DJK (John) Robinson
djkr at msn.com
Wed Jun 20 12:43:48 CDT 2012
Don't confuse the OS with the GUI - they really are not the same thing! And there's no reason a good OS base shouldn't be able to wear different faces successfully. Not the same as presenting the same GUI on different bases - NT versus ME anyone?! Generally, the public doesn't "pick their OS" (they wouldn't know how to) - they pick GUI and applications, *and* familiarity. John -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: 20 June 2012 16:59 To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range I think Microsoft will be well advised to stop trying to make one OS all things to all people. It is time their OS was split up, Win8 for tablets, subversion of Win8 for SmartPhones, Basic GUI for their server/cloud-server and other commercial systems and finally a pretty GUI for their PC development, business use and game playing systems. I do think the public is going to do just that, pick their OS, whether MS wishes it or not. Right now there are some excellent, user friendly versions of Linux just waiting for Microsoft to either drop or abandon their PC support. It has now been almost three months since I converted half of a client's PCs to Ubuntu 12.04 and there is hardly been a problem. On site, one bright young lady has taken over the Linux support and she loves it. I think all it will take is a few similar sites, Microsoft leaving behind their PC base, the fading of the fear of Linux distros and if the tide turns... Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian Andersen Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 9:35 PM To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range A tablet of any sort, keyboard or not, surface or alternative, is always going to be a very poor environment for software development. The hardware isn't going to be powerful enough to do serious programming (ie. running Visual Studio or SQL Server) and from what I can tell from the pictures, the keyboard was designed with style in mind rather than function - which is fine for casual use, but I imagine any serious developer will find it frustrating, perhaps to the same extent as with a tiny netbooks keyboard and why thats not a good platform for software development. If you have the money to blow and you are a huge Microsoft fan, then this looks to be a decent tablet and a good attempt by MS, but I honestly would not call it anywhere near the best that is out there and there is nothing ground breaking here. There are plenty of android tablets out there that are pretty good, if an ipad is not your thing and they all have really cool keyboard addons. I am only puzzled why MS let the price be so high, because this is going to be a major sticking point for consumers and when faced with a choice of Windows RT and an iPad or any Android tablet, I think any consumer would go for Android/iPad hands down, because that is what everyone else is using and they have a much more developed eco-system. This is the same reason why Windows Phone 7 is struggling to even make a dent in the mobile market ( ie. its in the 'Other' category meaning it only takes a portion of the 4.8% in this category - from source: http://www.slashgear.com/android-and-ios-swallow-global-smart-device-market- 19234683/ ). Tablets are not development platforms, that's pretty obvious and you'd want a laptop or desktop for that sort of stuff. Businesses have use for tablets, but I guess not in the way you are thinking. I see a lot of businesses switching their POS clients with ipads or using it for conferences and meetings. It makes sense, but if you haven't ever even used one, then I can understand why its a bit hard to imagine. Hans On 2012-06-19, at 8:55 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > I thought we were discussing products strictly on their costs but > because the manufactures are so linked it is difficult to separate > them from the topic. My focus was only on one point, dollar and cents > and nothing to do with " tribal mindset " or any other side issues. > > As soon as you start adding a keyboard the product immediately moves > into the world of laptops and all the functionality that they provide > or in this > case, imply they will provide. > > Pads of all kinds have their place and they do what they do very well > but they are not a business or development machine, plain and simple > and it is a waste of time to make them so. > > I think MS is trying to make a pseudo pad/laptop/business machine and > I have > a hard time getting my head around a product like high-performance > racing dump truck. ;-) > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Hans-Christian Andersen > Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 5:48 PM > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range > > I would rather not indulge any irrational and excessive dislike for > Apple products. I'd rather we talk like serious professionals who have > a curiosity > with all things technology, rather than be stuck in a tribal mindset. > > The question I was wondering is whether it makes sense to spend that > much money on a tablet when cheaper, high quality alternatives exist > that satisfy > whatever your needs are - whether it be a portable development > platform > (laptop) or a handy portable device for general email/chat/web > surfing/content consumption etc (tablet). > > - Hans > > Sent from my iPhone > > On 2012-06-19, at 3:25 PM, "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote: > >> Not that I disagree with you at all but I have been using the very >> same argument with regards to MAC equipment. Why not just buy a nice >> laptop > that >> performs as good or better at half the price? ;-) >> >> Is looks and having the "right" gear that important?...Isn't >> development production more important? >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian >> Andersen >> Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 10:21 AM >> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues >> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range >> >>> Because it will run (my) Windows applications! >> >> Not if you buy the Windows RT ARM version. You will have to buy the > bulkier >> Intel version, which cost $700-1000 from what I understand. At that price, >> you might as well just buy a nice laptop or net book in my opinion. >> Or 2 iPads/Androids with a keyboard attachment. >> >> Best regards, >> Hans-Christian Andersen >> >> >> On 19 Jun 2012, at 10:06, "Gustav Brock" <gustav at cactus.dk> wrote: >> >>> Hi Peter >>> >>> Because it will run (my) Windows applications! >>> >>> That turns the machine from a toy to a tool. What a difference. And >>> with >> the beautiful Metro interface when you use it in tablet mode. >>> >>> Besides, it is even neater than an iPad. I mailed the pictures to my wife >> with minimum comments (busy with other tasks) but she ordered her >> copy > right >> away. >>> >>> /gustav >>> >>> >>>>>> peter.brawley at earthlink.net 19-06-12 18:37 >>> >>> On 2012-06-19 4:40 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: >>>> Official site: >>>> >>>> http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en/us/default.aspx >>>> >>>> I want one. >>> >>> Why, when you can have an android with all those open source and >>> free or >>> nearly free widgets & tools? >>> >>> PB >>> >>> ----- >>> >>>> >>>> /gustav >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> gustav at cactus.dk 19-06-12 8:18>>> >>>> Very neat: >>>> >>>> http://www.bgr.com/nggallery/page-320/album-all/gallery-529/ >>>> >>>> I haven't seen that style of an integrated keyboard before. This >>>> way the >> unit actually may be useful for real work. >>>> >>>> /gustav >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> bheid at sc.rr.com 19-06-12 4:32>>> >>>> It looks like the pro model has USB 3 on it and maybe a display >>>> port. >>>> >>>> Is interesting though. >>>> >>>> Bobby >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>>> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DJK >>>> (John) Robinson >>>> Sent: Monday, June 18, 2012 8:21 PM >>>> To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues' >>>> Subject: [dba-Tech] MS launch of Surface range >>>> >>>> The 'mystery' launch of the MS's new Surface tablet has just ended. >>>> >>>> Looks interesting - tablet with stand and keyboard. Thin, >>>> VaporMag, but >>>> only USB2. more than one model: Win8 or RT. >>>> Nice design, though no info on battery life. >>>> >>>> Think I might want one ... >>>> >>>> John >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> dba-Tech mailing list >>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-Tech mailing list >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com