-1252?q?_Google_Tablet=3A_Finally_Some_Compet?= =?windows-1252?q?ition_for_Apple=92s_iPad_Says_Analyst?= In-Reply-To: <66E84EF8B7A044F992C15CA2F2A1D468@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <44B21A90D0F14610808D447F63BA8BB1@creativesystemdesigns.com><17781B3C51374A72B55864E9C9BEC176@creativesystemdesigns.com> <6BFE9A58-E9A8-4AE8-80F5-830E4B70AB13@phulse.com> <66E84EF8B7A044F992C15CA2F2A1D468@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <24E21CF8-C14C-4F6E-9C59-FABBC5B33F52@phulse.com> http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/breakout/google-nexus-7-finally-competition-apple-ipad-140359164.html " As rumoured, Google?s going to announce a 7-inch, Nexus-branded tablet called the Nexus 7. According to the leak, it?s built by Asus, with a 1.3Ghz quad-core Tegra 3 processor, GeForce 12-core GPU and 1GB of RAM with two different storage variants: 8GB and 16GB. " Looks like Google wants in on the tablet game. - Hans From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Jun 27 19:24:53 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 17:24:53 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] Google Tablet: Finally Some Competition for Apple's iPad Says Analyst In-Reply-To: <24E21CF8-C14C-4F6E-9C59-FABBC5B33F52@phulse.com> References: <44B21A90D0F14610808D447F63BA8BB1@creativesystemdesigns.com><17781B3C51374A72B55864E9C9BEC176@creativesystemdesigns.com><6BFE9A58-E9A8-4AE8-80F5-830E4B70AB13@phulse.com><66E84EF8B7A044F992C15CA2F2A1D468@creativesystemdesigns.com> <24E21CF8-C14C-4F6E-9C59-FABBC5B33F52@phulse.com> Message-ID: <2D37FEFE7132478381A1D117ED5CFCA5@creativesystemdesigns.com> Was reading up on the new Google offering and the performance figures are right up there; supposedly better. Now can they compete of price point. Jim PS: Its official Microsoft bought Yammers (FB/Twitter like but for companies) -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian Andersen Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 9:43 AM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: [dba-Tech] Google Tablet: Finally Some Competition for Apple's iPad Says Analyst http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/breakout/google-nexus-7-finally-competition-a pple-ipad-140359164.html " As rumoured, Google's going to announce a 7-inch, Nexus-branded tablet called the Nexus 7. According to the leak, it's built by Asus, with a 1.3Ghz quad-core Tegra 3 processor, GeForce 12-core GPU and 1GB of RAM with two different storage variants: 8GB and 16GB. " Looks like Google wants in on the tablet game. - Hans _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From hans.andersen at phulse.com Wed Jun 27 19:42:18 2012 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 17:42:18 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] Google Tablet: Finally Some Competition for Apple's iPad Says Analyst In-Reply-To: <2D37FEFE7132478381A1D117ED5CFCA5@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <44B21A90D0F14610808D447F63BA8BB1@creativesystemdesigns.com> <17781B3C51374A72B55864E9C9BEC176@creativesystemdesigns.com> <6BFE9A58-E9A8-4AE8-80F5-830E4B70AB13@phulse.com> <66E84EF8B7A044F992C15CA2F2A1D468@creativesystemdesigns.com> <24E21CF8-C14C-4F6E-9C59-FABBC5B33F52@phulse.com> <2D37FEFE7132478381A1D117ED5CFCA5@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <5546B40F-F912-461C-9412-F4614DC9DA95@phulse.com> So, does this mean you finally want a tablet then? - Hans Sent from my iPhone On 2012-06-27, at 5:24 PM, "Jim Lawrence" wrote: > Was reading up on the new Google offering and the performance figures are > right up there; supposedly better. Now can they compete of price point. > > Jim > > PS: Its official Microsoft bought Yammers (FB/Twitter like but for > companies) > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian > Andersen > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 9:43 AM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: [dba-Tech] Google Tablet: Finally Some Competition for Apple's iPad > Says Analyst > > > > http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/breakout/google-nexus-7-finally-competition-a > pple-ipad-140359164.html > > > " As rumoured, Google's going to announce a 7-inch, Nexus-branded tablet > called the Nexus 7. According to the leak, it's built by Asus, with a > 1.3Ghz quad-core Tegra 3 processor, GeForce 12-core GPU and 1GB of RAM with > two different storage variants: 8GB and 16GB. " > > > Looks like Google wants in on the tablet game. > > > - Hans > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Jun 27 21:10:29 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 19:10:29 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] Google Tablet: Finally Some Competition for Apple'siPad Says Analyst In-Reply-To: <5546B40F-F912-461C-9412-F4614DC9DA95@phulse.com> References: <44B21A90D0F14610808D447F63BA8BB1@creativesystemdesigns.com><17781B3C51374A72B55864E9C9BEC176@creativesystemdesigns.com><6BFE9A58-E9A8-4AE8-80F5-830E4B70AB13@phulse.com><66E84EF8B7A044F992C15CA2F2A1D468@creativesystemdesigns.com><24E21CF8-C14C-4F6E-9C59-FABBC5B33F52@phulse.com><2D37FEFE7132478381A1D117ED5CFCA5@creativesystemdesigns.com> <5546B40F-F912-461C-9412-F4614DC9DA95@phulse.com> Message-ID: <575ABE5AA8A94530B68D9E82E037406D@creativesystemdesigns.com> If there is a tablet with a harddrive, keyboard, 64GB running around $500...now we are talking real turkey. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian Andersen Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 5:42 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Google Tablet: Finally Some Competition for Apple'siPad Says Analyst So, does this mean you finally want a tablet then? - Hans Sent from my iPhone On 2012-06-27, at 5:24 PM, "Jim Lawrence" wrote: > Was reading up on the new Google offering and the performance figures are > right up there; supposedly better. Now can they compete of price point. > > Jim > > PS: Its official Microsoft bought Yammers (FB/Twitter like but for > companies) > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian > Andersen > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 9:43 AM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: [dba-Tech] Google Tablet: Finally Some Competition for Apple's iPad > Says Analyst > > > > http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/breakout/google-nexus-7-finally-competition-a > pple-ipad-140359164.html > > > " As rumoured, Google's going to announce a 7-inch, Nexus-branded tablet > called the Nexus 7. According to the leak, it's built by Asus, with a > 1.3Ghz quad-core Tegra 3 processor, GeForce 12-core GPU and 1GB of RAM with > two different storage variants: 8GB and 16GB. " > > > Looks like Google wants in on the tablet game. > > > - Hans > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From hans.andersen at phulse.com Wed Jun 27 23:28:20 2012 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 21:28:20 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] Google Tablet: Finally Some Competition for Apple'siPad Says Analyst In-Reply-To: <575ABE5AA8A94530B68D9E82E037406D@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <44B21A90D0F14610808D447F63BA8BB1@creativesystemdesigns.com> <17781B3C51374A72B55864E9C9BEC176@creativesystemdesigns.com> <6BFE9A58-E9A8-4AE8-80F5-830E4B70AB13@phulse.com> <66E84EF8B7A044F992C15CA2F2A1D468@creativesystemdesigns.com> <24E21CF8-C14C-4F6E-9C59-FABBC5B33F52@phulse.com> <2D37FEFE7132478381A1D117ED5CFCA5@creativesystemdesigns.com> <5546B40F-F912-461C-9412-F4614DC9DA95@phulse.com> <575ABE5AA8A94530B68D9E82E037406D@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Shouldn't be too long. Just need to wait for SSDs/Flash storage to get cheaper. Best regards, Hans-Christian Andersen On 27 Jun 2012, at 19:10, "Jim Lawrence" wrote: > If there is a tablet with a harddrive, keyboard, 64GB running around > $500...now we are talking real turkey. ;-) > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian > Andersen > Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 5:42 PM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Google Tablet: Finally Some Competition for > Apple'siPad Says Analyst > > So, does this mean you finally want a tablet then? > > - Hans > > Sent from my iPhone > > On 2012-06-27, at 5:24 PM, "Jim Lawrence" wrote: > >> Was reading up on the new Google offering and the performance figures are >> right up there; supposedly better. Now can they compete of price point. >> >> Jim >> >> PS: Its official Microsoft bought Yammers (FB/Twitter like but for >> companies) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian >> Andersen >> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 9:43 AM >> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues >> Subject: [dba-Tech] Google Tablet: Finally Some Competition for Apple's > iPad >> Says Analyst >> >> >> >> > http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/breakout/google-nexus-7-finally-competition-a >> pple-ipad-140359164.html >> >> >> " As rumoured, Google's going to announce a 7-inch, Nexus-branded tablet >> called the Nexus 7. According to the leak, it's built by Asus, with a >> 1.3Ghz quad-core Tegra 3 processor, GeForce 12-core GPU and 1GB of RAM > with >> two different storage variants: 8GB and 16GB. " >> >> >> Looks like Google wants in on the tablet game. >> >> >> - Hans >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Jun 28 20:17:40 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2012 18:17:40 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] Raspberry PI In-Reply-To: References: <44B21A90D0F14610808D447F63BA8BB1@creativesystemdesigns.com><17781B3C51374A72B55864E9C9BEC176@creativesystemdesigns.com><6BFE9A58-E9A8-4AE8-80F5-830E4B70AB13@phulse.com><66E84EF8B7A044F992C15CA2F2A1D468@creativesystemdesigns.com><24E21CF8-C14C-4F6E-9C59-FABBC5B33F52@phulse.com><2D37FEFE7132478381A1D117ED5CFCA5@creativesystemdesigns.com><5546B40F-F912-461C-9412-F4614DC9DA95@phulse.com><575ABE5AA8A94530B68D9E82E037406D@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: So what can you do with your new $40.00 Raspberry PI? The link below says just about anything. http://www.techrepublic.com/photos/anyone-for-pi-mods-and-hacks-for-the-rasp berry-pi/6371651?tag=nl.e099 Jim From ssharkins at gmail.com Fri Jun 29 19:26:07 2012 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2012 20:26:07 -0400 Subject: [dba-Tech] Antique computer Message-ID: <9ECF356FFDCF4E6C88442A53DB6614C9@SusanHarkins> I have a Macintosh Classic II -- cables, mouse, keyboard -- I'm not sure it works. No box, book, or anything like that. I was going to give it away on freecycle until I looked them on on ebay. I don't really think I've got anything of value -- but... does anybody know? Susan H. From hans.andersen at phulse.com Fri Jun 29 20:51:40 2012 From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2012 18:51:40 -0700 Subject: [dba-Tech] Antique computer In-Reply-To: <9ECF356FFDCF4E6C88442A53DB6614C9@SusanHarkins> References: <9ECF356FFDCF4E6C88442A53DB6614C9@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: <351FDF9C-61F4-4A45-9C1D-7D3ED8F00179@phulse.com> Sounds interesting, but where are you based? Shipping cost could be expensive. - Hans Sent from my iPhone On 2012-06-29, at 5:26 PM, "Susan Harkins" wrote: > I have a Macintosh Classic II -- cables, mouse, keyboard -- I'm not sure it works. No box, book, or anything like that. I was going to give it away on freecycle until I looked them on on ebay. I don't really think I've got anything of value -- but... does anybody know? > > > > Susan H. > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com