From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Oct 5 09:53:03 2007 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 07:53:03 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Has Data in .Net Message-ID: Here's a routine I came up with to quickly answer the question of whether any data exists in a record, outside of the key fields. We populate a field with a new record if there are none, but we want to throw it away if they don't enter any data. CurrentRow is a function that returns a datarowview of the current record in a single record form using the binding context. Private Function HasData() As Boolean ' Charlotte Foust 03-Oct-07 Dim blnData As Boolean = False Dim intKeys As Integer = 2 Try Dim flds() As Object = Me.CurrentRow.ItemArray ' skip the PK columns, which are filled by default For i As Integer = intKeys To flds.GetLength(0) - 1 If Not IsDBNull(flds(i)) Then blnData = True Exit For End If Next Catch ex As Exception UIExceptionHandler.ProcessException(ex) End Try Return blnData End Function This is in a subform module, but it could pretty easily be converted to a public function in a shared class. Charlotte Foust From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Oct 6 08:14:53 2007 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 09:14:53 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] [AccessD] Importing XML into a database In-Reply-To: <000401c807a0$d765e480$6401a8c0@nant> References: <000201c80789$8a873590$657aa8c0@M90> <000401c807a0$d765e480$6401a8c0@nant> Message-ID: <001701c8081a$e2872a20$657aa8c0@M90> Shamil, First of all, thanks for your assistance on this. I am so new to VB.Net that I would never get there on my own, but given example code I can usually adapt it to my needs. OK, here is the adaptation I am trying. The concept is that I create a class which knows how to serialize an object (class). The following function performs that process using XMLSerializer to serialize the current class onto a stream passed in. Public Function mSave(ByVal stream As Stream) As Boolean Dim serializer As New XmlSerializer(Me.GetType) Try serializer.Serialize(stream, Me) Return True Catch ex As Exception Return False End Try End Function Now, here is your code for using a memory stream as you called it. This mSave method uses a connection string and a table name parameter. You set up a memory stream and call the mSave method shown above to serialize the object into that stream. Next your create a data set which reads the xml data back out of the stream, which creates a table in the data set using the xml file element names as field names in the resulting table (very nice). Finally the "Using" block of code writes the data now in the data set out to a table in the database. I left in the two lines of code (commented out the original, then modified in a second copy) where I assume I need to substitute in my passed in table name for your hard coded table names. Public Function mSave(ByVal lcnn As String, ByVal strTblName As String) As Int16 Try ' serialize DataSet data into memory stream ' (use your custom object instance here) Dim myStream As System.IO.Stream = New IO.MemoryStream() mSave(myStream) ' read memory stream's data into dataset Dim ds As New DataSet() myStream.Position = 0 ds.ReadXml(myStream) ' write DataSet's data into database table Using cnn As New OleDbConnection(lcnn) 'Dim cmd As New OleDbCommand("select * from [LogData]") Dim cmd As New OleDbCommand("select * from [" & strTblName & "]") Dim adapter As New OleDbDataAdapter(cmd) Dim builder As New OleDbCommandBuilder(adapter) cnn.Open() cmd.CommandType = CommandType.Text cmd.Connection = cnn 'adapter.Update(ds, "clsLogData") adapter.Update(ds, strTblName ) cnn.Close() End Using Return 0 Catch ex As Exception Console.WriteLine(ex.Message) Return -1 End Try End Function So with these two methods, I build a clsSerializableData. This is inherited by any class that I want to be able to write (and read back in) its data. Assuming this works (I haven't yet tested it) I now can write any class' data to a file on disk (using a different existing mSave overload) or to table (using this new mSave overload). Is overload the right term here? Once I get this functioning I need to go back and generate the matching mLoad() method. I already have one to load the class from an xml disk file. Now I have to build one to load it from an existing table in the database. I will let you know how the testing goes. I am curious what the data types will be for this table. The data types of the class are known to the xmlSerializer but the data type does not show up in the XML file produced from the stream. Is it possible to tell the serializer to include data types in the xml file? Is this part of the XML standard? At any rate, again, thanks a million for your assistance on this Shamil. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 6:41 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing XML into a database Hello John, Yes, I think you can use MemoryStream - here is a sample code (watch line wraps): Imports System.Data Imports System.Data.OleDb Imports System.Xml.Serialization Module TestImportXmlFile Sub Main() Dim rootDir As String = "E:\Temp\XML\" Dim accDbFileName As String = "testXML.mdb" Try Dim accConnection As String = _ "Provider=Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0;Data Source=" + _ rootDir + accDbFileName ' simulate custom object instance by ' using DataSet instance, which data ' is loaded from external XMl file Dim xmlFileFullPath As String = rootDir + "clsLogData.xml" Dim textImportStream As System.IO.StreamReader = _ New IO.StreamReader(xmlFileFullPath) Dim dsObjectSimulator As New DataSet() dsObjectSimulator.ReadXml(textImportStream, _ XmlReadMode.InferSchema) ' serialize DataSet data into memory stream ' (use your custom object instance here) Dim myStream As System.IO.Stream = New IO.MemoryStream() mSave(myStream, dsObjectSimulator) ' read memory stream's data into dataset Dim ds As New DataSet() myStream.Position = 0 ds.ReadXml(myStream) ' write DataSet's data into database table Using cnn As New OleDbConnection(accConnection) Dim cmd As New OleDbCommand("select * from [LogData]") Dim adapter As New OleDbDataAdapter(cmd) Dim builder As New OleDbCommandBuilder(adapter) cnn.Open() cmd.CommandType = CommandType.Text cmd.Connection = cnn adapter.Update(ds, "clsLogData") cnn.Close() End Using Catch ex As Exception Console.WriteLine(ex.Message) End Try End Sub 'Public Function mSave(ByVal stream As IO.Stream, ByVal t As Type) As Boolean Public Function mSave(ByVal stream As IO.Stream, ByVal t As Object) As Boolean Dim serializer As New XmlSerializer(t.GetType()) Try serializer.Serialize(stream, t) Return True Catch ex As Exception Return False End Try End Function End Module -- Shamil From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Oct 8 07:07:44 2007 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 08:07:44 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - ADO - add table to SQL Server Message-ID: <002a01c809a3$d5f76a60$657aa8c0@M90> Does ADO have methods to cause a table built up the dataset to be saved to SQL Server if the table is not already in SQL Server? I am reading XML into a dataset, but the table created does not already exist in SQL Server. I need to cause the table to be written to a specified database in SQL Server. Is this possible? I have been googling around but am finding nothing like this. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com From bheid at sc.rr.com Mon Oct 8 21:16:41 2007 From: bheid at sc.rr.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 22:16:41 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - ADO - add table to SQL Server In-Reply-To: <002a01c809a3$d5f76a60$657aa8c0@M90> References: <002a01c809a3$d5f76a60$657aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: <008901c80a1a$6e744440$4b5cccc0$@rr.com> John, Yes it is easy. Look up "Create Table". Create Table ref: http://www.codeproject.com/useritems/adodotnetprogrammatically.asp Example: http://www.codeproject.com/useritems/adodotnetprogrammatically.asp Bobby -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 8:08 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - ADO - add table to SQL Server Does ADO have methods to cause a table built up the dataset to be saved to SQL Server if the table is not already in SQL Server? I am reading XML into a dataset, but the table created does not already exist in SQL Server. I need to cause the table to be written to a specified database in SQL Server. Is this possible? I have been googling around but am finding nothing like this. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Oct 9 07:15:07 2007 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 08:15:07 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects Message-ID: <002a01c80a6e$089964d0$657aa8c0@M90> I am developing modules that I need to use in various projects. This includes things like a status form with specific controls and code to display status updates from operations, and base classes for making another class serializable. Stuff like that. I need to know what the process is for making such objects accessible to other projects such that as I add capabilities and fix bugs, such enhancements are available to all the other projects that use these things. IOW, something similar to an MDA in Access. I know that it is possible, I just do not understand the mechanics of referencing the common objects. Could someone give me a detailed "step by step" of how to do it, what to click, select this menu item, click this etc. from inside of the referencing project. Or alternately a web article that discusses this stuff. TIA, John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Oct 9 07:35:12 2007 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 08:35:12 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects In-Reply-To: <002a01c80a6e$089964d0$657aa8c0@M90> References: <002a01c80a6e$089964d0$657aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: <002b01c80a70$d671b450$657aa8c0@M90> Guys, Once I discovered the correct keywords I started finding web articles on this stuff. Any words of wisdom you guys might have is still much appreciated. Thanks, John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 8:15 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects I am developing modules that I need to use in various projects. This includes things like a status form with specific controls and code to display status updates from operations, and base classes for making another class serializable. Stuff like that. I need to know what the process is for making such objects accessible to other projects such that as I add capabilities and fix bugs, such enhancements are available to all the other projects that use these things. IOW, something similar to an MDA in Access. I know that it is possible, I just do not understand the mechanics of referencing the common objects. Could someone give me a detailed "step by step" of how to do it, what to click, select this menu item, click this etc. from inside of the referencing project. Or alternately a web article that discusses this stuff. TIA, John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue Oct 9 07:38:50 2007 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2007 14:38:50 +0200 Subject: [dba-VB] Amazon Mechanical Turk SDK for .NET Message-ID: Hi all If you are experimenting with web services, Amazon is a good place to visit. Now an open-source SDK for .Net is available: http://developer.amazonwebservices.com/connect/entry.jspa?externalID=923 /gustav From mikedorism at verizon.net Tue Oct 9 09:51:25 2007 From: mikedorism at verizon.net (Doris Manning) Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2007 10:51:25 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects In-Reply-To: <002a01c80a6e$089964d0$657aa8c0@M90> References: <002a01c80a6e$089964d0$657aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: <000601c80a83$de71e9a0$2f01a8c0@Kermit> John, When you add an existing item to a project and press the OPEN button, you are actually importing the module from its existing location into the project location. If you click on the small black arrow on the far right of the OPEN button, you have a "Link file" choice. Choosing this option adds the module to your project but keeps it in its existing location. Any projects that link to it will instantly inherit the changes but will need to be rebuilt so the executable picks up the changes. Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 8:15 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects I am developing modules that I need to use in various projects. This includes things like a status form with specific controls and code to display status updates from operations, and base classes for making another class serializable. Stuff like that. I need to know what the process is for making such objects accessible to other projects such that as I add capabilities and fix bugs, such enhancements are available to all the other projects that use these things. IOW, something similar to an MDA in Access. I know that it is possible, I just do not understand the mechanics of referencing the common objects. Could someone give me a detailed "step by step" of how to do it, what to click, select this menu item, click this etc. from inside of the referencing project. Or alternately a web article that discusses this stuff. TIA, John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Oct 10 08:19:33 2007 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 09:19:33 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects In-Reply-To: <000601c80a83$de71e9a0$2f01a8c0@Kermit> References: <002a01c80a6e$089964d0$657aa8c0@M90> <000601c80a83$de71e9a0$2f01a8c0@Kermit> Message-ID: <009301c80b40$3321e150$657aa8c0@M90> Thanks Doris, I will give that a try. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doris Manning Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 10:51 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects John, When you add an existing item to a project and press the OPEN button, you are actually importing the module from its existing location into the project location. If you click on the small black arrow on the far right of the OPEN button, you have a "Link file" choice. Choosing this option adds the module to your project but keeps it in its existing location. Any projects that link to it will instantly inherit the changes but will need to be rebuilt so the executable picks up the changes. Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 8:15 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects I am developing modules that I need to use in various projects. This includes things like a status form with specific controls and code to display status updates from operations, and base classes for making another class serializable. Stuff like that. I need to know what the process is for making such objects accessible to other projects such that as I add capabilities and fix bugs, such enhancements are available to all the other projects that use these things. IOW, something similar to an MDA in Access. I know that it is possible, I just do not understand the mechanics of referencing the common objects. Could someone give me a detailed "step by step" of how to do it, what to click, select this menu item, click this etc. from inside of the referencing project. Or alternately a web article that discusses this stuff. TIA, John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ebarro at verizon.net Wed Oct 10 12:47:09 2007 From: ebarro at verizon.net (Eric Barro) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 10:47:09 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects In-Reply-To: <002b01c80a70$d671b450$657aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: <0JPP00I4NIQIMBZ0@vms044.mailsrvcs.net> John, You can create user-defined controls in .NET that you can load into your projects and even dock into your VS.NET toolbar along with the rest of the built-in controls so that all you have to do is add a reference to the DLL that defines the control and then drag and drop the control into your forms. Eric -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 5:35 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects Guys, Once I discovered the correct keywords I started finding web articles on this stuff. Any words of wisdom you guys might have is still much appreciated. Thanks, John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 8:15 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects I am developing modules that I need to use in various projects. This includes things like a status form with specific controls and code to display status updates from operations, and base classes for making another class serializable. Stuff like that. I need to know what the process is for making such objects accessible to other projects such that as I add capabilities and fix bugs, such enhancements are available to all the other projects that use these things. IOW, something similar to an MDA in Access. I know that it is possible, I just do not understand the mechanics of referencing the common objects. Could someone give me a detailed "step by step" of how to do it, what to click, select this menu item, click this etc. from inside of the referencing project. Or alternately a web article that discusses this stuff. TIA, John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.6/1061 - Release Date: 10/10/2007 8:43 AM From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Oct 11 07:38:45 2007 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 08:38:45 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects In-Reply-To: <000601c80a83$de71e9a0$2f01a8c0@Kermit> References: <002a01c80a6e$089964d0$657aa8c0@M90> <000601c80a83$de71e9a0$2f01a8c0@Kermit> Message-ID: <004701c80c03$aad54d40$657aa8c0@M90> Doris, OK, I finally figured out how to do what you are talking about. It is actually the "ADD" button which threw me for awhile, I kept going back and forth searching diligently for this "OPEN" button. Anyway, that is handled. So if I open a linked file, I am opening the actual source out in the lib and if I edit it, the changes are stored in that module in that lib? This works for me! John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doris Manning Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 10:51 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects John, When you add an existing item to a project and press the OPEN button, you are actually importing the module from its existing location into the project location. If you click on the small black arrow on the far right of the OPEN button, you have a "Link file" choice. Choosing this option adds the module to your project but keeps it in its existing location. Any projects that link to it will instantly inherit the changes but will need to be rebuilt so the executable picks up the changes. Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 8:15 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects I am developing modules that I need to use in various projects. This includes things like a status form with specific controls and code to display status updates from operations, and base classes for making another class serializable. Stuff like that. I need to know what the process is for making such objects accessible to other projects such that as I add capabilities and fix bugs, such enhancements are available to all the other projects that use these things. IOW, something similar to an MDA in Access. I know that it is possible, I just do not understand the mechanics of referencing the common objects. Could someone give me a detailed "step by step" of how to do it, what to click, select this menu item, click this etc. from inside of the referencing project. Or alternately a web article that discusses this stuff. TIA, John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Oct 11 09:57:56 2007 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 07:57:56 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects In-Reply-To: <004701c80c03$aad54d40$657aa8c0@M90> References: <002a01c80a6e$089964d0$657aa8c0@M90><000601c80a83$de71e9a0$2f01a8c0@Kermit> <004701c80c03$aad54d40$657aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: You're talking about two different things. Open is a menu item under the file menu. That's what Doris was referring to, I think. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 5:39 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects Doris, OK, I finally figured out how to do what you are talking about. It is actually the "ADD" button which threw me for awhile, I kept going back and forth searching diligently for this "OPEN" button. Anyway, that is handled. So if I open a linked file, I am opening the actual source out in the lib and if I edit it, the changes are stored in that module in that lib? This works for me! John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doris Manning Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 10:51 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects John, When you add an existing item to a project and press the OPEN button, you are actually importing the module from its existing location into the project location. If you click on the small black arrow on the far right of the OPEN button, you have a "Link file" choice. Choosing this option adds the module to your project but keeps it in its existing location. Any projects that link to it will instantly inherit the changes but will need to be rebuilt so the executable picks up the changes. Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 8:15 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects I am developing modules that I need to use in various projects. This includes things like a status form with specific controls and code to display status updates from operations, and base classes for making another class serializable. Stuff like that. I need to know what the process is for making such objects accessible to other projects such that as I add capabilities and fix bugs, such enhancements are available to all the other projects that use these things. IOW, something similar to an MDA in Access. I know that it is possible, I just do not understand the mechanics of referencing the common objects. Could someone give me a detailed "step by step" of how to do it, what to click, select this menu item, click this etc. from inside of the referencing project. Or alternately a web article that discusses this stuff. TIA, John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Oct 11 11:12:25 2007 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 12:12:25 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects In-Reply-To: References: <002a01c80a6e$089964d0$657aa8c0@M90><000601c80a83$de71e9a0$2f01a8c0@Kermit><004701c80c03$aad54d40$657aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: <005d01c80c21$83d2bf20$657aa8c0@M90> Hmmm... If you "add existing" a file Find dialog opens. At the bottom of THAT is an ADD button which has a little drop down to the right of it. If you drop that down a "LINK option". If you select "LINK" then it adds the module as a link instead of importing it directly into the project. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 10:58 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects You're talking about two different things. Open is a menu item under the file menu. That's what Doris was referring to, I think. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 5:39 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects Doris, OK, I finally figured out how to do what you are talking about. It is actually the "ADD" button which threw me for awhile, I kept going back and forth searching diligently for this "OPEN" button. Anyway, that is handled. So if I open a linked file, I am opening the actual source out in the lib and if I edit it, the changes are stored in that module in that lib? This works for me! John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doris Manning Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 10:51 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects John, When you add an existing item to a project and press the OPEN button, you are actually importing the module from its existing location into the project location. If you click on the small black arrow on the far right of the OPEN button, you have a "Link file" choice. Choosing this option adds the module to your project but keeps it in its existing location. Any projects that link to it will instantly inherit the changes but will need to be rebuilt so the executable picks up the changes. Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 8:15 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects I am developing modules that I need to use in various projects. This includes things like a status form with specific controls and code to display status updates from operations, and base classes for making another class serializable. Stuff like that. I need to know what the process is for making such objects accessible to other projects such that as I add capabilities and fix bugs, such enhancements are available to all the other projects that use these things. IOW, something similar to an MDA in Access. I know that it is possible, I just do not understand the mechanics of referencing the common objects. Could someone give me a detailed "step by step" of how to do it, what to click, select this menu item, click this etc. from inside of the referencing project. Or alternately a web article that discusses this stuff. TIA, John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Oct 11 11:15:40 2007 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 09:15:40 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects In-Reply-To: <005d01c80c21$83d2bf20$657aa8c0@M90> References: <002a01c80a6e$089964d0$657aa8c0@M90><000601c80a83$de71e9a0$2f01a8c0@Kermit><004701c80c03$aad54d40$657aa8c0@M90> <005d01c80c21$83d2bf20$657aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: But I thought you were trying to add your other project to a solution, not just a specific class. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 9:12 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects Hmmm... If you "add existing" a file Find dialog opens. At the bottom of THAT is an ADD button which has a little drop down to the right of it. If you drop that down a "LINK option". If you select "LINK" then it adds the module as a link instead of importing it directly into the project. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 10:58 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects You're talking about two different things. Open is a menu item under the file menu. That's what Doris was referring to, I think. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 5:39 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects Doris, OK, I finally figured out how to do what you are talking about. It is actually the "ADD" button which threw me for awhile, I kept going back and forth searching diligently for this "OPEN" button. Anyway, that is handled. So if I open a linked file, I am opening the actual source out in the lib and if I edit it, the changes are stored in that module in that lib? This works for me! John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doris Manning Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 10:51 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects John, When you add an existing item to a project and press the OPEN button, you are actually importing the module from its existing location into the project location. If you click on the small black arrow on the far right of the OPEN button, you have a "Link file" choice. Choosing this option adds the module to your project but keeps it in its existing location. Any projects that link to it will instantly inherit the changes but will need to be rebuilt so the executable picks up the changes. Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 8:15 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects I am developing modules that I need to use in various projects. This includes things like a status form with specific controls and code to display status updates from operations, and base classes for making another class serializable. Stuff like that. I need to know what the process is for making such objects accessible to other projects such that as I add capabilities and fix bugs, such enhancements are available to all the other projects that use these things. IOW, something similar to an MDA in Access. I know that it is possible, I just do not understand the mechanics of referencing the common objects. Could someone give me a detailed "step by step" of how to do it, what to click, select this menu item, click this etc. from inside of the referencing project. Or alternately a web article that discusses this stuff. TIA, John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Oct 11 11:48:04 2007 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 12:48:04 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects In-Reply-To: References: <002a01c80a6e$089964d0$657aa8c0@M90><000601c80a83$de71e9a0$2f01a8c0@Kermit><004701c80c03$aad54d40$657aa8c0@M90><005d01c80c21$83d2bf20$657aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: <005f01c80c26$7e58d2a0$657aa8c0@M90> Charlotte, This conversation is like trying to discuss a specific switch on the space shuttle. I don't know enough to know what I want to do. I have modules that I am developing or have found out there that I want to use in various projects. I do not want those modules embedded in each project precisely because of maintenance issues. In my terminology that is a library. ATM this is really a "library" of classes / modules that will be shared between projects. Understand that I do not truly understand "project" and "solution". A project is where poor people live and a solution is chemicals mixed in a liquid. Alternatively Project and Solution are terms used by much more advanced .Net programmers used to confuse beginners and establish respective positions in the programming hierarchy. Take it from there. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 12:16 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects But I thought you were trying to add your other project to a solution, not just a specific class. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 9:12 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects Hmmm... If you "add existing" a file Find dialog opens. At the bottom of THAT is an ADD button which has a little drop down to the right of it. If you drop that down a "LINK option". If you select "LINK" then it adds the module as a link instead of importing it directly into the project. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 10:58 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects You're talking about two different things. Open is a menu item under the file menu. That's what Doris was referring to, I think. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 5:39 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects Doris, OK, I finally figured out how to do what you are talking about. It is actually the "ADD" button which threw me for awhile, I kept going back and forth searching diligently for this "OPEN" button. Anyway, that is handled. So if I open a linked file, I am opening the actual source out in the lib and if I edit it, the changes are stored in that module in that lib? This works for me! John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doris Manning Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 10:51 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects John, When you add an existing item to a project and press the OPEN button, you are actually importing the module from its existing location into the project location. If you click on the small black arrow on the far right of the OPEN button, you have a "Link file" choice. Choosing this option adds the module to your project but keeps it in its existing location. Any projects that link to it will instantly inherit the changes but will need to be rebuilt so the executable picks up the changes. Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 8:15 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects I am developing modules that I need to use in various projects. This includes things like a status form with specific controls and code to display status updates from operations, and base classes for making another class serializable. Stuff like that. I need to know what the process is for making such objects accessible to other projects such that as I add capabilities and fix bugs, such enhancements are available to all the other projects that use these things. IOW, something similar to an MDA in Access. I know that it is possible, I just do not understand the mechanics of referencing the common objects. Could someone give me a detailed "step by step" of how to do it, what to click, select this menu item, click this etc. from inside of the referencing project. Or alternately a web article that discusses this stuff. TIA, John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Oct 11 11:56:27 2007 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 18:56:27 +0200 Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects Message-ID: Hi John et al To add to the confusing, I see no "Link" option anywhere; _if_ the Open button has an dropdown arrow juxtaposed, it offers "Open" or "Open with ..." only. /gustav >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 11-10-2007 18:48 >>> Charlotte, This conversation is like trying to discuss a specific switch on the space shuttle. I don't know enough to know what I want to do. I have modules that I am developing or have found out there that I want to use in various projects. I do not want those modules embedded in each project precisely because of maintenance issues. In my terminology that is a library. ATM this is really a "library" of classes / modules that will be shared between projects. Understand that I do not truly understand "project" and "solution". A project is where poor people live and a solution is chemicals mixed in a liquid. Alternatively Project and Solution are terms used by much more advanced .Net programmers used to confuse beginners and establish respective positions in the programming hierarchy. Take it from there. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 12:16 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects But I thought you were trying to add your other project to a solution, not just a specific class. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 9:12 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects Hmmm... If you "add existing" a file Find dialog opens. At the bottom of THAT is an ADD button which has a little drop down to the right of it. If you drop that down a "LINK option". If you select "LINK" then it adds the module as a link instead of importing it directly into the project. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 10:58 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects You're talking about two different things. Open is a menu item under the file menu. That's what Doris was referring to, I think. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 5:39 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects Doris, OK, I finally figured out how to do what you are talking about. It is actually the "ADD" button which threw me for awhile, I kept going back and forth searching diligently for this "OPEN" button. Anyway, that is handled. So if I open a linked file, I am opening the actual source out in the lib and if I edit it, the changes are stored in that module in that lib? This works for me! John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doris Manning Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 10:51 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects John, When you add an existing item to a project and press the OPEN button, you are actually importing the module from its existing location into the project location. If you click on the small black arrow on the far right of the OPEN button, you have a "Link file" choice. Choosing this option adds the module to your project but keeps it in its existing location. Any projects that link to it will instantly inherit the changes but will need to be rebuilt so the executable picks up the changes. Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 8:15 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects I am developing modules that I need to use in various projects. This includes things like a status form with specific controls and code to display status updates from operations, and base classes for making another class serializable. Stuff like that. I need to know what the process is for making such objects accessible to other projects such that as I add capabilities and fix bugs, such enhancements are available to all the other projects that use these things. IOW, something similar to an MDA in Access. I know that it is possible, I just do not understand the mechanics of referencing the common objects. Could someone give me a detailed "step by step" of how to do it, what to click, select this menu item, click this etc. from inside of the referencing project. Or alternately a web article that discusses this stuff. TIA, John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Oct 11 11:56:50 2007 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 09:56:50 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects In-Reply-To: <005f01c80c26$7e58d2a0$657aa8c0@M90> References: <002a01c80a6e$089964d0$657aa8c0@M90><000601c80a83$de71e9a0$2f01a8c0@Kermit><004701c80c03$aad54d40$657aa8c0@M90><005d01c80c21$83d2bf20$657aa8c0@M90> <005f01c80c26$7e58d2a0$657aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: LOL Think of a solution as an application superstructure that contains various projects. It can contain as many projects as you need, and those projects don't have to originate in the solution. One of the projects in the solution is the startup project, the rest are the bits that make it work. We insist that a project have a single focus, i.e., a configuration project, a data project, a UI project, a custom controls project, a reports project, etc., etc. All of those are variously imported into the individual classes in the solution as required. All our winforms and subforms (user controls) live in the UI project, while all our data entities, typed datasets, and defined interfaces live in the data project. Our custom controls project is shared among our applications. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 9:48 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects Charlotte, This conversation is like trying to discuss a specific switch on the space shuttle. I don't know enough to know what I want to do. I have modules that I am developing or have found out there that I want to use in various projects. I do not want those modules embedded in each project precisely because of maintenance issues. In my terminology that is a library. ATM this is really a "library" of classes / modules that will be shared between projects. Understand that I do not truly understand "project" and "solution". A project is where poor people live and a solution is chemicals mixed in a liquid. Alternatively Project and Solution are terms used by much more advanced .Net programmers used to confuse beginners and establish respective positions in the programming hierarchy. Take it from there. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 12:16 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects But I thought you were trying to add your other project to a solution, not just a specific class. Charlotte Foust From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Oct 11 12:11:35 2007 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 10:11:35 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: When you add Existing Item, the add dialog has and Add and a Cancel button. once you select a file, the Add button shows a dropdown arrow that allows you to add the class as a link. But that is a way to add individual classes. If you wanted a whole library of objects, it would make more sense to add a project. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 9:56 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects Hi John et al To add to the confusing, I see no "Link" option anywhere; _if_ the Open button has an dropdown arrow juxtaposed, it offers "Open" or "Open with ..." only. /gustav >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 11-10-2007 18:48 >>> Charlotte, This conversation is like trying to discuss a specific switch on the space shuttle. I don't know enough to know what I want to do. I have modules that I am developing or have found out there that I want to use in various projects. I do not want those modules embedded in each project precisely because of maintenance issues. In my terminology that is a library. ATM this is really a "library" of classes / modules that will be shared between projects. Understand that I do not truly understand "project" and "solution". A project is where poor people live and a solution is chemicals mixed in a liquid. Alternatively Project and Solution are terms used by much more advanced .Net programmers used to confuse beginners and establish respective positions in the programming hierarchy. Take it from there. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 12:16 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects But I thought you were trying to add your other project to a solution, not just a specific class. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 9:12 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects Hmmm... If you "add existing" a file Find dialog opens. At the bottom of THAT is an ADD button which has a little drop down to the right of it. If you drop that down a "LINK option". If you select "LINK" then it adds the module as a link instead of importing it directly into the project. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 10:58 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects You're talking about two different things. Open is a menu item under the file menu. That's what Doris was referring to, I think. Charlotte Foust From ssharkins at gmail.com Fri Oct 12 09:24:31 2007 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 10:24:31 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Hello Message-ID: <00e201c80cdb$9fc66690$4b3a8343@SusanOne> Well, I'm here. My first question regards VB Express and VB.Net -- are they the same thing? I already have VB Express. IN the book I wrote on SQL Server Express, I included a chapter on using VB Express with SS Express. So, I'm not a total novice, but I don't actually use it for anything -- just to write that chapter. From the AccessD conversation, I gather I can use VB Express with Access too? Susan H. From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Oct 19 05:16:44 2007 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 12:16:44 +0200 Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects Message-ID: Hi Charlotte (when you return) et al I was derailed; I looked at the main menu File, Add. Where the link option exists, however, is in the Solution Explorer panel - if you right-click at the top level item. In the popup menu choose Add, Existing Item ... Now the Add Existing Item dialogue opens and, when a file is selected, the Add button features a dropdown arrow. Clicking this reveals the options Add Add As Link /gustav >>> cfoust at infostatsystems.com 11-10-2007 19:11 >>> When you add Existing Item, the add dialog has and Add and a Cancel button. once you select a file, the Add button shows a dropdown arrow that allows you to add the class as a link. But that is a way to add individual classes. If you wanted a whole library of objects, it would make more sense to add a project. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 9:56 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects Hi John et al To add to the confusing, I see no "Link" option anywhere; _if_ the Open button has an dropdown arrow juxtaposed, it offers "Open" or "Open with ..." only. /gustav >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 11-10-2007 18:48 >>> Charlotte, This conversation is like trying to discuss a specific switch on the space shuttle. I don't know enough to know what I want to do. I have modules that I am developing or have found out there that I want to use in various projects. I do not want those modules embedded in each project precisely because of maintenance issues. In my terminology that is a library. ATM this is really a "library" of classes / modules that will be shared between projects. Understand that I do not truly understand "project" and "solution". A project is where poor people live and a solution is chemicals mixed in a liquid. Alternatively Project and Solution are terms used by much more advanced .Net programmers used to confuse beginners and establish respective positions in the programming hierarchy. Take it from there. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 12:16 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects But I thought you were trying to add your other project to a solution, not just a specific class. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 9:12 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects Hmmm... If you "add existing" a file Find dialog opens. At the bottom of THAT is an ADD button which has a little drop down to the right of it. If you drop that down a "LINK option". If you select "LINK" then it adds the module as a link instead of importing it directly into the project. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 10:58 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects You're talking about two different things. Open is a menu item under the file menu. That's what Doris was referring to, I think. Charlotte Foust From carbonnb at gmail.com Sat Oct 20 10:27:11 2007 From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 11:27:11 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Message-ID: Hi there folks, Based on some comments over on AccessD we are looking at renaming the DBA-VB list. We don't want to exclude any programming language be it VB6, VB.Net, C#, J# or the next greating thing MS brings out. So we were considering renaming it to something like DBA-Coding or DBA-Programming Does anyone have any other suggestions or comments about the proposal? John Bartow - President, Database Advisors, Inc. Bryan Carbonnell - Listmaster, Database Advisors, Inc. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Oct 20 13:59:21 2007 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 11:59:21 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Bryan: With the exception of VB6 there is no coding that will be of .Net origin so why not just move on and just call the list DBA.Net. When the decision is finally made send me the confirmation and so it will be appropriately posted on our web site. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2007 8:27 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Hi there folks, Based on some comments over on AccessD we are looking at renaming the DBA-VB list. We don't want to exclude any programming language be it VB6, VB.Net, C#, J# or the next greating thing MS brings out. So we were considering renaming it to something like DBA-Coding or DBA-Programming Does anyone have any other suggestions or comments about the proposal? John Bartow - President, Database Advisors, Inc. Bryan Carbonnell - Listmaster, Database Advisors, Inc. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Oct 20 15:35:53 2007 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 13:35:53 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Meant to say: With the exception of VB6 there is no coding that will not be of .Net origin... Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2007 11:59 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Hi Bryan: With the exception of VB6 there is no coding that will be of .Net origin so why not just move on and just call the list DBA.Net. When the decision is finally made send me the confirmation and so it will be appropriately posted on our web site. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2007 8:27 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Hi there folks, Based on some comments over on AccessD we are looking at renaming the DBA-VB list. We don't want to exclude any programming language be it VB6, VB.Net, C#, J# or the next greating thing MS brings out. So we were considering renaming it to something like DBA-Coding or DBA-Programming Does anyone have any other suggestions or comments about the proposal? John Bartow - President, Database Advisors, Inc. Bryan Carbonnell - Listmaster, Database Advisors, Inc. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Sat Oct 20 17:23:16 2007 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 17:23:16 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'd say it's a good idea. Already saw Jim's post, and would have to disagree. There is a lot of 'coding' that doesn't necessarily fall under AccessD. VBScript, ASP, etc. I know several other languages, though, ironically, I only dabble in .Net, still prefer VB 6. I am not going to be on a dozen lists, but I wouldn't mind changing this list to accommodate all programming languages. Drew -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2007 10:27 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Hi there folks, Based on some comments over on AccessD we are looking at renaming the DBA-VB list. We don't want to exclude any programming language be it VB6, VB.Net, C#, J# or the next greating thing MS brings out. So we were considering renaming it to something like DBA-Coding or DBA-Programming Does anyone have any other suggestions or comments about the proposal? John Bartow - President, Database Advisors, Inc. Bryan Carbonnell - Listmaster, Database Advisors, Inc. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI BusinessSensitve material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From robert at webedb.com Mon Oct 22 15:31:10 2007 From: robert at webedb.com (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 15:31:10 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200710222034.l9MKYsrO000925@databaseadvisors.com> DBS-DotNetLanguages At 12:00 PM 10/20/2007, you wrote: >Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 11:27:11 -0400 >From: "Bryan Carbonnell" >Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB >To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com >Message-ID: > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > >Hi there folks, > >Based on some comments over on AccessD we are looking at renaming the >DBA-VB list. We don't want to exclude any programming language be it >VB6, VB.Net, C#, J# or the next greating thing MS brings out. > >So we were considering renaming it to something like DBA-Coding or >DBA-Programming > >Does anyone have any other suggestions or comments about the proposal? > >John Bartow - President, Database Advisors, Inc. >Bryan Carbonnell - Listmaster, Database Advisors, Inc. > >-- >Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com >Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well >preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, >shouting "What a great ride!" > > >------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >dba-VB mailing list >dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > >End of dba-VB Digest, Vol 48, Issue 10 >************************************** From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Mon Oct 22 17:20:48 2007 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Michael R Mattys) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 18:20:48 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB References: <200710222034.l9MKYsrO000925@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <00dd01c814f9$cd3146b0$0202a8c0@Laptop> I'm not interested in .Net anything, right now. I guess you're saying that both PHP and Ruby on Rails are irrelevant when it comes to Access? Michael R. Mattys MapPoint & Access Dev www.mattysconsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Oct 22 17:29:30 2007 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 18:29:30 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: <00dd01c814f9$cd3146b0$0202a8c0@Laptop> References: <200710222034.l9MKYsrO000925@databaseadvisors.com> <00dd01c814f9$cd3146b0$0202a8c0@Laptop> Message-ID: <001701c814fb$043777f0$647aa8c0@M90> This really isn't about the Access list. That will remain named as it is I presume. The discussion is about renaming the VB list to embrace a wider audience. It is my opinion that we should not cast too wide a net or we will end up attracting people for every platform under the sun and they will soon leave because there is no support available for their respective platform. I thought we should simply widen the target to include the .Net platform, specifically VB.Net. The list is currently VB oriented, and widening the scope to include VB.Net (which is a large percentage of the current traffic) would be entirely appropriate. Just my opinion. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael R Mattys Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 6:21 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I'm not interested in .Net anything, right now. I guess you're saying that both PHP and Ruby on Rails are irrelevant when it comes to Access? Michael R. Mattys MapPoint & Access Dev www.mattysconsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Oct 22 17:46:19 2007 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 15:46:19 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: <00dd01c814f9$cd3146b0$0202a8c0@Laptop> Message-ID: Those two development environments would hardly be irrelevant but there are dozens of great development environments... so where do you draw the line? For the most part we are a MS shop but with a keen eye on superior products. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael R Mattys Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 3:21 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I'm not interested in .Net anything, right now. I guess you're saying that both PHP and Ruby on Rails are irrelevant when it comes to Access? Michael R. Mattys MapPoint & Access Dev www.mattysconsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Mon Oct 22 18:49:19 2007 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Michael R Mattys) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 19:49:19 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB References: <200710222034.l9MKYsrO000925@databaseadvisors.com> <00dd01c814f9$cd3146b0$0202a8c0@Laptop> <001701c814fb$043777f0$647aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: <012401c81506$2affe6a0$0202a8c0@Laptop> We're going to need a stoplight for all this traffic. DBA.Code.Misc Michael R. Mattys MapPoint & Access Dev www.mattysconsulting.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "jwcolby" To: Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 6:29 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > This really isn't about the Access list. That will remain named as it is > I > presume. The discussion is about renaming the VB list to embrace a wider > audience. > > It is my opinion that we should not cast too wide a net or we will end up > attracting people for every platform under the sun and they will soon > leave > because there is no support available for their respective platform. > > I thought we should simply widen the target to include the .Net platform, > specifically VB.Net. The list is currently VB oriented, and widening the > scope to include VB.Net (which is a large percentage of the current > traffic) > would be entirely appropriate. > > Just my opinion. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael R Mattys > Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 6:21 PM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > I'm not interested in .Net anything, right now. > > I guess you're saying that both PHP and Ruby on Rails are irrelevant when > it > comes to Access? > > Michael R. Mattys > MapPoint & Access Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Oct 22 19:33:31 2007 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 20:33:31 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: References: <00dd01c814f9$cd3146b0$0202a8c0@Laptop> Message-ID: <001e01c8150c$5bb5efa0$647aa8c0@M90> LOL. If we had a keen eye on superior products we wouldn't be an MS shop. 8-O John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 6:46 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Those two development environments would hardly be irrelevant but there are dozens of great development environments... so where do you draw the line? For the most part we are a MS shop but with a keen eye on superior products. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael R Mattys Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 3:21 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I'm not interested in .Net anything, right now. I guess you're saying that both PHP and Ruby on Rails are irrelevant when it comes to Access? Michael R. Mattys MapPoint & Access Dev www.mattysconsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Oct 22 19:34:55 2007 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 20:34:55 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: <012401c81506$2affe6a0$0202a8c0@Laptop> References: <200710222034.l9MKYsrO000925@databaseadvisors.com><00dd01c814f9$cd3146b0$0202a8c0@Laptop><001701c814fb$043777f0$647aa8c0@M90> <012401c81506$2affe6a0$0202a8c0@Laptop> Message-ID: <001f01c8150c$8c345590$647aa8c0@M90> LOL. Come one, come all. Now one here uses that but now that you are here we have at least one. ;-) John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael R Mattys Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 7:49 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB We're going to need a stoplight for all this traffic. DBA.Code.Misc Michael R. Mattys MapPoint & Access Dev www.mattysconsulting.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "jwcolby" To: Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 6:29 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > This really isn't about the Access list. That will remain named as it is > I > presume. The discussion is about renaming the VB list to embrace a wider > audience. > > It is my opinion that we should not cast too wide a net or we will end up > attracting people for every platform under the sun and they will soon > leave > because there is no support available for their respective platform. > > I thought we should simply widen the target to include the .Net platform, > specifically VB.Net. The list is currently VB oriented, and widening the > scope to include VB.Net (which is a large percentage of the current > traffic) > would be entirely appropriate. > > Just my opinion. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael R Mattys > Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 6:21 PM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > I'm not interested in .Net anything, right now. > > I guess you're saying that both PHP and Ruby on Rails are irrelevant when > it > comes to Access? > > Michael R. Mattys > MapPoint & Access Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Oct 22 21:12:45 2007 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 19:12:45 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: <001e01c8150c$5bb5efa0$647aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: Officially, I have deniability... I did not say that. :-) Anyway .Net products run on Linux and Macs. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 5:34 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB LOL. If we had a keen eye on superior products we wouldn't be an MS shop. 8-O John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 6:46 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Those two development environments would hardly be irrelevant but there are dozens of great development environments... so where do you draw the line? For the most part we are a MS shop but with a keen eye on superior products. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael R Mattys Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 3:21 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I'm not interested in .Net anything, right now. I guess you're saying that both PHP and Ruby on Rails are irrelevant when it comes to Access? Michael R. Mattys MapPoint & Access Dev www.mattysconsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Oct 22 21:16:02 2007 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 19:16:02 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: <001f01c8150c$8c345590$647aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: <7A56D266028C4A9BBF4F46ED1507D274@creativesystemdesigns.com> There was a computer club that was started in around 1982 in Victoria that called itself 'Big Blue'. When a host of other copies started hitting the market the name was changed to 'Big Blue and cousins'. Maybe we could call the new site 'DBA.Net and cousins'? Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 5:35 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB LOL. Come one, come all. Now one here uses that but now that you are here we have at least one. ;-) John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael R Mattys Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 7:49 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB We're going to need a stoplight for all this traffic. DBA.Code.Misc Michael R. Mattys MapPoint & Access Dev www.mattysconsulting.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "jwcolby" To: Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 6:29 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > This really isn't about the Access list. That will remain named as it is > I > presume. The discussion is about renaming the VB list to embrace a wider > audience. > > It is my opinion that we should not cast too wide a net or we will end up > attracting people for every platform under the sun and they will soon > leave > because there is no support available for their respective platform. > > I thought we should simply widen the target to include the .Net platform, > specifically VB.Net. The list is currently VB oriented, and widening the > scope to include VB.Net (which is a large percentage of the current > traffic) > would be entirely appropriate. > > Just my opinion. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael R Mattys > Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 6:21 PM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > I'm not interested in .Net anything, right now. > > I guess you're saying that both PHP and Ruby on Rails are irrelevant when > it > comes to Access? > > Michael R. Mattys > MapPoint & Access Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From pharold at proftesting.com Tue Oct 23 00:14:31 2007 From: pharold at proftesting.com (Perry L Harold) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 01:14:31 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB References: Message-ID: DBA-Programming sounds reasonable and broad enough. Perry Harold Professional Testing Inc 407-264-2993 pharold at proftesting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2007 11:27 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Hi there folks, Based on some comments over on AccessD we are looking at renaming the DBA-VB list. We don't want to exclude any programming language be it VB6, VB.Net, C#, J# or the next greating thing MS brings out. So we were considering renaming it to something like DBA-Coding or DBA-Programming Does anyone have any other suggestions or comments about the proposal? John Bartow - President, Database Advisors, Inc. Bryan Carbonnell - Listmaster, Database Advisors, Inc. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue Oct 23 02:27:29 2007 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 09:27:29 +0200 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Message-ID: Hi John et al That covers pretty much my opinion. However, the new name isn't important too me, I just found VB(6) too restricted. I don't think anyone would be offended by a post on Java, Python or any other language, even VBScript - in fact I would welcome it - it's just that the audience with a relevant knowledge is quite limited so response would probably be low. But could we develop an audience for, say, Ruby On Rails it would be great. Even though we here at Cactus Data have decided for Visual Studio and C#, I would at least browse such postings because of the relevance to databases and because you can always learn something. In fact, one of the strengths of our lists is the members' broad background often supported by solid experience from real life, and we should encourage any step to maintain this. /gustav >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 23-10-2007 00:29 >>> This really isn't about the Access list. That will remain named as it is I presume. The discussion is about renaming the VB list to embrace a wider audience. It is my opinion that we should not cast too wide a net or we will end up attracting people for every platform under the sun and they will soon leave because there is no support available for their respective platform. I thought we should simply widen the target to include the .Net platform, specifically VB.Net. The list is currently VB oriented, and widening the scope to include VB.Net (which is a large percentage of the current traffic) would be entirely appropriate. Just my opinion. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael R Mattys Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 6:21 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I'm not interested in .Net anything, right now. I guess you're saying that both PHP and Ruby on Rails are irrelevant when it comes to Access? Michael R. Mattys MapPoint & Access Dev www.mattysconsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Oct 23 07:21:07 2007 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 08:21:07 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <003601c8156f$3108e9c0$647aa8c0@M90> Gustav, One of our list members mentioned that he didn't hang out on our vb list because it never gained critical mass and therefore the membership was low and the responses to questions low or nonexistent. I think this is a real concern. AccessD is specialized in Access, everyone there knows and "loves" Access and come there to get assistance or share their knowledge about Access. Now we create a list about "programming". That is fine except now someone come to the list and post a question about Ruby On Rails and get no answers because while everyone there is interested in following such threads, no one actually uses it. The thread never starts, and the poster goes away and finds a Ruby On Rails list so that he can get his questions answered. Make an assumption that somehow we achieve critical mass and we have 40 questions a day posted in each of Ruby, Java, Python, VBScript, VB6, VB.Net, C#, J#, F#, c#, D#, E# Z# and A flat Minor. I am on the list to learn about VB (the original focus) or in my case VB.Net, and I am getting flooded with emails about subjects which (not being a musician) I am not interested in nor do I have the expertise to appreciate. Neither scenario works. We keep AccessD focused on Access for a reason, so that it can be home to people interested in the subject. Having said that, we can certainly host a list on "Programming", in which discussions about programming concepts and even specific problems in whatever language are encouraged. But I for one would not vote to make the VB list that list. I use VB.Net a lot these days and I would like a list focused on the dot net technology, while holding on to our VB brethren who have not yet moved up. I vote to make the VB List a VB list which adds VB.Net and even other VB variations if desired, but still focused on VB. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 3:27 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Hi John et al That covers pretty much my opinion. However, the new name isn't important too me, I just found VB(6) too restricted. I don't think anyone would be offended by a post on Java, Python or any other language, even VBScript - in fact I would welcome it - it's just that the audience with a relevant knowledge is quite limited so response would probably be low. But could we develop an audience for, say, Ruby On Rails it would be great. Even though we here at Cactus Data have decided for Visual Studio and C#, I would at least browse such postings because of the relevance to databases and because you can always learn something. In fact, one of the strengths of our lists is the members' broad background often supported by solid experience from real life, and we should encourage any step to maintain this. /gustav >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 23-10-2007 00:29 >>> This really isn't about the Access list. That will remain named as it is I presume. The discussion is about renaming the VB list to embrace a wider audience. It is my opinion that we should not cast too wide a net or we will end up attracting people for every platform under the sun and they will soon leave because there is no support available for their respective platform. I thought we should simply widen the target to include the .Net platform, specifically VB.Net. The list is currently VB oriented, and widening the scope to include VB.Net (which is a large percentage of the current traffic) would be entirely appropriate. Just my opinion. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael R Mattys Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 6:21 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I'm not interested in .Net anything, right now. I guess you're saying that both PHP and Ruby on Rails are irrelevant when it comes to Access? Michael R. Mattys MapPoint & Access Dev www.mattysconsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Tue Oct 23 08:12:02 2007 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Michael R Mattys) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 09:12:02 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB References: <003601c8156f$3108e9c0$647aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: <005201c81576$4fc369b0$0202a8c0@Laptop> Well said, John. I concede to VS8. Yet, the boulder doesn't seem to be moving in any direction. Michael R. Mattys MapPoint & Access Dev www.mattysconsulting.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "jwcolby" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 8:21 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > Gustav, > > One of our list members mentioned that he didn't hang out on our vb list > because it never gained critical mass and therefore the membership was low > and the responses to questions low or nonexistent. I think this is a real > concern. AccessD is specialized in Access, everyone there knows and > "loves" > Access and come there to get assistance or share their knowledge about > Access. > > Now we create a list about "programming". That is fine except now someone > come to the list and post a question about Ruby On Rails and get no > answers > because while everyone there is interested in following such threads, no > one > actually uses it. The thread never starts, and the poster goes away and > finds a Ruby On Rails list so that he can get his questions answered. > > Make an assumption that somehow we achieve critical mass and we have 40 > questions a day posted in each of Ruby, Java, Python, VBScript, VB6, > VB.Net, > C#, J#, F#, c#, D#, E# Z# and A flat Minor. I am on the list to learn > about > VB (the original focus) or in my case VB.Net, and I am getting flooded > with > emails about subjects which (not being a musician) I am not interested in > nor do I have the expertise to appreciate. > > Neither scenario works. We keep AccessD focused on Access for a reason, > so > that it can be home to people interested in the subject. > > Having said that, we can certainly host a list on "Programming", in which > discussions about programming concepts and even specific problems in > whatever language are encouraged. But I for one would not vote to make > the > VB list that list. > > I use VB.Net a lot these days and I would like a list focused on the dot > net > technology, while holding on to our VB brethren who have not yet moved up. > I vote to make the VB List a VB list which adds VB.Net and even other VB > variations if desired, but still focused on VB. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > www.ColbyConsulting.com snip > In fact, one of the strengths of our lists is the members' broad > background > often supported by solid experience from real life, and we should > encourage > any step to maintain this. > > /gustav snip > I thought we should simply widen the target to include the .Net platform, > specifically VB.Net. The list is currently VB oriented, and widening the > scope to include VB.Net (which is a large percentage of the current > traffic) > would be entirely appropriate. > > Just my opinion. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > www.ColbyConsulting.com snip > I'm not interested in .Net anything, right now. > Michael R. Mattys > MapPoint & Access Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Tue Oct 23 10:39:08 2007 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 11:39:08 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB References: Message-ID: <004801c8158a$dac17200$6b706c4c@JISREGISTRATION.local> ...what many here apparently don't yet understand Gustav, is just how easy and rewarding the transition from vb.net (even vba) to c# really is in the dot.net environment ...I was a long time vba developer who got pushed into asp.net work by a client and automatically defaulted to using vb.net ...but so many of the samples and tutorials were posted in both vb.net and C# that it became quickly evident that it was mostly just syntax differences ...and minor ones at that ...and more and more of the samples/tutorials I was really interested in were available only in c# because vb.net simply could not do it as well if at all. ...my vote goes to dba.net on the simple basis that most questions posed in either .net language can be readily addressed by any one experienced in either ...besides which the free translators available have become quite adept at going to from either language. ...imnsho, dba.programming will suffer the same fate as dba.vb has but for exactly the opposite reason. ...my 2 cents, worth exactly what it cost you. William ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 3:27 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > Hi John et al > > That covers pretty much my opinion. > However, the new name isn't important too me, I just found VB(6) too > restricted. I don't think anyone would be offended by a post on Java, > Python or any other language, even VBScript - in fact I would welcome it - > it's just that the audience with a relevant knowledge is quite limited so > response would probably be low. But could we develop an audience for, say, > Ruby On Rails it would be great. Even though we here at Cactus Data have > decided for Visual Studio and C#, I would at least browse such postings > because of the relevance to databases and because you can always learn > something. > > In fact, one of the strengths of our lists is the members' broad > background often supported by solid experience from real life, and we > should encourage any step to maintain this. > > /gustav > >>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 23-10-2007 00:29 >>> > This really isn't about the Access list. That will remain named as it is > I > presume. The discussion is about renaming the VB list to embrace a wider > audience. > > It is my opinion that we should not cast too wide a net or we will end up > attracting people for every platform under the sun and they will soon > leave > because there is no support available for their respective platform. > > I thought we should simply widen the target to include the .Net platform, > specifically VB.Net. The list is currently VB oriented, and widening the > scope to include VB.Net (which is a large percentage of the current > traffic) > would be entirely appropriate. > > Just my opinion. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael R Mattys > Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 6:21 PM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > I'm not interested in .Net anything, right now. > > I guess you're saying that both PHP and Ruby on Rails are irrelevant when > it > comes to Access? > > Michael R. Mattys > MapPoint & Access Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Oct 23 11:47:26 2007 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 12:47:26 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] C# vs VB - was RE: Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: <004801c8158a$dac17200$6b706c4c@JISREGISTRATION.local> References: <004801c8158a$dac17200$6b706c4c@JISREGISTRATION.local> Message-ID: <004701c81594$76b6be50$647aa8c0@M90> William, I programmed for a couple of years completely and only in C for a uController project back in 96/97. I went there from Access 2.0 and returned to Access 97 (VBA). I know that the syntax for C# is quite close to VB.Net in a lot of ways and I also know that there are gotchas that have to be understood, remembered and handled. I think that going from VB.Net to C#.Net is a LOT easier than going from VBA to C#.Net for the simple reason that if you are fluent in VB.Net then you are no longer banging your head over the IDE, the plethora of .Net classes, the intricacies of inheritance, partial classes and so forth and so on. That is all handled and understood and NOW you can concentrate on syntax differences. I have been a programmer full time since 1996, with long stints in variances of basic as well as Pascal and "short" stints in C and I just found it irritating moving directly from VBA to C#. I made an educated decision to postpone the move to C# until I was up to speed on VB.Net. I have done translations of code segments between C# back to VB.Net and I can tell you that sometimes it is easy, sometimes it is not. There are things possible in C# that simply are not possible in VB.Net and, believe it or not, Vice Versa. Some of those differences are quite deep conceptually and can throw a major wrench in any conversion. I have not tried it lately, but I know that My. syntax (My.Computer) exists in VB but not in C#, at least in the past. Thus taking any code with My. constructs and porting them to C# requires quite in-depth knowledge of what the equivalent is. The My. construct is just a wrapper, but a wrapper of WHAT. That is just one quick example. So yes, in GENERAL the programming constructs all pretty much match one for one, { = Begin, } = End, For exists in both etc. Once you get past the basics however there are things which are not so quickly and easily translated. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 11:39 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB ...what many here apparently don't yet understand Gustav, is just how easy and rewarding the transition from vb.net (even vba) to c# really is in the dot.net environment ...I was a long time vba developer who got pushed into asp.net work by a client and automatically defaulted to using vb.net ...but so many of the samples and tutorials were posted in both vb.net and C# that it became quickly evident that it was mostly just syntax differences ...and minor ones at that ...and more and more of the samples/tutorials I was really interested in were available only in c# because vb.net simply could not do it as well if at all. ...my vote goes to dba.net on the simple basis that most questions posed in either .net language can be readily addressed by any one experienced in either ...besides which the free translators available have become quite adept at going to from either language. ...imnsho, dba.programming will suffer the same fate as dba.vb has but for exactly the opposite reason. ...my 2 cents, worth exactly what it cost you. William From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Oct 23 12:02:44 2007 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 10:02:44 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] C# vs VB - was RE: Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: <004701c81594$76b6be50$647aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: As far as I understand there are 2 possible reasons for going to C# if you are competent in VB.Net. 1. The one key point for going to C# as apposed to Vb.Net would be for performance. That is not the case as they both perform equally so what is the advantage. 2. The other point is that once an application is started in C# it has to be completed in C#. This is also not the case as .Net derivatives can be mixed and compiled. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 9:47 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] C# vs VB - was RE: Renaming DBA-VB William, I programmed for a couple of years completely and only in C for a uController project back in 96/97. I went there from Access 2.0 and returned to Access 97 (VBA). I know that the syntax for C# is quite close to VB.Net in a lot of ways and I also know that there are gotchas that have to be understood, remembered and handled. I think that going from VB.Net to C#.Net is a LOT easier than going from VBA to C#.Net for the simple reason that if you are fluent in VB.Net then you are no longer banging your head over the IDE, the plethora of .Net classes, the intricacies of inheritance, partial classes and so forth and so on. That is all handled and understood and NOW you can concentrate on syntax differences. I have been a programmer full time since 1996, with long stints in variances of basic as well as Pascal and "short" stints in C and I just found it irritating moving directly from VBA to C#. I made an educated decision to postpone the move to C# until I was up to speed on VB.Net. I have done translations of code segments between C# back to VB.Net and I can tell you that sometimes it is easy, sometimes it is not. There are things possible in C# that simply are not possible in VB.Net and, believe it or not, Vice Versa. Some of those differences are quite deep conceptually and can throw a major wrench in any conversion. I have not tried it lately, but I know that My. syntax (My.Computer) exists in VB but not in C#, at least in the past. Thus taking any code with My. constructs and porting them to C# requires quite in-depth knowledge of what the equivalent is. The My. construct is just a wrapper, but a wrapper of WHAT. That is just one quick example. So yes, in GENERAL the programming constructs all pretty much match one for one, { = Begin, } = End, For exists in both etc. Once you get past the basics however there are things which are not so quickly and easily translated. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 11:39 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB ...what many here apparently don't yet understand Gustav, is just how easy and rewarding the transition from vb.net (even vba) to c# really is in the dot.net environment ...I was a long time vba developer who got pushed into asp.net work by a client and automatically defaulted to using vb.net ...but so many of the samples and tutorials were posted in both vb.net and C# that it became quickly evident that it was mostly just syntax differences ...and minor ones at that ...and more and more of the samples/tutorials I was really interested in were available only in c# because vb.net simply could not do it as well if at all. ...my vote goes to dba.net on the simple basis that most questions posed in either .net language can be readily addressed by any one experienced in either ...besides which the free translators available have become quite adept at going to from either language. ...imnsho, dba.programming will suffer the same fate as dba.vb has but for exactly the opposite reason. ...my 2 cents, worth exactly what it cost you. William _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Oct 23 12:09:30 2007 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 13:09:30 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] C# vs VB - was RE: Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: References: <004701c81594$76b6be50$647aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: <004d01c81597$7a7dd110$647aa8c0@M90> Jim, you forgot: Employers pay more for C# programmers Examples are in C#. Both of those are true and valid reasons. The professionals state that in general both VB and C# are capable. Both are a thin veneer over the .Net framework. And each do have a VERY small handful of things that they can do that the other can't. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 1:03 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] C# vs VB - was RE: Renaming DBA-VB As far as I understand there are 2 possible reasons for going to C# if you are competent in VB.Net. 1. The one key point for going to C# as apposed to Vb.Net would be for performance. That is not the case as they both perform equally so what is the advantage. 2. The other point is that once an application is started in C# it has to be completed in C#. This is also not the case as .Net derivatives can be mixed and compiled. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 9:47 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] C# vs VB - was RE: Renaming DBA-VB William, I programmed for a couple of years completely and only in C for a uController project back in 96/97. I went there from Access 2.0 and returned to Access 97 (VBA). I know that the syntax for C# is quite close to VB.Net in a lot of ways and I also know that there are gotchas that have to be understood, remembered and handled. I think that going from VB.Net to C#.Net is a LOT easier than going from VBA to C#.Net for the simple reason that if you are fluent in VB.Net then you are no longer banging your head over the IDE, the plethora of .Net classes, the intricacies of inheritance, partial classes and so forth and so on. That is all handled and understood and NOW you can concentrate on syntax differences. I have been a programmer full time since 1996, with long stints in variances of basic as well as Pascal and "short" stints in C and I just found it irritating moving directly from VBA to C#. I made an educated decision to postpone the move to C# until I was up to speed on VB.Net. I have done translations of code segments between C# back to VB.Net and I can tell you that sometimes it is easy, sometimes it is not. There are things possible in C# that simply are not possible in VB.Net and, believe it or not, Vice Versa. Some of those differences are quite deep conceptually and can throw a major wrench in any conversion. I have not tried it lately, but I know that My. syntax (My.Computer) exists in VB but not in C#, at least in the past. Thus taking any code with My. constructs and porting them to C# requires quite in-depth knowledge of what the equivalent is. The My. construct is just a wrapper, but a wrapper of WHAT. That is just one quick example. So yes, in GENERAL the programming constructs all pretty much match one for one, { = Begin, } = End, For exists in both etc. Once you get past the basics however there are things which are not so quickly and easily translated. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 11:39 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB ...what many here apparently don't yet understand Gustav, is just how easy and rewarding the transition from vb.net (even vba) to c# really is in the dot.net environment ...I was a long time vba developer who got pushed into asp.net work by a client and automatically defaulted to using vb.net ...but so many of the samples and tutorials were posted in both vb.net and C# that it became quickly evident that it was mostly just syntax differences ...and minor ones at that ...and more and more of the samples/tutorials I was really interested in were available only in c# because vb.net simply could not do it as well if at all. ...my vote goes to dba.net on the simple basis that most questions posed in either .net language can be readily addressed by any one experienced in either ...besides which the free translators available have become quite adept at going to from either language. ...imnsho, dba.programming will suffer the same fate as dba.vb has but for exactly the opposite reason. ...my 2 cents, worth exactly what it cost you. William _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Tue Oct 23 12:43:09 2007 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 13:43:09 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] C# vs VB - was RE: Renaming DBA-VB References: <004701c81594$76b6be50$647aa8c0@M90> <004d01c81597$7a7dd110$647aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: <002901c8159c$2da13440$6b706c4c@JISREGISTRATION.local> ...without getting into an argument I have neither the time nor the acumen for, it would appear that you just made my case for dba.net :) ...the languages are virtually interchangeable front ends for the net framework ...and in fact can be used interchangeably within the framework in most circumstances ...why would we want to eliminate a large group of developers with common problems, resolutions, experiences, and code samples by limiting the new group to only vb.net? William ----- Original Message ----- From: "jwcolby" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 1:09 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] C# vs VB - was RE: Renaming DBA-VB > Jim, you forgot: > > Employers pay more for C# programmers > Examples are in C#. > > Both of those are true and valid reasons. The professionals state that in > general both VB and C# are capable. Both are a thin veneer over the .Net > framework. And each do have a VERY small handful of things that they can > do > that the other can't. > > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 1:03 PM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] C# vs VB - was RE: Renaming DBA-VB > > As far as I understand there are 2 possible reasons for going to C# if you > are competent in VB.Net. > > 1. The one key point for going to C# as apposed to Vb.Net would be for > performance. That is not the case as they both perform equally so what is > the advantage. > > 2. The other point is that once an application is started in C# it has to > be > completed in C#. This is also not the case as .Net derivatives can be > mixed > and compiled. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 9:47 AM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [dba-VB] C# vs VB - was RE: Renaming DBA-VB > > William, > > I programmed for a couple of years completely and only in C for a > uController project back in 96/97. I went there from Access 2.0 and > returned to Access 97 (VBA). I know that the syntax for C# is quite close > to VB.Net in a lot of ways and I also know that there are gotchas that > have > to be understood, remembered and handled. I think that going from VB.Net > to > C#.Net is a LOT easier than going from VBA to C#.Net for the simple reason > that if you are fluent in VB.Net then you are no longer banging your head > over the IDE, the plethora of .Net classes, the intricacies of > inheritance, > partial classes and so forth and so on. That is all handled and > understood > and NOW you can concentrate on syntax differences. > > I have been a programmer full time since 1996, with long stints in > variances > of basic as well as Pascal and "short" stints in C and I just found it > irritating moving directly from VBA to C#. I made an educated decision to > postpone the move to C# until I was up to speed on VB.Net. I have done > translations of code segments between C# back to VB.Net and I can tell you > that sometimes it is easy, sometimes it is not. There are things possible > in C# that simply are not possible in VB.Net and, believe it or not, Vice > Versa. Some of those differences are quite deep conceptually and can > throw > a major wrench in any conversion. > > I have not tried it lately, but I know that My. syntax (My.Computer) > exists > in VB but not in C#, at least in the past. Thus taking any code with My. > constructs and porting them to C# requires quite in-depth knowledge of > what > the equivalent is. The My. construct is just a wrapper, but a wrapper of > WHAT. That is just one quick example. > > So yes, in GENERAL the programming constructs all pretty much match one > for > one, { = Begin, } = End, For exists in both etc. Once you get past the > basics however there are things which are not so quickly and easily > translated. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman > Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 11:39 AM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > ...what many here apparently don't yet understand Gustav, is just how easy > and rewarding the transition from vb.net (even vba) to c# really is in the > dot.net environment ...I was a long time vba developer who got pushed into > asp.net work by a client and automatically defaulted to using vb.net > ...but > so many of the samples and tutorials were posted in both vb.net and C# > that > it became quickly evident that it was mostly just syntax differences > ...and > minor ones at that ...and more and more of the samples/tutorials I was > really interested in were available only in c# because vb.net simply > could > not do it as well if at all. > > ...my vote goes to dba.net on the simple basis that most questions posed > in > either .net language can be readily addressed by any one experienced in > either ...besides which the free translators available have become quite > adept at going to from either language. > > ...imnsho, dba.programming will suffer the same fate as dba.vb has but for > exactly the opposite reason. > > ...my 2 cents, worth exactly what it cost you. > > William > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Oct 23 13:08:40 2007 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 14:08:40 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] C# vs VB - was RE: Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: <002901c8159c$2da13440$6b706c4c@JISREGISTRATION.local> References: <004701c81594$76b6be50$647aa8c0@M90><004d01c81597$7a7dd110$647aa8c0@M90> <002901c8159c$2da13440$6b706c4c@JISREGISTRATION.local> Message-ID: <005101c8159f$be798f00$647aa8c0@M90> I have no problem with that, I just would hate to see it purport to be a knowledge base for every language under the sun. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 1:43 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] C# vs VB - was RE: Renaming DBA-VB ...without getting into an argument I have neither the time nor the acumen for, it would appear that you just made my case for dba.net :) ...the languages are virtually interchangeable front ends for the net framework ...and in fact can be used interchangeably within the framework in most circumstances ...why would we want to eliminate a large group of developers with common problems, resolutions, experiences, and code samples by limiting the new group to only vb.net? William ----- Original Message ----- From: "jwcolby" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 1:09 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] C# vs VB - was RE: Renaming DBA-VB > Jim, you forgot: > > Employers pay more for C# programmers > Examples are in C#. > > Both of those are true and valid reasons. The professionals state that in > general both VB and C# are capable. Both are a thin veneer over the .Net > framework. And each do have a VERY small handful of things that they can > do > that the other can't. > > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 1:03 PM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] C# vs VB - was RE: Renaming DBA-VB > > As far as I understand there are 2 possible reasons for going to C# if you > are competent in VB.Net. > > 1. The one key point for going to C# as apposed to Vb.Net would be for > performance. That is not the case as they both perform equally so what is > the advantage. > > 2. The other point is that once an application is started in C# it has to > be > completed in C#. This is also not the case as .Net derivatives can be > mixed > and compiled. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 9:47 AM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [dba-VB] C# vs VB - was RE: Renaming DBA-VB > > William, > > I programmed for a couple of years completely and only in C for a > uController project back in 96/97. I went there from Access 2.0 and > returned to Access 97 (VBA). I know that the syntax for C# is quite close > to VB.Net in a lot of ways and I also know that there are gotchas that > have > to be understood, remembered and handled. I think that going from VB.Net > to > C#.Net is a LOT easier than going from VBA to C#.Net for the simple reason > that if you are fluent in VB.Net then you are no longer banging your head > over the IDE, the plethora of .Net classes, the intricacies of > inheritance, > partial classes and so forth and so on. That is all handled and > understood > and NOW you can concentrate on syntax differences. > > I have been a programmer full time since 1996, with long stints in > variances > of basic as well as Pascal and "short" stints in C and I just found it > irritating moving directly from VBA to C#. I made an educated decision to > postpone the move to C# until I was up to speed on VB.Net. I have done > translations of code segments between C# back to VB.Net and I can tell you > that sometimes it is easy, sometimes it is not. There are things possible > in C# that simply are not possible in VB.Net and, believe it or not, Vice > Versa. Some of those differences are quite deep conceptually and can > throw > a major wrench in any conversion. > > I have not tried it lately, but I know that My. syntax (My.Computer) > exists > in VB but not in C#, at least in the past. Thus taking any code with My. > constructs and porting them to C# requires quite in-depth knowledge of > what > the equivalent is. The My. construct is just a wrapper, but a wrapper of > WHAT. That is just one quick example. > > So yes, in GENERAL the programming constructs all pretty much match one > for > one, { = Begin, } = End, For exists in both etc. Once you get past the > basics however there are things which are not so quickly and easily > translated. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman > Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 11:39 AM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > ...what many here apparently don't yet understand Gustav, is just how easy > and rewarding the transition from vb.net (even vba) to c# really is in the > dot.net environment ...I was a long time vba developer who got pushed into > asp.net work by a client and automatically defaulted to using vb.net > ...but > so many of the samples and tutorials were posted in both vb.net and C# > that > it became quickly evident that it was mostly just syntax differences > ...and > minor ones at that ...and more and more of the samples/tutorials I was > really interested in were available only in c# because vb.net simply > could > not do it as well if at all. > > ...my vote goes to dba.net on the simple basis that most questions posed > in > either .net language can be readily addressed by any one experienced in > either ...besides which the free translators available have become quite > adept at going to from either language. > > ...imnsho, dba.programming will suffer the same fate as dba.vb has but for > exactly the opposite reason. > > ...my 2 cents, worth exactly what it cost you. > > William > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From robert at webedb.com Tue Oct 23 13:13:09 2007 From: robert at webedb.com (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 13:13:09 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] C# vs VB - was RE: Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200710231818.l9NIInOt026521@databaseadvisors.com> The third is that it is what the customer wants. Most of the contracting in the Houston, TX area is for C# and not VB.net. No matter how you slice this one, it comes up C#. So, in the naming thing, DBA-DotNetLanguages is probably too broad. Create 2 new ones (at least) DBA-VBnet and DBA-C#. The the questions can fall where they belong. At 11:58 AM 10/23/2007, you wrote: >Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 10:02:44 -0700 >From: Jim Lawrence >Subject: Re: [dba-VB] C# vs VB - was RE: Renaming DBA-VB >To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com >Message-ID: > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > >As far as I understand there are 2 possible reasons for going to C# if you >are competent in VB.Net. > >1. The one key point for going to C# as apposed to Vb.Net would be for >performance. That is not the case as they both perform equally so what is >the advantage. > >2. The other point is that once an application is started in C# it has to be >completed in C#. This is also not the case as .Net derivatives can be mixed >and compiled. > >Jim From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue Oct 23 13:29:02 2007 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 20:29:02 +0200 Subject: [dba-VB] C# vs VB - was RE: Renaming DBA-VB Message-ID: Hi Robert I think the traffic on that new list would be too low ... /gustav >>> robert at webedb.com 23-10-2007 20:13:09 >>> The third is that it is what the customer wants. Most of the contracting in the Houston, TX area is for C# and not VB.net. No matter how you slice this one, it comes up C#. So, in the naming thing, DBA-DotNetLanguages is probably too broad. Create 2 new ones (at least) DBA-VBnet and DBA-C#. The the questions can fall where they belong. From michael at ddisolutions.com.au Tue Oct 23 18:54:56 2007 From: michael at ddisolutions.com.au (Michael Maddison) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 09:54:56 +1000 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB References: <004801c8158a$dac17200$6b706c4c@JISREGISTRATION.local> Message-ID: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D01289F54@ddi-01.DDI.local> I concur... Went exactly the same path as William, 1st .net project in VB since then C# exclusively. Amazing how many clients with bugger all experience in Dev specify C# as well... cheers Michael M ...what many here apparently don't yet understand Gustav, is just how easy and rewarding the transition from vb.net (even vba) to c# really is in the dot.net environment ...I was a long time vba developer who got pushed into asp.net work by a client and automatically defaulted to using vb.net ...but so many of the samples and tutorials were posted in both vb.net and C# that it became quickly evident that it was mostly just syntax differences ...and minor ones at that ...and more and more of the samples/tutorials I was really interested in were available only in c# because vb.net simply could not do it as well if at all. ...my vote goes to dba.net on the simple basis that most questions posed in either .net language can be readily addressed by any one experienced in either ...besides which the free translators available have become quite adept at going to from either language. ...imnsho, dba.programming will suffer the same fate as dba.vb has but for exactly the opposite reason. ...my 2 cents, worth exactly what it cost you. William ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 3:27 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > Hi John et al > > That covers pretty much my opinion. > However, the new name isn't important too me, I just found VB(6) too > restricted. I don't think anyone would be offended by a post on Java, > Python or any other language, even VBScript - in fact I would welcome it - > it's just that the audience with a relevant knowledge is quite limited so > response would probably be low. But could we develop an audience for, say, > Ruby On Rails it would be great. Even though we here at Cactus Data have > decided for Visual Studio and C#, I would at least browse such postings > because of the relevance to databases and because you can always learn > something. > > In fact, one of the strengths of our lists is the members' broad > background often supported by solid experience from real life, and we > should encourage any step to maintain this. > > /gustav > >>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 23-10-2007 00:29 >>> > This really isn't about the Access list. That will remain named as it is > I > presume. The discussion is about renaming the VB list to embrace a wider > audience. > > It is my opinion that we should not cast too wide a net or we will end up > attracting people for every platform under the sun and they will soon > leave > because there is no support available for their respective platform. > > I thought we should simply widen the target to include the .Net platform, > specifically VB.Net. The list is currently VB oriented, and widening the > scope to include VB.Net (which is a large percentage of the current > traffic) > would be entirely appropriate. > > Just my opinion. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael R Mattys > Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 6:21 PM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > I'm not interested in .Net anything, right now. > > I guess you're saying that both PHP and Ruby on Rails are irrelevant when > it > comes to Access? > > Michael R. Mattys > MapPoint & Access Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Oct 23 19:03:54 2007 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 17:03:54 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: <001701c814fb$043777f0$647aa8c0@M90> References: <200710222034.l9MKYsrO000925@databaseadvisors.com><00dd01c814f9$cd3146b0$0202a8c0@Laptop> <001701c814fb$043777f0$647aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: I agree, John, especially since we aren't creating a new forum, simply renaming one that hasn't been very active of late except in the VB.Net arena. Heck, we get questions in Access-D about Lotus Notes and a variety of other things that aren't Access or VBa. We go through this same process in Woody's Lounge when a new version of Office is released or a new version of Windows or Visual Studio. We added a new forum for .Net and let it go at that. I isn't just VB.Net, but also ADO.Net, ASP, WinForms, WebForms, etc. If we try to make the focus too broad it's more likely that people will go to a list with a name that relates to the help they want, so I consider Programming as way too broad a label unless you preface it with .Net Programming. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 3:30 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB This really isn't about the Access list. That will remain named as it is I presume. The discussion is about renaming the VB list to embrace a wider audience. It is my opinion that we should not cast too wide a net or we will end up attracting people for every platform under the sun and they will soon leave because there is no support available for their respective platform. I thought we should simply widen the target to include the .Net platform, specifically VB.Net. The list is currently VB oriented, and widening the scope to include VB.Net (which is a large percentage of the current traffic) would be entirely appropriate. Just my opinion. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael R Mattys Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 6:21 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I'm not interested in .Net anything, right now. I guess you're saying that both PHP and Ruby on Rails are irrelevant when it comes to Access? Michael R. Mattys MapPoint & Access Dev www.mattysconsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Tue Oct 23 23:03:54 2007 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 23:03:54 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: <003601c8156f$3108e9c0$647aa8c0@M90> References: <003601c8156f$3108e9c0$647aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: <000601c815f2$e4b33d80$6402a8c0@ScuzzPaq> LOL! That was a hoot! -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby ... C#, J#, F#, c#, D#, E# Z# and A flat Minor. From shamil at users.mns.ru Wed Oct 24 01:18:29 2007 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 10:18:29 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: <000601c815f2$e4b33d80$6402a8c0@ScuzzPaq> Message-ID: <000601c81605$b2ab56c0$6401a8c0@nant> <<< ... C#, J#, F#, c#, D#, E# Z# and A flat Minor. >>> Hi All, Let's start building the Tower of Babylon? :) (Just a rhetoric introductory question of course...) I personally *currently* prefer C# for VS-based DB-centered real-life projects' application programming... I'd not mind to develop MS Access 2003/2007/MS Office front-end if my customer will demand that but I will very probably explain/prove to my customer that using VBA/VB6 for anything more than "gluing" MS Access/Office front-end would be waste of resources these days when we have VS2005 for several years and when VS2008 (and .NET Framework 3.5 etc.etc. related) are to be released real soon... One year ago from now I was more VB.NET-ish than C#-ish :) I'd not mind to become Ruby-in-Steel-ish (http://www.sapphiresteel.com/Steel-Download-and-Change-Log ) one year from now and to get really artistic and efficient with it as this Ruby-dance clip shows http://www.metacafe.com/watch/292734/ruby_dancing/ :) I could even get Iron-Python-ish (http://www.devrush.com/world_web_development/world_web_development_blogs/20 07_08_14_13_45_265/full_news ) real soon especially taking into account that I currently programming mainly ASP.NET applications... IOW I mean that right tool should be used for right job/task and that means for me that limiting myself to one programming language is looking here like a loosing strategy - that (limited oneself to use one programming language/tool for every job/task) would look like that - http://www.metacafe.com/watch/881053/penguin_goes_in_shop/ - yes, it's funny and rather efficient but it's not: as artistic and efficient as this http://www.metacafe.com/watch/780405/the_best_goals_ever/ ... and it's not as flexible and free to go in every direction (when needed/forced by market/customers' demands) as this http://www.metacafe.com/watch/788432/extreme_ballerina_stretching/ ... and it (use of one language/tool) is not as hacky/tricky as this http://www.metacafe.com/watch/828731/trigger_green_traffic_lights/ (very efficient on demand "simple' trick :))... and this http://www.metacafe.com/watch/835982/how_to_make_blood_appear_in_body_withou t_any_wound/ (I mean knowing "alchemy" - the best effective and flexible way to use the mix of the modern programming languages/technologies within VS) often helps to keep (new) customers coming etc.etc. :) ) IOW I'm voting/going for being proficient in several programming languages/technologies to be able to speed-up/slow-down when needed (http://www.metacafe.com/watch/880972/viewty/ ) but I'm also voting for/going to use VS IDE as the base (limiting) framework to stay focused on mainstream technologies/development tools, which VS IDE brings so plenty these days... But I'd mainly "limit" myself by VS IDE -enabled programming languages, technologies and .NET Framework for developing core functionality of my customers' applications because VS look like universal and efficient enough for the tasks I'm going to work on: the rest of the tasks if they come I'd subcontract to anybody else with pleasure... And then I (hope) I will have enough spare time for the pleasure of playing and watching tennis http://www.metacafe.com/watch/770613/maria_sharapova/ and traveling to watch the funny events like this one http://www.metacafe.com/watch/786303/bathroom_break/ :) Just wanted to make funny and joyful this becoming a little bit "religious" and boring thread... Sorry if my this posting may sound "religious and boring" for somebody here... Thanks :) -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 8:04 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB LOL! That was a hoot! -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby ... C#, J#, F#, c#, D#, E# Z# and A flat Minor. _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From R.Griffiths at bury.gov.uk Wed Oct 24 03:44:55 2007 From: R.Griffiths at bury.gov.uk (Griffiths, Richard) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 09:44:55 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: References: <200710222034.l9MKYsrO000925@databaseadvisors.com><00dd01c814f9$cd3146b0$0202a8c0@Laptop><001701c814fb$043777f0$647aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: <200710240829.l9O8TMw03053@smarthost.yourcomms.net> I used to use AccessD regularly as most of my development was in MS Access - I still get the emails and use as required (I decided to bite the bullet on throw my efforts in to .NET (VB)). So from someone looking in (more objectively?) I would agree with Charlotte - you are not creating a new forum simply renaming / updating an existing one - go with that. -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: 24 October 2007 01:04 To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I agree, John, especially since we aren't creating a new forum, simply renaming one that hasn't been very active of late except in the VB.Net arena. Heck, we get questions in Access-D about Lotus Notes and a variety of other things that aren't Access or VBa. We go through this same process in Woody's Lounge when a new version of Office is released or a new version of Windows or Visual Studio. We added a new forum for .Net and let it go at that. I isn't just VB.Net, but also ADO.Net, ASP, WinForms, WebForms, etc. If we try to make the focus too broad it's more likely that people will go to a list with a name that relates to the help they want, so I consider Programming as way too broad a label unless you preface it with .Net Programming. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 3:30 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB This really isn't about the Access list. That will remain named as it is I presume. The discussion is about renaming the VB list to embrace a wider audience. It is my opinion that we should not cast too wide a net or we will end up attracting people for every platform under the sun and they will soon leave because there is no support available for their respective platform. I thought we should simply widen the target to include the .Net platform, specifically VB.Net. The list is currently VB oriented, and widening the scope to include VB.Net (which is a large percentage of the current traffic) would be entirely appropriate. Just my opinion. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael R Mattys Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 6:21 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I'm not interested in .Net anything, right now. I guess you're saying that both PHP and Ruby on Rails are irrelevant when it comes to Access? Michael R. Mattys MapPoint & Access Dev www.mattysconsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Oct 24 14:12:04 2007 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 12:12:04 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: <000601c81605$b2ab56c0$6401a8c0@nant> Message-ID: I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering that its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the speed of any .Net flavour. A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not impressed with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was required to write extensive notes in the code. His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 11:18 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB <<< ... C#, J#, F#, c#, D#, E# Z# and A flat Minor. >>> Hi All, Let's start building the Tower of Babylon? :) (Just a rhetoric introductory question of course...) I personally *currently* prefer C# for VS-based DB-centered real-life projects' application programming... I'd not mind to develop MS Access 2003/2007/MS Office front-end if my customer will demand that but I will very probably explain/prove to my customer that using VBA/VB6 for anything more than "gluing" MS Access/Office front-end would be waste of resources these days when we have VS2005 for several years and when VS2008 (and .NET Framework 3.5 etc.etc. related) are to be released real soon... One year ago from now I was more VB.NET-ish than C#-ish :) I'd not mind to become Ruby-in-Steel-ish (http://www.sapphiresteel.com/Steel-Download-and-Change-Log ) one year from now and to get really artistic and efficient with it as this Ruby-dance clip shows http://www.metacafe.com/watch/292734/ruby_dancing/ :) I could even get Iron-Python-ish (http://www.devrush.com/world_web_development/world_web_development_blogs/20 07_08_14_13_45_265/full_news ) real soon especially taking into account that I currently programming mainly ASP.NET applications... IOW I mean that right tool should be used for right job/task and that means for me that limiting myself to one programming language is looking here like a loosing strategy - that (limited oneself to use one programming language/tool for every job/task) would look like that - http://www.metacafe.com/watch/881053/penguin_goes_in_shop/ - yes, it's funny and rather efficient but it's not: as artistic and efficient as this http://www.metacafe.com/watch/780405/the_best_goals_ever/ ... and it's not as flexible and free to go in every direction (when needed/forced by market/customers' demands) as this http://www.metacafe.com/watch/788432/extreme_ballerina_stretching/ ... and it (use of one language/tool) is not as hacky/tricky as this http://www.metacafe.com/watch/828731/trigger_green_traffic_lights/ (very efficient on demand "simple' trick :))... and this http://www.metacafe.com/watch/835982/how_to_make_blood_appear_in_body_withou t_any_wound/ (I mean knowing "alchemy" - the best effective and flexible way to use the mix of the modern programming languages/technologies within VS) often helps to keep (new) customers coming etc.etc. :) ) IOW I'm voting/going for being proficient in several programming languages/technologies to be able to speed-up/slow-down when needed (http://www.metacafe.com/watch/880972/viewty/ ) but I'm also voting for/going to use VS IDE as the base (limiting) framework to stay focused on mainstream technologies/development tools, which VS IDE brings so plenty these days... But I'd mainly "limit" myself by VS IDE -enabled programming languages, technologies and .NET Framework for developing core functionality of my customers' applications because VS look like universal and efficient enough for the tasks I'm going to work on: the rest of the tasks if they come I'd subcontract to anybody else with pleasure... And then I (hope) I will have enough spare time for the pleasure of playing and watching tennis http://www.metacafe.com/watch/770613/maria_sharapova/ and traveling to watch the funny events like this one http://www.metacafe.com/watch/786303/bathroom_break/ :) Just wanted to make funny and joyful this becoming a little bit "religious" and boring thread... Sorry if my this posting may sound "religious and boring" for somebody here... Thanks :) -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 8:04 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB LOL! That was a hoot! -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby ... C#, J#, F#, c#, D#, E# Z# and A flat Minor. _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Oct 24 20:45:50 2007 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 18:45:50 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <6568A7509F5248339AF9C2EB443C7C51@creativesystemdesigns.com> I do not usually answer my own emails but... I must qualify my last comments as I was unaware of the product cost which had me fumbling for my oxygen mask as soon as I saw it. Fortunately there are evaluation copies available. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:12 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering that its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the speed of any .Net flavour. A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not impressed with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was required to write extensive notes in the code. His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 11:18 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB <<< ... C#, J#, F#, c#, D#, E# Z# and A flat Minor. >>> Hi All, Let's start building the Tower of Babylon? :) (Just a rhetoric introductory question of course...) I personally *currently* prefer C# for VS-based DB-centered real-life projects' application programming... I'd not mind to develop MS Access 2003/2007/MS Office front-end if my customer will demand that but I will very probably explain/prove to my customer that using VBA/VB6 for anything more than "gluing" MS Access/Office front-end would be waste of resources these days when we have VS2005 for several years and when VS2008 (and .NET Framework 3.5 etc.etc. related) are to be released real soon... One year ago from now I was more VB.NET-ish than C#-ish :) I'd not mind to become Ruby-in-Steel-ish (http://www.sapphiresteel.com/Steel-Download-and-Change-Log ) one year from now and to get really artistic and efficient with it as this Ruby-dance clip shows http://www.metacafe.com/watch/292734/ruby_dancing/ :) I could even get Iron-Python-ish (http://www.devrush.com/world_web_development/world_web_development_blogs/20 07_08_14_13_45_265/full_news ) real soon especially taking into account that I currently programming mainly ASP.NET applications... IOW I mean that right tool should be used for right job/task and that means for me that limiting myself to one programming language is looking here like a loosing strategy - that (limited oneself to use one programming language/tool for every job/task) would look like that - http://www.metacafe.com/watch/881053/penguin_goes_in_shop/ - yes, it's funny and rather efficient but it's not: as artistic and efficient as this http://www.metacafe.com/watch/780405/the_best_goals_ever/ ... and it's not as flexible and free to go in every direction (when needed/forced by market/customers' demands) as this http://www.metacafe.com/watch/788432/extreme_ballerina_stretching/ ... and it (use of one language/tool) is not as hacky/tricky as this http://www.metacafe.com/watch/828731/trigger_green_traffic_lights/ (very efficient on demand "simple' trick :))... and this http://www.metacafe.com/watch/835982/how_to_make_blood_appear_in_body_withou t_any_wound/ (I mean knowing "alchemy" - the best effective and flexible way to use the mix of the modern programming languages/technologies within VS) often helps to keep (new) customers coming etc.etc. :) ) IOW I'm voting/going for being proficient in several programming languages/technologies to be able to speed-up/slow-down when needed (http://www.metacafe.com/watch/880972/viewty/ ) but I'm also voting for/going to use VS IDE as the base (limiting) framework to stay focused on mainstream technologies/development tools, which VS IDE brings so plenty these days... But I'd mainly "limit" myself by VS IDE -enabled programming languages, technologies and .NET Framework for developing core functionality of my customers' applications because VS look like universal and efficient enough for the tasks I'm going to work on: the rest of the tasks if they come I'd subcontract to anybody else with pleasure... And then I (hope) I will have enough spare time for the pleasure of playing and watching tennis http://www.metacafe.com/watch/770613/maria_sharapova/ and traveling to watch the funny events like this one http://www.metacafe.com/watch/786303/bathroom_break/ :) Just wanted to make funny and joyful this becoming a little bit "religious" and boring thread... Sorry if my this posting may sound "religious and boring" for somebody here... Thanks :) -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 8:04 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB LOL! That was a hoot! -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby ... C#, J#, F#, c#, D#, E# Z# and A flat Minor. _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Wed Oct 24 21:08:57 2007 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Michael R Mattys) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 22:08:57 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB References: <6568A7509F5248339AF9C2EB443C7C51@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <01b101c816ac$03e319a0$0202a8c0@Laptop> Glad to hear some news on this, since I decided to go with PHP and its adodb data-abstraction layer add-on. I will use MySQL or SQLite for which this wrapper is used http://www.thecommon.net/2.html Michael R. Mattys MapPoint & Access Dev www.mattysconsulting.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 9:45 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB >I do not usually answer my own emails but... > > I must qualify my last comments as I was unaware of the product cost which > had me fumbling for my oxygen mask as soon as I saw it. > > Fortunately there are evaluation copies available. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:12 PM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering > that > its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the > speed of any .Net flavour. > > A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not impressed > with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was > required to write extensive notes in the code. > > His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: > http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ > > Jim > From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Oct 25 01:40:58 2007 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 23:40:58 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: <01b101c816ac$03e319a0$0202a8c0@Laptop> Message-ID: Hi Michael: That sounds like an excellent choice for a low cost development environment. Are you also planning to migrate to the Linux OS as well? Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael R Mattys Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 7:09 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Glad to hear some news on this, since I decided to go with PHP and its adodb data-abstraction layer add-on. I will use MySQL or SQLite for which this wrapper is used http://www.thecommon.net/2.html Michael R. Mattys MapPoint & Access Dev www.mattysconsulting.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 9:45 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB >I do not usually answer my own emails but... > > I must qualify my last comments as I was unaware of the product cost which > had me fumbling for my oxygen mask as soon as I saw it. > > Fortunately there are evaluation copies available. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:12 PM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering > that > its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the > speed of any .Net flavour. > > A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not impressed > with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was > required to write extensive notes in the code. > > His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: > http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ > > Jim > _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at users.mns.ru Thu Oct 25 01:48:08 2007 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 10:48:08 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: <6568A7509F5248339AF9C2EB443C7C51@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <000001c816d3$00905a70$6401a8c0@nant> <<< I was unaware of the product cost.... >>> Hi Jim. Yes, I have just checked the price - it looks unaffordable for small-/middle-size businesses. Yes, there is evaluation version but... I'd currently think that ASP.NET and C#/VB.NET(VS Express) + MS SQL 2005 Express/Access backend DB is the best ever available toolset for Web (and whatever else) real life business applications development... And they are free for download and use, aren't they?... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:46 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I do not usually answer my own emails but... I must qualify my last comments as I was unaware of the product cost which had me fumbling for my oxygen mask as soon as I saw it. Fortunately there are evaluation copies available. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:12 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering that its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the speed of any .Net flavour. A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not impressed with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was required to write extensive notes in the code. His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ Jim <<< tail of the message trimmed to preserve some cyberspace >>> From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Thu Oct 25 03:24:11 2007 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 04:24:11 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB References: <000001c816d3$00905a70$6401a8c0@nant> Message-ID: <000701c816e0$6c2aaa80$6b706c4c@jisshowsbs.local> Shamil ...yes, free!!! ...the express products value has been simply incredible for me ...I've yet to run into anything I could do with Access that I can't find a way to do with one or more of the express products ...and the amount/quality of code/support available on-line is every bit as good ...I still tend to model an app in Access first but I'm now starting to deliver in VS/SQL Server ...and the client sales are soooooo much easier in most cases. William ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shamil Salakhetdinov" To: Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 2:48 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > <<< > I was unaware of the product cost.... >>>> > Hi Jim. > > Yes, I have just checked the price - it looks unaffordable for > small-/middle-size businesses. Yes, there is evaluation version but... > > I'd currently think that ASP.NET and C#/VB.NET(VS Express) + MS SQL 2005 > Express/Access backend DB is the best ever available toolset for Web (and > whatever else) real life business applications development... > > And they are free for download and use, aren't they?... > > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:46 AM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > I do not usually answer my own emails but... > > I must qualify my last comments as I was unaware of the product cost which > had me fumbling for my oxygen mask as soon as I saw it. > > Fortunately there are evaluation copies available. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:12 PM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering > that > its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the > speed of any .Net flavour. > > A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not impressed > with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was > required to write extensive notes in the code. > > His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: > http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ > > Jim > > <<< tail of the message trimmed to preserve some cyberspace >>> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Oct 25 07:03:08 2007 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 14:03:08 +0200 Subject: [dba-VB] Browsing records (was: Renaming DBA-VB) Message-ID: Hi William Which control do you use for browsing records on forms? The default dataTableBindingNavigator? If so, have you managed to undock it so it can float? I have the GripStyle set to Visible, but the toolstrip is not to grip and move around. /gustav >>> wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com 25-10-2007 10:24 >>> Shamil ...yes, free!!! ...the express products value has been simply incredible for me ...I've yet to run into anything I could do with Access that I can't find a way to do with one or more of the express products ...and the amount/quality of code/support available on-line is every bit as good ...I still tend to model an app in Access first but I'm now starting to deliver in VS/SQL Server ...and the client sales are soooooo much easier in most cases. William ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shamil Salakhetdinov" To: Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 2:48 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > <<< > I was unaware of the product cost.... >>>> > Hi Jim. > > Yes, I have just checked the price - it looks unaffordable for > small-/middle-size businesses. Yes, there is evaluation version but... > > I'd currently think that ASP.NET and C#/VB.NET(VS Express) + MS SQL 2005 > Express/Access backend DB is the best ever available toolset for Web (and > whatever else) real life business applications development... > > And they are free for download and use, aren't they?... > > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:46 AM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > I do not usually answer my own emails but... > > I must qualify my last comments as I was unaware of the product cost which > had me fumbling for my oxygen mask as soon as I saw it. > > Fortunately there are evaluation copies available. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:12 PM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering > that > its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the > speed of any .Net flavour. > > A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not impressed > with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was > required to write extensive notes in the code. > > His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: > http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ > > Jim From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Thu Oct 25 07:15:07 2007 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Michael R Mattys) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 08:15:07 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB References: Message-ID: <01f701c81700$af43e3c0$0202a8c0@Laptop> Jim, I don't have plans to work with Linux yet, but I certainly would like to learn it. Michael R. Mattys MapPoint & Access Dev www.mattysconsulting.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence" To: Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 2:40 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > Hi Michael: > > That sounds like an excellent choice for a low cost development > environment. > Are you also planning to migrate to the Linux OS as well? > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael R Mattys > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 7:09 PM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > Glad to hear some news on this, since I decided to go with PHP > and its adodb data-abstraction layer add-on. > > I will use MySQL or SQLite for which this wrapper is used > http://www.thecommon.net/2.html > > Michael R. Mattys > MapPoint & Access Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim Lawrence" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 9:45 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > >>I do not usually answer my own emails but... >> >> I must qualify my last comments as I was unaware of the product cost >> which >> had me fumbling for my oxygen mask as soon as I saw it. >> >> Fortunately there are evaluation copies available. >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence >> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:12 PM >> To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB >> >> I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering >> that >> its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the >> speed of any .Net flavour. >> >> A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not >> impressed >> with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was >> required to write extensive notes in the code. >> >> His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: >> http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ >> >> Jim >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at users.mns.ru Thu Oct 25 07:50:30 2007 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 16:50:30 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: <000701c816e0$6c2aaa80$6b706c4c@jisshowsbs.local> Message-ID: <000b01c81705$a040b650$6401a8c0@nant> Yes, William, And there are no hidden costs (?), are there? (I assume that MS Windows is the target platform of course...) And the move from VBA/VB6 to VB2005 (and C# 2.0) is usually smooth because there so many analogies between WinForms/ASP.Net and MS Access forms programming and because VB2005/C# 2.0 has all VBA/VB6 built-in functions implemented etc. ... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 12:24 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Shamil ...yes, free!!! ...the express products value has been simply incredible for me ...I've yet to run into anything I could do with Access that I can't find a way to do with one or more of the express products ...and the amount/quality of code/support available on-line is every bit as good ...I still tend to model an app in Access first but I'm now starting to deliver in VS/SQL Server ...and the client sales are soooooo much easier in most cases. William ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shamil Salakhetdinov" To: Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 2:48 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > <<< > I was unaware of the product cost.... >>>> > Hi Jim. > > Yes, I have just checked the price - it looks unaffordable for > small-/middle-size businesses. Yes, there is evaluation version but... > > I'd currently think that ASP.NET and C#/VB.NET(VS Express) + MS SQL 2005 > Express/Access backend DB is the best ever available toolset for Web (and > whatever else) real life business applications development... > > And they are free for download and use, aren't they?... > > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:46 AM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > I do not usually answer my own emails but... > > I must qualify my last comments as I was unaware of the product cost which > had me fumbling for my oxygen mask as soon as I saw it. > > Fortunately there are evaluation copies available. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:12 PM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering > that > its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the > speed of any .Net flavour. > > A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not impressed > with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was > required to write extensive notes in the code. > > His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: > http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ > > Jim > > <<< tail of the message trimmed to preserve some cyberspace >>> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at users.mns.ru Thu Oct 25 07:58:47 2007 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 16:58:47 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Browsing records (was: Renaming DBA-VB) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001201c81706$c8593030$6401a8c0@nant> Hi Gustav, Just set Dock style to None and then you can freely move and place xBindingNavigator whenever you wanted to have it on a WinForm... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 4:03 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] Browsing records (was: Renaming DBA-VB) Hi William Which control do you use for browsing records on forms? The default dataTableBindingNavigator? If so, have you managed to undock it so it can float? I have the GripStyle set to Visible, but the toolstrip is not to grip and move around. /gustav >>> wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com 25-10-2007 10:24 >>> Shamil ...yes, free!!! ...the express products value has been simply incredible for me ...I've yet to run into anything I could do with Access that I can't find a way to do with one or more of the express products ...and the amount/quality of code/support available on-line is every bit as good ...I still tend to model an app in Access first but I'm now starting to deliver in VS/SQL Server ...and the client sales are soooooo much easier in most cases. William ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shamil Salakhetdinov" To: Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 2:48 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > <<< > I was unaware of the product cost.... >>>> > Hi Jim. > > Yes, I have just checked the price - it looks unaffordable for > small-/middle-size businesses. Yes, there is evaluation version but... > > I'd currently think that ASP.NET and C#/VB.NET(VS Express) + MS SQL 2005 > Express/Access backend DB is the best ever available toolset for Web (and > whatever else) real life business applications development... > > And they are free for download and use, aren't they?... > > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:46 AM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > I do not usually answer my own emails but... > > I must qualify my last comments as I was unaware of the product cost which > had me fumbling for my oxygen mask as soon as I saw it. > > Fortunately there are evaluation copies available. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:12 PM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering > that > its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the > speed of any .Net flavour. > > A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not impressed > with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was > required to write extensive notes in the code. > > His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: > http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ > > Jim _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Oct 25 08:21:29 2007 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 15:21:29 +0200 Subject: [dba-VB] Browsing records (was: Renaming DBA-VB) Message-ID: Hi Shamil Yes, but in design mode only. I thought, having the dotted grip farmost left visible, the user could drag the control around with the mouse- as you can do with a toolbar in Access? /gustav >>> shamil at users.mns.ru 25-10-2007 14:58 >>> Hi Gustav, Just set Dock style to None and then you can freely move and place xBindingNavigator whenever you wanted to have it on a WinForm... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 4:03 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] Browsing records (was: Renaming DBA-VB) Hi William Which control do you use for browsing records on forms? The default dataTableBindingNavigator? If so, have you managed to undock it so it can float? I have the GripStyle set to Visible, but the toolstrip is not to grip and move around. /gustav From shamil at users.mns.ru Thu Oct 25 09:14:50 2007 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 18:14:50 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Browsing records (was: Renaming DBA-VB) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001101c81711$6926c310$6401a8c0@nant> Hi Gustav, I do not know about this feature - I'd expect for that kind of stuff you'll need to purchase third-party controls as e.g. http://www.divil.co.uk/net/controls/sandribbon/ ... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:21 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Browsing records (was: Renaming DBA-VB) Hi Shamil Yes, but in design mode only. I thought, having the dotted grip farmost left visible, the user could drag the control around with the mouse- as you can do with a toolbar in Access? /gustav >>> shamil at users.mns.ru 25-10-2007 14:58 >>> Hi Gustav, Just set Dock style to None and then you can freely move and place xBindingNavigator whenever you wanted to have it on a WinForm... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 4:03 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] Browsing records (was: Renaming DBA-VB) Hi William Which control do you use for browsing records on forms? The default dataTableBindingNavigator? If so, have you managed to undock it so it can float? I have the GripStyle set to Visible, but the toolstrip is not to grip and move around. /gustav _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Oct 25 10:05:13 2007 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 17:05:13 +0200 Subject: [dba-VB] Browsing records (was: Renaming DBA-VB) Message-ID: Hi Shamil That I could do, but I just wondered what the grip is for if the control cannot be moved around? The control as is, is fine for most tasks. /gustav >>> shamil at users.mns.ru 25-10-2007 16:14 >>> Hi Gustav, I do not know about this feature - I'd expect for that kind of stuff you'll need to purchase third-party controls as e.g. http://www.divil.co.uk/net/controls/sandribbon/ ... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:21 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Browsing records (was: Renaming DBA-VB) Hi Shamil Yes, but in design mode only. I thought, having the dotted grip farmost left visible, the user could drag the control around with the mouse- as you can do with a toolbar in Access? /gustav >>> shamil at users.mns.ru 25-10-2007 14:58 >>> Hi Gustav, Just set Dock style to None and then you can freely move and place xBindingNavigator whenever you wanted to have it on a WinForm... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 4:03 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] Browsing records (was: Renaming DBA-VB) Hi William Which control do you use for browsing records on forms? The default dataTableBindingNavigator? If so, have you managed to undock it so it can float? I have the GripStyle set to Visible, but the toolstrip is not to grip and move around. /gustav From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Thu Oct 25 11:57:55 2007 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 12:57:55 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB References: <000b01c81705$a040b650$6401a8c0@nant> Message-ID: <002b01c81728$30c1ff50$6b706c4c@jisshowsbs.local> ...I don't see any hidden costs in my work as yet ...I've converted a mid sized Access app for a client to a browser based one running on his intranet with .net3 and VWDE ...the open source Ajax Control Tool Kit along with MS's control extension abilities and SSE go together like peanutbutter and jelly ...once you have the pieces in place and have worked through a few samples, its almost as easy as Access ...but you get really good speed from a server based app with the advantages of SQL Server as well. ...granted that I've not ventured far from the beaten path as you and Gustav are wont to do but then I'm still wondering why I waited so long, eh ...in all honesty I'd still be plugging away at vb if it weren't for all the sample code out there pulished in both vb and c# making it apparent that even a hack like me could write reasonably acceptable C# code. ...and you are definitely right about the similarities in writing code, designing forms, etc ...dotnet2 and above has so much built into the framework that one of the major advantages of Access, at least it always was to me, simply no longer applies ...once you sync your brain with the object inheritence paradyme, I'm convinced that I'm actually writing less code and getting more from it. ...and every line, every form, every table are all free, MS tool based ...and they still get all the pros and cons of being part of the MS software stable ...my only concern right now is that MS will back off the express product line because there are so many like me who no longer need to invest thousands in their development tools every year ...with the client I mentioned above, the rationale behind standardizing on MS Office no longer exists and converting to one of the Open Office products is a real possibility ...that's a threat to the MS bread & butter. William ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shamil Salakhetdinov" To: Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 8:50 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > Yes, William, > > And there are no hidden costs (?), are there? (I assume that MS Windows is > the target platform of course...) > > And the move from VBA/VB6 to VB2005 (and C# 2.0) is usually smooth because > there so many analogies between WinForms/ASP.Net and MS Access forms > programming and because VB2005/C# 2.0 has all VBA/VB6 built-in functions > implemented etc. ... > > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman > Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 12:24 PM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > Shamil > > ...yes, free!!! ...the express products value has been simply incredible > for > > me ...I've yet to run into anything I could do with Access that I can't > find > > a way to do with one or more of the express products ...and the > amount/quality of code/support available on-line is every bit as good ...I > still tend to model an app in Access first but I'm now starting to deliver > in VS/SQL Server ...and the client sales are soooooo much easier in most > cases. > > William > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Shamil Salakhetdinov" > To: > Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 2:48 AM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > >> <<< >> I was unaware of the product cost.... >>>>> >> Hi Jim. >> >> Yes, I have just checked the price - it looks unaffordable for >> small-/middle-size businesses. Yes, there is evaluation version but... >> >> I'd currently think that ASP.NET and C#/VB.NET(VS Express) + MS SQL 2005 >> Express/Access backend DB is the best ever available toolset for Web (and >> whatever else) real life business applications development... >> >> And they are free for download and use, aren't they?... >> >> >> -- >> Shamil >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence >> Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:46 AM >> To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB >> >> I do not usually answer my own emails but... >> >> I must qualify my last comments as I was unaware of the product cost >> which >> had me fumbling for my oxygen mask as soon as I saw it. >> >> Fortunately there are evaluation copies available. >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence >> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:12 PM >> To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB >> >> I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering >> that >> its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the >> speed of any .Net flavour. >> >> A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not >> impressed >> with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was >> required to write extensive notes in the code. >> >> His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: >> http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ >> >> Jim >> >> <<< tail of the message trimmed to preserve some cyberspace >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-VB mailing list >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Thu Oct 25 12:00:10 2007 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 13:00:10 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Browsing records (was: Renaming DBA-VB) References: Message-ID: <002f01c81728$81133730$6b706c4c@jisshowsbs.local> Gustav ...sorry, hadn't even thought of trying that yet ...still getting my feet wet here ...the soles, eh :) William ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 8:03 AM Subject: [dba-VB] Browsing records (was: Renaming DBA-VB) > Hi William > > Which control do you use for browsing records on forms? The default > dataTableBindingNavigator? > If so, have you managed to undock it so it can float? I have the GripStyle > set to Visible, but the toolstrip is not to grip and move around. > > /gustav > >>>> wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com 25-10-2007 10:24 >>> > Shamil > > ...yes, free!!! ...the express products value has been simply incredible > for > me ...I've yet to run into anything I could do with Access that I can't > find > a way to do with one or more of the express products ...and the > amount/quality of code/support available on-line is every bit as good ...I > still tend to model an app in Access first but I'm now starting to deliver > in VS/SQL Server ...and the client sales are soooooo much easier in most > cases. > > William > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Shamil Salakhetdinov" > To: > Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 2:48 AM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > >> <<< >> I was unaware of the product cost.... >>>>> >> Hi Jim. >> >> Yes, I have just checked the price - it looks unaffordable for >> small-/middle-size businesses. Yes, there is evaluation version but... >> >> I'd currently think that ASP.NET and C#/VB.NET(VS Express) + MS SQL 2005 >> Express/Access backend DB is the best ever available toolset for Web (and >> whatever else) real life business applications development... >> >> And they are free for download and use, aren't they?... >> >> >> -- >> Shamil >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence >> Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:46 AM >> To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB >> >> I do not usually answer my own emails but... >> >> I must qualify my last comments as I was unaware of the product cost >> which >> had me fumbling for my oxygen mask as soon as I saw it. >> >> Fortunately there are evaluation copies available. >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence >> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:12 PM >> To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB >> >> I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering >> that >> its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the >> speed of any .Net flavour. >> >> A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not >> impressed >> with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was >> required to write extensive notes in the code. >> >> His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: >> http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ >> >> Jim > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Oct 25 12:18:08 2007 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 10:18:08 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: <000001c816d3$00905a70$6401a8c0@nant> Message-ID: <399F05E3795142BAB07BC21F4B78795B@creativesystemdesigns.com> Shamil... you are correct in all that. This friend who is strongly recommending Eiffel is planning on leaving his current job soon and as his wife now has an excellent job at the college and he has decided to go freelance. He wants to work with me on projects and is planning on buying a full licensed version.... To make a short story long I may be becoming an Eiffel guru whether I want to or not. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 11:48 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB <<< I was unaware of the product cost.... >>> Hi Jim. Yes, I have just checked the price - it looks unaffordable for small-/middle-size businesses. Yes, there is evaluation version but... I'd currently think that ASP.NET and C#/VB.NET(VS Express) + MS SQL 2005 Express/Access backend DB is the best ever available toolset for Web (and whatever else) real life business applications development... And they are free for download and use, aren't they?... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:46 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I do not usually answer my own emails but... I must qualify my last comments as I was unaware of the product cost which had me fumbling for my oxygen mask as soon as I saw it. Fortunately there are evaluation copies available. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:12 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering that its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the speed of any .Net flavour. A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not impressed with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was required to write extensive notes in the code. His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ Jim <<< tail of the message trimmed to preserve some cyberspace >>> _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Oct 25 12:18:02 2007 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 19:18:02 +0200 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Message-ID: Hi Jim Interesting. Perhaps your friend could tell us briefly about the highlights of Eiffel? Why is it worth the money? /gustav >>> accessd at shaw.ca 25-10-2007 19:18 >>> Shamil... you are correct in all that. This friend who is strongly recommending Eiffel is planning on leaving his current job soon and as his wife now has an excellent job at the college and he has decided to go freelance. He wants to work with me on projects and is planning on buying a full licensed version.... To make a short story long I may be becoming an Eiffel guru whether I want to or not. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 11:48 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB <<< I was unaware of the product cost.... >>> Hi Jim. Yes, I have just checked the price - it looks unaffordable for small-/middle-size businesses. Yes, there is evaluation version but... I'd currently think that ASP.NET and C#/VB.NET(VS Express) + MS SQL 2005 Express/Access backend DB is the best ever available toolset for Web (and whatever else) real life business applications development... And they are free for download and use, aren't they?... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:46 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I do not usually answer my own emails but... I must qualify my last comments as I was unaware of the product cost which had me fumbling for my oxygen mask as soon as I saw it. Fortunately there are evaluation copies available. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:12 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering that its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the speed of any .Net flavour. A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not impressed with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was required to write extensive notes in the code. His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ Jim From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Oct 25 12:44:49 2007 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 10:44:49 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Gustav: I am not qualified to give comment of the Eiffel product myself as all my knowledge is second hand but I have passed your query on to my friend and when he responds I will post his email here. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 10:18 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Hi Jim Interesting. Perhaps your friend could tell us briefly about the highlights of Eiffel? Why is it worth the money? /gustav >>> accessd at shaw.ca 25-10-2007 19:18 >>> Shamil... you are correct in all that. This friend who is strongly recommending Eiffel is planning on leaving his current job soon and as his wife now has an excellent job at the college and he has decided to go freelance. He wants to work with me on projects and is planning on buying a full licensed version.... To make a short story long I may be becoming an Eiffel guru whether I want to or not. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 11:48 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB <<< I was unaware of the product cost.... >>> Hi Jim. Yes, I have just checked the price - it looks unaffordable for small-/middle-size businesses. Yes, there is evaluation version but... I'd currently think that ASP.NET and C#/VB.NET(VS Express) + MS SQL 2005 Express/Access backend DB is the best ever available toolset for Web (and whatever else) real life business applications development... And they are free for download and use, aren't they?... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:46 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I do not usually answer my own emails but... I must qualify my last comments as I was unaware of the product cost which had me fumbling for my oxygen mask as soon as I saw it. Fortunately there are evaluation copies available. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:12 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering that its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the speed of any .Net flavour. A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not impressed with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was required to write extensive notes in the code. His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ Jim _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at users.mns.ru Thu Oct 25 13:48:39 2007 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 22:48:39 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: <399F05E3795142BAB07BC21F4B78795B@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <000001c81737$a8c4f7a0$6401a8c0@nant> Hi Jim, Yes, Eiffel looks like a very advanced programming language but going freelance "armored" with Eiffel doesn't this sound very ambitious?... I mean risky... Or your friend has a good customer base who will for sure supply him and you with Eiffel based software development for many years ahead? Then you should be safe... I remember quite some time ago I did develop software using truly 4G OO DataFlex programming language: that was a real fun to program but then I had found that MS Access 1.1 allows me to achieve better results in shorter time but using "ugly" VBA coding - and I switched to MS Access 1.1 VBA to make money for living, better money than truly 4G OO DataFlex allowed me to make before... I mean C# and VB.NET with every new version are obviously acquiring the best features of the other modern state-of-the-art programming languages as e.g. Eiffel is: in 5(?) years it will be not easy to distinguish C# from Eiffel and VB.Net from Ruby (not by their syntax but by their expressive power)... And I wonder what currently Eiffel can give for real business applications software development, which can't be done using C#/VB.NET maybe a little bit less effective but just a little bit?... Yes, as Gustav, I'd be also very interested to hear your friend's opinion why he is going to "bet on Eiffel"?... Thanks. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 9:18 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Shamil... you are correct in all that. This friend who is strongly recommending Eiffel is planning on leaving his current job soon and as his wife now has an excellent job at the college and he has decided to go freelance. He wants to work with me on projects and is planning on buying a full licensed version.... To make a short story long I may be becoming an Eiffel guru whether I want to or not. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 11:48 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB <<< I was unaware of the product cost.... >>> Hi Jim. Yes, I have just checked the price - it looks unaffordable for small-/middle-size businesses. Yes, there is evaluation version but... I'd currently think that ASP.NET and C#/VB.NET(VS Express) + MS SQL 2005 Express/Access backend DB is the best ever available toolset for Web (and whatever else) real life business applications development... And they are free for download and use, aren't they?... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:46 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I do not usually answer my own emails but... I must qualify my last comments as I was unaware of the product cost which had me fumbling for my oxygen mask as soon as I saw it. Fortunately there are evaluation copies available. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:12 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering that its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the speed of any .Net flavour. A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not impressed with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was required to write extensive notes in the code. His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ Jim <<< tail of the message trimmed to preserve some cyberspace >>> _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at users.mns.ru Thu Oct 25 14:44:40 2007 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 23:44:40 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Using the ASP.NET 2.0 membership, roles etc. providers in .NET console and WinForms applicatons... Message-ID: <000001c8173f$7c0db230$6401a8c0@nant> Hi All, Did anybody use the subject feature? If not here is the good news: <<< Using the ASP.NET membership provider in a Windows forms application http://www.theproblemsolver.nl/usingthemembershipproviderinwinforms.htm >>> But even better news is that one can use section in app.config file to define ASP.NET membership, roles (etc.? I did test the first tow only because I need them currently) providers by thus having a centralized (MS SQL) store to keep applications' membership, roles etc. "standard asp.net way" and to use them in all .NET based not only asp.net applications... I didn't find any article describing this useful feature - did you? Thanks. -- Shamil From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Oct 25 15:32:20 2007 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 13:32:20 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Gustav: As promised here is a reply from my friend: Hi, Jim: The ISE Eiffel website is www.eiffel.com. Note that they now have a dual licensing model for EiffelStudio (the stand-alone workbench), so one can use it free for open source software. There is Eiffel for ASP.net which is *free* - we need to check this out! There is also a .net plugin for Visual Studio (EiffelEnvision) that is not too pricey ($US 1799). Why would we be interested in this beast? - The enterprise versions include visual round-trip engineering tools - The language is very high level, so you can get a lot of mileage with very little code - It works with .net and stand-alone on several platforms - It has design-by-contract, which really helps to reduce bugs - It has simple and powerful multiple inheritance and genericity (none of the "interface" crap that passes for o-o in most other languages) - It has delayed calls (aka "closures") - It has a powerful reflection api - It is really easy to learn because it is so straightforward and logical - It has built-in doc that blows away the competition After coding in Java for a year, I am more than ready to jump ship to Eiffel myself! I would recommend also checking out Gnu SmartEiffel - see http://smarteiffel.loria.fr/index.html Another good link: www.eiffelroom.com It has articles, blogs etc on eiffel. Here is an article from there that helps to show its amazing power: http://www.eiffelroom.com/article/fun_with_generics Best regards, Yigal Hope you find this useful. If you need further details that is also easy to provide. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 10:45 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Hi Gustav: I am not qualified to give comment of the Eiffel product myself as all my knowledge is second hand but I have passed your query on to my friend and when he responds I will post his email here. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 10:18 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Hi Jim Interesting. Perhaps your friend could tell us briefly about the highlights of Eiffel? Why is it worth the money? /gustav >>> accessd at shaw.ca 25-10-2007 19:18 >>> Shamil... you are correct in all that. This friend who is strongly recommending Eiffel is planning on leaving his current job soon and as his wife now has an excellent job at the college and he has decided to go freelance. He wants to work with me on projects and is planning on buying a full licensed version.... To make a short story long I may be becoming an Eiffel guru whether I want to or not. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 11:48 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB <<< I was unaware of the product cost.... >>> Hi Jim. Yes, I have just checked the price - it looks unaffordable for small-/middle-size businesses. Yes, there is evaluation version but... I'd currently think that ASP.NET and C#/VB.NET(VS Express) + MS SQL 2005 Express/Access backend DB is the best ever available toolset for Web (and whatever else) real life business applications development... And they are free for download and use, aren't they?... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:46 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I do not usually answer my own emails but... I must qualify my last comments as I was unaware of the product cost which had me fumbling for my oxygen mask as soon as I saw it. Fortunately there are evaluation copies available. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:12 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering that its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the speed of any .Net flavour. A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not impressed with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was required to write extensive notes in the code. His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ Jim _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Oct 25 15:47:20 2007 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 13:47:20 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Using the ASP.NET 2.0 membership, roles etc. providers in .NET console and WinForms applicatons... In-Reply-To: <000001c8173f$7c0db230$6401a8c0@nant> Message-ID: Thanks Shamil for that piece of information. I was planning for it but sure where to look. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 12:45 PM To: 'Access-D - VB' Subject: [dba-VB] Using the ASP.NET 2.0 membership,roles etc. providers in .NET console and WinForms applicatons... Hi All, Did anybody use the subject feature? If not here is the good news: <<< Using the ASP.NET membership provider in a Windows forms application http://www.theproblemsolver.nl/usingthemembershipproviderinwinforms.htm >>> But even better news is that one can use section in app.config file to define ASP.NET membership, roles (etc.? I did test the first tow only because I need them currently) providers by thus having a centralized (MS SQL) store to keep applications' membership, roles etc. "standard asp.net way" and to use them in all .NET based not only asp.net applications... I didn't find any article describing this useful feature - did you? Thanks. -- Shamil _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From robert at webedb.com Thu Oct 25 15:53:56 2007 From: robert at webedb.com (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 15:53:56 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] Using the ASP.NET 2.0 membership, roles etc. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200710252056.l9PKuphV029092@databaseadvisors.com> The roles/membership stuff is currently available only in ASP.net pages. But, in VS 2008, it will also be available in WinForm/Smart Client applications. Robert At 03:42 PM 10/25/2007, you wrote: >Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 23:44:40 +0400 >From: "Shamil Salakhetdinov" >Subject: [dba-VB] Using the ASP.NET 2.0 membership, roles etc. > providers in .NET console and WinForms applicatons... >To: "'Access-D - VB'" >Message-ID: <000001c8173f$7c0db230$6401a8c0 at nant> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > >Hi All, > >Did anybody use the subject feature? > >If not here is the good news: > ><<< >Using the ASP.NET membership provider in a Windows forms application >http://www.theproblemsolver.nl/usingthemembershipproviderinwinforms.htm > >>> > >But even better news is that one can use section in app.config >file to define ASP.NET membership, roles (etc.? I did test the first tow >only because I need them currently) providers by thus having a centralized >(MS SQL) store to keep applications' membership, roles etc. "standard >asp.net way" and to use them in all .NET based not only asp.net >applications... > >I didn't find any article describing this useful feature - did you? > >Thanks. > >-- From shamil at users.mns.ru Thu Oct 25 16:21:53 2007 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 01:21:53 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Using the ASP.NET 2.0 membership, roles etc. In-Reply-To: <200710252056.l9PKuphV029092@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <000101c8174d$1066c3b0$6401a8c0@nant> Hi Robert, The below test C# code seems to work well in VS2005 console application with app.config defining system.web section with membership and role providers referring MS SQL database defined in connectionStrings section: //+ user public class TestRolesAndUsersInConsoleApp { public static void Test() { try { //' Creating a new user string userName = "user1"; string userName2 = "user2"; string password = "test"; string email = "test at mail.ru"; string passwordQuestion = "Password question"; string passwordQuestionAnswer = "test"; string roleName = "Developers"; System.Web.Security.MembershipUser user = null; MembershipCreateStatus status; if (System.Web.Security.Membership.ValidateUser(userName, password)) { System.Web.Security.Membership.DeleteUser(userName, true); Console.WriteLine("User " + userName + " - deleted."); } if (System.Web.Security.Membership.ValidateUser(userName2, password)) { System.Web.Security.Membership.DeleteUser(userName2, true); Console.WriteLine("User " + userName2 + " - deleted."); } if (System.Web.Security.Roles.RoleExists(roleName)) { System.Web.Security.Roles.DeleteRole(roleName); Console.WriteLine("Role " + roleName + " - deleted."); } user = System.Web.Security.Membership.CreateUser(userName, password, email, passwordQuestion, passwordQuestionAnswer, true, out status); if (status == MembershipCreateStatus.Success) { int aa = 1; } //' Validate a username/passworduserName if (System.Web.Security.Membership.ValidateUser(userName, password)) Console.WriteLine(userName + " - User validated. " + status.ToString() ); else Console.WriteLine(userName + " - User invalid! "); //' Create a new Developer role. //' Add the to the app.config for this to work if (!System.Web.Security.Roles.RoleExists(roleName)) { System.Web.Security.Roles.CreateRole(roleName); } //' Add a new role to a known user. if (!System.Web.Security.Roles.IsUserInRole(userName, roleName)) { System.Web.Security.Roles.AddUserToRole(userName, roleName); } if (!System.Web.Security.Roles.IsUserInRole(userName, roleName)) { Console.WriteLine(userName + " added to role " + roleName); System.Web.Security.Roles.AddUserToRole(userName, roleName); } //' Create a second user with only username/password //' Add the element to the app.config first user = System.Web.Security.Membership.GetUser(userName2); if (user == null) { user = System.Web.Security.Membership.CreateUser(userName2, password); System.Web.Security.Roles.AddUserToRole(userName2, roleName); Console.WriteLine("Created user: " + user.UserName); } //' Set the current application principal information to a known user System.Security.Principal.GenericIdentity identity; RolePrincipal principal; user = System.Web.Security.Membership.GetUser(userName); identity = new System.Security.Principal.GenericIdentity(user.UserName); principal = new System.Web.Security.RolePrincipal(identity); System.Threading.Thread.CurrentPrincipal = principal; //' Check if the current principal is in a specific role Console.Write(System.Threading.Thread.CurrentPrincipal.Identity.Name); if (System.Web.Security.Roles.IsUserInRole(roleName)) Console.WriteLine(" Is a developer."); else Console.WriteLine(" Doesn't write code."); //' Set the current application principal information to another known user user = System.Web.Security.Membership.GetUser(userName2); identity = new GenericIdentity(user.UserName); principal = new RolePrincipal(identity); System.Threading.Thread.CurrentPrincipal = principal; //' Use the principal to check for role information Console.Write(System.Threading.Thread.CurrentPrincipal.Identity.Name); if (System.Threading.Thread.CurrentPrincipal.IsInRole(roleName)) Console.WriteLine(" is a developer."); else Console.WriteLine(" doesn't write code."); //+ delete if (System.Web.Security.Membership.ValidateUser(userName, password)) { System.Web.Security.Membership.DeleteUser(userName, true); Console.WriteLine("User " + userName + " - deleted."); } if (System.Web.Security.Membership.ValidateUser(userName2, password)) { System.Web.Security.Membership.DeleteUser(userName2, true); Console.WriteLine("User " + userName2 + " - deleted."); } if (System.Web.Security.Roles.RoleExists(roleName)) { System.Web.Security.Roles.DeleteRole(roleName); Console.WriteLine("Role " + roleName + " - deleted."); } //- delete Console.ReadLine(); } catch (Exception ex) { Console.WriteLine(ex.Message); } } } //- user -- Shamil P.S. app.config for console app's test class above looks like that (watch line wraps): -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Stewart Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 12:54 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Using the ASP.NET 2.0 membership, roles etc. The roles/membership stuff is currently available only in ASP.net pages. But, in VS 2008, it will also be available in WinForm/Smart Client applications. Robert <<< tail skipped >>> From shamil at users.mns.ru Thu Oct 25 16:56:44 2007 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 01:56:44 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000501c81751$ef7d3850$6401a8c0@nant> <<< - It has delayed calls (aka "closures") >>> Hi Jim, What are these "delayed calls"? - I'm wondering what real projects development tasks they help to solve effectively? I'm nor arguing with you and your friend nor am I trying to start a discussion C# vs. Eiffel - I'm just wondering what are these attractive Eiffel features your friend mentioned, which I'm unaware about, how useful they are in business applications development and how can one simulate them by using e.g. C# or C++/CLI.... "Multiple inheritance" and genericity - well, C# doesn't have multiple inheritance but C# has Generics - aren't they enough for most of the real business tasks programming? If not - then for rhat kind of tasks one can use C++/CLI with all its power of multiple inheritance and C++ templates etc. ? (C++/CLI is not free but it's available in e.g. MS Empower program package, which is not that expensive...) I'd think that "design-by-contract" will not help to reduce that much the bugs without good (unit) test coverage but when good test coverage exists what is the use of "design-by-contract"? "built-in doc that blows away the competition" - what is that? "visual round-trip engineering tools" - what are that? Forward-/reverse-engineering for UML(?) object diagrams... <<< Here is an article from there that helps to show its amazing power: http://www.eiffelroom.com/article/fun_with_generics >>> Jim, C# has Generics with static casting, when one will want to do something more tricky they can well generate and compile and bind C# code and classes and objects instances on-the-fly... ...but IMO this referred article titled "Fun with Generics" doesn't give any real life applications samples where dynamic Generics casting existing in Eiffel (and lacking in C# and Java) - where this dynamic Generics casting is really needed? Does your friend have such samples, which can be looked through? ... Thanks. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 12:32 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Hi Gustav: As promised here is a reply from my friend: Hi, Jim: The ISE Eiffel website is www.eiffel.com. Note that they now have a dual licensing model for EiffelStudio (the stand-alone workbench), so one can use it free for open source software. There is Eiffel for ASP.net which is *free* - we need to check this out! There is also a .net plugin for Visual Studio (EiffelEnvision) that is not too pricey ($US 1799). Why would we be interested in this beast? - The enterprise versions include visual round-trip engineering tools - The language is very high level, so you can get a lot of mileage with very little code - It works with .net and stand-alone on several platforms - It has design-by-contract, which really helps to reduce bugs - It has simple and powerful multiple inheritance and genericity (none of the "interface" crap that passes for o-o in most other languages) - It has delayed calls (aka "closures") - It has a powerful reflection api - It is really easy to learn because it is so straightforward and logical - It has built-in doc that blows away the competition After coding in Java for a year, I am more than ready to jump ship to Eiffel myself! I would recommend also checking out Gnu SmartEiffel - see http://smarteiffel.loria.fr/index.html Another good link: www.eiffelroom.com It has articles, blogs etc on eiffel. Here is an article from there that helps to show its amazing power: http://www.eiffelroom.com/article/fun_with_generics Best regards, Yigal Hope you find this useful. If you need further details that is also easy to provide. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 10:45 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Hi Gustav: I am not qualified to give comment of the Eiffel product myself as all my knowledge is second hand but I have passed your query on to my friend and when he responds I will post his email here. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 10:18 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Hi Jim Interesting. Perhaps your friend could tell us briefly about the highlights of Eiffel? Why is it worth the money? /gustav >>> accessd at shaw.ca 25-10-2007 19:18 >>> Shamil... you are correct in all that. This friend who is strongly recommending Eiffel is planning on leaving his current job soon and as his wife now has an excellent job at the college and he has decided to go freelance. He wants to work with me on projects and is planning on buying a full licensed version.... To make a short story long I may be becoming an Eiffel guru whether I want to or not. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 11:48 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB <<< I was unaware of the product cost.... >>> Hi Jim. Yes, I have just checked the price - it looks unaffordable for small-/middle-size businesses. Yes, there is evaluation version but... I'd currently think that ASP.NET and C#/VB.NET(VS Express) + MS SQL 2005 Express/Access backend DB is the best ever available toolset for Web (and whatever else) real life business applications development... And they are free for download and use, aren't they?... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:46 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I do not usually answer my own emails but... I must qualify my last comments as I was unaware of the product cost which had me fumbling for my oxygen mask as soon as I saw it. Fortunately there are evaluation copies available. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:12 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering that its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the speed of any .Net flavour. A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not impressed with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was required to write extensive notes in the code. His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ Jim _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Oct 26 00:28:54 2007 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 22:28:54 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: <000501c81751$ef7d3850$6401a8c0@nant> Message-ID: <3AFD7B393DB846058FE4CB0DD02A02F4@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Shamil: Comments and replies from my friend and myself are provided inline. >What are these "delayed calls"? - I'm wondering what real projects >development tasks they help to solve effectively? C# 2.0 has these - they are called "anonymous delegates". Most modern languages now have them in one form or another. I recommend googling for "closures in " and just reading about them... (My comment: it is like an enhanced call-back.) >I'm not arguing with you and your friend nor am I trying to start a >discussion C# vs. Eiffel - I'm just wondering what are these attractive >Eiffel features your friend mentioned, which I'm unaware about, how useful >they are in business applications development and how can one simulate them >by using e.g. C# or C++/CLI.... Let's face it - anything you can do in Eiffel can also be done effectively in just about any current language. For me, it comes down to one simple thing: Eiffel provides a more direct path from the concept to the implementation. Take a look at www.eiffel.com and check out the various blurbs and then download the free version and try it out ;0) >"Multiple inheritance" and genericity - well, C# doesn't have multiple >inheritance but C# has Generics - aren't they enough for most of the real >business tasks programming? If not - then for that kind of tasks one can >use C++/CLI with all its power of multiple inheritance and C++ templates >etc. ? >(C++/CLI is not free but it's available in e.g. MS Empower program package, >which is not that expensive...) >I'd think that "design-by-contract" will not help to reduce that much the >bugs without good (unit) test coverage but when good test coverage exists >what is the use of "design-by-contract"? I hear a lot of talk about contracts in the Java community, but the language offers almost zero support for it. Contracts can change the way you think about the code, and are especially useful for doing incremental development. >"built-in doc that blows away the competition" - what is that? For instance, there is the "flat" view of a class, that shows *all* the attributes and methods in one place; each is annotated with the class from which it was inherited. Contrast that with the more common doc, where you have to go on a treasure hunt to figure out all the methods etc, and what was inherited from where. >"visual round-trip engineering tools" - what are that? Again, similar stuff exists for other languages. Eiffel has a tool that lets you diagram your system and then it will build the skeleton for you. Conversely, you can create the diagram from existing code; hence "round-trip". >Forward-/reverse-engineering for UML(?) object diagrams... Not sure what UML <--> Eiffel tools exist.. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 2:57 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB <<< - It has delayed calls (aka "closures") >>> Hi Jim, What are these "delayed calls"? - I'm wondering what real projects development tasks they help to solve effectively? I'm nor arguing with you and your friend nor am I trying to start a discussion C# vs. Eiffel - I'm just wondering what are these attractive Eiffel features your friend mentioned, which I'm unaware about, how useful they are in business applications development and how can one simulate them by using e.g. C# or C++/CLI.... "Multiple inheritance" and genericity - well, C# doesn't have multiple inheritance but C# has Generics - aren't they enough for most of the real business tasks programming? If not - then for rhat kind of tasks one can use C++/CLI with all its power of multiple inheritance and C++ templates etc. ? (C++/CLI is not free but it's available in e.g. MS Empower program package, which is not that expensive...) I'd think that "design-by-contract" will not help to reduce that much the bugs without good (unit) test coverage but when good test coverage exists what is the use of "design-by-contract"? "built-in doc that blows away the competition" - what is that? "visual round-trip engineering tools" - what are that? Forward-/reverse-engineering for UML(?) object diagrams... <<< Here is an article from there that helps to show its amazing power: http://www.eiffelroom.com/article/fun_with_generics >>> Jim, C# has Generics with static casting, when one will want to do something more tricky they can well generate and compile and bind C# code and classes and objects instances on-the-fly... ...but IMO this referred article titled "Fun with Generics" doesn't give any real life applications samples where dynamic Generics casting existing in Eiffel (and lacking in C# and Java) - where this dynamic Generics casting is really needed? Does your friend have such samples, which can be looked through? ... Thanks. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 12:32 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Hi Gustav: As promised here is a reply from my friend: Hi, Jim: The ISE Eiffel website is www.eiffel.com. Note that they now have a dual licensing model for EiffelStudio (the stand-alone workbench), so one can use it free for open source software. There is Eiffel for ASP.net which is *free* - we need to check this out! There is also a .net plugin for Visual Studio (EiffelEnvision) that is not too pricey ($US 1799). Why would we be interested in this beast? - The enterprise versions include visual round-trip engineering tools - The language is very high level, so you can get a lot of mileage with very little code - It works with .net and stand-alone on several platforms - It has design-by-contract, which really helps to reduce bugs - It has simple and powerful multiple inheritance and genericity (none of the "interface" crap that passes for o-o in most other languages) - It has delayed calls (aka "closures") - It has a powerful reflection api - It is really easy to learn because it is so straightforward and logical - It has built-in doc that blows away the competition After coding in Java for a year, I am more than ready to jump ship to Eiffel myself! I would recommend also checking out Gnu SmartEiffel - see http://smarteiffel.loria.fr/index.html Another good link: www.eiffelroom.com It has articles, blogs etc on eiffel. Here is an article from there that helps to show its amazing power: http://www.eiffelroom.com/article/fun_with_generics Best regards, Yigal Hope you find this useful. If you need further details that is also easy to provide. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 10:45 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Hi Gustav: I am not qualified to give comment of the Eiffel product myself as all my knowledge is second hand but I have passed your query on to my friend and when he responds I will post his email here. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 10:18 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Hi Jim Interesting. Perhaps your friend could tell us briefly about the highlights of Eiffel? Why is it worth the money? /gustav >>> accessd at shaw.ca 25-10-2007 19:18 >>> Shamil... you are correct in all that. This friend who is strongly recommending Eiffel is planning on leaving his current job soon and as his wife now has an excellent job at the college and he has decided to go freelance. He wants to work with me on projects and is planning on buying a full licensed version.... To make a short story long I may be becoming an Eiffel guru whether I want to or not. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 11:48 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB <<< I was unaware of the product cost.... >>> Hi Jim. Yes, I have just checked the price - it looks unaffordable for small-/middle-size businesses. Yes, there is evaluation version but... I'd currently think that ASP.NET and C#/VB.NET(VS Express) + MS SQL 2005 Express/Access backend DB is the best ever available toolset for Web (and whatever else) real life business applications development... And they are free for download and use, aren't they?... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:46 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I do not usually answer my own emails but... I must qualify my last comments as I was unaware of the product cost which had me fumbling for my oxygen mask as soon as I saw it. Fortunately there are evaluation copies available. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:12 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering that its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the speed of any .Net flavour. A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not impressed with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was required to write extensive notes in the code. His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ Jim _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at users.mns.ru Fri Oct 26 03:19:42 2007 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 12:19:42 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: <3AFD7B393DB846058FE4CB0DD02A02F4@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <000101c817a8$f5f9c2f0$6401a8c0@nant> Hello Jim, Thank you for your clarifications! <<< C# 2.0 has these - they are called "anonymous delegates". >>> OK, I'm using them in C# - I didn't know they are also called "delayed calls"... <<< Let's face it - anything you can do in Eiffel can also be done effectively in just about any current language. >>> Yes. <<< For me, it comes down to one simple thing: Eiffel provides a more direct path from the concept to the implementation. >>> OK. This is what is called "Design By Contract"? ====================================================================== http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design_by_contract If the invariant AND precondition are true before using the service, then the invariant AND the postcondition will be true after the service has been completed. ====================================================================== <<< Take a look at www.eiffel.com and check out the various blurbs and then download the free version and try it out ;0) >>> Thanks. I might do that but the next year only probably - hopefully I will have some time to play with Eiffel by that time.... <<< I hear a lot of talk about contracts in the Java community, but the language offers almost zero support for it. Contracts can change the way you think about the code, and are especially useful for doing incremental development. >>> OK. For C#/VB.NET such "contracts" is what agile Test Driven Development(TDD)/Domain Driven Developpment (DDD) or its modern variation Behaviour Driven Development (http://behaviour-driven.org/ ) propose to use for incremental development with latter renamed to Feeedback Driven Development by thus highlighting the fact the (next) increment is implemented based on customers' feedback... (We do that in MS Access all the times don't we? (just a rhetoric remark :) ) <<< Again, similar stuff exists for other languages. Eiffel has a tool that lets you diagram your system and then it will build the skeleton for you. Conversely, you can create the diagram from existing code; hence "round-trip". >>> OK. The more I'm being in software development the more I feel that all kind of diagramming could be helpful but only when implemented software architecture is clean - and the latter usually mainly depends on developers' experience - diagramming/CASE tools are very often helpless here to improve the software quality... Just my experience of course... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 9:29 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Hi Shamil: Comments and replies from my friend and myself are provided inline. >What are these "delayed calls"? - I'm wondering what real projects >development tasks they help to solve effectively? C# 2.0 has these - they are called "anonymous delegates". Most modern languages now have them in one form or another. I recommend googling for "closures in " and just reading about them... (My comment: it is like an enhanced call-back.) >I'm not arguing with you and your friend nor am I trying to start a >discussion C# vs. Eiffel - I'm just wondering what are these attractive >Eiffel features your friend mentioned, which I'm unaware about, how useful >they are in business applications development and how can one simulate them >by using e.g. C# or C++/CLI.... Let's face it - anything you can do in Eiffel can also be done effectively in just about any current language. For me, it comes down to one simple thing: Eiffel provides a more direct path from the concept to the implementation. Take a look at www.eiffel.com and check out the various blurbs and then download the free version and try it out ;0) >"Multiple inheritance" and genericity - well, C# doesn't have multiple >inheritance but C# has Generics - aren't they enough for most of the real >business tasks programming? If not - then for that kind of tasks one can >use C++/CLI with all its power of multiple inheritance and C++ templates >etc. ? >(C++/CLI is not free but it's available in e.g. MS Empower program package, >which is not that expensive...) >I'd think that "design-by-contract" will not help to reduce that much the >bugs without good (unit) test coverage but when good test coverage exists >what is the use of "design-by-contract"? I hear a lot of talk about contracts in the Java community, but the language offers almost zero support for it. Contracts can change the way you think about the code, and are especially useful for doing incremental development. >"built-in doc that blows away the competition" - what is that? For instance, there is the "flat" view of a class, that shows *all* the attributes and methods in one place; each is annotated with the class from which it was inherited. Contrast that with the more common doc, where you have to go on a treasure hunt to figure out all the methods etc, and what was inherited from where. >"visual round-trip engineering tools" - what are that? Again, similar stuff exists for other languages. Eiffel has a tool that lets you diagram your system and then it will build the skeleton for you. Conversely, you can create the diagram from existing code; hence "round-trip". >Forward-/reverse-engineering for UML(?) object diagrams... Not sure what UML <--> Eiffel tools exist.. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 2:57 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB <<< - It has delayed calls (aka "closures") >>> Hi Jim, What are these "delayed calls"? - I'm wondering what real projects development tasks they help to solve effectively? I'm nor arguing with you and your friend nor am I trying to start a discussion C# vs. Eiffel - I'm just wondering what are these attractive Eiffel features your friend mentioned, which I'm unaware about, how useful they are in business applications development and how can one simulate them by using e.g. C# or C++/CLI.... "Multiple inheritance" and genericity - well, C# doesn't have multiple inheritance but C# has Generics - aren't they enough for most of the real business tasks programming? If not - then for rhat kind of tasks one can use C++/CLI with all its power of multiple inheritance and C++ templates etc. ? (C++/CLI is not free but it's available in e.g. MS Empower program package, which is not that expensive...) I'd think that "design-by-contract" will not help to reduce that much the bugs without good (unit) test coverage but when good test coverage exists what is the use of "design-by-contract"? "built-in doc that blows away the competition" - what is that? "visual round-trip engineering tools" - what are that? Forward-/reverse-engineering for UML(?) object diagrams... <<< Here is an article from there that helps to show its amazing power: http://www.eiffelroom.com/article/fun_with_generics >>> Jim, C# has Generics with static casting, when one will want to do something more tricky they can well generate and compile and bind C# code and classes and objects instances on-the-fly... ...but IMO this referred article titled "Fun with Generics" doesn't give any real life applications samples where dynamic Generics casting existing in Eiffel (and lacking in C# and Java) - where this dynamic Generics casting is really needed? Does your friend have such samples, which can be looked through? ... Thanks. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 12:32 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Hi Gustav: As promised here is a reply from my friend: Hi, Jim: The ISE Eiffel website is www.eiffel.com. Note that they now have a dual licensing model for EiffelStudio (the stand-alone workbench), so one can use it free for open source software. There is Eiffel for ASP.net which is *free* - we need to check this out! There is also a .net plugin for Visual Studio (EiffelEnvision) that is not too pricey ($US 1799). Why would we be interested in this beast? - The enterprise versions include visual round-trip engineering tools - The language is very high level, so you can get a lot of mileage with very little code - It works with .net and stand-alone on several platforms - It has design-by-contract, which really helps to reduce bugs - It has simple and powerful multiple inheritance and genericity (none of the "interface" crap that passes for o-o in most other languages) - It has delayed calls (aka "closures") - It has a powerful reflection api - It is really easy to learn because it is so straightforward and logical - It has built-in doc that blows away the competition After coding in Java for a year, I am more than ready to jump ship to Eiffel myself! I would recommend also checking out Gnu SmartEiffel - see http://smarteiffel.loria.fr/index.html Another good link: www.eiffelroom.com It has articles, blogs etc on eiffel. Here is an article from there that helps to show its amazing power: http://www.eiffelroom.com/article/fun_with_generics Best regards, Yigal Hope you find this useful. If you need further details that is also easy to provide. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 10:45 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Hi Gustav: I am not qualified to give comment of the Eiffel product myself as all my knowledge is second hand but I have passed your query on to my friend and when he responds I will post his email here. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 10:18 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Hi Jim Interesting. Perhaps your friend could tell us briefly about the highlights of Eiffel? Why is it worth the money? /gustav >>> accessd at shaw.ca 25-10-2007 19:18 >>> Shamil... you are correct in all that. This friend who is strongly recommending Eiffel is planning on leaving his current job soon and as his wife now has an excellent job at the college and he has decided to go freelance. He wants to work with me on projects and is planning on buying a full licensed version.... To make a short story long I may be becoming an Eiffel guru whether I want to or not. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 11:48 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB <<< I was unaware of the product cost.... >>> Hi Jim. Yes, I have just checked the price - it looks unaffordable for small-/middle-size businesses. Yes, there is evaluation version but... I'd currently think that ASP.NET and C#/VB.NET(VS Express) + MS SQL 2005 Express/Access backend DB is the best ever available toolset for Web (and whatever else) real life business applications development... And they are free for download and use, aren't they?... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:46 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I do not usually answer my own emails but... I must qualify my last comments as I was unaware of the product cost which had me fumbling for my oxygen mask as soon as I saw it. Fortunately there are evaluation copies available. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:12 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering that its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the speed of any .Net flavour. A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not impressed with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was required to write extensive notes in the code. His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ Jim _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue Oct 30 10:14:28 2007 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 16:14:28 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] VS Printer dialogue error Message-ID: Hi all A VB.Net app is running at a client. The developer is gone and no source code is at hand. One machine can print, the others can't. On those the (localized) error message below is shown when the print dialog should open. Any hints what could be causing this? Could it be a missing file (the parameter), but which? The machines all run WinXP Pro. /gustav ************** Exception text ************** System.ArgumentException: Parameter is invalid. ved System.Drawing.Bitmap..ctor(String filename) ved VRS_v2_0.Print.PrintLabelDBAccess..ctor() ved VRS_v2_0.MainForm.MenuItem1_Click(Object sender, EventArgs e) ved System.Windows.Forms.MenuItem.OnClick(EventArgs e) ved System.Windows.Forms.MenuItem.MenuItemData.Execute() ved System.Windows.Forms.Command.Invoke() ved System.Windows.Forms.Command.DispatchID(Int32 id) ved System.Windows.Forms.Control.WmCommand(Message& m) ved System.Windows.Forms.Control.WndProc(Message& m) ved System.Windows.Forms.ScrollableControl.WndProc(Message& m) ved System.Windows.Forms.ContainerControl.WndProc(Message& m) ved System.Windows.Forms.Form.WndProc(Message& m) ved System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.OnMessage(Message& m) ved System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.WndProc(Message& m) ved System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam) ************** Loaded assemblies ************** mscorlib Assemblyversion: 2.0.0.0 Win32-version: 2.0.50727.832 (QFE.050727-8300) CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/Microsoft.NET/Framework/v2.0.50727/mscorlib.dll ---------------------------------------- VRS_v2.0 Assemblyversion: 1.0.2218.22936 Win32-version: 1.0.2218.22936 CodeBase: file:///C:/Programmer/VRS/VRS_v2.0.exe ---------------------------------------- System.Windows.Forms Assemblyversion: 2.0.0.0 Win32-version: 2.0.50727.832 (QFE.050727-8300) CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Windows.Forms/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Windows.Forms.dll ---------------------------------------- System Assemblyversion: 2.0.0.0 Win32-version: 2.0.50727.832 (QFE.050727-8300) CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.dll ---------------------------------------- System.Drawing Assemblyversion: 2.0.0.0 Win32-version: 2.0.50727.832 (QFE.050727-8300) CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Drawing/2.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Drawing.dll ---------------------------------------- System.Windows.Forms.resources Assemblyversion: 2.0.0.0 Win32-version: 2.0.50727.42 (RTM.050727-4200) CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Windows.Forms.resources/2.0.0.0_da_b77a5c561934e089/System.Windows.Forms.resources.dll ---------------------------------------- System.Data Assemblyversion: 2.0.0.0 Win32-version: 2.0.50727.832 (QFE.050727-8300) CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_32/System.Data/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Data.dll ---------------------------------------- Microsoft.VisualBasic Assemblyversion: 8.0.0.0 Win32-version: 8.0.50727.42 (RTM.050727-4200) CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/Microsoft.VisualBasic/8.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/Microsoft.VisualBasic.dll ---------------------------------------- System.Transactions Assemblyversion: 2.0.0.0 Win32-version: 2.0.50727.832 (QFE.050727-8300) CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_32/System.Transactions/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Transactions.dll ---------------------------------------- System.EnterpriseServices Assemblyversion: 2.0.0.0 Win32-version: 2.0.50727.832 (QFE.050727-8300) CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_32/System.EnterpriseServices/2.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.EnterpriseServices.dll ---------------------------------------- System.Configuration Assemblyversion: 2.0.0.0 Win32-version: 2.0.50727.832 (QFE.050727-8300) CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Configuration/2.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Configuration.dll ---------------------------------------- System.Xml Assemblyversion: 2.0.0.0 Win32-version: 2.0.50727.832 (QFE.050727-8300) CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Xml/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Xml.dll ---------------------------------------- System.Drawing.resources Assemblyversion: 2.0.0.0 Win32-version: 2.0.50727.42 (RTM.050727-4200) CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Drawing.resources/2.0.0.0_da_b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Drawing.resources.dll ---------------------------------------- mscorlib.resources Assemblyversion: 2.0.0.0 Win32-version: 2.0.50727.832 (QFE.050727-8300) CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/Microsoft.NET/Framework/v2.0.50727/mscorlib.dll ---------------------------------------- From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Oct 30 10:23:58 2007 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 08:23:58 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] VS Printer dialogue error In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Just a SWAG, but given the "Parameter is invalid" message, I wonder if the mapping to the printer is different for those client machines. Assuming this is one or more network printers, that is. If the printers are local, no ideas. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 8:14 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] VS Printer dialogue error Hi all A VB.Net app is running at a client. The developer is gone and no source code is at hand. One machine can print, the others can't. On those the (localized) error message below is shown when the print dialog should open. Any hints what could be causing this? Could it be a missing file (the parameter), but which? The machines all run WinXP Pro. /gustav ************** Exception text ************** System.ArgumentException: Parameter is invalid. ved System.Drawing.Bitmap..ctor(String filename) ved VRS_v2_0.Print.PrintLabelDBAccess..ctor() ved VRS_v2_0.MainForm.MenuItem1_Click(Object sender, EventArgs e) ved System.Windows.Forms.MenuItem.OnClick(EventArgs e) ved System.Windows.Forms.MenuItem.MenuItemData.Execute() ved System.Windows.Forms.Command.Invoke() ved System.Windows.Forms.Command.DispatchID(Int32 id) ved System.Windows.Forms.Control.WmCommand(Message& m) ved System.Windows.Forms.Control.WndProc(Message& m) ved System.Windows.Forms.ScrollableControl.WndProc(Message& m) ved System.Windows.Forms.ContainerControl.WndProc(Message& m) ved System.Windows.Forms.Form.WndProc(Message& m) ved System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.OnMessage(Message& m) ved System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.WndProc(Message& m) ved System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam) From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue Oct 30 10:46:49 2007 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 16:46:49 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] VS Printer dialogue error Message-ID: Hi Charlotte I did check that - perhaps the app requested a specific printer to be installed? But you gave me an idea. Suddenly I recalled the fabulous old util from SysInternals: File Monitor for Windows NT/9x v4.34 Once loaded, I ran the app to pop the error and, voila, this line (wrapped here) showed up: 16:30:01 VRS_v2.0.exe:1932 IRP_MJ_CREATE C:\Programmer\VRS\prconnect.bmp FILE NOT FOUND Attributes: Any Options: Open Then I located the bmp file, copied it to the VRS folder and ran the app with no errors! Thanks Charlotte and SysInternals (now bought by the all mighty you know who). /gustav >>> cfoust at infostatsystems.com 30-10-2007 16:23 >>> Just a SWAG, but given the "Parameter is invalid" message, I wonder if the mapping to the printer is different for those client machines. Assuming this is one or more network printers, that is. If the printers are local, no ideas. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 8:14 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] VS Printer dialogue error Hi all A VB.Net app is running at a client. The developer is gone and no source code is at hand. One machine can print, the others can't. On those the (localized) error message below is shown when the print dialog should open. Any hints what could be causing this? Could it be a missing file (the parameter), but which? The machines all run WinXP Pro. /gustav From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Tue Oct 30 16:33:36 2007 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 10:33:36 +1300 Subject: [dba-VB] Web Developer wanted VB Dot Net Message-ID: <20071030213304.JVIJ18083.fep03.xtra.co.nz@Dalyn.dalyn.co.nz> Group, I have an access program that has been converted to a Web site written using Visual Studio 2003 and VB.Net. The conversion was done by another developer as a favour for the company that owns the software. We are now looking for a web developer that can do the following: 1) Continue to maintain the web version. This should be basic maintenance of the screens. The database is SQL2000 and I can maintain this. The reports are developed using DataDynamics Active Report. I can also maintain these. What I can't do is the actual web site maintenance. 2) The company has another project that they want converted from a desk top version to the web. This project would involve interaction with the developer of the desk top version - he is also not familiar with web development. The company that we would be working for is based in Chicago. However, I have been developing for them for over 10 years and I am in NZ. If you are interested in more information please email me off line with a phone number and a suitable time to call (preferably your afternoon if you are in America due to the time difference) Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd Wellington, New Zealand From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Oct 5 09:53:03 2007 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 07:53:03 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Has Data in .Net Message-ID: Here's a routine I came up with to quickly answer the question of whether any data exists in a record, outside of the key fields. We populate a field with a new record if there are none, but we want to throw it away if they don't enter any data. CurrentRow is a function that returns a datarowview of the current record in a single record form using the binding context. Private Function HasData() As Boolean ' Charlotte Foust 03-Oct-07 Dim blnData As Boolean = False Dim intKeys As Integer = 2 Try Dim flds() As Object = Me.CurrentRow.ItemArray ' skip the PK columns, which are filled by default For i As Integer = intKeys To flds.GetLength(0) - 1 If Not IsDBNull(flds(i)) Then blnData = True Exit For End If Next Catch ex As Exception UIExceptionHandler.ProcessException(ex) End Try Return blnData End Function This is in a subform module, but it could pretty easily be converted to a public function in a shared class. Charlotte Foust From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Oct 6 08:14:53 2007 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 09:14:53 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] [AccessD] Importing XML into a database In-Reply-To: <000401c807a0$d765e480$6401a8c0@nant> References: <000201c80789$8a873590$657aa8c0@M90> <000401c807a0$d765e480$6401a8c0@nant> Message-ID: <001701c8081a$e2872a20$657aa8c0@M90> Shamil, First of all, thanks for your assistance on this. I am so new to VB.Net that I would never get there on my own, but given example code I can usually adapt it to my needs. OK, here is the adaptation I am trying. The concept is that I create a class which knows how to serialize an object (class). The following function performs that process using XMLSerializer to serialize the current class onto a stream passed in. Public Function mSave(ByVal stream As Stream) As Boolean Dim serializer As New XmlSerializer(Me.GetType) Try serializer.Serialize(stream, Me) Return True Catch ex As Exception Return False End Try End Function Now, here is your code for using a memory stream as you called it. This mSave method uses a connection string and a table name parameter. You set up a memory stream and call the mSave method shown above to serialize the object into that stream. Next your create a data set which reads the xml data back out of the stream, which creates a table in the data set using the xml file element names as field names in the resulting table (very nice). Finally the "Using" block of code writes the data now in the data set out to a table in the database. I left in the two lines of code (commented out the original, then modified in a second copy) where I assume I need to substitute in my passed in table name for your hard coded table names. Public Function mSave(ByVal lcnn As String, ByVal strTblName As String) As Int16 Try ' serialize DataSet data into memory stream ' (use your custom object instance here) Dim myStream As System.IO.Stream = New IO.MemoryStream() mSave(myStream) ' read memory stream's data into dataset Dim ds As New DataSet() myStream.Position = 0 ds.ReadXml(myStream) ' write DataSet's data into database table Using cnn As New OleDbConnection(lcnn) 'Dim cmd As New OleDbCommand("select * from [LogData]") Dim cmd As New OleDbCommand("select * from [" & strTblName & "]") Dim adapter As New OleDbDataAdapter(cmd) Dim builder As New OleDbCommandBuilder(adapter) cnn.Open() cmd.CommandType = CommandType.Text cmd.Connection = cnn 'adapter.Update(ds, "clsLogData") adapter.Update(ds, strTblName ) cnn.Close() End Using Return 0 Catch ex As Exception Console.WriteLine(ex.Message) Return -1 End Try End Function So with these two methods, I build a clsSerializableData. This is inherited by any class that I want to be able to write (and read back in) its data. Assuming this works (I haven't yet tested it) I now can write any class' data to a file on disk (using a different existing mSave overload) or to table (using this new mSave overload). Is overload the right term here? Once I get this functioning I need to go back and generate the matching mLoad() method. I already have one to load the class from an xml disk file. Now I have to build one to load it from an existing table in the database. I will let you know how the testing goes. I am curious what the data types will be for this table. The data types of the class are known to the xmlSerializer but the data type does not show up in the XML file produced from the stream. Is it possible to tell the serializer to include data types in the xml file? Is this part of the XML standard? At any rate, again, thanks a million for your assistance on this Shamil. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 6:41 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing XML into a database Hello John, Yes, I think you can use MemoryStream - here is a sample code (watch line wraps): Imports System.Data Imports System.Data.OleDb Imports System.Xml.Serialization Module TestImportXmlFile Sub Main() Dim rootDir As String = "E:\Temp\XML\" Dim accDbFileName As String = "testXML.mdb" Try Dim accConnection As String = _ "Provider=Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0;Data Source=" + _ rootDir + accDbFileName ' simulate custom object instance by ' using DataSet instance, which data ' is loaded from external XMl file Dim xmlFileFullPath As String = rootDir + "clsLogData.xml" Dim textImportStream As System.IO.StreamReader = _ New IO.StreamReader(xmlFileFullPath) Dim dsObjectSimulator As New DataSet() dsObjectSimulator.ReadXml(textImportStream, _ XmlReadMode.InferSchema) ' serialize DataSet data into memory stream ' (use your custom object instance here) Dim myStream As System.IO.Stream = New IO.MemoryStream() mSave(myStream, dsObjectSimulator) ' read memory stream's data into dataset Dim ds As New DataSet() myStream.Position = 0 ds.ReadXml(myStream) ' write DataSet's data into database table Using cnn As New OleDbConnection(accConnection) Dim cmd As New OleDbCommand("select * from [LogData]") Dim adapter As New OleDbDataAdapter(cmd) Dim builder As New OleDbCommandBuilder(adapter) cnn.Open() cmd.CommandType = CommandType.Text cmd.Connection = cnn adapter.Update(ds, "clsLogData") cnn.Close() End Using Catch ex As Exception Console.WriteLine(ex.Message) End Try End Sub 'Public Function mSave(ByVal stream As IO.Stream, ByVal t As Type) As Boolean Public Function mSave(ByVal stream As IO.Stream, ByVal t As Object) As Boolean Dim serializer As New XmlSerializer(t.GetType()) Try serializer.Serialize(stream, t) Return True Catch ex As Exception Return False End Try End Function End Module -- Shamil From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Oct 8 07:07:44 2007 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 08:07:44 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - ADO - add table to SQL Server Message-ID: <002a01c809a3$d5f76a60$657aa8c0@M90> Does ADO have methods to cause a table built up the dataset to be saved to SQL Server if the table is not already in SQL Server? I am reading XML into a dataset, but the table created does not already exist in SQL Server. I need to cause the table to be written to a specified database in SQL Server. Is this possible? I have been googling around but am finding nothing like this. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com From bheid at sc.rr.com Mon Oct 8 21:16:41 2007 From: bheid at sc.rr.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 22:16:41 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - ADO - add table to SQL Server In-Reply-To: <002a01c809a3$d5f76a60$657aa8c0@M90> References: <002a01c809a3$d5f76a60$657aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: <008901c80a1a$6e744440$4b5cccc0$@rr.com> John, Yes it is easy. Look up "Create Table". Create Table ref: http://www.codeproject.com/useritems/adodotnetprogrammatically.asp Example: http://www.codeproject.com/useritems/adodotnetprogrammatically.asp Bobby -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 8:08 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - ADO - add table to SQL Server Does ADO have methods to cause a table built up the dataset to be saved to SQL Server if the table is not already in SQL Server? I am reading XML into a dataset, but the table created does not already exist in SQL Server. I need to cause the table to be written to a specified database in SQL Server. Is this possible? I have been googling around but am finding nothing like this. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Oct 9 07:15:07 2007 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 08:15:07 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects Message-ID: <002a01c80a6e$089964d0$657aa8c0@M90> I am developing modules that I need to use in various projects. This includes things like a status form with specific controls and code to display status updates from operations, and base classes for making another class serializable. Stuff like that. I need to know what the process is for making such objects accessible to other projects such that as I add capabilities and fix bugs, such enhancements are available to all the other projects that use these things. IOW, something similar to an MDA in Access. I know that it is possible, I just do not understand the mechanics of referencing the common objects. Could someone give me a detailed "step by step" of how to do it, what to click, select this menu item, click this etc. from inside of the referencing project. Or alternately a web article that discusses this stuff. TIA, John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Oct 9 07:35:12 2007 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 08:35:12 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects In-Reply-To: <002a01c80a6e$089964d0$657aa8c0@M90> References: <002a01c80a6e$089964d0$657aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: <002b01c80a70$d671b450$657aa8c0@M90> Guys, Once I discovered the correct keywords I started finding web articles on this stuff. Any words of wisdom you guys might have is still much appreciated. Thanks, John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 8:15 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects I am developing modules that I need to use in various projects. This includes things like a status form with specific controls and code to display status updates from operations, and base classes for making another class serializable. Stuff like that. I need to know what the process is for making such objects accessible to other projects such that as I add capabilities and fix bugs, such enhancements are available to all the other projects that use these things. IOW, something similar to an MDA in Access. I know that it is possible, I just do not understand the mechanics of referencing the common objects. Could someone give me a detailed "step by step" of how to do it, what to click, select this menu item, click this etc. from inside of the referencing project. Or alternately a web article that discusses this stuff. TIA, John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue Oct 9 07:38:50 2007 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2007 14:38:50 +0200 Subject: [dba-VB] Amazon Mechanical Turk SDK for .NET Message-ID: Hi all If you are experimenting with web services, Amazon is a good place to visit. Now an open-source SDK for .Net is available: http://developer.amazonwebservices.com/connect/entry.jspa?externalID=923 /gustav From mikedorism at verizon.net Tue Oct 9 09:51:25 2007 From: mikedorism at verizon.net (Doris Manning) Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2007 10:51:25 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects In-Reply-To: <002a01c80a6e$089964d0$657aa8c0@M90> References: <002a01c80a6e$089964d0$657aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: <000601c80a83$de71e9a0$2f01a8c0@Kermit> John, When you add an existing item to a project and press the OPEN button, you are actually importing the module from its existing location into the project location. If you click on the small black arrow on the far right of the OPEN button, you have a "Link file" choice. Choosing this option adds the module to your project but keeps it in its existing location. Any projects that link to it will instantly inherit the changes but will need to be rebuilt so the executable picks up the changes. Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 8:15 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects I am developing modules that I need to use in various projects. This includes things like a status form with specific controls and code to display status updates from operations, and base classes for making another class serializable. Stuff like that. I need to know what the process is for making such objects accessible to other projects such that as I add capabilities and fix bugs, such enhancements are available to all the other projects that use these things. IOW, something similar to an MDA in Access. I know that it is possible, I just do not understand the mechanics of referencing the common objects. Could someone give me a detailed "step by step" of how to do it, what to click, select this menu item, click this etc. from inside of the referencing project. Or alternately a web article that discusses this stuff. TIA, John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Oct 10 08:19:33 2007 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 09:19:33 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects In-Reply-To: <000601c80a83$de71e9a0$2f01a8c0@Kermit> References: <002a01c80a6e$089964d0$657aa8c0@M90> <000601c80a83$de71e9a0$2f01a8c0@Kermit> Message-ID: <009301c80b40$3321e150$657aa8c0@M90> Thanks Doris, I will give that a try. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doris Manning Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 10:51 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects John, When you add an existing item to a project and press the OPEN button, you are actually importing the module from its existing location into the project location. If you click on the small black arrow on the far right of the OPEN button, you have a "Link file" choice. Choosing this option adds the module to your project but keeps it in its existing location. Any projects that link to it will instantly inherit the changes but will need to be rebuilt so the executable picks up the changes. Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 8:15 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects I am developing modules that I need to use in various projects. This includes things like a status form with specific controls and code to display status updates from operations, and base classes for making another class serializable. Stuff like that. I need to know what the process is for making such objects accessible to other projects such that as I add capabilities and fix bugs, such enhancements are available to all the other projects that use these things. IOW, something similar to an MDA in Access. I know that it is possible, I just do not understand the mechanics of referencing the common objects. Could someone give me a detailed "step by step" of how to do it, what to click, select this menu item, click this etc. from inside of the referencing project. Or alternately a web article that discusses this stuff. TIA, John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ebarro at verizon.net Wed Oct 10 12:47:09 2007 From: ebarro at verizon.net (Eric Barro) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 10:47:09 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects In-Reply-To: <002b01c80a70$d671b450$657aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: <0JPP00I4NIQIMBZ0@vms044.mailsrvcs.net> John, You can create user-defined controls in .NET that you can load into your projects and even dock into your VS.NET toolbar along with the rest of the built-in controls so that all you have to do is add a reference to the DLL that defines the control and then drag and drop the control into your forms. Eric -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 5:35 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects Guys, Once I discovered the correct keywords I started finding web articles on this stuff. Any words of wisdom you guys might have is still much appreciated. Thanks, John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 8:15 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects I am developing modules that I need to use in various projects. This includes things like a status form with specific controls and code to display status updates from operations, and base classes for making another class serializable. Stuff like that. I need to know what the process is for making such objects accessible to other projects such that as I add capabilities and fix bugs, such enhancements are available to all the other projects that use these things. IOW, something similar to an MDA in Access. I know that it is possible, I just do not understand the mechanics of referencing the common objects. Could someone give me a detailed "step by step" of how to do it, what to click, select this menu item, click this etc. from inside of the referencing project. Or alternately a web article that discusses this stuff. TIA, John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.6/1061 - Release Date: 10/10/2007 8:43 AM From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Oct 11 07:38:45 2007 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 08:38:45 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects In-Reply-To: <000601c80a83$de71e9a0$2f01a8c0@Kermit> References: <002a01c80a6e$089964d0$657aa8c0@M90> <000601c80a83$de71e9a0$2f01a8c0@Kermit> Message-ID: <004701c80c03$aad54d40$657aa8c0@M90> Doris, OK, I finally figured out how to do what you are talking about. It is actually the "ADD" button which threw me for awhile, I kept going back and forth searching diligently for this "OPEN" button. Anyway, that is handled. So if I open a linked file, I am opening the actual source out in the lib and if I edit it, the changes are stored in that module in that lib? This works for me! John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doris Manning Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 10:51 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects John, When you add an existing item to a project and press the OPEN button, you are actually importing the module from its existing location into the project location. If you click on the small black arrow on the far right of the OPEN button, you have a "Link file" choice. Choosing this option adds the module to your project but keeps it in its existing location. Any projects that link to it will instantly inherit the changes but will need to be rebuilt so the executable picks up the changes. Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 8:15 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects I am developing modules that I need to use in various projects. This includes things like a status form with specific controls and code to display status updates from operations, and base classes for making another class serializable. Stuff like that. I need to know what the process is for making such objects accessible to other projects such that as I add capabilities and fix bugs, such enhancements are available to all the other projects that use these things. IOW, something similar to an MDA in Access. I know that it is possible, I just do not understand the mechanics of referencing the common objects. Could someone give me a detailed "step by step" of how to do it, what to click, select this menu item, click this etc. from inside of the referencing project. Or alternately a web article that discusses this stuff. TIA, John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Oct 11 09:57:56 2007 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 07:57:56 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects In-Reply-To: <004701c80c03$aad54d40$657aa8c0@M90> References: <002a01c80a6e$089964d0$657aa8c0@M90><000601c80a83$de71e9a0$2f01a8c0@Kermit> <004701c80c03$aad54d40$657aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: You're talking about two different things. Open is a menu item under the file menu. That's what Doris was referring to, I think. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 5:39 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects Doris, OK, I finally figured out how to do what you are talking about. It is actually the "ADD" button which threw me for awhile, I kept going back and forth searching diligently for this "OPEN" button. Anyway, that is handled. So if I open a linked file, I am opening the actual source out in the lib and if I edit it, the changes are stored in that module in that lib? This works for me! John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doris Manning Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 10:51 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects John, When you add an existing item to a project and press the OPEN button, you are actually importing the module from its existing location into the project location. If you click on the small black arrow on the far right of the OPEN button, you have a "Link file" choice. Choosing this option adds the module to your project but keeps it in its existing location. Any projects that link to it will instantly inherit the changes but will need to be rebuilt so the executable picks up the changes. Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 8:15 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects I am developing modules that I need to use in various projects. This includes things like a status form with specific controls and code to display status updates from operations, and base classes for making another class serializable. Stuff like that. I need to know what the process is for making such objects accessible to other projects such that as I add capabilities and fix bugs, such enhancements are available to all the other projects that use these things. IOW, something similar to an MDA in Access. I know that it is possible, I just do not understand the mechanics of referencing the common objects. Could someone give me a detailed "step by step" of how to do it, what to click, select this menu item, click this etc. from inside of the referencing project. Or alternately a web article that discusses this stuff. TIA, John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Oct 11 11:12:25 2007 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 12:12:25 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects In-Reply-To: References: <002a01c80a6e$089964d0$657aa8c0@M90><000601c80a83$de71e9a0$2f01a8c0@Kermit><004701c80c03$aad54d40$657aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: <005d01c80c21$83d2bf20$657aa8c0@M90> Hmmm... If you "add existing" a file Find dialog opens. At the bottom of THAT is an ADD button which has a little drop down to the right of it. If you drop that down a "LINK option". If you select "LINK" then it adds the module as a link instead of importing it directly into the project. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 10:58 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects You're talking about two different things. Open is a menu item under the file menu. That's what Doris was referring to, I think. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 5:39 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects Doris, OK, I finally figured out how to do what you are talking about. It is actually the "ADD" button which threw me for awhile, I kept going back and forth searching diligently for this "OPEN" button. Anyway, that is handled. So if I open a linked file, I am opening the actual source out in the lib and if I edit it, the changes are stored in that module in that lib? This works for me! John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doris Manning Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 10:51 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects John, When you add an existing item to a project and press the OPEN button, you are actually importing the module from its existing location into the project location. If you click on the small black arrow on the far right of the OPEN button, you have a "Link file" choice. Choosing this option adds the module to your project but keeps it in its existing location. Any projects that link to it will instantly inherit the changes but will need to be rebuilt so the executable picks up the changes. Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 8:15 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects I am developing modules that I need to use in various projects. This includes things like a status form with specific controls and code to display status updates from operations, and base classes for making another class serializable. Stuff like that. I need to know what the process is for making such objects accessible to other projects such that as I add capabilities and fix bugs, such enhancements are available to all the other projects that use these things. IOW, something similar to an MDA in Access. I know that it is possible, I just do not understand the mechanics of referencing the common objects. Could someone give me a detailed "step by step" of how to do it, what to click, select this menu item, click this etc. from inside of the referencing project. Or alternately a web article that discusses this stuff. TIA, John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Oct 11 11:15:40 2007 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 09:15:40 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects In-Reply-To: <005d01c80c21$83d2bf20$657aa8c0@M90> References: <002a01c80a6e$089964d0$657aa8c0@M90><000601c80a83$de71e9a0$2f01a8c0@Kermit><004701c80c03$aad54d40$657aa8c0@M90> <005d01c80c21$83d2bf20$657aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: But I thought you were trying to add your other project to a solution, not just a specific class. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 9:12 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects Hmmm... If you "add existing" a file Find dialog opens. At the bottom of THAT is an ADD button which has a little drop down to the right of it. If you drop that down a "LINK option". If you select "LINK" then it adds the module as a link instead of importing it directly into the project. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 10:58 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects You're talking about two different things. Open is a menu item under the file menu. That's what Doris was referring to, I think. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 5:39 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects Doris, OK, I finally figured out how to do what you are talking about. It is actually the "ADD" button which threw me for awhile, I kept going back and forth searching diligently for this "OPEN" button. Anyway, that is handled. So if I open a linked file, I am opening the actual source out in the lib and if I edit it, the changes are stored in that module in that lib? This works for me! John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doris Manning Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 10:51 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects John, When you add an existing item to a project and press the OPEN button, you are actually importing the module from its existing location into the project location. If you click on the small black arrow on the far right of the OPEN button, you have a "Link file" choice. Choosing this option adds the module to your project but keeps it in its existing location. Any projects that link to it will instantly inherit the changes but will need to be rebuilt so the executable picks up the changes. Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 8:15 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects I am developing modules that I need to use in various projects. This includes things like a status form with specific controls and code to display status updates from operations, and base classes for making another class serializable. Stuff like that. I need to know what the process is for making such objects accessible to other projects such that as I add capabilities and fix bugs, such enhancements are available to all the other projects that use these things. IOW, something similar to an MDA in Access. I know that it is possible, I just do not understand the mechanics of referencing the common objects. Could someone give me a detailed "step by step" of how to do it, what to click, select this menu item, click this etc. from inside of the referencing project. Or alternately a web article that discusses this stuff. TIA, John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Oct 11 11:48:04 2007 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 12:48:04 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects In-Reply-To: References: <002a01c80a6e$089964d0$657aa8c0@M90><000601c80a83$de71e9a0$2f01a8c0@Kermit><004701c80c03$aad54d40$657aa8c0@M90><005d01c80c21$83d2bf20$657aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: <005f01c80c26$7e58d2a0$657aa8c0@M90> Charlotte, This conversation is like trying to discuss a specific switch on the space shuttle. I don't know enough to know what I want to do. I have modules that I am developing or have found out there that I want to use in various projects. I do not want those modules embedded in each project precisely because of maintenance issues. In my terminology that is a library. ATM this is really a "library" of classes / modules that will be shared between projects. Understand that I do not truly understand "project" and "solution". A project is where poor people live and a solution is chemicals mixed in a liquid. Alternatively Project and Solution are terms used by much more advanced .Net programmers used to confuse beginners and establish respective positions in the programming hierarchy. Take it from there. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 12:16 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects But I thought you were trying to add your other project to a solution, not just a specific class. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 9:12 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects Hmmm... If you "add existing" a file Find dialog opens. At the bottom of THAT is an ADD button which has a little drop down to the right of it. If you drop that down a "LINK option". If you select "LINK" then it adds the module as a link instead of importing it directly into the project. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 10:58 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects You're talking about two different things. Open is a menu item under the file menu. That's what Doris was referring to, I think. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 5:39 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects Doris, OK, I finally figured out how to do what you are talking about. It is actually the "ADD" button which threw me for awhile, I kept going back and forth searching diligently for this "OPEN" button. Anyway, that is handled. So if I open a linked file, I am opening the actual source out in the lib and if I edit it, the changes are stored in that module in that lib? This works for me! John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doris Manning Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 10:51 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects John, When you add an existing item to a project and press the OPEN button, you are actually importing the module from its existing location into the project location. If you click on the small black arrow on the far right of the OPEN button, you have a "Link file" choice. Choosing this option adds the module to your project but keeps it in its existing location. Any projects that link to it will instantly inherit the changes but will need to be rebuilt so the executable picks up the changes. Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 8:15 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects I am developing modules that I need to use in various projects. This includes things like a status form with specific controls and code to display status updates from operations, and base classes for making another class serializable. Stuff like that. I need to know what the process is for making such objects accessible to other projects such that as I add capabilities and fix bugs, such enhancements are available to all the other projects that use these things. IOW, something similar to an MDA in Access. I know that it is possible, I just do not understand the mechanics of referencing the common objects. Could someone give me a detailed "step by step" of how to do it, what to click, select this menu item, click this etc. from inside of the referencing project. Or alternately a web article that discusses this stuff. TIA, John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Oct 11 11:56:27 2007 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 18:56:27 +0200 Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects Message-ID: Hi John et al To add to the confusing, I see no "Link" option anywhere; _if_ the Open button has an dropdown arrow juxtaposed, it offers "Open" or "Open with ..." only. /gustav >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 11-10-2007 18:48 >>> Charlotte, This conversation is like trying to discuss a specific switch on the space shuttle. I don't know enough to know what I want to do. I have modules that I am developing or have found out there that I want to use in various projects. I do not want those modules embedded in each project precisely because of maintenance issues. In my terminology that is a library. ATM this is really a "library" of classes / modules that will be shared between projects. Understand that I do not truly understand "project" and "solution". A project is where poor people live and a solution is chemicals mixed in a liquid. Alternatively Project and Solution are terms used by much more advanced .Net programmers used to confuse beginners and establish respective positions in the programming hierarchy. Take it from there. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 12:16 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects But I thought you were trying to add your other project to a solution, not just a specific class. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 9:12 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects Hmmm... If you "add existing" a file Find dialog opens. At the bottom of THAT is an ADD button which has a little drop down to the right of it. If you drop that down a "LINK option". If you select "LINK" then it adds the module as a link instead of importing it directly into the project. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 10:58 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects You're talking about two different things. Open is a menu item under the file menu. That's what Doris was referring to, I think. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 5:39 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects Doris, OK, I finally figured out how to do what you are talking about. It is actually the "ADD" button which threw me for awhile, I kept going back and forth searching diligently for this "OPEN" button. Anyway, that is handled. So if I open a linked file, I am opening the actual source out in the lib and if I edit it, the changes are stored in that module in that lib? This works for me! John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doris Manning Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 10:51 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects John, When you add an existing item to a project and press the OPEN button, you are actually importing the module from its existing location into the project location. If you click on the small black arrow on the far right of the OPEN button, you have a "Link file" choice. Choosing this option adds the module to your project but keeps it in its existing location. Any projects that link to it will instantly inherit the changes but will need to be rebuilt so the executable picks up the changes. Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 8:15 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects I am developing modules that I need to use in various projects. This includes things like a status form with specific controls and code to display status updates from operations, and base classes for making another class serializable. Stuff like that. I need to know what the process is for making such objects accessible to other projects such that as I add capabilities and fix bugs, such enhancements are available to all the other projects that use these things. IOW, something similar to an MDA in Access. I know that it is possible, I just do not understand the mechanics of referencing the common objects. Could someone give me a detailed "step by step" of how to do it, what to click, select this menu item, click this etc. from inside of the referencing project. Or alternately a web article that discusses this stuff. TIA, John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Oct 11 11:56:50 2007 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 09:56:50 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects In-Reply-To: <005f01c80c26$7e58d2a0$657aa8c0@M90> References: <002a01c80a6e$089964d0$657aa8c0@M90><000601c80a83$de71e9a0$2f01a8c0@Kermit><004701c80c03$aad54d40$657aa8c0@M90><005d01c80c21$83d2bf20$657aa8c0@M90> <005f01c80c26$7e58d2a0$657aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: LOL Think of a solution as an application superstructure that contains various projects. It can contain as many projects as you need, and those projects don't have to originate in the solution. One of the projects in the solution is the startup project, the rest are the bits that make it work. We insist that a project have a single focus, i.e., a configuration project, a data project, a UI project, a custom controls project, a reports project, etc., etc. All of those are variously imported into the individual classes in the solution as required. All our winforms and subforms (user controls) live in the UI project, while all our data entities, typed datasets, and defined interfaces live in the data project. Our custom controls project is shared among our applications. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 9:48 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects Charlotte, This conversation is like trying to discuss a specific switch on the space shuttle. I don't know enough to know what I want to do. I have modules that I am developing or have found out there that I want to use in various projects. I do not want those modules embedded in each project precisely because of maintenance issues. In my terminology that is a library. ATM this is really a "library" of classes / modules that will be shared between projects. Understand that I do not truly understand "project" and "solution". A project is where poor people live and a solution is chemicals mixed in a liquid. Alternatively Project and Solution are terms used by much more advanced .Net programmers used to confuse beginners and establish respective positions in the programming hierarchy. Take it from there. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 12:16 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects But I thought you were trying to add your other project to a solution, not just a specific class. Charlotte Foust From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Oct 11 12:11:35 2007 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 10:11:35 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: When you add Existing Item, the add dialog has and Add and a Cancel button. once you select a file, the Add button shows a dropdown arrow that allows you to add the class as a link. But that is a way to add individual classes. If you wanted a whole library of objects, it would make more sense to add a project. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 9:56 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects Hi John et al To add to the confusing, I see no "Link" option anywhere; _if_ the Open button has an dropdown arrow juxtaposed, it offers "Open" or "Open with ..." only. /gustav >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 11-10-2007 18:48 >>> Charlotte, This conversation is like trying to discuss a specific switch on the space shuttle. I don't know enough to know what I want to do. I have modules that I am developing or have found out there that I want to use in various projects. I do not want those modules embedded in each project precisely because of maintenance issues. In my terminology that is a library. ATM this is really a "library" of classes / modules that will be shared between projects. Understand that I do not truly understand "project" and "solution". A project is where poor people live and a solution is chemicals mixed in a liquid. Alternatively Project and Solution are terms used by much more advanced .Net programmers used to confuse beginners and establish respective positions in the programming hierarchy. Take it from there. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 12:16 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects But I thought you were trying to add your other project to a solution, not just a specific class. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 9:12 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects Hmmm... If you "add existing" a file Find dialog opens. At the bottom of THAT is an ADD button which has a little drop down to the right of it. If you drop that down a "LINK option". If you select "LINK" then it adds the module as a link instead of importing it directly into the project. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 10:58 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects You're talking about two different things. Open is a menu item under the file menu. That's what Doris was referring to, I think. Charlotte Foust From ssharkins at gmail.com Fri Oct 12 09:24:31 2007 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 10:24:31 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Hello Message-ID: <00e201c80cdb$9fc66690$4b3a8343@SusanOne> Well, I'm here. My first question regards VB Express and VB.Net -- are they the same thing? I already have VB Express. IN the book I wrote on SQL Server Express, I included a chapter on using VB Express with SS Express. So, I'm not a total novice, but I don't actually use it for anything -- just to write that chapter. From the AccessD conversation, I gather I can use VB Express with Access too? Susan H. From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Oct 19 05:16:44 2007 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 12:16:44 +0200 Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects Message-ID: Hi Charlotte (when you return) et al I was derailed; I looked at the main menu File, Add. Where the link option exists, however, is in the Solution Explorer panel - if you right-click at the top level item. In the popup menu choose Add, Existing Item ... Now the Add Existing Item dialogue opens and, when a file is selected, the Add button features a dropdown arrow. Clicking this reveals the options Add Add As Link /gustav >>> cfoust at infostatsystems.com 11-10-2007 19:11 >>> When you add Existing Item, the add dialog has and Add and a Cancel button. once you select a file, the Add button shows a dropdown arrow that allows you to add the class as a link. But that is a way to add individual classes. If you wanted a whole library of objects, it would make more sense to add a project. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 9:56 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects Hi John et al To add to the confusing, I see no "Link" option anywhere; _if_ the Open button has an dropdown arrow juxtaposed, it offers "Open" or "Open with ..." only. /gustav >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 11-10-2007 18:48 >>> Charlotte, This conversation is like trying to discuss a specific switch on the space shuttle. I don't know enough to know what I want to do. I have modules that I am developing or have found out there that I want to use in various projects. I do not want those modules embedded in each project precisely because of maintenance issues. In my terminology that is a library. ATM this is really a "library" of classes / modules that will be shared between projects. Understand that I do not truly understand "project" and "solution". A project is where poor people live and a solution is chemicals mixed in a liquid. Alternatively Project and Solution are terms used by much more advanced .Net programmers used to confuse beginners and establish respective positions in the programming hierarchy. Take it from there. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 12:16 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects But I thought you were trying to add your other project to a solution, not just a specific class. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 9:12 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects Hmmm... If you "add existing" a file Find dialog opens. At the bottom of THAT is an ADD button which has a little drop down to the right of it. If you drop that down a "LINK option". If you select "LINK" then it adds the module as a link instead of importing it directly into the project. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 10:58 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects You're talking about two different things. Open is a menu item under the file menu. That's what Doris was referring to, I think. Charlotte Foust From carbonnb at gmail.com Sat Oct 20 10:27:11 2007 From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 11:27:11 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Message-ID: Hi there folks, Based on some comments over on AccessD we are looking at renaming the DBA-VB list. We don't want to exclude any programming language be it VB6, VB.Net, C#, J# or the next greating thing MS brings out. So we were considering renaming it to something like DBA-Coding or DBA-Programming Does anyone have any other suggestions or comments about the proposal? John Bartow - President, Database Advisors, Inc. Bryan Carbonnell - Listmaster, Database Advisors, Inc. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Oct 20 13:59:21 2007 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 11:59:21 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Bryan: With the exception of VB6 there is no coding that will be of .Net origin so why not just move on and just call the list DBA.Net. When the decision is finally made send me the confirmation and so it will be appropriately posted on our web site. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2007 8:27 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Hi there folks, Based on some comments over on AccessD we are looking at renaming the DBA-VB list. We don't want to exclude any programming language be it VB6, VB.Net, C#, J# or the next greating thing MS brings out. So we were considering renaming it to something like DBA-Coding or DBA-Programming Does anyone have any other suggestions or comments about the proposal? John Bartow - President, Database Advisors, Inc. Bryan Carbonnell - Listmaster, Database Advisors, Inc. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Oct 20 15:35:53 2007 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 13:35:53 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Meant to say: With the exception of VB6 there is no coding that will not be of .Net origin... Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2007 11:59 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Hi Bryan: With the exception of VB6 there is no coding that will be of .Net origin so why not just move on and just call the list DBA.Net. When the decision is finally made send me the confirmation and so it will be appropriately posted on our web site. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2007 8:27 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Hi there folks, Based on some comments over on AccessD we are looking at renaming the DBA-VB list. We don't want to exclude any programming language be it VB6, VB.Net, C#, J# or the next greating thing MS brings out. So we were considering renaming it to something like DBA-Coding or DBA-Programming Does anyone have any other suggestions or comments about the proposal? John Bartow - President, Database Advisors, Inc. Bryan Carbonnell - Listmaster, Database Advisors, Inc. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Sat Oct 20 17:23:16 2007 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 17:23:16 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'd say it's a good idea. Already saw Jim's post, and would have to disagree. There is a lot of 'coding' that doesn't necessarily fall under AccessD. VBScript, ASP, etc. I know several other languages, though, ironically, I only dabble in .Net, still prefer VB 6. I am not going to be on a dozen lists, but I wouldn't mind changing this list to accommodate all programming languages. Drew -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2007 10:27 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Hi there folks, Based on some comments over on AccessD we are looking at renaming the DBA-VB list. We don't want to exclude any programming language be it VB6, VB.Net, C#, J# or the next greating thing MS brings out. So we were considering renaming it to something like DBA-Coding or DBA-Programming Does anyone have any other suggestions or comments about the proposal? John Bartow - President, Database Advisors, Inc. Bryan Carbonnell - Listmaster, Database Advisors, Inc. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI BusinessSensitve material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From robert at webedb.com Mon Oct 22 15:31:10 2007 From: robert at webedb.com (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 15:31:10 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200710222034.l9MKYsrO000925@databaseadvisors.com> DBS-DotNetLanguages At 12:00 PM 10/20/2007, you wrote: >Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 11:27:11 -0400 >From: "Bryan Carbonnell" >Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB >To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com >Message-ID: > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > >Hi there folks, > >Based on some comments over on AccessD we are looking at renaming the >DBA-VB list. We don't want to exclude any programming language be it >VB6, VB.Net, C#, J# or the next greating thing MS brings out. > >So we were considering renaming it to something like DBA-Coding or >DBA-Programming > >Does anyone have any other suggestions or comments about the proposal? > >John Bartow - President, Database Advisors, Inc. >Bryan Carbonnell - Listmaster, Database Advisors, Inc. > >-- >Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com >Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well >preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, >shouting "What a great ride!" > > >------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >dba-VB mailing list >dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > >End of dba-VB Digest, Vol 48, Issue 10 >************************************** From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Mon Oct 22 17:20:48 2007 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Michael R Mattys) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 18:20:48 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB References: <200710222034.l9MKYsrO000925@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <00dd01c814f9$cd3146b0$0202a8c0@Laptop> I'm not interested in .Net anything, right now. I guess you're saying that both PHP and Ruby on Rails are irrelevant when it comes to Access? Michael R. Mattys MapPoint & Access Dev www.mattysconsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Oct 22 17:29:30 2007 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 18:29:30 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: <00dd01c814f9$cd3146b0$0202a8c0@Laptop> References: <200710222034.l9MKYsrO000925@databaseadvisors.com> <00dd01c814f9$cd3146b0$0202a8c0@Laptop> Message-ID: <001701c814fb$043777f0$647aa8c0@M90> This really isn't about the Access list. That will remain named as it is I presume. The discussion is about renaming the VB list to embrace a wider audience. It is my opinion that we should not cast too wide a net or we will end up attracting people for every platform under the sun and they will soon leave because there is no support available for their respective platform. I thought we should simply widen the target to include the .Net platform, specifically VB.Net. The list is currently VB oriented, and widening the scope to include VB.Net (which is a large percentage of the current traffic) would be entirely appropriate. Just my opinion. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael R Mattys Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 6:21 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I'm not interested in .Net anything, right now. I guess you're saying that both PHP and Ruby on Rails are irrelevant when it comes to Access? Michael R. Mattys MapPoint & Access Dev www.mattysconsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Oct 22 17:46:19 2007 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 15:46:19 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: <00dd01c814f9$cd3146b0$0202a8c0@Laptop> Message-ID: Those two development environments would hardly be irrelevant but there are dozens of great development environments... so where do you draw the line? For the most part we are a MS shop but with a keen eye on superior products. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael R Mattys Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 3:21 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I'm not interested in .Net anything, right now. I guess you're saying that both PHP and Ruby on Rails are irrelevant when it comes to Access? Michael R. Mattys MapPoint & Access Dev www.mattysconsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Mon Oct 22 18:49:19 2007 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Michael R Mattys) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 19:49:19 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB References: <200710222034.l9MKYsrO000925@databaseadvisors.com> <00dd01c814f9$cd3146b0$0202a8c0@Laptop> <001701c814fb$043777f0$647aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: <012401c81506$2affe6a0$0202a8c0@Laptop> We're going to need a stoplight for all this traffic. DBA.Code.Misc Michael R. Mattys MapPoint & Access Dev www.mattysconsulting.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "jwcolby" To: Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 6:29 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > This really isn't about the Access list. That will remain named as it is > I > presume. The discussion is about renaming the VB list to embrace a wider > audience. > > It is my opinion that we should not cast too wide a net or we will end up > attracting people for every platform under the sun and they will soon > leave > because there is no support available for their respective platform. > > I thought we should simply widen the target to include the .Net platform, > specifically VB.Net. The list is currently VB oriented, and widening the > scope to include VB.Net (which is a large percentage of the current > traffic) > would be entirely appropriate. > > Just my opinion. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael R Mattys > Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 6:21 PM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > I'm not interested in .Net anything, right now. > > I guess you're saying that both PHP and Ruby on Rails are irrelevant when > it > comes to Access? > > Michael R. Mattys > MapPoint & Access Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Oct 22 19:33:31 2007 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 20:33:31 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: References: <00dd01c814f9$cd3146b0$0202a8c0@Laptop> Message-ID: <001e01c8150c$5bb5efa0$647aa8c0@M90> LOL. If we had a keen eye on superior products we wouldn't be an MS shop. 8-O John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 6:46 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Those two development environments would hardly be irrelevant but there are dozens of great development environments... so where do you draw the line? For the most part we are a MS shop but with a keen eye on superior products. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael R Mattys Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 3:21 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I'm not interested in .Net anything, right now. I guess you're saying that both PHP and Ruby on Rails are irrelevant when it comes to Access? Michael R. Mattys MapPoint & Access Dev www.mattysconsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Oct 22 19:34:55 2007 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 20:34:55 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: <012401c81506$2affe6a0$0202a8c0@Laptop> References: <200710222034.l9MKYsrO000925@databaseadvisors.com><00dd01c814f9$cd3146b0$0202a8c0@Laptop><001701c814fb$043777f0$647aa8c0@M90> <012401c81506$2affe6a0$0202a8c0@Laptop> Message-ID: <001f01c8150c$8c345590$647aa8c0@M90> LOL. Come one, come all. Now one here uses that but now that you are here we have at least one. ;-) John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael R Mattys Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 7:49 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB We're going to need a stoplight for all this traffic. DBA.Code.Misc Michael R. Mattys MapPoint & Access Dev www.mattysconsulting.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "jwcolby" To: Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 6:29 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > This really isn't about the Access list. That will remain named as it is > I > presume. The discussion is about renaming the VB list to embrace a wider > audience. > > It is my opinion that we should not cast too wide a net or we will end up > attracting people for every platform under the sun and they will soon > leave > because there is no support available for their respective platform. > > I thought we should simply widen the target to include the .Net platform, > specifically VB.Net. The list is currently VB oriented, and widening the > scope to include VB.Net (which is a large percentage of the current > traffic) > would be entirely appropriate. > > Just my opinion. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael R Mattys > Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 6:21 PM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > I'm not interested in .Net anything, right now. > > I guess you're saying that both PHP and Ruby on Rails are irrelevant when > it > comes to Access? > > Michael R. Mattys > MapPoint & Access Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Oct 22 21:12:45 2007 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 19:12:45 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: <001e01c8150c$5bb5efa0$647aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: Officially, I have deniability... I did not say that. :-) Anyway .Net products run on Linux and Macs. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 5:34 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB LOL. If we had a keen eye on superior products we wouldn't be an MS shop. 8-O John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 6:46 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Those two development environments would hardly be irrelevant but there are dozens of great development environments... so where do you draw the line? For the most part we are a MS shop but with a keen eye on superior products. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael R Mattys Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 3:21 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I'm not interested in .Net anything, right now. I guess you're saying that both PHP and Ruby on Rails are irrelevant when it comes to Access? Michael R. Mattys MapPoint & Access Dev www.mattysconsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Oct 22 21:16:02 2007 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 19:16:02 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: <001f01c8150c$8c345590$647aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: <7A56D266028C4A9BBF4F46ED1507D274@creativesystemdesigns.com> There was a computer club that was started in around 1982 in Victoria that called itself 'Big Blue'. When a host of other copies started hitting the market the name was changed to 'Big Blue and cousins'. Maybe we could call the new site 'DBA.Net and cousins'? Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 5:35 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB LOL. Come one, come all. Now one here uses that but now that you are here we have at least one. ;-) John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael R Mattys Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 7:49 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB We're going to need a stoplight for all this traffic. DBA.Code.Misc Michael R. Mattys MapPoint & Access Dev www.mattysconsulting.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "jwcolby" To: Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 6:29 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > This really isn't about the Access list. That will remain named as it is > I > presume. The discussion is about renaming the VB list to embrace a wider > audience. > > It is my opinion that we should not cast too wide a net or we will end up > attracting people for every platform under the sun and they will soon > leave > because there is no support available for their respective platform. > > I thought we should simply widen the target to include the .Net platform, > specifically VB.Net. The list is currently VB oriented, and widening the > scope to include VB.Net (which is a large percentage of the current > traffic) > would be entirely appropriate. > > Just my opinion. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael R Mattys > Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 6:21 PM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > I'm not interested in .Net anything, right now. > > I guess you're saying that both PHP and Ruby on Rails are irrelevant when > it > comes to Access? > > Michael R. Mattys > MapPoint & Access Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From pharold at proftesting.com Tue Oct 23 00:14:31 2007 From: pharold at proftesting.com (Perry L Harold) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 01:14:31 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB References: Message-ID: DBA-Programming sounds reasonable and broad enough. Perry Harold Professional Testing Inc 407-264-2993 pharold at proftesting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2007 11:27 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Hi there folks, Based on some comments over on AccessD we are looking at renaming the DBA-VB list. We don't want to exclude any programming language be it VB6, VB.Net, C#, J# or the next greating thing MS brings out. So we were considering renaming it to something like DBA-Coding or DBA-Programming Does anyone have any other suggestions or comments about the proposal? John Bartow - President, Database Advisors, Inc. Bryan Carbonnell - Listmaster, Database Advisors, Inc. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue Oct 23 02:27:29 2007 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 09:27:29 +0200 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Message-ID: Hi John et al That covers pretty much my opinion. However, the new name isn't important too me, I just found VB(6) too restricted. I don't think anyone would be offended by a post on Java, Python or any other language, even VBScript - in fact I would welcome it - it's just that the audience with a relevant knowledge is quite limited so response would probably be low. But could we develop an audience for, say, Ruby On Rails it would be great. Even though we here at Cactus Data have decided for Visual Studio and C#, I would at least browse such postings because of the relevance to databases and because you can always learn something. In fact, one of the strengths of our lists is the members' broad background often supported by solid experience from real life, and we should encourage any step to maintain this. /gustav >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 23-10-2007 00:29 >>> This really isn't about the Access list. That will remain named as it is I presume. The discussion is about renaming the VB list to embrace a wider audience. It is my opinion that we should not cast too wide a net or we will end up attracting people for every platform under the sun and they will soon leave because there is no support available for their respective platform. I thought we should simply widen the target to include the .Net platform, specifically VB.Net. The list is currently VB oriented, and widening the scope to include VB.Net (which is a large percentage of the current traffic) would be entirely appropriate. Just my opinion. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael R Mattys Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 6:21 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I'm not interested in .Net anything, right now. I guess you're saying that both PHP and Ruby on Rails are irrelevant when it comes to Access? Michael R. Mattys MapPoint & Access Dev www.mattysconsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Oct 23 07:21:07 2007 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 08:21:07 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <003601c8156f$3108e9c0$647aa8c0@M90> Gustav, One of our list members mentioned that he didn't hang out on our vb list because it never gained critical mass and therefore the membership was low and the responses to questions low or nonexistent. I think this is a real concern. AccessD is specialized in Access, everyone there knows and "loves" Access and come there to get assistance or share their knowledge about Access. Now we create a list about "programming". That is fine except now someone come to the list and post a question about Ruby On Rails and get no answers because while everyone there is interested in following such threads, no one actually uses it. The thread never starts, and the poster goes away and finds a Ruby On Rails list so that he can get his questions answered. Make an assumption that somehow we achieve critical mass and we have 40 questions a day posted in each of Ruby, Java, Python, VBScript, VB6, VB.Net, C#, J#, F#, c#, D#, E# Z# and A flat Minor. I am on the list to learn about VB (the original focus) or in my case VB.Net, and I am getting flooded with emails about subjects which (not being a musician) I am not interested in nor do I have the expertise to appreciate. Neither scenario works. We keep AccessD focused on Access for a reason, so that it can be home to people interested in the subject. Having said that, we can certainly host a list on "Programming", in which discussions about programming concepts and even specific problems in whatever language are encouraged. But I for one would not vote to make the VB list that list. I use VB.Net a lot these days and I would like a list focused on the dot net technology, while holding on to our VB brethren who have not yet moved up. I vote to make the VB List a VB list which adds VB.Net and even other VB variations if desired, but still focused on VB. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 3:27 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Hi John et al That covers pretty much my opinion. However, the new name isn't important too me, I just found VB(6) too restricted. I don't think anyone would be offended by a post on Java, Python or any other language, even VBScript - in fact I would welcome it - it's just that the audience with a relevant knowledge is quite limited so response would probably be low. But could we develop an audience for, say, Ruby On Rails it would be great. Even though we here at Cactus Data have decided for Visual Studio and C#, I would at least browse such postings because of the relevance to databases and because you can always learn something. In fact, one of the strengths of our lists is the members' broad background often supported by solid experience from real life, and we should encourage any step to maintain this. /gustav >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 23-10-2007 00:29 >>> This really isn't about the Access list. That will remain named as it is I presume. The discussion is about renaming the VB list to embrace a wider audience. It is my opinion that we should not cast too wide a net or we will end up attracting people for every platform under the sun and they will soon leave because there is no support available for their respective platform. I thought we should simply widen the target to include the .Net platform, specifically VB.Net. The list is currently VB oriented, and widening the scope to include VB.Net (which is a large percentage of the current traffic) would be entirely appropriate. Just my opinion. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael R Mattys Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 6:21 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I'm not interested in .Net anything, right now. I guess you're saying that both PHP and Ruby on Rails are irrelevant when it comes to Access? Michael R. Mattys MapPoint & Access Dev www.mattysconsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Tue Oct 23 08:12:02 2007 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Michael R Mattys) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 09:12:02 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB References: <003601c8156f$3108e9c0$647aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: <005201c81576$4fc369b0$0202a8c0@Laptop> Well said, John. I concede to VS8. Yet, the boulder doesn't seem to be moving in any direction. Michael R. Mattys MapPoint & Access Dev www.mattysconsulting.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "jwcolby" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 8:21 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > Gustav, > > One of our list members mentioned that he didn't hang out on our vb list > because it never gained critical mass and therefore the membership was low > and the responses to questions low or nonexistent. I think this is a real > concern. AccessD is specialized in Access, everyone there knows and > "loves" > Access and come there to get assistance or share their knowledge about > Access. > > Now we create a list about "programming". That is fine except now someone > come to the list and post a question about Ruby On Rails and get no > answers > because while everyone there is interested in following such threads, no > one > actually uses it. The thread never starts, and the poster goes away and > finds a Ruby On Rails list so that he can get his questions answered. > > Make an assumption that somehow we achieve critical mass and we have 40 > questions a day posted in each of Ruby, Java, Python, VBScript, VB6, > VB.Net, > C#, J#, F#, c#, D#, E# Z# and A flat Minor. I am on the list to learn > about > VB (the original focus) or in my case VB.Net, and I am getting flooded > with > emails about subjects which (not being a musician) I am not interested in > nor do I have the expertise to appreciate. > > Neither scenario works. We keep AccessD focused on Access for a reason, > so > that it can be home to people interested in the subject. > > Having said that, we can certainly host a list on "Programming", in which > discussions about programming concepts and even specific problems in > whatever language are encouraged. But I for one would not vote to make > the > VB list that list. > > I use VB.Net a lot these days and I would like a list focused on the dot > net > technology, while holding on to our VB brethren who have not yet moved up. > I vote to make the VB List a VB list which adds VB.Net and even other VB > variations if desired, but still focused on VB. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > www.ColbyConsulting.com snip > In fact, one of the strengths of our lists is the members' broad > background > often supported by solid experience from real life, and we should > encourage > any step to maintain this. > > /gustav snip > I thought we should simply widen the target to include the .Net platform, > specifically VB.Net. The list is currently VB oriented, and widening the > scope to include VB.Net (which is a large percentage of the current > traffic) > would be entirely appropriate. > > Just my opinion. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > www.ColbyConsulting.com snip > I'm not interested in .Net anything, right now. > Michael R. Mattys > MapPoint & Access Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Tue Oct 23 10:39:08 2007 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 11:39:08 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB References: Message-ID: <004801c8158a$dac17200$6b706c4c@JISREGISTRATION.local> ...what many here apparently don't yet understand Gustav, is just how easy and rewarding the transition from vb.net (even vba) to c# really is in the dot.net environment ...I was a long time vba developer who got pushed into asp.net work by a client and automatically defaulted to using vb.net ...but so many of the samples and tutorials were posted in both vb.net and C# that it became quickly evident that it was mostly just syntax differences ...and minor ones at that ...and more and more of the samples/tutorials I was really interested in were available only in c# because vb.net simply could not do it as well if at all. ...my vote goes to dba.net on the simple basis that most questions posed in either .net language can be readily addressed by any one experienced in either ...besides which the free translators available have become quite adept at going to from either language. ...imnsho, dba.programming will suffer the same fate as dba.vb has but for exactly the opposite reason. ...my 2 cents, worth exactly what it cost you. William ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 3:27 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > Hi John et al > > That covers pretty much my opinion. > However, the new name isn't important too me, I just found VB(6) too > restricted. I don't think anyone would be offended by a post on Java, > Python or any other language, even VBScript - in fact I would welcome it - > it's just that the audience with a relevant knowledge is quite limited so > response would probably be low. But could we develop an audience for, say, > Ruby On Rails it would be great. Even though we here at Cactus Data have > decided for Visual Studio and C#, I would at least browse such postings > because of the relevance to databases and because you can always learn > something. > > In fact, one of the strengths of our lists is the members' broad > background often supported by solid experience from real life, and we > should encourage any step to maintain this. > > /gustav > >>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 23-10-2007 00:29 >>> > This really isn't about the Access list. That will remain named as it is > I > presume. The discussion is about renaming the VB list to embrace a wider > audience. > > It is my opinion that we should not cast too wide a net or we will end up > attracting people for every platform under the sun and they will soon > leave > because there is no support available for their respective platform. > > I thought we should simply widen the target to include the .Net platform, > specifically VB.Net. The list is currently VB oriented, and widening the > scope to include VB.Net (which is a large percentage of the current > traffic) > would be entirely appropriate. > > Just my opinion. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael R Mattys > Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 6:21 PM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > I'm not interested in .Net anything, right now. > > I guess you're saying that both PHP and Ruby on Rails are irrelevant when > it > comes to Access? > > Michael R. Mattys > MapPoint & Access Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Oct 23 11:47:26 2007 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 12:47:26 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] C# vs VB - was RE: Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: <004801c8158a$dac17200$6b706c4c@JISREGISTRATION.local> References: <004801c8158a$dac17200$6b706c4c@JISREGISTRATION.local> Message-ID: <004701c81594$76b6be50$647aa8c0@M90> William, I programmed for a couple of years completely and only in C for a uController project back in 96/97. I went there from Access 2.0 and returned to Access 97 (VBA). I know that the syntax for C# is quite close to VB.Net in a lot of ways and I also know that there are gotchas that have to be understood, remembered and handled. I think that going from VB.Net to C#.Net is a LOT easier than going from VBA to C#.Net for the simple reason that if you are fluent in VB.Net then you are no longer banging your head over the IDE, the plethora of .Net classes, the intricacies of inheritance, partial classes and so forth and so on. That is all handled and understood and NOW you can concentrate on syntax differences. I have been a programmer full time since 1996, with long stints in variances of basic as well as Pascal and "short" stints in C and I just found it irritating moving directly from VBA to C#. I made an educated decision to postpone the move to C# until I was up to speed on VB.Net. I have done translations of code segments between C# back to VB.Net and I can tell you that sometimes it is easy, sometimes it is not. There are things possible in C# that simply are not possible in VB.Net and, believe it or not, Vice Versa. Some of those differences are quite deep conceptually and can throw a major wrench in any conversion. I have not tried it lately, but I know that My. syntax (My.Computer) exists in VB but not in C#, at least in the past. Thus taking any code with My. constructs and porting them to C# requires quite in-depth knowledge of what the equivalent is. The My. construct is just a wrapper, but a wrapper of WHAT. That is just one quick example. So yes, in GENERAL the programming constructs all pretty much match one for one, { = Begin, } = End, For exists in both etc. Once you get past the basics however there are things which are not so quickly and easily translated. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 11:39 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB ...what many here apparently don't yet understand Gustav, is just how easy and rewarding the transition from vb.net (even vba) to c# really is in the dot.net environment ...I was a long time vba developer who got pushed into asp.net work by a client and automatically defaulted to using vb.net ...but so many of the samples and tutorials were posted in both vb.net and C# that it became quickly evident that it was mostly just syntax differences ...and minor ones at that ...and more and more of the samples/tutorials I was really interested in were available only in c# because vb.net simply could not do it as well if at all. ...my vote goes to dba.net on the simple basis that most questions posed in either .net language can be readily addressed by any one experienced in either ...besides which the free translators available have become quite adept at going to from either language. ...imnsho, dba.programming will suffer the same fate as dba.vb has but for exactly the opposite reason. ...my 2 cents, worth exactly what it cost you. William From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Oct 23 12:02:44 2007 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 10:02:44 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] C# vs VB - was RE: Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: <004701c81594$76b6be50$647aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: As far as I understand there are 2 possible reasons for going to C# if you are competent in VB.Net. 1. The one key point for going to C# as apposed to Vb.Net would be for performance. That is not the case as they both perform equally so what is the advantage. 2. The other point is that once an application is started in C# it has to be completed in C#. This is also not the case as .Net derivatives can be mixed and compiled. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 9:47 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] C# vs VB - was RE: Renaming DBA-VB William, I programmed for a couple of years completely and only in C for a uController project back in 96/97. I went there from Access 2.0 and returned to Access 97 (VBA). I know that the syntax for C# is quite close to VB.Net in a lot of ways and I also know that there are gotchas that have to be understood, remembered and handled. I think that going from VB.Net to C#.Net is a LOT easier than going from VBA to C#.Net for the simple reason that if you are fluent in VB.Net then you are no longer banging your head over the IDE, the plethora of .Net classes, the intricacies of inheritance, partial classes and so forth and so on. That is all handled and understood and NOW you can concentrate on syntax differences. I have been a programmer full time since 1996, with long stints in variances of basic as well as Pascal and "short" stints in C and I just found it irritating moving directly from VBA to C#. I made an educated decision to postpone the move to C# until I was up to speed on VB.Net. I have done translations of code segments between C# back to VB.Net and I can tell you that sometimes it is easy, sometimes it is not. There are things possible in C# that simply are not possible in VB.Net and, believe it or not, Vice Versa. Some of those differences are quite deep conceptually and can throw a major wrench in any conversion. I have not tried it lately, but I know that My. syntax (My.Computer) exists in VB but not in C#, at least in the past. Thus taking any code with My. constructs and porting them to C# requires quite in-depth knowledge of what the equivalent is. The My. construct is just a wrapper, but a wrapper of WHAT. That is just one quick example. So yes, in GENERAL the programming constructs all pretty much match one for one, { = Begin, } = End, For exists in both etc. Once you get past the basics however there are things which are not so quickly and easily translated. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 11:39 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB ...what many here apparently don't yet understand Gustav, is just how easy and rewarding the transition from vb.net (even vba) to c# really is in the dot.net environment ...I was a long time vba developer who got pushed into asp.net work by a client and automatically defaulted to using vb.net ...but so many of the samples and tutorials were posted in both vb.net and C# that it became quickly evident that it was mostly just syntax differences ...and minor ones at that ...and more and more of the samples/tutorials I was really interested in were available only in c# because vb.net simply could not do it as well if at all. ...my vote goes to dba.net on the simple basis that most questions posed in either .net language can be readily addressed by any one experienced in either ...besides which the free translators available have become quite adept at going to from either language. ...imnsho, dba.programming will suffer the same fate as dba.vb has but for exactly the opposite reason. ...my 2 cents, worth exactly what it cost you. William _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Oct 23 12:09:30 2007 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 13:09:30 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] C# vs VB - was RE: Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: References: <004701c81594$76b6be50$647aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: <004d01c81597$7a7dd110$647aa8c0@M90> Jim, you forgot: Employers pay more for C# programmers Examples are in C#. Both of those are true and valid reasons. The professionals state that in general both VB and C# are capable. Both are a thin veneer over the .Net framework. And each do have a VERY small handful of things that they can do that the other can't. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 1:03 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] C# vs VB - was RE: Renaming DBA-VB As far as I understand there are 2 possible reasons for going to C# if you are competent in VB.Net. 1. The one key point for going to C# as apposed to Vb.Net would be for performance. That is not the case as they both perform equally so what is the advantage. 2. The other point is that once an application is started in C# it has to be completed in C#. This is also not the case as .Net derivatives can be mixed and compiled. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 9:47 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] C# vs VB - was RE: Renaming DBA-VB William, I programmed for a couple of years completely and only in C for a uController project back in 96/97. I went there from Access 2.0 and returned to Access 97 (VBA). I know that the syntax for C# is quite close to VB.Net in a lot of ways and I also know that there are gotchas that have to be understood, remembered and handled. I think that going from VB.Net to C#.Net is a LOT easier than going from VBA to C#.Net for the simple reason that if you are fluent in VB.Net then you are no longer banging your head over the IDE, the plethora of .Net classes, the intricacies of inheritance, partial classes and so forth and so on. That is all handled and understood and NOW you can concentrate on syntax differences. I have been a programmer full time since 1996, with long stints in variances of basic as well as Pascal and "short" stints in C and I just found it irritating moving directly from VBA to C#. I made an educated decision to postpone the move to C# until I was up to speed on VB.Net. I have done translations of code segments between C# back to VB.Net and I can tell you that sometimes it is easy, sometimes it is not. There are things possible in C# that simply are not possible in VB.Net and, believe it or not, Vice Versa. Some of those differences are quite deep conceptually and can throw a major wrench in any conversion. I have not tried it lately, but I know that My. syntax (My.Computer) exists in VB but not in C#, at least in the past. Thus taking any code with My. constructs and porting them to C# requires quite in-depth knowledge of what the equivalent is. The My. construct is just a wrapper, but a wrapper of WHAT. That is just one quick example. So yes, in GENERAL the programming constructs all pretty much match one for one, { = Begin, } = End, For exists in both etc. Once you get past the basics however there are things which are not so quickly and easily translated. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 11:39 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB ...what many here apparently don't yet understand Gustav, is just how easy and rewarding the transition from vb.net (even vba) to c# really is in the dot.net environment ...I was a long time vba developer who got pushed into asp.net work by a client and automatically defaulted to using vb.net ...but so many of the samples and tutorials were posted in both vb.net and C# that it became quickly evident that it was mostly just syntax differences ...and minor ones at that ...and more and more of the samples/tutorials I was really interested in were available only in c# because vb.net simply could not do it as well if at all. ...my vote goes to dba.net on the simple basis that most questions posed in either .net language can be readily addressed by any one experienced in either ...besides which the free translators available have become quite adept at going to from either language. ...imnsho, dba.programming will suffer the same fate as dba.vb has but for exactly the opposite reason. ...my 2 cents, worth exactly what it cost you. William _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Tue Oct 23 12:43:09 2007 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 13:43:09 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] C# vs VB - was RE: Renaming DBA-VB References: <004701c81594$76b6be50$647aa8c0@M90> <004d01c81597$7a7dd110$647aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: <002901c8159c$2da13440$6b706c4c@JISREGISTRATION.local> ...without getting into an argument I have neither the time nor the acumen for, it would appear that you just made my case for dba.net :) ...the languages are virtually interchangeable front ends for the net framework ...and in fact can be used interchangeably within the framework in most circumstances ...why would we want to eliminate a large group of developers with common problems, resolutions, experiences, and code samples by limiting the new group to only vb.net? William ----- Original Message ----- From: "jwcolby" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 1:09 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] C# vs VB - was RE: Renaming DBA-VB > Jim, you forgot: > > Employers pay more for C# programmers > Examples are in C#. > > Both of those are true and valid reasons. The professionals state that in > general both VB and C# are capable. Both are a thin veneer over the .Net > framework. And each do have a VERY small handful of things that they can > do > that the other can't. > > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 1:03 PM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] C# vs VB - was RE: Renaming DBA-VB > > As far as I understand there are 2 possible reasons for going to C# if you > are competent in VB.Net. > > 1. The one key point for going to C# as apposed to Vb.Net would be for > performance. That is not the case as they both perform equally so what is > the advantage. > > 2. The other point is that once an application is started in C# it has to > be > completed in C#. This is also not the case as .Net derivatives can be > mixed > and compiled. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 9:47 AM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [dba-VB] C# vs VB - was RE: Renaming DBA-VB > > William, > > I programmed for a couple of years completely and only in C for a > uController project back in 96/97. I went there from Access 2.0 and > returned to Access 97 (VBA). I know that the syntax for C# is quite close > to VB.Net in a lot of ways and I also know that there are gotchas that > have > to be understood, remembered and handled. I think that going from VB.Net > to > C#.Net is a LOT easier than going from VBA to C#.Net for the simple reason > that if you are fluent in VB.Net then you are no longer banging your head > over the IDE, the plethora of .Net classes, the intricacies of > inheritance, > partial classes and so forth and so on. That is all handled and > understood > and NOW you can concentrate on syntax differences. > > I have been a programmer full time since 1996, with long stints in > variances > of basic as well as Pascal and "short" stints in C and I just found it > irritating moving directly from VBA to C#. I made an educated decision to > postpone the move to C# until I was up to speed on VB.Net. I have done > translations of code segments between C# back to VB.Net and I can tell you > that sometimes it is easy, sometimes it is not. There are things possible > in C# that simply are not possible in VB.Net and, believe it or not, Vice > Versa. Some of those differences are quite deep conceptually and can > throw > a major wrench in any conversion. > > I have not tried it lately, but I know that My. syntax (My.Computer) > exists > in VB but not in C#, at least in the past. Thus taking any code with My. > constructs and porting them to C# requires quite in-depth knowledge of > what > the equivalent is. The My. construct is just a wrapper, but a wrapper of > WHAT. That is just one quick example. > > So yes, in GENERAL the programming constructs all pretty much match one > for > one, { = Begin, } = End, For exists in both etc. Once you get past the > basics however there are things which are not so quickly and easily > translated. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman > Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 11:39 AM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > ...what many here apparently don't yet understand Gustav, is just how easy > and rewarding the transition from vb.net (even vba) to c# really is in the > dot.net environment ...I was a long time vba developer who got pushed into > asp.net work by a client and automatically defaulted to using vb.net > ...but > so many of the samples and tutorials were posted in both vb.net and C# > that > it became quickly evident that it was mostly just syntax differences > ...and > minor ones at that ...and more and more of the samples/tutorials I was > really interested in were available only in c# because vb.net simply > could > not do it as well if at all. > > ...my vote goes to dba.net on the simple basis that most questions posed > in > either .net language can be readily addressed by any one experienced in > either ...besides which the free translators available have become quite > adept at going to from either language. > > ...imnsho, dba.programming will suffer the same fate as dba.vb has but for > exactly the opposite reason. > > ...my 2 cents, worth exactly what it cost you. > > William > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Oct 23 13:08:40 2007 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 14:08:40 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] C# vs VB - was RE: Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: <002901c8159c$2da13440$6b706c4c@JISREGISTRATION.local> References: <004701c81594$76b6be50$647aa8c0@M90><004d01c81597$7a7dd110$647aa8c0@M90> <002901c8159c$2da13440$6b706c4c@JISREGISTRATION.local> Message-ID: <005101c8159f$be798f00$647aa8c0@M90> I have no problem with that, I just would hate to see it purport to be a knowledge base for every language under the sun. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 1:43 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] C# vs VB - was RE: Renaming DBA-VB ...without getting into an argument I have neither the time nor the acumen for, it would appear that you just made my case for dba.net :) ...the languages are virtually interchangeable front ends for the net framework ...and in fact can be used interchangeably within the framework in most circumstances ...why would we want to eliminate a large group of developers with common problems, resolutions, experiences, and code samples by limiting the new group to only vb.net? William ----- Original Message ----- From: "jwcolby" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 1:09 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] C# vs VB - was RE: Renaming DBA-VB > Jim, you forgot: > > Employers pay more for C# programmers > Examples are in C#. > > Both of those are true and valid reasons. The professionals state that in > general both VB and C# are capable. Both are a thin veneer over the .Net > framework. And each do have a VERY small handful of things that they can > do > that the other can't. > > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 1:03 PM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] C# vs VB - was RE: Renaming DBA-VB > > As far as I understand there are 2 possible reasons for going to C# if you > are competent in VB.Net. > > 1. The one key point for going to C# as apposed to Vb.Net would be for > performance. That is not the case as they both perform equally so what is > the advantage. > > 2. The other point is that once an application is started in C# it has to > be > completed in C#. This is also not the case as .Net derivatives can be > mixed > and compiled. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 9:47 AM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [dba-VB] C# vs VB - was RE: Renaming DBA-VB > > William, > > I programmed for a couple of years completely and only in C for a > uController project back in 96/97. I went there from Access 2.0 and > returned to Access 97 (VBA). I know that the syntax for C# is quite close > to VB.Net in a lot of ways and I also know that there are gotchas that > have > to be understood, remembered and handled. I think that going from VB.Net > to > C#.Net is a LOT easier than going from VBA to C#.Net for the simple reason > that if you are fluent in VB.Net then you are no longer banging your head > over the IDE, the plethora of .Net classes, the intricacies of > inheritance, > partial classes and so forth and so on. That is all handled and > understood > and NOW you can concentrate on syntax differences. > > I have been a programmer full time since 1996, with long stints in > variances > of basic as well as Pascal and "short" stints in C and I just found it > irritating moving directly from VBA to C#. I made an educated decision to > postpone the move to C# until I was up to speed on VB.Net. I have done > translations of code segments between C# back to VB.Net and I can tell you > that sometimes it is easy, sometimes it is not. There are things possible > in C# that simply are not possible in VB.Net and, believe it or not, Vice > Versa. Some of those differences are quite deep conceptually and can > throw > a major wrench in any conversion. > > I have not tried it lately, but I know that My. syntax (My.Computer) > exists > in VB but not in C#, at least in the past. Thus taking any code with My. > constructs and porting them to C# requires quite in-depth knowledge of > what > the equivalent is. The My. construct is just a wrapper, but a wrapper of > WHAT. That is just one quick example. > > So yes, in GENERAL the programming constructs all pretty much match one > for > one, { = Begin, } = End, For exists in both etc. Once you get past the > basics however there are things which are not so quickly and easily > translated. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman > Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 11:39 AM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > ...what many here apparently don't yet understand Gustav, is just how easy > and rewarding the transition from vb.net (even vba) to c# really is in the > dot.net environment ...I was a long time vba developer who got pushed into > asp.net work by a client and automatically defaulted to using vb.net > ...but > so many of the samples and tutorials were posted in both vb.net and C# > that > it became quickly evident that it was mostly just syntax differences > ...and > minor ones at that ...and more and more of the samples/tutorials I was > really interested in were available only in c# because vb.net simply > could > not do it as well if at all. > > ...my vote goes to dba.net on the simple basis that most questions posed > in > either .net language can be readily addressed by any one experienced in > either ...besides which the free translators available have become quite > adept at going to from either language. > > ...imnsho, dba.programming will suffer the same fate as dba.vb has but for > exactly the opposite reason. > > ...my 2 cents, worth exactly what it cost you. > > William > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From robert at webedb.com Tue Oct 23 13:13:09 2007 From: robert at webedb.com (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 13:13:09 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] C# vs VB - was RE: Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200710231818.l9NIInOt026521@databaseadvisors.com> The third is that it is what the customer wants. Most of the contracting in the Houston, TX area is for C# and not VB.net. No matter how you slice this one, it comes up C#. So, in the naming thing, DBA-DotNetLanguages is probably too broad. Create 2 new ones (at least) DBA-VBnet and DBA-C#. The the questions can fall where they belong. At 11:58 AM 10/23/2007, you wrote: >Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 10:02:44 -0700 >From: Jim Lawrence >Subject: Re: [dba-VB] C# vs VB - was RE: Renaming DBA-VB >To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com >Message-ID: > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > >As far as I understand there are 2 possible reasons for going to C# if you >are competent in VB.Net. > >1. The one key point for going to C# as apposed to Vb.Net would be for >performance. That is not the case as they both perform equally so what is >the advantage. > >2. The other point is that once an application is started in C# it has to be >completed in C#. This is also not the case as .Net derivatives can be mixed >and compiled. > >Jim From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue Oct 23 13:29:02 2007 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 20:29:02 +0200 Subject: [dba-VB] C# vs VB - was RE: Renaming DBA-VB Message-ID: Hi Robert I think the traffic on that new list would be too low ... /gustav >>> robert at webedb.com 23-10-2007 20:13:09 >>> The third is that it is what the customer wants. Most of the contracting in the Houston, TX area is for C# and not VB.net. No matter how you slice this one, it comes up C#. So, in the naming thing, DBA-DotNetLanguages is probably too broad. Create 2 new ones (at least) DBA-VBnet and DBA-C#. The the questions can fall where they belong. From michael at ddisolutions.com.au Tue Oct 23 18:54:56 2007 From: michael at ddisolutions.com.au (Michael Maddison) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 09:54:56 +1000 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB References: <004801c8158a$dac17200$6b706c4c@JISREGISTRATION.local> Message-ID: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D01289F54@ddi-01.DDI.local> I concur... Went exactly the same path as William, 1st .net project in VB since then C# exclusively. Amazing how many clients with bugger all experience in Dev specify C# as well... cheers Michael M ...what many here apparently don't yet understand Gustav, is just how easy and rewarding the transition from vb.net (even vba) to c# really is in the dot.net environment ...I was a long time vba developer who got pushed into asp.net work by a client and automatically defaulted to using vb.net ...but so many of the samples and tutorials were posted in both vb.net and C# that it became quickly evident that it was mostly just syntax differences ...and minor ones at that ...and more and more of the samples/tutorials I was really interested in were available only in c# because vb.net simply could not do it as well if at all. ...my vote goes to dba.net on the simple basis that most questions posed in either .net language can be readily addressed by any one experienced in either ...besides which the free translators available have become quite adept at going to from either language. ...imnsho, dba.programming will suffer the same fate as dba.vb has but for exactly the opposite reason. ...my 2 cents, worth exactly what it cost you. William ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 3:27 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > Hi John et al > > That covers pretty much my opinion. > However, the new name isn't important too me, I just found VB(6) too > restricted. I don't think anyone would be offended by a post on Java, > Python or any other language, even VBScript - in fact I would welcome it - > it's just that the audience with a relevant knowledge is quite limited so > response would probably be low. But could we develop an audience for, say, > Ruby On Rails it would be great. Even though we here at Cactus Data have > decided for Visual Studio and C#, I would at least browse such postings > because of the relevance to databases and because you can always learn > something. > > In fact, one of the strengths of our lists is the members' broad > background often supported by solid experience from real life, and we > should encourage any step to maintain this. > > /gustav > >>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 23-10-2007 00:29 >>> > This really isn't about the Access list. That will remain named as it is > I > presume. The discussion is about renaming the VB list to embrace a wider > audience. > > It is my opinion that we should not cast too wide a net or we will end up > attracting people for every platform under the sun and they will soon > leave > because there is no support available for their respective platform. > > I thought we should simply widen the target to include the .Net platform, > specifically VB.Net. The list is currently VB oriented, and widening the > scope to include VB.Net (which is a large percentage of the current > traffic) > would be entirely appropriate. > > Just my opinion. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael R Mattys > Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 6:21 PM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > I'm not interested in .Net anything, right now. > > I guess you're saying that both PHP and Ruby on Rails are irrelevant when > it > comes to Access? > > Michael R. Mattys > MapPoint & Access Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Oct 23 19:03:54 2007 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 17:03:54 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: <001701c814fb$043777f0$647aa8c0@M90> References: <200710222034.l9MKYsrO000925@databaseadvisors.com><00dd01c814f9$cd3146b0$0202a8c0@Laptop> <001701c814fb$043777f0$647aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: I agree, John, especially since we aren't creating a new forum, simply renaming one that hasn't been very active of late except in the VB.Net arena. Heck, we get questions in Access-D about Lotus Notes and a variety of other things that aren't Access or VBa. We go through this same process in Woody's Lounge when a new version of Office is released or a new version of Windows or Visual Studio. We added a new forum for .Net and let it go at that. I isn't just VB.Net, but also ADO.Net, ASP, WinForms, WebForms, etc. If we try to make the focus too broad it's more likely that people will go to a list with a name that relates to the help they want, so I consider Programming as way too broad a label unless you preface it with .Net Programming. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 3:30 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB This really isn't about the Access list. That will remain named as it is I presume. The discussion is about renaming the VB list to embrace a wider audience. It is my opinion that we should not cast too wide a net or we will end up attracting people for every platform under the sun and they will soon leave because there is no support available for their respective platform. I thought we should simply widen the target to include the .Net platform, specifically VB.Net. The list is currently VB oriented, and widening the scope to include VB.Net (which is a large percentage of the current traffic) would be entirely appropriate. Just my opinion. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael R Mattys Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 6:21 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I'm not interested in .Net anything, right now. I guess you're saying that both PHP and Ruby on Rails are irrelevant when it comes to Access? Michael R. Mattys MapPoint & Access Dev www.mattysconsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Tue Oct 23 23:03:54 2007 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 23:03:54 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: <003601c8156f$3108e9c0$647aa8c0@M90> References: <003601c8156f$3108e9c0$647aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: <000601c815f2$e4b33d80$6402a8c0@ScuzzPaq> LOL! That was a hoot! -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby ... C#, J#, F#, c#, D#, E# Z# and A flat Minor. From shamil at users.mns.ru Wed Oct 24 01:18:29 2007 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 10:18:29 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: <000601c815f2$e4b33d80$6402a8c0@ScuzzPaq> Message-ID: <000601c81605$b2ab56c0$6401a8c0@nant> <<< ... C#, J#, F#, c#, D#, E# Z# and A flat Minor. >>> Hi All, Let's start building the Tower of Babylon? :) (Just a rhetoric introductory question of course...) I personally *currently* prefer C# for VS-based DB-centered real-life projects' application programming... I'd not mind to develop MS Access 2003/2007/MS Office front-end if my customer will demand that but I will very probably explain/prove to my customer that using VBA/VB6 for anything more than "gluing" MS Access/Office front-end would be waste of resources these days when we have VS2005 for several years and when VS2008 (and .NET Framework 3.5 etc.etc. related) are to be released real soon... One year ago from now I was more VB.NET-ish than C#-ish :) I'd not mind to become Ruby-in-Steel-ish (http://www.sapphiresteel.com/Steel-Download-and-Change-Log ) one year from now and to get really artistic and efficient with it as this Ruby-dance clip shows http://www.metacafe.com/watch/292734/ruby_dancing/ :) I could even get Iron-Python-ish (http://www.devrush.com/world_web_development/world_web_development_blogs/20 07_08_14_13_45_265/full_news ) real soon especially taking into account that I currently programming mainly ASP.NET applications... IOW I mean that right tool should be used for right job/task and that means for me that limiting myself to one programming language is looking here like a loosing strategy - that (limited oneself to use one programming language/tool for every job/task) would look like that - http://www.metacafe.com/watch/881053/penguin_goes_in_shop/ - yes, it's funny and rather efficient but it's not: as artistic and efficient as this http://www.metacafe.com/watch/780405/the_best_goals_ever/ ... and it's not as flexible and free to go in every direction (when needed/forced by market/customers' demands) as this http://www.metacafe.com/watch/788432/extreme_ballerina_stretching/ ... and it (use of one language/tool) is not as hacky/tricky as this http://www.metacafe.com/watch/828731/trigger_green_traffic_lights/ (very efficient on demand "simple' trick :))... and this http://www.metacafe.com/watch/835982/how_to_make_blood_appear_in_body_withou t_any_wound/ (I mean knowing "alchemy" - the best effective and flexible way to use the mix of the modern programming languages/technologies within VS) often helps to keep (new) customers coming etc.etc. :) ) IOW I'm voting/going for being proficient in several programming languages/technologies to be able to speed-up/slow-down when needed (http://www.metacafe.com/watch/880972/viewty/ ) but I'm also voting for/going to use VS IDE as the base (limiting) framework to stay focused on mainstream technologies/development tools, which VS IDE brings so plenty these days... But I'd mainly "limit" myself by VS IDE -enabled programming languages, technologies and .NET Framework for developing core functionality of my customers' applications because VS look like universal and efficient enough for the tasks I'm going to work on: the rest of the tasks if they come I'd subcontract to anybody else with pleasure... And then I (hope) I will have enough spare time for the pleasure of playing and watching tennis http://www.metacafe.com/watch/770613/maria_sharapova/ and traveling to watch the funny events like this one http://www.metacafe.com/watch/786303/bathroom_break/ :) Just wanted to make funny and joyful this becoming a little bit "religious" and boring thread... Sorry if my this posting may sound "religious and boring" for somebody here... Thanks :) -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 8:04 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB LOL! That was a hoot! -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby ... C#, J#, F#, c#, D#, E# Z# and A flat Minor. _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From R.Griffiths at bury.gov.uk Wed Oct 24 03:44:55 2007 From: R.Griffiths at bury.gov.uk (Griffiths, Richard) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 09:44:55 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: References: <200710222034.l9MKYsrO000925@databaseadvisors.com><00dd01c814f9$cd3146b0$0202a8c0@Laptop><001701c814fb$043777f0$647aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: <200710240829.l9O8TMw03053@smarthost.yourcomms.net> I used to use AccessD regularly as most of my development was in MS Access - I still get the emails and use as required (I decided to bite the bullet on throw my efforts in to .NET (VB)). So from someone looking in (more objectively?) I would agree with Charlotte - you are not creating a new forum simply renaming / updating an existing one - go with that. -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: 24 October 2007 01:04 To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I agree, John, especially since we aren't creating a new forum, simply renaming one that hasn't been very active of late except in the VB.Net arena. Heck, we get questions in Access-D about Lotus Notes and a variety of other things that aren't Access or VBa. We go through this same process in Woody's Lounge when a new version of Office is released or a new version of Windows or Visual Studio. We added a new forum for .Net and let it go at that. I isn't just VB.Net, but also ADO.Net, ASP, WinForms, WebForms, etc. If we try to make the focus too broad it's more likely that people will go to a list with a name that relates to the help they want, so I consider Programming as way too broad a label unless you preface it with .Net Programming. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 3:30 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB This really isn't about the Access list. That will remain named as it is I presume. The discussion is about renaming the VB list to embrace a wider audience. It is my opinion that we should not cast too wide a net or we will end up attracting people for every platform under the sun and they will soon leave because there is no support available for their respective platform. I thought we should simply widen the target to include the .Net platform, specifically VB.Net. The list is currently VB oriented, and widening the scope to include VB.Net (which is a large percentage of the current traffic) would be entirely appropriate. Just my opinion. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael R Mattys Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 6:21 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I'm not interested in .Net anything, right now. I guess you're saying that both PHP and Ruby on Rails are irrelevant when it comes to Access? Michael R. Mattys MapPoint & Access Dev www.mattysconsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Oct 24 14:12:04 2007 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 12:12:04 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: <000601c81605$b2ab56c0$6401a8c0@nant> Message-ID: I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering that its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the speed of any .Net flavour. A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not impressed with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was required to write extensive notes in the code. His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 11:18 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB <<< ... C#, J#, F#, c#, D#, E# Z# and A flat Minor. >>> Hi All, Let's start building the Tower of Babylon? :) (Just a rhetoric introductory question of course...) I personally *currently* prefer C# for VS-based DB-centered real-life projects' application programming... I'd not mind to develop MS Access 2003/2007/MS Office front-end if my customer will demand that but I will very probably explain/prove to my customer that using VBA/VB6 for anything more than "gluing" MS Access/Office front-end would be waste of resources these days when we have VS2005 for several years and when VS2008 (and .NET Framework 3.5 etc.etc. related) are to be released real soon... One year ago from now I was more VB.NET-ish than C#-ish :) I'd not mind to become Ruby-in-Steel-ish (http://www.sapphiresteel.com/Steel-Download-and-Change-Log ) one year from now and to get really artistic and efficient with it as this Ruby-dance clip shows http://www.metacafe.com/watch/292734/ruby_dancing/ :) I could even get Iron-Python-ish (http://www.devrush.com/world_web_development/world_web_development_blogs/20 07_08_14_13_45_265/full_news ) real soon especially taking into account that I currently programming mainly ASP.NET applications... IOW I mean that right tool should be used for right job/task and that means for me that limiting myself to one programming language is looking here like a loosing strategy - that (limited oneself to use one programming language/tool for every job/task) would look like that - http://www.metacafe.com/watch/881053/penguin_goes_in_shop/ - yes, it's funny and rather efficient but it's not: as artistic and efficient as this http://www.metacafe.com/watch/780405/the_best_goals_ever/ ... and it's not as flexible and free to go in every direction (when needed/forced by market/customers' demands) as this http://www.metacafe.com/watch/788432/extreme_ballerina_stretching/ ... and it (use of one language/tool) is not as hacky/tricky as this http://www.metacafe.com/watch/828731/trigger_green_traffic_lights/ (very efficient on demand "simple' trick :))... and this http://www.metacafe.com/watch/835982/how_to_make_blood_appear_in_body_withou t_any_wound/ (I mean knowing "alchemy" - the best effective and flexible way to use the mix of the modern programming languages/technologies within VS) often helps to keep (new) customers coming etc.etc. :) ) IOW I'm voting/going for being proficient in several programming languages/technologies to be able to speed-up/slow-down when needed (http://www.metacafe.com/watch/880972/viewty/ ) but I'm also voting for/going to use VS IDE as the base (limiting) framework to stay focused on mainstream technologies/development tools, which VS IDE brings so plenty these days... But I'd mainly "limit" myself by VS IDE -enabled programming languages, technologies and .NET Framework for developing core functionality of my customers' applications because VS look like universal and efficient enough for the tasks I'm going to work on: the rest of the tasks if they come I'd subcontract to anybody else with pleasure... And then I (hope) I will have enough spare time for the pleasure of playing and watching tennis http://www.metacafe.com/watch/770613/maria_sharapova/ and traveling to watch the funny events like this one http://www.metacafe.com/watch/786303/bathroom_break/ :) Just wanted to make funny and joyful this becoming a little bit "religious" and boring thread... Sorry if my this posting may sound "religious and boring" for somebody here... Thanks :) -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 8:04 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB LOL! That was a hoot! -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby ... C#, J#, F#, c#, D#, E# Z# and A flat Minor. _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Oct 24 20:45:50 2007 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 18:45:50 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <6568A7509F5248339AF9C2EB443C7C51@creativesystemdesigns.com> I do not usually answer my own emails but... I must qualify my last comments as I was unaware of the product cost which had me fumbling for my oxygen mask as soon as I saw it. Fortunately there are evaluation copies available. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:12 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering that its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the speed of any .Net flavour. A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not impressed with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was required to write extensive notes in the code. His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 11:18 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB <<< ... C#, J#, F#, c#, D#, E# Z# and A flat Minor. >>> Hi All, Let's start building the Tower of Babylon? :) (Just a rhetoric introductory question of course...) I personally *currently* prefer C# for VS-based DB-centered real-life projects' application programming... I'd not mind to develop MS Access 2003/2007/MS Office front-end if my customer will demand that but I will very probably explain/prove to my customer that using VBA/VB6 for anything more than "gluing" MS Access/Office front-end would be waste of resources these days when we have VS2005 for several years and when VS2008 (and .NET Framework 3.5 etc.etc. related) are to be released real soon... One year ago from now I was more VB.NET-ish than C#-ish :) I'd not mind to become Ruby-in-Steel-ish (http://www.sapphiresteel.com/Steel-Download-and-Change-Log ) one year from now and to get really artistic and efficient with it as this Ruby-dance clip shows http://www.metacafe.com/watch/292734/ruby_dancing/ :) I could even get Iron-Python-ish (http://www.devrush.com/world_web_development/world_web_development_blogs/20 07_08_14_13_45_265/full_news ) real soon especially taking into account that I currently programming mainly ASP.NET applications... IOW I mean that right tool should be used for right job/task and that means for me that limiting myself to one programming language is looking here like a loosing strategy - that (limited oneself to use one programming language/tool for every job/task) would look like that - http://www.metacafe.com/watch/881053/penguin_goes_in_shop/ - yes, it's funny and rather efficient but it's not: as artistic and efficient as this http://www.metacafe.com/watch/780405/the_best_goals_ever/ ... and it's not as flexible and free to go in every direction (when needed/forced by market/customers' demands) as this http://www.metacafe.com/watch/788432/extreme_ballerina_stretching/ ... and it (use of one language/tool) is not as hacky/tricky as this http://www.metacafe.com/watch/828731/trigger_green_traffic_lights/ (very efficient on demand "simple' trick :))... and this http://www.metacafe.com/watch/835982/how_to_make_blood_appear_in_body_withou t_any_wound/ (I mean knowing "alchemy" - the best effective and flexible way to use the mix of the modern programming languages/technologies within VS) often helps to keep (new) customers coming etc.etc. :) ) IOW I'm voting/going for being proficient in several programming languages/technologies to be able to speed-up/slow-down when needed (http://www.metacafe.com/watch/880972/viewty/ ) but I'm also voting for/going to use VS IDE as the base (limiting) framework to stay focused on mainstream technologies/development tools, which VS IDE brings so plenty these days... But I'd mainly "limit" myself by VS IDE -enabled programming languages, technologies and .NET Framework for developing core functionality of my customers' applications because VS look like universal and efficient enough for the tasks I'm going to work on: the rest of the tasks if they come I'd subcontract to anybody else with pleasure... And then I (hope) I will have enough spare time for the pleasure of playing and watching tennis http://www.metacafe.com/watch/770613/maria_sharapova/ and traveling to watch the funny events like this one http://www.metacafe.com/watch/786303/bathroom_break/ :) Just wanted to make funny and joyful this becoming a little bit "religious" and boring thread... Sorry if my this posting may sound "religious and boring" for somebody here... Thanks :) -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 8:04 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB LOL! That was a hoot! -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby ... C#, J#, F#, c#, D#, E# Z# and A flat Minor. _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Wed Oct 24 21:08:57 2007 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Michael R Mattys) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 22:08:57 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB References: <6568A7509F5248339AF9C2EB443C7C51@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <01b101c816ac$03e319a0$0202a8c0@Laptop> Glad to hear some news on this, since I decided to go with PHP and its adodb data-abstraction layer add-on. I will use MySQL or SQLite for which this wrapper is used http://www.thecommon.net/2.html Michael R. Mattys MapPoint & Access Dev www.mattysconsulting.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 9:45 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB >I do not usually answer my own emails but... > > I must qualify my last comments as I was unaware of the product cost which > had me fumbling for my oxygen mask as soon as I saw it. > > Fortunately there are evaluation copies available. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:12 PM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering > that > its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the > speed of any .Net flavour. > > A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not impressed > with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was > required to write extensive notes in the code. > > His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: > http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ > > Jim > From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Oct 25 01:40:58 2007 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 23:40:58 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: <01b101c816ac$03e319a0$0202a8c0@Laptop> Message-ID: Hi Michael: That sounds like an excellent choice for a low cost development environment. Are you also planning to migrate to the Linux OS as well? Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael R Mattys Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 7:09 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Glad to hear some news on this, since I decided to go with PHP and its adodb data-abstraction layer add-on. I will use MySQL or SQLite for which this wrapper is used http://www.thecommon.net/2.html Michael R. Mattys MapPoint & Access Dev www.mattysconsulting.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 9:45 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB >I do not usually answer my own emails but... > > I must qualify my last comments as I was unaware of the product cost which > had me fumbling for my oxygen mask as soon as I saw it. > > Fortunately there are evaluation copies available. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:12 PM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering > that > its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the > speed of any .Net flavour. > > A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not impressed > with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was > required to write extensive notes in the code. > > His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: > http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ > > Jim > _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at users.mns.ru Thu Oct 25 01:48:08 2007 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 10:48:08 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: <6568A7509F5248339AF9C2EB443C7C51@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <000001c816d3$00905a70$6401a8c0@nant> <<< I was unaware of the product cost.... >>> Hi Jim. Yes, I have just checked the price - it looks unaffordable for small-/middle-size businesses. Yes, there is evaluation version but... I'd currently think that ASP.NET and C#/VB.NET(VS Express) + MS SQL 2005 Express/Access backend DB is the best ever available toolset for Web (and whatever else) real life business applications development... And they are free for download and use, aren't they?... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:46 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I do not usually answer my own emails but... I must qualify my last comments as I was unaware of the product cost which had me fumbling for my oxygen mask as soon as I saw it. Fortunately there are evaluation copies available. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:12 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering that its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the speed of any .Net flavour. A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not impressed with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was required to write extensive notes in the code. His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ Jim <<< tail of the message trimmed to preserve some cyberspace >>> From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Thu Oct 25 03:24:11 2007 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 04:24:11 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB References: <000001c816d3$00905a70$6401a8c0@nant> Message-ID: <000701c816e0$6c2aaa80$6b706c4c@jisshowsbs.local> Shamil ...yes, free!!! ...the express products value has been simply incredible for me ...I've yet to run into anything I could do with Access that I can't find a way to do with one or more of the express products ...and the amount/quality of code/support available on-line is every bit as good ...I still tend to model an app in Access first but I'm now starting to deliver in VS/SQL Server ...and the client sales are soooooo much easier in most cases. William ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shamil Salakhetdinov" To: Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 2:48 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > <<< > I was unaware of the product cost.... >>>> > Hi Jim. > > Yes, I have just checked the price - it looks unaffordable for > small-/middle-size businesses. Yes, there is evaluation version but... > > I'd currently think that ASP.NET and C#/VB.NET(VS Express) + MS SQL 2005 > Express/Access backend DB is the best ever available toolset for Web (and > whatever else) real life business applications development... > > And they are free for download and use, aren't they?... > > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:46 AM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > I do not usually answer my own emails but... > > I must qualify my last comments as I was unaware of the product cost which > had me fumbling for my oxygen mask as soon as I saw it. > > Fortunately there are evaluation copies available. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:12 PM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering > that > its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the > speed of any .Net flavour. > > A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not impressed > with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was > required to write extensive notes in the code. > > His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: > http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ > > Jim > > <<< tail of the message trimmed to preserve some cyberspace >>> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Oct 25 07:03:08 2007 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 14:03:08 +0200 Subject: [dba-VB] Browsing records (was: Renaming DBA-VB) Message-ID: Hi William Which control do you use for browsing records on forms? The default dataTableBindingNavigator? If so, have you managed to undock it so it can float? I have the GripStyle set to Visible, but the toolstrip is not to grip and move around. /gustav >>> wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com 25-10-2007 10:24 >>> Shamil ...yes, free!!! ...the express products value has been simply incredible for me ...I've yet to run into anything I could do with Access that I can't find a way to do with one or more of the express products ...and the amount/quality of code/support available on-line is every bit as good ...I still tend to model an app in Access first but I'm now starting to deliver in VS/SQL Server ...and the client sales are soooooo much easier in most cases. William ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shamil Salakhetdinov" To: Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 2:48 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > <<< > I was unaware of the product cost.... >>>> > Hi Jim. > > Yes, I have just checked the price - it looks unaffordable for > small-/middle-size businesses. Yes, there is evaluation version but... > > I'd currently think that ASP.NET and C#/VB.NET(VS Express) + MS SQL 2005 > Express/Access backend DB is the best ever available toolset for Web (and > whatever else) real life business applications development... > > And they are free for download and use, aren't they?... > > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:46 AM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > I do not usually answer my own emails but... > > I must qualify my last comments as I was unaware of the product cost which > had me fumbling for my oxygen mask as soon as I saw it. > > Fortunately there are evaluation copies available. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:12 PM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering > that > its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the > speed of any .Net flavour. > > A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not impressed > with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was > required to write extensive notes in the code. > > His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: > http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ > > Jim From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Thu Oct 25 07:15:07 2007 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Michael R Mattys) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 08:15:07 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB References: Message-ID: <01f701c81700$af43e3c0$0202a8c0@Laptop> Jim, I don't have plans to work with Linux yet, but I certainly would like to learn it. Michael R. Mattys MapPoint & Access Dev www.mattysconsulting.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence" To: Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 2:40 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > Hi Michael: > > That sounds like an excellent choice for a low cost development > environment. > Are you also planning to migrate to the Linux OS as well? > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael R Mattys > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 7:09 PM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > Glad to hear some news on this, since I decided to go with PHP > and its adodb data-abstraction layer add-on. > > I will use MySQL or SQLite for which this wrapper is used > http://www.thecommon.net/2.html > > Michael R. Mattys > MapPoint & Access Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim Lawrence" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 9:45 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > >>I do not usually answer my own emails but... >> >> I must qualify my last comments as I was unaware of the product cost >> which >> had me fumbling for my oxygen mask as soon as I saw it. >> >> Fortunately there are evaluation copies available. >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence >> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:12 PM >> To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB >> >> I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering >> that >> its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the >> speed of any .Net flavour. >> >> A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not >> impressed >> with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was >> required to write extensive notes in the code. >> >> His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: >> http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ >> >> Jim >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at users.mns.ru Thu Oct 25 07:50:30 2007 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 16:50:30 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: <000701c816e0$6c2aaa80$6b706c4c@jisshowsbs.local> Message-ID: <000b01c81705$a040b650$6401a8c0@nant> Yes, William, And there are no hidden costs (?), are there? (I assume that MS Windows is the target platform of course...) And the move from VBA/VB6 to VB2005 (and C# 2.0) is usually smooth because there so many analogies between WinForms/ASP.Net and MS Access forms programming and because VB2005/C# 2.0 has all VBA/VB6 built-in functions implemented etc. ... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 12:24 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Shamil ...yes, free!!! ...the express products value has been simply incredible for me ...I've yet to run into anything I could do with Access that I can't find a way to do with one or more of the express products ...and the amount/quality of code/support available on-line is every bit as good ...I still tend to model an app in Access first but I'm now starting to deliver in VS/SQL Server ...and the client sales are soooooo much easier in most cases. William ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shamil Salakhetdinov" To: Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 2:48 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > <<< > I was unaware of the product cost.... >>>> > Hi Jim. > > Yes, I have just checked the price - it looks unaffordable for > small-/middle-size businesses. Yes, there is evaluation version but... > > I'd currently think that ASP.NET and C#/VB.NET(VS Express) + MS SQL 2005 > Express/Access backend DB is the best ever available toolset for Web (and > whatever else) real life business applications development... > > And they are free for download and use, aren't they?... > > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:46 AM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > I do not usually answer my own emails but... > > I must qualify my last comments as I was unaware of the product cost which > had me fumbling for my oxygen mask as soon as I saw it. > > Fortunately there are evaluation copies available. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:12 PM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering > that > its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the > speed of any .Net flavour. > > A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not impressed > with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was > required to write extensive notes in the code. > > His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: > http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ > > Jim > > <<< tail of the message trimmed to preserve some cyberspace >>> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at users.mns.ru Thu Oct 25 07:58:47 2007 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 16:58:47 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Browsing records (was: Renaming DBA-VB) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001201c81706$c8593030$6401a8c0@nant> Hi Gustav, Just set Dock style to None and then you can freely move and place xBindingNavigator whenever you wanted to have it on a WinForm... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 4:03 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] Browsing records (was: Renaming DBA-VB) Hi William Which control do you use for browsing records on forms? The default dataTableBindingNavigator? If so, have you managed to undock it so it can float? I have the GripStyle set to Visible, but the toolstrip is not to grip and move around. /gustav >>> wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com 25-10-2007 10:24 >>> Shamil ...yes, free!!! ...the express products value has been simply incredible for me ...I've yet to run into anything I could do with Access that I can't find a way to do with one or more of the express products ...and the amount/quality of code/support available on-line is every bit as good ...I still tend to model an app in Access first but I'm now starting to deliver in VS/SQL Server ...and the client sales are soooooo much easier in most cases. William ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shamil Salakhetdinov" To: Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 2:48 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > <<< > I was unaware of the product cost.... >>>> > Hi Jim. > > Yes, I have just checked the price - it looks unaffordable for > small-/middle-size businesses. Yes, there is evaluation version but... > > I'd currently think that ASP.NET and C#/VB.NET(VS Express) + MS SQL 2005 > Express/Access backend DB is the best ever available toolset for Web (and > whatever else) real life business applications development... > > And they are free for download and use, aren't they?... > > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:46 AM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > I do not usually answer my own emails but... > > I must qualify my last comments as I was unaware of the product cost which > had me fumbling for my oxygen mask as soon as I saw it. > > Fortunately there are evaluation copies available. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:12 PM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering > that > its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the > speed of any .Net flavour. > > A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not impressed > with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was > required to write extensive notes in the code. > > His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: > http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ > > Jim _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Oct 25 08:21:29 2007 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 15:21:29 +0200 Subject: [dba-VB] Browsing records (was: Renaming DBA-VB) Message-ID: Hi Shamil Yes, but in design mode only. I thought, having the dotted grip farmost left visible, the user could drag the control around with the mouse- as you can do with a toolbar in Access? /gustav >>> shamil at users.mns.ru 25-10-2007 14:58 >>> Hi Gustav, Just set Dock style to None and then you can freely move and place xBindingNavigator whenever you wanted to have it on a WinForm... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 4:03 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] Browsing records (was: Renaming DBA-VB) Hi William Which control do you use for browsing records on forms? The default dataTableBindingNavigator? If so, have you managed to undock it so it can float? I have the GripStyle set to Visible, but the toolstrip is not to grip and move around. /gustav From shamil at users.mns.ru Thu Oct 25 09:14:50 2007 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 18:14:50 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Browsing records (was: Renaming DBA-VB) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001101c81711$6926c310$6401a8c0@nant> Hi Gustav, I do not know about this feature - I'd expect for that kind of stuff you'll need to purchase third-party controls as e.g. http://www.divil.co.uk/net/controls/sandribbon/ ... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:21 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Browsing records (was: Renaming DBA-VB) Hi Shamil Yes, but in design mode only. I thought, having the dotted grip farmost left visible, the user could drag the control around with the mouse- as you can do with a toolbar in Access? /gustav >>> shamil at users.mns.ru 25-10-2007 14:58 >>> Hi Gustav, Just set Dock style to None and then you can freely move and place xBindingNavigator whenever you wanted to have it on a WinForm... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 4:03 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] Browsing records (was: Renaming DBA-VB) Hi William Which control do you use for browsing records on forms? The default dataTableBindingNavigator? If so, have you managed to undock it so it can float? I have the GripStyle set to Visible, but the toolstrip is not to grip and move around. /gustav _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Oct 25 10:05:13 2007 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 17:05:13 +0200 Subject: [dba-VB] Browsing records (was: Renaming DBA-VB) Message-ID: Hi Shamil That I could do, but I just wondered what the grip is for if the control cannot be moved around? The control as is, is fine for most tasks. /gustav >>> shamil at users.mns.ru 25-10-2007 16:14 >>> Hi Gustav, I do not know about this feature - I'd expect for that kind of stuff you'll need to purchase third-party controls as e.g. http://www.divil.co.uk/net/controls/sandribbon/ ... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:21 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Browsing records (was: Renaming DBA-VB) Hi Shamil Yes, but in design mode only. I thought, having the dotted grip farmost left visible, the user could drag the control around with the mouse- as you can do with a toolbar in Access? /gustav >>> shamil at users.mns.ru 25-10-2007 14:58 >>> Hi Gustav, Just set Dock style to None and then you can freely move and place xBindingNavigator whenever you wanted to have it on a WinForm... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 4:03 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] Browsing records (was: Renaming DBA-VB) Hi William Which control do you use for browsing records on forms? The default dataTableBindingNavigator? If so, have you managed to undock it so it can float? I have the GripStyle set to Visible, but the toolstrip is not to grip and move around. /gustav From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Thu Oct 25 11:57:55 2007 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 12:57:55 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB References: <000b01c81705$a040b650$6401a8c0@nant> Message-ID: <002b01c81728$30c1ff50$6b706c4c@jisshowsbs.local> ...I don't see any hidden costs in my work as yet ...I've converted a mid sized Access app for a client to a browser based one running on his intranet with .net3 and VWDE ...the open source Ajax Control Tool Kit along with MS's control extension abilities and SSE go together like peanutbutter and jelly ...once you have the pieces in place and have worked through a few samples, its almost as easy as Access ...but you get really good speed from a server based app with the advantages of SQL Server as well. ...granted that I've not ventured far from the beaten path as you and Gustav are wont to do but then I'm still wondering why I waited so long, eh ...in all honesty I'd still be plugging away at vb if it weren't for all the sample code out there pulished in both vb and c# making it apparent that even a hack like me could write reasonably acceptable C# code. ...and you are definitely right about the similarities in writing code, designing forms, etc ...dotnet2 and above has so much built into the framework that one of the major advantages of Access, at least it always was to me, simply no longer applies ...once you sync your brain with the object inheritence paradyme, I'm convinced that I'm actually writing less code and getting more from it. ...and every line, every form, every table are all free, MS tool based ...and they still get all the pros and cons of being part of the MS software stable ...my only concern right now is that MS will back off the express product line because there are so many like me who no longer need to invest thousands in their development tools every year ...with the client I mentioned above, the rationale behind standardizing on MS Office no longer exists and converting to one of the Open Office products is a real possibility ...that's a threat to the MS bread & butter. William ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shamil Salakhetdinov" To: Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 8:50 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > Yes, William, > > And there are no hidden costs (?), are there? (I assume that MS Windows is > the target platform of course...) > > And the move from VBA/VB6 to VB2005 (and C# 2.0) is usually smooth because > there so many analogies between WinForms/ASP.Net and MS Access forms > programming and because VB2005/C# 2.0 has all VBA/VB6 built-in functions > implemented etc. ... > > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman > Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 12:24 PM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > Shamil > > ...yes, free!!! ...the express products value has been simply incredible > for > > me ...I've yet to run into anything I could do with Access that I can't > find > > a way to do with one or more of the express products ...and the > amount/quality of code/support available on-line is every bit as good ...I > still tend to model an app in Access first but I'm now starting to deliver > in VS/SQL Server ...and the client sales are soooooo much easier in most > cases. > > William > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Shamil Salakhetdinov" > To: > Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 2:48 AM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > >> <<< >> I was unaware of the product cost.... >>>>> >> Hi Jim. >> >> Yes, I have just checked the price - it looks unaffordable for >> small-/middle-size businesses. Yes, there is evaluation version but... >> >> I'd currently think that ASP.NET and C#/VB.NET(VS Express) + MS SQL 2005 >> Express/Access backend DB is the best ever available toolset for Web (and >> whatever else) real life business applications development... >> >> And they are free for download and use, aren't they?... >> >> >> -- >> Shamil >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence >> Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:46 AM >> To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB >> >> I do not usually answer my own emails but... >> >> I must qualify my last comments as I was unaware of the product cost >> which >> had me fumbling for my oxygen mask as soon as I saw it. >> >> Fortunately there are evaluation copies available. >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence >> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:12 PM >> To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB >> >> I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering >> that >> its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the >> speed of any .Net flavour. >> >> A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not >> impressed >> with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was >> required to write extensive notes in the code. >> >> His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: >> http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ >> >> Jim >> >> <<< tail of the message trimmed to preserve some cyberspace >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-VB mailing list >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Thu Oct 25 12:00:10 2007 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 13:00:10 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Browsing records (was: Renaming DBA-VB) References: Message-ID: <002f01c81728$81133730$6b706c4c@jisshowsbs.local> Gustav ...sorry, hadn't even thought of trying that yet ...still getting my feet wet here ...the soles, eh :) William ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 8:03 AM Subject: [dba-VB] Browsing records (was: Renaming DBA-VB) > Hi William > > Which control do you use for browsing records on forms? The default > dataTableBindingNavigator? > If so, have you managed to undock it so it can float? I have the GripStyle > set to Visible, but the toolstrip is not to grip and move around. > > /gustav > >>>> wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com 25-10-2007 10:24 >>> > Shamil > > ...yes, free!!! ...the express products value has been simply incredible > for > me ...I've yet to run into anything I could do with Access that I can't > find > a way to do with one or more of the express products ...and the > amount/quality of code/support available on-line is every bit as good ...I > still tend to model an app in Access first but I'm now starting to deliver > in VS/SQL Server ...and the client sales are soooooo much easier in most > cases. > > William > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Shamil Salakhetdinov" > To: > Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 2:48 AM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > >> <<< >> I was unaware of the product cost.... >>>>> >> Hi Jim. >> >> Yes, I have just checked the price - it looks unaffordable for >> small-/middle-size businesses. Yes, there is evaluation version but... >> >> I'd currently think that ASP.NET and C#/VB.NET(VS Express) + MS SQL 2005 >> Express/Access backend DB is the best ever available toolset for Web (and >> whatever else) real life business applications development... >> >> And they are free for download and use, aren't they?... >> >> >> -- >> Shamil >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence >> Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:46 AM >> To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB >> >> I do not usually answer my own emails but... >> >> I must qualify my last comments as I was unaware of the product cost >> which >> had me fumbling for my oxygen mask as soon as I saw it. >> >> Fortunately there are evaluation copies available. >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence >> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:12 PM >> To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB >> >> I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering >> that >> its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the >> speed of any .Net flavour. >> >> A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not >> impressed >> with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was >> required to write extensive notes in the code. >> >> His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: >> http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ >> >> Jim > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Oct 25 12:18:08 2007 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 10:18:08 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: <000001c816d3$00905a70$6401a8c0@nant> Message-ID: <399F05E3795142BAB07BC21F4B78795B@creativesystemdesigns.com> Shamil... you are correct in all that. This friend who is strongly recommending Eiffel is planning on leaving his current job soon and as his wife now has an excellent job at the college and he has decided to go freelance. He wants to work with me on projects and is planning on buying a full licensed version.... To make a short story long I may be becoming an Eiffel guru whether I want to or not. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 11:48 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB <<< I was unaware of the product cost.... >>> Hi Jim. Yes, I have just checked the price - it looks unaffordable for small-/middle-size businesses. Yes, there is evaluation version but... I'd currently think that ASP.NET and C#/VB.NET(VS Express) + MS SQL 2005 Express/Access backend DB is the best ever available toolset for Web (and whatever else) real life business applications development... And they are free for download and use, aren't they?... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:46 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I do not usually answer my own emails but... I must qualify my last comments as I was unaware of the product cost which had me fumbling for my oxygen mask as soon as I saw it. Fortunately there are evaluation copies available. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:12 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering that its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the speed of any .Net flavour. A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not impressed with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was required to write extensive notes in the code. His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ Jim <<< tail of the message trimmed to preserve some cyberspace >>> _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Oct 25 12:18:02 2007 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 19:18:02 +0200 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Message-ID: Hi Jim Interesting. Perhaps your friend could tell us briefly about the highlights of Eiffel? Why is it worth the money? /gustav >>> accessd at shaw.ca 25-10-2007 19:18 >>> Shamil... you are correct in all that. This friend who is strongly recommending Eiffel is planning on leaving his current job soon and as his wife now has an excellent job at the college and he has decided to go freelance. He wants to work with me on projects and is planning on buying a full licensed version.... To make a short story long I may be becoming an Eiffel guru whether I want to or not. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 11:48 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB <<< I was unaware of the product cost.... >>> Hi Jim. Yes, I have just checked the price - it looks unaffordable for small-/middle-size businesses. Yes, there is evaluation version but... I'd currently think that ASP.NET and C#/VB.NET(VS Express) + MS SQL 2005 Express/Access backend DB is the best ever available toolset for Web (and whatever else) real life business applications development... And they are free for download and use, aren't they?... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:46 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I do not usually answer my own emails but... I must qualify my last comments as I was unaware of the product cost which had me fumbling for my oxygen mask as soon as I saw it. Fortunately there are evaluation copies available. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:12 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering that its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the speed of any .Net flavour. A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not impressed with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was required to write extensive notes in the code. His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ Jim From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Oct 25 12:44:49 2007 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 10:44:49 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Gustav: I am not qualified to give comment of the Eiffel product myself as all my knowledge is second hand but I have passed your query on to my friend and when he responds I will post his email here. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 10:18 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Hi Jim Interesting. Perhaps your friend could tell us briefly about the highlights of Eiffel? Why is it worth the money? /gustav >>> accessd at shaw.ca 25-10-2007 19:18 >>> Shamil... you are correct in all that. This friend who is strongly recommending Eiffel is planning on leaving his current job soon and as his wife now has an excellent job at the college and he has decided to go freelance. He wants to work with me on projects and is planning on buying a full licensed version.... To make a short story long I may be becoming an Eiffel guru whether I want to or not. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 11:48 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB <<< I was unaware of the product cost.... >>> Hi Jim. Yes, I have just checked the price - it looks unaffordable for small-/middle-size businesses. Yes, there is evaluation version but... I'd currently think that ASP.NET and C#/VB.NET(VS Express) + MS SQL 2005 Express/Access backend DB is the best ever available toolset for Web (and whatever else) real life business applications development... And they are free for download and use, aren't they?... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:46 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I do not usually answer my own emails but... I must qualify my last comments as I was unaware of the product cost which had me fumbling for my oxygen mask as soon as I saw it. Fortunately there are evaluation copies available. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:12 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering that its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the speed of any .Net flavour. A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not impressed with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was required to write extensive notes in the code. His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ Jim _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at users.mns.ru Thu Oct 25 13:48:39 2007 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 22:48:39 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: <399F05E3795142BAB07BC21F4B78795B@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <000001c81737$a8c4f7a0$6401a8c0@nant> Hi Jim, Yes, Eiffel looks like a very advanced programming language but going freelance "armored" with Eiffel doesn't this sound very ambitious?... I mean risky... Or your friend has a good customer base who will for sure supply him and you with Eiffel based software development for many years ahead? Then you should be safe... I remember quite some time ago I did develop software using truly 4G OO DataFlex programming language: that was a real fun to program but then I had found that MS Access 1.1 allows me to achieve better results in shorter time but using "ugly" VBA coding - and I switched to MS Access 1.1 VBA to make money for living, better money than truly 4G OO DataFlex allowed me to make before... I mean C# and VB.NET with every new version are obviously acquiring the best features of the other modern state-of-the-art programming languages as e.g. Eiffel is: in 5(?) years it will be not easy to distinguish C# from Eiffel and VB.Net from Ruby (not by their syntax but by their expressive power)... And I wonder what currently Eiffel can give for real business applications software development, which can't be done using C#/VB.NET maybe a little bit less effective but just a little bit?... Yes, as Gustav, I'd be also very interested to hear your friend's opinion why he is going to "bet on Eiffel"?... Thanks. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 9:18 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Shamil... you are correct in all that. This friend who is strongly recommending Eiffel is planning on leaving his current job soon and as his wife now has an excellent job at the college and he has decided to go freelance. He wants to work with me on projects and is planning on buying a full licensed version.... To make a short story long I may be becoming an Eiffel guru whether I want to or not. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 11:48 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB <<< I was unaware of the product cost.... >>> Hi Jim. Yes, I have just checked the price - it looks unaffordable for small-/middle-size businesses. Yes, there is evaluation version but... I'd currently think that ASP.NET and C#/VB.NET(VS Express) + MS SQL 2005 Express/Access backend DB is the best ever available toolset for Web (and whatever else) real life business applications development... And they are free for download and use, aren't they?... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:46 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I do not usually answer my own emails but... I must qualify my last comments as I was unaware of the product cost which had me fumbling for my oxygen mask as soon as I saw it. Fortunately there are evaluation copies available. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:12 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering that its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the speed of any .Net flavour. A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not impressed with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was required to write extensive notes in the code. His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ Jim <<< tail of the message trimmed to preserve some cyberspace >>> _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at users.mns.ru Thu Oct 25 14:44:40 2007 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 23:44:40 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Using the ASP.NET 2.0 membership, roles etc. providers in .NET console and WinForms applicatons... Message-ID: <000001c8173f$7c0db230$6401a8c0@nant> Hi All, Did anybody use the subject feature? If not here is the good news: <<< Using the ASP.NET membership provider in a Windows forms application http://www.theproblemsolver.nl/usingthemembershipproviderinwinforms.htm >>> But even better news is that one can use section in app.config file to define ASP.NET membership, roles (etc.? I did test the first tow only because I need them currently) providers by thus having a centralized (MS SQL) store to keep applications' membership, roles etc. "standard asp.net way" and to use them in all .NET based not only asp.net applications... I didn't find any article describing this useful feature - did you? Thanks. -- Shamil From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Oct 25 15:32:20 2007 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 13:32:20 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Gustav: As promised here is a reply from my friend: Hi, Jim: The ISE Eiffel website is www.eiffel.com. Note that they now have a dual licensing model for EiffelStudio (the stand-alone workbench), so one can use it free for open source software. There is Eiffel for ASP.net which is *free* - we need to check this out! There is also a .net plugin for Visual Studio (EiffelEnvision) that is not too pricey ($US 1799). Why would we be interested in this beast? - The enterprise versions include visual round-trip engineering tools - The language is very high level, so you can get a lot of mileage with very little code - It works with .net and stand-alone on several platforms - It has design-by-contract, which really helps to reduce bugs - It has simple and powerful multiple inheritance and genericity (none of the "interface" crap that passes for o-o in most other languages) - It has delayed calls (aka "closures") - It has a powerful reflection api - It is really easy to learn because it is so straightforward and logical - It has built-in doc that blows away the competition After coding in Java for a year, I am more than ready to jump ship to Eiffel myself! I would recommend also checking out Gnu SmartEiffel - see http://smarteiffel.loria.fr/index.html Another good link: www.eiffelroom.com It has articles, blogs etc on eiffel. Here is an article from there that helps to show its amazing power: http://www.eiffelroom.com/article/fun_with_generics Best regards, Yigal Hope you find this useful. If you need further details that is also easy to provide. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 10:45 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Hi Gustav: I am not qualified to give comment of the Eiffel product myself as all my knowledge is second hand but I have passed your query on to my friend and when he responds I will post his email here. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 10:18 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Hi Jim Interesting. Perhaps your friend could tell us briefly about the highlights of Eiffel? Why is it worth the money? /gustav >>> accessd at shaw.ca 25-10-2007 19:18 >>> Shamil... you are correct in all that. This friend who is strongly recommending Eiffel is planning on leaving his current job soon and as his wife now has an excellent job at the college and he has decided to go freelance. He wants to work with me on projects and is planning on buying a full licensed version.... To make a short story long I may be becoming an Eiffel guru whether I want to or not. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 11:48 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB <<< I was unaware of the product cost.... >>> Hi Jim. Yes, I have just checked the price - it looks unaffordable for small-/middle-size businesses. Yes, there is evaluation version but... I'd currently think that ASP.NET and C#/VB.NET(VS Express) + MS SQL 2005 Express/Access backend DB is the best ever available toolset for Web (and whatever else) real life business applications development... And they are free for download and use, aren't they?... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:46 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I do not usually answer my own emails but... I must qualify my last comments as I was unaware of the product cost which had me fumbling for my oxygen mask as soon as I saw it. Fortunately there are evaluation copies available. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:12 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering that its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the speed of any .Net flavour. A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not impressed with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was required to write extensive notes in the code. His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ Jim _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Oct 25 15:47:20 2007 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 13:47:20 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Using the ASP.NET 2.0 membership, roles etc. providers in .NET console and WinForms applicatons... In-Reply-To: <000001c8173f$7c0db230$6401a8c0@nant> Message-ID: Thanks Shamil for that piece of information. I was planning for it but sure where to look. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 12:45 PM To: 'Access-D - VB' Subject: [dba-VB] Using the ASP.NET 2.0 membership,roles etc. providers in .NET console and WinForms applicatons... Hi All, Did anybody use the subject feature? If not here is the good news: <<< Using the ASP.NET membership provider in a Windows forms application http://www.theproblemsolver.nl/usingthemembershipproviderinwinforms.htm >>> But even better news is that one can use section in app.config file to define ASP.NET membership, roles (etc.? I did test the first tow only because I need them currently) providers by thus having a centralized (MS SQL) store to keep applications' membership, roles etc. "standard asp.net way" and to use them in all .NET based not only asp.net applications... I didn't find any article describing this useful feature - did you? Thanks. -- Shamil _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From robert at webedb.com Thu Oct 25 15:53:56 2007 From: robert at webedb.com (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 15:53:56 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] Using the ASP.NET 2.0 membership, roles etc. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200710252056.l9PKuphV029092@databaseadvisors.com> The roles/membership stuff is currently available only in ASP.net pages. But, in VS 2008, it will also be available in WinForm/Smart Client applications. Robert At 03:42 PM 10/25/2007, you wrote: >Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 23:44:40 +0400 >From: "Shamil Salakhetdinov" >Subject: [dba-VB] Using the ASP.NET 2.0 membership, roles etc. > providers in .NET console and WinForms applicatons... >To: "'Access-D - VB'" >Message-ID: <000001c8173f$7c0db230$6401a8c0 at nant> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > >Hi All, > >Did anybody use the subject feature? > >If not here is the good news: > ><<< >Using the ASP.NET membership provider in a Windows forms application >http://www.theproblemsolver.nl/usingthemembershipproviderinwinforms.htm > >>> > >But even better news is that one can use section in app.config >file to define ASP.NET membership, roles (etc.? I did test the first tow >only because I need them currently) providers by thus having a centralized >(MS SQL) store to keep applications' membership, roles etc. "standard >asp.net way" and to use them in all .NET based not only asp.net >applications... > >I didn't find any article describing this useful feature - did you? > >Thanks. > >-- From shamil at users.mns.ru Thu Oct 25 16:21:53 2007 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 01:21:53 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Using the ASP.NET 2.0 membership, roles etc. In-Reply-To: <200710252056.l9PKuphV029092@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <000101c8174d$1066c3b0$6401a8c0@nant> Hi Robert, The below test C# code seems to work well in VS2005 console application with app.config defining system.web section with membership and role providers referring MS SQL database defined in connectionStrings section: //+ user public class TestRolesAndUsersInConsoleApp { public static void Test() { try { //' Creating a new user string userName = "user1"; string userName2 = "user2"; string password = "test"; string email = "test at mail.ru"; string passwordQuestion = "Password question"; string passwordQuestionAnswer = "test"; string roleName = "Developers"; System.Web.Security.MembershipUser user = null; MembershipCreateStatus status; if (System.Web.Security.Membership.ValidateUser(userName, password)) { System.Web.Security.Membership.DeleteUser(userName, true); Console.WriteLine("User " + userName + " - deleted."); } if (System.Web.Security.Membership.ValidateUser(userName2, password)) { System.Web.Security.Membership.DeleteUser(userName2, true); Console.WriteLine("User " + userName2 + " - deleted."); } if (System.Web.Security.Roles.RoleExists(roleName)) { System.Web.Security.Roles.DeleteRole(roleName); Console.WriteLine("Role " + roleName + " - deleted."); } user = System.Web.Security.Membership.CreateUser(userName, password, email, passwordQuestion, passwordQuestionAnswer, true, out status); if (status == MembershipCreateStatus.Success) { int aa = 1; } //' Validate a username/passworduserName if (System.Web.Security.Membership.ValidateUser(userName, password)) Console.WriteLine(userName + " - User validated. " + status.ToString() ); else Console.WriteLine(userName + " - User invalid! "); //' Create a new Developer role. //' Add the to the app.config for this to work if (!System.Web.Security.Roles.RoleExists(roleName)) { System.Web.Security.Roles.CreateRole(roleName); } //' Add a new role to a known user. if (!System.Web.Security.Roles.IsUserInRole(userName, roleName)) { System.Web.Security.Roles.AddUserToRole(userName, roleName); } if (!System.Web.Security.Roles.IsUserInRole(userName, roleName)) { Console.WriteLine(userName + " added to role " + roleName); System.Web.Security.Roles.AddUserToRole(userName, roleName); } //' Create a second user with only username/password //' Add the element to the app.config first user = System.Web.Security.Membership.GetUser(userName2); if (user == null) { user = System.Web.Security.Membership.CreateUser(userName2, password); System.Web.Security.Roles.AddUserToRole(userName2, roleName); Console.WriteLine("Created user: " + user.UserName); } //' Set the current application principal information to a known user System.Security.Principal.GenericIdentity identity; RolePrincipal principal; user = System.Web.Security.Membership.GetUser(userName); identity = new System.Security.Principal.GenericIdentity(user.UserName); principal = new System.Web.Security.RolePrincipal(identity); System.Threading.Thread.CurrentPrincipal = principal; //' Check if the current principal is in a specific role Console.Write(System.Threading.Thread.CurrentPrincipal.Identity.Name); if (System.Web.Security.Roles.IsUserInRole(roleName)) Console.WriteLine(" Is a developer."); else Console.WriteLine(" Doesn't write code."); //' Set the current application principal information to another known user user = System.Web.Security.Membership.GetUser(userName2); identity = new GenericIdentity(user.UserName); principal = new RolePrincipal(identity); System.Threading.Thread.CurrentPrincipal = principal; //' Use the principal to check for role information Console.Write(System.Threading.Thread.CurrentPrincipal.Identity.Name); if (System.Threading.Thread.CurrentPrincipal.IsInRole(roleName)) Console.WriteLine(" is a developer."); else Console.WriteLine(" doesn't write code."); //+ delete if (System.Web.Security.Membership.ValidateUser(userName, password)) { System.Web.Security.Membership.DeleteUser(userName, true); Console.WriteLine("User " + userName + " - deleted."); } if (System.Web.Security.Membership.ValidateUser(userName2, password)) { System.Web.Security.Membership.DeleteUser(userName2, true); Console.WriteLine("User " + userName2 + " - deleted."); } if (System.Web.Security.Roles.RoleExists(roleName)) { System.Web.Security.Roles.DeleteRole(roleName); Console.WriteLine("Role " + roleName + " - deleted."); } //- delete Console.ReadLine(); } catch (Exception ex) { Console.WriteLine(ex.Message); } } } //- user -- Shamil P.S. app.config for console app's test class above looks like that (watch line wraps): -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Stewart Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 12:54 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Using the ASP.NET 2.0 membership, roles etc. The roles/membership stuff is currently available only in ASP.net pages. But, in VS 2008, it will also be available in WinForm/Smart Client applications. Robert <<< tail skipped >>> From shamil at users.mns.ru Thu Oct 25 16:56:44 2007 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 01:56:44 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000501c81751$ef7d3850$6401a8c0@nant> <<< - It has delayed calls (aka "closures") >>> Hi Jim, What are these "delayed calls"? - I'm wondering what real projects development tasks they help to solve effectively? I'm nor arguing with you and your friend nor am I trying to start a discussion C# vs. Eiffel - I'm just wondering what are these attractive Eiffel features your friend mentioned, which I'm unaware about, how useful they are in business applications development and how can one simulate them by using e.g. C# or C++/CLI.... "Multiple inheritance" and genericity - well, C# doesn't have multiple inheritance but C# has Generics - aren't they enough for most of the real business tasks programming? If not - then for rhat kind of tasks one can use C++/CLI with all its power of multiple inheritance and C++ templates etc. ? (C++/CLI is not free but it's available in e.g. MS Empower program package, which is not that expensive...) I'd think that "design-by-contract" will not help to reduce that much the bugs without good (unit) test coverage but when good test coverage exists what is the use of "design-by-contract"? "built-in doc that blows away the competition" - what is that? "visual round-trip engineering tools" - what are that? Forward-/reverse-engineering for UML(?) object diagrams... <<< Here is an article from there that helps to show its amazing power: http://www.eiffelroom.com/article/fun_with_generics >>> Jim, C# has Generics with static casting, when one will want to do something more tricky they can well generate and compile and bind C# code and classes and objects instances on-the-fly... ...but IMO this referred article titled "Fun with Generics" doesn't give any real life applications samples where dynamic Generics casting existing in Eiffel (and lacking in C# and Java) - where this dynamic Generics casting is really needed? Does your friend have such samples, which can be looked through? ... Thanks. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 12:32 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Hi Gustav: As promised here is a reply from my friend: Hi, Jim: The ISE Eiffel website is www.eiffel.com. Note that they now have a dual licensing model for EiffelStudio (the stand-alone workbench), so one can use it free for open source software. There is Eiffel for ASP.net which is *free* - we need to check this out! There is also a .net plugin for Visual Studio (EiffelEnvision) that is not too pricey ($US 1799). Why would we be interested in this beast? - The enterprise versions include visual round-trip engineering tools - The language is very high level, so you can get a lot of mileage with very little code - It works with .net and stand-alone on several platforms - It has design-by-contract, which really helps to reduce bugs - It has simple and powerful multiple inheritance and genericity (none of the "interface" crap that passes for o-o in most other languages) - It has delayed calls (aka "closures") - It has a powerful reflection api - It is really easy to learn because it is so straightforward and logical - It has built-in doc that blows away the competition After coding in Java for a year, I am more than ready to jump ship to Eiffel myself! I would recommend also checking out Gnu SmartEiffel - see http://smarteiffel.loria.fr/index.html Another good link: www.eiffelroom.com It has articles, blogs etc on eiffel. Here is an article from there that helps to show its amazing power: http://www.eiffelroom.com/article/fun_with_generics Best regards, Yigal Hope you find this useful. If you need further details that is also easy to provide. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 10:45 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Hi Gustav: I am not qualified to give comment of the Eiffel product myself as all my knowledge is second hand but I have passed your query on to my friend and when he responds I will post his email here. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 10:18 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Hi Jim Interesting. Perhaps your friend could tell us briefly about the highlights of Eiffel? Why is it worth the money? /gustav >>> accessd at shaw.ca 25-10-2007 19:18 >>> Shamil... you are correct in all that. This friend who is strongly recommending Eiffel is planning on leaving his current job soon and as his wife now has an excellent job at the college and he has decided to go freelance. He wants to work with me on projects and is planning on buying a full licensed version.... To make a short story long I may be becoming an Eiffel guru whether I want to or not. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 11:48 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB <<< I was unaware of the product cost.... >>> Hi Jim. Yes, I have just checked the price - it looks unaffordable for small-/middle-size businesses. Yes, there is evaluation version but... I'd currently think that ASP.NET and C#/VB.NET(VS Express) + MS SQL 2005 Express/Access backend DB is the best ever available toolset for Web (and whatever else) real life business applications development... And they are free for download and use, aren't they?... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:46 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I do not usually answer my own emails but... I must qualify my last comments as I was unaware of the product cost which had me fumbling for my oxygen mask as soon as I saw it. Fortunately there are evaluation copies available. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:12 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering that its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the speed of any .Net flavour. A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not impressed with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was required to write extensive notes in the code. His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ Jim _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Oct 26 00:28:54 2007 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 22:28:54 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: <000501c81751$ef7d3850$6401a8c0@nant> Message-ID: <3AFD7B393DB846058FE4CB0DD02A02F4@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Shamil: Comments and replies from my friend and myself are provided inline. >What are these "delayed calls"? - I'm wondering what real projects >development tasks they help to solve effectively? C# 2.0 has these - they are called "anonymous delegates". Most modern languages now have them in one form or another. I recommend googling for "closures in " and just reading about them... (My comment: it is like an enhanced call-back.) >I'm not arguing with you and your friend nor am I trying to start a >discussion C# vs. Eiffel - I'm just wondering what are these attractive >Eiffel features your friend mentioned, which I'm unaware about, how useful >they are in business applications development and how can one simulate them >by using e.g. C# or C++/CLI.... Let's face it - anything you can do in Eiffel can also be done effectively in just about any current language. For me, it comes down to one simple thing: Eiffel provides a more direct path from the concept to the implementation. Take a look at www.eiffel.com and check out the various blurbs and then download the free version and try it out ;0) >"Multiple inheritance" and genericity - well, C# doesn't have multiple >inheritance but C# has Generics - aren't they enough for most of the real >business tasks programming? If not - then for that kind of tasks one can >use C++/CLI with all its power of multiple inheritance and C++ templates >etc. ? >(C++/CLI is not free but it's available in e.g. MS Empower program package, >which is not that expensive...) >I'd think that "design-by-contract" will not help to reduce that much the >bugs without good (unit) test coverage but when good test coverage exists >what is the use of "design-by-contract"? I hear a lot of talk about contracts in the Java community, but the language offers almost zero support for it. Contracts can change the way you think about the code, and are especially useful for doing incremental development. >"built-in doc that blows away the competition" - what is that? For instance, there is the "flat" view of a class, that shows *all* the attributes and methods in one place; each is annotated with the class from which it was inherited. Contrast that with the more common doc, where you have to go on a treasure hunt to figure out all the methods etc, and what was inherited from where. >"visual round-trip engineering tools" - what are that? Again, similar stuff exists for other languages. Eiffel has a tool that lets you diagram your system and then it will build the skeleton for you. Conversely, you can create the diagram from existing code; hence "round-trip". >Forward-/reverse-engineering for UML(?) object diagrams... Not sure what UML <--> Eiffel tools exist.. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 2:57 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB <<< - It has delayed calls (aka "closures") >>> Hi Jim, What are these "delayed calls"? - I'm wondering what real projects development tasks they help to solve effectively? I'm nor arguing with you and your friend nor am I trying to start a discussion C# vs. Eiffel - I'm just wondering what are these attractive Eiffel features your friend mentioned, which I'm unaware about, how useful they are in business applications development and how can one simulate them by using e.g. C# or C++/CLI.... "Multiple inheritance" and genericity - well, C# doesn't have multiple inheritance but C# has Generics - aren't they enough for most of the real business tasks programming? If not - then for rhat kind of tasks one can use C++/CLI with all its power of multiple inheritance and C++ templates etc. ? (C++/CLI is not free but it's available in e.g. MS Empower program package, which is not that expensive...) I'd think that "design-by-contract" will not help to reduce that much the bugs without good (unit) test coverage but when good test coverage exists what is the use of "design-by-contract"? "built-in doc that blows away the competition" - what is that? "visual round-trip engineering tools" - what are that? Forward-/reverse-engineering for UML(?) object diagrams... <<< Here is an article from there that helps to show its amazing power: http://www.eiffelroom.com/article/fun_with_generics >>> Jim, C# has Generics with static casting, when one will want to do something more tricky they can well generate and compile and bind C# code and classes and objects instances on-the-fly... ...but IMO this referred article titled "Fun with Generics" doesn't give any real life applications samples where dynamic Generics casting existing in Eiffel (and lacking in C# and Java) - where this dynamic Generics casting is really needed? Does your friend have such samples, which can be looked through? ... Thanks. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 12:32 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Hi Gustav: As promised here is a reply from my friend: Hi, Jim: The ISE Eiffel website is www.eiffel.com. Note that they now have a dual licensing model for EiffelStudio (the stand-alone workbench), so one can use it free for open source software. There is Eiffel for ASP.net which is *free* - we need to check this out! There is also a .net plugin for Visual Studio (EiffelEnvision) that is not too pricey ($US 1799). Why would we be interested in this beast? - The enterprise versions include visual round-trip engineering tools - The language is very high level, so you can get a lot of mileage with very little code - It works with .net and stand-alone on several platforms - It has design-by-contract, which really helps to reduce bugs - It has simple and powerful multiple inheritance and genericity (none of the "interface" crap that passes for o-o in most other languages) - It has delayed calls (aka "closures") - It has a powerful reflection api - It is really easy to learn because it is so straightforward and logical - It has built-in doc that blows away the competition After coding in Java for a year, I am more than ready to jump ship to Eiffel myself! I would recommend also checking out Gnu SmartEiffel - see http://smarteiffel.loria.fr/index.html Another good link: www.eiffelroom.com It has articles, blogs etc on eiffel. Here is an article from there that helps to show its amazing power: http://www.eiffelroom.com/article/fun_with_generics Best regards, Yigal Hope you find this useful. If you need further details that is also easy to provide. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 10:45 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Hi Gustav: I am not qualified to give comment of the Eiffel product myself as all my knowledge is second hand but I have passed your query on to my friend and when he responds I will post his email here. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 10:18 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Hi Jim Interesting. Perhaps your friend could tell us briefly about the highlights of Eiffel? Why is it worth the money? /gustav >>> accessd at shaw.ca 25-10-2007 19:18 >>> Shamil... you are correct in all that. This friend who is strongly recommending Eiffel is planning on leaving his current job soon and as his wife now has an excellent job at the college and he has decided to go freelance. He wants to work with me on projects and is planning on buying a full licensed version.... To make a short story long I may be becoming an Eiffel guru whether I want to or not. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 11:48 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB <<< I was unaware of the product cost.... >>> Hi Jim. Yes, I have just checked the price - it looks unaffordable for small-/middle-size businesses. Yes, there is evaluation version but... I'd currently think that ASP.NET and C#/VB.NET(VS Express) + MS SQL 2005 Express/Access backend DB is the best ever available toolset for Web (and whatever else) real life business applications development... And they are free for download and use, aren't they?... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:46 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I do not usually answer my own emails but... I must qualify my last comments as I was unaware of the product cost which had me fumbling for my oxygen mask as soon as I saw it. Fortunately there are evaluation copies available. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:12 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering that its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the speed of any .Net flavour. A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not impressed with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was required to write extensive notes in the code. His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ Jim _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at users.mns.ru Fri Oct 26 03:19:42 2007 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 12:19:42 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: <3AFD7B393DB846058FE4CB0DD02A02F4@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <000101c817a8$f5f9c2f0$6401a8c0@nant> Hello Jim, Thank you for your clarifications! <<< C# 2.0 has these - they are called "anonymous delegates". >>> OK, I'm using them in C# - I didn't know they are also called "delayed calls"... <<< Let's face it - anything you can do in Eiffel can also be done effectively in just about any current language. >>> Yes. <<< For me, it comes down to one simple thing: Eiffel provides a more direct path from the concept to the implementation. >>> OK. This is what is called "Design By Contract"? ====================================================================== http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design_by_contract If the invariant AND precondition are true before using the service, then the invariant AND the postcondition will be true after the service has been completed. ====================================================================== <<< Take a look at www.eiffel.com and check out the various blurbs and then download the free version and try it out ;0) >>> Thanks. I might do that but the next year only probably - hopefully I will have some time to play with Eiffel by that time.... <<< I hear a lot of talk about contracts in the Java community, but the language offers almost zero support for it. Contracts can change the way you think about the code, and are especially useful for doing incremental development. >>> OK. For C#/VB.NET such "contracts" is what agile Test Driven Development(TDD)/Domain Driven Developpment (DDD) or its modern variation Behaviour Driven Development (http://behaviour-driven.org/ ) propose to use for incremental development with latter renamed to Feeedback Driven Development by thus highlighting the fact the (next) increment is implemented based on customers' feedback... (We do that in MS Access all the times don't we? (just a rhetoric remark :) ) <<< Again, similar stuff exists for other languages. Eiffel has a tool that lets you diagram your system and then it will build the skeleton for you. Conversely, you can create the diagram from existing code; hence "round-trip". >>> OK. The more I'm being in software development the more I feel that all kind of diagramming could be helpful but only when implemented software architecture is clean - and the latter usually mainly depends on developers' experience - diagramming/CASE tools are very often helpless here to improve the software quality... Just my experience of course... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 9:29 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Hi Shamil: Comments and replies from my friend and myself are provided inline. >What are these "delayed calls"? - I'm wondering what real projects >development tasks they help to solve effectively? C# 2.0 has these - they are called "anonymous delegates". Most modern languages now have them in one form or another. I recommend googling for "closures in " and just reading about them... (My comment: it is like an enhanced call-back.) >I'm not arguing with you and your friend nor am I trying to start a >discussion C# vs. Eiffel - I'm just wondering what are these attractive >Eiffel features your friend mentioned, which I'm unaware about, how useful >they are in business applications development and how can one simulate them >by using e.g. C# or C++/CLI.... Let's face it - anything you can do in Eiffel can also be done effectively in just about any current language. For me, it comes down to one simple thing: Eiffel provides a more direct path from the concept to the implementation. Take a look at www.eiffel.com and check out the various blurbs and then download the free version and try it out ;0) >"Multiple inheritance" and genericity - well, C# doesn't have multiple >inheritance but C# has Generics - aren't they enough for most of the real >business tasks programming? If not - then for that kind of tasks one can >use C++/CLI with all its power of multiple inheritance and C++ templates >etc. ? >(C++/CLI is not free but it's available in e.g. MS Empower program package, >which is not that expensive...) >I'd think that "design-by-contract" will not help to reduce that much the >bugs without good (unit) test coverage but when good test coverage exists >what is the use of "design-by-contract"? I hear a lot of talk about contracts in the Java community, but the language offers almost zero support for it. Contracts can change the way you think about the code, and are especially useful for doing incremental development. >"built-in doc that blows away the competition" - what is that? For instance, there is the "flat" view of a class, that shows *all* the attributes and methods in one place; each is annotated with the class from which it was inherited. Contrast that with the more common doc, where you have to go on a treasure hunt to figure out all the methods etc, and what was inherited from where. >"visual round-trip engineering tools" - what are that? Again, similar stuff exists for other languages. Eiffel has a tool that lets you diagram your system and then it will build the skeleton for you. Conversely, you can create the diagram from existing code; hence "round-trip". >Forward-/reverse-engineering for UML(?) object diagrams... Not sure what UML <--> Eiffel tools exist.. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 2:57 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB <<< - It has delayed calls (aka "closures") >>> Hi Jim, What are these "delayed calls"? - I'm wondering what real projects development tasks they help to solve effectively? I'm nor arguing with you and your friend nor am I trying to start a discussion C# vs. Eiffel - I'm just wondering what are these attractive Eiffel features your friend mentioned, which I'm unaware about, how useful they are in business applications development and how can one simulate them by using e.g. C# or C++/CLI.... "Multiple inheritance" and genericity - well, C# doesn't have multiple inheritance but C# has Generics - aren't they enough for most of the real business tasks programming? If not - then for rhat kind of tasks one can use C++/CLI with all its power of multiple inheritance and C++ templates etc. ? (C++/CLI is not free but it's available in e.g. MS Empower program package, which is not that expensive...) I'd think that "design-by-contract" will not help to reduce that much the bugs without good (unit) test coverage but when good test coverage exists what is the use of "design-by-contract"? "built-in doc that blows away the competition" - what is that? "visual round-trip engineering tools" - what are that? Forward-/reverse-engineering for UML(?) object diagrams... <<< Here is an article from there that helps to show its amazing power: http://www.eiffelroom.com/article/fun_with_generics >>> Jim, C# has Generics with static casting, when one will want to do something more tricky they can well generate and compile and bind C# code and classes and objects instances on-the-fly... ...but IMO this referred article titled "Fun with Generics" doesn't give any real life applications samples where dynamic Generics casting existing in Eiffel (and lacking in C# and Java) - where this dynamic Generics casting is really needed? Does your friend have such samples, which can be looked through? ... Thanks. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 12:32 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Hi Gustav: As promised here is a reply from my friend: Hi, Jim: The ISE Eiffel website is www.eiffel.com. Note that they now have a dual licensing model for EiffelStudio (the stand-alone workbench), so one can use it free for open source software. There is Eiffel for ASP.net which is *free* - we need to check this out! There is also a .net plugin for Visual Studio (EiffelEnvision) that is not too pricey ($US 1799). Why would we be interested in this beast? - The enterprise versions include visual round-trip engineering tools - The language is very high level, so you can get a lot of mileage with very little code - It works with .net and stand-alone on several platforms - It has design-by-contract, which really helps to reduce bugs - It has simple and powerful multiple inheritance and genericity (none of the "interface" crap that passes for o-o in most other languages) - It has delayed calls (aka "closures") - It has a powerful reflection api - It is really easy to learn because it is so straightforward and logical - It has built-in doc that blows away the competition After coding in Java for a year, I am more than ready to jump ship to Eiffel myself! I would recommend also checking out Gnu SmartEiffel - see http://smarteiffel.loria.fr/index.html Another good link: www.eiffelroom.com It has articles, blogs etc on eiffel. Here is an article from there that helps to show its amazing power: http://www.eiffelroom.com/article/fun_with_generics Best regards, Yigal Hope you find this useful. If you need further details that is also easy to provide. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 10:45 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Hi Gustav: I am not qualified to give comment of the Eiffel product myself as all my knowledge is second hand but I have passed your query on to my friend and when he responds I will post his email here. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 10:18 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Hi Jim Interesting. Perhaps your friend could tell us briefly about the highlights of Eiffel? Why is it worth the money? /gustav >>> accessd at shaw.ca 25-10-2007 19:18 >>> Shamil... you are correct in all that. This friend who is strongly recommending Eiffel is planning on leaving his current job soon and as his wife now has an excellent job at the college and he has decided to go freelance. He wants to work with me on projects and is planning on buying a full licensed version.... To make a short story long I may be becoming an Eiffel guru whether I want to or not. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 11:48 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB <<< I was unaware of the product cost.... >>> Hi Jim. Yes, I have just checked the price - it looks unaffordable for small-/middle-size businesses. Yes, there is evaluation version but... I'd currently think that ASP.NET and C#/VB.NET(VS Express) + MS SQL 2005 Express/Access backend DB is the best ever available toolset for Web (and whatever else) real life business applications development... And they are free for download and use, aren't they?... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:46 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I do not usually answer my own emails but... I must qualify my last comments as I was unaware of the product cost which had me fumbling for my oxygen mask as soon as I saw it. Fortunately there are evaluation copies available. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:12 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering that its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the speed of any .Net flavour. A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not impressed with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was required to write extensive notes in the code. His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ Jim _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue Oct 30 10:14:28 2007 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 16:14:28 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] VS Printer dialogue error Message-ID: Hi all A VB.Net app is running at a client. The developer is gone and no source code is at hand. One machine can print, the others can't. On those the (localized) error message below is shown when the print dialog should open. Any hints what could be causing this? Could it be a missing file (the parameter), but which? The machines all run WinXP Pro. /gustav ************** Exception text ************** System.ArgumentException: Parameter is invalid. ved System.Drawing.Bitmap..ctor(String filename) ved VRS_v2_0.Print.PrintLabelDBAccess..ctor() ved VRS_v2_0.MainForm.MenuItem1_Click(Object sender, EventArgs e) ved System.Windows.Forms.MenuItem.OnClick(EventArgs e) ved System.Windows.Forms.MenuItem.MenuItemData.Execute() ved System.Windows.Forms.Command.Invoke() ved System.Windows.Forms.Command.DispatchID(Int32 id) ved System.Windows.Forms.Control.WmCommand(Message& m) ved System.Windows.Forms.Control.WndProc(Message& m) ved System.Windows.Forms.ScrollableControl.WndProc(Message& m) ved System.Windows.Forms.ContainerControl.WndProc(Message& m) ved System.Windows.Forms.Form.WndProc(Message& m) ved System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.OnMessage(Message& m) ved System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.WndProc(Message& m) ved System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam) ************** Loaded assemblies ************** mscorlib Assemblyversion: 2.0.0.0 Win32-version: 2.0.50727.832 (QFE.050727-8300) CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/Microsoft.NET/Framework/v2.0.50727/mscorlib.dll ---------------------------------------- VRS_v2.0 Assemblyversion: 1.0.2218.22936 Win32-version: 1.0.2218.22936 CodeBase: file:///C:/Programmer/VRS/VRS_v2.0.exe ---------------------------------------- System.Windows.Forms Assemblyversion: 2.0.0.0 Win32-version: 2.0.50727.832 (QFE.050727-8300) CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Windows.Forms/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Windows.Forms.dll ---------------------------------------- System Assemblyversion: 2.0.0.0 Win32-version: 2.0.50727.832 (QFE.050727-8300) CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.dll ---------------------------------------- System.Drawing Assemblyversion: 2.0.0.0 Win32-version: 2.0.50727.832 (QFE.050727-8300) CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Drawing/2.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Drawing.dll ---------------------------------------- System.Windows.Forms.resources Assemblyversion: 2.0.0.0 Win32-version: 2.0.50727.42 (RTM.050727-4200) CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Windows.Forms.resources/2.0.0.0_da_b77a5c561934e089/System.Windows.Forms.resources.dll ---------------------------------------- System.Data Assemblyversion: 2.0.0.0 Win32-version: 2.0.50727.832 (QFE.050727-8300) CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_32/System.Data/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Data.dll ---------------------------------------- Microsoft.VisualBasic Assemblyversion: 8.0.0.0 Win32-version: 8.0.50727.42 (RTM.050727-4200) CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/Microsoft.VisualBasic/8.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/Microsoft.VisualBasic.dll ---------------------------------------- System.Transactions Assemblyversion: 2.0.0.0 Win32-version: 2.0.50727.832 (QFE.050727-8300) CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_32/System.Transactions/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Transactions.dll ---------------------------------------- System.EnterpriseServices Assemblyversion: 2.0.0.0 Win32-version: 2.0.50727.832 (QFE.050727-8300) CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_32/System.EnterpriseServices/2.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.EnterpriseServices.dll ---------------------------------------- System.Configuration Assemblyversion: 2.0.0.0 Win32-version: 2.0.50727.832 (QFE.050727-8300) CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Configuration/2.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Configuration.dll ---------------------------------------- System.Xml Assemblyversion: 2.0.0.0 Win32-version: 2.0.50727.832 (QFE.050727-8300) CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Xml/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Xml.dll ---------------------------------------- System.Drawing.resources Assemblyversion: 2.0.0.0 Win32-version: 2.0.50727.42 (RTM.050727-4200) CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Drawing.resources/2.0.0.0_da_b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Drawing.resources.dll ---------------------------------------- mscorlib.resources Assemblyversion: 2.0.0.0 Win32-version: 2.0.50727.832 (QFE.050727-8300) CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/Microsoft.NET/Framework/v2.0.50727/mscorlib.dll ---------------------------------------- From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Oct 30 10:23:58 2007 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 08:23:58 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] VS Printer dialogue error In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Just a SWAG, but given the "Parameter is invalid" message, I wonder if the mapping to the printer is different for those client machines. Assuming this is one or more network printers, that is. If the printers are local, no ideas. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 8:14 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] VS Printer dialogue error Hi all A VB.Net app is running at a client. The developer is gone and no source code is at hand. One machine can print, the others can't. On those the (localized) error message below is shown when the print dialog should open. Any hints what could be causing this? Could it be a missing file (the parameter), but which? The machines all run WinXP Pro. /gustav ************** Exception text ************** System.ArgumentException: Parameter is invalid. ved System.Drawing.Bitmap..ctor(String filename) ved VRS_v2_0.Print.PrintLabelDBAccess..ctor() ved VRS_v2_0.MainForm.MenuItem1_Click(Object sender, EventArgs e) ved System.Windows.Forms.MenuItem.OnClick(EventArgs e) ved System.Windows.Forms.MenuItem.MenuItemData.Execute() ved System.Windows.Forms.Command.Invoke() ved System.Windows.Forms.Command.DispatchID(Int32 id) ved System.Windows.Forms.Control.WmCommand(Message& m) ved System.Windows.Forms.Control.WndProc(Message& m) ved System.Windows.Forms.ScrollableControl.WndProc(Message& m) ved System.Windows.Forms.ContainerControl.WndProc(Message& m) ved System.Windows.Forms.Form.WndProc(Message& m) ved System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.OnMessage(Message& m) ved System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.WndProc(Message& m) ved System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam) From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue Oct 30 10:46:49 2007 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 16:46:49 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] VS Printer dialogue error Message-ID: Hi Charlotte I did check that - perhaps the app requested a specific printer to be installed? But you gave me an idea. Suddenly I recalled the fabulous old util from SysInternals: File Monitor for Windows NT/9x v4.34 Once loaded, I ran the app to pop the error and, voila, this line (wrapped here) showed up: 16:30:01 VRS_v2.0.exe:1932 IRP_MJ_CREATE C:\Programmer\VRS\prconnect.bmp FILE NOT FOUND Attributes: Any Options: Open Then I located the bmp file, copied it to the VRS folder and ran the app with no errors! Thanks Charlotte and SysInternals (now bought by the all mighty you know who). /gustav >>> cfoust at infostatsystems.com 30-10-2007 16:23 >>> Just a SWAG, but given the "Parameter is invalid" message, I wonder if the mapping to the printer is different for those client machines. Assuming this is one or more network printers, that is. If the printers are local, no ideas. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 8:14 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] VS Printer dialogue error Hi all A VB.Net app is running at a client. The developer is gone and no source code is at hand. One machine can print, the others can't. On those the (localized) error message below is shown when the print dialog should open. Any hints what could be causing this? Could it be a missing file (the parameter), but which? The machines all run WinXP Pro. /gustav From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Tue Oct 30 16:33:36 2007 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 10:33:36 +1300 Subject: [dba-VB] Web Developer wanted VB Dot Net Message-ID: <20071030213304.JVIJ18083.fep03.xtra.co.nz@Dalyn.dalyn.co.nz> Group, I have an access program that has been converted to a Web site written using Visual Studio 2003 and VB.Net. The conversion was done by another developer as a favour for the company that owns the software. We are now looking for a web developer that can do the following: 1) Continue to maintain the web version. This should be basic maintenance of the screens. The database is SQL2000 and I can maintain this. The reports are developed using DataDynamics Active Report. I can also maintain these. What I can't do is the actual web site maintenance. 2) The company has another project that they want converted from a desk top version to the web. This project would involve interaction with the developer of the desk top version - he is also not familiar with web development. The company that we would be working for is based in Chicago. However, I have been developing for them for over 10 years and I am in NZ. If you are interested in more information please email me off line with a phone number and a suitable time to call (preferably your afternoon if you are in America due to the time difference) Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd Wellington, New Zealand From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Oct 5 09:53:03 2007 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 07:53:03 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Has Data in .Net Message-ID: Here's a routine I came up with to quickly answer the question of whether any data exists in a record, outside of the key fields. We populate a field with a new record if there are none, but we want to throw it away if they don't enter any data. CurrentRow is a function that returns a datarowview of the current record in a single record form using the binding context. Private Function HasData() As Boolean ' Charlotte Foust 03-Oct-07 Dim blnData As Boolean = False Dim intKeys As Integer = 2 Try Dim flds() As Object = Me.CurrentRow.ItemArray ' skip the PK columns, which are filled by default For i As Integer = intKeys To flds.GetLength(0) - 1 If Not IsDBNull(flds(i)) Then blnData = True Exit For End If Next Catch ex As Exception UIExceptionHandler.ProcessException(ex) End Try Return blnData End Function This is in a subform module, but it could pretty easily be converted to a public function in a shared class. Charlotte Foust From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Oct 6 08:14:53 2007 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 09:14:53 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] [AccessD] Importing XML into a database In-Reply-To: <000401c807a0$d765e480$6401a8c0@nant> References: <000201c80789$8a873590$657aa8c0@M90> <000401c807a0$d765e480$6401a8c0@nant> Message-ID: <001701c8081a$e2872a20$657aa8c0@M90> Shamil, First of all, thanks for your assistance on this. I am so new to VB.Net that I would never get there on my own, but given example code I can usually adapt it to my needs. OK, here is the adaptation I am trying. The concept is that I create a class which knows how to serialize an object (class). The following function performs that process using XMLSerializer to serialize the current class onto a stream passed in. Public Function mSave(ByVal stream As Stream) As Boolean Dim serializer As New XmlSerializer(Me.GetType) Try serializer.Serialize(stream, Me) Return True Catch ex As Exception Return False End Try End Function Now, here is your code for using a memory stream as you called it. This mSave method uses a connection string and a table name parameter. You set up a memory stream and call the mSave method shown above to serialize the object into that stream. Next your create a data set which reads the xml data back out of the stream, which creates a table in the data set using the xml file element names as field names in the resulting table (very nice). Finally the "Using" block of code writes the data now in the data set out to a table in the database. I left in the two lines of code (commented out the original, then modified in a second copy) where I assume I need to substitute in my passed in table name for your hard coded table names. Public Function mSave(ByVal lcnn As String, ByVal strTblName As String) As Int16 Try ' serialize DataSet data into memory stream ' (use your custom object instance here) Dim myStream As System.IO.Stream = New IO.MemoryStream() mSave(myStream) ' read memory stream's data into dataset Dim ds As New DataSet() myStream.Position = 0 ds.ReadXml(myStream) ' write DataSet's data into database table Using cnn As New OleDbConnection(lcnn) 'Dim cmd As New OleDbCommand("select * from [LogData]") Dim cmd As New OleDbCommand("select * from [" & strTblName & "]") Dim adapter As New OleDbDataAdapter(cmd) Dim builder As New OleDbCommandBuilder(adapter) cnn.Open() cmd.CommandType = CommandType.Text cmd.Connection = cnn 'adapter.Update(ds, "clsLogData") adapter.Update(ds, strTblName ) cnn.Close() End Using Return 0 Catch ex As Exception Console.WriteLine(ex.Message) Return -1 End Try End Function So with these two methods, I build a clsSerializableData. This is inherited by any class that I want to be able to write (and read back in) its data. Assuming this works (I haven't yet tested it) I now can write any class' data to a file on disk (using a different existing mSave overload) or to table (using this new mSave overload). Is overload the right term here? Once I get this functioning I need to go back and generate the matching mLoad() method. I already have one to load the class from an xml disk file. Now I have to build one to load it from an existing table in the database. I will let you know how the testing goes. I am curious what the data types will be for this table. The data types of the class are known to the xmlSerializer but the data type does not show up in the XML file produced from the stream. Is it possible to tell the serializer to include data types in the xml file? Is this part of the XML standard? At any rate, again, thanks a million for your assistance on this Shamil. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 6:41 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing XML into a database Hello John, Yes, I think you can use MemoryStream - here is a sample code (watch line wraps): Imports System.Data Imports System.Data.OleDb Imports System.Xml.Serialization Module TestImportXmlFile Sub Main() Dim rootDir As String = "E:\Temp\XML\" Dim accDbFileName As String = "testXML.mdb" Try Dim accConnection As String = _ "Provider=Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0;Data Source=" + _ rootDir + accDbFileName ' simulate custom object instance by ' using DataSet instance, which data ' is loaded from external XMl file Dim xmlFileFullPath As String = rootDir + "clsLogData.xml" Dim textImportStream As System.IO.StreamReader = _ New IO.StreamReader(xmlFileFullPath) Dim dsObjectSimulator As New DataSet() dsObjectSimulator.ReadXml(textImportStream, _ XmlReadMode.InferSchema) ' serialize DataSet data into memory stream ' (use your custom object instance here) Dim myStream As System.IO.Stream = New IO.MemoryStream() mSave(myStream, dsObjectSimulator) ' read memory stream's data into dataset Dim ds As New DataSet() myStream.Position = 0 ds.ReadXml(myStream) ' write DataSet's data into database table Using cnn As New OleDbConnection(accConnection) Dim cmd As New OleDbCommand("select * from [LogData]") Dim adapter As New OleDbDataAdapter(cmd) Dim builder As New OleDbCommandBuilder(adapter) cnn.Open() cmd.CommandType = CommandType.Text cmd.Connection = cnn adapter.Update(ds, "clsLogData") cnn.Close() End Using Catch ex As Exception Console.WriteLine(ex.Message) End Try End Sub 'Public Function mSave(ByVal stream As IO.Stream, ByVal t As Type) As Boolean Public Function mSave(ByVal stream As IO.Stream, ByVal t As Object) As Boolean Dim serializer As New XmlSerializer(t.GetType()) Try serializer.Serialize(stream, t) Return True Catch ex As Exception Return False End Try End Function End Module -- Shamil From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Oct 8 07:07:44 2007 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 08:07:44 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - ADO - add table to SQL Server Message-ID: <002a01c809a3$d5f76a60$657aa8c0@M90> Does ADO have methods to cause a table built up the dataset to be saved to SQL Server if the table is not already in SQL Server? I am reading XML into a dataset, but the table created does not already exist in SQL Server. I need to cause the table to be written to a specified database in SQL Server. Is this possible? I have been googling around but am finding nothing like this. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com From bheid at sc.rr.com Mon Oct 8 21:16:41 2007 From: bheid at sc.rr.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 22:16:41 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - ADO - add table to SQL Server In-Reply-To: <002a01c809a3$d5f76a60$657aa8c0@M90> References: <002a01c809a3$d5f76a60$657aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: <008901c80a1a$6e744440$4b5cccc0$@rr.com> John, Yes it is easy. Look up "Create Table". Create Table ref: http://www.codeproject.com/useritems/adodotnetprogrammatically.asp Example: http://www.codeproject.com/useritems/adodotnetprogrammatically.asp Bobby -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 8:08 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - ADO - add table to SQL Server Does ADO have methods to cause a table built up the dataset to be saved to SQL Server if the table is not already in SQL Server? I am reading XML into a dataset, but the table created does not already exist in SQL Server. I need to cause the table to be written to a specified database in SQL Server. Is this possible? I have been googling around but am finding nothing like this. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Oct 9 07:15:07 2007 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 08:15:07 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects Message-ID: <002a01c80a6e$089964d0$657aa8c0@M90> I am developing modules that I need to use in various projects. This includes things like a status form with specific controls and code to display status updates from operations, and base classes for making another class serializable. Stuff like that. I need to know what the process is for making such objects accessible to other projects such that as I add capabilities and fix bugs, such enhancements are available to all the other projects that use these things. IOW, something similar to an MDA in Access. I know that it is possible, I just do not understand the mechanics of referencing the common objects. Could someone give me a detailed "step by step" of how to do it, what to click, select this menu item, click this etc. from inside of the referencing project. Or alternately a web article that discusses this stuff. TIA, John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Oct 9 07:35:12 2007 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 08:35:12 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects In-Reply-To: <002a01c80a6e$089964d0$657aa8c0@M90> References: <002a01c80a6e$089964d0$657aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: <002b01c80a70$d671b450$657aa8c0@M90> Guys, Once I discovered the correct keywords I started finding web articles on this stuff. Any words of wisdom you guys might have is still much appreciated. Thanks, John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 8:15 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects I am developing modules that I need to use in various projects. This includes things like a status form with specific controls and code to display status updates from operations, and base classes for making another class serializable. Stuff like that. I need to know what the process is for making such objects accessible to other projects such that as I add capabilities and fix bugs, such enhancements are available to all the other projects that use these things. IOW, something similar to an MDA in Access. I know that it is possible, I just do not understand the mechanics of referencing the common objects. Could someone give me a detailed "step by step" of how to do it, what to click, select this menu item, click this etc. from inside of the referencing project. Or alternately a web article that discusses this stuff. TIA, John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue Oct 9 07:38:50 2007 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2007 14:38:50 +0200 Subject: [dba-VB] Amazon Mechanical Turk SDK for .NET Message-ID: Hi all If you are experimenting with web services, Amazon is a good place to visit. Now an open-source SDK for .Net is available: http://developer.amazonwebservices.com/connect/entry.jspa?externalID=923 /gustav From mikedorism at verizon.net Tue Oct 9 09:51:25 2007 From: mikedorism at verizon.net (Doris Manning) Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2007 10:51:25 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects In-Reply-To: <002a01c80a6e$089964d0$657aa8c0@M90> References: <002a01c80a6e$089964d0$657aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: <000601c80a83$de71e9a0$2f01a8c0@Kermit> John, When you add an existing item to a project and press the OPEN button, you are actually importing the module from its existing location into the project location. If you click on the small black arrow on the far right of the OPEN button, you have a "Link file" choice. Choosing this option adds the module to your project but keeps it in its existing location. Any projects that link to it will instantly inherit the changes but will need to be rebuilt so the executable picks up the changes. Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 8:15 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects I am developing modules that I need to use in various projects. This includes things like a status form with specific controls and code to display status updates from operations, and base classes for making another class serializable. Stuff like that. I need to know what the process is for making such objects accessible to other projects such that as I add capabilities and fix bugs, such enhancements are available to all the other projects that use these things. IOW, something similar to an MDA in Access. I know that it is possible, I just do not understand the mechanics of referencing the common objects. Could someone give me a detailed "step by step" of how to do it, what to click, select this menu item, click this etc. from inside of the referencing project. Or alternately a web article that discusses this stuff. TIA, John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Oct 10 08:19:33 2007 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 09:19:33 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects In-Reply-To: <000601c80a83$de71e9a0$2f01a8c0@Kermit> References: <002a01c80a6e$089964d0$657aa8c0@M90> <000601c80a83$de71e9a0$2f01a8c0@Kermit> Message-ID: <009301c80b40$3321e150$657aa8c0@M90> Thanks Doris, I will give that a try. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doris Manning Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 10:51 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects John, When you add an existing item to a project and press the OPEN button, you are actually importing the module from its existing location into the project location. If you click on the small black arrow on the far right of the OPEN button, you have a "Link file" choice. Choosing this option adds the module to your project but keeps it in its existing location. Any projects that link to it will instantly inherit the changes but will need to be rebuilt so the executable picks up the changes. Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 8:15 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects I am developing modules that I need to use in various projects. This includes things like a status form with specific controls and code to display status updates from operations, and base classes for making another class serializable. Stuff like that. I need to know what the process is for making such objects accessible to other projects such that as I add capabilities and fix bugs, such enhancements are available to all the other projects that use these things. IOW, something similar to an MDA in Access. I know that it is possible, I just do not understand the mechanics of referencing the common objects. Could someone give me a detailed "step by step" of how to do it, what to click, select this menu item, click this etc. from inside of the referencing project. Or alternately a web article that discusses this stuff. TIA, John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ebarro at verizon.net Wed Oct 10 12:47:09 2007 From: ebarro at verizon.net (Eric Barro) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 10:47:09 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects In-Reply-To: <002b01c80a70$d671b450$657aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: <0JPP00I4NIQIMBZ0@vms044.mailsrvcs.net> John, You can create user-defined controls in .NET that you can load into your projects and even dock into your VS.NET toolbar along with the rest of the built-in controls so that all you have to do is add a reference to the DLL that defines the control and then drag and drop the control into your forms. Eric -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 5:35 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects Guys, Once I discovered the correct keywords I started finding web articles on this stuff. Any words of wisdom you guys might have is still much appreciated. Thanks, John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 8:15 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects I am developing modules that I need to use in various projects. This includes things like a status form with specific controls and code to display status updates from operations, and base classes for making another class serializable. Stuff like that. I need to know what the process is for making such objects accessible to other projects such that as I add capabilities and fix bugs, such enhancements are available to all the other projects that use these things. IOW, something similar to an MDA in Access. I know that it is possible, I just do not understand the mechanics of referencing the common objects. Could someone give me a detailed "step by step" of how to do it, what to click, select this menu item, click this etc. from inside of the referencing project. Or alternately a web article that discusses this stuff. TIA, John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.6/1061 - Release Date: 10/10/2007 8:43 AM From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Oct 11 07:38:45 2007 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 08:38:45 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects In-Reply-To: <000601c80a83$de71e9a0$2f01a8c0@Kermit> References: <002a01c80a6e$089964d0$657aa8c0@M90> <000601c80a83$de71e9a0$2f01a8c0@Kermit> Message-ID: <004701c80c03$aad54d40$657aa8c0@M90> Doris, OK, I finally figured out how to do what you are talking about. It is actually the "ADD" button which threw me for awhile, I kept going back and forth searching diligently for this "OPEN" button. Anyway, that is handled. So if I open a linked file, I am opening the actual source out in the lib and if I edit it, the changes are stored in that module in that lib? This works for me! John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doris Manning Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 10:51 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects John, When you add an existing item to a project and press the OPEN button, you are actually importing the module from its existing location into the project location. If you click on the small black arrow on the far right of the OPEN button, you have a "Link file" choice. Choosing this option adds the module to your project but keeps it in its existing location. Any projects that link to it will instantly inherit the changes but will need to be rebuilt so the executable picks up the changes. Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 8:15 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects I am developing modules that I need to use in various projects. This includes things like a status form with specific controls and code to display status updates from operations, and base classes for making another class serializable. Stuff like that. I need to know what the process is for making such objects accessible to other projects such that as I add capabilities and fix bugs, such enhancements are available to all the other projects that use these things. IOW, something similar to an MDA in Access. I know that it is possible, I just do not understand the mechanics of referencing the common objects. Could someone give me a detailed "step by step" of how to do it, what to click, select this menu item, click this etc. from inside of the referencing project. Or alternately a web article that discusses this stuff. TIA, John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Oct 11 09:57:56 2007 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 07:57:56 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects In-Reply-To: <004701c80c03$aad54d40$657aa8c0@M90> References: <002a01c80a6e$089964d0$657aa8c0@M90><000601c80a83$de71e9a0$2f01a8c0@Kermit> <004701c80c03$aad54d40$657aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: You're talking about two different things. Open is a menu item under the file menu. That's what Doris was referring to, I think. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 5:39 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects Doris, OK, I finally figured out how to do what you are talking about. It is actually the "ADD" button which threw me for awhile, I kept going back and forth searching diligently for this "OPEN" button. Anyway, that is handled. So if I open a linked file, I am opening the actual source out in the lib and if I edit it, the changes are stored in that module in that lib? This works for me! John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doris Manning Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 10:51 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects John, When you add an existing item to a project and press the OPEN button, you are actually importing the module from its existing location into the project location. If you click on the small black arrow on the far right of the OPEN button, you have a "Link file" choice. Choosing this option adds the module to your project but keeps it in its existing location. Any projects that link to it will instantly inherit the changes but will need to be rebuilt so the executable picks up the changes. Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 8:15 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects I am developing modules that I need to use in various projects. This includes things like a status form with specific controls and code to display status updates from operations, and base classes for making another class serializable. Stuff like that. I need to know what the process is for making such objects accessible to other projects such that as I add capabilities and fix bugs, such enhancements are available to all the other projects that use these things. IOW, something similar to an MDA in Access. I know that it is possible, I just do not understand the mechanics of referencing the common objects. Could someone give me a detailed "step by step" of how to do it, what to click, select this menu item, click this etc. from inside of the referencing project. Or alternately a web article that discusses this stuff. TIA, John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Oct 11 11:12:25 2007 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 12:12:25 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects In-Reply-To: References: <002a01c80a6e$089964d0$657aa8c0@M90><000601c80a83$de71e9a0$2f01a8c0@Kermit><004701c80c03$aad54d40$657aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: <005d01c80c21$83d2bf20$657aa8c0@M90> Hmmm... If you "add existing" a file Find dialog opens. At the bottom of THAT is an ADD button which has a little drop down to the right of it. If you drop that down a "LINK option". If you select "LINK" then it adds the module as a link instead of importing it directly into the project. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 10:58 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects You're talking about two different things. Open is a menu item under the file menu. That's what Doris was referring to, I think. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 5:39 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects Doris, OK, I finally figured out how to do what you are talking about. It is actually the "ADD" button which threw me for awhile, I kept going back and forth searching diligently for this "OPEN" button. Anyway, that is handled. So if I open a linked file, I am opening the actual source out in the lib and if I edit it, the changes are stored in that module in that lib? This works for me! John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doris Manning Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 10:51 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects John, When you add an existing item to a project and press the OPEN button, you are actually importing the module from its existing location into the project location. If you click on the small black arrow on the far right of the OPEN button, you have a "Link file" choice. Choosing this option adds the module to your project but keeps it in its existing location. Any projects that link to it will instantly inherit the changes but will need to be rebuilt so the executable picks up the changes. Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 8:15 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects I am developing modules that I need to use in various projects. This includes things like a status form with specific controls and code to display status updates from operations, and base classes for making another class serializable. Stuff like that. I need to know what the process is for making such objects accessible to other projects such that as I add capabilities and fix bugs, such enhancements are available to all the other projects that use these things. IOW, something similar to an MDA in Access. I know that it is possible, I just do not understand the mechanics of referencing the common objects. Could someone give me a detailed "step by step" of how to do it, what to click, select this menu item, click this etc. from inside of the referencing project. Or alternately a web article that discusses this stuff. TIA, John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Oct 11 11:15:40 2007 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 09:15:40 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects In-Reply-To: <005d01c80c21$83d2bf20$657aa8c0@M90> References: <002a01c80a6e$089964d0$657aa8c0@M90><000601c80a83$de71e9a0$2f01a8c0@Kermit><004701c80c03$aad54d40$657aa8c0@M90> <005d01c80c21$83d2bf20$657aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: But I thought you were trying to add your other project to a solution, not just a specific class. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 9:12 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects Hmmm... If you "add existing" a file Find dialog opens. At the bottom of THAT is an ADD button which has a little drop down to the right of it. If you drop that down a "LINK option". If you select "LINK" then it adds the module as a link instead of importing it directly into the project. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 10:58 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects You're talking about two different things. Open is a menu item under the file menu. That's what Doris was referring to, I think. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 5:39 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects Doris, OK, I finally figured out how to do what you are talking about. It is actually the "ADD" button which threw me for awhile, I kept going back and forth searching diligently for this "OPEN" button. Anyway, that is handled. So if I open a linked file, I am opening the actual source out in the lib and if I edit it, the changes are stored in that module in that lib? This works for me! John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doris Manning Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 10:51 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects John, When you add an existing item to a project and press the OPEN button, you are actually importing the module from its existing location into the project location. If you click on the small black arrow on the far right of the OPEN button, you have a "Link file" choice. Choosing this option adds the module to your project but keeps it in its existing location. Any projects that link to it will instantly inherit the changes but will need to be rebuilt so the executable picks up the changes. Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 8:15 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects I am developing modules that I need to use in various projects. This includes things like a status form with specific controls and code to display status updates from operations, and base classes for making another class serializable. Stuff like that. I need to know what the process is for making such objects accessible to other projects such that as I add capabilities and fix bugs, such enhancements are available to all the other projects that use these things. IOW, something similar to an MDA in Access. I know that it is possible, I just do not understand the mechanics of referencing the common objects. Could someone give me a detailed "step by step" of how to do it, what to click, select this menu item, click this etc. from inside of the referencing project. Or alternately a web article that discusses this stuff. TIA, John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Oct 11 11:48:04 2007 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 12:48:04 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects In-Reply-To: References: <002a01c80a6e$089964d0$657aa8c0@M90><000601c80a83$de71e9a0$2f01a8c0@Kermit><004701c80c03$aad54d40$657aa8c0@M90><005d01c80c21$83d2bf20$657aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: <005f01c80c26$7e58d2a0$657aa8c0@M90> Charlotte, This conversation is like trying to discuss a specific switch on the space shuttle. I don't know enough to know what I want to do. I have modules that I am developing or have found out there that I want to use in various projects. I do not want those modules embedded in each project precisely because of maintenance issues. In my terminology that is a library. ATM this is really a "library" of classes / modules that will be shared between projects. Understand that I do not truly understand "project" and "solution". A project is where poor people live and a solution is chemicals mixed in a liquid. Alternatively Project and Solution are terms used by much more advanced .Net programmers used to confuse beginners and establish respective positions in the programming hierarchy. Take it from there. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 12:16 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects But I thought you were trying to add your other project to a solution, not just a specific class. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 9:12 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects Hmmm... If you "add existing" a file Find dialog opens. At the bottom of THAT is an ADD button which has a little drop down to the right of it. If you drop that down a "LINK option". If you select "LINK" then it adds the module as a link instead of importing it directly into the project. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 10:58 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects You're talking about two different things. Open is a menu item under the file menu. That's what Doris was referring to, I think. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 5:39 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects Doris, OK, I finally figured out how to do what you are talking about. It is actually the "ADD" button which threw me for awhile, I kept going back and forth searching diligently for this "OPEN" button. Anyway, that is handled. So if I open a linked file, I am opening the actual source out in the lib and if I edit it, the changes are stored in that module in that lib? This works for me! John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doris Manning Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 10:51 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects John, When you add an existing item to a project and press the OPEN button, you are actually importing the module from its existing location into the project location. If you click on the small black arrow on the far right of the OPEN button, you have a "Link file" choice. Choosing this option adds the module to your project but keeps it in its existing location. Any projects that link to it will instantly inherit the changes but will need to be rebuilt so the executable picks up the changes. Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 8:15 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects I am developing modules that I need to use in various projects. This includes things like a status form with specific controls and code to display status updates from operations, and base classes for making another class serializable. Stuff like that. I need to know what the process is for making such objects accessible to other projects such that as I add capabilities and fix bugs, such enhancements are available to all the other projects that use these things. IOW, something similar to an MDA in Access. I know that it is possible, I just do not understand the mechanics of referencing the common objects. Could someone give me a detailed "step by step" of how to do it, what to click, select this menu item, click this etc. from inside of the referencing project. Or alternately a web article that discusses this stuff. TIA, John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Oct 11 11:56:27 2007 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 18:56:27 +0200 Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects Message-ID: Hi John et al To add to the confusing, I see no "Link" option anywhere; _if_ the Open button has an dropdown arrow juxtaposed, it offers "Open" or "Open with ..." only. /gustav >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 11-10-2007 18:48 >>> Charlotte, This conversation is like trying to discuss a specific switch on the space shuttle. I don't know enough to know what I want to do. I have modules that I am developing or have found out there that I want to use in various projects. I do not want those modules embedded in each project precisely because of maintenance issues. In my terminology that is a library. ATM this is really a "library" of classes / modules that will be shared between projects. Understand that I do not truly understand "project" and "solution". A project is where poor people live and a solution is chemicals mixed in a liquid. Alternatively Project and Solution are terms used by much more advanced .Net programmers used to confuse beginners and establish respective positions in the programming hierarchy. Take it from there. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 12:16 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects But I thought you were trying to add your other project to a solution, not just a specific class. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 9:12 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects Hmmm... If you "add existing" a file Find dialog opens. At the bottom of THAT is an ADD button which has a little drop down to the right of it. If you drop that down a "LINK option". If you select "LINK" then it adds the module as a link instead of importing it directly into the project. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 10:58 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects You're talking about two different things. Open is a menu item under the file menu. That's what Doris was referring to, I think. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 5:39 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects Doris, OK, I finally figured out how to do what you are talking about. It is actually the "ADD" button which threw me for awhile, I kept going back and forth searching diligently for this "OPEN" button. Anyway, that is handled. So if I open a linked file, I am opening the actual source out in the lib and if I edit it, the changes are stored in that module in that lib? This works for me! John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doris Manning Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 10:51 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects John, When you add an existing item to a project and press the OPEN button, you are actually importing the module from its existing location into the project location. If you click on the small black arrow on the far right of the OPEN button, you have a "Link file" choice. Choosing this option adds the module to your project but keeps it in its existing location. Any projects that link to it will instantly inherit the changes but will need to be rebuilt so the executable picks up the changes. Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 8:15 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects I am developing modules that I need to use in various projects. This includes things like a status form with specific controls and code to display status updates from operations, and base classes for making another class serializable. Stuff like that. I need to know what the process is for making such objects accessible to other projects such that as I add capabilities and fix bugs, such enhancements are available to all the other projects that use these things. IOW, something similar to an MDA in Access. I know that it is possible, I just do not understand the mechanics of referencing the common objects. Could someone give me a detailed "step by step" of how to do it, what to click, select this menu item, click this etc. from inside of the referencing project. Or alternately a web article that discusses this stuff. TIA, John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Oct 11 11:56:50 2007 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 09:56:50 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects In-Reply-To: <005f01c80c26$7e58d2a0$657aa8c0@M90> References: <002a01c80a6e$089964d0$657aa8c0@M90><000601c80a83$de71e9a0$2f01a8c0@Kermit><004701c80c03$aad54d40$657aa8c0@M90><005d01c80c21$83d2bf20$657aa8c0@M90> <005f01c80c26$7e58d2a0$657aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: LOL Think of a solution as an application superstructure that contains various projects. It can contain as many projects as you need, and those projects don't have to originate in the solution. One of the projects in the solution is the startup project, the rest are the bits that make it work. We insist that a project have a single focus, i.e., a configuration project, a data project, a UI project, a custom controls project, a reports project, etc., etc. All of those are variously imported into the individual classes in the solution as required. All our winforms and subforms (user controls) live in the UI project, while all our data entities, typed datasets, and defined interfaces live in the data project. Our custom controls project is shared among our applications. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 9:48 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects Charlotte, This conversation is like trying to discuss a specific switch on the space shuttle. I don't know enough to know what I want to do. I have modules that I am developing or have found out there that I want to use in various projects. I do not want those modules embedded in each project precisely because of maintenance issues. In my terminology that is a library. ATM this is really a "library" of classes / modules that will be shared between projects. Understand that I do not truly understand "project" and "solution". A project is where poor people live and a solution is chemicals mixed in a liquid. Alternatively Project and Solution are terms used by much more advanced .Net programmers used to confuse beginners and establish respective positions in the programming hierarchy. Take it from there. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 12:16 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects But I thought you were trying to add your other project to a solution, not just a specific class. Charlotte Foust From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Oct 11 12:11:35 2007 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 10:11:35 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: When you add Existing Item, the add dialog has and Add and a Cancel button. once you select a file, the Add button shows a dropdown arrow that allows you to add the class as a link. But that is a way to add individual classes. If you wanted a whole library of objects, it would make more sense to add a project. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 9:56 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects Hi John et al To add to the confusing, I see no "Link" option anywhere; _if_ the Open button has an dropdown arrow juxtaposed, it offers "Open" or "Open with ..." only. /gustav >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 11-10-2007 18:48 >>> Charlotte, This conversation is like trying to discuss a specific switch on the space shuttle. I don't know enough to know what I want to do. I have modules that I am developing or have found out there that I want to use in various projects. I do not want those modules embedded in each project precisely because of maintenance issues. In my terminology that is a library. ATM this is really a "library" of classes / modules that will be shared between projects. Understand that I do not truly understand "project" and "solution". A project is where poor people live and a solution is chemicals mixed in a liquid. Alternatively Project and Solution are terms used by much more advanced .Net programmers used to confuse beginners and establish respective positions in the programming hierarchy. Take it from there. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 12:16 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects But I thought you were trying to add your other project to a solution, not just a specific class. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 9:12 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects Hmmm... If you "add existing" a file Find dialog opens. At the bottom of THAT is an ADD button which has a little drop down to the right of it. If you drop that down a "LINK option". If you select "LINK" then it adds the module as a link instead of importing it directly into the project. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 10:58 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects You're talking about two different things. Open is a menu item under the file menu. That's what Doris was referring to, I think. Charlotte Foust From ssharkins at gmail.com Fri Oct 12 09:24:31 2007 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 10:24:31 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Hello Message-ID: <00e201c80cdb$9fc66690$4b3a8343@SusanOne> Well, I'm here. My first question regards VB Express and VB.Net -- are they the same thing? I already have VB Express. IN the book I wrote on SQL Server Express, I included a chapter on using VB Express with SS Express. So, I'm not a total novice, but I don't actually use it for anything -- just to write that chapter. From the AccessD conversation, I gather I can use VB Express with Access too? Susan H. From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Oct 19 05:16:44 2007 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 12:16:44 +0200 Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects Message-ID: Hi Charlotte (when you return) et al I was derailed; I looked at the main menu File, Add. Where the link option exists, however, is in the Solution Explorer panel - if you right-click at the top level item. In the popup menu choose Add, Existing Item ... Now the Add Existing Item dialogue opens and, when a file is selected, the Add button features a dropdown arrow. Clicking this reveals the options Add Add As Link /gustav >>> cfoust at infostatsystems.com 11-10-2007 19:11 >>> When you add Existing Item, the add dialog has and Add and a Cancel button. once you select a file, the Add button shows a dropdown arrow that allows you to add the class as a link. But that is a way to add individual classes. If you wanted a whole library of objects, it would make more sense to add a project. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 9:56 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects Hi John et al To add to the confusing, I see no "Link" option anywhere; _if_ the Open button has an dropdown arrow juxtaposed, it offers "Open" or "Open with ..." only. /gustav >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 11-10-2007 18:48 >>> Charlotte, This conversation is like trying to discuss a specific switch on the space shuttle. I don't know enough to know what I want to do. I have modules that I am developing or have found out there that I want to use in various projects. I do not want those modules embedded in each project precisely because of maintenance issues. In my terminology that is a library. ATM this is really a "library" of classes / modules that will be shared between projects. Understand that I do not truly understand "project" and "solution". A project is where poor people live and a solution is chemicals mixed in a liquid. Alternatively Project and Solution are terms used by much more advanced .Net programmers used to confuse beginners and establish respective positions in the programming hierarchy. Take it from there. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 12:16 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects But I thought you were trying to add your other project to a solution, not just a specific class. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 9:12 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects Hmmm... If you "add existing" a file Find dialog opens. At the bottom of THAT is an ADD button which has a little drop down to the right of it. If you drop that down a "LINK option". If you select "LINK" then it adds the module as a link instead of importing it directly into the project. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 10:58 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects You're talking about two different things. Open is a menu item under the file menu. That's what Doris was referring to, I think. Charlotte Foust From carbonnb at gmail.com Sat Oct 20 10:27:11 2007 From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 11:27:11 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Message-ID: Hi there folks, Based on some comments over on AccessD we are looking at renaming the DBA-VB list. We don't want to exclude any programming language be it VB6, VB.Net, C#, J# or the next greating thing MS brings out. So we were considering renaming it to something like DBA-Coding or DBA-Programming Does anyone have any other suggestions or comments about the proposal? John Bartow - President, Database Advisors, Inc. Bryan Carbonnell - Listmaster, Database Advisors, Inc. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Oct 20 13:59:21 2007 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 11:59:21 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Bryan: With the exception of VB6 there is no coding that will be of .Net origin so why not just move on and just call the list DBA.Net. When the decision is finally made send me the confirmation and so it will be appropriately posted on our web site. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2007 8:27 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Hi there folks, Based on some comments over on AccessD we are looking at renaming the DBA-VB list. We don't want to exclude any programming language be it VB6, VB.Net, C#, J# or the next greating thing MS brings out. So we were considering renaming it to something like DBA-Coding or DBA-Programming Does anyone have any other suggestions or comments about the proposal? John Bartow - President, Database Advisors, Inc. Bryan Carbonnell - Listmaster, Database Advisors, Inc. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Oct 20 15:35:53 2007 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 13:35:53 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Meant to say: With the exception of VB6 there is no coding that will not be of .Net origin... Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2007 11:59 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Hi Bryan: With the exception of VB6 there is no coding that will be of .Net origin so why not just move on and just call the list DBA.Net. When the decision is finally made send me the confirmation and so it will be appropriately posted on our web site. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2007 8:27 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Hi there folks, Based on some comments over on AccessD we are looking at renaming the DBA-VB list. We don't want to exclude any programming language be it VB6, VB.Net, C#, J# or the next greating thing MS brings out. So we were considering renaming it to something like DBA-Coding or DBA-Programming Does anyone have any other suggestions or comments about the proposal? John Bartow - President, Database Advisors, Inc. Bryan Carbonnell - Listmaster, Database Advisors, Inc. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Sat Oct 20 17:23:16 2007 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 17:23:16 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'd say it's a good idea. Already saw Jim's post, and would have to disagree. There is a lot of 'coding' that doesn't necessarily fall under AccessD. VBScript, ASP, etc. I know several other languages, though, ironically, I only dabble in .Net, still prefer VB 6. I am not going to be on a dozen lists, but I wouldn't mind changing this list to accommodate all programming languages. Drew -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2007 10:27 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Hi there folks, Based on some comments over on AccessD we are looking at renaming the DBA-VB list. We don't want to exclude any programming language be it VB6, VB.Net, C#, J# or the next greating thing MS brings out. So we were considering renaming it to something like DBA-Coding or DBA-Programming Does anyone have any other suggestions or comments about the proposal? John Bartow - President, Database Advisors, Inc. Bryan Carbonnell - Listmaster, Database Advisors, Inc. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI BusinessSensitve material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From robert at webedb.com Mon Oct 22 15:31:10 2007 From: robert at webedb.com (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 15:31:10 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200710222034.l9MKYsrO000925@databaseadvisors.com> DBS-DotNetLanguages At 12:00 PM 10/20/2007, you wrote: >Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 11:27:11 -0400 >From: "Bryan Carbonnell" >Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB >To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com >Message-ID: > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > >Hi there folks, > >Based on some comments over on AccessD we are looking at renaming the >DBA-VB list. We don't want to exclude any programming language be it >VB6, VB.Net, C#, J# or the next greating thing MS brings out. > >So we were considering renaming it to something like DBA-Coding or >DBA-Programming > >Does anyone have any other suggestions or comments about the proposal? > >John Bartow - President, Database Advisors, Inc. >Bryan Carbonnell - Listmaster, Database Advisors, Inc. > >-- >Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com >Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well >preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, >shouting "What a great ride!" > > >------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >dba-VB mailing list >dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > >End of dba-VB Digest, Vol 48, Issue 10 >************************************** From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Mon Oct 22 17:20:48 2007 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Michael R Mattys) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 18:20:48 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB References: <200710222034.l9MKYsrO000925@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <00dd01c814f9$cd3146b0$0202a8c0@Laptop> I'm not interested in .Net anything, right now. I guess you're saying that both PHP and Ruby on Rails are irrelevant when it comes to Access? Michael R. Mattys MapPoint & Access Dev www.mattysconsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Oct 22 17:29:30 2007 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 18:29:30 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: <00dd01c814f9$cd3146b0$0202a8c0@Laptop> References: <200710222034.l9MKYsrO000925@databaseadvisors.com> <00dd01c814f9$cd3146b0$0202a8c0@Laptop> Message-ID: <001701c814fb$043777f0$647aa8c0@M90> This really isn't about the Access list. That will remain named as it is I presume. The discussion is about renaming the VB list to embrace a wider audience. It is my opinion that we should not cast too wide a net or we will end up attracting people for every platform under the sun and they will soon leave because there is no support available for their respective platform. I thought we should simply widen the target to include the .Net platform, specifically VB.Net. The list is currently VB oriented, and widening the scope to include VB.Net (which is a large percentage of the current traffic) would be entirely appropriate. Just my opinion. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael R Mattys Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 6:21 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I'm not interested in .Net anything, right now. I guess you're saying that both PHP and Ruby on Rails are irrelevant when it comes to Access? Michael R. Mattys MapPoint & Access Dev www.mattysconsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Oct 22 17:46:19 2007 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 15:46:19 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: <00dd01c814f9$cd3146b0$0202a8c0@Laptop> Message-ID: Those two development environments would hardly be irrelevant but there are dozens of great development environments... so where do you draw the line? For the most part we are a MS shop but with a keen eye on superior products. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael R Mattys Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 3:21 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I'm not interested in .Net anything, right now. I guess you're saying that both PHP and Ruby on Rails are irrelevant when it comes to Access? Michael R. Mattys MapPoint & Access Dev www.mattysconsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Mon Oct 22 18:49:19 2007 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Michael R Mattys) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 19:49:19 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB References: <200710222034.l9MKYsrO000925@databaseadvisors.com> <00dd01c814f9$cd3146b0$0202a8c0@Laptop> <001701c814fb$043777f0$647aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: <012401c81506$2affe6a0$0202a8c0@Laptop> We're going to need a stoplight for all this traffic. DBA.Code.Misc Michael R. Mattys MapPoint & Access Dev www.mattysconsulting.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "jwcolby" To: Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 6:29 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > This really isn't about the Access list. That will remain named as it is > I > presume. The discussion is about renaming the VB list to embrace a wider > audience. > > It is my opinion that we should not cast too wide a net or we will end up > attracting people for every platform under the sun and they will soon > leave > because there is no support available for their respective platform. > > I thought we should simply widen the target to include the .Net platform, > specifically VB.Net. The list is currently VB oriented, and widening the > scope to include VB.Net (which is a large percentage of the current > traffic) > would be entirely appropriate. > > Just my opinion. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael R Mattys > Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 6:21 PM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > I'm not interested in .Net anything, right now. > > I guess you're saying that both PHP and Ruby on Rails are irrelevant when > it > comes to Access? > > Michael R. Mattys > MapPoint & Access Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Oct 22 19:33:31 2007 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 20:33:31 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: References: <00dd01c814f9$cd3146b0$0202a8c0@Laptop> Message-ID: <001e01c8150c$5bb5efa0$647aa8c0@M90> LOL. If we had a keen eye on superior products we wouldn't be an MS shop. 8-O John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 6:46 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Those two development environments would hardly be irrelevant but there are dozens of great development environments... so where do you draw the line? For the most part we are a MS shop but with a keen eye on superior products. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael R Mattys Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 3:21 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I'm not interested in .Net anything, right now. I guess you're saying that both PHP and Ruby on Rails are irrelevant when it comes to Access? Michael R. Mattys MapPoint & Access Dev www.mattysconsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Oct 22 19:34:55 2007 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 20:34:55 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: <012401c81506$2affe6a0$0202a8c0@Laptop> References: <200710222034.l9MKYsrO000925@databaseadvisors.com><00dd01c814f9$cd3146b0$0202a8c0@Laptop><001701c814fb$043777f0$647aa8c0@M90> <012401c81506$2affe6a0$0202a8c0@Laptop> Message-ID: <001f01c8150c$8c345590$647aa8c0@M90> LOL. Come one, come all. Now one here uses that but now that you are here we have at least one. ;-) John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael R Mattys Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 7:49 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB We're going to need a stoplight for all this traffic. DBA.Code.Misc Michael R. Mattys MapPoint & Access Dev www.mattysconsulting.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "jwcolby" To: Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 6:29 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > This really isn't about the Access list. That will remain named as it is > I > presume. The discussion is about renaming the VB list to embrace a wider > audience. > > It is my opinion that we should not cast too wide a net or we will end up > attracting people for every platform under the sun and they will soon > leave > because there is no support available for their respective platform. > > I thought we should simply widen the target to include the .Net platform, > specifically VB.Net. The list is currently VB oriented, and widening the > scope to include VB.Net (which is a large percentage of the current > traffic) > would be entirely appropriate. > > Just my opinion. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael R Mattys > Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 6:21 PM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > I'm not interested in .Net anything, right now. > > I guess you're saying that both PHP and Ruby on Rails are irrelevant when > it > comes to Access? > > Michael R. Mattys > MapPoint & Access Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Oct 22 21:12:45 2007 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 19:12:45 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: <001e01c8150c$5bb5efa0$647aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: Officially, I have deniability... I did not say that. :-) Anyway .Net products run on Linux and Macs. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 5:34 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB LOL. If we had a keen eye on superior products we wouldn't be an MS shop. 8-O John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 6:46 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Those two development environments would hardly be irrelevant but there are dozens of great development environments... so where do you draw the line? For the most part we are a MS shop but with a keen eye on superior products. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael R Mattys Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 3:21 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I'm not interested in .Net anything, right now. I guess you're saying that both PHP and Ruby on Rails are irrelevant when it comes to Access? Michael R. Mattys MapPoint & Access Dev www.mattysconsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Oct 22 21:16:02 2007 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 19:16:02 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: <001f01c8150c$8c345590$647aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: <7A56D266028C4A9BBF4F46ED1507D274@creativesystemdesigns.com> There was a computer club that was started in around 1982 in Victoria that called itself 'Big Blue'. When a host of other copies started hitting the market the name was changed to 'Big Blue and cousins'. Maybe we could call the new site 'DBA.Net and cousins'? Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 5:35 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB LOL. Come one, come all. Now one here uses that but now that you are here we have at least one. ;-) John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael R Mattys Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 7:49 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB We're going to need a stoplight for all this traffic. DBA.Code.Misc Michael R. Mattys MapPoint & Access Dev www.mattysconsulting.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "jwcolby" To: Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 6:29 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > This really isn't about the Access list. That will remain named as it is > I > presume. The discussion is about renaming the VB list to embrace a wider > audience. > > It is my opinion that we should not cast too wide a net or we will end up > attracting people for every platform under the sun and they will soon > leave > because there is no support available for their respective platform. > > I thought we should simply widen the target to include the .Net platform, > specifically VB.Net. The list is currently VB oriented, and widening the > scope to include VB.Net (which is a large percentage of the current > traffic) > would be entirely appropriate. > > Just my opinion. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael R Mattys > Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 6:21 PM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > I'm not interested in .Net anything, right now. > > I guess you're saying that both PHP and Ruby on Rails are irrelevant when > it > comes to Access? > > Michael R. Mattys > MapPoint & Access Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From pharold at proftesting.com Tue Oct 23 00:14:31 2007 From: pharold at proftesting.com (Perry L Harold) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 01:14:31 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB References: Message-ID: DBA-Programming sounds reasonable and broad enough. Perry Harold Professional Testing Inc 407-264-2993 pharold at proftesting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2007 11:27 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Hi there folks, Based on some comments over on AccessD we are looking at renaming the DBA-VB list. We don't want to exclude any programming language be it VB6, VB.Net, C#, J# or the next greating thing MS brings out. So we were considering renaming it to something like DBA-Coding or DBA-Programming Does anyone have any other suggestions or comments about the proposal? John Bartow - President, Database Advisors, Inc. Bryan Carbonnell - Listmaster, Database Advisors, Inc. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue Oct 23 02:27:29 2007 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 09:27:29 +0200 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Message-ID: Hi John et al That covers pretty much my opinion. However, the new name isn't important too me, I just found VB(6) too restricted. I don't think anyone would be offended by a post on Java, Python or any other language, even VBScript - in fact I would welcome it - it's just that the audience with a relevant knowledge is quite limited so response would probably be low. But could we develop an audience for, say, Ruby On Rails it would be great. Even though we here at Cactus Data have decided for Visual Studio and C#, I would at least browse such postings because of the relevance to databases and because you can always learn something. In fact, one of the strengths of our lists is the members' broad background often supported by solid experience from real life, and we should encourage any step to maintain this. /gustav >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 23-10-2007 00:29 >>> This really isn't about the Access list. That will remain named as it is I presume. The discussion is about renaming the VB list to embrace a wider audience. It is my opinion that we should not cast too wide a net or we will end up attracting people for every platform under the sun and they will soon leave because there is no support available for their respective platform. I thought we should simply widen the target to include the .Net platform, specifically VB.Net. The list is currently VB oriented, and widening the scope to include VB.Net (which is a large percentage of the current traffic) would be entirely appropriate. Just my opinion. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael R Mattys Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 6:21 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I'm not interested in .Net anything, right now. I guess you're saying that both PHP and Ruby on Rails are irrelevant when it comes to Access? Michael R. Mattys MapPoint & Access Dev www.mattysconsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Oct 23 07:21:07 2007 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 08:21:07 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <003601c8156f$3108e9c0$647aa8c0@M90> Gustav, One of our list members mentioned that he didn't hang out on our vb list because it never gained critical mass and therefore the membership was low and the responses to questions low or nonexistent. I think this is a real concern. AccessD is specialized in Access, everyone there knows and "loves" Access and come there to get assistance or share their knowledge about Access. Now we create a list about "programming". That is fine except now someone come to the list and post a question about Ruby On Rails and get no answers because while everyone there is interested in following such threads, no one actually uses it. The thread never starts, and the poster goes away and finds a Ruby On Rails list so that he can get his questions answered. Make an assumption that somehow we achieve critical mass and we have 40 questions a day posted in each of Ruby, Java, Python, VBScript, VB6, VB.Net, C#, J#, F#, c#, D#, E# Z# and A flat Minor. I am on the list to learn about VB (the original focus) or in my case VB.Net, and I am getting flooded with emails about subjects which (not being a musician) I am not interested in nor do I have the expertise to appreciate. Neither scenario works. We keep AccessD focused on Access for a reason, so that it can be home to people interested in the subject. Having said that, we can certainly host a list on "Programming", in which discussions about programming concepts and even specific problems in whatever language are encouraged. But I for one would not vote to make the VB list that list. I use VB.Net a lot these days and I would like a list focused on the dot net technology, while holding on to our VB brethren who have not yet moved up. I vote to make the VB List a VB list which adds VB.Net and even other VB variations if desired, but still focused on VB. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 3:27 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Hi John et al That covers pretty much my opinion. However, the new name isn't important too me, I just found VB(6) too restricted. I don't think anyone would be offended by a post on Java, Python or any other language, even VBScript - in fact I would welcome it - it's just that the audience with a relevant knowledge is quite limited so response would probably be low. But could we develop an audience for, say, Ruby On Rails it would be great. Even though we here at Cactus Data have decided for Visual Studio and C#, I would at least browse such postings because of the relevance to databases and because you can always learn something. In fact, one of the strengths of our lists is the members' broad background often supported by solid experience from real life, and we should encourage any step to maintain this. /gustav >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 23-10-2007 00:29 >>> This really isn't about the Access list. That will remain named as it is I presume. The discussion is about renaming the VB list to embrace a wider audience. It is my opinion that we should not cast too wide a net or we will end up attracting people for every platform under the sun and they will soon leave because there is no support available for their respective platform. I thought we should simply widen the target to include the .Net platform, specifically VB.Net. The list is currently VB oriented, and widening the scope to include VB.Net (which is a large percentage of the current traffic) would be entirely appropriate. Just my opinion. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael R Mattys Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 6:21 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I'm not interested in .Net anything, right now. I guess you're saying that both PHP and Ruby on Rails are irrelevant when it comes to Access? Michael R. Mattys MapPoint & Access Dev www.mattysconsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Tue Oct 23 08:12:02 2007 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Michael R Mattys) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 09:12:02 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB References: <003601c8156f$3108e9c0$647aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: <005201c81576$4fc369b0$0202a8c0@Laptop> Well said, John. I concede to VS8. Yet, the boulder doesn't seem to be moving in any direction. Michael R. Mattys MapPoint & Access Dev www.mattysconsulting.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "jwcolby" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 8:21 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > Gustav, > > One of our list members mentioned that he didn't hang out on our vb list > because it never gained critical mass and therefore the membership was low > and the responses to questions low or nonexistent. I think this is a real > concern. AccessD is specialized in Access, everyone there knows and > "loves" > Access and come there to get assistance or share their knowledge about > Access. > > Now we create a list about "programming". That is fine except now someone > come to the list and post a question about Ruby On Rails and get no > answers > because while everyone there is interested in following such threads, no > one > actually uses it. The thread never starts, and the poster goes away and > finds a Ruby On Rails list so that he can get his questions answered. > > Make an assumption that somehow we achieve critical mass and we have 40 > questions a day posted in each of Ruby, Java, Python, VBScript, VB6, > VB.Net, > C#, J#, F#, c#, D#, E# Z# and A flat Minor. I am on the list to learn > about > VB (the original focus) or in my case VB.Net, and I am getting flooded > with > emails about subjects which (not being a musician) I am not interested in > nor do I have the expertise to appreciate. > > Neither scenario works. We keep AccessD focused on Access for a reason, > so > that it can be home to people interested in the subject. > > Having said that, we can certainly host a list on "Programming", in which > discussions about programming concepts and even specific problems in > whatever language are encouraged. But I for one would not vote to make > the > VB list that list. > > I use VB.Net a lot these days and I would like a list focused on the dot > net > technology, while holding on to our VB brethren who have not yet moved up. > I vote to make the VB List a VB list which adds VB.Net and even other VB > variations if desired, but still focused on VB. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > www.ColbyConsulting.com snip > In fact, one of the strengths of our lists is the members' broad > background > often supported by solid experience from real life, and we should > encourage > any step to maintain this. > > /gustav snip > I thought we should simply widen the target to include the .Net platform, > specifically VB.Net. The list is currently VB oriented, and widening the > scope to include VB.Net (which is a large percentage of the current > traffic) > would be entirely appropriate. > > Just my opinion. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > www.ColbyConsulting.com snip > I'm not interested in .Net anything, right now. > Michael R. Mattys > MapPoint & Access Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Tue Oct 23 10:39:08 2007 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 11:39:08 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB References: Message-ID: <004801c8158a$dac17200$6b706c4c@JISREGISTRATION.local> ...what many here apparently don't yet understand Gustav, is just how easy and rewarding the transition from vb.net (even vba) to c# really is in the dot.net environment ...I was a long time vba developer who got pushed into asp.net work by a client and automatically defaulted to using vb.net ...but so many of the samples and tutorials were posted in both vb.net and C# that it became quickly evident that it was mostly just syntax differences ...and minor ones at that ...and more and more of the samples/tutorials I was really interested in were available only in c# because vb.net simply could not do it as well if at all. ...my vote goes to dba.net on the simple basis that most questions posed in either .net language can be readily addressed by any one experienced in either ...besides which the free translators available have become quite adept at going to from either language. ...imnsho, dba.programming will suffer the same fate as dba.vb has but for exactly the opposite reason. ...my 2 cents, worth exactly what it cost you. William ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 3:27 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > Hi John et al > > That covers pretty much my opinion. > However, the new name isn't important too me, I just found VB(6) too > restricted. I don't think anyone would be offended by a post on Java, > Python or any other language, even VBScript - in fact I would welcome it - > it's just that the audience with a relevant knowledge is quite limited so > response would probably be low. But could we develop an audience for, say, > Ruby On Rails it would be great. Even though we here at Cactus Data have > decided for Visual Studio and C#, I would at least browse such postings > because of the relevance to databases and because you can always learn > something. > > In fact, one of the strengths of our lists is the members' broad > background often supported by solid experience from real life, and we > should encourage any step to maintain this. > > /gustav > >>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 23-10-2007 00:29 >>> > This really isn't about the Access list. That will remain named as it is > I > presume. The discussion is about renaming the VB list to embrace a wider > audience. > > It is my opinion that we should not cast too wide a net or we will end up > attracting people for every platform under the sun and they will soon > leave > because there is no support available for their respective platform. > > I thought we should simply widen the target to include the .Net platform, > specifically VB.Net. The list is currently VB oriented, and widening the > scope to include VB.Net (which is a large percentage of the current > traffic) > would be entirely appropriate. > > Just my opinion. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael R Mattys > Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 6:21 PM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > I'm not interested in .Net anything, right now. > > I guess you're saying that both PHP and Ruby on Rails are irrelevant when > it > comes to Access? > > Michael R. Mattys > MapPoint & Access Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Oct 23 11:47:26 2007 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 12:47:26 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] C# vs VB - was RE: Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: <004801c8158a$dac17200$6b706c4c@JISREGISTRATION.local> References: <004801c8158a$dac17200$6b706c4c@JISREGISTRATION.local> Message-ID: <004701c81594$76b6be50$647aa8c0@M90> William, I programmed for a couple of years completely and only in C for a uController project back in 96/97. I went there from Access 2.0 and returned to Access 97 (VBA). I know that the syntax for C# is quite close to VB.Net in a lot of ways and I also know that there are gotchas that have to be understood, remembered and handled. I think that going from VB.Net to C#.Net is a LOT easier than going from VBA to C#.Net for the simple reason that if you are fluent in VB.Net then you are no longer banging your head over the IDE, the plethora of .Net classes, the intricacies of inheritance, partial classes and so forth and so on. That is all handled and understood and NOW you can concentrate on syntax differences. I have been a programmer full time since 1996, with long stints in variances of basic as well as Pascal and "short" stints in C and I just found it irritating moving directly from VBA to C#. I made an educated decision to postpone the move to C# until I was up to speed on VB.Net. I have done translations of code segments between C# back to VB.Net and I can tell you that sometimes it is easy, sometimes it is not. There are things possible in C# that simply are not possible in VB.Net and, believe it or not, Vice Versa. Some of those differences are quite deep conceptually and can throw a major wrench in any conversion. I have not tried it lately, but I know that My. syntax (My.Computer) exists in VB but not in C#, at least in the past. Thus taking any code with My. constructs and porting them to C# requires quite in-depth knowledge of what the equivalent is. The My. construct is just a wrapper, but a wrapper of WHAT. That is just one quick example. So yes, in GENERAL the programming constructs all pretty much match one for one, { = Begin, } = End, For exists in both etc. Once you get past the basics however there are things which are not so quickly and easily translated. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 11:39 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB ...what many here apparently don't yet understand Gustav, is just how easy and rewarding the transition from vb.net (even vba) to c# really is in the dot.net environment ...I was a long time vba developer who got pushed into asp.net work by a client and automatically defaulted to using vb.net ...but so many of the samples and tutorials were posted in both vb.net and C# that it became quickly evident that it was mostly just syntax differences ...and minor ones at that ...and more and more of the samples/tutorials I was really interested in were available only in c# because vb.net simply could not do it as well if at all. ...my vote goes to dba.net on the simple basis that most questions posed in either .net language can be readily addressed by any one experienced in either ...besides which the free translators available have become quite adept at going to from either language. ...imnsho, dba.programming will suffer the same fate as dba.vb has but for exactly the opposite reason. ...my 2 cents, worth exactly what it cost you. William From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Oct 23 12:02:44 2007 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 10:02:44 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] C# vs VB - was RE: Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: <004701c81594$76b6be50$647aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: As far as I understand there are 2 possible reasons for going to C# if you are competent in VB.Net. 1. The one key point for going to C# as apposed to Vb.Net would be for performance. That is not the case as they both perform equally so what is the advantage. 2. The other point is that once an application is started in C# it has to be completed in C#. This is also not the case as .Net derivatives can be mixed and compiled. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 9:47 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] C# vs VB - was RE: Renaming DBA-VB William, I programmed for a couple of years completely and only in C for a uController project back in 96/97. I went there from Access 2.0 and returned to Access 97 (VBA). I know that the syntax for C# is quite close to VB.Net in a lot of ways and I also know that there are gotchas that have to be understood, remembered and handled. I think that going from VB.Net to C#.Net is a LOT easier than going from VBA to C#.Net for the simple reason that if you are fluent in VB.Net then you are no longer banging your head over the IDE, the plethora of .Net classes, the intricacies of inheritance, partial classes and so forth and so on. That is all handled and understood and NOW you can concentrate on syntax differences. I have been a programmer full time since 1996, with long stints in variances of basic as well as Pascal and "short" stints in C and I just found it irritating moving directly from VBA to C#. I made an educated decision to postpone the move to C# until I was up to speed on VB.Net. I have done translations of code segments between C# back to VB.Net and I can tell you that sometimes it is easy, sometimes it is not. There are things possible in C# that simply are not possible in VB.Net and, believe it or not, Vice Versa. Some of those differences are quite deep conceptually and can throw a major wrench in any conversion. I have not tried it lately, but I know that My. syntax (My.Computer) exists in VB but not in C#, at least in the past. Thus taking any code with My. constructs and porting them to C# requires quite in-depth knowledge of what the equivalent is. The My. construct is just a wrapper, but a wrapper of WHAT. That is just one quick example. So yes, in GENERAL the programming constructs all pretty much match one for one, { = Begin, } = End, For exists in both etc. Once you get past the basics however there are things which are not so quickly and easily translated. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 11:39 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB ...what many here apparently don't yet understand Gustav, is just how easy and rewarding the transition from vb.net (even vba) to c# really is in the dot.net environment ...I was a long time vba developer who got pushed into asp.net work by a client and automatically defaulted to using vb.net ...but so many of the samples and tutorials were posted in both vb.net and C# that it became quickly evident that it was mostly just syntax differences ...and minor ones at that ...and more and more of the samples/tutorials I was really interested in were available only in c# because vb.net simply could not do it as well if at all. ...my vote goes to dba.net on the simple basis that most questions posed in either .net language can be readily addressed by any one experienced in either ...besides which the free translators available have become quite adept at going to from either language. ...imnsho, dba.programming will suffer the same fate as dba.vb has but for exactly the opposite reason. ...my 2 cents, worth exactly what it cost you. William _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Oct 23 12:09:30 2007 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 13:09:30 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] C# vs VB - was RE: Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: References: <004701c81594$76b6be50$647aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: <004d01c81597$7a7dd110$647aa8c0@M90> Jim, you forgot: Employers pay more for C# programmers Examples are in C#. Both of those are true and valid reasons. The professionals state that in general both VB and C# are capable. Both are a thin veneer over the .Net framework. And each do have a VERY small handful of things that they can do that the other can't. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 1:03 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] C# vs VB - was RE: Renaming DBA-VB As far as I understand there are 2 possible reasons for going to C# if you are competent in VB.Net. 1. The one key point for going to C# as apposed to Vb.Net would be for performance. That is not the case as they both perform equally so what is the advantage. 2. The other point is that once an application is started in C# it has to be completed in C#. This is also not the case as .Net derivatives can be mixed and compiled. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 9:47 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] C# vs VB - was RE: Renaming DBA-VB William, I programmed for a couple of years completely and only in C for a uController project back in 96/97. I went there from Access 2.0 and returned to Access 97 (VBA). I know that the syntax for C# is quite close to VB.Net in a lot of ways and I also know that there are gotchas that have to be understood, remembered and handled. I think that going from VB.Net to C#.Net is a LOT easier than going from VBA to C#.Net for the simple reason that if you are fluent in VB.Net then you are no longer banging your head over the IDE, the plethora of .Net classes, the intricacies of inheritance, partial classes and so forth and so on. That is all handled and understood and NOW you can concentrate on syntax differences. I have been a programmer full time since 1996, with long stints in variances of basic as well as Pascal and "short" stints in C and I just found it irritating moving directly from VBA to C#. I made an educated decision to postpone the move to C# until I was up to speed on VB.Net. I have done translations of code segments between C# back to VB.Net and I can tell you that sometimes it is easy, sometimes it is not. There are things possible in C# that simply are not possible in VB.Net and, believe it or not, Vice Versa. Some of those differences are quite deep conceptually and can throw a major wrench in any conversion. I have not tried it lately, but I know that My. syntax (My.Computer) exists in VB but not in C#, at least in the past. Thus taking any code with My. constructs and porting them to C# requires quite in-depth knowledge of what the equivalent is. The My. construct is just a wrapper, but a wrapper of WHAT. That is just one quick example. So yes, in GENERAL the programming constructs all pretty much match one for one, { = Begin, } = End, For exists in both etc. Once you get past the basics however there are things which are not so quickly and easily translated. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 11:39 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB ...what many here apparently don't yet understand Gustav, is just how easy and rewarding the transition from vb.net (even vba) to c# really is in the dot.net environment ...I was a long time vba developer who got pushed into asp.net work by a client and automatically defaulted to using vb.net ...but so many of the samples and tutorials were posted in both vb.net and C# that it became quickly evident that it was mostly just syntax differences ...and minor ones at that ...and more and more of the samples/tutorials I was really interested in were available only in c# because vb.net simply could not do it as well if at all. ...my vote goes to dba.net on the simple basis that most questions posed in either .net language can be readily addressed by any one experienced in either ...besides which the free translators available have become quite adept at going to from either language. ...imnsho, dba.programming will suffer the same fate as dba.vb has but for exactly the opposite reason. ...my 2 cents, worth exactly what it cost you. William _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Tue Oct 23 12:43:09 2007 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 13:43:09 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] C# vs VB - was RE: Renaming DBA-VB References: <004701c81594$76b6be50$647aa8c0@M90> <004d01c81597$7a7dd110$647aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: <002901c8159c$2da13440$6b706c4c@JISREGISTRATION.local> ...without getting into an argument I have neither the time nor the acumen for, it would appear that you just made my case for dba.net :) ...the languages are virtually interchangeable front ends for the net framework ...and in fact can be used interchangeably within the framework in most circumstances ...why would we want to eliminate a large group of developers with common problems, resolutions, experiences, and code samples by limiting the new group to only vb.net? William ----- Original Message ----- From: "jwcolby" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 1:09 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] C# vs VB - was RE: Renaming DBA-VB > Jim, you forgot: > > Employers pay more for C# programmers > Examples are in C#. > > Both of those are true and valid reasons. The professionals state that in > general both VB and C# are capable. Both are a thin veneer over the .Net > framework. And each do have a VERY small handful of things that they can > do > that the other can't. > > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 1:03 PM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] C# vs VB - was RE: Renaming DBA-VB > > As far as I understand there are 2 possible reasons for going to C# if you > are competent in VB.Net. > > 1. The one key point for going to C# as apposed to Vb.Net would be for > performance. That is not the case as they both perform equally so what is > the advantage. > > 2. The other point is that once an application is started in C# it has to > be > completed in C#. This is also not the case as .Net derivatives can be > mixed > and compiled. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 9:47 AM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [dba-VB] C# vs VB - was RE: Renaming DBA-VB > > William, > > I programmed for a couple of years completely and only in C for a > uController project back in 96/97. I went there from Access 2.0 and > returned to Access 97 (VBA). I know that the syntax for C# is quite close > to VB.Net in a lot of ways and I also know that there are gotchas that > have > to be understood, remembered and handled. I think that going from VB.Net > to > C#.Net is a LOT easier than going from VBA to C#.Net for the simple reason > that if you are fluent in VB.Net then you are no longer banging your head > over the IDE, the plethora of .Net classes, the intricacies of > inheritance, > partial classes and so forth and so on. That is all handled and > understood > and NOW you can concentrate on syntax differences. > > I have been a programmer full time since 1996, with long stints in > variances > of basic as well as Pascal and "short" stints in C and I just found it > irritating moving directly from VBA to C#. I made an educated decision to > postpone the move to C# until I was up to speed on VB.Net. I have done > translations of code segments between C# back to VB.Net and I can tell you > that sometimes it is easy, sometimes it is not. There are things possible > in C# that simply are not possible in VB.Net and, believe it or not, Vice > Versa. Some of those differences are quite deep conceptually and can > throw > a major wrench in any conversion. > > I have not tried it lately, but I know that My. syntax (My.Computer) > exists > in VB but not in C#, at least in the past. Thus taking any code with My. > constructs and porting them to C# requires quite in-depth knowledge of > what > the equivalent is. The My. construct is just a wrapper, but a wrapper of > WHAT. That is just one quick example. > > So yes, in GENERAL the programming constructs all pretty much match one > for > one, { = Begin, } = End, For exists in both etc. Once you get past the > basics however there are things which are not so quickly and easily > translated. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman > Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 11:39 AM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > ...what many here apparently don't yet understand Gustav, is just how easy > and rewarding the transition from vb.net (even vba) to c# really is in the > dot.net environment ...I was a long time vba developer who got pushed into > asp.net work by a client and automatically defaulted to using vb.net > ...but > so many of the samples and tutorials were posted in both vb.net and C# > that > it became quickly evident that it was mostly just syntax differences > ...and > minor ones at that ...and more and more of the samples/tutorials I was > really interested in were available only in c# because vb.net simply > could > not do it as well if at all. > > ...my vote goes to dba.net on the simple basis that most questions posed > in > either .net language can be readily addressed by any one experienced in > either ...besides which the free translators available have become quite > adept at going to from either language. > > ...imnsho, dba.programming will suffer the same fate as dba.vb has but for > exactly the opposite reason. > > ...my 2 cents, worth exactly what it cost you. > > William > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Oct 23 13:08:40 2007 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 14:08:40 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] C# vs VB - was RE: Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: <002901c8159c$2da13440$6b706c4c@JISREGISTRATION.local> References: <004701c81594$76b6be50$647aa8c0@M90><004d01c81597$7a7dd110$647aa8c0@M90> <002901c8159c$2da13440$6b706c4c@JISREGISTRATION.local> Message-ID: <005101c8159f$be798f00$647aa8c0@M90> I have no problem with that, I just would hate to see it purport to be a knowledge base for every language under the sun. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 1:43 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] C# vs VB - was RE: Renaming DBA-VB ...without getting into an argument I have neither the time nor the acumen for, it would appear that you just made my case for dba.net :) ...the languages are virtually interchangeable front ends for the net framework ...and in fact can be used interchangeably within the framework in most circumstances ...why would we want to eliminate a large group of developers with common problems, resolutions, experiences, and code samples by limiting the new group to only vb.net? William ----- Original Message ----- From: "jwcolby" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 1:09 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] C# vs VB - was RE: Renaming DBA-VB > Jim, you forgot: > > Employers pay more for C# programmers > Examples are in C#. > > Both of those are true and valid reasons. The professionals state that in > general both VB and C# are capable. Both are a thin veneer over the .Net > framework. And each do have a VERY small handful of things that they can > do > that the other can't. > > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 1:03 PM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] C# vs VB - was RE: Renaming DBA-VB > > As far as I understand there are 2 possible reasons for going to C# if you > are competent in VB.Net. > > 1. The one key point for going to C# as apposed to Vb.Net would be for > performance. That is not the case as they both perform equally so what is > the advantage. > > 2. The other point is that once an application is started in C# it has to > be > completed in C#. This is also not the case as .Net derivatives can be > mixed > and compiled. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 9:47 AM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [dba-VB] C# vs VB - was RE: Renaming DBA-VB > > William, > > I programmed for a couple of years completely and only in C for a > uController project back in 96/97. I went there from Access 2.0 and > returned to Access 97 (VBA). I know that the syntax for C# is quite close > to VB.Net in a lot of ways and I also know that there are gotchas that > have > to be understood, remembered and handled. I think that going from VB.Net > to > C#.Net is a LOT easier than going from VBA to C#.Net for the simple reason > that if you are fluent in VB.Net then you are no longer banging your head > over the IDE, the plethora of .Net classes, the intricacies of > inheritance, > partial classes and so forth and so on. That is all handled and > understood > and NOW you can concentrate on syntax differences. > > I have been a programmer full time since 1996, with long stints in > variances > of basic as well as Pascal and "short" stints in C and I just found it > irritating moving directly from VBA to C#. I made an educated decision to > postpone the move to C# until I was up to speed on VB.Net. I have done > translations of code segments between C# back to VB.Net and I can tell you > that sometimes it is easy, sometimes it is not. There are things possible > in C# that simply are not possible in VB.Net and, believe it or not, Vice > Versa. Some of those differences are quite deep conceptually and can > throw > a major wrench in any conversion. > > I have not tried it lately, but I know that My. syntax (My.Computer) > exists > in VB but not in C#, at least in the past. Thus taking any code with My. > constructs and porting them to C# requires quite in-depth knowledge of > what > the equivalent is. The My. construct is just a wrapper, but a wrapper of > WHAT. That is just one quick example. > > So yes, in GENERAL the programming constructs all pretty much match one > for > one, { = Begin, } = End, For exists in both etc. Once you get past the > basics however there are things which are not so quickly and easily > translated. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman > Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 11:39 AM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > ...what many here apparently don't yet understand Gustav, is just how easy > and rewarding the transition from vb.net (even vba) to c# really is in the > dot.net environment ...I was a long time vba developer who got pushed into > asp.net work by a client and automatically defaulted to using vb.net > ...but > so many of the samples and tutorials were posted in both vb.net and C# > that > it became quickly evident that it was mostly just syntax differences > ...and > minor ones at that ...and more and more of the samples/tutorials I was > really interested in were available only in c# because vb.net simply > could > not do it as well if at all. > > ...my vote goes to dba.net on the simple basis that most questions posed > in > either .net language can be readily addressed by any one experienced in > either ...besides which the free translators available have become quite > adept at going to from either language. > > ...imnsho, dba.programming will suffer the same fate as dba.vb has but for > exactly the opposite reason. > > ...my 2 cents, worth exactly what it cost you. > > William > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From robert at webedb.com Tue Oct 23 13:13:09 2007 From: robert at webedb.com (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 13:13:09 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] C# vs VB - was RE: Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200710231818.l9NIInOt026521@databaseadvisors.com> The third is that it is what the customer wants. Most of the contracting in the Houston, TX area is for C# and not VB.net. No matter how you slice this one, it comes up C#. So, in the naming thing, DBA-DotNetLanguages is probably too broad. Create 2 new ones (at least) DBA-VBnet and DBA-C#. The the questions can fall where they belong. At 11:58 AM 10/23/2007, you wrote: >Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 10:02:44 -0700 >From: Jim Lawrence >Subject: Re: [dba-VB] C# vs VB - was RE: Renaming DBA-VB >To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com >Message-ID: > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > >As far as I understand there are 2 possible reasons for going to C# if you >are competent in VB.Net. > >1. The one key point for going to C# as apposed to Vb.Net would be for >performance. That is not the case as they both perform equally so what is >the advantage. > >2. The other point is that once an application is started in C# it has to be >completed in C#. This is also not the case as .Net derivatives can be mixed >and compiled. > >Jim From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue Oct 23 13:29:02 2007 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 20:29:02 +0200 Subject: [dba-VB] C# vs VB - was RE: Renaming DBA-VB Message-ID: Hi Robert I think the traffic on that new list would be too low ... /gustav >>> robert at webedb.com 23-10-2007 20:13:09 >>> The third is that it is what the customer wants. Most of the contracting in the Houston, TX area is for C# and not VB.net. No matter how you slice this one, it comes up C#. So, in the naming thing, DBA-DotNetLanguages is probably too broad. Create 2 new ones (at least) DBA-VBnet and DBA-C#. The the questions can fall where they belong. From michael at ddisolutions.com.au Tue Oct 23 18:54:56 2007 From: michael at ddisolutions.com.au (Michael Maddison) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 09:54:56 +1000 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB References: <004801c8158a$dac17200$6b706c4c@JISREGISTRATION.local> Message-ID: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D01289F54@ddi-01.DDI.local> I concur... Went exactly the same path as William, 1st .net project in VB since then C# exclusively. Amazing how many clients with bugger all experience in Dev specify C# as well... cheers Michael M ...what many here apparently don't yet understand Gustav, is just how easy and rewarding the transition from vb.net (even vba) to c# really is in the dot.net environment ...I was a long time vba developer who got pushed into asp.net work by a client and automatically defaulted to using vb.net ...but so many of the samples and tutorials were posted in both vb.net and C# that it became quickly evident that it was mostly just syntax differences ...and minor ones at that ...and more and more of the samples/tutorials I was really interested in were available only in c# because vb.net simply could not do it as well if at all. ...my vote goes to dba.net on the simple basis that most questions posed in either .net language can be readily addressed by any one experienced in either ...besides which the free translators available have become quite adept at going to from either language. ...imnsho, dba.programming will suffer the same fate as dba.vb has but for exactly the opposite reason. ...my 2 cents, worth exactly what it cost you. William ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 3:27 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > Hi John et al > > That covers pretty much my opinion. > However, the new name isn't important too me, I just found VB(6) too > restricted. I don't think anyone would be offended by a post on Java, > Python or any other language, even VBScript - in fact I would welcome it - > it's just that the audience with a relevant knowledge is quite limited so > response would probably be low. But could we develop an audience for, say, > Ruby On Rails it would be great. Even though we here at Cactus Data have > decided for Visual Studio and C#, I would at least browse such postings > because of the relevance to databases and because you can always learn > something. > > In fact, one of the strengths of our lists is the members' broad > background often supported by solid experience from real life, and we > should encourage any step to maintain this. > > /gustav > >>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 23-10-2007 00:29 >>> > This really isn't about the Access list. That will remain named as it is > I > presume. The discussion is about renaming the VB list to embrace a wider > audience. > > It is my opinion that we should not cast too wide a net or we will end up > attracting people for every platform under the sun and they will soon > leave > because there is no support available for their respective platform. > > I thought we should simply widen the target to include the .Net platform, > specifically VB.Net. The list is currently VB oriented, and widening the > scope to include VB.Net (which is a large percentage of the current > traffic) > would be entirely appropriate. > > Just my opinion. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael R Mattys > Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 6:21 PM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > I'm not interested in .Net anything, right now. > > I guess you're saying that both PHP and Ruby on Rails are irrelevant when > it > comes to Access? > > Michael R. Mattys > MapPoint & Access Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Oct 23 19:03:54 2007 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 17:03:54 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: <001701c814fb$043777f0$647aa8c0@M90> References: <200710222034.l9MKYsrO000925@databaseadvisors.com><00dd01c814f9$cd3146b0$0202a8c0@Laptop> <001701c814fb$043777f0$647aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: I agree, John, especially since we aren't creating a new forum, simply renaming one that hasn't been very active of late except in the VB.Net arena. Heck, we get questions in Access-D about Lotus Notes and a variety of other things that aren't Access or VBa. We go through this same process in Woody's Lounge when a new version of Office is released or a new version of Windows or Visual Studio. We added a new forum for .Net and let it go at that. I isn't just VB.Net, but also ADO.Net, ASP, WinForms, WebForms, etc. If we try to make the focus too broad it's more likely that people will go to a list with a name that relates to the help they want, so I consider Programming as way too broad a label unless you preface it with .Net Programming. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 3:30 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB This really isn't about the Access list. That will remain named as it is I presume. The discussion is about renaming the VB list to embrace a wider audience. It is my opinion that we should not cast too wide a net or we will end up attracting people for every platform under the sun and they will soon leave because there is no support available for their respective platform. I thought we should simply widen the target to include the .Net platform, specifically VB.Net. The list is currently VB oriented, and widening the scope to include VB.Net (which is a large percentage of the current traffic) would be entirely appropriate. Just my opinion. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael R Mattys Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 6:21 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I'm not interested in .Net anything, right now. I guess you're saying that both PHP and Ruby on Rails are irrelevant when it comes to Access? Michael R. Mattys MapPoint & Access Dev www.mattysconsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Tue Oct 23 23:03:54 2007 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 23:03:54 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: <003601c8156f$3108e9c0$647aa8c0@M90> References: <003601c8156f$3108e9c0$647aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: <000601c815f2$e4b33d80$6402a8c0@ScuzzPaq> LOL! That was a hoot! -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby ... C#, J#, F#, c#, D#, E# Z# and A flat Minor. From shamil at users.mns.ru Wed Oct 24 01:18:29 2007 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 10:18:29 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: <000601c815f2$e4b33d80$6402a8c0@ScuzzPaq> Message-ID: <000601c81605$b2ab56c0$6401a8c0@nant> <<< ... C#, J#, F#, c#, D#, E# Z# and A flat Minor. >>> Hi All, Let's start building the Tower of Babylon? :) (Just a rhetoric introductory question of course...) I personally *currently* prefer C# for VS-based DB-centered real-life projects' application programming... I'd not mind to develop MS Access 2003/2007/MS Office front-end if my customer will demand that but I will very probably explain/prove to my customer that using VBA/VB6 for anything more than "gluing" MS Access/Office front-end would be waste of resources these days when we have VS2005 for several years and when VS2008 (and .NET Framework 3.5 etc.etc. related) are to be released real soon... One year ago from now I was more VB.NET-ish than C#-ish :) I'd not mind to become Ruby-in-Steel-ish (http://www.sapphiresteel.com/Steel-Download-and-Change-Log ) one year from now and to get really artistic and efficient with it as this Ruby-dance clip shows http://www.metacafe.com/watch/292734/ruby_dancing/ :) I could even get Iron-Python-ish (http://www.devrush.com/world_web_development/world_web_development_blogs/20 07_08_14_13_45_265/full_news ) real soon especially taking into account that I currently programming mainly ASP.NET applications... IOW I mean that right tool should be used for right job/task and that means for me that limiting myself to one programming language is looking here like a loosing strategy - that (limited oneself to use one programming language/tool for every job/task) would look like that - http://www.metacafe.com/watch/881053/penguin_goes_in_shop/ - yes, it's funny and rather efficient but it's not: as artistic and efficient as this http://www.metacafe.com/watch/780405/the_best_goals_ever/ ... and it's not as flexible and free to go in every direction (when needed/forced by market/customers' demands) as this http://www.metacafe.com/watch/788432/extreme_ballerina_stretching/ ... and it (use of one language/tool) is not as hacky/tricky as this http://www.metacafe.com/watch/828731/trigger_green_traffic_lights/ (very efficient on demand "simple' trick :))... and this http://www.metacafe.com/watch/835982/how_to_make_blood_appear_in_body_withou t_any_wound/ (I mean knowing "alchemy" - the best effective and flexible way to use the mix of the modern programming languages/technologies within VS) often helps to keep (new) customers coming etc.etc. :) ) IOW I'm voting/going for being proficient in several programming languages/technologies to be able to speed-up/slow-down when needed (http://www.metacafe.com/watch/880972/viewty/ ) but I'm also voting for/going to use VS IDE as the base (limiting) framework to stay focused on mainstream technologies/development tools, which VS IDE brings so plenty these days... But I'd mainly "limit" myself by VS IDE -enabled programming languages, technologies and .NET Framework for developing core functionality of my customers' applications because VS look like universal and efficient enough for the tasks I'm going to work on: the rest of the tasks if they come I'd subcontract to anybody else with pleasure... And then I (hope) I will have enough spare time for the pleasure of playing and watching tennis http://www.metacafe.com/watch/770613/maria_sharapova/ and traveling to watch the funny events like this one http://www.metacafe.com/watch/786303/bathroom_break/ :) Just wanted to make funny and joyful this becoming a little bit "religious" and boring thread... Sorry if my this posting may sound "religious and boring" for somebody here... Thanks :) -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 8:04 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB LOL! That was a hoot! -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby ... C#, J#, F#, c#, D#, E# Z# and A flat Minor. _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From R.Griffiths at bury.gov.uk Wed Oct 24 03:44:55 2007 From: R.Griffiths at bury.gov.uk (Griffiths, Richard) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 09:44:55 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: References: <200710222034.l9MKYsrO000925@databaseadvisors.com><00dd01c814f9$cd3146b0$0202a8c0@Laptop><001701c814fb$043777f0$647aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: <200710240829.l9O8TMw03053@smarthost.yourcomms.net> I used to use AccessD regularly as most of my development was in MS Access - I still get the emails and use as required (I decided to bite the bullet on throw my efforts in to .NET (VB)). So from someone looking in (more objectively?) I would agree with Charlotte - you are not creating a new forum simply renaming / updating an existing one - go with that. -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: 24 October 2007 01:04 To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I agree, John, especially since we aren't creating a new forum, simply renaming one that hasn't been very active of late except in the VB.Net arena. Heck, we get questions in Access-D about Lotus Notes and a variety of other things that aren't Access or VBa. We go through this same process in Woody's Lounge when a new version of Office is released or a new version of Windows or Visual Studio. We added a new forum for .Net and let it go at that. I isn't just VB.Net, but also ADO.Net, ASP, WinForms, WebForms, etc. If we try to make the focus too broad it's more likely that people will go to a list with a name that relates to the help they want, so I consider Programming as way too broad a label unless you preface it with .Net Programming. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 3:30 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB This really isn't about the Access list. That will remain named as it is I presume. The discussion is about renaming the VB list to embrace a wider audience. It is my opinion that we should not cast too wide a net or we will end up attracting people for every platform under the sun and they will soon leave because there is no support available for their respective platform. I thought we should simply widen the target to include the .Net platform, specifically VB.Net. The list is currently VB oriented, and widening the scope to include VB.Net (which is a large percentage of the current traffic) would be entirely appropriate. Just my opinion. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael R Mattys Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 6:21 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I'm not interested in .Net anything, right now. I guess you're saying that both PHP and Ruby on Rails are irrelevant when it comes to Access? Michael R. Mattys MapPoint & Access Dev www.mattysconsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Oct 24 14:12:04 2007 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 12:12:04 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: <000601c81605$b2ab56c0$6401a8c0@nant> Message-ID: I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering that its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the speed of any .Net flavour. A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not impressed with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was required to write extensive notes in the code. His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 11:18 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB <<< ... C#, J#, F#, c#, D#, E# Z# and A flat Minor. >>> Hi All, Let's start building the Tower of Babylon? :) (Just a rhetoric introductory question of course...) I personally *currently* prefer C# for VS-based DB-centered real-life projects' application programming... I'd not mind to develop MS Access 2003/2007/MS Office front-end if my customer will demand that but I will very probably explain/prove to my customer that using VBA/VB6 for anything more than "gluing" MS Access/Office front-end would be waste of resources these days when we have VS2005 for several years and when VS2008 (and .NET Framework 3.5 etc.etc. related) are to be released real soon... One year ago from now I was more VB.NET-ish than C#-ish :) I'd not mind to become Ruby-in-Steel-ish (http://www.sapphiresteel.com/Steel-Download-and-Change-Log ) one year from now and to get really artistic and efficient with it as this Ruby-dance clip shows http://www.metacafe.com/watch/292734/ruby_dancing/ :) I could even get Iron-Python-ish (http://www.devrush.com/world_web_development/world_web_development_blogs/20 07_08_14_13_45_265/full_news ) real soon especially taking into account that I currently programming mainly ASP.NET applications... IOW I mean that right tool should be used for right job/task and that means for me that limiting myself to one programming language is looking here like a loosing strategy - that (limited oneself to use one programming language/tool for every job/task) would look like that - http://www.metacafe.com/watch/881053/penguin_goes_in_shop/ - yes, it's funny and rather efficient but it's not: as artistic and efficient as this http://www.metacafe.com/watch/780405/the_best_goals_ever/ ... and it's not as flexible and free to go in every direction (when needed/forced by market/customers' demands) as this http://www.metacafe.com/watch/788432/extreme_ballerina_stretching/ ... and it (use of one language/tool) is not as hacky/tricky as this http://www.metacafe.com/watch/828731/trigger_green_traffic_lights/ (very efficient on demand "simple' trick :))... and this http://www.metacafe.com/watch/835982/how_to_make_blood_appear_in_body_withou t_any_wound/ (I mean knowing "alchemy" - the best effective and flexible way to use the mix of the modern programming languages/technologies within VS) often helps to keep (new) customers coming etc.etc. :) ) IOW I'm voting/going for being proficient in several programming languages/technologies to be able to speed-up/slow-down when needed (http://www.metacafe.com/watch/880972/viewty/ ) but I'm also voting for/going to use VS IDE as the base (limiting) framework to stay focused on mainstream technologies/development tools, which VS IDE brings so plenty these days... But I'd mainly "limit" myself by VS IDE -enabled programming languages, technologies and .NET Framework for developing core functionality of my customers' applications because VS look like universal and efficient enough for the tasks I'm going to work on: the rest of the tasks if they come I'd subcontract to anybody else with pleasure... And then I (hope) I will have enough spare time for the pleasure of playing and watching tennis http://www.metacafe.com/watch/770613/maria_sharapova/ and traveling to watch the funny events like this one http://www.metacafe.com/watch/786303/bathroom_break/ :) Just wanted to make funny and joyful this becoming a little bit "religious" and boring thread... Sorry if my this posting may sound "religious and boring" for somebody here... Thanks :) -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 8:04 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB LOL! That was a hoot! -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby ... C#, J#, F#, c#, D#, E# Z# and A flat Minor. _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Oct 24 20:45:50 2007 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 18:45:50 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <6568A7509F5248339AF9C2EB443C7C51@creativesystemdesigns.com> I do not usually answer my own emails but... I must qualify my last comments as I was unaware of the product cost which had me fumbling for my oxygen mask as soon as I saw it. Fortunately there are evaluation copies available. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:12 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering that its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the speed of any .Net flavour. A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not impressed with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was required to write extensive notes in the code. His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 11:18 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB <<< ... C#, J#, F#, c#, D#, E# Z# and A flat Minor. >>> Hi All, Let's start building the Tower of Babylon? :) (Just a rhetoric introductory question of course...) I personally *currently* prefer C# for VS-based DB-centered real-life projects' application programming... I'd not mind to develop MS Access 2003/2007/MS Office front-end if my customer will demand that but I will very probably explain/prove to my customer that using VBA/VB6 for anything more than "gluing" MS Access/Office front-end would be waste of resources these days when we have VS2005 for several years and when VS2008 (and .NET Framework 3.5 etc.etc. related) are to be released real soon... One year ago from now I was more VB.NET-ish than C#-ish :) I'd not mind to become Ruby-in-Steel-ish (http://www.sapphiresteel.com/Steel-Download-and-Change-Log ) one year from now and to get really artistic and efficient with it as this Ruby-dance clip shows http://www.metacafe.com/watch/292734/ruby_dancing/ :) I could even get Iron-Python-ish (http://www.devrush.com/world_web_development/world_web_development_blogs/20 07_08_14_13_45_265/full_news ) real soon especially taking into account that I currently programming mainly ASP.NET applications... IOW I mean that right tool should be used for right job/task and that means for me that limiting myself to one programming language is looking here like a loosing strategy - that (limited oneself to use one programming language/tool for every job/task) would look like that - http://www.metacafe.com/watch/881053/penguin_goes_in_shop/ - yes, it's funny and rather efficient but it's not: as artistic and efficient as this http://www.metacafe.com/watch/780405/the_best_goals_ever/ ... and it's not as flexible and free to go in every direction (when needed/forced by market/customers' demands) as this http://www.metacafe.com/watch/788432/extreme_ballerina_stretching/ ... and it (use of one language/tool) is not as hacky/tricky as this http://www.metacafe.com/watch/828731/trigger_green_traffic_lights/ (very efficient on demand "simple' trick :))... and this http://www.metacafe.com/watch/835982/how_to_make_blood_appear_in_body_withou t_any_wound/ (I mean knowing "alchemy" - the best effective and flexible way to use the mix of the modern programming languages/technologies within VS) often helps to keep (new) customers coming etc.etc. :) ) IOW I'm voting/going for being proficient in several programming languages/technologies to be able to speed-up/slow-down when needed (http://www.metacafe.com/watch/880972/viewty/ ) but I'm also voting for/going to use VS IDE as the base (limiting) framework to stay focused on mainstream technologies/development tools, which VS IDE brings so plenty these days... But I'd mainly "limit" myself by VS IDE -enabled programming languages, technologies and .NET Framework for developing core functionality of my customers' applications because VS look like universal and efficient enough for the tasks I'm going to work on: the rest of the tasks if they come I'd subcontract to anybody else with pleasure... And then I (hope) I will have enough spare time for the pleasure of playing and watching tennis http://www.metacafe.com/watch/770613/maria_sharapova/ and traveling to watch the funny events like this one http://www.metacafe.com/watch/786303/bathroom_break/ :) Just wanted to make funny and joyful this becoming a little bit "religious" and boring thread... Sorry if my this posting may sound "religious and boring" for somebody here... Thanks :) -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 8:04 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB LOL! That was a hoot! -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby ... C#, J#, F#, c#, D#, E# Z# and A flat Minor. _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Wed Oct 24 21:08:57 2007 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Michael R Mattys) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 22:08:57 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB References: <6568A7509F5248339AF9C2EB443C7C51@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <01b101c816ac$03e319a0$0202a8c0@Laptop> Glad to hear some news on this, since I decided to go with PHP and its adodb data-abstraction layer add-on. I will use MySQL or SQLite for which this wrapper is used http://www.thecommon.net/2.html Michael R. Mattys MapPoint & Access Dev www.mattysconsulting.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 9:45 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB >I do not usually answer my own emails but... > > I must qualify my last comments as I was unaware of the product cost which > had me fumbling for my oxygen mask as soon as I saw it. > > Fortunately there are evaluation copies available. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:12 PM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering > that > its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the > speed of any .Net flavour. > > A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not impressed > with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was > required to write extensive notes in the code. > > His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: > http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ > > Jim > From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Oct 25 01:40:58 2007 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 23:40:58 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: <01b101c816ac$03e319a0$0202a8c0@Laptop> Message-ID: Hi Michael: That sounds like an excellent choice for a low cost development environment. Are you also planning to migrate to the Linux OS as well? Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael R Mattys Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 7:09 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Glad to hear some news on this, since I decided to go with PHP and its adodb data-abstraction layer add-on. I will use MySQL or SQLite for which this wrapper is used http://www.thecommon.net/2.html Michael R. Mattys MapPoint & Access Dev www.mattysconsulting.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 9:45 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB >I do not usually answer my own emails but... > > I must qualify my last comments as I was unaware of the product cost which > had me fumbling for my oxygen mask as soon as I saw it. > > Fortunately there are evaluation copies available. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:12 PM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering > that > its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the > speed of any .Net flavour. > > A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not impressed > with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was > required to write extensive notes in the code. > > His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: > http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ > > Jim > _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at users.mns.ru Thu Oct 25 01:48:08 2007 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 10:48:08 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: <6568A7509F5248339AF9C2EB443C7C51@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <000001c816d3$00905a70$6401a8c0@nant> <<< I was unaware of the product cost.... >>> Hi Jim. Yes, I have just checked the price - it looks unaffordable for small-/middle-size businesses. Yes, there is evaluation version but... I'd currently think that ASP.NET and C#/VB.NET(VS Express) + MS SQL 2005 Express/Access backend DB is the best ever available toolset for Web (and whatever else) real life business applications development... And they are free for download and use, aren't they?... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:46 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I do not usually answer my own emails but... I must qualify my last comments as I was unaware of the product cost which had me fumbling for my oxygen mask as soon as I saw it. Fortunately there are evaluation copies available. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:12 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering that its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the speed of any .Net flavour. A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not impressed with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was required to write extensive notes in the code. His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ Jim <<< tail of the message trimmed to preserve some cyberspace >>> From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Thu Oct 25 03:24:11 2007 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 04:24:11 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB References: <000001c816d3$00905a70$6401a8c0@nant> Message-ID: <000701c816e0$6c2aaa80$6b706c4c@jisshowsbs.local> Shamil ...yes, free!!! ...the express products value has been simply incredible for me ...I've yet to run into anything I could do with Access that I can't find a way to do with one or more of the express products ...and the amount/quality of code/support available on-line is every bit as good ...I still tend to model an app in Access first but I'm now starting to deliver in VS/SQL Server ...and the client sales are soooooo much easier in most cases. William ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shamil Salakhetdinov" To: Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 2:48 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > <<< > I was unaware of the product cost.... >>>> > Hi Jim. > > Yes, I have just checked the price - it looks unaffordable for > small-/middle-size businesses. Yes, there is evaluation version but... > > I'd currently think that ASP.NET and C#/VB.NET(VS Express) + MS SQL 2005 > Express/Access backend DB is the best ever available toolset for Web (and > whatever else) real life business applications development... > > And they are free for download and use, aren't they?... > > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:46 AM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > I do not usually answer my own emails but... > > I must qualify my last comments as I was unaware of the product cost which > had me fumbling for my oxygen mask as soon as I saw it. > > Fortunately there are evaluation copies available. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:12 PM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering > that > its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the > speed of any .Net flavour. > > A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not impressed > with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was > required to write extensive notes in the code. > > His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: > http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ > > Jim > > <<< tail of the message trimmed to preserve some cyberspace >>> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Oct 25 07:03:08 2007 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 14:03:08 +0200 Subject: [dba-VB] Browsing records (was: Renaming DBA-VB) Message-ID: Hi William Which control do you use for browsing records on forms? The default dataTableBindingNavigator? If so, have you managed to undock it so it can float? I have the GripStyle set to Visible, but the toolstrip is not to grip and move around. /gustav >>> wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com 25-10-2007 10:24 >>> Shamil ...yes, free!!! ...the express products value has been simply incredible for me ...I've yet to run into anything I could do with Access that I can't find a way to do with one or more of the express products ...and the amount/quality of code/support available on-line is every bit as good ...I still tend to model an app in Access first but I'm now starting to deliver in VS/SQL Server ...and the client sales are soooooo much easier in most cases. William ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shamil Salakhetdinov" To: Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 2:48 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > <<< > I was unaware of the product cost.... >>>> > Hi Jim. > > Yes, I have just checked the price - it looks unaffordable for > small-/middle-size businesses. Yes, there is evaluation version but... > > I'd currently think that ASP.NET and C#/VB.NET(VS Express) + MS SQL 2005 > Express/Access backend DB is the best ever available toolset for Web (and > whatever else) real life business applications development... > > And they are free for download and use, aren't they?... > > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:46 AM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > I do not usually answer my own emails but... > > I must qualify my last comments as I was unaware of the product cost which > had me fumbling for my oxygen mask as soon as I saw it. > > Fortunately there are evaluation copies available. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:12 PM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering > that > its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the > speed of any .Net flavour. > > A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not impressed > with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was > required to write extensive notes in the code. > > His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: > http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ > > Jim From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Thu Oct 25 07:15:07 2007 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Michael R Mattys) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 08:15:07 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB References: Message-ID: <01f701c81700$af43e3c0$0202a8c0@Laptop> Jim, I don't have plans to work with Linux yet, but I certainly would like to learn it. Michael R. Mattys MapPoint & Access Dev www.mattysconsulting.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence" To: Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 2:40 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > Hi Michael: > > That sounds like an excellent choice for a low cost development > environment. > Are you also planning to migrate to the Linux OS as well? > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael R Mattys > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 7:09 PM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > Glad to hear some news on this, since I decided to go with PHP > and its adodb data-abstraction layer add-on. > > I will use MySQL or SQLite for which this wrapper is used > http://www.thecommon.net/2.html > > Michael R. Mattys > MapPoint & Access Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim Lawrence" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 9:45 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > >>I do not usually answer my own emails but... >> >> I must qualify my last comments as I was unaware of the product cost >> which >> had me fumbling for my oxygen mask as soon as I saw it. >> >> Fortunately there are evaluation copies available. >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence >> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:12 PM >> To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB >> >> I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering >> that >> its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the >> speed of any .Net flavour. >> >> A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not >> impressed >> with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was >> required to write extensive notes in the code. >> >> His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: >> http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ >> >> Jim >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at users.mns.ru Thu Oct 25 07:50:30 2007 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 16:50:30 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: <000701c816e0$6c2aaa80$6b706c4c@jisshowsbs.local> Message-ID: <000b01c81705$a040b650$6401a8c0@nant> Yes, William, And there are no hidden costs (?), are there? (I assume that MS Windows is the target platform of course...) And the move from VBA/VB6 to VB2005 (and C# 2.0) is usually smooth because there so many analogies between WinForms/ASP.Net and MS Access forms programming and because VB2005/C# 2.0 has all VBA/VB6 built-in functions implemented etc. ... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 12:24 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Shamil ...yes, free!!! ...the express products value has been simply incredible for me ...I've yet to run into anything I could do with Access that I can't find a way to do with one or more of the express products ...and the amount/quality of code/support available on-line is every bit as good ...I still tend to model an app in Access first but I'm now starting to deliver in VS/SQL Server ...and the client sales are soooooo much easier in most cases. William ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shamil Salakhetdinov" To: Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 2:48 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > <<< > I was unaware of the product cost.... >>>> > Hi Jim. > > Yes, I have just checked the price - it looks unaffordable for > small-/middle-size businesses. Yes, there is evaluation version but... > > I'd currently think that ASP.NET and C#/VB.NET(VS Express) + MS SQL 2005 > Express/Access backend DB is the best ever available toolset for Web (and > whatever else) real life business applications development... > > And they are free for download and use, aren't they?... > > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:46 AM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > I do not usually answer my own emails but... > > I must qualify my last comments as I was unaware of the product cost which > had me fumbling for my oxygen mask as soon as I saw it. > > Fortunately there are evaluation copies available. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:12 PM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering > that > its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the > speed of any .Net flavour. > > A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not impressed > with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was > required to write extensive notes in the code. > > His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: > http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ > > Jim > > <<< tail of the message trimmed to preserve some cyberspace >>> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at users.mns.ru Thu Oct 25 07:58:47 2007 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 16:58:47 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Browsing records (was: Renaming DBA-VB) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001201c81706$c8593030$6401a8c0@nant> Hi Gustav, Just set Dock style to None and then you can freely move and place xBindingNavigator whenever you wanted to have it on a WinForm... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 4:03 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] Browsing records (was: Renaming DBA-VB) Hi William Which control do you use for browsing records on forms? The default dataTableBindingNavigator? If so, have you managed to undock it so it can float? I have the GripStyle set to Visible, but the toolstrip is not to grip and move around. /gustav >>> wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com 25-10-2007 10:24 >>> Shamil ...yes, free!!! ...the express products value has been simply incredible for me ...I've yet to run into anything I could do with Access that I can't find a way to do with one or more of the express products ...and the amount/quality of code/support available on-line is every bit as good ...I still tend to model an app in Access first but I'm now starting to deliver in VS/SQL Server ...and the client sales are soooooo much easier in most cases. William ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shamil Salakhetdinov" To: Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 2:48 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > <<< > I was unaware of the product cost.... >>>> > Hi Jim. > > Yes, I have just checked the price - it looks unaffordable for > small-/middle-size businesses. Yes, there is evaluation version but... > > I'd currently think that ASP.NET and C#/VB.NET(VS Express) + MS SQL 2005 > Express/Access backend DB is the best ever available toolset for Web (and > whatever else) real life business applications development... > > And they are free for download and use, aren't they?... > > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:46 AM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > I do not usually answer my own emails but... > > I must qualify my last comments as I was unaware of the product cost which > had me fumbling for my oxygen mask as soon as I saw it. > > Fortunately there are evaluation copies available. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:12 PM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering > that > its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the > speed of any .Net flavour. > > A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not impressed > with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was > required to write extensive notes in the code. > > His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: > http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ > > Jim _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Oct 25 08:21:29 2007 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 15:21:29 +0200 Subject: [dba-VB] Browsing records (was: Renaming DBA-VB) Message-ID: Hi Shamil Yes, but in design mode only. I thought, having the dotted grip farmost left visible, the user could drag the control around with the mouse- as you can do with a toolbar in Access? /gustav >>> shamil at users.mns.ru 25-10-2007 14:58 >>> Hi Gustav, Just set Dock style to None and then you can freely move and place xBindingNavigator whenever you wanted to have it on a WinForm... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 4:03 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] Browsing records (was: Renaming DBA-VB) Hi William Which control do you use for browsing records on forms? The default dataTableBindingNavigator? If so, have you managed to undock it so it can float? I have the GripStyle set to Visible, but the toolstrip is not to grip and move around. /gustav From shamil at users.mns.ru Thu Oct 25 09:14:50 2007 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 18:14:50 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Browsing records (was: Renaming DBA-VB) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001101c81711$6926c310$6401a8c0@nant> Hi Gustav, I do not know about this feature - I'd expect for that kind of stuff you'll need to purchase third-party controls as e.g. http://www.divil.co.uk/net/controls/sandribbon/ ... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:21 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Browsing records (was: Renaming DBA-VB) Hi Shamil Yes, but in design mode only. I thought, having the dotted grip farmost left visible, the user could drag the control around with the mouse- as you can do with a toolbar in Access? /gustav >>> shamil at users.mns.ru 25-10-2007 14:58 >>> Hi Gustav, Just set Dock style to None and then you can freely move and place xBindingNavigator whenever you wanted to have it on a WinForm... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 4:03 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] Browsing records (was: Renaming DBA-VB) Hi William Which control do you use for browsing records on forms? The default dataTableBindingNavigator? If so, have you managed to undock it so it can float? I have the GripStyle set to Visible, but the toolstrip is not to grip and move around. /gustav _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Oct 25 10:05:13 2007 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 17:05:13 +0200 Subject: [dba-VB] Browsing records (was: Renaming DBA-VB) Message-ID: Hi Shamil That I could do, but I just wondered what the grip is for if the control cannot be moved around? The control as is, is fine for most tasks. /gustav >>> shamil at users.mns.ru 25-10-2007 16:14 >>> Hi Gustav, I do not know about this feature - I'd expect for that kind of stuff you'll need to purchase third-party controls as e.g. http://www.divil.co.uk/net/controls/sandribbon/ ... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:21 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Browsing records (was: Renaming DBA-VB) Hi Shamil Yes, but in design mode only. I thought, having the dotted grip farmost left visible, the user could drag the control around with the mouse- as you can do with a toolbar in Access? /gustav >>> shamil at users.mns.ru 25-10-2007 14:58 >>> Hi Gustav, Just set Dock style to None and then you can freely move and place xBindingNavigator whenever you wanted to have it on a WinForm... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 4:03 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] Browsing records (was: Renaming DBA-VB) Hi William Which control do you use for browsing records on forms? The default dataTableBindingNavigator? If so, have you managed to undock it so it can float? I have the GripStyle set to Visible, but the toolstrip is not to grip and move around. /gustav From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Thu Oct 25 11:57:55 2007 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 12:57:55 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB References: <000b01c81705$a040b650$6401a8c0@nant> Message-ID: <002b01c81728$30c1ff50$6b706c4c@jisshowsbs.local> ...I don't see any hidden costs in my work as yet ...I've converted a mid sized Access app for a client to a browser based one running on his intranet with .net3 and VWDE ...the open source Ajax Control Tool Kit along with MS's control extension abilities and SSE go together like peanutbutter and jelly ...once you have the pieces in place and have worked through a few samples, its almost as easy as Access ...but you get really good speed from a server based app with the advantages of SQL Server as well. ...granted that I've not ventured far from the beaten path as you and Gustav are wont to do but then I'm still wondering why I waited so long, eh ...in all honesty I'd still be plugging away at vb if it weren't for all the sample code out there pulished in both vb and c# making it apparent that even a hack like me could write reasonably acceptable C# code. ...and you are definitely right about the similarities in writing code, designing forms, etc ...dotnet2 and above has so much built into the framework that one of the major advantages of Access, at least it always was to me, simply no longer applies ...once you sync your brain with the object inheritence paradyme, I'm convinced that I'm actually writing less code and getting more from it. ...and every line, every form, every table are all free, MS tool based ...and they still get all the pros and cons of being part of the MS software stable ...my only concern right now is that MS will back off the express product line because there are so many like me who no longer need to invest thousands in their development tools every year ...with the client I mentioned above, the rationale behind standardizing on MS Office no longer exists and converting to one of the Open Office products is a real possibility ...that's a threat to the MS bread & butter. William ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shamil Salakhetdinov" To: Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 8:50 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > Yes, William, > > And there are no hidden costs (?), are there? (I assume that MS Windows is > the target platform of course...) > > And the move from VBA/VB6 to VB2005 (and C# 2.0) is usually smooth because > there so many analogies between WinForms/ASP.Net and MS Access forms > programming and because VB2005/C# 2.0 has all VBA/VB6 built-in functions > implemented etc. ... > > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman > Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 12:24 PM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > Shamil > > ...yes, free!!! ...the express products value has been simply incredible > for > > me ...I've yet to run into anything I could do with Access that I can't > find > > a way to do with one or more of the express products ...and the > amount/quality of code/support available on-line is every bit as good ...I > still tend to model an app in Access first but I'm now starting to deliver > in VS/SQL Server ...and the client sales are soooooo much easier in most > cases. > > William > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Shamil Salakhetdinov" > To: > Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 2:48 AM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > >> <<< >> I was unaware of the product cost.... >>>>> >> Hi Jim. >> >> Yes, I have just checked the price - it looks unaffordable for >> small-/middle-size businesses. Yes, there is evaluation version but... >> >> I'd currently think that ASP.NET and C#/VB.NET(VS Express) + MS SQL 2005 >> Express/Access backend DB is the best ever available toolset for Web (and >> whatever else) real life business applications development... >> >> And they are free for download and use, aren't they?... >> >> >> -- >> Shamil >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence >> Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:46 AM >> To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB >> >> I do not usually answer my own emails but... >> >> I must qualify my last comments as I was unaware of the product cost >> which >> had me fumbling for my oxygen mask as soon as I saw it. >> >> Fortunately there are evaluation copies available. >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence >> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:12 PM >> To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB >> >> I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering >> that >> its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the >> speed of any .Net flavour. >> >> A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not >> impressed >> with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was >> required to write extensive notes in the code. >> >> His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: >> http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ >> >> Jim >> >> <<< tail of the message trimmed to preserve some cyberspace >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-VB mailing list >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Thu Oct 25 12:00:10 2007 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 13:00:10 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Browsing records (was: Renaming DBA-VB) References: Message-ID: <002f01c81728$81133730$6b706c4c@jisshowsbs.local> Gustav ...sorry, hadn't even thought of trying that yet ...still getting my feet wet here ...the soles, eh :) William ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 8:03 AM Subject: [dba-VB] Browsing records (was: Renaming DBA-VB) > Hi William > > Which control do you use for browsing records on forms? The default > dataTableBindingNavigator? > If so, have you managed to undock it so it can float? I have the GripStyle > set to Visible, but the toolstrip is not to grip and move around. > > /gustav > >>>> wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com 25-10-2007 10:24 >>> > Shamil > > ...yes, free!!! ...the express products value has been simply incredible > for > me ...I've yet to run into anything I could do with Access that I can't > find > a way to do with one or more of the express products ...and the > amount/quality of code/support available on-line is every bit as good ...I > still tend to model an app in Access first but I'm now starting to deliver > in VS/SQL Server ...and the client sales are soooooo much easier in most > cases. > > William > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Shamil Salakhetdinov" > To: > Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 2:48 AM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > >> <<< >> I was unaware of the product cost.... >>>>> >> Hi Jim. >> >> Yes, I have just checked the price - it looks unaffordable for >> small-/middle-size businesses. Yes, there is evaluation version but... >> >> I'd currently think that ASP.NET and C#/VB.NET(VS Express) + MS SQL 2005 >> Express/Access backend DB is the best ever available toolset for Web (and >> whatever else) real life business applications development... >> >> And they are free for download and use, aren't they?... >> >> >> -- >> Shamil >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence >> Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:46 AM >> To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB >> >> I do not usually answer my own emails but... >> >> I must qualify my last comments as I was unaware of the product cost >> which >> had me fumbling for my oxygen mask as soon as I saw it. >> >> Fortunately there are evaluation copies available. >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence >> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:12 PM >> To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB >> >> I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering >> that >> its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the >> speed of any .Net flavour. >> >> A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not >> impressed >> with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was >> required to write extensive notes in the code. >> >> His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: >> http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ >> >> Jim > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Oct 25 12:18:08 2007 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 10:18:08 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: <000001c816d3$00905a70$6401a8c0@nant> Message-ID: <399F05E3795142BAB07BC21F4B78795B@creativesystemdesigns.com> Shamil... you are correct in all that. This friend who is strongly recommending Eiffel is planning on leaving his current job soon and as his wife now has an excellent job at the college and he has decided to go freelance. He wants to work with me on projects and is planning on buying a full licensed version.... To make a short story long I may be becoming an Eiffel guru whether I want to or not. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 11:48 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB <<< I was unaware of the product cost.... >>> Hi Jim. Yes, I have just checked the price - it looks unaffordable for small-/middle-size businesses. Yes, there is evaluation version but... I'd currently think that ASP.NET and C#/VB.NET(VS Express) + MS SQL 2005 Express/Access backend DB is the best ever available toolset for Web (and whatever else) real life business applications development... And they are free for download and use, aren't they?... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:46 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I do not usually answer my own emails but... I must qualify my last comments as I was unaware of the product cost which had me fumbling for my oxygen mask as soon as I saw it. Fortunately there are evaluation copies available. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:12 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering that its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the speed of any .Net flavour. A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not impressed with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was required to write extensive notes in the code. His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ Jim <<< tail of the message trimmed to preserve some cyberspace >>> _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Oct 25 12:18:02 2007 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 19:18:02 +0200 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Message-ID: Hi Jim Interesting. Perhaps your friend could tell us briefly about the highlights of Eiffel? Why is it worth the money? /gustav >>> accessd at shaw.ca 25-10-2007 19:18 >>> Shamil... you are correct in all that. This friend who is strongly recommending Eiffel is planning on leaving his current job soon and as his wife now has an excellent job at the college and he has decided to go freelance. He wants to work with me on projects and is planning on buying a full licensed version.... To make a short story long I may be becoming an Eiffel guru whether I want to or not. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 11:48 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB <<< I was unaware of the product cost.... >>> Hi Jim. Yes, I have just checked the price - it looks unaffordable for small-/middle-size businesses. Yes, there is evaluation version but... I'd currently think that ASP.NET and C#/VB.NET(VS Express) + MS SQL 2005 Express/Access backend DB is the best ever available toolset for Web (and whatever else) real life business applications development... And they are free for download and use, aren't they?... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:46 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I do not usually answer my own emails but... I must qualify my last comments as I was unaware of the product cost which had me fumbling for my oxygen mask as soon as I saw it. Fortunately there are evaluation copies available. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:12 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering that its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the speed of any .Net flavour. A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not impressed with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was required to write extensive notes in the code. His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ Jim From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Oct 25 12:44:49 2007 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 10:44:49 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Gustav: I am not qualified to give comment of the Eiffel product myself as all my knowledge is second hand but I have passed your query on to my friend and when he responds I will post his email here. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 10:18 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Hi Jim Interesting. Perhaps your friend could tell us briefly about the highlights of Eiffel? Why is it worth the money? /gustav >>> accessd at shaw.ca 25-10-2007 19:18 >>> Shamil... you are correct in all that. This friend who is strongly recommending Eiffel is planning on leaving his current job soon and as his wife now has an excellent job at the college and he has decided to go freelance. He wants to work with me on projects and is planning on buying a full licensed version.... To make a short story long I may be becoming an Eiffel guru whether I want to or not. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 11:48 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB <<< I was unaware of the product cost.... >>> Hi Jim. Yes, I have just checked the price - it looks unaffordable for small-/middle-size businesses. Yes, there is evaluation version but... I'd currently think that ASP.NET and C#/VB.NET(VS Express) + MS SQL 2005 Express/Access backend DB is the best ever available toolset for Web (and whatever else) real life business applications development... And they are free for download and use, aren't they?... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:46 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I do not usually answer my own emails but... I must qualify my last comments as I was unaware of the product cost which had me fumbling for my oxygen mask as soon as I saw it. Fortunately there are evaluation copies available. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:12 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering that its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the speed of any .Net flavour. A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not impressed with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was required to write extensive notes in the code. His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ Jim _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at users.mns.ru Thu Oct 25 13:48:39 2007 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 22:48:39 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: <399F05E3795142BAB07BC21F4B78795B@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <000001c81737$a8c4f7a0$6401a8c0@nant> Hi Jim, Yes, Eiffel looks like a very advanced programming language but going freelance "armored" with Eiffel doesn't this sound very ambitious?... I mean risky... Or your friend has a good customer base who will for sure supply him and you with Eiffel based software development for many years ahead? Then you should be safe... I remember quite some time ago I did develop software using truly 4G OO DataFlex programming language: that was a real fun to program but then I had found that MS Access 1.1 allows me to achieve better results in shorter time but using "ugly" VBA coding - and I switched to MS Access 1.1 VBA to make money for living, better money than truly 4G OO DataFlex allowed me to make before... I mean C# and VB.NET with every new version are obviously acquiring the best features of the other modern state-of-the-art programming languages as e.g. Eiffel is: in 5(?) years it will be not easy to distinguish C# from Eiffel and VB.Net from Ruby (not by their syntax but by their expressive power)... And I wonder what currently Eiffel can give for real business applications software development, which can't be done using C#/VB.NET maybe a little bit less effective but just a little bit?... Yes, as Gustav, I'd be also very interested to hear your friend's opinion why he is going to "bet on Eiffel"?... Thanks. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 9:18 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Shamil... you are correct in all that. This friend who is strongly recommending Eiffel is planning on leaving his current job soon and as his wife now has an excellent job at the college and he has decided to go freelance. He wants to work with me on projects and is planning on buying a full licensed version.... To make a short story long I may be becoming an Eiffel guru whether I want to or not. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 11:48 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB <<< I was unaware of the product cost.... >>> Hi Jim. Yes, I have just checked the price - it looks unaffordable for small-/middle-size businesses. Yes, there is evaluation version but... I'd currently think that ASP.NET and C#/VB.NET(VS Express) + MS SQL 2005 Express/Access backend DB is the best ever available toolset for Web (and whatever else) real life business applications development... And they are free for download and use, aren't they?... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:46 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I do not usually answer my own emails but... I must qualify my last comments as I was unaware of the product cost which had me fumbling for my oxygen mask as soon as I saw it. Fortunately there are evaluation copies available. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:12 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering that its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the speed of any .Net flavour. A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not impressed with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was required to write extensive notes in the code. His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ Jim <<< tail of the message trimmed to preserve some cyberspace >>> _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at users.mns.ru Thu Oct 25 14:44:40 2007 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 23:44:40 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Using the ASP.NET 2.0 membership, roles etc. providers in .NET console and WinForms applicatons... Message-ID: <000001c8173f$7c0db230$6401a8c0@nant> Hi All, Did anybody use the subject feature? If not here is the good news: <<< Using the ASP.NET membership provider in a Windows forms application http://www.theproblemsolver.nl/usingthemembershipproviderinwinforms.htm >>> But even better news is that one can use section in app.config file to define ASP.NET membership, roles (etc.? I did test the first tow only because I need them currently) providers by thus having a centralized (MS SQL) store to keep applications' membership, roles etc. "standard asp.net way" and to use them in all .NET based not only asp.net applications... I didn't find any article describing this useful feature - did you? Thanks. -- Shamil From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Oct 25 15:32:20 2007 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 13:32:20 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Gustav: As promised here is a reply from my friend: Hi, Jim: The ISE Eiffel website is www.eiffel.com. Note that they now have a dual licensing model for EiffelStudio (the stand-alone workbench), so one can use it free for open source software. There is Eiffel for ASP.net which is *free* - we need to check this out! There is also a .net plugin for Visual Studio (EiffelEnvision) that is not too pricey ($US 1799). Why would we be interested in this beast? - The enterprise versions include visual round-trip engineering tools - The language is very high level, so you can get a lot of mileage with very little code - It works with .net and stand-alone on several platforms - It has design-by-contract, which really helps to reduce bugs - It has simple and powerful multiple inheritance and genericity (none of the "interface" crap that passes for o-o in most other languages) - It has delayed calls (aka "closures") - It has a powerful reflection api - It is really easy to learn because it is so straightforward and logical - It has built-in doc that blows away the competition After coding in Java for a year, I am more than ready to jump ship to Eiffel myself! I would recommend also checking out Gnu SmartEiffel - see http://smarteiffel.loria.fr/index.html Another good link: www.eiffelroom.com It has articles, blogs etc on eiffel. Here is an article from there that helps to show its amazing power: http://www.eiffelroom.com/article/fun_with_generics Best regards, Yigal Hope you find this useful. If you need further details that is also easy to provide. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 10:45 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Hi Gustav: I am not qualified to give comment of the Eiffel product myself as all my knowledge is second hand but I have passed your query on to my friend and when he responds I will post his email here. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 10:18 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Hi Jim Interesting. Perhaps your friend could tell us briefly about the highlights of Eiffel? Why is it worth the money? /gustav >>> accessd at shaw.ca 25-10-2007 19:18 >>> Shamil... you are correct in all that. This friend who is strongly recommending Eiffel is planning on leaving his current job soon and as his wife now has an excellent job at the college and he has decided to go freelance. He wants to work with me on projects and is planning on buying a full licensed version.... To make a short story long I may be becoming an Eiffel guru whether I want to or not. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 11:48 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB <<< I was unaware of the product cost.... >>> Hi Jim. Yes, I have just checked the price - it looks unaffordable for small-/middle-size businesses. Yes, there is evaluation version but... I'd currently think that ASP.NET and C#/VB.NET(VS Express) + MS SQL 2005 Express/Access backend DB is the best ever available toolset for Web (and whatever else) real life business applications development... And they are free for download and use, aren't they?... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:46 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I do not usually answer my own emails but... I must qualify my last comments as I was unaware of the product cost which had me fumbling for my oxygen mask as soon as I saw it. Fortunately there are evaluation copies available. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:12 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering that its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the speed of any .Net flavour. A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not impressed with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was required to write extensive notes in the code. His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ Jim _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Oct 25 15:47:20 2007 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 13:47:20 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Using the ASP.NET 2.0 membership, roles etc. providers in .NET console and WinForms applicatons... In-Reply-To: <000001c8173f$7c0db230$6401a8c0@nant> Message-ID: Thanks Shamil for that piece of information. I was planning for it but sure where to look. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 12:45 PM To: 'Access-D - VB' Subject: [dba-VB] Using the ASP.NET 2.0 membership,roles etc. providers in .NET console and WinForms applicatons... Hi All, Did anybody use the subject feature? If not here is the good news: <<< Using the ASP.NET membership provider in a Windows forms application http://www.theproblemsolver.nl/usingthemembershipproviderinwinforms.htm >>> But even better news is that one can use section in app.config file to define ASP.NET membership, roles (etc.? I did test the first tow only because I need them currently) providers by thus having a centralized (MS SQL) store to keep applications' membership, roles etc. "standard asp.net way" and to use them in all .NET based not only asp.net applications... I didn't find any article describing this useful feature - did you? Thanks. -- Shamil _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From robert at webedb.com Thu Oct 25 15:53:56 2007 From: robert at webedb.com (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 15:53:56 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] Using the ASP.NET 2.0 membership, roles etc. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200710252056.l9PKuphV029092@databaseadvisors.com> The roles/membership stuff is currently available only in ASP.net pages. But, in VS 2008, it will also be available in WinForm/Smart Client applications. Robert At 03:42 PM 10/25/2007, you wrote: >Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 23:44:40 +0400 >From: "Shamil Salakhetdinov" >Subject: [dba-VB] Using the ASP.NET 2.0 membership, roles etc. > providers in .NET console and WinForms applicatons... >To: "'Access-D - VB'" >Message-ID: <000001c8173f$7c0db230$6401a8c0 at nant> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > >Hi All, > >Did anybody use the subject feature? > >If not here is the good news: > ><<< >Using the ASP.NET membership provider in a Windows forms application >http://www.theproblemsolver.nl/usingthemembershipproviderinwinforms.htm > >>> > >But even better news is that one can use section in app.config >file to define ASP.NET membership, roles (etc.? I did test the first tow >only because I need them currently) providers by thus having a centralized >(MS SQL) store to keep applications' membership, roles etc. "standard >asp.net way" and to use them in all .NET based not only asp.net >applications... > >I didn't find any article describing this useful feature - did you? > >Thanks. > >-- From shamil at users.mns.ru Thu Oct 25 16:21:53 2007 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 01:21:53 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Using the ASP.NET 2.0 membership, roles etc. In-Reply-To: <200710252056.l9PKuphV029092@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <000101c8174d$1066c3b0$6401a8c0@nant> Hi Robert, The below test C# code seems to work well in VS2005 console application with app.config defining system.web section with membership and role providers referring MS SQL database defined in connectionStrings section: //+ user public class TestRolesAndUsersInConsoleApp { public static void Test() { try { //' Creating a new user string userName = "user1"; string userName2 = "user2"; string password = "test"; string email = "test at mail.ru"; string passwordQuestion = "Password question"; string passwordQuestionAnswer = "test"; string roleName = "Developers"; System.Web.Security.MembershipUser user = null; MembershipCreateStatus status; if (System.Web.Security.Membership.ValidateUser(userName, password)) { System.Web.Security.Membership.DeleteUser(userName, true); Console.WriteLine("User " + userName + " - deleted."); } if (System.Web.Security.Membership.ValidateUser(userName2, password)) { System.Web.Security.Membership.DeleteUser(userName2, true); Console.WriteLine("User " + userName2 + " - deleted."); } if (System.Web.Security.Roles.RoleExists(roleName)) { System.Web.Security.Roles.DeleteRole(roleName); Console.WriteLine("Role " + roleName + " - deleted."); } user = System.Web.Security.Membership.CreateUser(userName, password, email, passwordQuestion, passwordQuestionAnswer, true, out status); if (status == MembershipCreateStatus.Success) { int aa = 1; } //' Validate a username/passworduserName if (System.Web.Security.Membership.ValidateUser(userName, password)) Console.WriteLine(userName + " - User validated. " + status.ToString() ); else Console.WriteLine(userName + " - User invalid! "); //' Create a new Developer role. //' Add the to the app.config for this to work if (!System.Web.Security.Roles.RoleExists(roleName)) { System.Web.Security.Roles.CreateRole(roleName); } //' Add a new role to a known user. if (!System.Web.Security.Roles.IsUserInRole(userName, roleName)) { System.Web.Security.Roles.AddUserToRole(userName, roleName); } if (!System.Web.Security.Roles.IsUserInRole(userName, roleName)) { Console.WriteLine(userName + " added to role " + roleName); System.Web.Security.Roles.AddUserToRole(userName, roleName); } //' Create a second user with only username/password //' Add the element to the app.config first user = System.Web.Security.Membership.GetUser(userName2); if (user == null) { user = System.Web.Security.Membership.CreateUser(userName2, password); System.Web.Security.Roles.AddUserToRole(userName2, roleName); Console.WriteLine("Created user: " + user.UserName); } //' Set the current application principal information to a known user System.Security.Principal.GenericIdentity identity; RolePrincipal principal; user = System.Web.Security.Membership.GetUser(userName); identity = new System.Security.Principal.GenericIdentity(user.UserName); principal = new System.Web.Security.RolePrincipal(identity); System.Threading.Thread.CurrentPrincipal = principal; //' Check if the current principal is in a specific role Console.Write(System.Threading.Thread.CurrentPrincipal.Identity.Name); if (System.Web.Security.Roles.IsUserInRole(roleName)) Console.WriteLine(" Is a developer."); else Console.WriteLine(" Doesn't write code."); //' Set the current application principal information to another known user user = System.Web.Security.Membership.GetUser(userName2); identity = new GenericIdentity(user.UserName); principal = new RolePrincipal(identity); System.Threading.Thread.CurrentPrincipal = principal; //' Use the principal to check for role information Console.Write(System.Threading.Thread.CurrentPrincipal.Identity.Name); if (System.Threading.Thread.CurrentPrincipal.IsInRole(roleName)) Console.WriteLine(" is a developer."); else Console.WriteLine(" doesn't write code."); //+ delete if (System.Web.Security.Membership.ValidateUser(userName, password)) { System.Web.Security.Membership.DeleteUser(userName, true); Console.WriteLine("User " + userName + " - deleted."); } if (System.Web.Security.Membership.ValidateUser(userName2, password)) { System.Web.Security.Membership.DeleteUser(userName2, true); Console.WriteLine("User " + userName2 + " - deleted."); } if (System.Web.Security.Roles.RoleExists(roleName)) { System.Web.Security.Roles.DeleteRole(roleName); Console.WriteLine("Role " + roleName + " - deleted."); } //- delete Console.ReadLine(); } catch (Exception ex) { Console.WriteLine(ex.Message); } } } //- user -- Shamil P.S. app.config for console app's test class above looks like that (watch line wraps): -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Stewart Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 12:54 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Using the ASP.NET 2.0 membership, roles etc. The roles/membership stuff is currently available only in ASP.net pages. But, in VS 2008, it will also be available in WinForm/Smart Client applications. Robert <<< tail skipped >>> From shamil at users.mns.ru Thu Oct 25 16:56:44 2007 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 01:56:44 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000501c81751$ef7d3850$6401a8c0@nant> <<< - It has delayed calls (aka "closures") >>> Hi Jim, What are these "delayed calls"? - I'm wondering what real projects development tasks they help to solve effectively? I'm nor arguing with you and your friend nor am I trying to start a discussion C# vs. Eiffel - I'm just wondering what are these attractive Eiffel features your friend mentioned, which I'm unaware about, how useful they are in business applications development and how can one simulate them by using e.g. C# or C++/CLI.... "Multiple inheritance" and genericity - well, C# doesn't have multiple inheritance but C# has Generics - aren't they enough for most of the real business tasks programming? If not - then for rhat kind of tasks one can use C++/CLI with all its power of multiple inheritance and C++ templates etc. ? (C++/CLI is not free but it's available in e.g. MS Empower program package, which is not that expensive...) I'd think that "design-by-contract" will not help to reduce that much the bugs without good (unit) test coverage but when good test coverage exists what is the use of "design-by-contract"? "built-in doc that blows away the competition" - what is that? "visual round-trip engineering tools" - what are that? Forward-/reverse-engineering for UML(?) object diagrams... <<< Here is an article from there that helps to show its amazing power: http://www.eiffelroom.com/article/fun_with_generics >>> Jim, C# has Generics with static casting, when one will want to do something more tricky they can well generate and compile and bind C# code and classes and objects instances on-the-fly... ...but IMO this referred article titled "Fun with Generics" doesn't give any real life applications samples where dynamic Generics casting existing in Eiffel (and lacking in C# and Java) - where this dynamic Generics casting is really needed? Does your friend have such samples, which can be looked through? ... Thanks. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 12:32 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Hi Gustav: As promised here is a reply from my friend: Hi, Jim: The ISE Eiffel website is www.eiffel.com. Note that they now have a dual licensing model for EiffelStudio (the stand-alone workbench), so one can use it free for open source software. There is Eiffel for ASP.net which is *free* - we need to check this out! There is also a .net plugin for Visual Studio (EiffelEnvision) that is not too pricey ($US 1799). Why would we be interested in this beast? - The enterprise versions include visual round-trip engineering tools - The language is very high level, so you can get a lot of mileage with very little code - It works with .net and stand-alone on several platforms - It has design-by-contract, which really helps to reduce bugs - It has simple and powerful multiple inheritance and genericity (none of the "interface" crap that passes for o-o in most other languages) - It has delayed calls (aka "closures") - It has a powerful reflection api - It is really easy to learn because it is so straightforward and logical - It has built-in doc that blows away the competition After coding in Java for a year, I am more than ready to jump ship to Eiffel myself! I would recommend also checking out Gnu SmartEiffel - see http://smarteiffel.loria.fr/index.html Another good link: www.eiffelroom.com It has articles, blogs etc on eiffel. Here is an article from there that helps to show its amazing power: http://www.eiffelroom.com/article/fun_with_generics Best regards, Yigal Hope you find this useful. If you need further details that is also easy to provide. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 10:45 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Hi Gustav: I am not qualified to give comment of the Eiffel product myself as all my knowledge is second hand but I have passed your query on to my friend and when he responds I will post his email here. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 10:18 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Hi Jim Interesting. Perhaps your friend could tell us briefly about the highlights of Eiffel? Why is it worth the money? /gustav >>> accessd at shaw.ca 25-10-2007 19:18 >>> Shamil... you are correct in all that. This friend who is strongly recommending Eiffel is planning on leaving his current job soon and as his wife now has an excellent job at the college and he has decided to go freelance. He wants to work with me on projects and is planning on buying a full licensed version.... To make a short story long I may be becoming an Eiffel guru whether I want to or not. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 11:48 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB <<< I was unaware of the product cost.... >>> Hi Jim. Yes, I have just checked the price - it looks unaffordable for small-/middle-size businesses. Yes, there is evaluation version but... I'd currently think that ASP.NET and C#/VB.NET(VS Express) + MS SQL 2005 Express/Access backend DB is the best ever available toolset for Web (and whatever else) real life business applications development... And they are free for download and use, aren't they?... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:46 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I do not usually answer my own emails but... I must qualify my last comments as I was unaware of the product cost which had me fumbling for my oxygen mask as soon as I saw it. Fortunately there are evaluation copies available. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:12 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering that its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the speed of any .Net flavour. A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not impressed with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was required to write extensive notes in the code. His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ Jim _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Oct 26 00:28:54 2007 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 22:28:54 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: <000501c81751$ef7d3850$6401a8c0@nant> Message-ID: <3AFD7B393DB846058FE4CB0DD02A02F4@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Shamil: Comments and replies from my friend and myself are provided inline. >What are these "delayed calls"? - I'm wondering what real projects >development tasks they help to solve effectively? C# 2.0 has these - they are called "anonymous delegates". Most modern languages now have them in one form or another. I recommend googling for "closures in " and just reading about them... (My comment: it is like an enhanced call-back.) >I'm not arguing with you and your friend nor am I trying to start a >discussion C# vs. Eiffel - I'm just wondering what are these attractive >Eiffel features your friend mentioned, which I'm unaware about, how useful >they are in business applications development and how can one simulate them >by using e.g. C# or C++/CLI.... Let's face it - anything you can do in Eiffel can also be done effectively in just about any current language. For me, it comes down to one simple thing: Eiffel provides a more direct path from the concept to the implementation. Take a look at www.eiffel.com and check out the various blurbs and then download the free version and try it out ;0) >"Multiple inheritance" and genericity - well, C# doesn't have multiple >inheritance but C# has Generics - aren't they enough for most of the real >business tasks programming? If not - then for that kind of tasks one can >use C++/CLI with all its power of multiple inheritance and C++ templates >etc. ? >(C++/CLI is not free but it's available in e.g. MS Empower program package, >which is not that expensive...) >I'd think that "design-by-contract" will not help to reduce that much the >bugs without good (unit) test coverage but when good test coverage exists >what is the use of "design-by-contract"? I hear a lot of talk about contracts in the Java community, but the language offers almost zero support for it. Contracts can change the way you think about the code, and are especially useful for doing incremental development. >"built-in doc that blows away the competition" - what is that? For instance, there is the "flat" view of a class, that shows *all* the attributes and methods in one place; each is annotated with the class from which it was inherited. Contrast that with the more common doc, where you have to go on a treasure hunt to figure out all the methods etc, and what was inherited from where. >"visual round-trip engineering tools" - what are that? Again, similar stuff exists for other languages. Eiffel has a tool that lets you diagram your system and then it will build the skeleton for you. Conversely, you can create the diagram from existing code; hence "round-trip". >Forward-/reverse-engineering for UML(?) object diagrams... Not sure what UML <--> Eiffel tools exist.. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 2:57 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB <<< - It has delayed calls (aka "closures") >>> Hi Jim, What are these "delayed calls"? - I'm wondering what real projects development tasks they help to solve effectively? I'm nor arguing with you and your friend nor am I trying to start a discussion C# vs. Eiffel - I'm just wondering what are these attractive Eiffel features your friend mentioned, which I'm unaware about, how useful they are in business applications development and how can one simulate them by using e.g. C# or C++/CLI.... "Multiple inheritance" and genericity - well, C# doesn't have multiple inheritance but C# has Generics - aren't they enough for most of the real business tasks programming? If not - then for rhat kind of tasks one can use C++/CLI with all its power of multiple inheritance and C++ templates etc. ? (C++/CLI is not free but it's available in e.g. MS Empower program package, which is not that expensive...) I'd think that "design-by-contract" will not help to reduce that much the bugs without good (unit) test coverage but when good test coverage exists what is the use of "design-by-contract"? "built-in doc that blows away the competition" - what is that? "visual round-trip engineering tools" - what are that? Forward-/reverse-engineering for UML(?) object diagrams... <<< Here is an article from there that helps to show its amazing power: http://www.eiffelroom.com/article/fun_with_generics >>> Jim, C# has Generics with static casting, when one will want to do something more tricky they can well generate and compile and bind C# code and classes and objects instances on-the-fly... ...but IMO this referred article titled "Fun with Generics" doesn't give any real life applications samples where dynamic Generics casting existing in Eiffel (and lacking in C# and Java) - where this dynamic Generics casting is really needed? Does your friend have such samples, which can be looked through? ... Thanks. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 12:32 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Hi Gustav: As promised here is a reply from my friend: Hi, Jim: The ISE Eiffel website is www.eiffel.com. Note that they now have a dual licensing model for EiffelStudio (the stand-alone workbench), so one can use it free for open source software. There is Eiffel for ASP.net which is *free* - we need to check this out! There is also a .net plugin for Visual Studio (EiffelEnvision) that is not too pricey ($US 1799). Why would we be interested in this beast? - The enterprise versions include visual round-trip engineering tools - The language is very high level, so you can get a lot of mileage with very little code - It works with .net and stand-alone on several platforms - It has design-by-contract, which really helps to reduce bugs - It has simple and powerful multiple inheritance and genericity (none of the "interface" crap that passes for o-o in most other languages) - It has delayed calls (aka "closures") - It has a powerful reflection api - It is really easy to learn because it is so straightforward and logical - It has built-in doc that blows away the competition After coding in Java for a year, I am more than ready to jump ship to Eiffel myself! I would recommend also checking out Gnu SmartEiffel - see http://smarteiffel.loria.fr/index.html Another good link: www.eiffelroom.com It has articles, blogs etc on eiffel. Here is an article from there that helps to show its amazing power: http://www.eiffelroom.com/article/fun_with_generics Best regards, Yigal Hope you find this useful. If you need further details that is also easy to provide. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 10:45 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Hi Gustav: I am not qualified to give comment of the Eiffel product myself as all my knowledge is second hand but I have passed your query on to my friend and when he responds I will post his email here. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 10:18 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Hi Jim Interesting. Perhaps your friend could tell us briefly about the highlights of Eiffel? Why is it worth the money? /gustav >>> accessd at shaw.ca 25-10-2007 19:18 >>> Shamil... you are correct in all that. This friend who is strongly recommending Eiffel is planning on leaving his current job soon and as his wife now has an excellent job at the college and he has decided to go freelance. He wants to work with me on projects and is planning on buying a full licensed version.... To make a short story long I may be becoming an Eiffel guru whether I want to or not. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 11:48 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB <<< I was unaware of the product cost.... >>> Hi Jim. Yes, I have just checked the price - it looks unaffordable for small-/middle-size businesses. Yes, there is evaluation version but... I'd currently think that ASP.NET and C#/VB.NET(VS Express) + MS SQL 2005 Express/Access backend DB is the best ever available toolset for Web (and whatever else) real life business applications development... And they are free for download and use, aren't they?... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:46 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I do not usually answer my own emails but... I must qualify my last comments as I was unaware of the product cost which had me fumbling for my oxygen mask as soon as I saw it. Fortunately there are evaluation copies available. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:12 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering that its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the speed of any .Net flavour. A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not impressed with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was required to write extensive notes in the code. His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ Jim _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at users.mns.ru Fri Oct 26 03:19:42 2007 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 12:19:42 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: <3AFD7B393DB846058FE4CB0DD02A02F4@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <000101c817a8$f5f9c2f0$6401a8c0@nant> Hello Jim, Thank you for your clarifications! <<< C# 2.0 has these - they are called "anonymous delegates". >>> OK, I'm using them in C# - I didn't know they are also called "delayed calls"... <<< Let's face it - anything you can do in Eiffel can also be done effectively in just about any current language. >>> Yes. <<< For me, it comes down to one simple thing: Eiffel provides a more direct path from the concept to the implementation. >>> OK. This is what is called "Design By Contract"? ====================================================================== http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design_by_contract If the invariant AND precondition are true before using the service, then the invariant AND the postcondition will be true after the service has been completed. ====================================================================== <<< Take a look at www.eiffel.com and check out the various blurbs and then download the free version and try it out ;0) >>> Thanks. I might do that but the next year only probably - hopefully I will have some time to play with Eiffel by that time.... <<< I hear a lot of talk about contracts in the Java community, but the language offers almost zero support for it. Contracts can change the way you think about the code, and are especially useful for doing incremental development. >>> OK. For C#/VB.NET such "contracts" is what agile Test Driven Development(TDD)/Domain Driven Developpment (DDD) or its modern variation Behaviour Driven Development (http://behaviour-driven.org/ ) propose to use for incremental development with latter renamed to Feeedback Driven Development by thus highlighting the fact the (next) increment is implemented based on customers' feedback... (We do that in MS Access all the times don't we? (just a rhetoric remark :) ) <<< Again, similar stuff exists for other languages. Eiffel has a tool that lets you diagram your system and then it will build the skeleton for you. Conversely, you can create the diagram from existing code; hence "round-trip". >>> OK. The more I'm being in software development the more I feel that all kind of diagramming could be helpful but only when implemented software architecture is clean - and the latter usually mainly depends on developers' experience - diagramming/CASE tools are very often helpless here to improve the software quality... Just my experience of course... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 9:29 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Hi Shamil: Comments and replies from my friend and myself are provided inline. >What are these "delayed calls"? - I'm wondering what real projects >development tasks they help to solve effectively? C# 2.0 has these - they are called "anonymous delegates". Most modern languages now have them in one form or another. I recommend googling for "closures in " and just reading about them... (My comment: it is like an enhanced call-back.) >I'm not arguing with you and your friend nor am I trying to start a >discussion C# vs. Eiffel - I'm just wondering what are these attractive >Eiffel features your friend mentioned, which I'm unaware about, how useful >they are in business applications development and how can one simulate them >by using e.g. C# or C++/CLI.... Let's face it - anything you can do in Eiffel can also be done effectively in just about any current language. For me, it comes down to one simple thing: Eiffel provides a more direct path from the concept to the implementation. Take a look at www.eiffel.com and check out the various blurbs and then download the free version and try it out ;0) >"Multiple inheritance" and genericity - well, C# doesn't have multiple >inheritance but C# has Generics - aren't they enough for most of the real >business tasks programming? If not - then for that kind of tasks one can >use C++/CLI with all its power of multiple inheritance and C++ templates >etc. ? >(C++/CLI is not free but it's available in e.g. MS Empower program package, >which is not that expensive...) >I'd think that "design-by-contract" will not help to reduce that much the >bugs without good (unit) test coverage but when good test coverage exists >what is the use of "design-by-contract"? I hear a lot of talk about contracts in the Java community, but the language offers almost zero support for it. Contracts can change the way you think about the code, and are especially useful for doing incremental development. >"built-in doc that blows away the competition" - what is that? For instance, there is the "flat" view of a class, that shows *all* the attributes and methods in one place; each is annotated with the class from which it was inherited. Contrast that with the more common doc, where you have to go on a treasure hunt to figure out all the methods etc, and what was inherited from where. >"visual round-trip engineering tools" - what are that? Again, similar stuff exists for other languages. Eiffel has a tool that lets you diagram your system and then it will build the skeleton for you. Conversely, you can create the diagram from existing code; hence "round-trip". >Forward-/reverse-engineering for UML(?) object diagrams... Not sure what UML <--> Eiffel tools exist.. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 2:57 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB <<< - It has delayed calls (aka "closures") >>> Hi Jim, What are these "delayed calls"? - I'm wondering what real projects development tasks they help to solve effectively? I'm nor arguing with you and your friend nor am I trying to start a discussion C# vs. Eiffel - I'm just wondering what are these attractive Eiffel features your friend mentioned, which I'm unaware about, how useful they are in business applications development and how can one simulate them by using e.g. C# or C++/CLI.... "Multiple inheritance" and genericity - well, C# doesn't have multiple inheritance but C# has Generics - aren't they enough for most of the real business tasks programming? If not - then for rhat kind of tasks one can use C++/CLI with all its power of multiple inheritance and C++ templates etc. ? (C++/CLI is not free but it's available in e.g. MS Empower program package, which is not that expensive...) I'd think that "design-by-contract" will not help to reduce that much the bugs without good (unit) test coverage but when good test coverage exists what is the use of "design-by-contract"? "built-in doc that blows away the competition" - what is that? "visual round-trip engineering tools" - what are that? Forward-/reverse-engineering for UML(?) object diagrams... <<< Here is an article from there that helps to show its amazing power: http://www.eiffelroom.com/article/fun_with_generics >>> Jim, C# has Generics with static casting, when one will want to do something more tricky they can well generate and compile and bind C# code and classes and objects instances on-the-fly... ...but IMO this referred article titled "Fun with Generics" doesn't give any real life applications samples where dynamic Generics casting existing in Eiffel (and lacking in C# and Java) - where this dynamic Generics casting is really needed? Does your friend have such samples, which can be looked through? ... Thanks. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 12:32 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Hi Gustav: As promised here is a reply from my friend: Hi, Jim: The ISE Eiffel website is www.eiffel.com. Note that they now have a dual licensing model for EiffelStudio (the stand-alone workbench), so one can use it free for open source software. There is Eiffel for ASP.net which is *free* - we need to check this out! There is also a .net plugin for Visual Studio (EiffelEnvision) that is not too pricey ($US 1799). Why would we be interested in this beast? - The enterprise versions include visual round-trip engineering tools - The language is very high level, so you can get a lot of mileage with very little code - It works with .net and stand-alone on several platforms - It has design-by-contract, which really helps to reduce bugs - It has simple and powerful multiple inheritance and genericity (none of the "interface" crap that passes for o-o in most other languages) - It has delayed calls (aka "closures") - It has a powerful reflection api - It is really easy to learn because it is so straightforward and logical - It has built-in doc that blows away the competition After coding in Java for a year, I am more than ready to jump ship to Eiffel myself! I would recommend also checking out Gnu SmartEiffel - see http://smarteiffel.loria.fr/index.html Another good link: www.eiffelroom.com It has articles, blogs etc on eiffel. Here is an article from there that helps to show its amazing power: http://www.eiffelroom.com/article/fun_with_generics Best regards, Yigal Hope you find this useful. If you need further details that is also easy to provide. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 10:45 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Hi Gustav: I am not qualified to give comment of the Eiffel product myself as all my knowledge is second hand but I have passed your query on to my friend and when he responds I will post his email here. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 10:18 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Hi Jim Interesting. Perhaps your friend could tell us briefly about the highlights of Eiffel? Why is it worth the money? /gustav >>> accessd at shaw.ca 25-10-2007 19:18 >>> Shamil... you are correct in all that. This friend who is strongly recommending Eiffel is planning on leaving his current job soon and as his wife now has an excellent job at the college and he has decided to go freelance. He wants to work with me on projects and is planning on buying a full licensed version.... To make a short story long I may be becoming an Eiffel guru whether I want to or not. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 11:48 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB <<< I was unaware of the product cost.... >>> Hi Jim. Yes, I have just checked the price - it looks unaffordable for small-/middle-size businesses. Yes, there is evaluation version but... I'd currently think that ASP.NET and C#/VB.NET(VS Express) + MS SQL 2005 Express/Access backend DB is the best ever available toolset for Web (and whatever else) real life business applications development... And they are free for download and use, aren't they?... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:46 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I do not usually answer my own emails but... I must qualify my last comments as I was unaware of the product cost which had me fumbling for my oxygen mask as soon as I saw it. Fortunately there are evaluation copies available. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:12 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering that its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the speed of any .Net flavour. A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not impressed with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was required to write extensive notes in the code. His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ Jim _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue Oct 30 10:14:28 2007 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 16:14:28 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] VS Printer dialogue error Message-ID: Hi all A VB.Net app is running at a client. The developer is gone and no source code is at hand. One machine can print, the others can't. On those the (localized) error message below is shown when the print dialog should open. Any hints what could be causing this? Could it be a missing file (the parameter), but which? The machines all run WinXP Pro. /gustav ************** Exception text ************** System.ArgumentException: Parameter is invalid. ved System.Drawing.Bitmap..ctor(String filename) ved VRS_v2_0.Print.PrintLabelDBAccess..ctor() ved VRS_v2_0.MainForm.MenuItem1_Click(Object sender, EventArgs e) ved System.Windows.Forms.MenuItem.OnClick(EventArgs e) ved System.Windows.Forms.MenuItem.MenuItemData.Execute() ved System.Windows.Forms.Command.Invoke() ved System.Windows.Forms.Command.DispatchID(Int32 id) ved System.Windows.Forms.Control.WmCommand(Message& m) ved System.Windows.Forms.Control.WndProc(Message& m) ved System.Windows.Forms.ScrollableControl.WndProc(Message& m) ved System.Windows.Forms.ContainerControl.WndProc(Message& m) ved System.Windows.Forms.Form.WndProc(Message& m) ved System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.OnMessage(Message& m) ved System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.WndProc(Message& m) ved System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam) ************** Loaded assemblies ************** mscorlib Assemblyversion: 2.0.0.0 Win32-version: 2.0.50727.832 (QFE.050727-8300) CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/Microsoft.NET/Framework/v2.0.50727/mscorlib.dll ---------------------------------------- VRS_v2.0 Assemblyversion: 1.0.2218.22936 Win32-version: 1.0.2218.22936 CodeBase: file:///C:/Programmer/VRS/VRS_v2.0.exe ---------------------------------------- System.Windows.Forms Assemblyversion: 2.0.0.0 Win32-version: 2.0.50727.832 (QFE.050727-8300) CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Windows.Forms/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Windows.Forms.dll ---------------------------------------- System Assemblyversion: 2.0.0.0 Win32-version: 2.0.50727.832 (QFE.050727-8300) CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.dll ---------------------------------------- System.Drawing Assemblyversion: 2.0.0.0 Win32-version: 2.0.50727.832 (QFE.050727-8300) CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Drawing/2.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Drawing.dll ---------------------------------------- System.Windows.Forms.resources Assemblyversion: 2.0.0.0 Win32-version: 2.0.50727.42 (RTM.050727-4200) CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Windows.Forms.resources/2.0.0.0_da_b77a5c561934e089/System.Windows.Forms.resources.dll ---------------------------------------- System.Data Assemblyversion: 2.0.0.0 Win32-version: 2.0.50727.832 (QFE.050727-8300) CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_32/System.Data/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Data.dll ---------------------------------------- Microsoft.VisualBasic Assemblyversion: 8.0.0.0 Win32-version: 8.0.50727.42 (RTM.050727-4200) CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/Microsoft.VisualBasic/8.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/Microsoft.VisualBasic.dll ---------------------------------------- System.Transactions Assemblyversion: 2.0.0.0 Win32-version: 2.0.50727.832 (QFE.050727-8300) CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_32/System.Transactions/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Transactions.dll ---------------------------------------- System.EnterpriseServices Assemblyversion: 2.0.0.0 Win32-version: 2.0.50727.832 (QFE.050727-8300) CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_32/System.EnterpriseServices/2.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.EnterpriseServices.dll ---------------------------------------- System.Configuration Assemblyversion: 2.0.0.0 Win32-version: 2.0.50727.832 (QFE.050727-8300) CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Configuration/2.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Configuration.dll ---------------------------------------- System.Xml Assemblyversion: 2.0.0.0 Win32-version: 2.0.50727.832 (QFE.050727-8300) CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Xml/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Xml.dll ---------------------------------------- System.Drawing.resources Assemblyversion: 2.0.0.0 Win32-version: 2.0.50727.42 (RTM.050727-4200) CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Drawing.resources/2.0.0.0_da_b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Drawing.resources.dll ---------------------------------------- mscorlib.resources Assemblyversion: 2.0.0.0 Win32-version: 2.0.50727.832 (QFE.050727-8300) CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/Microsoft.NET/Framework/v2.0.50727/mscorlib.dll ---------------------------------------- From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Oct 30 10:23:58 2007 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 08:23:58 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] VS Printer dialogue error In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Just a SWAG, but given the "Parameter is invalid" message, I wonder if the mapping to the printer is different for those client machines. Assuming this is one or more network printers, that is. If the printers are local, no ideas. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 8:14 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] VS Printer dialogue error Hi all A VB.Net app is running at a client. The developer is gone and no source code is at hand. One machine can print, the others can't. On those the (localized) error message below is shown when the print dialog should open. Any hints what could be causing this? Could it be a missing file (the parameter), but which? The machines all run WinXP Pro. /gustav ************** Exception text ************** System.ArgumentException: Parameter is invalid. ved System.Drawing.Bitmap..ctor(String filename) ved VRS_v2_0.Print.PrintLabelDBAccess..ctor() ved VRS_v2_0.MainForm.MenuItem1_Click(Object sender, EventArgs e) ved System.Windows.Forms.MenuItem.OnClick(EventArgs e) ved System.Windows.Forms.MenuItem.MenuItemData.Execute() ved System.Windows.Forms.Command.Invoke() ved System.Windows.Forms.Command.DispatchID(Int32 id) ved System.Windows.Forms.Control.WmCommand(Message& m) ved System.Windows.Forms.Control.WndProc(Message& m) ved System.Windows.Forms.ScrollableControl.WndProc(Message& m) ved System.Windows.Forms.ContainerControl.WndProc(Message& m) ved System.Windows.Forms.Form.WndProc(Message& m) ved System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.OnMessage(Message& m) ved System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.WndProc(Message& m) ved System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam) From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue Oct 30 10:46:49 2007 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 16:46:49 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] VS Printer dialogue error Message-ID: Hi Charlotte I did check that - perhaps the app requested a specific printer to be installed? But you gave me an idea. Suddenly I recalled the fabulous old util from SysInternals: File Monitor for Windows NT/9x v4.34 Once loaded, I ran the app to pop the error and, voila, this line (wrapped here) showed up: 16:30:01 VRS_v2.0.exe:1932 IRP_MJ_CREATE C:\Programmer\VRS\prconnect.bmp FILE NOT FOUND Attributes: Any Options: Open Then I located the bmp file, copied it to the VRS folder and ran the app with no errors! Thanks Charlotte and SysInternals (now bought by the all mighty you know who). /gustav >>> cfoust at infostatsystems.com 30-10-2007 16:23 >>> Just a SWAG, but given the "Parameter is invalid" message, I wonder if the mapping to the printer is different for those client machines. Assuming this is one or more network printers, that is. If the printers are local, no ideas. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 8:14 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] VS Printer dialogue error Hi all A VB.Net app is running at a client. The developer is gone and no source code is at hand. One machine can print, the others can't. On those the (localized) error message below is shown when the print dialog should open. Any hints what could be causing this? Could it be a missing file (the parameter), but which? The machines all run WinXP Pro. /gustav From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Tue Oct 30 16:33:36 2007 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 10:33:36 +1300 Subject: [dba-VB] Web Developer wanted VB Dot Net Message-ID: <20071030213304.JVIJ18083.fep03.xtra.co.nz@Dalyn.dalyn.co.nz> Group, I have an access program that has been converted to a Web site written using Visual Studio 2003 and VB.Net. The conversion was done by another developer as a favour for the company that owns the software. We are now looking for a web developer that can do the following: 1) Continue to maintain the web version. This should be basic maintenance of the screens. The database is SQL2000 and I can maintain this. The reports are developed using DataDynamics Active Report. I can also maintain these. What I can't do is the actual web site maintenance. 2) The company has another project that they want converted from a desk top version to the web. This project would involve interaction with the developer of the desk top version - he is also not familiar with web development. The company that we would be working for is based in Chicago. However, I have been developing for them for over 10 years and I am in NZ. If you are interested in more information please email me off line with a phone number and a suitable time to call (preferably your afternoon if you are in America due to the time difference) Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd Wellington, New Zealand From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Oct 5 09:53:03 2007 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 07:53:03 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Has Data in .Net Message-ID: Here's a routine I came up with to quickly answer the question of whether any data exists in a record, outside of the key fields. We populate a field with a new record if there are none, but we want to throw it away if they don't enter any data. CurrentRow is a function that returns a datarowview of the current record in a single record form using the binding context. Private Function HasData() As Boolean ' Charlotte Foust 03-Oct-07 Dim blnData As Boolean = False Dim intKeys As Integer = 2 Try Dim flds() As Object = Me.CurrentRow.ItemArray ' skip the PK columns, which are filled by default For i As Integer = intKeys To flds.GetLength(0) - 1 If Not IsDBNull(flds(i)) Then blnData = True Exit For End If Next Catch ex As Exception UIExceptionHandler.ProcessException(ex) End Try Return blnData End Function This is in a subform module, but it could pretty easily be converted to a public function in a shared class. Charlotte Foust From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Oct 6 08:14:53 2007 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 09:14:53 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] [AccessD] Importing XML into a database In-Reply-To: <000401c807a0$d765e480$6401a8c0@nant> References: <000201c80789$8a873590$657aa8c0@M90> <000401c807a0$d765e480$6401a8c0@nant> Message-ID: <001701c8081a$e2872a20$657aa8c0@M90> Shamil, First of all, thanks for your assistance on this. I am so new to VB.Net that I would never get there on my own, but given example code I can usually adapt it to my needs. OK, here is the adaptation I am trying. The concept is that I create a class which knows how to serialize an object (class). The following function performs that process using XMLSerializer to serialize the current class onto a stream passed in. Public Function mSave(ByVal stream As Stream) As Boolean Dim serializer As New XmlSerializer(Me.GetType) Try serializer.Serialize(stream, Me) Return True Catch ex As Exception Return False End Try End Function Now, here is your code for using a memory stream as you called it. This mSave method uses a connection string and a table name parameter. You set up a memory stream and call the mSave method shown above to serialize the object into that stream. Next your create a data set which reads the xml data back out of the stream, which creates a table in the data set using the xml file element names as field names in the resulting table (very nice). Finally the "Using" block of code writes the data now in the data set out to a table in the database. I left in the two lines of code (commented out the original, then modified in a second copy) where I assume I need to substitute in my passed in table name for your hard coded table names. Public Function mSave(ByVal lcnn As String, ByVal strTblName As String) As Int16 Try ' serialize DataSet data into memory stream ' (use your custom object instance here) Dim myStream As System.IO.Stream = New IO.MemoryStream() mSave(myStream) ' read memory stream's data into dataset Dim ds As New DataSet() myStream.Position = 0 ds.ReadXml(myStream) ' write DataSet's data into database table Using cnn As New OleDbConnection(lcnn) 'Dim cmd As New OleDbCommand("select * from [LogData]") Dim cmd As New OleDbCommand("select * from [" & strTblName & "]") Dim adapter As New OleDbDataAdapter(cmd) Dim builder As New OleDbCommandBuilder(adapter) cnn.Open() cmd.CommandType = CommandType.Text cmd.Connection = cnn 'adapter.Update(ds, "clsLogData") adapter.Update(ds, strTblName ) cnn.Close() End Using Return 0 Catch ex As Exception Console.WriteLine(ex.Message) Return -1 End Try End Function So with these two methods, I build a clsSerializableData. This is inherited by any class that I want to be able to write (and read back in) its data. Assuming this works (I haven't yet tested it) I now can write any class' data to a file on disk (using a different existing mSave overload) or to table (using this new mSave overload). Is overload the right term here? Once I get this functioning I need to go back and generate the matching mLoad() method. I already have one to load the class from an xml disk file. Now I have to build one to load it from an existing table in the database. I will let you know how the testing goes. I am curious what the data types will be for this table. The data types of the class are known to the xmlSerializer but the data type does not show up in the XML file produced from the stream. Is it possible to tell the serializer to include data types in the xml file? Is this part of the XML standard? At any rate, again, thanks a million for your assistance on this Shamil. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 6:41 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing XML into a database Hello John, Yes, I think you can use MemoryStream - here is a sample code (watch line wraps): Imports System.Data Imports System.Data.OleDb Imports System.Xml.Serialization Module TestImportXmlFile Sub Main() Dim rootDir As String = "E:\Temp\XML\" Dim accDbFileName As String = "testXML.mdb" Try Dim accConnection As String = _ "Provider=Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0;Data Source=" + _ rootDir + accDbFileName ' simulate custom object instance by ' using DataSet instance, which data ' is loaded from external XMl file Dim xmlFileFullPath As String = rootDir + "clsLogData.xml" Dim textImportStream As System.IO.StreamReader = _ New IO.StreamReader(xmlFileFullPath) Dim dsObjectSimulator As New DataSet() dsObjectSimulator.ReadXml(textImportStream, _ XmlReadMode.InferSchema) ' serialize DataSet data into memory stream ' (use your custom object instance here) Dim myStream As System.IO.Stream = New IO.MemoryStream() mSave(myStream, dsObjectSimulator) ' read memory stream's data into dataset Dim ds As New DataSet() myStream.Position = 0 ds.ReadXml(myStream) ' write DataSet's data into database table Using cnn As New OleDbConnection(accConnection) Dim cmd As New OleDbCommand("select * from [LogData]") Dim adapter As New OleDbDataAdapter(cmd) Dim builder As New OleDbCommandBuilder(adapter) cnn.Open() cmd.CommandType = CommandType.Text cmd.Connection = cnn adapter.Update(ds, "clsLogData") cnn.Close() End Using Catch ex As Exception Console.WriteLine(ex.Message) End Try End Sub 'Public Function mSave(ByVal stream As IO.Stream, ByVal t As Type) As Boolean Public Function mSave(ByVal stream As IO.Stream, ByVal t As Object) As Boolean Dim serializer As New XmlSerializer(t.GetType()) Try serializer.Serialize(stream, t) Return True Catch ex As Exception Return False End Try End Function End Module -- Shamil From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Oct 8 07:07:44 2007 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 08:07:44 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - ADO - add table to SQL Server Message-ID: <002a01c809a3$d5f76a60$657aa8c0@M90> Does ADO have methods to cause a table built up the dataset to be saved to SQL Server if the table is not already in SQL Server? I am reading XML into a dataset, but the table created does not already exist in SQL Server. I need to cause the table to be written to a specified database in SQL Server. Is this possible? I have been googling around but am finding nothing like this. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com From bheid at sc.rr.com Mon Oct 8 21:16:41 2007 From: bheid at sc.rr.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 22:16:41 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - ADO - add table to SQL Server In-Reply-To: <002a01c809a3$d5f76a60$657aa8c0@M90> References: <002a01c809a3$d5f76a60$657aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: <008901c80a1a$6e744440$4b5cccc0$@rr.com> John, Yes it is easy. Look up "Create Table". Create Table ref: http://www.codeproject.com/useritems/adodotnetprogrammatically.asp Example: http://www.codeproject.com/useritems/adodotnetprogrammatically.asp Bobby -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 8:08 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - ADO - add table to SQL Server Does ADO have methods to cause a table built up the dataset to be saved to SQL Server if the table is not already in SQL Server? I am reading XML into a dataset, but the table created does not already exist in SQL Server. I need to cause the table to be written to a specified database in SQL Server. Is this possible? I have been googling around but am finding nothing like this. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Oct 9 07:15:07 2007 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 08:15:07 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects Message-ID: <002a01c80a6e$089964d0$657aa8c0@M90> I am developing modules that I need to use in various projects. This includes things like a status form with specific controls and code to display status updates from operations, and base classes for making another class serializable. Stuff like that. I need to know what the process is for making such objects accessible to other projects such that as I add capabilities and fix bugs, such enhancements are available to all the other projects that use these things. IOW, something similar to an MDA in Access. I know that it is possible, I just do not understand the mechanics of referencing the common objects. Could someone give me a detailed "step by step" of how to do it, what to click, select this menu item, click this etc. from inside of the referencing project. Or alternately a web article that discusses this stuff. TIA, John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Oct 9 07:35:12 2007 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 08:35:12 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects In-Reply-To: <002a01c80a6e$089964d0$657aa8c0@M90> References: <002a01c80a6e$089964d0$657aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: <002b01c80a70$d671b450$657aa8c0@M90> Guys, Once I discovered the correct keywords I started finding web articles on this stuff. Any words of wisdom you guys might have is still much appreciated. Thanks, John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 8:15 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects I am developing modules that I need to use in various projects. This includes things like a status form with specific controls and code to display status updates from operations, and base classes for making another class serializable. Stuff like that. I need to know what the process is for making such objects accessible to other projects such that as I add capabilities and fix bugs, such enhancements are available to all the other projects that use these things. IOW, something similar to an MDA in Access. I know that it is possible, I just do not understand the mechanics of referencing the common objects. Could someone give me a detailed "step by step" of how to do it, what to click, select this menu item, click this etc. from inside of the referencing project. Or alternately a web article that discusses this stuff. TIA, John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue Oct 9 07:38:50 2007 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2007 14:38:50 +0200 Subject: [dba-VB] Amazon Mechanical Turk SDK for .NET Message-ID: Hi all If you are experimenting with web services, Amazon is a good place to visit. Now an open-source SDK for .Net is available: http://developer.amazonwebservices.com/connect/entry.jspa?externalID=923 /gustav From mikedorism at verizon.net Tue Oct 9 09:51:25 2007 From: mikedorism at verizon.net (Doris Manning) Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2007 10:51:25 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects In-Reply-To: <002a01c80a6e$089964d0$657aa8c0@M90> References: <002a01c80a6e$089964d0$657aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: <000601c80a83$de71e9a0$2f01a8c0@Kermit> John, When you add an existing item to a project and press the OPEN button, you are actually importing the module from its existing location into the project location. If you click on the small black arrow on the far right of the OPEN button, you have a "Link file" choice. Choosing this option adds the module to your project but keeps it in its existing location. Any projects that link to it will instantly inherit the changes but will need to be rebuilt so the executable picks up the changes. Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 8:15 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects I am developing modules that I need to use in various projects. This includes things like a status form with specific controls and code to display status updates from operations, and base classes for making another class serializable. Stuff like that. I need to know what the process is for making such objects accessible to other projects such that as I add capabilities and fix bugs, such enhancements are available to all the other projects that use these things. IOW, something similar to an MDA in Access. I know that it is possible, I just do not understand the mechanics of referencing the common objects. Could someone give me a detailed "step by step" of how to do it, what to click, select this menu item, click this etc. from inside of the referencing project. Or alternately a web article that discusses this stuff. TIA, John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Oct 10 08:19:33 2007 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 09:19:33 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects In-Reply-To: <000601c80a83$de71e9a0$2f01a8c0@Kermit> References: <002a01c80a6e$089964d0$657aa8c0@M90> <000601c80a83$de71e9a0$2f01a8c0@Kermit> Message-ID: <009301c80b40$3321e150$657aa8c0@M90> Thanks Doris, I will give that a try. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doris Manning Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 10:51 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects John, When you add an existing item to a project and press the OPEN button, you are actually importing the module from its existing location into the project location. If you click on the small black arrow on the far right of the OPEN button, you have a "Link file" choice. Choosing this option adds the module to your project but keeps it in its existing location. Any projects that link to it will instantly inherit the changes but will need to be rebuilt so the executable picks up the changes. Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 8:15 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects I am developing modules that I need to use in various projects. This includes things like a status form with specific controls and code to display status updates from operations, and base classes for making another class serializable. Stuff like that. I need to know what the process is for making such objects accessible to other projects such that as I add capabilities and fix bugs, such enhancements are available to all the other projects that use these things. IOW, something similar to an MDA in Access. I know that it is possible, I just do not understand the mechanics of referencing the common objects. Could someone give me a detailed "step by step" of how to do it, what to click, select this menu item, click this etc. from inside of the referencing project. Or alternately a web article that discusses this stuff. TIA, John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ebarro at verizon.net Wed Oct 10 12:47:09 2007 From: ebarro at verizon.net (Eric Barro) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 10:47:09 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects In-Reply-To: <002b01c80a70$d671b450$657aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: <0JPP00I4NIQIMBZ0@vms044.mailsrvcs.net> John, You can create user-defined controls in .NET that you can load into your projects and even dock into your VS.NET toolbar along with the rest of the built-in controls so that all you have to do is add a reference to the DLL that defines the control and then drag and drop the control into your forms. Eric -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 5:35 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects Guys, Once I discovered the correct keywords I started finding web articles on this stuff. Any words of wisdom you guys might have is still much appreciated. Thanks, John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 8:15 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects I am developing modules that I need to use in various projects. This includes things like a status form with specific controls and code to display status updates from operations, and base classes for making another class serializable. Stuff like that. I need to know what the process is for making such objects accessible to other projects such that as I add capabilities and fix bugs, such enhancements are available to all the other projects that use these things. IOW, something similar to an MDA in Access. I know that it is possible, I just do not understand the mechanics of referencing the common objects. Could someone give me a detailed "step by step" of how to do it, what to click, select this menu item, click this etc. from inside of the referencing project. Or alternately a web article that discusses this stuff. TIA, John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.6/1061 - Release Date: 10/10/2007 8:43 AM From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Oct 11 07:38:45 2007 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 08:38:45 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects In-Reply-To: <000601c80a83$de71e9a0$2f01a8c0@Kermit> References: <002a01c80a6e$089964d0$657aa8c0@M90> <000601c80a83$de71e9a0$2f01a8c0@Kermit> Message-ID: <004701c80c03$aad54d40$657aa8c0@M90> Doris, OK, I finally figured out how to do what you are talking about. It is actually the "ADD" button which threw me for awhile, I kept going back and forth searching diligently for this "OPEN" button. Anyway, that is handled. So if I open a linked file, I am opening the actual source out in the lib and if I edit it, the changes are stored in that module in that lib? This works for me! John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doris Manning Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 10:51 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects John, When you add an existing item to a project and press the OPEN button, you are actually importing the module from its existing location into the project location. If you click on the small black arrow on the far right of the OPEN button, you have a "Link file" choice. Choosing this option adds the module to your project but keeps it in its existing location. Any projects that link to it will instantly inherit the changes but will need to be rebuilt so the executable picks up the changes. Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 8:15 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects I am developing modules that I need to use in various projects. This includes things like a status form with specific controls and code to display status updates from operations, and base classes for making another class serializable. Stuff like that. I need to know what the process is for making such objects accessible to other projects such that as I add capabilities and fix bugs, such enhancements are available to all the other projects that use these things. IOW, something similar to an MDA in Access. I know that it is possible, I just do not understand the mechanics of referencing the common objects. Could someone give me a detailed "step by step" of how to do it, what to click, select this menu item, click this etc. from inside of the referencing project. Or alternately a web article that discusses this stuff. TIA, John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Oct 11 09:57:56 2007 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 07:57:56 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects In-Reply-To: <004701c80c03$aad54d40$657aa8c0@M90> References: <002a01c80a6e$089964d0$657aa8c0@M90><000601c80a83$de71e9a0$2f01a8c0@Kermit> <004701c80c03$aad54d40$657aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: You're talking about two different things. Open is a menu item under the file menu. That's what Doris was referring to, I think. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 5:39 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects Doris, OK, I finally figured out how to do what you are talking about. It is actually the "ADD" button which threw me for awhile, I kept going back and forth searching diligently for this "OPEN" button. Anyway, that is handled. So if I open a linked file, I am opening the actual source out in the lib and if I edit it, the changes are stored in that module in that lib? This works for me! John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doris Manning Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 10:51 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects John, When you add an existing item to a project and press the OPEN button, you are actually importing the module from its existing location into the project location. If you click on the small black arrow on the far right of the OPEN button, you have a "Link file" choice. Choosing this option adds the module to your project but keeps it in its existing location. Any projects that link to it will instantly inherit the changes but will need to be rebuilt so the executable picks up the changes. Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 8:15 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects I am developing modules that I need to use in various projects. This includes things like a status form with specific controls and code to display status updates from operations, and base classes for making another class serializable. Stuff like that. I need to know what the process is for making such objects accessible to other projects such that as I add capabilities and fix bugs, such enhancements are available to all the other projects that use these things. IOW, something similar to an MDA in Access. I know that it is possible, I just do not understand the mechanics of referencing the common objects. Could someone give me a detailed "step by step" of how to do it, what to click, select this menu item, click this etc. from inside of the referencing project. Or alternately a web article that discusses this stuff. TIA, John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Oct 11 11:12:25 2007 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 12:12:25 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects In-Reply-To: References: <002a01c80a6e$089964d0$657aa8c0@M90><000601c80a83$de71e9a0$2f01a8c0@Kermit><004701c80c03$aad54d40$657aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: <005d01c80c21$83d2bf20$657aa8c0@M90> Hmmm... If you "add existing" a file Find dialog opens. At the bottom of THAT is an ADD button which has a little drop down to the right of it. If you drop that down a "LINK option". If you select "LINK" then it adds the module as a link instead of importing it directly into the project. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 10:58 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects You're talking about two different things. Open is a menu item under the file menu. That's what Doris was referring to, I think. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 5:39 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects Doris, OK, I finally figured out how to do what you are talking about. It is actually the "ADD" button which threw me for awhile, I kept going back and forth searching diligently for this "OPEN" button. Anyway, that is handled. So if I open a linked file, I am opening the actual source out in the lib and if I edit it, the changes are stored in that module in that lib? This works for me! John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doris Manning Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 10:51 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects John, When you add an existing item to a project and press the OPEN button, you are actually importing the module from its existing location into the project location. If you click on the small black arrow on the far right of the OPEN button, you have a "Link file" choice. Choosing this option adds the module to your project but keeps it in its existing location. Any projects that link to it will instantly inherit the changes but will need to be rebuilt so the executable picks up the changes. Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 8:15 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects I am developing modules that I need to use in various projects. This includes things like a status form with specific controls and code to display status updates from operations, and base classes for making another class serializable. Stuff like that. I need to know what the process is for making such objects accessible to other projects such that as I add capabilities and fix bugs, such enhancements are available to all the other projects that use these things. IOW, something similar to an MDA in Access. I know that it is possible, I just do not understand the mechanics of referencing the common objects. Could someone give me a detailed "step by step" of how to do it, what to click, select this menu item, click this etc. from inside of the referencing project. Or alternately a web article that discusses this stuff. TIA, John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Oct 11 11:15:40 2007 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 09:15:40 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects In-Reply-To: <005d01c80c21$83d2bf20$657aa8c0@M90> References: <002a01c80a6e$089964d0$657aa8c0@M90><000601c80a83$de71e9a0$2f01a8c0@Kermit><004701c80c03$aad54d40$657aa8c0@M90> <005d01c80c21$83d2bf20$657aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: But I thought you were trying to add your other project to a solution, not just a specific class. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 9:12 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects Hmmm... If you "add existing" a file Find dialog opens. At the bottom of THAT is an ADD button which has a little drop down to the right of it. If you drop that down a "LINK option". If you select "LINK" then it adds the module as a link instead of importing it directly into the project. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 10:58 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects You're talking about two different things. Open is a menu item under the file menu. That's what Doris was referring to, I think. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 5:39 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects Doris, OK, I finally figured out how to do what you are talking about. It is actually the "ADD" button which threw me for awhile, I kept going back and forth searching diligently for this "OPEN" button. Anyway, that is handled. So if I open a linked file, I am opening the actual source out in the lib and if I edit it, the changes are stored in that module in that lib? This works for me! John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doris Manning Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 10:51 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects John, When you add an existing item to a project and press the OPEN button, you are actually importing the module from its existing location into the project location. If you click on the small black arrow on the far right of the OPEN button, you have a "Link file" choice. Choosing this option adds the module to your project but keeps it in its existing location. Any projects that link to it will instantly inherit the changes but will need to be rebuilt so the executable picks up the changes. Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 8:15 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects I am developing modules that I need to use in various projects. This includes things like a status form with specific controls and code to display status updates from operations, and base classes for making another class serializable. Stuff like that. I need to know what the process is for making such objects accessible to other projects such that as I add capabilities and fix bugs, such enhancements are available to all the other projects that use these things. IOW, something similar to an MDA in Access. I know that it is possible, I just do not understand the mechanics of referencing the common objects. Could someone give me a detailed "step by step" of how to do it, what to click, select this menu item, click this etc. from inside of the referencing project. Or alternately a web article that discusses this stuff. TIA, John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Oct 11 11:48:04 2007 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 12:48:04 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects In-Reply-To: References: <002a01c80a6e$089964d0$657aa8c0@M90><000601c80a83$de71e9a0$2f01a8c0@Kermit><004701c80c03$aad54d40$657aa8c0@M90><005d01c80c21$83d2bf20$657aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: <005f01c80c26$7e58d2a0$657aa8c0@M90> Charlotte, This conversation is like trying to discuss a specific switch on the space shuttle. I don't know enough to know what I want to do. I have modules that I am developing or have found out there that I want to use in various projects. I do not want those modules embedded in each project precisely because of maintenance issues. In my terminology that is a library. ATM this is really a "library" of classes / modules that will be shared between projects. Understand that I do not truly understand "project" and "solution". A project is where poor people live and a solution is chemicals mixed in a liquid. Alternatively Project and Solution are terms used by much more advanced .Net programmers used to confuse beginners and establish respective positions in the programming hierarchy. Take it from there. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 12:16 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects But I thought you were trying to add your other project to a solution, not just a specific class. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 9:12 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects Hmmm... If you "add existing" a file Find dialog opens. At the bottom of THAT is an ADD button which has a little drop down to the right of it. If you drop that down a "LINK option". If you select "LINK" then it adds the module as a link instead of importing it directly into the project. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 10:58 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects You're talking about two different things. Open is a menu item under the file menu. That's what Doris was referring to, I think. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 5:39 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects Doris, OK, I finally figured out how to do what you are talking about. It is actually the "ADD" button which threw me for awhile, I kept going back and forth searching diligently for this "OPEN" button. Anyway, that is handled. So if I open a linked file, I am opening the actual source out in the lib and if I edit it, the changes are stored in that module in that lib? This works for me! John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doris Manning Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 10:51 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects John, When you add an existing item to a project and press the OPEN button, you are actually importing the module from its existing location into the project location. If you click on the small black arrow on the far right of the OPEN button, you have a "Link file" choice. Choosing this option adds the module to your project but keeps it in its existing location. Any projects that link to it will instantly inherit the changes but will need to be rebuilt so the executable picks up the changes. Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 8:15 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects I am developing modules that I need to use in various projects. This includes things like a status form with specific controls and code to display status updates from operations, and base classes for making another class serializable. Stuff like that. I need to know what the process is for making such objects accessible to other projects such that as I add capabilities and fix bugs, such enhancements are available to all the other projects that use these things. IOW, something similar to an MDA in Access. I know that it is possible, I just do not understand the mechanics of referencing the common objects. Could someone give me a detailed "step by step" of how to do it, what to click, select this menu item, click this etc. from inside of the referencing project. Or alternately a web article that discusses this stuff. TIA, John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Oct 11 11:56:27 2007 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 18:56:27 +0200 Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects Message-ID: Hi John et al To add to the confusing, I see no "Link" option anywhere; _if_ the Open button has an dropdown arrow juxtaposed, it offers "Open" or "Open with ..." only. /gustav >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 11-10-2007 18:48 >>> Charlotte, This conversation is like trying to discuss a specific switch on the space shuttle. I don't know enough to know what I want to do. I have modules that I am developing or have found out there that I want to use in various projects. I do not want those modules embedded in each project precisely because of maintenance issues. In my terminology that is a library. ATM this is really a "library" of classes / modules that will be shared between projects. Understand that I do not truly understand "project" and "solution". A project is where poor people live and a solution is chemicals mixed in a liquid. Alternatively Project and Solution are terms used by much more advanced .Net programmers used to confuse beginners and establish respective positions in the programming hierarchy. Take it from there. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 12:16 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects But I thought you were trying to add your other project to a solution, not just a specific class. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 9:12 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects Hmmm... If you "add existing" a file Find dialog opens. At the bottom of THAT is an ADD button which has a little drop down to the right of it. If you drop that down a "LINK option". If you select "LINK" then it adds the module as a link instead of importing it directly into the project. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 10:58 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects You're talking about two different things. Open is a menu item under the file menu. That's what Doris was referring to, I think. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 5:39 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects Doris, OK, I finally figured out how to do what you are talking about. It is actually the "ADD" button which threw me for awhile, I kept going back and forth searching diligently for this "OPEN" button. Anyway, that is handled. So if I open a linked file, I am opening the actual source out in the lib and if I edit it, the changes are stored in that module in that lib? This works for me! John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doris Manning Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 10:51 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects John, When you add an existing item to a project and press the OPEN button, you are actually importing the module from its existing location into the project location. If you click on the small black arrow on the far right of the OPEN button, you have a "Link file" choice. Choosing this option adds the module to your project but keeps it in its existing location. Any projects that link to it will instantly inherit the changes but will need to be rebuilt so the executable picks up the changes. Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 8:15 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects I am developing modules that I need to use in various projects. This includes things like a status form with specific controls and code to display status updates from operations, and base classes for making another class serializable. Stuff like that. I need to know what the process is for making such objects accessible to other projects such that as I add capabilities and fix bugs, such enhancements are available to all the other projects that use these things. IOW, something similar to an MDA in Access. I know that it is possible, I just do not understand the mechanics of referencing the common objects. Could someone give me a detailed "step by step" of how to do it, what to click, select this menu item, click this etc. from inside of the referencing project. Or alternately a web article that discusses this stuff. TIA, John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Oct 11 11:56:50 2007 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 09:56:50 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects In-Reply-To: <005f01c80c26$7e58d2a0$657aa8c0@M90> References: <002a01c80a6e$089964d0$657aa8c0@M90><000601c80a83$de71e9a0$2f01a8c0@Kermit><004701c80c03$aad54d40$657aa8c0@M90><005d01c80c21$83d2bf20$657aa8c0@M90> <005f01c80c26$7e58d2a0$657aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: LOL Think of a solution as an application superstructure that contains various projects. It can contain as many projects as you need, and those projects don't have to originate in the solution. One of the projects in the solution is the startup project, the rest are the bits that make it work. We insist that a project have a single focus, i.e., a configuration project, a data project, a UI project, a custom controls project, a reports project, etc., etc. All of those are variously imported into the individual classes in the solution as required. All our winforms and subforms (user controls) live in the UI project, while all our data entities, typed datasets, and defined interfaces live in the data project. Our custom controls project is shared among our applications. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 9:48 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects Charlotte, This conversation is like trying to discuss a specific switch on the space shuttle. I don't know enough to know what I want to do. I have modules that I am developing or have found out there that I want to use in various projects. I do not want those modules embedded in each project precisely because of maintenance issues. In my terminology that is a library. ATM this is really a "library" of classes / modules that will be shared between projects. Understand that I do not truly understand "project" and "solution". A project is where poor people live and a solution is chemicals mixed in a liquid. Alternatively Project and Solution are terms used by much more advanced .Net programmers used to confuse beginners and establish respective positions in the programming hierarchy. Take it from there. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 12:16 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects But I thought you were trying to add your other project to a solution, not just a specific class. Charlotte Foust From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Oct 11 12:11:35 2007 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 10:11:35 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: When you add Existing Item, the add dialog has and Add and a Cancel button. once you select a file, the Add button shows a dropdown arrow that allows you to add the class as a link. But that is a way to add individual classes. If you wanted a whole library of objects, it would make more sense to add a project. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 9:56 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects Hi John et al To add to the confusing, I see no "Link" option anywhere; _if_ the Open button has an dropdown arrow juxtaposed, it offers "Open" or "Open with ..." only. /gustav >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 11-10-2007 18:48 >>> Charlotte, This conversation is like trying to discuss a specific switch on the space shuttle. I don't know enough to know what I want to do. I have modules that I am developing or have found out there that I want to use in various projects. I do not want those modules embedded in each project precisely because of maintenance issues. In my terminology that is a library. ATM this is really a "library" of classes / modules that will be shared between projects. Understand that I do not truly understand "project" and "solution". A project is where poor people live and a solution is chemicals mixed in a liquid. Alternatively Project and Solution are terms used by much more advanced .Net programmers used to confuse beginners and establish respective positions in the programming hierarchy. Take it from there. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 12:16 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects But I thought you were trying to add your other project to a solution, not just a specific class. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 9:12 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects Hmmm... If you "add existing" a file Find dialog opens. At the bottom of THAT is an ADD button which has a little drop down to the right of it. If you drop that down a "LINK option". If you select "LINK" then it adds the module as a link instead of importing it directly into the project. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 10:58 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects You're talking about two different things. Open is a menu item under the file menu. That's what Doris was referring to, I think. Charlotte Foust From ssharkins at gmail.com Fri Oct 12 09:24:31 2007 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 10:24:31 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Hello Message-ID: <00e201c80cdb$9fc66690$4b3a8343@SusanOne> Well, I'm here. My first question regards VB Express and VB.Net -- are they the same thing? I already have VB Express. IN the book I wrote on SQL Server Express, I included a chapter on using VB Express with SS Express. So, I'm not a total novice, but I don't actually use it for anything -- just to write that chapter. From the AccessD conversation, I gather I can use VB Express with Access too? Susan H. From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Oct 19 05:16:44 2007 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 12:16:44 +0200 Subject: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects Message-ID: Hi Charlotte (when you return) et al I was derailed; I looked at the main menu File, Add. Where the link option exists, however, is in the Solution Explorer panel - if you right-click at the top level item. In the popup menu choose Add, Existing Item ... Now the Add Existing Item dialogue opens and, when a file is selected, the Add button features a dropdown arrow. Clicking this reveals the options Add Add As Link /gustav >>> cfoust at infostatsystems.com 11-10-2007 19:11 >>> When you add Existing Item, the add dialog has and Add and a Cancel button. once you select a file, the Add button shows a dropdown arrow that allows you to add the class as a link. But that is a way to add individual classes. If you wanted a whole library of objects, it would make more sense to add a project. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 9:56 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects Hi John et al To add to the confusing, I see no "Link" option anywhere; _if_ the Open button has an dropdown arrow juxtaposed, it offers "Open" or "Open with ..." only. /gustav >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 11-10-2007 18:48 >>> Charlotte, This conversation is like trying to discuss a specific switch on the space shuttle. I don't know enough to know what I want to do. I have modules that I am developing or have found out there that I want to use in various projects. I do not want those modules embedded in each project precisely because of maintenance issues. In my terminology that is a library. ATM this is really a "library" of classes / modules that will be shared between projects. Understand that I do not truly understand "project" and "solution". A project is where poor people live and a solution is chemicals mixed in a liquid. Alternatively Project and Solution are terms used by much more advanced .Net programmers used to confuse beginners and establish respective positions in the programming hierarchy. Take it from there. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 12:16 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects But I thought you were trying to add your other project to a solution, not just a specific class. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 9:12 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects Hmmm... If you "add existing" a file Find dialog opens. At the bottom of THAT is an ADD button which has a little drop down to the right of it. If you drop that down a "LINK option". If you select "LINK" then it adds the module as a link instead of importing it directly into the project. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 10:58 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VB.Net - Using modules in other projects You're talking about two different things. Open is a menu item under the file menu. That's what Doris was referring to, I think. Charlotte Foust From carbonnb at gmail.com Sat Oct 20 10:27:11 2007 From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 11:27:11 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Message-ID: Hi there folks, Based on some comments over on AccessD we are looking at renaming the DBA-VB list. We don't want to exclude any programming language be it VB6, VB.Net, C#, J# or the next greating thing MS brings out. So we were considering renaming it to something like DBA-Coding or DBA-Programming Does anyone have any other suggestions or comments about the proposal? John Bartow - President, Database Advisors, Inc. Bryan Carbonnell - Listmaster, Database Advisors, Inc. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Oct 20 13:59:21 2007 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 11:59:21 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Bryan: With the exception of VB6 there is no coding that will be of .Net origin so why not just move on and just call the list DBA.Net. When the decision is finally made send me the confirmation and so it will be appropriately posted on our web site. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2007 8:27 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Hi there folks, Based on some comments over on AccessD we are looking at renaming the DBA-VB list. We don't want to exclude any programming language be it VB6, VB.Net, C#, J# or the next greating thing MS brings out. So we were considering renaming it to something like DBA-Coding or DBA-Programming Does anyone have any other suggestions or comments about the proposal? John Bartow - President, Database Advisors, Inc. Bryan Carbonnell - Listmaster, Database Advisors, Inc. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Oct 20 15:35:53 2007 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 13:35:53 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Meant to say: With the exception of VB6 there is no coding that will not be of .Net origin... Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2007 11:59 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Hi Bryan: With the exception of VB6 there is no coding that will be of .Net origin so why not just move on and just call the list DBA.Net. When the decision is finally made send me the confirmation and so it will be appropriately posted on our web site. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2007 8:27 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Hi there folks, Based on some comments over on AccessD we are looking at renaming the DBA-VB list. We don't want to exclude any programming language be it VB6, VB.Net, C#, J# or the next greating thing MS brings out. So we were considering renaming it to something like DBA-Coding or DBA-Programming Does anyone have any other suggestions or comments about the proposal? John Bartow - President, Database Advisors, Inc. Bryan Carbonnell - Listmaster, Database Advisors, Inc. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Sat Oct 20 17:23:16 2007 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 17:23:16 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'd say it's a good idea. Already saw Jim's post, and would have to disagree. There is a lot of 'coding' that doesn't necessarily fall under AccessD. VBScript, ASP, etc. I know several other languages, though, ironically, I only dabble in .Net, still prefer VB 6. I am not going to be on a dozen lists, but I wouldn't mind changing this list to accommodate all programming languages. Drew -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2007 10:27 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Hi there folks, Based on some comments over on AccessD we are looking at renaming the DBA-VB list. We don't want to exclude any programming language be it VB6, VB.Net, C#, J# or the next greating thing MS brings out. So we were considering renaming it to something like DBA-Coding or DBA-Programming Does anyone have any other suggestions or comments about the proposal? John Bartow - President, Database Advisors, Inc. Bryan Carbonnell - Listmaster, Database Advisors, Inc. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI BusinessSensitve material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From robert at webedb.com Mon Oct 22 15:31:10 2007 From: robert at webedb.com (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 15:31:10 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200710222034.l9MKYsrO000925@databaseadvisors.com> DBS-DotNetLanguages At 12:00 PM 10/20/2007, you wrote: >Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 11:27:11 -0400 >From: "Bryan Carbonnell" >Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB >To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com >Message-ID: > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > >Hi there folks, > >Based on some comments over on AccessD we are looking at renaming the >DBA-VB list. We don't want to exclude any programming language be it >VB6, VB.Net, C#, J# or the next greating thing MS brings out. > >So we were considering renaming it to something like DBA-Coding or >DBA-Programming > >Does anyone have any other suggestions or comments about the proposal? > >John Bartow - President, Database Advisors, Inc. >Bryan Carbonnell - Listmaster, Database Advisors, Inc. > >-- >Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com >Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well >preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, >shouting "What a great ride!" > > >------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >dba-VB mailing list >dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > >End of dba-VB Digest, Vol 48, Issue 10 >************************************** From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Mon Oct 22 17:20:48 2007 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Michael R Mattys) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 18:20:48 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB References: <200710222034.l9MKYsrO000925@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <00dd01c814f9$cd3146b0$0202a8c0@Laptop> I'm not interested in .Net anything, right now. I guess you're saying that both PHP and Ruby on Rails are irrelevant when it comes to Access? Michael R. Mattys MapPoint & Access Dev www.mattysconsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Oct 22 17:29:30 2007 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 18:29:30 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: <00dd01c814f9$cd3146b0$0202a8c0@Laptop> References: <200710222034.l9MKYsrO000925@databaseadvisors.com> <00dd01c814f9$cd3146b0$0202a8c0@Laptop> Message-ID: <001701c814fb$043777f0$647aa8c0@M90> This really isn't about the Access list. That will remain named as it is I presume. The discussion is about renaming the VB list to embrace a wider audience. It is my opinion that we should not cast too wide a net or we will end up attracting people for every platform under the sun and they will soon leave because there is no support available for their respective platform. I thought we should simply widen the target to include the .Net platform, specifically VB.Net. The list is currently VB oriented, and widening the scope to include VB.Net (which is a large percentage of the current traffic) would be entirely appropriate. Just my opinion. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael R Mattys Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 6:21 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I'm not interested in .Net anything, right now. I guess you're saying that both PHP and Ruby on Rails are irrelevant when it comes to Access? Michael R. Mattys MapPoint & Access Dev www.mattysconsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Oct 22 17:46:19 2007 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 15:46:19 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: <00dd01c814f9$cd3146b0$0202a8c0@Laptop> Message-ID: Those two development environments would hardly be irrelevant but there are dozens of great development environments... so where do you draw the line? For the most part we are a MS shop but with a keen eye on superior products. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael R Mattys Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 3:21 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I'm not interested in .Net anything, right now. I guess you're saying that both PHP and Ruby on Rails are irrelevant when it comes to Access? Michael R. Mattys MapPoint & Access Dev www.mattysconsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Mon Oct 22 18:49:19 2007 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Michael R Mattys) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 19:49:19 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB References: <200710222034.l9MKYsrO000925@databaseadvisors.com> <00dd01c814f9$cd3146b0$0202a8c0@Laptop> <001701c814fb$043777f0$647aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: <012401c81506$2affe6a0$0202a8c0@Laptop> We're going to need a stoplight for all this traffic. DBA.Code.Misc Michael R. Mattys MapPoint & Access Dev www.mattysconsulting.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "jwcolby" To: Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 6:29 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > This really isn't about the Access list. That will remain named as it is > I > presume. The discussion is about renaming the VB list to embrace a wider > audience. > > It is my opinion that we should not cast too wide a net or we will end up > attracting people for every platform under the sun and they will soon > leave > because there is no support available for their respective platform. > > I thought we should simply widen the target to include the .Net platform, > specifically VB.Net. The list is currently VB oriented, and widening the > scope to include VB.Net (which is a large percentage of the current > traffic) > would be entirely appropriate. > > Just my opinion. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael R Mattys > Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 6:21 PM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > I'm not interested in .Net anything, right now. > > I guess you're saying that both PHP and Ruby on Rails are irrelevant when > it > comes to Access? > > Michael R. Mattys > MapPoint & Access Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Oct 22 19:33:31 2007 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 20:33:31 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: References: <00dd01c814f9$cd3146b0$0202a8c0@Laptop> Message-ID: <001e01c8150c$5bb5efa0$647aa8c0@M90> LOL. If we had a keen eye on superior products we wouldn't be an MS shop. 8-O John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 6:46 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Those two development environments would hardly be irrelevant but there are dozens of great development environments... so where do you draw the line? For the most part we are a MS shop but with a keen eye on superior products. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael R Mattys Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 3:21 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I'm not interested in .Net anything, right now. I guess you're saying that both PHP and Ruby on Rails are irrelevant when it comes to Access? Michael R. Mattys MapPoint & Access Dev www.mattysconsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Oct 22 19:34:55 2007 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 20:34:55 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: <012401c81506$2affe6a0$0202a8c0@Laptop> References: <200710222034.l9MKYsrO000925@databaseadvisors.com><00dd01c814f9$cd3146b0$0202a8c0@Laptop><001701c814fb$043777f0$647aa8c0@M90> <012401c81506$2affe6a0$0202a8c0@Laptop> Message-ID: <001f01c8150c$8c345590$647aa8c0@M90> LOL. Come one, come all. Now one here uses that but now that you are here we have at least one. ;-) John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael R Mattys Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 7:49 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB We're going to need a stoplight for all this traffic. DBA.Code.Misc Michael R. Mattys MapPoint & Access Dev www.mattysconsulting.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "jwcolby" To: Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 6:29 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > This really isn't about the Access list. That will remain named as it is > I > presume. The discussion is about renaming the VB list to embrace a wider > audience. > > It is my opinion that we should not cast too wide a net or we will end up > attracting people for every platform under the sun and they will soon > leave > because there is no support available for their respective platform. > > I thought we should simply widen the target to include the .Net platform, > specifically VB.Net. The list is currently VB oriented, and widening the > scope to include VB.Net (which is a large percentage of the current > traffic) > would be entirely appropriate. > > Just my opinion. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael R Mattys > Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 6:21 PM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > I'm not interested in .Net anything, right now. > > I guess you're saying that both PHP and Ruby on Rails are irrelevant when > it > comes to Access? > > Michael R. Mattys > MapPoint & Access Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Oct 22 21:12:45 2007 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 19:12:45 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: <001e01c8150c$5bb5efa0$647aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: Officially, I have deniability... I did not say that. :-) Anyway .Net products run on Linux and Macs. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 5:34 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB LOL. If we had a keen eye on superior products we wouldn't be an MS shop. 8-O John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 6:46 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Those two development environments would hardly be irrelevant but there are dozens of great development environments... so where do you draw the line? For the most part we are a MS shop but with a keen eye on superior products. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael R Mattys Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 3:21 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I'm not interested in .Net anything, right now. I guess you're saying that both PHP and Ruby on Rails are irrelevant when it comes to Access? Michael R. Mattys MapPoint & Access Dev www.mattysconsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Oct 22 21:16:02 2007 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 19:16:02 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: <001f01c8150c$8c345590$647aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: <7A56D266028C4A9BBF4F46ED1507D274@creativesystemdesigns.com> There was a computer club that was started in around 1982 in Victoria that called itself 'Big Blue'. When a host of other copies started hitting the market the name was changed to 'Big Blue and cousins'. Maybe we could call the new site 'DBA.Net and cousins'? Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 5:35 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB LOL. Come one, come all. Now one here uses that but now that you are here we have at least one. ;-) John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael R Mattys Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 7:49 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB We're going to need a stoplight for all this traffic. DBA.Code.Misc Michael R. Mattys MapPoint & Access Dev www.mattysconsulting.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "jwcolby" To: Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 6:29 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > This really isn't about the Access list. That will remain named as it is > I > presume. The discussion is about renaming the VB list to embrace a wider > audience. > > It is my opinion that we should not cast too wide a net or we will end up > attracting people for every platform under the sun and they will soon > leave > because there is no support available for their respective platform. > > I thought we should simply widen the target to include the .Net platform, > specifically VB.Net. The list is currently VB oriented, and widening the > scope to include VB.Net (which is a large percentage of the current > traffic) > would be entirely appropriate. > > Just my opinion. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael R Mattys > Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 6:21 PM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > I'm not interested in .Net anything, right now. > > I guess you're saying that both PHP and Ruby on Rails are irrelevant when > it > comes to Access? > > Michael R. Mattys > MapPoint & Access Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From pharold at proftesting.com Tue Oct 23 00:14:31 2007 From: pharold at proftesting.com (Perry L Harold) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 01:14:31 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB References: Message-ID: DBA-Programming sounds reasonable and broad enough. Perry Harold Professional Testing Inc 407-264-2993 pharold at proftesting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2007 11:27 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Hi there folks, Based on some comments over on AccessD we are looking at renaming the DBA-VB list. We don't want to exclude any programming language be it VB6, VB.Net, C#, J# or the next greating thing MS brings out. So we were considering renaming it to something like DBA-Coding or DBA-Programming Does anyone have any other suggestions or comments about the proposal? John Bartow - President, Database Advisors, Inc. Bryan Carbonnell - Listmaster, Database Advisors, Inc. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue Oct 23 02:27:29 2007 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 09:27:29 +0200 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Message-ID: Hi John et al That covers pretty much my opinion. However, the new name isn't important too me, I just found VB(6) too restricted. I don't think anyone would be offended by a post on Java, Python or any other language, even VBScript - in fact I would welcome it - it's just that the audience with a relevant knowledge is quite limited so response would probably be low. But could we develop an audience for, say, Ruby On Rails it would be great. Even though we here at Cactus Data have decided for Visual Studio and C#, I would at least browse such postings because of the relevance to databases and because you can always learn something. In fact, one of the strengths of our lists is the members' broad background often supported by solid experience from real life, and we should encourage any step to maintain this. /gustav >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 23-10-2007 00:29 >>> This really isn't about the Access list. That will remain named as it is I presume. The discussion is about renaming the VB list to embrace a wider audience. It is my opinion that we should not cast too wide a net or we will end up attracting people for every platform under the sun and they will soon leave because there is no support available for their respective platform. I thought we should simply widen the target to include the .Net platform, specifically VB.Net. The list is currently VB oriented, and widening the scope to include VB.Net (which is a large percentage of the current traffic) would be entirely appropriate. Just my opinion. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael R Mattys Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 6:21 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I'm not interested in .Net anything, right now. I guess you're saying that both PHP and Ruby on Rails are irrelevant when it comes to Access? Michael R. Mattys MapPoint & Access Dev www.mattysconsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Oct 23 07:21:07 2007 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 08:21:07 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <003601c8156f$3108e9c0$647aa8c0@M90> Gustav, One of our list members mentioned that he didn't hang out on our vb list because it never gained critical mass and therefore the membership was low and the responses to questions low or nonexistent. I think this is a real concern. AccessD is specialized in Access, everyone there knows and "loves" Access and come there to get assistance or share their knowledge about Access. Now we create a list about "programming". That is fine except now someone come to the list and post a question about Ruby On Rails and get no answers because while everyone there is interested in following such threads, no one actually uses it. The thread never starts, and the poster goes away and finds a Ruby On Rails list so that he can get his questions answered. Make an assumption that somehow we achieve critical mass and we have 40 questions a day posted in each of Ruby, Java, Python, VBScript, VB6, VB.Net, C#, J#, F#, c#, D#, E# Z# and A flat Minor. I am on the list to learn about VB (the original focus) or in my case VB.Net, and I am getting flooded with emails about subjects which (not being a musician) I am not interested in nor do I have the expertise to appreciate. Neither scenario works. We keep AccessD focused on Access for a reason, so that it can be home to people interested in the subject. Having said that, we can certainly host a list on "Programming", in which discussions about programming concepts and even specific problems in whatever language are encouraged. But I for one would not vote to make the VB list that list. I use VB.Net a lot these days and I would like a list focused on the dot net technology, while holding on to our VB brethren who have not yet moved up. I vote to make the VB List a VB list which adds VB.Net and even other VB variations if desired, but still focused on VB. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 3:27 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Hi John et al That covers pretty much my opinion. However, the new name isn't important too me, I just found VB(6) too restricted. I don't think anyone would be offended by a post on Java, Python or any other language, even VBScript - in fact I would welcome it - it's just that the audience with a relevant knowledge is quite limited so response would probably be low. But could we develop an audience for, say, Ruby On Rails it would be great. Even though we here at Cactus Data have decided for Visual Studio and C#, I would at least browse such postings because of the relevance to databases and because you can always learn something. In fact, one of the strengths of our lists is the members' broad background often supported by solid experience from real life, and we should encourage any step to maintain this. /gustav >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 23-10-2007 00:29 >>> This really isn't about the Access list. That will remain named as it is I presume. The discussion is about renaming the VB list to embrace a wider audience. It is my opinion that we should not cast too wide a net or we will end up attracting people for every platform under the sun and they will soon leave because there is no support available for their respective platform. I thought we should simply widen the target to include the .Net platform, specifically VB.Net. The list is currently VB oriented, and widening the scope to include VB.Net (which is a large percentage of the current traffic) would be entirely appropriate. Just my opinion. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael R Mattys Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 6:21 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I'm not interested in .Net anything, right now. I guess you're saying that both PHP and Ruby on Rails are irrelevant when it comes to Access? Michael R. Mattys MapPoint & Access Dev www.mattysconsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Tue Oct 23 08:12:02 2007 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Michael R Mattys) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 09:12:02 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB References: <003601c8156f$3108e9c0$647aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: <005201c81576$4fc369b0$0202a8c0@Laptop> Well said, John. I concede to VS8. Yet, the boulder doesn't seem to be moving in any direction. Michael R. Mattys MapPoint & Access Dev www.mattysconsulting.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "jwcolby" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 8:21 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > Gustav, > > One of our list members mentioned that he didn't hang out on our vb list > because it never gained critical mass and therefore the membership was low > and the responses to questions low or nonexistent. I think this is a real > concern. AccessD is specialized in Access, everyone there knows and > "loves" > Access and come there to get assistance or share their knowledge about > Access. > > Now we create a list about "programming". That is fine except now someone > come to the list and post a question about Ruby On Rails and get no > answers > because while everyone there is interested in following such threads, no > one > actually uses it. The thread never starts, and the poster goes away and > finds a Ruby On Rails list so that he can get his questions answered. > > Make an assumption that somehow we achieve critical mass and we have 40 > questions a day posted in each of Ruby, Java, Python, VBScript, VB6, > VB.Net, > C#, J#, F#, c#, D#, E# Z# and A flat Minor. I am on the list to learn > about > VB (the original focus) or in my case VB.Net, and I am getting flooded > with > emails about subjects which (not being a musician) I am not interested in > nor do I have the expertise to appreciate. > > Neither scenario works. We keep AccessD focused on Access for a reason, > so > that it can be home to people interested in the subject. > > Having said that, we can certainly host a list on "Programming", in which > discussions about programming concepts and even specific problems in > whatever language are encouraged. But I for one would not vote to make > the > VB list that list. > > I use VB.Net a lot these days and I would like a list focused on the dot > net > technology, while holding on to our VB brethren who have not yet moved up. > I vote to make the VB List a VB list which adds VB.Net and even other VB > variations if desired, but still focused on VB. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > www.ColbyConsulting.com snip > In fact, one of the strengths of our lists is the members' broad > background > often supported by solid experience from real life, and we should > encourage > any step to maintain this. > > /gustav snip > I thought we should simply widen the target to include the .Net platform, > specifically VB.Net. The list is currently VB oriented, and widening the > scope to include VB.Net (which is a large percentage of the current > traffic) > would be entirely appropriate. > > Just my opinion. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > www.ColbyConsulting.com snip > I'm not interested in .Net anything, right now. > Michael R. Mattys > MapPoint & Access Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Tue Oct 23 10:39:08 2007 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 11:39:08 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB References: Message-ID: <004801c8158a$dac17200$6b706c4c@JISREGISTRATION.local> ...what many here apparently don't yet understand Gustav, is just how easy and rewarding the transition from vb.net (even vba) to c# really is in the dot.net environment ...I was a long time vba developer who got pushed into asp.net work by a client and automatically defaulted to using vb.net ...but so many of the samples and tutorials were posted in both vb.net and C# that it became quickly evident that it was mostly just syntax differences ...and minor ones at that ...and more and more of the samples/tutorials I was really interested in were available only in c# because vb.net simply could not do it as well if at all. ...my vote goes to dba.net on the simple basis that most questions posed in either .net language can be readily addressed by any one experienced in either ...besides which the free translators available have become quite adept at going to from either language. ...imnsho, dba.programming will suffer the same fate as dba.vb has but for exactly the opposite reason. ...my 2 cents, worth exactly what it cost you. William ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 3:27 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > Hi John et al > > That covers pretty much my opinion. > However, the new name isn't important too me, I just found VB(6) too > restricted. I don't think anyone would be offended by a post on Java, > Python or any other language, even VBScript - in fact I would welcome it - > it's just that the audience with a relevant knowledge is quite limited so > response would probably be low. But could we develop an audience for, say, > Ruby On Rails it would be great. Even though we here at Cactus Data have > decided for Visual Studio and C#, I would at least browse such postings > because of the relevance to databases and because you can always learn > something. > > In fact, one of the strengths of our lists is the members' broad > background often supported by solid experience from real life, and we > should encourage any step to maintain this. > > /gustav > >>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 23-10-2007 00:29 >>> > This really isn't about the Access list. That will remain named as it is > I > presume. The discussion is about renaming the VB list to embrace a wider > audience. > > It is my opinion that we should not cast too wide a net or we will end up > attracting people for every platform under the sun and they will soon > leave > because there is no support available for their respective platform. > > I thought we should simply widen the target to include the .Net platform, > specifically VB.Net. The list is currently VB oriented, and widening the > scope to include VB.Net (which is a large percentage of the current > traffic) > would be entirely appropriate. > > Just my opinion. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael R Mattys > Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 6:21 PM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > I'm not interested in .Net anything, right now. > > I guess you're saying that both PHP and Ruby on Rails are irrelevant when > it > comes to Access? > > Michael R. Mattys > MapPoint & Access Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Oct 23 11:47:26 2007 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 12:47:26 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] C# vs VB - was RE: Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: <004801c8158a$dac17200$6b706c4c@JISREGISTRATION.local> References: <004801c8158a$dac17200$6b706c4c@JISREGISTRATION.local> Message-ID: <004701c81594$76b6be50$647aa8c0@M90> William, I programmed for a couple of years completely and only in C for a uController project back in 96/97. I went there from Access 2.0 and returned to Access 97 (VBA). I know that the syntax for C# is quite close to VB.Net in a lot of ways and I also know that there are gotchas that have to be understood, remembered and handled. I think that going from VB.Net to C#.Net is a LOT easier than going from VBA to C#.Net for the simple reason that if you are fluent in VB.Net then you are no longer banging your head over the IDE, the plethora of .Net classes, the intricacies of inheritance, partial classes and so forth and so on. That is all handled and understood and NOW you can concentrate on syntax differences. I have been a programmer full time since 1996, with long stints in variances of basic as well as Pascal and "short" stints in C and I just found it irritating moving directly from VBA to C#. I made an educated decision to postpone the move to C# until I was up to speed on VB.Net. I have done translations of code segments between C# back to VB.Net and I can tell you that sometimes it is easy, sometimes it is not. There are things possible in C# that simply are not possible in VB.Net and, believe it or not, Vice Versa. Some of those differences are quite deep conceptually and can throw a major wrench in any conversion. I have not tried it lately, but I know that My. syntax (My.Computer) exists in VB but not in C#, at least in the past. Thus taking any code with My. constructs and porting them to C# requires quite in-depth knowledge of what the equivalent is. The My. construct is just a wrapper, but a wrapper of WHAT. That is just one quick example. So yes, in GENERAL the programming constructs all pretty much match one for one, { = Begin, } = End, For exists in both etc. Once you get past the basics however there are things which are not so quickly and easily translated. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 11:39 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB ...what many here apparently don't yet understand Gustav, is just how easy and rewarding the transition from vb.net (even vba) to c# really is in the dot.net environment ...I was a long time vba developer who got pushed into asp.net work by a client and automatically defaulted to using vb.net ...but so many of the samples and tutorials were posted in both vb.net and C# that it became quickly evident that it was mostly just syntax differences ...and minor ones at that ...and more and more of the samples/tutorials I was really interested in were available only in c# because vb.net simply could not do it as well if at all. ...my vote goes to dba.net on the simple basis that most questions posed in either .net language can be readily addressed by any one experienced in either ...besides which the free translators available have become quite adept at going to from either language. ...imnsho, dba.programming will suffer the same fate as dba.vb has but for exactly the opposite reason. ...my 2 cents, worth exactly what it cost you. William From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Oct 23 12:02:44 2007 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 10:02:44 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] C# vs VB - was RE: Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: <004701c81594$76b6be50$647aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: As far as I understand there are 2 possible reasons for going to C# if you are competent in VB.Net. 1. The one key point for going to C# as apposed to Vb.Net would be for performance. That is not the case as they both perform equally so what is the advantage. 2. The other point is that once an application is started in C# it has to be completed in C#. This is also not the case as .Net derivatives can be mixed and compiled. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 9:47 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] C# vs VB - was RE: Renaming DBA-VB William, I programmed for a couple of years completely and only in C for a uController project back in 96/97. I went there from Access 2.0 and returned to Access 97 (VBA). I know that the syntax for C# is quite close to VB.Net in a lot of ways and I also know that there are gotchas that have to be understood, remembered and handled. I think that going from VB.Net to C#.Net is a LOT easier than going from VBA to C#.Net for the simple reason that if you are fluent in VB.Net then you are no longer banging your head over the IDE, the plethora of .Net classes, the intricacies of inheritance, partial classes and so forth and so on. That is all handled and understood and NOW you can concentrate on syntax differences. I have been a programmer full time since 1996, with long stints in variances of basic as well as Pascal and "short" stints in C and I just found it irritating moving directly from VBA to C#. I made an educated decision to postpone the move to C# until I was up to speed on VB.Net. I have done translations of code segments between C# back to VB.Net and I can tell you that sometimes it is easy, sometimes it is not. There are things possible in C# that simply are not possible in VB.Net and, believe it or not, Vice Versa. Some of those differences are quite deep conceptually and can throw a major wrench in any conversion. I have not tried it lately, but I know that My. syntax (My.Computer) exists in VB but not in C#, at least in the past. Thus taking any code with My. constructs and porting them to C# requires quite in-depth knowledge of what the equivalent is. The My. construct is just a wrapper, but a wrapper of WHAT. That is just one quick example. So yes, in GENERAL the programming constructs all pretty much match one for one, { = Begin, } = End, For exists in both etc. Once you get past the basics however there are things which are not so quickly and easily translated. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 11:39 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB ...what many here apparently don't yet understand Gustav, is just how easy and rewarding the transition from vb.net (even vba) to c# really is in the dot.net environment ...I was a long time vba developer who got pushed into asp.net work by a client and automatically defaulted to using vb.net ...but so many of the samples and tutorials were posted in both vb.net and C# that it became quickly evident that it was mostly just syntax differences ...and minor ones at that ...and more and more of the samples/tutorials I was really interested in were available only in c# because vb.net simply could not do it as well if at all. ...my vote goes to dba.net on the simple basis that most questions posed in either .net language can be readily addressed by any one experienced in either ...besides which the free translators available have become quite adept at going to from either language. ...imnsho, dba.programming will suffer the same fate as dba.vb has but for exactly the opposite reason. ...my 2 cents, worth exactly what it cost you. William _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Oct 23 12:09:30 2007 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 13:09:30 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] C# vs VB - was RE: Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: References: <004701c81594$76b6be50$647aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: <004d01c81597$7a7dd110$647aa8c0@M90> Jim, you forgot: Employers pay more for C# programmers Examples are in C#. Both of those are true and valid reasons. The professionals state that in general both VB and C# are capable. Both are a thin veneer over the .Net framework. And each do have a VERY small handful of things that they can do that the other can't. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 1:03 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] C# vs VB - was RE: Renaming DBA-VB As far as I understand there are 2 possible reasons for going to C# if you are competent in VB.Net. 1. The one key point for going to C# as apposed to Vb.Net would be for performance. That is not the case as they both perform equally so what is the advantage. 2. The other point is that once an application is started in C# it has to be completed in C#. This is also not the case as .Net derivatives can be mixed and compiled. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 9:47 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] C# vs VB - was RE: Renaming DBA-VB William, I programmed for a couple of years completely and only in C for a uController project back in 96/97. I went there from Access 2.0 and returned to Access 97 (VBA). I know that the syntax for C# is quite close to VB.Net in a lot of ways and I also know that there are gotchas that have to be understood, remembered and handled. I think that going from VB.Net to C#.Net is a LOT easier than going from VBA to C#.Net for the simple reason that if you are fluent in VB.Net then you are no longer banging your head over the IDE, the plethora of .Net classes, the intricacies of inheritance, partial classes and so forth and so on. That is all handled and understood and NOW you can concentrate on syntax differences. I have been a programmer full time since 1996, with long stints in variances of basic as well as Pascal and "short" stints in C and I just found it irritating moving directly from VBA to C#. I made an educated decision to postpone the move to C# until I was up to speed on VB.Net. I have done translations of code segments between C# back to VB.Net and I can tell you that sometimes it is easy, sometimes it is not. There are things possible in C# that simply are not possible in VB.Net and, believe it or not, Vice Versa. Some of those differences are quite deep conceptually and can throw a major wrench in any conversion. I have not tried it lately, but I know that My. syntax (My.Computer) exists in VB but not in C#, at least in the past. Thus taking any code with My. constructs and porting them to C# requires quite in-depth knowledge of what the equivalent is. The My. construct is just a wrapper, but a wrapper of WHAT. That is just one quick example. So yes, in GENERAL the programming constructs all pretty much match one for one, { = Begin, } = End, For exists in both etc. Once you get past the basics however there are things which are not so quickly and easily translated. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 11:39 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB ...what many here apparently don't yet understand Gustav, is just how easy and rewarding the transition from vb.net (even vba) to c# really is in the dot.net environment ...I was a long time vba developer who got pushed into asp.net work by a client and automatically defaulted to using vb.net ...but so many of the samples and tutorials were posted in both vb.net and C# that it became quickly evident that it was mostly just syntax differences ...and minor ones at that ...and more and more of the samples/tutorials I was really interested in were available only in c# because vb.net simply could not do it as well if at all. ...my vote goes to dba.net on the simple basis that most questions posed in either .net language can be readily addressed by any one experienced in either ...besides which the free translators available have become quite adept at going to from either language. ...imnsho, dba.programming will suffer the same fate as dba.vb has but for exactly the opposite reason. ...my 2 cents, worth exactly what it cost you. William _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Tue Oct 23 12:43:09 2007 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 13:43:09 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] C# vs VB - was RE: Renaming DBA-VB References: <004701c81594$76b6be50$647aa8c0@M90> <004d01c81597$7a7dd110$647aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: <002901c8159c$2da13440$6b706c4c@JISREGISTRATION.local> ...without getting into an argument I have neither the time nor the acumen for, it would appear that you just made my case for dba.net :) ...the languages are virtually interchangeable front ends for the net framework ...and in fact can be used interchangeably within the framework in most circumstances ...why would we want to eliminate a large group of developers with common problems, resolutions, experiences, and code samples by limiting the new group to only vb.net? William ----- Original Message ----- From: "jwcolby" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 1:09 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] C# vs VB - was RE: Renaming DBA-VB > Jim, you forgot: > > Employers pay more for C# programmers > Examples are in C#. > > Both of those are true and valid reasons. The professionals state that in > general both VB and C# are capable. Both are a thin veneer over the .Net > framework. And each do have a VERY small handful of things that they can > do > that the other can't. > > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 1:03 PM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] C# vs VB - was RE: Renaming DBA-VB > > As far as I understand there are 2 possible reasons for going to C# if you > are competent in VB.Net. > > 1. The one key point for going to C# as apposed to Vb.Net would be for > performance. That is not the case as they both perform equally so what is > the advantage. > > 2. The other point is that once an application is started in C# it has to > be > completed in C#. This is also not the case as .Net derivatives can be > mixed > and compiled. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 9:47 AM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [dba-VB] C# vs VB - was RE: Renaming DBA-VB > > William, > > I programmed for a couple of years completely and only in C for a > uController project back in 96/97. I went there from Access 2.0 and > returned to Access 97 (VBA). I know that the syntax for C# is quite close > to VB.Net in a lot of ways and I also know that there are gotchas that > have > to be understood, remembered and handled. I think that going from VB.Net > to > C#.Net is a LOT easier than going from VBA to C#.Net for the simple reason > that if you are fluent in VB.Net then you are no longer banging your head > over the IDE, the plethora of .Net classes, the intricacies of > inheritance, > partial classes and so forth and so on. That is all handled and > understood > and NOW you can concentrate on syntax differences. > > I have been a programmer full time since 1996, with long stints in > variances > of basic as well as Pascal and "short" stints in C and I just found it > irritating moving directly from VBA to C#. I made an educated decision to > postpone the move to C# until I was up to speed on VB.Net. I have done > translations of code segments between C# back to VB.Net and I can tell you > that sometimes it is easy, sometimes it is not. There are things possible > in C# that simply are not possible in VB.Net and, believe it or not, Vice > Versa. Some of those differences are quite deep conceptually and can > throw > a major wrench in any conversion. > > I have not tried it lately, but I know that My. syntax (My.Computer) > exists > in VB but not in C#, at least in the past. Thus taking any code with My. > constructs and porting them to C# requires quite in-depth knowledge of > what > the equivalent is. The My. construct is just a wrapper, but a wrapper of > WHAT. That is just one quick example. > > So yes, in GENERAL the programming constructs all pretty much match one > for > one, { = Begin, } = End, For exists in both etc. Once you get past the > basics however there are things which are not so quickly and easily > translated. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman > Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 11:39 AM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > ...what many here apparently don't yet understand Gustav, is just how easy > and rewarding the transition from vb.net (even vba) to c# really is in the > dot.net environment ...I was a long time vba developer who got pushed into > asp.net work by a client and automatically defaulted to using vb.net > ...but > so many of the samples and tutorials were posted in both vb.net and C# > that > it became quickly evident that it was mostly just syntax differences > ...and > minor ones at that ...and more and more of the samples/tutorials I was > really interested in were available only in c# because vb.net simply > could > not do it as well if at all. > > ...my vote goes to dba.net on the simple basis that most questions posed > in > either .net language can be readily addressed by any one experienced in > either ...besides which the free translators available have become quite > adept at going to from either language. > > ...imnsho, dba.programming will suffer the same fate as dba.vb has but for > exactly the opposite reason. > > ...my 2 cents, worth exactly what it cost you. > > William > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Oct 23 13:08:40 2007 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 14:08:40 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] C# vs VB - was RE: Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: <002901c8159c$2da13440$6b706c4c@JISREGISTRATION.local> References: <004701c81594$76b6be50$647aa8c0@M90><004d01c81597$7a7dd110$647aa8c0@M90> <002901c8159c$2da13440$6b706c4c@JISREGISTRATION.local> Message-ID: <005101c8159f$be798f00$647aa8c0@M90> I have no problem with that, I just would hate to see it purport to be a knowledge base for every language under the sun. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 1:43 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] C# vs VB - was RE: Renaming DBA-VB ...without getting into an argument I have neither the time nor the acumen for, it would appear that you just made my case for dba.net :) ...the languages are virtually interchangeable front ends for the net framework ...and in fact can be used interchangeably within the framework in most circumstances ...why would we want to eliminate a large group of developers with common problems, resolutions, experiences, and code samples by limiting the new group to only vb.net? William ----- Original Message ----- From: "jwcolby" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 1:09 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] C# vs VB - was RE: Renaming DBA-VB > Jim, you forgot: > > Employers pay more for C# programmers > Examples are in C#. > > Both of those are true and valid reasons. The professionals state that in > general both VB and C# are capable. Both are a thin veneer over the .Net > framework. And each do have a VERY small handful of things that they can > do > that the other can't. > > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 1:03 PM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] C# vs VB - was RE: Renaming DBA-VB > > As far as I understand there are 2 possible reasons for going to C# if you > are competent in VB.Net. > > 1. The one key point for going to C# as apposed to Vb.Net would be for > performance. That is not the case as they both perform equally so what is > the advantage. > > 2. The other point is that once an application is started in C# it has to > be > completed in C#. This is also not the case as .Net derivatives can be > mixed > and compiled. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 9:47 AM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [dba-VB] C# vs VB - was RE: Renaming DBA-VB > > William, > > I programmed for a couple of years completely and only in C for a > uController project back in 96/97. I went there from Access 2.0 and > returned to Access 97 (VBA). I know that the syntax for C# is quite close > to VB.Net in a lot of ways and I also know that there are gotchas that > have > to be understood, remembered and handled. I think that going from VB.Net > to > C#.Net is a LOT easier than going from VBA to C#.Net for the simple reason > that if you are fluent in VB.Net then you are no longer banging your head > over the IDE, the plethora of .Net classes, the intricacies of > inheritance, > partial classes and so forth and so on. That is all handled and > understood > and NOW you can concentrate on syntax differences. > > I have been a programmer full time since 1996, with long stints in > variances > of basic as well as Pascal and "short" stints in C and I just found it > irritating moving directly from VBA to C#. I made an educated decision to > postpone the move to C# until I was up to speed on VB.Net. I have done > translations of code segments between C# back to VB.Net and I can tell you > that sometimes it is easy, sometimes it is not. There are things possible > in C# that simply are not possible in VB.Net and, believe it or not, Vice > Versa. Some of those differences are quite deep conceptually and can > throw > a major wrench in any conversion. > > I have not tried it lately, but I know that My. syntax (My.Computer) > exists > in VB but not in C#, at least in the past. Thus taking any code with My. > constructs and porting them to C# requires quite in-depth knowledge of > what > the equivalent is. The My. construct is just a wrapper, but a wrapper of > WHAT. That is just one quick example. > > So yes, in GENERAL the programming constructs all pretty much match one > for > one, { = Begin, } = End, For exists in both etc. Once you get past the > basics however there are things which are not so quickly and easily > translated. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman > Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 11:39 AM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > ...what many here apparently don't yet understand Gustav, is just how easy > and rewarding the transition from vb.net (even vba) to c# really is in the > dot.net environment ...I was a long time vba developer who got pushed into > asp.net work by a client and automatically defaulted to using vb.net > ...but > so many of the samples and tutorials were posted in both vb.net and C# > that > it became quickly evident that it was mostly just syntax differences > ...and > minor ones at that ...and more and more of the samples/tutorials I was > really interested in were available only in c# because vb.net simply > could > not do it as well if at all. > > ...my vote goes to dba.net on the simple basis that most questions posed > in > either .net language can be readily addressed by any one experienced in > either ...besides which the free translators available have become quite > adept at going to from either language. > > ...imnsho, dba.programming will suffer the same fate as dba.vb has but for > exactly the opposite reason. > > ...my 2 cents, worth exactly what it cost you. > > William > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From robert at webedb.com Tue Oct 23 13:13:09 2007 From: robert at webedb.com (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 13:13:09 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] C# vs VB - was RE: Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200710231818.l9NIInOt026521@databaseadvisors.com> The third is that it is what the customer wants. Most of the contracting in the Houston, TX area is for C# and not VB.net. No matter how you slice this one, it comes up C#. So, in the naming thing, DBA-DotNetLanguages is probably too broad. Create 2 new ones (at least) DBA-VBnet and DBA-C#. The the questions can fall where they belong. At 11:58 AM 10/23/2007, you wrote: >Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 10:02:44 -0700 >From: Jim Lawrence >Subject: Re: [dba-VB] C# vs VB - was RE: Renaming DBA-VB >To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com >Message-ID: > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > >As far as I understand there are 2 possible reasons for going to C# if you >are competent in VB.Net. > >1. The one key point for going to C# as apposed to Vb.Net would be for >performance. That is not the case as they both perform equally so what is >the advantage. > >2. The other point is that once an application is started in C# it has to be >completed in C#. This is also not the case as .Net derivatives can be mixed >and compiled. > >Jim From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue Oct 23 13:29:02 2007 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 20:29:02 +0200 Subject: [dba-VB] C# vs VB - was RE: Renaming DBA-VB Message-ID: Hi Robert I think the traffic on that new list would be too low ... /gustav >>> robert at webedb.com 23-10-2007 20:13:09 >>> The third is that it is what the customer wants. Most of the contracting in the Houston, TX area is for C# and not VB.net. No matter how you slice this one, it comes up C#. So, in the naming thing, DBA-DotNetLanguages is probably too broad. Create 2 new ones (at least) DBA-VBnet and DBA-C#. The the questions can fall where they belong. From michael at ddisolutions.com.au Tue Oct 23 18:54:56 2007 From: michael at ddisolutions.com.au (Michael Maddison) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 09:54:56 +1000 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB References: <004801c8158a$dac17200$6b706c4c@JISREGISTRATION.local> Message-ID: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D01289F54@ddi-01.DDI.local> I concur... Went exactly the same path as William, 1st .net project in VB since then C# exclusively. Amazing how many clients with bugger all experience in Dev specify C# as well... cheers Michael M ...what many here apparently don't yet understand Gustav, is just how easy and rewarding the transition from vb.net (even vba) to c# really is in the dot.net environment ...I was a long time vba developer who got pushed into asp.net work by a client and automatically defaulted to using vb.net ...but so many of the samples and tutorials were posted in both vb.net and C# that it became quickly evident that it was mostly just syntax differences ...and minor ones at that ...and more and more of the samples/tutorials I was really interested in were available only in c# because vb.net simply could not do it as well if at all. ...my vote goes to dba.net on the simple basis that most questions posed in either .net language can be readily addressed by any one experienced in either ...besides which the free translators available have become quite adept at going to from either language. ...imnsho, dba.programming will suffer the same fate as dba.vb has but for exactly the opposite reason. ...my 2 cents, worth exactly what it cost you. William ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 3:27 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > Hi John et al > > That covers pretty much my opinion. > However, the new name isn't important too me, I just found VB(6) too > restricted. I don't think anyone would be offended by a post on Java, > Python or any other language, even VBScript - in fact I would welcome it - > it's just that the audience with a relevant knowledge is quite limited so > response would probably be low. But could we develop an audience for, say, > Ruby On Rails it would be great. Even though we here at Cactus Data have > decided for Visual Studio and C#, I would at least browse such postings > because of the relevance to databases and because you can always learn > something. > > In fact, one of the strengths of our lists is the members' broad > background often supported by solid experience from real life, and we > should encourage any step to maintain this. > > /gustav > >>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 23-10-2007 00:29 >>> > This really isn't about the Access list. That will remain named as it is > I > presume. The discussion is about renaming the VB list to embrace a wider > audience. > > It is my opinion that we should not cast too wide a net or we will end up > attracting people for every platform under the sun and they will soon > leave > because there is no support available for their respective platform. > > I thought we should simply widen the target to include the .Net platform, > specifically VB.Net. The list is currently VB oriented, and widening the > scope to include VB.Net (which is a large percentage of the current > traffic) > would be entirely appropriate. > > Just my opinion. > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael R Mattys > Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 6:21 PM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > I'm not interested in .Net anything, right now. > > I guess you're saying that both PHP and Ruby on Rails are irrelevant when > it > comes to Access? > > Michael R. Mattys > MapPoint & Access Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Oct 23 19:03:54 2007 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 17:03:54 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: <001701c814fb$043777f0$647aa8c0@M90> References: <200710222034.l9MKYsrO000925@databaseadvisors.com><00dd01c814f9$cd3146b0$0202a8c0@Laptop> <001701c814fb$043777f0$647aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: I agree, John, especially since we aren't creating a new forum, simply renaming one that hasn't been very active of late except in the VB.Net arena. Heck, we get questions in Access-D about Lotus Notes and a variety of other things that aren't Access or VBa. We go through this same process in Woody's Lounge when a new version of Office is released or a new version of Windows or Visual Studio. We added a new forum for .Net and let it go at that. I isn't just VB.Net, but also ADO.Net, ASP, WinForms, WebForms, etc. If we try to make the focus too broad it's more likely that people will go to a list with a name that relates to the help they want, so I consider Programming as way too broad a label unless you preface it with .Net Programming. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 3:30 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB This really isn't about the Access list. That will remain named as it is I presume. The discussion is about renaming the VB list to embrace a wider audience. It is my opinion that we should not cast too wide a net or we will end up attracting people for every platform under the sun and they will soon leave because there is no support available for their respective platform. I thought we should simply widen the target to include the .Net platform, specifically VB.Net. The list is currently VB oriented, and widening the scope to include VB.Net (which is a large percentage of the current traffic) would be entirely appropriate. Just my opinion. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael R Mattys Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 6:21 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I'm not interested in .Net anything, right now. I guess you're saying that both PHP and Ruby on Rails are irrelevant when it comes to Access? Michael R. Mattys MapPoint & Access Dev www.mattysconsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Tue Oct 23 23:03:54 2007 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 23:03:54 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: <003601c8156f$3108e9c0$647aa8c0@M90> References: <003601c8156f$3108e9c0$647aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: <000601c815f2$e4b33d80$6402a8c0@ScuzzPaq> LOL! That was a hoot! -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby ... C#, J#, F#, c#, D#, E# Z# and A flat Minor. From shamil at users.mns.ru Wed Oct 24 01:18:29 2007 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 10:18:29 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: <000601c815f2$e4b33d80$6402a8c0@ScuzzPaq> Message-ID: <000601c81605$b2ab56c0$6401a8c0@nant> <<< ... C#, J#, F#, c#, D#, E# Z# and A flat Minor. >>> Hi All, Let's start building the Tower of Babylon? :) (Just a rhetoric introductory question of course...) I personally *currently* prefer C# for VS-based DB-centered real-life projects' application programming... I'd not mind to develop MS Access 2003/2007/MS Office front-end if my customer will demand that but I will very probably explain/prove to my customer that using VBA/VB6 for anything more than "gluing" MS Access/Office front-end would be waste of resources these days when we have VS2005 for several years and when VS2008 (and .NET Framework 3.5 etc.etc. related) are to be released real soon... One year ago from now I was more VB.NET-ish than C#-ish :) I'd not mind to become Ruby-in-Steel-ish (http://www.sapphiresteel.com/Steel-Download-and-Change-Log ) one year from now and to get really artistic and efficient with it as this Ruby-dance clip shows http://www.metacafe.com/watch/292734/ruby_dancing/ :) I could even get Iron-Python-ish (http://www.devrush.com/world_web_development/world_web_development_blogs/20 07_08_14_13_45_265/full_news ) real soon especially taking into account that I currently programming mainly ASP.NET applications... IOW I mean that right tool should be used for right job/task and that means for me that limiting myself to one programming language is looking here like a loosing strategy - that (limited oneself to use one programming language/tool for every job/task) would look like that - http://www.metacafe.com/watch/881053/penguin_goes_in_shop/ - yes, it's funny and rather efficient but it's not: as artistic and efficient as this http://www.metacafe.com/watch/780405/the_best_goals_ever/ ... and it's not as flexible and free to go in every direction (when needed/forced by market/customers' demands) as this http://www.metacafe.com/watch/788432/extreme_ballerina_stretching/ ... and it (use of one language/tool) is not as hacky/tricky as this http://www.metacafe.com/watch/828731/trigger_green_traffic_lights/ (very efficient on demand "simple' trick :))... and this http://www.metacafe.com/watch/835982/how_to_make_blood_appear_in_body_withou t_any_wound/ (I mean knowing "alchemy" - the best effective and flexible way to use the mix of the modern programming languages/technologies within VS) often helps to keep (new) customers coming etc.etc. :) ) IOW I'm voting/going for being proficient in several programming languages/technologies to be able to speed-up/slow-down when needed (http://www.metacafe.com/watch/880972/viewty/ ) but I'm also voting for/going to use VS IDE as the base (limiting) framework to stay focused on mainstream technologies/development tools, which VS IDE brings so plenty these days... But I'd mainly "limit" myself by VS IDE -enabled programming languages, technologies and .NET Framework for developing core functionality of my customers' applications because VS look like universal and efficient enough for the tasks I'm going to work on: the rest of the tasks if they come I'd subcontract to anybody else with pleasure... And then I (hope) I will have enough spare time for the pleasure of playing and watching tennis http://www.metacafe.com/watch/770613/maria_sharapova/ and traveling to watch the funny events like this one http://www.metacafe.com/watch/786303/bathroom_break/ :) Just wanted to make funny and joyful this becoming a little bit "religious" and boring thread... Sorry if my this posting may sound "religious and boring" for somebody here... Thanks :) -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 8:04 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB LOL! That was a hoot! -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby ... C#, J#, F#, c#, D#, E# Z# and A flat Minor. _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From R.Griffiths at bury.gov.uk Wed Oct 24 03:44:55 2007 From: R.Griffiths at bury.gov.uk (Griffiths, Richard) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 09:44:55 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: References: <200710222034.l9MKYsrO000925@databaseadvisors.com><00dd01c814f9$cd3146b0$0202a8c0@Laptop><001701c814fb$043777f0$647aa8c0@M90> Message-ID: <200710240829.l9O8TMw03053@smarthost.yourcomms.net> I used to use AccessD regularly as most of my development was in MS Access - I still get the emails and use as required (I decided to bite the bullet on throw my efforts in to .NET (VB)). So from someone looking in (more objectively?) I would agree with Charlotte - you are not creating a new forum simply renaming / updating an existing one - go with that. -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: 24 October 2007 01:04 To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I agree, John, especially since we aren't creating a new forum, simply renaming one that hasn't been very active of late except in the VB.Net arena. Heck, we get questions in Access-D about Lotus Notes and a variety of other things that aren't Access or VBa. We go through this same process in Woody's Lounge when a new version of Office is released or a new version of Windows or Visual Studio. We added a new forum for .Net and let it go at that. I isn't just VB.Net, but also ADO.Net, ASP, WinForms, WebForms, etc. If we try to make the focus too broad it's more likely that people will go to a list with a name that relates to the help they want, so I consider Programming as way too broad a label unless you preface it with .Net Programming. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 3:30 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB This really isn't about the Access list. That will remain named as it is I presume. The discussion is about renaming the VB list to embrace a wider audience. It is my opinion that we should not cast too wide a net or we will end up attracting people for every platform under the sun and they will soon leave because there is no support available for their respective platform. I thought we should simply widen the target to include the .Net platform, specifically VB.Net. The list is currently VB oriented, and widening the scope to include VB.Net (which is a large percentage of the current traffic) would be entirely appropriate. Just my opinion. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael R Mattys Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 6:21 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I'm not interested in .Net anything, right now. I guess you're saying that both PHP and Ruby on Rails are irrelevant when it comes to Access? Michael R. Mattys MapPoint & Access Dev www.mattysconsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Oct 24 14:12:04 2007 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 12:12:04 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: <000601c81605$b2ab56c0$6401a8c0@nant> Message-ID: I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering that its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the speed of any .Net flavour. A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not impressed with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was required to write extensive notes in the code. His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 11:18 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB <<< ... C#, J#, F#, c#, D#, E# Z# and A flat Minor. >>> Hi All, Let's start building the Tower of Babylon? :) (Just a rhetoric introductory question of course...) I personally *currently* prefer C# for VS-based DB-centered real-life projects' application programming... I'd not mind to develop MS Access 2003/2007/MS Office front-end if my customer will demand that but I will very probably explain/prove to my customer that using VBA/VB6 for anything more than "gluing" MS Access/Office front-end would be waste of resources these days when we have VS2005 for several years and when VS2008 (and .NET Framework 3.5 etc.etc. related) are to be released real soon... One year ago from now I was more VB.NET-ish than C#-ish :) I'd not mind to become Ruby-in-Steel-ish (http://www.sapphiresteel.com/Steel-Download-and-Change-Log ) one year from now and to get really artistic and efficient with it as this Ruby-dance clip shows http://www.metacafe.com/watch/292734/ruby_dancing/ :) I could even get Iron-Python-ish (http://www.devrush.com/world_web_development/world_web_development_blogs/20 07_08_14_13_45_265/full_news ) real soon especially taking into account that I currently programming mainly ASP.NET applications... IOW I mean that right tool should be used for right job/task and that means for me that limiting myself to one programming language is looking here like a loosing strategy - that (limited oneself to use one programming language/tool for every job/task) would look like that - http://www.metacafe.com/watch/881053/penguin_goes_in_shop/ - yes, it's funny and rather efficient but it's not: as artistic and efficient as this http://www.metacafe.com/watch/780405/the_best_goals_ever/ ... and it's not as flexible and free to go in every direction (when needed/forced by market/customers' demands) as this http://www.metacafe.com/watch/788432/extreme_ballerina_stretching/ ... and it (use of one language/tool) is not as hacky/tricky as this http://www.metacafe.com/watch/828731/trigger_green_traffic_lights/ (very efficient on demand "simple' trick :))... and this http://www.metacafe.com/watch/835982/how_to_make_blood_appear_in_body_withou t_any_wound/ (I mean knowing "alchemy" - the best effective and flexible way to use the mix of the modern programming languages/technologies within VS) often helps to keep (new) customers coming etc.etc. :) ) IOW I'm voting/going for being proficient in several programming languages/technologies to be able to speed-up/slow-down when needed (http://www.metacafe.com/watch/880972/viewty/ ) but I'm also voting for/going to use VS IDE as the base (limiting) framework to stay focused on mainstream technologies/development tools, which VS IDE brings so plenty these days... But I'd mainly "limit" myself by VS IDE -enabled programming languages, technologies and .NET Framework for developing core functionality of my customers' applications because VS look like universal and efficient enough for the tasks I'm going to work on: the rest of the tasks if they come I'd subcontract to anybody else with pleasure... And then I (hope) I will have enough spare time for the pleasure of playing and watching tennis http://www.metacafe.com/watch/770613/maria_sharapova/ and traveling to watch the funny events like this one http://www.metacafe.com/watch/786303/bathroom_break/ :) Just wanted to make funny and joyful this becoming a little bit "religious" and boring thread... Sorry if my this posting may sound "religious and boring" for somebody here... Thanks :) -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 8:04 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB LOL! That was a hoot! -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby ... C#, J#, F#, c#, D#, E# Z# and A flat Minor. _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Oct 24 20:45:50 2007 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 18:45:50 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <6568A7509F5248339AF9C2EB443C7C51@creativesystemdesigns.com> I do not usually answer my own emails but... I must qualify my last comments as I was unaware of the product cost which had me fumbling for my oxygen mask as soon as I saw it. Fortunately there are evaluation copies available. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:12 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering that its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the speed of any .Net flavour. A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not impressed with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was required to write extensive notes in the code. His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 11:18 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB <<< ... C#, J#, F#, c#, D#, E# Z# and A flat Minor. >>> Hi All, Let's start building the Tower of Babylon? :) (Just a rhetoric introductory question of course...) I personally *currently* prefer C# for VS-based DB-centered real-life projects' application programming... I'd not mind to develop MS Access 2003/2007/MS Office front-end if my customer will demand that but I will very probably explain/prove to my customer that using VBA/VB6 for anything more than "gluing" MS Access/Office front-end would be waste of resources these days when we have VS2005 for several years and when VS2008 (and .NET Framework 3.5 etc.etc. related) are to be released real soon... One year ago from now I was more VB.NET-ish than C#-ish :) I'd not mind to become Ruby-in-Steel-ish (http://www.sapphiresteel.com/Steel-Download-and-Change-Log ) one year from now and to get really artistic and efficient with it as this Ruby-dance clip shows http://www.metacafe.com/watch/292734/ruby_dancing/ :) I could even get Iron-Python-ish (http://www.devrush.com/world_web_development/world_web_development_blogs/20 07_08_14_13_45_265/full_news ) real soon especially taking into account that I currently programming mainly ASP.NET applications... IOW I mean that right tool should be used for right job/task and that means for me that limiting myself to one programming language is looking here like a loosing strategy - that (limited oneself to use one programming language/tool for every job/task) would look like that - http://www.metacafe.com/watch/881053/penguin_goes_in_shop/ - yes, it's funny and rather efficient but it's not: as artistic and efficient as this http://www.metacafe.com/watch/780405/the_best_goals_ever/ ... and it's not as flexible and free to go in every direction (when needed/forced by market/customers' demands) as this http://www.metacafe.com/watch/788432/extreme_ballerina_stretching/ ... and it (use of one language/tool) is not as hacky/tricky as this http://www.metacafe.com/watch/828731/trigger_green_traffic_lights/ (very efficient on demand "simple' trick :))... and this http://www.metacafe.com/watch/835982/how_to_make_blood_appear_in_body_withou t_any_wound/ (I mean knowing "alchemy" - the best effective and flexible way to use the mix of the modern programming languages/technologies within VS) often helps to keep (new) customers coming etc.etc. :) ) IOW I'm voting/going for being proficient in several programming languages/technologies to be able to speed-up/slow-down when needed (http://www.metacafe.com/watch/880972/viewty/ ) but I'm also voting for/going to use VS IDE as the base (limiting) framework to stay focused on mainstream technologies/development tools, which VS IDE brings so plenty these days... But I'd mainly "limit" myself by VS IDE -enabled programming languages, technologies and .NET Framework for developing core functionality of my customers' applications because VS look like universal and efficient enough for the tasks I'm going to work on: the rest of the tasks if they come I'd subcontract to anybody else with pleasure... And then I (hope) I will have enough spare time for the pleasure of playing and watching tennis http://www.metacafe.com/watch/770613/maria_sharapova/ and traveling to watch the funny events like this one http://www.metacafe.com/watch/786303/bathroom_break/ :) Just wanted to make funny and joyful this becoming a little bit "religious" and boring thread... Sorry if my this posting may sound "religious and boring" for somebody here... Thanks :) -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 8:04 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB LOL! That was a hoot! -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby ... C#, J#, F#, c#, D#, E# Z# and A flat Minor. _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Wed Oct 24 21:08:57 2007 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Michael R Mattys) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 22:08:57 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB References: <6568A7509F5248339AF9C2EB443C7C51@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <01b101c816ac$03e319a0$0202a8c0@Laptop> Glad to hear some news on this, since I decided to go with PHP and its adodb data-abstraction layer add-on. I will use MySQL or SQLite for which this wrapper is used http://www.thecommon.net/2.html Michael R. Mattys MapPoint & Access Dev www.mattysconsulting.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 9:45 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB >I do not usually answer my own emails but... > > I must qualify my last comments as I was unaware of the product cost which > had me fumbling for my oxygen mask as soon as I saw it. > > Fortunately there are evaluation copies available. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:12 PM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering > that > its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the > speed of any .Net flavour. > > A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not impressed > with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was > required to write extensive notes in the code. > > His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: > http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ > > Jim > From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Oct 25 01:40:58 2007 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 23:40:58 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: <01b101c816ac$03e319a0$0202a8c0@Laptop> Message-ID: Hi Michael: That sounds like an excellent choice for a low cost development environment. Are you also planning to migrate to the Linux OS as well? Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael R Mattys Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 7:09 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Glad to hear some news on this, since I decided to go with PHP and its adodb data-abstraction layer add-on. I will use MySQL or SQLite for which this wrapper is used http://www.thecommon.net/2.html Michael R. Mattys MapPoint & Access Dev www.mattysconsulting.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 9:45 PM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB >I do not usually answer my own emails but... > > I must qualify my last comments as I was unaware of the product cost which > had me fumbling for my oxygen mask as soon as I saw it. > > Fortunately there are evaluation copies available. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:12 PM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering > that > its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the > speed of any .Net flavour. > > A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not impressed > with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was > required to write extensive notes in the code. > > His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: > http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ > > Jim > _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at users.mns.ru Thu Oct 25 01:48:08 2007 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 10:48:08 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: <6568A7509F5248339AF9C2EB443C7C51@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <000001c816d3$00905a70$6401a8c0@nant> <<< I was unaware of the product cost.... >>> Hi Jim. Yes, I have just checked the price - it looks unaffordable for small-/middle-size businesses. Yes, there is evaluation version but... I'd currently think that ASP.NET and C#/VB.NET(VS Express) + MS SQL 2005 Express/Access backend DB is the best ever available toolset for Web (and whatever else) real life business applications development... And they are free for download and use, aren't they?... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:46 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I do not usually answer my own emails but... I must qualify my last comments as I was unaware of the product cost which had me fumbling for my oxygen mask as soon as I saw it. Fortunately there are evaluation copies available. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:12 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering that its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the speed of any .Net flavour. A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not impressed with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was required to write extensive notes in the code. His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ Jim <<< tail of the message trimmed to preserve some cyberspace >>> From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Thu Oct 25 03:24:11 2007 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 04:24:11 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB References: <000001c816d3$00905a70$6401a8c0@nant> Message-ID: <000701c816e0$6c2aaa80$6b706c4c@jisshowsbs.local> Shamil ...yes, free!!! ...the express products value has been simply incredible for me ...I've yet to run into anything I could do with Access that I can't find a way to do with one or more of the express products ...and the amount/quality of code/support available on-line is every bit as good ...I still tend to model an app in Access first but I'm now starting to deliver in VS/SQL Server ...and the client sales are soooooo much easier in most cases. William ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shamil Salakhetdinov" To: Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 2:48 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > <<< > I was unaware of the product cost.... >>>> > Hi Jim. > > Yes, I have just checked the price - it looks unaffordable for > small-/middle-size businesses. Yes, there is evaluation version but... > > I'd currently think that ASP.NET and C#/VB.NET(VS Express) + MS SQL 2005 > Express/Access backend DB is the best ever available toolset for Web (and > whatever else) real life business applications development... > > And they are free for download and use, aren't they?... > > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:46 AM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > I do not usually answer my own emails but... > > I must qualify my last comments as I was unaware of the product cost which > had me fumbling for my oxygen mask as soon as I saw it. > > Fortunately there are evaluation copies available. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:12 PM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering > that > its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the > speed of any .Net flavour. > > A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not impressed > with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was > required to write extensive notes in the code. > > His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: > http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ > > Jim > > <<< tail of the message trimmed to preserve some cyberspace >>> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Oct 25 07:03:08 2007 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 14:03:08 +0200 Subject: [dba-VB] Browsing records (was: Renaming DBA-VB) Message-ID: Hi William Which control do you use for browsing records on forms? The default dataTableBindingNavigator? If so, have you managed to undock it so it can float? I have the GripStyle set to Visible, but the toolstrip is not to grip and move around. /gustav >>> wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com 25-10-2007 10:24 >>> Shamil ...yes, free!!! ...the express products value has been simply incredible for me ...I've yet to run into anything I could do with Access that I can't find a way to do with one or more of the express products ...and the amount/quality of code/support available on-line is every bit as good ...I still tend to model an app in Access first but I'm now starting to deliver in VS/SQL Server ...and the client sales are soooooo much easier in most cases. William ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shamil Salakhetdinov" To: Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 2:48 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > <<< > I was unaware of the product cost.... >>>> > Hi Jim. > > Yes, I have just checked the price - it looks unaffordable for > small-/middle-size businesses. Yes, there is evaluation version but... > > I'd currently think that ASP.NET and C#/VB.NET(VS Express) + MS SQL 2005 > Express/Access backend DB is the best ever available toolset for Web (and > whatever else) real life business applications development... > > And they are free for download and use, aren't they?... > > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:46 AM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > I do not usually answer my own emails but... > > I must qualify my last comments as I was unaware of the product cost which > had me fumbling for my oxygen mask as soon as I saw it. > > Fortunately there are evaluation copies available. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:12 PM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering > that > its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the > speed of any .Net flavour. > > A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not impressed > with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was > required to write extensive notes in the code. > > His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: > http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ > > Jim From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Thu Oct 25 07:15:07 2007 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Michael R Mattys) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 08:15:07 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB References: Message-ID: <01f701c81700$af43e3c0$0202a8c0@Laptop> Jim, I don't have plans to work with Linux yet, but I certainly would like to learn it. Michael R. Mattys MapPoint & Access Dev www.mattysconsulting.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence" To: Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 2:40 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > Hi Michael: > > That sounds like an excellent choice for a low cost development > environment. > Are you also planning to migrate to the Linux OS as well? > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael R Mattys > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 7:09 PM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > Glad to hear some news on this, since I decided to go with PHP > and its adodb data-abstraction layer add-on. > > I will use MySQL or SQLite for which this wrapper is used > http://www.thecommon.net/2.html > > Michael R. Mattys > MapPoint & Access Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim Lawrence" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 9:45 PM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > >>I do not usually answer my own emails but... >> >> I must qualify my last comments as I was unaware of the product cost >> which >> had me fumbling for my oxygen mask as soon as I saw it. >> >> Fortunately there are evaluation copies available. >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence >> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:12 PM >> To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB >> >> I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering >> that >> its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the >> speed of any .Net flavour. >> >> A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not >> impressed >> with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was >> required to write extensive notes in the code. >> >> His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: >> http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ >> >> Jim >> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at users.mns.ru Thu Oct 25 07:50:30 2007 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 16:50:30 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: <000701c816e0$6c2aaa80$6b706c4c@jisshowsbs.local> Message-ID: <000b01c81705$a040b650$6401a8c0@nant> Yes, William, And there are no hidden costs (?), are there? (I assume that MS Windows is the target platform of course...) And the move from VBA/VB6 to VB2005 (and C# 2.0) is usually smooth because there so many analogies between WinForms/ASP.Net and MS Access forms programming and because VB2005/C# 2.0 has all VBA/VB6 built-in functions implemented etc. ... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 12:24 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Shamil ...yes, free!!! ...the express products value has been simply incredible for me ...I've yet to run into anything I could do with Access that I can't find a way to do with one or more of the express products ...and the amount/quality of code/support available on-line is every bit as good ...I still tend to model an app in Access first but I'm now starting to deliver in VS/SQL Server ...and the client sales are soooooo much easier in most cases. William ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shamil Salakhetdinov" To: Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 2:48 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > <<< > I was unaware of the product cost.... >>>> > Hi Jim. > > Yes, I have just checked the price - it looks unaffordable for > small-/middle-size businesses. Yes, there is evaluation version but... > > I'd currently think that ASP.NET and C#/VB.NET(VS Express) + MS SQL 2005 > Express/Access backend DB is the best ever available toolset for Web (and > whatever else) real life business applications development... > > And they are free for download and use, aren't they?... > > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:46 AM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > I do not usually answer my own emails but... > > I must qualify my last comments as I was unaware of the product cost which > had me fumbling for my oxygen mask as soon as I saw it. > > Fortunately there are evaluation copies available. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:12 PM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering > that > its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the > speed of any .Net flavour. > > A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not impressed > with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was > required to write extensive notes in the code. > > His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: > http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ > > Jim > > <<< tail of the message trimmed to preserve some cyberspace >>> > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at users.mns.ru Thu Oct 25 07:58:47 2007 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 16:58:47 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Browsing records (was: Renaming DBA-VB) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001201c81706$c8593030$6401a8c0@nant> Hi Gustav, Just set Dock style to None and then you can freely move and place xBindingNavigator whenever you wanted to have it on a WinForm... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 4:03 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] Browsing records (was: Renaming DBA-VB) Hi William Which control do you use for browsing records on forms? The default dataTableBindingNavigator? If so, have you managed to undock it so it can float? I have the GripStyle set to Visible, but the toolstrip is not to grip and move around. /gustav >>> wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com 25-10-2007 10:24 >>> Shamil ...yes, free!!! ...the express products value has been simply incredible for me ...I've yet to run into anything I could do with Access that I can't find a way to do with one or more of the express products ...and the amount/quality of code/support available on-line is every bit as good ...I still tend to model an app in Access first but I'm now starting to deliver in VS/SQL Server ...and the client sales are soooooo much easier in most cases. William ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shamil Salakhetdinov" To: Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 2:48 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > <<< > I was unaware of the product cost.... >>>> > Hi Jim. > > Yes, I have just checked the price - it looks unaffordable for > small-/middle-size businesses. Yes, there is evaluation version but... > > I'd currently think that ASP.NET and C#/VB.NET(VS Express) + MS SQL 2005 > Express/Access backend DB is the best ever available toolset for Web (and > whatever else) real life business applications development... > > And they are free for download and use, aren't they?... > > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:46 AM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > I do not usually answer my own emails but... > > I must qualify my last comments as I was unaware of the product cost which > had me fumbling for my oxygen mask as soon as I saw it. > > Fortunately there are evaluation copies available. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:12 PM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering > that > its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the > speed of any .Net flavour. > > A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not impressed > with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was > required to write extensive notes in the code. > > His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: > http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ > > Jim _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Oct 25 08:21:29 2007 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 15:21:29 +0200 Subject: [dba-VB] Browsing records (was: Renaming DBA-VB) Message-ID: Hi Shamil Yes, but in design mode only. I thought, having the dotted grip farmost left visible, the user could drag the control around with the mouse- as you can do with a toolbar in Access? /gustav >>> shamil at users.mns.ru 25-10-2007 14:58 >>> Hi Gustav, Just set Dock style to None and then you can freely move and place xBindingNavigator whenever you wanted to have it on a WinForm... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 4:03 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] Browsing records (was: Renaming DBA-VB) Hi William Which control do you use for browsing records on forms? The default dataTableBindingNavigator? If so, have you managed to undock it so it can float? I have the GripStyle set to Visible, but the toolstrip is not to grip and move around. /gustav From shamil at users.mns.ru Thu Oct 25 09:14:50 2007 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 18:14:50 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Browsing records (was: Renaming DBA-VB) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001101c81711$6926c310$6401a8c0@nant> Hi Gustav, I do not know about this feature - I'd expect for that kind of stuff you'll need to purchase third-party controls as e.g. http://www.divil.co.uk/net/controls/sandribbon/ ... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:21 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Browsing records (was: Renaming DBA-VB) Hi Shamil Yes, but in design mode only. I thought, having the dotted grip farmost left visible, the user could drag the control around with the mouse- as you can do with a toolbar in Access? /gustav >>> shamil at users.mns.ru 25-10-2007 14:58 >>> Hi Gustav, Just set Dock style to None and then you can freely move and place xBindingNavigator whenever you wanted to have it on a WinForm... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 4:03 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] Browsing records (was: Renaming DBA-VB) Hi William Which control do you use for browsing records on forms? The default dataTableBindingNavigator? If so, have you managed to undock it so it can float? I have the GripStyle set to Visible, but the toolstrip is not to grip and move around. /gustav _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Oct 25 10:05:13 2007 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 17:05:13 +0200 Subject: [dba-VB] Browsing records (was: Renaming DBA-VB) Message-ID: Hi Shamil That I could do, but I just wondered what the grip is for if the control cannot be moved around? The control as is, is fine for most tasks. /gustav >>> shamil at users.mns.ru 25-10-2007 16:14 >>> Hi Gustav, I do not know about this feature - I'd expect for that kind of stuff you'll need to purchase third-party controls as e.g. http://www.divil.co.uk/net/controls/sandribbon/ ... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:21 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Browsing records (was: Renaming DBA-VB) Hi Shamil Yes, but in design mode only. I thought, having the dotted grip farmost left visible, the user could drag the control around with the mouse- as you can do with a toolbar in Access? /gustav >>> shamil at users.mns.ru 25-10-2007 14:58 >>> Hi Gustav, Just set Dock style to None and then you can freely move and place xBindingNavigator whenever you wanted to have it on a WinForm... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 4:03 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] Browsing records (was: Renaming DBA-VB) Hi William Which control do you use for browsing records on forms? The default dataTableBindingNavigator? If so, have you managed to undock it so it can float? I have the GripStyle set to Visible, but the toolstrip is not to grip and move around. /gustav From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Thu Oct 25 11:57:55 2007 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 12:57:55 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB References: <000b01c81705$a040b650$6401a8c0@nant> Message-ID: <002b01c81728$30c1ff50$6b706c4c@jisshowsbs.local> ...I don't see any hidden costs in my work as yet ...I've converted a mid sized Access app for a client to a browser based one running on his intranet with .net3 and VWDE ...the open source Ajax Control Tool Kit along with MS's control extension abilities and SSE go together like peanutbutter and jelly ...once you have the pieces in place and have worked through a few samples, its almost as easy as Access ...but you get really good speed from a server based app with the advantages of SQL Server as well. ...granted that I've not ventured far from the beaten path as you and Gustav are wont to do but then I'm still wondering why I waited so long, eh ...in all honesty I'd still be plugging away at vb if it weren't for all the sample code out there pulished in both vb and c# making it apparent that even a hack like me could write reasonably acceptable C# code. ...and you are definitely right about the similarities in writing code, designing forms, etc ...dotnet2 and above has so much built into the framework that one of the major advantages of Access, at least it always was to me, simply no longer applies ...once you sync your brain with the object inheritence paradyme, I'm convinced that I'm actually writing less code and getting more from it. ...and every line, every form, every table are all free, MS tool based ...and they still get all the pros and cons of being part of the MS software stable ...my only concern right now is that MS will back off the express product line because there are so many like me who no longer need to invest thousands in their development tools every year ...with the client I mentioned above, the rationale behind standardizing on MS Office no longer exists and converting to one of the Open Office products is a real possibility ...that's a threat to the MS bread & butter. William ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shamil Salakhetdinov" To: Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 8:50 AM Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > Yes, William, > > And there are no hidden costs (?), are there? (I assume that MS Windows is > the target platform of course...) > > And the move from VBA/VB6 to VB2005 (and C# 2.0) is usually smooth because > there so many analogies between WinForms/ASP.Net and MS Access forms > programming and because VB2005/C# 2.0 has all VBA/VB6 built-in functions > implemented etc. ... > > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman > Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 12:24 PM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > Shamil > > ...yes, free!!! ...the express products value has been simply incredible > for > > me ...I've yet to run into anything I could do with Access that I can't > find > > a way to do with one or more of the express products ...and the > amount/quality of code/support available on-line is every bit as good ...I > still tend to model an app in Access first but I'm now starting to deliver > in VS/SQL Server ...and the client sales are soooooo much easier in most > cases. > > William > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Shamil Salakhetdinov" > To: > Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 2:48 AM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > >> <<< >> I was unaware of the product cost.... >>>>> >> Hi Jim. >> >> Yes, I have just checked the price - it looks unaffordable for >> small-/middle-size businesses. Yes, there is evaluation version but... >> >> I'd currently think that ASP.NET and C#/VB.NET(VS Express) + MS SQL 2005 >> Express/Access backend DB is the best ever available toolset for Web (and >> whatever else) real life business applications development... >> >> And they are free for download and use, aren't they?... >> >> >> -- >> Shamil >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence >> Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:46 AM >> To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB >> >> I do not usually answer my own emails but... >> >> I must qualify my last comments as I was unaware of the product cost >> which >> had me fumbling for my oxygen mask as soon as I saw it. >> >> Fortunately there are evaluation copies available. >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence >> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:12 PM >> To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB >> >> I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering >> that >> its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the >> speed of any .Net flavour. >> >> A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not >> impressed >> with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was >> required to write extensive notes in the code. >> >> His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: >> http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ >> >> Jim >> >> <<< tail of the message trimmed to preserve some cyberspace >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-VB mailing list >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Thu Oct 25 12:00:10 2007 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 13:00:10 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Browsing records (was: Renaming DBA-VB) References: Message-ID: <002f01c81728$81133730$6b706c4c@jisshowsbs.local> Gustav ...sorry, hadn't even thought of trying that yet ...still getting my feet wet here ...the soles, eh :) William ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 8:03 AM Subject: [dba-VB] Browsing records (was: Renaming DBA-VB) > Hi William > > Which control do you use for browsing records on forms? The default > dataTableBindingNavigator? > If so, have you managed to undock it so it can float? I have the GripStyle > set to Visible, but the toolstrip is not to grip and move around. > > /gustav > >>>> wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com 25-10-2007 10:24 >>> > Shamil > > ...yes, free!!! ...the express products value has been simply incredible > for > me ...I've yet to run into anything I could do with Access that I can't > find > a way to do with one or more of the express products ...and the > amount/quality of code/support available on-line is every bit as good ...I > still tend to model an app in Access first but I'm now starting to deliver > in VS/SQL Server ...and the client sales are soooooo much easier in most > cases. > > William > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Shamil Salakhetdinov" > To: > Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 2:48 AM > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB > > >> <<< >> I was unaware of the product cost.... >>>>> >> Hi Jim. >> >> Yes, I have just checked the price - it looks unaffordable for >> small-/middle-size businesses. Yes, there is evaluation version but... >> >> I'd currently think that ASP.NET and C#/VB.NET(VS Express) + MS SQL 2005 >> Express/Access backend DB is the best ever available toolset for Web (and >> whatever else) real life business applications development... >> >> And they are free for download and use, aren't they?... >> >> >> -- >> Shamil >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence >> Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:46 AM >> To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB >> >> I do not usually answer my own emails but... >> >> I must qualify my last comments as I was unaware of the product cost >> which >> had me fumbling for my oxygen mask as soon as I saw it. >> >> Fortunately there are evaluation copies available. >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence >> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:12 PM >> To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB >> >> I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering >> that >> its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the >> speed of any .Net flavour. >> >> A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not >> impressed >> with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was >> required to write extensive notes in the code. >> >> His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: >> http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ >> >> Jim > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Oct 25 12:18:08 2007 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 10:18:08 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: <000001c816d3$00905a70$6401a8c0@nant> Message-ID: <399F05E3795142BAB07BC21F4B78795B@creativesystemdesigns.com> Shamil... you are correct in all that. This friend who is strongly recommending Eiffel is planning on leaving his current job soon and as his wife now has an excellent job at the college and he has decided to go freelance. He wants to work with me on projects and is planning on buying a full licensed version.... To make a short story long I may be becoming an Eiffel guru whether I want to or not. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 11:48 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB <<< I was unaware of the product cost.... >>> Hi Jim. Yes, I have just checked the price - it looks unaffordable for small-/middle-size businesses. Yes, there is evaluation version but... I'd currently think that ASP.NET and C#/VB.NET(VS Express) + MS SQL 2005 Express/Access backend DB is the best ever available toolset for Web (and whatever else) real life business applications development... And they are free for download and use, aren't they?... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:46 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I do not usually answer my own emails but... I must qualify my last comments as I was unaware of the product cost which had me fumbling for my oxygen mask as soon as I saw it. Fortunately there are evaluation copies available. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:12 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering that its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the speed of any .Net flavour. A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not impressed with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was required to write extensive notes in the code. His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ Jim <<< tail of the message trimmed to preserve some cyberspace >>> _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Oct 25 12:18:02 2007 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 19:18:02 +0200 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Message-ID: Hi Jim Interesting. Perhaps your friend could tell us briefly about the highlights of Eiffel? Why is it worth the money? /gustav >>> accessd at shaw.ca 25-10-2007 19:18 >>> Shamil... you are correct in all that. This friend who is strongly recommending Eiffel is planning on leaving his current job soon and as his wife now has an excellent job at the college and he has decided to go freelance. He wants to work with me on projects and is planning on buying a full licensed version.... To make a short story long I may be becoming an Eiffel guru whether I want to or not. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 11:48 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB <<< I was unaware of the product cost.... >>> Hi Jim. Yes, I have just checked the price - it looks unaffordable for small-/middle-size businesses. Yes, there is evaluation version but... I'd currently think that ASP.NET and C#/VB.NET(VS Express) + MS SQL 2005 Express/Access backend DB is the best ever available toolset for Web (and whatever else) real life business applications development... And they are free for download and use, aren't they?... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:46 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I do not usually answer my own emails but... I must qualify my last comments as I was unaware of the product cost which had me fumbling for my oxygen mask as soon as I saw it. Fortunately there are evaluation copies available. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:12 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering that its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the speed of any .Net flavour. A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not impressed with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was required to write extensive notes in the code. His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ Jim From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Oct 25 12:44:49 2007 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 10:44:49 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Gustav: I am not qualified to give comment of the Eiffel product myself as all my knowledge is second hand but I have passed your query on to my friend and when he responds I will post his email here. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 10:18 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Hi Jim Interesting. Perhaps your friend could tell us briefly about the highlights of Eiffel? Why is it worth the money? /gustav >>> accessd at shaw.ca 25-10-2007 19:18 >>> Shamil... you are correct in all that. This friend who is strongly recommending Eiffel is planning on leaving his current job soon and as his wife now has an excellent job at the college and he has decided to go freelance. He wants to work with me on projects and is planning on buying a full licensed version.... To make a short story long I may be becoming an Eiffel guru whether I want to or not. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 11:48 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB <<< I was unaware of the product cost.... >>> Hi Jim. Yes, I have just checked the price - it looks unaffordable for small-/middle-size businesses. Yes, there is evaluation version but... I'd currently think that ASP.NET and C#/VB.NET(VS Express) + MS SQL 2005 Express/Access backend DB is the best ever available toolset for Web (and whatever else) real life business applications development... And they are free for download and use, aren't they?... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:46 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I do not usually answer my own emails but... I must qualify my last comments as I was unaware of the product cost which had me fumbling for my oxygen mask as soon as I saw it. Fortunately there are evaluation copies available. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:12 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering that its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the speed of any .Net flavour. A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not impressed with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was required to write extensive notes in the code. His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ Jim _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at users.mns.ru Thu Oct 25 13:48:39 2007 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 22:48:39 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: <399F05E3795142BAB07BC21F4B78795B@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <000001c81737$a8c4f7a0$6401a8c0@nant> Hi Jim, Yes, Eiffel looks like a very advanced programming language but going freelance "armored" with Eiffel doesn't this sound very ambitious?... I mean risky... Or your friend has a good customer base who will for sure supply him and you with Eiffel based software development for many years ahead? Then you should be safe... I remember quite some time ago I did develop software using truly 4G OO DataFlex programming language: that was a real fun to program but then I had found that MS Access 1.1 allows me to achieve better results in shorter time but using "ugly" VBA coding - and I switched to MS Access 1.1 VBA to make money for living, better money than truly 4G OO DataFlex allowed me to make before... I mean C# and VB.NET with every new version are obviously acquiring the best features of the other modern state-of-the-art programming languages as e.g. Eiffel is: in 5(?) years it will be not easy to distinguish C# from Eiffel and VB.Net from Ruby (not by their syntax but by their expressive power)... And I wonder what currently Eiffel can give for real business applications software development, which can't be done using C#/VB.NET maybe a little bit less effective but just a little bit?... Yes, as Gustav, I'd be also very interested to hear your friend's opinion why he is going to "bet on Eiffel"?... Thanks. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 9:18 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Shamil... you are correct in all that. This friend who is strongly recommending Eiffel is planning on leaving his current job soon and as his wife now has an excellent job at the college and he has decided to go freelance. He wants to work with me on projects and is planning on buying a full licensed version.... To make a short story long I may be becoming an Eiffel guru whether I want to or not. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 11:48 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB <<< I was unaware of the product cost.... >>> Hi Jim. Yes, I have just checked the price - it looks unaffordable for small-/middle-size businesses. Yes, there is evaluation version but... I'd currently think that ASP.NET and C#/VB.NET(VS Express) + MS SQL 2005 Express/Access backend DB is the best ever available toolset for Web (and whatever else) real life business applications development... And they are free for download and use, aren't they?... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:46 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I do not usually answer my own emails but... I must qualify my last comments as I was unaware of the product cost which had me fumbling for my oxygen mask as soon as I saw it. Fortunately there are evaluation copies available. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:12 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering that its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the speed of any .Net flavour. A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not impressed with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was required to write extensive notes in the code. His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ Jim <<< tail of the message trimmed to preserve some cyberspace >>> _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at users.mns.ru Thu Oct 25 14:44:40 2007 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 23:44:40 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Using the ASP.NET 2.0 membership, roles etc. providers in .NET console and WinForms applicatons... Message-ID: <000001c8173f$7c0db230$6401a8c0@nant> Hi All, Did anybody use the subject feature? If not here is the good news: <<< Using the ASP.NET membership provider in a Windows forms application http://www.theproblemsolver.nl/usingthemembershipproviderinwinforms.htm >>> But even better news is that one can use section in app.config file to define ASP.NET membership, roles (etc.? I did test the first tow only because I need them currently) providers by thus having a centralized (MS SQL) store to keep applications' membership, roles etc. "standard asp.net way" and to use them in all .NET based not only asp.net applications... I didn't find any article describing this useful feature - did you? Thanks. -- Shamil From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Oct 25 15:32:20 2007 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 13:32:20 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Gustav: As promised here is a reply from my friend: Hi, Jim: The ISE Eiffel website is www.eiffel.com. Note that they now have a dual licensing model for EiffelStudio (the stand-alone workbench), so one can use it free for open source software. There is Eiffel for ASP.net which is *free* - we need to check this out! There is also a .net plugin for Visual Studio (EiffelEnvision) that is not too pricey ($US 1799). Why would we be interested in this beast? - The enterprise versions include visual round-trip engineering tools - The language is very high level, so you can get a lot of mileage with very little code - It works with .net and stand-alone on several platforms - It has design-by-contract, which really helps to reduce bugs - It has simple and powerful multiple inheritance and genericity (none of the "interface" crap that passes for o-o in most other languages) - It has delayed calls (aka "closures") - It has a powerful reflection api - It is really easy to learn because it is so straightforward and logical - It has built-in doc that blows away the competition After coding in Java for a year, I am more than ready to jump ship to Eiffel myself! I would recommend also checking out Gnu SmartEiffel - see http://smarteiffel.loria.fr/index.html Another good link: www.eiffelroom.com It has articles, blogs etc on eiffel. Here is an article from there that helps to show its amazing power: http://www.eiffelroom.com/article/fun_with_generics Best regards, Yigal Hope you find this useful. If you need further details that is also easy to provide. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 10:45 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Hi Gustav: I am not qualified to give comment of the Eiffel product myself as all my knowledge is second hand but I have passed your query on to my friend and when he responds I will post his email here. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 10:18 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Hi Jim Interesting. Perhaps your friend could tell us briefly about the highlights of Eiffel? Why is it worth the money? /gustav >>> accessd at shaw.ca 25-10-2007 19:18 >>> Shamil... you are correct in all that. This friend who is strongly recommending Eiffel is planning on leaving his current job soon and as his wife now has an excellent job at the college and he has decided to go freelance. He wants to work with me on projects and is planning on buying a full licensed version.... To make a short story long I may be becoming an Eiffel guru whether I want to or not. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 11:48 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB <<< I was unaware of the product cost.... >>> Hi Jim. Yes, I have just checked the price - it looks unaffordable for small-/middle-size businesses. Yes, there is evaluation version but... I'd currently think that ASP.NET and C#/VB.NET(VS Express) + MS SQL 2005 Express/Access backend DB is the best ever available toolset for Web (and whatever else) real life business applications development... And they are free for download and use, aren't they?... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:46 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I do not usually answer my own emails but... I must qualify my last comments as I was unaware of the product cost which had me fumbling for my oxygen mask as soon as I saw it. Fortunately there are evaluation copies available. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:12 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering that its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the speed of any .Net flavour. A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not impressed with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was required to write extensive notes in the code. His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ Jim _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Oct 25 15:47:20 2007 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 13:47:20 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Using the ASP.NET 2.0 membership, roles etc. providers in .NET console and WinForms applicatons... In-Reply-To: <000001c8173f$7c0db230$6401a8c0@nant> Message-ID: Thanks Shamil for that piece of information. I was planning for it but sure where to look. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 12:45 PM To: 'Access-D - VB' Subject: [dba-VB] Using the ASP.NET 2.0 membership,roles etc. providers in .NET console and WinForms applicatons... Hi All, Did anybody use the subject feature? If not here is the good news: <<< Using the ASP.NET membership provider in a Windows forms application http://www.theproblemsolver.nl/usingthemembershipproviderinwinforms.htm >>> But even better news is that one can use section in app.config file to define ASP.NET membership, roles (etc.? I did test the first tow only because I need them currently) providers by thus having a centralized (MS SQL) store to keep applications' membership, roles etc. "standard asp.net way" and to use them in all .NET based not only asp.net applications... I didn't find any article describing this useful feature - did you? Thanks. -- Shamil _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From robert at webedb.com Thu Oct 25 15:53:56 2007 From: robert at webedb.com (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 15:53:56 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] Using the ASP.NET 2.0 membership, roles etc. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200710252056.l9PKuphV029092@databaseadvisors.com> The roles/membership stuff is currently available only in ASP.net pages. But, in VS 2008, it will also be available in WinForm/Smart Client applications. Robert At 03:42 PM 10/25/2007, you wrote: >Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 23:44:40 +0400 >From: "Shamil Salakhetdinov" >Subject: [dba-VB] Using the ASP.NET 2.0 membership, roles etc. > providers in .NET console and WinForms applicatons... >To: "'Access-D - VB'" >Message-ID: <000001c8173f$7c0db230$6401a8c0 at nant> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > >Hi All, > >Did anybody use the subject feature? > >If not here is the good news: > ><<< >Using the ASP.NET membership provider in a Windows forms application >http://www.theproblemsolver.nl/usingthemembershipproviderinwinforms.htm > >>> > >But even better news is that one can use section in app.config >file to define ASP.NET membership, roles (etc.? I did test the first tow >only because I need them currently) providers by thus having a centralized >(MS SQL) store to keep applications' membership, roles etc. "standard >asp.net way" and to use them in all .NET based not only asp.net >applications... > >I didn't find any article describing this useful feature - did you? > >Thanks. > >-- From shamil at users.mns.ru Thu Oct 25 16:21:53 2007 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 01:21:53 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Using the ASP.NET 2.0 membership, roles etc. In-Reply-To: <200710252056.l9PKuphV029092@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <000101c8174d$1066c3b0$6401a8c0@nant> Hi Robert, The below test C# code seems to work well in VS2005 console application with app.config defining system.web section with membership and role providers referring MS SQL database defined in connectionStrings section: //+ user public class TestRolesAndUsersInConsoleApp { public static void Test() { try { //' Creating a new user string userName = "user1"; string userName2 = "user2"; string password = "test"; string email = "test at mail.ru"; string passwordQuestion = "Password question"; string passwordQuestionAnswer = "test"; string roleName = "Developers"; System.Web.Security.MembershipUser user = null; MembershipCreateStatus status; if (System.Web.Security.Membership.ValidateUser(userName, password)) { System.Web.Security.Membership.DeleteUser(userName, true); Console.WriteLine("User " + userName + " - deleted."); } if (System.Web.Security.Membership.ValidateUser(userName2, password)) { System.Web.Security.Membership.DeleteUser(userName2, true); Console.WriteLine("User " + userName2 + " - deleted."); } if (System.Web.Security.Roles.RoleExists(roleName)) { System.Web.Security.Roles.DeleteRole(roleName); Console.WriteLine("Role " + roleName + " - deleted."); } user = System.Web.Security.Membership.CreateUser(userName, password, email, passwordQuestion, passwordQuestionAnswer, true, out status); if (status == MembershipCreateStatus.Success) { int aa = 1; } //' Validate a username/passworduserName if (System.Web.Security.Membership.ValidateUser(userName, password)) Console.WriteLine(userName + " - User validated. " + status.ToString() ); else Console.WriteLine(userName + " - User invalid! "); //' Create a new Developer role. //' Add the to the app.config for this to work if (!System.Web.Security.Roles.RoleExists(roleName)) { System.Web.Security.Roles.CreateRole(roleName); } //' Add a new role to a known user. if (!System.Web.Security.Roles.IsUserInRole(userName, roleName)) { System.Web.Security.Roles.AddUserToRole(userName, roleName); } if (!System.Web.Security.Roles.IsUserInRole(userName, roleName)) { Console.WriteLine(userName + " added to role " + roleName); System.Web.Security.Roles.AddUserToRole(userName, roleName); } //' Create a second user with only username/password //' Add the element to the app.config first user = System.Web.Security.Membership.GetUser(userName2); if (user == null) { user = System.Web.Security.Membership.CreateUser(userName2, password); System.Web.Security.Roles.AddUserToRole(userName2, roleName); Console.WriteLine("Created user: " + user.UserName); } //' Set the current application principal information to a known user System.Security.Principal.GenericIdentity identity; RolePrincipal principal; user = System.Web.Security.Membership.GetUser(userName); identity = new System.Security.Principal.GenericIdentity(user.UserName); principal = new System.Web.Security.RolePrincipal(identity); System.Threading.Thread.CurrentPrincipal = principal; //' Check if the current principal is in a specific role Console.Write(System.Threading.Thread.CurrentPrincipal.Identity.Name); if (System.Web.Security.Roles.IsUserInRole(roleName)) Console.WriteLine(" Is a developer."); else Console.WriteLine(" Doesn't write code."); //' Set the current application principal information to another known user user = System.Web.Security.Membership.GetUser(userName2); identity = new GenericIdentity(user.UserName); principal = new RolePrincipal(identity); System.Threading.Thread.CurrentPrincipal = principal; //' Use the principal to check for role information Console.Write(System.Threading.Thread.CurrentPrincipal.Identity.Name); if (System.Threading.Thread.CurrentPrincipal.IsInRole(roleName)) Console.WriteLine(" is a developer."); else Console.WriteLine(" doesn't write code."); //+ delete if (System.Web.Security.Membership.ValidateUser(userName, password)) { System.Web.Security.Membership.DeleteUser(userName, true); Console.WriteLine("User " + userName + " - deleted."); } if (System.Web.Security.Membership.ValidateUser(userName2, password)) { System.Web.Security.Membership.DeleteUser(userName2, true); Console.WriteLine("User " + userName2 + " - deleted."); } if (System.Web.Security.Roles.RoleExists(roleName)) { System.Web.Security.Roles.DeleteRole(roleName); Console.WriteLine("Role " + roleName + " - deleted."); } //- delete Console.ReadLine(); } catch (Exception ex) { Console.WriteLine(ex.Message); } } } //- user -- Shamil P.S. app.config for console app's test class above looks like that (watch line wraps): -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Stewart Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 12:54 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Using the ASP.NET 2.0 membership, roles etc. The roles/membership stuff is currently available only in ASP.net pages. But, in VS 2008, it will also be available in WinForm/Smart Client applications. Robert <<< tail skipped >>> From shamil at users.mns.ru Thu Oct 25 16:56:44 2007 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 01:56:44 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000501c81751$ef7d3850$6401a8c0@nant> <<< - It has delayed calls (aka "closures") >>> Hi Jim, What are these "delayed calls"? - I'm wondering what real projects development tasks they help to solve effectively? I'm nor arguing with you and your friend nor am I trying to start a discussion C# vs. Eiffel - I'm just wondering what are these attractive Eiffel features your friend mentioned, which I'm unaware about, how useful they are in business applications development and how can one simulate them by using e.g. C# or C++/CLI.... "Multiple inheritance" and genericity - well, C# doesn't have multiple inheritance but C# has Generics - aren't they enough for most of the real business tasks programming? If not - then for rhat kind of tasks one can use C++/CLI with all its power of multiple inheritance and C++ templates etc. ? (C++/CLI is not free but it's available in e.g. MS Empower program package, which is not that expensive...) I'd think that "design-by-contract" will not help to reduce that much the bugs without good (unit) test coverage but when good test coverage exists what is the use of "design-by-contract"? "built-in doc that blows away the competition" - what is that? "visual round-trip engineering tools" - what are that? Forward-/reverse-engineering for UML(?) object diagrams... <<< Here is an article from there that helps to show its amazing power: http://www.eiffelroom.com/article/fun_with_generics >>> Jim, C# has Generics with static casting, when one will want to do something more tricky they can well generate and compile and bind C# code and classes and objects instances on-the-fly... ...but IMO this referred article titled "Fun with Generics" doesn't give any real life applications samples where dynamic Generics casting existing in Eiffel (and lacking in C# and Java) - where this dynamic Generics casting is really needed? Does your friend have such samples, which can be looked through? ... Thanks. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 12:32 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Hi Gustav: As promised here is a reply from my friend: Hi, Jim: The ISE Eiffel website is www.eiffel.com. Note that they now have a dual licensing model for EiffelStudio (the stand-alone workbench), so one can use it free for open source software. There is Eiffel for ASP.net which is *free* - we need to check this out! There is also a .net plugin for Visual Studio (EiffelEnvision) that is not too pricey ($US 1799). Why would we be interested in this beast? - The enterprise versions include visual round-trip engineering tools - The language is very high level, so you can get a lot of mileage with very little code - It works with .net and stand-alone on several platforms - It has design-by-contract, which really helps to reduce bugs - It has simple and powerful multiple inheritance and genericity (none of the "interface" crap that passes for o-o in most other languages) - It has delayed calls (aka "closures") - It has a powerful reflection api - It is really easy to learn because it is so straightforward and logical - It has built-in doc that blows away the competition After coding in Java for a year, I am more than ready to jump ship to Eiffel myself! I would recommend also checking out Gnu SmartEiffel - see http://smarteiffel.loria.fr/index.html Another good link: www.eiffelroom.com It has articles, blogs etc on eiffel. Here is an article from there that helps to show its amazing power: http://www.eiffelroom.com/article/fun_with_generics Best regards, Yigal Hope you find this useful. If you need further details that is also easy to provide. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 10:45 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Hi Gustav: I am not qualified to give comment of the Eiffel product myself as all my knowledge is second hand but I have passed your query on to my friend and when he responds I will post his email here. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 10:18 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Hi Jim Interesting. Perhaps your friend could tell us briefly about the highlights of Eiffel? Why is it worth the money? /gustav >>> accessd at shaw.ca 25-10-2007 19:18 >>> Shamil... you are correct in all that. This friend who is strongly recommending Eiffel is planning on leaving his current job soon and as his wife now has an excellent job at the college and he has decided to go freelance. He wants to work with me on projects and is planning on buying a full licensed version.... To make a short story long I may be becoming an Eiffel guru whether I want to or not. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 11:48 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB <<< I was unaware of the product cost.... >>> Hi Jim. Yes, I have just checked the price - it looks unaffordable for small-/middle-size businesses. Yes, there is evaluation version but... I'd currently think that ASP.NET and C#/VB.NET(VS Express) + MS SQL 2005 Express/Access backend DB is the best ever available toolset for Web (and whatever else) real life business applications development... And they are free for download and use, aren't they?... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:46 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I do not usually answer my own emails but... I must qualify my last comments as I was unaware of the product cost which had me fumbling for my oxygen mask as soon as I saw it. Fortunately there are evaluation copies available. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:12 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering that its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the speed of any .Net flavour. A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not impressed with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was required to write extensive notes in the code. His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ Jim _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Oct 26 00:28:54 2007 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 22:28:54 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: <000501c81751$ef7d3850$6401a8c0@nant> Message-ID: <3AFD7B393DB846058FE4CB0DD02A02F4@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Shamil: Comments and replies from my friend and myself are provided inline. >What are these "delayed calls"? - I'm wondering what real projects >development tasks they help to solve effectively? C# 2.0 has these - they are called "anonymous delegates". Most modern languages now have them in one form or another. I recommend googling for "closures in " and just reading about them... (My comment: it is like an enhanced call-back.) >I'm not arguing with you and your friend nor am I trying to start a >discussion C# vs. Eiffel - I'm just wondering what are these attractive >Eiffel features your friend mentioned, which I'm unaware about, how useful >they are in business applications development and how can one simulate them >by using e.g. C# or C++/CLI.... Let's face it - anything you can do in Eiffel can also be done effectively in just about any current language. For me, it comes down to one simple thing: Eiffel provides a more direct path from the concept to the implementation. Take a look at www.eiffel.com and check out the various blurbs and then download the free version and try it out ;0) >"Multiple inheritance" and genericity - well, C# doesn't have multiple >inheritance but C# has Generics - aren't they enough for most of the real >business tasks programming? If not - then for that kind of tasks one can >use C++/CLI with all its power of multiple inheritance and C++ templates >etc. ? >(C++/CLI is not free but it's available in e.g. MS Empower program package, >which is not that expensive...) >I'd think that "design-by-contract" will not help to reduce that much the >bugs without good (unit) test coverage but when good test coverage exists >what is the use of "design-by-contract"? I hear a lot of talk about contracts in the Java community, but the language offers almost zero support for it. Contracts can change the way you think about the code, and are especially useful for doing incremental development. >"built-in doc that blows away the competition" - what is that? For instance, there is the "flat" view of a class, that shows *all* the attributes and methods in one place; each is annotated with the class from which it was inherited. Contrast that with the more common doc, where you have to go on a treasure hunt to figure out all the methods etc, and what was inherited from where. >"visual round-trip engineering tools" - what are that? Again, similar stuff exists for other languages. Eiffel has a tool that lets you diagram your system and then it will build the skeleton for you. Conversely, you can create the diagram from existing code; hence "round-trip". >Forward-/reverse-engineering for UML(?) object diagrams... Not sure what UML <--> Eiffel tools exist.. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 2:57 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB <<< - It has delayed calls (aka "closures") >>> Hi Jim, What are these "delayed calls"? - I'm wondering what real projects development tasks they help to solve effectively? I'm nor arguing with you and your friend nor am I trying to start a discussion C# vs. Eiffel - I'm just wondering what are these attractive Eiffel features your friend mentioned, which I'm unaware about, how useful they are in business applications development and how can one simulate them by using e.g. C# or C++/CLI.... "Multiple inheritance" and genericity - well, C# doesn't have multiple inheritance but C# has Generics - aren't they enough for most of the real business tasks programming? If not - then for rhat kind of tasks one can use C++/CLI with all its power of multiple inheritance and C++ templates etc. ? (C++/CLI is not free but it's available in e.g. MS Empower program package, which is not that expensive...) I'd think that "design-by-contract" will not help to reduce that much the bugs without good (unit) test coverage but when good test coverage exists what is the use of "design-by-contract"? "built-in doc that blows away the competition" - what is that? "visual round-trip engineering tools" - what are that? Forward-/reverse-engineering for UML(?) object diagrams... <<< Here is an article from there that helps to show its amazing power: http://www.eiffelroom.com/article/fun_with_generics >>> Jim, C# has Generics with static casting, when one will want to do something more tricky they can well generate and compile and bind C# code and classes and objects instances on-the-fly... ...but IMO this referred article titled "Fun with Generics" doesn't give any real life applications samples where dynamic Generics casting existing in Eiffel (and lacking in C# and Java) - where this dynamic Generics casting is really needed? Does your friend have such samples, which can be looked through? ... Thanks. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 12:32 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Hi Gustav: As promised here is a reply from my friend: Hi, Jim: The ISE Eiffel website is www.eiffel.com. Note that they now have a dual licensing model for EiffelStudio (the stand-alone workbench), so one can use it free for open source software. There is Eiffel for ASP.net which is *free* - we need to check this out! There is also a .net plugin for Visual Studio (EiffelEnvision) that is not too pricey ($US 1799). Why would we be interested in this beast? - The enterprise versions include visual round-trip engineering tools - The language is very high level, so you can get a lot of mileage with very little code - It works with .net and stand-alone on several platforms - It has design-by-contract, which really helps to reduce bugs - It has simple and powerful multiple inheritance and genericity (none of the "interface" crap that passes for o-o in most other languages) - It has delayed calls (aka "closures") - It has a powerful reflection api - It is really easy to learn because it is so straightforward and logical - It has built-in doc that blows away the competition After coding in Java for a year, I am more than ready to jump ship to Eiffel myself! I would recommend also checking out Gnu SmartEiffel - see http://smarteiffel.loria.fr/index.html Another good link: www.eiffelroom.com It has articles, blogs etc on eiffel. Here is an article from there that helps to show its amazing power: http://www.eiffelroom.com/article/fun_with_generics Best regards, Yigal Hope you find this useful. If you need further details that is also easy to provide. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 10:45 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Hi Gustav: I am not qualified to give comment of the Eiffel product myself as all my knowledge is second hand but I have passed your query on to my friend and when he responds I will post his email here. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 10:18 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Hi Jim Interesting. Perhaps your friend could tell us briefly about the highlights of Eiffel? Why is it worth the money? /gustav >>> accessd at shaw.ca 25-10-2007 19:18 >>> Shamil... you are correct in all that. This friend who is strongly recommending Eiffel is planning on leaving his current job soon and as his wife now has an excellent job at the college and he has decided to go freelance. He wants to work with me on projects and is planning on buying a full licensed version.... To make a short story long I may be becoming an Eiffel guru whether I want to or not. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 11:48 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB <<< I was unaware of the product cost.... >>> Hi Jim. Yes, I have just checked the price - it looks unaffordable for small-/middle-size businesses. Yes, there is evaluation version but... I'd currently think that ASP.NET and C#/VB.NET(VS Express) + MS SQL 2005 Express/Access backend DB is the best ever available toolset for Web (and whatever else) real life business applications development... And they are free for download and use, aren't they?... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:46 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I do not usually answer my own emails but... I must qualify my last comments as I was unaware of the product cost which had me fumbling for my oxygen mask as soon as I saw it. Fortunately there are evaluation copies available. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:12 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering that its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the speed of any .Net flavour. A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not impressed with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was required to write extensive notes in the code. His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ Jim _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at users.mns.ru Fri Oct 26 03:19:42 2007 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 12:19:42 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB In-Reply-To: <3AFD7B393DB846058FE4CB0DD02A02F4@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <000101c817a8$f5f9c2f0$6401a8c0@nant> Hello Jim, Thank you for your clarifications! <<< C# 2.0 has these - they are called "anonymous delegates". >>> OK, I'm using them in C# - I didn't know they are also called "delayed calls"... <<< Let's face it - anything you can do in Eiffel can also be done effectively in just about any current language. >>> Yes. <<< For me, it comes down to one simple thing: Eiffel provides a more direct path from the concept to the implementation. >>> OK. This is what is called "Design By Contract"? ====================================================================== http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design_by_contract If the invariant AND precondition are true before using the service, then the invariant AND the postcondition will be true after the service has been completed. ====================================================================== <<< Take a look at www.eiffel.com and check out the various blurbs and then download the free version and try it out ;0) >>> Thanks. I might do that but the next year only probably - hopefully I will have some time to play with Eiffel by that time.... <<< I hear a lot of talk about contracts in the Java community, but the language offers almost zero support for it. Contracts can change the way you think about the code, and are especially useful for doing incremental development. >>> OK. For C#/VB.NET such "contracts" is what agile Test Driven Development(TDD)/Domain Driven Developpment (DDD) or its modern variation Behaviour Driven Development (http://behaviour-driven.org/ ) propose to use for incremental development with latter renamed to Feeedback Driven Development by thus highlighting the fact the (next) increment is implemented based on customers' feedback... (We do that in MS Access all the times don't we? (just a rhetoric remark :) ) <<< Again, similar stuff exists for other languages. Eiffel has a tool that lets you diagram your system and then it will build the skeleton for you. Conversely, you can create the diagram from existing code; hence "round-trip". >>> OK. The more I'm being in software development the more I feel that all kind of diagramming could be helpful but only when implemented software architecture is clean - and the latter usually mainly depends on developers' experience - diagramming/CASE tools are very often helpless here to improve the software quality... Just my experience of course... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 9:29 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Hi Shamil: Comments and replies from my friend and myself are provided inline. >What are these "delayed calls"? - I'm wondering what real projects >development tasks they help to solve effectively? C# 2.0 has these - they are called "anonymous delegates". Most modern languages now have them in one form or another. I recommend googling for "closures in " and just reading about them... (My comment: it is like an enhanced call-back.) >I'm not arguing with you and your friend nor am I trying to start a >discussion C# vs. Eiffel - I'm just wondering what are these attractive >Eiffel features your friend mentioned, which I'm unaware about, how useful >they are in business applications development and how can one simulate them >by using e.g. C# or C++/CLI.... Let's face it - anything you can do in Eiffel can also be done effectively in just about any current language. For me, it comes down to one simple thing: Eiffel provides a more direct path from the concept to the implementation. Take a look at www.eiffel.com and check out the various blurbs and then download the free version and try it out ;0) >"Multiple inheritance" and genericity - well, C# doesn't have multiple >inheritance but C# has Generics - aren't they enough for most of the real >business tasks programming? If not - then for that kind of tasks one can >use C++/CLI with all its power of multiple inheritance and C++ templates >etc. ? >(C++/CLI is not free but it's available in e.g. MS Empower program package, >which is not that expensive...) >I'd think that "design-by-contract" will not help to reduce that much the >bugs without good (unit) test coverage but when good test coverage exists >what is the use of "design-by-contract"? I hear a lot of talk about contracts in the Java community, but the language offers almost zero support for it. Contracts can change the way you think about the code, and are especially useful for doing incremental development. >"built-in doc that blows away the competition" - what is that? For instance, there is the "flat" view of a class, that shows *all* the attributes and methods in one place; each is annotated with the class from which it was inherited. Contrast that with the more common doc, where you have to go on a treasure hunt to figure out all the methods etc, and what was inherited from where. >"visual round-trip engineering tools" - what are that? Again, similar stuff exists for other languages. Eiffel has a tool that lets you diagram your system and then it will build the skeleton for you. Conversely, you can create the diagram from existing code; hence "round-trip". >Forward-/reverse-engineering for UML(?) object diagrams... Not sure what UML <--> Eiffel tools exist.. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 2:57 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB <<< - It has delayed calls (aka "closures") >>> Hi Jim, What are these "delayed calls"? - I'm wondering what real projects development tasks they help to solve effectively? I'm nor arguing with you and your friend nor am I trying to start a discussion C# vs. Eiffel - I'm just wondering what are these attractive Eiffel features your friend mentioned, which I'm unaware about, how useful they are in business applications development and how can one simulate them by using e.g. C# or C++/CLI.... "Multiple inheritance" and genericity - well, C# doesn't have multiple inheritance but C# has Generics - aren't they enough for most of the real business tasks programming? If not - then for rhat kind of tasks one can use C++/CLI with all its power of multiple inheritance and C++ templates etc. ? (C++/CLI is not free but it's available in e.g. MS Empower program package, which is not that expensive...) I'd think that "design-by-contract" will not help to reduce that much the bugs without good (unit) test coverage but when good test coverage exists what is the use of "design-by-contract"? "built-in doc that blows away the competition" - what is that? "visual round-trip engineering tools" - what are that? Forward-/reverse-engineering for UML(?) object diagrams... <<< Here is an article from there that helps to show its amazing power: http://www.eiffelroom.com/article/fun_with_generics >>> Jim, C# has Generics with static casting, when one will want to do something more tricky they can well generate and compile and bind C# code and classes and objects instances on-the-fly... ...but IMO this referred article titled "Fun with Generics" doesn't give any real life applications samples where dynamic Generics casting existing in Eiffel (and lacking in C# and Java) - where this dynamic Generics casting is really needed? Does your friend have such samples, which can be looked through? ... Thanks. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 12:32 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Hi Gustav: As promised here is a reply from my friend: Hi, Jim: The ISE Eiffel website is www.eiffel.com. Note that they now have a dual licensing model for EiffelStudio (the stand-alone workbench), so one can use it free for open source software. There is Eiffel for ASP.net which is *free* - we need to check this out! There is also a .net plugin for Visual Studio (EiffelEnvision) that is not too pricey ($US 1799). Why would we be interested in this beast? - The enterprise versions include visual round-trip engineering tools - The language is very high level, so you can get a lot of mileage with very little code - It works with .net and stand-alone on several platforms - It has design-by-contract, which really helps to reduce bugs - It has simple and powerful multiple inheritance and genericity (none of the "interface" crap that passes for o-o in most other languages) - It has delayed calls (aka "closures") - It has a powerful reflection api - It is really easy to learn because it is so straightforward and logical - It has built-in doc that blows away the competition After coding in Java for a year, I am more than ready to jump ship to Eiffel myself! I would recommend also checking out Gnu SmartEiffel - see http://smarteiffel.loria.fr/index.html Another good link: www.eiffelroom.com It has articles, blogs etc on eiffel. Here is an article from there that helps to show its amazing power: http://www.eiffelroom.com/article/fun_with_generics Best regards, Yigal Hope you find this useful. If you need further details that is also easy to provide. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 10:45 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Hi Gustav: I am not qualified to give comment of the Eiffel product myself as all my knowledge is second hand but I have passed your query on to my friend and when he responds I will post his email here. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 10:18 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB Hi Jim Interesting. Perhaps your friend could tell us briefly about the highlights of Eiffel? Why is it worth the money? /gustav >>> accessd at shaw.ca 25-10-2007 19:18 >>> Shamil... you are correct in all that. This friend who is strongly recommending Eiffel is planning on leaving his current job soon and as his wife now has an excellent job at the college and he has decided to go freelance. He wants to work with me on projects and is planning on buying a full licensed version.... To make a short story long I may be becoming an Eiffel guru whether I want to or not. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 11:48 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB <<< I was unaware of the product cost.... >>> Hi Jim. Yes, I have just checked the price - it looks unaffordable for small-/middle-size businesses. Yes, there is evaluation version but... I'd currently think that ASP.NET and C#/VB.NET(VS Express) + MS SQL 2005 Express/Access backend DB is the best ever available toolset for Web (and whatever else) real life business applications development... And they are free for download and use, aren't they?... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 5:46 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I do not usually answer my own emails but... I must qualify my last comments as I was unaware of the product cost which had me fumbling for my oxygen mask as soon as I saw it. Fortunately there are evaluation copies available. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:12 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Renaming DBA-VB I offer wonder why Ruby-on-rails is such a popular program considering that its performance is rated at one thirtieth of that of C and far below the speed of any .Net flavour. A friend has recently been required to work with ROR and was not impressed with performance and that it could be written so cryptic that he was required to write extensive notes in the code. His recommendation for the finest .Net programming language is Eiffel: http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/dotnet/eiffelsharp/ Jim _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue Oct 30 10:14:28 2007 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 16:14:28 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] VS Printer dialogue error Message-ID: Hi all A VB.Net app is running at a client. The developer is gone and no source code is at hand. One machine can print, the others can't. On those the (localized) error message below is shown when the print dialog should open. Any hints what could be causing this? Could it be a missing file (the parameter), but which? The machines all run WinXP Pro. /gustav ************** Exception text ************** System.ArgumentException: Parameter is invalid. ved System.Drawing.Bitmap..ctor(String filename) ved VRS_v2_0.Print.PrintLabelDBAccess..ctor() ved VRS_v2_0.MainForm.MenuItem1_Click(Object sender, EventArgs e) ved System.Windows.Forms.MenuItem.OnClick(EventArgs e) ved System.Windows.Forms.MenuItem.MenuItemData.Execute() ved System.Windows.Forms.Command.Invoke() ved System.Windows.Forms.Command.DispatchID(Int32 id) ved System.Windows.Forms.Control.WmCommand(Message& m) ved System.Windows.Forms.Control.WndProc(Message& m) ved System.Windows.Forms.ScrollableControl.WndProc(Message& m) ved System.Windows.Forms.ContainerControl.WndProc(Message& m) ved System.Windows.Forms.Form.WndProc(Message& m) ved System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.OnMessage(Message& m) ved System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.WndProc(Message& m) ved System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam) ************** Loaded assemblies ************** mscorlib Assemblyversion: 2.0.0.0 Win32-version: 2.0.50727.832 (QFE.050727-8300) CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/Microsoft.NET/Framework/v2.0.50727/mscorlib.dll ---------------------------------------- VRS_v2.0 Assemblyversion: 1.0.2218.22936 Win32-version: 1.0.2218.22936 CodeBase: file:///C:/Programmer/VRS/VRS_v2.0.exe ---------------------------------------- System.Windows.Forms Assemblyversion: 2.0.0.0 Win32-version: 2.0.50727.832 (QFE.050727-8300) CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Windows.Forms/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Windows.Forms.dll ---------------------------------------- System Assemblyversion: 2.0.0.0 Win32-version: 2.0.50727.832 (QFE.050727-8300) CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.dll ---------------------------------------- System.Drawing Assemblyversion: 2.0.0.0 Win32-version: 2.0.50727.832 (QFE.050727-8300) CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Drawing/2.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Drawing.dll ---------------------------------------- System.Windows.Forms.resources Assemblyversion: 2.0.0.0 Win32-version: 2.0.50727.42 (RTM.050727-4200) CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Windows.Forms.resources/2.0.0.0_da_b77a5c561934e089/System.Windows.Forms.resources.dll ---------------------------------------- System.Data Assemblyversion: 2.0.0.0 Win32-version: 2.0.50727.832 (QFE.050727-8300) CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_32/System.Data/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Data.dll ---------------------------------------- Microsoft.VisualBasic Assemblyversion: 8.0.0.0 Win32-version: 8.0.50727.42 (RTM.050727-4200) CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/Microsoft.VisualBasic/8.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/Microsoft.VisualBasic.dll ---------------------------------------- System.Transactions Assemblyversion: 2.0.0.0 Win32-version: 2.0.50727.832 (QFE.050727-8300) CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_32/System.Transactions/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Transactions.dll ---------------------------------------- System.EnterpriseServices Assemblyversion: 2.0.0.0 Win32-version: 2.0.50727.832 (QFE.050727-8300) CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_32/System.EnterpriseServices/2.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.EnterpriseServices.dll ---------------------------------------- System.Configuration Assemblyversion: 2.0.0.0 Win32-version: 2.0.50727.832 (QFE.050727-8300) CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Configuration/2.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Configuration.dll ---------------------------------------- System.Xml Assemblyversion: 2.0.0.0 Win32-version: 2.0.50727.832 (QFE.050727-8300) CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Xml/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Xml.dll ---------------------------------------- System.Drawing.resources Assemblyversion: 2.0.0.0 Win32-version: 2.0.50727.42 (RTM.050727-4200) CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Drawing.resources/2.0.0.0_da_b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Drawing.resources.dll ---------------------------------------- mscorlib.resources Assemblyversion: 2.0.0.0 Win32-version: 2.0.50727.832 (QFE.050727-8300) CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/Microsoft.NET/Framework/v2.0.50727/mscorlib.dll ---------------------------------------- From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Oct 30 10:23:58 2007 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 08:23:58 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] VS Printer dialogue error In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Just a SWAG, but given the "Parameter is invalid" message, I wonder if the mapping to the printer is different for those client machines. Assuming this is one or more network printers, that is. If the printers are local, no ideas. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 8:14 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] VS Printer dialogue error Hi all A VB.Net app is running at a client. The developer is gone and no source code is at hand. One machine can print, the others can't. On those the (localized) error message below is shown when the print dialog should open. Any hints what could be causing this? Could it be a missing file (the parameter), but which? The machines all run WinXP Pro. /gustav ************** Exception text ************** System.ArgumentException: Parameter is invalid. ved System.Drawing.Bitmap..ctor(String filename) ved VRS_v2_0.Print.PrintLabelDBAccess..ctor() ved VRS_v2_0.MainForm.MenuItem1_Click(Object sender, EventArgs e) ved System.Windows.Forms.MenuItem.OnClick(EventArgs e) ved System.Windows.Forms.MenuItem.MenuItemData.Execute() ved System.Windows.Forms.Command.Invoke() ved System.Windows.Forms.Command.DispatchID(Int32 id) ved System.Windows.Forms.Control.WmCommand(Message& m) ved System.Windows.Forms.Control.WndProc(Message& m) ved System.Windows.Forms.ScrollableControl.WndProc(Message& m) ved System.Windows.Forms.ContainerControl.WndProc(Message& m) ved System.Windows.Forms.Form.WndProc(Message& m) ved System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.OnMessage(Message& m) ved System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.WndProc(Message& m) ved System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam) From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue Oct 30 10:46:49 2007 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 16:46:49 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] VS Printer dialogue error Message-ID: Hi Charlotte I did check that - perhaps the app requested a specific printer to be installed? But you gave me an idea. Suddenly I recalled the fabulous old util from SysInternals: File Monitor for Windows NT/9x v4.34 Once loaded, I ran the app to pop the error and, voila, this line (wrapped here) showed up: 16:30:01 VRS_v2.0.exe:1932 IRP_MJ_CREATE C:\Programmer\VRS\prconnect.bmp FILE NOT FOUND Attributes: Any Options: Open Then I located the bmp file, copied it to the VRS folder and ran the app with no errors! Thanks Charlotte and SysInternals (now bought by the all mighty you know who). /gustav >>> cfoust at infostatsystems.com 30-10-2007 16:23 >>> Just a SWAG, but given the "Parameter is invalid" message, I wonder if the mapping to the printer is different for those client machines. Assuming this is one or more network printers, that is. If the printers are local, no ideas. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 8:14 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] VS Printer dialogue error Hi all A VB.Net app is running at a client. The developer is gone and no source code is at hand. One machine can print, the others can't. On those the (localized) error message below is shown when the print dialog should open. Any hints what could be causing this? Could it be a missing file (the parameter), but which? The machines all run WinXP Pro. /gustav From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Tue Oct 30 16:33:36 2007 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 10:33:36 +1300 Subject: [dba-VB] Web Developer wanted VB Dot Net Message-ID: <20071030213304.JVIJ18083.fep03.xtra.co.nz@Dalyn.dalyn.co.nz> Group, I have an access program that has been converted to a Web site written using Visual Studio 2003 and VB.Net. The conversion was done by another developer as a favour for the company that owns the software. We are now looking for a web developer that can do the following: 1) Continue to maintain the web version. This should be basic maintenance of the screens. The database is SQL2000 and I can maintain this. The reports are developed using DataDynamics Active Report. I can also maintain these. What I can't do is the actual web site maintenance. 2) The company has another project that they want converted from a desk top version to the web. This project would involve interaction with the developer of the desk top version - he is also not familiar with web development. The company that we would be working for is based in Chicago. However, I have been developing for them for over 10 years and I am in NZ. If you are interested in more information please email me off line with a phone number and a suitable time to call (preferably your afternoon if you are in America due to the time difference) Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd Wellington, New Zealand