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<DIV><SPAN class=296550814-01082003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>As
does Norton Utilitie's "Wipe Info" program. I haven't been able to recover the
data, but then I'm not a specialist at it either :o)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=296550814-01082003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=296550814-01082003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Even
if Symantec or McAfee garaunteed that it would be unrecoverable I would question
it because they both have to deal with the US govt and I don't know their laws
pertaining to this. If they try to control it the wway they have been
attempting to control encryption then I think Martin's friend is correct
throwing it in a hot fire is the only "for sure" method".</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=296550814-01082003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=296550814-01082003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>I go
through this discussion every now and again with my accounting clients.
They ask me about "permanently" removing client info from the hard
drive of old PCs they are going to discard, I physically remove the
hard drive and damage it and then give it back to them. It builds their
confidence in my thoroughness (and gives them second thoughts about buying a
cheap solution in a box). I don't personally believe that there is no way to
destroy the magnetic signatures of files on a hard drive - I just don't know how
to do it or how to prove it can be done.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=296550814-01082003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>:o)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=296550814-01082003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=296550814-01082003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>I
guess the bottom line is that if a particular company wants dirt on someone the
employ they can find with less expensive methods than paying a data recovery
specialist - they're not cheap!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=296550814-01082003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=296550814-01082003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>JB</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=296550814-01082003></SPAN><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=296550814-01082003><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff> </FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=296550814-01082003> </SPAN>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
dba-tech-bounces@databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-tech-bounces@databaseadvisors.com]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Jon
Tydda<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, August 01, 2003 4:38 AM<BR><B>To:</B> 'Discussion
of Hardware and Software issues'<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [dba-Tech] Retrieving
Deleted Files off a hard drive<BR><BR></DIV></FONT></FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV><SPAN class=443503809-01082003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>McAfee Shredder does that - passes over the disk 7 times
writing junk and erasing it on each pass, making it unrecoverable (they
claim).</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=443503809-01082003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=443503809-01082003></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=443503809-01082003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Jon</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Erwin Craps
[mailto:Erwin.Craps@ithelps.be]<BR><B>Sent:</B> 01 August 2003
10:37<BR><B>To:</B> Discussion of Hardware and Software
issues<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [dba-Tech] Retrieving Deleted Files off a hard
drive<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=406282409-01082003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Formattting a drive will only remove the FAT (File Allocation Tabe),
that the index of where the files are positoned on the
drive.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=406282409-01082003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Formattig does alos put some positionmakers on the disk (that why you
loose useable data on the disk) to find it way on the
disk.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=406282409-01082003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=406282409-01082003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>It
like a citymap (simply stated) You have an index saying that stree x is
positioned in the square B7.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=406282409-01082003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Formatting removes the index (creates an empty one) and puts
a new grid (the quares A7) in pace.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=406282409-01082003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>But
the data of the old streets are still there.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=406282409-01082003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2> So it is just a question to put to put the pieces togheter and
build a new index (simply stated).</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=406282409-01082003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Custers that are overwritten by the format or by new data will
corruot the old file but the rest of the file is still
readable.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=406282409-01082003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=406282409-01082003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>There are companies that can rebuild your disk, within 30 minutes,
depending on the size and fragmentaion.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=406282409-01082003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=406282409-01082003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Only
way to clrear a disk is to write random data on each cluster thus distroying
the old data.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=406282409-01082003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>there does exesits software to do that.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=406282409-01082003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=406282409-01082003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Erwin</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=406282409-01082003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=nl dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----<BR><B>Van:</B> Martin Reid
[mailto:mwp.reid@qub.ac.uk] <BR><B>Verzonden:</B> vrijdag 1 augustus 2003
11:05<BR><B>Aan:</B> Discussion of Hardware and Software
issues<BR><B>Onderwerp:</B> Re: [dba-Tech] Retrieving Deleted Files off a
hard drive<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>AFAIK unless you overwrite the data several
time using specific software then its possible to get most things back. One
of our guys says the only way to be totally sure is to melt down the
HDD.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Martin</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=Jon.Tydda@alcontrol.co.uk
href="mailto:Jon.Tydda@alcontrol.co.uk">Jon Tydda</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=dba-tech@databaseadvisors.com
href="mailto:dba-tech@databaseadvisors.com">'Discussion of Hardware and
Software issues'</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, August 01, 2003 9:45
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [dba-Tech] Retrieving
Deleted Files off a hard drive</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<P><FONT size=2>I formatted a hard disk with windows 95 on it, then
plugged it into a pc running 98. I ran scandisk and all the files came
back, so I guess format ain't everything.</FONT></P><BR>
<P><FONT size=2>Jon</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=2>-----Original Message-----</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>From:
Stoker, Kenneth E [<A
href="mailto:Kenneth.Stoker@pnl.gov">mailto:Kenneth.Stoker@pnl.gov</A>]</FONT>
<BR><FONT size=2>Sent: 31 July 2003 20:50</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>To:
dba-Tech (E-mail)</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Subject: [dba-Tech] Retrieving
Deleted Files off a hard drive</FONT> </P><BR>
<P><FONT size=2>Everyone,</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=2>I recently had a discussion with a coworker about the
subject of retrieving deleted files off a hard drive. We got on the
subject because we are having an audit on those company-owned computers
systems that some staff may have at home for business use. He claims
that any file can be reclaimed, even if a defragmentation has been
run. I thought that once a disk has been defragmented, those files
were truly gone, if the anyone defragmented the disk, the audit would
basically be a waste of time. Is this true? The computer
security group here is, I'm sure, quite good, don't let any limitations be
considered in any advise returned to settle this score. </FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=2>If it is possible, does that also apply to a reformatted
disk? I would think that a reformatted disk would be the ultimate
cleanup, but that would have me wondering now if a defragment doesn't
work. Which would cause some serious concerns at this location as
much of the stuff that I work with is very sensitive and would make me
wonder about correct processes when buying a new machine and excessing the
old one.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=2>Thanks for your help in settling the discussion.</FONT>
</P><BR>
<P><FONT size=2>Ken Stoker</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Technology
Commercialization</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Information Systems
Administrator</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>PH: (509) 375-3758</FONT> <BR><FONT
size=2>FAX: (509) 375-6731</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>E-mail:
Kenneth.Stoker@pnl.gov </FONT></P><BR>
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