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<DIV><SPAN class=093083018-01082003><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2>Yes, I
would suppose that it would cost<SPAN class=812283018-01082003> even more if the
disks had huge dents in them!</SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
dba-tech-bounces@databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces@databaseadvisors.com]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Jon
Tydda<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, August 01, 2003 10:06 AM<BR><B>To:</B>
'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [dba-Tech]
Retrieving Deleted Files off a hard drive<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=974540615-01082003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>€250??? I got quoted £2500 minimum to recover a 4gb drive... that's
nearly €3750!!!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=974540615-01082003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=974540615-01082003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>I'm
obviously looking in the wrong places :-)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=974540615-01082003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=974540615-01082003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=974540615-01082003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Jon</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Erwin Craps
[mailto:Erwin.Craps@ithelps.be]<BR><B>Sent:</B> 01 August 2003
16:03<BR><B>To:</B> Discussion of Hardware and Software
issues<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [dba-Tech] Retrieving Deleted Files off a hard
drive<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687345414-01082003>If
pieces of the platters from a disk are intact data can be recuperated from
that to....</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=687345414-01082003></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687345414-01082003>I
indeed do believe to have read something that when you overwrite a cluster you
gonna have a fresh magnetismem and an old magnestismen (you know hard disks
are based on magetisme). With superiour equipment they are able to ignore the
fresh magnetisme and go 1 or maybe more levels lower to old
magnetismens....</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=687345414-01082003></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687345414-01082003>I
beleive recuperating a crashed disk or accidently formatted disk would cost
you around € 250 (in Belgium).</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=687345414-01082003>Depends on several factors
ofcourse.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=687345414-01082003></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=687345414-01082003>Encypting the disk would be
better...</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687345414-01082003>I
use to know hardware controllers (SPEED!) that encrypted before writing
to disk.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687345414-01082003>You
needed to put an electronic diskette in to the drive to start from your
hd.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=687345414-01082003></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=687345414-01082003>I
knew a bank that did that for all important pcs...</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=687345414-01082003></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=687345414-01082003></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=687345414-01082003>Erwin</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=687345414-01082003></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=nl dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> John Bartow
[mailto:jbartow@fastbytes.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, August 01, 2003 4:26
PM<BR><B>To:</B> Discussion of Hardware and Software
issues<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [dba-Tech] Retrieving Deleted Files off a hard
drive<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=296550814-01082003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>As
does Norton Utilitie's "Wipe Info" program. I haven't been able to recover
the data, but then I'm not a specialist at it either :o)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=296550814-01082003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=296550814-01082003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Even if Symantec or McAfee garaunteed that it would be unrecoverable
I would question it because they both have to deal with the US govt and I
don't know their laws pertaining to this. If they try to control it the
wway they have been attempting to control encryption then I think Martin's
friend is correct throwing it in a hot fire is the only "for sure"
method".</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=296550814-01082003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=296550814-01082003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>I
go through this discussion every now and again with my accounting clients.
They ask me about "permanently" removing client info from the hard
drive of old PCs they are going to discard, I physically remove
the hard drive and damage it and then give it back to them. It builds their
confidence in my thoroughness (and gives them second thoughts about buying a
cheap solution in a box). I don't personally believe that there is no way to
destroy the magnetic signatures of files on a hard drive - I just don't know
how to do it or how to prove it can be done.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=296550814-01082003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>:o)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=296550814-01082003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=296550814-01082003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>I
guess the bottom line is that if a particular company wants dirt on someone
the employ they can find with less expensive methods than paying a data
recovery specialist - they're not cheap!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=296550814-01082003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=296550814-01082003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>JB</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=296550814-01082003></SPAN><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT
size=2><SPAN class=296550814-01082003><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=296550814-01082003> </SPAN>-----Original
Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> dba-tech-bounces@databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces@databaseadvisors.com]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Jon
Tydda<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, August 01, 2003 4:38 AM<BR><B>To:</B>
'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE:
[dba-Tech] Retrieving Deleted Files off a hard
drive<BR><BR></DIV></FONT></FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV><SPAN class=443503809-01082003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>McAfee Shredder does that - passes over the disk 7 times
writing junk and erasing it on each pass, making it unrecoverable
(they claim).</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=443503809-01082003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=443503809-01082003></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=443503809-01082003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Jon</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Erwin Craps
[mailto:Erwin.Craps@ithelps.be]<BR><B>Sent:</B> 01 August 2003
10:37<BR><B>To:</B> Discussion of Hardware and Software
issues<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [dba-Tech] Retrieving Deleted Files off a
hard drive<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=406282409-01082003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Formattting a drive will only remove the FAT (File Allocation
Tabe), that the index of where the files are positoned on the
drive.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=406282409-01082003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Formattig does alos put some positionmakers on the disk (that why
you loose useable data on the disk) to find it way on the
disk.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=406282409-01082003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=406282409-01082003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>It like a citymap (simply stated) You have an index saying that
stree x is positioned in the square B7.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=406282409-01082003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Formatting removes the index (creates an empty one) and
puts a new grid (the quares A7) in pace.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=406282409-01082003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>But the data of the old streets are still
there.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=406282409-01082003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2> So it is just a question to put to put the pieces togheter
and build a new index (simply stated).</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=406282409-01082003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Custers that are overwritten by the format or by new data will
corruot the old file but the rest of the file is still
readable.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=406282409-01082003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=406282409-01082003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>There are companies that can rebuild your disk, within 30 minutes,
depending on the size and fragmentaion.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=406282409-01082003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=406282409-01082003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Only way to clrear a disk is to write random data on each cluster
thus distroying the old data.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=406282409-01082003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>there does exesits software to do that.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=406282409-01082003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=406282409-01082003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Erwin</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=406282409-01082003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=nl dir=ltr align=left><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2>-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----<BR><B>Van:</B>
Martin Reid [mailto:mwp.reid@qub.ac.uk] <BR><B>Verzonden:</B> vrijdag 1
augustus 2003 11:05<BR><B>Aan:</B> Discussion of Hardware and Software
issues<BR><B>Onderwerp:</B> Re: [dba-Tech] Retrieving Deleted Files off
a hard drive<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>AFAIK unless you overwrite the data several
time using specific software then its possible to get most things back.
One of our guys says the only way to be totally sure is to melt down the
HDD.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Martin</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=Jon.Tydda@alcontrol.co.uk
href="mailto:Jon.Tydda@alcontrol.co.uk">Jon Tydda</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=dba-tech@databaseadvisors.com
href="mailto:dba-tech@databaseadvisors.com">'Discussion of Hardware
and Software issues'</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, August 01, 2003
9:45 AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [dba-Tech]
Retrieving Deleted Files off a hard drive</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<P><FONT size=2>I formatted a hard disk with windows 95 on it, then
plugged it into a pc running 98. I ran scandisk and all the files came
back, so I guess format ain't everything.</FONT></P><BR>
<P><FONT size=2>Jon</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=2>-----Original Message-----</FONT> <BR><FONT
size=2>From: Stoker, Kenneth E [<A
href="mailto:Kenneth.Stoker@pnl.gov">mailto:Kenneth.Stoker@pnl.gov</A>]</FONT>
<BR><FONT size=2>Sent: 31 July 2003 20:50</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>To:
dba-Tech (E-mail)</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Subject: [dba-Tech]
Retrieving Deleted Files off a hard drive</FONT> </P><BR>
<P><FONT size=2>Everyone,</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=2>I recently had a discussion with a coworker about the
subject of retrieving deleted files off a hard drive. We got on
the subject because we are having an audit on those company-owned
computers systems that some staff may have at home for business
use. He claims that any file can be reclaimed, even if a
defragmentation has been run. I thought that once a disk has
been defragmented, those files were truly gone, if the anyone
defragmented the disk, the audit would basically be a waste of
time. Is this true? The computer security group here is,
I'm sure, quite good, don't let any limitations be considered in any
advise returned to settle this score. </FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=2>If it is possible, does that also apply to a
reformatted disk? I would think that a reformatted disk would be
the ultimate cleanup, but that would have me wondering now if a
defragment doesn't work. Which would cause some serious concerns
at this location as much of the stuff that I work with is very
sensitive and would make me wonder about correct processes when buying
a new machine and excessing the old one.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=2>Thanks for your help in settling the
discussion.</FONT> </P><BR>
<P><FONT size=2>Ken Stoker</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Technology
Commercialization</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Information Systems
Administrator</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>PH: (509) 375-3758</FONT>
<BR><FONT size=2>FAX: (509) 375-6731</FONT> <BR><FONT
size=2>E-mail: Kenneth.Stoker@pnl.gov </FONT></P><BR>
<P><FONT size=2>_______________________________________________</FONT>
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<P><B><FONT face=Arial size=2>The information in this e-mail is confidential
and may also be legally</FONT></B></P>
<P><B><FONT face=Arial size=2>privileged. The contents are intended for
recipient only and are subject</FONT></B></P>
<P><B><FONT face=Arial size=2>to the legal notice available on request from :
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<P><B><FONT face=Arial size=2>ALcontrol Laboratories is a trading division of
ALcontrol UK Limited.</FONT></B></P>
<P><B><FONT face=Arial size=2>Registered Office: Templeborough House, Mill
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