From hans.andersen at phulse.com  Fri Feb  1 11:37:02 2013
From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen)
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 09:37:02 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Another OS operating system
In-Reply-To: <CAGXtTChyk+ZijwOVCqAfkQiawfJBAmVNA-HhyHgxMoqHfh7iEg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <s1043365.093@cactus.dk>
	<5104EC4A.32251.43DDAC3A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
	<D01BF04F3EAE4F29B4A0C359A53E9426@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<1359324483.96889929@f59.mail.ru>
	<8913B9FCE3044FA9A481C830B907B2EB@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<CAGXtTCgBqFtiOrpCXS1YrB83d2+WX3weqjoJs3pXYS+XXTGBTA@mail.gmail.com>
	<5F266C55-F88A-4193-8CCA-EC767925258D@phulse.com>
	<CAGXtTChyk+ZijwOVCqAfkQiawfJBAmVNA-HhyHgxMoqHfh7iEg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6DCA07CA-9BA7-4288-8D7C-0DA297F37F9F@phulse.com>

Hi Mark,

You are correct. I do have some affection for it, in the sense that it saddens me when technology with great potential that is technically better than the competition dies prematurely because of market realities. BeOS was fast and a really well designed OS. It didn't have tons of legacy junk to complicate things and it was capable of proper multitasking. There are YouTube videos out there that demonstrate just how many system intensive things they were able to run concurrently without the OS breaking a sweat or slowing/stuttering and all on the modest technology we had back then (early pentiums etc).

BeOS was a chance for us to have a clean break - a well thought out OS that was designed to take proper advantage of the more modern hardware and CPU architecture of the time. Instead, what we got were legacy systems that were slowly brought up to modern standard (and, even then, not completely) by means of plugging and patching. And, as a software developer, that makes me sad.

- Hans


On 2013-01-31, at 1:03 AM, Mark Breen <marklbreen at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello Hans-Christian,
> 
> I can see that you had some affection for BeOS,
> 
> thanks for a nice email,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 28 January 2013 09:50, Hans-Christian Andersen
> <hans.andersen at phulse.com>wrote:
> 
>> Hi Mark,
>> 
>> No, Haiku is meant to be binary compatible with BeOS, so it does not run
>> Linux binaries from the outset (but it is entirely possible, of course).
>> 
>> Haiku is not a new OS. It has been around for a while actually. It's been
>> around since the early 2000's. The history behind BeOS was that it was a
>> new operating system that was designed to be heavily multi-core and
>> multi-tasking (remember back in those days when the Pentium Pro machines
>> were actually capable of multiple processors?). The company, Be Inc., was
>> trying to compete in a heavily Windows dominated market and they were
>> selling machines called BeBox's.
>> 
>> Unfortunately, no one was interested in buying anything that wasn't
>> Microsoft at the time, so BeOS never had any traction in the industry,
>> despite being vastly superior (in every way conceivable) to Microsoft
>> Windows.
>> 
>> When Apple was failing to produce an update to their operating system, Mac
>> OS 9, BeOS was one of the two options Apple was considering as being the
>> next update to Apple OS. Unfortunately for Be Inc., Steve Jobs had returned
>> to Apple and was pushing for NeXT, since this was his project prior to
>> (re)joining Apple.
>> 
>> Apple decided to go with NeXT. BeOS's last ditch effort to stay alive
>> among the sharks (Microsoft) failed and the company folded in 2001.
>> 
>> It's a shame. BeOS was an amazing operating system. It was far ahead of
>> everything out there from a technology point of view and it ran circles
>> around every other OS in terms of performance and stability at the time.
>> 
>> Palm then acquired Be Inc and did bugger all with it (as usual), so the
>> Haiku team took it upon themselves to rewrite BeOS and they called it
>> Haiku. It's been in alpha forever because it is enough of a forgotten OS
>> that few people care, but enough care to spend time working on it with a
>> passion.
>> 
>> Unfortunately, Haiku can only claim to be BeOS compatible. They had to
>> rewrite everything, so it isn't really the same OS underneath, but they've
>> done an excellent job considering!
>> 
>> R.I.P. BeOS.
>> 
>> - Hans
>> 
>> 
>> On 2013-01-28, at 1:15 AM, Mark Breen <marklbreen at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hello Jim
>>> 
>>> Do you think that Linux apps will install and run on Haiku?  If not, does
>>> it have future at all?
>>> 
>>> I do admire the vision of anyone that attempts to start a new OS.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 28 January 2013 07:10, Jim Lawrence <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> So here is something interesting...another OSS and it is not Linux
>>>> 
>>>> It is called Haiku. Whether the OS, based on BeOS, will make it past the
>>>> development stage is a question as they are still trying to put enough
>>>> funds
>>>> together to make the dream a reality.
>>>> 
>>>> Below is their site:
>>>> https://www.haiku-os.org/
>>>> 
>>>> Here is a Wikipedia oversight:
>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haiku_(operating_system)
>>>> 
>>>> And a link to many images of the various product screens:
>> http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&sugexp=les%3B&gs_rn=1&gs_ri=hp&cp=8&gs_id=
>> 4&xhr=t&q=Haiku+OS&biw=1174&bih=649&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&um=1&ie=UTF-
>>>> 8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=bSIGUaPJNpCUigLw7oHoDg
>>>> 
>>>> And finally a article from a recent product convert:
>>>> http://blog.leahhanson.us/falling-for-haiku-os.html
>>>> 
>>>> Jim
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> dba-Tech mailing list
>>>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> dba-Tech mailing list
>>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> dba-Tech mailing list
>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From accessd at shaw.ca  Fri Feb  1 11:43:11 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 09:43:11 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] A new search engine
In-Reply-To: <006001cdffea$979818d0$c6c84a70$@winhaven.net>
References: <s1043365.093@cactus.dk>	<5104EC4A.32251.43DDAC3A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>	<D01BF04F3EAE4F29B4A0C359A53E9426@creativesystemdesigns.com>	<1359324483.96889929@f59.mail.ru>	<8913B9FCE3044FA9A481C830B907B2EB@creativesystemdesigns.com>	<CAGXtTCgBqFtiOrpCXS1YrB83d2+WX3weqjoJs3pXYS+XXTGBTA@mail.gmail.com>	<5F266C55-F88A-4193-8CCA-EC767925258D@phulse.com>	<CAGXtTChyk+ZijwOVCqAfkQiawfJBAmVNA-HhyHgxMoqHfh7iEg@mail.gmail.com>	<CAEPJO1hxKDoQfSb_1pr4T3vq5a3Kt6g_7CCEuqSJjDd_n+2rrw@mail.gmail.com>	<007701cdffc4$1cf084d0$56d18e70$@winhaven.net><768B841F-4B99-40AD-B8BF-685D1CBF8A25@phulse.com>
	<006001cdffea$979818d0$c6c84a70$@winhaven.net>
Message-ID: <CD7FC50F1C7946AE8EF19A709D6E2481@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi All:

There are a few search engines out there already, like Google, Bing and even
Wolfram alpha.

Here is a relatively new startup that has a new search engine called
DuckDuckGo. The search engine is still monetized but unlike competitors it
makes a strong emphasize of personal privacy... "...DDG is positioning
themselves as the do not track alternative, keepers of the privacy flame. "
 
http://highscalability.com/blog/2013/1/28/duckduckgo-architecture-1-million-
deep-searches-a-day-and-gr.html

Jim


From john at winhaven.net  Fri Feb  1 11:51:37 2013
From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow)
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 11:51:37 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] A new search engine
In-Reply-To: <CD7FC50F1C7946AE8EF19A709D6E2481@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <s1043365.093@cactus.dk>	<5104EC4A.32251.43DDAC3A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>	<D01BF04F3EAE4F29B4A0C359A53E9426@creativesystemdesigns.com>	<1359324483.96889929@f59.mail.ru>	<8913B9FCE3044FA9A481C830B907B2EB@creativesystemdesigns.com>	<CAGXtTCgBqFtiOrpCXS1YrB83d2+WX3weqjoJs3pXYS+XXTGBTA@mail.gmail.com>	<5F266C55-F88A-4193-8CCA-EC767925258D@phulse.com>	<CAGXtTChyk+ZijwOVCqAfkQiawfJBAmVNA-HhyHgxMoqHfh7iEg@mail.gmail.com>	<CAEPJO1hxKDoQfSb_1pr4T3vq5a3Kt6g_7CCEuqSJjDd_n+2rrw@mail.gmail.com>	<007701cdffc4$1cf084d0$56d18e70$@winhaven.net><768B841F-4B99-40AD-B8BF-685D1CBF8A25@phulse.com>	<006001cdffea$979818d0$c6c84a70$@winhaven.net>
	<CD7FC50F1C7946AE8EF19A709D6E2481@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <00d501ce00a4$c8bd5190$5a37f4b0$@winhaven.net>

Jim,
I've been using it for a few weeks. I think its god for the average user but
not so much for techies :-)


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 11:43 AM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: [dba-Tech] A new search engine

Hi All:

There are a few search engines out there already, like Google, Bing and even
Wolfram alpha.

Here is a relatively new startup that has a new search engine called
DuckDuckGo. The search engine is still monetized but unlike competitors it
makes a strong emphasize of personal privacy... "...DDG is positioning
themselves as the do not track alternative, keepers of the privacy flame. "
 
http://highscalability.com/blog/2013/1/28/duckduckgo-architecture-1-million-
deep-searches-a-day-and-gr.html

Jim

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From john at winhaven.net  Fri Feb  1 11:51:37 2013
From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow)
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 11:51:37 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] web developers struggling with IE
Message-ID: <00d401ce00a4$c89be6e0$59d3b4a0$@winhaven.net>

This may help:
http://www.eweek.com/developer/microsoft-launches-modern.ie-internet-explore
r-testing-resource/



From accessd at shaw.ca  Fri Feb  1 12:13:02 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 10:13:02 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] A new search engine
In-Reply-To: <00d501ce00a4$c8bd5190$5a37f4b0$@winhaven.net>
References: <s1043365.093@cactus.dk>	<5104EC4A.32251.43DDAC3A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>	<D01BF04F3EAE4F29B4A0C359A53E9426@creativesystemdesigns.com>	<1359324483.96889929@f59.mail.ru>	<8913B9FCE3044FA9A481C830B907B2EB@creativesystemdesigns.com>	<CAGXtTCgBqFtiOrpCXS1YrB83d2+WX3weqjoJs3pXYS+XXTGBTA@mail.gmail.com>	<5F266C55-F88A-4193-8CCA-EC767925258D@phulse.com>	<CAGXtTChyk+ZijwOVCqAfkQiawfJBAmVNA-HhyHgxMoqHfh7iEg@mail.gmail.com>	<CAEPJO1hxKDoQfSb_1pr4T3vq5a3Kt6g_7CCEuqSJjDd_n+2rrw@mail.gmail.com>	<007701cdffc4$1cf084d0$56d18e70$@winhaven.net><768B841F-4B99-40AD-B8BF-685D1CBF8A25@phulse.com>	<006001cdffea$979818d0$c6c84a70$@winhaven.net><CD7FC50F1C7946AE8EF19A709D6E2481@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<00d501ce00a4$c8bd5190$5a37f4b0$@winhaven.net>
Message-ID: <F176CF3FD29249AF8D9A3F2E38881128@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi John:

Good to note...but it is still young.

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 9:52 AM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] A new search engine

Jim,
I've been using it for a few weeks. I think its god for the average user but
not so much for techies :-)


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 11:43 AM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: [dba-Tech] A new search engine

Hi All:

There are a few search engines out there already, like Google, Bing and even
Wolfram alpha.

Here is a relatively new startup that has a new search engine called
DuckDuckGo. The search engine is still monetized but unlike competitors it
makes a strong emphasize of personal privacy... "...DDG is positioning
themselves as the do not track alternative, keepers of the privacy flame. "
 
http://highscalability.com/blog/2013/1/28/duckduckgo-architecture-1-million-
deep-searches-a-day-and-gr.html

Jim

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From accessd at shaw.ca  Fri Feb  1 12:17:28 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 10:17:28 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] web developers struggling with IE
In-Reply-To: <00d401ce00a4$c89be6e0$59d3b4a0$@winhaven.net>
References: <00d401ce00a4$c89be6e0$59d3b4a0$@winhaven.net>
Message-ID: <7F88CAA8C68D4AF396DC038131796785@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi John:

That is cool. I guess it is a better option than just ignoring IE, and
putting a warning to all who go to a web site, which is what I have been
doing for the last years or so.

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 9:52 AM
To: DBA-Tech
Subject: [dba-Tech] web developers struggling with IE

This may help:
http://www.eweek.com/developer/microsoft-launches-modern.ie-internet-explore
r-testing-resource/


_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Fri Feb  1 13:00:27 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2013 23:00:27 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech] =?utf-8?q?web_developers_struggling_with_IE?=
In-Reply-To: <7F88CAA8C68D4AF396DC038131796785@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <00d401ce00a4$c89be6e0$59d3b4a0$@winhaven.net>
	<7F88CAA8C68D4AF396DC038131796785@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <1359745227.209006264@f140.mail.ru>

 That's a funny test (be careful it has rather loud music):

http://ie.microsoft.com/testdrive/Performance/PenguinMark/

IE 10: => 207
Google Chrome - Version 24.0.1312.56: => 61

IE 10 outperforms Google Chrome? (Tested on Win8 Pro)
How it comes?

Here IE10 is also ahead:

http://ie.microsoft.com/testdrive/Performance/RoboHornetPro/

http://ie.microsoft.com/testdrive/Performance/Bubbles/

I do not care that much of IE10 is outperforms Chrome in some tests - I just wanted to note the tests are funny :)

-- Shamil

P.S. BTW the tests do not run at all on WinPhone 7.5


???????,  1 ??????? 2013, 10:17 -08:00 ?? "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca>:
>Hi John:
>
>That is cool. I guess it is a better option than just ignoring IE, and
>putting a warning to all who go to a web site, which is what I have been
>doing for the last years or so.
>
>Jim
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From:  dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow
>Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 9:52 AM
>To: DBA-Tech
>Subject: [dba-Tech] web developers struggling with IE
>
>This may help:
>http://www.eweek.com/developer/microsoft-launches-modern.ie-internet-explore
>r-testing-resource/
>
>

From rockysmolin at bchacc.com  Fri Feb  1 15:31:00 2013
From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin)
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 13:31:00 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] A new search engine
In-Reply-To: <00d501ce00a4$c8bd5190$5a37f4b0$@winhaven.net>
References: <s1043365.093@cactus.dk>	<5104EC4A.32251.43DDAC3A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>	<D01BF04F3EAE4F29B4A0C359A53E9426@creativesystemdesigns.com>	<1359324483.96889929@f59.mail.ru>	<8913B9FCE3044FA9A481C830B907B2EB@creativesystemdesigns.com>	<CAGXtTCgBqFtiOrpCXS1YrB83d2+WX3weqjoJs3pXYS+XXTGBTA@mail.gmail.com>	<5F266C55-F88A-4193-8CCA-EC767925258D@phulse.com>	<CAGXtTChyk+ZijwOVCqAfkQiawfJBAmVNA-HhyHgxMoqHfh7iEg@mail.gmail.com>	<CAEPJO1hxKDoQfSb_1pr4T3vq5a3Kt6g_7CCEuqSJjDd_n+2rrw@mail.gmail.com>	<007701cdffc4$1cf084d0$56d18e70$@winhaven.net><768B841F-4B99-40AD-B8BF-685D1CBF8A25@phulse.com>	<006001cdffea$979818d0$c6c84a70$@winhaven.net><CD7FC50F1C7946AE8EF19A709D6E2481@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<00d501ce00a4$c8bd5190$5a37f4b0$@winhaven.net>
Message-ID: <41995502B2FE4860A70B877CD156F611@HAL9007>

I can't figure out what's different about it or why I should use it. Any
reasons?

R 

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 9:52 AM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] A new search engine

Jim,
I've been using it for a few weeks. I think its god for the average user but
not so much for techies :-)


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 11:43 AM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: [dba-Tech] A new search engine

Hi All:

There are a few search engines out there already, like Google, Bing and even
Wolfram alpha.

Here is a relatively new startup that has a new search engine called
DuckDuckGo. The search engine is still monetized but unlike competitors it
makes a strong emphasize of personal privacy... "...DDG is positioning
themselves as the do not track alternative, keepers of the privacy flame. "
 
http://highscalability.com/blog/2013/1/28/duckduckgo-architecture-1-million-
deep-searches-a-day-and-gr.html

Jim

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From hans.andersen at phulse.com  Fri Feb  1 16:22:55 2013
From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen)
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 14:22:55 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] web developers struggling with IE
In-Reply-To: <1359745227.209006264@f140.mail.ru>
References: <00d401ce00a4$c89be6e0$59d3b4a0$@winhaven.net>
	<7F88CAA8C68D4AF396DC038131796785@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<1359745227.209006264@f140.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <9EC0CADA-CD09-4CB6-9D51-BB9F93EB0D30@phulse.com>

> IE 10 outperforms Google Chrome?

On Microsofts own tests? Well tickle me pink :)

- Hans

Sent from my iPhone

On 2013-02-01, at 11:00 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil <mcp2004 at mail.ru> wrote:

> That's a funny test (be careful it has rather loud music):
> 
> http://ie.microsoft.com/testdrive/Performance/PenguinMark/
> 
> IE 10: => 207
> Google Chrome - Version 24.0.1312.56: => 61
> 
> IE 10 outperforms Google Chrome? (Tested on Win8 Pro)
> How it comes?
> 
> Here IE10 is also ahead:
> 
> http://ie.microsoft.com/testdrive/Performance/RoboHornetPro/
> 
> http://ie.microsoft.com/testdrive/Performance/Bubbles/
> 
> I do not care that much of IE10 is outperforms Chrome in some tests - I just wanted to note the tests are funny :)
> 
> -- Shamil
> 
> P.S. BTW the tests do not run at all on WinPhone 7.5
> 
> 
> ???????,  1 ??????? 2013, 10:17 -08:00 ?? "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca>:
>> Hi John:
>> 
>> That is cool. I guess it is a better option than just ignoring IE, and
>> putting a warning to all who go to a web site, which is what I have been
>> doing for the last years or so.
>> 
>> Jim
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From:  dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow
>> Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 9:52 AM
>> To: DBA-Tech
>> Subject: [dba-Tech] web developers struggling with IE
>> 
>> This may help:
>> http://www.eweek.com/developer/microsoft-launches-modern.ie-internet-explore
>> r-testing-resource/
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Fri Feb  1 17:43:14 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2013 03:43:14 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech] =?utf-8?q?web_developers_struggling_with_IE?=
In-Reply-To: <9EC0CADA-CD09-4CB6-9D51-BB9F93EB0D30@phulse.com>
References: <00d401ce00a4$c89be6e0$59d3b4a0$@winhaven.net>
	<1359745227.209006264@f140.mail.ru>
	<9EC0CADA-CD09-4CB6-9D51-BB9F93EB0D30@phulse.com>
Message-ID: <1359762194.967853277@f238.mail.ru>

 Hi Hans --

<<<
?Well tickle me pink :)
>>>
Thank you, that exactly what I meant. :)

But did you try " SunSpider 0.9.1 JavaScript Benchmark"?

IE10: => ? ? ?Total:                 159.6ms +/- 1.7%

Google Chrome - Version 24.0.1312.56: =>? Total:                 232.8ms +/- 5.7%

What about? http://dromaeo.com/?all ??
Not sure how to interpret the tests - I have started them simultaneously on Chrome and IE - no time to finish now - IE is going through tests a bit quicker AFAIS but I can be wrong with my interpretation as result numbers - runs/s - are better for Chrome in average AFAIS.
V8 Benchmark Suite ( http://v8.googlecode.com/svn/data/benchmarks/v3/run.html ) - version  3 - not sure it's a proper test set except last one RegExp related. Thank you.

-- Shamil

???????,  1 ??????? 2013, 14:22 -08:00 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen <hans.andersen at phulse.com>:
>> IE 10 outperforms Google Chrome?
>
>On Microsofts own tests? Well tickle me pink :)
>
>- Hans
>
>Sent from my iPhone
>
>On 2013-02-01, at 11:00 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil < mcp2004 at mail.ru > wrote:
>
>> That's a funny test (be careful it has rather loud music):
>> 
>>  http://ie.microsoft.com/testdrive/Performance/PenguinMark/
>> 
>> IE 10: => 207
>> Google Chrome - Version 24.0.1312.56: => 61
>> 
>> IE 10 outperforms Google Chrome? (Tested on Win8 Pro)
>> How it comes?
>> 
>> Here IE10 is also ahead:
>> 
>>  http://ie.microsoft.com/testdrive/Performance/RoboHornetPro/
>> 
>>  http://ie.microsoft.com/testdrive/Performance/Bubbles/
>> 
>> I do not care that much of IE10 is outperforms Chrome in some tests - I just wanted to note the tests are funny :)
>> 
>> -- Shamil
>> 
>> P.S. BTW the tests do not run at all on WinPhone 7.5
>> 
>> 
>> ???????,  1 ??????? 2013, 10:17 -08:00 ?? "Jim Lawrence" < accessd at shaw.ca >:
>>> Hi John:
>>> 
>>> That is cool. I guess it is a better option than just ignoring IE, and
>>> putting a warning to all who go to a web site, which is what I have been
>>> doing for the last years or so.
>>> 
>>> Jim
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From:  dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>>> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow
>>> Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 9:52 AM
>>> To: DBA-Tech
>>> Subject: [dba-Tech] web developers struggling with IE
>>> 
>>> This may help:
>>>  http://www.eweek.com/developer/microsoft-launches-modern.ie-internet-explore
>>> r-testing-resource/
>> _______________________________________________

From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Fri Feb  1 18:21:04 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2013 04:21:04 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech] =?utf-8?q?http=3A//dromaeo=2Ecom/=3Fjslib_etc=2E_-_IE1?=
 =?utf-8?q?0_and_Chrome_24_javascript_testw_results?=
Message-ID: <1359764464.223237868@f238.mail.ru>

 Hi All --

I have just tried the subj -? http://dromaeo.com/?jslib ?- for IE10 and Chrome 24 on Win8 Prof - here are my results:

Test title ?/ IE 10 result / Google Chrome 24 result

DOM Attributes (Prototype): 400 / 677
DOM Attributes (Prototype): 278 / 890
DOM Events (Prototype): 468 / 197
DOM Events (jQuery): 28 / 25
DOM Modifications (Prototype): 86 / 73
DOM Modifications (jQuery): 264 / 1359 => Stopped
DOM Style (Prototype): 270 / -
DOM Style (jQuery): 124 / -
DOM Traversal (Prototype): 172 / -
DOM Traversal (jQuery): 31 / -

IE 10 used not more than 180MB of RAM while running the tests.
Google Chrome 24 - got at 900MB memory consumption for 'DOM Modifications (jQuery)' test then displayed "Aw, Snap! Something went wrong while displaying this webpage. To continue, reload or go to another page.". I tried to run this test twice for Chrome and it failed both times. I could have been unlucky with it this time.
http://dromaeo.com/?dromaeo
Arrays: 1741/2051
Base 64 Encoding and Decoding: 851 / 1764
Code Evaluations: 1754 / 539
Regular Expressions: 168 / 474
Rotating 3D Cube: 960 / 1505
Strings: 1848 / 3321
IE: http://dromaeo.com/?id=189589 (50MB)
Chrome: http://dromaeo.com/?id=189590 (33MB)

http://dromaeo.com/?dom
DOM Attributes: 196 / 525 
DOM Modifications: 68 / 255
DOM Query: 2137 / 11009
DOM Traversal: 29 / 316
IE: http://dromaeo.com/?id=189591 (230 MB)
Chrome: http://dromaeo.com/?id=189592 (102MB)
Thank you.

-- Shamil?

From hans.andersen at phulse.com  Sat Feb  2 02:15:47 2013
From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen)
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2013 00:15:47 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] web developers struggling with IE
In-Reply-To: <1359762194.967853277@f238.mail.ru>
References: <00d401ce00a4$c89be6e0$59d3b4a0$@winhaven.net>
	<1359745227.209006264@f140.mail.ru>
	<9EC0CADA-CD09-4CB6-9D51-BB9F93EB0D30@phulse.com>
	<1359762194.967853277@f238.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <BCAB0861-FD4D-4750-8F56-5A458C7AF7D7@phulse.com>

When you say you ran them simultaneously, did you mean simultaneously on the same machine or on two identical machines?

Best regards,
Hans-Christian Andersen


On 1 Feb 2013, at 15:43, Salakhetdinov Shamil <mcp2004 at mail.ru> wrote:

> Hi Hans --
> 
> <<<
>  Well tickle me pink :)
> Thank you, that exactly what I meant. :)
> 
> But did you try " SunSpider 0.9.1 JavaScript Benchmark"?
> 
> IE10: =>      Total:                 159.6ms +/- 1.7%
> 
> Google Chrome - Version 24.0.1312.56: =>  Total:                 232.8ms +/- 5.7%
> 
> What about  http://dromaeo.com/?all  ?
> Not sure how to interpret the tests - I have started them simultaneously on Chrome and IE - no time to finish now - IE is going through tests a bit quicker AFAIS but I can be wrong with my interpretation as result numbers - runs/s - are better for Chrome in average AFAIS.
> V8 Benchmark Suite ( http://v8.googlecode.com/svn/data/benchmarks/v3/run.html ) - version  3 - not sure it's a proper test set except last one RegExp related. Thank you.
> 
> -- Shamil
> 
> ???????,  1 ??????? 2013, 14:22 -08:00 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen <hans.andersen at phulse.com>:
>>> IE 10 outperforms Google Chrome?
>> 
>> On Microsofts own tests? Well tickle me pink :)
>> 
>> - Hans
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On 2013-02-01, at 11:00 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil < mcp2004 at mail.ru > wrote:
>> 
>>> That's a funny test (be careful it has rather loud music):
>>> 
>>> http://ie.microsoft.com/testdrive/Performance/PenguinMark/
>>> 
>>> IE 10: => 207
>>> Google Chrome - Version 24.0.1312.56: => 61
>>> 
>>> IE 10 outperforms Google Chrome? (Tested on Win8 Pro)
>>> How it comes?
>>> 
>>> Here IE10 is also ahead:
>>> 
>>> http://ie.microsoft.com/testdrive/Performance/RoboHornetPro/
>>> 
>>> http://ie.microsoft.com/testdrive/Performance/Bubbles/
>>> 
>>> I do not care that much of IE10 is outperforms Chrome in some tests - I just wanted to note the tests are funny :)
>>> 
>>> -- Shamil
>>> 
>>> P.S. BTW the tests do not run at all on WinPhone 7.5
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ???????,  1 ??????? 2013, 10:17 -08:00 ?? "Jim Lawrence" < accessd at shaw.ca >:
>>>> Hi John:
>>>> 
>>>> That is cool. I guess it is a better option than just ignoring IE, and
>>>> putting a warning to all who go to a web site, which is what I have been
>>>> doing for the last years or so.
>>>> 
>>>> Jim
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From:  dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>>>> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow
>>>> Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 9:52 AM
>>>> To: DBA-Tech
>>>> Subject: [dba-Tech] web developers struggling with IE
>>>> 
>>>> This may help:
>>>> http://www.eweek.com/developer/microsoft-launches-modern.ie-internet-explore
>>>> r-testing-resource/
>>> _______________________________________________
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From hans.andersen at phulse.com  Sat Feb  2 02:43:21 2013
From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen)
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2013 00:43:21 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] http://dromaeo.com/?jslib etc. - IE10 and Chrome 24
	javascript testw results
In-Reply-To: <1359764464.223237868@f238.mail.ru>
References: <1359764464.223237868@f238.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <6D841196-60DD-4CC7-9EE7-AF40F5906A58@phulse.com>

Just two issues that i want to point out

Firstly, Dromaeo is not an impartial test. It's made by Mozilla. Shouldn't it be impartial and also from multiple impartial sources?

The other issue I have with Dromaeo is that it crashed the Safari browser on my iPad as well, which says to me that the tests are not purely JavaScript tests, as Safari and Chrome have radically different JavaScript engines.

Best regards,
Hans-Christian Andersen


On 1 Feb 2013, at 16:21, Salakhetdinov Shamil <mcp2004 at mail.ru> wrote:

> Hi All --
> 
> I have just tried the subj -  http://dromaeo.com/?jslib  - for IE10 and Chrome 24 on Win8 Prof - here are my results:
> 
> Test title  / IE 10 result / Google Chrome 24 result
> 
> DOM Attributes (Prototype): 400 / 677
> DOM Attributes (Prototype): 278 / 890
> DOM Events (Prototype): 468 / 197
> DOM Events (jQuery): 28 / 25
> DOM Modifications (Prototype): 86 / 73
> DOM Modifications (jQuery): 264 / 1359 => Stopp
> DOM Style (Prototype): 270 / -
> DOM Style (jQuery): 124 / -
> DOM Traversal (Prototype): 172 / -
> DOM Traversal (jQuery): 31 / -
> 
> IE 10 used not more than 180MB of RAM while running the tests.
> Google Chrome 24 - got at 900MB memory consumption for 'DOM Modifications (jQuery)' test then displayed "Aw, Snap! Something went wrong while displaying this webpage. To continue, reload or go to another page.". I tried to run this test twice for Chrome and it failed both times. I could have been unlucky with it this time.
> http://dromaeo.com/?dromaeo
> Arrays: 1741/2051
> Base 64 Encoding and Decoding: 851 / 1764
> Code Evaluations: 1754 / 539
> Regular Expressions: 168 / 474
> Rotating 3D Cube: 960 / 1505
> Strings: 1848 / 3321
> IE: http://dromaeo.com/?id=189589 (50MB)
> Chrome: http://dromaeo.com/?id=189590 (33MB)
> 
> http://dromaeo.com/?dom
> DOM Attributes: 196 / 525 
> DOM Modifications: 68 / 255
> DOM Query: 2137 / 11009
> DOM Traversal: 29 / 316
> IE: http://dromaeo.com/?id=189591 (230 MB)
> Chrome: http://dromaeo.com/?id=189592 (102MB)
> Thank you.
> 
> -- Shamil 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From Gustav at cactus.dk  Sat Feb  2 05:23:15 2013
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2013 12:23:15 +0100
Subject: [dba-Tech] Contacting the server for information. Press ESC to
	cancel
Message-ID: <s10d054a.055@cactus.dk>

Hi all

This has been bugging us for a while. When browsing folders, reading, or writing, all Office apps could use minutes for this for shared network files and folders. During this, the message above is displayed in the status bar.

Something had to be done.

Searching the web reveals dozens of possible causes none of which seemed valid for our case. So I had to track it down myself and located it to be a simple matter of missing user rights to our DFS. Browse to the bottom for the full story:

http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en/officesetupdeployprevious/thread/f813a327-7707-4292-95fa-3776e66be16b

Like many other cases when first solved, your ever-so-clever comment is "of course".

/gustav


From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Sat Feb  2 11:43:28 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2013 21:43:28 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech] =?utf-8?q?web_developers_struggling_with_IE?=
In-Reply-To: <BCAB0861-FD4D-4750-8F56-5A458C7AF7D7@phulse.com>
References: <00d401ce00a4$c89be6e0$59d3b4a0$@winhaven.net>
	<1359762194.967853277@f238.mail.ru>
	<BCAB0861-FD4D-4750-8F56-5A458C7AF7D7@phulse.com>
Message-ID: <1359827008.970250729@f42.mail.ru>

 Hi Hans --

Same machine, IE and Chrome running as separate browser instances each one on its own display, Win 8 Prof.

Thank you.

-- Shamil


???????,  2 ??????? 2013, 0:15 -08:00 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen <hans.andersen at phulse.com>:
>When you say you ran them simultaneously, did you mean simultaneously on the same machine or on two identical machines?
>
>Best regards,
>Hans-Christian Andersen
>
>
>On 1 Feb 2013, at 15:43, Salakhetdinov Shamil < mcp2004 at mail.ru > wrote:
>
>> Hi Hans --
>> 
>> <<<
>>  Well tickle me pink :)
>> Thank you, that exactly what I meant. :)
>> 
>> But did you try " SunSpider 0.9.1 JavaScript Benchmark"?
>> 
>> IE10: =>      Total:                 159.6ms +/- 1.7%
>> 
>> Google Chrome - Version 24.0.1312.56: =>  Total:                 232.8ms +/- 5.7%
>> 
>> What about  http://dromaeo.com/?all ?
>> Not sure how to interpret the tests - I have started them simultaneously on Chrome and IE - no time to finish now - IE is going through tests a bit quicker AFAIS but I can be wrong with my interpretation as result numbers - runs/s - are better for Chrome in average AFAIS.
>> V8 Benchmark Suite (  http://v8.googlecode.com/svn/data/benchmarks/v3/run.html ) - version  3 - not sure it's a proper test set except last one RegExp related. Thank you.
>> 
>> -- Shamil
>> 
>> ???????,  1 ??????? 2013, 14:22 -08:00 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen < hans.andersen at phulse.com >:
>>>> IE 10 outperforms Google Chrome?
>>> 
>>> On Microsofts own tests? Well tickle me pink :)
>>> 
>>> - Hans
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On 2013-02-01, at 11:00 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil <  mcp2004 at mail.ru > wrote:
>>> 
>>>> That's a funny test (be careful it has rather loud music):
>>>> 
>>>>  http://ie.microsoft.com/testdrive/Performance/PenguinMark/
>>>> 
>>>> IE 10: => 207
>>>> Google Chrome - Version 24.0.1312.56: => 61
>>>> 
>>>> IE 10 outperforms Google Chrome? (Tested on Win8 Pro)
>>>> How it comes?
>>>> 
>>>> Here IE10 is also ahead:
>>>> 
>>>>  http://ie.microsoft.com/testdrive/Performance/RoboHornetPro/
>>>> 
>>>>  http://ie.microsoft.com/testdrive/Performance/Bubbles/
>>>> 
>>>> I do not care that much of IE10 is outperforms Chrome in some tests - I just wanted to note the tests are funny :)
>>>> 
>>>> -- Shamil
>>>> 
>>>> P.S. BTW the tests do not run at all on WinPhone 7.5
>>>>?

From john at winhaven.net  Sat Feb  2 11:55:02 2013
From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow)
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2013 11:55:02 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] Contacting the server for information. Press ESC
	to	cancel
In-Reply-To: <s10d054a.055@cactus.dk>
References: <s10d054a.055@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <01dc01ce016e$6cddf940$4699ebc0$@winhaven.net>

Hi Gustav,
I had a similar comment pop out of my head a few months ago.

Last summer I was asked to upgrade an XP machine to Windows 7. This was a PC
used by all the shift managers and it had a slew of little applications on
it from a multitude of third party vendors. I really didn't want to have to
contact each of them to reinstall and configure all of these little apps -
that could take days!  So I imaged the hard drive and tried "PC Mover" to
migrate everything.

It worked out fairly well (but I still prefer just installing the OS and
apps fresh and moving the files and some settings.) I did have a couple of
problems to fix. Adobe Acrobat 9 did not like the upgrade and I had to
remove it manually. And MS Office 2007 would "reconfigure" every time an
office app was opened. It reminded me of what MS Access goes through when
more than one version is installed.

I just couldn't figure out what was going on to make it behave this way. It
really wasn't a problem but just an annoyance for the staff. A couple of
months went by and one day I had an idea on it. I remoted in and deleted all
the MS Office shortcuts and rebuilt them. Problem solved! I had forgotten to
check with the staff on the issue until yesterday. I stopped in, for the
first time in maybe 6 months, to do some work on their backup system which
was misbehaving and I asked the shift manager about the Office apps. She
says "oh, yes, thanks, it works fine now. We just figured you remoted in and
fixed it." 

LOL, nice to know they remember I'm on the other side ;-)

John B

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 5:23 AM
To: dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: [dba-Tech] Contacting the server for information. Press ESC to
cancel

Like many other cases when first solved, your ever-so-clever comment is "of
course".

/gustav


From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Sat Feb  2 11:55:15 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2013 21:55:15 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech]
 =?utf-8?q?http=3A//dromaeo=2Ecom/=3Fjslib_etc=2E_-_IE1?=
 =?utf-8?q?0_and_Chrome_24_javascript_testw_results?=
In-Reply-To: <6D841196-60DD-4CC7-9EE7-AF40F5906A58@phulse.com>
References: <1359764464.223237868@f238.mail.ru>
	<6D841196-60DD-4CC7-9EE7-AF40F5906A58@phulse.com>
Message-ID: <1359827715.142377674@f42.mail.ru>

 Hi Hans --

I don't care that much how impartial the tests are - after all they made for Mozilla and I've tested IE and Chrome - may I assume the tests are impartial? I suppose I may....

And it doesn't matter for me that IE 10 runs better than Chrome 24 (or Safari) ?or not - AFAIS IE 10 is not bad at all for everyday tasks - am I missing something?

Out of just sport interests I'd be curious to run really impartial Javascript tests on IE10 and compare them with Chrome and Safari - what such tests could be IYO?

AFAIU to test memory leakage issues, which was the case with IE (in the past) the tests should run unattended for quite some time - I can use Hyper-V VM for that long running tests - what tests should I run??

Thank you.

-- Shamil


???????,  2 ??????? 2013, 0:43 -08:00 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen <hans.andersen at phulse.com>:
>Just two issues that i want to point out
>
>Firstly, Dromaeo is not an impartial test. It's made by Mozilla. Shouldn't it be impartial and also from multiple impartial sources?
>
>The other issue I have with Dromaeo is that it crashed the Safari browser on my iPad as well, which says to me that the tests are not purely JavaScript tests, as Safari and Chrome have radically different JavaScript engines.
>
>Best regards,
>Hans-Christian Andersen
>
>
>On 1 Feb 2013, at 16:21, Salakhetdinov Shamil < mcp2004 at mail.ru > wrote:
>
>> Hi All --
>> 
>> I have just tried the subj -  http://dromaeo.com/?jslib - for IE10 and Chrome 24 on Win8 Prof - here are my results:
>> 
>> Test title  / IE 10 result / Google Chrome 24 result
>> 
>> DOM Attributes (Prototype): 400 / 677
>> DOM Attributes (Prototype): 278 / 890
>> DOM Events (Prototype): 468 / 197
>> DOM Events (jQuery): 28 / 25
>> DOM Modifications (Prototype): 86 / 73
>> DOM Modifications (jQuery): 264 / 1359 => Stopp
>> DOM Style (Prototype): 270 / -
>> DOM Style (jQuery): 124 / -
>> DOM Traversal (Prototype): 172 / -
>> DOM Traversal (jQuery): 31 / -
>> 
>> IE 10 used not more than 180MB of RAM while running the tests.
>> Google Chrome 24 - got at 900MB memory consumption for 'DOM Modifications (jQuery)' test then displayed "Aw, Snap! Something went wrong while displaying this webpage. To continue, reload or go to another page.". I tried to run this test twice for Chrome and it failed both times. I could have been unlucky with it this time.
>>  http://dromaeo.com/?dromaeo
>> Arrays: 1741/2051
>> Base 64 Encoding and Decoding: 851 / 1764
>> Code Evaluations: 1754 / 539
>> Regular Expressions: 168 / 474
>> Rotating 3D Cube: 960 / 1505
>> Strings: 1848 / 3321
>> IE:  http://dromaeo.com/?id=189589 (50MB)
>> Chrome:  http://dromaeo.com/?id=189590 (33MB)
>> 
>>  http://dromaeo.com/?dom
>> DOM Attributes: 196 / 525 
>> DOM Modifications: 68 / 255
>> DOM Query: 2137 / 11009
>> DOM Traversal: 29 / 316
>> IE:  http://dromaeo.com/?id=189591 (230 MB)
>> Chrome:  http://dromaeo.com/?id=189592 (102MB)
>> Thank you.
>> 
>> -- Shamil 
>


From hans.andersen at phulse.com  Sat Feb  2 12:13:12 2013
From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen)
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2013 10:13:12 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] web developers struggling with IE
In-Reply-To: <1359827008.970250729@f42.mail.ru>
References: <00d401ce00a4$c89be6e0$59d3b4a0$@winhaven.net>
	<1359762194.967853277@f238.mail.ru>
	<BCAB0861-FD4D-4750-8F56-5A458C7AF7D7@phulse.com>
	<1359827008.970250729@f42.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <7D3856D4-8383-4983-B291-24AEAD751A68@phulse.com>


I would just like to suggest that this may not be an accurate way of testing things, since I wouldn't be all that surprised if Internet Explorer has a higher priority for APIs and hardware resources than other applications do. I would be curious to see if the numbers are any significantly different if the two browsers run the tests individually.

- Hans


On 2013-02-02, at 9:43 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil <mcp2004 at mail.ru> wrote:

> Hi Hans --
> 
> Same machine, IE and Chrome running as separate browser instances each one on its own display, Win 8 Prof.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> -- Shamil
> 
> 
> ???????,  2 ??????? 2013, 0:15 -08:00 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen <hans.andersen at phulse.com>:
>> When you say you ran them simultaneously, did you mean simultaneously on the same machine or on two identical machines?
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> Hans-Christian Andersen
>> 
>> 
>> On 1 Feb 2013, at 15:43, Salakhetdinov Shamil < mcp2004 at mail.ru > wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Hans --
>>> 
>>> <<<
>>> Well tickle me pink :)
>>> Thank you, that exactly what I meant. :)
>>> 
>>> But did you try " SunSpider 0.9.1 JavaScript Benchmark"?
>>> 
>>> IE10: =>      Total:                 159.6ms +/- 1.7%
>>> 
>>> Google Chrome - Version 24.0.1312.56: =>  Total:                 232.8ms +/- 5.7%
>>> 
>>> What about  http://dromaeo.com/?all ?
>>> Not sure how to interpret the tests - I have started them simultaneously on Chrome and IE - no time to finish now - IE is going through tests a bit quicker AFAIS but I can be wrong with my interpretation as result numbers - runs/s - are better for Chrome in average AFAIS.
>>> V8 Benchmark Suite (  http://v8.googlecode.com/svn/data/benchmarks/v3/run.html ) - version  3 - not sure it's a proper test set except last one RegExp related. Thank you.
>>> 
>>> -- Shamil
>>> 
>>> ???????,  1 ??????? 2013, 14:22 -08:00 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen < hans.andersen at phulse.com >:
>>>>> IE 10 outperforms Google Chrome?
>>>> 
>>>> On Microsofts own tests? Well tickle me pink :)
>>>> 
>>>> - Hans
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>> On 2013-02-01, at 11:00 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil <  mcp2004 at mail.ru > wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> That's a funny test (be careful it has rather loud music):
>>>>> 
>>>>> http://ie.microsoft.com/testdrive/Performance/PenguinMark/
>>>>> 
>>>>> IE 10: => 207
>>>>> Google Chrome - Version 24.0.1312.56: => 61
>>>>> 
>>>>> IE 10 outperforms Google Chrome? (Tested on Win8 Pro)
>>>>> How it comes?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Here IE10 is also ahead:
>>>>> 
>>>>> http://ie.microsoft.com/testdrive/Performance/RoboHornetPro/
>>>>> 
>>>>> http://ie.microsoft.com/testdrive/Performance/Bubbles/
>>>>> 
>>>>> I do not care that much of IE10 is outperforms Chrome in some tests - I just wanted to note the tests are funny :)
>>>>> 
>>>>> -- Shamil
>>>>> 
>>>>> P.S. BTW the tests do not run at all on WinPhone 7.5
>>>>>  
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From Gustav at cactus.dk  Sat Feb  2 12:33:31 2013
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2013 19:33:31 +0100
Subject: [dba-Tech] http://dromaeo.com/?jslib etc. - IE10 and Chrome	24
	javascript testw results
Message-ID: <s10d6a15.078@cactus.dk>

Hi Shamil

Oh yes, you are missing that IE-version-whatever per definition is and for ever will be bad cruelware. Microsoft just can't write decent software. It's that simple. To some.

/gustav


>>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 02-02-13 18:55 >>>

- am I missing something?


From hans.andersen at phulse.com  Sat Feb  2 13:01:43 2013
From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen)
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2013 11:01:43 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] http://dromaeo.com/?jslib etc. - IE10 and Chrome 24
	javascript testw results
In-Reply-To: <1359827715.142377674@f42.mail.ru>
References: <1359764464.223237868@f238.mail.ru>
	<6D841196-60DD-4CC7-9EE7-AF40F5906A58@phulse.com>
	<1359827715.142377674@f42.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <0657E67F-1E9E-4309-9F2E-DA91014781AE@phulse.com>


> I don't care that much how impartial the tests are - after all they made for Mozilla and I've tested IE and Chrome - may I assume the tests are impartial? I suppose I may....
> 
> And it doesn't matter for me that IE 10 runs better than Chrome 24 (or Safari)  or not - AFAIS IE 10 is not bad at all for everyday tasks - am I missing something?

It matters because many browsers are implemented differently, but they are all trying to work well enough with the same standard. If a test is designed to work best with your browser (and another one happens to work ok with, but not all of them), then you are testing a non-standard feature. The only thing that has been proven is that Internet Explorer 10 is more compatible with Mozilla Firefox, if you catch my drift. :)

> Out of just sport interests I'd be curious to run really impartial Javascript tests on IE10 and compare them with Chrome and Safari - what such tests could be IYO?

These days, performance is pretty decent across all browsers, so it really doesn't matter at all. The only ones who care are the companies/teams behind the browsers, so when searching for any decent javascript benchmarking sites, you will come across one from microsoft, one from mozilla, one from google, etc.

If you want an impartial test, I might suggest this one:
http://peacekeeper.futuremark.com/

Futuremark is a company which builds benchmarking software (originally for 3D graphics cards). I would trust them a lot more than I would trust a benchmark from any of the above companies.

Another one is: http://www.speed-battle.com/

SunSpider is another, although it is a little questionable about how impartial it is, at least it's not as biased as the others you pointed out and can be included in the data.


- Hans


On 2013-02-02, at 9:55 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil <mcp2004 at mail.ru> wrote:

> Hi Hans --
> 
> I don't care that much how impartial the tests are - after all they made for Mozilla and I've tested IE and Chrome - may I assume the tests are impartial? I suppose I may....
> 
> And it doesn't matter for me that IE 10 runs better than Chrome 24 (or Safari)  or not - AFAIS IE 10 is not bad at all for everyday tasks - am I missing something?
> 
> Out of just sport interests I'd be curious to run really impartial Javascript tests on IE10 and compare them with Chrome and Safari - what such tests could be IYO?
> 
> AFAIU to test memory leakage issues, which was the case with IE (in the past) the tests should run unattended for quite some time - I can use Hyper-V VM for that long running tests - what tests should I run? 
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> -- Shamil
> 
> 
> ???????,  2 ??????? 2013, 0:43 -08:00 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen <hans.andersen at phulse.com>:
>> Just two issues that i want to point out
>> 
>> Firstly, Dromaeo is not an impartial test. It's made by Mozilla. Shouldn't it be impartial and also from multiple impartial sources?
>> 
>> The other issue I have with Dromaeo is that it crashed the Safari browser on my iPad as well, which says to me that the tests are not purely JavaScript tests, as Safari and Chrome have radically different JavaScript engines.
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> Hans-Christian Andersen
>> 
>> 
>> On 1 Feb 2013, at 16:21, Salakhetdinov Shamil < mcp2004 at mail.ru > wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi All --
>>> 
>>> I have just tried the subj -  http://dromaeo.com/?jslib - for IE10 and Chrome 24 on Win8 Prof - here are my results:
>>> 
>>> Test title  / IE 10 result / Google Chrome 24 result
>>> 
>>> DOM Attributes (Prototype): 400 / 677
>>> DOM Attributes (Prototype): 278 / 890
>>> DOM Events (Prototype): 468 / 197
>>> DOM Events (jQuery): 28 / 25
>>> DOM Modifications (Prototype): 86 / 73
>>> DOM Modifications (jQuery): 264 / 1359 => Stopp
>>> DOM Style (Prototype): 270 / -
>>> DOM Style (jQuery): 124 / -
>>> DOM Traversal (Prototype): 172 / -
>>> DOM Traversal (jQuery): 31 / -
>>> 
>>> IE 10 used not more than 180MB of RAM while running the tests.
>>> Google Chrome 24 - got at 900MB memory consumption for 'DOM Modifications (jQuery)' test then displayed "Aw, Snap! Something went wrong while displaying this webpage. To continue, reload or go to another page.". I tried to run this test twice for Chrome and it failed both times. I could have been unlucky with it this time.
>>> http://dromaeo.com/?dromaeo
>>> Arrays: 1741/2051
>>> Base 64 Encoding and Decoding: 851 / 1764
>>> Code Evaluations: 1754 / 539
>>> Regular Expressions: 168 / 474
>>> Rotating 3D Cube: 960 / 1505
>>> Strings: 1848 / 3321
>>> IE:  http://dromaeo.com/?id=189589 (50MB)
>>> Chrome:  http://dromaeo.com/?id=189590 (33MB)
>>> 
>>> http://dromaeo.com/?dom
>>> DOM Attributes: 196 / 525 
>>> DOM Modifications: 68 / 255
>>> DOM Query: 2137 / 11009
>>> DOM Traversal: 29 / 316
>>> IE:  http://dromaeo.com/?id=189591 (230 MB)
>>> Chrome:  http://dromaeo.com/?id=189592 (102MB)
>>> Thank you.
>>> 
>>> -- Shamil 
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From hans.andersen at phulse.com  Sat Feb  2 13:02:22 2013
From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen)
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2013 11:02:22 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] http://dromaeo.com/?jslib etc. - IE10 and Chrome	24
	javascript testw results
In-Reply-To: <s10d6a15.078@cactus.dk>
References: <s10d6a15.078@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <A240F646-7A9B-4319-B6A7-AF53C21D4229@phulse.com>

Nobody said that IE 10 was poorly written software to my knowledge?

- Hans


On 2013-02-02, at 10:33 AM, "Gustav Brock" <Gustav at cactus.dk> wrote:

> Hi Shamil
> 
> Oh yes, you are missing that IE-version-whatever per definition is and for ever will be bad cruelware. Microsoft just can't write decent software. It's that simple. To some.
> 
> /gustav
> 
> 
>>>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 02-02-13 18:55 >>>
> 
> - am I missing something?
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From john at winhaven.net  Sat Feb  2 13:23:02 2013
From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow)
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2013 13:23:02 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] http://dromaeo.com/?jslib etc. - IE10 and
	Chrome	24	javascript testw results
In-Reply-To: <s10d6a15.078@cactus.dk>
References: <s10d6a15.078@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <01f601ce017a$b83bfca0$28b3f5e0$@winhaven.net>

I have had far more problems with Chrome than with any other browser. I have
no idea why. 

The only web public app where Chrome seems to noticeably outperform IE and
FF is Facebook(?). And, well, that's just not enough for me. I have an
office with 12 virtual terminal devices on one speedy workstation. We try to
get everyone to use Chrome (because its supposedly lighter on resources). As
I Walk through the office most people use IE, even after I've taken all the
shortcuts icons off except the menu structure. Apparently only computer
geeks like Chrome on a PC.

I personally don't like Chrome's sparse and restrictive UI. I don't like
that IE10 is following in its footsteps when loaded in Windows 8 tile mode.
I prefer to have a UI with parts that I can turn on/off to suit my personal
tastes. For instance, I prefer my RoboForm toolbar at the top. Call it years
of IE indoctrination but that's just my preference. I cannot do this with
Chrome. With Chrome it has to be an obstructing overlay on the bottom of the
window. I can have the way I want it with IE and FF. So for me Chrome is the
one which forces their way on me.

I'm liking Google less and less since Eric Schmidt took over as CEO. I
didn't care for him at Sun or Novell either. IMO he is to blame for making
Google just another "evil" technology company.

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 12:34 PM
To: dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] http://dromaeo.com/?jslib etc. - IE10 and Chrome 24
javascript testw results

Hi Shamil

Oh yes, you are missing that IE-version-whatever per definition is and for
ever will be bad cruelware. Microsoft just can't write decent software. It's
that simple. To some.

/gustav


>>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 02-02-13 18:55 >>>

- am I missing something?

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From hans.andersen at phulse.com  Sat Feb  2 13:53:58 2013
From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen)
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2013 11:53:58 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] http://dromaeo.com/?jslib etc. - IE10 and Chrome	24
	javascript testw results
In-Reply-To: <01f601ce017a$b83bfca0$28b3f5e0$@winhaven.net>
References: <s10d6a15.078@cactus.dk>
	<01f601ce017a$b83bfca0$28b3f5e0$@winhaven.net>
Message-ID: <70507B2D-D6BC-4757-890D-160525231812@phulse.com>

> Apparently only computer geeks like Chome on a PC.

I'm not sure I'd buy that. Web statistics seem to favour Chrome as the clear winner in general. It cannot be argued that this is because of android, because safari is still the clear lead by leaps and bounds. Source:
http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/02/01/apples-ios-mobile-web-share-calls-into-question-reports-touting-android-sales-supremacy

That must mean that Chrome must be the clear lead on the desktop and I would have a hard time believing that they are all just geeks.

Regarding Eric Schmidt - I agree, I dislike him as well. He's Google's Steve Ballmer, but he's no longer CEO of Google. Sergey Brin took that role back in 2011 - probably for the same reason why Steve Ballmer ought to be fired from Microsoft (being a bad CEO, making poor decisions and damaging your brand, etc).


Best regards,
Hans-Christian Andersen


On 2 Feb 2013, at 11:23, "John Bartow" <john at winhaven.net> wrote:

> I have had far more problems with Chrome than with any other browser. I have
> no idea why. 
> 
> The only web public app where Chrome seems to noticeably outperform IE and
> FF is Facebook(?). And, well, that's just not enough for me. I have an
> office with 12 virtual terminal devices on one speedy workstation. We try to
> get everyone to use Chrome (because its supposedly lighter on resources). As
> I Walk through the office most people use IE, even after I've taken all the
> shortcuts icons off except the menu structure. Apparently only computer
> geeks like Chrome on a PC.
> 
> I personally don't like Chrome's sparse and restrictive UI. I don't like
> that IE10 is following in its footsteps when loaded in Windows 8 tile mode.
> I prefer to have a UI with parts that I can turn on/off to suit my personal
> tastes. For instance, I prefer my RoboForm toolbar at the top. Call it years
> of IE indoctrination but that's just my preference. I cannot do this with
> Chrome. With Chrome it has to be an obstructing overlay on the bottom of the
> window. I can have the way I want it with IE and FF. So for me Chrome is the
> one which forces their way on me.
> 
> I'm liking Google less and less since Eric Schmidt took over as CEO. I
> didn't care for him at Sun or Novell either. IMO he is to blame for making
> Google just another "evil" technology company.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
> Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 12:34 PM
> To: dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com
> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] http://dromaeo.com/?jslib etc. - IE10 and Chrome 24
> javascript testw results
> 
> Hi Shamil
> 
> Oh yes, you are missing that IE-version-whatever per definition is and for
> ever will be bad cruelware. Microsoft just can't write decent software. It's
> that simple. To some.
> 
> /gustav
> 
> 
>>>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 02-02-13 18:55 >>>
> 
> - am I missing something?
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

From john at winhaven.net  Sat Feb  2 14:51:06 2013
From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow)
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2013 14:51:06 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] http://dromaeo.com/?jslib etc. - IE10 and
	Chrome	24	javascript testw results
In-Reply-To: <70507B2D-D6BC-4757-890D-160525231812@phulse.com>
References: <s10d6a15.078@cactus.dk>	<01f601ce017a$b83bfca0$28b3f5e0$@winhaven.net>
	<70507B2D-D6BC-4757-890D-160525231812@phulse.com>
Message-ID: <020001ce0187$05b9abb0$112d0310$@winhaven.net>

How much of that has to do with corporate enforcement pushed by Google
geeks?

I'm just stating what I observe in my travels. Obviously that statistics are
more valid to those who regard statistics as anything other than marketing
;-)

I'm afraid Ballmer has been there too long and done too much damage. As
Schmidt did with Google. I think he changed the mindset of the people at
Google and that's a hard thing to overcome. CEO's play an important role in
regards to that because they are the face of the company and they, of
course, set policy.

Look at Apple. Their CEO was the company. I think if the BoD keeps looking
for the right person it could continue being the leader of brilliant
products. But Tim Cook? IDTS He's an interim placeholder.

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian
Andersen
Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 1:54 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] http://dromaeo.com/?jslib etc. - IE10 and Chrome 24
javascript testw results

> Apparently only computer geeks like Chome on a PC.

I'm not sure I'd buy that. Web statistics seem to favour Chrome as the clear
winner in general. It cannot be argued that this is because of android,
because safari is still the clear lead by leaps and bounds. Source:
http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/02/01/apples-ios-mobile-web-share-calls-
into-question-reports-touting-android-sales-supremacy

That must mean that Chrome must be the clear lead on the desktop and I would
have a hard time believing that they are all just geeks.

Regarding Eric Schmidt - I agree, I dislike him as well. He's Google's Steve
Ballmer, but he's no longer CEO of Google. Sergey Brin took that role back
in 2011 - probably for the same reason why Steve Ballmer ought to be fired
from Microsoft (being a bad CEO, making poor decisions and damaging your
brand, etc).


Best regards,
Hans-Christian Andersen


On 2 Feb 2013, at 11:23, "John Bartow" <john at winhaven.net> wrote:

> I have had far more problems with Chrome than with any other browser. 
> I have no idea why.
> 
> The only web public app where Chrome seems to noticeably outperform IE 
> and FF is Facebook(?). And, well, that's just not enough for me. I 
> have an office with 12 virtual terminal devices on one speedy 
> workstation. We try to get everyone to use Chrome (because its 
> supposedly lighter on resources). As I Walk through the office most 
> people use IE, even after I've taken all the shortcuts icons off 
> except the menu structure. Apparently only computer geeks like Chrome on a
PC.
> 
> I personally don't like Chrome's sparse and restrictive UI. I don't 
> like that IE10 is following in its footsteps when loaded in Windows 8 tile
mode.
> I prefer to have a UI with parts that I can turn on/off to suit my 
> personal tastes. For instance, I prefer my RoboForm toolbar at the 
> top. Call it years of IE indoctrination but that's just my preference. 
> I cannot do this with Chrome. With Chrome it has to be an obstructing 
> overlay on the bottom of the window. I can have the way I want it with 
> IE and FF. So for me Chrome is the one which forces their way on me.
> 
> I'm liking Google less and less since Eric Schmidt took over as CEO. I 
> didn't care for him at Sun or Novell either. IMO he is to blame for 
> making Google just another "evil" technology company.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav 
> Brock
> Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 12:34 PM
> To: dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com
> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] http://dromaeo.com/?jslib etc. - IE10 and 
> Chrome 24 javascript testw results
> 
> Hi Shamil
> 
> Oh yes, you are missing that IE-version-whatever per definition is and 
> for ever will be bad cruelware. Microsoft just can't write decent 
> software. It's that simple. To some.
> 
> /gustav
> 
> 
>>>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 02-02-13 18:55 >>>
> 
> - am I missing something?
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From john at winhaven.net  Sat Feb  2 15:11:55 2013
From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow)
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2013 15:11:55 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] http://dromaeo.com/?jslib etc. - IE10
	and	Chrome	24	javascript testw results
In-Reply-To: <020001ce0187$05b9abb0$112d0310$@winhaven.net>
References: <s10d6a15.078@cactus.dk>	<01f601ce017a$b83bfca0$28b3f5e0$@winhaven.net>	<70507B2D-D6BC-4757-890D-160525231812@phulse.com>
	<020001ce0187$05b9abb0$112d0310$@winhaven.net>
Message-ID: <020401ce0189$eea98f00$cbfcad00$@winhaven.net>

Speaking of evil, can't find the Spotify mobile app on the android app site
anymore. I suppose their own music play app is at odds with Spotify so they
removed it. (just conjecture).

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow
Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 2:51 PM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] http://dromaeo.com/?jslib etc. - IE10 and Chrome 24
javascript testw results

How much of that has to do with corporate enforcement pushed by Google
geeks?

I'm just stating what I observe in my travels. Obviously that statistics are
more valid to those who regard statistics as anything other than marketing
;-)

I'm afraid Ballmer has been there too long and done too much damage. As
Schmidt did with Google. I think he changed the mindset of the people at
Google and that's a hard thing to overcome. CEO's play an important role in
regards to that because they are the face of the company and they, of
course, set policy.

Look at Apple. Their CEO was the company. I think if the BoD keeps looking
for the right person it could continue being the leader of brilliant
products. But Tim Cook? IDTS He's an interim placeholder.

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian
Andersen
Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 1:54 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] http://dromaeo.com/?jslib etc. - IE10 and Chrome 24
javascript testw results

> Apparently only computer geeks like Chome on a PC.

I'm not sure I'd buy that. Web statistics seem to favour Chrome as the clear
winner in general. It cannot be argued that this is because of android,
because safari is still the clear lead by leaps and bounds. Source:
http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/02/01/apples-ios-mobile-web-share-calls-
into-question-reports-touting-android-sales-supremacy

That must mean that Chrome must be the clear lead on the desktop and I would
have a hard time believing that they are all just geeks.

Regarding Eric Schmidt - I agree, I dislike him as well. He's Google's Steve
Ballmer, but he's no longer CEO of Google. Sergey Brin took that role back
in 2011 - probably for the same reason why Steve Ballmer ought to be fired
from Microsoft (being a bad CEO, making poor decisions and damaging your
brand, etc).


Best regards,
Hans-Christian Andersen


On 2 Feb 2013, at 11:23, "John Bartow" <john at winhaven.net> wrote:

> I have had far more problems with Chrome than with any other browser. 
> I have no idea why.
> 
> The only web public app where Chrome seems to noticeably outperform IE 
> and FF is Facebook(?). And, well, that's just not enough for me. I 
> have an office with 12 virtual terminal devices on one speedy 
> workstation. We try to get everyone to use Chrome (because its 
> supposedly lighter on resources). As I Walk through the office most 
> people use IE, even after I've taken all the shortcuts icons off 
> except the menu structure. Apparently only computer geeks like Chrome 
> on a
PC.
> 
> I personally don't like Chrome's sparse and restrictive UI. I don't 
> like that IE10 is following in its footsteps when loaded in Windows 8 
> tile
mode.
> I prefer to have a UI with parts that I can turn on/off to suit my 
> personal tastes. For instance, I prefer my RoboForm toolbar at the 
> top. Call it years of IE indoctrination but that's just my preference.
> I cannot do this with Chrome. With Chrome it has to be an obstructing 
> overlay on the bottom of the window. I can have the way I want it with 
> IE and FF. So for me Chrome is the one which forces their way on me.
> 
> I'm liking Google less and less since Eric Schmidt took over as CEO. I 
> didn't care for him at Sun or Novell either. IMO he is to blame for 
> making Google just another "evil" technology company.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav 
> Brock
> Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 12:34 PM
> To: dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com
> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] http://dromaeo.com/?jslib etc. - IE10 and 
> Chrome 24 javascript testw results
> 
> Hi Shamil
> 
> Oh yes, you are missing that IE-version-whatever per definition is and 
> for ever will be bad cruelware. Microsoft just can't write decent 
> software. It's that simple. To some.
> 
> /gustav
> 
> 
>>>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 02-02-13 18:55 >>>
> 
> - am I missing something?
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From accessd at shaw.ca  Sat Feb  2 15:38:41 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2013 13:38:41 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] web developers struggling with IE
In-Reply-To: <1359827008.970250729@f42.mail.ru>
References: <00d401ce00a4$c89be6e0$59d3b4a0$@winhaven.net><1359762194.967853277@f238.mail.ru><BCAB0861-FD4D-4750-8F56-5A458C7AF7D7@phulse.com>
	<1359827008.970250729@f42.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <00EC1C40C4AF49398E544D37BF1476B7@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi All:

I have not ran any tests myself one way or the other so I can hardly comment
on the performance of one browser against the other. 

Here is test Lifehacker, a techy site, that has produced "pretty" good
testing results from all sort of application; backups, installs, virus
scanning apps and so on. From them here is the latest browser test results
(January 15, 2013)

http://lifehacker.com/browser-speed-tests/

I really care little how well a browser specifically performs as all I
expect is that the browser tries to stick to the standards. Outside that if
the browser is running too slow, it is most likely that I am trying to make
a single page do too much so I just split it up, reduce the picture sizes
and move anything (major) data related to the server. Proper design can
resolve a host of performance issues.

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov
Shamil
Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 9:43 AM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] web developers struggling with IE

 Hi Hans --

Same machine, IE and Chrome running as separate browser instances each one
on its own display, Win 8 Prof.

Thank you.

-- Shamil


???????,  2 ??????? 2013, 0:15 -08:00 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen
<hans.andersen at phulse.com>:
>When you say you ran them simultaneously, did you mean simultaneously on
the same machine or on two identical machines?
>
>Best regards,
>Hans-Christian Andersen
>
>
>On 1 Feb 2013, at 15:43, Salakhetdinov Shamil < mcp2004 at mail.ru > wrote:
>
>> Hi Hans --
>> 
>> <<<
>>  Well tickle me pink :)
>> Thank you, that exactly what I meant. :)
>> 
>> But did you try " SunSpider 0.9.1 JavaScript Benchmark"?
>> 
>> IE10: =>      Total:                 159.6ms +/- 1.7%
>> 
>> Google Chrome - Version 24.0.1312.56: =>  Total:                 232.8ms
+/- 5.7%
>> 
>> What about  http://dromaeo.com/?all ?
>> Not sure how to interpret the tests - I have started them simultaneously
on Chrome and IE - no time to finish now - IE is going through tests a bit
quicker AFAIS but I can be wrong with my interpretation as result numbers -
runs/s - are better for Chrome in average AFAIS.
>> V8 Benchmark Suite (
http://v8.googlecode.com/svn/data/benchmarks/v3/run.html ) - version  3 -
not sure it's a proper test set except last one RegExp related. Thank you.
>> 
>> -- Shamil
>> 
>> ???????,  1 ??????? 2013, 14:22 -08:00 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen <
hans.andersen at phulse.com >:
>>>> IE 10 outperforms Google Chrome?
>>> 
>>> On Microsofts own tests? Well tickle me pink :)
>>> 
>>> - Hans
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On 2013-02-01, at 11:00 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil <  mcp2004 at mail.ru >
wrote:
>>> 
>>>> That's a funny test (be careful it has rather loud music):
>>>> 
>>>>  http://ie.microsoft.com/testdrive/Performance/PenguinMark/
>>>> 
>>>> IE 10: => 207
>>>> Google Chrome - Version 24.0.1312.56: => 61
>>>> 
>>>> IE 10 outperforms Google Chrome? (Tested on Win8 Pro)
>>>> How it comes?
>>>> 
>>>> Here IE10 is also ahead:
>>>> 
>>>>  http://ie.microsoft.com/testdrive/Performance/RoboHornetPro/
>>>> 
>>>>  http://ie.microsoft.com/testdrive/Performance/Bubbles/
>>>> 
>>>> I do not care that much of IE10 is outperforms Chrome in some tests - I
just wanted to note the tests are funny :)
>>>> 
>>>> -- Shamil
>>>> 
>>>> P.S. BTW the tests do not run at all on WinPhone 7.5
>>>>?
_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From accessd at shaw.ca  Sat Feb  2 15:42:25 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2013 13:42:25 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] http://dromaeo.com/?jslib etc. - IE10
	andChrome	24	javascript testw results
In-Reply-To: <01f601ce017a$b83bfca0$28b3f5e0$@winhaven.net>
References: <s10d6a15.078@cactus.dk>
	<01f601ce017a$b83bfca0$28b3f5e0$@winhaven.net>
Message-ID: <03ADEB96480D46D9BD6B3213B2671345@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi John:

My one major complaint against chrome is that it is a real pig when it comes
to memory usage. FF is always excellent with memory. Most of my clients has
XP machines so IE10 is not in the mix.

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow
Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 11:23 AM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] http://dromaeo.com/?jslib etc. - IE10 andChrome 24
javascript testw results

I have had far more problems with Chrome than with any other browser. I have
no idea why. 

The only web public app where Chrome seems to noticeably outperform IE and
FF is Facebook(?). And, well, that's just not enough for me. I have an
office with 12 virtual terminal devices on one speedy workstation. We try to
get everyone to use Chrome (because its supposedly lighter on resources). As
I Walk through the office most people use IE, even after I've taken all the
shortcuts icons off except the menu structure. Apparently only computer
geeks like Chrome on a PC.

I personally don't like Chrome's sparse and restrictive UI. I don't like
that IE10 is following in its footsteps when loaded in Windows 8 tile mode.
I prefer to have a UI with parts that I can turn on/off to suit my personal
tastes. For instance, I prefer my RoboForm toolbar at the top. Call it years
of IE indoctrination but that's just my preference. I cannot do this with
Chrome. With Chrome it has to be an obstructing overlay on the bottom of the
window. I can have the way I want it with IE and FF. So for me Chrome is the
one which forces their way on me.

I'm liking Google less and less since Eric Schmidt took over as CEO. I
didn't care for him at Sun or Novell either. IMO he is to blame for making
Google just another "evil" technology company.

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 12:34 PM
To: dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] http://dromaeo.com/?jslib etc. - IE10 and Chrome 24
javascript testw results

Hi Shamil

Oh yes, you are missing that IE-version-whatever per definition is and for
ever will be bad cruelware. Microsoft just can't write decent software. It's
that simple. To some.

/gustav


>>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 02-02-13 18:55 >>>

- am I missing something?

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Sat Feb  2 15:55:36 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2013 01:55:36 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech] =?utf-8?q?web_developers_struggling_with_IE?=
In-Reply-To: <7D3856D4-8383-4983-B291-24AEAD751A68@phulse.com>
References: <00d401ce00a4$c89be6e0$59d3b4a0$@winhaven.net>
	<1359827008.970250729@f42.mail.ru>
	<7D3856D4-8383-4983-B291-24AEAD751A68@phulse.com>
Message-ID: <1359842136.926780042@f201.mail.ru>

 Hi Hans --

That sounds as a "conspiracy theory" Russian politics and clerics like and used to use so much here that it makes me laughing as soon as I hear that nonsense from them next time...
Wouldn't you suppose that reputation would cost a lot more for MS than such a "cheap & dirty tricks"? (Let's leave "walled garden" aside from this context as the testing was done for browsers running in classic Win8 mode.)

Anyway I will try to run tests on a VM - this time separately - Chrome first, then IE or vice versa. 

Wouldn't you expect that even in such a context IE will have any advantages?
What "hidden" API and hardware resources they could use to interpret and run JavaScript?
I can only imagine they (MS) somehow use OS "kernel" mode, which is unavailable for other browsers, or "talk directly to" HAL (Hardware Abstraction Layer) but how that "tricks" could help with JavaScript interpretation? (If they (MS) would use that tricks then Chrome, and FireFox and Mozilla engineers would have had already hacked them and used in their own browsers or you'd expect MS Windows has special API available for IE only even for IE running in classic Win7/Win8 mode?)

I doubt anything more than C/C++ "assembly code blocks" and GDI+ and standard multi-threading capabilities are used to accelerate JavaScript processing - and all that "tricks" are available for both IE and Chrome developers...

Thank you.

-- Shamil

???????,  2 ??????? 2013, 10:13 -08:00 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen <hans.andersen at phulse.com>:
>
>I would just like to suggest that this may not be an accurate way of testing things, since I wouldn't be all that surprised if Internet Explorer has a higher priority for APIs and hardware resources than other applications do. I would be curious to see if the numbers are any significantly different if the two browsers run the tests individually.
>
>- Hans
>
>
>On 2013-02-02, at 9:43 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil < mcp2004 at mail.ru > wrote:
>
>> Hi Hans --
>> 
>> Same machine, IE and Chrome running as separate browser instances each one on its own display, Win 8 Prof.
>> 
>> Thank you.
>> 
>> -- Shamil
>> 
>> 
>> ???????,  2 ??????? 2013, 0:15 -08:00 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen < hans.andersen at phulse.com >:
>>> When you say you ran them simultaneously, did you mean simultaneously on the same machine or on two identical machines?
>>> 
>>> Best regards,
>>> Hans-Christian Andersen
>>> 
<<< skipped >>>>
>


From john at winhaven.net  Sat Feb  2 16:29:15 2013
From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow)
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2013 16:29:15 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] http://dromaeo.com/?jslib etc. -
	IE10	andChrome	24	javascript testw results
In-Reply-To: <03ADEB96480D46D9BD6B3213B2671345@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <s10d6a15.078@cactus.dk>	<01f601ce017a$b83bfca0$28b3f5e0$@winhaven.net>
	<03ADEB96480D46D9BD6B3213B2671345@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <021c01ce0194$bbdeee20$339cca60$@winhaven.net>

It appears to me to be that way too. However I have never investigated how
much memory different browsers use. I was advised to use Chrome with the
Virtual desktop clients by the company support. It never solved the issues
we were having so it may have been a "crutch" solution with no real
technical backing. 

Having 12 people using one i7 8GB Win7-64 workstation is going to put a
strain on resources. Having them all use a memory hog or one that leaks
certainly doesn't help. I'll have to see how Firefox does on that system. It
works pretty good however, it could work better :-)

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence
Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 3:42 PM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] http://dromaeo.com/?jslib etc. - IE10 andChrome 24
javascript testw results

Hi John:

My one major complaint against chrome is that it is a real pig when it comes
to memory usage. FF is always excellent with memory. Most of my clients has
XP machines so IE10 is not in the mix.

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow
Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 11:23 AM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] http://dromaeo.com/?jslib etc. - IE10 andChrome 24
javascript testw results

I have had far more problems with Chrome than with any other browser. I have
no idea why. 

The only web public app where Chrome seems to noticeably outperform IE and
FF is Facebook(?). And, well, that's just not enough for me. I have an
office with 12 virtual terminal devices on one speedy workstation. We try to
get everyone to use Chrome (because its supposedly lighter on resources). As
I Walk through the office most people use IE, even after I've taken all the
shortcuts icons off except the menu structure. Apparently only computer
geeks like Chrome on a PC.

I personally don't like Chrome's sparse and restrictive UI. I don't like
that IE10 is following in its footsteps when loaded in Windows 8 tile mode.
I prefer to have a UI with parts that I can turn on/off to suit my personal
tastes. For instance, I prefer my RoboForm toolbar at the top. Call it years
of IE indoctrination but that's just my preference. I cannot do this with
Chrome. With Chrome it has to be an obstructing overlay on the bottom of the
window. I can have the way I want it with IE and FF. So for me Chrome is the
one which forces their way on me.

I'm liking Google less and less since Eric Schmidt took over as CEO. I
didn't care for him at Sun or Novell either. IMO he is to blame for making
Google just another "evil" technology company.

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 12:34 PM
To: dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] http://dromaeo.com/?jslib etc. - IE10 and Chrome 24
javascript testw results

Hi Shamil

Oh yes, you are missing that IE-version-whatever per definition is and for
ever will be bad cruelware. Microsoft just can't write decent software. It's
that simple. To some.

/gustav


>>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 02-02-13 18:55 >>>

- am I missing something?

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Sat Feb  2 16:36:20 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2013 02:36:20 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech]
 =?utf-8?q?http=3A//dromaeo=2Ecom/=3Fjslib_etc=2E_-_IE1?=
 =?utf-8?q?0_and_Chrome_24_javascript_testw_results?=
In-Reply-To: <0657E67F-1E9E-4309-9F2E-DA91014781AE@phulse.com>
References: <1359764464.223237868@f238.mail.ru>
	<1359827715.142377674@f42.mail.ru>
	<0657E67F-1E9E-4309-9F2E-DA91014781AE@phulse.com>
Message-ID: <1359844580.64499493@f344.mail.ru>

 Hi Hans --

I have just run? http://peacekeeper.futuremark.com/ .
Here are the results:

Chrome 24, VM Win7 Ultimate 32bit: ? ? ? ? ?=> 2739 - HTML5 Capabilities 6/7
Chrome 24, VM Win7 64bit Prof: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? => 2858 - HTML5 Capabilities 5/7
Chrome 24, "bare metal" Win8 Prof 64bit: ?=> 3152 - HTML5 Capabilities 6/7
http://peacekeeper.futuremark.com/results?key=6ctT
IE9, VM Win7 Ultimate 32bit: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?=> 1139 - HTML5 Capabilities 3/7
IE9, VM Win7 64bit Prof: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? => 1220 - HTML5 Capabilities 3/7
IE10, "bare metal" Win8 Prof 64bit: ? ? ? ? ? ?=> 1798 - HTML5 Capabilities 3/7
http://peacekeeper.futuremark.com/results?key=6ctc&resultId=2963468 I haven't had IE10 for Win7 tests.

As it happens Chrome outperforms IE10 and has almost complete HTML5 capabilities.

Thank you.

-- Shamil


???????,  2 ??????? 2013, 11:01 -08:00 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen <hans.andersen at phulse.com>:
>
>> I don't care that much how impartial the tests are - after all they made for Mozilla and I've tested IE and Chrome - may I assume the tests are impartial? I suppose I may....
>> 
>> And it doesn't matter for me that IE 10 runs better than Chrome 24 (or Safari)  or not - AFAIS IE 10 is not bad at all for everyday tasks - am I missing something?
>
>It matters because many browsers are implemented differently, but they are all trying to work well enough with the same standard. If a test is designed to work best with your browser (and another one happens to work ok with, but not all of them), then you are testing a non-standard feature. The only thing that has been proven is that Internet Explorer 10 is more compatible with Mozilla Firefox, if you catch my drift. :)
>
>> Out of just sport interests I'd be curious to run really impartial Javascript tests on IE10 and compare them with Chrome and Safari - what such tests could be IYO?
>
>These days, performance is pretty decent across all browsers, so it really doesn't matter at all. The only ones who care are the companies/teams behind the browsers, so when searching for any decent javascript benchmarking sites, you will come across one from microsoft, one from mozilla, one from google, etc.
>
>If you want an impartial test, I might suggest this one:
>http://peacekeeper.futuremark.com/
>
>Futuremark is a company which builds benchmarking software (originally for 3D graphics cards). I would trust them a lot more than I would trust a benchmark from any of the above companies.
>
>Another one is:  http://www.speed-battle.com/
>
>SunSpider is another, although it is a little questionable about how impartial it is, at least it's not as biased as the others you pointed out and can be included in the data.
>
>
>- Hans
>
>

From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Sat Feb  2 16:57:47 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2013 02:57:47 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech]
 =?utf-8?q?http=3A//dromaeo=2Ecom/=3Fjslib_etc=2E_-_IE1?=
 =?utf-8?q?0_and_Chrome_24_javascript_testw_results?=
In-Reply-To: <1359844580.64499493@f344.mail.ru>
References: <1359764464.223237868@f238.mail.ru>
	<0657E67F-1E9E-4309-9F2E-DA91014781AE@phulse.com>
	<1359844580.64499493@f344.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <1359845867.141564719@f368.mail.ru>

 + testings => http://www.speed-battle.com/

IE10, Win8 Prof 64bit
Calculate: 27.68
Store: 461.52
Render: 8.26
Overall Score: 497.46

Chrome 24, Win8 Prof 64bit
Calculate: 75.85
Store: 268.59
Render: 5.6
Overall Score: 350.04 -- Shamil


???????????,  3 ??????? 2013, 2:36 +04:00 ?? Salakhetdinov Shamil <mcp2004 at mail.ru>:
>Hi Hans --
>
>I have just run?  http://peacekeeper.futuremark.com/ .
>Here are the results:
>
>Chrome 24, VM Win7 Ultimate 32bit: ? ? ? ? ?=> 2739 - HTML5 Capabilities 6/7
>Chrome 24, VM Win7 64bit Prof: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? => 2858 - HTML5 Capabilities 5/7
>Chrome 24, "bare metal" Win8 Prof 64bit: ?=> 3152 - HTML5 Capabilities 6/7
>http://peacekeeper.futuremark.com/results?key=6ctT
>
>IE9, VM Win7 Ultimate 32bit: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?=> 1139 - HTML5 Capabilities 3/7
>IE9, VM Win7 64bit Prof: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? => 1220 - HTML5 Capabilities 3/7
>IE10, "bare metal" Win8 Prof 64bit: ? ? ? ? ? ?=> 1798 - HTML5 Capabilities 3/7
>http://peacekeeper.futuremark.com/results?key=6ctc&resultId=2963468 I haven't had IE10 for Win7 tests.
>
>As it happens Chrome outperforms IE10 and has almost complete HTML5 capabilities.
>
>Thank you.
>
>-- Shamil
>
>
>???????,  2 ??????? 2013, 11:01 -08:00 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen < hans.andersen at phulse.com >:
>>
>>> I don't care that much how impartial the tests are - after all they made for Mozilla and I've tested IE and Chrome - may I assume the tests are impartial? I suppose I may....
>>> 
>>> And it doesn't matter for me that IE 10 runs better than Chrome 24 (or Safari)  or not - AFAIS IE 10 is not bad at all for everyday tasks - am I missing something?
>>
>>It matters because many browsers are implemented differently, but they are all trying to work well enough with the same standard. If a test is designed to work best with your browser (and another one happens to work ok with, but not all of them), then you are testing a non-standard feature. The only thing that has been proven is that Internet Explorer 10 is more compatible with Mozilla Firefox, if you catch my drift. :)
>>
>>> Out of just sport interests I'd be curious to run really impartial Javascript tests on IE10 and compare them with Chrome and Safari - what such tests could be IYO?
>>
>>These days, performance is pretty decent across all browsers, so it really doesn't matter at all. The only ones who care are the companies/teams behind the browsers, so when searching for any decent javascript benchmarking sites, you will come across one from microsoft, one from mozilla, one from google, etc.
>>
>>If you want an impartial test, I might suggest this one:
>> http://peacekeeper.futuremark.com/
>>
>>Futuremark is a company which builds benchmarking software (originally for 3D graphics cards). I would trust them a lot more than I would trust a benchmark from any of the above companies.
>>
>>Another one is:  http://www.speed-battle.com/
>>
>>SunSpider is another, although it is a little questionable about how impartial it is, at least it's not as biased as the others you pointed out and can be included in the data.
>>
>>
>>- Hans
>>
>>
>_______________________________________________
>dba-Tech mailing list
>dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>Website:  http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From hans.andersen at phulse.com  Sat Feb  2 19:00:42 2013
From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen)
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2013 17:00:42 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] web developers struggling with IE
In-Reply-To: <1359842136.926780042@f201.mail.ru>
References: <00d401ce00a4$c89be6e0$59d3b4a0$@winhaven.net>
	<1359827008.970250729@f42.mail.ru>
	<7D3856D4-8383-4983-B291-24AEAD751A68@phulse.com>
	<1359842136.926780042@f201.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <0C7B62E4-A08D-4D42-979E-6FE35EB1A57C@phulse.com>

Just as with science, it is important to be as objective as possible and not make any assumptions about what is happening inside the black box. It's not conspiracy theories, its a part of the scientific method.

- Hans


On 2013- 02-02, at 1:55 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil <mcp2004 at mail.ru> wrote:

> Hi Hans --
> 
> That sounds as a "conspiracy theory" Russian politics and clerics like and used to use so much here that it makes me laughing as soon as I hear that nonsense from them next time...
> Wouldn't you suppose that reputation would cost a lot more for MS than such a "cheap & dirty tricks"? (Let's leave "walled garden" aside from this context as the testing was done for browsers running in classic Win8 mode.)
> 
> Anyway I will try to run tests on a VM - this time separately - Chrome first, then IE or vice versa. 
> 
> Wouldn't you expect that even in such a context IE will have any advantages?
> What "hidden" API and hardware resources they could use to interpret and run JavaScript?
> I can only imagine they (MS) somehow use OS "kernel" mode, which is unavailable for other browsers, or "talk directly to" HAL (Hardware Abstraction Layer) but how that "tricks" could help with JavaScript interpretation? (If they (MS) would use that tricks then Chrome, and FireFox and Mozilla engineers would have had already hacked them and used in their own browsers or you'd expect MS Windows has special API available for IE only even for IE running in classic Win7/Win8 mode?)
> 
> I doubt anything more than C/C++ "assembly code blocks" and GDI+ and standard multi-threading capabilities are used to accelerate JavaScript processing - and all that "tricks" are available for both IE and Chrome developers...
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> -- Shamil
> 
> ???????,  2 ??????? 2013, 10:13 -08:00 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen <hans.andersen at phulse.com>:
>> 
>> I would just like to suggest that this may not be an accurate way of testing things, since I wouldn't be all that surprised if Internet Explorer has a higher priority for APIs and hardware resources than other applications do. I would be curious to see if the numbers are any significantly different if the two browsers run the tests individually.
>> 
>> - Hans
>> 
>> 
>> On 2013-02-02, at 9:43 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil < mcp2004 at mail.ru > wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Hans --
>>> 
>>> Same machine, IE and Chrome running as separate browser instances each one on its own display, Win 8 Prof.
>>> 
>>> Thank you.
>>> 
>>> -- Shamil
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ???????,  2 ??????? 2013, 0:15 -08:00 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen < hans.andersen at phulse.com >:
>>>> When you say you ran them simultaneously, did you mean simultaneously on the same machine or on two identical machines?
>>>> 
>>>> Best regards,
>>>> Hans-Christian Andersen
> <<< skipped >>>>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From hans.andersen at phulse.com  Sat Feb  2 19:02:02 2013
From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen)
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2013 17:02:02 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] http://dromaeo.com/?jslib etc. - IE10 and Chrome 24
	javascript testw results
In-Reply-To: <1359844580.64499493@f344.mail.ru>
References: <1359764464.223237868@f238.mail.ru>
	<1359827715.142377674@f42.mail.ru>
	<0657E67F-1E9E-4309-9F2E-DA91014781AE@phulse.com>
	<1359844580.64499493@f344.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <EA8D4ACF-D006-4E8F-8D52-526DD2F42AD9@phulse.com>

How about the other benchmark?

- Hans


On 2013-02-02, at 2:36 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil <mcp2004 at mail.ru> wrote:

> Hi Hans --
> 
> I have just run  http://peacekeeper.futuremark.com/ .
> Here are the results:
> 
> Chrome 24, VM Win7 Ultimate 32bit:          => 2739 - HTML5 Capabilities 6/7
> Chrome 24, VM Win7 64bit Prof:                 => 2858 - HTML5 Capabilities 5/7
> Chrome 24, "bare metal" Win8 Prof 64bit:  => 3152 - HTML5 Capabilities 6/7
> http://peacekeeper.futuremark.com/results?key=6ctT
> IE9, VM Win7 Ultimate 32bit:                      => 1139 - HTML5 Capabilities 3/7
> IE9, VM Win7 64bit Prof:                             => 1220 - HTML5 Capabilities 3/7
> IE10, "bare metal" Win8 Prof 64bit:            => 1798 - HTML5 Capabilities 3/7
> http://peacekeeper.futuremark.com/results?key=6ctc&resultId=2963468 I haven't had IE10 for Win7 tests.
> 
> As it happens Chrome outperforms IE10 and has almost complete HTML5 capabilities.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> -- Shamil
> 
> 
> ???????,  2 ??????? 2013, 11:01 -08:00 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen <hans.andersen at phulse.com>:
>> 
>>> I don't care that much how impartial the tests are - after all they made for Mozilla and I've tested IE and Chrome - may I assume the tests are impartial? I suppose I may....
>>> 
>>> And it doesn't matter for me that IE 10 runs better than Chrome 24 (or Safari)  or not - AFAIS IE 10 is not bad at all for everyday tasks - am I missing something?
>> 
>> It matters because many browsers are implemented differently, but they are all trying to work well enough with the same standard. If a test is designed to work best with your browser (and another one happens to work ok with, but not all of them), then you are testing a non-standard feature. The only thing that has been proven is that Internet Explorer 10 is more compatible with Mozilla Firefox, if you catch my drift. :)
>> 
>>> Out of just sport interests I'd be curious to run really impartial Javascript tests on IE10 and compare them with Chrome and Safari - what such tests could be IYO?
>> 
>> These days, performance is pretty decent across all browsers, so it really doesn't matter at all. The only ones who care are the companies/teams behind the browsers, so when searching for any decent javascript benchmarking sites, you will come across one from microsoft, one from mozilla, one from google, etc.
>> 
>> If you want an impartial test, I might suggest this one:
>> http://peacekeeper.futuremark.com/
>> 
>> Futuremark is a company which builds benchmarking software (originally for 3D graphics cards). I would trust them a lot more than I would trust a benchmark from any of the above companies.
>> 
>> Another one is:  http://www.speed-battle.com/
>> 
>> SunSpider is another, although it is a little questionable about how impartial it is, at least it's not as biased as the others you pointed out and can be included in the data.
>> 
>> 
>> - Hans
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From hans.andersen at phulse.com  Sat Feb  2 19:03:31 2013
From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen)
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2013 17:03:31 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] http://dromaeo.com/?jslib etc. - IE10 and Chrome 24
	javascript testw results
In-Reply-To: <1359845867.141564719@f368.mail.ru>
References: <1359764464.223237868@f238.mail.ru>
	<0657E67F-1E9E-4309-9F2E-DA91014781AE@phulse.com>
	<1359844580.64499493@f344.mail.ru>
	<1359845867.141564719@f368.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <D3033367-980E-4BB0-A1CB-67A175FEFC33@phulse.com>

Ah, got it. Thanks. Looks like the numbers are bit less conclusive. One thing for certain is that IE 10 is a vast improvement over IE 9.

- Hans


On 2013-02-02, at 2:57 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil <mcp2004 at mail.ru> wrote:

> + testings => http://www.speed-battle.com/
> 
> IE10, Win8 Prof 64bit
> Calculate: 27.68
> Store: 461.52
> Render: 8.26
> Overall Score: 497.46
> 
> Chrome 24, Win8 Prof 64bit
> Calculate: 75.85
> Store: 268.59
> Render: 5.6
> Overall Score: 350.04 -- Shamil
> 
> 
> ???????????,  3 ??????? 2013, 2:36 +04:00 ?? Salakhetdinov Shamil <mcp2004 at mail.ru>:
>> Hi Hans --
>> 
>> I have just run   http://peacekeeper.futuremark.com/ .
>> Here are the results:
>> 
>> Chrome 24, VM Win7 Ultimate 32bit:          => 2739 - HTML5 Capabilities 6/7
>> Chrome 24, VM Win7 64bit Prof:                 => 2858 - HTML5 Capabilities 5/7
>> Chrome 24, "bare metal" Win8 Prof 64bit:  => 3152 - HTML5 Capabilities 6/7
>> http://peacekeeper.futuremark.com/results?key=6ctT
>> 
>> IE9, VM Win7 Ultimate 32bit:                      => 1139 - HTML5 Capabilities 3/7
>> IE9, VM Win7 64bit Prof:                             => 1220 - HTML5 Capabilities 3/7
>> IE10, "bare metal" Win8 Prof 64bit:            => 1798 - HTML5 Capabilities 3/7
>> http://peacekeeper.futuremark.com/results?key=6ctc&resultId=2963468 I haven't had IE10 for Win7 tests.
>> 
>> As it happens Chrome outperforms IE10 and has almost complete HTML5 capabilities.
>> 
>> Thank you.
>> 
>> -- Shamil
>> 
>> 
>> ???????,  2 ??????? 2013, 11:01 -08:00 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen < hans.andersen at phulse.com >:
>>> 
>>>> I don't care that much how impartial the tests are - after all they made for Mozilla and I've tested IE and Chrome - may I assume the tests are impartial? I suppose I may....
>>>> 
>>>> And it doesn't matter for me that IE 10 runs better than Chrome 24 (or Safari)  or not - AFAIS IE 10 is not bad at all for everyday tasks - am I missing something?
>>> 
>>> It matters because many browsers are implemented differently, but they are all trying to work well enough with the same standard. If a test is designed to work best with your browser (and another one happens to work ok with, but not all of them), then you are testing a non-standard feature. The only thing that has been proven is that Internet Explorer 10 is more compatible with Mozilla Firefox, if you catch my drift. :)
>>> 
>>>> Out of just sport interests I'd be curious to run really impartial Javascript tests on IE10 and compare them with Chrome and Safari - what such tests could be IYO?
>>> 
>>> These days, performance is pretty decent across all browsers, so it really doesn't matter at all. The only ones who care are the companies/teams behind the browsers, so when searching for any decent javascript benchmarking sites, you will come across one from microsoft, one from mozilla, one from google, etc.
>>> 
>>> If you want an impartial test, I might suggest this one:
>>> http://peacekeeper.futuremark.com/
>>> 
>>> Futuremark is a company which builds benchmarking software (originally for 3D graphics cards). I would trust them a lot more than I would trust a benchmark from any of the above companies.
>>> 
>>> Another one is:  http://www.speed-battle.com/
>>> 
>>> SunSpider is another, although it is a little questionable about how impartial it is, at least it's not as biased as the others you pointed out and can be included in the data.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> - Hans
>> _______________________________________________
>> dba-Tech mailing list
>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>> Website:  http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Sun Feb  3 05:18:37 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2013 15:18:37 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech] =?utf-8?q?web_developers_struggling_with_IE?=
In-Reply-To: <0C7B62E4-A08D-4D42-979E-6FE35EB1A57C@phulse.com>
References: <00d401ce00a4$c89be6e0$59d3b4a0$@winhaven.net>
	<1359842136.926780042@f201.mail.ru>
	<0C7B62E4-A08D-4D42-979E-6FE35EB1A57C@phulse.com>
Message-ID: <1359890317.258436985@f302.mail.ru>

 OK.


???????,  2 ??????? 2013, 17:00 -08:00 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen <hans.andersen at phulse.com>:
>Just as with science, it is important to be as objective as possible and not make any assumptions about what is happening inside the black box. It's not conspiracy theories, its a part of the scientific method.
>
>- Hans
>
>
>On 2013- 02-02, at 1:55 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil < mcp2004 at mail.ru > wrote:
>
>> Hi Hans --
>> 
>> That sounds as a "conspiracy theory" Russian politics and clerics like and used to use so much here that it makes me laughing as soon as I hear that nonsense from them next time...
>> Wouldn't you suppose that reputation would cost a lot more for MS than such a "cheap & dirty tricks"? (Let's leave "walled garden" aside from this context as the testing was done for browsers running in classic Win8 mode.)
>> 
>> Anyway I will try to run tests on a VM - this time separately - Chrome first, then IE or vice versa. 
>> 
>> Wouldn't you expect that even in such a context IE will have any advantages?
>> What "hidden" API and hardware resources they could use to interpret and run JavaScript?
>> I can only imagine they (MS) somehow use OS "kernel" mode, which is unavailable for other browsers, or "talk directly to" HAL (Hardware Abstraction Layer) but how that "tricks" could help with JavaScript interpretation? (If they (MS) would use that tricks then Chrome, and FireFox and Mozilla engineers would have had already hacked them and used in their own browsers or you'd expect MS Windows has special API available for IE only even for IE running in classic Win7/Win8 mode?)
>> 
>> I doubt anything more than C/C++ "assembly code blocks" and GDI+ and standard multi-threading capabilities are used to accelerate JavaScript processing - and all that "tricks" are available for both IE and Chrome developers...
>> 
>> Thank you.
>> 
>> -- Shamil
>
>> <<< skipped>>>

From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Sun Feb  3 05:20:48 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2013 15:20:48 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech]
 =?utf-8?q?http=3A//dromaeo=2Ecom/=3Fjslib_etc=2E_-_IE1?=
 =?utf-8?q?0_and_Chrome_24_javascript_testw_results?=
In-Reply-To: <D3033367-980E-4BB0-A1CB-67A175FEFC33@phulse.com>
References: <1359764464.223237868@f238.mail.ru>
	<1359845867.141564719@f368.mail.ru>
	<D3033367-980E-4BB0-A1CB-67A175FEFC33@phulse.com>
Message-ID: <1359890448.296568282@f302.mail.ru>


Yes, IE10 looks not bad.
Still "HTML5 Capabilities 3/7" seems to be an issue?

-- Shamil

???????,  2 ??????? 2013, 17:03 -08:00 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen <hans.andersen at phulse.com>:
>Ah, got it. Thanks. Looks like the numbers are bit less conclusive. One thing for certain is that IE 10 is a vast improvement over IE 9.
>
>- Hans
>
>
>On 2013-02-02, at 2:57 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil < mcp2004 at mail.ru > wrote:
>
>> + testings =>  http://www.speed-battle.com/
>> 
>> IE10, Win8 Prof 64bit
>> Calculate: 27.68
>> Store: 461.52
>> Render: 8.26
>> Overall Score: 497.46
>> 
>> Chrome 24, Win8 Prof 64bit
>> Calculate: 75.85
>> Store: 268.59
>> Render: 5.6
>> Overall Score: 350.04 -- Shamil
>> 
>> 
>> ???????????,  3 ??????? 2013, 2:36 +04:00 ?? Salakhetdinov Shamil < mcp2004 at mail.ru >:
>>> Hi Hans --
>>> 
>>> I have just run  http://peacekeeper.futuremark.com/ .
>>> Here are the results:
>>> 
>>> Chrome 24, VM Win7 Ultimate 32bit:          => 2739 - HTML5 Capabilities 6/7
>>> Chrome 24, VM Win7 64bit Prof:                 => 2858 - HTML5 Capabilities 5/7
>>> Chrome 24, "bare metal" Win8 Prof 64bit:  => 3152 - HTML5 Capabilities 6/7
>>>  http://peacekeeper.futuremark.com/results?key=6ctT
>>> 
>>> IE9, VM Win7 Ultimate 32bit:                      => 1139 - HTML5 Capabilities 3/7
>>> IE9, VM Win7 64bit Prof:                             => 1220 - HTML5 Capabilities 3/7
>>> IE10, "bare metal" Win8 Prof 64bit:            => 1798 - HTML5 Capabilities 3/7
>>>  http://peacekeeper.futuremark.com/results?key=6ctc&resultId=2963468 I haven't had IE10 for Win7 tests.
>>> 
>>> As it happens Chrome outperforms IE10 and has almost complete HTML5 capabilities.
>>> 
>>> Thank you.
>>> 
>>> -- Shamil
>>>? <<< skipped >>>
>

From fuller.artful at gmail.com  Sun Feb  3 13:04:02 2013
From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller)
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2013 14:04:02 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] Another OS operating system
In-Reply-To: <6DCA07CA-9BA7-4288-8D7C-0DA297F37F9F@phulse.com>
References: <s1043365.093@cactus.dk>
	<5104EC4A.32251.43DDAC3A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
	<D01BF04F3EAE4F29B4A0C359A53E9426@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<1359324483.96889929@f59.mail.ru>
	<8913B9FCE3044FA9A481C830B907B2EB@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<CAGXtTCgBqFtiOrpCXS1YrB83d2+WX3weqjoJs3pXYS+XXTGBTA@mail.gmail.com>
	<5F266C55-F88A-4193-8CCA-EC767925258D@phulse.com>
	<CAGXtTChyk+ZijwOVCqAfkQiawfJBAmVNA-HhyHgxMoqHfh7iEg@mail.gmail.com>
	<6DCA07CA-9BA7-4288-8D7C-0DA297F37F9F@phulse.com>
Message-ID: <CAEPJO1jLH6BkNYuOnLerABoHwfh4TK451oKadq4G5_SSSgJ_mg@mail.gmail.com>

Is there a VM that runs BeOS? I tried it way back when and would like to
try it again.

A.


On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 12:37 PM, Hans-Christian Andersen <
hans.andersen at phulse.com> wrote:

> Hi Mark,
>
> You are correct. I do have some affection for it, in the sense that it
> saddens me when technology with great potential that is technically better
> than the competition dies prematurely because of market realities. BeOS was
> fast and a really well designed OS. It didn't have tons of legacy junk to
> complicate things and it was capable of proper multitasking. There are
> YouTube videos out there that demonstrate just how many system intensive
> things they were able to run concurrently without the OS breaking a sweat
> or slowing/stuttering and all on the modest technology we had back then
> (early pentiums etc).
>
> BeOS was a chance for us to have a clean break - a well thought out OS
> that was designed to take proper advantage of the more modern hardware and
> CPU architecture of the time. Instead, what we got were legacy systems that
> were slowly brought up to modern standard (and, even then, not completely)
> by means of plugging and patching. And, as a software developer, that makes
> me sad.
>
> - Hans
>
>
> On 2013-01-31, at 1:03 AM, Mark Breen <marklbreen at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hello Hans-Christian,
> >
> > I can see that you had some affection for BeOS,
> >
> > thanks for a nice email,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 28 January 2013 09:50, Hans-Christian Andersen
> > <hans.andersen at phulse.com>wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Mark,
> >>
> >> No, Haiku is meant to be binary compatible with BeOS, so it does not run
> >> Linux binaries from the outset (but it is entirely possible, of course).
> >>
> >> Haiku is not a new OS. It has been around for a while actually. It's
> been
> >> around since the early 2000's. The history behind BeOS was that it was a
> >> new operating system that was designed to be heavily multi-core and
> >> multi-tasking (remember back in those days when the Pentium Pro machines
> >> were actually capable of multiple processors?). The company, Be Inc.,
> was
> >> trying to compete in a heavily Windows dominated market and they were
> >> selling machines called BeBox's.
> >>
> >> Unfortunately, no one was interested in buying anything that wasn't
> >> Microsoft at the time, so BeOS never had any traction in the industry,
> >> despite being vastly superior (in every way conceivable) to Microsoft
> >> Windows.
> >>
> >> When Apple was failing to produce an update to their operating system,
> Mac
> >> OS 9, BeOS was one of the two options Apple was considering as being the
> >> next update to Apple OS. Unfortunately for Be Inc., Steve Jobs had
> returned
> >> to Apple and was pushing for NeXT, since this was his project prior to
> >> (re)joining Apple.
> >>
> >> Apple decided to go with NeXT. BeOS's last ditch effort to stay alive
> >> among the sharks (Microsoft) failed and the company folded in 2001.
> >>
> >> It's a shame. BeOS was an amazing operating system. It was far ahead of
> >> everything out there from a technology point of view and it ran circles
> >> around every other OS in terms of performance and stability at the time.
> >>
> >> Palm then acquired Be Inc and did bugger all with it (as usual), so the
> >> Haiku team took it upon themselves to rewrite BeOS and they called it
> >> Haiku. It's been in alpha forever because it is enough of a forgotten OS
> >> that few people care, but enough care to spend time working on it with a
> >> passion.
> >>
> >> Unfortunately, Haiku can only claim to be BeOS compatible. They had to
> >> rewrite everything, so it isn't really the same OS underneath, but
> they've
> >> done an excellent job considering!
> >>
> >> R.I.P. BeOS.
> >>
> >> - Hans
> >>
> >>
> >> On 2013-01-28, at 1:15 AM, Mark Breen <marklbreen at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hello Jim
> >>>
> >>> Do you think that Linux apps will install and run on Haiku?  If not,
> does
> >>> it have future at all?
> >>>
> >>> I do admire the vision of anyone that attempts to start a new OS.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 28 January 2013 07:10, Jim Lawrence <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> So here is something interesting...another OSS and it is not Linux
> >>>>
> >>>> It is called Haiku. Whether the OS, based on BeOS, will make it past
> the
> >>>> development stage is a question as they are still trying to put enough
> >>>> funds
> >>>> together to make the dream a reality.
> >>>>
> >>>> Below is their site:
> >>>> https://www.haiku-os.org/
> >>>>
> >>>> Here is a Wikipedia oversight:
> >>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haiku_(operating_system)
> >>>>
> >>>> And a link to many images of the various product screens:
> >>
> http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&sugexp=les%3B&gs_rn=1&gs_ri=hp&cp=8&gs_id=
> >>
> 4&xhr=t&q=Haiku+OS&biw=1174&bih=649&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&um=1&ie=UTF-
> >>>> 8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=bSIGUaPJNpCUigLw7oHoDg
> >>>>
> >>>> And finally a article from a recent product convert:
> >>>> http://blog.leahhanson.us/falling-for-haiku-os.html
> >>>>
> >>>> Jim
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> dba-Tech mailing list
> >>>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> dba-Tech mailing list
> >>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> dba-Tech mailing list
> >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > dba-Tech mailing list
> > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>



-- 
Arthur
Cell: 647.710.1314

Prediction is difficult, especially of the future.
  -- Niels Bohr

From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Sun Feb  3 15:02:43 2013
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2013 07:02:43 +1000
Subject: [dba-Tech] Another OS operating system
In-Reply-To: <CAEPJO1jLH6BkNYuOnLerABoHwfh4TK451oKadq4G5_SSSgJ_mg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <s1043365.093@cactus.dk>,
	<6DCA07CA-9BA7-4288-8D7C-0DA297F37F9F@phulse.com>,
	<CAEPJO1jLH6BkNYuOnLerABoHwfh4TK451oKadq4G5_SSSgJ_mg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <510ED073.28834.147F2C39@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

I'm not 100% certain,  but I have a strong recollection of trying BeOS a few years ago.   IIRC, 
I installed it from one of those DVDs that come with computer magazines.

If so, it would probably have been on VirtualBox since that's the only VM I've used seriously.
 (It was on a previous laptop and I don't have that VM any more.)

-- 
Stuart

On 3 Feb 2013 at 14:04, Arthur Fuller wrote:

> Is there a VM that runs BeOS? I tried it way back when and would like to
> try it again.
> 
> A.
> 
> 
> On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 12:37 PM, Hans-Christian Andersen <
> hans.andersen at phulse.com> wrote:
> 
> > Hi Mark,
> >
> > You are correct. I do have some affection for it, in the sense that it
> > saddens me when technology with great potential that is technically better
> > than the competition dies prematurely because of market realities. BeOS was
> > fast and a really well designed OS. It didn't have tons of legacy junk to
> > complicate things and it was capable of proper multitasking. There are
> > YouTube videos out there that demonstrate just how many system intensive
> > things they were able to run concurrently without the OS breaking a sweat
> > or slowing/stuttering and all on the modest technology we had back then
> > (early pentiums etc).
> >
> > BeOS was a chance for us to have a clean break - a well thought out OS
> > that was designed to take proper advantage of the more modern hardware and
> > CPU architecture of the time. Instead, what we got were legacy systems that
> > were slowly brought up to modern standard (and, even then, not completely)
> > by means of plugging and patching. And, as a software developer, that makes
> > me sad.
> >
> > - Hans
> >
> >
> > On 2013-01-31, at 1:03 AM, Mark Breen <marklbreen at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Hello Hans-Christian,
> > >
> > > I can see that you had some affection for BeOS,
> > >
> > > thanks for a nice email,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 28 January 2013 09:50, Hans-Christian Andersen
> > > <hans.andersen at phulse.com>wrote:
> > >
> > >> Hi Mark,
> > >>
> > >> No, Haiku is meant to be binary compatible with BeOS, so it does not run
> > >> Linux binaries from the outset (but it is entirely possible, of course).
> > >>
> > >> Haiku is not a new OS. It has been around for a while actually. It's
> > been
> > >> around since the early 2000's. The history behind BeOS was that it was a
> > >> new operating system that was designed to be heavily multi-core and
> > >> multi-tasking (remember back in those days when the Pentium Pro machines
> > >> were actually capable of multiple processors?). The company, Be Inc.,
> > was
> > >> trying to compete in a heavily Windows dominated market and they were
> > >> selling machines called BeBox's.
> > >>
> > >> Unfortunately, no one was interested in buying anything that wasn't
> > >> Microsoft at the time, so BeOS never had any traction in the industry,
> > >> despite being vastly superior (in every way conceivable) to Microsoft
> > >> Windows.
> > >>
> > >> When Apple was failing to produce an update to their operating system,
> > Mac
> > >> OS 9, BeOS was one of the two options Apple was considering as being the
> > >> next update to Apple OS. Unfortunately for Be Inc., Steve Jobs had
> > returned
> > >> to Apple and was pushing for NeXT, since this was his project prior to
> > >> (re)joining Apple.
> > >>
> > >> Apple decided to go with NeXT. BeOS's last ditch effort to stay alive
> > >> among the sharks (Microsoft) failed and the company folded in 2001.
> > >>
> > >> It's a shame. BeOS was an amazing operating system. It was far ahead of
> > >> everything out there from a technology point of view and it ran circles
> > >> around every other OS in terms of performance and stability at the time.
> > >>
> > >> Palm then acquired Be Inc and did bugger all with it (as usual), so the
> > >> Haiku team took it upon themselves to rewrite BeOS and they called it
> > >> Haiku. It's been in alpha forever because it is enough of a forgotten OS
> > >> that few people care, but enough care to spend time working on it with a
> > >> passion.
> > >>
> > >> Unfortunately, Haiku can only claim to be BeOS compatible. They had to
> > >> rewrite everything, so it isn't really the same OS underneath, but
> > they've
> > >> done an excellent job considering!
> > >>
> > >> R.I.P. BeOS.
> > >>
> > >> - Hans
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On 2013-01-28, at 1:15 AM, Mark Breen <marklbreen at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Hello Jim
> > >>>
> > >>> Do you think that Linux apps will install and run on Haiku?  If not,
> > does
> > >>> it have future at all?
> > >>>
> > >>> I do admire the vision of anyone that attempts to start a new OS.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> On 28 January 2013 07:10, Jim Lawrence <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> So here is something interesting...another OSS and it is not Linux
> > >>>>
> > >>>> It is called Haiku. Whether the OS, based on BeOS, will make it past
> > the
> > >>>> development stage is a question as they are still trying to put enough
> > >>>> funds
> > >>>> together to make the dream a reality.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Below is their site:
> > >>>> https://www.haiku-os.org/
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Here is a Wikipedia oversight:
> > >>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haiku_(operating_system)
> > >>>>
> > >>>> And a link to many images of the various product screens:
> > >>
> > http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&sugexp=les%3B&gs_rn=1&gs_ri=hp&cp=8&gs_id=
> > >>
> > 4&xhr=t&q=Haiku+OS&biw=1174&bih=649&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&um=1&ie=UTF-
> > >>>> 8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=bSIGUaPJNpCUigLw7oHoDg
> > >>>>
> > >>>> And finally a article from a recent product convert:
> > >>>> http://blog.leahhanson.us/falling-for-haiku-os.html
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Jim
> > >>>>
> > >>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>> dba-Tech mailing list
> > >>>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> > >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> > >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> dba-Tech mailing list
> > >>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> > >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> > >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> dba-Tech mailing list
> > >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > dba-Tech mailing list
> > > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > dba-Tech mailing list
> > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Arthur
> Cell: 647.710.1314
> 
> Prediction is difficult, especially of the future.
>   -- Niels Bohr
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 



From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Sun Feb  3 15:12:30 2013
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2013 07:12:30 +1000
Subject: [dba-Tech] Another OS operating system
In-Reply-To: <510ED073.28834.147F2C39@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
References: <s1043365.093@cactus.dk>,
	<CAEPJO1jLH6BkNYuOnLerABoHwfh4TK451oKadq4G5_SSSgJ_mg@mail.gmail.com>,
	<510ED073.28834.147F2C39@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
Message-ID: <510ED2BE.14282.14882009@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

It must have been  BeOS r5 Personal Edition which runs on top of previous versions of  
Windows :-(

According to VirtualBox, BeOS "Doesn't work"
but Haiku does:
https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Guest_OSes



On 4 Feb 2013 at 7:02, Stuart McLachlan wrote:

> I'm not 100% certain,  but I have a strong recollection of trying BeOS a few years ago.   IIRC, 
> I installed it from one of those DVDs that come with computer magazines.
> 
> If so, it would probably have been on VirtualBox since that's the only VM I've used seriously.
>  (It was on a previous laptop and I don't have that VM any more.)
> 
> -- 
> Stuart
> 
> On 3 Feb 2013 at 14:04, Arthur Fuller wrote:
> 
> > Is there a VM that runs BeOS? I tried it way back when and would like to
> > try it again.
> > 
> > A.
> > 
> > 
> > On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 12:37 PM, Hans-Christian Andersen <
> > hans.andersen at phulse.com> wrote:
> > 
> > > Hi Mark,
> > >
> > > You are correct. I do have some affection for it, in the sense that it
> > > saddens me when technology with great potential that is technically better
> > > than the competition dies prematurely because of market realities. BeOS was
> > > fast and a really well designed OS. It didn't have tons of legacy junk to
> > > complicate things and it was capable of proper multitasking. There are
> > > YouTube videos out there that demonstrate just how many system intensive
> > > things they were able to run concurrently without the OS breaking a sweat
> > > or slowing/stuttering and all on the modest technology we had back then
> > > (early pentiums etc).
> > >
> > > BeOS was a chance for us to have a clean break - a well thought out OS
> > > that was designed to take proper advantage of the more modern hardware and
> > > CPU architecture of the time. Instead, what we got were legacy systems that
> > > were slowly brought up to modern standard (and, even then, not completely)
> > > by means of plugging and patching. And, as a software developer, that makes
> > > me sad.
> > >
> > > - Hans
> > >
> > >
> > > On 2013-01-31, at 1:03 AM, Mark Breen <marklbreen at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hello Hans-Christian,
> > > >
> > > > I can see that you had some affection for BeOS,
> > > >
> > > > thanks for a nice email,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 28 January 2013 09:50, Hans-Christian Andersen
> > > > <hans.andersen at phulse.com>wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Hi Mark,
> > > >>
> > > >> No, Haiku is meant to be binary compatible with BeOS, so it does not run
> > > >> Linux binaries from the outset (but it is entirely possible, of course).
> > > >>
> > > >> Haiku is not a new OS. It has been around for a while actually. It's
> > > been
> > > >> around since the early 2000's. The history behind BeOS was that it was a
> > > >> new operating system that was designed to be heavily multi-core and
> > > >> multi-tasking (remember back in those days when the Pentium Pro machines
> > > >> were actually capable of multiple processors?). The company, Be Inc.,
> > > was
> > > >> trying to compete in a heavily Windows dominated market and they were
> > > >> selling machines called BeBox's.
> > > >>
> > > >> Unfortunately, no one was interested in buying anything that wasn't
> > > >> Microsoft at the time, so BeOS never had any traction in the industry,
> > > >> despite being vastly superior (in every way conceivable) to Microsoft
> > > >> Windows.
> > > >>
> > > >> When Apple was failing to produce an update to their operating system,
> > > Mac
> > > >> OS 9, BeOS was one of the two options Apple was considering as being the
> > > >> next update to Apple OS. Unfortunately for Be Inc., Steve Jobs had
> > > returned
> > > >> to Apple and was pushing for NeXT, since this was his project prior to
> > > >> (re)joining Apple.
> > > >>
> > > >> Apple decided to go with NeXT. BeOS's last ditch effort to stay alive
> > > >> among the sharks (Microsoft) failed and the company folded in 2001.
> > > >>
> > > >> It's a shame. BeOS was an amazing operating system. It was far ahead of
> > > >> everything out there from a technology point of view and it ran circles
> > > >> around every other OS in terms of performance and stability at the time.
> > > >>
> > > >> Palm then acquired Be Inc and did bugger all with it (as usual), so the
> > > >> Haiku team took it upon themselves to rewrite BeOS and they called it
> > > >> Haiku. It's been in alpha forever because it is enough of a forgotten OS
> > > >> that few people care, but enough care to spend time working on it with a
> > > >> passion.
> > > >>
> > > >> Unfortunately, Haiku can only claim to be BeOS compatible. They had to
> > > >> rewrite everything, so it isn't really the same OS underneath, but
> > > they've
> > > >> done an excellent job considering!
> > > >>
> > > >> R.I.P. BeOS.
> > > >>
> > > >> - Hans
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> On 2013-01-28, at 1:15 AM, Mark Breen <marklbreen at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>> Hello Jim
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Do you think that Linux apps will install and run on Haiku?  If not,
> > > does
> > > >>> it have future at all?
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I do admire the vision of anyone that attempts to start a new OS.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> On 28 January 2013 07:10, Jim Lawrence <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> So here is something interesting...another OSS and it is not Linux
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> It is called Haiku. Whether the OS, based on BeOS, will make it past
> > > the
> > > >>>> development stage is a question as they are still trying to put enough
> > > >>>> funds
> > > >>>> together to make the dream a reality.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Below is their site:
> > > >>>> https://www.haiku-os.org/
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Here is a Wikipedia oversight:
> > > >>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haiku_(operating_system)
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> And a link to many images of the various product screens:
> > > >>
> > > http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&sugexp=les%3B&gs_rn=1&gs_ri=hp&cp=8&gs_id=
> > > >>
> > > 4&xhr=t&q=Haiku+OS&biw=1174&bih=649&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&um=1&ie=UTF-
> > > >>>> 8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=bSIGUaPJNpCUigLw7oHoDg
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> And finally a article from a recent product convert:
> > > >>>> http://blog.leahhanson.us/falling-for-haiku-os.html
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Jim
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> _______________________________________________
> > > >>>> dba-Tech mailing list
> > > >>>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> > > >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> > > >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > > >>> _______________________________________________
> > > >>> dba-Tech mailing list
> > > >>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> > > >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> > > >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > >> dba-Tech mailing list
> > > >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> > > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> > > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > dba-Tech mailing list
> > > > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > dba-Tech mailing list
> > > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > Arthur
> > Cell: 647.710.1314
> > 
> > Prediction is difficult, especially of the future.
> >   -- Niels Bohr
> > _______________________________________________
> > dba-Tech mailing list
> > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 



From john at winhaven.net  Sun Feb  3 15:13:04 2013
From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow)
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2013 15:13:04 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] Another OS operating system
In-Reply-To: <CAEPJO1jLH6BkNYuOnLerABoHwfh4TK451oKadq4G5_SSSgJ_mg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <s1043365.093@cactus.dk>	<5104EC4A.32251.43DDAC3A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>	<D01BF04F3EAE4F29B4A0C359A53E9426@creativesystemdesigns.com>	<1359324483.96889929@f59.mail.ru>	<8913B9FCE3044FA9A481C830B907B2EB@creativesystemdesigns.com>	<CAGXtTCgBqFtiOrpCXS1YrB83d2+WX3weqjoJs3pXYS+XXTGBTA@mail.gmail.com>	<5F266C55-F88A-4193-8CCA-EC767925258D@phulse.com>	<CAGXtTChyk+ZijwOVCqAfkQiawfJBAmVNA-HhyHgxMoqHfh7iEg@mail.gmail.com>	<6DCA07CA-9BA7-4288-8D7C-0DA297F37F9F@phulse.com>
	<CAEPJO1jLH6BkNYuOnLerABoHwfh4TK451oKadq4G5_SSSgJ_mg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00bd01ce0253$41c3b890$c54b29b0$@winhaven.net>

Not VirtualBox
https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Guest_OSes

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller
Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2013 1:04 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Another OS operating system

Is there a VM that runs BeOS? I tried it way back when and would like to try
it again.

A.


On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 12:37 PM, Hans-Christian Andersen <
hans.andersen at phulse.com> wrote:

> Hi Mark,
>
> You are correct. I do have some affection for it, in the sense that it 
> saddens me when technology with great potential that is technically 
> better than the competition dies prematurely because of market 
> realities. BeOS was fast and a really well designed OS. It didn't have 
> tons of legacy junk to complicate things and it was capable of proper 
> multitasking. There are YouTube videos out there that demonstrate just 
> how many system intensive things they were able to run concurrently 
> without the OS breaking a sweat or slowing/stuttering and all on the 
> modest technology we had back then (early pentiums etc).
>
> BeOS was a chance for us to have a clean break - a well thought out OS 
> that was designed to take proper advantage of the more modern hardware 
> and CPU architecture of the time. Instead, what we got were legacy 
> systems that were slowly brought up to modern standard (and, even 
> then, not completely) by means of plugging and patching. And, as a 
> software developer, that makes me sad.
>
> - Hans
>
>
> On 2013-01-31, at 1:03 AM, Mark Breen <marklbreen at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hello Hans-Christian,
> >
> > I can see that you had some affection for BeOS,
> >
> > thanks for a nice email,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 28 January 2013 09:50, Hans-Christian Andersen
> > <hans.andersen at phulse.com>wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Mark,
> >>
> >> No, Haiku is meant to be binary compatible with BeOS, so it does 
> >> not run Linux binaries from the outset (but it is entirely possible, of
course).
> >>
> >> Haiku is not a new OS. It has been around for a while actually. 
> >> It's
> been
> >> around since the early 2000's. The history behind BeOS was that it 
> >> was a new operating system that was designed to be heavily 
> >> multi-core and multi-tasking (remember back in those days when the 
> >> Pentium Pro machines were actually capable of multiple 
> >> processors?). The company, Be Inc.,
> was
> >> trying to compete in a heavily Windows dominated market and they 
> >> were selling machines called BeBox's.
> >>
> >> Unfortunately, no one was interested in buying anything that wasn't 
> >> Microsoft at the time, so BeOS never had any traction in the 
> >> industry, despite being vastly superior (in every way conceivable) 
> >> to Microsoft Windows.
> >>
> >> When Apple was failing to produce an update to their operating 
> >> system,
> Mac
> >> OS 9, BeOS was one of the two options Apple was considering as 
> >> being the next update to Apple OS. Unfortunately for Be Inc., Steve 
> >> Jobs had
> returned
> >> to Apple and was pushing for NeXT, since this was his project prior 
> >> to (re)joining Apple.
> >>
> >> Apple decided to go with NeXT. BeOS's last ditch effort to stay 
> >> alive among the sharks (Microsoft) failed and the company folded in
2001.
> >>
> >> It's a shame. BeOS was an amazing operating system. It was far 
> >> ahead of everything out there from a technology point of view and 
> >> it ran circles around every other OS in terms of performance and
stability at the time.
> >>
> >> Palm then acquired Be Inc and did bugger all with it (as usual), so 
> >> the Haiku team took it upon themselves to rewrite BeOS and they 
> >> called it Haiku. It's been in alpha forever because it is enough of 
> >> a forgotten OS that few people care, but enough care to spend time 
> >> working on it with a passion.
> >>
> >> Unfortunately, Haiku can only claim to be BeOS compatible. They had 
> >> to rewrite everything, so it isn't really the same OS underneath, 
> >> but
> they've
> >> done an excellent job considering!
> >>
> >> R.I.P. BeOS.
> >>
> >> - Hans
> >>
> >>
> >> On 2013-01-28, at 1:15 AM, Mark Breen <marklbreen at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hello Jim
> >>>
> >>> Do you think that Linux apps will install and run on Haiku?  If 
> >>> not,
> does
> >>> it have future at all?
> >>>
> >>> I do admire the vision of anyone that attempts to start a new OS.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 28 January 2013 07:10, Jim Lawrence <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> So here is something interesting...another OSS and it is not 
> >>>> Linux
> >>>>
> >>>> It is called Haiku. Whether the OS, based on BeOS, will make it 
> >>>> past
> the
> >>>> development stage is a question as they are still trying to put 
> >>>> enough funds together to make the dream a reality.
> >>>>
> >>>> Below is their site:
> >>>> https://www.haiku-os.org/
> >>>>
> >>>> Here is a Wikipedia oversight:
> >>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haiku_(operating_system)
> >>>>
> >>>> And a link to many images of the various product screens:
> >>
> http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&sugexp=les%3B&gs_rn=1&gs_ri=hp&cp=8&
> gs_id=
> >>
> 4&xhr=t&q=Haiku+OS&biw=1174&bih=649&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&um=1&i
> e=UTF-
> >>>> 8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=bSIGUaPJNpCUigLw7oHoDg
> >>>>
> >>>> And finally a article from a recent product convert:
> >>>> http://blog.leahhanson.us/falling-for-haiku-os.html
> >>>>
> >>>> Jim
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> dba-Tech mailing list
> >>>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> dba-Tech mailing list
> >>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> dba-Tech mailing list
> >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > dba-Tech mailing list
> > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>



--
Arthur
Cell: 647.710.1314

Prediction is difficult, especially of the future.
  -- Niels Bohr
_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From accessd at shaw.ca  Sun Feb  3 23:12:08 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2013 21:12:08 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] The low end hacker computer world
In-Reply-To: <00bd01ce0253$41c3b890$c54b29b0$@winhaven.net>
References: <s1043365.093@cactus.dk>	<5104EC4A.32251.43DDAC3A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>	<D01BF04F3EAE4F29B4A0C359A53E9426@creativesystemdesigns.com>	<1359324483.96889929@f59.mail.ru>	<8913B9FCE3044FA9A481C830B907B2EB@creativesystemdesigns.com>	<CAGXtTCgBqFtiOrpCXS1YrB83d2+WX3weqjoJs3pXYS+XXTGBTA@mail.gmail.com>	<5F266C55-F88A-4193-8CCA-EC767925258D@phulse.com>	<CAGXtTChyk+ZijwOVCqAfkQiawfJBAmVNA-HhyHgxMoqHfh7iEg@mail.gmail.com>	<6DCA07CA-9BA7-4288-8D7C-0DA297F37F9F@phulse.com><CAEPJO1jLH6BkNYuOnLerABoHwfh4TK451oKadq4G5_SSSgJ_mg@mail.gmail.com>
	<00bd01ce0253$41c3b890$c54b29b0$@winhaven.net>
Message-ID: <9765CA7CDB044469BA882047BF3FC8F5@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Raspberry PI sales continue to grow.

The assembly process of these card size computers, runs until all the
components are used up and then the company hunts up enough new sources to
keep the product going. World sales, even in relationship to the sales of
other major manufactures may small but the continuous stream of these
computers is starting to make a significant dent.

Here is a page for those of us that have one and want to use their unit as a
server, here is how:

http://www.jeremymorgan.com/tutorials/raspberry-pi/how-to-raspberry-pi-file-
server/

The new Parallela, $99.00 supercomputer (http://www.parallella.org/), which
has just started dealing products may be booked solid for the next six
months. The performance of this system is difficult to qualify but the
following, from a white-paper of the product give some of this computer's
power:

"...the Parallela computer is a Zynq-7010 Dual-core ARM A9 CPU, an Epiphany
Multi-core Accelerator, 1GB of RAM, USB 2.0 support, Gigabit Ethernet, and
will be loaded with Ubuntu OS. "Once completed, the 64-core version of the
Parallela computer would deliver over 90 GFLOPS of performance and would
have the horse power comparable to a theoretical 45 GHz CPU..."

45 GHz in comparison to today's 2.5 or over-clocked 3.5 GHz commercial
computers puts the new Parallels in some sort context...around 15x as fast.

Jim       


From accessd at shaw.ca  Mon Feb  4 11:22:05 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2013 09:22:05 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Attacking iOX instead of Windows
In-Reply-To: <9765CA7CDB044469BA882047BF3FC8F5@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <s1043365.093@cactus.dk>	<5104EC4A.32251.43DDAC3A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>	<D01BF04F3EAE4F29B4A0C359A53E9426@creativesystemdesigns.com>	<1359324483.96889929@f59.mail.ru>	<8913B9FCE3044FA9A481C830B907B2EB@creativesystemdesigns.com>	<CAGXtTCgBqFtiOrpCXS1YrB83d2+WX3weqjoJs3pXYS+XXTGBTA@mail.gmail.com>	<5F266C55-F88A-4193-8CCA-EC767925258D@phulse.com>	<CAGXtTChyk+ZijwOVCqAfkQiawfJBAmVNA-HhyHgxMoqHfh7iEg@mail.gmail.com>	<6DCA07CA-9BA7-4288-8D7C-0DA297F37F9F@phulse.com><CAEPJO1jLH6BkNYuOnLerABoHwfh4TK451oKadq4G5_SSSgJ_mg@mail.gmail.com><00bd01ce0253$41c3b890$c54b29b0$@winhaven.net>
	<9765CA7CDB044469BA882047BF3FC8F5@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <0100D4B3FA164FF4B4EFF09E8125A99C@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Windows 8 has been steadily attacked by the entire computer world. 

Will it ever get respect? That is a question for future debates; maybe in
five years or so, we can answer that question. It is not all dislike for
Steve Ballmer that has driven the prejudice but he definitely is the
lightning rod. 

Here is an article that discusses iOS, and its walled garden...a debate long
overdue but that puts Apple's system into clearer focus:

http://macperformanceguide.com/AppleCoreRot-intro.html

Alternative? Some will say Linux, but that is a not true either. Linux
doesn't have blue screens, ever, just streaming verbiage. ;-) Most things
Linux don't work right out of the box and need some subtle fixing...
tweets... hacks... extensive research... another release. 

Aside: What I like about Linux is not its clean cut or its perfectly
manicured lawns (presentations) but the absolute raw energy and its
innovation. It like living in some frontier town...and whether everyone
agrees or disagrees; Linux is the business world and this is where all the
tech makes their money.

So we are stuck with three OSs that are unstable, user hostile and
restrictive in different ways but if you are working in the tech field, pick
your poison, tell your customers to quit whining and don't tell them the
truth (that they are lucky to get something that actually works). ;-)

Jim         


From accessd at shaw.ca  Mon Feb  4 11:38:12 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2013 09:38:12 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Online compilers
In-Reply-To: <0100D4B3FA164FF4B4EFF09E8125A99C@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <s1043365.093@cactus.dk>	<5104EC4A.32251.43DDAC3A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>	<D01BF04F3EAE4F29B4A0C359A53E9426@creativesystemdesigns.com>	<1359324483.96889929@f59.mail.ru>	<8913B9FCE3044FA9A481C830B907B2EB@creativesystemdesigns.com>	<CAGXtTCgBqFtiOrpCXS1YrB83d2+WX3weqjoJs3pXYS+XXTGBTA@mail.gmail.com>	<5F266C55-F88A-4193-8CCA-EC767925258D@phulse.com>	<CAGXtTChyk+ZijwOVCqAfkQiawfJBAmVNA-HhyHgxMoqHfh7iEg@mail.gmail.com>	<6DCA07CA-9BA7-4288-8D7C-0DA297F37F9F@phulse.com><CAEPJO1jLH6BkNYuOnLerABoHwfh4TK451oKadq4G5_SSSgJ_mg@mail.gmail.com><00bd01ce0253$41c3b890$c54b29b0$@winhaven.net><9765CA7CDB044469BA882047BF3FC8F5@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<0100D4B3FA164FF4B4EFF09E8125A99C@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <5F95F016C709462AB8DFC6904DF23B2A@creativesystemdesigns.com>

I have often played with the JavaScript/Webpage online compiler/testers like
jsFiddle but for those that dabble in latest version C++ there are a host of
online compilers available:

http://isocpp.org/blog/2013/01/online-c-compilers

Jim


From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Mon Feb  4 12:57:52 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2013 22:57:52 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech] =?utf-8?q?Online_compilers?=
In-Reply-To: <5F95F016C709462AB8DFC6904DF23B2A@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <s1043365.093@cactus.dk>
	<0100D4B3FA164FF4B4EFF09E8125A99C@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<5F95F016C709462AB8DFC6904DF23B2A@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <1360004272.418960222@f374.mail.ru>

 Yes, ?back to the (true) Nature (of Programming) ?- use C/C++ while developing for WinRT and WinPhones?! :)?

I mean - GoingNative-2012:? http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/GoingNative/GoingNative-2012/Keynote-Bjarne-Stroustrup-Cpp11-Style

-- Shamil

???????????,  4 ??????? 2013, 9:38 -08:00 ?? "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca>:
>I have often played with the JavaScript/Webpage online compiler/testers like
>jsFiddle but for those that dabble in latest version C++ there are a host of
>online compilers available:
>
>http://isocpp.org/blog/2013/01/online-c-compilers
>
>Jim
>
>_______________________________________________
>dba-Tech mailing list
>dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>Website:  http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Mon Feb  4 15:38:47 2013
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2013 07:38:47 +1000
Subject: [dba-Tech] Run your favourite WIndows application on an Android
	tablet?
In-Reply-To: <1360004272.418960222@f374.mail.ru>
References: <s1043365.093@cactus.dk>,
	<5F95F016C709462AB8DFC6904DF23B2A@creativesystemdesigns.com>,
	<1360004272.418960222@f374.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <51102A67.10875.19C66915@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

Don't hold your breath,but it may be coming:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/02/04/android_wine/





From accessd at shaw.ca  Mon Feb  4 16:33:28 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2013 14:33:28 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Run your favourite WIndows application on an
	Androidtablet?
In-Reply-To: <51102A67.10875.19C66915@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
References: <s1043365.093@cactus.dk>,
	<5F95F016C709462AB8DFC6904DF23B2A@creativesystemdesigns.com>,
	<1360004272.418960222@f374.mail.ru>
	<51102A67.10875.19C66915@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
Message-ID: <F6D8855D283A471F852A4B408C3DF6F1@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Stuart:

I already have a client who didn't want to be away from his Office 2007, and
didn't free safe with Libra Office, running his Office on his Ubuntu box.

According to the article Android, Wine and Office do not seem to be a good
fit if performance is the requirement...mind you not so much so if you are
running everything on straight Linux.

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan
Sent: Monday, February 04, 2013 1:39 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: [dba-Tech] Run your favourite WIndows application on an
Androidtablet?

Don't hold your breath,but it may be coming:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/02/04/android_wine/




_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From accessd at shaw.ca  Mon Feb  4 16:37:38 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2013 14:37:38 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Online compilers
In-Reply-To: <1360004272.418960222@f374.mail.ru>
References: <s1043365.093@cactus.dk><0100D4B3FA164FF4B4EFF09E8125A99C@creativesystemdesigns.com><5F95F016C709462AB8DFC6904DF23B2A@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<1360004272.418960222@f374.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <4B6551542F8A438F920475DCA4B897EF@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Shamil:

If you are planning to go back to the roots here is an article might find
interesting:

http://net.tutsplus.com/tutorials/how-to-write-code-that-embraces-change/

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov
Shamil
Sent: Monday, February 04, 2013 10:58 AM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Online compilers

 Yes, ?back to the (true) Nature (of Programming) ?- use C/C++ while
developing for WinRT and WinPhones?! :)?

I mean - GoingNative-2012:?
http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/GoingNative/GoingNative-2012/Keynote-Bjarne-
Stroustrup-Cpp11-Style

-- Shamil

???????????,  4 ??????? 2013, 9:38 -08:00 ?? "Jim Lawrence"
<accessd at shaw.ca>:
>I have often played with the JavaScript/Webpage online compiler/testers
like
>jsFiddle but for those that dabble in latest version C++ there are a host
of
>online compilers available:
>
>http://isocpp.org/blog/2013/01/online-c-compilers
>
>Jim
>
>_______________________________________________
>dba-Tech mailing list
>dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>Website:  http://www.databaseadvisors.com

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Mon Feb  4 16:43:30 2013
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2013 08:43:30 +1000
Subject: [dba-Tech] Run your favourite WIndows application on an
	Androidtablet?
In-Reply-To: <F6D8855D283A471F852A4B408C3DF6F1@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <s1043365.093@cactus.dk>,
	<51102A67.10875.19C66915@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>,
	<F6D8855D283A471F852A4B408C3DF6F1@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <51103992.29306.1A01AB44@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

It's still an early Alpha, do so I don't think that performance is really relevant yet.

It will be interesting to see where in goes in the next 12 months or so.

(I'd love to be able to run some of my PowerBASIC apps directly on my tablet <g>)

-- 
Stuart

On 4 Feb 2013 at 14:33, Jim Lawrence wrote:

> Hi Stuart:
> 
> I already have a client who didn't want to be away from his Office 2007, and
> didn't free safe with Libra Office, running his Office on his Ubuntu box.
> 
> According to the article Android, Wine and Office do not seem to be a good
> fit if performance is the requirement...mind you not so much so if you are
> running everything on straight Linux.
> 
> Jim
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan
> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2013 1:39 PM
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Subject: [dba-Tech] Run your favourite WIndows application on an
> Androidtablet?
> 
> Don't hold your breath,but it may be coming:
> 
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/02/04/android_wine/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 



From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Mon Feb  4 17:29:31 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2013 03:29:31 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech] =?utf-8?q?Online_compilers?=
In-Reply-To: <4B6551542F8A438F920475DCA4B897EF@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <s1043365.093@cactus.dk> <1360004272.418960222@f374.mail.ru>
	<4B6551542F8A438F920475DCA4B897EF@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <1360020571.882081556@f390.i.mail.ru>

 Hi Jim --

Thank you for the link.
I was a kind of kidding but who knows how it all evolve.
I have been programming in C/C++ in the past but I like more C# nowadays.

As for "code that embraces the change" from the article you refer - it's relatively easy to play with that concepts it mentions and I used to play with them in the past ( http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/shamil_s/patterns/calc/index.htm ) in relatively small sample projects but we all know when real life business application projects and customers start to press you you often have to "forget the academics" and to "start producing the raw dirty code" to just pay the bills. As I have written here (in dba-Tech) already I suppose that "the art of balancing on the edge of a technical debt" is one of the main arts/skills of a modern advanced (application) software developer. Of course modern developers should be aware of all the "academics" but more than being aware of academics they should have the real life experience to apply "academic constructions" only when that constructions are really needed to lower technical debt.

-- Shamil

???????????,  4 ??????? 2013, 14:37 -08:00 ?? "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca>:
>Hi Shamil:
>
>If you are planning to go back to the roots here is an article might find
>interesting:
>
>http://net.tutsplus.com/tutorials/how-to-write-code-that-embraces-change/
>
>Jim
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From:  dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov
>Shamil
>Sent: Monday, February 04, 2013 10:58 AM
>To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Online compilers
>
>?Yes, ?back to the (true) Nature (of Programming) ?- use C/C++ while
>developing for WinRT and WinPhones?! :)?
>
>I mean - GoingNative-2012:?
>http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/GoingNative/GoingNative-2012/Keynote-Bjarne-
>Stroustrup-Cpp11-Style
>
>-- Shamil
>
>???????????,  4 ??????? 2013, 9:38 -08:00 ?? "Jim Lawrence"
>< accessd at shaw.ca >:
>>I have often played with the JavaScript/Webpage online compiler/testers
>like
>>jsFiddle but for those that dabble in latest version C++ there are a host
>of
>>online compilers available:
>>
>> http://isocpp.org/blog/2013/01/online-c-compilers
>>
>>Jim
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>dba-Tech mailing list
>>dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>>Website:  http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>_______________________________________________
>dba-Tech mailing list
>dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>Website:  http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>dba-Tech mailing list
>dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>Website:  http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From accessd at shaw.ca  Mon Feb  4 17:50:13 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2013 15:50:13 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Run your favourite Windows application on
	anAndroidtablet?
In-Reply-To: <51103992.29306.1A01AB44@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
References: <s1043365.093@cactus.dk>,
	<51102A67.10875.19C66915@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>,
	<F6D8855D283A471F852A4B408C3DF6F1@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<51103992.29306.1A01AB44@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
Message-ID: <434C634A723E48ADB9888739DA58A79E@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Stuart:

If you are using a command prompt to run PowerBASIC maybe something like
DosBOX might be enough. On Linux boxes it can run some really ancient stuff
that may even stall on Wine or any modern version of Windows for that
matter.

http://www.howtogeek.com/104725/how-to-use-dosbox-to-run-dos-games-and-old-a
pps/

I know it works on any Linux and Apple computers.

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan
Sent: Monday, February 04, 2013 2:44 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Run your favourite WIndows application on
anAndroidtablet?

It's still an early Alpha, do so I don't think that performance is really
relevant yet.

It will be interesting to see where in goes in the next 12 months or so.

(I'd love to be able to run some of my PowerBASIC apps directly on my tablet
<g>)

-- 
Stuart

On 4 Feb 2013 at 14:33, Jim Lawrence wrote:

> Hi Stuart:
> 
> I already have a client who didn't want to be away from his Office 2007,
and
> didn't free safe with Libra Office, running his Office on his Ubuntu box.
> 
> According to the article Android, Wine and Office do not seem to be a good
> fit if performance is the requirement...mind you not so much so if you are
> running everything on straight Linux.
> 
> Jim
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart
McLachlan
> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2013 1:39 PM
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Subject: [dba-Tech] Run your favourite WIndows application on an
> Androidtablet?
> 
> Don't hold your breath,but it may be coming:
> 
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/02/04/android_wine/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 


_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Mon Feb  4 20:29:34 2013
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2013 12:29:34 +1000
Subject: [dba-Tech] Run your favourite Windows application on
	anAndroidtablet?
In-Reply-To: <434C634A723E48ADB9888739DA58A79E@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <s1043365.093@cactus.dk>,
	<51103992.29306.1A01AB44@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>,
	<434C634A723E48ADB9888739DA58A79E@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <51106E8E.4179.1AD0A408@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

Excuse me.  PowerBASIC applications are anything but "ancient stuff".  It's a very powerful  
32bit Windows compiler.

-- 
Stuart

On 4 Feb 2013 at 15:50, Jim Lawrence wrote:

> Hi Stuart:
> 
> If you are using a command prompt to run PowerBASIC maybe something like
> DosBOX might be enough. On Linux boxes it can run some really ancient stuff
> that may even stall on Wine or any modern version of Windows for that
> matter.
> 
> http://www.howtogeek.com/104725/how-to-use-dosbox-to-run-dos-games-and-old-a
> pps/
> 
> I know it works on any Linux and Apple computers.
> 
> Jim
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan
> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2013 2:44 PM
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Run your favourite WIndows application on
> anAndroidtablet?
> 
> It's still an early Alpha, do so I don't think that performance is really
> relevant yet.
> 
> It will be interesting to see where in goes in the next 12 months or so.
> 
> (I'd love to be able to run some of my PowerBASIC apps directly on my tablet
> <g>)
> 
> -- 
> Stuart
> 
> On 4 Feb 2013 at 14:33, Jim Lawrence wrote:
> 
> > Hi Stuart:
> > 
> > I already have a client who didn't want to be away from his Office 2007,
> and
> > didn't free safe with Libra Office, running his Office on his Ubuntu box.
> > 
> > According to the article Android, Wine and Office do not seem to be a good
> > fit if performance is the requirement...mind you not so much so if you are
> > running everything on straight Linux.
> > 
> > Jim
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart
> McLachlan
> > Sent: Monday, February 04, 2013 1:39 PM
> > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> > Subject: [dba-Tech] Run your favourite WIndows application on an
> > Androidtablet?
> > 
> > Don't hold your breath,but it may be coming:
> > 
> > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/02/04/android_wine/
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > dba-Tech mailing list
> > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > dba-Tech mailing list
> > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 



From john at winhaven.net  Mon Feb  4 21:10:55 2013
From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2013 21:10:55 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] http://dromaeo.com/?jslib etc. - IE10 and
	Chrome	24	javascript testw results
In-Reply-To: <70507B2D-D6BC-4757-890D-160525231812@phulse.com>
References: <s10d6a15.078@cactus.dk>	<01f601ce017a$b83bfca0$28b3f5e0$@winhaven.net>
	<70507B2D-D6BC-4757-890D-160525231812@phulse.com>
Message-ID: <017101ce034e$6a0f19b0$3e2d4d10$@winhaven.net>

Lol - I had another instance today where I was working at an electoral
contractor's office. They wanted to watch videos on some new technologies
and IE8 would display the message that they needed to use a browser that
supported HTML 5 standards or download flash player. I was doing something
else with the network equipment so I just said over my shoulder "use Google
Chrome". 
The response: "Tried Chrome, no one here likes it."

OK then install flash.

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian
Andersen
Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 1:54 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] http://dromaeo.com/?jslib etc. - IE10 and Chrome 24
javascript testw results

> Apparently only computer geeks like Chome on a PC.

I'm not sure I'd buy that. Web statistics seem to favour Chrome as the clear
winner in general. It cannot be argued that this is because of android,
because safari is still the clear lead by leaps and bounds. Source:
http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/02/01/apples-ios-mobile-web-share-calls-
into-question-reports-touting-android-sales-supremacy

That must mean that Chrome must be the clear lead on the desktop and I would
have a hard time believing that they are all just geeks.

Regarding Eric Schmidt - I agree, I dislike him as well. He's Google's Steve
Ballmer, but he's no longer CEO of Google. Sergey Brin took that role back
in 2011 - probably for the same reason why Steve Ballmer ought to be fired
from Microsoft (being a bad CEO, making poor decisions and damaging your
brand, etc).


Best regards,
Hans-Christian Andersen


On 2 Feb 2013, at 11:23, "John Bartow" <john at winhaven.net> wrote:

> I have had far more problems with Chrome than with any other browser. 
> I have no idea why.
> 
> The only web public app where Chrome seems to noticeably outperform IE 
> and FF is Facebook(?). And, well, that's just not enough for me. I 
> have an office with 12 virtual terminal devices on one speedy 
> workstation. We try to get everyone to use Chrome (because its 
> supposedly lighter on resources). As I Walk through the office most 
> people use IE, even after I've taken all the shortcuts icons off 
> except the menu structure. Apparently only computer geeks like Chrome on a
PC.
> 
> I personally don't like Chrome's sparse and restrictive UI. I don't 
> like that IE10 is following in its footsteps when loaded in Windows 8 tile
mode.
> I prefer to have a UI with parts that I can turn on/off to suit my 
> personal tastes. For instance, I prefer my RoboForm toolbar at the 
> top. Call it years of IE indoctrination but that's just my preference. 
> I cannot do this with Chrome. With Chrome it has to be an obstructing 
> overlay on the bottom of the window. I can have the way I want it with 
> IE and FF. So for me Chrome is the one which forces their way on me.
> 
> I'm liking Google less and less since Eric Schmidt took over as CEO. I 
> didn't care for him at Sun or Novell either. IMO he is to blame for 
> making Google just another "evil" technology company.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav 
> Brock
> Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 12:34 PM
> To: dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com
> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] http://dromaeo.com/?jslib etc. - IE10 and 
> Chrome 24 javascript testw results
> 
> Hi Shamil
> 
> Oh yes, you are missing that IE-version-whatever per definition is and 
> for ever will be bad cruelware. Microsoft just can't write decent 
> software. It's that simple. To some.
> 
> /gustav
> 
> 
>>>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 02-02-13 18:55 >>>
> 
> - am I missing something?
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From hans.andersen at phulse.com  Mon Feb  4 22:26:12 2013
From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2013 20:26:12 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] http://dromaeo.com/?jslib etc. - IE10 and Chrome	24
	javascript testw results
In-Reply-To: <017101ce034e$6a0f19b0$3e2d4d10$@winhaven.net>
References: <s10d6a15.078@cactus.dk>	<01f601ce017a$b83bfca0$28b3f5e0$@winhaven.net>
	<70507B2D-D6BC-4757-890D-160525231812@phulse.com>
	<017101ce034e$6a0f19b0$3e2d4d10$@winhaven.net>
Message-ID: <08181943-2619-4A96-8D1E-6C415FC21BCD@phulse.com>


That's funny. I can count on a single hand those who have ever said they prefer Internet Explorer. IE usually ends up the butt of some joke.

But, whatever... I don't dislike IE 10. Seems to me that Microsoft is trying to turn a new leaf with a better browser and their promoting of HTML5 / CSS3 is nice, but I still don't see IE ever gaining market share again and that's a good thing. The browser wars are long over. :)

- Hans



On 2013-02-04, at 7:10 PM, "John Bartow" <john at winhaven.net> wrote:

> Lol - I had another instance today where I was working at an electoral
> contractor's office. They wanted to watch videos on some new technologies
> and IE8 would display the message that they needed to use a browser that
> supported HTML 5 standards or download flash player. I was doing something
> else with the network equipment so I just said over my shoulder "use Google
> Chrome". 
> The response: "Tried Chrome, no one here likes it."
> 
> OK then install flash.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian
> Andersen
> Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 1:54 PM
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] http://dromaeo.com/?jslib etc. - IE10 and Chrome 24
> javascript testw results
> 
>> Apparently only computer geeks like Chome on a PC.
> 
> I'm not sure I'd buy that. Web statistics seem to favour Chrome as the clear
> winner in general. It cannot be argued that this is because of android,
> because safari is still the clear lead by leaps and bounds. Source:
> http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/02/01/apples-ios-mobile-web-share-calls-
> into-question-reports-touting-android-sales-supremacy
> 
> That must mean that Chrome must be the clear lead on the desktop and I would
> have a hard time believing that they are all just geeks.
> 
> Regarding Eric Schmidt - I agree, I dislike him as well. He's Google's Steve
> Ballmer, but he's no longer CEO of Google. Sergey Brin took that role back
> in 2011 - probably for the same reason why Steve Ballmer ought to be fired
> from Microsoft (being a bad CEO, making poor decisions and damaging your
> brand, etc).
> 
> 
> Best regards,
> Hans-Christian Andersen
> 
> 
> On 2 Feb 2013, at 11:23, "John Bartow" <john at winhaven.net> wrote:
> 
>> I have had far more problems with Chrome than with any other browser. 
>> I have no idea why.
>> 
>> The only web public app where Chrome seems to noticeably outperform IE 
>> and FF is Facebook(?). And, well, that's just not enough for me. I 
>> have an office with 12 virtual terminal devices on one speedy 
>> workstation. We try to get everyone to use Chrome (because its 
>> supposedly lighter on resources). As I Walk through the office most 
>> people use IE, even after I've taken all the shortcuts icons off 
>> except the menu structure. Apparently only computer geeks like Chrome on a
> PC.
>> 
>> I personally don't like Chrome's sparse and restrictive UI. I don't 
>> like that IE10 is following in its footsteps when loaded in Windows 8 tile
> mode.
>> I prefer to have a UI with parts that I can turn on/off to suit my 
>> personal tastes. For instance, I prefer my RoboForm toolbar at the 
>> top. Call it years of IE indoctrination but that's just my preference. 
>> I cannot do this with Chrome. With Chrome it has to be an obstructing 
>> overlay on the bottom of the window. I can have the way I want it with 
>> IE and FF. So for me Chrome is the one which forces their way on me.
>> 
>> I'm liking Google less and less since Eric Schmidt took over as CEO. I 
>> didn't care for him at Sun or Novell either. IMO he is to blame for 
>> making Google just another "evil" technology company.
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav 
>> Brock
>> Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 12:34 PM
>> To: dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com
>> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] http://dromaeo.com/?jslib etc. - IE10 and 
>> Chrome 24 javascript testw results
>> 
>> Hi Shamil
>> 
>> Oh yes, you are missing that IE-version-whatever per definition is and 
>> for ever will be bad cruelware. Microsoft just can't write decent 
>> software. It's that simple. To some.
>> 
>> /gustav
>> 
>> 
>>>>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 02-02-13 18:55 >>>
>> 
>> - am I missing something?
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> dba-Tech mailing list
>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> dba-Tech mailing list
>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From accessd at shaw.ca  Tue Feb  5 00:56:30 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2013 22:56:30 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Run your favourite Windows application
	onanAndroidtablet?
In-Reply-To: <51106E8E.4179.1AD0A408@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
References: <s1043365.093@cactus.dk>,
	<51103992.29306.1A01AB44@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>,
	<434C634A723E48ADB9888739DA58A79E@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<51106E8E.4179.1AD0A408@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
Message-ID: <E7E2D59B4E2A4395AAD2088993BC21F9@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Stuart:

Oh wow. 

It is easy to get confused because the last time I looked. their web site
was something out of the '90s and the name of the application is PowerBASIC,
which suggests something even older. I would even bet they still sell 16bit
versions. ;-)

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan
Sent: Monday, February 04, 2013 6:30 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Run your favourite Windows application
onanAndroidtablet?

Excuse me.  PowerBASIC applications are anything but "ancient stuff".  It's
a very powerful  
32bit Windows compiler.

-- 
Stuart

On 4 Feb 2013 at 15:50, Jim Lawrence wrote:

> Hi Stuart:
> 
> If you are using a command prompt to run PowerBASIC maybe something like
> DosBOX might be enough. On Linux boxes it can run some really ancient
stuff
> that may even stall on Wine or any modern version of Windows for that
> matter.
> 
>
http://www.howtogeek.com/104725/how-to-use-dosbox-to-run-dos-games-and-old-a
> pps/
> 
> I know it works on any Linux and Apple computers.
> 
> Jim
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart
McLachlan
> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2013 2:44 PM
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Run your favourite WIndows application on
> anAndroidtablet?
> 
> It's still an early Alpha, do so I don't think that performance is really
> relevant yet.
> 
> It will be interesting to see where in goes in the next 12 months or so.
> 
> (I'd love to be able to run some of my PowerBASIC apps directly on my
tablet
> <g>)
> 
> -- 
> Stuart
> 
> On 4 Feb 2013 at 14:33, Jim Lawrence wrote:
> 
> > Hi Stuart:
> > 
> > I already have a client who didn't want to be away from his Office 2007,
> and
> > didn't free safe with Libra Office, running his Office on his Ubuntu
box.
> > 
> > According to the article Android, Wine and Office do not seem to be a
good
> > fit if performance is the requirement...mind you not so much so if you
are
> > running everything on straight Linux.
> > 
> > Jim
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart
> McLachlan
> > Sent: Monday, February 04, 2013 1:39 PM
> > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> > Subject: [dba-Tech] Run your favourite WIndows application on an
> > Androidtablet?
> > 
> > Don't hold your breath,but it may be coming:
> > 
> > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/02/04/android_wine/
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > dba-Tech mailing list
> > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > dba-Tech mailing list
> > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 


_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From hans.andersen at phulse.com  Tue Feb  5 01:19:22 2013
From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2013 23:19:22 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Online compilers
In-Reply-To: <1360004272.418960222@f374.mail.ru>
References: <s1043365.093@cactus.dk>
	<0100D4B3FA164FF4B4EFF09E8125A99C@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<5F95F016C709462AB8DFC6904DF23B2A@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<1360004272.418960222@f374.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <6F16AD59-2887-4B49-AA21-04AC9BDC675E@phulse.com>

> I mean - GoingNative-2012

Hm. Interesting choice in naming that event. I almost half-imagined Bjarne Stroustrup to be wearing a loin cloth.


- Hans


On 2013-02-04, at 10:57 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil <mcp2004 at mail.ru> wrote:

> Yes,  back to the (true) Nature (of Programming)  - use C/C++ while developing for WinRT and WinPhones ! :) 
> 
> I mean - GoingNative-2012:  http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/GoingNative/GoingNative-2012/Keynote-Bjarne-Stroustrup-Cpp11-Style
> 
> -- Shamil
> 
> ???????????,  4 ??????? 2013, 9:38 -08:00 ?? "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca>:
>> I have often played with the JavaScript/Webpage online compiler/testers like
>> jsFiddle but for those that dabble in latest version C++ there are a host of
>> online compilers available:
>> 
>> http://isocpp.org/blog/2013/01/online-c-compilers
>> 
>> Jim
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> dba-Tech mailing list
>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>> Website:  http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Tue Feb  5 01:21:06 2013
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2013 17:21:06 +1000
Subject: [dba-Tech] Run your favourite Windows application
	onanAndroidtablet?
In-Reply-To: <E7E2D59B4E2A4395AAD2088993BC21F9@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <s1043365.093@cactus.dk>,
	<51106E8E.4179.1AD0A408@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>,
	<E7E2D59B4E2A4395AAD2088993BC21F9@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <5110B2E2.451.1BDB8BDC@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

They do still sell their old PowerBASIC for DOS  :-)

But you might like to look at http://www.powerbasic.com/products/pbdll32/:

"PowerBASIC for Windows creates applications with a Graphical User Interface (GUI), to 
provide the typical "Look and Feel" of Windows. This is a native code compiler for all 
versions of Windows, from Windows 95 to Windows 7. It creates highly efficient EXEs and 
industry-standard DLLs, with Regular Expressions, multi-threading, a built-in Assembler, a 
full Macro facility, Create client COM applications and COM components using Dispatch, 
Direct, Automation, or Dual interfaces, and much more. The machine code generated by 
PowerBASIC is among the best in the industry, both in terms of size and execution speed."


-- 
Stuart

On 4 Feb 2013 at 22:56, Jim Lawrence wrote:

> Hi Stuart:
> 
> Oh wow. 
> 
> It is easy to get confused because the last time I looked. their web site
> was something out of the '90s and the name of the application is PowerBASIC,
> which suggests something even older. I would even bet they still sell 16bit
> versions. ;-)
> 
> Jim
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan
> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2013 6:30 PM
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Run your favourite Windows application
> onanAndroidtablet?
> 
> Excuse me.  PowerBASIC applications are anything but "ancient stuff".  It's
> a very powerful  
> 32bit Windows compiler.
> 
> -- 
> Stuart
> 
> On 4 Feb 2013 at 15:50, Jim Lawrence wrote:
> 
> > Hi Stuart:
> > 
> > If you are using a command prompt to run PowerBASIC maybe something like
> > DosBOX might be enough. On Linux boxes it can run some really ancient
> stuff
> > that may even stall on Wine or any modern version of Windows for that
> > matter.
> > 
> >
> http://www.howtogeek.com/104725/how-to-use-dosbox-to-run-dos-games-and-old-a
> > pps/
> > 
> > I know it works on any Linux and Apple computers.
> > 
> > Jim
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart
> McLachlan
> > Sent: Monday, February 04, 2013 2:44 PM
> > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Run your favourite WIndows application on
> > anAndroidtablet?
> > 
> > It's still an early Alpha, do so I don't think that performance is really
> > relevant yet.
> > 
> > It will be interesting to see where in goes in the next 12 months or so.
> > 
> > (I'd love to be able to run some of my PowerBASIC apps directly on my
> tablet
> > <g>)
> > 
> > -- 
> > Stuart
> > 
> > On 4 Feb 2013 at 14:33, Jim Lawrence wrote:
> > 
> > > Hi Stuart:
> > > 
> > > I already have a client who didn't want to be away from his Office 2007,
> > and
> > > didn't free safe with Libra Office, running his Office on his Ubuntu
> box.
> > > 
> > > According to the article Android, Wine and Office do not seem to be a
> good
> > > fit if performance is the requirement...mind you not so much so if you
> are
> > > running everything on straight Linux.
> > > 
> > > Jim
> > > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> > > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart
> > McLachlan
> > > Sent: Monday, February 04, 2013 1:39 PM
> > > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> > > Subject: [dba-Tech] Run your favourite WIndows application on an
> > > Androidtablet?
> > > 
> > > Don't hold your breath,but it may be coming:
> > > 
> > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/02/04/android_wine/
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > dba-Tech mailing list
> > > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > dba-Tech mailing list
> > > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > dba-Tech mailing list
> > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > dba-Tech mailing list
> > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 



From hans.andersen at phulse.com  Tue Feb  5 01:21:20 2013
From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2013 23:21:20 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Run your favourite Windows application on
	anAndroidtablet?
In-Reply-To: <434C634A723E48ADB9888739DA58A79E@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <s1043365.093@cactus.dk>,
	<51102A67.10875.19C66915@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>,
	<F6D8855D283A471F852A4B408C3DF6F1@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<51103992.29306.1A01AB44@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
	<434C634A723E48ADB9888739DA58A79E@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <3BCBC1DB-FB4C-4698-8F50-F0CA1762D2DD@phulse.com>


How about FreeDOS? http://www.freedos.org/

- Hans


On 2013-02-04, at 3:50 PM, "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:

> Hi Stuart:
> 
> If you are using a command prompt to run PowerBASIC maybe something like
> DosBOX might be enough. On Linux boxes it can run some really ancient stuff
> that may even stall on Wine or any modern version of Windows for that
> matter.
> 
> http://www.howtogeek.com/104725/how-to-use-dosbox-to-run-dos-games-and-old-a
> pps/
> 
> I know it works on any Linux and Apple computers.
> 
> Jim
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan
> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2013 2:44 PM
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Run your favourite WIndows application on
> anAndroidtablet?
> 
> It's still an early Alpha, do so I don't think that performance is really
> relevant yet.
> 
> It will be interesting to see where in goes in the next 12 months or so.
> 
> (I'd love to be able to run some of my PowerBASIC apps directly on my tablet
> <g>)
> 
> -- 
> Stuart
> 
> On 4 Feb 2013 at 14:33, Jim Lawrence wrote:
> 
>> Hi Stuart:
>> 
>> I already have a client who didn't want to be away from his Office 2007,
> and
>> didn't free safe with Libra Office, running his Office on his Ubuntu box.
>> 
>> According to the article Android, Wine and Office do not seem to be a good
>> fit if performance is the requirement...mind you not so much so if you are
>> running everything on straight Linux.
>> 
>> Jim
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart
> McLachlan
>> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2013 1:39 PM
>> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>> Subject: [dba-Tech] Run your favourite WIndows application on an
>> Androidtablet?
>> 
>> Don't hold your breath,but it may be coming:
>> 
>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/02/04/android_wine/
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> dba-Tech mailing list
>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> dba-Tech mailing list
>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Tue Feb  5 03:52:59 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2013 13:52:59 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech] =?utf-8?b?4oCcRGVwZW5kIG9uIG1lLCBhbmQgSeKAmWxsIHNldCB5?=
	=?utf-8?b?b3UgZnJlZSHigJ0=?=
Message-ID: <1360057979.416930223@f7.mail.ru>

 Hi All --

It's funny I've just planned to try to implement one experimental project using "No DB" (NoSQL) approach - and here I have got an interesting "rant article" arrived :)

http://blog.8thlight.com/uncle-bob/2012/05/15/NODB.html

Thank you.

-- Shamil?

From hans.andersen at phulse.com  Tue Feb  5 04:19:09 2013
From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2013 02:19:09 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech]
 =?windows-1252?q?=93Depend_on_me=2C_and_I=92ll_set_you?=
 =?windows-1252?q?_free!=94?=
In-Reply-To: <1360057979.416930223@f7.mail.ru>
References: <1360057979.416930223@f7.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <3BC4C8C6-115F-4DFD-9EB5-31518A7DF8D0@phulse.com>

We can all thank MemCache for opening the floodgates and lifting the prohibition. It still bugs me when other developers insist on using the database as the cache or be used for impermanent data, such as cookie sessions, message queuing and etc. But, I digress... memcache became an immediate hit in the early days for web developers who realised that RDBMS performance really sucks if you want to scale your architecture. And then the seed was planted and people started to realise they wanted something with the simplicity of memcache but the utility of a RDBMS.

(redis is quite nice, i hear couchbase is also pretty neat, but I haven't played with it yet).

- hans



On 2013-02-05, at 1:52 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil <mcp2004 at mail.ru> wrote:

> Hi All --
> 
> It's funny I've just planned to try to implement one experimental project using "No DB" (NoSQL) approach - and here I have got an interesting "rant article" arrived :)
> 
> http://blog.8thlight.com/uncle-bob/2012/05/15/NODB.html
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> -- Shamil 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Tue Feb  5 05:01:25 2013
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2013 21:01:25 +1000
Subject: [dba-Tech]
	=?utf-8?b?4oCcRGVwZW5kIG9uIG1lLCBhbmQgSeKAmWxsIHNldCB5?=
	=?utf-8?b?b3UgZnJlZSHigJ0=?=
In-Reply-To: <1360057979.416930223@f7.mail.ru>
References: <1360057979.416930223@f7.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <5110E685.14703.1CA53F76@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

Rant is the word all right.

There are so many things wrong with his arguments that I don't know where to begin. But a 
few immediate points:

He clearly can't tell the difference between "relational database" and "SQL".  
He thinks that a database engine which uses BTree indexing can't be "relational"  (He 
obviously never worked with Dataflex)

His characterisation of all databases as "big, stogy, slow, expensive pain in the rear." 
demonstrates a clear lack of  experience in using them.

How the h*ll can you develop and *test* the use cases and business rules without the 
underlying data?

The data model IS the core of any real world bsiness system.

It's tragic that "an award winning author, renowned speaker, and ?ber software geek since 
1970" has carried the same baggage around with him for 40 odd years.

--
Stuart

P.S.  He was right about one thing though - American beer. Until recently it was like sex in a 
canoe.


On 5 Feb 2013 at 13:52, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote:

>  Hi All --
> 
> It's funny I've just planned to try to implement one experimental
> project using "No DB" (NoSQL) approach - and here I have got an
> interesting "rant article" arrived :) 
> 
> http://blog.8thlight.com/uncle-bob/2012/05/15/NODB.html
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> -- Shamil?
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com




From gustav at cactus.dk  Tue Feb  5 05:50:50 2013
From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2013 12:50:50 +0100
Subject: [dba-Tech]
	=?iso-8859-1?q?=22Depend_on_me=2C_and_I=27ll_set_you_f?=
	=?iso-8859-1?q?ree!=22?=
Message-ID: <007001ce0397$0b61b1e0$222515a0$@cactus.dk>

Hi Stuart

Yes, never heard of this "award winning author" probably for a reason.
It sounds like he didn't understand data and relations and never intended to
do - which is why he was substituted back then.

Of course, he is right that the data is not the application, but whos says
so?

It would be more interesting to learn what Shamil is doing with No SQL ...

/gustav

PS: I do remember my first meeting with American beer back in the 80's. It
was a Miller Light. It was a .. eh, miss words, eh .. surprise. I believe it
has changed a lot since then.


-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Stuart McLachlan
Sendt: 5. februar 2013 12:01
Til: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Emne: Re: [dba-Tech] ?Depend on me, and I?ll set you free!?

Rant is the word all right.

There are so many things wrong with his arguments that I don't know where to
begin. But a few immediate points:

He clearly can't tell the difference between "relational database" and
"SQL".  
He thinks that a database engine which uses BTree indexing can't be
"relational"  (He obviously never worked with Dataflex)

His characterisation of all databases as "big, stogy, slow, expensive pain
in the rear." 
demonstrates a clear lack of  experience in using them.

How the h*ll can you develop and *test* the use cases and business rules
without the underlying data?

The data model IS the core of any real world bsiness system.

It's tragic that "an award winning author, renowned speaker, and ?ber
software geek since 1970" has carried the same baggage around with him for
40 odd years.

--
Stuart

P.S.  He was right about one thing though - American beer. Until recently it
was like sex in a canoe.


On 5 Feb 2013 at 13:52, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote:

>  Hi All --
> 
> It's funny I've just planned to try to implement one experimental
> project using "No DB" (NoSQL) approach - and here I have got an
> interesting "rant article" arrived :) 
> 
> http://blog.8thlight.com/uncle-bob/2012/05/15/NODB.html
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> -- Shamil? 



From michael at mattysconsulting.com  Tue Feb  5 07:33:11 2013
From: michael at mattysconsulting.com (Michael Mattys)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2013 08:33:11 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech]
	=?utf-8?b?4oCcRGVwZW5kIG9uIG1lLCBhbmQgSeKAmWxsIHNldCB5?=
	=?utf-8?b?b3UgZnJlZSHigJ0=?=
In-Reply-To: <1360057979.416930223@f7.mail.ru>
References: <1360057979.416930223@f7.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <005301ce03a5$592a88d0$0b7f9a70$@mattysconsulting.com>

This man wields logical fallacy masterfully, aka "Marketing"

According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CouchDB, "each database is a collection of independent documents. Each document maintains its own data and self-contained schema."

This implies that these documents have some sort of organization that could later be useful in data-mining using MapReduce (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MapReduce)

So, yes, this can retrieve web pages based on the date or some keyword.

Since NoSQL typically (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NoSQL ) offers little functionality beyond record storage (e.g. key?value stores), 
it appears to be completely inappropriate for maintaining, say, an accounting system, inventory, or recording business transactions.

The proposal of the "use case" as a panacea for relational database functionality is, at best, bewildering.

Michael R Mattys
Mattys Consulting, LLC
www.mattysconsulting.com


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 4:53 AM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: [dba-Tech] ?Depend on me, and I?ll set you free!?

 Hi All --

It's funny I've just planned to try to implement one experimental project using "No DB" (NoSQL) approach - and here I have got an interesting "rant article" arrived :)

http://blog.8thlight.com/uncle-bob/2012/05/15/NODB.html

Thank you.

-- Shamil 
_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From peter.brawley at earthlink.net  Tue Feb  5 09:34:01 2013
From: peter.brawley at earthlink.net (Peter Brawley)
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2013 09:34:01 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech]
 =?windows-1252?q?=93Depend_on_me=2C_and_I=92ll_set_you?=
 =?windows-1252?q?_free!=94?=
In-Reply-To: <3BC4C8C6-115F-4DFD-9EB5-31518A7DF8D0@phulse.com>
References: <1360057979.416930223@f7.mail.ru>
	<3BC4C8C6-115F-4DFD-9EB5-31518A7DF8D0@phulse.com>
Message-ID: <51112669.8070601@earthlink.net>

/"The center of your application are the use cases of your application."

He dislikes databases, and grammar. But he has this part right:
/
/"What is the best time to determine your data model? When you know what 
the data entities are, how they are related, and how they are used. When 
do you know that? When you?ve gotten all the use cases and business 
rules written/and tested/."

PB

-----//

/
On 2013-02-05 4:19 AM, Hans-Christian Andersen wrote:
> We can all thank MemCache for opening the floodgates and lifting the prohibition. It still bugs me when other developers insist on using the database as the cache or be used for impermanent data, such as cookie sessions, message queuing and etc. But, I digress... memcache became an immediate hit in the early days for web developers who realised that RDBMS performance really sucks if you want to scale your architecture. And then the seed was planted and people started to realise they wanted something with the simplicity of memcache but the utility of a RDBMS.
>
> (redis is quite nice, i hear couchbase is also pretty neat, but I haven't played with it yet).
>
> - hans
>
>
>
> On 2013-02-05, at 1:52 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil <mcp2004 at mail.ru> wrote:
>
>> Hi All --
>>
>> It's funny I've just planned to try to implement one experimental project using "No DB" (NoSQL) approach - and here I have got an interesting "rant article" arrived :)
>>
>> http://blog.8thlight.com/uncle-bob/2012/05/15/NODB.html
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> -- Shamil
>> _______________________________________________
>> dba-Tech mailing list
>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>


From accessd at shaw.ca  Tue Feb  5 10:46:54 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2013 08:46:54 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Web RTC built in
In-Reply-To: <51112669.8070601@earthlink.net>
References: <1360057979.416930223@f7.mail.ru><3BC4C8C6-115F-4DFD-9EB5-31518A7DF8D0@phulse.com>
	<51112669.8070601@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <EA11435D7CD34808943941B51E455B85@creativesystemdesigns.com>

FireFox and Chrome have both added new features to their browsers that will
allow direct audio and video calling without third party applications or
plug-in. The capabilities is now build right in the browsers.

Along with the article is a small chunk of code showing how this can be
implemented via web page and JavaScript.

https://hacks.mozilla.org/2013/02/hello-chrome-its-firefox-calling/

I understand the both Opera and Safari have similar projects in the works
but as always whether IE will follow the W3C protocol communications
standards or go it alone is anyone's guess. Microsoft does have a large
investment in Skype so this may predetermine their next move.

Jim


From john at winhaven.net  Tue Feb  5 10:50:42 2013
From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2013 10:50:42 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] "Depend on me, and I'll set you free!"
In-Reply-To: <5110E685.14703.1CA53F76@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
References: <1360057979.416930223@f7.mail.ru>
	<5110E685.14703.1CA53F76@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
Message-ID: <00bd01ce03c0$ef9274c0$ceb75e40$@winhaven.net>

Can't disagree when it comes to the mass marketed beer brands. We've had
good breweries in Wisconsin forever. 'tis our old world heritage. Although I
am normally enjoy porters and stouts I have always enjoyed the local
seasonal bocks of the area.

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 5:01 AM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] "Depend on me, and I'll set you free!"

Stuart

P.S.  He was right about one thing though - American beer. Until recently it
was like sex in a canoe.


From accessd at shaw.ca  Tue Feb  5 11:00:38 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2013 09:00:38 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Run your favourite Windows
	applicationonanAndroidtablet?
In-Reply-To: <5110B2E2.451.1BDB8BDC@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
References: <s1043365.093@cactus.dk>,
	<51106E8E.4179.1AD0A408@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>,
	<E7E2D59B4E2A4395AAD2088993BC21F9@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<5110B2E2.451.1BDB8BDC@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
Message-ID: <66AEDB36BB71460EBA640BF20BA62974@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Stuart:

All kidding aside, PowerBASIC looks like great product and a way to extend
VB skills plus it adds a host of additional features.

I used a great product called Clarion for years; even built a focused
industry application that we sold for years. It would compile and ran very
fast but alas it was wiped out but a host of weaker but better advertised
products.

Does PowerBASIC sell on any other platforms like iOS and Linux...or even
Windows 8 for that matter? What type of database does it use? Can it connect
to other data sources? Does it have features that will allow it to extend
into the web? Is the company building a Cloud implementation?

Jim   

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan
Sent: Monday, February 04, 2013 11:21 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Run your favourite Windows
applicationonanAndroidtablet?

They do still sell their old PowerBASIC for DOS  :-)

But you might like to look at http://www.powerbasic.com/products/pbdll32/:

"PowerBASIC for Windows creates applications with a Graphical User Interface
(GUI), to 
provide the typical "Look and Feel" of Windows. This is a native code
compiler for all 
versions of Windows, from Windows 95 to Windows 7. It creates highly
efficient EXEs and 
industry-standard DLLs, with Regular Expressions, multi-threading, a
built-in Assembler, a 
full Macro facility, Create client COM applications and COM components using
Dispatch, 
Direct, Automation, or Dual interfaces, and much more. The machine code
generated by 
PowerBASIC is among the best in the industry, both in terms of size and
execution speed."


-- 
Stuart

On 4 Feb 2013 at 22:56, Jim Lawrence wrote:

> Hi Stuart:
> 
> Oh wow. 
> 
> It is easy to get confused because the last time I looked. their web site
> was something out of the '90s and the name of the application is
PowerBASIC,
> which suggests something even older. I would even bet they still sell
16bit
> versions. ;-)
> 
> Jim
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart
McLachlan
> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2013 6:30 PM
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Run your favourite Windows application
> onanAndroidtablet?
> 
> Excuse me.  PowerBASIC applications are anything but "ancient stuff".
It's
> a very powerful  
> 32bit Windows compiler.
> 
> -- 
> Stuart
> 
> On 4 Feb 2013 at 15:50, Jim Lawrence wrote:
> 
> > Hi Stuart:
> > 
> > If you are using a command prompt to run PowerBASIC maybe something like
> > DosBOX might be enough. On Linux boxes it can run some really ancient
> stuff
> > that may even stall on Wine or any modern version of Windows for that
> > matter.
> > 
> >
>
http://www.howtogeek.com/104725/how-to-use-dosbox-to-run-dos-games-and-old-a
> > pps/
> > 
> > I know it works on any Linux and Apple computers.
> > 
> > Jim
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart
> McLachlan
> > Sent: Monday, February 04, 2013 2:44 PM
> > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Run your favourite WIndows application on
> > anAndroidtablet?
> > 
> > It's still an early Alpha, do so I don't think that performance is
really
> > relevant yet.
> > 
> > It will be interesting to see where in goes in the next 12 months or so.
> > 
> > (I'd love to be able to run some of my PowerBASIC apps directly on my
> tablet
> > <g>)
> > 
> > -- 
> > Stuart
> > 
> > On 4 Feb 2013 at 14:33, Jim Lawrence wrote:
> > 
> > > Hi Stuart:
> > > 
> > > I already have a client who didn't want to be away from his Office
2007,
> > and
> > > didn't free safe with Libra Office, running his Office on his Ubuntu
> box.
> > > 
> > > According to the article Android, Wine and Office do not seem to be a
> good
> > > fit if performance is the requirement...mind you not so much so if you
> are
> > > running everything on straight Linux.
> > > 
> > > Jim
> > > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> > > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart
> > McLachlan
> > > Sent: Monday, February 04, 2013 1:39 PM
> > > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> > > Subject: [dba-Tech] Run your favourite WIndows application on an
> > > Androidtablet?
> > > 
> > > Don't hold your breath,but it may be coming:
> > > 
> > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/02/04/android_wine/
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > dba-Tech mailing list
> > > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > dba-Tech mailing list
> > > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > dba-Tech mailing list
> > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > dba-Tech mailing list
> > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 


_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From accessd at shaw.ca  Tue Feb  5 11:12:00 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2013 09:12:00 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech]
	=?iso-8859-1?q?=22Depend_on_me=2C_and_I=27ll_set_you_f?=
	=?iso-8859-1?q?ree!=22?=
In-Reply-To: <1360057979.416930223@f7.mail.ru>
References: <1360057979.416930223@f7.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <68E7489D85DC4228BDBCAD61BF436108@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Shamil:

Now that is a good article. 

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov
Shamil
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 1:53 AM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: [dba-Tech] ?Depend on me, and I?ll set you free!?

 Hi All --

It's funny I've just planned to try to implement one experimental project
using "No DB" (NoSQL) approach - and here I have got an interesting "rant
article" arrived :)

http://blog.8thlight.com/uncle-bob/2012/05/15/NODB.html

Thank you.

-- Shamil?
_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From hans.andersen at phulse.com  Tue Feb  5 11:24:22 2013
From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2013 09:24:22 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] "Depend on me, and I'll set you free!"
In-Reply-To: <007001ce0397$0b61b1e0$222515a0$@cactus.dk>
References: <007001ce0397$0b61b1e0$222515a0$@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <2904335E-42FA-49B5-A13C-794B858210AD@phulse.com>

Aye. Agreed. Working with web applications, more often than not, the database is the heart of the application.

Also, sometimes requirements may change (this is the reality of life and business), so you can't have all your data structures perfectly set up off the bat. Which is why most modern web applications have middleware to handle database migrations.

Rails and Django handle this very well out of the box. I would not work without it again.


- Hans


On 2013-02-05, at 3:50 AM, "Gustav Brock" <gustav at cactus.dk> wrote:

> Hi Stuart
> 
> Yes, never heard of this "award winning author" probably for a reason.
> It sounds like he didn't understand data and relations and never intended to
> do - which is why he was substituted back then.
> 
> Of course, he is right that the data is not the application, but whos says
> so?
> 
> It would be more interesting to learn what Shamil is doing with No SQL ...
> 
> /gustav
> 
> PS: I do remember my first meeting with American beer back in the 80's. It
> was a Miller Light. It was a .. eh, miss words, eh .. surprise. I believe it
> has changed a lot since then.
> 
> 
> -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
> Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Stuart McLachlan
> Sendt: 5. februar 2013 12:01
> Til: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Emne: Re: [dba-Tech] ?Depend on me, and I?ll set you free!?
> 
> Rant is the word all right.
> 
> There are so many things wrong with his arguments that I don't know where to
> begin. But a few immediate points:
> 
> He clearly can't tell the difference between "relational database" and
> "SQL".  
> He thinks that a database engine which uses BTree indexing can't be
> "relational"  (He obviously never worked with Dataflex)
> 
> His characterisation of all databases as "big, stogy, slow, expensive pain
> in the rear." 
> demonstrates a clear lack of  experience in using them.
> 
> How the h*ll can you develop and *test* the use cases and business rules
> without the underlying data?
> 
> The data model IS the core of any real world bsiness system.
> 
> It's tragic that "an award winning author, renowned speaker, and ?ber
> software geek since 1970" has carried the same baggage around with him for
> 40 odd years.
> 
> --
> Stuart
> 
> P.S.  He was right about one thing though - American beer. Until recently it
> was like sex in a canoe.
> 
> 
> On 5 Feb 2013 at 13:52, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote:
> 
>> Hi All --
>> 
>> It's funny I've just planned to try to implement one experimental
>> project using "No DB" (NoSQL) approach - and here I have got an
>> interesting "rant article" arrived :) 
>> 
>> http://blog.8thlight.com/uncle-bob/2012/05/15/NODB.html
>> 
>> Thank you.
>> 
>> -- Shamil 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From accessd at shaw.ca  Tue Feb  5 12:01:03 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2013 10:01:03 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech]
	=?iso-8859-1?q?=22Depend_on_me=2C_and_I=27ll_set_you_f?=
	=?iso-8859-1?q?ree!=22?=
In-Reply-To: <5110E685.14703.1CA53F76@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
References: <1360057979.416930223@f7.mail.ru>
	<5110E685.14703.1CA53F76@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
Message-ID: <C35D0E4E09324C84B0A434D2539759E0@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi All:

I worked on a huge database that held all the government's and in
particularly the Attorney Generals Ministry financial records. The one giant
data storage held all the account receivable, purchase orders, client
ledgers, accounts payable, general ledgers and so on. 

It was all in one giant distributive data storage system and it ran on
B-tree structure of keys and indexes. The system was running on equipment
that we would think primitive by today's standards but from any terminal, in
the province, a clerk, depending on clearance rights, could access any
records or grouping in seconds. 

The most active users were connected through coax cables; bundles and
bundles of them. (actually did some of the wiring...definitely not a
pleasant task) Most of the remote terminal connections were connected via a
300 baud modems, the data source was in one room with six UNIX servers
(eventually Linux boxes).

This whole system was not relational as we would know it but it did the job
very effectively.

The old database has been moved to an Oracle database system and the costs
were about 100 millions dollars to do it. The new system requires over a
thousand servers. It now even requires overnight batches to retrieve a
special reports and according to the users the whole system run
significantly slower.

This is one clear example where relational databases just do not cut it. I
am sure there are many examples where traditional databases just don't work.
Much of the internet runs on non-relational databases. 

With most of our clients, they just don't have enough data to worry about
and we could get away with series of cascading hierarchical spreadsheets
that could furfill all their needs. Relational databases with a SQL FE are
just the standards we use to but are hardly the only solutions.        

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 3:01 AM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech]?Depend on me, and I?ll set you free!?

Rant is the word all right.

There are so many things wrong with his arguments that I don't know where to
begin. But a 
few immediate points:

He clearly can't tell the difference between "relational database" and
"SQL".  
He thinks that a database engine which uses BTree indexing can't be
"relational"  (He 
obviously never worked with Dataflex)

His characterisation of all databases as "big, stogy, slow, expensive pain
in the rear." 
demonstrates a clear lack of  experience in using them.

How the h*ll can you develop and *test* the use cases and business rules
without the 
underlying data?

The data model IS the core of any real world bsiness system.

It's tragic that "an award winning author, renowned speaker, and ?ber
software geek since 
1970" has carried the same baggage around with him for 40 odd years.

--
Stuart

P.S.  He was right about one thing though - American beer. Until recently it
was like sex in a 
canoe.


On 5 Feb 2013 at 13:52, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote:

>  Hi All --
> 
> It's funny I've just planned to try to implement one experimental
> project using "No DB" (NoSQL) approach - and here I have got an
> interesting "rant article" arrived :) 
> 
> http://blog.8thlight.com/uncle-bob/2012/05/15/NODB.html
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> -- Shamil?
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From accessd at shaw.ca  Tue Feb  5 12:06:31 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2013 10:06:31 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] "Depend on me, and I'll set you free!"
In-Reply-To: <00bd01ce03c0$ef9274c0$ceb75e40$@winhaven.net>
References: <1360057979.416930223@f7.mail.ru><5110E685.14703.1CA53F76@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
	<00bd01ce03c0$ef9274c0$ceb75e40$@winhaven.net>
Message-ID: <F84E5ABB15354929A12EDB3C21A81109@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi John:

In our area micro breweries are springing up like mushrooms and the brews
are just excellent. (Example: in one ten block square we have six such
ventures.) 

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 8:51 AM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] "Depend on me, and I'll set you free!"

Can't disagree when it comes to the mass marketed beer brands. We've had
good breweries in Wisconsin forever. 'tis our old world heritage. Although I
am normally enjoy porters and stouts I have always enjoyed the local
seasonal bocks of the area.

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 5:01 AM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] "Depend on me, and I'll set you free!"

Stuart

P.S.  He was right about one thing though - American beer. Until recently it
was like sex in a canoe.

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From ssharkins at gmail.com  Tue Feb  5 12:28:56 2013
From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2013 13:28:56 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] "Depend on me, and I'll set you free!"
References: <1360057979.416930223@f7.mail.ru><5110E685.14703.1CA53F76@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
	<00bd01ce03c0$ef9274c0$ceb75e40$@winhaven.net>
Message-ID: <84EB3D9082214A028900BA270C0CB988@SusanHarkins>

Until recently it
> was like sex in a canoe.


======Sounds like maybe you don't know what you're doing. :) 

Susan H. 

From john at winhaven.net  Tue Feb  5 12:48:47 2013
From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2013 12:48:47 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] "Depend on me, and I'll set you free!"
In-Reply-To: <84EB3D9082214A028900BA270C0CB988@SusanHarkins>
References: <1360057979.416930223@f7.mail.ru><5110E685.14703.1CA53F76@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>	<00bd01ce03c0$ef9274c0$ceb75e40$@winhaven.net>
	<84EB3D9082214A028900BA270C0CB988@SusanHarkins>
Message-ID: <010601ce03d1$6e5670d0$4b035270$@winhaven.net>

Lol - I was thinking the same! ;-)

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 12:29 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] "Depend on me, and I'll set you free!"

Until recently it
> was like sex in a canoe.


======Sounds like maybe you don't know what you're doing. :) 

Susan H. 
_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From john at winhaven.net  Tue Feb  5 12:48:47 2013
From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2013 12:48:47 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] "Depend on me, and I'll set you free!"
In-Reply-To: <F84E5ABB15354929A12EDB3C21A81109@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <1360057979.416930223@f7.mail.ru><5110E685.14703.1CA53F76@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>	<00bd01ce03c0$ef9274c0$ceb75e40$@winhaven.net>
	<F84E5ABB15354929A12EDB3C21A81109@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <010701ce03d1$6e77b470$4b671d50$@winhaven.net>

Lots of new microbreweries springing up around here in the last decade.
Another new one about 30 miles from here should open in about 2 months. I've
been watching the progress of their new building progress on Facebook. I
enjoy many of their brews too - but not all.

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 12:07 PM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] "Depend on me, and I'll set you free!"

Hi John:

In our area micro breweries are springing up like mushrooms and the brews
are just excellent. (Example: in one ten block square we have six such
ventures.) 

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 8:51 AM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] "Depend on me, and I'll set you free!"

Can't disagree when it comes to the mass marketed beer brands. We've had
good breweries in Wisconsin forever. 'tis our old world heritage. Although I
am normally enjoy porters and stouts I have always enjoyed the local
seasonal bocks of the area.

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 5:01 AM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] "Depend on me, and I'll set you free!"

Stuart

P.S.  He was right about one thing though - American beer. Until recently it
was like sex in a canoe.

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From tinanfields at torchlake.com  Tue Feb  5 14:07:53 2013
From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields)
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2013 15:07:53 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech]
 =?windows-1252?q?=93Depend_on_me=2C_and_I=92ll_set_you?=
 =?windows-1252?q?_free!=94?=
In-Reply-To: <5110E685.14703.1CA53F76@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
References: <1360057979.416930223@f7.mail.ru>
	<5110E685.14703.1CA53F76@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
Message-ID: <51116699.2090000@torchlake.com>

"sex in a canoe"?  Immediately, I was thinking of some smart-aleck 
response, when I remembered this story:

My dad, who will be 92 in April, has always enjoyed the outdoors and 
especially the water.  He used to do quite a bit of skin-diving and 
snorkeling - and canoeing.  Our region is called the Elk River Chain of 
Lakes - a chain of fourteen lakes and rivers, whose headwaters rise up 
in one of the glacial drumlins of the northwestern quadrant of 
Michigan's lower peninsula, and that winds its way seventy-five miles 
down to the east arm of Grand Traverse Bay on Lake Michigan.  At 
fourteen, my dad made the trek up and down that chain with his dad, in a 
canoe, camping along the way.  At the end of their adventure - which I 
think was a couple weeks long - my dad came triumphantly into the family 
home, proclaiming this wonderful trip, loudly celebrating his first time 
through the Chain of Lakes in a canoe.  His mother, a magnificent woman 
of many capabilities, quietly said to him that it was not his first trip 
down that chain.  It seems that he was conceived during his parents' 
honeymoon canoe trip up and down the Chain of Lakes.  He may have gone 
up the chain with his father, but by the time his parents came down the 
chain, he was with his mother. Maybe there's more to sex in a canoe than 
we originally thought!

Thanks, Stuart, for a delightful moment of recollection.

T

Tina Norris Fields
tinanfields at torchlake.com
231-322-2787

On 2/5/2013 6:01 AM, Stuart McLachlan wrote:
> Rant is the word all right.
>
> There are so many things wrong with his arguments that I don't know where to begin. But a
> few immediate points:
>
> He clearly can't tell the difference between "relational database" and "SQL".
> He thinks that a database engine which uses BTree indexing can't be "relational"  (He
> obviously never worked with Dataflex)
>
> His characterisation of all databases as "big, stogy, slow, expensive pain in the rear."
> demonstrates a clear lack of  experience in using them.
>
> How the h*ll can you develop and *test* the use cases and business rules without the
> underlying data?
>
> The data model IS the core of any real world bsiness system.
>
> It's tragic that "an award winning author, renowned speaker, and ?ber software geek since
> 1970" has carried the same baggage around with him for 40 odd years.
>
> --
> Stuart
>
> P.S.  He was right about one thing though - American beer. Until recently it was like sex in a
> canoe.
>
>
> On 5 Feb 2013 at 13:52, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote:
>
>>   Hi All --
>>
>> It's funny I've just planned to try to implement one experimental
>> project using "No DB" (NoSQL) approach - and here I have got an
>> interesting "rant article" arrived :)
>>
>> http://blog.8thlight.com/uncle-bob/2012/05/15/NODB.html
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> -- Shamil
>> _______________________________________________
>> dba-Tech mailing list
>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>


From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Tue Feb  5 15:21:14 2013
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2013 07:21:14 +1000
Subject: [dba-Tech]
	=?utf-8?b?4oCcRGVwZW5kIG9uIG1lLCBhbmQgSeKAmWxsIHNldCB5?=
	=?utf-8?b?b3UgZnJlZSHigJ0=?=
In-Reply-To: <51112669.8070601@earthlink.net>
References: <1360057979.416930223@f7.mail.ru>,
	<3BC4C8C6-115F-4DFD-9EB5-31518A7DF8D0@phulse.com>,
	<51112669.8070601@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <511177CA.24380.1EDCB5E8@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

Does he have it right?

What does he mean by  "written".  Is that  "documented" or "coded"?

He says "use cases and business rules written and tested"   To test, you need code.   
That means he is defining "written" as "coded", not "documented"..

Use cases and business rules documented?   Yes - that's a fundamental part of systems 
design.

Coded and tested? No way before you have the data model!

-- 
Stuart


On 5 Feb 2013 at 9:34, Peter Brawley wrote:

> /"The center of your application are the use cases of your application."
> 
> He dislikes databases, and grammar. But he has this part right:
> /
> /"What is the best time to determine your data model? When you know what 
> the data entities are, how they are related, and how they are used. When 
> do you know that? When you?ve gotten all the use cases and business 
> rules written/and tested/."
> 
> PB
> 
> -----//
> 
> /
> On 2013-02-05 4:19 AM, Hans-Christian Andersen wrote:
> > We can all thank MemCache for opening the floodgates and lifting the prohibition. It still bugs me when other developers insist on using the database as the cache or be used for impermanent data, such as cookie sessions, message queuing and etc. But, I digress... memcache became an immediate hit in the early days for web developers who realised that RDBMS performance really sucks if you want to scale your architecture. And then the seed was planted and people started to realise they wanted something with the simplicity of memcache but the utility of a RDBMS.
> >
> > (redis is quite nice, i hear couchbase is also pretty neat, but I haven't played with it yet).
> >
> > - hans
> >
> >
> >
> > On 2013-02-05, at 1:52 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil <mcp2004 at mail.ru> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi All --
> >>
> >> It's funny I've just planned to try to implement one experimental project using "No DB" (NoSQL) approach - and here I have got an interesting "rant article" arrived :)
> >>
> >> http://blog.8thlight.com/uncle-bob/2012/05/15/NODB.html
> >>
> >> Thank you.
> >>
> >> -- Shamil
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> dba-Tech mailing list
> >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > dba-Tech mailing list
> > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 




From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Tue Feb  5 16:12:25 2013
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2013 08:12:25 +1000
Subject: [dba-Tech] Run your favourite Windows
	applicationonanAndroidtablet?
In-Reply-To: <66AEDB36BB71460EBA640BF20BA62974@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <s1043365.093@cactus.dk>,
	<5110B2E2.451.1BDB8BDC@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>,
	<66AEDB36BB71460EBA640BF20BA62974@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <511183C9.5480.1F0B9050@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

Hi Jim,

Other platforms?   Purely Windows atm. The only thing they say is:
"PowerBASIC for Linux is under development, and it's quite a high priority for us. However, 
we maintain a strict "No Vaporware" policy, so more details are not available at this time. 
Please watch our web site at www.powerbasic.com as info will be posted there as soon as 
it's available."

It's been "under development" for many years now with no change to that statement.  :-(
I suspect that we will see the 64bit compiler well before we see a Linux version.

Apparently it runs fine on WIn8 x86  (not RT).  There are a few early adopters in the PB 
forums who have given it a good workout with no problems.


Database:  It can use any database that you like (unless they are proprietory with no public 
API or ODBC driver)

I use it with:
Flat text files (using Basic's OPEN..., PUT, GET)
SQLite (using direct calls to the SQLite DLL)
Access (using DAO or ODBC)
SQLServer (using ODBC)
mySQL (using ODBC - there are also wrappers available to use the mySQL embedded DLL)
Oracle (using ODBC)
Jade (using ODBC - Yuck!!!)

For ODBC, I use a third party addon called SQLTools - it's rock solid and has a load of high 
level functions that save me a lot of time.
  
Now that I' doing Android tablet development, it is proving very useful for transferring data 
between corporate information systems and the tablet's SQLite. 


Web features?
a. Some use it to write compiled CGI applications behind their WIndows hosted websites 
since it is easy to work with STDIN, STDOUT and STDERR and databases. 

b. If you want low level control, it has built in commands such as :
HOST NAME |ADDR for DNS resolution
TCP OPEN | ACCEPT | RECEIVE | SEND | PRINT | LINE INPUT  etc    

c. If you want to keep it simple, it has COM capabilities and full access to the Wndows API so 
you can use things like the API IXMLHTTPRequest object with a couple of lines of code.

d. I've written a simple "content management system" in PowerBasic which allows users to 
enter image names and blocks of text into a template.  They just click a button and the 
application embeds the content in web pages and FTPs them to a website. 

Cloud implementation:
WTF is a "cloud implementation" of a complier and IDE? :-)


-- 
Stuart

On 5 Feb 2013 at 9:00, Jim Lawrence wrote:

> Hi Stuart:
> 
> All kidding aside, PowerBASIC looks like great product and a way to extend
> VB skills plus it adds a host of additional features.
> 
> I used a great product called Clarion for years; even built a focused
> industry application that we sold for years. It would compile and ran very
> fast but alas it was wiped out but a host of weaker but better advertised
> products.
> 
> Does PowerBASIC sell on any other platforms like iOS and Linux...or even
> Windows 8 for that matter? What type of database does it use? Can it connect
> to other data sources? Does it have features that will allow it to extend
> into the web? Is the company building a Cloud implementation?
> 
> Jim   
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan
> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2013 11:21 PM
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Run your favourite Windows
> applicationonanAndroidtablet?
> 
> They do still sell their old PowerBASIC for DOS  :-)
> 
> But you might like to look at http://www.powerbasic.com/products/pbdll32/:
> 
> "PowerBASIC for Windows creates applications with a Graphical User Interface
> (GUI), to 
> provide the typical "Look and Feel" of Windows. This is a native code
> compiler for all 
> versions of Windows, from Windows 95 to Windows 7. It creates highly
> efficient EXEs and 
> industry-standard DLLs, with Regular Expressions, multi-threading, a
> built-in Assembler, a 
> full Macro facility, Create client COM applications and COM components using
> Dispatch, 
> Direct, Automation, or Dual interfaces, and much more. The machine code
> generated by 
> PowerBASIC is among the best in the industry, both in terms of size and
> execution speed."
> 
> 
> -- 
> Stuart
> 
> On 4 Feb 2013 at 22:56, Jim Lawrence wrote:
> 
> > Hi Stuart:
> > 
> > Oh wow. 
> > 
> > It is easy to get confused because the last time I looked. their web site
> > was something out of the '90s and the name of the application is
> PowerBASIC,
> > which suggests something even older. I would even bet they still sell
> 16bit
> > versions. ;-)
> > 
> > Jim
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart
> McLachlan
> > Sent: Monday, February 04, 2013 6:30 PM
> > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Run your favourite Windows application
> > onanAndroidtablet?
> > 
> > Excuse me.  PowerBASIC applications are anything but "ancient stuff".
> It's
> > a very powerful  
> > 32bit Windows compiler.
> > 
> > -- 
> > Stuart
> > 
> > On 4 Feb 2013 at 15:50, Jim Lawrence wrote:
> > 
> > > Hi Stuart:
> > > 
> > > If you are using a command prompt to run PowerBASIC maybe something like
> > > DosBOX might be enough. On Linux boxes it can run some really ancient
> > stuff
> > > that may even stall on Wine or any modern version of Windows for that
> > > matter.
> > > 
> > >
> >
> http://www.howtogeek.com/104725/how-to-use-dosbox-to-run-dos-games-and-old-a
> > > pps/
> > > 
> > > I know it works on any Linux and Apple computers.
> > > 
> > > Jim
> > > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> > > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart
> > McLachlan
> > > Sent: Monday, February 04, 2013 2:44 PM
> > > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> > > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Run your favourite WIndows application on
> > > anAndroidtablet?
> > > 
> > > It's still an early Alpha, do so I don't think that performance is
> really
> > > relevant yet.
> > > 
> > > It will be interesting to see where in goes in the next 12 months or so.
> > > 
> > > (I'd love to be able to run some of my PowerBASIC apps directly on my
> > tablet
> > > <g>)
> > > 
> > > -- 
> > > Stuart
> > > 
> > > On 4 Feb 2013 at 14:33, Jim Lawrence wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Hi Stuart:
> > > > 
> > > > I already have a client who didn't want to be away from his Office
> 2007,
> > > and
> > > > didn't free safe with Libra Office, running his Office on his Ubuntu
> > box.
> > > > 
> > > > According to the article Android, Wine and Office do not seem to be a
> > good
> > > > fit if performance is the requirement...mind you not so much so if you
> > are
> > > > running everything on straight Linux.
> > > > 
> > > > Jim
> > > > 
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> > > > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart
> > > McLachlan
> > > > Sent: Monday, February 04, 2013 1:39 PM
> > > > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> > > > Subject: [dba-Tech] Run your favourite WIndows application on an
> > > > Androidtablet?
> > > > 
> > > > Don't hold your breath,but it may be coming:
> > > > 
> > > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/02/04/android_wine/
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > dba-Tech mailing list
> > > > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > > > 
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > dba-Tech mailing list
> > > > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > dba-Tech mailing list
> > > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > dba-Tech mailing list
> > > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > dba-Tech mailing list
> > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > dba-Tech mailing list
> > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 



From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Tue Feb  5 16:15:04 2013
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2013 08:15:04 +1000
Subject: [dba-Tech] "Depend on me, and I'll set you free!"
In-Reply-To: <84EB3D9082214A028900BA270C0CB988@SusanHarkins>
References: <1360057979.416930223@f7.mail.ru>,
	<84EB3D9082214A028900BA270C0CB988@SusanHarkins>
Message-ID: <51118468.27123.1F0DFD64@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

Sex in a canoe =  F*king near water.

-- 
Stuart

On 5 Feb 2013 at 13:28, Susan Harkins wrote:

> Until recently it
> > was like sex in a canoe.
> 
> 
> ======Sounds like maybe you don't know what you're doing. :) 
> 
> Susan H. 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 



From tinanfields at torchlake.com  Tue Feb  5 16:25:01 2013
From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields)
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2013 17:25:01 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] "Depend on me, and I'll set you free!"
In-Reply-To: <51118468.27123.1F0DFD64@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
References: <1360057979.416930223@f7.mail.ru>,
	<84EB3D9082214A028900BA270C0CB988@SusanHarkins>
	<51118468.27123.1F0DFD64@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
Message-ID: <511186BD.2030307@torchlake.com>

Yeah, I know.  Did you see my story?
T

Tina Norris Fields
tinanfields at torchlake.com
231-322-2787

On 2/5/2013 5:15 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote:
> Sex in a canoe =  F*king near water.
>


From peter.brawley at earthlink.net  Tue Feb  5 16:44:37 2013
From: peter.brawley at earthlink.net (Peter Brawley)
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2013 16:44:37 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech]
 =?windows-1252?q?=93Depend_on_me=2C_and_I=92ll_set_you?=
 =?windows-1252?q?_free!=94?=
In-Reply-To: <511177CA.24380.1EDCB5E8@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
References: <1360057979.416930223@f7.mail.ru>,
	<3BC4C8C6-115F-4DFD-9EB5-31518A7DF8D0@phulse.com>,
	<51112669.8070601@earthlink.net>
	<511177CA.24380.1EDCB5E8@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
Message-ID: <51118B55.3090107@earthlink.net>

On 2013-02-05 3:21 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote:
> Does he have it right?
>
> What does he mean by  "written".  Is that  "documented" or "coded"?

I assumed documented and they survived analytic walkthrough, 'cuz 
'coded' would make no sense without a data backend.

PB

-----

>
> He says "use cases and business rules written and tested"   To test, you need code.
> That means he is defining "written" as "coded", not "documented"..
>
> Use cases and business rules documented?   Yes - that's a fundamental part of systems
> design.
>
> Coded and tested? No way before you have the data model!
>


From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Tue Feb  5 17:06:12 2013
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2013 09:06:12 +1000
Subject: [dba-Tech]
	=?utf-8?b?4oCcRGVwZW5kIG9uIG1lLCBhbmQgSeKAmWxsIHNldCB5?=
	=?utf-8?b?b3UgZnJlZSHigJ0=?=
In-Reply-To: <51118B55.3090107@earthlink.net>
References: <1360057979.416930223@f7.mail.ru>,
	<511177CA.24380.1EDCB5E8@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>,
	<51118B55.3090107@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <51119064.2882.1F3CCEB7@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

His understanding of "tested" is obviously different to mine then :-)

-- 
Stuart

On 5 Feb 2013 at 16:44, Peter Brawley wrote:

> On 2013-02-05 3:21 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote:
> > Does he have it right?
> >
> > What does he mean by  "written".  Is that  "documented" or "coded"?
> 
> I assumed documented and they survived analytic walkthrough, 'cuz 
> 'coded' would make no sense without a data backend.
> 
> PB
> 
> -----
> 
> >
> > He says "use cases and business rules written and tested"   To test, you need code.
> > That means he is defining "written" as "coded", not "documented"..
> >
> > Use cases and business rules documented?   Yes - that's a fundamental part of systems
> > design.
> >
> > Coded and tested? No way before you have the data model!
> >
> 
> 



From peter.brawley at earthlink.net  Tue Feb  5 18:36:38 2013
From: peter.brawley at earthlink.net (Peter Brawley)
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2013 18:36:38 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech]
 =?windows-1252?q?=93Depend_on_me=2C_and_I=92ll_set_you?=
 =?windows-1252?q?_free!=94?=
In-Reply-To: <51119064.2882.1F3CCEB7@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
References: <1360057979.416930223@f7.mail.ru>,
	<511177CA.24380.1EDCB5E8@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>,
	<51118B55.3090107@earthlink.net>
	<51119064.2882.1F3CCEB7@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
Message-ID: <5111A596.6060503@earthlink.net>


On 2013-02-05 5:06 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote:
> His understanding of "tested" is obviously different to mine then :-)

Yeah, his understanding of a lotta things is different.

PB

>


From michael at mattysconsulting.com  Tue Feb  5 21:15:22 2013
From: michael at mattysconsulting.com (Michael Mattys)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2013 22:15:22 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech]
	=?utf-8?b?4oCcRGVwZW5kIG9uIG1lLCBhbmQgSeKAmWxsIHNldCB5?=
	=?utf-8?b?b3UgZnJlZSHigJ0=?=
In-Reply-To: <1360057979.416930223@f7.mail.ru>
References: <1360057979.416930223@f7.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <008c01ce0418$3433a890$9c9af9b0$@mattysconsulting.com>

Shamil,

Is your purpose in planning to use "No DB" to analyze 'Big Data?'

Michael R Mattys
Mattys Consulting, LLC
www.mattysconsulting.com


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 4:53 AM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: [dba-Tech] ?Depend on me, and I?ll set you free!?

 Hi All --

It's funny I've just planned to try to implement one experimental project using "No DB" (NoSQL) approach - and here I have got an interesting "rant article" arrived :)

http://blog.8thlight.com/uncle-bob/2012/05/15/NODB.html

Thank you.

-- Shamil 
_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From accessd at shaw.ca  Tue Feb  5 23:46:15 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2013 21:46:15 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Run your favourite
	WindowsapplicationonanAndroidtablet?
In-Reply-To: <511183C9.5480.1F0B9050@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
References: <s1043365.093@cactus.dk>,
	<5110B2E2.451.1BDB8BDC@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>,
	<66AEDB36BB71460EBA640BF20BA62974@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<511183C9.5480.1F0B9050@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
Message-ID: <710FBA6FC1F349DFB0A59E4C642A604D@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Stuart:

It use to be that Linux was strictly the preserve of free OSS but not any
more. In the latest version of Ubuntu 12.04 (there is actually a 12.10 but
it is just too close to the bleeding edge), things are changing.

You can download software for free or pay from $10.00 up to $2,800.00...an
SAP package through Ubuntu's vetted Software Center process.

I believe this policy will attract more companies to port their packages to
Linux. If PowerBASIC can make the jump that will open up a lot of doors into
the business world. I will look forward to that so keep me posted.

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 2:12 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Run your favourite
WindowsapplicationonanAndroidtablet?

Hi Jim,

Other platforms?   Purely Windows atm. The only thing they say is:
"PowerBASIC for Linux is under development, and it's quite a high priority
for us. However, 
we maintain a strict "No Vaporware" policy, so more details are not
available at this time. 
Please watch our web site at www.powerbasic.com as info will be posted there
as soon as 
it's available."

It's been "under development" for many years now with no change to that
statement.  :-(
I suspect that we will see the 64bit compiler well before we see a Linux
version.

Apparently it runs fine on WIn8 x86  (not RT).  There are a few early
adopters in the PB 
forums who have given it a good workout with no problems.


Database:  It can use any database that you like (unless they are
proprietory with no public 
API or ODBC driver)

I use it with:
Flat text files (using Basic's OPEN..., PUT, GET)
SQLite (using direct calls to the SQLite DLL)
Access (using DAO or ODBC)
SQLServer (using ODBC)
mySQL (using ODBC - there are also wrappers available to use the mySQL
embedded DLL)
Oracle (using ODBC)
Jade (using ODBC - Yuck!!!)

For ODBC, I use a third party addon called SQLTools - it's rock solid and
has a load of high 
level functions that save me a lot of time.
  
Now that I' doing Android tablet development, it is proving very useful for
transferring data 
between corporate information systems and the tablet's SQLite. 


Web features?
a. Some use it to write compiled CGI applications behind their WIndows
hosted websites 
since it is easy to work with STDIN, STDOUT and STDERR and databases. 

b. If you want low level control, it has built in commands such as :
HOST NAME |ADDR for DNS resolution
TCP OPEN | ACCEPT | RECEIVE | SEND | PRINT | LINE INPUT  etc    

c. If you want to keep it simple, it has COM capabilities and full access to
the Wndows API so 
you can use things like the API IXMLHTTPRequest object with a couple of
lines of code.

d. I've written a simple "content management system" in PowerBasic which
allows users to 
enter image names and blocks of text into a template.  They just click a
button and the 
application embeds the content in web pages and FTPs them to a website. 

Cloud implementation:
WTF is a "cloud implementation" of a complier and IDE? :-)


-- 
Stuart

On 5 Feb 2013 at 9:00, Jim Lawrence wrote:

> Hi Stuart:
> 
> All kidding aside, PowerBASIC looks like great product and a way to extend
> VB skills plus it adds a host of additional features.
> 
> I used a great product called Clarion for years; even built a focused
> industry application that we sold for years. It would compile and ran very
> fast but alas it was wiped out but a host of weaker but better advertised
> products.
> 
> Does PowerBASIC sell on any other platforms like iOS and Linux...or even
> Windows 8 for that matter? What type of database does it use? Can it
connect
> to other data sources? Does it have features that will allow it to extend
> into the web? Is the company building a Cloud implementation?
> 
> Jim   
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart
McLachlan
> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2013 11:21 PM
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Run your favourite Windows
> applicationonanAndroidtablet?
> 
> They do still sell their old PowerBASIC for DOS  :-)
> 
> But you might like to look at http://www.powerbasic.com/products/pbdll32/:
> 
> "PowerBASIC for Windows creates applications with a Graphical User
Interface
> (GUI), to 
> provide the typical "Look and Feel" of Windows. This is a native code
> compiler for all 
> versions of Windows, from Windows 95 to Windows 7. It creates highly
> efficient EXEs and 
> industry-standard DLLs, with Regular Expressions, multi-threading, a
> built-in Assembler, a 
> full Macro facility, Create client COM applications and COM components
using
> Dispatch, 
> Direct, Automation, or Dual interfaces, and much more. The machine code
> generated by 
> PowerBASIC is among the best in the industry, both in terms of size and
> execution speed."
> 
> 
> -- 
> Stuart
> 
> On 4 Feb 2013 at 22:56, Jim Lawrence wrote:
> 
> > Hi Stuart:
> > 
> > Oh wow. 
> > 
> > It is easy to get confused because the last time I looked. their web
site
> > was something out of the '90s and the name of the application is
> PowerBASIC,
> > which suggests something even older. I would even bet they still sell
> 16bit
> > versions. ;-)
> > 
> > Jim
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart
> McLachlan
> > Sent: Monday, February 04, 2013 6:30 PM
> > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Run your favourite Windows application
> > onanAndroidtablet?
> > 
> > Excuse me.  PowerBASIC applications are anything but "ancient stuff".
> It's
> > a very powerful  
> > 32bit Windows compiler.
> > 
> > -- 
> > Stuart
> > 
> > On 4 Feb 2013 at 15:50, Jim Lawrence wrote:
> > 
> > > Hi Stuart:
> > > 
> > > If you are using a command prompt to run PowerBASIC maybe something
like
> > > DosBOX might be enough. On Linux boxes it can run some really ancient
> > stuff
> > > that may even stall on Wine or any modern version of Windows for that
> > > matter.
> > > 
> > >
> >
>
http://www.howtogeek.com/104725/how-to-use-dosbox-to-run-dos-games-and-old-a
> > > pps/
> > > 
> > > I know it works on any Linux and Apple computers.
> > > 
> > > Jim
> > > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> > > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart
> > McLachlan
> > > Sent: Monday, February 04, 2013 2:44 PM
> > > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> > > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Run your favourite WIndows application on
> > > anAndroidtablet?
> > > 
> > > It's still an early Alpha, do so I don't think that performance is
> really
> > > relevant yet.
> > > 
> > > It will be interesting to see where in goes in the next 12 months or
so.
> > > 
> > > (I'd love to be able to run some of my PowerBASIC apps directly on my
> > tablet
> > > <g>)
> > > 
> > > -- 
> > > Stuart
> > > 
> > > On 4 Feb 2013 at 14:33, Jim Lawrence wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Hi Stuart:
> > > > 
> > > > I already have a client who didn't want to be away from his Office
> 2007,
> > > and
> > > > didn't free safe with Libra Office, running his Office on his Ubuntu
> > box.
> > > > 
> > > > According to the article Android, Wine and Office do not seem to be
a
> > good
> > > > fit if performance is the requirement...mind you not so much so if
you
> > are
> > > > running everything on straight Linux.
> > > > 
> > > > Jim
> > > > 
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> > > > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart
> > > McLachlan
> > > > Sent: Monday, February 04, 2013 1:39 PM
> > > > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> > > > Subject: [dba-Tech] Run your favourite WIndows application on an
> > > > Androidtablet?
> > > > 
> > > > Don't hold your breath,but it may be coming:
> > > > 
> > > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/02/04/android_wine/
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > dba-Tech mailing list
> > > > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > > > 
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > dba-Tech mailing list
> > > > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > dba-Tech mailing list
> > > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > dba-Tech mailing list
> > > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > dba-Tech mailing list
> > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > dba-Tech mailing list
> > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 


_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From accessd at shaw.ca  Wed Feb  6 00:09:14 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2013 22:09:14 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Microsoft is now helping to build and improve Webit
In-Reply-To: <EA11435D7CD34808943941B51E455B85@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <1360057979.416930223@f7.mail.ru><3BC4C8C6-115F-4DFD-9EB5-31518A7DF8D0@phulse.com><51112669.8070601@earthlink.net>
	<EA11435D7CD34808943941B51E455B85@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <B8E3073FCAD944A8886AEF1FE8B3C9E0@creativesystemdesigns.com>

In a bit of a turn around Microsoft has decided to support Webkit and has
actually added a series of touch capabilities to product.

Quote: "...The contribution comes not long after Redmond encouraged Web
developers to remember Internet Explorer and not assume that WebKit is the
only rendering engine that's used on the mobile, touch-oriented Web..."

So many web tech developers have abandoned developing in Internet Explorer,
all together (less than 15 percent of developers now admit to supporting IE)
that even the MS management have started to realize that if they want IE to
survive and they and other browsers just have to start following industry
standards. Better late than never to join the W3C choir. 

http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/12/microsoft-offers-patch
es-to-webkit-to-aid-touch-compatibility/

Jim


From accessd at shaw.ca  Wed Feb  6 00:34:58 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2013 22:34:58 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] JavaScript is tragically important: One developer's
	journey from C# to JavaScript
In-Reply-To: <B8E3073FCAD944A8886AEF1FE8B3C9E0@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <1360057979.416930223@f7.mail.ru><3BC4C8C6-115F-4DFD-9EB5-31518A7DF8D0@phulse.com><51112669.8070601@earthlink.net><EA11435D7CD34808943941B51E455B85@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<B8E3073FCAD944A8886AEF1FE8B3C9E0@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <0DE505E48ED84642875568C6626C85B5@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi All:

Everyone hates JavaScript as it doesn't behave like a real language should.
Its rules are loose to say the least; if you have learned to speak/write the
English language with all its inconsistencies, you can learn JavaScript. ;-)

Quote: "...The ubiquitous nature of JavaScript means that the pain of
framework and platform deployment is a thing of the past. The browser is the
platform, the Internet is the deployment model. Thanks to the browser
manufacturers there are no frameworks to deploy, no installers to execute,
no administrator permissions issues, and virtually no versioning issues.
Regardless of your personal feelings about JavaScript it is undoubtedly the
single most important computer language in the world today...

...The hands-down winner is JavaScript. I believe that, in the current state
of technology learning, JavaScript is the best investment you can make for
your career. In fact, I believe that, in the near future, JavaScript will be
an essential tool in virtually every developer's toolbox..."

http://www.simple-talk.com/opinion/opinion-pieces/a-sudden-move-one-develope
r%E2%80%99s-journey-from-c-to-javascript/

So get on the band-wagon boys and girls.

Jim  


From hans.andersen at phulse.com  Wed Feb  6 01:48:55 2013
From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2013 23:48:55 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Microsoft is now helping to build and improve Webit
In-Reply-To: <B8E3073FCAD944A8886AEF1FE8B3C9E0@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <1360057979.416930223@f7.mail.ru>
	<3BC4C8C6-115F-4DFD-9EB5-31518A7DF8D0@phulse.com>
	<51112669.8070601@earthlink.net>
	<EA11435D7CD34808943941B51E455B85@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<B8E3073FCAD944A8886AEF1FE8B3C9E0@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <BD9B4801-A887-4BB0-9DE4-6179CAA28BCB@phulse.com>

Yay. This is what I've been saying, except that MS should drop their Trident engine and replace it with WebKit. That would be the ideal scenario.

- Hans


On 2013-02-05, at 10:09 PM, "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:

> In a bit of a turn around Microsoft has decided to support Webkit and has
> actually added a series of touch capabilities to product.
> 
> Quote: "...The contribution comes not long after Redmond encouraged Web
> developers to remember Internet Explorer and not assume that WebKit is the
> only rendering engine that's used on the mobile, touch-oriented Web..."
> 
> So many web tech developers have abandoned developing in Internet Explorer,
> all together (less than 15 percent of developers now admit to supporting IE)
> that even the MS management have started to realize that if they want IE to
> survive and they and other browsers just have to start following industry
> standards. Better late than never to join the W3C choir. 
> 
> http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/12/microsoft-offers-patch
> es-to-webkit-to-aid-touch-compatibility/
> 
> Jim
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From accessd at shaw.ca  Wed Feb  6 01:55:02 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2013 23:55:02 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] MS Office on Linux?
In-Reply-To: <0DE505E48ED84642875568C6626C85B5@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <1360057979.416930223@f7.mail.ru><3BC4C8C6-115F-4DFD-9EB5-31518A7DF8D0@phulse.com><51112669.8070601@earthlink.net><EA11435D7CD34808943941B51E455B85@creativesystemdesigns.com><B8E3073FCAD944A8886AEF1FE8B3C9E0@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<0DE505E48ED84642875568C6626C85B5@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <11E7B606CBDF454081F0CF94F031A25F@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi All:

Just received this email and according to rumours and probably good ones,
Microsoft is thinking very seriously of porting MS Office to Linux. It is
undoubtedly the incredible strength and growth in Linux desktop/laptop/cell
phone expansion that has made this possible (probably).

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTI5MzU

Jim


From marklbreen at gmail.com  Wed Feb  6 02:48:00 2013
From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 08:48:00 +0000
Subject: [dba-Tech] Now that google apps is not free what do we do for
	cloudemail
In-Reply-To: <C28CE98A-2F89-4047-8446-1679A0D6CDEC@phulse.com>
References: <CAGXtTCiWD4PE0VywM6AT67CXhCyO_KBmHSawPvMVLT=_KGGjoQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<D17B25CDF0C64F9EADD40C8D0DF5F5CA@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<CAGXtTCgQCETn8gfnCA+KhJeT+dTwftnE_bGYZeeXvAYwNQneaA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAGXtTChQ98ydyhyDZW-vDzN6MujmMZr+0=xhAA2TrtLVwaP5yg@mail.gmail.com>
	<C28CE98A-2F89-4047-8446-1679A0D6CDEC@phulse.com>
Message-ID: <CAGXtTCiFfNKcbOajH=5w2eK-MFe88UDY1DM7R_hQL-FrELrJtA@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Hans,

I sent you a reply from my main email account, just noting here in case it
went to spam or you did not catch it.

Thanks

Mark



On 31 January 2013 09:23, Hans-Christian Andersen
<hans.andersen at phulse.com>wrote:

> Hi Mark,
>
> If you clients are willing to pay a little something, then I'd be happy to
> set up a VPS with Zimbra being hosted and maintain it. I was going to set
> up a VPS anyways for my own reasons, but thought I would ask your opinion
> anyhow.
>
> - Hans
>
>
> On 2013-01-31, at 1:12 AM, Mark Breen <marklbreen at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hello All,
> >
> > Just to share my thought process with you.
> >
> > As I mentioned, I am using gmail for domains for most clients since Sept
> > 2006.
> >
> > As I have not seen a better, easier way of hosting email in the cloud
> with
> > close to zero admin, I think I must propose to customers to pay google
> the
> > money for each account.  It is US$50 per user per year.  If a company
> > cannot afford  / justify that for an employee, then it has bigger
> problems
> > than just their email.
> >
> > I love the look of Zimbra, but I have limited time, so I guess the easy
> > route for me is simply use the Google Apps product.
> >
> > Anyone else in the same boat ?  What are you going to do do?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 31 January 2013 09:08, Mark Breen <marklbreen at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Hello Jim,
> >>
> >> You mention Google Mail is still free.
> >>
> >> Are you referring to gmail single user or do you mean Gmail for domains.
> >>
> >> AFAICS, Gmail for domains (google Apps) is no longer free, even for 1
> >> user.  Am I missing something ?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 17 January 2013 18:20, Jim Lawrence <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Google mail is still free and if you need a free office product try
> Libra
> >>> Office (It is OSS so there are not limits or licensing issues) and even
> >>> Microsoft has 25 GB of free Cloud space for a shared file directory and
> >>> then
> >>> there is dropbox with 10-20GB available.
> >>>
> >>> The tools are all there just have to do some creative thinking.
> >>>
> >>> If you want to stretch further, you can hack some Linux box together
> and
> >>> you
> >>> can have unlimited remote sessions through your remote desktop
> (limited of
> >>> course by resources). You can add in Apache and have remote access from
> >>> anywhere through the WebServer. Then there is OpenVPN...
> >>>
> >>> Even with Microsoft, just put a shared folder on a client's server and
> set
> >>> it up so it can be accessed from anywhere in the network and externally
> >>> though Microsoft's Remote desktop but you are only allows two remote
> >>> sessions, for free. There are many other options that can save your
> client
> >>> thousands.
> >>>
> >>> Jim
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> >>> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Breen
> >>> Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 9:20 AM
> >>> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> >>> Subject: [dba-Tech] Now that google apps is not free what do we do for
> >>> cloudemail
> >>>
> >>> Hello All,
> >>>
> >>> Since Sept 2006 I have been using Google Apps for company based email
> for
> >>> my clients.
> >>>
> >>> As you may know, as of Dec 6th 2012, google no longer offer this
> service
> >>> for free.  It must now be paid for at a rate of US$50 Per user per
> year.
> >>> For a small company 5 - 10 employees, this is not expensive, but over 5
> >>> years, it still amounts to 1250 - 2500.
> >>>
> >>> In my opinion, it is still good value for what you get, but I wonder
> what
> >>> you use if you want to have company based *cloud *email for free.
> >>>
> >>> Any recommendations ?
> >>>
> >>> Mark
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> dba-Tech mailing list
> >>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> dba-Tech mailing list
> >>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > dba-Tech mailing list
> > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>

From gustav at cactus.dk  Wed Feb  6 06:21:43 2013
From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 13:21:43 +0100
Subject: [dba-Tech] Web RTC built in
Message-ID: <015001ce0464$86560c70$93022550$@cactus.dk>

Hi Jim

RTC built in? Every computer today has it. But it was missing on the
original IBM PC (XT). If you didn't want to adjust the clock from 1980-01-01
every time you turned on the PC, you had to obtain and install a third-party
option board equipped with this Real Time Clock.

/gustav

-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Jim Lawrence
Sendt: 5. februar 2013 17:47
Til: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Emne: [dba-Tech] Web RTC built in

FireFox and Chrome have both added new features to their browsers that will
allow direct audio and video calling without third party applications or
plug-in. The capabilities is now build right in the browsers.

Along with the article is a small chunk of code showing how this can be
implemented via web page and JavaScript.

https://hacks.mozilla.org/2013/02/hello-chrome-its-firefox-calling/

I understand the both Opera and Safari have similar projects in the works
but as always whether IE will follow the W3C protocol communications
standards or go it alone is anyone's guess. Microsoft does have a large
investment in Skype so this may predetermine their next move.

Jim 



From tinanfields at torchlake.com  Wed Feb  6 07:04:55 2013
From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields)
Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2013 08:04:55 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] JavaScript is tragically important: One developer's
 journey from C# to JavaScript
In-Reply-To: <0DE505E48ED84642875568C6626C85B5@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <1360057979.416930223@f7.mail.ru><3BC4C8C6-115F-4DFD-9EB5-31518A7DF8D0@phulse.com><51112669.8070601@earthlink.net><EA11435D7CD34808943941B51E455B85@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<B8E3073FCAD944A8886AEF1FE8B3C9E0@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<0DE505E48ED84642875568C6626C85B5@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <511254F7.5060707@torchlake.com>

Jim,

I'm thanking you and whoever else it was who spoke about Node.js. I'm 
running through some tutorial classes on it this week, and beginning to 
see how I will use it.  Thank you.

Until now, I pretty much ignored JavaScript, seeing it as less than 
other "real" languages.  So, thanks for the wake up call.

T

Tina Norris Fields
tinanfields at torchlake.com
231-322-2787

On 2/6/2013 1:34 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote:
> Hi All:
>
> Everyone hates JavaScript as it doesn't behave like a real language should.
> Its rules are loose to say the least; if you have learned to speak/write the
> English language with all its inconsistencies, you can learn JavaScript. ;-)
>
> Quote: "...The ubiquitous nature of JavaScript means that the pain of
> framework and platform deployment is a thing of the past. The browser is the
> platform, the Internet is the deployment model. Thanks to the browser
> manufacturers there are no frameworks to deploy, no installers to execute,
> no administrator permissions issues, and virtually no versioning issues.
> Regardless of your personal feelings about JavaScript it is undoubtedly the
> single most important computer language in the world today...
>
> ...The hands-down winner is JavaScript. I believe that, in the current state
> of technology learning, JavaScript is the best investment you can make for
> your career. In fact, I believe that, in the near future, JavaScript will be
> an essential tool in virtually every developer's toolbox..."
>
> http://www.simple-talk.com/opinion/opinion-pieces/a-sudden-move-one-develope
> r%E2%80%99s-journey-from-c-to-javascript/
>
> So get on the band-wagon boys and girls.
>
> Jim
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>


From gustav at cactus.dk  Wed Feb  6 07:23:13 2013
From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 14:23:13 +0100
Subject: [dba-Tech]
	=?iso-8859-1?q?=22Depend_on_me=2C_and_I=27ll_set_you_f?=
	=?iso-8859-1?q?ree!=22?=
Message-ID: <015b01ce046d$1d814300$5883c900$@cactus.dk>

Hi Stuart and Peter

That is not fully correct.

With Visual Studio and the Entity Framework you can, in fact, code (write?)
your classes and methods and - when finished - it will create a database
schema that fits.
I have only played with it, but it is fun and quite amazing what it can do.
If you make changes, the framework adjusts the schema to fit.

That said, I cannot imagine how you can test anything without having the
database.

Read about Code First here:
http://visualstudiomagazine.com/articles/2011/05/01/pfint_ef-code-first.aspx

/gustav

-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Peter Brawley
Sendt: 5. februar 2013 23:45
Til: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Emne: Re: [dba-Tech] ?Depend on me, and I?ll set you free!?

On 2013-02-05 3:21 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote:
> Does he have it right?
>
> What does he mean by  "written".  Is that  "documented" or "coded"?

I assumed documented and they survived analytic walkthrough, 'cuz 'coded'
would make no sense without a data backend.

PB

-----

>
> He says "use cases and business rules written and tested"   To test, you
need code.
> That means he is defining "written" as "coded", not "documented"..
>
> Use cases and business rules documented?   Yes - that's a fundamental part
of systems
> design.
>
> Coded and tested? No way before you have the data model! 



From accessd at shaw.ca  Wed Feb  6 09:03:34 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 07:03:34 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Web RTC built in
In-Reply-To: <015001ce0464$86560c70$93022550$@cactus.dk>
References: <015001ce0464$86560c70$93022550$@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <1FC27D6FE9594FFDB412CC61AD9248F8@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Gustav:

True but to having full audio and video as well as chat at your finger tips
is quite an advancement. I am aware that it has been around for a while but
just in chat mode...built a chat for a couple of clients but this is to the
next level, with no third party (paid for) apps.   

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 4:22 AM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Web RTC built in

Hi Jim

RTC built in? Every computer today has it. But it was missing on the
original IBM PC (XT). If you didn't want to adjust the clock from 1980-01-01
every time you turned on the PC, you had to obtain and install a third-party
option board equipped with this Real Time Clock.

/gustav

-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Jim Lawrence
Sendt: 5. februar 2013 17:47
Til: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Emne: [dba-Tech] Web RTC built in

FireFox and Chrome have both added new features to their browsers that will
allow direct audio and video calling without third party applications or
plug-in. The capabilities is now build right in the browsers.

Along with the article is a small chunk of code showing how this can be
implemented via web page and JavaScript.

https://hacks.mozilla.org/2013/02/hello-chrome-its-firefox-calling/

I understand the both Opera and Safari have similar projects in the works
but as always whether IE will follow the W3C protocol communications
standards or go it alone is anyone's guess. Microsoft does have a large
investment in Skype so this may predetermine their next move.

Jim 


_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From fuller.artful at gmail.com  Wed Feb  6 09:19:26 2013
From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 10:19:26 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] Access Versions
Message-ID: <CAEPJO1jFOVVo1EdBeTUnEVCAsTpYoY+Fga1Aw9kUCF==8pTegw@mail.gmail.com>

I have a new client with a db originally built with Access 2010, which I do
not have a license for. I am still on Version 2007. They sent me the db,
which I successfully opened and have been working on. My question is this:
is working on it with 2007 going to bite me in some unexpected day down the
road?

-- 
Arthur

From accessd at shaw.ca  Wed Feb  6 09:31:38 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 07:31:38 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] JavaScript is tragically important: One developer's
	journey from C# to JavaScript
In-Reply-To: <511254F7.5060707@torchlake.com>
References: <1360057979.416930223@f7.mail.ru><3BC4C8C6-115F-4DFD-9EB5-31518A7DF8D0@phulse.com><51112669.8070601@earthlink.net><EA11435D7CD34808943941B51E455B85@creativesystemdesigns.com><B8E3073FCAD944A8886AEF1FE8B3C9E0@creativesystemdesigns.com><0DE505E48ED84642875568C6626C85B5@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<511254F7.5060707@torchlake.com>
Message-ID: <8929BEAE07054CAEA69B08090F80625C@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Tina:

Don't thank me yet. ;-)

Jim


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tina Norris
Fields
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 5:05 AM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] JavaScript is tragically important: One developer's
journey from C# to JavaScript

Jim,

I'm thanking you and whoever else it was who spoke about Node.js. I'm 
running through some tutorial classes on it this week, and beginning to 
see how I will use it.  Thank you.

Until now, I pretty much ignored JavaScript, seeing it as less than 
other "real" languages.  So, thanks for the wake up call.

T

Tina Norris Fields
tinanfields at torchlake.com
231-322-2787

On 2/6/2013 1:34 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote:
> Hi All:
>
> Everyone hates JavaScript as it doesn't behave like a real language
should.
> Its rules are loose to say the least; if you have learned to speak/write
the
> English language with all its inconsistencies, you can learn JavaScript.
;-)
>
> Quote: "...The ubiquitous nature of JavaScript means that the pain of
> framework and platform deployment is a thing of the past. The browser is
the
> platform, the Internet is the deployment model. Thanks to the browser
> manufacturers there are no frameworks to deploy, no installers to execute,
> no administrator permissions issues, and virtually no versioning issues.
> Regardless of your personal feelings about JavaScript it is undoubtedly
the
> single most important computer language in the world today...
>
> ...The hands-down winner is JavaScript. I believe that, in the current
state
> of technology learning, JavaScript is the best investment you can make for
> your career. In fact, I believe that, in the near future, JavaScript will
be
> an essential tool in virtually every developer's toolbox..."
>
>
http://www.simple-talk.com/opinion/opinion-pieces/a-sudden-move-one-develope
> r%E2%80%99s-journey-from-c-to-javascript/
>
> So get on the band-wagon boys and girls.
>
> Jim
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From eptept at gmail.com  Wed Feb  6 10:00:31 2013
From: eptept at gmail.com (Ed Tesiny)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 11:00:31 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] Access Versions
In-Reply-To: <CAEPJO1jFOVVo1EdBeTUnEVCAsTpYoY+Fga1Aw9kUCF==8pTegw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEPJO1jFOVVo1EdBeTUnEVCAsTpYoY+Fga1Aw9kUCF==8pTegw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEkqQpUkMvRLZb=-oC+uiyLfOyhWxmpa09kBiJEx9W+H2gW8XQ@mail.gmail.com>

Arthur,
The link below may be helpful
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc179181(v=office.14).aspx

On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 10:19 AM, Arthur Fuller <fuller.artful at gmail.com>wrote:

> I have a new client with a db originally built with Access 2010, which I do
> not have a license for. I am still on Version 2007. They sent me the db,
> which I successfully opened and have been working on. My question is this:
> is working on it with 2007 going to bite me in some unexpected day down the
> road?
>
> --
> Arthur
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>

From gustav at cactus.dk  Wed Feb  6 10:40:10 2013
From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 17:40:10 +0100
Subject: [dba-Tech] Web RTC built in
Message-ID: <01da01ce0488$a1871150$e49533f0$@cactus.dk>

Hi Jim

Sorry, I was joking ... it was just that RTC. 
Am I really the only one remembering the original IBM PC XT and its ISA
add-in boards for just about anything: RAM, floppy controller, harddisk
controller (MFM), RTC, I/O, and graphics (monochrome or CGA)?

/gustav

-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Jim Lawrence
Sendt: 6. februar 2013 16:04
Til: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Emne: Re: [dba-Tech] Web RTC built in

Hi Gustav:

True but to having full audio and video as well as chat at your finger tips
is quite an advancement. I am aware that it has been around for a while but
just in chat mode...built a chat for a couple of clients but this is to the
next level, with no third party (paid for) apps.   

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 4:22 AM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Web RTC built in

Hi Jim

RTC built in? Every computer today has it. But it was missing on the
original IBM PC (XT). If you didn't want to adjust the clock from 1980-01-01
every time you turned on the PC, you had to obtain and install a third-party
option board equipped with this Real Time Clock.

/gustav

-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Jim Lawrence
Sendt: 5. februar 2013 17:47
Til: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Emne: [dba-Tech] Web RTC built in

FireFox and Chrome have both added new features to their browsers that will
allow direct audio and video calling without third party applications or
plug-in. The capabilities is now build right in the browsers.

Along with the article is a small chunk of code showing how this can be
implemented via web page and JavaScript.

https://hacks.mozilla.org/2013/02/hello-chrome-its-firefox-calling/

I understand the both Opera and Safari have similar projects in the works
but as always whether IE will follow the W3C protocol communications
standards or go it alone is anyone's guess. Microsoft does have a large
investment in Skype so this may predetermine their next move.

Jim 



From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Wed Feb  6 11:15:25 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2013 21:15:25 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech]
 =?utf-8?q?=22Depend_on_me=2C_and_I=27ll_set_you_free!?=
 =?utf-8?q?=22?=
In-Reply-To: <68E7489D85DC4228BDBCAD61BF436108@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <1360057979.416930223@f7.mail.ru>
	<68E7489D85DC4228BDBCAD61BF436108@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <1360170925.795888531@f310.mail.ru>

 Hi Jim --

Glad you liked it.
I must note I didn't expect such an active reaction on that posting.
I personally liked most of all the beer drinking/tasting experience sharing of dba-Tech members and Stuart's note on "sex in canoe" followed by a wonderful Tina's real-life story :)

Thank you.

-- Shamil

???????,  5 ??????? 2013, 9:12 -08:00 ?? "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca>:
>Hi Shamil:
>
>Now that is a good article. 
>
>Jim
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From:  dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov
>Shamil
>Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 1:53 AM
>To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>Subject: [dba-Tech] ?Depend on me, and I?ll set you free!?
>
>?Hi All --
>
>It's funny I've just planned to try to implement one experimental project
>using "No DB" (NoSQL) approach - and here I have got an interesting "rant
>article" arrived :)
>
>http://blog.8thlight.com/uncle-bob/2012/05/15/NODB.html
>
>Thank you.
>
>-- Shamil?
>_______________________________________________
>dba-Tech mailing list
>dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>Website:  http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>dba-Tech mailing list
>dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>Website:  http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Wed Feb  6 11:19:09 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2013 21:19:09 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech]
 =?utf-8?q?=22Depend_on_me=2C_and_I=27ll_set_you_free!?=
 =?utf-8?q?=22?=
In-Reply-To: <007001ce0397$0b61b1e0$222515a0$@cactus.dk>
References: <007001ce0397$0b61b1e0$222515a0$@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <1360171149.615158256@f310.mail.ru>

 Hi Gustav --

<<<
It would be more interesting to learn what Shamil is doing with No SQL ...
>>>
Nothing yet - just considering to try Amazon ?DynamoDB ( http://aws.amazon.com/dynamodb/ ) for one test application, which may grow in a commercial one if the tests will succeed and "stars will arrange properly".

Thank you.

-- Shamil

???????,  5 ??????? 2013, 12:50 +01:00 ?? "Gustav Brock" <gustav at cactus.dk>:
>Hi Stuart
>
>Yes, never heard of this "award winning author" probably for a reason.
>It sounds like he didn't understand data and relations and never intended to
>do - which is why he was substituted back then.
>
>Of course, he is right that the data is not the application, but whos says
>so?
>
>It would be more interesting to learn what Shamil is doing with No SQL ...
>
>/gustav
>
>PS: I do remember my first meeting with American beer back in the 80's. It
>was a Miller Light. It was a .. eh, miss words, eh .. surprise. I believe it
>has changed a lot since then.
<<< skipped >>>
>

From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Wed Feb  6 11:26:45 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2013 21:26:45 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech]
 =?utf-8?b?4oCcRGVwZW5kIG9uIG1lLCBhbmQgSeKAmWxsIHNldCB5?=
 =?utf-8?b?b3UgZnJlZSHigJ0=?=
In-Reply-To: <008c01ce0418$3433a890$9c9af9b0$@mattysconsulting.com>
References: <1360057979.416930223@f7.mail.ru>
	<008c01ce0418$3433a890$9c9af9b0$@mattysconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <1360171605.764404311@f330.mail.ru>

 Hi Michael --

No, I do not currently plan to use "No DB" approach to analyze 'Big Data' - but I'd definitely try to avoid using SQL Server in the case of projects as JC has if we assume such projects belong to low end of 'Big Data'-type of environments/projects.

Thank you.

-- Shamil

???????,  5 ??????? 2013, 22:15 -05:00 ?? "Michael Mattys" <michael at mattysconsulting.com>:
>Shamil,
>
>Is your purpose in planning to use "No DB" to analyze 'Big Data?'
>
>Michael R Mattys
>Mattys Consulting, LLC
>www.mattysconsulting.com
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From:  dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil
>Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 4:53 AM
>To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>Subject: [dba-Tech] ?Depend on me, and I?ll set you free!?
>
>?Hi All --
>
>It's funny I've just planned to try to implement one experimental project using "No DB" (NoSQL) approach - and here I have got an interesting "rant article" arrived :)
>
>http://blog.8thlight.com/uncle-bob/2012/05/15/NODB.html
>
>Thank you.
>
>-- Shamil 
>


From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Wed Feb  6 11:30:39 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2013 21:30:39 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech]
 =?utf-8?q?=22Depend_on_me=2C_and_I=27ll_set_you_free!?=
 =?utf-8?q?=22?=
In-Reply-To: <015b01ce046d$1d814300$5883c900$@cactus.dk>
References: <015b01ce046d$1d814300$5883c900$@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <1360171839.595398702@f327.mail.ru>

 Hi Gustav --

<<<
That said, I cannot imagine how you can test anything 
without having the?database.
>>>
Are you kidding again? :)

Of course you cannot test *everything* without having the database if your application uses database but I'd note that testing with database belongs to *integration* testing: as for unit testing and ?business layer/business use cases testing - you don't need to have database to test all that even if you application in test does use database back-end.

Thank you.

-- Shamil

?????,  6 ??????? 2013, 14:23 +01:00 ?? "Gustav Brock" <gustav at cactus.dk>:
>Hi Stuart and Peter
>
>That is not fully correct.
>
>With Visual Studio and the Entity Framework you can, in fact, code (write?)
>your classes and methods and - when finished - it will create a database
>schema that fits.
>I have only played with it, but it is fun and quite amazing what it can do.
>If you make changes, the framework adjusts the schema to fit.
>
>That said, I cannot imagine how you can test anything without having the
>database.
>
>Read about Code First here:
>http://visualstudiomagazine.com/articles/2011/05/01/pfint_ef-code-first.aspx
>
>/gustav
<<< skipped >>>
>

From accessd at shaw.ca  Wed Feb  6 12:48:48 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 10:48:48 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Web RTC built in
In-Reply-To: <01da01ce0488$a1871150$e49533f0$@cactus.dk>
References: <01da01ce0488$a1871150$e49533f0$@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <8107248FF8E449BEAB1A5DB5684DD6EA@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Gustav:

OMG you remember those things... Sold IBMs for a while at $8,000 to $10,000
a piece, two floppy drives, the IBM boot disk, a box of 10 floppy disks
(cost $100 per box, 360K per floppy) and included half a days training. The
government systems came with a version of DbaseII, direct from Aston Tate.
Made a 15 percent margin. Also most of the government machines needed an
Attachmate above board ISA card (about $1000.00) so the PC could also work
as a dumb terminal. 

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 8:40 AM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Web RTC built in

Hi Jim

Sorry, I was joking ... it was just that RTC. 
Am I really the only one remembering the original IBM PC XT and its ISA
add-in boards for just about anything: RAM, floppy controller, harddisk
controller (MFM), RTC, I/O, and graphics (monochrome or CGA)?

/gustav

-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Jim Lawrence
Sendt: 6. februar 2013 16:04
Til: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Emne: Re: [dba-Tech] Web RTC built in

Hi Gustav:

True but to having full audio and video as well as chat at your finger tips
is quite an advancement. I am aware that it has been around for a while but
just in chat mode...built a chat for a couple of clients but this is to the
next level, with no third party (paid for) apps.   

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 4:22 AM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Web RTC built in

Hi Jim

RTC built in? Every computer today has it. But it was missing on the
original IBM PC (XT). If you didn't want to adjust the clock from 1980-01-01
every time you turned on the PC, you had to obtain and install a third-party
option board equipped with this Real Time Clock.

/gustav

-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Jim Lawrence
Sendt: 5. februar 2013 17:47
Til: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Emne: [dba-Tech] Web RTC built in

FireFox and Chrome have both added new features to their browsers that will
allow direct audio and video calling without third party applications or
plug-in. The capabilities is now build right in the browsers.

Along with the article is a small chunk of code showing how this can be
implemented via web page and JavaScript.

https://hacks.mozilla.org/2013/02/hello-chrome-its-firefox-calling/

I understand the both Opera and Safari have similar projects in the works
but as always whether IE will follow the W3C protocol communications
standards or go it alone is anyone's guess. Microsoft does have a large
investment in Skype so this may predetermine their next move.

Jim 


_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Wed Feb  6 13:19:16 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2013 23:19:16 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech] =?utf-8?q?Looking_for_mobile-ready_DotNetNuke_Web_Site?=
 =?utf-8?q?_Design/Skin?=
Message-ID: <1360178356.819481119@f215.mail.ru>

 Hi All --

I'm looking for a mobile ready DotNetNuke Web site design/skin.
So far the one I liked most of all s the following:

http://demo5.dnngo.net/10393/en-us/home.aspx

Tested with WinPhone 7.5, Android 4, iPad 4.

If you have iPhone 5 and/or WinRT tablet could you please test the above site??

Do you have samples of mobile ready web sites you like?
If yes, could you please share their links here? (the sites do not need to be DotNetNuke ones.)

Thank you.

-- Shamil?

From hkotsch at arcor.de  Wed Feb  6 13:23:15 2013
From: hkotsch at arcor.de (Helmut Kotsch)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 20:23:15 +0100
Subject: [dba-Tech] Web RTC built in
In-Reply-To: <8107248FF8E449BEAB1A5DB5684DD6EA@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <JIECLJNJOMBJFEDLONCBIECJJPAA.hkotsch@arcor.de>


I not only remember them but have a complete set of the IBM model 5150 in my
basement. It is hardly used and by this in mint condition. We got it when I
went into retirement in 1992. It has been used in our demo center for the
employees and I paid 50 $ for the whole enchilada. One of these days I will
have to go down and test whether it still works or if some capacitors have
given up. I actually bought my first one of these in 1981 while in the US.
In 1982/3 we have been building our own extension cards with 512 kB of
memory which was a memory size the big /360 systems did have in the late
sixties. Everybody shook their heads.

Helmut


-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]Im Auftrag von Jim
Lawrence
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 6. Februar 2013 19:49
An: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Betreff: Re: [dba-Tech] Web RTC built in


Hi Gustav:

OMG you remember those things... Sold IBMs for a while at $8,000 to $10,000
a piece, two floppy drives, the IBM boot disk, a box of 10 floppy disks
(cost $100 per box, 360K per floppy) and included half a days training. The
government systems came with a version of DbaseII, direct from Aston Tate.
Made a 15 percent margin. Also most of the government machines needed an
Attachmate above board ISA card (about $1000.00) so the PC could also work
as a dumb terminal.

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 8:40 AM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Web RTC built in

Hi Jim

Sorry, I was joking ... it was just that RTC.
Am I really the only one remembering the original IBM PC XT and its ISA
add-in boards for just about anything: RAM, floppy controller, harddisk
controller (MFM), RTC, I/O, and graphics (monochrome or CGA)?

/gustav

-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Jim Lawrence
Sendt: 6. februar 2013 16:04
Til: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Emne: Re: [dba-Tech] Web RTC built in

Hi Gustav:

True but to having full audio and video as well as chat at your finger tips
is quite an advancement. I am aware that it has been around for a while but
just in chat mode...built a chat for a couple of clients but this is to the
next level, with no third party (paid for) apps.

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 4:22 AM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Web RTC built in

Hi Jim

RTC built in? Every computer today has it. But it was missing on the
original IBM PC (XT). If you didn't want to adjust the clock from 1980-01-01
every time you turned on the PC, you had to obtain and install a third-party
option board equipped with this Real Time Clock.

/gustav

-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Jim Lawrence
Sendt: 5. februar 2013 17:47
Til: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Emne: [dba-Tech] Web RTC built in

FireFox and Chrome have both added new features to their browsers that will
allow direct audio and video calling without third party applications or
plug-in. The capabilities is now build right in the browsers.

Along with the article is a small chunk of code showing how this can be
implemented via web page and JavaScript.

https://hacks.mozilla.org/2013/02/hello-chrome-its-firefox-calling/

I understand the both Opera and Safari have similar projects in the works
but as always whether IE will follow the W3C protocol communications
standards or go it alone is anyone's guess. Microsoft does have a large
investment in Skype so this may predetermine their next move.

Jim


_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Wed Feb  6 14:48:25 2013
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2013 06:48:25 +1000
Subject: [dba-Tech] Web RTC built in
In-Reply-To: <015001ce0464$86560c70$93022550$@cactus.dk>
References: <015001ce0464$86560c70$93022550$@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <5112C199.15209.23E50643@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

But this is WebRTC.   That must mean that when you boot up, your computer asks NIST 
what the time is.

:-)
-- 
Stuart

On 6 Feb 2013 at 13:21, Gustav Brock wrote:

> Hi Jim
> 
> RTC built in? Every computer today has it. But it was missing on the
> original IBM PC (XT). If you didn't want to adjust the clock from 1980-01-01
> every time you turned on the PC, you had to obtain and install a third-party
> option board equipped with this Real Time Clock.
> 
> /gustav
> 
> -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
> Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Jim Lawrence
> Sendt: 5. februar 2013 17:47
> Til: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
> Emne: [dba-Tech] Web RTC built in
> 
> FireFox and Chrome have both added new features to their browsers that will
> allow direct audio and video calling without third party applications or
> plug-in. The capabilities is now build right in the browsers.
> 
> Along with the article is a small chunk of code showing how this can be
> implemented via web page and JavaScript.
> 
> https://hacks.mozilla.org/2013/02/hello-chrome-its-firefox-calling/
> 
> I understand the both Opera and Safari have similar projects in the works
> but as always whether IE will follow the W3C protocol communications
> standards or go it alone is anyone's guess. Microsoft does have a large
> investment in Skype so this may predetermine their next move.
> 
> Jim 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 




From hkotsch at arcor.de  Wed Feb  6 14:52:02 2013
From: hkotsch at arcor.de (Helmut Kotsch)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 21:52:02 +0100
Subject: [dba-Tech] Web RTC built in
In-Reply-To: <5112C199.15209.23E50643@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
Message-ID: <JIECLJNJOMBJFEDLONCBMECKJPAA.hkotsch@arcor.de>


No, I think the card had a battery powered clock.

Helmut

-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]Im Auftrag von Stuart
McLachlan
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 6. Februar 2013 21:48
An: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Betreff: Re: [dba-Tech] Web RTC built in


But this is WebRTC.   That must mean that when you boot up, your computer
asks NIST
what the time is.

:-)
--
Stuart

On 6 Feb 2013 at 13:21, Gustav Brock wrote:

> Hi Jim
>
> RTC built in? Every computer today has it. But it was missing on the
> original IBM PC (XT). If you didn't want to adjust the clock from
1980-01-01
> every time you turned on the PC, you had to obtain and install a
third-party
> option board equipped with this Real Time Clock.
>
> /gustav
>
> -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
> Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Jim Lawrence
> Sendt: 5. februar 2013 17:47
> Til: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
> Emne: [dba-Tech] Web RTC built in
>
> FireFox and Chrome have both added new features to their browsers that
will
> allow direct audio and video calling without third party applications or
> plug-in. The capabilities is now build right in the browsers.
>
> Along with the article is a small chunk of code showing how this can be
> implemented via web page and JavaScript.
>
> https://hacks.mozilla.org/2013/02/hello-chrome-its-firefox-calling/
>
> I understand the both Opera and Safari have similar projects in the works
> but as always whether IE will follow the W3C protocol communications
> standards or go it alone is anyone's guess. Microsoft does have a large
> investment in Skype so this may predetermine their next move.
>
> Jim
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>



_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Wed Feb  6 14:57:16 2013
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2013 06:57:16 +1000
Subject: [dba-Tech] Access Versions
In-Reply-To: <CAEPJO1jFOVVo1EdBeTUnEVCAsTpYoY+Fga1Aw9kUCF==8pTegw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEPJO1jFOVVo1EdBeTUnEVCAsTpYoY+Fga1Aw9kUCF==8pTegw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5112C3AC.15603.23ED1E07@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

As long as you can open it in 2007, you should be OK.  

Designing is the lowest version in a mixed environment is generally the best solution.

Access 2010 can always open something written in 2007.  The reverse is NOT the case.   
See  http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/office/cc907897.aspx


On 6 Feb 2013 at 10:19, Arthur Fuller wrote:

> I have a new client with a db originally built with Access 2010, which I do
> not have a license for. I am still on Version 2007. They sent me the db,
> which I successfully opened and have been working on. My question is this:
> is working on it with 2007 going to bite me in some unexpected day down the
> road?
> 
> -- 
> Arthur
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 



From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Wed Feb  6 14:58:36 2013
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2013 06:58:36 +1000
Subject: [dba-Tech] Web RTC built in
In-Reply-To: <JIECLJNJOMBJFEDLONCBMECKJPAA.hkotsch@arcor.de>
References: <5112C199.15209.23E50643@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>,
	<JIECLJNJOMBJFEDLONCBMECKJPAA.hkotsch@arcor.de>
Message-ID: <5112C3FC.10858.23EE58C6@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

I think you are missing the joke :-)

On 6 Feb 2013 at 21:52, Helmut Kotsch wrote:

> 
> No, I think the card had a battery powered clock.
> 
> Helmut
> 
> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]Im Auftrag von Stuart
> McLachlan
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 6. Februar 2013 21:48
> An: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Betreff: Re: [dba-Tech] Web RTC built in
> 
> 
> But this is WebRTC.   That must mean that when you boot up, your computer
> asks NIST
> what the time is.
> 
> :-)
> --
> Stuart
> 
> On 6 Feb 2013 at 13:21, Gustav Brock wrote:
> 
> > Hi Jim
> >
> > RTC built in? Every computer today has it. But it was missing on the
> > original IBM PC (XT). If you didn't want to adjust the clock from
> 1980-01-01
> > every time you turned on the PC, you had to obtain and install a
> third-party
> > option board equipped with this Real Time Clock.
> >
> > /gustav
> >
> > -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
> > Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Jim Lawrence
> > Sendt: 5. februar 2013 17:47
> > Til: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
> > Emne: [dba-Tech] Web RTC built in
> >
> > FireFox and Chrome have both added new features to their browsers that
> will
> > allow direct audio and video calling without third party applications or
> > plug-in. The capabilities is now build right in the browsers.
> >
> > Along with the article is a small chunk of code showing how this can be
> > implemented via web page and JavaScript.
> >
> > https://hacks.mozilla.org/2013/02/hello-chrome-its-firefox-calling/
> >
> > I understand the both Opera and Safari have similar projects in the works
> > but as always whether IE will follow the W3C protocol communications
> > standards or go it alone is anyone's guess. Microsoft does have a large
> > investment in Skype so this may predetermine their next move.
> >
> > Jim
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > dba-Tech mailing list
> > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 




From Gustav at cactus.dk  Wed Feb  6 15:13:56 2013
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2013 22:13:56 +0100
Subject: [dba-Tech] "Depend on me, and I'll set you free!"
Message-ID: <s112d5bd.072@cactus.dk>

Hi Shamil

No I was not kidding. What I meant was "testing in full" which, I guess, is similar to "testing including integration testing".

/gustav

>>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 06-02-13 18:30 >>>
 Hi Gustav --

<<<
That said, I cannot imagine how you can test anything 
without having the*database.
>>>
Are you kidding again? :)

Of course you cannot test *everything* without having the database if your application uses database but I'd note that testing with database belongs to *integration* testing: as for unit testing and *business layer/business use cases testing - you don't need to have database to test all that even if you application in test does use database back-end.

Thank you.

-- Shamil

?????,  6 ??????? 2013, 14:23 +01:00 ?? "Gustav Brock" <gustav at cactus.dk>:
>Hi Stuart and Peter
>
>That is not fully correct.
>
>With Visual Studio and the Entity Framework you can, in fact, code (write?)
>your classes and methods and - when finished - it will create a database
>schema that fits.
>I have only played with it, but it is fun and quite amazing what it can do.
>If you make changes, the framework adjusts the schema to fit.
>
>That said, I cannot imagine how you can test anything without having the
>database.
>
>Read about Code First here:
>http://visualstudiomagazine.com/articles/2011/05/01/pfint_ef-code-first.aspx
>
>/gustav


From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Wed Feb  6 15:33:15 2013
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2013 07:33:15 +1000
Subject: [dba-Tech] Relational v NoSQL
In-Reply-To: <s112d5bd.072@cactus.dk>
References: <s112d5bd.072@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <5112CC1B.31695.240E10B0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

What does it really mean?  This helps clarify some fundamentals. 

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/02/06/relational_versus_no_sql_paradox/

-- 
Stuart

From accessd at shaw.ca  Wed Feb  6 22:12:27 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 20:12:27 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Is Google docs gone?
In-Reply-To: <8107248FF8E449BEAB1A5DB5684DD6EA@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <01da01ce0488$a1871150$e49533f0$@cactus.dk>
	<8107248FF8E449BEAB1A5DB5684DD6EA@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <9A9480B2725D4344AC0AB1DBF2FC3A3D@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi All:

Before Google decided to make its Docs package pay-as-you-go, the company
that owned it made the original source OSS. It was subsequently completely
rewritten.

So now you can still do collaborative notes with the Open Source version and
export the contents to a variety of formats. For viewing and testing you can
check out the demo at Mozilla called MoPad. It now runs on Node.js:

https://etherpad.mozilla.org/

If you want to use this EtherPad application at your office, home or
share-it on the web, you can download it install it and run it across you
web sites/internally or externally and even run it in an iFrame on intranet
(internet) your web pages...and as you would expect it is fast...very very
fast.

http://etherpad.org/

It will also give you a good reason to have Node.js install on your Linux
server.

Aside: If you want to get started it will take a few steps to install but
nothing too challenging. If stumped, don't know where to start or just being
cautious during the installation, drop a post the DBA-Tech.  

Jim


From accessd at shaw.ca  Wed Feb  6 22:17:45 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 20:17:45 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Looking for mobile-ready DotNetNuke Web Site
	Design/Skin
In-Reply-To: <1360178356.819481119@f215.mail.ru>
References: <1360178356.819481119@f215.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <F725FC1E2D6B4AD0938619FE4EDD0FEC@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Shamil:

It looks like a nice modern skin. Now it all depends on the features you
want to install. (I would never presume on your graphic collection...)

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov
Shamil
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 11:19 AM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: [dba-Tech] Looking for mobile-ready DotNetNuke Web Site Design/Skin

 Hi All --

I'm looking for a mobile ready DotNetNuke Web site design/skin.
So far the one I liked most of all s the following:

http://demo5.dnngo.net/10393/en-us/home.aspx

Tested with WinPhone 7.5, Android 4, iPad 4.

If you have iPhone 5 and/or WinRT tablet could you please test the above
site??

Do you have samples of mobile ready web sites you like?
If yes, could you please share their links here? (the sites do not need to
be DotNetNuke ones.)

Thank you.

-- Shamil?
_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From accessd at shaw.ca  Wed Feb  6 22:28:26 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 20:28:26 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Web RTC built in
In-Reply-To: <JIECLJNJOMBJFEDLONCBIECJJPAA.hkotsch@arcor.de>
References: <8107248FF8E449BEAB1A5DB5684DD6EA@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<JIECLJNJOMBJFEDLONCBIECJJPAA.hkotsch@arcor.de>
Message-ID: <10947D06E29D49838C6C7D0DE94A9BF6@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Prices were ridicules in the early days of the PC. 

Now there is a friend who has a fine collection sitting in his basement that
he acquired for cheap or free.

Still really like that old stuff...it was built really solid. A while back I
fitted a new power supply and a fast ASUS motherboard into an old PC for a
client. He loves it and it is a real conversation piece sitting on the side
of his desk. 

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Helmut Kotsch
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 11:23 AM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Web RTC built in


I not only remember them but have a complete set of the IBM model 5150 in my
basement. It is hardly used and by this in mint condition. We got it when I
went into retirement in 1992. It has been used in our demo center for the
employees and I paid 50 $ for the whole enchilada. One of these days I will
have to go down and test whether it still works or if some capacitors have
given up. I actually bought my first one of these in 1981 while in the US.
In 1982/3 we have been building our own extension cards with 512 kB of
memory which was a memory size the big /360 systems did have in the late
sixties. Everybody shook their heads.

Helmut


-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]Im Auftrag von Jim
Lawrence
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 6. Februar 2013 19:49
An: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Betreff: Re: [dba-Tech] Web RTC built in


Hi Gustav:

OMG you remember those things... Sold IBMs for a while at $8,000 to $10,000
a piece, two floppy drives, the IBM boot disk, a box of 10 floppy disks
(cost $100 per box, 360K per floppy) and included half a days training. The
government systems came with a version of DbaseII, direct from Aston Tate.
Made a 15 percent margin. Also most of the government machines needed an
Attachmate above board ISA card (about $1000.00) so the PC could also work
as a dumb terminal.

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 8:40 AM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Web RTC built in

Hi Jim

Sorry, I was joking ... it was just that RTC.
Am I really the only one remembering the original IBM PC XT and its ISA
add-in boards for just about anything: RAM, floppy controller, harddisk
controller (MFM), RTC, I/O, and graphics (monochrome or CGA)?

/gustav

-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Jim Lawrence
Sendt: 6. februar 2013 16:04
Til: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Emne: Re: [dba-Tech] Web RTC built in

Hi Gustav:

True but to having full audio and video as well as chat at your finger tips
is quite an advancement. I am aware that it has been around for a while but
just in chat mode...built a chat for a couple of clients but this is to the
next level, with no third party (paid for) apps.

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 4:22 AM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Web RTC built in

Hi Jim

RTC built in? Every computer today has it. But it was missing on the
original IBM PC (XT). If you didn't want to adjust the clock from 1980-01-01
every time you turned on the PC, you had to obtain and install a third-party
option board equipped with this Real Time Clock.

/gustav

-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Jim Lawrence
Sendt: 5. februar 2013 17:47
Til: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Emne: [dba-Tech] Web RTC built in

FireFox and Chrome have both added new features to their browsers that will
allow direct audio and video calling without third party applications or
plug-in. The capabilities is now build right in the browsers.

Along with the article is a small chunk of code showing how this can be
implemented via web page and JavaScript.

https://hacks.mozilla.org/2013/02/hello-chrome-its-firefox-calling/

I understand the both Opera and Safari have similar projects in the works
but as always whether IE will follow the W3C protocol communications
standards or go it alone is anyone's guess. Microsoft does have a large
investment in Skype so this may predetermine their next move.

Jim


_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From gustav at cactus.dk  Thu Feb  7 01:31:12 2013
From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2013 08:31:12 +0100
Subject: [dba-Tech] Web RTC built in
Message-ID: <002401ce0505$1afc49c0$50f4dd40$@cactus.dk>

Hi Helmut

You are a lucky man. I had two of those machines and still recall the
marvelous keyboard. The feeling and sound of this no other brand has ever
matched.

/gustav

-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Helmut Kotsch
Sendt: 6. februar 2013 20:23
Til: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Emne: Re: [dba-Tech] Web RTC built in


I not only remember them but have a complete set of the IBM model 5150 in my
basement. It is hardly used and by this in mint condition. We got it when I
went into retirement in 1992. It has been used in our demo center for the
employees and I paid 50 $ for the whole enchilada. One of these days I will
have to go down and test whether it still works or if some capacitors have
given up. I actually bought my first one of these in 1981 while in the US.
In 1982/3 we have been building our own extension cards with 512 kB of
memory which was a memory size the big /360 systems did have in the late
sixties. Everybody shook their heads.

Helmut


-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]Im Auftrag von Jim Lawrence
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 6. Februar 2013 19:49
An: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Betreff: Re: [dba-Tech] Web RTC built in


Hi Gustav:

OMG you remember those things... Sold IBMs for a while at $8,000 to $10,000
a piece, two floppy drives, the IBM boot disk, a box of 10 floppy disks
(cost $100 per box, 360K per floppy) and included half a days training. The
government systems came with a version of DbaseII, direct from Aston Tate.
Made a 15 percent margin. Also most of the government machines needed an
Attachmate above board ISA card (about $1000.00) so the PC could also work
as a dumb terminal.

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 8:40 AM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Web RTC built in

Hi Jim

Sorry, I was joking ... it was just that RTC.
Am I really the only one remembering the original IBM PC XT and its ISA
add-in boards for just about anything: RAM, floppy controller, harddisk
controller (MFM), RTC, I/O, and graphics (monochrome or CGA)?

/gustav 



From gustav at cactus.dk  Thu Feb  7 02:11:43 2013
From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2013 09:11:43 +0100
Subject: [dba-Tech] Relational v NoSQL
Message-ID: <002f01ce050a$c4081940$4c184bc0$@cactus.dk>

Hi Stuart

Thanks. The examples may not be perfect - as the comments also indicate -
but it reminded me, that for a project years ago on archiving e-mails I had
the idea that these could be split into their parts (to, from, headers,
body, attachments, etc.) to be stored in a well-defined relational table
structure for later searching and retrieval - throwing away the "picture" as
mentioned in the article. But I soon realized that for many e-mails it would
be impossible to assemble them to their original state, indeed if they were
encrypted. Thus, you have to store the original e-mail and, if possible,
extract some key values like addresses for faster searching.

/gustav

-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Stuart McLachlan
Sendt: 6. februar 2013 22:33
Til: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Emne: [dba-Tech] Relational v NoSQL

What does it really mean?  This helps clarify some fundamentals. 

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/02/06/relational_versus_no_sql_paradox/

-- 
Stuart 



From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Thu Feb  7 05:36:30 2013
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2013 21:36:30 +1000
Subject: [dba-Tech] Relational v NoSQL
In-Reply-To: <002f01ce050a$c4081940$4c184bc0$@cactus.dk>
References: <002f01ce050a$c4081940$4c184bc0$@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <511391BE.13612.27121ABD@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

NoSQL? Memcache?

You could try the new mySQL:

"In addition, MySQL 5.6 allows NoSQL-style access to InnoDB data via the Memcached API. 
This means developers can use any of the many existing Memcached clients and libraries to 
bypass the overhead of query parsing, and grab data as simple key-value pairs, resulting in 
as much as a 9x performance improvement for SET/INSERT operations."

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/02/06/oracle_mysql_56_vs_mariadb/



From marklbreen at gmail.com  Thu Feb  7 08:30:08 2013
From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2013 14:30:08 +0000
Subject: [dba-Tech] Is Google docs gone?
In-Reply-To: <9A9480B2725D4344AC0AB1DBF2FC3A3D@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <01da01ce0488$a1871150$e49533f0$@cactus.dk>
	<8107248FF8E449BEAB1A5DB5684DD6EA@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<9A9480B2725D4344AC0AB1DBF2FC3A3D@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <CAGXtTCh7uU3Z9BwXFumcTqEgowCqgrjFd2SSbv5r9fpbhRYUew@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Jim,

Google have made Google Apps a paid for service.  This effects people that
want to use company based google services all integrated with the company
domain name.

Gmail is still free, and so is the docs and calendar associated with single
accounts.  If you want free collaborative docs and spreadsheets, the google
offering is still one of the best.

Incidentally, I still have in my google docs a *Writely* doc which my
daughter created and shared online years ago, before Google purchased
Writely.com.


thanks

Mark




On 7 February 2013 04:12, Jim Lawrence <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:

> Hi All:
>
> Before Google decided to make its Docs package pay-as-you-go, the company
> that owned it made the original source OSS. It was subsequently completely
> rewritten.
>
> So now you can still do collaborative notes with the Open Source version
> and
> export the contents to a variety of formats. For viewing and testing you
> can
> check out the demo at Mozilla called MoPad. It now runs on Node.js:
>
> https://etherpad.mozilla.org/
>
> If you want to use this EtherPad application at your office, home or
> share-it on the web, you can download it install it and run it across you
> web sites/internally or externally and even run it in an iFrame on intranet
> (internet) your web pages...and as you would expect it is fast...very very
> fast.
>
> http://etherpad.org/
>
> It will also give you a good reason to have Node.js install on your Linux
> server.
>
> Aside: If you want to get started it will take a few steps to install but
> nothing too challenging. If stumped, don't know where to start or just
> being
> cautious during the installation, drop a post the DBA-Tech.
>
> Jim
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>

From accessd at shaw.ca  Thu Feb  7 09:53:46 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2013 07:53:46 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Web RTC built in
In-Reply-To: <002401ce0505$1afc49c0$50f4dd40$@cactus.dk>
References: <002401ce0505$1afc49c0$50f4dd40$@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <ADEFE91F7AB64A09BB9BF11E87F0F0CA@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Gustav:

Thank you for reminding me...I have always loved those great keyboards.

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 11:31 PM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Web RTC built in

Hi Helmut

You are a lucky man. I had two of those machines and still recall the
marvelous keyboard. The feeling and sound of this no other brand has ever
matched.

/gustav

-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Helmut Kotsch
Sendt: 6. februar 2013 20:23
Til: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Emne: Re: [dba-Tech] Web RTC built in


I not only remember them but have a complete set of the IBM model 5150 in my
basement. It is hardly used and by this in mint condition. We got it when I
went into retirement in 1992. It has been used in our demo center for the
employees and I paid 50 $ for the whole enchilada. One of these days I will
have to go down and test whether it still works or if some capacitors have
given up. I actually bought my first one of these in 1981 while in the US.
In 1982/3 we have been building our own extension cards with 512 kB of
memory which was a memory size the big /360 systems did have in the late
sixties. Everybody shook their heads.

Helmut


-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]Im Auftrag von Jim Lawrence
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 6. Februar 2013 19:49
An: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Betreff: Re: [dba-Tech] Web RTC built in


Hi Gustav:

OMG you remember those things... Sold IBMs for a while at $8,000 to $10,000
a piece, two floppy drives, the IBM boot disk, a box of 10 floppy disks
(cost $100 per box, 360K per floppy) and included half a days training. The
government systems came with a version of DbaseII, direct from Aston Tate.
Made a 15 percent margin. Also most of the government machines needed an
Attachmate above board ISA card (about $1000.00) so the PC could also work
as a dumb terminal.

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 8:40 AM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Web RTC built in

Hi Jim

Sorry, I was joking ... it was just that RTC.
Am I really the only one remembering the original IBM PC XT and its ISA
add-in boards for just about anything: RAM, floppy controller, harddisk
controller (MFM), RTC, I/O, and graphics (monochrome or CGA)?

/gustav 


_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From accessd at shaw.ca  Thu Feb  7 10:24:28 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2013 08:24:28 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Relational v NoSQL
In-Reply-To: <511391BE.13612.27121ABD@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
References: <002f01ce050a$c4081940$4c184bc0$@cactus.dk>
	<511391BE.13612.27121ABD@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
Message-ID: <F2A81B860CC24D8F95F38CBD85028B3A@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Stuart:

The one thing that could stop any adoption of the new MySQL is Oracle.

"...Since taking control of MySQL, Oracle has jacked up its support prices
and switched to an "open core" model, in which the basic version of the
database is available for free, but extensions aimed at enterprise customers
are proprietary, closed source, and cost a pretty penny..."

If the product development, under Oracle, runs true to form few Startup
development companies, if any will be following changes in MySQL as they
will be moving towards more reliable products or even forks like MariaDB,
for example. 

Many (Most) of the major players in the computer industry today, got their
start with database products like MySQL. If MySQL was not OSS with a GPL
type license we might have not had FaceBook or Amazon or EBay, today. 

If Oracle follows true to form it will not be long before MySQL will no
longer be used in the leading edge development market and MySQL will follow
the route of other over priced products like DBase, FoxPro, Clipper,
DataFlex, Paradox, etc, into history.

Jim  

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 3:37 AM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Relational v NoSQL

NoSQL? Memcache?

You could try the new mySQL:

"In addition, MySQL 5.6 allows NoSQL-style access to InnoDB data via the
Memcached API. 
This means developers can use any of the many existing Memcached clients and
libraries to 
bypass the overhead of query parsing, and grab data as simple key-value
pairs, resulting in 
as much as a 9x performance improvement for SET/INSERT operations."

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/02/06/oracle_mysql_56_vs_mariadb/


_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From accessd at shaw.ca  Thu Feb  7 10:36:50 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2013 08:36:50 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Is Google docs gone?
In-Reply-To: <CAGXtTCh7uU3Z9BwXFumcTqEgowCqgrjFd2SSbv5r9fpbhRYUew@mail.gmail.com>
References: <01da01ce0488$a1871150$e49533f0$@cactus.dk><8107248FF8E449BEAB1A5DB5684DD6EA@creativesystemdesigns.com><9A9480B2725D4344AC0AB1DBF2FC3A3D@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<CAGXtTCh7uU3Z9BwXFumcTqEgowCqgrjFd2SSbv5r9fpbhRYUew@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <63210D8E6115409D882C2ACC77053D04@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Mark:

I like the Google products. 

Many companies depend on them, though I am not as up in what is the current
state-of-the-art when it comes to Google or any part of the industry for
that matter. Being free products there is always the danger, especially if a
third-party company becomes very reliant on the specific app just to find
the pricing structure has dramatically changed or the product has been
abandoned.

So Google Apps are not sold as a bundle? (Excluding GMail of course) I
thought the pricing had recently changed? ...or is the bundle still fee for
single users?

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Breen
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 6:30 AM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Is Google docs gone?

Hello Jim,

Google have made Google Apps a paid for service.  This effects people that
want to use company based google services all integrated with the company
domain name.

Gmail is still free, and so is the docs and calendar associated with single
accounts.  If you want free collaborative docs and spreadsheets, the google
offering is still one of the best.

Incidentally, I still have in my google docs a *Writely* doc which my
daughter created and shared online years ago, before Google purchased
Writely.com.


thanks

Mark




On 7 February 2013 04:12, Jim Lawrence <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:

> Hi All:
>
> Before Google decided to make its Docs package pay-as-you-go, the company
> that owned it made the original source OSS. It was subsequently completely
> rewritten.
>
> So now you can still do collaborative notes with the Open Source version
> and
> export the contents to a variety of formats. For viewing and testing you
> can
> check out the demo at Mozilla called MoPad. It now runs on Node.js:
>
> https://etherpad.mozilla.org/
>
> If you want to use this EtherPad application at your office, home or
> share-it on the web, you can download it install it and run it across you
> web sites/internally or externally and even run it in an iFrame on
intranet
> (internet) your web pages...and as you would expect it is fast...very very
> fast.
>
> http://etherpad.org/
>
> It will also give you a good reason to have Node.js install on your Linux
> server.
>
> Aside: If you want to get started it will take a few steps to install but
> nothing too challenging. If stumped, don't know where to start or just
> being
> cautious during the installation, drop a post the DBA-Tech.
>
> Jim
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From accessd at shaw.ca  Thu Feb  7 10:58:10 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2013 08:58:10 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] BitTorrent is getting into the sync market
In-Reply-To: <9A9480B2725D4344AC0AB1DBF2FC3A3D@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <01da01ce0488$a1871150$e49533f0$@cactus.dk><8107248FF8E449BEAB1A5DB5684DD6EA@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<9A9480B2725D4344AC0AB1DBF2FC3A3D@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <B215A3FA5FF4423B88D963B0B25383BD@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi All:

BitTorrent may be getting into the "DropBox" type market.

The difference will be that the data will not be stored in the Cloud, at
least not permanently and that the data transferred will be protected via
256 bit AES encryption. The product will also run on all the standard OSs,
Mac, Windows and Linux.

http://gigaom.com/2013/01/24/bittorrent-sync-app/

Whether there will be size limits on data transfers is yet to be answered
but if the new product runs like the current BitTorrent client it might
become a must-half for doing remote secure backups.  

Jim


From accessd at shaw.ca  Thu Feb  7 11:20:00 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2013 09:20:00 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] The Windows Surface Pro
In-Reply-To: <B215A3FA5FF4423B88D963B0B25383BD@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <01da01ce0488$a1871150$e49533f0$@cactus.dk><8107248FF8E449BEAB1A5DB5684DD6EA@creativesystemdesigns.com><9A9480B2725D4344AC0AB1DBF2FC3A3D@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<B215A3FA5FF4423B88D963B0B25383BD@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <B5892821A60C46D38953180A625467D4@creativesystemdesigns.com>

The Surface Pro is finally out.

It is pricy but it performance is truly stellar.

Pricing:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6695/microsoft-surface-pro-review

Performance:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6695/microsoft-surface-pro-review/5

Now, if Microsoft would just change or fix the OS they would have a show
stopper.

Jim


From accessd at shaw.ca  Thu Feb  7 11:25:33 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2013 09:25:33 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] The Windows Surface Pro
In-Reply-To: <B5892821A60C46D38953180A625467D4@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <01da01ce0488$a1871150$e49533f0$@cactus.dk><8107248FF8E449BEAB1A5DB5684DD6EA@creativesystemdesigns.com><9A9480B2725D4344AC0AB1DBF2FC3A3D@creativesystemdesigns.com><B215A3FA5FF4423B88D963B0B25383BD@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<B5892821A60C46D38953180A625467D4@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <2F5415E2D0CB4ED18A43421E77DBF7DA@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi All:

PS: Note the Mozilla Kraken Benchmark test where Chrome running on the
Surface Pro performs 50 percent faster than IE10. (V8 vs Trident) ;-)

Jim 

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 9:20 AM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: [dba-Tech] The Windows Surface Pro

The Surface Pro is finally out.

It is pricy but it performance is truly stellar.

Pricing:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6695/microsoft-surface-pro-review

Performance:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6695/microsoft-surface-pro-review/5

Now, if Microsoft would just change or fix the OS they would have a show
stopper.

Jim

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Thu Feb  7 14:13:04 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2013 00:13:04 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech] =?utf-8?q?The_Windows_Surface_Pro?=
In-Reply-To: <2F5415E2D0CB4ED18A43421E77DBF7DA@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <01da01ce0488$a1871150$e49533f0$@cactus.dk>
	<B5892821A60C46D38953180A625467D4@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<2F5415E2D0CB4ED18A43421E77DBF7DA@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <1360267984.116754627@f249.mail.ru>

 Hi Jim --

Thank you for the link. Now that's a good news :)

I have just run here ?SunSpider and Kraken tests on ASUS N76Vz (similar to http://www.amazon.com/dp/B007Z9EB0O). Here are my results:

SunSpider 0.9.1 (smaller is better)
=========================
Chrome 24 - 265
IE 10 - 165
IE 10 "beats" Chrome in all tests: 3d, access, bitops, controflow, crypto, date, math, regexp, string.
kraken-1.1 (smaller is better)
=====================
Chrome 24 ?- 3386
IE 10 ? ? ? ? ? - 7432
Chrome 24 "beats" IE 10 in ai, audio, imaging tests.
json and stanford tests have nearly the same results for Chrome 24 and IE 10.
AFAIS 'ai', 'audio' and 'imaging' groups of Kraken tests are more about general type of (data) processing than the tasks usually done in "everyday" JavaScript. Therefore I'm assuming that Chrome 24 and IE 10 are now performing equally the same for usual web tasks. Please correct me if you'll find my assumption is not quite right.

Thank you.

-- Shamil


???????,  7 ??????? 2013, 9:25 -08:00 ?? "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca>:
>Hi All:
>
>PS: Note the Mozilla Kraken Benchmark test where Chrome running on the
>Surface Pro performs 50 percent faster than IE10. (V8 vs Trident) ;-)
>
>Jim 
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From:  dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence
>Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 9:20 AM
>To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
>Subject: [dba-Tech] The Windows Surface Pro
>
>The Surface Pro is finally out.
>
>It is pricy but it performance is truly stellar.
>
>Pricing:
>http://www.anandtech.com/show/6695/microsoft-surface-pro-review
>
>Performance:
>http://www.anandtech.com/show/6695/microsoft-surface-pro-review/5
>
>Now, if Microsoft would just change or fix the OS they would have a show
>stopper.
>
>Jim
>


From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Thu Feb  7 16:04:33 2013
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2013 08:04:33 +1000
Subject: [dba-Tech] Relational v NoSQL
In-Reply-To: <F2A81B860CC24D8F95F38CBD85028B3A@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <002f01ce050a$c4081940$4c184bc0$@cactus.dk>,
	<511391BE.13612.27121ABD@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>,
	<F2A81B860CC24D8F95F38CBD85028B3A@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <511424F1.21731.29511AF8@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

You'repreaching to the choir here. :-)

Are you aware of an WAMP/XAMP style packages with MariaDB in place of MySQL?

-- 
Stuart

On 7 Feb 2013 at 8:24, Jim Lawrence wrote:

> Hi Stuart:
> 
> The one thing that could stop any adoption of the new MySQL is Oracle.
> 
> "...Since taking control of MySQL, Oracle has jacked up its support prices
> and switched to an "open core" model, in which the basic version of the
> database is available for free, but extensions aimed at enterprise customers
> are proprietary, closed source, and cost a pretty penny..."
> 
> If the product development, under Oracle, runs true to form few Startup
> development companies, if any will be following changes in MySQL as they
> will be moving towards more reliable products or even forks like MariaDB,
> for example. 
> 
> Many (Most) of the major players in the computer industry today, got their
> start with database products like MySQL. If MySQL was not OSS with a GPL
> type license we might have not had FaceBook or Amazon or EBay, today. 
> 
> If Oracle follows true to form it will not be long before MySQL will no
> longer be used in the leading edge development market and MySQL will follow
> the route of other over priced products like DBase, FoxPro, Clipper,
> DataFlex, Paradox, etc, into history.
> 
> Jim  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan
> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 3:37 AM
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Relational v NoSQL
> 
> NoSQL? Memcache?
> 
> You could try the new mySQL:
> 
> "In addition, MySQL 5.6 allows NoSQL-style access to InnoDB data via the
> Memcached API. 
> This means developers can use any of the many existing Memcached clients and
> libraries to 
> bypass the overhead of query parsing, and grab data as simple key-value
> pairs, resulting in 
> as much as a 9x performance improvement for SET/INSERT operations."
> 
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/02/06/oracle_mysql_56_vs_mariadb/
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 



From accessd at shaw.ca  Thu Feb  7 19:17:11 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2013 17:17:11 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Relational v NoSQL
In-Reply-To: <511424F1.21731.29511AF8@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
References: <002f01ce050a$c4081940$4c184bc0$@cactus.dk>,
	<511391BE.13612.27121ABD@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>,
	<F2A81B860CC24D8F95F38CBD85028B3A@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<511424F1.21731.29511AF8@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
Message-ID: <97EB478A6B8844929E3B6185BFDBF526@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Stuart:

I thought I recognized your voice. :-)

I was not aware that MariaDB had supplanted MySQL but I am pleased to hear
it.

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 2:05 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Relational v NoSQL

You'repreaching to the choir here. :-)

Are you aware of an WAMP/XAMP style packages with MariaDB in place of MySQL?

-- 
Stuart

On 7 Feb 2013 at 8:24, Jim Lawrence wrote:

> Hi Stuart:
> 
> The one thing that could stop any adoption of the new MySQL is Oracle.
> 
> "...Since taking control of MySQL, Oracle has jacked up its support prices
> and switched to an "open core" model, in which the basic version of the
> database is available for free, but extensions aimed at enterprise
customers
> are proprietary, closed source, and cost a pretty penny..."
> 
> If the product development, under Oracle, runs true to form few Startup
> development companies, if any will be following changes in MySQL as they
> will be moving towards more reliable products or even forks like MariaDB,
> for example. 
> 
> Many (Most) of the major players in the computer industry today, got their
> start with database products like MySQL. If MySQL was not OSS with a GPL
> type license we might have not had FaceBook or Amazon or EBay, today. 
> 
> If Oracle follows true to form it will not be long before MySQL will no
> longer be used in the leading edge development market and MySQL will
follow
> the route of other over priced products like DBase, FoxPro, Clipper,
> DataFlex, Paradox, etc, into history.
> 
> Jim  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart
McLachlan
> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 3:37 AM
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Relational v NoSQL
> 
> NoSQL? Memcache?
> 
> You could try the new mySQL:
> 
> "In addition, MySQL 5.6 allows NoSQL-style access to InnoDB data via the
> Memcached API. 
> This means developers can use any of the many existing Memcached clients
and
> libraries to 
> bypass the overhead of query parsing, and grab data as simple key-value
> pairs, resulting in 
> as much as a 9x performance improvement for SET/INSERT operations."
> 
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/02/06/oracle_mysql_56_vs_mariadb/
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 


_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From hans.andersen at phulse.com  Thu Feb  7 20:21:07 2013
From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2013 18:21:07 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Is Google docs gone?
In-Reply-To: <63210D8E6115409D882C2ACC77053D04@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <01da01ce0488$a1871150$e49533f0$@cactus.dk>
	<8107248FF8E449BEAB1A5DB5684DD6EA@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<9A9480B2725D4344AC0AB1DBF2FC3A3D@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<CAGXtTCh7uU3Z9BwXFumcTqEgowCqgrjFd2SSbv5r9fpbhRYUew@mail.gmail.com>
	<63210D8E6115409D882C2ACC77053D04@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <EB4EA16E-B83F-4177-B335-12F1FB6D84CE@phulse.com>

Hi Jim, google apps is no longer free for anyone at all. Google apps is googles service that allows you to use googles web applications under your domain name. For a personal user, this is more of a vanity thing, as you can get  everything as normal, but only under a @gmail.com address (whereas I'm able to use googles services under my @phulse.com domain).

- Hans


On 2013-02-07, at 8:36 AM, "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:

> Hi Mark:
> 
> I like the Google products. 
> 
> Many companies depend on them, though I am not as up in what is the current
> state-of-the-art when it comes to Google or any part of the industry for
> that matter. Being free products there is always the danger, especially if a
> third-party company becomes very reliant on the specific app just to find
> the pricing structure has dramatically changed or the product has been
> abandoned.
> 
> So Google Apps are not sold as a bundle? (Excluding GMail of course) I
> thought the pricing had recently changed? ...or is the bundle still fee for
> single users?
> 
> Jim
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Breen
> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 6:30 AM
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Is Google docs gone?
> 
> Hello Jim,
> 
> Google have made Google Apps a paid for service.  This effects people that
> want to use company based google services all integrated with the company
> domain name.
> 
> Gmail is still free, and so is the docs and calendar associated with single
> accounts.  If you want free collaborative docs and spreadsheets, the google
> offering is still one of the best.
> 
> Incidentally, I still have in my google docs a *Writely* doc which my
> daughter created and shared online years ago, before Google purchased
> Writely.com.
> 
> 
> thanks
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 7 February 2013 04:12, Jim Lawrence <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:
> 
>> Hi All:
>> 
>> Before Google decided to make its Docs package pay-as-you-go, the company
>> that owned it made the original source OSS. It was subsequently completely
>> rewritten.
>> 
>> So now you can still do collaborative notes with the Open Source version
>> and
>> export the contents to a variety of formats. For viewing and testing you
>> can
>> check out the demo at Mozilla called MoPad. It now runs on Node.js:
>> 
>> https://etherpad.mozilla.org/
>> 
>> If you want to use this EtherPad application at your office, home or
>> share-it on the web, you can download it install it and run it across you
>> web sites/internally or externally and even run it in an iFrame on
> intranet
>> (internet) your web pages...and as you would expect it is fast...very very
>> fast.
>> 
>> http://etherpad.org/
>> 
>> It will also give you a good reason to have Node.js install on your Linux
>> server.
>> 
>> Aside: If you want to get started it will take a few steps to install but
>> nothing too challenging. If stumped, don't know where to start or just
>> being
>> cautious during the installation, drop a post the DBA-Tech.
>> 
>> Jim
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> dba-Tech mailing list
>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From hans.andersen at phulse.com  Thu Feb  7 20:23:28 2013
From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2013 18:23:28 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] The Windows Surface Pro
In-Reply-To: <B5892821A60C46D38953180A625467D4@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <01da01ce0488$a1871150$e49533f0$@cactus.dk>
	<8107248FF8E449BEAB1A5DB5684DD6EA@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<9A9480B2725D4344AC0AB1DBF2FC3A3D@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<B215A3FA5FF4423B88D963B0B25383BD@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<B5892821A60C46D38953180A625467D4@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <96A7E1C5-3D22-45CA-894C-3E1174DE47DD@phulse.com>

I heard from other sources that performance was actually an issue and so was responsiveness of the OS and keyboard/mouse attachment.

I wonder who is right?

- Hans


On 2013-02-07, at 9:20 AM, "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:

> The Surface Pro is finally out.
> 
> It is pricy but it performance is truly stellar.
> 
> Pricing:
> http://www.anandtech.com/show/6695/microsoft-surface-pro-review
> 
> Performance:
> http://www.anandtech.com/show/6695/microsoft-surface-pro-review/5
> 
> Now, if Microsoft would just change or fix the OS they would have a show
> stopper.
> 
> Jim
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From hans.andersen at phulse.com  Thu Feb  7 20:25:03 2013
From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2013 18:25:03 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] The Windows Surface Pro
In-Reply-To: <2F5415E2D0CB4ED18A43421E77DBF7DA@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <01da01ce0488$a1871150$e49533f0$@cactus.dk>
	<8107248FF8E449BEAB1A5DB5684DD6EA@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<9A9480B2725D4344AC0AB1DBF2FC3A3D@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<B215A3FA5FF4423B88D963B0B25383BD@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<B5892821A60C46D38953180A625467D4@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<2F5415E2D0CB4ED18A43421E77DBF7DA@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <CDB2B0C4-F552-423C-BBC2-7D13239024F1@phulse.com>

Hi Jim,

I wouldn't trust a benchmark from Mozilla blindly. You should test the performance with an independent, unaffiliated benchmarking tool.

- Hans


On 2013-02-07, at 9:25 AM, "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:

> Hi All:
> 
> PS: Note the Mozilla Kraken Benchmark test where Chrome running on the
> Surface Pro performs 50 percent faster than IE10. (V8 vs Trident) ;-)
> 
> Jim 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence
> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 9:20 AM
> To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
> Subject: [dba-Tech] The Windows Surface Pro
> 
> The Surface Pro is finally out.
> 
> It is pricy but it performance is truly stellar.
> 
> Pricing:
> http://www.anandtech.com/show/6695/microsoft-surface-pro-review
> 
> Performance:
> http://www.anandtech.com/show/6695/microsoft-surface-pro-review/5
> 
> Now, if Microsoft would just change or fix the OS they would have a show
> stopper.
> 
> Jim
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From hans.andersen at phulse.com  Thu Feb  7 20:30:37 2013
From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2013 18:30:37 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Relational v NoSQL
In-Reply-To: <97EB478A6B8844929E3B6185BFDBF526@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <002f01ce050a$c4081940$4c184bc0$@cactus.dk>
	<511391BE.13612.27121ABD@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
	<F2A81B860CC24D8F95F38CBD85028B3A@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<511424F1.21731.29511AF8@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
	<97EB478A6B8844929E3B6185BFDBF526@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <016CEC64-0556-419F-9617-FCCE5CF12E88@phulse.com>

It's hasn't quite yet, but spread the word. These things take time. :)

- Hans


On 2013-02-07, at 5:17 PM, "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:

> Hi Stuart:
> 
> I thought I recognized your voice. :-)
> 
> I was not aware that MariaDB had supplanted MySQL but I am pleased to hear
> it.
> 
> Jim
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan
> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 2:05 PM
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Relational v NoSQL
> 
> You'repreaching to the choir here. :-)
> 
> Are you aware of an WAMP/XAMP style packages with MariaDB in place of MySQL?
> 
> -- 
> Stuart
> 
> On 7 Feb 2013 at 8:24, Jim Lawrence wrote:
> 
>> Hi Stuart:
>> 
>> The one thing that could stop any adoption of the new MySQL is Oracle.
>> 
>> "...Since taking control of MySQL, Oracle has jacked up its support prices
>> and switched to an "open core" model, in which the basic version of the
>> database is available for free, but extensions aimed at enterprise
> customers
>> are proprietary, closed source, and cost a pretty penny..."
>> 
>> If the product development, under Oracle, runs true to form few Startup
>> development companies, if any will be following changes in MySQL as they
>> will be moving towards more reliable products or even forks like MariaDB,
>> for example. 
>> 
>> Many (Most) of the major players in the computer industry today, got their
>> start with database products like MySQL. If MySQL was not OSS with a GPL
>> type license we might have not had FaceBook or Amazon or EBay, today. 
>> 
>> If Oracle follows true to form it will not be long before MySQL will no
>> longer be used in the leading edge development market and MySQL will
> follow
>> the route of other over priced products like DBase, FoxPro, Clipper,
>> DataFlex, Paradox, etc, into history.
>> 
>> Jim  
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart
> McLachlan
>> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 3:37 AM
>> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Relational v NoSQL
>> 
>> NoSQL? Memcache?
>> 
>> You could try the new mySQL:
>> 
>> "In addition, MySQL 5.6 allows NoSQL-style access to InnoDB data via the
>> Memcached API. 
>> This means developers can use any of the many existing Memcached clients
> and
>> libraries to 
>> bypass the overhead of query parsing, and grab data as simple key-value
>> pairs, resulting in 
>> as much as a 9x performance improvement for SET/INSERT operations."
>> 
>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/02/06/oracle_mysql_56_vs_mariadb/
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> dba-Tech mailing list
>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> dba-Tech mailing list
>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From peter.brawley at earthlink.net  Thu Feb  7 20:50:23 2013
From: peter.brawley at earthlink.net (Peter Brawley)
Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2013 20:50:23 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] Relational v NoSQL
In-Reply-To: <016CEC64-0556-419F-9617-FCCE5CF12E88@phulse.com>
References: <002f01ce050a$c4081940$4c184bc0$@cactus.dk>
	<511391BE.13612.27121ABD@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
	<F2A81B860CC24D8F95F38CBD85028B3A@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<511424F1.21731.29511AF8@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
	<97EB478A6B8844929E3B6185BFDBF526@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<016CEC64-0556-419F-9617-FCCE5CF12E88@phulse.com>
Message-ID: <511467EF.1090207@earthlink.net>

On 2013-02-07 8:30 PM, Hans-Christian Andersen wrote:
> It's hasn't quite yet, but spread the word. These things take time. :)

MariaDB hasn't supplanted MySQL. To do that, Monty would have to 
persuade a few million hosting providers to install & support it.

If Oracle continues squeezing the open source MySQL edition, though, it 
may start to happen.

PB

-----

>
> - Hans
>
>
> On 2013-02-07, at 5:17 PM, "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:
>
>> Hi Stuart:
>>
>> I thought I recognized your voice. :-)
>>
>> I was not aware that MariaDB had supplanted MySQL but I am pleased to hear
>> it.
>>
>> Jim
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan
>> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 2:05 PM
>> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Relational v NoSQL
>>
>> You'repreaching to the choir here. :-)
>>
>> Are you aware of an WAMP/XAMP style packages with MariaDB in place of MySQL?
>>
>> -- 
>> Stuart
>>
>> On 7 Feb 2013 at 8:24, Jim Lawrence wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Stuart:
>>>
>>> The one thing that could stop any adoption of the new MySQL is Oracle.
>>>
>>> "...Since taking control of MySQL, Oracle has jacked up its support prices
>>> and switched to an "open core" model, in which the basic version of the
>>> database is available for free, but extensions aimed at enterprise
>> customers
>>> are proprietary, closed source, and cost a pretty penny..."
>>>
>>> If the product development, under Oracle, runs true to form few Startup
>>> development companies, if any will be following changes in MySQL as they
>>> will be moving towards more reliable products or even forks like MariaDB,
>>> for example.
>>>
>>> Many (Most) of the major players in the computer industry today, got their
>>> start with database products like MySQL. If MySQL was not OSS with a GPL
>>> type license we might have not had FaceBook or Amazon or EBay, today.
>>>
>>> If Oracle follows true to form it will not be long before MySQL will no
>>> longer be used in the leading edge development market and MySQL will
>> follow
>>> the route of other over priced products like DBase, FoxPro, Clipper,
>>> DataFlex, Paradox, etc, into history.
>>>
>>> Jim
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>>> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart
>> McLachlan
>>> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 3:37 AM
>>> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>>> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Relational v NoSQL
>>>
>>> NoSQL? Memcache?
>>>
>>> You could try the new mySQL:
>>>
>>> "In addition, MySQL 5.6 allows NoSQL-style access to InnoDB data via the
>>> Memcached API.
>>> This means developers can use any of the many existing Memcached clients
>> and
>>> libraries to
>>> bypass the overhead of query parsing, and grab data as simple key-value
>>> pairs, resulting in
>>> as much as a 9x performance improvement for SET/INSERT operations."
>>>
>>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/02/06/oracle_mysql_56_vs_mariadb/
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> dba-Tech mailing list
>>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> dba-Tech mailing list
>>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> dba-Tech mailing list
>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> dba-Tech mailing list
>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>


From gustav at cactus.dk  Fri Feb  8 08:03:28 2013
From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 15:03:28 +0100
Subject: [dba-Tech] The Windows Surface Pro
Message-ID: <010601ce0605$1206c600$36145200$@cactus.dk>

Hi Jim

Wow. It outperforms my Xeon-powered ThinkStation, not much but still.
Perhaps if I update Win7 to 8 it will match.

/gustav

-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Jim Lawrence
Sendt: 7. februar 2013 18:20
Til: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Emne: [dba-Tech] The Windows Surface Pro

The Surface Pro is finally out.

It is pricy but it performance is truly stellar.

Pricing:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6695/microsoft-surface-pro-review

Performance:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6695/microsoft-surface-pro-review/5

Now, if Microsoft would just change or fix the OS they would have a show
stopper.

Jim



From accessd at shaw.ca  Fri Feb  8 11:25:48 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 09:25:48 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] The Windows Surface Pro
In-Reply-To: <CDB2B0C4-F552-423C-BBC2-7D13239024F1@phulse.com>
References: <01da01ce0488$a1871150$e49533f0$@cactus.dk><8107248FF8E449BEAB1A5DB5684DD6EA@creativesystemdesigns.com><9A9480B2725D4344AC0AB1DBF2FC3A3D@creativesystemdesigns.com><B215A3FA5FF4423B88D963B0B25383BD@creativesystemdesigns.com><B5892821A60C46D38953180A625467D4@creativesystemdesigns.com><2F5415E2D0CB4ED18A43421E77DBF7DA@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<CDB2B0C4-F552-423C-BBC2-7D13239024F1@phulse.com>
Message-ID: <76F1DD1F75BE4F438FDEF9EC5267A1A1@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Hans:

This discussion has been going back and forth for quite a while and everyone
can point to dramatic results. One shows that IE10 has superior results to
Chrome and another shows Chrome has far superior results to IE. 

Which one is correct? Which result can be trusted or at least deemed
impartial? Where would/could these internet performance tests be made?

So where is this independent, unaffiliated benchmarking tool and what are
the results?

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian
Andersen
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 6:25 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The Windows Surface Pro

Hi Jim,

I wouldn't trust a benchmark from Mozilla blindly. You should test the
performance with an independent, unaffiliated benchmarking tool.

- Hans


On 2013-02-07, at 9:25 AM, "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:

> Hi All:
> 
> PS: Note the Mozilla Kraken Benchmark test where Chrome running on the
> Surface Pro performs 50 percent faster than IE10. (V8 vs Trident) ;-)
> 
> Jim 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence
> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 9:20 AM
> To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
> Subject: [dba-Tech] The Windows Surface Pro
> 
> The Surface Pro is finally out.
> 
> It is pricy but it performance is truly stellar.
> 
> Pricing:
> http://www.anandtech.com/show/6695/microsoft-surface-pro-review
> 
> Performance:
> http://www.anandtech.com/show/6695/microsoft-surface-pro-review/5
> 
> Now, if Microsoft would just change or fix the OS they would have a show
> stopper.
> 
> Jim
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From accessd at shaw.ca  Fri Feb  8 13:00:26 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 11:00:26 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Relational v NoSQL
In-Reply-To: <511467EF.1090207@earthlink.net>
References: <002f01ce050a$c4081940$4c184bc0$@cactus.dk><511391BE.13612.27121ABD@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><F2A81B860CC24D8F95F38CBD85028B3A@creativesystemdesigns.com><511424F1.21731.29511AF8@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><97EB478A6B8844929E3B6185BFDBF526@creativesystemdesigns.com><016CEC64-0556-419F-9617-FCCE5CF12E88@phulse.com>
	<511467EF.1090207@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <124D60C7932C4485B80C548ECAAD524B@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Peter:

I predict will be a long while before MySQL disappears from the landscape as
MySQL has such an advantage being a very well known and established product.

OTOH, MySQL's adoption, for the last few months has been completely flat.
Providers of the database have used MySQL as a stable and inexpensive
alternative to more pricey options. This is no longer the case.

As soon as the forks of MySQL like MariaDB start releasing sets of modern
and competing features and MySQL is offering the same but only at a
substantual price, the change will happen rapidly. Right now there is no
advantage for migrating to another MySQL fork other than to avoid potential,
Oracle based patent infingements.  

Jim   

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Peter Brawley
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 6:50 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Relational v NoSQL

On 2013-02-07 8:30 PM, Hans-Christian Andersen wrote:
> It's hasn't quite yet, but spread the word. These things take time. :)

MariaDB hasn't supplanted MySQL. To do that, Monty would have to 
persuade a few million hosting providers to install & support it.

If Oracle continues squeezing the open source MySQL edition, though, it 
may start to happen.

PB

-----

>
> - Hans
>
>
> On 2013-02-07, at 5:17 PM, "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:
>
>> Hi Stuart:
>>
>> I thought I recognized your voice. :-)
>>
>> I was not aware that MariaDB had supplanted MySQL but I am pleased to
hear
>> it.
>>
>> Jim
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart
McLachlan
>> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 2:05 PM
>> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Relational v NoSQL
>>
>> You'repreaching to the choir here. :-)
>>
>> Are you aware of an WAMP/XAMP style packages with MariaDB in place of
MySQL?
>>
>> -- 
>> Stuart
>>
>> On 7 Feb 2013 at 8:24, Jim Lawrence wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Stuart:
>>>
>>> The one thing that could stop any adoption of the new MySQL is Oracle.
>>>
>>> "...Since taking control of MySQL, Oracle has jacked up its support
prices
>>> and switched to an "open core" model, in which the basic version of the
>>> database is available for free, but extensions aimed at enterprise
>> customers
>>> are proprietary, closed source, and cost a pretty penny..."
>>>
>>> If the product development, under Oracle, runs true to form few Startup
>>> development companies, if any will be following changes in MySQL as they
>>> will be moving towards more reliable products or even forks like
MariaDB,
>>> for example.
>>>
>>> Many (Most) of the major players in the computer industry today, got
their
>>> start with database products like MySQL. If MySQL was not OSS with a GPL
>>> type license we might have not had FaceBook or Amazon or EBay, today.
>>>
>>> If Oracle follows true to form it will not be long before MySQL will no
>>> longer be used in the leading edge development market and MySQL will
>> follow
>>> the route of other over priced products like DBase, FoxPro, Clipper,
>>> DataFlex, Paradox, etc, into history.
>>>
>>> Jim
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>>> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart
>> McLachlan
>>> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 3:37 AM
>>> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>>> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Relational v NoSQL
>>>
>>> NoSQL? Memcache?
>>>
>>> You could try the new mySQL:
>>>
>>> "In addition, MySQL 5.6 allows NoSQL-style access to InnoDB data via the
>>> Memcached API.
>>> This means developers can use any of the many existing Memcached clients
>> and
>>> libraries to
>>> bypass the overhead of query parsing, and grab data as simple key-value
>>> pairs, resulting in
>>> as much as a 9x performance improvement for SET/INSERT operations."
>>>
>>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/02/06/oracle_mysql_56_vs_mariadb/
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> dba-Tech mailing list
>>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> dba-Tech mailing list
>>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> dba-Tech mailing list
>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> dba-Tech mailing list
>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From accessd at shaw.ca  Fri Feb  8 13:01:34 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 11:01:34 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Libre Office 4.0
In-Reply-To: <76F1DD1F75BE4F438FDEF9EC5267A1A1@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <01da01ce0488$a1871150$e49533f0$@cactus.dk><8107248FF8E449BEAB1A5DB5684DD6EA@creativesystemdesigns.com><9A9480B2725D4344AC0AB1DBF2FC3A3D@creativesystemdesigns.com><B215A3FA5FF4423B88D963B0B25383BD@creativesystemdesigns.com><B5892821A60C46D38953180A625467D4@creativesystemdesigns.com><2F5415E2D0CB4ED18A43421E77DBF7DA@creativesystemdesigns.com><CDB2B0C4-F552-423C-BBC2-7D13239024F1@phulse.com>
	<76F1DD1F75BE4F438FDEF9EC5267A1A1@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <110575EB487B4A08B0939A68761FD971@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi All:

Libre Office 4 has just been released. There are many new features and as
always with a totally new release it undoubtedly has its little bugs and
annoyances...

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/02/08/libreoffice_40_ships/

I will wait until 4.x before unleashing it on the clients. 

There is an interesting feature that will allow you to use your Smartphone
to control a slide presentation. :-) There might even be a Android version
in the works but the full office package still has to squeezed down below
the 50 MB limit.

Also there is a parallel project which is planning to release a direct
competitor to Microsoft Office 365 and Google Apps... You can check out the
plans and current projects at http://www.openoffice.org

Jim    


From peter.brawley at earthlink.net  Fri Feb  8 13:19:27 2013
From: peter.brawley at earthlink.net (Peter Brawley)
Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2013 13:19:27 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] Relational v NoSQL
In-Reply-To: <124D60C7932C4485B80C548ECAAD524B@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <002f01ce050a$c4081940$4c184bc0$@cactus.dk><511391BE.13612.27121ABD@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><F2A81B860CC24D8F95F38CBD85028B3A@creativesystemdesigns.com><511424F1.21731.29511AF8@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><97EB478A6B8844929E3B6185BFDBF526@creativesystemdesigns.com><016CEC64-0556-419F-9617-FCCE5CF12E88@phulse.com>
	<511467EF.1090207@earthlink.net>
	<124D60C7932C4485B80C548ECAAD524B@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <51154FBF.80403@earthlink.net>

On 2013-02-08 1:00 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote:
> Hi Peter:
>
> I predict will be a long while before MySQL disappears from the landscape as
> MySQL has such an advantage being a very well known and established product.

It's a web hosting staple, so it won't go away till there are 
fundamental changes in that technology.

> OTOH, MySQL's adoption, for the last few months has been completely flat.

Yes.

> Providers of the database have used MySQL as a stable and inexpensive
> alternative to more pricey options. This is no longer the case.

Did you mean customers? Yes.

>
> As soon as the forks of MySQL like MariaDB start releasing sets of modern
> and competing features and MySQL is offering the same but only at a
> substantual price, the change will happen rapidly.

So far, Oracle has MariaDB developers running as fast as they can just 
to avoid falling further behind.

PB

> Right now there is no
> advantage for migrating to another MySQL fork other than to avoid potential,
> Oracle based patent infingements.
>
> Jim
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Peter Brawley
> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 6:50 PM
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Relational v NoSQL
>
> On 2013-02-07 8:30 PM, Hans-Christian Andersen wrote:
>> It's hasn't quite yet, but spread the word. These things take time. :)
> MariaDB hasn't supplanted MySQL. To do that, Monty would have to
> persuade a few million hosting providers to install & support it.
>
> If Oracle continues squeezing the open source MySQL edition, though, it
> may start to happen.
>
> PB
>
> -----
>
>> - Hans
>>
>>
>> On 2013-02-07, at 5:17 PM, "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Stuart:
>>>
>>> I thought I recognized your voice. :-)
>>>
>>> I was not aware that MariaDB had supplanted MySQL but I am pleased to
> hear
>>> it.
>>>
>>> Jim
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>>> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart
> McLachlan
>>> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 2:05 PM
>>> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>>> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Relational v NoSQL
>>>
>>> You'repreaching to the choir here. :-)
>>>
>>> Are you aware of an WAMP/XAMP style packages with MariaDB in place of
> MySQL?
>>> -- 
>>> Stuart
>>>
>>> On 7 Feb 2013 at 8:24, Jim Lawrence wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Stuart:
>>>>
>>>> The one thing that could stop any adoption of the new MySQL is Oracle.
>>>>
>>>> "...Since taking control of MySQL, Oracle has jacked up its support
> prices
>>>> and switched to an "open core" model, in which the basic version of the
>>>> database is available for free, but extensions aimed at enterprise
>>> customers
>>>> are proprietary, closed source, and cost a pretty penny..."
>>>>
>>>> If the product development, under Oracle, runs true to form few Startup
>>>> development companies, if any will be following changes in MySQL as they
>>>> will be moving towards more reliable products or even forks like
> MariaDB,
>>>> for example.
>>>>
>>>> Many (Most) of the major players in the computer industry today, got
> their
>>>> start with database products like MySQL. If MySQL was not OSS with a GPL
>>>> type license we might have not had FaceBook or Amazon or EBay, today.
>>>>
>>>> If Oracle follows true to form it will not be long before MySQL will no
>>>> longer be used in the leading edge development market and MySQL will
>>> follow
>>>> the route of other over priced products like DBase, FoxPro, Clipper,
>>>> DataFlex, Paradox, etc, into history.
>>>>
>>>> Jim
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>>>> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart
>>> McLachlan
>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 3:37 AM
>>>> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>>>> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Relational v NoSQL
>>>>
>>>> NoSQL? Memcache?
>>>>
>>>> You could try the new mySQL:
>>>>
>>>> "In addition, MySQL 5.6 allows NoSQL-style access to InnoDB data via the
>>>> Memcached API.
>>>> This means developers can use any of the many existing Memcached clients
>>> and
>>>> libraries to
>>>> bypass the overhead of query parsing, and grab data as simple key-value
>>>> pairs, resulting in
>>>> as much as a 9x performance improvement for SET/INSERT operations."
>>>>
>>>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/02/06/oracle_mysql_56_vs_mariadb/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> dba-Tech mailing list
>>>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> dba-Tech mailing list
>>>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> dba-Tech mailing list
>>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> dba-Tech mailing list
>>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> dba-Tech mailing list
>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>


From accessd at shaw.ca  Fri Feb  8 14:41:22 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 12:41:22 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Relational v NoSQL
In-Reply-To: <51154FBF.80403@earthlink.net>
References: <002f01ce050a$c4081940$4c184bc0$@cactus.dk><511391BE.13612.27121ABD@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><F2A81B860CC24D8F95F38CBD85028B3A@creativesystemdesigns.com><511424F1.21731.29511AF8@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><97EB478A6B8844929E3B6185BFDBF526@creativesystemdesigns.com><016CEC64-0556-419F-9617-FCCE5CF12E88@phulse.com><511467EF.1090207@earthlink.net><124D60C7932C4485B80C548ECAAD524B@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<51154FBF.80403@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <A163343A967A4C47A4B5496D754196FE@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Peter:

This is such a big subject so it is hard to limit the discussion to a few
short sentences so my apologies. 

Whether Oracle can change what was basically an OSS product into a
pay-as-you-go product is debatable. They have already lost OpenOffice to
Apache and Libra Office and whether they will be any more successful with
MySQL is a question. IMHO, Oracle's dream of assuming that most of the old
MYSQL database user will accept Oracle's embrace is just that, a dream. (I
know of one local hosting company that still offers MySQL, as one of the
options but their product is really MariaDB.) 

"...So far, Oracle has MariaDB developers running as fast as they can just 
to avoid falling further behind..."

There is no race to add new features and that is hardly something that will
predetermine whether a user go one way or the other. The truth is that
community based OSS products, that are very useful, have no trouble
attracting the very best and brightest developers, from the business world,
from the universities and from everywhere in the world. This always results
in the most innovation and this is why most major computer companies (case
in point; Microsoft) support OSS products. They need the innovation to
improve and advertise their own products.

The difference is that any Oracle changes and improvements cost the
buyer/user directly and any OSS changes will not. I wonder how many techs
and ISPs will be willing to pay for each extra features considering the
improvements will be built in totally proprietary code? Why not just buy
Oracle and have done with it?

The market segment that was attracted to the MySQL OSS is a totally
different market from the companies that are attracted to Oracle... but not
any more. 

Take the case of the little startup of FaceBook. They first used MySQL
because of the price and when they grew they developed and shared many
add-ons that allowed MySQL to work in a distributive environment. They also
made many improvements and fixes to MySQL which they shared back into the
product community to the benefit of many other startups and smaller users.
As the product was OSS, hundreds of other small and growing companies
continued to improve the database application... but not any more.  

(FaceBook, of course will no longer make improvements on MySQL and they have
also moved towards other OSS NoSQL products.)

We shall see if the two concepts of commercial and community development can
find a collaborative position...given Oracle's past record. What is your
bet?

Jim
 
-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Peter Brawley
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 11:19 AM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Relational v NoSQL

On 2013-02-08 1:00 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote:
> Hi Peter:
>
> I predict will be a long while before MySQL disappears from the landscape
as
> MySQL has such an advantage being a very well known and established
product.

It's a web hosting staple, so it won't go away till there are 
fundamental changes in that technology.

> OTOH, MySQL's adoption, for the last few months has been completely flat.

Yes.

> Providers of the database have used MySQL as a stable and inexpensive
> alternative to more pricey options. This is no longer the case.

Did you mean customers? Yes.

>
> As soon as the forks of MySQL like MariaDB start releasing sets of modern
> and competing features and MySQL is offering the same but only at a
> substantual price, the change will happen rapidly.

So far, Oracle has MariaDB developers running as fast as they can just 
to avoid falling further behind.

PB


From peter.brawley at earthlink.net  Fri Feb  8 15:32:11 2013
From: peter.brawley at earthlink.net (Peter Brawley)
Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2013 15:32:11 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] Relational v NoSQL
In-Reply-To: <A163343A967A4C47A4B5496D754196FE@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <002f01ce050a$c4081940$4c184bc0$@cactus.dk><511391BE.13612.27121ABD@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><F2A81B860CC24D8F95F38CBD85028B3A@creativesystemdesigns.com><511424F1.21731.29511AF8@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><97EB478A6B8844929E3B6185BFDBF526@creativesystemdesigns.com><016CEC64-0556-419F-9617-FCCE5CF12E88@phulse.com><511467EF.1090207@earthlink.net><124D60C7932C4485B80C548ECAAD524B@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<51154FBF.80403@earthlink.net>
	<A163343A967A4C47A4B5496D754196FE@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <51156EDB.9040202@earthlink.net>

On 2013-02-08 2:41 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote:
> Hi Peter:
>
> This is such a big subject so it is hard to limit the discussion to a few
> short sentences so my apologies.
>
> Whether Oracle can change what was basically an OSS product into a
> pay-as-you-go product is debatable. They have already lost OpenOffice to
> Apache and Libra Office and whether they will be any more successful with
> MySQL is a question. IMHO, Oracle's dream of assuming that most of the old
> MYSQL database user will accept Oracle's embrace is just that, a dream. (I
> know of one local hosting company that still offers MySQL, as one of the
> options but their product is really MariaDB.)
>
> "...So far, Oracle has MariaDB developers running as fast as they can just
> to avoid falling further behind..."
>
> There is no race to add new features and that is hardly something that will
> predetermine whether a user go one way or the other. The truth is that
> community based OSS products, that are very useful, have no trouble
> attracting the very best and brightest developers, from the business world,
> from the universities and from everywhere in the world. This always results
> in the most innovation and this is why most major computer companies (case
> in point; Microsoft) support OSS products. They need the innovation to
> improve and advertise their own products.
>
> The difference is that any Oracle changes and improvements cost the
> buyer/user directly and any OSS changes will not. I wonder how many techs
> and ISPs will be willing to pay for each extra features considering the
> improvements will be built in totally proprietary code? Why not just buy
> Oracle and have done with it?
>
> The market segment that was attracted to the MySQL OSS is a totally
> different market from the companies that are attracted to Oracle... but not
> any more.
>
> Take the case of the little startup of FaceBook. They first used MySQL
> because of the price and when they grew they developed and shared many
> add-ons that allowed MySQL to work in a distributive environment. They also
> made many improvements and fixes to MySQL which they shared back into the
> product community to the benefit of many other startups and smaller users.
> As the product was OSS, hundreds of other small and growing companies
> continued to improve the database application... but not any more.
>
> (FaceBook, of course will no longer make improvements on MySQL and they have
> also moved towards other OSS NoSQL products.)
>
> We shall see if the two concepts of commercial and community development can
> find a collaborative position...given Oracle's past record. What is your
> bet?

Oracle is a profit predator. I agree with much of what you say. Their 
model is cathedral not bazaar, but they are making improvements to the 
community edition, and those are the changes that Monty is having ti run 
to keep up with in MariaDB.

Fedora & OpenSuse are considering switching to MariaDB. Other *Nix 
vensors not so much. UNtil that reaches a critical mass, I do not think 
hosting providers will rush to support MariaDB. Until they do, I think 
mariaDB remains a small market.,

PB


>
> Jim
>   
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Peter Brawley
> Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 11:19 AM
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Relational v NoSQL
>
> On 2013-02-08 1:00 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote:
>> Hi Peter:
>>
>> I predict will be a long while before MySQL disappears from the landscape
> as
>> MySQL has such an advantage being a very well known and established
> product.
>
> It's a web hosting staple, so it won't go away till there are
> fundamental changes in that technology.
>
>> OTOH, MySQL's adoption, for the last few months has been completely flat.
> Yes.
>
>> Providers of the database have used MySQL as a stable and inexpensive
>> alternative to more pricey options. This is no longer the case.
> Did you mean customers? Yes.
>
>> As soon as the forks of MySQL like MariaDB start releasing sets of modern
>> and competing features and MySQL is offering the same but only at a
>> substantual price, the change will happen rapidly.
> So far, Oracle has MariaDB developers running as fast as they can just
> to avoid falling further behind.
>
> PB
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>


From hans.andersen at phulse.com  Fri Feb  8 15:45:34 2013
From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 13:45:34 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] The Windows Surface Pro
In-Reply-To: <76F1DD1F75BE4F438FDEF9EC5267A1A1@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <01da01ce0488$a1871150$e49533f0$@cactus.dk>
	<8107248FF8E449BEAB1A5DB5684DD6EA@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<9A9480B2725D4344AC0AB1DBF2FC3A3D@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<B215A3FA5FF4423B88D963B0B25383BD@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<B5892821A60C46D38953180A625467D4@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<2F5415E2D0CB4ED18A43421E77DBF7DA@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<CDB2B0C4-F552-423C-BBC2-7D13239024F1@phulse.com>
	<76F1DD1F75BE4F438FDEF9EC5267A1A1@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <31FE81F5-463C-4018-8DC0-5B53BAE13394@phulse.com>

I gave Shamil a few suggestions. I don't have them all on hand, but there is Peacekeeper from futuremark, as an example.

- Hans


On 2013-02-08, at 9:25 AM, "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:

> Hi Hans:
> 
> This discussion has been going back and forth for quite a while and everyone
> can point to dramatic results. One shows that IE10 has superior results to
> Chrome and another shows Chrome has far superior results to IE. 
> 
> Which one is correct? Which result can be trusted or at least deemed
> impartial? Where would/could these internet performance tests be made?
> 
> So where is this independent, unaffiliated benchmarking tool and what are
> the results?
> 
> Jim
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian
> Andersen
> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 6:25 PM
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The Windows Surface Pro
> 
> Hi Jim,
> 
> I wouldn't trust a benchmark from Mozilla blindly. You should test the
> performance with an independent, unaffiliated benchmarking tool.
> 
> - Hans
> 
> 
> On 2013-02-07, at 9:25 AM, "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:
> 
>> Hi All:
>> 
>> PS: Note the Mozilla Kraken Benchmark test where Chrome running on the
>> Surface Pro performs 50 percent faster than IE10. (V8 vs Trident) ;-)
>> 
>> Jim 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence
>> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 9:20 AM
>> To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
>> Subject: [dba-Tech] The Windows Surface Pro
>> 
>> The Surface Pro is finally out.
>> 
>> It is pricy but it performance is truly stellar.
>> 
>> Pricing:
>> http://www.anandtech.com/show/6695/microsoft-surface-pro-review
>> 
>> Performance:
>> http://www.anandtech.com/show/6695/microsoft-surface-pro-review/5
>> 
>> Now, if Microsoft would just change or fix the OS they would have a show
>> stopper.
>> 
>> Jim
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> dba-Tech mailing list
>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> dba-Tech mailing list
>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From hans.andersen at phulse.com  Fri Feb  8 15:57:51 2013
From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 13:57:51 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] The Windows Surface Pro
In-Reply-To: <31FE81F5-463C-4018-8DC0-5B53BAE13394@phulse.com>
References: <01da01ce0488$a1871150$e49533f0$@cactus.dk>
	<8107248FF8E449BEAB1A5DB5684DD6EA@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<9A9480B2725D4344AC0AB1DBF2FC3A3D@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<B215A3FA5FF4423B88D963B0B25383BD@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<B5892821A60C46D38953180A625467D4@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<2F5415E2D0CB4ED18A43421E77DBF7DA@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<CDB2B0C4-F552-423C-BBC2-7D13239024F1@phulse.com>
	<76F1DD1F75BE4F438FDEF9EC5267A1A1@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<31FE81F5-463C-4018-8DC0-5B53BAE13394@phulse.com>
Message-ID: <CAFj0BAxchL=vwKN-5etnAVeccVV-ke==4Sm59NjrRVUpqExkdQ@mail.gmail.com>

Here's an example result set.

http://bit.ly/XtsxsW

- Hans

*

Hans-Christian Andersen
**Web Application Developer, Vancouver, Canada*


E: hans at phulse.com
T: +44 (0)20 7193 7841
L: http://uk.linkedin.com/in/andersenhc
http://www.nokenode.com/

*Unique Gifts, Collectables, Artwork*
*Come one, come all to.... *www.corinnajasmine.com
*
*



On 8 February 2013 13:45, Hans-Christian Andersen
<hans.andersen at phulse.com>wrote:

> I gave Shamil a few suggestions. I don't have them all on hand, but there
> is Peacekeeper from futuremark, as an example.
>
> - Hans
>
>
> On 2013-02-08, at 9:25 AM, "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:
>
> > Hi Hans:
> >
> > This discussion has been going back and forth for quite a while and
> everyone
> > can point to dramatic results. One shows that IE10 has superior results
> to
> > Chrome and another shows Chrome has far superior results to IE.
> >
> > Which one is correct? Which result can be trusted or at least deemed
> > impartial? Where would/could these internet performance tests be made?
> >
> > So where is this independent, unaffiliated benchmarking tool and what are
> > the results?
> >
> > Jim
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
> Hans-Christian
> > Andersen
> > Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 6:25 PM
> > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The Windows Surface Pro
> >
> > Hi Jim,
> >
> > I wouldn't trust a benchmark from Mozilla blindly. You should test the
> > performance with an independent, unaffiliated benchmarking tool.
> >
> > - Hans
> >
> >
> > On 2013-02-07, at 9:25 AM, "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi All:
> >>
> >> PS: Note the Mozilla Kraken Benchmark test where Chrome running on the
> >> Surface Pro performs 50 percent faster than IE10. (V8 vs Trident) ;-)
> >>
> >> Jim
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> >> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim
> Lawrence
> >> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 9:20 AM
> >> To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
> >> Subject: [dba-Tech] The Windows Surface Pro
> >>
> >> The Surface Pro is finally out.
> >>
> >> It is pricy but it performance is truly stellar.
> >>
> >> Pricing:
> >> http://www.anandtech.com/show/6695/microsoft-surface-pro-review
> >>
> >> Performance:
> >> http://www.anandtech.com/show/6695/microsoft-surface-pro-review/5
> >>
> >> Now, if Microsoft would just change or fix the OS they would have a show
> >> stopper.
> >>
> >> Jim
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> dba-Tech mailing list
> >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> dba-Tech mailing list
> >> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > dba-Tech mailing list
> > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > dba-Tech mailing list
> > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>

From tinanfields at torchlake.com  Sat Feb  9 10:52:36 2013
From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields)
Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2013 11:52:36 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] Relational v NoSQL
In-Reply-To: <5112CC1B.31695.240E10B0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
References: <s112d5bd.072@cactus.dk>
	<5112CC1B.31695.240E10B0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
Message-ID: <51167ED4.4020900@torchlake.com>

Very interesting article. Thanks, Stuart.
The writer highlights a behavior that I observe to occur in many 
settings - a division of opinion in which each side makes an absolute 
and general statement that is true but incomplete, followed by a total 
unwillingness to discover common ground.  This behavior clearly is not 
designed for reaching consensus of any kind, but rather to promote 
rivalry and contention.  Too bad, from my perspective, because there is 
so much to be gained by finding understanding and learning what the 
"other guy" has to teach.  I learn so much more from those who see 
things differently from me than I do from those who agree with me.  That 
opposing perspective can be very useful.
Thanks again, Stuart, for posting that link.
T

Tina Norris Fields
tinanfields at torchlake.com
231-322-2787

On 2/6/2013 4:33 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote:
> What does it really mean?  This helps clarify some fundamentals.
>
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/02/06/relational_versus_no_sql_paradox/
>


From hans.andersen at phulse.com  Sat Feb  9 12:15:36 2013
From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen)
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2013 10:15:36 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Relational v NoSQL
In-Reply-To: <51154FBF.80403@earthlink.net>
References: <002f01ce050a$c4081940$4c184bc0$@cactus.dk><511391BE.13612.27121ABD@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><F2A81B860CC24D8F95F38CBD85028B3A@creativesystemdesigns.com><511424F1.21731.29511AF8@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><97EB478A6B8844929E3B6185BFDBF526@creativesystemdesigns.com><016CEC64-0556-419F-9617-FCCE5CF12E88@phulse.com>
	<511467EF.1090207@earthlink.net>
	<124D60C7932C4485B80C548ECAAD524B@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<51154FBF.80403@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <879DF2C7-6569-48D4-9629-FCC724AD6480@phulse.com>



> So far, Oracle has MariaDB developers running as fast as they can just to avoid falling further behind.

As far as I can tell, MariaDB provides more advanced features than stock open-source MySQL does, so I'm not sure what you mean by this?


>> I predict will be a long while before MySQL disappears from the landscape as MySQL has such an advantage being a very well known and established product.

> It's a web hosting staple, so it won't go away till there are fundamental changes in that technology.

To be honest, I think it is a lot simpler than this. Since most of these shared hosting services are based on Linux, I think the migration to MariaDB really comes down to whether their Linux distribution of choice includes MariaDB in their package manager and how long it takes for these hosting providers to keep up to date with the latest versions of their Linux distributions and software packages.

For instance, I would not at all be surprised if many of them are running some cold version of CentOS 5.x from 2-3 years ago.

To give you another example, my personal home server running Ubuntu Server 11.04 (which I have kept up-to-date) does not have MariaDB in its package sources. I could install the binaries myself, but then I would have to manage security patches myself and all those other headaches. This is the only reason holding me back. If an up-to-date 2 year old distribution of a more bleeding edge distro like Ubuntu doesn't even have MariaDB in its package manager, then its probably much worse for those other more "enterprisey" distributions of Linux who move at a more glacier pace and are used by companies that are more reluctant to upgrade to the latest and greatest version of "x" distro.


- Hans


On 2013-02-08, at 11:19 AM, Peter Brawley <peter.brawley at earthlink.net> wrote:

> On 2013-02-08 1:00 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote:
>> Hi Peter:
>> 
>> I predict will be a long while before MySQL disappears from the landscape as
>> MySQL has such an advantage being a very well known and established product.
> 
> It's a web hosting staple, so it won't go away till there are fundamental changes in that technology.
> 
>> OTOH, MySQL's adoption, for the last few months has been completely flat.
> 
> Yes.
> 
>> Providers of the database have used MySQL as a stable and inexpensive
>> alternative to more pricey options. This is no longer the case.
> 
> Did you mean customers? Yes.
> 
>> 
>> As soon as the forks of MySQL like MariaDB start releasing sets of modern
>> and competing features and MySQL is offering the same but only at a
>> substantual price, the change will happen rapidly.
> 
> So far, Oracle has MariaDB developers running as fast as they can just to avoid falling further behind.
> 
> PB
> 
>> Right now there is no
>> advantage for migrating to another MySQL fork other than to avoid potential,
>> Oracle based patent infingements.
>> 
>> Jim
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Peter Brawley
>> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 6:50 PM
>> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Relational v NoSQL
>> 
>> On 2013-02-07 8:30 PM, Hans-Christian Andersen wrote:
>>> It's hasn't quite yet, but spread the word. These things take time. :)
>> MariaDB hasn't supplanted MySQL. To do that, Monty would have to
>> persuade a few million hosting providers to install & support it.
>> 
>> If Oracle continues squeezing the open source MySQL edition, though, it
>> may start to happen.
>> 
>> PB
>> 
>> -----
>> 
>>> - Hans
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 2013-02-07, at 5:17 PM, "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Hi Stuart:
>>>> 
>>>> I thought I recognized your voice. :-)
>>>> 
>>>> I was not aware that MariaDB had supplanted MySQL but I am pleased to
>> hear
>>>> it.
>>>> 
>>>> Jim
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>>>> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart
>> McLachlan
>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 2:05 PM
>>>> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>>>> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Relational v NoSQL
>>>> 
>>>> You'repreaching to the choir here. :-)
>>>> 
>>>> Are you aware of an WAMP/XAMP style packages with MariaDB in place of
>> MySQL?
>>>> -- 
>>>> Stuart
>>>> 
>>>> On 7 Feb 2013 at 8:24, Jim Lawrence wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Hi Stuart:
>>>>> 
>>>>> The one thing that could stop any adoption of the new MySQL is Oracle.
>>>>> 
>>>>> "...Since taking control of MySQL, Oracle has jacked up its support
>> prices
>>>>> and switched to an "open core" model, in which the basic version of the
>>>>> database is available for free, but extensions aimed at enterprise
>>>> customers
>>>>> are proprietary, closed source, and cost a pretty penny..."
>>>>> 
>>>>> If the product development, under Oracle, runs true to form few Startup
>>>>> development companies, if any will be following changes in MySQL as they
>>>>> will be moving towards more reliable products or even forks like
>> MariaDB,
>>>>> for example.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Many (Most) of the major players in the computer industry today, got
>> their
>>>>> start with database products like MySQL. If MySQL was not OSS with a GPL
>>>>> type license we might have not had FaceBook or Amazon or EBay, today.
>>>>> 
>>>>> If Oracle follows true to form it will not be long before MySQL will no
>>>>> longer be used in the leading edge development market and MySQL will
>>>> follow
>>>>> the route of other over priced products like DBase, FoxPro, Clipper,
>>>>> DataFlex, Paradox, etc, into history.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Jim
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>>>>> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart
>>>> McLachlan
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 3:37 AM
>>>>> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>>>>> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Relational v NoSQL
>>>>> 
>>>>> NoSQL? Memcache?
>>>>> 
>>>>> You could try the new mySQL:
>>>>> 
>>>>> "In addition, MySQL 5.6 allows NoSQL-style access to InnoDB data via the
>>>>> Memcached API.
>>>>> This means developers can use any of the many existing Memcached clients
>>>> and
>>>>> libraries to
>>>>> bypass the overhead of query parsing, and grab data as simple key-value
>>>>> pairs, resulting in
>>>>> as much as a 9x performance improvement for SET/INSERT operations."
>>>>> 
>>>>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/02/06/oracle_mysql_56_vs_mariadb/
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> dba-Tech mailing list
>>>>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> dba-Tech mailing list
>>>>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> dba-Tech mailing list
>>>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> dba-Tech mailing list
>>>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> dba-Tech mailing list
>>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> dba-Tech mailing list
>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> dba-Tech mailing list
>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From peter.brawley at earthlink.net  Sat Feb  9 14:18:09 2013
From: peter.brawley at earthlink.net (Peter Brawley)
Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2013 14:18:09 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] Relational v NoSQL
In-Reply-To: <879DF2C7-6569-48D4-9629-FCC724AD6480@phulse.com>
References: <002f01ce050a$c4081940$4c184bc0$@cactus.dk><511391BE.13612.27121ABD@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><F2A81B860CC24D8F95F38CBD85028B3A@creativesystemdesigns.com><511424F1.21731.29511AF8@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><97EB478A6B8844929E3B6185BFDBF526@creativesystemdesigns.com><016CEC64-0556-419F-9617-FCCE5CF12E88@phulse.com>
	<511467EF.1090207@earthlink.net>
	<124D60C7932C4485B80C548ECAAD524B@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<51154FBF.80403@earthlink.net>
	<879DF2C7-6569-48D4-9629-FCC724AD6480@phulse.com>
Message-ID: <5116AF01.7040502@earthlink.net>

On 2013-02-09 12:15 PM, Hans-Christian Andersen wrote:
>
>> So far, Oracle has MariaDB developers running as fast as they can just to avoid falling further behind.
> As far as I can tell, MariaDB provides more advanced features than stock open-source MySQL does, so I'm not sure what you mean by this?

MariaDB is running weeks to months behind MySQL 5.5, and isn't even 
trying yet for compatibility with much of the new stuff in MySQL 5.6 
(http://dev.mysql.com/doc/relnotes/mysql/5.6/en/).

>
>
>>> I predict will be a long while before MySQL disappears from the landscape as MySQL has such an advantage being a very well known and established product.
>> It's a web hosting staple, so it won't go away till there are fundamental changes in that technology.
> To be honest, I think it is a lot simpler than this. Since most of these shared hosting services are based on Linux, I think the migration to MariaDB really comes down to whether their Linux distribution of choice includes MariaDB in their package manager and how long it takes for these hosting providers to keep up to date with the latest versions of their Linux distributions and software packages.

If your business depends on websites that use MySQL, what business 
problem would you solve by migrating to MariaDB? In most cases, I think 
the answer is "none".

For that situation to change, it seems to me, (i) Oracle will have to 
commit a major gaffe with the community edition of MySQL, and (ii) a 
majority of hosting providers will have to provide strictly comparable 
versions of MariaDb plus simple tools for seamless migration.

I'm not betting against [i]. I just notice it hasn't happened yet.

PB

-----

>
> For instance, I would not at all be surprised if many of them are running some cold version of CentOS 5.x from 2-3 years ago.
>
> To give you another example, my personal home server running Ubuntu Server 11.04 (which I have kept up-to-date) does not have MariaDB in its package sources. I could install the binaries myself, but then I would have to manage security patches myself and all those other headaches. This is the only reason holding me back. If an up-to-date 2 year old distribution of a more bleeding edge distro like Ubuntu doesn't even have MariaDB in its package manager, then its probably much worse for those other more "enterprisey" distributions of Linux who move at a more glacier pace and are used by companies that are more reluctant to upgrade to the latest and greatest version of "x" distro.
>
>
> - Hans
>
>
> On 2013-02-08, at 11:19 AM, Peter Brawley <peter.brawley at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> On 2013-02-08 1:00 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote:
>>> Hi Peter:
>>>
>>> I predict will be a long while before MySQL disappears from the landscape as
>>> MySQL has such an advantage being a very well known and established product.
>> It's a web hosting staple, so it won't go away till there are fundamental changes in that technology.
>>
>>> OTOH, MySQL's adoption, for the last few months has been completely flat.
>> Yes.
>>
>>> Providers of the database have used MySQL as a stable and inexpensive
>>> alternative to more pricey options. This is no longer the case.
>> Did you mean customers? Yes.
>>
>>> As soon as the forks of MySQL like MariaDB start releasing sets of modern
>>> and competing features and MySQL is offering the same but only at a
>>> substantual price, the change will happen rapidly.
>> So far, Oracle has MariaDB developers running as fast as they can just to avoid falling further behind.
>>
>> PB
>>
>>> Right now there is no
>>> advantage for migrating to another MySQL fork other than to avoid potential,
>>> Oracle based patent infingements.
>>>
>>> Jim
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>>> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Peter Brawley
>>> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 6:50 PM
>>> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>>> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Relational v NoSQL
>>>
>>> On 2013-02-07 8:30 PM, Hans-Christian Andersen wrote:
>>>> It's hasn't quite yet, but spread the word. These things take time. :)
>>> MariaDB hasn't supplanted MySQL. To do that, Monty would have to
>>> persuade a few million hosting providers to install & support it.
>>>
>>> If Oracle continues squeezing the open source MySQL edition, though, it
>>> may start to happen.
>>>
>>> PB
>>>
>>> -----
>>>
>>>> - Hans
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 2013-02-07, at 5:17 PM, "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Stuart:
>>>>>
>>>>> I thought I recognized your voice. :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> I was not aware that MariaDB had supplanted MySQL but I am pleased to
>>> hear
>>>>> it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jim
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>>>>> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart
>>> McLachlan
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 2:05 PM
>>>>> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>>>>> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Relational v NoSQL
>>>>>
>>>>> You'repreaching to the choir here. :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> Are you aware of an WAMP/XAMP style packages with MariaDB in place of
>>> MySQL?
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> Stuart
>>>>>
>>>>> On 7 Feb 2013 at 8:24, Jim Lawrence wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Stuart:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The one thing that could stop any adoption of the new MySQL is Oracle.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "...Since taking control of MySQL, Oracle has jacked up its support
>>> prices
>>>>>> and switched to an "open core" model, in which the basic version of the
>>>>>> database is available for free, but extensions aimed at enterprise
>>>>> customers
>>>>>> are proprietary, closed source, and cost a pretty penny..."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If the product development, under Oracle, runs true to form few Startup
>>>>>> development companies, if any will be following changes in MySQL as they
>>>>>> will be moving towards more reliable products or even forks like
>>> MariaDB,
>>>>>> for example.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Many (Most) of the major players in the computer industry today, got
>>> their
>>>>>> start with database products like MySQL. If MySQL was not OSS with a GPL
>>>>>> type license we might have not had FaceBook or Amazon or EBay, today.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If Oracle follows true to form it will not be long before MySQL will no
>>>>>> longer be used in the leading edge development market and MySQL will
>>>>> follow
>>>>>> the route of other over priced products like DBase, FoxPro, Clipper,
>>>>>> DataFlex, Paradox, etc, into history.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jim
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>>>>>> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart
>>>>> McLachlan
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 3:37 AM
>>>>>> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Relational v NoSQL
>>>>>>
>>>>>> NoSQL? Memcache?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You could try the new mySQL:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "In addition, MySQL 5.6 allows NoSQL-style access to InnoDB data via the
>>>>>> Memcached API.
>>>>>> This means developers can use any of the many existing Memcached clients
>>>>> and
>>>>>> libraries to
>>>>>> bypass the overhead of query parsing, and grab data as simple key-value
>>>>>> pairs, resulting in
>>>>>> as much as a 9x performance improvement for SET/INSERT operations."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/02/06/oracle_mysql_56_vs_mariadb/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> dba-Tech mailing list
>>>>>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> dba-Tech mailing list
>>>>>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> dba-Tech mailing list
>>>>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> dba-Tech mailing list
>>>>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> dba-Tech mailing list
>>>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> dba-Tech mailing list
>>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> dba-Tech mailing list
>>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> dba-Tech mailing list
>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>


From peter.brawley at earthlink.net  Sat Feb  9 17:17:55 2013
From: peter.brawley at earthlink.net (Peter Brawley)
Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2013 17:17:55 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] Relational v NoSQL
Message-ID: <5116D923.4040303@earthlink.net>

On 2013-02-09 2:31 PM, Hans-Christian Andersen wrote:
>
> I don't know if you have read MariaDB's change log:
>
> http://blog.mariadb.org/what-does-mariadb-10-0-1-include-available-now/
>
>
> There are far more new features in MariaDB than there is in MySQL (and 
> many of those are eventually ported into MySQL). I would have to say 
> that the biggest new feature of MySQL 5.6 is a MemCache-like API 
> interface to MySQL interface, which I personally think is solving a 
> problem nobody has. The only person this is useful to is a person 
> using a shared hosting service that doesn't have MemCache installed, 
> but most shared hosting services will take many many years before they 
> upgrade to MySQL 5.6.

My hosting providers went to 5.5 soon after its general release.

> And, if you manage your own servers, you are far better off just 
> installing MemCache.
>
> Other than that, it's just performance improvements.

No, there's a lot of stuff listed at 
http://dev.mysql.com/doc/relnotes/mysql/5.6/en/.

And again, for whether or when MariaDB will supplant MySQL, I don't 
dounbt Monty's team is doing good things with MariaDB. The question's 
when there'll be enough hosting providers offering MariaDB-MySQL 
interchangeability to support a large exodus from MySQL, and whether 
there's a compelling business reason for many people who depend on MySQL 
to switch to MariaDB.

PB

-----


However, if you look at what the MariaDB folks have been doing (and how 
much of it gets ported back into MySQL), I would have to say the flow of 
keeping up-to-date is in the other direction!

- Hans




On 2013-02-09, at 12:18 PM, Peter Brawley <peter.brawley at earthlink.net 
<mailto:peter.brawley at earthlink.net>> wrote:

On 2013-02-09 12:15 PM, Hans-Christian Andersen wrote:
>
>> So far, Oracle has MariaDB developers running as fast as they can 
>> just to avoid falling further behind.
> As far as I can tell, MariaDB provides more advanced features than 
> stock open-source MySQL does, so I'm not sure what you mean by this?

MariaDB is running weeks to months behind MySQL 5.5, and isn't even 
trying yet for compatibility with much of the new stuff in MySQL 5.6 
(http://dev.mysql.com/doc/relnotes/mysql/5.6/en/).

>
>
>>> I predict will be a long while before MySQL disappears from the 
>>> landscape as MySQL has such an advantage being a very well known and 
>>> established product.
>> It's a web hosting staple, so it won't go away till there are 
>> fundamental changes in that technology.
> To be honest, I think it is a lot simpler than this. Since most of 
> these shared hosting services are based on Linux, I think the 
> migration to MariaDB really comes down to whether their Linux 
> distribution of choice includes MariaDB in their package manager and 
> how long it takes for these hosting providers to keep up to date with 
> the latest versions of their Linux distributions and software packages.

If your business depends on websites that use MySQL, what business 
problem would you solve by migrating to MariaDB? In most cases, I think 
the answer is "none".

For that situation to change, it seems to me, (i) Oracle will have to 
commit a major gaffe with the community edition of MySQL, and (ii) a 
majority of hosting providers will have to provide strictly comparable 
versions of MariaDb plus simple tools for seamless migration.

I'm not betting against [i]. I just notice it hasn't happened yet.

PB

-----

From fuller.artful at gmail.com  Sat Feb  9 17:56:59 2013
From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller)
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2013 18:56:59 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] SharePoint, Access, InfoPath
Message-ID: <CAEPJO1ggm2K4uNNOOkyM9j+4VPkoGiqzB5WELJA43Lcqd05xWQ@mail.gmail.com>

Even after reading a couple of overviews, I still remain a little (a lot?)
vague on how these components. From what I can see, SharePoint as sort of
portal within an organization, and may contain any number of folders and
documents and Access databases and something called SharePoint lists,
whatever they may be.

During a quick visit to a colleague's office, I got a quick glance at an
InfoPath front end which appeared to be talking to an Access back end. The
InfoPath forms looked a lot more like typical documents than like
traditional Access forms. I was told that everyone in the organization had
access to InfoPath, and gathered that part of doing things this way was to
facilitating document sharing and workflow; that instead of a bunch of
emails sent back and forth with attached documents, that this approach
provided a single source for the current revision of any document.

It has been said repeatedly on this list and/or our AccessD list that
SharePoint will not accept an Access db that contains VBA code (or perhaps
will accept it but not be able to execute any VBA contained therein.
Although I have InfoPath 2007 installed, I don't think I have fired it up
more than once, if that, so I have no inkling as to its capabilities and
limitations. Could it be that SharePoint will accept InfoPath forms
containing code, but not Access forms?

I ask anyone with knowledge of these three products working together to
offer an overview and any additional things that would help me grasp this
technology stack. (Such as, given that an Access db lives somewhere in
SharePoint, how did it get there in the first place, and assuming that it
subsequently evolves - new table or query added, etc. - how is it updated?
I sure hope that structural changes are not performed on the production
version of the Access db.

Thanks for any light you can shed.

-- 
Arthur
Cell: 647.710.1314

Prediction is difficult, especially of the future.
  -- Niels Bohr

From accessd at shaw.ca  Sat Feb  9 19:26:05 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2013 17:26:05 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Is Excell the most important program
In-Reply-To: <5116AF01.7040502@earthlink.net>
References: <002f01ce050a$c4081940$4c184bc0$@cactus.dk><511391BE.13612.27121ABD@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><F2A81B860CC24D8F95F38CBD85028B3A@creativesystemdesigns.com><511424F1.21731.29511AF8@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><97EB478A6B8844929E3B6185BFDBF526@creativesystemdesigns.com><016CEC64-0556-419F-9617-FCCE5CF12E88@phulse.com><511467EF.1090207@earthlink.net><124D60C7932C4485B80C548ECAAD524B@creativesystemdesigns.com><51154FBF.80403@earthlink.net><879DF2C7-6569-48D4-9629-FCC724AD6480@phulse.com>
	<5116AF01.7040502@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <1182C74F706348D39E3618543DD53FA2@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi All:

Here is an interesting concept of the importance of the Excel Spreadsheet
application.

http://baselinescenario.com/2013/02/09/the-importance-of-excel/#more-10537

Jim


From peter.brawley at earthlink.net  Sat Feb  9 19:48:50 2013
From: peter.brawley at earthlink.net (Peter Brawley)
Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2013 19:48:50 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] Relational v NoSQL
Message-ID: <5116FC82.6050106@earthlink.net>

On 2013-02-09 5:49 PM, Hans-Christian Andersen wrote:
>
> > My hosting providers went to 5.5 soon after its general release.
>
> Then you are quite fortunate! Most hosting providers I have seen are 
> barely shy of MySQL 5.1. Apparently GoDaddy - the big one - is still 
> only MySQL 5.0 (and 4.1, if needed).

Excuse the Latin, GoDaddy is a bad joke.
>
> Whats your hosting provider?

HostMDS in Toronto. Think Budget Rent-A-Car.

>
> > No, there's a lot of stuff listed at 
> http://dev.mysql.com/doc/relnotes/mysql/5.6/en/.
>
> "What Is New in MySQL 5.6
> This section summarizes what has been added to and removed from MySQL 
> 5.6."
>
> http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.6/en/mysql-nutshell.html
>
> I don't know about you, but I don't see a whole lot of exciting things 
> here other than "improved that, enhanced this, better security here". 
> Do you see anything noteworthy here?

Exciting I don't claim. Volume I do. I'm speaking of the detailed 
release-by-release notes, I gotta study 'em to keep our book on MySQL up 
to date; I know I've done a lotta writing these last few months.

>
> > And again, for whether or when MariaDB will supplant MySQL, I don't 
> dounbt Monty's team is doing good things with MariaDB. The question's 
> when there'll be enough hosting providers offering MariaDB-MySQL 
> interchangeability to support a large exodus from MySQL, and whether 
> there's a compelling business reason for many people who depend on 
> MySQL to switch to MariaDB.
>
> 1. There is no cost to hosting providers to switch to MariaDB if it 
> maintains compatibility, short of actually installing it. I honestly 
> doubt most of them pay MySQL for support, but that's my guesstimation 
> anyhow.

Agreed, no cost, Just another product to maintain. When that's a 
database, it's not trivial. They'll do it only when demand demands, I 
ween. And I don't see that demand yet.

>
> 2. That's the beauty of open source. It can go either way. Unlike in 
> the proprietary world, where you fear lawsuits all the time, there is 
> little Oracle can do so long as MariaDB sticks with the GPL license. 
> It all comes down to mindshare. It has happened plenty of times before 
> in the open source world. I don't have the power to predict the 
> future, but there's no reason why it can't happen again. Especially if 
> MariaDB keeps plowing ahead and adding more features that developers 
> like and MySQL keeps stagnating, as it has been for a while.

I too wish Monty could soon slay the closed source, profit-crazed beast.

It just doesn't seem to be happening. Indeed after a good start (13% in 
Oct 2011), MariaDB's market share growth seems to have stalled. Again, I 
suspect hosting provider inertia.

For me the question's pragmatic: at what level of market share growth 
can we expect to sell a lot more books if we cover MariaDB?

>
> 3. It is possible that Oracle will see movement to MariaDB as a kick 
> up the arse and get their act together. I haven't really seen that 
> yet, but anything is possible.

Larry's ass is too well protected.

PB

-----


From john at winhaven.net  Sat Feb  9 20:42:29 2013
From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow)
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2013 20:42:29 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] Server security software
Message-ID: <002301ce0738$455a4570$d00ed050$@winhaven.net>

Hi All,

Setting up a new Server with SBS 2011. In the past I have not used the same
security software on a server as the workstations just because it gives a
second check on the files. What do you all thin and what security software
do you have on your Windows servers?

 

Not so sure a double check on the files matters that much anymore. With
scam-ware and phish bate being the biggest threat I see it seems to be more
about user training. My experience with Vipre security software shows that
it has seemly caught up, and is staying abreast, of new file infections.
What do you all think?

 

John B

 



From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk  Sun Feb 10 02:45:02 2013
From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid)
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 08:45:02 +0000
Subject: [dba-Tech] SharePoint, Access, InfoPath
Message-ID: <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB082959C4D1B9110@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk>

Arthur

Access. You can link db to a SharePoint list, typical back end front. List on server front end access.

If you have SharePoint enterprise you get access services. You an use access to build or convert to a web database which runs in SharePoint. No VBA basically JavaScript and html. Also convert non dbs to web database.

You can open large lusts from SharePoint in access for reporting and queries. This actually creates a new linked db for you.

You can mix local tables with attached lists on SharePoint.

You can save a database fir storage in SharePoint.

InfoPath. Electronic forms to which you can add database connections. For example a leave request, sick form etc etc

Everything I. SharePoint is a list.
back end is SQL server.

Martin


Sent from my Windows Phone
________________________________
From: Arthur Fuller
Sent: 09/02/2013 23:57
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: [dba-Tech] SharePoint, Access, InfoPath

Even after reading a couple of overviews, I still remain a little (a lot?)
vague on how these components. From what I can see, SharePoint as sort of
portal within an organization, and may contain any number of folders and
documents and Access databases and something called SharePoint lists,
whatever they may be.

During a quick visit to a colleague's office, I got a quick glance at an
InfoPath front end which appeared to be talking to an Access back end. The
InfoPath forms looked a lot more like typical documents than like
traditional Access forms. I was told that everyone in the organization had
access to InfoPath, and gathered that part of doing things this way was to
facilitating document sharing and workflow; that instead of a bunch of
emails sent back and forth with attached documents, that this approach
provided a single source for the current revision of any document.

It has been said repeatedly on this list and/or our AccessD list that
SharePoint will not accept an Access db that contains VBA code (or perhaps
will accept it but not be able to execute any VBA contained therein.
Although I have InfoPath 2007 installed, I don't think I have fired it up
more than once, if that, so I have no inkling as to its capabilities and
limitations. Could it be that SharePoint will accept InfoPath forms
containing code, but not Access forms?

I ask anyone with knowledge of these three products working together to
offer an overview and any additional things that would help me grasp this
technology stack. (Such as, given that an Access db lives somewhere in
SharePoint, how did it get there in the first place, and assuming that it
subsequently evolves - new table or query added, etc. - how is it updated?
I sure hope that structural changes are not performed on the production
version of the Access db.

Thanks for any light you can shed.

--
Arthur
Cell: 647.710.1314

Prediction is difficult, especially of the future.
  -- Niels Bohr
_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

From fuller.artful at gmail.com  Sun Feb 10 04:34:51 2013
From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller)
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 05:34:51 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] SharePoint, Access, InfoPath
In-Reply-To: <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB082959C4D1B9110@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk>
References: <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB082959C4D1B9110@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <CAEPJO1h6pfRrghZeQnTXyT2va8zk4QQHYYVTFZfFNcEJo_2XuA@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks, Martin. That gives me something to chew on. Follwup questions:

Access 2007+ dbs support attachments and multi-value fields. What happens
to these in SharePoint?

What would guide your choice between Access and InfoPath as a front end?

A.

From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Sun Feb 10 05:06:42 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 15:06:42 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech] =?utf-8?q?The_Windows_Surface_Pro?=
In-Reply-To: <31FE81F5-463C-4018-8DC0-5B53BAE13394@phulse.com>
References: <01da01ce0488$a1871150$e49533f0$@cactus.dk>
	<76F1DD1F75BE4F438FDEF9EC5267A1A1@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<31FE81F5-463C-4018-8DC0-5B53BAE13394@phulse.com>
Message-ID: <1360494402.653068064@f377.i.mail.ru>

 Hi Hans --

You count me as the only one "consistent MS IE 100 defender" here? :)

I can't find PeaceKeeper detailed tests results - do they exist?

As for the other tests - I have posted them here already for?ASUS N76Vz (notebook model similar to http://www.amazon.com/dp/B007Z9EB0O). According to that tests IE 10 is as good as or better than Chrome 24 for JavaScript/DOM tests but not as good as Chrome 24 for ai, imaging and audio tests.?

===================================
SunSpider 0.9.1 (smaller is better)
====================================
Chrome 24 - 265
IE 10 - 165
IE 10 "beats" Chrome in all tests: 3d, access, bitops, controflow, crypto, date, math, regexp, string.
================================
kraken-1.1 (smaller is better)
================================
Chrome 24 - 3386
IE 10 - 7432
Chrome 24 "beats" IE 10 in ai, audio, imaging tests.
json and stanford tests have nearly the same results.
===============================
PeaceKeeper (bigger is better)
===============================
Chrome 24 - 3186
IE 10 - 1666
Thank you.

-- Shamil

???????,  8 ??????? 2013, 13:45 -08:00 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen <hans.andersen at phulse.com>:
>I gave Shamil a few suggestions. I don't have them all on hand, but there is Peacekeeper from futuremark, as an example.
>
>- Hans
>
>
>On 2013-02-08, at 9:25 AM, "Jim Lawrence" < accessd at shaw.ca > wrote:
>
>> Hi Hans:
>> 
>> This discussion has been going back and forth for quite a while and everyone
>> can point to dramatic results. One shows that IE10 has superior results to
>> Chrome and another shows Chrome has far superior results to IE. 
>> 
>> Which one is correct? Which result can be trusted or at least deemed
>> impartial? Where would/could these internet performance tests be made?
>> 
>> So where is this independent, unaffiliated benchmarking tool and what are
>> the results?
>> 
>> Jim
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From:  dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian
>> Andersen
>> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 6:25 PM
>> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The Windows Surface Pro
>> 
>> Hi Jim,
>> 
>> I wouldn't trust a benchmark from Mozilla blindly. You should test the
>> performance with an independent, unaffiliated benchmarking tool.
>> 
>> - Hans
>
><<<skipped >>>

From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Sun Feb 10 05:20:12 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 15:20:12 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech] =?utf-8?q?FYI=3A_Microsoft=E2=80=99s_128GB_Surface_Pro?=
 =?utf-8?q?_Sells_Out_At_MS_Online_Store_Just_Hours_After_Launch?=
Message-ID: <1360495212.146344839@f377.i.mail.ru>

 Hi All --

FYI:? http://techcrunch.com/2013/02/09/microsofts-128gb-surface-pro-sells-out-at-ms-online-store-just-hours-after-launch/

Thank you.

-- SHamil



From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Sun Feb 10 05:57:28 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 15:57:28 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech]
 =?utf-8?q?FYI=3A_Microsoft=E2=80=99s_128GB_Surface_Pro?=
 =?utf-8?q?_Sells_Out_At_MS_Online_Store_Just_Hours_After_Launch?=
In-Reply-To: <1360495212.146344839@f377.i.mail.ru>
References: <1360495212.146344839@f377.i.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <1360497448.561824123@f364.mail.ru>

 Additionally: 

MS Surface Pro review from TechCrunch:

"The Microsoft Surface Pro Proves That The PC Is?Back"

http://techcrunch.com/2013/02/05/microsoft-surface-pro-review/
-- Shamil


???????????, 10 ??????? 2013, 15:20 +04:00 ?? Salakhetdinov Shamil <mcp2004 at mail.ru>:
>Hi All --
>
>FYI:?  http://techcrunch.com/2013/02/09/microsofts-128gb-surface-pro-sells-out-at-ms-online-store-just-hours-after-launch/
>
>Thank you.
>
>-- SHamil
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>dba-Tech mailing list
>dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>Website:  http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From hans.andersen at phulse.com  Sun Feb 10 07:24:00 2013
From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen)
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 05:24:00 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech]
 =?windows-1252?q?FYI=3A_Microsoft=92s_128GB_Surface_Pr?=
 =?windows-1252?q?o_Sells_Out_At_MS_Online_Store_Just_Hours_After_Launch?=
In-Reply-To: <1360497448.561824123@f364.mail.ru>
References: <1360495212.146344839@f377.i.mail.ru>
	<1360497448.561824123@f364.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <5A27A55F-70BA-48C9-AC04-056FE46B1689@phulse.com>


How is anyone supposed to take this reviewer seriously when he says absurd nonsense such as the following?

> Even Minecraft, that paragon of high-performance gaming, ran beautifully.

> To those who snicker at Win8 in general I will say this: this is the direction in which Microsoft is going,  and to deride it is tantamount to hindering progress. To use a musical analogy,  those who wish that Jamiroquai would return to the glory of Virtual Insanity will be gravely disappointed and the only way forward for a fan of Jay Kay or Em Ess is to accept that change is inevitable.

For those of you unfamiliar with Minecraft, this is the game he is referring to: http://www.divergeuk.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/minecraft1.jpeg

Where did this reviewer graduate from - the MTV school of tech journalism? Are things going downhill at TechCrunch or is this just search engine optimised review spam?

- Hans








On 2013-02-10, at 3:57 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil <mcp2004 at mail.ru> wrote:

> Additionally: 
> 
> MS Surface Pro review from TechCrunch:
> 
> "The Microsoft Surface Pro Proves That The PC Is Back"
> 
> http://techcrunch.com/2013/02/05/microsoft-surface-pro-review/
> -- Shamil
> 
> 
> ???????????, 10 ??????? 2013, 15:20 +04:00 ?? Salakhetdinov Shamil <mcp2004 at mail.ru>:
>> Hi All --
>> 
>> FYI:   http://techcrunch.com/2013/02/09/microsofts-128gb-surface-pro-sells-out-at-ms-online-store-just-hours-after-launch/
>> 
>> Thank you.
>> 
>> -- SHamil
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> dba-Tech mailing list
>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>> Website:  http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From Gustav at cactus.dk  Sun Feb 10 07:45:27 2013
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 14:45:27 +0100
Subject: [dba-Tech] Server security software
Message-ID: <s117b2aa.038@cactus.dk>

Hi John

We run nothing. Workstations, however, run MSE, and users are well behaving, and servers are behind firewalls.
More importantly, we run a powerful spamfilter as spam ratio - after a quiet period - is up again in the 80-85% ratio.

/gustav

>>> john at winhaven.net 10-02-13 3:42 >>>
Hi All,

Setting up a new Server with SBS 2011. In the past I have not used the same
security software on a server as the workstations just because it gives a
second check on the files. What do you all thin and what security software
do you have on your Windows servers?

 

Not so sure a double check on the files matters that much anymore. With
scam-ware and phish bate being the biggest threat I see it seems to be more
about user training. My experience with Vipre security software shows that
it has seemly caught up, and is staying abreast, of new file infections.
What do you all think?

 

John B


From hans.andersen at phulse.com  Sun Feb 10 07:46:08 2013
From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen)
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 05:46:08 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech]  Smartphone operating systems: The rise of Android,
	the fall of Windows
In-Reply-To: <5A27A55F-70BA-48C9-AC04-056FE46B1689@phulse.com>
References: <1360495212.146344839@f377.i.mail.ru>
	<1360497448.561824123@f364.mail.ru>
	<5A27A55F-70BA-48C9-AC04-056FE46B1689@phulse.com>
Message-ID: <B1C08D1E-4DDF-4D40-B33C-D536A05CB17D@phulse.com>

Smartphone operating systems: The rise of Android, the fall of Windows

http://www.zdnet.com/smartphone-operating-systems-the-rise-of-android-the-fall-of-windows-7000011004/

I wonder if Microsoft would have luck just staying the course or not. After all, Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8 are siblings. I can't imagine one being successful without the other.

- Hans

From hans.andersen at phulse.com  Sun Feb 10 08:08:51 2013
From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen)
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 06:08:51 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] The Windows Surface Pro
In-Reply-To: <1360494402.653068064@f377.i.mail.ru>
References: <01da01ce0488$a1871150$e49533f0$@cactus.dk>
	<76F1DD1F75BE4F438FDEF9EC5267A1A1@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<31FE81F5-463C-4018-8DC0-5B53BAE13394@phulse.com>
	<1360494402.653068064@f377.i.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <8E57E8C2-F932-42B3-93F4-0C9550803A21@phulse.com>


Hi Shamil,

> You count me as the only one "consistent MS IE 100 defender" here? :)

I would say everyone here is slightly more bias towards Microsoft than the average user (with the exception of Arthur and Jim perhaps), however, forgive me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that yourself and Gustav are certainly two of the most staunch supporters of IE and Microsoft in general. Would that be a fair assessment? :)

- Hans


On 2013-02-10, at 3:06 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil <mcp2004 at mail.ru> wrote:

> Hi Hans --
> 
> You count me as the only one "consistent MS IE 100 defender" here? :)
> 
> I can't find PeaceKeeper detailed tests results - do they exist?
> 
> As for the other tests - I have posted them here already for ASUS N76Vz (notebook model similar to http://www.amazon.com/dp/B007Z9EB0O). According to that tests IE 10 is as good as or better than Chrome 24 for JavaScript/DOM tests but not as good as Chrome 24 for ai, imaging and audio tests. 
> 
> ===================================
> SunSpider 0.9.1 (smaller is better)
> ====================================
> Chrome 24 - 265
> IE 10 - 165
> IE 10 "beats" Chrome in all tests: 3d, access, bitops, controflow, crypto, date, math, regexp, string.
> ================================
> kraken-1.1 (smaller is better)
> ================================
> Chrome 24 - 3386
> IE 10 - 7432
> Chrome 24 "beats" IE 10 in ai, audio, imaging tests.
> json and stanford tests have nearly the same results.
> ===============================
> PeaceKeeper (bigger is better)
> ===============================
> Chrome 24 - 3186
> IE 10 - 1666
> Thank you.
> 
> -- Shamil
> 
> ???????,  8 ??????? 2013, 13:45 -08:00 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen <hans.andersen at phulse.com>:
>> I gave Shamil a few suggestions. I don't have them all on hand, but there is Peacekeeper from futuremark, as an example.
>> 
>> - Hans
>> 
>> 
>> On 2013-02-08, at 9:25 AM, "Jim Lawrence" < accessd at shaw.ca > wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Hans:
>>> 
>>> This discussion has been going back and forth for quite a while and everyone
>>> can point to dramatic results. One shows that IE10 has superior results to
>>> Chrome and another shows Chrome has far superior results to IE. 
>>> 
>>> Which one is correct? Which result can be trusted or at least deemed
>>> impartial? Where would/could these internet performance tests be made?
>>> 
>>> So where is this independent, unaffiliated benchmarking tool and what are
>>> the results?
>>> 
>>> Jim
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From:  dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>>> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian
>>> Andersen
>>> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 6:25 PM
>>> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>>> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The Windows Surface Pro
>>> 
>>> Hi Jim,
>>> 
>>> I wouldn't trust a benchmark from Mozilla blindly. You should test the
>>> performance with an independent, unaffiliated benchmarking tool.
>>> 
>>> - Hans
>> 
>> <<<skipped >>>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk  Sun Feb 10 08:10:25 2013
From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid)
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 14:10:25 +0000
Subject: [dba-Tech] SharePoint, Access, InfoPath
In-Reply-To: <CAEPJO1h6pfRrghZeQnTXyT2va8zk4QQHYYVTFZfFNcEJo_2XuA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB082959C4D1B9110@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk>
	<CAEPJO1h6pfRrghZeQnTXyT2va8zk4QQHYYVTFZfFNcEJo_2XuA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A8534EB1-A051-453D-9C1A-9C9CFE3DADA7@qub.ac.uk>

Arthur

It supports them because of Sharepoint. They are Sharepoint columns

Access but infopath has a role for electronic forms. Eg student calls in, put in student number and populate part of form with their details from student system. Complete form and submit.

Martin



Sent from my iPad

On 10 Feb 2013, at 10:35, "Arthur Fuller" <fuller.artful at gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks, Martin. That gives me something to chew on. Follwup questions:
> 
> Access 2007+ dbs support attachments and multi-value fields. What happens
> to these in SharePoint?
> 
> What would guide your choice between Access and InfoPath as a front end?
> 
> A.
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From john at winhaven.net  Sun Feb 10 09:52:34 2013
From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow)
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 09:52:34 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] Server security software
In-Reply-To: <s117b2aa.038@cactus.dk>
References: <s117b2aa.038@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <006601ce07a6$a494bde0$edbe39a0$@winhaven.net>

Hi Gustav,
Thanks for the response. Unfortunately my client's users aren't so well
behaved :-(

Are you using Exchange for email? I've noticed the jump in spam again. May I
ask which spam filter you are using?

John B

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2013 7:45 AM
To: dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Server security software

Hi John

We run nothing. Workstations, however, run MSE, and users are well behaving,
and servers are behind firewalls.
More importantly, we run a powerful spamfilter as spam ratio - after a quiet
period - is up again in the 80-85% ratio.

/gustav

>>> john at winhaven.net 10-02-13 3:42 >>>
Hi All,

Setting up a new Server with SBS 2011. In the past I have not used the same
security software on a server as the workstations just because it gives a
second check on the files. What do you all thin and what security software
do you have on your Windows servers?

 

Not so sure a double check on the files matters that much anymore. With
scam-ware and phish bate being the biggest threat I see it seems to be more
about user training. My experience with Vipre security software shows that
it has seemly caught up, and is staying abreast, of new file infections.
What do you all think?

 

John B

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Sun Feb 10 09:59:32 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 19:59:32 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech] =?utf-8?q?The_Windows_Surface_Pro?=
In-Reply-To: <8E57E8C2-F932-42B3-93F4-0C9550803A21@phulse.com>
References: <01da01ce0488$a1871150$e49533f0$@cactus.dk>
	<1360494402.653068064@f377.i.mail.ru>
	<8E57E8C2-F932-42B3-93F4-0C9550803A21@phulse.com>
Message-ID: <1360511972.516995753@f340.mail.ru>

 Hi Hans --

Gustav can definitely answer by himself is he a "staunch supporter of IE and Microsoft" in general or not. :)

<<<
Would that be a fair assessment? :)
>>>
As for me - your assessment isn't quite right I suppose.
As I have already noted in one of the threads here quoting John Bartow: "I'm not pro-Microsoft and I'm not anti-Microsoft".  I'm making most of my income developing custom software using their products. "Making income by using MS software development products" and posting here news on MS?technologies?doesn't mean (for me) ?that I'm their "staunch supporter": it just have happened I have started to use mainly MS software for development after I have used a lot of other companies software. It may well happen I can switch out of MS dev. tools to use something else. But not nowadays.

In my posting you've quoted? I have asked you a question about PeaceKeeper tests details: "I'm missing PeaceKeeper?tests details -?are they available?"
Another question: "Do you see that that SunSpider and Kraken tests do not show any advantage of running Chrome 24 over IE 10 when using JavaScript? Even more IE 10 seems to be doing better than Chrome 24 in SunSpider JavaScript tests?"

Thank you.

-- Shamil

???????????, 10 ??????? 2013, 6:08 -08:00 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen <hans.andersen at phulse.com>:
>
>Hi Shamil,
>
>> You count me as the only one "consistent MS IE 100 defender" here? :)
>
>I would say everyone here is slightly more bias towards Microsoft than the average user (with the exception of Arthur and Jim perhaps), however, forgive me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that yourself and Gustav are certainly two of the most staunch supporters of IE and Microsoft in general. Would that be a fair assessment? :)
>
>- Hans
>
>
>On 2013-02-10, at 3:06 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil < mcp2004 at mail.ru > wrote:
>
>> Hi Hans --
>> 
>> You count me as the only one "consistent MS IE 100 defender" here? :)
>> 
>> I can't find PeaceKeeper detailed tests results - do they exist?
>> 
>> As for the other tests - I have posted them here already for ASUS N76Vz (notebook model similar to  http://www.amazon.com/dp/B007Z9EB0O ). According to that tests IE 10 is as good as or better than Chrome 24 for JavaScript/DOM tests but not as good as Chrome 24 for ai, imaging and audio tests. 
>> 
>> ===================================
>> SunSpider 0.9.1 (smaller is better)
>> ====================================
>> Chrome 24 - 265
>> IE 10 - 165
>> IE 10 "beats" Chrome in all tests: 3d, access, bitops, controflow, crypto, date, math, regexp, string.
>> ================================
>> kraken-1.1 (smaller is better)
>> ================================
>> Chrome 24 - 3386
>> IE 10 - 7432
>> Chrome 24 "beats" IE 10 in ai, audio, imaging tests.
>> json and stanford tests have nearly the same results.
>> ===============================
>> PeaceKeeper (bigger is better)
>> ===============================
>> Chrome 24 - 3186
>> IE 10 - 1666
>> Thank you.
>> 
>> -- Shamil
>>?

From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Sun Feb 10 10:45:14 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 20:45:14 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech]
 =?utf-8?q?FYI=3A_Microsoft=E2=80=99s_128GB_Surface_Pro?=
 =?utf-8?q?_Sells_Out_At_MS_Online_Store_Just_Hours_After_Launch?=
In-Reply-To: <5A27A55F-70BA-48C9-AC04-056FE46B1689@phulse.com>
References: <1360495212.146344839@f377.i.mail.ru>
	<1360497448.561824123@f364.mail.ru>
	<5A27A55F-70BA-48C9-AC04-056FE46B1689@phulse.com>
Message-ID: <1360514714.533249454@f270.mail.ru>

 Hi Hans --

May I note that the current MineCraft version the kids are playing is 1.4.7? (My son (11 years old) is just playing it with his friend(s) via Internet, they are also using/tuning Hamachi to connect PCs/MineCraft game's sessions as far as I'm hearing from their dialogs.)

Of course Minecraft isn't a super-graphics-heavy game (and I suppose review's author doesn't mean it's) but AFAIK Minecraft 1.4.7 doesn't run in its full fine tuned graphics mode on several years old rather powerful notebooks, and it "makes hot" DELL Inspiron 9400 (3GB/Win7) after just about an hour of play.

Following your argumentation style may I note that if you're questioning quoted review's authors technical education level by posting not the last MineCraft version screenshot, should your argumentation be counted as convincing?

Thank you.

-- Shamil

???????????, 10 ??????? 2013, 5:24 -08:00 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen <hans.andersen at phulse.com>:
>
>How is anyone supposed to take this reviewer seriously when he says absurd nonsense such as the following?
>
>> Even Minecraft, that paragon of high-performance gaming, ran beautifully.
>
>> To those who snicker at Win8 in general I will say this: this is the direction in which Microsoft is going,  and to deride it is tantamount to hindering progress. To use a musical analogy,  those who wish that Jamiroquai would return to the glory of Virtual Insanity will be gravely disappointed and the only way forward for a fan of Jay Kay or Em Ess is to accept that change is inevitable.
>
>For those of you unfamiliar with Minecraft, this is the game he is referring to:  http://www.divergeuk.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/minecraft1.jpeg
>
>Where did this reviewer graduate from - the MTV school of tech journalism? Are things going downhill at TechCrunch or is this just search engine optimised review spam?
>
>- Hans
>
>
>
>On 2013-02-10, at 3:57 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil < mcp2004 at mail.ru > wrote:
>
>> Additionally: 
>> 
>> MS Surface Pro review from TechCrunch:
>> 
>> "The Microsoft Surface Pro Proves That The PC Is Back"
>> 
>>  http://techcrunch.com/2013/02/05/microsoft-surface-pro-review/
>> -- Shamil
>> 
>> 
>> ???????????, 10 ??????? 2013, 15:20 +04:00 ?? Salakhetdinov Shamil < mcp2004 at mail.ru >:
>>> Hi All --
>>> 
>>> FYI:  http://techcrunch.com/2013/02/09/microsofts-128gb-surface-pro-sells-out-at-ms-online-store-just-hours-after-launch/
>>> 
>>> Thank you.
>>> 
>>> -- SHamil
>>> 
>


From accessd at shaw.ca  Sun Feb 10 11:46:58 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 09:46:58 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Server security software
In-Reply-To: <002301ce0738$455a4570$d00ed050$@winhaven.net>
References: <002301ce0738$455a4570$d00ed050$@winhaven.net>
Message-ID: <D5F2E0B5BA2A4C9C942156C47AFC2492@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi John:

I think Vipre will catch "most" of those baddys, I use it all the time on
servers but those users need their training (this is in lue of taking one of
their worse offenders from the staff and providing a ritual execution at the
back of the business...last victim we had to do was the office
manager...grizzly affair).

OTOH, SBS should be outlawed but in the short term it will provide you with
a lot of work until the owner decides you are incompetent or gives up and
personalizes your own coffee cup. Its "always-updating" functionality can be
a nightmare and if you are also installing a database watch out...especially
if you decide to take advantage of the MS SQL Server; throw Exchange in the
mix and you will suffer. (Ask Steve Erbach's wife what she thinks of the
product.)

Good luck John.
Jim  

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2013 6:42 PM
To: DBA-Tech
Subject: [dba-Tech] Server security software

Hi All,

Setting up a new Server with SBS 2011. In the past I have not used the same
security software on a server as the workstations just because it gives a
second check on the files. What do you all thin and what security software
do you have on your Windows servers?

 

Not so sure a double check on the files matters that much anymore. With
scam-ware and phish bate being the biggest threat I see it seems to be more
about user training. My experience with Vipre security software shows that
it has seemly caught up, and is staying abreast, of new file infections.
What do you all think?

 

John B

 


_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From accessd at shaw.ca  Sun Feb 10 11:56:08 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 09:56:08 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech]
	=?iso-8859-1?q?FYI=3A_Microsoft=27s_128GB_Surface_Pro_?=
	=?iso-8859-1?q?Sells_Out_At_MS_Online_Store_Just_Hours_After_Launc?=
	=?iso-8859-1?q?h?=
In-Reply-To: <1360495212.146344839@f377.i.mail.ru>
References: <1360495212.146344839@f377.i.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <575E75C6896B4E44A3FEAC540A94FA5C@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Shamil:

Microsoft has been waiting a long time for good news...this might be the
"turn of the corner" news they have been waiting for.

I think the 128GB model is their best option.

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov
Shamil
Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2013 3:20 AM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: [dba-Tech] FYI: Microsoft?s 128GB Surface Pro Sells Out At MS
Online Store Just Hours After Launch

 Hi All --

FYI:?
http://techcrunch.com/2013/02/09/microsofts-128gb-surface-pro-sells-out-at-m
s-online-store-just-hours-after-launch/

Thank you.

-- SHamil


_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From accessd at shaw.ca  Sun Feb 10 12:00:48 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 10:00:48 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] =?koi8-r?b?RllJOiBNaWNyb3NvZnQncyAxMjhHQiBTdXJmYWNl?=
	=?koi8-r?b?IFBybyBTZWxscyBPdXQgQXQgTVMgT25saW5lIFN0b3JlIEp1c3Qg?=
	=?koi8-r?b?SG91cnMgQWZ0ZXIgTGF1bmNo?=
In-Reply-To: <5A27A55F-70BA-48C9-AC04-056FE46B1689@phulse.com>
References: <1360495212.146344839@f377.i.mail.ru><1360497448.561824123@f364.mail.ru>
	<5A27A55F-70BA-48C9-AC04-056FE46B1689@phulse.com>
Message-ID: <78269C60C699493EBFF1453FAB44E474@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Hans:

Minecraft runs great anywhere except maybe on your old Smartphone (with its
very low resolution graphics). I wonder how "After-Life" and "Call for Duty"
runs on this laptop? ;-) 

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian
Andersen
Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2013 5:24 AM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] FYI: Microsoft's 128GB Surface Pro Sells Out At MS
Online Store Just Hours After Launch


How is anyone supposed to take this reviewer seriously when he says absurd
nonsense such as the following?

> Even Minecraft, that paragon of high-performance gaming, ran beautifully.

> To those who snicker at Win8 in general I will say this: this is the
direction in which Microsoft is going,  and to deride it is tantamount to
hindering progress. To use a musical analogy,  those who wish that
Jamiroquai would return to the glory of Virtual Insanity will be gravely
disappointed and the only way forward for a fan of Jay Kay or Em Ess is to
accept that change is inevitable.

For those of you unfamiliar with Minecraft, this is the game he is referring
to: http://www.divergeuk.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/minecraft1.jpeg

Where did this reviewer graduate from - the MTV school of tech journalism?
Are things going downhill at TechCrunch or is this just search engine
optimised review spam?

- Hans








On 2013-02-10, at 3:57 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil <mcp2004 at mail.ru> wrote:

> Additionally: 
> 
> MS Surface Pro review from TechCrunch:
> 
> "The Microsoft Surface Pro Proves That The PC Is Back"
> 
> http://techcrunch.com/2013/02/05/microsoft-surface-pro-review/
> -- Shamil
> 
> 
> ???????????, 10 ??????? 2013, 15:20 +04:00 ?? Salakhetdinov Shamil
<mcp2004 at mail.ru>:
>> Hi All --
>> 
>> FYI:
http://techcrunch.com/2013/02/09/microsofts-128gb-surface-pro-sells-out-at-m
s-online-store-just-hours-after-launch/
>> 
>> Thank you.
>> 
>> -- SHamil
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> dba-Tech mailing list
>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>> Website:  http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From john at winhaven.net  Sun Feb 10 12:01:23 2013
From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow)
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 12:01:23 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] Server security software
In-Reply-To: <D5F2E0B5BA2A4C9C942156C47AFC2492@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <002301ce0738$455a4570$d00ed050$@winhaven.net>
	<D5F2E0B5BA2A4C9C942156C47AFC2492@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <008101ce07b8$a392b200$eab81600$@winhaven.net>

Thanks Jim. As I said to a customer Friday afternoon "there's a reason I'm
called a consultant and not a commandant".
;-)

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence
Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2013 11:47 AM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Server security software

Hi John:

I think Vipre will catch "most" of those baddys, I use it all the time on
servers but those users need their training (this is in lue of taking one of
their worse offenders from the staff and providing a ritual execution at the
back of the business...last victim we had to do was the office
manager...grizzly affair).

OTOH, SBS should be outlawed but in the short term it will provide you with
a lot of work until the owner decides you are incompetent or gives up and
personalizes your own coffee cup. Its "always-updating" functionality can be
a nightmare and if you are also installing a database watch out...especially
if you decide to take advantage of the MS SQL Server; throw Exchange in the
mix and you will suffer. (Ask Steve Erbach's wife what she thinks of the
product.)

Good luck John.
Jim  

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2013 6:42 PM
To: DBA-Tech
Subject: [dba-Tech] Server security software

Hi All,

Setting up a new Server with SBS 2011. In the past I have not used the same
security software on a server as the workstations just because it gives a
second check on the files. What do you all thin and what security software
do you have on your Windows servers?

 

Not so sure a double check on the files matters that much anymore. With
scam-ware and phish bate being the biggest threat I see it seems to be more
about user training. My experience with Vipre security software shows that
it has seemly caught up, and is staying abreast, of new file infections.
What do you all think?

 

John B

 


_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From accessd at shaw.ca  Sun Feb 10 12:36:29 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 10:36:29 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] The Windows Surface Pro
In-Reply-To: <1360494402.653068064@f377.i.mail.ru>
References: <01da01ce0488$a1871150$e49533f0$@cactus.dk><76F1DD1F75BE4F438FDEF9EC5267A1A1@creativesystemdesigns.com><31FE81F5-463C-4018-8DC0-5B53BAE13394@phulse.com>
	<1360494402.653068064@f377.i.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <65057E53CBF3409483E2CA9E06F50813@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Shamil:

I have nothing against IE, personally. 

OTOH, technically, the last few versions of IE (7 to 9) have been disasters
and I am sure you, who would have had to build websites with these products
will agree.

IE10, seems head and shoulders above it predecessors. It appears that
Microsoft is finally, trying to follow the industry standards but
unfortunately, the court of public opinion is still out on IE and it will be
years before IE is viewed as serious contender...A browser from which code
can be written once and run everywhere...without major issues.

As for the suggested browser performance; that has not been my or my
client's assessment but I take page performance as a whole (with a
collection of graphics, program and font libraries, multiple CSS directories
and server calls) and have not run separate tests. (I currently only use
Chrome tools for testing which suggests a prejudice and of course only runs
on/in Chrome.) 

But I will do, an impartial test, as soon as possible, maybe later this week
when a quiet evening arises and will post the results.

Jim

PS Do you have a copy of MS IE 100 that I could share?

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov
Shamil
Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2013 3:07 AM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The Windows Surface Pro

 Hi Hans --

You count me as the only one "consistent MS IE 100 defender" here? :)

I can't find PeaceKeeper detailed tests results - do they exist?

As for the other tests - I have posted them here already for?ASUS N76Vz
(notebook model similar to http://www.amazon.com/dp/B007Z9EB0O). According
to that tests IE 10 is as good as or better than Chrome 24 for
JavaScript/DOM tests but not as good as Chrome 24 for ai, imaging and audio
tests.?

===================================
SunSpider 0.9.1 (smaller is better)
====================================
Chrome 24 - 265
IE 10 - 165
IE 10 "beats" Chrome in all tests: 3d, access, bitops, controflow, crypto,
date, math, regexp, string.
================================
kraken-1.1 (smaller is better)
================================
Chrome 24 - 3386
IE 10 - 7432
Chrome 24 "beats" IE 10 in ai, audio, imaging tests.
json and stanford tests have nearly the same results.
===============================
PeaceKeeper (bigger is better)
===============================
Chrome 24 - 3186
IE 10 - 1666
Thank you.

-- Shamil

???????,  8 ??????? 2013, 13:45 -08:00 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen
<hans.andersen at phulse.com>:
>I gave Shamil a few suggestions. I don't have them all on hand, but there
is Peacekeeper from futuremark, as an example.
>
>- Hans
>
>
>On 2013-02-08, at 9:25 AM, "Jim Lawrence" < accessd at shaw.ca > wrote:
>
>> Hi Hans:
>> 
>> This discussion has been going back and forth for quite a while and
everyone
>> can point to dramatic results. One shows that IE10 has superior results
to
>> Chrome and another shows Chrome has far superior results to IE. 
>> 
>> Which one is correct? Which result can be trusted or at least deemed
>> impartial? Where would/could these internet performance tests be made?
>> 
>> So where is this independent, unaffiliated benchmarking tool and what are
>> the results?
>> 
>> Jim
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From:  dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
Hans-Christian
>> Andersen
>> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 6:25 PM
>> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The Windows Surface Pro
>> 
>> Hi Jim,
>> 
>> I wouldn't trust a benchmark from Mozilla blindly. You should test the
>> performance with an independent, unaffiliated benchmarking tool.
>> 
>> - Hans
>
><<<skipped >>>
_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From accessd at shaw.ca  Sun Feb 10 12:48:10 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 10:48:10 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Smartphone operating systems: The rise of Android,
	the fall of Windows
In-Reply-To: <B1C08D1E-4DDF-4D40-B33C-D536A05CB17D@phulse.com>
References: <1360495212.146344839@f377.i.mail.ru><1360497448.561824123@f364.mail.ru><5A27A55F-70BA-48C9-AC04-056FE46B1689@phulse.com>
	<B1C08D1E-4DDF-4D40-B33C-D536A05CB17D@phulse.com>
Message-ID: <E811CE00C0734269AD0EA9DA0AB5835D@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Hans:

As for the Smartphone market, it is too soon to know for sure. 

Even if a phone only captures a small percentage of the market it does not
mean the owner is going broke; it just means their profits are in the
million not billions.

I like the summary from article link, you posted...but I have always
favoured non-aligned products and a market filled with plenty of choices:

"...If there's going to be a number three Smartphone platform with some life
to it, I see it coming from the various Linux distributions giving the
Smartphone a try. The new and coming contenders for third place in 2013 will
be Firefox OS, Sailfish OS, Tizen, and Ubuntu. 

Of this quartet of contenders for third, I like Ubuntu the best. Now that we
know that Ubuntu phones will be shipping this year, I feel much better about
its chances. Behind Ubuntu, Firefox OS -- which will shortly be shipping on
its first two phones -- is my dark horse..."

Jim 

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian
Andersen
Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2013 5:46 AM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: [dba-Tech] Smartphone operating systems: The rise of Android,the
fall of Windows

Smartphone operating systems: The rise of Android, the fall of Windows

http://www.zdnet.com/smartphone-operating-systems-the-rise-of-android-the-fa
ll-of-windows-7000011004/

I wonder if Microsoft would have luck just staying the course or not. After
all, Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8 are siblings. I can't imagine one being
successful without the other.

- Hans
_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Sun Feb 10 12:59:45 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 22:59:45 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech] =?utf-8?q?The_Windows_Surface_Pro?=
In-Reply-To: <65057E53CBF3409483E2CA9E06F50813@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <01da01ce0488$a1871150$e49533f0$@cactus.dk>
	<1360494402.653068064@f377.i.mail.ru>
	<65057E53CBF3409483E2CA9E06F50813@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <1360522785.712157852@f333.mail.ru>

 Hi Jim --

I'm not against Chrome or FireFox or Opera or Safari... and I'm not pro-IE. In fact I'm using Google Chrome as my main development browser for a couple of the last years. Before that it was Firefox and before Firefox it was IE. And I'm even used Netscape a long ago. And before that I was proposed to try Mosaic but I didn't take the chance to use it.
And I'm currently considering to switch back to IE - so I'm running all that tests, which results I'm posting here to see has IE got back to mainstream (Web standards) and does IE performs as good as the browsers market leaders or not...

<<<
?I take page performance as a whole (with a
collection of graphics, program and font libraries
>>>
ASAIU the tests Hans proposed to run and which I have run belong to "stress-tests" - IMO they *shouldn't* be accepted as a whole as each part of that tests usually tests very specific feature: every part of that tests' results should be compared to get the "whole picture".

<<<
But I will do, an impartial test, as soon as possible, 
maybe later this week?when a quiet evening arises
and will post the results.
>>>
Thank you. I will be waiting for your tests results with interest.

<<<
PS Do you have a copy of MS IE 100 that I could share?
>>>
Jim, sorry I didn't get what "copy of MS IE 100" do you mean?

Thank you.

-- Shamil

???????????, 10 ??????? 2013, 10:36 -08:00 ?? "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca>:
>Hi Shamil:
>
>I have nothing against IE, personally. 
>
>OTOH, technically, the last few versions of IE (7 to 9) have been disasters
>and I am sure you, who would have had to build websites with these products
>will agree.
>
>IE10, seems head and shoulders above it predecessors. It appears that
>Microsoft is finally, trying to follow the industry standards but
>unfortunately, the court of public opinion is still out on IE and it will be
>years before IE is viewed as serious contender...A browser from which code
>can be written once and run everywhere...without major issues.
>
>As for the suggested browser performance; that has not been my or my
>client's assessment but I take page performance as a whole (with a
>collection of graphics, program and font libraries, multiple CSS directories
>and server calls) and have not run separate tests. (I currently only use
>Chrome tools for testing which suggests a prejudice and of course only runs
>on/in Chrome.) 
>
>But I will do, an impartial test, as soon as possible, maybe later this week
>when a quiet evening arises and will post the results.
>
>Jim
>
>PS Do you have a copy of MS IE 100 that I could share?
<<< skipped >>>
>

From accessd at shaw.ca  Sun Feb 10 13:12:02 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 11:12:02 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] The most important document
In-Reply-To: <008101ce07b8$a392b200$eab81600$@winhaven.net>
References: <002301ce0738$455a4570$d00ed050$@winhaven.net><D5F2E0B5BA2A4C9C942156C47AFC2492@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<008101ce07b8$a392b200$eab81600$@winhaven.net>
Message-ID: <9BE2232644904F0DA431DDB631D6978E@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi All:

It looks like the most progressive companies in the startup market are
clearly defining their working environment...which is built on a philosophy
that thrives on uncertainty, creativity, and trust. 

http://techcrunch.com/2013/01/31/read-what-facebooks-sandberg-calls-maybe-th
e-most-important-document-ever-to-come-out-of-the-valley/

Jim


From hans.andersen at phulse.com  Sun Feb 10 15:42:07 2013
From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen)
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 13:42:07 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech]
 =?utf-8?q?FYI=3A_Microsoft=E2=80=99s_128GB_Surface_Pro?=
 =?utf-8?q?_Sells_Out_At_MS_Online_Store_Just_Hours_After_Launch?=
In-Reply-To: <1360514714.533249454@f270.mail.ru>
References: <1360495212.146344839@f377.i.mail.ru>
	<1360497448.561824123@f364.mail.ru>
	<5A27A55F-70BA-48C9-AC04-056FE46B1689@phulse.com>
	<1360514714.533249454@f270.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <FAF981C4-CC4D-43E0-BB8B-86B8E1D7B42C@phulse.com>

Hi Shamil,

Actually, Minecraft can play quite fine on older hardware (few years old), but this assuming that the laptop isn't at the very low (cheap) end of that spectrum (for example, a net book).

> Of course Minecraft isn't a super-graphics-heavy game (and I suppose review's author doesn't mean it is)

I don't know about that. He did say very specifically that minecraft was the paragon of high performance gaming. I'm finding it hard to interpret it in any other way, unless he was being overly sarcastic, but if that was the case then perhaps other parts of the review was meant in a sarcastic way as well?

> and it "makes hot" DELL Inspiron 9400 (3GB/Win7) after just about an hour of play

In my experience, it doesn't take much to do that. Anything based on java will pretty much cause than to kick in eventually.

> > Following your argumentation style may I note that if you're questioning quoted review's authors technical education level by posting not the last MineCraft version screenshot, should your argumentation be counted as convincing?

No, because that is what Minecraft literally looks like. The company hasn't done anything to change the graphics since the start, as they are more focused on adding new blocks and gameplay. I know this, because I run a Minecraft server and regularly play Minecraft with friends of mine. It is possible for someone to improve the graphics by means of installing higher resolution textures and other graphics mods, but they are third party and not supported by Mojang (the company). If you don't believe me, just ask your kid.



Best regards,
Hans-Christian Andersen


On 10 Feb 2013, at 08:45, Salakhetdinov Shamil <mcp2004 at mail.ru> wrote:

> Hi Hans --
> 
> May I note that the current MineCraft version the kids are playing is 1.4.7? (My son (11 years old) is just playing it with his friend(s) via Internet, they are also using/tuning Hamachi to connect PCs/MineCraft game's sessions as far as I'm hearing from their dialogs.)
> 
> Of course Minecraft isn't a super-graphics-heavy game (and I suppose review's author doesn't mean it's) but AFAIK Minecraft 1.4.7 doesn't run in its full fine tuned graphics mode on several years old rather powerful notebooks, and it "makes hot" DELL Inspiron 9400 (3GB/Win7) after just about an hour of play.
> 
> Following your argumentation style may I note that if you're questioning quoted review's authors technical education level by posting not the last MineCraft version screenshot, should your argumentation be counted as convincing?
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> -- Shamil
> 
> ???????????, 10 ??????? 2013, 5:24 -08:00 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen <hans.andersen at phulse.com>:
>> 
>> How is anyone supposed to take this reviewer seriously when he says absurd nonsense such as the following?
>> 
>>> Even Minecraft, that paragon of high-performance gaming, ran beautifully.
>> 
>>> To those who snicker at Win8 in general I will say this: this is the direction in which Microsoft is going,  and to deride it is tantamount to hindering progress. To use a musical analogy,  those who wish that Jamiroquai would return to the glory of Virtual Insanity will be gravely disappointed and the only way forward for a fan of Jay Kay or Em Ess is to accept that change is inevitable.
>> 
>> For those of you unfamiliar with Minecraft, this is the game he is referring to:  http://www.divergeuk.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/minecraft1.jpeg
>> 
>> Where did this reviewer graduate from - the MTV school of tech journalism? Are things going downhill at TechCrunch or is this just search engine optimised review spam?
>> 
>> - Hans
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 2013-02-10, at 3:57 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil < mcp2004 at mail.ru > wrote:
>> 
>>> Additionally: 
>>> 
>>> MS Surface Pro review from TechCrunch:
>>> 
>>> "The Microsoft Surface Pro Proves That The PC Is Back"
>>> 
>>> http://techcrunch.com/2013/02/05/microsoft-surface-pro-review/
>>> -- Shamil
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ???????????, 10 ??????? 2013, 15:20 +04:00 ?? Salakhetdinov Shamil < mcp2004 at mail.ru >:
>>>> Hi All --
>>>> 
>>>> FYI:  http://techcrunch.com/2013/02/09/microsofts-128gb-surface-pro-sells-out-at-ms-online-store-just-hours-after-launch/
>>>> 
>>>> Thank you.
>>>> 
>>>> -- SHamil
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From gustav at cactus.dk  Sun Feb 10 15:43:00 2013
From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 22:43:00 +0100
Subject: [dba-Tech] The Windows Surface Pro
Message-ID: <s1182282.044@cactus.dk>

Hi Hans

Not quite sure what staunch is supposed to mean in this context. I have worked with Novell products since NetWare 2.0 and ArcNet - before network was a known word in the MS world. 
With NetWare 3.x you still had to compile the OS - yes, from the setup floppies you defined the hardware drivers, IRQs, ports, etc. and, as the last step, compiled a single exe, the NOS, which the server launched. Change a NIC or an IRQ? Adjust and compile again. Updates were patches that were downloaded from Bulletin Boards and actually modified the existing exe-files.

We still have a NetWare 6.5 server running in its 10th year to host our GroupWise mail server.
However, running NetWare for file and print services became more and more difficult. Linux servers lacked completely the directory services like that of Novell and later Windows Active Directory. 
So when new file and print servers had to be installed with a directory service, we looked at Windows. First we looked at our clients. Most ran Windows Servers and they ran rock steady. We obtained the MAPS, Microsoft Action Pack which lets a small organisation as ours fly for about USD 500 per year. Nothing beats this. For more than a year we experimented with OpenFiler, Solaris, and other Xnix type servers with poor results, and since then we haven't looked back. Time is too short.

Next step is to swap our GroupWise with Exchange and its superior Web Access. I know, lots of mail servers out there, but why go for less when it is included in the MAPS package.

Like most others I'm quite dissapointed with the route Access followed. However, it made me turn to Visual Studio and C# which was an eye-opener. Actually, it brought back the fun part of programming to me. What could be more important.

Regarding Windows (Phone) 8 is where you may have a point. As part of the minority that recognize and understand the craftmanship and perspective of the Metro interface, I'm convinced this will be big. Time will show.

/gustav

???????????, 10 ??????? 2013, 6:08 -08:00 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen 

.. it seems to me that yourself and Gustav are certainly two of the most staunch supporters of IE and Microsoft in general. Would that be a fair assessment? :)



From gustav at cactus.dk  Mon Feb 11 07:11:46 2013
From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2013 14:11:46 +0100
Subject: [dba-Tech] Server security software
Message-ID: <00b101ce0859$586a5c00$093f1400$@cactus.dk>

Hi John

No, currently we use OutLook 2010 as the mail client with IMAP to our
GroupWise server. Remotely, it is the Novell webmail.
As mentioned, we will "exchange" that (pun intended).

The spamfilter is the zero-administration SpamBunker version 3 by Manfred
M?rer, a Swizz guy who "vanished" so I can't even tell where to obtain it.
It runs very well on a virtual modest Win2000 server and 256K ram only.

/gustav

-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af John Bartow
Sendt: 10. februar 2013 16:53
Til: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Emne: Re: [dba-Tech] Server security software

Hi Gustav,
Thanks for the response. Unfortunately my client's users aren't so well
behaved :-(

Are you using Exchange for email? I've noticed the jump in spam again. May I
ask which spam filter you are using?

John B

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2013 7:45 AM
To: dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Server security software

Hi John

We run nothing. Workstations, however, run MSE, and users are well behaving,
and servers are behind firewalls.
More importantly, we run a powerful spamfilter as spam ratio - after a quiet
period - is up again in the 80-85% ratio.

/gustav

>>> john at winhaven.net 10-02-13 3:42 >>>
Hi All,

Setting up a new Server with SBS 2011. In the past I have not used the same
security software on a server as the workstations just because it gives a
second check on the files. What do you all thin and what security software
do you have on your Windows servers?

 

Not so sure a double check on the files matters that much anymore. With
scam-ware and phish bate being the biggest threat I see it seems to be more
about user training. My experience with Vipre security software shows that
it has seemly caught up, and is staying abreast, of new file infections.
What do you all think?

 

John B 



From hans.andersen at phulse.com  Mon Feb 11 07:26:13 2013
From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen)
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2013 05:26:13 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] The Windows Surface Pro
In-Reply-To: <s1182282.044@cactus.dk>
References: <s1182282.044@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <99C162B8-084B-4876-B46D-1E5DF8A6A55B@phulse.com>

Hi Gustav,

By staunch, I mean that you both are presently invested in Microsoft technologies and seek solutions to things from Microsoft where alternatives exist, sometimes even if the alternatives may be more popular (and even better sometimes). A staunch supporter is someone who is a first adopter of a new and unproven technology. A staunch supporter prefers to stick with what is familiar, even if it is not necessarily the best.

I'd call myself a staunch supporter of Linux (although I am not an android user), so I am not saying this as a negative, just as someone from the other side of the table.

- Hans


On 2013-02-10, at 1:43 PM, "Gustav Brock" <gustav at cactus.dk> wrote:

> Hi Hans
> 
> Not quite sure what staunch is supposed to mean in this context. I have worked with Novell products since NetWare 2.0 and ArcNet - before network was a known word in the MS world. 
> With NetWare 3.x you still had to compile the OS - yes, from the setup floppies you defined the hardware drivers, IRQs, ports, etc. and, as the last step, compiled a single exe, the NOS, which the server launched. Change a NIC or an IRQ? Adjust and compile again. Updates were patches that were downloaded from Bulletin Boards and actually modified the existing exe-files.
> 
> We still have a NetWare 6.5 server running in its 10th year to host our GroupWise mail server.
> However, running NetWare for file and print services became more and more difficult. Linux servers lacked completely the directory services like that of Novell and later Windows Active Directory. 
> So when new file and print servers had to be installed with a directory service, we looked at Windows. First we looked at our clients. Most ran Windows Servers and they ran rock steady. We obtained the MAPS, Microsoft Action Pack which lets a small organisation as ours fly for about USD 500 per year. Nothing beats this. For more than a year we experimented with OpenFiler, Solaris, and other Xnix type servers with poor results, and since then we haven't looked back. Time is too short.
> 
> Next step is to swap our GroupWise with Exchange and its superior Web Access. I know, lots of mail servers out there, but why go for less when it is included in the MAPS package.
> 
> Like most others I'm quite dissapointed with the route Access followed. However, it made me turn to Visual Studio and C# which was an eye-opener. Actually, it brought back the fun part of programming to me. What could be more important.
> 
> Regarding Windows (Phone) 8 is where you may have a point. As part of the minority that recognize and understand the craftmanship and perspective of the Metro interface, I'm convinced this will be big. Time will show.
> 
> /gustav
> 
> ???????????, 10 ??????? 2013, 6:08 -08:00 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen 
> 
> .. it seems to me that yourself and Gustav are certainly two of the most staunch supporters of IE and Microsoft in general. Would that be a fair assessment? :)
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From john at winhaven.net  Mon Feb 11 11:05:06 2013
From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow)
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2013 11:05:06 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] SPAM filter for Windows SBS 2011
Message-ID: <00c501ce0879$f0d24460$d276cd20$@winhaven.net>

Does anyone have a recommendation for SPAM filters? I have a couple but am
looking for your experienced opinions.

 

Thanks,

John B



From john at winhaven.net  Mon Feb 11 11:10:15 2013
From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow)
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2013 11:10:15 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] Microsoft LightSwitch moves to HTML5
Message-ID: <00d501ce087a$a96676e0$fc3364a0$@winhaven.net>

FYI:
Microsoft LightSwitch Turns on the Power of Rapid App Development
http://www.eweek.com/developer/slideshows/microsoft-lightswitch-turns-on-the
-power-of-rapid-app-development/?kc=EWKNLNAV02112013STR1



From rockysmolin at bchacc.com  Mon Feb 11 11:39:20 2013
From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin)
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2013 09:39:20 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] SPAM filter for Windows SBS 2011
In-Reply-To: <00c501ce0879$f0d24460$d276cd20$@winhaven.net>
References: <00c501ce0879$f0d24460$d276cd20$@winhaven.net>
Message-ID: <07D2D00826904E17A41D4AC8C5E0053C@HAL9007>

My ISP is Time Warner.  I don't find that I am getting enough Spam to want
to filter it any further.  I also have avast! Which blocks sites with
trojans or other malware should I happen to click on a link to a bad site.

Not responsive to your question but I'm wondering now if my experience - not
much spam coming through from my ISP who I assume if filtering for me, and
AV software which stops me from clicking bad links - is common or if people
find that more local filtering is necessary.

I am a lone ranger here and not responsible for the odd things that 200
users might do.  SO that may be a difference between our two environments.

Rocky
 

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2013 9:05 AM
To: DBA-Tech
Subject: [dba-Tech] SPAM filter for Windows SBS 2011

Does anyone have a recommendation for SPAM filters? I have a couple but am
looking for your experienced opinions.

 

Thanks,

John B


_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From john at winhaven.net  Mon Feb 11 12:11:48 2013
From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow)
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2013 12:11:48 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] SPAM filter for Windows SBS 2011
In-Reply-To: <07D2D00826904E17A41D4AC8C5E0053C@HAL9007>
References: <00c501ce0879$f0d24460$d276cd20$@winhaven.net>
	<07D2D00826904E17A41D4AC8C5E0053C@HAL9007>
Message-ID: <00f901ce0883$4251fb10$c6f5f130$@winhaven.net>

Most security software does link scanning in emails. The problem is with the
number of SPAM emails. It's a distraction and annoyance. When on a large
network can cause congestion. And with 100,000 malicious sites and apps
being released per day it is no longer sufficient to assume that none will
get through. So assuming an ISP filters SPAM is risky and when your ISP
doesn't server your email because you have your own domain and email server
you have to assume that you need to do this yourself.

LOL yes you lone rangers have a completely different experience <giddyup>.

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2013 11:39 AM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] SPAM filter for Windows SBS 2011

My ISP is Time Warner.  I don't find that I am getting enough Spam to want
to filter it any further.  I also have avast! Which blocks sites with
trojans or other malware should I happen to click on a link to a bad site.

Not responsive to your question but I'm wondering now if my experience - not
much spam coming through from my ISP who I assume if filtering for me, and
AV software which stops me from clicking bad links - is common or if people
find that more local filtering is necessary.

I am a lone ranger here and not responsible for the odd things that 200
users might do.  SO that may be a difference between our two environments.

Rocky
 

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2013 9:05 AM
To: DBA-Tech
Subject: [dba-Tech] SPAM filter for Windows SBS 2011

Does anyone have a recommendation for SPAM filters? I have a couple but am
looking for your experienced opinions.

 

Thanks,

John B


_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Mon Feb 11 16:32:00 2013
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 08:32:00 +1000
Subject: [dba-Tech] SPAM filter for Windows SBS 2011
In-Reply-To: <00c501ce0879$f0d24460$d276cd20$@winhaven.net>
References: <00c501ce0879$f0d24460$d276cd20$@winhaven.net>
Message-ID: <51197160.29591.14128FBA@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

Depending on your cicrumstances, onlline filtering may the the way to go.

I resell these guys in PNG and am very impressed with them:

http://onlinespamsolutions.com/

-- 
Stuart

On 11 Feb 2013 at 11:05, John Bartow wrote:

> Does anyone have a recommendation for SPAM filters? I have a couple but am
> looking for your experienced opinions.
> 
>  
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> John B
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 



From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Mon Feb 11 16:54:09 2013
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 08:54:09 +1000
Subject: [dba-Tech]
	=?utf-8?q?FYI=3A_Microsoft=E2=80=99s_128GB_Surface_Pro?=
	=?utf-8?q?_Sells_Out_At_MS_Online_Store_Just_Hours_After_Launch?=
In-Reply-To: <1360495212.146344839@f377.i.mail.ru>
References: <1360495212.146344839@f377.i.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <51197691.19414.1426D84E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

The Reg sums it up;

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/02/11/surface_pro_shortages/
"It's easy to sell out of sod all stock"

:-)

On 10 Feb 2013 at 15:20, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote:

>  Hi All --
> 
> FYI:? http://techcrunch.com/2013/02/09/microsofts-128gb-surface-pro-sells-out-at-ms-online-store-just-hours-after-launch/
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> -- SHamil
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com




From accessd at shaw.ca  Mon Feb 11 16:54:52 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2013 14:54:52 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Want a real cheap working Laptop
In-Reply-To: <B1C08D1E-4DDF-4D40-B33C-D536A05CB17D@phulse.com>
References: <1360495212.146344839@f377.i.mail.ru><1360497448.561824123@f364.mail.ru><5A27A55F-70BA-48C9-AC04-056FE46B1689@phulse.com>
	<B1C08D1E-4DDF-4D40-B33C-D536A05CB17D@phulse.com>
Message-ID: <07189B0D664F4C83903531FD6CA000FB@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi All:

For all those who want a real cheap Laptop and have all the functionality so
you can do real programming check out the following:

First get a Chromebook. The price runs from $199 to $299. Interestingly,
everything on the notebook automatically backs itself up on the Cloud.
http://www.google.com/intl/en_ca/chrome/devices/#foreveryone-promo-samsung

The Chromebook OS is cute but hardly an OS for developers, enter a OSS
package called Crouton:
https://github.com/dnschneid/crouton

The following instructing will be how get a full Linux style environment
installed:

<Quote>
"... Getting started with CROUTON

The first thing to do is boot the Chromebook into Developer Mode. Doing this
will wipe the device, but that doesn't really matter because everything is
backed up to the cloud and gets synced back down when you log in.  This is
the process I had to follow for my model, and yours may be a little
different - just Google for it. You don't need to worry about setting up the
firmware to boot from USB. Once you are in Developer Mode, sign in and hit
Ctrl + Alt + T to fire up the shell. Type shell to be dropped into a BASH
environment. At this point you need to follow the directions in Crouton's
README, but here's a quick rundown of what you need to do in the shell we
just opened:

1  sudo sh -e ~/Downloads/crouton -t unity

Go for a walk at this point - this will download about 700 MB of files. Once
the process is complete, you will be prompted for the root user name
password. Enter that, a few other bits of user info, and you're done! Since
we installed Unity, we can fire that up with:

The `-b` backgrounds the process.  You can omit it.
2  sudo startunity -b

You can switch between the Chrome OS and Ubuntu environments with ctrl + alt
+ shift + F1 (the "back" button) and ctrl + alt + shift + F2 (forward),
respectively.

That's it! Now you can run Ubuntu apps inside of Chrome OS.

Setting up a development environment

The previous section was for setting up an Ubuntu chroot, this section is
for setting up some tools that are useful for web development.


GIT
You need Git. 'Nuff said.

1  sudo apt-get install git


VIM WITH RUBY SUPPORT

Command-T, a Vim plugin I use, depends on Ruby support. Because of this, I
needed to compile Vim with Ruby support enabled. The Ubuntu chroot that
Crouton installed lacks a few of the dependencies that a Ruby-enabled Vim
requires, so I had to install those myself:

1  sudo apt-get install libncurses5-dev ruby-dev

>From here I followed this guide written by Kre?imir Boj?i? , but here's the
part that actually gets and compiles the source code into an executable:

1  # Vim is in a Mercurial repository.
2  sudo apt-get install mercurial
3
4  hg clone https://vim.googlecode.com/hg/ ~/vim
5  cd ~/vim
6  hg update -C v7-3-154
7  ./configure --with-features=huge  --disable-largefile \
8              --enable-perlinterp   --enable-pythoninterp \
9              --enable-rubyinterp   --enable-gui=gtk2 \
10
11 make
12 sudo make install

Now your Vim has Ruby support!


OpenSSH

Another critical tool for me is OpenSSH, because I like to SSH into my
Ubuntu environment from Chrome and not deal with Unity any more than I have
to. The easiest way to do this is to install tasksel and install OpenSSH
from there:

1  sudo apt-get install tasksel
2  sudo tasksel

tasksel gives you a UI to select a number of packages you'd like to install,
including OpenSSH. You can also easily install a LAMP stack from this UI, if
you'd like.


NODE.JS

Yup, you can run NodeJS from Chrome OS. It's as simple as:

1  sudo apt-get install nodejs npm


FULL-STACK DEVELOPMENT FOR $250

The Chromebook is an amazing little device. By running an Ubuntu chroot, you
have all the tools you need to build a web project from scratch, and
probably a lot more. Keep in mind that it has an ARM instruction set, so
some programs may not work (or at least need to be compiled from source). I
haven't had any hangups that I couldn't fix, however. Why is this worth the
trouble? Personally, I just like little computers. It's also great to have a
SSD-powered laptop that has no moving parts - not even a fan. A soft benefit
of having such an inexpensive device is the peace of mind of not lugging
around a $2000+ laptop with you to the coffee shop. The 11-inch screen is
reasonably comfortable to code on and the battery life is great. The
Chromebook feels like a poor man's MacBook Air, and with a full-featured
local development environment, I can safely depend on it wherever I go..."
</Quote>

Development on a budget even with a full Ubuntu 12.04 desktop. Cool and so
cheap. 

Jim  



From accessd at shaw.ca  Mon Feb 11 17:04:52 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2013 15:04:52 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] A new tool will allow MS to develop in iOS and Android
In-Reply-To: <51197160.29591.14128FBA@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
References: <00c501ce0879$f0d24460$d276cd20$@winhaven.net>
	<51197160.29591.14128FBA@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
Message-ID: <D89A574A2760495483420A229C3494CA@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi All:

For those who develop in Microsoft Visual Studio here is a link to a package
that will also allow you to develop applications additionally in iOS and
Android...as well as your MS environments.

http://www.devexpress.com/Subscriptions/DXTREME/Reviewers-Guide/index.html#/
Intro

https://www3.gotomeeting.com/register/698116374

Jim


From accessd at shaw.ca  Mon Feb 11 17:27:11 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2013 15:27:11 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Another app store
In-Reply-To: <51197691.19414.1426D84E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
References: <1360495212.146344839@f377.i.mail.ru>
	<51197691.19414.1426D84E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
Message-ID: <656215427AAC4539BC7027EECD1DA3B2@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi All:

An app store for the Raspberry PI.

http://www.i-programmer.info/news/91-hardware/5228-rasbery-pi-gets-an-app-st
ore.html

Jim


From accessd at shaw.ca  Mon Feb 11 17:29:28 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2013 15:29:28 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech]
	=?iso-8859-1?q?FYI=3A_Microsoft=27s_128GB_Surface_Pro_?=
	=?iso-8859-1?q?Sells_Out_At_MS_Online_Store_Just_Hours_After_Launc?=
	=?iso-8859-1?q?h?=
In-Reply-To: <51197691.19414.1426D84E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
References: <1360495212.146344839@f377.i.mail.ru>
	<51197691.19414.1426D84E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
Message-ID: <B71B3A84CC3C4E429DA2DB3F8428B98F@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Stuart:

It is amazing how a good sales team can turn a disaster into a success
story.

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2013 2:54 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech]FYI: Microsoft?s 128GB Surface Pro Sells Out At MS
Online Store Just Hours After Launch

The Reg sums it up;

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/02/11/surface_pro_shortages/
"It's easy to sell out of sod all stock"

:-)

On 10 Feb 2013 at 15:20, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote:

>  Hi All --
> 
> FYI:?
http://techcrunch.com/2013/02/09/microsofts-128gb-surface-pro-sells-out-at-m
s-online-store-just-hours-after-launch/
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> -- SHamil
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From john at winhaven.net  Mon Feb 11 18:17:26 2013
From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow)
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2013 18:17:26 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] SPAM filter for Windows SBS 2011
In-Reply-To: <51197160.29591.14128FBA@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
References: <00c501ce0879$f0d24460$d276cd20$@winhaven.net>
	<51197160.29591.14128FBA@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
Message-ID: <000501ce08b6$593a0dd0$0bae2970$@winhaven.net>

Thanks for the reference.

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2013 4:32 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] SPAM filter for Windows SBS 2011

Depending on your cicrumstances, onlline filtering may the the way to go.

I resell these guys in PNG and am very impressed with them:

http://onlinespamsolutions.com/

--
Stuart

On 11 Feb 2013 at 11:05, John Bartow wrote:

> Does anyone have a recommendation for SPAM filters? I have a couple 
> but am looking for your experienced opinions.
> 
>  
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> John B
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 


_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From accessd at shaw.ca  Tue Feb 12 03:30:16 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 01:30:16 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] When the Register prints it must be official
In-Reply-To: <B71B3A84CC3C4E429DA2DB3F8428B98F@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <1360495212.146344839@f377.i.mail.ru><51197691.19414.1426D84E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
	<B71B3A84CC3C4E429DA2DB3F8428B98F@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <3A88A6D2108248AEAF9AA428D2D3A94A@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi All:

For those using OSS OS products the new UEFI Secure Boot chips posed a real
problem but an official hack from the Linux Foundation has resolved the
problem and all distros of Linux will now be shipped with the fix and
auto-updates are being downloaded for the rest.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/02/11/linux_foundation_uefi_workaround/

Jim


From gustav at cactus.dk  Tue Feb 12 08:28:18 2013
From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 15:28:18 +0100
Subject: [dba-Tech] SPAM filter for Windows SBS 2011
Message-ID: <009901ce092d$33f510c0$9bdf3240$@cactus.dk>

Hi John and Stuart

One severe issue with such services is, that you don't know who else might
be reading your incoming mail. I know, e-mail is like open postcards but
still.

If you (your client) is ready to take the step anyway, you could just as
well get a corporate account at Google mail or Microsoft, move your primary
MX to that, and set automatic forwarding of all mail to your local mail
server. This way you will even have automatic archiving of all incoming mail
at no added cost.

/gustav

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2013 4:32 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] SPAM filter for Windows SBS 2011

Depending on your cicrumstances, onlline filtering may the the way to go.

I resell these guys in PNG and am very impressed with them:

http://onlinespamsolutions.com/

--
Stuart 


From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Tue Feb 12 11:05:41 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 21:05:41 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech]
 =?utf-8?q?FYI=3A_Microsoft=27s_128GB_Surface_Pro_Sells?=
 =?utf-8?q?_Out_At_MS_Online_Store_Just_Hours_After_Launch?=
In-Reply-To: <B71B3A84CC3C4E429DA2DB3F8428B98F@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <1360495212.146344839@f377.i.mail.ru>
	<51197691.19414.1426D84E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
	<B71B3A84CC3C4E429DA2DB3F8428B98F@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <1360688741.227781361@f75.mail.ru>

 Hi Jim and All --

I haven't seen before TechCrunch being "pro-Microsoft" so I have reposted the link on their article without checking it. I'll be more careful in the future.

Thank you.

-- Shamil

???????????, 11 ??????? 2013, 15:29 -08:00 ?? "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca>:
>Hi Stuart:
>
>It is amazing how a good sales team can turn a disaster into a success
>story.
>
>Jim
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From:  dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan
>Sent: Monday, February 11, 2013 2:54 PM
>To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>Subject: Re: [dba-Tech]FYI: Microsoft?s 128GB Surface Pro Sells Out At MS
>Online Store Just Hours After Launch
>
>The Reg sums it up;
>
>http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/02/11/surface_pro_shortages/
>"It's easy to sell out of sod all stock"
>
>:-)
>
>On 10 Feb 2013 at 15:20, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote:
>
>>  Hi All --
>> 
>> FYI:?
>http://techcrunch.com/2013/02/09/microsofts-128gb-surface-pro-sells-out-at-m
>s-online-store-just-hours-after-launch/
>> 
>> Thank you.
>> 
>> -- SHamil
>> 
>> 
>


From john at winhaven.net  Tue Feb 12 11:31:40 2013
From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 11:31:40 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] FYI: Microsoft's 128GB Surface Pro Sells Out At MS
	Online Store Just Hours After Launch
In-Reply-To: <1360688741.227781361@f75.mail.ru>
References: <1360495212.146344839@f377.i.mail.ru>	<51197691.19414.1426D84E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>	<B71B3A84CC3C4E429DA2DB3F8428B98F@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<1360688741.227781361@f75.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <00fa01ce0946$d17af4e0$7470dea0$@winhaven.net>

Shamil,
I wouldn't worry about it. There are pro-other products/companies/ideas being posted here every day. No one is forced to read our posts ;-)

John B

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 11:06 AM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] FYI: Microsoft's 128GB Surface Pro Sells Out At MS Online Store Just Hours After Launch

 Hi Jim and All --

I haven't seen before TechCrunch being "pro-Microsoft" so I have reposted the link on their article without checking it. I'll be more careful in the future.

Thank you.

-- Shamil

???????????, 11 ??????? 2013, 15:29 -08:00 ?? "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca>:
>Hi Stuart:
>
>It is amazing how a good sales team can turn a disaster into a success 
>story.
>
>Jim
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From:  dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart 
>McLachlan
>Sent: Monday, February 11, 2013 2:54 PM
>To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>Subject: Re: [dba-Tech]FYI: Microsoft?s 128GB Surface Pro Sells Out At 
>MS Online Store Just Hours After Launch
>
>The Reg sums it up;
>
>http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/02/11/surface_pro_shortages/
>"It's easy to sell out of sod all stock"
>
>:-)
>
>On 10 Feb 2013 at 15:20, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote:
>
>>  Hi All --
>> 
>> FYI:
>http://techcrunch.com/2013/02/09/microsofts-128gb-surface-pro-sells-out
>-at-m s-online-store-just-hours-after-launch/
>> 
>> Thank you.
>> 
>> -- SHamil
>> 
>> 
>

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From accessd at shaw.ca  Tue Feb 12 13:38:23 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 11:38:23 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] FYI: Microsoft's 128GB Surface Pro Sells Out At MS
	Online Store Just Hours After Launch
In-Reply-To: <1360688741.227781361@f75.mail.ru>
References: <1360495212.146344839@f377.i.mail.ru><51197691.19414.1426D84E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><B71B3A84CC3C4E429DA2DB3F8428B98F@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<1360688741.227781361@f75.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <540FC25B0B874D728FDD69315ECEC19F@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Shamil:

I would be far from anti-Microsoft especially as I have made a very good living from the OS. I must admit I would definitely like to change the direction in so many ways...ways that would open up more opportunities than less but my name is not Steve Ballmer. 

I doubt whether any company will gain control of ninety-five percent of the market, ever again but that is hardly a bad situation for techs...it is just that we have to be a jack of more trades now. 

Mixing, matching and mashups is the new tech future. 

Jim  

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 9:06 AM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] FYI: Microsoft's 128GB Surface Pro Sells Out At MS Online Store Just Hours After Launch

 Hi Jim and All --

I haven't seen before TechCrunch being "pro-Microsoft" so I have reposted the link on their article without checking it. I'll be more careful in the future.

Thank you.

-- Shamil

???????????, 11 ??????? 2013, 15:29 -08:00 ?? "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca>:
>Hi Stuart:
>
>It is amazing how a good sales team can turn a disaster into a success
>story.
>
>Jim
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From:  dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan
>Sent: Monday, February 11, 2013 2:54 PM
>To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>Subject: Re: [dba-Tech]FYI: Microsoft?s 128GB Surface Pro Sells Out At MS
>Online Store Just Hours After Launch
>
>The Reg sums it up;
>
>http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/02/11/surface_pro_shortages/
>"It's easy to sell out of sod all stock"
>
>:-)
>
>On 10 Feb 2013 at 15:20, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote:
>
>>  Hi All --
>> 
>> FYI: 
>http://techcrunch.com/2013/02/09/microsofts-128gb-surface-pro-sells-out-at-m
>s-online-store-just-hours-after-launch/
>> 
>> Thank you.
>> 
>> -- SHamil
>> 
>> 
>

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From accessd at shaw.ca  Tue Feb 12 13:39:23 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 11:39:23 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] FYI: Microsoft's 128GB Surface Pro Sells Out At
	MSOnline Store Just Hours After Launch
In-Reply-To: <00fa01ce0946$d17af4e0$7470dea0$@winhaven.net>
References: <1360495212.146344839@f377.i.mail.ru>	<51197691.19414.1426D84E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>	<B71B3A84CC3C4E429DA2DB3F8428B98F@creativesystemdesigns.com><1360688741.227781361@f75.mail.ru>
	<00fa01ce0946$d17af4e0$7470dea0$@winhaven.net>
Message-ID: <62E3AEFDE4954F55ACAB4666D43CF0D8@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi all:

But they should as we know what we are talking about. ;-)

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 9:32 AM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] FYI: Microsoft's 128GB Surface Pro Sells Out At
MSOnline Store Just Hours After Launch

Shamil,
I wouldn't worry about it. There are pro-other products/companies/ideas
being posted here every day. No one is forced to read our posts ;-)

John B

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov
Shamil
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 11:06 AM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] FYI: Microsoft's 128GB Surface Pro Sells Out At MS
Online Store Just Hours After Launch

 Hi Jim and All --

I haven't seen before TechCrunch being "pro-Microsoft" so I have reposted
the link on their article without checking it. I'll be more careful in the
future.

Thank you.

-- Shamil

???????????, 11 ??????? 2013, 15:29 -08:00 ?? "Jim Lawrence"
<accessd at shaw.ca>:
>Hi Stuart:
>
>It is amazing how a good sales team can turn a disaster into a success 
>story.
>
>Jim
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From:  dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart 
>McLachlan
>Sent: Monday, February 11, 2013 2:54 PM
>To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>Subject: Re: [dba-Tech]FYI: Microsoft's 128GB Surface Pro Sells Out At 
>MS Online Store Just Hours After Launch
>
>The Reg sums it up;
>
>http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/02/11/surface_pro_shortages/
>"It's easy to sell out of sod all stock"
>
>:-)
>
>On 10 Feb 2013 at 15:20, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote:
>
>>  Hi All --
>> 
>> FYI:
>http://techcrunch.com/2013/02/09/microsofts-128gb-surface-pro-sells-out
>-at-m s-online-store-just-hours-after-launch/
>> 
>> Thank you.
>> 
>> -- SHamil
>> 
>> 
>

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From fuller.artful at gmail.com  Tue Feb 12 13:44:32 2013
From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 14:44:32 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] "Intelligent" candles
Message-ID: <CAEPJO1iNTRT2CTELcz8s8Je2qMuvHsbM93tEF4VSm=x6HRfHeg@mail.gmail.com>

My friend Murph has recently visited a couple of times, on each occasion
(being one of those rare old-school gentlemen) bringing a small gift of
insignificant cost, but a gesture in thanks for the meal I had prepared,
the gift being a candle in a glass jar suitable for potables once fully
burned and cleaned.

The interesting part to me is the nature of the wax, and its possible
contents that make it work. In its initial state, the wax is a pale grey
non-colour. But when you light it, the candle immediately turns its wax
green, then blue, then purple, then red (the sequence might be incorrect),
and as long as left burning, cycles through the colour-states every 30
seconds or so.

Quite by accident I discovered that it's not even necessary to light said
candle: the warmth of your hand is enough to begin the cycle.

I have no idea how this phenomenon is achieved, but it is very cool,
assuming that you're the sort of person who appreciates candles.

There are NO electronics involved. It's just wax in a glass and a wick. But
obviously something has been added to the wax.

Does anyone have an idea how this candle works, and according to what
principles?

A.

From accessd at shaw.ca  Tue Feb 12 16:00:11 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 14:00:11 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] IIS is hardly sinking into oblivion but...
In-Reply-To: <540FC25B0B874D728FDD69315ECEC19F@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <1360495212.146344839@f377.i.mail.ru><51197691.19414.1426D84E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><B71B3A84CC3C4E429DA2DB3F8428B98F@creativesystemdesigns.com><1360688741.227781361@f75.mail.ru>
	<540FC25B0B874D728FDD69315ECEC19F@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <1C3638CFFC724C138C11E25FFA958CB9@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi All:

IIS is steady lossing ground (and Appache too) and to a new comer INGNX.

http://mrpogson.com/2012/11/01/nginx-overtakes-iis-on-netcrafts-active-sites
-list/

Hardy a big concern seeing the big three Appache, IIS and now INGINX have
basically carved up the market for their own.

An aside: With that thought in mind, has anyone installed an IIS server on
Linux?

I have heard it can be done but have not seen any details on how this can be
accomplished. My IIS web hosting server has to go in for a major refit and
will probaly not be back up and running until early March...I am fighting
with an absolute development deadline but there is one very dated website
that is still ASP with a MS SQL server BE.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Any exporters, translators or
converters...something fast, simple and temporary.    

MTIA
Jim


From accessd at shaw.ca  Tue Feb 12 16:02:44 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 14:02:44 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] "Intelligent" candles
In-Reply-To: <CAEPJO1iNTRT2CTELcz8s8Je2qMuvHsbM93tEF4VSm=x6HRfHeg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEPJO1iNTRT2CTELcz8s8Je2qMuvHsbM93tEF4VSm=x6HRfHeg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2FBB85031C234370A2C22347AB6B9D91@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Arthur:

Nothing off the top but that wax sounds very interesting. Will do some
research later this evening.

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 11:45 AM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: [dba-Tech] "Intelligent" candles

My friend Murph has recently visited a couple of times, on each occasion
(being one of those rare old-school gentlemen) bringing a small gift of
insignificant cost, but a gesture in thanks for the meal I had prepared,
the gift being a candle in a glass jar suitable for potables once fully
burned and cleaned.

The interesting part to me is the nature of the wax, and its possible
contents that make it work. In its initial state, the wax is a pale grey
non-colour. But when you light it, the candle immediately turns its wax
green, then blue, then purple, then red (the sequence might be incorrect),
and as long as left burning, cycles through the colour-states every 30
seconds or so.

Quite by accident I discovered that it's not even necessary to light said
candle: the warmth of your hand is enough to begin the cycle.

I have no idea how this phenomenon is achieved, but it is very cool,
assuming that you're the sort of person who appreciates candles.

There are NO electronics involved. It's just wax in a glass and a wick. But
obviously something has been added to the wax.

Does anyone have an idea how this candle works, and according to what
principles?

A.
_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Tue Feb 12 16:05:51 2013
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 08:05:51 +1000
Subject: [dba-Tech] "Intelligent" candles
In-Reply-To: <CAEPJO1iNTRT2CTELcz8s8Je2qMuvHsbM93tEF4VSm=x6HRfHeg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEPJO1iNTRT2CTELcz8s8Je2qMuvHsbM93tEF4VSm=x6HRfHeg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <511ABCBF.14728.1920FA0B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

Usually, the wax doesn't actually change colour.   There are  coloured LED lights and battery 
in the base of the candle with a light or IR sensitive switch, sometimes with an optical fibre 
running down the  wick to the switch.    The glow from the slowly cycling LEDs is diffused 
throught the wax making it appear to change colour.

-- 
Stuart


On 12 Feb 2013 at 14:44, Arthur Fuller wrote:

> My friend Murph has recently visited a couple of times, on each occasion
> (being one of those rare old-school gentlemen) bringing a small gift of
> insignificant cost, but a gesture in thanks for the meal I had prepared,
> the gift being a candle in a glass jar suitable for potables once fully
> burned and cleaned.
> 
> The interesting part to me is the nature of the wax, and its possible
> contents that make it work. In its initial state, the wax is a pale grey
> non-colour. But when you light it, the candle immediately turns its wax
> green, then blue, then purple, then red (the sequence might be incorrect),
> and as long as left burning, cycles through the colour-states every 30
> seconds or so.
> 
> Quite by accident I discovered that it's not even necessary to light said
> candle: the warmth of your hand is enough to begin the cycle.
> 
> I have no idea how this phenomenon is achieved, but it is very cool,
> assuming that you're the sort of person who appreciates candles.
> 
> There are NO electronics involved. It's just wax in a glass and a wick. But
> obviously something has been added to the wax.
> 
> Does anyone have an idea how this candle works, and according to what
> principles?
> 
> A.
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 



From fuller.artful at gmail.com  Tue Feb 12 17:20:01 2013
From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 18:20:01 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] "Intelligent" candles
In-Reply-To: <511ABCBF.14728.1920FA0B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
References: <CAEPJO1iNTRT2CTELcz8s8Je2qMuvHsbM93tEF4VSm=x6HRfHeg@mail.gmail.com>
	<511ABCBF.14728.1920FA0B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
Message-ID: <CAEPJO1j0FgsBoYLUGSV0Ci2kSW+NKOn3Br6jjCCA-f9ESDRmAA@mail.gmail.com>

Not in this case, Stuart, but nevertheless an inventive reply. I have
burned one all the way to the bottom of the glass and there were no traces.
I poured boiling water onto it (outside first so as not to break it) and
now it's a drinking glass.

It's something they did to the wax.

A.

From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Tue Feb 12 17:53:53 2013
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 09:53:53 +1000
Subject: [dba-Tech] "Intelligent" candles
In-Reply-To: <CAEPJO1j0FgsBoYLUGSV0Ci2kSW+NKOn3Br6jjCCA-f9ESDRmAA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEPJO1iNTRT2CTELcz8s8Je2qMuvHsbM93tEF4VSm=x6HRfHeg@mail.gmail.com>,
	<511ABCBF.14728.1920FA0B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>,
	<CAEPJO1j0FgsBoYLUGSV0Ci2kSW+NKOn3Br6jjCCA-f9ESDRmAA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <511AD611.10052.1983E65E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

Well, that's the way  most of them are made, i.e.

http://www.gadgetepoint.co.uk/prod-magic-candle-real-wax-colour-changing-candle.php

The Magic Candle is an actual candle, with no batteries involved. The secret is its modern 
microelectronic technology. Next to the wick inside is an optical fiber that senses the light of 
the flame and activates the LED colour bulbs. 

http://aladdiescave.com.au/index.php?act=viewDoc&docId=11

Modern microelectronic technology allows the candle to emit a rainbow of constantly 
changing colours throughout the interior of the candle without dangerous, toxic dyes, 
chemicals or paints.

The clever power scource is an environmentally friendly LED battery that can power the 
candle for more than 25 hours


http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_do_air_wick_colour_changing_candles_work

Infrared light. There is an electronic kit at the bottom of the glass with and LED light on it 
which gives the illumination of colors. It is activated by infrared light. Infrared light, along with 
visible light, is given off by flames and incandescent light bulbs.

http://www.airwick.co.uk/faqs-colour-change-candle.php

How safe is my candle when you have batteries & electronics located in the base?

The candle is completely safe it has been thoroughly tested. The batteries & electronics are 
housed in a separate compartment that is not in contact with the flame or heat. 


However:  A google for "thermochromic candle wax" throws up quite a few patents such as:

http://www.google.com/patents/EP1090977A2?cl=en
The invention concerns a candle wherein the main body comprises (a) a solid combustible 
matrix, which may be a conventional wax or a solid clear gel formulation, and (b) a reversible 
color changing composition, preferably a thermochromic or photochromic composition, the 
components (a) and (b) preferably forming a homogeneous mixture.
[0011] Upon lighting, the light or heat given off by the flame causes the reversible color 
changing composition contained in the main body to change in color, to loose color, or to 
become colored, at least in the area nearest the flame. 




On 12 Feb 2013 at 18:20, Arthur Fuller wrote:

> Not in this case, Stuart, but nevertheless an inventive reply. I have
> burned one all the way to the bottom of the glass and there were no traces.
> I poured boiling water onto it (outside first so as not to break it) and
> now it's a drinking glass.
> 
> It's something they did to the wax.
> 
> A.
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 



From fuller.artful at gmail.com  Tue Feb 12 19:59:36 2013
From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 20:59:36 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] "Intelligent" candles
In-Reply-To: <511AD611.10052.1983E65E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
References: <CAEPJO1iNTRT2CTELcz8s8Je2qMuvHsbM93tEF4VSm=x6HRfHeg@mail.gmail.com>
	<511ABCBF.14728.1920FA0B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
	<CAEPJO1j0FgsBoYLUGSV0Ci2kSW+NKOn3Br6jjCCA-f9ESDRmAA@mail.gmail.com>
	<511AD611.10052.1983E65E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
Message-ID: <CAEPJO1hbB3gPqXJVu=PZz-0=jg-Kr1-mBjWcyAXVgg7uGo+Pdw@mail.gmail.com>

I admire your Google-search abilities  Stuart, and admit that I too
suspected similar chicanery. But unless they are using nano-tech, there
were no discernible traces of anything electronic once the wax was gone. So
I am left with two conjectures: a) it's in the wax, or b) said electronics
melt without trace one the last of the wax is gone.

I have lots of difficulty subscribing to the latter explanation. That's not
to say that I have irrefutable evidence to the contrary, but my simple
ignorant experiment (burn the candle until there's no wax left) yielded no
traces of anything metallic or otherwise. Hardly hard science, I grant you.
But the casual and ignorant observer notes that a) this experiment is
repeatable; and b) there are no apparent traces left once all the wax is
gone. This leads me to conjecture that it's in the wax itself, some
substance melted into the wax at candle-formation time.

I am not standing in any direction on this. Frankly I am mystified. The
definitive answer lies somewhere in China, within a company that
manufactures these candles at a price which after import taxes, overseas
transport etc., retail markup, results in a candle-in-a-glass that retails
for about a dollar, in CDN currency. At that price, I cannot fathom how it
could be done with LEDs. But I'm just a stupid guy from Winnipeg who can
program a 500-table database and can't even figure out how his $1 candle
works.

I'm beginning to think that I'm a relic on this planet. It's going way
faster than I can cope with, but I have yet to quit and accept the fate of
Drowned. When in doubt, play Chess.

A.

From accessd at shaw.ca  Tue Feb 12 20:46:30 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 18:46:30 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] "Intelligent" candles
In-Reply-To: <CAEPJO1hbB3gPqXJVu=PZz-0=jg-Kr1-mBjWcyAXVgg7uGo+Pdw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEPJO1iNTRT2CTELcz8s8Je2qMuvHsbM93tEF4VSm=x6HRfHeg@mail.gmail.com><511ABCBF.14728.1920FA0B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><CAEPJO1j0FgsBoYLUGSV0Ci2kSW+NKOn3Br6jjCCA-f9ESDRmAA@mail.gmail.com><511AD611.10052.1983E65E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
	<CAEPJO1hbB3gPqXJVu=PZz-0=jg-Kr1-mBjWcyAXVgg7uGo+Pdw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C1F8D2F80FD44D039F6F1CC7716F9793@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Arthur:

I have not looked into this but an LED can be the size of a head of a pin.

The new lights when you take off the cover look like a six shiny pin heads
on a black surface. Without the light diffuser cover the light can be very
blinding, like an arc-welder.

OTOH, wax can be mixed with chemicals to make it burn different colours.
Copper nitrate for green, strontium nitrate for red, sodium nitrate for
orange and so on...

Jim   

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 6:00 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] "Intelligent" candles

I admire your Google-search abilities  Stuart, and admit that I too
suspected similar chicanery. But unless they are using nano-tech, there
were no discernible traces of anything electronic once the wax was gone. So
I am left with two conjectures: a) it's in the wax, or b) said electronics
melt without trace one the last of the wax is gone.

I have lots of difficulty subscribing to the latter explanation. That's not
to say that I have irrefutable evidence to the contrary, but my simple
ignorant experiment (burn the candle until there's no wax left) yielded no
traces of anything metallic or otherwise. Hardly hard science, I grant you.
But the casual and ignorant observer notes that a) this experiment is
repeatable; and b) there are no apparent traces left once all the wax is
gone. This leads me to conjecture that it's in the wax itself, some
substance melted into the wax at candle-formation time.

I am not standing in any direction on this. Frankly I am mystified. The
definitive answer lies somewhere in China, within a company that
manufactures these candles at a price which after import taxes, overseas
transport etc., retail markup, results in a candle-in-a-glass that retails
for about a dollar, in CDN currency. At that price, I cannot fathom how it
could be done with LEDs. But I'm just a stupid guy from Winnipeg who can
program a 500-table database and can't even figure out how his $1 candle
works.

I'm beginning to think that I'm a relic on this planet. It's going way
faster than I can cope with, but I have yet to quit and accept the fate of
Drowned. When in doubt, play Chess.

A.
_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From fuller.artful at gmail.com  Tue Feb 12 20:50:49 2013
From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 21:50:49 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] "Intelligent" candles
In-Reply-To: <C1F8D2F80FD44D039F6F1CC7716F9793@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <CAEPJO1iNTRT2CTELcz8s8Je2qMuvHsbM93tEF4VSm=x6HRfHeg@mail.gmail.com>
	<511ABCBF.14728.1920FA0B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
	<CAEPJO1j0FgsBoYLUGSV0Ci2kSW+NKOn3Br6jjCCA-f9ESDRmAA@mail.gmail.com>
	<511AD611.10052.1983E65E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
	<CAEPJO1hbB3gPqXJVu=PZz-0=jg-Kr1-mBjWcyAXVgg7uGo+Pdw@mail.gmail.com>
	<C1F8D2F80FD44D039F6F1CC7716F9793@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <CAEPJO1i20vxQvn6bo9HeNfm95+Jc0RnL_=yatFUxeXYUGN3+Zg@mail.gmail.com>

What I have discovered since receiving these candles is that it is not even
necessary to light them. Merely holding them is enough to trigger the
effect: temperature seems the operant factor.

It's got to be chems within the wax. I have examined the remains very
carefully.

A.

From john at winhaven.net  Tue Feb 12 21:25:26 2013
From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 21:25:26 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] FYI: Microsoft's 128GB Surface Pro Sells Out
	At	MSOnline Store Just Hours After Launch
In-Reply-To: <62E3AEFDE4954F55ACAB4666D43CF0D8@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <1360495212.146344839@f377.i.mail.ru>	<51197691.19414.1426D84E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>	<B71B3A84CC3C4E429DA2DB3F8428B98F@creativesystemdesigns.com><1360688741.227781361@f75.mail.ru>	<00fa01ce0946$d17af4e0$7470dea0$@winhaven.net>
	<62E3AEFDE4954F55ACAB4666D43CF0D8@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <019101ce0999$c45f0190$4d1d04b0$@winhaven.net>

:-)

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 1:39 PM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] FYI: Microsoft's 128GB Surface Pro Sells Out At
MSOnline Store Just Hours After Launch

Hi all:

But they should as we know what we are talking about. ;-)

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 9:32 AM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] FYI: Microsoft's 128GB Surface Pro Sells Out At
MSOnline Store Just Hours After Launch

Shamil,
I wouldn't worry about it. There are pro-other products/companies/ideas
being posted here every day. No one is forced to read our posts ;-)

John B

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov
Shamil
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 11:06 AM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] FYI: Microsoft's 128GB Surface Pro Sells Out At MS
Online Store Just Hours After Launch

 Hi Jim and All --

I haven't seen before TechCrunch being "pro-Microsoft" so I have reposted
the link on their article without checking it. I'll be more careful in the
future.

Thank you.

-- Shamil

???????????, 11 ??????? 2013, 15:29 -08:00 ?? "Jim Lawrence"
<accessd at shaw.ca>:
>Hi Stuart:
>
>It is amazing how a good sales team can turn a disaster into a success 
>story.
>
>Jim
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From:  dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart 
>McLachlan
>Sent: Monday, February 11, 2013 2:54 PM
>To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>Subject: Re: [dba-Tech]FYI: Microsoft's 128GB Surface Pro Sells Out At 
>MS Online Store Just Hours After Launch
>
>The Reg sums it up;
>
>http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/02/11/surface_pro_shortages/
>"It's easy to sell out of sod all stock"
>
>:-)
>
>On 10 Feb 2013 at 15:20, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote:
>
>>  Hi All --
>> 
>> FYI:
>http://techcrunch.com/2013/02/09/microsofts-128gb-surface-pro-sells-out
>-at-m s-online-store-just-hours-after-launch/
>> 
>> Thank you.
>> 
>> -- SHamil
>> 
>> 
>

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From gustav at cactus.dk  Wed Feb 13 04:34:08 2013
From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 11:34:08 +0100
Subject: [dba-Tech] SPAM filter for Windows SBS 2011
Message-ID: <007a01ce09d5$a7b9aa90$f72cffb0$@cactus.dk>

Hi John and Stuart

> you could just as well get a corporate account at Google mail ..

I think I'll reconsider that advice ... at least advice to think twice.

http://www.scroogled.com/

<quote>
Even if you?re not a Gmail user, Google still goes through your personal
email sent to [and from] Gmail ..
</quote>

Scary.
Outlook.com claims to be different, but we only have MS' words for it.

/gustav


-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Gustav Brock
Sendt: 12. februar 2013 15:28
Til: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Emne: Re: [dba-Tech] SPAM filter for Windows SBS 2011

Hi John and Stuart

One severe issue with such services is, that you don't know who else might
be reading your incoming mail. I know, e-mail is like open postcards but
still.

If you (your client) is ready to take the step anyway, you could just as
well get a corporate account at Google mail or Microsoft, move your primary
MX to that, and set automatic forwarding of all mail to your local mail
server. This way you will even have automatic archiving of all incoming mail
at no added cost.

/gustav

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2013 4:32 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] SPAM filter for Windows SBS 2011

Depending on your cicrumstances, onlline filtering may the the way to go.

I resell these guys in PNG and am very impressed with them:

http://onlinespamsolutions.com/

--
Stuart 



From john at winhaven.net  Wed Feb 13 11:06:14 2013
From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 11:06:14 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] Scroogled (was: SPAM filter for Windows SBS 2011)
Message-ID: <00cc01ce0a0c$6e9d9730$4bd8c590$@winhaven.net>

Hi Gustav,
Thanks for the link. This is the reason I don't use gmail for anything other
than hobbies. Then I get targeted ads that I may actually use. Although I
rarely click on an ad, sometimes they're helpful. Facebook does the same
thing. I once typed in something on facebook about my asparagus patch and I
immediately had an ad placed for some page about asparagus. In that case it
was helpful, albeit a bit disconcerting how quickly it happened!

Makes one wonder, could we use this email scanning algorithm against itself;
or for ourselves? 
Is this a way a person could pump up their online "resume". Send emails with
"over the top" bragging about everything they've accomplished in life. Never
write anything other than ultra-positive messages. Maybe have all their
friends send them emails praising them about how "great they are". Just in
the attempt to affect google's impression of the person. I wonder what
effect that would have :-)

John B

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:34 AM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] SPAM filter for Windows SBS 2011

Hi John and Stuart

> you could just as well get a corporate account at Google mail ..

I think I'll reconsider that advice ... at least advice to think twice.

http://www.scroogled.com/

<quote>
Even if you?re not a Gmail user, Google still goes through your personal
email sent to [and from] Gmail ..
</quote>

Scary.
Outlook.com claims to be different, but we only have MS' words for it.

/gustav


-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Gustav Brock
Sendt: 12. februar 2013 15:28
Til: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Emne: Re: [dba-Tech] SPAM filter for Windows SBS 2011

Hi John and Stuart

One severe issue with such services is, that you don't know who else might
be reading your incoming mail. I know, e-mail is like open postcards but
still.

If you (your client) is ready to take the step anyway, you could just as
well get a corporate account at Google mail or Microsoft, move your primary
MX to that, and set automatic forwarding of all mail to your local mail
server. This way you will even have automatic archiving of all incoming mail
at no added cost.

/gustav

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2013 4:32 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] SPAM filter for Windows SBS 2011

Depending on your cicrumstances, onlline filtering may the the way to go.

I resell these guys in PNG and am very impressed with them:

http://onlinespamsolutions.com/

--
Stuart 


_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From john at winhaven.net  Wed Feb 13 11:11:26 2013
From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 11:11:26 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] Not reassuring - Symantec Responds to New York Times
	China Hack Report
Message-ID: <00d601ce0a0d$288dd740$79a985c0$@winhaven.net>

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2013/01/nyt-in-chinese-hack-symantec-a
nti-virus-failed-44-times/



From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Wed Feb 13 11:58:01 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 21:58:01 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech]
 =?utf-8?q?FYI=3A_Microsoft=27s_128GB_Surface_Pro_Sells?=
 =?utf-8?q?_Out_At_MS_Online_Store_Just_Hours_After_Launch?=
In-Reply-To: <00fa01ce0946$d17af4e0$7470dea0$@winhaven.net>
References: <1360495212.146344839@f377.i.mail.ru>
	<1360688741.227781361@f75.mail.ru>
	<00fa01ce0946$d17af4e0$7470dea0$@winhaven.net>
Message-ID: <1360778281.816441859@f287.mail.ru>

 Hi John --

Thank you. I'm not worrying - TechCrunch continues its "comics" series: "Fear Not, Surface Fans, More 128GB Surface Pros Should Be On Store Shelves By Saturday"

http://techcrunch.com/2013/02/12/fear-not-surface-fans-more-128gb-surface-pros-should-be-on-store-shelves-by-saturday/

Let's see what feedback (if any) the above article link will result in?:)

Thank you.

-- Shamil


???????, 12 ??????? 2013, 11:31 -06:00 ?? "John Bartow" <john at winhaven.net>:
>Shamil,
>I wouldn't worry about it. There are pro-other products/companies/ideas being posted here every day. No one is forced to read our posts ;-)
>
>John B
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From:  dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil
>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 11:06 AM
>To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] FYI: Microsoft's 128GB Surface Pro Sells Out At MS Online Store Just Hours After Launch
>
>?Hi Jim and All --
>
>I haven't seen before TechCrunch being "pro-Microsoft" so I have reposted the link on their article without checking it. I'll be more careful in the future.
>
>Thank you.
>
>-- Shamil
<<< skipped >>>
>

From accessd at shaw.ca  Wed Feb 13 12:09:55 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 10:09:55 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] "Intelligent" candles
In-Reply-To: <CAEPJO1i20vxQvn6bo9HeNfm95+Jc0RnL_=yatFUxeXYUGN3+Zg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEPJO1iNTRT2CTELcz8s8Je2qMuvHsbM93tEF4VSm=x6HRfHeg@mail.gmail.com><511ABCBF.14728.1920FA0B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><CAEPJO1j0FgsBoYLUGSV0Ci2kSW+NKOn3Br6jjCCA-f9ESDRmAA@mail.gmail.com><511AD611.10052.1983E65E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><CAEPJO1hbB3gPqXJVu=PZz-0=jg-Kr1-mBjWcyAXVgg7uGo+Pdw@mail.gmail.com><C1F8D2F80FD44D039F6F1CC7716F9793@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<CAEPJO1i20vxQvn6bo9HeNfm95+Jc0RnL_=yatFUxeXYUGN3+Zg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4DD922290CF04B608E192E159B37E42D@creativesystemdesigns.com>

For many years it was said that the light given by fire-flies was impossible
for humans to duplicate...it was assumed that all light require combustion
of some sort. 

We know that is not true...now.

I assume you have carefully checked the web for answers? It sounds like a
candle "mood-ring".

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 6:51 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] "Intelligent" candles

What I have discovered since receiving these candles is that it is not even
necessary to light them. Merely holding them is enough to trigger the
effect: temperature seems the operant factor.

It's got to be chems within the wax. I have examined the remains very
carefully.

A.
_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From accessd at shaw.ca  Wed Feb 13 12:16:51 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 10:16:51 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] SPAM filter for Windows SBS 2011
In-Reply-To: <007a01ce09d5$a7b9aa90$f72cffb0$@cactus.dk>
References: <007a01ce09d5$a7b9aa90$f72cffb0$@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <498920A37E9B46B980A769D433E4BA43@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Gustav:

So what you are saying is that be safe, install and use your own mail
server?

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 2:34 AM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] SPAM filter for Windows SBS 2011

Hi John and Stuart

> you could just as well get a corporate account at Google mail ..

I think I'll reconsider that advice ... at least advice to think twice.

http://www.scroogled.com/

<quote>
Even if you?re not a Gmail user, Google still goes through your personal
email sent to [and from] Gmail ..
</quote>

Scary.
Outlook.com claims to be different, but we only have MS' words for it.

/gustav


-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Gustav Brock
Sendt: 12. februar 2013 15:28
Til: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Emne: Re: [dba-Tech] SPAM filter for Windows SBS 2011

Hi John and Stuart

One severe issue with such services is, that you don't know who else might
be reading your incoming mail. I know, e-mail is like open postcards but
still.

If you (your client) is ready to take the step anyway, you could just as
well get a corporate account at Google mail or Microsoft, move your primary
MX to that, and set automatic forwarding of all mail to your local mail
server. This way you will even have automatic archiving of all incoming mail
at no added cost.

/gustav

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2013 4:32 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] SPAM filter for Windows SBS 2011

Depending on your cicrumstances, onlline filtering may the the way to go.

I resell these guys in PNG and am very impressed with them:

http://onlinespamsolutions.com/

--
Stuart 


_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From accessd at shaw.ca  Wed Feb 13 13:21:25 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 11:21:25 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Supercharge your excel spreadsheet
In-Reply-To: <CAEPJO1hbB3gPqXJVu=PZz-0=jg-Kr1-mBjWcyAXVgg7uGo+Pdw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEPJO1iNTRT2CTELcz8s8Je2qMuvHsbM93tEF4VSm=x6HRfHeg@mail.gmail.com><511ABCBF.14728.1920FA0B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><CAEPJO1j0FgsBoYLUGSV0Ci2kSW+NKOn3Br6jjCCA-f9ESDRmAA@mail.gmail.com><511AD611.10052.1983E65E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
	<CAEPJO1hbB3gPqXJVu=PZz-0=jg-Kr1-mBjWcyAXVgg7uGo+Pdw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C673582BD7DD4026A1A25D05128ED4AC@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi All:

We all know that Excel is the most common database in the world. It is
because it is so simple to use anyone can and almost anyone can visualize
how to manipulate the data. I even built a spreadsheet to do my income taxes
so you can see how simple it really is to design in.

Well, a company has taken this spreadsheet one step further and added Python
into the mix. This gives the spreadsheet the capability to pull data from
anywhere and build functions far more complex than what rudimentary VB
script can do.

For a single home user this program is free and the rates are reasonable for
small to large enterprises. They are even working on a Linux offering that
will work in Libra-calc and will work on the Microsoft Office Linux offering
that is scheduled to debut, in 2014. 

https://www.datanitro.com/

Jim 


From accessd at shaw.ca  Wed Feb 13 13:58:12 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 11:58:12 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Oracle has made some bold claims
In-Reply-To: <C673582BD7DD4026A1A25D05128ED4AC@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <CAEPJO1iNTRT2CTELcz8s8Je2qMuvHsbM93tEF4VSm=x6HRfHeg@mail.gmail.com><511ABCBF.14728.1920FA0B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><CAEPJO1j0FgsBoYLUGSV0Ci2kSW+NKOn3Br6jjCCA-f9ESDRmAA@mail.gmail.com><511AD611.10052.1983E65E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><CAEPJO1hbB3gPqXJVu=PZz-0=jg-Kr1-mBjWcyAXVgg7uGo+Pdw@mail.gmail.com>
	<C673582BD7DD4026A1A25D05128ED4AC@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <F015BA8DE27D461981E9422ADD856664@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi All:

Recently, Oracle has made some bold claims as to the capabilities of the new
MySQL 5x...that MySQL now has NoSQL features. 

To add more coals to the fire between SQL and NoSQL camps, I decided to post
this following article from Cassandra, one of the leading reduced mapset
developers...and they say:

"...it's tough to tell whether Oracle got this so wrong deliberately to sow
confusion in the market, or because they really think that's what NoSQL is
about. ". They are politely saying, "Either Oracle is lying or just plain
stupid."

http://www.datastax.com/dev/blog/oracles-mysql-misses-the-nosql-mark

It is a good over-sight.

Jim


From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Wed Feb 13 14:16:09 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 00:16:09 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech]
 =?utf-8?q?FYI=3A_Microsoft=27s_128GB_Surface_Pro_Sells?=
 =?utf-8?q?_Out_At_MS_Online_Store_Just_Hours_After_Launch?=
In-Reply-To: <540FC25B0B874D728FDD69315ECEC19F@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <1360495212.146344839@f377.i.mail.ru>
	<1360688741.227781361@f75.mail.ru>
	<540FC25B0B874D728FDD69315ECEC19F@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <1360786569.975738509@f214.mail.ru>

 Hi Jim --

<<<
Mixing, matching and mashups is the new tech future.
>>>
Agreed.

But one cannot be a good, even satisfactory, "jack of many (software development/tech.) trades".
The tech. future IMO are standards, industrialization and specialization.
Industrialization doesn't mean (here) that there will be no place for "one jack"/SMB software development/tech. companies - industrialization means that custom software development to be?competitive?will have to be driven by well educated in computer science and application development (process) engineers and managers, engineers and managers who will be taught to use "the right tool for the right job" and when for a certain project/task they will find they aren't skilled enough to apply the most suitable tool(s) they will effectively delegate that project/job to a third-party and acquire/integrate the results of their work via standard/custom (web) APIs.

-- Shamil


???????, 12 ??????? 2013, 11:38 -08:00 ?? "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca>:
>Hi Shamil:
>
>I would be far from anti-Microsoft especially as I have made a very good living from the OS. I must admit I would definitely like to change the direction in so many ways...ways that would open up more opportunities than less but my name is not Steve Ballmer. 
>
>I doubt whether any company will gain control of ninety-five percent of the market, ever again but that is hardly a bad situation for techs...it is just that we have to be a jack of more trades now. 
>
>Mixing, matching and mashups is the new tech future. 
>
>Jim 
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From:  dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil
>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 9:06 AM
>To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] FYI: Microsoft's 128GB Surface Pro Sells Out At MS Online Store Just Hours After Launch
>
>?Hi Jim and All --
>
>I haven't seen before TechCrunch being "pro-Microsoft" so I have reposted the link on their article without checking it. I'll be more careful in the future.
>
>Thank you.
>
>-- Shamil
<<< skipped >>>
>

From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Wed Feb 13 14:16:18 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 00:16:18 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech]
 =?utf-8?q?FYI=3A_Microsoft=27s_128GB_Surface_Pro_Sells?=
 =?utf-8?q?_Out_At_MS_Online_Store_Just_Hours_After_Launch?=
In-Reply-To: <540FC25B0B874D728FDD69315ECEC19F@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <1360495212.146344839@f377.i.mail.ru>
	<1360688741.227781361@f75.mail.ru>
	<540FC25B0B874D728FDD69315ECEC19F@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <1360786578.459557095@f324.mail.ru>

 Hi Jim --

<<<
Mixing, matching and mashups is the new tech future.
>>>
Agreed.

But one cannot be a good, even satisfactory, "jack of many (software development/tech.) trades".
The tech. future IMO are standards, industrialization and specialization.
Industrialization doesn't mean (here) that there will be no place for "one jack"/SMB software development/tech. companies - industrialization means that custom software development to be?competitive?will have to be driven by well educated in computer science and application development (process) engineers and managers, engineers and managers who will be taught to use "the right tool for the right job" and when for a certain project/task they will find they aren't skilled enough to apply the most suitable tool(s) they will effectively delegate that project/job to a third-party and acquire/integrate the results of their work via standard/custom (web) APIs.

-- Shamil


???????, 12 ??????? 2013, 11:38 -08:00 ?? "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca>:
>Hi Shamil:
>
>I would be far from anti-Microsoft especially as I have made a very good living from the OS. I must admit I would definitely like to change the direction in so many ways...ways that would open up more opportunities than less but my name is not Steve Ballmer. 
>
>I doubt whether any company will gain control of ninety-five percent of the market, ever again but that is hardly a bad situation for techs...it is just that we have to be a jack of more trades now. 
>
>Mixing, matching and mashups is the new tech future. 
>
>Jim 
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From:  dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil
>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 9:06 AM
>To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] FYI: Microsoft's 128GB Surface Pro Sells Out At MS Online Store Just Hours After Launch
>
>?Hi Jim and All --
>
>I haven't seen before TechCrunch being "pro-Microsoft" so I have reposted the link on their article without checking it. I'll be more careful in the future.
>
>Thank you.
>
>-- Shamil
<<< skipped >>>
>

From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Wed Feb 13 14:46:20 2013
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 06:46:20 +1000
Subject: [dba-Tech] Supercharge your excel spreadsheet
In-Reply-To: <C673582BD7DD4026A1A25D05128ED4AC@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <CAEPJO1iNTRT2CTELcz8s8Je2qMuvHsbM93tEF4VSm=x6HRfHeg@mail.gmail.com>,
	<CAEPJO1hbB3gPqXJVu=PZz-0=jg-Kr1-mBjWcyAXVgg7uGo+Pdw@mail.gmail.com>,
	<C673582BD7DD4026A1A25D05128ED4AC@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <511BFB9C.2184.1DFE8E38@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

How many "home users" can program in Pyrthon?

On 13 Feb 2013 at 11:21, Jim Lawrence wrote:

> Hi All:
> 
> We all know that Excel is the most common database in the world. It is
> because it is so simple to use anyone can and almost anyone can visualize
> how to manipulate the data. I even built a spreadsheet to do my income taxes
> so you can see how simple it really is to design in.
> 
> Well, a company has taken this spreadsheet one step further and added Python
> into the mix. This gives the spreadsheet the capability to pull data from
> anywhere and build functions far more complex than what rudimentary VB
> script can do.
> 
> For a single home user this program is free and the rates are reasonable for
> small to large enterprises. They are even working on a Linux offering that
> will work in Libra-calc and will work on the Microsoft Office Linux offering
> that is scheduled to debut, in 2014. 
> 
> https://www.datanitro.com/
> 
> Jim 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 



From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Wed Feb 13 14:46:20 2013
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 06:46:20 +1000
Subject: [dba-Tech] SPAM filter for Windows SBS 2011
In-Reply-To: <498920A37E9B46B980A769D433E4BA43@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <007a01ce09d5$a7b9aa90$f72cffb0$@cactus.dk>,
	<498920A37E9B46B980A769D433E4BA43@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <511BFB9C.6731.1DFE8DEA@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

Hi Jim,

It's when you install your own mail server that online services which prefilter are important.  
They aviod clogging your bandwidth with spam by filtering it before it hits your "last mile"

-- 
Stuart

On 13 Feb 2013 at 10:16, Jim Lawrence wrote:

> Hi Gustav:
> 
> So what you are saying is that be safe, install and use your own mail
> server?
> 
> Jim
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 2:34 AM
> To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] SPAM filter for Windows SBS 2011
> 
> Hi John and Stuart
> 
> > you could just as well get a corporate account at Google mail ..
> 
> I think I'll reconsider that advice ... at least advice to think twice.
> 
> http://www.scroogled.com/
> 
> <quote>
> Even if you?re not a Gmail user, Google still goes through your personal
> email sent to [and from] Gmail ..
> </quote>
> 
> Scary.
> Outlook.com claims to be different, but we only have MS' words for it.
> 
> /gustav
> 
> 
> -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
> Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Gustav Brock
> Sendt: 12. februar 2013 15:28
> Til: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
> Emne: Re: [dba-Tech] SPAM filter for Windows SBS 2011
> 
> Hi John and Stuart
> 
> One severe issue with such services is, that you don't know who else might
> be reading your incoming mail. I know, e-mail is like open postcards but
> still.
> 
> If you (your client) is ready to take the step anyway, you could just as
> well get a corporate account at Google mail or Microsoft, move your primary
> MX to that, and set automatic forwarding of all mail to your local mail
> server. This way you will even have automatic archiving of all incoming mail
> at no added cost.
> 
> /gustav
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan
> Sent: Monday, February 11, 2013 4:32 PM
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] SPAM filter for Windows SBS 2011
> 
> Depending on your cicrumstances, onlline filtering may the the way to go.
> 
> I resell these guys in PNG and am very impressed with them:
> 
> http://onlinespamsolutions.com/
> 
> --
> Stuart 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 




From peter.brawley at earthlink.net  Wed Feb 13 14:48:51 2013
From: peter.brawley at earthlink.net (Peter Brawley)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 14:48:51 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] Oracle has made some bold claims
In-Reply-To: <F015BA8DE27D461981E9422ADD856664@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <CAEPJO1iNTRT2CTELcz8s8Je2qMuvHsbM93tEF4VSm=x6HRfHeg@mail.gmail.com><511ABCBF.14728.1920FA0B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><CAEPJO1j0FgsBoYLUGSV0Ci2kSW+NKOn3Br6jjCCA-f9ESDRmAA@mail.gmail.com><511AD611.10052.1983E65E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><CAEPJO1hbB3gPqXJVu=PZz-0=jg-Kr1-mBjWcyAXVgg7uGo+Pdw@mail.gmail.com>
	<C673582BD7DD4026A1A25D05128ED4AC@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<F015BA8DE27D461981E9422ADD856664@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <511BFC33.80007@earthlink.net>

On 2013-02-13 1:58 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote:
> Hi All:
>
> Recently, Oracle has made some bold claims as to the capabilities of the new
> MySQL 5x...that MySQL now has NoSQL features.
>
> To add more coals to the fire between SQL and NoSQL camps, I decided to post
> this following article from Cassandra, one of the leading reduced mapset
> developers...and they say:
>
> "...it's tough to tell whether Oracle got this so wrong deliberately to sow
> confusion in the market, or because they really think that's what NoSQL is
> about. ". They are politely saying, "Either Oracle is lying or just plain
> stupid."

The guy writing the release prob'ly doesn't know. His boss likely does.

PB

>
> http://www.datastax.com/dev/blog/oracles-mysql-misses-the-nosql-mark
>
> It is a good over-sight.
>
> Jim
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>


From gustav at cactus.dk  Wed Feb 13 14:53:56 2013
From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 21:53:56 +0100
Subject: [dba-Tech] SPAM filter for Windows SBS 2011
Message-ID: <s11c0b8f.020@cactus.dk>

Hi Jim

I don't know really. The add match thing is mostly relevant if you use the Gmail web-interface but who knows if Google also compares your IP address when searching with the IP address used by your IMAP or POP3 client? If you are paranoid, dark ages are certainly facing you.

We have a spamfilter service here like the one Stuart mentions. Once I called them on behalf of a client because of some trouble, and the first-line techie could at once from the log list the  in and outgoing mail traffic by senders and receivers during the last hours. It was an eye-opener. The client was a Public Relations Agency, and you know what kind of confidential stuff may be interchanged in that business. And there you were with a who-know-what youngster able to follow that traffic and, probably, reading it as well should he wish to. The client even paid these people.

This is where the ISPs may be different. I don't think they read your mail because it serves no purpose only adding costs. It's different for Google and Yahoo - it is fuel for them - and the authorities who scan for very different purposes not related to money.

So I think I prefer to run my own mail server and own spam filter and believe in the "open postcard" scenario; the postman doesn't read all postcards he brings out - there is not enough time, and the obtained information would be mostly useless.

/gustav


>>> accessd at shaw.ca 13-02-13 19:16 >>>
Hi Gustav:

So what you are saying is that be safe, install and use your own mail server?

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 2:34 AM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] SPAM filter for Windows SBS 2011

Hi John and Stuart

> you could just as well get a corporate account at Google mail ..

I think I'll reconsider that advice ... at least advice to think twice.

http://www.scroogled.com/

<quote>
Even if you're not a Gmail user, Google still goes through your personal email sent to [and from] Gmail ..
</quote>

Scary.
Outlook.com claims to be different, but we only have MS' words for it.

/gustav


-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Gustav Brock
Sendt: 12. februar 2013 15:28
Til: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Emne: Re: [dba-Tech] SPAM filter for Windows SBS 2011

Hi John and Stuart

One severe issue with such services is, that you don't know who else might
be reading your incoming mail. I know, e-mail is like open postcards but
still.

If you (your client) is ready to take the step anyway, you could just as
well get a corporate account at Google mail or Microsoft, move your primary
MX to that, and set automatic forwarding of all mail to your local mail
server. This way you will even have automatic archiving of all incoming mail
at no added cost.

/gustav

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2013 4:32 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] SPAM filter for Windows SBS 2011

Depending on your cicrumstances, onlline filtering may the the way to go.

I resell these guys in PNG and am very impressed with them:

http://onlinespamsolutions.com/

--
Stuart 


From eptept at gmail.com  Wed Feb 13 14:59:40 2013
From: eptept at gmail.com (Ed Tesiny)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 15:59:40 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] "Intelligent" candles
In-Reply-To: <4DD922290CF04B608E192E159B37E42D@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <CAEPJO1iNTRT2CTELcz8s8Je2qMuvHsbM93tEF4VSm=x6HRfHeg@mail.gmail.com>
	<511ABCBF.14728.1920FA0B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
	<CAEPJO1j0FgsBoYLUGSV0Ci2kSW+NKOn3Br6jjCCA-f9ESDRmAA@mail.gmail.com>
	<511AD611.10052.1983E65E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
	<CAEPJO1hbB3gPqXJVu=PZz-0=jg-Kr1-mBjWcyAXVgg7uGo+Pdw@mail.gmail.com>
	<C1F8D2F80FD44D039F6F1CC7716F9793@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<CAEPJO1i20vxQvn6bo9HeNfm95+Jc0RnL_=yatFUxeXYUGN3+Zg@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DD922290CF04B608E192E159B37E42D@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <CAEkqQpWVXK13aZdpH1+vnjDoiG-bZp-k9YpU8rjfh=drL-6JQQ@mail.gmail.com>

Is this what your referring to

http://www.airwick.us/videos.php

On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 1:09 PM, Jim Lawrence <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:

> For many years it was said that the light given by fire-flies was
> impossible
> for humans to duplicate...it was assumed that all light require combustion
> of some sort.
>
> We know that is not true...now.
>
> I assume you have carefully checked the web for answers? It sounds like a
> candle "mood-ring".
>
> Jim
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller
> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 6:51 PM
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] "Intelligent" candles
>
> What I have discovered since receiving these candles is that it is not even
> necessary to light them. Merely holding them is enough to trigger the
> effect: temperature seems the operant factor.
>
> It's got to be chems within the wax. I have examined the remains very
> carefully.
>
> A.
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>

From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Wed Feb 13 15:08:39 2013
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 07:08:39 +1000
Subject: [dba-Tech] SPAM filter for Windows SBS 2011
In-Reply-To: <s11c0b8f.020@cactus.dk>
References: <s11c0b8f.020@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <511C00D7.3302.1E12FD20@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

Yep, I *can* read any message sitting in any IMAP/POP3 mailbox of any of the clients I host.

I *can* also see read any of my clients SMTP email that has passed through the spam filter 
service in the last 30 days.

So can any other ISP, but we have more important things to do.

 -- 
Stuart

On 13 Feb 2013 at 21:53, Gustav Brock wrote:

> Hi Jim
> 
> I don't know really. The add match thing is mostly relevant if you use
> the Gmail web-interface but who knows if Google also compares your IP
> address when searching with the IP address used by your IMAP or POP3
> client? If you are paranoid, dark ages are certainly facing you. 
> 
> We have a spamfilter service here like the one Stuart mentions. Once I
> called them on behalf of a client because of some trouble, and the
> first-line techie could at once from the log list the  in and outgoing
> mail traffic by senders and receivers during the last hours. It was an
> eye-opener. The client was a Public Relations Agency, and you know
> what kind of confidential stuff may be interchanged in that business.
> And there you were with a who-know-what youngster able to follow that
> traffic and, probably, reading it as well should he wish to. The
> client even paid these people. 
> 
> This is where the ISPs may be different. I don't think they read your
> mail because it serves no purpose only adding costs. It's different
> for Google and Yahoo - it is fuel for them - and the authorities who
> scan for very different purposes not related to money. 
> 
> So I think I prefer to run my own mail server and own spam filter and
> believe in the "open postcard" scenario; the postman doesn't read all
> postcards he brings out - there is not enough time, and the obtained
> information would be mostly useless. 
> 
> /gustav
> 
> 
> >>> accessd at shaw.ca 13-02-13 19:16 >>>
> Hi Gustav:
> 
> So what you are saying is that be safe, install and use your own mail server?
> 
> Jim
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 2:34 AM
> To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] SPAM filter for Windows SBS 2011
> 
> Hi John and Stuart
> 
> > you could just as well get a corporate account at Google mail ..
> 
> I think I'll reconsider that advice ... at least advice to think twice.
> 
> http://www.scroogled.com/
> 
> <quote>
> Even if you're not a Gmail user, Google still goes through your personal email sent to [and from] Gmail ..
> </quote>
> 
> Scary.
> Outlook.com claims to be different, but we only have MS' words for it.
> 
> /gustav
> 
> 
> -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
> Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Gustav Brock
> Sendt: 12. februar 2013 15:28
> Til: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
> Emne: Re: [dba-Tech] SPAM filter for Windows SBS 2011
> 
> Hi John and Stuart
> 
> One severe issue with such services is, that you don't know who else might
> be reading your incoming mail. I know, e-mail is like open postcards but
> still.
> 
> If you (your client) is ready to take the step anyway, you could just as
> well get a corporate account at Google mail or Microsoft, move your primary
> MX to that, and set automatic forwarding of all mail to your local mail
> server. This way you will even have automatic archiving of all incoming mail
> at no added cost.
> 
> /gustav
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan
> Sent: Monday, February 11, 2013 4:32 PM
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] SPAM filter for Windows SBS 2011
> 
> Depending on your cicrumstances, onlline filtering may the the way to go.
> 
> I resell these guys in PNG and am very impressed with them:
> 
> http://onlinespamsolutions.com/
> 
> --
> Stuart 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 




From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Wed Feb 13 15:09:34 2013
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 07:09:34 +1000
Subject: [dba-Tech] "Intelligent" candles
In-Reply-To: <CAEkqQpWVXK13aZdpH1+vnjDoiG-bZp-k9YpU8rjfh=drL-6JQQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEPJO1iNTRT2CTELcz8s8Je2qMuvHsbM93tEF4VSm=x6HRfHeg@mail.gmail.com>,
	<4DD922290CF04B608E192E159B37E42D@creativesystemdesigns.com>,
	<CAEkqQpWVXK13aZdpH1+vnjDoiG-bZp-k9YpU8rjfh=drL-6JQQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <511C010E.21711.1E13D4F8@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

Airwick is one of those that use LEDs, not thermochromic dyes,


On 13 Feb 2013 at 15:59, Ed Tesiny wrote:

> Is this what your referring to
> 
> http://www.airwick.us/videos.php
> 
> On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 1:09 PM, Jim Lawrence <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:
> 
> > For many years it was said that the light given by fire-flies was
> > impossible
> > for humans to duplicate...it was assumed that all light require combustion
> > of some sort.
> >
> > We know that is not true...now.
> >
> > I assume you have carefully checked the web for answers? It sounds like a
> > candle "mood-ring".
> >
> > Jim
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 6:51 PM
> > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] "Intelligent" candles
> >
> > What I have discovered since receiving these candles is that it is not even
> > necessary to light them. Merely holding them is enough to trigger the
> > effect: temperature seems the operant factor.
> >
> > It's got to be chems within the wax. I have examined the remains very
> > carefully.
> >
> > A.
> > _______________________________________________
> > dba-Tech mailing list
> > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > dba-Tech mailing list
> > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 



From gustav at cactus.dk  Wed Feb 13 15:18:59 2013
From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 22:18:59 +0100
Subject: [dba-Tech] SPAM filter for Windows SBS 2011
Message-ID: <s11c116b.021@cactus.dk>

Hi Stuart

That depends. Spamfilters like SpamBunker do not fetch the incoming spam, they block it because of malformed communication with the sending engine which nearly always is a bot with no patience. Thus, net traffic is few bytes only per session.
Of course, that doesn't stop spam sent from "monkey"-accounts at, say, Yahoo and AOL. These mails you will have to download and filter by reading the content. A zero issue here, but I know from you that the situation where you operate is quite different.

/gustav

>>> stuart at lexacorp.com.pg 13-02-13 21:46 >>>
Hi Jim,

It's when you install your own mail server that online services which prefilter are important.  
They aviod clogging your bandwidth with spam by filtering it before it hits your "last mile"

-- 
Stuart

On 13 Feb 2013 at 10:16, Jim Lawrence wrote:

> Hi Gustav:
> 
> So what you are saying is that be safe, install and use your own mail
> server?
> 
> Jim
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 2:34 AM
> To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] SPAM filter for Windows SBS 2011
> 
> Hi John and Stuart
> 
> > you could just as well get a corporate account at Google mail ..
> 
> I think I'll reconsider that advice ... at least advice to think twice.
> 
> http://www.scroogled.com/
> 
> <quote>
> Even if you?re not a Gmail user, Google still goes through your personal
> email sent to [and from] Gmail ..
> </quote>
> 
> Scary.
> Outlook.com claims to be different, but we only have MS' words for it.
> 
> /gustav
> 
> 
> -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
> Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Gustav Brock
> Sendt: 12. februar 2013 15:28
> Til: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
> Emne: Re: [dba-Tech] SPAM filter for Windows SBS 2011
> 
> Hi John and Stuart
> 
> One severe issue with such services is, that you don't know who else might
> be reading your incoming mail. I know, e-mail is like open postcards but
> still.
> 
> If you (your client) is ready to take the step anyway, you could just as
> well get a corporate account at Google mail or Microsoft, move your primary
> MX to that, and set automatic forwarding of all mail to your local mail
> server. This way you will even have automatic archiving of all incoming mail
> at no added cost.
> 
> /gustav
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan
> Sent: Monday, February 11, 2013 4:32 PM
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] SPAM filter for Windows SBS 2011
> 
> Depending on your cicrumstances, onlline filtering may the the way to go.
> 
> I resell these guys in PNG and am very impressed with them:
> 
> http://onlinespamsolutions.com/
> 
> --
> Stuart 


From accessd at shaw.ca  Wed Feb 13 15:25:13 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 13:25:13 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] FYI: Microsoft's 128GB Surface Pro Sells Out At MS
	Online Store Just Hours After Launch
In-Reply-To: <1360786578.459557095@f324.mail.ru>
References: <1360495212.146344839@f377.i.mail.ru><1360688741.227781361@f75.mail.ru><540FC25B0B874D728FDD69315ECEC19F@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<1360786578.459557095@f324.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <584DC99D082544FA932709D03D090F9A@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Shamil:

What you have stated is very true. One tech can not be the best at all
disciplines.

But I do feel that one tech should have a good understanding of the
available options and solutions. There is never one solution to a problem
but many and any number would produce adequate results. That Awareness is
what is most important.

Like a carpenter, who can builds a house but must be aware of the
requirements of the plumber, electrician, mason, roofer, etc... 

Modern companies when they hire a new tech are not so much concerned with
what the tech knows but their ability to learn new technologies and apply
them. Every company knows that within ten years everything that tech
initially arrived with will be gone or changed to the point of being
unrecognizable.

And this leads into another good point you brought up; "Standards". This is
most important or the industry, or just the company that refuses to adapt,
will be gone, in but a few years.

One comment that I do not fully agree with is the concept that there is,
"the right tool for the right job". In this industry there are many tools,
for every job and each can produce, in the right hands, the required
results.    
 
As I have said before., "I know many more dead-languages than I know live
ones."...and that list is getting longer every day. So forgive my lack of
loyalty to any company or product; my only loyalty should be to the client.

Jim 

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov
Shamil
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 12:16 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] FYI: Microsoft's 128GB Surface Pro Sells Out At MS
Online Store Just Hours After Launch

 Hi Jim --

<<<
Mixing, matching and mashups is the new tech future.
>>>
Agreed.

But one cannot be a good, even satisfactory, "jack of many (software
development/tech.) trades".
The tech. future IMO are standards, industrialization and specialization.
Industrialization doesn't mean (here) that there will be no place for "one
jack"/SMB software development/tech. companies - industrialization means
that custom software development to be?competitive?will have to be driven by
well educated in computer science and application development (process)
engineers and managers, engineers and managers who will be taught to use
"the right tool for the right job" and when for a certain project/task they
will find they aren't skilled enough to apply the most suitable tool(s) they
will effectively delegate that project/job to a third-party and
acquire/integrate the results of their work via standard/custom (web) APIs.

-- Shamil


???????, 12 ??????? 2013, 11:38 -08:00 ?? "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca>:
>Hi Shamil:
>
>I would be far from anti-Microsoft especially as I have made a very good
living from the OS. I must admit I would definitely like to change the
direction in so many ways...ways that would open up more opportunities than
less but my name is not Steve Ballmer. 
>
>I doubt whether any company will gain control of ninety-five percent of the
market, ever again but that is hardly a bad situation for techs...it is just
that we have to be a jack of more trades now. 
>
>Mixing, matching and mashups is the new tech future. 
>
>Jim 
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From:  dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov
Shamil
>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 9:06 AM
>To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] FYI: Microsoft's 128GB Surface Pro Sells Out At MS
Online Store Just Hours After Launch
>
>?Hi Jim and All --
>
>I haven't seen before TechCrunch being "pro-Microsoft" so I have reposted
the link on their article without checking it. I'll be more careful in the
future.
>
>Thank you.
>
>-- Shamil
<<< skipped >>>
>
_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From gustav at cactus.dk  Wed Feb 13 15:25:16 2013
From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 22:25:16 +0100
Subject: [dba-Tech] SPAM filter for Windows SBS 2011
Message-ID: <s11c12f1.022@cactus.dk>

Hi Stuart

Yes, and you are a decent guy, and I guess your clients know because they know you personally. That's makes a - or rather the - difference.

/gustav


>>> stuart at lexacorp.com.pg 13-02-13 22:08 >>>
Yep, I *can* read any message sitting in any IMAP/POP3 mailbox of any of the clients I host.

I *can* also see read any of my clients SMTP email that has passed through the spam filter 
service in the last 30 days.

So can any other ISP, but we have more important things to do.

 -- 
Stuart

On 13 Feb 2013 at 21:53, Gustav Brock wrote:

> Hi Jim
> 
> I don't know really. The add match thing is mostly relevant if you use
> the Gmail web-interface but who knows if Google also compares your IP
> address when searching with the IP address used by your IMAP or POP3
> client? If you are paranoid, dark ages are certainly facing you. 
> 
> We have a spamfilter service here like the one Stuart mentions. Once I
> called them on behalf of a client because of some trouble, and the
> first-line techie could at once from the log list the  in and outgoing
> mail traffic by senders and receivers during the last hours. It was an
> eye-opener. The client was a Public Relations Agency, and you know
> what kind of confidential stuff may be interchanged in that business.
> And there you were with a who-know-what youngster able to follow that
> traffic and, probably, reading it as well should he wish to. The
> client even paid these people. 
> 
> This is where the ISPs may be different. I don't think they read your
> mail because it serves no purpose only adding costs. It's different
> for Google and Yahoo - it is fuel for them - and the authorities who
> scan for very different purposes not related to money. 
> 
> So I think I prefer to run my own mail server and own spam filter and
> believe in the "open postcard" scenario; the postman doesn't read all
> postcards he brings out - there is not enough time, and the obtained
> information would be mostly useless. 
> 
> /gustav
> 
> 
> >>> accessd at shaw.ca 13-02-13 19:16 >>>
> Hi Gustav:
> 
> So what you are saying is that be safe, install and use your own mail server?
> 
> Jim


From accessd at shaw.ca  Wed Feb 13 15:29:21 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 13:29:21 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Supercharge your excel spreadsheet
In-Reply-To: <511BFB9C.2184.1DFE8E38@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
References: <CAEPJO1iNTRT2CTELcz8s8Je2qMuvHsbM93tEF4VSm=x6HRfHeg@mail.gmail.com>,
	<CAEPJO1hbB3gPqXJVu=PZz-0=jg-Kr1-mBjWcyAXVgg7uGo+Pdw@mail.gmail.com>,
	<C673582BD7DD4026A1A25D05128ED4AC@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<511BFB9C.2184.1DFE8E38@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
Message-ID: <0909931E6A884CEABE04C20F245B32D3@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Stuart:

Good point, Stuart. (Pyrthon ???) ...but how many users actually even
understand VB script for that matter?

I smell another business opportunity. :-)

Jim  

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 12:46 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Supercharge your excel spreadsheet

How many "home users" can program in Pyrthon?

On 13 Feb 2013 at 11:21, Jim Lawrence wrote:

> Hi All:
> 
> We all know that Excel is the most common database in the world. It is
> because it is so simple to use anyone can and almost anyone can visualize
> how to manipulate the data. I even built a spreadsheet to do my income
taxes
> so you can see how simple it really is to design in.
> 
> Well, a company has taken this spreadsheet one step further and added
Python
> into the mix. This gives the spreadsheet the capability to pull data from
> anywhere and build functions far more complex than what rudimentary VB
> script can do.
> 
> For a single home user this program is free and the rates are reasonable
for
> small to large enterprises. They are even working on a Linux offering that
> will work in Libra-calc and will work on the Microsoft Office Linux
offering
> that is scheduled to debut, in 2014. 
> 
> https://www.datanitro.com/
> 
> Jim 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 


_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From accessd at shaw.ca  Wed Feb 13 15:34:57 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 13:34:57 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] SPAM filter for Windows SBS 2011
In-Reply-To: <511BFB9C.6731.1DFE8DEA@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
References: <007a01ce09d5$a7b9aa90$f72cffb0$@cactus.dk>,
	<498920A37E9B46B980A769D433E4BA43@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<511BFB9C.6731.1DFE8DEA@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
Message-ID: <67542E3735B84001B2D3431C96CC7333@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Stuart:

...the master of email services. 

I am lucky that my ISP dumps most spam before it even arrives and that
leaves little work in clean up. The additional benefit is that your emails
are no longer driving Google's advertisement campaigns.

Jim  

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 12:46 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] SPAM filter for Windows SBS 2011

Hi Jim,

It's when you install your own mail server that online services which
prefilter are important.  
They aviod clogging your bandwidth with spam by filtering it before it hits
your "last mile"

-- 
Stuart

On 13 Feb 2013 at 10:16, Jim Lawrence wrote:

> Hi Gustav:
> 
> So what you are saying is that be safe, install and use your own mail
> server?
> 
> Jim
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 2:34 AM
> To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] SPAM filter for Windows SBS 2011
> 
> Hi John and Stuart
> 
> > you could just as well get a corporate account at Google mail ..
> 
> I think I'll reconsider that advice ... at least advice to think twice.
> 
> http://www.scroogled.com/
> 
> <quote>
> Even if you?re not a Gmail user, Google still goes through your personal
> email sent to [and from] Gmail ..
> </quote>
> 
> Scary.
> Outlook.com claims to be different, but we only have MS' words for it.
> 
> /gustav
> 
> 
> -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
> Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Gustav Brock
> Sendt: 12. februar 2013 15:28
> Til: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
> Emne: Re: [dba-Tech] SPAM filter for Windows SBS 2011
> 
> Hi John and Stuart
> 
> One severe issue with such services is, that you don't know who else might
> be reading your incoming mail. I know, e-mail is like open postcards but
> still.
> 
> If you (your client) is ready to take the step anyway, you could just as
> well get a corporate account at Google mail or Microsoft, move your
primary
> MX to that, and set automatic forwarding of all mail to your local mail
> server. This way you will even have automatic archiving of all incoming
mail
> at no added cost.
> 
> /gustav
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart
McLachlan
> Sent: Monday, February 11, 2013 4:32 PM
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] SPAM filter for Windows SBS 2011
> 
> Depending on your cicrumstances, onlline filtering may the the way to go.
> 
> I resell these guys in PNG and am very impressed with them:
> 
> http://onlinespamsolutions.com/
> 
> --
> Stuart 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 



_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From accessd at shaw.ca  Wed Feb 13 15:41:04 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 13:41:04 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Oracle has made some bold claims
In-Reply-To: <511BFC33.80007@earthlink.net>
References: <CAEPJO1iNTRT2CTELcz8s8Je2qMuvHsbM93tEF4VSm=x6HRfHeg@mail.gmail.com><511ABCBF.14728.1920FA0B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><CAEPJO1j0FgsBoYLUGSV0Ci2kSW+NKOn3Br6jjCCA-f9ESDRmAA@mail.gmail.com><511AD611.10052.1983E65E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><CAEPJO1hbB3gPqXJVu=PZz-0=jg-Kr1-mBjWcyAXVgg7uGo+Pdw@mail.gmail.com><C673582BD7DD4026A1A25D05128ED4AC@creativesystemdesigns.com><F015BA8DE27D461981E9422ADD856664@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<511BFC33.80007@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <9AE0032F4372462F842182FFC6666F9B@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Peter:

I am just guessing of course, but the writer may have figured it out on his
own. Have you ever noticed, in around twenty years in the business, a tech
starts to develop a certain cynicism and distrust of certain major players
and I just don't know why? :-)

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Peter Brawley
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 12:49 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Oracle has made some bold claims

On 2013-02-13 1:58 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote:
> Hi All:
>
> Recently, Oracle has made some bold claims as to the capabilities of the
new
> MySQL 5x...that MySQL now has NoSQL features.
>
> To add more coals to the fire between SQL and NoSQL camps, I decided to
post
> this following article from Cassandra, one of the leading reduced mapset
> developers...and they say:
>
> "...it's tough to tell whether Oracle got this so wrong deliberately to
sow
> confusion in the market, or because they really think that's what NoSQL is
> about. ". They are politely saying, "Either Oracle is lying or just plain
> stupid."

The guy writing the release prob'ly doesn't know. His boss likely does.

PB

>
> http://www.datastax.com/dev/blog/oracles-mysql-misses-the-nosql-mark
>
> It is a good over-sight.
>
> Jim
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From accessd at shaw.ca  Wed Feb 13 16:11:44 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 14:11:44 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] SPAM filter for Windows SBS 2011
In-Reply-To: <s11c0b8f.020@cactus.dk>
References: <s11c0b8f.020@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <27D34AAECF1342C19D9C305460FE9ADC@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Gustav:

It is hardly that I do not trust a company like Google, it is just the
realization that if you are not paying for a product then you are the
product. 

When, I was still in the business and was working with many banks and
trading houses all their correspondence was done through encrypted VPNs Some
using a proprietary 512 bit double encryption system...far beyond the
capabilties of any person or government to de-encrypt...today at least.
(Talk about paranoid) They took no chances that private and personal
information would be open to the general public or some third-party mail
distributor. While within their institutions there was no employee access to
such clients as Facebook or GMail period...for obvious reasons.

I also worked for CSIS, the Canadian version of the US CIA, through the
provincial government and they were even more paranoid.

Needless to say, all their mail services were in house.

As the old saying goes, "If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to
fear."

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 12:54 PM
To: dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] SPAM filter for Windows SBS 2011

Hi Jim

I don't know really. The add match thing is mostly relevant if you use the
Gmail web-interface but who knows if Google also compares your IP address
when searching with the IP address used by your IMAP or POP3 client? If you
are paranoid, dark ages are certainly facing you.

We have a spamfilter service here like the one Stuart mentions. Once I
called them on behalf of a client because of some trouble, and the
first-line techie could at once from the log list the  in and outgoing mail
traffic by senders and receivers during the last hours. It was an
eye-opener. The client was a Public Relations Agency, and you know what kind
of confidential stuff may be interchanged in that business. And there you
were with a who-know-what youngster able to follow that traffic and,
probably, reading it as well should he wish to. The client even paid these
people.

This is where the ISPs may be different. I don't think they read your mail
because it serves no purpose only adding costs. It's different for Google
and Yahoo - it is fuel for them - and the authorities who scan for very
different purposes not related to money.

So I think I prefer to run my own mail server and own spam filter and
believe in the "open postcard" scenario; the postman doesn't read all
postcards he brings out - there is not enough time, and the obtained
information would be mostly useless.

/gustav


>>> accessd at shaw.ca 13-02-13 19:16 >>>
Hi Gustav:

So what you are saying is that be safe, install and use your own mail
server?

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 2:34 AM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] SPAM filter for Windows SBS 2011

Hi John and Stuart

> you could just as well get a corporate account at Google mail ..

I think I'll reconsider that advice ... at least advice to think twice.

http://www.scroogled.com/

<quote>
Even if you're not a Gmail user, Google still goes through your personal
email sent to [and from] Gmail ..
</quote>

Scary.
Outlook.com claims to be different, but we only have MS' words for it.

/gustav


-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Gustav Brock
Sendt: 12. februar 2013 15:28
Til: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Emne: Re: [dba-Tech] SPAM filter for Windows SBS 2011

Hi John and Stuart

One severe issue with such services is, that you don't know who else might
be reading your incoming mail. I know, e-mail is like open postcards but
still.

If you (your client) is ready to take the step anyway, you could just as
well get a corporate account at Google mail or Microsoft, move your primary
MX to that, and set automatic forwarding of all mail to your local mail
server. This way you will even have automatic archiving of all incoming mail
at no added cost.

/gustav

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2013 4:32 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] SPAM filter for Windows SBS 2011

Depending on your cicrumstances, onlline filtering may the the way to go.

I resell these guys in PNG and am very impressed with them:

http://onlinespamsolutions.com/

--
Stuart 

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From accessd at shaw.ca  Wed Feb 13 16:15:28 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 14:15:28 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] "Intelligent" candles
In-Reply-To: <CAEkqQpWVXK13aZdpH1+vnjDoiG-bZp-k9YpU8rjfh=drL-6JQQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEPJO1iNTRT2CTELcz8s8Je2qMuvHsbM93tEF4VSm=x6HRfHeg@mail.gmail.com><511ABCBF.14728.1920FA0B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><CAEPJO1j0FgsBoYLUGSV0Ci2kSW+NKOn3Br6jjCCA-f9ESDRmAA@mail.gmail.com><511AD611.10052.1983E65E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><CAEPJO1hbB3gPqXJVu=PZz-0=jg-Kr1-mBjWcyAXVgg7uGo+Pdw@mail.gmail.com><C1F8D2F80FD44D039F6F1CC7716F9793@creativesystemdesigns.com><CAEPJO1i20vxQvn6bo9HeNfm95+Jc0RnL_=yatFUxeXYUGN3+Zg@mail.gmail.com><4DD922290CF04B608E192E159B37E42D@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<CAEkqQpWVXK13aZdpH1+vnjDoiG-bZp-k9YpU8rjfh=drL-6JQQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A2993E2D9F9D446FAAFED3C58878044E@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Ed:

It sounds like it; so what is the secret to getting the gooey center inside
the chocolate?

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Ed Tesiny
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 1:00 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] "Intelligent" candles

Is this what your referring to

http://www.airwick.us/videos.php

On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 1:09 PM, Jim Lawrence <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:

> For many years it was said that the light given by fire-flies was
> impossible
> for humans to duplicate...it was assumed that all light require combustion
> of some sort.
>
> We know that is not true...now.
>
> I assume you have carefully checked the web for answers? It sounds like a
> candle "mood-ring".
>
> Jim
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller
> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 6:51 PM
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] "Intelligent" candles
>
> What I have discovered since receiving these candles is that it is not
even
> necessary to light them. Merely holding them is enough to trigger the
> effect: temperature seems the operant factor.
>
> It's got to be chems within the wax. I have examined the remains very
> carefully.
>
> A.
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From eptept at gmail.com  Wed Feb 13 18:48:11 2013
From: eptept at gmail.com (Ed Tesiny)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 19:48:11 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] "Intelligent" candles
In-Reply-To: <A2993E2D9F9D446FAAFED3C58878044E@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <CAEPJO1iNTRT2CTELcz8s8Je2qMuvHsbM93tEF4VSm=x6HRfHeg@mail.gmail.com>
	<511ABCBF.14728.1920FA0B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
	<CAEPJO1j0FgsBoYLUGSV0Ci2kSW+NKOn3Br6jjCCA-f9ESDRmAA@mail.gmail.com>
	<511AD611.10052.1983E65E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
	<CAEPJO1hbB3gPqXJVu=PZz-0=jg-Kr1-mBjWcyAXVgg7uGo+Pdw@mail.gmail.com>
	<C1F8D2F80FD44D039F6F1CC7716F9793@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<CAEPJO1i20vxQvn6bo9HeNfm95+Jc0RnL_=yatFUxeXYUGN3+Zg@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DD922290CF04B608E192E159B37E42D@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<CAEkqQpWVXK13aZdpH1+vnjDoiG-bZp-k9YpU8rjfh=drL-6JQQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<A2993E2D9F9D446FAAFED3C58878044E@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <CAEkqQpXBc-hexz3u0kzdjNsxjn_ThhoBDbPRd5Yw3-Bswtjh=Q@mail.gmail.com>

Jim,
I confused, "gooey center inside the chocolate"...???

On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 5:15 PM, Jim Lawrence <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:

> Hi Ed:
>
> It sounds like it; so what is the secret to getting the gooey center inside
> the chocolate?
>
> Jim
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Ed Tesiny
> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 1:00 PM
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] "Intelligent" candles
>
> Is this what your referring to
>
> http://www.airwick.us/videos.php
>
> On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 1:09 PM, Jim Lawrence <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:
>
> > For many years it was said that the light given by fire-flies was
> > impossible
> > for humans to duplicate...it was assumed that all light require
> combustion
> > of some sort.
> >
> > We know that is not true...now.
> >
> > I assume you have carefully checked the web for answers? It sounds like a
> > candle "mood-ring".
> >
> > Jim
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur
> Fuller
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 6:51 PM
> > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] "Intelligent" candles
> >
> > What I have discovered since receiving these candles is that it is not
> even
> > necessary to light them. Merely holding them is enough to trigger the
> > effect: temperature seems the operant factor.
> >
> > It's got to be chems within the wax. I have examined the remains very
> > carefully.
> >
> > A.
> > _______________________________________________
> > dba-Tech mailing list
> > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > dba-Tech mailing list
> > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>

From fuller.artful at gmail.com  Wed Feb 13 20:13:17 2013
From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 21:13:17 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] "Intelligent" candles
In-Reply-To: <CAEkqQpXBc-hexz3u0kzdjNsxjn_ThhoBDbPRd5Yw3-Bswtjh=Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEPJO1iNTRT2CTELcz8s8Je2qMuvHsbM93tEF4VSm=x6HRfHeg@mail.gmail.com>
	<511ABCBF.14728.1920FA0B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
	<CAEPJO1j0FgsBoYLUGSV0Ci2kSW+NKOn3Br6jjCCA-f9ESDRmAA@mail.gmail.com>
	<511AD611.10052.1983E65E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
	<CAEPJO1hbB3gPqXJVu=PZz-0=jg-Kr1-mBjWcyAXVgg7uGo+Pdw@mail.gmail.com>
	<C1F8D2F80FD44D039F6F1CC7716F9793@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<CAEPJO1i20vxQvn6bo9HeNfm95+Jc0RnL_=yatFUxeXYUGN3+Zg@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DD922290CF04B608E192E159B37E42D@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<CAEkqQpWVXK13aZdpH1+vnjDoiG-bZp-k9YpU8rjfh=drL-6JQQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<A2993E2D9F9D446FAAFED3C58878044E@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<CAEkqQpXBc-hexz3u0kzdjNsxjn_ThhoBDbPRd5Yw3-Bswtjh=Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEPJO1iJ-8JpG=pYi8fo7LON41FxxbJArS+xQHS35z1DHb4juQ@mail.gmail.com>

Yup, that's it. The one that looks like a drinking glass. The LEDs must be
really tiny.

Anyway, problem solved. Thanks!
A.

From hans.andersen at phulse.com  Wed Feb 13 20:24:01 2013
From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 18:24:01 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] FYI: Microsoft's 128GB Surface Pro Sells Out At MS
	Online Store Just Hours After Launch
In-Reply-To: <1360786569.975738509@f214.mail.ru>
References: <1360495212.146344839@f377.i.mail.ru>
	<1360688741.227781361@f75.mail.ru>
	<540FC25B0B874D728FDD69315ECEC19F@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<1360786569.975738509@f214.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <7A057820-563D-4855-9D61-AA1A38AC5EA6@phulse.com>

I have to disagree. In fact, I think that is the world we came from and these days technology is evolving at such a pace that it is impossible to be a specialist in anything.

It is far more desirable to have someone who has a decent understanding of many things and be able to wear many hats. Someone who knows enough to be easily be brought up to speed on your project.

And this can also be reason based purely on economic factors. A specialist can demand far more in compensation and, in economic times like these, companies and startups are a bit more spend thrift.

- Hans


On 2013-02-13, at 12:16 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil <mcp2004 at mail.ru> wrote:

> Hi Jim --
> 
> <<<
> Mixing, matching and mashups is the new tech future.
> Agreed.
> 
> But one cannot be a good, even satisfactory, "jack of many (software development/tech.) trades".
> The tech. future IMO are standards, industrialization and specialization.
> Industrialization doesn't mean (here) that there will be no place for "one jack"/SMB software development/tech. companies - industrialization means that custom software development to be competitive will have to be driven by well educated in computer science and application development (process) engineers and managers, engineers and managers who will be taught to use "the right tool for the right job" and when for a certain project/task they will find they aren't skilled enough to apply the most suitable tool(s) they will effectively delegate that project/job to a third-party and acquire/integrate the results of their work via standard/custom (web) APIs.
> 
> -- Shamil
> 
> 
> ???????, 12 ??????? 2013, 11:38 -08:00 ?? "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca>:
>> Hi Shamil:
>> 
>> I would be far from anti-Microsoft especially as I have made a very good living from the OS. I must admit I would definitely like to change the direction in so many ways...ways that would open up more opportunities than less but my name is not Steve Ballmer. 
>> 
>> I doubt whether any company will gain control of ninety-five percent of the market, ever again but that is hardly a bad situation for techs...it is just that we have to be a jack of more trades now. 
>> 
>> Mixing, matching and mashups is the new tech future. 
>> 
>> Jim 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From:  dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 9:06 AM
>> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] FYI: Microsoft's 128GB Surface Pro Sells Out At MS Online Store Just Hours After Launch
>> 
>>  Hi Jim and All --
>> 
>> I haven't seen before TechCrunch being "pro-Microsoft" so I have reposted the link on their article without checking it. I'll be more careful in the future.
>> 
>> Thank you.
>> 
>> -- Shamil
> <<< skipped >>>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From fuller.artful at gmail.com  Wed Feb 13 20:31:03 2013
From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 21:31:03 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] Supercharge your excel spreadsheet
In-Reply-To: <0909931E6A884CEABE04C20F245B32D3@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <CAEPJO1iNTRT2CTELcz8s8Je2qMuvHsbM93tEF4VSm=x6HRfHeg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEPJO1hbB3gPqXJVu=PZz-0=jg-Kr1-mBjWcyAXVgg7uGo+Pdw@mail.gmail.com>
	<C673582BD7DD4026A1A25D05128ED4AC@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<511BFB9C.2184.1DFE8E38@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
	<0909931E6A884CEABE04C20F245B32D3@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <CAEPJO1jOb=GabDQWcqrek+G5zza69jXBRtGFfRaT0bPzYTf3DA@mail.gmail.com>

The "Home" version is not intended for your average user, but rather for
students and developers interested in exploring the technology and learning
it. It's equivalent to the Express versions of Visual Studio. You can learn
the product and then peddle solutions to companies, which will pay for a
commercial license to the product.

So far I've kicked the tires. Soon I'll begin a more in-depth exploration.
But I think this is a potentially great idea. There are some Python math
and statistical libraries that provide functionality far beyond what's
built into Excel. I have one client in particular that makes use of a vast
number of spreadsheets (about 200 per month).

A.

From hans.andersen at phulse.com  Wed Feb 13 21:07:58 2013
From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 19:07:58 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] FYI: Microsoft's 128GB Surface Pro Sells Out At MS
	Online Store Just Hours After Launch
In-Reply-To: <584DC99D082544FA932709D03D090F9A@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <1360495212.146344839@f377.i.mail.ru>
	<1360688741.227781361@f75.mail.ru>
	<540FC25B0B874D728FDD69315ECEC19F@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<1360786578.459557095@f324.mail.ru>
	<584DC99D082544FA932709D03D090F9A@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <799A766B-6ED1-4FFC-8F2C-C1EB0A0A621B@phulse.com>

Hi Jim

Looks like you and I are on the same page here. :)

I'd also like to add to your comment about "right tool for the job". These days, as you say, there are an overwhelming amount of tools that can be used to the same result. Where I see real competition between languages and frameworks these days is in ideas, style and convention.

Adopting a language/framework is less about if its "the right tool for the job" and more about whether you like the characteristics and philosophies of the language/framework.

Case in point: the Ruby on Rails phenomenon. Love it or not, there are a lot of good ideas and a lot of those ideas are being adopted by other languages/frameworks. Rails was a real push to change our way of looking at programming like it is a blank slate and you are handed a box of random tools, which includes a gun to shoot yourself in the foot with, as typically happens in a lot of software projects. Rails knows what it wants to be, but not only that but it also wants you to understand its philosophies and steer you in a certain direction. It's called convention over configuration and, like I said, a lot of other languages/frameworks are adopting these ideas, so it's not even Rails specific now - ie. look at Java Play.

So, its not necessarily what is the right tool for the job anymore but what is the right philosophy and approach as well.


- Hans


On 2013-02-13, at 1:25 PM, "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:

> Hi Shamil:
> 
> What you have stated is very true. One tech can not be the best at all
> disciplines.
> 
> But I do feel that one tech should have a good understanding of the
> available options and solutions. There is never one solution to a problem
> but many and any number would produce adequate results. That Awareness is
> what is most important.
> 
> Like a carpenter, who can builds a house but must be aware of the
> requirements of the plumber, electrician, mason, roofer, etc... 
> 
> Modern companies when they hire a new tech are not so much concerned with
> what the tech knows but their ability to learn new technologies and apply
> them. Every company knows that within ten years everything that tech
> initially arrived with will be gone or changed to the point of being
> unrecognizable.
> 
> And this leads into another good point you brought up; "Standards". This is
> most important or the industry, or just the company that refuses to adapt,
> will be gone, in but a few years.
> 
> One comment that I do not fully agree with is the concept that there is,
> "the right tool for the right job". In this industry there are many tools,
> for every job and each can produce, in the right hands, the required
> results.    
> 
> As I have said before., "I know many more dead-languages than I know live
> ones."...and that list is getting longer every day. So forgive my lack of
> loyalty to any company or product; my only loyalty should be to the client.
> 
> Jim 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov
> Shamil
> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 12:16 PM
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] FYI: Microsoft's 128GB Surface Pro Sells Out At MS
> Online Store Just Hours After Launch
> 
> Hi Jim --
> 
> <<<
> Mixing, matching and mashups is the new tech future.
> Agreed.
> 
> But one cannot be a good, even satisfactory, "jack of many (software
> development/tech.) trades".
> The tech. future IMO are standards, industrialization and specialization.
> Industrialization doesn't mean (here) that there will be no place for "one
> jack"/SMB software development/tech. companies - industrialization means
> that custom software development to be competitive will have to be driven by
> well educated in computer science and application development (process)
> engineers and managers, engineers and managers who will be taught to use
> "the right tool for the right job" and when for a certain project/task they
> will find they aren't skilled enough to apply the most suitable tool(s) they
> will effectively delegate that project/job to a third-party and
> acquire/integrate the results of their work via standard/custom (web) APIs.
> 
> -- Shamil
> 
> 
> ???????, 12 ??????? 2013, 11:38 -08:00 ?? "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca>:
>> Hi Shamil:
>> 
>> I would be far from anti-Microsoft especially as I have made a very good
> living from the OS. I must admit I would definitely like to change the
> direction in so many ways...ways that would open up more opportunities than
> less but my name is not Steve Ballmer. 
>> 
>> I doubt whether any company will gain control of ninety-five percent of the
> market, ever again but that is hardly a bad situation for techs...it is just
> that we have to be a jack of more trades now. 
>> 
>> Mixing, matching and mashups is the new tech future. 
>> 
>> Jim 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From:  dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov
> Shamil
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 9:06 AM
>> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] FYI: Microsoft's 128GB Surface Pro Sells Out At MS
> Online Store Just Hours After Launch
>> 
>>  Hi Jim and All --
>> 
>> I haven't seen before TechCrunch being "pro-Microsoft" so I have reposted
> the link on their article without checking it. I'll be more careful in the
> future.
>> 
>> Thank you.
>> 
>> -- Shamil
> <<< skipped >>>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From accessd at shaw.ca  Wed Feb 13 21:46:47 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 19:46:47 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] "Intelligent" candles
In-Reply-To: <CAEkqQpXBc-hexz3u0kzdjNsxjn_ThhoBDbPRd5Yw3-Bswtjh=Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEPJO1iNTRT2CTELcz8s8Je2qMuvHsbM93tEF4VSm=x6HRfHeg@mail.gmail.com><511ABCBF.14728.1920FA0B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><CAEPJO1j0FgsBoYLUGSV0Ci2kSW+NKOn3Br6jjCCA-f9ESDRmAA@mail.gmail.com><511AD611.10052.1983E65E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><CAEPJO1hbB3gPqXJVu=PZz-0=jg-Kr1-mBjWcyAXVgg7uGo+Pdw@mail.gmail.com><C1F8D2F80FD44D039F6F1CC7716F9793@creativesystemdesigns.com><CAEPJO1i20vxQvn6bo9HeNfm95+Jc0RnL_=yatFUxeXYUGN3+Zg@mail.gmail.com><4DD922290CF04B608E192E159B37E42D@creativesystemdesigns.com><CAEkqQpWVXK13aZdpH1+vnjDoiG-bZp-k9YpU8rjfh=drL-6JQQ@mail.gmail.com><A2993E2D9F9D446FAAFED3C58878044E@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<CAEkqQpXBc-hexz3u0kzdjNsxjn_ThhoBDbPRd5Yw3-Bswtjh=Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <729E4921FACD495AB6041578F92F5862@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Ed:

It was referring to a rather famous chocolate ad that asked the question and
posed it as a secret, on how the creamy centers were put in their
chocolates. I do not remember the name of the chocolate or company so I
guess the ad was a failure. ;-)

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Ed Tesiny
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:48 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] "Intelligent" candles

Jim,
I confused, "gooey center inside the chocolate"...???

On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 5:15 PM, Jim Lawrence <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:

> Hi Ed:
>
> It sounds like it; so what is the secret to getting the gooey center
inside
> the chocolate?
>
> Jim
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Ed Tesiny
> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 1:00 PM
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] "Intelligent" candles
>
> Is this what your referring to
>
> http://www.airwick.us/videos.php
>
> On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 1:09 PM, Jim Lawrence <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:
>
> > For many years it was said that the light given by fire-flies was
> > impossible
> > for humans to duplicate...it was assumed that all light require
> combustion
> > of some sort.
> >
> > We know that is not true...now.
> >
> > I assume you have carefully checked the web for answers? It sounds like
a
> > candle "mood-ring".
> >
> > Jim
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur
> Fuller
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 6:51 PM
> > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> > Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] "Intelligent" candles
> >
> > What I have discovered since receiving these candles is that it is not
> even
> > necessary to light them. Merely holding them is enough to trigger the
> > effect: temperature seems the operant factor.
> >
> > It's got to be chems within the wax. I have examined the remains very
> > carefully.
> >
> > A.
> > _______________________________________________
> > dba-Tech mailing list
> > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > dba-Tech mailing list
> > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From accessd at shaw.ca  Wed Feb 13 21:47:35 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 19:47:35 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] "Intelligent" candles
In-Reply-To: <CAEPJO1iJ-8JpG=pYi8fo7LON41FxxbJArS+xQHS35z1DHb4juQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEPJO1iNTRT2CTELcz8s8Je2qMuvHsbM93tEF4VSm=x6HRfHeg@mail.gmail.com><511ABCBF.14728.1920FA0B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><CAEPJO1j0FgsBoYLUGSV0Ci2kSW+NKOn3Br6jjCCA-f9ESDRmAA@mail.gmail.com><511AD611.10052.1983E65E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><CAEPJO1hbB3gPqXJVu=PZz-0=jg-Kr1-mBjWcyAXVgg7uGo+Pdw@mail.gmail.com><C1F8D2F80FD44D039F6F1CC7716F9793@creativesystemdesigns.com><CAEPJO1i20vxQvn6bo9HeNfm95+Jc0RnL_=yatFUxeXYUGN3+Zg@mail.gmail.com><4DD922290CF04B608E192E159B37E42D@creativesystemdesigns.com><CAEkqQpWVXK13aZdpH1+vnjDoiG-bZp-k9YpU8rjfh=drL-6JQQ@mail.gmail.com><A2993E2D9F9D446FAAFED3C58878044E@creativesystemdesigns.com><CAEkqQpXBc-hexz3u0kzdjNsxjn_ThhoBDbPRd5Yw3-Bswtjh=Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEPJO1iJ-8JpG=pYi8fo7LON41FxxbJArS+xQHS35z1DHb4juQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C914C556619541C690F2868C0C129C38@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Arthur:

Finally, a good nights sleep. ;-)

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 6:13 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] "Intelligent" candles

Yup, that's it. The one that looks like a drinking glass. The LEDs must be
really tiny.

Anyway, problem solved. Thanks!
A.
_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From accessd at shaw.ca  Wed Feb 13 22:03:14 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 20:03:14 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Supercharge your excel spreadsheet
In-Reply-To: <CAEPJO1jOb=GabDQWcqrek+G5zza69jXBRtGFfRaT0bPzYTf3DA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEPJO1iNTRT2CTELcz8s8Je2qMuvHsbM93tEF4VSm=x6HRfHeg@mail.gmail.com><CAEPJO1hbB3gPqXJVu=PZz-0=jg-Kr1-mBjWcyAXVgg7uGo+Pdw@mail.gmail.com><C673582BD7DD4026A1A25D05128ED4AC@creativesystemdesigns.com><511BFB9C.2184.1DFE8E38@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><0909931E6A884CEABE04C20F245B32D3@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<CAEPJO1jOb=GabDQWcqrek+G5zza69jXBRtGFfRaT0bPzYTf3DA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8C1261A411D34D77B1C3F2B8EA1EBB05@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Arthur:

That is good to hear. You might to be able to have fun and even make some
money at the same time.

Keep us posted on your adventures with the product. I wonder how technically
difficult the product is to design? 

Aside: Early this morning I posted a request for more information on the
product and some fellow, from the company replied that they were looking at
Linux but nothing solid yet. Then it was followed by an email, from someone
else who simply said they were not going to be making a Linux/Libra-Calc
product. Just to tease, I responded asking whether they would be OK with us
(implying a company) making an equivalent Linux product. This evening an
email arrived saying, something like you had better not...suggesting but not
out right saying legal action... That did make me laugh but now I know they
are seriously looking at a Linux version or why would they care. ;-) 
  
Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 6:31 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Supercharge your excel spreadsheet

The "Home" version is not intended for your average user, but rather for
students and developers interested in exploring the technology and learning
it. It's equivalent to the Express versions of Visual Studio. You can learn
the product and then peddle solutions to companies, which will pay for a
commercial license to the product.

So far I've kicked the tires. Soon I'll begin a more in-depth exploration.
But I think this is a potentially great idea. There are some Python math
and statistical libraries that provide functionality far beyond what's
built into Excel. I have one client in particular that makes use of a vast
number of spreadsheets (about 200 per month).

A.
_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From accessd at shaw.ca  Wed Feb 13 22:06:10 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 20:06:10 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] FYI: Microsoft's 128GB Surface Pro Sells Out At
	MSOnline Store Just Hours After Launch
In-Reply-To: <799A766B-6ED1-4FFC-8F2C-C1EB0A0A621B@phulse.com>
References: <1360495212.146344839@f377.i.mail.ru><1360688741.227781361@f75.mail.ru><540FC25B0B874D728FDD69315ECEC19F@creativesystemdesigns.com><1360786578.459557095@f324.mail.ru><584DC99D082544FA932709D03D090F9A@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<799A766B-6ED1-4FFC-8F2C-C1EB0A0A621B@phulse.com>
Message-ID: <615FDF72BA444E93BC717F053E78793B@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Hans:

The Zen of programming. ;-)

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian
Andersen
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 7:08 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] FYI: Microsoft's 128GB Surface Pro Sells Out At
MSOnline Store Just Hours After Launch

Hi Jim

Looks like you and I are on the same page here. :)

I'd also like to add to your comment about "right tool for the job". These
days, as you say, there are an overwhelming amount of tools that can be used
to the same result. Where I see real competition between languages and
frameworks these days is in ideas, style and convention.

Adopting a language/framework is less about if its "the right tool for the
job" and more about whether you like the characteristics and philosophies of
the language/framework.

Case in point: the Ruby on Rails phenomenon. Love it or not, there are a lot
of good ideas and a lot of those ideas are being adopted by other
languages/frameworks. Rails was a real push to change our way of looking at
programming like it is a blank slate and you are handed a box of random
tools, which includes a gun to shoot yourself in the foot with, as typically
happens in a lot of software projects. Rails knows what it wants to be, but
not only that but it also wants you to understand its philosophies and steer
you in a certain direction. It's called convention over configuration and,
like I said, a lot of other languages/frameworks are adopting these ideas,
so it's not even Rails specific now - ie. look at Java Play.

So, its not necessarily what is the right tool for the job anymore but what
is the right philosophy and approach as well.


- Hans


On 2013-02-13, at 1:25 PM, "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:

> Hi Shamil:
> 
> What you have stated is very true. One tech can not be the best at all
> disciplines.
> 
> But I do feel that one tech should have a good understanding of the
> available options and solutions. There is never one solution to a problem
> but many and any number would produce adequate results. That Awareness is
> what is most important.
> 
> Like a carpenter, who can builds a house but must be aware of the
> requirements of the plumber, electrician, mason, roofer, etc... 
> 
> Modern companies when they hire a new tech are not so much concerned with
> what the tech knows but their ability to learn new technologies and apply
> them. Every company knows that within ten years everything that tech
> initially arrived with will be gone or changed to the point of being
> unrecognizable.
> 
> And this leads into another good point you brought up; "Standards". This
is
> most important or the industry, or just the company that refuses to adapt,
> will be gone, in but a few years.
> 
> One comment that I do not fully agree with is the concept that there is,
> "the right tool for the right job". In this industry there are many tools,
> for every job and each can produce, in the right hands, the required
> results.    
> 
> As I have said before., "I know many more dead-languages than I know live
> ones."...and that list is getting longer every day. So forgive my lack of
> loyalty to any company or product; my only loyalty should be to the
client.
> 
> Jim 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov
> Shamil
> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 12:16 PM
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] FYI: Microsoft's 128GB Surface Pro Sells Out At MS
> Online Store Just Hours After Launch
> 
> Hi Jim --
> 
> <<<
> Mixing, matching and mashups is the new tech future.
> Agreed.
> 
> But one cannot be a good, even satisfactory, "jack of many (software
> development/tech.) trades".
> The tech. future IMO are standards, industrialization and specialization.
> Industrialization doesn't mean (here) that there will be no place for "one
> jack"/SMB software development/tech. companies - industrialization means
> that custom software development to be competitive will have to be driven
by
> well educated in computer science and application development (process)
> engineers and managers, engineers and managers who will be taught to use
> "the right tool for the right job" and when for a certain project/task
they
> will find they aren't skilled enough to apply the most suitable tool(s)
they
> will effectively delegate that project/job to a third-party and
> acquire/integrate the results of their work via standard/custom (web)
APIs.
> 
> -- Shamil
> 
> 
> ???????, 12 ??????? 2013, 11:38 -08:00 ?? "Jim Lawrence"
<accessd at shaw.ca>:
>> Hi Shamil:
>> 
>> I would be far from anti-Microsoft especially as I have made a very good
> living from the OS. I must admit I would definitely like to change the
> direction in so many ways...ways that would open up more opportunities
than
> less but my name is not Steve Ballmer. 
>> 
>> I doubt whether any company will gain control of ninety-five percent of
the
> market, ever again but that is hardly a bad situation for techs...it is
just
> that we have to be a jack of more trades now. 
>> 
>> Mixing, matching and mashups is the new tech future. 
>> 
>> Jim 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From:  dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov
> Shamil
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 9:06 AM
>> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] FYI: Microsoft's 128GB Surface Pro Sells Out At
MS
> Online Store Just Hours After Launch
>> 
>>  Hi Jim and All --
>> 
>> I haven't seen before TechCrunch being "pro-Microsoft" so I have reposted
> the link on their article without checking it. I'll be more careful in the
> future.
>> 
>> Thank you.
>> 
>> -- Shamil
> <<< skipped >>>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From peter.brawley at earthlink.net  Wed Feb 13 22:27:13 2013
From: peter.brawley at earthlink.net (Peter Brawley)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 22:27:13 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] Oracle has made some bold claims
In-Reply-To: <9AE0032F4372462F842182FFC6666F9B@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <CAEPJO1iNTRT2CTELcz8s8Je2qMuvHsbM93tEF4VSm=x6HRfHeg@mail.gmail.com><511ABCBF.14728.1920FA0B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><CAEPJO1j0FgsBoYLUGSV0Ci2kSW+NKOn3Br6jjCCA-f9ESDRmAA@mail.gmail.com><511AD611.10052.1983E65E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><CAEPJO1hbB3gPqXJVu=PZz-0=jg-Kr1-mBjWcyAXVgg7uGo+Pdw@mail.gmail.com><C673582BD7DD4026A1A25D05128ED4AC@creativesystemdesigns.com><F015BA8DE27D461981E9422ADD856664@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<511BFC33.80007@earthlink.net>
	<9AE0032F4372462F842182FFC6666F9B@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <511C67A1.4070409@earthlink.net>

On 2013-02-13 3:41 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote:
> Hi Peter:
>
> I am just guessing of course, but the writer may have figured it out on his
> own. Have you ever noticed, in around twenty years in the business, a tech
> starts to develop a certain cynicism and distrust of certain major players
> and I just don't know why? :-)

Sure, but I've also known a lotta corporate types who were perfectly 
willing to train their minds to obey.

PB

-----

>
> Jim
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Peter Brawley
> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 12:49 PM
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Oracle has made some bold claims
>
> On 2013-02-13 1:58 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote:
>> Hi All:
>>
>> Recently, Oracle has made some bold claims as to the capabilities of the
> new
>> MySQL 5x...that MySQL now has NoSQL features.
>>
>> To add more coals to the fire between SQL and NoSQL camps, I decided to
> post
>> this following article from Cassandra, one of the leading reduced mapset
>> developers...and they say:
>>
>> "...it's tough to tell whether Oracle got this so wrong deliberately to
> sow
>> confusion in the market, or because they really think that's what NoSQL is
>> about. ". They are politely saying, "Either Oracle is lying or just plain
>> stupid."
> The guy writing the release prob'ly doesn't know. His boss likely does.
>
> PB
>
>> http://www.datastax.com/dev/blog/oracles-mysql-misses-the-nosql-mark
>>
>> It is a good over-sight.
>>
>> Jim
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> dba-Tech mailing list
>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>


From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Thu Feb 14 00:04:34 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 10:04:34 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech] =?utf-8?q?Supercharge_your_excel_spreadsheet?=
In-Reply-To: <0909931E6A884CEABE04C20F245B32D3@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <CAEPJO1iNTRT2CTELcz8s8Je2qMuvHsbM93tEF4VSm=x6HRfHeg@mail.gmail.com>
	<511BFB9C.2184.1DFE8E38@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
	<0909931E6A884CEABE04C20F245B32D3@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <1360821874.706955815@f308.mail.ru>

 Hi Jim --

<<<
I smell another business opportunity. :-)
>>>
As Stuart I'm rather skeptical?about this "supercharge approach". I mean: AFAIU they use DLL(s) or COM Add-in to communicate with Python interpreter - that promise to be rather slow at runtime.

To "supercharge (excel/libra-calc) worksheets" I'd use something like OpenXML SDK with Python web services providing absent in MS Excel/libra-calc financial (modeling) packages functionality...

IMO the approach they propose is yet another potential source of very crappy, slow, having high support costs custom apps we've got so much with VB6 and VBA in 90-ies and 00-ies...

I can be wrong.

Thank you.

-- Shamil

?????, 13 ??????? 2013, 13:29 -08:00 ?? "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca>:
>Hi Stuart:
>
>Good point, Stuart. (Pyrthon ???) ...but how many users actually even
>understand VB script for that matter?
>
>I smell another business opportunity. :-)
>
>Jim 
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From:  dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan
>Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 12:46 PM
>To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Supercharge your excel spreadsheet
>
>How many "home users" can program in Pyrthon?
>
>On 13 Feb 2013 at 11:21, Jim Lawrence wrote:
>
>> Hi All:
>> 
>> We all know that Excel is the most common database in the world. It is
>> because it is so simple to use anyone can and almost anyone can visualize
>> how to manipulate the data. I even built a spreadsheet to do my income
>taxes
>> so you can see how simple it really is to design in.
>> 
>> Well, a company has taken this spreadsheet one step further and added
>Python
>> into the mix. This gives the spreadsheet the capability to pull data from
>> anywhere and build functions far more complex than what rudimentary VB
>> script can do.
>> 
>> For a single home user this program is free and the rates are reasonable
>for
>> small to large enterprises. They are even working on a Linux offering that
>> will work in Libra-calc and will work on the Microsoft Office Linux
>offering
>> that is scheduled to debut, in 2014. 
>> 
>>  https://www.datanitro.com/
>> 
>> Jim 
>> 
>


From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Thu Feb 14 00:14:44 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 10:14:44 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech]
 =?utf-8?q?FYI=3A_Microsoft=27s_128GB_Surface_Pro_Sells?=
 =?utf-8?q?_Out_At_MS_Online_Store_Just_Hours_After_Launch?=
In-Reply-To: <7A057820-563D-4855-9D61-AA1A38AC5EA6@phulse.com>
References: <1360495212.146344839@f377.i.mail.ru>
	<1360786569.975738509@f214.mail.ru>
	<7A057820-563D-4855-9D61-AA1A38AC5EA6@phulse.com>
Message-ID: <1360822484.955769714@f308.mail.ru>

 Hi Hans --

There is no way to be good (I mean?competitive) at many (programming) technologies, especially modern programming technologies. That conclusion comes from experience of many developers.

One thing is to have a good understanding - and a very different thing is to have a good *working experience* - it takes years to master the latter. What a specialist will make in hours will require days from a "jack of all trades". So "high rates" of specialists would be more than affordable - in fact they will be the one of the main "drives" of the economy.?Period.

Thank you.

-- Shamil

?????, 13 ??????? 2013, 18:24 -08:00 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen <hans.andersen at phulse.com>:
>I have to disagree. In fact, I think that is the world we came from and these days technology is evolving at such a pace that it is impossible to be a specialist in anything.
>
>It is far more desirable to have someone who has a decent understanding of many things and be able to wear many hats. Someone who knows enough to be easily be brought up to speed on your project.
>
>And this can also be reason based purely on economic factors. A specialist can demand far more in compensation and, in economic times like these, companies and startups are a bit more spend thrift.
>
>- Hans
>
>
>On 2013-02-13, at 12:16 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil < mcp2004 at mail.ru > wrote:
>
>> Hi Jim --
>> 
>> <<<
>> Mixing, matching and mashups is the new tech future.
>> Agreed.
>> 
>> But one cannot be a good, even satisfactory, "jack of many (software development/tech.) trades".
>> The tech. future IMO are standards, industrialization and specialization.
>> Industrialization doesn't mean (here) that there will be no place for "one jack"/SMB software development/tech. companies - industrialization means that custom software development to be competitive will have to be driven by well educated in computer science and application development (process) engineers and managers, engineers and managers who will be taught to use "the right tool for the right job" and when for a certain project/task they will find they aren't skilled enough to apply the most suitable tool(s) they will effectively delegate that project/job to a third-party and acquire/integrate the results of their work via standard/custom (web) APIs.
>> 
>> -- Shamil
>>? <<< skipped >>>
>

From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Thu Feb 14 00:27:04 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 10:27:04 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech]
 =?utf-8?q?FYI=3A_Microsoft=27s_128GB_Surface_Pro_Sells?=
 =?utf-8?q?_Out_At_MS_Online_Store_Just_Hours_After_Launch?=
In-Reply-To: <584DC99D082544FA932709D03D090F9A@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <1360495212.146344839@f377.i.mail.ru>
	<1360786578.459557095@f324.mail.ru>
	<584DC99D082544FA932709D03D090F9A@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <1360823224.469665873@f337.mail.ru>

 Hi Jim --

Thank you - we're getting into agreement on conceptual, 'Zen' points - good news :)

By "the right tool for the right job" I mean making a well balanced choice in a given (development) context. No doubts the same job can be done (right) many ways.
Awareness is a "must have" but not enough - Good Working Experience is what matters most. If a Good Working Experience is lacking for a set of selected "right tools" for the "right job" then the job should be delegated.

Thank you.

-- Shamil

?????, 13 ??????? 2013, 13:25 -08:00 ?? "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca>:
>Hi Shamil:
>
>What you have stated is very true. One tech can not be the best at all
>disciplines.
>
>But I do feel that one tech should have a good understanding of the
>available options and solutions. There is never one solution to a problem
>but many and any number would produce adequate results. That Awareness is
>what is most important.
>
>Like a carpenter, who can builds a house but must be aware of the
>requirements of the plumber, electrician, mason, roofer, etc... 
>
>Modern companies when they hire a new tech are not so much concerned with
>what the tech knows but their ability to learn new technologies and apply
>them. Every company knows that within ten years everything that tech
>initially arrived with will be gone or changed to the point of being
>unrecognizable.
>
>And this leads into another good point you brought up; "Standards". This is
>most important or the industry, or just the company that refuses to adapt,
>will be gone, in but a few years.
>
>One comment that I do not fully agree with is the concept that there is,
>"the right tool for the right job". In this industry there are many tools,
>for every job and each can produce, in the right hands, the required
>results. 
>
>As I have said before., "I know many more dead-languages than I know live
>ones."...and that list is getting longer every day. So forgive my lack of
>loyalty to any company or product; my only loyalty should be to the client.
>
>Jim 
<<< skipped >>>
>

From hans.andersen at phulse.com  Thu Feb 14 01:25:53 2013
From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 23:25:53 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] FYI: Microsoft's 128GB Surface Pro Sells Out At MS
	Online Store Just Hours After Launch
In-Reply-To: <1360822484.955769714@f308.mail.ru>
References: <1360495212.146344839@f377.i.mail.ru>
	<1360786569.975738509@f214.mail.ru>
	<7A057820-563D-4855-9D61-AA1A38AC5EA6@phulse.com>
	<1360822484.955769714@f308.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <1CC04002-8E34-496C-BB5A-2108739B280F@phulse.com>


Hi Shamil,

The irony is that in order to have good working experience, you need to have working experience. And if the job is being delegated to a "specialist" all the time, then no one else ever gets any actual experience to qualify as "good working experience".

To be honest, I know what it feels like to have invested so much time in a particular language/technology/etc that you feel completely lost when you touch anything new, but you just have to stick with it. It gets easier and you get to experience that feeling of your horizon broadening in your mind.

Also, to assume that a specialist is better, just because they can do something faster, I think this is wrong minded. Specialists, like all professionals who do the same thing for a long time, can also be dangerous. The can develop bad habits and practices because they are so involved in their little area and insulate themselves from other ideas. They become the person who has a hammer and sees everything as a nail. Specialists can enter a project and decide to throw away hard work already done just because it didn't fit with their style or preferred tools. Specialists can be very inflexible and a liability to your project as well.

Anyways, in my recent experience with the job market, it doesn't seem to fit your belief, but I'm judging it by my western european and north american experience.

- Hans




On 2013-02-13, at 10:14 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil <mcp2004 at mail.ru> wrote:

> Hi Jim --
> 
> Thank you - we're getting into agreement on conceptual, 'Zen' points - good news :)
> 
> By "the right tool for the right job" I mean making a well balanced choice in a given (development) context. No doubts the same job can be done (right) many ways.
> Awareness is a "must have" but not enough - Good Working Experience is what matters most. If a Good Working Experience is lacking for a set of selected "right tools" for the "right job" then the job should be delegated.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> -- Shamil


> Hi Hans --
> 
> There is no way to be good (I mean competitive) at many (programming) technologies, especially modern programming technologies. That conclusion comes from experience of many developers.
> 
> One thing is to have a good understanding - and a very different thing is to have a good *working experience* - it takes years to master the latter. What a specialist will make in hours will require days from a "jack of all trades". So "high rates" of specialists would be more than affordable - in fact they will be the one of the main "drives" of the economy. Period.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> -- Shamil
> 
> ?????, 13 ??????? 2013, 18:24 -08:00 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen <hans.andersen at phulse.com>:
>> I have to disagree. In fact, I think that is the world we came from and these days technology is evolving at such a pace that it is impossible to be a specialist in anything.
>> 
>> It is far more desirable to have someone who has a decent understanding of many things and be able to wear many hats. Someone who knows enough to be easily be brought up to speed on your project.
>> 
>> And this can also be reason based purely on economic factors. A specialist can demand far more in compensation and, in economic times like these, companies and startups are a bit more spend thrift.
>> 
>> - Hans
>> 
>> 
>> On 2013-02-13, at 12:16 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil < mcp2004 at mail.ru > wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Jim --
>>> 
>>> <<<
>>> Mixing, matching and mashups is the new tech future.
>>> Agreed.
>>> 
>>> But one cannot be a good, even satisfactory, "jack of many (software development/tech.) trades".
>>> The tech. future IMO are standards, industrialization and specialization.
>>> Industrialization doesn't mean (here) that there will be no place for "one jack"/SMB software development/tech. companies - industrialization means that custom software development to be competitive will have to be driven by well educated in computer science and application development (process) engineers and managers, engineers and managers who will be taught to use "the right tool for the right job" and when for a certain project/task they will find they aren't skilled enough to apply the most suitable tool(s) they will effectively delegate that project/job to a third-party and acquire/integrate the results of their work via standard/custom (web) APIs.
>>> 
>>> -- Shamil
>>>   <<< skipped >>>
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Thu Feb 14 01:49:12 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 11:49:12 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech] =?utf-8?q?FYI=3A_Moving_to_=22nirvana=22=3A_if_Microso?=
 =?utf-8?q?ft_were_to_shift_to_WebKit=2C_you_can_thank_Opera=2E?=
Message-ID: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru>


Hi All --

FYI: "Opera Sings The Final Song With Its Rendering Engine, Decides To Shift To?WebKit"
http://techcrunch.com/2013/02/13/opera-sings-the-final-song-with-its-rendering-engine-decides-to-shift-to-webkit/

-- Shamil

From hans.andersen at phulse.com  Thu Feb 14 01:56:36 2013
From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 23:56:36 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] FYI: Moving to "nirvana": if Microsoft were to shift
	to WebKit, you can thank Opera.
In-Reply-To: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <50DF8EC6-F0A4-4E7B-9E35-0B21241E8922@phulse.com>

Yep, the big news of today. I always had a feeling that my old Linux web browser, Konqueror, was destined for great things... and now it is happening :)

As I have expressed previously here, I have my fingers crossed that Microsoft will follow suit.

- Hans


On 2013-02-13, at 11:49 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil <mcp2004 at mail.ru> wrote:

> 
> Hi All --
> 
> FYI: "Opera Sings The Final Song With Its Rendering Engine, Decides To Shift To WebKit"
> http://techcrunch.com/2013/02/13/opera-sings-the-final-song-with-its-rendering-engine-decides-to-shift-to-webkit/
> 
> -- Shamil
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Thu Feb 14 02:09:27 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 12:09:27 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech]
 =?utf-8?q?FYI=3A_Microsoft=27s_128GB_Surface_Pro_Sells?=
 =?utf-8?q?_Out_At_MS_Online_Store_Just_Hours_After_Launch?=
In-Reply-To: <1CC04002-8E34-496C-BB5A-2108739B280F@phulse.com>
References: <1360495212.146344839@f377.i.mail.ru>
	<1360822484.955769714@f308.mail.ru>
	<1CC04002-8E34-496C-BB5A-2108739B280F@phulse.com>
Message-ID: <1360829367.537046651@f325.mail.ru>

 Hi Hans --

FYI: I'm working for the Western European and American and worldwide custom software development markets for almost twenty years now: Germany, Switzerland, Belgium, the Netherlands, UK, Ireland, US, Canada... I have learned, ?I have had and I have a working experience with many technologies during that period and before starting from assemblers, C/C++, Pascal, ... SQL, .. and ending by VBA, C# etc.. In parallel to my everyday custom applications development work I'm currently taking Pluralsight courses to get the new knowledge and skills in some modern technologies applicable on the mainstream desktop, web and mobile platforms...

So your note on your "judging by your?western european and north american experience" sounds strange here - do you assume that your experience differs that much from experience of a modern (application) software developer living anywhere in this "small world"? If yes - please open your mind and eyes - that difference can be neglected - I mean that, I know that.

When I'm talking about delegating the work to specialists I mean to not "give-up forever" the own knowledge?acquiring?and the working experience mastering/development in the new technologies but to do the *current* job/task the most effective and economically affordable way both in short- and in long-run. Please see the difference.

Thank you.

-- Shamil


?????, 13 ??????? 2013, 23:25 -08:00 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen <hans.andersen at phulse.com>:
>
>Hi Shamil,
>
>The irony is that in order to have good working experience, you need to have working experience. And if the job is being delegated to a "specialist" all the time, then no one else ever gets any actual experience to qualify as "good working experience".
>
>To be honest, I know what it feels like to have invested so much time in a particular language/technology/etc that you feel completely lost when you touch anything new, but you just have to stick with it. It gets easier and you get to experience that feeling of your horizon broadening in your mind.
>
>Also, to assume that a specialist is better, just because they can do something faster, I think this is wrong minded. Specialists, like all professionals who do the same thing for a long time, can also be dangerous. The can develop bad habits and practices because they are so involved in their little area and insulate themselves from other ideas. They become the person who has a hammer and sees everything as a nail. Specialists can enter a project and decide to throw away hard work already done just because it didn't fit with their style or preferred tools. Specialists can be very inflexible and a liability to your project as well.
>
>Anyways, in my recent experience with the job market, it doesn't seem to fit your belief, but I'm judging it by my western european and north american experience.
>
>- Hans
>
><<< skipped >>>

From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Thu Feb 14 02:18:27 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 12:18:27 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech]
 =?utf-8?q?FYI=3A_Moving_to_=22nirvana=22=3A_if_Microso?=
 =?utf-8?q?ft_were_to_shift_to_WebKit=2C_you_can_thank_Opera=2E?=
In-Reply-To: <50DF8EC6-F0A4-4E7B-9E35-0B21241E8922@phulse.com>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru>
	<50DF8EC6-F0A4-4E7B-9E35-0B21241E8922@phulse.com>
Message-ID: <1360829907.582615625@f325.mail.ru>

 <<<
As I have expressed previously here, I have my fingers crossed that Microsoft will follow suit.
>>>
I'd not mind :) ... but I doubt it will happen (real soon if ever):

- first of all because as we all know "Microsoft is not following standards but they create them" :) and 
- because of the fact that IE and its rendering and Javascript interpretation engine(s) should be tightly coupled with Web Browser Automation and so it could be very hard to "cut/refactor that Automation ties" without breaking a lot of custom software using Web Browser Automation features.

-- Shamil

?????, 13 ??????? 2013, 23:56 -08:00 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen <hans.andersen at phulse.com>:
>Yep, the big news of today. I always had a feeling that my old Linux web browser, Konqueror, was destined for great things... and now it is happening :)
>
>As I have expressed previously here, I have my fingers crossed that Microsoft will follow suit.
>
>- Hans
>
>
>On 2013-02-13, at 11:49 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil < mcp2004 at mail.ru > wrote:
>
>> 
>> Hi All --
>> 
>> FYI: "Opera Sings The Final Song With Its Rendering Engine, Decides To Shift To WebKit"
>>  http://techcrunch.com/2013/02/13/opera-sings-the-final-song-with-its-rendering-engine-decides-to-shift-to-webkit/
>> 
>> -- Shamil <<< skipped >>>
>


From accessd at shaw.ca  Thu Feb 14 02:25:35 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 00:25:35 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Supercharge your excel spreadsheet
In-Reply-To: <1360821874.706955815@f308.mail.ru>
References: <CAEPJO1iNTRT2CTELcz8s8Je2qMuvHsbM93tEF4VSm=x6HRfHeg@mail.gmail.com><511BFB9C.2184.1DFE8E38@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><0909931E6A884CEABE04C20F245B32D3@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<1360821874.706955815@f308.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <BA11DA38EE58497B9CBC8753237D151C@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Shamil:

You realize that much of what goes into Excel is crap code, pushed in by
some office clerk that has never programmed anything before, so adding yet
another layer is hardly going to ruin the spreadsheet. It is hard to spoil a
bad egg they say. ;-)

If there is a better method for extending Excel's capability and you know
how then maybe you should explore it. Consider your competition. This
company, Datanitro with little more than a hack or two is on course to make
a fortune with their product. Like I said before; Mixing, matching and
mashups is the new tech future.

Do I like that type of coding? No, but there is so much of it done these
days and no one seems to care as long as it looks good. Few wants to pay for
someone or pay for the time to do it right. 

Aside: A question I have always wondered about. Why can the latest Ubuntu OS
load and run on a CD, about 200K in size and an OS like Window8 takes 10GB
of hard drive space. Can I assume that because it is 50 times the size
Windows has significantly more features? You don't have to answer that as I
am sure no one really could...it is just one of those mysteries we will just
have to accept.

Jim 

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov
Shamil
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 10:05 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Supercharge your excel spreadsheet

 Hi Jim --

<<<
I smell another business opportunity. :-)
>>>
As Stuart I'm rather skeptical?about this "supercharge approach". I mean:
AFAIU they use DLL(s) or COM Add-in to communicate with Python interpreter -
that promise to be rather slow at runtime.

To "supercharge (excel/libra-calc) worksheets" I'd use something like
OpenXML SDK with Python web services providing absent in MS Excel/libra-calc
financial (modeling) packages functionality...

IMO the approach they propose is yet another potential source of very
crappy, slow, having high support costs custom apps we've got so much with
VB6 and VBA in 90-ies and 00-ies...

I can be wrong.

Thank you.

-- Shamil



From accessd at shaw.ca  Thu Feb 14 02:50:52 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 00:50:52 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] FYI: Moving to "nirvana": if Microsoft were to shift
	to WebKit, you can thank Opera.
In-Reply-To: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <4530D6549FA14B1AAAF7015BD107E5FA@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Shamil:

I must say I am a little sad to see Opera finally forced into accepting the
changing of the tide. They put up the good fight though.

I believe, in the new browsers of today exists some of the finest coding
ever created. Considering that someone just lifted the V8 engine out of
Chrome (Chromium) product, encapsulated it and made the worlds fastest web
server (Node.js), speaks to just how optimized the code is. All of today's
browsers are similarly perfected. 

IMHO, the browser will be the final OS...but I still like my desktop better.

Jim 

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov
Shamil
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 11:49 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: [dba-Tech] FYI: Moving to "nirvana": if Microsoft were to shift to
WebKit, you can thank Opera.


Hi All --

FYI: "Opera Sings The Final Song With Its Rendering Engine, Decides To Shift
To?WebKit"
http://techcrunch.com/2013/02/13/opera-sings-the-final-song-with-its-renderi
ng-engine-decides-to-shift-to-webkit/

-- Shamil
_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From hans.andersen at phulse.com  Thu Feb 14 03:04:57 2013
From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 01:04:57 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] FYI: Moving to "nirvana": if Microsoft were to shift
	to WebKit, you can thank Opera.
In-Reply-To: <1360829907.582615625@f325.mail.ru>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru>
	<50DF8EC6-F0A4-4E7B-9E35-0B21241E8922@phulse.com>
	<1360829907.582615625@f325.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <A0A255A1-2EB5-48B6-8805-2DD46F0EA1AC@phulse.com>


> - because of the fact that IE and its rendering and Javascript interpretation engine(s) should be tightly coupled with Web Browser Automation and so it could be very hard to "cut/refactor that Automation ties" without breaking a lot of custom software using Web Browser Automation features.

Is this actually a critical issue for most people? Is it an issue that cannot be solved by either forking IE into two versions - IE and IE Classic? Or perhaps having a compatibility layer, like what already exists in IE, so that some things can use Trident if needed, while the main engine remains WebKit?

- Hans


On 2013-02-14, at 12:18 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil <mcp2004 at mail.ru> wrote:

> <<<
> As I have expressed previously here, I have my fingers crossed that Microsoft will follow suit.
>>>> 
> I'd not mind :) ... but I doubt it will happen (real soon if ever):
> 
> - first of all because as we all know "Microsoft is not following standards but they create them" :) and 
> - because of the fact that IE and its rendering and Javascript interpretation engine(s) should be tightly coupled with Web Browser Automation and so it could be very hard to "cut/refactor that Automation ties" without breaking a lot of custom software using Web Browser Automation features.
> 
> -- Shamil
> 
> ?????, 13 ??????? 2013, 23:56 -08:00 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen <hans.andersen at phulse.com>:
>> Yep, the big news of today. I always had a feeling that my old Linux web browser, Konqueror, was destined for great things... and now it is happening :)
>> 
>> As I have expressed previously here, I have my fingers crossed that Microsoft will follow suit.
>> 
>> - Hans
>> 
>> 
>> On 2013-02-13, at 11:49 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil < mcp2004 at mail.ru > wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> Hi All --
>>> 
>>> FYI: "Opera Sings The Final Song With Its Rendering Engine, Decides To Shift To WebKit"
>>> http://techcrunch.com/2013/02/13/opera-sings-the-final-song-with-its-rendering-engine-decides-to-shift-to-webkit/
>>> 
>>> -- Shamil <<< skipped >>>
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk  Thu Feb 14 03:08:17 2013
From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 09:08:17 +0000
Subject: [dba-Tech] FYI: Moving to "nirvana": if Microsoft were to
	shift	to WebKit, you can thank Opera.
In-Reply-To: <4530D6549FA14B1AAAF7015BD107E5FA@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru>
	<4530D6549FA14B1AAAF7015BD107E5FA@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <EAE7D217-4545-4F1C-9964-C514076C5F7B@qub.ac.uk>

Does WebKit support opening office documents on the client?

Martin

Sent from my iPad

On 14 Feb 2013, at 08:51, "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:

> Hi Shamil:
> 
> I must say I am a little sad to see Opera finally forced into accepting the
> changing of the tide. They put up the good fight though.
> 
> I believe, in the new browsers of today exists some of the finest coding
> ever created. Considering that someone just lifted the V8 engine out of
> Chrome (Chromium) product, encapsulated it and made the worlds fastest web
> server (Node.js), speaks to just how optimized the code is. All of today's
> browsers are similarly perfected. 
> 
> IMHO, the browser will be the final OS...but I still like my desktop better.
> 
> Jim 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov
> Shamil
> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 11:49 PM
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Subject: [dba-Tech] FYI: Moving to "nirvana": if Microsoft were to shift to
> WebKit, you can thank Opera.
> 
> 
> Hi All --
> 
> FYI: "Opera Sings The Final Song With Its Rendering Engine, Decides To Shift
> To WebKit"
> http://techcrunch.com/2013/02/13/opera-sings-the-final-song-with-its-renderi
> ng-engine-decides-to-shift-to-webkit/
> 
> -- Shamil
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Thu Feb 14 03:09:54 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 13:09:54 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech] =?utf-8?q?Supercharge_your_excel_spreadsheet?=
In-Reply-To: <BA11DA38EE58497B9CBC8753237D151C@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <CAEPJO1iNTRT2CTELcz8s8Je2qMuvHsbM93tEF4VSm=x6HRfHeg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1360821874.706955815@f308.mail.ru>
	<BA11DA38EE58497B9CBC8753237D151C@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <1360832994.839833693@f171.mail.ru>

 Hi Jim --

Yes, "mixing, matching and?mashups is the new tech future" but I suppose not using the tools as the subject one, which usually quickly become a "straitjacket", but using generally accepted standards and modern powerful development tools: the subject tool could be good for prototyping for experienced Python developers, when prototyping completed then the real effective solution should be developed from scratch one or another way.

If the niche DataNitro tool is aimed at is really promising to make a fortune then they should change the way they communicate MS Excel worksheets (data) with Python financial packages. I can be wrong, but I have read the texts from their web site - they sound unconvincing...

<<<
Do I like that type of coding? No, but there is so 
much of it done these?days and no one seems 
to care as long as it looks good. Few wants to pay for
someone or pay for the time to do it right.
>>>
Jim, that's 90-es/beginning of 00-ies "songs".
There exist better ways using modern development technologies and (agile) software development methodologies.
Proven ways. They do work.?

<<<
Why can the latest Ubuntu OS
load and run on a CD, about 200K in size and an OS like Window8 takes 10GB
>>>
MS Windows (8) is a well known "bloat-ware". But it definitely has a lot more features than Ubuntu has. You probably mean a very limited version of Ubuntu with 200KB in size - I have a Ubuntu 12.04 LTS VM installed here on expandable virtual harddrive (VHD) - the VHD size is currently?6,111,100,928 bytes. (I have had Mono developer tools and Google Chrome installed additionally - it may happen they resulted in Ubuntu 12.04 LTS VHD bloating.)

-- Shamil

???????, 14 ??????? 2013, 0:25 -08:00 ?? "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca>:
>Hi Shamil:
>
>You realize that much of what goes into Excel is crap code, pushed in by
>some office clerk that has never programmed anything before, so adding yet
>another layer is hardly going to ruin the spreadsheet. It is hard to spoil a
>bad egg they say. ;-)
>
>If there is a better method for extending Excel's capability and you know
>how then maybe you should explore it. Consider your competition. This
>company, Datanitro with little more than a hack or two is on course to make
>a fortune with their product. Like I said before; Mixing, matching and
>mashups is the new tech future.
>
>Do I like that type of coding? No, but there is so much of it done these
>days and no one seems to care as long as it looks good. Few wants to pay for
>someone or pay for the time to do it right. 
>
>Aside: A question I have always wondered about. Why can the latest Ubuntu OS
>load and run on a CD, about 200K in size and an OS like Window8 takes 10GB
>of hard drive space. Can I assume that because it is 50 times the size
>Windows has significantly more features? You don't have to answer that as I
>am sure no one really could...it is just one of those mysteries we will just
>have to accept.
>
>Jim 
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From:  dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov
>Shamil
>Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 10:05 PM
>To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Supercharge your excel spreadsheet
>
>?Hi Jim --
>
><<<
>I smell another business opportunity. :-)
>>>>
>As Stuart I'm rather skeptical?about this "supercharge approach". I mean:
>AFAIU they use DLL(s) or COM Add-in to communicate with Python interpreter -
>that promise to be rather slow at runtime.
>
>To "supercharge (excel/libra-calc) worksheets" I'd use something like
>OpenXML SDK with Python web services providing absent in MS Excel/libra-calc
>financial (modeling) packages functionality...
>
>IMO the approach they propose is yet another potential source of very
>crappy, slow, having high support costs custom apps we've got so much with
>VB6 and VBA in 90-ies and 00-ies...
>
>I can be wrong.
>
>Thank you.
>
>-- Shamil
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>dba-Tech mailing list
>dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>Website:  http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Thu Feb 14 03:21:37 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 13:21:37 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech]
 =?utf-8?q?FYI=3A_Moving_to_=22nirvana=22=3A_if_Microso?=
 =?utf-8?q?ft_were_to_shift_to_WebKit=2C_you_can_thank_Opera=2E?=
In-Reply-To: <4530D6549FA14B1AAAF7015BD107E5FA@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru>
	<4530D6549FA14B1AAAF7015BD107E5FA@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <1360833697.580800355@f171.mail.ru>

 Hi Jim --

Yes, it's always sad when so good technologies as Opera HTML rendering/JavaScript interpretation engines have to "die": if only there could be a way for all the mainstream browsers to follow the same HTML/CSS/JavaScript standards and still compete effectively and "innovate independently"...

Sorry, I have to disagree :) - *browsers will not be the final OS* - not that I like that much my (Windows) desktop but the current mobile development shows the trend IMHO: the browsers will be just an option, it could happen they (browsers based applications) will "cover" the (very) large part of the applications market but native mobile/desktop applications will always exists/be ahead just because common standards will not be able to go ahead of "never ending (native/mobile) applications innovation race"...

-- Shamil

???????, 14 ??????? 2013, 0:50 -08:00 ?? "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca>:
>Hi Shamil:
>
>I must say I am a little sad to see Opera finally forced into accepting the
>changing of the tide. They put up the good fight though.
>
>I believe, in the new browsers of today exists some of the finest coding
>ever created. Considering that someone just lifted the V8 engine out of
>Chrome (Chromium) product, encapsulated it and made the worlds fastest web
>server (Node.js), speaks to just how optimized the code is. All of today's
>browsers are similarly perfected. 
>
>IMHO, the browser will be the final OS...but I still like my desktop better.
>
>Jim 
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From:  dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov
>Shamil
>Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 11:49 PM
>To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>Subject: [dba-Tech] FYI: Moving to "nirvana": if Microsoft were to shift to
>WebKit, you can thank Opera.
>
>
>Hi All --
>
>FYI: "Opera Sings The Final Song With Its Rendering Engine, Decides To Shift
>To?WebKit"
>http://techcrunch.com/2013/02/13/opera-sings-the-final-song-with-its-renderi
>ng-engine-decides-to-shift-to-webkit/
>
>-- Shamil

From hans.andersen at phulse.com  Thu Feb 14 03:22:55 2013
From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 01:22:55 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] FYI: Microsoft's 128GB Surface Pro Sells Out At MS
	Online Store Just Hours After Launch
In-Reply-To: <1360829367.537046651@f325.mail.ru>
References: <1360495212.146344839@f377.i.mail.ru>
	<1360822484.955769714@f308.mail.ru>
	<1CC04002-8E34-496C-BB5A-2108739B280F@phulse.com>
	<1360829367.537046651@f325.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <B71F53C8-6E92-4BBE-9180-260BDC847A79@phulse.com>

Hi Shamil,

Yes, my experience is precisely as what I stated and I have also been on the other side of the fence as being the hiring manager. I will concede that all my experience in the last decade has revolved around web technologies and the web and not traditional desktop software development, but I still think what I say holds to true in most contexts. Of course, if you have a nuclear reactor about the explode and you need a specialist to come in and fix it, that is logical. But, for most other things, I think it holds true. What's more important than having a specialist is having a smart person with a good foundation.

Another concession would be that I have been assuming we are talking about working within a team of developers, UX, etc people. If you are hired as a solo developer to work alone on a project, well... then things can be different.

- Hans




On 2013-02-14, at 12:09 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil <mcp2004 at mail.ru> wrote:

> Hi Hans --
> 
> FYI: I'm working for the Western European and American and worldwide custom software development markets for almost twenty years now: Germany, Switzerland, Belgium, the Netherlands, UK, Ireland, US, Canada... I have learned,  I have had and I have a working experience with many technologies during that period and before starting from assemblers, C/C++, Pascal, ... SQL, .. and ending by VBA, C# etc.. In parallel to my everyday custom applications development work I'm currently taking Pluralsight courses to get the new knowledge and skills in some modern technologies applicable on the mainstream desktop, web and mobile platforms...
> 
> So your note on your "judging by your western european and north american experience" sounds strange here - do you assume that your experience differs that much from experience of a modern (application) software developer living anywhere in this "small world"? If yes - please open your mind and eyes - that difference can be neglected - I mean that, I know that.
> 
> When I'm talking about delegating the work to specialists I mean to not "give-up forever" the own knowledge acquiring and the working experience mastering/development in the new technologies but to do the *current* job/task the most effective and economically affordable way both in short- and in long-run. Please see the difference.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> -- Shamil
> 
> 
> ?????, 13 ??????? 2013, 23:25 -08:00 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen <hans.andersen at phulse.com>:
>> 
>> Hi Shamil,
>> 
>> The irony is that in order to have good working experience, you need to have working experience. And if the job is being delegated to a "specialist" all the time, then no one else ever gets any actual experience to qualify as "good working experience".
>> 
>> To be honest, I know what it feels like to have invested so much time in a particular language/technology/etc that you feel completely lost when you touch anything new, but you just have to stick with it. It gets easier and you get to experience that feeling of your horizon broadening in your mind.
>> 
>> Also, to assume that a specialist is better, just because they can do something faster, I think this is wrong minded. Specialists, like all professionals who do the same thing for a long time, can also be dangerous. The can develop bad habits and practices because they are so involved in their little area and insulate themselves from other ideas. They become the person who has a hammer and sees everything as a nail. Specialists can enter a project and decide to throw away hard work already done just because it didn't fit with their style or preferred tools. Specialists can be very inflexible and a liability to your project as well.
>> 
>> Anyways, in my recent experience with the job market, it doesn't seem to fit your belief, but I'm judging it by my western european and north american experience.
>> 
>> - Hans
>> 
>> <<< skipped >>>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Thu Feb 14 03:32:40 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 13:32:40 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech]
 =?utf-8?q?FYI=3A_Moving_to_=22nirvana=22=3A_if_Microso?=
 =?utf-8?q?ft_were_to_shift_to_WebKit=2C_you_can_thank_Opera=2E?=
In-Reply-To: <A0A255A1-2EB5-48B6-8805-2DD46F0EA1AC@phulse.com>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru>
	<1360829907.582615625@f325.mail.ru>
	<A0A255A1-2EB5-48B6-8805-2DD46F0EA1AC@phulse.com>
Message-ID: <1360834360.258085691@f344.mail.ru>

 <<<
Is this actually a critical issue for most people? Is it an issue that cannot be solved by either forking
IE into two versions - IE and IE Classic? Or perhaps having a compatibility layer, like what already 
exists in IE, so that some things can use Trident if needed, while the main engine remains WebKit?
>>>
AFAIK Web Browser Automation is widely used.
AFAIU (I can be wrong) Web Browser Automation "ties" could have been the source of IE's previous (before IE10) versions "slowness", "memory?hungriness/leakages" etc.
Still Microsoft could "kill" it as they did with VB6 and other technologies but as we can see with IE10 Microsoft have done a lot of work to fix the prev. IE versions issues. I doubt they would want to "throw away" all that work. And compatibility layer could result in Microsoft IE10 and new versions rendering/JavaScript interpretation code optimization results getting (partially) lost. I can be completely wrong. I do not know how IE code base is organized internally.

-- Shamil


???????, 14 ??????? 2013, 1:04 -08:00 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen <hans.andersen at phulse.com>:
>
>> - because of the fact that IE and its rendering and Javascript interpretation engine(s) should be tightly coupled with Web Browser Automation and so it could be very hard to "cut/refactor that Automation ties" without breaking a lot of custom software using Web Browser Automation features.
>
>Is this actually a critical issue for most people? Is it an issue that cannot be solved by either forking IE into two versions - IE and IE Classic? Or perhaps having a compatibility layer, like what already exists in IE, so that some things can use Trident if needed, while the main engine remains WebKit?
>
>- Hans
>
>
>On 2013-02-14, at 12:18 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil < mcp2004 at mail.ru > wrote:
>
>> <<<
>> As I have expressed previously here, I have my fingers crossed that Microsoft will follow suit.
>>>>> 
>> I'd not mind :) ... but I doubt it will happen (real soon if ever):
>> 
>> - first of all because as we all know "Microsoft is not following standards but they create them" :) and 
>> - because of the fact that IE and its rendering and Javascript interpretation engine(s) should be tightly coupled with Web Browser Automation and so it could be very hard to "cut/refactor that Automation ties" without breaking a lot of custom software using Web Browser Automation features.
>> 
>> -- Shamil
<<< skipped >>>
>

From hans.andersen at phulse.com  Thu Feb 14 03:36:42 2013
From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 01:36:42 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] FYI: Moving to "nirvana": if Microsoft were to shift
	to WebKit, you can thank Opera.
In-Reply-To: <1360834360.258085691@f344.mail.ru>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru>
	<1360829907.582615625@f325.mail.ru>
	<A0A255A1-2EB5-48B6-8805-2DD46F0EA1AC@phulse.com>
	<1360834360.258085691@f344.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <EB9CFF5F-2D68-4BB2-B822-FF8E59899EA6@phulse.com>


> AFAIK Web Browser Automation is widely used.

This is interesting. Could you possibly provide a few examples of where it is used in a manner that is important in some way?

- Hans


On 2013-02-14, at 1:32 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil <mcp2004 at mail.ru> wrote:

> <<<
> Is this actually a critical issue for most people? Is it an issue that cannot be solved by either forking
> IE into two versions - IE and IE Classic? Or perhaps having a compatibility layer, like what already 
> exists in IE, so that some things can use Trident if needed, while the main engine remains WebKit?
>>>> 
> AFAIK Web Browser Automation is widely used.
> AFAIU (I can be wrong) Web Browser Automation "ties" could have been the source of IE's previous (before IE10) versions "slowness", "memory hungriness/leakages" etc.
> Still Microsoft could "kill" it as they did with VB6 and other technologies but as we can see with IE10 Microsoft have done a lot of work to fix the prev. IE versions issues. I doubt they would want to "throw away" all that work. And compatibility layer could result in Microsoft IE10 and new versions rendering/JavaScript interpretation code optimization results getting (partially) lost. I can be completely wrong. I do not know how IE code base is organized internally.
> 
> -- Shamil
> 
> 
> ???????, 14 ??????? 2013, 1:04 -08:00 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen <hans.andersen at phulse.com>:
>> 
>>> - because of the fact that IE and its rendering and Javascript interpretation engine(s) should be tightly coupled with Web Browser Automation and so it could be very hard to "cut/refactor that Automation ties" without breaking a lot of custom software using Web Browser Automation features.
>> 
>> Is this actually a critical issue for most people? Is it an issue that cannot be solved by either forking IE into two versions - IE and IE Classic? Or perhaps having a compatibility layer, like what already exists in IE, so that some things can use Trident if needed, while the main engine remains WebKit?
>> 
>> - Hans
>> 
>> 
>> On 2013-02-14, at 12:18 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil < mcp2004 at mail.ru > wrote:
>> 
>>> <<<
>>> As I have expressed previously here, I have my fingers crossed that Microsoft will follow suit.
>>>>>> 
>>> I'd not mind :) ... but I doubt it will happen (real soon if ever):
>>> 
>>> - first of all because as we all know "Microsoft is not following standards but they create them" :) and 
>>> - because of the fact that IE and its rendering and Javascript interpretation engine(s) should be tightly coupled with Web Browser Automation and so it could be very hard to "cut/refactor that Automation ties" without breaking a lot of custom software using Web Browser Automation features.
>>> 
>>> -- Shamil
> <<< skipped >>>
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Thu Feb 14 04:06:05 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 14:06:05 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech]
 =?utf-8?q?FYI=3A_Microsoft=27s_128GB_Surface_Pro_Sells?=
 =?utf-8?q?_Out_At_MS_Online_Store_Just_Hours_After_Launch?=
In-Reply-To: <B71F53C8-6E92-4BBE-9180-260BDC847A79@phulse.com>
References: <1360495212.146344839@f377.i.mail.ru>
	<1360829367.537046651@f325.mail.ru>
	<B71F53C8-6E92-4BBE-9180-260BDC847A79@phulse.com>
Message-ID: <1360836365.567339246@f238.mail.ru>

 Hi Hans --

Yes, we?are talking about working within a team of developers, UX, etc people...

I have been a "hiring manager", a project manager for not that long period of time - but that was quite enough to have a look at developers (including myself) from "other side of the fence". And I have got back to freelancing/teaming-up with other developers/freelancers when necessary...

Using Web technologies constitute probably 20% of my current projects, which are mainly desktop ones, but there were times when I worked full-time (in freelancing) solely on web projects. I have zero web graphics design skills and (I think) rather developed "sense of beauty", which I have inherited from my father who was a very good?jewelry?master (Faberge School) - so web projects constitute smaller part of my projects as I rarely get satisfied with graphics designs and I cannot compete with others in this area but anyway I'm planning to make web projects' part of my development practice larger - so I'm mastering modern Web development technologies by using Pluralsight and other sources while moving parts of my main customers desktop projects to the web sub-contracting third-party web graphics designers or sub-tasks/sub-projects developers when needed.

In my experience modern web development is in general easier than the modern desktop development.
I have currently no working mobile development experience but as far as see from the sources I'm working through mobile development in general is as complicated as desktop development is if not more complicated.

Thank you.

-- Shamil


???????, 14 ??????? 2013, 1:22 -08:00 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen <hans.andersen at phulse.com>:
>Hi Shamil,
>
>Yes, my experience is precisely as what I stated and I have also been on the other side of the fence as being the hiring manager. I will concede that all my experience in the last decade has revolved around web technologies and the web and not traditional desktop software development, but I still think what I say holds to true in most contexts. Of course, if you have a nuclear reactor about the explode and you need a specialist to come in and fix it, that is logical. But, for most other things, I think it holds true. What's more important than having a specialist is having a smart person with a good foundation.
>
>Another concession would be that I have been assuming we are talking about working within a team of developers, UX, etc people. If you are hired as a solo developer to work alone on a project, well... then things can be different.
>
>- Hans
>
>
>
>
>On 2013-02-14, at 12:09 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil < mcp2004 at mail.ru > wrote:
>
>> Hi Hans --
>> 
>> FYI: I'm working for the Western European and American and worldwide custom software development markets for almost twenty years now: Germany, Switzerland, Belgium, the Netherlands, UK, Ireland, US, Canada... I have learned,  I have had and I have a working experience with many technologies during that period and before starting from assemblers, C/C++, Pascal, ... SQL, .. and ending by VBA, C# etc.. In parallel to my everyday custom applications development work I'm currently taking Pluralsight courses to get the new knowledge and skills in some modern technologies applicable on the mainstream desktop, web and mobile platforms...
>> 
>> So your note on your "judging by your western european and north american experience" sounds strange here - do you assume that your experience differs that much from experience of a modern (application) software developer living anywhere in this "small world"? If yes - please open your mind and eyes - that difference can be neglected - I mean that, I know that.
>> 
>> When I'm talking about delegating the work to specialists I mean to not "give-up forever" the own knowledge acquiring and the working experience mastering/development in the new technologies but to do the *current* job/task the most effective and economically affordable way both in short- and in long-run. Please see the difference.
>> 
>> Thank you.
>> 
>> -- Shamil
>>?
<<< skipped >>>
>

From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Thu Feb 14 05:26:17 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 15:26:17 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech]
 =?utf-8?q?FYI=3A_Moving_to_=22nirvana=22=3A_if_Microso?=
 =?utf-8?q?ft_were_to_shift_to_WebKit=2C_you_can_thank_Opera=2E?=
In-Reply-To: <EB9CFF5F-2D68-4BB2-B822-FF8E59899EA6@phulse.com>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru>
	<1360834360.258085691@f344.mail.ru>
	<EB9CFF5F-2D68-4BB2-B822-FF8E59899EA6@phulse.com>
Message-ID: <1360841177.262664090@f270.mail.ru>

 Hi Hans --

<<<
This is interesting. Could you possibly provide a few examples of where it is used in a manner that is important in some way?
>>>
To Automate web applications testing:? http://watin.org/documentation/ ?( http://www.screencast-o-matic.com/watch/cXeloE2gh )

To Automate?repetitive?tasks when web browsing is a part of a larger desktop application, e.g.

" Efficient data entry through browser automation"

http://www.codeproject.com/Articles/338036/BrowserAutomationCrawler

" Microsoft Web Browser Automation using C#"

http://www.codeproject.com/Articles/5452/Microsoft-Web-Browser-Automation-using-C

The above is just a generic example - for that case Google API can be used of course but there could be many other cases when there is no any web API and (as I noted above) web browsing functionality is a part of a larger desktop application.

In the past (no web services/no web APIs) Microsoft Web Browser Automation was used in (VB6/VBA) apps for web crawling/scraping....

To see more examples browse:? http://www.codeproject.com/search.aspx?q=web+browser+automation&x=0&y=0&sbo=kw&pgnum=5

or google by?"microsoft web browser automation".

-- Shamil

P.S. I guess Microsoft Web Browser Automation is also used in Selenium ( http://docs.seleniumhq.org/docs/index.jsp ) for IE testing automation...

???????, 14 ??????? 2013, 1:36 -08:00 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen <hans.andersen at phulse.com>:
>
>> AFAIK Web Browser Automation is widely used.
>
>This is interesting. Could you possibly provide a few examples of where it is used in a manner that is important in some way?
>
>- Hans
>
>
>On 2013-02-14, at 1:32 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil < mcp2004 at mail.ru > wrote:
>
>> <<<
>> Is this actually a critical issue for most people? Is it an issue that cannot be solved by either forking
>> IE into two versions - IE and IE Classic? Or perhaps having a compatibility layer, like what already 
>> exists in IE, so that some things can use Trident if needed, while the main engine remains WebKit?
>>>>> 
>> AFAIK Web Browser Automation is widely used.
>> AFAIU (I can be wrong) Web Browser Automation "ties" could have been the source of IE's previous (before IE10) versions "slowness", "memory hungriness/leakages" etc.
>> Still Microsoft could "kill" it as they did with VB6 and other technologies but as we can see with IE10 Microsoft have done a lot of work to fix the prev. IE versions issues. I doubt they would want to "throw away" all that work. And compatibility layer could result in Microsoft IE10 and new versions rendering/JavaScript interpretation code optimization results getting (partially) lost. I can be completely wrong. I do not know how IE code base is organized internally.
>> 
>> -- Shamil
>> 
>> 
>> ???????, 14 ??????? 2013, 1:04 -08:00 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen < hans.andersen at phulse.com >:
>>> 
>>>> - because of the fact that IE and its rendering and Javascript interpretation engine(s) should be tightly coupled with Web Browser Automation and so it could be very hard to "cut/refactor that Automation ties" without breaking a lot of custom software using Web Browser Automation features.
>>> 
>>> Is this actually a critical issue for most people? Is it an issue that cannot be solved by either forking IE into two versions - IE and IE Classic? Or perhaps having a compatibility layer, like what already exists in IE, so that some things can use Trident if needed, while the main engine remains WebKit?
>>> 
>>> - Hans
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 2013-02-14, at 12:18 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil <  mcp2004 at mail.ru > wrote:
>>> 
>>>> <<<
>>>> As I have expressed previously here, I have my fingers crossed that Microsoft will follow suit.
>>>>>>> 
>>>> I'd not mind :) ... but I doubt it will happen (real soon if ever):
>>>> 
>>>> - first of all because as we all know "Microsoft is not following standards but they create them" :) and 
>>>> - because of the fact that IE and its rendering and Javascript interpretation engine(s) should be tightly coupled with Web Browser Automation and so it could be very hard to "cut/refactor that Automation ties" without breaking a lot of custom software using Web Browser Automation features.
>>>> 
>>>> -- Shamil
>> <<< skipped >>>
>>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> dba-Tech mailing list
>>  dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>>  http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>> Website:  http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>dba-Tech mailing list
>dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>Website:  http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From accessd at shaw.ca  Thu Feb 14 12:24:41 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 10:24:41 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] FYI: Moving to "nirvana": if Microsoft were to shift
	to WebKit, you can thank Opera.
In-Reply-To: <1360841177.262664090@f270.mail.ru>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru><1360834360.258085691@f344.mail.ru><EB9CFF5F-2D68-4BB2-B822-FF8E59899EA6@phulse.com>
	<1360841177.262664090@f270.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <DE51492492D04AF0AA2C444AEACD7BD5@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Shamil:

Just a question and a comment on this "browser automation".

Isn't this built around the concept of adding Plugins into you browser so
features can be extended to the desktop? Is this not very proprietary code
and not extendable to any other browser...in other words a developer would
have to make a plugin for every browser and desktop OS supported?

My personal belief is that plugins should be avoided where at all possible.
Plugins have been used by so many malware products so I tend to be very
untrusting of that whole concept of that type of development. Plugins can
even be used to bridge between the browser's protected sandbox concept and
the desktop...very dangerous. 

A couple of years ago a company automated the concept of attaching their
plugin to any browser that viewed their web site. It resulted in your
desktop being replaced and then it would prompt you to contact their site
for a solution to remove the malware at the price of $29. Browser security
has since been improved.   

IMHO, if particular functionality is required it should either be coded
directly into the FE or BE of your web page, where at all possible or no
plugin should be allowed unless they have been vetted through one of the
many app stores. In addition, does not this coding method defeats the whole
concept of "write once, play everywhere"?
 
Jim  

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov
Shamil
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 3:26 AM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] FYI: Moving to "nirvana": if Microsoft were to shift
to WebKit, you can thank Opera.

 Hi Hans --

<<<
This is interesting. Could you possibly provide a few examples of where it
is used in a manner that is important in some way?
>>>
To Automate web applications testing:? http://watin.org/documentation/ ?(
http://www.screencast-o-matic.com/watch/cXeloE2gh )

To Automate?repetitive?tasks when web browsing is a part of a larger desktop
application, e.g.

" Efficient data entry through browser automation"

http://www.codeproject.com/Articles/338036/BrowserAutomationCrawler

" Microsoft Web Browser Automation using C#"

http://www.codeproject.com/Articles/5452/Microsoft-Web-Browser-Automation-us
ing-C

The above is just a generic example - for that case Google API can be used
of course but there could be many other cases when there is no any web API
and (as I noted above) web browsing functionality is a part of a larger
desktop application.

In the past (no web services/no web APIs) Microsoft Web Browser Automation
was used in (VB6/VBA) apps for web crawling/scraping....

To see more examples browse:?
http://www.codeproject.com/search.aspx?q=web+browser+automation&x=0&y=0&sbo=
kw&pgnum=5

or google by?"microsoft web browser automation".

-- Shamil

P.S. I guess Microsoft Web Browser Automation is also used in Selenium (
http://docs.seleniumhq.org/docs/index.jsp ) for IE testing automation...

???????, 14 ??????? 2013, 1:36 -08:00 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen
<hans.andersen at phulse.com>:
>
>> AFAIK Web Browser Automation is widely used.
>
>This is interesting. Could you possibly provide a few examples of where it
is used in a manner that is important in some way?
>
>- Hans
>
>
>On 2013-02-14, at 1:32 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil < mcp2004 at mail.ru > wrote:
>
>> <<<
>> Is this actually a critical issue for most people? Is it an issue that
cannot be solved by either forking
>> IE into two versions - IE and IE Classic? Or perhaps having a
compatibility layer, like what already 
>> exists in IE, so that some things can use Trident if needed, while the
main engine remains WebKit?
>>>>> 
>> AFAIK Web Browser Automation is widely used.
>> AFAIU (I can be wrong) Web Browser Automation "ties" could have been the
source of IE's previous (before IE10) versions "slowness", "memory
hungriness/leakages" etc.
>> Still Microsoft could "kill" it as they did with VB6 and other
technologies but as we can see with IE10 Microsoft have done a lot of work
to fix the prev. IE versions issues. I doubt they would want to "throw away"
all that work. And compatibility layer could result in Microsoft IE10 and
new versions rendering/JavaScript interpretation code optimization results
getting (partially) lost. I can be completely wrong. I do not know how IE
code base is organized internally.
>> 
>> -- Shamil
>> 
>> 
>> ???????, 14 ??????? 2013, 1:04 -08:00 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen <
hans.andersen at phulse.com >:
>>> 
>>>> - because of the fact that IE and its rendering and Javascript
interpretation engine(s) should be tightly coupled with Web Browser
Automation and so it could be very hard to "cut/refactor that Automation
ties" without breaking a lot of custom software using Web Browser Automation
features.
>>> 
>>> Is this actually a critical issue for most people? Is it an issue that
cannot be solved by either forking IE into two versions - IE and IE Classic?
Or perhaps having a compatibility layer, like what already exists in IE, so
that some things can use Trident if needed, while the main engine remains
WebKit?
>>> 
>>> - Hans
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 2013-02-14, at 12:18 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil <  mcp2004 at mail.ru >
wrote:
>>> 
>>>> <<<
>>>> As I have expressed previously here, I have my fingers crossed that
Microsoft will follow suit.
>>>>>>> 
>>>> I'd not mind :) ... but I doubt it will happen (real soon if ever):
>>>> 
>>>> - first of all because as we all know "Microsoft is not following
standards but they create them" :) and 
>>>> - because of the fact that IE and its rendering and Javascript
interpretation engine(s) should be tightly coupled with Web Browser
Automation and so it could be very hard to "cut/refactor that Automation
ties" without breaking a lot of custom software using Web Browser Automation
features.
>>>> 
>>>> -- Shamil
>> <<< skipped >>>
>>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> dba-Tech mailing list
>>  dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>>  http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>> Website:  http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>dba-Tech mailing list
>dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>Website:  http://www.databaseadvisors.com

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From accessd at shaw.ca  Thu Feb 14 12:56:14 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 10:56:14 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] So you own a Microsoft Surface PRO
In-Reply-To: <DE51492492D04AF0AA2C444AEACD7BD5@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru><1360834360.258085691@f344.mail.ru><EB9CFF5F-2D68-4BB2-B822-FF8E59899EA6@phulse.com><1360841177.262664090@f270.mail.ru>
	<DE51492492D04AF0AA2C444AEACD7BD5@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <B4EC0D177F994279B3D7DDE634309F1B@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi All:

Anyone who owns a Surface PRO should be able to fix it. 

It batteries are not soldered on like some manufactures, uses rivets instead
of screws but there will be some glue melting to allow you to get into the
case.

http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Microsoft+Surface+Pro+Teardown/12842/1

...but be sure to make a screw sheet show the screw locations as there is
about a hundred screws...even worse than the Dells.

Jim


From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Thu Feb 14 14:09:03 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2013 00:09:03 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech]
 =?utf-8?q?FYI=3A_Moving_to_=22nirvana=22=3A_if_Microso?=
 =?utf-8?q?ft_were_to_shift_to_WebKit=2C_you_can_thank_Opera=2E?=
In-Reply-To: <DE51492492D04AF0AA2C444AEACD7BD5@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru>
	<1360841177.262664090@f270.mail.ru>
	<DE51492492D04AF0AA2C444AEACD7BD5@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <1360872543.230304416@f362.mail.ru>

 Hi Jim --

No, I meant Web Browser Control Automation -? http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa752040(v=vs.85 ).aspx

<<<
does not this coding method defeats the whole
concept of "write once, play everywhere"?
>>>
Yes, it does. But there are quite some customers who do not care about "write once, play everywhere" concept, e.g. the ones who use iPhone/iPad or Android native applications. Of course the latter apps do not have any (direct) links to MS Web Browser Control Automation - I just noted them to underline that "write once, play everywhere concept" (originated by Java or even before) isn't universally requested by all the customers...

-- Shamil

???????, 14 ??????? 2013, 10:24 -08:00 ?? "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca>:
>Hi Shamil:
>
>Just a question and a comment on this "browser automation".
>
>Isn't this built around the concept of adding Plugins into you browser so
>features can be extended to the desktop? Is this not very proprietary code
>and not extendable to any other browser...in other words a developer would
>have to make a plugin for every browser and desktop OS supported?
>
>My personal belief is that plugins should be avoided where at all possible.
>Plugins have been used by so many malware products so I tend to be very
>untrusting of that whole concept of that type of development. Plugins can
>even be used to bridge between the browser's protected sandbox concept and
>the desktop...very dangerous. 
>
>A couple of years ago a company automated the concept of attaching their
>plugin to any browser that viewed their web site. It resulted in your
>desktop being replaced and then it would prompt you to contact their site
>for a solution to remove the malware at the price of $29. Browser security
>has since been improved. 
>
>IMHO, if particular functionality is required it should either be coded
>directly into the FE or BE of your web page, where at all possible or no
>plugin should be allowed unless they have been vetted through one of the
>many app stores. In addition, does not this coding method defeats the whole
>concept of "write once, play everywhere"?
>
>Jim 
<<< skipped >>>
>

From john at winhaven.net  Thu Feb 14 14:45:36 2013
From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 14:45:36 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] So you own a Microsoft Surface PRO
In-Reply-To: <B4EC0D177F994279B3D7DDE634309F1B@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru><1360834360.258085691@f344.mail.ru><EB9CFF5F-2D68-4BB2-B822-FF8E59899EA6@phulse.com><1360841177.262664090@f270.mail.ru>	<DE51492492D04AF0AA2C444AEACD7BD5@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<B4EC0D177F994279B3D7DDE634309F1B@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <015801ce0af4$3e089190$ba19b4b0$@winhaven.net>

Lol - unfortunately I enjoy doing this kind of thing once in a while. I'm
going to be attempting to replace my old android tablet's battery soon. I
may end up with a brick instead.

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:56 PM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: [dba-Tech] So you own a Microsoft Surface PRO

Hi All:

Anyone who owns a Surface PRO should be able to fix it. 

It batteries are not soldered on like some manufactures, uses rivets instead
of screws but there will be some glue melting to allow you to get into the
case.

http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Microsoft+Surface+Pro+Teardown/12842/1

...but be sure to make a screw sheet show the screw locations as there is
about a hundred screws...even worse than the Dells.

Jim

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From accessd at shaw.ca  Thu Feb 14 15:44:08 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 13:44:08 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] So you own a Microsoft Surface PRO
In-Reply-To: <015801ce0af4$3e089190$ba19b4b0$@winhaven.net>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru><1360834360.258085691@f344.mail.ru><EB9CFF5F-2D68-4BB2-B822-FF8E59899EA6@phulse.com><1360841177.262664090@f270.mail.ru>	<DE51492492D04AF0AA2C444AEACD7BD5@creativesystemdesigns.com><B4EC0D177F994279B3D7DDE634309F1B@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<015801ce0af4$3e089190$ba19b4b0$@winhaven.net>
Message-ID: <A6F584A5DEAF4F29A44BF9D4D0E46B32@creativesystemdesigns.com>

TechRepublic has a good collection of articles on taking apart most of the
common pieces of hardware. I would check there first before becoming too
bold. ;-)

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:46 PM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] So you own a Microsoft Surface PRO

Lol - unfortunately I enjoy doing this kind of thing once in a while. I'm
going to be attempting to replace my old android tablet's battery soon. I
may end up with a brick instead.

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:56 PM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: [dba-Tech] So you own a Microsoft Surface PRO

Hi All:

Anyone who owns a Surface PRO should be able to fix it. 

It batteries are not soldered on like some manufactures, uses rivets instead
of screws but there will be some glue melting to allow you to get into the
case.

http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Microsoft+Surface+Pro+Teardown/12842/1

...but be sure to make a screw sheet show the screw locations as there is
about a hundred screws...even worse than the Dells.

Jim

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From john at winhaven.net  Thu Feb 14 15:51:39 2013
From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 15:51:39 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] So you own a Microsoft Surface PRO
In-Reply-To: <A6F584A5DEAF4F29A44BF9D4D0E46B32@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru><1360834360.258085691@f344.mail.ru><EB9CFF5F-2D68-4BB2-B822-FF8E59899EA6@phulse.com><1360841177.262664090@f270.mail.ru>	<DE51492492D04AF0AA2C444AEACD7BD5@creativesystemdesigns.com><B4EC0D177F994279B3D7DDE634309F1B@creativesystemdesigns.com>	<015801ce0af4$3e089190$ba19b4b0$@winhaven.net>
	<A6F584A5DEAF4F29A44BF9D4D0E46B32@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <016e01ce0afd$77f128a0$67d379e0$@winhaven.net>

OK, thanks

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 3:44 PM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] So you own a Microsoft Surface PRO

TechRepublic has a good collection of articles on taking apart most of the
common pieces of hardware. I would check there first before becoming too
bold. ;-)

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:46 PM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] So you own a Microsoft Surface PRO

Lol - unfortunately I enjoy doing this kind of thing once in a while. I'm
going to be attempting to replace my old android tablet's battery soon. I
may end up with a brick instead.

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:56 PM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: [dba-Tech] So you own a Microsoft Surface PRO

Hi All:

Anyone who owns a Surface PRO should be able to fix it. 

It batteries are not soldered on like some manufactures, uses rivets instead
of screws but there will be some glue melting to allow you to get into the
case.

http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Microsoft+Surface+Pro+Teardown/12842/1

...but be sure to make a screw sheet show the screw locations as there is
about a hundred screws...even worse than the Dells.

Jim

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From accessd at shaw.ca  Thu Feb 14 16:18:37 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 14:18:37 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] FYI: Moving to "nirvana": if Microsoft were to shift
	to WebKit, you can thank Opera.
In-Reply-To: <1360872543.230304416@f362.mail.ru>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru><1360841177.262664090@f270.mail.ru><DE51492492D04AF0AA2C444AEACD7BD5@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<1360872543.230304416@f362.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <D8DE94CC96B44A57A67B1AD2A8A489A1@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Shamil:

Sorry for the confusion. 

Are you sure this is right?

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa752041(v=vs.85).aspx

Running a web browser object from the desktop? It is just a one-off
application. IMHO, that is not where the market is heading and the number of
supporting clients will only continue to diminish. I think it is not a good
long-term business strategy.

Many years ago built and ran a browser, in a Visual Basic application for a
government client. Adding new features has obviously improved.

My clients are asking to be able to update their websites in real-time and
be able to access their inventory and invoicing from anywhere. And they like
the idea of not having to update their hardware or having to install
specialty software to get all these bells and whistles. 

In the short run it sounds like a good idea but my big clients are(were) too
security conscience and my small ones are too cheap to go that route. ;-)

Jim 

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov
Shamil
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:09 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] FYI: Moving to "nirvana": if Microsoft were to shift
to WebKit, you can thank Opera.

 Hi Jim --

No, I meant Web Browser Control Automation -?
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa752040(v=vs.85 ).aspx

<<<
does not this coding method defeats the whole
concept of "write once, play everywhere"?
>>>
Yes, it does. But there are quite some customers who do not care about
"write once, play everywhere" concept, e.g. the ones who use iPhone/iPad or
Android native applications. Of course the latter apps do not have any
(direct) links to MS Web Browser Control Automation - I just noted them to
underline that "write once, play everywhere concept" (originated by Java or
even before) isn't universally requested by all the customers...

-- Shamil

???????, 14 ??????? 2013, 10:24 -08:00 ?? "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca>:
>Hi Shamil:
>
>Just a question and a comment on this "browser automation".
>
>Isn't this built around the concept of adding Plugins into you browser so
>features can be extended to the desktop? Is this not very proprietary code
>and not extendable to any other browser...in other words a developer would
>have to make a plugin for every browser and desktop OS supported?
>
>My personal belief is that plugins should be avoided where at all possible.
>Plugins have been used by so many malware products so I tend to be very
>untrusting of that whole concept of that type of development. Plugins can
>even be used to bridge between the browser's protected sandbox concept and
>the desktop...very dangerous. 
>
>A couple of years ago a company automated the concept of attaching their
>plugin to any browser that viewed their web site. It resulted in your
>desktop being replaced and then it would prompt you to contact their site
>for a solution to remove the malware at the price of $29. Browser security
>has since been improved. 
>
>IMHO, if particular functionality is required it should either be coded
>directly into the FE or BE of your web page, where at all possible or no
>plugin should be allowed unless they have been vetted through one of the
>many app stores. In addition, does not this coding method defeats the whole
>concept of "write once, play everywhere"?
>
>Jim 
<<< skipped >>>
>
_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Thu Feb 14 23:35:47 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2013 09:35:47 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech]
 =?utf-8?q?FYI=3A_Moving_to_=22nirvana=22=3A_if_Microso?=
 =?utf-8?q?ft_were_to_shift_to_WebKit=2C_you_can_thank_Opera=2E?=
In-Reply-To: <D8DE94CC96B44A57A67B1AD2A8A489A1@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru>
	<1360872543.230304416@f362.mail.ru>
	<D8DE94CC96B44A57A67B1AD2A8A489A1@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <1360906547.415180643@f43.mail.ru>

 Hi Jim --

Yes, that link  http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa752041 (v=vs.85).aspx? is correct.

I must note I haven't written anywhere in this thread that my customers have this technology as the core one for their businesses.
I must also note that from the sample links I have provided follows that *conceptually* similar "automation" approach is implemented for all the main browsers, and that "automation" implementations allow to have generic declarative/scripting web apps testing tools as Selenium and WatiN and others, and such tools would be used more and more if/when HTML5 and browser would become the main (web) apps hosts as you're expecting...

As for "write once, play/run anywhere" - we have different expectations/views on that subject AFAIS: I have written already that I do not expect HTML5/browsers to become the only apps hosts nor in the near future, nor in the far future. Native mobile and desktop apps are to exist forever because as far as I suppose they will always be the main drivers of innovations. The mobile and desktop apps can "morph" their shapes as mobile and desktop devices getting their "shapes morphed" but that morphing will not change their nature. Of course the new types of apps will definitely appear. What that will be? I do not know...

Thank you.

-- Shamil

???????, 14 ??????? 2013, 14:18 -08:00 ?? "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca>:
>Hi Shamil:
>
>Sorry for the confusion. 
>
>Are you sure this is right?
>
>http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa752041 (v=vs.85).aspx
>
>Running a web browser object from the desktop? It is just a one-off
>application. IMHO, that is not where the market is heading and the number of
>supporting clients will only continue to diminish. I think it is not a good
>long-term business strategy.
>
>Many years ago built and ran a browser, in a Visual Basic application for a
>government client. Adding new features has obviously improved.
>
>My clients are asking to be able to update their websites in real-time and
>be able to access their inventory and invoicing from anywhere. And they like
>the idea of not having to update their hardware or having to install
>specialty software to get all these bells and whistles. 
>
>In the short run it sounds like a good idea but my big clients are(were) too
>security conscience and my small ones are too cheap to go that route. ;-)
>
>Jim 
<<< skipped >>>>
>

From accessd at shaw.ca  Fri Feb 15 14:11:22 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2013 12:11:22 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] FYI: Moving to "nirvana": if Microsoft were to shift
	to WebKit, you can thank Opera.
In-Reply-To: <1360906547.415180643@f43.mail.ru>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru><1360872543.230304416@f362.mail.ru><D8DE94CC96B44A57A67B1AD2A8A489A1@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<1360906547.415180643@f43.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <600D8229CE3C4F3F8CAAA5879E471996@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Shamil:

You are right of course that no matter what the changes are, now and in the
future for computers there will always have a requirement for an OS to
manage things. 

You are also right that it is always better to code at the lowest possible
level as it results in a faster and smaller program. The downside is being
limited to a single platform. 

The higher level the coding the more complex and therefore slower the
performance. The upside is to an application is it being available on
multiple platforms.

"Write once, run everywhere" has been the Holy Grail of the computing
community since the beginning of computers and whether we have reached that
capability or even are coming close, is a point of much debate.

Jim
   
-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov
Shamil
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 9:36 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] FYI: Moving to "nirvana": if Microsoft were to shift
to WebKit, you can thank Opera.

 Hi Jim --

Yes, that link  http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa752041
(v=vs.85).aspx? is correct.

I must note I haven't written anywhere in this thread that my customers have
this technology as the core one for their businesses.
I must also note that from the sample links I have provided follows that
*conceptually* similar "automation" approach is implemented for all the main
browsers, and that "automation" implementations allow to have generic
declarative/scripting web apps testing tools as Selenium and WatiN and
others, and such tools would be used more and more if/when HTML5 and browser
would become the main (web) apps hosts as you're expecting...

As for "write once, play/run anywhere" - we have different
expectations/views on that subject AFAIS: I have written already that I do
not expect HTML5/browsers to become the only apps hosts nor in the near
future, nor in the far future. Native mobile and desktop apps are to exist
forever because as far as I suppose they will always be the main drivers of
innovations. The mobile and desktop apps can "morph" their shapes as mobile
and desktop devices getting their "shapes morphed" but that morphing will
not change their nature. Of course the new types of apps will definitely
appear. What that will be? I do not know...

Thank you.

-- Shamil

???????, 14 ??????? 2013, 14:18 -08:00 ?? "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca>:
>Hi Shamil:
>
>Sorry for the confusion. 
>
>Are you sure this is right?
>
>http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa752041 (v=vs.85).aspx
>
>Running a web browser object from the desktop? It is just a one-off
>application. IMHO, that is not where the market is heading and the number
of
>supporting clients will only continue to diminish. I think it is not a good
>long-term business strategy.
>
>Many years ago built and ran a browser, in a Visual Basic application for a
>government client. Adding new features has obviously improved.
>
>My clients are asking to be able to update their websites in real-time and
>be able to access their inventory and invoicing from anywhere. And they
like
>the idea of not having to update their hardware or having to install
>specialty software to get all these bells and whistles. 
>
>In the short run it sounds like a good idea but my big clients are(were)
too
>security conscience and my small ones are too cheap to go that route. ;-)
>
>Jim 
<<< skipped >>>>
>
_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Fri Feb 15 14:43:40 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2013 00:43:40 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech]
 =?utf-8?q?FYI=3A_Moving_to_=22nirvana=22=3A_if_Microso?=
 =?utf-8?q?ft_were_to_shift_to_WebKit=2C_you_can_thank_Opera=2E?=
In-Reply-To: <600D8229CE3C4F3F8CAAA5879E471996@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru>
	<1360906547.415180643@f43.mail.ru>
	<600D8229CE3C4F3F8CAAA5879E471996@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <1360961020.775421656@f212.mail.ru>

 Hi Jim --

<<<
The downside is being?limited to a single platform.
>>>
Sorry, but modern desktop, mobile and web FE apps could have their (web) services *core* parts/components running on several servers operating under different OSes anywhere in this small world with desktop app being an MS Windows one, mobile app being iPhone, Android and/or WinPhone, ... one and web app being ASP.NET or PHP or Ruby or Python or .... ones...

<<<
"Write once, run everywhere" has been the Holy Grail of the computing
community since the beginning of computers...
>>>
It's obsolete now I suppose - I mean it was a false goal of the past, false because as it happened it can never be achieved - and that is good news IMO - no need to waste valuable resources "hunting for ghost goals"...

<<<
... whether we have reached that
capability or even are coming close, is a point of much debate.
>>>
Yes, debates will continue anyway :)

Thank you.

-- Shamil

???????, 15 ??????? 2013, 12:11 -08:00 ?? "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca>:
>Hi Shamil:
>
>You are right of course that no matter what the changes are, now and in the
>future for computers there will always have a requirement for an OS to
>manage things. 
>
>You are also right that it is always better to code at the lowest possible
>level as it results in a faster and smaller program. The downside is being
>limited to a single platform. 
>
>The higher level the coding the more complex and therefore slower the
>performance. The upside is to an application is it being available on
>multiple platforms.
>
>"Write once, run everywhere" has been the Holy Grail of the computing
>community since the beginning of computers and whether we have reached that
>capability or even are coming close, is a point of much debate.
>
>Jim
<<< skipped >>>
>

From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Fri Feb 15 16:55:22 2013
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2013 08:55:22 +1000
Subject: [dba-Tech] Cloud computing, anyone?
In-Reply-To: <1360961020.775421656@f212.mail.ru>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru>,
	<600D8229CE3C4F3F8CAAA5879E471996@creativesystemdesigns.com>,
	<1360961020.775421656@f212.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <511EBCDA.23347.28C16A0E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>


"Four days have passed since a "procedural operations error" downed Azure SQL Reporting 
in Microsoft's East US data center, and Redmond is still trying to restore customer data."  

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/02/15/microsoft_azure_sql_reporting_cleanup/

From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Fri Feb 15 17:42:29 2013
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2013 09:42:29 +1000
Subject: [dba-Tech] Andorid now has 70%  Smartphone marketshare
In-Reply-To: <511EBCDA.23347.28C16A0E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru>,
	<1360961020.775421656@f212.mail.ru>,
	<511EBCDA.23347.28C16A0E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
Message-ID: <511EC7E5.7296.28EC8C8C@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

Interesting figures in the tables:

http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20130214005415/en/Android-iOS-Combinid

-- 
Stuart



From accessd at shaw.ca  Fri Feb 15 18:24:42 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2013 16:24:42 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Andorid now has 70%  Smartphone marketshare
In-Reply-To: <511EC7E5.7296.28EC8C8C@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru>,
	<1360961020.775421656@f212.mail.ru>,
	<511EBCDA.23347.28C16A0E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
	<511EC7E5.7296.28EC8C8C@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
Message-ID: <00770C225BD848C5A08D9997C32D5A02@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Stuart:

That does say it all. 

The market is going to be driven by Android and iOS for the next little
while and who knows even Blackberry and Symbian might play a small part.
Then there is still Windows (brand-new off the showroom floor) and Linux
(Ubuntu Linux isn't even shipping yet) but I would expect nothing ground
breaking or any surprises for next few years. The battles amongst the small
players will prove to be the most interesting though...one or two percent
one way or the other.

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2013 3:42 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: [dba-Tech] Andorid now has 70% Smartphone marketshare

Interesting figures in the tables:

http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20130214005415/en/Android-iOS-Combinid

-- 
Stuart


_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From accessd at shaw.ca  Fri Feb 15 18:31:27 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2013 16:31:27 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Cloud computing, anyone?
In-Reply-To: <511EBCDA.23347.28C16A0E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru>,
	<600D8229CE3C4F3F8CAAA5879E471996@creativesystemdesigns.com>,
	<1360961020.775421656@f212.mail.ru>
	<511EBCDA.23347.28C16A0E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
Message-ID: <66D38FA4E7F04F66AA58033035A35A19@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Stuart:

I remember about this time last when Amazon was going through the same
growing pains. I hope Microsoft's insurance is paid up especially if some
big client lost a lot of data...but no one in their right mind would bet the
farm on some unproven system...would they? 

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2013 2:55 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: [dba-Tech] Cloud computing, anyone?


"Four days have passed since a "procedural operations error" downed Azure
SQL Reporting 
in Microsoft's East US data center, and Redmond is still trying to restore
customer data."  

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/02/15/microsoft_azure_sql_reporting_cleanu
p/
_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From hans.andersen at phulse.com  Fri Feb 15 20:43:29 2013
From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen)
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2013 18:43:29 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Andorid now has 70%  Smartphone marketshare
In-Reply-To: <511EC7E5.7296.28EC8C8C@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru>
	<1360961020.775421656@f212.mail.ru>
	<511EBCDA.23347.28C16A0E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
	<511EC7E5.7296.28EC8C8C@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
Message-ID: <1050F5BC-A3CC-4E4C-8A44-79784FBFF349@phulse.com>

I'm a bit confused as to why they separated Android and Linux. Android is Linux!

- Hans


On 2013-02-15, at 3:42 PM, "Stuart McLachlan" <stuart at lexacorp.com.pg> wrote:

> Interesting figures in the tables:
> 
> http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20130214005415/en/Android-iOS-Combinid
> 
> -- 
> Stuart
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Fri Feb 15 21:06:40 2013
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2013 13:06:40 +1000
Subject: [dba-Tech] Andorid now has 70%  Smartphone marketshare
In-Reply-To: <1050F5BC-A3CC-4E4C-8A44-79784FBFF349@phulse.com>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru>,
	<511EC7E5.7296.28EC8C8C@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>,
	<1050F5BC-A3CC-4E4C-8A44-79784FBFF349@phulse.com>
Message-ID: <511EF7C0.25508.29A77B9F@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

Or maybe, more accurately  a "Linux fork" ?

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/linus-torvalds-on-android-the-linux-fork/9426



On 15 Feb 2013 at 18:43, Hans-Christian Andersen wrote:

> I'm a bit confused as to why they separated Android and Linux. Android is Linux!
> 
> - Hans
> 
> 
> On 2013-02-15, at 3:42 PM, "Stuart McLachlan" <stuart at lexacorp.com.pg> wrote:
> 
> > Interesting figures in the tables:
> > 
> > http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20130214005415/en/Android-iOS-Combinid
> > 
> > -- 
> > Stuart
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > dba-Tech mailing list
> > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 



From hans.andersen at phulse.com  Fri Feb 15 23:57:20 2013
From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen)
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2013 21:57:20 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Andorid now has 70%  Smartphone marketshare
In-Reply-To: <511EF7C0.25508.29A77B9F@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru>
	<511EC7E5.7296.28EC8C8C@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
	<1050F5BC-A3CC-4E4C-8A44-79784FBFF349@phulse.com>
	<511EF7C0.25508.29A77B9F@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
Message-ID: <434B4D24-195B-46B3-8965-81A5E888F332@phulse.com>

Sure, if you want to call it that. It's still based on Linux.

- Hans


On 2013-02-15, at 7:06 PM, "Stuart McLachlan" <stuart at lexacorp.com.pg> wrote:

> Or maybe, more accurately  a "Linux fork" ?
> 
> http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/linus-torvalds-on-android-the-linux-fork/9426
> 
> 
> 
> On 15 Feb 2013 at 18:43, Hans-Christian Andersen wrote:
> 
>> I'm a bit confused as to why they separated Android and Linux. Android is Linux!
>> 
>> - Hans
>> 
>> 
>> On 2013-02-15, at 3:42 PM, "Stuart McLachlan" <stuart at lexacorp.com.pg> wrote:
>> 
>>> Interesting figures in the tables:
>>> 
>>> http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20130214005415/en/Android-iOS-Combinid
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Stuart
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> dba-Tech mailing list
>>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> dba-Tech mailing list
>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From accessd at shaw.ca  Sat Feb 16 11:50:20 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2013 09:50:20 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] FYI: Moving to "nirvana": if Microsoft were to shift
	to WebKit, you can thank Opera.
In-Reply-To: <1360961020.775421656@f212.mail.ru>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru><1360906547.415180643@f43.mail.ru><600D8229CE3C4F3F8CAAA5879E471996@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<1360961020.775421656@f212.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <40A5396B8EA649D89085F442177954F9@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Shamil:

There are two basic functions performed on computers; that of consuming and
that of providing. User computers like tablet and Smartphones are designed
for consuming, user computers like desktops and laptops are designed for the
dual purpose of consuming and providing and computers like servers are
designed for providing.
 
There is not a computer that has internet capability or just has a browser,
that can not run WebPages and those pages are designed with JavaScript, HTML
and CSS. Whether the web page is the best choice in all cases can be debated
but that debate would have to be given on the bases of a one on one
situation.

As for providing for the consumer an endless variety of web languages,
databases and web servers available but this is backend support.

The market has shifted dramatically over the last several years and the true
desktop market has shrank...people who are just consumers have no need for
the capabilities of a desktop. Even new and existing desktops are now being
used mostly as browser platforms. If you support databases on even a single
server most of the management front-ends are browser based, from Oracle to
MySQL. Existing desktop applications are being migrated to a web based
interface like MS Office via SharePoint and now through Office365...

The question as to do we have an application that can be "written once and
run everywhere" and the answer is "yes".

Jim       

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov
Shamil
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2013 12:44 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] FYI: Moving to "nirvana": if Microsoft were to shift
to WebKit, you can thank Opera.

 Hi Jim --

<<<
The downside is being?limited to a single platform.
>>>
Sorry, but modern desktop, mobile and web FE apps could have their (web)
services *core* parts/components running on several servers operating under
different OSes anywhere in this small world with desktop app being an MS
Windows one, mobile app being iPhone, Android and/or WinPhone, ... one and
web app being ASP.NET or PHP or Ruby or Python or .... ones...

<<<
"Write once, run everywhere" has been the Holy Grail of the computing
community since the beginning of computers...
>>>
It's obsolete now I suppose - I mean it was a false goal of the past, false
because as it happened it can never be achieved - and that is good news IMO
- no need to waste valuable resources "hunting for ghost goals"...

<<<
... whether we have reached that
capability or even are coming close, is a point of much debate.
>>>
Yes, debates will continue anyway :)

Thank you.

-- Shamil

???????, 15 ??????? 2013, 12:11 -08:00 ?? "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca>:
>Hi Shamil:
>
>You are right of course that no matter what the changes are, now and in the
>future for computers there will always have a requirement for an OS to
>manage things. 
>
>You are also right that it is always better to code at the lowest possible
>level as it results in a faster and smaller program. The downside is being
>limited to a single platform. 
>
>The higher level the coding the more complex and therefore slower the
>performance. The upside is to an application is it being available on
>multiple platforms.
>
>"Write once, run everywhere" has been the Holy Grail of the computing
>community since the beginning of computers and whether we have reached that
>capability or even are coming close, is a point of much debate.
>
>Jim
<<< skipped >>>
>
_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From accessd at shaw.ca  Sat Feb 16 12:14:27 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2013 10:14:27 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] How to make an icon
In-Reply-To: <40A5396B8EA649D89085F442177954F9@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru><1360906547.415180643@f43.mail.ru><600D8229CE3C4F3F8CAAA5879E471996@creativesystemdesigns.com><1360961020.775421656@f212.mail.ru>
	<40A5396B8EA649D89085F442177954F9@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <748FF943C2F14EAA87792691878DF1B9@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi All:

The following link may seem a little cutesy but for all of us who have
difficulty building the Favicon for the client's website here is a link to a
very simple tutorial with a point by point technique that even non artists
can use.

http://www.photonstorm.com/archives/2291/16x16-pixel-art-tutorial

Enjoy
Jim


From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Sat Feb 16 12:52:37 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2013 22:52:37 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech]
 =?utf-8?q?FYI=3A_Moving_to_=22nirvana=22=3A_if_Microso?=
 =?utf-8?q?ft_were_to_shift_to_WebKit=2C_you_can_thank_Opera=2E?=
In-Reply-To: <40A5396B8EA649D89085F442177954F9@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru>
	<1360961020.775421656@f212.mail.ru>
	<40A5396B8EA649D89085F442177954F9@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <1361040757.701792181@f159.mail.ru>

 Hi Jim --

Sorry, I have to disagree.

That's not that desktop market has shrank but mobile market has exploded, hasn't it?
Do you see a lot of business apps running on mobile devices?
They will definitely appear but AFAIS from the current trends that would be native apps first of all.

?Yes, you can develop one web application to use from within browsers on all the main platforms but that would be like unisex?clothes and that web apps will always be behind/lagging the technology innovations trends as "unisex HTML/CSS/Javascript" web apps cannot be innovation drivers.

Do you like unisex and uniform clothes? I don't. A few people do like them AFAIK. If one will try to make *non-unisex* web apps' UIs - I mean to design web apps UIs special way for every target browsing platform fitting that platform design guidelines then the efforts for such designs will be as large as efforts to develop native apps, and as I have noted above even in that case HTML/CSS/JavaScript *non-unisex* apps will be behind technology innovations - does it make sense then to try to aim at developing *non-unisex* web apps UIs?...

-- Shamil

???????, 16 ??????? 2013, 9:50 -08:00 ?? "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca>:
>Hi Shamil:
>
>There are two basic functions performed on computers; that of consuming and
>that of providing. User computers like tablet and Smartphones are designed
>for consuming, user computers like desktops and laptops are designed for the
>dual purpose of consuming and providing and computers like servers are
>designed for providing.
>
>There is not a computer that has internet capability or just has a browser,
>that can not run WebPages and those pages are designed with JavaScript, HTML
>and CSS. Whether the web page is the best choice in all cases can be debated
>but that debate would have to be given on the bases of a one on one
>situation.
>
>As for providing for the consumer an endless variety of web languages,
>databases and web servers available but this is backend support.
>
>The market has shifted dramatically over the last several years and the true
>desktop market has shrank...people who are just consumers have no need for
>the capabilities of a desktop. Even new and existing desktops are now being
>used mostly as browser platforms. If you support databases on even a single
>server most of the management front-ends are browser based, from Oracle to
>MySQL. Existing desktop applications are being migrated to a web based
>interface like MS Office via SharePoint and now through Office365...
>
>The question as to do we have an application that can be "written once and
>run everywhere" and the answer is "yes".
>
>Jim 
<<< skipped >>>
>

From accessd at shaw.ca  Sat Feb 16 12:55:03 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2013 10:55:03 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] How to remove Malware
In-Reply-To: <748FF943C2F14EAA87792691878DF1B9@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru><1360906547.415180643@f43.mail.ru><600D8229CE3C4F3F8CAAA5879E471996@creativesystemdesigns.com><1360961020.775421656@f212.mail.ru><40A5396B8EA649D89085F442177954F9@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<748FF943C2F14EAA87792691878DF1B9@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <CD1EEEE7425B440B9F63D51C86D13C78@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi All:

Many people depend on their various security software packages to detect and
destroy all threats. When a user has done something really stupid and a
piece of malware has secured itself within their OS what steps do you take
to remove it? 

Over the years I would suspect that you, techs have done much of this type
work already but here is a concise little article on the step by step
removal and recovery process.

http://blogs.technet.com/b/markrussinovich/archive/2013/01/07/3543763.aspx

Hope this helps someone.
Jim 


From accessd at shaw.ca  Sat Feb 16 13:26:40 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2013 11:26:40 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] So what is the newest trends in computers?
In-Reply-To: <CD1EEEE7425B440B9F63D51C86D13C78@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru><1360906547.415180643@f43.mail.ru><600D8229CE3C4F3F8CAAA5879E471996@creativesystemdesigns.com><1360961020.775421656@f212.mail.ru><40A5396B8EA649D89085F442177954F9@creativesystemdesigns.com><748FF943C2F14EAA87792691878DF1B9@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<CD1EEEE7425B440B9F63D51C86D13C78@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <35749D72AE354660B40E9EF0DDB6C1E4@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi All:

The next couple of inventions show some promise and it will depend on
whether we like wearing a "Dick Tracy" watch or a pair of "Geek" glasses. 

Aside: These are all steps to the final goal in which we will be recording
our life and events continuously. Imagine at one point if someone says, "I
said such and such..." and then you will just zip back to actual point where
they said something and review it, and either prove or disprove their
assertion. It will be like perfect memory. Whether it is a good thing or not
is debatable but this is where we are heading.

Two new options will be GOOgle glasses and the iWatch from Apple. Which one
will you choose?

http://pandodaily.com/2013/02/13/forget-mobile-vs-desktop-the-future-of-comp
uting-will-be-a-question-of-head-vs-wrist/

Jim


From fuller.artful at gmail.com  Sat Feb 16 13:48:45 2013
From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller)
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2013 14:48:45 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] So what is the newest trends in computers?
In-Reply-To: <35749D72AE354660B40E9EF0DDB6C1E4@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru>
	<1360906547.415180643@f43.mail.ru>
	<600D8229CE3C4F3F8CAAA5879E471996@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<1360961020.775421656@f212.mail.ru>
	<40A5396B8EA649D89085F442177954F9@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<748FF943C2F14EAA87792691878DF1B9@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<CD1EEEE7425B440B9F63D51C86D13C78@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<35749D72AE354660B40E9EF0DDB6C1E4@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <CAEPJO1jbE42a5MH9M498AeFivPyp_=_D04s3=cv97QpDmi_s0g@mail.gmail.com>

I have two large problems with "The final goal in which we will be
recording our life and events contrinuously".
1. Will we record those moments when we are watching our previous
recordings? I see a fractal in here.
2. I can't speak for anyone else, but I can say that my regrets far
outnumber my achievements; and I replay them too often as it is, without
technological assistance.

Arthur

From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk  Sat Feb 16 13:58:49 2013
From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid)
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2013 19:58:49 +0000
Subject: [dba-Tech] So what is the newest trends in computers?
In-Reply-To: <35749D72AE354660B40E9EF0DDB6C1E4@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru>
	<1360906547.415180643@f43.mail.ru>
	<600D8229CE3C4F3F8CAAA5879E471996@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<1360961020.775421656@f212.mail.ru>
	<40A5396B8EA649D89085F442177954F9@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<748FF943C2F14EAA87792691878DF1B9@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<CD1EEEE7425B440B9F63D51C86D13C78@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<35749D72AE354660B40E9EF0DDB6C1E4@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <A3C2E37C-0622-451D-9C25-8BB3702A93C6@qub.ac.uk>

Neither.

Never look back. 

Martin

Sent from my iPad

On 16 Feb 2013, at 19:27, "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:

> Hi All:
> 
> The next couple of inventions show some promise and it will depend on
> whether we like wearing a "Dick Tracy" watch or a pair of "Geek" glasses. 
> 
> Aside: These are all steps to the final goal in which we will be recording
> our life and events continuously. Imagine at one point if someone says, "I
> said such and such..." and then you will just zip back to actual point where
> they said something and review it, and either prove or disprove their
> assertion. It will be like perfect memory. Whether it is a good thing or not
> is debatable but this is where we are heading.
> 
> Two new options will be GOOgle glasses and the iWatch from Apple. Which one
> will you choose?
> 
> http://pandodaily.com/2013/02/13/forget-mobile-vs-desktop-the-future-of-comp
> uting-will-be-a-question-of-head-vs-wrist/
> 
> Jim
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From accessd at shaw.ca  Sat Feb 16 14:19:04 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2013 12:19:04 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] FYI: Moving to "nirvana": if Microsoft were to shift
	to WebKit, you can thank Opera.
In-Reply-To: <1361040757.701792181@f159.mail.ru>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru><1360961020.775421656@f212.mail.ru><40A5396B8EA649D89085F442177954F9@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<1361040757.701792181@f159.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <36E6D7031444415490E1B2797FAD69AF@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Shamil:

Well, I will explain my observations and why I have come to those
conclusions.

When still working in the business, most of my clients were franchise type
businesses and of course banks. Even though all the store and bank clerks
had desktops, their working apps were slowly (quickly) being moved into
browser based desktops. The station was still required but the main
application were run on a browser. 

This trend was done for a number of reasons; hardware and OS was no longer a
major consideration, site issues are less relevant, no need for station
version control, central data management and application development,
pricing and option changes availability in real time, no station or server
licensing and that is just a few of the reasons.

Just like a desktop-installed and run application, a browser based
application can virtually look and run anything you can imagine. Far from
Unisex, it is the new artist palette of the present and future. To that end,
all the new jobs require modern tech-developers to be very knowledgeable in
front end development, HTML, JavaScript and CSS, competent a number web
languages, from ASP.Net to Ruby, website design (maybe a bit of graphic
design), web server and database structure and finally the ability to learn
fast.

Today, programmers in the web development field are part of one of the
fastest growing industry in the world. Over fifty percent of developers
develop for the internet/browsers and that number is growing ever year.
There is still a need for developers to support legacy applications but that
is hardly a growth market and even many of the older applications being
supported will be migrating to the browser, in the near future.

Below is a link to an article discussing the modern developer and the
associated incentives.

http://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/web-developer

OTOH, legacy applications will still be around for a while and we will still
be needed to support them but our daughters, sons and other younger family
members, if they go into the business, will not be working on many if any
desktop applications. Times are changing.

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov
Shamil
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 10:53 AM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] FYI: Moving to "nirvana": if Microsoft were to shift
to WebKit, you can thank Opera.

 Hi Jim --

Sorry, I have to disagree.

That's not that desktop market has shrank but mobile market has exploded,
hasn't it?
Do you see a lot of business apps running on mobile devices?
They will definitely appear but AFAIS from the current trends that would be
native apps first of all.

?Yes, you can develop one web application to use from within browsers on all
the main platforms but that would be like unisex?clothes and that web apps
will always be behind/lagging the technology innovations trends as "unisex
HTML/CSS/Javascript" web apps cannot be innovation drivers.

Do you like unisex and uniform clothes? I don't. A few people do like them
AFAIK. If one will try to make *non-unisex* web apps' UIs - I mean to design
web apps UIs special way for every target browsing platform fitting that
platform design guidelines then the efforts for such designs will be as
large as efforts to develop native apps, and as I have noted above even in
that case HTML/CSS/JavaScript *non-unisex* apps will be behind technology
innovations - does it make sense then to try to aim at developing
*non-unisex* web apps UIs?...

-- Shamil



From accessd at shaw.ca  Sat Feb 16 14:34:26 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2013 12:34:26 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] So what is the newest trends in computers?
In-Reply-To: <CAEPJO1jbE42a5MH9M498AeFivPyp_=_D04s3=cv97QpDmi_s0g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru><1360906547.415180643@f43.mail.ru><600D8229CE3C4F3F8CAAA5879E471996@creativesystemdesigns.com><1360961020.775421656@f212.mail.ru><40A5396B8EA649D89085F442177954F9@creativesystemdesigns.com><748FF943C2F14EAA87792691878DF1B9@creativesystemdesigns.com><CD1EEEE7425B440B9F63D51C86D13C78@creativesystemdesigns.com><35749D72AE354660B40E9EF0DDB6C1E4@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<CAEPJO1jbE42a5MH9M498AeFivPyp_=_D04s3=cv97QpDmi_s0g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D0CF5FA1EFAC4CC2BADA2AD042B5F5D7@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Ha ha ha...

It is terrible to have to second guess yourself always...what if you had
done something different? If we criticize ourselves for what we can not
change it is really pointless... 

The only thing to do is not make the same mistake again...make another one
instead. ;-)

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 11:49 AM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] So what is the newest trends in computers?

I have two large problems with "The final goal in which we will be
recording our life and events contrinuously".
1. Will we record those moments when we are watching our previous
recordings? I see a fractal in here.
2. I can't speak for anyone else, but I can say that my regrets far
outnumber my achievements; and I replay them too often as it is, without
technological assistance.

Arthur
_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Sat Feb 16 14:44:05 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2013 00:44:05 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech]
 =?utf-8?q?So_what_is_the_newest_trends_in_computers=3F?=
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru>
	<35749D72AE354660B40E9EF0DDB6C1E4@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <1361047445.502618176@f320.mail.ru>

 <<<
1. Will we record those moments when we are watching our previous
recordings? I see a fractal in here.
>>>
LOL, thank you Arthur :)

Yes, they say fractals are all around us and " exist at multiple levels within the human body ":

<quote>
If you like fractals, it is because you are made of them. If you can?t stand fractals, it?s because you can?t stand yourself. It happens.
-- Homer Smith, Computer Engineer, Art Matrix </quote>

http://www.goertzel.org/dynapsyc/2002/FractalPsyche.htm

:)

-- Shamil

???????, 16 ??????? 2013, 14:48 -05:00 ?? Arthur Fuller <fuller.artful at gmail.com>:
>I have two large problems with "The final goal in which we will be
>recording our life and events contrinuously".
>1. Will we record those moments when we are watching our previous
>recordings? I see a fractal in here.
>2. I can't speak for anyone else, but I can say that my regrets far
>outnumber my achievements; and I replay them too often as it is, without
>technological assistance.
>
>Arthur
>_______________________________________________
>dba-Tech mailing list
>dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>Website:  http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From hans.andersen at phulse.com  Sat Feb 16 15:31:52 2013
From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen)
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2013 13:31:52 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] How to remove Malware
In-Reply-To: <CD1EEEE7425B440B9F63D51C86D13C78@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru>
	<1360906547.415180643@f43.mail.ru>
	<600D8229CE3C4F3F8CAAA5879E471996@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<1360961020.775421656@f212.mail.ru>
	<40A5396B8EA649D89085F442177954F9@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<748FF943C2F14EAA87792691878DF1B9@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<CD1EEEE7425B440B9F63D51C86D13C78@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <D08DE5C8-F696-475D-B7A2-155F5961F4A9@phulse.com>

I wouldn't trust a compromised system as far as I can try it, even if I did try to remove the malware. The bad guys are far more advanced than we are. Format and reinstall is usually the quicker and best option.

- Hans


On 2013-02-16, at 10:55 AM, "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:

> Hi All:
> 
> Many people depend on their various security software packages to detect and
> destroy all threats. When a user has done something really stupid and a
> piece of malware has secured itself within their OS what steps do you take
> to remove it? 
> 
> Over the years I would suspect that you, techs have done much of this type
> work already but here is a concise little article on the step by step
> removal and recovery process.
> 
> http://blogs.technet.com/b/markrussinovich/archive/2013/01/07/3543763.aspx
> 
> Hope this helps someone.
> Jim 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Sat Feb 16 15:56:57 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2013 01:56:57 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech]
 =?utf-8?q?FYI=3A_Moving_to_=22nirvana=22=3A_if_Microso?=
 =?utf-8?q?ft_were_to_shift_to_WebKit=2C_you_can_thank_Opera=2E?=
In-Reply-To: <36E6D7031444415490E1B2797FAD69AF@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru>
	<1361040757.701792181@f159.mail.ru>
	<36E6D7031444415490E1B2797FAD69AF@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <1361051817.669776523@f285.mail.ru>

 Hi Jim --

I'd quote first: 

"We grow through our ability to tolerate ambiguity, to hold opposites without succumbing to the tension of reducing one side to the other, and to understand ambivalence."

- from the article ( http://www.goertzel.org/dynapsyc/2002/FractalPsyche.htm ) I have recently referenced while commenting on another thread here.

I mean, for me web-, desktop- and native/mobile- applications are not orthogonal, mutually exclusive, or one app type being somehow superior to another to finally suppress/reduce/minimize the other type of applications population/popularity - let's say 80-90% of that ?(web-, desktop- and native/mobile-) apps functionality could be executing IMO (and not only IMO) not in FE devices' memory but anywhere else- and that "anywhere else" could be remote servers' utilities/services, "clouds" tasks/jobs/services/distributed workflows, "ordinary" web servers and/or web services, even shared customers front-end devices...

Main subject application types differentiated by their front-end - UI part:

- web-app - UI in browser running on desktop or mobile OSes or on OS-browsers as Google Chromium, Fox OS, ...;
- desktop-app - UI within desktop application/executable, implemented using desktop's OS native UI tools/controls, e.g. for MS Windows/.NET that could be MFC, WinForms, WPF, Silverlight, WinRT (Metro)...;
- mobile-app - UI within mobile application/executable, implemented using mobile OS native UI tools/controls.

Notes: 

(a) desktop- and mobile- apps might have browser control as part of their UI but that browser control is usually used for secondary functionality;
(b) UI used in broad sense here - as UX -? http://uxdesign.com/ux-defined

I'd expect we can get into agreement on the above quote, statements and definitions with only one exception:

- AFAIU (please correct me if I'm wrong) - you expect that "browser will be the host of the UI(UX) of 99% of the future business applications";
- I argue that "browser as UI(UX) host" will not dominate in the future - mobile native apps could dominate or share the business application market with "browser as UX host", mobile and desktop apps.

I can live peacefully with that "exception/disagreement left unprocessed/unresolved" - the future will judge.

Thank you.

-- Shamil

???????, 16 ??????? 2013, 12:19 -08:00 ?? "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca>:
>Hi Shamil:
>
>Well, I will explain my observations and why I have come to those
>conclusions.
>
>When still working in the business, most of my clients were franchise type
>businesses and of course banks. Even though all the store and bank clerks
>had desktops, their working apps were slowly (quickly) being moved into
>browser based desktops. The station was still required but the main
>application were run on a browser. 
>
>This trend was done for a number of reasons; hardware and OS was no longer a
>major consideration, site issues are less relevant, no need for station
>version control, central data management and application development,
>pricing and option changes availability in real time, no station or server
>licensing and that is just a few of the reasons.
>
>Just like a desktop-installed and run application, a browser based
>application can virtually look and run anything you can imagine. Far from
>Unisex, it is the new artist palette of the present and future. To that end,
>all the new jobs require modern tech-developers to be very knowledgeable in
>front end development, HTML, JavaScript and CSS, competent a number web
>languages, from ASP.Net to Ruby, website design (maybe a bit of graphic
>design), web server and database structure and finally the ability to learn
>fast.
>
>Today, programmers in the web development field are part of one of the
>fastest growing industry in the world. Over fifty percent of developers
>develop for the internet/browsers and that number is growing ever year.
>There is still a need for developers to support legacy applications but that
>is hardly a growth market and even many of the older applications being
>supported will be migrating to the browser, in the near future.
>
>Below is a link to an article discussing the modern developer and the
>associated incentives.
>
>http://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/web-developer
>
>OTOH, legacy applications will still be around for a while and we will still
>be needed to support them but our daughters, sons and other younger family
>members, if they go into the business, will not be working on many if any
>desktop applications. Times are changing.
>
>Jim
<<< skipped >>>
>

From accessd at shaw.ca  Sat Feb 16 16:09:32 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2013 14:09:32 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] How to remove Malware
In-Reply-To: <D08DE5C8-F696-475D-B7A2-155F5961F4A9@phulse.com>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru><1360906547.415180643@f43.mail.ru><600D8229CE3C4F3F8CAAA5879E471996@creativesystemdesigns.com><1360961020.775421656@f212.mail.ru><40A5396B8EA649D89085F442177954F9@creativesystemdesigns.com><748FF943C2F14EAA87792691878DF1B9@creativesystemdesigns.com><CD1EEEE7425B440B9F63D51C86D13C78@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<D08DE5C8-F696-475D-B7A2-155F5961F4A9@phulse.com>
Message-ID: <B964B5B7F15B41B494E7E934D95C305C@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Hans:

Ha ha... Never avoid a challenge. ;-)

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian
Andersen
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 1:32 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] How to remove Malware

I wouldn't trust a compromised system as far as I can try it, even if I did
try to remove the malware. The bad guys are far more advanced than we are.
Format and reinstall is usually the quicker and best option.

- Hans


On 2013-02-16, at 10:55 AM, "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:

> Hi All:
> 
> Many people depend on their various security software packages to detect
and
> destroy all threats. When a user has done something really stupid and a
> piece of malware has secured itself within their OS what steps do you take
> to remove it? 
> 
> Over the years I would suspect that you, techs have done much of this type
> work already but here is a concise little article on the step by step
> removal and recovery process.
> 
> http://blogs.technet.com/b/markrussinovich/archive/2013/01/07/3543763.aspx
> 
> Hope this helps someone.
> Jim 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From john at winhaven.net  Sat Feb 16 18:02:51 2013
From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow)
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2013 18:02:51 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] How to remove Malware
In-Reply-To: <D08DE5C8-F696-475D-B7A2-155F5961F4A9@phulse.com>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru>	<1360906547.415180643@f43.mail.ru>	<600D8229CE3C4F3F8CAAA5879E471996@creativesystemdesigns.com>	<1360961020.775421656@f212.mail.ru>	<40A5396B8EA649D89085F442177954F9@creativesystemdesigns.com>	<748FF943C2F14EAA87792691878DF1B9@creativesystemdesigns.com>	<CD1EEEE7425B440B9F63D51C86D13C78@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<D08DE5C8-F696-475D-B7A2-155F5961F4A9@phulse.com>
Message-ID: <00f101ce0ca2$20feae40$62fc0ac0$@winhaven.net>

Let's just throw our arms and the air and give up! Wow, not really buying
into that paranoia.

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian
Andersen
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 3:32 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] How to remove Malware

I wouldn't trust a compromised system as far as I can try it, even if I did
try to remove the malware. The bad guys are far more advanced than we are.
Format and reinstall is usually the quicker and best option.

- Hans


On 2013-02-16, at 10:55 AM, "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:

> Hi All:
> 
> Many people depend on their various security software packages to 
> detect and destroy all threats. When a user has done something really 
> stupid and a piece of malware has secured itself within their OS what 
> steps do you take to remove it?
> 
> Over the years I would suspect that you, techs have done much of this 
> type work already but here is a concise little article on the step by 
> step removal and recovery process.
> 
> http://blogs.technet.com/b/markrussinovich/archive/2013/01/07/3543763.
> aspx
> 
> Hope this helps someone.
> Jim
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From hans.andersen at phulse.com  Sat Feb 16 18:21:00 2013
From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen)
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2013 16:21:00 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] How to remove Malware
In-Reply-To: <00f101ce0ca2$20feae40$62fc0ac0$@winhaven.net>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru>	<1360906547.415180643@f43.mail.ru>	<600D8229CE3C4F3F8CAAA5879E471996@creativesystemdesigns.com>	<1360961020.775421656@f212.mail.ru>	<40A5396B8EA649D89085F442177954F9@creativesystemdesigns.com>	<748FF943C2F14EAA87792691878DF1B9@creativesystemdesigns.com>	<CD1EEEE7425B440B9F63D51C86D13C78@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<D08DE5C8-F696-475D-B7A2-155F5961F4A9@phulse.com>
	<00f101ce0ca2$20feae40$62fc0ac0$@winhaven.net>
Message-ID: <F46CAA6D-68D5-481E-84B3-961B2FD33D35@phulse.com>

What part of what I said was paranoid? Rootkits are oldhat by now and cyber attacks are so sophisticated that it can be customised to target a specific facility half way across the world that isn't even connected to the internet (aka. sneakernet)... and you call it paranoid? Do you follow security news? :p

- Hans



On 2013-02-16, at 4:02 PM, "John Bartow" <john at winhaven.net> wrote:

> Let's just throw our arms and the air and give up! Wow, not really buying
> into that paranoia.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian
> Andersen
> Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 3:32 PM
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] How to remove Malware
> 
> I wouldn't trust a compromised system as far as I can try it, even if I did
> try to remove the malware. The bad guys are far more advanced than we are.
> Format and reinstall is usually the quicker and best option.
> 
> - Hans
> 
> 
> On 2013-02-16, at 10:55 AM, "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:
> 
>> Hi All:
>> 
>> Many people depend on their various security software packages to 
>> detect and destroy all threats. When a user has done something really 
>> stupid and a piece of malware has secured itself within their OS what 
>> steps do you take to remove it?
>> 
>> Over the years I would suspect that you, techs have done much of this 
>> type work already but here is a concise little article on the step by 
>> step removal and recovery process.
>> 
>> http://blogs.technet.com/b/markrussinovich/archive/2013/01/07/3543763.
>> aspx
>> 
>> Hope this helps someone.
>> Jim
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> dba-Tech mailing list
>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From accessd at shaw.ca  Sat Feb 16 20:04:58 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2013 18:04:58 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] How to remove Malware
In-Reply-To: <F46CAA6D-68D5-481E-84B3-961B2FD33D35@phulse.com>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru>	<1360906547.415180643@f43.mail.ru>	<600D8229CE3C4F3F8CAAA5879E471996@creativesystemdesigns.com>	<1360961020.775421656@f212.mail.ru>	<40A5396B8EA649D89085F442177954F9@creativesystemdesigns.com>	<748FF943C2F14EAA87792691878DF1B9@creativesystemdesigns.com>	<CD1EEEE7425B440B9F63D51C86D13C78@creativesystemdesigns.com><D08DE5C8-F696-475D-B7A2-155F5961F4A9@phulse.com><00f101ce0ca2$20feae40$62fc0ac0$@winhaven.net>
	<F46CAA6D-68D5-481E-84B3-961B2FD33D35@phulse.com>
Message-ID: <F711C1A1E54849F4A0F181E1CB5EB7C9@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Hans:

This may be true but how many serious hackers or government agencies are
going to target some old aunt or small business? The type of hacker alluded
to in the article are bottom feeders...penny-anti type crooks.

They may know all the registry hacks, boot-up run-time scripts and maybe a
SMTP call or two that is it. It would not take long for any tech, in the
business, to see what level of infection the client has been injured with
and be able to decide on the appropriate exorcism. 

Rest assured ninety-nine percent of malware falls within the nuisance
category...easy for most techs to remove.

That one percent left that might require a re-image. I doubt whether most
techs have even seen the type of major attacks and system corruption you are
describing. Real attackers make it their business not to be discovered. 

Jim     

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian
Andersen
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 4:21 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] How to remove Malware

What part of what I said was paranoid? Rootkits are oldhat by now and cyber
attacks are so sophisticated that it can be customised to target a specific
facility half way across the world that isn't even connected to the internet
(aka. sneakernet)... and you call it paranoid? Do you follow security news?
:p

- Hans



On 2013-02-16, at 4:02 PM, "John Bartow" <john at winhaven.net> wrote:

> Let's just throw our arms and the air and give up! Wow, not really buying
> into that paranoia.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian
> Andersen
> Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 3:32 PM
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] How to remove Malware
> 
> I wouldn't trust a compromised system as far as I can try it, even if I
did
> try to remove the malware. The bad guys are far more advanced than we are.
> Format and reinstall is usually the quicker and best option.
> 
> - Hans
> 
> 
> On 2013-02-16, at 10:55 AM, "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:
> 
>> Hi All:
>> 
>> Many people depend on their various security software packages to 
>> detect and destroy all threats. When a user has done something really 
>> stupid and a piece of malware has secured itself within their OS what 
>> steps do you take to remove it?
>> 
>> Over the years I would suspect that you, techs have done much of this 
>> type work already but here is a concise little article on the step by 
>> step removal and recovery process.
>> 
>> http://blogs.technet.com/b/markrussinovich/archive/2013/01/07/3543763.
>> aspx
>> 
>> Hope this helps someone.
>> Jim
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> dba-Tech mailing list
>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From accessd at shaw.ca  Sat Feb 16 20:26:26 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2013 18:26:26 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] FYI: Moving to "nirvana": if Microsoft were to shift
	to WebKit, you can thank Opera.
In-Reply-To: <1361051817.669776523@f285.mail.ru>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru><1361040757.701792181@f159.mail.ru><36E6D7031444415490E1B2797FAD69AF@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<1361051817.669776523@f285.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <BE5CBE6EEE2C48379BAAC1B3CB6BC92C@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Shamil:

I am not judging your opinions I am just noting the trends.

Browser penetration will never be ninety nine percent of the market but it
will be the majority of it. Of that I have no doubt.

OTOH there will still be a many small niche markets available and these will
be there for sometime. If you are doing well in a particular discipline
there is really no reason to abandoned it...in fact some of the less
competitive business areas might be more stable and profitable. 

In fact...I make money from a market so small that in the event of my real
retirement, the companies I service would be in a serious position...there
is probably not a dozen specialized techs like me in the country. I fully
plan to move all of the clients to a more standard platform before I take
that year long holiday. ;-)

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov
Shamil
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 1:57 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] FYI: Moving to "nirvana": if Microsoft were to shift
to WebKit, you can thank Opera.

 Hi Jim --

I'd quote first: 

"We grow through our ability to tolerate ambiguity, to hold opposites
without succumbing to the tension of reducing one side to the other, and to
understand ambivalence."

- from the article ( http://www.goertzel.org/dynapsyc/2002/FractalPsyche.htm
) I have recently referenced while commenting on another thread here.

I mean, for me web-, desktop- and native/mobile- applications are not
orthogonal, mutually exclusive, or one app type being somehow superior to
another to finally suppress/reduce/minimize the other type of applications
population/popularity - let's say 80-90% of that ?(web-, desktop- and
native/mobile-) apps functionality could be executing IMO (and not only IMO)
not in FE devices' memory but anywhere else- and that "anywhere else" could
be remote servers' utilities/services, "clouds"
tasks/jobs/services/distributed workflows, "ordinary" web servers and/or web
services, even shared customers front-end devices...

Main subject application types differentiated by their front-end - UI part:

- web-app - UI in browser running on desktop or mobile OSes or on
OS-browsers as Google Chromium, Fox OS, ...;
- desktop-app - UI within desktop application/executable, implemented using
desktop's OS native UI tools/controls, e.g. for MS Windows/.NET that could
be MFC, WinForms, WPF, Silverlight, WinRT (Metro)...;
- mobile-app - UI within mobile application/executable, implemented using
mobile OS native UI tools/controls.

Notes: 

(a) desktop- and mobile- apps might have browser control as part of their UI
but that browser control is usually used for secondary functionality;
(b) UI used in broad sense here - as UX -? http://uxdesign.com/ux-defined

I'd expect we can get into agreement on the above quote, statements and
definitions with only one exception:

- AFAIU (please correct me if I'm wrong) - you expect that "browser will be
the host of the UI(UX) of 99% of the future business applications";
- I argue that "browser as UI(UX) host" will not dominate in the future -
mobile native apps could dominate or share the business application market
with "browser as UX host", mobile and desktop apps.

I can live peacefully with that "exception/disagreement left
unprocessed/unresolved" - the future will judge.

Thank you.

-- Shamil

???????, 16 ??????? 2013, 12:19 -08:00 ?? "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca>:
>Hi Shamil:
>
>Well, I will explain my observations and why I have come to those
>conclusions.
>
>When still working in the business, most of my clients were franchise type
>businesses and of course banks. Even though all the store and bank clerks
>had desktops, their working apps were slowly (quickly) being moved into
>browser based desktops. The station was still required but the main
>application were run on a browser. 
>
>This trend was done for a number of reasons; hardware and OS was no longer
a
>major consideration, site issues are less relevant, no need for station
>version control, central data management and application development,
>pricing and option changes availability in real time, no station or server
>licensing and that is just a few of the reasons.
>
>Just like a desktop-installed and run application, a browser based
>application can virtually look and run anything you can imagine. Far from
>Unisex, it is the new artist palette of the present and future. To that
end,
>all the new jobs require modern tech-developers to be very knowledgeable in
>front end development, HTML, JavaScript and CSS, competent a number web
>languages, from ASP.Net to Ruby, website design (maybe a bit of graphic
>design), web server and database structure and finally the ability to learn
>fast.
>
>Today, programmers in the web development field are part of one of the
>fastest growing industry in the world. Over fifty percent of developers
>develop for the internet/browsers and that number is growing ever year.
>There is still a need for developers to support legacy applications but
that
>is hardly a growth market and even many of the older applications being
>supported will be migrating to the browser, in the near future.
>
>Below is a link to an article discussing the modern developer and the
>associated incentives.
>
>http://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/web-developer
>
>OTOH, legacy applications will still be around for a while and we will
still
>be needed to support them but our daughters, sons and other younger family
>members, if they go into the business, will not be working on many if any
>desktop applications. Times are changing.
>
>Jim
<<< skipped >>>
>
_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From hans.andersen at phulse.com  Sun Feb 17 00:36:20 2013
From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen)
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2013 22:36:20 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] How to remove Malware
In-Reply-To: <F711C1A1E54849F4A0F181E1CB5EB7C9@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru>	<1360906547.415180643@f43.mail.ru>	<600D8229CE3C4F3F8CAAA5879E471996@creativesystemdesigns.com>	<1360961020.775421656@f212.mail.ru>	<40A5396B8EA649D89085F442177954F9@creativesystemdesigns.com>	<748FF943C2F14EAA87792691878DF1B9@creativesystemdesigns.com>	<CD1EEEE7425B440B9F63D51C86D13C78@creativesystemdesigns.com><D08DE5C8-F696-475D-B7A2-155F5961F4A9@phulse.com><00f101ce0ca2$20feae40$62fc0ac0$@winhaven.net>
	<F46CAA6D-68D5-481E-84B3-961B2FD33D35@phulse.com>
	<F711C1A1E54849F4A0F181E1CB5EB7C9@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <08D42B48-CC0D-4CDA-8C5A-A954777A5B89@phulse.com>

With all the many exploits we hear every month with Java and Flash, it doesn't take a serious hacker or government agency to pown a machine (or many thousands). And, since the tools exists out there to achieve this, we have to assume that serious hackers bundle these up into toolkits for sale to anyone who sees a profit motive... unfortunately, this is how the black market for hackers works, take it or leave it.

Old aunt or small business may not be billionaires, but a hacker can still make a nice profit off of them. In fact, its probably easier for them to make a better profit, since they are less likely to notice a little bit of money missing here and there, since they can't afford a team of financial experts to handle their money.

- Hans



On 2013-02-16, at 6:04 PM, "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:

> Hi Hans:
> 
> This may be true but how many serious hackers or government agencies are
> going to target some old aunt or small business? The type of hacker alluded
> to in the article are bottom feeders...penny-anti type crooks.
> 
> They may know all the registry hacks, boot-up run-time scripts and maybe a
> SMTP call or two that is it. It would not take long for any tech, in the
> business, to see what level of infection the client has been injured with
> and be able to decide on the appropriate exorcism. 
> 
> Rest assured ninety-nine percent of malware falls within the nuisance
> category...easy for most techs to remove.
> 
> That one percent left that might require a re-image. I doubt whether most
> techs have even seen the type of major attacks and system corruption you are
> describing. Real attackers make it their business not to be discovered. 
> 
> Jim     
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian
> Andersen
> Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 4:21 PM
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] How to remove Malware
> 
> What part of what I said was paranoid? Rootkits are oldhat by now and cyber
> attacks are so sophisticated that it can be customised to target a specific
> facility half way across the world that isn't even connected to the internet
> (aka. sneakernet)... and you call it paranoid? Do you follow security news?
> :p
> 
> - Hans
> 
> 
> 
> On 2013-02-16, at 4:02 PM, "John Bartow" <john at winhaven.net> wrote:
> 
>> Let's just throw our arms and the air and give up! Wow, not really buying
>> into that paranoia.
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian
>> Andersen
>> Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 3:32 PM
>> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] How to remove Malware
>> 
>> I wouldn't trust a compromised system as far as I can try it, even if I
> did
>> try to remove the malware. The bad guys are far more advanced than we are.
>> Format and reinstall is usually the quicker and best option.
>> 
>> - Hans
>> 
>> 
>> On 2013-02-16, at 10:55 AM, "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi All:
>>> 
>>> Many people depend on their various security software packages to 
>>> detect and destroy all threats. When a user has done something really 
>>> stupid and a piece of malware has secured itself within their OS what 
>>> steps do you take to remove it?
>>> 
>>> Over the years I would suspect that you, techs have done much of this 
>>> type work already but here is a concise little article on the step by 
>>> step removal and recovery process.
>>> 
>>> http://blogs.technet.com/b/markrussinovich/archive/2013/01/07/3543763.
>>> aspx
>>> 
>>> Hope this helps someone.
>>> Jim
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> dba-Tech mailing list
>>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> dba-Tech mailing list
>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> dba-Tech mailing list
>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From Gustav at cactus.dk  Sun Feb 17 03:42:52 2013
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2013 10:42:52 +0100
Subject: [dba-Tech] How to remove Malware
Message-ID: <s120b440.005@cactus.dk>

Hi John

Right, I haven't seen a machine yet that wasn't cleanable by combined use of TrojanHunter, AntiMalwarebytes, CrapCleaner, and the like. But once it took most of a day at a client where they had been browsing for all sorts of video stuff on doubtful sites - and no antivirus.

Contrary to the article, I've found that no single "method" is valid. Machines and infections are just too different. Your best method is experience and intuition and patience combined. Your first milestone is to stop the malware from reinstalling itself, which often is a challenge. From that point it is quite easy.

But the twist is, that often this sport doesn't pay off. Reinstall takes a given and certain amount of time with the added bonus that the machine is cleaned from other things as well.

/gustav

>>> john at winhaven.net 17-02-13 1:02 >>>
Let's just throw our arms and the air and give up! Wow, not really buying into that paranoia.

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian
Andersen
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 3:32 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] How to remove Malware

I wouldn't trust a compromised system as far as I can try it, even if I did try to remove the malware. The bad guys are far more advanced than we are. Format and reinstall is usually the quicker and best option.

- Hans


On 2013-02-16, at 10:55 AM, "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:

> Hi All:
> 
> Many people depend on their various security software packages to 
> detect and destroy all threats. When a user has done something really 
> stupid and a piece of malware has secured itself within their OS what 
> steps do you take to remove it?
> 
> Over the years I would suspect that you, techs have done much of this 
> type work already but here is a concise little article on the step by 
> step removal and recovery process.
> 
> http://blogs.technet.com/b/markrussinovich/archive/2013/01/07/3543763.aspx
> 
> Hope this helps someone.
> Jim


From fuller.artful at gmail.com  Sun Feb 17 09:01:55 2013
From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller)
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2013 10:01:55 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] OT: Another Linguistic Joke
Message-ID: <CAEPJO1joVP0BUnuTAz=xP_s=Xt0q-BWDKADVoX3pc3C9qaD04Q@mail.gmail.com>

Canadian Teacher: "Class, what's the difference between a buffalo and a
bison?"

Australian foreign student: "A buffalo is a large animal that runs the
plains in herds. A bison is where you wash your hands."

-- 
Arthur

From andy at minstersystems.co.uk  Sun Feb 17 12:45:05 2013
From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey)
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2013 18:45:05 -0000
Subject: [dba-Tech] OT: Another Linguistic Joke
In-Reply-To: <CAEPJO1joVP0BUnuTAz=xP_s=Xt0q-BWDKADVoX3pc3C9qaD04Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CBCFD653FD1148BB805774F20D47987D@MINSTER>

The same joke's told in the UK substituting a Brummie (native of Birmingham
- the English one) for the Aussie. Not that the wretched Brummie accent (I'm
allowed to say that because I'm a Brummie myself) has much in common with
the Aussie one other than in making this joke work. I love this quote on the
Brummie accent on Wikipedia

"A study was conducted in 2008 where people were asked to grade the
intelligence of a person based on their accent and the Brummie accent was
ranked as the least intelligent accent. It even scored lower than being
silent, an example of the stereotype attached to the Brummie accent."

ROTFL. I love the fact that speaking Brummie rates as sounding less
intelligent than not speaking at all. I'd better try being quiet more often.
This would definitely be true of some of my family members (ssshhh, don't
tell them). Speaking Brummie was in the national news recently when the
Birmingham City Council introduced a voice-activated phone system for
members of the local public to get information or be put through to the
appropriate department. It was quickly taken down again because it couldn't
recognise what 95% of callers were saying. If you're wondering what it
sounds like (and you've never heard Ozzy Osbourne speak) this is pretty good
http://www.ibrummie.com/audio/audio1.html

Andy




-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller
Sent: 17 February 2013 15:02
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: [dba-Tech] OT: Another Linguistic Joke


Canadian Teacher: "Class, what's the difference between a buffalo and a
bison?"

Australian foreign student: "A buffalo is a large animal that runs the
plains in herds. A bison is where you wash your hands."

--
Arthur
_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com 



From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Sun Feb 17 12:59:41 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2013 22:59:41 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech]
 =?utf-8?q?FYI=3A_Moving_to_=22nirvana=22=3A_if_Microso?=
 =?utf-8?q?ft_were_to_shift_to_WebKit=2C_you_can_thank_Opera=2E?=
In-Reply-To: <BE5CBE6EEE2C48379BAAC1B3CB6BC92C@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru>
	<1361051817.669776523@f285.mail.ru>
	<BE5CBE6EEE2C48379BAAC1B3CB6BC92C@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <1361127581.381773310@f370.mail.ru>

 Hi Jim --

OK, you say: "Browser based applications will be a majority in the future",?
and I say: "Mobile and desktop applications will be a majority in the future".
In both cases we're talking about UI/UX parts of applications with their server/cloud/web services/distributed workflows/... parts running outside of front-end devices.

Thank you.

-- Shamil


???????, 16 ??????? 2013, 18:26 -08:00 ?? "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca>:
>Hi Shamil:
>
>I am not judging your opinions I am just noting the trends.
>
>Browser penetration will never be ninety nine percent of the market but it
>will be the majority of it. Of that I have no doubt.
>
>OTOH there will still be a many small niche markets available and these will
>be there for sometime. If you are doing well in a particular discipline
>there is really no reason to abandoned it...in fact some of the less
>competitive business areas might be more stable and profitable. 
>
>In fact...I make money from a market so small that in the event of my real
>retirement, the companies I service would be in a serious position...there
>is probably not a dozen specialized techs like me in the country. I fully
>plan to move all of the clients to a more standard platform before I take
>that year long holiday. ;-)
>
>Jim
<<< skipped >>>
>

From accessd at shaw.ca  Sun Feb 17 14:31:50 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2013 12:31:50 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Node.js and IIS
In-Reply-To: <1361127581.381773310@f370.mail.ru>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru><1361051817.669776523@f285.mail.ru><BE5CBE6EEE2C48379BAAC1B3CB6BC92C@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<1361127581.381773310@f370.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <4EC5943C0C094C52A34929B264A3552C@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi All:

Here is an interesting article on Node.js versus ASP.Net. It installs
Node.js within an IIS framework, not it natural environment (a web server
within a webserver) and then it compares the performance results. Microsoft
has created an application call IISNode for just such a task. This is a test
performed by a Microsoft developer.     

http://rarcher.azurewebsites.net/Post/PostContent/19

Microsoft is fully supporting Node.js or Node and will have/has libraries,
powershells, JavaScript script for Node, an adapter like IISNode. IISNode
automatically extends Node to all the CPUs (Node defaults to only one) on
the server and Node give IIS multiple socket capabilities (IIS currently has
only single socket capability... These implementations will all be OSS.

http://www.tikalk.com/iisnode

Being able to leverage Nodes multi-socket capability will give IIS a huge
advantage. If applications and data sources are not within your immediate
network, in order to retrieve information your IIS listening post would have
to manage each source sequentially. If one source was not responding in a
timely manner the entire process could choke.

Having multiple sockets will allow you to fill a page with data from a
accounting database, a client list or even manage fail-over situations, all
at the same time. Examples: if you are monitoring multiple feeds from stock
tickers, remotely managing a number of pieces of hardware, just acquiring
tweets from tweeter as well as a number of different (types of) databases.

Right now browsers using webkit HTML5, have multi-socket capabilities but
this performance feature will be rendered useless if your host backend is
vanilla IIS 7 or less. The good news is the next releases of IIS will be
able to handle multiple sockets.

I will be installing a new IIS web server along with Node on it but due to
prior commitments that process can not be attempted until later in March. As
soon as the new server is up and running I will post any issues and methods.

Jim 


From hans.andersen at phulse.com  Sun Feb 17 15:22:34 2013
From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen)
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2013 13:22:34 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] FYI: Moving to "nirvana": if Microsoft were to shift
	to WebKit, you can thank Opera.
In-Reply-To: <1360841177.262664090@f270.mail.ru>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru>
	<1360834360.258085691@f344.mail.ru>
	<EB9CFF5F-2D68-4BB2-B822-FF8E59899EA6@phulse.com>
	<1360841177.262664090@f270.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <B8C73977-AE44-4646-B0B9-150E2602B633@phulse.com>

Hi Shamil,

I am not the least bit concerned about testing suites like Selenium. They have to maintain their own web driver for multiple browsers anyhow, so there is no reason they can't port their web driver from Chrome/Safari across, since they are also WebKit browsers.

It seems you are also suggesting that some businesses outside automated test suites have been using this feature for scraping and what not. My first impression is that this was a bad decision. There are far better tools for doing said job (ie. curl) which are just as simple to use. But, even so, I find the concept that such a small subset of users should be able to hold back the progress of technology, especially in an area where interoperability and standards are important. And I can't imagine that Microsoft should care. If they really can't provide a compatibility layer, then they should just fork IE into two versions: IE and IE Classic and let the dinosaurs continue using the old version. After all, it seems MS is already killing extensions like ActiveX in IE 10 (http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ie/hh920753(v=vs.85).aspx).

Smart move. Now they just need to upgrade to WebKit.

- Hans


On 2013-02-14, at 3:26 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil <mcp2004 at mail.ru> wrote:

> Hi Hans --
> 
> <<<
> This is interesting. Could you possibly provide a few examples of where it is used in a manner that is important in some way?
>>>> 
> To Automate web applications testing:  http://watin.org/documentation/  ( http://www.screencast-o-matic.com/watch/cXeloE2gh )
> 
> To Automate repetitive tasks when web browsing is a part of a larger desktop application, e.g.
> 
> " Efficient data entry through browser automation"
> 
> http://www.codeproject.com/Articles/338036/BrowserAutomationCrawler
> 
> " Microsoft Web Browser Automation using C#"
> 
> http://www.codeproject.com/Articles/5452/Microsoft-Web-Browser-Automation-using-C
> 
> The above is just a generic example - for that case Google API can be used of course but there could be many other cases when there is no any web API and (as I noted above) web browsing functionality is a part of a larger desktop application.
> 
> In the past (no web services/no web APIs) Microsoft Web Browser Automation was used in (VB6/VBA) apps for web crawling/scraping....
> 
> To see more examples browse:  http://www.codeproject.com/search.aspx?q=web+browser+automation&x=0&y=0&sbo=kw&pgnum=5
> 
> or google by "microsoft web browser automation".
> 
> -- Shamil
> 
> P.S. I guess Microsoft Web Browser Automation is also used in Selenium ( http://docs.seleniumhq.org/docs/index.jsp ) for IE testing automation...
> 
> ???????, 14 ??????? 2013, 1:36 -08:00 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen <hans.andersen at phulse.com>:
>> 
>>> AFAIK Web Browser Automation is widely used.
>> 
>> This is interesting. Could you possibly provide a few examples of where it is used in a manner that is important in some way?
>> 
>> - Hans
>> 
>> 
>> On 2013-02-14, at 1:32 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil < mcp2004 at mail.ru > wrote:
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> dba-Tech mailing list
>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>> Website:  http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From hans.andersen at phulse.com  Sun Feb 17 17:53:05 2013
From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen)
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2013 15:53:05 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Node.js and IIS
In-Reply-To: <4EC5943C0C094C52A34929B264A3552C@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru>
	<1361051817.669776523@f285.mail.ru>
	<BE5CBE6EEE2C48379BAAC1B3CB6BC92C@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<1361127581.381773310@f370.mail.ru>
	<4EC5943C0C094C52A34929B264A3552C@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <524783D3-4D62-47C3-825C-DA68CAD435EA@phulse.com>

Cool. I wonder how it compares to Node.js running behind Nginx?

- Hans


On 2013-02-17, at 12:31 PM, "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:

> Hi All:
> 
> Here is an interesting article on Node.js versus ASP.Net. It installs
> Node.js within an IIS framework, not it natural environment (a web server
> within a webserver) and then it compares the performance results. Microsoft
> has created an application call IISNode for just such a task. This is a test
> performed by a Microsoft developer.     
> 
> http://rarcher.azurewebsites.net/Post/PostContent/19
> 
> Microsoft is fully supporting Node.js or Node and will have/has libraries,
> powershells, JavaScript script for Node, an adapter like IISNode. IISNode
> automatically extends Node to all the CPUs (Node defaults to only one) on
> the server and Node give IIS multiple socket capabilities (IIS currently has
> only single socket capability... These implementations will all be OSS.
> 
> http://www.tikalk.com/iisnode
> 
> Being able to leverage Nodes multi-socket capability will give IIS a huge
> advantage. If applications and data sources are not within your immediate
> network, in order to retrieve information your IIS listening post would have
> to manage each source sequentially. If one source was not responding in a
> timely manner the entire process could choke.
> 
> Having multiple sockets will allow you to fill a page with data from a
> accounting database, a client list or even manage fail-over situations, all
> at the same time. Examples: if you are monitoring multiple feeds from stock
> tickers, remotely managing a number of pieces of hardware, just acquiring
> tweets from tweeter as well as a number of different (types of) databases.
> 
> Right now browsers using webkit HTML5, have multi-socket capabilities but
> this performance feature will be rendered useless if your host backend is
> vanilla IIS 7 or less. The good news is the next releases of IIS will be
> able to handle multiple sockets.
> 
> I will be installing a new IIS web server along with Node on it but due to
> prior commitments that process can not be attempted until later in March. As
> soon as the new server is up and running I will post any issues and methods.
> 
> Jim 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From fuller.artful at gmail.com  Sun Feb 17 18:24:01 2013
From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller)
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2013 19:24:01 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] OT: Another Linguistic Joke
In-Reply-To: <CBCFD653FD1148BB805774F20D47987D@MINSTER>
References: <CAEPJO1joVP0BUnuTAz=xP_s=Xt0q-BWDKADVoX3pc3C9qaD04Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CBCFD653FD1148BB805774F20D47987D@MINSTER>
Message-ID: <CAEPJO1hkeBQGgpmOGrpeHLM7eNv6bLgZ9wC5wQeZ23QT3=J4dQ@mail.gmail.com>

I've got to forward this to my sister, who lives in B'ham. I don't know how
much Brummie she's adopted (she was born and raised here in Canada, and
moved there about 15 years ago; when she returns here she flips back to her
Canadian accent). She'll get a kick out of the wikipedia quote.

A.

From accessd at shaw.ca  Sun Feb 17 20:06:50 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2013 18:06:50 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] FYI: Moving to "nirvana": if Microsoft were to shift
	to WebKit, you can thank Opera.
In-Reply-To: <1361127581.381773310@f370.mail.ru>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru><1361051817.669776523@f285.mail.ru><BE5CBE6EEE2C48379BAAC1B3CB6BC92C@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<1361127581.381773310@f370.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <27EC74E207324BCDB348FD8CA9C81925@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Shamil:

Here is a thoughtful discussion on HTML based applications versus native
applications:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/ciocentral/2013/01/23/html5-vs-native-mobile-app
s-myths-and-misconceptions/

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov
Shamil
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 11:00 AM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] FYI: Moving to "nirvana": if Microsoft were to shift
to WebKit, you can thank Opera.

 Hi Jim --

OK, you say: "Browser based applications will be a majority in the future",?
and I say: "Mobile and desktop applications will be a majority in the
future".
In both cases we're talking about UI/UX parts of applications with their
server/cloud/web services/distributed workflows/... parts running outside of
front-end devices.

Thank you.

-- Shamil


???????, 16 ??????? 2013, 18:26 -08:00 ?? "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca>:
>Hi Shamil:
>
>I am not judging your opinions I am just noting the trends.
>
>Browser penetration will never be ninety nine percent of the market but it
>will be the majority of it. Of that I have no doubt.
>
>OTOH there will still be a many small niche markets available and these
will
>be there for sometime. If you are doing well in a particular discipline
>there is really no reason to abandoned it...in fact some of the less
>competitive business areas might be more stable and profitable. 
>
>In fact...I make money from a market so small that in the event of my real
>retirement, the companies I service would be in a serious position...there
>is probably not a dozen specialized techs like me in the country. I fully
>plan to move all of the clients to a more standard platform before I take
>that year long holiday. ;-)
>
>Jim
<<< skipped >>>
>
_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From accessd at shaw.ca  Sun Feb 17 20:10:13 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2013 18:10:13 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Node.js and IIS
In-Reply-To: <524783D3-4D62-47C3-825C-DA68CAD435EA@phulse.com>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru><1361051817.669776523@f285.mail.ru><BE5CBE6EEE2C48379BAAC1B3CB6BC92C@creativesystemdesigns.com><1361127581.381773310@f370.mail.ru><4EC5943C0C094C52A34929B264A3552C@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<524783D3-4D62-47C3-825C-DA68CAD435EA@phulse.com>
Message-ID: <1AB15973B4DA428CA3119369FED00502@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Hans:

According to a graph displayed on a video from the Node.js website it shows
Node as performing faster...by a little bit but of course Node only serves
JavaScript.

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian
Andersen
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 3:53 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Node.js and IIS

Cool. I wonder how it compares to Node.js running behind Nginx?

- Hans


On 2013-02-17, at 12:31 PM, "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:

> Hi All:
> 
> Here is an interesting article on Node.js versus ASP.Net. It installs
> Node.js within an IIS framework, not it natural environment (a web server
> within a webserver) and then it compares the performance results.
Microsoft
> has created an application call IISNode for just such a task. This is a
test
> performed by a Microsoft developer.     
> 
> http://rarcher.azurewebsites.net/Post/PostContent/19
> 
> Microsoft is fully supporting Node.js or Node and will have/has libraries,
> powershells, JavaScript script for Node, an adapter like IISNode. IISNode
> automatically extends Node to all the CPUs (Node defaults to only one) on
> the server and Node give IIS multiple socket capabilities (IIS currently
has
> only single socket capability... These implementations will all be OSS.
> 
> http://www.tikalk.com/iisnode
> 
> Being able to leverage Nodes multi-socket capability will give IIS a huge
> advantage. If applications and data sources are not within your immediate
> network, in order to retrieve information your IIS listening post would
have
> to manage each source sequentially. If one source was not responding in a
> timely manner the entire process could choke.
> 
> Having multiple sockets will allow you to fill a page with data from a
> accounting database, a client list or even manage fail-over situations,
all
> at the same time. Examples: if you are monitoring multiple feeds from
stock
> tickers, remotely managing a number of pieces of hardware, just acquiring
> tweets from tweeter as well as a number of different (types of) databases.
> 
> Right now browsers using webkit HTML5, have multi-socket capabilities but
> this performance feature will be rendered useless if your host backend is
> vanilla IIS 7 or less. The good news is the next releases of IIS will be
> able to handle multiple sockets.
> 
> I will be installing a new IIS web server along with Node on it but due to
> prior commitments that process can not be attempted until later in March.
As
> soon as the new server is up and running I will post any issues and
methods.
> 
> Jim 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Mon Feb 18 02:17:11 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 12:17:11 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech]
 =?utf-8?q?FYI=3A_Moving_to_=22nirvana=22=3A_if_Microso?=
 =?utf-8?q?ft_were_to_shift_to_WebKit=2C_you_can_thank_Opera=2E?=
In-Reply-To: <B8C73977-AE44-4646-B0B9-150E2602B633@phulse.com>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru>
	<1360841177.262664090@f270.mail.ru>
	<B8C73977-AE44-4646-B0B9-150E2602B633@phulse.com>
Message-ID: <1361175431.595514460@f79.mail.ru>

 Hi Hans --

Thank you for your notes.

Does cURL or any other "automation" tools are able to handle web pages, which mainly use AJAX not web forms POSTs?

<<<
But, even so, I find the concept that such a small subset of users should be able to 
hold back the progress of technology, especially in an area where interoperability and standards are important.
>>>
What (tools/technologies) are currently holding back and is it good or bad to have WebKit "monoculture" - opinions differ:
"The Pros And Cons Of A WebKit Monoculture" ( http://techcrunch.com/2013/02/17/the-pros-and-cons-of-a-webkit-monoculture/ )

<<<
... then they should just fork IE into two versions: IE and IE Classic and let the dinosaurs continue using the old version...
>>>>
They could be busy doing that currently. BTW, have you even seen the sources of any large C/C++ COM projects? - from what I have seen/handled such projects are very tightly coupled with COM interfaces and other COM "technology artifacts and tricks" - so the process of decoupling could take quite some time, but MS engineers could definitely do that...

<<<
After all, it seems MS is already killing extensions like ActiveX in IE 10 ( http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ie/hh920753 (v=vs.85).aspx).
>>>
Yes, I see - that's done AFAIU to better conform to HTML5 standards. But IE Web Browser Automation is currently an integral part of IE components, not an?extension.

Thank you.

-- Shamil

???????????, 17 ??????? 2013, 13:22 -08:00 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen <hans.andersen at phulse.com>:
>Hi Shamil,
>
>I am not the least bit concerned about testing suites like Selenium. They have to maintain their own web driver for multiple browsers anyhow, so there is no reason they can't port their web driver from Chrome/Safari across, since they are also WebKit browsers.
>
>It seems you are also suggesting that some businesses outside automated test suites have been using this feature for scraping and what not. My first impression is that this was a bad decision. There are far better tools for doing said job (ie. curl) which are just as simple to use. But, even so, I find the concept that such a small subset of users should be able to hold back the progress of technology, especially in an area where interoperability and standards are important. And I can't imagine that Microsoft should care. If they really can't provide a compatibility layer, then they should just fork IE into two versions: IE and IE Classic and let the dinosaurs continue using the old version. After all, it seems MS is already killing extensions like ActiveX in IE 10 ( http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ie/hh920753 (v=vs.85).aspx).
>
>Smart move. Now they just need to upgrade to WebKit.
>
>- Hans
>
>
>On 2013-02-14, at 3:26 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil < mcp2004 at mail.ru > wrote:
>
>> Hi Hans --
>> 
>> <<<
>> This is interesting. Could you possibly provide a few examples of where it is used in a manner that is important in some way?
>>>>> 
>> To Automate web applications testing:  http://watin.org/documentation/ (  http://www.screencast-o-matic.com/watch/cXeloE2gh )
>> 
>> To Automate repetitive tasks when web browsing is a part of a larger desktop application, e.g.
>> 
>> " Efficient data entry through browser automation"
>> 
>>  http://www.codeproject.com/Articles/338036/BrowserAutomationCrawler
>> 
>> " Microsoft Web Browser Automation using C#"
>> 
>>  http://www.codeproject.com/Articles/5452/Microsoft-Web-Browser-Automation-using-C
>> 
>> The above is just a generic example - for that case Google API can be used of course but there could be many other cases when there is no any web API and (as I noted above) web browsing functionality is a part of a larger desktop application.
>> 
>> In the past (no web services/no web APIs) Microsoft Web Browser Automation was used in (VB6/VBA) apps for web crawling/scraping....
>> 
>> To see more examples browse:  http://www.codeproject.com/search.aspx?q=web+browser+automation&x=0&y=0&sbo=kw&pgnum=5
>> 
>> or google by "microsoft web browser automation".
>> 
>> -- Shamil
>> 
>> P.S. I guess Microsoft Web Browser Automation is also used in Selenium (  http://docs.seleniumhq.org/docs/index.jsp ) for IE testing automation...
>> 
>> ???????, 14 ??????? 2013, 1:36 -08:00 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen < hans.andersen at phulse.com >:
>>> 
>>>> AFAIK Web Browser Automation is widely used.
>>> 
>>> This is interesting. Could you possibly provide a few examples of where it is used in a manner that is important in some way?
>>> 
>>> - Hans
>>> 
>


From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Mon Feb 18 02:53:54 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 12:53:54 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech]
 =?utf-8?q?FYI=3A_Moving_to_=22nirvana=22=3A_if_Microso?=
 =?utf-8?q?ft_were_to_shift_to_WebKit=2C_you_can_thank_Opera=2E?=
In-Reply-To: <27EC74E207324BCDB348FD8CA9C81925@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru>
	<1361127581.381773310@f370.mail.ru>
	<27EC74E207324BCDB348FD8CA9C81925@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <1361177634.909397491@f335.mail.ru>

 Hi Jim --

That's a good article, thank you for the link. AFAIU it states that web apps (HTML5/CSS/Javascript) and hybrid apps will be the majority apps in the future. I'd still doubt they will - as IMO they will always be following some distance behind?"A Whole New World Of Mobile Markets: Cars, Photos, TVs, Wallets And More" (http://techcrunch.com/2013/02/16/which-markets-are-too-crowded-too-early-and-just-right/).

BTW, MS Web Browser Control Automation/DOM API interfaces represent an advanced option to develop hybrid apps.

Thank you.

-- Shamil

???????????, 17 ??????? 2013, 18:06 -08:00 ?? "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca>:
>Hi Shamil:
>
>Here is a thoughtful discussion on HTML based applications versus native
>applications:
>
>http://www.forbes.com/sites/ciocentral/2013/01/23/html5-vs-native-mobile-app
>s-myths-and-misconceptions/
>
>Jim
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From:  dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov
>Shamil
>Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 11:00 AM
>To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] FYI: Moving to "nirvana": if Microsoft were to shift
>to WebKit, you can thank Opera.
>
>?Hi Jim --
>
>OK, you say: "Browser based applications will be a majority in the future",?
>and I say: "Mobile and desktop applications will be a majority in the
>future".
>In both cases we're talking about UI/UX parts of applications with their
>server/cloud/web services/distributed workflows/... parts running outside of
>front-end devices.
>
>Thank you.
>
>-- Shamil
>
>
>???????, 16 ??????? 2013, 18:26 -08:00 ?? "Jim Lawrence" < accessd at shaw.ca >:
>>Hi Shamil:
>>
>>I am not judging your opinions I am just noting the trends.
>>
>>Browser penetration will never be ninety nine percent of the market but it
>>will be the majority of it. Of that I have no doubt.
>>
>>OTOH there will still be a many small niche markets available and these
>will
>>be there for sometime. If you are doing well in a particular discipline
>>there is really no reason to abandoned it...in fact some of the less
>>competitive business areas might be more stable and profitable. 
>>
>>In fact...I make money from a market so small that in the event of my real
>>retirement, the companies I service would be in a serious position...there
>>is probably not a dozen specialized techs like me in the country. I fully
>>plan to move all of the clients to a more standard platform before I take
>>that year long holiday. ;-)
>>
>>Jim
><<< skipped >>>
>>
>_______________________________________________
>dba-Tech mailing list
>dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>Website:  http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>dba-Tech mailing list
>dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>Website:  http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From hans.andersen at phulse.com  Mon Feb 18 03:04:16 2013
From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 01:04:16 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] FYI: Moving to "nirvana": if Microsoft were to shift
	to WebKit, you can thank Opera.
In-Reply-To: <1361175431.595514460@f79.mail.ru>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru>
	<1360841177.262664090@f270.mail.ru>
	<B8C73977-AE44-4646-B0B9-150E2602B633@phulse.com>
	<1361175431.595514460@f79.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <263F16F0-F404-40A0-827E-774568A10986@phulse.com>

> Does cURL or any other "automation" tools are able to handle web pages, which mainly use AJAX not web forms POSTs?

Yes

> What (tools/technologies) are currently holding back

Anything which is not cross browser and cross platform.

> and is it good or bad to have WebKit "monoculture"

I don't believe we should have a WebKit monoculture. I believe we should have a world free of IE's Trident engine. I'm completely fine with Mozilla Firefox continuing with their Gecko engine. Why not Trident? Because it runs only on Windows and is harmful to the web, due to Microsofts desktop dominance.

> so the process of decoupling could take quite some time, but MS engineers could definitely do that...

Otherwise known as trimming the fat. Everyone wins.

> Yes, I see - that's done AFAIU to better conform to HTML5 standards. But IE Web Browser Automation is currently an integral part of IE components, not an extension.

I don't know if it is. But Googling "IE 10 Web Browser Automation" doesn't return a lot of results to indicate that this is an important feature for many people anyhow.

- Hans


On 2013-02-18, at 12:17 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil <mcp2004 at mail.ru> wrote:

> Hi Hans --
> 
> Thank you for your notes.
> 
> Does cURL or any other "automation" tools are able to handle web pages, which mainly use AJAX not web forms POSTs?
> 
> <<<
> But, even so, I find the concept that such a small subset of users should be able to 
> hold back the progress of technology, especially in an area where interoperability and standards are important.
>>>> 
> What (tools/technologies) are currently holding back and is it good or bad to have WebKit "monoculture" - opinions differ:
> "The Pros And Cons Of A WebKit Monoculture" ( http://techcrunch.com/2013/02/17/the-pros-and-cons-of-a-webkit-monoculture/ )
> 
> <<<
> ... then they should just fork IE into two versions: IE and IE Classic and let the dinosaurs continue using the old version...
>>>>> 
> They could be busy doing that currently. BTW, have you even seen the sources of any large C/C++ COM projects? - from what I have seen/handled such projects are very tightly coupled with COM interfaces and other COM "technology artifacts and tricks" - so the process of decoupling could take quite some time, but MS engineers could definitely do that...
> 
> <<<
> After all, it seems MS is already killing extensions like ActiveX in IE 10 ( http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ie/hh920753 (v=vs.85).aspx).
>>>> 
> Yes, I see - that's done AFAIU to better conform to HTML5 standards. But IE Web Browser Automation is currently an integral part of IE components, not an extension.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> -- Shamil
> 
> ???????????, 17 ??????? 2013, 13:22 -08:00 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen <hans.andersen at phulse.com>:
>> Hi Shamil,
>> 
>> I am not the least bit concerned about testing suites like Selenium. They have to maintain their own web driver for multiple browsers anyhow, so there is no reason they can't port their web driver from Chrome/Safari across, since they are also WebKit browsers.
>> 
>> It seems you are also suggesting that some businesses outside automated test suites have been using this feature for scraping and what not. My first impression is that this was a bad decision. There are far better tools for doing said job (ie. curl) which are just as simple to use. But, even so, I find the concept that such a small subset of users should be able to hold back the progress of technology, especially in an area where interoperability and standards are important. And I can't imagine that Microsoft should care. If they really can't provide a compatibility layer, then they should just fork IE into two versions: IE and IE Classic and let the dinosaurs continue using the old version. After all, it seems MS is already killing extensions like ActiveX in IE 10 ( http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ie/hh920753 (v=vs.85).aspx).
>> 
>> Smart move. Now they just need to upgrade to WebKit.
>> 
>> - Hans
>> 
>> 
>> On 2013-02-14, at 3:26 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil < mcp2004 at mail.ru > wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Hans --
>>> 
>>> <<<
>>> This is interesting. Could you possibly provide a few examples of where it is used in a manner that is important in some way?
>>>>>> 
>>> To Automate web applications testing:  http://watin.org/documentation/ (  http://www.screencast-o-matic.com/watch/cXeloE2gh )
>>> 
>>> To Automate repetitive tasks when web browsing is a part of a larger desktop application, e.g.
>>> 
>>> " Efficient data entry through browser automation"
>>> 
>>> http://www.codeproject.com/Articles/338036/BrowserAutomationCrawler
>>> 
>>> " Microsoft Web Browser Automation using C#"
>>> 
>>> http://www.codeproject.com/Articles/5452/Microsoft-Web-Browser-Automation-using-C
>>> 
>>> The above is just a generic example - for that case Google API can be used of course but there could be many other cases when there is no any web API and (as I noted above) web browsing functionality is a part of a larger desktop application.
>>> 
>>> In the past (no web services/no web APIs) Microsoft Web Browser Automation was used in (VB6/VBA) apps for web crawling/scraping....
>>> 
>>> To see more examples browse:  http://www.codeproject.com/search.aspx?q=web+browser+automation&x=0&y=0&sbo=kw&pgnum=5
>>> 
>>> or google by "microsoft web browser automation".
>>> 
>>> -- Shamil
>>> 
>>> P.S. I guess Microsoft Web Browser Automation is also used in Selenium (  http://docs.seleniumhq.org/docs/index.jsp ) for IE testing automation...
>>> 
>>> ???????, 14 ??????? 2013, 1:36 -08:00 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen < hans.andersen at phulse.com >:
>>>> 
>>>>> AFAIK Web Browser Automation is widely used.
>>>> 
>>>> This is interesting. Could you possibly provide a few examples of where it is used in a manner that is important in some way?
>>>> 
>>>> - Hans
>>>> 
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Mon Feb 18 04:53:19 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 14:53:19 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech]
 =?utf-8?q?FYI=3A_Moving_to_=22nirvana=22=3A_if_Microso?=
 =?utf-8?q?ft_were_to_shift_to_WebKit=2C_you_can_thank_Opera=2E?=
In-Reply-To: <263F16F0-F404-40A0-827E-774568A10986@phulse.com>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru>
	<1361175431.595514460@f79.mail.ru>
	<263F16F0-F404-40A0-827E-774568A10986@phulse.com>
Message-ID: <1361184799.912504774@f313.mail.ru>

 Hi Hans --

<<<
Why not Trident? Because it runs only on Windows and is harmful
to the web, due to Microsofts desktop dominance.
>>>
Wasn't that Microsoft, which pushed DHMTL/Javascript in the middle of 90-es while "fighting" with Sun's Java applets technology?

http://www.jr.pl/www.quirksmode.org/js/introdh.html

Where Java-applets are now? 
How is Sun doing now?
What company owns Java? 
How is Java evolving comparing to C#? (Hint: rather well but was it Java or C#, which first introduced lamda-expressions, LINQ, dynamic languages' features etc.?)

<<<
> What (tools/technologies) are currently holding back
Anything which is not cross browser and cross platform.
>>>
But why ?cross-platform *unification* is so desirable there? I'm not questioning (communication/API) standards but I do not see how "cross platform technologies" could "save this world" without making it a "really boring flat unified plateau"?

<<<
I don't know if it is. But Googling "IE 10 Web Browser Automation" doesn't return a lot of results to indicate 
that this is an important feature for many people anyhow.
>>>
Did you try to use just "IE Web Browser Automation" without quotes and 'all these words' search option 'ON'?

Googling (with advanced search - 'all these words' option):

IE Web Browser Automation - 4,7 millions search results,
web browser automation - 9.7 million search results,
web browser control Automation - 2,7 million search results,
web browser control API?- 4 million search result
web browser control DOM - 944,000 search results.

As for the question "How many developers are there in the world?" - that seems to be about 12 million ( http://stackoverflow.com/questions/453880/how-many-developers-are-there-in-the-world ).

?

Thank you.

-- Shamil

???????????, 18 ??????? 2013, 1:04 -08:00 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen <hans.andersen at phulse.com>:
>> Does cURL or any other "automation" tools are able to handle web pages, which mainly use AJAX not web forms POSTs?
>
>Yes
>
>> What (tools/technologies) are currently holding back
>
>Anything which is not cross browser and cross platform.
>
>> and is it good or bad to have WebKit "monoculture"
>
>I don't believe we should have a WebKit monoculture. I believe we should have a world free of IE's Trident engine. I'm completely fine with Mozilla Firefox continuing with their Gecko engine. Why not Trident? Because it runs only on Windows and is harmful to the web, due to Microsofts desktop dominance.
>
>> so the process of decoupling could take quite some time, but MS engineers could definitely do that...
>
>Otherwise known as trimming the fat. Everyone wins.
>
>> Yes, I see - that's done AFAIU to better conform to HTML5 standards. But IE Web Browser Automation is currently an integral part of IE components, not an extension.
>
>I don't know if it is. But Googling "IE 10 Web Browser Automation" doesn't return a lot of results to indicate that this is an important feature for many people anyhow.
>
>- Hans
<<< skipped >>>
>

From accessd at shaw.ca  Mon Feb 18 11:31:04 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 09:31:04 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] FYI: Moving to "nirvana": if Microsoft were to shift
	to WebKit, you can thank Opera.
In-Reply-To: <1361175431.595514460@f79.mail.ru>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru><1360841177.262664090@f270.mail.ru><B8C73977-AE44-4646-B0B9-150E2602B633@phulse.com>
	<1361175431.595514460@f79.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <FD3B25B9FBB94F8CB8BBC6CAF3999E5B@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Guys:

I was reading the following article a few days ago and it was posted as a
objective view to webkit. It may be an appropriate time to post it here:

http://robertnyman.com/2013/02/14/webkit-an-objective-view/

As discussed in the article, Webkit is far from stable or standardized and
it might as easily fork one direction or the other at any time.

The interesting thing to note is that no one owns webkit. In fact it is a
completely Open Source project in which many companies and individuals
contribute. 

Aside: It can be noted that Microsoft has contributed resources, at least in
the past and some programmers who either work or have worked for MS are
working on the project now. OSS is the driving force of the computer
industries' creative advancement and proprietary software companies'
resources keep OSS flourishing. IMHO it is all part of the over-all uneasy
alliance between the world proprietary software and OSS world. One can not
grow without the other. 
 
Jim 

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov
Shamil
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 12:17 AM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] FYI: Moving to "nirvana": if Microsoft were to shift
to WebKit, you can thank Opera.

 Hi Hans --

Thank you for your notes.

Does cURL or any other "automation" tools are able to handle web pages,
which mainly use AJAX not web forms POSTs?

<<<
But, even so, I find the concept that such a small subset of users should be
able to 
hold back the progress of technology, especially in an area where
interoperability and standards are important.
>>>
What (tools/technologies) are currently holding back and is it good or bad
to have WebKit "monoculture" - opinions differ:
"The Pros And Cons Of A WebKit Monoculture" (
http://techcrunch.com/2013/02/17/the-pros-and-cons-of-a-webkit-monoculture/
)

<<<
... then they should just fork IE into two versions: IE and IE Classic and
let the dinosaurs continue using the old version...
>>>>
They could be busy doing that currently. BTW, have you even seen the sources
of any large C/C++ COM projects? - from what I have seen/handled such
projects are very tightly coupled with COM interfaces and other COM
"technology artifacts and tricks" - so the process of decoupling could take
quite some time, but MS engineers could definitely do that...

<<<
After all, it seems MS is already killing extensions like ActiveX in IE 10 (
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ie/hh920753 (v=vs.85).aspx).
>>>
Yes, I see - that's done AFAIU to better conform to HTML5 standards. But IE
Web Browser Automation is currently an integral part of IE components, not
an?extension.

Thank you.

-- Shamil

???????????, 17 ??????? 2013, 13:22 -08:00 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen
<hans.andersen at phulse.com>:
>Hi Shamil,
>
>I am not the least bit concerned about testing suites like Selenium. They
have to maintain their own web driver for multiple browsers anyhow, so there
is no reason they can't port their web driver from Chrome/Safari across,
since they are also WebKit browsers.
>
>It seems you are also suggesting that some businesses outside automated
test suites have been using this feature for scraping and what not. My first
impression is that this was a bad decision. There are far better tools for
doing said job (ie. curl) which are just as simple to use. But, even so, I
find the concept that such a small subset of users should be able to hold
back the progress of technology, especially in an area where
interoperability and standards are important. And I can't imagine that
Microsoft should care. If they really can't provide a compatibility layer,
then they should just fork IE into two versions: IE and IE Classic and let
the dinosaurs continue using the old version. After all, it seems MS is
already killing extensions like ActiveX in IE 10 (
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ie/hh920753 (v=vs.85).aspx).
>
>Smart move. Now they just need to upgrade to WebKit.
>
>- Hans
>
>
>On 2013-02-14, at 3:26 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil < mcp2004 at mail.ru > wrote:
>
>> Hi Hans --
>> 
>> <<<
>> This is interesting. Could you possibly provide a few examples of where
it is used in a manner that is important in some way?
>>>>> 
>> To Automate web applications testing:  http://watin.org/documentation/ (
http://www.screencast-o-matic.com/watch/cXeloE2gh )
>> 
>> To Automate repetitive tasks when web browsing is a part of a larger
desktop application, e.g.
>> 
>> " Efficient data entry through browser automation"
>> 
>>  http://www.codeproject.com/Articles/338036/BrowserAutomationCrawler
>> 
>> " Microsoft Web Browser Automation using C#"
>> 
>>
http://www.codeproject.com/Articles/5452/Microsoft-Web-Browser-Automation-us
ing-C
>> 
>> The above is just a generic example - for that case Google API can be
used of course but there could be many other cases when there is no any web
API and (as I noted above) web browsing functionality is a part of a larger
desktop application.
>> 
>> In the past (no web services/no web APIs) Microsoft Web Browser
Automation was used in (VB6/VBA) apps for web crawling/scraping....
>> 
>> To see more examples browse:
http://www.codeproject.com/search.aspx?q=web+browser+automation&x=0&y=0&sbo=
kw&pgnum=5
>> 
>> or google by "microsoft web browser automation".
>> 
>> -- Shamil
>> 
>> P.S. I guess Microsoft Web Browser Automation is also used in Selenium (
http://docs.seleniumhq.org/docs/index.jsp ) for IE testing automation...
>> 
>> ???????, 14 ??????? 2013, 1:36 -08:00 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen <
hans.andersen at phulse.com >:
>>> 
>>>> AFAIK Web Browser Automation is widely used.
>>> 
>>> This is interesting. Could you possibly provide a few examples of where
it is used in a manner that is important in some way?
>>> 
>>> - Hans
>>> 
>

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Mon Feb 18 11:58:56 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 21:58:56 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech]
 =?utf-8?q?FYI=3A_Moving_to_=22nirvana=22=3A_if_Microso?=
 =?utf-8?q?ft_were_to_shift_to_WebKit=2C_you_can_thank_Opera=2E?=
In-Reply-To: <FD3B25B9FBB94F8CB8BBC6CAF3999E5B@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru>
	<1361175431.595514460@f79.mail.ru>
	<FD3B25B9FBB94F8CB8BBC6CAF3999E5B@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <1361210336.670388976@f186.mail.ru>

 Hi Jim --

Thank you for the link - what about the following opinions coming from "Firefox-camp" (read the articles):

"What we do know is that in technology, we?ve never been served well by monocultures ? we know this for sure. I worry that in our desire for clearer definition, easier standards, faster progress, we?re forgetting that we know this. Same as it ever was, I suppose."

http://lilly.tumblr.com/post/43088488614/a-few-folks-have-asked-me-what-i-think-of-the-news

"Why Mozilla Matters" -? "At the Mozilla mission level,? monoculture ?remains a problem that we must fight. The web needs multiple implementations of its evolving standards to keep them interoperable."

https://brendaneich.com/2013/02/why-mozilla-matters

-- Shamil
???????????, 18 ??????? 2013, 9:31 -08:00 ?? "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca>:
>Hi Guys:
>
>I was reading the following article a few days ago and it was posted as a
>objective view to webkit. It may be an appropriate time to post it here:
>
>http://robertnyman.com/2013/02/14/webkit-an-objective-view/
>
>As discussed in the article, Webkit is far from stable or standardized and
>it might as easily fork one direction or the other at any time.
>
>The interesting thing to note is that no one owns webkit. In fact it is a
>completely Open Source project in which many companies and individuals
>contribute. 
>
>Aside: It can be noted that Microsoft has contributed resources, at least in
>the past and some programmers who either work or have worked for MS are
>working on the project now. OSS is the driving force of the computer
>industries' creative advancement and proprietary software companies'
>resources keep OSS flourishing. IMHO it is all part of the over-all uneasy
>alliance between the world proprietary software and OSS world. One can not
>grow without the other. 
>
>Jim 
<<< skipped >>>
>

From accessd at shaw.ca  Mon Feb 18 13:14:59 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 11:14:59 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] FYI: Moving to "nirvana": if Microsoft were to shift
	to WebKit, you can thank Opera.
In-Reply-To: <1361177634.909397491@f335.mail.ru>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru><1361127581.381773310@f370.mail.ru><27EC74E207324BCDB348FD8CA9C81925@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<1361177634.909397491@f335.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <6832C6E617A24816A000299F1179FDA5@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Shamil:

Thanks for the article. 

Whether there are too many applications out there...there always will be and
that is a good thing...one company grows from the creativity and sometime
the ashes of another.

I wish to make a comment particularly on the software packages attached to
the article. I just picked a number at random and checked into how they were
supported and designed. 

Pandora, for example: a car support application. It is built on Linux and
has a web interface...and I have no idea to the rest of the BE or Middleware
but I would suspect other OSS products.

I am sure that most of these applications are built on top of Linux servers
and it is worthy to note that all these companies have extensive websites
for selling and managing their products. Whether these companies disappear
or thrive is always a question but the web designers will be a major part of
their success or failure.

Aside: One of the points that been brought up in the pass and contributes to
the costs of building any website or web UI has been caused by the failing
of Microsoft to keep to the standards...which is why enforced
standardization packages like Webkit, in this business have been so
important. You can look at the heading of every businesses websites (and
every page) and similar coding is placed in the header:

<!--[if lt IE 7]><html lang="en-us" class="no-js lt-ie9 lt-ie8
lt-ie7"><![endif]-->
<!--[if IE 7]><html lang="en-us" class="no-js lt-ie9 lt-ie8"><![endif]-->
<!--[if IE 8]><html lang="en-us" class="no-js lt-ie9"><![endif]-->
<!--[if gt IE 8]><!-->

The above links and associated code has undoubtedly cost every company
thousands of dollars to design and maintain and this is why there is such a
demand for MS to get with program. Whether IE10 will be the solution is yet
to be proven.

As you are specifically (predominantly) a Windows programmer, having
Microsoft standardize is more important to you than to those of us who are
generalists in the business.

Sorry for going off on a tangent but certain observations became apparent
from studying your posted article.
 
Jim       

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov
Shamil
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 12:54 AM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] FYI: Moving to "nirvana": if Microsoft were to shift
to WebKit, you can thank Opera.

 Hi Jim --

That's a good article, thank you for the link. AFAIU it states that web apps
(HTML5/CSS/Javascript) and hybrid apps will be the majority apps in the
future. I'd still doubt they will - as IMO they will always be following
some distance behind?"A Whole New World Of Mobile Markets: Cars, Photos,
TVs, Wallets And More"
(http://techcrunch.com/2013/02/16/which-markets-are-too-crowded-too-early-an
d-just-right/).

BTW, MS Web Browser Control Automation/DOM API interfaces represent an
advanced option to develop hybrid apps.

Thank you.

-- Shamil



From accessd at shaw.ca  Mon Feb 18 14:16:53 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 12:16:53 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] FYI: Moving to "nirvana": if Microsoft were to shift
	to WebKit, you can thank Opera.
In-Reply-To: <1361210336.670388976@f186.mail.ru>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru><1361175431.595514460@f79.mail.ru><FD3B25B9FBB94F8CB8BBC6CAF3999E5B@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<1361210336.670388976@f186.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <A5E9537479A940F085FCD47ADA6EADAF@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Shamil:

>From a developers point of view, I have never had any issues with Mozilla as
they have either made and/or adhered close to the industry standards. In
this business they are one of the good guys and I hope they keep doing what
they are doing.

Imagine a railway that has half a dozen variations of track widths. That
would be a disaster in the making. All our equipment communicates via
standards in protocols and that does not mean each company using those
protocols is part of a uniculture. Imagine what would happen in a family if
every member spoke a different language and refused to communicate in a
common agreed upon dialect.

Microsoft, with its browser has been the industry bad-boy. I suspect that
much their deviation from the industries standards stems from the time when
they were the computer uniculture and what was good for Microsoft was good
for the industry. I think the company has been a little bitter and has been
resistant to the new directions and has been muddying the browser market for
the last five years and now they are suffering appropriately. 

OTOH, I do think or at least hope, that Microsoft can get over themselves
and that they have learned to be a good citizen like Mozilla and the calls
for MS to change their FE to Webkit will no longer be necessary.

Jim 

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov
Shamil
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 9:59 AM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] FYI: Moving to "nirvana": if Microsoft were to shift
to WebKit, you can thank Opera.

 Hi Jim --

Thank you for the link - what about the following opinions coming from
"Firefox-camp" (read the articles):

"What we do know is that in technology, we've never been served well by
monocultures - we know this for sure. I worry that in our desire for clearer
definition, easier standards, faster progress, we're forgetting that we know
this. Same as it ever was, I suppose."

http://lilly.tumblr.com/post/43088488614/a-few-folks-have-asked-me-what-i-th
ink-of-the-news

"Why Mozilla Matters" -? "At the Mozilla mission level,? monoculture
?remains a problem that we must fight. The web needs multiple
implementations of its evolving standards to keep them interoperable."

https://brendaneich.com/2013/02/why-mozilla-matters

-- Shamil
???????????, 18 ??????? 2013, 9:31 -08:00 ?? "Jim Lawrence"
<accessd at shaw.ca>:
>Hi Guys:
>
>I was reading the following article a few days ago and it was posted as a
>objective view to webkit. It may be an appropriate time to post it here:
>
>http://robertnyman.com/2013/02/14/webkit-an-objective-view/
>
>As discussed in the article, Webkit is far from stable or standardized and
>it might as easily fork one direction or the other at any time.
>
>The interesting thing to note is that no one owns webkit. In fact it is a
>completely Open Source project in which many companies and individuals
>contribute. 
>
>Aside: It can be noted that Microsoft has contributed resources, at least
in
>the past and some programmers who either work or have worked for MS are
>working on the project now. OSS is the driving force of the computer
>industries' creative advancement and proprietary software companies'
>resources keep OSS flourishing. IMHO it is all part of the over-all uneasy
>alliance between the world proprietary software and OSS world. One can not
>grow without the other. 
>
>Jim 
<<< skipped >>>
>
_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From hans.andersen at phulse.com  Mon Feb 18 14:42:34 2013
From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 12:42:34 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] FYI: Moving to "nirvana": if Microsoft were to shift
	to WebKit, you can thank Opera.
In-Reply-To: <1361184799.912504774@f313.mail.ru>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru>
	<1361175431.595514460@f79.mail.ru>
	<263F16F0-F404-40A0-827E-774568A10986@phulse.com>
	<1361184799.912504774@f313.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <B00F0DBD-F8E5-48FE-9F55-3D37FBAAEC6F@phulse.com>

> Wasn't that Microsoft, which pushed DHMTL/Javascript

and Netscape. Also, Microsoft pushed for vbscript and activex. ?

> Where Java-applets are now? 
> How is Sun doing now?
> What company owns Java? 

You can thank server-side scripting languages like PHP and, even more so, Flash/Shockwave. JavaScript wasn't taken seriously until Web 2.0 around the mid 2000's.

Also, Sun's collapse has nothing to do with java applets or Microsoft pushing dhtml/js. So, I'm not sure what you are implying with this comparison of java/sun and Microsoft?

> How is Java evolving comparing to C#? (Hint: rather well but was it Java or C#, which first introduced lamda-expressions, LINQ, dynamic languages' features etc.

Neither. Lambda expressions originated with Lisp a long time ago and several languages adopted it far before C# etc. Same goes for most if not all examples you can come up with. For instance, I was using LINQ like features in PHP before Microsoft put it in Visual Studio and branded it "LINQ". Ruby also had active record much before LINQ, etc etc.

> But why  cross-platform *unification* is so desirable there? I'm not questioning (communication/API) standards but I do not see how "cross platform technologies" could "save this world" without making it a "really boring flat unified plateau"?

Because we live in a post-Microsoft dominance era. If I'm developing a web application on a non-Windows platform, it becomes very difficult and tedious to have to test your web app in IE, so most web shops drop proper IE support and leave it as an after thought. Most web developers don't develop on windows, btw. It's more like 80% macs, 10% Linux and 10% windows.

To give you a direct example, my company had an executive meeting this morning and the topic of supporting IE was mentioned. The execs decided to drop support for IE for now and tell users that we only support FF and Chrome for now and maybe that will change in the future.

Same thing happened at my previous company. This is obviously puzzling to someone who only works in a Microsoft world with only Microsoft technologies, but it is a reality. IE is the third wheel, when it comes to web projects.

>  I do not see how "cross platform technologies" could "save this world" without making it a "really boring flat unified plateau"?

If Firefox and chrome can do it (and many others), there's no reason why the Trident engine being cross platform would make it a really boring flat unified plateau. This doesn't seem to be a strong argument, because there are plenty of examples that show the opposite. Besides, the web is about standards, not fancy new browser specific features every week.

> Did you try to use just "IE Web Browser Automation" without quotes and 'all these words' search option 'ON'?

If you Google "Netscape HTML CSS", you get 8.2 million results...


Best regards,
Hans-Christian Andersen


On 18 Feb 2013, at 02:53, Salakhetdinov Shamil <mcp2004 at mail.ru> wrote:

> Hi Hans --
> 
> <<<
> Why not Trident? Because it runs only on Windows and is harmful
> to the web, due to Microsofts desktop dominance.
> Wasn't that Microsoft, which pushed DHMTL/Javascript in the middle of 90-es while "fighting" with Sun's Java applets technology?
> 
> http://www.jr.pl/www.quirksmode.org/js/introdh.html
> 
> Where Java-applets are now? 
> How is Sun doing now?
> What company owns Java? 
> How is Java evolving comparing to C#? (Hint: rather well but was it Java or C#, which first introduced lamda-expressions, LINQ, dynamic languages' features etc.
> <<<
>> What (tools/technologies) are currently holding back
> Anything which is not cross browser and cross platform.
> But why  cross-platform *unification* is so desirable there? I'm not questioning (communication/API) standards but
>  I do not see how "cross platform technologies" could "save this world" without making it a "really boring flat unified plateau"?

> <<<
> I don't know if it is. But Googling "IE 10 Web Browser Automation" doesn't return a lot of results to indicate 
> that this is an important feature for many people anyhow.
> Did you try to use just "IE Web Browser Automation" without quotes and 'all these words' search option 'ON'?
> 
> Googling (with advanced search - 'all these words' option):
> 
> IE Web Browser Automation - 4,7 millions search results,
> web browser automation - 9.7 million search results,
> web browser control Automation - 2,7 million search results,
> web browser control API - 4 million search result
> web browser control DOM - 944,000 search results.
> 
> As for the question "How many developers are there in the world?" - that seems to be about 12 million ( http://stackoverflow.com/questions/453880/how-many-developers-are-there-in-the-world ).
> 
> ?
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> -- Shamil
> 
> ???????????, 18 ??????? 2013, 1:04 -08:00 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen <hans.andersen at phulse.com>:
>>> Does cURL or any other "automation" tools are able to handle web pages, which mainly use AJAX not web forms POSTs?
>> 
>> Yes
>> 
>>> What (tools/technologies) are currently holding back
>> 
>> Anything which is not cross browser and cross platform.
>> 
>>> and is it good or bad to have WebKit "monoculture"
>> 
>> I don't believe we should have a WebKit monoculture. I believe we should have a world free of IE's Trident engine. I'm completely fine with Mozilla Firefox continuing with their Gecko engine. Why not Trident? Because it runs only on Windows and is harmful to the web, due to Microsofts desktop dominance.
>> 
>>> so the process of decoupling could take quite some time, but MS engineers could definitely do that...
>> 
>> Otherwise known as trimming the fat. Everyone wins.
>> 
>>> Yes, I see - that's done AFAIU to better conform to HTML5 standards. But IE Web Browser Automation is currently an integral part of IE components, not an extension.
>> 
>> I don't know if it is. But Googling "IE 10 Web Browser Automation" doesn't return a lot of results to indicate that this is an important feature for many people anyhow.
>> 
>> - Hans
> <<< skipped >>>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From fuller.artful at gmail.com  Mon Feb 18 15:01:03 2013
From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 16:01:03 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] FYI: Moving to "nirvana": if Microsoft were to shift
 to WebKit, you can thank Opera.
In-Reply-To: <B00F0DBD-F8E5-48FE-9F55-3D37FBAAEC6F@phulse.com>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru>
	<1361175431.595514460@f79.mail.ru>
	<263F16F0-F404-40A0-827E-774568A10986@phulse.com>
	<1361184799.912504774@f313.mail.ru>
	<B00F0DBD-F8E5-48FE-9F55-3D37FBAAEC6F@phulse.com>
Message-ID: <CAEPJO1huf3USmv-8cEO4eGQUYEawmG_A1cbB+v1i-ZDfAh3gwA@mail.gmail.com>

One question, Hans. Your current and previous company dropped IE. You
didn't mention Safari. How do they both feel about the Apple and Safari
platform?

A.

From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Mon Feb 18 15:05:35 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 01:05:35 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech]
 =?utf-8?q?FYI=3A_Moving_to_=22nirvana=22=3A_if_Microso?=
 =?utf-8?q?ft_were_to_shift_to_WebKit=2C_you_can_thank_Opera=2E?=
In-Reply-To: <A5E9537479A940F085FCD47ADA6EADAF@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru>
	<1361210336.670388976@f186.mail.ru>
	<A5E9537479A940F085FCD47ADA6EADAF@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <1361221535.267189085@f219.mail.ru>

 Hi Jim --

Thank you for your reply.

I must note I haven't written a word on defense of MS in my last posting you have replied to. Why do you repeat that "mantra": "Microsoft-bad-boys, Microsoft-bad-boys..."??
BTW, I do suppose Microsoft does learn well from their own mistakes, and they do pay high price for that lessons - and it's everybody's own choice to use their technologies and tools (and "share their fails") or not.

But the issue I mentioned wasn't about Microsoft - the issue, which was so well articulated by the author (from FireFox/Mozilla/Gecko/Servo "camp") I referred to, I have to repeat:

"What we do know is that in technology, we've never been served well by?monocultures - we know this for sure. I worry that in our desire for clearer?definition, easier standards, faster progress, we're forgetting that we know?this. Same as it ever was, I suppose."

And so my question is: "Why do you and Hans expect that WebKit monoculture will play well in long run?" (Forks do not make Webkit "mutli-cultural" as it's explained in the article I've referred to).

As far as I see "Mozilla-boys" do not have any strong objections on existence of Trident engine, actually they greet the fact that there are several competing rendering/Javascript engines, and they expect more to come in the near future...

Thank you.

-- Shamil

???????????, 18 ??????? 2013, 12:16 -08:00 ?? "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca>:
>Hi Shamil:
>
>From a developers point of view, I have never had any issues with Mozilla as
>they have either made and/or adhered close to the industry standards. In
>this business they are one of the good guys and I hope they keep doing what
>they are doing.
>
>Imagine a railway that has half a dozen variations of track widths. That
>would be a disaster in the making. All our equipment communicates via
>standards in protocols and that does not mean each company using those
>protocols is part of a uniculture. Imagine what would happen in a family if
>every member spoke a different language and refused to communicate in a
>common agreed upon dialect.
>
>Microsoft, with its browser has been the industry bad-boy. I suspect that
>much their deviation from the industries standards stems from the time when
>they were the computer uniculture and what was good for Microsoft was good
>for the industry. I think the company has been a little bitter and has been
>resistant to the new directions and has been muddying the browser market for
>the last five years and now they are suffering appropriately. 
>
>OTOH, I do think or at least hope, that Microsoft can get over themselves
>and that they have learned to be a good citizen like Mozilla and the calls
>for MS to change their FE to Webkit will no longer be necessary.
>
>Jim 
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From:  dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov
>Shamil
>Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 9:59 AM
>To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] FYI: Moving to "nirvana": if Microsoft were to shift
>to WebKit, you can thank Opera.
>
>?Hi Jim --
>
>Thank you for the link - what about the following opinions coming from
>"Firefox-camp" (read the articles):
>
>"What we do know is that in technology, we've never been served well by
>monocultures - we know this for sure. I worry that in our desire for clearer
>definition, easier standards, faster progress, we're forgetting that we know
>this. Same as it ever was, I suppose."
>
>http://lilly.tumblr.com/post/43088488614/a-few-folks-have-asked-me-what-i-th
>ink-of-the-news
>
>"Why Mozilla Matters" -? "At the Mozilla mission level,? monoculture
>?remains a problem that we must fight. The web needs multiple
>implementations of its evolving standards to keep them interoperable."
>
>https://brendaneich.com/2013/02/why-mozilla-matters
>
>-- Shamil
<<< skipped >>>
>

From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Mon Feb 18 15:37:59 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 01:37:59 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech]
 =?utf-8?q?FYI=3A_Moving_to_=22nirvana=22=3A_if_Microso?=
 =?utf-8?q?ft_were_to_shift_to_WebKit=2C_you_can_thank_Opera=2E?=
In-Reply-To: <6832C6E617A24816A000299F1179FDA5@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru>
	<1361177634.909397491@f335.mail.ru>
	<6832C6E617A24816A000299F1179FDA5@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <1361223479.497793308@f179.mail.ru>

 Hi Jim --

Yes, I know about special coding needed for IE6,7,8. But this is now history, isn't it?

And as I have just noted in another post - I haven't said a word "in defense" of Microsoft - why you can't stop mentioning them when the issue I'm raising is "WebKit monoculture" and the probable (IMO) dominance in the (near) future of mobile and hybrid applications over browser hosted applications, independent on technology they will be developed with?

I personally never liked MS DOS/Windows dominance but I worked with MS DOS/MS Windows because that were technologies used by my customers, who I worked for to make my family living. And now when MS Windows is getting so "fierce competition on all the fronts" - that's a good sign for me that this industry is getting healthier. And I see how Microsoft responds to that competition - ?and I have now a choice to use MS development tools I'm so accustomed to to develop "pure HTML/CSS/Javascript" apps, or hybrid apps, or native WindowsRT/WinPhone apps using industry standard C/C++, or Android and iPhone/iPad apps (Monodroid/Monotouch - C#) , I can use different SQL Servers running under MS Windows, I can develop office document using standardized Open Office XML? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_Open_XML ?supported not only by MS Office but also LibreOffice etc.

BTW, the OS I liked most of all for PCs was QNX - I have never worked with it but I was so impressed with its graphical interface and speed of execution: AFAIK QNX is now used in the recently released BlackBerry 10 ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QNX )

Thank you.

-- Shamil

???????????, 18 ??????? 2013, 11:14 -08:00 ?? "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca>:
>Hi Shamil:
>
>Thanks for the article. 
>
>Whether there are too many applications out there...there always will be and
>that is a good thing...one company grows from the creativity and sometime
>the ashes of another.
>
>I wish to make a comment particularly on the software packages attached to
>the article. I just picked a number at random and checked into how they were
>supported and designed. 
>
>Pandora, for example: a car support application. It is built on Linux and
>has a web interface...and I have no idea to the rest of the BE or Middleware
>but I would suspect other OSS products.
>
>I am sure that most of these applications are built on top of Linux servers
>and it is worthy to note that all these companies have extensive websites
>for selling and managing their products. Whether these companies disappear
>or thrive is always a question but the web designers will be a major part of
>their success or failure.
>
>Aside: One of the points that been brought up in the pass and contributes to
>the costs of building any website or web UI has been caused by the failing
>of Microsoft to keep to the standards...which is why enforced
>standardization packages like Webkit, in this business have been so
>important. You can look at the heading of every businesses websites (and
>every page) and similar coding is placed in the header:
>
><!--[if lt IE 7]><html lang="en-us" class="no-js lt-ie9 lt-ie8
>lt-ie7"><![endif]-->
><!--[if IE 7]><html lang="en-us" class="no-js lt-ie9 lt-ie8"><![endif]-->
><!--[if IE 8]><html lang="en-us" class="no-js lt-ie9"><![endif]-->
><!--[if gt IE 8]><!-->
>
>The above links and associated code has undoubtedly cost every company
>thousands of dollars to design and maintain and this is why there is such a
>demand for MS to get with program. Whether IE10 will be the solution is yet
>to be proven.
>
>As you are specifically (predominantly) a Windows programmer, having
>Microsoft standardize is more important to you than to those of us who are
>generalists in the business.
>
>Sorry for going off on a tangent but certain observations became apparent
>from studying your posted article.
>
>Jim 
<<< skipped >>>
>

From rockysmolin at bchacc.com  Mon Feb 18 16:16:09 2013
From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 14:16:09 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Remove follow up item
Message-ID: <5B8D3DC9E80E4FF1AC6F032E58E259D5@HAL9007>

Dear List:
 
Does anyone know how to remove an item from the follow up folder without
deleting it from the follow up folder which also deletes the email from its
original location?
 
MTIA
 
Rocky Smolin
Beach Access Software
858-259-4334
www.bchacc.com <http://www.bchacc.com/> 
www.e-z-mrp.com <http://www.e-z-mrp.com/> 
Skype: rocky.smolin
 

From hans.andersen at phulse.com  Mon Feb 18 16:29:25 2013
From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 14:29:25 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] FYI: Moving to "nirvana": if Microsoft were to shift
 to WebKit, you can thank Opera.
In-Reply-To: <CAEPJO1huf3USmv-8cEO4eGQUYEawmG_A1cbB+v1i-ZDfAh3gwA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru>
	<1361175431.595514460@f79.mail.ru>
	<263F16F0-F404-40A0-827E-774568A10986@phulse.com>
	<1361184799.912504774@f313.mail.ru>
	<B00F0DBD-F8E5-48FE-9F55-3D37FBAAEC6F@phulse.com>
	<CAEPJO1huf3USmv-8cEO4eGQUYEawmG_A1cbB+v1i-ZDfAh3gwA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFj0BAxjMzq6z97ae2LhWzNHHfo7PgRsJwM+UCLENQP_TEBsdQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Arthur,

Good question.

Safari is only relevant when discussing web on mobile, since iOS dominates
mobile web traffic by far (80% or so). So if you care how your site looks
on mobile phones, this is a concern. Otherwise, on the desktop, Safari is
pretty irrelevant.

My last company was more concerned about web traffic, so Safari was
definitely a concern. For my current one, it is not.

However, considering that both Chrome and Safari are based on WebKit, 99%
of the time, what works in Chrome works in Safari, which makes it less of
an issue compared to whether you want to support IE or not.

- Hans





*

Hans-Christian Andersen
**Web Application Developer, Vancouver, Canada*


E: hans at phulse.com
T: +44 (0)20 7193 7841
L: http://uk.linkedin.com/in/andersenhc
http://www.nokenode.com/

*Unique Gifts, Collectables, Artwork*
*Come one, come all to.... *www.corinnajasmine.com
*
*



On 18 February 2013 13:01, Arthur Fuller <fuller.artful at gmail.com> wrote:

> One question, Hans. Your current and previous company dropped IE. You
> didn't mention Safari. How do they both feel about the Apple and Safari
> platform?
>
> A.
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>

From rockysmolin at bchacc.com  Mon Feb 18 16:52:19 2013
From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 14:52:19 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Remove follow up item
In-Reply-To: <5B8D3DC9E80E4FF1AC6F032E58E259D5@HAL9007>
References: <5B8D3DC9E80E4FF1AC6F032E58E259D5@HAL9007>
Message-ID: <DB6DCF80023B4A5CB9C2D7E5F56FA9DF@HAL9007>

Never mind - found it.

R 

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 2:16 PM
To: List
Subject: [dba-Tech] Remove follow up item

Dear List:
 
Does anyone know how to remove an item from the follow up folder without
deleting it from the follow up folder which also deletes the email from its
original location?
 
MTIA
 
Rocky Smolin
Beach Access Software
858-259-4334
www.bchacc.com <http://www.bchacc.com/> www.e-z-mrp.com
<http://www.e-z-mrp.com/>
Skype: rocky.smolin
 
_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From accessd at shaw.ca  Mon Feb 18 17:14:15 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 15:14:15 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] FYI: Moving to "nirvana": if Microsoft were to shift
	to WebKit, you can thank Opera.
In-Reply-To: <1361221535.267189085@f219.mail.ru>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru><1361210336.670388976@f186.mail.ru><A5E9537479A940F085FCD47ADA6EADAF@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<1361221535.267189085@f219.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <D27554B1CCFC4CEDAAC3A23E9A3FF8AA@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Shamil:

It is just that I will be struggling through a website and the owner, a
small artist, wants MS functionality...and the client was not happy that the
site will now cost more so they have limited the site size to match their
budget...it is not pleasant situation as they hold me somehow responsible.

So I was just rambling being on the immediate topic.

Personally, I could care less about who makes a browser or who does not. The
only one requirement I have is that it works and works right and, at the
moment, up to my eyebrows in page hacks, I really could not care how this
task is achieved.

Now I know why, as of a January poll, only 12 percent of web developers
develop in Microsoft, down from 15 percent last October. 

I apologies for not being very philosophical about this but Microsoft has
the money and techs to make the Trident engine compatible so it is mandatory
to get their house in order...or their worse fears and maybe ours, that the
unfortunate uniculture of the Webkit will be a fact...and Microsoft will be
to blame.  

Jim 

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov
Shamil
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 1:06 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] FYI: Moving to "nirvana": if Microsoft were to shift
to WebKit, you can thank Opera.

 Hi Jim --

Thank you for your reply.

I must note I haven't written a word on defense of MS in my last posting you
have replied to. Why do you repeat that "mantra": "Microsoft-bad-boys,
Microsoft-bad-boys..."??
BTW, I do suppose Microsoft does learn well from their own mistakes, and
they do pay high price for that lessons - and it's everybody's own choice to
use their technologies and tools (and "share their fails") or not.

But the issue I mentioned wasn't about Microsoft - the issue, which was so
well articulated by the author (from FireFox/Mozilla/Gecko/Servo "camp") I
referred to, I have to repeat:

"What we do know is that in technology, we've never been served well
by?monocultures - we know this for sure. I worry that in our desire for
clearer?definition, easier standards, faster progress, we're forgetting that
we know?this. Same as it ever was, I suppose."

And so my question is: "Why do you and Hans expect that WebKit monoculture
will play well in long run?" (Forks do not make Webkit "mutli-cultural" as
it's explained in the article I've referred to).

As far as I see "Mozilla-boys" do not have any strong objections on
existence of Trident engine, actually they greet the fact that there are
several competing rendering/Javascript engines, and they expect more to come
in the near future...

Thank you.

-- Shamil

???????????, 18 ??????? 2013, 12:16 -08:00 ?? "Jim Lawrence"
<accessd at shaw.ca>:
>Hi Shamil:
>
>From a developers point of view, I have never had any issues with Mozilla
as
>they have either made and/or adhered close to the industry standards. In
>this business they are one of the good guys and I hope they keep doing what
>they are doing.
>
>Imagine a railway that has half a dozen variations of track widths. That
>would be a disaster in the making. All our equipment communicates via
>standards in protocols and that does not mean each company using those
>protocols is part of a uniculture. Imagine what would happen in a family if
>every member spoke a different language and refused to communicate in a
>common agreed upon dialect.
>
>Microsoft, with its browser has been the industry bad-boy. I suspect that
>much their deviation from the industries standards stems from the time when
>they were the computer uniculture and what was good for Microsoft was good
>for the industry. I think the company has been a little bitter and has been
>resistant to the new directions and has been muddying the browser market
for
>the last five years and now they are suffering appropriately. 
>
>OTOH, I do think or at least hope, that Microsoft can get over themselves
>and that they have learned to be a good citizen like Mozilla and the calls
>for MS to change their FE to Webkit will no longer be necessary.
>
>Jim 
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From:  dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov
>Shamil
>Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 9:59 AM
>To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] FYI: Moving to "nirvana": if Microsoft were to
shift
>to WebKit, you can thank Opera.
>
>?Hi Jim --
>
>Thank you for the link - what about the following opinions coming from
>"Firefox-camp" (read the articles):
>
>"What we do know is that in technology, we've never been served well by
>monocultures - we know this for sure. I worry that in our desire for
clearer
>definition, easier standards, faster progress, we're forgetting that we
know
>this. Same as it ever was, I suppose."
>
>http://lilly.tumblr.com/post/43088488614/a-few-folks-have-asked-me-what-i-t
h
>ink-of-the-news
>
>"Why Mozilla Matters" -? "At the Mozilla mission level,? monoculture
>?remains a problem that we must fight. The web needs multiple
>implementations of its evolving standards to keep them interoperable."
>
>https://brendaneich.com/2013/02/why-mozilla-matters
>
>-- Shamil
<<< skipped >>>
>
_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From accessd at shaw.ca  Mon Feb 18 17:18:38 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 15:18:38 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Remove follow up item
In-Reply-To: <DB6DCF80023B4A5CB9C2D7E5F56FA9DF@HAL9007>
References: <5B8D3DC9E80E4FF1AC6F032E58E259D5@HAL9007>
	<DB6DCF80023B4A5CB9C2D7E5F56FA9DF@HAL9007>
Message-ID: <A84A6D608AF3437CBF9243A25FC2DE02@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Rocky:

Well, post it...don't leave us in the lurch. ;-)

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 2:52 PM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Remove follow up item

Never mind - found it.

R 

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 2:16 PM
To: List
Subject: [dba-Tech] Remove follow up item

Dear List:
 
Does anyone know how to remove an item from the follow up folder without
deleting it from the follow up folder which also deletes the email from its
original location?
 
MTIA
 
Rocky Smolin
Beach Access Software
858-259-4334
www.bchacc.com <http://www.bchacc.com/> www.e-z-mrp.com
<http://www.e-z-mrp.com/>
Skype: rocky.smolin
 
_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Mon Feb 18 17:31:25 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 03:31:25 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech]
 =?utf-8?q?FYI=3A_Moving_to_=22nirvana=22=3A_if_Microso?=
 =?utf-8?q?ft_were_to_shift_to_WebKit=2C_you_can_thank_Opera=2E?=
In-Reply-To: <D27554B1CCFC4CEDAAC3A23E9A3FF8AA@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru>
	<1361221535.267189085@f219.mail.ru>
	<D27554B1CCFC4CEDAAC3A23E9A3FF8AA@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <1361230285.892642442@f297.mail.ru>

 Hi Jim --

OK, let's see how Trident engine/IE will evolve in competition and cooperation with Chrome and Firefox...

BTW, you planned to run IE10 and Chrome 24 tests - waiting for your test results here...

Thank you.

-- Shamil


???????????, 18 ??????? 2013, 15:14 -08:00 ?? "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca>:
>Hi Shamil:
>
>It is just that I will be struggling through a website and the owner, a
>small artist, wants MS functionality...and the client was not happy that the
>site will now cost more so they have limited the site size to match their
>budget...it is not pleasant situation as they hold me somehow responsible.
>
>So I was just rambling being on the immediate topic.
>
>Personally, I could care less about who makes a browser or who does not. The
>only one requirement I have is that it works and works right and, at the
>moment, up to my eyebrows in page hacks, I really could not care how this
>task is achieved.
>
>Now I know why, as of a January poll, only 12 percent of web developers
>develop in Microsoft, down from 15 percent last October. 
>
>I apologies for not being very philosophical about this but Microsoft has
>the money and techs to make the Trident engine compatible so it is mandatory
>to get their house in order...or their worse fears and maybe ours, that the
>unfortunate uniculture of the Webkit will be a fact...and Microsoft will be
>to blame. 
>
>Jim 
<<< skipped >>>
>

From accessd at shaw.ca  Mon Feb 18 17:42:42 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 15:42:42 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] FYI: Moving to "nirvana": if Microsoft were to shift
	to WebKit, you can thank Opera.
In-Reply-To: <1361223479.497793308@f179.mail.ru>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru><1361177634.909397491@f335.mail.ru><6832C6E617A24816A000299F1179FDA5@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<1361223479.497793308@f179.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <2BB6163090EF435485F92D539174991A@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Shamil:

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov
Shamil
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 1:38 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] FYI: Moving to "nirvana": if Microsoft were to shift
to WebKit, you can thank Opera.

 Hi Jim --

> Having to be involved in the IE issues makes it a current problem. You
forgot IE9 and we hope IE10 is will not be in the list below. Do you know
what percentage of companies still are using XP or mixed XP/Windows7?
 
Yes, I know about special coding needed for IE6,7,8. But this is now
history, isn't it?

> When I was in the business virtually a hundred percent of my income was
made through Microsoft. Today, I am in the position to look at things a
little more objectively.

And as I have just noted in another post - I haven't said a word "in
defense" of Microsoft - why you can't stop mentioning them when the issue
I'm raising is "WebKit monoculture" and the probable (IMO) dominance in the
(near) future of mobile and hybrid applications over browser hosted
applications, independent on technology they will be developed with?

> My buisness in the last few years has been all about servers and website
sites and web pages and web functionality and remote capability. I touch
little hard coding (unless you consider ASP.Net or JavaScript as hard
coding) except for support work on an ocassional Access application and of
course a couple of old legacy apps. 
 
I personally never liked MS DOS/Windows dominance but I worked with MS
DOS/MS Windows because that were technologies used by my customers, who I
worked for to make my family living. And now when MS Windows is getting so
"fierce competition on all the fronts" - that's a good sign for me that this
industry is getting healthier. And I see how Microsoft responds to that
competition - ?and I have now a choice to use MS development tools I'm so
accustomed to to develop "pure HTML/CSS/Javascript" apps, or hybrid apps, or
native WindowsRT/WinPhone apps using industry standard C/C++, or Android and
iPhone/iPad apps (Monodroid/Monotouch - C#) , I can use different SQL
Servers running under MS Windows, I can develop office document using
standardized Open Office XML? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_Open_XML
?supported not only by MS Office but also LibreOffice etc.

BTW, the OS I liked most of all for PCs was QNX - I have never worked with
it but I was so impressed with its graphical interface and speed of
execution: AFAIK QNX is now used in the recently released BlackBerry 10 (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QNX )

> In summary, like yourself I would suspect, love computers, the technology
and creativity that makes it all a reality...and do not view development
work as just a job or even as a career but as a calling.

Thank you.

-- Shamil

Jim



From accessd at shaw.ca  Mon Feb 18 17:54:01 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 15:54:01 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] FYI: Moving to "nirvana": if Microsoft were to shift
	to WebKit, you can thank Opera.
In-Reply-To: <1361230285.892642442@f297.mail.ru>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru><1361221535.267189085@f219.mail.ru><D27554B1CCFC4CEDAAC3A23E9A3FF8AA@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<1361230285.892642442@f297.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <2E832DC531224E15A51FF6EF5EBC4B47@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Shamil:

That is an event that will take place later in March... Prior programming
commitments. ;-)

Jim  

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov
Shamil
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 3:31 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] FYI: Moving to "nirvana": if Microsoft were to shift
to WebKit, you can thank Opera.

 Hi Jim --

OK, let's see how Trident engine/IE will evolve in competition and
cooperation with Chrome and Firefox...

BTW, you planned to run IE10 and Chrome 24 tests - waiting for your test
results here...

Thank you.

-- Shamil


???????????, 18 ??????? 2013, 15:14 -08:00 ?? "Jim Lawrence"
<accessd at shaw.ca>:
>Hi Shamil:
>
>It is just that I will be struggling through a website and the owner, a
>small artist, wants MS functionality...and the client was not happy that
the
>site will now cost more so they have limited the site size to match their
>budget...it is not pleasant situation as they hold me somehow responsible.
>
>So I was just rambling being on the immediate topic.
>
>Personally, I could care less about who makes a browser or who does not.
The
>only one requirement I have is that it works and works right and, at the
>moment, up to my eyebrows in page hacks, I really could not care how this
>task is achieved.
>
>Now I know why, as of a January poll, only 12 percent of web developers
>develop in Microsoft, down from 15 percent last October. 
>
>I apologies for not being very philosophical about this but Microsoft has
>the money and techs to make the Trident engine compatible so it is
mandatory
>to get their house in order...or their worse fears and maybe ours, that the
>unfortunate uniculture of the Webkit will be a fact...and Microsoft will be
>to blame. 
>
>Jim 
<<< skipped >>>
>
_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Mon Feb 18 17:56:59 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 03:56:59 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech]
 =?utf-8?q?FYI=3A_Moving_to_=22nirvana=22=3A_if_Microso?=
 =?utf-8?q?ft_were_to_shift_to_WebKit=2C_you_can_thank_Opera=2E?=
In-Reply-To: <B00F0DBD-F8E5-48FE-9F55-3D37FBAAEC6F@phulse.com>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru>
	<1361184799.912504774@f313.mail.ru>
	<B00F0DBD-F8E5-48FE-9F55-3D37FBAAEC6F@phulse.com>
Message-ID: <1361231819.663879051@f248.mail.ru>

 Hans --

Yes, both Netscape and Microsoft pushed DHML/Javascript (as well as XmlHttp/AJAX) but Microsoft happened (because of its dominance that time) to become the main "pusher" (pun/dual meaning not intended) together with PHP as you noted (and Perl? and "classic" ASP?), which finally corrupted java-applets technology, which Sun in 90-ies was going to use as a base technology to "kill Microsoft".

Yes, Microsoft also pushed ActiveX, and that technology brought not only security issues but did let Flash ActiveX control to appear.?
Yes, vbscript was also pushed by MS but that was mainly for VB(A) programmers

Yes, lambda-expressions were originated in LISP (and before that defined in relational calculus AFAIKR) but C# was the first general purpose language where lambda-expressions were implemented in "full power", wasn't it? Also C# LINQ has "dialects" to manipulate objects, XML, SQL databases, ... - and it has an open specification, which can be used to develop LINQ providers for any type of (structured) data. And its features as lazy evaluation, composition, parallel execution are if not unique but were the first, which were implemented in the general purpose language. Have they been implemented already in Java?

<<<
Because we live in a post-Microsoft dominance era.
>>>
OK, but this statement doesn't explain anyhow why "Webkit monoculture" would be better in long run than "Microsoft desktop dominance in 90-es, first part of 00-es", does it?

<<<
If Firefox and chrome can do it (and many others), there's no reason why?
the Trident engine being cross platform would make it a really boring flat unified plateau
>>>
By "boring flat unified plateau"?I meant "WebKit everywhere".
As for "cross-platform standards" - AFAIS Trident engine is getting very close to conform them now.

<<<
> Did you try to use just "IE Web Browser Automation" without quotes and 'all these words' search option 'ON'?
If you Google "Netscape HTML CSS", you get 8.2 million results...
>>>
OK - but googling by exact phrase ?'IE 10 Web Browser Automation' ?isn't relevant way of getting information on how often "Microsoft (Internet Explorer) Web Browser (control) Automation" subject is mentioned on web sites.

Thank you.

-- Shamil




From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Mon Feb 18 18:03:57 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 04:03:57 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech]
 =?utf-8?q?FYI=3A_Moving_to_=22nirvana=22=3A_if_Microso?=
 =?utf-8?q?ft_were_to_shift_to_WebKit=2C_you_can_thank_Opera=2E?=
In-Reply-To: <2BB6163090EF435485F92D539174991A@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru>
	<1361223479.497793308@f179.mail.ru>
	<2BB6163090EF435485F92D539174991A@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <1361232237.92477798@f248.mail.ru>

 Hi Jim --

Yes, "as a calling" but if it had happened I have had chosen another profession I'd have felt it was my calling - so that is more "general attitude to any job to do" that just a "feeling of calling for software development".

Thank you.

-- Shamil

???????????, 18 ??????? 2013, 15:42 -08:00 ?? "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca>:
>Hi Shamil:
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From:  dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov
>Shamil
>Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 1:38 PM
>To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] FYI: Moving to "nirvana": if Microsoft were to shift
>to WebKit, you can thank Opera.
>
>?Hi Jim --
>
>> Having to be involved in the IE issues makes it a current problem. You
>forgot IE9 and we hope IE10 is will not be in the list below. Do you know
>what percentage of companies still are using XP or mixed XP/Windows7?
>?
>Yes, I know about special coding needed for IE6,7,8. But this is now
>history, isn't it?
>
>> When I was in the business virtually a hundred percent of my income was
>made through Microsoft. Today, I am in the position to look at things a
>little more objectively.
>
>And as I have just noted in another post - I haven't said a word "in
>defense" of Microsoft - why you can't stop mentioning them when the issue
>I'm raising is "WebKit monoculture" and the probable (IMO) dominance in the
>(near) future of mobile and hybrid applications over browser hosted
>applications, independent on technology they will be developed with?
>
>> My buisness in the last few years has been all about servers and website
>sites and web pages and web functionality and remote capability. I touch
>little hard coding (unless you consider ASP.Net or JavaScript as hard
>coding) except for support work on an ocassional Access application and of
>course a couple of old legacy apps. 
>?
>I personally never liked MS DOS/Windows dominance but I worked with MS
>DOS/MS Windows because that were technologies used by my customers, who I
>worked for to make my family living. And now when MS Windows is getting so
>"fierce competition on all the fronts" - that's a good sign for me that this
>industry is getting healthier. And I see how Microsoft responds to that
>competition - ?and I have now a choice to use MS development tools I'm so
>accustomed to to develop "pure HTML/CSS/Javascript" apps, or hybrid apps, or
>native WindowsRT/WinPhone apps using industry standard C/C++, or Android and
>iPhone/iPad apps (Monodroid/Monotouch - C#) , I can use different SQL
>Servers running under MS Windows, I can develop office document using
>standardized Open Office XML?  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_Open_XML
>?supported not only by MS Office but also LibreOffice etc.
>
>BTW, the OS I liked most of all for PCs was QNX - I have never worked with
>it but I was so impressed with its graphical interface and speed of
>execution: AFAIK QNX is now used in the recently released BlackBerry 10 (
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QNX )
>
>> In summary, like yourself I would suspect, love computers, the technology
>and creativity that makes it all a reality...and do not view development
>work as just a job or even as a career but as a calling.
>
>Thank you.
>
>-- Shamil
>
>Jim
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>dba-Tech mailing list
>dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>Website:  http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Mon Feb 18 18:09:25 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 04:09:25 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech]
 =?utf-8?q?FYI=3A_Moving_to_=22nirvana=22=3A_if_Microso?=
 =?utf-8?q?ft_were_to_shift_to_WebKit=2C_you_can_thank_Opera=2E?=
In-Reply-To: <2E832DC531224E15A51FF6EF5EBC4B47@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru>
	<1361230285.892642442@f297.mail.ru>
	<2E832DC531224E15A51FF6EF5EBC4B47@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <1361232565.31963339@f248.mail.ru>

 Hi Jim --

No problem. The longer it takes there to find time for 'IE 10 vs. Chrome 24' tests the better IE test results could be as MS could release the new IE 11 somewhere this year :)

Thank you.

-- Shamil


???????????, 18 ??????? 2013, 15:54 -08:00 ?? "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca>:
>Hi Shamil:
>
>That is an event that will take place later in March... Prior programming
>commitments. ;-)
>
>Jim 
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From:  dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov
>Shamil
>Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 3:31 PM
>To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] FYI: Moving to "nirvana": if Microsoft were to shift
>to WebKit, you can thank Opera.
>
>?Hi Jim --
>
>OK, let's see how Trident engine/IE will evolve in competition and
>cooperation with Chrome and Firefox...
>
>BTW, you planned to run IE10 and Chrome 24 tests - waiting for your test
>results here...
>
>Thank you.
>
>-- Shamil
<<< skipped >>>
>

From hans.andersen at phulse.com  Mon Feb 18 18:44:25 2013
From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 16:44:25 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] FYI: Moving to "nirvana": if Microsoft were to shift
 to WebKit, you can thank Opera.
In-Reply-To: <1361231819.663879051@f248.mail.ru>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru>
	<1361184799.912504774@f313.mail.ru>
	<B00F0DBD-F8E5-48FE-9F55-3D37FBAAEC6F@phulse.com>
	<1361231819.663879051@f248.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <CAFj0BAzMB63Jdh-Q9ZBAB4FeQwu=MVQ2xtpLZZxqt=DxWnnk0A@mail.gmail.com>

> Yes, lambda-expressions were originated in LISP (and before that defined
in relational calculus AFAIKR) but C# was the first general purpose
language where lambda-expressions were implemented in "full power", wasn't
it? Also C# LINQ has "dialects" to manipulate objects, XML, SQL databases,
... - and it has an open specification, which can be used to develop LINQ
providers for any type of (structured) data. And its features as lazy
evaluation, composition, parallel execution are if not unique but were the
first, which were implemented in the general purpose language. Have they
been implemented already in Java?

So, are you saying that as far as you are concerned, the only general
purpose languages are Java and C# ? As far as I'm aware, Python is a much
more popular language than C# and it has had lambda expressions since
before C#.

Aside from the java stuff (not sure what your meaning in bringing this up
is), are you trying to say that Microsoft has done some things in the past
that has eventually resulted in some good things? I'm not saying they
haven't, just as the same is true for Apple and Google and Sun, etc, but I
don't think that changes anything regarding the net positive vs the net
negative of IE.

> OK, but this statement doesn't explain anyhow why "Webkit monoculture"
would be better in long run than "Microsoft desktop dominance in 90-es,
first part of 00-es", does it?

> By "boring flat unified plateau" I meant "WebKit everywhere".

> As for "cross-platform standards" - AFAIS Trident engine is getting very
close to conform them now.

This is a straw man argument, so I'm not going to address it other than to
say that I haven't ever said webkit should be used everywhere (if you refer
to my previous emails in this thread) nor do I think it should be.

> OK - but googling by exact phrase  'IE 10 Web Browser Automation'  isn't
relevant way of getting information on how often "Microsoft (Internet
Explorer) Web Browser (control) Automation" subject is mentioned on web
sites.

I'm not understanding your point here, so I want to avoid us going around
in circles. What I said was that googling the aforementioned doesn't
indicate to me that this is a terribly important component in general. And,
in any event, I did say that MS can remedy this in several ways:

- Release 2 versions of IE: IE modern and IE classic

- Update the Web Browser Automation whatever code to work with their new
WebKit implementation (I honestly don't see why this is an issue, it's not
like MS doesn't update Trident in ways that break old code)

- Selenium and such third party tools already have web drivers for WebKit
(chrome/safari), so for them to implement it in IE modern is trivial

Cheers


*

Hans-Christian Andersen
**Web Application Developer, Vancouver, Canada*


E: hans at phulse.com
T: +44 (0)20 7193 7841
L: http://uk.linkedin.com/in/andersenhc
http://www.nokenode.com/

*Unique Gifts, Collectables, Artwork*
*Come one, come all to.... *www.corinnajasmine.com
*
*



On 18 February 2013 15:56, Salakhetdinov Shamil <mcp2004 at mail.ru> wrote:

>  Hans --
>
> Yes, both Netscape and Microsoft pushed DHML/Javascript (as well as
> XmlHttp/AJAX) but Microsoft happened (because of its dominance that time)
> to become the main "pusher" (pun/dual meaning not intended) together with
> PHP as you noted (and Perl? and "classic" ASP?), which finally corrupted
> java-applets technology, which Sun in 90-ies was going to use as a base
> technology to "kill Microsoft".
>
> Yes, Microsoft also pushed ActiveX, and that technology brought not only
> security issues but did let Flash ActiveX control to appear.
> Yes, vbscript was also pushed by MS but that was mainly for VB(A)
> programmers
>
> Yes, lambda-expressions were originated in LISP (and before that defined
> in relational calculus AFAIKR) but C# was the first general purpose
> language where lambda-expressions were implemented in "full power", wasn't
> it? Also C# LINQ has "dialects" to manipulate objects, XML, SQL databases,
> ... - and it has an open specification, which can be used to develop LINQ
> providers for any type of (structured) data. And its features as lazy
> evaluation, composition, parallel execution are if not unique but were the
> first, which were implemented in the general purpose language. Have they
> been implemented already in Java?
>
> <<<
> Because we live in a post-Microsoft dominance era.
> >>>
> OK, but this statement doesn't explain anyhow why "Webkit monoculture"
> would be better in long run than "Microsoft desktop dominance in 90-es,
> first part of 00-es", does it?
>
> <<<
> If Firefox and chrome can do it (and many others), there's no reason why
> the Trident engine being cross platform would make it a really boring flat
> unified plateau
> >>>
> By "boring flat unified plateau" I meant "WebKit everywhere".
> As for "cross-platform standards" - AFAIS Trident engine is getting very
> close to conform them now.
>
> <<<
> > Did you try to use just "IE Web Browser Automation" without quotes and
> 'all these words' search option 'ON'?
> If you Google "Netscape HTML CSS", you get 8.2 million results...
> >>>
> OK - but googling by exact phrase  'IE 10 Web Browser Automation'  isn't
> relevant way of getting information on how often "Microsoft (Internet
> Explorer) Web Browser (control) Automation" subject is mentioned on web
> sites.
>
> Thank you.
>
> -- Shamil
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>

From accessd at shaw.ca  Mon Feb 18 18:47:10 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 16:47:10 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] The question being asked..,
In-Reply-To: <1361232565.31963339@f248.mail.ru>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru><1361230285.892642442@f297.mail.ru><2E832DC531224E15A51FF6EF5EBC4B47@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<1361232565.31963339@f248.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <1F8E8175D19E4A00973949B9A47B06D5@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi All:

In the dark world of corporate computer companies the question is asked,
"Does Apple really assign engineers to ?fake? projects as a loyalty test?"

It does appear so as security could be no higher than that of a top military
facility according to the following article.

http://arstechnica.com/apple/2013/02/does-apple-really-assign-engineers-to-f
ake-projects-as-a-loyalty-test/

A soon to be spy intrigue thriller from author John le Carr?

Jim



From accessd at shaw.ca  Mon Feb 18 19:12:20 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 17:12:20 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] The meteorite
In-Reply-To: <1F8E8175D19E4A00973949B9A47B06D5@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru><1361230285.892642442@f297.mail.ru><2E832DC531224E15A51FF6EF5EBC4B47@creativesystemdesigns.com><1361232565.31963339@f248.mail.ru>
	<1F8E8175D19E4A00973949B9A47B06D5@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <D32A45EE71384E9C9CC429B2974A10DF@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi All:

Reconstructing the Chelyabinsk meteor's path, with Google Earth, YouTube and
high-school math... a very interesting article:

http://ogleearth.com/2013/02/reconstructing-the-chelyabinsk-meteors-path-wit
h-google-earth-youtube-and-high-school-math/

According to some:

"NASA has revised their size and energy estimates for the Russia meteor upon
review of further data. Scientists now believe the small asteroid was about
17 meters, or 55 feet, in diameter and had a mass of 10,000 tons. The
revised estimate of energy unleashed by the meteor is about 500 kilotons,
more than 30 times the blast yield of the atomic bomb dropped on Hiroshima."

A very impressive world event.

Jim


From rockysmolin at bchacc.com  Mon Feb 18 19:15:08 2013
From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 17:15:08 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Remove follow up item
In-Reply-To: <A84A6D608AF3437CBF9243A25FC2DE02@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <5B8D3DC9E80E4FF1AC6F032E58E259D5@HAL9007><DB6DCF80023B4A5CB9C2D7E5F56FA9DF@HAL9007>
	<A84A6D608AF3437CBF9243A25FC2DE02@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <24D350FE72A84654BCC0E06125813ED2@HAL9007>

I can't. It's too embarrassingly simple.

(sigh) Ok, right click the item and in the context menu that pos up click
Follow Up and then Clear Flag.

RTFM (where M = Menu)

R


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 3:19 PM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Remove follow up item

Hi Rocky:

Well, post it...don't leave us in the lurch. ;-)

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 2:52 PM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Remove follow up item

Never mind - found it.

R 

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 2:16 PM
To: List
Subject: [dba-Tech] Remove follow up item

Dear List:
 
Does anyone know how to remove an item from the follow up folder without
deleting it from the follow up folder which also deletes the email from its
original location?
 
MTIA
 
Rocky Smolin
Beach Access Software
858-259-4334
www.bchacc.com <http://www.bchacc.com/> www.e-z-mrp.com
<http://www.e-z-mrp.com/>
Skype: rocky.smolin
 
_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From rockysmolin at bchacc.com  Mon Feb 18 19:17:55 2013
From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 17:17:55 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] The question being asked..,
In-Reply-To: <1F8E8175D19E4A00973949B9A47B06D5@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru><1361230285.892642442@f297.mail.ru><2E832DC531224E15A51FF6EF5EBC4B47@creativesystemdesigns.com><1361232565.31963339@f248.mail.ru>
	<1F8E8175D19E4A00973949B9A47B06D5@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <F8AFAD05E82643D8A5486C2B3D187F5E@HAL9007>

The answer is...apparently not.

R 

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 4:47 PM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: [dba-Tech] The question being asked..,

Hi All:

In the dark world of corporate computer companies the question is asked,
"Does Apple really assign engineers to ?fake? projects as a loyalty test?"

It does appear so as security could be no higher than that of a top military
facility according to the following article.

http://arstechnica.com/apple/2013/02/does-apple-really-assign-engineers-to-f
ake-projects-as-a-loyalty-test/

A soon to be spy intrigue thriller from author John le Carr?

Jim


_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From accessd at shaw.ca  Mon Feb 18 19:47:34 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 17:47:34 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] HTML5 App Porter Tool - BETA
In-Reply-To: <D32A45EE71384E9C9CC429B2974A10DF@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru><1361230285.892642442@f297.mail.ru><2E832DC531224E15A51FF6EF5EBC4B47@creativesystemdesigns.com><1361232565.31963339@f248.mail.ru><1F8E8175D19E4A00973949B9A47B06D5@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<D32A45EE71384E9C9CC429B2974A10DF@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <D9B03AFCDE064656BCACEC3754801F5C@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi All:

Here is a very interesting new product that might allow developers to port
iOS native apps into HTML5 apps for porting and developing to other
platforms.

According to the description it helps in the translation of the following
artifacts:

1. Objective-C* (and a subset of C) source code into JavaScript.

2. iOS* API types and calls into JavaScript/HTML5 objects and calls.

3. Layouts of views inside Xcode* Interface Builder (XIB) files into HTML +
CSS files.

4. Xcode* project files into Microsoft* Visual Studio* 2012 projects.

The application is essentially a source-to-source translator that can handle
a number of conversions from Objective-C* into JavaScript/HTML5 including
the translation of APIs calls. A number of open source projects are used as
foundation for the conversion including a modified version of Clang
front-end, LayerD framework and jQuery Mobile* for widgets rendering in the
translated source code.

A very interesting and detailed description is also provided. I am sure that
similar products will be used to translate all the native apps, regardless
of the platform on which they have been originally designed.

Jim


From accessd at shaw.ca  Mon Feb 18 19:51:56 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 17:51:56 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] The question being asked..,
In-Reply-To: <F8AFAD05E82643D8A5486C2B3D187F5E@HAL9007>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru><1361230285.892642442@f297.mail.ru><2E832DC531224E15A51FF6EF5EBC4B47@creativesystemdesigns.com><1361232565.31963339@f248.mail.ru><1F8E8175D19E4A00973949B9A47B06D5@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<F8AFAD05E82643D8A5486C2B3D187F5E@HAL9007>
Message-ID: <F252716B205B4AD1A11119DAFE3231EA@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Rocky:

OK, so I exaggerated a bit about a soon to be released spy intrigue thriller
from author John le Carr?. ;-)

Actually the story has been released in a expose book from some author just
looking to make some pin money for next Christmas.

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 5:18 PM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] The question being asked..,

The answer is...apparently not.

R 

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 4:47 PM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: [dba-Tech] The question being asked..,

Hi All:

In the dark world of corporate computer companies the question is asked,
"Does Apple really assign engineers to ?fake? projects as a loyalty test?"

It does appear so as security could be no higher than that of a top military
facility according to the following article.

http://arstechnica.com/apple/2013/02/does-apple-really-assign-engineers-to-f
ake-projects-as-a-loyalty-test/

A soon to be spy intrigue thriller from author John le Carr?

Jim


_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From accessd at shaw.ca  Mon Feb 18 19:56:47 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 17:56:47 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Remove follow up item
In-Reply-To: <24D350FE72A84654BCC0E06125813ED2@HAL9007>
References: <5B8D3DC9E80E4FF1AC6F032E58E259D5@HAL9007><DB6DCF80023B4A5CB9C2D7E5F56FA9DF@HAL9007><A84A6D608AF3437CBF9243A25FC2DE02@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<24D350FE72A84654BCC0E06125813ED2@HAL9007>
Message-ID: <5DDC7E97AA054C9C823594D254C925DE@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Rocky:

...And that is unusual...because? 

I try to limit such adventures myself to once a day and try never to repeat
one. ;-)

Thanks Rocky.

Jim 

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 5:15 PM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Remove follow up item

I can't. It's too embarrassingly simple.

(sigh) Ok, right click the item and in the context menu that pos up click
Follow Up and then Clear Flag.

RTFM (where M = Menu)

R


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 3:19 PM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Remove follow up item

Hi Rocky:

Well, post it...don't leave us in the lurch. ;-)

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 2:52 PM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Remove follow up item

Never mind - found it.

R 

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 2:16 PM
To: List
Subject: [dba-Tech] Remove follow up item

Dear List:
 
Does anyone know how to remove an item from the follow up folder without
deleting it from the follow up folder which also deletes the email from its
original location?
 
MTIA
 
Rocky Smolin
Beach Access Software
858-259-4334
www.bchacc.com <http://www.bchacc.com/> www.e-z-mrp.com
<http://www.e-z-mrp.com/>
Skype: rocky.smolin
 
_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From hans.andersen at phulse.com  Mon Feb 18 20:59:59 2013
From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 18:59:59 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] HTML5 App Porter Tool - BETA
In-Reply-To: <D9B03AFCDE064656BCACEC3754801F5C@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru>
	<1361230285.892642442@f297.mail.ru>
	<2E832DC531224E15A51FF6EF5EBC4B47@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<1361232565.31963339@f248.mail.ru>
	<1F8E8175D19E4A00973949B9A47B06D5@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<D32A45EE71384E9C9CC429B2974A10DF@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<D9B03AFCDE064656BCACEC3754801F5C@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <C2695245-C89A-403A-B016-2DCFAAE85BA9@phulse.com>

Nice! I will bookmark this for later.

- Hans



On 2013-02-18, at 5:47 PM, "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:

> Hi All:
> 
> Here is a very interesting new product that might allow developers to port
> iOS native apps into HTML5 apps for porting and developing to other
> platforms.
> 
> According to the description it helps in the translation of the following
> artifacts:
> 
> 1. Objective-C* (and a subset of C) source code into JavaScript.
> 
> 2. iOS* API types and calls into JavaScript/HTML5 objects and calls.
> 
> 3. Layouts of views inside Xcode* Interface Builder (XIB) files into HTML +
> CSS files.
> 
> 4. Xcode* project files into Microsoft* Visual Studio* 2012 projects.
> 
> The application is essentially a source-to-source translator that can handle
> a number of conversions from Objective-C* into JavaScript/HTML5 including
> the translation of APIs calls. A number of open source projects are used as
> foundation for the conversion including a modified version of Clang
> front-end, LayerD framework and jQuery Mobile* for widgets rendering in the
> translated source code.
> 
> A very interesting and detailed description is also provided. I am sure that
> similar products will be used to translate all the native apps, regardless
> of the platform on which they have been originally designed.
> 
> Jim
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From accessd at shaw.ca  Mon Feb 18 21:44:46 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 19:44:46 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] HTML5 App Porter Tool - BETA
In-Reply-To: <C2695245-C89A-403A-B016-2DCFAAE85BA9@phulse.com>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru><1361230285.892642442@f297.mail.ru><2E832DC531224E15A51FF6EF5EBC4B47@creativesystemdesigns.com><1361232565.31963339@f248.mail.ru><1F8E8175D19E4A00973949B9A47B06D5@creativesystemdesigns.com><D32A45EE71384E9C9CC429B2974A10DF@creativesystemdesigns.com><D9B03AFCDE064656BCACEC3754801F5C@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<C2695245-C89A-403A-B016-2DCFAAE85BA9@phulse.com>
Message-ID: <5573EAE510DB4D13AB9DA53001E59416@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Hans:

I think I forgot the link. ;-(

http://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/technical-reference-intel-html5-app
-porter-tool-beta

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian
Andersen
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 7:00 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] HTML5 App Porter Tool - BETA

Nice! I will bookmark this for later.

- Hans



On 2013-02-18, at 5:47 PM, "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:

> Hi All:
> 
> Here is a very interesting new product that might allow developers to port
> iOS native apps into HTML5 apps for porting and developing to other
> platforms.
> 
> According to the description it helps in the translation of the following
> artifacts:
> 
> 1. Objective-C* (and a subset of C) source code into JavaScript.
> 
> 2. iOS* API types and calls into JavaScript/HTML5 objects and calls.
> 
> 3. Layouts of views inside Xcode* Interface Builder (XIB) files into HTML
+
> CSS files.
> 
> 4. Xcode* project files into Microsoft* Visual Studio* 2012 projects.
> 
> The application is essentially a source-to-source translator that can
handle
> a number of conversions from Objective-C* into JavaScript/HTML5 including
> the translation of APIs calls. A number of open source projects are used
as
> foundation for the conversion including a modified version of Clang
> front-end, LayerD framework and jQuery Mobile* for widgets rendering in
the
> translated source code.
> 
> A very interesting and detailed description is also provided. I am sure
that
> similar products will be used to translate all the native apps, regardless
> of the platform on which they have been originally designed.
> 
> Jim
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From john at winhaven.net  Tue Feb 19 00:31:57 2013
From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 00:31:57 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] Interesting web page
Message-ID: <000e01ce0e6a$d1918420$74b48c60$@winhaven.net>

http://color.hailpixel.com/

just move your mouse around.


From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Tue Feb 19 03:35:34 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 13:35:34 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech]
 =?utf-8?q?FYI=3A_Moving_to_=22nirvana=22=3A_if_Microso?=
 =?utf-8?q?ft_were_to_shift_to_WebKit=2C_you_can_thank_Opera=2E?=
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru>
	<1361231819.663879051@f248.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <1361266534.681867373@f289.mail.ru>

 Hi Hans --

Thank you for your reply.

I suppose this thread brought me and I hope you and others some useful information, I can provide my arguments on your notes quoted here?but as you've just remarked, we're going cycles, and I suppose seems to hardly hear each other sometimes, so to not get this thread into "trolling mode" I'd propose to "stop cycling" now.?

Just a note on C# and Java being the only general purpose languages :) - No, I do not think so. They are not. And Python is a very broadly used general purpose language of course.

As for the difference of implementations on lamda-expressions and LINQ in C# and Python - I meant C# has *currently* more powerful implementation - here is a "proof-link":

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3925093/pythons-list-comprehension-vs-net-linq

Yes, as far as I see C# has got lamdas after Python -? http://sayspy.blogspot.ru/2006/02/why-python-doesnt-need-something-like.html ?.

"net positive vs. net negative for IE" + Web Browser Automation/API (e.g. for developing hybrid apps) + Trident engine 'to be or not to be': that seems to be the points we can hardly agree so as I have noted above we should better stop this thread.

Thank you.

-- Shamil

???????????, 18 ??????? 2013, 16:44 -08:00 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen <hans.andersen at phulse.com>:
>> Yes, lambda-expressions were originated in LISP (and before that defined
>in relational calculus AFAIKR) but C# was the first general purpose
>language where lambda-expressions were implemented in "full power", wasn't
>it? Also C# LINQ has "dialects" to manipulate objects, XML, SQL databases,
>... - and it has an open specification, which can be used to develop LINQ
>providers for any type of (structured) data. And its features as lazy
>evaluation, composition, parallel execution are if not unique but were the
>first, which were implemented in the general purpose language. Have they
>been implemented already in Java?
>
>So, are you saying that as far as you are concerned, the only general
>purpose languages are Java and C# ? As far as I'm aware, Python is a much
>more popular language than C# and it has had lambda expressions since
>before C#.
>
>Aside from the java stuff (not sure what your meaning in bringing this up
>is), are you trying to say that Microsoft has done some things in the past
>that has eventually resulted in some good things? I'm not saying they
>haven't, just as the same is true for Apple and Google and Sun, etc, but I
>don't think that changes anything regarding the net positive vs the net
>negative of IE.
>
>> OK, but this statement doesn't explain anyhow why "Webkit monoculture"
>would be better in long run than "Microsoft desktop dominance in 90-es,
>first part of 00-es", does it?
>
>> By "boring flat unified plateau" I meant "WebKit everywhere".
>
>> As for "cross-platform standards" - AFAIS Trident engine is getting very
>close to conform them now.
>
>This is a straw man argument, so I'm not going to address it other than to
>say that I haven't ever said webkit should be used everywhere (if you refer
>to my previous emails in this thread) nor do I think it should be.
>
>> OK - but googling by exact phrase  'IE 10 Web Browser Automation'  isn't
>relevant way of getting information on how often "Microsoft (Internet
>Explorer) Web Browser (control) Automation" subject is mentioned on web
>sites.
>
>I'm not understanding your point here, so I want to avoid us going around
>in circles. What I said was that googling the aforementioned doesn't
>indicate to me that this is a terribly important component in general. And,
>in any event, I did say that MS can remedy this in several ways:
>
>- Release 2 versions of IE: IE modern and IE classic
>
>- Update the Web Browser Automation whatever code to work with their new
>WebKit implementation (I honestly don't see why this is an issue, it's not
>like MS doesn't update Trident in ways that break old code)
>
>- Selenium and such third party tools already have web drivers for WebKit
>(chrome/safari), so for them to implement it in IE modern is trivial
>
>Cheers
>
>
>*
>
>Hans-Christian Andersen
>**Web Application Developer, Vancouver, Canada*
>
>
>E:  hans at phulse.com
>T: +44 (0)20 7193 7841
>L:  http://uk.linkedin.com/in/andersenhc
>http://www.nokenode.com/
>
>*Unique Gifts, Collectables, Artwork*
>*Come one, come all to.... * www.corinnajasmine.com
<<< skipped >>>
>

From df.waters at comcast.net  Tue Feb 19 07:34:48 2013
From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 07:34:48 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] Interesting web page
In-Reply-To: <000e01ce0e6a$d1918420$74b48c60$@winhaven.net>
References: <000e01ce0e6a$d1918420$74b48c60$@winhaven.net>
Message-ID: <001f01ce0ea5$e38c79b0$aaa56d10$@comcast.net>

Nice!

If you click anywhere on screen, it saves the current color as a column on
the left side.  Then you can modify the new column on the right side so you
have a side by side comparison of the two colors along with their color
codes.  


Dan

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 12:32 AM
To: DBA-Tech; dba-ot at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: [dba-Tech] Interesting web page

http://color.hailpixel.com/

just move your mouse around.

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From accessd at shaw.ca  Tue Feb 19 10:36:24 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 08:36:24 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Duckduckgo
In-Reply-To: <1361266534.681867373@f289.mail.ru>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru><1361231819.663879051@f248.mail.ru>
	<1361266534.681867373@f289.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <EBF960D2330B46528A93A2014E0BF6F3@creativesystemdesigns.com>

For the last week or so I have been using the Duckduckgo search engine to
find information I need.

It seems to provide all the information the Google does but it runs faster
(debatable) and is very customizable. (https://duckduckgo.com/settings) It
has all sorts of interesting features as it has taken the best from Yahoo,
Google, Bing and Wolframalpha and left the rest.
(https://duckduckgo.com/goodies)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DuckDuckGo

The most of the application is OSS running on Inginx and Linux/FreeBSD and
believe-it-or-not is written the flavour of Perl (with full parallel
processing capabilities), JavaScript and it is Cloud based expandable.
(https://github.com/duckduckgo) There is multiple sources that describe the
application and it components but the trouble is each one says something
different, so who knows.

The application has grown extremely popular as it does not save data on
anyone's searches, in otherwards gives all user complete privacy. Users
wouldn't have to worry about whether a government is demanding information
to support a court case against you or your friends or the site has been
hacked and you personal information has been stolen.

Here is a description of the site, in their own words: 
https://duckduckgo.com/about

The activity of the site has grown from 250K a month, last August to one
million hits a day. Even Google has made it possible to add the Duckduckgo
search engine to Chrome, as a plug-in.

I did not think I would initially like the program enough but I find it very
adaptable, full of features and can see it becoming my main search engine. 

https://duckduckgo.com/

Jim


From accessd at shaw.ca  Tue Feb 19 11:00:05 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 09:00:05 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] WriteLatex
In-Reply-To: <EBF960D2330B46528A93A2014E0BF6F3@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru><1361231819.663879051@f248.mail.ru><1361266534.681867373@f289.mail.ru>
	<EBF960D2330B46528A93A2014E0BF6F3@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <42E263B4F90C4D9287B03F8EE2B75DAD@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi All:

Here is an interesting collaborative writing and authoring tool.

https://www.writelatex.com/

Jim


From hans.andersen at phulse.com  Tue Feb 19 11:28:38 2013
From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 09:28:38 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Duckduckgo
In-Reply-To: <EBF960D2330B46528A93A2014E0BF6F3@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru>
	<1361231819.663879051@f248.mail.ru>
	<1361266534.681867373@f289.mail.ru>
	<EBF960D2330B46528A93A2014E0BF6F3@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <EA5A1A8D-9F9A-44F3-A6DA-2BF2C7886710@phulse.com>

Hi jim,

Duckduckgo is pretty cool. Good to see that it's user base has grown throughout the years.

However, and I don't mean to be pedantic, but I've seen you make this mistake a few times (maybe its your spell checker?) and I just wanted to let you know that Inginx is in fact spelled Nginx (there's no 'i' in front).

:)

- Hans



On 2013-02-19, at 8:36 AM, "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:

> For the last week or so I have been using the Duckduckgo search engine to
> find information I need.
> 
> It seems to provide all the information the Google does but it runs faster
> (debatable) and is very customizable. (https://duckduckgo.com/settings) It
> has all sorts of interesting features as it has taken the best from Yahoo,
> Google, Bing and Wolframalpha and left the rest.
> (https://duckduckgo.com/goodies)
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DuckDuckGo
> 
> The most of the application is OSS running on Inginx and Linux/FreeBSD and
> believe-it-or-not is written the flavour of Perl (with full parallel
> processing capabilities), JavaScript and it is Cloud based expandable.
> (https://github.com/duckduckgo) There is multiple sources that describe the
> application and it components but the trouble is each one says something
> different, so who knows.
> 
> The application has grown extremely popular as it does not save data on
> anyone's searches, in otherwards gives all user complete privacy. Users
> wouldn't have to worry about whether a government is demanding information
> to support a court case against you or your friends or the site has been
> hacked and you personal information has been stolen.
> 
> Here is a description of the site, in their own words: 
> https://duckduckgo.com/about
> 
> The activity of the site has grown from 250K a month, last August to one
> million hits a day. Even Google has made it possible to add the Duckduckgo
> search engine to Chrome, as a plug-in.
> 
> I did not think I would initially like the program enough but I find it very
> adaptable, full of features and can see it becoming my main search engine. 
> 
> https://duckduckgo.com/
> 
> Jim
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From gustav at cactus.dk  Tue Feb 19 11:47:09 2013
From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 18:47:09 +0100
Subject: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day
Message-ID: <017001ce0ec9$243ff630$6cbfe290$@cactus.dk>

Hi all

More than 30 years ago when in the audio business, two of our clients -
audio-visual producers - asked for new top-notch monitor speakers for their
studios. We toured several suppliers listening to the well-known brands,
quite expensive, and then we stopped by at Technics as they had gained much
attention due to a major lift in quality.
That settled it. I still recall how we listened carefully to our selection
of "difficult" music but our real test was the reproduction of high-quality
recorded human voice which is far more difficult to reproduce than most are
aware of. There was no doubt - the SB-7000 speakers with the
phase-correcting speaker alignment were convincing and the price couldn't be
matched:

  http://www.thevintageknob.org/technics-SB-7000.html

At that time I neither had the money nor the space for such speakers but
ever since I've dreamed of obtaining a set of these. By pure accident,
Saturday I browsed a local second-hand site, and there they were, right in
front of me on the screen, at a bargain price - and I have the room. Through
the years I have struggled with some compact wife-friendly speakers - very
good of course, but still - nothing beats a 15" high-quality speaker (except
an 18" but they are so rare).

Now, this set could really be anything - burned out units or misbehaved in
many ways. So I had to go and listen: I brought some music that can bring
down most systems and reveal any sort of misbehaviour: Chick Corea, My
Spanish Heart, and Miles Davis, Tutu, on CD:

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Spanish_Heart

It was like coming home! They reproduced perfectly and exactly like I had
imagined with the transparent and completely neutral sound I remembered.
They've two owners only, and no disco youngster had succeeded destroying
them.
So, today I picked them up and can hardly wait to get home and power them
up. Should this day come? From time to time I thought No and resigned ...
but today: Yes.

Through the years I've kept (some sort of intuition or instinct?) this
bright Sony amplifier to power them:

  http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-TA-N86B.html

Though I have quite decent equipment to feed this, I might be looking for
the matching preamp:

  http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-TA-E88B.html

But that's another story.

/gustav


From accessd at shaw.ca  Tue Feb 19 12:24:53 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 10:24:53 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day
In-Reply-To: <017001ce0ec9$243ff630$6cbfe290$@cactus.dk>
References: <017001ce0ec9$243ff630$6cbfe290$@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <3A9BA341ECBC42D4BDDB4FBC4CB7650C@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Congratulations.

There is nothing like a great sound system...something that those who only
listening to MP3s and the like will never truly understand. It also seems
you have the right music, with the right media to be able really appreciate
such a nice system. :-)

Enjoy

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 9:47 AM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day

Hi all

More than 30 years ago when in the audio business, two of our clients -
audio-visual producers - asked for new top-notch monitor speakers for their
studios. We toured several suppliers listening to the well-known brands,
quite expensive, and then we stopped by at Technics as they had gained much
attention due to a major lift in quality.
That settled it. I still recall how we listened carefully to our selection
of "difficult" music but our real test was the reproduction of high-quality
recorded human voice which is far more difficult to reproduce than most are
aware of. There was no doubt - the SB-7000 speakers with the
phase-correcting speaker alignment were convincing and the price couldn't be
matched:

  http://www.thevintageknob.org/technics-SB-7000.html

At that time I neither had the money nor the space for such speakers but
ever since I've dreamed of obtaining a set of these. By pure accident,
Saturday I browsed a local second-hand site, and there they were, right in
front of me on the screen, at a bargain price - and I have the room. Through
the years I have struggled with some compact wife-friendly speakers - very
good of course, but still - nothing beats a 15" high-quality speaker (except
an 18" but they are so rare).

Now, this set could really be anything - burned out units or misbehaved in
many ways. So I had to go and listen: I brought some music that can bring
down most systems and reveal any sort of misbehaviour: Chick Corea, My
Spanish Heart, and Miles Davis, Tutu, on CD:

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Spanish_Heart

It was like coming home! They reproduced perfectly and exactly like I had
imagined with the transparent and completely neutral sound I remembered.
They've two owners only, and no disco youngster had succeeded destroying
them.
So, today I picked them up and can hardly wait to get home and power them
up. Should this day come? From time to time I thought No and resigned ...
but today: Yes.

Through the years I've kept (some sort of intuition or instinct?) this
bright Sony amplifier to power them:

  http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-TA-N86B.html

Though I have quite decent equipment to feed this, I might be looking for
the matching preamp:

  http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-TA-E88B.html

But that's another story.

/gustav

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From accessd at shaw.ca  Tue Feb 19 12:27:05 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 10:27:05 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Duckduckgo
In-Reply-To: <EA5A1A8D-9F9A-44F3-A6DA-2BF2C7886710@phulse.com>
References: <1360828152.629178103@f335.mail.ru><1361231819.663879051@f248.mail.ru><1361266534.681867373@f289.mail.ru><EBF960D2330B46528A93A2014E0BF6F3@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<EA5A1A8D-9F9A-44F3-A6DA-2BF2C7886710@phulse.com>
Message-ID: <5C8F49FA327A468E9B2104C46AB61E32@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Hans:

It is because I have been hearing so much about Apple lately that I am
starting to think every product is prefexed with an "i". ;-)

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian
Andersen
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 9:29 AM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Duckduckgo

Hi jim,

Duckduckgo is pretty cool. Good to see that it's user base has grown
throughout the years.

However, and I don't mean to be pedantic, but I've seen you make this
mistake a few times (maybe its your spell checker?) and I just wanted to let
you know that Inginx is in fact spelled Nginx (there's no 'i' in front).

:)

- Hans



On 2013-02-19, at 8:36 AM, "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:

> For the last week or so I have been using the Duckduckgo search engine to
> find information I need.
> 
> It seems to provide all the information the Google does but it runs faster
> (debatable) and is very customizable. (https://duckduckgo.com/settings) It
> has all sorts of interesting features as it has taken the best from Yahoo,
> Google, Bing and Wolframalpha and left the rest.
> (https://duckduckgo.com/goodies)
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DuckDuckGo
> 
> The most of the application is OSS running on Inginx and Linux/FreeBSD and
> believe-it-or-not is written the flavour of Perl (with full parallel
> processing capabilities), JavaScript and it is Cloud based expandable.
> (https://github.com/duckduckgo) There is multiple sources that describe
the
> application and it components but the trouble is each one says something
> different, so who knows.
> 
> The application has grown extremely popular as it does not save data on
> anyone's searches, in otherwards gives all user complete privacy. Users
> wouldn't have to worry about whether a government is demanding information
> to support a court case against you or your friends or the site has been
> hacked and you personal information has been stolen.
> 
> Here is a description of the site, in their own words: 
> https://duckduckgo.com/about
> 
> The activity of the site has grown from 250K a month, last August to one
> million hits a day. Even Google has made it possible to add the Duckduckgo
> search engine to Chrome, as a plug-in.
> 
> I did not think I would initially like the program enough but I find it
very
> adaptable, full of features and can see it becoming my main search engine.

> 
> https://duckduckgo.com/
> 
> Jim
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From accessd at shaw.ca  Tue Feb 19 12:50:21 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 10:50:21 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] New life for Windows8 RT
In-Reply-To: <017001ce0ec9$243ff630$6cbfe290$@cactus.dk>
References: <017001ce0ec9$243ff630$6cbfe290$@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <28E55C72A30B451E9B7EFE061757AC47@creativesystemdesigns.com>

It looks like a third party hacker has produced a product that may resurrect
Windows 8 RT laptops potential and falling sales.

Business has largely ignored the RT version as it does not support x86
applications. Major businesses migrate from one technology at a slow pace.
It takes millions of dollar to move their huge libraries of business
products from one platform to another...it will take much longer to re-write
all their applications (...and most likely all these products will be
translated to the Web/Cloud when they are re-written)...so to what
advantage, other than reduced power usage?

Many developers may have bought these Windows 8 RT laptops but few other
disciplines have bothered, as there is now, just not any products available
for this platform. 

This appears to have now changed as a hacker has produced an emulator. 

The program was initially created so the fellow could run his games on the
computer. It is still in beta mode but now, with additional assistance a
stable product may be on the market soon. At that time it will be a perfect
tool to demonstrate to company management the viability of this platform.

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2095934

The video to say the least is cruddy but it does demonstrate the potential:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uzjV406nVs&feature=youtu.be

Jim  


From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Tue Feb 19 15:33:04 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 01:33:04 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech] =?utf-8?q?OT=3A_A_big_day?=
In-Reply-To: <017001ce0ec9$243ff630$6cbfe290$@cactus.dk>
References: <017001ce0ec9$243ff630$6cbfe290$@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <1361309584.909221223@f12.mail.ru>


Congratulations, Gustav!
Have you got home? I suppose

- "Shine On You Crazy Diamond" by Pink Floyd, 
- "Child in Time" by Deep Purple and 
- "July Morning" by Uriah Heep should also sound great on your vintage acoustic?system.?
I wish I were there! :)

-- Shamil

???????, 19 ??????? 2013, 18:47 +01:00 ?? "Gustav Brock" <gustav at cactus.dk>:
>Hi all
>
>More than 30 years ago when in the audio business, two of our clients -
>audio-visual producers - asked for new top-notch monitor speakers for their
>studios. We toured several suppliers listening to the well-known brands,
>quite expensive, and then we stopped by at Technics as they had gained much
>attention due to a major lift in quality.
>That settled it. I still recall how we listened carefully to our selection
>of "difficult" music but our real test was the reproduction of high-quality
>recorded human voice which is far more difficult to reproduce than most are
>aware of. There was no doubt - the SB-7000 speakers with the
>phase-correcting speaker alignment were convincing and the price couldn't be
>matched:
>
>?? http://www.thevintageknob.org/technics-SB-7000.html
>
>At that time I neither had the money nor the space for such speakers but
>ever since I've dreamed of obtaining a set of these. By pure accident,
>Saturday I browsed a local second-hand site, and there they were, right in
>front of me on the screen, at a bargain price - and I have the room. Through
>the years I have struggled with some compact wife-friendly speakers - very
>good of course, but still - nothing beats a 15" high-quality speaker (except
>an 18" but they are so rare).
>
>Now, this set could really be anything - burned out units or misbehaved in
>many ways. So I had to go and listen: I brought some music that can bring
>down most systems and reveal any sort of misbehaviour: Chick Corea, My
>Spanish Heart, and Miles Davis, Tutu, on CD:
>
>?? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Spanish_Heart
>
>It was like coming home! They reproduced perfectly and exactly like I had
>imagined with the transparent and completely neutral sound I remembered.
>They've two owners only, and no disco youngster had succeeded destroying
>them.
>So, today I picked them up and can hardly wait to get home and power them
>up. Should this day come? From time to time I thought No and resigned ...
>but today: Yes.
>
>Through the years I've kept (some sort of intuition or instinct?) this
>bright Sony amplifier to power them:
>
>?? http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-TA-N86B.html
>
>Though I have quite decent equipment to feed this, I might be looking for
>the matching preamp:
>
>?? http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-TA-E88B.html
>
>But that's another story.
>
>/gustav
>
>


From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Tue Feb 19 16:07:54 2013
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 08:07:54 +1000
Subject: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day
In-Reply-To: <017001ce0ec9$243ff630$6cbfe290$@cactus.dk>
References: <017001ce0ec9$243ff630$6cbfe290$@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <5123F7BA.10816.3D2F4412@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

Once upon a time I would have been very envious of you,  but my gunner'ear* means that I 
can no longer appreciate the nuances of high quality audio  :-(

-- 
Stuart

* loss of high range hearing in particular as the result of too many years of gunfire with 
inadequate or no ear protection.



On 19 Feb 2013 at 18:47, Gustav Brock wrote:

> Hi all
> 
> More than 30 years ago when in the audio business, two of our clients -
> audio-visual producers - asked for new top-notch monitor speakers for their
> studios. We toured several suppliers listening to the well-known brands,
> quite expensive, and then we stopped by at Technics as they had gained much
> attention due to a major lift in quality.
> That settled it. I still recall how we listened carefully to our selection
> of "difficult" music but our real test was the reproduction of high-quality
> recorded human voice which is far more difficult to reproduce than most are
> aware of. There was no doubt - the SB-7000 speakers with the
> phase-correcting speaker alignment were convincing and the price couldn't be
> matched:
> 
>   http://www.thevintageknob.org/technics-SB-7000.html
> 
> At that time I neither had the money nor the space for such speakers but
> ever since I've dreamed of obtaining a set of these. By pure accident,
> Saturday I browsed a local second-hand site, and there they were, right in
> front of me on the screen, at a bargain price - and I have the room. Through
> the years I have struggled with some compact wife-friendly speakers - very
> good of course, but still - nothing beats a 15" high-quality speaker (except
> an 18" but they are so rare).
> 
> Now, this set could really be anything - burned out units or misbehaved in
> many ways. So I had to go and listen: I brought some music that can bring
> down most systems and reveal any sort of misbehaviour: Chick Corea, My
> Spanish Heart, and Miles Davis, Tutu, on CD:
> 
>   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Spanish_Heart
> 
> It was like coming home! They reproduced perfectly and exactly like I had
> imagined with the transparent and completely neutral sound I remembered.
> They've two owners only, and no disco youngster had succeeded destroying
> them.
> So, today I picked them up and can hardly wait to get home and power them
> up. Should this day come? From time to time I thought No and resigned ...
> but today: Yes.
> 
> Through the years I've kept (some sort of intuition or instinct?) this
> bright Sony amplifier to power them:
> 
>   http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-TA-N86B.html
> 
> Though I have quite decent equipment to feed this, I might be looking for
> the matching preamp:
> 
>   http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-TA-E88B.html
> 
> But that's another story.
> 
> /gustav
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 



From tinanfields at torchlake.com  Tue Feb 19 16:12:21 2013
From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 17:12:21 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day
In-Reply-To: <017001ce0ec9$243ff630$6cbfe290$@cactus.dk>
References: <017001ce0ec9$243ff630$6cbfe290$@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <5123F8C5.8010801@torchlake.com>

Bravo Gustav.  How wonderful to have top grade sound system!
T

Tina Norris Fields
tinanfields at torchlake.com
231-322-2787

On 2/19/2013 12:47 PM, Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi all
>
> More than 30 years ago when in the audio business, two of our clients -
> audio-visual producers - asked for new top-notch monitor speakers for their
> studios. We toured several suppliers listening to the well-known brands,
> quite expensive, and then we stopped by at Technics as they had gained much
> attention due to a major lift in quality.
> That settled it. I still recall how we listened carefully to our selection
> of "difficult" music but our real test was the reproduction of high-quality
> recorded human voice which is far more difficult to reproduce than most are
> aware of. There was no doubt - the SB-7000 speakers with the
> phase-correcting speaker alignment were convincing and the price couldn't be
> matched:
>
>    http://www.thevintageknob.org/technics-SB-7000.html
>
> At that time I neither had the money nor the space for such speakers but
> ever since I've dreamed of obtaining a set of these. By pure accident,
> Saturday I browsed a local second-hand site, and there they were, right in
> front of me on the screen, at a bargain price - and I have the room. Through
> the years I have struggled with some compact wife-friendly speakers - very
> good of course, but still - nothing beats a 15" high-quality speaker (except
> an 18" but they are so rare).
>
> Now, this set could really be anything - burned out units or misbehaved in
> many ways. So I had to go and listen: I brought some music that can bring
> down most systems and reveal any sort of misbehaviour: Chick Corea, My
> Spanish Heart, and Miles Davis, Tutu, on CD:
>
>    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Spanish_Heart
>
> It was like coming home! They reproduced perfectly and exactly like I had
> imagined with the transparent and completely neutral sound I remembered.
> They've two owners only, and no disco youngster had succeeded destroying
> them.
> So, today I picked them up and can hardly wait to get home and power them
> up. Should this day come? From time to time I thought No and resigned ...
> but today: Yes.
>
> Through the years I've kept (some sort of intuition or instinct?) this
> bright Sony amplifier to power them:
>
>    http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-TA-N86B.html
>
> Though I have quite decent equipment to feed this, I might be looking for
> the matching preamp:
>
>    http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-TA-E88B.html
>
> But that's another story.
>
> /gustav
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>


From hans.andersen at phulse.com  Tue Feb 19 16:15:21 2013
From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 14:15:21 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] New life for Windows8 RT
In-Reply-To: <28E55C72A30B451E9B7EFE061757AC47@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <017001ce0ec9$243ff630$6cbfe290$@cactus.dk>
	<28E55C72A30B451E9B7EFE061757AC47@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <4EDCF321-B5BA-493D-87D1-4D6A74176EC9@phulse.com>

The promise of this emulator is a bit overstated. If you compare it to the wine project, you can immediately see the difficulty in this task. A lot of windows apps rely heavily on specific windows apis, many of which are no longer present on Windows RT, so if you are hoping for full compatibility and the ability to run any windows app, in afraid you will most certainly be out of luck.

- Hans



On 2013-02-19, at 10:50 AM, "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:

> It looks like a third party hacker has produced a product that may resurrect
> Windows 8 RT laptops potential and falling sales.
> 
> Business has largely ignored the RT version as it does not support x86
> applications. Major businesses migrate from one technology at a slow pace.
> It takes millions of dollar to move their huge libraries of business
> products from one platform to another...it will take much longer to re-write
> all their applications (...and most likely all these products will be
> translated to the Web/Cloud when they are re-written)...so to what
> advantage, other than reduced power usage?
> 
> Many developers may have bought these Windows 8 RT laptops but few other
> disciplines have bothered, as there is now, just not any products available
> for this platform. 
> 
> This appears to have now changed as a hacker has produced an emulator. 
> 
> The program was initially created so the fellow could run his games on the
> computer. It is still in beta mode but now, with additional assistance a
> stable product may be on the market soon. At that time it will be a perfect
> tool to demonstrate to company management the viability of this platform.
> 
> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2095934
> 
> The video to say the least is cruddy but it does demonstrate the potential:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uzjV406nVs&feature=youtu.be
> 
> Jim  
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From accessd at shaw.ca  Tue Feb 19 16:42:03 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 14:42:03 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] New life for Windows8 RT
In-Reply-To: <4EDCF321-B5BA-493D-87D1-4D6A74176EC9@phulse.com>
References: <017001ce0ec9$243ff630$6cbfe290$@cactus.dk><28E55C72A30B451E9B7EFE061757AC47@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<4EDCF321-B5BA-493D-87D1-4D6A74176EC9@phulse.com>
Message-ID: <EC8EE39277044F91B493E495DEAE758D@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Hans:

To be honest my expectation are very low but Windows 8 RT users need some
hope and maybe this is it. Now if the functionality of the new APIs does not
provide a full set of feature and Microsoft does not allow x86 32-64 APIs to
be imported or rebuilt this project will have a very short life span.

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian
Andersen
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 2:15 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] New life for Windows8 RT

The promise of this emulator is a bit overstated. If you compare it to the
wine project, you can immediately see the difficulty in this task. A lot of
windows apps rely heavily on specific windows apis, many of which are no
longer present on Windows RT, so if you are hoping for full compatibility
and the ability to run any windows app, in afraid you will most certainly be
out of luck.

- Hans



On 2013-02-19, at 10:50 AM, "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:

> It looks like a third party hacker has produced a product that may
resurrect
> Windows 8 RT laptops potential and falling sales.
> 
> Business has largely ignored the RT version as it does not support x86
> applications. Major businesses migrate from one technology at a slow pace.
> It takes millions of dollar to move their huge libraries of business
> products from one platform to another...it will take much longer to
re-write
> all their applications (...and most likely all these products will be
> translated to the Web/Cloud when they are re-written)...so to what
> advantage, other than reduced power usage?
> 
> Many developers may have bought these Windows 8 RT laptops but few other
> disciplines have bothered, as there is now, just not any products
available
> for this platform. 
> 
> This appears to have now changed as a hacker has produced an emulator. 
> 
> The program was initially created so the fellow could run his games on the
> computer. It is still in beta mode but now, with additional assistance a
> stable product may be on the market soon. At that time it will be a
perfect
> tool to demonstrate to company management the viability of this platform.
> 
> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2095934
> 
> The video to say the least is cruddy but it does demonstrate the
potential:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uzjV406nVs&feature=youtu.be
> 
> Jim  
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From hans.andersen at phulse.com  Tue Feb 19 19:59:53 2013
From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 17:59:53 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] New life for Windows8 RT
In-Reply-To: <EC8EE39277044F91B493E495DEAE758D@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <017001ce0ec9$243ff630$6cbfe290$@cactus.dk>
	<28E55C72A30B451E9B7EFE061757AC47@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<4EDCF321-B5BA-493D-87D1-4D6A74176EC9@phulse.com>
	<EC8EE39277044F91B493E495DEAE758D@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <1CB668DC-160C-4F3D-ACF4-E4FFEE3D4171@phulse.com>

That's what I'm worried about - that this guy is scratching his own itch, but its not enough to be what everyone wants it to be. That would need some commercial support and that's where it gets tricky.

- Hans


On 2013-02-19, at 2:42 PM, "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:

> Hi Hans:
> 
> To be honest my expectation are very low but Windows 8 RT users need some
> hope and maybe this is it. Now if the functionality of the new APIs does not
> provide a full set of feature and Microsoft does not allow x86 32-64 APIs to
> be imported or rebuilt this project will have a very short life span.
> 
> Jim
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian
> Andersen
> Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 2:15 PM
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] New life for Windows8 RT
> 
> The promise of this emulator is a bit overstated. If you compare it to the
> wine project, you can immediately see the difficulty in this task. A lot of
> windows apps rely heavily on specific windows apis, many of which are no
> longer present on Windows RT, so if you are hoping for full compatibility
> and the ability to run any windows app, in afraid you will most certainly be
> out of luck.
> 
> - Hans
> 
> 
> 
> On 2013-02-19, at 10:50 AM, "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:
> 
>> It looks like a third party hacker has produced a product that may
> resurrect
>> Windows 8 RT laptops potential and falling sales.
>> 
>> Business has largely ignored the RT version as it does not support x86
>> applications. Major businesses migrate from one technology at a slow pace.
>> It takes millions of dollar to move their huge libraries of business
>> products from one platform to another...it will take much longer to
> re-write
>> all their applications (...and most likely all these products will be
>> translated to the Web/Cloud when they are re-written)...so to what
>> advantage, other than reduced power usage?
>> 
>> Many developers may have bought these Windows 8 RT laptops but few other
>> disciplines have bothered, as there is now, just not any products
> available
>> for this platform. 
>> 
>> This appears to have now changed as a hacker has produced an emulator. 
>> 
>> The program was initially created so the fellow could run his games on the
>> computer. It is still in beta mode but now, with additional assistance a
>> stable product may be on the market soon. At that time it will be a
> perfect
>> tool to demonstrate to company management the viability of this platform.
>> 
>> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2095934
>> 
>> The video to say the least is cruddy but it does demonstrate the
> potential:
>> 
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uzjV406nVs&feature=youtu.be
>> 
>> Jim  
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> dba-Tech mailing list
>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From gustav at cactus.dk  Wed Feb 20 06:42:28 2013
From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 13:42:28 +0100
Subject: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day
Message-ID: <005f01ce0f67$be7cc860$3b765920$@cactus.dk>

Hi Jim

Thanks, I will.

MP3 - in its low sampling versions - is terrible but, I must admit, serves a
purpose. Listening to music on the street with traffic noise doesn't call
for true hi-fi even though it is possible. MP3 and WAV files can be very
good, and my wife has a pair of mid-range Sennheiser earphones which play
surprisingly well.

The real strange thing is, that broadcasted audio quality hasn't evolved a
single step for the last 40 years or so while technology has moved a quantum
leap going digital with DSPs and computer control and digital recording. DAB
radio listening could be excellent but most channels, even those with
classic music and public service, use limited sampling rates to save
bandwidth and compression of 3-6 dB or more to obtain a "sound wall paper"
suitable for cars and cheap players. Even transmissions from summit
meetings, where money and equipment cannot be an issue, carry most often an
awful sound. I just don't get it.

/gustav
 
-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Jim Lawrence
Sendt: 19. februar 2013 19:25
Til: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Emne: Re: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day

Congratulations.

There is nothing like a great sound system...something that those who only
listening to MP3s and the like will never truly understand. It also seems
you have the right music, with the right media to be able really appreciate
such a nice system. :-)

Enjoy

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 9:47 AM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day

Hi all

More than 30 years ago when in the audio business, two of our clients -
audio-visual producers - asked for new top-notch monitor speakers for their
studios. We toured several suppliers listening to the well-known brands,
quite expensive, and then we stopped by at Technics as they had gained much
attention due to a major lift in quality.
That settled it. I still recall how we listened carefully to our selection
of "difficult" music but our real test was the reproduction of high-quality
recorded human voice which is far more difficult to reproduce than most are
aware of. There was no doubt - the SB-7000 speakers with the
phase-correcting speaker alignment were convincing and the price couldn't be
matched:

  http://www.thevintageknob.org/technics-SB-7000.html

At that time I neither had the money nor the space for such speakers but
ever since I've dreamed of obtaining a set of these. By pure accident,
Saturday I browsed a local second-hand site, and there they were, right in
front of me on the screen, at a bargain price - and I have the room. Through
the years I have struggled with some compact wife-friendly speakers - very
good of course, but still - nothing beats a 15" high-quality speaker (except
an 18" but they are so rare).

Now, this set could really be anything - burned out units or misbehaved in
many ways. So I had to go and listen: I brought some music that can bring
down most systems and reveal any sort of misbehaviour: Chick Corea, My
Spanish Heart, and Miles Davis, Tutu, on CD:

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Spanish_Heart

It was like coming home! They reproduced perfectly and exactly like I had
imagined with the transparent and completely neutral sound I remembered.
They've two owners only, and no disco youngster had succeeded destroying
them.
So, today I picked them up and can hardly wait to get home and power them
up. Should this day come? From time to time I thought No and resigned ...
but today: Yes.

Through the years I've kept (some sort of intuition or instinct?) this
bright Sony amplifier to power them:

  http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-TA-N86B.html

Though I have quite decent equipment to feed this, I might be looking for
the matching preamp:

  http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-TA-E88B.html

But that's another story.

/gustav

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From gustav at cactus.dk  Wed Feb 20 06:48:50 2013
From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 13:48:50 +0100
Subject: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day
Message-ID: <006101ce0f68$a1bb38a0$e531a9e0$@cactus.dk>

Hi Shamil

Oh yes! 
I nearly had forgotten Uriah Heep. That would be on vinyl. I have a rack of boxes with my old vinyl, about 500 pieces, which I have refrained to listen to for years. They will get a new life now, though I'm not a vinyl fanatic. Actually, I prefer the CD with no cracks and clicks and their double playing time.

/gustav

-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Salakhetdinov Shamil
Sendt: 19. februar 2013 22:33
Til: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Emne: Re: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day


Congratulations, Gustav!
Have you got home? I suppose

- "Shine On You Crazy Diamond" by Pink Floyd,
- "Child in Time" by Deep Purple and
- "July Morning" by Uriah Heep should also sound great on your vintage acoustic system. I wish I were there! :)

-- Shamil

???????, 19 ??????? 2013, 18:47 +01:00 ?? "Gustav Brock" <gustav at cactus.dk>:
>Hi all
>
>More than 30 years ago when in the audio business, two of our clients - 
>audio-visual producers - asked for new top-notch monitor speakers for 
>their studios. We toured several suppliers listening to the well-known 
>brands, quite expensive, and then we stopped by at Technics as they had 
>gained much attention due to a major lift in quality.
>That settled it. I still recall how we listened carefully to our 
>selection of "difficult" music but our real test was the reproduction 
>of high-quality recorded human voice which is far more difficult to 
>reproduce than most are aware of. There was no doubt - the SB-7000 
>speakers with the phase-correcting speaker alignment were convincing 
>and the price couldn't be
>matched:
>
>   http://www.thevintageknob.org/technics-SB-7000.html
>
>At that time I neither had the money nor the space for such speakers 
>but ever since I've dreamed of obtaining a set of these. By pure 
>accident, Saturday I browsed a local second-hand site, and there they 
>were, right in front of me on the screen, at a bargain price - and I 
>have the room. Through the years I have struggled with some compact 
>wife-friendly speakers - very good of course, but still - nothing beats 
>a 15" high-quality speaker (except an 18" but they are so rare).
>
>Now, this set could really be anything - burned out units or misbehaved 
>in many ways. So I had to go and listen: I brought some music that can 
>bring down most systems and reveal any sort of misbehaviour: Chick 
>Corea, My Spanish Heart, and Miles Davis, Tutu, on CD:
>
>   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Spanish_Heart
>
>It was like coming home! They reproduced perfectly and exactly like I 
>had imagined with the transparent and completely neutral sound I remembered.
>They've two owners only, and no disco youngster had succeeded 
>destroying them.
>So, today I picked them up and can hardly wait to get home and power 
>them up. Should this day come? From time to time I thought No and resigned ...
>but today: Yes.
>
>Through the years I've kept (some sort of intuition or instinct?) this 
>bright Sony amplifier to power them:
>
>   http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-TA-N86B.html
>
>Though I have quite decent equipment to feed this, I might be looking 
>for the matching preamp:
>
>   http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-TA-E88B.html
>
>But that's another story.
>
>/gustav
>
>

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From gustav at cactus.dk  Wed Feb 20 06:55:09 2013
From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 13:55:09 +0100
Subject: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day
Message-ID: <006301ce0f69$83a53c70$8aefb550$@cactus.dk>

Hi Tina

So true, but quite often wife will be a prohibiting factor. My lovely Rita,
however, like to see me as a happy man, so no persuading was needed ...
well, if only she could get a new sofa. A low price to pay, so: Deal!

/gustav 

-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Tina Norris
Fields
Sendt: 19. februar 2013 23:12
Til: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Emne: Re: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day

Bravo Gustav.  How wonderful to have top grade sound system!
T

Tina Norris Fields
tinanfields at torchlake.com
231-322-2787

On 2/19/2013 12:47 PM, Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi all
>
> More than 30 years ago when in the audio business, two of our clients 
> - audio-visual producers - asked for new top-notch monitor speakers 
> for their studios. We toured several suppliers listening to the 
> well-known brands, quite expensive, and then we stopped by at Technics 
> as they had gained much attention due to a major lift in quality.
> That settled it. I still recall how we listened carefully to our 
> selection of "difficult" music but our real test was the reproduction 
> of high-quality recorded human voice which is far more difficult to 
> reproduce than most are aware of. There was no doubt - the SB-7000 
> speakers with the phase-correcting speaker alignment were convincing 
> and the price couldn't be
> matched:
>
>    http://www.thevintageknob.org/technics-SB-7000.html
>
> At that time I neither had the money nor the space for such speakers 
> but ever since I've dreamed of obtaining a set of these. By pure 
> accident, Saturday I browsed a local second-hand site, and there they 
> were, right in front of me on the screen, at a bargain price - and I 
> have the room. Through the years I have struggled with some compact 
> wife-friendly speakers - very good of course, but still - nothing 
> beats a 15" high-quality speaker (except an 18" but they are so rare).
>
> Now, this set could really be anything - burned out units or 
> misbehaved in many ways. So I had to go and listen: I brought some 
> music that can bring down most systems and reveal any sort of 
> misbehaviour: Chick Corea, My Spanish Heart, and Miles Davis, Tutu, on CD:
>
>    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Spanish_Heart
>
> It was like coming home! They reproduced perfectly and exactly like I 
> had imagined with the transparent and completely neutral sound I
remembered.
> They've two owners only, and no disco youngster had succeeded 
> destroying them.
> So, today I picked them up and can hardly wait to get home and power 
> them up. Should this day come? From time to time I thought No and resigned
...
> but today: Yes.
>
> Through the years I've kept (some sort of intuition or instinct?) this 
> bright Sony amplifier to power them:
>
>    http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-TA-N86B.html
>
> Though I have quite decent equipment to feed this, I might be looking 
> for the matching preamp:
>
>    http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-TA-E88B.html
>
> But that's another story.
>
> /gustav 




From df.waters at comcast.net  Wed Feb 20 07:00:08 2013
From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 07:00:08 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day
In-Reply-To: <005f01ce0f67$be7cc860$3b765920$@cactus.dk>
References: <005f01ce0f67$be7cc860$3b765920$@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <000c01ce0f6a$361f1600$a25d4200$@comcast.net>

Hi Gustav,

Can you listen to HD Radio where you are?  I bought a Zune a few years ago
specifically because it does have an HD receiver.  Using this plus a JVC
HAFX67W in-ear headphones, I now hear songs with voices and instruments that
I've never heard before even on my audio system, let alone listening to an
MP3.  You can get an HD receiver for your audio system as well.

Dan

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 6:42 AM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day

Hi Jim

Thanks, I will.

MP3 - in its low sampling versions - is terrible but, I must admit, serves a
purpose. Listening to music on the street with traffic noise doesn't call
for true hi-fi even though it is possible. MP3 and WAV files can be very
good, and my wife has a pair of mid-range Sennheiser earphones which play
surprisingly well.

The real strange thing is, that broadcasted audio quality hasn't evolved a
single step for the last 40 years or so while technology has moved a quantum
leap going digital with DSPs and computer control and digital recording. DAB
radio listening could be excellent but most channels, even those with
classic music and public service, use limited sampling rates to save
bandwidth and compression of 3-6 dB or more to obtain a "sound wall paper"
suitable for cars and cheap players. Even transmissions from summit
meetings, where money and equipment cannot be an issue, carry most often an
awful sound. I just don't get it.

/gustav
 
-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Jim Lawrence
Sendt: 19. februar 2013 19:25
Til: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Emne: Re: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day

Congratulations.

There is nothing like a great sound system...something that those who only
listening to MP3s and the like will never truly understand. It also seems
you have the right music, with the right media to be able really appreciate
such a nice system. :-)

Enjoy

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 9:47 AM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day

Hi all

More than 30 years ago when in the audio business, two of our clients -
audio-visual producers - asked for new top-notch monitor speakers for their
studios. We toured several suppliers listening to the well-known brands,
quite expensive, and then we stopped by at Technics as they had gained much
attention due to a major lift in quality.
That settled it. I still recall how we listened carefully to our selection
of "difficult" music but our real test was the reproduction of high-quality
recorded human voice which is far more difficult to reproduce than most are
aware of. There was no doubt - the SB-7000 speakers with the
phase-correcting speaker alignment were convincing and the price couldn't be
matched:

  http://www.thevintageknob.org/technics-SB-7000.html

At that time I neither had the money nor the space for such speakers but
ever since I've dreamed of obtaining a set of these. By pure accident,
Saturday I browsed a local second-hand site, and there they were, right in
front of me on the screen, at a bargain price - and I have the room. Through
the years I have struggled with some compact wife-friendly speakers - very
good of course, but still - nothing beats a 15" high-quality speaker (except
an 18" but they are so rare).

Now, this set could really be anything - burned out units or misbehaved in
many ways. So I had to go and listen: I brought some music that can bring
down most systems and reveal any sort of misbehaviour: Chick Corea, My
Spanish Heart, and Miles Davis, Tutu, on CD:

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Spanish_Heart

It was like coming home! They reproduced perfectly and exactly like I had
imagined with the transparent and completely neutral sound I remembered.
They've two owners only, and no disco youngster had succeeded destroying
them.
So, today I picked them up and can hardly wait to get home and power them
up. Should this day come? From time to time I thought No and resigned ...
but today: Yes.

Through the years I've kept (some sort of intuition or instinct?) this
bright Sony amplifier to power them:

  http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-TA-N86B.html

Though I have quite decent equipment to feed this, I might be looking for
the matching preamp:

  http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-TA-E88B.html

But that's another story.

/gustav

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From gustav at cactus.dk  Wed Feb 20 07:01:11 2013
From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 14:01:11 +0100
Subject: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day
Message-ID: <006501ce0f6a$5b3baa70$11b2ff50$@cactus.dk>

Hi Stuart

Oh that is sad, you have my sympathy, though the real quality of music is
not a question of a frequency range. 
Hearing loss comes to most of us, mine is degraded a little as well but not
so much that I feel it. I hope it will settle at that level. The few times I
have used fire arms, ear protecting was mandatory.

/gustav


-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Stuart McLachlan
Sendt: 19. februar 2013 23:08
Til: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Emne: Re: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day

Once upon a time I would have been very envious of you,  but my gunner'ear*
means that I can no longer appreciate the nuances of high quality audio  :-(

--
Stuart

* loss of high range hearing in particular as the result of too many years
of gunfire with inadequate or no ear protection.



On 19 Feb 2013 at 18:47, Gustav Brock wrote:

> Hi all
> 
> More than 30 years ago when in the audio business, two of our clients -
> audio-visual producers - asked for new top-notch monitor speakers for
their
> studios. We toured several suppliers listening to the well-known brands,
> quite expensive, and then we stopped by at Technics as they had gained
much
> attention due to a major lift in quality.
> That settled it. I still recall how we listened carefully to our selection
> of "difficult" music but our real test was the reproduction of
high-quality
> recorded human voice which is far more difficult to reproduce than most
are
> aware of. There was no doubt - the SB-7000 speakers with the
> phase-correcting speaker alignment were convincing and the price couldn't
be
> matched:
> 
>   http://www.thevintageknob.org/technics-SB-7000.html
> 
> At that time I neither had the money nor the space for such speakers but
> ever since I've dreamed of obtaining a set of these. By pure accident,
> Saturday I browsed a local second-hand site, and there they were, right in
> front of me on the screen, at a bargain price - and I have the room.
Through
> the years I have struggled with some compact wife-friendly speakers - very
> good of course, but still - nothing beats a 15" high-quality speaker
(except
> an 18" but they are so rare).
> 
> Now, this set could really be anything - burned out units or misbehaved in
> many ways. So I had to go and listen: I brought some music that can bring
> down most systems and reveal any sort of misbehaviour: Chick Corea, My
> Spanish Heart, and Miles Davis, Tutu, on CD:
> 
>   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Spanish_Heart
> 
> It was like coming home! They reproduced perfectly and exactly like I had
> imagined with the transparent and completely neutral sound I remembered.
> They've two owners only, and no disco youngster had succeeded destroying
> them.
> So, today I picked them up and can hardly wait to get home and power them
> up. Should this day come? From time to time I thought No and resigned ...
> but today: Yes.
> 
> Through the years I've kept (some sort of intuition or instinct?) this
> bright Sony amplifier to power them:
> 
>   http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-TA-N86B.html
> 
> Though I have quite decent equipment to feed this, I might be looking for
> the matching preamp:
> 
>   http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-TA-E88B.html
> 
> But that's another story.
> 
> /gustav 



From accessd at shaw.ca  Wed Feb 20 07:26:56 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 05:26:56 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Comments on the new Ubuntu phone
In-Reply-To: <006501ce0f6a$5b3baa70$11b2ff50$@cactus.dk>
References: <006501ce0f6a$5b3baa70$11b2ff50$@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <0C5ED79643974316935DFF889FF224E1@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Considering that the Ubuntu phone has not even released a product to market
and their percentages are almost the same as the Windows phone. That is not
a poke at Windows rather a market surge looking for something new and fresh.

So the expectation is incredible great. Whether they will be able to live up
to their potential fans expectations is of course untried but as the writer
of attached article states, "Everyone is looking for something new and
fresh."

The writer is an Apple person but he goes on to say...

"...Two mobile operating systems rule the market as of now and as simple
market knowledge can tell you, competition spurs innovation. Android is
pushing some limits, but in doing so cause an extreme amount of
fragmentation and left vulnerabilities in the form of the lacking Google
Play Store and other areas. Apple on the opposite end is becoming nothing
less than stagnant with iOS. Incremental upgrades are nice, but when a
company who previously pushed the boundaries in every regard for the past
decade goes through five iterations of their mobile operating systems
without any huge changes, the consumers - or at least pro-sumers - will
become bored with it, as we're always looking for the latest and greatest.
We're looking at The Jetsons up in the sky while we feel iOS is still using
its feet for brakes; Fred Flintstone-ing it.

With both Android and Apple showing their pitfalls more now than ever,
Ubuntu stumbled upon the opportunity to rise up out of nowhere and disrupt
the market... "

http://theindustry.cc/2013/02/18/ubuntu-for-phones-analysis-for-potential-an
d-visual-breakdown/ 

Jim


From accessd at shaw.ca  Wed Feb 20 07:39:33 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 05:39:33 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day
In-Reply-To: <005f01ce0f67$be7cc860$3b765920$@cactus.dk>
References: <005f01ce0f67$be7cc860$3b765920$@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <871028FECACB4A928A0AD931614E3AFE@creativesystemdesigns.com>

A friend has a set of ear-phones or should I call them ear-muffs. 

I have not investigated these devices but he says their sound quality is
excellent and he is a bit of a audio-phile but their price is somewhere
around $1200.00 and they play 128 bit sampling with some kind of computerize
noise elimination. ...but don't quote me as I do not even know the name of
the product. ;-)

I have found that many people completely rely on their Smartphones/iPhones
for all their music and therefore have no idea what real sound quality
is...a quiet room, little light, a tea or a scotch and a beautiful stereo
system. 

Enjoy your new music.

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 4:42 AM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day

Hi Jim

Thanks, I will.

MP3 - in its low sampling versions - is terrible but, I must admit, serves a
purpose. Listening to music on the street with traffic noise doesn't call
for true hi-fi even though it is possible. MP3 and WAV files can be very
good, and my wife has a pair of mid-range Sennheiser earphones which play
surprisingly well.

The real strange thing is, that broadcasted audio quality hasn't evolved a
single step for the last 40 years or so while technology has moved a quantum
leap going digital with DSPs and computer control and digital recording. DAB
radio listening could be excellent but most channels, even those with
classic music and public service, use limited sampling rates to save
bandwidth and compression of 3-6 dB or more to obtain a "sound wall paper"
suitable for cars and cheap players. Even transmissions from summit
meetings, where money and equipment cannot be an issue, carry most often an
awful sound. I just don't get it.

/gustav
 
-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Jim Lawrence
Sendt: 19. februar 2013 19:25
Til: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Emne: Re: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day

Congratulations.

There is nothing like a great sound system...something that those who only
listening to MP3s and the like will never truly understand. It also seems
you have the right music, with the right media to be able really appreciate
such a nice system. :-)

Enjoy

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 9:47 AM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day

Hi all

More than 30 years ago when in the audio business, two of our clients -
audio-visual producers - asked for new top-notch monitor speakers for their
studios. We toured several suppliers listening to the well-known brands,
quite expensive, and then we stopped by at Technics as they had gained much
attention due to a major lift in quality.
That settled it. I still recall how we listened carefully to our selection
of "difficult" music but our real test was the reproduction of high-quality
recorded human voice which is far more difficult to reproduce than most are
aware of. There was no doubt - the SB-7000 speakers with the
phase-correcting speaker alignment were convincing and the price couldn't be
matched:

  http://www.thevintageknob.org/technics-SB-7000.html

At that time I neither had the money nor the space for such speakers but
ever since I've dreamed of obtaining a set of these. By pure accident,
Saturday I browsed a local second-hand site, and there they were, right in
front of me on the screen, at a bargain price - and I have the room. Through
the years I have struggled with some compact wife-friendly speakers - very
good of course, but still - nothing beats a 15" high-quality speaker (except
an 18" but they are so rare).

Now, this set could really be anything - burned out units or misbehaved in
many ways. So I had to go and listen: I brought some music that can bring
down most systems and reveal any sort of misbehaviour: Chick Corea, My
Spanish Heart, and Miles Davis, Tutu, on CD:

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Spanish_Heart

It was like coming home! They reproduced perfectly and exactly like I had
imagined with the transparent and completely neutral sound I remembered.
They've two owners only, and no disco youngster had succeeded destroying
them.
So, today I picked them up and can hardly wait to get home and power them
up. Should this day come? From time to time I thought No and resigned ...
but today: Yes.

Through the years I've kept (some sort of intuition or instinct?) this
bright Sony amplifier to power them:

  http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-TA-N86B.html

Though I have quite decent equipment to feed this, I might be looking for
the matching preamp:

  http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-TA-E88B.html

But that's another story.

/gustav

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From jon.tydda at lonza.com  Wed Feb 20 07:47:24 2013
From: jon.tydda at lonza.com (Tydda Jon - Lonza Slough)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 14:47:24 +0100
Subject: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day
In-Reply-To: <871028FECACB4A928A0AD931614E3AFE@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <005f01ce0f67$be7cc860$3b765920$@cactus.dk>
	<871028FECACB4A928A0AD931614E3AFE@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <A750CC0AAE63CB489C58478FF67DE6321F16FE1CA4@chvex03.lonzagroup.net>

All I know is that if you can't feel it, it's not loud enough! :-)


Jon

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence
Sent: 20 February 2013 13:40
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day

A friend has a set of ear-phones or should I call them ear-muffs.

I have not investigated these devices but he says their sound quality is excellent and he is a bit of a audio-phile but their price is somewhere around $1200.00 and they play 128 bit sampling with some kind of computerize noise elimination. ...but don't quote me as I do not even know the name of the product. ;-)

I have found that many people completely rely on their Smartphones/iPhones for all their music and therefore have no idea what real sound quality is...a quiet room, little light, a tea or a scotch and a beautiful stereo system.

Enjoy your new music.

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 4:42 AM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day

Hi Jim

Thanks, I will.

MP3 - in its low sampling versions - is terrible but, I must admit, serves a purpose. Listening to music on the street with traffic noise doesn't call for true hi-fi even though it is possible. MP3 and WAV files can be very good, and my wife has a pair of mid-range Sennheiser earphones which play surprisingly well.

The real strange thing is, that broadcasted audio quality hasn't evolved a single step for the last 40 years or so while technology has moved a quantum leap going digital with DSPs and computer control and digital recording. DAB radio listening could be excellent but most channels, even those with classic music and public service, use limited sampling rates to save bandwidth and compression of 3-6 dB or more to obtain a "sound wall paper"
suitable for cars and cheap players. Even transmissions from summit meetings, where money and equipment cannot be an issue, carry most often an awful sound. I just don't get it.

/gustav

-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Jim Lawrence
Sendt: 19. februar 2013 19:25
Til: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Emne: Re: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day

Congratulations.

There is nothing like a great sound system...something that those who only listening to MP3s and the like will never truly understand. It also seems you have the right music, with the right media to be able really appreciate such a nice system. :-)

Enjoy

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 9:47 AM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day

Hi all

More than 30 years ago when in the audio business, two of our clients - audio-visual producers - asked for new top-notch monitor speakers for their studios. We toured several suppliers listening to the well-known brands, quite expensive, and then we stopped by at Technics as they had gained much attention due to a major lift in quality.
That settled it. I still recall how we listened carefully to our selection of "difficult" music but our real test was the reproduction of high-quality recorded human voice which is far more difficult to reproduce than most are aware of. There was no doubt - the SB-7000 speakers with the phase-correcting speaker alignment were convincing and the price couldn't be
matched:

  http://www.thevintageknob.org/technics-SB-7000.html

At that time I neither had the money nor the space for such speakers but ever since I've dreamed of obtaining a set of these. By pure accident, Saturday I browsed a local second-hand site, and there they were, right in front of me on the screen, at a bargain price - and I have the room. Through the years I have struggled with some compact wife-friendly speakers - very good of course, but still - nothing beats a 15" high-quality speaker (except an 18" but they are so rare).

Now, this set could really be anything - burned out units or misbehaved in many ways. So I had to go and listen: I brought some music that can bring down most systems and reveal any sort of misbehaviour: Chick Corea, My Spanish Heart, and Miles Davis, Tutu, on CD:

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Spanish_Heart

It was like coming home! They reproduced perfectly and exactly like I had imagined with the transparent and completely neutral sound I remembered.
They've two owners only, and no disco youngster had succeeded destroying them.
So, today I picked them up and can hardly wait to get home and power them up. Should this day come? From time to time I thought No and resigned ...
but today: Yes.

Through the years I've kept (some sort of intuition or instinct?) this bright Sony amplifier to power them:

  http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-TA-N86B.html

Though I have quite decent equipment to feed this, I might be looking for the matching preamp:

  http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-TA-E88B.html

But that's another story.

/gustav

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

This communication and its attachments, if any, may contain confidential and privileged information the use of which by other persons or entities than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you receive this transmission in error, please contact the sender immediately and delete the material from your system.


From gustav at cactus.dk  Wed Feb 20 08:25:16 2013
From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 15:25:16 +0100
Subject: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day
In-Reply-To: <000c01ce0f6a$361f1600$a25d4200$@comcast.net>
References: <005f01ce0f67$be7cc860$3b765920$@cactus.dk>
	<000c01ce0f6a$361f1600$a25d4200$@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <006c01ce0f76$1aa87bd0$4ff97370$@cactus.dk>

Hi Dan

Nope, we have Digital Audio Broadcasting (DAB) here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Audio_Broadcasting

with "a more smeared stereo image, and an upper cutoff frequency of 14 kHz,
corresponding to 15 kHz of FM radio." Talk about progress. It is not, thus a
newer standard, DAB+, has been introduced. However, it has not yet been
implemented by any broadcaster here.

/gustav

-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Dan Waters
Sendt: 20. februar 2013 14:00
Til: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Emne: Re: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day

Hi Gustav,

Can you listen to HD Radio where you are?  I bought a Zune a few years ago
specifically because it does have an HD receiver.  Using this plus a JVC
HAFX67W in-ear headphones, I now hear songs with voices and instruments that
I've never heard before even on my audio system, let alone listening to an
MP3.  You can get an HD receiver for your audio system as well.

Dan

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 6:42 AM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day

Hi Jim

Thanks, I will.

MP3 - in its low sampling versions - is terrible but, I must admit, serves a
purpose. Listening to music on the street with traffic noise doesn't call
for true hi-fi even though it is possible. MP3 and WAV files can be very
good, and my wife has a pair of mid-range Sennheiser earphones which play
surprisingly well.

The real strange thing is, that broadcasted audio quality hasn't evolved a
single step for the last 40 years or so while technology has moved a quantum
leap going digital with DSPs and computer control and digital recording. DAB
radio listening could be excellent but most channels, even those with
classic music and public service, use limited sampling rates to save
bandwidth and compression of 3-6 dB or more to obtain a "sound wall paper"
suitable for cars and cheap players. Even transmissions from summit
meetings, where money and equipment cannot be an issue, carry most often an
awful sound. I just don't get it.

/gustav
 
-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Jim Lawrence
Sendt: 19. februar 2013 19:25
Til: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Emne: Re: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day

Congratulations.

There is nothing like a great sound system...something that those who only
listening to MP3s and the like will never truly understand. It also seems
you have the right music, with the right media to be able really appreciate
such a nice system. :-)

Enjoy

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 9:47 AM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day

Hi all

More than 30 years ago when in the audio business, two of our clients -
audio-visual producers - asked for new top-notch monitor speakers for their
studios. We toured several suppliers listening to the well-known brands,
quite expensive, and then we stopped by at Technics as they had gained much
attention due to a major lift in quality.
That settled it. I still recall how we listened carefully to our selection
of "difficult" music but our real test was the reproduction of high-quality
recorded human voice which is far more difficult to reproduce than most are
aware of. There was no doubt - the SB-7000 speakers with the
phase-correcting speaker alignment were convincing and the price couldn't be
matched:

  http://www.thevintageknob.org/technics-SB-7000.html

At that time I neither had the money nor the space for such speakers but
ever since I've dreamed of obtaining a set of these. By pure accident,
Saturday I browsed a local second-hand site, and there they were, right in
front of me on the screen, at a bargain price - and I have the room. Through
the years I have struggled with some compact wife-friendly speakers - very
good of course, but still - nothing beats a 15" high-quality speaker (except
an 18" but they are so rare).

Now, this set could really be anything - burned out units or misbehaved in
many ways. So I had to go and listen: I brought some music that can bring
down most systems and reveal any sort of misbehaviour: Chick Corea, My
Spanish Heart, and Miles Davis, Tutu, on CD:

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Spanish_Heart

It was like coming home! They reproduced perfectly and exactly like I had
imagined with the transparent and completely neutral sound I remembered.
They've two owners only, and no disco youngster had succeeded destroying
them.
So, today I picked them up and can hardly wait to get home and power them
up. Should this day come? From time to time I thought No and resigned ...
but today: Yes.

Through the years I've kept (some sort of intuition or instinct?) this
bright Sony amplifier to power them:

  http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-TA-N86B.html

Though I have quite decent equipment to feed this, I might be looking for
the matching preamp:

  http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-TA-E88B.html

But that's another story.

/gustav 



From gustav at cactus.dk  Wed Feb 20 08:35:58 2013
From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 15:35:58 +0100
Subject: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day
Message-ID: <007401ce0f77$995962e0$cc0c28a0$@cactus.dk>

Hi Jon

You have a point. 
My wife's set of "ear-muffs" has a remarkable bas range, but it is very
strange to play loud using these as the physical feeling is non-existing.
Some sort of lab-feeling.

/gustav


-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Tydda Jon - Lonza
Slough
Sendt: 20. februar 2013 14:47
Til: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Emne: Re: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day

All I know is that if you can't feel it, it's not loud enough! :-)


Jon

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence
Sent: 20 February 2013 13:40
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day

A friend has a set of ear-phones or should I call them ear-muffs.

I have not investigated these devices but he says their sound quality is
excellent and he is a bit of a audio-phile but their price is somewhere
around $1200.00 and they play 128 bit sampling with some kind of computerize
noise elimination. ...but don't quote me as I do not even know the name of
the product. ;-)

I have found that many people completely rely on their Smartphones/iPhones
for all their music and therefore have no idea what real sound quality
is...a quiet room, little light, a tea or a scotch and a beautiful stereo
system.

Enjoy your new music.

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 4:42 AM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day

Hi Jim

Thanks, I will.

MP3 - in its low sampling versions - is terrible but, I must admit, serves a
purpose. Listening to music on the street with traffic noise doesn't call
for true hi-fi even though it is possible. MP3 and WAV files can be very
good, and my wife has a pair of mid-range Sennheiser earphones which play
surprisingly well.

The real strange thing is, that broadcasted audio quality hasn't evolved a
single step for the last 40 years or so while technology has moved a quantum
leap going digital with DSPs and computer control and digital recording. DAB
radio listening could be excellent but most channels, even those with
classic music and public service, use limited sampling rates to save
bandwidth and compression of 3-6 dB or more to obtain a "sound wall paper"
suitable for cars and cheap players. Even transmissions from summit
meetings, where money and equipment cannot be an issue, carry most often an
awful sound. I just don't get it.

/gustav

-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Jim Lawrence
Sendt: 19. februar 2013 19:25
Til: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Emne: Re: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day

Congratulations.

There is nothing like a great sound system...something that those who only
listening to MP3s and the like will never truly understand. It also seems
you have the right music, with the right media to be able really appreciate
such a nice system. :-)

Enjoy

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 9:47 AM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day

Hi all

More than 30 years ago when in the audio business, two of our clients -
audio-visual producers - asked for new top-notch monitor speakers for their
studios. We toured several suppliers listening to the well-known brands,
quite expensive, and then we stopped by at Technics as they had gained much
attention due to a major lift in quality.
That settled it. I still recall how we listened carefully to our selection
of "difficult" music but our real test was the reproduction of high-quality
recorded human voice which is far more difficult to reproduce than most are
aware of. There was no doubt - the SB-7000 speakers with the
phase-correcting speaker alignment were convincing and the price couldn't be
matched:

  http://www.thevintageknob.org/technics-SB-7000.html

At that time I neither had the money nor the space for such speakers but
ever since I've dreamed of obtaining a set of these. By pure accident,
Saturday I browsed a local second-hand site, and there they were, right in
front of me on the screen, at a bargain price - and I have the room. Through
the years I have struggled with some compact wife-friendly speakers - very
good of course, but still - nothing beats a 15" high-quality speaker (except
an 18" but they are so rare).

Now, this set could really be anything - burned out units or misbehaved in
many ways. So I had to go and listen: I brought some music that can bring
down most systems and reveal any sort of misbehaviour: Chick Corea, My
Spanish Heart, and Miles Davis, Tutu, on CD:

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Spanish_Heart

It was like coming home! They reproduced perfectly and exactly like I had
imagined with the transparent and completely neutral sound I remembered.
They've two owners only, and no disco youngster had succeeded destroying
them.
So, today I picked them up and can hardly wait to get home and power them
up. Should this day come? From time to time I thought No and resigned ...
but today: Yes.

Through the years I've kept (some sort of intuition or instinct?) this
bright Sony amplifier to power them:

  http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-TA-N86B.html

Though I have quite decent equipment to feed this, I might be looking for
the matching preamp:

  http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-TA-E88B.html

But that's another story.

/gustav



From garykjos at gmail.com  Wed Feb 20 08:46:32 2013
From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 08:46:32 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day
In-Reply-To: <017001ce0ec9$243ff630$6cbfe290$@cactus.dk>
References: <017001ce0ec9$243ff630$6cbfe290$@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <CAJ2R_pKddTkCpXP9-uCzRXT0kSZjDT2A1MySXZidkC_355JLXQ@mail.gmail.com>

Congratulations!  I'm jealous. So nice to have a system that you can
play at any volume level and not need to wonder about distortion or
what is being left out due to sampling constraints etc. I recently
bought a new receiver which has networking built in and so could
listen to the music on my PC's. I hadn't bought in to the MP3s are
noticeably degraded idea and so thought all would be well and good as
I had enjoyed these same tunes via my iPOD and from memory stick in my
vehicle without noticing significant loss of quality. When I listened
to them on the Big System though I certainly noticed!  So I've since
reconverted all my CD's to WAV and am in the process of doing them
again another time using iTUNES Lossless format for playing via iTUNES
Airplay which I like for it's random play capability and have been
enjoying the music as it was intended to be heard again.

Enjoy your new speakers!

GK

On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Gustav Brock <gustav at cactus.dk> wrote:
> Hi all
>
> More than 30 years ago when in the audio business, two of our clients -
> audio-visual producers - asked for new top-notch monitor speakers for their
> studios. We toured several suppliers listening to the well-known brands,
> quite expensive, and then we stopped by at Technics as they had gained much
> attention due to a major lift in quality.
> That settled it. I still recall how we listened carefully to our selection
> of "difficult" music but our real test was the reproduction of high-quality
> recorded human voice which is far more difficult to reproduce than most are
> aware of. There was no doubt - the SB-7000 speakers with the
> phase-correcting speaker alignment were convincing and the price couldn't be
> matched:
>
>   http://www.thevintageknob.org/technics-SB-7000.html
>
> At that time I neither had the money nor the space for such speakers but
> ever since I've dreamed of obtaining a set of these. By pure accident,
> Saturday I browsed a local second-hand site, and there they were, right in
> front of me on the screen, at a bargain price - and I have the room. Through
> the years I have struggled with some compact wife-friendly speakers - very
> good of course, but still - nothing beats a 15" high-quality speaker (except
> an 18" but they are so rare).
>
> Now, this set could really be anything - burned out units or misbehaved in
> many ways. So I had to go and listen: I brought some music that can bring
> down most systems and reveal any sort of misbehaviour: Chick Corea, My
> Spanish Heart, and Miles Davis, Tutu, on CD:
>
>   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Spanish_Heart
>
> It was like coming home! They reproduced perfectly and exactly like I had
> imagined with the transparent and completely neutral sound I remembered.
> They've two owners only, and no disco youngster had succeeded destroying
> them.
> So, today I picked them up and can hardly wait to get home and power them
> up. Should this day come? From time to time I thought No and resigned ...
> but today: Yes.
>
> Through the years I've kept (some sort of intuition or instinct?) this
> bright Sony amplifier to power them:
>
>   http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-TA-N86B.html
>
> Though I have quite decent equipment to feed this, I might be looking for
> the matching preamp:
>
>   http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-TA-E88B.html
>
> But that's another story.
>
> /gustav
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



-- 
Gary Kjos
garykjos at gmail.com

From gustav at cactus.dk  Wed Feb 20 09:59:11 2013
From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 16:59:11 +0100
Subject: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day
Message-ID: <00b001ce0f83$38fcff40$aaf6fdc0$@cactus.dk>

Hi Gary

To me the distribution is an upcoming project to which no obvious solution
exists. For recording I've used the WMA format in its lossless setting and
that works quite well but consumes an awful lot of disk space. Ripping all
my CDs, not to say my LPs, would be quite expensive. So it is not in the
near future.

/gustav

-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Gary Kjos
Sendt: 20. februar 2013 15:47
Til: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Emne: Re: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day

Congratulations!  I'm jealous. So nice to have a system that you can play at
any volume level and not need to wonder about distortion or what is being
left out due to sampling constraints etc. I recently bought a new receiver
which has networking built in and so could listen to the music on my PC's. I
hadn't bought in to the MP3s are noticeably degraded idea and so thought all
would be well and good as I had enjoyed these same tunes via my iPOD and
from memory stick in my vehicle without noticing significant loss of
quality. When I listened to them on the Big System though I certainly
noticed!  So I've since reconverted all my CD's to WAV and am in the process
of doing them again another time using iTUNES Lossless format for playing
via iTUNES Airplay which I like for it's random play capability and have
been enjoying the music as it was intended to be heard again.

Enjoy your new speakers!

GK

On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Gustav Brock <gustav at cactus.dk> wrote:
> Hi all
>
> More than 30 years ago when in the audio business, two of our clients 
> - audio-visual producers - asked for new top-notch monitor speakers 
> for their studios. We toured several suppliers listening to the 
> well-known brands, quite expensive, and then we stopped by at Technics 
> as they had gained much attention due to a major lift in quality.
> That settled it. I still recall how we listened carefully to our 
> selection of "difficult" music but our real test was the reproduction 
> of high-quality recorded human voice which is far more difficult to 
> reproduce than most are aware of. There was no doubt - the SB-7000 
> speakers with the phase-correcting speaker alignment were convincing 
> and the price couldn't be
> matched:
>
>   http://www.thevintageknob.org/technics-SB-7000.html
>
> At that time I neither had the money nor the space for such speakers 
> but ever since I've dreamed of obtaining a set of these. By pure 
> accident, Saturday I browsed a local second-hand site, and there they 
> were, right in front of me on the screen, at a bargain price - and I 
> have the room. Through the years I have struggled with some compact 
> wife-friendly speakers - very good of course, but still - nothing 
> beats a 15" high-quality speaker (except an 18" but they are so rare).
>
> Now, this set could really be anything - burned out units or 
> misbehaved in many ways. So I had to go and listen: I brought some 
> music that can bring down most systems and reveal any sort of 
> misbehaviour: Chick Corea, My Spanish Heart, and Miles Davis, Tutu, on CD:
>
>   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Spanish_Heart
>
> It was like coming home! They reproduced perfectly and exactly like I 
> had imagined with the transparent and completely neutral sound I
remembered.
> They've two owners only, and no disco youngster had succeeded 
> destroying them.
> So, today I picked them up and can hardly wait to get home and power 
> them up. Should this day come? From time to time I thought No and resigned
...
> but today: Yes.
>
> Through the years I've kept (some sort of intuition or instinct?) this 
> bright Sony amplifier to power them:
>
>   http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-TA-N86B.html
>
> Though I have quite decent equipment to feed this, I might be looking 
> for the matching preamp:
>
>   http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-TA-E88B.html
>
> But that's another story.
>
> /gustav 



From garykjos at gmail.com  Wed Feb 20 11:11:10 2013
From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 11:11:10 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day
In-Reply-To: <00b001ce0f83$38fcff40$aaf6fdc0$@cactus.dk>
References: <00b001ce0f83$38fcff40$aaf6fdc0$@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <CAJ2R_pK4CqxOU1pEFx9DSr_93SQ+jNMg+u3e3Cttggxv2mAH0A@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Gustav,

Yes Lossless will take up a lot of space but the price of disk has
come down over the years. I've only got about 500 CD's and maybe 400
vinyl disks in my collection.  But many of my favorite vinyl disks I
also have in CD form. I have digitized a few of the LP's I couldn't
find on CD and while it's better than not having them in digital form,
it is pretty time consuming and takes a fair amount of effort. So I've
not done a wholesale import on the vinyl. I've got a single terabyte
drive I've dedicated to the music and that seems to have plenty of
space for what I need for the foreseeable future.   My biggest concern
right now is that the PC I use for storing the music is making too
much noise. I'm not sure if it's the power supply fan or the main case
fan but it's making more sound than i like. It's a 2004 vintage Dell
Dimension and so isn't the fastest machine either although that really
doesn't hinder anything excepting the boot time for the most part. So
I am currently researching parts to build a new system that will be
quieter. I've seen a couple cases that have the look of other stereo
equipment and may go that route.

All it takes is time and money.  Both are hard to come by though.
Once we get through the winter here, time in particular becomes real
problem for me.

GK

On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 9:59 AM, Gustav Brock <gustav at cactus.dk> wrote:
> Hi Gary
>
> To me the distribution is an upcoming project to which no obvious solution
> exists. For recording I've used the WMA format in its lossless setting and
> that works quite well but consumes an awful lot of disk space. Ripping all
> my CDs, not to say my LPs, would be quite expensive. So it is not in the
> near future.
>
> /gustav
>
> -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
> Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Gary Kjos
> Sendt: 20. februar 2013 15:47
> Til: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Emne: Re: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day
>
> Congratulations!  I'm jealous. So nice to have a system that you can play at
> any volume level and not need to wonder about distortion or what is being
> left out due to sampling constraints etc. I recently bought a new receiver
> which has networking built in and so could listen to the music on my PC's. I
> hadn't bought in to the MP3s are noticeably degraded idea and so thought all
> would be well and good as I had enjoyed these same tunes via my iPOD and
> from memory stick in my vehicle without noticing significant loss of
> quality. When I listened to them on the Big System though I certainly
> noticed!  So I've since reconverted all my CD's to WAV and am in the process
> of doing them again another time using iTUNES Lossless format for playing
> via iTUNES Airplay which I like for it's random play capability and have
> been enjoying the music as it was intended to be heard again.
>
> Enjoy your new speakers!
>
> GK
>
> On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Gustav Brock <gustav at cactus.dk> wrote:
>> Hi all
>>
>> More than 30 years ago when in the audio business, two of our clients
>> - audio-visual producers - asked for new top-notch monitor speakers
>> for their studios. We toured several suppliers listening to the
>> well-known brands, quite expensive, and then we stopped by at Technics
>> as they had gained much attention due to a major lift in quality.
>> That settled it. I still recall how we listened carefully to our
>> selection of "difficult" music but our real test was the reproduction
>> of high-quality recorded human voice which is far more difficult to
>> reproduce than most are aware of. There was no doubt - the SB-7000
>> speakers with the phase-correcting speaker alignment were convincing
>> and the price couldn't be
>> matched:
>>
>>   http://www.thevintageknob.org/technics-SB-7000.html
>>
>> At that time I neither had the money nor the space for such speakers
>> but ever since I've dreamed of obtaining a set of these. By pure
>> accident, Saturday I browsed a local second-hand site, and there they
>> were, right in front of me on the screen, at a bargain price - and I
>> have the room. Through the years I have struggled with some compact
>> wife-friendly speakers - very good of course, but still - nothing
>> beats a 15" high-quality speaker (except an 18" but they are so rare).
>>
>> Now, this set could really be anything - burned out units or
>> misbehaved in many ways. So I had to go and listen: I brought some
>> music that can bring down most systems and reveal any sort of
>> misbehaviour: Chick Corea, My Spanish Heart, and Miles Davis, Tutu, on CD:
>>
>>   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Spanish_Heart
>>
>> It was like coming home! They reproduced perfectly and exactly like I
>> had imagined with the transparent and completely neutral sound I
> remembered.
>> They've two owners only, and no disco youngster had succeeded
>> destroying them.
>> So, today I picked them up and can hardly wait to get home and power
>> them up. Should this day come? From time to time I thought No and resigned
> ...
>> but today: Yes.
>>
>> Through the years I've kept (some sort of intuition or instinct?) this
>> bright Sony amplifier to power them:
>>
>>   http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-TA-N86B.html
>>
>> Though I have quite decent equipment to feed this, I might be looking
>> for the matching preamp:
>>
>>   http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-TA-E88B.html
>>
>> But that's another story.
>>
>> /gustav
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



-- 
Gary Kjos
garykjos at gmail.com


From gustav at cactus.dk  Wed Feb 20 11:20:38 2013
From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 18:20:38 +0100
Subject: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day
Message-ID: <00be01ce0f8e$9a670ae0$cf3520a0$@cactus.dk>

Hi Gary

Time is a problem. "Ripping" LPs must wait until I retire.
Couldn't you replace the fans in that old Dell? Or move it to another room?

/gustav

-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Gary Kjos
Sendt: 20. februar 2013 18:11
Til: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Emne: Re: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day

Hi Gustav,

Yes Lossless will take up a lot of space but the price of disk has come down
over the years. I've only got about 500 CD's and maybe 400 vinyl disks in my
collection.  But many of my favorite vinyl disks I also have in CD form. I
have digitized a few of the LP's I couldn't find on CD and while it's better
than not having them in digital form, it is pretty time consuming and takes
a fair amount of effort. So I've not done a wholesale import on the vinyl.
I've got a single terabyte drive I've dedicated to the music and that seems
to have plenty of space for what I need for the foreseeable future.   My
biggest concern right now is that the PC I use for storing the music is
making too much noise. I'm not sure if it's the power supply fan or the main
case fan but it's making more sound than i like. It's a 2004 vintage Dell
Dimension and so isn't the fastest machine either although that really
doesn't hinder anything excepting the boot time for the most part. So I am
currently researching parts to build a new system that will be quieter. I've
seen a couple cases that have the look of other stereo equipment and may go
that route.

All it takes is time and money.  Both are hard to come by though.
Once we get through the winter here, time in particular becomes real problem
for me.

GK

On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 9:59 AM, Gustav Brock <gustav at cactus.dk> wrote:
> Hi Gary
>
> To me the distribution is an upcoming project to which no obvious 
> solution exists. For recording I've used the WMA format in its 
> lossless setting and that works quite well but consumes an awful lot 
> of disk space. Ripping all my CDs, not to say my LPs, would be quite 
> expensive. So it is not in the near future.
>
> /gustav 



From peter.brawley at earthlink.net  Wed Feb 20 11:29:54 2013
From: peter.brawley at earthlink.net (Peter Brawley)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 11:29:54 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day
In-Reply-To: <CAJ2R_pKddTkCpXP9-uCzRXT0kSZjDT2A1MySXZidkC_355JLXQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <017001ce0ec9$243ff630$6cbfe290$@cactus.dk>
	<CAJ2R_pKddTkCpXP9-uCzRXT0kSZjDT2A1MySXZidkC_355JLXQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <51250812.5070604@earthlink.net>

If you can free yourself from Apple's control, FOSS software (like 
mediaMonkey and maqny others) losslessly compress CDs to FLAC files, 
approx 50% of CD filesize; then a small settop box like the Kdlinks 
HD700 will stream them all from your server to your receiver or preamp, 
with no corporate predator restraining your choices.

PB

------

On 2013-02-20 8:46 AM, Gary Kjos wrote:
> Congratulations!  I'm jealous. So nice to have a system that you can
> play at any volume level and not need to wonder about distortion or
> what is being left out due to sampling constraints etc. I recently
> bought a new receiver which has networking built in and so could
> listen to the music on my PC's. I hadn't bought in to the MP3s are
> noticeably degraded idea and so thought all would be well and good as
> I had enjoyed these same tunes via my iPOD and from memory stick in my
> vehicle without noticing significant loss of quality. When I listened
> to them on the Big System though I certainly noticed!  So I've since
> reconverted all my CD's to WAV and am in the process of doing them
> again another time using iTUNES Lossless format for playing via iTUNES
> Airplay which I like for it's random play capability and have been
> enjoying the music as it was intended to be heard again.
>
> Enjoy your new speakers!
>
> GK
>
> On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Gustav Brock <gustav at cactus.dk> wrote:
>> Hi all
>>
>> More than 30 years ago when in the audio business, two of our clients -
>> audio-visual producers - asked for new top-notch monitor speakers for their
>> studios. We toured several suppliers listening to the well-known brands,
>> quite expensive, and then we stopped by at Technics as they had gained much
>> attention due to a major lift in quality.
>> That settled it. I still recall how we listened carefully to our selection
>> of "difficult" music but our real test was the reproduction of high-quality
>> recorded human voice which is far more difficult to reproduce than most are
>> aware of. There was no doubt - the SB-7000 speakers with the
>> phase-correcting speaker alignment were convincing and the price couldn't be
>> matched:
>>
>>    http://www.thevintageknob.org/technics-SB-7000.html
>>
>> At that time I neither had the money nor the space for such speakers but
>> ever since I've dreamed of obtaining a set of these. By pure accident,
>> Saturday I browsed a local second-hand site, and there they were, right in
>> front of me on the screen, at a bargain price - and I have the room. Through
>> the years I have struggled with some compact wife-friendly speakers - very
>> good of course, but still - nothing beats a 15" high-quality speaker (except
>> an 18" but they are so rare).
>>
>> Now, this set could really be anything - burned out units or misbehaved in
>> many ways. So I had to go and listen: I brought some music that can bring
>> down most systems and reveal any sort of misbehaviour: Chick Corea, My
>> Spanish Heart, and Miles Davis, Tutu, on CD:
>>
>>    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Spanish_Heart
>>
>> It was like coming home! They reproduced perfectly and exactly like I had
>> imagined with the transparent and completely neutral sound I remembered.
>> They've two owners only, and no disco youngster had succeeded destroying
>> them.
>> So, today I picked them up and can hardly wait to get home and power them
>> up. Should this day come? From time to time I thought No and resigned ...
>> but today: Yes.
>>
>> Through the years I've kept (some sort of intuition or instinct?) this
>> bright Sony amplifier to power them:
>>
>>    http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-TA-N86B.html
>>
>> Though I have quite decent equipment to feed this, I might be looking for
>> the matching preamp:
>>
>>    http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-TA-E88B.html
>>
>> But that's another story.
>>
>> /gustav
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> dba-Tech mailing list
>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>


From accessd at shaw.ca  Wed Feb 20 13:12:59 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 11:12:59 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day
In-Reply-To: <CAJ2R_pK4CqxOU1pEFx9DSr_93SQ+jNMg+u3e3Cttggxv2mAH0A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <00b001ce0f83$38fcff40$aaf6fdc0$@cactus.dk>
	<CAJ2R_pK4CqxOU1pEFx9DSr_93SQ+jNMg+u3e3Cttggxv2mAH0A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9C0B7A250CC9454CACCB39A5AE61E5E4@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Gary:

Just a note. The better new laptops have more cores, better ventilation,
separate RAM for audio and video. This helps stop the CPUs from over heating
so the fans are not always cutting in. Some of the new computers don't even
have fans but that just shortens the life of product considerably as they
are always over-heating. The only downside is that a good laptop starts at
about $800.00. ...of course the audio and video is superior.

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 9:11 AM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day

Hi Gustav,

Yes Lossless will take up a lot of space but the price of disk has
come down over the years. I've only got about 500 CD's and maybe 400
vinyl disks in my collection.  But many of my favorite vinyl disks I
also have in CD form. I have digitized a few of the LP's I couldn't
find on CD and while it's better than not having them in digital form,
it is pretty time consuming and takes a fair amount of effort. So I've
not done a wholesale import on the vinyl. I've got a single terabyte
drive I've dedicated to the music and that seems to have plenty of
space for what I need for the foreseeable future.   My biggest concern
right now is that the PC I use for storing the music is making too
much noise. I'm not sure if it's the power supply fan or the main case
fan but it's making more sound than i like. It's a 2004 vintage Dell
Dimension and so isn't the fastest machine either although that really
doesn't hinder anything excepting the boot time for the most part. So
I am currently researching parts to build a new system that will be
quieter. I've seen a couple cases that have the look of other stereo
equipment and may go that route.

All it takes is time and money.  Both are hard to come by though.
Once we get through the winter here, time in particular becomes real
problem for me.

GK

On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 9:59 AM, Gustav Brock <gustav at cactus.dk> wrote:
> Hi Gary
>
> To me the distribution is an upcoming project to which no obvious solution
> exists. For recording I've used the WMA format in its lossless setting and
> that works quite well but consumes an awful lot of disk space. Ripping all
> my CDs, not to say my LPs, would be quite expensive. So it is not in the
> near future.
>
> /gustav
>
> -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
> Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Gary Kjos
> Sendt: 20. februar 2013 15:47
> Til: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Emne: Re: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day
>
> Congratulations!  I'm jealous. So nice to have a system that you can play
at
> any volume level and not need to wonder about distortion or what is being
> left out due to sampling constraints etc. I recently bought a new receiver
> which has networking built in and so could listen to the music on my PC's.
I
> hadn't bought in to the MP3s are noticeably degraded idea and so thought
all
> would be well and good as I had enjoyed these same tunes via my iPOD and
> from memory stick in my vehicle without noticing significant loss of
> quality. When I listened to them on the Big System though I certainly
> noticed!  So I've since reconverted all my CD's to WAV and am in the
process
> of doing them again another time using iTUNES Lossless format for playing
> via iTUNES Airplay which I like for it's random play capability and have
> been enjoying the music as it was intended to be heard again.
>
> Enjoy your new speakers!
>
> GK
>
> On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Gustav Brock <gustav at cactus.dk> wrote:
>> Hi all
>>
>> More than 30 years ago when in the audio business, two of our clients
>> - audio-visual producers - asked for new top-notch monitor speakers
>> for their studios. We toured several suppliers listening to the
>> well-known brands, quite expensive, and then we stopped by at Technics
>> as they had gained much attention due to a major lift in quality.
>> That settled it. I still recall how we listened carefully to our
>> selection of "difficult" music but our real test was the reproduction
>> of high-quality recorded human voice which is far more difficult to
>> reproduce than most are aware of. There was no doubt - the SB-7000
>> speakers with the phase-correcting speaker alignment were convincing
>> and the price couldn't be
>> matched:
>>
>>   http://www.thevintageknob.org/technics-SB-7000.html
>>
>> At that time I neither had the money nor the space for such speakers
>> but ever since I've dreamed of obtaining a set of these. By pure
>> accident, Saturday I browsed a local second-hand site, and there they
>> were, right in front of me on the screen, at a bargain price - and I
>> have the room. Through the years I have struggled with some compact
>> wife-friendly speakers - very good of course, but still - nothing
>> beats a 15" high-quality speaker (except an 18" but they are so rare).
>>
>> Now, this set could really be anything - burned out units or
>> misbehaved in many ways. So I had to go and listen: I brought some
>> music that can bring down most systems and reveal any sort of
>> misbehaviour: Chick Corea, My Spanish Heart, and Miles Davis, Tutu, on
CD:
>>
>>   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Spanish_Heart
>>
>> It was like coming home! They reproduced perfectly and exactly like I
>> had imagined with the transparent and completely neutral sound I
> remembered.
>> They've two owners only, and no disco youngster had succeeded
>> destroying them.
>> So, today I picked them up and can hardly wait to get home and power
>> them up. Should this day come? From time to time I thought No and
resigned
> ...
>> but today: Yes.
>>
>> Through the years I've kept (some sort of intuition or instinct?) this
>> bright Sony amplifier to power them:
>>
>>   http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-TA-N86B.html
>>
>> Though I have quite decent equipment to feed this, I might be looking
>> for the matching preamp:
>>
>>   http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-TA-E88B.html
>>
>> But that's another story.
>>
>> /gustav
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



-- 
Gary Kjos
garykjos at gmail.com

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From garykjos at gmail.com  Wed Feb 20 13:13:46 2013
From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 13:13:46 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day
In-Reply-To: <00be01ce0f8e$9a670ae0$cf3520a0$@cactus.dk>
References: <00be01ce0f8e$9a670ae0$cf3520a0$@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <CAJ2R_pKo9X4zVM7oq+N+kwBJQdG7XTm4cV0tXrQ9qWAcPsfPbQ@mail.gmail.com>

Yes I could find new fans and put them in, but my recollection of that
machine is that even when new it wasn't as quiet as I would like.  At
this point I could go that way OR buy a new case and motherboard,
maybe a ssd hard drive for a boot drive and some new ram and have a
new Windows 8 media center. But for now I do nothing and just complain
about the noise <grin>  Really it's mostly only noticeable when
everything else is powered off so just doing nothing is a viable
option.

GK

On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 11:20 AM, Gustav Brock <gustav at cactus.dk> wrote:
> Hi Gary
>
> Time is a problem. "Ripping" LPs must wait until I retire.
> Couldn't you replace the fans in that old Dell? Or move it to another room?
>
> /gustav
>
> -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
> Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Gary Kjos
> Sendt: 20. februar 2013 18:11
> Til: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Emne: Re: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day
>
> Hi Gustav,
>
> Yes Lossless will take up a lot of space but the price of disk has come down
> over the years. I've only got about 500 CD's and maybe 400 vinyl disks in my
> collection.  But many of my favorite vinyl disks I also have in CD form. I
> have digitized a few of the LP's I couldn't find on CD and while it's better
> than not having them in digital form, it is pretty time consuming and takes
> a fair amount of effort. So I've not done a wholesale import on the vinyl.
> I've got a single terabyte drive I've dedicated to the music and that seems
> to have plenty of space for what I need for the foreseeable future.   My
> biggest concern right now is that the PC I use for storing the music is
> making too much noise. I'm not sure if it's the power supply fan or the main
> case fan but it's making more sound than i like. It's a 2004 vintage Dell
> Dimension and so isn't the fastest machine either although that really
> doesn't hinder anything excepting the boot time for the most part. So I am
> currently researching parts to build a new system that will be quieter. I've
> seen a couple cases that have the look of other stereo equipment and may go
> that route.
>
> All it takes is time and money.  Both are hard to come by though.
> Once we get through the winter here, time in particular becomes real problem
> for me.
>
> GK
>
> On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 9:59 AM, Gustav Brock <gustav at cactus.dk> wrote:
>> Hi Gary
>>
>> To me the distribution is an upcoming project to which no obvious
>> solution exists. For recording I've used the WMA format in its
>> lossless setting and that works quite well but consumes an awful lot
>> of disk space. Ripping all my CDs, not to say my LPs, would be quite
>> expensive. So it is not in the near future.
>>
>> /gustav
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



-- 
Gary Kjos
garykjos at gmail.com


From garykjos at gmail.com  Wed Feb 20 13:30:31 2013
From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 13:30:31 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day
In-Reply-To: <51250812.5070604@earthlink.net>
References: <017001ce0ec9$243ff630$6cbfe290$@cactus.dk>
	<CAJ2R_pKddTkCpXP9-uCzRXT0kSZjDT2A1MySXZidkC_355JLXQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<51250812.5070604@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <CAJ2R_pLoYJzdQWsWjdOYYk=CpkYjsivsKMc8tx+-s6RGp8E9AQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Peter,

Thanks for the input. The receiver - a Yamaha Aventege RX-A2020 - has
built in networking and built in Airplay - so I'm using those
capabilities with no added hardware excepting the PC acting as a
server. I probably didn't choose the right format when i ripped all
the CD's to WAV using Windows Media Player. While Media Player does go
and get album art and store it along with the music tracks, not
everything will take advantage of the separate file with the art in it
or use the naming convention used for the individual tracks. My
receiver uses the track names fine though and displays the track being
played on it's front panel or on the TV connected to it if I'm not
watching another video source. In "play from network server" mode it
won't play random tracks from the entire library though - or at least
I haven't figured out how to make it do that.  So that was why I went
back to iTUNES which does a fine job of selecting random tracks as I
want it to. I'm not really feeling caged in by Apple, I have used
iTunes and continue to as a iPOD user although I sync my IPOD's to
libraries on different systems than I'm using for this. The space
isn't currently a problem for me but I suppose over time that could
change.

My neighbor is a musician, has a recording studio in his home and a
lot of high end gear and he also has recommended the FLAC format. When
I go to my next ripping exercise I will have to consider that as a
better choice than what I've been messing around with I suppose.


GK

On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 11:29 AM, Peter Brawley
<peter.brawley at earthlink.net> wrote:
> If you can free yourself from Apple's control, FOSS software (like
> mediaMonkey and maqny others) losslessly compress CDs to FLAC files, approx
> 50% of CD filesize; then a small settop box like the Kdlinks HD700 will
> stream them all from your server to your receiver or preamp, with no
> corporate predator restraining your choices.
>
> PB
>
> ------
>
>
> On 2013-02-20 8:46 AM, Gary Kjos wrote:
>>
>> Congratulations!  I'm jealous. So nice to have a system that you can
>> play at any volume level and not need to wonder about distortion or
>> what is being left out due to sampling constraints etc. I recently
>> bought a new receiver which has networking built in and so could
>> listen to the music on my PC's. I hadn't bought in to the MP3s are
>> noticeably degraded idea and so thought all would be well and good as
>> I had enjoyed these same tunes via my iPOD and from memory stick in my
>> vehicle without noticing significant loss of quality. When I listened
>> to them on the Big System though I certainly noticed!  So I've since
>> reconverted all my CD's to WAV and am in the process of doing them
>> again another time using iTUNES Lossless format for playing via iTUNES
>> Airplay which I like for it's random play capability and have been
>> enjoying the music as it was intended to be heard again.
>>
>> Enjoy your new speakers!
>>
>> GK
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Gustav Brock <gustav at cactus.dk> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi all
>>>
>>> More than 30 years ago when in the audio business, two of our clients -
>>> audio-visual producers - asked for new top-notch monitor speakers for
>>> their
>>> studios. We toured several suppliers listening to the well-known brands,
>>> quite expensive, and then we stopped by at Technics as they had gained
>>> much
>>> attention due to a major lift in quality.
>>> That settled it. I still recall how we listened carefully to our
>>> selection
>>> of "difficult" music but our real test was the reproduction of
>>> high-quality
>>> recorded human voice which is far more difficult to reproduce than most
>>> are
>>> aware of. There was no doubt - the SB-7000 speakers with the
>>> phase-correcting speaker alignment were convincing and the price couldn't
>>> be
>>> matched:
>>>
>>>    http://www.thevintageknob.org/technics-SB-7000.html
>>>
>>> At that time I neither had the money nor the space for such speakers but
>>> ever since I've dreamed of obtaining a set of these. By pure accident,
>>> Saturday I browsed a local second-hand site, and there they were, right
>>> in
>>> front of me on the screen, at a bargain price - and I have the room.
>>> Through
>>> the years I have struggled with some compact wife-friendly speakers -
>>> very
>>> good of course, but still - nothing beats a 15" high-quality speaker
>>> (except
>>> an 18" but they are so rare).
>>>
>>> Now, this set could really be anything - burned out units or misbehaved
>>> in
>>> many ways. So I had to go and listen: I brought some music that can bring
>>> down most systems and reveal any sort of misbehaviour: Chick Corea, My
>>> Spanish Heart, and Miles Davis, Tutu, on CD:
>>>
>>>    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Spanish_Heart
>>>
>>> It was like coming home! They reproduced perfectly and exactly like I had
>>> imagined with the transparent and completely neutral sound I remembered.
>>> They've two owners only, and no disco youngster had succeeded destroying
>>> them.
>>> So, today I picked them up and can hardly wait to get home and power them
>>> up. Should this day come? From time to time I thought No and resigned ...
>>> but today: Yes.
>>>
>>> Through the years I've kept (some sort of intuition or instinct?) this
>>> bright Sony amplifier to power them:
>>>
>>>    http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-TA-N86B.html
>>>
>>> Though I have quite decent equipment to feed this, I might be looking for
>>> the matching preamp:
>>>
>>>    http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-TA-E88B.html
>>>
>>> But that's another story.
>>>
>>> /gustav
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> dba-Tech mailing list
>>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>>
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



-- 
Gary Kjos
garykjos at gmail.com

From garykjos at gmail.com  Wed Feb 20 13:57:12 2013
From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 13:57:12 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day
In-Reply-To: <9C0B7A250CC9454CACCB39A5AE61E5E4@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <00b001ce0f83$38fcff40$aaf6fdc0$@cactus.dk>
	<CAJ2R_pK4CqxOU1pEFx9DSr_93SQ+jNMg+u3e3Cttggxv2mAH0A@mail.gmail.com>
	<9C0B7A250CC9454CACCB39A5AE61E5E4@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ2R_pLU+zOhJGqgGeU4xXhkhNLOhyDjVAfzx8zj09A1A15NMw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Jim,

I really don' t need a laptop I don't think. This PC is connected to a
65 inch DLP TV in addition to the previously mentioned Yamaha RX-A2020
A/V receiver. The receiver does the Digital to Audio conversion so
there is no sound card involved on the PC side, it talks to the
receiver via ethernet. Video from current PC to the TV is via HDMI at
1080p which is all the TV can handle resolution wise.

The current PC lives in an audio rack to the right of the 65 inch TV
along with a UPS for the entire system an Gigabit Ethernet Switch and
a few older and mostly currently not connected to anything components
like a VHS VCR, and Cassette Tape recorder and a broken CD player. A
matching audio rack on the left side of the TV has (top to bottom)
Cable Box, Blue Ray Player, DVD changer, CD changer, A/V receiver, Old
AV receiver (not currently connected to anything) and at the bottom a
turntable also not currently connected but planned to connect
eventually.

Here is one of the cases I was looking at

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811163195

or this one

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811204037


But again, doing nothing isn't killing me at this point either.  It's
a want more than a need.

GK




On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 1:12 PM, Jim Lawrence <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:
> Hi Gary:
>
> Just a note. The better new laptops have more cores, better ventilation,
> separate RAM for audio and video. This helps stop the CPUs from over heating
> so the fans are not always cutting in. Some of the new computers don't even
> have fans but that just shortens the life of product considerably as they
> are always over-heating. The only downside is that a good laptop starts at
> about $800.00. ...of course the audio and video is superior.
>
> Jim
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos
> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 9:11 AM
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day
>
> Hi Gustav,
>
> Yes Lossless will take up a lot of space but the price of disk has
> come down over the years. I've only got about 500 CD's and maybe 400
> vinyl disks in my collection.  But many of my favorite vinyl disks I
> also have in CD form. I have digitized a few of the LP's I couldn't
> find on CD and while it's better than not having them in digital form,
> it is pretty time consuming and takes a fair amount of effort. So I've
> not done a wholesale import on the vinyl. I've got a single terabyte
> drive I've dedicated to the music and that seems to have plenty of
> space for what I need for the foreseeable future.   My biggest concern
> right now is that the PC I use for storing the music is making too
> much noise. I'm not sure if it's the power supply fan or the main case
> fan but it's making more sound than i like. It's a 2004 vintage Dell
> Dimension and so isn't the fastest machine either although that really
> doesn't hinder anything excepting the boot time for the most part. So
> I am currently researching parts to build a new system that will be
> quieter. I've seen a couple cases that have the look of other stereo
> equipment and may go that route.
>
> All it takes is time and money.  Both are hard to come by though.
> Once we get through the winter here, time in particular becomes real
> problem for me.
>
> GK
>
> On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 9:59 AM, Gustav Brock <gustav at cactus.dk> wrote:
>> Hi Gary
>>
>> To me the distribution is an upcoming project to which no obvious solution
>> exists. For recording I've used the WMA format in its lossless setting and
>> that works quite well but consumes an awful lot of disk space. Ripping all
>> my CDs, not to say my LPs, would be quite expensive. So it is not in the
>> near future.
>>
>> /gustav
>>
>> -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
>> Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Gary Kjos
>> Sendt: 20. februar 2013 15:47
>> Til: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>> Emne: Re: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day
>>
>> Congratulations!  I'm jealous. So nice to have a system that you can play
> at
>> any volume level and not need to wonder about distortion or what is being
>> left out due to sampling constraints etc. I recently bought a new receiver
>> which has networking built in and so could listen to the music on my PC's.
> I
>> hadn't bought in to the MP3s are noticeably degraded idea and so thought
> all
>> would be well and good as I had enjoyed these same tunes via my iPOD and
>> from memory stick in my vehicle without noticing significant loss of
>> quality. When I listened to them on the Big System though I certainly
>> noticed!  So I've since reconverted all my CD's to WAV and am in the
> process
>> of doing them again another time using iTUNES Lossless format for playing
>> via iTUNES Airplay which I like for it's random play capability and have
>> been enjoying the music as it was intended to be heard again.
>>
>> Enjoy your new speakers!
>>
>> GK
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Gustav Brock <gustav at cactus.dk> wrote:
>>> Hi all
>>>
>>> More than 30 years ago when in the audio business, two of our clients
>>> - audio-visual producers - asked for new top-notch monitor speakers
>>> for their studios. We toured several suppliers listening to the
>>> well-known brands, quite expensive, and then we stopped by at Technics
>>> as they had gained much attention due to a major lift in quality.
>>> That settled it. I still recall how we listened carefully to our
>>> selection of "difficult" music but our real test was the reproduction
>>> of high-quality recorded human voice which is far more difficult to
>>> reproduce than most are aware of. There was no doubt - the SB-7000
>>> speakers with the phase-correcting speaker alignment were convincing
>>> and the price couldn't be
>>> matched:
>>>
>>>   http://www.thevintageknob.org/technics-SB-7000.html
>>>
>>> At that time I neither had the money nor the space for such speakers
>>> but ever since I've dreamed of obtaining a set of these. By pure
>>> accident, Saturday I browsed a local second-hand site, and there they
>>> were, right in front of me on the screen, at a bargain price - and I
>>> have the room. Through the years I have struggled with some compact
>>> wife-friendly speakers - very good of course, but still - nothing
>>> beats a 15" high-quality speaker (except an 18" but they are so rare).
>>>
>>> Now, this set could really be anything - burned out units or
>>> misbehaved in many ways. So I had to go and listen: I brought some
>>> music that can bring down most systems and reveal any sort of
>>> misbehaviour: Chick Corea, My Spanish Heart, and Miles Davis, Tutu, on
> CD:
>>>
>>>   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Spanish_Heart
>>>
>>> It was like coming home! They reproduced perfectly and exactly like I
>>> had imagined with the transparent and completely neutral sound I
>> remembered.
>>> They've two owners only, and no disco youngster had succeeded
>>> destroying them.
>>> So, today I picked them up and can hardly wait to get home and power
>>> them up. Should this day come? From time to time I thought No and
> resigned
>> ...
>>> but today: Yes.
>>>
>>> Through the years I've kept (some sort of intuition or instinct?) this
>>> bright Sony amplifier to power them:
>>>
>>>   http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-TA-N86B.html
>>>
>>> Though I have quite decent equipment to feed this, I might be looking
>>> for the matching preamp:
>>>
>>>   http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-TA-E88B.html
>>>
>>> But that's another story.
>>>
>>> /gustav
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> dba-Tech mailing list
>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>
>
> --
> Gary Kjos
> garykjos at gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



-- 
Gary Kjos
garykjos at gmail.com


From peter.brawley at earthlink.net  Wed Feb 20 14:20:51 2013
From: peter.brawley at earthlink.net (Peter Brawley)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 14:20:51 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day
In-Reply-To: <CAJ2R_pLoYJzdQWsWjdOYYk=CpkYjsivsKMc8tx+-s6RGp8E9AQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <017001ce0ec9$243ff630$6cbfe290$@cactus.dk>
	<CAJ2R_pKddTkCpXP9-uCzRXT0kSZjDT2A1MySXZidkC_355JLXQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<51250812.5070604@earthlink.net>
	<CAJ2R_pLoYJzdQWsWjdOYYk=CpkYjsivsKMc8tx+-s6RGp8E9AQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <51253023.8020601@earthlink.net>

Hi Gary,

A receiver that incorporates network & settop box logic is terrific. 
Firmware that doesn't support FLACs, not so much :-) .

PB

-----

On 2013-02-20 1:30 PM, Gary Kjos wrote:
> Hi Peter,
>
> Thanks for the input. The receiver - a Yamaha Aventege RX-A2020 - has
> built in networking and built in Airplay - so I'm using those
> capabilities with no added hardware excepting the PC acting as a
> server. I probably didn't choose the right format when i ripped all
> the CD's to WAV using Windows Media Player. While Media Player does go
> and get album art and store it along with the music tracks, not
> everything will take advantage of the separate file with the art in it
> or use the naming convention used for the individual tracks. My
> receiver uses the track names fine though and displays the track being
> played on it's front panel or on the TV connected to it if I'm not
> watching another video source. In "play from network server" mode it
> won't play random tracks from the entire library though - or at least
> I haven't figured out how to make it do that.  So that was why I went
> back to iTUNES which does a fine job of selecting random tracks as I
> want it to. I'm not really feeling caged in by Apple, I have used
> iTunes and continue to as a iPOD user although I sync my IPOD's to
> libraries on different systems than I'm using for this. The space
> isn't currently a problem for me but I suppose over time that could
> change.
>
> My neighbor is a musician, has a recording studio in his home and a
> lot of high end gear and he also has recommended the FLAC format. When
> I go to my next ripping exercise I will have to consider that as a
> better choice than what I've been messing around with I suppose.
>
>
> GK
>
> On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 11:29 AM, Peter Brawley
> <peter.brawley at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> If you can free yourself from Apple's control, FOSS software (like
>> mediaMonkey and maqny others) losslessly compress CDs to FLAC files, approx
>> 50% of CD filesize; then a small settop box like the Kdlinks HD700 will
>> stream them all from your server to your receiver or preamp, with no
>> corporate predator restraining your choices.
>>
>> PB
>>
>> ------
>>
>>
>> On 2013-02-20 8:46 AM, Gary Kjos wrote:
>>> Congratulations!  I'm jealous. So nice to have a system that you can
>>> play at any volume level and not need to wonder about distortion or
>>> what is being left out due to sampling constraints etc. I recently
>>> bought a new receiver which has networking built in and so could
>>> listen to the music on my PC's. I hadn't bought in to the MP3s are
>>> noticeably degraded idea and so thought all would be well and good as
>>> I had enjoyed these same tunes via my iPOD and from memory stick in my
>>> vehicle without noticing significant loss of quality. When I listened
>>> to them on the Big System though I certainly noticed!  So I've since
>>> reconverted all my CD's to WAV and am in the process of doing them
>>> again another time using iTUNES Lossless format for playing via iTUNES
>>> Airplay which I like for it's random play capability and have been
>>> enjoying the music as it was intended to be heard again.
>>>
>>> Enjoy your new speakers!
>>>
>>> GK
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Gustav Brock <gustav at cactus.dk> wrote:
>>>> Hi all
>>>>
>>>> More than 30 years ago when in the audio business, two of our clients -
>>>> audio-visual producers - asked for new top-notch monitor speakers for
>>>> their
>>>> studios. We toured several suppliers listening to the well-known brands,
>>>> quite expensive, and then we stopped by at Technics as they had gained
>>>> much
>>>> attention due to a major lift in quality.
>>>> That settled it. I still recall how we listened carefully to our
>>>> selection
>>>> of "difficult" music but our real test was the reproduction of
>>>> high-quality
>>>> recorded human voice which is far more difficult to reproduce than most
>>>> are
>>>> aware of. There was no doubt - the SB-7000 speakers with the
>>>> phase-correcting speaker alignment were convincing and the price couldn't
>>>> be
>>>> matched:
>>>>
>>>>     http://www.thevintageknob.org/technics-SB-7000.html
>>>>
>>>> At that time I neither had the money nor the space for such speakers but
>>>> ever since I've dreamed of obtaining a set of these. By pure accident,
>>>> Saturday I browsed a local second-hand site, and there they were, right
>>>> in
>>>> front of me on the screen, at a bargain price - and I have the room.
>>>> Through
>>>> the years I have struggled with some compact wife-friendly speakers -
>>>> very
>>>> good of course, but still - nothing beats a 15" high-quality speaker
>>>> (except
>>>> an 18" but they are so rare).
>>>>
>>>> Now, this set could really be anything - burned out units or misbehaved
>>>> in
>>>> many ways. So I had to go and listen: I brought some music that can bring
>>>> down most systems and reveal any sort of misbehaviour: Chick Corea, My
>>>> Spanish Heart, and Miles Davis, Tutu, on CD:
>>>>
>>>>     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Spanish_Heart
>>>>
>>>> It was like coming home! They reproduced perfectly and exactly like I had
>>>> imagined with the transparent and completely neutral sound I remembered.
>>>> They've two owners only, and no disco youngster had succeeded destroying
>>>> them.
>>>> So, today I picked them up and can hardly wait to get home and power them
>>>> up. Should this day come? From time to time I thought No and resigned ...
>>>> but today: Yes.
>>>>
>>>> Through the years I've kept (some sort of intuition or instinct?) this
>>>> bright Sony amplifier to power them:
>>>>
>>>>     http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-TA-N86B.html
>>>>
>>>> Though I have quite decent equipment to feed this, I might be looking for
>>>> the matching preamp:
>>>>
>>>>     http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-TA-E88B.html
>>>>
>>>> But that's another story.
>>>>
>>>> /gustav
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> dba-Tech mailing list
>>>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> dba-Tech mailing list
>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>


From fuller.artful at gmail.com  Wed Feb 20 14:28:44 2013
From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 15:28:44 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day
In-Reply-To: <51253023.8020601@earthlink.net>
References: <017001ce0ec9$243ff630$6cbfe290$@cactus.dk>
	<CAJ2R_pKddTkCpXP9-uCzRXT0kSZjDT2A1MySXZidkC_355JLXQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<51250812.5070604@earthlink.net>
	<CAJ2R_pLoYJzdQWsWjdOYYk=CpkYjsivsKMc8tx+-s6RGp8E9AQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<51253023.8020601@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <CAEPJO1i6DLWNLAaMuYBzJcg2G6b+Dbh+zyQFeJ_0srzw1SQKoA@mail.gmail.com>

While we're on this topic, I have a question about receivers, motivated by
the fact that there are abundant second-hand receivers available in my
neighbourhood (and I'm on a senior citizen's budget).

If I want to run a wire from my computer to a receiver, does the receiver
have to have "digital In"? Or can I simply obtain a wire that has the
skinny little output jack that sound cards like (don't know what it's
called) and then splits into a pair of standard RCA jacks on the other end?

A.

From peter.brawley at earthlink.net  Wed Feb 20 14:37:56 2013
From: peter.brawley at earthlink.net (Peter Brawley)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 14:37:56 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day
In-Reply-To: <CAEPJO1i6DLWNLAaMuYBzJcg2G6b+Dbh+zyQFeJ_0srzw1SQKoA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <017001ce0ec9$243ff630$6cbfe290$@cactus.dk>
	<CAJ2R_pKddTkCpXP9-uCzRXT0kSZjDT2A1MySXZidkC_355JLXQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<51250812.5070604@earthlink.net>
	<CAJ2R_pLoYJzdQWsWjdOYYk=CpkYjsivsKMc8tx+-s6RGp8E9AQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<51253023.8020601@earthlink.net>
	<CAEPJO1i6DLWNLAaMuYBzJcg2G6b+Dbh+zyQFeJ_0srzw1SQKoA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <51253424.20001@earthlink.net>

On 2013-02-20 2:28 PM, Arthur Fuller wrote:
> While we're on this topic, I have a question about receivers, motivated by
> the fact that there are abundant second-hand receivers available in my
> neighbourhood (and I'm on a senior citizen's budget).
>
> If I want to run a wire from my computer to a receiver, does the receiver
> have to have "digital In"? Or can I simply obtain a wire that has the
> skinny little output jack that sound cards like (don't know what it's
> called) and then splits into a pair of standard RCA jacks on the other end?
If the receiver accepts only analogue inputs, get a cable that has the 
headphone stereo plug for the sound card end and two RCA plugs for the 
receiver end.

PB

-----

>
> A.
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>


From fuller.artful at gmail.com  Wed Feb 20 14:50:06 2013
From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 15:50:06 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day
In-Reply-To: <51253424.20001@earthlink.net>
References: <017001ce0ec9$243ff630$6cbfe290$@cactus.dk>
	<CAJ2R_pKddTkCpXP9-uCzRXT0kSZjDT2A1MySXZidkC_355JLXQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<51250812.5070604@earthlink.net>
	<CAJ2R_pLoYJzdQWsWjdOYYk=CpkYjsivsKMc8tx+-s6RGp8E9AQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<51253023.8020601@earthlink.net>
	<CAEPJO1i6DLWNLAaMuYBzJcg2G6b+Dbh+zyQFeJ_0srzw1SQKoA@mail.gmail.com>
	<51253424.20001@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <CAEPJO1g6LGFDm99EZsuG_TOY9-gh=A10xVVm0-_Z8dw=7vRUwQ@mail.gmail.com>

Cool! Thanks.

A.

From garykjos at gmail.com  Wed Feb 20 14:50:16 2013
From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 14:50:16 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day
In-Reply-To: <51253023.8020601@earthlink.net>
References: <017001ce0ec9$243ff630$6cbfe290$@cactus.dk>
	<CAJ2R_pKddTkCpXP9-uCzRXT0kSZjDT2A1MySXZidkC_355JLXQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<51250812.5070604@earthlink.net>
	<CAJ2R_pLoYJzdQWsWjdOYYk=CpkYjsivsKMc8tx+-s6RGp8E9AQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<51253023.8020601@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <CAJ2R_pJG12yH6YxBGMMdJkJ+LLMpt00bguVHCdNgV0WtSsSnZw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Peter,

I found this when searching the Yamaha Website for FLAC and so it
would appear that it supports that format

This was under the heading
"High-resolution Music Enhancer Further Heightens Musicality From the
Original Content"

"Hi-bit high-sampling extension up to 96 kHz / 24-bit can be applied
to lossless 44.1/48 kHz content such as from a CD (2-channel PCM) or a
FLAC file for further heightening of the musicality in the original
content."

GK



On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 2:20 PM, Peter Brawley
<peter.brawley at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Hi Gary,
>
> A receiver that incorporates network & settop box logic is terrific.
> Firmware that doesn't support FLACs, not so much :-) .
>
> PB
>
> -----
>
>
> On 2013-02-20 1:30 PM, Gary Kjos wrote:
>>
>> Hi Peter,
>>
>> Thanks for the input. The receiver - a Yamaha Aventege RX-A2020 - has
>> built in networking and built in Airplay - so I'm using those
>> capabilities with no added hardware excepting the PC acting as a
>> server. I probably didn't choose the right format when i ripped all
>> the CD's to WAV using Windows Media Player. While Media Player does go
>> and get album art and store it along with the music tracks, not
>> everything will take advantage of the separate file with the art in it
>> or use the naming convention used for the individual tracks. My
>> receiver uses the track names fine though and displays the track being
>> played on it's front panel or on the TV connected to it if I'm not
>> watching another video source. In "play from network server" mode it
>> won't play random tracks from the entire library though - or at least
>> I haven't figured out how to make it do that.  So that was why I went
>> back to iTUNES which does a fine job of selecting random tracks as I
>> want it to. I'm not really feeling caged in by Apple, I have used
>> iTunes and continue to as a iPOD user although I sync my IPOD's to
>> libraries on different systems than I'm using for this. The space
>> isn't currently a problem for me but I suppose over time that could
>> change.
>>
>> My neighbor is a musician, has a recording studio in his home and a
>> lot of high end gear and he also has recommended the FLAC format. When
>> I go to my next ripping exercise I will have to consider that as a
>> better choice than what I've been messing around with I suppose.
>>
>>
>> GK
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 11:29 AM, Peter Brawley
>> <peter.brawley at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> If you can free yourself from Apple's control, FOSS software (like
>>> mediaMonkey and maqny others) losslessly compress CDs to FLAC files,
>>> approx
>>> 50% of CD filesize; then a small settop box like the Kdlinks HD700 will
>>> stream them all from your server to your receiver or preamp, with no
>>> corporate predator restraining your choices.
>>>
>>> PB
>>>
>>> ------
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2013-02-20 8:46 AM, Gary Kjos wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Congratulations!  I'm jealous. So nice to have a system that you can
>>>> play at any volume level and not need to wonder about distortion or
>>>> what is being left out due to sampling constraints etc. I recently
>>>> bought a new receiver which has networking built in and so could
>>>> listen to the music on my PC's. I hadn't bought in to the MP3s are
>>>> noticeably degraded idea and so thought all would be well and good as
>>>> I had enjoyed these same tunes via my iPOD and from memory stick in my
>>>> vehicle without noticing significant loss of quality. When I listened
>>>> to them on the Big System though I certainly noticed!  So I've since
>>>> reconverted all my CD's to WAV and am in the process of doing them
>>>> again another time using iTUNES Lossless format for playing via iTUNES
>>>> Airplay which I like for it's random play capability and have been
>>>> enjoying the music as it was intended to be heard again.
>>>>
>>>> Enjoy your new speakers!
>>>>
>>>> GK
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Gustav Brock <gustav at cactus.dk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi all
>>>>>
>>>>> More than 30 years ago when in the audio business, two of our clients -
>>>>> audio-visual producers - asked for new top-notch monitor speakers for
>>>>> their
>>>>> studios. We toured several suppliers listening to the well-known
>>>>> brands,
>>>>> quite expensive, and then we stopped by at Technics as they had gained
>>>>> much
>>>>> attention due to a major lift in quality.
>>>>> That settled it. I still recall how we listened carefully to our
>>>>> selection
>>>>> of "difficult" music but our real test was the reproduction of
>>>>> high-quality
>>>>> recorded human voice which is far more difficult to reproduce than most
>>>>> are
>>>>> aware of. There was no doubt - the SB-7000 speakers with the
>>>>> phase-correcting speaker alignment were convincing and the price
>>>>> couldn't
>>>>> be
>>>>> matched:
>>>>>
>>>>>     http://www.thevintageknob.org/technics-SB-7000.html
>>>>>
>>>>> At that time I neither had the money nor the space for such speakers
>>>>> but
>>>>> ever since I've dreamed of obtaining a set of these. By pure accident,
>>>>> Saturday I browsed a local second-hand site, and there they were, right
>>>>> in
>>>>> front of me on the screen, at a bargain price - and I have the room.
>>>>> Through
>>>>> the years I have struggled with some compact wife-friendly speakers -
>>>>> very
>>>>> good of course, but still - nothing beats a 15" high-quality speaker
>>>>> (except
>>>>> an 18" but they are so rare).
>>>>>
>>>>> Now, this set could really be anything - burned out units or misbehaved
>>>>> in
>>>>> many ways. So I had to go and listen: I brought some music that can
>>>>> bring
>>>>> down most systems and reveal any sort of misbehaviour: Chick Corea, My
>>>>> Spanish Heart, and Miles Davis, Tutu, on CD:
>>>>>
>>>>>     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Spanish_Heart
>>>>>
>>>>> It was like coming home! They reproduced perfectly and exactly like I
>>>>> had
>>>>> imagined with the transparent and completely neutral sound I
>>>>> remembered.
>>>>> They've two owners only, and no disco youngster had succeeded
>>>>> destroying
>>>>> them.
>>>>> So, today I picked them up and can hardly wait to get home and power
>>>>> them
>>>>> up. Should this day come? From time to time I thought No and resigned
>>>>> ...
>>>>> but today: Yes.
>>>>>
>>>>> Through the years I've kept (some sort of intuition or instinct?) this
>>>>> bright Sony amplifier to power them:
>>>>>
>>>>>     http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-TA-N86B.html
>>>>>
>>>>> Though I have quite decent equipment to feed this, I might be looking
>>>>> for
>>>>> the matching preamp:
>>>>>
>>>>>     http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-TA-E88B.html
>>>>>
>>>>> But that's another story.
>>>>>
>>>>> /gustav
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> dba-Tech mailing list
>>>>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> dba-Tech mailing list
>>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>>
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



-- 
Gary Kjos
garykjos at gmail.com

From fuller.artful at gmail.com  Wed Feb 20 14:54:24 2013
From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 15:54:24 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day
In-Reply-To: <CAJ2R_pJG12yH6YxBGMMdJkJ+LLMpt00bguVHCdNgV0WtSsSnZw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <017001ce0ec9$243ff630$6cbfe290$@cactus.dk>
	<CAJ2R_pKddTkCpXP9-uCzRXT0kSZjDT2A1MySXZidkC_355JLXQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<51250812.5070604@earthlink.net>
	<CAJ2R_pLoYJzdQWsWjdOYYk=CpkYjsivsKMc8tx+-s6RGp8E9AQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<51253023.8020601@earthlink.net>
	<CAJ2R_pJG12yH6YxBGMMdJkJ+LLMpt00bguVHCdNgV0WtSsSnZw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEPJO1jju3FQyk3Z_jcK5JsF7-OijTjY2Jydz6J5uUmrMfZbFw@mail.gmail.com>

Ever since Peter turned me on to FLAC files, I have seen no reason ever to
store any music in any other format. It rocks! (Bad term, granted; you only
really notice the huge difference with music that has serious range, such
as classical.)

A.

From hans.andersen at phulse.com  Wed Feb 20 15:10:00 2013
From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 13:10:00 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Smartphone operating systems: The rise of Android,
 the fall of Windows
In-Reply-To: <E811CE00C0734269AD0EA9DA0AB5835D@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <1360495212.146344839@f377.i.mail.ru>
	<1360497448.561824123@f364.mail.ru>
	<5A27A55F-70BA-48C9-AC04-056FE46B1689@phulse.com>
	<B1C08D1E-4DDF-4D40-B33C-D536A05CB17D@phulse.com>
	<E811CE00C0734269AD0EA9DA0AB5835D@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <CAFj0BAyF+S2AFnKq8uMys6yHyUYzZqYy+8z_9yt=kgcUYitTMg@mail.gmail.com>

Even Bill Gates is being a bit negative on Windows Phone:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/02/18/bill_gates_microsoft_phone_mistake/

You know its bad when Billy G is dissing your strategy.

*

Hans-Christian Andersen
**Web Application Developer, Vancouver, Canada*


E: hans at phulse.com
T: +44 (0)20 7193 7841
L: http://uk.linkedin.com/in/andersenhc
http://www.nokenode.com/

*Unique Gifts, Collectables, Artwork*
*Come one, come all to.... *www.corinnajasmine.com
*
*



On 10 February 2013 10:48, Jim Lawrence <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:

> Hi Hans:
>
> As for the Smartphone market, it is too soon to know for sure.
>
> Even if a phone only captures a small percentage of the market it does not
> mean the owner is going broke; it just means their profits are in the
> million not billions.
>
> I like the summary from article link, you posted...but I have always
> favoured non-aligned products and a market filled with plenty of choices:
>
> "...If there's going to be a number three Smartphone platform with some
> life
> to it, I see it coming from the various Linux distributions giving the
> Smartphone a try. The new and coming contenders for third place in 2013
> will
> be Firefox OS, Sailfish OS, Tizen, and Ubuntu.
>
> Of this quartet of contenders for third, I like Ubuntu the best. Now that
> we
> know that Ubuntu phones will be shipping this year, I feel much better
> about
> its chances. Behind Ubuntu, Firefox OS -- which will shortly be shipping on
> its first two phones -- is my dark horse..."
>
> Jim
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian
> Andersen
> Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2013 5:46 AM
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Subject: [dba-Tech] Smartphone operating systems: The rise of Android,the
> fall of Windows
>
> Smartphone operating systems: The rise of Android, the fall of Windows
>
>
> http://www.zdnet.com/smartphone-operating-systems-the-rise-of-android-the-fa
> ll-of-windows-7000011004/
>
> I wonder if Microsoft would have luck just staying the course or not. After
> all, Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8 are siblings. I can't imagine one being
> successful without the other.
>
> - Hans
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>

From accessd at shaw.ca  Wed Feb 20 15:58:35 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 13:58:35 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] More App stores
In-Reply-To: <CAFj0BAyF+S2AFnKq8uMys6yHyUYzZqYy+8z_9yt=kgcUYitTMg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1360495212.146344839@f377.i.mail.ru><1360497448.561824123@f364.mail.ru><5A27A55F-70BA-48C9-AC04-056FE46B1689@phulse.com><B1C08D1E-4DDF-4D40-B33C-D536A05CB17D@phulse.com><E811CE00C0734269AD0EA9DA0AB5835D@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<CAFj0BAyF+S2AFnKq8uMys6yHyUYzZqYy+8z_9yt=kgcUYitTMg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49303C411C88418C84046CC9AF25D475@creativesystemdesigns.com>

The following is a product that's time has come.

So many companies had security issues with their policies of BYOD and even
having their full-time staff downloading products so they can do their job.

Now maybe it is a good time for companies to take on the responsibility for
providing and vetting their internal software and products. Creating their
own apps Store is just the ticket.

http://blogs.wsj.com/cio/2013/02/13/cios-building-app-stores-to-address-cons
umerization/

Jim 


From accessd at shaw.ca  Wed Feb 20 16:11:22 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 14:11:22 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day
In-Reply-To: <CAJ2R_pLU+zOhJGqgGeU4xXhkhNLOhyDjVAfzx8zj09A1A15NMw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <00b001ce0f83$38fcff40$aaf6fdc0$@cactus.dk><CAJ2R_pK4CqxOU1pEFx9DSr_93SQ+jNMg+u3e3Cttggxv2mAH0A@mail.gmail.com><9C0B7A250CC9454CACCB39A5AE61E5E4@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<CAJ2R_pLU+zOhJGqgGeU4xXhkhNLOhyDjVAfzx8zj09A1A15NMw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7027906637AE4FA8AC7E373A7AC6EAB4@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Gary:

You should be able to move the PC to anywhere in your house and either
through a network LAN or Wi-Fi connection stream internet or PC/Server data,
video, photos and music to your TV. Once your computer can be placed
somewhere else, end of fan noise.

Have you checked out PS3 media server (http://www.ps3mediaserver.org/)? The
cost is very reasonable.

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 11:57 AM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day

Hi Jim,

I really don' t need a laptop I don't think. This PC is connected to a
65 inch DLP TV in addition to the previously mentioned Yamaha RX-A2020
A/V receiver. The receiver does the Digital to Audio conversion so
there is no sound card involved on the PC side, it talks to the
receiver via ethernet. Video from current PC to the TV is via HDMI at
1080p which is all the TV can handle resolution wise.

The current PC lives in an audio rack to the right of the 65 inch TV
along with a UPS for the entire system an Gigabit Ethernet Switch and
a few older and mostly currently not connected to anything components
like a VHS VCR, and Cassette Tape recorder and a broken CD player. A
matching audio rack on the left side of the TV has (top to bottom)
Cable Box, Blue Ray Player, DVD changer, CD changer, A/V receiver, Old
AV receiver (not currently connected to anything) and at the bottom a
turntable also not currently connected but planned to connect
eventually.

Here is one of the cases I was looking at

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811163195

or this one

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811204037


But again, doing nothing isn't killing me at this point either.  It's
a want more than a need.

GK




On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 1:12 PM, Jim Lawrence <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:
> Hi Gary:
>
> Just a note. The better new laptops have more cores, better ventilation,
> separate RAM for audio and video. This helps stop the CPUs from over
heating
> so the fans are not always cutting in. Some of the new computers don't
even
> have fans but that just shortens the life of product considerably as they
> are always over-heating. The only downside is that a good laptop starts at
> about $800.00. ...of course the audio and video is superior.
>
> Jim
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos
> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 9:11 AM
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day
>
> Hi Gustav,
>
> Yes Lossless will take up a lot of space but the price of disk has
> come down over the years. I've only got about 500 CD's and maybe 400
> vinyl disks in my collection.  But many of my favorite vinyl disks I
> also have in CD form. I have digitized a few of the LP's I couldn't
> find on CD and while it's better than not having them in digital form,
> it is pretty time consuming and takes a fair amount of effort. So I've
> not done a wholesale import on the vinyl. I've got a single terabyte
> drive I've dedicated to the music and that seems to have plenty of
> space for what I need for the foreseeable future.   My biggest concern
> right now is that the PC I use for storing the music is making too
> much noise. I'm not sure if it's the power supply fan or the main case
> fan but it's making more sound than i like. It's a 2004 vintage Dell
> Dimension and so isn't the fastest machine either although that really
> doesn't hinder anything excepting the boot time for the most part. So
> I am currently researching parts to build a new system that will be
> quieter. I've seen a couple cases that have the look of other stereo
> equipment and may go that route.
>
> All it takes is time and money.  Both are hard to come by though.
> Once we get through the winter here, time in particular becomes real
> problem for me.
>
> GK
>
> On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 9:59 AM, Gustav Brock <gustav at cactus.dk> wrote:
>> Hi Gary
>>
>> To me the distribution is an upcoming project to which no obvious
solution
>> exists. For recording I've used the WMA format in its lossless setting
and
>> that works quite well but consumes an awful lot of disk space. Ripping
all
>> my CDs, not to say my LPs, would be quite expensive. So it is not in the
>> near future.
>>
>> /gustav
>>
>> -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
>> Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Gary Kjos
>> Sendt: 20. februar 2013 15:47
>> Til: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>> Emne: Re: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day
>>
>> Congratulations!  I'm jealous. So nice to have a system that you can play
> at
>> any volume level and not need to wonder about distortion or what is being
>> left out due to sampling constraints etc. I recently bought a new
receiver
>> which has networking built in and so could listen to the music on my
PC's.
> I
>> hadn't bought in to the MP3s are noticeably degraded idea and so thought
> all
>> would be well and good as I had enjoyed these same tunes via my iPOD and
>> from memory stick in my vehicle without noticing significant loss of
>> quality. When I listened to them on the Big System though I certainly
>> noticed!  So I've since reconverted all my CD's to WAV and am in the
> process
>> of doing them again another time using iTUNES Lossless format for playing
>> via iTUNES Airplay which I like for it's random play capability and have
>> been enjoying the music as it was intended to be heard again.
>>
>> Enjoy your new speakers!
>>
>> GK
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Gustav Brock <gustav at cactus.dk> wrote:
>>> Hi all
>>>
>>> More than 30 years ago when in the audio business, two of our clients
>>> - audio-visual producers - asked for new top-notch monitor speakers
>>> for their studios. We toured several suppliers listening to the
>>> well-known brands, quite expensive, and then we stopped by at Technics
>>> as they had gained much attention due to a major lift in quality.
>>> That settled it. I still recall how we listened carefully to our
>>> selection of "difficult" music but our real test was the reproduction
>>> of high-quality recorded human voice which is far more difficult to
>>> reproduce than most are aware of. There was no doubt - the SB-7000
>>> speakers with the phase-correcting speaker alignment were convincing
>>> and the price couldn't be
>>> matched:
>>>
>>>   http://www.thevintageknob.org/technics-SB-7000.html
>>>
>>> At that time I neither had the money nor the space for such speakers
>>> but ever since I've dreamed of obtaining a set of these. By pure
>>> accident, Saturday I browsed a local second-hand site, and there they
>>> were, right in front of me on the screen, at a bargain price - and I
>>> have the room. Through the years I have struggled with some compact
>>> wife-friendly speakers - very good of course, but still - nothing
>>> beats a 15" high-quality speaker (except an 18" but they are so rare).
>>>
>>> Now, this set could really be anything - burned out units or
>>> misbehaved in many ways. So I had to go and listen: I brought some
>>> music that can bring down most systems and reveal any sort of
>>> misbehaviour: Chick Corea, My Spanish Heart, and Miles Davis, Tutu, on
> CD:
>>>
>>>   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Spanish_Heart
>>>
>>> It was like coming home! They reproduced perfectly and exactly like I
>>> had imagined with the transparent and completely neutral sound I
>> remembered.
>>> They've two owners only, and no disco youngster had succeeded
>>> destroying them.
>>> So, today I picked them up and can hardly wait to get home and power
>>> them up. Should this day come? From time to time I thought No and
> resigned
>> ...
>>> but today: Yes.
>>>
>>> Through the years I've kept (some sort of intuition or instinct?) this
>>> bright Sony amplifier to power them:
>>>
>>>   http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-TA-N86B.html
>>>
>>> Though I have quite decent equipment to feed this, I might be looking
>>> for the matching preamp:
>>>
>>>   http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-TA-E88B.html
>>>
>>> But that's another story.
>>>
>>> /gustav
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> dba-Tech mailing list
>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>
>
> --
> Gary Kjos
> garykjos at gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



-- 
Gary Kjos
garykjos at gmail.com

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From accessd at shaw.ca  Wed Feb 20 16:16:46 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 14:16:46 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day
In-Reply-To: <CAEPJO1i6DLWNLAaMuYBzJcg2G6b+Dbh+zyQFeJ_0srzw1SQKoA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <017001ce0ec9$243ff630$6cbfe290$@cactus.dk><CAJ2R_pKddTkCpXP9-uCzRXT0kSZjDT2A1MySXZidkC_355JLXQ@mail.gmail.com><51250812.5070604@earthlink.net><CAJ2R_pLoYJzdQWsWjdOYYk=CpkYjsivsKMc8tx+-s6RGp8E9AQ@mail.gmail.com><51253023.8020601@earthlink.net>
	<CAEPJO1i6DLWNLAaMuYBzJcg2G6b+Dbh+zyQFeJ_0srzw1SQKoA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <406C06C12E024883ADA1E5288C166992@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Arthur:

There are all kinds of connector available, from any standard, to any
standard. Places like "The Source" might be a good place to start,
especially to narrow down what you need, but there are many sellers on the
web who will sell such components for very inexpensive...mind you, you may
have to wait a couple of weeks for your "present" to come from China. ;-)

Jim 

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 12:29 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day

While we're on this topic, I have a question about receivers, motivated by
the fact that there are abundant second-hand receivers available in my
neighbourhood (and I'm on a senior citizen's budget).

If I want to run a wire from my computer to a receiver, does the receiver
have to have "digital In"? Or can I simply obtain a wire that has the
skinny little output jack that sound cards like (don't know what it's
called) and then splits into a pair of standard RCA jacks on the other end?

A.
_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From accessd at shaw.ca  Wed Feb 20 16:24:34 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 14:24:34 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Smartphone operating systems: The rise of Android,
	the fall of Windows
In-Reply-To: <CAFj0BAyF+S2AFnKq8uMys6yHyUYzZqYy+8z_9yt=kgcUYitTMg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1360495212.146344839@f377.i.mail.ru><1360497448.561824123@f364.mail.ru><5A27A55F-70BA-48C9-AC04-056FE46B1689@phulse.com><B1C08D1E-4DDF-4D40-B33C-D536A05CB17D@phulse.com><E811CE00C0734269AD0EA9DA0AB5835D@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<CAFj0BAyF+S2AFnKq8uMys6yHyUYzZqYy+8z_9yt=kgcUYitTMg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DE987769200F44F6B86429EEBE9C0458@creativesystemdesigns.com>

  Hi Hans:

Bill is just alluding to his "concerns" about Microsoft's new Management. 

He is very reluctant to rake his old company's management direction, style
and competance over the coal, especially in public, but I am sure, behind
closed door, there is a lot of screaming going on.

Jim   

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian
Andersen
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 1:10 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Smartphone operating systems: The rise of Android,
the fall of Windows

Even Bill Gates is being a bit negative on Windows Phone:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/02/18/bill_gates_microsoft_phone_mistake/

You know its bad when Billy G is dissing your strategy.

*

Hans-Christian Andersen
**Web Application Developer, Vancouver, Canada*


E: hans at phulse.com
T: +44 (0)20 7193 7841
L: http://uk.linkedin.com/in/andersenhc
http://www.nokenode.com/

*Unique Gifts, Collectables, Artwork*
*Come one, come all to.... *www.corinnajasmine.com
*
*



On 10 February 2013 10:48, Jim Lawrence <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:

> Hi Hans:
>
> As for the Smartphone market, it is too soon to know for sure.
>
> Even if a phone only captures a small percentage of the market it does not
> mean the owner is going broke; it just means their profits are in the
> million not billions.
>
> I like the summary from article link, you posted...but I have always
> favoured non-aligned products and a market filled with plenty of choices:
>
> "...If there's going to be a number three Smartphone platform with some
> life
> to it, I see it coming from the various Linux distributions giving the
> Smartphone a try. The new and coming contenders for third place in 2013
> will
> be Firefox OS, Sailfish OS, Tizen, and Ubuntu.
>
> Of this quartet of contenders for third, I like Ubuntu the best. Now that
> we
> know that Ubuntu phones will be shipping this year, I feel much better
> about
> its chances. Behind Ubuntu, Firefox OS -- which will shortly be shipping
on
> its first two phones -- is my dark horse..."
>
> Jim
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian
> Andersen
> Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2013 5:46 AM
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Subject: [dba-Tech] Smartphone operating systems: The rise of Android,the
> fall of Windows
>
> Smartphone operating systems: The rise of Android, the fall of Windows
>
>
>
http://www.zdnet.com/smartphone-operating-systems-the-rise-of-android-the-fa
> ll-of-windows-7000011004/
>
> I wonder if Microsoft would have luck just staying the course or not.
After
> all, Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8 are siblings. I can't imagine one being
> successful without the other.
>
> - Hans
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From garykjos at gmail.com  Wed Feb 20 17:03:44 2013
From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 17:03:44 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day
In-Reply-To: <7027906637AE4FA8AC7E373A7AC6EAB4@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <00b001ce0f83$38fcff40$aaf6fdc0$@cactus.dk>
	<CAJ2R_pK4CqxOU1pEFx9DSr_93SQ+jNMg+u3e3Cttggxv2mAH0A@mail.gmail.com>
	<9C0B7A250CC9454CACCB39A5AE61E5E4@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<CAJ2R_pLU+zOhJGqgGeU4xXhkhNLOhyDjVAfzx8zj09A1A15NMw@mail.gmail.com>
	<7027906637AE4FA8AC7E373A7AC6EAB4@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ2R_pJ_dQUjnXQyZ0tD+_6szGhc=p1iRMU0f20O_nvK_kj=Rw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Jim,

Ahhh I see what you mean. Oh certainly, it could go anyplace and
connect either wirelessly or by hard wire cable. But do I want to go
into some corner someplace when I want to rip more CD's?  No.  And I
am using this PC connected to the big TV to browse the web from time
to time and can play PC games on it using the Big TV as it's monitor.
So keeping A PC in proximity to the TV is important to me. Now could
the files be someplace else?  Sure I guess. But I run a fairly
distributed computing environment at my house. The Receiver does see
the other systems that have shared drives.

GK

On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 4:11 PM, Jim Lawrence <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:
> Hi Gary:
>
> You should be able to move the PC to anywhere in your house and either
> through a network LAN or Wi-Fi connection stream internet or PC/Server data,
> video, photos and music to your TV. Once your computer can be placed
> somewhere else, end of fan noise.
>
> Have you checked out PS3 media server (http://www.ps3mediaserver.org/)? The
> cost is very reasonable.
>
> Jim
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos
> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 11:57 AM
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day
>
> Hi Jim,
>
> I really don' t need a laptop I don't think. This PC is connected to a
> 65 inch DLP TV in addition to the previously mentioned Yamaha RX-A2020
> A/V receiver. The receiver does the Digital to Audio conversion so
> there is no sound card involved on the PC side, it talks to the
> receiver via ethernet. Video from current PC to the TV is via HDMI at
> 1080p which is all the TV can handle resolution wise.
>
> The current PC lives in an audio rack to the right of the 65 inch TV
> along with a UPS for the entire system an Gigabit Ethernet Switch and
> a few older and mostly currently not connected to anything components
> like a VHS VCR, and Cassette Tape recorder and a broken CD player. A
> matching audio rack on the left side of the TV has (top to bottom)
> Cable Box, Blue Ray Player, DVD changer, CD changer, A/V receiver, Old
> AV receiver (not currently connected to anything) and at the bottom a
> turntable also not currently connected but planned to connect
> eventually.
>
> Here is one of the cases I was looking at
>
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811163195
>
> or this one
>
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811204037
>
>
> But again, doing nothing isn't killing me at this point either.  It's
> a want more than a need.
>
> GK
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 1:12 PM, Jim Lawrence <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:
>> Hi Gary:
>>
>> Just a note. The better new laptops have more cores, better ventilation,
>> separate RAM for audio and video. This helps stop the CPUs from over
> heating
>> so the fans are not always cutting in. Some of the new computers don't
> even
>> have fans but that just shortens the life of product considerably as they
>> are always over-heating. The only downside is that a good laptop starts at
>> about $800.00. ...of course the audio and video is superior.
>>
>> Jim
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 9:11 AM
>> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day
>>
>> Hi Gustav,
>>
>> Yes Lossless will take up a lot of space but the price of disk has
>> come down over the years. I've only got about 500 CD's and maybe 400
>> vinyl disks in my collection.  But many of my favorite vinyl disks I
>> also have in CD form. I have digitized a few of the LP's I couldn't
>> find on CD and while it's better than not having them in digital form,
>> it is pretty time consuming and takes a fair amount of effort. So I've
>> not done a wholesale import on the vinyl. I've got a single terabyte
>> drive I've dedicated to the music and that seems to have plenty of
>> space for what I need for the foreseeable future.   My biggest concern
>> right now is that the PC I use for storing the music is making too
>> much noise. I'm not sure if it's the power supply fan or the main case
>> fan but it's making more sound than i like. It's a 2004 vintage Dell
>> Dimension and so isn't the fastest machine either although that really
>> doesn't hinder anything excepting the boot time for the most part. So
>> I am currently researching parts to build a new system that will be
>> quieter. I've seen a couple cases that have the look of other stereo
>> equipment and may go that route.
>>
>> All it takes is time and money.  Both are hard to come by though.
>> Once we get through the winter here, time in particular becomes real
>> problem for me.
>>
>> GK
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 9:59 AM, Gustav Brock <gustav at cactus.dk> wrote:
>>> Hi Gary
>>>
>>> To me the distribution is an upcoming project to which no obvious
> solution
>>> exists. For recording I've used the WMA format in its lossless setting
> and
>>> that works quite well but consumes an awful lot of disk space. Ripping
> all
>>> my CDs, not to say my LPs, would be quite expensive. So it is not in the
>>> near future.
>>>
>>> /gustav
>>>
>>> -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
>>> Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>>> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Gary Kjos
>>> Sendt: 20. februar 2013 15:47
>>> Til: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>>> Emne: Re: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day
>>>
>>> Congratulations!  I'm jealous. So nice to have a system that you can play
>> at
>>> any volume level and not need to wonder about distortion or what is being
>>> left out due to sampling constraints etc. I recently bought a new
> receiver
>>> which has networking built in and so could listen to the music on my
> PC's.
>> I
>>> hadn't bought in to the MP3s are noticeably degraded idea and so thought
>> all
>>> would be well and good as I had enjoyed these same tunes via my iPOD and
>>> from memory stick in my vehicle without noticing significant loss of
>>> quality. When I listened to them on the Big System though I certainly
>>> noticed!  So I've since reconverted all my CD's to WAV and am in the
>> process
>>> of doing them again another time using iTUNES Lossless format for playing
>>> via iTUNES Airplay which I like for it's random play capability and have
>>> been enjoying the music as it was intended to be heard again.
>>>
>>> Enjoy your new speakers!
>>>
>>> GK
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Gustav Brock <gustav at cactus.dk> wrote:
>>>> Hi all
>>>>
>>>> More than 30 years ago when in the audio business, two of our clients
>>>> - audio-visual producers - asked for new top-notch monitor speakers
>>>> for their studios. We toured several suppliers listening to the
>>>> well-known brands, quite expensive, and then we stopped by at Technics
>>>> as they had gained much attention due to a major lift in quality.
>>>> That settled it. I still recall how we listened carefully to our
>>>> selection of "difficult" music but our real test was the reproduction
>>>> of high-quality recorded human voice which is far more difficult to
>>>> reproduce than most are aware of. There was no doubt - the SB-7000
>>>> speakers with the phase-correcting speaker alignment were convincing
>>>> and the price couldn't be
>>>> matched:
>>>>
>>>>   http://www.thevintageknob.org/technics-SB-7000.html
>>>>
>>>> At that time I neither had the money nor the space for such speakers
>>>> but ever since I've dreamed of obtaining a set of these. By pure
>>>> accident, Saturday I browsed a local second-hand site, and there they
>>>> were, right in front of me on the screen, at a bargain price - and I
>>>> have the room. Through the years I have struggled with some compact
>>>> wife-friendly speakers - very good of course, but still - nothing
>>>> beats a 15" high-quality speaker (except an 18" but they are so rare).
>>>>
>>>> Now, this set could really be anything - burned out units or
>>>> misbehaved in many ways. So I had to go and listen: I brought some
>>>> music that can bring down most systems and reveal any sort of
>>>> misbehaviour: Chick Corea, My Spanish Heart, and Miles Davis, Tutu, on
>> CD:
>>>>
>>>>   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Spanish_Heart
>>>>
>>>> It was like coming home! They reproduced perfectly and exactly like I
>>>> had imagined with the transparent and completely neutral sound I
>>> remembered.
>>>> They've two owners only, and no disco youngster had succeeded
>>>> destroying them.
>>>> So, today I picked them up and can hardly wait to get home and power
>>>> them up. Should this day come? From time to time I thought No and
>> resigned
>>> ...
>>>> but today: Yes.
>>>>
>>>> Through the years I've kept (some sort of intuition or instinct?) this
>>>> bright Sony amplifier to power them:
>>>>
>>>>   http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-TA-N86B.html
>>>>
>>>> Though I have quite decent equipment to feed this, I might be looking
>>>> for the matching preamp:
>>>>
>>>>   http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-TA-E88B.html
>>>>
>>>> But that's another story.
>>>>
>>>> /gustav
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> dba-Tech mailing list
>>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Gary Kjos
>> garykjos at gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> dba-Tech mailing list
>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> dba-Tech mailing list
>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>
>
> --
> Gary Kjos
> garykjos at gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



-- 
Gary Kjos
garykjos at gmail.com


From garykjos at gmail.com  Wed Feb 20 17:11:53 2013
From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 17:11:53 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day
In-Reply-To: <CAJ2R_pJ_dQUjnXQyZ0tD+_6szGhc=p1iRMU0f20O_nvK_kj=Rw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <00b001ce0f83$38fcff40$aaf6fdc0$@cactus.dk>
	<CAJ2R_pK4CqxOU1pEFx9DSr_93SQ+jNMg+u3e3Cttggxv2mAH0A@mail.gmail.com>
	<9C0B7A250CC9454CACCB39A5AE61E5E4@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<CAJ2R_pLU+zOhJGqgGeU4xXhkhNLOhyDjVAfzx8zj09A1A15NMw@mail.gmail.com>
	<7027906637AE4FA8AC7E373A7AC6EAB4@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<CAJ2R_pJ_dQUjnXQyZ0tD+_6szGhc=p1iRMU0f20O_nvK_kj=Rw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ2R_pKNPOJfQu3H0L5ixhrRdPGB2Hb_EC85jKEDKq=wcPkWSw@mail.gmail.com>

I should have added, this is not a smart TV. Just a plain old DLP rear
projection 1080P Mitusbishi. It needs a separate computer to do web or
other functional things. The Receiver is the switch point for most
things relating to this system. Everything goes in to the receiver,
cable box, optical players, turntable, the computer sound Ethernet
connection and the reciever is then connected to the TV via HDMI the
speakers via wires etc. Exception to this is that computer video out
is connected directly to the second HDMI in on the TV as I couldn't
get the TV to the right resolution when i went through the reciever
with the video signal. I think the auto sensing in the video card and
the up converting in the receiver were confusing each other. So I got
straight from Computer to TV on that one and switch the TV input from
hdmi 1 to hdmi 2 when I want to pop the computer video on the TV.

GK

On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 5:03 PM, Gary Kjos <garykjos at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Jim,
>
> Ahhh I see what you mean. Oh certainly, it could go anyplace and
> connect either wirelessly or by hard wire cable. But do I want to go
> into some corner someplace when I want to rip more CD's?  No.  And I
> am using this PC connected to the big TV to browse the web from time
> to time and can play PC games on it using the Big TV as it's monitor.
> So keeping A PC in proximity to the TV is important to me. Now could
> the files be someplace else?  Sure I guess. But I run a fairly
> distributed computing environment at my house. The Receiver does see
> the other systems that have shared drives.
>
> GK
>
> On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 4:11 PM, Jim Lawrence <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:
>> Hi Gary:
>>
>> You should be able to move the PC to anywhere in your house and either
>> through a network LAN or Wi-Fi connection stream internet or PC/Server data,
>> video, photos and music to your TV. Once your computer can be placed
>> somewhere else, end of fan noise.
>>
>> Have you checked out PS3 media server (http://www.ps3mediaserver.org/)? The
>> cost is very reasonable.
>>
>> Jim
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 11:57 AM
>> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day
>>
>> Hi Jim,
>>
>> I really don' t need a laptop I don't think. This PC is connected to a
>> 65 inch DLP TV in addition to the previously mentioned Yamaha RX-A2020
>> A/V receiver. The receiver does the Digital to Audio conversion so
>> there is no sound card involved on the PC side, it talks to the
>> receiver via ethernet. Video from current PC to the TV is via HDMI at
>> 1080p which is all the TV can handle resolution wise.
>>
>> The current PC lives in an audio rack to the right of the 65 inch TV
>> along with a UPS for the entire system an Gigabit Ethernet Switch and
>> a few older and mostly currently not connected to anything components
>> like a VHS VCR, and Cassette Tape recorder and a broken CD player. A
>> matching audio rack on the left side of the TV has (top to bottom)
>> Cable Box, Blue Ray Player, DVD changer, CD changer, A/V receiver, Old
>> AV receiver (not currently connected to anything) and at the bottom a
>> turntable also not currently connected but planned to connect
>> eventually.
>>
>> Here is one of the cases I was looking at
>>
>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811163195
>>
>> or this one
>>
>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811204037
>>
>>
>> But again, doing nothing isn't killing me at this point either.  It's
>> a want more than a need.
>>
>> GK
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 1:12 PM, Jim Lawrence <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:
>>> Hi Gary:
>>>
>>> Just a note. The better new laptops have more cores, better ventilation,
>>> separate RAM for audio and video. This helps stop the CPUs from over
>> heating
>>> so the fans are not always cutting in. Some of the new computers don't
>> even
>>> have fans but that just shortens the life of product considerably as they
>>> are always over-heating. The only downside is that a good laptop starts at
>>> about $800.00. ...of course the audio and video is superior.
>>>
>>> Jim
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>>> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos
>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 9:11 AM
>>> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>>> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day
>>>
>>> Hi Gustav,
>>>
>>> Yes Lossless will take up a lot of space but the price of disk has
>>> come down over the years. I've only got about 500 CD's and maybe 400
>>> vinyl disks in my collection.  But many of my favorite vinyl disks I
>>> also have in CD form. I have digitized a few of the LP's I couldn't
>>> find on CD and while it's better than not having them in digital form,
>>> it is pretty time consuming and takes a fair amount of effort. So I've
>>> not done a wholesale import on the vinyl. I've got a single terabyte
>>> drive I've dedicated to the music and that seems to have plenty of
>>> space for what I need for the foreseeable future.   My biggest concern
>>> right now is that the PC I use for storing the music is making too
>>> much noise. I'm not sure if it's the power supply fan or the main case
>>> fan but it's making more sound than i like. It's a 2004 vintage Dell
>>> Dimension and so isn't the fastest machine either although that really
>>> doesn't hinder anything excepting the boot time for the most part. So
>>> I am currently researching parts to build a new system that will be
>>> quieter. I've seen a couple cases that have the look of other stereo
>>> equipment and may go that route.
>>>
>>> All it takes is time and money.  Both are hard to come by though.
>>> Once we get through the winter here, time in particular becomes real
>>> problem for me.
>>>
>>> GK
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 9:59 AM, Gustav Brock <gustav at cactus.dk> wrote:
>>>> Hi Gary
>>>>
>>>> To me the distribution is an upcoming project to which no obvious
>> solution
>>>> exists. For recording I've used the WMA format in its lossless setting
>> and
>>>> that works quite well but consumes an awful lot of disk space. Ripping
>> all
>>>> my CDs, not to say my LPs, would be quite expensive. So it is not in the
>>>> near future.
>>>>
>>>> /gustav
>>>>
>>>> -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
>>>> Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>>>> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Gary Kjos
>>>> Sendt: 20. februar 2013 15:47
>>>> Til: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>>>> Emne: Re: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day
>>>>
>>>> Congratulations!  I'm jealous. So nice to have a system that you can play
>>> at
>>>> any volume level and not need to wonder about distortion or what is being
>>>> left out due to sampling constraints etc. I recently bought a new
>> receiver
>>>> which has networking built in and so could listen to the music on my
>> PC's.
>>> I
>>>> hadn't bought in to the MP3s are noticeably degraded idea and so thought
>>> all
>>>> would be well and good as I had enjoyed these same tunes via my iPOD and
>>>> from memory stick in my vehicle without noticing significant loss of
>>>> quality. When I listened to them on the Big System though I certainly
>>>> noticed!  So I've since reconverted all my CD's to WAV and am in the
>>> process
>>>> of doing them again another time using iTUNES Lossless format for playing
>>>> via iTUNES Airplay which I like for it's random play capability and have
>>>> been enjoying the music as it was intended to be heard again.
>>>>
>>>> Enjoy your new speakers!
>>>>
>>>> GK
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Gustav Brock <gustav at cactus.dk> wrote:
>>>>> Hi all
>>>>>
>>>>> More than 30 years ago when in the audio business, two of our clients
>>>>> - audio-visual producers - asked for new top-notch monitor speakers
>>>>> for their studios. We toured several suppliers listening to the
>>>>> well-known brands, quite expensive, and then we stopped by at Technics
>>>>> as they had gained much attention due to a major lift in quality.
>>>>> That settled it. I still recall how we listened carefully to our
>>>>> selection of "difficult" music but our real test was the reproduction
>>>>> of high-quality recorded human voice which is far more difficult to
>>>>> reproduce than most are aware of. There was no doubt - the SB-7000
>>>>> speakers with the phase-correcting speaker alignment were convincing
>>>>> and the price couldn't be
>>>>> matched:
>>>>>
>>>>>   http://www.thevintageknob.org/technics-SB-7000.html
>>>>>
>>>>> At that time I neither had the money nor the space for such speakers
>>>>> but ever since I've dreamed of obtaining a set of these. By pure
>>>>> accident, Saturday I browsed a local second-hand site, and there they
>>>>> were, right in front of me on the screen, at a bargain price - and I
>>>>> have the room. Through the years I have struggled with some compact
>>>>> wife-friendly speakers - very good of course, but still - nothing
>>>>> beats a 15" high-quality speaker (except an 18" but they are so rare).
>>>>>
>>>>> Now, this set could really be anything - burned out units or
>>>>> misbehaved in many ways. So I had to go and listen: I brought some
>>>>> music that can bring down most systems and reveal any sort of
>>>>> misbehaviour: Chick Corea, My Spanish Heart, and Miles Davis, Tutu, on
>>> CD:
>>>>>
>>>>>   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Spanish_Heart
>>>>>
>>>>> It was like coming home! They reproduced perfectly and exactly like I
>>>>> had imagined with the transparent and completely neutral sound I
>>>> remembered.
>>>>> They've two owners only, and no disco youngster had succeeded
>>>>> destroying them.
>>>>> So, today I picked them up and can hardly wait to get home and power
>>>>> them up. Should this day come? From time to time I thought No and
>>> resigned
>>>> ...
>>>>> but today: Yes.
>>>>>
>>>>> Through the years I've kept (some sort of intuition or instinct?) this
>>>>> bright Sony amplifier to power them:
>>>>>
>>>>>   http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-TA-N86B.html
>>>>>
>>>>> Though I have quite decent equipment to feed this, I might be looking
>>>>> for the matching preamp:
>>>>>
>>>>>   http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-TA-E88B.html
>>>>>
>>>>> But that's another story.
>>>>>
>>>>> /gustav
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> dba-Tech mailing list
>>>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Gary Kjos
>>> garykjos at gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> dba-Tech mailing list
>>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> dba-Tech mailing list
>>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Gary Kjos
>> garykjos at gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> dba-Tech mailing list
>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> dba-Tech mailing list
>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>
>
> --
> Gary Kjos
> garykjos at gmail.com



-- 
Gary Kjos
garykjos at gmail.com


From accessd at shaw.ca  Wed Feb 20 18:17:09 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 16:17:09 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day
In-Reply-To: <CAJ2R_pKNPOJfQu3H0L5ixhrRdPGB2Hb_EC85jKEDKq=wcPkWSw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <00b001ce0f83$38fcff40$aaf6fdc0$@cactus.dk><CAJ2R_pK4CqxOU1pEFx9DSr_93SQ+jNMg+u3e3Cttggxv2mAH0A@mail.gmail.com><9C0B7A250CC9454CACCB39A5AE61E5E4@creativesystemdesigns.com><CAJ2R_pLU+zOhJGqgGeU4xXhkhNLOhyDjVAfzx8zj09A1A15NMw@mail.gmail.com><7027906637AE4FA8AC7E373A7AC6EAB4@creativesystemdesigns.com><CAJ2R_pJ_dQUjnXQyZ0tD+_6szGhc=p1iRMU0f20O_nvK_kj=Rw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJ2R_pKNPOJfQu3H0L5ixhrRdPGB2Hb_EC85jKEDKq=wcPkWSw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0474B759D07A46688C8C291093BC4CC5@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Gary:

Nothing like new technology. It is amazing that you managed to achieve all
that functionality without the latest and greatest...my hat off as I know
the challenges well.

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 3:12 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day

I should have added, this is not a smart TV. Just a plain old DLP rear
projection 1080P Mitusbishi. It needs a separate computer to do web or
other functional things. The Receiver is the switch point for most
things relating to this system. Everything goes in to the receiver,
cable box, optical players, turntable, the computer sound Ethernet
connection and the reciever is then connected to the TV via HDMI the
speakers via wires etc. Exception to this is that computer video out
is connected directly to the second HDMI in on the TV as I couldn't
get the TV to the right resolution when i went through the reciever
with the video signal. I think the auto sensing in the video card and
the up converting in the receiver were confusing each other. So I got
straight from Computer to TV on that one and switch the TV input from
hdmi 1 to hdmi 2 when I want to pop the computer video on the TV.

GK

On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 5:03 PM, Gary Kjos <garykjos at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Jim,
>
> Ahhh I see what you mean. Oh certainly, it could go anyplace and
> connect either wirelessly or by hard wire cable. But do I want to go
> into some corner someplace when I want to rip more CD's?  No.  And I
> am using this PC connected to the big TV to browse the web from time
> to time and can play PC games on it using the Big TV as it's monitor.
> So keeping A PC in proximity to the TV is important to me. Now could
> the files be someplace else?  Sure I guess. But I run a fairly
> distributed computing environment at my house. The Receiver does see
> the other systems that have shared drives.
>
> GK
>
> On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 4:11 PM, Jim Lawrence <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:
>> Hi Gary:
>>
>> You should be able to move the PC to anywhere in your house and either
>> through a network LAN or Wi-Fi connection stream internet or PC/Server
data,
>> video, photos and music to your TV. Once your computer can be placed
>> somewhere else, end of fan noise.
>>
>> Have you checked out PS3 media server (http://www.ps3mediaserver.org/)?
The
>> cost is very reasonable.
>>
>> Jim
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 11:57 AM
>> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day
>>
>> Hi Jim,
>>
>> I really don' t need a laptop I don't think. This PC is connected to a
>> 65 inch DLP TV in addition to the previously mentioned Yamaha RX-A2020
>> A/V receiver. The receiver does the Digital to Audio conversion so
>> there is no sound card involved on the PC side, it talks to the
>> receiver via ethernet. Video from current PC to the TV is via HDMI at
>> 1080p which is all the TV can handle resolution wise.
>>
>> The current PC lives in an audio rack to the right of the 65 inch TV
>> along with a UPS for the entire system an Gigabit Ethernet Switch and
>> a few older and mostly currently not connected to anything components
>> like a VHS VCR, and Cassette Tape recorder and a broken CD player. A
>> matching audio rack on the left side of the TV has (top to bottom)
>> Cable Box, Blue Ray Player, DVD changer, CD changer, A/V receiver, Old
>> AV receiver (not currently connected to anything) and at the bottom a
>> turntable also not currently connected but planned to connect
>> eventually.
>>
>> Here is one of the cases I was looking at
>>
>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811163195
>>
>> or this one
>>
>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811204037
>>
>>
>> But again, doing nothing isn't killing me at this point either.  It's
>> a want more than a need.
>>
>> GK
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 1:12 PM, Jim Lawrence <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:
>>> Hi Gary:
>>>
>>> Just a note. The better new laptops have more cores, better ventilation,
>>> separate RAM for audio and video. This helps stop the CPUs from over
>> heating
>>> so the fans are not always cutting in. Some of the new computers don't
>> even
>>> have fans but that just shortens the life of product considerably as
they
>>> are always over-heating. The only downside is that a good laptop starts
at
>>> about $800.00. ...of course the audio and video is superior.
>>>
>>> Jim
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>>> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos
>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 9:11 AM
>>> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>>> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day
>>>
>>> Hi Gustav,
>>>
>>> Yes Lossless will take up a lot of space but the price of disk has
>>> come down over the years. I've only got about 500 CD's and maybe 400
>>> vinyl disks in my collection.  But many of my favorite vinyl disks I
>>> also have in CD form. I have digitized a few of the LP's I couldn't
>>> find on CD and while it's better than not having them in digital form,
>>> it is pretty time consuming and takes a fair amount of effort. So I've
>>> not done a wholesale import on the vinyl. I've got a single terabyte
>>> drive I've dedicated to the music and that seems to have plenty of
>>> space for what I need for the foreseeable future.   My biggest concern
>>> right now is that the PC I use for storing the music is making too
>>> much noise. I'm not sure if it's the power supply fan or the main case
>>> fan but it's making more sound than i like. It's a 2004 vintage Dell
>>> Dimension and so isn't the fastest machine either although that really
>>> doesn't hinder anything excepting the boot time for the most part. So
>>> I am currently researching parts to build a new system that will be
>>> quieter. I've seen a couple cases that have the look of other stereo
>>> equipment and may go that route.
>>>
>>> All it takes is time and money.  Both are hard to come by though.
>>> Once we get through the winter here, time in particular becomes real
>>> problem for me.
>>>
>>> GK
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 9:59 AM, Gustav Brock <gustav at cactus.dk> wrote:
>>>> Hi Gary
>>>>
>>>> To me the distribution is an upcoming project to which no obvious
>> solution
>>>> exists. For recording I've used the WMA format in its lossless setting
>> and
>>>> that works quite well but consumes an awful lot of disk space. Ripping
>> all
>>>> my CDs, not to say my LPs, would be quite expensive. So it is not in
the
>>>> near future.
>>>>
>>>> /gustav
>>>>
>>>> -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
>>>> Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>>>> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Gary Kjos
>>>> Sendt: 20. februar 2013 15:47
>>>> Til: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>>>> Emne: Re: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day
>>>>
>>>> Congratulations!  I'm jealous. So nice to have a system that you can
play
>>> at
>>>> any volume level and not need to wonder about distortion or what is
being
>>>> left out due to sampling constraints etc. I recently bought a new
>> receiver
>>>> which has networking built in and so could listen to the music on my
>> PC's.
>>> I
>>>> hadn't bought in to the MP3s are noticeably degraded idea and so
thought
>>> all
>>>> would be well and good as I had enjoyed these same tunes via my iPOD
and
>>>> from memory stick in my vehicle without noticing significant loss of
>>>> quality. When I listened to them on the Big System though I certainly
>>>> noticed!  So I've since reconverted all my CD's to WAV and am in the
>>> process
>>>> of doing them again another time using iTUNES Lossless format for
playing
>>>> via iTUNES Airplay which I like for it's random play capability and
have
>>>> been enjoying the music as it was intended to be heard again.
>>>>
>>>> Enjoy your new speakers!
>>>>
>>>> GK
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Gustav Brock <gustav at cactus.dk>
wrote:
>>>>> Hi all
>>>>>
>>>>> More than 30 years ago when in the audio business, two of our clients
>>>>> - audio-visual producers - asked for new top-notch monitor speakers
>>>>> for their studios. We toured several suppliers listening to the
>>>>> well-known brands, quite expensive, and then we stopped by at Technics
>>>>> as they had gained much attention due to a major lift in quality.
>>>>> That settled it. I still recall how we listened carefully to our
>>>>> selection of "difficult" music but our real test was the reproduction
>>>>> of high-quality recorded human voice which is far more difficult to
>>>>> reproduce than most are aware of. There was no doubt - the SB-7000
>>>>> speakers with the phase-correcting speaker alignment were convincing
>>>>> and the price couldn't be
>>>>> matched:
>>>>>
>>>>>   http://www.thevintageknob.org/technics-SB-7000.html
>>>>>
>>>>> At that time I neither had the money nor the space for such speakers
>>>>> but ever since I've dreamed of obtaining a set of these. By pure
>>>>> accident, Saturday I browsed a local second-hand site, and there they
>>>>> were, right in front of me on the screen, at a bargain price - and I
>>>>> have the room. Through the years I have struggled with some compact
>>>>> wife-friendly speakers - very good of course, but still - nothing
>>>>> beats a 15" high-quality speaker (except an 18" but they are so rare).
>>>>>
>>>>> Now, this set could really be anything - burned out units or
>>>>> misbehaved in many ways. So I had to go and listen: I brought some
>>>>> music that can bring down most systems and reveal any sort of
>>>>> misbehaviour: Chick Corea, My Spanish Heart, and Miles Davis, Tutu, on
>>> CD:
>>>>>
>>>>>   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Spanish_Heart
>>>>>
>>>>> It was like coming home! They reproduced perfectly and exactly like I
>>>>> had imagined with the transparent and completely neutral sound I
>>>> remembered.
>>>>> They've two owners only, and no disco youngster had succeeded
>>>>> destroying them.
>>>>> So, today I picked them up and can hardly wait to get home and power
>>>>> them up. Should this day come? From time to time I thought No and
>>> resigned
>>>> ...
>>>>> but today: Yes.
>>>>>
>>>>> Through the years I've kept (some sort of intuition or instinct?) this
>>>>> bright Sony amplifier to power them:
>>>>>
>>>>>   http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-TA-N86B.html
>>>>>
>>>>> Though I have quite decent equipment to feed this, I might be looking
>>>>> for the matching preamp:
>>>>>
>>>>>   http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-TA-E88B.html
>>>>>
>>>>> But that's another story.
>>>>>
>>>>> /gustav
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> dba-Tech mailing list
>>>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Gary Kjos
>>> garykjos at gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> dba-Tech mailing list
>>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> dba-Tech mailing list
>>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Gary Kjos
>> garykjos at gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> dba-Tech mailing list
>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> dba-Tech mailing list
>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>
>
> --
> Gary Kjos
> garykjos at gmail.com



-- 
Gary Kjos
garykjos at gmail.com

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Wed Feb 20 18:57:26 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 04:57:26 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech] =?utf-8?q?CQRS_or_6*9_=3D_42?=
Message-ID: <1361408246.792364791@f322.mail.ru>

 Hi All --

I'm considering to try to apply CQRS + ES ( Command & Query Responsibility Segregation ?and  Event Sourcing) ?architectural patterns?

http://www.udidahan.com/2009/12/09/clarified-cqrs/

http://www.udidahan.com/2010/05/07/cqrs-isnt-the-answer-its-just-one-of-the-questions/

in one of my test projects. I'm still to find good practical info on CQRS + ES drawbacks - do you have some?

Thank you.

-- Shamil




From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Thu Feb 21 02:33:30 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 12:33:30 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech] =?utf-8?q?FYI=3A_Introducing_Durandal?=
Message-ID: <1361435610.241451242@f87.mail.ru>

 Hi All --

FYI:

- Built on top of jQuery, Knockout & RequireJS

- Clean MV* Architecture

- Use any Backend Technology

- ...

Read/watch more: http://devlicio.us/blogs/rob_eisenberg/archive/2013/02/18/introducing-durandal.aspx

http://durandaljs.com/

Thank you.

-- Shamil



From gustav at cactus.dk  Thu Feb 21 05:03:53 2013
From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 12:03:53 +0100
Subject: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day
Message-ID: <006d01ce1023$231c9aa0$6955cfe0$@cactus.dk>

Hi Peter

Thanks, sounds like a good idea. I'll check it out.

/gustav

-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Peter Brawley
Sendt: 20. februar 2013 18:30
Til: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Emne: Re: [dba-Tech] OT: A big day

If you can free yourself from Apple's control, FOSS software (like
mediaMonkey and maqny others) losslessly compress CDs to FLAC files, approx
50% of CD filesize; then a small settop box like the Kdlinks
HD700 will stream them all from your server to your receiver or preamp, with
no corporate predator restraining your choices.

PB

------

On 2013-02-20 8:46 AM, Gary Kjos wrote:
> Congratulations!  I'm jealous. So nice to have a system that you can 
> play at any volume level and not need to wonder about distortion or 
> what is being left out due to sampling constraints etc. I recently 
> bought a new receiver which has networking built in and so could 
> listen to the music on my PC's. I hadn't bought in to the MP3s are 
> noticeably degraded idea and so thought all would be well and good as 
> I had enjoyed these same tunes via my iPOD and from memory stick in my 
> vehicle without noticing significant loss of quality. When I listened 
> to them on the Big System though I certainly noticed!  So I've since 
> reconverted all my CD's to WAV and am in the process of doing them 
> again another time using iTUNES Lossless format for playing via iTUNES 
> Airplay which I like for it's random play capability and have been 
> enjoying the music as it was intended to be heard again.
>
> Enjoy your new speakers!
>
> GK
>
> On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Gustav Brock <gustav at cactus.dk> wrote:
>> Hi all
>>
>> More than 30 years ago when in the audio business, two of our clients 
>> - audio-visual producers - asked for new top-notch monitor speakers 
>> for their studios. We toured several suppliers listening to the 
>> well-known brands, quite expensive, and then we stopped by at 
>> Technics as they had gained much attention due to a major lift in
quality.
>> That settled it. I still recall how we listened carefully to our 
>> selection of "difficult" music but our real test was the reproduction 
>> of high-quality recorded human voice which is far more difficult to 
>> reproduce than most are aware of. There was no doubt - the SB-7000 
>> speakers with the phase-correcting speaker alignment were convincing 
>> and the price couldn't be
>> matched:
>>
>>    http://www.thevintageknob.org/technics-SB-7000.html
>>
>> At that time I neither had the money nor the space for such speakers 
>> but ever since I've dreamed of obtaining a set of these. By pure 
>> accident, Saturday I browsed a local second-hand site, and there they 
>> were, right in front of me on the screen, at a bargain price - and I 
>> have the room. Through the years I have struggled with some compact 
>> wife-friendly speakers - very good of course, but still - nothing 
>> beats a 15" high-quality speaker (except an 18" but they are so rare).
>>
>> Now, this set could really be anything - burned out units or 
>> misbehaved in many ways. So I had to go and listen: I brought some 
>> music that can bring down most systems and reveal any sort of 
>> misbehaviour: Chick Corea, My Spanish Heart, and Miles Davis, Tutu, on
CD:
>>
>>    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Spanish_Heart
>>
>> It was like coming home! They reproduced perfectly and exactly like I 
>> had imagined with the transparent and completely neutral sound I
remembered.
>> They've two owners only, and no disco youngster had succeeded 
>> destroying them.
>> So, today I picked them up and can hardly wait to get home and power 
>> them up. Should this day come? From time to time I thought No and
resigned ...
>> but today: Yes.
>>
>> Through the years I've kept (some sort of intuition or instinct?) 
>> this bright Sony amplifier to power them:
>>
>>    http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-TA-N86B.html
>>
>> Though I have quite decent equipment to feed this, I might be looking 
>> for the matching preamp:
>>
>>    http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-TA-E88B.html
>>
>> But that's another story.
>>
>> /gustav
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> dba-Tech mailing list
>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Thu Feb 21 10:21:43 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 20:21:43 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech] =?utf-8?q?CQRS_or_6*9_=3D_42?=
In-Reply-To: <F5B2E2ECEE84F142883A2E6DCA867F9801B6C0FD52@LIVP3MMBX10.mail.aig.net>
References: <1361408246.792364791@f322.mail.ru>
	<F5B2E2ECEE84F142883A2E6DCA867F9801B6C0FD52@LIVP3MMBX10.mail.aig.net>
Message-ID: <1361463703.735698738@f178.mail.ru>

 Hi Lambert --

No, that math is correct but needs some clarifications - so it is just a teaser to get details from the referred articles.

Thank you.

-- Shamil


???????, 21 ??????? 2013, 8:49 -05:00 ?? "Heenan, Lambert" <Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com>:
>"6*9 = 42" - so we have another HHGTG fan!
>
>Lambert :-)
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From:  dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil
>Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 7:57 PM
>To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>Subject: [dba-Tech] CQRS or 6*9 = 42
>
>?Hi All --
>
>I'm considering to try to apply CQRS + ES ( Command & Query Responsibility Segregation ?and  Event Sourcing) ?architectural patterns?
>
>http://www.udidahan.com/2009/12/09/clarified-cqrs/
>
>http://www.udidahan.com/2010/05/07/cqrs-isnt-the-answer-its-just-one-of-the-questions/
>
>in one of my test projects. I'm still to find good practical info on CQRS + ES drawbacks - do you have some?
>
>Thank you.
>
>-- Shamil
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>dba-Tech mailing list
>dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>Website:  http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Thu Feb 21 11:14:28 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 21:14:28 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech] =?utf-8?q?A_Week_With_Nothing_but_the_Surface_Pro?=
Message-ID: <1361466868.273118350@f374.mail.ru>

 Hi All --

FYI: " A Week With Nothing but the Surface Pro"
http://www.wired.com/geekmom/2013/02/surface-pro/6/
Thank you.

-- Shamil?

From accessd at shaw.ca  Thu Feb 21 12:07:01 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 10:07:01 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] CQRS or 6*9 = 42
In-Reply-To: <1361408246.792364791@f322.mail.ru>
References: <1361408246.792364791@f322.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <54E3CA089D7141329E8810D69469C939@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Shamil:

A very interesting subject. 

There are so many questions about how to properly manage data when data is
huge and the number of users are massive. This lends its self to the NoSQL
world of huge data where data can be spread across thousands of servers
being accessed and changed and added to by thousands of users.

I have noticed this latency with Facebook where just running a refresh may
display one set of data then a new refresh and another slightly different
set is presented...and the data isn't new...but all the matching results are
not retrieved at any single time. Multiple refreshes, in a row, seems to
produce the best results. 

So what types of data and database will you use. It will be difficult to
emulate the same set of issues when a system only has limited users and
data...doesn't such tests require a high stressed environment?

But do keep us posted on the scenario and products you will be using to test
these concepts and any significant results you subsequently observe.
  
Jim   

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov
Shamil
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 4:57 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: [dba-Tech] CQRS or 6*9 = 42

 Hi All --

I'm considering to try to apply CQRS + ES ( Command & Query Responsibility
Segregation ?and  Event Sourcing) ?architectural patterns?

http://www.udidahan.com/2009/12/09/clarified-cqrs/

http://www.udidahan.com/2010/05/07/cqrs-isnt-the-answer-its-just-one-of-the-
questions/

in one of my test projects. I'm still to find good practical info on CQRS +
ES drawbacks - do you have some?

Thank you.

-- Shamil



_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From accessd at shaw.ca  Thu Feb 21 12:13:48 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 10:13:48 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] FYI: Introducing Durandal
In-Reply-To: <1361435610.241451242@f87.mail.ru>
References: <1361435610.241451242@f87.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <A191AC0FEE5546DFB9E298DFDF17D598@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Shamil:

Now that is an interesting mashup. 

I will bookmark it and refer to it later...first some samples of code in
production.

Have you built anything with it yet?

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov
Shamil
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 12:34 AM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: [dba-Tech] FYI: Introducing Durandal

 Hi All --

FYI:

- Built on top of jQuery, Knockout & RequireJS

- Clean MV* Architecture

- Use any Backend Technology

- ...

Read/watch more:
http://devlicio.us/blogs/rob_eisenberg/archive/2013/02/18/introducing-durand
al.aspx

http://durandaljs.com/

Thank you.

-- Shamil


_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From accessd at shaw.ca  Thu Feb 21 12:19:13 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 10:19:13 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] FYI: Introducing Durandal
In-Reply-To: <1361435610.241451242@f87.mail.ru>
References: <1361435610.241451242@f87.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <330EDA8277B84C039826D4BDA5C37495@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Shamil:

Their Mimosa package look particularly interesting as it an
enhancement/supplement to Node. 

http://durandaljs.com/documentation/Mimosa.html

My list of projects I want to get involved with, after the middle of March,
keeps getting longer. The problem may be trying to find a client to help pay
for the learning curve. ;-)

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov
Shamil
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 12:34 AM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: [dba-Tech] FYI: Introducing Durandal

 Hi All --

FYI:

- Built on top of jQuery, Knockout & RequireJS

- Clean MV* Architecture

- Use any Backend Technology

- ...

Read/watch more:
http://devlicio.us/blogs/rob_eisenberg/archive/2013/02/18/introducing-durand
al.aspx

http://durandaljs.com/

Thank you.

-- Shamil


_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From accessd at shaw.ca  Thu Feb 21 12:55:25 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 10:55:25 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] A Week With Nothing but the Surface Pro
In-Reply-To: <1361466868.273118350@f374.mail.ru>
References: <1361466868.273118350@f374.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <A671F33832194B19A598A2E02FCB5676@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Shamil:

That review is a good and fair over-view.

He loves the Pen (so would I) and the connectivity but finds issues with the
battery life and the default of too little RAM (Max RAM to start).

I am surprised to see that all the standard packages, mostly not Microsoft's
run on this computer. It is also good to see that Steam Software runs there
as the company's owner had so many issues with how MS controlled their
software store.

The connectivity is great but hardly unusual. I use an old Toshiba Satellite
to manage all my local and remote servers and desktops with little trouble
and if he is a Linux user his experiences should hardly be different.

But in summary, I think it was a fair assessment of the product and the
Surface Pro is far from shabby.

Jim 

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov
Shamil
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 9:14 AM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: [dba-Tech] A Week With Nothing but the Surface Pro

 Hi All --

FYI: " A Week With Nothing but the Surface Pro"
http://www.wired.com/geekmom/2013/02/surface-pro/6/
Thank you.

-- Shamil?
_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Thu Feb 21 13:19:18 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 23:19:18 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech] =?utf-8?q?A_Week_With_Nothing_but_the_Surface_Pro?=
In-Reply-To: <A671F33832194B19A598A2E02FCB5676@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <1361466868.273118350@f374.mail.ru>
	<A671F33832194B19A598A2E02FCB5676@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <1361474358.156015482@f5.mail.ru>

 Hi Jim --

Yes, that seems to be a good and fair overview/real use case: she compares her "Precious" (Surface Pro 4GB) with "The Beast" ( Asus G75VW-DS72 17.3-inch laptop ), and I have here ASUS N76Vz - all she have written about "The Beast" is correct so I dare to suppose that her experience with "Precious" is fair.

Thank you.

-- Shamil


???????, 21 ??????? 2013, 10:55 -08:00 ?? "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca>:
>Hi Shamil:
>
>That review is a good and fair over-view.
>
>He loves the Pen (so would I) and the connectivity but finds issues with the
>battery life and the default of too little RAM (Max RAM to start).
>
>I am surprised to see that all the standard packages, mostly not Microsoft's
>run on this computer. It is also good to see that Steam Software runs there
>as the company's owner had so many issues with how MS controlled their
>software store.
>
>The connectivity is great but hardly unusual. I use an old Toshiba Satellite
>to manage all my local and remote servers and desktops with little trouble
>and if he is a Linux user his experiences should hardly be different.
>
>But in summary, I think it was a fair assessment of the product and the
>Surface Pro is far from shabby.
>
>Jim 
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From:  dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov
>Shamil
>Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 9:14 AM
>To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>Subject: [dba-Tech] A Week With Nothing but the Surface Pro
>
>?Hi All --
>
>FYI: " A Week With Nothing but the Surface Pro"
>http://www.wired.com/geekmom/2013/02/surface-pro/6/
>Thank you.
>
>-- Shamil?
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>dba-Tech mailing list
>dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>Website:  http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Thu Feb 21 13:22:54 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 23:22:54 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech] =?utf-8?q?FYI=3A_Introducing_Durandal?=
In-Reply-To: <330EDA8277B84C039826D4BDA5C37495@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <1361435610.241451242@f87.mail.ru>
	<330EDA8277B84C039826D4BDA5C37495@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <1361474574.510440600@f5.mail.ru>

 Hi Jim --

Yes, the same problem here: to find customers to "sponsor" the learning curve.

No, I haven't yet done anything using Durandal. But they say they will have a Pluralsight course in March 2012 from John Papa (great author) and I'm subscribed to Pluralsight courses so hopefully I will have time to get through that course and its assessment and accompanying sample apps (if any).

Thank you.

-- Shamil


???????, 21 ??????? 2013, 10:19 -08:00 ?? "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca>:
>Hi Shamil:
>
>Their Mimosa package look particularly interesting as it an
>enhancement/supplement to Node. 
>
>http://durandaljs.com/documentation/Mimosa.html
>
>My list of projects I want to get involved with, after the middle of March,
>keeps getting longer. The problem may be trying to find a client to help pay
>for the learning curve. ;-)
>
>Jim
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From:  dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov
>Shamil
>Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 12:34 AM
>To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>Subject: [dba-Tech] FYI: Introducing Durandal
>
>?Hi All --
>
>FYI:
>
>- Built on top of jQuery, Knockout & RequireJS
>
>- Clean MV* Architecture
>
>- Use any Backend Technology
>
>- ...
>
>Read/watch more:
>http://devlicio.us/blogs/rob_eisenberg/archive/2013/02/18/introducing-durand
>al.aspx
>
>http://durandaljs.com/
>
>Thank you.
>
>-- Shamil
>
>
>


From accessd at shaw.ca  Thu Feb 21 13:33:50 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 11:33:50 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] FYI: Introducing Durandal
In-Reply-To: <1361474574.510440600@f5.mail.ru>
References: <1361435610.241451242@f87.mail.ru><330EDA8277B84C039826D4BDA5C37495@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<1361474574.510440600@f5.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <87BA80131FD7492685E3F1219467641D@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Shamil:

Towards the end of March?

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov
Shamil
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 11:23 AM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] FYI: Introducing Durandal

 Hi Jim --

Yes, the same problem here: to find customers to "sponsor" the learning
curve.

No, I haven't yet done anything using Durandal. But they say they will have
a Pluralsight course in March 2012 from John Papa (great author) and I'm
subscribed to Pluralsight courses so hopefully I will have time to get
through that course and its assessment and accompanying sample apps (if
any).

Thank you.

-- Shamil


???????, 21 ??????? 2013, 10:19 -08:00 ?? "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca>:
>Hi Shamil:
>
>Their Mimosa package look particularly interesting as it an
>enhancement/supplement to Node. 
>
>http://durandaljs.com/documentation/Mimosa.html
>
>My list of projects I want to get involved with, after the middle of March,
>keeps getting longer. The problem may be trying to find a client to help
pay
>for the learning curve. ;-)
>
>Jim
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From:  dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov
>Shamil
>Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 12:34 AM
>To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>Subject: [dba-Tech] FYI: Introducing Durandal
>
>?Hi All --
>
>FYI:
>
>- Built on top of jQuery, Knockout & RequireJS
>
>- Clean MV* Architecture
>
>- Use any Backend Technology
>
>- ...
>
>Read/watch more:
>http://devlicio.us/blogs/rob_eisenberg/archive/2013/02/18/introducing-duran
d
>al.aspx
>
>http://durandaljs.com/
>
>Thank you.
>
>-- Shamil
>
>
>

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Thu Feb 21 13:44:30 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 23:44:30 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech] =?utf-8?q?CQRS_or_6*9_=3D_42?=
In-Reply-To: <54E3CA089D7141329E8810D69469C939@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <1361408246.792364791@f322.mail.ru>
	<54E3CA089D7141329E8810D69469C939@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <1361475870.545155468@f45.mail.ru>

 Hi Jim --

Yes, the subject is very interesting and CQRS seems to be a good candidate software design pattern to be used with NoSQL and "Big Data".

The issue is that I can't say I have currently a clear understanding how the subject (CQRS) design pattern should be applied to real life projects where there should be also traditional ORM and CRUD parts (partially) left. The DDD concepts of aggregate root etc. aren't the ones I'm using here everyday/at all. The concept of *eventual consistency and set validation* ( http://codebetter.com/gregyoung/2010/08/12/eventual-consistency-and-set-validation/ ) isn't yet clear how to apply...

... and then when I see coming the new information as the following:

"AWS Launches OpsWorks, A Potential PaaS Disruptor, To Automate App Deployment To The Cloud"
http://techcrunch.com/2013/02/19/aws-launches-opsworks-a-potential-paas-disruptor-to-automate-app-deployment-to-the-cloud/

I'm wondering does it makes sense to get "obsessed" by rather complicated design concepts when the mainstream cloud providers have proven highly scalable applications hosts where custom applications seems to be possible to build from "small bricks" and scale on demand...

So the question is: "6*9 = 42, or KISS - 6*9 = 54 ?"

Thank you.

-- Shamil

???????, 21 ??????? 2013, 10:07 -08:00 ?? "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca>:
>Hi Shamil:
>
>A very interesting subject. 
>
>There are so many questions about how to properly manage data when data is
>huge and the number of users are massive. This lends its self to the NoSQL
>world of huge data where data can be spread across thousands of servers
>being accessed and changed and added to by thousands of users.
>
>I have noticed this latency with Facebook where just running a refresh may
>display one set of data then a new refresh and another slightly different
>set is presented...and the data isn't new...but all the matching results are
>not retrieved at any single time. Multiple refreshes, in a row, seems to
>produce the best results. 
>
>So what types of data and database will you use. It will be difficult to
>emulate the same set of issues when a system only has limited users and
>data...doesn't such tests require a high stressed environment?
>
>But do keep us posted on the scenario and products you will be using to test
>these concepts and any significant results you subsequently observe.
>??
>Jim 
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From:  dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov
>Shamil
>Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 4:57 PM
>To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>Subject: [dba-Tech] CQRS or 6*9 = 42
>
>?Hi All --
>
>I'm considering to try to apply CQRS + ES ( Command & Query Responsibility
>Segregation ?and  Event Sourcing) ?architectural patterns?
>
>http://www.udidahan.com/2009/12/09/clarified-cqrs/
>
>http://www.udidahan.com/2010/05/07/cqrs-isnt-the-answer-its-just-one-of-the-
>questions/
>
>in one of my test projects. I'm still to find good practical info on CQRS +
>ES drawbacks - do you have some?
>
>Thank you.
>
>-- Shamil
>
>

From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Thu Feb 21 14:03:21 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 00:03:21 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech] =?utf-8?q?FYI=3A_Introducing_Durandal?=
In-Reply-To: <87BA80131FD7492685E3F1219467641D@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <1361435610.241451242@f87.mail.ru>
	<1361474574.510440600@f5.mail.ru>
	<87BA80131FD7492685E3F1219467641D@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <1361477001.729859666@f146.mail.ru>

 Hi Jim --

I'm not sure if Durandal course will be published on Pluralsight in the end of March or earlier - there is no yet Durandal course announcement there but have a look:

http://durandaljs.com/pages/videos

"Single Page Apps JumpStart: Beginner level training videos at Pluralsight that step through building a SPA from scratch. Coming in March 2013 from John Papa."

Have a look also at John Papa's Durandal sources at GitHub:

https://github.com/johnpapa/Durandal

forked from

https://github.com/BlueSpire/Durandal

so I'm assuming John Papa is preparing some stuff for a Pluralsight course.
If you search GitHob for a 'Durandal' keyword you'll find some other related projects.

-- Shamil

???????, 21 ??????? 2013, 11:33 -08:00 ?? "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca>:
>Hi Shamil:
>
>Towards the end of March?
>
>Jim
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From:  dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov
>Shamil
>Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 11:23 AM
>To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] FYI: Introducing Durandal
>
>?Hi Jim --
>
>Yes, the same problem here: to find customers to "sponsor" the learning
>curve.
>
>No, I haven't yet done anything using Durandal. But they say they will have
>a Pluralsight course in March 2012 from John Papa (great author) and I'm
>subscribed to Pluralsight courses so hopefully I will have time to get
>through that course and its assessment and accompanying sample apps (if
>any).
>
>Thank you.
>
>-- Shamil
>
>
>???????, 21 ??????? 2013, 10:19 -08:00 ?? "Jim Lawrence" < accessd at shaw.ca >:
>>Hi Shamil:
>>
>>Their Mimosa package look particularly interesting as it an
>>enhancement/supplement to Node. 
>>
>> http://durandaljs.com/documentation/Mimosa.html
>>
>>My list of projects I want to get involved with, after the middle of March,
>>keeps getting longer. The problem may be trying to find a client to help
>pay
>>for the learning curve. ;-)
>>
>>Jim
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From:  dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>>[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov
>>Shamil
>>Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 12:34 AM
>>To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>>Subject: [dba-Tech] FYI: Introducing Durandal
>>
>>?Hi All --
>>
>>FYI:
>>
>>- Built on top of jQuery, Knockout & RequireJS
>>
>>- Clean MV* Architecture
>>
>>- Use any Backend Technology
>>
>>- ...
>>
>>Read/watch more:
>> http://devlicio.us/blogs/rob_eisenberg/archive/2013/02/18/introducing-duran
>d
>>al.aspx
>>
>> http://durandaljs.com/
>>
>>Thank you.
>>
>>-- Shamil
>>
>>
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>dba-Tech mailing list
>dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>Website:  http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>dba-Tech mailing list
>dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>Website:  http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Thu Feb 21 17:15:15 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 03:15:15 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech] =?utf-8?q?CQRS_or_6*9_=3D_42?=
In-Reply-To: <1361475870.545155468@f45.mail.ru>
References: <1361408246.792364791@f322.mail.ru>
	<54E3CA089D7141329E8810D69469C939@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<1361475870.545155468@f45.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <1361488515.944466947@f271.mail.ru>

 Hi All --

FYI: I have found CQRS course on Pluralsight:

http://pluralsight.com/training/Courses/ExerciseFiles/cqrs-theory-practice

It has exercise files containing several Visual Studio sample solutions.

Here is a useful link on the subject:

http://dbpedias.com/wiki/NoSQL:Consistency_Models_in_Non-Relational_Databases


Thank you.

-- Shamil

???????, 21 ??????? 2013, 23:44 +04:00 ?? Salakhetdinov Shamil <mcp2004 at mail.ru>:
>Hi Jim --
>
>Yes, the subject is very interesting and CQRS seems to be a good candidate software design pattern to be used with NoSQL and "Big Data".
>
>The issue is that I can't say I have currently a clear understanding how the subject (CQRS) design pattern should be applied to real life projects where there should be also traditional ORM and CRUD parts (partially) left. The DDD concepts of aggregate root etc. aren't the ones I'm using here everyday/at all. The concept of *eventual consistency and set validation* (  http://codebetter.com/gregyoung/2010/08/12/eventual-consistency-and-set-validation/ ) isn't yet clear how to apply...
>
>... and then when I see coming the new information as the following:
>
>"AWS Launches OpsWorks, A Potential PaaS Disruptor, To Automate App Deployment To The Cloud"
>http://techcrunch.com/2013/02/19/aws-launches-opsworks-a-potential-paas-disruptor-to-automate-app-deployment-to-the-cloud/
>
>I'm wondering does it makes sense to get "obsessed" by rather complicated design concepts when the mainstream cloud providers have proven highly scalable applications hosts where custom applications seems to be possible to build from "small bricks" and scale on demand...
>
>So the question is: "6*9 = 42, or KISS - 6*9 = 54 ?"
>
>Thank you.
>
>-- Shamil
>
>???????, 21 ??????? 2013, 10:07 -08:00 ?? "Jim Lawrence" < accessd at shaw.ca >:
>>Hi Shamil:
>>
>>A very interesting subject. 
>>
>>There are so many questions about how to properly manage data when data is
>>huge and the number of users are massive. This lends its self to the NoSQL
>>world of huge data where data can be spread across thousands of servers
>>being accessed and changed and added to by thousands of users.
>>
>>I have noticed this latency with Facebook where just running a refresh may
>>display one set of data then a new refresh and another slightly different
>>set is presented...and the data isn't new...but all the matching results are
>>not retrieved at any single time. Multiple refreshes, in a row, seems to
>>produce the best results. 
>>
>>So what types of data and database will you use. It will be difficult to
>>emulate the same set of issues when a system only has limited users and
>>data...doesn't such tests require a high stressed environment?
>>
>>But do keep us posted on the scenario and products you will be using to test
>>these concepts and any significant results you subsequently observe.
>>??
>>Jim 
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From:  dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>>[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov
>>Shamil
>>Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 4:57 PM
>>To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>>Subject: [dba-Tech] CQRS or 6*9 = 42
>>
>>?Hi All --
>>
>>I'm considering to try to apply CQRS + ES ( Command & Query Responsibility
>>Segregation ?and  Event Sourcing) ?architectural patterns?
>>
>> http://www.udidahan.com/2009/12/09/clarified-cqrs/
>>
>> http://www.udidahan.com/2010/05/07/cqrs-isnt-the-answer-its-just-one-of-the-
>>questions/
>>
>>in one of my test projects. I'm still to find good practical info on CQRS +
>>ES drawbacks - do you have some?
>>
>>Thank you.
>>
>>-- Shamil
>>
>>
>_______________________________________________
>dba-Tech mailing list
>dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>Website:  http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From accessd at shaw.ca  Fri Feb 22 14:49:38 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 12:49:38 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Repairing the Surface Pro
In-Reply-To: <1361488515.944466947@f271.mail.ru>
References: <1361408246.792364791@f322.mail.ru><54E3CA089D7141329E8810D69469C939@creativesystemdesigns.com><1361475870.545155468@f45.mail.ru>
	<1361488515.944466947@f271.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <1E225AE94C9D4DC0B2756E9018AB62E0@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi All:

Here is an interesting article on the difficulties of repairing your Surface
Pro. You wouldn't be taking it apart to add new memory, batteries, hard
drives or even just cleaning out dust from the ventilation ports.

How bad is it?...It is being compared to the Ultrabook which has been called
the most unrepairable piece of equipment on the market.

http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/cracking-open/difficult-to-repair-surface-p
ro-built-more-like-an-ultrabook-than-a-tablet/938?tag=nl.e101&s_cid=e101&tta
g=e101

This article might be well worth saving for those purchasing such a product.

Jim


From accessd at shaw.ca  Fri Feb 22 15:24:42 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 13:24:42 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Play Games
In-Reply-To: <1361488515.944466947@f271.mail.ru>
References: <1361408246.792364791@f322.mail.ru><54E3CA089D7141329E8810D69469C939@creativesystemdesigns.com><1361475870.545155468@f45.mail.ru>
	<1361488515.944466947@f271.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <B0DA2342066845B3ADAD851EAB11702D@creativesystemdesigns.com>

So you want to play games on your Debian (Ubuntu) box and want to get setup.


Below is a article telling you how to do this. Unlike other Operating
Systems in which things either work or they don't work; no problem...just a
few tweaks and you are on your way. 

http://www.yannbane.com/2013/02/how-to-steam-on-linux-debian-70.html

I am not a game player but have heard from others that the Steam engine on
Ubuntu is fast and stable...and the games, downloaded through the menuing or
store are very reasonably priced.

Jim  


From hans.andersen at phulse.com  Fri Feb 22 15:25:29 2013
From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 13:25:29 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Repairing the Surface Pro
In-Reply-To: <1E225AE94C9D4DC0B2756E9018AB62E0@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <1361408246.792364791@f322.mail.ru>
	<54E3CA089D7141329E8810D69469C939@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<1361475870.545155468@f45.mail.ru>
	<1361488515.944466947@f271.mail.ru>
	<1E225AE94C9D4DC0B2756E9018AB62E0@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <16995B7C-FDEF-48E4-A0CA-2AAA17D065D7@phulse.com>

Thats not really surprising. It's a tablet, not a PC. If it is to function as a tablet, then you have to expect this sort of trade off in order to have something portable enough to be a tablet. If you want something fully upgradable, you should buy a PC. If you only care to upgrade ram and hard drive, get a regular laptop.

- Hans


On 2013-02-22, at 12:49 PM, "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:

> Hi All:
> 
> Here is an interesting article on the difficulties of repairing your Surface
> Pro. You wouldn't be taking it apart to add new memory, batteries, hard
> drives or even just cleaning out dust from the ventilation ports.
> 
> How bad is it?...It is being compared to the Ultrabook which has been called
> the most unrepairable piece of equipment on the market.
> 
> http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/cracking-open/difficult-to-repair-surface-p
> ro-built-more-like-an-ultrabook-than-a-tablet/938?tag=nl.e101&s_cid=e101&tta
> g=e101
> 
> This article might be well worth saving for those purchasing such a product.
> 
> Jim
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From accessd at shaw.ca  Fri Feb 22 15:39:54 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 13:39:54 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Map Reduce to SQL
In-Reply-To: <1361488515.944466947@f271.mail.ru>
References: <1361408246.792364791@f322.mail.ru><54E3CA089D7141329E8810D69469C939@creativesystemdesigns.com><1361475870.545155468@f45.mail.ru>
	<1361488515.944466947@f271.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <E91ED9C56F7245BF8924D3500729F21F@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi All:

There have been many companies (and developers) out there who have wanted to
become more serious with Map Reduce or NoSQL databases but the learning
curve has been a challenge.

Now there are starting to emerge a series of products that can help. What if
you could just code in SQL format and the code would be appropriately
translated as to query against a full host of distributive NoSQL DBs. If
you, like I, see this as a good first step towards becoming Map Reduce guru,
check out the following article. Many of the described products are OSS so
even a developer on a budget, can get in the game.

http://gigaom.com/2013/02/21/sql-is-whats-next-for-hadoop-heres-whos-doing-i
t/

Jim  


From accessd at shaw.ca  Fri Feb 22 15:43:54 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 13:43:54 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Repairing the Surface Pro
In-Reply-To: <16995B7C-FDEF-48E4-A0CA-2AAA17D065D7@phulse.com>
References: <1361408246.792364791@f322.mail.ru><54E3CA089D7141329E8810D69469C939@creativesystemdesigns.com><1361475870.545155468@f45.mail.ru><1361488515.944466947@f271.mail.ru><1E225AE94C9D4DC0B2756E9018AB62E0@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<16995B7C-FDEF-48E4-A0CA-2AAA17D065D7@phulse.com>
Message-ID: <FC4F9912F8EB4A9BB42222410B1D5EEE@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Hans:

...and that is why real PCs will never die. Who wants very expensive items
that can not be fixed...that are just throw-aways like a cheap BIC pen? ;-)

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian
Andersen
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2013 1:25 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Repairing the Surface Pro

Thats not really surprising. It's a tablet, not a PC. If it is to function
as a tablet, then you have to expect this sort of trade off in order to have
something portable enough to be a tablet. If you want something fully
upgradable, you should buy a PC. If you only care to upgrade ram and hard
drive, get a regular laptop.

- Hans


On 2013-02-22, at 12:49 PM, "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:

> Hi All:
> 
> Here is an interesting article on the difficulties of repairing your
Surface
> Pro. You wouldn't be taking it apart to add new memory, batteries, hard
> drives or even just cleaning out dust from the ventilation ports.
> 
> How bad is it?...It is being compared to the Ultrabook which has been
called
> the most unrepairable piece of equipment on the market.
> 
>
http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/cracking-open/difficult-to-repair-surface-p
>
ro-built-more-like-an-ultrabook-than-a-tablet/938?tag=nl.e101&s_cid=e101&tta
> g=e101
> 
> This article might be well worth saving for those purchasing such a
product.
> 
> Jim
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From hans.andersen at phulse.com  Fri Feb 22 15:57:05 2013
From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 13:57:05 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Repairing the Surface Pro
In-Reply-To: <FC4F9912F8EB4A9BB42222410B1D5EEE@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <1361408246.792364791@f322.mail.ru>
	<54E3CA089D7141329E8810D69469C939@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<1361475870.545155468@f45.mail.ru> <1361488515.944466947@f271.mail.ru>
	<1E225AE94C9D4DC0B2756E9018AB62E0@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<16995B7C-FDEF-48E4-A0CA-2AAA17D065D7@phulse.com>
	<FC4F9912F8EB4A9BB42222410B1D5EEE@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <CAFj0BAyWw2p86VGRXUTP5mYRTiTTdtibFKqRJ875hR3=Vau7OA@mail.gmail.com>

Who ever said PC's will die?

- Hans

*

Hans-Christian Andersen
**Web Application Developer, Vancouver, Canada*


E: hans at phulse.com
T: +44 (0)20 7193 7841
L: http://uk.linkedin.com/in/andersenhc
http://www.nokenode.com/

*Unique Gifts, Collectables, Artwork*
*Come one, come all to.... *www.corinnajasmine.com
*
*



On 22 February 2013 13:43, Jim Lawrence <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:

> Hi Hans:
>
> ...and that is why real PCs will never die. Who wants very expensive items
> that can not be fixed...that are just throw-aways like a cheap BIC pen? ;-)
>
> Jim
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian
> Andersen
> Sent: Friday, February 22, 2013 1:25 PM
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Repairing the Surface Pro
>
> Thats not really surprising. It's a tablet, not a PC. If it is to function
> as a tablet, then you have to expect this sort of trade off in order to
> have
> something portable enough to be a tablet. If you want something fully
> upgradable, you should buy a PC. If you only care to upgrade ram and hard
> drive, get a regular laptop.
>
> - Hans
>
>
> On 2013-02-22, at 12:49 PM, "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:
>
> > Hi All:
> >
> > Here is an interesting article on the difficulties of repairing your
> Surface
> > Pro. You wouldn't be taking it apart to add new memory, batteries, hard
> > drives or even just cleaning out dust from the ventilation ports.
> >
> > How bad is it?...It is being compared to the Ultrabook which has been
> called
> > the most unrepairable piece of equipment on the market.
> >
> >
>
> http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/cracking-open/difficult-to-repair-surface-p
> >
>
> ro-built-more-like-an-ultrabook-than-a-tablet/938?tag=nl.e101&s_cid=e101&tta
> > g=e101
> >
> > This article might be well worth saving for those purchasing such a
> product.
> >
> > Jim
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > dba-Tech mailing list
> > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>

From peter.brawley at earthlink.net  Fri Feb 22 16:00:29 2013
From: peter.brawley at earthlink.net (Peter Brawley)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 16:00:29 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] Repairing the Surface Pro
In-Reply-To: <1E225AE94C9D4DC0B2756E9018AB62E0@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <1361408246.792364791@f322.mail.ru><54E3CA089D7141329E8810D69469C939@creativesystemdesigns.com><1361475870.545155468@f45.mail.ru>
	<1361488515.944466947@f271.mail.ru>
	<1E225AE94C9D4DC0B2756E9018AB62E0@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <5127EA7D.40405@earthlink.net>


On 2013-02-22 2:49 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote:
> Hi All:
>
> Here is an interesting article on the difficulties of repairing your Surface
> Pro. You wouldn't be taking it apart to add new memory, batteries, hard
> drives or even just cleaning out dust from the ventilation ports.
>
> How bad is it?...It is being compared to the Ultrabook which has been called
> the most unrepairable piece of equipment on the market.
>
> http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/cracking-open/difficult-to-repair-surface-p
> ro-built-more-like-an-ultrabook-than-a-tablet/938?tag=nl.e101&s_cid=e101&tta
> g=e101

Aren't most tablets built like that?

PB

-----

>
> This article might be well worth saving for those purchasing such a product.
>
> Jim
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>


From accessd at shaw.ca  Fri Feb 22 16:09:01 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 14:09:01 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Repairing the Surface Pro
In-Reply-To: <5127EA7D.40405@earthlink.net>
References: <1361408246.792364791@f322.mail.ru><54E3CA089D7141329E8810D69469C939@creativesystemdesigns.com><1361475870.545155468@f45.mail.ru><1361488515.944466947@f271.mail.ru><1E225AE94C9D4DC0B2756E9018AB62E0@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<5127EA7D.40405@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <563828D784B14BEEB532EE81C97B5726@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Peter:

To my way of thinking it still doesn't make it acceptable... a thousand
bucks for a throw-away seems excessive to me.

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Peter Brawley
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2013 2:00 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Repairing the Surface Pro


On 2013-02-22 2:49 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote:
> Hi All:
>
> Here is an interesting article on the difficulties of repairing your
Surface
> Pro. You wouldn't be taking it apart to add new memory, batteries, hard
> drives or even just cleaning out dust from the ventilation ports.
>
> How bad is it?...It is being compared to the Ultrabook which has been
called
> the most unrepairable piece of equipment on the market.
>
>
http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/cracking-open/difficult-to-repair-surface-p
>
ro-built-more-like-an-ultrabook-than-a-tablet/938?tag=nl.e101&s_cid=e101&tta
> g=e101

Aren't most tablets built like that?

PB

-----

>
> This article might be well worth saving for those purchasing such a
product.
>
> Jim
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From peter.brawley at earthlink.net  Fri Feb 22 16:51:55 2013
From: peter.brawley at earthlink.net (Peter Brawley)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 16:51:55 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] Repairing the Surface Pro
In-Reply-To: <563828D784B14BEEB532EE81C97B5726@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <1361408246.792364791@f322.mail.ru><54E3CA089D7141329E8810D69469C939@creativesystemdesigns.com><1361475870.545155468@f45.mail.ru><1361488515.944466947@f271.mail.ru><1E225AE94C9D4DC0B2756E9018AB62E0@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<5127EA7D.40405@earthlink.net>
	<563828D784B14BEEB532EE81C97B5726@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <5127F68B.8010609@earthlink.net>

On 2013-02-22 4:09 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote:
> Hi Peter:
>
> To my way of thinking it still doesn't make it acceptable... a thousand
> bucks for a throw-away seems excessive to me.

Oh I see, $1K, yikes, that's a lotta money for a tablet. I paid $225 a 
year ago for my Android 4 tablet, it's still working fine, and for that 
money I don't expect top be able to go in and replace parts.

PB

>
> Jim
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Peter Brawley
> Sent: Friday, February 22, 2013 2:00 PM
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Repairing the Surface Pro
>
>
> On 2013-02-22 2:49 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote:
>> Hi All:
>>
>> Here is an interesting article on the difficulties of repairing your
> Surface
>> Pro. You wouldn't be taking it apart to add new memory, batteries, hard
>> drives or even just cleaning out dust from the ventilation ports.
>>
>> How bad is it?...It is being compared to the Ultrabook which has been
> called
>> the most unrepairable piece of equipment on the market.
>>
>>
> http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/cracking-open/difficult-to-repair-surface-p
> ro-built-more-like-an-ultrabook-than-a-tablet/938?tag=nl.e101&s_cid=e101&tta
>> g=e101
> Aren't most tablets built like that?
>
> PB
>
> -----
>
>> This article might be well worth saving for those purchasing such a
> product.
>> Jim
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> dba-Tech mailing list
>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>


From john at winhaven.net  Fri Feb 22 17:10:03 2013
From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 17:10:03 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] Repairing the Surface Pro
In-Reply-To: <1E225AE94C9D4DC0B2756E9018AB62E0@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <1361408246.792364791@f322.mail.ru><54E3CA089D7141329E8810D69469C939@creativesystemdesigns.com><1361475870.545155468@f45.mail.ru>	<1361488515.944466947@f271.mail.ru>
	<1E225AE94C9D4DC0B2756E9018AB62E0@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <008201ce1151$bf5428f0$3dfc7ad0$@winhaven.net>

For what you get for the price versus a high end Android Tablet or an iPad I
think I would still prefer the Surface. None of the are easy to do anything
with. Although they are serviceable notebooks are a big PITA to work on too!

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2013 2:50 PM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: [dba-Tech] Repairing the Surface Pro

Hi All:

Here is an interesting article on the difficulties of repairing your Surface
Pro. You wouldn't be taking it apart to add new memory, batteries, hard
drives or even just cleaning out dust from the ventilation ports.

How bad is it?...It is being compared to the Ultrabook which has been called
the most unrepairable piece of equipment on the market.

http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/cracking-open/difficult-to-repair-surface-p
ro-built-more-like-an-ultrabook-than-a-tablet/938?tag=nl.e101&s_cid=e101&tta
g=e101

This article might be well worth saving for those purchasing such a product.

Jim

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Fri Feb 22 17:47:19 2013
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2013 09:47:19 +1000
Subject: [dba-Tech] Are you ready to base your business on the Cloud yet?
In-Reply-To: <008201ce1151$bf5428f0$3dfc7ad0$@winhaven.net>
References: <1361408246.792364791@f322.mail.ru>,
	<1E225AE94C9D4DC0B2756E9018AB62E0@creativesystemdesigns.com>,
	<008201ce1151$bf5428f0$3dfc7ad0$@winhaven.net>
Message-ID: <51280387.691.4CFD5D6F@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

Yet another fail:
Microsoft secure Azure Storage goes down WORLDWIDE

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/02/22/azure_problem_that_should_never_happen_ever/





From hans.andersen at phulse.com  Fri Feb 22 18:15:51 2013
From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 16:15:51 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Are you ready to base your business on the Cloud yet?
In-Reply-To: <51280387.691.4CFD5D6F@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
References: <1361408246.792364791@f322.mail.ru>
	<1E225AE94C9D4DC0B2756E9018AB62E0@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<008201ce1151$bf5428f0$3dfc7ad0$@winhaven.net>
	<51280387.691.4CFD5D6F@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
Message-ID: <7EFBAF34-E770-4C90-951C-694B46F59945@phulse.com>

Epic fail! It's one thing to have downtime. Even Amazon AWS has its bad days, but its breathtaking that a cloud hosting service could go completely down because of an expires HTTPS certificate. Heads will roll for this, for sure, but its surprising that a single thing can bring down an entire system. Did they not consider any contingency plans?

- Hans


On 2013-02-22, at 3:47 PM, "Stuart McLachlan" <stuart at lexacorp.com.pg> wrote:

> Yet another fail:
> Microsoft secure Azure Storage goes down WORLDWIDE
> 
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/02/22/azure_problem_that_should_never_happen_ever/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From accessd at shaw.ca  Sat Feb 23 11:04:22 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2013 09:04:22 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Repairing the Surface Pro
In-Reply-To: <008201ce1151$bf5428f0$3dfc7ad0$@winhaven.net>
References: <1361408246.792364791@f322.mail.ru><54E3CA089D7141329E8810D69469C939@creativesystemdesigns.com><1361475870.545155468@f45.mail.ru>	<1361488515.944466947@f271.mail.ru><1E225AE94C9D4DC0B2756E9018AB62E0@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<008201ce1151$bf5428f0$3dfc7ad0$@winhaven.net>
Message-ID: <61563A3D32A14E09A42F7B7B2C6EA2C1@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi John:

PITA, you will have disagreement from me. 

The last note book I took apart had a good 40 screws and 8 different sizes
and that was just to remove the back. I always lay a sheet of graph paper
out on the desk and draw and number all the holes given the associated screw
codes, making note of the disassembly order as there is no standard and try
to remember to pay special attention so as not to lose those little plastic
wedges.

I would like to think that these new tablets should be at least as
serviceable as any cell phone.

Jim 

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2013 3:10 PM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Repairing the Surface Pro

For what you get for the price versus a high end Android Tablet or an iPad I
think I would still prefer the Surface. None of the are easy to do anything
with. Although they are serviceable notebooks are a big PITA to work on too!

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2013 2:50 PM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: [dba-Tech] Repairing the Surface Pro

Hi All:

Here is an interesting article on the difficulties of repairing your Surface
Pro. You wouldn't be taking it apart to add new memory, batteries, hard
drives or even just cleaning out dust from the ventilation ports.

How bad is it?...It is being compared to the Ultrabook which has been called
the most unrepairable piece of equipment on the market.

http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/cracking-open/difficult-to-repair-surface-p
ro-built-more-like-an-ultrabook-than-a-tablet/938?tag=nl.e101&s_cid=e101&tta
g=e101

This article might be well worth saving for those purchasing such a product.

Jim

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From accessd at shaw.ca  Sat Feb 23 11:21:21 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2013 09:21:21 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Are you ready to base your business on the Cloud yet?
In-Reply-To: <51280387.691.4CFD5D6F@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
References: <1361408246.792364791@f322.mail.ru>,
	<1E225AE94C9D4DC0B2756E9018AB62E0@creativesystemdesigns.com>,
	<008201ce1151$bf5428f0$3dfc7ad0$@winhaven.net>
	<51280387.691.4CFD5D6F@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
Message-ID: <6127E11347714F5AAA42E82D54F82EC1@creativesystemdesigns.com>

I would suspect these disasters will happen on any/all Cloud services.

The Cloud is still in its infancy and their network is astronomically
complex. It is like anything mechanical, you can not just turn it on and
walk away. Overall I would suspect that there is insufficient IT staff to
properly manage such a system...that is always the problem. 

I have never heard of a network that has not crashed for one reason of
another...that is a universal truth. Everyone has to accept that reality but
there also has to be redundancy, fail-overs and backups built into every
system...not for "if" but "when".

Under staffed and under supported would be my call...hire more techs and
fire those guys in accounts. ;-)  

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2013 3:47 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: [dba-Tech] Are you ready to base your business on the Cloud yet?

Yet another fail:
Microsoft secure Azure Storage goes down WORLDWIDE

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/02/22/azure_problem_that_should_never_happ
en_ever/




_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From accessd at shaw.ca  Sat Feb 23 11:41:10 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2013 09:41:10 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] At the Microsoft store
In-Reply-To: <E91ED9C56F7245BF8924D3500729F21F@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <1361408246.792364791@f322.mail.ru><54E3CA089D7141329E8810D69469C939@creativesystemdesigns.com><1361475870.545155468@f45.mail.ru><1361488515.944466947@f271.mail.ru>
	<E91ED9C56F7245BF8924D3500729F21F@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <2C2867D3C8A1458BBE18BE0116D91AFC@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi All:

Microsoft is releasing thousands of code samples for their new browser
(environment?). For those with a Surface Pro this link might prove
interesting and educational.

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/codefx/archive/2013/02/20/releasing-sample-browser-f
or-windows-8-get-your-hands-on-5000-amazing-code-samples.aspx

Jim


From hans.andersen at phulse.com  Sat Feb 23 17:08:03 2013
From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen)
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2013 15:08:03 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Repairing the Surface Pro
In-Reply-To: <61563A3D32A14E09A42F7B7B2C6EA2C1@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <1361408246.792364791@f322.mail.ru>
	<54E3CA089D7141329E8810D69469C939@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<1361475870.545155468@f45.mail.ru>
	<1361488515.944466947@f271.mail.ru>
	<1E225AE94C9D4DC0B2756E9018AB62E0@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<008201ce1151$bf5428f0$3dfc7ad0$@winhaven.net>
	<61563A3D32A14E09A42F7B7B2C6EA2C1@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <8E365D6B-7EC8-4CF4-AD97-703B0113FF31@phulse.com>

I've never met a cell phone that is serviceable. Never since my first cellphone in 1996...

40 screws on a laptop? The last laptop I took apart only had 8.

Best regards,
Hans-Christian Andersen


On 23 Feb 2013, at 09:04, "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:

> Hi John:
> 
> PITA, you will have disagreement from me. 
> 
> The last note book I took apart had a good 40 screws and 8 different sizes
> and that was just to remove the back. I always lay a sheet of graph paper
> out on the desk and draw and number all the holes given the associated screw
> codes, making note of the disassembly order as there is no standard and try
> to remember to pay special attention so as not to lose those little plastic
> wedges.
> 
> I would like to think that these new tablets should be at least as
> serviceable as any cell phone.
> 
> Jim 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow
> Sent: Friday, February 22, 2013 3:10 PM
> To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Repairing the Surface Pro
> 
> For what you get for the price versus a high end Android Tablet or an iPad I
> think I would still prefer the Surface. None of the are easy to do anything
> with. Although they are serviceable notebooks are a big PITA to work on too!
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence
> Sent: Friday, February 22, 2013 2:50 PM
> To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
> Subject: [dba-Tech] Repairing the Surface Pro
> 
> Hi All:
> 
> Here is an interesting article on the difficulties of repairing your Surface
> Pro. You wouldn't be taking it apart to add new memory, batteries, hard
> drives or even just cleaning out dust from the ventilation ports.
> 
> How bad is it?...It is being compared to the Ultrabook which has been called
> the most unrepairable piece of equipment on the market.
> 
> http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/cracking-open/difficult-to-repair-surface-p
> ro-built-more-like-an-ultrabook-than-a-tablet/938?tag=nl.e101&s_cid=e101&tta
> g=e101
> 
> This article might be well worth saving for those purchasing such a product.
> 
> Jim
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From accessd at shaw.ca  Sat Feb 23 22:55:21 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2013 20:55:21 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Repairing the Surface Pro
In-Reply-To: <8E365D6B-7EC8-4CF4-AD97-703B0113FF31@phulse.com>
References: <1361408246.792364791@f322.mail.ru><54E3CA089D7141329E8810D69469C939@creativesystemdesigns.com><1361475870.545155468@f45.mail.ru><1361488515.944466947@f271.mail.ru><1E225AE94C9D4DC0B2756E9018AB62E0@creativesystemdesigns.com><008201ce1151$bf5428f0$3dfc7ad0$@winhaven.net><61563A3D32A14E09A42F7B7B2C6EA2C1@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<8E365D6B-7EC8-4CF4-AD97-703B0113FF31@phulse.com>
Message-ID: <55A306B8D516410380F60029B945ED35@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Hans:

You must have a awfully weird cell phone. ;-) It looks like Apple has
improved since the older models:

http://www.techrepublic.com/photos/cracking-open-the-apple-iphone-5/6385769

My Samsung has a pop-off back and from there everything can be removed right
up to the screen. Mind you if you have broken your screen you can either
heat-gun the screen off or better yet take it to your service depot and let
them do it. ;-)

Obviously you haven't lived until you start pulling apart other laptops
other than Apples...

Jim 

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian
Andersen
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 3:08 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Repairing the Surface Pro

I've never met a cell phone that is serviceable. Never since my first
cellphone in 1996...

40 screws on a laptop? The last laptop I took apart only had 8.

Best regards,
Hans-Christian Andersen


On 23 Feb 2013, at 09:04, "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:

> Hi John:
> 
> PITA, you will have disagreement from me. 
> 
> The last note book I took apart had a good 40 screws and 8 different sizes
> and that was just to remove the back. I always lay a sheet of graph paper
> out on the desk and draw and number all the holes given the associated
screw
> codes, making note of the disassembly order as there is no standard and
try
> to remember to pay special attention so as not to lose those little
plastic
> wedges.
> 
> I would like to think that these new tablets should be at least as
> serviceable as any cell phone.
> 
> Jim 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow
> Sent: Friday, February 22, 2013 3:10 PM
> To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Repairing the Surface Pro
> 
> For what you get for the price versus a high end Android Tablet or an iPad
I
> think I would still prefer the Surface. None of the are easy to do
anything
> with. Although they are serviceable notebooks are a big PITA to work on
too!
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence
> Sent: Friday, February 22, 2013 2:50 PM
> To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
> Subject: [dba-Tech] Repairing the Surface Pro
> 
> Hi All:
> 
> Here is an interesting article on the difficulties of repairing your
Surface
> Pro. You wouldn't be taking it apart to add new memory, batteries, hard
> drives or even just cleaning out dust from the ventilation ports.
> 
> How bad is it?...It is being compared to the Ultrabook which has been
called
> the most unrepairable piece of equipment on the market.
> 
>
http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/cracking-open/difficult-to-repair-surface-p
>
ro-built-more-like-an-ultrabook-than-a-tablet/938?tag=nl.e101&s_cid=e101&tta
> g=e101
> 
> This article might be well worth saving for those purchasing such a
product.
> 
> Jim
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From john at winhaven.net  Sat Feb 23 23:38:45 2013
From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow)
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2013 23:38:45 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] Repairing the Surface Pro
In-Reply-To: <55A306B8D516410380F60029B945ED35@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <1361408246.792364791@f322.mail.ru><54E3CA089D7141329E8810D69469C939@creativesystemdesigns.com><1361475870.545155468@f45.mail.ru><1361488515.944466947@f271.mail.ru><1E225AE94C9D4DC0B2756E9018AB62E0@creativesystemdesigns.com><008201ce1151$bf5428f0$3dfc7ad0$@winhaven.net><61563A3D32A14E09A42F7B7B2C6EA2C1@creativesystemdesigns.com>	<8E365D6B-7EC8-4CF4-AD97-703B0113FF31@phulse.com>
	<55A306B8D516410380F60029B945ED35@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <002901ce1251$36bcb1f0$a43615d0$@winhaven.net>

I take apart a lot of laptops. Some are much easier than others. But none of
them are the same. Not that I mind a puzzle when I have time but FCOL when
I'm in a hurry I'd like to be able to remove one screw, pop in some RAM and
be done with it. 
Thinkpad: 4 screws, turn over, remove plastic cover (top of palm rest) and
touch pad if one is included, install RAM, have fun getting palm rest and
cover back on, turn over put in 4 screws. 
Dell Vostro: screw, pop cover off, insert RAM, pop cover on insert one
screw.
Toshiba: 2 screws, remove cover do three somersaults, throw salt over left
shoulder...

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 10:55 PM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Repairing the Surface Pro

Hi Hans:

You must have a awfully weird cell phone. ;-) It looks like Apple has
improved since the older models:

http://www.techrepublic.com/photos/cracking-open-the-apple-iphone-5/6385769

My Samsung has a pop-off back and from there everything can be removed right
up to the screen. Mind you if you have broken your screen you can either
heat-gun the screen off or better yet take it to your service depot and let
them do it. ;-)

Obviously you haven't lived until you start pulling apart other laptops
other than Apples...

Jim 

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian
Andersen
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 3:08 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Repairing the Surface Pro

I've never met a cell phone that is serviceable. Never since my first
cellphone in 1996...

40 screws on a laptop? The last laptop I took apart only had 8.

Best regards,
Hans-Christian Andersen


On 23 Feb 2013, at 09:04, "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:

> Hi John:
> 
> PITA, you will have disagreement from me. 
> 
> The last note book I took apart had a good 40 screws and 8 different 
> sizes and that was just to remove the back. I always lay a sheet of 
> graph paper out on the desk and draw and number all the holes given 
> the associated
screw
> codes, making note of the disassembly order as there is no standard 
> and
try
> to remember to pay special attention so as not to lose those little
plastic
> wedges.
> 
> I would like to think that these new tablets should be at least as 
> serviceable as any cell phone.
> 
> Jim
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John 
> Bartow
> Sent: Friday, February 22, 2013 3:10 PM
> To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Repairing the Surface Pro
> 
> For what you get for the price versus a high end Android Tablet or an 
> iPad
I
> think I would still prefer the Surface. None of the are easy to do
anything
> with. Although they are serviceable notebooks are a big PITA to work 
> on
too!
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim 
> Lawrence
> Sent: Friday, February 22, 2013 2:50 PM
> To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
> Subject: [dba-Tech] Repairing the Surface Pro
> 
> Hi All:
> 
> Here is an interesting article on the difficulties of repairing your
Surface
> Pro. You wouldn't be taking it apart to add new memory, batteries, 
> hard drives or even just cleaning out dust from the ventilation ports.
> 
> How bad is it?...It is being compared to the Ultrabook which has been
called
> the most unrepairable piece of equipment on the market.
> 
>
http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/cracking-open/difficult-to-repair-surface-p
>
ro-built-more-like-an-ultrabook-than-a-tablet/938?tag=nl.e101&s_cid=e101&tta
> g=e101
> 
> This article might be well worth saving for those purchasing such a
product.
> 
> Jim
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From hans.andersen at phulse.com  Sun Feb 24 02:45:37 2013
From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen)
Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2013 00:45:37 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Repairing the Surface Pro
In-Reply-To: <55A306B8D516410380F60029B945ED35@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <1361408246.792364791@f322.mail.ru>
	<54E3CA089D7141329E8810D69469C939@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<1361475870.545155468@f45.mail.ru>
	<1361488515.944466947@f271.mail.ru>
	<1E225AE94C9D4DC0B2756E9018AB62E0@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<008201ce1151$bf5428f0$3dfc7ad0$@winhaven.net>
	<61563A3D32A14E09A42F7B7B2C6EA2C1@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<8E365D6B-7EC8-4CF4-AD97-703B0113FF31@phulse.com>
	<55A306B8D516410380F60029B945ED35@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <7B9E7499-8042-4C7A-B7BE-CFA5FC9E6FFF@phulse.com>

By serviceable, are you referring to a hypothetical situation or reality?

How much ability do you have to fix something on your Samsung, should it break? Would you know the first thing on how to fix it or have the necessary tools and ability to replace it? Is it trivial? I strongly doubt it. The most you can possibly do is replace the battery or your SIM card. Well, that's pretty much been the extent of what you can do on cell phones since as far as I'm aware.

Then there is the ability to upgrade. Obviously, it is not possible for any of us to upgrade ram or CPU etc on our phones.

Cell phones just aren't serviceable. Never have been. You are better off just buying a new one. It will probably work out cheaper than any effort you might put in hypothetically.

Or you can buy your phone off a company, which has a great, no-questions-asked policy on product returns that can be taken care of within an hour or 2.

- Hans


On 2013-02-23, at 8:55 PM, "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:

> Hi Hans:
> 
> You must have a awfully weird cell phone. ;-) It looks like Apple has
> improved since the older models:
> 
> http://www.techrepublic.com/photos/cracking-open-the-apple-iphone-5/6385769
> 
> My Samsung has a pop-off back and from there everything can be removed right
> up to the screen. Mind you if you have broken your screen you can either
> heat-gun the screen off or better yet take it to your service depot and let
> them do it. ;-)
> 
> Obviously you haven't lived until you start pulling apart other laptops
> other than Apples...
> 
> Jim 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian
> Andersen
> Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 3:08 PM
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Repairing the Surface Pro
> 
> I've never met a cell phone that is serviceable. Never since my first
> cellphone in 1996...
> 
> 40 screws on a laptop? The last laptop I took apart only had 8.
> 
> Best regards,
> Hans-Christian Andersen
> 
> 
> On 23 Feb 2013, at 09:04, "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:
> 
>> Hi John:
>> 
>> PITA, you will have disagreement from me. 
>> 
>> The last note book I took apart had a good 40 screws and 8 different sizes
>> and that was just to remove the back. I always lay a sheet of graph paper
>> out on the desk and draw and number all the holes given the associated
> screw
>> codes, making note of the disassembly order as there is no standard and
> try
>> to remember to pay special attention so as not to lose those little
> plastic
>> wedges.
>> 
>> I would like to think that these new tablets should be at least as
>> serviceable as any cell phone.
>> 
>> Jim 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow
>> Sent: Friday, February 22, 2013 3:10 PM
>> To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
>> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Repairing the Surface Pro
>> 
>> For what you get for the price versus a high end Android Tablet or an iPad
> I
>> think I would still prefer the Surface. None of the are easy to do
> anything
>> with. Although they are serviceable notebooks are a big PITA to work on
> too!
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence
>> Sent: Friday, February 22, 2013 2:50 PM
>> To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
>> Subject: [dba-Tech] Repairing the Surface Pro
>> 
>> Hi All:
>> 
>> Here is an interesting article on the difficulties of repairing your
> Surface
>> Pro. You wouldn't be taking it apart to add new memory, batteries, hard
>> drives or even just cleaning out dust from the ventilation ports.
>> 
>> How bad is it?...It is being compared to the Ultrabook which has been
> called
>> the most unrepairable piece of equipment on the market.
> http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/cracking-open/difficult-to-repair-surface-p
> ro-built-more-like-an-ultrabook-than-a-tablet/938?tag=nl.e101&s_cid=e101&tta
>> g=e101
>> 
>> This article might be well worth saving for those purchasing such a
> product.
>> 
>> Jim
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> dba-Tech mailing list
>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> dba-Tech mailing list
>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> dba-Tech mailing list
>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From accessd at shaw.ca  Sun Feb 24 09:54:40 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2013 07:54:40 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Repairing the Surface Pro
In-Reply-To: <002901ce1251$36bcb1f0$a43615d0$@winhaven.net>
References: <1361408246.792364791@f322.mail.ru><54E3CA089D7141329E8810D69469C939@creativesystemdesigns.com><1361475870.545155468@f45.mail.ru><1361488515.944466947@f271.mail.ru><1E225AE94C9D4DC0B2756E9018AB62E0@creativesystemdesigns.com><008201ce1151$bf5428f0$3dfc7ad0$@winhaven.net><61563A3D32A14E09A42F7B7B2C6EA2C1@creativesystemdesigns.com>	<8E365D6B-7EC8-4CF4-AD97-703B0113FF31@phulse.com><55A306B8D516410380F60029B945ED35@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<002901ce1251$36bcb1f0$a43615d0$@winhaven.net>
Message-ID: <FC462B8ECDED49F5A7325B20B390372E@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi John:

I am glad to hear things have changed since 2009 when I was doing a lot of
Dells (on a Dell repair contract). One screw and one slide button for the
back off would be excellent...like a power supply.

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 9:39 PM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Repairing the Surface Pro

I take apart a lot of laptops. Some are much easier than others. But none of
them are the same. Not that I mind a puzzle when I have time but FCOL when
I'm in a hurry I'd like to be able to remove one screw, pop in some RAM and
be done with it. 
Thinkpad: 4 screws, turn over, remove plastic cover (top of palm rest) and
touch pad if one is included, install RAM, have fun getting palm rest and
cover back on, turn over put in 4 screws. 
Dell Vostro: screw, pop cover off, insert RAM, pop cover on insert one
screw.
Toshiba: 2 screws, remove cover do three somersaults, throw salt over left
shoulder...

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 10:55 PM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Repairing the Surface Pro

Hi Hans:

You must have a awfully weird cell phone. ;-) It looks like Apple has
improved since the older models:

http://www.techrepublic.com/photos/cracking-open-the-apple-iphone-5/6385769

My Samsung has a pop-off back and from there everything can be removed right
up to the screen. Mind you if you have broken your screen you can either
heat-gun the screen off or better yet take it to your service depot and let
them do it. ;-)

Obviously you haven't lived until you start pulling apart other laptops
other than Apples...

Jim 

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian
Andersen
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 3:08 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Repairing the Surface Pro

I've never met a cell phone that is serviceable. Never since my first
cellphone in 1996...

40 screws on a laptop? The last laptop I took apart only had 8.

Best regards,
Hans-Christian Andersen


On 23 Feb 2013, at 09:04, "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:

> Hi John:
> 
> PITA, you will have disagreement from me. 
> 
> The last note book I took apart had a good 40 screws and 8 different 
> sizes and that was just to remove the back. I always lay a sheet of 
> graph paper out on the desk and draw and number all the holes given 
> the associated
screw
> codes, making note of the disassembly order as there is no standard 
> and
try
> to remember to pay special attention so as not to lose those little
plastic
> wedges.
> 
> I would like to think that these new tablets should be at least as 
> serviceable as any cell phone.
> 
> Jim
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John 
> Bartow
> Sent: Friday, February 22, 2013 3:10 PM
> To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Repairing the Surface Pro
> 
> For what you get for the price versus a high end Android Tablet or an 
> iPad
I
> think I would still prefer the Surface. None of the are easy to do
anything
> with. Although they are serviceable notebooks are a big PITA to work 
> on
too!
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim 
> Lawrence
> Sent: Friday, February 22, 2013 2:50 PM
> To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
> Subject: [dba-Tech] Repairing the Surface Pro
> 
> Hi All:
> 
> Here is an interesting article on the difficulties of repairing your
Surface
> Pro. You wouldn't be taking it apart to add new memory, batteries, 
> hard drives or even just cleaning out dust from the ventilation ports.
> 
> How bad is it?...It is being compared to the Ultrabook which has been
called
> the most unrepairable piece of equipment on the market.
> 
>
http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/cracking-open/difficult-to-repair-surface-p
>
ro-built-more-like-an-ultrabook-than-a-tablet/938?tag=nl.e101&s_cid=e101&tta
> g=e101
> 
> This article might be well worth saving for those purchasing such a
product.
> 
> Jim
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From accessd at shaw.ca  Sun Feb 24 10:47:08 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2013 08:47:08 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Repairing the Surface Pro
In-Reply-To: <7B9E7499-8042-4C7A-B7BE-CFA5FC9E6FFF@phulse.com>
References: <1361408246.792364791@f322.mail.ru><54E3CA089D7141329E8810D69469C939@creativesystemdesigns.com><1361475870.545155468@f45.mail.ru><1361488515.944466947@f271.mail.ru><1E225AE94C9D4DC0B2756E9018AB62E0@creativesystemdesigns.com><008201ce1151$bf5428f0$3dfc7ad0$@winhaven.net><61563A3D32A14E09A42F7B7B2C6EA2C1@creativesystemdesigns.com><8E365D6B-7EC8-4CF4-AD97-703B0113FF31@phulse.com><55A306B8D516410380F60029B945ED35@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<7B9E7499-8042-4C7A-B7BE-CFA5FC9E6FFF@phulse.com>
Message-ID: <554BE5F110CE4DD9BD36E6AF32723048@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Hans:

This is all in theory of course as I have never had to repair a cell phone.
Being that they have always been under contract, the provider owns the phone
until the end of the contract, parts are not easily available to the general
public, there are no moving parts so your phone is unlikely to break and the
only things that can be exchanged (or repaired) are as you say the SIM card
and battery.

Laptops are different though but the bottom end ones are so cheap that the
parts are as expensive as a new unit.

It is that I have a fundamental dislike for just throwing things out that
are still working fine or need simple repairs and are capable of doing just
what you need. 

I am in the process of upgrading an old server (also an old PC), probably in
two to three weeks, that in less than twelve months, will be 15 years old.
Considering that it has basically ran 24x7 for the entire duration, its not
bad (It wasn't even running Linux only an early edition of Win2000 (1998)
first and is now currently running Server2003 enterprise edition). Then
there is a very old PC, running with junk parts from the 90s and can still
run as a server if necessary... Debian Linux I believe. ;-) I have also kept
many client computers running for as long as ten years and then there is the
record, last year, when a client brought in a running Dell (from the time
when they still made real computers), with all the original parts and the
label on the back that read 1990. I have asked the fellow to give the box to
me instead of chucking it out as I would love to try and stuff an
over-clocked server into that box...a friend has access to a two year old
ASUS G74SX laptop mother board with a i7-Intel CPU (6 core), 8GB of RAM...
;-) 

Jim  

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian
Andersen
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2013 12:46 AM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Repairing the Surface Pro

By serviceable, are you referring to a hypothetical situation or reality?

How much ability do you have to fix something on your Samsung, should it
break? Would you know the first thing on how to fix it or have the necessary
tools and ability to replace it? Is it trivial? I strongly doubt it. The
most you can possibly do is replace the battery or your SIM card. Well,
that's pretty much been the extent of what you can do on cell phones since
as far as I'm aware.

Then there is the ability to upgrade. Obviously, it is not possible for any
of us to upgrade ram or CPU etc on our phones.

Cell phones just aren't serviceable. Never have been. You are better off
just buying a new one. It will probably work out cheaper than any effort you
might put in hypothetically.

Or you can buy your phone off a company, which has a great,
no-questions-asked policy on product returns that can be taken care of
within an hour or 2.

- Hans



From hans.andersen at phulse.com  Sun Feb 24 12:31:46 2013
From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen)
Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2013 10:31:46 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Repairing the Surface Pro
In-Reply-To: <554BE5F110CE4DD9BD36E6AF32723048@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <1361408246.792364791@f322.mail.ru>
	<54E3CA089D7141329E8810D69469C939@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<1361475870.545155468@f45.mail.ru>
	<1361488515.944466947@f271.mail.ru>
	<1E225AE94C9D4DC0B2756E9018AB62E0@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<008201ce1151$bf5428f0$3dfc7ad0$@winhaven.net>
	<61563A3D32A14E09A42F7B7B2C6EA2C1@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<8E365D6B-7EC8-4CF4-AD97-703B0113FF31@phulse.com>
	<55A306B8D516410380F60029B945ED35@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<7B9E7499-8042-4C7A-B7BE-CFA5FC9E6FFF@phulse.com>
	<554BE5F110CE4DD9BD36E6AF32723048@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <4557E89A-1DA0-454D-9A0D-25B68B20613B@phulse.com>

Unfortunately, computers are going in the same direction as where cars went. Once upon a time, you could be your own car mechanic, but the components in your car are getting so sophisticated, it is less feasible to do the repairs yourself without going to a qualified (and sometimes specialised) car mechanic.

The same is true for the computing world. We want things that are very light, compact and portable, which basically means glue soldered components and cases that very hard to open. :\ all in the price of progress, I s'pose. Joe Schmoe user doesn't care though.

Best regards,
Hans-Christian Andersen


On 24 Feb 2013, at 08:47, "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca> wrote:

> Hi Hans:
> 
> This is all in theory of course as I have never had to repair a cell phone.
> Being that they have always been under contract, the provider owns the phone
> until the end of the contract, parts are not easily available to the general
> public, there are no moving parts so your phone is unlikely to break and the
> only things that can be exchanged (or repaired) are as you say the SIM card
> and battery.
> 
> Laptops are different though but the bottom end ones are so cheap that the
> parts are as expensive as a new unit.
> 
> It is that I have a fundamental dislike for just throwing things out that
> are still working fine or need simple repairs and are capable of doing just
> what you need. 
> 
> I am in the process of upgrading an old server (also an old PC), probably in
> two to three weeks, that in less than twelve months, will be 15 years old.
> Considering that it has basically ran 24x7 for the entire duration, its not
> bad (It wasn't even running Linux only an early edition of Win2000 (1998)
> first and is now currently running Server2003 enterprise edition). Then
> there is a very old PC, running with junk parts from the 90s and can still
> run as a server if necessary... Debian Linux I believe. ;-) I have also kept
> many client computers running for as long as ten years and then there is the
> record, last year, when a client brought in a running Dell (from the time
> when they still made real computers), with all the original parts and the
> label on the back that read 1990. I have asked the fellow to give the box to
> me instead of chucking it out as I would love to try and stuff an
> over-clocked server into that box...a friend has access to a two year old
> ASUS G74SX laptop mother board with a i7-Intel CPU (6 core), 8GB of RAM...
> ;-) 
> 
> Jim  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian
> Andersen
> Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2013 12:46 AM
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Repairing the Surface Pro
> 
> By serviceable, are you referring to a hypothetical situation or reality?
> 
> How much ability do you have to fix something on your Samsung, should it
> break? Would you know the first thing on how to fix it or have the necessary
> tools and ability to replace it? Is it trivial? I strongly doubt it. The
> most you can possibly do is replace the battery or your SIM card. Well,
> that's pretty much been the extent of what you can do on cell phones since
> as far as I'm aware.
> 
> Then there is the ability to upgrade. Obviously, it is not possible for any
> of us to upgrade ram or CPU etc on our phones.
> 
> Cell phones just aren't serviceable. Never have been. You are better off
> just buying a new one. It will probably work out cheaper than any effort you
> might put in hypothetically.
> 
> Or you can buy your phone off a company, which has a great,
> no-questions-asked policy on product returns that can be taken care of
> within an hour or 2.
> 
> - Hans
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From gustav at cactus.dk  Mon Feb 25 04:44:29 2013
From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2013 11:44:29 +0100
Subject: [dba-Tech] Repairing the Surface Pro
Message-ID: <004e01ce1345$17269a00$4573ce00$@cactus.dk>

Hi Jim

You are just getting old and sentimental.

But I feel exactly the same way. One reason is that in my young days I and
my two partners constructed and produced a lot of audio gear and later
audio-visual control equipment from the ground up, so I have a very good
feeling of "what's inside" electronic items. 
But that was before ICs and surface mounted components on multi-layer PCBs,
at the most we had dual-layered PCBs. ICs arrived and at some stage such
were capable of handling audio at the studio level. This slowly turned you
from an electronic engineer to a "component assembler". I remember the first
hybrid power-amps and one of the main objections: these were not
serviceable; "burnt out" was an unrecoverable state you only could handle by
replacement.

Side note: If you have had any connection to the AV pr multi-media business
of the 80s, you will know what AVL was. We managed to fully automate an
installation of slide and movie projectors controlled by AVL's QD3, Dove,
and Raven units, and we sold a lot of these to the larger corporations.

Today everything is digitized, DSPs are all over - even the power amps may
be running in class D. Nothing to tune in a DAB radio. If it breaks, that's
it. Think about your smartphone as a component. Except for some interface
components and connectors, there is nothing to repair at reasonable efforts.

/gustav

-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Jim Lawrence
Sendt: 24. februar 2013 17:47
Til: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Emne: Re: [dba-Tech] Repairing the Surface Pro

Hi Hans:

This is all in theory of course as I have never had to repair a cell phone.
Being that they have always been under contract, the provider owns the phone
until the end of the contract, parts are not easily available to the general
public, there are no moving parts so your phone is unlikely to break and the
only things that can be exchanged (or repaired) are as you say the SIM card
and battery.

Laptops are different though but the bottom end ones are so cheap that the
parts are as expensive as a new unit.

It is that I have a fundamental dislike for just throwing things out that
are still working fine or need simple repairs and are capable of doing just
what you need. 

I am in the process of upgrading an old server (also an old PC), probably in
two to three weeks, that in less than twelve months, will be 15 years old.
Considering that it has basically ran 24x7 for the entire duration, its not
bad (It wasn't even running Linux only an early edition of Win2000 (1998)
first and is now currently running Server2003 enterprise edition). Then
there is a very old PC, running with junk parts from the 90s and can still
run as a server if necessary... Debian Linux I believe. ;-) I have also kept
many client computers running for as long as ten years and then there is the
record, last year, when a client brought in a running Dell (from the time
when they still made real computers), with all the original parts and the
label on the back that read 1990. I have asked the fellow to give the box to
me instead of chucking it out as I would love to try and stuff an
over-clocked server into that box...a friend has access to a two year old
ASUS G74SX laptop mother board with a i7-Intel CPU (6 core), 8GB of RAM...
;-) 

Jim  



From accessd at shaw.ca  Mon Feb 25 12:44:04 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2013 10:44:04 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Repairing the Surface Pro
In-Reply-To: <004e01ce1345$17269a00$4573ce00$@cactus.dk>
References: <004e01ce1345$17269a00$4573ce00$@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <ADB49870760E42859D4B3DDE1FDFAE14@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Gustav:

" You are just getting old and sentimental. " ...guilty as charged. ;-)

Surface mounted components ended all electronics repair for sure. But
component assembly and software repair is still fun.

Jim 

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2013 2:44 AM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Repairing the Surface Pro

Hi Jim

You are just getting old and sentimental.

But I feel exactly the same way. One reason is that in my young days I and
my two partners constructed and produced a lot of audio gear and later
audio-visual control equipment from the ground up, so I have a very good
feeling of "what's inside" electronic items. 
But that was before ICs and surface mounted components on multi-layer PCBs,
at the most we had dual-layered PCBs. ICs arrived and at some stage such
were capable of handling audio at the studio level. This slowly turned you
from an electronic engineer to a "component assembler". I remember the first
hybrid power-amps and one of the main objections: these were not
serviceable; "burnt out" was an unrecoverable state you only could handle by
replacement.

Side note: If you have had any connection to the AV pr multi-media business
of the 80s, you will know what AVL was. We managed to fully automate an
installation of slide and movie projectors controlled by AVL's QD3, Dove,
and Raven units, and we sold a lot of these to the larger corporations.

Today everything is digitized, DSPs are all over - even the power amps may
be running in class D. Nothing to tune in a DAB radio. If it breaks, that's
it. Think about your smartphone as a component. Except for some interface
components and connectors, there is nothing to repair at reasonable efforts.

/gustav

-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Jim Lawrence
Sendt: 24. februar 2013 17:47
Til: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Emne: Re: [dba-Tech] Repairing the Surface Pro

Hi Hans:

This is all in theory of course as I have never had to repair a cell phone.
Being that they have always been under contract, the provider owns the phone
until the end of the contract, parts are not easily available to the general
public, there are no moving parts so your phone is unlikely to break and the
only things that can be exchanged (or repaired) are as you say the SIM card
and battery.

Laptops are different though but the bottom end ones are so cheap that the
parts are as expensive as a new unit.

It is that I have a fundamental dislike for just throwing things out that
are still working fine or need simple repairs and are capable of doing just
what you need. 

I am in the process of upgrading an old server (also an old PC), probably in
two to three weeks, that in less than twelve months, will be 15 years old.
Considering that it has basically ran 24x7 for the entire duration, its not
bad (It wasn't even running Linux only an early edition of Win2000 (1998)
first and is now currently running Server2003 enterprise edition). Then
there is a very old PC, running with junk parts from the 90s and can still
run as a server if necessary... Debian Linux I believe. ;-) I have also kept
many client computers running for as long as ten years and then there is the
record, last year, when a client brought in a running Dell (from the time
when they still made real computers), with all the original parts and the
label on the back that read 1990. I have asked the fellow to give the box to
me instead of chucking it out as I would love to try and stuff an
over-clocked server into that box...a friend has access to a two year old
ASUS G74SX laptop mother board with a i7-Intel CPU (6 core), 8GB of RAM...
;-) 

Jim  


_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Mon Feb 25 17:20:51 2013
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 09:20:51 +1000
Subject: [dba-Tech] NOSQL goes SQL?
In-Reply-To: <ADB49870760E42859D4B3DDE1FDFAE14@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <004e01ce1345$17269a00$4573ce00$@cactus.dk>,
	<ADB49870760E42859D4B3DDE1FDFAE14@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <512BF1D3.14786.5C581874@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

So much for NOSQL being the answer to life, the universe and everything.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/02/25/hortonworks_stinger/

Hortonworks has unveiled the Stinger Initiative, a project to make Hadoop?s Hive data 
warehouse friendlier with SQL and faster.
...
 Hadoop is a open-source implementation of Google?s MapReduce and a NoSQL system.

However, the NoSQL crowds realised they need to make their architectures work better with 
SQL-like tools used by businesses in the real world.
...
According to Hortonworks, Stinger will make Hive "a more suitable tool for the decision 
support queries people want to perform on Hadoop".

-- 
Stuart

From accessd at shaw.ca  Mon Feb 25 22:22:24 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2013 20:22:24 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] NOSQL goes SQL?
In-Reply-To: <512BF1D3.14786.5C581874@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
References: <004e01ce1345$17269a00$4573ce00$@cactus.dk>,
	<ADB49870760E42859D4B3DDE1FDFAE14@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<512BF1D3.14786.5C581874@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
Message-ID: <60563B0335494F17B7E763729DB51DBF@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Stuart:

At the risk of being repetitious, NoSQL is not trying to replace SQL. The
only reason similar products Map Reduce are around because SQL can not do
the job of managing huge data. 

SQL databases handles up to a million pieces of data while NoSQL databases
handle billions of pieces of data.  

http://gigaom.com/2013/02/21/sql-is-whats-next-for-hadoop-heres-whos-doing-i
t

Just think if the UI to NoSQL databases was really easy there goes those big
bucks for the techs that manage these ugly monstrosities now get. ;-)

Jim  

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2013 3:21 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: [dba-Tech] NOSQL goes SQL?

So much for NOSQL being the answer to life, the universe and everything.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/02/25/hortonworks_stinger/

Hortonworks has unveiled the Stinger Initiative, a project to make Hadoop?s
Hive data 
warehouse friendlier with SQL and faster.
...
 Hadoop is a open-source implementation of Google?s MapReduce and a NoSQL
system.

However, the NoSQL crowds realised they need to make their architectures
work better with 
SQL-like tools used by businesses in the real world.
...
According to Hortonworks, Stinger will make Hive "a more suitable tool for
the decision 
support queries people want to perform on Hadoop".

-- 
Stuart
_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From peter.brawley at earthlink.net  Tue Feb 26 00:56:19 2013
From: peter.brawley at earthlink.net (Peter Brawley)
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 00:56:19 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] NOSQL goes SQL?
In-Reply-To: <60563B0335494F17B7E763729DB51DBF@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <004e01ce1345$17269a00$4573ce00$@cactus.dk>,
	<ADB49870760E42859D4B3DDE1FDFAE14@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<512BF1D3.14786.5C581874@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
	<60563B0335494F17B7E763729DB51DBF@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <512C5C93.5030005@earthlink.net>


On 2013-02-25 10:22 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote:
> Hi Stuart:
>
> At the risk of being repetitious, NoSQL is not trying to replace SQL. The
> only reason similar products Map Reduce are around because SQL can not do
> the job of managing huge data.
>
> SQL databases handles up to a million pieces of data while NoSQL databases
> handle billions of pieces of data.

MySQL handles loads like that. The DB needs to be structured correctly 
according to whether it's mainly OLTP or OLAP, of course, or split into 
OLTP and OLAP instances. It might also benefit from partitioning, or 
from deployment of a MySQL Cluster.

PB

-----

>
> http://gigaom.com/2013/02/21/sql-is-whats-next-for-hadoop-heres-whos-doing-i
> t
>
> Just think if the UI to NoSQL databases was really easy there goes those big
> bucks for the techs that manage these ugly monstrosities now get. ;-)
>
> Jim
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan
> Sent: Monday, February 25, 2013 3:21 PM
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Subject: [dba-Tech] NOSQL goes SQL?
>
> So much for NOSQL being the answer to life, the universe and everything.
>
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/02/25/hortonworks_stinger/
>
> Hortonworks has unveiled the Stinger Initiative, a project to make Hadoop?s
> Hive data
> warehouse friendlier with SQL and faster.
> ...
>   Hadoop is a open-source implementation of Google?s MapReduce and a NoSQL
> system.
>
> However, the NoSQL crowds realised they need to make their architectures
> work better with
> SQL-like tools used by businesses in the real world.
> ...
> According to Hortonworks, Stinger will make Hive "a more suitable tool for
> the decision
> support queries people want to perform on Hadoop".
>


From john at winhaven.net  Tue Feb 26 13:19:03 2013
From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow)
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 13:19:03 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] GPT
Message-ID: <00ba01ce1456$23816a70$6a843f50$@winhaven.net>

Can Windows 7 read GPT protected partitions?

 

I have a Seagate NAS 110 device that has quit working (4th one now).

 

I connect the HD to my external drive unit and it shows a bunch of GPT
protected partitions. I'd like to copy the data from these partitions to my
hard drive.

 

 



From garykjos at gmail.com  Tue Feb 26 13:56:14 2013
From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos)
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 13:56:14 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] GPT
In-Reply-To: <00ba01ce1456$23816a70$6a843f50$@winhaven.net>
References: <00ba01ce1456$23816a70$6a843f50$@winhaven.net>
Message-ID: <CAJ2R_pL7JkyMnJ0i9d3h46aLryNJ56usHwNpeir=GqJKowMcBw@mail.gmail.com>

It would seem to.


http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/hardware/gg463525.aspx

GK

On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 1:19 PM, John Bartow <john at winhaven.net> wrote:
> Can Windows 7 read GPT protected partitions?
>
>
>
> I have a Seagate NAS 110 device that has quit working (4th one now).
>
>
>
> I connect the HD to my external drive unit and it shows a bunch of GPT
> protected partitions. I'd like to copy the data from these partitions to my
> hard drive.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



-- 
Gary Kjos
garykjos at gmail.com

From garykjos at gmail.com  Tue Feb 26 13:58:05 2013
From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos)
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 13:58:05 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] GPT
In-Reply-To: <CAJ2R_pL7JkyMnJ0i9d3h46aLryNJ56usHwNpeir=GqJKowMcBw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <00ba01ce1456$23816a70$6a843f50$@winhaven.net>
	<CAJ2R_pL7JkyMnJ0i9d3h46aLryNJ56usHwNpeir=GqJKowMcBw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ2R_pJSQy+SAcYY7+a8LSX2+ebTriF=oVmL7eorJ=LRXY5k3w@mail.gmail.com>

This also seems to provide some info.

http://knowledge.seagate.com/articles/en_US/FAQ/207837en

GK

On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 1:56 PM, Gary Kjos <garykjos at gmail.com> wrote:
> It would seem to.
>
>
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/hardware/gg463525.aspx
>
> GK
>
> On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 1:19 PM, John Bartow <john at winhaven.net> wrote:
>> Can Windows 7 read GPT protected partitions?
>>
>>
>>
>> I have a Seagate NAS 110 device that has quit working (4th one now).
>>
>>
>>
>> I connect the HD to my external drive unit and it shows a bunch of GPT
>> protected partitions. I'd like to copy the data from these partitions to my
>> hard drive.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> dba-Tech mailing list
>> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>
>
> --
> Gary Kjos
> garykjos at gmail.com



-- 
Gary Kjos
garykjos at gmail.com

From john at winhaven.net  Tue Feb 26 15:15:31 2013
From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow)
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 15:15:31 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] GPT
In-Reply-To: <CAJ2R_pL7JkyMnJ0i9d3h46aLryNJ56usHwNpeir=GqJKowMcBw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <00ba01ce1456$23816a70$6a843f50$@winhaven.net>
	<CAJ2R_pL7JkyMnJ0i9d3h46aLryNJ56usHwNpeir=GqJKowMcBw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00ea01ce1466$690a8580$3b1f9080$@winhaven.net>

Thanks Gary!
After reading through this it would seem that my problem is that I'm using a
USB device so it most likely appears as a removable drive to Windows. I'll
mount it directly and see what happens.
John B

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 1:56 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] GPT

It would seem to.


http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/hardware/gg463525.aspx

GK

On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 1:19 PM, John Bartow <john at winhaven.net> wrote:
> Can Windows 7 read GPT protected partitions?
>
>
>
> I have a Seagate NAS 110 device that has quit working (4th one now).
>
>
>
> I connect the HD to my external drive unit and it shows a bunch of GPT 
> protected partitions. I'd like to copy the data from these partitions 
> to my hard drive.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



--
Gary Kjos
garykjos at gmail.com
_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From john at winhaven.net  Tue Feb 26 18:28:53 2013
From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow)
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 18:28:53 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] GPT
In-Reply-To: <00ea01ce1466$690a8580$3b1f9080$@winhaven.net>
References: <00ba01ce1456$23816a70$6a843f50$@winhaven.net>	<CAJ2R_pL7JkyMnJ0i9d3h46aLryNJ56usHwNpeir=GqJKowMcBw@mail.gmail.com>
	<00ea01ce1466$690a8580$3b1f9080$@winhaven.net>
Message-ID: <002501ce1481$6beacdd0$43c06970$@winhaven.net>

Well that lets me see the partitions but not the data. I'm guessing it's a
Linux format or something...

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 3:16 PM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] GPT

Thanks Gary!
After reading through this it would seem that my problem is that I'm using a
USB device so it most likely appears as a removable drive to Windows. I'll
mount it directly and see what happens.
John B

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 1:56 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] GPT

It would seem to.


http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/hardware/gg463525.aspx

GK

On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 1:19 PM, John Bartow <john at winhaven.net> wrote:
> Can Windows 7 read GPT protected partitions?
>
>
>
> I have a Seagate NAS 110 device that has quit working (4th one now).
>
>
>
> I connect the HD to my external drive unit and it shows a bunch of GPT 
> protected partitions. I'd like to copy the data from these partitions 
> to my hard drive.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



--
Gary Kjos
garykjos at gmail.com
_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From accessd at shaw.ca  Tue Feb 26 22:49:15 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 20:49:15 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] NOSQL goes SQL?
In-Reply-To: <512C5C93.5030005@earthlink.net>
References: <004e01ce1345$17269a00$4573ce00$@cactus.dk>,
	<ADB49870760E42859D4B3DDE1FDFAE14@creativesystemdesigns.com><512BF1D3.14786.5C581874@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><60563B0335494F17B7E763729DB51DBF@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<512C5C93.5030005@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <FEA6999E9CD44A46803D7639AF169D2D@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Peter:

I find database deployment always a very interesting subject. Do you find
clustered MySQL databases perform data manipulation at a reasonable speed
even retrievals from your data warehouse?

Facebook for a long time has been depended on a distributive system like you
are describing. Thousands MySQL DBs clusters hold all the data but inorder
to make all the data available in real-time it requires a NoSQL HBase which
monitors and is the controller that managed all the data retrieval and
deposits. Since then, because of performance requirements, more and more
data is being moved into the Cassandra database.

I can not say more I am not an expert in MySQL but I believe Hans is and he
can give some additional insights. I believe one of the large sites that he
manages uses a combination of MySQL and Cassandra.

Jim    

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Peter Brawley
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2013 10:56 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] NOSQL goes SQL?


On 2013-02-25 10:22 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote:
> Hi Stuart:
>
> At the risk of being repetitious, NoSQL is not trying to replace SQL. The
> only reason similar products Map Reduce are around because SQL can not do
> the job of managing huge data.
>
> SQL databases handles up to a million pieces of data while NoSQL databases
> handle billions of pieces of data.

MySQL handles loads like that. The DB needs to be structured correctly 
according to whether it's mainly OLTP or OLAP, of course, or split into 
OLTP and OLAP instances. It might also benefit from partitioning, or 
from deployment of a MySQL Cluster.

PB

-----

>
>
http://gigaom.com/2013/02/21/sql-is-whats-next-for-hadoop-heres-whos-doing-i
> t
>
> Just think if the UI to NoSQL databases was really easy there goes those
big
> bucks for the techs that manage these ugly monstrosities now get. ;-)
>
> Jim
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart
McLachlan
> Sent: Monday, February 25, 2013 3:21 PM
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Subject: [dba-Tech] NOSQL goes SQL?
>
> So much for NOSQL being the answer to life, the universe and everything.
>
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/02/25/hortonworks_stinger/
>
> Hortonworks has unveiled the Stinger Initiative, a project to make
Hadoop?s
> Hive data
> warehouse friendlier with SQL and faster.
> ...
>   Hadoop is a open-source implementation of Google?s MapReduce and a NoSQL
> system.
>
> However, the NoSQL crowds realised they need to make their architectures
> work better with
> SQL-like tools used by businesses in the real world.
> ...
> According to Hortonworks, Stinger will make Hive "a more suitable tool for
> the decision
> support queries people want to perform on Hadoop".
>

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From accessd at shaw.ca  Tue Feb 26 23:26:49 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 21:26:49 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] GPT
In-Reply-To: <002501ce1481$6beacdd0$43c06970$@winhaven.net>
References: <00ba01ce1456$23816a70$6a843f50$@winhaven.net>	<CAJ2R_pL7JkyMnJ0i9d3h46aLryNJ56usHwNpeir=GqJKowMcBw@mail.gmail.com><00ea01ce1466$690a8580$3b1f9080$@winhaven.net>
	<002501ce1481$6beacdd0$43c06970$@winhaven.net>
Message-ID: <CDFF6BB36B22485185F1280379A2EC7D@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi John:

Assuming that the partition in question is Linux, I believe you can boot up
the computer in question via a Ubuntu DVD or USB drive. (Ubuntu reads all
windows and Linux drive formats)

http://www.ubuntu.com/download/help/try-ubuntu-before-you-install

Also, if the computer has a web server, uses PHP, it most likely has a
version of PHPAdmin which is excellent for managing MySQL DBs. If you can
view the drive information you should be able to find the phpadmin.html and
run it via the current web browser. That web browser will be Firefox if you
are viewing using an Ubuntu boot device.

I understand that there is a way to set up a Samba client of your windows
station which will allow you to access your Linux shares but have never
installed it in this configuration before.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tw0r4ZXAcM4

There also a few software packages that will let you view and even manage a
Linux partition from a windows partition. The better packages, that will
allow the running of Linux applications and allow data manipulation do cost
some money. (I have not looked at the genre of software for years so can not
remember the names...but Google is your friend.)

If all else fails there is a disk that either comes with a new drive or can
be downloaded from Seagate that will let you view your NAS backup drives.

I hope this helps and does not confuse as most of this is off the top... ;-)

Jim

PS Seagate NAS drives are Linux...I have a couple that I manage for clients.
Note: they have a pretty good security system that is not easily hacked. Can
we assume the client knows the passwords? The Seagate's also come out of the
box with a default password... Google?

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 4:29 PM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] GPT

Well that lets me see the partitions but not the data. I'm guessing it's a
Linux format or something...

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 3:16 PM
To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] GPT

Thanks Gary!
After reading through this it would seem that my problem is that I'm using a
USB device so it most likely appears as a removable drive to Windows. I'll
mount it directly and see what happens.
John B

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 1:56 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] GPT

It would seem to.


http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/hardware/gg463525.aspx

GK

On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 1:19 PM, John Bartow <john at winhaven.net> wrote:
> Can Windows 7 read GPT protected partitions?
>
>
>
> I have a Seagate NAS 110 device that has quit working (4th one now).
>
>
>
> I connect the HD to my external drive unit and it shows a bunch of GPT 
> protected partitions. I'd like to copy the data from these partitions 
> to my hard drive.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



--
Gary Kjos
garykjos at gmail.com
_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Wed Feb 27 04:03:28 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2013 14:03:28 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech] =?utf-8?q?Provision_a_New_Linux_Dev_Environment_in_Not?=
 =?utf-8?q?hing_Flat_with_Puppet?=
Message-ID: <1361959408.922673997@f231.mail.ru>

 Hi All --

I have just accidentally got at and read at the following articles:

Provision a New Linux Dev Environment in Nothing Flat with Puppet
http://www.linux.com/news/software/applications/694157-setup-your-dev-environment-in-nothing-flat-with-puppet
How to Jumpstart Linux Development with Puppet and Vagrant, Part Two
http://www.linux.com/learn/tutorials/696255-jumpstart-your-linux-development-environment-with-puppet-and-vagrant
and I wonder: "Provided I have an Oracle VM Virtual Box installed would that be be just a matter of compiling(collecting) a set of Vagrant and Puppet settings files to get (a set of) VM(s) image(s) downloaded, setup and made running together with their web servers, and even getting that VM(s) web server(s)' apps files synchronized with my development PC/VM, with all the changes I'd be making on that dev PC/VM web site project (instantly) replicated on a VM web server?"

FYI: I have just glanced at Puppet declarations and they seems to be rather easy to author - so I'm getting really curious.

Thank you.

-- Shamil






From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Wed Feb 27 04:05:35 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2013 14:05:35 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech] =?utf-8?q?IE10_for_Windows_7_Globally_Available_for_Co?=
 =?utf-8?q?nsumers_and_Businesses?=
Message-ID: <1361959535.34249754@f376.mail.ru>

 Hi All --

You have probably heard that news already: " IE10 for Windows 7 Globally Available for Consumers and Businesses":

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2013/02/26/ie10-for-windows-7-globally-available-for-consumers-and-businesses.aspx

Thank you.

-- Shamil
?

From hans.andersen at phulse.com  Wed Feb 27 04:10:05 2013
From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2013 02:10:05 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Provision a New Linux Dev Environment in Nothing
	Flat with Puppet
In-Reply-To: <1361959408.922673997@f231.mail.ru>
References: <1361959408.922673997@f231.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <D21C1B67-CE75-4103-84C2-1C335B84CFA4@phulse.com>

I highly recommend Puppet. For me, it's a server admins dream.

- Hans


On 2013-02-27, at 2:03 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil <mcp2004 at mail.ru> wrote:

> Hi All --
> 
> I have just accidentally got at and read at the following articles:
> 
> Provision a New Linux Dev Environment in Nothing Flat with Puppet
> http://www.linux.com/news/software/applications/694157-setup-your-dev-environment-in-nothing-flat-with-puppet
> How to Jumpstart Linux Development with Puppet and Vagrant, Part Two
> http://www.linux.com/learn/tutorials/696255-jumpstart-your-linux-development-environment-with-puppet-and-vagrant
> and I wonder: "Provided I have an Oracle VM Virtual Box installed would that be be just a matter of compiling(collecting) a set of Vagrant and Puppet settings files to get (a set of) VM(s) image(s) downloaded, setup and made running together with their web servers, and even getting that VM(s) web server(s)' apps files synchronized with my development PC/VM, with all the changes I'd be making on that dev PC/VM web site project (instantly) replicated on a VM web server?"
> 
> FYI: I have just glanced at Puppet declarations and they seems to be rather easy to author - so I'm getting really curious.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> -- Shamil
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From jon.tydda at lonza.com  Wed Feb 27 05:54:10 2013
From: jon.tydda at lonza.com (Tydda Jon - Lonza Slough)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2013 12:54:10 +0100
Subject: [dba-Tech] IE10 for Windows 7 Globally Available for Consumers
 and Businesses
In-Reply-To: <1361959535.34249754@f376.mail.ru>
References: <1361959535.34249754@f376.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <A750CC0AAE63CB489C58478FF67DE6321F1EE3E815@chvex03.lonzagroup.net>

Thanks Shamil, been waiting for that for ages! :-)


Jon

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil
Sent: 27 February 2013 10:06
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: [dba-Tech] IE10 for Windows 7 Globally Available for Consumers and Businesses

 Hi All --

You have probably heard that news already: " IE10 for Windows 7 Globally Available for Consumers and Businesses":

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2013/02/26/ie10-for-windows-7-globally-available-for-consumers-and-businesses.aspx

Thank you.

-- Shamil

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

This communication and its attachments, if any, may contain confidential and privileged information the use of which by other persons or entities than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you receive this transmission in error, please contact the sender immediately and delete the material from your system.


From gustav at cactus.dk  Wed Feb 27 05:58:31 2013
From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2013 12:58:31 +0100
Subject: [dba-Tech] IE10 for Windows 7 Globally Available for Consumers
	and Businesses
Message-ID: <001301ce14e1$c3134460$4939cd20$@cactus.dk>

Hi Shamil

Wow! IE10 is fast. 
Here is the HTML5 Minesweeper benchmark:

  http://ie.microsoft.com/testdrive/Performance/Minesweeper/Default.html

and my results in seconds for setting Huge:

  IE9:
    IE10: 12.6 
    Checker: 75.8(!)
    Island: 18.7

  IE10:
    IE10: 1.0
    Checker: 4.0
    Island: 3.9

This explains why my old Lenovo running Win8 with IE10 ran pretty much the same when browsing as my new ThinkStation with Win7 and IE9.

So, if you are a system admin who wishes to gain cheap user credits, update IE9 to IE10 at the soonest.

/gustav


-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Salakhetdinov Shamil
Sendt: 27. februar 2013 11:06
Til: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Emne: [dba-Tech] IE10 for Windows 7 Globally Available for Consumers and Businesses

 Hi All --

You have probably heard that news already: " IE10 for Windows 7 Globally Available for Consumers and Businesses":

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2013/02/26/ie10-for-windows-7-globally-available-for-consumers-and-businesses.aspx

Thank you.

-- Shamil 



From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Wed Feb 27 07:47:03 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2013 17:47:03 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech]
 =?utf-8?q?IE10_for_Windows_7_Globally_Available_for_Co?=
 =?utf-8?q?nsumers_and_Businesses?=
In-Reply-To: <001301ce14e1$c3134460$4939cd20$@cactus.dk>
References: <001301ce14e1$c3134460$4939cd20$@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <1361972823.363991980@f203.mail.ru>

 Hi Gustav --

Yes, IE10 is as speedy here on ASUS N76Vz and Win8 but when IE10 is about to display test results I'm getting "Internet Explorer has stopped working" dialog. That wasn't expected here I must admit. I have checked the same IE10 version with the same latest update with the same Minesweeper tests - they are working well on Win8 VM. The issue with IE 10 failing should be somehow related to add-ons I have installed with it, nothing special, and I have switched them off already and restarted IE10 - the same issue persists: Am I unlucky today or "Windows and IE will never change?"

Thank you.

-- Shamil

?????, 27 ??????? 2013, 12:58 +01:00 ?? "Gustav Brock" <gustav at cactus.dk>:
>Hi Shamil
>
>Wow! IE10 is fast. 
>Here is the HTML5 Minesweeper benchmark:
>
>?? http://ie.microsoft.com/testdrive/Performance/Minesweeper/Default.html
>
>and my results in seconds for setting Huge:
>
>??IE9:
>????IE10: 12.6 
>????Checker: 75.8(!)
>????Island: 18.7
>
>??IE10:
>????IE10: 1.0
>????Checker: 4.0
>????Island: 3.9
>
>This explains why my old Lenovo running Win8 with IE10 ran pretty much the same when browsing as my new ThinkStation with Win7 and IE9.
>
>So, if you are a system admin who wishes to gain cheap user credits, update IE9 to IE10 at the soonest.
>
>/gustav
>
>
>-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
>Fra:  dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Salakhetdinov Shamil
>Sendt: 27. februar 2013 11:06
>Til: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>Emne: [dba-Tech] IE10 for Windows 7 Globally Available for Consumers and Businesses
>
>?Hi All --
>
>You have probably heard that news already: " IE10 for Windows 7 Globally Available for Consumers and Businesses":
>
>http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2013/02/26/ie10-for-windows-7-globally-available-for-consumers-and-businesses.aspx
>
>Thank you.
>
>-- Shamil 
>
>


From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Wed Feb 27 07:51:02 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2013 17:51:02 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech]
 =?utf-8?q?IE10_for_Windows_7_Globally_Available_for_Co?=
 =?utf-8?q?nsumers_and_Businesses?=
In-Reply-To: <A750CC0AAE63CB489C58478FF67DE6321F1EE3E815@chvex03.lonzagroup.net>
References: <1361959535.34249754@f376.mail.ru>
	<A750CC0AAE63CB489C58478FF67DE6321F1EE3E815@chvex03.lonzagroup.net>
Message-ID: <1361973062.325047699@f203.mail.ru>

 Don't mention it, Jon,

But maybe first test IE10 "in all modes" or wait for its SP1 (:)) - have a look through my reply to Gustav: I have got some issues when running IE10 own tests under Win8.

-- Shamil


?????, 27 ??????? 2013, 12:54 +01:00 ?? Tydda Jon - Lonza Slough <jon.tydda at lonza.com>:
>Thanks Shamil, been waiting for that for ages! :-)
>
>
>Jon
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From:  dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil
>Sent: 27 February 2013 10:06
>To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>Subject: [dba-Tech] IE10 for Windows 7 Globally Available for Consumers and Businesses
>
>?Hi All --
>
>You have probably heard that news already: " IE10 for Windows 7 Globally Available for Consumers and Businesses":
>
>http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2013/02/26/ie10-for-windows-7-globally-available-for-consumers-and-businesses.aspx
>
>Thank you.
>
>-- Shamil
>

From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Wed Feb 27 07:52:52 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2013 17:52:52 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech]
 =?utf-8?q?Provision_a_New_Linux_Dev_Environment_in_Not?=
 =?utf-8?q?hing_Flat_with_Puppet?=
In-Reply-To: <D21C1B67-CE75-4103-84C2-1C335B84CFA4@phulse.com>
References: <1361959408.922673997@f231.mail.ru>
	<D21C1B67-CE75-4103-84C2-1C335B84CFA4@phulse.com>
Message-ID: <1361973172.279024779@f203.mail.ru>

 Thank you, Hans,

I will definitely try to learn more on Puppet features - AFAIS it can be used to administer both Linux and MS Windows systems...

-- Shamil


?????, 27 ??????? 2013, 2:10 -08:00 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen <hans.andersen at phulse.com>:
>I highly recommend Puppet. For me, it's a server admins dream.
>
>- Hans
>
>
>On 2013-02-27, at 2:03 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil < mcp2004 at mail.ru > wrote:
>
>> Hi All --
>> 
>> I have just accidentally got at and read at the following articles:
>> 
>> Provision a New Linux Dev Environment in Nothing Flat with Puppet
>>  http://www.linux.com/news/software/applications/694157-setup-your-dev-environment-in-nothing-flat-with-puppet
>> How to Jumpstart Linux Development with Puppet and Vagrant, Part Two
>>  http://www.linux.com/learn/tutorials/696255-jumpstart-your-linux-development-environment-with-puppet-and-vagrant
>> and I wonder: "Provided I have an Oracle VM Virtual Box installed would that be be just a matter of compiling(collecting) a set of Vagrant and Puppet settings files to get (a set of) VM(s) image(s) downloaded, setup and made running together with their web servers, and even getting that VM(s) web server(s)' apps files synchronized with my development PC/VM, with all the changes I'd be making on that dev PC/VM web site project (instantly) replicated on a VM web server?"
>> 
>> FYI: I have just glanced at Puppet declarations and they seems to be rather easy to author - so I'm getting really curious.
>> 
>> Thank you.
>> 
>> -- Shamil
>>?

From gustav at cactus.dk  Wed Feb 27 09:19:35 2013
From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2013 16:19:35 +0100
Subject: [dba-Tech] IE10 for Windows 7 Globally Available for Consumers
	and Businesses
Message-ID: <007101ce14fd$d9f470c0$8ddd5240$@cactus.dk>

Hi Shamil

Here it complained about a Bing bar that wasn't compatible. I could click to disable it, and that was it.
Since then zero issues.

/gustav

-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Salakhetdinov Shamil
Sendt: 27. februar 2013 14:47
Til: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Emne: Re: [dba-Tech] IE10 for Windows 7 Globally Available for Consumers and Businesses

 Hi Gustav --

Yes, IE10 is as speedy here on ASUS N76Vz and Win8 but when IE10 is about to display test results I'm getting "Internet Explorer has stopped working" dialog. That wasn't expected here I must admit. I have checked the same IE10 version with the same latest update with the same Minesweeper tests - they are working well on Win8 VM. The issue with IE 10 failing should be somehow related to add-ons I have installed with it, nothing special, and I have switched them off already and restarted IE10 - the same issue persists: Am I unlucky today or "Windows and IE will never change?"

Thank you.

-- Shamil

?????, 27 ??????? 2013, 12:58 +01:00 ?? "Gustav Brock" <gustav at cactus.dk>:
>Hi Shamil
>
>Wow! IE10 is fast. 
>Here is the HTML5 Minesweeper benchmark:
>
>   http://ie.microsoft.com/testdrive/Performance/Minesweeper/Default.html
>
>and my results in seconds for setting Huge:
>
>  IE9:
>    IE10: 12.6 
>    Checker: 75.8(!)
>    Island: 18.7
>
>  IE10:
>    IE10: 1.0
>    Checker: 4.0
>    Island: 3.9
>
>This explains why my old Lenovo running Win8 with IE10 ran pretty much the same when browsing as my new ThinkStation with Win7 and IE9.
>
>So, if you are a system admin who wishes to gain cheap user credits, update IE9 to IE10 at the soonest.
>
>/gustav
>
>
>-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
>Fra:  dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Salakhetdinov Shamil
>Sendt: 27. februar 2013 11:06
>Til: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>Emne: [dba-Tech] IE10 for Windows 7 Globally Available for Consumers and Businesses
>
> Hi All --
>
>You have probably heard that news already: " IE10 for Windows 7 Globally Available for Consumers and Businesses":
>
>http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2013/02/26/ie10-for-windows-7-globally-available-for-consumers-and-businesses.aspx
>
>Thank you.
>
>-- Shamil  




From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Wed Feb 27 09:44:30 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2013 19:44:30 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech]
 =?utf-8?q?IE10_for_Windows_7_Globally_Available_for_Co?=
 =?utf-8?q?nsumers_and_Businesses?=
In-Reply-To: <007101ce14fd$d9f470c0$8ddd5240$@cactus.dk>
References: <007101ce14fd$d9f470c0$8ddd5240$@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <1361979870.506206196@f180.mail.ru>

 Hi Gustav --

I have for IE10:
Manage Add-ons -> "Toolbars and Extensions":
Microsoft Corp:
- Lync Browser Helper,
- Microsoft Web Test Recorder 10.0 Helper,
- Office Document Cache Handler,
- Microsoft SkyDrive Pro Browser Helper,
- Lync Click to Call
Oracle America Inc.
- Java(tm) Plug-In SSV Helper,
- Java(tm) Plug-In 2 SSV Helper
Not Available
- Send to OneNote
- OneNote Linked Notes

--

All add-ins are disabled - still the issue persist. I will try to remove all the add-ins now and to see if it will help.

-- Shamil?

?????, 27 ??????? 2013, 16:19 +01:00 ?? "Gustav Brock" <gustav at cactus.dk>:
>Hi Shamil
>
>Here it complained about a Bing bar that wasn't compatible. I could click to disable it, and that was it.
>Since then zero issues.
>
>/gustav
>
>-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
>Fra:  dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Salakhetdinov Shamil
>Sendt: 27. februar 2013 14:47
>Til: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>Emne: Re: [dba-Tech] IE10 for Windows 7 Globally Available for Consumers and Businesses
>
>?Hi Gustav --
>
>Yes, IE10 is as speedy here on ASUS N76Vz and Win8 but when IE10 is about to display test results I'm getting "Internet Explorer has stopped working" dialog. That wasn't expected here I must admit. I have checked the same IE10 version with the same latest update with the same Minesweeper tests - they are working well on Win8 VM. The issue with IE 10 failing should be somehow related to add-ons I have installed with it, nothing special, and I have switched them off already and restarted IE10 - the same issue persists: Am I unlucky today or "Windows and IE will never change?"
>
>Thank you.
>
>-- Shamil
>

From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Wed Feb 27 10:39:33 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2013 20:39:33 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech]
 =?utf-8?q?IE10_for_Windows_7_Globally_Available_for_Co?=
 =?utf-8?q?nsumers_and_Businesses?=
In-Reply-To: <1361979870.506206196@f180.mail.ru>
References: <007101ce14fd$d9f470c0$8ddd5240$@cactus.dk>
	<1361979870.506206196@f180.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <1361983173.175197175@f387.i.mail.ru>

 Actually AFAIS there are quite some more IE10 add-ins installed, which all have "Run without permission" mode. I have disabled all of them (I do not see an option of their removal) - still the issue with IE10 and its Minesweeper test persist here on my Win8 system - when IE10 is about to show its test performance results it instead shows a dialog :

+++
Internet Explorer has stopped working.
A problem caused the program to stop working correctly.
Windows will close the program and notify you if a solution is available.

---

and then when switching into debug mode:

+++?
Unhandled exception at 0x7710BDA1 in iexplore.exe: 0xC0000005: Access violation executing location 0x00000000. ---

Just for comparison: Chrome 24 runs several times slower but it doesn't fail at the end of the test.

---

-- Shamil


?????, 27 ??????? 2013, 19:44 +04:00 ?? Salakhetdinov Shamil <mcp2004 at mail.ru>:
>Hi Gustav --
>
>I have for IE10:
>Manage Add-ons -> "Toolbars and Extensions":
>Microsoft Corp:
>- Lync Browser Helper,
>- Microsoft Web Test Recorder 10.0 Helper,
>- Office Document Cache Handler,
>- Microsoft SkyDrive Pro Browser Helper,
>- Lync Click to Call
>Oracle America Inc.
>- Java(tm) Plug-In SSV Helper,
>- Java(tm) Plug-In 2 SSV Helper
>Not Available
>- Send to OneNote
>- OneNote Linked Notes
>
>--
>
>All add-ins are disabled - still the issue persist. I will try to remove all the add-ins now and to see if it will help.
>
>-- Shamil?
>
>?????, 27 ??????? 2013, 16:19 +01:00 ?? "Gustav Brock" < gustav at cactus.dk >:
>>Hi Shamil
>>
>>Here it complained about a Bing bar that wasn't compatible. I could click to disable it, and that was it.
>>Since then zero issues.
>>
>>/gustav
>>
>>-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
>>Fra:  dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Salakhetdinov Shamil
>>Sendt: 27. februar 2013 14:47
>>Til: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>>Emne: Re: [dba-Tech] IE10 for Windows 7 Globally Available for Consumers and Businesses
>>
>>?Hi Gustav --
>>
>>Yes, IE10 is as speedy here on ASUS N76Vz and Win8 but when IE10 is about to display test results I'm getting "Internet Explorer has stopped working" dialog. That wasn't expected here I must admit. I have checked the same IE10 version with the same latest update with the same Minesweeper tests - they are working well on Win8 VM. The issue with IE 10 failing should be somehow related to add-ons I have installed with it, nothing special, and I have switched them off already and restarted IE10 - the same issue persists: Am I unlucky today or "Windows and IE will never change?"
>>
>>Thank you.
>>
>>-- Shamil
>>

From hans.andersen at phulse.com  Wed Feb 27 10:57:53 2013
From: hans.andersen at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2013 08:57:53 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Provision a New Linux Dev Environment in Nothing
	Flat with Puppet
In-Reply-To: <1361973172.279024779@f203.mail.ru>
References: <1361959408.922673997@f231.mail.ru>
	<D21C1B67-CE75-4103-84C2-1C335B84CFA4@phulse.com>
	<1361973172.279024779@f203.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <9ADCB28A-7CFA-4A33-A3C4-C0352A9567C7@phulse.com>

I haven't ever used it with Windows, so I can't speak to that, but I've used puppet manage 50+ Linux servers and, when you get to that scale, you need all the help you can get. Plus, it really helps as a reference point in documenting your machines.

- Hans


On 2013-02-27, at 5:52 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil <mcp2004 at mail.ru> wrote:

> Thank you, Hans,
> 
> I will definitely try to learn more on Puppet features - AFAIS it can be used to administer both Linux and MS Windows systems...
> 
> -- Shamil
> 
> 
> ?????, 27 ??????? 2013, 2:10 -08:00 ?? Hans-Christian Andersen <hans.andersen at phulse.com>:
>> I highly recommend Puppet. For me, it's a server admins dream.
>> 
>> - Hans
>> 
>> 
>> On 2013-02-27, at 2:03 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil < mcp2004 at mail.ru > wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi All --
>>> 
>>> I have just accidentally got at and read at the following articles:
>>> 
>>> Provision a New Linux Dev Environment in Nothing Flat with Puppet
>>> http://www.linux.com/news/software/applications/694157-setup-your-dev-environment-in-nothing-flat-with-puppet
>>> How to Jumpstart Linux Development with Puppet and Vagrant, Part Two
>>> http://www.linux.com/learn/tutorials/696255-jumpstart-your-linux-development-environment-with-puppet-and-vagrant
>>> and I wonder: "Provided I have an Oracle VM Virtual Box installed would that be be just a matter of compiling(collecting) a set of Vagrant and Puppet settings files to get (a set of) VM(s) image(s) downloaded, setup and made running together with their web servers, and even getting that VM(s) web server(s)' apps files synchronized with my development PC/VM, with all the changes I'd be making on that dev PC/VM web site project (instantly) replicated on a VM web server?"
>>> 
>>> FYI: I have just glanced at Puppet declarations and they seems to be rather easy to author - so I'm getting really curious.
>>> 
>>> Thank you.
>>> 
>>> -- Shamil
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From Gustav at cactus.dk  Wed Feb 27 12:59:45 2013
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2013 19:59:45 +0100
Subject: [dba-Tech] IE10 for Windows 7 Globally Available
	for	Consumersand Businesses
Message-ID: <s12e65d6.082@cactus.dk>

Hi Shamil

On my old Lenovo running Win8:

  IE10:
    IE10: 3.8
    Checker: 14.3
    Island: 5.3

Zero issues.

/gustav

>>> gustav at cactus.dk 27-02-13 12:58 >>>
Hi Shamil

Wow! IE10 is fast. 
Here is the HTML5 Minesweeper benchmark:

  http://ie.microsoft.com/testdrive/Performance/Minesweeper/Default.html

and my results in seconds for setting Huge:

  IE9:
    IE10: 12.6 
    Checker: 75.8(!)
    Island: 18.7

  IE10:
    IE10: 1.0
    Checker: 4.0
    Island: 3.9

This explains why my old Lenovo running Win8 with IE10 ran pretty much the same when browsing as my new ThinkStation with Win7 and IE9.

So, if you are a system admin who wishes to gain cheap user credits, update IE9 to IE10 at the soonest.

/gustav


-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Salakhetdinov Shamil
Sendt: 27. februar 2013 11:06
Til: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Emne: [dba-Tech] IE10 for Windows 7 Globally Available for Consumers and Businesses

 Hi All --

You have probably heard that news already: " IE10 for Windows 7 Globally Available for Consumers and Businesses":

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2013/02/26/ie10-for-windows-7-globally-available-for-consumers-and-businesses.aspx

Thank you.

-- Shamil 


From peter.brawley at earthlink.net  Wed Feb 27 13:26:58 2013
From: peter.brawley at earthlink.net (Peter Brawley)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2013 13:26:58 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] NOSQL goes SQL?
In-Reply-To: <FEA6999E9CD44A46803D7639AF169D2D@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <004e01ce1345$17269a00$4573ce00$@cactus.dk>,
	<ADB49870760E42859D4B3DDE1FDFAE14@creativesystemdesigns.com><512BF1D3.14786.5C581874@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><60563B0335494F17B7E763729DB51DBF@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<512C5C93.5030005@earthlink.net>
	<FEA6999E9CD44A46803D7639AF169D2D@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <512E5E02.3000902@earthlink.net>

On 2013-02-26 10:49 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote:
> Hi Peter:
>
> I find database deployment always a very interesting subject. Do you find
> clustered MySQL databases perform data manipulation at a reasonable speed
> even retrievals from your data warehouse?

Cluster expert I ain't, but what I read says it performs OK. The latest 
improvement combines MySQL cluster architecture with (nosql) Memcached. 
I just wanted to clarify that MySQL is fine with billions of rows.

PB

-----

>
> Facebook for a long time has been depended on a distributive system like you
> are describing. Thousands MySQL DBs clusters hold all the data but inorder
> to make all the data available in real-time it requires a NoSQL HBase which
> monitors and is the controller that managed all the data retrieval and
> deposits. Since then, because of performance requirements, more and more
> data is being moved into the Cassandra database.
>
> I can not say more I am not an expert in MySQL but I believe Hans is and he
> can give some additional insights. I believe one of the large sites that he
> manages uses a combination of MySQL and Cassandra.
>
> Jim
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Peter Brawley
> Sent: Monday, February 25, 2013 10:56 PM
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] NOSQL goes SQL?
>
>
> On 2013-02-25 10:22 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote:
>> Hi Stuart:
>>
>> At the risk of being repetitious, NoSQL is not trying to replace SQL. The
>> only reason similar products Map Reduce are around because SQL can not do
>> the job of managing huge data.
>>
>> SQL databases handles up to a million pieces of data while NoSQL databases
>> handle billions of pieces of data.
> MySQL handles loads like that. The DB needs to be structured correctly
> according to whether it's mainly OLTP or OLAP, of course, or split into
> OLTP and OLAP instances. It might also benefit from partitioning, or
> from deployment of a MySQL Cluster.
>
> PB
>
> -----
>
>>
> http://gigaom.com/2013/02/21/sql-is-whats-next-for-hadoop-heres-whos-doing-i
>> t
>>
>> Just think if the UI to NoSQL databases was really easy there goes those
> big
>> bucks for the techs that manage these ugly monstrosities now get. ;-)
>>
>> Jim
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart
> McLachlan
>> Sent: Monday, February 25, 2013 3:21 PM
>> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>> Subject: [dba-Tech] NOSQL goes SQL?
>>
>> So much for NOSQL being the answer to life, the universe and everything.
>>
>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/02/25/hortonworks_stinger/
>>
>> Hortonworks has unveiled the Stinger Initiative, a project to make
> Hadoop?s
>> Hive data
>> warehouse friendlier with SQL and faster.
>> ...
>>    Hadoop is a open-source implementation of Google?s MapReduce and a NoSQL
>> system.
>>
>> However, the NoSQL crowds realised they need to make their architectures
>> work better with
>> SQL-like tools used by businesses in the real world.
>> ...
>> According to Hortonworks, Stinger will make Hive "a more suitable tool for
>> the decision
>> support queries people want to perform on Hadoop".
>>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>


From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Wed Feb 27 13:34:27 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2013 23:34:27 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech]
 =?utf-8?q?IE10_for_Windows_7_Globally_Available_for=09?=
 =?utf-8?q?Consumersand_Businesses?=
In-Reply-To: <s12e65d6.082@cactus.dk>
References: <s12e65d6.082@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <1361993667.570380976@f285.mail.ru>

 Lucky man! :)

-- Shamil

?????, 27 ??????? 2013, 19:59 +01:00 ?? "Gustav Brock" <Gustav at cactus.dk>:
>Hi Shamil
>
>On my old Lenovo running Win8:
>
>??IE10:
>????IE10: 3.8
>????Checker: 14.3
>????Island: 5.3
>
>Zero issues.
>
>/gustav
>
>>>>  gustav at cactus.dk 27-02-13 12:58 >>>
>Hi Shamil
>
>Wow! IE10 is fast. 
>Here is the HTML5 Minesweeper benchmark:
>
>?? http://ie.microsoft.com/testdrive/Performance/Minesweeper/Default.html
>
>and my results in seconds for setting Huge:
>
>??IE9:
>????IE10: 12.6 
>????Checker: 75.8(!)
>????Island: 18.7
>
>??IE10:
>????IE10: 1.0
>????Checker: 4.0
>????Island: 3.9
>
>This explains why my old Lenovo running Win8 with IE10 ran pretty much the same when browsing as my new ThinkStation with Win7 and IE9.
>
>So, if you are a system admin who wishes to gain cheap user credits, update IE9 to IE10 at the soonest.
>
>/gustav
>
>
>-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
>Fra:  dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Salakhetdinov Shamil
>Sendt: 27. februar 2013 11:06
>Til: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>Emne: [dba-Tech] IE10 for Windows 7 Globally Available for Consumers and Businesses
>
>?Hi All --
>
>You have probably heard that news already: " IE10 for Windows 7 Globally Available for Consumers and Businesses":
>
>http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2013/02/26/ie10-for-windows-7-globally-available-for-consumers-and-businesses.aspx
>
>Thank you.
>
>-- Shamil 
>
>_______________________________________________
>dba-Tech mailing list
>dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>Website:  http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From accessd at shaw.ca  Wed Feb 27 13:35:32 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2013 11:35:32 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Provision a New Linux Dev Environment in Nothing
	Flat with Puppet
In-Reply-To: <1361959408.922673997@f231.mail.ru>
References: <1361959408.922673997@f231.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <87B2325043DC4A06920173894F2ADA39@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Shamil:

Thanks for posting this. I will definitely bookmark these links for future
reference and maybe development. It will all help given a vertical lerning
curve. The rest is a "Hans" question.

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov
Shamil
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 2:03 AM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: [dba-Tech] Provision a New Linux Dev Environment in Nothing Flat
with Puppet

 Hi All --

I have just accidentally got at and read at the following articles:

Provision a New Linux Dev Environment in Nothing Flat with Puppet
http://www.linux.com/news/software/applications/694157-setup-your-dev-enviro
nment-in-nothing-flat-with-puppet
How to Jumpstart Linux Development with Puppet and Vagrant, Part Two
http://www.linux.com/learn/tutorials/696255-jumpstart-your-linux-development
-environment-with-puppet-and-vagrant
and I wonder: "Provided I have an Oracle VM Virtual Box installed would that
be be just a matter of compiling(collecting) a set of Vagrant and Puppet
settings files to get (a set of) VM(s) image(s) downloaded, setup and made
running together with their web servers, and even getting that VM(s) web
server(s)' apps files synchronized with my development PC/VM, with all the
changes I'd be making on that dev PC/VM web site project (instantly)
replicated on a VM web server?"

FYI: I have just glanced at Puppet declarations and they seems to be rather
easy to author - so I'm getting really curious.

Thank you.

-- Shamil





_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From accessd at shaw.ca  Wed Feb 27 13:37:26 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2013 11:37:26 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] IE10 for Windows 7 Globally Available for Consumers
	and Businesses
In-Reply-To: <1361959535.34249754@f376.mail.ru>
References: <1361959535.34249754@f376.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <9A4C35429B404E329ECB649FFFB92A62@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Shamil:

Thanks for the link. I will definitely load IE10 on my Win7 for the upcoming
performance tests.

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov
Shamil
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 2:06 AM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: [dba-Tech] IE10 for Windows 7 Globally Available for Consumers and
Businesses

 Hi All --

You have probably heard that news already: " IE10 for Windows 7 Globally
Available for Consumers and Businesses":

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2013/02/26/ie10-for-windows-7-globally-av
ailable-for-consumers-and-businesses.aspx

Thank you.

-- Shamil
?
_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From accessd at shaw.ca  Wed Feb 27 13:53:09 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2013 11:53:09 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] NOSQL goes SQL?
In-Reply-To: <512E5E02.3000902@earthlink.net>
References: <004e01ce1345$17269a00$4573ce00$@cactus.dk>,
	<ADB49870760E42859D4B3DDE1FDFAE14@creativesystemdesigns.com><512BF1D3.14786.5C581874@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><60563B0335494F17B7E763729DB51DBF@creativesystemdesigns.com><512C5C93.5030005@earthlink.net><FEA6999E9CD44A46803D7639AF169D2D@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<512E5E02.3000902@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5D7A91E3811E4D6C9D7512924AB1D9BD@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Peter:

Thanks for the info. Maybe Hans could further comment as this all sounds
very familiar.

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Peter Brawley
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 11:27 AM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] NOSQL goes SQL?

On 2013-02-26 10:49 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote:
> Hi Peter:
>
> I find database deployment always a very interesting subject. Do you find
> clustered MySQL databases perform data manipulation at a reasonable speed
> even retrievals from your data warehouse?

Cluster expert I ain't, but what I read says it performs OK. The latest 
improvement combines MySQL cluster architecture with (nosql) Memcached. 
I just wanted to clarify that MySQL is fine with billions of rows.

PB

-----

>
> Facebook for a long time has been depended on a distributive system like
you
> are describing. Thousands MySQL DBs clusters hold all the data but inorder
> to make all the data available in real-time it requires a NoSQL HBase
which
> monitors and is the controller that managed all the data retrieval and
> deposits. Since then, because of performance requirements, more and more
> data is being moved into the Cassandra database.
>
> I can not say more I am not an expert in MySQL but I believe Hans is and
he
> can give some additional insights. I believe one of the large sites that
he
> manages uses a combination of MySQL and Cassandra.
>
> Jim
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Peter Brawley
> Sent: Monday, February 25, 2013 10:56 PM
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] NOSQL goes SQL?
>
>
> On 2013-02-25 10:22 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote:
>> Hi Stuart:
>>
>> At the risk of being repetitious, NoSQL is not trying to replace SQL. The
>> only reason similar products Map Reduce are around because SQL can not do
>> the job of managing huge data.
>>
>> SQL databases handles up to a million pieces of data while NoSQL
databases
>> handle billions of pieces of data.
> MySQL handles loads like that. The DB needs to be structured correctly
> according to whether it's mainly OLTP or OLAP, of course, or split into
> OLTP and OLAP instances. It might also benefit from partitioning, or
> from deployment of a MySQL Cluster.
>
> PB
>
> -----
>
>>
>
http://gigaom.com/2013/02/21/sql-is-whats-next-for-hadoop-heres-whos-doing-i
>> t
>>
>> Just think if the UI to NoSQL databases was really easy there goes those
> big
>> bucks for the techs that manage these ugly monstrosities now get. ;-)
>>
>> Jim
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart
> McLachlan
>> Sent: Monday, February 25, 2013 3:21 PM
>> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>> Subject: [dba-Tech] NOSQL goes SQL?
>>
>> So much for NOSQL being the answer to life, the universe and everything.
>>
>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/02/25/hortonworks_stinger/
>>
>> Hortonworks has unveiled the Stinger Initiative, a project to make
> Hadoop?s
>> Hive data
>> warehouse friendlier with SQL and faster.
>> ...
>>    Hadoop is a open-source implementation of Google?s MapReduce and a
NoSQL
>> system.
>>
>> However, the NoSQL crowds realised they need to make their architectures
>> work better with
>> SQL-like tools used by businesses in the real world.
>> ...
>> According to Hortonworks, Stinger will make Hive "a more suitable tool
for
>> the decision
>> support queries people want to perform on Hadoop".
>>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Wed Feb 27 14:06:19 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 00:06:19 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech]
 =?utf-8?q?IE10_for_Windows_7_Globally_Available_for_Co?=
 =?utf-8?q?nsumers_and_Businesses?=
In-Reply-To: <9A4C35429B404E329ECB649FFFB92A62@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <1361959535.34249754@f376.mail.ru>
	<9A4C35429B404E329ECB649FFFB92A62@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <1361995579.649911907@f164.mail.ru>

 Hi Jim --

Waiting, waiting.... :)

Thank you.

-- Shamil

?????, 27 ??????? 2013, 11:37 -08:00 ?? "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca>:
>Hi Shamil:
>
>Thanks for the link. I will definitely load IE10 on my Win7 for the upcoming
>performance tests.
>
>Jim
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From:  dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov
>Shamil
>Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 2:06 AM
>To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>Subject: [dba-Tech] IE10 for Windows 7 Globally Available for Consumers and
>Businesses
>
>?Hi All --
>
>You have probably heard that news already: " IE10 for Windows 7 Globally
>Available for Consumers and Businesses":
>
>http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2013/02/26/ie10-for-windows-7-globally-av
>ailable-for-consumers-and-businesses.aspx
>
>Thank you.
>
>-- Shamil
>?
>_______________________________________________
>dba-Tech mailing list
>dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>Website:  http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>dba-Tech mailing list
>dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>Website:  http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From accessd at shaw.ca  Wed Feb 27 14:52:11 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2013 12:52:11 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] IE10 for Windows 7 Globally Available for Consumers
	and Businesses
In-Reply-To: <1361995579.649911907@f164.mail.ru>
References: <1361959535.34249754@f376.mail.ru><9A4C35429B404E329ECB649FFFB92A62@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<1361995579.649911907@f164.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <6D616D73E3CF47E088E71F96898F0787@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Shamil:

Didn't I say the middle of next month? ;-)

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov
Shamil
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 12:06 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] IE10 for Windows 7 Globally Available for Consumers
and Businesses

 Hi Jim --

Waiting, waiting.... :)

Thank you.

-- Shamil

?????, 27 ??????? 2013, 11:37 -08:00 ?? "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca>:
>Hi Shamil:
>
>Thanks for the link. I will definitely load IE10 on my Win7 for the
upcoming
>performance tests.
>
>Jim
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From:  dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov
>Shamil
>Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 2:06 AM
>To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>Subject: [dba-Tech] IE10 for Windows 7 Globally Available for Consumers and
>Businesses
>
>?Hi All --
>
>You have probably heard that news already: " IE10 for Windows 7 Globally
>Available for Consumers and Businesses":
>
>http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2013/02/26/ie10-for-windows-7-globally-a
v
>ailable-for-consumers-and-businesses.aspx
>
>Thank you.
>
>-- Shamil
>?
>_______________________________________________
>dba-Tech mailing list
>dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>Website:  http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>dba-Tech mailing list
>dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
>Website:  http://www.databaseadvisors.com

_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Wed Feb 27 15:13:32 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 01:13:32 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech]
 =?utf-8?q?IE10_for_Windows_7_Globally_Available_for_Co?=
 =?utf-8?q?nsumers_and_Businesses?=
In-Reply-To: <6D616D73E3CF47E088E71F96898F0787@creativesystemdesigns.com>
References: <1361959535.34249754@f376.mail.ru>
	<1361995579.649911907@f164.mail.ru>
	<6D616D73E3CF47E088E71F96898F0787@creativesystemdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <1361999612.222601635@f346.mail.ru>

 Hi Jim --

Yes, you did, I remember, I just have thought you might have changed you plans and you have decided to test IE10 earlier as you don't need to install Win8 now to get IE10 up&running :)

-- Shamil


?????, 27 ??????? 2013, 12:52 -08:00 ?? "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca>:
>Hi Shamil:
>
>Didn't I say the middle of next month? ;-)
>
>Jim
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From:  dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov
>Shamil
>Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 12:06 PM
>To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] IE10 for Windows 7 Globally Available for Consumers
>and Businesses
>
>?Hi Jim --
>
>Waiting, waiting.... :)
>
>Thank you.
>
>-- Shamil
>
>?????, 27 ??????? 2013, 11:37 -08:00 ?? "Jim Lawrence" < accessd at shaw.ca >:
>>Hi Shamil:
>>
>>Thanks for the link. I will definitely load IE10 on my Win7 for the
>upcoming
>>performance tests.
>>
>>Jim
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From:  dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>>[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov
>>Shamil
>>Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 2:06 AM
>>To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>>Subject: [dba-Tech] IE10 for Windows 7 Globally Available for Consumers and
>>Businesses
>>
>>?Hi All --
>>
>>You have probably heard that news already: " IE10 for Windows 7 Globally
>>Available for Consumers and Businesses":
>>
>> http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2013/02/26/ie10-for-windows-7-globally-a
>v
>>ailable-for-consumers-and-businesses.aspx
>>
>>Thank you.
>>
>>-- Shamil

From accessd at shaw.ca  Wed Feb 27 20:14:48 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2013 18:14:48 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] IE10 for Windows 7 Globally Available for Consumers
	and Businesses
In-Reply-To: <1361999612.222601635@f346.mail.ru>
References: <1361959535.34249754@f376.mail.ru><1361995579.649911907@f164.mail.ru><6D616D73E3CF47E088E71F96898F0787@creativesystemdesigns.com>
	<1361999612.222601635@f346.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <CBE2AA44C7CE466298AC769F496E89B5@creativesystemdesigns.com>

Hi Shamil:

IE might be faster but the programmer here isn't. ;-)

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov
Shamil
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 1:14 PM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] IE10 for Windows 7 Globally Available for Consumers
and Businesses

 Hi Jim --

Yes, you did, I remember, I just have thought you might have changed you
plans and you have decided to test IE10 earlier as you don't need to install
Win8 now to get IE10 up&running :)

-- Shamil


?????, 27 ??????? 2013, 12:52 -08:00 ?? "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca>:
>Hi Shamil:
>
>Didn't I say the middle of next month? ;-)
>
>Jim
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From:  dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov
>Shamil
>Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 12:06 PM
>To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] IE10 for Windows 7 Globally Available for Consumers
>and Businesses
>
>?Hi Jim --
>
>Waiting, waiting.... :)
>
>Thank you.
>
>-- Shamil
>
>?????, 27 ??????? 2013, 11:37 -08:00 ?? "Jim Lawrence" < accessd at shaw.ca >:
>>Hi Shamil:
>>
>>Thanks for the link. I will definitely load IE10 on my Win7 for the
>upcoming
>>performance tests.
>>
>>Jim
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From:  dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>>[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov
>>Shamil
>>Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 2:06 AM
>>To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>>Subject: [dba-Tech] IE10 for Windows 7 Globally Available for Consumers
and
>>Businesses
>>
>>?Hi All --
>>
>>You have probably heard that news already: " IE10 for Windows 7 Globally
>>Available for Consumers and Businesses":
>>
>>
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2013/02/26/ie10-for-windows-7-globally-a
>v
>>ailable-for-consumers-and-businesses.aspx
>>
>>Thank you.
>>
>>-- Shamil
_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From fuller.artful at gmail.com  Thu Feb 28 09:30:58 2013
From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 10:30:58 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] Am I missing something?
Message-ID: <CAEPJO1j1WgXOd7zj_UAfgQGwGiz=ufYQahMSbQQmAzOJayK4vA@mail.gmail.com>

I have read a few articles about SSDs and how to set them up as the boot
drive. Today I received in my inbox an offer from PC Mag for a Samsung
128GB internal SSD for the ridiculously low price of $134.99.

I have a few questions.
0. Does one need to format these things or do they come pre-formatted, and
if so, as what? FAT-32 or NTFS or...?
1. There's a slot on my box that accepts SSDs. Is that what is meant by
"internal"?
2. Is it possible to set up one of these babies as the boot drive? I'm
assuming that this setup would boot way more quickly than the current
boot-from-hard-disk setup.
3. Given the whopping size of this thing, I can conceive of installing
virtually all my frequently-used apps on it; and there would still be
abundant space left. I'm in and out of Access, Word and OneNote several
times per day, plus a few other things as well. Could I re-install all
these apps on the SSD?

-- 
TIA,
Arthur

From rockysmolin at bchacc.com  Thu Feb 28 10:36:12 2013
From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 08:36:12 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Am I missing something?
In-Reply-To: <CAEPJO1j1WgXOd7zj_UAfgQGwGiz=ufYQahMSbQQmAzOJayK4vA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEPJO1j1WgXOd7zj_UAfgQGwGiz=ufYQahMSbQQmAzOJayK4vA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7395C85BD8654FA7B6B9B2BD8E4285AE@HAL9007>

Noah added one to the machine he built last year and is ecstatic with the
boot and response time.  

I'd like to put one in my main box but it's so stable I'm reluctant to mess
with it.

I can put you in touch with him if you want.  He did the whole thing himself
so he can probably guide you. 

R


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 7:31 AM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: [dba-Tech] Am I missing something?

I have read a few articles about SSDs and how to set them up as the boot
drive. Today I received in my inbox an offer from PC Mag for a Samsung 128GB
internal SSD for the ridiculously low price of $134.99.

I have a few questions.
0. Does one need to format these things or do they come pre-formatted, and
if so, as what? FAT-32 or NTFS or...?
1. There's a slot on my box that accepts SSDs. Is that what is meant by
"internal"?
2. Is it possible to set up one of these babies as the boot drive? I'm
assuming that this setup would boot way more quickly than the current
boot-from-hard-disk setup.
3. Given the whopping size of this thing, I can conceive of installing
virtually all my frequently-used apps on it; and there would still be
abundant space left. I'm in and out of Access, Word and OneNote several
times per day, plus a few other things as well. Could I re-install all these
apps on the SSD?

--
TIA,
Arthur
_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From gustav at cactus.dk  Thu Feb 28 11:35:23 2013
From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 18:35:23 +0100
Subject: [dba-Tech] Am I missing something?
Message-ID: <019401ce15d9$fd36da00$f7a48e00$@cactus.dk>

Hi Arthur and Rocky

It's really a zero-issue task. It installs and mounts just like any other
harddrive.

My ThinkStation with an Intel drive turns on so fast that the Windows 7
animation during boot doesn't finish, and - as I usually do - if you wake it
from sleep, it is ready in less than a second. Windows 8 is even faster.

/gustav

-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Rocky Smolin
Sendt: 28. februar 2013 17:36
Til: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
Emne: Re: [dba-Tech] Am I missing something?

Noah added one to the machine he built last year and is ecstatic with the
boot and response time.  

I'd like to put one in my main box but it's so stable I'm reluctant to mess
with it.

I can put you in touch with him if you want.  He did the whole thing himself
so he can probably guide you. 

R


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 7:31 AM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: [dba-Tech] Am I missing something?

I have read a few articles about SSDs and how to set them up as the boot
drive. Today I received in my inbox an offer from PC Mag for a Samsung 128GB
internal SSD for the ridiculously low price of $134.99.

I have a few questions.
0. Does one need to format these things or do they come pre-formatted, and
if so, as what? FAT-32 or NTFS or...?
1. There's a slot on my box that accepts SSDs. Is that what is meant by
"internal"?
2. Is it possible to set up one of these babies as the boot drive? I'm
assuming that this setup would boot way more quickly than the current
boot-from-hard-disk setup.
3. Given the whopping size of this thing, I can conceive of installing
virtually all my frequently-used apps on it; and there would still be
abundant space left. I'm in and out of Access, Word and OneNote several
times per day, plus a few other things as well. Could I re-install all these
apps on the SSD?

--
TIA,
Arthur 



From fuller.artful at gmail.com  Thu Feb 28 11:53:41 2013
From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 12:53:41 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] Am I missing something?
In-Reply-To: <019401ce15d9$fd36da00$f7a48e00$@cactus.dk>
References: <019401ce15d9$fd36da00$f7a48e00$@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <CAEPJO1iVQ4KHXMq9cWf+KeRKEpK1VEt0nreNmNrhQYECP=DL8A@mail.gmail.com>

Oh Lord, I think that I'm going to have an organism!

That reminds me of an event that occurred about 20 years ago, when my best
friend's son was about twelve years old, and he declared that girls were
better than boys because they can have multiple organisms. I still giggle
at this. Yes, I'm still giggling at this one.



On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 12:35 PM, Gustav Brock <gustav at cactus.dk> wrote:

> Hi Arthur and Rocky
>
> It's really a zero-issue task. It installs and mounts just like any other
> harddrive.
>
> My ThinkStation with an Intel drive turns on so fast that the Windows 7
> animation during boot doesn't finish, and - as I usually do - if you wake
> it
> from sleep, it is ready in less than a second. Windows 8 is even faster.
>
> /gustav
>
> -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
> Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Rocky Smolin
> Sendt: 28. februar 2013 17:36
> Til: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
> Emne: Re: [dba-Tech] Am I missing something?
>
> Noah added one to the machine he built last year and is ecstatic with the
> boot and response time.
>
> I'd like to put one in my main box but it's so stable I'm reluctant to mess
> with it.
>
> I can put you in touch with him if you want.  He did the whole thing
> himself
> so he can probably guide you.
>
> R
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller
> Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 7:31 AM
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Subject: [dba-Tech] Am I missing something?
>
> I have read a few articles about SSDs and how to set them up as the boot
> drive. Today I received in my inbox an offer from PC Mag for a Samsung
> 128GB
> internal SSD for the ridiculously low price of $134.99.
>
> I have a few questions.
> 0. Does one need to format these things or do they come pre-formatted, and
> if so, as what? FAT-32 or NTFS or...?
> 1. There's a slot on my box that accepts SSDs. Is that what is meant by
> "internal"?
> 2. Is it possible to set up one of these babies as the boot drive? I'm
> assuming that this setup would boot way more quickly than the current
> boot-from-hard-disk setup.
> 3. Given the whopping size of this thing, I can conceive of installing
> virtually all my frequently-used apps on it; and there would still be
> abundant space left. I'm in and out of Access, Word and OneNote several
> times per day, plus a few other things as well. Could I re-install all
> these
> apps on the SSD?
>
> --
> TIA,
> Arthur
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>



-- 
Arthur
Cell: 647.710.1314

Prediction is difficult, especially of the future.
  -- Niels Bohr

From rockysmolin at bchacc.com  Thu Feb 28 12:10:22 2013
From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 10:10:22 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Am I missing something?
In-Reply-To: <CAEPJO1iVQ4KHXMq9cWf+KeRKEpK1VEt0nreNmNrhQYECP=DL8A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <019401ce15d9$fd36da00$f7a48e00$@cactus.dk>
	<CAEPJO1iVQ4KHXMq9cWf+KeRKEpK1VEt0nreNmNrhQYECP=DL8A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F1FCC5AFC93E4BC5A8350DA9BCC95CAC@HAL9007>

And I'm still envious.  But we digress...

R


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 9:54 AM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Am I missing something?

Oh Lord, I think that I'm going to have an organism!

That reminds me of an event that occurred about 20 years ago, when my best
friend's son was about twelve years old, and he declared that girls were
better than boys because they can have multiple organisms. I still giggle at
this. Yes, I'm still giggling at this one.



On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 12:35 PM, Gustav Brock <gustav at cactus.dk> wrote:

> Hi Arthur and Rocky
>
> It's really a zero-issue task. It installs and mounts just like any 
> other harddrive.
>
> My ThinkStation with an Intel drive turns on so fast that the Windows 
> 7 animation during boot doesn't finish, and - as I usually do - if you 
> wake it from sleep, it is ready in less than a second. Windows 8 is 
> even faster.
>
> /gustav
>
> -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
> Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Rocky 
> Smolin
> Sendt: 28. februar 2013 17:36
> Til: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
> Emne: Re: [dba-Tech] Am I missing something?
>
> Noah added one to the machine he built last year and is ecstatic with 
> the boot and response time.
>
> I'd like to put one in my main box but it's so stable I'm reluctant to 
> mess with it.
>
> I can put you in touch with him if you want.  He did the whole thing 
> himself so he can probably guide you.
>
> R
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur 
> Fuller
> Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 7:31 AM
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Subject: [dba-Tech] Am I missing something?
>
> I have read a few articles about SSDs and how to set them up as the 
> boot drive. Today I received in my inbox an offer from PC Mag for a 
> Samsung 128GB internal SSD for the ridiculously low price of $134.99.
>
> I have a few questions.
> 0. Does one need to format these things or do they come pre-formatted, 
> and if so, as what? FAT-32 or NTFS or...?
> 1. There's a slot on my box that accepts SSDs. Is that what is meant 
> by "internal"?
> 2. Is it possible to set up one of these babies as the boot drive? I'm 
> assuming that this setup would boot way more quickly than the current 
> boot-from-hard-disk setup.
> 3. Given the whopping size of this thing, I can conceive of installing 
> virtually all my frequently-used apps on it; and there would still be 
> abundant space left. I'm in and out of Access, Word and OneNote 
> several times per day, plus a few other things as well. Could I 
> re-install all these apps on the SSD?
>
> --
> TIA,
> Arthur
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>



--
Arthur
Cell: 647.710.1314

Prediction is difficult, especially of the future.
  -- Niels Bohr
_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From tinanfields at torchlake.com  Thu Feb 28 12:15:45 2013
From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 13:15:45 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] Am I missing something?
In-Reply-To: <CAEPJO1iVQ4KHXMq9cWf+KeRKEpK1VEt0nreNmNrhQYECP=DL8A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <019401ce15d9$fd36da00$f7a48e00$@cactus.dk>
	<CAEPJO1iVQ4KHXMq9cWf+KeRKEpK1VEt0nreNmNrhQYECP=DL8A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <512F9ED1.2030501@torchlake.com>

organisms - well, yes, I suppose.  Does having several babies count?  Or 
would they have to be multiple births, as in twins or triplets, to count 
as several organisms?
:-)
T

Tina Norris Fields
tinanfields at torchlake.com
231-322-2787

On 2/28/2013 12:53 PM, Arthur Fuller wrote:
> Oh Lord, I think that I'm going to have an organism!
>
> That reminds me of an event that occurred about 20 years ago, when my best
> friend's son was about twelve years old, and he declared that girls were
> better than boys because they can have multiple organisms. I still giggle
> at this. Yes, I'm still giggling at this one.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 12:35 PM, Gustav Brock <gustav at cactus.dk> wrote:
>
>> Hi Arthur and Rocky
>>
>> It's really a zero-issue task. It installs and mounts just like any other
>> harddrive.
>>
>> My ThinkStation with an Intel drive turns on so fast that the Windows 7
>> animation during boot doesn't finish, and - as I usually do - if you wake
>> it
>> from sleep, it is ready in less than a second. Windows 8 is even faster.
>>
>> /gustav
>>
>>


From df.waters at comcast.net  Thu Feb 28 12:21:45 2013
From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 12:21:45 -0600
Subject: [dba-Tech] Am I missing something?
In-Reply-To: <CAEPJO1j1WgXOd7zj_UAfgQGwGiz=ufYQahMSbQQmAzOJayK4vA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEPJO1j1WgXOd7zj_UAfgQGwGiz=ufYQahMSbQQmAzOJayK4vA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <005601ce15e0$7738ecc0$65aac640$@comcast.net>

Hi Arthur,

Last year I switched to an SSD for the OS and Apps, and kept all data on the
E drive.

I used this article to learn how - it's really good!  
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/bott/windows-7-and-ssds-just-how-fast-are-they/290
2

This is the first of a 3-part series.

And yes - it's really fast!

Have fun!
Dan

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 9:31 AM
To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
Subject: [dba-Tech] Am I missing something?

I have read a few articles about SSDs and how to set them up as the boot
drive. Today I received in my inbox an offer from PC Mag for a Samsung 128GB
internal SSD for the ridiculously low price of $134.99.

I have a few questions.
0. Does one need to format these things or do they come pre-formatted, and
if so, as what? FAT-32 or NTFS or...?
1. There's a slot on my box that accepts SSDs. Is that what is meant by
"internal"?
2. Is it possible to set up one of these babies as the boot drive? I'm
assuming that this setup would boot way more quickly than the current
boot-from-hard-disk setup.
3. Given the whopping size of this thing, I can conceive of installing
virtually all my frequently-used apps on it; and there would still be
abundant space left. I'm in and out of Access, Word and OneNote several
times per day, plus a few other things as well. Could I re-install all these
apps on the SSD?

--
TIA,
Arthur
_______________________________________________
dba-Tech mailing list
dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com


From fuller.artful at gmail.com  Thu Feb 28 12:23:54 2013
From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 13:23:54 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] Am I missing something?
In-Reply-To: <F1FCC5AFC93E4BC5A8350DA9BCC95CAC@HAL9007>
References: <019401ce15d9$fd36da00$f7a48e00$@cactus.dk>
	<CAEPJO1iVQ4KHXMq9cWf+KeRKEpK1VEt0nreNmNrhQYECP=DL8A@mail.gmail.com>
	<F1FCC5AFC93E4BC5A8350DA9BCC95CAC@HAL9007>
Message-ID: <CAEPJO1gtCu9oiHFcd0K9Qsy-TOxpWuXcMx+o6FKm19cFSvudig@mail.gmail.com>

Enough of that. let's return to SSDs.
Q1: is it possible to boot from a SSD? And if so, how much quicker is it?
Q2. Suppose I create a couple of these things, one being Win and another
being Linux, then could I switch and boot very rapidly?


On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 1:10 PM, Rocky Smolin <rockysmolin at bchacc.com>wrote:

> And I'm still envious.  But we digress...
>
> R
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller
> Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 9:54 AM
> To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Am I missing something?
>
> Oh Lord, I think that I'm going to have an organism!
>
> That reminds me of an event that occurred about 20 years ago, when my best
> friend's son was about twelve years old, and he declared that girls were
> better than boys because they can have multiple organisms. I still giggle
> at
> this. Yes, I'm still giggling at this one.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 12:35 PM, Gustav Brock <gustav at cactus.dk> wrote:
>
> > Hi Arthur and Rocky
> >
> > It's really a zero-issue task. It installs and mounts just like any
> > other harddrive.
> >
> > My ThinkStation with an Intel drive turns on so fast that the Windows
> > 7 animation during boot doesn't finish, and - as I usually do - if you
> > wake it from sleep, it is ready in less than a second. Windows 8 is
> > even faster.
> >
> > /gustav
> >
> > -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
> > Fra: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Rocky
> > Smolin
> > Sendt: 28. februar 2013 17:36
> > Til: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
> > Emne: Re: [dba-Tech] Am I missing something?
> >
> > Noah added one to the machine he built last year and is ecstatic with
> > the boot and response time.
> >
> > I'd like to put one in my main box but it's so stable I'm reluctant to
> > mess with it.
> >
> > I can put you in touch with him if you want.  He did the whole thing
> > himself so he can probably guide you.
> >
> > R
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> > [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur
> > Fuller
> > Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 7:31 AM
> > To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
> > Subject: [dba-Tech] Am I missing something?
> >
> > I have read a few articles about SSDs and how to set them up as the
> > boot drive. Today I received in my inbox an offer from PC Mag for a
> > Samsung 128GB internal SSD for the ridiculously low price of $134.99.
> >
> > I have a few questions.
> > 0. Does one need to format these things or do they come pre-formatted,
> > and if so, as what? FAT-32 or NTFS or...?
> > 1. There's a slot on my box that accepts SSDs. Is that what is meant
> > by "internal"?
> > 2. Is it possible to set up one of these babies as the boot drive? I'm
> > assuming that this setup would boot way more quickly than the current
> > boot-from-hard-disk setup.
> > 3. Given the whopping size of this thing, I can conceive of installing
> > virtually all my frequently-used apps on it; and there would still be
> > abundant space left. I'm in and out of Access, Word and OneNote
> > several times per day, plus a few other things as well. Could I
> > re-install all these apps on the SSD?
> >
> > --
> > TIA,
> > Arthur
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > dba-Tech mailing list
> > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Arthur
> Cell: 647.710.1314
>
> Prediction is difficult, especially of the future.
>   -- Niels Bohr
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-Tech mailing list
> dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech
> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>



-- 
Arthur
Cell: 647.710.1314

Prediction is difficult, especially of the future.
  -- Niels Bohr

From fuller.artful at gmail.com  Thu Feb 28 12:28:41 2013
From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 13:28:41 -0500
Subject: [dba-Tech] Am I missing something?
In-Reply-To: <005601ce15e0$7738ecc0$65aac640$@comcast.net>
References: <CAEPJO1j1WgXOd7zj_UAfgQGwGiz=ufYQahMSbQQmAzOJayK4vA@mail.gmail.com>
	<005601ce15e0$7738ecc0$65aac640$@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <CAEPJO1hRbJ5JGExJ07wgKgWPbJ3vZjDzRNMPJBVrEfry=arG1g@mail.gmail.com>

Tina. I leave that re-def to you. Apparently you are an expert in this
field, without even citing your surname.

This is way off topic but that's why I love this place.


From accessd at shaw.ca  Thu Feb 28 12:41:43 2013
From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 10:41:43 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Liquid cooled
In-Reply-To: <005601ce15e0$7738ecc0$65aac640$@comcast.net>
References: <CAEPJO1j1WgXOd7zj_UAfgQGwGiz=ufYQahMSbQQmAzOJayK4vA@mail.gmail.com>
	<005601ce15e0$7738ecc0$65aac640$@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <F1CE014F74EC42D0BFE686CA6394E85C@creativesystemdesigns.com>

One day your laptops and tablets may slosh when the move and breaking open a
laptop may cause a big mess. 

Check out the new cooling liquid that does not short out electrical parts.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/02/28/wet_servers_cut_cooling_costs_resear
ch_leeds_university/

Jim


From mcp2004 at mail.ru  Thu Feb 28 13:53:56 2013
From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 23:53:56 +0400
Subject: [dba-Tech] =?utf-8?q?Am_I_missing_something=3F?=
In-Reply-To: <019401ce15d9$fd36da00$f7a48e00$@cactus.dk>
References: <019401ce15d9$fd36da00$f7a48e00$@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <1362081235.623354264@f47.mail.ru>

 Hi Arthur --

Yes, I also have 256GB SSD as my system drive for ASUS N76Vz/Win8 - it reboots and gets out of 'sleep' mode as speedy as Gustav's ThinkStation. The second drive is 1TB HDD where I keep VMs' images, virtual HDDs, archives, backups etc.

-- Shamil?


???????, 28 ??????? 2013, 18:35 +01:00 ?? "Gustav Brock" <gustav at cactus.dk>:
>Hi Arthur and Rocky
>
>It's really a zero-issue task. It installs and mounts just like any other
>harddrive.
>
>My ThinkStation with an Intel drive turns on so fast that the Windows 7
>animation during boot doesn't finish, and - as I usually do - if you wake it
>from sleep, it is ready in less than a second. Windows 8 is even faster.
>
>/gustav
>
>-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
>Fra:  dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Rocky Smolin
>Sendt: 28. februar 2013 17:36
>Til: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'
>Emne: Re: [dba-Tech] Am I missing something?
>
>Noah added one to the machine he built last year and is ecstatic with the
>boot and response time. 
>
>I'd like to put one in my main box but it's so stable I'm reluctant to mess
>with it.
>
>I can put you in touch with him if you want.  He did the whole thing himself
>so he can probably guide you. 
>
>R
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From:  dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>[mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller
>Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 7:31 AM
>To: Discussion of Hardware and Software issues
>Subject: [dba-Tech] Am I missing something?
>
>I have read a few articles about SSDs and how to set them up as the boot
>drive. Today I received in my inbox an offer from PC Mag for a Samsung 128GB
>internal SSD for the ridiculously low price of $134.99.
>
>I have a few questions.
>0. Does one need to format these things or do they come pre-formatted, and
>if so, as what? FAT-32 or NTFS or...?
>1. There's a slot on my box that accepts SSDs. Is that what is meant by
>"internal"?
>2. Is it possible to set up one of these babies as the boot drive? I'm
>assuming that this setup would boot way more quickly than the current
>boot-from-hard-disk setup.
>3. Given the whopping size of this thing, I can conceive of installing
>virtually all my frequently-used apps on it; and there would still be
>abundant space left. I'm in and out of Access, Word and OneNote several
>times per day, plus a few other things as well. Could I re-install all these
>apps on the SSD?
>
>--
>TIA,
>Arthur 
>
>

From rockysmolin at bchacc.com  Thu Feb 28 21:03:24 2013
From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 19:03:24 -0800
Subject: [dba-Tech] Back to 8
Message-ID: <268F3780ECCE4263B11792F9784EAE3F@HAL9007>

Dear Lists:
 
So I upgraded to IE 10.  Looked good.  Couldn't tell much difference.  But
my connection to a client's server won't work in 10.  So the not-work guy to
em I have to go back to 8.  So - how do I do that?
 
MTIA
 
Rocky