From fhtapia at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 16:41:02 2009
From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 14:41:02 -0700
Subject: [dba-VB] QueryStringParameter error
In-Reply-To: <07C21F79042A4BDD98A27EF049A0B312@advancedinput.com>
References: <b874372a0907292138i26f1e15cqe798a75e0282ccbe@mail.gmail.com>
	<07C21F79042A4BDD98A27EF049A0B312@advancedinput.com>
Message-ID: <b874372a0908051441s29a8f7f7ja7a962f0fdc7fb46@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry for the late reply I had to shelf the project for a few days as I had
other things going... I am the DBA at my company and also do work on our new
SAP BI system (just learning that system) but I do get involved in server
maintenance and any other project that somehow ends up at my feet because
it's cool, fun or needs to be done :| it's just the way it is :)

but to get back to the problem, what I did was to create a surrogate PKID on
this table for languages named pkid and auto numbered, and the technique I
posted of earlier, now works :), so that bridge is now crossed.

I will say this, the Access version of this app was completed the same day
and within about 1hr of this long long asp.net project that has gone on for
weeks :(.



-Francisco
http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More...


On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 9:48 PM, Eric Barro <ebarro at verizon.net> wrote:

>  Francico,
>
> I haven't really worked with the syntax you show below but I've seen a
> buddy
> of mine use it as well. Try and put Response.Write(intLanguage) in your
> code
> to debug and see if it is passing the value.
>
> Eric
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco Tapia
> Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 9:39 PM
> To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
> Subject: [dba-VB] QueryStringParameter error
>
> Hi,
>  I've not been active on this list at all, but I do have a quick question
> someone here may have already ran into.  I am working on an ASP.NET(visual
> studio 2008) and I created a few pages that all work fairly similarly,
> where
> there is a GridView on the main Entity page, and Add pages along with Edit
> pages created with Details View controls.  In the GridView page, I add an
> edit button and the link points the
> ~/language/EditLanguage.aspx?intLanguage={0}.  On the receiving page I
> edited the SELECT command with the proper WHERE clause as WHERE
> intLanguage=
> @intLanguage.  The QueryStringParameter is as follows:
> <SelectParameters>
>            <asp:QueryStringParameter Name="intLanguage"
> QueryStringField="intLanguage" />
>        </SelectParameters>
>
> so this is the same for my other pages such as my Release page and my
> Category page and both work fine, but the language page is different... the
> PKID is the intLanguage field, but it's not an autoincremented number
> (since
> this project is still in it's infancy, I've thought about adding a true
> surrogate PKID and see if that is the problem...
>
> note, If i edit the select command w/o the where, the page loads fine (well
> w/o the parameter being passed so my DetailsView control only displays the
> first record in the recordset, I'm new to ASP.NET and don't really know
> how
> to troubleshoot this.... any ideas?
>
> -Francisco
> http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More...
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>


From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Fri Aug  7 05:43:37 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 14:43:37 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] "Google Maps Navigator" Sample MS Access Application
Message-ID: <005301ca174b$ecbdd3d0$c6397b70$@spb.ru>

Hi All,

 

Have you ever tried to work with Google Maps in MS Access application via MS
Web Browser control?

To do some simple navigation you can use URLs like the following:

 

Finland

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo
<http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=65,27&spn=5,5>
&mode=preview&ll=65,27&spn=5,5 

 

Using this approach I have made a simple sample application, which
screenshot you can see here:

 

http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/temp/GoogleMapsNavigator.jpg

 

My question is: Do you know what format of URLs to use to show just a map?

 

I know there exist the Google Maps API
(http://code.google.com/intl/en-EN/apis/maps/) for advanced usage of Google
Maps via JavaScript but I wanted to try to bypass usage of that API this
time.

 

For the ones interested to experiment via simple Google Maps navigation
approach I have posted MS Access sample application here:

 

http://northwind.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=26600 

 

You can download it using the following URL(watch line wraps):

http://northwind.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=26600#D
ownloadId=78352  (175KB)

 

Our Northwind.CodePlex.com team could use the above approach + Google Maps
API in .NET sample application.

 

More advanced question is: Is there any way to react in MS Access hosting
form's VBA code to the changes done in Google Maps map, e.g. Zoom-in/out,
Move of map .? I mean when Zoon-in/out happens there should be AJAX (Google
Maps API) calls to the Google server - are there any web browser events,
corresponding to that API calls?(I know Browser navigation can be trapped
via web browser events but this isn't the question.) 

 

Thank you.

 

--

Shamil

 

P.S. Some more sample URLs:

 

Finland

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=65,27&spn=5,5

 

UK

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=55,-3&spn=6,6

 

Mexico

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=23,-102&spn=10,10

 

Italy

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=41,12&spn=5,5

 

Australia

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=-25,133&spn=20,20

 

Japan

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=36,138&spn=5,5

 

Madagascar

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=-18,46&spn=10,16



From mmattys at rochester.rr.com  Fri Aug  7 07:49:04 2009
From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 08:49:04 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] "Google Maps Navigator" Sample MS Access Application
References: <005301ca174b$ecbdd3d0$c6397b70$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <9EF9E3348B99401E91E492472CCF227F@Mattys>

Hi Shamil,

I'll take a look - this is of interest to me.

-
Michael R Mattys
MapPoint and Database Dev
www.mattysconsulting.com
-
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Shamil Salakhetdinov" <shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru>
To: "'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'" 
<dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 6:43 AM
Subject: [dba-VB] "Google Maps Navigator" Sample MS Access Application


> Hi All,
>
>
>
> Have you ever tried to work with Google Maps in MS Access application via 
> MS
> Web Browser control?
>
> To do some simple navigation you can use URLs like the following:
>
>
>
> Finland
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo
> <http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=65,27&spn=5,5>
> &mode=preview&ll=65,27&spn=5,5
>
>
>
> Using this approach I have made a simple sample application, which
> screenshot you can see here:
>
>
>
> http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/temp/GoogleMapsNavigator.jpg
>
>
>
> My question is: Do you know what format of URLs to use to show just a map?
>
>
>
> I know there exist the Google Maps API
> (http://code.google.com/intl/en-EN/apis/maps/) for advanced usage of 
> Google
> Maps via JavaScript but I wanted to try to bypass usage of that API this
> time.
>
>
>
> For the ones interested to experiment via simple Google Maps navigation
> approach I have posted MS Access sample application here:
>
>
>
> http://northwind.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=26600
>
>
>
> You can download it using the following URL(watch line wraps):
>
> http://northwind.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=26600#D
> ownloadId=78352  (175KB)
>
>
>
> Our Northwind.CodePlex.com team could use the above approach + Google Maps
> API in .NET sample application.
>
>
>
> More advanced question is: Is there any way to react in MS Access hosting
> form's VBA code to the changes done in Google Maps map, e.g. Zoom-in/out,
> Move of map .? I mean when Zoon-in/out happens there should be AJAX 
> (Google
> Maps API) calls to the Google server - are there any web browser events,
> corresponding to that API calls?(I know Browser navigation can be trapped
> via web browser events but this isn't the question.)
>
>
>
> Thank you.
>
>
>
> --
>
> Shamil
>
>
>
> P.S. Some more sample URLs:
>
>
>
> Finland
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=65,27&spn=5,5
>
>
>
> UK
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=55,-3&spn=6,6
>
>
>
> Mexico
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=23,-102&spn=10,10
>
>
>
> Italy
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=41,12&spn=5,5
>
>
>
> Australia
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=-25,133&spn=20,20
>
>
>
> Japan
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=36,138&spn=5,5
>
>
>
> Madagascar
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=-18,46&spn=10,16
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 



From max.wanadoo at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 11:21:04 2009
From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 17:21:04 +0100
Subject: [dba-VB] "Google Maps Navigator" Sample MS Access Application
In-Reply-To: <005301ca174b$ecbdd3d0$c6397b70$@spb.ru>
References: <005301ca174b$ecbdd3d0$c6397b70$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <4a7c54b1.0a04d00a.07ea.2b62@mx.google.com>

Shamil, I *think* Google provides a lot of APIs for this sort of stuff.

Max


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil
Salakhetdinov
Sent: 07 August 2009 11:44
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: [dba-VB] "Google Maps Navigator" Sample MS Access Application

Hi All,

 

Have you ever tried to work with Google Maps in MS Access application via MS
Web Browser control?

To do some simple navigation you can use URLs like the following:

 

Finland

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo
<http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=65,27&spn=5,5>
&mode=preview&ll=65,27&spn=5,5 

 

Using this approach I have made a simple sample application, which
screenshot you can see here:

 

http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/temp/GoogleMapsNavigator.jpg

 

My question is: Do you know what format of URLs to use to show just a map?

 

I know there exist the Google Maps API
(http://code.google.com/intl/en-EN/apis/maps/) for advanced usage of Google
Maps via JavaScript but I wanted to try to bypass usage of that API this
time.

 

For the ones interested to experiment via simple Google Maps navigation
approach I have posted MS Access sample application here:

 

http://northwind.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=26600 

 

You can download it using the following URL(watch line wraps):

http://northwind.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=26600#D
ownloadId=78352  (175KB)

 

Our Northwind.CodePlex.com team could use the above approach + Google Maps
API in .NET sample application.

 

More advanced question is: Is there any way to react in MS Access hosting
form's VBA code to the changes done in Google Maps map, e.g. Zoom-in/out,
Move of map .? I mean when Zoon-in/out happens there should be AJAX (Google
Maps API) calls to the Google server - are there any web browser events,
corresponding to that API calls?(I know Browser navigation can be trapped
via web browser events but this isn't the question.) 

 

Thank you.

 

--

Shamil

 

P.S. Some more sample URLs:

 

Finland

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=65,27&spn=5,5

 

UK

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=55,-3&spn=6,6

 

Mexico

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=23,-102&spn=10,10

 

Italy

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=41,12&spn=5,5

 

Australia

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=-25,133&spn=20,20

 

Japan

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=36,138&spn=5,5

 

Madagascar

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=-18,46&spn=10,16

_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From mmattys at rochester.rr.com  Fri Aug  7 11:43:13 2009
From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 12:43:13 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] "Google Maps Navigator" Sample MS Access Application
References: <005301ca174b$ecbdd3d0$c6397b70$@spb.ru>
	<4a7c54b1.0a04d00a.07ea.2b62@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <78954CFB9B7E441FA0B6ED708815CE40@Mattys>

Hi Max,

Imagine if you could do all of it in Access, though.
Seems like AJAX could be duplicated through VBA or WSH,
which are client-side, instead of Javascript and XMLHTTPRequest
-
Michael R Mattys
MapPoint and Database Dev
www.mattysconsulting.com
-

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Max Wanadoo" <max.wanadoo at gmail.com>
To: "'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'" 
<dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 12:21 PM
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] "Google Maps Navigator" Sample MS Access Application


> Shamil, I *think* Google provides a lot of APIs for this sort of stuff.
>
> Max
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil
> Salakhetdinov
> Sent: 07 August 2009 11:44
> To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
> Subject: [dba-VB] "Google Maps Navigator" Sample MS Access Application
>
> Hi All,
>
>
>
> Have you ever tried to work with Google Maps in MS Access application via 
> MS
> Web Browser control?
>
> To do some simple navigation you can use URLs like the following:
>
>
>
> Finland
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo
> <http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=65,27&spn=5,5>
> &mode=preview&ll=65,27&spn=5,5
>
>
>
> Using this approach I have made a simple sample application, which
> screenshot you can see here:
>
>
>
> http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/temp/GoogleMapsNavigator.jpg
>
>
>
> My question is: Do you know what format of URLs to use to show just a map?
>
>
>
> I know there exist the Google Maps API
> (http://code.google.com/intl/en-EN/apis/maps/) for advanced usage of 
> Google
> Maps via JavaScript but I wanted to try to bypass usage of that API this
> time.
>
>
>
> For the ones interested to experiment via simple Google Maps navigation
> approach I have posted MS Access sample application here:
>
>
>
> http://northwind.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=26600
>
>
>
> You can download it using the following URL(watch line wraps):
>
> http://northwind.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=26600#D
> ownloadId=78352  (175KB)
>
>
>
> Our Northwind.CodePlex.com team could use the above approach + Google Maps
> API in .NET sample application.
>
>
>
> More advanced question is: Is there any way to react in MS Access hosting
> form's VBA code to the changes done in Google Maps map, e.g. Zoom-in/out,
> Move of map .? I mean when Zoon-in/out happens there should be AJAX 
> (Google
> Maps API) calls to the Google server - are there any web browser events,
> corresponding to that API calls?(I know Browser navigation can be trapped
> via web browser events but this isn't the question.)
>
>
>
> Thank you.
>
>
>
> --
>
> Shamil
>
>
>
> P.S. Some more sample URLs:
>
>
>
> Finland
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=65,27&spn=5,5
>
>
>
> UK
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=55,-3&spn=6,6
>
>
>
> Mexico
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=23,-102&spn=10,10
>
>
>
> Italy
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=41,12&spn=5,5
>
>
>
> Australia
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=-25,133&spn=20,20
>
>
>
> Japan
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=36,138&spn=5,5
>
>
>
> Madagascar
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=-18,46&spn=10,16
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 



From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Fri Aug  7 13:31:39 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 22:31:39 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] "Google Maps Navigator" Sample MS Access Application
In-Reply-To: <78954CFB9B7E441FA0B6ED708815CE40@Mattys>
References: <005301ca174b$ecbdd3d0$c6397b70$@spb.ru>	<4a7c54b1.0a04d00a.07ea.2b62@mx.google.com>
	<78954CFB9B7E441FA0B6ED708815CE40@Mattys>
Message-ID: <006d01ca178d$4f9569a0$eec03ce0$@spb.ru>

Hi Mike and Max,

Thank you for your feedback.

Not sure yet here what(how) I wanted to solve my task, which should behave
something like this sample:

http://graargh.returnstrue.com/rajdeep/maps/tools/latlong_tool/v7/lat-long-t
ool_v7.html

but with "clicked" location information "feeded back" to MS Access host
form's VBA code and then stored to MS Access database as well as MS Access
form "setting the scene" (current map) and "drawing bubbles" on that map for
selected on MS Access form's controls locations, and presenting information
on what property/geoobject is situated "under the bubble" ....

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mike Mattys
Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 8:43 PM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] "Google Maps Navigator" Sample MS Access Application

Hi Max,

Imagine if you could do all of it in Access, though.
Seems like AJAX could be duplicated through VBA or WSH,
which are client-side, instead of Javascript and XMLHTTPRequest
-
Michael R Mattys
MapPoint and Database Dev
www.mattysconsulting.com
-

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Max Wanadoo" <max.wanadoo at gmail.com>
To: "'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'" 
<dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 12:21 PM
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] "Google Maps Navigator" Sample MS Access Application


> Shamil, I *think* Google provides a lot of APIs for this sort of stuff.
>
> Max
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil
> Salakhetdinov
> Sent: 07 August 2009 11:44
> To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
> Subject: [dba-VB] "Google Maps Navigator" Sample MS Access Application
>
> Hi All,
>
>
>
> Have you ever tried to work with Google Maps in MS Access application via 
> MS
> Web Browser control?
>
> To do some simple navigation you can use URLs like the following:
>
>
>
> Finland
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo
> <http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=65,27&spn=5,5>
> &mode=preview&ll=65,27&spn=5,5
>
>
>
> Using this approach I have made a simple sample application, which
> screenshot you can see here:
>
>
>
> http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/temp/GoogleMapsNavigator.jpg
>
>
>
> My question is: Do you know what format of URLs to use to show just a map?
>
>
>
> I know there exist the Google Maps API
> (http://code.google.com/intl/en-EN/apis/maps/) for advanced usage of 
> Google
> Maps via JavaScript but I wanted to try to bypass usage of that API this
> time.
>
>
>
> For the ones interested to experiment via simple Google Maps navigation
> approach I have posted MS Access sample application here:
>
>
>
> http://northwind.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=26600
>
>
>
> You can download it using the following URL(watch line wraps):
>
>
http://northwind.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=26600#D
> ownloadId=78352  (175KB)
>
>
>
> Our Northwind.CodePlex.com team could use the above approach + Google Maps
> API in .NET sample application.
>
>
>
> More advanced question is: Is there any way to react in MS Access hosting
> form's VBA code to the changes done in Google Maps map, e.g. Zoom-in/out,
> Move of map .? I mean when Zoon-in/out happens there should be AJAX 
> (Google
> Maps API) calls to the Google server - are there any web browser events,
> corresponding to that API calls?(I know Browser navigation can be trapped
> via web browser events but this isn't the question.)
>
>
>
> Thank you.
>
>
>
> --
>
> Shamil
>
>
>
> P.S. Some more sample URLs:
>
>
>
> Finland
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=65,27&spn=5,5
>
>
>
> UK
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=55,-3&spn=6,6
>
>
>
> Mexico
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=23,-102&spn=10,10
>
>
>
> Italy
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=41,12&spn=5,5
>
>
>
> Australia
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=-25,133&spn=20,20
>
>
>
> Japan
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=36,138&spn=5,5
>
>
>
> Madagascar
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=-18,46&spn=10,16
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 

_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


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From max.wanadoo at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 15:26:13 2009
From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 21:26:13 +0100
Subject: [dba-VB] "Google Maps Navigator" Sample MS Access Application
In-Reply-To: <006d01ca178d$4f9569a0$eec03ce0$@spb.ru>
References: <005301ca174b$ecbdd3d0$c6397b70$@spb.ru>	<4a7c54b1.0a04d00a.07ea.2b62@mx.google.com>	<78954CFB9B7E441FA0B6ED708815CE40@Mattys>
	<006d01ca178d$4f9569a0$eec03ce0$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <4a7c8dfb.0707d00a.26a7.4dd6@mx.google.com>

Some Links: (Wraps??)

http://www.google.co.uk/enterprise/maps/#utm_campaign=en&utm_source=en-ha-em
ea-gb-sk_devs&utm_medium=ha&utm_term=google%20maps%20api


http://code.google.com/apis/maps/index.html

http://code.google.com/apis/maps/documentation/examples/

Some code:

function initialize() {
  if (GBrowserIsCompatible()) {
    var map = new GMap2(document.getElementById("map_canvas"));
    map.setCenter(new GLatLng(37.4419, -122.1419), 13);
  }
}



Max




From Gustav at cactus.dk  Fri Aug  7 17:02:32 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 00:02:32 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] "Google Maps Navigator" Sample MS Access	Application
Message-ID: <sa7cc0a7.011@cactus.dk>

Hi Shamil

I'm not familiar with the MS Web Browser control but in .Net I have used this URL to display just the map:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=da&geocode=&q=kalkbr%C3%A6nderil%C3%B8bskaj+4+a,+denmark&sll=46.377254,-86.484375&sspn=28.638122,54.84375&ie=UTF8&t=p&s=AARTsJo6QIZIUSLZJjht_Zf2KrLNZ8c1xw&ll=55.720439,12.595997&spn=0.01692,0.036478&z=14&iwloc=addr&output=embed

Maybe you can decode its parts for your purpose.

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 07-08-2009 12:43 >>>
Hi All,

Have you ever tried to work with Google Maps in MS Access application via MS
Web Browser control?

To do some simple navigation you can use URLs like the following:

Finland

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=65,27&spn=5,5 

Using this approach I have made a simple sample application, which
screenshot you can see here:

http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/temp/GoogleMapsNavigator.jpg 

My question is: Do you know what format of URLs to use to show just a map?

I know there exist the Google Maps API
(http://code.google.com/intl/en-EN/apis/maps/) for advanced usage of Google
Maps via JavaScript but I wanted to try to bypass usage of that API this
time.

For the ones interested to experiment via simple Google Maps navigation
approach I have posted MS Access sample application here:

http://northwind.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=26600 

You can download it using the following URL(watch line wraps):

http://northwind.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=26600#DownloadId=78352  (175KB)

Our Northwind.CodePlex.com team could use the above approach + Google Maps
API in .NET sample application.

More advanced question is: Is there any way to react in MS Access hosting
form's VBA code to the changes done in Google Maps map, e.g. Zoom-in/out,
Move of map .? I mean when Zoon-in/out happens there should be AJAX (Google
Maps API) calls to the Google server - are there any web browser events,
corresponding to that API calls?(I know Browser navigation can be trapped
via web browser events but this isn't the question.) 

Thank you.

--

Shamil

P.S. Some more sample URLs:

Finland

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=65,27&spn=5,5 

UK

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=55,-3&spn=6,6 

Mexico

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=23,-102&spn=10,10 

Italy

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=41,12&spn=5,5 

Australia

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=-25,133&spn=20,20 

Japan

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=36,138&spn=5,5 

Madagascar

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=-18,46&spn=10,16 





From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Fri Aug  7 17:08:55 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 02:08:55 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] "Google Maps Navigator" Sample MS Access Application
In-Reply-To: <4a7c8dfb.0707d00a.26a7.4dd6@mx.google.com>
References: <005301ca174b$ecbdd3d0$c6397b70$@spb.ru>	<4a7c54b1.0a04d00a.07ea.2b62@mx.google.com>	<78954CFB9B7E441FA0B6ED708815CE40@Mattys>	<006d01ca178d$4f9569a0$eec03ce0$@spb.ru>
	<4a7c8dfb.0707d00a.26a7.4dd6@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <007a01ca17ab$a974c8d0$fc5e5a70$@spb.ru>

Hi Max,

Thank you for the links - I have found especially useful currently this one:

GoogleMaps API Samples
http://code.google.com/intl/ru-RU/apis/maps/documentation/examples/

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo
Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 12:26 AM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] "Google Maps Navigator" Sample MS Access Application

Some Links: (Wraps??)

http://www.google.co.uk/enterprise/maps/#utm_campaign=en&utm_source=en-ha-em
ea-gb-sk_devs&utm_medium=ha&utm_term=google%20maps%20api


http://code.google.com/apis/maps/index.html

http://code.google.com/apis/maps/documentation/examples/

Some code:

function initialize() {
  if (GBrowserIsCompatible()) {
    var map = new GMap2(document.getElementById("map_canvas"));
    map.setCenter(new GLatLng(37.4419, -122.1419), 13);
  }
}



Max


_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4316 (20090807) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru


 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4316 (20090807) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 



From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Fri Aug  7 17:26:11 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 02:26:11 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] "Google Maps Navigator" Sample MS Access	Application
In-Reply-To: <sa7cc0a7.011@cactus.dk>
References: <sa7cc0a7.011@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <007b01ca17ae$126a1190$373e34b0$@spb.ru>

HI Gustav,

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 2:03 AM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] "Google Maps Navigator" Sample MS Access Application

Hi Shamil

I'm not familiar with the MS Web Browser control but in .Net I have used
this URL to display just the map:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=da&geocode=&q=kalkbr%C3%A6nder
il%C3%B8bskaj+4+a,+denmark&sll=46.377254,-86.484375&sspn=28.638122,54.84375&
ie=UTF8&t=p&s=AARTsJo6QIZIUSLZJjht_Zf2KrLNZ8c1xw&ll=55.720439,12.595997&spn=
0.01692,0.036478&z=14&iwloc=addr&output=embed

Maybe you can decode its parts for your purpose.

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 07-08-2009 12:43 >>>
Hi All,

Have you ever tried to work with Google Maps in MS Access application via MS
Web Browser control?

To do some simple navigation you can use URLs like the following:

Finland

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=65,27&spn=5,5 

Using this approach I have made a simple sample application, which
screenshot you can see here:

http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/temp/GoogleMapsNavigator.jpg 

My question is: Do you know what format of URLs to use to show just a map?

I know there exist the Google Maps API
(http://code.google.com/intl/en-EN/apis/maps/) for advanced usage of Google
Maps via JavaScript but I wanted to try to bypass usage of that API this
time.

For the ones interested to experiment via simple Google Maps navigation
approach I have posted MS Access sample application here:

http://northwind.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=26600 

You can download it using the following URL(watch line wraps):

http://northwind.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=26600#D
ownloadId=78352  (175KB)

Our Northwind.CodePlex.com team could use the above approach + Google Maps
API in .NET sample application.

More advanced question is: Is there any way to react in MS Access hosting
form's VBA code to the changes done in Google Maps map, e.g. Zoom-in/out,
Move of map .? I mean when Zoon-in/out happens there should be AJAX (Google
Maps API) calls to the Google server - are there any web browser events,
corresponding to that API calls?(I know Browser navigation can be trapped
via web browser events but this isn't the question.) 

Thank you.

--

Shamil

P.S. Some more sample URLs:

Finland

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=65,27&spn=5,5 

UK

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=55,-3&spn=6,6 

Mexico

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=23,-102&spn=10,10 

Italy

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=41,12&spn=5,5 

Australia

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=-25,133&spn=20,20 

Japan

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=36,138&spn=5,5 

Madagascar

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=-18,46&spn=10,16 



_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4316 (20090807) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru


 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4316 (20090807) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 



From fhtapia at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 13:14:55 2009
From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 11:14:55 -0700
Subject: [dba-VB] Reading and Writing to XML file (VB.Net 2005)
Message-ID: <b874372a0908111114h31990dbcl3707dc1f36cc974e@mail.gmail.com>

So it's been a while since I've done any programming in .net and this step
is something I've never done in .net, I've done it in Access and VB in the
past and involved writing classes, but am wondering how it's approached in
.net  (also for beginner vb.net you can point me to site you prefer if you
like)

my task.

I have a simple .net app, it queries a database and populates a DataGridView
control.  I purpose of this app is that it reads the time information from
our timeclock server so that users can easily see when their lunch or clock
out time for the day are since they have a flexibility of +/- 10min for
clocking in during the morning and at lunch.

It works well, but some users have asked for a tolerance to allow the app to
remind them as early as 10 minutes to clock out or as late as 1 min before
they absolutely need to clock out.  A settings form was then developed and
now I'm scracthing my head as I think I should store these settings into an
xml file, but thought that since I'm in .net that writing to an xml file
that was added using the add new item in my project should be simpler but
maybe I'm just wrong?



-Francisco
http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More...


From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Tue Aug 11 13:37:32 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 22:37:32 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Reading and Writing to XML file (VB.Net 2005)
In-Reply-To: <b874372a0908111114h31990dbcl3707dc1f36cc974e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b874372a0908111114h31990dbcl3707dc1f36cc974e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <004801ca1ab2$cb8b8620$62a29260$@spb.ru>

Hi Francisco,

Recommended by MS is to use:

Right-click Project Name -> Properties -> Settings

see "Settings Page, Project Designer" for more information.
see also "Application Settings".


--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco Tapia
Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 10:15 PM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: [dba-VB] Reading and Writing to XML file (VB.Net 2005)

So it's been a while since I've done any programming in .net and this step
is something I've never done in .net, I've done it in Access and VB in the
past and involved writing classes, but am wondering how it's approached in
.net  (also for beginner vb.net you can point me to site you prefer if you
like)

my task.

I have a simple .net app, it queries a database and populates a DataGridView
control.  I purpose of this app is that it reads the time information from
our timeclock server so that users can easily see when their lunch or clock
out time for the day are since they have a flexibility of +/- 10min for
clocking in during the morning and at lunch.

It works well, but some users have asked for a tolerance to allow the app to
remind them as early as 10 minutes to clock out or as late as 1 min before
they absolutely need to clock out.  A settings form was then developed and
now I'm scracthing my head as I think I should store these settings into an
xml file, but thought that since I'm in .net that writing to an xml file
that was added using the add new item in my project should be simpler but
maybe I'm just wrong?



-Francisco
http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More...
_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4326 (20090811) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru


 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4326 (20090811) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 



From fhtapia at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 14:40:47 2009
From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 12:40:47 -0700
Subject: [dba-VB] Reading and Writing to XML file (VB.Net 2005)
In-Reply-To: <004801ca1ab2$cb8b8620$62a29260$@spb.ru>
References: <b874372a0908111114h31990dbcl3707dc1f36cc974e@mail.gmail.com>
	<004801ca1ab2$cb8b8620$62a29260$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <b874372a0908111240p6f84c4e4qfc5af6b1fa452da@mail.gmail.com>

That's cool! Thanks Shamil!

-Francisco
http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More...


On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 11:37 AM, Shamil Salakhetdinov <
shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru> wrote:

> Hi Francisco,
>
> Recommended by MS is to use:
>
> Right-click Project Name -> Properties -> Settings
>
> see "Settings Page, Project Designer" for more information.
> see also "Application Settings".
>
>
> --
> Shamil
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco Tapia
> Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 10:15 PM
> To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
> Subject: [dba-VB] Reading and Writing to XML file (VB.Net 2005)
>
> So it's been a while since I've done any programming in .net and this step
> is something I've never done in .net, I've done it in Access and VB in the
> past and involved writing classes, but am wondering how it's approached in
> .net  (also for beginner vb.net you can point me to site you prefer if you
> like)
>
> my task.
>
> I have a simple .net app, it queries a database and populates a
> DataGridView
> control.  I purpose of this app is that it reads the time information from
> our timeclock server so that users can easily see when their lunch or clock
> out time for the day are since they have a flexibility of +/- 10min for
> clocking in during the morning and at lunch.
>
> It works well, but some users have asked for a tolerance to allow the app
> to
> remind them as early as 10 minutes to clock out or as late as 1 min before
> they absolutely need to clock out.  A settings form was then developed and
> now I'm scracthing my head as I think I should store these settings into an
> xml file, but thought that since I'm in .net that writing to an xml file
> that was added using the add new item in my project should be simpler but
> maybe I'm just wrong?
>
>
>
> -Francisco
> http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More...
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
> signature
> database 4326 (20090811) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.esetnod32.ru
>
>
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
> signature
> database 4326 (20090811) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.esetnod32.ru
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>


From Gustav at cactus.dk  Fri Aug 14 09:57:40 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 16:57:40 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] Visual Studio 2008 Service Pack 1 ATL Security
	Update	(2009-08-03)
Message-ID: <sa859795.032@cactus.dk>

Hi all

For some reason I had trouble finding the download for this and had to google and look up a blog somewhere.
But here it is - 365 MB:

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?displaylang=en&FamilyID=294de390-3c94-49fb-a014-9a38580e64cb

/gustav




From Gustav at cactus.dk  Sun Aug 16 16:31:36 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 23:31:36 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] LINQ for EF Example (Part III)
Message-ID: <sa8896ff.062@cactus.dk>

Hi Shamil

This is a nice and clean example worth studying for anyone having the slightest interest in EF.
I'll see if I can find some contribution time for it this week.

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 23-07-2009 19:17 >>>

FYI: I have just got released a small VS2008 project:

- SPJWinFormsForEF_VS2008.zip - VS2008 sample project to demonstrate
WinForms and MS ReportViewer reports bound to ADO.NET Entity Framework
object datasources;
- SPJWinFormsForEF_Executables.zip - just executables and sample database
for the above sample project.

which can be used as sample to work on converting Northwind.NET to use
ADO.NET Entity Framework object data sources.

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 4:36 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] LINQ for EF Example (Part III)

Hi Shamil and team

That's fine with me.

I'm on my way with Rita (wife) to the nature of Sweden and Norway for a
relaxing break and will be back Monday 2009-08-03. Will try to view the
inbox now and then but won't promise anything ...

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-07-2009 19:29 >>>
Hi Mike and Gustav,

Thank you for your approval to team up to develop Northwind.NET for EF.
Let's first of all implement a simple sample form (Shippers, Suppliers...)
with BindingNavigator bound to object data source, and a simple sample
report (Shippers) bound to object data source, and then implement all the
other forms and reports of Northwind.NET using samples as templates?

Do you see any other ways to proceed with this project?

Thank you.

--
Shamil


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2009 11:26 AM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] LINQ for EF Example (Part III)

Hi Shamil

Of course, in lazy summer mode, as I probably will be off for a week or so
from late next week.

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 18-07-2009 14:30 >>>
Hi Mike,

Yes, "LINQ for ADO.NET Entity Framework" to be precise :)

What about teaming-up with Gustav and myself and to port our Northwind.NET
for MS SQL 2005 to "LINQ for ADO.NET Entity Framework"? Just an idea - and
doing that project in "lazy summer mode" without setting strict deadlines?

Gustav how about you?
Anybody else?

Have nice weekend.

--
Shamil





From mmattys at rochester.rr.com  Sun Aug 16 21:06:44 2009
From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 22:06:44 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] LINQ for EF Example (Part III)
References: <sa8896ff.062@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <7AACCA400CC8478C90F410420ADE9DD7@Mattys>

Hi Gustav, Shamil

This LinqPad might be handy
http://www.linqpad.net/WhyLINQBeatsSQL.aspx

-
Michael R Mattys
MapPoint and Database Dev
www.mattysconsulting.com
-

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Gustav Brock" <Gustav at cactus.dk>
To: <dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 5:31 PM
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] LINQ for EF Example (Part III)


> Hi Shamil
>
> This is a nice and clean example worth studying for anyone having the 
> slightest interest in EF.
> I'll see if I can find some contribution time for it this week.
>
> /gustav
>
>
>>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 23-07-2009 19:17 >>>
>
> FYI: I have just got released a small VS2008 project:
>
> - SPJWinFormsForEF_VS2008.zip - VS2008 sample project to demonstrate
> WinForms and MS ReportViewer reports bound to ADO.NET Entity Framework
> object datasources;
> - SPJWinFormsForEF_Executables.zip - just executables and sample database
> for the above sample project.
>
> which can be used as sample to work on converting Northwind.NET to use
> ADO.NET Entity Framework object data sources.
>
> Thank you.
>
> --
> Shamil
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
> Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 4:36 PM
> To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] LINQ for EF Example (Part III)
>
> Hi Shamil and team
>
> That's fine with me.
>
> I'm on my way with Rita (wife) to the nature of Sweden and Norway for a
> relaxing break and will be back Monday 2009-08-03. Will try to view the
> inbox now and then but won't promise anything ...
>
> /gustav
>
>



From Gustav at cactus.dk  Mon Aug 17 03:00:16 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 10:00:16 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] LINQ for EF Example (Part III)
Message-ID: <sa892a54.066@cactus.dk>

Hi Michael

Yes, it is very good. Also, with its many examples, this is a very good site to learn about the LINQ syntax.

/gustav


>>> mmattys at rochester.rr.com 17-08-2009 04:06 >>>
Hi Gustav, Shamil

This LinqPad might be handy
http://www.linqpad.net/WhyLINQBeatsSQL.aspx 

-
Michael R Mattys
MapPoint and Database Dev
www.mattysconsulting.com 
-

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Gustav Brock" <Gustav at cactus.dk>
To: <dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 5:31 PM
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] LINQ for EF Example (Part III)


> Hi Shamil
>
> This is a nice and clean example worth studying for anyone having the 
> slightest interest in EF.
> I'll see if I can find some contribution time for it this week.
>
> /gustav
>
>
>>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 23-07-2009 19:17 >>>
>
> FYI: I have just got released a small VS2008 project:
>
> - SPJWinFormsForEF_VS2008.zip - VS2008 sample project to demonstrate
> WinForms and MS ReportViewer reports bound to ADO.NET Entity Framework
> object datasources;
> - SPJWinFormsForEF_Executables.zip - just executables and sample database
> for the above sample project.
>
> which can be used as sample to work on converting Northwind.NET to use
> ADO.NET Entity Framework object data sources.
>
> Thank you.
>
> --
> Shamil
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
> Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 4:36 PM
> To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] LINQ for EF Example (Part III)
>
> Hi Shamil and team
>
> That's fine with me.
>
> I'm on my way with Rita (wife) to the nature of Sweden and Norway for a
> relaxing break and will be back Monday 2009-08-03. Will try to view the
> inbox now and then but won't promise anything ...
>
> /gustav





From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Mon Aug 17 13:15:38 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 22:15:38 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] LINQ for EF Example (Part III)
In-Reply-To: <sa8896ff.062@cactus.dk>
References: <sa8896ff.062@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <003601ca1f66$ba0bef30$2e23cd90$@spb.ru>

Hi Gistav, Mike and All,

TIA, Gistav.

I've got quite a bit of work here in the end of July/beginning-middle of
August - still can't continue with Northwind.NET for EF but we will make it
for sure.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 1:32 AM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] LINQ for EF Example (Part III)

Hi Shamil

This is a nice and clean example worth studying for anyone having the
slightest interest in EF.
I'll see if I can find some contribution time for it this week.

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 23-07-2009 19:17 >>>

FYI: I have just got released a small VS2008 project:

- SPJWinFormsForEF_VS2008.zip - VS2008 sample project to demonstrate
WinForms and MS ReportViewer reports bound to ADO.NET Entity Framework
object datasources;
- SPJWinFormsForEF_Executables.zip - just executables and sample database
for the above sample project.

which can be used as sample to work on converting Northwind.NET to use
ADO.NET Entity Framework object data sources.

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 4:36 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] LINQ for EF Example (Part III)

Hi Shamil and team

That's fine with me.

I'm on my way with Rita (wife) to the nature of Sweden and Norway for a
relaxing break and will be back Monday 2009-08-03. Will try to view the
inbox now and then but won't promise anything ...

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-07-2009 19:29 >>>
Hi Mike and Gustav,

Thank you for your approval to team up to develop Northwind.NET for EF.
Let's first of all implement a simple sample form (Shippers, Suppliers...)
with BindingNavigator bound to object data source, and a simple sample
report (Shippers) bound to object data source, and then implement all the
other forms and reports of Northwind.NET using samples as templates?

Do you see any other ways to proceed with this project?

Thank you.

--
Shamil


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2009 11:26 AM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] LINQ for EF Example (Part III)

Hi Shamil

Of course, in lazy summer mode, as I probably will be off for a week or so
from late next week.

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 18-07-2009 14:30 >>>
Hi Mike,

Yes, "LINQ for ADO.NET Entity Framework" to be precise :)

What about teaming-up with Gustav and myself and to port our Northwind.NET
for MS SQL 2005 to "LINQ for ADO.NET Entity Framework"? Just an idea - and
doing that project in "lazy summer mode" without setting strict deadlines?

Gustav how about you?
Anybody else?

Have nice weekend.

--
Shamil



_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


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The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

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From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Thu Aug 20 10:38:36 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 19:38:36 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications
Message-ID: <00f801ca21ac$49d8d8c0$dd8a8a40$@spb.ru>

Hi All,

 

I'm currently working on a project where I use Dynamic Data Entities Web
Applications - DDEWA-(VS2008 SP1).

 

I have tried to search Google and Bing to find some information on DDEWA but
failed.

Do you have any useful links on DDEWA?

 

Thank you.

 

--

Shamil

 



From Gustav at cactus.dk  Thu Aug 20 10:43:56 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 17:43:56 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications
Message-ID: <sa8d8b73.048@cactus.dk>

Hi Shamil

No, not me. But how did you get started on this having no info??

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 20-08-2009 17:38 >>>
Hi All,

I'm currently working on a project where I use Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications - DDEWA-(VS2008 SP1).

I have tried to search Google and Bing to find some information on DDEWA but failed.

Do you have any useful links on DDEWA?

Thank you.

--
Shamil





From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Thu Aug 20 11:06:21 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 20:06:21 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications
In-Reply-To: <sa8d8b73.048@cactus.dk>
References: <sa8d8b73.048@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <00fd01ca21b0$2a612250$7f2366f0$@spb.ru>

Hi Gustav,

VS2008 SP1: 

1. Solution: Add: New Project -> Dynamic Data Entities Web Application...
2. Project: Add: New Item -> ADO.NET Entity Data Model

The next steps are rather obvious, and Global.asax's comments give the clue
how to make the application to work.

But I can't get some more information on this type of projects. Yes, I can
investigate them but I'd prefer to have some ready to use descriptions. 

Can't find them online on MSDN....

I have just got this link, which looks interesting:

http://channel9.msdn.com/posts/matthijs/Fastest-To-Market-RAD-Web-Applicatio
ns-with-ASPNET-Dynamic-Data-and-Entity-Framework/

It's a 1+ hour video...

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 7:44 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil

No, not me. But how did you get started on this having no info??

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 20-08-2009 17:38 >>>
Hi All,

I'm currently working on a project where I use Dynamic Data Entities Web
Applications - DDEWA-(VS2008 SP1).

I have tried to search Google and Bing to find some information on DDEWA but
failed.

Do you have any useful links on DDEWA?

Thank you.

--
Shamil



_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4351 (20090820) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru


 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4351 (20090820) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 



From Gustav at cactus.dk  Thu Aug 20 11:21:31 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 18:21:31 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications
Message-ID: <sa8d943d.049@cactus.dk>

Hi Shamil

How about this, part 1 of 5:

http://www.c-sharpcorner.com/UploadFile/satisharveti/DynamicWebappln101152009023618AM/DynamicWebappln1.aspx 

Pretty basic and few illustrations only but still something.

Will see if I can find one hour for the video ...

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 20-08-2009 18:06 >>>
Hi Gustav,

VS2008 SP1: 

1. Solution: Add: New Project -> Dynamic Data Entities Web Application...
2. Project: Add: New Item -> ADO.NET Entity Data Model

The next steps are rather obvious, and Global.asax's comments give the clue
how to make the application to work.

But I can't get some more information on this type of projects. Yes, I can
investigate them but I'd prefer to have some ready to use descriptions. 

Can't find them online on MSDN....

I have just got this link, which looks interesting:

http://channel9.msdn.com/posts/matthijs/Fastest-To-Market-RAD-Web-Applications-with-ASPNET-Dynamic-Data-and-Entity-Framework/

It's a 1+ hour video...

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 7:44 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil

No, not me. But how did you get started on this having no info??

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 20-08-2009 17:38 >>>
Hi All,

I'm currently working on a project where I use Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications - DDEWA-(VS2008 SP1).

I have tried to search Google and Bing to find some information on DDEWA but failed.

Do you have any useful links on DDEWA?

Thank you.

--
Shamil





From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Thu Aug 20 14:22:49 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 23:22:49 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications
In-Reply-To: <sa8d943d.049@cactus.dk>
References: <sa8d943d.049@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <010a01ca21cb$9c846340$d58d29c0$@spb.ru>

Hi Gustav,

Thank you for the link - he parts 1 to 6 give similar to the channel9
presentation information - I watched the latter, it's a bit hectic but
useful to get general idea what Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications are
and how to customize them.

I currently plan to use Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications for initial
data entry/edit for my customer application - it works well when datamodel
is ready - just generate ASP.NET application.

I also wanted to find a way to somehow "grab" generated .aspx pages to use
them in developing custom .aspx webforms/pages: not sure yet how to do that
but it should be possible I hope as they obviously(?) generate .aspx pages
on-the-fly, and there could be a way to grab generated .aspx page before
it's getting rendered on server side...

I currently do not plan to use Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications
customization features.

Thank you.

--
Shamil 

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 8:22 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil

How about this, part 1 of 5:

http://www.c-sharpcorner.com/UploadFile/satisharveti/DynamicWebappln10115200
9023618AM/DynamicWebappln1.aspx 

Pretty basic and few illustrations only but still something.

Will see if I can find one hour for the video ...

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 20-08-2009 18:06 >>>
Hi Gustav,

VS2008 SP1: 

1. Solution: Add: New Project -> Dynamic Data Entities Web Application...
2. Project: Add: New Item -> ADO.NET Entity Data Model

The next steps are rather obvious, and Global.asax's comments give the clue
how to make the application to work.

But I can't get some more information on this type of projects. Yes, I can
investigate them but I'd prefer to have some ready to use descriptions. 

Can't find them online on MSDN....

I have just got this link, which looks interesting:

http://channel9.msdn.com/posts/matthijs/Fastest-To-Market-RAD-Web-Applicatio
ns-with-ASPNET-Dynamic-Data-and-Entity-Framework/

It's a 1+ hour video...

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 7:44 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil

No, not me. But how did you get started on this having no info??

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 20-08-2009 17:38 >>>
Hi All,

I'm currently working on a project where I use Dynamic Data Entities Web
Applications - DDEWA-(VS2008 SP1).

I have tried to search Google and Bing to find some information on DDEWA but
failed.

Do you have any useful links on DDEWA?

Thank you.

--
Shamil



_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4351 (20090820) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru


 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4353 (20090820) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 



From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Thu Aug 20 15:00:59 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 00:00:59 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications
In-Reply-To: <010a01ca21cb$9c846340$d58d29c0$@spb.ru>
References: <sa8d943d.049@cactus.dk> <010a01ca21cb$9c846340$d58d29c0$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <010b01ca21d0$f1667ba0$d43372e0$@spb.ru>

Hi All,

Here is the info from MSDN on the subject:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc488545.aspx


--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil
Salakhetdinov
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 11:23 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Gustav,

Thank you for the link - he parts 1 to 6 give similar to the channel9
presentation information - I watched the latter, it's a bit hectic but
useful to get general idea what Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications are
and how to customize them.

I currently plan to use Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications for initial
data entry/edit for my customer application - it works well when datamodel
is ready - just generate ASP.NET application.

I also wanted to find a way to somehow "grab" generated .aspx pages to use
them in developing custom .aspx webforms/pages: not sure yet how to do that
but it should be possible I hope as they obviously(?) generate .aspx pages
on-the-fly, and there could be a way to grab generated .aspx page before
it's getting rendered on server side...

I currently do not plan to use Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications
customization features.

Thank you.

--
Shamil 

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 8:22 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil

How about this, part 1 of 5:

http://www.c-sharpcorner.com/UploadFile/satisharveti/DynamicWebappln10115200
9023618AM/DynamicWebappln1.aspx 

Pretty basic and few illustrations only but still something.

Will see if I can find one hour for the video ...

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 20-08-2009 18:06 >>>
Hi Gustav,

VS2008 SP1: 

1. Solution: Add: New Project -> Dynamic Data Entities Web Application...
2. Project: Add: New Item -> ADO.NET Entity Data Model

The next steps are rather obvious, and Global.asax's comments give the clue
how to make the application to work.

But I can't get some more information on this type of projects. Yes, I can
investigate them but I'd prefer to have some ready to use descriptions. 

Can't find them online on MSDN....

I have just got this link, which looks interesting:

http://channel9.msdn.com/posts/matthijs/Fastest-To-Market-RAD-Web-Applicatio
ns-with-ASPNET-Dynamic-Data-and-Entity-Framework/

It's a 1+ hour video...

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 7:44 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil

No, not me. But how did you get started on this having no info??

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 20-08-2009 17:38 >>>
Hi All,

I'm currently working on a project where I use Dynamic Data Entities Web
Applications - DDEWA-(VS2008 SP1).

I have tried to search Google and Bing to find some information on DDEWA but
failed.

Do you have any useful links on DDEWA?

Thank you.

--
Shamil



_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4351 (20090820) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru


 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4353 (20090820) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 

_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


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The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru


 

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database 4353 (20090820) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 



From cfoust at infostatsystems.com  Thu Aug 20 17:37:24 2009
From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 15:37:24 -0700
Subject: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications
In-Reply-To: <00fd01ca21b0$2a612250$7f2366f0$@spb.ru>
References: <sa8d8b73.048@cactus.dk> <00fd01ca21b0$2a612250$7f2366f0$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <F55048AF7E974F429BB24597D7355EEABFAD70@INFOSERVER04.infostat.local>

Our project manager warned us about dynamic data entities and the MS
entity model.  No personal experience and he isn't a developer, so he's
talking about his previous job.

Charlotte Foust 

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil
Salakhetdinov
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 9:06 AM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Gustav,

VS2008 SP1: 

1. Solution: Add: New Project -> Dynamic Data Entities Web
Application...
2. Project: Add: New Item -> ADO.NET Entity Data Model

The next steps are rather obvious, and Global.asax's comments give the
clue how to make the application to work.

But I can't get some more information on this type of projects. Yes, I
can investigate them but I'd prefer to have some ready to use
descriptions. 

Can't find them online on MSDN....

I have just got this link, which looks interesting:

http://channel9.msdn.com/posts/matthijs/Fastest-To-Market-RAD-Web-Applic
atio
ns-with-ASPNET-Dynamic-Data-and-Entity-Framework/

It's a 1+ hour video...

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 7:44 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil

No, not me. But how did you get started on this having no info??

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 20-08-2009 17:38 >>>
Hi All,

I'm currently working on a project where I use Dynamic Data Entities Web
Applications - DDEWA-(VS2008 SP1).

I have tried to search Google and Bing to find some information on DDEWA
but failed.

Do you have any useful links on DDEWA?

Thank you.

--
Shamil



_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
signature database 4351 (20090820) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru


 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
signature database 4351 (20090820) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 

_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com




From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Fri Aug 21 02:57:30 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 11:57:30 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications
In-Reply-To: <F55048AF7E974F429BB24597D7355EEABFAD70@INFOSERVER04.infostat.local>
References: <sa8d8b73.048@cactus.dk> <00fd01ca21b0$2a612250$7f2366f0$@spb.ru>
	<F55048AF7E974F429BB24597D7355EEABFAD70@INFOSERVER04.infostat.local>
Message-ID: <012301ca2235$0a1e7620$1e5b6260$@spb.ru>

Hi Charlotte --

Thank you for your information.

As I noted I currently do not plan to use dynamic data entities web
applications in production but only to verify the data model design, to give
to customers/users "working model" of some of their business areas, to
prepare lookup/sample/test data: I found it very useful -  I have just
developed rather complicated data model for my customer project, clicked
several times my mouse, made a few selections, typed a few chars - and
voila' I can enter data, navigate all tables etc.

Would that be possible to get known from your project manager what are the
causes of their warnings about dynamic data entities? - I think that would
be very useful for everybody here to know about their experience to not
"step on rakes" as we say here.

BTW, customization features provided by dynamic data entities web
applications are also rather useful to implement something like "working,
real life environment simulating specification": I have got only glanced
those customization features and I have found they can be used at least to:

- develop/simulate/test some kinds of (simple) business rules/checks used
during data entry/edit;
- develop almost ready to use in ASP.NET production environment ASP.NET
custom controls.

There should be more useful features I'm quite sure.

And once again what is very important is that you can give "working model"
for your customers/users almost immediately after/during the talks with
them, they can play with it, they can get "instant fixes" for it etc. I have
checked and AFAIS ADO.NET Entity Data Model can be quickly regenerated
within VS2008 when source DB changes, and such regeneration preserves custom
edits of ADO.NET Entity Data Model objects. Good stuff. Only positive
experience so far.

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 2:37 AM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Our project manager warned us about dynamic data entities and the MS
entity model.  No personal experience and he isn't a developer, so he's
talking about his previous job.

Charlotte Foust 

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil
Salakhetdinov
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 9:06 AM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Gustav,

VS2008 SP1: 

1. Solution: Add: New Project -> Dynamic Data Entities Web
Application...
2. Project: Add: New Item -> ADO.NET Entity Data Model

The next steps are rather obvious, and Global.asax's comments give the
clue how to make the application to work.

But I can't get some more information on this type of projects. Yes, I
can investigate them but I'd prefer to have some ready to use
descriptions. 

Can't find them online on MSDN....

I have just got this link, which looks interesting:

http://channel9.msdn.com/posts/matthijs/Fastest-To-Market-RAD-Web-Applic
atio
ns-with-ASPNET-Dynamic-Data-and-Entity-Framework/

It's a 1+ hour video...

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 7:44 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil

No, not me. But how did you get started on this having no info??

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 20-08-2009 17:38 >>>
Hi All,

I'm currently working on a project where I use Dynamic Data Entities Web
Applications - DDEWA-(VS2008 SP1).

I have tried to search Google and Bing to find some information on DDEWA
but failed.

Do you have any useful links on DDEWA?

Thank you.

--
Shamil



 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4353 (20090820) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 



From Gustav at cactus.dk  Fri Aug 21 05:26:40 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 12:26:40 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications
Message-ID: <sa8e928f.060@cactus.dk>

Hi Shamil and Charlotte

I watched that video - some challenge due to the awful soundtrack - and my impression is that this dynamic data entities web is useful only for creating an interface to the complete table schema - which you hardly never use (I haven't) except for the example Shamil describes where you wish to present the full schema as well as the data content and even offer to edit this at close to zero efforts. I could imagine some kind of monitoring or admin/techie interface built this way.

For any other purpose a lot of customizing is needed which - though quite powerful, so it seems - for a decent app will take longer than building the app from scratch I guess. 

So - as I see it - this technique has its uses but app development is not on of these.

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 09:57 >>>
Hi Charlotte --

Thank you for your information.

As I noted I currently do not plan to use dynamic data entities web
applications in production but only to verify the data model design, to give
to customers/users "working model" of some of their business areas, to
prepare lookup/sample/test data: I found it very useful -  I have just
developed rather complicated data model for my customer project, clicked
several times my mouse, made a few selections, typed a few chars - and
voila' I can enter data, navigate all tables etc.

Would that be possible to get known from your project manager what are the
causes of their warnings about dynamic data entities? - I think that would
be very useful for everybody here to know about their experience to not
"step on rakes" as we say here.

BTW, customization features provided by dynamic data entities web
applications are also rather useful to implement something like "working,
real life environment simulating specification": I have got only glanced
those customization features and I have found they can be used at least to:

- develop/simulate/test some kinds of (simple) business rules/checks used during data entry/edit;
- develop almost ready to use in ASP.NET production environment ASP.NET custom controls.

There should be more useful features I'm quite sure.

And once again what is very important is that you can give "working model"
for your customers/users almost immediately after/during the talks with
them, they can play with it, they can get "instant fixes" for it etc. I have
checked and AFAIS ADO.NET Entity Data Model can be quickly regenerated
within VS2008 when source DB changes, and such regeneration preserves custom
edits of ADO.NET Entity Data Model objects. Good stuff. Only positive
experience so far.

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 2:37 AM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Our project manager warned us about dynamic data entities and the MS entity model.  No personal experience and he isn't a developer, so he's talking about his previous job.

Charlotte Foust 

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil
Salakhetdinov
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 9:06 AM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Gustav,

VS2008 SP1: 

1. Solution: Add: New Project -> Dynamic Data Entities Web Application...
2. Project: Add: New Item -> ADO.NET Entity Data Model

The next steps are rather obvious, and Global.asax's comments give the clue how to make the application to work.

But I can't get some more information on this type of projects. Yes, I can investigate them but I'd prefer to have some ready to use descriptions. 

Can't find them online on MSDN....

I have just got this link, which looks interesting:

http://channel9.msdn.com/posts/matthijs/Fastest-To-Market-RAD-Web-Applications-with-ASPNET-Dynamic-Data-and-Entity-Framework/

It's a 1+ hour video...

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 7:44 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil

No, not me. But how did you get started on this having no info??

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 20-08-2009 17:38 >>>
Hi All,

I'm currently working on a project where I use Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications - DDEWA-(VS2008 SP1).

I have tried to search Google and Bing to find some information on DDEWA but failed.

Do you have any useful links on DDEWA?

Thank you.

--
Shamil




From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Fri Aug 21 06:18:59 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 15:18:59 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications
In-Reply-To: <sa8e928f.060@cactus.dk>
References: <sa8e928f.060@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <013301ca2251$2f876c20$8e964460$@spb.ru>

Hi Gustav,

Yes, it takes "close to zero efforts" (~1 minute) to have a "web
application" for this ADO.NET entity model

http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/temp/model.jpg

which in turn was generated from MS SQL 2005 database.

<<<
...this technique has its uses but app development is not one of these...
>>>
Gustav, let me disagree with that your statement.

First of all because (sample) and lookup data entry/edit is in fact part of
our everyday real life practice of application development.

Second, because Dynamic Data Entity Web Applications (DDEWA) do help
developers to verify their data modeling decisions by "effortlessly" giving
"working models" in hands of (power-)users, and when users/developers find
there are some mistakes in those decisions then DDEWA help to quickly fix
those mistakes (as you can see from referred here video you have to just
redeploy your corrected db and corresponding .edmx file and then refresh
your browser - and you'll get the new version "up & running". This practice
of verifying data modeling decisions in real life environment is also our
everyday practice but it usually takes much more efforts when done without
DDEWA. 

Third, because as I noted you can prepare within DDEWA ready to use in real
apps "code blocks" (.ascx controls etc.) while "playing with" DDEWA (again
as you can see no need to rebuild/restart the application - just refresh
your browser - well, that is a consequence of ASP.NET technology used for
DDEWA)

Fourth, as we talked here before, ADO.NET Entity Data Model will allow in
the (near) future to generate actual database models from ADO.NET Entity
models - wouldn't that become soon our everyday development practice?
(Imagine you start from use cases/user stories, develop customs classes and
business functionality based on ADO.NET Entity objects, develop unit tests,
then generate database model, develop integration tests, generate/customize
application interface... - and you're done. (of course I'm simplifying here
the real picture but IMO mainstream direction is presented correctly?))

Fifth, as we can see DDEWA user interface is generated from ADO.NET Entity
Model and this model (which is currently in the referred above case is
simply generated from database model) can be made having "Super-Entities"
modeling user interfaces' underplaying data, these "Super-Entities" can have
relations used by DDEWA to navigate between them... - IOW this is a way to
simulate real life apps user interfaces and navigation, and then "just add"
a mapping from "Super-Entities" to database entities...

...

DDEWA looks here very challenging and in the same time helpful to our
everyday development practices, not a "silver bullet" of course as we're
getting more and more complicated business tasks to automate but they
(DDEWA) promise to get out "yet another routine everyday work" from the
shoulders of developers...

Thank you.

--
Shamil 

P.S. The idea of DDEWA to generate user interface doesn't look original - we
have seen many "wizard tools" like that (I have even participated in
developing tools like that for different platforms, did you?) - but
implementation of this idea by MS folks and the ways to (re-)use this
implementation for real life apps development look very powerful, useful and
challenging from here. My five stars (*****) to MS DDEWA technology
developers.

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 2:27 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil and Charlotte

I watched that video - some challenge due to the awful soundtrack - and my
impression is that this dynamic data entities web is useful only for
creating an interface to the complete table schema - which you hardly never
use (I haven't) except for the example Shamil describes where you wish to
present the full schema as well as the data content and even offer to edit
this at close to zero efforts. I could imagine some kind of monitoring or
admin/techie interface built this way.

For any other purpose a lot of customizing is needed which - though quite
powerful, so it seems - for a decent app will take longer than building the
app from scratch I guess. 

So - as I see it - this technique has its uses but app development is not on
of these.

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 09:57 >>>
Hi Charlotte --

Thank you for your information.

As I noted I currently do not plan to use dynamic data entities web
applications in production but only to verify the data model design, to give
to customers/users "working model" of some of their business areas, to
prepare lookup/sample/test data: I found it very useful -  I have just
developed rather complicated data model for my customer project, clicked
several times my mouse, made a few selections, typed a few chars - and
voila' I can enter data, navigate all tables etc.

Would that be possible to get known from your project manager what are the
causes of their warnings about dynamic data entities? - I think that would
be very useful for everybody here to know about their experience to not
"step on rakes" as we say here.

BTW, customization features provided by dynamic data entities web
applications are also rather useful to implement something like "working,
real life environment simulating specification": I have got only glanced
those customization features and I have found they can be used at least to:

- develop/simulate/test some kinds of (simple) business rules/checks used
during data entry/edit;
- develop almost ready to use in ASP.NET production environment ASP.NET
custom controls.

There should be more useful features I'm quite sure.

And once again what is very important is that you can give "working model"
for your customers/users almost immediately after/during the talks with
them, they can play with it, they can get "instant fixes" for it etc. I have
checked and AFAIS ADO.NET Entity Data Model can be quickly regenerated
within VS2008 when source DB changes, and such regeneration preserves custom
edits of ADO.NET Entity Data Model objects. Good stuff. Only positive
experience so far.

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 2:37 AM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Our project manager warned us about dynamic data entities and the MS entity
model.  No personal experience and he isn't a developer, so he's talking
about his previous job.

Charlotte Foust 

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil
Salakhetdinov
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 9:06 AM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Gustav,

VS2008 SP1: 

1. Solution: Add: New Project -> Dynamic Data Entities Web Application...
2. Project: Add: New Item -> ADO.NET Entity Data Model

The next steps are rather obvious, and Global.asax's comments give the clue
how to make the application to work.

But I can't get some more information on this type of projects. Yes, I can
investigate them but I'd prefer to have some ready to use descriptions. 

Can't find them online on MSDN....

I have just got this link, which looks interesting:

http://channel9.msdn.com/posts/matthijs/Fastest-To-Market-RAD-Web-Applicatio
ns-with-ASPNET-Dynamic-Data-and-Entity-Framework/

It's a 1+ hour video...

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 7:44 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil

No, not me. But how did you get started on this having no info??

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 20-08-2009 17:38 >>>
Hi All,

I'm currently working on a project where I use Dynamic Data Entities Web
Applications - DDEWA-(VS2008 SP1).

I have tried to search Google and Bing to find some information on DDEWA but
failed.

Do you have any useful links on DDEWA?

Thank you.

--
Shamil






From Gustav at cactus.dk  Fri Aug 21 07:44:57 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:44:57 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications
Message-ID: <sa8eb310.072@cactus.dk>

Hi Shamil

My comments were not on the ADO.NET Entity Data Model which I find very promising.

Your example of a "superuser" having access to the schema and full (test) data is what I meant with a admin/techie app which I believe can be useful - only have I never met a client which had much more than just a sense of what the database is about.

I agree with you that dynamic data entities web tool seems to be very well engineered.

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 13:18 >>>
Hi Gustav,

Yes, it takes "close to zero efforts" (~1 minute) to have a "web
application" for this ADO.NET entity model

http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/temp/model.jpg 

which in turn was generated from MS SQL 2005 database.

<<<
...this technique has its uses but app development is not one of these...
>>>
Gustav, let me disagree with that your statement.

First of all because (sample) and lookup data entry/edit is in fact part of
our everyday real life practice of application development.

Second, because Dynamic Data Entity Web Applications (DDEWA) do help
developers to verify their data modeling decisions by "effortlessly" giving
"working models" in hands of (power-)users, and when users/developers find
there are some mistakes in those decisions then DDEWA help to quickly fix
those mistakes (as you can see from referred here video you have to just
redeploy your corrected db and corresponding .edmx file and then refresh
your browser - and you'll get the new version "up & running". This practice
of verifying data modeling decisions in real life environment is also our
everyday practice but it usually takes much more efforts when done without
DDEWA. 

Third, because as I noted you can prepare within DDEWA ready to use in real
apps "code blocks" (.ascx controls etc.) while "playing with" DDEWA (again
as you can see no need to rebuild/restart the application - just refresh
your browser - well, that is a consequence of ASP.NET technology used for
DDEWA)

Fourth, as we talked here before, ADO.NET Entity Data Model will allow in
the (near) future to generate actual database models from ADO.NET Entity
models - wouldn't that become soon our everyday development practice?
(Imagine you start from use cases/user stories, develop customs classes and
business functionality based on ADO.NET Entity objects, develop unit tests,
then generate database model, develop integration tests, generate/customize
application interface... - and you're done. (of course I'm simplifying here
the real picture but IMO mainstream direction is presented correctly?))

Fifth, as we can see DDEWA user interface is generated from ADO.NET Entity
Model and this model (which is currently in the referred above case is
simply generated from database model) can be made having "Super-Entities"
modeling user interfaces' underplaying data, these "Super-Entities" can have
relations used by DDEWA to navigate between them... - IOW this is a way to
simulate real life apps user interfaces and navigation, and then "just add"
a mapping from "Super-Entities" to database entities...

...

DDEWA looks here very challenging and in the same time helpful to our
everyday development practices, not a "silver bullet" of course as we're
getting more and more complicated business tasks to automate but they
(DDEWA) promise to get out "yet another routine everyday work" from the
shoulders of developers...

Thank you.

--
Shamil 

P.S. The idea of DDEWA to generate user interface doesn't look original - we
have seen many "wizard tools" like that (I have even participated in
developing tools like that for different platforms, did you?) - but
implementation of this idea by MS folks and the ways to (re-)use this
implementation for real life apps development look very powerful, useful and
challenging from here. My five stars (*****) to MS DDEWA technology
developers.

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 2:27 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil and Charlotte

I watched that video - some challenge due to the awful soundtrack - and my
impression is that this dynamic data entities web is useful only for
creating an interface to the complete table schema - which you hardly never
use (I haven't) except for the example Shamil describes where you wish to
present the full schema as well as the data content and even offer to edit
this at close to zero efforts. I could imagine some kind of monitoring or
admin/techie interface built this way.

For any other purpose a lot of customizing is needed which - though quite
powerful, so it seems - for a decent app will take longer than building the
app from scratch I guess. 

So - as I see it - this technique has its uses but app development is not on
of these.

/gustav




From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Fri Aug 21 11:07:59 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 20:07:59 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications
In-Reply-To: <sa8eb310.072@cactus.dk>
References: <sa8eb310.072@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <014301ca2279$8fc9e180$af5da480$@spb.ru>

Hi Gustav --

Yes, I do know that you find ADO.NET Entity Data Model very promising.

And I only wanted to note that I find DDEWA also very promising to perform
quite some routine work we and our customers/"super-users" are doing
manually nowadays.

BTW, as far as I see/can guess DDEWA are implemented using very similar to
ASP.NET MVC Framework approach: I mean they seems to be using "some tricks"
on top of ASP.NET engine to generate on-the-fly ASP.NET controls and web
forms and "feed" ASP.NET engine using these generated web forms/controls. I
can be wrong. Just guessing...

I will continue my R&D with DDEWA and if I find something interesting I will
post this information here.

BTW, I'm currently trying to customize the order of the list of the tables
shown on the first page (Default.aspx) of my DDEWA, any ideas?

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 4:45 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil

My comments were not on the ADO.NET Entity Data Model which I find very
promising.

Your example of a "superuser" having access to the schema and full (test)
data is what I meant with a admin/techie app which I believe can be useful -
only have I never met a client which had much more than just a sense of what
the database is about.

I agree with you that dynamic data entities web tool seems to be very well
engineered.

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 13:18 >>>
Hi Gustav,

Yes, it takes "close to zero efforts" (~1 minute) to have a "web
application" for this ADO.NET entity model

http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/temp/model.jpg 

which in turn was generated from MS SQL 2005 database.

<<<
...this technique has its uses but app development is not one of these...
>>>
Gustav, let me disagree with that your statement.

First of all because (sample) and lookup data entry/edit is in fact part of
our everyday real life practice of application development.

Second, because Dynamic Data Entity Web Applications (DDEWA) do help
developers to verify their data modeling decisions by "effortlessly" giving
"working models" in hands of (power-)users, and when users/developers find
there are some mistakes in those decisions then DDEWA help to quickly fix
those mistakes (as you can see from referred here video you have to just
redeploy your corrected db and corresponding .edmx file and then refresh
your browser - and you'll get the new version "up & running". This practice
of verifying data modeling decisions in real life environment is also our
everyday practice but it usually takes much more efforts when done without
DDEWA. 

Third, because as I noted you can prepare within DDEWA ready to use in real
apps "code blocks" (.ascx controls etc.) while "playing with" DDEWA (again
as you can see no need to rebuild/restart the application - just refresh
your browser - well, that is a consequence of ASP.NET technology used for
DDEWA)

Fourth, as we talked here before, ADO.NET Entity Data Model will allow in
the (near) future to generate actual database models from ADO.NET Entity
models - wouldn't that become soon our everyday development practice?
(Imagine you start from use cases/user stories, develop customs classes and
business functionality based on ADO.NET Entity objects, develop unit tests,
then generate database model, develop integration tests, generate/customize
application interface... - and you're done. (of course I'm simplifying here
the real picture but IMO mainstream direction is presented correctly?))

Fifth, as we can see DDEWA user interface is generated from ADO.NET Entity
Model and this model (which is currently in the referred above case is
simply generated from database model) can be made having "Super-Entities"
modeling user interfaces' underplaying data, these "Super-Entities" can have
relations used by DDEWA to navigate between them... - IOW this is a way to
simulate real life apps user interfaces and navigation, and then "just add"
a mapping from "Super-Entities" to database entities...

...

DDEWA looks here very challenging and in the same time helpful to our
everyday development practices, not a "silver bullet" of course as we're
getting more and more complicated business tasks to automate but they
(DDEWA) promise to get out "yet another routine everyday work" from the
shoulders of developers...

Thank you.

--
Shamil 

P.S. The idea of DDEWA to generate user interface doesn't look original - we
have seen many "wizard tools" like that (I have even participated in
developing tools like that for different platforms, did you?) - but
implementation of this idea by MS folks and the ways to (re-)use this
implementation for real life apps development look very powerful, useful and
challenging from here. My five stars (*****) to MS DDEWA technology
developers.

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 2:27 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil and Charlotte

I watched that video - some challenge due to the awful soundtrack - and my
impression is that this dynamic data entities web is useful only for
creating an interface to the complete table schema - which you hardly never
use (I haven't) except for the example Shamil describes where you wish to
present the full schema as well as the data content and even offer to edit
this at close to zero efforts. I could imagine some kind of monitoring or
admin/techie interface built this way.

For any other purpose a lot of customizing is needed which - though quite
powerful, so it seems - for a decent app will take longer than building the
app from scratch I guess. 

So - as I see it - this technique has its uses but app development is not on
of these.

/gustav


_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


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From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Fri Aug 21 14:57:10 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 23:57:10 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Click-Once stopped to work on my Vista PC....
Message-ID: <016301ca2299$93cf56a0$bb6e03e0$@spb.ru>

Hi All,

 

If you remember I have had a posting on the subject issue here - the issue
was caused by the fact that .application extension did get Notepad as
default edit program - when you set default program back to "Application
Deployment Support Library" then Click-Once does start to work well again.
The answer came from StackOverflow. 

 

Thank you.

 

--

Shamil



From Gustav at cactus.dk  Fri Aug 21 16:25:57 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 23:25:57 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications
Message-ID: <sa8f2d25.082@cactus.dk>

Hi Shamil

Yes, please post your findings please.

As for the order of the tables, isn't it just based on the enumeration in SQL Server?

/gustav

>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 18:07 >>>
Hi Gustav --

Yes, I do know that you find ADO.NET Entity Data Model very promising.

And I only wanted to note that I find DDEWA also very promising to perform
quite some routine work we and our customers/"super-users" are doing
manually nowadays.

BTW, as far as I see/can guess DDEWA are implemented using very similar to
ASP.NET MVC Framework approach: I mean they seems to be using "some tricks"
on top of ASP.NET engine to generate on-the-fly ASP.NET controls and web
forms and "feed" ASP.NET engine using these generated web forms/controls. I
can be wrong. Just guessing...

I will continue my R&D with DDEWA and if I find something interesting I will
post this information here.

BTW, I'm currently trying to customize the order of the list of the tables
shown on the first page (Default.aspx) of my DDEWA, any ideas?

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 4:45 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil

My comments were not on the ADO.NET Entity Data Model which I find very
promising.

Your example of a "superuser" having access to the schema and full (test)
data is what I meant with a admin/techie app which I believe can be useful -
only have I never met a client which had much more than just a sense of what
the database is about.

I agree with you that dynamic data entities web tool seems to be very well
engineered.

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 13:18 >>>
Hi Gustav,

Yes, it takes "close to zero efforts" (~1 minute) to have a "web
application" for this ADO.NET entity model

http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/temp/model.jpg 

which in turn was generated from MS SQL 2005 database.

<<<
...this technique has its uses but app development is not one of these...
>>>
Gustav, let me disagree with that your statement.

First of all because (sample) and lookup data entry/edit is in fact part of
our everyday real life practice of application development.

Second, because Dynamic Data Entity Web Applications (DDEWA) do help
developers to verify their data modeling decisions by "effortlessly" giving
"working models" in hands of (power-)users, and when users/developers find
there are some mistakes in those decisions then DDEWA help to quickly fix
those mistakes (as you can see from referred here video you have to just
redeploy your corrected db and corresponding .edmx file and then refresh
your browser - and you'll get the new version "up & running". This practice
of verifying data modeling decisions in real life environment is also our
everyday practice but it usually takes much more efforts when done without
DDEWA. 

Third, because as I noted you can prepare within DDEWA ready to use in real
apps "code blocks" (.ascx controls etc.) while "playing with" DDEWA (again
as you can see no need to rebuild/restart the application - just refresh
your browser - well, that is a consequence of ASP.NET technology used for
DDEWA)

Fourth, as we talked here before, ADO.NET Entity Data Model will allow in
the (near) future to generate actual database models from ADO.NET Entity
models - wouldn't that become soon our everyday development practice?
(Imagine you start from use cases/user stories, develop customs classes and
business functionality based on ADO.NET Entity objects, develop unit tests,
then generate database model, develop integration tests, generate/customize
application interface... - and you're done. (of course I'm simplifying here
the real picture but IMO mainstream direction is presented correctly?))

Fifth, as we can see DDEWA user interface is generated from ADO.NET Entity
Model and this model (which is currently in the referred above case is
simply generated from database model) can be made having "Super-Entities"
modeling user interfaces' underplaying data, these "Super-Entities" can have
relations used by DDEWA to navigate between them... - IOW this is a way to
simulate real life apps user interfaces and navigation, and then "just add"
a mapping from "Super-Entities" to database entities...

...

DDEWA looks here very challenging and in the same time helpful to our
everyday development practices, not a "silver bullet" of course as we're
getting more and more complicated business tasks to automate but they
(DDEWA) promise to get out "yet another routine everyday work" from the
shoulders of developers...

Thank you.

--
Shamil 

P.S. The idea of DDEWA to generate user interface doesn't look original - we
have seen many "wizard tools" like that (I have even participated in
developing tools like that for different platforms, did you?) - but
implementation of this idea by MS folks and the ways to (re-)use this
implementation for real life apps development look very powerful, useful and
challenging from here. My five stars (*****) to MS DDEWA technology
developers.

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 2:27 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil and Charlotte

I watched that video - some challenge due to the awful soundtrack - and my
impression is that this dynamic data entities web is useful only for
creating an interface to the complete table schema - which you hardly never
use (I haven't) except for the example Shamil describes where you wish to
present the full schema as well as the data content and even offer to edit
this at close to zero efforts. I could imagine some kind of monitoring or
admin/techie interface built this way.

For any other purpose a lot of customizing is needed which - though quite
powerful, so it seems - for a decent app will take longer than building the
app from scratch I guess. 

So - as I see it - this technique has its uses but app development is not on
of these.

/gustav



From Gustav at cactus.dk  Fri Aug 21 16:28:24 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 23:28:24 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] Click-Once stopped to work on my Vista PC....
Message-ID: <sa8f2dbc.083@cactus.dk>

Hi Shamil

No, I forgot about that posting. However, I wouldn't have thought of a solution like the one you describe. Thanks for the tip (or warning)!

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 21:57 >>>
Hi All,

If you remember I have had a posting on the subject issue here - the issue
was caused by the fact that .application extension did get Notepad as
default edit program - when you set default program back to "Application
Deployment Support Library" then Click-Once does start to work well again.
The answer came from StackOverflow. 

Thank you.

--
Shamil





From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Fri Aug 21 23:04:26 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 00:04:26 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Click-Once stopped to work on my Vista PC....
In-Reply-To: <sa8f2dbc.083@cactus.dk>
References: <sa8f2dbc.083@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <4A8F6E4A.8080107@colbyconsulting.com>

So you guys are using VB.Net express?  Or C# express?

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi Shamil
> 
> No, I forgot about that posting. However, I wouldn't have thought of a solution like the one you describe. Thanks for the tip (or warning)!
> 
> /gustav
> 
> 
>>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 21:57 >>>
> Hi All,
> 
> If you remember I have had a posting on the subject issue here - the issue
> was caused by the fact that .application extension did get Notepad as
> default edit program - when you set default program back to "Application
> Deployment Support Library" then Click-Once does start to work well again.
> The answer came from StackOverflow. 
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> --
> Shamil
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 


From Gustav at cactus.dk  Sat Aug 22 02:28:48 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 09:28:48 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] Click-Once stopped to work on my Vista PC....
Message-ID: <sa8fba66.084@cactus.dk>

Hi John

No, I use VS2008 Standard Edition. Comes with the MAPS (Microsoft Action Pack Subscription) - if you pass a tiny test as described in earlier postings.

/gustav

>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 22-08-2009 06:04 >>>
So you guys are using VB.Net express?  Or C# express?

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com 


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi Shamil
> 
> No, I forgot about that posting. However, I wouldn't have thought of a solution like the one you describe. Thanks for the tip (or warning)!
> 
> /gustav
> 
> 
>>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 21:57 >>>
> Hi All,
> 
> If you remember I have had a posting on the subject issue here - the issue
> was caused by the fact that .application extension did get Notepad as
> default edit program - when you set default program back to "Application
> Deployment Support Library" then Click-Once does start to work well again.
> The answer came from StackOverflow. 
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> --
> Shamil




From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Sat Aug 22 05:14:55 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 14:14:55 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Click-Once stopped to work on my Vista PC....
In-Reply-To: <sa8f2dbc.083@cactus.dk>
References: <sa8f2dbc.083@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <001a01ca2311$66fddd90$34f998b0$@spb.ru>

Hi Gustav,

Yes, that solution, which came from StackOverflow, is awesome as one
developer noted there: if you have just get opened any .application-type
file in notepad, and you'll have "use this application as default" checkbox
checked - and it's checked by default, and nobody usually unchecks it - then
you get this weird Click-Once setup behavior when it starts correctly but
then informs you that you have improper version of .NET Framework
installed... and all you need is in fact just to set back default program
for .application type files...

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 1:28 AM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Click-Once stopped to work on my Vista PC....

Hi Shamil

No, I forgot about that posting. However, I wouldn't have thought of a
solution like the one you describe. Thanks for the tip (or warning)!

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 21:57 >>>
Hi All,

If you remember I have had a posting on the subject issue here - the issue
was caused by the fact that .application extension did get Notepad as
default edit program - when you set default program back to "Application
Deployment Support Library" then Click-Once does start to work well again.
The answer came from StackOverflow. 

Thank you.

--
Shamil



_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4357 (20090821) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru


 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4357 (20090821) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 



From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Sat Aug 22 05:14:55 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 14:14:55 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Click-Once stopped to work on my Vista PC....
In-Reply-To: <4A8F6E4A.8080107@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <sa8f2dbc.083@cactus.dk> <4A8F6E4A.8080107@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <001b01ca2311$68756260$39602720$@spb.ru>

Hi John,

No, I use VS2008 Professional.

Click-Once is one of the methods of .NET Framework applications setup.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 8:04 AM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Click-Once stopped to work on my Vista PC....

So you guys are using VB.Net express?  Or C# express?

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi Shamil
> 
> No, I forgot about that posting. However, I wouldn't have thought of a
solution like the one you describe. Thanks for the tip (or warning)!
> 
> /gustav
> 
> 
>>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 21:57 >>>
> Hi All,
> 
> If you remember I have had a posting on the subject issue here - the issue
> was caused by the fact that .application extension did get Notepad as
> default edit program - when you set default program back to "Application
> Deployment Support Library" then Click-Once does start to work well again.
> The answer came from StackOverflow. 
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> --
> Shamil
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 
_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4357 (20090821) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru


 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4357 (20090821) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 



From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Sat Aug 22 05:18:33 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 14:18:33 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications
In-Reply-To: <sa8f2d25.082@cactus.dk>
References: <sa8f2d25.082@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <001c01ca2311$e8cf5b00$ba6e1100$@spb.ru>

Hi Gustav,

I gave got one issue with DDEWA already - one of the tables "doesn't want"
to be opened/viewed - ASP.NET runtime error is reported. No clue yet how to
workaround this issue. Isn't that one of the causes Charlotte warned about
referring to her manager experience in another company?

The tables are ordered alphabetically and I wanted to get them ordered
special custom way.

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 1:26 AM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil

Yes, please post your findings please.

As for the order of the tables, isn't it just based on the enumeration in
SQL Server?

/gustav

>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 18:07 >>>
Hi Gustav --

Yes, I do know that you find ADO.NET Entity Data Model very promising.

And I only wanted to note that I find DDEWA also very promising to perform
quite some routine work we and our customers/"super-users" are doing
manually nowadays.

BTW, as far as I see/can guess DDEWA are implemented using very similar to
ASP.NET MVC Framework approach: I mean they seems to be using "some tricks"
on top of ASP.NET engine to generate on-the-fly ASP.NET controls and web
forms and "feed" ASP.NET engine using these generated web forms/controls. I
can be wrong. Just guessing...

I will continue my R&D with DDEWA and if I find something interesting I will
post this information here.

BTW, I'm currently trying to customize the order of the list of the tables
shown on the first page (Default.aspx) of my DDEWA, any ideas?

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 4:45 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil

My comments were not on the ADO.NET Entity Data Model which I find very
promising.

Your example of a "superuser" having access to the schema and full (test)
data is what I meant with a admin/techie app which I believe can be useful -
only have I never met a client which had much more than just a sense of what
the database is about.

I agree with you that dynamic data entities web tool seems to be very well
engineered.

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 13:18 >>>
Hi Gustav,

Yes, it takes "close to zero efforts" (~1 minute) to have a "web
application" for this ADO.NET entity model

http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/temp/model.jpg 

which in turn was generated from MS SQL 2005 database.

<<<
...this technique has its uses but app development is not one of these...
>>>
Gustav, let me disagree with that your statement.

First of all because (sample) and lookup data entry/edit is in fact part of
our everyday real life practice of application development.

Second, because Dynamic Data Entity Web Applications (DDEWA) do help
developers to verify their data modeling decisions by "effortlessly" giving
"working models" in hands of (power-)users, and when users/developers find
there are some mistakes in those decisions then DDEWA help to quickly fix
those mistakes (as you can see from referred here video you have to just
redeploy your corrected db and corresponding .edmx file and then refresh
your browser - and you'll get the new version "up & running". This practice
of verifying data modeling decisions in real life environment is also our
everyday practice but it usually takes much more efforts when done without
DDEWA. 

Third, because as I noted you can prepare within DDEWA ready to use in real
apps "code blocks" (.ascx controls etc.) while "playing with" DDEWA (again
as you can see no need to rebuild/restart the application - just refresh
your browser - well, that is a consequence of ASP.NET technology used for
DDEWA)

Fourth, as we talked here before, ADO.NET Entity Data Model will allow in
the (near) future to generate actual database models from ADO.NET Entity
models - wouldn't that become soon our everyday development practice?
(Imagine you start from use cases/user stories, develop customs classes and
business functionality based on ADO.NET Entity objects, develop unit tests,
then generate database model, develop integration tests, generate/customize
application interface... - and you're done. (of course I'm simplifying here
the real picture but IMO mainstream direction is presented correctly?))

Fifth, as we can see DDEWA user interface is generated from ADO.NET Entity
Model and this model (which is currently in the referred above case is
simply generated from database model) can be made having "Super-Entities"
modeling user interfaces' underplaying data, these "Super-Entities" can have
relations used by DDEWA to navigate between them... - IOW this is a way to
simulate real life apps user interfaces and navigation, and then "just add"
a mapping from "Super-Entities" to database entities...

...

DDEWA looks here very challenging and in the same time helpful to our
everyday development practices, not a "silver bullet" of course as we're
getting more and more complicated business tasks to automate but they
(DDEWA) promise to get out "yet another routine everyday work" from the
shoulders of developers...

Thank you.

--
Shamil 

P.S. The idea of DDEWA to generate user interface doesn't look original - we
have seen many "wizard tools" like that (I have even participated in
developing tools like that for different platforms, did you?) - but
implementation of this idea by MS folks and the ways to (re-)use this
implementation for real life apps development look very powerful, useful and
challenging from here. My five stars (*****) to MS DDEWA technology
developers.

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 2:27 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil and Charlotte

I watched that video - some challenge due to the awful soundtrack - and my
impression is that this dynamic data entities web is useful only for
creating an interface to the complete table schema - which you hardly never
use (I haven't) except for the example Shamil describes where you wish to
present the full schema as well as the data content and even offer to edit
this at close to zero efforts. I could imagine some kind of monitoring or
admin/techie interface built this way.

For any other purpose a lot of customizing is needed which - though quite
powerful, so it seems - for a decent app will take longer than building the
app from scratch I guess. 

So - as I see it - this technique has its uses but app development is not on
of these.

/gustav

_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4357 (20090821) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru





From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Sat Aug 22 08:20:09 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 09:20:09 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Click-Once stopped to work on my Vista PC....
In-Reply-To: <sa8fba66.084@cactus.dk>
References: <sa8fba66.084@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <4A8FF089.1010105@colbyconsulting.com>

I was also inquiring about the specific language you guys are using, VB or C#.

So what is the story in terms of compatibility between the express editions and the standard?  I 
know that there are express edition things that won't work in the standard edition (at least for VB) 
but if you don't use those can the code be worked in the standard edition environment.  IOW can a 
project be worked on in both environments.

I own the standard edition but my thought is that the express edition is free.  I know the response 
to your solicitations to work on the projects haven't been overwhelming, but if people do want to 
participate, the cost of the standard edition might be a stopper.  As an example IIRC William uses 
the free editions.

Also is there something in the standard edition that makes it a must have, capabilities that the 
express edition does not have.  Obviously there is SOMETHING.  How about the one click publishing. 
Is that unavailable in the express edition?

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi John
> 
> No, I use VS2008 Standard Edition. Comes with the MAPS (Microsoft Action Pack Subscription) - if you pass a tiny test as described in earlier postings.
> 
> /gustav
> 
>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 22-08-2009 06:04 >>>
> So you guys are using VB.Net express?  Or C# express?
> 
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com 
> 
> 
> Gustav Brock wrote:
>> Hi Shamil
>>
>> No, I forgot about that posting. However, I wouldn't have thought of a solution like the one you describe. Thanks for the tip (or warning)!
>>
>> /gustav
>>
>>
>>>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 21:57 >>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> If you remember I have had a posting on the subject issue here - the issue
>> was caused by the fact that .application extension did get Notepad as
>> default edit program - when you set default program back to "Application
>> Deployment Support Library" then Click-Once does start to work well again.
>> The answer came from StackOverflow. 
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> --
>> Shamil
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 


From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Sat Aug 22 08:40:30 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 09:40:30 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Click-Once stopped to work on my Vista PC....
In-Reply-To: <4A8FF089.1010105@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <sa8fba66.084@cactus.dk> <4A8FF089.1010105@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <4A8FF54E.1090406@colbyconsulting.com>

Never mind, I found a comparison chart.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


jwcolby wrote:
> I was also inquiring about the specific language you guys are using, VB or C#.
> 
> So what is the story in terms of compatibility between the express editions and the standard?  I 
> know that there are express edition things that won't work in the standard edition (at least for VB) 
> but if you don't use those can the code be worked in the standard edition environment.  IOW can a 
> project be worked on in both environments.
> 
> I own the standard edition but my thought is that the express edition is free.  I know the response 
> to your solicitations to work on the projects haven't been overwhelming, but if people do want to 
> participate, the cost of the standard edition might be a stopper.  As an example IIRC William uses 
> the free editions.
> 
> Also is there something in the standard edition that makes it a must have, capabilities that the 
> express edition does not have.  Obviously there is SOMETHING.  How about the one click publishing. 
> Is that unavailable in the express edition?
> 
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com
> 
> 
> Gustav Brock wrote:
>> Hi John
>>
>> No, I use VS2008 Standard Edition. Comes with the MAPS (Microsoft Action Pack Subscription) - if you pass a tiny test as described in earlier postings.
>>
>> /gustav



From Gustav at cactus.dk  Sat Aug 22 16:26:31 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 23:26:31 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] Click-Once stopped to work on my Vista PC....
Message-ID: <sa907eca.091@cactus.dk>

Hi John

C# exclusively. I found the VB.NET syntax too weird, and after having programmed in VBA (Access Basic) for a decade (and a little Pascal and Prolog before that) I decided it was time to learn something new. 

/gustav

>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 22-08-2009 15:20 >>>
I was also inquiring about the specific language you guys are using, VB or C#.





From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Sat Aug 22 16:47:52 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 17:47:52 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] SPAM-LOW: Re: Click-Once stopped to work on my Vista
 PC....
In-Reply-To: <sa907eca.091@cactus.dk>
References: <sa907eca.091@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <4A906788.5020201@colbyconsulting.com>

Thanks for the reply Gustav.

I programmed a uController in C for almost two years from 1996-1997.  I haven't done any C since 
however.  I think I will take the plunge as well.

I did a fair bit of VB.Net about two years ago but now I have to get back into .net.

I actually have an application that I am thinking of doing in .Net.  It could be done in Access but 
it is simple enough to make it a perfect "started app" for getting back into .net,  and it could 
grow big and then having it in .Net could be a real advantage.  Plus it would be sold which means 
distribution.  OneClick distribution is calling me.

;)

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi John
> 
> C# exclusively. I found the VB.NET syntax too weird, and after having programmed in VBA (Access Basic) for a decade (and a little Pascal and Prolog before that) I decided it was time to learn something new. 
> 
> /gustav
> 
>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 22-08-2009 15:20 >>>
> I was also inquiring about the specific language you guys are using, VB or C#.
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 


From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Sat Aug 22 16:52:16 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 01:52:16 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Click-Once stopped to work on my Vista PC....
In-Reply-To: <4A8FF089.1010105@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <sa8fba66.084@cactus.dk> <4A8FF089.1010105@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <002d01ca2372$d225b190$767114b0$@spb.ru>

<<<
Also is there something in the standard edition that makes it a must have,
capabilities that the 
express edition does not have.  Obviously there is SOMETHING.  How about the
one click publishing. 
Is that unavailable in the express edition?
>>>
Hi John,

I don't know - last time I checked - in the beginning of Northwind.NET
project this spring all VS 2008 professional projects were built OK under C#
2008 Express. You can try to download projects from

http://northwind.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=26600

and check if anything will not compile under C# 2008 Express.

VS - higher versions - they provide some more software development
automation features - but that should be it - after all one can develop any
kind of .NET applications using notepad.exe, .NET Framework and MS Build
(from .NET Framework SDK)  (MS Build is not even needed I suppose - AFAIK it
provides some automation of compilation of sources and of building of
executables(I can be wrong here, I don't know all the details on MS Build))
- all are free to download, to use for software development and to
distribute developed apps...

<<<
I was also inquiring about the specific language you guys are using, VB or
C#.
>>>
I prefer C#.
I'd not mind to use VB if somebody will invite me to participate in an
interesting project where VB will be selected to be the main development
language...
I'd be even more interested to participate in an project where IronRuby will
be selected as the main development language (FYI:I currently have 1%
knowledge on Ruby/IronRuby)...

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 5:20 PM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Click-Once stopped to work on my Vista PC....

I was also inquiring about the specific language you guys are using, VB or
C#.

So what is the story in terms of compatibility between the express editions
and the standard?  I 
know that there are express edition things that won't work in the standard
edition (at least for VB) 
but if you don't use those can the code be worked in the standard edition
environment.  IOW can a 
project be worked on in both environments.

I own the standard edition but my thought is that the express edition is
free.  I know the response 
to your solicitations to work on the projects haven't been overwhelming, but
if people do want to 
participate, the cost of the standard edition might be a stopper.  As an
example IIRC William uses 
the free editions.

Also is there something in the standard edition that makes it a must have,
capabilities that the 
express edition does not have.  Obviously there is SOMETHING.  How about the
one click publishing. 
Is that unavailable in the express edition?

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi John
> 
> No, I use VS2008 Standard Edition. Comes with the MAPS (Microsoft Action
Pack Subscription) - if you pass a tiny test as described in earlier
postings.
> 
> /gustav
> 
>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 22-08-2009 06:04 >>>
> So you guys are using VB.Net express?  Or C# express?
> 
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com 
> 
> 
> Gustav Brock wrote:
>> Hi Shamil
>>
>> No, I forgot about that posting. However, I wouldn't have thought of a
solution like the one you describe. Thanks for the tip (or warning)!
>>
>> /gustav
>>
>>
>>>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 21:57 >>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> If you remember I have had a posting on the subject issue here - the
issue
>> was caused by the fact that .application extension did get Notepad as
>> default edit program - when you set default program back to "Application
>> Deployment Support Library" then Click-Once does start to work well
again.
>> The answer came from StackOverflow. 
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> --
>> Shamil
> 
> 

 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4359 (20090822) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 



From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Sun Aug 23 12:46:39 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 21:46:39 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications
In-Reply-To: <001c01ca2311$e8cf5b00$ba6e1100$@spb.ru>
References: <sa8f2d25.082@cactus.dk> <001c01ca2311$e8cf5b00$ba6e1100$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <000601ca2419$ac4a8e30$04dfaa90$@spb.ru>

Hi All,

I have solved mentioned below issue by regenerating ADO.NET Entity Model:
unfortunately that seems to be the only solution now - I'm writing
unfortunately because regeneration forced me to get lost all my manual
edits. Not that a big issue as my edits were mainly "cosmetic" - if to not
count several hours, which I tried to find a workaround, which would allow
me to preserve my "cosmetic" changes...

I have also found that if I try to add new relationships to the source
database and then use DDEWA to get updated only those relationships info in
generated ADO.NET Entity Model then weird compiled errors appear, e.g.:

Error 3007: Problem in Mapping Fragments starting at lines 2291, 2985: Non-
Primary-Key column(s) [RegionId] are being mapped in both fragments to
different conceptual side 
properties - data inconsistency is possible because the corresponding
conceptual side properties can 
be independently modified.

When regenerating ADO.NET Entity Model from scratch these new relationships
do appear properly as associations and my project compilation works OK...

Etc.

All in all I have got my DDEWA working OK but my current "rule of thumb" is
to not touch/edit generated ADO.NET Entity Model to not get into trouble.

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil
Salakhetdinov
Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 2:19 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Gustav,

I gave got one issue with DDEWA already - one of the tables "doesn't want"
to be opened/viewed - ASP.NET runtime error is reported. No clue yet how to
workaround this issue. Isn't that one of the causes Charlotte warned about
referring to her manager experience in another company?

The tables are ordered alphabetically and I wanted to get them ordered
special custom way.

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 1:26 AM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil

Yes, please post your findings please.

As for the order of the tables, isn't it just based on the enumeration in
SQL Server?

/gustav

>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 18:07 >>>
Hi Gustav --

Yes, I do know that you find ADO.NET Entity Data Model very promising.

And I only wanted to note that I find DDEWA also very promising to perform
quite some routine work we and our customers/"super-users" are doing
manually nowadays.

BTW, as far as I see/can guess DDEWA are implemented using very similar to
ASP.NET MVC Framework approach: I mean they seems to be using "some tricks"
on top of ASP.NET engine to generate on-the-fly ASP.NET controls and web
forms and "feed" ASP.NET engine using these generated web forms/controls. I
can be wrong. Just guessing...

I will continue my R&D with DDEWA and if I find something interesting I will
post this information here.

BTW, I'm currently trying to customize the order of the list of the tables
shown on the first page (Default.aspx) of my DDEWA, any ideas?

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 4:45 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil

My comments were not on the ADO.NET Entity Data Model which I find very
promising.

Your example of a "superuser" having access to the schema and full (test)
data is what I meant with a admin/techie app which I believe can be useful -
only have I never met a client which had much more than just a sense of what
the database is about.

I agree with you that dynamic data entities web tool seems to be very well
engineered.

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 13:18 >>>
Hi Gustav,

Yes, it takes "close to zero efforts" (~1 minute) to have a "web
application" for this ADO.NET entity model

http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/temp/model.jpg 

which in turn was generated from MS SQL 2005 database.

<<<
...this technique has its uses but app development is not one of these...
>>>
Gustav, let me disagree with that your statement.

First of all because (sample) and lookup data entry/edit is in fact part of
our everyday real life practice of application development.

Second, because Dynamic Data Entity Web Applications (DDEWA) do help
developers to verify their data modeling decisions by "effortlessly" giving
"working models" in hands of (power-)users, and when users/developers find
there are some mistakes in those decisions then DDEWA help to quickly fix
those mistakes (as you can see from referred here video you have to just
redeploy your corrected db and corresponding .edmx file and then refresh
your browser - and you'll get the new version "up & running". This practice
of verifying data modeling decisions in real life environment is also our
everyday practice but it usually takes much more efforts when done without
DDEWA. 

Third, because as I noted you can prepare within DDEWA ready to use in real
apps "code blocks" (.ascx controls etc.) while "playing with" DDEWA (again
as you can see no need to rebuild/restart the application - just refresh
your browser - well, that is a consequence of ASP.NET technology used for
DDEWA)

Fourth, as we talked here before, ADO.NET Entity Data Model will allow in
the (near) future to generate actual database models from ADO.NET Entity
models - wouldn't that become soon our everyday development practice?
(Imagine you start from use cases/user stories, develop customs classes and
business functionality based on ADO.NET Entity objects, develop unit tests,
then generate database model, develop integration tests, generate/customize
application interface... - and you're done. (of course I'm simplifying here
the real picture but IMO mainstream direction is presented correctly?))

Fifth, as we can see DDEWA user interface is generated from ADO.NET Entity
Model and this model (which is currently in the referred above case is
simply generated from database model) can be made having "Super-Entities"
modeling user interfaces' underplaying data, these "Super-Entities" can have
relations used by DDEWA to navigate between them... - IOW this is a way to
simulate real life apps user interfaces and navigation, and then "just add"
a mapping from "Super-Entities" to database entities...

...

DDEWA looks here very challenging and in the same time helpful to our
everyday development practices, not a "silver bullet" of course as we're
getting more and more complicated business tasks to automate but they
(DDEWA) promise to get out "yet another routine everyday work" from the
shoulders of developers...

Thank you.

--
Shamil 

P.S. The idea of DDEWA to generate user interface doesn't look original - we
have seen many "wizard tools" like that (I have even participated in
developing tools like that for different platforms, did you?) - but
implementation of this idea by MS folks and the ways to (re-)use this
implementation for real life apps development look very powerful, useful and
challenging from here. My five stars (*****) to MS DDEWA technology
developers.

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 2:27 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil and Charlotte

I watched that video - some challenge due to the awful soundtrack - and my
impression is that this dynamic data entities web is useful only for
creating an interface to the complete table schema - which you hardly never
use (I haven't) except for the example Shamil describes where you wish to
present the full schema as well as the data content and even offer to edit
this at close to zero efforts. I could imagine some kind of monitoring or
admin/techie interface built this way.

For any other purpose a lot of customizing is needed which - though quite
powerful, so it seems - for a decent app will take longer than building the
app from scratch I guess. 

So - as I see it - this technique has its uses but app development is not on
of these.

/gustav





From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Sun Aug 23 15:54:31 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 00:54:31 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications
In-Reply-To: <000601ca2419$ac4a8e30$04dfaa90$@spb.ru>
References: <sa8f2d25.082@cactus.dk> <001c01ca2311$e8cf5b00$ba6e1100$@spb.ru>
	<000601ca2419$ac4a8e30$04dfaa90$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <000701ca2433$eaff91b0$c0feb510$@spb.ru>

Hi All,

While trying to move my DDEWA to my ASP.NET hosting site I have again got
some weird error messages: fortunately I have found solution of
StackOverflow:

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/689355/metadataexception-unable-to-load-t
he-specified-metadata-resource

Connection string should start with:

connectionString="metadata=res://*/;

It worked well in my case.

FYI: it could take hours and hours to find the solution by yourself - here
is one example how much time it costed to another developer:

http://forums.asp.net/p/1409590/3082930.aspx

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil
Salakhetdinov
Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 9:47 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi All,

I have solved mentioned below issue by regenerating ADO.NET Entity Model:
unfortunately that seems to be the only solution now - I'm writing
unfortunately because regeneration forced me to get lost all my manual
edits. Not that a big issue as my edits were mainly "cosmetic" - if to not
count several hours, which I tried to find a workaround, which would allow
me to preserve my "cosmetic" changes...

I have also found that if I try to add new relationships to the source
database and then use DDEWA to get updated only those relationships info in
generated ADO.NET Entity Model then weird compiled errors appear, e.g.:

Error 3007: Problem in Mapping Fragments starting at lines 2291, 2985: Non-
Primary-Key column(s) [RegionId] are being mapped in both fragments to
different conceptual side 
properties - data inconsistency is possible because the corresponding
conceptual side properties can 
be independently modified.

When regenerating ADO.NET Entity Model from scratch these new relationships
do appear properly as associations and my project compilation works OK...

Etc.

All in all I have got my DDEWA working OK but my current "rule of thumb" is
to not touch/edit generated ADO.NET Entity Model to not get into trouble.

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil
Salakhetdinov
Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 2:19 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Gustav,

I gave got one issue with DDEWA already - one of the tables "doesn't want"
to be opened/viewed - ASP.NET runtime error is reported. No clue yet how to
workaround this issue. Isn't that one of the causes Charlotte warned about
referring to her manager experience in another company?

The tables are ordered alphabetically and I wanted to get them ordered
special custom way.

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 1:26 AM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil

Yes, please post your findings please.

As for the order of the tables, isn't it just based on the enumeration in
SQL Server?

/gustav

>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 18:07 >>>
Hi Gustav --

Yes, I do know that you find ADO.NET Entity Data Model very promising.

And I only wanted to note that I find DDEWA also very promising to perform
quite some routine work we and our customers/"super-users" are doing
manually nowadays.

BTW, as far as I see/can guess DDEWA are implemented using very similar to
ASP.NET MVC Framework approach: I mean they seems to be using "some tricks"
on top of ASP.NET engine to generate on-the-fly ASP.NET controls and web
forms and "feed" ASP.NET engine using these generated web forms/controls. I
can be wrong. Just guessing...

I will continue my R&D with DDEWA and if I find something interesting I will
post this information here.

BTW, I'm currently trying to customize the order of the list of the tables
shown on the first page (Default.aspx) of my DDEWA, any ideas?

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 4:45 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil

My comments were not on the ADO.NET Entity Data Model which I find very
promising.

Your example of a "superuser" having access to the schema and full (test)
data is what I meant with a admin/techie app which I believe can be useful -
only have I never met a client which had much more than just a sense of what
the database is about.

I agree with you that dynamic data entities web tool seems to be very well
engineered.

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 13:18 >>>
Hi Gustav,

Yes, it takes "close to zero efforts" (~1 minute) to have a "web
application" for this ADO.NET entity model

http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/temp/model.jpg 

which in turn was generated from MS SQL 2005 database.

<<<
...this technique has its uses but app development is not one of these...
>>>
Gustav, let me disagree with that your statement.

First of all because (sample) and lookup data entry/edit is in fact part of
our everyday real life practice of application development.

Second, because Dynamic Data Entity Web Applications (DDEWA) do help
developers to verify their data modeling decisions by "effortlessly" giving
"working models" in hands of (power-)users, and when users/developers find
there are some mistakes in those decisions then DDEWA help to quickly fix
those mistakes (as you can see from referred here video you have to just
redeploy your corrected db and corresponding .edmx file and then refresh
your browser - and you'll get the new version "up & running". This practice
of verifying data modeling decisions in real life environment is also our
everyday practice but it usually takes much more efforts when done without
DDEWA. 

Third, because as I noted you can prepare within DDEWA ready to use in real
apps "code blocks" (.ascx controls etc.) while "playing with" DDEWA (again
as you can see no need to rebuild/restart the application - just refresh
your browser - well, that is a consequence of ASP.NET technology used for
DDEWA)

Fourth, as we talked here before, ADO.NET Entity Data Model will allow in
the (near) future to generate actual database models from ADO.NET Entity
models - wouldn't that become soon our everyday development practice?
(Imagine you start from use cases/user stories, develop customs classes and
business functionality based on ADO.NET Entity objects, develop unit tests,
then generate database model, develop integration tests, generate/customize
application interface... - and you're done. (of course I'm simplifying here
the real picture but IMO mainstream direction is presented correctly?))

Fifth, as we can see DDEWA user interface is generated from ADO.NET Entity
Model and this model (which is currently in the referred above case is
simply generated from database model) can be made having "Super-Entities"
modeling user interfaces' underplaying data, these "Super-Entities" can have
relations used by DDEWA to navigate between them... - IOW this is a way to
simulate real life apps user interfaces and navigation, and then "just add"
a mapping from "Super-Entities" to database entities...

...

DDEWA looks here very challenging and in the same time helpful to our
everyday development practices, not a "silver bullet" of course as we're
getting more and more complicated business tasks to automate but they
(DDEWA) promise to get out "yet another routine everyday work" from the
shoulders of developers...

Thank you.

--
Shamil 

P.S. The idea of DDEWA to generate user interface doesn't look original - we
have seen many "wizard tools" like that (I have even participated in
developing tools like that for different platforms, did you?) - but
implementation of this idea by MS folks and the ways to (re-)use this
implementation for real life apps development look very powerful, useful and
challenging from here. My five stars (*****) to MS DDEWA technology
developers.

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 2:27 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil and Charlotte

I watched that video - some challenge due to the awful soundtrack - and my
impression is that this dynamic data entities web is useful only for
creating an interface to the complete table schema - which you hardly never
use (I haven't) except for the example Shamil describes where you wish to
present the full schema as well as the data content and even offer to edit
this at close to zero efforts. I could imagine some kind of monitoring or
admin/techie interface built this way.

For any other purpose a lot of customizing is needed which - though quite
powerful, so it seems - for a decent app will take longer than building the
app from scratch I guess. 

So - as I see it - this technique has its uses but app development is not on
of these.

/gustav







From Gustav at cactus.dk  Sun Aug 23 16:21:09 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 23:21:09 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications
Message-ID: <sa91cef8.098@cactus.dk>

Hi Shamil

Thanks for the tip. Not an easy one to figure out!

/gustav

>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 23-08-2009 22:54 >>>
Hi All,

While trying to move my DDEWA to my ASP.NET hosting site I have again got
some weird error messages: fortunately I have found solution of StackOverflow:

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/689355/metadataexception-unable-to-load-the-specified-metadata-resource

Connection string should start with:

connectionString="metadata=res://*/;

It worked well in my case.

FYI: it could take hours and hours to find the solution by yourself - here is one example how much time it costed to another developer:

http://forums.asp.net/p/1409590/3082930.aspx 

Thank you.

--
Shamil




From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Mon Aug 24 08:27:26 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:27:26 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] FTP and email in .Net
Message-ID: <4A92953E.1000304@colbyconsulting.com>

I am looking (Google) for how to ftp and email in .Net and am not finding anything.  Is this "built 
in" or otherwise readily available?

-- 
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


From Gustav at cactus.dk  Mon Aug 24 08:40:50 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 15:40:50 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] FTP and email in .Net
Message-ID: <sa92b491.016@cactus.dk>

Hi John

I've not used FTP only mail which mostly is SMTP. Look for the System.Net.Mail library and the SmtpClient.

It works very well. We have a client with an app using this on a daily basis for more than a year using their own SMTP Service running on an in-house server, and haven't seen a single issue.

If you need code, I can probably pull some out (C#).

/gustav

PS: A bit strange you can't google for this. That's how I found out how to do.

>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 24-08-2009 15:27 >>>
I am looking (Google) for how to ftp and email in .Net and am not finding anything.  Is this "built 
in" or otherwise readily available?

-- 
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com 





From R.Griffiths at bury.gov.uk  Mon Aug 24 08:44:22 2009
From: R.Griffiths at bury.gov.uk (Griffiths, Richard)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 14:44:22 +0100
Subject: [dba-VB] FTP and email in .Net
In-Reply-To: <4A92953E.1000304@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <4A92953E.1000304@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <200908241322.n7ODMPs27534@smarthost.yourcomms.net>

Hi

Have a look at

Dim ftp As Utilities.FTP.FTPclient

Richard
-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: 24 August 2009 14:27
To: VBA
Subject: [dba-VB] FTP and email in .Net

I am looking (Google) for how to ftp and email in .Net and am not
finding anything.  Is this "built 
in" or otherwise readily available?

-- 
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com
_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com

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From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Mon Aug 24 08:50:57 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:50:57 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] FTP and email in .Net
In-Reply-To: <200908241322.n7ODMPs27534@smarthost.yourcomms.net>
References: <4A92953E.1000304@colbyconsulting.com>
	<200908241322.n7ODMPs27534@smarthost.yourcomms.net>
Message-ID: <4A929AC1.3010602@colbyconsulting.com>

Thanks Richard.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Griffiths, Richard wrote:
> Hi
> 
> Have a look at
> 
> Dim ftp As Utilities.FTP.FTPclient
> 
> Richard
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
> Sent: 24 August 2009 14:27
> To: VBA
> Subject: [dba-VB] FTP and email in .Net
> 
> I am looking (Google) for how to ftp and email in .Net and am not
> finding anything.  Is this "built 
> in" or otherwise readily available?
> 


From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Mon Aug 24 08:51:14 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:51:14 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] FTP and email in .Net
In-Reply-To: <sa92b491.016@cactus.dk>
References: <sa92b491.016@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <4A929AD2.1040201@colbyconsulting.com>

Thanks Gustav.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi John
> 
> I've not used FTP only mail which mostly is SMTP. Look for the System.Net.Mail library and the SmtpClient.
> 
> It works very well. We have a client with an app using this on a daily basis for more than a year using their own SMTP Service running on an in-house server, and haven't seen a single issue.
> 
> If you need code, I can probably pull some out (C#).
> 
> /gustav
> 
> PS: A bit strange you can't google for this. That's how I found out how to do.
> 
>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 24-08-2009 15:27 >>>
> I am looking (Google) for how to ftp and email in .Net and am not finding anything.  Is this "built 
> in" or otherwise readily available?
> 


From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Mon Aug 24 09:33:35 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 18:33:35 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] FTP and email in .Net
In-Reply-To: <4A92953E.1000304@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <4A92953E.1000304@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <002601ca24c7$e17714d0$a4653e70$@spb.ru>

Hi John,

FTT and SMPT e-maling are built-in.
FTP can be done many ways - I used System.Net.HttpWebRequest.
For SMTP e-mailing I used System.Net.Mail and related.

If you will not find ready to use samples on Internet we can "cook" some
samples for you here.

Thank you.

--
Shamil


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 5:27 PM
To: VBA
Subject: [dba-VB] FTP and email in .Net

I am looking (Google) for how to ftp and email in .Net and am not finding
anything.  Is this "built 
in" or otherwise readily available?

-- 
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com
_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4363 (20090824) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 



From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Mon Aug 24 12:38:52 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 21:38:52 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...
Message-ID: <003301ca24e1$c0a99060$41fcb120$@spb.ru>

Hi All,

 

I have found (I?m joking) that Russian is the most laconic language in expressing emotions and emotional states ? I mean Russian usually (always?) needs the least amount of letters to express emotions in written text/verbally ? here is one example - I have got translations from http://translate.google.com ? I can?t guarantee they are all correct. Also I?m not sure that non-Ascii letters will go well through wires ? the main purpose of this message is to test that - could be useful to know how it will work if some code samples here will have national alphabets used):

 

Russian: ????

 

English: I'm joking

Arabic:  ??? ????

Bulgarian: ?? ??? ??????

Hungarian: I'm vicc

Dutch: Ik ben een grapje

Greek: ??? ???????????

Hebrew: ??? ????

Indonesian: Aku bercanda

Spanish: Estoy bromeando

Italian: Sto scherzando

Chinese(Traditional): ?????

German: Ich scherze

Polish: Ja ?artuj?

Portugal: Estou brincando

Romanian: Eu glumesc

Serbs: ????? ??

Slovak: Ja si ?arty

Slovenes: ?alim

??????????: Ako biro

Turkish:  Ben ?aka yap?yorum ya??yorum

Ukrainian: ??????

French: Je plaisante

Hindi: ??? ???? ?? ??? ???

Croatian: ?alim se

Czech: J? si legraci

Swedish: Jag sk?mtar

Estonian: Ma nalja

Japan: ??????????

?

 

As you can see(?) in Russian you need just one word and 4 chars to write/say ?I?m joking?.

 

Thank you.

 

--

Shamil

 

P.S. Gustav, I didn?t find translation to Danish on translate.google.com ? what it is?



From max.wanadoo at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 13:02:58 2009
From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 19:02:58 +0100
Subject: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...
In-Reply-To: <003301ca24e1$c0a99060$41fcb120$@spb.ru>
References: <003301ca24e1$c0a99060$41fcb120$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <4a92d5e6.0a1ad00a.0893.0512@mx.google.com>

So?

Max
1 word, 2 letters ha!  You can't beat the British.  Ask anybody, ask the ozzies for instance...


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov
Sent: 24 August 2009 18:39
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...

Hi All,

 

I have found (I?m joking) that Russian is the most laconic language in expressing emotions and emotional states ? I mean Russian usually (always?) needs the least amount of letters to express emotions in written text/verbally ? here is one example - I have got translations from http://translate.google.com ? I can?t guarantee they are all correct. Also I?m not sure that non-Ascii letters will go well through wires ? the main purpose of this message is to test that - could be useful to know how it will work if some code samples here will have national alphabets used):

 

Russian: ????

 

English: I'm joking

Arabic:  ??? ????

Bulgarian: ?? ??? ??????

Hungarian: I'm vicc

Dutch: Ik ben een grapje

Greek: ??? ???????????

Hebrew: ??? ????

Indonesian: Aku bercanda

Spanish: Estoy bromeando

Italian: Sto scherzando

Chinese(Traditional): ?????

German: Ich scherze

Polish: Ja ?artuj?

Portugal: Estou brincando

Romanian: Eu glumesc

Serbs: ????? ??

Slovak: Ja si ?arty

Slovenes: ?alim

??????????: Ako biro

Turkish:  Ben ?aka yap?yorum ya??yorum

Ukrainian: ??????

French: Je plaisante

Hindi: ??? ???? ?? ??? ???

Croatian: ?alim se

Czech: J? si legraci

Swedish: Jag sk?mtar

Estonian: Ma nalja

Japan: ??????????

?

 

As you can see(?) in Russian you need just one word and 4 chars to write/say ?I?m joking?.

 

Thank you.

 

--

Shamil

 

P.S. Gustav, I didn?t find translation to Danish on translate.google.com ? what it is?

_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com





From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Mon Aug 24 13:15:38 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 14:15:38 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] One Click publish
Message-ID: <4A92D8CA.8060909@colbyconsulting.com>

Does the One Click thing publish the database as well for a database app?  If not, is there such a 
thing for publishing the database?

-- 
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Mon Aug 24 13:19:25 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 22:19:25 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...
In-Reply-To: <4a92d5e6.0a1ad00a.0893.0512@mx.google.com>
References: <003301ca24e1$c0a99060$41fcb120$@spb.ru>
	<4a92d5e6.0a1ad00a.0893.0512@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <003801ca24e7$6acb15a0$406140e0$@spb.ru>

?? ;) (pronounced as semi-long 'e' in 'Beatles')

One letter, one word - can you beat Russian? (I didn't yet mention here but there is a special Russian slang broadly used "in masses" here when you can use three, max four words to express everything. I must say this slang is "prohibited" to use when kids and women are around, so I'd not use it here - you can Google YouTube to hear some - Madonna before her visit here this August used one of this words in her advertisement of her coming concert on Palace Square here in St.Petersburg, in front of Hermitage (Hermitage officials and Russian Orthodox Church officials asked Madonna to not use uncensored (Russian) slang during that concert - and she didn't but as usual she behaved rather extravagant during this concert as I have seen in one of the clips (I wasn't there on Palace Square that day))...)

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:03 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...

So?

Max
1 word, 2 letters ha!  You can't beat the British.  Ask anybody, ask the ozzies for instance...


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov
Sent: 24 August 2009 18:39
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...

Hi All,

 

I have found (I?m joking) that Russian is the most laconic language in expressing emotions and emotional states ? I mean Russian usually (always?) needs the least amount of letters to express emotions in written text/verbally ? here is one example - I have got translations from http://translate.google.com ? I can?t guarantee they are all correct. Also I?m not sure that non-Ascii letters will go well through wires ? the main purpose of this message is to test that - could be useful to know how it will work if some code samples here will have national alphabets used):

 

Russian: ????

 

English: I'm joking

Arabic:  ??? ????

Bulgarian: ?? ??? ??????

Hungarian: I'm vicc

Dutch: Ik ben een grapje

Greek: ??? ???????????

Hebrew: ??? ????

Indonesian: Aku bercanda

Spanish: Estoy bromeando

Italian: Sto scherzando

Chinese(Traditional): ?????

German: Ich scherze

Polish: Ja ?artuj?

Portugal: Estou brincando

Romanian: Eu glumesc

Serbs: ????? ??

Slovak: Ja si ?arty

Slovenes: ?alim

??????????: Ako biro

Turkish:  Ben ?aka yap?yorum ya??yorum

Ukrainian: ??????

French: Je plaisante

Hindi: ??? ???? ?? ??? ???

Croatian: ?alim se

Czech: J? si legraci

Swedish: Jag sk?mtar

Estonian: Ma nalja

Japan: ??????????

?

 

As you can see(?) in Russian you need just one word and 4 chars to write/say ?I?m joking?.

 

Thank you.

 

--

Shamil

 

P.S. Gustav, I didn?t find translation to Danish on translate.google.com ? what it is?

_______________________________________________

 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4364 (20090824) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 




From Gustav at cactus.dk  Mon Aug 24 13:32:38 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 20:32:38 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...
Message-ID: <sa92f90a.022@cactus.dk>

Hi Shamil

(like Swedish ...)

Danish: Jeg sk?mter
or: Jeg joker

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 24-08-2009 19:38 >>>
Hi All,

 

I have found (I?m joking) that Russian is the most laconic language in expressing emotions and emotional states ? I mean Russian usually (always?) needs the least amount of letters to express emotions in written text/verbally ? here is one example - I have got translations from http://translate.google.com ? I can?t guarantee they are all correct. Also I?m not sure that non-Ascii letters will go well through wires ? the main purpose of this message is to test that - could be useful to know how it will work if some code samples here will have national alphabets used):

 

Russian: ????

 

English: I'm joking

Arabic:  ??? ????

Bulgarian: ?? ??? ??????

Hungarian: I'm vicc

Dutch: Ik ben een grapje

Greek: *?? ???????????

Hebrew: ??? ????

Indonesian: Aku bercanda

Spanish: Estoy bromeando

Italian: Sto scherzando

Chinese(Traditional): *****

German: Ich scherze

Polish: Ja ?artuj?

Portugal: Estou brincando

Romanian: Eu glumesc

Serbs: ????? ??

Slovak: Ja si ?arty

Slovenes: ?alim

??????????: Ako biro

Turkish:  Ben ?aka yap?yorum ya??yorum

Ukrainian: ??????

French: Je plaisante

Hindi: *** **** ** *** ***

Croatian: ?alim se

Czech: J? si legraci

Swedish: Jag sk?mtar

Estonian: Ma nalja

Japan: *?**?*????

?

 

As you can see(?) in Russian you need just one word and 4 chars to write/say ?I?m joking?.

 

Thank you.

 

--

Shamil

 

P.S. Gustav, I didn?t find translation to Danish on translate.google.com ? what it is?





From Gustav at cactus.dk  Mon Aug 24 13:37:01 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 20:37:01 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] One Click publish
Message-ID: <sa92f9fa.023@cactus.dk>

Hi John

Yes, at least for SQL Server. Some explanation here:

http://www.databasejournal.com/features/mssql/article.php/3714536/SQL-Server-2005-Express-Edition---Part-12---ClickOnce-Deployment-and-Updates.htm 

/gustav

>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 24-08-2009 20:15 >>>
Does the One Click thing publish the database as well for a database app?  If not, is there such a 
thing for publishing the database?

-- 
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com 





From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Mon Aug 24 14:06:32 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 23:06:32 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] One Click publish
In-Reply-To: <sa92f9fa.023@cactus.dk>
References: <sa92f9fa.023@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <003901ca24ed$ff506b70$fdf14250$@spb.ru>

Hi John and Gustav,

I must say, I have spent some time trying to figure out how to setup some
data(base) locally with Click-Once setup - and I just gave up because that
wasn't a work paid by a customer urging that setup and having a money to pay
for it: I mean this is a very advanced subject IMO - "Click-Once setup with
local data(base). For myself I decided to use Click-Once setup only talking
to (external) web-services or to local preinstalled MS SQL database, which
connection string is known for Click-Once app (although I didn't test how it
works) - Click-Once apps are usually having very limited access rights to
the host system they run on - IOW they run in "sandbox" - one can try to
bypass these limitations by using Code Access Security (CAS) manipulation on
runtime but again that's is an advanced subject...

...IOW Click-Once setup of apps with unlimited permissions is as dangerous
as ActiveXes setup - not recommended(?)...

"There is no free cheese in this world"

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:37 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] One Click publish

Hi John

Yes, at least for SQL Server. Some explanation here:

http://www.databasejournal.com/features/mssql/article.php/3714536/SQL-Server
-2005-Express-Edition---Part-12---ClickOnce-Deployment-and-Updates.htm 

/gustav

>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 24-08-2009 20:15 >>>
Does the One Click thing publish the database as well for a database app?
If not, is there such a 
thing for publishing the database?

-- 
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com 



 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4364 (20090824) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 



From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Mon Aug 24 14:11:24 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 23:11:24 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...
In-Reply-To: <sa92f90a.022@cactus.dk>
References: <sa92f90a.022@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <003a01ca24ee$adf63290$09e297b0$@spb.ru>

Thank you, Gustav.

--
Shamil

P.S. As far as I see most of the national alphabets letters went well through wire - something like 80% of them - let's assume that the test worked OK. Thank you.

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:33 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...

Hi Shamil

(like Swedish ...)

Danish: Jeg sk?mter
or: Jeg joker

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 24-08-2009 19:38 >>>
Hi All,

 

I have found (I?m joking) that Russian is the most laconic language in expressing emotions and emotional states ? I mean Russian usually (always?) needs the least amount of letters to express emotions in written text/verbally ? here is one example - I have got translations from http://translate.google.com ? I can?t guarantee they are all correct. Also I?m not sure that non-Ascii letters will go well through wires ? the main purpose of this message is to test that - could be useful to know how it will work if some code samples here will have national alphabets used):

 

Russian: ????

 

English: I'm joking

Arabic:  ??? ????

Bulgarian: ?? ??? ??????

Hungarian: I'm vicc

Dutch: Ik ben een grapje

Greek: *?? ???????????

Hebrew: ??? ????

Indonesian: Aku bercanda

Spanish: Estoy bromeando

Italian: Sto scherzando

Chinese(Traditional): *****

German: Ich scherze

Polish: Ja ?artuj?

Portugal: Estou brincando

Romanian: Eu glumesc

Serbs: ????? ??

Slovak: Ja si ?arty

Slovenes: ?alim

??????????: Ako biro

Turkish:  Ben ?aka yap?yorum ya??yorum

Ukrainian: ??????

French: Je plaisante

Hindi: *** **** ** *** ***

Croatian: ?alim se

Czech: J? si legraci

Swedish: Jag sk?mtar

Estonian: Ma nalja

Japan: *?**?*????

?

 

As you can see(?) in Russian you need just one word and 4 chars to write/say ?I?m joking?.

 

Thank you.

 

--

Shamil

 

P.S. Gustav, I didn?t find translation to Danish on translate.google.com ? what it is?



_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com

 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4364 (20090824) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 




From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Mon Aug 24 14:15:53 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 15:15:53 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] One Click publish
In-Reply-To: <003901ca24ed$ff506b70$fdf14250$@spb.ru>
References: <sa92f9fa.023@cactus.dk> <003901ca24ed$ff506b70$fdf14250$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <4A92E6E9.5040409@colbyconsulting.com>

Hmm....

I am looking at building an application in .Net.  This application will be used by my users but will 
also possibly be sold to companies.  Thus the application install has to somehow do an initial setup 
of a database.  As changes are made, any database changes have to be pushed along with the 
application changes.

The application will "start small and expand" so I am expecting the application and it's database to 
grow over the years.

Perhaps Click-Once is not the method for this kind of situation?

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote:
> Hi John and Gustav,
> 
> I must say, I have spent some time trying to figure out how to setup some
> data(base) locally with Click-Once setup - and I just gave up because that
> wasn't a work paid by a customer urging that setup and having a money to pay
> for it: I mean this is a very advanced subject IMO - "Click-Once setup with
> local data(base). For myself I decided to use Click-Once setup only talking
> to (external) web-services or to local preinstalled MS SQL database, which
> connection string is known for Click-Once app (although I didn't test how it
> works) - Click-Once apps are usually having very limited access rights to
> the host system they run on - IOW they run in "sandbox" - one can try to
> bypass these limitations by using Code Access Security (CAS) manipulation on
> runtime but again that's is an advanced subject...
> 
> ...IOW Click-Once setup of apps with unlimited permissions is as dangerous
> as ActiveXes setup - not recommended(?)...
> 
> "There is no free cheese in this world"
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> --
> Shamil
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
> Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:37 PM
> To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] One Click publish
> 
> Hi John
> 
> Yes, at least for SQL Server. Some explanation here:
> 
> http://www.databasejournal.com/features/mssql/article.php/3714536/SQL-Server
> -2005-Express-Edition---Part-12---ClickOnce-Deployment-and-Updates.htm 
> 
> /gustav
> 
>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 24-08-2009 20:15 >>>
> Does the One Click thing publish the database as well for a database app?
> If not, is there such a 
> thing for publishing the database?
> 


From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Mon Aug 24 15:04:08 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 00:04:08 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] One Click publish
In-Reply-To: <4A92E6E9.5040409@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <sa92f9fa.023@cactus.dk> <003901ca24ed$ff506b70$fdf14250$@spb.ru>
	<4A92E6E9.5040409@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <003b01ca24f6$0b91cde0$22b569a0$@spb.ru>

Yes, then you probably better use ordinary setup procedures: there are
special setup projects in VS, not sure they exist in C#/VB Express - please
check. But I anyway do not use these VS setup projects - I accustomed to use
INNO-Setup (free) setup scripts, which I have created once a long ago to
setup my/my customer MS Access apps, and I now use with some edits to setup
.NET apps - works pretty well for many customers and projects...

Thank you.

--
Shamil 

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 11:16 PM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] One Click publish

Hmm....

I am looking at building an application in .Net.  This application will be
used by my users but will 
also possibly be sold to companies.  Thus the application install has to
somehow do an initial setup 
of a database.  As changes are made, any database changes have to be pushed
along with the 
application changes.

The application will "start small and expand" so I am expecting the
application and it's database to 
grow over the years.

Perhaps Click-Once is not the method for this kind of situation?

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote:
> Hi John and Gustav,
> 
> I must say, I have spent some time trying to figure out how to setup some
> data(base) locally with Click-Once setup - and I just gave up because that
> wasn't a work paid by a customer urging that setup and having a money to
pay
> for it: I mean this is a very advanced subject IMO - "Click-Once setup
with
> local data(base). For myself I decided to use Click-Once setup only
talking
> to (external) web-services or to local preinstalled MS SQL database, which
> connection string is known for Click-Once app (although I didn't test how
it
> works) - Click-Once apps are usually having very limited access rights to
> the host system they run on - IOW they run in "sandbox" - one can try to
> bypass these limitations by using Code Access Security (CAS) manipulation
on
> runtime but again that's is an advanced subject...
> 
> ...IOW Click-Once setup of apps with unlimited permissions is as dangerous
> as ActiveXes setup - not recommended(?)...
> 
> "There is no free cheese in this world"
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> --
> Shamil
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
> Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:37 PM
> To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] One Click publish
> 
> Hi John
> 
> Yes, at least for SQL Server. Some explanation here:
> 
>
http://www.databasejournal.com/features/mssql/article.php/3714536/SQL-Server
> -2005-Express-Edition---Part-12---ClickOnce-Deployment-and-Updates.htm 
> 
> /gustav
> 
>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 24-08-2009 20:15 >>>
> Does the One Click thing publish the database as well for a database app?
> If not, is there such a 
> thing for publishing the database?
> 
_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4364 (20090824) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru


 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4364 (20090824) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 



From Gustav at cactus.dk  Mon Aug 24 16:18:18 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 23:18:18 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] One Click publish
Message-ID: <sa931fd9.024@cactus.dk>

Hi John and Shamil

It is not that complicated ... once you find out how. That took me quite some time because I had to both distribute the app (that's easy) and install a font (not so easy) at each workstation. Most of the bumps are due to security precautions.

I have previously posted about how to do this and the tool needed:

http://databaseadvisors.com/pipermail/dba-vb/2008-October/002037.html 

In your case you would prepare an SQL Server quiet install package and arrange that as a prerequisite for your app.

/gustav

>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 24-08-2009 21:06 >>>
Hi John and Gustav,

I must say, I have spent some time trying to figure out how to setup some
data(base) locally with Click-Once setup - and I just gave up because that
wasn't a work paid by a customer urging that setup and having a money to pay
for it: I mean this is a very advanced subject IMO - "Click-Once setup with
local data(base). For myself I decided to use Click-Once setup only talking
to (external) web-services or to local preinstalled MS SQL database, which
connection string is known for Click-Once app (although I didn't test how it
works) - Click-Once apps are usually having very limited access rights to
the host system they run on - IOW they run in "sandbox" - one can try to
bypass these limitations by using Code Access Security (CAS) manipulation on
runtime but again that's is an advanced subject...

...IOW Click-Once setup of apps with unlimited permissions is as dangerous
as ActiveXes setup - not recommended(?)...

"There is no free cheese in this world"

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:37 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] One Click publish

Hi John

Yes, at least for SQL Server. Some explanation here:

http://www.databasejournal.com/features/mssql/article.php/3714536/SQL-Server 
-2005-Express-Edition---Part-12---ClickOnce-Deployment-and-Updates.htm 

/gustav

>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 24-08-2009 20:15 >>>
Does the One Click thing publish the database as well for a database app?
If not, is there such a 
thing for publishing the database?

-- 
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com 





From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Mon Aug 24 16:18:48 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 17:18:48 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev
Message-ID: <4A9303B8.20507@colbyconsulting.com>

I am going to do a virtual machine to do my development on.  This allows me to move it around on an 
external disk between host machines.

My question is what OS would you suggest for the VM for development in .Net?  My available choices 
are XP, 2003 and Vista (and maybe Server 2008).

Also how much disk space for the virtual hard disk?

Even though I have been using Vista on my main development laptop for a couple of years, I still 
hate it, so that would not be my first choice.

Windows 2003 is a very stable environment but it is also a server OS and I have run into a lot of 
applications, PerfectDisk for example, which refuse to run on a server OS OR want you to pay 
hundreds of dollars for something that costs $50 for XP.

Which leaves me with XP which is getting long in the tooth.

Any yes, I have a copy of Server 2008 which I assume would have the same "is a server OS" issues 
that 2003 brings with it.

Any thoughts on this?

BTW I think I am going to bring up a server machine (real hardware) to run the Server 2008 license I 
have.

-- 
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


From Gustav at cactus.dk  Mon Aug 24 16:32:39 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 23:32:39 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev
Message-ID: <sa932340.025@cactus.dk>

Hi John

Vista if you ask me. Or, of course, Windows 7 when you can get hold on it.
Hanging on with Win XP is too lame.

But my primary development machine I wouldn't run in a VM.

/gustav

>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 24-08-2009 23:18 >>>
I am going to do a virtual machine to do my development on.  This allows me to move it around on an 
external disk between host machines.

My question is what OS would you suggest for the VM for development in .Net?  My available choices 
are XP, 2003 and Vista (and maybe Server 2008).

Also how much disk space for the virtual hard disk?

Even though I have been using Vista on my main development laptop for a couple of years, I still 
hate it, so that would not be my first choice.

Windows 2003 is a very stable environment but it is also a server OS and I have run into a lot of 
applications, PerfectDisk for example, which refuse to run on a server OS OR want you to pay 
hundreds of dollars for something that costs $50 for XP.

Which leaves me with XP which is getting long in the tooth.

Any yes, I have a copy of Server 2008 which I assume would have the same "is a server OS" issues 
that 2003 brings with it.

Any thoughts on this?

BTW I think I am going to bring up a server machine (real hardware) to run the Server 2008 license I 
have.

-- 
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com 





From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Mon Aug 24 16:36:26 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 01:36:26 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev
In-Reply-To: <4A9303B8.20507@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <4A9303B8.20507@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <004501ca2502$f5369dc0$dfa3d940$@spb.ru>

Hi John,

Win XP SP2 should be OK for up to .NET Framework 3.5 SP1, I'm not sure about
.NET Framework 4.0 - but I'd hope it should be OK too.

I do use Vista Ultimate as my main development PC, I do have WinXP SP2 to
test my setups, as well as I used MS Windows 2003 Server in the past and it
worked well while using it to develop .NET apps.

Windows 2008 should be probably the best choice, but it's not necessary I
suppose: as far as I understand new .NET versions just add new .NET
Framework classes and technologies, which run on top of "good old Win32API",
which didn't change that much since WinXP, and if something new comes in
windows system then that new parts should be installed OK from WinXP SP2 and
up...

I have seen customers are now starting to request .NET apps running on 64
bit machines as well as utilizing optimally multi-core systems - I do not
have that experience yet... 

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 1:19 AM
To: VBA
Subject: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev

I am going to do a virtual machine to do my development on.  This allows me
to move it around on an 
external disk between host machines.

My question is what OS would you suggest for the VM for development in .Net?
My available choices 
are XP, 2003 and Vista (and maybe Server 2008).

Also how much disk space for the virtual hard disk?

Even though I have been using Vista on my main development laptop for a
couple of years, I still 
hate it, so that would not be my first choice.

Windows 2003 is a very stable environment but it is also a server OS and I
have run into a lot of 
applications, PerfectDisk for example, which refuse to run on a server OS OR
want you to pay 
hundreds of dollars for something that costs $50 for XP.

Which leaves me with XP which is getting long in the tooth.

Any yes, I have a copy of Server 2008 which I assume would have the same "is
a server OS" issues 
that 2003 brings with it.

Any thoughts on this?

BTW I think I am going to bring up a server machine (real hardware) to run
the Server 2008 license I 
have.

-- 
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com
_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4364 (20090824) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru


 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4364 (20090824) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 



From dbdoug at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 16:46:19 2009
From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 14:46:19 -0700
Subject: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev
In-Reply-To: <4A9303B8.20507@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <4A9303B8.20507@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <4dd71a0c0908241446k303b83e6odcdf9f3cd9eeec46@mail.gmail.com>

Hi John:

My development environment is a  15GB VMWare virtual machine.  I installed
Win XP, VS2008 (C# only, I think, but all the help files), SQL Server
Express 2005, and Office 2003.  I have less than 1GB free.

Doug

On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 2:18 PM, jwcolby <jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com>wrote:

> I am going to do a virtual machine to do my development on.  This allows me
> to move it around on an
> external disk between host machines.
>
> My question is what OS would you suggest for the VM for development in
> .Net?  My available choices
> are XP, 2003 and Vista (and maybe Server 2008).
>
> Also how much disk space for the virtual hard disk?
>
>


From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Mon Aug 24 17:02:58 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 18:02:58 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev
In-Reply-To: <sa932340.025@cactus.dk>
References: <sa932340.025@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <4A930E12.6010106@colbyconsulting.com>

Gustav,

 > But my primary development machine I wouldn't run in a VM.

Why is that?  I have used VMs for this for awhile now, and I think it works well.

I have VMS Server on both of my Server 2003 machines and they have very fast processors and lots of 
memory so it makes the VM run fast and I can assign lots of memory to the VM if I need.

OTOH I have VMWare player on my Vista laptop.  While it is a fairly fast laptop it only has 4 gigs 
of RAM.

By running the VM off of a USB drive I can move it around pretty much at will.  I kind of like that.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi John
> 
> Vista if you ask me. Or, of course, Windows 7 when you can get hold on it.
> Hanging on with Win XP is too lame.
> 
> But my primary development machine I wouldn't run in a VM.
> 
> /gustav
> 
>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 24-08-2009 23:18 >>>
> I am going to do a virtual machine to do my development on.  This allows me to move it around on an 
> external disk between host machines.
> 
> My question is what OS would you suggest for the VM for development in .Net?  My available choices 
> are XP, 2003 and Vista (and maybe Server 2008).
> 
> Also how much disk space for the virtual hard disk?
> 
> Even though I have been using Vista on my main development laptop for a couple of years, I still 
> hate it, so that would not be my first choice.
> 
> Windows 2003 is a very stable environment but it is also a server OS and I have run into a lot of 
> applications, PerfectDisk for example, which refuse to run on a server OS OR want you to pay 
> hundreds of dollars for something that costs $50 for XP.
> 
> Which leaves me with XP which is getting long in the tooth.
> 
> Any yes, I have a copy of Server 2008 which I assume would have the same "is a server OS" issues 
> that 2003 brings with it.
> 
> Any thoughts on this?
> 
> BTW I think I am going to bring up a server machine (real hardware) to run the Server 2008 license I 
> have.
> 


From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Mon Aug 24 17:05:04 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 18:05:04 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev
In-Reply-To: <4dd71a0c0908241446k303b83e6odcdf9f3cd9eeec46@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4A9303B8.20507@colbyconsulting.com>
	<4dd71a0c0908241446k303b83e6odcdf9f3cd9eeec46@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A930E90.3010501@colbyconsulting.com>

ROTFL.

I have an XP VM with 30 gigs and it has about 15 gigs free.  I was worried about that small amount. 
  1 gig free would make me nervous.

I have a 7200 RPM laptop drive with 100 gigs in an external case, USB 2.0 interface.  I thought I 
would put whatever I use on that.  I like to work on my laptop and haul stuff around, and I want the 
VM to be portable between host machines.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Doug Steele wrote:
> Hi John:
> 
> My development environment is a  15GB VMWare virtual machine.  I installed
> Win XP, VS2008 (C# only, I think, but all the help files), SQL Server
> Express 2005, and Office 2003.  I have less than 1GB free.
> 
> Doug
> 
> On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 2:18 PM, jwcolby <jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com>wrote:
> 
>> I am going to do a virtual machine to do my development on.  This allows me
>> to move it around on an
>> external disk between host machines.
>>
>> My question is what OS would you suggest for the VM for development in
>> .Net?  My available choices
>> are XP, 2003 and Vista (and maybe Server 2008).
>>
>> Also how much disk space for the virtual hard disk?
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 


From cfoust at infostatsystems.com  Mon Aug 24 18:07:20 2009
From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:07:20 -0700
Subject: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev
In-Reply-To: <4A9303B8.20507@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <4A9303B8.20507@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <F55048AF7E974F429BB24597D7355EEABFADE0@INFOSERVER04.infostat.local>

You need to be sure whatever you build will install properly in Vista.
We ran into problems because we had always written to the Local Machine
in the registry.  Vista pretends to go along with that but it actually
writes to the current user, which can cause a lot of confusion when
licenses are applied.  We're trying to find a way to use an encrypted
file instead to handle licensing now.

Charlotte Foust 

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 2:19 PM
To: VBA
Subject: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev

I am going to do a virtual machine to do my development on.  This allows
me to move it around on an external disk between host machines.

My question is what OS would you suggest for the VM for development in
.Net?  My available choices are XP, 2003 and Vista (and maybe Server
2008).

Also how much disk space for the virtual hard disk?

Even though I have been using Vista on my main development laptop for a
couple of years, I still hate it, so that would not be my first choice.

Windows 2003 is a very stable environment but it is also a server OS and
I have run into a lot of applications, PerfectDisk for example, which
refuse to run on a server OS OR want you to pay hundreds of dollars for
something that costs $50 for XP.

Which leaves me with XP which is getting long in the tooth.

Any yes, I have a copy of Server 2008 which I assume would have the same
"is a server OS" issues that 2003 brings with it.

Any thoughts on this?

BTW I think I am going to bring up a server machine (real hardware) to
run the Server 2008 license I have.

-



From max.wanadoo at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 18:26:18 2009
From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 00:26:18 +0100
Subject: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...
In-Reply-To: <003801ca24e7$6acb15a0$406140e0$@spb.ru>
References: <003301ca24e1$c0a99060$41fcb120$@spb.ru>	<4a92d5e6.0a1ad00a.0893.0512@mx.google.com>
	<003801ca24e7$6acb15a0$406140e0$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <4a9321b5.0707d00a.07f0.76d4@mx.google.com>

Well actually we have quite a few single letter word.

A? as in, what?
C? as in, see I told you so"
K? as in, OK.
O! as in, Oh!
P. as in Pee.
T. as in Tea.
U. as in You.
Y. as in Why.

Bit contrived, but there we go.

Ma



-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov
Sent: 24 August 2009 19:19
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...

?? ;) (pronounced as semi-long 'e' in 'Beatles')

One letter, one word - can you beat Russian? (I didn't yet mention here but there is a special Russian slang broadly used "in masses" here when you can use three, max four words to express everything. I must say this slang is "prohibited" to use when kids and women are around, so I'd not use it here - you can Google YouTube to hear some - Madonna before her visit here this August used one of this words in her advertisement of her coming concert on Palace Square here in St.Petersburg, in front of Hermitage (Hermitage officials and Russian Orthodox Church officials asked Madonna to not use uncensored (Russian) slang during that concert - and she didn't but as usual she behaved rather extravagant during this concert as I have seen in one of the clips (I wasn't there on Palace Square that day))...)

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:03 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...

So?

Max
1 word, 2 letters ha!  You can't beat the British.  Ask anybody, ask the ozzies for instance...


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov
Sent: 24 August 2009 18:39
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...

Hi All,

 

I have found (I?m joking) that Russian is the most laconic language in expressing emotions and emotional states ? I mean Russian usually (always?) needs the least amount of letters to express emotions in written text/verbally ? here is one example - I have got translations from http://translate.google.com ? I can?t guarantee they are all correct. Also I?m not sure that non-Ascii letters will go well through wires ? the main purpose of this message is to test that - could be useful to know how it will work if some code samples here will have national alphabets used):

 

Russian: ????

 

English: I'm joking

Arabic:  ??? ????

Bulgarian: ?? ??? ??????

Hungarian: I'm vicc

Dutch: Ik ben een grapje

Greek: ??? ???????????

Hebrew: ??? ????

Indonesian: Aku bercanda

Spanish: Estoy bromeando

Italian: Sto scherzando

Chinese(Traditional): ?????

German: Ich scherze

Polish: Ja ?artuj?

Portugal: Estou brincando

Romanian: Eu glumesc

Serbs: ????? ??

Slovak: Ja si ?arty

Slovenes: ?alim

??????????: Ako biro

Turkish:  Ben ?aka yap?yorum ya??yorum

Ukrainian: ??????

French: Je plaisante

Hindi: ??? ???? ?? ??? ???

Croatian: ?alim se

Czech: J? si legraci

Swedish: Jag sk?mtar

Estonian: Ma nalja

Japan: ??????????

?

 

As you can see(?) in Russian you need just one word and 4 chars to write/say ?I?m joking?.

 

Thank you.

 

--

Shamil

 

P.S. Gustav, I didn?t find translation to Danish on translate.google.com ? what it is?

_______________________________________________

 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4364 (20090824) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 


_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com





From max.wanadoo at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 18:28:19 2009
From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 00:28:19 +0100
Subject: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev
In-Reply-To: <F55048AF7E974F429BB24597D7355EEABFADE0@INFOSERVER04.infostat.local>
References: <4A9303B8.20507@colbyconsulting.com>
	<F55048AF7E974F429BB24597D7355EEABFADE0@INFOSERVER04.infostat.local>
Message-ID: <4a93222e.0702d00a.3fae.3be7@mx.google.com>

As I keep saying, put it in User Defined Properties  in the FE and BE -
cannot be beaten - travels with the MDB and no way of seeing it.  Encrypt it
too if you want.

No Registry, no .ini, no visible signs.

Max


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust
Sent: 25 August 2009 00:07
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev

You need to be sure whatever you build will install properly in Vista.
We ran into problems because we had always written to the Local Machine
in the registry.  Vista pretends to go along with that but it actually
writes to the current user, which can cause a lot of confusion when
licenses are applied.  We're trying to find a way to use an encrypted
file instead to handle licensing now.

Charlotte Foust 

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 2:19 PM
To: VBA
Subject: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev

I am going to do a virtual machine to do my development on.  This allows
me to move it around on an external disk between host machines.

My question is what OS would you suggest for the VM for development in
.Net?  My available choices are XP, 2003 and Vista (and maybe Server
2008).

Also how much disk space for the virtual hard disk?

Even though I have been using Vista on my main development laptop for a
couple of years, I still hate it, so that would not be my first choice.

Windows 2003 is a very stable environment but it is also a server OS and
I have run into a lot of applications, PerfectDisk for example, which
refuse to run on a server OS OR want you to pay hundreds of dollars for
something that costs $50 for XP.

Which leaves me with XP which is getting long in the tooth.

Any yes, I have a copy of Server 2008 which I assume would have the same
"is a server OS" issues that 2003 brings with it.

Any thoughts on this?

BTW I think I am going to bring up a server machine (real hardware) to
run the Server 2008 license I have.

-

_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From dbdoug at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 18:31:55 2009
From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:31:55 -0700
Subject: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...
In-Reply-To: <4a9321b5.0707d00a.07f0.76d4@mx.google.com>
References: <003301ca24e1$c0a99060$41fcb120$@spb.ru>
	<4a92d5e6.0a1ad00a.0893.0512@mx.google.com>
	<003801ca24e7$6acb15a0$406140e0$@spb.ru>
	<4a9321b5.0707d00a.07f0.76d4@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <4dd71a0c0908241631o7b3bf02cl7bac65ede528ccd5@mail.gmail.com>

Isn't A for 'orses?

Doug

On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 4:26 PM, Max Wanadoo <max.wanadoo at gmail.com> wrote:

> Well actually we have quite a few single letter word.
>
> A? as in, what?
> C? as in, see I told you so"
> K? as in, OK.
> O! as in, Oh!
> P. as in Pee.
> T. as in Tea.
> U. as in You.
> Y. as in Why.
>
>


From cfoust at infostatsystems.com  Mon Aug 24 19:40:59 2009
From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 17:40:59 -0700
Subject: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev
In-Reply-To: <4a93222e.0702d00a.3fae.3be7@mx.google.com>
References: <4A9303B8.20507@colbyconsulting.com><F55048AF7E974F429BB24597D7355EEABFADE0@INFOSERVER04.infostat.local>
	<4a93222e.0702d00a.3fae.3be7@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <F55048AF7E974F429BB24597D7355EEABFADE5@INFOSERVER04.infostat.local>

We're talking .Net here, Max.  Commercial applications.  We do NOT want
them to install this on every machine they own, only licensed copies.
Their mdbs may be SQL Server and their admins have access to the data,
even though the users can't get there.  It's a little more complicated
than it sounds.  When the app was in Access, we did something in the
mdbs.  That is obsolete these days (can you say Citrix?), so we have to
move with the times.

Charlotte Foust

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 4:28 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev

As I keep saying, put it in User Defined Properties  in the FE and BE -
cannot be beaten - travels with the MDB and no way of seeing it.
Encrypt it too if you want.

No Registry, no .ini, no visible signs.

Max




From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Mon Aug 24 22:28:08 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 23:28:08 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] OT: 2008 Server drivers
Message-ID: <4A935A48.3010204@colbyconsulting.com>

I have decided to install 2008 Server Enterprise, 64 bit on one of my machines.  I am wondering what 
server 2008 "looks like", or where it comes from.  Is it 2003 based?  Vista based?

I am wondering where to go for chipset drivers.  It installed just fine and started downloading 
updates.  As I write this it appears that one of the updates (or something) caused a blue screen. 
We shall see if it blew the install out of the water.

To be honest I was impressed that the install worked at all.

-- 
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Mon Aug 24 22:58:53 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 07:58:53 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...
In-Reply-To: <4a9321b5.0707d00a.07f0.76d4@mx.google.com>
References: <003301ca24e1$c0a99060$41fcb120$@spb.ru>	<4a92d5e6.0a1ad00a.0893.0512@mx.google.com>	<003801ca24e7$6acb15a0$406140e0$@spb.ru>
	<4a9321b5.0707d00a.07f0.76d4@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <004f01ca2538$5defbfb0$19cf3f10$@spb.ru>

Max,

?? - is a full word/expression, and the ones you quoted are short-cuts, right?

The meaning of '??' could be:

A? as in, what?
C? as in, see I told you so"
O! as in, Oh!

depending on context and length of pronunciation.

But the main meaning is a bit 'rude' (sorry, I'm just joking/kidding but the main meaning below is quite correct):

?? - 'It doesn't matter for me what you're telling, I don't care at all about that, you didn't convince me, do you have stronger/more reasonable arguments? If you'll continue that way, I'll lose my patience - ?... - you'll see then what I'll do with you...'

;)

--
Shamil

P.S. Leaving this morning for a short one day break, will go to collect wild mushrooms - a kind of sport here :)...

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo
Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 3:26 AM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...

Well actually we have quite a few single letter word.

A? as in, what?
C? as in, see I told you so"
K? as in, OK.
O! as in, Oh!
P. as in Pee.
T. as in Tea.
U. as in You.
Y. as in Why.

Bit contrived, but there we go.

Ma


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov
Sent: 24 August 2009 19:19
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...

?? ;) (pronounced as semi-long 'e' in 'Beatles')

One letter, one word - can you beat Russian? (I didn't yet mention here but there is a special Russian slang broadly used "in masses" here when you can use three, max four words to express everything. I must say this slang is "prohibited" to use when kids and women are around, so I'd not use it here - you can Google YouTube to hear some - Madonna before her visit here this August used one of this words in her advertisement of her coming concert on Palace Square here in St.Petersburg, in front of Hermitage (Hermitage officials and Russian Orthodox Church officials asked Madonna to not use uncensored (Russian) slang during that concert - and she didn't but as usual she behaved rather extravagant during this concert as I have seen in one of the clips (I wasn't there on Palace Square that day))...)

---
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:03 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...

So?

Max
1 word, 2 letters ha!  You can't beat the British.  Ask anybody, ask the ozzies for instance...


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov
Sent: 24 August 2009 18:39
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...

Hi All,

 

I have found (I?m joking) that Russian is the most laconic language in expressing emotions and emotional states ? I mean Russian usually (always?) needs the least amount of letters to express emotions in written text/verbally ? here is one example - I have got translations from http://translate.google.com ? I can?t guarantee they are all correct. Also I?m not sure that non-Ascii letters will go well through wires ? the main purpose of this message is to test that - could be useful to know how it will work if some code samples here will have national alphabets used):

 

Russian: ????

 

English: I'm joking

Arabic:  ??? ????

Bulgarian: ?? ??? ??????

Hungarian: I'm vicc

Dutch: Ik ben een grapje

Greek: ??? ???????????

Hebrew: ??? ????

Indonesian: Aku bercanda

Spanish: Estoy bromeando

Italian: Sto scherzando

Chinese(Traditional): ?????

German: Ich scherze

Polish: Ja ?artuj?

Portugal: Estou brincando

Romanian: Eu glumesc

Serbs: ????? ??

Slovak: Ja si ?arty

Slovenes: ?alim

??????????: Ako biro

Turkish:  Ben ?aka yap?yorum ya??yorum

Ukrainian: ??????

French: Je plaisante

Hindi: ??? ???? ?? ??? ???

Croatian: ?alim se

Czech: J? si legraci

Swedish: Jag sk?mtar

Estonian: Ma nalja

Japan: ??????????

?

 

As you can see(?) in Russian you need just one word and 4 chars to write/say ?I?m joking?.

 

Thank you.

 

--

Shamil

 

P.S. Gustav, I didn?t find translation to Danish on translate.google.com ? what it is?


 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4364 (20090824) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 




From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Tue Aug 25 00:49:15 2009
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 15:49:15 +1000
Subject: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...
In-Reply-To: <4a9321b5.0707d00a.07f0.76d4@mx.google.com>
References: <003301ca24e1$c0a99060$41fcb120$@spb.ru>,
	<003801ca24e7$6acb15a0$406140e0$@spb.ru>,
	<4a9321b5.0707d00a.07f0.76d4@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <4A937B5B.3910.BC8709A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

B - as in Buzz of like a B, Max.
E - as in That bloke Max,  e is an ijit.
F - as in I don't really give an F about this post
G - as in Gee, is that all you can think of?
I  - as I don't really care about this post
L  - as in Wot the L as you talking about
Q - as in I wouldn't Q to see this
R - as in R you serious?

YY UR. YY UB. ICUR YY 4 ME 

or th classic Two Ronnies sketch:
http://www2.prestel.co.uk/cello/swedish.htm



On 25 Aug 2009 at 0:26, Max Wanadoo wrote:

> Well actually we have quite a few single letter word.
> 
> A? as in, what?
> C? as in, see I told you so"
> K? as in, OK.
> O! as in, Oh!
> P. as in Pee.
> T. as in Tea.
> U. as in You.
> Y. as in Why.
> 
> Bit contrived, but there we go.
> 
> Ma
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov
> Sent: 24 August 2009 19:19
> To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...
> 
> ? ;) (pronounced as semi-long 'e' in 'Beatles')
> 
> One letter, one word - can you beat Russian? (I didn't yet mention here but there is a special Russian slang broadly used "in masses" here when you can use three, max four words to express everything. I must say this slang is "prohibited" to use when kids and women are around, so I'd not use it here - you can Google YouTube to hear some - Madonna before her visit here this August used one of this words in her advertisement of her coming concert on Palace Square here in St.Petersburg, in front of Hermitage (Hermitage officials and Russian Orthodox Church officials asked Madonna to not use uncensored (Russian) slang during that concert - and she didn't but as usual she behaved rather extravagant during this concert as I have seen in one of the clips (I wasn't there on Palace Square that day))...)
> 
> --
> Shamil
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo
> Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:03 PM
> To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...
> 
> So?
> 
> Max
> 1 word, 2 letters ha!  You can't beat the British.  Ask anybody, ask the ozzies for instance...
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov
> Sent: 24 August 2009 18:39
> To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
> Subject: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...
> 
> Hi All,
> 
>  
> 
> I have found (I?m joking) that Russian is the most laconic language in expressing emotions and emotional states - I mean Russian usually (always?) needs the least amount of letters to express emotions in written text/verbally - here is one example - I have got translations from http://translate.google.com - I can?t guarantee they are all correct Also ITMm not sure that non-Ascii letters will go well through wires " the main purpose of this essage is to test that - could be useful to know how it will work if some code samples here will have national alhabets used):
> 
>  
> 
> Russian: 
> 
>  
> 
> English: I'm joking
> 
> Arabic:   
> 
> Bulgarian:   
> 
> Hungarian: I'm vicc
> 
> Dutch: Ik ben een grapje
> 
> Greek:  
> 
> Hebrew:  
> 
> Indonesian: Aku bercanda
> 
> Spanish: Estoy bromeando
> 
> Italian: Sto scherzando
> 
> Chinese(Traditional): 
> 
> German: Ich scherze
> 
> Polish: Ja zartuje
> 
> Portugal: Estou brincando
> 
> Romanian: Eu glumesc
> 
> Serbs:  
> 
> Slovak: Ja si zarty
> 
> Slovenes: Salim
> 
> : Ako biro
> 
> Turkish:  Ben saka yapiyorum yasiyorum
> 
> Ukrainian: 
> 
> French: Je plaisante
> 
> Hindi:     
> 
> Croatian: Salim se
> 
> Czech: J? si legraci
> 
> Swedish: Jag sk?mtar
> 
> Estonian: Ma nalja
> 
> Japan: 
> 
> ...
> 
>  
> 
> As you can see(?) in Russian you need just one word and 4 chars to write/say "I?m joking".
> 
>  
> 
> Thank you.
> 
>  
> 
> --
> 
> Shamil
> 
>  
> 
> P.S. Gustav, I didn?t find translation to Danish on translate.google.com - what it is?
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
>  
> 
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4364 (20090824) __________
> 
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
> 
> http://www.esetnod32.ru
>  
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 





From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Tue Aug 25 00:57:04 2009
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 15:57:04 +1000
Subject: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev
In-Reply-To: <F55048AF7E974F429BB24597D7355EEABFADE5@INFOSERVER04.infostat.local>
References: <4A9303B8.20507@colbyconsulting.com>,
	<4a93222e.0702d00a.3fae.3be7@mx.google.com>,
	<F55048AF7E974F429BB24597D7355EEABFADE5@INFOSERVER04.infostat.local>
Message-ID: <4A937D30.31885.BCF96FF@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

So use encrypted data in the BE.  You can store as much random rubbish as you want in a 
system table with various embedded nuggets of encrypted information.  Query it on startup.

If the admins touch it at all, your check code won't validate and  the system can trigger an 
alert - then they'll  have to pay for you to fix it. :-)

-- 
Stuart

On 24 Aug 2009 at 17:40, Charlotte Foust wrote:

> We're talking .Net here, Max.  Commercial applications.  We do NOT want
> them to install this on every machine they own, only licensed copies.
> Their mdbs may be SQL Server and their admins have access to the data,
> even though the users can't get there.  It's a little more complicated
> than it sounds.  When the app was in Access, we did something in the
> mdbs.  That is obsolete these days (can you say Citrix?), so we have to
> move with the times.
> 
> Charlotte Foust
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo
> Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 4:28 PM
> To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev
> 
> As I keep saying, put it in User Defined Properties  in the FE and BE -
> cannot be beaten - travels with the MDB and no way of seeing it.
> Encrypt it too if you want.
> 
> No Registry, no .ini, no visible signs.
> 
> Max
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 




From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Tue Aug 25 00:58:44 2009
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 15:58:44 +1000
Subject: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...
In-Reply-To: <004f01ca2538$5defbfb0$19cf3f10$@spb.ru>
References: <003301ca24e1$c0a99060$41fcb120$@spb.ru>,
	<4a9321b5.0707d00a.07f0.76d4@mx.google.com>,
	<004f01ca2538$5defbfb0$19cf3f10$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <4A937D94.14315.BD11EA5@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

Useful - how do you promounce it?

-- 
Stuart

On 25 Aug 2009 at 7:58, Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote:

> Max,
> 
> ? - is a full word/expression, and the ones you quoted are short-cuts, right?
> 
> The meaning of '?' could be:
> 
> A? as in, what?
> C? as in, see I told you so"
> O! as in, Oh!
> 
> depending on context and length of pronunciation.
> 
> But the main meaning is a bit 'rude' (sorry, I'm just joking/kidding
> but the main meaning below is quite correct): 
> 
> ?? - 'It doesn't matter for me what you're telling, I don't care at
> all about that, you didn't convince me, do you have stronger/more
> reasonable arguments? If you'll continue that way, I'll lose my
> patience - ?... - you'll see then what I'll do with you...' 
> 
> ;)
> 
> --
> Shamil




From Gustav at cactus.dk  Tue Aug 25 01:48:47 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 08:48:47 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev
Message-ID: <sa93a57f.028@cactus.dk>

Hi John

Because I don't move that machine around. And I like to have access to all memory available and full speed graphics.

/gustav

>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 25-08-2009 00:02 >>>
Gustav,

 > But my primary development machine I wouldn't run in a VM.

Why is that?  I have used VMs for this for awhile now, and I think it works well.

I have VMS Server on both of my Server 2003 machines and they have very fast processors and lots of 
memory so it makes the VM run fast and I can assign lots of memory to the VM if I need.

OTOH I have VMWare player on my Vista laptop.  While it is a fairly fast laptop it only has 4 gigs 
of RAM.

By running the VM off of a USB drive I can move it around pretty much at will.  I kind of like that.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com 


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi John
> 
> Vista if you ask me. Or, of course, Windows 7 when you can get hold on it.
> Hanging on with Win XP is too lame.
> 
> But my primary development machine I wouldn't run in a VM.
> 
> /gustav
> 
>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 24-08-2009 23:18 >>>
> I am going to do a virtual machine to do my development on.  This allows me to move it around on an 
> external disk between host machines.
> 
> My question is what OS would you suggest for the VM for development in .Net?  My available choices 
> are XP, 2003 and Vista (and maybe Server 2008).
> 
> Also how much disk space for the virtual hard disk?
> 
> Even though I have been using Vista on my main development laptop for a couple of years, I still 
> hate it, so that would not be my first choice.
> 
> Windows 2003 is a very stable environment but it is also a server OS and I have run into a lot of 
> applications, PerfectDisk for example, which refuse to run on a server OS OR want you to pay 
> hundreds of dollars for something that costs $50 for XP.
> 
> Which leaves me with XP which is getting long in the tooth.
> 
> Any yes, I have a copy of Server 2008 which I assume would have the same "is a server OS" issues 
> that 2003 brings with it.
> 
> Any thoughts on this?
> 
> BTW I think I am going to bring up a server machine (real hardware) to run the Server 2008 license I 
> have.






From max.wanadoo at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 13:47:45 2009
From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 19:47:45 +0100
Subject: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...
In-Reply-To: <004f01ca2538$5defbfb0$19cf3f10$@spb.ru>
References: <003301ca24e1$c0a99060$41fcb120$@spb.ru>	<4a92d5e6.0a1ad00a.0893.0512@mx.google.com>	<003801ca24e7$6acb15a0$406140e0$@spb.ru>	<4a9321b5.0707d00a.07f0.76d4@mx.google.com>
	<004f01ca2538$5defbfb0$19cf3f10$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <4a9431f5.0506d00a.27c0.ffffc160@mx.google.com>

Not rude, just the normal vernacular.

For example, I am reading a book or similar and you shout in "Hey Max, fancy a beer?". I say "What do you think I am sitting on?" and you say "..I said beer not chair you stupid old git" and I say "O". as an expression of surprise. And you then say "C", pause and say "I do put my hands in my pockets sometimes" and I say "A", pause and then say "You will have to speak up I am a bit deaf" and you say "Not deaf, daft" and I say "rollocks" 

Max


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov
Sent: 25 August 2009 04:59
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...

Max,

?? - is a full word/expression, and the ones you quoted are short-cuts, right?

The meaning of '??' could be:

A? as in, what?
C? as in, see I told you so"
O! as in, Oh!

depending on context and length of pronunciation.

But the main meaning is a bit 'rude' (sorry, I'm just joking/kidding but the main meaning below is quite correct):

?? - 'It doesn't matter for me what you're telling, I don't care at all about that, you didn't convince me, do you have stronger/more reasonable arguments? If you'll continue that way, I'll lose my patience - ?... - you'll see then what I'll do with you...'

;)

--
Shamil

P.S. Leaving this morning for a short one day break, will go to collect wild mushrooms - a kind of sport here :)...

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo
Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 3:26 AM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...

Well actually we have quite a few single letter word.

A? as in, what?
C? as in, see I told you so"
K? as in, OK.
O! as in, Oh!
P. as in Pee.
T. as in Tea.
U. as in You.
Y. as in Why.

Bit contrived, but there we go.

Ma


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov
Sent: 24 August 2009 19:19
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...

?? ;) (pronounced as semi-long 'e' in 'Beatles')

One letter, one word - can you beat Russian? (I didn't yet mention here but there is a special Russian slang broadly used "in masses" here when you can use three, max four words to express everything. I must say this slang is "prohibited" to use when kids and women are around, so I'd not use it here - you can Google YouTube to hear some - Madonna before her visit here this August used one of this words in her advertisement of her coming concert on Palace Square here in St.Petersburg, in front of Hermitage (Hermitage officials and Russian Orthodox Church officials asked Madonna to not use uncensored (Russian) slang during that concert - and she didn't but as usual she behaved rather extravagant during this concert as I have seen in one of the clips (I wasn't there on Palace Square that day))...)

---
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:03 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...

So?

Max
1 word, 2 letters ha!  You can't beat the British.  Ask anybody, ask the ozzies for instance...


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov
Sent: 24 August 2009 18:39
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...

Hi All,

 

I have found (I?m joking) that Russian is the most laconic language in expressing emotions and emotional states ? I mean Russian usually (always?) needs the least amount of letters to express emotions in written text/verbally ? here is one example - I have got translations from http://translate.google.com ? I can?t guarantee they are all correct. Also I?m not sure that non-Ascii letters will go well through wires ? the main purpose of this message is to test that - could be useful to know how it will work if some code samples here will have national alphabets used):

 

Russian: ????

 

English: I'm joking

Arabic:  ??? ????

Bulgarian: ?? ??? ??????

Hungarian: I'm vicc

Dutch: Ik ben een grapje

Greek: ??? ???????????

Hebrew: ??? ????

Indonesian: Aku bercanda

Spanish: Estoy bromeando

Italian: Sto scherzando

Chinese(Traditional): ?????

German: Ich scherze

Polish: Ja ?artuj?

Portugal: Estou brincando

Romanian: Eu glumesc

Serbs: ????? ??

Slovak: Ja si ?arty

Slovenes: ?alim

??????????: Ako biro

Turkish:  Ben ?aka yap?yorum ya??yorum

Ukrainian: ??????

French: Je plaisante

Hindi: ??? ???? ?? ??? ???

Croatian: ?alim se

Czech: J? si legraci

Swedish: Jag sk?mtar

Estonian: Ma nalja

Japan: ??????????

?

 

As you can see(?) in Russian you need just one word and 4 chars to write/say ?I?m joking?.

 

Thank you.

 

--

Shamil

 

P.S. Gustav, I didn?t find translation to Danish on translate.google.com ? what it is?


 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4364 (20090824) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 


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From max.wanadoo at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 14:34:15 2009
From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 20:34:15 +0100
Subject: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev
In-Reply-To: <F55048AF7E974F429BB24597D7355EEABFADE5@INFOSERVER04.infostat.local>
References: <4A9303B8.20507@colbyconsulting.com><F55048AF7E974F429BB24597D7355EEABFADE0@INFOSERVER04.infostat.local>	<4a93222e.0702d00a.3fae.3be7@mx.google.com>
	<F55048AF7E974F429BB24597D7355EEABFADE5@INFOSERVER04.infostat.local>
Message-ID: <4a943cd9.1c07d00a.2460.4d4e@mx.google.com>

Charlotte,

With code, you can do anything you want to do, whenever, for whoever.  All
without writing to a Registry or a .ini file.

That's all I am saying.

Lets say on the FE you have code which registers itself with the BE and the
BE holds values to indicate, for example.

1.How many installed copies it will allow and details of these.
2. Howe many concurrent users are permitted and logs them on/off as they
connect to it.  Code to inform the users of what is happening (ie, sorry you
have exceeded the licenced concurrent users,  please log off".
3. Expirary date, renewal date, oh endless stuff.

And so on.

Max


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust
Sent: 25 August 2009 01:41
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev

We're talking .Net here, Max.  Commercial applications.  We do NOT want
them to install this on every machine they own, only licensed copies.
Their mdbs may be SQL Server and their admins have access to the data,
even though the users can't get there.  It's a little more complicated
than it sounds.  When the app was in Access, we did something in the
mdbs.  That is obsolete these days (can you say Citrix?), so we have to
move with the times.

Charlotte Foust

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 4:28 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev

As I keep saying, put it in User Defined Properties  in the FE and BE -
cannot be beaten - travels with the MDB and no way of seeing it.
Encrypt it too if you want.

No Registry, no .ini, no visible signs.

Max


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From max.wanadoo at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 14:34:15 2009
From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 20:34:15 +0100
Subject: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...
In-Reply-To: <4dd71a0c0908241631o7b3bf02cl7bac65ede528ccd5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <003301ca24e1$c0a99060$41fcb120$@spb.ru>	<4a92d5e6.0a1ad00a.0893.0512@mx.google.com>	<003801ca24e7$6acb15a0$406140e0$@spb.ru>	<4a9321b5.0707d00a.07f0.76d4@mx.google.com>
	<4dd71a0c0908241631o7b3bf02cl7bac65ede528ccd5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4a943cd4.1c07d00a.2460.4d38@mx.google.com>

H is for aitch.

All cockneys know that.

Max


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele
Sent: 25 August 2009 00:32
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...

Isn't A for 'orses?

Doug

On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 4:26 PM, Max Wanadoo <max.wanadoo at gmail.com> wrote:

> Well actually we have quite a few single letter word.
>
> A? as in, what?
> C? as in, see I told you so"
> K? as in, OK.
> O! as in, Oh!
> P. as in Pee.
> T. as in Tea.
> U. as in You.
> Y. as in Why.
>
>
_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From bheid at sc.rr.com  Tue Aug 25 17:21:51 2009
From: bheid at sc.rr.com (Bobby Heid)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 18:21:51 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] [AccessD] OT: 2008 Server drivers
In-Reply-To: <4A935A48.3010204@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <4A935A48.3010204@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <002701ca25d2$7216b0d0$56441270$@rr.com>

It is my understanding that Vista (maybe Vista SP1) and 2008 share the same
code base.

Thanks,
Bobby

-----Original Message-----
From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 11:28 PM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA
Subject: [AccessD] OT: 2008 Server drivers

I have decided to install 2008 Server Enterprise, 64 bit on one of my
machines.  I am wondering what 
server 2008 "looks like", or where it comes from.  Is it 2003 based?  Vista
based?

I am wondering where to go for chipset drivers.  It installed just fine and
started downloading 
updates.  As I write this it appears that one of the updates (or something)
caused a blue screen. 
We shall see if it blew the install out of the water.

To be honest I was impressed that the install worked at all.

-- 
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com
-- 
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com




From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Wed Aug 26 08:04:15 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 09:04:15 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Dreamspark - FREE DEVELOPER SOFTWARE for students
Message-ID: <4A9532CF.1060505@colbyconsulting.com>

Yesterday I registered at my local community college for a C# class.  In talking to the teacher I 
discovered that Microsoft is giving away software to students.  In order to get the software you 
must have an email address that ends in .edu, which you would get through your school.

I am currently downloading VS 2008 Professional!

Go to:

www.dreamspark.com

Available software:

Visual Studio 2008 Professional
SQL Server 2008 Professional
Windows Server 2008 Standard
Virtual PC
Expression Studio 3
Robotics Developer Studio 2008
XNA game studio 3.1

as well as links to all of the express editions of visual studio (which is already free).  I'm not 
even sure what those last three are.

Conspicuously missing is any version of Office.  But for us developers...

The software comes as an ISO so you will have to burn it to disk or otherwise mount it on a virtual 
disk drive.

BTW AFAICT this may also be available for students "overseas" as we in the US call it.

As for Office, I think I already mentioned:

http://www.microsoft.com/student/discounts/theultimatesteal-us/default.aspx


-- 
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


From Gustav at cactus.dk  Fri Aug 28 05:18:22 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 12:18:22 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] FTP and email in .Net
Message-ID: <sa97cb24.001@cactus.dk>

Hi John et al

If you wish to test sending of e-mail without actually sending it, you'll need a dummy SMTP server or a mock.
I found a very simple one (or rather the C# code to build one) here:

  http://geekswithblogs.net/imilovanovic/archive/2004/09/27/11783.aspx 

Call it like this:

  SmtpMock smtpServerMock = new SmtpMock ();   
  smtpServerMock.Start();  
  System.Web.Mail.SmtpMail.SmtpServer = "localhost";   
  System.Web.Mail.SmtpMail.Send("somebody at foo.com", "everybody at bar.com", "This is the subject", "This is the body.");  
  smtpServerMock.Stop ();

It keeps the log in SessionProtocol.

I'll test this at a later occasion.

/gustav


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 5:27 PM
To: VBA
Subject: [dba-VB] FTP and email in .Net

I am looking (Google) for how to ftp and email in .Net and am not finding anything.  Is this "built in" or otherwise readily available?

-- 
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com 





From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Fri Aug 28 08:11:18 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 09:11:18 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
Message-ID: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>

I am looking at doing an application in C# that needs to be able to run on user systems around the 
country, but manipulate data in a common location.  IOW employees can be anywhere, running this 
program on their machine, but reading / writing data to a central server.

It is a fairly simple application in terms of the data, a hand full of fairly stable and short list 
tables that feed combos, and a couple of "log" kind of tables that document processes.  It would be 
nice to have access to a fairly complex directory structure containing data files that need to be 
imported by and exported from this program.  Again these files are small, less than a thousand lines 
of data, fixed width or CSV.  I am looking at the files now and the largest appear to be 80K or so.

I am thinking that a VPN tunnel to allow access to the data directories, which are then mapped to a 
drive on the local workstation.  Some kind of data store on the server, perhaps SQL Server Express. 
  A local data store to do the import into, manipulation / cleanup of data, export back to files on 
the remote server directory structure.

I am wondering if you guys have experience in setting up this kind of a server and application to 
work on such a server.

-- 
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


From ebarro at verizon.net  Fri Aug 28 08:54:25 2009
From: ebarro at verizon.net (Eric Barro)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 06:54:25 -0700
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <A0EE8D558F30475DA302FCEDB2F81D4F@advancedinput.com>

John,

This is a good candidate for a web service. A web service allows you to
expose certain methods to client machines outside the network.

1. Basically in terms of servers you will need a web server and a database
server (one physical server is possible but two are better due to security
issues).
2. The web server exposes the web service application and takes care of
authentication to the database server. The web server is the only one that
is publicly accessible from the outside.

This saves you from having to set up VPN client software on the client
machines and also saves you from having to purchase hardware to run the VPN
on the server side.

Eric


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 6:11 AM
To: VBA
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet

I am looking at doing an application in C# that needs to be able to run on
user systems around the country, but manipulate data in a common location.
IOW employees can be anywhere, running this program on their machine, but
reading / writing data to a central server.

It is a fairly simple application in terms of the data, a hand full of
fairly stable and short list tables that feed combos, and a couple of "log"
kind of tables that document processes.  It would be nice to have access to
a fairly complex directory structure containing data files that need to be
imported by and exported from this program.  Again these files are small,
less than a thousand lines of data, fixed width or CSV.  I am looking at the
files now and the largest appear to be 80K or so.

I am thinking that a VPN tunnel to allow access to the data directories,
which are then mapped to a drive on the local workstation.  Some kind of
data store on the server, perhaps SQL Server Express. 
  A local data store to do the import into, manipulation / cleanup of data,
export back to files on the remote server directory structure.

I am wondering if you guys have experience in setting up this kind of a
server and application to work on such a server.

--
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com
_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From Gustav at cactus.dk  Fri Aug 28 09:04:50 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 16:04:50 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
Message-ID: <sa98004c.008@cactus.dk>

Hi John

A well-proven method would be to read and write these files from/to an FTP server.
Another method is to store the files as fields in an SQL Server.

Both of these methods, however, may run into trouble meeting clients' firewalls and won't work at all if the server is off-line.

A novel approach would be store them at Amazon Web Services. This is incredible cheap and frees you from running a central server of any kind.

Finally, like Eric tells, the probably fastest method to setup is a web service - could be hosted anywhere.
The VPN method and shared drives I would only recommend for a corporate setup.

It could be interesting following your considerations and solution for the project.

/gustav


>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-08-2009 15:11 >>>
I am looking at doing an application in C# that needs to be able to run on user systems around the 
country, but manipulate data in a common location.  IOW employees can be anywhere, running this 
program on their machine, but reading / writing data to a central server.

It is a fairly simple application in terms of the data, a hand full of fairly stable and short list 
tables that feed combos, and a couple of "log" kind of tables that document processes.  It would be 
nice to have access to a fairly complex directory structure containing data files that need to be 
imported by and exported from this program.  Again these files are small, less than a thousand lines 
of data, fixed width or CSV.  I am looking at the files now and the largest appear to be 80K or so.

I am thinking that a VPN tunnel to allow access to the data directories, which are then mapped to a 
drive on the local workstation.  Some kind of data store on the server, perhaps SQL Server Express. 
  A local data store to do the import into, manipulation / cleanup of data, export back to files on 
the remote server directory structure.

I am wondering if you guys have experience in setting up this kind of a server and application to 
work on such a server.

-- 
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com 





From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Fri Aug 28 10:43:03 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 11:43:03 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <A0EE8D558F30475DA302FCEDB2F81D4F@advancedinput.com>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>
	<A0EE8D558F30475DA302FCEDB2F81D4F@advancedinput.com>
Message-ID: <4A97FB07.9090701@colbyconsulting.com>

Eric,

Thanks for the response.  I assume you are discussing a "browser based application"?

If so there are a couple of issues that I see.
1) I would have to learn a whole new paradigm from scratch.
2) Multi-user issues.

The client is a SOHO with "employees" consisting mostly of family members, who would work from their 
homes.  I understand the "setup" issues but at least for now that would be a very small number of 
machines.  I just talked to the client and, for example, he has two production scanners, one in CT 
and the other in Nashville.  It would be nice for each scanner to drop the scanned files (CSV files) 
into a common directory structure in the office in CT.  The program would then pull the CSVs across 
the internet into the local instance wherever that might be, import it into a local data store, 
process the data, then export the tables back out into a fixed width file back in the same server 
(different path) that the CSV came from.

You get the picture.  The thing that might make this work is that the files are tiny, 80 kb is the 
biggest I have seen so far.  I am actually looking at installing Hamachi on each of his "satellite 
offices" PCs, and building a virtual network around that Hamachi client.

I don't contend that this solution works for a huge system but not every system is huge!  And if it 
gets huge then the money will be there to support hardware VPNs etc.  Or even a port to a web 
service at that point.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Eric Barro wrote:
> John,
> 
> This is a good candidate for a web service. A web service allows you to
> expose certain methods to client machines outside the network.
> 
> 1. Basically in terms of servers you will need a web server and a database
> server (one physical server is possible but two are better due to security
> issues).
> 2. The web server exposes the web service application and takes care of
> authentication to the database server. The web server is the only one that
> is publicly accessible from the outside.
> 
> This saves you from having to set up VPN client software on the client
> machines and also saves you from having to purchase hardware to run the VPN
> on the server side.
> 
> Eric



From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Fri Aug 28 11:19:23 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 12:19:23 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <sa98004c.008@cactus.dk>
References: <sa98004c.008@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <4A98038B.9060806@colbyconsulting.com>

Gustav,

I have been working with this client refactoring the existing application.  It is in Access, and 
works entirely local to his SOHO.  In fact ATM he only has one or two computers running the 
application.  It has a single form about 10 fields, about 10 tables feeding combos and such.

He scans documents received from his clients, using Omnipage.  The user manually selects areas of 
documents and converts those to tables, the Omnipage software does that.  The documents are 
converted to CSV files and stored in a rather elaborate directory structure, probably about 150 
directories total.  Each directory can hold scans of many different documents.  That is all "front 
end" processing and the application is not CURRENTLY involved in that.

The application then imports each document, corrects scan errors, the user potentially manually 
edits fields in specific records if there is an OCR error where the fixit code didn't fix it.  The 
user does some analysis of the data.  Once satisfied with the edits, the data is exported back to a 
fixed width file which is a government specified format.  Those files are returned to his clients.

The application is really simple.  But he does want to be able to have several scanners in remote 
locations doing the scanning, and several instances of the application doing the conversion of the 
CSVs, and writing back to this fixed width file format, all reads / writes to a central location.

I think a simple Hamachi VPN is going to do the trick.  Being a SOHO and satellites in his kid's 
homes, corporate firewalls are less of an issue.  What is an issue is cost and complexity.  He and I 
ARE the IT department, and in the future IT will mostly be me.

So far what I have done for him has impressed.  He has another application planned which could be 
for sale.  That would be larger, would have to be more robust and a web application might be in 
order.  Even there though it appears that his clients are often smallish companies that might not 
have IT staff or not a big IT staff.

So I am coming up to speed on .net, C# etc in order to meet the future.  I think that this first app 
doesn't really NEED C#, it could be done totally in Access (it currently is in Access).  I do think 
that C# would be more robust and easier to update, upgrade and would handle some of the possible 
issues with talking to a centralized SQL Server instance a little easier.  If I have to go unbound / 
disconnected I might as well do it in C# or a cousin.

So I thought I would port it "for free".  Once the C# version does what the Access version already 
does and the client signs off on it, then I would go back to paid work on future stuff.  I need a 
live app in .Net to get me in Visual Studio on a daily basis.  I have done a fair amount of VB.Net 
stuff but without a reason to keep at it, it tends to be dropped after awhile.

 > A well-proven method would be to read and write these files from/to an FTP server.

I could certainly do that.  In fact I have to determine that Hamachi is actually capable to begin 
with, otherwise I will be back to casting around for solutions, and FTP might be the solution.

 > Another method is to store the files as fields in an SQL Server.

This is a great idea.  A simple application could monitor the directories and automatically open the 
files and import them into SQL Server.  Once in SQL Server, the current application would process 
SQL Server records instead of CSV files.  Likewise exporting the records back to the fixed width 
files for return to the client.

I will definitely have to keep that in mind.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi John
> 
> A well-proven method would be to read and write these files from/to an FTP server.
> Another method is to store the files as fields in an SQL Server.
> 
> Both of these methods, however, may run into trouble meeting clients' firewalls and won't work at all if the server is off-line.
> 
> A novel approach would be store them at Amazon Web Services. This is incredible cheap and frees you from running a central server of any kind.
> 
> Finally, like Eric tells, the probably fastest method to setup is a web service - could be hosted anywhere.
> The VPN method and shared drives I would only recommend for a corporate setup.
> 
> It could be interesting following your considerations and solution for the project.
> 
> /gustav



From Gustav at cactus.dk  Fri Aug 28 11:49:22 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 18:49:22 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
Message-ID: <sa9826c0.009@cactus.dk>

Hi John

OK, that gives a better picture. This is not a "corporate" project.

If you almost have the application running in Access, a close to zero cost (wild?) option would be to establish a shared drive with the Gladinet Cloud Desktop:

  http://www.gladinet.com 

which creates a local drive from one of these storage options:

Amazon Simple Storage Service (S3)
Google Picasa* Program
Google Docs* Program
Folders from Remote PCs - Standard Version only

Monthly costs at these remote storages are either free or extremely low.
One issue would be the sharing of single files but - if stored as discrete files - you will have to manage this somehow no matter what solution you decide for.

/gustav


>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-08-2009 18:19 >>>
Gustav,

I have been working with this client refactoring the existing application.  It is in Access, and 
works entirely local to his SOHO.  In fact ATM he only has one or two computers running the 
application.  It has a single form about 10 fields, about 10 tables feeding combos and such.

He scans documents received from his clients, using Omnipage.  The user manually selects areas of 
documents and converts those to tables, the Omnipage software does that.  The documents are 
converted to CSV files and stored in a rather elaborate directory structure, probably about 150 
directories total.  Each directory can hold scans of many different documents.  That is all "front 
end" processing and the application is not CURRENTLY involved in that.

The application then imports each document, corrects scan errors, the user potentially manually 
edits fields in specific records if there is an OCR error where the fixit code didn't fix it.  The 
user does some analysis of the data.  Once satisfied with the edits, the data is exported back to a 
fixed width file which is a government specified format.  Those files are returned to his clients.

The application is really simple.  But he does want to be able to have several scanners in remote 
locations doing the scanning, and several instances of the application doing the conversion of the 
CSVs, and writing back to this fixed width file format, all reads / writes to a central location.

I think a simple Hamachi VPN is going to do the trick.  Being a SOHO and satellites in his kid's 
homes, corporate firewalls are less of an issue.  What is an issue is cost and complexity.  He and I 
ARE the IT department, and in the future IT will mostly be me.

So far what I have done for him has impressed.  He has another application planned which could be 
for sale.  That would be larger, would have to be more robust and a web application might be in 
order.  Even there though it appears that his clients are often smallish companies that might not 
have IT staff or not a big IT staff.

So I am coming up to speed on .net, C# etc in order to meet the future.  I think that this first app 
doesn't really NEED C#, it could be done totally in Access (it currently is in Access).  I do think 
that C# would be more robust and easier to update, upgrade and would handle some of the possible 
issues with talking to a centralized SQL Server instance a little easier.  If I have to go unbound / 
disconnected I might as well do it in C# or a cousin.

So I thought I would port it "for free".  Once the C# version does what the Access version already 
does and the client signs off on it, then I would go back to paid work on future stuff.  I need a 
live app in .Net to get me in Visual Studio on a daily basis.  I have done a fair amount of VB.Net 
stuff but without a reason to keep at it, it tends to be dropped after awhile.

 > A well-proven method would be to read and write these files from/to an FTP server.

I could certainly do that.  In fact I have to determine that Hamachi is actually capable to begin 
with, otherwise I will be back to casting around for solutions, and FTP might be the solution.

 > Another method is to store the files as fields in an SQL Server.

This is a great idea.  A simple application could monitor the directories and automatically open the 
files and import them into SQL Server.  Once in SQL Server, the current application would process 
SQL Server records instead of CSV files.  Likewise exporting the records back to the fixed width 
files for return to the client.

I will definitely have to keep that in mind.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com 


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi John
> 
> A well-proven method would be to read and write these files from/to an FTP server.
> Another method is to store the files as fields in an SQL Server.
> 
> Both of these methods, however, may run into trouble meeting clients' firewalls and won't work at all if the server is off-line.
> 
> A novel approach would be store them at Amazon Web Services. This is incredible cheap and frees you from running a central server of any kind.
> 
> Finally, like Eric tells, the probably fastest method to setup is a web service - could be hosted anywhere.
> The VPN method and shared drives I would only recommend for a corporate setup.
> 
> It could be interesting following your considerations and solution for the project.
> 
> /gustav




From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Fri Aug 28 12:43:18 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 13:43:18 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] SPAM-LOW:  Re:  Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <sa9826c0.009@cactus.dk>
References: <sa9826c0.009@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <4A981736.6050900@colbyconsulting.com>

Gustav,

I have Hamachi already in place on the client's server as well as my system.  I routinely remote 
desktop in to his machine already.  I had set up the path to the data files (in / out) as a SysVar 
and so I mapped his remote database directory (on his server) to y: on my dev machine here at my 
office and changed my sysvar to point to the new location.

I then ran the existing Access application.  I set up my timer class to time the import, which uses 
a simple docmd.transfertext to pull the data from the CSV file into a first stage processing table.

Looking at five different runs, the time to import 835 records from a CSV file into a local table, 
across the internet using Hamachi is

Import From File took 72915 Milliseconds
Cleanup of raw data took 2354 Milliseconds
Import From File took 59250 Milliseconds
Cleanup of raw data took 4319 Milliseconds
Import From File took 23369 Milliseconds
Cleanup of raw data took 3307 Milliseconds
Import From File took 23354 Milliseconds
Cleanup of raw data took 3447 Milliseconds
Import From File took 23353 Milliseconds
Cleanup of raw data took 3181 Milliseconds

I had done a couple of runs before I set up the timer and the times there were approximately 24 
seconds as well.  So the "normal" time is around 24 seconds, but it can be quite lengthy as you can 
see, 73 seconds in the worst case so far.

What was going on during those longer time imports is unknown.  The server is being used to store 
these scan files as well as process them.  OTOH the server is also a 750 mhz pentium machine, pretty 
slow as servers go.  We have a new server ready to go online.

And of course this assumes fast internet at both ends.

I also built a button to allow them to open the source CSV files in notepad.  That only took

Time to open the file in Notepad 4930 Milliseconds
Time to open the file in Notepad 4290 Milliseconds
Time to open the file in Notepad 2855 Milliseconds
Time to open the file in Notepad 4274 Milliseconds

So obviously the import process itself is taking a fair amount of time.

Anyway... I would guess that for a small company like this, a Hamachi VPN to a central server is 
going to work quite well.  Low cost, reasonably fast, and easy to set up.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi John
> 
> OK, that gives a better picture. This is not a "corporate" project.
> 
> If you almost have the application running in Access, a close to zero cost (wild?) option would be to establish a shared drive with the Gladinet Cloud Desktop:
> 
>   http://www.gladinet.com 
> 
> which creates a local drive from one of these storage options:
> 
> Amazon Simple Storage Service (S3)
> Google Picasa* Program
> Google Docs* Program
> Folders from Remote PCs - Standard Version only
> 
> Monthly costs at these remote storages are either free or extremely low.
> One issue would be the sharing of single files but - if stored as discrete files - you will have to manage this somehow no matter what solution you decide for.
> 
> /gustav



From Gustav at cactus.dk  Fri Aug 28 13:31:00 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 20:31:00 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
Message-ID: <sa983eac.012@cactus.dk>

Hi John

That seems a bit slow to me but when it is set up and running and the price is right it should be fine - I mean, 73 seconds, should it matter?

/gustav


>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-08-2009 19:43 >>>
Gustav,

I have Hamachi already in place on the client's server as well as my system.  I routinely remote 
desktop in to his machine already.  I had set up the path to the data files (in / out) as a SysVar 
and so I mapped his remote database directory (on his server) to y: on my dev machine here at my 
office and changed my sysvar to point to the new location.

I then ran the existing Access application.  I set up my timer class to time the import, which uses 
a simple docmd.transfertext to pull the data from the CSV file into a first stage processing table.

Looking at five different runs, the time to import 835 records from a CSV file into a local table, 
across the internet using Hamachi is

Import From File took 72915 Milliseconds
Cleanup of raw data took 2354 Milliseconds
Import From File took 59250 Milliseconds
Cleanup of raw data took 4319 Milliseconds
Import From File took 23369 Milliseconds
Cleanup of raw data took 3307 Milliseconds
Import From File took 23354 Milliseconds
Cleanup of raw data took 3447 Milliseconds
Import From File took 23353 Milliseconds
Cleanup of raw data took 3181 Milliseconds

I had done a couple of runs before I set up the timer and the times there were approximately 24 
seconds as well.  So the "normal" time is around 24 seconds, but it can be quite lengthy as you can 
see, 73 seconds in the worst case so far.

What was going on during those longer time imports is unknown.  The server is being used to store 
these scan files as well as process them.  OTOH the server is also a 750 mhz pentium machine, pretty 
slow as servers go.  We have a new server ready to go online.

And of course this assumes fast internet at both ends.

I also built a button to allow them to open the source CSV files in notepad.  That only took

Time to open the file in Notepad 4930 Milliseconds
Time to open the file in Notepad 4290 Milliseconds
Time to open the file in Notepad 2855 Milliseconds
Time to open the file in Notepad 4274 Milliseconds

So obviously the import process itself is taking a fair amount of time.

Anyway... I would guess that for a small company like this, a Hamachi VPN to a central server is 
going to work quite well.  Low cost, reasonably fast, and easy to set up.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com 


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi John
> 
> OK, that gives a better picture. This is not a "corporate" project.
> 
> If you almost have the application running in Access, a close to zero cost (wild?) option would be to establish a shared drive with the Gladinet Cloud Desktop:
> 
>   http://www.gladinet.com 
> 
> which creates a local drive from one of these storage options:
> 
> Amazon Simple Storage Service (S3)
> Google Picasa* Program
> Google Docs* Program
> Folders from Remote PCs - Standard Version only
> 
> Monthly costs at these remote storages are either free or extremely low.
> One issue would be the sharing of single files but - if stored as discrete files - you will have to manage this somehow no matter what solution you decide for.
> 
> /gustav





From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Fri Aug 28 14:08:51 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:08:51 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] SPAM-LOW:  Re:  Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <sa983eac.012@cactus.dk>
References: <sa983eac.012@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <4A982B43.60402@colbyconsulting.com>

Especially if 24 seconds is the "norm".  Yea, that's not real time but it is over the internet, and 
it is the most complex file handled so far.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi John
> 
> That seems a bit slow to me but when it is set up and running and the price is right it should be fine - I mean, 73 seconds, should it matter?
> 
> /gustav
> 
> 
>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-08-2009 19:43 >>>
> Gustav,
> 
> I have Hamachi already in place on the client's server as well as my system.  I routinely remote 
> desktop in to his machine already.  I had set up the path to the data files (in / out) as a SysVar 
> and so I mapped his remote database directory (on his server) to y: on my dev machine here at my 
> office and changed my sysvar to point to the new location.
> 
> I then ran the existing Access application.  I set up my timer class to time the import, which uses 
> a simple docmd.transfertext to pull the data from the CSV file into a first stage processing table.
> 
> Looking at five different runs, the time to import 835 records from a CSV file into a local table, 
> across the internet using Hamachi is
> 
> Import From File took 72915 Milliseconds
> Cleanup of raw data took 2354 Milliseconds
> Import From File took 59250 Milliseconds
> Cleanup of raw data took 4319 Milliseconds
> Import From File took 23369 Milliseconds
> Cleanup of raw data took 3307 Milliseconds
> Import From File took 23354 Milliseconds
> Cleanup of raw data took 3447 Milliseconds
> Import From File took 23353 Milliseconds
> Cleanup of raw data took 3181 Milliseconds
> 
> I had done a couple of runs before I set up the timer and the times there were approximately 24 
> seconds as well.  So the "normal" time is around 24 seconds, but it can be quite lengthy as you can 
> see, 73 seconds in the worst case so far.
> 
> What was going on during those longer time imports is unknown.  The server is being used to store 
> these scan files as well as process them.  OTOH the server is also a 750 mhz pentium machine, pretty 
> slow as servers go.  We have a new server ready to go online.
> 
> And of course this assumes fast internet at both ends.
> 
> I also built a button to allow them to open the source CSV files in notepad.  That only took
> 
> Time to open the file in Notepad 4930 Milliseconds
> Time to open the file in Notepad 4290 Milliseconds
> Time to open the file in Notepad 2855 Milliseconds
> Time to open the file in Notepad 4274 Milliseconds
> 
> So obviously the import process itself is taking a fair amount of time.
> 
> Anyway... I would guess that for a small company like this, a Hamachi VPN to a central server is 
> going to work quite well.  Low cost, reasonably fast, and easy to set up.
> 
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com 



From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Fri Aug 28 14:29:59 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:29:59 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] SPAM-LOW:  Re:  Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <sa983eac.012@cactus.dk>
References: <sa983eac.012@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <4A983037.50105@colbyconsulting.com>

Gustav,

I created a shared directory on my "new" Windows 2008 server and copied the data file directory 
structure to there.  I then remoted in to the client's machine, mapped that new directory on my 
server back to my client's machine drive Y.  Copied my latest version of the FE to his machine and 
ran.

I am therefore now running the application on his server where I do dev work for him when not 
developing on my machine in my office.  I have mapped a directory on my server over Hamachi to Y: on 
that server in his office.  Running the same code:

Time to open the file in Notepad 2156 Milliseconds
Time to open the file in Notepad 500 Milliseconds
Time to open the file in Notepad 594 Milliseconds

Import From File took 5000 Milliseconds
Cleanup of raw data took 3750 Milliseconds
Import From File took 5016 Milliseconds
Cleanup of raw data took 3390 Milliseconds
Import From File took 4531 Milliseconds
Cleanup of raw data took 9031 Milliseconds
Import From File took 4547 Milliseconds
Cleanup of raw data took 3094 Milliseconds

As you can see, my times for the import process is now MUCH faster.  The file server is now hosted 
on my quad core (2 ghz real clock AMD) with 8 gigs of ram running Windows 2008.  BTW My upload speed 
(out of my office to the internet) is not particularly blazing at .5 mbit / second.

I have to conclude that the bottleneck is the server processing speed.  When I was running the app 
on my laptop accessing data at his office, the server was a single core Pentium III 500 mhz machine 
(just checked) running Windows XP SP3 and 256 MB of ram.

Obviously having a new server at his end will help!

I think these numbers are suddenly very usable.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi John
> 
> That seems a bit slow to me but when it is set up and running and the price is right it should be fine - I mean, 73 seconds, should it matter?
> 
> /gustav
> 
> 
>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-08-2009 19:43 >>>
> Gustav,
> 
> I have Hamachi already in place on the client's server as well as my system.  I routinely remote 
> desktop in to his machine already.  I had set up the path to the data files (in / out) as a SysVar 
> and so I mapped his remote database directory (on his server) to y: on my dev machine here at my 
> office and changed my sysvar to point to the new location.
> 
> I then ran the existing Access application.  I set up my timer class to time the import, which uses 
> a simple docmd.transfertext to pull the data from the CSV file into a first stage processing table.
> 
> Looking at five different runs, the time to import 835 records from a CSV file into a local table, 
> across the internet using Hamachi is
> 
> Import From File took 72915 Milliseconds
> Cleanup of raw data took 2354 Milliseconds
> Import From File took 59250 Milliseconds
> Cleanup of raw data took 4319 Milliseconds
> Import From File took 23369 Milliseconds
> Cleanup of raw data took 3307 Milliseconds
> Import From File took 23354 Milliseconds
> Cleanup of raw data took 3447 Milliseconds
> Import From File took 23353 Milliseconds
> Cleanup of raw data took 3181 Milliseconds
> 
> I had done a couple of runs before I set up the timer and the times there were approximately 24 
> seconds as well.  So the "normal" time is around 24 seconds, but it can be quite lengthy as you can 
> see, 73 seconds in the worst case so far.
> 
> What was going on during those longer time imports is unknown.  The server is being used to store 
> these scan files as well as process them.  OTOH the server is also a 750 mhz pentium machine, pretty 
> slow as servers go.  We have a new server ready to go online.
> 
> And of course this assumes fast internet at both ends.
> 
> I also built a button to allow them to open the source CSV files in notepad.  That only took
> 
> Time to open the file in Notepad 4930 Milliseconds
> Time to open the file in Notepad 4290 Milliseconds
> Time to open the file in Notepad 2855 Milliseconds
> Time to open the file in Notepad 4274 Milliseconds
> 
> So obviously the import process itself is taking a fair amount of time.
> 
> Anyway... I would guess that for a small company like this, a Hamachi VPN to a central server is 
> going to work quite well.  Low cost, reasonably fast, and easy to set up.
> 
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com 



From john at winhaven.net  Sat Aug 29 12:32:59 2009
From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 12:32:59 -0500
Subject: [dba-VB] Test2
Message-ID: <00bf01ca28ce$c15779f0$44066dd0$@net>

Test2

No trees were killed in the sending of this message, but a large number of
electrons were terribly inconvenienced.




From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Sat Aug 29 13:19:04 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 22:19:04 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <A0EE8D558F30475DA302FCEDB2F81D4F@advancedinput.com>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>
	<A0EE8D558F30475DA302FCEDB2F81D4F@advancedinput.com>
Message-ID: <002101ca28d5$3357af10$9a070d30$@spb.ru>

Yes, web service would be a good solution here.

I have made a test web service, which is located here:

http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx


You can test it using this code (c#):

using System;

namespace WebServiceDirectTestConsole
{
    class Program
    {
        //
        // Add ASP.NET 2.0 web service reference:
        //
http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx
        //
        static void Main(string[] args)
        {
            try
            {
                const int CALLS_QTY = 10;

                DateTime startTime = DateTime.Now;

 
WebServiceDirectTestConsole.FileServiceSample.WebServiceFacade
                    service = new
WebServiceDirectTestConsole.FileServiceSample.WebServiceFacade();
                
 
//http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/LoremIpsum.txt (50KB)
                string p = @"c:\temp\LoremIpsum.txt";
                string fileName = "testFile";
                string fileText = System.IO.File.ReadAllText(p);
                string text = null;

                for (int i = 1; i <= CALLS_QTY; i++)
                {
                    service.StoreFile(fileName + i.ToString(), fileText);
                    text = service.GetFile(fileName + i.ToString());
                }

                text = service.GetWebServiceUsageStatistics();

                Console.WriteLine(text);

                DateTime endTime = DateTime.Now;

                double elapsedTime = ((TimeSpan)(endTime -
startTime)).TotalSeconds;

                Console.WriteLine("Elapsed Time = {0:#0.00} seconds for {1}
calls ({2}s/call, fileSize = {3})",
                    elapsedTime, CALLS_QTY, elapsedTime / CALLS_QTY,
fileText.Length);

            }
            catch (Exception ex)
            {
                Console.WriteLine(ex.Message);
            }
        }
    }
}

One of the results of the above test runs is the following:

Total Web Calls: 20
Total Web Calls Duration: 20 ticks
Total Store File Web Calls: 10
Total Store File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
Total Get File Web Calls: 10
Total Get File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
Total Delete File Web Calls: 0
Total Delete File Web Calls Duration: 0 ticks
Currently Stored Files: 10
Currently Stored Files  Length: 503440

FILES
-----
fileName = testFile1, length = 50344
fileName = testFile2, length = 50344
fileName = testFile3, length = 50344
fileName = testFile4, length = 50344
fileName = testFile5, length = 50344
fileName = testFile6, length = 50344
fileName = testFile7, length = 50344
fileName = testFile8, length = 50344
fileName = testFile9, length = 50344
fileName = testFile10, length = 50344

Elapsed Time = 6,80 seconds for 10 calls (0,6799s/call, fileSize = 50467)


If you are interested we can make intensive test of this sample web service.

(I personally would be interested in such testing.)
I will make all its source code (simple) available on
northwind.codeplex.com.
This sample web service has already MS Access/VBA callable wrapper ActiveX
DLLs.

Thank you.

--
Shamil

P.S. Here is how the same web service can be called from MS Access/VBA using
ActiveX DLL wrapper library:

Option Compare Database
Option Explicit

Public Function TestWebServiceAdv()
Dim service As New MSAccessWebService
Const CALLS_QTY As Integer = 10
    Dim startTime As Date
    startTime = Now
    
    '//http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/LoremIpsum.txt (50KB)
    Dim p As String
    p = "c:\temp\LoremIpsum.txt"
    
    Dim fileName As String
    fileName = "testFile"
    Dim fileText As String
    fileText = ReadAllText(p)
    Dim text As String
    Dim i As Integer

    For i = 1 To CALLS_QTY Step 1
        service.StoreFile fileName + CStr(i), fileText
        text = service.GetFile(fileName + CStr(i))
    Next i
    
    Dim endTime As Date
    endTime = Now
    
    text = service.GetWebServiceUsageStatistics()
    Debug.Print text
    
    Dim elapsedTime As Double
    elapsedTime = DateDiff("s", startTime, endTime)
    Debug.Print elapsedTime & " seconds per " & _
           CStr(CALLS_QTY) & " calls"
End Function
                
Private Function ReadAllText(filePath As String) _
   As String
Dim text As String
Dim fn As Integer
Dim fileLen As Long
    fn = FreeFile
    Open filePath For Input As #fn
    fileLen = LOF(fn)
    text = Input(fileLen, fn)
    Close fn
    ReadAllText = text
End Function

One of the test calls results is the following:

Total Web Calls: 20
Total Web Calls Duration: 20 ticks
Total Store File Web Calls: 10
Total Store File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
Total Get File Web Calls: 10
Total Get File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
Total Delete File Web Calls: 0
Total Delete File Web Calls Duration: 0 ticks
Currently Stored Files: 10
Currently Stored Files  Length: 503460

FILES
-----
fileName = testFile1, length = 50346
fileName = testFile2, length = 50346
fileName = testFile3, length = 50346
fileName = testFile4, length = 50346
fileName = testFile5, length = 50346
fileName = testFile6, length = 50346
fileName = testFile7, length = 50346
fileName = testFile8, length = 50346
fileName = testFile9, length = 50346
fileName = testFile10, length = 50346

8 seconds per 10 calls


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Eric Barro
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 5:54 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet

John,

This is a good candidate for a web service. A web service allows you to
expose certain methods to client machines outside the network.

1. Basically in terms of servers you will need a web server and a database
server (one physical server is possible but two are better due to security
issues).
2. The web server exposes the web service application and takes care of
authentication to the database server. The web server is the only one that
is publicly accessible from the outside.

This saves you from having to set up VPN client software on the client
machines and also saves you from having to purchase hardware to run the VPN
on the server side.

Eric


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 6:11 AM
To: VBA
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet

I am looking at doing an application in C# that needs to be able to run on
user systems around the country, but manipulate data in a common location.
IOW employees can be anywhere, running this program on their machine, but
reading / writing data to a central server.

It is a fairly simple application in terms of the data, a hand full of
fairly stable and short list tables that feed combos, and a couple of "log"
kind of tables that document processes.  It would be nice to have access to
a fairly complex directory structure containing data files that need to be
imported by and exported from this program.  Again these files are small,
less than a thousand lines of data, fixed width or CSV.  I am looking at the
files now and the largest appear to be 80K or so.

I am thinking that a VPN tunnel to allow access to the data directories,
which are then mapped to a drive on the local workstation.  Some kind of
data store on the server, perhaps SQL Server Express. 
  A local data store to do the import into, manipulation / cleanup of data,
export back to files on the remote server directory structure.

I am wondering if you guys have experience in setting up this kind of a
server and application to work on such a server.

--
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com
_______________________________________________




From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Sat Aug 29 14:15:39 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 15:15:39 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <002101ca28d5$3357af10$9a070d30$@spb.ru>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>	<A0EE8D558F30475DA302FCEDB2F81D4F@advancedinput.com>
	<002101ca28d5$3357af10$9a070d30$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <4A997E5B.20909@colbyconsulting.com>

Thanks Shamil.

What is missing here is an explanation.

1) What IS a web service?
2) What are the pieces, and what do they do?  I assume that there is a service and a client?
3) What is this web service doing?
4) Doesn't it seem that ...

getting IIS and SQL Server set up, writing web services, writing a DLL for the client Access 
database, getting the existing system using the DLL and installing the DLL on each machine...

doesn't all of that seem much more complicated than installing Hamachi and mapping a shared 
directory to a drive letter?

Now, having said that, I have a future project which (if you would slow down and explain just what 
the heck this stuff was) MIGHT be a perfect fit for this technology.  OTOH, the future project is a 
system that I hope to sell to small drug companies.  Whatever this stuff is has to be point and 
click installable as software at the client's site.

As I mentioned to Eric, I am listening, but so far I haven't understood a word of what I am hearing.

Perhaps a reference to some book, or article that explains this stuff step by step...?

Thanks,

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote:
> Yes, web service would be a good solution here.
> 
> I have made a test web service, which is located here:
> 
> http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx
> 
> 
> You can test it using this code (c#):
> 
> using System;
> 
> namespace WebServiceDirectTestConsole
> {
>     class Program
>     {
>         //
>         // Add ASP.NET 2.0 web service reference:
>         //
> http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx
>         //
>         static void Main(string[] args)
>         {
>             try
>             {
>                 const int CALLS_QTY = 10;
> 
>                 DateTime startTime = DateTime.Now;
> 
>  
> WebServiceDirectTestConsole.FileServiceSample.WebServiceFacade
>                     service = new
> WebServiceDirectTestConsole.FileServiceSample.WebServiceFacade();
>                 
>  
> //http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/LoremIpsum.txt (50KB)
>                 string p = @"c:\temp\LoremIpsum.txt";
>                 string fileName = "testFile";
>                 string fileText = System.IO.File.ReadAllText(p);
>                 string text = null;
> 
>                 for (int i = 1; i <= CALLS_QTY; i++)
>                 {
>                     service.StoreFile(fileName + i.ToString(), fileText);
>                     text = service.GetFile(fileName + i.ToString());
>                 }
> 
>                 text = service.GetWebServiceUsageStatistics();
> 
>                 Console.WriteLine(text);
> 
>                 DateTime endTime = DateTime.Now;
> 
>                 double elapsedTime = ((TimeSpan)(endTime -
> startTime)).TotalSeconds;
> 
>                 Console.WriteLine("Elapsed Time = {0:#0.00} seconds for {1}
> calls ({2}s/call, fileSize = {3})",
>                     elapsedTime, CALLS_QTY, elapsedTime / CALLS_QTY,
> fileText.Length);
> 
>             }
>             catch (Exception ex)
>             {
>                 Console.WriteLine(ex.Message);
>             }
>         }
>     }
> }
> 
> One of the results of the above test runs is the following:
> 
> Total Web Calls: 20
> Total Web Calls Duration: 20 ticks
> Total Store File Web Calls: 10
> Total Store File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
> Total Get File Web Calls: 10
> Total Get File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
> Total Delete File Web Calls: 0
> Total Delete File Web Calls Duration: 0 ticks
> Currently Stored Files: 10
> Currently Stored Files  Length: 503440
> 
> FILES
> -----
> fileName = testFile1, length = 50344
> fileName = testFile2, length = 50344
> fileName = testFile3, length = 50344
> fileName = testFile4, length = 50344
> fileName = testFile5, length = 50344
> fileName = testFile6, length = 50344
> fileName = testFile7, length = 50344
> fileName = testFile8, length = 50344
> fileName = testFile9, length = 50344
> fileName = testFile10, length = 50344
> 
> Elapsed Time = 6,80 seconds for 10 calls (0,6799s/call, fileSize = 50467)
> 
> 
> If you are interested we can make intensive test of this sample web service.
> 
> (I personally would be interested in such testing.)
> I will make all its source code (simple) available on
> northwind.codeplex.com.
> This sample web service has already MS Access/VBA callable wrapper ActiveX
> DLLs.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> --
> Shamil
> 
> P.S. Here is how the same web service can be called from MS Access/VBA using
> ActiveX DLL wrapper library:
> 
> Option Compare Database
> Option Explicit
> 
> Public Function TestWebServiceAdv()
> Dim service As New MSAccessWebService
> Const CALLS_QTY As Integer = 10
>     Dim startTime As Date
>     startTime = Now
>     
>     '//http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/LoremIpsum.txt (50KB)
>     Dim p As String
>     p = "c:\temp\LoremIpsum.txt"
>     
>     Dim fileName As String
>     fileName = "testFile"
>     Dim fileText As String
>     fileText = ReadAllText(p)
>     Dim text As String
>     Dim i As Integer
> 
>     For i = 1 To CALLS_QTY Step 1
>         service.StoreFile fileName + CStr(i), fileText
>         text = service.GetFile(fileName + CStr(i))
>     Next i
>     
>     Dim endTime As Date
>     endTime = Now
>     
>     text = service.GetWebServiceUsageStatistics()
>     Debug.Print text
>     
>     Dim elapsedTime As Double
>     elapsedTime = DateDiff("s", startTime, endTime)
>     Debug.Print elapsedTime & " seconds per " & _
>            CStr(CALLS_QTY) & " calls"
> End Function
>                 
> Private Function ReadAllText(filePath As String) _
>    As String
> Dim text As String
> Dim fn As Integer
> Dim fileLen As Long
>     fn = FreeFile
>     Open filePath For Input As #fn
>     fileLen = LOF(fn)
>     text = Input(fileLen, fn)
>     Close fn
>     ReadAllText = text
> End Function
> 
> One of the test calls results is the following:
> 
> Total Web Calls: 20
> Total Web Calls Duration: 20 ticks
> Total Store File Web Calls: 10
> Total Store File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
> Total Get File Web Calls: 10
> Total Get File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
> Total Delete File Web Calls: 0
> Total Delete File Web Calls Duration: 0 ticks
> Currently Stored Files: 10
> Currently Stored Files  Length: 503460
> 
> FILES
> -----
> fileName = testFile1, length = 50346
> fileName = testFile2, length = 50346
> fileName = testFile3, length = 50346
> fileName = testFile4, length = 50346
> fileName = testFile5, length = 50346
> fileName = testFile6, length = 50346
> fileName = testFile7, length = 50346
> fileName = testFile8, length = 50346
> fileName = testFile9, length = 50346
> fileName = testFile10, length = 50346
> 
> 8 seconds per 10 calls
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Eric Barro
> Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 5:54 PM
> To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
> 
> John,
> 
> This is a good candidate for a web service. A web service allows you to
> expose certain methods to client machines outside the network.
> 
> 1. Basically in terms of servers you will need a web server and a database
> server (one physical server is possible but two are better due to security
> issues).
> 2. The web server exposes the web service application and takes care of
> authentication to the database server. The web server is the only one that
> is publicly accessible from the outside.
> 
> This saves you from having to set up VPN client software on the client
> machines and also saves you from having to purchase hardware to run the VPN
> on the server side.
> 
> Eric
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
> Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 6:11 AM
> To: VBA
> Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
> 
> I am looking at doing an application in C# that needs to be able to run on
> user systems around the country, but manipulate data in a common location.
> IOW employees can be anywhere, running this program on their machine, but
> reading / writing data to a central server.
> 
> It is a fairly simple application in terms of the data, a hand full of
> fairly stable and short list tables that feed combos, and a couple of "log"
> kind of tables that document processes.  It would be nice to have access to
> a fairly complex directory structure containing data files that need to be
> imported by and exported from this program.  Again these files are small,
> less than a thousand lines of data, fixed width or CSV.  I am looking at the
> files now and the largest appear to be 80K or so.
> 
> I am thinking that a VPN tunnel to allow access to the data directories,
> which are then mapped to a drive on the local workstation.  Some kind of
> data store on the server, perhaps SQL Server Express. 
>   A local data store to do the import into, manipulation / cleanup of data,
> export back to files on the remote server directory structure.
> 
> I am wondering if you guys have experience in setting up this kind of a
> server and application to work on such a server.
> 
> --
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com
> _______________________________________________
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 


From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Sat Aug 29 15:02:07 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 00:02:07 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <002101ca28d5$3357af10$9a070d30$@spb.ru>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>	<A0EE8D558F30475DA302FCEDB2F81D4F@advancedinput.com>
	<002101ca28d5$3357af10$9a070d30$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <002201ca28e3$978d2f60$c6a78e20$@spb.ru>

Hi All,

I have made additions to the web service/test code - sample text to send to
web service can be now generated on-the-fly/obtained from web service call:

using System;

namespace WebServiceDirectTestConsole
{
    class Program
    {
        //
        // Add ASP.NET 2.0 web service reference:
        //
http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx
        //
        static void Main(string[] args)
        {
            try
            {
                const int CALLS_QTY = 10;

                DateTime startTime = DateTime.Now;

 
WebServiceDirectTestConsole.FileServiceSample.WebServiceFacade
                    service = new
WebServiceDirectTestConsole.FileServiceSample.WebServiceFacade();
                
                string fileName = "testFile";
                string what = "bytes";
                long amount = 30000; // max=71680;
                string fileText = service.GetLoremIpsumText(amount, what);
                string text = null;

                for (int i = 1; i <= CALLS_QTY; i++)
                {
                    service.StoreFile(fileName + i.ToString(), fileText);
                    text = service.GetFile(fileName + i.ToString());
                }

                text = service.GetWebServiceUsageStatistics();

                Console.WriteLine(text);

                DateTime endTime = DateTime.Now;

                double elapsedTime = ((TimeSpan)(endTime -
startTime)).TotalSeconds;

                Console.WriteLine("Elapsed Time = {0:#0.00} seconds for {1}
calls ({2}s/call, fileSize = {3})",
                    elapsedTime, CALLS_QTY, elapsedTime / CALLS_QTY,
fileText.Length);

            }
            catch (Exception ex)
            {
                Console.WriteLine(ex.Message);
            }
        }

    }
}

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil
Salakhetdinov
Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 10:19 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet

Yes, web service would be a good solution here.

I have made a test web service, which is located here:

http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx


You can test it using this code (c#):

using System;

namespace WebServiceDirectTestConsole
{
    class Program
    {
        //
        // Add ASP.NET 2.0 web service reference:
        //
http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx
        //
        static void Main(string[] args)
        {
            try
            {
                const int CALLS_QTY = 10;

                DateTime startTime = DateTime.Now;

 
WebServiceDirectTestConsole.FileServiceSample.WebServiceFacade
                    service = new
WebServiceDirectTestConsole.FileServiceSample.WebServiceFacade();
                
 
//http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/LoremIpsum.txt (50KB)
                string p = @"c:\temp\LoremIpsum.txt";
                string fileName = "testFile";
                string fileText = System.IO.File.ReadAllText(p);
                string text = null;

                for (int i = 1; i <= CALLS_QTY; i++)
                {
                    service.StoreFile(fileName + i.ToString(), fileText);
                    text = service.GetFile(fileName + i.ToString());
                }

                text = service.GetWebServiceUsageStatistics();

                Console.WriteLine(text);

                DateTime endTime = DateTime.Now;

                double elapsedTime = ((TimeSpan)(endTime -
startTime)).TotalSeconds;

                Console.WriteLine("Elapsed Time = {0:#0.00} seconds for {1}
calls ({2}s/call, fileSize = {3})",
                    elapsedTime, CALLS_QTY, elapsedTime / CALLS_QTY,
fileText.Length);

            }
            catch (Exception ex)
            {
                Console.WriteLine(ex.Message);
            }
        }
    }
}

One of the results of the above test runs is the following:

Total Web Calls: 20
Total Web Calls Duration: 20 ticks
Total Store File Web Calls: 10
Total Store File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
Total Get File Web Calls: 10
Total Get File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
Total Delete File Web Calls: 0
Total Delete File Web Calls Duration: 0 ticks
Currently Stored Files: 10
Currently Stored Files  Length: 503440

FILES
-----
fileName = testFile1, length = 50344
fileName = testFile2, length = 50344
fileName = testFile3, length = 50344
fileName = testFile4, length = 50344
fileName = testFile5, length = 50344
fileName = testFile6, length = 50344
fileName = testFile7, length = 50344
fileName = testFile8, length = 50344
fileName = testFile9, length = 50344
fileName = testFile10, length = 50344

Elapsed Time = 6,80 seconds for 10 calls (0,6799s/call, fileSize = 50467)


If you are interested we can make intensive test of this sample web service.

(I personally would be interested in such testing.)
I will make all its source code (simple) available on
northwind.codeplex.com.
This sample web service has already MS Access/VBA callable wrapper ActiveX
DLLs.

Thank you.

--
Shamil

P.S. Here is how the same web service can be called from MS Access/VBA using
ActiveX DLL wrapper library:

Option Compare Database
Option Explicit

Public Function TestWebServiceAdv()
Dim service As New MSAccessWebService
Const CALLS_QTY As Integer = 10
    Dim startTime As Date
    startTime = Now
    
    '//http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/LoremIpsum.txt (50KB)
    Dim p As String
    p = "c:\temp\LoremIpsum.txt"
    
    Dim fileName As String
    fileName = "testFile"
    Dim fileText As String
    fileText = ReadAllText(p)
    Dim text As String
    Dim i As Integer

    For i = 1 To CALLS_QTY Step 1
        service.StoreFile fileName + CStr(i), fileText
        text = service.GetFile(fileName + CStr(i))
    Next i
    
    Dim endTime As Date
    endTime = Now
    
    text = service.GetWebServiceUsageStatistics()
    Debug.Print text
    
    Dim elapsedTime As Double
    elapsedTime = DateDiff("s", startTime, endTime)
    Debug.Print elapsedTime & " seconds per " & _
           CStr(CALLS_QTY) & " calls"
End Function
                
Private Function ReadAllText(filePath As String) _
   As String
Dim text As String
Dim fn As Integer
Dim fileLen As Long
    fn = FreeFile
    Open filePath For Input As #fn
    fileLen = LOF(fn)
    text = Input(fileLen, fn)
    Close fn
    ReadAllText = text
End Function

One of the test calls results is the following:

Total Web Calls: 20
Total Web Calls Duration: 20 ticks
Total Store File Web Calls: 10
Total Store File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
Total Get File Web Calls: 10
Total Get File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
Total Delete File Web Calls: 0
Total Delete File Web Calls Duration: 0 ticks
Currently Stored Files: 10
Currently Stored Files  Length: 503460

FILES
-----
fileName = testFile1, length = 50346
fileName = testFile2, length = 50346
fileName = testFile3, length = 50346
fileName = testFile4, length = 50346
fileName = testFile5, length = 50346
fileName = testFile6, length = 50346
fileName = testFile7, length = 50346
fileName = testFile8, length = 50346
fileName = testFile9, length = 50346
fileName = testFile10, length = 50346

8 seconds per 10 calls


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Eric Barro
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 5:54 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet

John,

This is a good candidate for a web service. A web service allows you to
expose certain methods to client machines outside the network.

1. Basically in terms of servers you will need a web server and a database
server (one physical server is possible but two are better due to security
issues).
2. The web server exposes the web service application and takes care of
authentication to the database server. The web server is the only one that
is publicly accessible from the outside.

This saves you from having to set up VPN client software on the client
machines and also saves you from having to purchase hardware to run the VPN
on the server side.

Eric


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 6:11 AM
To: VBA
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet

I am looking at doing an application in C# that needs to be able to run on
user systems around the country, but manipulate data in a common location.
IOW employees can be anywhere, running this program on their machine, but
reading / writing data to a central server.

It is a fairly simple application in terms of the data, a hand full of
fairly stable and short list tables that feed combos, and a couple of "log"
kind of tables that document processes.  It would be nice to have access to
a fairly complex directory structure containing data files that need to be
imported by and exported from this program.  Again these files are small,
less than a thousand lines of data, fixed width or CSV.  I am looking at the
files now and the largest appear to be 80K or so.

I am thinking that a VPN tunnel to allow access to the data directories,
which are then mapped to a drive on the local workstation.  Some kind of
data store on the server, perhaps SQL Server Express. 
  A local data store to do the import into, manipulation / cleanup of data,
export back to files on the remote server directory structure.

I am wondering if you guys have experience in setting up this kind of a
server and application to work on such a server.

--
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com
_______________________________________________





From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Sat Aug 29 15:42:00 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 00:42:00 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <4A997E5B.20909@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>	<A0EE8D558F30475DA302FCEDB2F81D4F@advancedinput.com>	<002101ca28d5$3357af10$9a070d30$@spb.ru>
	<4A997E5B.20909@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <002301ca28e9$2aaf8f40$800eadc0$@spb.ru>

Hi John,

I have got only a reference to MSDN:

"Web Services in Managed Code"
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/xy59yt45.aspx

This MSDN entry and related ones have rather detailed and step by step
introduction into Web Services subject area.

Hamachi vs. Web Services: it depends - for me using Web Services look
quicker (no need to setup IIS and MS SQL for the sample I presented as it
runs on my ASP.NET hosting site - this sample deployed by XCOPY), more
flexible, scalable etc. To set wrapper activeX DLL (assuming all customers'
PC have target .NET Framework installed) is no more than run a .bat file. 

Of course learning how to use/develop Web Services takes some time. But this
learning will pay back very well - guaranteed.

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 11:16 PM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet

Thanks Shamil.

What is missing here is an explanation.

1) What IS a web service?
2) What are the pieces, and what do they do?  I assume that there is a
service and a client?
3) What is this web service doing?
4) Doesn't it seem that ...

getting IIS and SQL Server set up, writing web services, writing a DLL for
the client Access 
database, getting the existing system using the DLL and installing the DLL
on each machine...

doesn't all of that seem much more complicated than installing Hamachi and
mapping a shared 
directory to a drive letter?

Now, having said that, I have a future project which (if you would slow down
and explain just what 
the heck this stuff was) MIGHT be a perfect fit for this technology.  OTOH,
the future project is a 
system that I hope to sell to small drug companies.  Whatever this stuff is
has to be point and 
click installable as software at the client's site.

As I mentioned to Eric, I am listening, but so far I haven't understood a
word of what I am hearing.

Perhaps a reference to some book, or article that explains this stuff step
by step...?

Thanks,

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote:
> Yes, web service would be a good solution here.
> 
> I have made a test web service, which is located here:
> 
> http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx
> 
> 
> You can test it using this code (c#):
> 
> using System;
> 
> namespace WebServiceDirectTestConsole
> {
>     class Program
>     {
>         //
>         // Add ASP.NET 2.0 web service reference:
>         //
> http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx
>         //
>         static void Main(string[] args)
>         {
>             try
>             {
>                 const int CALLS_QTY = 10;
> 
>                 DateTime startTime = DateTime.Now;
> 
>  
> WebServiceDirectTestConsole.FileServiceSample.WebServiceFacade
>                     service = new
> WebServiceDirectTestConsole.FileServiceSample.WebServiceFacade();
>                 
>  
> //http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/LoremIpsum.txt (50KB)
>                 string p = @"c:\temp\LoremIpsum.txt";
>                 string fileName = "testFile";
>                 string fileText = System.IO.File.ReadAllText(p);
>                 string text = null;
> 
>                 for (int i = 1; i <= CALLS_QTY; i++)
>                 {
>                     service.StoreFile(fileName + i.ToString(), fileText);
>                     text = service.GetFile(fileName + i.ToString());
>                 }
> 
>                 text = service.GetWebServiceUsageStatistics();
> 
>                 Console.WriteLine(text);
> 
>                 DateTime endTime = DateTime.Now;
> 
>                 double elapsedTime = ((TimeSpan)(endTime -
> startTime)).TotalSeconds;
> 
>                 Console.WriteLine("Elapsed Time = {0:#0.00} seconds for
{1}
> calls ({2}s/call, fileSize = {3})",
>                     elapsedTime, CALLS_QTY, elapsedTime / CALLS_QTY,
> fileText.Length);
> 
>             }
>             catch (Exception ex)
>             {
>                 Console.WriteLine(ex.Message);
>             }
>         }
>     }
> }
> 
> One of the results of the above test runs is the following:
> 
> Total Web Calls: 20
> Total Web Calls Duration: 20 ticks
> Total Store File Web Calls: 10
> Total Store File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
> Total Get File Web Calls: 10
> Total Get File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
> Total Delete File Web Calls: 0
> Total Delete File Web Calls Duration: 0 ticks
> Currently Stored Files: 10
> Currently Stored Files  Length: 503440
> 
> FILES
> -----
> fileName = testFile1, length = 50344
> fileName = testFile2, length = 50344
> fileName = testFile3, length = 50344
> fileName = testFile4, length = 50344
> fileName = testFile5, length = 50344
> fileName = testFile6, length = 50344
> fileName = testFile7, length = 50344
> fileName = testFile8, length = 50344
> fileName = testFile9, length = 50344
> fileName = testFile10, length = 50344
> 
> Elapsed Time = 6,80 seconds for 10 calls (0,6799s/call, fileSize = 50467)
> 
> 
> If you are interested we can make intensive test of this sample web
service.
> 
> (I personally would be interested in such testing.)
> I will make all its source code (simple) available on
> northwind.codeplex.com.
> This sample web service has already MS Access/VBA callable wrapper ActiveX
> DLLs.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> --
> Shamil
> 
> P.S. Here is how the same web service can be called from MS Access/VBA
using
> ActiveX DLL wrapper library:
> 
> Option Compare Database
> Option Explicit
> 
> Public Function TestWebServiceAdv()
> Dim service As New MSAccessWebService
> Const CALLS_QTY As Integer = 10
>     Dim startTime As Date
>     startTime = Now
>     
>     '//http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/LoremIpsum.txt (50KB)
>     Dim p As String
>     p = "c:\temp\LoremIpsum.txt"
>     
>     Dim fileName As String
>     fileName = "testFile"
>     Dim fileText As String
>     fileText = ReadAllText(p)
>     Dim text As String
>     Dim i As Integer
> 
>     For i = 1 To CALLS_QTY Step 1
>         service.StoreFile fileName + CStr(i), fileText
>         text = service.GetFile(fileName + CStr(i))
>     Next i
>     
>     Dim endTime As Date
>     endTime = Now
>     
>     text = service.GetWebServiceUsageStatistics()
>     Debug.Print text
>     
>     Dim elapsedTime As Double
>     elapsedTime = DateDiff("s", startTime, endTime)
>     Debug.Print elapsedTime & " seconds per " & _
>            CStr(CALLS_QTY) & " calls"
> End Function
>                 
> Private Function ReadAllText(filePath As String) _
>    As String
> Dim text As String
> Dim fn As Integer
> Dim fileLen As Long
>     fn = FreeFile
>     Open filePath For Input As #fn
>     fileLen = LOF(fn)
>     text = Input(fileLen, fn)
>     Close fn
>     ReadAllText = text
> End Function
> 
> One of the test calls results is the following:
> 
> Total Web Calls: 20
> Total Web Calls Duration: 20 ticks
> Total Store File Web Calls: 10
> Total Store File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
> Total Get File Web Calls: 10
> Total Get File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
> Total Delete File Web Calls: 0
> Total Delete File Web Calls Duration: 0 ticks
> Currently Stored Files: 10
> Currently Stored Files  Length: 503460
> 
> FILES
> -----
> fileName = testFile1, length = 50346
> fileName = testFile2, length = 50346
> fileName = testFile3, length = 50346
> fileName = testFile4, length = 50346
> fileName = testFile5, length = 50346
> fileName = testFile6, length = 50346
> fileName = testFile7, length = 50346
> fileName = testFile8, length = 50346
> fileName = testFile9, length = 50346
> fileName = testFile10, length = 50346
> 
> 8 seconds per 10 calls
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Eric Barro
> Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 5:54 PM
> To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
> 
> John,
> 
> This is a good candidate for a web service. A web service allows you to
> expose certain methods to client machines outside the network.
> 
> 1. Basically in terms of servers you will need a web server and a database
> server (one physical server is possible but two are better due to security
> issues).
> 2. The web server exposes the web service application and takes care of
> authentication to the database server. The web server is the only one that
> is publicly accessible from the outside.
> 
> This saves you from having to set up VPN client software on the client
> machines and also saves you from having to purchase hardware to run the
VPN
> on the server side.
> 
> Eric
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
> Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 6:11 AM
> To: VBA
> Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
> 
> I am looking at doing an application in C# that needs to be able to run on
> user systems around the country, but manipulate data in a common location.
> IOW employees can be anywhere, running this program on their machine, but
> reading / writing data to a central server.
> 
> It is a fairly simple application in terms of the data, a hand full of
> fairly stable and short list tables that feed combos, and a couple of
"log"
> kind of tables that document processes.  It would be nice to have access
to
> a fairly complex directory structure containing data files that need to be
> imported by and exported from this program.  Again these files are small,
> less than a thousand lines of data, fixed width or CSV.  I am looking at
the
> files now and the largest appear to be 80K or so.
> 
> I am thinking that a VPN tunnel to allow access to the data directories,
> which are then mapped to a drive on the local workstation.  Some kind of
> data store on the server, perhaps SQL Server Express. 
>   A local data store to do the import into, manipulation / cleanup of
data,
> export back to files on the remote server directory structure.
> 
> I am wondering if you guys have experience in setting up this kind of a
> server and application to work on such a server.
> 
> --
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com
> _______________________________________________
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 
_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
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From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Sat Aug 29 15:51:10 2009
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 06:51:10 +1000
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <4A997E5B.20909@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>,
	<002101ca28d5$3357af10$9a070d30$@spb.ru>,
	<4A997E5B.20909@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <4A9994BE.30130.138FC586@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

Strictly speaking,

http://www.webopedia.com/DidYouKnow/Computer_Science/2005/web_services.asp

"The term Web service describes a standardized way of integrating Web-based applications 
using the XML, SOAP, WSDL and UDDI open standards over an Internet protocol 
backbone."

http://www.w3schools.com/webservices/ws_intro.asp
What are Web Services?

    * Web services are application components
    * Web services communicate using open protocols
    * Web services are self-contained and self-describing
    * Web services can be discovered using UDDI
    * Web services can be used by other applications
    * XML is the basis for Web services

This latter link is the start of a long tutorial on web services.

Based on your original problem, this is not really what you want at all.  You just want some 
way to transfer data over the internet which is not exposed to all and sundry.

-- 
Stuart


On 29 Aug 2009 at 15:15, jwcolby wrote:

> Thanks Shamil.
> 
> What is missing here is an explanation.
> 
> 1) What IS a web service?
> 2) What are the pieces, and what do they do?  I assume that there is a service and a client?
> 3) What is this web service doing?
> 4) Doesn't it seem that ...
> 



From ebarro at verizon.net  Fri Aug 28 14:52:40 2009
From: ebarro at verizon.net (Eric Barro)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 12:52:40 -0700
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <4A97FB07.9090701@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>
	<A0EE8D558F30475DA302FCEDB2F81D4F@advancedinput.com>
	<4A97FB07.9090701@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <FEEB2721B87C4D879A17B7B130414076@advancedinput.com>

John,

A web service doesn't necessarily need a web browser interface. Any
application can use web services for as long as that application can connect
to the internet.

You are correct that you would have to learn a whole new paradigm but only
in so far as how you reference the web service in your application and of
course creating the web service itself. VS.NET already has template code to
get you started in the right direction. I can also help you get started. As
far as multi-user issues is concerned it's a non-issue because it's handled
behind the scenes by SQL server.

As far as SQL server is concerned, it's just another connection
requesting/updating some data.

I've created web services that some of the managers at work use with Excel
to load up a worksheet with data from a vendor-supplied MRP system. They
just click a button and VBA calls the event that handles the data pull via
the web service. I've also created web services used in a browser-based
application where the user can upload an image file (JPG) to a remote SQL
server where it is saved as a BLOB (binary object) and then displays the
uploaded image on the browser after it is successfully uploaded (again
invoking one of the exposed methods of the web service that specifically
handles that functionality).

The thing with VPN connectivity, FTP, firewalls and the like is that you
have a level of complexity that you have to deal with on the client side to
get it to work correctly and if something goes wrong you have several places
that you have to look into to determine what could have caused the problem.

With the web services approach you can narrow down the troubleshooting.

Here's a sample reference for a web service on my site --
http://www.ebarro.com/webservices/EBarroAPI.asmx

Eric

-----Original Message-----
From: jwcolby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] 
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 8:43 AM
To: ebarro at verizon.net; Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related
programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet

Eric,

Thanks for the response.  I assume you are discussing a "browser based
application"?

If so there are a couple of issues that I see.
1) I would have to learn a whole new paradigm from scratch.
2) Multi-user issues.

The client is a SOHO with "employees" consisting mostly of family members,
who would work from their homes.  I understand the "setup" issues but at
least for now that would be a very small number of machines.  I just talked
to the client and, for example, he has two production scanners, one in CT
and the other in Nashville.  It would be nice for each scanner to drop the
scanned files (CSV files) into a common directory structure in the office in
CT.  The program would then pull the CSVs across the internet into the local
instance wherever that might be, import it into a local data store, process
the data, then export the tables back out into a fixed width file back in
the same server (different path) that the CSV came from.

You get the picture.  The thing that might make this work is that the files
are tiny, 80 kb is the biggest I have seen so far.  I am actually looking at
installing Hamachi on each of his "satellite offices" PCs, and building a
virtual network around that Hamachi client.

I don't contend that this solution works for a huge system but not every
system is huge!  And if it gets huge then the money will be there to support
hardware VPNs etc.  Or even a port to a web service at that point.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Eric Barro wrote:
> John,
> 
> This is a good candidate for a web service. A web service allows you 
> to expose certain methods to client machines outside the network.
> 
> 1. Basically in terms of servers you will need a web server and a 
> database server (one physical server is possible but two are better 
> due to security issues).
> 2. The web server exposes the web service application and takes care 
> of authentication to the database server. The web server is the only 
> one that is publicly accessible from the outside.
> 
> This saves you from having to set up VPN client software on the client 
> machines and also saves you from having to purchase hardware to run 
> the VPN on the server side.
> 
> Eric



From Gustav at cactus.dk  Fri Aug 28 14:43:16 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 21:43:16 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
Message-ID: <sa984f91.013@cactus.dk>

Hi John

Yes, much better. 
But I wonder why CPU power should be the bottleneck - it certainly should be the upload speed to the Internet. Could it be that this Hamagochi thing is a CPU hog? For an FTP transfer, even a Pentium II could feed files at that speed at little CPU usage ...

/gustav

>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-08-2009 21:29 >>>
Gustav,

I created a shared directory on my "new" Windows 2008 server and copied the data file directory 
structure to there.  I then remoted in to the client's machine, mapped that new directory on my 
server back to my client's machine drive Y.  Copied my latest version of the FE to his machine and 
ran.

I am therefore now running the application on his server where I do dev work for him when not 
developing on my machine in my office.  I have mapped a directory on my server over Hamachi to Y: on 
that server in his office.  Running the same code:

Time to open the file in Notepad 2156 Milliseconds
Time to open the file in Notepad 500 Milliseconds
Time to open the file in Notepad 594 Milliseconds

Import From File took 5000 Milliseconds
Cleanup of raw data took 3750 Milliseconds
Import From File took 5016 Milliseconds
Cleanup of raw data took 3390 Milliseconds
Import From File took 4531 Milliseconds
Cleanup of raw data took 9031 Milliseconds
Import From File took 4547 Milliseconds
Cleanup of raw data took 3094 Milliseconds

As you can see, my times for the import process is now MUCH faster.  The file server is now hosted 
on my quad core (2 ghz real clock AMD) with 8 gigs of ram running Windows 2008.  BTW My upload speed 
(out of my office to the internet) is not particularly blazing at .5 mbit / second.

I have to conclude that the bottleneck is the server processing speed.  When I was running the app 
on my laptop accessing data at his office, the server was a single core Pentium III 500 mhz machine 
(just checked) running Windows XP SP3 and 256 MB of ram.

Obviously having a new server at his end will help!

I think these numbers are suddenly very usable.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com 


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi John
> 
> That seems a bit slow to me but when it is set up and running and the price is right it should be fine - I mean, 73 seconds, should it matter?
> 
> /gustav
> 
> 
>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-08-2009 19:43 >>>
> Gustav,
> 
> I have Hamachi already in place on the client's server as well as my system.  I routinely remote 
> desktop in to his machine already.  I had set up the path to the data files (in / out) as a SysVar 
> and so I mapped his remote database directory (on his server) to y: on my dev machine here at my 
> office and changed my sysvar to point to the new location.
> 
> I then ran the existing Access application.  I set up my timer class to time the import, which uses 
> a simple docmd.transfertext to pull the data from the CSV file into a first stage processing table.
> 
> Looking at five different runs, the time to import 835 records from a CSV file into a local table, 
> across the internet using Hamachi is
> 
> Import From File took 72915 Milliseconds
> Cleanup of raw data took 2354 Milliseconds
> Import From File took 59250 Milliseconds
> Cleanup of raw data took 4319 Milliseconds
> Import From File took 23369 Milliseconds
> Cleanup of raw data took 3307 Milliseconds
> Import From File took 23354 Milliseconds
> Cleanup of raw data took 3447 Milliseconds
> Import From File took 23353 Milliseconds
> Cleanup of raw data took 3181 Milliseconds
> 
> I had done a couple of runs before I set up the timer and the times there were approximately 24 
> seconds as well.  So the "normal" time is around 24 seconds, but it can be quite lengthy as you can 
> see, 73 seconds in the worst case so far.
> 
> What was going on during those longer time imports is unknown.  The server is being used to store 
> these scan files as well as process them.  OTOH the server is also a 750 mhz pentium machine, pretty 
> slow as servers go.  We have a new server ready to go online.
> 
> And of course this assumes fast internet at both ends.
> 
> I also built a button to allow them to open the source CSV files in notepad.  That only took
> 
> Time to open the file in Notepad 4930 Milliseconds
> Time to open the file in Notepad 4290 Milliseconds
> Time to open the file in Notepad 2855 Milliseconds
> Time to open the file in Notepad 4274 Milliseconds
> 
> So obviously the import process itself is taking a fair amount of time.
> 
> Anyway... I would guess that for a small company like this, a Hamachi VPN to a central server is 
> going to work quite well.  Low cost, reasonably fast, and easy to set up.
> 
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com 



From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Sat Aug 29 20:08:53 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 21:08:53 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <4A9994BE.30130.138FC586@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>,
	<002101ca28d5$3357af10$9a070d30$@spb.ru>,
	<4A997E5B.20909@colbyconsulting.com>
	<4A9994BE.30130.138FC586@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
Message-ID: <4A99D125.1080300@colbyconsulting.com>

 >You just want some way to transfer data over the internet which is not exposed to all and sundry.

Uhhh yep.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Stuart McLachlan wrote:
> Strictly speaking,
> 
> http://www.webopedia.com/DidYouKnow/Computer_Science/2005/web_services.asp
> 
> "The term Web service describes a standardized way of integrating Web-based applications 
> using the XML, SOAP, WSDL and UDDI open standards over an Internet protocol 
> backbone."
> 
> http://www.w3schools.com/webservices/ws_intro.asp
> What are Web Services?
> 
>     * Web services are application components
>     * Web services communicate using open protocols
>     * Web services are self-contained and self-describing
>     * Web services can be discovered using UDDI
>     * Web services can be used by other applications
>     * XML is the basis for Web services
> 
> This latter link is the start of a long tutorial on web services.
> 
> Based on your original problem, this is not really what you want at all.  You just want some 
> way to transfer data over the internet which is not exposed to all and sundry.
> 


From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Sat Aug 29 20:21:21 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 21:21:21 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <002301ca28e9$2aaf8f40$800eadc0$@spb.ru>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>	<A0EE8D558F30475DA302FCEDB2F81D4F@advancedinput.com>	<002101ca28d5$3357af10$9a070d30$@spb.ru>	<4A997E5B.20909@colbyconsulting.com>
	<002301ca28e9$2aaf8f40$800eadc0$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <4A99D411.7000207@colbyconsulting.com>

http://www.hanselman.com/blog/BreakingAllTheRulesWithWCF.aspx

Read all the comments at the bottom.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote:
> Hi John,
> 
> I have got only a reference to MSDN:
> 
> "Web Services in Managed Code"
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/xy59yt45.aspx
> 
> This MSDN entry and related ones have rather detailed and step by step
> introduction into Web Services subject area.
> 
> Hamachi vs. Web Services: it depends - for me using Web Services look
> quicker (no need to setup IIS and MS SQL for the sample I presented as it
> runs on my ASP.NET hosting site - this sample deployed by XCOPY), more
> flexible, scalable etc. To set wrapper activeX DLL (assuming all customers'
> PC have target .NET Framework installed) is no more than run a .bat file. 
> 
> Of course learning how to use/develop Web Services takes some time. But this
> learning will pay back very well - guaranteed.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> --
> Shamil
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
> Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 11:16 PM
> To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
> 
> Thanks Shamil.
> 
> What is missing here is an explanation.
> 
> 1) What IS a web service?
> 2) What are the pieces, and what do they do?  I assume that there is a
> service and a client?
> 3) What is this web service doing?
> 4) Doesn't it seem that ...
> 
> getting IIS and SQL Server set up, writing web services, writing a DLL for
> the client Access 
> database, getting the existing system using the DLL and installing the DLL
> on each machine...
> 
> doesn't all of that seem much more complicated than installing Hamachi and
> mapping a shared 
> directory to a drive letter?
> 
> Now, having said that, I have a future project which (if you would slow down
> and explain just what 
> the heck this stuff was) MIGHT be a perfect fit for this technology.  OTOH,
> the future project is a 
> system that I hope to sell to small drug companies.  Whatever this stuff is
> has to be point and 
> click installable as software at the client's site.
> 
> As I mentioned to Eric, I am listening, but so far I haven't understood a
> word of what I am hearing.
> 
> Perhaps a reference to some book, or article that explains this stuff step
> by step...?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com
> 
> 
> Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote:
>> Yes, web service would be a good solution here.
>>
>> I have made a test web service, which is located here:
>>
>> http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx
>>
>>
>> You can test it using this code (c#):
>>
>> using System;
>>
>> namespace WebServiceDirectTestConsole
>> {
>>     class Program
>>     {
>>         //
>>         // Add ASP.NET 2.0 web service reference:
>>         //
>> http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx
>>         //
>>         static void Main(string[] args)
>>         {
>>             try
>>             {
>>                 const int CALLS_QTY = 10;
>>
>>                 DateTime startTime = DateTime.Now;
>>
>>  
>> WebServiceDirectTestConsole.FileServiceSample.WebServiceFacade
>>                     service = new
>> WebServiceDirectTestConsole.FileServiceSample.WebServiceFacade();
>>                 
>>  
>> //http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/LoremIpsum.txt (50KB)
>>                 string p = @"c:\temp\LoremIpsum.txt";
>>                 string fileName = "testFile";
>>                 string fileText = System.IO.File.ReadAllText(p);
>>                 string text = null;
>>
>>                 for (int i = 1; i <= CALLS_QTY; i++)
>>                 {
>>                     service.StoreFile(fileName + i.ToString(), fileText);
>>                     text = service.GetFile(fileName + i.ToString());
>>                 }
>>
>>                 text = service.GetWebServiceUsageStatistics();
>>
>>                 Console.WriteLine(text);
>>
>>                 DateTime endTime = DateTime.Now;
>>
>>                 double elapsedTime = ((TimeSpan)(endTime -
>> startTime)).TotalSeconds;
>>
>>                 Console.WriteLine("Elapsed Time = {0:#0.00} seconds for
> {1}
>> calls ({2}s/call, fileSize = {3})",
>>                     elapsedTime, CALLS_QTY, elapsedTime / CALLS_QTY,
>> fileText.Length);
>>
>>             }
>>             catch (Exception ex)
>>             {
>>                 Console.WriteLine(ex.Message);
>>             }
>>         }
>>     }
>> }
>>
>> One of the results of the above test runs is the following:
>>
>> Total Web Calls: 20
>> Total Web Calls Duration: 20 ticks
>> Total Store File Web Calls: 10
>> Total Store File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
>> Total Get File Web Calls: 10
>> Total Get File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
>> Total Delete File Web Calls: 0
>> Total Delete File Web Calls Duration: 0 ticks
>> Currently Stored Files: 10
>> Currently Stored Files  Length: 503440
>>
>> FILES
>> -----
>> fileName = testFile1, length = 50344
>> fileName = testFile2, length = 50344
>> fileName = testFile3, length = 50344
>> fileName = testFile4, length = 50344
>> fileName = testFile5, length = 50344
>> fileName = testFile6, length = 50344
>> fileName = testFile7, length = 50344
>> fileName = testFile8, length = 50344
>> fileName = testFile9, length = 50344
>> fileName = testFile10, length = 50344
>>
>> Elapsed Time = 6,80 seconds for 10 calls (0,6799s/call, fileSize = 50467)
>>
>>
>> If you are interested we can make intensive test of this sample web
> service.
>> (I personally would be interested in such testing.)
>> I will make all its source code (simple) available on
>> northwind.codeplex.com.
>> This sample web service has already MS Access/VBA callable wrapper ActiveX
>> DLLs.
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> --
>> Shamil
>>
>> P.S. Here is how the same web service can be called from MS Access/VBA
> using
>> ActiveX DLL wrapper library:
>>
>> Option Compare Database
>> Option Explicit
>>
>> Public Function TestWebServiceAdv()
>> Dim service As New MSAccessWebService
>> Const CALLS_QTY As Integer = 10
>>     Dim startTime As Date
>>     startTime = Now
>>     
>>     '//http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/LoremIpsum.txt (50KB)
>>     Dim p As String
>>     p = "c:\temp\LoremIpsum.txt"
>>     
>>     Dim fileName As String
>>     fileName = "testFile"
>>     Dim fileText As String
>>     fileText = ReadAllText(p)
>>     Dim text As String
>>     Dim i As Integer
>>
>>     For i = 1 To CALLS_QTY Step 1
>>         service.StoreFile fileName + CStr(i), fileText
>>         text = service.GetFile(fileName + CStr(i))
>>     Next i
>>     
>>     Dim endTime As Date
>>     endTime = Now
>>     
>>     text = service.GetWebServiceUsageStatistics()
>>     Debug.Print text
>>     
>>     Dim elapsedTime As Double
>>     elapsedTime = DateDiff("s", startTime, endTime)
>>     Debug.Print elapsedTime & " seconds per " & _
>>            CStr(CALLS_QTY) & " calls"
>> End Function
>>                 
>> Private Function ReadAllText(filePath As String) _
>>    As String
>> Dim text As String
>> Dim fn As Integer
>> Dim fileLen As Long
>>     fn = FreeFile
>>     Open filePath For Input As #fn
>>     fileLen = LOF(fn)
>>     text = Input(fileLen, fn)
>>     Close fn
>>     ReadAllText = text
>> End Function
>>
>> One of the test calls results is the following:
>>
>> Total Web Calls: 20
>> Total Web Calls Duration: 20 ticks
>> Total Store File Web Calls: 10
>> Total Store File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
>> Total Get File Web Calls: 10
>> Total Get File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
>> Total Delete File Web Calls: 0
>> Total Delete File Web Calls Duration: 0 ticks
>> Currently Stored Files: 10
>> Currently Stored Files  Length: 503460
>>
>> FILES
>> -----
>> fileName = testFile1, length = 50346
>> fileName = testFile2, length = 50346
>> fileName = testFile3, length = 50346
>> fileName = testFile4, length = 50346
>> fileName = testFile5, length = 50346
>> fileName = testFile6, length = 50346
>> fileName = testFile7, length = 50346
>> fileName = testFile8, length = 50346
>> fileName = testFile9, length = 50346
>> fileName = testFile10, length = 50346
>>
>> 8 seconds per 10 calls
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Eric Barro
>> Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 5:54 PM
>> To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
>> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
>>
>> John,
>>
>> This is a good candidate for a web service. A web service allows you to
>> expose certain methods to client machines outside the network.
>>
>> 1. Basically in terms of servers you will need a web server and a database
>> server (one physical server is possible but two are better due to security
>> issues).
>> 2. The web server exposes the web service application and takes care of
>> authentication to the database server. The web server is the only one that
>> is publicly accessible from the outside.
>>
>> This saves you from having to set up VPN client software on the client
>> machines and also saves you from having to purchase hardware to run the
> VPN
>> on the server side.
>>
>> Eric
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
>> Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 6:11 AM
>> To: VBA
>> Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
>>
>> I am looking at doing an application in C# that needs to be able to run on
>> user systems around the country, but manipulate data in a common location.
>> IOW employees can be anywhere, running this program on their machine, but
>> reading / writing data to a central server.
>>
>> It is a fairly simple application in terms of the data, a hand full of
>> fairly stable and short list tables that feed combos, and a couple of
> "log"
>> kind of tables that document processes.  It would be nice to have access
> to
>> a fairly complex directory structure containing data files that need to be
>> imported by and exported from this program.  Again these files are small,
>> less than a thousand lines of data, fixed width or CSV.  I am looking at
> the
>> files now and the largest appear to be 80K or so.
>>
>> I am thinking that a VPN tunnel to allow access to the data directories,
>> which are then mapped to a drive on the local workstation.  Some kind of
>> data store on the server, perhaps SQL Server Express. 
>>   A local data store to do the import into, manipulation / cleanup of
> data,
>> export back to files on the remote server directory structure.
>>
>> I am wondering if you guys have experience in setting up this kind of a
>> server and application to work on such a server.
>>
>> --
>> John W. Colby
>> www.ColbyConsulting.com
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> dba-VB mailing list
>> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
>> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
> database 4379 (20090829) __________
> 
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
> 
> http://www.esetnod32.ru
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 


From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Sun Aug 30 02:38:28 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 11:38:28 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <4A99D411.7000207@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>	<A0EE8D558F30475DA302FCEDB2F81D4F@advancedinput.com>	<002101ca28d5$3357af10$9a070d30$@spb.ru>	<4A997E5B.20909@colbyconsulting.com>	<002301ca28e9$2aaf8f40$800eadc0$@spb.ru>
	<4A99D411.7000207@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <002d01ca2944$df79b210$9e6d1630$@spb.ru>

Hi John,

I did read comments from the ref you quoted here - they are a usual "junk" -
I mean real developers who use MS software do not waste time on writing
comments how bad this MS software is :) I can assure you (as many other
developers here) it's not that bad as you can find reading all that "junk
comments".

BTW, I liked this comment, which I classify as very helpful, and coming from
experienced developer (as I also am BTW :)O:

<<<<<<<<<<
Ben Kloosterman, 21 June 2009, 20:38:34 (Pacific Standard Time, UTC-08:00)

The problem is not with WCF (or Axis) but with people who choose overly
complicated scenarios. WCF is far superior to Axis though because Services
framework allow things people use them. 

eg 
- Security 95% of the time no transport security/encryption is sufficient.
- Use custom headers dont fudge it like the article , this method is very
common .
- Use complicated types , inheritcance , interfaces , collections etc ..
KISS and use the DTO pattern. ( DOnt pollute your business domain with the
need to tranport it)

The big advantage REST has is you cant do the fancy things but everything
you can do with REST you can do with WCF and keep it or even more simple. 

Ben
>>>>>>>>>>>

And BTW, my current proposal is to use SOAP (ASP.NET 2.0) Web Services for
starters - they are easier to start with = you can create such Web Services
within VS2008. Later on you can convert them to WCF/REST web services -
you'll just need to change interface/fa?ade in most of the cases.

And a sample Web Service I created here is exactly a SOAP web service:

http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx

You can find comments on its interface in P.S. of this message. And you can
consume this web service using sample code I provided in my previous
postings within this thread. (All the C# code for this Web Service including
comments is about 270+ code lines long - and that's all you have to write -
no need to code manually .wsdl etc. )

Some of my experience with Web Services:

1) One of my overseas customers (WA) did use web service running on my
hosting site (Moscow, Russia, and it runs within common application pool)
for several months. And this web service was queried dozen times within a
second from his programs running on 5+ computers from his LAN there. Result:
no any major trouble at all.

2) Another customer does use web service developed here to synchronize
two-way "field-force automation" local MS SQL Express databases with central
MS SQL database running behind large ASP.NET application. No problem.

Etc.

Recap: Stop reading "junk comments", start acting.

Thank you.

--
Shamil

P.S. Sample web service interface (Note: this sample web service was made in
one go, without any "heavy load" on brain cells, within a couple of hours
including several times of (XCOPY) deployment on ASP.NET hosting site,
testing etc. - I mean with some more work it can be done 100% "bullet-proof"
but even now it should be strong enough - you can test it):

/// <summary>
/// Test method - Hello, World!
/// </summary>
/// <returns>String 'Hello MS Access World!'</returns>
[WebMethod]
public string HelloWorld()

/// <summary>
/// Stores given file in Web service memory
/// </summary>
/// <param name="fileName">File name</param>
/// <param name="fileText">File text</param>
/// <returns>Stored file length if file stored successfully,
/// otherwise throws ApplicationException </returns>
/// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter is null or
empty</exception>
/// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileText parameter is null or
empty</exception>
/// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter's value length
exceeds 255 chars</exception>
/// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileText parameter's value length
exceeds 100KB chars</exception>
/// <remarks>
/// If the total length of stored files exceed 3MB then web service deletes
/// stored files until there will be enough space to store a new file.
/// </remarks> 
[WebMethod]
public int StoreFile(string fileName, string fileText)

/// <summary>
/// Gets stored on web service side file
/// </summary>
/// <param name="fileName">File name</param>
/// <returns>Stored file text if file retrieved successfully,
/// otherwise throws ApplicationException </returns>
/// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter is null or
empty</exception>
/// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter's value length
exceeds 255 chars</exception>
/// <exception cref="ApplicationException">{fileName} - file not
found</exception>
[WebMethod]
public string GetFile(string fileName)

/// <summary>
/// Delets stored on web service side file
/// </summary>
/// <param name="fileName">File name</param>
/// <returns>True if file deleted successfully,
/// otherwise throws ApplicationException </returns>
/// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter is null or
empty</exception>
/// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter's value length
exceeds 255 chars</exception>
/// <exception cref="ApplicationException">{fileName} - file not
found</exception>
[WebMethod]
public bool DeleteFile(string fileName)

/// <summary>
/// Gets Web Service usage statistics
/// </summary>
/// <returns></returns>
[WebMethod] 
public string GetWebServiceUsageStatistics()

/// <summary>
/// Gets 'Lorem Ipsum...' text
/// </summary>
/// <param name="amount">Speficies amount of <paramref name="what"
parameter/></param>
/// <param name="what">Defines generation units: words, paras, bytes,
lists</param>
/// <returns></returns>
[WebMethod] 
public string GetLoremIpsumText(long amount, string what)


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 5:21 AM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet

http://www.hanselman.com/blog/BreakingAllTheRulesWithWCF.aspx

Read all the comments at the bottom.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com

<<< snip>>>
 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4380 (20090829) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 




From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Sun Aug 30 10:20:46 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 11:20:46 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <002d01ca2944$df79b210$9e6d1630$@spb.ru>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>	<A0EE8D558F30475DA302FCEDB2F81D4F@advancedinput.com>	<002101ca28d5$3357af10$9a070d30$@spb.ru>	<4A997E5B.20909@colbyconsulting.com>	<002301ca28e9$2aaf8f40$800eadc0$@spb.ru>	<4A99D411.7000207@colbyconsulting.com>
	<002d01ca2944$df79b210$9e6d1630$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <4A9A98CE.2090303@colbyconsulting.com>

Shamil,

I understand that only people who have problems write comments about the problems they have.  I also 
understand that if someone uses VS.Net to write both ends of the channel then the probability of 
problems drops dramatically.

I would not characterize such comments a "junk" however, I believe that such problems are very real, 
particularly when you are dealing with disparate technologies on either end.  The article itself was 
found in the C# start page, and he was having problems using .Net to try to talk to a service 
created in some other technology (from the little I actually understood).

What I found daunting was the gobbledegook of terms and technologies being discussed.  It certainly 
appeared to me that the majority of these "junk" comments were .Net developers trying to use .Net to 
subscribe (if that is the correct phrase) to services that were created in some other technology. 
Who had to do so for business reasons, in their work.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote:
> Hi John,
> 
> I did read comments from the ref you quoted here - they are a usual "junk" -
> I mean real developers who use MS software do not waste time on writing
> comments how bad this MS software is :) I can assure you (as many other
> developers here) it's not that bad as you can find reading all that "junk
> comments".
> 
> BTW, I liked this comment, which I classify as very helpful, and coming from
> experienced developer (as I also am BTW :)O:
> 
> <<<<<<<<<<
> Ben Kloosterman, 21 June 2009, 20:38:34 (Pacific Standard Time, UTC-08:00)
> 
> The problem is not with WCF (or Axis) but with people who choose overly
> complicated scenarios. WCF is far superior to Axis though because Services
> framework allow things people use them. 
> 
> eg 
> - Security 95% of the time no transport security/encryption is sufficient.
> - Use custom headers dont fudge it like the article , this method is very
> common .
> - Use complicated types , inheritcance , interfaces , collections etc ..
> KISS and use the DTO pattern. ( DOnt pollute your business domain with the
> need to tranport it)
> 
> The big advantage REST has is you cant do the fancy things but everything
> you can do with REST you can do with WCF and keep it or even more simple. 
> 
> Ben
> 
> And BTW, my current proposal is to use SOAP (ASP.NET 2.0) Web Services for
> starters - they are easier to start with = you can create such Web Services
> within VS2008. Later on you can convert them to WCF/REST web services -
> you'll just need to change interface/fa?ade in most of the cases.
> 
> And a sample Web Service I created here is exactly a SOAP web service:
> 
> http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx
> 
> You can find comments on its interface in P.S. of this message. And you can
> consume this web service using sample code I provided in my previous
> postings within this thread. (All the C# code for this Web Service including
> comments is about 270+ code lines long - and that's all you have to write -
> no need to code manually .wsdl etc. )
> 
> Some of my experience with Web Services:
> 
> 1) One of my overseas customers (WA) did use web service running on my
> hosting site (Moscow, Russia, and it runs within common application pool)
> for several months. And this web service was queried dozen times within a
> second from his programs running on 5+ computers from his LAN there. Result:
> no any major trouble at all.
> 
> 2) Another customer does use web service developed here to synchronize
> two-way "field-force automation" local MS SQL Express databases with central
> MS SQL database running behind large ASP.NET application. No problem.
> 
> Etc.
> 
> Recap: Stop reading "junk comments", start acting.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> --
> Shamil
> 
> P.S. Sample web service interface (Note: this sample web service was made in
> one go, without any "heavy load" on brain cells, within a couple of hours
> including several times of (XCOPY) deployment on ASP.NET hosting site,
> testing etc. - I mean with some more work it can be done 100% "bullet-proof"
> but even now it should be strong enough - you can test it):
> 
> /// <summary>
> /// Test method - Hello, World!
> /// </summary>
> /// <returns>String 'Hello MS Access World!'</returns>
> [WebMethod]
> public string HelloWorld()
> 
> /// <summary>
> /// Stores given file in Web service memory
> /// </summary>
> /// <param name="fileName">File name</param>
> /// <param name="fileText">File text</param>
> /// <returns>Stored file length if file stored successfully,
> /// otherwise throws ApplicationException </returns>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter is null or
> empty</exception>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileText parameter is null or
> empty</exception>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter's value length
> exceeds 255 chars</exception>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileText parameter's value length
> exceeds 100KB chars</exception>
> /// <remarks>
> /// If the total length of stored files exceed 3MB then web service deletes
> /// stored files until there will be enough space to store a new file.
> /// </remarks> 
> [WebMethod]
> public int StoreFile(string fileName, string fileText)
> 
> /// <summary>
> /// Gets stored on web service side file
> /// </summary>
> /// <param name="fileName">File name</param>
> /// <returns>Stored file text if file retrieved successfully,
> /// otherwise throws ApplicationException </returns>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter is null or
> empty</exception>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter's value length
> exceeds 255 chars</exception>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">{fileName} - file not
> found</exception>
> [WebMethod]
> public string GetFile(string fileName)
> 
> /// <summary>
> /// Delets stored on web service side file
> /// </summary>
> /// <param name="fileName">File name</param>
> /// <returns>True if file deleted successfully,
> /// otherwise throws ApplicationException </returns>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter is null or
> empty</exception>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter's value length
> exceeds 255 chars</exception>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">{fileName} - file not
> found</exception>
> [WebMethod]
> public bool DeleteFile(string fileName)
> 
> /// <summary>
> /// Gets Web Service usage statistics
> /// </summary>
> /// <returns></returns>
> [WebMethod] 
> public string GetWebServiceUsageStatistics()
> 
> /// <summary>
> /// Gets 'Lorem Ipsum...' text
> /// </summary>
> /// <param name="amount">Speficies amount of <paramref name="what"
> parameter/></param>
> /// <param name="what">Defines generation units: words, paras, bytes,
> lists</param>
> /// <returns></returns>
> [WebMethod] 
> public string GetLoremIpsumText(long amount, string what)
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 5:21 AM
> To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
> 
> http://www.hanselman.com/blog/BreakingAllTheRulesWithWCF.aspx
> 
> Read all the comments at the bottom.
> 
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com
> 
> <<< snip>>>
>  
> 
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
> database 4380 (20090829) __________
> 
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
> 
> http://www.esetnod32.ru
>  
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 


From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Sun Aug 30 13:13:17 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 22:13:17 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <4A9A98CE.2090303@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>	<A0EE8D558F30475DA302FCEDB2F81D4F@advancedinput.com>	<002101ca28d5$3357af10$9a070d30$@spb.ru>	<4A997E5B.20909@colbyconsulting.com>	<002301ca28e9$2aaf8f40$800eadc0$@spb.ru>	<4A99D411.7000207@colbyconsulting.com>	<002d01ca2944$df79b210$9e6d1630$@spb.ru>
	<4A9A98CE.2090303@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <003a01ca299d$8d97caa0$a8c75fe0$@spb.ru>

Hi John,

OK.

<<<
What I found daunting was the gobbledegook of terms and technologies being
discussed.
>>>
John, if I'd tell you - do not bother about this "gobbledegook" now would
you accept my advice?
I mean you do not need to know all that stuff until you'll really need it -
you can just start developing and releasing SOAP Web Services - it's not
that complicated. 

I do share Ben Kloosterman's opinion: "The problem is not with WCF (or Axis)
(or SOAP) but with people who choose overly complicated scenarios"...

I called comments "junk" because most of them are not constructive, and they
do not help, even disturb beginner .NET developers to start developing and
releasing Web Services - they disturb by creating wrong impression that
developing Web Services using MS software is a very complicated task. And it
isn't.

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 7:21 PM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet

Shamil,

I understand that only people who have problems write comments about the
problems they have.  I also 
understand that if someone uses VS.Net to write both ends of the channel
then the probability of 
problems drops dramatically.

I would not characterize such comments a "junk" however, I believe that such
problems are very real, 
particularly when you are dealing with disparate technologies on either end.
The article itself was 
found in the C# start page, and he was having problems using .Net to try to
talk to a service 
created in some other technology (from the little I actually understood).

What I found daunting was the gobbledegook of terms and technologies being
discussed.  It certainly 
appeared to me that the majority of these "junk" comments were .Net
developers trying to use .Net to 
subscribe (if that is the correct phrase) to services that were created in
some other technology. 
Who had to do so for business reasons, in their work.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote:
> Hi John,
> 
> I did read comments from the ref you quoted here - they are a usual "junk"
-
> I mean real developers who use MS software do not waste time on writing
> comments how bad this MS software is :) I can assure you (as many other
> developers here) it's not that bad as you can find reading all that "junk
> comments".
> 
> BTW, I liked this comment, which I classify as very helpful, and coming
from
> experienced developer (as I also am BTW :)O:
> 
> <<<<<<<<<<
> Ben Kloosterman, 21 June 2009, 20:38:34 (Pacific Standard Time, UTC-08:00)
> 
> The problem is not with WCF (or Axis) but with people who choose overly
> complicated scenarios. WCF is far superior to Axis though because Services
> framework allow things people use them. 
> 
> eg 
> - Security 95% of the time no transport security/encryption is sufficient.
> - Use custom headers dont fudge it like the article , this method is very
> common .
> - Use complicated types , inheritcance , interfaces , collections etc ..
> KISS and use the DTO pattern. ( DOnt pollute your business domain with the
> need to tranport it)
> 
> The big advantage REST has is you cant do the fancy things but everything
> you can do with REST you can do with WCF and keep it or even more simple. 
> 
> Ben
> 
> And BTW, my current proposal is to use SOAP (ASP.NET 2.0) Web Services for
> starters - they are easier to start with = you can create such Web
Services
> within VS2008. Later on you can convert them to WCF/REST web services -
> you'll just need to change interface/fa?ade in most of the cases.
> 
> And a sample Web Service I created here is exactly a SOAP web service:
> 
> http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx
> 
> You can find comments on its interface in P.S. of this message. And you
can
> consume this web service using sample code I provided in my previous
> postings within this thread. (All the C# code for this Web Service
including
> comments is about 270+ code lines long - and that's all you have to write
-
> no need to code manually .wsdl etc. )
> 
> Some of my experience with Web Services:
> 
> 1) One of my overseas customers (WA) did use web service running on my
> hosting site (Moscow, Russia, and it runs within common application pool)
> for several months. And this web service was queried dozen times within a
> second from his programs running on 5+ computers from his LAN there.
Result:
> no any major trouble at all.
> 
> 2) Another customer does use web service developed here to synchronize
> two-way "field-force automation" local MS SQL Express databases with
central
> MS SQL database running behind large ASP.NET application. No problem.
> 
> Etc.
> 
> Recap: Stop reading "junk comments", start acting.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> --
> Shamil
> 
> P.S. Sample web service interface (Note: this sample web service was made
in
> one go, without any "heavy load" on brain cells, within a couple of hours
> including several times of (XCOPY) deployment on ASP.NET hosting site,
> testing etc. - I mean with some more work it can be done 100%
"bullet-proof"
> but even now it should be strong enough - you can test it):
> 
> /// <summary>
> /// Test method - Hello, World!
> /// </summary>
> /// <returns>String 'Hello MS Access World!'</returns>
> [WebMethod]
> public string HelloWorld()
> 
> /// <summary>
> /// Stores given file in Web service memory
> /// </summary>
> /// <param name="fileName">File name</param>
> /// <param name="fileText">File text</param>
> /// <returns>Stored file length if file stored successfully,
> /// otherwise throws ApplicationException </returns>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter is null or
> empty</exception>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileText parameter is null or
> empty</exception>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter's value
length
> exceeds 255 chars</exception>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileText parameter's value
length
> exceeds 100KB chars</exception>
> /// <remarks>
> /// If the total length of stored files exceed 3MB then web service
deletes
> /// stored files until there will be enough space to store a new file.
> /// </remarks> 
> [WebMethod]
> public int StoreFile(string fileName, string fileText)
> 
> /// <summary>
> /// Gets stored on web service side file
> /// </summary>
> /// <param name="fileName">File name</param>
> /// <returns>Stored file text if file retrieved successfully,
> /// otherwise throws ApplicationException </returns>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter is null or
> empty</exception>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter's value
length
> exceeds 255 chars</exception>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">{fileName} - file not
> found</exception>
> [WebMethod]
> public string GetFile(string fileName)
> 
> /// <summary>
> /// Delets stored on web service side file
> /// </summary>
> /// <param name="fileName">File name</param>
> /// <returns>True if file deleted successfully,
> /// otherwise throws ApplicationException </returns>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter is null or
> empty</exception>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter's value
length
> exceeds 255 chars</exception>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">{fileName} - file not
> found</exception>
> [WebMethod]
> public bool DeleteFile(string fileName)
> 
> /// <summary>
> /// Gets Web Service usage statistics
> /// </summary>
> /// <returns></returns>
> [WebMethod] 
> public string GetWebServiceUsageStatistics()
> 
> /// <summary>
> /// Gets 'Lorem Ipsum...' text
> /// </summary>
> /// <param name="amount">Speficies amount of <paramref name="what"
> parameter/></param>
> /// <param name="what">Defines generation units: words, paras, bytes,
> lists</param>
> /// <returns></returns>
> [WebMethod] 
> public string GetLoremIpsumText(long amount, string what)
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 5:21 AM
> To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
> 
> http://www.hanselman.com/blog/BreakingAllTheRulesWithWCF.aspx
> 
> Read all the comments at the bottom.
> 
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com
> 
> <<< snip>>>
>  
> 
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
signature
> database 4380 (20090829) __________
> 
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
> 
> http://www.esetnod32.ru
>  
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 
_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4381 (20090830) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru






From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Sun Aug 30 13:45:58 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 22:45:58 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Posted web service test sample at northwind.codeplex.com
Message-ID: <004001ca29a2$1e6e5b30$5b4b1190$@spb.ru>

Hi All,

 

FYI: I have posted web service test sample at northwind.codeplex.com

 

http://northwind.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=26600#D
ownloadId=81254 

 

More information on this test is posted in another posting here, which waits
moderators approval as its message body is too big: 23418 bytes with a limit
of 20 KB.

 

Thank you.

 

--

Shamil



From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Sun Aug 30 13:51:41 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 14:51:41 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <003a01ca299d$8d97caa0$a8c75fe0$@spb.ru>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>	<A0EE8D558F30475DA302FCEDB2F81D4F@advancedinput.com>	<002101ca28d5$3357af10$9a070d30$@spb.ru>	<4A997E5B.20909@colbyconsulting.com>	<002301ca28e9$2aaf8f40$800eadc0$@spb.ru>	<4A99D411.7000207@colbyconsulting.com>	<002d01ca2944$df79b210$9e6d1630$@spb.ru>	<4A9A98CE.2090303@colbyconsulting.com>
	<003a01ca299d$8d97caa0$a8c75fe0$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <4A9ACA3D.3040206@colbyconsulting.com>

Shamil,

I understand and mostly agree with your opinions.  Of course I will accept your advice, start small, 
and not worry about the gobbledygook..

 > I do share Ben Kloosterman's opinion: "The problem is not with WCF (or Axis) (or SOAP) but with 
people who choose overly complicated scenarios"...

I have to smile because you are recommending soap web services, to someone just coming up to speed 
on C# (taking a beginners class!) to replace a dead simple to implement software VPN and a shared 
directory!

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote:
> Hi John,
> 
> OK.
> 
> <<<
> What I found daunting was the gobbledegook of terms and technologies being
> discussed.
> John, if I'd tell you - do not bother about this "gobbledegook" now would
> you accept my advice?
> I mean you do not need to know all that stuff until you'll really need it -
> you can just start developing and releasing SOAP Web Services - it's not
> that complicated. 
> 
> I do share Ben Kloosterman's opinion: "The problem is not with WCF (or Axis)
> (or SOAP) but with people who choose overly complicated scenarios"...
> 
> I called comments "junk" because most of them are not constructive, and they
> do not help, even disturb beginner .NET developers to start developing and
> releasing Web Services - they disturb by creating wrong impression that
> developing Web Services using MS software is a very complicated task. And it
> isn't.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> --
> Shamil
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 7:21 PM
> To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
> 
> Shamil,
> 
> I understand that only people who have problems write comments about the
> problems they have.  I also 
> understand that if someone uses VS.Net to write both ends of the channel
> then the probability of 
> problems drops dramatically.
> 
> I would not characterize such comments a "junk" however, I believe that such
> problems are very real, 
> particularly when you are dealing with disparate technologies on either end.
> The article itself was 
> found in the C# start page, and he was having problems using .Net to try to
> talk to a service 
> created in some other technology (from the little I actually understood).
> 
> What I found daunting was the gobbledegook of terms and technologies being
> discussed.  It certainly 
> appeared to me that the majority of these "junk" comments were .Net
> developers trying to use .Net to 
> subscribe (if that is the correct phrase) to services that were created in
> some other technology. 
> Who had to do so for business reasons, in their work.
> 
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com
> 
> 
> Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote:
>> Hi John,
>>
>> I did read comments from the ref you quoted here - they are a usual "junk"
> -
>> I mean real developers who use MS software do not waste time on writing
>> comments how bad this MS software is :) I can assure you (as many other
>> developers here) it's not that bad as you can find reading all that "junk
>> comments".
>>
>> BTW, I liked this comment, which I classify as very helpful, and coming
> from
>> experienced developer (as I also am BTW :)O:
>>
>> <<<<<<<<<<
>> Ben Kloosterman, 21 June 2009, 20:38:34 (Pacific Standard Time, UTC-08:00)
>>
>> The problem is not with WCF (or Axis) but with people who choose overly
>> complicated scenarios. WCF is far superior to Axis though because Services
>> framework allow things people use them. 
>>
>> eg 
>> - Security 95% of the time no transport security/encryption is sufficient.
>> - Use custom headers dont fudge it like the article , this method is very
>> common .
>> - Use complicated types , inheritcance , interfaces , collections etc ..
>> KISS and use the DTO pattern. ( DOnt pollute your business domain with the
>> need to tranport it)
>>
>> The big advantage REST has is you cant do the fancy things but everything
>> you can do with REST you can do with WCF and keep it or even more simple. 
>>
>> Ben
>>
>> And BTW, my current proposal is to use SOAP (ASP.NET 2.0) Web Services for
>> starters - they are easier to start with = you can create such Web
> Services
>> within VS2008. Later on you can convert them to WCF/REST web services -
>> you'll just need to change interface/fa?ade in most of the cases.
>>
>> And a sample Web Service I created here is exactly a SOAP web service:
>>
>> http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx
>>
>> You can find comments on its interface in P.S. of this message. And you
> can
>> consume this web service using sample code I provided in my previous
>> postings within this thread. (All the C# code for this Web Service
> including
>> comments is about 270+ code lines long - and that's all you have to write
> -
>> no need to code manually .wsdl etc. )
>>
>> Some of my experience with Web Services:
>>
>> 1) One of my overseas customers (WA) did use web service running on my
>> hosting site (Moscow, Russia, and it runs within common application pool)
>> for several months. And this web service was queried dozen times within a
>> second from his programs running on 5+ computers from his LAN there.
> Result:
>> no any major trouble at all.
>>
>> 2) Another customer does use web service developed here to synchronize
>> two-way "field-force automation" local MS SQL Express databases with
> central
>> MS SQL database running behind large ASP.NET application. No problem.
>>
>> Etc.
>>
>> Recap: Stop reading "junk comments", start acting.
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> --
>> Shamil
>>
>> P.S. Sample web service interface (Note: this sample web service was made
> in
>> one go, without any "heavy load" on brain cells, within a couple of hours
>> including several times of (XCOPY) deployment on ASP.NET hosting site,
>> testing etc. - I mean with some more work it can be done 100%
> "bullet-proof"
>> but even now it should be strong enough - you can test it):
>>
>> /// <summary>
>> /// Test method - Hello, World!
>> /// </summary>
>> /// <returns>String 'Hello MS Access World!'</returns>
>> [WebMethod]
>> public string HelloWorld()
>>
>> /// <summary>
>> /// Stores given file in Web service memory
>> /// </summary>
>> /// <param name="fileName">File name</param>
>> /// <param name="fileText">File text</param>
>> /// <returns>Stored file length if file stored successfully,
>> /// otherwise throws ApplicationException </returns>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter is null or
>> empty</exception>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileText parameter is null or
>> empty</exception>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter's value
> length
>> exceeds 255 chars</exception>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileText parameter's value
> length
>> exceeds 100KB chars</exception>
>> /// <remarks>
>> /// If the total length of stored files exceed 3MB then web service
> deletes
>> /// stored files until there will be enough space to store a new file.
>> /// </remarks> 
>> [WebMethod]
>> public int StoreFile(string fileName, string fileText)
>>
>> /// <summary>
>> /// Gets stored on web service side file
>> /// </summary>
>> /// <param name="fileName">File name</param>
>> /// <returns>Stored file text if file retrieved successfully,
>> /// otherwise throws ApplicationException </returns>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter is null or
>> empty</exception>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter's value
> length
>> exceeds 255 chars</exception>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">{fileName} - file not
>> found</exception>
>> [WebMethod]
>> public string GetFile(string fileName)
>>
>> /// <summary>
>> /// Delets stored on web service side file
>> /// </summary>
>> /// <param name="fileName">File name</param>
>> /// <returns>True if file deleted successfully,
>> /// otherwise throws ApplicationException </returns>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter is null or
>> empty</exception>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter's value
> length
>> exceeds 255 chars</exception>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">{fileName} - file not
>> found</exception>
>> [WebMethod]
>> public bool DeleteFile(string fileName)
>>
>> /// <summary>
>> /// Gets Web Service usage statistics
>> /// </summary>
>> /// <returns></returns>
>> [WebMethod] 
>> public string GetWebServiceUsageStatistics()
>>
>> /// <summary>
>> /// Gets 'Lorem Ipsum...' text
>> /// </summary>
>> /// <param name="amount">Speficies amount of <paramref name="what"
>> parameter/></param>
>> /// <param name="what">Defines generation units: words, paras, bytes,
>> lists</param>
>> /// <returns></returns>
>> [WebMethod] 
>> public string GetLoremIpsumText(long amount, string what)
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
>> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 5:21 AM
>> To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
>> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
>>
>> http://www.hanselman.com/blog/BreakingAllTheRulesWithWCF.aspx
>>
>> Read all the comments at the bottom.
>>
>> John W. Colby
>> www.ColbyConsulting.com
>>
>> <<< snip>>>
>>  
>>
>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
> signature
>> database 4380 (20090829) __________
>>
>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>
>> http://www.esetnod32.ru
>>  
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> dba-VB mailing list
>> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
>> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
> database 4381 (20090830) __________
> 
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
> 
> http://www.esetnod32.ru
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 


From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Sun Aug 30 14:24:45 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 23:24:45 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <4A9ACA3D.3040206@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>	<A0EE8D558F30475DA302FCEDB2F81D4F@advancedinput.com>	<002101ca28d5$3357af10$9a070d30$@spb.ru>	<4A997E5B.20909@colbyconsulting.com>	<002301ca28e9$2aaf8f40$800eadc0$@spb.ru>	<4A99D411.7000207@colbyconsulting.com>	<002d01ca2944$df79b210$9e6d1630$@spb.ru>	<4A9A98CE.2090303@colbyconsulting.com>	<003a01ca299d$8d97caa0$a8c75fe0$@spb.ru>
	<4A9ACA3D.3040206@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <004501ca29a7$89bad300$9d307900$@spb.ru>

Hi John,

Of course you can use "a dead simple to implement software VPN and a shared
directory" - just do not let "gobbledygook" and "misleading comments" to
stop experimenting with .NET Web Services right now: you don't even need to
know what SOAP is as you get all the complexities of communication of client
apps with SOAP web services hidden...

You'll also hear comments that "SOAP Web Services are heavy and slow" etc. -
do not care about that if you do not need response time measured in
milliseconds - and as I have seen from your task description you do not need
such response time...

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 10:52 PM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet

Shamil,

I understand and mostly agree with your opinions.  Of course I will accept
your advice, start small, 
and not worry about the gobbledygook..

 > I do share Ben Kloosterman's opinion: "The problem is not with WCF (or
Axis) (or SOAP) but with 
people who choose overly complicated scenarios"...

I have to smile because you are recommending soap web services, to someone
just coming up to speed 
on C# (taking a beginners class!) to replace a dead simple to implement
software VPN and a shared 
directory!

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote:
> Hi John,
> 
> OK.
> 
> <<<
> What I found daunting was the gobbledegook of terms and technologies being
> discussed.
> John, if I'd tell you - do not bother about this "gobbledegook" now would
> you accept my advice?
> I mean you do not need to know all that stuff until you'll really need it
-
> you can just start developing and releasing SOAP Web Services - it's not
> that complicated. 
> 
> I do share Ben Kloosterman's opinion: "The problem is not with WCF (or
Axis)
> (or SOAP) but with people who choose overly complicated scenarios"...
> 
> I called comments "junk" because most of them are not constructive, and
they
> do not help, even disturb beginner .NET developers to start developing and
> releasing Web Services - they disturb by creating wrong impression that
> developing Web Services using MS software is a very complicated task. And
it
> isn't.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> --
> Shamil
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 7:21 PM
> To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
> 
> Shamil,
> 
> I understand that only people who have problems write comments about the
> problems they have.  I also 
> understand that if someone uses VS.Net to write both ends of the channel
> then the probability of 
> problems drops dramatically.
> 
> I would not characterize such comments a "junk" however, I believe that
such
> problems are very real, 
> particularly when you are dealing with disparate technologies on either
end.
> The article itself was 
> found in the C# start page, and he was having problems using .Net to try
to
> talk to a service 
> created in some other technology (from the little I actually understood).
> 
> What I found daunting was the gobbledegook of terms and technologies being
> discussed.  It certainly 
> appeared to me that the majority of these "junk" comments were .Net
> developers trying to use .Net to 
> subscribe (if that is the correct phrase) to services that were created in
> some other technology. 
> Who had to do so for business reasons, in their work.
> 
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com
> 
> 
> Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote:
>> Hi John,
>>
>> I did read comments from the ref you quoted here - they are a usual
"junk"
> -
>> I mean real developers who use MS software do not waste time on writing
>> comments how bad this MS software is :) I can assure you (as many other
>> developers here) it's not that bad as you can find reading all that "junk
>> comments".
>>
>> BTW, I liked this comment, which I classify as very helpful, and coming
> from
>> experienced developer (as I also am BTW :)O:
>>
>> <<<<<<<<<<
>> Ben Kloosterman, 21 June 2009, 20:38:34 (Pacific Standard Time,
UTC-08:00)
>>
>> The problem is not with WCF (or Axis) but with people who choose overly
>> complicated scenarios. WCF is far superior to Axis though because
Services
>> framework allow things people use them. 
>>
>> eg 
>> - Security 95% of the time no transport security/encryption is
sufficient.
>> - Use custom headers dont fudge it like the article , this method is very
>> common .
>> - Use complicated types , inheritcance , interfaces , collections etc ..
>> KISS and use the DTO pattern. ( DOnt pollute your business domain with
the
>> need to tranport it)
>>
>> The big advantage REST has is you cant do the fancy things but everything
>> you can do with REST you can do with WCF and keep it or even more simple.

>>
>> Ben
>>
>> And BTW, my current proposal is to use SOAP (ASP.NET 2.0) Web Services
for
>> starters - they are easier to start with = you can create such Web
> Services
>> within VS2008. Later on you can convert them to WCF/REST web services -
>> you'll just need to change interface/fa?ade in most of the cases.
>>
>> And a sample Web Service I created here is exactly a SOAP web service:
>>
>> http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx
>>
>> You can find comments on its interface in P.S. of this message. And you
> can
>> consume this web service using sample code I provided in my previous
>> postings within this thread. (All the C# code for this Web Service
> including
>> comments is about 270+ code lines long - and that's all you have to write
> -
>> no need to code manually .wsdl etc. )
>>
>> Some of my experience with Web Services:
>>
>> 1) One of my overseas customers (WA) did use web service running on my
>> hosting site (Moscow, Russia, and it runs within common application pool)
>> for several months. And this web service was queried dozen times within a
>> second from his programs running on 5+ computers from his LAN there.
> Result:
>> no any major trouble at all.
>>
>> 2) Another customer does use web service developed here to synchronize
>> two-way "field-force automation" local MS SQL Express databases with
> central
>> MS SQL database running behind large ASP.NET application. No problem.
>>
>> Etc.
>>
>> Recap: Stop reading "junk comments", start acting.
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> --
>> Shamil
>>
>> P.S. Sample web service interface (Note: this sample web service was made
> in
>> one go, without any "heavy load" on brain cells, within a couple of hours
>> including several times of (XCOPY) deployment on ASP.NET hosting site,
>> testing etc. - I mean with some more work it can be done 100%
> "bullet-proof"
>> but even now it should be strong enough - you can test it):
>>
>> /// <summary>
>> /// Test method - Hello, World!
>> /// </summary>
>> /// <returns>String 'Hello MS Access World!'</returns>
>> [WebMethod]
>> public string HelloWorld()
>>
>> /// <summary>
>> /// Stores given file in Web service memory
>> /// </summary>
>> /// <param name="fileName">File name</param>
>> /// <param name="fileText">File text</param>
>> /// <returns>Stored file length if file stored successfully,
>> /// otherwise throws ApplicationException </returns>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter is null or
>> empty</exception>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileText parameter is null or
>> empty</exception>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter's value
> length
>> exceeds 255 chars</exception>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileText parameter's value
> length
>> exceeds 100KB chars</exception>
>> /// <remarks>
>> /// If the total length of stored files exceed 3MB then web service
> deletes
>> /// stored files until there will be enough space to store a new file.
>> /// </remarks> 
>> [WebMethod]
>> public int StoreFile(string fileName, string fileText)
>>
>> /// <summary>
>> /// Gets stored on web service side file
>> /// </summary>
>> /// <param name="fileName">File name</param>
>> /// <returns>Stored file text if file retrieved successfully,
>> /// otherwise throws ApplicationException </returns>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter is null or
>> empty</exception>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter's value
> length
>> exceeds 255 chars</exception>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">{fileName} - file not
>> found</exception>
>> [WebMethod]
>> public string GetFile(string fileName)
>>
>> /// <summary>
>> /// Delets stored on web service side file
>> /// </summary>
>> /// <param name="fileName">File name</param>
>> /// <returns>True if file deleted successfully,
>> /// otherwise throws ApplicationException </returns>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter is null or
>> empty</exception>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter's value
> length
>> exceeds 255 chars</exception>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">{fileName} - file not
>> found</exception>
>> [WebMethod]
>> public bool DeleteFile(string fileName)
>>
>> /// <summary>
>> /// Gets Web Service usage statistics
>> /// </summary>
>> /// <returns></returns>
>> [WebMethod] 
>> public string GetWebServiceUsageStatistics()
>>
>> /// <summary>
>> /// Gets 'Lorem Ipsum...' text
>> /// </summary>
>> /// <param name="amount">Speficies amount of <paramref name="what"
>> parameter/></param>
>> /// <param name="what">Defines generation units: words, paras, bytes,
>> lists</param>
>> /// <returns></returns>
>> [WebMethod] 
>> public string GetLoremIpsumText(long amount, string what)
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
>> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 5:21 AM
>> To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
>> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
>>
>> http://www.hanselman.com/blog/BreakingAllTheRulesWithWCF.aspx
>>
>> Read all the comments at the bottom.
>>
>> John W. Colby
>> www.ColbyConsulting.com
>>
>> <<< snip>>>
>>  
>>
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>>  
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> dba-VB mailing list
>> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
>> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 
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signature
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From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Sun Aug 30 14:34:13 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 23:34:13 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Posted web service test sample at
	northwind.codeplex.com
In-Reply-To: <004001ca29a2$1e6e5b30$5b4b1190$@spb.ru>
References: <004001ca29a2$1e6e5b30$5b4b1190$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <004601ca29a8$dbf17740$93d465c0$@spb.ru>

Hi All,

I have to post a note on stats reported by test code:

--
Test cycle started at 30.08.2009 23:24:52, cycles left = 1340
Elapsed Time = 2,49 seconds for 20 calls (0,1245s/call, fileSize = 30410)

Total Elapsed Time In Seconds = 479,88
Total Web Service Calls = 2220,00
Total Files' Bytes Transferred = 17243880,00
Avg.ThroughOutput = 35933,81 bytes/s
--

First line reports starting time of the current test cycle, which consists
of 20 calls to Web Service: 10 "StoreFile" calls and 10 "GetFile" calls,
every call transfers to the Web Service/retrieves 30410 bytes (not counting
"SOAP" envelopes' bytes)

Second line reports the stats for completed current cycle.

Third till sixth lines report overall stats for all the calls (from all the
PCs anywhere test will run) to the web service since this web service was
released.

There could be errors in the code/stats calculation - please post your
remarks if you'll find some.

Thank you.

--
Shamil


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil
Salakhetdinov
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 10:46 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: [dba-VB] Posted web service test sample at northwind.codeplex.com

Hi All,

 

FYI: I have posted web service test sample at northwind.codeplex.com

 

http://northwind.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=26600#D
ownloadId=81254 

 

More information on this test is posted in another posting here, which waits
moderators approval as its message body is too big: 23418 bytes with a limit
of 20 KB.

 

Thank you.

 

--

Shamil

_______________________________________________
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From Gustav at cactus.dk  Sun Aug 30 16:24:42 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 23:24:42 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
Message-ID: <sa9b0a54.021@cactus.dk>

Hi John

I'll have to second Shamil. When I joined an early presentation of Windows Communication Foundation it was the first time I began understanding what web services are about - all other info had been bits and pieces, some working but none with the big picture. WCF is so well thought out that you can say "this time MS got it right".

Also note, that the guy at the blog is not having an issue with WCF but states that "I still need to get the WCF client to talk to this unusual endpoint".
Unfortunately, this is an example of how blogs can be a total waste of time. This guy obviously knows what he talks about but - like Shamil - I browsed the comments (before reading Shamil's message here on the same) only to find them talking in East and West with no useful or educating info except one - the same that Shamil has quoted previously.

For any other project than your current very simple one I would happily go with WCF.

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 30-08-2009 20:13 >>>
Hi John,

OK.

<<<
What I found daunting was the gobbledegook of terms and technologies being
discussed.
>>>
John, if I'd tell you - do not bother about this "gobbledegook" now would
you accept my advice?
I mean you do not need to know all that stuff until you'll really need it -
you can just start developing and releasing SOAP Web Services - it's not
that complicated. 

I do share Ben Kloosterman's opinion: "The problem is not with WCF (or Axis)
(or SOAP) but with people who choose overly complicated scenarios"...

I called comments "junk" because most of them are not constructive, and they
do not help, even disturb beginner .NET developers to start developing and
releasing Web Services - they disturb by creating wrong impression that
developing Web Services using MS software is a very complicated task. And it
isn't.

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 7:21 PM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet

Shamil,

I understand that only people who have problems write comments about the problems they have.  I also 
understand that if someone uses VS.Net to write both ends of the channel then the probability of 
problems drops dramatically.

I would not characterize such comments a "junk" however, I believe that such problems are very real, 
particularly when you are dealing with disparate technologies on either end. The article itself was 
found in the C# start page, and he was having problems using .Net to try to talk to a service 
created in some other technology (from the little I actually understood).

What I found daunting was the gobbledegook of terms and technologies being discussed.  It certainly 
appeared to me that the majority of these "junk" comments were .Net developers trying to use .Net to 
subscribe (if that is the correct phrase) to services that were created in some other technology. 
Who had to do so for business reasons, in their work.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com 


Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote:
> Hi John,
> 
> I did read comments from the ref you quoted here - they are a usual "junk"
-
> I mean real developers who use MS software do not waste time on writing
> comments how bad this MS software is :) I can assure you (as many other
> developers here) it's not that bad as you can find reading all that "junk
> comments".
> 
> BTW, I liked this comment, which I classify as very helpful, and coming
from
> experienced developer (as I also am BTW :)O:
> 
> <<<<<<<<<<
> Ben Kloosterman, 21 June 2009, 20:38:34 (Pacific Standard Time, UTC-08:00)
> 
> The problem is not with WCF (or Axis) but with people who choose overly
> complicated scenarios. WCF is far superior to Axis though because Services
> framework allow things people use them. 
> 
> eg 
> - Security 95% of the time no transport security/encryption is sufficient.
> - Use custom headers dont fudge it like the article , this method is very
> common .
> - Use complicated types , inheritcance , interfaces , collections etc ..
> KISS and use the DTO pattern. ( DOnt pollute your business domain with the
> need to tranport it)
> 
> The big advantage REST has is you cant do the fancy things but everything
> you can do with REST you can do with WCF and keep it or even more simple. 
> 
> Ben
> 
> And BTW, my current proposal is to use SOAP (ASP.NET 2.0) Web Services for
> starters - they are easier to start with = you can create such Web
Services
> within VS2008. Later on you can convert them to WCF/REST web services -
> you'll just need to change interface/fa?ade in most of the cases.
> 
> And a sample Web Service I created here is exactly a SOAP web service:
> 
> http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx 
> 
> You can find comments on its interface in P.S. of this message. And you
can
> consume this web service using sample code I provided in my previous
> postings within this thread. (All the C# code for this Web Service
including
> comments is about 270+ code lines long - and that's all you have to write
-
> no need to code manually .wsdl etc. )
> 
> Some of my experience with Web Services:
> 
> 1) One of my overseas customers (WA) did use web service running on my
> hosting site (Moscow, Russia, and it runs within common application pool)
> for several months. And this web service was queried dozen times within a
> second from his programs running on 5+ computers from his LAN there.
Result:
> no any major trouble at all.
> 
> 2) Another customer does use web service developed here to synchronize
> two-way "field-force automation" local MS SQL Express databases with
central
> MS SQL database running behind large ASP.NET application. No problem.
> 
> Etc.
> 
> Recap: Stop reading "junk comments", start acting.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> --
> Shamil




From dbdoug at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 16:47:35 2009
From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 14:47:35 -0700
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <sa9b0a54.021@cactus.dk>
References: <sa9b0a54.021@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <4dd71a0c0908301447s1c1fc75cw1eac8e9761f2a50@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Gustav (and Shamil)

I've been following this discussion with some interest.  My impression of
web services is that they are basically for publishing information (like a
parts catalogue) which could be read and used by clients.  I gather that
this is not the whole picture.

I've spent several hours on the web recently trying to get more information;
however I have yet to stumble on a site which gives a clear explanation
and/or some practical examples.  Do you have any good references?

Thanks,

Doug Steele

On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 2:24 PM, Gustav Brock <Gustav at cactus.dk> wrote:

> Hi John
>
> I'll have to second Shamil. When I joined an early presentation of Windows
> Communication Foundation it was the first time I began understanding what
> web services are about - all other info had been bits and pieces, some
> working but none with the big picture. WCF is so well thought out that you
> can say "this time MS got it right".
>
>
>


From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Sun Aug 30 16:59:54 2009
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 07:59:54 +1000
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <4A9ACA3D.3040206@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>,
	<003a01ca299d$8d97caa0$a8c75fe0$@spb.ru>,
	<4A9ACA3D.3040206@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <4A9AF65A.10563.18F51086@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

WCF, SOAP, Web Services etc are necessary if you are exposing services to all and 
sundry on the web.

There are far simpler ways to exchange data when you have control of both the client and 
the server. These other methods do not require you to set up a web server and publish a 
schema which then opens up your data to the whole world.  Take a look at a simple TCPIP 
client/server solution first.  Here's a simple one in VB .Net 

http://www.eggheadcafe.com/articles/20020323.asp

This could be easily modified to do the sort of thing you are after, with the Listener 
application doing most of the work.

-- 
Stuart

On 30 Aug 2009 at 14:51, jwcolby wrote:

> Shamil,
> 
> I understand and mostly agree with your opinions.  Of course I will accept your advice, start small, 
> and not worry about the gobbledygook..
> 
>  > I do share Ben Kloosterman's opinion: "The problem is not with WCF (or Axis) (or SOAP) but with 
> people who choose overly complicated scenarios"...
> 
> I have to smile because you are recommending soap web services, to someone just coming up to speed 
> on C# (taking a beginners class!) to replace a dead simple to implement software VPN and a shared 
> directory!
> 
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com
> 
> 
> Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote:
> > Hi John,
> > 
> > OK.
> > 
> > <<<
> > What I found daunting was the gobbledegook of terms and technologies being
> > discussed.
> > John, if I'd tell you - do not bother about this "gobbledegook" now would
> > you accept my advice?
> > I mean you do not need to know all that stuff until you'll really need it -
> > you can just start developing and releasing SOAP Web Services - it's not
> > that complicated. 
> > 
> > I do share Ben Kloosterman's opinion: "The problem is not with WCF (or Axis)
> > (or SOAP) but with people who choose overly complicated scenarios"...
> > 
> > I called comments "junk" because most of them are not constructive, and they
> > do not help, even disturb beginner .NET developers to start developing and
> > releasing Web Services - they disturb by creating wrong impression that
> > developing Web Services using MS software is a very complicated task. And it
> > isn't.
> > 
> > Thank you.
> > 
> > --
> > Shamil
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
> > Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 7:21 PM
> > To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
> > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
> > 
> > Shamil,
> > 
> > I understand that only people who have problems write comments about the
> > problems they have.  I also 
> > understand that if someone uses VS.Net to write both ends of the channel
> > then the probability of 
> > problems drops dramatically.
> > 
> > I would not characterize such comments a "junk" however, I believe that such
> > problems are very real, 
> > particularly when you are dealing with disparate technologies on either end.
> > The article itself was 
> > found in the C# start page, and he was having problems using .Net to try to
> > talk to a service 
> > created in some other technology (from the little I actually understood).
> > 
> > What I found daunting was the gobbledegook of terms and technologies being
> > discussed.  It certainly 
> > appeared to me that the majority of these "junk" comments were .Net
> > developers trying to use .Net to 
> > subscribe (if that is the correct phrase) to services that were created in
> > some other technology. 
> > Who had to do so for business reasons, in their work.
> > 
> > John W. Colby
> > www.ColbyConsulting.com
> > 
> > 
> > Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote:
> >> Hi John,
> >>
> >> I did read comments from the ref you quoted here - they are a usual "junk"
> > -
> >> I mean real developers who use MS software do not waste time on writing
> >> comments how bad this MS software is :) I can assure you (as many other
> >> developers here) it's not that bad as you can find reading all that "junk
> >> comments".
> >>
> >> BTW, I liked this comment, which I classify as very helpful, and coming
> > from
> >> experienced developer (as I also am BTW :)O:
> >>
> >> <<<<<<<<<<
> >> Ben Kloosterman, 21 June 2009, 20:38:34 (Pacific Standard Time, UTC-08:00)
> >>
> >> The problem is not with WCF (or Axis) but with people who choose overly
> >> complicated scenarios. WCF is far superior to Axis though because Services
> >> framework allow things people use them. 
> >>
> >> eg 
> >> - Security 95% of the time no transport security/encryption is sufficient.
> >> - Use custom headers dont fudge it like the article , this method is very
> >> common .
> >> - Use complicated types , inheritcance , interfaces , collections etc ..
> >> KISS and use the DTO pattern. ( DOnt pollute your business domain with the
> >> need to tranport it)
> >>
> >> The big advantage REST has is you cant do the fancy things but everything
> >> you can do with REST you can do with WCF and keep it or even more simple. 
> >>
> >> Ben
> >>
> >> And BTW, my current proposal is to use SOAP (ASP.NET 2.0) Web Services for
> >> starters - they are easier to start with = you can create such Web
> > Services
> >> within VS2008. Later on you can convert them to WCF/REST web services -
> >> you'll just need to change interface/fa?ade in most of the cases.
> >>
> >> And a sample Web Service I created here is exactly a SOAP web service:
> >>
> >> http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx
> >>
> >> You can find comments on its interface in P.S. of this message. And you
> > can
> >> consume this web service using sample code I provided in my previous
> >> postings within this thread. (All the C# code for this Web Service
> > including
> >> comments is about 270+ code lines long - and that's all you have to write
> > -
> >> no need to code manually .wsdl etc. )
> >>
> >> Some of my experience with Web Services:
> >>
> >> 1) One of my overseas customers (WA) did use web service running on my
> >> hosting site (Moscow, Russia, and it runs within common application pool)
> >> for several months. And this web service was queried dozen times within a
> >> second from his programs running on 5+ computers from his LAN there.
> > Result:
> >> no any major trouble at all.
> >>
> >> 2) Another customer does use web service developed here to synchronize
> >> two-way "field-force automation" local MS SQL Express databases with
> > central
> >> MS SQL database running behind large ASP.NET application. No problem.
> >>
> >> Etc.
> >>
> >> Recap: Stop reading "junk comments", start acting.
> >>
> >> Thank you.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Shamil
> >>
> >> P.S. Sample web service interface (Note: this sample web service was made
> > in
> >> one go, without any "heavy load" on brain cells, within a couple of hours
> >> including several times of (XCOPY) deployment on ASP.NET hosting site,
> >> testing etc. - I mean with some more work it can be done 100%
> > "bullet-proof"
> >> but even now it should be strong enough - you can test it):
> >>
> >> /// <summary>
> >> /// Test method - Hello, World!
> >> /// </summary>
> >> /// <returns>String 'Hello MS Access World!'</returns>
> >> [WebMethod]
> >> public string HelloWorld()
> >>
> >> /// <summary>
> >> /// Stores given file in Web service memory
> >> /// </summary>
> >> /// <param name="fileName">File name</param>
> >> /// <param name="fileText">File text</param>
> >> /// <returns>Stored file length if file stored successfully,
> >> /// otherwise throws ApplicationException </returns>
> >> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter is null or
> >> empty</exception>
> >> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileText parameter is null or
> >> empty</exception>
> >> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter's value
> > length
> >> exceeds 255 chars</exception>
> >> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileText parameter's value
> > length
> >> exceeds 100KB chars</exception>
> >> /// <remarks>
> >> /// If the total length of stored files exceed 3MB then web service
> > deletes
> >> /// stored files until there will be enough space to store a new file.
> >> /// </remarks> 
> >> [WebMethod]
> >> public int StoreFile(string fileName, string fileText)
> >>
> >> /// <summary>
> >> /// Gets stored on web service side file
> >> /// </summary>
> >> /// <param name="fileName">File name</param>
> >> /// <returns>Stored file text if file retrieved successfully,
> >> /// otherwise throws ApplicationException </returns>
> >> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter is null or
> >> empty</exception>
> >> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter's value
> > length
> >> exceeds 255 chars</exception>
> >> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">{fileName} - file not
> >> found</exception>
> >> [WebMethod]
> >> public string GetFile(string fileName)
> >>
> >> /// <summary>
> >> /// Delets stored on web service side file
> >> /// </summary>
> >> /// <param name="fileName">File name</param>
> >> /// <returns>True if file deleted successfully,
> >> /// otherwise throws ApplicationException </returns>
> >> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter is null or
> >> empty</exception>
> >> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter's value
> > length
> >> exceeds 255 chars</exception>
> >> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">{fileName} - file not
> >> found</exception>
> >> [WebMethod]
> >> public bool DeleteFile(string fileName)
> >>
> >> /// <summary>
> >> /// Gets Web Service usage statistics
> >> /// </summary>
> >> /// <returns></returns>
> >> [WebMethod] 
> >> public string GetWebServiceUsageStatistics()
> >>
> >> /// <summary>
> >> /// Gets 'Lorem Ipsum...' text
> >> /// </summary>
> >> /// <param name="amount">Speficies amount of <paramref name="what"
> >> parameter/></param>
> >> /// <param name="what">Defines generation units: words, paras, bytes,
> >> lists</param>
> >> /// <returns></returns>
> >> [WebMethod] 
> >> public string GetLoremIpsumText(long amount, string what)
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> >> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
> >> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 5:21 AM
> >> To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
> >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
> >>
> >> http://www.hanselman.com/blog/BreakingAllTheRulesWithWCF.aspx
> >>
> >> Read all the comments at the bottom.
> >>
> >> John W. Colby
> >> www.ColbyConsulting.com
> >>
> >> <<< snip>>>
> >>  
> >>
> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
> > signature
> >> database 4380 (20090829) __________
> >>
> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
> >>
> >> http://www.esetnod32.ru
> >>  
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> dba-VB mailing list
> >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >>
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > dba-VB mailing list
> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > 
> > 
> > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
> > database 4381 (20090830) __________
> > 
> > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
> > 
> > http://www.esetnod32.ru
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > dba-VB mailing list
> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > 
> > 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 





From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Sun Aug 30 17:07:23 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 18:07:23 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] SPAM-LOW:  Re:  Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <sa9b0a54.021@cactus.dk>
References: <sa9b0a54.021@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <4A9AF81B.7000906@colbyconsulting.com>

Gustav,

 > For any other project than your current very simple one I would happily go with WCF.

And in fact I am rewriting this very simple project into C#, more as an exercise in doing so and 
making a commitment to a real live in-use app than because it absolutely requires a rewrite.

Having done so, and having the (small) time in the trenches getting it running etc., then using a 
web service may in fact make sense even for this very simple project.

This client has a bunch more stuff that he wants to be doing.  This current project (in Access) is 
his baby but it is only the start.  I have convinced him that I know what I am doing (in general 
terms, and in Access) and he is making plans for us doing the future.  The future will involve more 
of the same kind of stuff so having a standardized file transfer thing going would be a good very 
thing.

We are looking at doing an application for sale.  For that I believe that having it in C# could be a 
plus for a couple of reasons - the power of the .Net environment as well as the public perception of 
C# vs Access.  It is in preparation for that future that I am doing the rewrite of this first piece 
(and taking the class).  I need the practice!

 >I browsed the comments (before reading Shamil's message here on the same) only to find them 
talking in East and West with no useful or educating info except one - the same that Shamil has 
quoted previously.

I hear you, and I still find these kinds of comments useful for what they are - bitches about the 
pain of what is supposed to be a standard not being a standard.  Please do not take my comment as in 
any way "defending" whatever they are saying, simply that each such comment represents a truth for 
an individual out there somewhere.  Obviously they are not offering advice or solutions, simply 
irritated comments about the reality that they are exposed to.  OTOH that reality is .Net banging 
against another platform, not .Net banging against .Net.

In the same way, I read the all comments, including negative comments about anything I am 
researching to buy on Amazon.com or Newegg.com etc.  Things don't always work the way they are 
supposed to and it is useful to hear the negatives.

These comments were in response to a "it was a PITA" blog, so naturally they are going to chime in 
with their own PITA experiences and the general tone is down.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi John
> 
> I'll have to second Shamil. When I joined an early presentation of Windows Communication Foundation it was the first time I began understanding what web services are about - all other info had been bits and pieces, some working but none with the big picture. WCF is so well thought out that you can say "this time MS got it right".
> 
> Also note, that the guy at the blog is not having an issue with WCF but states that "I still need to get the WCF client to talk to this unusual endpoint".
> Unfortunately, this is an example of how blogs can be a total waste of time. This guy obviously knows what he talks about but - like Shamil - I browsed the comments (before reading Shamil's message here on the same) only to find them talking in East and West with no useful or educating info except one - the same that Shamil has quoted previously.
> 
> For any other project than your current very simple one I would happily go with WCF.
> 
> /gustav



From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Sun Aug 30 17:18:36 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 18:18:36 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] SPAM-LOW:  Re:  Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <4A9AF65A.10563.18F51086@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>,
	<003a01ca299d$8d97caa0$a8c75fe0$@spb.ru>,
	<4A9ACA3D.3040206@colbyconsulting.com>
	<4A9AF65A.10563.18F51086@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
Message-ID: <4A9AFABC.9000101@colbyconsulting.com>

Thanks Stuart.

I believe one of the implications of the service route was that the whole TCP/IP address / port 
thing goes away, IOW it can get through a firewall without having to get the intervention of IT.

I am listening to all points of view.  Luckily I am in no hurry here, it will be six months or more 
before I need to solve this problem, or even have the requisite knowledge.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Stuart McLachlan wrote:
> WCF, SOAP, Web Services etc are necessary if you are exposing services to all and 
> sundry on the web.
> 
> There are far simpler ways to exchange data when you have control of both the client and 
> the server. These other methods do not require you to set up a web server and publish a 
> schema which then opens up your data to the whole world.  Take a look at a simple TCPIP 
> client/server solution first.  Here's a simple one in VB .Net 
> 
> http://www.eggheadcafe.com/articles/20020323.asp
> 
> This could be easily modified to do the sort of thing you are after, with the Listener 
> application doing most of the work.
> 


From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Sun Aug 30 17:47:09 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 18:47:09 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] SPAM-LOW:  Re:  Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <sa9b0a54.021@cactus.dk>
References: <sa9b0a54.021@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <4A9B016D.7000709@colbyconsulting.com>

OK, I have a couple of books on the way on WCF.  Looks like light reading!

;)

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi John
> 
> I'll have to second Shamil. When I joined an early presentation of Windows Communication Foundation it was the first time I began understanding what web services are about - all other info had been bits and pieces, some working but none with the big picture. WCF is so well thought out that you can say "this time MS got it right".
> 
> Also note, that the guy at the blog is not having an issue with WCF but states that "I still need to get the WCF client to talk to this unusual endpoint".
> Unfortunately, this is an example of how blogs can be a total waste of time. This guy obviously knows what he talks about but - like Shamil - I browsed the comments (before reading Shamil's message here on the same) only to find them talking in East and West with no useful or educating info except one - the same that Shamil has quoted previously.
> 
> For any other project than your current very simple one I would happily go with WCF.
> 
> /gustav
> 
> 
>>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 30-08-2009 20:13 >>>
> Hi John,
> 
> OK.
> 
> <<<
> What I found daunting was the gobbledegook of terms and technologies being
> discussed.
> John, if I'd tell you - do not bother about this "gobbledegook" now would
> you accept my advice?
> I mean you do not need to know all that stuff until you'll really need it -
> you can just start developing and releasing SOAP Web Services - it's not
> that complicated. 
> 
> I do share Ben Kloosterman's opinion: "The problem is not with WCF (or Axis)
> (or SOAP) but with people who choose overly complicated scenarios"...
> 
> I called comments "junk" because most of them are not constructive, and they
> do not help, even disturb beginner .NET developers to start developing and
> releasing Web Services - they disturb by creating wrong impression that
> developing Web Services using MS software is a very complicated task. And it
> isn't.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> --
> Shamil
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 7:21 PM
> To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
> 
> Shamil,
> 
> I understand that only people who have problems write comments about the problems they have.  I also 
> understand that if someone uses VS.Net to write both ends of the channel then the probability of 
> problems drops dramatically.
> 
> I would not characterize such comments a "junk" however, I believe that such problems are very real, 
> particularly when you are dealing with disparate technologies on either end. The article itself was 
> found in the C# start page, and he was having problems using .Net to try to talk to a service 
> created in some other technology (from the little I actually understood).
> 
> What I found daunting was the gobbledegook of terms and technologies being discussed.  It certainly 
> appeared to me that the majority of these "junk" comments were .Net developers trying to use .Net to 
> subscribe (if that is the correct phrase) to services that were created in some other technology. 
> Who had to do so for business reasons, in their work.
> 
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com 
> 
> 
> Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote:
>> Hi John,
>>
>> I did read comments from the ref you quoted here - they are a usual "junk"
> -
>> I mean real developers who use MS software do not waste time on writing
>> comments how bad this MS software is :) I can assure you (as many other
>> developers here) it's not that bad as you can find reading all that "junk
>> comments".
>>
>> BTW, I liked this comment, which I classify as very helpful, and coming
> from
>> experienced developer (as I also am BTW :)O:
>>
>> <<<<<<<<<<
>> Ben Kloosterman, 21 June 2009, 20:38:34 (Pacific Standard Time, UTC-08:00)
>>
>> The problem is not with WCF (or Axis) but with people who choose overly
>> complicated scenarios. WCF is far superior to Axis though because Services
>> framework allow things people use them. 
>>
>> eg 
>> - Security 95% of the time no transport security/encryption is sufficient.
>> - Use custom headers dont fudge it like the article , this method is very
>> common .
>> - Use complicated types , inheritcance , interfaces , collections etc ..
>> KISS and use the DTO pattern. ( DOnt pollute your business domain with the
>> need to tranport it)
>>
>> The big advantage REST has is you cant do the fancy things but everything
>> you can do with REST you can do with WCF and keep it or even more simple. 
>>
>> Ben
>>
>> And BTW, my current proposal is to use SOAP (ASP.NET 2.0) Web Services for
>> starters - they are easier to start with = you can create such Web
> Services
>> within VS2008. Later on you can convert them to WCF/REST web services -
>> you'll just need to change interface/fa?ade in most of the cases.
>>
>> And a sample Web Service I created here is exactly a SOAP web service:
>>
>> http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx 
>>
>> You can find comments on its interface in P.S. of this message. And you
> can
>> consume this web service using sample code I provided in my previous
>> postings within this thread. (All the C# code for this Web Service
> including
>> comments is about 270+ code lines long - and that's all you have to write
> -
>> no need to code manually .wsdl etc. )
>>
>> Some of my experience with Web Services:
>>
>> 1) One of my overseas customers (WA) did use web service running on my
>> hosting site (Moscow, Russia, and it runs within common application pool)
>> for several months. And this web service was queried dozen times within a
>> second from his programs running on 5+ computers from his LAN there.
> Result:
>> no any major trouble at all.
>>
>> 2) Another customer does use web service developed here to synchronize
>> two-way "field-force automation" local MS SQL Express databases with
> central
>> MS SQL database running behind large ASP.NET application. No problem.
>>
>> Etc.
>>
>> Recap: Stop reading "junk comments", start acting.
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> --
>> Shamil
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 


From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Sun Aug 30 18:30:02 2009
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 09:30:02 +1000
Subject: [dba-VB] SPAM-LOW:  Re:  Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <4A9AFABC.9000101@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>,
	<4A9AF65A.10563.18F51086@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>,
	<4A9AFABC.9000101@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <4A9B0B7A.29443.1947931F@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

The only reason it "goes away" is because web services use the standard HTTP port 80 
which is open by default on most routers.   That means there is no configuration needed on 
the client machines.  

But you will still need "IT" to configure the router and set up port forwarding to point to the 
server hosting the web service.  Of course, this is not an issue where you set up a web 
service on a public web server, but that is not what you are trying to do - you want 
something hosted internally which can access your internal file systems and databases and 
interface in a controlled manner with other machines.

There's nothing to stop you from using the same port 80 for your own TCP/IP Listener 
application. 

You can also any of the other "standard" ports which are likely to be open on a router such 
as FTP (21), SMTP(25),  POP3(110) etc

I have a couple of such Listener applications which do the sort of things you are after, but 
they are written in PB/Win - if you want to look at them to get a better idea of oterh way you 
can do this, I will send the source to you off line.


-- 
Stuart



On 30 Aug 2009 at 18:18, jwcolby wrote:

> Thanks Stuart.
> 
> I believe one of the implications of the service route was that the whole TCP/IP address / port 
> thing goes away, IOW it can get through a firewall without having to get the intervention of IT.
> 
> I am listening to all points of view.  Luckily I am in no hurry here, it will be six months or more 
> before I need to solve this problem, or even have the requisite knowledge.
> 
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com
> 
> 
> Stuart McLachlan wrote:
> > WCF, SOAP, Web Services etc are necessary if you are exposing services to all and 
> > sundry on the web.
> > 
> > There are far simpler ways to exchange data when you have control of both the client and 
> > the server. These other methods do not require you to set up a web server and publish a 
> > schema which then opens up your data to the whole world.  Take a look at a simple TCPIP 
> > client/server solution first.  Here's a simple one in VB .Net 
> > 
> > http://www.eggheadcafe.com/articles/20020323.asp
> > 
> > This could be easily modified to do the sort of thing you are after, with the Listener 
> > application doing most of the work.
> > 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 




From ebarro at verizon.net  Sun Aug 30 23:25:00 2009
From: ebarro at verizon.net (Eric Barro)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 21:25:00 -0700
Subject: [dba-VB] SPAM-LOW:  Re:  Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <4A9B0B7A.29443.1947931F@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>,
	<4A9AF65A.10563.18F51086@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>,
	<4A9AFABC.9000101@colbyconsulting.com>
	<4A9B0B7A.29443.1947931F@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
Message-ID: <83793773C208434D94153FDCDEAC4BB8@advancedinput.com>

Didn't the original spec indicate that the CSV file would be dropped into a
web location where the client machines could pick them up?

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 4:30 PM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SPAM-LOW: Re: Access data across the internet

The only reason it "goes away" is because web services use the standard HTTP
port 80 
which is open by default on most routers.   That means there is no
configuration needed on 
the client machines.  

But you will still need "IT" to configure the router and set up port
forwarding to point to the server hosting the web service.  Of course, this
is not an issue where you set up a web service on a public web server, but
that is not what you are trying to do - you want something hosted internally
which can access your internal file systems and databases and interface in a
controlled manner with other machines.

There's nothing to stop you from using the same port 80 for your own TCP/IP
Listener application. 

You can also any of the other "standard" ports which are likely to be open
on a router such as FTP (21), SMTP(25),  POP3(110) etc

I have a couple of such Listener applications which do the sort of things
you are after, but they are written in PB/Win - if you want to look at them
to get a better idea of oterh way you can do this, I will send the source to
you off line.


--
Stuart



On 30 Aug 2009 at 18:18, jwcolby wrote:

> Thanks Stuart.
> 
> I believe one of the implications of the service route was that the whole
TCP/IP address / port 
> thing goes away, IOW it can get through a firewall without having to get
the intervention of IT.
> 
> I am listening to all points of view.  Luckily I am in no hurry here, it
will be six months or more 
> before I need to solve this problem, or even have the requisite knowledge.
> 
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com
> 
> 
> Stuart McLachlan wrote:
> > WCF, SOAP, Web Services etc are necessary if you are exposing services
to all and 
> > sundry on the web.
> > 
> > There are far simpler ways to exchange data when you have control of
both the client and 
> > the server. These other methods do not require you to set up a web
server and publish a 
> > schema which then opens up your data to the whole world.  Take a look at
a simple TCPIP 
> > client/server solution first.  Here's a simple one in VB .Net 
> > 
> > http://www.eggheadcafe.com/articles/20020323.asp
> > 
> > This could be easily modified to do the sort of thing you are after,
with the Listener 
> > application doing most of the work.
> > 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 


_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Mon Aug 31 01:53:13 2009
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 16:53:13 +1000
Subject: [dba-VB] SPAM-LOW:  Re:  Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <83793773C208434D94153FDCDEAC4BB8@advancedinput.com>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>,
	<4A9B0B7A.29443.1947931F@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>,
	<83793773C208434D94153FDCDEAC4BB8@advancedinput.com>
Message-ID: <4A9B7359.15314.1ADD54A1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

No,

As I read it, John's original scenario was several client locations processing files locally with  
a shared directory structure in the main location. He was looking at ways to share the 
directory structure and move files to and from it over the internet. 

No web at all.

-- 
Stuart


On 30 Aug 2009 at 21:25, Eric Barro wrote:

> Didn't the original spec indicate that the CSV file would be dropped into a
> web location where the client machines could pick them up?
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan
> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 4:30 PM
> To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SPAM-LOW: Re: Access data across the internet
> 
> The only reason it "goes away" is because web services use the standard HTTP
> port 80 
> which is open by default on most routers.   That means there is no
> configuration needed on 
> the client machines.  
> 
> But you will still need "IT" to configure the router and set up port
> forwarding to point to the server hosting the web service.  Of course, this
> is not an issue where you set up a web service on a public web server, but
> that is not what you are trying to do - you want something hosted internally
> which can access your internal file systems and databases and interface in a
> controlled manner with other machines.
> 
> There's nothing to stop you from using the same port 80 for your own TCP/IP
> Listener application. 
> 
> You can also any of the other "standard" ports which are likely to be open
> on a router such as FTP (21), SMTP(25),  POP3(110) etc
> 
> I have a couple of such Listener applications which do the sort of things
> you are after, but they are written in PB/Win - if you want to look at them
> to get a better idea of oterh way you can do this, I will send the source to
> you off line.
> 
> 
> --
> Stuart
> 
> 
> 
> On 30 Aug 2009 at 18:18, jwcolby wrote:
> 
> > Thanks Stuart.
> > 
> > I believe one of the implications of the service route was that the whole
> TCP/IP address / port 
> > thing goes away, IOW it can get through a firewall without having to get
> the intervention of IT.
> > 
> > I am listening to all points of view.  Luckily I am in no hurry here, it
> will be six months or more 
> > before I need to solve this problem, or even have the requisite knowledge.
> > 
> > John W. Colby
> > www.ColbyConsulting.com
> > 
> > 
> > Stuart McLachlan wrote:
> > > WCF, SOAP, Web Services etc are necessary if you are exposing services
> to all and 
> > > sundry on the web.
> > > 
> > > There are far simpler ways to exchange data when you have control of
> both the client and 
> > > the server. These other methods do not require you to set up a web
> server and publish a 
> > > schema which then opens up your data to the whole world.  Take a look at
> a simple TCPIP 
> > > client/server solution first.  Here's a simple one in VB .Net 
> > > 
> > > http://www.eggheadcafe.com/articles/20020323.asp
> > > 
> > > This could be easily modified to do the sort of thing you are after,
> with the Listener 
> > > application doing most of the work.
> > > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > dba-VB mailing list
> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 




From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Mon Aug 31 04:57:19 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 13:57:19 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <4dd71a0c0908301447s1c1fc75cw1eac8e9761f2a50@mail.gmail.com>
References: <sa9b0a54.021@cactus.dk>
	<4dd71a0c0908301447s1c1fc75cw1eac8e9761f2a50@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <006801ca2a21$6ed969f0$4c8c3dd0$@spb.ru>

Hi Doug,

You can read about/investigate Amazon Web Services (AWS):

http://aws.amazon.com/

The fact is that many businesses are built using AWS, and the number of such
businesses is only growing day by day...

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 1:48 AM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
ubject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet

Hi Gustav (and Shamil)

I've been following this discussion with some interest.  My impression of
web services is that they are basically for publishing information (like a
parts catalogue) which could be read and used by clients.  I gather that
this is not the whole picture.

I've spent several hours on the web recently trying to get more information;
however I have yet to stumble on a site which gives a clear explanation
and/or some practical examples.  Do you have any good references?

Thanks,

Doug Steele

On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 2:24 PM, Gustav Brock <Gustav at cactus.dk> wrote:

> Hi John
>
> I'll have to second Shamil. When I joined an early presentation of Windows
> Communication Foundation it was the first time I began understanding what
> web services are about - all other info had been bits and pieces, some
> working but none with the big picture. WCF is so well thought out that you
> can say "this time MS got it right".
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
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From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Mon Aug 31 04:57:19 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 13:57:19 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] How to Consume a Web Service (Request for Help, not urgent)
Message-ID: <006901ca2a21$702c01a0$508404e0$@spb.ru>

Hi All,

 

I'd be very grateful if anybody could go through the following
sample/workthrough using VS2008 SP1

 

"How to Consume a Web Service"

http://johnwsaundersiii.spaces.live.com/?_c11_BlogPart_BlogPart=blogview&_c=
BlogPart&partqs=amonth%3d5%26ayear%3d2009

(watch line wraps)

 

and publish for download/send me privately the sources you'll get. I can't
get this sample working on my system (something is still wrong with my
system setup), and I wanted to compare your sources with the ones I'm
getting here to find out how to solve this "nightmarish" issue.

 

If all will work well it should take several minutes to make the sample
working on your system assuming you have VS2008 SP1 and Windows SDK
installed.

 

Please do not try to look for workarounds if the above sample will not work
out of the box as described - looking for such workaround can take hours and
hours  (and solution depends on your system (current) context/previous
setups I believe) - you'll risk to lose your working day.

 

Solution/workaround should be simple, effective and generic - I still can't
find it nor by myself nor by intensive Googling/Binging.

 

Thank you.

 

--

Shamil

 

 

 



From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Mon Aug 31 04:57:19 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 13:57:19 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] SPAM-LOW:  Re:  Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <4A9B016D.7000709@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <sa9b0a54.021@cactus.dk> <4A9B016D.7000709@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <006e01ca2a21$7177bb80$54673280$@spb.ru>

Hi John,

Still I'd advised you to start with SOAP services, which work out of the
box...

If you start with WCF Web Services I do hope/wish you were luckier than
hundreds (and hundreds) of folks "fighting" with infamous:

"WCF Service reference to IIS-hosted WCF nightmares"
http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/wcf/thread/0db19bc8-2bc4-4306-
a124-65b80849c0e3/ 

which doesn't have a common solution AFAIK. Have I missed it for VS2008 SP1?

The solution depends, I believe, on "proper" setup sequence of several
components of your system, BTW, don't forget to setup proper Windows SDK
(7.0), which is needed to develop WCF Web Services.

If the following sample/workthrough will work well for you out of the box

"How to Consume a Web Service"
http://johnwsaundersiii.spaces.live.com/?_c11_BlogPart_BlogPart=blogview&_c=
BlogPart&partqs=amonth%3d5%26ayear%3d2009

you'll be a lucky guy.

It doesn't yet work here on my development PC, and WCF per se works well - I
have programmed WCF-based inter-process communication programs, some other
WCF samples I have got ready to use also worked OK but creation from scratch
in VS2008 SP1 of very simple WCF web service (as in the referred above
sample) - it doesn't work here yet...

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 2:47 AM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SPAM-LOW: Re: Access data across the internet

OK, I have a couple of books on the way on WCF.  Looks like light reading!

;)

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi John
> 
> I'll have to second Shamil. When I joined an early presentation of Windows
Communication Foundation it was the first time I began understanding what
web services are about - all other info had been bits and pieces, some
working but none with the big picture. WCF is so well thought out that you
can say "this time MS got it right".
> 
> Also note, that the guy at the blog is not having an issue with WCF but
states that "I still need to get the WCF client to talk to this unusual
endpoint".
> Unfortunately, this is an example of how blogs can be a total waste of
time. This guy obviously knows what he talks about but - like Shamil - I
browsed the comments (before reading Shamil's message here on the same) only
to find them talking in East and West with no useful or educating info
except one - the same that Shamil has quoted previously.
> 
> For any other project than your current very simple one I would happily go
with WCF.
> 
> /gustav
> 
> 
>>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 30-08-2009 20:13 >>>
> Hi John,
> 
> OK.
> 
> <<<
> What I found daunting was the gobbledegook of terms and technologies being
> discussed.
> John, if I'd tell you - do not bother about this "gobbledegook" now would
> you accept my advice?
> I mean you do not need to know all that stuff until you'll really need it
-
> you can just start developing and releasing SOAP Web Services - it's not
> that complicated. 
> 
> I do share Ben Kloosterman's opinion: "The problem is not with WCF (or
Axis)
> (or SOAP) but with people who choose overly complicated scenarios"...
> 
> I called comments "junk" because most of them are not constructive, and
they
> do not help, even disturb beginner .NET developers to start developing and
> releasing Web Services - they disturb by creating wrong impression that
> developing Web Services using MS software is a very complicated task. And
it
> isn't.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> --
> Shamil
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 7:21 PM
> To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
> 
> Shamil,
> 
> I understand that only people who have problems write comments about the
problems they have.  I also 
> understand that if someone uses VS.Net to write both ends of the channel
then the probability of 
> problems drops dramatically.
> 
> I would not characterize such comments a "junk" however, I believe that
such problems are very real, 
> particularly when you are dealing with disparate technologies on either
end. The article itself was 
> found in the C# start page, and he was having problems using .Net to try
to talk to a service 
> created in some other technology (from the little I actually understood).
> 
> What I found daunting was the gobbledegook of terms and technologies being
discussed.  It certainly 
> appeared to me that the majority of these "junk" comments were .Net
developers trying to use .Net to 
> subscribe (if that is the correct phrase) to services that were created in
some other technology. 
> Who had to do so for business reasons, in their work.
> 
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com 
> 
> 
> Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote:
>> Hi John,
>>
>> I did read comments from the ref you quoted here - they are a usual
"junk"
> -
>> I mean real developers who use MS software do not waste time on writing
>> comments how bad this MS software is :) I can assure you (as many other
>> developers here) it's not that bad as you can find reading all that "junk
>> comments".
>>
>> BTW, I liked this comment, which I classify as very helpful, and coming
> from
>> experienced developer (as I also am BTW :)O:
>>
>> <<<<<<<<<<
>> Ben Kloosterman, 21 June 2009, 20:38:34 (Pacific Standard Time,
UTC-08:00)
>>
>> The problem is not with WCF (or Axis) but with people who choose overly
>> complicated scenarios. WCF is far superior to Axis though because
Services
>> framework allow things people use them. 
>>
>> eg 
>> - Security 95% of the time no transport security/encryption is
sufficient.
>> - Use custom headers dont fudge it like the article , this method is very
>> common .
>> - Use complicated types , inheritcance , interfaces , collections etc ..
>> KISS and use the DTO pattern. ( DOnt pollute your business domain with
the
>> need to tranport it)
>>
>> The big advantage REST has is you cant do the fancy things but everything
>> you can do with REST you can do with WCF and keep it or even more simple.

>>
>> Ben
>>
>> And BTW, my current proposal is to use SOAP (ASP.NET 2.0) Web Services
for
>> starters - they are easier to start with = you can create such Web
> Services
>> within VS2008. Later on you can convert them to WCF/REST web services -
>> you'll just need to change interface/fa?ade in most of the cases.
>>
>> And a sample Web Service I created here is exactly a SOAP web service:
>>
>> http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx 
>>
>> You can find comments on its interface in P.S. of this message. And you
> can
>> consume this web service using sample code I provided in my previous
>> postings within this thread. (All the C# code for this Web Service
> including
>> comments is about 270+ code lines long - and that's all you have to write
> -
>> no need to code manually .wsdl etc. )
>>
>> Some of my experience with Web Services:
>>
>> 1) One of my overseas customers (WA) did use web service running on my
>> hosting site (Moscow, Russia, and it runs within common application pool)
>> for several months. And this web service was queried dozen times within a
>> second from his programs running on 5+ computers from his LAN there.
> Result:
>> no any major trouble at all.
>>
>> 2) Another customer does use web service developed here to synchronize
>> two-way "field-force automation" local MS SQL Express databases with
> central
>> MS SQL database running behind large ASP.NET application. No problem.
>>
>> Etc.
>>
>> Recap: Stop reading "junk comments", start acting.
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> --
>> Shamil
> 
> 





From Gustav at cactus.dk  Mon Aug 31 07:05:23 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 14:05:23 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
Message-ID: <sa9bd8b7.033@cactus.dk>

Hi Stuart and John

Except that the main location could be placed in "the cloud":

http://www.jungledisk.com/desktop/how.aspx 

This service - which among other things mimics a drive letter - uses Amazon as the storage. 

The Amazon storage can, of course, be accessed directly, for example via the S3 service:

http://aws.amazon.com/s3/ 

Also: 
<quote>
LitS3 is a library written in C# that provides comprehensive and straightforward access to Amazon S3 for .NET developers. 
</quote>

http://code.google.com/p/lits3/ 

Fascinating tiny amount of code. Unfortunately I haven't had the time to play with even though we do have an Amazon account up and running.

/gustav


>>> "Stuart McLachlan" <stuart at lexacorp.com.pg> 31-08-2009 08:53 >>>
No,

As I read it, John's original scenario was several client locations processing files locally with  
a shared directory structure in the main location. He was looking at ways to share the 
directory structure and move files to and from it over the internet. 

No web at all.

-- 
Stuart


On 30 Aug 2009 at 21:25, Eric Barro wrote:

> Didn't the original spec indicate that the CSV file would be dropped into a
> web location where the client machines could pick them up?
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan
> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 4:30 PM
> To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SPAM-LOW: Re: Access data across the internet
> 
> The only reason it "goes away" is because web services use the standard HTTP port 80 
> which is open by default on most routers.   That means there is no configuration needed on 
> the client machines.  
> 
> But you will still need "IT" to configure the router and set up port
> forwarding to point to the server hosting the web service.  Of course, this
> is not an issue where you set up a web service on a public web server, but
> that is not what you are trying to do - you want something hosted internally
> which can access your internal file systems and databases and interface in a
> controlled manner with other machines.
> 
> There's nothing to stop you from using the same port 80 for your own TCP/IP
> Listener application. 
> 
> You can also any of the other "standard" ports which are likely to be open
> on a router such as FTP (21), SMTP(25),  POP3(110) etc
> 
> I have a couple of such Listener applications which do the sort of things
> you are after, but they are written in PB/Win - if you want to look at them
> to get a better idea of oterh way you can do this, I will send the source to
> you off line.
> 
> 
> --
> Stuart
> 
> 
> 
> On 30 Aug 2009 at 18:18, jwcolby wrote:
> 
> > Thanks Stuart.
> > 
> > I believe one of the implications of the service route was that the whole TCP/IP address / port 
> > thing goes away, IOW it can get through a firewall without having to get the intervention of IT.
> > 
> > I am listening to all points of view.  Luckily I am in no hurry here, it will be six months or more 
> > before I need to solve this problem, or even have the requisite knowledge.
> > 
> > John W. Colby
> > www.ColbyConsulting.com 




From Gustav at cactus.dk  Mon Aug 31 07:06:20 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 14:06:20 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
Message-ID: <sa9bd8f3.034@cactus.dk>

Hi Doug

If you ask for an example of a public service, an example is here - from the EU to provide validation of VAT registration of companies of the EU:

http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/vies/api/checkVatPort?wsdl

It is very simple as no user credentials are requested, thus it should work with most clients.

/gustav


>>> dbdoug at gmail.com 30-08-2009 23:47 >>>
Hi Gustav (and Shamil)

I've been following this discussion with some interest.  My impression of
web services is that they are basically for publishing information (like a
parts catalogue) which could be read and used by clients.  I gather that
this is not the whole picture.

I've spent several hours on the web recently trying to get more information;
however I have yet to stumble on a site which gives a clear explanation
and/or some practical examples.  Do you have any good references?

Thanks,

Doug Steele




From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Mon Aug 31 07:32:42 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 08:32:42 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] SPAM-LOW:  Re:  Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <83793773C208434D94153FDCDEAC4BB8@advancedinput.com>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>,
	<4A9AF65A.10563.18F51086@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>,
	<4A9AFABC.9000101@colbyconsulting.com>	<4A9B0B7A.29443.1947931F@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
	<83793773C208434D94153FDCDEAC4BB8@advancedinput.com>
Message-ID: <4A9BC2EA.5050005@colbyconsulting.com>

The system already exists and works.  What happens is that there are two scanners which are used to 
turn documents into tables using Omnipage.  Those CSV files are dropped into a well defined 
directory structure on a disk drive "somewhere".  ATM everything is done locally, inside of a 
network in a SOHO.

So right now... a user scans a document into Omnipage.  Inside of Omnipage she uses her mouse to 
surround (swipe) areas of the document that is data that is going into a table.  Omnipage then turns 
the swiped areas into a CSV file, which the user then stores to a specific location.  These are 
invoices which go into a state/program/subprogram kind of structure.

As soon as the document is on the hard disk as a csv, the application opens the CSV and loads it 
into a temp table which has a field1, field2, ... field12 format.  Each field maps to a named field 
in another table but at this level the field mapping is not done.

A processes occurs which attempts to fix OCR errors.  The scanner may decide that an l is a one or 
vice versa, a zero is an oh. Stuff like that.  So the user runs the process to fix OCR errors.  Once 
the OCR errors are fixed the application maps the field1 ... fields in the temp table into the 
correct fields in a destination table, and the user then looks at the data.  The end objective is to 
perform an analysis on an invoice looking for errors.  Big money involved, thousands or millions of 
dollars, and the invoices come from organizations who don't necessarily use high tech tools to 
generate the invoices, so lots of errors are found.

Once the analysis is done the application stores the data table back out to a specific location, in 
a fixed width US Government standard format.  Eventually the data is shipped back to the client.

This thing is dead simple for you and I as experienced developers.  A directory structure, an 
import, an OCR correction process, a set of mapping queries to move raw data to the invoice table. 
Once the user finishes the analysis, an export back out to a destination folder.

What is happening now is that the client wants to bring his daughters in as employees, but have them 
work from home.  He already has an employee in another state doing some "dispute resolution" work 
for him.  So he wants a central server in his home office where all the documents go.  His daughters 
will work on the application but need may need to access document CSV files that were scanned and 
are physically located in another state.  And of course dump the processed file back to a server in 
another state.

My solution to that need was to use Hamachi to set up a VPN network that everybody joins.  The 
server is on it, each remote user is on it.  The VPN network exposes a mapped directory, which is 
mapped to X:.  That X: now contains that directory structure where all files are stored.  So to the 
user, it appears that they have a local drive X: but that drive is actually a directory on a server 
several states away.

The application simply pulls the CSV files from the X: drive and writes the result files back to the 
X: drive.  The application already pulls documents from a mapped drive, now the drive just happens 
to map to a server in another state.  No change to the APP.

In order to test, I have already done this mapping the client's server as my X: drive, and also 
setting up a mapped folder on my server, remoting in and running the application where my shared 
drive is mapped to the X: drive on his system.  It definitely works.

The speed was not great (30 seconds for the biggest file) when working on files on the client's 
server, a PIII 500mhz 256m RAM Windows XP.

OTOH it was about 9 seconds when running the application on that remote server and pulling the data 
off of my server.

It was about 5 seconds running completely local on his end, so the trip over the internet "cost" 
about 4 seconds when talking to a modern server.

So we are discussing replacing a working application, a software VPN - Hamachi - and a mapped drive, 
with a web service that reads and writes files to a server.  The service would need to run on the 
server I assume, which means getting that server running IIS.  BTW the client purchased a new DELL 
box with XP installed to act as the server.  I would have to get IIS running, write the services to 
read and write files, and write something for the existing application to connect to the services to 
perform the reads and writes.  I assume that I would have to read the files to a local drive and 
then run the import as I do now (this is currently Access).  Write the files locally and then send 
them via the service back to the server.

Again, I am rewriting this application to C#.  In C# this whole thing might very well make sense, 
since I could just read the stream from the web service and place the results directly into a table. 
  Using the current Access App I would have to do some modifications to a working app to interface 
to the service.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Eric Barro wrote:
> Didn't the original spec indicate that the CSV file would be dropped into a
> web location where the client machines could pick them up?
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan
> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 4:30 PM
> To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SPAM-LOW: Re: Access data across the internet
> 
> The only reason it "goes away" is because web services use the standard HTTP
> port 80 
> which is open by default on most routers.   That means there is no
> configuration needed on 
> the client machines.  
> 
> But you will still need "IT" to configure the router and set up port
> forwarding to point to the server hosting the web service.  Of course, this
> is not an issue where you set up a web service on a public web server, but
> that is not what you are trying to do - you want something hosted internally
> which can access your internal file systems and databases and interface in a
> controlled manner with other machines.
> 
> There's nothing to stop you from using the same port 80 for your own TCP/IP
> Listener application. 
> 
> You can also any of the other "standard" ports which are likely to be open
> on a router such as FTP (21), SMTP(25),  POP3(110) etc
> 
> I have a couple of such Listener applications which do the sort of things
> you are after, but they are written in PB/Win - if you want to look at them
> to get a better idea of oterh way you can do this, I will send the source to
> you off line.
> 
> 
> --
> Stuart
> 
> 
> 
> On 30 Aug 2009 at 18:18, jwcolby wrote:
> 
>> Thanks Stuart.
>>
>> I believe one of the implications of the service route was that the whole
> TCP/IP address / port 
>> thing goes away, IOW it can get through a firewall without having to get
> the intervention of IT.
>> I am listening to all points of view.  Luckily I am in no hurry here, it
> will be six months or more 
>> before I need to solve this problem, or even have the requisite knowledge.
>>
>> John W. Colby
>> www.ColbyConsulting.com
>>
>>
>> Stuart McLachlan wrote:
>>> WCF, SOAP, Web Services etc are necessary if you are exposing services
> to all and 
>>> sundry on the web.
>>>
>>> There are far simpler ways to exchange data when you have control of
> both the client and 
>>> the server. These other methods do not require you to set up a web
> server and publish a 
>>> schema which then opens up your data to the whole world.  Take a look at
> a simple TCPIP 
>>> client/server solution first.  Here's a simple one in VB .Net 
>>>
>>> http://www.eggheadcafe.com/articles/20020323.asp
>>>
>>> This could be easily modified to do the sort of thing you are after,
> with the Listener 
>>> application doing most of the work.
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> dba-VB mailing list
>> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
>> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 


From Gustav at cactus.dk  Mon Aug 31 12:21:15 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 19:21:15 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet. Now: Look up EU	VAT
	No.
Message-ID: <sa9c22be.048@cactus.dk>

Hi Doug et al

I just tested this with the code referred to by Shamil:

"How to Consume a Web Service"

http://johnwsaundersiii.spaces.live.com/?_c11_BlogPart_BlogPart=blogview&_c=BlogPart&partqs=amonth%3d5%26ayear%3d2009

I created another service reference, ServiceEuViesCheckReference, and ran this code:

            using (var svc = new ServiceEuViesCheckReference.checkVatPortTypeClient())
            {
                string countryCode = "DK";
                string vatNumber = "12002696";
                bool valid = false;
                string name = String.Empty;
                string address = String.Empty;
                DateTime responseDate = svc.checkVat(
                    ref countryCode, ref vatNumber,
                    out valid, out name, out address);
                Console.WriteLine(responseDate.ToShortDateString());
                Console.WriteLine(valid.ToString());
                Console.WriteLine(name);
                Console.WriteLine(address);
                Console.Write("Press a key");
                Console.ReadLine();
            }

This returns correctly:

---
31-08-2009
True
CACTUS DATA APS
KALKBR?NDERIL?BSKAJ 4A

2100 K?BENHAVN ?
Press a key
---

This is fun!
Response time is about 1 second.

/gustav


>>> Gustav at cactus.dk 31-08-2009 14:06 >>>
Hi Doug

If you ask for an example of a public service, an example is here - from the EU to provide validation of VAT registration of companies of the EU:

http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/vies/api/checkVatPort?wsdl 

It is very simple as no user credentials are requested, thus it should work with most clients.

/gustav


>>> dbdoug at gmail.com 30-08-2009 23:47 >>>
Hi Gustav (and Shamil)

I've been following this discussion with some interest.  My impression of
web services is that they are basically for publishing information (like a
parts catalogue) which could be read and used by clients.  I gather that
this is not the whole picture.

I've spent several hours on the web recently trying to get more information;
however I have yet to stumble on a site which gives a clear explanation
and/or some practical examples.  Do you have any good references?

Thanks,

Doug Steele




From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Mon Aug 31 12:29:26 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 21:29:26 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] How to Consume a Web Service (Request for Help,
	not urgent)
In-Reply-To: <006901ca2a21$702c01a0$508404e0$@spb.ru>
References: <006901ca2a21$702c01a0$508404e0$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <00a301ca2a60$97e5b080$c7b11180$@spb.ru>

Hi All,

I have got a helping hand from Mike, Gustav and Doug who happened to be
"Lucky Guys" (thank you guys!) - they have referred below sample working
well "out of the box".

This sample solution (in Mike's interpretation) is posted here:

http://northwind.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=26600#D
ownloadId=81391  (~65KB)

It can be used as a test to see if your system is "WCF Web Services
Development Ready".

It has now WCF web service reference set OK (as this reference setting
happened on Mike's VS2008) but when I run it I'm getting runtime error:

"The communication object, System.ServiceModel.Channels.ServiceChannel,
cannot be used for communication because it is in the Faulted state."

I'm currently "digging further" trying to make this sample working on my
system - here is some information I'm looking through:

How to make sure you don't get WCF Faulted State Exception?
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/530731/how-to-make-sure-you-dont-get-wcf-
faulted-state-exception 

Avoiding Problems with the Using Statement
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa355056.aspx 

I will inform you on my further progress (if any).

Thank you for your help.

--
Shamil

P.S. I haven't been "fighting" with this issue all the working day through,
I was already in swimming pool with my kid etc. - yet this issue is one of
the representative cases what make software development so "heavy" sometimes
- the best/quickest solutions for such issues seems to be clean reinstalls
of the systems, and having just latest release versions of MS software on
that systems: still have to find time/resources to prepare something like
that - this current case could be the "last drop"...


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil
Salakhetdinov
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 1:57 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: [dba-VB] How to Consume a Web Service (Request for Help, not
urgent)

Hi All,

 

I'd be very grateful if anybody could go through the following
sample/workthrough using VS2008 SP1

 

"How to Consume a Web Service"

http://johnwsaundersiii.spaces.live.com/?_c11_BlogPart_BlogPart=blogview&_c=
BlogPart&partqs=amonth%3d5%26ayear%3d2009

(watch line wraps)

 

and publish for download/send me privately the sources you'll get. I can't
get this sample working on my system (something is still wrong with my
system setup), and I wanted to compare your sources with the ones I'm
getting here to find out how to solve this "nightmarish" issue.

 

If all will work well it should take several minutes to make the sample
working on your system assuming you have VS2008 SP1 and Windows SDK
installed.

 

Please do not try to look for workarounds if the above sample will not work
out of the box as described - looking for such workaround can take hours and
hours  (and solution depends on your system (current) context/previous
setups I believe) - you'll risk to lose your working day.

 

Solution/workaround should be simple, effective and generic - I still can't
find it nor by myself nor by intensive Googling/Binging.

 

Thank you.

 

--

Shamil

 

 

 

_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


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database 4383 (20090831) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru


 

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database 4384 (20090831) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 



From dbdoug at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 12:40:47 2009
From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 10:40:47 -0700
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet. Now: Look up EU VAT
	No.
In-Reply-To: <sa9c22be.048@cactus.dk>
References: <sa9c22be.048@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <4dd71a0c0908311040v43addfc1v87423638d5e799e3@mail.gmail.com>

That's too easy!  Takes about a second here (west coast of Canada).

Doug

On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 10:21 AM, Gustav Brock <Gustav at cactus.dk> wrote:

> Hi Doug et al
>
> I created another service reference, ServiceEuViesCheckReference, and ran
> this code:
>
>            using (var svc = new
> ServiceEuViesCheckReference.checkVatPortTypeClient())
>            {
>                string countryCode = "DK";
>                string vatNumber = "12002696";
>                bool valid = false;
>                string name = String.Empty;
>                string address = String.Empty;
>                DateTime responseDate = svc.checkVat(
>                    ref countryCode, ref vatNumber,
>                    out valid, out name, out address);
>                Console.WriteLine(responseDate.ToShortDateString());
>                Console.WriteLine(valid.ToString());
>                Console.WriteLine(name);
>                Console.WriteLine(address);
>                Console.Write("Press a key");
>                Console.ReadLine();
>            }
>
> This returns correctly:
>
> ---
> 31-08-2009
> True
> CACTUS DATA APS
> KALKBR?NDERIL?BSKAJ 4A
>
> 2100 K?BENHAVN ?
> Press a key
> ---
>
> This is fun!
> Response time is about 1 second.
>
>


From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Mon Aug 31 12:54:23 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 21:54:23 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet. Now: Look up EU
	VAT	No.
In-Reply-To: <4dd71a0c0908311040v43addfc1v87423638d5e799e3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <sa9c22be.048@cactus.dk>
	<4dd71a0c0908311040v43addfc1v87423638d5e799e3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00a901ca2a64$142e3830$3c8aa890$@spb.ru>

<<<
That's too easy!  
>>>
Yes, C# (VB.NET) development is usually a way easier than VB6/VBA - I mean
that! :)
Of course one need some time to get on speed with .NET Framework, C# and/or
VB.NET...

Well, it may happen you'll get some cases as with WCF Web Services and my
system but if you compare how much such cases did you have with
VB6/VBA/"DLL-Hell" then you'll definitely love .NET Framework/C#/VB.NET
development...

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 9:41 PM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet. Now: Look up EU VAT
No.

That's too easy!  Takes about a second here (west coast of Canada).

Doug

On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 10:21 AM, Gustav Brock <Gustav at cactus.dk> wrote:

> Hi Doug et al
>
> I created another service reference, ServiceEuViesCheckReference, and ran
> this code:
>
>            using (var svc = new
> ServiceEuViesCheckReference.checkVatPortTypeClient())
>            {
>                string countryCode = "DK";
>                string vatNumber = "12002696";
>                bool valid = false;
>                string name = String.Empty;
>                string address = String.Empty;
>                DateTime responseDate = svc.checkVat(
>                    ref countryCode, ref vatNumber,
>                    out valid, out name, out address);
>                Console.WriteLine(responseDate.ToShortDateString());
>                Console.WriteLine(valid.ToString());
>                Console.WriteLine(name);
>                Console.WriteLine(address);
>                Console.Write("Press a key");
>                Console.ReadLine();
>            }
>
> This returns correctly:
>
> ---
> 31-08-2009
> True
> CACTUS DATA APS
> KALKBR?NDERIL?BSKAJ 4A
>
> 2100 K?BENHAVN ?
> Press a key
> ---
>
> This is fun!
> Response time is about 1 second.
>
>
_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4384 (20090831) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru


 

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database 4384 (20090831) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 




From DWUTKA at Marlow.com  Mon Aug 31 14:55:53 2009
From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 14:55:53 -0500
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <4A9ACA3D.3040206@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <A5615CBECEC42E4791D7A7C724E1E9B202447AFA@MIEXCH.Marlow.ii-vi.net>

Hey JC, just going to chime in a bit.  I've developed both web based
apps, and apps that use a VPN connection.

There are advantages to both.  One of the primary advantages of a web
interface, however, is that you are centralizing your processing.  And
you are only sending 'snapshots' of your interface back and forth.

If what you have built works fine over a standard web connection and a
VPN, I'd keep it the way you have it.  If it gets sluggish, then a web
interface would probably speed things up quite a bit.

Drew

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 1:52 PM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet

Shamil,

I understand and mostly agree with your opinions.  Of course I will
accept your advice, start small, 
and not worry about the gobbledygook..

 > I do share Ben Kloosterman's opinion: "The problem is not with WCF
(or Axis) (or SOAP) but with 
people who choose overly complicated scenarios"...

I have to smile because you are recommending soap web services, to
someone just coming up to speed 
on C# (taking a beginners class!) to replace a dead simple to implement
software VPN and a shared 
directory!

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com

The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity 
to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business 
Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender 
immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. 
You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, 
or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons 
or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited.




From DWUTKA at Marlow.com  Mon Aug 31 17:13:52 2009
From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 17:13:52 -0500
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <4dd71a0c0908301447s1c1fc75cw1eac8e9761f2a50@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A5615CBECEC42E4791D7A7C724E1E9B202447AFF@MIEXCH.Marlow.ii-vi.net>

Not the whole picture at all.  

I've always recommended classic asp, to learn some of the ins and outs
of web programming.  There really are three types of web programming.  

Server side (asp, asp.net (sort of), php, etc.).  Server side code is
the guts of your system.  This is where all of your business logic would
be, and this also determines what the end user sees.

Client Side (javascript, java, VBScript, ASP.Net etc).  Client side
scripting is code that will manipulate the page the user has received,
from their computer (so 'disconnected' from the system).  The exception
is ASP.Net.  ASP.Net combines server side and client side with a mix of
code, (automated by ASP.Net).  An example would be a button click.  In a
VBA situation, you can write code behind the OnClick event of a button,
and have that code do whatever you want.  In classic asp, it can
'create' the button, even create client side code, but the asp code
itself is unaware of when the button is pressed.  With ASP.Net, you get
an OnClick event, so it looks like it's something that runs on the
server, but the reality is that ASP.Net is using client side code to
interact with the server.

Formatting code (HTML, Flash, etc.).  How your web page looks is going
to be based on the code used to display your system in a browser.  HTML
is it's own beast, but really not too difficult to get the hang of.

I recommend playing around with classic ASP and HTML, and stay away from
client side scripting initially.  You can build very complex (and well
running) systems with just those two.  ASP.Net and/or the addition of
client side scripting can make certain things easier for the user (but a
little more difficult on the complexity of the code (client side
scripting is notorious for being picky about browsers).

ASP.Net is a VERY powerful tool, but it uses an internally constructed
Client/server scripting combination.  Which gives you TONS of abilities
because of this, but it also comes with a lot of consequences. 

To learn ASP classic, it's just five root objects, with VBScripting.

Drew



-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 4:48 PM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet

Hi Gustav (and Shamil)

I've been following this discussion with some interest.  My impression
of
web services is that they are basically for publishing information (like
a
parts catalogue) which could be read and used by clients.  I gather that
this is not the whole picture.

I've spent several hours on the web recently trying to get more
information;
however I have yet to stumble on a site which gives a clear explanation
and/or some practical examples.  Do you have any good references?

Thanks,

Doug Steele

On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 2:24 PM, Gustav Brock <Gustav at cactus.dk> wrote:

> Hi John
>
> I'll have to second Shamil. When I joined an early presentation of
Windows
> Communication Foundation it was the first time I began understanding
what
> web services are about - all other info had been bits and pieces, some
> working but none with the big picture. WCF is so well thought out that
you
> can say "this time MS got it right".
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com

The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity 
to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business 
Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender 
immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. 
You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, 
or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons 
or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited.




From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Mon Aug 31 17:28:49 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 02:28:49 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] How to Consume a Web Service (Request for Help,
	not urgent)
In-Reply-To: <00a301ca2a60$97e5b080$c7b11180$@spb.ru>
References: <006901ca2a21$702c01a0$508404e0$@spb.ru>
	<00a301ca2a60$97e5b080$c7b11180$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <00c601ca2a8a$6c0c7690$442563b0$@spb.ru>

Hi All,

I have finally got the following runtime error messages:

<<<
Unable to connect to the remote server
Could not connect to http://localhost:59057/Service1.svc. 
TCP error code 10061:
No connection could be made because the target machine actively refused it 
127.0.0.1:59057.
>>>

And I'm not working with any remote servers here - this is just one system
I'm testing on/working with.

I have tried to suppress firewall completely, I have tried to open 59057
port - no luck...

The issue (they tell somewhere) could be also that this machine has several
NICs - usual cable and wireless etc.

Googling/Binging didn't give any clues to solve the issue effectively.

I'm leaving it for now for the "better times"...

I have "Pro WCF, Practical Microsoft SOA Implementation" book - I should
probably read it very carefully through to understand every bit in WCF
configuration and functioning... (BTW, I didn't need to read any books and
almost no any docs to implement several SOAP (.asmx) ASP.NET Web Services,
which work successfully in production for several years, and they work well
on this my system I'm currently "struggling with very basic WCF Web Service"
- it could be a bad day here also today...)

Still I think that modern MS technologies are great and easy to use :)

Thank you for your help.

--
Shamil


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil
Salakhetdinov
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 9:29 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] How to Consume a Web Service (Request for Help, not
urgent)

Hi All,

I have got a helping hand from Mike, Gustav and Doug who happened to be
"Lucky Guys" (thank you guys!) - they have referred below sample working
well "out of the box".

This sample solution (in Mike's interpretation) is posted here:

http://northwind.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=26600#D
ownloadId=81391  (~65KB)

It can be used as a test to see if your system is "WCF Web Services
Development Ready".

It has now WCF web service reference set OK (as this reference setting
happened on Mike's VS2008) but when I run it I'm getting runtime error:

"The communication object, System.ServiceModel.Channels.ServiceChannel,
cannot be used for communication because it is in the Faulted state."

I'm currently "digging further" trying to make this sample working on my
system - here is some information I'm looking through:

How to make sure you don't get WCF Faulted State Exception?
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/530731/how-to-make-sure-you-dont-get-wcf-
faulted-state-exception 

Avoiding Problems with the Using Statement
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa355056.aspx 

I will inform you on my further progress (if any).

Thank you for your help.

--
Shamil

P.S. I haven't been "fighting" with this issue all the working day through,
I was already in swimming pool with my kid etc. - yet this issue is one of
the representative cases what make software development so "heavy" sometimes
- the best/quickest solutions for such issues seems to be clean reinstalls
of the systems, and having just latest release versions of MS software on
that systems: still have to find time/resources to prepare something like
that - this current case could be the "last drop"...


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil
Salakhetdinov
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 1:57 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: [dba-VB] How to Consume a Web Service (Request for Help, not
urgent)

Hi All,

 

I'd be very grateful if anybody could go through the following
sample/workthrough using VS2008 SP1

 

"How to Consume a Web Service"

http://johnwsaundersiii.spaces.live.com/?_c11_BlogPart_BlogPart=blogview&_c=
BlogPart&partqs=amonth%3d5%26ayear%3d2009

(watch line wraps)

 

and publish for download/send me privately the sources you'll get. I can't
get this sample working on my system (something is still wrong with my
system setup), and I wanted to compare your sources with the ones I'm
getting here to find out how to solve this "nightmarish" issue.

 

If all will work well it should take several minutes to make the sample
working on your system assuming you have VS2008 SP1 and Windows SDK
installed.

 

Please do not try to look for workarounds if the above sample will not work
out of the box as described - looking for such workaround can take hours and
hours  (and solution depends on your system (current) context/previous
setups I believe) - you'll risk to lose your working day.

 

Solution/workaround should be simple, effective and generic - I still can't
find it nor by myself nor by intensive Googling/Binging.

 

Thank you.

 

--

Shamil

 

 


 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4385 (20090831) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 



From fhtapia at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 16:41:02 2009
From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 14:41:02 -0700
Subject: [dba-VB] QueryStringParameter error
In-Reply-To: <07C21F79042A4BDD98A27EF049A0B312@advancedinput.com>
References: <b874372a0907292138i26f1e15cqe798a75e0282ccbe@mail.gmail.com>
	<07C21F79042A4BDD98A27EF049A0B312@advancedinput.com>
Message-ID: <b874372a0908051441s29a8f7f7ja7a962f0fdc7fb46@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry for the late reply I had to shelf the project for a few days as I had
other things going... I am the DBA at my company and also do work on our new
SAP BI system (just learning that system) but I do get involved in server
maintenance and any other project that somehow ends up at my feet because
it's cool, fun or needs to be done :| it's just the way it is :)

but to get back to the problem, what I did was to create a surrogate PKID on
this table for languages named pkid and auto numbered, and the technique I
posted of earlier, now works :), so that bridge is now crossed.

I will say this, the Access version of this app was completed the same day
and within about 1hr of this long long asp.net project that has gone on for
weeks :(.



-Francisco
http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More...


On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 9:48 PM, Eric Barro <ebarro at verizon.net> wrote:

>  Francico,
>
> I haven't really worked with the syntax you show below but I've seen a
> buddy
> of mine use it as well. Try and put Response.Write(intLanguage) in your
> code
> to debug and see if it is passing the value.
>
> Eric
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco Tapia
> Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 9:39 PM
> To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
> Subject: [dba-VB] QueryStringParameter error
>
> Hi,
>  I've not been active on this list at all, but I do have a quick question
> someone here may have already ran into.  I am working on an ASP.NET(visual
> studio 2008) and I created a few pages that all work fairly similarly,
> where
> there is a GridView on the main Entity page, and Add pages along with Edit
> pages created with Details View controls.  In the GridView page, I add an
> edit button and the link points the
> ~/language/EditLanguage.aspx?intLanguage={0}.  On the receiving page I
> edited the SELECT command with the proper WHERE clause as WHERE
> intLanguage=
> @intLanguage.  The QueryStringParameter is as follows:
> <SelectParameters>
>            <asp:QueryStringParameter Name="intLanguage"
> QueryStringField="intLanguage" />
>        </SelectParameters>
>
> so this is the same for my other pages such as my Release page and my
> Category page and both work fine, but the language page is different... the
> PKID is the intLanguage field, but it's not an autoincremented number
> (since
> this project is still in it's infancy, I've thought about adding a true
> surrogate PKID and see if that is the problem...
>
> note, If i edit the select command w/o the where, the page loads fine (well
> w/o the parameter being passed so my DetailsView control only displays the
> first record in the recordset, I'm new to ASP.NET and don't really know
> how
> to troubleshoot this.... any ideas?
>
> -Francisco
> http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More...
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>


From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Fri Aug  7 05:43:37 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 14:43:37 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] "Google Maps Navigator" Sample MS Access Application
Message-ID: <005301ca174b$ecbdd3d0$c6397b70$@spb.ru>

Hi All,

 

Have you ever tried to work with Google Maps in MS Access application via MS
Web Browser control?

To do some simple navigation you can use URLs like the following:

 

Finland

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo
<http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=65,27&spn=5,5>
&mode=preview&ll=65,27&spn=5,5 

 

Using this approach I have made a simple sample application, which
screenshot you can see here:

 

http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/temp/GoogleMapsNavigator.jpg

 

My question is: Do you know what format of URLs to use to show just a map?

 

I know there exist the Google Maps API
(http://code.google.com/intl/en-EN/apis/maps/) for advanced usage of Google
Maps via JavaScript but I wanted to try to bypass usage of that API this
time.

 

For the ones interested to experiment via simple Google Maps navigation
approach I have posted MS Access sample application here:

 

http://northwind.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=26600 

 

You can download it using the following URL(watch line wraps):

http://northwind.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=26600#D
ownloadId=78352  (175KB)

 

Our Northwind.CodePlex.com team could use the above approach + Google Maps
API in .NET sample application.

 

More advanced question is: Is there any way to react in MS Access hosting
form's VBA code to the changes done in Google Maps map, e.g. Zoom-in/out,
Move of map .? I mean when Zoon-in/out happens there should be AJAX (Google
Maps API) calls to the Google server - are there any web browser events,
corresponding to that API calls?(I know Browser navigation can be trapped
via web browser events but this isn't the question.) 

 

Thank you.

 

--

Shamil

 

P.S. Some more sample URLs:

 

Finland

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=65,27&spn=5,5

 

UK

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=55,-3&spn=6,6

 

Mexico

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=23,-102&spn=10,10

 

Italy

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=41,12&spn=5,5

 

Australia

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=-25,133&spn=20,20

 

Japan

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=36,138&spn=5,5

 

Madagascar

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=-18,46&spn=10,16



From mmattys at rochester.rr.com  Fri Aug  7 07:49:04 2009
From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 08:49:04 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] "Google Maps Navigator" Sample MS Access Application
References: <005301ca174b$ecbdd3d0$c6397b70$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <9EF9E3348B99401E91E492472CCF227F@Mattys>

Hi Shamil,

I'll take a look - this is of interest to me.

-
Michael R Mattys
MapPoint and Database Dev
www.mattysconsulting.com
-
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Shamil Salakhetdinov" <shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru>
To: "'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'" 
<dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 6:43 AM
Subject: [dba-VB] "Google Maps Navigator" Sample MS Access Application


> Hi All,
>
>
>
> Have you ever tried to work with Google Maps in MS Access application via 
> MS
> Web Browser control?
>
> To do some simple navigation you can use URLs like the following:
>
>
>
> Finland
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo
> <http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=65,27&spn=5,5>
> &mode=preview&ll=65,27&spn=5,5
>
>
>
> Using this approach I have made a simple sample application, which
> screenshot you can see here:
>
>
>
> http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/temp/GoogleMapsNavigator.jpg
>
>
>
> My question is: Do you know what format of URLs to use to show just a map?
>
>
>
> I know there exist the Google Maps API
> (http://code.google.com/intl/en-EN/apis/maps/) for advanced usage of 
> Google
> Maps via JavaScript but I wanted to try to bypass usage of that API this
> time.
>
>
>
> For the ones interested to experiment via simple Google Maps navigation
> approach I have posted MS Access sample application here:
>
>
>
> http://northwind.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=26600
>
>
>
> You can download it using the following URL(watch line wraps):
>
> http://northwind.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=26600#D
> ownloadId=78352  (175KB)
>
>
>
> Our Northwind.CodePlex.com team could use the above approach + Google Maps
> API in .NET sample application.
>
>
>
> More advanced question is: Is there any way to react in MS Access hosting
> form's VBA code to the changes done in Google Maps map, e.g. Zoom-in/out,
> Move of map .? I mean when Zoon-in/out happens there should be AJAX 
> (Google
> Maps API) calls to the Google server - are there any web browser events,
> corresponding to that API calls?(I know Browser navigation can be trapped
> via web browser events but this isn't the question.)
>
>
>
> Thank you.
>
>
>
> --
>
> Shamil
>
>
>
> P.S. Some more sample URLs:
>
>
>
> Finland
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=65,27&spn=5,5
>
>
>
> UK
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=55,-3&spn=6,6
>
>
>
> Mexico
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=23,-102&spn=10,10
>
>
>
> Italy
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=41,12&spn=5,5
>
>
>
> Australia
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=-25,133&spn=20,20
>
>
>
> Japan
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=36,138&spn=5,5
>
>
>
> Madagascar
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=-18,46&spn=10,16
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 



From max.wanadoo at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 11:21:04 2009
From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 17:21:04 +0100
Subject: [dba-VB] "Google Maps Navigator" Sample MS Access Application
In-Reply-To: <005301ca174b$ecbdd3d0$c6397b70$@spb.ru>
References: <005301ca174b$ecbdd3d0$c6397b70$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <4a7c54b1.0a04d00a.07ea.2b62@mx.google.com>

Shamil, I *think* Google provides a lot of APIs for this sort of stuff.

Max


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil
Salakhetdinov
Sent: 07 August 2009 11:44
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: [dba-VB] "Google Maps Navigator" Sample MS Access Application

Hi All,

 

Have you ever tried to work with Google Maps in MS Access application via MS
Web Browser control?

To do some simple navigation you can use URLs like the following:

 

Finland

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo
<http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=65,27&spn=5,5>
&mode=preview&ll=65,27&spn=5,5 

 

Using this approach I have made a simple sample application, which
screenshot you can see here:

 

http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/temp/GoogleMapsNavigator.jpg

 

My question is: Do you know what format of URLs to use to show just a map?

 

I know there exist the Google Maps API
(http://code.google.com/intl/en-EN/apis/maps/) for advanced usage of Google
Maps via JavaScript but I wanted to try to bypass usage of that API this
time.

 

For the ones interested to experiment via simple Google Maps navigation
approach I have posted MS Access sample application here:

 

http://northwind.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=26600 

 

You can download it using the following URL(watch line wraps):

http://northwind.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=26600#D
ownloadId=78352  (175KB)

 

Our Northwind.CodePlex.com team could use the above approach + Google Maps
API in .NET sample application.

 

More advanced question is: Is there any way to react in MS Access hosting
form's VBA code to the changes done in Google Maps map, e.g. Zoom-in/out,
Move of map .? I mean when Zoon-in/out happens there should be AJAX (Google
Maps API) calls to the Google server - are there any web browser events,
corresponding to that API calls?(I know Browser navigation can be trapped
via web browser events but this isn't the question.) 

 

Thank you.

 

--

Shamil

 

P.S. Some more sample URLs:

 

Finland

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=65,27&spn=5,5

 

UK

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=55,-3&spn=6,6

 

Mexico

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=23,-102&spn=10,10

 

Italy

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=41,12&spn=5,5

 

Australia

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=-25,133&spn=20,20

 

Japan

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=36,138&spn=5,5

 

Madagascar

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=-18,46&spn=10,16

_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From mmattys at rochester.rr.com  Fri Aug  7 11:43:13 2009
From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 12:43:13 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] "Google Maps Navigator" Sample MS Access Application
References: <005301ca174b$ecbdd3d0$c6397b70$@spb.ru>
	<4a7c54b1.0a04d00a.07ea.2b62@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <78954CFB9B7E441FA0B6ED708815CE40@Mattys>

Hi Max,

Imagine if you could do all of it in Access, though.
Seems like AJAX could be duplicated through VBA or WSH,
which are client-side, instead of Javascript and XMLHTTPRequest
-
Michael R Mattys
MapPoint and Database Dev
www.mattysconsulting.com
-

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Max Wanadoo" <max.wanadoo at gmail.com>
To: "'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'" 
<dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 12:21 PM
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] "Google Maps Navigator" Sample MS Access Application


> Shamil, I *think* Google provides a lot of APIs for this sort of stuff.
>
> Max
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil
> Salakhetdinov
> Sent: 07 August 2009 11:44
> To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
> Subject: [dba-VB] "Google Maps Navigator" Sample MS Access Application
>
> Hi All,
>
>
>
> Have you ever tried to work with Google Maps in MS Access application via 
> MS
> Web Browser control?
>
> To do some simple navigation you can use URLs like the following:
>
>
>
> Finland
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo
> <http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=65,27&spn=5,5>
> &mode=preview&ll=65,27&spn=5,5
>
>
>
> Using this approach I have made a simple sample application, which
> screenshot you can see here:
>
>
>
> http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/temp/GoogleMapsNavigator.jpg
>
>
>
> My question is: Do you know what format of URLs to use to show just a map?
>
>
>
> I know there exist the Google Maps API
> (http://code.google.com/intl/en-EN/apis/maps/) for advanced usage of 
> Google
> Maps via JavaScript but I wanted to try to bypass usage of that API this
> time.
>
>
>
> For the ones interested to experiment via simple Google Maps navigation
> approach I have posted MS Access sample application here:
>
>
>
> http://northwind.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=26600
>
>
>
> You can download it using the following URL(watch line wraps):
>
> http://northwind.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=26600#D
> ownloadId=78352  (175KB)
>
>
>
> Our Northwind.CodePlex.com team could use the above approach + Google Maps
> API in .NET sample application.
>
>
>
> More advanced question is: Is there any way to react in MS Access hosting
> form's VBA code to the changes done in Google Maps map, e.g. Zoom-in/out,
> Move of map .? I mean when Zoon-in/out happens there should be AJAX 
> (Google
> Maps API) calls to the Google server - are there any web browser events,
> corresponding to that API calls?(I know Browser navigation can be trapped
> via web browser events but this isn't the question.)
>
>
>
> Thank you.
>
>
>
> --
>
> Shamil
>
>
>
> P.S. Some more sample URLs:
>
>
>
> Finland
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=65,27&spn=5,5
>
>
>
> UK
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=55,-3&spn=6,6
>
>
>
> Mexico
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=23,-102&spn=10,10
>
>
>
> Italy
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=41,12&spn=5,5
>
>
>
> Australia
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=-25,133&spn=20,20
>
>
>
> Japan
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=36,138&spn=5,5
>
>
>
> Madagascar
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=-18,46&spn=10,16
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 



From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Fri Aug  7 13:31:39 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 22:31:39 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] "Google Maps Navigator" Sample MS Access Application
In-Reply-To: <78954CFB9B7E441FA0B6ED708815CE40@Mattys>
References: <005301ca174b$ecbdd3d0$c6397b70$@spb.ru>	<4a7c54b1.0a04d00a.07ea.2b62@mx.google.com>
	<78954CFB9B7E441FA0B6ED708815CE40@Mattys>
Message-ID: <006d01ca178d$4f9569a0$eec03ce0$@spb.ru>

Hi Mike and Max,

Thank you for your feedback.

Not sure yet here what(how) I wanted to solve my task, which should behave
something like this sample:

http://graargh.returnstrue.com/rajdeep/maps/tools/latlong_tool/v7/lat-long-t
ool_v7.html

but with "clicked" location information "feeded back" to MS Access host
form's VBA code and then stored to MS Access database as well as MS Access
form "setting the scene" (current map) and "drawing bubbles" on that map for
selected on MS Access form's controls locations, and presenting information
on what property/geoobject is situated "under the bubble" ....

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mike Mattys
Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 8:43 PM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] "Google Maps Navigator" Sample MS Access Application

Hi Max,

Imagine if you could do all of it in Access, though.
Seems like AJAX could be duplicated through VBA or WSH,
which are client-side, instead of Javascript and XMLHTTPRequest
-
Michael R Mattys
MapPoint and Database Dev
www.mattysconsulting.com
-

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Max Wanadoo" <max.wanadoo at gmail.com>
To: "'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'" 
<dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 12:21 PM
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] "Google Maps Navigator" Sample MS Access Application


> Shamil, I *think* Google provides a lot of APIs for this sort of stuff.
>
> Max
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil
> Salakhetdinov
> Sent: 07 August 2009 11:44
> To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
> Subject: [dba-VB] "Google Maps Navigator" Sample MS Access Application
>
> Hi All,
>
>
>
> Have you ever tried to work with Google Maps in MS Access application via 
> MS
> Web Browser control?
>
> To do some simple navigation you can use URLs like the following:
>
>
>
> Finland
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo
> <http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=65,27&spn=5,5>
> &mode=preview&ll=65,27&spn=5,5
>
>
>
> Using this approach I have made a simple sample application, which
> screenshot you can see here:
>
>
>
> http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/temp/GoogleMapsNavigator.jpg
>
>
>
> My question is: Do you know what format of URLs to use to show just a map?
>
>
>
> I know there exist the Google Maps API
> (http://code.google.com/intl/en-EN/apis/maps/) for advanced usage of 
> Google
> Maps via JavaScript but I wanted to try to bypass usage of that API this
> time.
>
>
>
> For the ones interested to experiment via simple Google Maps navigation
> approach I have posted MS Access sample application here:
>
>
>
> http://northwind.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=26600
>
>
>
> You can download it using the following URL(watch line wraps):
>
>
http://northwind.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=26600#D
> ownloadId=78352  (175KB)
>
>
>
> Our Northwind.CodePlex.com team could use the above approach + Google Maps
> API in .NET sample application.
>
>
>
> More advanced question is: Is there any way to react in MS Access hosting
> form's VBA code to the changes done in Google Maps map, e.g. Zoom-in/out,
> Move of map .? I mean when Zoon-in/out happens there should be AJAX 
> (Google
> Maps API) calls to the Google server - are there any web browser events,
> corresponding to that API calls?(I know Browser navigation can be trapped
> via web browser events but this isn't the question.)
>
>
>
> Thank you.
>
>
>
> --
>
> Shamil
>
>
>
> P.S. Some more sample URLs:
>
>
>
> Finland
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=65,27&spn=5,5
>
>
>
> UK
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=55,-3&spn=6,6
>
>
>
> Mexico
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=23,-102&spn=10,10
>
>
>
> Italy
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=41,12&spn=5,5
>
>
>
> Australia
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=-25,133&spn=20,20
>
>
>
> Japan
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=36,138&spn=5,5
>
>
>
> Madagascar
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=-18,46&spn=10,16
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 

_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4315 (20090807) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru





From max.wanadoo at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 15:26:13 2009
From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 21:26:13 +0100
Subject: [dba-VB] "Google Maps Navigator" Sample MS Access Application
In-Reply-To: <006d01ca178d$4f9569a0$eec03ce0$@spb.ru>
References: <005301ca174b$ecbdd3d0$c6397b70$@spb.ru>	<4a7c54b1.0a04d00a.07ea.2b62@mx.google.com>	<78954CFB9B7E441FA0B6ED708815CE40@Mattys>
	<006d01ca178d$4f9569a0$eec03ce0$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <4a7c8dfb.0707d00a.26a7.4dd6@mx.google.com>

Some Links: (Wraps??)

http://www.google.co.uk/enterprise/maps/#utm_campaign=en&utm_source=en-ha-em
ea-gb-sk_devs&utm_medium=ha&utm_term=google%20maps%20api


http://code.google.com/apis/maps/index.html

http://code.google.com/apis/maps/documentation/examples/

Some code:

function initialize() {
  if (GBrowserIsCompatible()) {
    var map = new GMap2(document.getElementById("map_canvas"));
    map.setCenter(new GLatLng(37.4419, -122.1419), 13);
  }
}



Max




From Gustav at cactus.dk  Fri Aug  7 17:02:32 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 00:02:32 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] "Google Maps Navigator" Sample MS Access	Application
Message-ID: <sa7cc0a7.011@cactus.dk>

Hi Shamil

I'm not familiar with the MS Web Browser control but in .Net I have used this URL to display just the map:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=da&geocode=&q=kalkbr%C3%A6nderil%C3%B8bskaj+4+a,+denmark&sll=46.377254,-86.484375&sspn=28.638122,54.84375&ie=UTF8&t=p&s=AARTsJo6QIZIUSLZJjht_Zf2KrLNZ8c1xw&ll=55.720439,12.595997&spn=0.01692,0.036478&z=14&iwloc=addr&output=embed

Maybe you can decode its parts for your purpose.

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 07-08-2009 12:43 >>>
Hi All,

Have you ever tried to work with Google Maps in MS Access application via MS
Web Browser control?

To do some simple navigation you can use URLs like the following:

Finland

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=65,27&spn=5,5 

Using this approach I have made a simple sample application, which
screenshot you can see here:

http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/temp/GoogleMapsNavigator.jpg 

My question is: Do you know what format of URLs to use to show just a map?

I know there exist the Google Maps API
(http://code.google.com/intl/en-EN/apis/maps/) for advanced usage of Google
Maps via JavaScript but I wanted to try to bypass usage of that API this
time.

For the ones interested to experiment via simple Google Maps navigation
approach I have posted MS Access sample application here:

http://northwind.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=26600 

You can download it using the following URL(watch line wraps):

http://northwind.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=26600#DownloadId=78352  (175KB)

Our Northwind.CodePlex.com team could use the above approach + Google Maps
API in .NET sample application.

More advanced question is: Is there any way to react in MS Access hosting
form's VBA code to the changes done in Google Maps map, e.g. Zoom-in/out,
Move of map .? I mean when Zoon-in/out happens there should be AJAX (Google
Maps API) calls to the Google server - are there any web browser events,
corresponding to that API calls?(I know Browser navigation can be trapped
via web browser events but this isn't the question.) 

Thank you.

--

Shamil

P.S. Some more sample URLs:

Finland

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=65,27&spn=5,5 

UK

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=55,-3&spn=6,6 

Mexico

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=23,-102&spn=10,10 

Italy

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=41,12&spn=5,5 

Australia

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=-25,133&spn=20,20 

Japan

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=36,138&spn=5,5 

Madagascar

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=-18,46&spn=10,16 





From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Fri Aug  7 17:08:55 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 02:08:55 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] "Google Maps Navigator" Sample MS Access Application
In-Reply-To: <4a7c8dfb.0707d00a.26a7.4dd6@mx.google.com>
References: <005301ca174b$ecbdd3d0$c6397b70$@spb.ru>	<4a7c54b1.0a04d00a.07ea.2b62@mx.google.com>	<78954CFB9B7E441FA0B6ED708815CE40@Mattys>	<006d01ca178d$4f9569a0$eec03ce0$@spb.ru>
	<4a7c8dfb.0707d00a.26a7.4dd6@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <007a01ca17ab$a974c8d0$fc5e5a70$@spb.ru>

Hi Max,

Thank you for the links - I have found especially useful currently this one:

GoogleMaps API Samples
http://code.google.com/intl/ru-RU/apis/maps/documentation/examples/

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo
Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 12:26 AM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] "Google Maps Navigator" Sample MS Access Application

Some Links: (Wraps??)

http://www.google.co.uk/enterprise/maps/#utm_campaign=en&utm_source=en-ha-em
ea-gb-sk_devs&utm_medium=ha&utm_term=google%20maps%20api


http://code.google.com/apis/maps/index.html

http://code.google.com/apis/maps/documentation/examples/

Some code:

function initialize() {
  if (GBrowserIsCompatible()) {
    var map = new GMap2(document.getElementById("map_canvas"));
    map.setCenter(new GLatLng(37.4419, -122.1419), 13);
  }
}



Max


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The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 



From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Fri Aug  7 17:26:11 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 02:26:11 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] "Google Maps Navigator" Sample MS Access	Application
In-Reply-To: <sa7cc0a7.011@cactus.dk>
References: <sa7cc0a7.011@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <007b01ca17ae$126a1190$373e34b0$@spb.ru>

HI Gustav,

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 2:03 AM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] "Google Maps Navigator" Sample MS Access Application

Hi Shamil

I'm not familiar with the MS Web Browser control but in .Net I have used
this URL to display just the map:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=da&geocode=&q=kalkbr%C3%A6nder
il%C3%B8bskaj+4+a,+denmark&sll=46.377254,-86.484375&sspn=28.638122,54.84375&
ie=UTF8&t=p&s=AARTsJo6QIZIUSLZJjht_Zf2KrLNZ8c1xw&ll=55.720439,12.595997&spn=
0.01692,0.036478&z=14&iwloc=addr&output=embed

Maybe you can decode its parts for your purpose.

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 07-08-2009 12:43 >>>
Hi All,

Have you ever tried to work with Google Maps in MS Access application via MS
Web Browser control?

To do some simple navigation you can use URLs like the following:

Finland

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=65,27&spn=5,5 

Using this approach I have made a simple sample application, which
screenshot you can see here:

http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/temp/GoogleMapsNavigator.jpg 

My question is: Do you know what format of URLs to use to show just a map?

I know there exist the Google Maps API
(http://code.google.com/intl/en-EN/apis/maps/) for advanced usage of Google
Maps via JavaScript but I wanted to try to bypass usage of that API this
time.

For the ones interested to experiment via simple Google Maps navigation
approach I have posted MS Access sample application here:

http://northwind.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=26600 

You can download it using the following URL(watch line wraps):

http://northwind.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=26600#D
ownloadId=78352  (175KB)

Our Northwind.CodePlex.com team could use the above approach + Google Maps
API in .NET sample application.

More advanced question is: Is there any way to react in MS Access hosting
form's VBA code to the changes done in Google Maps map, e.g. Zoom-in/out,
Move of map .? I mean when Zoon-in/out happens there should be AJAX (Google
Maps API) calls to the Google server - are there any web browser events,
corresponding to that API calls?(I know Browser navigation can be trapped
via web browser events but this isn't the question.) 

Thank you.

--

Shamil

P.S. Some more sample URLs:

Finland

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=65,27&spn=5,5 

UK

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=55,-3&spn=6,6 

Mexico

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=23,-102&spn=10,10 

Italy

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=41,12&spn=5,5 

Australia

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=-25,133&spn=20,20 

Japan

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=36,138&spn=5,5 

Madagascar

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=-18,46&spn=10,16 



_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


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database 4316 (20090807) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru


 

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database 4316 (20090807) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 



From fhtapia at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 13:14:55 2009
From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 11:14:55 -0700
Subject: [dba-VB] Reading and Writing to XML file (VB.Net 2005)
Message-ID: <b874372a0908111114h31990dbcl3707dc1f36cc974e@mail.gmail.com>

So it's been a while since I've done any programming in .net and this step
is something I've never done in .net, I've done it in Access and VB in the
past and involved writing classes, but am wondering how it's approached in
.net  (also for beginner vb.net you can point me to site you prefer if you
like)

my task.

I have a simple .net app, it queries a database and populates a DataGridView
control.  I purpose of this app is that it reads the time information from
our timeclock server so that users can easily see when their lunch or clock
out time for the day are since they have a flexibility of +/- 10min for
clocking in during the morning and at lunch.

It works well, but some users have asked for a tolerance to allow the app to
remind them as early as 10 minutes to clock out or as late as 1 min before
they absolutely need to clock out.  A settings form was then developed and
now I'm scracthing my head as I think I should store these settings into an
xml file, but thought that since I'm in .net that writing to an xml file
that was added using the add new item in my project should be simpler but
maybe I'm just wrong?



-Francisco
http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More...


From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Tue Aug 11 13:37:32 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 22:37:32 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Reading and Writing to XML file (VB.Net 2005)
In-Reply-To: <b874372a0908111114h31990dbcl3707dc1f36cc974e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b874372a0908111114h31990dbcl3707dc1f36cc974e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <004801ca1ab2$cb8b8620$62a29260$@spb.ru>

Hi Francisco,

Recommended by MS is to use:

Right-click Project Name -> Properties -> Settings

see "Settings Page, Project Designer" for more information.
see also "Application Settings".


--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco Tapia
Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 10:15 PM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: [dba-VB] Reading and Writing to XML file (VB.Net 2005)

So it's been a while since I've done any programming in .net and this step
is something I've never done in .net, I've done it in Access and VB in the
past and involved writing classes, but am wondering how it's approached in
.net  (also for beginner vb.net you can point me to site you prefer if you
like)

my task.

I have a simple .net app, it queries a database and populates a DataGridView
control.  I purpose of this app is that it reads the time information from
our timeclock server so that users can easily see when their lunch or clock
out time for the day are since they have a flexibility of +/- 10min for
clocking in during the morning and at lunch.

It works well, but some users have asked for a tolerance to allow the app to
remind them as early as 10 minutes to clock out or as late as 1 min before
they absolutely need to clock out.  A settings form was then developed and
now I'm scracthing my head as I think I should store these settings into an
xml file, but thought that since I'm in .net that writing to an xml file
that was added using the add new item in my project should be simpler but
maybe I'm just wrong?



-Francisco
http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More...
_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4326 (20090811) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru


 

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database 4326 (20090811) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 



From fhtapia at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 14:40:47 2009
From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 12:40:47 -0700
Subject: [dba-VB] Reading and Writing to XML file (VB.Net 2005)
In-Reply-To: <004801ca1ab2$cb8b8620$62a29260$@spb.ru>
References: <b874372a0908111114h31990dbcl3707dc1f36cc974e@mail.gmail.com>
	<004801ca1ab2$cb8b8620$62a29260$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <b874372a0908111240p6f84c4e4qfc5af6b1fa452da@mail.gmail.com>

That's cool! Thanks Shamil!

-Francisco
http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More...


On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 11:37 AM, Shamil Salakhetdinov <
shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru> wrote:

> Hi Francisco,
>
> Recommended by MS is to use:
>
> Right-click Project Name -> Properties -> Settings
>
> see "Settings Page, Project Designer" for more information.
> see also "Application Settings".
>
>
> --
> Shamil
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco Tapia
> Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 10:15 PM
> To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
> Subject: [dba-VB] Reading and Writing to XML file (VB.Net 2005)
>
> So it's been a while since I've done any programming in .net and this step
> is something I've never done in .net, I've done it in Access and VB in the
> past and involved writing classes, but am wondering how it's approached in
> .net  (also for beginner vb.net you can point me to site you prefer if you
> like)
>
> my task.
>
> I have a simple .net app, it queries a database and populates a
> DataGridView
> control.  I purpose of this app is that it reads the time information from
> our timeclock server so that users can easily see when their lunch or clock
> out time for the day are since they have a flexibility of +/- 10min for
> clocking in during the morning and at lunch.
>
> It works well, but some users have asked for a tolerance to allow the app
> to
> remind them as early as 10 minutes to clock out or as late as 1 min before
> they absolutely need to clock out.  A settings form was then developed and
> now I'm scracthing my head as I think I should store these settings into an
> xml file, but thought that since I'm in .net that writing to an xml file
> that was added using the add new item in my project should be simpler but
> maybe I'm just wrong?
>
>
>
> -Francisco
> http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More...
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
> signature
> database 4326 (20090811) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.esetnod32.ru
>
>
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
> signature
> database 4326 (20090811) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.esetnod32.ru
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>


From Gustav at cactus.dk  Fri Aug 14 09:57:40 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 16:57:40 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] Visual Studio 2008 Service Pack 1 ATL Security
	Update	(2009-08-03)
Message-ID: <sa859795.032@cactus.dk>

Hi all

For some reason I had trouble finding the download for this and had to google and look up a blog somewhere.
But here it is - 365 MB:

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?displaylang=en&FamilyID=294de390-3c94-49fb-a014-9a38580e64cb

/gustav




From Gustav at cactus.dk  Sun Aug 16 16:31:36 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 23:31:36 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] LINQ for EF Example (Part III)
Message-ID: <sa8896ff.062@cactus.dk>

Hi Shamil

This is a nice and clean example worth studying for anyone having the slightest interest in EF.
I'll see if I can find some contribution time for it this week.

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 23-07-2009 19:17 >>>

FYI: I have just got released a small VS2008 project:

- SPJWinFormsForEF_VS2008.zip - VS2008 sample project to demonstrate
WinForms and MS ReportViewer reports bound to ADO.NET Entity Framework
object datasources;
- SPJWinFormsForEF_Executables.zip - just executables and sample database
for the above sample project.

which can be used as sample to work on converting Northwind.NET to use
ADO.NET Entity Framework object data sources.

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 4:36 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] LINQ for EF Example (Part III)

Hi Shamil and team

That's fine with me.

I'm on my way with Rita (wife) to the nature of Sweden and Norway for a
relaxing break and will be back Monday 2009-08-03. Will try to view the
inbox now and then but won't promise anything ...

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-07-2009 19:29 >>>
Hi Mike and Gustav,

Thank you for your approval to team up to develop Northwind.NET for EF.
Let's first of all implement a simple sample form (Shippers, Suppliers...)
with BindingNavigator bound to object data source, and a simple sample
report (Shippers) bound to object data source, and then implement all the
other forms and reports of Northwind.NET using samples as templates?

Do you see any other ways to proceed with this project?

Thank you.

--
Shamil


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2009 11:26 AM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] LINQ for EF Example (Part III)

Hi Shamil

Of course, in lazy summer mode, as I probably will be off for a week or so
from late next week.

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 18-07-2009 14:30 >>>
Hi Mike,

Yes, "LINQ for ADO.NET Entity Framework" to be precise :)

What about teaming-up with Gustav and myself and to port our Northwind.NET
for MS SQL 2005 to "LINQ for ADO.NET Entity Framework"? Just an idea - and
doing that project in "lazy summer mode" without setting strict deadlines?

Gustav how about you?
Anybody else?

Have nice weekend.

--
Shamil





From mmattys at rochester.rr.com  Sun Aug 16 21:06:44 2009
From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 22:06:44 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] LINQ for EF Example (Part III)
References: <sa8896ff.062@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <7AACCA400CC8478C90F410420ADE9DD7@Mattys>

Hi Gustav, Shamil

This LinqPad might be handy
http://www.linqpad.net/WhyLINQBeatsSQL.aspx

-
Michael R Mattys
MapPoint and Database Dev
www.mattysconsulting.com
-

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Gustav Brock" <Gustav at cactus.dk>
To: <dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 5:31 PM
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] LINQ for EF Example (Part III)


> Hi Shamil
>
> This is a nice and clean example worth studying for anyone having the 
> slightest interest in EF.
> I'll see if I can find some contribution time for it this week.
>
> /gustav
>
>
>>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 23-07-2009 19:17 >>>
>
> FYI: I have just got released a small VS2008 project:
>
> - SPJWinFormsForEF_VS2008.zip - VS2008 sample project to demonstrate
> WinForms and MS ReportViewer reports bound to ADO.NET Entity Framework
> object datasources;
> - SPJWinFormsForEF_Executables.zip - just executables and sample database
> for the above sample project.
>
> which can be used as sample to work on converting Northwind.NET to use
> ADO.NET Entity Framework object data sources.
>
> Thank you.
>
> --
> Shamil
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
> Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 4:36 PM
> To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] LINQ for EF Example (Part III)
>
> Hi Shamil and team
>
> That's fine with me.
>
> I'm on my way with Rita (wife) to the nature of Sweden and Norway for a
> relaxing break and will be back Monday 2009-08-03. Will try to view the
> inbox now and then but won't promise anything ...
>
> /gustav
>
>



From Gustav at cactus.dk  Mon Aug 17 03:00:16 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 10:00:16 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] LINQ for EF Example (Part III)
Message-ID: <sa892a54.066@cactus.dk>

Hi Michael

Yes, it is very good. Also, with its many examples, this is a very good site to learn about the LINQ syntax.

/gustav


>>> mmattys at rochester.rr.com 17-08-2009 04:06 >>>
Hi Gustav, Shamil

This LinqPad might be handy
http://www.linqpad.net/WhyLINQBeatsSQL.aspx 

-
Michael R Mattys
MapPoint and Database Dev
www.mattysconsulting.com 
-

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Gustav Brock" <Gustav at cactus.dk>
To: <dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 5:31 PM
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] LINQ for EF Example (Part III)


> Hi Shamil
>
> This is a nice and clean example worth studying for anyone having the 
> slightest interest in EF.
> I'll see if I can find some contribution time for it this week.
>
> /gustav
>
>
>>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 23-07-2009 19:17 >>>
>
> FYI: I have just got released a small VS2008 project:
>
> - SPJWinFormsForEF_VS2008.zip - VS2008 sample project to demonstrate
> WinForms and MS ReportViewer reports bound to ADO.NET Entity Framework
> object datasources;
> - SPJWinFormsForEF_Executables.zip - just executables and sample database
> for the above sample project.
>
> which can be used as sample to work on converting Northwind.NET to use
> ADO.NET Entity Framework object data sources.
>
> Thank you.
>
> --
> Shamil
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
> Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 4:36 PM
> To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] LINQ for EF Example (Part III)
>
> Hi Shamil and team
>
> That's fine with me.
>
> I'm on my way with Rita (wife) to the nature of Sweden and Norway for a
> relaxing break and will be back Monday 2009-08-03. Will try to view the
> inbox now and then but won't promise anything ...
>
> /gustav





From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Mon Aug 17 13:15:38 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 22:15:38 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] LINQ for EF Example (Part III)
In-Reply-To: <sa8896ff.062@cactus.dk>
References: <sa8896ff.062@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <003601ca1f66$ba0bef30$2e23cd90$@spb.ru>

Hi Gistav, Mike and All,

TIA, Gistav.

I've got quite a bit of work here in the end of July/beginning-middle of
August - still can't continue with Northwind.NET for EF but we will make it
for sure.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 1:32 AM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] LINQ for EF Example (Part III)

Hi Shamil

This is a nice and clean example worth studying for anyone having the
slightest interest in EF.
I'll see if I can find some contribution time for it this week.

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 23-07-2009 19:17 >>>

FYI: I have just got released a small VS2008 project:

- SPJWinFormsForEF_VS2008.zip - VS2008 sample project to demonstrate
WinForms and MS ReportViewer reports bound to ADO.NET Entity Framework
object datasources;
- SPJWinFormsForEF_Executables.zip - just executables and sample database
for the above sample project.

which can be used as sample to work on converting Northwind.NET to use
ADO.NET Entity Framework object data sources.

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 4:36 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] LINQ for EF Example (Part III)

Hi Shamil and team

That's fine with me.

I'm on my way with Rita (wife) to the nature of Sweden and Norway for a
relaxing break and will be back Monday 2009-08-03. Will try to view the
inbox now and then but won't promise anything ...

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-07-2009 19:29 >>>
Hi Mike and Gustav,

Thank you for your approval to team up to develop Northwind.NET for EF.
Let's first of all implement a simple sample form (Shippers, Suppliers...)
with BindingNavigator bound to object data source, and a simple sample
report (Shippers) bound to object data source, and then implement all the
other forms and reports of Northwind.NET using samples as templates?

Do you see any other ways to proceed with this project?

Thank you.

--
Shamil


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2009 11:26 AM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] LINQ for EF Example (Part III)

Hi Shamil

Of course, in lazy summer mode, as I probably will be off for a week or so
from late next week.

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 18-07-2009 14:30 >>>
Hi Mike,

Yes, "LINQ for ADO.NET Entity Framework" to be precise :)

What about teaming-up with Gustav and myself and to port our Northwind.NET
for MS SQL 2005 to "LINQ for ADO.NET Entity Framework"? Just an idea - and
doing that project in "lazy summer mode" without setting strict deadlines?

Gustav how about you?
Anybody else?

Have nice weekend.

--
Shamil



_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


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From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Thu Aug 20 10:38:36 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 19:38:36 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications
Message-ID: <00f801ca21ac$49d8d8c0$dd8a8a40$@spb.ru>

Hi All,

 

I'm currently working on a project where I use Dynamic Data Entities Web
Applications - DDEWA-(VS2008 SP1).

 

I have tried to search Google and Bing to find some information on DDEWA but
failed.

Do you have any useful links on DDEWA?

 

Thank you.

 

--

Shamil

 



From Gustav at cactus.dk  Thu Aug 20 10:43:56 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 17:43:56 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications
Message-ID: <sa8d8b73.048@cactus.dk>

Hi Shamil

No, not me. But how did you get started on this having no info??

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 20-08-2009 17:38 >>>
Hi All,

I'm currently working on a project where I use Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications - DDEWA-(VS2008 SP1).

I have tried to search Google and Bing to find some information on DDEWA but failed.

Do you have any useful links on DDEWA?

Thank you.

--
Shamil





From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Thu Aug 20 11:06:21 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 20:06:21 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications
In-Reply-To: <sa8d8b73.048@cactus.dk>
References: <sa8d8b73.048@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <00fd01ca21b0$2a612250$7f2366f0$@spb.ru>

Hi Gustav,

VS2008 SP1: 

1. Solution: Add: New Project -> Dynamic Data Entities Web Application...
2. Project: Add: New Item -> ADO.NET Entity Data Model

The next steps are rather obvious, and Global.asax's comments give the clue
how to make the application to work.

But I can't get some more information on this type of projects. Yes, I can
investigate them but I'd prefer to have some ready to use descriptions. 

Can't find them online on MSDN....

I have just got this link, which looks interesting:

http://channel9.msdn.com/posts/matthijs/Fastest-To-Market-RAD-Web-Applicatio
ns-with-ASPNET-Dynamic-Data-and-Entity-Framework/

It's a 1+ hour video...

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 7:44 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil

No, not me. But how did you get started on this having no info??

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 20-08-2009 17:38 >>>
Hi All,

I'm currently working on a project where I use Dynamic Data Entities Web
Applications - DDEWA-(VS2008 SP1).

I have tried to search Google and Bing to find some information on DDEWA but
failed.

Do you have any useful links on DDEWA?

Thank you.

--
Shamil



_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4351 (20090820) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru


 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4351 (20090820) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 



From Gustav at cactus.dk  Thu Aug 20 11:21:31 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 18:21:31 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications
Message-ID: <sa8d943d.049@cactus.dk>

Hi Shamil

How about this, part 1 of 5:

http://www.c-sharpcorner.com/UploadFile/satisharveti/DynamicWebappln101152009023618AM/DynamicWebappln1.aspx 

Pretty basic and few illustrations only but still something.

Will see if I can find one hour for the video ...

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 20-08-2009 18:06 >>>
Hi Gustav,

VS2008 SP1: 

1. Solution: Add: New Project -> Dynamic Data Entities Web Application...
2. Project: Add: New Item -> ADO.NET Entity Data Model

The next steps are rather obvious, and Global.asax's comments give the clue
how to make the application to work.

But I can't get some more information on this type of projects. Yes, I can
investigate them but I'd prefer to have some ready to use descriptions. 

Can't find them online on MSDN....

I have just got this link, which looks interesting:

http://channel9.msdn.com/posts/matthijs/Fastest-To-Market-RAD-Web-Applications-with-ASPNET-Dynamic-Data-and-Entity-Framework/

It's a 1+ hour video...

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 7:44 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil

No, not me. But how did you get started on this having no info??

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 20-08-2009 17:38 >>>
Hi All,

I'm currently working on a project where I use Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications - DDEWA-(VS2008 SP1).

I have tried to search Google and Bing to find some information on DDEWA but failed.

Do you have any useful links on DDEWA?

Thank you.

--
Shamil





From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Thu Aug 20 14:22:49 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 23:22:49 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications
In-Reply-To: <sa8d943d.049@cactus.dk>
References: <sa8d943d.049@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <010a01ca21cb$9c846340$d58d29c0$@spb.ru>

Hi Gustav,

Thank you for the link - he parts 1 to 6 give similar to the channel9
presentation information - I watched the latter, it's a bit hectic but
useful to get general idea what Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications are
and how to customize them.

I currently plan to use Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications for initial
data entry/edit for my customer application - it works well when datamodel
is ready - just generate ASP.NET application.

I also wanted to find a way to somehow "grab" generated .aspx pages to use
them in developing custom .aspx webforms/pages: not sure yet how to do that
but it should be possible I hope as they obviously(?) generate .aspx pages
on-the-fly, and there could be a way to grab generated .aspx page before
it's getting rendered on server side...

I currently do not plan to use Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications
customization features.

Thank you.

--
Shamil 

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 8:22 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil

How about this, part 1 of 5:

http://www.c-sharpcorner.com/UploadFile/satisharveti/DynamicWebappln10115200
9023618AM/DynamicWebappln1.aspx 

Pretty basic and few illustrations only but still something.

Will see if I can find one hour for the video ...

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 20-08-2009 18:06 >>>
Hi Gustav,

VS2008 SP1: 

1. Solution: Add: New Project -> Dynamic Data Entities Web Application...
2. Project: Add: New Item -> ADO.NET Entity Data Model

The next steps are rather obvious, and Global.asax's comments give the clue
how to make the application to work.

But I can't get some more information on this type of projects. Yes, I can
investigate them but I'd prefer to have some ready to use descriptions. 

Can't find them online on MSDN....

I have just got this link, which looks interesting:

http://channel9.msdn.com/posts/matthijs/Fastest-To-Market-RAD-Web-Applicatio
ns-with-ASPNET-Dynamic-Data-and-Entity-Framework/

It's a 1+ hour video...

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 7:44 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil

No, not me. But how did you get started on this having no info??

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 20-08-2009 17:38 >>>
Hi All,

I'm currently working on a project where I use Dynamic Data Entities Web
Applications - DDEWA-(VS2008 SP1).

I have tried to search Google and Bing to find some information on DDEWA but
failed.

Do you have any useful links on DDEWA?

Thank you.

--
Shamil



_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4351 (20090820) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru


 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4353 (20090820) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 



From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Thu Aug 20 15:00:59 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 00:00:59 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications
In-Reply-To: <010a01ca21cb$9c846340$d58d29c0$@spb.ru>
References: <sa8d943d.049@cactus.dk> <010a01ca21cb$9c846340$d58d29c0$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <010b01ca21d0$f1667ba0$d43372e0$@spb.ru>

Hi All,

Here is the info from MSDN on the subject:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc488545.aspx


--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil
Salakhetdinov
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 11:23 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Gustav,

Thank you for the link - he parts 1 to 6 give similar to the channel9
presentation information - I watched the latter, it's a bit hectic but
useful to get general idea what Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications are
and how to customize them.

I currently plan to use Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications for initial
data entry/edit for my customer application - it works well when datamodel
is ready - just generate ASP.NET application.

I also wanted to find a way to somehow "grab" generated .aspx pages to use
them in developing custom .aspx webforms/pages: not sure yet how to do that
but it should be possible I hope as they obviously(?) generate .aspx pages
on-the-fly, and there could be a way to grab generated .aspx page before
it's getting rendered on server side...

I currently do not plan to use Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications
customization features.

Thank you.

--
Shamil 

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 8:22 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil

How about this, part 1 of 5:

http://www.c-sharpcorner.com/UploadFile/satisharveti/DynamicWebappln10115200
9023618AM/DynamicWebappln1.aspx 

Pretty basic and few illustrations only but still something.

Will see if I can find one hour for the video ...

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 20-08-2009 18:06 >>>
Hi Gustav,

VS2008 SP1: 

1. Solution: Add: New Project -> Dynamic Data Entities Web Application...
2. Project: Add: New Item -> ADO.NET Entity Data Model

The next steps are rather obvious, and Global.asax's comments give the clue
how to make the application to work.

But I can't get some more information on this type of projects. Yes, I can
investigate them but I'd prefer to have some ready to use descriptions. 

Can't find them online on MSDN....

I have just got this link, which looks interesting:

http://channel9.msdn.com/posts/matthijs/Fastest-To-Market-RAD-Web-Applicatio
ns-with-ASPNET-Dynamic-Data-and-Entity-Framework/

It's a 1+ hour video...

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 7:44 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil

No, not me. But how did you get started on this having no info??

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 20-08-2009 17:38 >>>
Hi All,

I'm currently working on a project where I use Dynamic Data Entities Web
Applications - DDEWA-(VS2008 SP1).

I have tried to search Google and Bing to find some information on DDEWA but
failed.

Do you have any useful links on DDEWA?

Thank you.

--
Shamil



_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4351 (20090820) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru


 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4353 (20090820) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 

_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


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The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru


 

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The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 



From cfoust at infostatsystems.com  Thu Aug 20 17:37:24 2009
From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 15:37:24 -0700
Subject: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications
In-Reply-To: <00fd01ca21b0$2a612250$7f2366f0$@spb.ru>
References: <sa8d8b73.048@cactus.dk> <00fd01ca21b0$2a612250$7f2366f0$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <F55048AF7E974F429BB24597D7355EEABFAD70@INFOSERVER04.infostat.local>

Our project manager warned us about dynamic data entities and the MS
entity model.  No personal experience and he isn't a developer, so he's
talking about his previous job.

Charlotte Foust 

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil
Salakhetdinov
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 9:06 AM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Gustav,

VS2008 SP1: 

1. Solution: Add: New Project -> Dynamic Data Entities Web
Application...
2. Project: Add: New Item -> ADO.NET Entity Data Model

The next steps are rather obvious, and Global.asax's comments give the
clue how to make the application to work.

But I can't get some more information on this type of projects. Yes, I
can investigate them but I'd prefer to have some ready to use
descriptions. 

Can't find them online on MSDN....

I have just got this link, which looks interesting:

http://channel9.msdn.com/posts/matthijs/Fastest-To-Market-RAD-Web-Applic
atio
ns-with-ASPNET-Dynamic-Data-and-Entity-Framework/

It's a 1+ hour video...

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 7:44 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil

No, not me. But how did you get started on this having no info??

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 20-08-2009 17:38 >>>
Hi All,

I'm currently working on a project where I use Dynamic Data Entities Web
Applications - DDEWA-(VS2008 SP1).

I have tried to search Google and Bing to find some information on DDEWA
but failed.

Do you have any useful links on DDEWA?

Thank you.

--
Shamil



_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
signature database 4351 (20090820) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru


 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
signature database 4351 (20090820) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 

_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com




From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Fri Aug 21 02:57:30 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 11:57:30 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications
In-Reply-To: <F55048AF7E974F429BB24597D7355EEABFAD70@INFOSERVER04.infostat.local>
References: <sa8d8b73.048@cactus.dk> <00fd01ca21b0$2a612250$7f2366f0$@spb.ru>
	<F55048AF7E974F429BB24597D7355EEABFAD70@INFOSERVER04.infostat.local>
Message-ID: <012301ca2235$0a1e7620$1e5b6260$@spb.ru>

Hi Charlotte --

Thank you for your information.

As I noted I currently do not plan to use dynamic data entities web
applications in production but only to verify the data model design, to give
to customers/users "working model" of some of their business areas, to
prepare lookup/sample/test data: I found it very useful -  I have just
developed rather complicated data model for my customer project, clicked
several times my mouse, made a few selections, typed a few chars - and
voila' I can enter data, navigate all tables etc.

Would that be possible to get known from your project manager what are the
causes of their warnings about dynamic data entities? - I think that would
be very useful for everybody here to know about their experience to not
"step on rakes" as we say here.

BTW, customization features provided by dynamic data entities web
applications are also rather useful to implement something like "working,
real life environment simulating specification": I have got only glanced
those customization features and I have found they can be used at least to:

- develop/simulate/test some kinds of (simple) business rules/checks used
during data entry/edit;
- develop almost ready to use in ASP.NET production environment ASP.NET
custom controls.

There should be more useful features I'm quite sure.

And once again what is very important is that you can give "working model"
for your customers/users almost immediately after/during the talks with
them, they can play with it, they can get "instant fixes" for it etc. I have
checked and AFAIS ADO.NET Entity Data Model can be quickly regenerated
within VS2008 when source DB changes, and such regeneration preserves custom
edits of ADO.NET Entity Data Model objects. Good stuff. Only positive
experience so far.

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 2:37 AM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Our project manager warned us about dynamic data entities and the MS
entity model.  No personal experience and he isn't a developer, so he's
talking about his previous job.

Charlotte Foust 

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil
Salakhetdinov
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 9:06 AM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Gustav,

VS2008 SP1: 

1. Solution: Add: New Project -> Dynamic Data Entities Web
Application...
2. Project: Add: New Item -> ADO.NET Entity Data Model

The next steps are rather obvious, and Global.asax's comments give the
clue how to make the application to work.

But I can't get some more information on this type of projects. Yes, I
can investigate them but I'd prefer to have some ready to use
descriptions. 

Can't find them online on MSDN....

I have just got this link, which looks interesting:

http://channel9.msdn.com/posts/matthijs/Fastest-To-Market-RAD-Web-Applic
atio
ns-with-ASPNET-Dynamic-Data-and-Entity-Framework/

It's a 1+ hour video...

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 7:44 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil

No, not me. But how did you get started on this having no info??

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 20-08-2009 17:38 >>>
Hi All,

I'm currently working on a project where I use Dynamic Data Entities Web
Applications - DDEWA-(VS2008 SP1).

I have tried to search Google and Bing to find some information on DDEWA
but failed.

Do you have any useful links on DDEWA?

Thank you.

--
Shamil



 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4353 (20090820) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 



From Gustav at cactus.dk  Fri Aug 21 05:26:40 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 12:26:40 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications
Message-ID: <sa8e928f.060@cactus.dk>

Hi Shamil and Charlotte

I watched that video - some challenge due to the awful soundtrack - and my impression is that this dynamic data entities web is useful only for creating an interface to the complete table schema - which you hardly never use (I haven't) except for the example Shamil describes where you wish to present the full schema as well as the data content and even offer to edit this at close to zero efforts. I could imagine some kind of monitoring or admin/techie interface built this way.

For any other purpose a lot of customizing is needed which - though quite powerful, so it seems - for a decent app will take longer than building the app from scratch I guess. 

So - as I see it - this technique has its uses but app development is not on of these.

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 09:57 >>>
Hi Charlotte --

Thank you for your information.

As I noted I currently do not plan to use dynamic data entities web
applications in production but only to verify the data model design, to give
to customers/users "working model" of some of their business areas, to
prepare lookup/sample/test data: I found it very useful -  I have just
developed rather complicated data model for my customer project, clicked
several times my mouse, made a few selections, typed a few chars - and
voila' I can enter data, navigate all tables etc.

Would that be possible to get known from your project manager what are the
causes of their warnings about dynamic data entities? - I think that would
be very useful for everybody here to know about their experience to not
"step on rakes" as we say here.

BTW, customization features provided by dynamic data entities web
applications are also rather useful to implement something like "working,
real life environment simulating specification": I have got only glanced
those customization features and I have found they can be used at least to:

- develop/simulate/test some kinds of (simple) business rules/checks used during data entry/edit;
- develop almost ready to use in ASP.NET production environment ASP.NET custom controls.

There should be more useful features I'm quite sure.

And once again what is very important is that you can give "working model"
for your customers/users almost immediately after/during the talks with
them, they can play with it, they can get "instant fixes" for it etc. I have
checked and AFAIS ADO.NET Entity Data Model can be quickly regenerated
within VS2008 when source DB changes, and such regeneration preserves custom
edits of ADO.NET Entity Data Model objects. Good stuff. Only positive
experience so far.

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 2:37 AM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Our project manager warned us about dynamic data entities and the MS entity model.  No personal experience and he isn't a developer, so he's talking about his previous job.

Charlotte Foust 

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil
Salakhetdinov
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 9:06 AM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Gustav,

VS2008 SP1: 

1. Solution: Add: New Project -> Dynamic Data Entities Web Application...
2. Project: Add: New Item -> ADO.NET Entity Data Model

The next steps are rather obvious, and Global.asax's comments give the clue how to make the application to work.

But I can't get some more information on this type of projects. Yes, I can investigate them but I'd prefer to have some ready to use descriptions. 

Can't find them online on MSDN....

I have just got this link, which looks interesting:

http://channel9.msdn.com/posts/matthijs/Fastest-To-Market-RAD-Web-Applications-with-ASPNET-Dynamic-Data-and-Entity-Framework/

It's a 1+ hour video...

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 7:44 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil

No, not me. But how did you get started on this having no info??

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 20-08-2009 17:38 >>>
Hi All,

I'm currently working on a project where I use Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications - DDEWA-(VS2008 SP1).

I have tried to search Google and Bing to find some information on DDEWA but failed.

Do you have any useful links on DDEWA?

Thank you.

--
Shamil




From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Fri Aug 21 06:18:59 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 15:18:59 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications
In-Reply-To: <sa8e928f.060@cactus.dk>
References: <sa8e928f.060@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <013301ca2251$2f876c20$8e964460$@spb.ru>

Hi Gustav,

Yes, it takes "close to zero efforts" (~1 minute) to have a "web
application" for this ADO.NET entity model

http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/temp/model.jpg

which in turn was generated from MS SQL 2005 database.

<<<
...this technique has its uses but app development is not one of these...
>>>
Gustav, let me disagree with that your statement.

First of all because (sample) and lookup data entry/edit is in fact part of
our everyday real life practice of application development.

Second, because Dynamic Data Entity Web Applications (DDEWA) do help
developers to verify their data modeling decisions by "effortlessly" giving
"working models" in hands of (power-)users, and when users/developers find
there are some mistakes in those decisions then DDEWA help to quickly fix
those mistakes (as you can see from referred here video you have to just
redeploy your corrected db and corresponding .edmx file and then refresh
your browser - and you'll get the new version "up & running". This practice
of verifying data modeling decisions in real life environment is also our
everyday practice but it usually takes much more efforts when done without
DDEWA. 

Third, because as I noted you can prepare within DDEWA ready to use in real
apps "code blocks" (.ascx controls etc.) while "playing with" DDEWA (again
as you can see no need to rebuild/restart the application - just refresh
your browser - well, that is a consequence of ASP.NET technology used for
DDEWA)

Fourth, as we talked here before, ADO.NET Entity Data Model will allow in
the (near) future to generate actual database models from ADO.NET Entity
models - wouldn't that become soon our everyday development practice?
(Imagine you start from use cases/user stories, develop customs classes and
business functionality based on ADO.NET Entity objects, develop unit tests,
then generate database model, develop integration tests, generate/customize
application interface... - and you're done. (of course I'm simplifying here
the real picture but IMO mainstream direction is presented correctly?))

Fifth, as we can see DDEWA user interface is generated from ADO.NET Entity
Model and this model (which is currently in the referred above case is
simply generated from database model) can be made having "Super-Entities"
modeling user interfaces' underplaying data, these "Super-Entities" can have
relations used by DDEWA to navigate between them... - IOW this is a way to
simulate real life apps user interfaces and navigation, and then "just add"
a mapping from "Super-Entities" to database entities...

...

DDEWA looks here very challenging and in the same time helpful to our
everyday development practices, not a "silver bullet" of course as we're
getting more and more complicated business tasks to automate but they
(DDEWA) promise to get out "yet another routine everyday work" from the
shoulders of developers...

Thank you.

--
Shamil 

P.S. The idea of DDEWA to generate user interface doesn't look original - we
have seen many "wizard tools" like that (I have even participated in
developing tools like that for different platforms, did you?) - but
implementation of this idea by MS folks and the ways to (re-)use this
implementation for real life apps development look very powerful, useful and
challenging from here. My five stars (*****) to MS DDEWA technology
developers.

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 2:27 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil and Charlotte

I watched that video - some challenge due to the awful soundtrack - and my
impression is that this dynamic data entities web is useful only for
creating an interface to the complete table schema - which you hardly never
use (I haven't) except for the example Shamil describes where you wish to
present the full schema as well as the data content and even offer to edit
this at close to zero efforts. I could imagine some kind of monitoring or
admin/techie interface built this way.

For any other purpose a lot of customizing is needed which - though quite
powerful, so it seems - for a decent app will take longer than building the
app from scratch I guess. 

So - as I see it - this technique has its uses but app development is not on
of these.

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 09:57 >>>
Hi Charlotte --

Thank you for your information.

As I noted I currently do not plan to use dynamic data entities web
applications in production but only to verify the data model design, to give
to customers/users "working model" of some of their business areas, to
prepare lookup/sample/test data: I found it very useful -  I have just
developed rather complicated data model for my customer project, clicked
several times my mouse, made a few selections, typed a few chars - and
voila' I can enter data, navigate all tables etc.

Would that be possible to get known from your project manager what are the
causes of their warnings about dynamic data entities? - I think that would
be very useful for everybody here to know about their experience to not
"step on rakes" as we say here.

BTW, customization features provided by dynamic data entities web
applications are also rather useful to implement something like "working,
real life environment simulating specification": I have got only glanced
those customization features and I have found they can be used at least to:

- develop/simulate/test some kinds of (simple) business rules/checks used
during data entry/edit;
- develop almost ready to use in ASP.NET production environment ASP.NET
custom controls.

There should be more useful features I'm quite sure.

And once again what is very important is that you can give "working model"
for your customers/users almost immediately after/during the talks with
them, they can play with it, they can get "instant fixes" for it etc. I have
checked and AFAIS ADO.NET Entity Data Model can be quickly regenerated
within VS2008 when source DB changes, and such regeneration preserves custom
edits of ADO.NET Entity Data Model objects. Good stuff. Only positive
experience so far.

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 2:37 AM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Our project manager warned us about dynamic data entities and the MS entity
model.  No personal experience and he isn't a developer, so he's talking
about his previous job.

Charlotte Foust 

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil
Salakhetdinov
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 9:06 AM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Gustav,

VS2008 SP1: 

1. Solution: Add: New Project -> Dynamic Data Entities Web Application...
2. Project: Add: New Item -> ADO.NET Entity Data Model

The next steps are rather obvious, and Global.asax's comments give the clue
how to make the application to work.

But I can't get some more information on this type of projects. Yes, I can
investigate them but I'd prefer to have some ready to use descriptions. 

Can't find them online on MSDN....

I have just got this link, which looks interesting:

http://channel9.msdn.com/posts/matthijs/Fastest-To-Market-RAD-Web-Applicatio
ns-with-ASPNET-Dynamic-Data-and-Entity-Framework/

It's a 1+ hour video...

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 7:44 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil

No, not me. But how did you get started on this having no info??

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 20-08-2009 17:38 >>>
Hi All,

I'm currently working on a project where I use Dynamic Data Entities Web
Applications - DDEWA-(VS2008 SP1).

I have tried to search Google and Bing to find some information on DDEWA but
failed.

Do you have any useful links on DDEWA?

Thank you.

--
Shamil






From Gustav at cactus.dk  Fri Aug 21 07:44:57 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:44:57 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications
Message-ID: <sa8eb310.072@cactus.dk>

Hi Shamil

My comments were not on the ADO.NET Entity Data Model which I find very promising.

Your example of a "superuser" having access to the schema and full (test) data is what I meant with a admin/techie app which I believe can be useful - only have I never met a client which had much more than just a sense of what the database is about.

I agree with you that dynamic data entities web tool seems to be very well engineered.

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 13:18 >>>
Hi Gustav,

Yes, it takes "close to zero efforts" (~1 minute) to have a "web
application" for this ADO.NET entity model

http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/temp/model.jpg 

which in turn was generated from MS SQL 2005 database.

<<<
...this technique has its uses but app development is not one of these...
>>>
Gustav, let me disagree with that your statement.

First of all because (sample) and lookup data entry/edit is in fact part of
our everyday real life practice of application development.

Second, because Dynamic Data Entity Web Applications (DDEWA) do help
developers to verify their data modeling decisions by "effortlessly" giving
"working models" in hands of (power-)users, and when users/developers find
there are some mistakes in those decisions then DDEWA help to quickly fix
those mistakes (as you can see from referred here video you have to just
redeploy your corrected db and corresponding .edmx file and then refresh
your browser - and you'll get the new version "up & running". This practice
of verifying data modeling decisions in real life environment is also our
everyday practice but it usually takes much more efforts when done without
DDEWA. 

Third, because as I noted you can prepare within DDEWA ready to use in real
apps "code blocks" (.ascx controls etc.) while "playing with" DDEWA (again
as you can see no need to rebuild/restart the application - just refresh
your browser - well, that is a consequence of ASP.NET technology used for
DDEWA)

Fourth, as we talked here before, ADO.NET Entity Data Model will allow in
the (near) future to generate actual database models from ADO.NET Entity
models - wouldn't that become soon our everyday development practice?
(Imagine you start from use cases/user stories, develop customs classes and
business functionality based on ADO.NET Entity objects, develop unit tests,
then generate database model, develop integration tests, generate/customize
application interface... - and you're done. (of course I'm simplifying here
the real picture but IMO mainstream direction is presented correctly?))

Fifth, as we can see DDEWA user interface is generated from ADO.NET Entity
Model and this model (which is currently in the referred above case is
simply generated from database model) can be made having "Super-Entities"
modeling user interfaces' underplaying data, these "Super-Entities" can have
relations used by DDEWA to navigate between them... - IOW this is a way to
simulate real life apps user interfaces and navigation, and then "just add"
a mapping from "Super-Entities" to database entities...

...

DDEWA looks here very challenging and in the same time helpful to our
everyday development practices, not a "silver bullet" of course as we're
getting more and more complicated business tasks to automate but they
(DDEWA) promise to get out "yet another routine everyday work" from the
shoulders of developers...

Thank you.

--
Shamil 

P.S. The idea of DDEWA to generate user interface doesn't look original - we
have seen many "wizard tools" like that (I have even participated in
developing tools like that for different platforms, did you?) - but
implementation of this idea by MS folks and the ways to (re-)use this
implementation for real life apps development look very powerful, useful and
challenging from here. My five stars (*****) to MS DDEWA technology
developers.

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 2:27 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil and Charlotte

I watched that video - some challenge due to the awful soundtrack - and my
impression is that this dynamic data entities web is useful only for
creating an interface to the complete table schema - which you hardly never
use (I haven't) except for the example Shamil describes where you wish to
present the full schema as well as the data content and even offer to edit
this at close to zero efforts. I could imagine some kind of monitoring or
admin/techie interface built this way.

For any other purpose a lot of customizing is needed which - though quite
powerful, so it seems - for a decent app will take longer than building the
app from scratch I guess. 

So - as I see it - this technique has its uses but app development is not on
of these.

/gustav




From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Fri Aug 21 11:07:59 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 20:07:59 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications
In-Reply-To: <sa8eb310.072@cactus.dk>
References: <sa8eb310.072@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <014301ca2279$8fc9e180$af5da480$@spb.ru>

Hi Gustav --

Yes, I do know that you find ADO.NET Entity Data Model very promising.

And I only wanted to note that I find DDEWA also very promising to perform
quite some routine work we and our customers/"super-users" are doing
manually nowadays.

BTW, as far as I see/can guess DDEWA are implemented using very similar to
ASP.NET MVC Framework approach: I mean they seems to be using "some tricks"
on top of ASP.NET engine to generate on-the-fly ASP.NET controls and web
forms and "feed" ASP.NET engine using these generated web forms/controls. I
can be wrong. Just guessing...

I will continue my R&D with DDEWA and if I find something interesting I will
post this information here.

BTW, I'm currently trying to customize the order of the list of the tables
shown on the first page (Default.aspx) of my DDEWA, any ideas?

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 4:45 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil

My comments were not on the ADO.NET Entity Data Model which I find very
promising.

Your example of a "superuser" having access to the schema and full (test)
data is what I meant with a admin/techie app which I believe can be useful -
only have I never met a client which had much more than just a sense of what
the database is about.

I agree with you that dynamic data entities web tool seems to be very well
engineered.

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 13:18 >>>
Hi Gustav,

Yes, it takes "close to zero efforts" (~1 minute) to have a "web
application" for this ADO.NET entity model

http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/temp/model.jpg 

which in turn was generated from MS SQL 2005 database.

<<<
...this technique has its uses but app development is not one of these...
>>>
Gustav, let me disagree with that your statement.

First of all because (sample) and lookup data entry/edit is in fact part of
our everyday real life practice of application development.

Second, because Dynamic Data Entity Web Applications (DDEWA) do help
developers to verify their data modeling decisions by "effortlessly" giving
"working models" in hands of (power-)users, and when users/developers find
there are some mistakes in those decisions then DDEWA help to quickly fix
those mistakes (as you can see from referred here video you have to just
redeploy your corrected db and corresponding .edmx file and then refresh
your browser - and you'll get the new version "up & running". This practice
of verifying data modeling decisions in real life environment is also our
everyday practice but it usually takes much more efforts when done without
DDEWA. 

Third, because as I noted you can prepare within DDEWA ready to use in real
apps "code blocks" (.ascx controls etc.) while "playing with" DDEWA (again
as you can see no need to rebuild/restart the application - just refresh
your browser - well, that is a consequence of ASP.NET technology used for
DDEWA)

Fourth, as we talked here before, ADO.NET Entity Data Model will allow in
the (near) future to generate actual database models from ADO.NET Entity
models - wouldn't that become soon our everyday development practice?
(Imagine you start from use cases/user stories, develop customs classes and
business functionality based on ADO.NET Entity objects, develop unit tests,
then generate database model, develop integration tests, generate/customize
application interface... - and you're done. (of course I'm simplifying here
the real picture but IMO mainstream direction is presented correctly?))

Fifth, as we can see DDEWA user interface is generated from ADO.NET Entity
Model and this model (which is currently in the referred above case is
simply generated from database model) can be made having "Super-Entities"
modeling user interfaces' underplaying data, these "Super-Entities" can have
relations used by DDEWA to navigate between them... - IOW this is a way to
simulate real life apps user interfaces and navigation, and then "just add"
a mapping from "Super-Entities" to database entities...

...

DDEWA looks here very challenging and in the same time helpful to our
everyday development practices, not a "silver bullet" of course as we're
getting more and more complicated business tasks to automate but they
(DDEWA) promise to get out "yet another routine everyday work" from the
shoulders of developers...

Thank you.

--
Shamil 

P.S. The idea of DDEWA to generate user interface doesn't look original - we
have seen many "wizard tools" like that (I have even participated in
developing tools like that for different platforms, did you?) - but
implementation of this idea by MS folks and the ways to (re-)use this
implementation for real life apps development look very powerful, useful and
challenging from here. My five stars (*****) to MS DDEWA technology
developers.

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 2:27 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil and Charlotte

I watched that video - some challenge due to the awful soundtrack - and my
impression is that this dynamic data entities web is useful only for
creating an interface to the complete table schema - which you hardly never
use (I haven't) except for the example Shamil describes where you wish to
present the full schema as well as the data content and even offer to edit
this at close to zero efforts. I could imagine some kind of monitoring or
admin/techie interface built this way.

For any other purpose a lot of customizing is needed which - though quite
powerful, so it seems - for a decent app will take longer than building the
app from scratch I guess. 

So - as I see it - this technique has its uses but app development is not on
of these.

/gustav


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From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Fri Aug 21 14:57:10 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 23:57:10 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Click-Once stopped to work on my Vista PC....
Message-ID: <016301ca2299$93cf56a0$bb6e03e0$@spb.ru>

Hi All,

 

If you remember I have had a posting on the subject issue here - the issue
was caused by the fact that .application extension did get Notepad as
default edit program - when you set default program back to "Application
Deployment Support Library" then Click-Once does start to work well again.
The answer came from StackOverflow. 

 

Thank you.

 

--

Shamil



From Gustav at cactus.dk  Fri Aug 21 16:25:57 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 23:25:57 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications
Message-ID: <sa8f2d25.082@cactus.dk>

Hi Shamil

Yes, please post your findings please.

As for the order of the tables, isn't it just based on the enumeration in SQL Server?

/gustav

>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 18:07 >>>
Hi Gustav --

Yes, I do know that you find ADO.NET Entity Data Model very promising.

And I only wanted to note that I find DDEWA also very promising to perform
quite some routine work we and our customers/"super-users" are doing
manually nowadays.

BTW, as far as I see/can guess DDEWA are implemented using very similar to
ASP.NET MVC Framework approach: I mean they seems to be using "some tricks"
on top of ASP.NET engine to generate on-the-fly ASP.NET controls and web
forms and "feed" ASP.NET engine using these generated web forms/controls. I
can be wrong. Just guessing...

I will continue my R&D with DDEWA and if I find something interesting I will
post this information here.

BTW, I'm currently trying to customize the order of the list of the tables
shown on the first page (Default.aspx) of my DDEWA, any ideas?

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 4:45 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil

My comments were not on the ADO.NET Entity Data Model which I find very
promising.

Your example of a "superuser" having access to the schema and full (test)
data is what I meant with a admin/techie app which I believe can be useful -
only have I never met a client which had much more than just a sense of what
the database is about.

I agree with you that dynamic data entities web tool seems to be very well
engineered.

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 13:18 >>>
Hi Gustav,

Yes, it takes "close to zero efforts" (~1 minute) to have a "web
application" for this ADO.NET entity model

http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/temp/model.jpg 

which in turn was generated from MS SQL 2005 database.

<<<
...this technique has its uses but app development is not one of these...
>>>
Gustav, let me disagree with that your statement.

First of all because (sample) and lookup data entry/edit is in fact part of
our everyday real life practice of application development.

Second, because Dynamic Data Entity Web Applications (DDEWA) do help
developers to verify their data modeling decisions by "effortlessly" giving
"working models" in hands of (power-)users, and when users/developers find
there are some mistakes in those decisions then DDEWA help to quickly fix
those mistakes (as you can see from referred here video you have to just
redeploy your corrected db and corresponding .edmx file and then refresh
your browser - and you'll get the new version "up & running". This practice
of verifying data modeling decisions in real life environment is also our
everyday practice but it usually takes much more efforts when done without
DDEWA. 

Third, because as I noted you can prepare within DDEWA ready to use in real
apps "code blocks" (.ascx controls etc.) while "playing with" DDEWA (again
as you can see no need to rebuild/restart the application - just refresh
your browser - well, that is a consequence of ASP.NET technology used for
DDEWA)

Fourth, as we talked here before, ADO.NET Entity Data Model will allow in
the (near) future to generate actual database models from ADO.NET Entity
models - wouldn't that become soon our everyday development practice?
(Imagine you start from use cases/user stories, develop customs classes and
business functionality based on ADO.NET Entity objects, develop unit tests,
then generate database model, develop integration tests, generate/customize
application interface... - and you're done. (of course I'm simplifying here
the real picture but IMO mainstream direction is presented correctly?))

Fifth, as we can see DDEWA user interface is generated from ADO.NET Entity
Model and this model (which is currently in the referred above case is
simply generated from database model) can be made having "Super-Entities"
modeling user interfaces' underplaying data, these "Super-Entities" can have
relations used by DDEWA to navigate between them... - IOW this is a way to
simulate real life apps user interfaces and navigation, and then "just add"
a mapping from "Super-Entities" to database entities...

...

DDEWA looks here very challenging and in the same time helpful to our
everyday development practices, not a "silver bullet" of course as we're
getting more and more complicated business tasks to automate but they
(DDEWA) promise to get out "yet another routine everyday work" from the
shoulders of developers...

Thank you.

--
Shamil 

P.S. The idea of DDEWA to generate user interface doesn't look original - we
have seen many "wizard tools" like that (I have even participated in
developing tools like that for different platforms, did you?) - but
implementation of this idea by MS folks and the ways to (re-)use this
implementation for real life apps development look very powerful, useful and
challenging from here. My five stars (*****) to MS DDEWA technology
developers.

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 2:27 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil and Charlotte

I watched that video - some challenge due to the awful soundtrack - and my
impression is that this dynamic data entities web is useful only for
creating an interface to the complete table schema - which you hardly never
use (I haven't) except for the example Shamil describes where you wish to
present the full schema as well as the data content and even offer to edit
this at close to zero efforts. I could imagine some kind of monitoring or
admin/techie interface built this way.

For any other purpose a lot of customizing is needed which - though quite
powerful, so it seems - for a decent app will take longer than building the
app from scratch I guess. 

So - as I see it - this technique has its uses but app development is not on
of these.

/gustav



From Gustav at cactus.dk  Fri Aug 21 16:28:24 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 23:28:24 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] Click-Once stopped to work on my Vista PC....
Message-ID: <sa8f2dbc.083@cactus.dk>

Hi Shamil

No, I forgot about that posting. However, I wouldn't have thought of a solution like the one you describe. Thanks for the tip (or warning)!

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 21:57 >>>
Hi All,

If you remember I have had a posting on the subject issue here - the issue
was caused by the fact that .application extension did get Notepad as
default edit program - when you set default program back to "Application
Deployment Support Library" then Click-Once does start to work well again.
The answer came from StackOverflow. 

Thank you.

--
Shamil





From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Fri Aug 21 23:04:26 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 00:04:26 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Click-Once stopped to work on my Vista PC....
In-Reply-To: <sa8f2dbc.083@cactus.dk>
References: <sa8f2dbc.083@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <4A8F6E4A.8080107@colbyconsulting.com>

So you guys are using VB.Net express?  Or C# express?

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi Shamil
> 
> No, I forgot about that posting. However, I wouldn't have thought of a solution like the one you describe. Thanks for the tip (or warning)!
> 
> /gustav
> 
> 
>>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 21:57 >>>
> Hi All,
> 
> If you remember I have had a posting on the subject issue here - the issue
> was caused by the fact that .application extension did get Notepad as
> default edit program - when you set default program back to "Application
> Deployment Support Library" then Click-Once does start to work well again.
> The answer came from StackOverflow. 
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> --
> Shamil
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 


From Gustav at cactus.dk  Sat Aug 22 02:28:48 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 09:28:48 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] Click-Once stopped to work on my Vista PC....
Message-ID: <sa8fba66.084@cactus.dk>

Hi John

No, I use VS2008 Standard Edition. Comes with the MAPS (Microsoft Action Pack Subscription) - if you pass a tiny test as described in earlier postings.

/gustav

>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 22-08-2009 06:04 >>>
So you guys are using VB.Net express?  Or C# express?

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com 


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi Shamil
> 
> No, I forgot about that posting. However, I wouldn't have thought of a solution like the one you describe. Thanks for the tip (or warning)!
> 
> /gustav
> 
> 
>>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 21:57 >>>
> Hi All,
> 
> If you remember I have had a posting on the subject issue here - the issue
> was caused by the fact that .application extension did get Notepad as
> default edit program - when you set default program back to "Application
> Deployment Support Library" then Click-Once does start to work well again.
> The answer came from StackOverflow. 
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> --
> Shamil




From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Sat Aug 22 05:14:55 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 14:14:55 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Click-Once stopped to work on my Vista PC....
In-Reply-To: <sa8f2dbc.083@cactus.dk>
References: <sa8f2dbc.083@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <001a01ca2311$66fddd90$34f998b0$@spb.ru>

Hi Gustav,

Yes, that solution, which came from StackOverflow, is awesome as one
developer noted there: if you have just get opened any .application-type
file in notepad, and you'll have "use this application as default" checkbox
checked - and it's checked by default, and nobody usually unchecks it - then
you get this weird Click-Once setup behavior when it starts correctly but
then informs you that you have improper version of .NET Framework
installed... and all you need is in fact just to set back default program
for .application type files...

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 1:28 AM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Click-Once stopped to work on my Vista PC....

Hi Shamil

No, I forgot about that posting. However, I wouldn't have thought of a
solution like the one you describe. Thanks for the tip (or warning)!

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 21:57 >>>
Hi All,

If you remember I have had a posting on the subject issue here - the issue
was caused by the fact that .application extension did get Notepad as
default edit program - when you set default program back to "Application
Deployment Support Library" then Click-Once does start to work well again.
The answer came from StackOverflow. 

Thank you.

--
Shamil



_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4357 (20090821) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru


 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4357 (20090821) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 



From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Sat Aug 22 05:14:55 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 14:14:55 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Click-Once stopped to work on my Vista PC....
In-Reply-To: <4A8F6E4A.8080107@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <sa8f2dbc.083@cactus.dk> <4A8F6E4A.8080107@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <001b01ca2311$68756260$39602720$@spb.ru>

Hi John,

No, I use VS2008 Professional.

Click-Once is one of the methods of .NET Framework applications setup.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 8:04 AM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Click-Once stopped to work on my Vista PC....

So you guys are using VB.Net express?  Or C# express?

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi Shamil
> 
> No, I forgot about that posting. However, I wouldn't have thought of a
solution like the one you describe. Thanks for the tip (or warning)!
> 
> /gustav
> 
> 
>>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 21:57 >>>
> Hi All,
> 
> If you remember I have had a posting on the subject issue here - the issue
> was caused by the fact that .application extension did get Notepad as
> default edit program - when you set default program back to "Application
> Deployment Support Library" then Click-Once does start to work well again.
> The answer came from StackOverflow. 
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> --
> Shamil
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 
_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4357 (20090821) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru


 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4357 (20090821) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 



From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Sat Aug 22 05:18:33 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 14:18:33 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications
In-Reply-To: <sa8f2d25.082@cactus.dk>
References: <sa8f2d25.082@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <001c01ca2311$e8cf5b00$ba6e1100$@spb.ru>

Hi Gustav,

I gave got one issue with DDEWA already - one of the tables "doesn't want"
to be opened/viewed - ASP.NET runtime error is reported. No clue yet how to
workaround this issue. Isn't that one of the causes Charlotte warned about
referring to her manager experience in another company?

The tables are ordered alphabetically and I wanted to get them ordered
special custom way.

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 1:26 AM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil

Yes, please post your findings please.

As for the order of the tables, isn't it just based on the enumeration in
SQL Server?

/gustav

>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 18:07 >>>
Hi Gustav --

Yes, I do know that you find ADO.NET Entity Data Model very promising.

And I only wanted to note that I find DDEWA also very promising to perform
quite some routine work we and our customers/"super-users" are doing
manually nowadays.

BTW, as far as I see/can guess DDEWA are implemented using very similar to
ASP.NET MVC Framework approach: I mean they seems to be using "some tricks"
on top of ASP.NET engine to generate on-the-fly ASP.NET controls and web
forms and "feed" ASP.NET engine using these generated web forms/controls. I
can be wrong. Just guessing...

I will continue my R&D with DDEWA and if I find something interesting I will
post this information here.

BTW, I'm currently trying to customize the order of the list of the tables
shown on the first page (Default.aspx) of my DDEWA, any ideas?

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 4:45 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil

My comments were not on the ADO.NET Entity Data Model which I find very
promising.

Your example of a "superuser" having access to the schema and full (test)
data is what I meant with a admin/techie app which I believe can be useful -
only have I never met a client which had much more than just a sense of what
the database is about.

I agree with you that dynamic data entities web tool seems to be very well
engineered.

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 13:18 >>>
Hi Gustav,

Yes, it takes "close to zero efforts" (~1 minute) to have a "web
application" for this ADO.NET entity model

http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/temp/model.jpg 

which in turn was generated from MS SQL 2005 database.

<<<
...this technique has its uses but app development is not one of these...
>>>
Gustav, let me disagree with that your statement.

First of all because (sample) and lookup data entry/edit is in fact part of
our everyday real life practice of application development.

Second, because Dynamic Data Entity Web Applications (DDEWA) do help
developers to verify their data modeling decisions by "effortlessly" giving
"working models" in hands of (power-)users, and when users/developers find
there are some mistakes in those decisions then DDEWA help to quickly fix
those mistakes (as you can see from referred here video you have to just
redeploy your corrected db and corresponding .edmx file and then refresh
your browser - and you'll get the new version "up & running". This practice
of verifying data modeling decisions in real life environment is also our
everyday practice but it usually takes much more efforts when done without
DDEWA. 

Third, because as I noted you can prepare within DDEWA ready to use in real
apps "code blocks" (.ascx controls etc.) while "playing with" DDEWA (again
as you can see no need to rebuild/restart the application - just refresh
your browser - well, that is a consequence of ASP.NET technology used for
DDEWA)

Fourth, as we talked here before, ADO.NET Entity Data Model will allow in
the (near) future to generate actual database models from ADO.NET Entity
models - wouldn't that become soon our everyday development practice?
(Imagine you start from use cases/user stories, develop customs classes and
business functionality based on ADO.NET Entity objects, develop unit tests,
then generate database model, develop integration tests, generate/customize
application interface... - and you're done. (of course I'm simplifying here
the real picture but IMO mainstream direction is presented correctly?))

Fifth, as we can see DDEWA user interface is generated from ADO.NET Entity
Model and this model (which is currently in the referred above case is
simply generated from database model) can be made having "Super-Entities"
modeling user interfaces' underplaying data, these "Super-Entities" can have
relations used by DDEWA to navigate between them... - IOW this is a way to
simulate real life apps user interfaces and navigation, and then "just add"
a mapping from "Super-Entities" to database entities...

...

DDEWA looks here very challenging and in the same time helpful to our
everyday development practices, not a "silver bullet" of course as we're
getting more and more complicated business tasks to automate but they
(DDEWA) promise to get out "yet another routine everyday work" from the
shoulders of developers...

Thank you.

--
Shamil 

P.S. The idea of DDEWA to generate user interface doesn't look original - we
have seen many "wizard tools" like that (I have even participated in
developing tools like that for different platforms, did you?) - but
implementation of this idea by MS folks and the ways to (re-)use this
implementation for real life apps development look very powerful, useful and
challenging from here. My five stars (*****) to MS DDEWA technology
developers.

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 2:27 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil and Charlotte

I watched that video - some challenge due to the awful soundtrack - and my
impression is that this dynamic data entities web is useful only for
creating an interface to the complete table schema - which you hardly never
use (I haven't) except for the example Shamil describes where you wish to
present the full schema as well as the data content and even offer to edit
this at close to zero efforts. I could imagine some kind of monitoring or
admin/techie interface built this way.

For any other purpose a lot of customizing is needed which - though quite
powerful, so it seems - for a decent app will take longer than building the
app from scratch I guess. 

So - as I see it - this technique has its uses but app development is not on
of these.

/gustav

_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4357 (20090821) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru





From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Sat Aug 22 08:20:09 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 09:20:09 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Click-Once stopped to work on my Vista PC....
In-Reply-To: <sa8fba66.084@cactus.dk>
References: <sa8fba66.084@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <4A8FF089.1010105@colbyconsulting.com>

I was also inquiring about the specific language you guys are using, VB or C#.

So what is the story in terms of compatibility between the express editions and the standard?  I 
know that there are express edition things that won't work in the standard edition (at least for VB) 
but if you don't use those can the code be worked in the standard edition environment.  IOW can a 
project be worked on in both environments.

I own the standard edition but my thought is that the express edition is free.  I know the response 
to your solicitations to work on the projects haven't been overwhelming, but if people do want to 
participate, the cost of the standard edition might be a stopper.  As an example IIRC William uses 
the free editions.

Also is there something in the standard edition that makes it a must have, capabilities that the 
express edition does not have.  Obviously there is SOMETHING.  How about the one click publishing. 
Is that unavailable in the express edition?

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi John
> 
> No, I use VS2008 Standard Edition. Comes with the MAPS (Microsoft Action Pack Subscription) - if you pass a tiny test as described in earlier postings.
> 
> /gustav
> 
>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 22-08-2009 06:04 >>>
> So you guys are using VB.Net express?  Or C# express?
> 
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com 
> 
> 
> Gustav Brock wrote:
>> Hi Shamil
>>
>> No, I forgot about that posting. However, I wouldn't have thought of a solution like the one you describe. Thanks for the tip (or warning)!
>>
>> /gustav
>>
>>
>>>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 21:57 >>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> If you remember I have had a posting on the subject issue here - the issue
>> was caused by the fact that .application extension did get Notepad as
>> default edit program - when you set default program back to "Application
>> Deployment Support Library" then Click-Once does start to work well again.
>> The answer came from StackOverflow. 
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> --
>> Shamil
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 


From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Sat Aug 22 08:40:30 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 09:40:30 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Click-Once stopped to work on my Vista PC....
In-Reply-To: <4A8FF089.1010105@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <sa8fba66.084@cactus.dk> <4A8FF089.1010105@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <4A8FF54E.1090406@colbyconsulting.com>

Never mind, I found a comparison chart.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


jwcolby wrote:
> I was also inquiring about the specific language you guys are using, VB or C#.
> 
> So what is the story in terms of compatibility between the express editions and the standard?  I 
> know that there are express edition things that won't work in the standard edition (at least for VB) 
> but if you don't use those can the code be worked in the standard edition environment.  IOW can a 
> project be worked on in both environments.
> 
> I own the standard edition but my thought is that the express edition is free.  I know the response 
> to your solicitations to work on the projects haven't been overwhelming, but if people do want to 
> participate, the cost of the standard edition might be a stopper.  As an example IIRC William uses 
> the free editions.
> 
> Also is there something in the standard edition that makes it a must have, capabilities that the 
> express edition does not have.  Obviously there is SOMETHING.  How about the one click publishing. 
> Is that unavailable in the express edition?
> 
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com
> 
> 
> Gustav Brock wrote:
>> Hi John
>>
>> No, I use VS2008 Standard Edition. Comes with the MAPS (Microsoft Action Pack Subscription) - if you pass a tiny test as described in earlier postings.
>>
>> /gustav



From Gustav at cactus.dk  Sat Aug 22 16:26:31 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 23:26:31 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] Click-Once stopped to work on my Vista PC....
Message-ID: <sa907eca.091@cactus.dk>

Hi John

C# exclusively. I found the VB.NET syntax too weird, and after having programmed in VBA (Access Basic) for a decade (and a little Pascal and Prolog before that) I decided it was time to learn something new. 

/gustav

>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 22-08-2009 15:20 >>>
I was also inquiring about the specific language you guys are using, VB or C#.





From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Sat Aug 22 16:47:52 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 17:47:52 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] SPAM-LOW: Re: Click-Once stopped to work on my Vista
 PC....
In-Reply-To: <sa907eca.091@cactus.dk>
References: <sa907eca.091@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <4A906788.5020201@colbyconsulting.com>

Thanks for the reply Gustav.

I programmed a uController in C for almost two years from 1996-1997.  I haven't done any C since 
however.  I think I will take the plunge as well.

I did a fair bit of VB.Net about two years ago but now I have to get back into .net.

I actually have an application that I am thinking of doing in .Net.  It could be done in Access but 
it is simple enough to make it a perfect "started app" for getting back into .net,  and it could 
grow big and then having it in .Net could be a real advantage.  Plus it would be sold which means 
distribution.  OneClick distribution is calling me.

;)

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi John
> 
> C# exclusively. I found the VB.NET syntax too weird, and after having programmed in VBA (Access Basic) for a decade (and a little Pascal and Prolog before that) I decided it was time to learn something new. 
> 
> /gustav
> 
>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 22-08-2009 15:20 >>>
> I was also inquiring about the specific language you guys are using, VB or C#.
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 


From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Sat Aug 22 16:52:16 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 01:52:16 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Click-Once stopped to work on my Vista PC....
In-Reply-To: <4A8FF089.1010105@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <sa8fba66.084@cactus.dk> <4A8FF089.1010105@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <002d01ca2372$d225b190$767114b0$@spb.ru>

<<<
Also is there something in the standard edition that makes it a must have,
capabilities that the 
express edition does not have.  Obviously there is SOMETHING.  How about the
one click publishing. 
Is that unavailable in the express edition?
>>>
Hi John,

I don't know - last time I checked - in the beginning of Northwind.NET
project this spring all VS 2008 professional projects were built OK under C#
2008 Express. You can try to download projects from

http://northwind.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=26600

and check if anything will not compile under C# 2008 Express.

VS - higher versions - they provide some more software development
automation features - but that should be it - after all one can develop any
kind of .NET applications using notepad.exe, .NET Framework and MS Build
(from .NET Framework SDK)  (MS Build is not even needed I suppose - AFAIK it
provides some automation of compilation of sources and of building of
executables(I can be wrong here, I don't know all the details on MS Build))
- all are free to download, to use for software development and to
distribute developed apps...

<<<
I was also inquiring about the specific language you guys are using, VB or
C#.
>>>
I prefer C#.
I'd not mind to use VB if somebody will invite me to participate in an
interesting project where VB will be selected to be the main development
language...
I'd be even more interested to participate in an project where IronRuby will
be selected as the main development language (FYI:I currently have 1%
knowledge on Ruby/IronRuby)...

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 5:20 PM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Click-Once stopped to work on my Vista PC....

I was also inquiring about the specific language you guys are using, VB or
C#.

So what is the story in terms of compatibility between the express editions
and the standard?  I 
know that there are express edition things that won't work in the standard
edition (at least for VB) 
but if you don't use those can the code be worked in the standard edition
environment.  IOW can a 
project be worked on in both environments.

I own the standard edition but my thought is that the express edition is
free.  I know the response 
to your solicitations to work on the projects haven't been overwhelming, but
if people do want to 
participate, the cost of the standard edition might be a stopper.  As an
example IIRC William uses 
the free editions.

Also is there something in the standard edition that makes it a must have,
capabilities that the 
express edition does not have.  Obviously there is SOMETHING.  How about the
one click publishing. 
Is that unavailable in the express edition?

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi John
> 
> No, I use VS2008 Standard Edition. Comes with the MAPS (Microsoft Action
Pack Subscription) - if you pass a tiny test as described in earlier
postings.
> 
> /gustav
> 
>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 22-08-2009 06:04 >>>
> So you guys are using VB.Net express?  Or C# express?
> 
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com 
> 
> 
> Gustav Brock wrote:
>> Hi Shamil
>>
>> No, I forgot about that posting. However, I wouldn't have thought of a
solution like the one you describe. Thanks for the tip (or warning)!
>>
>> /gustav
>>
>>
>>>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 21:57 >>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> If you remember I have had a posting on the subject issue here - the
issue
>> was caused by the fact that .application extension did get Notepad as
>> default edit program - when you set default program back to "Application
>> Deployment Support Library" then Click-Once does start to work well
again.
>> The answer came from StackOverflow. 
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> --
>> Shamil
> 
> 

 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4359 (20090822) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 



From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Sun Aug 23 12:46:39 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 21:46:39 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications
In-Reply-To: <001c01ca2311$e8cf5b00$ba6e1100$@spb.ru>
References: <sa8f2d25.082@cactus.dk> <001c01ca2311$e8cf5b00$ba6e1100$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <000601ca2419$ac4a8e30$04dfaa90$@spb.ru>

Hi All,

I have solved mentioned below issue by regenerating ADO.NET Entity Model:
unfortunately that seems to be the only solution now - I'm writing
unfortunately because regeneration forced me to get lost all my manual
edits. Not that a big issue as my edits were mainly "cosmetic" - if to not
count several hours, which I tried to find a workaround, which would allow
me to preserve my "cosmetic" changes...

I have also found that if I try to add new relationships to the source
database and then use DDEWA to get updated only those relationships info in
generated ADO.NET Entity Model then weird compiled errors appear, e.g.:

Error 3007: Problem in Mapping Fragments starting at lines 2291, 2985: Non-
Primary-Key column(s) [RegionId] are being mapped in both fragments to
different conceptual side 
properties - data inconsistency is possible because the corresponding
conceptual side properties can 
be independently modified.

When regenerating ADO.NET Entity Model from scratch these new relationships
do appear properly as associations and my project compilation works OK...

Etc.

All in all I have got my DDEWA working OK but my current "rule of thumb" is
to not touch/edit generated ADO.NET Entity Model to not get into trouble.

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil
Salakhetdinov
Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 2:19 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Gustav,

I gave got one issue with DDEWA already - one of the tables "doesn't want"
to be opened/viewed - ASP.NET runtime error is reported. No clue yet how to
workaround this issue. Isn't that one of the causes Charlotte warned about
referring to her manager experience in another company?

The tables are ordered alphabetically and I wanted to get them ordered
special custom way.

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 1:26 AM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil

Yes, please post your findings please.

As for the order of the tables, isn't it just based on the enumeration in
SQL Server?

/gustav

>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 18:07 >>>
Hi Gustav --

Yes, I do know that you find ADO.NET Entity Data Model very promising.

And I only wanted to note that I find DDEWA also very promising to perform
quite some routine work we and our customers/"super-users" are doing
manually nowadays.

BTW, as far as I see/can guess DDEWA are implemented using very similar to
ASP.NET MVC Framework approach: I mean they seems to be using "some tricks"
on top of ASP.NET engine to generate on-the-fly ASP.NET controls and web
forms and "feed" ASP.NET engine using these generated web forms/controls. I
can be wrong. Just guessing...

I will continue my R&D with DDEWA and if I find something interesting I will
post this information here.

BTW, I'm currently trying to customize the order of the list of the tables
shown on the first page (Default.aspx) of my DDEWA, any ideas?

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 4:45 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil

My comments were not on the ADO.NET Entity Data Model which I find very
promising.

Your example of a "superuser" having access to the schema and full (test)
data is what I meant with a admin/techie app which I believe can be useful -
only have I never met a client which had much more than just a sense of what
the database is about.

I agree with you that dynamic data entities web tool seems to be very well
engineered.

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 13:18 >>>
Hi Gustav,

Yes, it takes "close to zero efforts" (~1 minute) to have a "web
application" for this ADO.NET entity model

http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/temp/model.jpg 

which in turn was generated from MS SQL 2005 database.

<<<
...this technique has its uses but app development is not one of these...
>>>
Gustav, let me disagree with that your statement.

First of all because (sample) and lookup data entry/edit is in fact part of
our everyday real life practice of application development.

Second, because Dynamic Data Entity Web Applications (DDEWA) do help
developers to verify their data modeling decisions by "effortlessly" giving
"working models" in hands of (power-)users, and when users/developers find
there are some mistakes in those decisions then DDEWA help to quickly fix
those mistakes (as you can see from referred here video you have to just
redeploy your corrected db and corresponding .edmx file and then refresh
your browser - and you'll get the new version "up & running". This practice
of verifying data modeling decisions in real life environment is also our
everyday practice but it usually takes much more efforts when done without
DDEWA. 

Third, because as I noted you can prepare within DDEWA ready to use in real
apps "code blocks" (.ascx controls etc.) while "playing with" DDEWA (again
as you can see no need to rebuild/restart the application - just refresh
your browser - well, that is a consequence of ASP.NET technology used for
DDEWA)

Fourth, as we talked here before, ADO.NET Entity Data Model will allow in
the (near) future to generate actual database models from ADO.NET Entity
models - wouldn't that become soon our everyday development practice?
(Imagine you start from use cases/user stories, develop customs classes and
business functionality based on ADO.NET Entity objects, develop unit tests,
then generate database model, develop integration tests, generate/customize
application interface... - and you're done. (of course I'm simplifying here
the real picture but IMO mainstream direction is presented correctly?))

Fifth, as we can see DDEWA user interface is generated from ADO.NET Entity
Model and this model (which is currently in the referred above case is
simply generated from database model) can be made having "Super-Entities"
modeling user interfaces' underplaying data, these "Super-Entities" can have
relations used by DDEWA to navigate between them... - IOW this is a way to
simulate real life apps user interfaces and navigation, and then "just add"
a mapping from "Super-Entities" to database entities...

...

DDEWA looks here very challenging and in the same time helpful to our
everyday development practices, not a "silver bullet" of course as we're
getting more and more complicated business tasks to automate but they
(DDEWA) promise to get out "yet another routine everyday work" from the
shoulders of developers...

Thank you.

--
Shamil 

P.S. The idea of DDEWA to generate user interface doesn't look original - we
have seen many "wizard tools" like that (I have even participated in
developing tools like that for different platforms, did you?) - but
implementation of this idea by MS folks and the ways to (re-)use this
implementation for real life apps development look very powerful, useful and
challenging from here. My five stars (*****) to MS DDEWA technology
developers.

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 2:27 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil and Charlotte

I watched that video - some challenge due to the awful soundtrack - and my
impression is that this dynamic data entities web is useful only for
creating an interface to the complete table schema - which you hardly never
use (I haven't) except for the example Shamil describes where you wish to
present the full schema as well as the data content and even offer to edit
this at close to zero efforts. I could imagine some kind of monitoring or
admin/techie interface built this way.

For any other purpose a lot of customizing is needed which - though quite
powerful, so it seems - for a decent app will take longer than building the
app from scratch I guess. 

So - as I see it - this technique has its uses but app development is not on
of these.

/gustav





From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Sun Aug 23 15:54:31 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 00:54:31 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications
In-Reply-To: <000601ca2419$ac4a8e30$04dfaa90$@spb.ru>
References: <sa8f2d25.082@cactus.dk> <001c01ca2311$e8cf5b00$ba6e1100$@spb.ru>
	<000601ca2419$ac4a8e30$04dfaa90$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <000701ca2433$eaff91b0$c0feb510$@spb.ru>

Hi All,

While trying to move my DDEWA to my ASP.NET hosting site I have again got
some weird error messages: fortunately I have found solution of
StackOverflow:

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/689355/metadataexception-unable-to-load-t
he-specified-metadata-resource

Connection string should start with:

connectionString="metadata=res://*/;

It worked well in my case.

FYI: it could take hours and hours to find the solution by yourself - here
is one example how much time it costed to another developer:

http://forums.asp.net/p/1409590/3082930.aspx

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil
Salakhetdinov
Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 9:47 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi All,

I have solved mentioned below issue by regenerating ADO.NET Entity Model:
unfortunately that seems to be the only solution now - I'm writing
unfortunately because regeneration forced me to get lost all my manual
edits. Not that a big issue as my edits were mainly "cosmetic" - if to not
count several hours, which I tried to find a workaround, which would allow
me to preserve my "cosmetic" changes...

I have also found that if I try to add new relationships to the source
database and then use DDEWA to get updated only those relationships info in
generated ADO.NET Entity Model then weird compiled errors appear, e.g.:

Error 3007: Problem in Mapping Fragments starting at lines 2291, 2985: Non-
Primary-Key column(s) [RegionId] are being mapped in both fragments to
different conceptual side 
properties - data inconsistency is possible because the corresponding
conceptual side properties can 
be independently modified.

When regenerating ADO.NET Entity Model from scratch these new relationships
do appear properly as associations and my project compilation works OK...

Etc.

All in all I have got my DDEWA working OK but my current "rule of thumb" is
to not touch/edit generated ADO.NET Entity Model to not get into trouble.

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil
Salakhetdinov
Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 2:19 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Gustav,

I gave got one issue with DDEWA already - one of the tables "doesn't want"
to be opened/viewed - ASP.NET runtime error is reported. No clue yet how to
workaround this issue. Isn't that one of the causes Charlotte warned about
referring to her manager experience in another company?

The tables are ordered alphabetically and I wanted to get them ordered
special custom way.

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 1:26 AM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil

Yes, please post your findings please.

As for the order of the tables, isn't it just based on the enumeration in
SQL Server?

/gustav

>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 18:07 >>>
Hi Gustav --

Yes, I do know that you find ADO.NET Entity Data Model very promising.

And I only wanted to note that I find DDEWA also very promising to perform
quite some routine work we and our customers/"super-users" are doing
manually nowadays.

BTW, as far as I see/can guess DDEWA are implemented using very similar to
ASP.NET MVC Framework approach: I mean they seems to be using "some tricks"
on top of ASP.NET engine to generate on-the-fly ASP.NET controls and web
forms and "feed" ASP.NET engine using these generated web forms/controls. I
can be wrong. Just guessing...

I will continue my R&D with DDEWA and if I find something interesting I will
post this information here.

BTW, I'm currently trying to customize the order of the list of the tables
shown on the first page (Default.aspx) of my DDEWA, any ideas?

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 4:45 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil

My comments were not on the ADO.NET Entity Data Model which I find very
promising.

Your example of a "superuser" having access to the schema and full (test)
data is what I meant with a admin/techie app which I believe can be useful -
only have I never met a client which had much more than just a sense of what
the database is about.

I agree with you that dynamic data entities web tool seems to be very well
engineered.

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 13:18 >>>
Hi Gustav,

Yes, it takes "close to zero efforts" (~1 minute) to have a "web
application" for this ADO.NET entity model

http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/temp/model.jpg 

which in turn was generated from MS SQL 2005 database.

<<<
...this technique has its uses but app development is not one of these...
>>>
Gustav, let me disagree with that your statement.

First of all because (sample) and lookup data entry/edit is in fact part of
our everyday real life practice of application development.

Second, because Dynamic Data Entity Web Applications (DDEWA) do help
developers to verify their data modeling decisions by "effortlessly" giving
"working models" in hands of (power-)users, and when users/developers find
there are some mistakes in those decisions then DDEWA help to quickly fix
those mistakes (as you can see from referred here video you have to just
redeploy your corrected db and corresponding .edmx file and then refresh
your browser - and you'll get the new version "up & running". This practice
of verifying data modeling decisions in real life environment is also our
everyday practice but it usually takes much more efforts when done without
DDEWA. 

Third, because as I noted you can prepare within DDEWA ready to use in real
apps "code blocks" (.ascx controls etc.) while "playing with" DDEWA (again
as you can see no need to rebuild/restart the application - just refresh
your browser - well, that is a consequence of ASP.NET technology used for
DDEWA)

Fourth, as we talked here before, ADO.NET Entity Data Model will allow in
the (near) future to generate actual database models from ADO.NET Entity
models - wouldn't that become soon our everyday development practice?
(Imagine you start from use cases/user stories, develop customs classes and
business functionality based on ADO.NET Entity objects, develop unit tests,
then generate database model, develop integration tests, generate/customize
application interface... - and you're done. (of course I'm simplifying here
the real picture but IMO mainstream direction is presented correctly?))

Fifth, as we can see DDEWA user interface is generated from ADO.NET Entity
Model and this model (which is currently in the referred above case is
simply generated from database model) can be made having "Super-Entities"
modeling user interfaces' underplaying data, these "Super-Entities" can have
relations used by DDEWA to navigate between them... - IOW this is a way to
simulate real life apps user interfaces and navigation, and then "just add"
a mapping from "Super-Entities" to database entities...

...

DDEWA looks here very challenging and in the same time helpful to our
everyday development practices, not a "silver bullet" of course as we're
getting more and more complicated business tasks to automate but they
(DDEWA) promise to get out "yet another routine everyday work" from the
shoulders of developers...

Thank you.

--
Shamil 

P.S. The idea of DDEWA to generate user interface doesn't look original - we
have seen many "wizard tools" like that (I have even participated in
developing tools like that for different platforms, did you?) - but
implementation of this idea by MS folks and the ways to (re-)use this
implementation for real life apps development look very powerful, useful and
challenging from here. My five stars (*****) to MS DDEWA technology
developers.

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 2:27 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil and Charlotte

I watched that video - some challenge due to the awful soundtrack - and my
impression is that this dynamic data entities web is useful only for
creating an interface to the complete table schema - which you hardly never
use (I haven't) except for the example Shamil describes where you wish to
present the full schema as well as the data content and even offer to edit
this at close to zero efforts. I could imagine some kind of monitoring or
admin/techie interface built this way.

For any other purpose a lot of customizing is needed which - though quite
powerful, so it seems - for a decent app will take longer than building the
app from scratch I guess. 

So - as I see it - this technique has its uses but app development is not on
of these.

/gustav







From Gustav at cactus.dk  Sun Aug 23 16:21:09 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 23:21:09 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications
Message-ID: <sa91cef8.098@cactus.dk>

Hi Shamil

Thanks for the tip. Not an easy one to figure out!

/gustav

>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 23-08-2009 22:54 >>>
Hi All,

While trying to move my DDEWA to my ASP.NET hosting site I have again got
some weird error messages: fortunately I have found solution of StackOverflow:

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/689355/metadataexception-unable-to-load-the-specified-metadata-resource

Connection string should start with:

connectionString="metadata=res://*/;

It worked well in my case.

FYI: it could take hours and hours to find the solution by yourself - here is one example how much time it costed to another developer:

http://forums.asp.net/p/1409590/3082930.aspx 

Thank you.

--
Shamil




From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Mon Aug 24 08:27:26 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:27:26 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] FTP and email in .Net
Message-ID: <4A92953E.1000304@colbyconsulting.com>

I am looking (Google) for how to ftp and email in .Net and am not finding anything.  Is this "built 
in" or otherwise readily available?

-- 
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


From Gustav at cactus.dk  Mon Aug 24 08:40:50 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 15:40:50 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] FTP and email in .Net
Message-ID: <sa92b491.016@cactus.dk>

Hi John

I've not used FTP only mail which mostly is SMTP. Look for the System.Net.Mail library and the SmtpClient.

It works very well. We have a client with an app using this on a daily basis for more than a year using their own SMTP Service running on an in-house server, and haven't seen a single issue.

If you need code, I can probably pull some out (C#).

/gustav

PS: A bit strange you can't google for this. That's how I found out how to do.

>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 24-08-2009 15:27 >>>
I am looking (Google) for how to ftp and email in .Net and am not finding anything.  Is this "built 
in" or otherwise readily available?

-- 
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com 





From R.Griffiths at bury.gov.uk  Mon Aug 24 08:44:22 2009
From: R.Griffiths at bury.gov.uk (Griffiths, Richard)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 14:44:22 +0100
Subject: [dba-VB] FTP and email in .Net
In-Reply-To: <4A92953E.1000304@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <4A92953E.1000304@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <200908241322.n7ODMPs27534@smarthost.yourcomms.net>

Hi

Have a look at

Dim ftp As Utilities.FTP.FTPclient

Richard
-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: 24 August 2009 14:27
To: VBA
Subject: [dba-VB] FTP and email in .Net

I am looking (Google) for how to ftp and email in .Net and am not
finding anything.  Is this "built 
in" or otherwise readily available?

-- 
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com
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From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Mon Aug 24 08:50:57 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:50:57 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] FTP and email in .Net
In-Reply-To: <200908241322.n7ODMPs27534@smarthost.yourcomms.net>
References: <4A92953E.1000304@colbyconsulting.com>
	<200908241322.n7ODMPs27534@smarthost.yourcomms.net>
Message-ID: <4A929AC1.3010602@colbyconsulting.com>

Thanks Richard.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Griffiths, Richard wrote:
> Hi
> 
> Have a look at
> 
> Dim ftp As Utilities.FTP.FTPclient
> 
> Richard
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
> Sent: 24 August 2009 14:27
> To: VBA
> Subject: [dba-VB] FTP and email in .Net
> 
> I am looking (Google) for how to ftp and email in .Net and am not
> finding anything.  Is this "built 
> in" or otherwise readily available?
> 


From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Mon Aug 24 08:51:14 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:51:14 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] FTP and email in .Net
In-Reply-To: <sa92b491.016@cactus.dk>
References: <sa92b491.016@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <4A929AD2.1040201@colbyconsulting.com>

Thanks Gustav.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi John
> 
> I've not used FTP only mail which mostly is SMTP. Look for the System.Net.Mail library and the SmtpClient.
> 
> It works very well. We have a client with an app using this on a daily basis for more than a year using their own SMTP Service running on an in-house server, and haven't seen a single issue.
> 
> If you need code, I can probably pull some out (C#).
> 
> /gustav
> 
> PS: A bit strange you can't google for this. That's how I found out how to do.
> 
>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 24-08-2009 15:27 >>>
> I am looking (Google) for how to ftp and email in .Net and am not finding anything.  Is this "built 
> in" or otherwise readily available?
> 


From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Mon Aug 24 09:33:35 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 18:33:35 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] FTP and email in .Net
In-Reply-To: <4A92953E.1000304@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <4A92953E.1000304@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <002601ca24c7$e17714d0$a4653e70$@spb.ru>

Hi John,

FTT and SMPT e-maling are built-in.
FTP can be done many ways - I used System.Net.HttpWebRequest.
For SMTP e-mailing I used System.Net.Mail and related.

If you will not find ready to use samples on Internet we can "cook" some
samples for you here.

Thank you.

--
Shamil


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 5:27 PM
To: VBA
Subject: [dba-VB] FTP and email in .Net

I am looking (Google) for how to ftp and email in .Net and am not finding
anything.  Is this "built 
in" or otherwise readily available?

-- 
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com
_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4363 (20090824) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 



From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Mon Aug 24 12:38:52 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 21:38:52 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...
Message-ID: <003301ca24e1$c0a99060$41fcb120$@spb.ru>

Hi All,

 

I have found (I?m joking) that Russian is the most laconic language in expressing emotions and emotional states ? I mean Russian usually (always?) needs the least amount of letters to express emotions in written text/verbally ? here is one example - I have got translations from http://translate.google.com ? I can?t guarantee they are all correct. Also I?m not sure that non-Ascii letters will go well through wires ? the main purpose of this message is to test that - could be useful to know how it will work if some code samples here will have national alphabets used):

 

Russian: ????

 

English: I'm joking

Arabic:  ??? ????

Bulgarian: ?? ??? ??????

Hungarian: I'm vicc

Dutch: Ik ben een grapje

Greek: ??? ???????????

Hebrew: ??? ????

Indonesian: Aku bercanda

Spanish: Estoy bromeando

Italian: Sto scherzando

Chinese(Traditional): ?????

German: Ich scherze

Polish: Ja ?artuj?

Portugal: Estou brincando

Romanian: Eu glumesc

Serbs: ????? ??

Slovak: Ja si ?arty

Slovenes: ?alim

??????????: Ako biro

Turkish:  Ben ?aka yap?yorum ya??yorum

Ukrainian: ??????

French: Je plaisante

Hindi: ??? ???? ?? ??? ???

Croatian: ?alim se

Czech: J? si legraci

Swedish: Jag sk?mtar

Estonian: Ma nalja

Japan: ??????????

?

 

As you can see(?) in Russian you need just one word and 4 chars to write/say ?I?m joking?.

 

Thank you.

 

--

Shamil

 

P.S. Gustav, I didn?t find translation to Danish on translate.google.com ? what it is?



From max.wanadoo at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 13:02:58 2009
From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 19:02:58 +0100
Subject: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...
In-Reply-To: <003301ca24e1$c0a99060$41fcb120$@spb.ru>
References: <003301ca24e1$c0a99060$41fcb120$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <4a92d5e6.0a1ad00a.0893.0512@mx.google.com>

So?

Max
1 word, 2 letters ha!  You can't beat the British.  Ask anybody, ask the ozzies for instance...


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov
Sent: 24 August 2009 18:39
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...

Hi All,

 

I have found (I?m joking) that Russian is the most laconic language in expressing emotions and emotional states ? I mean Russian usually (always?) needs the least amount of letters to express emotions in written text/verbally ? here is one example - I have got translations from http://translate.google.com ? I can?t guarantee they are all correct. Also I?m not sure that non-Ascii letters will go well through wires ? the main purpose of this message is to test that - could be useful to know how it will work if some code samples here will have national alphabets used):

 

Russian: ????

 

English: I'm joking

Arabic:  ??? ????

Bulgarian: ?? ??? ??????

Hungarian: I'm vicc

Dutch: Ik ben een grapje

Greek: ??? ???????????

Hebrew: ??? ????

Indonesian: Aku bercanda

Spanish: Estoy bromeando

Italian: Sto scherzando

Chinese(Traditional): ?????

German: Ich scherze

Polish: Ja ?artuj?

Portugal: Estou brincando

Romanian: Eu glumesc

Serbs: ????? ??

Slovak: Ja si ?arty

Slovenes: ?alim

??????????: Ako biro

Turkish:  Ben ?aka yap?yorum ya??yorum

Ukrainian: ??????

French: Je plaisante

Hindi: ??? ???? ?? ??? ???

Croatian: ?alim se

Czech: J? si legraci

Swedish: Jag sk?mtar

Estonian: Ma nalja

Japan: ??????????

?

 

As you can see(?) in Russian you need just one word and 4 chars to write/say ?I?m joking?.

 

Thank you.

 

--

Shamil

 

P.S. Gustav, I didn?t find translation to Danish on translate.google.com ? what it is?

_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com





From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Mon Aug 24 13:15:38 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 14:15:38 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] One Click publish
Message-ID: <4A92D8CA.8060909@colbyconsulting.com>

Does the One Click thing publish the database as well for a database app?  If not, is there such a 
thing for publishing the database?

-- 
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Mon Aug 24 13:19:25 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 22:19:25 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...
In-Reply-To: <4a92d5e6.0a1ad00a.0893.0512@mx.google.com>
References: <003301ca24e1$c0a99060$41fcb120$@spb.ru>
	<4a92d5e6.0a1ad00a.0893.0512@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <003801ca24e7$6acb15a0$406140e0$@spb.ru>

?? ;) (pronounced as semi-long 'e' in 'Beatles')

One letter, one word - can you beat Russian? (I didn't yet mention here but there is a special Russian slang broadly used "in masses" here when you can use three, max four words to express everything. I must say this slang is "prohibited" to use when kids and women are around, so I'd not use it here - you can Google YouTube to hear some - Madonna before her visit here this August used one of this words in her advertisement of her coming concert on Palace Square here in St.Petersburg, in front of Hermitage (Hermitage officials and Russian Orthodox Church officials asked Madonna to not use uncensored (Russian) slang during that concert - and she didn't but as usual she behaved rather extravagant during this concert as I have seen in one of the clips (I wasn't there on Palace Square that day))...)

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:03 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...

So?

Max
1 word, 2 letters ha!  You can't beat the British.  Ask anybody, ask the ozzies for instance...


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov
Sent: 24 August 2009 18:39
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...

Hi All,

 

I have found (I?m joking) that Russian is the most laconic language in expressing emotions and emotional states ? I mean Russian usually (always?) needs the least amount of letters to express emotions in written text/verbally ? here is one example - I have got translations from http://translate.google.com ? I can?t guarantee they are all correct. Also I?m not sure that non-Ascii letters will go well through wires ? the main purpose of this message is to test that - could be useful to know how it will work if some code samples here will have national alphabets used):

 

Russian: ????

 

English: I'm joking

Arabic:  ??? ????

Bulgarian: ?? ??? ??????

Hungarian: I'm vicc

Dutch: Ik ben een grapje

Greek: ??? ???????????

Hebrew: ??? ????

Indonesian: Aku bercanda

Spanish: Estoy bromeando

Italian: Sto scherzando

Chinese(Traditional): ?????

German: Ich scherze

Polish: Ja ?artuj?

Portugal: Estou brincando

Romanian: Eu glumesc

Serbs: ????? ??

Slovak: Ja si ?arty

Slovenes: ?alim

??????????: Ako biro

Turkish:  Ben ?aka yap?yorum ya??yorum

Ukrainian: ??????

French: Je plaisante

Hindi: ??? ???? ?? ??? ???

Croatian: ?alim se

Czech: J? si legraci

Swedish: Jag sk?mtar

Estonian: Ma nalja

Japan: ??????????

?

 

As you can see(?) in Russian you need just one word and 4 chars to write/say ?I?m joking?.

 

Thank you.

 

--

Shamil

 

P.S. Gustav, I didn?t find translation to Danish on translate.google.com ? what it is?

_______________________________________________

 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4364 (20090824) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 




From Gustav at cactus.dk  Mon Aug 24 13:32:38 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 20:32:38 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...
Message-ID: <sa92f90a.022@cactus.dk>

Hi Shamil

(like Swedish ...)

Danish: Jeg sk?mter
or: Jeg joker

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 24-08-2009 19:38 >>>
Hi All,

 

I have found (I?m joking) that Russian is the most laconic language in expressing emotions and emotional states ? I mean Russian usually (always?) needs the least amount of letters to express emotions in written text/verbally ? here is one example - I have got translations from http://translate.google.com ? I can?t guarantee they are all correct. Also I?m not sure that non-Ascii letters will go well through wires ? the main purpose of this message is to test that - could be useful to know how it will work if some code samples here will have national alphabets used):

 

Russian: ????

 

English: I'm joking

Arabic:  ??? ????

Bulgarian: ?? ??? ??????

Hungarian: I'm vicc

Dutch: Ik ben een grapje

Greek: *?? ???????????

Hebrew: ??? ????

Indonesian: Aku bercanda

Spanish: Estoy bromeando

Italian: Sto scherzando

Chinese(Traditional): *****

German: Ich scherze

Polish: Ja ?artuj?

Portugal: Estou brincando

Romanian: Eu glumesc

Serbs: ????? ??

Slovak: Ja si ?arty

Slovenes: ?alim

??????????: Ako biro

Turkish:  Ben ?aka yap?yorum ya??yorum

Ukrainian: ??????

French: Je plaisante

Hindi: *** **** ** *** ***

Croatian: ?alim se

Czech: J? si legraci

Swedish: Jag sk?mtar

Estonian: Ma nalja

Japan: *?**?*????

?

 

As you can see(?) in Russian you need just one word and 4 chars to write/say ?I?m joking?.

 

Thank you.

 

--

Shamil

 

P.S. Gustav, I didn?t find translation to Danish on translate.google.com ? what it is?





From Gustav at cactus.dk  Mon Aug 24 13:37:01 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 20:37:01 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] One Click publish
Message-ID: <sa92f9fa.023@cactus.dk>

Hi John

Yes, at least for SQL Server. Some explanation here:

http://www.databasejournal.com/features/mssql/article.php/3714536/SQL-Server-2005-Express-Edition---Part-12---ClickOnce-Deployment-and-Updates.htm 

/gustav

>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 24-08-2009 20:15 >>>
Does the One Click thing publish the database as well for a database app?  If not, is there such a 
thing for publishing the database?

-- 
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com 





From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Mon Aug 24 14:06:32 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 23:06:32 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] One Click publish
In-Reply-To: <sa92f9fa.023@cactus.dk>
References: <sa92f9fa.023@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <003901ca24ed$ff506b70$fdf14250$@spb.ru>

Hi John and Gustav,

I must say, I have spent some time trying to figure out how to setup some
data(base) locally with Click-Once setup - and I just gave up because that
wasn't a work paid by a customer urging that setup and having a money to pay
for it: I mean this is a very advanced subject IMO - "Click-Once setup with
local data(base). For myself I decided to use Click-Once setup only talking
to (external) web-services or to local preinstalled MS SQL database, which
connection string is known for Click-Once app (although I didn't test how it
works) - Click-Once apps are usually having very limited access rights to
the host system they run on - IOW they run in "sandbox" - one can try to
bypass these limitations by using Code Access Security (CAS) manipulation on
runtime but again that's is an advanced subject...

...IOW Click-Once setup of apps with unlimited permissions is as dangerous
as ActiveXes setup - not recommended(?)...

"There is no free cheese in this world"

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:37 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] One Click publish

Hi John

Yes, at least for SQL Server. Some explanation here:

http://www.databasejournal.com/features/mssql/article.php/3714536/SQL-Server
-2005-Express-Edition---Part-12---ClickOnce-Deployment-and-Updates.htm 

/gustav

>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 24-08-2009 20:15 >>>
Does the One Click thing publish the database as well for a database app?
If not, is there such a 
thing for publishing the database?

-- 
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com 



 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4364 (20090824) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 



From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Mon Aug 24 14:11:24 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 23:11:24 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...
In-Reply-To: <sa92f90a.022@cactus.dk>
References: <sa92f90a.022@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <003a01ca24ee$adf63290$09e297b0$@spb.ru>

Thank you, Gustav.

--
Shamil

P.S. As far as I see most of the national alphabets letters went well through wire - something like 80% of them - let's assume that the test worked OK. Thank you.

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:33 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...

Hi Shamil

(like Swedish ...)

Danish: Jeg sk?mter
or: Jeg joker

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 24-08-2009 19:38 >>>
Hi All,

 

I have found (I?m joking) that Russian is the most laconic language in expressing emotions and emotional states ? I mean Russian usually (always?) needs the least amount of letters to express emotions in written text/verbally ? here is one example - I have got translations from http://translate.google.com ? I can?t guarantee they are all correct. Also I?m not sure that non-Ascii letters will go well through wires ? the main purpose of this message is to test that - could be useful to know how it will work if some code samples here will have national alphabets used):

 

Russian: ????

 

English: I'm joking

Arabic:  ??? ????

Bulgarian: ?? ??? ??????

Hungarian: I'm vicc

Dutch: Ik ben een grapje

Greek: *?? ???????????

Hebrew: ??? ????

Indonesian: Aku bercanda

Spanish: Estoy bromeando

Italian: Sto scherzando

Chinese(Traditional): *****

German: Ich scherze

Polish: Ja ?artuj?

Portugal: Estou brincando

Romanian: Eu glumesc

Serbs: ????? ??

Slovak: Ja si ?arty

Slovenes: ?alim

??????????: Ako biro

Turkish:  Ben ?aka yap?yorum ya??yorum

Ukrainian: ??????

French: Je plaisante

Hindi: *** **** ** *** ***

Croatian: ?alim se

Czech: J? si legraci

Swedish: Jag sk?mtar

Estonian: Ma nalja

Japan: *?**?*????

?

 

As you can see(?) in Russian you need just one word and 4 chars to write/say ?I?m joking?.

 

Thank you.

 

--

Shamil

 

P.S. Gustav, I didn?t find translation to Danish on translate.google.com ? what it is?



_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com

 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4364 (20090824) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 




From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Mon Aug 24 14:15:53 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 15:15:53 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] One Click publish
In-Reply-To: <003901ca24ed$ff506b70$fdf14250$@spb.ru>
References: <sa92f9fa.023@cactus.dk> <003901ca24ed$ff506b70$fdf14250$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <4A92E6E9.5040409@colbyconsulting.com>

Hmm....

I am looking at building an application in .Net.  This application will be used by my users but will 
also possibly be sold to companies.  Thus the application install has to somehow do an initial setup 
of a database.  As changes are made, any database changes have to be pushed along with the 
application changes.

The application will "start small and expand" so I am expecting the application and it's database to 
grow over the years.

Perhaps Click-Once is not the method for this kind of situation?

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote:
> Hi John and Gustav,
> 
> I must say, I have spent some time trying to figure out how to setup some
> data(base) locally with Click-Once setup - and I just gave up because that
> wasn't a work paid by a customer urging that setup and having a money to pay
> for it: I mean this is a very advanced subject IMO - "Click-Once setup with
> local data(base). For myself I decided to use Click-Once setup only talking
> to (external) web-services or to local preinstalled MS SQL database, which
> connection string is known for Click-Once app (although I didn't test how it
> works) - Click-Once apps are usually having very limited access rights to
> the host system they run on - IOW they run in "sandbox" - one can try to
> bypass these limitations by using Code Access Security (CAS) manipulation on
> runtime but again that's is an advanced subject...
> 
> ...IOW Click-Once setup of apps with unlimited permissions is as dangerous
> as ActiveXes setup - not recommended(?)...
> 
> "There is no free cheese in this world"
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> --
> Shamil
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
> Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:37 PM
> To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] One Click publish
> 
> Hi John
> 
> Yes, at least for SQL Server. Some explanation here:
> 
> http://www.databasejournal.com/features/mssql/article.php/3714536/SQL-Server
> -2005-Express-Edition---Part-12---ClickOnce-Deployment-and-Updates.htm 
> 
> /gustav
> 
>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 24-08-2009 20:15 >>>
> Does the One Click thing publish the database as well for a database app?
> If not, is there such a 
> thing for publishing the database?
> 


From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Mon Aug 24 15:04:08 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 00:04:08 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] One Click publish
In-Reply-To: <4A92E6E9.5040409@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <sa92f9fa.023@cactus.dk> <003901ca24ed$ff506b70$fdf14250$@spb.ru>
	<4A92E6E9.5040409@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <003b01ca24f6$0b91cde0$22b569a0$@spb.ru>

Yes, then you probably better use ordinary setup procedures: there are
special setup projects in VS, not sure they exist in C#/VB Express - please
check. But I anyway do not use these VS setup projects - I accustomed to use
INNO-Setup (free) setup scripts, which I have created once a long ago to
setup my/my customer MS Access apps, and I now use with some edits to setup
.NET apps - works pretty well for many customers and projects...

Thank you.

--
Shamil 

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 11:16 PM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] One Click publish

Hmm....

I am looking at building an application in .Net.  This application will be
used by my users but will 
also possibly be sold to companies.  Thus the application install has to
somehow do an initial setup 
of a database.  As changes are made, any database changes have to be pushed
along with the 
application changes.

The application will "start small and expand" so I am expecting the
application and it's database to 
grow over the years.

Perhaps Click-Once is not the method for this kind of situation?

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote:
> Hi John and Gustav,
> 
> I must say, I have spent some time trying to figure out how to setup some
> data(base) locally with Click-Once setup - and I just gave up because that
> wasn't a work paid by a customer urging that setup and having a money to
pay
> for it: I mean this is a very advanced subject IMO - "Click-Once setup
with
> local data(base). For myself I decided to use Click-Once setup only
talking
> to (external) web-services or to local preinstalled MS SQL database, which
> connection string is known for Click-Once app (although I didn't test how
it
> works) - Click-Once apps are usually having very limited access rights to
> the host system they run on - IOW they run in "sandbox" - one can try to
> bypass these limitations by using Code Access Security (CAS) manipulation
on
> runtime but again that's is an advanced subject...
> 
> ...IOW Click-Once setup of apps with unlimited permissions is as dangerous
> as ActiveXes setup - not recommended(?)...
> 
> "There is no free cheese in this world"
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> --
> Shamil
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
> Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:37 PM
> To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] One Click publish
> 
> Hi John
> 
> Yes, at least for SQL Server. Some explanation here:
> 
>
http://www.databasejournal.com/features/mssql/article.php/3714536/SQL-Server
> -2005-Express-Edition---Part-12---ClickOnce-Deployment-and-Updates.htm 
> 
> /gustav
> 
>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 24-08-2009 20:15 >>>
> Does the One Click thing publish the database as well for a database app?
> If not, is there such a 
> thing for publishing the database?
> 
_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4364 (20090824) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru


 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4364 (20090824) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 



From Gustav at cactus.dk  Mon Aug 24 16:18:18 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 23:18:18 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] One Click publish
Message-ID: <sa931fd9.024@cactus.dk>

Hi John and Shamil

It is not that complicated ... once you find out how. That took me quite some time because I had to both distribute the app (that's easy) and install a font (not so easy) at each workstation. Most of the bumps are due to security precautions.

I have previously posted about how to do this and the tool needed:

http://databaseadvisors.com/pipermail/dba-vb/2008-October/002037.html 

In your case you would prepare an SQL Server quiet install package and arrange that as a prerequisite for your app.

/gustav

>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 24-08-2009 21:06 >>>
Hi John and Gustav,

I must say, I have spent some time trying to figure out how to setup some
data(base) locally with Click-Once setup - and I just gave up because that
wasn't a work paid by a customer urging that setup and having a money to pay
for it: I mean this is a very advanced subject IMO - "Click-Once setup with
local data(base). For myself I decided to use Click-Once setup only talking
to (external) web-services or to local preinstalled MS SQL database, which
connection string is known for Click-Once app (although I didn't test how it
works) - Click-Once apps are usually having very limited access rights to
the host system they run on - IOW they run in "sandbox" - one can try to
bypass these limitations by using Code Access Security (CAS) manipulation on
runtime but again that's is an advanced subject...

...IOW Click-Once setup of apps with unlimited permissions is as dangerous
as ActiveXes setup - not recommended(?)...

"There is no free cheese in this world"

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:37 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] One Click publish

Hi John

Yes, at least for SQL Server. Some explanation here:

http://www.databasejournal.com/features/mssql/article.php/3714536/SQL-Server 
-2005-Express-Edition---Part-12---ClickOnce-Deployment-and-Updates.htm 

/gustav

>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 24-08-2009 20:15 >>>
Does the One Click thing publish the database as well for a database app?
If not, is there such a 
thing for publishing the database?

-- 
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com 





From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Mon Aug 24 16:18:48 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 17:18:48 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev
Message-ID: <4A9303B8.20507@colbyconsulting.com>

I am going to do a virtual machine to do my development on.  This allows me to move it around on an 
external disk between host machines.

My question is what OS would you suggest for the VM for development in .Net?  My available choices 
are XP, 2003 and Vista (and maybe Server 2008).

Also how much disk space for the virtual hard disk?

Even though I have been using Vista on my main development laptop for a couple of years, I still 
hate it, so that would not be my first choice.

Windows 2003 is a very stable environment but it is also a server OS and I have run into a lot of 
applications, PerfectDisk for example, which refuse to run on a server OS OR want you to pay 
hundreds of dollars for something that costs $50 for XP.

Which leaves me with XP which is getting long in the tooth.

Any yes, I have a copy of Server 2008 which I assume would have the same "is a server OS" issues 
that 2003 brings with it.

Any thoughts on this?

BTW I think I am going to bring up a server machine (real hardware) to run the Server 2008 license I 
have.

-- 
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


From Gustav at cactus.dk  Mon Aug 24 16:32:39 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 23:32:39 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev
Message-ID: <sa932340.025@cactus.dk>

Hi John

Vista if you ask me. Or, of course, Windows 7 when you can get hold on it.
Hanging on with Win XP is too lame.

But my primary development machine I wouldn't run in a VM.

/gustav

>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 24-08-2009 23:18 >>>
I am going to do a virtual machine to do my development on.  This allows me to move it around on an 
external disk between host machines.

My question is what OS would you suggest for the VM for development in .Net?  My available choices 
are XP, 2003 and Vista (and maybe Server 2008).

Also how much disk space for the virtual hard disk?

Even though I have been using Vista on my main development laptop for a couple of years, I still 
hate it, so that would not be my first choice.

Windows 2003 is a very stable environment but it is also a server OS and I have run into a lot of 
applications, PerfectDisk for example, which refuse to run on a server OS OR want you to pay 
hundreds of dollars for something that costs $50 for XP.

Which leaves me with XP which is getting long in the tooth.

Any yes, I have a copy of Server 2008 which I assume would have the same "is a server OS" issues 
that 2003 brings with it.

Any thoughts on this?

BTW I think I am going to bring up a server machine (real hardware) to run the Server 2008 license I 
have.

-- 
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com 





From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Mon Aug 24 16:36:26 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 01:36:26 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev
In-Reply-To: <4A9303B8.20507@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <4A9303B8.20507@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <004501ca2502$f5369dc0$dfa3d940$@spb.ru>

Hi John,

Win XP SP2 should be OK for up to .NET Framework 3.5 SP1, I'm not sure about
.NET Framework 4.0 - but I'd hope it should be OK too.

I do use Vista Ultimate as my main development PC, I do have WinXP SP2 to
test my setups, as well as I used MS Windows 2003 Server in the past and it
worked well while using it to develop .NET apps.

Windows 2008 should be probably the best choice, but it's not necessary I
suppose: as far as I understand new .NET versions just add new .NET
Framework classes and technologies, which run on top of "good old Win32API",
which didn't change that much since WinXP, and if something new comes in
windows system then that new parts should be installed OK from WinXP SP2 and
up...

I have seen customers are now starting to request .NET apps running on 64
bit machines as well as utilizing optimally multi-core systems - I do not
have that experience yet... 

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 1:19 AM
To: VBA
Subject: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev

I am going to do a virtual machine to do my development on.  This allows me
to move it around on an 
external disk between host machines.

My question is what OS would you suggest for the VM for development in .Net?
My available choices 
are XP, 2003 and Vista (and maybe Server 2008).

Also how much disk space for the virtual hard disk?

Even though I have been using Vista on my main development laptop for a
couple of years, I still 
hate it, so that would not be my first choice.

Windows 2003 is a very stable environment but it is also a server OS and I
have run into a lot of 
applications, PerfectDisk for example, which refuse to run on a server OS OR
want you to pay 
hundreds of dollars for something that costs $50 for XP.

Which leaves me with XP which is getting long in the tooth.

Any yes, I have a copy of Server 2008 which I assume would have the same "is
a server OS" issues 
that 2003 brings with it.

Any thoughts on this?

BTW I think I am going to bring up a server machine (real hardware) to run
the Server 2008 license I 
have.

-- 
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com
_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4364 (20090824) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru


 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4364 (20090824) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 



From dbdoug at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 16:46:19 2009
From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 14:46:19 -0700
Subject: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev
In-Reply-To: <4A9303B8.20507@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <4A9303B8.20507@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <4dd71a0c0908241446k303b83e6odcdf9f3cd9eeec46@mail.gmail.com>

Hi John:

My development environment is a  15GB VMWare virtual machine.  I installed
Win XP, VS2008 (C# only, I think, but all the help files), SQL Server
Express 2005, and Office 2003.  I have less than 1GB free.

Doug

On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 2:18 PM, jwcolby <jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com>wrote:

> I am going to do a virtual machine to do my development on.  This allows me
> to move it around on an
> external disk between host machines.
>
> My question is what OS would you suggest for the VM for development in
> .Net?  My available choices
> are XP, 2003 and Vista (and maybe Server 2008).
>
> Also how much disk space for the virtual hard disk?
>
>


From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Mon Aug 24 17:02:58 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 18:02:58 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev
In-Reply-To: <sa932340.025@cactus.dk>
References: <sa932340.025@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <4A930E12.6010106@colbyconsulting.com>

Gustav,

 > But my primary development machine I wouldn't run in a VM.

Why is that?  I have used VMs for this for awhile now, and I think it works well.

I have VMS Server on both of my Server 2003 machines and they have very fast processors and lots of 
memory so it makes the VM run fast and I can assign lots of memory to the VM if I need.

OTOH I have VMWare player on my Vista laptop.  While it is a fairly fast laptop it only has 4 gigs 
of RAM.

By running the VM off of a USB drive I can move it around pretty much at will.  I kind of like that.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi John
> 
> Vista if you ask me. Or, of course, Windows 7 when you can get hold on it.
> Hanging on with Win XP is too lame.
> 
> But my primary development machine I wouldn't run in a VM.
> 
> /gustav
> 
>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 24-08-2009 23:18 >>>
> I am going to do a virtual machine to do my development on.  This allows me to move it around on an 
> external disk between host machines.
> 
> My question is what OS would you suggest for the VM for development in .Net?  My available choices 
> are XP, 2003 and Vista (and maybe Server 2008).
> 
> Also how much disk space for the virtual hard disk?
> 
> Even though I have been using Vista on my main development laptop for a couple of years, I still 
> hate it, so that would not be my first choice.
> 
> Windows 2003 is a very stable environment but it is also a server OS and I have run into a lot of 
> applications, PerfectDisk for example, which refuse to run on a server OS OR want you to pay 
> hundreds of dollars for something that costs $50 for XP.
> 
> Which leaves me with XP which is getting long in the tooth.
> 
> Any yes, I have a copy of Server 2008 which I assume would have the same "is a server OS" issues 
> that 2003 brings with it.
> 
> Any thoughts on this?
> 
> BTW I think I am going to bring up a server machine (real hardware) to run the Server 2008 license I 
> have.
> 


From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Mon Aug 24 17:05:04 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 18:05:04 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev
In-Reply-To: <4dd71a0c0908241446k303b83e6odcdf9f3cd9eeec46@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4A9303B8.20507@colbyconsulting.com>
	<4dd71a0c0908241446k303b83e6odcdf9f3cd9eeec46@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A930E90.3010501@colbyconsulting.com>

ROTFL.

I have an XP VM with 30 gigs and it has about 15 gigs free.  I was worried about that small amount. 
  1 gig free would make me nervous.

I have a 7200 RPM laptop drive with 100 gigs in an external case, USB 2.0 interface.  I thought I 
would put whatever I use on that.  I like to work on my laptop and haul stuff around, and I want the 
VM to be portable between host machines.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Doug Steele wrote:
> Hi John:
> 
> My development environment is a  15GB VMWare virtual machine.  I installed
> Win XP, VS2008 (C# only, I think, but all the help files), SQL Server
> Express 2005, and Office 2003.  I have less than 1GB free.
> 
> Doug
> 
> On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 2:18 PM, jwcolby <jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com>wrote:
> 
>> I am going to do a virtual machine to do my development on.  This allows me
>> to move it around on an
>> external disk between host machines.
>>
>> My question is what OS would you suggest for the VM for development in
>> .Net?  My available choices
>> are XP, 2003 and Vista (and maybe Server 2008).
>>
>> Also how much disk space for the virtual hard disk?
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 


From cfoust at infostatsystems.com  Mon Aug 24 18:07:20 2009
From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:07:20 -0700
Subject: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev
In-Reply-To: <4A9303B8.20507@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <4A9303B8.20507@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <F55048AF7E974F429BB24597D7355EEABFADE0@INFOSERVER04.infostat.local>

You need to be sure whatever you build will install properly in Vista.
We ran into problems because we had always written to the Local Machine
in the registry.  Vista pretends to go along with that but it actually
writes to the current user, which can cause a lot of confusion when
licenses are applied.  We're trying to find a way to use an encrypted
file instead to handle licensing now.

Charlotte Foust 

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 2:19 PM
To: VBA
Subject: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev

I am going to do a virtual machine to do my development on.  This allows
me to move it around on an external disk between host machines.

My question is what OS would you suggest for the VM for development in
.Net?  My available choices are XP, 2003 and Vista (and maybe Server
2008).

Also how much disk space for the virtual hard disk?

Even though I have been using Vista on my main development laptop for a
couple of years, I still hate it, so that would not be my first choice.

Windows 2003 is a very stable environment but it is also a server OS and
I have run into a lot of applications, PerfectDisk for example, which
refuse to run on a server OS OR want you to pay hundreds of dollars for
something that costs $50 for XP.

Which leaves me with XP which is getting long in the tooth.

Any yes, I have a copy of Server 2008 which I assume would have the same
"is a server OS" issues that 2003 brings with it.

Any thoughts on this?

BTW I think I am going to bring up a server machine (real hardware) to
run the Server 2008 license I have.

-



From max.wanadoo at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 18:26:18 2009
From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 00:26:18 +0100
Subject: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...
In-Reply-To: <003801ca24e7$6acb15a0$406140e0$@spb.ru>
References: <003301ca24e1$c0a99060$41fcb120$@spb.ru>	<4a92d5e6.0a1ad00a.0893.0512@mx.google.com>
	<003801ca24e7$6acb15a0$406140e0$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <4a9321b5.0707d00a.07f0.76d4@mx.google.com>

Well actually we have quite a few single letter word.

A? as in, what?
C? as in, see I told you so"
K? as in, OK.
O! as in, Oh!
P. as in Pee.
T. as in Tea.
U. as in You.
Y. as in Why.

Bit contrived, but there we go.

Ma



-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov
Sent: 24 August 2009 19:19
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...

?? ;) (pronounced as semi-long 'e' in 'Beatles')

One letter, one word - can you beat Russian? (I didn't yet mention here but there is a special Russian slang broadly used "in masses" here when you can use three, max four words to express everything. I must say this slang is "prohibited" to use when kids and women are around, so I'd not use it here - you can Google YouTube to hear some - Madonna before her visit here this August used one of this words in her advertisement of her coming concert on Palace Square here in St.Petersburg, in front of Hermitage (Hermitage officials and Russian Orthodox Church officials asked Madonna to not use uncensored (Russian) slang during that concert - and she didn't but as usual she behaved rather extravagant during this concert as I have seen in one of the clips (I wasn't there on Palace Square that day))...)

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:03 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...

So?

Max
1 word, 2 letters ha!  You can't beat the British.  Ask anybody, ask the ozzies for instance...


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov
Sent: 24 August 2009 18:39
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...

Hi All,

 

I have found (I?m joking) that Russian is the most laconic language in expressing emotions and emotional states ? I mean Russian usually (always?) needs the least amount of letters to express emotions in written text/verbally ? here is one example - I have got translations from http://translate.google.com ? I can?t guarantee they are all correct. Also I?m not sure that non-Ascii letters will go well through wires ? the main purpose of this message is to test that - could be useful to know how it will work if some code samples here will have national alphabets used):

 

Russian: ????

 

English: I'm joking

Arabic:  ??? ????

Bulgarian: ?? ??? ??????

Hungarian: I'm vicc

Dutch: Ik ben een grapje

Greek: ??? ???????????

Hebrew: ??? ????

Indonesian: Aku bercanda

Spanish: Estoy bromeando

Italian: Sto scherzando

Chinese(Traditional): ?????

German: Ich scherze

Polish: Ja ?artuj?

Portugal: Estou brincando

Romanian: Eu glumesc

Serbs: ????? ??

Slovak: Ja si ?arty

Slovenes: ?alim

??????????: Ako biro

Turkish:  Ben ?aka yap?yorum ya??yorum

Ukrainian: ??????

French: Je plaisante

Hindi: ??? ???? ?? ??? ???

Croatian: ?alim se

Czech: J? si legraci

Swedish: Jag sk?mtar

Estonian: Ma nalja

Japan: ??????????

?

 

As you can see(?) in Russian you need just one word and 4 chars to write/say ?I?m joking?.

 

Thank you.

 

--

Shamil

 

P.S. Gustav, I didn?t find translation to Danish on translate.google.com ? what it is?

_______________________________________________

 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4364 (20090824) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 


_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com





From max.wanadoo at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 18:28:19 2009
From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 00:28:19 +0100
Subject: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev
In-Reply-To: <F55048AF7E974F429BB24597D7355EEABFADE0@INFOSERVER04.infostat.local>
References: <4A9303B8.20507@colbyconsulting.com>
	<F55048AF7E974F429BB24597D7355EEABFADE0@INFOSERVER04.infostat.local>
Message-ID: <4a93222e.0702d00a.3fae.3be7@mx.google.com>

As I keep saying, put it in User Defined Properties  in the FE and BE -
cannot be beaten - travels with the MDB and no way of seeing it.  Encrypt it
too if you want.

No Registry, no .ini, no visible signs.

Max


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust
Sent: 25 August 2009 00:07
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev

You need to be sure whatever you build will install properly in Vista.
We ran into problems because we had always written to the Local Machine
in the registry.  Vista pretends to go along with that but it actually
writes to the current user, which can cause a lot of confusion when
licenses are applied.  We're trying to find a way to use an encrypted
file instead to handle licensing now.

Charlotte Foust 

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 2:19 PM
To: VBA
Subject: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev

I am going to do a virtual machine to do my development on.  This allows
me to move it around on an external disk between host machines.

My question is what OS would you suggest for the VM for development in
.Net?  My available choices are XP, 2003 and Vista (and maybe Server
2008).

Also how much disk space for the virtual hard disk?

Even though I have been using Vista on my main development laptop for a
couple of years, I still hate it, so that would not be my first choice.

Windows 2003 is a very stable environment but it is also a server OS and
I have run into a lot of applications, PerfectDisk for example, which
refuse to run on a server OS OR want you to pay hundreds of dollars for
something that costs $50 for XP.

Which leaves me with XP which is getting long in the tooth.

Any yes, I have a copy of Server 2008 which I assume would have the same
"is a server OS" issues that 2003 brings with it.

Any thoughts on this?

BTW I think I am going to bring up a server machine (real hardware) to
run the Server 2008 license I have.

-

_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From dbdoug at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 18:31:55 2009
From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:31:55 -0700
Subject: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...
In-Reply-To: <4a9321b5.0707d00a.07f0.76d4@mx.google.com>
References: <003301ca24e1$c0a99060$41fcb120$@spb.ru>
	<4a92d5e6.0a1ad00a.0893.0512@mx.google.com>
	<003801ca24e7$6acb15a0$406140e0$@spb.ru>
	<4a9321b5.0707d00a.07f0.76d4@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <4dd71a0c0908241631o7b3bf02cl7bac65ede528ccd5@mail.gmail.com>

Isn't A for 'orses?

Doug

On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 4:26 PM, Max Wanadoo <max.wanadoo at gmail.com> wrote:

> Well actually we have quite a few single letter word.
>
> A? as in, what?
> C? as in, see I told you so"
> K? as in, OK.
> O! as in, Oh!
> P. as in Pee.
> T. as in Tea.
> U. as in You.
> Y. as in Why.
>
>


From cfoust at infostatsystems.com  Mon Aug 24 19:40:59 2009
From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 17:40:59 -0700
Subject: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev
In-Reply-To: <4a93222e.0702d00a.3fae.3be7@mx.google.com>
References: <4A9303B8.20507@colbyconsulting.com><F55048AF7E974F429BB24597D7355EEABFADE0@INFOSERVER04.infostat.local>
	<4a93222e.0702d00a.3fae.3be7@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <F55048AF7E974F429BB24597D7355EEABFADE5@INFOSERVER04.infostat.local>

We're talking .Net here, Max.  Commercial applications.  We do NOT want
them to install this on every machine they own, only licensed copies.
Their mdbs may be SQL Server and their admins have access to the data,
even though the users can't get there.  It's a little more complicated
than it sounds.  When the app was in Access, we did something in the
mdbs.  That is obsolete these days (can you say Citrix?), so we have to
move with the times.

Charlotte Foust

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 4:28 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev

As I keep saying, put it in User Defined Properties  in the FE and BE -
cannot be beaten - travels with the MDB and no way of seeing it.
Encrypt it too if you want.

No Registry, no .ini, no visible signs.

Max




From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Mon Aug 24 22:28:08 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 23:28:08 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] OT: 2008 Server drivers
Message-ID: <4A935A48.3010204@colbyconsulting.com>

I have decided to install 2008 Server Enterprise, 64 bit on one of my machines.  I am wondering what 
server 2008 "looks like", or where it comes from.  Is it 2003 based?  Vista based?

I am wondering where to go for chipset drivers.  It installed just fine and started downloading 
updates.  As I write this it appears that one of the updates (or something) caused a blue screen. 
We shall see if it blew the install out of the water.

To be honest I was impressed that the install worked at all.

-- 
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Mon Aug 24 22:58:53 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 07:58:53 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...
In-Reply-To: <4a9321b5.0707d00a.07f0.76d4@mx.google.com>
References: <003301ca24e1$c0a99060$41fcb120$@spb.ru>	<4a92d5e6.0a1ad00a.0893.0512@mx.google.com>	<003801ca24e7$6acb15a0$406140e0$@spb.ru>
	<4a9321b5.0707d00a.07f0.76d4@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <004f01ca2538$5defbfb0$19cf3f10$@spb.ru>

Max,

?? - is a full word/expression, and the ones you quoted are short-cuts, right?

The meaning of '??' could be:

A? as in, what?
C? as in, see I told you so"
O! as in, Oh!

depending on context and length of pronunciation.

But the main meaning is a bit 'rude' (sorry, I'm just joking/kidding but the main meaning below is quite correct):

?? - 'It doesn't matter for me what you're telling, I don't care at all about that, you didn't convince me, do you have stronger/more reasonable arguments? If you'll continue that way, I'll lose my patience - ?... - you'll see then what I'll do with you...'

;)

--
Shamil

P.S. Leaving this morning for a short one day break, will go to collect wild mushrooms - a kind of sport here :)...

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo
Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 3:26 AM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...

Well actually we have quite a few single letter word.

A? as in, what?
C? as in, see I told you so"
K? as in, OK.
O! as in, Oh!
P. as in Pee.
T. as in Tea.
U. as in You.
Y. as in Why.

Bit contrived, but there we go.

Ma


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov
Sent: 24 August 2009 19:19
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...

?? ;) (pronounced as semi-long 'e' in 'Beatles')

One letter, one word - can you beat Russian? (I didn't yet mention here but there is a special Russian slang broadly used "in masses" here when you can use three, max four words to express everything. I must say this slang is "prohibited" to use when kids and women are around, so I'd not use it here - you can Google YouTube to hear some - Madonna before her visit here this August used one of this words in her advertisement of her coming concert on Palace Square here in St.Petersburg, in front of Hermitage (Hermitage officials and Russian Orthodox Church officials asked Madonna to not use uncensored (Russian) slang during that concert - and she didn't but as usual she behaved rather extravagant during this concert as I have seen in one of the clips (I wasn't there on Palace Square that day))...)

---
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:03 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...

So?

Max
1 word, 2 letters ha!  You can't beat the British.  Ask anybody, ask the ozzies for instance...


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov
Sent: 24 August 2009 18:39
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...

Hi All,

 

I have found (I?m joking) that Russian is the most laconic language in expressing emotions and emotional states ? I mean Russian usually (always?) needs the least amount of letters to express emotions in written text/verbally ? here is one example - I have got translations from http://translate.google.com ? I can?t guarantee they are all correct. Also I?m not sure that non-Ascii letters will go well through wires ? the main purpose of this message is to test that - could be useful to know how it will work if some code samples here will have national alphabets used):

 

Russian: ????

 

English: I'm joking

Arabic:  ??? ????

Bulgarian: ?? ??? ??????

Hungarian: I'm vicc

Dutch: Ik ben een grapje

Greek: ??? ???????????

Hebrew: ??? ????

Indonesian: Aku bercanda

Spanish: Estoy bromeando

Italian: Sto scherzando

Chinese(Traditional): ?????

German: Ich scherze

Polish: Ja ?artuj?

Portugal: Estou brincando

Romanian: Eu glumesc

Serbs: ????? ??

Slovak: Ja si ?arty

Slovenes: ?alim

??????????: Ako biro

Turkish:  Ben ?aka yap?yorum ya??yorum

Ukrainian: ??????

French: Je plaisante

Hindi: ??? ???? ?? ??? ???

Croatian: ?alim se

Czech: J? si legraci

Swedish: Jag sk?mtar

Estonian: Ma nalja

Japan: ??????????

?

 

As you can see(?) in Russian you need just one word and 4 chars to write/say ?I?m joking?.

 

Thank you.

 

--

Shamil

 

P.S. Gustav, I didn?t find translation to Danish on translate.google.com ? what it is?


 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4364 (20090824) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 




From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Tue Aug 25 00:49:15 2009
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 15:49:15 +1000
Subject: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...
In-Reply-To: <4a9321b5.0707d00a.07f0.76d4@mx.google.com>
References: <003301ca24e1$c0a99060$41fcb120$@spb.ru>,
	<003801ca24e7$6acb15a0$406140e0$@spb.ru>,
	<4a9321b5.0707d00a.07f0.76d4@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <4A937B5B.3910.BC8709A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

B - as in Buzz of like a B, Max.
E - as in That bloke Max,  e is an ijit.
F - as in I don't really give an F about this post
G - as in Gee, is that all you can think of?
I  - as I don't really care about this post
L  - as in Wot the L as you talking about
Q - as in I wouldn't Q to see this
R - as in R you serious?

YY UR. YY UB. ICUR YY 4 ME 

or th classic Two Ronnies sketch:
http://www2.prestel.co.uk/cello/swedish.htm



On 25 Aug 2009 at 0:26, Max Wanadoo wrote:

> Well actually we have quite a few single letter word.
> 
> A? as in, what?
> C? as in, see I told you so"
> K? as in, OK.
> O! as in, Oh!
> P. as in Pee.
> T. as in Tea.
> U. as in You.
> Y. as in Why.
> 
> Bit contrived, but there we go.
> 
> Ma
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov
> Sent: 24 August 2009 19:19
> To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...
> 
> ? ;) (pronounced as semi-long 'e' in 'Beatles')
> 
> One letter, one word - can you beat Russian? (I didn't yet mention here but there is a special Russian slang broadly used "in masses" here when you can use three, max four words to express everything. I must say this slang is "prohibited" to use when kids and women are around, so I'd not use it here - you can Google YouTube to hear some - Madonna before her visit here this August used one of this words in her advertisement of her coming concert on Palace Square here in St.Petersburg, in front of Hermitage (Hermitage officials and Russian Orthodox Church officials asked Madonna to not use uncensored (Russian) slang during that concert - and she didn't but as usual she behaved rather extravagant during this concert as I have seen in one of the clips (I wasn't there on Palace Square that day))...)
> 
> --
> Shamil
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo
> Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:03 PM
> To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...
> 
> So?
> 
> Max
> 1 word, 2 letters ha!  You can't beat the British.  Ask anybody, ask the ozzies for instance...
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov
> Sent: 24 August 2009 18:39
> To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
> Subject: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...
> 
> Hi All,
> 
>  
> 
> I have found (I?m joking) that Russian is the most laconic language in expressing emotions and emotional states - I mean Russian usually (always?) needs the least amount of letters to express emotions in written text/verbally - here is one example - I have got translations from http://translate.google.com - I can?t guarantee they are all correct Also ITMm not sure that non-Ascii letters will go well through wires " the main purpose of this essage is to test that - could be useful to know how it will work if some code samples here will have national alhabets used):
> 
>  
> 
> Russian: 
> 
>  
> 
> English: I'm joking
> 
> Arabic:   
> 
> Bulgarian:   
> 
> Hungarian: I'm vicc
> 
> Dutch: Ik ben een grapje
> 
> Greek:  
> 
> Hebrew:  
> 
> Indonesian: Aku bercanda
> 
> Spanish: Estoy bromeando
> 
> Italian: Sto scherzando
> 
> Chinese(Traditional): 
> 
> German: Ich scherze
> 
> Polish: Ja zartuje
> 
> Portugal: Estou brincando
> 
> Romanian: Eu glumesc
> 
> Serbs:  
> 
> Slovak: Ja si zarty
> 
> Slovenes: Salim
> 
> : Ako biro
> 
> Turkish:  Ben saka yapiyorum yasiyorum
> 
> Ukrainian: 
> 
> French: Je plaisante
> 
> Hindi:     
> 
> Croatian: Salim se
> 
> Czech: J? si legraci
> 
> Swedish: Jag sk?mtar
> 
> Estonian: Ma nalja
> 
> Japan: 
> 
> ...
> 
>  
> 
> As you can see(?) in Russian you need just one word and 4 chars to write/say "I?m joking".
> 
>  
> 
> Thank you.
> 
>  
> 
> --
> 
> Shamil
> 
>  
> 
> P.S. Gustav, I didn?t find translation to Danish on translate.google.com - what it is?
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
>  
> 
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4364 (20090824) __________
> 
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
> 
> http://www.esetnod32.ru
>  
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 





From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Tue Aug 25 00:57:04 2009
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 15:57:04 +1000
Subject: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev
In-Reply-To: <F55048AF7E974F429BB24597D7355EEABFADE5@INFOSERVER04.infostat.local>
References: <4A9303B8.20507@colbyconsulting.com>,
	<4a93222e.0702d00a.3fae.3be7@mx.google.com>,
	<F55048AF7E974F429BB24597D7355EEABFADE5@INFOSERVER04.infostat.local>
Message-ID: <4A937D30.31885.BCF96FF@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

So use encrypted data in the BE.  You can store as much random rubbish as you want in a 
system table with various embedded nuggets of encrypted information.  Query it on startup.

If the admins touch it at all, your check code won't validate and  the system can trigger an 
alert - then they'll  have to pay for you to fix it. :-)

-- 
Stuart

On 24 Aug 2009 at 17:40, Charlotte Foust wrote:

> We're talking .Net here, Max.  Commercial applications.  We do NOT want
> them to install this on every machine they own, only licensed copies.
> Their mdbs may be SQL Server and their admins have access to the data,
> even though the users can't get there.  It's a little more complicated
> than it sounds.  When the app was in Access, we did something in the
> mdbs.  That is obsolete these days (can you say Citrix?), so we have to
> move with the times.
> 
> Charlotte Foust
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo
> Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 4:28 PM
> To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev
> 
> As I keep saying, put it in User Defined Properties  in the FE and BE -
> cannot be beaten - travels with the MDB and no way of seeing it.
> Encrypt it too if you want.
> 
> No Registry, no .ini, no visible signs.
> 
> Max
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 




From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Tue Aug 25 00:58:44 2009
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 15:58:44 +1000
Subject: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...
In-Reply-To: <004f01ca2538$5defbfb0$19cf3f10$@spb.ru>
References: <003301ca24e1$c0a99060$41fcb120$@spb.ru>,
	<4a9321b5.0707d00a.07f0.76d4@mx.google.com>,
	<004f01ca2538$5defbfb0$19cf3f10$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <4A937D94.14315.BD11EA5@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

Useful - how do you promounce it?

-- 
Stuart

On 25 Aug 2009 at 7:58, Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote:

> Max,
> 
> ? - is a full word/expression, and the ones you quoted are short-cuts, right?
> 
> The meaning of '?' could be:
> 
> A? as in, what?
> C? as in, see I told you so"
> O! as in, Oh!
> 
> depending on context and length of pronunciation.
> 
> But the main meaning is a bit 'rude' (sorry, I'm just joking/kidding
> but the main meaning below is quite correct): 
> 
> ?? - 'It doesn't matter for me what you're telling, I don't care at
> all about that, you didn't convince me, do you have stronger/more
> reasonable arguments? If you'll continue that way, I'll lose my
> patience - ?... - you'll see then what I'll do with you...' 
> 
> ;)
> 
> --
> Shamil




From Gustav at cactus.dk  Tue Aug 25 01:48:47 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 08:48:47 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev
Message-ID: <sa93a57f.028@cactus.dk>

Hi John

Because I don't move that machine around. And I like to have access to all memory available and full speed graphics.

/gustav

>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 25-08-2009 00:02 >>>
Gustav,

 > But my primary development machine I wouldn't run in a VM.

Why is that?  I have used VMs for this for awhile now, and I think it works well.

I have VMS Server on both of my Server 2003 machines and they have very fast processors and lots of 
memory so it makes the VM run fast and I can assign lots of memory to the VM if I need.

OTOH I have VMWare player on my Vista laptop.  While it is a fairly fast laptop it only has 4 gigs 
of RAM.

By running the VM off of a USB drive I can move it around pretty much at will.  I kind of like that.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com 


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi John
> 
> Vista if you ask me. Or, of course, Windows 7 when you can get hold on it.
> Hanging on with Win XP is too lame.
> 
> But my primary development machine I wouldn't run in a VM.
> 
> /gustav
> 
>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 24-08-2009 23:18 >>>
> I am going to do a virtual machine to do my development on.  This allows me to move it around on an 
> external disk between host machines.
> 
> My question is what OS would you suggest for the VM for development in .Net?  My available choices 
> are XP, 2003 and Vista (and maybe Server 2008).
> 
> Also how much disk space for the virtual hard disk?
> 
> Even though I have been using Vista on my main development laptop for a couple of years, I still 
> hate it, so that would not be my first choice.
> 
> Windows 2003 is a very stable environment but it is also a server OS and I have run into a lot of 
> applications, PerfectDisk for example, which refuse to run on a server OS OR want you to pay 
> hundreds of dollars for something that costs $50 for XP.
> 
> Which leaves me with XP which is getting long in the tooth.
> 
> Any yes, I have a copy of Server 2008 which I assume would have the same "is a server OS" issues 
> that 2003 brings with it.
> 
> Any thoughts on this?
> 
> BTW I think I am going to bring up a server machine (real hardware) to run the Server 2008 license I 
> have.






From max.wanadoo at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 13:47:45 2009
From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 19:47:45 +0100
Subject: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...
In-Reply-To: <004f01ca2538$5defbfb0$19cf3f10$@spb.ru>
References: <003301ca24e1$c0a99060$41fcb120$@spb.ru>	<4a92d5e6.0a1ad00a.0893.0512@mx.google.com>	<003801ca24e7$6acb15a0$406140e0$@spb.ru>	<4a9321b5.0707d00a.07f0.76d4@mx.google.com>
	<004f01ca2538$5defbfb0$19cf3f10$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <4a9431f5.0506d00a.27c0.ffffc160@mx.google.com>

Not rude, just the normal vernacular.

For example, I am reading a book or similar and you shout in "Hey Max, fancy a beer?". I say "What do you think I am sitting on?" and you say "..I said beer not chair you stupid old git" and I say "O". as an expression of surprise. And you then say "C", pause and say "I do put my hands in my pockets sometimes" and I say "A", pause and then say "You will have to speak up I am a bit deaf" and you say "Not deaf, daft" and I say "rollocks" 

Max


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov
Sent: 25 August 2009 04:59
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...

Max,

?? - is a full word/expression, and the ones you quoted are short-cuts, right?

The meaning of '??' could be:

A? as in, what?
C? as in, see I told you so"
O! as in, Oh!

depending on context and length of pronunciation.

But the main meaning is a bit 'rude' (sorry, I'm just joking/kidding but the main meaning below is quite correct):

?? - 'It doesn't matter for me what you're telling, I don't care at all about that, you didn't convince me, do you have stronger/more reasonable arguments? If you'll continue that way, I'll lose my patience - ?... - you'll see then what I'll do with you...'

;)

--
Shamil

P.S. Leaving this morning for a short one day break, will go to collect wild mushrooms - a kind of sport here :)...

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo
Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 3:26 AM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...

Well actually we have quite a few single letter word.

A? as in, what?
C? as in, see I told you so"
K? as in, OK.
O! as in, Oh!
P. as in Pee.
T. as in Tea.
U. as in You.
Y. as in Why.

Bit contrived, but there we go.

Ma


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov
Sent: 24 August 2009 19:19
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...

?? ;) (pronounced as semi-long 'e' in 'Beatles')

One letter, one word - can you beat Russian? (I didn't yet mention here but there is a special Russian slang broadly used "in masses" here when you can use three, max four words to express everything. I must say this slang is "prohibited" to use when kids and women are around, so I'd not use it here - you can Google YouTube to hear some - Madonna before her visit here this August used one of this words in her advertisement of her coming concert on Palace Square here in St.Petersburg, in front of Hermitage (Hermitage officials and Russian Orthodox Church officials asked Madonna to not use uncensored (Russian) slang during that concert - and she didn't but as usual she behaved rather extravagant during this concert as I have seen in one of the clips (I wasn't there on Palace Square that day))...)

---
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:03 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...

So?

Max
1 word, 2 letters ha!  You can't beat the British.  Ask anybody, ask the ozzies for instance...


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov
Sent: 24 August 2009 18:39
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...

Hi All,

 

I have found (I?m joking) that Russian is the most laconic language in expressing emotions and emotional states ? I mean Russian usually (always?) needs the least amount of letters to express emotions in written text/verbally ? here is one example - I have got translations from http://translate.google.com ? I can?t guarantee they are all correct. Also I?m not sure that non-Ascii letters will go well through wires ? the main purpose of this message is to test that - could be useful to know how it will work if some code samples here will have national alphabets used):

 

Russian: ????

 

English: I'm joking

Arabic:  ??? ????

Bulgarian: ?? ??? ??????

Hungarian: I'm vicc

Dutch: Ik ben een grapje

Greek: ??? ???????????

Hebrew: ??? ????

Indonesian: Aku bercanda

Spanish: Estoy bromeando

Italian: Sto scherzando

Chinese(Traditional): ?????

German: Ich scherze

Polish: Ja ?artuj?

Portugal: Estou brincando

Romanian: Eu glumesc

Serbs: ????? ??

Slovak: Ja si ?arty

Slovenes: ?alim

??????????: Ako biro

Turkish:  Ben ?aka yap?yorum ya??yorum

Ukrainian: ??????

French: Je plaisante

Hindi: ??? ???? ?? ??? ???

Croatian: ?alim se

Czech: J? si legraci

Swedish: Jag sk?mtar

Estonian: Ma nalja

Japan: ??????????

?

 

As you can see(?) in Russian you need just one word and 4 chars to write/say ?I?m joking?.

 

Thank you.

 

--

Shamil

 

P.S. Gustav, I didn?t find translation to Danish on translate.google.com ? what it is?


 

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From max.wanadoo at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 14:34:15 2009
From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 20:34:15 +0100
Subject: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev
In-Reply-To: <F55048AF7E974F429BB24597D7355EEABFADE5@INFOSERVER04.infostat.local>
References: <4A9303B8.20507@colbyconsulting.com><F55048AF7E974F429BB24597D7355EEABFADE0@INFOSERVER04.infostat.local>	<4a93222e.0702d00a.3fae.3be7@mx.google.com>
	<F55048AF7E974F429BB24597D7355EEABFADE5@INFOSERVER04.infostat.local>
Message-ID: <4a943cd9.1c07d00a.2460.4d4e@mx.google.com>

Charlotte,

With code, you can do anything you want to do, whenever, for whoever.  All
without writing to a Registry or a .ini file.

That's all I am saying.

Lets say on the FE you have code which registers itself with the BE and the
BE holds values to indicate, for example.

1.How many installed copies it will allow and details of these.
2. Howe many concurrent users are permitted and logs them on/off as they
connect to it.  Code to inform the users of what is happening (ie, sorry you
have exceeded the licenced concurrent users,  please log off".
3. Expirary date, renewal date, oh endless stuff.

And so on.

Max


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust
Sent: 25 August 2009 01:41
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev

We're talking .Net here, Max.  Commercial applications.  We do NOT want
them to install this on every machine they own, only licensed copies.
Their mdbs may be SQL Server and their admins have access to the data,
even though the users can't get there.  It's a little more complicated
than it sounds.  When the app was in Access, we did something in the
mdbs.  That is obsolete these days (can you say Citrix?), so we have to
move with the times.

Charlotte Foust

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 4:28 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev

As I keep saying, put it in User Defined Properties  in the FE and BE -
cannot be beaten - travels with the MDB and no way of seeing it.
Encrypt it too if you want.

No Registry, no .ini, no visible signs.

Max


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From max.wanadoo at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 14:34:15 2009
From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 20:34:15 +0100
Subject: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...
In-Reply-To: <4dd71a0c0908241631o7b3bf02cl7bac65ede528ccd5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <003301ca24e1$c0a99060$41fcb120$@spb.ru>	<4a92d5e6.0a1ad00a.0893.0512@mx.google.com>	<003801ca24e7$6acb15a0$406140e0$@spb.ru>	<4a9321b5.0707d00a.07f0.76d4@mx.google.com>
	<4dd71a0c0908241631o7b3bf02cl7bac65ede528ccd5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4a943cd4.1c07d00a.2460.4d38@mx.google.com>

H is for aitch.

All cockneys know that.

Max


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele
Sent: 25 August 2009 00:32
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...

Isn't A for 'orses?

Doug

On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 4:26 PM, Max Wanadoo <max.wanadoo at gmail.com> wrote:

> Well actually we have quite a few single letter word.
>
> A? as in, what?
> C? as in, see I told you so"
> K? as in, OK.
> O! as in, Oh!
> P. as in Pee.
> T. as in Tea.
> U. as in You.
> Y. as in Why.
>
>
_______________________________________________
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http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From bheid at sc.rr.com  Tue Aug 25 17:21:51 2009
From: bheid at sc.rr.com (Bobby Heid)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 18:21:51 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] [AccessD] OT: 2008 Server drivers
In-Reply-To: <4A935A48.3010204@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <4A935A48.3010204@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <002701ca25d2$7216b0d0$56441270$@rr.com>

It is my understanding that Vista (maybe Vista SP1) and 2008 share the same
code base.

Thanks,
Bobby

-----Original Message-----
From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 11:28 PM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA
Subject: [AccessD] OT: 2008 Server drivers

I have decided to install 2008 Server Enterprise, 64 bit on one of my
machines.  I am wondering what 
server 2008 "looks like", or where it comes from.  Is it 2003 based?  Vista
based?

I am wondering where to go for chipset drivers.  It installed just fine and
started downloading 
updates.  As I write this it appears that one of the updates (or something)
caused a blue screen. 
We shall see if it blew the install out of the water.

To be honest I was impressed that the install worked at all.

-- 
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com
-- 
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com




From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Wed Aug 26 08:04:15 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 09:04:15 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Dreamspark - FREE DEVELOPER SOFTWARE for students
Message-ID: <4A9532CF.1060505@colbyconsulting.com>

Yesterday I registered at my local community college for a C# class.  In talking to the teacher I 
discovered that Microsoft is giving away software to students.  In order to get the software you 
must have an email address that ends in .edu, which you would get through your school.

I am currently downloading VS 2008 Professional!

Go to:

www.dreamspark.com

Available software:

Visual Studio 2008 Professional
SQL Server 2008 Professional
Windows Server 2008 Standard
Virtual PC
Expression Studio 3
Robotics Developer Studio 2008
XNA game studio 3.1

as well as links to all of the express editions of visual studio (which is already free).  I'm not 
even sure what those last three are.

Conspicuously missing is any version of Office.  But for us developers...

The software comes as an ISO so you will have to burn it to disk or otherwise mount it on a virtual 
disk drive.

BTW AFAICT this may also be available for students "overseas" as we in the US call it.

As for Office, I think I already mentioned:

http://www.microsoft.com/student/discounts/theultimatesteal-us/default.aspx


-- 
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


From Gustav at cactus.dk  Fri Aug 28 05:18:22 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 12:18:22 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] FTP and email in .Net
Message-ID: <sa97cb24.001@cactus.dk>

Hi John et al

If you wish to test sending of e-mail without actually sending it, you'll need a dummy SMTP server or a mock.
I found a very simple one (or rather the C# code to build one) here:

  http://geekswithblogs.net/imilovanovic/archive/2004/09/27/11783.aspx 

Call it like this:

  SmtpMock smtpServerMock = new SmtpMock ();   
  smtpServerMock.Start();  
  System.Web.Mail.SmtpMail.SmtpServer = "localhost";   
  System.Web.Mail.SmtpMail.Send("somebody at foo.com", "everybody at bar.com", "This is the subject", "This is the body.");  
  smtpServerMock.Stop ();

It keeps the log in SessionProtocol.

I'll test this at a later occasion.

/gustav


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 5:27 PM
To: VBA
Subject: [dba-VB] FTP and email in .Net

I am looking (Google) for how to ftp and email in .Net and am not finding anything.  Is this "built in" or otherwise readily available?

-- 
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com 





From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Fri Aug 28 08:11:18 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 09:11:18 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
Message-ID: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>

I am looking at doing an application in C# that needs to be able to run on user systems around the 
country, but manipulate data in a common location.  IOW employees can be anywhere, running this 
program on their machine, but reading / writing data to a central server.

It is a fairly simple application in terms of the data, a hand full of fairly stable and short list 
tables that feed combos, and a couple of "log" kind of tables that document processes.  It would be 
nice to have access to a fairly complex directory structure containing data files that need to be 
imported by and exported from this program.  Again these files are small, less than a thousand lines 
of data, fixed width or CSV.  I am looking at the files now and the largest appear to be 80K or so.

I am thinking that a VPN tunnel to allow access to the data directories, which are then mapped to a 
drive on the local workstation.  Some kind of data store on the server, perhaps SQL Server Express. 
  A local data store to do the import into, manipulation / cleanup of data, export back to files on 
the remote server directory structure.

I am wondering if you guys have experience in setting up this kind of a server and application to 
work on such a server.

-- 
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


From ebarro at verizon.net  Fri Aug 28 08:54:25 2009
From: ebarro at verizon.net (Eric Barro)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 06:54:25 -0700
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <A0EE8D558F30475DA302FCEDB2F81D4F@advancedinput.com>

John,

This is a good candidate for a web service. A web service allows you to
expose certain methods to client machines outside the network.

1. Basically in terms of servers you will need a web server and a database
server (one physical server is possible but two are better due to security
issues).
2. The web server exposes the web service application and takes care of
authentication to the database server. The web server is the only one that
is publicly accessible from the outside.

This saves you from having to set up VPN client software on the client
machines and also saves you from having to purchase hardware to run the VPN
on the server side.

Eric


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 6:11 AM
To: VBA
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet

I am looking at doing an application in C# that needs to be able to run on
user systems around the country, but manipulate data in a common location.
IOW employees can be anywhere, running this program on their machine, but
reading / writing data to a central server.

It is a fairly simple application in terms of the data, a hand full of
fairly stable and short list tables that feed combos, and a couple of "log"
kind of tables that document processes.  It would be nice to have access to
a fairly complex directory structure containing data files that need to be
imported by and exported from this program.  Again these files are small,
less than a thousand lines of data, fixed width or CSV.  I am looking at the
files now and the largest appear to be 80K or so.

I am thinking that a VPN tunnel to allow access to the data directories,
which are then mapped to a drive on the local workstation.  Some kind of
data store on the server, perhaps SQL Server Express. 
  A local data store to do the import into, manipulation / cleanup of data,
export back to files on the remote server directory structure.

I am wondering if you guys have experience in setting up this kind of a
server and application to work on such a server.

--
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com
_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From Gustav at cactus.dk  Fri Aug 28 09:04:50 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 16:04:50 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
Message-ID: <sa98004c.008@cactus.dk>

Hi John

A well-proven method would be to read and write these files from/to an FTP server.
Another method is to store the files as fields in an SQL Server.

Both of these methods, however, may run into trouble meeting clients' firewalls and won't work at all if the server is off-line.

A novel approach would be store them at Amazon Web Services. This is incredible cheap and frees you from running a central server of any kind.

Finally, like Eric tells, the probably fastest method to setup is a web service - could be hosted anywhere.
The VPN method and shared drives I would only recommend for a corporate setup.

It could be interesting following your considerations and solution for the project.

/gustav


>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-08-2009 15:11 >>>
I am looking at doing an application in C# that needs to be able to run on user systems around the 
country, but manipulate data in a common location.  IOW employees can be anywhere, running this 
program on their machine, but reading / writing data to a central server.

It is a fairly simple application in terms of the data, a hand full of fairly stable and short list 
tables that feed combos, and a couple of "log" kind of tables that document processes.  It would be 
nice to have access to a fairly complex directory structure containing data files that need to be 
imported by and exported from this program.  Again these files are small, less than a thousand lines 
of data, fixed width or CSV.  I am looking at the files now and the largest appear to be 80K or so.

I am thinking that a VPN tunnel to allow access to the data directories, which are then mapped to a 
drive on the local workstation.  Some kind of data store on the server, perhaps SQL Server Express. 
  A local data store to do the import into, manipulation / cleanup of data, export back to files on 
the remote server directory structure.

I am wondering if you guys have experience in setting up this kind of a server and application to 
work on such a server.

-- 
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com 





From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Fri Aug 28 10:43:03 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 11:43:03 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <A0EE8D558F30475DA302FCEDB2F81D4F@advancedinput.com>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>
	<A0EE8D558F30475DA302FCEDB2F81D4F@advancedinput.com>
Message-ID: <4A97FB07.9090701@colbyconsulting.com>

Eric,

Thanks for the response.  I assume you are discussing a "browser based application"?

If so there are a couple of issues that I see.
1) I would have to learn a whole new paradigm from scratch.
2) Multi-user issues.

The client is a SOHO with "employees" consisting mostly of family members, who would work from their 
homes.  I understand the "setup" issues but at least for now that would be a very small number of 
machines.  I just talked to the client and, for example, he has two production scanners, one in CT 
and the other in Nashville.  It would be nice for each scanner to drop the scanned files (CSV files) 
into a common directory structure in the office in CT.  The program would then pull the CSVs across 
the internet into the local instance wherever that might be, import it into a local data store, 
process the data, then export the tables back out into a fixed width file back in the same server 
(different path) that the CSV came from.

You get the picture.  The thing that might make this work is that the files are tiny, 80 kb is the 
biggest I have seen so far.  I am actually looking at installing Hamachi on each of his "satellite 
offices" PCs, and building a virtual network around that Hamachi client.

I don't contend that this solution works for a huge system but not every system is huge!  And if it 
gets huge then the money will be there to support hardware VPNs etc.  Or even a port to a web 
service at that point.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Eric Barro wrote:
> John,
> 
> This is a good candidate for a web service. A web service allows you to
> expose certain methods to client machines outside the network.
> 
> 1. Basically in terms of servers you will need a web server and a database
> server (one physical server is possible but two are better due to security
> issues).
> 2. The web server exposes the web service application and takes care of
> authentication to the database server. The web server is the only one that
> is publicly accessible from the outside.
> 
> This saves you from having to set up VPN client software on the client
> machines and also saves you from having to purchase hardware to run the VPN
> on the server side.
> 
> Eric



From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Fri Aug 28 11:19:23 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 12:19:23 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <sa98004c.008@cactus.dk>
References: <sa98004c.008@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <4A98038B.9060806@colbyconsulting.com>

Gustav,

I have been working with this client refactoring the existing application.  It is in Access, and 
works entirely local to his SOHO.  In fact ATM he only has one or two computers running the 
application.  It has a single form about 10 fields, about 10 tables feeding combos and such.

He scans documents received from his clients, using Omnipage.  The user manually selects areas of 
documents and converts those to tables, the Omnipage software does that.  The documents are 
converted to CSV files and stored in a rather elaborate directory structure, probably about 150 
directories total.  Each directory can hold scans of many different documents.  That is all "front 
end" processing and the application is not CURRENTLY involved in that.

The application then imports each document, corrects scan errors, the user potentially manually 
edits fields in specific records if there is an OCR error where the fixit code didn't fix it.  The 
user does some analysis of the data.  Once satisfied with the edits, the data is exported back to a 
fixed width file which is a government specified format.  Those files are returned to his clients.

The application is really simple.  But he does want to be able to have several scanners in remote 
locations doing the scanning, and several instances of the application doing the conversion of the 
CSVs, and writing back to this fixed width file format, all reads / writes to a central location.

I think a simple Hamachi VPN is going to do the trick.  Being a SOHO and satellites in his kid's 
homes, corporate firewalls are less of an issue.  What is an issue is cost and complexity.  He and I 
ARE the IT department, and in the future IT will mostly be me.

So far what I have done for him has impressed.  He has another application planned which could be 
for sale.  That would be larger, would have to be more robust and a web application might be in 
order.  Even there though it appears that his clients are often smallish companies that might not 
have IT staff or not a big IT staff.

So I am coming up to speed on .net, C# etc in order to meet the future.  I think that this first app 
doesn't really NEED C#, it could be done totally in Access (it currently is in Access).  I do think 
that C# would be more robust and easier to update, upgrade and would handle some of the possible 
issues with talking to a centralized SQL Server instance a little easier.  If I have to go unbound / 
disconnected I might as well do it in C# or a cousin.

So I thought I would port it "for free".  Once the C# version does what the Access version already 
does and the client signs off on it, then I would go back to paid work on future stuff.  I need a 
live app in .Net to get me in Visual Studio on a daily basis.  I have done a fair amount of VB.Net 
stuff but without a reason to keep at it, it tends to be dropped after awhile.

 > A well-proven method would be to read and write these files from/to an FTP server.

I could certainly do that.  In fact I have to determine that Hamachi is actually capable to begin 
with, otherwise I will be back to casting around for solutions, and FTP might be the solution.

 > Another method is to store the files as fields in an SQL Server.

This is a great idea.  A simple application could monitor the directories and automatically open the 
files and import them into SQL Server.  Once in SQL Server, the current application would process 
SQL Server records instead of CSV files.  Likewise exporting the records back to the fixed width 
files for return to the client.

I will definitely have to keep that in mind.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi John
> 
> A well-proven method would be to read and write these files from/to an FTP server.
> Another method is to store the files as fields in an SQL Server.
> 
> Both of these methods, however, may run into trouble meeting clients' firewalls and won't work at all if the server is off-line.
> 
> A novel approach would be store them at Amazon Web Services. This is incredible cheap and frees you from running a central server of any kind.
> 
> Finally, like Eric tells, the probably fastest method to setup is a web service - could be hosted anywhere.
> The VPN method and shared drives I would only recommend for a corporate setup.
> 
> It could be interesting following your considerations and solution for the project.
> 
> /gustav



From Gustav at cactus.dk  Fri Aug 28 11:49:22 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 18:49:22 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
Message-ID: <sa9826c0.009@cactus.dk>

Hi John

OK, that gives a better picture. This is not a "corporate" project.

If you almost have the application running in Access, a close to zero cost (wild?) option would be to establish a shared drive with the Gladinet Cloud Desktop:

  http://www.gladinet.com 

which creates a local drive from one of these storage options:

Amazon Simple Storage Service (S3)
Google Picasa* Program
Google Docs* Program
Folders from Remote PCs - Standard Version only

Monthly costs at these remote storages are either free or extremely low.
One issue would be the sharing of single files but - if stored as discrete files - you will have to manage this somehow no matter what solution you decide for.

/gustav


>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-08-2009 18:19 >>>
Gustav,

I have been working with this client refactoring the existing application.  It is in Access, and 
works entirely local to his SOHO.  In fact ATM he only has one or two computers running the 
application.  It has a single form about 10 fields, about 10 tables feeding combos and such.

He scans documents received from his clients, using Omnipage.  The user manually selects areas of 
documents and converts those to tables, the Omnipage software does that.  The documents are 
converted to CSV files and stored in a rather elaborate directory structure, probably about 150 
directories total.  Each directory can hold scans of many different documents.  That is all "front 
end" processing and the application is not CURRENTLY involved in that.

The application then imports each document, corrects scan errors, the user potentially manually 
edits fields in specific records if there is an OCR error where the fixit code didn't fix it.  The 
user does some analysis of the data.  Once satisfied with the edits, the data is exported back to a 
fixed width file which is a government specified format.  Those files are returned to his clients.

The application is really simple.  But he does want to be able to have several scanners in remote 
locations doing the scanning, and several instances of the application doing the conversion of the 
CSVs, and writing back to this fixed width file format, all reads / writes to a central location.

I think a simple Hamachi VPN is going to do the trick.  Being a SOHO and satellites in his kid's 
homes, corporate firewalls are less of an issue.  What is an issue is cost and complexity.  He and I 
ARE the IT department, and in the future IT will mostly be me.

So far what I have done for him has impressed.  He has another application planned which could be 
for sale.  That would be larger, would have to be more robust and a web application might be in 
order.  Even there though it appears that his clients are often smallish companies that might not 
have IT staff or not a big IT staff.

So I am coming up to speed on .net, C# etc in order to meet the future.  I think that this first app 
doesn't really NEED C#, it could be done totally in Access (it currently is in Access).  I do think 
that C# would be more robust and easier to update, upgrade and would handle some of the possible 
issues with talking to a centralized SQL Server instance a little easier.  If I have to go unbound / 
disconnected I might as well do it in C# or a cousin.

So I thought I would port it "for free".  Once the C# version does what the Access version already 
does and the client signs off on it, then I would go back to paid work on future stuff.  I need a 
live app in .Net to get me in Visual Studio on a daily basis.  I have done a fair amount of VB.Net 
stuff but without a reason to keep at it, it tends to be dropped after awhile.

 > A well-proven method would be to read and write these files from/to an FTP server.

I could certainly do that.  In fact I have to determine that Hamachi is actually capable to begin 
with, otherwise I will be back to casting around for solutions, and FTP might be the solution.

 > Another method is to store the files as fields in an SQL Server.

This is a great idea.  A simple application could monitor the directories and automatically open the 
files and import them into SQL Server.  Once in SQL Server, the current application would process 
SQL Server records instead of CSV files.  Likewise exporting the records back to the fixed width 
files for return to the client.

I will definitely have to keep that in mind.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com 


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi John
> 
> A well-proven method would be to read and write these files from/to an FTP server.
> Another method is to store the files as fields in an SQL Server.
> 
> Both of these methods, however, may run into trouble meeting clients' firewalls and won't work at all if the server is off-line.
> 
> A novel approach would be store them at Amazon Web Services. This is incredible cheap and frees you from running a central server of any kind.
> 
> Finally, like Eric tells, the probably fastest method to setup is a web service - could be hosted anywhere.
> The VPN method and shared drives I would only recommend for a corporate setup.
> 
> It could be interesting following your considerations and solution for the project.
> 
> /gustav




From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Fri Aug 28 12:43:18 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 13:43:18 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] SPAM-LOW:  Re:  Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <sa9826c0.009@cactus.dk>
References: <sa9826c0.009@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <4A981736.6050900@colbyconsulting.com>

Gustav,

I have Hamachi already in place on the client's server as well as my system.  I routinely remote 
desktop in to his machine already.  I had set up the path to the data files (in / out) as a SysVar 
and so I mapped his remote database directory (on his server) to y: on my dev machine here at my 
office and changed my sysvar to point to the new location.

I then ran the existing Access application.  I set up my timer class to time the import, which uses 
a simple docmd.transfertext to pull the data from the CSV file into a first stage processing table.

Looking at five different runs, the time to import 835 records from a CSV file into a local table, 
across the internet using Hamachi is

Import From File took 72915 Milliseconds
Cleanup of raw data took 2354 Milliseconds
Import From File took 59250 Milliseconds
Cleanup of raw data took 4319 Milliseconds
Import From File took 23369 Milliseconds
Cleanup of raw data took 3307 Milliseconds
Import From File took 23354 Milliseconds
Cleanup of raw data took 3447 Milliseconds
Import From File took 23353 Milliseconds
Cleanup of raw data took 3181 Milliseconds

I had done a couple of runs before I set up the timer and the times there were approximately 24 
seconds as well.  So the "normal" time is around 24 seconds, but it can be quite lengthy as you can 
see, 73 seconds in the worst case so far.

What was going on during those longer time imports is unknown.  The server is being used to store 
these scan files as well as process them.  OTOH the server is also a 750 mhz pentium machine, pretty 
slow as servers go.  We have a new server ready to go online.

And of course this assumes fast internet at both ends.

I also built a button to allow them to open the source CSV files in notepad.  That only took

Time to open the file in Notepad 4930 Milliseconds
Time to open the file in Notepad 4290 Milliseconds
Time to open the file in Notepad 2855 Milliseconds
Time to open the file in Notepad 4274 Milliseconds

So obviously the import process itself is taking a fair amount of time.

Anyway... I would guess that for a small company like this, a Hamachi VPN to a central server is 
going to work quite well.  Low cost, reasonably fast, and easy to set up.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi John
> 
> OK, that gives a better picture. This is not a "corporate" project.
> 
> If you almost have the application running in Access, a close to zero cost (wild?) option would be to establish a shared drive with the Gladinet Cloud Desktop:
> 
>   http://www.gladinet.com 
> 
> which creates a local drive from one of these storage options:
> 
> Amazon Simple Storage Service (S3)
> Google Picasa* Program
> Google Docs* Program
> Folders from Remote PCs - Standard Version only
> 
> Monthly costs at these remote storages are either free or extremely low.
> One issue would be the sharing of single files but - if stored as discrete files - you will have to manage this somehow no matter what solution you decide for.
> 
> /gustav



From Gustav at cactus.dk  Fri Aug 28 13:31:00 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 20:31:00 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
Message-ID: <sa983eac.012@cactus.dk>

Hi John

That seems a bit slow to me but when it is set up and running and the price is right it should be fine - I mean, 73 seconds, should it matter?

/gustav


>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-08-2009 19:43 >>>
Gustav,

I have Hamachi already in place on the client's server as well as my system.  I routinely remote 
desktop in to his machine already.  I had set up the path to the data files (in / out) as a SysVar 
and so I mapped his remote database directory (on his server) to y: on my dev machine here at my 
office and changed my sysvar to point to the new location.

I then ran the existing Access application.  I set up my timer class to time the import, which uses 
a simple docmd.transfertext to pull the data from the CSV file into a first stage processing table.

Looking at five different runs, the time to import 835 records from a CSV file into a local table, 
across the internet using Hamachi is

Import From File took 72915 Milliseconds
Cleanup of raw data took 2354 Milliseconds
Import From File took 59250 Milliseconds
Cleanup of raw data took 4319 Milliseconds
Import From File took 23369 Milliseconds
Cleanup of raw data took 3307 Milliseconds
Import From File took 23354 Milliseconds
Cleanup of raw data took 3447 Milliseconds
Import From File took 23353 Milliseconds
Cleanup of raw data took 3181 Milliseconds

I had done a couple of runs before I set up the timer and the times there were approximately 24 
seconds as well.  So the "normal" time is around 24 seconds, but it can be quite lengthy as you can 
see, 73 seconds in the worst case so far.

What was going on during those longer time imports is unknown.  The server is being used to store 
these scan files as well as process them.  OTOH the server is also a 750 mhz pentium machine, pretty 
slow as servers go.  We have a new server ready to go online.

And of course this assumes fast internet at both ends.

I also built a button to allow them to open the source CSV files in notepad.  That only took

Time to open the file in Notepad 4930 Milliseconds
Time to open the file in Notepad 4290 Milliseconds
Time to open the file in Notepad 2855 Milliseconds
Time to open the file in Notepad 4274 Milliseconds

So obviously the import process itself is taking a fair amount of time.

Anyway... I would guess that for a small company like this, a Hamachi VPN to a central server is 
going to work quite well.  Low cost, reasonably fast, and easy to set up.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com 


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi John
> 
> OK, that gives a better picture. This is not a "corporate" project.
> 
> If you almost have the application running in Access, a close to zero cost (wild?) option would be to establish a shared drive with the Gladinet Cloud Desktop:
> 
>   http://www.gladinet.com 
> 
> which creates a local drive from one of these storage options:
> 
> Amazon Simple Storage Service (S3)
> Google Picasa* Program
> Google Docs* Program
> Folders from Remote PCs - Standard Version only
> 
> Monthly costs at these remote storages are either free or extremely low.
> One issue would be the sharing of single files but - if stored as discrete files - you will have to manage this somehow no matter what solution you decide for.
> 
> /gustav





From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Fri Aug 28 14:08:51 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:08:51 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] SPAM-LOW:  Re:  Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <sa983eac.012@cactus.dk>
References: <sa983eac.012@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <4A982B43.60402@colbyconsulting.com>

Especially if 24 seconds is the "norm".  Yea, that's not real time but it is over the internet, and 
it is the most complex file handled so far.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi John
> 
> That seems a bit slow to me but when it is set up and running and the price is right it should be fine - I mean, 73 seconds, should it matter?
> 
> /gustav
> 
> 
>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-08-2009 19:43 >>>
> Gustav,
> 
> I have Hamachi already in place on the client's server as well as my system.  I routinely remote 
> desktop in to his machine already.  I had set up the path to the data files (in / out) as a SysVar 
> and so I mapped his remote database directory (on his server) to y: on my dev machine here at my 
> office and changed my sysvar to point to the new location.
> 
> I then ran the existing Access application.  I set up my timer class to time the import, which uses 
> a simple docmd.transfertext to pull the data from the CSV file into a first stage processing table.
> 
> Looking at five different runs, the time to import 835 records from a CSV file into a local table, 
> across the internet using Hamachi is
> 
> Import From File took 72915 Milliseconds
> Cleanup of raw data took 2354 Milliseconds
> Import From File took 59250 Milliseconds
> Cleanup of raw data took 4319 Milliseconds
> Import From File took 23369 Milliseconds
> Cleanup of raw data took 3307 Milliseconds
> Import From File took 23354 Milliseconds
> Cleanup of raw data took 3447 Milliseconds
> Import From File took 23353 Milliseconds
> Cleanup of raw data took 3181 Milliseconds
> 
> I had done a couple of runs before I set up the timer and the times there were approximately 24 
> seconds as well.  So the "normal" time is around 24 seconds, but it can be quite lengthy as you can 
> see, 73 seconds in the worst case so far.
> 
> What was going on during those longer time imports is unknown.  The server is being used to store 
> these scan files as well as process them.  OTOH the server is also a 750 mhz pentium machine, pretty 
> slow as servers go.  We have a new server ready to go online.
> 
> And of course this assumes fast internet at both ends.
> 
> I also built a button to allow them to open the source CSV files in notepad.  That only took
> 
> Time to open the file in Notepad 4930 Milliseconds
> Time to open the file in Notepad 4290 Milliseconds
> Time to open the file in Notepad 2855 Milliseconds
> Time to open the file in Notepad 4274 Milliseconds
> 
> So obviously the import process itself is taking a fair amount of time.
> 
> Anyway... I would guess that for a small company like this, a Hamachi VPN to a central server is 
> going to work quite well.  Low cost, reasonably fast, and easy to set up.
> 
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com 



From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Fri Aug 28 14:29:59 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:29:59 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] SPAM-LOW:  Re:  Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <sa983eac.012@cactus.dk>
References: <sa983eac.012@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <4A983037.50105@colbyconsulting.com>

Gustav,

I created a shared directory on my "new" Windows 2008 server and copied the data file directory 
structure to there.  I then remoted in to the client's machine, mapped that new directory on my 
server back to my client's machine drive Y.  Copied my latest version of the FE to his machine and 
ran.

I am therefore now running the application on his server where I do dev work for him when not 
developing on my machine in my office.  I have mapped a directory on my server over Hamachi to Y: on 
that server in his office.  Running the same code:

Time to open the file in Notepad 2156 Milliseconds
Time to open the file in Notepad 500 Milliseconds
Time to open the file in Notepad 594 Milliseconds

Import From File took 5000 Milliseconds
Cleanup of raw data took 3750 Milliseconds
Import From File took 5016 Milliseconds
Cleanup of raw data took 3390 Milliseconds
Import From File took 4531 Milliseconds
Cleanup of raw data took 9031 Milliseconds
Import From File took 4547 Milliseconds
Cleanup of raw data took 3094 Milliseconds

As you can see, my times for the import process is now MUCH faster.  The file server is now hosted 
on my quad core (2 ghz real clock AMD) with 8 gigs of ram running Windows 2008.  BTW My upload speed 
(out of my office to the internet) is not particularly blazing at .5 mbit / second.

I have to conclude that the bottleneck is the server processing speed.  When I was running the app 
on my laptop accessing data at his office, the server was a single core Pentium III 500 mhz machine 
(just checked) running Windows XP SP3 and 256 MB of ram.

Obviously having a new server at his end will help!

I think these numbers are suddenly very usable.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi John
> 
> That seems a bit slow to me but when it is set up and running and the price is right it should be fine - I mean, 73 seconds, should it matter?
> 
> /gustav
> 
> 
>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-08-2009 19:43 >>>
> Gustav,
> 
> I have Hamachi already in place on the client's server as well as my system.  I routinely remote 
> desktop in to his machine already.  I had set up the path to the data files (in / out) as a SysVar 
> and so I mapped his remote database directory (on his server) to y: on my dev machine here at my 
> office and changed my sysvar to point to the new location.
> 
> I then ran the existing Access application.  I set up my timer class to time the import, which uses 
> a simple docmd.transfertext to pull the data from the CSV file into a first stage processing table.
> 
> Looking at five different runs, the time to import 835 records from a CSV file into a local table, 
> across the internet using Hamachi is
> 
> Import From File took 72915 Milliseconds
> Cleanup of raw data took 2354 Milliseconds
> Import From File took 59250 Milliseconds
> Cleanup of raw data took 4319 Milliseconds
> Import From File took 23369 Milliseconds
> Cleanup of raw data took 3307 Milliseconds
> Import From File took 23354 Milliseconds
> Cleanup of raw data took 3447 Milliseconds
> Import From File took 23353 Milliseconds
> Cleanup of raw data took 3181 Milliseconds
> 
> I had done a couple of runs before I set up the timer and the times there were approximately 24 
> seconds as well.  So the "normal" time is around 24 seconds, but it can be quite lengthy as you can 
> see, 73 seconds in the worst case so far.
> 
> What was going on during those longer time imports is unknown.  The server is being used to store 
> these scan files as well as process them.  OTOH the server is also a 750 mhz pentium machine, pretty 
> slow as servers go.  We have a new server ready to go online.
> 
> And of course this assumes fast internet at both ends.
> 
> I also built a button to allow them to open the source CSV files in notepad.  That only took
> 
> Time to open the file in Notepad 4930 Milliseconds
> Time to open the file in Notepad 4290 Milliseconds
> Time to open the file in Notepad 2855 Milliseconds
> Time to open the file in Notepad 4274 Milliseconds
> 
> So obviously the import process itself is taking a fair amount of time.
> 
> Anyway... I would guess that for a small company like this, a Hamachi VPN to a central server is 
> going to work quite well.  Low cost, reasonably fast, and easy to set up.
> 
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com 



From john at winhaven.net  Sat Aug 29 12:32:59 2009
From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 12:32:59 -0500
Subject: [dba-VB] Test2
Message-ID: <00bf01ca28ce$c15779f0$44066dd0$@net>

Test2

No trees were killed in the sending of this message, but a large number of
electrons were terribly inconvenienced.




From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Sat Aug 29 13:19:04 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 22:19:04 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <A0EE8D558F30475DA302FCEDB2F81D4F@advancedinput.com>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>
	<A0EE8D558F30475DA302FCEDB2F81D4F@advancedinput.com>
Message-ID: <002101ca28d5$3357af10$9a070d30$@spb.ru>

Yes, web service would be a good solution here.

I have made a test web service, which is located here:

http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx


You can test it using this code (c#):

using System;

namespace WebServiceDirectTestConsole
{
    class Program
    {
        //
        // Add ASP.NET 2.0 web service reference:
        //
http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx
        //
        static void Main(string[] args)
        {
            try
            {
                const int CALLS_QTY = 10;

                DateTime startTime = DateTime.Now;

 
WebServiceDirectTestConsole.FileServiceSample.WebServiceFacade
                    service = new
WebServiceDirectTestConsole.FileServiceSample.WebServiceFacade();
                
 
//http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/LoremIpsum.txt (50KB)
                string p = @"c:\temp\LoremIpsum.txt";
                string fileName = "testFile";
                string fileText = System.IO.File.ReadAllText(p);
                string text = null;

                for (int i = 1; i <= CALLS_QTY; i++)
                {
                    service.StoreFile(fileName + i.ToString(), fileText);
                    text = service.GetFile(fileName + i.ToString());
                }

                text = service.GetWebServiceUsageStatistics();

                Console.WriteLine(text);

                DateTime endTime = DateTime.Now;

                double elapsedTime = ((TimeSpan)(endTime -
startTime)).TotalSeconds;

                Console.WriteLine("Elapsed Time = {0:#0.00} seconds for {1}
calls ({2}s/call, fileSize = {3})",
                    elapsedTime, CALLS_QTY, elapsedTime / CALLS_QTY,
fileText.Length);

            }
            catch (Exception ex)
            {
                Console.WriteLine(ex.Message);
            }
        }
    }
}

One of the results of the above test runs is the following:

Total Web Calls: 20
Total Web Calls Duration: 20 ticks
Total Store File Web Calls: 10
Total Store File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
Total Get File Web Calls: 10
Total Get File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
Total Delete File Web Calls: 0
Total Delete File Web Calls Duration: 0 ticks
Currently Stored Files: 10
Currently Stored Files  Length: 503440

FILES
-----
fileName = testFile1, length = 50344
fileName = testFile2, length = 50344
fileName = testFile3, length = 50344
fileName = testFile4, length = 50344
fileName = testFile5, length = 50344
fileName = testFile6, length = 50344
fileName = testFile7, length = 50344
fileName = testFile8, length = 50344
fileName = testFile9, length = 50344
fileName = testFile10, length = 50344

Elapsed Time = 6,80 seconds for 10 calls (0,6799s/call, fileSize = 50467)


If you are interested we can make intensive test of this sample web service.

(I personally would be interested in such testing.)
I will make all its source code (simple) available on
northwind.codeplex.com.
This sample web service has already MS Access/VBA callable wrapper ActiveX
DLLs.

Thank you.

--
Shamil

P.S. Here is how the same web service can be called from MS Access/VBA using
ActiveX DLL wrapper library:

Option Compare Database
Option Explicit

Public Function TestWebServiceAdv()
Dim service As New MSAccessWebService
Const CALLS_QTY As Integer = 10
    Dim startTime As Date
    startTime = Now
    
    '//http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/LoremIpsum.txt (50KB)
    Dim p As String
    p = "c:\temp\LoremIpsum.txt"
    
    Dim fileName As String
    fileName = "testFile"
    Dim fileText As String
    fileText = ReadAllText(p)
    Dim text As String
    Dim i As Integer

    For i = 1 To CALLS_QTY Step 1
        service.StoreFile fileName + CStr(i), fileText
        text = service.GetFile(fileName + CStr(i))
    Next i
    
    Dim endTime As Date
    endTime = Now
    
    text = service.GetWebServiceUsageStatistics()
    Debug.Print text
    
    Dim elapsedTime As Double
    elapsedTime = DateDiff("s", startTime, endTime)
    Debug.Print elapsedTime & " seconds per " & _
           CStr(CALLS_QTY) & " calls"
End Function
                
Private Function ReadAllText(filePath As String) _
   As String
Dim text As String
Dim fn As Integer
Dim fileLen As Long
    fn = FreeFile
    Open filePath For Input As #fn
    fileLen = LOF(fn)
    text = Input(fileLen, fn)
    Close fn
    ReadAllText = text
End Function

One of the test calls results is the following:

Total Web Calls: 20
Total Web Calls Duration: 20 ticks
Total Store File Web Calls: 10
Total Store File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
Total Get File Web Calls: 10
Total Get File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
Total Delete File Web Calls: 0
Total Delete File Web Calls Duration: 0 ticks
Currently Stored Files: 10
Currently Stored Files  Length: 503460

FILES
-----
fileName = testFile1, length = 50346
fileName = testFile2, length = 50346
fileName = testFile3, length = 50346
fileName = testFile4, length = 50346
fileName = testFile5, length = 50346
fileName = testFile6, length = 50346
fileName = testFile7, length = 50346
fileName = testFile8, length = 50346
fileName = testFile9, length = 50346
fileName = testFile10, length = 50346

8 seconds per 10 calls


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Eric Barro
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 5:54 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet

John,

This is a good candidate for a web service. A web service allows you to
expose certain methods to client machines outside the network.

1. Basically in terms of servers you will need a web server and a database
server (one physical server is possible but two are better due to security
issues).
2. The web server exposes the web service application and takes care of
authentication to the database server. The web server is the only one that
is publicly accessible from the outside.

This saves you from having to set up VPN client software on the client
machines and also saves you from having to purchase hardware to run the VPN
on the server side.

Eric


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 6:11 AM
To: VBA
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet

I am looking at doing an application in C# that needs to be able to run on
user systems around the country, but manipulate data in a common location.
IOW employees can be anywhere, running this program on their machine, but
reading / writing data to a central server.

It is a fairly simple application in terms of the data, a hand full of
fairly stable and short list tables that feed combos, and a couple of "log"
kind of tables that document processes.  It would be nice to have access to
a fairly complex directory structure containing data files that need to be
imported by and exported from this program.  Again these files are small,
less than a thousand lines of data, fixed width or CSV.  I am looking at the
files now and the largest appear to be 80K or so.

I am thinking that a VPN tunnel to allow access to the data directories,
which are then mapped to a drive on the local workstation.  Some kind of
data store on the server, perhaps SQL Server Express. 
  A local data store to do the import into, manipulation / cleanup of data,
export back to files on the remote server directory structure.

I am wondering if you guys have experience in setting up this kind of a
server and application to work on such a server.

--
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com
_______________________________________________




From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Sat Aug 29 14:15:39 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 15:15:39 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <002101ca28d5$3357af10$9a070d30$@spb.ru>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>	<A0EE8D558F30475DA302FCEDB2F81D4F@advancedinput.com>
	<002101ca28d5$3357af10$9a070d30$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <4A997E5B.20909@colbyconsulting.com>

Thanks Shamil.

What is missing here is an explanation.

1) What IS a web service?
2) What are the pieces, and what do they do?  I assume that there is a service and a client?
3) What is this web service doing?
4) Doesn't it seem that ...

getting IIS and SQL Server set up, writing web services, writing a DLL for the client Access 
database, getting the existing system using the DLL and installing the DLL on each machine...

doesn't all of that seem much more complicated than installing Hamachi and mapping a shared 
directory to a drive letter?

Now, having said that, I have a future project which (if you would slow down and explain just what 
the heck this stuff was) MIGHT be a perfect fit for this technology.  OTOH, the future project is a 
system that I hope to sell to small drug companies.  Whatever this stuff is has to be point and 
click installable as software at the client's site.

As I mentioned to Eric, I am listening, but so far I haven't understood a word of what I am hearing.

Perhaps a reference to some book, or article that explains this stuff step by step...?

Thanks,

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote:
> Yes, web service would be a good solution here.
> 
> I have made a test web service, which is located here:
> 
> http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx
> 
> 
> You can test it using this code (c#):
> 
> using System;
> 
> namespace WebServiceDirectTestConsole
> {
>     class Program
>     {
>         //
>         // Add ASP.NET 2.0 web service reference:
>         //
> http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx
>         //
>         static void Main(string[] args)
>         {
>             try
>             {
>                 const int CALLS_QTY = 10;
> 
>                 DateTime startTime = DateTime.Now;
> 
>  
> WebServiceDirectTestConsole.FileServiceSample.WebServiceFacade
>                     service = new
> WebServiceDirectTestConsole.FileServiceSample.WebServiceFacade();
>                 
>  
> //http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/LoremIpsum.txt (50KB)
>                 string p = @"c:\temp\LoremIpsum.txt";
>                 string fileName = "testFile";
>                 string fileText = System.IO.File.ReadAllText(p);
>                 string text = null;
> 
>                 for (int i = 1; i <= CALLS_QTY; i++)
>                 {
>                     service.StoreFile(fileName + i.ToString(), fileText);
>                     text = service.GetFile(fileName + i.ToString());
>                 }
> 
>                 text = service.GetWebServiceUsageStatistics();
> 
>                 Console.WriteLine(text);
> 
>                 DateTime endTime = DateTime.Now;
> 
>                 double elapsedTime = ((TimeSpan)(endTime -
> startTime)).TotalSeconds;
> 
>                 Console.WriteLine("Elapsed Time = {0:#0.00} seconds for {1}
> calls ({2}s/call, fileSize = {3})",
>                     elapsedTime, CALLS_QTY, elapsedTime / CALLS_QTY,
> fileText.Length);
> 
>             }
>             catch (Exception ex)
>             {
>                 Console.WriteLine(ex.Message);
>             }
>         }
>     }
> }
> 
> One of the results of the above test runs is the following:
> 
> Total Web Calls: 20
> Total Web Calls Duration: 20 ticks
> Total Store File Web Calls: 10
> Total Store File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
> Total Get File Web Calls: 10
> Total Get File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
> Total Delete File Web Calls: 0
> Total Delete File Web Calls Duration: 0 ticks
> Currently Stored Files: 10
> Currently Stored Files  Length: 503440
> 
> FILES
> -----
> fileName = testFile1, length = 50344
> fileName = testFile2, length = 50344
> fileName = testFile3, length = 50344
> fileName = testFile4, length = 50344
> fileName = testFile5, length = 50344
> fileName = testFile6, length = 50344
> fileName = testFile7, length = 50344
> fileName = testFile8, length = 50344
> fileName = testFile9, length = 50344
> fileName = testFile10, length = 50344
> 
> Elapsed Time = 6,80 seconds for 10 calls (0,6799s/call, fileSize = 50467)
> 
> 
> If you are interested we can make intensive test of this sample web service.
> 
> (I personally would be interested in such testing.)
> I will make all its source code (simple) available on
> northwind.codeplex.com.
> This sample web service has already MS Access/VBA callable wrapper ActiveX
> DLLs.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> --
> Shamil
> 
> P.S. Here is how the same web service can be called from MS Access/VBA using
> ActiveX DLL wrapper library:
> 
> Option Compare Database
> Option Explicit
> 
> Public Function TestWebServiceAdv()
> Dim service As New MSAccessWebService
> Const CALLS_QTY As Integer = 10
>     Dim startTime As Date
>     startTime = Now
>     
>     '//http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/LoremIpsum.txt (50KB)
>     Dim p As String
>     p = "c:\temp\LoremIpsum.txt"
>     
>     Dim fileName As String
>     fileName = "testFile"
>     Dim fileText As String
>     fileText = ReadAllText(p)
>     Dim text As String
>     Dim i As Integer
> 
>     For i = 1 To CALLS_QTY Step 1
>         service.StoreFile fileName + CStr(i), fileText
>         text = service.GetFile(fileName + CStr(i))
>     Next i
>     
>     Dim endTime As Date
>     endTime = Now
>     
>     text = service.GetWebServiceUsageStatistics()
>     Debug.Print text
>     
>     Dim elapsedTime As Double
>     elapsedTime = DateDiff("s", startTime, endTime)
>     Debug.Print elapsedTime & " seconds per " & _
>            CStr(CALLS_QTY) & " calls"
> End Function
>                 
> Private Function ReadAllText(filePath As String) _
>    As String
> Dim text As String
> Dim fn As Integer
> Dim fileLen As Long
>     fn = FreeFile
>     Open filePath For Input As #fn
>     fileLen = LOF(fn)
>     text = Input(fileLen, fn)
>     Close fn
>     ReadAllText = text
> End Function
> 
> One of the test calls results is the following:
> 
> Total Web Calls: 20
> Total Web Calls Duration: 20 ticks
> Total Store File Web Calls: 10
> Total Store File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
> Total Get File Web Calls: 10
> Total Get File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
> Total Delete File Web Calls: 0
> Total Delete File Web Calls Duration: 0 ticks
> Currently Stored Files: 10
> Currently Stored Files  Length: 503460
> 
> FILES
> -----
> fileName = testFile1, length = 50346
> fileName = testFile2, length = 50346
> fileName = testFile3, length = 50346
> fileName = testFile4, length = 50346
> fileName = testFile5, length = 50346
> fileName = testFile6, length = 50346
> fileName = testFile7, length = 50346
> fileName = testFile8, length = 50346
> fileName = testFile9, length = 50346
> fileName = testFile10, length = 50346
> 
> 8 seconds per 10 calls
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Eric Barro
> Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 5:54 PM
> To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
> 
> John,
> 
> This is a good candidate for a web service. A web service allows you to
> expose certain methods to client machines outside the network.
> 
> 1. Basically in terms of servers you will need a web server and a database
> server (one physical server is possible but two are better due to security
> issues).
> 2. The web server exposes the web service application and takes care of
> authentication to the database server. The web server is the only one that
> is publicly accessible from the outside.
> 
> This saves you from having to set up VPN client software on the client
> machines and also saves you from having to purchase hardware to run the VPN
> on the server side.
> 
> Eric
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
> Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 6:11 AM
> To: VBA
> Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
> 
> I am looking at doing an application in C# that needs to be able to run on
> user systems around the country, but manipulate data in a common location.
> IOW employees can be anywhere, running this program on their machine, but
> reading / writing data to a central server.
> 
> It is a fairly simple application in terms of the data, a hand full of
> fairly stable and short list tables that feed combos, and a couple of "log"
> kind of tables that document processes.  It would be nice to have access to
> a fairly complex directory structure containing data files that need to be
> imported by and exported from this program.  Again these files are small,
> less than a thousand lines of data, fixed width or CSV.  I am looking at the
> files now and the largest appear to be 80K or so.
> 
> I am thinking that a VPN tunnel to allow access to the data directories,
> which are then mapped to a drive on the local workstation.  Some kind of
> data store on the server, perhaps SQL Server Express. 
>   A local data store to do the import into, manipulation / cleanup of data,
> export back to files on the remote server directory structure.
> 
> I am wondering if you guys have experience in setting up this kind of a
> server and application to work on such a server.
> 
> --
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com
> _______________________________________________
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 


From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Sat Aug 29 15:02:07 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 00:02:07 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <002101ca28d5$3357af10$9a070d30$@spb.ru>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>	<A0EE8D558F30475DA302FCEDB2F81D4F@advancedinput.com>
	<002101ca28d5$3357af10$9a070d30$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <002201ca28e3$978d2f60$c6a78e20$@spb.ru>

Hi All,

I have made additions to the web service/test code - sample text to send to
web service can be now generated on-the-fly/obtained from web service call:

using System;

namespace WebServiceDirectTestConsole
{
    class Program
    {
        //
        // Add ASP.NET 2.0 web service reference:
        //
http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx
        //
        static void Main(string[] args)
        {
            try
            {
                const int CALLS_QTY = 10;

                DateTime startTime = DateTime.Now;

 
WebServiceDirectTestConsole.FileServiceSample.WebServiceFacade
                    service = new
WebServiceDirectTestConsole.FileServiceSample.WebServiceFacade();
                
                string fileName = "testFile";
                string what = "bytes";
                long amount = 30000; // max=71680;
                string fileText = service.GetLoremIpsumText(amount, what);
                string text = null;

                for (int i = 1; i <= CALLS_QTY; i++)
                {
                    service.StoreFile(fileName + i.ToString(), fileText);
                    text = service.GetFile(fileName + i.ToString());
                }

                text = service.GetWebServiceUsageStatistics();

                Console.WriteLine(text);

                DateTime endTime = DateTime.Now;

                double elapsedTime = ((TimeSpan)(endTime -
startTime)).TotalSeconds;

                Console.WriteLine("Elapsed Time = {0:#0.00} seconds for {1}
calls ({2}s/call, fileSize = {3})",
                    elapsedTime, CALLS_QTY, elapsedTime / CALLS_QTY,
fileText.Length);

            }
            catch (Exception ex)
            {
                Console.WriteLine(ex.Message);
            }
        }

    }
}

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil
Salakhetdinov
Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 10:19 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet

Yes, web service would be a good solution here.

I have made a test web service, which is located here:

http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx


You can test it using this code (c#):

using System;

namespace WebServiceDirectTestConsole
{
    class Program
    {
        //
        // Add ASP.NET 2.0 web service reference:
        //
http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx
        //
        static void Main(string[] args)
        {
            try
            {
                const int CALLS_QTY = 10;

                DateTime startTime = DateTime.Now;

 
WebServiceDirectTestConsole.FileServiceSample.WebServiceFacade
                    service = new
WebServiceDirectTestConsole.FileServiceSample.WebServiceFacade();
                
 
//http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/LoremIpsum.txt (50KB)
                string p = @"c:\temp\LoremIpsum.txt";
                string fileName = "testFile";
                string fileText = System.IO.File.ReadAllText(p);
                string text = null;

                for (int i = 1; i <= CALLS_QTY; i++)
                {
                    service.StoreFile(fileName + i.ToString(), fileText);
                    text = service.GetFile(fileName + i.ToString());
                }

                text = service.GetWebServiceUsageStatistics();

                Console.WriteLine(text);

                DateTime endTime = DateTime.Now;

                double elapsedTime = ((TimeSpan)(endTime -
startTime)).TotalSeconds;

                Console.WriteLine("Elapsed Time = {0:#0.00} seconds for {1}
calls ({2}s/call, fileSize = {3})",
                    elapsedTime, CALLS_QTY, elapsedTime / CALLS_QTY,
fileText.Length);

            }
            catch (Exception ex)
            {
                Console.WriteLine(ex.Message);
            }
        }
    }
}

One of the results of the above test runs is the following:

Total Web Calls: 20
Total Web Calls Duration: 20 ticks
Total Store File Web Calls: 10
Total Store File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
Total Get File Web Calls: 10
Total Get File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
Total Delete File Web Calls: 0
Total Delete File Web Calls Duration: 0 ticks
Currently Stored Files: 10
Currently Stored Files  Length: 503440

FILES
-----
fileName = testFile1, length = 50344
fileName = testFile2, length = 50344
fileName = testFile3, length = 50344
fileName = testFile4, length = 50344
fileName = testFile5, length = 50344
fileName = testFile6, length = 50344
fileName = testFile7, length = 50344
fileName = testFile8, length = 50344
fileName = testFile9, length = 50344
fileName = testFile10, length = 50344

Elapsed Time = 6,80 seconds for 10 calls (0,6799s/call, fileSize = 50467)


If you are interested we can make intensive test of this sample web service.

(I personally would be interested in such testing.)
I will make all its source code (simple) available on
northwind.codeplex.com.
This sample web service has already MS Access/VBA callable wrapper ActiveX
DLLs.

Thank you.

--
Shamil

P.S. Here is how the same web service can be called from MS Access/VBA using
ActiveX DLL wrapper library:

Option Compare Database
Option Explicit

Public Function TestWebServiceAdv()
Dim service As New MSAccessWebService
Const CALLS_QTY As Integer = 10
    Dim startTime As Date
    startTime = Now
    
    '//http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/LoremIpsum.txt (50KB)
    Dim p As String
    p = "c:\temp\LoremIpsum.txt"
    
    Dim fileName As String
    fileName = "testFile"
    Dim fileText As String
    fileText = ReadAllText(p)
    Dim text As String
    Dim i As Integer

    For i = 1 To CALLS_QTY Step 1
        service.StoreFile fileName + CStr(i), fileText
        text = service.GetFile(fileName + CStr(i))
    Next i
    
    Dim endTime As Date
    endTime = Now
    
    text = service.GetWebServiceUsageStatistics()
    Debug.Print text
    
    Dim elapsedTime As Double
    elapsedTime = DateDiff("s", startTime, endTime)
    Debug.Print elapsedTime & " seconds per " & _
           CStr(CALLS_QTY) & " calls"
End Function
                
Private Function ReadAllText(filePath As String) _
   As String
Dim text As String
Dim fn As Integer
Dim fileLen As Long
    fn = FreeFile
    Open filePath For Input As #fn
    fileLen = LOF(fn)
    text = Input(fileLen, fn)
    Close fn
    ReadAllText = text
End Function

One of the test calls results is the following:

Total Web Calls: 20
Total Web Calls Duration: 20 ticks
Total Store File Web Calls: 10
Total Store File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
Total Get File Web Calls: 10
Total Get File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
Total Delete File Web Calls: 0
Total Delete File Web Calls Duration: 0 ticks
Currently Stored Files: 10
Currently Stored Files  Length: 503460

FILES
-----
fileName = testFile1, length = 50346
fileName = testFile2, length = 50346
fileName = testFile3, length = 50346
fileName = testFile4, length = 50346
fileName = testFile5, length = 50346
fileName = testFile6, length = 50346
fileName = testFile7, length = 50346
fileName = testFile8, length = 50346
fileName = testFile9, length = 50346
fileName = testFile10, length = 50346

8 seconds per 10 calls


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Eric Barro
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 5:54 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet

John,

This is a good candidate for a web service. A web service allows you to
expose certain methods to client machines outside the network.

1. Basically in terms of servers you will need a web server and a database
server (one physical server is possible but two are better due to security
issues).
2. The web server exposes the web service application and takes care of
authentication to the database server. The web server is the only one that
is publicly accessible from the outside.

This saves you from having to set up VPN client software on the client
machines and also saves you from having to purchase hardware to run the VPN
on the server side.

Eric


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 6:11 AM
To: VBA
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet

I am looking at doing an application in C# that needs to be able to run on
user systems around the country, but manipulate data in a common location.
IOW employees can be anywhere, running this program on their machine, but
reading / writing data to a central server.

It is a fairly simple application in terms of the data, a hand full of
fairly stable and short list tables that feed combos, and a couple of "log"
kind of tables that document processes.  It would be nice to have access to
a fairly complex directory structure containing data files that need to be
imported by and exported from this program.  Again these files are small,
less than a thousand lines of data, fixed width or CSV.  I am looking at the
files now and the largest appear to be 80K or so.

I am thinking that a VPN tunnel to allow access to the data directories,
which are then mapped to a drive on the local workstation.  Some kind of
data store on the server, perhaps SQL Server Express. 
  A local data store to do the import into, manipulation / cleanup of data,
export back to files on the remote server directory structure.

I am wondering if you guys have experience in setting up this kind of a
server and application to work on such a server.

--
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com
_______________________________________________





From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Sat Aug 29 15:42:00 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 00:42:00 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <4A997E5B.20909@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>	<A0EE8D558F30475DA302FCEDB2F81D4F@advancedinput.com>	<002101ca28d5$3357af10$9a070d30$@spb.ru>
	<4A997E5B.20909@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <002301ca28e9$2aaf8f40$800eadc0$@spb.ru>

Hi John,

I have got only a reference to MSDN:

"Web Services in Managed Code"
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/xy59yt45.aspx

This MSDN entry and related ones have rather detailed and step by step
introduction into Web Services subject area.

Hamachi vs. Web Services: it depends - for me using Web Services look
quicker (no need to setup IIS and MS SQL for the sample I presented as it
runs on my ASP.NET hosting site - this sample deployed by XCOPY), more
flexible, scalable etc. To set wrapper activeX DLL (assuming all customers'
PC have target .NET Framework installed) is no more than run a .bat file. 

Of course learning how to use/develop Web Services takes some time. But this
learning will pay back very well - guaranteed.

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 11:16 PM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet

Thanks Shamil.

What is missing here is an explanation.

1) What IS a web service?
2) What are the pieces, and what do they do?  I assume that there is a
service and a client?
3) What is this web service doing?
4) Doesn't it seem that ...

getting IIS and SQL Server set up, writing web services, writing a DLL for
the client Access 
database, getting the existing system using the DLL and installing the DLL
on each machine...

doesn't all of that seem much more complicated than installing Hamachi and
mapping a shared 
directory to a drive letter?

Now, having said that, I have a future project which (if you would slow down
and explain just what 
the heck this stuff was) MIGHT be a perfect fit for this technology.  OTOH,
the future project is a 
system that I hope to sell to small drug companies.  Whatever this stuff is
has to be point and 
click installable as software at the client's site.

As I mentioned to Eric, I am listening, but so far I haven't understood a
word of what I am hearing.

Perhaps a reference to some book, or article that explains this stuff step
by step...?

Thanks,

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote:
> Yes, web service would be a good solution here.
> 
> I have made a test web service, which is located here:
> 
> http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx
> 
> 
> You can test it using this code (c#):
> 
> using System;
> 
> namespace WebServiceDirectTestConsole
> {
>     class Program
>     {
>         //
>         // Add ASP.NET 2.0 web service reference:
>         //
> http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx
>         //
>         static void Main(string[] args)
>         {
>             try
>             {
>                 const int CALLS_QTY = 10;
> 
>                 DateTime startTime = DateTime.Now;
> 
>  
> WebServiceDirectTestConsole.FileServiceSample.WebServiceFacade
>                     service = new
> WebServiceDirectTestConsole.FileServiceSample.WebServiceFacade();
>                 
>  
> //http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/LoremIpsum.txt (50KB)
>                 string p = @"c:\temp\LoremIpsum.txt";
>                 string fileName = "testFile";
>                 string fileText = System.IO.File.ReadAllText(p);
>                 string text = null;
> 
>                 for (int i = 1; i <= CALLS_QTY; i++)
>                 {
>                     service.StoreFile(fileName + i.ToString(), fileText);
>                     text = service.GetFile(fileName + i.ToString());
>                 }
> 
>                 text = service.GetWebServiceUsageStatistics();
> 
>                 Console.WriteLine(text);
> 
>                 DateTime endTime = DateTime.Now;
> 
>                 double elapsedTime = ((TimeSpan)(endTime -
> startTime)).TotalSeconds;
> 
>                 Console.WriteLine("Elapsed Time = {0:#0.00} seconds for
{1}
> calls ({2}s/call, fileSize = {3})",
>                     elapsedTime, CALLS_QTY, elapsedTime / CALLS_QTY,
> fileText.Length);
> 
>             }
>             catch (Exception ex)
>             {
>                 Console.WriteLine(ex.Message);
>             }
>         }
>     }
> }
> 
> One of the results of the above test runs is the following:
> 
> Total Web Calls: 20
> Total Web Calls Duration: 20 ticks
> Total Store File Web Calls: 10
> Total Store File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
> Total Get File Web Calls: 10
> Total Get File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
> Total Delete File Web Calls: 0
> Total Delete File Web Calls Duration: 0 ticks
> Currently Stored Files: 10
> Currently Stored Files  Length: 503440
> 
> FILES
> -----
> fileName = testFile1, length = 50344
> fileName = testFile2, length = 50344
> fileName = testFile3, length = 50344
> fileName = testFile4, length = 50344
> fileName = testFile5, length = 50344
> fileName = testFile6, length = 50344
> fileName = testFile7, length = 50344
> fileName = testFile8, length = 50344
> fileName = testFile9, length = 50344
> fileName = testFile10, length = 50344
> 
> Elapsed Time = 6,80 seconds for 10 calls (0,6799s/call, fileSize = 50467)
> 
> 
> If you are interested we can make intensive test of this sample web
service.
> 
> (I personally would be interested in such testing.)
> I will make all its source code (simple) available on
> northwind.codeplex.com.
> This sample web service has already MS Access/VBA callable wrapper ActiveX
> DLLs.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> --
> Shamil
> 
> P.S. Here is how the same web service can be called from MS Access/VBA
using
> ActiveX DLL wrapper library:
> 
> Option Compare Database
> Option Explicit
> 
> Public Function TestWebServiceAdv()
> Dim service As New MSAccessWebService
> Const CALLS_QTY As Integer = 10
>     Dim startTime As Date
>     startTime = Now
>     
>     '//http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/LoremIpsum.txt (50KB)
>     Dim p As String
>     p = "c:\temp\LoremIpsum.txt"
>     
>     Dim fileName As String
>     fileName = "testFile"
>     Dim fileText As String
>     fileText = ReadAllText(p)
>     Dim text As String
>     Dim i As Integer
> 
>     For i = 1 To CALLS_QTY Step 1
>         service.StoreFile fileName + CStr(i), fileText
>         text = service.GetFile(fileName + CStr(i))
>     Next i
>     
>     Dim endTime As Date
>     endTime = Now
>     
>     text = service.GetWebServiceUsageStatistics()
>     Debug.Print text
>     
>     Dim elapsedTime As Double
>     elapsedTime = DateDiff("s", startTime, endTime)
>     Debug.Print elapsedTime & " seconds per " & _
>            CStr(CALLS_QTY) & " calls"
> End Function
>                 
> Private Function ReadAllText(filePath As String) _
>    As String
> Dim text As String
> Dim fn As Integer
> Dim fileLen As Long
>     fn = FreeFile
>     Open filePath For Input As #fn
>     fileLen = LOF(fn)
>     text = Input(fileLen, fn)
>     Close fn
>     ReadAllText = text
> End Function
> 
> One of the test calls results is the following:
> 
> Total Web Calls: 20
> Total Web Calls Duration: 20 ticks
> Total Store File Web Calls: 10
> Total Store File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
> Total Get File Web Calls: 10
> Total Get File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
> Total Delete File Web Calls: 0
> Total Delete File Web Calls Duration: 0 ticks
> Currently Stored Files: 10
> Currently Stored Files  Length: 503460
> 
> FILES
> -----
> fileName = testFile1, length = 50346
> fileName = testFile2, length = 50346
> fileName = testFile3, length = 50346
> fileName = testFile4, length = 50346
> fileName = testFile5, length = 50346
> fileName = testFile6, length = 50346
> fileName = testFile7, length = 50346
> fileName = testFile8, length = 50346
> fileName = testFile9, length = 50346
> fileName = testFile10, length = 50346
> 
> 8 seconds per 10 calls
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Eric Barro
> Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 5:54 PM
> To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
> 
> John,
> 
> This is a good candidate for a web service. A web service allows you to
> expose certain methods to client machines outside the network.
> 
> 1. Basically in terms of servers you will need a web server and a database
> server (one physical server is possible but two are better due to security
> issues).
> 2. The web server exposes the web service application and takes care of
> authentication to the database server. The web server is the only one that
> is publicly accessible from the outside.
> 
> This saves you from having to set up VPN client software on the client
> machines and also saves you from having to purchase hardware to run the
VPN
> on the server side.
> 
> Eric
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
> Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 6:11 AM
> To: VBA
> Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
> 
> I am looking at doing an application in C# that needs to be able to run on
> user systems around the country, but manipulate data in a common location.
> IOW employees can be anywhere, running this program on their machine, but
> reading / writing data to a central server.
> 
> It is a fairly simple application in terms of the data, a hand full of
> fairly stable and short list tables that feed combos, and a couple of
"log"
> kind of tables that document processes.  It would be nice to have access
to
> a fairly complex directory structure containing data files that need to be
> imported by and exported from this program.  Again these files are small,
> less than a thousand lines of data, fixed width or CSV.  I am looking at
the
> files now and the largest appear to be 80K or so.
> 
> I am thinking that a VPN tunnel to allow access to the data directories,
> which are then mapped to a drive on the local workstation.  Some kind of
> data store on the server, perhaps SQL Server Express. 
>   A local data store to do the import into, manipulation / cleanup of
data,
> export back to files on the remote server directory structure.
> 
> I am wondering if you guys have experience in setting up this kind of a
> server and application to work on such a server.
> 
> --
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com
> _______________________________________________
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 
_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
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From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Sat Aug 29 15:51:10 2009
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 06:51:10 +1000
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <4A997E5B.20909@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>,
	<002101ca28d5$3357af10$9a070d30$@spb.ru>,
	<4A997E5B.20909@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <4A9994BE.30130.138FC586@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

Strictly speaking,

http://www.webopedia.com/DidYouKnow/Computer_Science/2005/web_services.asp

"The term Web service describes a standardized way of integrating Web-based applications 
using the XML, SOAP, WSDL and UDDI open standards over an Internet protocol 
backbone."

http://www.w3schools.com/webservices/ws_intro.asp
What are Web Services?

    * Web services are application components
    * Web services communicate using open protocols
    * Web services are self-contained and self-describing
    * Web services can be discovered using UDDI
    * Web services can be used by other applications
    * XML is the basis for Web services

This latter link is the start of a long tutorial on web services.

Based on your original problem, this is not really what you want at all.  You just want some 
way to transfer data over the internet which is not exposed to all and sundry.

-- 
Stuart


On 29 Aug 2009 at 15:15, jwcolby wrote:

> Thanks Shamil.
> 
> What is missing here is an explanation.
> 
> 1) What IS a web service?
> 2) What are the pieces, and what do they do?  I assume that there is a service and a client?
> 3) What is this web service doing?
> 4) Doesn't it seem that ...
> 



From ebarro at verizon.net  Fri Aug 28 14:52:40 2009
From: ebarro at verizon.net (Eric Barro)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 12:52:40 -0700
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <4A97FB07.9090701@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>
	<A0EE8D558F30475DA302FCEDB2F81D4F@advancedinput.com>
	<4A97FB07.9090701@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <FEEB2721B87C4D879A17B7B130414076@advancedinput.com>

John,

A web service doesn't necessarily need a web browser interface. Any
application can use web services for as long as that application can connect
to the internet.

You are correct that you would have to learn a whole new paradigm but only
in so far as how you reference the web service in your application and of
course creating the web service itself. VS.NET already has template code to
get you started in the right direction. I can also help you get started. As
far as multi-user issues is concerned it's a non-issue because it's handled
behind the scenes by SQL server.

As far as SQL server is concerned, it's just another connection
requesting/updating some data.

I've created web services that some of the managers at work use with Excel
to load up a worksheet with data from a vendor-supplied MRP system. They
just click a button and VBA calls the event that handles the data pull via
the web service. I've also created web services used in a browser-based
application where the user can upload an image file (JPG) to a remote SQL
server where it is saved as a BLOB (binary object) and then displays the
uploaded image on the browser after it is successfully uploaded (again
invoking one of the exposed methods of the web service that specifically
handles that functionality).

The thing with VPN connectivity, FTP, firewalls and the like is that you
have a level of complexity that you have to deal with on the client side to
get it to work correctly and if something goes wrong you have several places
that you have to look into to determine what could have caused the problem.

With the web services approach you can narrow down the troubleshooting.

Here's a sample reference for a web service on my site --
http://www.ebarro.com/webservices/EBarroAPI.asmx

Eric

-----Original Message-----
From: jwcolby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] 
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 8:43 AM
To: ebarro at verizon.net; Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related
programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet

Eric,

Thanks for the response.  I assume you are discussing a "browser based
application"?

If so there are a couple of issues that I see.
1) I would have to learn a whole new paradigm from scratch.
2) Multi-user issues.

The client is a SOHO with "employees" consisting mostly of family members,
who would work from their homes.  I understand the "setup" issues but at
least for now that would be a very small number of machines.  I just talked
to the client and, for example, he has two production scanners, one in CT
and the other in Nashville.  It would be nice for each scanner to drop the
scanned files (CSV files) into a common directory structure in the office in
CT.  The program would then pull the CSVs across the internet into the local
instance wherever that might be, import it into a local data store, process
the data, then export the tables back out into a fixed width file back in
the same server (different path) that the CSV came from.

You get the picture.  The thing that might make this work is that the files
are tiny, 80 kb is the biggest I have seen so far.  I am actually looking at
installing Hamachi on each of his "satellite offices" PCs, and building a
virtual network around that Hamachi client.

I don't contend that this solution works for a huge system but not every
system is huge!  And if it gets huge then the money will be there to support
hardware VPNs etc.  Or even a port to a web service at that point.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Eric Barro wrote:
> John,
> 
> This is a good candidate for a web service. A web service allows you 
> to expose certain methods to client machines outside the network.
> 
> 1. Basically in terms of servers you will need a web server and a 
> database server (one physical server is possible but two are better 
> due to security issues).
> 2. The web server exposes the web service application and takes care 
> of authentication to the database server. The web server is the only 
> one that is publicly accessible from the outside.
> 
> This saves you from having to set up VPN client software on the client 
> machines and also saves you from having to purchase hardware to run 
> the VPN on the server side.
> 
> Eric



From Gustav at cactus.dk  Fri Aug 28 14:43:16 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 21:43:16 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
Message-ID: <sa984f91.013@cactus.dk>

Hi John

Yes, much better. 
But I wonder why CPU power should be the bottleneck - it certainly should be the upload speed to the Internet. Could it be that this Hamagochi thing is a CPU hog? For an FTP transfer, even a Pentium II could feed files at that speed at little CPU usage ...

/gustav

>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-08-2009 21:29 >>>
Gustav,

I created a shared directory on my "new" Windows 2008 server and copied the data file directory 
structure to there.  I then remoted in to the client's machine, mapped that new directory on my 
server back to my client's machine drive Y.  Copied my latest version of the FE to his machine and 
ran.

I am therefore now running the application on his server where I do dev work for him when not 
developing on my machine in my office.  I have mapped a directory on my server over Hamachi to Y: on 
that server in his office.  Running the same code:

Time to open the file in Notepad 2156 Milliseconds
Time to open the file in Notepad 500 Milliseconds
Time to open the file in Notepad 594 Milliseconds

Import From File took 5000 Milliseconds
Cleanup of raw data took 3750 Milliseconds
Import From File took 5016 Milliseconds
Cleanup of raw data took 3390 Milliseconds
Import From File took 4531 Milliseconds
Cleanup of raw data took 9031 Milliseconds
Import From File took 4547 Milliseconds
Cleanup of raw data took 3094 Milliseconds

As you can see, my times for the import process is now MUCH faster.  The file server is now hosted 
on my quad core (2 ghz real clock AMD) with 8 gigs of ram running Windows 2008.  BTW My upload speed 
(out of my office to the internet) is not particularly blazing at .5 mbit / second.

I have to conclude that the bottleneck is the server processing speed.  When I was running the app 
on my laptop accessing data at his office, the server was a single core Pentium III 500 mhz machine 
(just checked) running Windows XP SP3 and 256 MB of ram.

Obviously having a new server at his end will help!

I think these numbers are suddenly very usable.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com 


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi John
> 
> That seems a bit slow to me but when it is set up and running and the price is right it should be fine - I mean, 73 seconds, should it matter?
> 
> /gustav
> 
> 
>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-08-2009 19:43 >>>
> Gustav,
> 
> I have Hamachi already in place on the client's server as well as my system.  I routinely remote 
> desktop in to his machine already.  I had set up the path to the data files (in / out) as a SysVar 
> and so I mapped his remote database directory (on his server) to y: on my dev machine here at my 
> office and changed my sysvar to point to the new location.
> 
> I then ran the existing Access application.  I set up my timer class to time the import, which uses 
> a simple docmd.transfertext to pull the data from the CSV file into a first stage processing table.
> 
> Looking at five different runs, the time to import 835 records from a CSV file into a local table, 
> across the internet using Hamachi is
> 
> Import From File took 72915 Milliseconds
> Cleanup of raw data took 2354 Milliseconds
> Import From File took 59250 Milliseconds
> Cleanup of raw data took 4319 Milliseconds
> Import From File took 23369 Milliseconds
> Cleanup of raw data took 3307 Milliseconds
> Import From File took 23354 Milliseconds
> Cleanup of raw data took 3447 Milliseconds
> Import From File took 23353 Milliseconds
> Cleanup of raw data took 3181 Milliseconds
> 
> I had done a couple of runs before I set up the timer and the times there were approximately 24 
> seconds as well.  So the "normal" time is around 24 seconds, but it can be quite lengthy as you can 
> see, 73 seconds in the worst case so far.
> 
> What was going on during those longer time imports is unknown.  The server is being used to store 
> these scan files as well as process them.  OTOH the server is also a 750 mhz pentium machine, pretty 
> slow as servers go.  We have a new server ready to go online.
> 
> And of course this assumes fast internet at both ends.
> 
> I also built a button to allow them to open the source CSV files in notepad.  That only took
> 
> Time to open the file in Notepad 4930 Milliseconds
> Time to open the file in Notepad 4290 Milliseconds
> Time to open the file in Notepad 2855 Milliseconds
> Time to open the file in Notepad 4274 Milliseconds
> 
> So obviously the import process itself is taking a fair amount of time.
> 
> Anyway... I would guess that for a small company like this, a Hamachi VPN to a central server is 
> going to work quite well.  Low cost, reasonably fast, and easy to set up.
> 
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com 



From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Sat Aug 29 20:08:53 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 21:08:53 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <4A9994BE.30130.138FC586@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>,
	<002101ca28d5$3357af10$9a070d30$@spb.ru>,
	<4A997E5B.20909@colbyconsulting.com>
	<4A9994BE.30130.138FC586@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
Message-ID: <4A99D125.1080300@colbyconsulting.com>

 >You just want some way to transfer data over the internet which is not exposed to all and sundry.

Uhhh yep.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Stuart McLachlan wrote:
> Strictly speaking,
> 
> http://www.webopedia.com/DidYouKnow/Computer_Science/2005/web_services.asp
> 
> "The term Web service describes a standardized way of integrating Web-based applications 
> using the XML, SOAP, WSDL and UDDI open standards over an Internet protocol 
> backbone."
> 
> http://www.w3schools.com/webservices/ws_intro.asp
> What are Web Services?
> 
>     * Web services are application components
>     * Web services communicate using open protocols
>     * Web services are self-contained and self-describing
>     * Web services can be discovered using UDDI
>     * Web services can be used by other applications
>     * XML is the basis for Web services
> 
> This latter link is the start of a long tutorial on web services.
> 
> Based on your original problem, this is not really what you want at all.  You just want some 
> way to transfer data over the internet which is not exposed to all and sundry.
> 


From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Sat Aug 29 20:21:21 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 21:21:21 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <002301ca28e9$2aaf8f40$800eadc0$@spb.ru>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>	<A0EE8D558F30475DA302FCEDB2F81D4F@advancedinput.com>	<002101ca28d5$3357af10$9a070d30$@spb.ru>	<4A997E5B.20909@colbyconsulting.com>
	<002301ca28e9$2aaf8f40$800eadc0$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <4A99D411.7000207@colbyconsulting.com>

http://www.hanselman.com/blog/BreakingAllTheRulesWithWCF.aspx

Read all the comments at the bottom.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote:
> Hi John,
> 
> I have got only a reference to MSDN:
> 
> "Web Services in Managed Code"
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/xy59yt45.aspx
> 
> This MSDN entry and related ones have rather detailed and step by step
> introduction into Web Services subject area.
> 
> Hamachi vs. Web Services: it depends - for me using Web Services look
> quicker (no need to setup IIS and MS SQL for the sample I presented as it
> runs on my ASP.NET hosting site - this sample deployed by XCOPY), more
> flexible, scalable etc. To set wrapper activeX DLL (assuming all customers'
> PC have target .NET Framework installed) is no more than run a .bat file. 
> 
> Of course learning how to use/develop Web Services takes some time. But this
> learning will pay back very well - guaranteed.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> --
> Shamil
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
> Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 11:16 PM
> To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
> 
> Thanks Shamil.
> 
> What is missing here is an explanation.
> 
> 1) What IS a web service?
> 2) What are the pieces, and what do they do?  I assume that there is a
> service and a client?
> 3) What is this web service doing?
> 4) Doesn't it seem that ...
> 
> getting IIS and SQL Server set up, writing web services, writing a DLL for
> the client Access 
> database, getting the existing system using the DLL and installing the DLL
> on each machine...
> 
> doesn't all of that seem much more complicated than installing Hamachi and
> mapping a shared 
> directory to a drive letter?
> 
> Now, having said that, I have a future project which (if you would slow down
> and explain just what 
> the heck this stuff was) MIGHT be a perfect fit for this technology.  OTOH,
> the future project is a 
> system that I hope to sell to small drug companies.  Whatever this stuff is
> has to be point and 
> click installable as software at the client's site.
> 
> As I mentioned to Eric, I am listening, but so far I haven't understood a
> word of what I am hearing.
> 
> Perhaps a reference to some book, or article that explains this stuff step
> by step...?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com
> 
> 
> Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote:
>> Yes, web service would be a good solution here.
>>
>> I have made a test web service, which is located here:
>>
>> http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx
>>
>>
>> You can test it using this code (c#):
>>
>> using System;
>>
>> namespace WebServiceDirectTestConsole
>> {
>>     class Program
>>     {
>>         //
>>         // Add ASP.NET 2.0 web service reference:
>>         //
>> http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx
>>         //
>>         static void Main(string[] args)
>>         {
>>             try
>>             {
>>                 const int CALLS_QTY = 10;
>>
>>                 DateTime startTime = DateTime.Now;
>>
>>  
>> WebServiceDirectTestConsole.FileServiceSample.WebServiceFacade
>>                     service = new
>> WebServiceDirectTestConsole.FileServiceSample.WebServiceFacade();
>>                 
>>  
>> //http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/LoremIpsum.txt (50KB)
>>                 string p = @"c:\temp\LoremIpsum.txt";
>>                 string fileName = "testFile";
>>                 string fileText = System.IO.File.ReadAllText(p);
>>                 string text = null;
>>
>>                 for (int i = 1; i <= CALLS_QTY; i++)
>>                 {
>>                     service.StoreFile(fileName + i.ToString(), fileText);
>>                     text = service.GetFile(fileName + i.ToString());
>>                 }
>>
>>                 text = service.GetWebServiceUsageStatistics();
>>
>>                 Console.WriteLine(text);
>>
>>                 DateTime endTime = DateTime.Now;
>>
>>                 double elapsedTime = ((TimeSpan)(endTime -
>> startTime)).TotalSeconds;
>>
>>                 Console.WriteLine("Elapsed Time = {0:#0.00} seconds for
> {1}
>> calls ({2}s/call, fileSize = {3})",
>>                     elapsedTime, CALLS_QTY, elapsedTime / CALLS_QTY,
>> fileText.Length);
>>
>>             }
>>             catch (Exception ex)
>>             {
>>                 Console.WriteLine(ex.Message);
>>             }
>>         }
>>     }
>> }
>>
>> One of the results of the above test runs is the following:
>>
>> Total Web Calls: 20
>> Total Web Calls Duration: 20 ticks
>> Total Store File Web Calls: 10
>> Total Store File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
>> Total Get File Web Calls: 10
>> Total Get File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
>> Total Delete File Web Calls: 0
>> Total Delete File Web Calls Duration: 0 ticks
>> Currently Stored Files: 10
>> Currently Stored Files  Length: 503440
>>
>> FILES
>> -----
>> fileName = testFile1, length = 50344
>> fileName = testFile2, length = 50344
>> fileName = testFile3, length = 50344
>> fileName = testFile4, length = 50344
>> fileName = testFile5, length = 50344
>> fileName = testFile6, length = 50344
>> fileName = testFile7, length = 50344
>> fileName = testFile8, length = 50344
>> fileName = testFile9, length = 50344
>> fileName = testFile10, length = 50344
>>
>> Elapsed Time = 6,80 seconds for 10 calls (0,6799s/call, fileSize = 50467)
>>
>>
>> If you are interested we can make intensive test of this sample web
> service.
>> (I personally would be interested in such testing.)
>> I will make all its source code (simple) available on
>> northwind.codeplex.com.
>> This sample web service has already MS Access/VBA callable wrapper ActiveX
>> DLLs.
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> --
>> Shamil
>>
>> P.S. Here is how the same web service can be called from MS Access/VBA
> using
>> ActiveX DLL wrapper library:
>>
>> Option Compare Database
>> Option Explicit
>>
>> Public Function TestWebServiceAdv()
>> Dim service As New MSAccessWebService
>> Const CALLS_QTY As Integer = 10
>>     Dim startTime As Date
>>     startTime = Now
>>     
>>     '//http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/LoremIpsum.txt (50KB)
>>     Dim p As String
>>     p = "c:\temp\LoremIpsum.txt"
>>     
>>     Dim fileName As String
>>     fileName = "testFile"
>>     Dim fileText As String
>>     fileText = ReadAllText(p)
>>     Dim text As String
>>     Dim i As Integer
>>
>>     For i = 1 To CALLS_QTY Step 1
>>         service.StoreFile fileName + CStr(i), fileText
>>         text = service.GetFile(fileName + CStr(i))
>>     Next i
>>     
>>     Dim endTime As Date
>>     endTime = Now
>>     
>>     text = service.GetWebServiceUsageStatistics()
>>     Debug.Print text
>>     
>>     Dim elapsedTime As Double
>>     elapsedTime = DateDiff("s", startTime, endTime)
>>     Debug.Print elapsedTime & " seconds per " & _
>>            CStr(CALLS_QTY) & " calls"
>> End Function
>>                 
>> Private Function ReadAllText(filePath As String) _
>>    As String
>> Dim text As String
>> Dim fn As Integer
>> Dim fileLen As Long
>>     fn = FreeFile
>>     Open filePath For Input As #fn
>>     fileLen = LOF(fn)
>>     text = Input(fileLen, fn)
>>     Close fn
>>     ReadAllText = text
>> End Function
>>
>> One of the test calls results is the following:
>>
>> Total Web Calls: 20
>> Total Web Calls Duration: 20 ticks
>> Total Store File Web Calls: 10
>> Total Store File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
>> Total Get File Web Calls: 10
>> Total Get File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
>> Total Delete File Web Calls: 0
>> Total Delete File Web Calls Duration: 0 ticks
>> Currently Stored Files: 10
>> Currently Stored Files  Length: 503460
>>
>> FILES
>> -----
>> fileName = testFile1, length = 50346
>> fileName = testFile2, length = 50346
>> fileName = testFile3, length = 50346
>> fileName = testFile4, length = 50346
>> fileName = testFile5, length = 50346
>> fileName = testFile6, length = 50346
>> fileName = testFile7, length = 50346
>> fileName = testFile8, length = 50346
>> fileName = testFile9, length = 50346
>> fileName = testFile10, length = 50346
>>
>> 8 seconds per 10 calls
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Eric Barro
>> Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 5:54 PM
>> To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
>> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
>>
>> John,
>>
>> This is a good candidate for a web service. A web service allows you to
>> expose certain methods to client machines outside the network.
>>
>> 1. Basically in terms of servers you will need a web server and a database
>> server (one physical server is possible but two are better due to security
>> issues).
>> 2. The web server exposes the web service application and takes care of
>> authentication to the database server. The web server is the only one that
>> is publicly accessible from the outside.
>>
>> This saves you from having to set up VPN client software on the client
>> machines and also saves you from having to purchase hardware to run the
> VPN
>> on the server side.
>>
>> Eric
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
>> Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 6:11 AM
>> To: VBA
>> Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
>>
>> I am looking at doing an application in C# that needs to be able to run on
>> user systems around the country, but manipulate data in a common location.
>> IOW employees can be anywhere, running this program on their machine, but
>> reading / writing data to a central server.
>>
>> It is a fairly simple application in terms of the data, a hand full of
>> fairly stable and short list tables that feed combos, and a couple of
> "log"
>> kind of tables that document processes.  It would be nice to have access
> to
>> a fairly complex directory structure containing data files that need to be
>> imported by and exported from this program.  Again these files are small,
>> less than a thousand lines of data, fixed width or CSV.  I am looking at
> the
>> files now and the largest appear to be 80K or so.
>>
>> I am thinking that a VPN tunnel to allow access to the data directories,
>> which are then mapped to a drive on the local workstation.  Some kind of
>> data store on the server, perhaps SQL Server Express. 
>>   A local data store to do the import into, manipulation / cleanup of
> data,
>> export back to files on the remote server directory structure.
>>
>> I am wondering if you guys have experience in setting up this kind of a
>> server and application to work on such a server.
>>
>> --
>> John W. Colby
>> www.ColbyConsulting.com
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> dba-VB mailing list
>> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
>> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
> database 4379 (20090829) __________
> 
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
> 
> http://www.esetnod32.ru
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 


From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Sun Aug 30 02:38:28 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 11:38:28 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <4A99D411.7000207@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>	<A0EE8D558F30475DA302FCEDB2F81D4F@advancedinput.com>	<002101ca28d5$3357af10$9a070d30$@spb.ru>	<4A997E5B.20909@colbyconsulting.com>	<002301ca28e9$2aaf8f40$800eadc0$@spb.ru>
	<4A99D411.7000207@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <002d01ca2944$df79b210$9e6d1630$@spb.ru>

Hi John,

I did read comments from the ref you quoted here - they are a usual "junk" -
I mean real developers who use MS software do not waste time on writing
comments how bad this MS software is :) I can assure you (as many other
developers here) it's not that bad as you can find reading all that "junk
comments".

BTW, I liked this comment, which I classify as very helpful, and coming from
experienced developer (as I also am BTW :)O:

<<<<<<<<<<
Ben Kloosterman, 21 June 2009, 20:38:34 (Pacific Standard Time, UTC-08:00)

The problem is not with WCF (or Axis) but with people who choose overly
complicated scenarios. WCF is far superior to Axis though because Services
framework allow things people use them. 

eg 
- Security 95% of the time no transport security/encryption is sufficient.
- Use custom headers dont fudge it like the article , this method is very
common .
- Use complicated types , inheritcance , interfaces , collections etc ..
KISS and use the DTO pattern. ( DOnt pollute your business domain with the
need to tranport it)

The big advantage REST has is you cant do the fancy things but everything
you can do with REST you can do with WCF and keep it or even more simple. 

Ben
>>>>>>>>>>>

And BTW, my current proposal is to use SOAP (ASP.NET 2.0) Web Services for
starters - they are easier to start with = you can create such Web Services
within VS2008. Later on you can convert them to WCF/REST web services -
you'll just need to change interface/fa?ade in most of the cases.

And a sample Web Service I created here is exactly a SOAP web service:

http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx

You can find comments on its interface in P.S. of this message. And you can
consume this web service using sample code I provided in my previous
postings within this thread. (All the C# code for this Web Service including
comments is about 270+ code lines long - and that's all you have to write -
no need to code manually .wsdl etc. )

Some of my experience with Web Services:

1) One of my overseas customers (WA) did use web service running on my
hosting site (Moscow, Russia, and it runs within common application pool)
for several months. And this web service was queried dozen times within a
second from his programs running on 5+ computers from his LAN there. Result:
no any major trouble at all.

2) Another customer does use web service developed here to synchronize
two-way "field-force automation" local MS SQL Express databases with central
MS SQL database running behind large ASP.NET application. No problem.

Etc.

Recap: Stop reading "junk comments", start acting.

Thank you.

--
Shamil

P.S. Sample web service interface (Note: this sample web service was made in
one go, without any "heavy load" on brain cells, within a couple of hours
including several times of (XCOPY) deployment on ASP.NET hosting site,
testing etc. - I mean with some more work it can be done 100% "bullet-proof"
but even now it should be strong enough - you can test it):

/// <summary>
/// Test method - Hello, World!
/// </summary>
/// <returns>String 'Hello MS Access World!'</returns>
[WebMethod]
public string HelloWorld()

/// <summary>
/// Stores given file in Web service memory
/// </summary>
/// <param name="fileName">File name</param>
/// <param name="fileText">File text</param>
/// <returns>Stored file length if file stored successfully,
/// otherwise throws ApplicationException </returns>
/// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter is null or
empty</exception>
/// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileText parameter is null or
empty</exception>
/// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter's value length
exceeds 255 chars</exception>
/// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileText parameter's value length
exceeds 100KB chars</exception>
/// <remarks>
/// If the total length of stored files exceed 3MB then web service deletes
/// stored files until there will be enough space to store a new file.
/// </remarks> 
[WebMethod]
public int StoreFile(string fileName, string fileText)

/// <summary>
/// Gets stored on web service side file
/// </summary>
/// <param name="fileName">File name</param>
/// <returns>Stored file text if file retrieved successfully,
/// otherwise throws ApplicationException </returns>
/// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter is null or
empty</exception>
/// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter's value length
exceeds 255 chars</exception>
/// <exception cref="ApplicationException">{fileName} - file not
found</exception>
[WebMethod]
public string GetFile(string fileName)

/// <summary>
/// Delets stored on web service side file
/// </summary>
/// <param name="fileName">File name</param>
/// <returns>True if file deleted successfully,
/// otherwise throws ApplicationException </returns>
/// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter is null or
empty</exception>
/// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter's value length
exceeds 255 chars</exception>
/// <exception cref="ApplicationException">{fileName} - file not
found</exception>
[WebMethod]
public bool DeleteFile(string fileName)

/// <summary>
/// Gets Web Service usage statistics
/// </summary>
/// <returns></returns>
[WebMethod] 
public string GetWebServiceUsageStatistics()

/// <summary>
/// Gets 'Lorem Ipsum...' text
/// </summary>
/// <param name="amount">Speficies amount of <paramref name="what"
parameter/></param>
/// <param name="what">Defines generation units: words, paras, bytes,
lists</param>
/// <returns></returns>
[WebMethod] 
public string GetLoremIpsumText(long amount, string what)


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 5:21 AM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet

http://www.hanselman.com/blog/BreakingAllTheRulesWithWCF.aspx

Read all the comments at the bottom.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com

<<< snip>>>
 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4380 (20090829) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 




From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Sun Aug 30 10:20:46 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 11:20:46 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <002d01ca2944$df79b210$9e6d1630$@spb.ru>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>	<A0EE8D558F30475DA302FCEDB2F81D4F@advancedinput.com>	<002101ca28d5$3357af10$9a070d30$@spb.ru>	<4A997E5B.20909@colbyconsulting.com>	<002301ca28e9$2aaf8f40$800eadc0$@spb.ru>	<4A99D411.7000207@colbyconsulting.com>
	<002d01ca2944$df79b210$9e6d1630$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <4A9A98CE.2090303@colbyconsulting.com>

Shamil,

I understand that only people who have problems write comments about the problems they have.  I also 
understand that if someone uses VS.Net to write both ends of the channel then the probability of 
problems drops dramatically.

I would not characterize such comments a "junk" however, I believe that such problems are very real, 
particularly when you are dealing with disparate technologies on either end.  The article itself was 
found in the C# start page, and he was having problems using .Net to try to talk to a service 
created in some other technology (from the little I actually understood).

What I found daunting was the gobbledegook of terms and technologies being discussed.  It certainly 
appeared to me that the majority of these "junk" comments were .Net developers trying to use .Net to 
subscribe (if that is the correct phrase) to services that were created in some other technology. 
Who had to do so for business reasons, in their work.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote:
> Hi John,
> 
> I did read comments from the ref you quoted here - they are a usual "junk" -
> I mean real developers who use MS software do not waste time on writing
> comments how bad this MS software is :) I can assure you (as many other
> developers here) it's not that bad as you can find reading all that "junk
> comments".
> 
> BTW, I liked this comment, which I classify as very helpful, and coming from
> experienced developer (as I also am BTW :)O:
> 
> <<<<<<<<<<
> Ben Kloosterman, 21 June 2009, 20:38:34 (Pacific Standard Time, UTC-08:00)
> 
> The problem is not with WCF (or Axis) but with people who choose overly
> complicated scenarios. WCF is far superior to Axis though because Services
> framework allow things people use them. 
> 
> eg 
> - Security 95% of the time no transport security/encryption is sufficient.
> - Use custom headers dont fudge it like the article , this method is very
> common .
> - Use complicated types , inheritcance , interfaces , collections etc ..
> KISS and use the DTO pattern. ( DOnt pollute your business domain with the
> need to tranport it)
> 
> The big advantage REST has is you cant do the fancy things but everything
> you can do with REST you can do with WCF and keep it or even more simple. 
> 
> Ben
> 
> And BTW, my current proposal is to use SOAP (ASP.NET 2.0) Web Services for
> starters - they are easier to start with = you can create such Web Services
> within VS2008. Later on you can convert them to WCF/REST web services -
> you'll just need to change interface/fa?ade in most of the cases.
> 
> And a sample Web Service I created here is exactly a SOAP web service:
> 
> http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx
> 
> You can find comments on its interface in P.S. of this message. And you can
> consume this web service using sample code I provided in my previous
> postings within this thread. (All the C# code for this Web Service including
> comments is about 270+ code lines long - and that's all you have to write -
> no need to code manually .wsdl etc. )
> 
> Some of my experience with Web Services:
> 
> 1) One of my overseas customers (WA) did use web service running on my
> hosting site (Moscow, Russia, and it runs within common application pool)
> for several months. And this web service was queried dozen times within a
> second from his programs running on 5+ computers from his LAN there. Result:
> no any major trouble at all.
> 
> 2) Another customer does use web service developed here to synchronize
> two-way "field-force automation" local MS SQL Express databases with central
> MS SQL database running behind large ASP.NET application. No problem.
> 
> Etc.
> 
> Recap: Stop reading "junk comments", start acting.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> --
> Shamil
> 
> P.S. Sample web service interface (Note: this sample web service was made in
> one go, without any "heavy load" on brain cells, within a couple of hours
> including several times of (XCOPY) deployment on ASP.NET hosting site,
> testing etc. - I mean with some more work it can be done 100% "bullet-proof"
> but even now it should be strong enough - you can test it):
> 
> /// <summary>
> /// Test method - Hello, World!
> /// </summary>
> /// <returns>String 'Hello MS Access World!'</returns>
> [WebMethod]
> public string HelloWorld()
> 
> /// <summary>
> /// Stores given file in Web service memory
> /// </summary>
> /// <param name="fileName">File name</param>
> /// <param name="fileText">File text</param>
> /// <returns>Stored file length if file stored successfully,
> /// otherwise throws ApplicationException </returns>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter is null or
> empty</exception>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileText parameter is null or
> empty</exception>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter's value length
> exceeds 255 chars</exception>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileText parameter's value length
> exceeds 100KB chars</exception>
> /// <remarks>
> /// If the total length of stored files exceed 3MB then web service deletes
> /// stored files until there will be enough space to store a new file.
> /// </remarks> 
> [WebMethod]
> public int StoreFile(string fileName, string fileText)
> 
> /// <summary>
> /// Gets stored on web service side file
> /// </summary>
> /// <param name="fileName">File name</param>
> /// <returns>Stored file text if file retrieved successfully,
> /// otherwise throws ApplicationException </returns>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter is null or
> empty</exception>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter's value length
> exceeds 255 chars</exception>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">{fileName} - file not
> found</exception>
> [WebMethod]
> public string GetFile(string fileName)
> 
> /// <summary>
> /// Delets stored on web service side file
> /// </summary>
> /// <param name="fileName">File name</param>
> /// <returns>True if file deleted successfully,
> /// otherwise throws ApplicationException </returns>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter is null or
> empty</exception>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter's value length
> exceeds 255 chars</exception>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">{fileName} - file not
> found</exception>
> [WebMethod]
> public bool DeleteFile(string fileName)
> 
> /// <summary>
> /// Gets Web Service usage statistics
> /// </summary>
> /// <returns></returns>
> [WebMethod] 
> public string GetWebServiceUsageStatistics()
> 
> /// <summary>
> /// Gets 'Lorem Ipsum...' text
> /// </summary>
> /// <param name="amount">Speficies amount of <paramref name="what"
> parameter/></param>
> /// <param name="what">Defines generation units: words, paras, bytes,
> lists</param>
> /// <returns></returns>
> [WebMethod] 
> public string GetLoremIpsumText(long amount, string what)
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 5:21 AM
> To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
> 
> http://www.hanselman.com/blog/BreakingAllTheRulesWithWCF.aspx
> 
> Read all the comments at the bottom.
> 
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com
> 
> <<< snip>>>
>  
> 
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
> database 4380 (20090829) __________
> 
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
> 
> http://www.esetnod32.ru
>  
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 


From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Sun Aug 30 13:13:17 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 22:13:17 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <4A9A98CE.2090303@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>	<A0EE8D558F30475DA302FCEDB2F81D4F@advancedinput.com>	<002101ca28d5$3357af10$9a070d30$@spb.ru>	<4A997E5B.20909@colbyconsulting.com>	<002301ca28e9$2aaf8f40$800eadc0$@spb.ru>	<4A99D411.7000207@colbyconsulting.com>	<002d01ca2944$df79b210$9e6d1630$@spb.ru>
	<4A9A98CE.2090303@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <003a01ca299d$8d97caa0$a8c75fe0$@spb.ru>

Hi John,

OK.

<<<
What I found daunting was the gobbledegook of terms and technologies being
discussed.
>>>
John, if I'd tell you - do not bother about this "gobbledegook" now would
you accept my advice?
I mean you do not need to know all that stuff until you'll really need it -
you can just start developing and releasing SOAP Web Services - it's not
that complicated. 

I do share Ben Kloosterman's opinion: "The problem is not with WCF (or Axis)
(or SOAP) but with people who choose overly complicated scenarios"...

I called comments "junk" because most of them are not constructive, and they
do not help, even disturb beginner .NET developers to start developing and
releasing Web Services - they disturb by creating wrong impression that
developing Web Services using MS software is a very complicated task. And it
isn't.

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 7:21 PM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet

Shamil,

I understand that only people who have problems write comments about the
problems they have.  I also 
understand that if someone uses VS.Net to write both ends of the channel
then the probability of 
problems drops dramatically.

I would not characterize such comments a "junk" however, I believe that such
problems are very real, 
particularly when you are dealing with disparate technologies on either end.
The article itself was 
found in the C# start page, and he was having problems using .Net to try to
talk to a service 
created in some other technology (from the little I actually understood).

What I found daunting was the gobbledegook of terms and technologies being
discussed.  It certainly 
appeared to me that the majority of these "junk" comments were .Net
developers trying to use .Net to 
subscribe (if that is the correct phrase) to services that were created in
some other technology. 
Who had to do so for business reasons, in their work.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote:
> Hi John,
> 
> I did read comments from the ref you quoted here - they are a usual "junk"
-
> I mean real developers who use MS software do not waste time on writing
> comments how bad this MS software is :) I can assure you (as many other
> developers here) it's not that bad as you can find reading all that "junk
> comments".
> 
> BTW, I liked this comment, which I classify as very helpful, and coming
from
> experienced developer (as I also am BTW :)O:
> 
> <<<<<<<<<<
> Ben Kloosterman, 21 June 2009, 20:38:34 (Pacific Standard Time, UTC-08:00)
> 
> The problem is not with WCF (or Axis) but with people who choose overly
> complicated scenarios. WCF is far superior to Axis though because Services
> framework allow things people use them. 
> 
> eg 
> - Security 95% of the time no transport security/encryption is sufficient.
> - Use custom headers dont fudge it like the article , this method is very
> common .
> - Use complicated types , inheritcance , interfaces , collections etc ..
> KISS and use the DTO pattern. ( DOnt pollute your business domain with the
> need to tranport it)
> 
> The big advantage REST has is you cant do the fancy things but everything
> you can do with REST you can do with WCF and keep it or even more simple. 
> 
> Ben
> 
> And BTW, my current proposal is to use SOAP (ASP.NET 2.0) Web Services for
> starters - they are easier to start with = you can create such Web
Services
> within VS2008. Later on you can convert them to WCF/REST web services -
> you'll just need to change interface/fa?ade in most of the cases.
> 
> And a sample Web Service I created here is exactly a SOAP web service:
> 
> http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx
> 
> You can find comments on its interface in P.S. of this message. And you
can
> consume this web service using sample code I provided in my previous
> postings within this thread. (All the C# code for this Web Service
including
> comments is about 270+ code lines long - and that's all you have to write
-
> no need to code manually .wsdl etc. )
> 
> Some of my experience with Web Services:
> 
> 1) One of my overseas customers (WA) did use web service running on my
> hosting site (Moscow, Russia, and it runs within common application pool)
> for several months. And this web service was queried dozen times within a
> second from his programs running on 5+ computers from his LAN there.
Result:
> no any major trouble at all.
> 
> 2) Another customer does use web service developed here to synchronize
> two-way "field-force automation" local MS SQL Express databases with
central
> MS SQL database running behind large ASP.NET application. No problem.
> 
> Etc.
> 
> Recap: Stop reading "junk comments", start acting.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> --
> Shamil
> 
> P.S. Sample web service interface (Note: this sample web service was made
in
> one go, without any "heavy load" on brain cells, within a couple of hours
> including several times of (XCOPY) deployment on ASP.NET hosting site,
> testing etc. - I mean with some more work it can be done 100%
"bullet-proof"
> but even now it should be strong enough - you can test it):
> 
> /// <summary>
> /// Test method - Hello, World!
> /// </summary>
> /// <returns>String 'Hello MS Access World!'</returns>
> [WebMethod]
> public string HelloWorld()
> 
> /// <summary>
> /// Stores given file in Web service memory
> /// </summary>
> /// <param name="fileName">File name</param>
> /// <param name="fileText">File text</param>
> /// <returns>Stored file length if file stored successfully,
> /// otherwise throws ApplicationException </returns>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter is null or
> empty</exception>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileText parameter is null or
> empty</exception>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter's value
length
> exceeds 255 chars</exception>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileText parameter's value
length
> exceeds 100KB chars</exception>
> /// <remarks>
> /// If the total length of stored files exceed 3MB then web service
deletes
> /// stored files until there will be enough space to store a new file.
> /// </remarks> 
> [WebMethod]
> public int StoreFile(string fileName, string fileText)
> 
> /// <summary>
> /// Gets stored on web service side file
> /// </summary>
> /// <param name="fileName">File name</param>
> /// <returns>Stored file text if file retrieved successfully,
> /// otherwise throws ApplicationException </returns>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter is null or
> empty</exception>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter's value
length
> exceeds 255 chars</exception>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">{fileName} - file not
> found</exception>
> [WebMethod]
> public string GetFile(string fileName)
> 
> /// <summary>
> /// Delets stored on web service side file
> /// </summary>
> /// <param name="fileName">File name</param>
> /// <returns>True if file deleted successfully,
> /// otherwise throws ApplicationException </returns>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter is null or
> empty</exception>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter's value
length
> exceeds 255 chars</exception>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">{fileName} - file not
> found</exception>
> [WebMethod]
> public bool DeleteFile(string fileName)
> 
> /// <summary>
> /// Gets Web Service usage statistics
> /// </summary>
> /// <returns></returns>
> [WebMethod] 
> public string GetWebServiceUsageStatistics()
> 
> /// <summary>
> /// Gets 'Lorem Ipsum...' text
> /// </summary>
> /// <param name="amount">Speficies amount of <paramref name="what"
> parameter/></param>
> /// <param name="what">Defines generation units: words, paras, bytes,
> lists</param>
> /// <returns></returns>
> [WebMethod] 
> public string GetLoremIpsumText(long amount, string what)
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 5:21 AM
> To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
> 
> http://www.hanselman.com/blog/BreakingAllTheRulesWithWCF.aspx
> 
> Read all the comments at the bottom.
> 
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com
> 
> <<< snip>>>
>  
> 
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
signature
> database 4380 (20090829) __________
> 
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
> 
> http://www.esetnod32.ru
>  
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 
_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4381 (20090830) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru






From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Sun Aug 30 13:45:58 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 22:45:58 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Posted web service test sample at northwind.codeplex.com
Message-ID: <004001ca29a2$1e6e5b30$5b4b1190$@spb.ru>

Hi All,

 

FYI: I have posted web service test sample at northwind.codeplex.com

 

http://northwind.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=26600#D
ownloadId=81254 

 

More information on this test is posted in another posting here, which waits
moderators approval as its message body is too big: 23418 bytes with a limit
of 20 KB.

 

Thank you.

 

--

Shamil



From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Sun Aug 30 13:51:41 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 14:51:41 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <003a01ca299d$8d97caa0$a8c75fe0$@spb.ru>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>	<A0EE8D558F30475DA302FCEDB2F81D4F@advancedinput.com>	<002101ca28d5$3357af10$9a070d30$@spb.ru>	<4A997E5B.20909@colbyconsulting.com>	<002301ca28e9$2aaf8f40$800eadc0$@spb.ru>	<4A99D411.7000207@colbyconsulting.com>	<002d01ca2944$df79b210$9e6d1630$@spb.ru>	<4A9A98CE.2090303@colbyconsulting.com>
	<003a01ca299d$8d97caa0$a8c75fe0$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <4A9ACA3D.3040206@colbyconsulting.com>

Shamil,

I understand and mostly agree with your opinions.  Of course I will accept your advice, start small, 
and not worry about the gobbledygook..

 > I do share Ben Kloosterman's opinion: "The problem is not with WCF (or Axis) (or SOAP) but with 
people who choose overly complicated scenarios"...

I have to smile because you are recommending soap web services, to someone just coming up to speed 
on C# (taking a beginners class!) to replace a dead simple to implement software VPN and a shared 
directory!

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote:
> Hi John,
> 
> OK.
> 
> <<<
> What I found daunting was the gobbledegook of terms and technologies being
> discussed.
> John, if I'd tell you - do not bother about this "gobbledegook" now would
> you accept my advice?
> I mean you do not need to know all that stuff until you'll really need it -
> you can just start developing and releasing SOAP Web Services - it's not
> that complicated. 
> 
> I do share Ben Kloosterman's opinion: "The problem is not with WCF (or Axis)
> (or SOAP) but with people who choose overly complicated scenarios"...
> 
> I called comments "junk" because most of them are not constructive, and they
> do not help, even disturb beginner .NET developers to start developing and
> releasing Web Services - they disturb by creating wrong impression that
> developing Web Services using MS software is a very complicated task. And it
> isn't.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> --
> Shamil
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 7:21 PM
> To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
> 
> Shamil,
> 
> I understand that only people who have problems write comments about the
> problems they have.  I also 
> understand that if someone uses VS.Net to write both ends of the channel
> then the probability of 
> problems drops dramatically.
> 
> I would not characterize such comments a "junk" however, I believe that such
> problems are very real, 
> particularly when you are dealing with disparate technologies on either end.
> The article itself was 
> found in the C# start page, and he was having problems using .Net to try to
> talk to a service 
> created in some other technology (from the little I actually understood).
> 
> What I found daunting was the gobbledegook of terms and technologies being
> discussed.  It certainly 
> appeared to me that the majority of these "junk" comments were .Net
> developers trying to use .Net to 
> subscribe (if that is the correct phrase) to services that were created in
> some other technology. 
> Who had to do so for business reasons, in their work.
> 
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com
> 
> 
> Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote:
>> Hi John,
>>
>> I did read comments from the ref you quoted here - they are a usual "junk"
> -
>> I mean real developers who use MS software do not waste time on writing
>> comments how bad this MS software is :) I can assure you (as many other
>> developers here) it's not that bad as you can find reading all that "junk
>> comments".
>>
>> BTW, I liked this comment, which I classify as very helpful, and coming
> from
>> experienced developer (as I also am BTW :)O:
>>
>> <<<<<<<<<<
>> Ben Kloosterman, 21 June 2009, 20:38:34 (Pacific Standard Time, UTC-08:00)
>>
>> The problem is not with WCF (or Axis) but with people who choose overly
>> complicated scenarios. WCF is far superior to Axis though because Services
>> framework allow things people use them. 
>>
>> eg 
>> - Security 95% of the time no transport security/encryption is sufficient.
>> - Use custom headers dont fudge it like the article , this method is very
>> common .
>> - Use complicated types , inheritcance , interfaces , collections etc ..
>> KISS and use the DTO pattern. ( DOnt pollute your business domain with the
>> need to tranport it)
>>
>> The big advantage REST has is you cant do the fancy things but everything
>> you can do with REST you can do with WCF and keep it or even more simple. 
>>
>> Ben
>>
>> And BTW, my current proposal is to use SOAP (ASP.NET 2.0) Web Services for
>> starters - they are easier to start with = you can create such Web
> Services
>> within VS2008. Later on you can convert them to WCF/REST web services -
>> you'll just need to change interface/fa?ade in most of the cases.
>>
>> And a sample Web Service I created here is exactly a SOAP web service:
>>
>> http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx
>>
>> You can find comments on its interface in P.S. of this message. And you
> can
>> consume this web service using sample code I provided in my previous
>> postings within this thread. (All the C# code for this Web Service
> including
>> comments is about 270+ code lines long - and that's all you have to write
> -
>> no need to code manually .wsdl etc. )
>>
>> Some of my experience with Web Services:
>>
>> 1) One of my overseas customers (WA) did use web service running on my
>> hosting site (Moscow, Russia, and it runs within common application pool)
>> for several months. And this web service was queried dozen times within a
>> second from his programs running on 5+ computers from his LAN there.
> Result:
>> no any major trouble at all.
>>
>> 2) Another customer does use web service developed here to synchronize
>> two-way "field-force automation" local MS SQL Express databases with
> central
>> MS SQL database running behind large ASP.NET application. No problem.
>>
>> Etc.
>>
>> Recap: Stop reading "junk comments", start acting.
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> --
>> Shamil
>>
>> P.S. Sample web service interface (Note: this sample web service was made
> in
>> one go, without any "heavy load" on brain cells, within a couple of hours
>> including several times of (XCOPY) deployment on ASP.NET hosting site,
>> testing etc. - I mean with some more work it can be done 100%
> "bullet-proof"
>> but even now it should be strong enough - you can test it):
>>
>> /// <summary>
>> /// Test method - Hello, World!
>> /// </summary>
>> /// <returns>String 'Hello MS Access World!'</returns>
>> [WebMethod]
>> public string HelloWorld()
>>
>> /// <summary>
>> /// Stores given file in Web service memory
>> /// </summary>
>> /// <param name="fileName">File name</param>
>> /// <param name="fileText">File text</param>
>> /// <returns>Stored file length if file stored successfully,
>> /// otherwise throws ApplicationException </returns>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter is null or
>> empty</exception>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileText parameter is null or
>> empty</exception>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter's value
> length
>> exceeds 255 chars</exception>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileText parameter's value
> length
>> exceeds 100KB chars</exception>
>> /// <remarks>
>> /// If the total length of stored files exceed 3MB then web service
> deletes
>> /// stored files until there will be enough space to store a new file.
>> /// </remarks> 
>> [WebMethod]
>> public int StoreFile(string fileName, string fileText)
>>
>> /// <summary>
>> /// Gets stored on web service side file
>> /// </summary>
>> /// <param name="fileName">File name</param>
>> /// <returns>Stored file text if file retrieved successfully,
>> /// otherwise throws ApplicationException </returns>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter is null or
>> empty</exception>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter's value
> length
>> exceeds 255 chars</exception>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">{fileName} - file not
>> found</exception>
>> [WebMethod]
>> public string GetFile(string fileName)
>>
>> /// <summary>
>> /// Delets stored on web service side file
>> /// </summary>
>> /// <param name="fileName">File name</param>
>> /// <returns>True if file deleted successfully,
>> /// otherwise throws ApplicationException </returns>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter is null or
>> empty</exception>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter's value
> length
>> exceeds 255 chars</exception>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">{fileName} - file not
>> found</exception>
>> [WebMethod]
>> public bool DeleteFile(string fileName)
>>
>> /// <summary>
>> /// Gets Web Service usage statistics
>> /// </summary>
>> /// <returns></returns>
>> [WebMethod] 
>> public string GetWebServiceUsageStatistics()
>>
>> /// <summary>
>> /// Gets 'Lorem Ipsum...' text
>> /// </summary>
>> /// <param name="amount">Speficies amount of <paramref name="what"
>> parameter/></param>
>> /// <param name="what">Defines generation units: words, paras, bytes,
>> lists</param>
>> /// <returns></returns>
>> [WebMethod] 
>> public string GetLoremIpsumText(long amount, string what)
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
>> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 5:21 AM
>> To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
>> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
>>
>> http://www.hanselman.com/blog/BreakingAllTheRulesWithWCF.aspx
>>
>> Read all the comments at the bottom.
>>
>> John W. Colby
>> www.ColbyConsulting.com
>>
>> <<< snip>>>
>>  
>>
>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
> signature
>> database 4380 (20090829) __________
>>
>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>
>> http://www.esetnod32.ru
>>  
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> dba-VB mailing list
>> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
>> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
> database 4381 (20090830) __________
> 
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
> 
> http://www.esetnod32.ru
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 


From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Sun Aug 30 14:24:45 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 23:24:45 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <4A9ACA3D.3040206@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>	<A0EE8D558F30475DA302FCEDB2F81D4F@advancedinput.com>	<002101ca28d5$3357af10$9a070d30$@spb.ru>	<4A997E5B.20909@colbyconsulting.com>	<002301ca28e9$2aaf8f40$800eadc0$@spb.ru>	<4A99D411.7000207@colbyconsulting.com>	<002d01ca2944$df79b210$9e6d1630$@spb.ru>	<4A9A98CE.2090303@colbyconsulting.com>	<003a01ca299d$8d97caa0$a8c75fe0$@spb.ru>
	<4A9ACA3D.3040206@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <004501ca29a7$89bad300$9d307900$@spb.ru>

Hi John,

Of course you can use "a dead simple to implement software VPN and a shared
directory" - just do not let "gobbledygook" and "misleading comments" to
stop experimenting with .NET Web Services right now: you don't even need to
know what SOAP is as you get all the complexities of communication of client
apps with SOAP web services hidden...

You'll also hear comments that "SOAP Web Services are heavy and slow" etc. -
do not care about that if you do not need response time measured in
milliseconds - and as I have seen from your task description you do not need
such response time...

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 10:52 PM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet

Shamil,

I understand and mostly agree with your opinions.  Of course I will accept
your advice, start small, 
and not worry about the gobbledygook..

 > I do share Ben Kloosterman's opinion: "The problem is not with WCF (or
Axis) (or SOAP) but with 
people who choose overly complicated scenarios"...

I have to smile because you are recommending soap web services, to someone
just coming up to speed 
on C# (taking a beginners class!) to replace a dead simple to implement
software VPN and a shared 
directory!

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote:
> Hi John,
> 
> OK.
> 
> <<<
> What I found daunting was the gobbledegook of terms and technologies being
> discussed.
> John, if I'd tell you - do not bother about this "gobbledegook" now would
> you accept my advice?
> I mean you do not need to know all that stuff until you'll really need it
-
> you can just start developing and releasing SOAP Web Services - it's not
> that complicated. 
> 
> I do share Ben Kloosterman's opinion: "The problem is not with WCF (or
Axis)
> (or SOAP) but with people who choose overly complicated scenarios"...
> 
> I called comments "junk" because most of them are not constructive, and
they
> do not help, even disturb beginner .NET developers to start developing and
> releasing Web Services - they disturb by creating wrong impression that
> developing Web Services using MS software is a very complicated task. And
it
> isn't.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> --
> Shamil
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 7:21 PM
> To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
> 
> Shamil,
> 
> I understand that only people who have problems write comments about the
> problems they have.  I also 
> understand that if someone uses VS.Net to write both ends of the channel
> then the probability of 
> problems drops dramatically.
> 
> I would not characterize such comments a "junk" however, I believe that
such
> problems are very real, 
> particularly when you are dealing with disparate technologies on either
end.
> The article itself was 
> found in the C# start page, and he was having problems using .Net to try
to
> talk to a service 
> created in some other technology (from the little I actually understood).
> 
> What I found daunting was the gobbledegook of terms and technologies being
> discussed.  It certainly 
> appeared to me that the majority of these "junk" comments were .Net
> developers trying to use .Net to 
> subscribe (if that is the correct phrase) to services that were created in
> some other technology. 
> Who had to do so for business reasons, in their work.
> 
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com
> 
> 
> Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote:
>> Hi John,
>>
>> I did read comments from the ref you quoted here - they are a usual
"junk"
> -
>> I mean real developers who use MS software do not waste time on writing
>> comments how bad this MS software is :) I can assure you (as many other
>> developers here) it's not that bad as you can find reading all that "junk
>> comments".
>>
>> BTW, I liked this comment, which I classify as very helpful, and coming
> from
>> experienced developer (as I also am BTW :)O:
>>
>> <<<<<<<<<<
>> Ben Kloosterman, 21 June 2009, 20:38:34 (Pacific Standard Time,
UTC-08:00)
>>
>> The problem is not with WCF (or Axis) but with people who choose overly
>> complicated scenarios. WCF is far superior to Axis though because
Services
>> framework allow things people use them. 
>>
>> eg 
>> - Security 95% of the time no transport security/encryption is
sufficient.
>> - Use custom headers dont fudge it like the article , this method is very
>> common .
>> - Use complicated types , inheritcance , interfaces , collections etc ..
>> KISS and use the DTO pattern. ( DOnt pollute your business domain with
the
>> need to tranport it)
>>
>> The big advantage REST has is you cant do the fancy things but everything
>> you can do with REST you can do with WCF and keep it or even more simple.

>>
>> Ben
>>
>> And BTW, my current proposal is to use SOAP (ASP.NET 2.0) Web Services
for
>> starters - they are easier to start with = you can create such Web
> Services
>> within VS2008. Later on you can convert them to WCF/REST web services -
>> you'll just need to change interface/fa?ade in most of the cases.
>>
>> And a sample Web Service I created here is exactly a SOAP web service:
>>
>> http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx
>>
>> You can find comments on its interface in P.S. of this message. And you
> can
>> consume this web service using sample code I provided in my previous
>> postings within this thread. (All the C# code for this Web Service
> including
>> comments is about 270+ code lines long - and that's all you have to write
> -
>> no need to code manually .wsdl etc. )
>>
>> Some of my experience with Web Services:
>>
>> 1) One of my overseas customers (WA) did use web service running on my
>> hosting site (Moscow, Russia, and it runs within common application pool)
>> for several months. And this web service was queried dozen times within a
>> second from his programs running on 5+ computers from his LAN there.
> Result:
>> no any major trouble at all.
>>
>> 2) Another customer does use web service developed here to synchronize
>> two-way "field-force automation" local MS SQL Express databases with
> central
>> MS SQL database running behind large ASP.NET application. No problem.
>>
>> Etc.
>>
>> Recap: Stop reading "junk comments", start acting.
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> --
>> Shamil
>>
>> P.S. Sample web service interface (Note: this sample web service was made
> in
>> one go, without any "heavy load" on brain cells, within a couple of hours
>> including several times of (XCOPY) deployment on ASP.NET hosting site,
>> testing etc. - I mean with some more work it can be done 100%
> "bullet-proof"
>> but even now it should be strong enough - you can test it):
>>
>> /// <summary>
>> /// Test method - Hello, World!
>> /// </summary>
>> /// <returns>String 'Hello MS Access World!'</returns>
>> [WebMethod]
>> public string HelloWorld()
>>
>> /// <summary>
>> /// Stores given file in Web service memory
>> /// </summary>
>> /// <param name="fileName">File name</param>
>> /// <param name="fileText">File text</param>
>> /// <returns>Stored file length if file stored successfully,
>> /// otherwise throws ApplicationException </returns>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter is null or
>> empty</exception>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileText parameter is null or
>> empty</exception>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter's value
> length
>> exceeds 255 chars</exception>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileText parameter's value
> length
>> exceeds 100KB chars</exception>
>> /// <remarks>
>> /// If the total length of stored files exceed 3MB then web service
> deletes
>> /// stored files until there will be enough space to store a new file.
>> /// </remarks> 
>> [WebMethod]
>> public int StoreFile(string fileName, string fileText)
>>
>> /// <summary>
>> /// Gets stored on web service side file
>> /// </summary>
>> /// <param name="fileName">File name</param>
>> /// <returns>Stored file text if file retrieved successfully,
>> /// otherwise throws ApplicationException </returns>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter is null or
>> empty</exception>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter's value
> length
>> exceeds 255 chars</exception>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">{fileName} - file not
>> found</exception>
>> [WebMethod]
>> public string GetFile(string fileName)
>>
>> /// <summary>
>> /// Delets stored on web service side file
>> /// </summary>
>> /// <param name="fileName">File name</param>
>> /// <returns>True if file deleted successfully,
>> /// otherwise throws ApplicationException </returns>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter is null or
>> empty</exception>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter's value
> length
>> exceeds 255 chars</exception>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">{fileName} - file not
>> found</exception>
>> [WebMethod]
>> public bool DeleteFile(string fileName)
>>
>> /// <summary>
>> /// Gets Web Service usage statistics
>> /// </summary>
>> /// <returns></returns>
>> [WebMethod] 
>> public string GetWebServiceUsageStatistics()
>>
>> /// <summary>
>> /// Gets 'Lorem Ipsum...' text
>> /// </summary>
>> /// <param name="amount">Speficies amount of <paramref name="what"
>> parameter/></param>
>> /// <param name="what">Defines generation units: words, paras, bytes,
>> lists</param>
>> /// <returns></returns>
>> [WebMethod] 
>> public string GetLoremIpsumText(long amount, string what)
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
>> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 5:21 AM
>> To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
>> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
>>
>> http://www.hanselman.com/blog/BreakingAllTheRulesWithWCF.aspx
>>
>> Read all the comments at the bottom.
>>
>> John W. Colby
>> www.ColbyConsulting.com
>>
>> <<< snip>>>
>>  
>>
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>>
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>>
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From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Sun Aug 30 14:34:13 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 23:34:13 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Posted web service test sample at
	northwind.codeplex.com
In-Reply-To: <004001ca29a2$1e6e5b30$5b4b1190$@spb.ru>
References: <004001ca29a2$1e6e5b30$5b4b1190$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <004601ca29a8$dbf17740$93d465c0$@spb.ru>

Hi All,

I have to post a note on stats reported by test code:

--
Test cycle started at 30.08.2009 23:24:52, cycles left = 1340
Elapsed Time = 2,49 seconds for 20 calls (0,1245s/call, fileSize = 30410)

Total Elapsed Time In Seconds = 479,88
Total Web Service Calls = 2220,00
Total Files' Bytes Transferred = 17243880,00
Avg.ThroughOutput = 35933,81 bytes/s
--

First line reports starting time of the current test cycle, which consists
of 20 calls to Web Service: 10 "StoreFile" calls and 10 "GetFile" calls,
every call transfers to the Web Service/retrieves 30410 bytes (not counting
"SOAP" envelopes' bytes)

Second line reports the stats for completed current cycle.

Third till sixth lines report overall stats for all the calls (from all the
PCs anywhere test will run) to the web service since this web service was
released.

There could be errors in the code/stats calculation - please post your
remarks if you'll find some.

Thank you.

--
Shamil


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil
Salakhetdinov
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 10:46 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: [dba-VB] Posted web service test sample at northwind.codeplex.com

Hi All,

 

FYI: I have posted web service test sample at northwind.codeplex.com

 

http://northwind.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=26600#D
ownloadId=81254 

 

More information on this test is posted in another posting here, which waits
moderators approval as its message body is too big: 23418 bytes with a limit
of 20 KB.

 

Thank you.

 

--

Shamil

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From Gustav at cactus.dk  Sun Aug 30 16:24:42 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 23:24:42 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
Message-ID: <sa9b0a54.021@cactus.dk>

Hi John

I'll have to second Shamil. When I joined an early presentation of Windows Communication Foundation it was the first time I began understanding what web services are about - all other info had been bits and pieces, some working but none with the big picture. WCF is so well thought out that you can say "this time MS got it right".

Also note, that the guy at the blog is not having an issue with WCF but states that "I still need to get the WCF client to talk to this unusual endpoint".
Unfortunately, this is an example of how blogs can be a total waste of time. This guy obviously knows what he talks about but - like Shamil - I browsed the comments (before reading Shamil's message here on the same) only to find them talking in East and West with no useful or educating info except one - the same that Shamil has quoted previously.

For any other project than your current very simple one I would happily go with WCF.

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 30-08-2009 20:13 >>>
Hi John,

OK.

<<<
What I found daunting was the gobbledegook of terms and technologies being
discussed.
>>>
John, if I'd tell you - do not bother about this "gobbledegook" now would
you accept my advice?
I mean you do not need to know all that stuff until you'll really need it -
you can just start developing and releasing SOAP Web Services - it's not
that complicated. 

I do share Ben Kloosterman's opinion: "The problem is not with WCF (or Axis)
(or SOAP) but with people who choose overly complicated scenarios"...

I called comments "junk" because most of them are not constructive, and they
do not help, even disturb beginner .NET developers to start developing and
releasing Web Services - they disturb by creating wrong impression that
developing Web Services using MS software is a very complicated task. And it
isn't.

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 7:21 PM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet

Shamil,

I understand that only people who have problems write comments about the problems they have.  I also 
understand that if someone uses VS.Net to write both ends of the channel then the probability of 
problems drops dramatically.

I would not characterize such comments a "junk" however, I believe that such problems are very real, 
particularly when you are dealing with disparate technologies on either end. The article itself was 
found in the C# start page, and he was having problems using .Net to try to talk to a service 
created in some other technology (from the little I actually understood).

What I found daunting was the gobbledegook of terms and technologies being discussed.  It certainly 
appeared to me that the majority of these "junk" comments were .Net developers trying to use .Net to 
subscribe (if that is the correct phrase) to services that were created in some other technology. 
Who had to do so for business reasons, in their work.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com 


Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote:
> Hi John,
> 
> I did read comments from the ref you quoted here - they are a usual "junk"
-
> I mean real developers who use MS software do not waste time on writing
> comments how bad this MS software is :) I can assure you (as many other
> developers here) it's not that bad as you can find reading all that "junk
> comments".
> 
> BTW, I liked this comment, which I classify as very helpful, and coming
from
> experienced developer (as I also am BTW :)O:
> 
> <<<<<<<<<<
> Ben Kloosterman, 21 June 2009, 20:38:34 (Pacific Standard Time, UTC-08:00)
> 
> The problem is not with WCF (or Axis) but with people who choose overly
> complicated scenarios. WCF is far superior to Axis though because Services
> framework allow things people use them. 
> 
> eg 
> - Security 95% of the time no transport security/encryption is sufficient.
> - Use custom headers dont fudge it like the article , this method is very
> common .
> - Use complicated types , inheritcance , interfaces , collections etc ..
> KISS and use the DTO pattern. ( DOnt pollute your business domain with the
> need to tranport it)
> 
> The big advantage REST has is you cant do the fancy things but everything
> you can do with REST you can do with WCF and keep it or even more simple. 
> 
> Ben
> 
> And BTW, my current proposal is to use SOAP (ASP.NET 2.0) Web Services for
> starters - they are easier to start with = you can create such Web
Services
> within VS2008. Later on you can convert them to WCF/REST web services -
> you'll just need to change interface/fa?ade in most of the cases.
> 
> And a sample Web Service I created here is exactly a SOAP web service:
> 
> http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx 
> 
> You can find comments on its interface in P.S. of this message. And you
can
> consume this web service using sample code I provided in my previous
> postings within this thread. (All the C# code for this Web Service
including
> comments is about 270+ code lines long - and that's all you have to write
-
> no need to code manually .wsdl etc. )
> 
> Some of my experience with Web Services:
> 
> 1) One of my overseas customers (WA) did use web service running on my
> hosting site (Moscow, Russia, and it runs within common application pool)
> for several months. And this web service was queried dozen times within a
> second from his programs running on 5+ computers from his LAN there.
Result:
> no any major trouble at all.
> 
> 2) Another customer does use web service developed here to synchronize
> two-way "field-force automation" local MS SQL Express databases with
central
> MS SQL database running behind large ASP.NET application. No problem.
> 
> Etc.
> 
> Recap: Stop reading "junk comments", start acting.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> --
> Shamil




From dbdoug at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 16:47:35 2009
From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 14:47:35 -0700
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <sa9b0a54.021@cactus.dk>
References: <sa9b0a54.021@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <4dd71a0c0908301447s1c1fc75cw1eac8e9761f2a50@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Gustav (and Shamil)

I've been following this discussion with some interest.  My impression of
web services is that they are basically for publishing information (like a
parts catalogue) which could be read and used by clients.  I gather that
this is not the whole picture.

I've spent several hours on the web recently trying to get more information;
however I have yet to stumble on a site which gives a clear explanation
and/or some practical examples.  Do you have any good references?

Thanks,

Doug Steele

On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 2:24 PM, Gustav Brock <Gustav at cactus.dk> wrote:

> Hi John
>
> I'll have to second Shamil. When I joined an early presentation of Windows
> Communication Foundation it was the first time I began understanding what
> web services are about - all other info had been bits and pieces, some
> working but none with the big picture. WCF is so well thought out that you
> can say "this time MS got it right".
>
>
>


From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Sun Aug 30 16:59:54 2009
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 07:59:54 +1000
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <4A9ACA3D.3040206@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>,
	<003a01ca299d$8d97caa0$a8c75fe0$@spb.ru>,
	<4A9ACA3D.3040206@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <4A9AF65A.10563.18F51086@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

WCF, SOAP, Web Services etc are necessary if you are exposing services to all and 
sundry on the web.

There are far simpler ways to exchange data when you have control of both the client and 
the server. These other methods do not require you to set up a web server and publish a 
schema which then opens up your data to the whole world.  Take a look at a simple TCPIP 
client/server solution first.  Here's a simple one in VB .Net 

http://www.eggheadcafe.com/articles/20020323.asp

This could be easily modified to do the sort of thing you are after, with the Listener 
application doing most of the work.

-- 
Stuart

On 30 Aug 2009 at 14:51, jwcolby wrote:

> Shamil,
> 
> I understand and mostly agree with your opinions.  Of course I will accept your advice, start small, 
> and not worry about the gobbledygook..
> 
>  > I do share Ben Kloosterman's opinion: "The problem is not with WCF (or Axis) (or SOAP) but with 
> people who choose overly complicated scenarios"...
> 
> I have to smile because you are recommending soap web services, to someone just coming up to speed 
> on C# (taking a beginners class!) to replace a dead simple to implement software VPN and a shared 
> directory!
> 
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com
> 
> 
> Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote:
> > Hi John,
> > 
> > OK.
> > 
> > <<<
> > What I found daunting was the gobbledegook of terms and technologies being
> > discussed.
> > John, if I'd tell you - do not bother about this "gobbledegook" now would
> > you accept my advice?
> > I mean you do not need to know all that stuff until you'll really need it -
> > you can just start developing and releasing SOAP Web Services - it's not
> > that complicated. 
> > 
> > I do share Ben Kloosterman's opinion: "The problem is not with WCF (or Axis)
> > (or SOAP) but with people who choose overly complicated scenarios"...
> > 
> > I called comments "junk" because most of them are not constructive, and they
> > do not help, even disturb beginner .NET developers to start developing and
> > releasing Web Services - they disturb by creating wrong impression that
> > developing Web Services using MS software is a very complicated task. And it
> > isn't.
> > 
> > Thank you.
> > 
> > --
> > Shamil
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
> > Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 7:21 PM
> > To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
> > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
> > 
> > Shamil,
> > 
> > I understand that only people who have problems write comments about the
> > problems they have.  I also 
> > understand that if someone uses VS.Net to write both ends of the channel
> > then the probability of 
> > problems drops dramatically.
> > 
> > I would not characterize such comments a "junk" however, I believe that such
> > problems are very real, 
> > particularly when you are dealing with disparate technologies on either end.
> > The article itself was 
> > found in the C# start page, and he was having problems using .Net to try to
> > talk to a service 
> > created in some other technology (from the little I actually understood).
> > 
> > What I found daunting was the gobbledegook of terms and technologies being
> > discussed.  It certainly 
> > appeared to me that the majority of these "junk" comments were .Net
> > developers trying to use .Net to 
> > subscribe (if that is the correct phrase) to services that were created in
> > some other technology. 
> > Who had to do so for business reasons, in their work.
> > 
> > John W. Colby
> > www.ColbyConsulting.com
> > 
> > 
> > Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote:
> >> Hi John,
> >>
> >> I did read comments from the ref you quoted here - they are a usual "junk"
> > -
> >> I mean real developers who use MS software do not waste time on writing
> >> comments how bad this MS software is :) I can assure you (as many other
> >> developers here) it's not that bad as you can find reading all that "junk
> >> comments".
> >>
> >> BTW, I liked this comment, which I classify as very helpful, and coming
> > from
> >> experienced developer (as I also am BTW :)O:
> >>
> >> <<<<<<<<<<
> >> Ben Kloosterman, 21 June 2009, 20:38:34 (Pacific Standard Time, UTC-08:00)
> >>
> >> The problem is not with WCF (or Axis) but with people who choose overly
> >> complicated scenarios. WCF is far superior to Axis though because Services
> >> framework allow things people use them. 
> >>
> >> eg 
> >> - Security 95% of the time no transport security/encryption is sufficient.
> >> - Use custom headers dont fudge it like the article , this method is very
> >> common .
> >> - Use complicated types , inheritcance , interfaces , collections etc ..
> >> KISS and use the DTO pattern. ( DOnt pollute your business domain with the
> >> need to tranport it)
> >>
> >> The big advantage REST has is you cant do the fancy things but everything
> >> you can do with REST you can do with WCF and keep it or even more simple. 
> >>
> >> Ben
> >>
> >> And BTW, my current proposal is to use SOAP (ASP.NET 2.0) Web Services for
> >> starters - they are easier to start with = you can create such Web
> > Services
> >> within VS2008. Later on you can convert them to WCF/REST web services -
> >> you'll just need to change interface/fa?ade in most of the cases.
> >>
> >> And a sample Web Service I created here is exactly a SOAP web service:
> >>
> >> http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx
> >>
> >> You can find comments on its interface in P.S. of this message. And you
> > can
> >> consume this web service using sample code I provided in my previous
> >> postings within this thread. (All the C# code for this Web Service
> > including
> >> comments is about 270+ code lines long - and that's all you have to write
> > -
> >> no need to code manually .wsdl etc. )
> >>
> >> Some of my experience with Web Services:
> >>
> >> 1) One of my overseas customers (WA) did use web service running on my
> >> hosting site (Moscow, Russia, and it runs within common application pool)
> >> for several months. And this web service was queried dozen times within a
> >> second from his programs running on 5+ computers from his LAN there.
> > Result:
> >> no any major trouble at all.
> >>
> >> 2) Another customer does use web service developed here to synchronize
> >> two-way "field-force automation" local MS SQL Express databases with
> > central
> >> MS SQL database running behind large ASP.NET application. No problem.
> >>
> >> Etc.
> >>
> >> Recap: Stop reading "junk comments", start acting.
> >>
> >> Thank you.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Shamil
> >>
> >> P.S. Sample web service interface (Note: this sample web service was made
> > in
> >> one go, without any "heavy load" on brain cells, within a couple of hours
> >> including several times of (XCOPY) deployment on ASP.NET hosting site,
> >> testing etc. - I mean with some more work it can be done 100%
> > "bullet-proof"
> >> but even now it should be strong enough - you can test it):
> >>
> >> /// <summary>
> >> /// Test method - Hello, World!
> >> /// </summary>
> >> /// <returns>String 'Hello MS Access World!'</returns>
> >> [WebMethod]
> >> public string HelloWorld()
> >>
> >> /// <summary>
> >> /// Stores given file in Web service memory
> >> /// </summary>
> >> /// <param name="fileName">File name</param>
> >> /// <param name="fileText">File text</param>
> >> /// <returns>Stored file length if file stored successfully,
> >> /// otherwise throws ApplicationException </returns>
> >> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter is null or
> >> empty</exception>
> >> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileText parameter is null or
> >> empty</exception>
> >> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter's value
> > length
> >> exceeds 255 chars</exception>
> >> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileText parameter's value
> > length
> >> exceeds 100KB chars</exception>
> >> /// <remarks>
> >> /// If the total length of stored files exceed 3MB then web service
> > deletes
> >> /// stored files until there will be enough space to store a new file.
> >> /// </remarks> 
> >> [WebMethod]
> >> public int StoreFile(string fileName, string fileText)
> >>
> >> /// <summary>
> >> /// Gets stored on web service side file
> >> /// </summary>
> >> /// <param name="fileName">File name</param>
> >> /// <returns>Stored file text if file retrieved successfully,
> >> /// otherwise throws ApplicationException </returns>
> >> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter is null or
> >> empty</exception>
> >> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter's value
> > length
> >> exceeds 255 chars</exception>
> >> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">{fileName} - file not
> >> found</exception>
> >> [WebMethod]
> >> public string GetFile(string fileName)
> >>
> >> /// <summary>
> >> /// Delets stored on web service side file
> >> /// </summary>
> >> /// <param name="fileName">File name</param>
> >> /// <returns>True if file deleted successfully,
> >> /// otherwise throws ApplicationException </returns>
> >> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter is null or
> >> empty</exception>
> >> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter's value
> > length
> >> exceeds 255 chars</exception>
> >> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">{fileName} - file not
> >> found</exception>
> >> [WebMethod]
> >> public bool DeleteFile(string fileName)
> >>
> >> /// <summary>
> >> /// Gets Web Service usage statistics
> >> /// </summary>
> >> /// <returns></returns>
> >> [WebMethod] 
> >> public string GetWebServiceUsageStatistics()
> >>
> >> /// <summary>
> >> /// Gets 'Lorem Ipsum...' text
> >> /// </summary>
> >> /// <param name="amount">Speficies amount of <paramref name="what"
> >> parameter/></param>
> >> /// <param name="what">Defines generation units: words, paras, bytes,
> >> lists</param>
> >> /// <returns></returns>
> >> [WebMethod] 
> >> public string GetLoremIpsumText(long amount, string what)
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> >> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
> >> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 5:21 AM
> >> To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
> >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
> >>
> >> http://www.hanselman.com/blog/BreakingAllTheRulesWithWCF.aspx
> >>
> >> Read all the comments at the bottom.
> >>
> >> John W. Colby
> >> www.ColbyConsulting.com
> >>
> >> <<< snip>>>
> >>  
> >>
> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
> > signature
> >> database 4380 (20090829) __________
> >>
> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
> >>
> >> http://www.esetnod32.ru
> >>  
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> dba-VB mailing list
> >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >>
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > dba-VB mailing list
> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > 
> > 
> > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
> > database 4381 (20090830) __________
> > 
> > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
> > 
> > http://www.esetnod32.ru
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > dba-VB mailing list
> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > 
> > 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 





From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Sun Aug 30 17:07:23 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 18:07:23 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] SPAM-LOW:  Re:  Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <sa9b0a54.021@cactus.dk>
References: <sa9b0a54.021@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <4A9AF81B.7000906@colbyconsulting.com>

Gustav,

 > For any other project than your current very simple one I would happily go with WCF.

And in fact I am rewriting this very simple project into C#, more as an exercise in doing so and 
making a commitment to a real live in-use app than because it absolutely requires a rewrite.

Having done so, and having the (small) time in the trenches getting it running etc., then using a 
web service may in fact make sense even for this very simple project.

This client has a bunch more stuff that he wants to be doing.  This current project (in Access) is 
his baby but it is only the start.  I have convinced him that I know what I am doing (in general 
terms, and in Access) and he is making plans for us doing the future.  The future will involve more 
of the same kind of stuff so having a standardized file transfer thing going would be a good very 
thing.

We are looking at doing an application for sale.  For that I believe that having it in C# could be a 
plus for a couple of reasons - the power of the .Net environment as well as the public perception of 
C# vs Access.  It is in preparation for that future that I am doing the rewrite of this first piece 
(and taking the class).  I need the practice!

 >I browsed the comments (before reading Shamil's message here on the same) only to find them 
talking in East and West with no useful or educating info except one - the same that Shamil has 
quoted previously.

I hear you, and I still find these kinds of comments useful for what they are - bitches about the 
pain of what is supposed to be a standard not being a standard.  Please do not take my comment as in 
any way "defending" whatever they are saying, simply that each such comment represents a truth for 
an individual out there somewhere.  Obviously they are not offering advice or solutions, simply 
irritated comments about the reality that they are exposed to.  OTOH that reality is .Net banging 
against another platform, not .Net banging against .Net.

In the same way, I read the all comments, including negative comments about anything I am 
researching to buy on Amazon.com or Newegg.com etc.  Things don't always work the way they are 
supposed to and it is useful to hear the negatives.

These comments were in response to a "it was a PITA" blog, so naturally they are going to chime in 
with their own PITA experiences and the general tone is down.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi John
> 
> I'll have to second Shamil. When I joined an early presentation of Windows Communication Foundation it was the first time I began understanding what web services are about - all other info had been bits and pieces, some working but none with the big picture. WCF is so well thought out that you can say "this time MS got it right".
> 
> Also note, that the guy at the blog is not having an issue with WCF but states that "I still need to get the WCF client to talk to this unusual endpoint".
> Unfortunately, this is an example of how blogs can be a total waste of time. This guy obviously knows what he talks about but - like Shamil - I browsed the comments (before reading Shamil's message here on the same) only to find them talking in East and West with no useful or educating info except one - the same that Shamil has quoted previously.
> 
> For any other project than your current very simple one I would happily go with WCF.
> 
> /gustav



From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Sun Aug 30 17:18:36 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 18:18:36 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] SPAM-LOW:  Re:  Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <4A9AF65A.10563.18F51086@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>,
	<003a01ca299d$8d97caa0$a8c75fe0$@spb.ru>,
	<4A9ACA3D.3040206@colbyconsulting.com>
	<4A9AF65A.10563.18F51086@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
Message-ID: <4A9AFABC.9000101@colbyconsulting.com>

Thanks Stuart.

I believe one of the implications of the service route was that the whole TCP/IP address / port 
thing goes away, IOW it can get through a firewall without having to get the intervention of IT.

I am listening to all points of view.  Luckily I am in no hurry here, it will be six months or more 
before I need to solve this problem, or even have the requisite knowledge.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Stuart McLachlan wrote:
> WCF, SOAP, Web Services etc are necessary if you are exposing services to all and 
> sundry on the web.
> 
> There are far simpler ways to exchange data when you have control of both the client and 
> the server. These other methods do not require you to set up a web server and publish a 
> schema which then opens up your data to the whole world.  Take a look at a simple TCPIP 
> client/server solution first.  Here's a simple one in VB .Net 
> 
> http://www.eggheadcafe.com/articles/20020323.asp
> 
> This could be easily modified to do the sort of thing you are after, with the Listener 
> application doing most of the work.
> 


From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Sun Aug 30 17:47:09 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 18:47:09 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] SPAM-LOW:  Re:  Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <sa9b0a54.021@cactus.dk>
References: <sa9b0a54.021@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <4A9B016D.7000709@colbyconsulting.com>

OK, I have a couple of books on the way on WCF.  Looks like light reading!

;)

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi John
> 
> I'll have to second Shamil. When I joined an early presentation of Windows Communication Foundation it was the first time I began understanding what web services are about - all other info had been bits and pieces, some working but none with the big picture. WCF is so well thought out that you can say "this time MS got it right".
> 
> Also note, that the guy at the blog is not having an issue with WCF but states that "I still need to get the WCF client to talk to this unusual endpoint".
> Unfortunately, this is an example of how blogs can be a total waste of time. This guy obviously knows what he talks about but - like Shamil - I browsed the comments (before reading Shamil's message here on the same) only to find them talking in East and West with no useful or educating info except one - the same that Shamil has quoted previously.
> 
> For any other project than your current very simple one I would happily go with WCF.
> 
> /gustav
> 
> 
>>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 30-08-2009 20:13 >>>
> Hi John,
> 
> OK.
> 
> <<<
> What I found daunting was the gobbledegook of terms and technologies being
> discussed.
> John, if I'd tell you - do not bother about this "gobbledegook" now would
> you accept my advice?
> I mean you do not need to know all that stuff until you'll really need it -
> you can just start developing and releasing SOAP Web Services - it's not
> that complicated. 
> 
> I do share Ben Kloosterman's opinion: "The problem is not with WCF (or Axis)
> (or SOAP) but with people who choose overly complicated scenarios"...
> 
> I called comments "junk" because most of them are not constructive, and they
> do not help, even disturb beginner .NET developers to start developing and
> releasing Web Services - they disturb by creating wrong impression that
> developing Web Services using MS software is a very complicated task. And it
> isn't.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> --
> Shamil
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 7:21 PM
> To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
> 
> Shamil,
> 
> I understand that only people who have problems write comments about the problems they have.  I also 
> understand that if someone uses VS.Net to write both ends of the channel then the probability of 
> problems drops dramatically.
> 
> I would not characterize such comments a "junk" however, I believe that such problems are very real, 
> particularly when you are dealing with disparate technologies on either end. The article itself was 
> found in the C# start page, and he was having problems using .Net to try to talk to a service 
> created in some other technology (from the little I actually understood).
> 
> What I found daunting was the gobbledegook of terms and technologies being discussed.  It certainly 
> appeared to me that the majority of these "junk" comments were .Net developers trying to use .Net to 
> subscribe (if that is the correct phrase) to services that were created in some other technology. 
> Who had to do so for business reasons, in their work.
> 
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com 
> 
> 
> Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote:
>> Hi John,
>>
>> I did read comments from the ref you quoted here - they are a usual "junk"
> -
>> I mean real developers who use MS software do not waste time on writing
>> comments how bad this MS software is :) I can assure you (as many other
>> developers here) it's not that bad as you can find reading all that "junk
>> comments".
>>
>> BTW, I liked this comment, which I classify as very helpful, and coming
> from
>> experienced developer (as I also am BTW :)O:
>>
>> <<<<<<<<<<
>> Ben Kloosterman, 21 June 2009, 20:38:34 (Pacific Standard Time, UTC-08:00)
>>
>> The problem is not with WCF (or Axis) but with people who choose overly
>> complicated scenarios. WCF is far superior to Axis though because Services
>> framework allow things people use them. 
>>
>> eg 
>> - Security 95% of the time no transport security/encryption is sufficient.
>> - Use custom headers dont fudge it like the article , this method is very
>> common .
>> - Use complicated types , inheritcance , interfaces , collections etc ..
>> KISS and use the DTO pattern. ( DOnt pollute your business domain with the
>> need to tranport it)
>>
>> The big advantage REST has is you cant do the fancy things but everything
>> you can do with REST you can do with WCF and keep it or even more simple. 
>>
>> Ben
>>
>> And BTW, my current proposal is to use SOAP (ASP.NET 2.0) Web Services for
>> starters - they are easier to start with = you can create such Web
> Services
>> within VS2008. Later on you can convert them to WCF/REST web services -
>> you'll just need to change interface/fa?ade in most of the cases.
>>
>> And a sample Web Service I created here is exactly a SOAP web service:
>>
>> http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx 
>>
>> You can find comments on its interface in P.S. of this message. And you
> can
>> consume this web service using sample code I provided in my previous
>> postings within this thread. (All the C# code for this Web Service
> including
>> comments is about 270+ code lines long - and that's all you have to write
> -
>> no need to code manually .wsdl etc. )
>>
>> Some of my experience with Web Services:
>>
>> 1) One of my overseas customers (WA) did use web service running on my
>> hosting site (Moscow, Russia, and it runs within common application pool)
>> for several months. And this web service was queried dozen times within a
>> second from his programs running on 5+ computers from his LAN there.
> Result:
>> no any major trouble at all.
>>
>> 2) Another customer does use web service developed here to synchronize
>> two-way "field-force automation" local MS SQL Express databases with
> central
>> MS SQL database running behind large ASP.NET application. No problem.
>>
>> Etc.
>>
>> Recap: Stop reading "junk comments", start acting.
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> --
>> Shamil
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 


From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Sun Aug 30 18:30:02 2009
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 09:30:02 +1000
Subject: [dba-VB] SPAM-LOW:  Re:  Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <4A9AFABC.9000101@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>,
	<4A9AF65A.10563.18F51086@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>,
	<4A9AFABC.9000101@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <4A9B0B7A.29443.1947931F@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

The only reason it "goes away" is because web services use the standard HTTP port 80 
which is open by default on most routers.   That means there is no configuration needed on 
the client machines.  

But you will still need "IT" to configure the router and set up port forwarding to point to the 
server hosting the web service.  Of course, this is not an issue where you set up a web 
service on a public web server, but that is not what you are trying to do - you want 
something hosted internally which can access your internal file systems and databases and 
interface in a controlled manner with other machines.

There's nothing to stop you from using the same port 80 for your own TCP/IP Listener 
application. 

You can also any of the other "standard" ports which are likely to be open on a router such 
as FTP (21), SMTP(25),  POP3(110) etc

I have a couple of such Listener applications which do the sort of things you are after, but 
they are written in PB/Win - if you want to look at them to get a better idea of oterh way you 
can do this, I will send the source to you off line.


-- 
Stuart



On 30 Aug 2009 at 18:18, jwcolby wrote:

> Thanks Stuart.
> 
> I believe one of the implications of the service route was that the whole TCP/IP address / port 
> thing goes away, IOW it can get through a firewall without having to get the intervention of IT.
> 
> I am listening to all points of view.  Luckily I am in no hurry here, it will be six months or more 
> before I need to solve this problem, or even have the requisite knowledge.
> 
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com
> 
> 
> Stuart McLachlan wrote:
> > WCF, SOAP, Web Services etc are necessary if you are exposing services to all and 
> > sundry on the web.
> > 
> > There are far simpler ways to exchange data when you have control of both the client and 
> > the server. These other methods do not require you to set up a web server and publish a 
> > schema which then opens up your data to the whole world.  Take a look at a simple TCPIP 
> > client/server solution first.  Here's a simple one in VB .Net 
> > 
> > http://www.eggheadcafe.com/articles/20020323.asp
> > 
> > This could be easily modified to do the sort of thing you are after, with the Listener 
> > application doing most of the work.
> > 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 




From ebarro at verizon.net  Sun Aug 30 23:25:00 2009
From: ebarro at verizon.net (Eric Barro)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 21:25:00 -0700
Subject: [dba-VB] SPAM-LOW:  Re:  Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <4A9B0B7A.29443.1947931F@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>,
	<4A9AF65A.10563.18F51086@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>,
	<4A9AFABC.9000101@colbyconsulting.com>
	<4A9B0B7A.29443.1947931F@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
Message-ID: <83793773C208434D94153FDCDEAC4BB8@advancedinput.com>

Didn't the original spec indicate that the CSV file would be dropped into a
web location where the client machines could pick them up?

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 4:30 PM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SPAM-LOW: Re: Access data across the internet

The only reason it "goes away" is because web services use the standard HTTP
port 80 
which is open by default on most routers.   That means there is no
configuration needed on 
the client machines.  

But you will still need "IT" to configure the router and set up port
forwarding to point to the server hosting the web service.  Of course, this
is not an issue where you set up a web service on a public web server, but
that is not what you are trying to do - you want something hosted internally
which can access your internal file systems and databases and interface in a
controlled manner with other machines.

There's nothing to stop you from using the same port 80 for your own TCP/IP
Listener application. 

You can also any of the other "standard" ports which are likely to be open
on a router such as FTP (21), SMTP(25),  POP3(110) etc

I have a couple of such Listener applications which do the sort of things
you are after, but they are written in PB/Win - if you want to look at them
to get a better idea of oterh way you can do this, I will send the source to
you off line.


--
Stuart



On 30 Aug 2009 at 18:18, jwcolby wrote:

> Thanks Stuart.
> 
> I believe one of the implications of the service route was that the whole
TCP/IP address / port 
> thing goes away, IOW it can get through a firewall without having to get
the intervention of IT.
> 
> I am listening to all points of view.  Luckily I am in no hurry here, it
will be six months or more 
> before I need to solve this problem, or even have the requisite knowledge.
> 
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com
> 
> 
> Stuart McLachlan wrote:
> > WCF, SOAP, Web Services etc are necessary if you are exposing services
to all and 
> > sundry on the web.
> > 
> > There are far simpler ways to exchange data when you have control of
both the client and 
> > the server. These other methods do not require you to set up a web
server and publish a 
> > schema which then opens up your data to the whole world.  Take a look at
a simple TCPIP 
> > client/server solution first.  Here's a simple one in VB .Net 
> > 
> > http://www.eggheadcafe.com/articles/20020323.asp
> > 
> > This could be easily modified to do the sort of thing you are after,
with the Listener 
> > application doing most of the work.
> > 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 


_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Mon Aug 31 01:53:13 2009
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 16:53:13 +1000
Subject: [dba-VB] SPAM-LOW:  Re:  Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <83793773C208434D94153FDCDEAC4BB8@advancedinput.com>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>,
	<4A9B0B7A.29443.1947931F@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>,
	<83793773C208434D94153FDCDEAC4BB8@advancedinput.com>
Message-ID: <4A9B7359.15314.1ADD54A1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

No,

As I read it, John's original scenario was several client locations processing files locally with  
a shared directory structure in the main location. He was looking at ways to share the 
directory structure and move files to and from it over the internet. 

No web at all.

-- 
Stuart


On 30 Aug 2009 at 21:25, Eric Barro wrote:

> Didn't the original spec indicate that the CSV file would be dropped into a
> web location where the client machines could pick them up?
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan
> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 4:30 PM
> To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SPAM-LOW: Re: Access data across the internet
> 
> The only reason it "goes away" is because web services use the standard HTTP
> port 80 
> which is open by default on most routers.   That means there is no
> configuration needed on 
> the client machines.  
> 
> But you will still need "IT" to configure the router and set up port
> forwarding to point to the server hosting the web service.  Of course, this
> is not an issue where you set up a web service on a public web server, but
> that is not what you are trying to do - you want something hosted internally
> which can access your internal file systems and databases and interface in a
> controlled manner with other machines.
> 
> There's nothing to stop you from using the same port 80 for your own TCP/IP
> Listener application. 
> 
> You can also any of the other "standard" ports which are likely to be open
> on a router such as FTP (21), SMTP(25),  POP3(110) etc
> 
> I have a couple of such Listener applications which do the sort of things
> you are after, but they are written in PB/Win - if you want to look at them
> to get a better idea of oterh way you can do this, I will send the source to
> you off line.
> 
> 
> --
> Stuart
> 
> 
> 
> On 30 Aug 2009 at 18:18, jwcolby wrote:
> 
> > Thanks Stuart.
> > 
> > I believe one of the implications of the service route was that the whole
> TCP/IP address / port 
> > thing goes away, IOW it can get through a firewall without having to get
> the intervention of IT.
> > 
> > I am listening to all points of view.  Luckily I am in no hurry here, it
> will be six months or more 
> > before I need to solve this problem, or even have the requisite knowledge.
> > 
> > John W. Colby
> > www.ColbyConsulting.com
> > 
> > 
> > Stuart McLachlan wrote:
> > > WCF, SOAP, Web Services etc are necessary if you are exposing services
> to all and 
> > > sundry on the web.
> > > 
> > > There are far simpler ways to exchange data when you have control of
> both the client and 
> > > the server. These other methods do not require you to set up a web
> server and publish a 
> > > schema which then opens up your data to the whole world.  Take a look at
> a simple TCPIP 
> > > client/server solution first.  Here's a simple one in VB .Net 
> > > 
> > > http://www.eggheadcafe.com/articles/20020323.asp
> > > 
> > > This could be easily modified to do the sort of thing you are after,
> with the Listener 
> > > application doing most of the work.
> > > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > dba-VB mailing list
> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 




From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Mon Aug 31 04:57:19 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 13:57:19 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <4dd71a0c0908301447s1c1fc75cw1eac8e9761f2a50@mail.gmail.com>
References: <sa9b0a54.021@cactus.dk>
	<4dd71a0c0908301447s1c1fc75cw1eac8e9761f2a50@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <006801ca2a21$6ed969f0$4c8c3dd0$@spb.ru>

Hi Doug,

You can read about/investigate Amazon Web Services (AWS):

http://aws.amazon.com/

The fact is that many businesses are built using AWS, and the number of such
businesses is only growing day by day...

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 1:48 AM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
ubject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet

Hi Gustav (and Shamil)

I've been following this discussion with some interest.  My impression of
web services is that they are basically for publishing information (like a
parts catalogue) which could be read and used by clients.  I gather that
this is not the whole picture.

I've spent several hours on the web recently trying to get more information;
however I have yet to stumble on a site which gives a clear explanation
and/or some practical examples.  Do you have any good references?

Thanks,

Doug Steele

On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 2:24 PM, Gustav Brock <Gustav at cactus.dk> wrote:

> Hi John
>
> I'll have to second Shamil. When I joined an early presentation of Windows
> Communication Foundation it was the first time I began understanding what
> web services are about - all other info had been bits and pieces, some
> working but none with the big picture. WCF is so well thought out that you
> can say "this time MS got it right".
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4382 (20090830) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru


 

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From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Mon Aug 31 04:57:19 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 13:57:19 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] How to Consume a Web Service (Request for Help, not urgent)
Message-ID: <006901ca2a21$702c01a0$508404e0$@spb.ru>

Hi All,

 

I'd be very grateful if anybody could go through the following
sample/workthrough using VS2008 SP1

 

"How to Consume a Web Service"

http://johnwsaundersiii.spaces.live.com/?_c11_BlogPart_BlogPart=blogview&_c=
BlogPart&partqs=amonth%3d5%26ayear%3d2009

(watch line wraps)

 

and publish for download/send me privately the sources you'll get. I can't
get this sample working on my system (something is still wrong with my
system setup), and I wanted to compare your sources with the ones I'm
getting here to find out how to solve this "nightmarish" issue.

 

If all will work well it should take several minutes to make the sample
working on your system assuming you have VS2008 SP1 and Windows SDK
installed.

 

Please do not try to look for workarounds if the above sample will not work
out of the box as described - looking for such workaround can take hours and
hours  (and solution depends on your system (current) context/previous
setups I believe) - you'll risk to lose your working day.

 

Solution/workaround should be simple, effective and generic - I still can't
find it nor by myself nor by intensive Googling/Binging.

 

Thank you.

 

--

Shamil

 

 

 



From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Mon Aug 31 04:57:19 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 13:57:19 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] SPAM-LOW:  Re:  Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <4A9B016D.7000709@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <sa9b0a54.021@cactus.dk> <4A9B016D.7000709@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <006e01ca2a21$7177bb80$54673280$@spb.ru>

Hi John,

Still I'd advised you to start with SOAP services, which work out of the
box...

If you start with WCF Web Services I do hope/wish you were luckier than
hundreds (and hundreds) of folks "fighting" with infamous:

"WCF Service reference to IIS-hosted WCF nightmares"
http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/wcf/thread/0db19bc8-2bc4-4306-
a124-65b80849c0e3/ 

which doesn't have a common solution AFAIK. Have I missed it for VS2008 SP1?

The solution depends, I believe, on "proper" setup sequence of several
components of your system, BTW, don't forget to setup proper Windows SDK
(7.0), which is needed to develop WCF Web Services.

If the following sample/workthrough will work well for you out of the box

"How to Consume a Web Service"
http://johnwsaundersiii.spaces.live.com/?_c11_BlogPart_BlogPart=blogview&_c=
BlogPart&partqs=amonth%3d5%26ayear%3d2009

you'll be a lucky guy.

It doesn't yet work here on my development PC, and WCF per se works well - I
have programmed WCF-based inter-process communication programs, some other
WCF samples I have got ready to use also worked OK but creation from scratch
in VS2008 SP1 of very simple WCF web service (as in the referred above
sample) - it doesn't work here yet...

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 2:47 AM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SPAM-LOW: Re: Access data across the internet

OK, I have a couple of books on the way on WCF.  Looks like light reading!

;)

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi John
> 
> I'll have to second Shamil. When I joined an early presentation of Windows
Communication Foundation it was the first time I began understanding what
web services are about - all other info had been bits and pieces, some
working but none with the big picture. WCF is so well thought out that you
can say "this time MS got it right".
> 
> Also note, that the guy at the blog is not having an issue with WCF but
states that "I still need to get the WCF client to talk to this unusual
endpoint".
> Unfortunately, this is an example of how blogs can be a total waste of
time. This guy obviously knows what he talks about but - like Shamil - I
browsed the comments (before reading Shamil's message here on the same) only
to find them talking in East and West with no useful or educating info
except one - the same that Shamil has quoted previously.
> 
> For any other project than your current very simple one I would happily go
with WCF.
> 
> /gustav
> 
> 
>>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 30-08-2009 20:13 >>>
> Hi John,
> 
> OK.
> 
> <<<
> What I found daunting was the gobbledegook of terms and technologies being
> discussed.
> John, if I'd tell you - do not bother about this "gobbledegook" now would
> you accept my advice?
> I mean you do not need to know all that stuff until you'll really need it
-
> you can just start developing and releasing SOAP Web Services - it's not
> that complicated. 
> 
> I do share Ben Kloosterman's opinion: "The problem is not with WCF (or
Axis)
> (or SOAP) but with people who choose overly complicated scenarios"...
> 
> I called comments "junk" because most of them are not constructive, and
they
> do not help, even disturb beginner .NET developers to start developing and
> releasing Web Services - they disturb by creating wrong impression that
> developing Web Services using MS software is a very complicated task. And
it
> isn't.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> --
> Shamil
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 7:21 PM
> To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
> 
> Shamil,
> 
> I understand that only people who have problems write comments about the
problems they have.  I also 
> understand that if someone uses VS.Net to write both ends of the channel
then the probability of 
> problems drops dramatically.
> 
> I would not characterize such comments a "junk" however, I believe that
such problems are very real, 
> particularly when you are dealing with disparate technologies on either
end. The article itself was 
> found in the C# start page, and he was having problems using .Net to try
to talk to a service 
> created in some other technology (from the little I actually understood).
> 
> What I found daunting was the gobbledegook of terms and technologies being
discussed.  It certainly 
> appeared to me that the majority of these "junk" comments were .Net
developers trying to use .Net to 
> subscribe (if that is the correct phrase) to services that were created in
some other technology. 
> Who had to do so for business reasons, in their work.
> 
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com 
> 
> 
> Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote:
>> Hi John,
>>
>> I did read comments from the ref you quoted here - they are a usual
"junk"
> -
>> I mean real developers who use MS software do not waste time on writing
>> comments how bad this MS software is :) I can assure you (as many other
>> developers here) it's not that bad as you can find reading all that "junk
>> comments".
>>
>> BTW, I liked this comment, which I classify as very helpful, and coming
> from
>> experienced developer (as I also am BTW :)O:
>>
>> <<<<<<<<<<
>> Ben Kloosterman, 21 June 2009, 20:38:34 (Pacific Standard Time,
UTC-08:00)
>>
>> The problem is not with WCF (or Axis) but with people who choose overly
>> complicated scenarios. WCF is far superior to Axis though because
Services
>> framework allow things people use them. 
>>
>> eg 
>> - Security 95% of the time no transport security/encryption is
sufficient.
>> - Use custom headers dont fudge it like the article , this method is very
>> common .
>> - Use complicated types , inheritcance , interfaces , collections etc ..
>> KISS and use the DTO pattern. ( DOnt pollute your business domain with
the
>> need to tranport it)
>>
>> The big advantage REST has is you cant do the fancy things but everything
>> you can do with REST you can do with WCF and keep it or even more simple.

>>
>> Ben
>>
>> And BTW, my current proposal is to use SOAP (ASP.NET 2.0) Web Services
for
>> starters - they are easier to start with = you can create such Web
> Services
>> within VS2008. Later on you can convert them to WCF/REST web services -
>> you'll just need to change interface/fa?ade in most of the cases.
>>
>> And a sample Web Service I created here is exactly a SOAP web service:
>>
>> http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx 
>>
>> You can find comments on its interface in P.S. of this message. And you
> can
>> consume this web service using sample code I provided in my previous
>> postings within this thread. (All the C# code for this Web Service
> including
>> comments is about 270+ code lines long - and that's all you have to write
> -
>> no need to code manually .wsdl etc. )
>>
>> Some of my experience with Web Services:
>>
>> 1) One of my overseas customers (WA) did use web service running on my
>> hosting site (Moscow, Russia, and it runs within common application pool)
>> for several months. And this web service was queried dozen times within a
>> second from his programs running on 5+ computers from his LAN there.
> Result:
>> no any major trouble at all.
>>
>> 2) Another customer does use web service developed here to synchronize
>> two-way "field-force automation" local MS SQL Express databases with
> central
>> MS SQL database running behind large ASP.NET application. No problem.
>>
>> Etc.
>>
>> Recap: Stop reading "junk comments", start acting.
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> --
>> Shamil
> 
> 





From Gustav at cactus.dk  Mon Aug 31 07:05:23 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 14:05:23 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
Message-ID: <sa9bd8b7.033@cactus.dk>

Hi Stuart and John

Except that the main location could be placed in "the cloud":

http://www.jungledisk.com/desktop/how.aspx 

This service - which among other things mimics a drive letter - uses Amazon as the storage. 

The Amazon storage can, of course, be accessed directly, for example via the S3 service:

http://aws.amazon.com/s3/ 

Also: 
<quote>
LitS3 is a library written in C# that provides comprehensive and straightforward access to Amazon S3 for .NET developers. 
</quote>

http://code.google.com/p/lits3/ 

Fascinating tiny amount of code. Unfortunately I haven't had the time to play with even though we do have an Amazon account up and running.

/gustav


>>> "Stuart McLachlan" <stuart at lexacorp.com.pg> 31-08-2009 08:53 >>>
No,

As I read it, John's original scenario was several client locations processing files locally with  
a shared directory structure in the main location. He was looking at ways to share the 
directory structure and move files to and from it over the internet. 

No web at all.

-- 
Stuart


On 30 Aug 2009 at 21:25, Eric Barro wrote:

> Didn't the original spec indicate that the CSV file would be dropped into a
> web location where the client machines could pick them up?
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan
> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 4:30 PM
> To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SPAM-LOW: Re: Access data across the internet
> 
> The only reason it "goes away" is because web services use the standard HTTP port 80 
> which is open by default on most routers.   That means there is no configuration needed on 
> the client machines.  
> 
> But you will still need "IT" to configure the router and set up port
> forwarding to point to the server hosting the web service.  Of course, this
> is not an issue where you set up a web service on a public web server, but
> that is not what you are trying to do - you want something hosted internally
> which can access your internal file systems and databases and interface in a
> controlled manner with other machines.
> 
> There's nothing to stop you from using the same port 80 for your own TCP/IP
> Listener application. 
> 
> You can also any of the other "standard" ports which are likely to be open
> on a router such as FTP (21), SMTP(25),  POP3(110) etc
> 
> I have a couple of such Listener applications which do the sort of things
> you are after, but they are written in PB/Win - if you want to look at them
> to get a better idea of oterh way you can do this, I will send the source to
> you off line.
> 
> 
> --
> Stuart
> 
> 
> 
> On 30 Aug 2009 at 18:18, jwcolby wrote:
> 
> > Thanks Stuart.
> > 
> > I believe one of the implications of the service route was that the whole TCP/IP address / port 
> > thing goes away, IOW it can get through a firewall without having to get the intervention of IT.
> > 
> > I am listening to all points of view.  Luckily I am in no hurry here, it will be six months or more 
> > before I need to solve this problem, or even have the requisite knowledge.
> > 
> > John W. Colby
> > www.ColbyConsulting.com 




From Gustav at cactus.dk  Mon Aug 31 07:06:20 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 14:06:20 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
Message-ID: <sa9bd8f3.034@cactus.dk>

Hi Doug

If you ask for an example of a public service, an example is here - from the EU to provide validation of VAT registration of companies of the EU:

http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/vies/api/checkVatPort?wsdl

It is very simple as no user credentials are requested, thus it should work with most clients.

/gustav


>>> dbdoug at gmail.com 30-08-2009 23:47 >>>
Hi Gustav (and Shamil)

I've been following this discussion with some interest.  My impression of
web services is that they are basically for publishing information (like a
parts catalogue) which could be read and used by clients.  I gather that
this is not the whole picture.

I've spent several hours on the web recently trying to get more information;
however I have yet to stumble on a site which gives a clear explanation
and/or some practical examples.  Do you have any good references?

Thanks,

Doug Steele




From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Mon Aug 31 07:32:42 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 08:32:42 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] SPAM-LOW:  Re:  Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <83793773C208434D94153FDCDEAC4BB8@advancedinput.com>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>,
	<4A9AF65A.10563.18F51086@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>,
	<4A9AFABC.9000101@colbyconsulting.com>	<4A9B0B7A.29443.1947931F@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
	<83793773C208434D94153FDCDEAC4BB8@advancedinput.com>
Message-ID: <4A9BC2EA.5050005@colbyconsulting.com>

The system already exists and works.  What happens is that there are two scanners which are used to 
turn documents into tables using Omnipage.  Those CSV files are dropped into a well defined 
directory structure on a disk drive "somewhere".  ATM everything is done locally, inside of a 
network in a SOHO.

So right now... a user scans a document into Omnipage.  Inside of Omnipage she uses her mouse to 
surround (swipe) areas of the document that is data that is going into a table.  Omnipage then turns 
the swiped areas into a CSV file, which the user then stores to a specific location.  These are 
invoices which go into a state/program/subprogram kind of structure.

As soon as the document is on the hard disk as a csv, the application opens the CSV and loads it 
into a temp table which has a field1, field2, ... field12 format.  Each field maps to a named field 
in another table but at this level the field mapping is not done.

A processes occurs which attempts to fix OCR errors.  The scanner may decide that an l is a one or 
vice versa, a zero is an oh. Stuff like that.  So the user runs the process to fix OCR errors.  Once 
the OCR errors are fixed the application maps the field1 ... fields in the temp table into the 
correct fields in a destination table, and the user then looks at the data.  The end objective is to 
perform an analysis on an invoice looking for errors.  Big money involved, thousands or millions of 
dollars, and the invoices come from organizations who don't necessarily use high tech tools to 
generate the invoices, so lots of errors are found.

Once the analysis is done the application stores the data table back out to a specific location, in 
a fixed width US Government standard format.  Eventually the data is shipped back to the client.

This thing is dead simple for you and I as experienced developers.  A directory structure, an 
import, an OCR correction process, a set of mapping queries to move raw data to the invoice table. 
Once the user finishes the analysis, an export back out to a destination folder.

What is happening now is that the client wants to bring his daughters in as employees, but have them 
work from home.  He already has an employee in another state doing some "dispute resolution" work 
for him.  So he wants a central server in his home office where all the documents go.  His daughters 
will work on the application but need may need to access document CSV files that were scanned and 
are physically located in another state.  And of course dump the processed file back to a server in 
another state.

My solution to that need was to use Hamachi to set up a VPN network that everybody joins.  The 
server is on it, each remote user is on it.  The VPN network exposes a mapped directory, which is 
mapped to X:.  That X: now contains that directory structure where all files are stored.  So to the 
user, it appears that they have a local drive X: but that drive is actually a directory on a server 
several states away.

The application simply pulls the CSV files from the X: drive and writes the result files back to the 
X: drive.  The application already pulls documents from a mapped drive, now the drive just happens 
to map to a server in another state.  No change to the APP.

In order to test, I have already done this mapping the client's server as my X: drive, and also 
setting up a mapped folder on my server, remoting in and running the application where my shared 
drive is mapped to the X: drive on his system.  It definitely works.

The speed was not great (30 seconds for the biggest file) when working on files on the client's 
server, a PIII 500mhz 256m RAM Windows XP.

OTOH it was about 9 seconds when running the application on that remote server and pulling the data 
off of my server.

It was about 5 seconds running completely local on his end, so the trip over the internet "cost" 
about 4 seconds when talking to a modern server.

So we are discussing replacing a working application, a software VPN - Hamachi - and a mapped drive, 
with a web service that reads and writes files to a server.  The service would need to run on the 
server I assume, which means getting that server running IIS.  BTW the client purchased a new DELL 
box with XP installed to act as the server.  I would have to get IIS running, write the services to 
read and write files, and write something for the existing application to connect to the services to 
perform the reads and writes.  I assume that I would have to read the files to a local drive and 
then run the import as I do now (this is currently Access).  Write the files locally and then send 
them via the service back to the server.

Again, I am rewriting this application to C#.  In C# this whole thing might very well make sense, 
since I could just read the stream from the web service and place the results directly into a table. 
  Using the current Access App I would have to do some modifications to a working app to interface 
to the service.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Eric Barro wrote:
> Didn't the original spec indicate that the CSV file would be dropped into a
> web location where the client machines could pick them up?
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan
> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 4:30 PM
> To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SPAM-LOW: Re: Access data across the internet
> 
> The only reason it "goes away" is because web services use the standard HTTP
> port 80 
> which is open by default on most routers.   That means there is no
> configuration needed on 
> the client machines.  
> 
> But you will still need "IT" to configure the router and set up port
> forwarding to point to the server hosting the web service.  Of course, this
> is not an issue where you set up a web service on a public web server, but
> that is not what you are trying to do - you want something hosted internally
> which can access your internal file systems and databases and interface in a
> controlled manner with other machines.
> 
> There's nothing to stop you from using the same port 80 for your own TCP/IP
> Listener application. 
> 
> You can also any of the other "standard" ports which are likely to be open
> on a router such as FTP (21), SMTP(25),  POP3(110) etc
> 
> I have a couple of such Listener applications which do the sort of things
> you are after, but they are written in PB/Win - if you want to look at them
> to get a better idea of oterh way you can do this, I will send the source to
> you off line.
> 
> 
> --
> Stuart
> 
> 
> 
> On 30 Aug 2009 at 18:18, jwcolby wrote:
> 
>> Thanks Stuart.
>>
>> I believe one of the implications of the service route was that the whole
> TCP/IP address / port 
>> thing goes away, IOW it can get through a firewall without having to get
> the intervention of IT.
>> I am listening to all points of view.  Luckily I am in no hurry here, it
> will be six months or more 
>> before I need to solve this problem, or even have the requisite knowledge.
>>
>> John W. Colby
>> www.ColbyConsulting.com
>>
>>
>> Stuart McLachlan wrote:
>>> WCF, SOAP, Web Services etc are necessary if you are exposing services
> to all and 
>>> sundry on the web.
>>>
>>> There are far simpler ways to exchange data when you have control of
> both the client and 
>>> the server. These other methods do not require you to set up a web
> server and publish a 
>>> schema which then opens up your data to the whole world.  Take a look at
> a simple TCPIP 
>>> client/server solution first.  Here's a simple one in VB .Net 
>>>
>>> http://www.eggheadcafe.com/articles/20020323.asp
>>>
>>> This could be easily modified to do the sort of thing you are after,
> with the Listener 
>>> application doing most of the work.
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> dba-VB mailing list
>> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
>> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 


From Gustav at cactus.dk  Mon Aug 31 12:21:15 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 19:21:15 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet. Now: Look up EU	VAT
	No.
Message-ID: <sa9c22be.048@cactus.dk>

Hi Doug et al

I just tested this with the code referred to by Shamil:

"How to Consume a Web Service"

http://johnwsaundersiii.spaces.live.com/?_c11_BlogPart_BlogPart=blogview&_c=BlogPart&partqs=amonth%3d5%26ayear%3d2009

I created another service reference, ServiceEuViesCheckReference, and ran this code:

            using (var svc = new ServiceEuViesCheckReference.checkVatPortTypeClient())
            {
                string countryCode = "DK";
                string vatNumber = "12002696";
                bool valid = false;
                string name = String.Empty;
                string address = String.Empty;
                DateTime responseDate = svc.checkVat(
                    ref countryCode, ref vatNumber,
                    out valid, out name, out address);
                Console.WriteLine(responseDate.ToShortDateString());
                Console.WriteLine(valid.ToString());
                Console.WriteLine(name);
                Console.WriteLine(address);
                Console.Write("Press a key");
                Console.ReadLine();
            }

This returns correctly:

---
31-08-2009
True
CACTUS DATA APS
KALKBR?NDERIL?BSKAJ 4A

2100 K?BENHAVN ?
Press a key
---

This is fun!
Response time is about 1 second.

/gustav


>>> Gustav at cactus.dk 31-08-2009 14:06 >>>
Hi Doug

If you ask for an example of a public service, an example is here - from the EU to provide validation of VAT registration of companies of the EU:

http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/vies/api/checkVatPort?wsdl 

It is very simple as no user credentials are requested, thus it should work with most clients.

/gustav


>>> dbdoug at gmail.com 30-08-2009 23:47 >>>
Hi Gustav (and Shamil)

I've been following this discussion with some interest.  My impression of
web services is that they are basically for publishing information (like a
parts catalogue) which could be read and used by clients.  I gather that
this is not the whole picture.

I've spent several hours on the web recently trying to get more information;
however I have yet to stumble on a site which gives a clear explanation
and/or some practical examples.  Do you have any good references?

Thanks,

Doug Steele




From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Mon Aug 31 12:29:26 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 21:29:26 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] How to Consume a Web Service (Request for Help,
	not urgent)
In-Reply-To: <006901ca2a21$702c01a0$508404e0$@spb.ru>
References: <006901ca2a21$702c01a0$508404e0$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <00a301ca2a60$97e5b080$c7b11180$@spb.ru>

Hi All,

I have got a helping hand from Mike, Gustav and Doug who happened to be
"Lucky Guys" (thank you guys!) - they have referred below sample working
well "out of the box".

This sample solution (in Mike's interpretation) is posted here:

http://northwind.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=26600#D
ownloadId=81391  (~65KB)

It can be used as a test to see if your system is "WCF Web Services
Development Ready".

It has now WCF web service reference set OK (as this reference setting
happened on Mike's VS2008) but when I run it I'm getting runtime error:

"The communication object, System.ServiceModel.Channels.ServiceChannel,
cannot be used for communication because it is in the Faulted state."

I'm currently "digging further" trying to make this sample working on my
system - here is some information I'm looking through:

How to make sure you don't get WCF Faulted State Exception?
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/530731/how-to-make-sure-you-dont-get-wcf-
faulted-state-exception 

Avoiding Problems with the Using Statement
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa355056.aspx 

I will inform you on my further progress (if any).

Thank you for your help.

--
Shamil

P.S. I haven't been "fighting" with this issue all the working day through,
I was already in swimming pool with my kid etc. - yet this issue is one of
the representative cases what make software development so "heavy" sometimes
- the best/quickest solutions for such issues seems to be clean reinstalls
of the systems, and having just latest release versions of MS software on
that systems: still have to find time/resources to prepare something like
that - this current case could be the "last drop"...


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil
Salakhetdinov
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 1:57 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: [dba-VB] How to Consume a Web Service (Request for Help, not
urgent)

Hi All,

 

I'd be very grateful if anybody could go through the following
sample/workthrough using VS2008 SP1

 

"How to Consume a Web Service"

http://johnwsaundersiii.spaces.live.com/?_c11_BlogPart_BlogPart=blogview&_c=
BlogPart&partqs=amonth%3d5%26ayear%3d2009

(watch line wraps)

 

and publish for download/send me privately the sources you'll get. I can't
get this sample working on my system (something is still wrong with my
system setup), and I wanted to compare your sources with the ones I'm
getting here to find out how to solve this "nightmarish" issue.

 

If all will work well it should take several minutes to make the sample
working on your system assuming you have VS2008 SP1 and Windows SDK
installed.

 

Please do not try to look for workarounds if the above sample will not work
out of the box as described - looking for such workaround can take hours and
hours  (and solution depends on your system (current) context/previous
setups I believe) - you'll risk to lose your working day.

 

Solution/workaround should be simple, effective and generic - I still can't
find it nor by myself nor by intensive Googling/Binging.

 

Thank you.

 

--

Shamil

 

 

 

_______________________________________________
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From dbdoug at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 12:40:47 2009
From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 10:40:47 -0700
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet. Now: Look up EU VAT
	No.
In-Reply-To: <sa9c22be.048@cactus.dk>
References: <sa9c22be.048@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <4dd71a0c0908311040v43addfc1v87423638d5e799e3@mail.gmail.com>

That's too easy!  Takes about a second here (west coast of Canada).

Doug

On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 10:21 AM, Gustav Brock <Gustav at cactus.dk> wrote:

> Hi Doug et al
>
> I created another service reference, ServiceEuViesCheckReference, and ran
> this code:
>
>            using (var svc = new
> ServiceEuViesCheckReference.checkVatPortTypeClient())
>            {
>                string countryCode = "DK";
>                string vatNumber = "12002696";
>                bool valid = false;
>                string name = String.Empty;
>                string address = String.Empty;
>                DateTime responseDate = svc.checkVat(
>                    ref countryCode, ref vatNumber,
>                    out valid, out name, out address);
>                Console.WriteLine(responseDate.ToShortDateString());
>                Console.WriteLine(valid.ToString());
>                Console.WriteLine(name);
>                Console.WriteLine(address);
>                Console.Write("Press a key");
>                Console.ReadLine();
>            }
>
> This returns correctly:
>
> ---
> 31-08-2009
> True
> CACTUS DATA APS
> KALKBR?NDERIL?BSKAJ 4A
>
> 2100 K?BENHAVN ?
> Press a key
> ---
>
> This is fun!
> Response time is about 1 second.
>
>


From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Mon Aug 31 12:54:23 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 21:54:23 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet. Now: Look up EU
	VAT	No.
In-Reply-To: <4dd71a0c0908311040v43addfc1v87423638d5e799e3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <sa9c22be.048@cactus.dk>
	<4dd71a0c0908311040v43addfc1v87423638d5e799e3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00a901ca2a64$142e3830$3c8aa890$@spb.ru>

<<<
That's too easy!  
>>>
Yes, C# (VB.NET) development is usually a way easier than VB6/VBA - I mean
that! :)
Of course one need some time to get on speed with .NET Framework, C# and/or
VB.NET...

Well, it may happen you'll get some cases as with WCF Web Services and my
system but if you compare how much such cases did you have with
VB6/VBA/"DLL-Hell" then you'll definitely love .NET Framework/C#/VB.NET
development...

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 9:41 PM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet. Now: Look up EU VAT
No.

That's too easy!  Takes about a second here (west coast of Canada).

Doug

On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 10:21 AM, Gustav Brock <Gustav at cactus.dk> wrote:

> Hi Doug et al
>
> I created another service reference, ServiceEuViesCheckReference, and ran
> this code:
>
>            using (var svc = new
> ServiceEuViesCheckReference.checkVatPortTypeClient())
>            {
>                string countryCode = "DK";
>                string vatNumber = "12002696";
>                bool valid = false;
>                string name = String.Empty;
>                string address = String.Empty;
>                DateTime responseDate = svc.checkVat(
>                    ref countryCode, ref vatNumber,
>                    out valid, out name, out address);
>                Console.WriteLine(responseDate.ToShortDateString());
>                Console.WriteLine(valid.ToString());
>                Console.WriteLine(name);
>                Console.WriteLine(address);
>                Console.Write("Press a key");
>                Console.ReadLine();
>            }
>
> This returns correctly:
>
> ---
> 31-08-2009
> True
> CACTUS DATA APS
> KALKBR?NDERIL?BSKAJ 4A
>
> 2100 K?BENHAVN ?
> Press a key
> ---
>
> This is fun!
> Response time is about 1 second.
>
>
_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


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database 4384 (20090831) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru


 

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database 4384 (20090831) __________

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http://www.esetnod32.ru
 




From DWUTKA at Marlow.com  Mon Aug 31 14:55:53 2009
From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 14:55:53 -0500
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <4A9ACA3D.3040206@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <A5615CBECEC42E4791D7A7C724E1E9B202447AFA@MIEXCH.Marlow.ii-vi.net>

Hey JC, just going to chime in a bit.  I've developed both web based
apps, and apps that use a VPN connection.

There are advantages to both.  One of the primary advantages of a web
interface, however, is that you are centralizing your processing.  And
you are only sending 'snapshots' of your interface back and forth.

If what you have built works fine over a standard web connection and a
VPN, I'd keep it the way you have it.  If it gets sluggish, then a web
interface would probably speed things up quite a bit.

Drew

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 1:52 PM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet

Shamil,

I understand and mostly agree with your opinions.  Of course I will
accept your advice, start small, 
and not worry about the gobbledygook..

 > I do share Ben Kloosterman's opinion: "The problem is not with WCF
(or Axis) (or SOAP) but with 
people who choose overly complicated scenarios"...

I have to smile because you are recommending soap web services, to
someone just coming up to speed 
on C# (taking a beginners class!) to replace a dead simple to implement
software VPN and a shared 
directory!

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com

The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity 
to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business 
Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender 
immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. 
You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, 
or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons 
or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited.




From DWUTKA at Marlow.com  Mon Aug 31 17:13:52 2009
From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 17:13:52 -0500
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <4dd71a0c0908301447s1c1fc75cw1eac8e9761f2a50@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A5615CBECEC42E4791D7A7C724E1E9B202447AFF@MIEXCH.Marlow.ii-vi.net>

Not the whole picture at all.  

I've always recommended classic asp, to learn some of the ins and outs
of web programming.  There really are three types of web programming.  

Server side (asp, asp.net (sort of), php, etc.).  Server side code is
the guts of your system.  This is where all of your business logic would
be, and this also determines what the end user sees.

Client Side (javascript, java, VBScript, ASP.Net etc).  Client side
scripting is code that will manipulate the page the user has received,
from their computer (so 'disconnected' from the system).  The exception
is ASP.Net.  ASP.Net combines server side and client side with a mix of
code, (automated by ASP.Net).  An example would be a button click.  In a
VBA situation, you can write code behind the OnClick event of a button,
and have that code do whatever you want.  In classic asp, it can
'create' the button, even create client side code, but the asp code
itself is unaware of when the button is pressed.  With ASP.Net, you get
an OnClick event, so it looks like it's something that runs on the
server, but the reality is that ASP.Net is using client side code to
interact with the server.

Formatting code (HTML, Flash, etc.).  How your web page looks is going
to be based on the code used to display your system in a browser.  HTML
is it's own beast, but really not too difficult to get the hang of.

I recommend playing around with classic ASP and HTML, and stay away from
client side scripting initially.  You can build very complex (and well
running) systems with just those two.  ASP.Net and/or the addition of
client side scripting can make certain things easier for the user (but a
little more difficult on the complexity of the code (client side
scripting is notorious for being picky about browsers).

ASP.Net is a VERY powerful tool, but it uses an internally constructed
Client/server scripting combination.  Which gives you TONS of abilities
because of this, but it also comes with a lot of consequences. 

To learn ASP classic, it's just five root objects, with VBScripting.

Drew



-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 4:48 PM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet

Hi Gustav (and Shamil)

I've been following this discussion with some interest.  My impression
of
web services is that they are basically for publishing information (like
a
parts catalogue) which could be read and used by clients.  I gather that
this is not the whole picture.

I've spent several hours on the web recently trying to get more
information;
however I have yet to stumble on a site which gives a clear explanation
and/or some practical examples.  Do you have any good references?

Thanks,

Doug Steele

On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 2:24 PM, Gustav Brock <Gustav at cactus.dk> wrote:

> Hi John
>
> I'll have to second Shamil. When I joined an early presentation of
Windows
> Communication Foundation it was the first time I began understanding
what
> web services are about - all other info had been bits and pieces, some
> working but none with the big picture. WCF is so well thought out that
you
> can say "this time MS got it right".
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com

The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity 
to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business 
Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender 
immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. 
You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, 
or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons 
or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited.




From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Mon Aug 31 17:28:49 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 02:28:49 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] How to Consume a Web Service (Request for Help,
	not urgent)
In-Reply-To: <00a301ca2a60$97e5b080$c7b11180$@spb.ru>
References: <006901ca2a21$702c01a0$508404e0$@spb.ru>
	<00a301ca2a60$97e5b080$c7b11180$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <00c601ca2a8a$6c0c7690$442563b0$@spb.ru>

Hi All,

I have finally got the following runtime error messages:

<<<
Unable to connect to the remote server
Could not connect to http://localhost:59057/Service1.svc. 
TCP error code 10061:
No connection could be made because the target machine actively refused it 
127.0.0.1:59057.
>>>

And I'm not working with any remote servers here - this is just one system
I'm testing on/working with.

I have tried to suppress firewall completely, I have tried to open 59057
port - no luck...

The issue (they tell somewhere) could be also that this machine has several
NICs - usual cable and wireless etc.

Googling/Binging didn't give any clues to solve the issue effectively.

I'm leaving it for now for the "better times"...

I have "Pro WCF, Practical Microsoft SOA Implementation" book - I should
probably read it very carefully through to understand every bit in WCF
configuration and functioning... (BTW, I didn't need to read any books and
almost no any docs to implement several SOAP (.asmx) ASP.NET Web Services,
which work successfully in production for several years, and they work well
on this my system I'm currently "struggling with very basic WCF Web Service"
- it could be a bad day here also today...)

Still I think that modern MS technologies are great and easy to use :)

Thank you for your help.

--
Shamil


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil
Salakhetdinov
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 9:29 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] How to Consume a Web Service (Request for Help, not
urgent)

Hi All,

I have got a helping hand from Mike, Gustav and Doug who happened to be
"Lucky Guys" (thank you guys!) - they have referred below sample working
well "out of the box".

This sample solution (in Mike's interpretation) is posted here:

http://northwind.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=26600#D
ownloadId=81391  (~65KB)

It can be used as a test to see if your system is "WCF Web Services
Development Ready".

It has now WCF web service reference set OK (as this reference setting
happened on Mike's VS2008) but when I run it I'm getting runtime error:

"The communication object, System.ServiceModel.Channels.ServiceChannel,
cannot be used for communication because it is in the Faulted state."

I'm currently "digging further" trying to make this sample working on my
system - here is some information I'm looking through:

How to make sure you don't get WCF Faulted State Exception?
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/530731/how-to-make-sure-you-dont-get-wcf-
faulted-state-exception 

Avoiding Problems with the Using Statement
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa355056.aspx 

I will inform you on my further progress (if any).

Thank you for your help.

--
Shamil

P.S. I haven't been "fighting" with this issue all the working day through,
I was already in swimming pool with my kid etc. - yet this issue is one of
the representative cases what make software development so "heavy" sometimes
- the best/quickest solutions for such issues seems to be clean reinstalls
of the systems, and having just latest release versions of MS software on
that systems: still have to find time/resources to prepare something like
that - this current case could be the "last drop"...


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil
Salakhetdinov
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 1:57 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: [dba-VB] How to Consume a Web Service (Request for Help, not
urgent)

Hi All,

 

I'd be very grateful if anybody could go through the following
sample/workthrough using VS2008 SP1

 

"How to Consume a Web Service"

http://johnwsaundersiii.spaces.live.com/?_c11_BlogPart_BlogPart=blogview&_c=
BlogPart&partqs=amonth%3d5%26ayear%3d2009

(watch line wraps)

 

and publish for download/send me privately the sources you'll get. I can't
get this sample working on my system (something is still wrong with my
system setup), and I wanted to compare your sources with the ones I'm
getting here to find out how to solve this "nightmarish" issue.

 

If all will work well it should take several minutes to make the sample
working on your system assuming you have VS2008 SP1 and Windows SDK
installed.

 

Please do not try to look for workarounds if the above sample will not work
out of the box as described - looking for such workaround can take hours and
hours  (and solution depends on your system (current) context/previous
setups I believe) - you'll risk to lose your working day.

 

Solution/workaround should be simple, effective and generic - I still can't
find it nor by myself nor by intensive Googling/Binging.

 

Thank you.

 

--

Shamil

 

 


 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4385 (20090831) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 



From fhtapia at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 16:41:02 2009
From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 14:41:02 -0700
Subject: [dba-VB] QueryStringParameter error
In-Reply-To: <07C21F79042A4BDD98A27EF049A0B312@advancedinput.com>
References: <b874372a0907292138i26f1e15cqe798a75e0282ccbe@mail.gmail.com>
	<07C21F79042A4BDD98A27EF049A0B312@advancedinput.com>
Message-ID: <b874372a0908051441s29a8f7f7ja7a962f0fdc7fb46@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry for the late reply I had to shelf the project for a few days as I had
other things going... I am the DBA at my company and also do work on our new
SAP BI system (just learning that system) but I do get involved in server
maintenance and any other project that somehow ends up at my feet because
it's cool, fun or needs to be done :| it's just the way it is :)

but to get back to the problem, what I did was to create a surrogate PKID on
this table for languages named pkid and auto numbered, and the technique I
posted of earlier, now works :), so that bridge is now crossed.

I will say this, the Access version of this app was completed the same day
and within about 1hr of this long long asp.net project that has gone on for
weeks :(.



-Francisco
http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More...


On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 9:48 PM, Eric Barro <ebarro at verizon.net> wrote:

>  Francico,
>
> I haven't really worked with the syntax you show below but I've seen a
> buddy
> of mine use it as well. Try and put Response.Write(intLanguage) in your
> code
> to debug and see if it is passing the value.
>
> Eric
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco Tapia
> Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 9:39 PM
> To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
> Subject: [dba-VB] QueryStringParameter error
>
> Hi,
>  I've not been active on this list at all, but I do have a quick question
> someone here may have already ran into.  I am working on an ASP.NET(visual
> studio 2008) and I created a few pages that all work fairly similarly,
> where
> there is a GridView on the main Entity page, and Add pages along with Edit
> pages created with Details View controls.  In the GridView page, I add an
> edit button and the link points the
> ~/language/EditLanguage.aspx?intLanguage={0}.  On the receiving page I
> edited the SELECT command with the proper WHERE clause as WHERE
> intLanguage=
> @intLanguage.  The QueryStringParameter is as follows:
> <SelectParameters>
>            <asp:QueryStringParameter Name="intLanguage"
> QueryStringField="intLanguage" />
>        </SelectParameters>
>
> so this is the same for my other pages such as my Release page and my
> Category page and both work fine, but the language page is different... the
> PKID is the intLanguage field, but it's not an autoincremented number
> (since
> this project is still in it's infancy, I've thought about adding a true
> surrogate PKID and see if that is the problem...
>
> note, If i edit the select command w/o the where, the page loads fine (well
> w/o the parameter being passed so my DetailsView control only displays the
> first record in the recordset, I'm new to ASP.NET and don't really know
> how
> to troubleshoot this.... any ideas?
>
> -Francisco
> http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More...
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>


From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Fri Aug  7 05:43:37 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 14:43:37 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] "Google Maps Navigator" Sample MS Access Application
Message-ID: <005301ca174b$ecbdd3d0$c6397b70$@spb.ru>

Hi All,

 

Have you ever tried to work with Google Maps in MS Access application via MS
Web Browser control?

To do some simple navigation you can use URLs like the following:

 

Finland

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo
<http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=65,27&spn=5,5>
&mode=preview&ll=65,27&spn=5,5 

 

Using this approach I have made a simple sample application, which
screenshot you can see here:

 

http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/temp/GoogleMapsNavigator.jpg

 

My question is: Do you know what format of URLs to use to show just a map?

 

I know there exist the Google Maps API
(http://code.google.com/intl/en-EN/apis/maps/) for advanced usage of Google
Maps via JavaScript but I wanted to try to bypass usage of that API this
time.

 

For the ones interested to experiment via simple Google Maps navigation
approach I have posted MS Access sample application here:

 

http://northwind.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=26600 

 

You can download it using the following URL(watch line wraps):

http://northwind.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=26600#D
ownloadId=78352  (175KB)

 

Our Northwind.CodePlex.com team could use the above approach + Google Maps
API in .NET sample application.

 

More advanced question is: Is there any way to react in MS Access hosting
form's VBA code to the changes done in Google Maps map, e.g. Zoom-in/out,
Move of map .? I mean when Zoon-in/out happens there should be AJAX (Google
Maps API) calls to the Google server - are there any web browser events,
corresponding to that API calls?(I know Browser navigation can be trapped
via web browser events but this isn't the question.) 

 

Thank you.

 

--

Shamil

 

P.S. Some more sample URLs:

 

Finland

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=65,27&spn=5,5

 

UK

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=55,-3&spn=6,6

 

Mexico

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=23,-102&spn=10,10

 

Italy

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=41,12&spn=5,5

 

Australia

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=-25,133&spn=20,20

 

Japan

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=36,138&spn=5,5

 

Madagascar

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=-18,46&spn=10,16



From mmattys at rochester.rr.com  Fri Aug  7 07:49:04 2009
From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 08:49:04 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] "Google Maps Navigator" Sample MS Access Application
References: <005301ca174b$ecbdd3d0$c6397b70$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <9EF9E3348B99401E91E492472CCF227F@Mattys>

Hi Shamil,

I'll take a look - this is of interest to me.

-
Michael R Mattys
MapPoint and Database Dev
www.mattysconsulting.com
-
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Shamil Salakhetdinov" <shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru>
To: "'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'" 
<dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 6:43 AM
Subject: [dba-VB] "Google Maps Navigator" Sample MS Access Application


> Hi All,
>
>
>
> Have you ever tried to work with Google Maps in MS Access application via 
> MS
> Web Browser control?
>
> To do some simple navigation you can use URLs like the following:
>
>
>
> Finland
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo
> <http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=65,27&spn=5,5>
> &mode=preview&ll=65,27&spn=5,5
>
>
>
> Using this approach I have made a simple sample application, which
> screenshot you can see here:
>
>
>
> http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/temp/GoogleMapsNavigator.jpg
>
>
>
> My question is: Do you know what format of URLs to use to show just a map?
>
>
>
> I know there exist the Google Maps API
> (http://code.google.com/intl/en-EN/apis/maps/) for advanced usage of 
> Google
> Maps via JavaScript but I wanted to try to bypass usage of that API this
> time.
>
>
>
> For the ones interested to experiment via simple Google Maps navigation
> approach I have posted MS Access sample application here:
>
>
>
> http://northwind.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=26600
>
>
>
> You can download it using the following URL(watch line wraps):
>
> http://northwind.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=26600#D
> ownloadId=78352  (175KB)
>
>
>
> Our Northwind.CodePlex.com team could use the above approach + Google Maps
> API in .NET sample application.
>
>
>
> More advanced question is: Is there any way to react in MS Access hosting
> form's VBA code to the changes done in Google Maps map, e.g. Zoom-in/out,
> Move of map .? I mean when Zoon-in/out happens there should be AJAX 
> (Google
> Maps API) calls to the Google server - are there any web browser events,
> corresponding to that API calls?(I know Browser navigation can be trapped
> via web browser events but this isn't the question.)
>
>
>
> Thank you.
>
>
>
> --
>
> Shamil
>
>
>
> P.S. Some more sample URLs:
>
>
>
> Finland
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=65,27&spn=5,5
>
>
>
> UK
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=55,-3&spn=6,6
>
>
>
> Mexico
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=23,-102&spn=10,10
>
>
>
> Italy
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=41,12&spn=5,5
>
>
>
> Australia
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=-25,133&spn=20,20
>
>
>
> Japan
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=36,138&spn=5,5
>
>
>
> Madagascar
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=-18,46&spn=10,16
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 



From max.wanadoo at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 11:21:04 2009
From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 17:21:04 +0100
Subject: [dba-VB] "Google Maps Navigator" Sample MS Access Application
In-Reply-To: <005301ca174b$ecbdd3d0$c6397b70$@spb.ru>
References: <005301ca174b$ecbdd3d0$c6397b70$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <4a7c54b1.0a04d00a.07ea.2b62@mx.google.com>

Shamil, I *think* Google provides a lot of APIs for this sort of stuff.

Max


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil
Salakhetdinov
Sent: 07 August 2009 11:44
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: [dba-VB] "Google Maps Navigator" Sample MS Access Application

Hi All,

 

Have you ever tried to work with Google Maps in MS Access application via MS
Web Browser control?

To do some simple navigation you can use URLs like the following:

 

Finland

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo
<http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=65,27&spn=5,5>
&mode=preview&ll=65,27&spn=5,5 

 

Using this approach I have made a simple sample application, which
screenshot you can see here:

 

http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/temp/GoogleMapsNavigator.jpg

 

My question is: Do you know what format of URLs to use to show just a map?

 

I know there exist the Google Maps API
(http://code.google.com/intl/en-EN/apis/maps/) for advanced usage of Google
Maps via JavaScript but I wanted to try to bypass usage of that API this
time.

 

For the ones interested to experiment via simple Google Maps navigation
approach I have posted MS Access sample application here:

 

http://northwind.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=26600 

 

You can download it using the following URL(watch line wraps):

http://northwind.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=26600#D
ownloadId=78352  (175KB)

 

Our Northwind.CodePlex.com team could use the above approach + Google Maps
API in .NET sample application.

 

More advanced question is: Is there any way to react in MS Access hosting
form's VBA code to the changes done in Google Maps map, e.g. Zoom-in/out,
Move of map .? I mean when Zoon-in/out happens there should be AJAX (Google
Maps API) calls to the Google server - are there any web browser events,
corresponding to that API calls?(I know Browser navigation can be trapped
via web browser events but this isn't the question.) 

 

Thank you.

 

--

Shamil

 

P.S. Some more sample URLs:

 

Finland

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=65,27&spn=5,5

 

UK

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=55,-3&spn=6,6

 

Mexico

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=23,-102&spn=10,10

 

Italy

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=41,12&spn=5,5

 

Australia

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=-25,133&spn=20,20

 

Japan

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=36,138&spn=5,5

 

Madagascar

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=-18,46&spn=10,16

_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From mmattys at rochester.rr.com  Fri Aug  7 11:43:13 2009
From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 12:43:13 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] "Google Maps Navigator" Sample MS Access Application
References: <005301ca174b$ecbdd3d0$c6397b70$@spb.ru>
	<4a7c54b1.0a04d00a.07ea.2b62@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <78954CFB9B7E441FA0B6ED708815CE40@Mattys>

Hi Max,

Imagine if you could do all of it in Access, though.
Seems like AJAX could be duplicated through VBA or WSH,
which are client-side, instead of Javascript and XMLHTTPRequest
-
Michael R Mattys
MapPoint and Database Dev
www.mattysconsulting.com
-

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Max Wanadoo" <max.wanadoo at gmail.com>
To: "'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'" 
<dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 12:21 PM
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] "Google Maps Navigator" Sample MS Access Application


> Shamil, I *think* Google provides a lot of APIs for this sort of stuff.
>
> Max
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil
> Salakhetdinov
> Sent: 07 August 2009 11:44
> To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
> Subject: [dba-VB] "Google Maps Navigator" Sample MS Access Application
>
> Hi All,
>
>
>
> Have you ever tried to work with Google Maps in MS Access application via 
> MS
> Web Browser control?
>
> To do some simple navigation you can use URLs like the following:
>
>
>
> Finland
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo
> <http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=65,27&spn=5,5>
> &mode=preview&ll=65,27&spn=5,5
>
>
>
> Using this approach I have made a simple sample application, which
> screenshot you can see here:
>
>
>
> http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/temp/GoogleMapsNavigator.jpg
>
>
>
> My question is: Do you know what format of URLs to use to show just a map?
>
>
>
> I know there exist the Google Maps API
> (http://code.google.com/intl/en-EN/apis/maps/) for advanced usage of 
> Google
> Maps via JavaScript but I wanted to try to bypass usage of that API this
> time.
>
>
>
> For the ones interested to experiment via simple Google Maps navigation
> approach I have posted MS Access sample application here:
>
>
>
> http://northwind.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=26600
>
>
>
> You can download it using the following URL(watch line wraps):
>
> http://northwind.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=26600#D
> ownloadId=78352  (175KB)
>
>
>
> Our Northwind.CodePlex.com team could use the above approach + Google Maps
> API in .NET sample application.
>
>
>
> More advanced question is: Is there any way to react in MS Access hosting
> form's VBA code to the changes done in Google Maps map, e.g. Zoom-in/out,
> Move of map .? I mean when Zoon-in/out happens there should be AJAX 
> (Google
> Maps API) calls to the Google server - are there any web browser events,
> corresponding to that API calls?(I know Browser navigation can be trapped
> via web browser events but this isn't the question.)
>
>
>
> Thank you.
>
>
>
> --
>
> Shamil
>
>
>
> P.S. Some more sample URLs:
>
>
>
> Finland
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=65,27&spn=5,5
>
>
>
> UK
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=55,-3&spn=6,6
>
>
>
> Mexico
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=23,-102&spn=10,10
>
>
>
> Italy
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=41,12&spn=5,5
>
>
>
> Australia
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=-25,133&spn=20,20
>
>
>
> Japan
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=36,138&spn=5,5
>
>
>
> Madagascar
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=-18,46&spn=10,16
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 



From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Fri Aug  7 13:31:39 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 22:31:39 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] "Google Maps Navigator" Sample MS Access Application
In-Reply-To: <78954CFB9B7E441FA0B6ED708815CE40@Mattys>
References: <005301ca174b$ecbdd3d0$c6397b70$@spb.ru>	<4a7c54b1.0a04d00a.07ea.2b62@mx.google.com>
	<78954CFB9B7E441FA0B6ED708815CE40@Mattys>
Message-ID: <006d01ca178d$4f9569a0$eec03ce0$@spb.ru>

Hi Mike and Max,

Thank you for your feedback.

Not sure yet here what(how) I wanted to solve my task, which should behave
something like this sample:

http://graargh.returnstrue.com/rajdeep/maps/tools/latlong_tool/v7/lat-long-t
ool_v7.html

but with "clicked" location information "feeded back" to MS Access host
form's VBA code and then stored to MS Access database as well as MS Access
form "setting the scene" (current map) and "drawing bubbles" on that map for
selected on MS Access form's controls locations, and presenting information
on what property/geoobject is situated "under the bubble" ....

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mike Mattys
Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 8:43 PM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] "Google Maps Navigator" Sample MS Access Application

Hi Max,

Imagine if you could do all of it in Access, though.
Seems like AJAX could be duplicated through VBA or WSH,
which are client-side, instead of Javascript and XMLHTTPRequest
-
Michael R Mattys
MapPoint and Database Dev
www.mattysconsulting.com
-

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Max Wanadoo" <max.wanadoo at gmail.com>
To: "'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'" 
<dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 12:21 PM
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] "Google Maps Navigator" Sample MS Access Application


> Shamil, I *think* Google provides a lot of APIs for this sort of stuff.
>
> Max
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil
> Salakhetdinov
> Sent: 07 August 2009 11:44
> To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
> Subject: [dba-VB] "Google Maps Navigator" Sample MS Access Application
>
> Hi All,
>
>
>
> Have you ever tried to work with Google Maps in MS Access application via 
> MS
> Web Browser control?
>
> To do some simple navigation you can use URLs like the following:
>
>
>
> Finland
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo
> <http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=65,27&spn=5,5>
> &mode=preview&ll=65,27&spn=5,5
>
>
>
> Using this approach I have made a simple sample application, which
> screenshot you can see here:
>
>
>
> http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/temp/GoogleMapsNavigator.jpg
>
>
>
> My question is: Do you know what format of URLs to use to show just a map?
>
>
>
> I know there exist the Google Maps API
> (http://code.google.com/intl/en-EN/apis/maps/) for advanced usage of 
> Google
> Maps via JavaScript but I wanted to try to bypass usage of that API this
> time.
>
>
>
> For the ones interested to experiment via simple Google Maps navigation
> approach I have posted MS Access sample application here:
>
>
>
> http://northwind.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=26600
>
>
>
> You can download it using the following URL(watch line wraps):
>
>
http://northwind.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=26600#D
> ownloadId=78352  (175KB)
>
>
>
> Our Northwind.CodePlex.com team could use the above approach + Google Maps
> API in .NET sample application.
>
>
>
> More advanced question is: Is there any way to react in MS Access hosting
> form's VBA code to the changes done in Google Maps map, e.g. Zoom-in/out,
> Move of map .? I mean when Zoon-in/out happens there should be AJAX 
> (Google
> Maps API) calls to the Google server - are there any web browser events,
> corresponding to that API calls?(I know Browser navigation can be trapped
> via web browser events but this isn't the question.)
>
>
>
> Thank you.
>
>
>
> --
>
> Shamil
>
>
>
> P.S. Some more sample URLs:
>
>
>
> Finland
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=65,27&spn=5,5
>
>
>
> UK
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=55,-3&spn=6,6
>
>
>
> Mexico
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=23,-102&spn=10,10
>
>
>
> Italy
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=41,12&spn=5,5
>
>
>
> Australia
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=-25,133&spn=20,20
>
>
>
> Japan
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=36,138&spn=5,5
>
>
>
> Madagascar
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=-18,46&spn=10,16
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 

_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4315 (20090807) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru





From max.wanadoo at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 15:26:13 2009
From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 21:26:13 +0100
Subject: [dba-VB] "Google Maps Navigator" Sample MS Access Application
In-Reply-To: <006d01ca178d$4f9569a0$eec03ce0$@spb.ru>
References: <005301ca174b$ecbdd3d0$c6397b70$@spb.ru>	<4a7c54b1.0a04d00a.07ea.2b62@mx.google.com>	<78954CFB9B7E441FA0B6ED708815CE40@Mattys>
	<006d01ca178d$4f9569a0$eec03ce0$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <4a7c8dfb.0707d00a.26a7.4dd6@mx.google.com>

Some Links: (Wraps??)

http://www.google.co.uk/enterprise/maps/#utm_campaign=en&utm_source=en-ha-em
ea-gb-sk_devs&utm_medium=ha&utm_term=google%20maps%20api


http://code.google.com/apis/maps/index.html

http://code.google.com/apis/maps/documentation/examples/

Some code:

function initialize() {
  if (GBrowserIsCompatible()) {
    var map = new GMap2(document.getElementById("map_canvas"));
    map.setCenter(new GLatLng(37.4419, -122.1419), 13);
  }
}



Max




From Gustav at cactus.dk  Fri Aug  7 17:02:32 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 00:02:32 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] "Google Maps Navigator" Sample MS Access	Application
Message-ID: <sa7cc0a7.011@cactus.dk>

Hi Shamil

I'm not familiar with the MS Web Browser control but in .Net I have used this URL to display just the map:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=da&geocode=&q=kalkbr%C3%A6nderil%C3%B8bskaj+4+a,+denmark&sll=46.377254,-86.484375&sspn=28.638122,54.84375&ie=UTF8&t=p&s=AARTsJo6QIZIUSLZJjht_Zf2KrLNZ8c1xw&ll=55.720439,12.595997&spn=0.01692,0.036478&z=14&iwloc=addr&output=embed

Maybe you can decode its parts for your purpose.

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 07-08-2009 12:43 >>>
Hi All,

Have you ever tried to work with Google Maps in MS Access application via MS
Web Browser control?

To do some simple navigation you can use URLs like the following:

Finland

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=65,27&spn=5,5 

Using this approach I have made a simple sample application, which
screenshot you can see here:

http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/temp/GoogleMapsNavigator.jpg 

My question is: Do you know what format of URLs to use to show just a map?

I know there exist the Google Maps API
(http://code.google.com/intl/en-EN/apis/maps/) for advanced usage of Google
Maps via JavaScript but I wanted to try to bypass usage of that API this
time.

For the ones interested to experiment via simple Google Maps navigation
approach I have posted MS Access sample application here:

http://northwind.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=26600 

You can download it using the following URL(watch line wraps):

http://northwind.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=26600#DownloadId=78352  (175KB)

Our Northwind.CodePlex.com team could use the above approach + Google Maps
API in .NET sample application.

More advanced question is: Is there any way to react in MS Access hosting
form's VBA code to the changes done in Google Maps map, e.g. Zoom-in/out,
Move of map .? I mean when Zoon-in/out happens there should be AJAX (Google
Maps API) calls to the Google server - are there any web browser events,
corresponding to that API calls?(I know Browser navigation can be trapped
via web browser events but this isn't the question.) 

Thank you.

--

Shamil

P.S. Some more sample URLs:

Finland

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=65,27&spn=5,5 

UK

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=55,-3&spn=6,6 

Mexico

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=23,-102&spn=10,10 

Italy

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=41,12&spn=5,5 

Australia

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=-25,133&spn=20,20 

Japan

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=36,138&spn=5,5 

Madagascar

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=-18,46&spn=10,16 





From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Fri Aug  7 17:08:55 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 02:08:55 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] "Google Maps Navigator" Sample MS Access Application
In-Reply-To: <4a7c8dfb.0707d00a.26a7.4dd6@mx.google.com>
References: <005301ca174b$ecbdd3d0$c6397b70$@spb.ru>	<4a7c54b1.0a04d00a.07ea.2b62@mx.google.com>	<78954CFB9B7E441FA0B6ED708815CE40@Mattys>	<006d01ca178d$4f9569a0$eec03ce0$@spb.ru>
	<4a7c8dfb.0707d00a.26a7.4dd6@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <007a01ca17ab$a974c8d0$fc5e5a70$@spb.ru>

Hi Max,

Thank you for the links - I have found especially useful currently this one:

GoogleMaps API Samples
http://code.google.com/intl/ru-RU/apis/maps/documentation/examples/

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo
Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 12:26 AM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] "Google Maps Navigator" Sample MS Access Application

Some Links: (Wraps??)

http://www.google.co.uk/enterprise/maps/#utm_campaign=en&utm_source=en-ha-em
ea-gb-sk_devs&utm_medium=ha&utm_term=google%20maps%20api


http://code.google.com/apis/maps/index.html

http://code.google.com/apis/maps/documentation/examples/

Some code:

function initialize() {
  if (GBrowserIsCompatible()) {
    var map = new GMap2(document.getElementById("map_canvas"));
    map.setCenter(new GLatLng(37.4419, -122.1419), 13);
  }
}



Max


_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4316 (20090807) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru


 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4316 (20090807) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 



From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Fri Aug  7 17:26:11 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 02:26:11 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] "Google Maps Navigator" Sample MS Access	Application
In-Reply-To: <sa7cc0a7.011@cactus.dk>
References: <sa7cc0a7.011@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <007b01ca17ae$126a1190$373e34b0$@spb.ru>

HI Gustav,

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 2:03 AM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] "Google Maps Navigator" Sample MS Access Application

Hi Shamil

I'm not familiar with the MS Web Browser control but in .Net I have used
this URL to display just the map:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=da&geocode=&q=kalkbr%C3%A6nder
il%C3%B8bskaj+4+a,+denmark&sll=46.377254,-86.484375&sspn=28.638122,54.84375&
ie=UTF8&t=p&s=AARTsJo6QIZIUSLZJjht_Zf2KrLNZ8c1xw&ll=55.720439,12.595997&spn=
0.01692,0.036478&z=14&iwloc=addr&output=embed

Maybe you can decode its parts for your purpose.

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 07-08-2009 12:43 >>>
Hi All,

Have you ever tried to work with Google Maps in MS Access application via MS
Web Browser control?

To do some simple navigation you can use URLs like the following:

Finland

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=65,27&spn=5,5 

Using this approach I have made a simple sample application, which
screenshot you can see here:

http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/temp/GoogleMapsNavigator.jpg 

My question is: Do you know what format of URLs to use to show just a map?

I know there exist the Google Maps API
(http://code.google.com/intl/en-EN/apis/maps/) for advanced usage of Google
Maps via JavaScript but I wanted to try to bypass usage of that API this
time.

For the ones interested to experiment via simple Google Maps navigation
approach I have posted MS Access sample application here:

http://northwind.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=26600 

You can download it using the following URL(watch line wraps):

http://northwind.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=26600#D
ownloadId=78352  (175KB)

Our Northwind.CodePlex.com team could use the above approach + Google Maps
API in .NET sample application.

More advanced question is: Is there any way to react in MS Access hosting
form's VBA code to the changes done in Google Maps map, e.g. Zoom-in/out,
Move of map .? I mean when Zoon-in/out happens there should be AJAX (Google
Maps API) calls to the Google server - are there any web browser events,
corresponding to that API calls?(I know Browser navigation can be trapped
via web browser events but this isn't the question.) 

Thank you.

--

Shamil

P.S. Some more sample URLs:

Finland

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=65,27&spn=5,5 

UK

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=55,-3&spn=6,6 

Mexico

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=23,-102&spn=10,10 

Italy

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=41,12&spn=5,5 

Australia

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=-25,133&spn=20,20 

Japan

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=36,138&spn=5,5 

Madagascar

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=-18,46&spn=10,16 



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From fhtapia at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 13:14:55 2009
From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 11:14:55 -0700
Subject: [dba-VB] Reading and Writing to XML file (VB.Net 2005)
Message-ID: <b874372a0908111114h31990dbcl3707dc1f36cc974e@mail.gmail.com>

So it's been a while since I've done any programming in .net and this step
is something I've never done in .net, I've done it in Access and VB in the
past and involved writing classes, but am wondering how it's approached in
.net  (also for beginner vb.net you can point me to site you prefer if you
like)

my task.

I have a simple .net app, it queries a database and populates a DataGridView
control.  I purpose of this app is that it reads the time information from
our timeclock server so that users can easily see when their lunch or clock
out time for the day are since they have a flexibility of +/- 10min for
clocking in during the morning and at lunch.

It works well, but some users have asked for a tolerance to allow the app to
remind them as early as 10 minutes to clock out or as late as 1 min before
they absolutely need to clock out.  A settings form was then developed and
now I'm scracthing my head as I think I should store these settings into an
xml file, but thought that since I'm in .net that writing to an xml file
that was added using the add new item in my project should be simpler but
maybe I'm just wrong?



-Francisco
http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More...


From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Tue Aug 11 13:37:32 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 22:37:32 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Reading and Writing to XML file (VB.Net 2005)
In-Reply-To: <b874372a0908111114h31990dbcl3707dc1f36cc974e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b874372a0908111114h31990dbcl3707dc1f36cc974e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <004801ca1ab2$cb8b8620$62a29260$@spb.ru>

Hi Francisco,

Recommended by MS is to use:

Right-click Project Name -> Properties -> Settings

see "Settings Page, Project Designer" for more information.
see also "Application Settings".


--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco Tapia
Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 10:15 PM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: [dba-VB] Reading and Writing to XML file (VB.Net 2005)

So it's been a while since I've done any programming in .net and this step
is something I've never done in .net, I've done it in Access and VB in the
past and involved writing classes, but am wondering how it's approached in
.net  (also for beginner vb.net you can point me to site you prefer if you
like)

my task.

I have a simple .net app, it queries a database and populates a DataGridView
control.  I purpose of this app is that it reads the time information from
our timeclock server so that users can easily see when their lunch or clock
out time for the day are since they have a flexibility of +/- 10min for
clocking in during the morning and at lunch.

It works well, but some users have asked for a tolerance to allow the app to
remind them as early as 10 minutes to clock out or as late as 1 min before
they absolutely need to clock out.  A settings form was then developed and
now I'm scracthing my head as I think I should store these settings into an
xml file, but thought that since I'm in .net that writing to an xml file
that was added using the add new item in my project should be simpler but
maybe I'm just wrong?



-Francisco
http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More...
_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4326 (20090811) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru


 

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database 4326 (20090811) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 



From fhtapia at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 14:40:47 2009
From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 12:40:47 -0700
Subject: [dba-VB] Reading and Writing to XML file (VB.Net 2005)
In-Reply-To: <004801ca1ab2$cb8b8620$62a29260$@spb.ru>
References: <b874372a0908111114h31990dbcl3707dc1f36cc974e@mail.gmail.com>
	<004801ca1ab2$cb8b8620$62a29260$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <b874372a0908111240p6f84c4e4qfc5af6b1fa452da@mail.gmail.com>

That's cool! Thanks Shamil!

-Francisco
http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More...


On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 11:37 AM, Shamil Salakhetdinov <
shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru> wrote:

> Hi Francisco,
>
> Recommended by MS is to use:
>
> Right-click Project Name -> Properties -> Settings
>
> see "Settings Page, Project Designer" for more information.
> see also "Application Settings".
>
>
> --
> Shamil
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco Tapia
> Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 10:15 PM
> To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
> Subject: [dba-VB] Reading and Writing to XML file (VB.Net 2005)
>
> So it's been a while since I've done any programming in .net and this step
> is something I've never done in .net, I've done it in Access and VB in the
> past and involved writing classes, but am wondering how it's approached in
> .net  (also for beginner vb.net you can point me to site you prefer if you
> like)
>
> my task.
>
> I have a simple .net app, it queries a database and populates a
> DataGridView
> control.  I purpose of this app is that it reads the time information from
> our timeclock server so that users can easily see when their lunch or clock
> out time for the day are since they have a flexibility of +/- 10min for
> clocking in during the morning and at lunch.
>
> It works well, but some users have asked for a tolerance to allow the app
> to
> remind them as early as 10 minutes to clock out or as late as 1 min before
> they absolutely need to clock out.  A settings form was then developed and
> now I'm scracthing my head as I think I should store these settings into an
> xml file, but thought that since I'm in .net that writing to an xml file
> that was added using the add new item in my project should be simpler but
> maybe I'm just wrong?
>
>
>
> -Francisco
> http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More...
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
> signature
> database 4326 (20090811) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.esetnod32.ru
>
>
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
> signature
> database 4326 (20090811) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.esetnod32.ru
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>


From Gustav at cactus.dk  Fri Aug 14 09:57:40 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 16:57:40 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] Visual Studio 2008 Service Pack 1 ATL Security
	Update	(2009-08-03)
Message-ID: <sa859795.032@cactus.dk>

Hi all

For some reason I had trouble finding the download for this and had to google and look up a blog somewhere.
But here it is - 365 MB:

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?displaylang=en&FamilyID=294de390-3c94-49fb-a014-9a38580e64cb

/gustav




From Gustav at cactus.dk  Sun Aug 16 16:31:36 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 23:31:36 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] LINQ for EF Example (Part III)
Message-ID: <sa8896ff.062@cactus.dk>

Hi Shamil

This is a nice and clean example worth studying for anyone having the slightest interest in EF.
I'll see if I can find some contribution time for it this week.

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 23-07-2009 19:17 >>>

FYI: I have just got released a small VS2008 project:

- SPJWinFormsForEF_VS2008.zip - VS2008 sample project to demonstrate
WinForms and MS ReportViewer reports bound to ADO.NET Entity Framework
object datasources;
- SPJWinFormsForEF_Executables.zip - just executables and sample database
for the above sample project.

which can be used as sample to work on converting Northwind.NET to use
ADO.NET Entity Framework object data sources.

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 4:36 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] LINQ for EF Example (Part III)

Hi Shamil and team

That's fine with me.

I'm on my way with Rita (wife) to the nature of Sweden and Norway for a
relaxing break and will be back Monday 2009-08-03. Will try to view the
inbox now and then but won't promise anything ...

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-07-2009 19:29 >>>
Hi Mike and Gustav,

Thank you for your approval to team up to develop Northwind.NET for EF.
Let's first of all implement a simple sample form (Shippers, Suppliers...)
with BindingNavigator bound to object data source, and a simple sample
report (Shippers) bound to object data source, and then implement all the
other forms and reports of Northwind.NET using samples as templates?

Do you see any other ways to proceed with this project?

Thank you.

--
Shamil


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2009 11:26 AM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] LINQ for EF Example (Part III)

Hi Shamil

Of course, in lazy summer mode, as I probably will be off for a week or so
from late next week.

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 18-07-2009 14:30 >>>
Hi Mike,

Yes, "LINQ for ADO.NET Entity Framework" to be precise :)

What about teaming-up with Gustav and myself and to port our Northwind.NET
for MS SQL 2005 to "LINQ for ADO.NET Entity Framework"? Just an idea - and
doing that project in "lazy summer mode" without setting strict deadlines?

Gustav how about you?
Anybody else?

Have nice weekend.

--
Shamil





From mmattys at rochester.rr.com  Sun Aug 16 21:06:44 2009
From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 22:06:44 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] LINQ for EF Example (Part III)
References: <sa8896ff.062@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <7AACCA400CC8478C90F410420ADE9DD7@Mattys>

Hi Gustav, Shamil

This LinqPad might be handy
http://www.linqpad.net/WhyLINQBeatsSQL.aspx

-
Michael R Mattys
MapPoint and Database Dev
www.mattysconsulting.com
-

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Gustav Brock" <Gustav at cactus.dk>
To: <dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 5:31 PM
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] LINQ for EF Example (Part III)


> Hi Shamil
>
> This is a nice and clean example worth studying for anyone having the 
> slightest interest in EF.
> I'll see if I can find some contribution time for it this week.
>
> /gustav
>
>
>>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 23-07-2009 19:17 >>>
>
> FYI: I have just got released a small VS2008 project:
>
> - SPJWinFormsForEF_VS2008.zip - VS2008 sample project to demonstrate
> WinForms and MS ReportViewer reports bound to ADO.NET Entity Framework
> object datasources;
> - SPJWinFormsForEF_Executables.zip - just executables and sample database
> for the above sample project.
>
> which can be used as sample to work on converting Northwind.NET to use
> ADO.NET Entity Framework object data sources.
>
> Thank you.
>
> --
> Shamil
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
> Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 4:36 PM
> To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] LINQ for EF Example (Part III)
>
> Hi Shamil and team
>
> That's fine with me.
>
> I'm on my way with Rita (wife) to the nature of Sweden and Norway for a
> relaxing break and will be back Monday 2009-08-03. Will try to view the
> inbox now and then but won't promise anything ...
>
> /gustav
>
>



From Gustav at cactus.dk  Mon Aug 17 03:00:16 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 10:00:16 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] LINQ for EF Example (Part III)
Message-ID: <sa892a54.066@cactus.dk>

Hi Michael

Yes, it is very good. Also, with its many examples, this is a very good site to learn about the LINQ syntax.

/gustav


>>> mmattys at rochester.rr.com 17-08-2009 04:06 >>>
Hi Gustav, Shamil

This LinqPad might be handy
http://www.linqpad.net/WhyLINQBeatsSQL.aspx 

-
Michael R Mattys
MapPoint and Database Dev
www.mattysconsulting.com 
-

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Gustav Brock" <Gustav at cactus.dk>
To: <dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 5:31 PM
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] LINQ for EF Example (Part III)


> Hi Shamil
>
> This is a nice and clean example worth studying for anyone having the 
> slightest interest in EF.
> I'll see if I can find some contribution time for it this week.
>
> /gustav
>
>
>>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 23-07-2009 19:17 >>>
>
> FYI: I have just got released a small VS2008 project:
>
> - SPJWinFormsForEF_VS2008.zip - VS2008 sample project to demonstrate
> WinForms and MS ReportViewer reports bound to ADO.NET Entity Framework
> object datasources;
> - SPJWinFormsForEF_Executables.zip - just executables and sample database
> for the above sample project.
>
> which can be used as sample to work on converting Northwind.NET to use
> ADO.NET Entity Framework object data sources.
>
> Thank you.
>
> --
> Shamil
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
> Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 4:36 PM
> To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] LINQ for EF Example (Part III)
>
> Hi Shamil and team
>
> That's fine with me.
>
> I'm on my way with Rita (wife) to the nature of Sweden and Norway for a
> relaxing break and will be back Monday 2009-08-03. Will try to view the
> inbox now and then but won't promise anything ...
>
> /gustav





From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Mon Aug 17 13:15:38 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 22:15:38 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] LINQ for EF Example (Part III)
In-Reply-To: <sa8896ff.062@cactus.dk>
References: <sa8896ff.062@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <003601ca1f66$ba0bef30$2e23cd90$@spb.ru>

Hi Gistav, Mike and All,

TIA, Gistav.

I've got quite a bit of work here in the end of July/beginning-middle of
August - still can't continue with Northwind.NET for EF but we will make it
for sure.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 1:32 AM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] LINQ for EF Example (Part III)

Hi Shamil

This is a nice and clean example worth studying for anyone having the
slightest interest in EF.
I'll see if I can find some contribution time for it this week.

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 23-07-2009 19:17 >>>

FYI: I have just got released a small VS2008 project:

- SPJWinFormsForEF_VS2008.zip - VS2008 sample project to demonstrate
WinForms and MS ReportViewer reports bound to ADO.NET Entity Framework
object datasources;
- SPJWinFormsForEF_Executables.zip - just executables and sample database
for the above sample project.

which can be used as sample to work on converting Northwind.NET to use
ADO.NET Entity Framework object data sources.

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 4:36 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] LINQ for EF Example (Part III)

Hi Shamil and team

That's fine with me.

I'm on my way with Rita (wife) to the nature of Sweden and Norway for a
relaxing break and will be back Monday 2009-08-03. Will try to view the
inbox now and then but won't promise anything ...

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-07-2009 19:29 >>>
Hi Mike and Gustav,

Thank you for your approval to team up to develop Northwind.NET for EF.
Let's first of all implement a simple sample form (Shippers, Suppliers...)
with BindingNavigator bound to object data source, and a simple sample
report (Shippers) bound to object data source, and then implement all the
other forms and reports of Northwind.NET using samples as templates?

Do you see any other ways to proceed with this project?

Thank you.

--
Shamil


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2009 11:26 AM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] LINQ for EF Example (Part III)

Hi Shamil

Of course, in lazy summer mode, as I probably will be off for a week or so
from late next week.

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 18-07-2009 14:30 >>>
Hi Mike,

Yes, "LINQ for ADO.NET Entity Framework" to be precise :)

What about teaming-up with Gustav and myself and to port our Northwind.NET
for MS SQL 2005 to "LINQ for ADO.NET Entity Framework"? Just an idea - and
doing that project in "lazy summer mode" without setting strict deadlines?

Gustav how about you?
Anybody else?

Have nice weekend.

--
Shamil



_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4342 (20090817) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru


 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4343 (20090817) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 



From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Thu Aug 20 10:38:36 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 19:38:36 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications
Message-ID: <00f801ca21ac$49d8d8c0$dd8a8a40$@spb.ru>

Hi All,

 

I'm currently working on a project where I use Dynamic Data Entities Web
Applications - DDEWA-(VS2008 SP1).

 

I have tried to search Google and Bing to find some information on DDEWA but
failed.

Do you have any useful links on DDEWA?

 

Thank you.

 

--

Shamil

 



From Gustav at cactus.dk  Thu Aug 20 10:43:56 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 17:43:56 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications
Message-ID: <sa8d8b73.048@cactus.dk>

Hi Shamil

No, not me. But how did you get started on this having no info??

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 20-08-2009 17:38 >>>
Hi All,

I'm currently working on a project where I use Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications - DDEWA-(VS2008 SP1).

I have tried to search Google and Bing to find some information on DDEWA but failed.

Do you have any useful links on DDEWA?

Thank you.

--
Shamil





From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Thu Aug 20 11:06:21 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 20:06:21 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications
In-Reply-To: <sa8d8b73.048@cactus.dk>
References: <sa8d8b73.048@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <00fd01ca21b0$2a612250$7f2366f0$@spb.ru>

Hi Gustav,

VS2008 SP1: 

1. Solution: Add: New Project -> Dynamic Data Entities Web Application...
2. Project: Add: New Item -> ADO.NET Entity Data Model

The next steps are rather obvious, and Global.asax's comments give the clue
how to make the application to work.

But I can't get some more information on this type of projects. Yes, I can
investigate them but I'd prefer to have some ready to use descriptions. 

Can't find them online on MSDN....

I have just got this link, which looks interesting:

http://channel9.msdn.com/posts/matthijs/Fastest-To-Market-RAD-Web-Applicatio
ns-with-ASPNET-Dynamic-Data-and-Entity-Framework/

It's a 1+ hour video...

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 7:44 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil

No, not me. But how did you get started on this having no info??

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 20-08-2009 17:38 >>>
Hi All,

I'm currently working on a project where I use Dynamic Data Entities Web
Applications - DDEWA-(VS2008 SP1).

I have tried to search Google and Bing to find some information on DDEWA but
failed.

Do you have any useful links on DDEWA?

Thank you.

--
Shamil



_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


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database 4351 (20090820) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru


 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4351 (20090820) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 



From Gustav at cactus.dk  Thu Aug 20 11:21:31 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 18:21:31 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications
Message-ID: <sa8d943d.049@cactus.dk>

Hi Shamil

How about this, part 1 of 5:

http://www.c-sharpcorner.com/UploadFile/satisharveti/DynamicWebappln101152009023618AM/DynamicWebappln1.aspx 

Pretty basic and few illustrations only but still something.

Will see if I can find one hour for the video ...

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 20-08-2009 18:06 >>>
Hi Gustav,

VS2008 SP1: 

1. Solution: Add: New Project -> Dynamic Data Entities Web Application...
2. Project: Add: New Item -> ADO.NET Entity Data Model

The next steps are rather obvious, and Global.asax's comments give the clue
how to make the application to work.

But I can't get some more information on this type of projects. Yes, I can
investigate them but I'd prefer to have some ready to use descriptions. 

Can't find them online on MSDN....

I have just got this link, which looks interesting:

http://channel9.msdn.com/posts/matthijs/Fastest-To-Market-RAD-Web-Applications-with-ASPNET-Dynamic-Data-and-Entity-Framework/

It's a 1+ hour video...

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 7:44 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil

No, not me. But how did you get started on this having no info??

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 20-08-2009 17:38 >>>
Hi All,

I'm currently working on a project where I use Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications - DDEWA-(VS2008 SP1).

I have tried to search Google and Bing to find some information on DDEWA but failed.

Do you have any useful links on DDEWA?

Thank you.

--
Shamil





From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Thu Aug 20 14:22:49 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 23:22:49 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications
In-Reply-To: <sa8d943d.049@cactus.dk>
References: <sa8d943d.049@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <010a01ca21cb$9c846340$d58d29c0$@spb.ru>

Hi Gustav,

Thank you for the link - he parts 1 to 6 give similar to the channel9
presentation information - I watched the latter, it's a bit hectic but
useful to get general idea what Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications are
and how to customize them.

I currently plan to use Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications for initial
data entry/edit for my customer application - it works well when datamodel
is ready - just generate ASP.NET application.

I also wanted to find a way to somehow "grab" generated .aspx pages to use
them in developing custom .aspx webforms/pages: not sure yet how to do that
but it should be possible I hope as they obviously(?) generate .aspx pages
on-the-fly, and there could be a way to grab generated .aspx page before
it's getting rendered on server side...

I currently do not plan to use Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications
customization features.

Thank you.

--
Shamil 

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 8:22 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil

How about this, part 1 of 5:

http://www.c-sharpcorner.com/UploadFile/satisharveti/DynamicWebappln10115200
9023618AM/DynamicWebappln1.aspx 

Pretty basic and few illustrations only but still something.

Will see if I can find one hour for the video ...

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 20-08-2009 18:06 >>>
Hi Gustav,

VS2008 SP1: 

1. Solution: Add: New Project -> Dynamic Data Entities Web Application...
2. Project: Add: New Item -> ADO.NET Entity Data Model

The next steps are rather obvious, and Global.asax's comments give the clue
how to make the application to work.

But I can't get some more information on this type of projects. Yes, I can
investigate them but I'd prefer to have some ready to use descriptions. 

Can't find them online on MSDN....

I have just got this link, which looks interesting:

http://channel9.msdn.com/posts/matthijs/Fastest-To-Market-RAD-Web-Applicatio
ns-with-ASPNET-Dynamic-Data-and-Entity-Framework/

It's a 1+ hour video...

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 7:44 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil

No, not me. But how did you get started on this having no info??

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 20-08-2009 17:38 >>>
Hi All,

I'm currently working on a project where I use Dynamic Data Entities Web
Applications - DDEWA-(VS2008 SP1).

I have tried to search Google and Bing to find some information on DDEWA but
failed.

Do you have any useful links on DDEWA?

Thank you.

--
Shamil



_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4351 (20090820) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru


 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4353 (20090820) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 



From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Thu Aug 20 15:00:59 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 00:00:59 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications
In-Reply-To: <010a01ca21cb$9c846340$d58d29c0$@spb.ru>
References: <sa8d943d.049@cactus.dk> <010a01ca21cb$9c846340$d58d29c0$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <010b01ca21d0$f1667ba0$d43372e0$@spb.ru>

Hi All,

Here is the info from MSDN on the subject:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc488545.aspx


--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil
Salakhetdinov
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 11:23 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Gustav,

Thank you for the link - he parts 1 to 6 give similar to the channel9
presentation information - I watched the latter, it's a bit hectic but
useful to get general idea what Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications are
and how to customize them.

I currently plan to use Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications for initial
data entry/edit for my customer application - it works well when datamodel
is ready - just generate ASP.NET application.

I also wanted to find a way to somehow "grab" generated .aspx pages to use
them in developing custom .aspx webforms/pages: not sure yet how to do that
but it should be possible I hope as they obviously(?) generate .aspx pages
on-the-fly, and there could be a way to grab generated .aspx page before
it's getting rendered on server side...

I currently do not plan to use Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications
customization features.

Thank you.

--
Shamil 

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 8:22 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil

How about this, part 1 of 5:

http://www.c-sharpcorner.com/UploadFile/satisharveti/DynamicWebappln10115200
9023618AM/DynamicWebappln1.aspx 

Pretty basic and few illustrations only but still something.

Will see if I can find one hour for the video ...

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 20-08-2009 18:06 >>>
Hi Gustav,

VS2008 SP1: 

1. Solution: Add: New Project -> Dynamic Data Entities Web Application...
2. Project: Add: New Item -> ADO.NET Entity Data Model

The next steps are rather obvious, and Global.asax's comments give the clue
how to make the application to work.

But I can't get some more information on this type of projects. Yes, I can
investigate them but I'd prefer to have some ready to use descriptions. 

Can't find them online on MSDN....

I have just got this link, which looks interesting:

http://channel9.msdn.com/posts/matthijs/Fastest-To-Market-RAD-Web-Applicatio
ns-with-ASPNET-Dynamic-Data-and-Entity-Framework/

It's a 1+ hour video...

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 7:44 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil

No, not me. But how did you get started on this having no info??

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 20-08-2009 17:38 >>>
Hi All,

I'm currently working on a project where I use Dynamic Data Entities Web
Applications - DDEWA-(VS2008 SP1).

I have tried to search Google and Bing to find some information on DDEWA but
failed.

Do you have any useful links on DDEWA?

Thank you.

--
Shamil



_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4351 (20090820) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru


 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4353 (20090820) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 

_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4353 (20090820) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru


 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4353 (20090820) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 



From cfoust at infostatsystems.com  Thu Aug 20 17:37:24 2009
From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 15:37:24 -0700
Subject: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications
In-Reply-To: <00fd01ca21b0$2a612250$7f2366f0$@spb.ru>
References: <sa8d8b73.048@cactus.dk> <00fd01ca21b0$2a612250$7f2366f0$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <F55048AF7E974F429BB24597D7355EEABFAD70@INFOSERVER04.infostat.local>

Our project manager warned us about dynamic data entities and the MS
entity model.  No personal experience and he isn't a developer, so he's
talking about his previous job.

Charlotte Foust 

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil
Salakhetdinov
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 9:06 AM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Gustav,

VS2008 SP1: 

1. Solution: Add: New Project -> Dynamic Data Entities Web
Application...
2. Project: Add: New Item -> ADO.NET Entity Data Model

The next steps are rather obvious, and Global.asax's comments give the
clue how to make the application to work.

But I can't get some more information on this type of projects. Yes, I
can investigate them but I'd prefer to have some ready to use
descriptions. 

Can't find them online on MSDN....

I have just got this link, which looks interesting:

http://channel9.msdn.com/posts/matthijs/Fastest-To-Market-RAD-Web-Applic
atio
ns-with-ASPNET-Dynamic-Data-and-Entity-Framework/

It's a 1+ hour video...

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 7:44 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil

No, not me. But how did you get started on this having no info??

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 20-08-2009 17:38 >>>
Hi All,

I'm currently working on a project where I use Dynamic Data Entities Web
Applications - DDEWA-(VS2008 SP1).

I have tried to search Google and Bing to find some information on DDEWA
but failed.

Do you have any useful links on DDEWA?

Thank you.

--
Shamil



_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
signature database 4351 (20090820) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru


 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
signature database 4351 (20090820) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 

_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com




From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Fri Aug 21 02:57:30 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 11:57:30 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications
In-Reply-To: <F55048AF7E974F429BB24597D7355EEABFAD70@INFOSERVER04.infostat.local>
References: <sa8d8b73.048@cactus.dk> <00fd01ca21b0$2a612250$7f2366f0$@spb.ru>
	<F55048AF7E974F429BB24597D7355EEABFAD70@INFOSERVER04.infostat.local>
Message-ID: <012301ca2235$0a1e7620$1e5b6260$@spb.ru>

Hi Charlotte --

Thank you for your information.

As I noted I currently do not plan to use dynamic data entities web
applications in production but only to verify the data model design, to give
to customers/users "working model" of some of their business areas, to
prepare lookup/sample/test data: I found it very useful -  I have just
developed rather complicated data model for my customer project, clicked
several times my mouse, made a few selections, typed a few chars - and
voila' I can enter data, navigate all tables etc.

Would that be possible to get known from your project manager what are the
causes of their warnings about dynamic data entities? - I think that would
be very useful for everybody here to know about their experience to not
"step on rakes" as we say here.

BTW, customization features provided by dynamic data entities web
applications are also rather useful to implement something like "working,
real life environment simulating specification": I have got only glanced
those customization features and I have found they can be used at least to:

- develop/simulate/test some kinds of (simple) business rules/checks used
during data entry/edit;
- develop almost ready to use in ASP.NET production environment ASP.NET
custom controls.

There should be more useful features I'm quite sure.

And once again what is very important is that you can give "working model"
for your customers/users almost immediately after/during the talks with
them, they can play with it, they can get "instant fixes" for it etc. I have
checked and AFAIS ADO.NET Entity Data Model can be quickly regenerated
within VS2008 when source DB changes, and such regeneration preserves custom
edits of ADO.NET Entity Data Model objects. Good stuff. Only positive
experience so far.

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 2:37 AM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Our project manager warned us about dynamic data entities and the MS
entity model.  No personal experience and he isn't a developer, so he's
talking about his previous job.

Charlotte Foust 

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil
Salakhetdinov
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 9:06 AM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Gustav,

VS2008 SP1: 

1. Solution: Add: New Project -> Dynamic Data Entities Web
Application...
2. Project: Add: New Item -> ADO.NET Entity Data Model

The next steps are rather obvious, and Global.asax's comments give the
clue how to make the application to work.

But I can't get some more information on this type of projects. Yes, I
can investigate them but I'd prefer to have some ready to use
descriptions. 

Can't find them online on MSDN....

I have just got this link, which looks interesting:

http://channel9.msdn.com/posts/matthijs/Fastest-To-Market-RAD-Web-Applic
atio
ns-with-ASPNET-Dynamic-Data-and-Entity-Framework/

It's a 1+ hour video...

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 7:44 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil

No, not me. But how did you get started on this having no info??

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 20-08-2009 17:38 >>>
Hi All,

I'm currently working on a project where I use Dynamic Data Entities Web
Applications - DDEWA-(VS2008 SP1).

I have tried to search Google and Bing to find some information on DDEWA
but failed.

Do you have any useful links on DDEWA?

Thank you.

--
Shamil



 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4353 (20090820) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 



From Gustav at cactus.dk  Fri Aug 21 05:26:40 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 12:26:40 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications
Message-ID: <sa8e928f.060@cactus.dk>

Hi Shamil and Charlotte

I watched that video - some challenge due to the awful soundtrack - and my impression is that this dynamic data entities web is useful only for creating an interface to the complete table schema - which you hardly never use (I haven't) except for the example Shamil describes where you wish to present the full schema as well as the data content and even offer to edit this at close to zero efforts. I could imagine some kind of monitoring or admin/techie interface built this way.

For any other purpose a lot of customizing is needed which - though quite powerful, so it seems - for a decent app will take longer than building the app from scratch I guess. 

So - as I see it - this technique has its uses but app development is not on of these.

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 09:57 >>>
Hi Charlotte --

Thank you for your information.

As I noted I currently do not plan to use dynamic data entities web
applications in production but only to verify the data model design, to give
to customers/users "working model" of some of their business areas, to
prepare lookup/sample/test data: I found it very useful -  I have just
developed rather complicated data model for my customer project, clicked
several times my mouse, made a few selections, typed a few chars - and
voila' I can enter data, navigate all tables etc.

Would that be possible to get known from your project manager what are the
causes of their warnings about dynamic data entities? - I think that would
be very useful for everybody here to know about their experience to not
"step on rakes" as we say here.

BTW, customization features provided by dynamic data entities web
applications are also rather useful to implement something like "working,
real life environment simulating specification": I have got only glanced
those customization features and I have found they can be used at least to:

- develop/simulate/test some kinds of (simple) business rules/checks used during data entry/edit;
- develop almost ready to use in ASP.NET production environment ASP.NET custom controls.

There should be more useful features I'm quite sure.

And once again what is very important is that you can give "working model"
for your customers/users almost immediately after/during the talks with
them, they can play with it, they can get "instant fixes" for it etc. I have
checked and AFAIS ADO.NET Entity Data Model can be quickly regenerated
within VS2008 when source DB changes, and such regeneration preserves custom
edits of ADO.NET Entity Data Model objects. Good stuff. Only positive
experience so far.

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 2:37 AM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Our project manager warned us about dynamic data entities and the MS entity model.  No personal experience and he isn't a developer, so he's talking about his previous job.

Charlotte Foust 

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil
Salakhetdinov
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 9:06 AM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Gustav,

VS2008 SP1: 

1. Solution: Add: New Project -> Dynamic Data Entities Web Application...
2. Project: Add: New Item -> ADO.NET Entity Data Model

The next steps are rather obvious, and Global.asax's comments give the clue how to make the application to work.

But I can't get some more information on this type of projects. Yes, I can investigate them but I'd prefer to have some ready to use descriptions. 

Can't find them online on MSDN....

I have just got this link, which looks interesting:

http://channel9.msdn.com/posts/matthijs/Fastest-To-Market-RAD-Web-Applications-with-ASPNET-Dynamic-Data-and-Entity-Framework/

It's a 1+ hour video...

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 7:44 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil

No, not me. But how did you get started on this having no info??

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 20-08-2009 17:38 >>>
Hi All,

I'm currently working on a project where I use Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications - DDEWA-(VS2008 SP1).

I have tried to search Google and Bing to find some information on DDEWA but failed.

Do you have any useful links on DDEWA?

Thank you.

--
Shamil




From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Fri Aug 21 06:18:59 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 15:18:59 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications
In-Reply-To: <sa8e928f.060@cactus.dk>
References: <sa8e928f.060@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <013301ca2251$2f876c20$8e964460$@spb.ru>

Hi Gustav,

Yes, it takes "close to zero efforts" (~1 minute) to have a "web
application" for this ADO.NET entity model

http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/temp/model.jpg

which in turn was generated from MS SQL 2005 database.

<<<
...this technique has its uses but app development is not one of these...
>>>
Gustav, let me disagree with that your statement.

First of all because (sample) and lookup data entry/edit is in fact part of
our everyday real life practice of application development.

Second, because Dynamic Data Entity Web Applications (DDEWA) do help
developers to verify their data modeling decisions by "effortlessly" giving
"working models" in hands of (power-)users, and when users/developers find
there are some mistakes in those decisions then DDEWA help to quickly fix
those mistakes (as you can see from referred here video you have to just
redeploy your corrected db and corresponding .edmx file and then refresh
your browser - and you'll get the new version "up & running". This practice
of verifying data modeling decisions in real life environment is also our
everyday practice but it usually takes much more efforts when done without
DDEWA. 

Third, because as I noted you can prepare within DDEWA ready to use in real
apps "code blocks" (.ascx controls etc.) while "playing with" DDEWA (again
as you can see no need to rebuild/restart the application - just refresh
your browser - well, that is a consequence of ASP.NET technology used for
DDEWA)

Fourth, as we talked here before, ADO.NET Entity Data Model will allow in
the (near) future to generate actual database models from ADO.NET Entity
models - wouldn't that become soon our everyday development practice?
(Imagine you start from use cases/user stories, develop customs classes and
business functionality based on ADO.NET Entity objects, develop unit tests,
then generate database model, develop integration tests, generate/customize
application interface... - and you're done. (of course I'm simplifying here
the real picture but IMO mainstream direction is presented correctly?))

Fifth, as we can see DDEWA user interface is generated from ADO.NET Entity
Model and this model (which is currently in the referred above case is
simply generated from database model) can be made having "Super-Entities"
modeling user interfaces' underplaying data, these "Super-Entities" can have
relations used by DDEWA to navigate between them... - IOW this is a way to
simulate real life apps user interfaces and navigation, and then "just add"
a mapping from "Super-Entities" to database entities...

...

DDEWA looks here very challenging and in the same time helpful to our
everyday development practices, not a "silver bullet" of course as we're
getting more and more complicated business tasks to automate but they
(DDEWA) promise to get out "yet another routine everyday work" from the
shoulders of developers...

Thank you.

--
Shamil 

P.S. The idea of DDEWA to generate user interface doesn't look original - we
have seen many "wizard tools" like that (I have even participated in
developing tools like that for different platforms, did you?) - but
implementation of this idea by MS folks and the ways to (re-)use this
implementation for real life apps development look very powerful, useful and
challenging from here. My five stars (*****) to MS DDEWA technology
developers.

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 2:27 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil and Charlotte

I watched that video - some challenge due to the awful soundtrack - and my
impression is that this dynamic data entities web is useful only for
creating an interface to the complete table schema - which you hardly never
use (I haven't) except for the example Shamil describes where you wish to
present the full schema as well as the data content and even offer to edit
this at close to zero efforts. I could imagine some kind of monitoring or
admin/techie interface built this way.

For any other purpose a lot of customizing is needed which - though quite
powerful, so it seems - for a decent app will take longer than building the
app from scratch I guess. 

So - as I see it - this technique has its uses but app development is not on
of these.

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 09:57 >>>
Hi Charlotte --

Thank you for your information.

As I noted I currently do not plan to use dynamic data entities web
applications in production but only to verify the data model design, to give
to customers/users "working model" of some of their business areas, to
prepare lookup/sample/test data: I found it very useful -  I have just
developed rather complicated data model for my customer project, clicked
several times my mouse, made a few selections, typed a few chars - and
voila' I can enter data, navigate all tables etc.

Would that be possible to get known from your project manager what are the
causes of their warnings about dynamic data entities? - I think that would
be very useful for everybody here to know about their experience to not
"step on rakes" as we say here.

BTW, customization features provided by dynamic data entities web
applications are also rather useful to implement something like "working,
real life environment simulating specification": I have got only glanced
those customization features and I have found they can be used at least to:

- develop/simulate/test some kinds of (simple) business rules/checks used
during data entry/edit;
- develop almost ready to use in ASP.NET production environment ASP.NET
custom controls.

There should be more useful features I'm quite sure.

And once again what is very important is that you can give "working model"
for your customers/users almost immediately after/during the talks with
them, they can play with it, they can get "instant fixes" for it etc. I have
checked and AFAIS ADO.NET Entity Data Model can be quickly regenerated
within VS2008 when source DB changes, and such regeneration preserves custom
edits of ADO.NET Entity Data Model objects. Good stuff. Only positive
experience so far.

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 2:37 AM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Our project manager warned us about dynamic data entities and the MS entity
model.  No personal experience and he isn't a developer, so he's talking
about his previous job.

Charlotte Foust 

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil
Salakhetdinov
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 9:06 AM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Gustav,

VS2008 SP1: 

1. Solution: Add: New Project -> Dynamic Data Entities Web Application...
2. Project: Add: New Item -> ADO.NET Entity Data Model

The next steps are rather obvious, and Global.asax's comments give the clue
how to make the application to work.

But I can't get some more information on this type of projects. Yes, I can
investigate them but I'd prefer to have some ready to use descriptions. 

Can't find them online on MSDN....

I have just got this link, which looks interesting:

http://channel9.msdn.com/posts/matthijs/Fastest-To-Market-RAD-Web-Applicatio
ns-with-ASPNET-Dynamic-Data-and-Entity-Framework/

It's a 1+ hour video...

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 7:44 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil

No, not me. But how did you get started on this having no info??

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 20-08-2009 17:38 >>>
Hi All,

I'm currently working on a project where I use Dynamic Data Entities Web
Applications - DDEWA-(VS2008 SP1).

I have tried to search Google and Bing to find some information on DDEWA but
failed.

Do you have any useful links on DDEWA?

Thank you.

--
Shamil






From Gustav at cactus.dk  Fri Aug 21 07:44:57 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:44:57 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications
Message-ID: <sa8eb310.072@cactus.dk>

Hi Shamil

My comments were not on the ADO.NET Entity Data Model which I find very promising.

Your example of a "superuser" having access to the schema and full (test) data is what I meant with a admin/techie app which I believe can be useful - only have I never met a client which had much more than just a sense of what the database is about.

I agree with you that dynamic data entities web tool seems to be very well engineered.

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 13:18 >>>
Hi Gustav,

Yes, it takes "close to zero efforts" (~1 minute) to have a "web
application" for this ADO.NET entity model

http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/temp/model.jpg 

which in turn was generated from MS SQL 2005 database.

<<<
...this technique has its uses but app development is not one of these...
>>>
Gustav, let me disagree with that your statement.

First of all because (sample) and lookup data entry/edit is in fact part of
our everyday real life practice of application development.

Second, because Dynamic Data Entity Web Applications (DDEWA) do help
developers to verify their data modeling decisions by "effortlessly" giving
"working models" in hands of (power-)users, and when users/developers find
there are some mistakes in those decisions then DDEWA help to quickly fix
those mistakes (as you can see from referred here video you have to just
redeploy your corrected db and corresponding .edmx file and then refresh
your browser - and you'll get the new version "up & running". This practice
of verifying data modeling decisions in real life environment is also our
everyday practice but it usually takes much more efforts when done without
DDEWA. 

Third, because as I noted you can prepare within DDEWA ready to use in real
apps "code blocks" (.ascx controls etc.) while "playing with" DDEWA (again
as you can see no need to rebuild/restart the application - just refresh
your browser - well, that is a consequence of ASP.NET technology used for
DDEWA)

Fourth, as we talked here before, ADO.NET Entity Data Model will allow in
the (near) future to generate actual database models from ADO.NET Entity
models - wouldn't that become soon our everyday development practice?
(Imagine you start from use cases/user stories, develop customs classes and
business functionality based on ADO.NET Entity objects, develop unit tests,
then generate database model, develop integration tests, generate/customize
application interface... - and you're done. (of course I'm simplifying here
the real picture but IMO mainstream direction is presented correctly?))

Fifth, as we can see DDEWA user interface is generated from ADO.NET Entity
Model and this model (which is currently in the referred above case is
simply generated from database model) can be made having "Super-Entities"
modeling user interfaces' underplaying data, these "Super-Entities" can have
relations used by DDEWA to navigate between them... - IOW this is a way to
simulate real life apps user interfaces and navigation, and then "just add"
a mapping from "Super-Entities" to database entities...

...

DDEWA looks here very challenging and in the same time helpful to our
everyday development practices, not a "silver bullet" of course as we're
getting more and more complicated business tasks to automate but they
(DDEWA) promise to get out "yet another routine everyday work" from the
shoulders of developers...

Thank you.

--
Shamil 

P.S. The idea of DDEWA to generate user interface doesn't look original - we
have seen many "wizard tools" like that (I have even participated in
developing tools like that for different platforms, did you?) - but
implementation of this idea by MS folks and the ways to (re-)use this
implementation for real life apps development look very powerful, useful and
challenging from here. My five stars (*****) to MS DDEWA technology
developers.

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 2:27 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil and Charlotte

I watched that video - some challenge due to the awful soundtrack - and my
impression is that this dynamic data entities web is useful only for
creating an interface to the complete table schema - which you hardly never
use (I haven't) except for the example Shamil describes where you wish to
present the full schema as well as the data content and even offer to edit
this at close to zero efforts. I could imagine some kind of monitoring or
admin/techie interface built this way.

For any other purpose a lot of customizing is needed which - though quite
powerful, so it seems - for a decent app will take longer than building the
app from scratch I guess. 

So - as I see it - this technique has its uses but app development is not on
of these.

/gustav




From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Fri Aug 21 11:07:59 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 20:07:59 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications
In-Reply-To: <sa8eb310.072@cactus.dk>
References: <sa8eb310.072@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <014301ca2279$8fc9e180$af5da480$@spb.ru>

Hi Gustav --

Yes, I do know that you find ADO.NET Entity Data Model very promising.

And I only wanted to note that I find DDEWA also very promising to perform
quite some routine work we and our customers/"super-users" are doing
manually nowadays.

BTW, as far as I see/can guess DDEWA are implemented using very similar to
ASP.NET MVC Framework approach: I mean they seems to be using "some tricks"
on top of ASP.NET engine to generate on-the-fly ASP.NET controls and web
forms and "feed" ASP.NET engine using these generated web forms/controls. I
can be wrong. Just guessing...

I will continue my R&D with DDEWA and if I find something interesting I will
post this information here.

BTW, I'm currently trying to customize the order of the list of the tables
shown on the first page (Default.aspx) of my DDEWA, any ideas?

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 4:45 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil

My comments were not on the ADO.NET Entity Data Model which I find very
promising.

Your example of a "superuser" having access to the schema and full (test)
data is what I meant with a admin/techie app which I believe can be useful -
only have I never met a client which had much more than just a sense of what
the database is about.

I agree with you that dynamic data entities web tool seems to be very well
engineered.

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 13:18 >>>
Hi Gustav,

Yes, it takes "close to zero efforts" (~1 minute) to have a "web
application" for this ADO.NET entity model

http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/temp/model.jpg 

which in turn was generated from MS SQL 2005 database.

<<<
...this technique has its uses but app development is not one of these...
>>>
Gustav, let me disagree with that your statement.

First of all because (sample) and lookup data entry/edit is in fact part of
our everyday real life practice of application development.

Second, because Dynamic Data Entity Web Applications (DDEWA) do help
developers to verify their data modeling decisions by "effortlessly" giving
"working models" in hands of (power-)users, and when users/developers find
there are some mistakes in those decisions then DDEWA help to quickly fix
those mistakes (as you can see from referred here video you have to just
redeploy your corrected db and corresponding .edmx file and then refresh
your browser - and you'll get the new version "up & running". This practice
of verifying data modeling decisions in real life environment is also our
everyday practice but it usually takes much more efforts when done without
DDEWA. 

Third, because as I noted you can prepare within DDEWA ready to use in real
apps "code blocks" (.ascx controls etc.) while "playing with" DDEWA (again
as you can see no need to rebuild/restart the application - just refresh
your browser - well, that is a consequence of ASP.NET technology used for
DDEWA)

Fourth, as we talked here before, ADO.NET Entity Data Model will allow in
the (near) future to generate actual database models from ADO.NET Entity
models - wouldn't that become soon our everyday development practice?
(Imagine you start from use cases/user stories, develop customs classes and
business functionality based on ADO.NET Entity objects, develop unit tests,
then generate database model, develop integration tests, generate/customize
application interface... - and you're done. (of course I'm simplifying here
the real picture but IMO mainstream direction is presented correctly?))

Fifth, as we can see DDEWA user interface is generated from ADO.NET Entity
Model and this model (which is currently in the referred above case is
simply generated from database model) can be made having "Super-Entities"
modeling user interfaces' underplaying data, these "Super-Entities" can have
relations used by DDEWA to navigate between them... - IOW this is a way to
simulate real life apps user interfaces and navigation, and then "just add"
a mapping from "Super-Entities" to database entities...

...

DDEWA looks here very challenging and in the same time helpful to our
everyday development practices, not a "silver bullet" of course as we're
getting more and more complicated business tasks to automate but they
(DDEWA) promise to get out "yet another routine everyday work" from the
shoulders of developers...

Thank you.

--
Shamil 

P.S. The idea of DDEWA to generate user interface doesn't look original - we
have seen many "wizard tools" like that (I have even participated in
developing tools like that for different platforms, did you?) - but
implementation of this idea by MS folks and the ways to (re-)use this
implementation for real life apps development look very powerful, useful and
challenging from here. My five stars (*****) to MS DDEWA technology
developers.

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 2:27 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil and Charlotte

I watched that video - some challenge due to the awful soundtrack - and my
impression is that this dynamic data entities web is useful only for
creating an interface to the complete table schema - which you hardly never
use (I haven't) except for the example Shamil describes where you wish to
present the full schema as well as the data content and even offer to edit
this at close to zero efforts. I could imagine some kind of monitoring or
admin/techie interface built this way.

For any other purpose a lot of customizing is needed which - though quite
powerful, so it seems - for a decent app will take longer than building the
app from scratch I guess. 

So - as I see it - this technique has its uses but app development is not on
of these.

/gustav


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From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Fri Aug 21 14:57:10 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 23:57:10 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Click-Once stopped to work on my Vista PC....
Message-ID: <016301ca2299$93cf56a0$bb6e03e0$@spb.ru>

Hi All,

 

If you remember I have had a posting on the subject issue here - the issue
was caused by the fact that .application extension did get Notepad as
default edit program - when you set default program back to "Application
Deployment Support Library" then Click-Once does start to work well again.
The answer came from StackOverflow. 

 

Thank you.

 

--

Shamil



From Gustav at cactus.dk  Fri Aug 21 16:25:57 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 23:25:57 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications
Message-ID: <sa8f2d25.082@cactus.dk>

Hi Shamil

Yes, please post your findings please.

As for the order of the tables, isn't it just based on the enumeration in SQL Server?

/gustav

>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 18:07 >>>
Hi Gustav --

Yes, I do know that you find ADO.NET Entity Data Model very promising.

And I only wanted to note that I find DDEWA also very promising to perform
quite some routine work we and our customers/"super-users" are doing
manually nowadays.

BTW, as far as I see/can guess DDEWA are implemented using very similar to
ASP.NET MVC Framework approach: I mean they seems to be using "some tricks"
on top of ASP.NET engine to generate on-the-fly ASP.NET controls and web
forms and "feed" ASP.NET engine using these generated web forms/controls. I
can be wrong. Just guessing...

I will continue my R&D with DDEWA and if I find something interesting I will
post this information here.

BTW, I'm currently trying to customize the order of the list of the tables
shown on the first page (Default.aspx) of my DDEWA, any ideas?

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 4:45 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil

My comments were not on the ADO.NET Entity Data Model which I find very
promising.

Your example of a "superuser" having access to the schema and full (test)
data is what I meant with a admin/techie app which I believe can be useful -
only have I never met a client which had much more than just a sense of what
the database is about.

I agree with you that dynamic data entities web tool seems to be very well
engineered.

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 13:18 >>>
Hi Gustav,

Yes, it takes "close to zero efforts" (~1 minute) to have a "web
application" for this ADO.NET entity model

http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/temp/model.jpg 

which in turn was generated from MS SQL 2005 database.

<<<
...this technique has its uses but app development is not one of these...
>>>
Gustav, let me disagree with that your statement.

First of all because (sample) and lookup data entry/edit is in fact part of
our everyday real life practice of application development.

Second, because Dynamic Data Entity Web Applications (DDEWA) do help
developers to verify their data modeling decisions by "effortlessly" giving
"working models" in hands of (power-)users, and when users/developers find
there are some mistakes in those decisions then DDEWA help to quickly fix
those mistakes (as you can see from referred here video you have to just
redeploy your corrected db and corresponding .edmx file and then refresh
your browser - and you'll get the new version "up & running". This practice
of verifying data modeling decisions in real life environment is also our
everyday practice but it usually takes much more efforts when done without
DDEWA. 

Third, because as I noted you can prepare within DDEWA ready to use in real
apps "code blocks" (.ascx controls etc.) while "playing with" DDEWA (again
as you can see no need to rebuild/restart the application - just refresh
your browser - well, that is a consequence of ASP.NET technology used for
DDEWA)

Fourth, as we talked here before, ADO.NET Entity Data Model will allow in
the (near) future to generate actual database models from ADO.NET Entity
models - wouldn't that become soon our everyday development practice?
(Imagine you start from use cases/user stories, develop customs classes and
business functionality based on ADO.NET Entity objects, develop unit tests,
then generate database model, develop integration tests, generate/customize
application interface... - and you're done. (of course I'm simplifying here
the real picture but IMO mainstream direction is presented correctly?))

Fifth, as we can see DDEWA user interface is generated from ADO.NET Entity
Model and this model (which is currently in the referred above case is
simply generated from database model) can be made having "Super-Entities"
modeling user interfaces' underplaying data, these "Super-Entities" can have
relations used by DDEWA to navigate between them... - IOW this is a way to
simulate real life apps user interfaces and navigation, and then "just add"
a mapping from "Super-Entities" to database entities...

...

DDEWA looks here very challenging and in the same time helpful to our
everyday development practices, not a "silver bullet" of course as we're
getting more and more complicated business tasks to automate but they
(DDEWA) promise to get out "yet another routine everyday work" from the
shoulders of developers...

Thank you.

--
Shamil 

P.S. The idea of DDEWA to generate user interface doesn't look original - we
have seen many "wizard tools" like that (I have even participated in
developing tools like that for different platforms, did you?) - but
implementation of this idea by MS folks and the ways to (re-)use this
implementation for real life apps development look very powerful, useful and
challenging from here. My five stars (*****) to MS DDEWA technology
developers.

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 2:27 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil and Charlotte

I watched that video - some challenge due to the awful soundtrack - and my
impression is that this dynamic data entities web is useful only for
creating an interface to the complete table schema - which you hardly never
use (I haven't) except for the example Shamil describes where you wish to
present the full schema as well as the data content and even offer to edit
this at close to zero efforts. I could imagine some kind of monitoring or
admin/techie interface built this way.

For any other purpose a lot of customizing is needed which - though quite
powerful, so it seems - for a decent app will take longer than building the
app from scratch I guess. 

So - as I see it - this technique has its uses but app development is not on
of these.

/gustav



From Gustav at cactus.dk  Fri Aug 21 16:28:24 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 23:28:24 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] Click-Once stopped to work on my Vista PC....
Message-ID: <sa8f2dbc.083@cactus.dk>

Hi Shamil

No, I forgot about that posting. However, I wouldn't have thought of a solution like the one you describe. Thanks for the tip (or warning)!

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 21:57 >>>
Hi All,

If you remember I have had a posting on the subject issue here - the issue
was caused by the fact that .application extension did get Notepad as
default edit program - when you set default program back to "Application
Deployment Support Library" then Click-Once does start to work well again.
The answer came from StackOverflow. 

Thank you.

--
Shamil





From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Fri Aug 21 23:04:26 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 00:04:26 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Click-Once stopped to work on my Vista PC....
In-Reply-To: <sa8f2dbc.083@cactus.dk>
References: <sa8f2dbc.083@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <4A8F6E4A.8080107@colbyconsulting.com>

So you guys are using VB.Net express?  Or C# express?

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi Shamil
> 
> No, I forgot about that posting. However, I wouldn't have thought of a solution like the one you describe. Thanks for the tip (or warning)!
> 
> /gustav
> 
> 
>>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 21:57 >>>
> Hi All,
> 
> If you remember I have had a posting on the subject issue here - the issue
> was caused by the fact that .application extension did get Notepad as
> default edit program - when you set default program back to "Application
> Deployment Support Library" then Click-Once does start to work well again.
> The answer came from StackOverflow. 
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> --
> Shamil
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 


From Gustav at cactus.dk  Sat Aug 22 02:28:48 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 09:28:48 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] Click-Once stopped to work on my Vista PC....
Message-ID: <sa8fba66.084@cactus.dk>

Hi John

No, I use VS2008 Standard Edition. Comes with the MAPS (Microsoft Action Pack Subscription) - if you pass a tiny test as described in earlier postings.

/gustav

>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 22-08-2009 06:04 >>>
So you guys are using VB.Net express?  Or C# express?

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com 


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi Shamil
> 
> No, I forgot about that posting. However, I wouldn't have thought of a solution like the one you describe. Thanks for the tip (or warning)!
> 
> /gustav
> 
> 
>>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 21:57 >>>
> Hi All,
> 
> If you remember I have had a posting on the subject issue here - the issue
> was caused by the fact that .application extension did get Notepad as
> default edit program - when you set default program back to "Application
> Deployment Support Library" then Click-Once does start to work well again.
> The answer came from StackOverflow. 
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> --
> Shamil




From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Sat Aug 22 05:14:55 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 14:14:55 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Click-Once stopped to work on my Vista PC....
In-Reply-To: <sa8f2dbc.083@cactus.dk>
References: <sa8f2dbc.083@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <001a01ca2311$66fddd90$34f998b0$@spb.ru>

Hi Gustav,

Yes, that solution, which came from StackOverflow, is awesome as one
developer noted there: if you have just get opened any .application-type
file in notepad, and you'll have "use this application as default" checkbox
checked - and it's checked by default, and nobody usually unchecks it - then
you get this weird Click-Once setup behavior when it starts correctly but
then informs you that you have improper version of .NET Framework
installed... and all you need is in fact just to set back default program
for .application type files...

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 1:28 AM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Click-Once stopped to work on my Vista PC....

Hi Shamil

No, I forgot about that posting. However, I wouldn't have thought of a
solution like the one you describe. Thanks for the tip (or warning)!

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 21:57 >>>
Hi All,

If you remember I have had a posting on the subject issue here - the issue
was caused by the fact that .application extension did get Notepad as
default edit program - when you set default program back to "Application
Deployment Support Library" then Click-Once does start to work well again.
The answer came from StackOverflow. 

Thank you.

--
Shamil



_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4357 (20090821) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru


 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4357 (20090821) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 



From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Sat Aug 22 05:14:55 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 14:14:55 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Click-Once stopped to work on my Vista PC....
In-Reply-To: <4A8F6E4A.8080107@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <sa8f2dbc.083@cactus.dk> <4A8F6E4A.8080107@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <001b01ca2311$68756260$39602720$@spb.ru>

Hi John,

No, I use VS2008 Professional.

Click-Once is one of the methods of .NET Framework applications setup.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 8:04 AM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Click-Once stopped to work on my Vista PC....

So you guys are using VB.Net express?  Or C# express?

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi Shamil
> 
> No, I forgot about that posting. However, I wouldn't have thought of a
solution like the one you describe. Thanks for the tip (or warning)!
> 
> /gustav
> 
> 
>>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 21:57 >>>
> Hi All,
> 
> If you remember I have had a posting on the subject issue here - the issue
> was caused by the fact that .application extension did get Notepad as
> default edit program - when you set default program back to "Application
> Deployment Support Library" then Click-Once does start to work well again.
> The answer came from StackOverflow. 
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> --
> Shamil
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 
_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4357 (20090821) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru


 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4357 (20090821) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 



From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Sat Aug 22 05:18:33 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 14:18:33 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications
In-Reply-To: <sa8f2d25.082@cactus.dk>
References: <sa8f2d25.082@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <001c01ca2311$e8cf5b00$ba6e1100$@spb.ru>

Hi Gustav,

I gave got one issue with DDEWA already - one of the tables "doesn't want"
to be opened/viewed - ASP.NET runtime error is reported. No clue yet how to
workaround this issue. Isn't that one of the causes Charlotte warned about
referring to her manager experience in another company?

The tables are ordered alphabetically and I wanted to get them ordered
special custom way.

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 1:26 AM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil

Yes, please post your findings please.

As for the order of the tables, isn't it just based on the enumeration in
SQL Server?

/gustav

>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 18:07 >>>
Hi Gustav --

Yes, I do know that you find ADO.NET Entity Data Model very promising.

And I only wanted to note that I find DDEWA also very promising to perform
quite some routine work we and our customers/"super-users" are doing
manually nowadays.

BTW, as far as I see/can guess DDEWA are implemented using very similar to
ASP.NET MVC Framework approach: I mean they seems to be using "some tricks"
on top of ASP.NET engine to generate on-the-fly ASP.NET controls and web
forms and "feed" ASP.NET engine using these generated web forms/controls. I
can be wrong. Just guessing...

I will continue my R&D with DDEWA and if I find something interesting I will
post this information here.

BTW, I'm currently trying to customize the order of the list of the tables
shown on the first page (Default.aspx) of my DDEWA, any ideas?

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 4:45 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil

My comments were not on the ADO.NET Entity Data Model which I find very
promising.

Your example of a "superuser" having access to the schema and full (test)
data is what I meant with a admin/techie app which I believe can be useful -
only have I never met a client which had much more than just a sense of what
the database is about.

I agree with you that dynamic data entities web tool seems to be very well
engineered.

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 13:18 >>>
Hi Gustav,

Yes, it takes "close to zero efforts" (~1 minute) to have a "web
application" for this ADO.NET entity model

http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/temp/model.jpg 

which in turn was generated from MS SQL 2005 database.

<<<
...this technique has its uses but app development is not one of these...
>>>
Gustav, let me disagree with that your statement.

First of all because (sample) and lookup data entry/edit is in fact part of
our everyday real life practice of application development.

Second, because Dynamic Data Entity Web Applications (DDEWA) do help
developers to verify their data modeling decisions by "effortlessly" giving
"working models" in hands of (power-)users, and when users/developers find
there are some mistakes in those decisions then DDEWA help to quickly fix
those mistakes (as you can see from referred here video you have to just
redeploy your corrected db and corresponding .edmx file and then refresh
your browser - and you'll get the new version "up & running". This practice
of verifying data modeling decisions in real life environment is also our
everyday practice but it usually takes much more efforts when done without
DDEWA. 

Third, because as I noted you can prepare within DDEWA ready to use in real
apps "code blocks" (.ascx controls etc.) while "playing with" DDEWA (again
as you can see no need to rebuild/restart the application - just refresh
your browser - well, that is a consequence of ASP.NET technology used for
DDEWA)

Fourth, as we talked here before, ADO.NET Entity Data Model will allow in
the (near) future to generate actual database models from ADO.NET Entity
models - wouldn't that become soon our everyday development practice?
(Imagine you start from use cases/user stories, develop customs classes and
business functionality based on ADO.NET Entity objects, develop unit tests,
then generate database model, develop integration tests, generate/customize
application interface... - and you're done. (of course I'm simplifying here
the real picture but IMO mainstream direction is presented correctly?))

Fifth, as we can see DDEWA user interface is generated from ADO.NET Entity
Model and this model (which is currently in the referred above case is
simply generated from database model) can be made having "Super-Entities"
modeling user interfaces' underplaying data, these "Super-Entities" can have
relations used by DDEWA to navigate between them... - IOW this is a way to
simulate real life apps user interfaces and navigation, and then "just add"
a mapping from "Super-Entities" to database entities...

...

DDEWA looks here very challenging and in the same time helpful to our
everyday development practices, not a "silver bullet" of course as we're
getting more and more complicated business tasks to automate but they
(DDEWA) promise to get out "yet another routine everyday work" from the
shoulders of developers...

Thank you.

--
Shamil 

P.S. The idea of DDEWA to generate user interface doesn't look original - we
have seen many "wizard tools" like that (I have even participated in
developing tools like that for different platforms, did you?) - but
implementation of this idea by MS folks and the ways to (re-)use this
implementation for real life apps development look very powerful, useful and
challenging from here. My five stars (*****) to MS DDEWA technology
developers.

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 2:27 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil and Charlotte

I watched that video - some challenge due to the awful soundtrack - and my
impression is that this dynamic data entities web is useful only for
creating an interface to the complete table schema - which you hardly never
use (I haven't) except for the example Shamil describes where you wish to
present the full schema as well as the data content and even offer to edit
this at close to zero efforts. I could imagine some kind of monitoring or
admin/techie interface built this way.

For any other purpose a lot of customizing is needed which - though quite
powerful, so it seems - for a decent app will take longer than building the
app from scratch I guess. 

So - as I see it - this technique has its uses but app development is not on
of these.

/gustav

_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4357 (20090821) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru





From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Sat Aug 22 08:20:09 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 09:20:09 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Click-Once stopped to work on my Vista PC....
In-Reply-To: <sa8fba66.084@cactus.dk>
References: <sa8fba66.084@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <4A8FF089.1010105@colbyconsulting.com>

I was also inquiring about the specific language you guys are using, VB or C#.

So what is the story in terms of compatibility between the express editions and the standard?  I 
know that there are express edition things that won't work in the standard edition (at least for VB) 
but if you don't use those can the code be worked in the standard edition environment.  IOW can a 
project be worked on in both environments.

I own the standard edition but my thought is that the express edition is free.  I know the response 
to your solicitations to work on the projects haven't been overwhelming, but if people do want to 
participate, the cost of the standard edition might be a stopper.  As an example IIRC William uses 
the free editions.

Also is there something in the standard edition that makes it a must have, capabilities that the 
express edition does not have.  Obviously there is SOMETHING.  How about the one click publishing. 
Is that unavailable in the express edition?

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi John
> 
> No, I use VS2008 Standard Edition. Comes with the MAPS (Microsoft Action Pack Subscription) - if you pass a tiny test as described in earlier postings.
> 
> /gustav
> 
>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 22-08-2009 06:04 >>>
> So you guys are using VB.Net express?  Or C# express?
> 
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com 
> 
> 
> Gustav Brock wrote:
>> Hi Shamil
>>
>> No, I forgot about that posting. However, I wouldn't have thought of a solution like the one you describe. Thanks for the tip (or warning)!
>>
>> /gustav
>>
>>
>>>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 21:57 >>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> If you remember I have had a posting on the subject issue here - the issue
>> was caused by the fact that .application extension did get Notepad as
>> default edit program - when you set default program back to "Application
>> Deployment Support Library" then Click-Once does start to work well again.
>> The answer came from StackOverflow. 
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> --
>> Shamil
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 


From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Sat Aug 22 08:40:30 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 09:40:30 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Click-Once stopped to work on my Vista PC....
In-Reply-To: <4A8FF089.1010105@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <sa8fba66.084@cactus.dk> <4A8FF089.1010105@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <4A8FF54E.1090406@colbyconsulting.com>

Never mind, I found a comparison chart.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


jwcolby wrote:
> I was also inquiring about the specific language you guys are using, VB or C#.
> 
> So what is the story in terms of compatibility between the express editions and the standard?  I 
> know that there are express edition things that won't work in the standard edition (at least for VB) 
> but if you don't use those can the code be worked in the standard edition environment.  IOW can a 
> project be worked on in both environments.
> 
> I own the standard edition but my thought is that the express edition is free.  I know the response 
> to your solicitations to work on the projects haven't been overwhelming, but if people do want to 
> participate, the cost of the standard edition might be a stopper.  As an example IIRC William uses 
> the free editions.
> 
> Also is there something in the standard edition that makes it a must have, capabilities that the 
> express edition does not have.  Obviously there is SOMETHING.  How about the one click publishing. 
> Is that unavailable in the express edition?
> 
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com
> 
> 
> Gustav Brock wrote:
>> Hi John
>>
>> No, I use VS2008 Standard Edition. Comes with the MAPS (Microsoft Action Pack Subscription) - if you pass a tiny test as described in earlier postings.
>>
>> /gustav



From Gustav at cactus.dk  Sat Aug 22 16:26:31 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 23:26:31 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] Click-Once stopped to work on my Vista PC....
Message-ID: <sa907eca.091@cactus.dk>

Hi John

C# exclusively. I found the VB.NET syntax too weird, and after having programmed in VBA (Access Basic) for a decade (and a little Pascal and Prolog before that) I decided it was time to learn something new. 

/gustav

>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 22-08-2009 15:20 >>>
I was also inquiring about the specific language you guys are using, VB or C#.





From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Sat Aug 22 16:47:52 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 17:47:52 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] SPAM-LOW: Re: Click-Once stopped to work on my Vista
 PC....
In-Reply-To: <sa907eca.091@cactus.dk>
References: <sa907eca.091@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <4A906788.5020201@colbyconsulting.com>

Thanks for the reply Gustav.

I programmed a uController in C for almost two years from 1996-1997.  I haven't done any C since 
however.  I think I will take the plunge as well.

I did a fair bit of VB.Net about two years ago but now I have to get back into .net.

I actually have an application that I am thinking of doing in .Net.  It could be done in Access but 
it is simple enough to make it a perfect "started app" for getting back into .net,  and it could 
grow big and then having it in .Net could be a real advantage.  Plus it would be sold which means 
distribution.  OneClick distribution is calling me.

;)

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi John
> 
> C# exclusively. I found the VB.NET syntax too weird, and after having programmed in VBA (Access Basic) for a decade (and a little Pascal and Prolog before that) I decided it was time to learn something new. 
> 
> /gustav
> 
>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 22-08-2009 15:20 >>>
> I was also inquiring about the specific language you guys are using, VB or C#.
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 


From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Sat Aug 22 16:52:16 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 01:52:16 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Click-Once stopped to work on my Vista PC....
In-Reply-To: <4A8FF089.1010105@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <sa8fba66.084@cactus.dk> <4A8FF089.1010105@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <002d01ca2372$d225b190$767114b0$@spb.ru>

<<<
Also is there something in the standard edition that makes it a must have,
capabilities that the 
express edition does not have.  Obviously there is SOMETHING.  How about the
one click publishing. 
Is that unavailable in the express edition?
>>>
Hi John,

I don't know - last time I checked - in the beginning of Northwind.NET
project this spring all VS 2008 professional projects were built OK under C#
2008 Express. You can try to download projects from

http://northwind.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=26600

and check if anything will not compile under C# 2008 Express.

VS - higher versions - they provide some more software development
automation features - but that should be it - after all one can develop any
kind of .NET applications using notepad.exe, .NET Framework and MS Build
(from .NET Framework SDK)  (MS Build is not even needed I suppose - AFAIK it
provides some automation of compilation of sources and of building of
executables(I can be wrong here, I don't know all the details on MS Build))
- all are free to download, to use for software development and to
distribute developed apps...

<<<
I was also inquiring about the specific language you guys are using, VB or
C#.
>>>
I prefer C#.
I'd not mind to use VB if somebody will invite me to participate in an
interesting project where VB will be selected to be the main development
language...
I'd be even more interested to participate in an project where IronRuby will
be selected as the main development language (FYI:I currently have 1%
knowledge on Ruby/IronRuby)...

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 5:20 PM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Click-Once stopped to work on my Vista PC....

I was also inquiring about the specific language you guys are using, VB or
C#.

So what is the story in terms of compatibility between the express editions
and the standard?  I 
know that there are express edition things that won't work in the standard
edition (at least for VB) 
but if you don't use those can the code be worked in the standard edition
environment.  IOW can a 
project be worked on in both environments.

I own the standard edition but my thought is that the express edition is
free.  I know the response 
to your solicitations to work on the projects haven't been overwhelming, but
if people do want to 
participate, the cost of the standard edition might be a stopper.  As an
example IIRC William uses 
the free editions.

Also is there something in the standard edition that makes it a must have,
capabilities that the 
express edition does not have.  Obviously there is SOMETHING.  How about the
one click publishing. 
Is that unavailable in the express edition?

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi John
> 
> No, I use VS2008 Standard Edition. Comes with the MAPS (Microsoft Action
Pack Subscription) - if you pass a tiny test as described in earlier
postings.
> 
> /gustav
> 
>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 22-08-2009 06:04 >>>
> So you guys are using VB.Net express?  Or C# express?
> 
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com 
> 
> 
> Gustav Brock wrote:
>> Hi Shamil
>>
>> No, I forgot about that posting. However, I wouldn't have thought of a
solution like the one you describe. Thanks for the tip (or warning)!
>>
>> /gustav
>>
>>
>>>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 21:57 >>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> If you remember I have had a posting on the subject issue here - the
issue
>> was caused by the fact that .application extension did get Notepad as
>> default edit program - when you set default program back to "Application
>> Deployment Support Library" then Click-Once does start to work well
again.
>> The answer came from StackOverflow. 
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> --
>> Shamil
> 
> 

 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4359 (20090822) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 



From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Sun Aug 23 12:46:39 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 21:46:39 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications
In-Reply-To: <001c01ca2311$e8cf5b00$ba6e1100$@spb.ru>
References: <sa8f2d25.082@cactus.dk> <001c01ca2311$e8cf5b00$ba6e1100$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <000601ca2419$ac4a8e30$04dfaa90$@spb.ru>

Hi All,

I have solved mentioned below issue by regenerating ADO.NET Entity Model:
unfortunately that seems to be the only solution now - I'm writing
unfortunately because regeneration forced me to get lost all my manual
edits. Not that a big issue as my edits were mainly "cosmetic" - if to not
count several hours, which I tried to find a workaround, which would allow
me to preserve my "cosmetic" changes...

I have also found that if I try to add new relationships to the source
database and then use DDEWA to get updated only those relationships info in
generated ADO.NET Entity Model then weird compiled errors appear, e.g.:

Error 3007: Problem in Mapping Fragments starting at lines 2291, 2985: Non-
Primary-Key column(s) [RegionId] are being mapped in both fragments to
different conceptual side 
properties - data inconsistency is possible because the corresponding
conceptual side properties can 
be independently modified.

When regenerating ADO.NET Entity Model from scratch these new relationships
do appear properly as associations and my project compilation works OK...

Etc.

All in all I have got my DDEWA working OK but my current "rule of thumb" is
to not touch/edit generated ADO.NET Entity Model to not get into trouble.

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil
Salakhetdinov
Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 2:19 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Gustav,

I gave got one issue with DDEWA already - one of the tables "doesn't want"
to be opened/viewed - ASP.NET runtime error is reported. No clue yet how to
workaround this issue. Isn't that one of the causes Charlotte warned about
referring to her manager experience in another company?

The tables are ordered alphabetically and I wanted to get them ordered
special custom way.

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 1:26 AM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil

Yes, please post your findings please.

As for the order of the tables, isn't it just based on the enumeration in
SQL Server?

/gustav

>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 18:07 >>>
Hi Gustav --

Yes, I do know that you find ADO.NET Entity Data Model very promising.

And I only wanted to note that I find DDEWA also very promising to perform
quite some routine work we and our customers/"super-users" are doing
manually nowadays.

BTW, as far as I see/can guess DDEWA are implemented using very similar to
ASP.NET MVC Framework approach: I mean they seems to be using "some tricks"
on top of ASP.NET engine to generate on-the-fly ASP.NET controls and web
forms and "feed" ASP.NET engine using these generated web forms/controls. I
can be wrong. Just guessing...

I will continue my R&D with DDEWA and if I find something interesting I will
post this information here.

BTW, I'm currently trying to customize the order of the list of the tables
shown on the first page (Default.aspx) of my DDEWA, any ideas?

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 4:45 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil

My comments were not on the ADO.NET Entity Data Model which I find very
promising.

Your example of a "superuser" having access to the schema and full (test)
data is what I meant with a admin/techie app which I believe can be useful -
only have I never met a client which had much more than just a sense of what
the database is about.

I agree with you that dynamic data entities web tool seems to be very well
engineered.

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 13:18 >>>
Hi Gustav,

Yes, it takes "close to zero efforts" (~1 minute) to have a "web
application" for this ADO.NET entity model

http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/temp/model.jpg 

which in turn was generated from MS SQL 2005 database.

<<<
...this technique has its uses but app development is not one of these...
>>>
Gustav, let me disagree with that your statement.

First of all because (sample) and lookup data entry/edit is in fact part of
our everyday real life practice of application development.

Second, because Dynamic Data Entity Web Applications (DDEWA) do help
developers to verify their data modeling decisions by "effortlessly" giving
"working models" in hands of (power-)users, and when users/developers find
there are some mistakes in those decisions then DDEWA help to quickly fix
those mistakes (as you can see from referred here video you have to just
redeploy your corrected db and corresponding .edmx file and then refresh
your browser - and you'll get the new version "up & running". This practice
of verifying data modeling decisions in real life environment is also our
everyday practice but it usually takes much more efforts when done without
DDEWA. 

Third, because as I noted you can prepare within DDEWA ready to use in real
apps "code blocks" (.ascx controls etc.) while "playing with" DDEWA (again
as you can see no need to rebuild/restart the application - just refresh
your browser - well, that is a consequence of ASP.NET technology used for
DDEWA)

Fourth, as we talked here before, ADO.NET Entity Data Model will allow in
the (near) future to generate actual database models from ADO.NET Entity
models - wouldn't that become soon our everyday development practice?
(Imagine you start from use cases/user stories, develop customs classes and
business functionality based on ADO.NET Entity objects, develop unit tests,
then generate database model, develop integration tests, generate/customize
application interface... - and you're done. (of course I'm simplifying here
the real picture but IMO mainstream direction is presented correctly?))

Fifth, as we can see DDEWA user interface is generated from ADO.NET Entity
Model and this model (which is currently in the referred above case is
simply generated from database model) can be made having "Super-Entities"
modeling user interfaces' underplaying data, these "Super-Entities" can have
relations used by DDEWA to navigate between them... - IOW this is a way to
simulate real life apps user interfaces and navigation, and then "just add"
a mapping from "Super-Entities" to database entities...

...

DDEWA looks here very challenging and in the same time helpful to our
everyday development practices, not a "silver bullet" of course as we're
getting more and more complicated business tasks to automate but they
(DDEWA) promise to get out "yet another routine everyday work" from the
shoulders of developers...

Thank you.

--
Shamil 

P.S. The idea of DDEWA to generate user interface doesn't look original - we
have seen many "wizard tools" like that (I have even participated in
developing tools like that for different platforms, did you?) - but
implementation of this idea by MS folks and the ways to (re-)use this
implementation for real life apps development look very powerful, useful and
challenging from here. My five stars (*****) to MS DDEWA technology
developers.

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 2:27 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil and Charlotte

I watched that video - some challenge due to the awful soundtrack - and my
impression is that this dynamic data entities web is useful only for
creating an interface to the complete table schema - which you hardly never
use (I haven't) except for the example Shamil describes where you wish to
present the full schema as well as the data content and even offer to edit
this at close to zero efforts. I could imagine some kind of monitoring or
admin/techie interface built this way.

For any other purpose a lot of customizing is needed which - though quite
powerful, so it seems - for a decent app will take longer than building the
app from scratch I guess. 

So - as I see it - this technique has its uses but app development is not on
of these.

/gustav





From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Sun Aug 23 15:54:31 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 00:54:31 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications
In-Reply-To: <000601ca2419$ac4a8e30$04dfaa90$@spb.ru>
References: <sa8f2d25.082@cactus.dk> <001c01ca2311$e8cf5b00$ba6e1100$@spb.ru>
	<000601ca2419$ac4a8e30$04dfaa90$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <000701ca2433$eaff91b0$c0feb510$@spb.ru>

Hi All,

While trying to move my DDEWA to my ASP.NET hosting site I have again got
some weird error messages: fortunately I have found solution of
StackOverflow:

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/689355/metadataexception-unable-to-load-t
he-specified-metadata-resource

Connection string should start with:

connectionString="metadata=res://*/;

It worked well in my case.

FYI: it could take hours and hours to find the solution by yourself - here
is one example how much time it costed to another developer:

http://forums.asp.net/p/1409590/3082930.aspx

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil
Salakhetdinov
Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 9:47 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi All,

I have solved mentioned below issue by regenerating ADO.NET Entity Model:
unfortunately that seems to be the only solution now - I'm writing
unfortunately because regeneration forced me to get lost all my manual
edits. Not that a big issue as my edits were mainly "cosmetic" - if to not
count several hours, which I tried to find a workaround, which would allow
me to preserve my "cosmetic" changes...

I have also found that if I try to add new relationships to the source
database and then use DDEWA to get updated only those relationships info in
generated ADO.NET Entity Model then weird compiled errors appear, e.g.:

Error 3007: Problem in Mapping Fragments starting at lines 2291, 2985: Non-
Primary-Key column(s) [RegionId] are being mapped in both fragments to
different conceptual side 
properties - data inconsistency is possible because the corresponding
conceptual side properties can 
be independently modified.

When regenerating ADO.NET Entity Model from scratch these new relationships
do appear properly as associations and my project compilation works OK...

Etc.

All in all I have got my DDEWA working OK but my current "rule of thumb" is
to not touch/edit generated ADO.NET Entity Model to not get into trouble.

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil
Salakhetdinov
Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 2:19 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Gustav,

I gave got one issue with DDEWA already - one of the tables "doesn't want"
to be opened/viewed - ASP.NET runtime error is reported. No clue yet how to
workaround this issue. Isn't that one of the causes Charlotte warned about
referring to her manager experience in another company?

The tables are ordered alphabetically and I wanted to get them ordered
special custom way.

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 1:26 AM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil

Yes, please post your findings please.

As for the order of the tables, isn't it just based on the enumeration in
SQL Server?

/gustav

>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 18:07 >>>
Hi Gustav --

Yes, I do know that you find ADO.NET Entity Data Model very promising.

And I only wanted to note that I find DDEWA also very promising to perform
quite some routine work we and our customers/"super-users" are doing
manually nowadays.

BTW, as far as I see/can guess DDEWA are implemented using very similar to
ASP.NET MVC Framework approach: I mean they seems to be using "some tricks"
on top of ASP.NET engine to generate on-the-fly ASP.NET controls and web
forms and "feed" ASP.NET engine using these generated web forms/controls. I
can be wrong. Just guessing...

I will continue my R&D with DDEWA and if I find something interesting I will
post this information here.

BTW, I'm currently trying to customize the order of the list of the tables
shown on the first page (Default.aspx) of my DDEWA, any ideas?

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 4:45 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil

My comments were not on the ADO.NET Entity Data Model which I find very
promising.

Your example of a "superuser" having access to the schema and full (test)
data is what I meant with a admin/techie app which I believe can be useful -
only have I never met a client which had much more than just a sense of what
the database is about.

I agree with you that dynamic data entities web tool seems to be very well
engineered.

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 13:18 >>>
Hi Gustav,

Yes, it takes "close to zero efforts" (~1 minute) to have a "web
application" for this ADO.NET entity model

http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/temp/model.jpg 

which in turn was generated from MS SQL 2005 database.

<<<
...this technique has its uses but app development is not one of these...
>>>
Gustav, let me disagree with that your statement.

First of all because (sample) and lookup data entry/edit is in fact part of
our everyday real life practice of application development.

Second, because Dynamic Data Entity Web Applications (DDEWA) do help
developers to verify their data modeling decisions by "effortlessly" giving
"working models" in hands of (power-)users, and when users/developers find
there are some mistakes in those decisions then DDEWA help to quickly fix
those mistakes (as you can see from referred here video you have to just
redeploy your corrected db and corresponding .edmx file and then refresh
your browser - and you'll get the new version "up & running". This practice
of verifying data modeling decisions in real life environment is also our
everyday practice but it usually takes much more efforts when done without
DDEWA. 

Third, because as I noted you can prepare within DDEWA ready to use in real
apps "code blocks" (.ascx controls etc.) while "playing with" DDEWA (again
as you can see no need to rebuild/restart the application - just refresh
your browser - well, that is a consequence of ASP.NET technology used for
DDEWA)

Fourth, as we talked here before, ADO.NET Entity Data Model will allow in
the (near) future to generate actual database models from ADO.NET Entity
models - wouldn't that become soon our everyday development practice?
(Imagine you start from use cases/user stories, develop customs classes and
business functionality based on ADO.NET Entity objects, develop unit tests,
then generate database model, develop integration tests, generate/customize
application interface... - and you're done. (of course I'm simplifying here
the real picture but IMO mainstream direction is presented correctly?))

Fifth, as we can see DDEWA user interface is generated from ADO.NET Entity
Model and this model (which is currently in the referred above case is
simply generated from database model) can be made having "Super-Entities"
modeling user interfaces' underplaying data, these "Super-Entities" can have
relations used by DDEWA to navigate between them... - IOW this is a way to
simulate real life apps user interfaces and navigation, and then "just add"
a mapping from "Super-Entities" to database entities...

...

DDEWA looks here very challenging and in the same time helpful to our
everyday development practices, not a "silver bullet" of course as we're
getting more and more complicated business tasks to automate but they
(DDEWA) promise to get out "yet another routine everyday work" from the
shoulders of developers...

Thank you.

--
Shamil 

P.S. The idea of DDEWA to generate user interface doesn't look original - we
have seen many "wizard tools" like that (I have even participated in
developing tools like that for different platforms, did you?) - but
implementation of this idea by MS folks and the ways to (re-)use this
implementation for real life apps development look very powerful, useful and
challenging from here. My five stars (*****) to MS DDEWA technology
developers.

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 2:27 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil and Charlotte

I watched that video - some challenge due to the awful soundtrack - and my
impression is that this dynamic data entities web is useful only for
creating an interface to the complete table schema - which you hardly never
use (I haven't) except for the example Shamil describes where you wish to
present the full schema as well as the data content and even offer to edit
this at close to zero efforts. I could imagine some kind of monitoring or
admin/techie interface built this way.

For any other purpose a lot of customizing is needed which - though quite
powerful, so it seems - for a decent app will take longer than building the
app from scratch I guess. 

So - as I see it - this technique has its uses but app development is not on
of these.

/gustav







From Gustav at cactus.dk  Sun Aug 23 16:21:09 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 23:21:09 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications
Message-ID: <sa91cef8.098@cactus.dk>

Hi Shamil

Thanks for the tip. Not an easy one to figure out!

/gustav

>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 23-08-2009 22:54 >>>
Hi All,

While trying to move my DDEWA to my ASP.NET hosting site I have again got
some weird error messages: fortunately I have found solution of StackOverflow:

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/689355/metadataexception-unable-to-load-the-specified-metadata-resource

Connection string should start with:

connectionString="metadata=res://*/;

It worked well in my case.

FYI: it could take hours and hours to find the solution by yourself - here is one example how much time it costed to another developer:

http://forums.asp.net/p/1409590/3082930.aspx 

Thank you.

--
Shamil




From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Mon Aug 24 08:27:26 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:27:26 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] FTP and email in .Net
Message-ID: <4A92953E.1000304@colbyconsulting.com>

I am looking (Google) for how to ftp and email in .Net and am not finding anything.  Is this "built 
in" or otherwise readily available?

-- 
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


From Gustav at cactus.dk  Mon Aug 24 08:40:50 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 15:40:50 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] FTP and email in .Net
Message-ID: <sa92b491.016@cactus.dk>

Hi John

I've not used FTP only mail which mostly is SMTP. Look for the System.Net.Mail library and the SmtpClient.

It works very well. We have a client with an app using this on a daily basis for more than a year using their own SMTP Service running on an in-house server, and haven't seen a single issue.

If you need code, I can probably pull some out (C#).

/gustav

PS: A bit strange you can't google for this. That's how I found out how to do.

>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 24-08-2009 15:27 >>>
I am looking (Google) for how to ftp and email in .Net and am not finding anything.  Is this "built 
in" or otherwise readily available?

-- 
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com 





From R.Griffiths at bury.gov.uk  Mon Aug 24 08:44:22 2009
From: R.Griffiths at bury.gov.uk (Griffiths, Richard)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 14:44:22 +0100
Subject: [dba-VB] FTP and email in .Net
In-Reply-To: <4A92953E.1000304@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <4A92953E.1000304@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <200908241322.n7ODMPs27534@smarthost.yourcomms.net>

Hi

Have a look at

Dim ftp As Utilities.FTP.FTPclient

Richard
-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: 24 August 2009 14:27
To: VBA
Subject: [dba-VB] FTP and email in .Net

I am looking (Google) for how to ftp and email in .Net and am not
finding anything.  Is this "built 
in" or otherwise readily available?

-- 
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com
_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com

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From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Mon Aug 24 08:50:57 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:50:57 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] FTP and email in .Net
In-Reply-To: <200908241322.n7ODMPs27534@smarthost.yourcomms.net>
References: <4A92953E.1000304@colbyconsulting.com>
	<200908241322.n7ODMPs27534@smarthost.yourcomms.net>
Message-ID: <4A929AC1.3010602@colbyconsulting.com>

Thanks Richard.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Griffiths, Richard wrote:
> Hi
> 
> Have a look at
> 
> Dim ftp As Utilities.FTP.FTPclient
> 
> Richard
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
> Sent: 24 August 2009 14:27
> To: VBA
> Subject: [dba-VB] FTP and email in .Net
> 
> I am looking (Google) for how to ftp and email in .Net and am not
> finding anything.  Is this "built 
> in" or otherwise readily available?
> 


From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Mon Aug 24 08:51:14 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:51:14 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] FTP and email in .Net
In-Reply-To: <sa92b491.016@cactus.dk>
References: <sa92b491.016@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <4A929AD2.1040201@colbyconsulting.com>

Thanks Gustav.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi John
> 
> I've not used FTP only mail which mostly is SMTP. Look for the System.Net.Mail library and the SmtpClient.
> 
> It works very well. We have a client with an app using this on a daily basis for more than a year using their own SMTP Service running on an in-house server, and haven't seen a single issue.
> 
> If you need code, I can probably pull some out (C#).
> 
> /gustav
> 
> PS: A bit strange you can't google for this. That's how I found out how to do.
> 
>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 24-08-2009 15:27 >>>
> I am looking (Google) for how to ftp and email in .Net and am not finding anything.  Is this "built 
> in" or otherwise readily available?
> 


From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Mon Aug 24 09:33:35 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 18:33:35 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] FTP and email in .Net
In-Reply-To: <4A92953E.1000304@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <4A92953E.1000304@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <002601ca24c7$e17714d0$a4653e70$@spb.ru>

Hi John,

FTT and SMPT e-maling are built-in.
FTP can be done many ways - I used System.Net.HttpWebRequest.
For SMTP e-mailing I used System.Net.Mail and related.

If you will not find ready to use samples on Internet we can "cook" some
samples for you here.

Thank you.

--
Shamil


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 5:27 PM
To: VBA
Subject: [dba-VB] FTP and email in .Net

I am looking (Google) for how to ftp and email in .Net and am not finding
anything.  Is this "built 
in" or otherwise readily available?

-- 
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com
_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


 

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database 4363 (20090824) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

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From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Mon Aug 24 12:38:52 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 21:38:52 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...
Message-ID: <003301ca24e1$c0a99060$41fcb120$@spb.ru>

Hi All,

 

I have found (I?m joking) that Russian is the most laconic language in expressing emotions and emotional states ? I mean Russian usually (always?) needs the least amount of letters to express emotions in written text/verbally ? here is one example - I have got translations from http://translate.google.com ? I can?t guarantee they are all correct. Also I?m not sure that non-Ascii letters will go well through wires ? the main purpose of this message is to test that - could be useful to know how it will work if some code samples here will have national alphabets used):

 

Russian: ????

 

English: I'm joking

Arabic:  ??? ????

Bulgarian: ?? ??? ??????

Hungarian: I'm vicc

Dutch: Ik ben een grapje

Greek: ??? ???????????

Hebrew: ??? ????

Indonesian: Aku bercanda

Spanish: Estoy bromeando

Italian: Sto scherzando

Chinese(Traditional): ?????

German: Ich scherze

Polish: Ja ?artuj?

Portugal: Estou brincando

Romanian: Eu glumesc

Serbs: ????? ??

Slovak: Ja si ?arty

Slovenes: ?alim

??????????: Ako biro

Turkish:  Ben ?aka yap?yorum ya??yorum

Ukrainian: ??????

French: Je plaisante

Hindi: ??? ???? ?? ??? ???

Croatian: ?alim se

Czech: J? si legraci

Swedish: Jag sk?mtar

Estonian: Ma nalja

Japan: ??????????

?

 

As you can see(?) in Russian you need just one word and 4 chars to write/say ?I?m joking?.

 

Thank you.

 

--

Shamil

 

P.S. Gustav, I didn?t find translation to Danish on translate.google.com ? what it is?



From max.wanadoo at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 13:02:58 2009
From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 19:02:58 +0100
Subject: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...
In-Reply-To: <003301ca24e1$c0a99060$41fcb120$@spb.ru>
References: <003301ca24e1$c0a99060$41fcb120$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <4a92d5e6.0a1ad00a.0893.0512@mx.google.com>

So?

Max
1 word, 2 letters ha!  You can't beat the British.  Ask anybody, ask the ozzies for instance...


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov
Sent: 24 August 2009 18:39
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...

Hi All,

 

I have found (I?m joking) that Russian is the most laconic language in expressing emotions and emotional states ? I mean Russian usually (always?) needs the least amount of letters to express emotions in written text/verbally ? here is one example - I have got translations from http://translate.google.com ? I can?t guarantee they are all correct. Also I?m not sure that non-Ascii letters will go well through wires ? the main purpose of this message is to test that - could be useful to know how it will work if some code samples here will have national alphabets used):

 

Russian: ????

 

English: I'm joking

Arabic:  ??? ????

Bulgarian: ?? ??? ??????

Hungarian: I'm vicc

Dutch: Ik ben een grapje

Greek: ??? ???????????

Hebrew: ??? ????

Indonesian: Aku bercanda

Spanish: Estoy bromeando

Italian: Sto scherzando

Chinese(Traditional): ?????

German: Ich scherze

Polish: Ja ?artuj?

Portugal: Estou brincando

Romanian: Eu glumesc

Serbs: ????? ??

Slovak: Ja si ?arty

Slovenes: ?alim

??????????: Ako biro

Turkish:  Ben ?aka yap?yorum ya??yorum

Ukrainian: ??????

French: Je plaisante

Hindi: ??? ???? ?? ??? ???

Croatian: ?alim se

Czech: J? si legraci

Swedish: Jag sk?mtar

Estonian: Ma nalja

Japan: ??????????

?

 

As you can see(?) in Russian you need just one word and 4 chars to write/say ?I?m joking?.

 

Thank you.

 

--

Shamil

 

P.S. Gustav, I didn?t find translation to Danish on translate.google.com ? what it is?

_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com





From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Mon Aug 24 13:15:38 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 14:15:38 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] One Click publish
Message-ID: <4A92D8CA.8060909@colbyconsulting.com>

Does the One Click thing publish the database as well for a database app?  If not, is there such a 
thing for publishing the database?

-- 
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Mon Aug 24 13:19:25 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 22:19:25 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...
In-Reply-To: <4a92d5e6.0a1ad00a.0893.0512@mx.google.com>
References: <003301ca24e1$c0a99060$41fcb120$@spb.ru>
	<4a92d5e6.0a1ad00a.0893.0512@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <003801ca24e7$6acb15a0$406140e0$@spb.ru>

?? ;) (pronounced as semi-long 'e' in 'Beatles')

One letter, one word - can you beat Russian? (I didn't yet mention here but there is a special Russian slang broadly used "in masses" here when you can use three, max four words to express everything. I must say this slang is "prohibited" to use when kids and women are around, so I'd not use it here - you can Google YouTube to hear some - Madonna before her visit here this August used one of this words in her advertisement of her coming concert on Palace Square here in St.Petersburg, in front of Hermitage (Hermitage officials and Russian Orthodox Church officials asked Madonna to not use uncensored (Russian) slang during that concert - and she didn't but as usual she behaved rather extravagant during this concert as I have seen in one of the clips (I wasn't there on Palace Square that day))...)

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:03 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...

So?

Max
1 word, 2 letters ha!  You can't beat the British.  Ask anybody, ask the ozzies for instance...


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov
Sent: 24 August 2009 18:39
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...

Hi All,

 

I have found (I?m joking) that Russian is the most laconic language in expressing emotions and emotional states ? I mean Russian usually (always?) needs the least amount of letters to express emotions in written text/verbally ? here is one example - I have got translations from http://translate.google.com ? I can?t guarantee they are all correct. Also I?m not sure that non-Ascii letters will go well through wires ? the main purpose of this message is to test that - could be useful to know how it will work if some code samples here will have national alphabets used):

 

Russian: ????

 

English: I'm joking

Arabic:  ??? ????

Bulgarian: ?? ??? ??????

Hungarian: I'm vicc

Dutch: Ik ben een grapje

Greek: ??? ???????????

Hebrew: ??? ????

Indonesian: Aku bercanda

Spanish: Estoy bromeando

Italian: Sto scherzando

Chinese(Traditional): ?????

German: Ich scherze

Polish: Ja ?artuj?

Portugal: Estou brincando

Romanian: Eu glumesc

Serbs: ????? ??

Slovak: Ja si ?arty

Slovenes: ?alim

??????????: Ako biro

Turkish:  Ben ?aka yap?yorum ya??yorum

Ukrainian: ??????

French: Je plaisante

Hindi: ??? ???? ?? ??? ???

Croatian: ?alim se

Czech: J? si legraci

Swedish: Jag sk?mtar

Estonian: Ma nalja

Japan: ??????????

?

 

As you can see(?) in Russian you need just one word and 4 chars to write/say ?I?m joking?.

 

Thank you.

 

--

Shamil

 

P.S. Gustav, I didn?t find translation to Danish on translate.google.com ? what it is?

_______________________________________________

 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4364 (20090824) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 




From Gustav at cactus.dk  Mon Aug 24 13:32:38 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 20:32:38 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...
Message-ID: <sa92f90a.022@cactus.dk>

Hi Shamil

(like Swedish ...)

Danish: Jeg sk?mter
or: Jeg joker

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 24-08-2009 19:38 >>>
Hi All,

 

I have found (I?m joking) that Russian is the most laconic language in expressing emotions and emotional states ? I mean Russian usually (always?) needs the least amount of letters to express emotions in written text/verbally ? here is one example - I have got translations from http://translate.google.com ? I can?t guarantee they are all correct. Also I?m not sure that non-Ascii letters will go well through wires ? the main purpose of this message is to test that - could be useful to know how it will work if some code samples here will have national alphabets used):

 

Russian: ????

 

English: I'm joking

Arabic:  ??? ????

Bulgarian: ?? ??? ??????

Hungarian: I'm vicc

Dutch: Ik ben een grapje

Greek: *?? ???????????

Hebrew: ??? ????

Indonesian: Aku bercanda

Spanish: Estoy bromeando

Italian: Sto scherzando

Chinese(Traditional): *****

German: Ich scherze

Polish: Ja ?artuj?

Portugal: Estou brincando

Romanian: Eu glumesc

Serbs: ????? ??

Slovak: Ja si ?arty

Slovenes: ?alim

??????????: Ako biro

Turkish:  Ben ?aka yap?yorum ya??yorum

Ukrainian: ??????

French: Je plaisante

Hindi: *** **** ** *** ***

Croatian: ?alim se

Czech: J? si legraci

Swedish: Jag sk?mtar

Estonian: Ma nalja

Japan: *?**?*????

?

 

As you can see(?) in Russian you need just one word and 4 chars to write/say ?I?m joking?.

 

Thank you.

 

--

Shamil

 

P.S. Gustav, I didn?t find translation to Danish on translate.google.com ? what it is?





From Gustav at cactus.dk  Mon Aug 24 13:37:01 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 20:37:01 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] One Click publish
Message-ID: <sa92f9fa.023@cactus.dk>

Hi John

Yes, at least for SQL Server. Some explanation here:

http://www.databasejournal.com/features/mssql/article.php/3714536/SQL-Server-2005-Express-Edition---Part-12---ClickOnce-Deployment-and-Updates.htm 

/gustav

>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 24-08-2009 20:15 >>>
Does the One Click thing publish the database as well for a database app?  If not, is there such a 
thing for publishing the database?

-- 
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com 





From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Mon Aug 24 14:06:32 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 23:06:32 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] One Click publish
In-Reply-To: <sa92f9fa.023@cactus.dk>
References: <sa92f9fa.023@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <003901ca24ed$ff506b70$fdf14250$@spb.ru>

Hi John and Gustav,

I must say, I have spent some time trying to figure out how to setup some
data(base) locally with Click-Once setup - and I just gave up because that
wasn't a work paid by a customer urging that setup and having a money to pay
for it: I mean this is a very advanced subject IMO - "Click-Once setup with
local data(base). For myself I decided to use Click-Once setup only talking
to (external) web-services or to local preinstalled MS SQL database, which
connection string is known for Click-Once app (although I didn't test how it
works) - Click-Once apps are usually having very limited access rights to
the host system they run on - IOW they run in "sandbox" - one can try to
bypass these limitations by using Code Access Security (CAS) manipulation on
runtime but again that's is an advanced subject...

...IOW Click-Once setup of apps with unlimited permissions is as dangerous
as ActiveXes setup - not recommended(?)...

"There is no free cheese in this world"

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:37 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] One Click publish

Hi John

Yes, at least for SQL Server. Some explanation here:

http://www.databasejournal.com/features/mssql/article.php/3714536/SQL-Server
-2005-Express-Edition---Part-12---ClickOnce-Deployment-and-Updates.htm 

/gustav

>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 24-08-2009 20:15 >>>
Does the One Click thing publish the database as well for a database app?
If not, is there such a 
thing for publishing the database?

-- 
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com 



 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4364 (20090824) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 



From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Mon Aug 24 14:11:24 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 23:11:24 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...
In-Reply-To: <sa92f90a.022@cactus.dk>
References: <sa92f90a.022@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <003a01ca24ee$adf63290$09e297b0$@spb.ru>

Thank you, Gustav.

--
Shamil

P.S. As far as I see most of the national alphabets letters went well through wire - something like 80% of them - let's assume that the test worked OK. Thank you.

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:33 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...

Hi Shamil

(like Swedish ...)

Danish: Jeg sk?mter
or: Jeg joker

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 24-08-2009 19:38 >>>
Hi All,

 

I have found (I?m joking) that Russian is the most laconic language in expressing emotions and emotional states ? I mean Russian usually (always?) needs the least amount of letters to express emotions in written text/verbally ? here is one example - I have got translations from http://translate.google.com ? I can?t guarantee they are all correct. Also I?m not sure that non-Ascii letters will go well through wires ? the main purpose of this message is to test that - could be useful to know how it will work if some code samples here will have national alphabets used):

 

Russian: ????

 

English: I'm joking

Arabic:  ??? ????

Bulgarian: ?? ??? ??????

Hungarian: I'm vicc

Dutch: Ik ben een grapje

Greek: *?? ???????????

Hebrew: ??? ????

Indonesian: Aku bercanda

Spanish: Estoy bromeando

Italian: Sto scherzando

Chinese(Traditional): *****

German: Ich scherze

Polish: Ja ?artuj?

Portugal: Estou brincando

Romanian: Eu glumesc

Serbs: ????? ??

Slovak: Ja si ?arty

Slovenes: ?alim

??????????: Ako biro

Turkish:  Ben ?aka yap?yorum ya??yorum

Ukrainian: ??????

French: Je plaisante

Hindi: *** **** ** *** ***

Croatian: ?alim se

Czech: J? si legraci

Swedish: Jag sk?mtar

Estonian: Ma nalja

Japan: *?**?*????

?

 

As you can see(?) in Russian you need just one word and 4 chars to write/say ?I?m joking?.

 

Thank you.

 

--

Shamil

 

P.S. Gustav, I didn?t find translation to Danish on translate.google.com ? what it is?



_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com

 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4364 (20090824) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 




From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Mon Aug 24 14:15:53 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 15:15:53 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] One Click publish
In-Reply-To: <003901ca24ed$ff506b70$fdf14250$@spb.ru>
References: <sa92f9fa.023@cactus.dk> <003901ca24ed$ff506b70$fdf14250$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <4A92E6E9.5040409@colbyconsulting.com>

Hmm....

I am looking at building an application in .Net.  This application will be used by my users but will 
also possibly be sold to companies.  Thus the application install has to somehow do an initial setup 
of a database.  As changes are made, any database changes have to be pushed along with the 
application changes.

The application will "start small and expand" so I am expecting the application and it's database to 
grow over the years.

Perhaps Click-Once is not the method for this kind of situation?

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote:
> Hi John and Gustav,
> 
> I must say, I have spent some time trying to figure out how to setup some
> data(base) locally with Click-Once setup - and I just gave up because that
> wasn't a work paid by a customer urging that setup and having a money to pay
> for it: I mean this is a very advanced subject IMO - "Click-Once setup with
> local data(base). For myself I decided to use Click-Once setup only talking
> to (external) web-services or to local preinstalled MS SQL database, which
> connection string is known for Click-Once app (although I didn't test how it
> works) - Click-Once apps are usually having very limited access rights to
> the host system they run on - IOW they run in "sandbox" - one can try to
> bypass these limitations by using Code Access Security (CAS) manipulation on
> runtime but again that's is an advanced subject...
> 
> ...IOW Click-Once setup of apps with unlimited permissions is as dangerous
> as ActiveXes setup - not recommended(?)...
> 
> "There is no free cheese in this world"
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> --
> Shamil
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
> Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:37 PM
> To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] One Click publish
> 
> Hi John
> 
> Yes, at least for SQL Server. Some explanation here:
> 
> http://www.databasejournal.com/features/mssql/article.php/3714536/SQL-Server
> -2005-Express-Edition---Part-12---ClickOnce-Deployment-and-Updates.htm 
> 
> /gustav
> 
>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 24-08-2009 20:15 >>>
> Does the One Click thing publish the database as well for a database app?
> If not, is there such a 
> thing for publishing the database?
> 


From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Mon Aug 24 15:04:08 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 00:04:08 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] One Click publish
In-Reply-To: <4A92E6E9.5040409@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <sa92f9fa.023@cactus.dk> <003901ca24ed$ff506b70$fdf14250$@spb.ru>
	<4A92E6E9.5040409@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <003b01ca24f6$0b91cde0$22b569a0$@spb.ru>

Yes, then you probably better use ordinary setup procedures: there are
special setup projects in VS, not sure they exist in C#/VB Express - please
check. But I anyway do not use these VS setup projects - I accustomed to use
INNO-Setup (free) setup scripts, which I have created once a long ago to
setup my/my customer MS Access apps, and I now use with some edits to setup
.NET apps - works pretty well for many customers and projects...

Thank you.

--
Shamil 

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 11:16 PM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] One Click publish

Hmm....

I am looking at building an application in .Net.  This application will be
used by my users but will 
also possibly be sold to companies.  Thus the application install has to
somehow do an initial setup 
of a database.  As changes are made, any database changes have to be pushed
along with the 
application changes.

The application will "start small and expand" so I am expecting the
application and it's database to 
grow over the years.

Perhaps Click-Once is not the method for this kind of situation?

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote:
> Hi John and Gustav,
> 
> I must say, I have spent some time trying to figure out how to setup some
> data(base) locally with Click-Once setup - and I just gave up because that
> wasn't a work paid by a customer urging that setup and having a money to
pay
> for it: I mean this is a very advanced subject IMO - "Click-Once setup
with
> local data(base). For myself I decided to use Click-Once setup only
talking
> to (external) web-services or to local preinstalled MS SQL database, which
> connection string is known for Click-Once app (although I didn't test how
it
> works) - Click-Once apps are usually having very limited access rights to
> the host system they run on - IOW they run in "sandbox" - one can try to
> bypass these limitations by using Code Access Security (CAS) manipulation
on
> runtime but again that's is an advanced subject...
> 
> ...IOW Click-Once setup of apps with unlimited permissions is as dangerous
> as ActiveXes setup - not recommended(?)...
> 
> "There is no free cheese in this world"
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> --
> Shamil
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
> Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:37 PM
> To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] One Click publish
> 
> Hi John
> 
> Yes, at least for SQL Server. Some explanation here:
> 
>
http://www.databasejournal.com/features/mssql/article.php/3714536/SQL-Server
> -2005-Express-Edition---Part-12---ClickOnce-Deployment-and-Updates.htm 
> 
> /gustav
> 
>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 24-08-2009 20:15 >>>
> Does the One Click thing publish the database as well for a database app?
> If not, is there such a 
> thing for publishing the database?
> 
_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4364 (20090824) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru


 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4364 (20090824) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 



From Gustav at cactus.dk  Mon Aug 24 16:18:18 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 23:18:18 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] One Click publish
Message-ID: <sa931fd9.024@cactus.dk>

Hi John and Shamil

It is not that complicated ... once you find out how. That took me quite some time because I had to both distribute the app (that's easy) and install a font (not so easy) at each workstation. Most of the bumps are due to security precautions.

I have previously posted about how to do this and the tool needed:

http://databaseadvisors.com/pipermail/dba-vb/2008-October/002037.html 

In your case you would prepare an SQL Server quiet install package and arrange that as a prerequisite for your app.

/gustav

>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 24-08-2009 21:06 >>>
Hi John and Gustav,

I must say, I have spent some time trying to figure out how to setup some
data(base) locally with Click-Once setup - and I just gave up because that
wasn't a work paid by a customer urging that setup and having a money to pay
for it: I mean this is a very advanced subject IMO - "Click-Once setup with
local data(base). For myself I decided to use Click-Once setup only talking
to (external) web-services or to local preinstalled MS SQL database, which
connection string is known for Click-Once app (although I didn't test how it
works) - Click-Once apps are usually having very limited access rights to
the host system they run on - IOW they run in "sandbox" - one can try to
bypass these limitations by using Code Access Security (CAS) manipulation on
runtime but again that's is an advanced subject...

...IOW Click-Once setup of apps with unlimited permissions is as dangerous
as ActiveXes setup - not recommended(?)...

"There is no free cheese in this world"

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:37 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] One Click publish

Hi John

Yes, at least for SQL Server. Some explanation here:

http://www.databasejournal.com/features/mssql/article.php/3714536/SQL-Server 
-2005-Express-Edition---Part-12---ClickOnce-Deployment-and-Updates.htm 

/gustav

>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 24-08-2009 20:15 >>>
Does the One Click thing publish the database as well for a database app?
If not, is there such a 
thing for publishing the database?

-- 
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com 





From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Mon Aug 24 16:18:48 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 17:18:48 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev
Message-ID: <4A9303B8.20507@colbyconsulting.com>

I am going to do a virtual machine to do my development on.  This allows me to move it around on an 
external disk between host machines.

My question is what OS would you suggest for the VM for development in .Net?  My available choices 
are XP, 2003 and Vista (and maybe Server 2008).

Also how much disk space for the virtual hard disk?

Even though I have been using Vista on my main development laptop for a couple of years, I still 
hate it, so that would not be my first choice.

Windows 2003 is a very stable environment but it is also a server OS and I have run into a lot of 
applications, PerfectDisk for example, which refuse to run on a server OS OR want you to pay 
hundreds of dollars for something that costs $50 for XP.

Which leaves me with XP which is getting long in the tooth.

Any yes, I have a copy of Server 2008 which I assume would have the same "is a server OS" issues 
that 2003 brings with it.

Any thoughts on this?

BTW I think I am going to bring up a server machine (real hardware) to run the Server 2008 license I 
have.

-- 
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


From Gustav at cactus.dk  Mon Aug 24 16:32:39 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 23:32:39 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev
Message-ID: <sa932340.025@cactus.dk>

Hi John

Vista if you ask me. Or, of course, Windows 7 when you can get hold on it.
Hanging on with Win XP is too lame.

But my primary development machine I wouldn't run in a VM.

/gustav

>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 24-08-2009 23:18 >>>
I am going to do a virtual machine to do my development on.  This allows me to move it around on an 
external disk between host machines.

My question is what OS would you suggest for the VM for development in .Net?  My available choices 
are XP, 2003 and Vista (and maybe Server 2008).

Also how much disk space for the virtual hard disk?

Even though I have been using Vista on my main development laptop for a couple of years, I still 
hate it, so that would not be my first choice.

Windows 2003 is a very stable environment but it is also a server OS and I have run into a lot of 
applications, PerfectDisk for example, which refuse to run on a server OS OR want you to pay 
hundreds of dollars for something that costs $50 for XP.

Which leaves me with XP which is getting long in the tooth.

Any yes, I have a copy of Server 2008 which I assume would have the same "is a server OS" issues 
that 2003 brings with it.

Any thoughts on this?

BTW I think I am going to bring up a server machine (real hardware) to run the Server 2008 license I 
have.

-- 
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com 





From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Mon Aug 24 16:36:26 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 01:36:26 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev
In-Reply-To: <4A9303B8.20507@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <4A9303B8.20507@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <004501ca2502$f5369dc0$dfa3d940$@spb.ru>

Hi John,

Win XP SP2 should be OK for up to .NET Framework 3.5 SP1, I'm not sure about
.NET Framework 4.0 - but I'd hope it should be OK too.

I do use Vista Ultimate as my main development PC, I do have WinXP SP2 to
test my setups, as well as I used MS Windows 2003 Server in the past and it
worked well while using it to develop .NET apps.

Windows 2008 should be probably the best choice, but it's not necessary I
suppose: as far as I understand new .NET versions just add new .NET
Framework classes and technologies, which run on top of "good old Win32API",
which didn't change that much since WinXP, and if something new comes in
windows system then that new parts should be installed OK from WinXP SP2 and
up...

I have seen customers are now starting to request .NET apps running on 64
bit machines as well as utilizing optimally multi-core systems - I do not
have that experience yet... 

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 1:19 AM
To: VBA
Subject: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev

I am going to do a virtual machine to do my development on.  This allows me
to move it around on an 
external disk between host machines.

My question is what OS would you suggest for the VM for development in .Net?
My available choices 
are XP, 2003 and Vista (and maybe Server 2008).

Also how much disk space for the virtual hard disk?

Even though I have been using Vista on my main development laptop for a
couple of years, I still 
hate it, so that would not be my first choice.

Windows 2003 is a very stable environment but it is also a server OS and I
have run into a lot of 
applications, PerfectDisk for example, which refuse to run on a server OS OR
want you to pay 
hundreds of dollars for something that costs $50 for XP.

Which leaves me with XP which is getting long in the tooth.

Any yes, I have a copy of Server 2008 which I assume would have the same "is
a server OS" issues 
that 2003 brings with it.

Any thoughts on this?

BTW I think I am going to bring up a server machine (real hardware) to run
the Server 2008 license I 
have.

-- 
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com
_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4364 (20090824) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru


 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4364 (20090824) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 



From dbdoug at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 16:46:19 2009
From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 14:46:19 -0700
Subject: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev
In-Reply-To: <4A9303B8.20507@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <4A9303B8.20507@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <4dd71a0c0908241446k303b83e6odcdf9f3cd9eeec46@mail.gmail.com>

Hi John:

My development environment is a  15GB VMWare virtual machine.  I installed
Win XP, VS2008 (C# only, I think, but all the help files), SQL Server
Express 2005, and Office 2003.  I have less than 1GB free.

Doug

On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 2:18 PM, jwcolby <jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com>wrote:

> I am going to do a virtual machine to do my development on.  This allows me
> to move it around on an
> external disk between host machines.
>
> My question is what OS would you suggest for the VM for development in
> .Net?  My available choices
> are XP, 2003 and Vista (and maybe Server 2008).
>
> Also how much disk space for the virtual hard disk?
>
>


From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Mon Aug 24 17:02:58 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 18:02:58 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev
In-Reply-To: <sa932340.025@cactus.dk>
References: <sa932340.025@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <4A930E12.6010106@colbyconsulting.com>

Gustav,

 > But my primary development machine I wouldn't run in a VM.

Why is that?  I have used VMs for this for awhile now, and I think it works well.

I have VMS Server on both of my Server 2003 machines and they have very fast processors and lots of 
memory so it makes the VM run fast and I can assign lots of memory to the VM if I need.

OTOH I have VMWare player on my Vista laptop.  While it is a fairly fast laptop it only has 4 gigs 
of RAM.

By running the VM off of a USB drive I can move it around pretty much at will.  I kind of like that.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi John
> 
> Vista if you ask me. Or, of course, Windows 7 when you can get hold on it.
> Hanging on with Win XP is too lame.
> 
> But my primary development machine I wouldn't run in a VM.
> 
> /gustav
> 
>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 24-08-2009 23:18 >>>
> I am going to do a virtual machine to do my development on.  This allows me to move it around on an 
> external disk between host machines.
> 
> My question is what OS would you suggest for the VM for development in .Net?  My available choices 
> are XP, 2003 and Vista (and maybe Server 2008).
> 
> Also how much disk space for the virtual hard disk?
> 
> Even though I have been using Vista on my main development laptop for a couple of years, I still 
> hate it, so that would not be my first choice.
> 
> Windows 2003 is a very stable environment but it is also a server OS and I have run into a lot of 
> applications, PerfectDisk for example, which refuse to run on a server OS OR want you to pay 
> hundreds of dollars for something that costs $50 for XP.
> 
> Which leaves me with XP which is getting long in the tooth.
> 
> Any yes, I have a copy of Server 2008 which I assume would have the same "is a server OS" issues 
> that 2003 brings with it.
> 
> Any thoughts on this?
> 
> BTW I think I am going to bring up a server machine (real hardware) to run the Server 2008 license I 
> have.
> 


From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Mon Aug 24 17:05:04 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 18:05:04 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev
In-Reply-To: <4dd71a0c0908241446k303b83e6odcdf9f3cd9eeec46@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4A9303B8.20507@colbyconsulting.com>
	<4dd71a0c0908241446k303b83e6odcdf9f3cd9eeec46@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A930E90.3010501@colbyconsulting.com>

ROTFL.

I have an XP VM with 30 gigs and it has about 15 gigs free.  I was worried about that small amount. 
  1 gig free would make me nervous.

I have a 7200 RPM laptop drive with 100 gigs in an external case, USB 2.0 interface.  I thought I 
would put whatever I use on that.  I like to work on my laptop and haul stuff around, and I want the 
VM to be portable between host machines.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Doug Steele wrote:
> Hi John:
> 
> My development environment is a  15GB VMWare virtual machine.  I installed
> Win XP, VS2008 (C# only, I think, but all the help files), SQL Server
> Express 2005, and Office 2003.  I have less than 1GB free.
> 
> Doug
> 
> On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 2:18 PM, jwcolby <jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com>wrote:
> 
>> I am going to do a virtual machine to do my development on.  This allows me
>> to move it around on an
>> external disk between host machines.
>>
>> My question is what OS would you suggest for the VM for development in
>> .Net?  My available choices
>> are XP, 2003 and Vista (and maybe Server 2008).
>>
>> Also how much disk space for the virtual hard disk?
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 


From cfoust at infostatsystems.com  Mon Aug 24 18:07:20 2009
From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:07:20 -0700
Subject: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev
In-Reply-To: <4A9303B8.20507@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <4A9303B8.20507@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <F55048AF7E974F429BB24597D7355EEABFADE0@INFOSERVER04.infostat.local>

You need to be sure whatever you build will install properly in Vista.
We ran into problems because we had always written to the Local Machine
in the registry.  Vista pretends to go along with that but it actually
writes to the current user, which can cause a lot of confusion when
licenses are applied.  We're trying to find a way to use an encrypted
file instead to handle licensing now.

Charlotte Foust 

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 2:19 PM
To: VBA
Subject: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev

I am going to do a virtual machine to do my development on.  This allows
me to move it around on an external disk between host machines.

My question is what OS would you suggest for the VM for development in
.Net?  My available choices are XP, 2003 and Vista (and maybe Server
2008).

Also how much disk space for the virtual hard disk?

Even though I have been using Vista on my main development laptop for a
couple of years, I still hate it, so that would not be my first choice.

Windows 2003 is a very stable environment but it is also a server OS and
I have run into a lot of applications, PerfectDisk for example, which
refuse to run on a server OS OR want you to pay hundreds of dollars for
something that costs $50 for XP.

Which leaves me with XP which is getting long in the tooth.

Any yes, I have a copy of Server 2008 which I assume would have the same
"is a server OS" issues that 2003 brings with it.

Any thoughts on this?

BTW I think I am going to bring up a server machine (real hardware) to
run the Server 2008 license I have.

-



From max.wanadoo at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 18:26:18 2009
From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 00:26:18 +0100
Subject: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...
In-Reply-To: <003801ca24e7$6acb15a0$406140e0$@spb.ru>
References: <003301ca24e1$c0a99060$41fcb120$@spb.ru>	<4a92d5e6.0a1ad00a.0893.0512@mx.google.com>
	<003801ca24e7$6acb15a0$406140e0$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <4a9321b5.0707d00a.07f0.76d4@mx.google.com>

Well actually we have quite a few single letter word.

A? as in, what?
C? as in, see I told you so"
K? as in, OK.
O! as in, Oh!
P. as in Pee.
T. as in Tea.
U. as in You.
Y. as in Why.

Bit contrived, but there we go.

Ma



-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov
Sent: 24 August 2009 19:19
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...

?? ;) (pronounced as semi-long 'e' in 'Beatles')

One letter, one word - can you beat Russian? (I didn't yet mention here but there is a special Russian slang broadly used "in masses" here when you can use three, max four words to express everything. I must say this slang is "prohibited" to use when kids and women are around, so I'd not use it here - you can Google YouTube to hear some - Madonna before her visit here this August used one of this words in her advertisement of her coming concert on Palace Square here in St.Petersburg, in front of Hermitage (Hermitage officials and Russian Orthodox Church officials asked Madonna to not use uncensored (Russian) slang during that concert - and she didn't but as usual she behaved rather extravagant during this concert as I have seen in one of the clips (I wasn't there on Palace Square that day))...)

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:03 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...

So?

Max
1 word, 2 letters ha!  You can't beat the British.  Ask anybody, ask the ozzies for instance...


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov
Sent: 24 August 2009 18:39
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...

Hi All,

 

I have found (I?m joking) that Russian is the most laconic language in expressing emotions and emotional states ? I mean Russian usually (always?) needs the least amount of letters to express emotions in written text/verbally ? here is one example - I have got translations from http://translate.google.com ? I can?t guarantee they are all correct. Also I?m not sure that non-Ascii letters will go well through wires ? the main purpose of this message is to test that - could be useful to know how it will work if some code samples here will have national alphabets used):

 

Russian: ????

 

English: I'm joking

Arabic:  ??? ????

Bulgarian: ?? ??? ??????

Hungarian: I'm vicc

Dutch: Ik ben een grapje

Greek: ??? ???????????

Hebrew: ??? ????

Indonesian: Aku bercanda

Spanish: Estoy bromeando

Italian: Sto scherzando

Chinese(Traditional): ?????

German: Ich scherze

Polish: Ja ?artuj?

Portugal: Estou brincando

Romanian: Eu glumesc

Serbs: ????? ??

Slovak: Ja si ?arty

Slovenes: ?alim

??????????: Ako biro

Turkish:  Ben ?aka yap?yorum ya??yorum

Ukrainian: ??????

French: Je plaisante

Hindi: ??? ???? ?? ??? ???

Croatian: ?alim se

Czech: J? si legraci

Swedish: Jag sk?mtar

Estonian: Ma nalja

Japan: ??????????

?

 

As you can see(?) in Russian you need just one word and 4 chars to write/say ?I?m joking?.

 

Thank you.

 

--

Shamil

 

P.S. Gustav, I didn?t find translation to Danish on translate.google.com ? what it is?

_______________________________________________

 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4364 (20090824) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 


_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com





From max.wanadoo at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 18:28:19 2009
From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 00:28:19 +0100
Subject: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev
In-Reply-To: <F55048AF7E974F429BB24597D7355EEABFADE0@INFOSERVER04.infostat.local>
References: <4A9303B8.20507@colbyconsulting.com>
	<F55048AF7E974F429BB24597D7355EEABFADE0@INFOSERVER04.infostat.local>
Message-ID: <4a93222e.0702d00a.3fae.3be7@mx.google.com>

As I keep saying, put it in User Defined Properties  in the FE and BE -
cannot be beaten - travels with the MDB and no way of seeing it.  Encrypt it
too if you want.

No Registry, no .ini, no visible signs.

Max


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust
Sent: 25 August 2009 00:07
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev

You need to be sure whatever you build will install properly in Vista.
We ran into problems because we had always written to the Local Machine
in the registry.  Vista pretends to go along with that but it actually
writes to the current user, which can cause a lot of confusion when
licenses are applied.  We're trying to find a way to use an encrypted
file instead to handle licensing now.

Charlotte Foust 

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 2:19 PM
To: VBA
Subject: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev

I am going to do a virtual machine to do my development on.  This allows
me to move it around on an external disk between host machines.

My question is what OS would you suggest for the VM for development in
.Net?  My available choices are XP, 2003 and Vista (and maybe Server
2008).

Also how much disk space for the virtual hard disk?

Even though I have been using Vista on my main development laptop for a
couple of years, I still hate it, so that would not be my first choice.

Windows 2003 is a very stable environment but it is also a server OS and
I have run into a lot of applications, PerfectDisk for example, which
refuse to run on a server OS OR want you to pay hundreds of dollars for
something that costs $50 for XP.

Which leaves me with XP which is getting long in the tooth.

Any yes, I have a copy of Server 2008 which I assume would have the same
"is a server OS" issues that 2003 brings with it.

Any thoughts on this?

BTW I think I am going to bring up a server machine (real hardware) to
run the Server 2008 license I have.

-

_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From dbdoug at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 18:31:55 2009
From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:31:55 -0700
Subject: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...
In-Reply-To: <4a9321b5.0707d00a.07f0.76d4@mx.google.com>
References: <003301ca24e1$c0a99060$41fcb120$@spb.ru>
	<4a92d5e6.0a1ad00a.0893.0512@mx.google.com>
	<003801ca24e7$6acb15a0$406140e0$@spb.ru>
	<4a9321b5.0707d00a.07f0.76d4@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <4dd71a0c0908241631o7b3bf02cl7bac65ede528ccd5@mail.gmail.com>

Isn't A for 'orses?

Doug

On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 4:26 PM, Max Wanadoo <max.wanadoo at gmail.com> wrote:

> Well actually we have quite a few single letter word.
>
> A? as in, what?
> C? as in, see I told you so"
> K? as in, OK.
> O! as in, Oh!
> P. as in Pee.
> T. as in Tea.
> U. as in You.
> Y. as in Why.
>
>


From cfoust at infostatsystems.com  Mon Aug 24 19:40:59 2009
From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 17:40:59 -0700
Subject: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev
In-Reply-To: <4a93222e.0702d00a.3fae.3be7@mx.google.com>
References: <4A9303B8.20507@colbyconsulting.com><F55048AF7E974F429BB24597D7355EEABFADE0@INFOSERVER04.infostat.local>
	<4a93222e.0702d00a.3fae.3be7@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <F55048AF7E974F429BB24597D7355EEABFADE5@INFOSERVER04.infostat.local>

We're talking .Net here, Max.  Commercial applications.  We do NOT want
them to install this on every machine they own, only licensed copies.
Their mdbs may be SQL Server and their admins have access to the data,
even though the users can't get there.  It's a little more complicated
than it sounds.  When the app was in Access, we did something in the
mdbs.  That is obsolete these days (can you say Citrix?), so we have to
move with the times.

Charlotte Foust

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 4:28 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev

As I keep saying, put it in User Defined Properties  in the FE and BE -
cannot be beaten - travels with the MDB and no way of seeing it.
Encrypt it too if you want.

No Registry, no .ini, no visible signs.

Max




From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Mon Aug 24 22:28:08 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 23:28:08 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] OT: 2008 Server drivers
Message-ID: <4A935A48.3010204@colbyconsulting.com>

I have decided to install 2008 Server Enterprise, 64 bit on one of my machines.  I am wondering what 
server 2008 "looks like", or where it comes from.  Is it 2003 based?  Vista based?

I am wondering where to go for chipset drivers.  It installed just fine and started downloading 
updates.  As I write this it appears that one of the updates (or something) caused a blue screen. 
We shall see if it blew the install out of the water.

To be honest I was impressed that the install worked at all.

-- 
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Mon Aug 24 22:58:53 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 07:58:53 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...
In-Reply-To: <4a9321b5.0707d00a.07f0.76d4@mx.google.com>
References: <003301ca24e1$c0a99060$41fcb120$@spb.ru>	<4a92d5e6.0a1ad00a.0893.0512@mx.google.com>	<003801ca24e7$6acb15a0$406140e0$@spb.ru>
	<4a9321b5.0707d00a.07f0.76d4@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <004f01ca2538$5defbfb0$19cf3f10$@spb.ru>

Max,

?? - is a full word/expression, and the ones you quoted are short-cuts, right?

The meaning of '??' could be:

A? as in, what?
C? as in, see I told you so"
O! as in, Oh!

depending on context and length of pronunciation.

But the main meaning is a bit 'rude' (sorry, I'm just joking/kidding but the main meaning below is quite correct):

?? - 'It doesn't matter for me what you're telling, I don't care at all about that, you didn't convince me, do you have stronger/more reasonable arguments? If you'll continue that way, I'll lose my patience - ?... - you'll see then what I'll do with you...'

;)

--
Shamil

P.S. Leaving this morning for a short one day break, will go to collect wild mushrooms - a kind of sport here :)...

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo
Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 3:26 AM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...

Well actually we have quite a few single letter word.

A? as in, what?
C? as in, see I told you so"
K? as in, OK.
O! as in, Oh!
P. as in Pee.
T. as in Tea.
U. as in You.
Y. as in Why.

Bit contrived, but there we go.

Ma


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov
Sent: 24 August 2009 19:19
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...

?? ;) (pronounced as semi-long 'e' in 'Beatles')

One letter, one word - can you beat Russian? (I didn't yet mention here but there is a special Russian slang broadly used "in masses" here when you can use three, max four words to express everything. I must say this slang is "prohibited" to use when kids and women are around, so I'd not use it here - you can Google YouTube to hear some - Madonna before her visit here this August used one of this words in her advertisement of her coming concert on Palace Square here in St.Petersburg, in front of Hermitage (Hermitage officials and Russian Orthodox Church officials asked Madonna to not use uncensored (Russian) slang during that concert - and she didn't but as usual she behaved rather extravagant during this concert as I have seen in one of the clips (I wasn't there on Palace Square that day))...)

---
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:03 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...

So?

Max
1 word, 2 letters ha!  You can't beat the British.  Ask anybody, ask the ozzies for instance...


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov
Sent: 24 August 2009 18:39
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...

Hi All,

 

I have found (I?m joking) that Russian is the most laconic language in expressing emotions and emotional states ? I mean Russian usually (always?) needs the least amount of letters to express emotions in written text/verbally ? here is one example - I have got translations from http://translate.google.com ? I can?t guarantee they are all correct. Also I?m not sure that non-Ascii letters will go well through wires ? the main purpose of this message is to test that - could be useful to know how it will work if some code samples here will have national alphabets used):

 

Russian: ????

 

English: I'm joking

Arabic:  ??? ????

Bulgarian: ?? ??? ??????

Hungarian: I'm vicc

Dutch: Ik ben een grapje

Greek: ??? ???????????

Hebrew: ??? ????

Indonesian: Aku bercanda

Spanish: Estoy bromeando

Italian: Sto scherzando

Chinese(Traditional): ?????

German: Ich scherze

Polish: Ja ?artuj?

Portugal: Estou brincando

Romanian: Eu glumesc

Serbs: ????? ??

Slovak: Ja si ?arty

Slovenes: ?alim

??????????: Ako biro

Turkish:  Ben ?aka yap?yorum ya??yorum

Ukrainian: ??????

French: Je plaisante

Hindi: ??? ???? ?? ??? ???

Croatian: ?alim se

Czech: J? si legraci

Swedish: Jag sk?mtar

Estonian: Ma nalja

Japan: ??????????

?

 

As you can see(?) in Russian you need just one word and 4 chars to write/say ?I?m joking?.

 

Thank you.

 

--

Shamil

 

P.S. Gustav, I didn?t find translation to Danish on translate.google.com ? what it is?


 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4364 (20090824) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 




From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Tue Aug 25 00:49:15 2009
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 15:49:15 +1000
Subject: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...
In-Reply-To: <4a9321b5.0707d00a.07f0.76d4@mx.google.com>
References: <003301ca24e1$c0a99060$41fcb120$@spb.ru>,
	<003801ca24e7$6acb15a0$406140e0$@spb.ru>,
	<4a9321b5.0707d00a.07f0.76d4@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <4A937B5B.3910.BC8709A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

B - as in Buzz of like a B, Max.
E - as in That bloke Max,  e is an ijit.
F - as in I don't really give an F about this post
G - as in Gee, is that all you can think of?
I  - as I don't really care about this post
L  - as in Wot the L as you talking about
Q - as in I wouldn't Q to see this
R - as in R you serious?

YY UR. YY UB. ICUR YY 4 ME 

or th classic Two Ronnies sketch:
http://www2.prestel.co.uk/cello/swedish.htm



On 25 Aug 2009 at 0:26, Max Wanadoo wrote:

> Well actually we have quite a few single letter word.
> 
> A? as in, what?
> C? as in, see I told you so"
> K? as in, OK.
> O! as in, Oh!
> P. as in Pee.
> T. as in Tea.
> U. as in You.
> Y. as in Why.
> 
> Bit contrived, but there we go.
> 
> Ma
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov
> Sent: 24 August 2009 19:19
> To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...
> 
> ? ;) (pronounced as semi-long 'e' in 'Beatles')
> 
> One letter, one word - can you beat Russian? (I didn't yet mention here but there is a special Russian slang broadly used "in masses" here when you can use three, max four words to express everything. I must say this slang is "prohibited" to use when kids and women are around, so I'd not use it here - you can Google YouTube to hear some - Madonna before her visit here this August used one of this words in her advertisement of her coming concert on Palace Square here in St.Petersburg, in front of Hermitage (Hermitage officials and Russian Orthodox Church officials asked Madonna to not use uncensored (Russian) slang during that concert - and she didn't but as usual she behaved rather extravagant during this concert as I have seen in one of the clips (I wasn't there on Palace Square that day))...)
> 
> --
> Shamil
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo
> Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:03 PM
> To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...
> 
> So?
> 
> Max
> 1 word, 2 letters ha!  You can't beat the British.  Ask anybody, ask the ozzies for instance...
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov
> Sent: 24 August 2009 18:39
> To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
> Subject: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...
> 
> Hi All,
> 
>  
> 
> I have found (I?m joking) that Russian is the most laconic language in expressing emotions and emotional states - I mean Russian usually (always?) needs the least amount of letters to express emotions in written text/verbally - here is one example - I have got translations from http://translate.google.com - I can?t guarantee they are all correct Also ITMm not sure that non-Ascii letters will go well through wires " the main purpose of this essage is to test that - could be useful to know how it will work if some code samples here will have national alhabets used):
> 
>  
> 
> Russian: 
> 
>  
> 
> English: I'm joking
> 
> Arabic:   
> 
> Bulgarian:   
> 
> Hungarian: I'm vicc
> 
> Dutch: Ik ben een grapje
> 
> Greek:  
> 
> Hebrew:  
> 
> Indonesian: Aku bercanda
> 
> Spanish: Estoy bromeando
> 
> Italian: Sto scherzando
> 
> Chinese(Traditional): 
> 
> German: Ich scherze
> 
> Polish: Ja zartuje
> 
> Portugal: Estou brincando
> 
> Romanian: Eu glumesc
> 
> Serbs:  
> 
> Slovak: Ja si zarty
> 
> Slovenes: Salim
> 
> : Ako biro
> 
> Turkish:  Ben saka yapiyorum yasiyorum
> 
> Ukrainian: 
> 
> French: Je plaisante
> 
> Hindi:     
> 
> Croatian: Salim se
> 
> Czech: J? si legraci
> 
> Swedish: Jag sk?mtar
> 
> Estonian: Ma nalja
> 
> Japan: 
> 
> ...
> 
>  
> 
> As you can see(?) in Russian you need just one word and 4 chars to write/say "I?m joking".
> 
>  
> 
> Thank you.
> 
>  
> 
> --
> 
> Shamil
> 
>  
> 
> P.S. Gustav, I didn?t find translation to Danish on translate.google.com - what it is?
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
>  
> 
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4364 (20090824) __________
> 
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
> 
> http://www.esetnod32.ru
>  
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 





From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Tue Aug 25 00:57:04 2009
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 15:57:04 +1000
Subject: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev
In-Reply-To: <F55048AF7E974F429BB24597D7355EEABFADE5@INFOSERVER04.infostat.local>
References: <4A9303B8.20507@colbyconsulting.com>,
	<4a93222e.0702d00a.3fae.3be7@mx.google.com>,
	<F55048AF7E974F429BB24597D7355EEABFADE5@INFOSERVER04.infostat.local>
Message-ID: <4A937D30.31885.BCF96FF@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

So use encrypted data in the BE.  You can store as much random rubbish as you want in a 
system table with various embedded nuggets of encrypted information.  Query it on startup.

If the admins touch it at all, your check code won't validate and  the system can trigger an 
alert - then they'll  have to pay for you to fix it. :-)

-- 
Stuart

On 24 Aug 2009 at 17:40, Charlotte Foust wrote:

> We're talking .Net here, Max.  Commercial applications.  We do NOT want
> them to install this on every machine they own, only licensed copies.
> Their mdbs may be SQL Server and their admins have access to the data,
> even though the users can't get there.  It's a little more complicated
> than it sounds.  When the app was in Access, we did something in the
> mdbs.  That is obsolete these days (can you say Citrix?), so we have to
> move with the times.
> 
> Charlotte Foust
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo
> Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 4:28 PM
> To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev
> 
> As I keep saying, put it in User Defined Properties  in the FE and BE -
> cannot be beaten - travels with the MDB and no way of seeing it.
> Encrypt it too if you want.
> 
> No Registry, no .ini, no visible signs.
> 
> Max
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 




From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Tue Aug 25 00:58:44 2009
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 15:58:44 +1000
Subject: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...
In-Reply-To: <004f01ca2538$5defbfb0$19cf3f10$@spb.ru>
References: <003301ca24e1$c0a99060$41fcb120$@spb.ru>,
	<4a9321b5.0707d00a.07f0.76d4@mx.google.com>,
	<004f01ca2538$5defbfb0$19cf3f10$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <4A937D94.14315.BD11EA5@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

Useful - how do you promounce it?

-- 
Stuart

On 25 Aug 2009 at 7:58, Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote:

> Max,
> 
> ? - is a full word/expression, and the ones you quoted are short-cuts, right?
> 
> The meaning of '?' could be:
> 
> A? as in, what?
> C? as in, see I told you so"
> O! as in, Oh!
> 
> depending on context and length of pronunciation.
> 
> But the main meaning is a bit 'rude' (sorry, I'm just joking/kidding
> but the main meaning below is quite correct): 
> 
> ?? - 'It doesn't matter for me what you're telling, I don't care at
> all about that, you didn't convince me, do you have stronger/more
> reasonable arguments? If you'll continue that way, I'll lose my
> patience - ?... - you'll see then what I'll do with you...' 
> 
> ;)
> 
> --
> Shamil




From Gustav at cactus.dk  Tue Aug 25 01:48:47 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 08:48:47 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev
Message-ID: <sa93a57f.028@cactus.dk>

Hi John

Because I don't move that machine around. And I like to have access to all memory available and full speed graphics.

/gustav

>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 25-08-2009 00:02 >>>
Gustav,

 > But my primary development machine I wouldn't run in a VM.

Why is that?  I have used VMs for this for awhile now, and I think it works well.

I have VMS Server on both of my Server 2003 machines and they have very fast processors and lots of 
memory so it makes the VM run fast and I can assign lots of memory to the VM if I need.

OTOH I have VMWare player on my Vista laptop.  While it is a fairly fast laptop it only has 4 gigs 
of RAM.

By running the VM off of a USB drive I can move it around pretty much at will.  I kind of like that.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com 


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi John
> 
> Vista if you ask me. Or, of course, Windows 7 when you can get hold on it.
> Hanging on with Win XP is too lame.
> 
> But my primary development machine I wouldn't run in a VM.
> 
> /gustav
> 
>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 24-08-2009 23:18 >>>
> I am going to do a virtual machine to do my development on.  This allows me to move it around on an 
> external disk between host machines.
> 
> My question is what OS would you suggest for the VM for development in .Net?  My available choices 
> are XP, 2003 and Vista (and maybe Server 2008).
> 
> Also how much disk space for the virtual hard disk?
> 
> Even though I have been using Vista on my main development laptop for a couple of years, I still 
> hate it, so that would not be my first choice.
> 
> Windows 2003 is a very stable environment but it is also a server OS and I have run into a lot of 
> applications, PerfectDisk for example, which refuse to run on a server OS OR want you to pay 
> hundreds of dollars for something that costs $50 for XP.
> 
> Which leaves me with XP which is getting long in the tooth.
> 
> Any yes, I have a copy of Server 2008 which I assume would have the same "is a server OS" issues 
> that 2003 brings with it.
> 
> Any thoughts on this?
> 
> BTW I think I am going to bring up a server machine (real hardware) to run the Server 2008 license I 
> have.






From max.wanadoo at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 13:47:45 2009
From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 19:47:45 +0100
Subject: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...
In-Reply-To: <004f01ca2538$5defbfb0$19cf3f10$@spb.ru>
References: <003301ca24e1$c0a99060$41fcb120$@spb.ru>	<4a92d5e6.0a1ad00a.0893.0512@mx.google.com>	<003801ca24e7$6acb15a0$406140e0$@spb.ru>	<4a9321b5.0707d00a.07f0.76d4@mx.google.com>
	<004f01ca2538$5defbfb0$19cf3f10$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <4a9431f5.0506d00a.27c0.ffffc160@mx.google.com>

Not rude, just the normal vernacular.

For example, I am reading a book or similar and you shout in "Hey Max, fancy a beer?". I say "What do you think I am sitting on?" and you say "..I said beer not chair you stupid old git" and I say "O". as an expression of surprise. And you then say "C", pause and say "I do put my hands in my pockets sometimes" and I say "A", pause and then say "You will have to speak up I am a bit deaf" and you say "Not deaf, daft" and I say "rollocks" 

Max


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov
Sent: 25 August 2009 04:59
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...

Max,

?? - is a full word/expression, and the ones you quoted are short-cuts, right?

The meaning of '??' could be:

A? as in, what?
C? as in, see I told you so"
O! as in, Oh!

depending on context and length of pronunciation.

But the main meaning is a bit 'rude' (sorry, I'm just joking/kidding but the main meaning below is quite correct):

?? - 'It doesn't matter for me what you're telling, I don't care at all about that, you didn't convince me, do you have stronger/more reasonable arguments? If you'll continue that way, I'll lose my patience - ?... - you'll see then what I'll do with you...'

;)

--
Shamil

P.S. Leaving this morning for a short one day break, will go to collect wild mushrooms - a kind of sport here :)...

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo
Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 3:26 AM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...

Well actually we have quite a few single letter word.

A? as in, what?
C? as in, see I told you so"
K? as in, OK.
O! as in, Oh!
P. as in Pee.
T. as in Tea.
U. as in You.
Y. as in Why.

Bit contrived, but there we go.

Ma


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov
Sent: 24 August 2009 19:19
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...

?? ;) (pronounced as semi-long 'e' in 'Beatles')

One letter, one word - can you beat Russian? (I didn't yet mention here but there is a special Russian slang broadly used "in masses" here when you can use three, max four words to express everything. I must say this slang is "prohibited" to use when kids and women are around, so I'd not use it here - you can Google YouTube to hear some - Madonna before her visit here this August used one of this words in her advertisement of her coming concert on Palace Square here in St.Petersburg, in front of Hermitage (Hermitage officials and Russian Orthodox Church officials asked Madonna to not use uncensored (Russian) slang during that concert - and she didn't but as usual she behaved rather extravagant during this concert as I have seen in one of the clips (I wasn't there on Palace Square that day))...)

---
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:03 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...

So?

Max
1 word, 2 letters ha!  You can't beat the British.  Ask anybody, ask the ozzies for instance...


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov
Sent: 24 August 2009 18:39
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...

Hi All,

 

I have found (I?m joking) that Russian is the most laconic language in expressing emotions and emotional states ? I mean Russian usually (always?) needs the least amount of letters to express emotions in written text/verbally ? here is one example - I have got translations from http://translate.google.com ? I can?t guarantee they are all correct. Also I?m not sure that non-Ascii letters will go well through wires ? the main purpose of this message is to test that - could be useful to know how it will work if some code samples here will have national alphabets used):

 

Russian: ????

 

English: I'm joking

Arabic:  ??? ????

Bulgarian: ?? ??? ??????

Hungarian: I'm vicc

Dutch: Ik ben een grapje

Greek: ??? ???????????

Hebrew: ??? ????

Indonesian: Aku bercanda

Spanish: Estoy bromeando

Italian: Sto scherzando

Chinese(Traditional): ?????

German: Ich scherze

Polish: Ja ?artuj?

Portugal: Estou brincando

Romanian: Eu glumesc

Serbs: ????? ??

Slovak: Ja si ?arty

Slovenes: ?alim

??????????: Ako biro

Turkish:  Ben ?aka yap?yorum ya??yorum

Ukrainian: ??????

French: Je plaisante

Hindi: ??? ???? ?? ??? ???

Croatian: ?alim se

Czech: J? si legraci

Swedish: Jag sk?mtar

Estonian: Ma nalja

Japan: ??????????

?

 

As you can see(?) in Russian you need just one word and 4 chars to write/say ?I?m joking?.

 

Thank you.

 

--

Shamil

 

P.S. Gustav, I didn?t find translation to Danish on translate.google.com ? what it is?


 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4364 (20090824) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 


_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com





From max.wanadoo at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 14:34:15 2009
From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 20:34:15 +0100
Subject: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev
In-Reply-To: <F55048AF7E974F429BB24597D7355EEABFADE5@INFOSERVER04.infostat.local>
References: <4A9303B8.20507@colbyconsulting.com><F55048AF7E974F429BB24597D7355EEABFADE0@INFOSERVER04.infostat.local>	<4a93222e.0702d00a.3fae.3be7@mx.google.com>
	<F55048AF7E974F429BB24597D7355EEABFADE5@INFOSERVER04.infostat.local>
Message-ID: <4a943cd9.1c07d00a.2460.4d4e@mx.google.com>

Charlotte,

With code, you can do anything you want to do, whenever, for whoever.  All
without writing to a Registry or a .ini file.

That's all I am saying.

Lets say on the FE you have code which registers itself with the BE and the
BE holds values to indicate, for example.

1.How many installed copies it will allow and details of these.
2. Howe many concurrent users are permitted and logs them on/off as they
connect to it.  Code to inform the users of what is happening (ie, sorry you
have exceeded the licenced concurrent users,  please log off".
3. Expirary date, renewal date, oh endless stuff.

And so on.

Max


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust
Sent: 25 August 2009 01:41
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev

We're talking .Net here, Max.  Commercial applications.  We do NOT want
them to install this on every machine they own, only licensed copies.
Their mdbs may be SQL Server and their admins have access to the data,
even though the users can't get there.  It's a little more complicated
than it sounds.  When the app was in Access, we did something in the
mdbs.  That is obsolete these days (can you say Citrix?), so we have to
move with the times.

Charlotte Foust

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 4:28 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev

As I keep saying, put it in User Defined Properties  in the FE and BE -
cannot be beaten - travels with the MDB and no way of seeing it.
Encrypt it too if you want.

No Registry, no .ini, no visible signs.

Max


_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From max.wanadoo at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 14:34:15 2009
From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 20:34:15 +0100
Subject: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...
In-Reply-To: <4dd71a0c0908241631o7b3bf02cl7bac65ede528ccd5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <003301ca24e1$c0a99060$41fcb120$@spb.ru>	<4a92d5e6.0a1ad00a.0893.0512@mx.google.com>	<003801ca24e7$6acb15a0$406140e0$@spb.ru>	<4a9321b5.0707d00a.07f0.76d4@mx.google.com>
	<4dd71a0c0908241631o7b3bf02cl7bac65ede528ccd5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4a943cd4.1c07d00a.2460.4d38@mx.google.com>

H is for aitch.

All cockneys know that.

Max


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele
Sent: 25 August 2009 00:32
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...

Isn't A for 'orses?

Doug

On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 4:26 PM, Max Wanadoo <max.wanadoo at gmail.com> wrote:

> Well actually we have quite a few single letter word.
>
> A? as in, what?
> C? as in, see I told you so"
> K? as in, OK.
> O! as in, Oh!
> P. as in Pee.
> T. as in Tea.
> U. as in You.
> Y. as in Why.
>
>
_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From bheid at sc.rr.com  Tue Aug 25 17:21:51 2009
From: bheid at sc.rr.com (Bobby Heid)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 18:21:51 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] [AccessD] OT: 2008 Server drivers
In-Reply-To: <4A935A48.3010204@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <4A935A48.3010204@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <002701ca25d2$7216b0d0$56441270$@rr.com>

It is my understanding that Vista (maybe Vista SP1) and 2008 share the same
code base.

Thanks,
Bobby

-----Original Message-----
From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 11:28 PM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA
Subject: [AccessD] OT: 2008 Server drivers

I have decided to install 2008 Server Enterprise, 64 bit on one of my
machines.  I am wondering what 
server 2008 "looks like", or where it comes from.  Is it 2003 based?  Vista
based?

I am wondering where to go for chipset drivers.  It installed just fine and
started downloading 
updates.  As I write this it appears that one of the updates (or something)
caused a blue screen. 
We shall see if it blew the install out of the water.

To be honest I was impressed that the install worked at all.

-- 
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com
-- 
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com




From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Wed Aug 26 08:04:15 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 09:04:15 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Dreamspark - FREE DEVELOPER SOFTWARE for students
Message-ID: <4A9532CF.1060505@colbyconsulting.com>

Yesterday I registered at my local community college for a C# class.  In talking to the teacher I 
discovered that Microsoft is giving away software to students.  In order to get the software you 
must have an email address that ends in .edu, which you would get through your school.

I am currently downloading VS 2008 Professional!

Go to:

www.dreamspark.com

Available software:

Visual Studio 2008 Professional
SQL Server 2008 Professional
Windows Server 2008 Standard
Virtual PC
Expression Studio 3
Robotics Developer Studio 2008
XNA game studio 3.1

as well as links to all of the express editions of visual studio (which is already free).  I'm not 
even sure what those last three are.

Conspicuously missing is any version of Office.  But for us developers...

The software comes as an ISO so you will have to burn it to disk or otherwise mount it on a virtual 
disk drive.

BTW AFAICT this may also be available for students "overseas" as we in the US call it.

As for Office, I think I already mentioned:

http://www.microsoft.com/student/discounts/theultimatesteal-us/default.aspx


-- 
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


From Gustav at cactus.dk  Fri Aug 28 05:18:22 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 12:18:22 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] FTP and email in .Net
Message-ID: <sa97cb24.001@cactus.dk>

Hi John et al

If you wish to test sending of e-mail without actually sending it, you'll need a dummy SMTP server or a mock.
I found a very simple one (or rather the C# code to build one) here:

  http://geekswithblogs.net/imilovanovic/archive/2004/09/27/11783.aspx 

Call it like this:

  SmtpMock smtpServerMock = new SmtpMock ();   
  smtpServerMock.Start();  
  System.Web.Mail.SmtpMail.SmtpServer = "localhost";   
  System.Web.Mail.SmtpMail.Send("somebody at foo.com", "everybody at bar.com", "This is the subject", "This is the body.");  
  smtpServerMock.Stop ();

It keeps the log in SessionProtocol.

I'll test this at a later occasion.

/gustav


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 5:27 PM
To: VBA
Subject: [dba-VB] FTP and email in .Net

I am looking (Google) for how to ftp and email in .Net and am not finding anything.  Is this "built in" or otherwise readily available?

-- 
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com 





From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Fri Aug 28 08:11:18 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 09:11:18 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
Message-ID: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>

I am looking at doing an application in C# that needs to be able to run on user systems around the 
country, but manipulate data in a common location.  IOW employees can be anywhere, running this 
program on their machine, but reading / writing data to a central server.

It is a fairly simple application in terms of the data, a hand full of fairly stable and short list 
tables that feed combos, and a couple of "log" kind of tables that document processes.  It would be 
nice to have access to a fairly complex directory structure containing data files that need to be 
imported by and exported from this program.  Again these files are small, less than a thousand lines 
of data, fixed width or CSV.  I am looking at the files now and the largest appear to be 80K or so.

I am thinking that a VPN tunnel to allow access to the data directories, which are then mapped to a 
drive on the local workstation.  Some kind of data store on the server, perhaps SQL Server Express. 
  A local data store to do the import into, manipulation / cleanup of data, export back to files on 
the remote server directory structure.

I am wondering if you guys have experience in setting up this kind of a server and application to 
work on such a server.

-- 
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


From ebarro at verizon.net  Fri Aug 28 08:54:25 2009
From: ebarro at verizon.net (Eric Barro)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 06:54:25 -0700
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <A0EE8D558F30475DA302FCEDB2F81D4F@advancedinput.com>

John,

This is a good candidate for a web service. A web service allows you to
expose certain methods to client machines outside the network.

1. Basically in terms of servers you will need a web server and a database
server (one physical server is possible but two are better due to security
issues).
2. The web server exposes the web service application and takes care of
authentication to the database server. The web server is the only one that
is publicly accessible from the outside.

This saves you from having to set up VPN client software on the client
machines and also saves you from having to purchase hardware to run the VPN
on the server side.

Eric


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 6:11 AM
To: VBA
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet

I am looking at doing an application in C# that needs to be able to run on
user systems around the country, but manipulate data in a common location.
IOW employees can be anywhere, running this program on their machine, but
reading / writing data to a central server.

It is a fairly simple application in terms of the data, a hand full of
fairly stable and short list tables that feed combos, and a couple of "log"
kind of tables that document processes.  It would be nice to have access to
a fairly complex directory structure containing data files that need to be
imported by and exported from this program.  Again these files are small,
less than a thousand lines of data, fixed width or CSV.  I am looking at the
files now and the largest appear to be 80K or so.

I am thinking that a VPN tunnel to allow access to the data directories,
which are then mapped to a drive on the local workstation.  Some kind of
data store on the server, perhaps SQL Server Express. 
  A local data store to do the import into, manipulation / cleanup of data,
export back to files on the remote server directory structure.

I am wondering if you guys have experience in setting up this kind of a
server and application to work on such a server.

--
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com
_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From Gustav at cactus.dk  Fri Aug 28 09:04:50 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 16:04:50 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
Message-ID: <sa98004c.008@cactus.dk>

Hi John

A well-proven method would be to read and write these files from/to an FTP server.
Another method is to store the files as fields in an SQL Server.

Both of these methods, however, may run into trouble meeting clients' firewalls and won't work at all if the server is off-line.

A novel approach would be store them at Amazon Web Services. This is incredible cheap and frees you from running a central server of any kind.

Finally, like Eric tells, the probably fastest method to setup is a web service - could be hosted anywhere.
The VPN method and shared drives I would only recommend for a corporate setup.

It could be interesting following your considerations and solution for the project.

/gustav


>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-08-2009 15:11 >>>
I am looking at doing an application in C# that needs to be able to run on user systems around the 
country, but manipulate data in a common location.  IOW employees can be anywhere, running this 
program on their machine, but reading / writing data to a central server.

It is a fairly simple application in terms of the data, a hand full of fairly stable and short list 
tables that feed combos, and a couple of "log" kind of tables that document processes.  It would be 
nice to have access to a fairly complex directory structure containing data files that need to be 
imported by and exported from this program.  Again these files are small, less than a thousand lines 
of data, fixed width or CSV.  I am looking at the files now and the largest appear to be 80K or so.

I am thinking that a VPN tunnel to allow access to the data directories, which are then mapped to a 
drive on the local workstation.  Some kind of data store on the server, perhaps SQL Server Express. 
  A local data store to do the import into, manipulation / cleanup of data, export back to files on 
the remote server directory structure.

I am wondering if you guys have experience in setting up this kind of a server and application to 
work on such a server.

-- 
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com 





From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Fri Aug 28 10:43:03 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 11:43:03 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <A0EE8D558F30475DA302FCEDB2F81D4F@advancedinput.com>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>
	<A0EE8D558F30475DA302FCEDB2F81D4F@advancedinput.com>
Message-ID: <4A97FB07.9090701@colbyconsulting.com>

Eric,

Thanks for the response.  I assume you are discussing a "browser based application"?

If so there are a couple of issues that I see.
1) I would have to learn a whole new paradigm from scratch.
2) Multi-user issues.

The client is a SOHO with "employees" consisting mostly of family members, who would work from their 
homes.  I understand the "setup" issues but at least for now that would be a very small number of 
machines.  I just talked to the client and, for example, he has two production scanners, one in CT 
and the other in Nashville.  It would be nice for each scanner to drop the scanned files (CSV files) 
into a common directory structure in the office in CT.  The program would then pull the CSVs across 
the internet into the local instance wherever that might be, import it into a local data store, 
process the data, then export the tables back out into a fixed width file back in the same server 
(different path) that the CSV came from.

You get the picture.  The thing that might make this work is that the files are tiny, 80 kb is the 
biggest I have seen so far.  I am actually looking at installing Hamachi on each of his "satellite 
offices" PCs, and building a virtual network around that Hamachi client.

I don't contend that this solution works for a huge system but not every system is huge!  And if it 
gets huge then the money will be there to support hardware VPNs etc.  Or even a port to a web 
service at that point.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Eric Barro wrote:
> John,
> 
> This is a good candidate for a web service. A web service allows you to
> expose certain methods to client machines outside the network.
> 
> 1. Basically in terms of servers you will need a web server and a database
> server (one physical server is possible but two are better due to security
> issues).
> 2. The web server exposes the web service application and takes care of
> authentication to the database server. The web server is the only one that
> is publicly accessible from the outside.
> 
> This saves you from having to set up VPN client software on the client
> machines and also saves you from having to purchase hardware to run the VPN
> on the server side.
> 
> Eric



From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Fri Aug 28 11:19:23 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 12:19:23 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <sa98004c.008@cactus.dk>
References: <sa98004c.008@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <4A98038B.9060806@colbyconsulting.com>

Gustav,

I have been working with this client refactoring the existing application.  It is in Access, and 
works entirely local to his SOHO.  In fact ATM he only has one or two computers running the 
application.  It has a single form about 10 fields, about 10 tables feeding combos and such.

He scans documents received from his clients, using Omnipage.  The user manually selects areas of 
documents and converts those to tables, the Omnipage software does that.  The documents are 
converted to CSV files and stored in a rather elaborate directory structure, probably about 150 
directories total.  Each directory can hold scans of many different documents.  That is all "front 
end" processing and the application is not CURRENTLY involved in that.

The application then imports each document, corrects scan errors, the user potentially manually 
edits fields in specific records if there is an OCR error where the fixit code didn't fix it.  The 
user does some analysis of the data.  Once satisfied with the edits, the data is exported back to a 
fixed width file which is a government specified format.  Those files are returned to his clients.

The application is really simple.  But he does want to be able to have several scanners in remote 
locations doing the scanning, and several instances of the application doing the conversion of the 
CSVs, and writing back to this fixed width file format, all reads / writes to a central location.

I think a simple Hamachi VPN is going to do the trick.  Being a SOHO and satellites in his kid's 
homes, corporate firewalls are less of an issue.  What is an issue is cost and complexity.  He and I 
ARE the IT department, and in the future IT will mostly be me.

So far what I have done for him has impressed.  He has another application planned which could be 
for sale.  That would be larger, would have to be more robust and a web application might be in 
order.  Even there though it appears that his clients are often smallish companies that might not 
have IT staff or not a big IT staff.

So I am coming up to speed on .net, C# etc in order to meet the future.  I think that this first app 
doesn't really NEED C#, it could be done totally in Access (it currently is in Access).  I do think 
that C# would be more robust and easier to update, upgrade and would handle some of the possible 
issues with talking to a centralized SQL Server instance a little easier.  If I have to go unbound / 
disconnected I might as well do it in C# or a cousin.

So I thought I would port it "for free".  Once the C# version does what the Access version already 
does and the client signs off on it, then I would go back to paid work on future stuff.  I need a 
live app in .Net to get me in Visual Studio on a daily basis.  I have done a fair amount of VB.Net 
stuff but without a reason to keep at it, it tends to be dropped after awhile.

 > A well-proven method would be to read and write these files from/to an FTP server.

I could certainly do that.  In fact I have to determine that Hamachi is actually capable to begin 
with, otherwise I will be back to casting around for solutions, and FTP might be the solution.

 > Another method is to store the files as fields in an SQL Server.

This is a great idea.  A simple application could monitor the directories and automatically open the 
files and import them into SQL Server.  Once in SQL Server, the current application would process 
SQL Server records instead of CSV files.  Likewise exporting the records back to the fixed width 
files for return to the client.

I will definitely have to keep that in mind.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi John
> 
> A well-proven method would be to read and write these files from/to an FTP server.
> Another method is to store the files as fields in an SQL Server.
> 
> Both of these methods, however, may run into trouble meeting clients' firewalls and won't work at all if the server is off-line.
> 
> A novel approach would be store them at Amazon Web Services. This is incredible cheap and frees you from running a central server of any kind.
> 
> Finally, like Eric tells, the probably fastest method to setup is a web service - could be hosted anywhere.
> The VPN method and shared drives I would only recommend for a corporate setup.
> 
> It could be interesting following your considerations and solution for the project.
> 
> /gustav



From Gustav at cactus.dk  Fri Aug 28 11:49:22 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 18:49:22 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
Message-ID: <sa9826c0.009@cactus.dk>

Hi John

OK, that gives a better picture. This is not a "corporate" project.

If you almost have the application running in Access, a close to zero cost (wild?) option would be to establish a shared drive with the Gladinet Cloud Desktop:

  http://www.gladinet.com 

which creates a local drive from one of these storage options:

Amazon Simple Storage Service (S3)
Google Picasa* Program
Google Docs* Program
Folders from Remote PCs - Standard Version only

Monthly costs at these remote storages are either free or extremely low.
One issue would be the sharing of single files but - if stored as discrete files - you will have to manage this somehow no matter what solution you decide for.

/gustav


>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-08-2009 18:19 >>>
Gustav,

I have been working with this client refactoring the existing application.  It is in Access, and 
works entirely local to his SOHO.  In fact ATM he only has one or two computers running the 
application.  It has a single form about 10 fields, about 10 tables feeding combos and such.

He scans documents received from his clients, using Omnipage.  The user manually selects areas of 
documents and converts those to tables, the Omnipage software does that.  The documents are 
converted to CSV files and stored in a rather elaborate directory structure, probably about 150 
directories total.  Each directory can hold scans of many different documents.  That is all "front 
end" processing and the application is not CURRENTLY involved in that.

The application then imports each document, corrects scan errors, the user potentially manually 
edits fields in specific records if there is an OCR error where the fixit code didn't fix it.  The 
user does some analysis of the data.  Once satisfied with the edits, the data is exported back to a 
fixed width file which is a government specified format.  Those files are returned to his clients.

The application is really simple.  But he does want to be able to have several scanners in remote 
locations doing the scanning, and several instances of the application doing the conversion of the 
CSVs, and writing back to this fixed width file format, all reads / writes to a central location.

I think a simple Hamachi VPN is going to do the trick.  Being a SOHO and satellites in his kid's 
homes, corporate firewalls are less of an issue.  What is an issue is cost and complexity.  He and I 
ARE the IT department, and in the future IT will mostly be me.

So far what I have done for him has impressed.  He has another application planned which could be 
for sale.  That would be larger, would have to be more robust and a web application might be in 
order.  Even there though it appears that his clients are often smallish companies that might not 
have IT staff or not a big IT staff.

So I am coming up to speed on .net, C# etc in order to meet the future.  I think that this first app 
doesn't really NEED C#, it could be done totally in Access (it currently is in Access).  I do think 
that C# would be more robust and easier to update, upgrade and would handle some of the possible 
issues with talking to a centralized SQL Server instance a little easier.  If I have to go unbound / 
disconnected I might as well do it in C# or a cousin.

So I thought I would port it "for free".  Once the C# version does what the Access version already 
does and the client signs off on it, then I would go back to paid work on future stuff.  I need a 
live app in .Net to get me in Visual Studio on a daily basis.  I have done a fair amount of VB.Net 
stuff but without a reason to keep at it, it tends to be dropped after awhile.

 > A well-proven method would be to read and write these files from/to an FTP server.

I could certainly do that.  In fact I have to determine that Hamachi is actually capable to begin 
with, otherwise I will be back to casting around for solutions, and FTP might be the solution.

 > Another method is to store the files as fields in an SQL Server.

This is a great idea.  A simple application could monitor the directories and automatically open the 
files and import them into SQL Server.  Once in SQL Server, the current application would process 
SQL Server records instead of CSV files.  Likewise exporting the records back to the fixed width 
files for return to the client.

I will definitely have to keep that in mind.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com 


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi John
> 
> A well-proven method would be to read and write these files from/to an FTP server.
> Another method is to store the files as fields in an SQL Server.
> 
> Both of these methods, however, may run into trouble meeting clients' firewalls and won't work at all if the server is off-line.
> 
> A novel approach would be store them at Amazon Web Services. This is incredible cheap and frees you from running a central server of any kind.
> 
> Finally, like Eric tells, the probably fastest method to setup is a web service - could be hosted anywhere.
> The VPN method and shared drives I would only recommend for a corporate setup.
> 
> It could be interesting following your considerations and solution for the project.
> 
> /gustav




From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Fri Aug 28 12:43:18 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 13:43:18 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] SPAM-LOW:  Re:  Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <sa9826c0.009@cactus.dk>
References: <sa9826c0.009@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <4A981736.6050900@colbyconsulting.com>

Gustav,

I have Hamachi already in place on the client's server as well as my system.  I routinely remote 
desktop in to his machine already.  I had set up the path to the data files (in / out) as a SysVar 
and so I mapped his remote database directory (on his server) to y: on my dev machine here at my 
office and changed my sysvar to point to the new location.

I then ran the existing Access application.  I set up my timer class to time the import, which uses 
a simple docmd.transfertext to pull the data from the CSV file into a first stage processing table.

Looking at five different runs, the time to import 835 records from a CSV file into a local table, 
across the internet using Hamachi is

Import From File took 72915 Milliseconds
Cleanup of raw data took 2354 Milliseconds
Import From File took 59250 Milliseconds
Cleanup of raw data took 4319 Milliseconds
Import From File took 23369 Milliseconds
Cleanup of raw data took 3307 Milliseconds
Import From File took 23354 Milliseconds
Cleanup of raw data took 3447 Milliseconds
Import From File took 23353 Milliseconds
Cleanup of raw data took 3181 Milliseconds

I had done a couple of runs before I set up the timer and the times there were approximately 24 
seconds as well.  So the "normal" time is around 24 seconds, but it can be quite lengthy as you can 
see, 73 seconds in the worst case so far.

What was going on during those longer time imports is unknown.  The server is being used to store 
these scan files as well as process them.  OTOH the server is also a 750 mhz pentium machine, pretty 
slow as servers go.  We have a new server ready to go online.

And of course this assumes fast internet at both ends.

I also built a button to allow them to open the source CSV files in notepad.  That only took

Time to open the file in Notepad 4930 Milliseconds
Time to open the file in Notepad 4290 Milliseconds
Time to open the file in Notepad 2855 Milliseconds
Time to open the file in Notepad 4274 Milliseconds

So obviously the import process itself is taking a fair amount of time.

Anyway... I would guess that for a small company like this, a Hamachi VPN to a central server is 
going to work quite well.  Low cost, reasonably fast, and easy to set up.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi John
> 
> OK, that gives a better picture. This is not a "corporate" project.
> 
> If you almost have the application running in Access, a close to zero cost (wild?) option would be to establish a shared drive with the Gladinet Cloud Desktop:
> 
>   http://www.gladinet.com 
> 
> which creates a local drive from one of these storage options:
> 
> Amazon Simple Storage Service (S3)
> Google Picasa* Program
> Google Docs* Program
> Folders from Remote PCs - Standard Version only
> 
> Monthly costs at these remote storages are either free or extremely low.
> One issue would be the sharing of single files but - if stored as discrete files - you will have to manage this somehow no matter what solution you decide for.
> 
> /gustav



From Gustav at cactus.dk  Fri Aug 28 13:31:00 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 20:31:00 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
Message-ID: <sa983eac.012@cactus.dk>

Hi John

That seems a bit slow to me but when it is set up and running and the price is right it should be fine - I mean, 73 seconds, should it matter?

/gustav


>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-08-2009 19:43 >>>
Gustav,

I have Hamachi already in place on the client's server as well as my system.  I routinely remote 
desktop in to his machine already.  I had set up the path to the data files (in / out) as a SysVar 
and so I mapped his remote database directory (on his server) to y: on my dev machine here at my 
office and changed my sysvar to point to the new location.

I then ran the existing Access application.  I set up my timer class to time the import, which uses 
a simple docmd.transfertext to pull the data from the CSV file into a first stage processing table.

Looking at five different runs, the time to import 835 records from a CSV file into a local table, 
across the internet using Hamachi is

Import From File took 72915 Milliseconds
Cleanup of raw data took 2354 Milliseconds
Import From File took 59250 Milliseconds
Cleanup of raw data took 4319 Milliseconds
Import From File took 23369 Milliseconds
Cleanup of raw data took 3307 Milliseconds
Import From File took 23354 Milliseconds
Cleanup of raw data took 3447 Milliseconds
Import From File took 23353 Milliseconds
Cleanup of raw data took 3181 Milliseconds

I had done a couple of runs before I set up the timer and the times there were approximately 24 
seconds as well.  So the "normal" time is around 24 seconds, but it can be quite lengthy as you can 
see, 73 seconds in the worst case so far.

What was going on during those longer time imports is unknown.  The server is being used to store 
these scan files as well as process them.  OTOH the server is also a 750 mhz pentium machine, pretty 
slow as servers go.  We have a new server ready to go online.

And of course this assumes fast internet at both ends.

I also built a button to allow them to open the source CSV files in notepad.  That only took

Time to open the file in Notepad 4930 Milliseconds
Time to open the file in Notepad 4290 Milliseconds
Time to open the file in Notepad 2855 Milliseconds
Time to open the file in Notepad 4274 Milliseconds

So obviously the import process itself is taking a fair amount of time.

Anyway... I would guess that for a small company like this, a Hamachi VPN to a central server is 
going to work quite well.  Low cost, reasonably fast, and easy to set up.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com 


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi John
> 
> OK, that gives a better picture. This is not a "corporate" project.
> 
> If you almost have the application running in Access, a close to zero cost (wild?) option would be to establish a shared drive with the Gladinet Cloud Desktop:
> 
>   http://www.gladinet.com 
> 
> which creates a local drive from one of these storage options:
> 
> Amazon Simple Storage Service (S3)
> Google Picasa* Program
> Google Docs* Program
> Folders from Remote PCs - Standard Version only
> 
> Monthly costs at these remote storages are either free or extremely low.
> One issue would be the sharing of single files but - if stored as discrete files - you will have to manage this somehow no matter what solution you decide for.
> 
> /gustav





From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Fri Aug 28 14:08:51 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:08:51 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] SPAM-LOW:  Re:  Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <sa983eac.012@cactus.dk>
References: <sa983eac.012@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <4A982B43.60402@colbyconsulting.com>

Especially if 24 seconds is the "norm".  Yea, that's not real time but it is over the internet, and 
it is the most complex file handled so far.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi John
> 
> That seems a bit slow to me but when it is set up and running and the price is right it should be fine - I mean, 73 seconds, should it matter?
> 
> /gustav
> 
> 
>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-08-2009 19:43 >>>
> Gustav,
> 
> I have Hamachi already in place on the client's server as well as my system.  I routinely remote 
> desktop in to his machine already.  I had set up the path to the data files (in / out) as a SysVar 
> and so I mapped his remote database directory (on his server) to y: on my dev machine here at my 
> office and changed my sysvar to point to the new location.
> 
> I then ran the existing Access application.  I set up my timer class to time the import, which uses 
> a simple docmd.transfertext to pull the data from the CSV file into a first stage processing table.
> 
> Looking at five different runs, the time to import 835 records from a CSV file into a local table, 
> across the internet using Hamachi is
> 
> Import From File took 72915 Milliseconds
> Cleanup of raw data took 2354 Milliseconds
> Import From File took 59250 Milliseconds
> Cleanup of raw data took 4319 Milliseconds
> Import From File took 23369 Milliseconds
> Cleanup of raw data took 3307 Milliseconds
> Import From File took 23354 Milliseconds
> Cleanup of raw data took 3447 Milliseconds
> Import From File took 23353 Milliseconds
> Cleanup of raw data took 3181 Milliseconds
> 
> I had done a couple of runs before I set up the timer and the times there were approximately 24 
> seconds as well.  So the "normal" time is around 24 seconds, but it can be quite lengthy as you can 
> see, 73 seconds in the worst case so far.
> 
> What was going on during those longer time imports is unknown.  The server is being used to store 
> these scan files as well as process them.  OTOH the server is also a 750 mhz pentium machine, pretty 
> slow as servers go.  We have a new server ready to go online.
> 
> And of course this assumes fast internet at both ends.
> 
> I also built a button to allow them to open the source CSV files in notepad.  That only took
> 
> Time to open the file in Notepad 4930 Milliseconds
> Time to open the file in Notepad 4290 Milliseconds
> Time to open the file in Notepad 2855 Milliseconds
> Time to open the file in Notepad 4274 Milliseconds
> 
> So obviously the import process itself is taking a fair amount of time.
> 
> Anyway... I would guess that for a small company like this, a Hamachi VPN to a central server is 
> going to work quite well.  Low cost, reasonably fast, and easy to set up.
> 
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com 



From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Fri Aug 28 14:29:59 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:29:59 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] SPAM-LOW:  Re:  Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <sa983eac.012@cactus.dk>
References: <sa983eac.012@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <4A983037.50105@colbyconsulting.com>

Gustav,

I created a shared directory on my "new" Windows 2008 server and copied the data file directory 
structure to there.  I then remoted in to the client's machine, mapped that new directory on my 
server back to my client's machine drive Y.  Copied my latest version of the FE to his machine and 
ran.

I am therefore now running the application on his server where I do dev work for him when not 
developing on my machine in my office.  I have mapped a directory on my server over Hamachi to Y: on 
that server in his office.  Running the same code:

Time to open the file in Notepad 2156 Milliseconds
Time to open the file in Notepad 500 Milliseconds
Time to open the file in Notepad 594 Milliseconds

Import From File took 5000 Milliseconds
Cleanup of raw data took 3750 Milliseconds
Import From File took 5016 Milliseconds
Cleanup of raw data took 3390 Milliseconds
Import From File took 4531 Milliseconds
Cleanup of raw data took 9031 Milliseconds
Import From File took 4547 Milliseconds
Cleanup of raw data took 3094 Milliseconds

As you can see, my times for the import process is now MUCH faster.  The file server is now hosted 
on my quad core (2 ghz real clock AMD) with 8 gigs of ram running Windows 2008.  BTW My upload speed 
(out of my office to the internet) is not particularly blazing at .5 mbit / second.

I have to conclude that the bottleneck is the server processing speed.  When I was running the app 
on my laptop accessing data at his office, the server was a single core Pentium III 500 mhz machine 
(just checked) running Windows XP SP3 and 256 MB of ram.

Obviously having a new server at his end will help!

I think these numbers are suddenly very usable.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi John
> 
> That seems a bit slow to me but when it is set up and running and the price is right it should be fine - I mean, 73 seconds, should it matter?
> 
> /gustav
> 
> 
>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-08-2009 19:43 >>>
> Gustav,
> 
> I have Hamachi already in place on the client's server as well as my system.  I routinely remote 
> desktop in to his machine already.  I had set up the path to the data files (in / out) as a SysVar 
> and so I mapped his remote database directory (on his server) to y: on my dev machine here at my 
> office and changed my sysvar to point to the new location.
> 
> I then ran the existing Access application.  I set up my timer class to time the import, which uses 
> a simple docmd.transfertext to pull the data from the CSV file into a first stage processing table.
> 
> Looking at five different runs, the time to import 835 records from a CSV file into a local table, 
> across the internet using Hamachi is
> 
> Import From File took 72915 Milliseconds
> Cleanup of raw data took 2354 Milliseconds
> Import From File took 59250 Milliseconds
> Cleanup of raw data took 4319 Milliseconds
> Import From File took 23369 Milliseconds
> Cleanup of raw data took 3307 Milliseconds
> Import From File took 23354 Milliseconds
> Cleanup of raw data took 3447 Milliseconds
> Import From File took 23353 Milliseconds
> Cleanup of raw data took 3181 Milliseconds
> 
> I had done a couple of runs before I set up the timer and the times there were approximately 24 
> seconds as well.  So the "normal" time is around 24 seconds, but it can be quite lengthy as you can 
> see, 73 seconds in the worst case so far.
> 
> What was going on during those longer time imports is unknown.  The server is being used to store 
> these scan files as well as process them.  OTOH the server is also a 750 mhz pentium machine, pretty 
> slow as servers go.  We have a new server ready to go online.
> 
> And of course this assumes fast internet at both ends.
> 
> I also built a button to allow them to open the source CSV files in notepad.  That only took
> 
> Time to open the file in Notepad 4930 Milliseconds
> Time to open the file in Notepad 4290 Milliseconds
> Time to open the file in Notepad 2855 Milliseconds
> Time to open the file in Notepad 4274 Milliseconds
> 
> So obviously the import process itself is taking a fair amount of time.
> 
> Anyway... I would guess that for a small company like this, a Hamachi VPN to a central server is 
> going to work quite well.  Low cost, reasonably fast, and easy to set up.
> 
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com 



From john at winhaven.net  Sat Aug 29 12:32:59 2009
From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 12:32:59 -0500
Subject: [dba-VB] Test2
Message-ID: <00bf01ca28ce$c15779f0$44066dd0$@net>

Test2

No trees were killed in the sending of this message, but a large number of
electrons were terribly inconvenienced.




From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Sat Aug 29 13:19:04 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 22:19:04 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <A0EE8D558F30475DA302FCEDB2F81D4F@advancedinput.com>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>
	<A0EE8D558F30475DA302FCEDB2F81D4F@advancedinput.com>
Message-ID: <002101ca28d5$3357af10$9a070d30$@spb.ru>

Yes, web service would be a good solution here.

I have made a test web service, which is located here:

http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx


You can test it using this code (c#):

using System;

namespace WebServiceDirectTestConsole
{
    class Program
    {
        //
        // Add ASP.NET 2.0 web service reference:
        //
http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx
        //
        static void Main(string[] args)
        {
            try
            {
                const int CALLS_QTY = 10;

                DateTime startTime = DateTime.Now;

 
WebServiceDirectTestConsole.FileServiceSample.WebServiceFacade
                    service = new
WebServiceDirectTestConsole.FileServiceSample.WebServiceFacade();
                
 
//http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/LoremIpsum.txt (50KB)
                string p = @"c:\temp\LoremIpsum.txt";
                string fileName = "testFile";
                string fileText = System.IO.File.ReadAllText(p);
                string text = null;

                for (int i = 1; i <= CALLS_QTY; i++)
                {
                    service.StoreFile(fileName + i.ToString(), fileText);
                    text = service.GetFile(fileName + i.ToString());
                }

                text = service.GetWebServiceUsageStatistics();

                Console.WriteLine(text);

                DateTime endTime = DateTime.Now;

                double elapsedTime = ((TimeSpan)(endTime -
startTime)).TotalSeconds;

                Console.WriteLine("Elapsed Time = {0:#0.00} seconds for {1}
calls ({2}s/call, fileSize = {3})",
                    elapsedTime, CALLS_QTY, elapsedTime / CALLS_QTY,
fileText.Length);

            }
            catch (Exception ex)
            {
                Console.WriteLine(ex.Message);
            }
        }
    }
}

One of the results of the above test runs is the following:

Total Web Calls: 20
Total Web Calls Duration: 20 ticks
Total Store File Web Calls: 10
Total Store File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
Total Get File Web Calls: 10
Total Get File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
Total Delete File Web Calls: 0
Total Delete File Web Calls Duration: 0 ticks
Currently Stored Files: 10
Currently Stored Files  Length: 503440

FILES
-----
fileName = testFile1, length = 50344
fileName = testFile2, length = 50344
fileName = testFile3, length = 50344
fileName = testFile4, length = 50344
fileName = testFile5, length = 50344
fileName = testFile6, length = 50344
fileName = testFile7, length = 50344
fileName = testFile8, length = 50344
fileName = testFile9, length = 50344
fileName = testFile10, length = 50344

Elapsed Time = 6,80 seconds for 10 calls (0,6799s/call, fileSize = 50467)


If you are interested we can make intensive test of this sample web service.

(I personally would be interested in such testing.)
I will make all its source code (simple) available on
northwind.codeplex.com.
This sample web service has already MS Access/VBA callable wrapper ActiveX
DLLs.

Thank you.

--
Shamil

P.S. Here is how the same web service can be called from MS Access/VBA using
ActiveX DLL wrapper library:

Option Compare Database
Option Explicit

Public Function TestWebServiceAdv()
Dim service As New MSAccessWebService
Const CALLS_QTY As Integer = 10
    Dim startTime As Date
    startTime = Now
    
    '//http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/LoremIpsum.txt (50KB)
    Dim p As String
    p = "c:\temp\LoremIpsum.txt"
    
    Dim fileName As String
    fileName = "testFile"
    Dim fileText As String
    fileText = ReadAllText(p)
    Dim text As String
    Dim i As Integer

    For i = 1 To CALLS_QTY Step 1
        service.StoreFile fileName + CStr(i), fileText
        text = service.GetFile(fileName + CStr(i))
    Next i
    
    Dim endTime As Date
    endTime = Now
    
    text = service.GetWebServiceUsageStatistics()
    Debug.Print text
    
    Dim elapsedTime As Double
    elapsedTime = DateDiff("s", startTime, endTime)
    Debug.Print elapsedTime & " seconds per " & _
           CStr(CALLS_QTY) & " calls"
End Function
                
Private Function ReadAllText(filePath As String) _
   As String
Dim text As String
Dim fn As Integer
Dim fileLen As Long
    fn = FreeFile
    Open filePath For Input As #fn
    fileLen = LOF(fn)
    text = Input(fileLen, fn)
    Close fn
    ReadAllText = text
End Function

One of the test calls results is the following:

Total Web Calls: 20
Total Web Calls Duration: 20 ticks
Total Store File Web Calls: 10
Total Store File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
Total Get File Web Calls: 10
Total Get File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
Total Delete File Web Calls: 0
Total Delete File Web Calls Duration: 0 ticks
Currently Stored Files: 10
Currently Stored Files  Length: 503460

FILES
-----
fileName = testFile1, length = 50346
fileName = testFile2, length = 50346
fileName = testFile3, length = 50346
fileName = testFile4, length = 50346
fileName = testFile5, length = 50346
fileName = testFile6, length = 50346
fileName = testFile7, length = 50346
fileName = testFile8, length = 50346
fileName = testFile9, length = 50346
fileName = testFile10, length = 50346

8 seconds per 10 calls


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Eric Barro
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 5:54 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet

John,

This is a good candidate for a web service. A web service allows you to
expose certain methods to client machines outside the network.

1. Basically in terms of servers you will need a web server and a database
server (one physical server is possible but two are better due to security
issues).
2. The web server exposes the web service application and takes care of
authentication to the database server. The web server is the only one that
is publicly accessible from the outside.

This saves you from having to set up VPN client software on the client
machines and also saves you from having to purchase hardware to run the VPN
on the server side.

Eric


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 6:11 AM
To: VBA
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet

I am looking at doing an application in C# that needs to be able to run on
user systems around the country, but manipulate data in a common location.
IOW employees can be anywhere, running this program on their machine, but
reading / writing data to a central server.

It is a fairly simple application in terms of the data, a hand full of
fairly stable and short list tables that feed combos, and a couple of "log"
kind of tables that document processes.  It would be nice to have access to
a fairly complex directory structure containing data files that need to be
imported by and exported from this program.  Again these files are small,
less than a thousand lines of data, fixed width or CSV.  I am looking at the
files now and the largest appear to be 80K or so.

I am thinking that a VPN tunnel to allow access to the data directories,
which are then mapped to a drive on the local workstation.  Some kind of
data store on the server, perhaps SQL Server Express. 
  A local data store to do the import into, manipulation / cleanup of data,
export back to files on the remote server directory structure.

I am wondering if you guys have experience in setting up this kind of a
server and application to work on such a server.

--
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com
_______________________________________________




From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Sat Aug 29 14:15:39 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 15:15:39 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <002101ca28d5$3357af10$9a070d30$@spb.ru>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>	<A0EE8D558F30475DA302FCEDB2F81D4F@advancedinput.com>
	<002101ca28d5$3357af10$9a070d30$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <4A997E5B.20909@colbyconsulting.com>

Thanks Shamil.

What is missing here is an explanation.

1) What IS a web service?
2) What are the pieces, and what do they do?  I assume that there is a service and a client?
3) What is this web service doing?
4) Doesn't it seem that ...

getting IIS and SQL Server set up, writing web services, writing a DLL for the client Access 
database, getting the existing system using the DLL and installing the DLL on each machine...

doesn't all of that seem much more complicated than installing Hamachi and mapping a shared 
directory to a drive letter?

Now, having said that, I have a future project which (if you would slow down and explain just what 
the heck this stuff was) MIGHT be a perfect fit for this technology.  OTOH, the future project is a 
system that I hope to sell to small drug companies.  Whatever this stuff is has to be point and 
click installable as software at the client's site.

As I mentioned to Eric, I am listening, but so far I haven't understood a word of what I am hearing.

Perhaps a reference to some book, or article that explains this stuff step by step...?

Thanks,

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote:
> Yes, web service would be a good solution here.
> 
> I have made a test web service, which is located here:
> 
> http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx
> 
> 
> You can test it using this code (c#):
> 
> using System;
> 
> namespace WebServiceDirectTestConsole
> {
>     class Program
>     {
>         //
>         // Add ASP.NET 2.0 web service reference:
>         //
> http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx
>         //
>         static void Main(string[] args)
>         {
>             try
>             {
>                 const int CALLS_QTY = 10;
> 
>                 DateTime startTime = DateTime.Now;
> 
>  
> WebServiceDirectTestConsole.FileServiceSample.WebServiceFacade
>                     service = new
> WebServiceDirectTestConsole.FileServiceSample.WebServiceFacade();
>                 
>  
> //http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/LoremIpsum.txt (50KB)
>                 string p = @"c:\temp\LoremIpsum.txt";
>                 string fileName = "testFile";
>                 string fileText = System.IO.File.ReadAllText(p);
>                 string text = null;
> 
>                 for (int i = 1; i <= CALLS_QTY; i++)
>                 {
>                     service.StoreFile(fileName + i.ToString(), fileText);
>                     text = service.GetFile(fileName + i.ToString());
>                 }
> 
>                 text = service.GetWebServiceUsageStatistics();
> 
>                 Console.WriteLine(text);
> 
>                 DateTime endTime = DateTime.Now;
> 
>                 double elapsedTime = ((TimeSpan)(endTime -
> startTime)).TotalSeconds;
> 
>                 Console.WriteLine("Elapsed Time = {0:#0.00} seconds for {1}
> calls ({2}s/call, fileSize = {3})",
>                     elapsedTime, CALLS_QTY, elapsedTime / CALLS_QTY,
> fileText.Length);
> 
>             }
>             catch (Exception ex)
>             {
>                 Console.WriteLine(ex.Message);
>             }
>         }
>     }
> }
> 
> One of the results of the above test runs is the following:
> 
> Total Web Calls: 20
> Total Web Calls Duration: 20 ticks
> Total Store File Web Calls: 10
> Total Store File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
> Total Get File Web Calls: 10
> Total Get File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
> Total Delete File Web Calls: 0
> Total Delete File Web Calls Duration: 0 ticks
> Currently Stored Files: 10
> Currently Stored Files  Length: 503440
> 
> FILES
> -----
> fileName = testFile1, length = 50344
> fileName = testFile2, length = 50344
> fileName = testFile3, length = 50344
> fileName = testFile4, length = 50344
> fileName = testFile5, length = 50344
> fileName = testFile6, length = 50344
> fileName = testFile7, length = 50344
> fileName = testFile8, length = 50344
> fileName = testFile9, length = 50344
> fileName = testFile10, length = 50344
> 
> Elapsed Time = 6,80 seconds for 10 calls (0,6799s/call, fileSize = 50467)
> 
> 
> If you are interested we can make intensive test of this sample web service.
> 
> (I personally would be interested in such testing.)
> I will make all its source code (simple) available on
> northwind.codeplex.com.
> This sample web service has already MS Access/VBA callable wrapper ActiveX
> DLLs.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> --
> Shamil
> 
> P.S. Here is how the same web service can be called from MS Access/VBA using
> ActiveX DLL wrapper library:
> 
> Option Compare Database
> Option Explicit
> 
> Public Function TestWebServiceAdv()
> Dim service As New MSAccessWebService
> Const CALLS_QTY As Integer = 10
>     Dim startTime As Date
>     startTime = Now
>     
>     '//http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/LoremIpsum.txt (50KB)
>     Dim p As String
>     p = "c:\temp\LoremIpsum.txt"
>     
>     Dim fileName As String
>     fileName = "testFile"
>     Dim fileText As String
>     fileText = ReadAllText(p)
>     Dim text As String
>     Dim i As Integer
> 
>     For i = 1 To CALLS_QTY Step 1
>         service.StoreFile fileName + CStr(i), fileText
>         text = service.GetFile(fileName + CStr(i))
>     Next i
>     
>     Dim endTime As Date
>     endTime = Now
>     
>     text = service.GetWebServiceUsageStatistics()
>     Debug.Print text
>     
>     Dim elapsedTime As Double
>     elapsedTime = DateDiff("s", startTime, endTime)
>     Debug.Print elapsedTime & " seconds per " & _
>            CStr(CALLS_QTY) & " calls"
> End Function
>                 
> Private Function ReadAllText(filePath As String) _
>    As String
> Dim text As String
> Dim fn As Integer
> Dim fileLen As Long
>     fn = FreeFile
>     Open filePath For Input As #fn
>     fileLen = LOF(fn)
>     text = Input(fileLen, fn)
>     Close fn
>     ReadAllText = text
> End Function
> 
> One of the test calls results is the following:
> 
> Total Web Calls: 20
> Total Web Calls Duration: 20 ticks
> Total Store File Web Calls: 10
> Total Store File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
> Total Get File Web Calls: 10
> Total Get File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
> Total Delete File Web Calls: 0
> Total Delete File Web Calls Duration: 0 ticks
> Currently Stored Files: 10
> Currently Stored Files  Length: 503460
> 
> FILES
> -----
> fileName = testFile1, length = 50346
> fileName = testFile2, length = 50346
> fileName = testFile3, length = 50346
> fileName = testFile4, length = 50346
> fileName = testFile5, length = 50346
> fileName = testFile6, length = 50346
> fileName = testFile7, length = 50346
> fileName = testFile8, length = 50346
> fileName = testFile9, length = 50346
> fileName = testFile10, length = 50346
> 
> 8 seconds per 10 calls
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Eric Barro
> Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 5:54 PM
> To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
> 
> John,
> 
> This is a good candidate for a web service. A web service allows you to
> expose certain methods to client machines outside the network.
> 
> 1. Basically in terms of servers you will need a web server and a database
> server (one physical server is possible but two are better due to security
> issues).
> 2. The web server exposes the web service application and takes care of
> authentication to the database server. The web server is the only one that
> is publicly accessible from the outside.
> 
> This saves you from having to set up VPN client software on the client
> machines and also saves you from having to purchase hardware to run the VPN
> on the server side.
> 
> Eric
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
> Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 6:11 AM
> To: VBA
> Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
> 
> I am looking at doing an application in C# that needs to be able to run on
> user systems around the country, but manipulate data in a common location.
> IOW employees can be anywhere, running this program on their machine, but
> reading / writing data to a central server.
> 
> It is a fairly simple application in terms of the data, a hand full of
> fairly stable and short list tables that feed combos, and a couple of "log"
> kind of tables that document processes.  It would be nice to have access to
> a fairly complex directory structure containing data files that need to be
> imported by and exported from this program.  Again these files are small,
> less than a thousand lines of data, fixed width or CSV.  I am looking at the
> files now and the largest appear to be 80K or so.
> 
> I am thinking that a VPN tunnel to allow access to the data directories,
> which are then mapped to a drive on the local workstation.  Some kind of
> data store on the server, perhaps SQL Server Express. 
>   A local data store to do the import into, manipulation / cleanup of data,
> export back to files on the remote server directory structure.
> 
> I am wondering if you guys have experience in setting up this kind of a
> server and application to work on such a server.
> 
> --
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com
> _______________________________________________
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 


From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Sat Aug 29 15:02:07 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 00:02:07 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <002101ca28d5$3357af10$9a070d30$@spb.ru>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>	<A0EE8D558F30475DA302FCEDB2F81D4F@advancedinput.com>
	<002101ca28d5$3357af10$9a070d30$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <002201ca28e3$978d2f60$c6a78e20$@spb.ru>

Hi All,

I have made additions to the web service/test code - sample text to send to
web service can be now generated on-the-fly/obtained from web service call:

using System;

namespace WebServiceDirectTestConsole
{
    class Program
    {
        //
        // Add ASP.NET 2.0 web service reference:
        //
http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx
        //
        static void Main(string[] args)
        {
            try
            {
                const int CALLS_QTY = 10;

                DateTime startTime = DateTime.Now;

 
WebServiceDirectTestConsole.FileServiceSample.WebServiceFacade
                    service = new
WebServiceDirectTestConsole.FileServiceSample.WebServiceFacade();
                
                string fileName = "testFile";
                string what = "bytes";
                long amount = 30000; // max=71680;
                string fileText = service.GetLoremIpsumText(amount, what);
                string text = null;

                for (int i = 1; i <= CALLS_QTY; i++)
                {
                    service.StoreFile(fileName + i.ToString(), fileText);
                    text = service.GetFile(fileName + i.ToString());
                }

                text = service.GetWebServiceUsageStatistics();

                Console.WriteLine(text);

                DateTime endTime = DateTime.Now;

                double elapsedTime = ((TimeSpan)(endTime -
startTime)).TotalSeconds;

                Console.WriteLine("Elapsed Time = {0:#0.00} seconds for {1}
calls ({2}s/call, fileSize = {3})",
                    elapsedTime, CALLS_QTY, elapsedTime / CALLS_QTY,
fileText.Length);

            }
            catch (Exception ex)
            {
                Console.WriteLine(ex.Message);
            }
        }

    }
}

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil
Salakhetdinov
Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 10:19 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet

Yes, web service would be a good solution here.

I have made a test web service, which is located here:

http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx


You can test it using this code (c#):

using System;

namespace WebServiceDirectTestConsole
{
    class Program
    {
        //
        // Add ASP.NET 2.0 web service reference:
        //
http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx
        //
        static void Main(string[] args)
        {
            try
            {
                const int CALLS_QTY = 10;

                DateTime startTime = DateTime.Now;

 
WebServiceDirectTestConsole.FileServiceSample.WebServiceFacade
                    service = new
WebServiceDirectTestConsole.FileServiceSample.WebServiceFacade();
                
 
//http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/LoremIpsum.txt (50KB)
                string p = @"c:\temp\LoremIpsum.txt";
                string fileName = "testFile";
                string fileText = System.IO.File.ReadAllText(p);
                string text = null;

                for (int i = 1; i <= CALLS_QTY; i++)
                {
                    service.StoreFile(fileName + i.ToString(), fileText);
                    text = service.GetFile(fileName + i.ToString());
                }

                text = service.GetWebServiceUsageStatistics();

                Console.WriteLine(text);

                DateTime endTime = DateTime.Now;

                double elapsedTime = ((TimeSpan)(endTime -
startTime)).TotalSeconds;

                Console.WriteLine("Elapsed Time = {0:#0.00} seconds for {1}
calls ({2}s/call, fileSize = {3})",
                    elapsedTime, CALLS_QTY, elapsedTime / CALLS_QTY,
fileText.Length);

            }
            catch (Exception ex)
            {
                Console.WriteLine(ex.Message);
            }
        }
    }
}

One of the results of the above test runs is the following:

Total Web Calls: 20
Total Web Calls Duration: 20 ticks
Total Store File Web Calls: 10
Total Store File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
Total Get File Web Calls: 10
Total Get File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
Total Delete File Web Calls: 0
Total Delete File Web Calls Duration: 0 ticks
Currently Stored Files: 10
Currently Stored Files  Length: 503440

FILES
-----
fileName = testFile1, length = 50344
fileName = testFile2, length = 50344
fileName = testFile3, length = 50344
fileName = testFile4, length = 50344
fileName = testFile5, length = 50344
fileName = testFile6, length = 50344
fileName = testFile7, length = 50344
fileName = testFile8, length = 50344
fileName = testFile9, length = 50344
fileName = testFile10, length = 50344

Elapsed Time = 6,80 seconds for 10 calls (0,6799s/call, fileSize = 50467)


If you are interested we can make intensive test of this sample web service.

(I personally would be interested in such testing.)
I will make all its source code (simple) available on
northwind.codeplex.com.
This sample web service has already MS Access/VBA callable wrapper ActiveX
DLLs.

Thank you.

--
Shamil

P.S. Here is how the same web service can be called from MS Access/VBA using
ActiveX DLL wrapper library:

Option Compare Database
Option Explicit

Public Function TestWebServiceAdv()
Dim service As New MSAccessWebService
Const CALLS_QTY As Integer = 10
    Dim startTime As Date
    startTime = Now
    
    '//http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/LoremIpsum.txt (50KB)
    Dim p As String
    p = "c:\temp\LoremIpsum.txt"
    
    Dim fileName As String
    fileName = "testFile"
    Dim fileText As String
    fileText = ReadAllText(p)
    Dim text As String
    Dim i As Integer

    For i = 1 To CALLS_QTY Step 1
        service.StoreFile fileName + CStr(i), fileText
        text = service.GetFile(fileName + CStr(i))
    Next i
    
    Dim endTime As Date
    endTime = Now
    
    text = service.GetWebServiceUsageStatistics()
    Debug.Print text
    
    Dim elapsedTime As Double
    elapsedTime = DateDiff("s", startTime, endTime)
    Debug.Print elapsedTime & " seconds per " & _
           CStr(CALLS_QTY) & " calls"
End Function
                
Private Function ReadAllText(filePath As String) _
   As String
Dim text As String
Dim fn As Integer
Dim fileLen As Long
    fn = FreeFile
    Open filePath For Input As #fn
    fileLen = LOF(fn)
    text = Input(fileLen, fn)
    Close fn
    ReadAllText = text
End Function

One of the test calls results is the following:

Total Web Calls: 20
Total Web Calls Duration: 20 ticks
Total Store File Web Calls: 10
Total Store File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
Total Get File Web Calls: 10
Total Get File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
Total Delete File Web Calls: 0
Total Delete File Web Calls Duration: 0 ticks
Currently Stored Files: 10
Currently Stored Files  Length: 503460

FILES
-----
fileName = testFile1, length = 50346
fileName = testFile2, length = 50346
fileName = testFile3, length = 50346
fileName = testFile4, length = 50346
fileName = testFile5, length = 50346
fileName = testFile6, length = 50346
fileName = testFile7, length = 50346
fileName = testFile8, length = 50346
fileName = testFile9, length = 50346
fileName = testFile10, length = 50346

8 seconds per 10 calls


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Eric Barro
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 5:54 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet

John,

This is a good candidate for a web service. A web service allows you to
expose certain methods to client machines outside the network.

1. Basically in terms of servers you will need a web server and a database
server (one physical server is possible but two are better due to security
issues).
2. The web server exposes the web service application and takes care of
authentication to the database server. The web server is the only one that
is publicly accessible from the outside.

This saves you from having to set up VPN client software on the client
machines and also saves you from having to purchase hardware to run the VPN
on the server side.

Eric


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 6:11 AM
To: VBA
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet

I am looking at doing an application in C# that needs to be able to run on
user systems around the country, but manipulate data in a common location.
IOW employees can be anywhere, running this program on their machine, but
reading / writing data to a central server.

It is a fairly simple application in terms of the data, a hand full of
fairly stable and short list tables that feed combos, and a couple of "log"
kind of tables that document processes.  It would be nice to have access to
a fairly complex directory structure containing data files that need to be
imported by and exported from this program.  Again these files are small,
less than a thousand lines of data, fixed width or CSV.  I am looking at the
files now and the largest appear to be 80K or so.

I am thinking that a VPN tunnel to allow access to the data directories,
which are then mapped to a drive on the local workstation.  Some kind of
data store on the server, perhaps SQL Server Express. 
  A local data store to do the import into, manipulation / cleanup of data,
export back to files on the remote server directory structure.

I am wondering if you guys have experience in setting up this kind of a
server and application to work on such a server.

--
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com
_______________________________________________





From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Sat Aug 29 15:42:00 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 00:42:00 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <4A997E5B.20909@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>	<A0EE8D558F30475DA302FCEDB2F81D4F@advancedinput.com>	<002101ca28d5$3357af10$9a070d30$@spb.ru>
	<4A997E5B.20909@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <002301ca28e9$2aaf8f40$800eadc0$@spb.ru>

Hi John,

I have got only a reference to MSDN:

"Web Services in Managed Code"
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/xy59yt45.aspx

This MSDN entry and related ones have rather detailed and step by step
introduction into Web Services subject area.

Hamachi vs. Web Services: it depends - for me using Web Services look
quicker (no need to setup IIS and MS SQL for the sample I presented as it
runs on my ASP.NET hosting site - this sample deployed by XCOPY), more
flexible, scalable etc. To set wrapper activeX DLL (assuming all customers'
PC have target .NET Framework installed) is no more than run a .bat file. 

Of course learning how to use/develop Web Services takes some time. But this
learning will pay back very well - guaranteed.

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 11:16 PM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet

Thanks Shamil.

What is missing here is an explanation.

1) What IS a web service?
2) What are the pieces, and what do they do?  I assume that there is a
service and a client?
3) What is this web service doing?
4) Doesn't it seem that ...

getting IIS and SQL Server set up, writing web services, writing a DLL for
the client Access 
database, getting the existing system using the DLL and installing the DLL
on each machine...

doesn't all of that seem much more complicated than installing Hamachi and
mapping a shared 
directory to a drive letter?

Now, having said that, I have a future project which (if you would slow down
and explain just what 
the heck this stuff was) MIGHT be a perfect fit for this technology.  OTOH,
the future project is a 
system that I hope to sell to small drug companies.  Whatever this stuff is
has to be point and 
click installable as software at the client's site.

As I mentioned to Eric, I am listening, but so far I haven't understood a
word of what I am hearing.

Perhaps a reference to some book, or article that explains this stuff step
by step...?

Thanks,

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote:
> Yes, web service would be a good solution here.
> 
> I have made a test web service, which is located here:
> 
> http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx
> 
> 
> You can test it using this code (c#):
> 
> using System;
> 
> namespace WebServiceDirectTestConsole
> {
>     class Program
>     {
>         //
>         // Add ASP.NET 2.0 web service reference:
>         //
> http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx
>         //
>         static void Main(string[] args)
>         {
>             try
>             {
>                 const int CALLS_QTY = 10;
> 
>                 DateTime startTime = DateTime.Now;
> 
>  
> WebServiceDirectTestConsole.FileServiceSample.WebServiceFacade
>                     service = new
> WebServiceDirectTestConsole.FileServiceSample.WebServiceFacade();
>                 
>  
> //http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/LoremIpsum.txt (50KB)
>                 string p = @"c:\temp\LoremIpsum.txt";
>                 string fileName = "testFile";
>                 string fileText = System.IO.File.ReadAllText(p);
>                 string text = null;
> 
>                 for (int i = 1; i <= CALLS_QTY; i++)
>                 {
>                     service.StoreFile(fileName + i.ToString(), fileText);
>                     text = service.GetFile(fileName + i.ToString());
>                 }
> 
>                 text = service.GetWebServiceUsageStatistics();
> 
>                 Console.WriteLine(text);
> 
>                 DateTime endTime = DateTime.Now;
> 
>                 double elapsedTime = ((TimeSpan)(endTime -
> startTime)).TotalSeconds;
> 
>                 Console.WriteLine("Elapsed Time = {0:#0.00} seconds for
{1}
> calls ({2}s/call, fileSize = {3})",
>                     elapsedTime, CALLS_QTY, elapsedTime / CALLS_QTY,
> fileText.Length);
> 
>             }
>             catch (Exception ex)
>             {
>                 Console.WriteLine(ex.Message);
>             }
>         }
>     }
> }
> 
> One of the results of the above test runs is the following:
> 
> Total Web Calls: 20
> Total Web Calls Duration: 20 ticks
> Total Store File Web Calls: 10
> Total Store File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
> Total Get File Web Calls: 10
> Total Get File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
> Total Delete File Web Calls: 0
> Total Delete File Web Calls Duration: 0 ticks
> Currently Stored Files: 10
> Currently Stored Files  Length: 503440
> 
> FILES
> -----
> fileName = testFile1, length = 50344
> fileName = testFile2, length = 50344
> fileName = testFile3, length = 50344
> fileName = testFile4, length = 50344
> fileName = testFile5, length = 50344
> fileName = testFile6, length = 50344
> fileName = testFile7, length = 50344
> fileName = testFile8, length = 50344
> fileName = testFile9, length = 50344
> fileName = testFile10, length = 50344
> 
> Elapsed Time = 6,80 seconds for 10 calls (0,6799s/call, fileSize = 50467)
> 
> 
> If you are interested we can make intensive test of this sample web
service.
> 
> (I personally would be interested in such testing.)
> I will make all its source code (simple) available on
> northwind.codeplex.com.
> This sample web service has already MS Access/VBA callable wrapper ActiveX
> DLLs.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> --
> Shamil
> 
> P.S. Here is how the same web service can be called from MS Access/VBA
using
> ActiveX DLL wrapper library:
> 
> Option Compare Database
> Option Explicit
> 
> Public Function TestWebServiceAdv()
> Dim service As New MSAccessWebService
> Const CALLS_QTY As Integer = 10
>     Dim startTime As Date
>     startTime = Now
>     
>     '//http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/LoremIpsum.txt (50KB)
>     Dim p As String
>     p = "c:\temp\LoremIpsum.txt"
>     
>     Dim fileName As String
>     fileName = "testFile"
>     Dim fileText As String
>     fileText = ReadAllText(p)
>     Dim text As String
>     Dim i As Integer
> 
>     For i = 1 To CALLS_QTY Step 1
>         service.StoreFile fileName + CStr(i), fileText
>         text = service.GetFile(fileName + CStr(i))
>     Next i
>     
>     Dim endTime As Date
>     endTime = Now
>     
>     text = service.GetWebServiceUsageStatistics()
>     Debug.Print text
>     
>     Dim elapsedTime As Double
>     elapsedTime = DateDiff("s", startTime, endTime)
>     Debug.Print elapsedTime & " seconds per " & _
>            CStr(CALLS_QTY) & " calls"
> End Function
>                 
> Private Function ReadAllText(filePath As String) _
>    As String
> Dim text As String
> Dim fn As Integer
> Dim fileLen As Long
>     fn = FreeFile
>     Open filePath For Input As #fn
>     fileLen = LOF(fn)
>     text = Input(fileLen, fn)
>     Close fn
>     ReadAllText = text
> End Function
> 
> One of the test calls results is the following:
> 
> Total Web Calls: 20
> Total Web Calls Duration: 20 ticks
> Total Store File Web Calls: 10
> Total Store File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
> Total Get File Web Calls: 10
> Total Get File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
> Total Delete File Web Calls: 0
> Total Delete File Web Calls Duration: 0 ticks
> Currently Stored Files: 10
> Currently Stored Files  Length: 503460
> 
> FILES
> -----
> fileName = testFile1, length = 50346
> fileName = testFile2, length = 50346
> fileName = testFile3, length = 50346
> fileName = testFile4, length = 50346
> fileName = testFile5, length = 50346
> fileName = testFile6, length = 50346
> fileName = testFile7, length = 50346
> fileName = testFile8, length = 50346
> fileName = testFile9, length = 50346
> fileName = testFile10, length = 50346
> 
> 8 seconds per 10 calls
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Eric Barro
> Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 5:54 PM
> To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
> 
> John,
> 
> This is a good candidate for a web service. A web service allows you to
> expose certain methods to client machines outside the network.
> 
> 1. Basically in terms of servers you will need a web server and a database
> server (one physical server is possible but two are better due to security
> issues).
> 2. The web server exposes the web service application and takes care of
> authentication to the database server. The web server is the only one that
> is publicly accessible from the outside.
> 
> This saves you from having to set up VPN client software on the client
> machines and also saves you from having to purchase hardware to run the
VPN
> on the server side.
> 
> Eric
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
> Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 6:11 AM
> To: VBA
> Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
> 
> I am looking at doing an application in C# that needs to be able to run on
> user systems around the country, but manipulate data in a common location.
> IOW employees can be anywhere, running this program on their machine, but
> reading / writing data to a central server.
> 
> It is a fairly simple application in terms of the data, a hand full of
> fairly stable and short list tables that feed combos, and a couple of
"log"
> kind of tables that document processes.  It would be nice to have access
to
> a fairly complex directory structure containing data files that need to be
> imported by and exported from this program.  Again these files are small,
> less than a thousand lines of data, fixed width or CSV.  I am looking at
the
> files now and the largest appear to be 80K or so.
> 
> I am thinking that a VPN tunnel to allow access to the data directories,
> which are then mapped to a drive on the local workstation.  Some kind of
> data store on the server, perhaps SQL Server Express. 
>   A local data store to do the import into, manipulation / cleanup of
data,
> export back to files on the remote server directory structure.
> 
> I am wondering if you guys have experience in setting up this kind of a
> server and application to work on such a server.
> 
> --
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com
> _______________________________________________
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 
_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4379 (20090829) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

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From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Sat Aug 29 15:51:10 2009
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 06:51:10 +1000
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <4A997E5B.20909@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>,
	<002101ca28d5$3357af10$9a070d30$@spb.ru>,
	<4A997E5B.20909@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <4A9994BE.30130.138FC586@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

Strictly speaking,

http://www.webopedia.com/DidYouKnow/Computer_Science/2005/web_services.asp

"The term Web service describes a standardized way of integrating Web-based applications 
using the XML, SOAP, WSDL and UDDI open standards over an Internet protocol 
backbone."

http://www.w3schools.com/webservices/ws_intro.asp
What are Web Services?

    * Web services are application components
    * Web services communicate using open protocols
    * Web services are self-contained and self-describing
    * Web services can be discovered using UDDI
    * Web services can be used by other applications
    * XML is the basis for Web services

This latter link is the start of a long tutorial on web services.

Based on your original problem, this is not really what you want at all.  You just want some 
way to transfer data over the internet which is not exposed to all and sundry.

-- 
Stuart


On 29 Aug 2009 at 15:15, jwcolby wrote:

> Thanks Shamil.
> 
> What is missing here is an explanation.
> 
> 1) What IS a web service?
> 2) What are the pieces, and what do they do?  I assume that there is a service and a client?
> 3) What is this web service doing?
> 4) Doesn't it seem that ...
> 



From ebarro at verizon.net  Fri Aug 28 14:52:40 2009
From: ebarro at verizon.net (Eric Barro)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 12:52:40 -0700
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <4A97FB07.9090701@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>
	<A0EE8D558F30475DA302FCEDB2F81D4F@advancedinput.com>
	<4A97FB07.9090701@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <FEEB2721B87C4D879A17B7B130414076@advancedinput.com>

John,

A web service doesn't necessarily need a web browser interface. Any
application can use web services for as long as that application can connect
to the internet.

You are correct that you would have to learn a whole new paradigm but only
in so far as how you reference the web service in your application and of
course creating the web service itself. VS.NET already has template code to
get you started in the right direction. I can also help you get started. As
far as multi-user issues is concerned it's a non-issue because it's handled
behind the scenes by SQL server.

As far as SQL server is concerned, it's just another connection
requesting/updating some data.

I've created web services that some of the managers at work use with Excel
to load up a worksheet with data from a vendor-supplied MRP system. They
just click a button and VBA calls the event that handles the data pull via
the web service. I've also created web services used in a browser-based
application where the user can upload an image file (JPG) to a remote SQL
server where it is saved as a BLOB (binary object) and then displays the
uploaded image on the browser after it is successfully uploaded (again
invoking one of the exposed methods of the web service that specifically
handles that functionality).

The thing with VPN connectivity, FTP, firewalls and the like is that you
have a level of complexity that you have to deal with on the client side to
get it to work correctly and if something goes wrong you have several places
that you have to look into to determine what could have caused the problem.

With the web services approach you can narrow down the troubleshooting.

Here's a sample reference for a web service on my site --
http://www.ebarro.com/webservices/EBarroAPI.asmx

Eric

-----Original Message-----
From: jwcolby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] 
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 8:43 AM
To: ebarro at verizon.net; Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related
programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet

Eric,

Thanks for the response.  I assume you are discussing a "browser based
application"?

If so there are a couple of issues that I see.
1) I would have to learn a whole new paradigm from scratch.
2) Multi-user issues.

The client is a SOHO with "employees" consisting mostly of family members,
who would work from their homes.  I understand the "setup" issues but at
least for now that would be a very small number of machines.  I just talked
to the client and, for example, he has two production scanners, one in CT
and the other in Nashville.  It would be nice for each scanner to drop the
scanned files (CSV files) into a common directory structure in the office in
CT.  The program would then pull the CSVs across the internet into the local
instance wherever that might be, import it into a local data store, process
the data, then export the tables back out into a fixed width file back in
the same server (different path) that the CSV came from.

You get the picture.  The thing that might make this work is that the files
are tiny, 80 kb is the biggest I have seen so far.  I am actually looking at
installing Hamachi on each of his "satellite offices" PCs, and building a
virtual network around that Hamachi client.

I don't contend that this solution works for a huge system but not every
system is huge!  And if it gets huge then the money will be there to support
hardware VPNs etc.  Or even a port to a web service at that point.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Eric Barro wrote:
> John,
> 
> This is a good candidate for a web service. A web service allows you 
> to expose certain methods to client machines outside the network.
> 
> 1. Basically in terms of servers you will need a web server and a 
> database server (one physical server is possible but two are better 
> due to security issues).
> 2. The web server exposes the web service application and takes care 
> of authentication to the database server. The web server is the only 
> one that is publicly accessible from the outside.
> 
> This saves you from having to set up VPN client software on the client 
> machines and also saves you from having to purchase hardware to run 
> the VPN on the server side.
> 
> Eric



From Gustav at cactus.dk  Fri Aug 28 14:43:16 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 21:43:16 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
Message-ID: <sa984f91.013@cactus.dk>

Hi John

Yes, much better. 
But I wonder why CPU power should be the bottleneck - it certainly should be the upload speed to the Internet. Could it be that this Hamagochi thing is a CPU hog? For an FTP transfer, even a Pentium II could feed files at that speed at little CPU usage ...

/gustav

>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-08-2009 21:29 >>>
Gustav,

I created a shared directory on my "new" Windows 2008 server and copied the data file directory 
structure to there.  I then remoted in to the client's machine, mapped that new directory on my 
server back to my client's machine drive Y.  Copied my latest version of the FE to his machine and 
ran.

I am therefore now running the application on his server where I do dev work for him when not 
developing on my machine in my office.  I have mapped a directory on my server over Hamachi to Y: on 
that server in his office.  Running the same code:

Time to open the file in Notepad 2156 Milliseconds
Time to open the file in Notepad 500 Milliseconds
Time to open the file in Notepad 594 Milliseconds

Import From File took 5000 Milliseconds
Cleanup of raw data took 3750 Milliseconds
Import From File took 5016 Milliseconds
Cleanup of raw data took 3390 Milliseconds
Import From File took 4531 Milliseconds
Cleanup of raw data took 9031 Milliseconds
Import From File took 4547 Milliseconds
Cleanup of raw data took 3094 Milliseconds

As you can see, my times for the import process is now MUCH faster.  The file server is now hosted 
on my quad core (2 ghz real clock AMD) with 8 gigs of ram running Windows 2008.  BTW My upload speed 
(out of my office to the internet) is not particularly blazing at .5 mbit / second.

I have to conclude that the bottleneck is the server processing speed.  When I was running the app 
on my laptop accessing data at his office, the server was a single core Pentium III 500 mhz machine 
(just checked) running Windows XP SP3 and 256 MB of ram.

Obviously having a new server at his end will help!

I think these numbers are suddenly very usable.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com 


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi John
> 
> That seems a bit slow to me but when it is set up and running and the price is right it should be fine - I mean, 73 seconds, should it matter?
> 
> /gustav
> 
> 
>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-08-2009 19:43 >>>
> Gustav,
> 
> I have Hamachi already in place on the client's server as well as my system.  I routinely remote 
> desktop in to his machine already.  I had set up the path to the data files (in / out) as a SysVar 
> and so I mapped his remote database directory (on his server) to y: on my dev machine here at my 
> office and changed my sysvar to point to the new location.
> 
> I then ran the existing Access application.  I set up my timer class to time the import, which uses 
> a simple docmd.transfertext to pull the data from the CSV file into a first stage processing table.
> 
> Looking at five different runs, the time to import 835 records from a CSV file into a local table, 
> across the internet using Hamachi is
> 
> Import From File took 72915 Milliseconds
> Cleanup of raw data took 2354 Milliseconds
> Import From File took 59250 Milliseconds
> Cleanup of raw data took 4319 Milliseconds
> Import From File took 23369 Milliseconds
> Cleanup of raw data took 3307 Milliseconds
> Import From File took 23354 Milliseconds
> Cleanup of raw data took 3447 Milliseconds
> Import From File took 23353 Milliseconds
> Cleanup of raw data took 3181 Milliseconds
> 
> I had done a couple of runs before I set up the timer and the times there were approximately 24 
> seconds as well.  So the "normal" time is around 24 seconds, but it can be quite lengthy as you can 
> see, 73 seconds in the worst case so far.
> 
> What was going on during those longer time imports is unknown.  The server is being used to store 
> these scan files as well as process them.  OTOH the server is also a 750 mhz pentium machine, pretty 
> slow as servers go.  We have a new server ready to go online.
> 
> And of course this assumes fast internet at both ends.
> 
> I also built a button to allow them to open the source CSV files in notepad.  That only took
> 
> Time to open the file in Notepad 4930 Milliseconds
> Time to open the file in Notepad 4290 Milliseconds
> Time to open the file in Notepad 2855 Milliseconds
> Time to open the file in Notepad 4274 Milliseconds
> 
> So obviously the import process itself is taking a fair amount of time.
> 
> Anyway... I would guess that for a small company like this, a Hamachi VPN to a central server is 
> going to work quite well.  Low cost, reasonably fast, and easy to set up.
> 
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com 



From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Sat Aug 29 20:08:53 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 21:08:53 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <4A9994BE.30130.138FC586@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>,
	<002101ca28d5$3357af10$9a070d30$@spb.ru>,
	<4A997E5B.20909@colbyconsulting.com>
	<4A9994BE.30130.138FC586@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
Message-ID: <4A99D125.1080300@colbyconsulting.com>

 >You just want some way to transfer data over the internet which is not exposed to all and sundry.

Uhhh yep.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Stuart McLachlan wrote:
> Strictly speaking,
> 
> http://www.webopedia.com/DidYouKnow/Computer_Science/2005/web_services.asp
> 
> "The term Web service describes a standardized way of integrating Web-based applications 
> using the XML, SOAP, WSDL and UDDI open standards over an Internet protocol 
> backbone."
> 
> http://www.w3schools.com/webservices/ws_intro.asp
> What are Web Services?
> 
>     * Web services are application components
>     * Web services communicate using open protocols
>     * Web services are self-contained and self-describing
>     * Web services can be discovered using UDDI
>     * Web services can be used by other applications
>     * XML is the basis for Web services
> 
> This latter link is the start of a long tutorial on web services.
> 
> Based on your original problem, this is not really what you want at all.  You just want some 
> way to transfer data over the internet which is not exposed to all and sundry.
> 


From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Sat Aug 29 20:21:21 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 21:21:21 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <002301ca28e9$2aaf8f40$800eadc0$@spb.ru>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>	<A0EE8D558F30475DA302FCEDB2F81D4F@advancedinput.com>	<002101ca28d5$3357af10$9a070d30$@spb.ru>	<4A997E5B.20909@colbyconsulting.com>
	<002301ca28e9$2aaf8f40$800eadc0$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <4A99D411.7000207@colbyconsulting.com>

http://www.hanselman.com/blog/BreakingAllTheRulesWithWCF.aspx

Read all the comments at the bottom.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote:
> Hi John,
> 
> I have got only a reference to MSDN:
> 
> "Web Services in Managed Code"
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/xy59yt45.aspx
> 
> This MSDN entry and related ones have rather detailed and step by step
> introduction into Web Services subject area.
> 
> Hamachi vs. Web Services: it depends - for me using Web Services look
> quicker (no need to setup IIS and MS SQL for the sample I presented as it
> runs on my ASP.NET hosting site - this sample deployed by XCOPY), more
> flexible, scalable etc. To set wrapper activeX DLL (assuming all customers'
> PC have target .NET Framework installed) is no more than run a .bat file. 
> 
> Of course learning how to use/develop Web Services takes some time. But this
> learning will pay back very well - guaranteed.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> --
> Shamil
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
> Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 11:16 PM
> To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
> 
> Thanks Shamil.
> 
> What is missing here is an explanation.
> 
> 1) What IS a web service?
> 2) What are the pieces, and what do they do?  I assume that there is a
> service and a client?
> 3) What is this web service doing?
> 4) Doesn't it seem that ...
> 
> getting IIS and SQL Server set up, writing web services, writing a DLL for
> the client Access 
> database, getting the existing system using the DLL and installing the DLL
> on each machine...
> 
> doesn't all of that seem much more complicated than installing Hamachi and
> mapping a shared 
> directory to a drive letter?
> 
> Now, having said that, I have a future project which (if you would slow down
> and explain just what 
> the heck this stuff was) MIGHT be a perfect fit for this technology.  OTOH,
> the future project is a 
> system that I hope to sell to small drug companies.  Whatever this stuff is
> has to be point and 
> click installable as software at the client's site.
> 
> As I mentioned to Eric, I am listening, but so far I haven't understood a
> word of what I am hearing.
> 
> Perhaps a reference to some book, or article that explains this stuff step
> by step...?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com
> 
> 
> Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote:
>> Yes, web service would be a good solution here.
>>
>> I have made a test web service, which is located here:
>>
>> http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx
>>
>>
>> You can test it using this code (c#):
>>
>> using System;
>>
>> namespace WebServiceDirectTestConsole
>> {
>>     class Program
>>     {
>>         //
>>         // Add ASP.NET 2.0 web service reference:
>>         //
>> http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx
>>         //
>>         static void Main(string[] args)
>>         {
>>             try
>>             {
>>                 const int CALLS_QTY = 10;
>>
>>                 DateTime startTime = DateTime.Now;
>>
>>  
>> WebServiceDirectTestConsole.FileServiceSample.WebServiceFacade
>>                     service = new
>> WebServiceDirectTestConsole.FileServiceSample.WebServiceFacade();
>>                 
>>  
>> //http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/LoremIpsum.txt (50KB)
>>                 string p = @"c:\temp\LoremIpsum.txt";
>>                 string fileName = "testFile";
>>                 string fileText = System.IO.File.ReadAllText(p);
>>                 string text = null;
>>
>>                 for (int i = 1; i <= CALLS_QTY; i++)
>>                 {
>>                     service.StoreFile(fileName + i.ToString(), fileText);
>>                     text = service.GetFile(fileName + i.ToString());
>>                 }
>>
>>                 text = service.GetWebServiceUsageStatistics();
>>
>>                 Console.WriteLine(text);
>>
>>                 DateTime endTime = DateTime.Now;
>>
>>                 double elapsedTime = ((TimeSpan)(endTime -
>> startTime)).TotalSeconds;
>>
>>                 Console.WriteLine("Elapsed Time = {0:#0.00} seconds for
> {1}
>> calls ({2}s/call, fileSize = {3})",
>>                     elapsedTime, CALLS_QTY, elapsedTime / CALLS_QTY,
>> fileText.Length);
>>
>>             }
>>             catch (Exception ex)
>>             {
>>                 Console.WriteLine(ex.Message);
>>             }
>>         }
>>     }
>> }
>>
>> One of the results of the above test runs is the following:
>>
>> Total Web Calls: 20
>> Total Web Calls Duration: 20 ticks
>> Total Store File Web Calls: 10
>> Total Store File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
>> Total Get File Web Calls: 10
>> Total Get File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
>> Total Delete File Web Calls: 0
>> Total Delete File Web Calls Duration: 0 ticks
>> Currently Stored Files: 10
>> Currently Stored Files  Length: 503440
>>
>> FILES
>> -----
>> fileName = testFile1, length = 50344
>> fileName = testFile2, length = 50344
>> fileName = testFile3, length = 50344
>> fileName = testFile4, length = 50344
>> fileName = testFile5, length = 50344
>> fileName = testFile6, length = 50344
>> fileName = testFile7, length = 50344
>> fileName = testFile8, length = 50344
>> fileName = testFile9, length = 50344
>> fileName = testFile10, length = 50344
>>
>> Elapsed Time = 6,80 seconds for 10 calls (0,6799s/call, fileSize = 50467)
>>
>>
>> If you are interested we can make intensive test of this sample web
> service.
>> (I personally would be interested in such testing.)
>> I will make all its source code (simple) available on
>> northwind.codeplex.com.
>> This sample web service has already MS Access/VBA callable wrapper ActiveX
>> DLLs.
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> --
>> Shamil
>>
>> P.S. Here is how the same web service can be called from MS Access/VBA
> using
>> ActiveX DLL wrapper library:
>>
>> Option Compare Database
>> Option Explicit
>>
>> Public Function TestWebServiceAdv()
>> Dim service As New MSAccessWebService
>> Const CALLS_QTY As Integer = 10
>>     Dim startTime As Date
>>     startTime = Now
>>     
>>     '//http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/LoremIpsum.txt (50KB)
>>     Dim p As String
>>     p = "c:\temp\LoremIpsum.txt"
>>     
>>     Dim fileName As String
>>     fileName = "testFile"
>>     Dim fileText As String
>>     fileText = ReadAllText(p)
>>     Dim text As String
>>     Dim i As Integer
>>
>>     For i = 1 To CALLS_QTY Step 1
>>         service.StoreFile fileName + CStr(i), fileText
>>         text = service.GetFile(fileName + CStr(i))
>>     Next i
>>     
>>     Dim endTime As Date
>>     endTime = Now
>>     
>>     text = service.GetWebServiceUsageStatistics()
>>     Debug.Print text
>>     
>>     Dim elapsedTime As Double
>>     elapsedTime = DateDiff("s", startTime, endTime)
>>     Debug.Print elapsedTime & " seconds per " & _
>>            CStr(CALLS_QTY) & " calls"
>> End Function
>>                 
>> Private Function ReadAllText(filePath As String) _
>>    As String
>> Dim text As String
>> Dim fn As Integer
>> Dim fileLen As Long
>>     fn = FreeFile
>>     Open filePath For Input As #fn
>>     fileLen = LOF(fn)
>>     text = Input(fileLen, fn)
>>     Close fn
>>     ReadAllText = text
>> End Function
>>
>> One of the test calls results is the following:
>>
>> Total Web Calls: 20
>> Total Web Calls Duration: 20 ticks
>> Total Store File Web Calls: 10
>> Total Store File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
>> Total Get File Web Calls: 10
>> Total Get File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
>> Total Delete File Web Calls: 0
>> Total Delete File Web Calls Duration: 0 ticks
>> Currently Stored Files: 10
>> Currently Stored Files  Length: 503460
>>
>> FILES
>> -----
>> fileName = testFile1, length = 50346
>> fileName = testFile2, length = 50346
>> fileName = testFile3, length = 50346
>> fileName = testFile4, length = 50346
>> fileName = testFile5, length = 50346
>> fileName = testFile6, length = 50346
>> fileName = testFile7, length = 50346
>> fileName = testFile8, length = 50346
>> fileName = testFile9, length = 50346
>> fileName = testFile10, length = 50346
>>
>> 8 seconds per 10 calls
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Eric Barro
>> Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 5:54 PM
>> To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
>> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
>>
>> John,
>>
>> This is a good candidate for a web service. A web service allows you to
>> expose certain methods to client machines outside the network.
>>
>> 1. Basically in terms of servers you will need a web server and a database
>> server (one physical server is possible but two are better due to security
>> issues).
>> 2. The web server exposes the web service application and takes care of
>> authentication to the database server. The web server is the only one that
>> is publicly accessible from the outside.
>>
>> This saves you from having to set up VPN client software on the client
>> machines and also saves you from having to purchase hardware to run the
> VPN
>> on the server side.
>>
>> Eric
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
>> Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 6:11 AM
>> To: VBA
>> Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
>>
>> I am looking at doing an application in C# that needs to be able to run on
>> user systems around the country, but manipulate data in a common location.
>> IOW employees can be anywhere, running this program on their machine, but
>> reading / writing data to a central server.
>>
>> It is a fairly simple application in terms of the data, a hand full of
>> fairly stable and short list tables that feed combos, and a couple of
> "log"
>> kind of tables that document processes.  It would be nice to have access
> to
>> a fairly complex directory structure containing data files that need to be
>> imported by and exported from this program.  Again these files are small,
>> less than a thousand lines of data, fixed width or CSV.  I am looking at
> the
>> files now and the largest appear to be 80K or so.
>>
>> I am thinking that a VPN tunnel to allow access to the data directories,
>> which are then mapped to a drive on the local workstation.  Some kind of
>> data store on the server, perhaps SQL Server Express. 
>>   A local data store to do the import into, manipulation / cleanup of
> data,
>> export back to files on the remote server directory structure.
>>
>> I am wondering if you guys have experience in setting up this kind of a
>> server and application to work on such a server.
>>
>> --
>> John W. Colby
>> www.ColbyConsulting.com
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> dba-VB mailing list
>> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
>> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
> database 4379 (20090829) __________
> 
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
> 
> http://www.esetnod32.ru
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 


From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Sun Aug 30 02:38:28 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 11:38:28 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <4A99D411.7000207@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>	<A0EE8D558F30475DA302FCEDB2F81D4F@advancedinput.com>	<002101ca28d5$3357af10$9a070d30$@spb.ru>	<4A997E5B.20909@colbyconsulting.com>	<002301ca28e9$2aaf8f40$800eadc0$@spb.ru>
	<4A99D411.7000207@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <002d01ca2944$df79b210$9e6d1630$@spb.ru>

Hi John,

I did read comments from the ref you quoted here - they are a usual "junk" -
I mean real developers who use MS software do not waste time on writing
comments how bad this MS software is :) I can assure you (as many other
developers here) it's not that bad as you can find reading all that "junk
comments".

BTW, I liked this comment, which I classify as very helpful, and coming from
experienced developer (as I also am BTW :)O:

<<<<<<<<<<
Ben Kloosterman, 21 June 2009, 20:38:34 (Pacific Standard Time, UTC-08:00)

The problem is not with WCF (or Axis) but with people who choose overly
complicated scenarios. WCF is far superior to Axis though because Services
framework allow things people use them. 

eg 
- Security 95% of the time no transport security/encryption is sufficient.
- Use custom headers dont fudge it like the article , this method is very
common .
- Use complicated types , inheritcance , interfaces , collections etc ..
KISS and use the DTO pattern. ( DOnt pollute your business domain with the
need to tranport it)

The big advantage REST has is you cant do the fancy things but everything
you can do with REST you can do with WCF and keep it or even more simple. 

Ben
>>>>>>>>>>>

And BTW, my current proposal is to use SOAP (ASP.NET 2.0) Web Services for
starters - they are easier to start with = you can create such Web Services
within VS2008. Later on you can convert them to WCF/REST web services -
you'll just need to change interface/fa?ade in most of the cases.

And a sample Web Service I created here is exactly a SOAP web service:

http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx

You can find comments on its interface in P.S. of this message. And you can
consume this web service using sample code I provided in my previous
postings within this thread. (All the C# code for this Web Service including
comments is about 270+ code lines long - and that's all you have to write -
no need to code manually .wsdl etc. )

Some of my experience with Web Services:

1) One of my overseas customers (WA) did use web service running on my
hosting site (Moscow, Russia, and it runs within common application pool)
for several months. And this web service was queried dozen times within a
second from his programs running on 5+ computers from his LAN there. Result:
no any major trouble at all.

2) Another customer does use web service developed here to synchronize
two-way "field-force automation" local MS SQL Express databases with central
MS SQL database running behind large ASP.NET application. No problem.

Etc.

Recap: Stop reading "junk comments", start acting.

Thank you.

--
Shamil

P.S. Sample web service interface (Note: this sample web service was made in
one go, without any "heavy load" on brain cells, within a couple of hours
including several times of (XCOPY) deployment on ASP.NET hosting site,
testing etc. - I mean with some more work it can be done 100% "bullet-proof"
but even now it should be strong enough - you can test it):

/// <summary>
/// Test method - Hello, World!
/// </summary>
/// <returns>String 'Hello MS Access World!'</returns>
[WebMethod]
public string HelloWorld()

/// <summary>
/// Stores given file in Web service memory
/// </summary>
/// <param name="fileName">File name</param>
/// <param name="fileText">File text</param>
/// <returns>Stored file length if file stored successfully,
/// otherwise throws ApplicationException </returns>
/// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter is null or
empty</exception>
/// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileText parameter is null or
empty</exception>
/// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter's value length
exceeds 255 chars</exception>
/// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileText parameter's value length
exceeds 100KB chars</exception>
/// <remarks>
/// If the total length of stored files exceed 3MB then web service deletes
/// stored files until there will be enough space to store a new file.
/// </remarks> 
[WebMethod]
public int StoreFile(string fileName, string fileText)

/// <summary>
/// Gets stored on web service side file
/// </summary>
/// <param name="fileName">File name</param>
/// <returns>Stored file text if file retrieved successfully,
/// otherwise throws ApplicationException </returns>
/// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter is null or
empty</exception>
/// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter's value length
exceeds 255 chars</exception>
/// <exception cref="ApplicationException">{fileName} - file not
found</exception>
[WebMethod]
public string GetFile(string fileName)

/// <summary>
/// Delets stored on web service side file
/// </summary>
/// <param name="fileName">File name</param>
/// <returns>True if file deleted successfully,
/// otherwise throws ApplicationException </returns>
/// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter is null or
empty</exception>
/// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter's value length
exceeds 255 chars</exception>
/// <exception cref="ApplicationException">{fileName} - file not
found</exception>
[WebMethod]
public bool DeleteFile(string fileName)

/// <summary>
/// Gets Web Service usage statistics
/// </summary>
/// <returns></returns>
[WebMethod] 
public string GetWebServiceUsageStatistics()

/// <summary>
/// Gets 'Lorem Ipsum...' text
/// </summary>
/// <param name="amount">Speficies amount of <paramref name="what"
parameter/></param>
/// <param name="what">Defines generation units: words, paras, bytes,
lists</param>
/// <returns></returns>
[WebMethod] 
public string GetLoremIpsumText(long amount, string what)


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 5:21 AM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet

http://www.hanselman.com/blog/BreakingAllTheRulesWithWCF.aspx

Read all the comments at the bottom.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com

<<< snip>>>
 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4380 (20090829) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 




From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Sun Aug 30 10:20:46 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 11:20:46 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <002d01ca2944$df79b210$9e6d1630$@spb.ru>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>	<A0EE8D558F30475DA302FCEDB2F81D4F@advancedinput.com>	<002101ca28d5$3357af10$9a070d30$@spb.ru>	<4A997E5B.20909@colbyconsulting.com>	<002301ca28e9$2aaf8f40$800eadc0$@spb.ru>	<4A99D411.7000207@colbyconsulting.com>
	<002d01ca2944$df79b210$9e6d1630$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <4A9A98CE.2090303@colbyconsulting.com>

Shamil,

I understand that only people who have problems write comments about the problems they have.  I also 
understand that if someone uses VS.Net to write both ends of the channel then the probability of 
problems drops dramatically.

I would not characterize such comments a "junk" however, I believe that such problems are very real, 
particularly when you are dealing with disparate technologies on either end.  The article itself was 
found in the C# start page, and he was having problems using .Net to try to talk to a service 
created in some other technology (from the little I actually understood).

What I found daunting was the gobbledegook of terms and technologies being discussed.  It certainly 
appeared to me that the majority of these "junk" comments were .Net developers trying to use .Net to 
subscribe (if that is the correct phrase) to services that were created in some other technology. 
Who had to do so for business reasons, in their work.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote:
> Hi John,
> 
> I did read comments from the ref you quoted here - they are a usual "junk" -
> I mean real developers who use MS software do not waste time on writing
> comments how bad this MS software is :) I can assure you (as many other
> developers here) it's not that bad as you can find reading all that "junk
> comments".
> 
> BTW, I liked this comment, which I classify as very helpful, and coming from
> experienced developer (as I also am BTW :)O:
> 
> <<<<<<<<<<
> Ben Kloosterman, 21 June 2009, 20:38:34 (Pacific Standard Time, UTC-08:00)
> 
> The problem is not with WCF (or Axis) but with people who choose overly
> complicated scenarios. WCF is far superior to Axis though because Services
> framework allow things people use them. 
> 
> eg 
> - Security 95% of the time no transport security/encryption is sufficient.
> - Use custom headers dont fudge it like the article , this method is very
> common .
> - Use complicated types , inheritcance , interfaces , collections etc ..
> KISS and use the DTO pattern. ( DOnt pollute your business domain with the
> need to tranport it)
> 
> The big advantage REST has is you cant do the fancy things but everything
> you can do with REST you can do with WCF and keep it or even more simple. 
> 
> Ben
> 
> And BTW, my current proposal is to use SOAP (ASP.NET 2.0) Web Services for
> starters - they are easier to start with = you can create such Web Services
> within VS2008. Later on you can convert them to WCF/REST web services -
> you'll just need to change interface/fa?ade in most of the cases.
> 
> And a sample Web Service I created here is exactly a SOAP web service:
> 
> http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx
> 
> You can find comments on its interface in P.S. of this message. And you can
> consume this web service using sample code I provided in my previous
> postings within this thread. (All the C# code for this Web Service including
> comments is about 270+ code lines long - and that's all you have to write -
> no need to code manually .wsdl etc. )
> 
> Some of my experience with Web Services:
> 
> 1) One of my overseas customers (WA) did use web service running on my
> hosting site (Moscow, Russia, and it runs within common application pool)
> for several months. And this web service was queried dozen times within a
> second from his programs running on 5+ computers from his LAN there. Result:
> no any major trouble at all.
> 
> 2) Another customer does use web service developed here to synchronize
> two-way "field-force automation" local MS SQL Express databases with central
> MS SQL database running behind large ASP.NET application. No problem.
> 
> Etc.
> 
> Recap: Stop reading "junk comments", start acting.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> --
> Shamil
> 
> P.S. Sample web service interface (Note: this sample web service was made in
> one go, without any "heavy load" on brain cells, within a couple of hours
> including several times of (XCOPY) deployment on ASP.NET hosting site,
> testing etc. - I mean with some more work it can be done 100% "bullet-proof"
> but even now it should be strong enough - you can test it):
> 
> /// <summary>
> /// Test method - Hello, World!
> /// </summary>
> /// <returns>String 'Hello MS Access World!'</returns>
> [WebMethod]
> public string HelloWorld()
> 
> /// <summary>
> /// Stores given file in Web service memory
> /// </summary>
> /// <param name="fileName">File name</param>
> /// <param name="fileText">File text</param>
> /// <returns>Stored file length if file stored successfully,
> /// otherwise throws ApplicationException </returns>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter is null or
> empty</exception>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileText parameter is null or
> empty</exception>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter's value length
> exceeds 255 chars</exception>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileText parameter's value length
> exceeds 100KB chars</exception>
> /// <remarks>
> /// If the total length of stored files exceed 3MB then web service deletes
> /// stored files until there will be enough space to store a new file.
> /// </remarks> 
> [WebMethod]
> public int StoreFile(string fileName, string fileText)
> 
> /// <summary>
> /// Gets stored on web service side file
> /// </summary>
> /// <param name="fileName">File name</param>
> /// <returns>Stored file text if file retrieved successfully,
> /// otherwise throws ApplicationException </returns>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter is null or
> empty</exception>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter's value length
> exceeds 255 chars</exception>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">{fileName} - file not
> found</exception>
> [WebMethod]
> public string GetFile(string fileName)
> 
> /// <summary>
> /// Delets stored on web service side file
> /// </summary>
> /// <param name="fileName">File name</param>
> /// <returns>True if file deleted successfully,
> /// otherwise throws ApplicationException </returns>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter is null or
> empty</exception>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter's value length
> exceeds 255 chars</exception>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">{fileName} - file not
> found</exception>
> [WebMethod]
> public bool DeleteFile(string fileName)
> 
> /// <summary>
> /// Gets Web Service usage statistics
> /// </summary>
> /// <returns></returns>
> [WebMethod] 
> public string GetWebServiceUsageStatistics()
> 
> /// <summary>
> /// Gets 'Lorem Ipsum...' text
> /// </summary>
> /// <param name="amount">Speficies amount of <paramref name="what"
> parameter/></param>
> /// <param name="what">Defines generation units: words, paras, bytes,
> lists</param>
> /// <returns></returns>
> [WebMethod] 
> public string GetLoremIpsumText(long amount, string what)
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 5:21 AM
> To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
> 
> http://www.hanselman.com/blog/BreakingAllTheRulesWithWCF.aspx
> 
> Read all the comments at the bottom.
> 
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com
> 
> <<< snip>>>
>  
> 
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
> database 4380 (20090829) __________
> 
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
> 
> http://www.esetnod32.ru
>  
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 


From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Sun Aug 30 13:13:17 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 22:13:17 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <4A9A98CE.2090303@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>	<A0EE8D558F30475DA302FCEDB2F81D4F@advancedinput.com>	<002101ca28d5$3357af10$9a070d30$@spb.ru>	<4A997E5B.20909@colbyconsulting.com>	<002301ca28e9$2aaf8f40$800eadc0$@spb.ru>	<4A99D411.7000207@colbyconsulting.com>	<002d01ca2944$df79b210$9e6d1630$@spb.ru>
	<4A9A98CE.2090303@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <003a01ca299d$8d97caa0$a8c75fe0$@spb.ru>

Hi John,

OK.

<<<
What I found daunting was the gobbledegook of terms and technologies being
discussed.
>>>
John, if I'd tell you - do not bother about this "gobbledegook" now would
you accept my advice?
I mean you do not need to know all that stuff until you'll really need it -
you can just start developing and releasing SOAP Web Services - it's not
that complicated. 

I do share Ben Kloosterman's opinion: "The problem is not with WCF (or Axis)
(or SOAP) but with people who choose overly complicated scenarios"...

I called comments "junk" because most of them are not constructive, and they
do not help, even disturb beginner .NET developers to start developing and
releasing Web Services - they disturb by creating wrong impression that
developing Web Services using MS software is a very complicated task. And it
isn't.

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 7:21 PM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet

Shamil,

I understand that only people who have problems write comments about the
problems they have.  I also 
understand that if someone uses VS.Net to write both ends of the channel
then the probability of 
problems drops dramatically.

I would not characterize such comments a "junk" however, I believe that such
problems are very real, 
particularly when you are dealing with disparate technologies on either end.
The article itself was 
found in the C# start page, and he was having problems using .Net to try to
talk to a service 
created in some other technology (from the little I actually understood).

What I found daunting was the gobbledegook of terms and technologies being
discussed.  It certainly 
appeared to me that the majority of these "junk" comments were .Net
developers trying to use .Net to 
subscribe (if that is the correct phrase) to services that were created in
some other technology. 
Who had to do so for business reasons, in their work.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote:
> Hi John,
> 
> I did read comments from the ref you quoted here - they are a usual "junk"
-
> I mean real developers who use MS software do not waste time on writing
> comments how bad this MS software is :) I can assure you (as many other
> developers here) it's not that bad as you can find reading all that "junk
> comments".
> 
> BTW, I liked this comment, which I classify as very helpful, and coming
from
> experienced developer (as I also am BTW :)O:
> 
> <<<<<<<<<<
> Ben Kloosterman, 21 June 2009, 20:38:34 (Pacific Standard Time, UTC-08:00)
> 
> The problem is not with WCF (or Axis) but with people who choose overly
> complicated scenarios. WCF is far superior to Axis though because Services
> framework allow things people use them. 
> 
> eg 
> - Security 95% of the time no transport security/encryption is sufficient.
> - Use custom headers dont fudge it like the article , this method is very
> common .
> - Use complicated types , inheritcance , interfaces , collections etc ..
> KISS and use the DTO pattern. ( DOnt pollute your business domain with the
> need to tranport it)
> 
> The big advantage REST has is you cant do the fancy things but everything
> you can do with REST you can do with WCF and keep it or even more simple. 
> 
> Ben
> 
> And BTW, my current proposal is to use SOAP (ASP.NET 2.0) Web Services for
> starters - they are easier to start with = you can create such Web
Services
> within VS2008. Later on you can convert them to WCF/REST web services -
> you'll just need to change interface/fa?ade in most of the cases.
> 
> And a sample Web Service I created here is exactly a SOAP web service:
> 
> http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx
> 
> You can find comments on its interface in P.S. of this message. And you
can
> consume this web service using sample code I provided in my previous
> postings within this thread. (All the C# code for this Web Service
including
> comments is about 270+ code lines long - and that's all you have to write
-
> no need to code manually .wsdl etc. )
> 
> Some of my experience with Web Services:
> 
> 1) One of my overseas customers (WA) did use web service running on my
> hosting site (Moscow, Russia, and it runs within common application pool)
> for several months. And this web service was queried dozen times within a
> second from his programs running on 5+ computers from his LAN there.
Result:
> no any major trouble at all.
> 
> 2) Another customer does use web service developed here to synchronize
> two-way "field-force automation" local MS SQL Express databases with
central
> MS SQL database running behind large ASP.NET application. No problem.
> 
> Etc.
> 
> Recap: Stop reading "junk comments", start acting.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> --
> Shamil
> 
> P.S. Sample web service interface (Note: this sample web service was made
in
> one go, without any "heavy load" on brain cells, within a couple of hours
> including several times of (XCOPY) deployment on ASP.NET hosting site,
> testing etc. - I mean with some more work it can be done 100%
"bullet-proof"
> but even now it should be strong enough - you can test it):
> 
> /// <summary>
> /// Test method - Hello, World!
> /// </summary>
> /// <returns>String 'Hello MS Access World!'</returns>
> [WebMethod]
> public string HelloWorld()
> 
> /// <summary>
> /// Stores given file in Web service memory
> /// </summary>
> /// <param name="fileName">File name</param>
> /// <param name="fileText">File text</param>
> /// <returns>Stored file length if file stored successfully,
> /// otherwise throws ApplicationException </returns>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter is null or
> empty</exception>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileText parameter is null or
> empty</exception>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter's value
length
> exceeds 255 chars</exception>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileText parameter's value
length
> exceeds 100KB chars</exception>
> /// <remarks>
> /// If the total length of stored files exceed 3MB then web service
deletes
> /// stored files until there will be enough space to store a new file.
> /// </remarks> 
> [WebMethod]
> public int StoreFile(string fileName, string fileText)
> 
> /// <summary>
> /// Gets stored on web service side file
> /// </summary>
> /// <param name="fileName">File name</param>
> /// <returns>Stored file text if file retrieved successfully,
> /// otherwise throws ApplicationException </returns>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter is null or
> empty</exception>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter's value
length
> exceeds 255 chars</exception>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">{fileName} - file not
> found</exception>
> [WebMethod]
> public string GetFile(string fileName)
> 
> /// <summary>
> /// Delets stored on web service side file
> /// </summary>
> /// <param name="fileName">File name</param>
> /// <returns>True if file deleted successfully,
> /// otherwise throws ApplicationException </returns>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter is null or
> empty</exception>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter's value
length
> exceeds 255 chars</exception>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">{fileName} - file not
> found</exception>
> [WebMethod]
> public bool DeleteFile(string fileName)
> 
> /// <summary>
> /// Gets Web Service usage statistics
> /// </summary>
> /// <returns></returns>
> [WebMethod] 
> public string GetWebServiceUsageStatistics()
> 
> /// <summary>
> /// Gets 'Lorem Ipsum...' text
> /// </summary>
> /// <param name="amount">Speficies amount of <paramref name="what"
> parameter/></param>
> /// <param name="what">Defines generation units: words, paras, bytes,
> lists</param>
> /// <returns></returns>
> [WebMethod] 
> public string GetLoremIpsumText(long amount, string what)
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 5:21 AM
> To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
> 
> http://www.hanselman.com/blog/BreakingAllTheRulesWithWCF.aspx
> 
> Read all the comments at the bottom.
> 
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com
> 
> <<< snip>>>
>  
> 
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
signature
> database 4380 (20090829) __________
> 
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
> 
> http://www.esetnod32.ru
>  
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 
_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4381 (20090830) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru






From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Sun Aug 30 13:45:58 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 22:45:58 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Posted web service test sample at northwind.codeplex.com
Message-ID: <004001ca29a2$1e6e5b30$5b4b1190$@spb.ru>

Hi All,

 

FYI: I have posted web service test sample at northwind.codeplex.com

 

http://northwind.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=26600#D
ownloadId=81254 

 

More information on this test is posted in another posting here, which waits
moderators approval as its message body is too big: 23418 bytes with a limit
of 20 KB.

 

Thank you.

 

--

Shamil



From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Sun Aug 30 13:51:41 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 14:51:41 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <003a01ca299d$8d97caa0$a8c75fe0$@spb.ru>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>	<A0EE8D558F30475DA302FCEDB2F81D4F@advancedinput.com>	<002101ca28d5$3357af10$9a070d30$@spb.ru>	<4A997E5B.20909@colbyconsulting.com>	<002301ca28e9$2aaf8f40$800eadc0$@spb.ru>	<4A99D411.7000207@colbyconsulting.com>	<002d01ca2944$df79b210$9e6d1630$@spb.ru>	<4A9A98CE.2090303@colbyconsulting.com>
	<003a01ca299d$8d97caa0$a8c75fe0$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <4A9ACA3D.3040206@colbyconsulting.com>

Shamil,

I understand and mostly agree with your opinions.  Of course I will accept your advice, start small, 
and not worry about the gobbledygook..

 > I do share Ben Kloosterman's opinion: "The problem is not with WCF (or Axis) (or SOAP) but with 
people who choose overly complicated scenarios"...

I have to smile because you are recommending soap web services, to someone just coming up to speed 
on C# (taking a beginners class!) to replace a dead simple to implement software VPN and a shared 
directory!

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote:
> Hi John,
> 
> OK.
> 
> <<<
> What I found daunting was the gobbledegook of terms and technologies being
> discussed.
> John, if I'd tell you - do not bother about this "gobbledegook" now would
> you accept my advice?
> I mean you do not need to know all that stuff until you'll really need it -
> you can just start developing and releasing SOAP Web Services - it's not
> that complicated. 
> 
> I do share Ben Kloosterman's opinion: "The problem is not with WCF (or Axis)
> (or SOAP) but with people who choose overly complicated scenarios"...
> 
> I called comments "junk" because most of them are not constructive, and they
> do not help, even disturb beginner .NET developers to start developing and
> releasing Web Services - they disturb by creating wrong impression that
> developing Web Services using MS software is a very complicated task. And it
> isn't.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> --
> Shamil
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 7:21 PM
> To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
> 
> Shamil,
> 
> I understand that only people who have problems write comments about the
> problems they have.  I also 
> understand that if someone uses VS.Net to write both ends of the channel
> then the probability of 
> problems drops dramatically.
> 
> I would not characterize such comments a "junk" however, I believe that such
> problems are very real, 
> particularly when you are dealing with disparate technologies on either end.
> The article itself was 
> found in the C# start page, and he was having problems using .Net to try to
> talk to a service 
> created in some other technology (from the little I actually understood).
> 
> What I found daunting was the gobbledegook of terms and technologies being
> discussed.  It certainly 
> appeared to me that the majority of these "junk" comments were .Net
> developers trying to use .Net to 
> subscribe (if that is the correct phrase) to services that were created in
> some other technology. 
> Who had to do so for business reasons, in their work.
> 
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com
> 
> 
> Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote:
>> Hi John,
>>
>> I did read comments from the ref you quoted here - they are a usual "junk"
> -
>> I mean real developers who use MS software do not waste time on writing
>> comments how bad this MS software is :) I can assure you (as many other
>> developers here) it's not that bad as you can find reading all that "junk
>> comments".
>>
>> BTW, I liked this comment, which I classify as very helpful, and coming
> from
>> experienced developer (as I also am BTW :)O:
>>
>> <<<<<<<<<<
>> Ben Kloosterman, 21 June 2009, 20:38:34 (Pacific Standard Time, UTC-08:00)
>>
>> The problem is not with WCF (or Axis) but with people who choose overly
>> complicated scenarios. WCF is far superior to Axis though because Services
>> framework allow things people use them. 
>>
>> eg 
>> - Security 95% of the time no transport security/encryption is sufficient.
>> - Use custom headers dont fudge it like the article , this method is very
>> common .
>> - Use complicated types , inheritcance , interfaces , collections etc ..
>> KISS and use the DTO pattern. ( DOnt pollute your business domain with the
>> need to tranport it)
>>
>> The big advantage REST has is you cant do the fancy things but everything
>> you can do with REST you can do with WCF and keep it or even more simple. 
>>
>> Ben
>>
>> And BTW, my current proposal is to use SOAP (ASP.NET 2.0) Web Services for
>> starters - they are easier to start with = you can create such Web
> Services
>> within VS2008. Later on you can convert them to WCF/REST web services -
>> you'll just need to change interface/fa?ade in most of the cases.
>>
>> And a sample Web Service I created here is exactly a SOAP web service:
>>
>> http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx
>>
>> You can find comments on its interface in P.S. of this message. And you
> can
>> consume this web service using sample code I provided in my previous
>> postings within this thread. (All the C# code for this Web Service
> including
>> comments is about 270+ code lines long - and that's all you have to write
> -
>> no need to code manually .wsdl etc. )
>>
>> Some of my experience with Web Services:
>>
>> 1) One of my overseas customers (WA) did use web service running on my
>> hosting site (Moscow, Russia, and it runs within common application pool)
>> for several months. And this web service was queried dozen times within a
>> second from his programs running on 5+ computers from his LAN there.
> Result:
>> no any major trouble at all.
>>
>> 2) Another customer does use web service developed here to synchronize
>> two-way "field-force automation" local MS SQL Express databases with
> central
>> MS SQL database running behind large ASP.NET application. No problem.
>>
>> Etc.
>>
>> Recap: Stop reading "junk comments", start acting.
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> --
>> Shamil
>>
>> P.S. Sample web service interface (Note: this sample web service was made
> in
>> one go, without any "heavy load" on brain cells, within a couple of hours
>> including several times of (XCOPY) deployment on ASP.NET hosting site,
>> testing etc. - I mean with some more work it can be done 100%
> "bullet-proof"
>> but even now it should be strong enough - you can test it):
>>
>> /// <summary>
>> /// Test method - Hello, World!
>> /// </summary>
>> /// <returns>String 'Hello MS Access World!'</returns>
>> [WebMethod]
>> public string HelloWorld()
>>
>> /// <summary>
>> /// Stores given file in Web service memory
>> /// </summary>
>> /// <param name="fileName">File name</param>
>> /// <param name="fileText">File text</param>
>> /// <returns>Stored file length if file stored successfully,
>> /// otherwise throws ApplicationException </returns>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter is null or
>> empty</exception>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileText parameter is null or
>> empty</exception>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter's value
> length
>> exceeds 255 chars</exception>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileText parameter's value
> length
>> exceeds 100KB chars</exception>
>> /// <remarks>
>> /// If the total length of stored files exceed 3MB then web service
> deletes
>> /// stored files until there will be enough space to store a new file.
>> /// </remarks> 
>> [WebMethod]
>> public int StoreFile(string fileName, string fileText)
>>
>> /// <summary>
>> /// Gets stored on web service side file
>> /// </summary>
>> /// <param name="fileName">File name</param>
>> /// <returns>Stored file text if file retrieved successfully,
>> /// otherwise throws ApplicationException </returns>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter is null or
>> empty</exception>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter's value
> length
>> exceeds 255 chars</exception>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">{fileName} - file not
>> found</exception>
>> [WebMethod]
>> public string GetFile(string fileName)
>>
>> /// <summary>
>> /// Delets stored on web service side file
>> /// </summary>
>> /// <param name="fileName">File name</param>
>> /// <returns>True if file deleted successfully,
>> /// otherwise throws ApplicationException </returns>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter is null or
>> empty</exception>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter's value
> length
>> exceeds 255 chars</exception>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">{fileName} - file not
>> found</exception>
>> [WebMethod]
>> public bool DeleteFile(string fileName)
>>
>> /// <summary>
>> /// Gets Web Service usage statistics
>> /// </summary>
>> /// <returns></returns>
>> [WebMethod] 
>> public string GetWebServiceUsageStatistics()
>>
>> /// <summary>
>> /// Gets 'Lorem Ipsum...' text
>> /// </summary>
>> /// <param name="amount">Speficies amount of <paramref name="what"
>> parameter/></param>
>> /// <param name="what">Defines generation units: words, paras, bytes,
>> lists</param>
>> /// <returns></returns>
>> [WebMethod] 
>> public string GetLoremIpsumText(long amount, string what)
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
>> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 5:21 AM
>> To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
>> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
>>
>> http://www.hanselman.com/blog/BreakingAllTheRulesWithWCF.aspx
>>
>> Read all the comments at the bottom.
>>
>> John W. Colby
>> www.ColbyConsulting.com
>>
>> <<< snip>>>
>>  
>>
>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
> signature
>> database 4380 (20090829) __________
>>
>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>
>> http://www.esetnod32.ru
>>  
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> dba-VB mailing list
>> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
>> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
> database 4381 (20090830) __________
> 
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
> 
> http://www.esetnod32.ru
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 


From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Sun Aug 30 14:24:45 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 23:24:45 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <4A9ACA3D.3040206@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>	<A0EE8D558F30475DA302FCEDB2F81D4F@advancedinput.com>	<002101ca28d5$3357af10$9a070d30$@spb.ru>	<4A997E5B.20909@colbyconsulting.com>	<002301ca28e9$2aaf8f40$800eadc0$@spb.ru>	<4A99D411.7000207@colbyconsulting.com>	<002d01ca2944$df79b210$9e6d1630$@spb.ru>	<4A9A98CE.2090303@colbyconsulting.com>	<003a01ca299d$8d97caa0$a8c75fe0$@spb.ru>
	<4A9ACA3D.3040206@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <004501ca29a7$89bad300$9d307900$@spb.ru>

Hi John,

Of course you can use "a dead simple to implement software VPN and a shared
directory" - just do not let "gobbledygook" and "misleading comments" to
stop experimenting with .NET Web Services right now: you don't even need to
know what SOAP is as you get all the complexities of communication of client
apps with SOAP web services hidden...

You'll also hear comments that "SOAP Web Services are heavy and slow" etc. -
do not care about that if you do not need response time measured in
milliseconds - and as I have seen from your task description you do not need
such response time...

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 10:52 PM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet

Shamil,

I understand and mostly agree with your opinions.  Of course I will accept
your advice, start small, 
and not worry about the gobbledygook..

 > I do share Ben Kloosterman's opinion: "The problem is not with WCF (or
Axis) (or SOAP) but with 
people who choose overly complicated scenarios"...

I have to smile because you are recommending soap web services, to someone
just coming up to speed 
on C# (taking a beginners class!) to replace a dead simple to implement
software VPN and a shared 
directory!

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote:
> Hi John,
> 
> OK.
> 
> <<<
> What I found daunting was the gobbledegook of terms and technologies being
> discussed.
> John, if I'd tell you - do not bother about this "gobbledegook" now would
> you accept my advice?
> I mean you do not need to know all that stuff until you'll really need it
-
> you can just start developing and releasing SOAP Web Services - it's not
> that complicated. 
> 
> I do share Ben Kloosterman's opinion: "The problem is not with WCF (or
Axis)
> (or SOAP) but with people who choose overly complicated scenarios"...
> 
> I called comments "junk" because most of them are not constructive, and
they
> do not help, even disturb beginner .NET developers to start developing and
> releasing Web Services - they disturb by creating wrong impression that
> developing Web Services using MS software is a very complicated task. And
it
> isn't.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> --
> Shamil
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 7:21 PM
> To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
> 
> Shamil,
> 
> I understand that only people who have problems write comments about the
> problems they have.  I also 
> understand that if someone uses VS.Net to write both ends of the channel
> then the probability of 
> problems drops dramatically.
> 
> I would not characterize such comments a "junk" however, I believe that
such
> problems are very real, 
> particularly when you are dealing with disparate technologies on either
end.
> The article itself was 
> found in the C# start page, and he was having problems using .Net to try
to
> talk to a service 
> created in some other technology (from the little I actually understood).
> 
> What I found daunting was the gobbledegook of terms and technologies being
> discussed.  It certainly 
> appeared to me that the majority of these "junk" comments were .Net
> developers trying to use .Net to 
> subscribe (if that is the correct phrase) to services that were created in
> some other technology. 
> Who had to do so for business reasons, in their work.
> 
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com
> 
> 
> Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote:
>> Hi John,
>>
>> I did read comments from the ref you quoted here - they are a usual
"junk"
> -
>> I mean real developers who use MS software do not waste time on writing
>> comments how bad this MS software is :) I can assure you (as many other
>> developers here) it's not that bad as you can find reading all that "junk
>> comments".
>>
>> BTW, I liked this comment, which I classify as very helpful, and coming
> from
>> experienced developer (as I also am BTW :)O:
>>
>> <<<<<<<<<<
>> Ben Kloosterman, 21 June 2009, 20:38:34 (Pacific Standard Time,
UTC-08:00)
>>
>> The problem is not with WCF (or Axis) but with people who choose overly
>> complicated scenarios. WCF is far superior to Axis though because
Services
>> framework allow things people use them. 
>>
>> eg 
>> - Security 95% of the time no transport security/encryption is
sufficient.
>> - Use custom headers dont fudge it like the article , this method is very
>> common .
>> - Use complicated types , inheritcance , interfaces , collections etc ..
>> KISS and use the DTO pattern. ( DOnt pollute your business domain with
the
>> need to tranport it)
>>
>> The big advantage REST has is you cant do the fancy things but everything
>> you can do with REST you can do with WCF and keep it or even more simple.

>>
>> Ben
>>
>> And BTW, my current proposal is to use SOAP (ASP.NET 2.0) Web Services
for
>> starters - they are easier to start with = you can create such Web
> Services
>> within VS2008. Later on you can convert them to WCF/REST web services -
>> you'll just need to change interface/fa?ade in most of the cases.
>>
>> And a sample Web Service I created here is exactly a SOAP web service:
>>
>> http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx
>>
>> You can find comments on its interface in P.S. of this message. And you
> can
>> consume this web service using sample code I provided in my previous
>> postings within this thread. (All the C# code for this Web Service
> including
>> comments is about 270+ code lines long - and that's all you have to write
> -
>> no need to code manually .wsdl etc. )
>>
>> Some of my experience with Web Services:
>>
>> 1) One of my overseas customers (WA) did use web service running on my
>> hosting site (Moscow, Russia, and it runs within common application pool)
>> for several months. And this web service was queried dozen times within a
>> second from his programs running on 5+ computers from his LAN there.
> Result:
>> no any major trouble at all.
>>
>> 2) Another customer does use web service developed here to synchronize
>> two-way "field-force automation" local MS SQL Express databases with
> central
>> MS SQL database running behind large ASP.NET application. No problem.
>>
>> Etc.
>>
>> Recap: Stop reading "junk comments", start acting.
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> --
>> Shamil
>>
>> P.S. Sample web service interface (Note: this sample web service was made
> in
>> one go, without any "heavy load" on brain cells, within a couple of hours
>> including several times of (XCOPY) deployment on ASP.NET hosting site,
>> testing etc. - I mean with some more work it can be done 100%
> "bullet-proof"
>> but even now it should be strong enough - you can test it):
>>
>> /// <summary>
>> /// Test method - Hello, World!
>> /// </summary>
>> /// <returns>String 'Hello MS Access World!'</returns>
>> [WebMethod]
>> public string HelloWorld()
>>
>> /// <summary>
>> /// Stores given file in Web service memory
>> /// </summary>
>> /// <param name="fileName">File name</param>
>> /// <param name="fileText">File text</param>
>> /// <returns>Stored file length if file stored successfully,
>> /// otherwise throws ApplicationException </returns>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter is null or
>> empty</exception>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileText parameter is null or
>> empty</exception>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter's value
> length
>> exceeds 255 chars</exception>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileText parameter's value
> length
>> exceeds 100KB chars</exception>
>> /// <remarks>
>> /// If the total length of stored files exceed 3MB then web service
> deletes
>> /// stored files until there will be enough space to store a new file.
>> /// </remarks> 
>> [WebMethod]
>> public int StoreFile(string fileName, string fileText)
>>
>> /// <summary>
>> /// Gets stored on web service side file
>> /// </summary>
>> /// <param name="fileName">File name</param>
>> /// <returns>Stored file text if file retrieved successfully,
>> /// otherwise throws ApplicationException </returns>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter is null or
>> empty</exception>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter's value
> length
>> exceeds 255 chars</exception>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">{fileName} - file not
>> found</exception>
>> [WebMethod]
>> public string GetFile(string fileName)
>>
>> /// <summary>
>> /// Delets stored on web service side file
>> /// </summary>
>> /// <param name="fileName">File name</param>
>> /// <returns>True if file deleted successfully,
>> /// otherwise throws ApplicationException </returns>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter is null or
>> empty</exception>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter's value
> length
>> exceeds 255 chars</exception>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">{fileName} - file not
>> found</exception>
>> [WebMethod]
>> public bool DeleteFile(string fileName)
>>
>> /// <summary>
>> /// Gets Web Service usage statistics
>> /// </summary>
>> /// <returns></returns>
>> [WebMethod] 
>> public string GetWebServiceUsageStatistics()
>>
>> /// <summary>
>> /// Gets 'Lorem Ipsum...' text
>> /// </summary>
>> /// <param name="amount">Speficies amount of <paramref name="what"
>> parameter/></param>
>> /// <param name="what">Defines generation units: words, paras, bytes,
>> lists</param>
>> /// <returns></returns>
>> [WebMethod] 
>> public string GetLoremIpsumText(long amount, string what)
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
>> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 5:21 AM
>> To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
>> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
>>
>> http://www.hanselman.com/blog/BreakingAllTheRulesWithWCF.aspx
>>
>> Read all the comments at the bottom.
>>
>> John W. Colby
>> www.ColbyConsulting.com
>>
>> <<< snip>>>
>>  
>>
>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
> signature
>> database 4380 (20090829) __________
>>
>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>
>> http://www.esetnod32.ru
>>  
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> dba-VB mailing list
>> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
>> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
signature
> database 4381 (20090830) __________
> 
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
> 
> http://www.esetnod32.ru
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 
_______________________________________________
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__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4381 (20090830) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru






From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Sun Aug 30 14:34:13 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 23:34:13 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Posted web service test sample at
	northwind.codeplex.com
In-Reply-To: <004001ca29a2$1e6e5b30$5b4b1190$@spb.ru>
References: <004001ca29a2$1e6e5b30$5b4b1190$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <004601ca29a8$dbf17740$93d465c0$@spb.ru>

Hi All,

I have to post a note on stats reported by test code:

--
Test cycle started at 30.08.2009 23:24:52, cycles left = 1340
Elapsed Time = 2,49 seconds for 20 calls (0,1245s/call, fileSize = 30410)

Total Elapsed Time In Seconds = 479,88
Total Web Service Calls = 2220,00
Total Files' Bytes Transferred = 17243880,00
Avg.ThroughOutput = 35933,81 bytes/s
--

First line reports starting time of the current test cycle, which consists
of 20 calls to Web Service: 10 "StoreFile" calls and 10 "GetFile" calls,
every call transfers to the Web Service/retrieves 30410 bytes (not counting
"SOAP" envelopes' bytes)

Second line reports the stats for completed current cycle.

Third till sixth lines report overall stats for all the calls (from all the
PCs anywhere test will run) to the web service since this web service was
released.

There could be errors in the code/stats calculation - please post your
remarks if you'll find some.

Thank you.

--
Shamil


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil
Salakhetdinov
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 10:46 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: [dba-VB] Posted web service test sample at northwind.codeplex.com

Hi All,

 

FYI: I have posted web service test sample at northwind.codeplex.com

 

http://northwind.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=26600#D
ownloadId=81254 

 

More information on this test is posted in another posting here, which waits
moderators approval as its message body is too big: 23418 bytes with a limit
of 20 KB.

 

Thank you.

 

--

Shamil

_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4381 (20090830) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru


 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4381 (20090830) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 



From Gustav at cactus.dk  Sun Aug 30 16:24:42 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 23:24:42 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
Message-ID: <sa9b0a54.021@cactus.dk>

Hi John

I'll have to second Shamil. When I joined an early presentation of Windows Communication Foundation it was the first time I began understanding what web services are about - all other info had been bits and pieces, some working but none with the big picture. WCF is so well thought out that you can say "this time MS got it right".

Also note, that the guy at the blog is not having an issue with WCF but states that "I still need to get the WCF client to talk to this unusual endpoint".
Unfortunately, this is an example of how blogs can be a total waste of time. This guy obviously knows what he talks about but - like Shamil - I browsed the comments (before reading Shamil's message here on the same) only to find them talking in East and West with no useful or educating info except one - the same that Shamil has quoted previously.

For any other project than your current very simple one I would happily go with WCF.

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 30-08-2009 20:13 >>>
Hi John,

OK.

<<<
What I found daunting was the gobbledegook of terms and technologies being
discussed.
>>>
John, if I'd tell you - do not bother about this "gobbledegook" now would
you accept my advice?
I mean you do not need to know all that stuff until you'll really need it -
you can just start developing and releasing SOAP Web Services - it's not
that complicated. 

I do share Ben Kloosterman's opinion: "The problem is not with WCF (or Axis)
(or SOAP) but with people who choose overly complicated scenarios"...

I called comments "junk" because most of them are not constructive, and they
do not help, even disturb beginner .NET developers to start developing and
releasing Web Services - they disturb by creating wrong impression that
developing Web Services using MS software is a very complicated task. And it
isn't.

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 7:21 PM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet

Shamil,

I understand that only people who have problems write comments about the problems they have.  I also 
understand that if someone uses VS.Net to write both ends of the channel then the probability of 
problems drops dramatically.

I would not characterize such comments a "junk" however, I believe that such problems are very real, 
particularly when you are dealing with disparate technologies on either end. The article itself was 
found in the C# start page, and he was having problems using .Net to try to talk to a service 
created in some other technology (from the little I actually understood).

What I found daunting was the gobbledegook of terms and technologies being discussed.  It certainly 
appeared to me that the majority of these "junk" comments were .Net developers trying to use .Net to 
subscribe (if that is the correct phrase) to services that were created in some other technology. 
Who had to do so for business reasons, in their work.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com 


Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote:
> Hi John,
> 
> I did read comments from the ref you quoted here - they are a usual "junk"
-
> I mean real developers who use MS software do not waste time on writing
> comments how bad this MS software is :) I can assure you (as many other
> developers here) it's not that bad as you can find reading all that "junk
> comments".
> 
> BTW, I liked this comment, which I classify as very helpful, and coming
from
> experienced developer (as I also am BTW :)O:
> 
> <<<<<<<<<<
> Ben Kloosterman, 21 June 2009, 20:38:34 (Pacific Standard Time, UTC-08:00)
> 
> The problem is not with WCF (or Axis) but with people who choose overly
> complicated scenarios. WCF is far superior to Axis though because Services
> framework allow things people use them. 
> 
> eg 
> - Security 95% of the time no transport security/encryption is sufficient.
> - Use custom headers dont fudge it like the article , this method is very
> common .
> - Use complicated types , inheritcance , interfaces , collections etc ..
> KISS and use the DTO pattern. ( DOnt pollute your business domain with the
> need to tranport it)
> 
> The big advantage REST has is you cant do the fancy things but everything
> you can do with REST you can do with WCF and keep it or even more simple. 
> 
> Ben
> 
> And BTW, my current proposal is to use SOAP (ASP.NET 2.0) Web Services for
> starters - they are easier to start with = you can create such Web
Services
> within VS2008. Later on you can convert them to WCF/REST web services -
> you'll just need to change interface/fa?ade in most of the cases.
> 
> And a sample Web Service I created here is exactly a SOAP web service:
> 
> http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx 
> 
> You can find comments on its interface in P.S. of this message. And you
can
> consume this web service using sample code I provided in my previous
> postings within this thread. (All the C# code for this Web Service
including
> comments is about 270+ code lines long - and that's all you have to write
-
> no need to code manually .wsdl etc. )
> 
> Some of my experience with Web Services:
> 
> 1) One of my overseas customers (WA) did use web service running on my
> hosting site (Moscow, Russia, and it runs within common application pool)
> for several months. And this web service was queried dozen times within a
> second from his programs running on 5+ computers from his LAN there.
Result:
> no any major trouble at all.
> 
> 2) Another customer does use web service developed here to synchronize
> two-way "field-force automation" local MS SQL Express databases with
central
> MS SQL database running behind large ASP.NET application. No problem.
> 
> Etc.
> 
> Recap: Stop reading "junk comments", start acting.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> --
> Shamil




From dbdoug at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 16:47:35 2009
From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 14:47:35 -0700
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <sa9b0a54.021@cactus.dk>
References: <sa9b0a54.021@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <4dd71a0c0908301447s1c1fc75cw1eac8e9761f2a50@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Gustav (and Shamil)

I've been following this discussion with some interest.  My impression of
web services is that they are basically for publishing information (like a
parts catalogue) which could be read and used by clients.  I gather that
this is not the whole picture.

I've spent several hours on the web recently trying to get more information;
however I have yet to stumble on a site which gives a clear explanation
and/or some practical examples.  Do you have any good references?

Thanks,

Doug Steele

On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 2:24 PM, Gustav Brock <Gustav at cactus.dk> wrote:

> Hi John
>
> I'll have to second Shamil. When I joined an early presentation of Windows
> Communication Foundation it was the first time I began understanding what
> web services are about - all other info had been bits and pieces, some
> working but none with the big picture. WCF is so well thought out that you
> can say "this time MS got it right".
>
>
>


From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Sun Aug 30 16:59:54 2009
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 07:59:54 +1000
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <4A9ACA3D.3040206@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>,
	<003a01ca299d$8d97caa0$a8c75fe0$@spb.ru>,
	<4A9ACA3D.3040206@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <4A9AF65A.10563.18F51086@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

WCF, SOAP, Web Services etc are necessary if you are exposing services to all and 
sundry on the web.

There are far simpler ways to exchange data when you have control of both the client and 
the server. These other methods do not require you to set up a web server and publish a 
schema which then opens up your data to the whole world.  Take a look at a simple TCPIP 
client/server solution first.  Here's a simple one in VB .Net 

http://www.eggheadcafe.com/articles/20020323.asp

This could be easily modified to do the sort of thing you are after, with the Listener 
application doing most of the work.

-- 
Stuart

On 30 Aug 2009 at 14:51, jwcolby wrote:

> Shamil,
> 
> I understand and mostly agree with your opinions.  Of course I will accept your advice, start small, 
> and not worry about the gobbledygook..
> 
>  > I do share Ben Kloosterman's opinion: "The problem is not with WCF (or Axis) (or SOAP) but with 
> people who choose overly complicated scenarios"...
> 
> I have to smile because you are recommending soap web services, to someone just coming up to speed 
> on C# (taking a beginners class!) to replace a dead simple to implement software VPN and a shared 
> directory!
> 
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com
> 
> 
> Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote:
> > Hi John,
> > 
> > OK.
> > 
> > <<<
> > What I found daunting was the gobbledegook of terms and technologies being
> > discussed.
> > John, if I'd tell you - do not bother about this "gobbledegook" now would
> > you accept my advice?
> > I mean you do not need to know all that stuff until you'll really need it -
> > you can just start developing and releasing SOAP Web Services - it's not
> > that complicated. 
> > 
> > I do share Ben Kloosterman's opinion: "The problem is not with WCF (or Axis)
> > (or SOAP) but with people who choose overly complicated scenarios"...
> > 
> > I called comments "junk" because most of them are not constructive, and they
> > do not help, even disturb beginner .NET developers to start developing and
> > releasing Web Services - they disturb by creating wrong impression that
> > developing Web Services using MS software is a very complicated task. And it
> > isn't.
> > 
> > Thank you.
> > 
> > --
> > Shamil
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
> > Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 7:21 PM
> > To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
> > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
> > 
> > Shamil,
> > 
> > I understand that only people who have problems write comments about the
> > problems they have.  I also 
> > understand that if someone uses VS.Net to write both ends of the channel
> > then the probability of 
> > problems drops dramatically.
> > 
> > I would not characterize such comments a "junk" however, I believe that such
> > problems are very real, 
> > particularly when you are dealing with disparate technologies on either end.
> > The article itself was 
> > found in the C# start page, and he was having problems using .Net to try to
> > talk to a service 
> > created in some other technology (from the little I actually understood).
> > 
> > What I found daunting was the gobbledegook of terms and technologies being
> > discussed.  It certainly 
> > appeared to me that the majority of these "junk" comments were .Net
> > developers trying to use .Net to 
> > subscribe (if that is the correct phrase) to services that were created in
> > some other technology. 
> > Who had to do so for business reasons, in their work.
> > 
> > John W. Colby
> > www.ColbyConsulting.com
> > 
> > 
> > Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote:
> >> Hi John,
> >>
> >> I did read comments from the ref you quoted here - they are a usual "junk"
> > -
> >> I mean real developers who use MS software do not waste time on writing
> >> comments how bad this MS software is :) I can assure you (as many other
> >> developers here) it's not that bad as you can find reading all that "junk
> >> comments".
> >>
> >> BTW, I liked this comment, which I classify as very helpful, and coming
> > from
> >> experienced developer (as I also am BTW :)O:
> >>
> >> <<<<<<<<<<
> >> Ben Kloosterman, 21 June 2009, 20:38:34 (Pacific Standard Time, UTC-08:00)
> >>
> >> The problem is not with WCF (or Axis) but with people who choose overly
> >> complicated scenarios. WCF is far superior to Axis though because Services
> >> framework allow things people use them. 
> >>
> >> eg 
> >> - Security 95% of the time no transport security/encryption is sufficient.
> >> - Use custom headers dont fudge it like the article , this method is very
> >> common .
> >> - Use complicated types , inheritcance , interfaces , collections etc ..
> >> KISS and use the DTO pattern. ( DOnt pollute your business domain with the
> >> need to tranport it)
> >>
> >> The big advantage REST has is you cant do the fancy things but everything
> >> you can do with REST you can do with WCF and keep it or even more simple. 
> >>
> >> Ben
> >>
> >> And BTW, my current proposal is to use SOAP (ASP.NET 2.0) Web Services for
> >> starters - they are easier to start with = you can create such Web
> > Services
> >> within VS2008. Later on you can convert them to WCF/REST web services -
> >> you'll just need to change interface/fa?ade in most of the cases.
> >>
> >> And a sample Web Service I created here is exactly a SOAP web service:
> >>
> >> http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx
> >>
> >> You can find comments on its interface in P.S. of this message. And you
> > can
> >> consume this web service using sample code I provided in my previous
> >> postings within this thread. (All the C# code for this Web Service
> > including
> >> comments is about 270+ code lines long - and that's all you have to write
> > -
> >> no need to code manually .wsdl etc. )
> >>
> >> Some of my experience with Web Services:
> >>
> >> 1) One of my overseas customers (WA) did use web service running on my
> >> hosting site (Moscow, Russia, and it runs within common application pool)
> >> for several months. And this web service was queried dozen times within a
> >> second from his programs running on 5+ computers from his LAN there.
> > Result:
> >> no any major trouble at all.
> >>
> >> 2) Another customer does use web service developed here to synchronize
> >> two-way "field-force automation" local MS SQL Express databases with
> > central
> >> MS SQL database running behind large ASP.NET application. No problem.
> >>
> >> Etc.
> >>
> >> Recap: Stop reading "junk comments", start acting.
> >>
> >> Thank you.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Shamil
> >>
> >> P.S. Sample web service interface (Note: this sample web service was made
> > in
> >> one go, without any "heavy load" on brain cells, within a couple of hours
> >> including several times of (XCOPY) deployment on ASP.NET hosting site,
> >> testing etc. - I mean with some more work it can be done 100%
> > "bullet-proof"
> >> but even now it should be strong enough - you can test it):
> >>
> >> /// <summary>
> >> /// Test method - Hello, World!
> >> /// </summary>
> >> /// <returns>String 'Hello MS Access World!'</returns>
> >> [WebMethod]
> >> public string HelloWorld()
> >>
> >> /// <summary>
> >> /// Stores given file in Web service memory
> >> /// </summary>
> >> /// <param name="fileName">File name</param>
> >> /// <param name="fileText">File text</param>
> >> /// <returns>Stored file length if file stored successfully,
> >> /// otherwise throws ApplicationException </returns>
> >> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter is null or
> >> empty</exception>
> >> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileText parameter is null or
> >> empty</exception>
> >> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter's value
> > length
> >> exceeds 255 chars</exception>
> >> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileText parameter's value
> > length
> >> exceeds 100KB chars</exception>
> >> /// <remarks>
> >> /// If the total length of stored files exceed 3MB then web service
> > deletes
> >> /// stored files until there will be enough space to store a new file.
> >> /// </remarks> 
> >> [WebMethod]
> >> public int StoreFile(string fileName, string fileText)
> >>
> >> /// <summary>
> >> /// Gets stored on web service side file
> >> /// </summary>
> >> /// <param name="fileName">File name</param>
> >> /// <returns>Stored file text if file retrieved successfully,
> >> /// otherwise throws ApplicationException </returns>
> >> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter is null or
> >> empty</exception>
> >> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter's value
> > length
> >> exceeds 255 chars</exception>
> >> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">{fileName} - file not
> >> found</exception>
> >> [WebMethod]
> >> public string GetFile(string fileName)
> >>
> >> /// <summary>
> >> /// Delets stored on web service side file
> >> /// </summary>
> >> /// <param name="fileName">File name</param>
> >> /// <returns>True if file deleted successfully,
> >> /// otherwise throws ApplicationException </returns>
> >> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter is null or
> >> empty</exception>
> >> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter's value
> > length
> >> exceeds 255 chars</exception>
> >> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">{fileName} - file not
> >> found</exception>
> >> [WebMethod]
> >> public bool DeleteFile(string fileName)
> >>
> >> /// <summary>
> >> /// Gets Web Service usage statistics
> >> /// </summary>
> >> /// <returns></returns>
> >> [WebMethod] 
> >> public string GetWebServiceUsageStatistics()
> >>
> >> /// <summary>
> >> /// Gets 'Lorem Ipsum...' text
> >> /// </summary>
> >> /// <param name="amount">Speficies amount of <paramref name="what"
> >> parameter/></param>
> >> /// <param name="what">Defines generation units: words, paras, bytes,
> >> lists</param>
> >> /// <returns></returns>
> >> [WebMethod] 
> >> public string GetLoremIpsumText(long amount, string what)
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> >> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
> >> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 5:21 AM
> >> To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
> >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
> >>
> >> http://www.hanselman.com/blog/BreakingAllTheRulesWithWCF.aspx
> >>
> >> Read all the comments at the bottom.
> >>
> >> John W. Colby
> >> www.ColbyConsulting.com
> >>
> >> <<< snip>>>
> >>  
> >>
> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
> > signature
> >> database 4380 (20090829) __________
> >>
> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
> >>
> >> http://www.esetnod32.ru
> >>  
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> dba-VB mailing list
> >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >>
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > dba-VB mailing list
> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > 
> > 
> > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
> > database 4381 (20090830) __________
> > 
> > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
> > 
> > http://www.esetnod32.ru
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > dba-VB mailing list
> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > 
> > 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 





From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Sun Aug 30 17:07:23 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 18:07:23 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] SPAM-LOW:  Re:  Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <sa9b0a54.021@cactus.dk>
References: <sa9b0a54.021@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <4A9AF81B.7000906@colbyconsulting.com>

Gustav,

 > For any other project than your current very simple one I would happily go with WCF.

And in fact I am rewriting this very simple project into C#, more as an exercise in doing so and 
making a commitment to a real live in-use app than because it absolutely requires a rewrite.

Having done so, and having the (small) time in the trenches getting it running etc., then using a 
web service may in fact make sense even for this very simple project.

This client has a bunch more stuff that he wants to be doing.  This current project (in Access) is 
his baby but it is only the start.  I have convinced him that I know what I am doing (in general 
terms, and in Access) and he is making plans for us doing the future.  The future will involve more 
of the same kind of stuff so having a standardized file transfer thing going would be a good very 
thing.

We are looking at doing an application for sale.  For that I believe that having it in C# could be a 
plus for a couple of reasons - the power of the .Net environment as well as the public perception of 
C# vs Access.  It is in preparation for that future that I am doing the rewrite of this first piece 
(and taking the class).  I need the practice!

 >I browsed the comments (before reading Shamil's message here on the same) only to find them 
talking in East and West with no useful or educating info except one - the same that Shamil has 
quoted previously.

I hear you, and I still find these kinds of comments useful for what they are - bitches about the 
pain of what is supposed to be a standard not being a standard.  Please do not take my comment as in 
any way "defending" whatever they are saying, simply that each such comment represents a truth for 
an individual out there somewhere.  Obviously they are not offering advice or solutions, simply 
irritated comments about the reality that they are exposed to.  OTOH that reality is .Net banging 
against another platform, not .Net banging against .Net.

In the same way, I read the all comments, including negative comments about anything I am 
researching to buy on Amazon.com or Newegg.com etc.  Things don't always work the way they are 
supposed to and it is useful to hear the negatives.

These comments were in response to a "it was a PITA" blog, so naturally they are going to chime in 
with their own PITA experiences and the general tone is down.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi John
> 
> I'll have to second Shamil. When I joined an early presentation of Windows Communication Foundation it was the first time I began understanding what web services are about - all other info had been bits and pieces, some working but none with the big picture. WCF is so well thought out that you can say "this time MS got it right".
> 
> Also note, that the guy at the blog is not having an issue with WCF but states that "I still need to get the WCF client to talk to this unusual endpoint".
> Unfortunately, this is an example of how blogs can be a total waste of time. This guy obviously knows what he talks about but - like Shamil - I browsed the comments (before reading Shamil's message here on the same) only to find them talking in East and West with no useful or educating info except one - the same that Shamil has quoted previously.
> 
> For any other project than your current very simple one I would happily go with WCF.
> 
> /gustav



From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Sun Aug 30 17:18:36 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 18:18:36 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] SPAM-LOW:  Re:  Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <4A9AF65A.10563.18F51086@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>,
	<003a01ca299d$8d97caa0$a8c75fe0$@spb.ru>,
	<4A9ACA3D.3040206@colbyconsulting.com>
	<4A9AF65A.10563.18F51086@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
Message-ID: <4A9AFABC.9000101@colbyconsulting.com>

Thanks Stuart.

I believe one of the implications of the service route was that the whole TCP/IP address / port 
thing goes away, IOW it can get through a firewall without having to get the intervention of IT.

I am listening to all points of view.  Luckily I am in no hurry here, it will be six months or more 
before I need to solve this problem, or even have the requisite knowledge.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Stuart McLachlan wrote:
> WCF, SOAP, Web Services etc are necessary if you are exposing services to all and 
> sundry on the web.
> 
> There are far simpler ways to exchange data when you have control of both the client and 
> the server. These other methods do not require you to set up a web server and publish a 
> schema which then opens up your data to the whole world.  Take a look at a simple TCPIP 
> client/server solution first.  Here's a simple one in VB .Net 
> 
> http://www.eggheadcafe.com/articles/20020323.asp
> 
> This could be easily modified to do the sort of thing you are after, with the Listener 
> application doing most of the work.
> 


From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Sun Aug 30 17:47:09 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 18:47:09 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] SPAM-LOW:  Re:  Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <sa9b0a54.021@cactus.dk>
References: <sa9b0a54.021@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <4A9B016D.7000709@colbyconsulting.com>

OK, I have a couple of books on the way on WCF.  Looks like light reading!

;)

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi John
> 
> I'll have to second Shamil. When I joined an early presentation of Windows Communication Foundation it was the first time I began understanding what web services are about - all other info had been bits and pieces, some working but none with the big picture. WCF is so well thought out that you can say "this time MS got it right".
> 
> Also note, that the guy at the blog is not having an issue with WCF but states that "I still need to get the WCF client to talk to this unusual endpoint".
> Unfortunately, this is an example of how blogs can be a total waste of time. This guy obviously knows what he talks about but - like Shamil - I browsed the comments (before reading Shamil's message here on the same) only to find them talking in East and West with no useful or educating info except one - the same that Shamil has quoted previously.
> 
> For any other project than your current very simple one I would happily go with WCF.
> 
> /gustav
> 
> 
>>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 30-08-2009 20:13 >>>
> Hi John,
> 
> OK.
> 
> <<<
> What I found daunting was the gobbledegook of terms and technologies being
> discussed.
> John, if I'd tell you - do not bother about this "gobbledegook" now would
> you accept my advice?
> I mean you do not need to know all that stuff until you'll really need it -
> you can just start developing and releasing SOAP Web Services - it's not
> that complicated. 
> 
> I do share Ben Kloosterman's opinion: "The problem is not with WCF (or Axis)
> (or SOAP) but with people who choose overly complicated scenarios"...
> 
> I called comments "junk" because most of them are not constructive, and they
> do not help, even disturb beginner .NET developers to start developing and
> releasing Web Services - they disturb by creating wrong impression that
> developing Web Services using MS software is a very complicated task. And it
> isn't.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> --
> Shamil
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 7:21 PM
> To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
> 
> Shamil,
> 
> I understand that only people who have problems write comments about the problems they have.  I also 
> understand that if someone uses VS.Net to write both ends of the channel then the probability of 
> problems drops dramatically.
> 
> I would not characterize such comments a "junk" however, I believe that such problems are very real, 
> particularly when you are dealing with disparate technologies on either end. The article itself was 
> found in the C# start page, and he was having problems using .Net to try to talk to a service 
> created in some other technology (from the little I actually understood).
> 
> What I found daunting was the gobbledegook of terms and technologies being discussed.  It certainly 
> appeared to me that the majority of these "junk" comments were .Net developers trying to use .Net to 
> subscribe (if that is the correct phrase) to services that were created in some other technology. 
> Who had to do so for business reasons, in their work.
> 
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com 
> 
> 
> Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote:
>> Hi John,
>>
>> I did read comments from the ref you quoted here - they are a usual "junk"
> -
>> I mean real developers who use MS software do not waste time on writing
>> comments how bad this MS software is :) I can assure you (as many other
>> developers here) it's not that bad as you can find reading all that "junk
>> comments".
>>
>> BTW, I liked this comment, which I classify as very helpful, and coming
> from
>> experienced developer (as I also am BTW :)O:
>>
>> <<<<<<<<<<
>> Ben Kloosterman, 21 June 2009, 20:38:34 (Pacific Standard Time, UTC-08:00)
>>
>> The problem is not with WCF (or Axis) but with people who choose overly
>> complicated scenarios. WCF is far superior to Axis though because Services
>> framework allow things people use them. 
>>
>> eg 
>> - Security 95% of the time no transport security/encryption is sufficient.
>> - Use custom headers dont fudge it like the article , this method is very
>> common .
>> - Use complicated types , inheritcance , interfaces , collections etc ..
>> KISS and use the DTO pattern. ( DOnt pollute your business domain with the
>> need to tranport it)
>>
>> The big advantage REST has is you cant do the fancy things but everything
>> you can do with REST you can do with WCF and keep it or even more simple. 
>>
>> Ben
>>
>> And BTW, my current proposal is to use SOAP (ASP.NET 2.0) Web Services for
>> starters - they are easier to start with = you can create such Web
> Services
>> within VS2008. Later on you can convert them to WCF/REST web services -
>> you'll just need to change interface/fa?ade in most of the cases.
>>
>> And a sample Web Service I created here is exactly a SOAP web service:
>>
>> http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx 
>>
>> You can find comments on its interface in P.S. of this message. And you
> can
>> consume this web service using sample code I provided in my previous
>> postings within this thread. (All the C# code for this Web Service
> including
>> comments is about 270+ code lines long - and that's all you have to write
> -
>> no need to code manually .wsdl etc. )
>>
>> Some of my experience with Web Services:
>>
>> 1) One of my overseas customers (WA) did use web service running on my
>> hosting site (Moscow, Russia, and it runs within common application pool)
>> for several months. And this web service was queried dozen times within a
>> second from his programs running on 5+ computers from his LAN there.
> Result:
>> no any major trouble at all.
>>
>> 2) Another customer does use web service developed here to synchronize
>> two-way "field-force automation" local MS SQL Express databases with
> central
>> MS SQL database running behind large ASP.NET application. No problem.
>>
>> Etc.
>>
>> Recap: Stop reading "junk comments", start acting.
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> --
>> Shamil
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 


From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Sun Aug 30 18:30:02 2009
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 09:30:02 +1000
Subject: [dba-VB] SPAM-LOW:  Re:  Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <4A9AFABC.9000101@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>,
	<4A9AF65A.10563.18F51086@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>,
	<4A9AFABC.9000101@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <4A9B0B7A.29443.1947931F@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

The only reason it "goes away" is because web services use the standard HTTP port 80 
which is open by default on most routers.   That means there is no configuration needed on 
the client machines.  

But you will still need "IT" to configure the router and set up port forwarding to point to the 
server hosting the web service.  Of course, this is not an issue where you set up a web 
service on a public web server, but that is not what you are trying to do - you want 
something hosted internally which can access your internal file systems and databases and 
interface in a controlled manner with other machines.

There's nothing to stop you from using the same port 80 for your own TCP/IP Listener 
application. 

You can also any of the other "standard" ports which are likely to be open on a router such 
as FTP (21), SMTP(25),  POP3(110) etc

I have a couple of such Listener applications which do the sort of things you are after, but 
they are written in PB/Win - if you want to look at them to get a better idea of oterh way you 
can do this, I will send the source to you off line.


-- 
Stuart



On 30 Aug 2009 at 18:18, jwcolby wrote:

> Thanks Stuart.
> 
> I believe one of the implications of the service route was that the whole TCP/IP address / port 
> thing goes away, IOW it can get through a firewall without having to get the intervention of IT.
> 
> I am listening to all points of view.  Luckily I am in no hurry here, it will be six months or more 
> before I need to solve this problem, or even have the requisite knowledge.
> 
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com
> 
> 
> Stuart McLachlan wrote:
> > WCF, SOAP, Web Services etc are necessary if you are exposing services to all and 
> > sundry on the web.
> > 
> > There are far simpler ways to exchange data when you have control of both the client and 
> > the server. These other methods do not require you to set up a web server and publish a 
> > schema which then opens up your data to the whole world.  Take a look at a simple TCPIP 
> > client/server solution first.  Here's a simple one in VB .Net 
> > 
> > http://www.eggheadcafe.com/articles/20020323.asp
> > 
> > This could be easily modified to do the sort of thing you are after, with the Listener 
> > application doing most of the work.
> > 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 




From ebarro at verizon.net  Sun Aug 30 23:25:00 2009
From: ebarro at verizon.net (Eric Barro)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 21:25:00 -0700
Subject: [dba-VB] SPAM-LOW:  Re:  Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <4A9B0B7A.29443.1947931F@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>,
	<4A9AF65A.10563.18F51086@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>,
	<4A9AFABC.9000101@colbyconsulting.com>
	<4A9B0B7A.29443.1947931F@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
Message-ID: <83793773C208434D94153FDCDEAC4BB8@advancedinput.com>

Didn't the original spec indicate that the CSV file would be dropped into a
web location where the client machines could pick them up?

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 4:30 PM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SPAM-LOW: Re: Access data across the internet

The only reason it "goes away" is because web services use the standard HTTP
port 80 
which is open by default on most routers.   That means there is no
configuration needed on 
the client machines.  

But you will still need "IT" to configure the router and set up port
forwarding to point to the server hosting the web service.  Of course, this
is not an issue where you set up a web service on a public web server, but
that is not what you are trying to do - you want something hosted internally
which can access your internal file systems and databases and interface in a
controlled manner with other machines.

There's nothing to stop you from using the same port 80 for your own TCP/IP
Listener application. 

You can also any of the other "standard" ports which are likely to be open
on a router such as FTP (21), SMTP(25),  POP3(110) etc

I have a couple of such Listener applications which do the sort of things
you are after, but they are written in PB/Win - if you want to look at them
to get a better idea of oterh way you can do this, I will send the source to
you off line.


--
Stuart



On 30 Aug 2009 at 18:18, jwcolby wrote:

> Thanks Stuart.
> 
> I believe one of the implications of the service route was that the whole
TCP/IP address / port 
> thing goes away, IOW it can get through a firewall without having to get
the intervention of IT.
> 
> I am listening to all points of view.  Luckily I am in no hurry here, it
will be six months or more 
> before I need to solve this problem, or even have the requisite knowledge.
> 
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com
> 
> 
> Stuart McLachlan wrote:
> > WCF, SOAP, Web Services etc are necessary if you are exposing services
to all and 
> > sundry on the web.
> > 
> > There are far simpler ways to exchange data when you have control of
both the client and 
> > the server. These other methods do not require you to set up a web
server and publish a 
> > schema which then opens up your data to the whole world.  Take a look at
a simple TCPIP 
> > client/server solution first.  Here's a simple one in VB .Net 
> > 
> > http://www.eggheadcafe.com/articles/20020323.asp
> > 
> > This could be easily modified to do the sort of thing you are after,
with the Listener 
> > application doing most of the work.
> > 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 


_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Mon Aug 31 01:53:13 2009
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 16:53:13 +1000
Subject: [dba-VB] SPAM-LOW:  Re:  Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <83793773C208434D94153FDCDEAC4BB8@advancedinput.com>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>,
	<4A9B0B7A.29443.1947931F@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>,
	<83793773C208434D94153FDCDEAC4BB8@advancedinput.com>
Message-ID: <4A9B7359.15314.1ADD54A1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

No,

As I read it, John's original scenario was several client locations processing files locally with  
a shared directory structure in the main location. He was looking at ways to share the 
directory structure and move files to and from it over the internet. 

No web at all.

-- 
Stuart


On 30 Aug 2009 at 21:25, Eric Barro wrote:

> Didn't the original spec indicate that the CSV file would be dropped into a
> web location where the client machines could pick them up?
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan
> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 4:30 PM
> To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SPAM-LOW: Re: Access data across the internet
> 
> The only reason it "goes away" is because web services use the standard HTTP
> port 80 
> which is open by default on most routers.   That means there is no
> configuration needed on 
> the client machines.  
> 
> But you will still need "IT" to configure the router and set up port
> forwarding to point to the server hosting the web service.  Of course, this
> is not an issue where you set up a web service on a public web server, but
> that is not what you are trying to do - you want something hosted internally
> which can access your internal file systems and databases and interface in a
> controlled manner with other machines.
> 
> There's nothing to stop you from using the same port 80 for your own TCP/IP
> Listener application. 
> 
> You can also any of the other "standard" ports which are likely to be open
> on a router such as FTP (21), SMTP(25),  POP3(110) etc
> 
> I have a couple of such Listener applications which do the sort of things
> you are after, but they are written in PB/Win - if you want to look at them
> to get a better idea of oterh way you can do this, I will send the source to
> you off line.
> 
> 
> --
> Stuart
> 
> 
> 
> On 30 Aug 2009 at 18:18, jwcolby wrote:
> 
> > Thanks Stuart.
> > 
> > I believe one of the implications of the service route was that the whole
> TCP/IP address / port 
> > thing goes away, IOW it can get through a firewall without having to get
> the intervention of IT.
> > 
> > I am listening to all points of view.  Luckily I am in no hurry here, it
> will be six months or more 
> > before I need to solve this problem, or even have the requisite knowledge.
> > 
> > John W. Colby
> > www.ColbyConsulting.com
> > 
> > 
> > Stuart McLachlan wrote:
> > > WCF, SOAP, Web Services etc are necessary if you are exposing services
> to all and 
> > > sundry on the web.
> > > 
> > > There are far simpler ways to exchange data when you have control of
> both the client and 
> > > the server. These other methods do not require you to set up a web
> server and publish a 
> > > schema which then opens up your data to the whole world.  Take a look at
> a simple TCPIP 
> > > client/server solution first.  Here's a simple one in VB .Net 
> > > 
> > > http://www.eggheadcafe.com/articles/20020323.asp
> > > 
> > > This could be easily modified to do the sort of thing you are after,
> with the Listener 
> > > application doing most of the work.
> > > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > dba-VB mailing list
> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 




From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Mon Aug 31 04:57:19 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 13:57:19 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <4dd71a0c0908301447s1c1fc75cw1eac8e9761f2a50@mail.gmail.com>
References: <sa9b0a54.021@cactus.dk>
	<4dd71a0c0908301447s1c1fc75cw1eac8e9761f2a50@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <006801ca2a21$6ed969f0$4c8c3dd0$@spb.ru>

Hi Doug,

You can read about/investigate Amazon Web Services (AWS):

http://aws.amazon.com/

The fact is that many businesses are built using AWS, and the number of such
businesses is only growing day by day...

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 1:48 AM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
ubject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet

Hi Gustav (and Shamil)

I've been following this discussion with some interest.  My impression of
web services is that they are basically for publishing information (like a
parts catalogue) which could be read and used by clients.  I gather that
this is not the whole picture.

I've spent several hours on the web recently trying to get more information;
however I have yet to stumble on a site which gives a clear explanation
and/or some practical examples.  Do you have any good references?

Thanks,

Doug Steele

On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 2:24 PM, Gustav Brock <Gustav at cactus.dk> wrote:

> Hi John
>
> I'll have to second Shamil. When I joined an early presentation of Windows
> Communication Foundation it was the first time I began understanding what
> web services are about - all other info had been bits and pieces, some
> working but none with the big picture. WCF is so well thought out that you
> can say "this time MS got it right".
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


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The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

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From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Mon Aug 31 04:57:19 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 13:57:19 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] How to Consume a Web Service (Request for Help, not urgent)
Message-ID: <006901ca2a21$702c01a0$508404e0$@spb.ru>

Hi All,

 

I'd be very grateful if anybody could go through the following
sample/workthrough using VS2008 SP1

 

"How to Consume a Web Service"

http://johnwsaundersiii.spaces.live.com/?_c11_BlogPart_BlogPart=blogview&_c=
BlogPart&partqs=amonth%3d5%26ayear%3d2009

(watch line wraps)

 

and publish for download/send me privately the sources you'll get. I can't
get this sample working on my system (something is still wrong with my
system setup), and I wanted to compare your sources with the ones I'm
getting here to find out how to solve this "nightmarish" issue.

 

If all will work well it should take several minutes to make the sample
working on your system assuming you have VS2008 SP1 and Windows SDK
installed.

 

Please do not try to look for workarounds if the above sample will not work
out of the box as described - looking for such workaround can take hours and
hours  (and solution depends on your system (current) context/previous
setups I believe) - you'll risk to lose your working day.

 

Solution/workaround should be simple, effective and generic - I still can't
find it nor by myself nor by intensive Googling/Binging.

 

Thank you.

 

--

Shamil

 

 

 



From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Mon Aug 31 04:57:19 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 13:57:19 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] SPAM-LOW:  Re:  Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <4A9B016D.7000709@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <sa9b0a54.021@cactus.dk> <4A9B016D.7000709@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <006e01ca2a21$7177bb80$54673280$@spb.ru>

Hi John,

Still I'd advised you to start with SOAP services, which work out of the
box...

If you start with WCF Web Services I do hope/wish you were luckier than
hundreds (and hundreds) of folks "fighting" with infamous:

"WCF Service reference to IIS-hosted WCF nightmares"
http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/wcf/thread/0db19bc8-2bc4-4306-
a124-65b80849c0e3/ 

which doesn't have a common solution AFAIK. Have I missed it for VS2008 SP1?

The solution depends, I believe, on "proper" setup sequence of several
components of your system, BTW, don't forget to setup proper Windows SDK
(7.0), which is needed to develop WCF Web Services.

If the following sample/workthrough will work well for you out of the box

"How to Consume a Web Service"
http://johnwsaundersiii.spaces.live.com/?_c11_BlogPart_BlogPart=blogview&_c=
BlogPart&partqs=amonth%3d5%26ayear%3d2009

you'll be a lucky guy.

It doesn't yet work here on my development PC, and WCF per se works well - I
have programmed WCF-based inter-process communication programs, some other
WCF samples I have got ready to use also worked OK but creation from scratch
in VS2008 SP1 of very simple WCF web service (as in the referred above
sample) - it doesn't work here yet...

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 2:47 AM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SPAM-LOW: Re: Access data across the internet

OK, I have a couple of books on the way on WCF.  Looks like light reading!

;)

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi John
> 
> I'll have to second Shamil. When I joined an early presentation of Windows
Communication Foundation it was the first time I began understanding what
web services are about - all other info had been bits and pieces, some
working but none with the big picture. WCF is so well thought out that you
can say "this time MS got it right".
> 
> Also note, that the guy at the blog is not having an issue with WCF but
states that "I still need to get the WCF client to talk to this unusual
endpoint".
> Unfortunately, this is an example of how blogs can be a total waste of
time. This guy obviously knows what he talks about but - like Shamil - I
browsed the comments (before reading Shamil's message here on the same) only
to find them talking in East and West with no useful or educating info
except one - the same that Shamil has quoted previously.
> 
> For any other project than your current very simple one I would happily go
with WCF.
> 
> /gustav
> 
> 
>>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 30-08-2009 20:13 >>>
> Hi John,
> 
> OK.
> 
> <<<
> What I found daunting was the gobbledegook of terms and technologies being
> discussed.
> John, if I'd tell you - do not bother about this "gobbledegook" now would
> you accept my advice?
> I mean you do not need to know all that stuff until you'll really need it
-
> you can just start developing and releasing SOAP Web Services - it's not
> that complicated. 
> 
> I do share Ben Kloosterman's opinion: "The problem is not with WCF (or
Axis)
> (or SOAP) but with people who choose overly complicated scenarios"...
> 
> I called comments "junk" because most of them are not constructive, and
they
> do not help, even disturb beginner .NET developers to start developing and
> releasing Web Services - they disturb by creating wrong impression that
> developing Web Services using MS software is a very complicated task. And
it
> isn't.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> --
> Shamil
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 7:21 PM
> To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
> 
> Shamil,
> 
> I understand that only people who have problems write comments about the
problems they have.  I also 
> understand that if someone uses VS.Net to write both ends of the channel
then the probability of 
> problems drops dramatically.
> 
> I would not characterize such comments a "junk" however, I believe that
such problems are very real, 
> particularly when you are dealing with disparate technologies on either
end. The article itself was 
> found in the C# start page, and he was having problems using .Net to try
to talk to a service 
> created in some other technology (from the little I actually understood).
> 
> What I found daunting was the gobbledegook of terms and technologies being
discussed.  It certainly 
> appeared to me that the majority of these "junk" comments were .Net
developers trying to use .Net to 
> subscribe (if that is the correct phrase) to services that were created in
some other technology. 
> Who had to do so for business reasons, in their work.
> 
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com 
> 
> 
> Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote:
>> Hi John,
>>
>> I did read comments from the ref you quoted here - they are a usual
"junk"
> -
>> I mean real developers who use MS software do not waste time on writing
>> comments how bad this MS software is :) I can assure you (as many other
>> developers here) it's not that bad as you can find reading all that "junk
>> comments".
>>
>> BTW, I liked this comment, which I classify as very helpful, and coming
> from
>> experienced developer (as I also am BTW :)O:
>>
>> <<<<<<<<<<
>> Ben Kloosterman, 21 June 2009, 20:38:34 (Pacific Standard Time,
UTC-08:00)
>>
>> The problem is not with WCF (or Axis) but with people who choose overly
>> complicated scenarios. WCF is far superior to Axis though because
Services
>> framework allow things people use them. 
>>
>> eg 
>> - Security 95% of the time no transport security/encryption is
sufficient.
>> - Use custom headers dont fudge it like the article , this method is very
>> common .
>> - Use complicated types , inheritcance , interfaces , collections etc ..
>> KISS and use the DTO pattern. ( DOnt pollute your business domain with
the
>> need to tranport it)
>>
>> The big advantage REST has is you cant do the fancy things but everything
>> you can do with REST you can do with WCF and keep it or even more simple.

>>
>> Ben
>>
>> And BTW, my current proposal is to use SOAP (ASP.NET 2.0) Web Services
for
>> starters - they are easier to start with = you can create such Web
> Services
>> within VS2008. Later on you can convert them to WCF/REST web services -
>> you'll just need to change interface/fa?ade in most of the cases.
>>
>> And a sample Web Service I created here is exactly a SOAP web service:
>>
>> http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx 
>>
>> You can find comments on its interface in P.S. of this message. And you
> can
>> consume this web service using sample code I provided in my previous
>> postings within this thread. (All the C# code for this Web Service
> including
>> comments is about 270+ code lines long - and that's all you have to write
> -
>> no need to code manually .wsdl etc. )
>>
>> Some of my experience with Web Services:
>>
>> 1) One of my overseas customers (WA) did use web service running on my
>> hosting site (Moscow, Russia, and it runs within common application pool)
>> for several months. And this web service was queried dozen times within a
>> second from his programs running on 5+ computers from his LAN there.
> Result:
>> no any major trouble at all.
>>
>> 2) Another customer does use web service developed here to synchronize
>> two-way "field-force automation" local MS SQL Express databases with
> central
>> MS SQL database running behind large ASP.NET application. No problem.
>>
>> Etc.
>>
>> Recap: Stop reading "junk comments", start acting.
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> --
>> Shamil
> 
> 





From Gustav at cactus.dk  Mon Aug 31 07:05:23 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 14:05:23 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
Message-ID: <sa9bd8b7.033@cactus.dk>

Hi Stuart and John

Except that the main location could be placed in "the cloud":

http://www.jungledisk.com/desktop/how.aspx 

This service - which among other things mimics a drive letter - uses Amazon as the storage. 

The Amazon storage can, of course, be accessed directly, for example via the S3 service:

http://aws.amazon.com/s3/ 

Also: 
<quote>
LitS3 is a library written in C# that provides comprehensive and straightforward access to Amazon S3 for .NET developers. 
</quote>

http://code.google.com/p/lits3/ 

Fascinating tiny amount of code. Unfortunately I haven't had the time to play with even though we do have an Amazon account up and running.

/gustav


>>> "Stuart McLachlan" <stuart at lexacorp.com.pg> 31-08-2009 08:53 >>>
No,

As I read it, John's original scenario was several client locations processing files locally with  
a shared directory structure in the main location. He was looking at ways to share the 
directory structure and move files to and from it over the internet. 

No web at all.

-- 
Stuart


On 30 Aug 2009 at 21:25, Eric Barro wrote:

> Didn't the original spec indicate that the CSV file would be dropped into a
> web location where the client machines could pick them up?
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan
> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 4:30 PM
> To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SPAM-LOW: Re: Access data across the internet
> 
> The only reason it "goes away" is because web services use the standard HTTP port 80 
> which is open by default on most routers.   That means there is no configuration needed on 
> the client machines.  
> 
> But you will still need "IT" to configure the router and set up port
> forwarding to point to the server hosting the web service.  Of course, this
> is not an issue where you set up a web service on a public web server, but
> that is not what you are trying to do - you want something hosted internally
> which can access your internal file systems and databases and interface in a
> controlled manner with other machines.
> 
> There's nothing to stop you from using the same port 80 for your own TCP/IP
> Listener application. 
> 
> You can also any of the other "standard" ports which are likely to be open
> on a router such as FTP (21), SMTP(25),  POP3(110) etc
> 
> I have a couple of such Listener applications which do the sort of things
> you are after, but they are written in PB/Win - if you want to look at them
> to get a better idea of oterh way you can do this, I will send the source to
> you off line.
> 
> 
> --
> Stuart
> 
> 
> 
> On 30 Aug 2009 at 18:18, jwcolby wrote:
> 
> > Thanks Stuart.
> > 
> > I believe one of the implications of the service route was that the whole TCP/IP address / port 
> > thing goes away, IOW it can get through a firewall without having to get the intervention of IT.
> > 
> > I am listening to all points of view.  Luckily I am in no hurry here, it will be six months or more 
> > before I need to solve this problem, or even have the requisite knowledge.
> > 
> > John W. Colby
> > www.ColbyConsulting.com 




From Gustav at cactus.dk  Mon Aug 31 07:06:20 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 14:06:20 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
Message-ID: <sa9bd8f3.034@cactus.dk>

Hi Doug

If you ask for an example of a public service, an example is here - from the EU to provide validation of VAT registration of companies of the EU:

http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/vies/api/checkVatPort?wsdl

It is very simple as no user credentials are requested, thus it should work with most clients.

/gustav


>>> dbdoug at gmail.com 30-08-2009 23:47 >>>
Hi Gustav (and Shamil)

I've been following this discussion with some interest.  My impression of
web services is that they are basically for publishing information (like a
parts catalogue) which could be read and used by clients.  I gather that
this is not the whole picture.

I've spent several hours on the web recently trying to get more information;
however I have yet to stumble on a site which gives a clear explanation
and/or some practical examples.  Do you have any good references?

Thanks,

Doug Steele




From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Mon Aug 31 07:32:42 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 08:32:42 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] SPAM-LOW:  Re:  Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <83793773C208434D94153FDCDEAC4BB8@advancedinput.com>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>,
	<4A9AF65A.10563.18F51086@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>,
	<4A9AFABC.9000101@colbyconsulting.com>	<4A9B0B7A.29443.1947931F@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
	<83793773C208434D94153FDCDEAC4BB8@advancedinput.com>
Message-ID: <4A9BC2EA.5050005@colbyconsulting.com>

The system already exists and works.  What happens is that there are two scanners which are used to 
turn documents into tables using Omnipage.  Those CSV files are dropped into a well defined 
directory structure on a disk drive "somewhere".  ATM everything is done locally, inside of a 
network in a SOHO.

So right now... a user scans a document into Omnipage.  Inside of Omnipage she uses her mouse to 
surround (swipe) areas of the document that is data that is going into a table.  Omnipage then turns 
the swiped areas into a CSV file, which the user then stores to a specific location.  These are 
invoices which go into a state/program/subprogram kind of structure.

As soon as the document is on the hard disk as a csv, the application opens the CSV and loads it 
into a temp table which has a field1, field2, ... field12 format.  Each field maps to a named field 
in another table but at this level the field mapping is not done.

A processes occurs which attempts to fix OCR errors.  The scanner may decide that an l is a one or 
vice versa, a zero is an oh. Stuff like that.  So the user runs the process to fix OCR errors.  Once 
the OCR errors are fixed the application maps the field1 ... fields in the temp table into the 
correct fields in a destination table, and the user then looks at the data.  The end objective is to 
perform an analysis on an invoice looking for errors.  Big money involved, thousands or millions of 
dollars, and the invoices come from organizations who don't necessarily use high tech tools to 
generate the invoices, so lots of errors are found.

Once the analysis is done the application stores the data table back out to a specific location, in 
a fixed width US Government standard format.  Eventually the data is shipped back to the client.

This thing is dead simple for you and I as experienced developers.  A directory structure, an 
import, an OCR correction process, a set of mapping queries to move raw data to the invoice table. 
Once the user finishes the analysis, an export back out to a destination folder.

What is happening now is that the client wants to bring his daughters in as employees, but have them 
work from home.  He already has an employee in another state doing some "dispute resolution" work 
for him.  So he wants a central server in his home office where all the documents go.  His daughters 
will work on the application but need may need to access document CSV files that were scanned and 
are physically located in another state.  And of course dump the processed file back to a server in 
another state.

My solution to that need was to use Hamachi to set up a VPN network that everybody joins.  The 
server is on it, each remote user is on it.  The VPN network exposes a mapped directory, which is 
mapped to X:.  That X: now contains that directory structure where all files are stored.  So to the 
user, it appears that they have a local drive X: but that drive is actually a directory on a server 
several states away.

The application simply pulls the CSV files from the X: drive and writes the result files back to the 
X: drive.  The application already pulls documents from a mapped drive, now the drive just happens 
to map to a server in another state.  No change to the APP.

In order to test, I have already done this mapping the client's server as my X: drive, and also 
setting up a mapped folder on my server, remoting in and running the application where my shared 
drive is mapped to the X: drive on his system.  It definitely works.

The speed was not great (30 seconds for the biggest file) when working on files on the client's 
server, a PIII 500mhz 256m RAM Windows XP.

OTOH it was about 9 seconds when running the application on that remote server and pulling the data 
off of my server.

It was about 5 seconds running completely local on his end, so the trip over the internet "cost" 
about 4 seconds when talking to a modern server.

So we are discussing replacing a working application, a software VPN - Hamachi - and a mapped drive, 
with a web service that reads and writes files to a server.  The service would need to run on the 
server I assume, which means getting that server running IIS.  BTW the client purchased a new DELL 
box with XP installed to act as the server.  I would have to get IIS running, write the services to 
read and write files, and write something for the existing application to connect to the services to 
perform the reads and writes.  I assume that I would have to read the files to a local drive and 
then run the import as I do now (this is currently Access).  Write the files locally and then send 
them via the service back to the server.

Again, I am rewriting this application to C#.  In C# this whole thing might very well make sense, 
since I could just read the stream from the web service and place the results directly into a table. 
  Using the current Access App I would have to do some modifications to a working app to interface 
to the service.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Eric Barro wrote:
> Didn't the original spec indicate that the CSV file would be dropped into a
> web location where the client machines could pick them up?
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan
> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 4:30 PM
> To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SPAM-LOW: Re: Access data across the internet
> 
> The only reason it "goes away" is because web services use the standard HTTP
> port 80 
> which is open by default on most routers.   That means there is no
> configuration needed on 
> the client machines.  
> 
> But you will still need "IT" to configure the router and set up port
> forwarding to point to the server hosting the web service.  Of course, this
> is not an issue where you set up a web service on a public web server, but
> that is not what you are trying to do - you want something hosted internally
> which can access your internal file systems and databases and interface in a
> controlled manner with other machines.
> 
> There's nothing to stop you from using the same port 80 for your own TCP/IP
> Listener application. 
> 
> You can also any of the other "standard" ports which are likely to be open
> on a router such as FTP (21), SMTP(25),  POP3(110) etc
> 
> I have a couple of such Listener applications which do the sort of things
> you are after, but they are written in PB/Win - if you want to look at them
> to get a better idea of oterh way you can do this, I will send the source to
> you off line.
> 
> 
> --
> Stuart
> 
> 
> 
> On 30 Aug 2009 at 18:18, jwcolby wrote:
> 
>> Thanks Stuart.
>>
>> I believe one of the implications of the service route was that the whole
> TCP/IP address / port 
>> thing goes away, IOW it can get through a firewall without having to get
> the intervention of IT.
>> I am listening to all points of view.  Luckily I am in no hurry here, it
> will be six months or more 
>> before I need to solve this problem, or even have the requisite knowledge.
>>
>> John W. Colby
>> www.ColbyConsulting.com
>>
>>
>> Stuart McLachlan wrote:
>>> WCF, SOAP, Web Services etc are necessary if you are exposing services
> to all and 
>>> sundry on the web.
>>>
>>> There are far simpler ways to exchange data when you have control of
> both the client and 
>>> the server. These other methods do not require you to set up a web
> server and publish a 
>>> schema which then opens up your data to the whole world.  Take a look at
> a simple TCPIP 
>>> client/server solution first.  Here's a simple one in VB .Net 
>>>
>>> http://www.eggheadcafe.com/articles/20020323.asp
>>>
>>> This could be easily modified to do the sort of thing you are after,
> with the Listener 
>>> application doing most of the work.
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> dba-VB mailing list
>> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
>> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 


From Gustav at cactus.dk  Mon Aug 31 12:21:15 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 19:21:15 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet. Now: Look up EU	VAT
	No.
Message-ID: <sa9c22be.048@cactus.dk>

Hi Doug et al

I just tested this with the code referred to by Shamil:

"How to Consume a Web Service"

http://johnwsaundersiii.spaces.live.com/?_c11_BlogPart_BlogPart=blogview&_c=BlogPart&partqs=amonth%3d5%26ayear%3d2009

I created another service reference, ServiceEuViesCheckReference, and ran this code:

            using (var svc = new ServiceEuViesCheckReference.checkVatPortTypeClient())
            {
                string countryCode = "DK";
                string vatNumber = "12002696";
                bool valid = false;
                string name = String.Empty;
                string address = String.Empty;
                DateTime responseDate = svc.checkVat(
                    ref countryCode, ref vatNumber,
                    out valid, out name, out address);
                Console.WriteLine(responseDate.ToShortDateString());
                Console.WriteLine(valid.ToString());
                Console.WriteLine(name);
                Console.WriteLine(address);
                Console.Write("Press a key");
                Console.ReadLine();
            }

This returns correctly:

---
31-08-2009
True
CACTUS DATA APS
KALKBR?NDERIL?BSKAJ 4A

2100 K?BENHAVN ?
Press a key
---

This is fun!
Response time is about 1 second.

/gustav


>>> Gustav at cactus.dk 31-08-2009 14:06 >>>
Hi Doug

If you ask for an example of a public service, an example is here - from the EU to provide validation of VAT registration of companies of the EU:

http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/vies/api/checkVatPort?wsdl 

It is very simple as no user credentials are requested, thus it should work with most clients.

/gustav


>>> dbdoug at gmail.com 30-08-2009 23:47 >>>
Hi Gustav (and Shamil)

I've been following this discussion with some interest.  My impression of
web services is that they are basically for publishing information (like a
parts catalogue) which could be read and used by clients.  I gather that
this is not the whole picture.

I've spent several hours on the web recently trying to get more information;
however I have yet to stumble on a site which gives a clear explanation
and/or some practical examples.  Do you have any good references?

Thanks,

Doug Steele




From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Mon Aug 31 12:29:26 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 21:29:26 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] How to Consume a Web Service (Request for Help,
	not urgent)
In-Reply-To: <006901ca2a21$702c01a0$508404e0$@spb.ru>
References: <006901ca2a21$702c01a0$508404e0$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <00a301ca2a60$97e5b080$c7b11180$@spb.ru>

Hi All,

I have got a helping hand from Mike, Gustav and Doug who happened to be
"Lucky Guys" (thank you guys!) - they have referred below sample working
well "out of the box".

This sample solution (in Mike's interpretation) is posted here:

http://northwind.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=26600#D
ownloadId=81391  (~65KB)

It can be used as a test to see if your system is "WCF Web Services
Development Ready".

It has now WCF web service reference set OK (as this reference setting
happened on Mike's VS2008) but when I run it I'm getting runtime error:

"The communication object, System.ServiceModel.Channels.ServiceChannel,
cannot be used for communication because it is in the Faulted state."

I'm currently "digging further" trying to make this sample working on my
system - here is some information I'm looking through:

How to make sure you don't get WCF Faulted State Exception?
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/530731/how-to-make-sure-you-dont-get-wcf-
faulted-state-exception 

Avoiding Problems with the Using Statement
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa355056.aspx 

I will inform you on my further progress (if any).

Thank you for your help.

--
Shamil

P.S. I haven't been "fighting" with this issue all the working day through,
I was already in swimming pool with my kid etc. - yet this issue is one of
the representative cases what make software development so "heavy" sometimes
- the best/quickest solutions for such issues seems to be clean reinstalls
of the systems, and having just latest release versions of MS software on
that systems: still have to find time/resources to prepare something like
that - this current case could be the "last drop"...


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil
Salakhetdinov
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 1:57 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: [dba-VB] How to Consume a Web Service (Request for Help, not
urgent)

Hi All,

 

I'd be very grateful if anybody could go through the following
sample/workthrough using VS2008 SP1

 

"How to Consume a Web Service"

http://johnwsaundersiii.spaces.live.com/?_c11_BlogPart_BlogPart=blogview&_c=
BlogPart&partqs=amonth%3d5%26ayear%3d2009

(watch line wraps)

 

and publish for download/send me privately the sources you'll get. I can't
get this sample working on my system (something is still wrong with my
system setup), and I wanted to compare your sources with the ones I'm
getting here to find out how to solve this "nightmarish" issue.

 

If all will work well it should take several minutes to make the sample
working on your system assuming you have VS2008 SP1 and Windows SDK
installed.

 

Please do not try to look for workarounds if the above sample will not work
out of the box as described - looking for such workaround can take hours and
hours  (and solution depends on your system (current) context/previous
setups I believe) - you'll risk to lose your working day.

 

Solution/workaround should be simple, effective and generic - I still can't
find it nor by myself nor by intensive Googling/Binging.

 

Thank you.

 

--

Shamil

 

 

 

_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4383 (20090831) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru


 

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database 4384 (20090831) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 



From dbdoug at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 12:40:47 2009
From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 10:40:47 -0700
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet. Now: Look up EU VAT
	No.
In-Reply-To: <sa9c22be.048@cactus.dk>
References: <sa9c22be.048@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <4dd71a0c0908311040v43addfc1v87423638d5e799e3@mail.gmail.com>

That's too easy!  Takes about a second here (west coast of Canada).

Doug

On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 10:21 AM, Gustav Brock <Gustav at cactus.dk> wrote:

> Hi Doug et al
>
> I created another service reference, ServiceEuViesCheckReference, and ran
> this code:
>
>            using (var svc = new
> ServiceEuViesCheckReference.checkVatPortTypeClient())
>            {
>                string countryCode = "DK";
>                string vatNumber = "12002696";
>                bool valid = false;
>                string name = String.Empty;
>                string address = String.Empty;
>                DateTime responseDate = svc.checkVat(
>                    ref countryCode, ref vatNumber,
>                    out valid, out name, out address);
>                Console.WriteLine(responseDate.ToShortDateString());
>                Console.WriteLine(valid.ToString());
>                Console.WriteLine(name);
>                Console.WriteLine(address);
>                Console.Write("Press a key");
>                Console.ReadLine();
>            }
>
> This returns correctly:
>
> ---
> 31-08-2009
> True
> CACTUS DATA APS
> KALKBR?NDERIL?BSKAJ 4A
>
> 2100 K?BENHAVN ?
> Press a key
> ---
>
> This is fun!
> Response time is about 1 second.
>
>


From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Mon Aug 31 12:54:23 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 21:54:23 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet. Now: Look up EU
	VAT	No.
In-Reply-To: <4dd71a0c0908311040v43addfc1v87423638d5e799e3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <sa9c22be.048@cactus.dk>
	<4dd71a0c0908311040v43addfc1v87423638d5e799e3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00a901ca2a64$142e3830$3c8aa890$@spb.ru>

<<<
That's too easy!  
>>>
Yes, C# (VB.NET) development is usually a way easier than VB6/VBA - I mean
that! :)
Of course one need some time to get on speed with .NET Framework, C# and/or
VB.NET...

Well, it may happen you'll get some cases as with WCF Web Services and my
system but if you compare how much such cases did you have with
VB6/VBA/"DLL-Hell" then you'll definitely love .NET Framework/C#/VB.NET
development...

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 9:41 PM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet. Now: Look up EU VAT
No.

That's too easy!  Takes about a second here (west coast of Canada).

Doug

On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 10:21 AM, Gustav Brock <Gustav at cactus.dk> wrote:

> Hi Doug et al
>
> I created another service reference, ServiceEuViesCheckReference, and ran
> this code:
>
>            using (var svc = new
> ServiceEuViesCheckReference.checkVatPortTypeClient())
>            {
>                string countryCode = "DK";
>                string vatNumber = "12002696";
>                bool valid = false;
>                string name = String.Empty;
>                string address = String.Empty;
>                DateTime responseDate = svc.checkVat(
>                    ref countryCode, ref vatNumber,
>                    out valid, out name, out address);
>                Console.WriteLine(responseDate.ToShortDateString());
>                Console.WriteLine(valid.ToString());
>                Console.WriteLine(name);
>                Console.WriteLine(address);
>                Console.Write("Press a key");
>                Console.ReadLine();
>            }
>
> This returns correctly:
>
> ---
> 31-08-2009
> True
> CACTUS DATA APS
> KALKBR?NDERIL?BSKAJ 4A
>
> 2100 K?BENHAVN ?
> Press a key
> ---
>
> This is fun!
> Response time is about 1 second.
>
>
_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


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database 4384 (20090831) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 




From DWUTKA at Marlow.com  Mon Aug 31 14:55:53 2009
From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 14:55:53 -0500
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <4A9ACA3D.3040206@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <A5615CBECEC42E4791D7A7C724E1E9B202447AFA@MIEXCH.Marlow.ii-vi.net>

Hey JC, just going to chime in a bit.  I've developed both web based
apps, and apps that use a VPN connection.

There are advantages to both.  One of the primary advantages of a web
interface, however, is that you are centralizing your processing.  And
you are only sending 'snapshots' of your interface back and forth.

If what you have built works fine over a standard web connection and a
VPN, I'd keep it the way you have it.  If it gets sluggish, then a web
interface would probably speed things up quite a bit.

Drew

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 1:52 PM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet

Shamil,

I understand and mostly agree with your opinions.  Of course I will
accept your advice, start small, 
and not worry about the gobbledygook..

 > I do share Ben Kloosterman's opinion: "The problem is not with WCF
(or Axis) (or SOAP) but with 
people who choose overly complicated scenarios"...

I have to smile because you are recommending soap web services, to
someone just coming up to speed 
on C# (taking a beginners class!) to replace a dead simple to implement
software VPN and a shared 
directory!

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com

The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity 
to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business 
Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender 
immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. 
You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, 
or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons 
or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited.




From DWUTKA at Marlow.com  Mon Aug 31 17:13:52 2009
From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 17:13:52 -0500
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <4dd71a0c0908301447s1c1fc75cw1eac8e9761f2a50@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A5615CBECEC42E4791D7A7C724E1E9B202447AFF@MIEXCH.Marlow.ii-vi.net>

Not the whole picture at all.  

I've always recommended classic asp, to learn some of the ins and outs
of web programming.  There really are three types of web programming.  

Server side (asp, asp.net (sort of), php, etc.).  Server side code is
the guts of your system.  This is where all of your business logic would
be, and this also determines what the end user sees.

Client Side (javascript, java, VBScript, ASP.Net etc).  Client side
scripting is code that will manipulate the page the user has received,
from their computer (so 'disconnected' from the system).  The exception
is ASP.Net.  ASP.Net combines server side and client side with a mix of
code, (automated by ASP.Net).  An example would be a button click.  In a
VBA situation, you can write code behind the OnClick event of a button,
and have that code do whatever you want.  In classic asp, it can
'create' the button, even create client side code, but the asp code
itself is unaware of when the button is pressed.  With ASP.Net, you get
an OnClick event, so it looks like it's something that runs on the
server, but the reality is that ASP.Net is using client side code to
interact with the server.

Formatting code (HTML, Flash, etc.).  How your web page looks is going
to be based on the code used to display your system in a browser.  HTML
is it's own beast, but really not too difficult to get the hang of.

I recommend playing around with classic ASP and HTML, and stay away from
client side scripting initially.  You can build very complex (and well
running) systems with just those two.  ASP.Net and/or the addition of
client side scripting can make certain things easier for the user (but a
little more difficult on the complexity of the code (client side
scripting is notorious for being picky about browsers).

ASP.Net is a VERY powerful tool, but it uses an internally constructed
Client/server scripting combination.  Which gives you TONS of abilities
because of this, but it also comes with a lot of consequences. 

To learn ASP classic, it's just five root objects, with VBScripting.

Drew



-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 4:48 PM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet

Hi Gustav (and Shamil)

I've been following this discussion with some interest.  My impression
of
web services is that they are basically for publishing information (like
a
parts catalogue) which could be read and used by clients.  I gather that
this is not the whole picture.

I've spent several hours on the web recently trying to get more
information;
however I have yet to stumble on a site which gives a clear explanation
and/or some practical examples.  Do you have any good references?

Thanks,

Doug Steele

On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 2:24 PM, Gustav Brock <Gustav at cactus.dk> wrote:

> Hi John
>
> I'll have to second Shamil. When I joined an early presentation of
Windows
> Communication Foundation it was the first time I began understanding
what
> web services are about - all other info had been bits and pieces, some
> working but none with the big picture. WCF is so well thought out that
you
> can say "this time MS got it right".
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com

The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity 
to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business 
Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender 
immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. 
You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, 
or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons 
or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited.




From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Mon Aug 31 17:28:49 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 02:28:49 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] How to Consume a Web Service (Request for Help,
	not urgent)
In-Reply-To: <00a301ca2a60$97e5b080$c7b11180$@spb.ru>
References: <006901ca2a21$702c01a0$508404e0$@spb.ru>
	<00a301ca2a60$97e5b080$c7b11180$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <00c601ca2a8a$6c0c7690$442563b0$@spb.ru>

Hi All,

I have finally got the following runtime error messages:

<<<
Unable to connect to the remote server
Could not connect to http://localhost:59057/Service1.svc. 
TCP error code 10061:
No connection could be made because the target machine actively refused it 
127.0.0.1:59057.
>>>

And I'm not working with any remote servers here - this is just one system
I'm testing on/working with.

I have tried to suppress firewall completely, I have tried to open 59057
port - no luck...

The issue (they tell somewhere) could be also that this machine has several
NICs - usual cable and wireless etc.

Googling/Binging didn't give any clues to solve the issue effectively.

I'm leaving it for now for the "better times"...

I have "Pro WCF, Practical Microsoft SOA Implementation" book - I should
probably read it very carefully through to understand every bit in WCF
configuration and functioning... (BTW, I didn't need to read any books and
almost no any docs to implement several SOAP (.asmx) ASP.NET Web Services,
which work successfully in production for several years, and they work well
on this my system I'm currently "struggling with very basic WCF Web Service"
- it could be a bad day here also today...)

Still I think that modern MS technologies are great and easy to use :)

Thank you for your help.

--
Shamil


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil
Salakhetdinov
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 9:29 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] How to Consume a Web Service (Request for Help, not
urgent)

Hi All,

I have got a helping hand from Mike, Gustav and Doug who happened to be
"Lucky Guys" (thank you guys!) - they have referred below sample working
well "out of the box".

This sample solution (in Mike's interpretation) is posted here:

http://northwind.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=26600#D
ownloadId=81391  (~65KB)

It can be used as a test to see if your system is "WCF Web Services
Development Ready".

It has now WCF web service reference set OK (as this reference setting
happened on Mike's VS2008) but when I run it I'm getting runtime error:

"The communication object, System.ServiceModel.Channels.ServiceChannel,
cannot be used for communication because it is in the Faulted state."

I'm currently "digging further" trying to make this sample working on my
system - here is some information I'm looking through:

How to make sure you don't get WCF Faulted State Exception?
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/530731/how-to-make-sure-you-dont-get-wcf-
faulted-state-exception 

Avoiding Problems with the Using Statement
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa355056.aspx 

I will inform you on my further progress (if any).

Thank you for your help.

--
Shamil

P.S. I haven't been "fighting" with this issue all the working day through,
I was already in swimming pool with my kid etc. - yet this issue is one of
the representative cases what make software development so "heavy" sometimes
- the best/quickest solutions for such issues seems to be clean reinstalls
of the systems, and having just latest release versions of MS software on
that systems: still have to find time/resources to prepare something like
that - this current case could be the "last drop"...


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil
Salakhetdinov
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 1:57 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: [dba-VB] How to Consume a Web Service (Request for Help, not
urgent)

Hi All,

 

I'd be very grateful if anybody could go through the following
sample/workthrough using VS2008 SP1

 

"How to Consume a Web Service"

http://johnwsaundersiii.spaces.live.com/?_c11_BlogPart_BlogPart=blogview&_c=
BlogPart&partqs=amonth%3d5%26ayear%3d2009

(watch line wraps)

 

and publish for download/send me privately the sources you'll get. I can't
get this sample working on my system (something is still wrong with my
system setup), and I wanted to compare your sources with the ones I'm
getting here to find out how to solve this "nightmarish" issue.

 

If all will work well it should take several minutes to make the sample
working on your system assuming you have VS2008 SP1 and Windows SDK
installed.

 

Please do not try to look for workarounds if the above sample will not work
out of the box as described - looking for such workaround can take hours and
hours  (and solution depends on your system (current) context/previous
setups I believe) - you'll risk to lose your working day.

 

Solution/workaround should be simple, effective and generic - I still can't
find it nor by myself nor by intensive Googling/Binging.

 

Thank you.

 

--

Shamil

 

 


 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4385 (20090831) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 



From fhtapia at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 16:41:02 2009
From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 14:41:02 -0700
Subject: [dba-VB] QueryStringParameter error
In-Reply-To: <07C21F79042A4BDD98A27EF049A0B312@advancedinput.com>
References: <b874372a0907292138i26f1e15cqe798a75e0282ccbe@mail.gmail.com>
	<07C21F79042A4BDD98A27EF049A0B312@advancedinput.com>
Message-ID: <b874372a0908051441s29a8f7f7ja7a962f0fdc7fb46@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry for the late reply I had to shelf the project for a few days as I had
other things going... I am the DBA at my company and also do work on our new
SAP BI system (just learning that system) but I do get involved in server
maintenance and any other project that somehow ends up at my feet because
it's cool, fun or needs to be done :| it's just the way it is :)

but to get back to the problem, what I did was to create a surrogate PKID on
this table for languages named pkid and auto numbered, and the technique I
posted of earlier, now works :), so that bridge is now crossed.

I will say this, the Access version of this app was completed the same day
and within about 1hr of this long long asp.net project that has gone on for
weeks :(.



-Francisco
http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More...


On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 9:48 PM, Eric Barro <ebarro at verizon.net> wrote:

>  Francico,
>
> I haven't really worked with the syntax you show below but I've seen a
> buddy
> of mine use it as well. Try and put Response.Write(intLanguage) in your
> code
> to debug and see if it is passing the value.
>
> Eric
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco Tapia
> Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 9:39 PM
> To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
> Subject: [dba-VB] QueryStringParameter error
>
> Hi,
>  I've not been active on this list at all, but I do have a quick question
> someone here may have already ran into.  I am working on an ASP.NET(visual
> studio 2008) and I created a few pages that all work fairly similarly,
> where
> there is a GridView on the main Entity page, and Add pages along with Edit
> pages created with Details View controls.  In the GridView page, I add an
> edit button and the link points the
> ~/language/EditLanguage.aspx?intLanguage={0}.  On the receiving page I
> edited the SELECT command with the proper WHERE clause as WHERE
> intLanguage=
> @intLanguage.  The QueryStringParameter is as follows:
> <SelectParameters>
>            <asp:QueryStringParameter Name="intLanguage"
> QueryStringField="intLanguage" />
>        </SelectParameters>
>
> so this is the same for my other pages such as my Release page and my
> Category page and both work fine, but the language page is different... the
> PKID is the intLanguage field, but it's not an autoincremented number
> (since
> this project is still in it's infancy, I've thought about adding a true
> surrogate PKID and see if that is the problem...
>
> note, If i edit the select command w/o the where, the page loads fine (well
> w/o the parameter being passed so my DetailsView control only displays the
> first record in the recordset, I'm new to ASP.NET and don't really know
> how
> to troubleshoot this.... any ideas?
>
> -Francisco
> http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More...
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>


From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Fri Aug  7 05:43:37 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 14:43:37 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] "Google Maps Navigator" Sample MS Access Application
Message-ID: <005301ca174b$ecbdd3d0$c6397b70$@spb.ru>

Hi All,

 

Have you ever tried to work with Google Maps in MS Access application via MS
Web Browser control?

To do some simple navigation you can use URLs like the following:

 

Finland

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo
<http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=65,27&spn=5,5>
&mode=preview&ll=65,27&spn=5,5 

 

Using this approach I have made a simple sample application, which
screenshot you can see here:

 

http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/temp/GoogleMapsNavigator.jpg

 

My question is: Do you know what format of URLs to use to show just a map?

 

I know there exist the Google Maps API
(http://code.google.com/intl/en-EN/apis/maps/) for advanced usage of Google
Maps via JavaScript but I wanted to try to bypass usage of that API this
time.

 

For the ones interested to experiment via simple Google Maps navigation
approach I have posted MS Access sample application here:

 

http://northwind.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=26600 

 

You can download it using the following URL(watch line wraps):

http://northwind.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=26600#D
ownloadId=78352  (175KB)

 

Our Northwind.CodePlex.com team could use the above approach + Google Maps
API in .NET sample application.

 

More advanced question is: Is there any way to react in MS Access hosting
form's VBA code to the changes done in Google Maps map, e.g. Zoom-in/out,
Move of map .? I mean when Zoon-in/out happens there should be AJAX (Google
Maps API) calls to the Google server - are there any web browser events,
corresponding to that API calls?(I know Browser navigation can be trapped
via web browser events but this isn't the question.) 

 

Thank you.

 

--

Shamil

 

P.S. Some more sample URLs:

 

Finland

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=65,27&spn=5,5

 

UK

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=55,-3&spn=6,6

 

Mexico

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=23,-102&spn=10,10

 

Italy

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=41,12&spn=5,5

 

Australia

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=-25,133&spn=20,20

 

Japan

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=36,138&spn=5,5

 

Madagascar

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=-18,46&spn=10,16



From mmattys at rochester.rr.com  Fri Aug  7 07:49:04 2009
From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 08:49:04 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] "Google Maps Navigator" Sample MS Access Application
References: <005301ca174b$ecbdd3d0$c6397b70$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <9EF9E3348B99401E91E492472CCF227F@Mattys>

Hi Shamil,

I'll take a look - this is of interest to me.

-
Michael R Mattys
MapPoint and Database Dev
www.mattysconsulting.com
-
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Shamil Salakhetdinov" <shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru>
To: "'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'" 
<dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 6:43 AM
Subject: [dba-VB] "Google Maps Navigator" Sample MS Access Application


> Hi All,
>
>
>
> Have you ever tried to work with Google Maps in MS Access application via 
> MS
> Web Browser control?
>
> To do some simple navigation you can use URLs like the following:
>
>
>
> Finland
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo
> <http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=65,27&spn=5,5>
> &mode=preview&ll=65,27&spn=5,5
>
>
>
> Using this approach I have made a simple sample application, which
> screenshot you can see here:
>
>
>
> http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/temp/GoogleMapsNavigator.jpg
>
>
>
> My question is: Do you know what format of URLs to use to show just a map?
>
>
>
> I know there exist the Google Maps API
> (http://code.google.com/intl/en-EN/apis/maps/) for advanced usage of 
> Google
> Maps via JavaScript but I wanted to try to bypass usage of that API this
> time.
>
>
>
> For the ones interested to experiment via simple Google Maps navigation
> approach I have posted MS Access sample application here:
>
>
>
> http://northwind.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=26600
>
>
>
> You can download it using the following URL(watch line wraps):
>
> http://northwind.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=26600#D
> ownloadId=78352  (175KB)
>
>
>
> Our Northwind.CodePlex.com team could use the above approach + Google Maps
> API in .NET sample application.
>
>
>
> More advanced question is: Is there any way to react in MS Access hosting
> form's VBA code to the changes done in Google Maps map, e.g. Zoom-in/out,
> Move of map .? I mean when Zoon-in/out happens there should be AJAX 
> (Google
> Maps API) calls to the Google server - are there any web browser events,
> corresponding to that API calls?(I know Browser navigation can be trapped
> via web browser events but this isn't the question.)
>
>
>
> Thank you.
>
>
>
> --
>
> Shamil
>
>
>
> P.S. Some more sample URLs:
>
>
>
> Finland
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=65,27&spn=5,5
>
>
>
> UK
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=55,-3&spn=6,6
>
>
>
> Mexico
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=23,-102&spn=10,10
>
>
>
> Italy
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=41,12&spn=5,5
>
>
>
> Australia
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=-25,133&spn=20,20
>
>
>
> Japan
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=36,138&spn=5,5
>
>
>
> Madagascar
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=-18,46&spn=10,16
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 



From max.wanadoo at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 11:21:04 2009
From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 17:21:04 +0100
Subject: [dba-VB] "Google Maps Navigator" Sample MS Access Application
In-Reply-To: <005301ca174b$ecbdd3d0$c6397b70$@spb.ru>
References: <005301ca174b$ecbdd3d0$c6397b70$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <4a7c54b1.0a04d00a.07ea.2b62@mx.google.com>

Shamil, I *think* Google provides a lot of APIs for this sort of stuff.

Max


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil
Salakhetdinov
Sent: 07 August 2009 11:44
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: [dba-VB] "Google Maps Navigator" Sample MS Access Application

Hi All,

 

Have you ever tried to work with Google Maps in MS Access application via MS
Web Browser control?

To do some simple navigation you can use URLs like the following:

 

Finland

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo
<http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=65,27&spn=5,5>
&mode=preview&ll=65,27&spn=5,5 

 

Using this approach I have made a simple sample application, which
screenshot you can see here:

 

http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/temp/GoogleMapsNavigator.jpg

 

My question is: Do you know what format of URLs to use to show just a map?

 

I know there exist the Google Maps API
(http://code.google.com/intl/en-EN/apis/maps/) for advanced usage of Google
Maps via JavaScript but I wanted to try to bypass usage of that API this
time.

 

For the ones interested to experiment via simple Google Maps navigation
approach I have posted MS Access sample application here:

 

http://northwind.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=26600 

 

You can download it using the following URL(watch line wraps):

http://northwind.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=26600#D
ownloadId=78352  (175KB)

 

Our Northwind.CodePlex.com team could use the above approach + Google Maps
API in .NET sample application.

 

More advanced question is: Is there any way to react in MS Access hosting
form's VBA code to the changes done in Google Maps map, e.g. Zoom-in/out,
Move of map .? I mean when Zoon-in/out happens there should be AJAX (Google
Maps API) calls to the Google server - are there any web browser events,
corresponding to that API calls?(I know Browser navigation can be trapped
via web browser events but this isn't the question.) 

 

Thank you.

 

--

Shamil

 

P.S. Some more sample URLs:

 

Finland

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=65,27&spn=5,5

 

UK

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=55,-3&spn=6,6

 

Mexico

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=23,-102&spn=10,10

 

Italy

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=41,12&spn=5,5

 

Australia

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=-25,133&spn=20,20

 

Japan

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=36,138&spn=5,5

 

Madagascar

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=-18,46&spn=10,16

_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From mmattys at rochester.rr.com  Fri Aug  7 11:43:13 2009
From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 12:43:13 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] "Google Maps Navigator" Sample MS Access Application
References: <005301ca174b$ecbdd3d0$c6397b70$@spb.ru>
	<4a7c54b1.0a04d00a.07ea.2b62@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <78954CFB9B7E441FA0B6ED708815CE40@Mattys>

Hi Max,

Imagine if you could do all of it in Access, though.
Seems like AJAX could be duplicated through VBA or WSH,
which are client-side, instead of Javascript and XMLHTTPRequest
-
Michael R Mattys
MapPoint and Database Dev
www.mattysconsulting.com
-

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Max Wanadoo" <max.wanadoo at gmail.com>
To: "'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'" 
<dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 12:21 PM
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] "Google Maps Navigator" Sample MS Access Application


> Shamil, I *think* Google provides a lot of APIs for this sort of stuff.
>
> Max
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil
> Salakhetdinov
> Sent: 07 August 2009 11:44
> To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
> Subject: [dba-VB] "Google Maps Navigator" Sample MS Access Application
>
> Hi All,
>
>
>
> Have you ever tried to work with Google Maps in MS Access application via 
> MS
> Web Browser control?
>
> To do some simple navigation you can use URLs like the following:
>
>
>
> Finland
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo
> <http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=65,27&spn=5,5>
> &mode=preview&ll=65,27&spn=5,5
>
>
>
> Using this approach I have made a simple sample application, which
> screenshot you can see here:
>
>
>
> http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/temp/GoogleMapsNavigator.jpg
>
>
>
> My question is: Do you know what format of URLs to use to show just a map?
>
>
>
> I know there exist the Google Maps API
> (http://code.google.com/intl/en-EN/apis/maps/) for advanced usage of 
> Google
> Maps via JavaScript but I wanted to try to bypass usage of that API this
> time.
>
>
>
> For the ones interested to experiment via simple Google Maps navigation
> approach I have posted MS Access sample application here:
>
>
>
> http://northwind.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=26600
>
>
>
> You can download it using the following URL(watch line wraps):
>
> http://northwind.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=26600#D
> ownloadId=78352  (175KB)
>
>
>
> Our Northwind.CodePlex.com team could use the above approach + Google Maps
> API in .NET sample application.
>
>
>
> More advanced question is: Is there any way to react in MS Access hosting
> form's VBA code to the changes done in Google Maps map, e.g. Zoom-in/out,
> Move of map .? I mean when Zoon-in/out happens there should be AJAX 
> (Google
> Maps API) calls to the Google server - are there any web browser events,
> corresponding to that API calls?(I know Browser navigation can be trapped
> via web browser events but this isn't the question.)
>
>
>
> Thank you.
>
>
>
> --
>
> Shamil
>
>
>
> P.S. Some more sample URLs:
>
>
>
> Finland
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=65,27&spn=5,5
>
>
>
> UK
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=55,-3&spn=6,6
>
>
>
> Mexico
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=23,-102&spn=10,10
>
>
>
> Italy
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=41,12&spn=5,5
>
>
>
> Australia
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=-25,133&spn=20,20
>
>
>
> Japan
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=36,138&spn=5,5
>
>
>
> Madagascar
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=-18,46&spn=10,16
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 



From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Fri Aug  7 13:31:39 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 22:31:39 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] "Google Maps Navigator" Sample MS Access Application
In-Reply-To: <78954CFB9B7E441FA0B6ED708815CE40@Mattys>
References: <005301ca174b$ecbdd3d0$c6397b70$@spb.ru>	<4a7c54b1.0a04d00a.07ea.2b62@mx.google.com>
	<78954CFB9B7E441FA0B6ED708815CE40@Mattys>
Message-ID: <006d01ca178d$4f9569a0$eec03ce0$@spb.ru>

Hi Mike and Max,

Thank you for your feedback.

Not sure yet here what(how) I wanted to solve my task, which should behave
something like this sample:

http://graargh.returnstrue.com/rajdeep/maps/tools/latlong_tool/v7/lat-long-t
ool_v7.html

but with "clicked" location information "feeded back" to MS Access host
form's VBA code and then stored to MS Access database as well as MS Access
form "setting the scene" (current map) and "drawing bubbles" on that map for
selected on MS Access form's controls locations, and presenting information
on what property/geoobject is situated "under the bubble" ....

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mike Mattys
Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 8:43 PM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] "Google Maps Navigator" Sample MS Access Application

Hi Max,

Imagine if you could do all of it in Access, though.
Seems like AJAX could be duplicated through VBA or WSH,
which are client-side, instead of Javascript and XMLHTTPRequest
-
Michael R Mattys
MapPoint and Database Dev
www.mattysconsulting.com
-

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Max Wanadoo" <max.wanadoo at gmail.com>
To: "'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'" 
<dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 12:21 PM
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] "Google Maps Navigator" Sample MS Access Application


> Shamil, I *think* Google provides a lot of APIs for this sort of stuff.
>
> Max
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil
> Salakhetdinov
> Sent: 07 August 2009 11:44
> To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
> Subject: [dba-VB] "Google Maps Navigator" Sample MS Access Application
>
> Hi All,
>
>
>
> Have you ever tried to work with Google Maps in MS Access application via 
> MS
> Web Browser control?
>
> To do some simple navigation you can use URLs like the following:
>
>
>
> Finland
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo
> <http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=65,27&spn=5,5>
> &mode=preview&ll=65,27&spn=5,5
>
>
>
> Using this approach I have made a simple sample application, which
> screenshot you can see here:
>
>
>
> http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/temp/GoogleMapsNavigator.jpg
>
>
>
> My question is: Do you know what format of URLs to use to show just a map?
>
>
>
> I know there exist the Google Maps API
> (http://code.google.com/intl/en-EN/apis/maps/) for advanced usage of 
> Google
> Maps via JavaScript but I wanted to try to bypass usage of that API this
> time.
>
>
>
> For the ones interested to experiment via simple Google Maps navigation
> approach I have posted MS Access sample application here:
>
>
>
> http://northwind.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=26600
>
>
>
> You can download it using the following URL(watch line wraps):
>
>
http://northwind.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=26600#D
> ownloadId=78352  (175KB)
>
>
>
> Our Northwind.CodePlex.com team could use the above approach + Google Maps
> API in .NET sample application.
>
>
>
> More advanced question is: Is there any way to react in MS Access hosting
> form's VBA code to the changes done in Google Maps map, e.g. Zoom-in/out,
> Move of map .? I mean when Zoon-in/out happens there should be AJAX 
> (Google
> Maps API) calls to the Google server - are there any web browser events,
> corresponding to that API calls?(I know Browser navigation can be trapped
> via web browser events but this isn't the question.)
>
>
>
> Thank you.
>
>
>
> --
>
> Shamil
>
>
>
> P.S. Some more sample URLs:
>
>
>
> Finland
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=65,27&spn=5,5
>
>
>
> UK
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=55,-3&spn=6,6
>
>
>
> Mexico
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=23,-102&spn=10,10
>
>
>
> Italy
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=41,12&spn=5,5
>
>
>
> Australia
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=-25,133&spn=20,20
>
>
>
> Japan
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=36,138&spn=5,5
>
>
>
> Madagascar
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=-18,46&spn=10,16
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 

_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4315 (20090807) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru





From max.wanadoo at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 15:26:13 2009
From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 21:26:13 +0100
Subject: [dba-VB] "Google Maps Navigator" Sample MS Access Application
In-Reply-To: <006d01ca178d$4f9569a0$eec03ce0$@spb.ru>
References: <005301ca174b$ecbdd3d0$c6397b70$@spb.ru>	<4a7c54b1.0a04d00a.07ea.2b62@mx.google.com>	<78954CFB9B7E441FA0B6ED708815CE40@Mattys>
	<006d01ca178d$4f9569a0$eec03ce0$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <4a7c8dfb.0707d00a.26a7.4dd6@mx.google.com>

Some Links: (Wraps??)

http://www.google.co.uk/enterprise/maps/#utm_campaign=en&utm_source=en-ha-em
ea-gb-sk_devs&utm_medium=ha&utm_term=google%20maps%20api


http://code.google.com/apis/maps/index.html

http://code.google.com/apis/maps/documentation/examples/

Some code:

function initialize() {
  if (GBrowserIsCompatible()) {
    var map = new GMap2(document.getElementById("map_canvas"));
    map.setCenter(new GLatLng(37.4419, -122.1419), 13);
  }
}



Max




From Gustav at cactus.dk  Fri Aug  7 17:02:32 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 00:02:32 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] "Google Maps Navigator" Sample MS Access	Application
Message-ID: <sa7cc0a7.011@cactus.dk>

Hi Shamil

I'm not familiar with the MS Web Browser control but in .Net I have used this URL to display just the map:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=da&geocode=&q=kalkbr%C3%A6nderil%C3%B8bskaj+4+a,+denmark&sll=46.377254,-86.484375&sspn=28.638122,54.84375&ie=UTF8&t=p&s=AARTsJo6QIZIUSLZJjht_Zf2KrLNZ8c1xw&ll=55.720439,12.595997&spn=0.01692,0.036478&z=14&iwloc=addr&output=embed

Maybe you can decode its parts for your purpose.

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 07-08-2009 12:43 >>>
Hi All,

Have you ever tried to work with Google Maps in MS Access application via MS
Web Browser control?

To do some simple navigation you can use URLs like the following:

Finland

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=65,27&spn=5,5 

Using this approach I have made a simple sample application, which
screenshot you can see here:

http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/temp/GoogleMapsNavigator.jpg 

My question is: Do you know what format of URLs to use to show just a map?

I know there exist the Google Maps API
(http://code.google.com/intl/en-EN/apis/maps/) for advanced usage of Google
Maps via JavaScript but I wanted to try to bypass usage of that API this
time.

For the ones interested to experiment via simple Google Maps navigation
approach I have posted MS Access sample application here:

http://northwind.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=26600 

You can download it using the following URL(watch line wraps):

http://northwind.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=26600#DownloadId=78352  (175KB)

Our Northwind.CodePlex.com team could use the above approach + Google Maps
API in .NET sample application.

More advanced question is: Is there any way to react in MS Access hosting
form's VBA code to the changes done in Google Maps map, e.g. Zoom-in/out,
Move of map .? I mean when Zoon-in/out happens there should be AJAX (Google
Maps API) calls to the Google server - are there any web browser events,
corresponding to that API calls?(I know Browser navigation can be trapped
via web browser events but this isn't the question.) 

Thank you.

--

Shamil

P.S. Some more sample URLs:

Finland

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=65,27&spn=5,5 

UK

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=55,-3&spn=6,6 

Mexico

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=23,-102&spn=10,10 

Italy

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=41,12&spn=5,5 

Australia

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=-25,133&spn=20,20 

Japan

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=36,138&spn=5,5 

Madagascar

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=-18,46&spn=10,16 





From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Fri Aug  7 17:08:55 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 02:08:55 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] "Google Maps Navigator" Sample MS Access Application
In-Reply-To: <4a7c8dfb.0707d00a.26a7.4dd6@mx.google.com>
References: <005301ca174b$ecbdd3d0$c6397b70$@spb.ru>	<4a7c54b1.0a04d00a.07ea.2b62@mx.google.com>	<78954CFB9B7E441FA0B6ED708815CE40@Mattys>	<006d01ca178d$4f9569a0$eec03ce0$@spb.ru>
	<4a7c8dfb.0707d00a.26a7.4dd6@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <007a01ca17ab$a974c8d0$fc5e5a70$@spb.ru>

Hi Max,

Thank you for the links - I have found especially useful currently this one:

GoogleMaps API Samples
http://code.google.com/intl/ru-RU/apis/maps/documentation/examples/

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo
Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 12:26 AM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] "Google Maps Navigator" Sample MS Access Application

Some Links: (Wraps??)

http://www.google.co.uk/enterprise/maps/#utm_campaign=en&utm_source=en-ha-em
ea-gb-sk_devs&utm_medium=ha&utm_term=google%20maps%20api


http://code.google.com/apis/maps/index.html

http://code.google.com/apis/maps/documentation/examples/

Some code:

function initialize() {
  if (GBrowserIsCompatible()) {
    var map = new GMap2(document.getElementById("map_canvas"));
    map.setCenter(new GLatLng(37.4419, -122.1419), 13);
  }
}



Max


_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4316 (20090807) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru


 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4316 (20090807) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 



From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Fri Aug  7 17:26:11 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 02:26:11 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] "Google Maps Navigator" Sample MS Access	Application
In-Reply-To: <sa7cc0a7.011@cactus.dk>
References: <sa7cc0a7.011@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <007b01ca17ae$126a1190$373e34b0$@spb.ru>

HI Gustav,

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 2:03 AM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] "Google Maps Navigator" Sample MS Access Application

Hi Shamil

I'm not familiar with the MS Web Browser control but in .Net I have used
this URL to display just the map:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=da&geocode=&q=kalkbr%C3%A6nder
il%C3%B8bskaj+4+a,+denmark&sll=46.377254,-86.484375&sspn=28.638122,54.84375&
ie=UTF8&t=p&s=AARTsJo6QIZIUSLZJjht_Zf2KrLNZ8c1xw&ll=55.720439,12.595997&spn=
0.01692,0.036478&z=14&iwloc=addr&output=embed

Maybe you can decode its parts for your purpose.

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 07-08-2009 12:43 >>>
Hi All,

Have you ever tried to work with Google Maps in MS Access application via MS
Web Browser control?

To do some simple navigation you can use URLs like the following:

Finland

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=65,27&spn=5,5 

Using this approach I have made a simple sample application, which
screenshot you can see here:

http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/temp/GoogleMapsNavigator.jpg 

My question is: Do you know what format of URLs to use to show just a map?

I know there exist the Google Maps API
(http://code.google.com/intl/en-EN/apis/maps/) for advanced usage of Google
Maps via JavaScript but I wanted to try to bypass usage of that API this
time.

For the ones interested to experiment via simple Google Maps navigation
approach I have posted MS Access sample application here:

http://northwind.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=26600 

You can download it using the following URL(watch line wraps):

http://northwind.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=26600#D
ownloadId=78352  (175KB)

Our Northwind.CodePlex.com team could use the above approach + Google Maps
API in .NET sample application.

More advanced question is: Is there any way to react in MS Access hosting
form's VBA code to the changes done in Google Maps map, e.g. Zoom-in/out,
Move of map .? I mean when Zoon-in/out happens there should be AJAX (Google
Maps API) calls to the Google server - are there any web browser events,
corresponding to that API calls?(I know Browser navigation can be trapped
via web browser events but this isn't the question.) 

Thank you.

--

Shamil

P.S. Some more sample URLs:

Finland

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=65,27&spn=5,5 

UK

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=55,-3&spn=6,6 

Mexico

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=23,-102&spn=10,10 

Italy

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=41,12&spn=5,5 

Australia

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=-25,133&spn=20,20 

Japan

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=36,138&spn=5,5 

Madagascar

http://maps.google.com/maps?type=photo&mode=preview&ll=-18,46&spn=10,16 



_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4316 (20090807) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru


 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4316 (20090807) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

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From fhtapia at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 13:14:55 2009
From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 11:14:55 -0700
Subject: [dba-VB] Reading and Writing to XML file (VB.Net 2005)
Message-ID: <b874372a0908111114h31990dbcl3707dc1f36cc974e@mail.gmail.com>

So it's been a while since I've done any programming in .net and this step
is something I've never done in .net, I've done it in Access and VB in the
past and involved writing classes, but am wondering how it's approached in
.net  (also for beginner vb.net you can point me to site you prefer if you
like)

my task.

I have a simple .net app, it queries a database and populates a DataGridView
control.  I purpose of this app is that it reads the time information from
our timeclock server so that users can easily see when their lunch or clock
out time for the day are since they have a flexibility of +/- 10min for
clocking in during the morning and at lunch.

It works well, but some users have asked for a tolerance to allow the app to
remind them as early as 10 minutes to clock out or as late as 1 min before
they absolutely need to clock out.  A settings form was then developed and
now I'm scracthing my head as I think I should store these settings into an
xml file, but thought that since I'm in .net that writing to an xml file
that was added using the add new item in my project should be simpler but
maybe I'm just wrong?



-Francisco
http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More...


From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Tue Aug 11 13:37:32 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 22:37:32 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Reading and Writing to XML file (VB.Net 2005)
In-Reply-To: <b874372a0908111114h31990dbcl3707dc1f36cc974e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b874372a0908111114h31990dbcl3707dc1f36cc974e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <004801ca1ab2$cb8b8620$62a29260$@spb.ru>

Hi Francisco,

Recommended by MS is to use:

Right-click Project Name -> Properties -> Settings

see "Settings Page, Project Designer" for more information.
see also "Application Settings".


--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco Tapia
Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 10:15 PM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: [dba-VB] Reading and Writing to XML file (VB.Net 2005)

So it's been a while since I've done any programming in .net and this step
is something I've never done in .net, I've done it in Access and VB in the
past and involved writing classes, but am wondering how it's approached in
.net  (also for beginner vb.net you can point me to site you prefer if you
like)

my task.

I have a simple .net app, it queries a database and populates a DataGridView
control.  I purpose of this app is that it reads the time information from
our timeclock server so that users can easily see when their lunch or clock
out time for the day are since they have a flexibility of +/- 10min for
clocking in during the morning and at lunch.

It works well, but some users have asked for a tolerance to allow the app to
remind them as early as 10 minutes to clock out or as late as 1 min before
they absolutely need to clock out.  A settings form was then developed and
now I'm scracthing my head as I think I should store these settings into an
xml file, but thought that since I'm in .net that writing to an xml file
that was added using the add new item in my project should be simpler but
maybe I'm just wrong?



-Francisco
http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More...
_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


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database 4326 (20090811) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru


 

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database 4326 (20090811) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 



From fhtapia at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 14:40:47 2009
From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 12:40:47 -0700
Subject: [dba-VB] Reading and Writing to XML file (VB.Net 2005)
In-Reply-To: <004801ca1ab2$cb8b8620$62a29260$@spb.ru>
References: <b874372a0908111114h31990dbcl3707dc1f36cc974e@mail.gmail.com>
	<004801ca1ab2$cb8b8620$62a29260$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <b874372a0908111240p6f84c4e4qfc5af6b1fa452da@mail.gmail.com>

That's cool! Thanks Shamil!

-Francisco
http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More...


On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 11:37 AM, Shamil Salakhetdinov <
shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru> wrote:

> Hi Francisco,
>
> Recommended by MS is to use:
>
> Right-click Project Name -> Properties -> Settings
>
> see "Settings Page, Project Designer" for more information.
> see also "Application Settings".
>
>
> --
> Shamil
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco Tapia
> Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 10:15 PM
> To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
> Subject: [dba-VB] Reading and Writing to XML file (VB.Net 2005)
>
> So it's been a while since I've done any programming in .net and this step
> is something I've never done in .net, I've done it in Access and VB in the
> past and involved writing classes, but am wondering how it's approached in
> .net  (also for beginner vb.net you can point me to site you prefer if you
> like)
>
> my task.
>
> I have a simple .net app, it queries a database and populates a
> DataGridView
> control.  I purpose of this app is that it reads the time information from
> our timeclock server so that users can easily see when their lunch or clock
> out time for the day are since they have a flexibility of +/- 10min for
> clocking in during the morning and at lunch.
>
> It works well, but some users have asked for a tolerance to allow the app
> to
> remind them as early as 10 minutes to clock out or as late as 1 min before
> they absolutely need to clock out.  A settings form was then developed and
> now I'm scracthing my head as I think I should store these settings into an
> xml file, but thought that since I'm in .net that writing to an xml file
> that was added using the add new item in my project should be simpler but
> maybe I'm just wrong?
>
>
>
> -Francisco
> http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More...
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
> signature
> database 4326 (20090811) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.esetnod32.ru
>
>
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
> signature
> database 4326 (20090811) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.esetnod32.ru
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>
>


From Gustav at cactus.dk  Fri Aug 14 09:57:40 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 16:57:40 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] Visual Studio 2008 Service Pack 1 ATL Security
	Update	(2009-08-03)
Message-ID: <sa859795.032@cactus.dk>

Hi all

For some reason I had trouble finding the download for this and had to google and look up a blog somewhere.
But here it is - 365 MB:

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?displaylang=en&FamilyID=294de390-3c94-49fb-a014-9a38580e64cb

/gustav




From Gustav at cactus.dk  Sun Aug 16 16:31:36 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 23:31:36 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] LINQ for EF Example (Part III)
Message-ID: <sa8896ff.062@cactus.dk>

Hi Shamil

This is a nice and clean example worth studying for anyone having the slightest interest in EF.
I'll see if I can find some contribution time for it this week.

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 23-07-2009 19:17 >>>

FYI: I have just got released a small VS2008 project:

- SPJWinFormsForEF_VS2008.zip - VS2008 sample project to demonstrate
WinForms and MS ReportViewer reports bound to ADO.NET Entity Framework
object datasources;
- SPJWinFormsForEF_Executables.zip - just executables and sample database
for the above sample project.

which can be used as sample to work on converting Northwind.NET to use
ADO.NET Entity Framework object data sources.

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 4:36 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] LINQ for EF Example (Part III)

Hi Shamil and team

That's fine with me.

I'm on my way with Rita (wife) to the nature of Sweden and Norway for a
relaxing break and will be back Monday 2009-08-03. Will try to view the
inbox now and then but won't promise anything ...

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-07-2009 19:29 >>>
Hi Mike and Gustav,

Thank you for your approval to team up to develop Northwind.NET for EF.
Let's first of all implement a simple sample form (Shippers, Suppliers...)
with BindingNavigator bound to object data source, and a simple sample
report (Shippers) bound to object data source, and then implement all the
other forms and reports of Northwind.NET using samples as templates?

Do you see any other ways to proceed with this project?

Thank you.

--
Shamil


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2009 11:26 AM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] LINQ for EF Example (Part III)

Hi Shamil

Of course, in lazy summer mode, as I probably will be off for a week or so
from late next week.

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 18-07-2009 14:30 >>>
Hi Mike,

Yes, "LINQ for ADO.NET Entity Framework" to be precise :)

What about teaming-up with Gustav and myself and to port our Northwind.NET
for MS SQL 2005 to "LINQ for ADO.NET Entity Framework"? Just an idea - and
doing that project in "lazy summer mode" without setting strict deadlines?

Gustav how about you?
Anybody else?

Have nice weekend.

--
Shamil





From mmattys at rochester.rr.com  Sun Aug 16 21:06:44 2009
From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 22:06:44 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] LINQ for EF Example (Part III)
References: <sa8896ff.062@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <7AACCA400CC8478C90F410420ADE9DD7@Mattys>

Hi Gustav, Shamil

This LinqPad might be handy
http://www.linqpad.net/WhyLINQBeatsSQL.aspx

-
Michael R Mattys
MapPoint and Database Dev
www.mattysconsulting.com
-

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Gustav Brock" <Gustav at cactus.dk>
To: <dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 5:31 PM
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] LINQ for EF Example (Part III)


> Hi Shamil
>
> This is a nice and clean example worth studying for anyone having the 
> slightest interest in EF.
> I'll see if I can find some contribution time for it this week.
>
> /gustav
>
>
>>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 23-07-2009 19:17 >>>
>
> FYI: I have just got released a small VS2008 project:
>
> - SPJWinFormsForEF_VS2008.zip - VS2008 sample project to demonstrate
> WinForms and MS ReportViewer reports bound to ADO.NET Entity Framework
> object datasources;
> - SPJWinFormsForEF_Executables.zip - just executables and sample database
> for the above sample project.
>
> which can be used as sample to work on converting Northwind.NET to use
> ADO.NET Entity Framework object data sources.
>
> Thank you.
>
> --
> Shamil
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
> Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 4:36 PM
> To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] LINQ for EF Example (Part III)
>
> Hi Shamil and team
>
> That's fine with me.
>
> I'm on my way with Rita (wife) to the nature of Sweden and Norway for a
> relaxing break and will be back Monday 2009-08-03. Will try to view the
> inbox now and then but won't promise anything ...
>
> /gustav
>
>



From Gustav at cactus.dk  Mon Aug 17 03:00:16 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 10:00:16 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] LINQ for EF Example (Part III)
Message-ID: <sa892a54.066@cactus.dk>

Hi Michael

Yes, it is very good. Also, with its many examples, this is a very good site to learn about the LINQ syntax.

/gustav


>>> mmattys at rochester.rr.com 17-08-2009 04:06 >>>
Hi Gustav, Shamil

This LinqPad might be handy
http://www.linqpad.net/WhyLINQBeatsSQL.aspx 

-
Michael R Mattys
MapPoint and Database Dev
www.mattysconsulting.com 
-

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Gustav Brock" <Gustav at cactus.dk>
To: <dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 5:31 PM
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] LINQ for EF Example (Part III)


> Hi Shamil
>
> This is a nice and clean example worth studying for anyone having the 
> slightest interest in EF.
> I'll see if I can find some contribution time for it this week.
>
> /gustav
>
>
>>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 23-07-2009 19:17 >>>
>
> FYI: I have just got released a small VS2008 project:
>
> - SPJWinFormsForEF_VS2008.zip - VS2008 sample project to demonstrate
> WinForms and MS ReportViewer reports bound to ADO.NET Entity Framework
> object datasources;
> - SPJWinFormsForEF_Executables.zip - just executables and sample database
> for the above sample project.
>
> which can be used as sample to work on converting Northwind.NET to use
> ADO.NET Entity Framework object data sources.
>
> Thank you.
>
> --
> Shamil
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
> Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 4:36 PM
> To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] LINQ for EF Example (Part III)
>
> Hi Shamil and team
>
> That's fine with me.
>
> I'm on my way with Rita (wife) to the nature of Sweden and Norway for a
> relaxing break and will be back Monday 2009-08-03. Will try to view the
> inbox now and then but won't promise anything ...
>
> /gustav





From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Mon Aug 17 13:15:38 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 22:15:38 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] LINQ for EF Example (Part III)
In-Reply-To: <sa8896ff.062@cactus.dk>
References: <sa8896ff.062@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <003601ca1f66$ba0bef30$2e23cd90$@spb.ru>

Hi Gistav, Mike and All,

TIA, Gistav.

I've got quite a bit of work here in the end of July/beginning-middle of
August - still can't continue with Northwind.NET for EF but we will make it
for sure.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 1:32 AM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] LINQ for EF Example (Part III)

Hi Shamil

This is a nice and clean example worth studying for anyone having the
slightest interest in EF.
I'll see if I can find some contribution time for it this week.

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 23-07-2009 19:17 >>>

FYI: I have just got released a small VS2008 project:

- SPJWinFormsForEF_VS2008.zip - VS2008 sample project to demonstrate
WinForms and MS ReportViewer reports bound to ADO.NET Entity Framework
object datasources;
- SPJWinFormsForEF_Executables.zip - just executables and sample database
for the above sample project.

which can be used as sample to work on converting Northwind.NET to use
ADO.NET Entity Framework object data sources.

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 4:36 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] LINQ for EF Example (Part III)

Hi Shamil and team

That's fine with me.

I'm on my way with Rita (wife) to the nature of Sweden and Norway for a
relaxing break and will be back Monday 2009-08-03. Will try to view the
inbox now and then but won't promise anything ...

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-07-2009 19:29 >>>
Hi Mike and Gustav,

Thank you for your approval to team up to develop Northwind.NET for EF.
Let's first of all implement a simple sample form (Shippers, Suppliers...)
with BindingNavigator bound to object data source, and a simple sample
report (Shippers) bound to object data source, and then implement all the
other forms and reports of Northwind.NET using samples as templates?

Do you see any other ways to proceed with this project?

Thank you.

--
Shamil


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2009 11:26 AM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] LINQ for EF Example (Part III)

Hi Shamil

Of course, in lazy summer mode, as I probably will be off for a week or so
from late next week.

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 18-07-2009 14:30 >>>
Hi Mike,

Yes, "LINQ for ADO.NET Entity Framework" to be precise :)

What about teaming-up with Gustav and myself and to port our Northwind.NET
for MS SQL 2005 to "LINQ for ADO.NET Entity Framework"? Just an idea - and
doing that project in "lazy summer mode" without setting strict deadlines?

Gustav how about you?
Anybody else?

Have nice weekend.

--
Shamil



_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4342 (20090817) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru


 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4343 (20090817) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 



From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Thu Aug 20 10:38:36 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 19:38:36 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications
Message-ID: <00f801ca21ac$49d8d8c0$dd8a8a40$@spb.ru>

Hi All,

 

I'm currently working on a project where I use Dynamic Data Entities Web
Applications - DDEWA-(VS2008 SP1).

 

I have tried to search Google and Bing to find some information on DDEWA but
failed.

Do you have any useful links on DDEWA?

 

Thank you.

 

--

Shamil

 



From Gustav at cactus.dk  Thu Aug 20 10:43:56 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 17:43:56 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications
Message-ID: <sa8d8b73.048@cactus.dk>

Hi Shamil

No, not me. But how did you get started on this having no info??

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 20-08-2009 17:38 >>>
Hi All,

I'm currently working on a project where I use Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications - DDEWA-(VS2008 SP1).

I have tried to search Google and Bing to find some information on DDEWA but failed.

Do you have any useful links on DDEWA?

Thank you.

--
Shamil





From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Thu Aug 20 11:06:21 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 20:06:21 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications
In-Reply-To: <sa8d8b73.048@cactus.dk>
References: <sa8d8b73.048@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <00fd01ca21b0$2a612250$7f2366f0$@spb.ru>

Hi Gustav,

VS2008 SP1: 

1. Solution: Add: New Project -> Dynamic Data Entities Web Application...
2. Project: Add: New Item -> ADO.NET Entity Data Model

The next steps are rather obvious, and Global.asax's comments give the clue
how to make the application to work.

But I can't get some more information on this type of projects. Yes, I can
investigate them but I'd prefer to have some ready to use descriptions. 

Can't find them online on MSDN....

I have just got this link, which looks interesting:

http://channel9.msdn.com/posts/matthijs/Fastest-To-Market-RAD-Web-Applicatio
ns-with-ASPNET-Dynamic-Data-and-Entity-Framework/

It's a 1+ hour video...

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 7:44 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil

No, not me. But how did you get started on this having no info??

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 20-08-2009 17:38 >>>
Hi All,

I'm currently working on a project where I use Dynamic Data Entities Web
Applications - DDEWA-(VS2008 SP1).

I have tried to search Google and Bing to find some information on DDEWA but
failed.

Do you have any useful links on DDEWA?

Thank you.

--
Shamil



_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4351 (20090820) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru


 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4351 (20090820) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 



From Gustav at cactus.dk  Thu Aug 20 11:21:31 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 18:21:31 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications
Message-ID: <sa8d943d.049@cactus.dk>

Hi Shamil

How about this, part 1 of 5:

http://www.c-sharpcorner.com/UploadFile/satisharveti/DynamicWebappln101152009023618AM/DynamicWebappln1.aspx 

Pretty basic and few illustrations only but still something.

Will see if I can find one hour for the video ...

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 20-08-2009 18:06 >>>
Hi Gustav,

VS2008 SP1: 

1. Solution: Add: New Project -> Dynamic Data Entities Web Application...
2. Project: Add: New Item -> ADO.NET Entity Data Model

The next steps are rather obvious, and Global.asax's comments give the clue
how to make the application to work.

But I can't get some more information on this type of projects. Yes, I can
investigate them but I'd prefer to have some ready to use descriptions. 

Can't find them online on MSDN....

I have just got this link, which looks interesting:

http://channel9.msdn.com/posts/matthijs/Fastest-To-Market-RAD-Web-Applications-with-ASPNET-Dynamic-Data-and-Entity-Framework/

It's a 1+ hour video...

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 7:44 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil

No, not me. But how did you get started on this having no info??

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 20-08-2009 17:38 >>>
Hi All,

I'm currently working on a project where I use Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications - DDEWA-(VS2008 SP1).

I have tried to search Google and Bing to find some information on DDEWA but failed.

Do you have any useful links on DDEWA?

Thank you.

--
Shamil





From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Thu Aug 20 14:22:49 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 23:22:49 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications
In-Reply-To: <sa8d943d.049@cactus.dk>
References: <sa8d943d.049@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <010a01ca21cb$9c846340$d58d29c0$@spb.ru>

Hi Gustav,

Thank you for the link - he parts 1 to 6 give similar to the channel9
presentation information - I watched the latter, it's a bit hectic but
useful to get general idea what Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications are
and how to customize them.

I currently plan to use Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications for initial
data entry/edit for my customer application - it works well when datamodel
is ready - just generate ASP.NET application.

I also wanted to find a way to somehow "grab" generated .aspx pages to use
them in developing custom .aspx webforms/pages: not sure yet how to do that
but it should be possible I hope as they obviously(?) generate .aspx pages
on-the-fly, and there could be a way to grab generated .aspx page before
it's getting rendered on server side...

I currently do not plan to use Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications
customization features.

Thank you.

--
Shamil 

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 8:22 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil

How about this, part 1 of 5:

http://www.c-sharpcorner.com/UploadFile/satisharveti/DynamicWebappln10115200
9023618AM/DynamicWebappln1.aspx 

Pretty basic and few illustrations only but still something.

Will see if I can find one hour for the video ...

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 20-08-2009 18:06 >>>
Hi Gustav,

VS2008 SP1: 

1. Solution: Add: New Project -> Dynamic Data Entities Web Application...
2. Project: Add: New Item -> ADO.NET Entity Data Model

The next steps are rather obvious, and Global.asax's comments give the clue
how to make the application to work.

But I can't get some more information on this type of projects. Yes, I can
investigate them but I'd prefer to have some ready to use descriptions. 

Can't find them online on MSDN....

I have just got this link, which looks interesting:

http://channel9.msdn.com/posts/matthijs/Fastest-To-Market-RAD-Web-Applicatio
ns-with-ASPNET-Dynamic-Data-and-Entity-Framework/

It's a 1+ hour video...

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 7:44 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil

No, not me. But how did you get started on this having no info??

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 20-08-2009 17:38 >>>
Hi All,

I'm currently working on a project where I use Dynamic Data Entities Web
Applications - DDEWA-(VS2008 SP1).

I have tried to search Google and Bing to find some information on DDEWA but
failed.

Do you have any useful links on DDEWA?

Thank you.

--
Shamil



_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4351 (20090820) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru


 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4353 (20090820) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 



From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Thu Aug 20 15:00:59 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 00:00:59 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications
In-Reply-To: <010a01ca21cb$9c846340$d58d29c0$@spb.ru>
References: <sa8d943d.049@cactus.dk> <010a01ca21cb$9c846340$d58d29c0$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <010b01ca21d0$f1667ba0$d43372e0$@spb.ru>

Hi All,

Here is the info from MSDN on the subject:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc488545.aspx


--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil
Salakhetdinov
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 11:23 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Gustav,

Thank you for the link - he parts 1 to 6 give similar to the channel9
presentation information - I watched the latter, it's a bit hectic but
useful to get general idea what Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications are
and how to customize them.

I currently plan to use Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications for initial
data entry/edit for my customer application - it works well when datamodel
is ready - just generate ASP.NET application.

I also wanted to find a way to somehow "grab" generated .aspx pages to use
them in developing custom .aspx webforms/pages: not sure yet how to do that
but it should be possible I hope as they obviously(?) generate .aspx pages
on-the-fly, and there could be a way to grab generated .aspx page before
it's getting rendered on server side...

I currently do not plan to use Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications
customization features.

Thank you.

--
Shamil 

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 8:22 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil

How about this, part 1 of 5:

http://www.c-sharpcorner.com/UploadFile/satisharveti/DynamicWebappln10115200
9023618AM/DynamicWebappln1.aspx 

Pretty basic and few illustrations only but still something.

Will see if I can find one hour for the video ...

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 20-08-2009 18:06 >>>
Hi Gustav,

VS2008 SP1: 

1. Solution: Add: New Project -> Dynamic Data Entities Web Application...
2. Project: Add: New Item -> ADO.NET Entity Data Model

The next steps are rather obvious, and Global.asax's comments give the clue
how to make the application to work.

But I can't get some more information on this type of projects. Yes, I can
investigate them but I'd prefer to have some ready to use descriptions. 

Can't find them online on MSDN....

I have just got this link, which looks interesting:

http://channel9.msdn.com/posts/matthijs/Fastest-To-Market-RAD-Web-Applicatio
ns-with-ASPNET-Dynamic-Data-and-Entity-Framework/

It's a 1+ hour video...

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 7:44 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil

No, not me. But how did you get started on this having no info??

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 20-08-2009 17:38 >>>
Hi All,

I'm currently working on a project where I use Dynamic Data Entities Web
Applications - DDEWA-(VS2008 SP1).

I have tried to search Google and Bing to find some information on DDEWA but
failed.

Do you have any useful links on DDEWA?

Thank you.

--
Shamil



_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4351 (20090820) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru


 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4353 (20090820) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 

_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4353 (20090820) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru


 

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The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 



From cfoust at infostatsystems.com  Thu Aug 20 17:37:24 2009
From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 15:37:24 -0700
Subject: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications
In-Reply-To: <00fd01ca21b0$2a612250$7f2366f0$@spb.ru>
References: <sa8d8b73.048@cactus.dk> <00fd01ca21b0$2a612250$7f2366f0$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <F55048AF7E974F429BB24597D7355EEABFAD70@INFOSERVER04.infostat.local>

Our project manager warned us about dynamic data entities and the MS
entity model.  No personal experience and he isn't a developer, so he's
talking about his previous job.

Charlotte Foust 

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil
Salakhetdinov
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 9:06 AM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Gustav,

VS2008 SP1: 

1. Solution: Add: New Project -> Dynamic Data Entities Web
Application...
2. Project: Add: New Item -> ADO.NET Entity Data Model

The next steps are rather obvious, and Global.asax's comments give the
clue how to make the application to work.

But I can't get some more information on this type of projects. Yes, I
can investigate them but I'd prefer to have some ready to use
descriptions. 

Can't find them online on MSDN....

I have just got this link, which looks interesting:

http://channel9.msdn.com/posts/matthijs/Fastest-To-Market-RAD-Web-Applic
atio
ns-with-ASPNET-Dynamic-Data-and-Entity-Framework/

It's a 1+ hour video...

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 7:44 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil

No, not me. But how did you get started on this having no info??

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 20-08-2009 17:38 >>>
Hi All,

I'm currently working on a project where I use Dynamic Data Entities Web
Applications - DDEWA-(VS2008 SP1).

I have tried to search Google and Bing to find some information on DDEWA
but failed.

Do you have any useful links on DDEWA?

Thank you.

--
Shamil



_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
signature database 4351 (20090820) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru


 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
signature database 4351 (20090820) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 

_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com




From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Fri Aug 21 02:57:30 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 11:57:30 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications
In-Reply-To: <F55048AF7E974F429BB24597D7355EEABFAD70@INFOSERVER04.infostat.local>
References: <sa8d8b73.048@cactus.dk> <00fd01ca21b0$2a612250$7f2366f0$@spb.ru>
	<F55048AF7E974F429BB24597D7355EEABFAD70@INFOSERVER04.infostat.local>
Message-ID: <012301ca2235$0a1e7620$1e5b6260$@spb.ru>

Hi Charlotte --

Thank you for your information.

As I noted I currently do not plan to use dynamic data entities web
applications in production but only to verify the data model design, to give
to customers/users "working model" of some of their business areas, to
prepare lookup/sample/test data: I found it very useful -  I have just
developed rather complicated data model for my customer project, clicked
several times my mouse, made a few selections, typed a few chars - and
voila' I can enter data, navigate all tables etc.

Would that be possible to get known from your project manager what are the
causes of their warnings about dynamic data entities? - I think that would
be very useful for everybody here to know about their experience to not
"step on rakes" as we say here.

BTW, customization features provided by dynamic data entities web
applications are also rather useful to implement something like "working,
real life environment simulating specification": I have got only glanced
those customization features and I have found they can be used at least to:

- develop/simulate/test some kinds of (simple) business rules/checks used
during data entry/edit;
- develop almost ready to use in ASP.NET production environment ASP.NET
custom controls.

There should be more useful features I'm quite sure.

And once again what is very important is that you can give "working model"
for your customers/users almost immediately after/during the talks with
them, they can play with it, they can get "instant fixes" for it etc. I have
checked and AFAIS ADO.NET Entity Data Model can be quickly regenerated
within VS2008 when source DB changes, and such regeneration preserves custom
edits of ADO.NET Entity Data Model objects. Good stuff. Only positive
experience so far.

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 2:37 AM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Our project manager warned us about dynamic data entities and the MS
entity model.  No personal experience and he isn't a developer, so he's
talking about his previous job.

Charlotte Foust 

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil
Salakhetdinov
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 9:06 AM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Gustav,

VS2008 SP1: 

1. Solution: Add: New Project -> Dynamic Data Entities Web
Application...
2. Project: Add: New Item -> ADO.NET Entity Data Model

The next steps are rather obvious, and Global.asax's comments give the
clue how to make the application to work.

But I can't get some more information on this type of projects. Yes, I
can investigate them but I'd prefer to have some ready to use
descriptions. 

Can't find them online on MSDN....

I have just got this link, which looks interesting:

http://channel9.msdn.com/posts/matthijs/Fastest-To-Market-RAD-Web-Applic
atio
ns-with-ASPNET-Dynamic-Data-and-Entity-Framework/

It's a 1+ hour video...

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 7:44 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil

No, not me. But how did you get started on this having no info??

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 20-08-2009 17:38 >>>
Hi All,

I'm currently working on a project where I use Dynamic Data Entities Web
Applications - DDEWA-(VS2008 SP1).

I have tried to search Google and Bing to find some information on DDEWA
but failed.

Do you have any useful links on DDEWA?

Thank you.

--
Shamil



 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4353 (20090820) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 



From Gustav at cactus.dk  Fri Aug 21 05:26:40 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 12:26:40 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications
Message-ID: <sa8e928f.060@cactus.dk>

Hi Shamil and Charlotte

I watched that video - some challenge due to the awful soundtrack - and my impression is that this dynamic data entities web is useful only for creating an interface to the complete table schema - which you hardly never use (I haven't) except for the example Shamil describes where you wish to present the full schema as well as the data content and even offer to edit this at close to zero efforts. I could imagine some kind of monitoring or admin/techie interface built this way.

For any other purpose a lot of customizing is needed which - though quite powerful, so it seems - for a decent app will take longer than building the app from scratch I guess. 

So - as I see it - this technique has its uses but app development is not on of these.

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 09:57 >>>
Hi Charlotte --

Thank you for your information.

As I noted I currently do not plan to use dynamic data entities web
applications in production but only to verify the data model design, to give
to customers/users "working model" of some of their business areas, to
prepare lookup/sample/test data: I found it very useful -  I have just
developed rather complicated data model for my customer project, clicked
several times my mouse, made a few selections, typed a few chars - and
voila' I can enter data, navigate all tables etc.

Would that be possible to get known from your project manager what are the
causes of their warnings about dynamic data entities? - I think that would
be very useful for everybody here to know about their experience to not
"step on rakes" as we say here.

BTW, customization features provided by dynamic data entities web
applications are also rather useful to implement something like "working,
real life environment simulating specification": I have got only glanced
those customization features and I have found they can be used at least to:

- develop/simulate/test some kinds of (simple) business rules/checks used during data entry/edit;
- develop almost ready to use in ASP.NET production environment ASP.NET custom controls.

There should be more useful features I'm quite sure.

And once again what is very important is that you can give "working model"
for your customers/users almost immediately after/during the talks with
them, they can play with it, they can get "instant fixes" for it etc. I have
checked and AFAIS ADO.NET Entity Data Model can be quickly regenerated
within VS2008 when source DB changes, and such regeneration preserves custom
edits of ADO.NET Entity Data Model objects. Good stuff. Only positive
experience so far.

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 2:37 AM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Our project manager warned us about dynamic data entities and the MS entity model.  No personal experience and he isn't a developer, so he's talking about his previous job.

Charlotte Foust 

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil
Salakhetdinov
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 9:06 AM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Gustav,

VS2008 SP1: 

1. Solution: Add: New Project -> Dynamic Data Entities Web Application...
2. Project: Add: New Item -> ADO.NET Entity Data Model

The next steps are rather obvious, and Global.asax's comments give the clue how to make the application to work.

But I can't get some more information on this type of projects. Yes, I can investigate them but I'd prefer to have some ready to use descriptions. 

Can't find them online on MSDN....

I have just got this link, which looks interesting:

http://channel9.msdn.com/posts/matthijs/Fastest-To-Market-RAD-Web-Applications-with-ASPNET-Dynamic-Data-and-Entity-Framework/

It's a 1+ hour video...

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 7:44 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil

No, not me. But how did you get started on this having no info??

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 20-08-2009 17:38 >>>
Hi All,

I'm currently working on a project where I use Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications - DDEWA-(VS2008 SP1).

I have tried to search Google and Bing to find some information on DDEWA but failed.

Do you have any useful links on DDEWA?

Thank you.

--
Shamil




From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Fri Aug 21 06:18:59 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 15:18:59 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications
In-Reply-To: <sa8e928f.060@cactus.dk>
References: <sa8e928f.060@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <013301ca2251$2f876c20$8e964460$@spb.ru>

Hi Gustav,

Yes, it takes "close to zero efforts" (~1 minute) to have a "web
application" for this ADO.NET entity model

http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/temp/model.jpg

which in turn was generated from MS SQL 2005 database.

<<<
...this technique has its uses but app development is not one of these...
>>>
Gustav, let me disagree with that your statement.

First of all because (sample) and lookup data entry/edit is in fact part of
our everyday real life practice of application development.

Second, because Dynamic Data Entity Web Applications (DDEWA) do help
developers to verify their data modeling decisions by "effortlessly" giving
"working models" in hands of (power-)users, and when users/developers find
there are some mistakes in those decisions then DDEWA help to quickly fix
those mistakes (as you can see from referred here video you have to just
redeploy your corrected db and corresponding .edmx file and then refresh
your browser - and you'll get the new version "up & running". This practice
of verifying data modeling decisions in real life environment is also our
everyday practice but it usually takes much more efforts when done without
DDEWA. 

Third, because as I noted you can prepare within DDEWA ready to use in real
apps "code blocks" (.ascx controls etc.) while "playing with" DDEWA (again
as you can see no need to rebuild/restart the application - just refresh
your browser - well, that is a consequence of ASP.NET technology used for
DDEWA)

Fourth, as we talked here before, ADO.NET Entity Data Model will allow in
the (near) future to generate actual database models from ADO.NET Entity
models - wouldn't that become soon our everyday development practice?
(Imagine you start from use cases/user stories, develop customs classes and
business functionality based on ADO.NET Entity objects, develop unit tests,
then generate database model, develop integration tests, generate/customize
application interface... - and you're done. (of course I'm simplifying here
the real picture but IMO mainstream direction is presented correctly?))

Fifth, as we can see DDEWA user interface is generated from ADO.NET Entity
Model and this model (which is currently in the referred above case is
simply generated from database model) can be made having "Super-Entities"
modeling user interfaces' underplaying data, these "Super-Entities" can have
relations used by DDEWA to navigate between them... - IOW this is a way to
simulate real life apps user interfaces and navigation, and then "just add"
a mapping from "Super-Entities" to database entities...

...

DDEWA looks here very challenging and in the same time helpful to our
everyday development practices, not a "silver bullet" of course as we're
getting more and more complicated business tasks to automate but they
(DDEWA) promise to get out "yet another routine everyday work" from the
shoulders of developers...

Thank you.

--
Shamil 

P.S. The idea of DDEWA to generate user interface doesn't look original - we
have seen many "wizard tools" like that (I have even participated in
developing tools like that for different platforms, did you?) - but
implementation of this idea by MS folks and the ways to (re-)use this
implementation for real life apps development look very powerful, useful and
challenging from here. My five stars (*****) to MS DDEWA technology
developers.

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 2:27 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil and Charlotte

I watched that video - some challenge due to the awful soundtrack - and my
impression is that this dynamic data entities web is useful only for
creating an interface to the complete table schema - which you hardly never
use (I haven't) except for the example Shamil describes where you wish to
present the full schema as well as the data content and even offer to edit
this at close to zero efforts. I could imagine some kind of monitoring or
admin/techie interface built this way.

For any other purpose a lot of customizing is needed which - though quite
powerful, so it seems - for a decent app will take longer than building the
app from scratch I guess. 

So - as I see it - this technique has its uses but app development is not on
of these.

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 09:57 >>>
Hi Charlotte --

Thank you for your information.

As I noted I currently do not plan to use dynamic data entities web
applications in production but only to verify the data model design, to give
to customers/users "working model" of some of their business areas, to
prepare lookup/sample/test data: I found it very useful -  I have just
developed rather complicated data model for my customer project, clicked
several times my mouse, made a few selections, typed a few chars - and
voila' I can enter data, navigate all tables etc.

Would that be possible to get known from your project manager what are the
causes of their warnings about dynamic data entities? - I think that would
be very useful for everybody here to know about their experience to not
"step on rakes" as we say here.

BTW, customization features provided by dynamic data entities web
applications are also rather useful to implement something like "working,
real life environment simulating specification": I have got only glanced
those customization features and I have found they can be used at least to:

- develop/simulate/test some kinds of (simple) business rules/checks used
during data entry/edit;
- develop almost ready to use in ASP.NET production environment ASP.NET
custom controls.

There should be more useful features I'm quite sure.

And once again what is very important is that you can give "working model"
for your customers/users almost immediately after/during the talks with
them, they can play with it, they can get "instant fixes" for it etc. I have
checked and AFAIS ADO.NET Entity Data Model can be quickly regenerated
within VS2008 when source DB changes, and such regeneration preserves custom
edits of ADO.NET Entity Data Model objects. Good stuff. Only positive
experience so far.

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 2:37 AM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Our project manager warned us about dynamic data entities and the MS entity
model.  No personal experience and he isn't a developer, so he's talking
about his previous job.

Charlotte Foust 

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil
Salakhetdinov
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 9:06 AM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Gustav,

VS2008 SP1: 

1. Solution: Add: New Project -> Dynamic Data Entities Web Application...
2. Project: Add: New Item -> ADO.NET Entity Data Model

The next steps are rather obvious, and Global.asax's comments give the clue
how to make the application to work.

But I can't get some more information on this type of projects. Yes, I can
investigate them but I'd prefer to have some ready to use descriptions. 

Can't find them online on MSDN....

I have just got this link, which looks interesting:

http://channel9.msdn.com/posts/matthijs/Fastest-To-Market-RAD-Web-Applicatio
ns-with-ASPNET-Dynamic-Data-and-Entity-Framework/

It's a 1+ hour video...

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 7:44 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil

No, not me. But how did you get started on this having no info??

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 20-08-2009 17:38 >>>
Hi All,

I'm currently working on a project where I use Dynamic Data Entities Web
Applications - DDEWA-(VS2008 SP1).

I have tried to search Google and Bing to find some information on DDEWA but
failed.

Do you have any useful links on DDEWA?

Thank you.

--
Shamil






From Gustav at cactus.dk  Fri Aug 21 07:44:57 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:44:57 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications
Message-ID: <sa8eb310.072@cactus.dk>

Hi Shamil

My comments were not on the ADO.NET Entity Data Model which I find very promising.

Your example of a "superuser" having access to the schema and full (test) data is what I meant with a admin/techie app which I believe can be useful - only have I never met a client which had much more than just a sense of what the database is about.

I agree with you that dynamic data entities web tool seems to be very well engineered.

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 13:18 >>>
Hi Gustav,

Yes, it takes "close to zero efforts" (~1 minute) to have a "web
application" for this ADO.NET entity model

http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/temp/model.jpg 

which in turn was generated from MS SQL 2005 database.

<<<
...this technique has its uses but app development is not one of these...
>>>
Gustav, let me disagree with that your statement.

First of all because (sample) and lookup data entry/edit is in fact part of
our everyday real life practice of application development.

Second, because Dynamic Data Entity Web Applications (DDEWA) do help
developers to verify their data modeling decisions by "effortlessly" giving
"working models" in hands of (power-)users, and when users/developers find
there are some mistakes in those decisions then DDEWA help to quickly fix
those mistakes (as you can see from referred here video you have to just
redeploy your corrected db and corresponding .edmx file and then refresh
your browser - and you'll get the new version "up & running". This practice
of verifying data modeling decisions in real life environment is also our
everyday practice but it usually takes much more efforts when done without
DDEWA. 

Third, because as I noted you can prepare within DDEWA ready to use in real
apps "code blocks" (.ascx controls etc.) while "playing with" DDEWA (again
as you can see no need to rebuild/restart the application - just refresh
your browser - well, that is a consequence of ASP.NET technology used for
DDEWA)

Fourth, as we talked here before, ADO.NET Entity Data Model will allow in
the (near) future to generate actual database models from ADO.NET Entity
models - wouldn't that become soon our everyday development practice?
(Imagine you start from use cases/user stories, develop customs classes and
business functionality based on ADO.NET Entity objects, develop unit tests,
then generate database model, develop integration tests, generate/customize
application interface... - and you're done. (of course I'm simplifying here
the real picture but IMO mainstream direction is presented correctly?))

Fifth, as we can see DDEWA user interface is generated from ADO.NET Entity
Model and this model (which is currently in the referred above case is
simply generated from database model) can be made having "Super-Entities"
modeling user interfaces' underplaying data, these "Super-Entities" can have
relations used by DDEWA to navigate between them... - IOW this is a way to
simulate real life apps user interfaces and navigation, and then "just add"
a mapping from "Super-Entities" to database entities...

...

DDEWA looks here very challenging and in the same time helpful to our
everyday development practices, not a "silver bullet" of course as we're
getting more and more complicated business tasks to automate but they
(DDEWA) promise to get out "yet another routine everyday work" from the
shoulders of developers...

Thank you.

--
Shamil 

P.S. The idea of DDEWA to generate user interface doesn't look original - we
have seen many "wizard tools" like that (I have even participated in
developing tools like that for different platforms, did you?) - but
implementation of this idea by MS folks and the ways to (re-)use this
implementation for real life apps development look very powerful, useful and
challenging from here. My five stars (*****) to MS DDEWA technology
developers.

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 2:27 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil and Charlotte

I watched that video - some challenge due to the awful soundtrack - and my
impression is that this dynamic data entities web is useful only for
creating an interface to the complete table schema - which you hardly never
use (I haven't) except for the example Shamil describes where you wish to
present the full schema as well as the data content and even offer to edit
this at close to zero efforts. I could imagine some kind of monitoring or
admin/techie interface built this way.

For any other purpose a lot of customizing is needed which - though quite
powerful, so it seems - for a decent app will take longer than building the
app from scratch I guess. 

So - as I see it - this technique has its uses but app development is not on
of these.

/gustav




From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Fri Aug 21 11:07:59 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 20:07:59 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications
In-Reply-To: <sa8eb310.072@cactus.dk>
References: <sa8eb310.072@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <014301ca2279$8fc9e180$af5da480$@spb.ru>

Hi Gustav --

Yes, I do know that you find ADO.NET Entity Data Model very promising.

And I only wanted to note that I find DDEWA also very promising to perform
quite some routine work we and our customers/"super-users" are doing
manually nowadays.

BTW, as far as I see/can guess DDEWA are implemented using very similar to
ASP.NET MVC Framework approach: I mean they seems to be using "some tricks"
on top of ASP.NET engine to generate on-the-fly ASP.NET controls and web
forms and "feed" ASP.NET engine using these generated web forms/controls. I
can be wrong. Just guessing...

I will continue my R&D with DDEWA and if I find something interesting I will
post this information here.

BTW, I'm currently trying to customize the order of the list of the tables
shown on the first page (Default.aspx) of my DDEWA, any ideas?

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 4:45 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil

My comments were not on the ADO.NET Entity Data Model which I find very
promising.

Your example of a "superuser" having access to the schema and full (test)
data is what I meant with a admin/techie app which I believe can be useful -
only have I never met a client which had much more than just a sense of what
the database is about.

I agree with you that dynamic data entities web tool seems to be very well
engineered.

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 13:18 >>>
Hi Gustav,

Yes, it takes "close to zero efforts" (~1 minute) to have a "web
application" for this ADO.NET entity model

http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/temp/model.jpg 

which in turn was generated from MS SQL 2005 database.

<<<
...this technique has its uses but app development is not one of these...
>>>
Gustav, let me disagree with that your statement.

First of all because (sample) and lookup data entry/edit is in fact part of
our everyday real life practice of application development.

Second, because Dynamic Data Entity Web Applications (DDEWA) do help
developers to verify their data modeling decisions by "effortlessly" giving
"working models" in hands of (power-)users, and when users/developers find
there are some mistakes in those decisions then DDEWA help to quickly fix
those mistakes (as you can see from referred here video you have to just
redeploy your corrected db and corresponding .edmx file and then refresh
your browser - and you'll get the new version "up & running". This practice
of verifying data modeling decisions in real life environment is also our
everyday practice but it usually takes much more efforts when done without
DDEWA. 

Third, because as I noted you can prepare within DDEWA ready to use in real
apps "code blocks" (.ascx controls etc.) while "playing with" DDEWA (again
as you can see no need to rebuild/restart the application - just refresh
your browser - well, that is a consequence of ASP.NET technology used for
DDEWA)

Fourth, as we talked here before, ADO.NET Entity Data Model will allow in
the (near) future to generate actual database models from ADO.NET Entity
models - wouldn't that become soon our everyday development practice?
(Imagine you start from use cases/user stories, develop customs classes and
business functionality based on ADO.NET Entity objects, develop unit tests,
then generate database model, develop integration tests, generate/customize
application interface... - and you're done. (of course I'm simplifying here
the real picture but IMO mainstream direction is presented correctly?))

Fifth, as we can see DDEWA user interface is generated from ADO.NET Entity
Model and this model (which is currently in the referred above case is
simply generated from database model) can be made having "Super-Entities"
modeling user interfaces' underplaying data, these "Super-Entities" can have
relations used by DDEWA to navigate between them... - IOW this is a way to
simulate real life apps user interfaces and navigation, and then "just add"
a mapping from "Super-Entities" to database entities...

...

DDEWA looks here very challenging and in the same time helpful to our
everyday development practices, not a "silver bullet" of course as we're
getting more and more complicated business tasks to automate but they
(DDEWA) promise to get out "yet another routine everyday work" from the
shoulders of developers...

Thank you.

--
Shamil 

P.S. The idea of DDEWA to generate user interface doesn't look original - we
have seen many "wizard tools" like that (I have even participated in
developing tools like that for different platforms, did you?) - but
implementation of this idea by MS folks and the ways to (re-)use this
implementation for real life apps development look very powerful, useful and
challenging from here. My five stars (*****) to MS DDEWA technology
developers.

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 2:27 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil and Charlotte

I watched that video - some challenge due to the awful soundtrack - and my
impression is that this dynamic data entities web is useful only for
creating an interface to the complete table schema - which you hardly never
use (I haven't) except for the example Shamil describes where you wish to
present the full schema as well as the data content and even offer to edit
this at close to zero efforts. I could imagine some kind of monitoring or
admin/techie interface built this way.

For any other purpose a lot of customizing is needed which - though quite
powerful, so it seems - for a decent app will take longer than building the
app from scratch I guess. 

So - as I see it - this technique has its uses but app development is not on
of these.

/gustav


_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4356 (20090821) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru


 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4356 (20090821) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 



From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Fri Aug 21 14:57:10 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 23:57:10 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Click-Once stopped to work on my Vista PC....
Message-ID: <016301ca2299$93cf56a0$bb6e03e0$@spb.ru>

Hi All,

 

If you remember I have had a posting on the subject issue here - the issue
was caused by the fact that .application extension did get Notepad as
default edit program - when you set default program back to "Application
Deployment Support Library" then Click-Once does start to work well again.
The answer came from StackOverflow. 

 

Thank you.

 

--

Shamil



From Gustav at cactus.dk  Fri Aug 21 16:25:57 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 23:25:57 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications
Message-ID: <sa8f2d25.082@cactus.dk>

Hi Shamil

Yes, please post your findings please.

As for the order of the tables, isn't it just based on the enumeration in SQL Server?

/gustav

>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 18:07 >>>
Hi Gustav --

Yes, I do know that you find ADO.NET Entity Data Model very promising.

And I only wanted to note that I find DDEWA also very promising to perform
quite some routine work we and our customers/"super-users" are doing
manually nowadays.

BTW, as far as I see/can guess DDEWA are implemented using very similar to
ASP.NET MVC Framework approach: I mean they seems to be using "some tricks"
on top of ASP.NET engine to generate on-the-fly ASP.NET controls and web
forms and "feed" ASP.NET engine using these generated web forms/controls. I
can be wrong. Just guessing...

I will continue my R&D with DDEWA and if I find something interesting I will
post this information here.

BTW, I'm currently trying to customize the order of the list of the tables
shown on the first page (Default.aspx) of my DDEWA, any ideas?

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 4:45 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil

My comments were not on the ADO.NET Entity Data Model which I find very
promising.

Your example of a "superuser" having access to the schema and full (test)
data is what I meant with a admin/techie app which I believe can be useful -
only have I never met a client which had much more than just a sense of what
the database is about.

I agree with you that dynamic data entities web tool seems to be very well
engineered.

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 13:18 >>>
Hi Gustav,

Yes, it takes "close to zero efforts" (~1 minute) to have a "web
application" for this ADO.NET entity model

http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/temp/model.jpg 

which in turn was generated from MS SQL 2005 database.

<<<
...this technique has its uses but app development is not one of these...
>>>
Gustav, let me disagree with that your statement.

First of all because (sample) and lookup data entry/edit is in fact part of
our everyday real life practice of application development.

Second, because Dynamic Data Entity Web Applications (DDEWA) do help
developers to verify their data modeling decisions by "effortlessly" giving
"working models" in hands of (power-)users, and when users/developers find
there are some mistakes in those decisions then DDEWA help to quickly fix
those mistakes (as you can see from referred here video you have to just
redeploy your corrected db and corresponding .edmx file and then refresh
your browser - and you'll get the new version "up & running". This practice
of verifying data modeling decisions in real life environment is also our
everyday practice but it usually takes much more efforts when done without
DDEWA. 

Third, because as I noted you can prepare within DDEWA ready to use in real
apps "code blocks" (.ascx controls etc.) while "playing with" DDEWA (again
as you can see no need to rebuild/restart the application - just refresh
your browser - well, that is a consequence of ASP.NET technology used for
DDEWA)

Fourth, as we talked here before, ADO.NET Entity Data Model will allow in
the (near) future to generate actual database models from ADO.NET Entity
models - wouldn't that become soon our everyday development practice?
(Imagine you start from use cases/user stories, develop customs classes and
business functionality based on ADO.NET Entity objects, develop unit tests,
then generate database model, develop integration tests, generate/customize
application interface... - and you're done. (of course I'm simplifying here
the real picture but IMO mainstream direction is presented correctly?))

Fifth, as we can see DDEWA user interface is generated from ADO.NET Entity
Model and this model (which is currently in the referred above case is
simply generated from database model) can be made having "Super-Entities"
modeling user interfaces' underplaying data, these "Super-Entities" can have
relations used by DDEWA to navigate between them... - IOW this is a way to
simulate real life apps user interfaces and navigation, and then "just add"
a mapping from "Super-Entities" to database entities...

...

DDEWA looks here very challenging and in the same time helpful to our
everyday development practices, not a "silver bullet" of course as we're
getting more and more complicated business tasks to automate but they
(DDEWA) promise to get out "yet another routine everyday work" from the
shoulders of developers...

Thank you.

--
Shamil 

P.S. The idea of DDEWA to generate user interface doesn't look original - we
have seen many "wizard tools" like that (I have even participated in
developing tools like that for different platforms, did you?) - but
implementation of this idea by MS folks and the ways to (re-)use this
implementation for real life apps development look very powerful, useful and
challenging from here. My five stars (*****) to MS DDEWA technology
developers.

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 2:27 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil and Charlotte

I watched that video - some challenge due to the awful soundtrack - and my
impression is that this dynamic data entities web is useful only for
creating an interface to the complete table schema - which you hardly never
use (I haven't) except for the example Shamil describes where you wish to
present the full schema as well as the data content and even offer to edit
this at close to zero efforts. I could imagine some kind of monitoring or
admin/techie interface built this way.

For any other purpose a lot of customizing is needed which - though quite
powerful, so it seems - for a decent app will take longer than building the
app from scratch I guess. 

So - as I see it - this technique has its uses but app development is not on
of these.

/gustav



From Gustav at cactus.dk  Fri Aug 21 16:28:24 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 23:28:24 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] Click-Once stopped to work on my Vista PC....
Message-ID: <sa8f2dbc.083@cactus.dk>

Hi Shamil

No, I forgot about that posting. However, I wouldn't have thought of a solution like the one you describe. Thanks for the tip (or warning)!

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 21:57 >>>
Hi All,

If you remember I have had a posting on the subject issue here - the issue
was caused by the fact that .application extension did get Notepad as
default edit program - when you set default program back to "Application
Deployment Support Library" then Click-Once does start to work well again.
The answer came from StackOverflow. 

Thank you.

--
Shamil





From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Fri Aug 21 23:04:26 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 00:04:26 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Click-Once stopped to work on my Vista PC....
In-Reply-To: <sa8f2dbc.083@cactus.dk>
References: <sa8f2dbc.083@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <4A8F6E4A.8080107@colbyconsulting.com>

So you guys are using VB.Net express?  Or C# express?

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi Shamil
> 
> No, I forgot about that posting. However, I wouldn't have thought of a solution like the one you describe. Thanks for the tip (or warning)!
> 
> /gustav
> 
> 
>>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 21:57 >>>
> Hi All,
> 
> If you remember I have had a posting on the subject issue here - the issue
> was caused by the fact that .application extension did get Notepad as
> default edit program - when you set default program back to "Application
> Deployment Support Library" then Click-Once does start to work well again.
> The answer came from StackOverflow. 
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> --
> Shamil
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 


From Gustav at cactus.dk  Sat Aug 22 02:28:48 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 09:28:48 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] Click-Once stopped to work on my Vista PC....
Message-ID: <sa8fba66.084@cactus.dk>

Hi John

No, I use VS2008 Standard Edition. Comes with the MAPS (Microsoft Action Pack Subscription) - if you pass a tiny test as described in earlier postings.

/gustav

>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 22-08-2009 06:04 >>>
So you guys are using VB.Net express?  Or C# express?

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com 


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi Shamil
> 
> No, I forgot about that posting. However, I wouldn't have thought of a solution like the one you describe. Thanks for the tip (or warning)!
> 
> /gustav
> 
> 
>>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 21:57 >>>
> Hi All,
> 
> If you remember I have had a posting on the subject issue here - the issue
> was caused by the fact that .application extension did get Notepad as
> default edit program - when you set default program back to "Application
> Deployment Support Library" then Click-Once does start to work well again.
> The answer came from StackOverflow. 
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> --
> Shamil




From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Sat Aug 22 05:14:55 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 14:14:55 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Click-Once stopped to work on my Vista PC....
In-Reply-To: <sa8f2dbc.083@cactus.dk>
References: <sa8f2dbc.083@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <001a01ca2311$66fddd90$34f998b0$@spb.ru>

Hi Gustav,

Yes, that solution, which came from StackOverflow, is awesome as one
developer noted there: if you have just get opened any .application-type
file in notepad, and you'll have "use this application as default" checkbox
checked - and it's checked by default, and nobody usually unchecks it - then
you get this weird Click-Once setup behavior when it starts correctly but
then informs you that you have improper version of .NET Framework
installed... and all you need is in fact just to set back default program
for .application type files...

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 1:28 AM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Click-Once stopped to work on my Vista PC....

Hi Shamil

No, I forgot about that posting. However, I wouldn't have thought of a
solution like the one you describe. Thanks for the tip (or warning)!

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 21:57 >>>
Hi All,

If you remember I have had a posting on the subject issue here - the issue
was caused by the fact that .application extension did get Notepad as
default edit program - when you set default program back to "Application
Deployment Support Library" then Click-Once does start to work well again.
The answer came from StackOverflow. 

Thank you.

--
Shamil



_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4357 (20090821) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru


 

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From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Sat Aug 22 05:14:55 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 14:14:55 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Click-Once stopped to work on my Vista PC....
In-Reply-To: <4A8F6E4A.8080107@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <sa8f2dbc.083@cactus.dk> <4A8F6E4A.8080107@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <001b01ca2311$68756260$39602720$@spb.ru>

Hi John,

No, I use VS2008 Professional.

Click-Once is one of the methods of .NET Framework applications setup.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 8:04 AM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Click-Once stopped to work on my Vista PC....

So you guys are using VB.Net express?  Or C# express?

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi Shamil
> 
> No, I forgot about that posting. However, I wouldn't have thought of a
solution like the one you describe. Thanks for the tip (or warning)!
> 
> /gustav
> 
> 
>>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 21:57 >>>
> Hi All,
> 
> If you remember I have had a posting on the subject issue here - the issue
> was caused by the fact that .application extension did get Notepad as
> default edit program - when you set default program back to "Application
> Deployment Support Library" then Click-Once does start to work well again.
> The answer came from StackOverflow. 
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> --
> Shamil
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 
_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4357 (20090821) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru


 

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database 4357 (20090821) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

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From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Sat Aug 22 05:18:33 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 14:18:33 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications
In-Reply-To: <sa8f2d25.082@cactus.dk>
References: <sa8f2d25.082@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <001c01ca2311$e8cf5b00$ba6e1100$@spb.ru>

Hi Gustav,

I gave got one issue with DDEWA already - one of the tables "doesn't want"
to be opened/viewed - ASP.NET runtime error is reported. No clue yet how to
workaround this issue. Isn't that one of the causes Charlotte warned about
referring to her manager experience in another company?

The tables are ordered alphabetically and I wanted to get them ordered
special custom way.

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 1:26 AM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil

Yes, please post your findings please.

As for the order of the tables, isn't it just based on the enumeration in
SQL Server?

/gustav

>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 18:07 >>>
Hi Gustav --

Yes, I do know that you find ADO.NET Entity Data Model very promising.

And I only wanted to note that I find DDEWA also very promising to perform
quite some routine work we and our customers/"super-users" are doing
manually nowadays.

BTW, as far as I see/can guess DDEWA are implemented using very similar to
ASP.NET MVC Framework approach: I mean they seems to be using "some tricks"
on top of ASP.NET engine to generate on-the-fly ASP.NET controls and web
forms and "feed" ASP.NET engine using these generated web forms/controls. I
can be wrong. Just guessing...

I will continue my R&D with DDEWA and if I find something interesting I will
post this information here.

BTW, I'm currently trying to customize the order of the list of the tables
shown on the first page (Default.aspx) of my DDEWA, any ideas?

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 4:45 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil

My comments were not on the ADO.NET Entity Data Model which I find very
promising.

Your example of a "superuser" having access to the schema and full (test)
data is what I meant with a admin/techie app which I believe can be useful -
only have I never met a client which had much more than just a sense of what
the database is about.

I agree with you that dynamic data entities web tool seems to be very well
engineered.

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 13:18 >>>
Hi Gustav,

Yes, it takes "close to zero efforts" (~1 minute) to have a "web
application" for this ADO.NET entity model

http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/temp/model.jpg 

which in turn was generated from MS SQL 2005 database.

<<<
...this technique has its uses but app development is not one of these...
>>>
Gustav, let me disagree with that your statement.

First of all because (sample) and lookup data entry/edit is in fact part of
our everyday real life practice of application development.

Second, because Dynamic Data Entity Web Applications (DDEWA) do help
developers to verify their data modeling decisions by "effortlessly" giving
"working models" in hands of (power-)users, and when users/developers find
there are some mistakes in those decisions then DDEWA help to quickly fix
those mistakes (as you can see from referred here video you have to just
redeploy your corrected db and corresponding .edmx file and then refresh
your browser - and you'll get the new version "up & running". This practice
of verifying data modeling decisions in real life environment is also our
everyday practice but it usually takes much more efforts when done without
DDEWA. 

Third, because as I noted you can prepare within DDEWA ready to use in real
apps "code blocks" (.ascx controls etc.) while "playing with" DDEWA (again
as you can see no need to rebuild/restart the application - just refresh
your browser - well, that is a consequence of ASP.NET technology used for
DDEWA)

Fourth, as we talked here before, ADO.NET Entity Data Model will allow in
the (near) future to generate actual database models from ADO.NET Entity
models - wouldn't that become soon our everyday development practice?
(Imagine you start from use cases/user stories, develop customs classes and
business functionality based on ADO.NET Entity objects, develop unit tests,
then generate database model, develop integration tests, generate/customize
application interface... - and you're done. (of course I'm simplifying here
the real picture but IMO mainstream direction is presented correctly?))

Fifth, as we can see DDEWA user interface is generated from ADO.NET Entity
Model and this model (which is currently in the referred above case is
simply generated from database model) can be made having "Super-Entities"
modeling user interfaces' underplaying data, these "Super-Entities" can have
relations used by DDEWA to navigate between them... - IOW this is a way to
simulate real life apps user interfaces and navigation, and then "just add"
a mapping from "Super-Entities" to database entities...

...

DDEWA looks here very challenging and in the same time helpful to our
everyday development practices, not a "silver bullet" of course as we're
getting more and more complicated business tasks to automate but they
(DDEWA) promise to get out "yet another routine everyday work" from the
shoulders of developers...

Thank you.

--
Shamil 

P.S. The idea of DDEWA to generate user interface doesn't look original - we
have seen many "wizard tools" like that (I have even participated in
developing tools like that for different platforms, did you?) - but
implementation of this idea by MS folks and the ways to (re-)use this
implementation for real life apps development look very powerful, useful and
challenging from here. My five stars (*****) to MS DDEWA technology
developers.

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 2:27 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil and Charlotte

I watched that video - some challenge due to the awful soundtrack - and my
impression is that this dynamic data entities web is useful only for
creating an interface to the complete table schema - which you hardly never
use (I haven't) except for the example Shamil describes where you wish to
present the full schema as well as the data content and even offer to edit
this at close to zero efforts. I could imagine some kind of monitoring or
admin/techie interface built this way.

For any other purpose a lot of customizing is needed which - though quite
powerful, so it seems - for a decent app will take longer than building the
app from scratch I guess. 

So - as I see it - this technique has its uses but app development is not on
of these.

/gustav

_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4357 (20090821) __________

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From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Sat Aug 22 08:20:09 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 09:20:09 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Click-Once stopped to work on my Vista PC....
In-Reply-To: <sa8fba66.084@cactus.dk>
References: <sa8fba66.084@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <4A8FF089.1010105@colbyconsulting.com>

I was also inquiring about the specific language you guys are using, VB or C#.

So what is the story in terms of compatibility between the express editions and the standard?  I 
know that there are express edition things that won't work in the standard edition (at least for VB) 
but if you don't use those can the code be worked in the standard edition environment.  IOW can a 
project be worked on in both environments.

I own the standard edition but my thought is that the express edition is free.  I know the response 
to your solicitations to work on the projects haven't been overwhelming, but if people do want to 
participate, the cost of the standard edition might be a stopper.  As an example IIRC William uses 
the free editions.

Also is there something in the standard edition that makes it a must have, capabilities that the 
express edition does not have.  Obviously there is SOMETHING.  How about the one click publishing. 
Is that unavailable in the express edition?

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi John
> 
> No, I use VS2008 Standard Edition. Comes with the MAPS (Microsoft Action Pack Subscription) - if you pass a tiny test as described in earlier postings.
> 
> /gustav
> 
>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 22-08-2009 06:04 >>>
> So you guys are using VB.Net express?  Or C# express?
> 
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com 
> 
> 
> Gustav Brock wrote:
>> Hi Shamil
>>
>> No, I forgot about that posting. However, I wouldn't have thought of a solution like the one you describe. Thanks for the tip (or warning)!
>>
>> /gustav
>>
>>
>>>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 21:57 >>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> If you remember I have had a posting on the subject issue here - the issue
>> was caused by the fact that .application extension did get Notepad as
>> default edit program - when you set default program back to "Application
>> Deployment Support Library" then Click-Once does start to work well again.
>> The answer came from StackOverflow. 
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> --
>> Shamil
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 


From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Sat Aug 22 08:40:30 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 09:40:30 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Click-Once stopped to work on my Vista PC....
In-Reply-To: <4A8FF089.1010105@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <sa8fba66.084@cactus.dk> <4A8FF089.1010105@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <4A8FF54E.1090406@colbyconsulting.com>

Never mind, I found a comparison chart.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


jwcolby wrote:
> I was also inquiring about the specific language you guys are using, VB or C#.
> 
> So what is the story in terms of compatibility between the express editions and the standard?  I 
> know that there are express edition things that won't work in the standard edition (at least for VB) 
> but if you don't use those can the code be worked in the standard edition environment.  IOW can a 
> project be worked on in both environments.
> 
> I own the standard edition but my thought is that the express edition is free.  I know the response 
> to your solicitations to work on the projects haven't been overwhelming, but if people do want to 
> participate, the cost of the standard edition might be a stopper.  As an example IIRC William uses 
> the free editions.
> 
> Also is there something in the standard edition that makes it a must have, capabilities that the 
> express edition does not have.  Obviously there is SOMETHING.  How about the one click publishing. 
> Is that unavailable in the express edition?
> 
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com
> 
> 
> Gustav Brock wrote:
>> Hi John
>>
>> No, I use VS2008 Standard Edition. Comes with the MAPS (Microsoft Action Pack Subscription) - if you pass a tiny test as described in earlier postings.
>>
>> /gustav



From Gustav at cactus.dk  Sat Aug 22 16:26:31 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 23:26:31 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] Click-Once stopped to work on my Vista PC....
Message-ID: <sa907eca.091@cactus.dk>

Hi John

C# exclusively. I found the VB.NET syntax too weird, and after having programmed in VBA (Access Basic) for a decade (and a little Pascal and Prolog before that) I decided it was time to learn something new. 

/gustav

>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 22-08-2009 15:20 >>>
I was also inquiring about the specific language you guys are using, VB or C#.





From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Sat Aug 22 16:47:52 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 17:47:52 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] SPAM-LOW: Re: Click-Once stopped to work on my Vista
 PC....
In-Reply-To: <sa907eca.091@cactus.dk>
References: <sa907eca.091@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <4A906788.5020201@colbyconsulting.com>

Thanks for the reply Gustav.

I programmed a uController in C for almost two years from 1996-1997.  I haven't done any C since 
however.  I think I will take the plunge as well.

I did a fair bit of VB.Net about two years ago but now I have to get back into .net.

I actually have an application that I am thinking of doing in .Net.  It could be done in Access but 
it is simple enough to make it a perfect "started app" for getting back into .net,  and it could 
grow big and then having it in .Net could be a real advantage.  Plus it would be sold which means 
distribution.  OneClick distribution is calling me.

;)

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi John
> 
> C# exclusively. I found the VB.NET syntax too weird, and after having programmed in VBA (Access Basic) for a decade (and a little Pascal and Prolog before that) I decided it was time to learn something new. 
> 
> /gustav
> 
>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 22-08-2009 15:20 >>>
> I was also inquiring about the specific language you guys are using, VB or C#.
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 


From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Sat Aug 22 16:52:16 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 01:52:16 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Click-Once stopped to work on my Vista PC....
In-Reply-To: <4A8FF089.1010105@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <sa8fba66.084@cactus.dk> <4A8FF089.1010105@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <002d01ca2372$d225b190$767114b0$@spb.ru>

<<<
Also is there something in the standard edition that makes it a must have,
capabilities that the 
express edition does not have.  Obviously there is SOMETHING.  How about the
one click publishing. 
Is that unavailable in the express edition?
>>>
Hi John,

I don't know - last time I checked - in the beginning of Northwind.NET
project this spring all VS 2008 professional projects were built OK under C#
2008 Express. You can try to download projects from

http://northwind.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=26600

and check if anything will not compile under C# 2008 Express.

VS - higher versions - they provide some more software development
automation features - but that should be it - after all one can develop any
kind of .NET applications using notepad.exe, .NET Framework and MS Build
(from .NET Framework SDK)  (MS Build is not even needed I suppose - AFAIK it
provides some automation of compilation of sources and of building of
executables(I can be wrong here, I don't know all the details on MS Build))
- all are free to download, to use for software development and to
distribute developed apps...

<<<
I was also inquiring about the specific language you guys are using, VB or
C#.
>>>
I prefer C#.
I'd not mind to use VB if somebody will invite me to participate in an
interesting project where VB will be selected to be the main development
language...
I'd be even more interested to participate in an project where IronRuby will
be selected as the main development language (FYI:I currently have 1%
knowledge on Ruby/IronRuby)...

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 5:20 PM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Click-Once stopped to work on my Vista PC....

I was also inquiring about the specific language you guys are using, VB or
C#.

So what is the story in terms of compatibility between the express editions
and the standard?  I 
know that there are express edition things that won't work in the standard
edition (at least for VB) 
but if you don't use those can the code be worked in the standard edition
environment.  IOW can a 
project be worked on in both environments.

I own the standard edition but my thought is that the express edition is
free.  I know the response 
to your solicitations to work on the projects haven't been overwhelming, but
if people do want to 
participate, the cost of the standard edition might be a stopper.  As an
example IIRC William uses 
the free editions.

Also is there something in the standard edition that makes it a must have,
capabilities that the 
express edition does not have.  Obviously there is SOMETHING.  How about the
one click publishing. 
Is that unavailable in the express edition?

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi John
> 
> No, I use VS2008 Standard Edition. Comes with the MAPS (Microsoft Action
Pack Subscription) - if you pass a tiny test as described in earlier
postings.
> 
> /gustav
> 
>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 22-08-2009 06:04 >>>
> So you guys are using VB.Net express?  Or C# express?
> 
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com 
> 
> 
> Gustav Brock wrote:
>> Hi Shamil
>>
>> No, I forgot about that posting. However, I wouldn't have thought of a
solution like the one you describe. Thanks for the tip (or warning)!
>>
>> /gustav
>>
>>
>>>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 21:57 >>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> If you remember I have had a posting on the subject issue here - the
issue
>> was caused by the fact that .application extension did get Notepad as
>> default edit program - when you set default program back to "Application
>> Deployment Support Library" then Click-Once does start to work well
again.
>> The answer came from StackOverflow. 
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> --
>> Shamil
> 
> 

 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4359 (20090822) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 



From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Sun Aug 23 12:46:39 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 21:46:39 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications
In-Reply-To: <001c01ca2311$e8cf5b00$ba6e1100$@spb.ru>
References: <sa8f2d25.082@cactus.dk> <001c01ca2311$e8cf5b00$ba6e1100$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <000601ca2419$ac4a8e30$04dfaa90$@spb.ru>

Hi All,

I have solved mentioned below issue by regenerating ADO.NET Entity Model:
unfortunately that seems to be the only solution now - I'm writing
unfortunately because regeneration forced me to get lost all my manual
edits. Not that a big issue as my edits were mainly "cosmetic" - if to not
count several hours, which I tried to find a workaround, which would allow
me to preserve my "cosmetic" changes...

I have also found that if I try to add new relationships to the source
database and then use DDEWA to get updated only those relationships info in
generated ADO.NET Entity Model then weird compiled errors appear, e.g.:

Error 3007: Problem in Mapping Fragments starting at lines 2291, 2985: Non-
Primary-Key column(s) [RegionId] are being mapped in both fragments to
different conceptual side 
properties - data inconsistency is possible because the corresponding
conceptual side properties can 
be independently modified.

When regenerating ADO.NET Entity Model from scratch these new relationships
do appear properly as associations and my project compilation works OK...

Etc.

All in all I have got my DDEWA working OK but my current "rule of thumb" is
to not touch/edit generated ADO.NET Entity Model to not get into trouble.

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil
Salakhetdinov
Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 2:19 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Gustav,

I gave got one issue with DDEWA already - one of the tables "doesn't want"
to be opened/viewed - ASP.NET runtime error is reported. No clue yet how to
workaround this issue. Isn't that one of the causes Charlotte warned about
referring to her manager experience in another company?

The tables are ordered alphabetically and I wanted to get them ordered
special custom way.

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 1:26 AM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil

Yes, please post your findings please.

As for the order of the tables, isn't it just based on the enumeration in
SQL Server?

/gustav

>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 18:07 >>>
Hi Gustav --

Yes, I do know that you find ADO.NET Entity Data Model very promising.

And I only wanted to note that I find DDEWA also very promising to perform
quite some routine work we and our customers/"super-users" are doing
manually nowadays.

BTW, as far as I see/can guess DDEWA are implemented using very similar to
ASP.NET MVC Framework approach: I mean they seems to be using "some tricks"
on top of ASP.NET engine to generate on-the-fly ASP.NET controls and web
forms and "feed" ASP.NET engine using these generated web forms/controls. I
can be wrong. Just guessing...

I will continue my R&D with DDEWA and if I find something interesting I will
post this information here.

BTW, I'm currently trying to customize the order of the list of the tables
shown on the first page (Default.aspx) of my DDEWA, any ideas?

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 4:45 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil

My comments were not on the ADO.NET Entity Data Model which I find very
promising.

Your example of a "superuser" having access to the schema and full (test)
data is what I meant with a admin/techie app which I believe can be useful -
only have I never met a client which had much more than just a sense of what
the database is about.

I agree with you that dynamic data entities web tool seems to be very well
engineered.

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 13:18 >>>
Hi Gustav,

Yes, it takes "close to zero efforts" (~1 minute) to have a "web
application" for this ADO.NET entity model

http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/temp/model.jpg 

which in turn was generated from MS SQL 2005 database.

<<<
...this technique has its uses but app development is not one of these...
>>>
Gustav, let me disagree with that your statement.

First of all because (sample) and lookup data entry/edit is in fact part of
our everyday real life practice of application development.

Second, because Dynamic Data Entity Web Applications (DDEWA) do help
developers to verify their data modeling decisions by "effortlessly" giving
"working models" in hands of (power-)users, and when users/developers find
there are some mistakes in those decisions then DDEWA help to quickly fix
those mistakes (as you can see from referred here video you have to just
redeploy your corrected db and corresponding .edmx file and then refresh
your browser - and you'll get the new version "up & running". This practice
of verifying data modeling decisions in real life environment is also our
everyday practice but it usually takes much more efforts when done without
DDEWA. 

Third, because as I noted you can prepare within DDEWA ready to use in real
apps "code blocks" (.ascx controls etc.) while "playing with" DDEWA (again
as you can see no need to rebuild/restart the application - just refresh
your browser - well, that is a consequence of ASP.NET technology used for
DDEWA)

Fourth, as we talked here before, ADO.NET Entity Data Model will allow in
the (near) future to generate actual database models from ADO.NET Entity
models - wouldn't that become soon our everyday development practice?
(Imagine you start from use cases/user stories, develop customs classes and
business functionality based on ADO.NET Entity objects, develop unit tests,
then generate database model, develop integration tests, generate/customize
application interface... - and you're done. (of course I'm simplifying here
the real picture but IMO mainstream direction is presented correctly?))

Fifth, as we can see DDEWA user interface is generated from ADO.NET Entity
Model and this model (which is currently in the referred above case is
simply generated from database model) can be made having "Super-Entities"
modeling user interfaces' underplaying data, these "Super-Entities" can have
relations used by DDEWA to navigate between them... - IOW this is a way to
simulate real life apps user interfaces and navigation, and then "just add"
a mapping from "Super-Entities" to database entities...

...

DDEWA looks here very challenging and in the same time helpful to our
everyday development practices, not a "silver bullet" of course as we're
getting more and more complicated business tasks to automate but they
(DDEWA) promise to get out "yet another routine everyday work" from the
shoulders of developers...

Thank you.

--
Shamil 

P.S. The idea of DDEWA to generate user interface doesn't look original - we
have seen many "wizard tools" like that (I have even participated in
developing tools like that for different platforms, did you?) - but
implementation of this idea by MS folks and the ways to (re-)use this
implementation for real life apps development look very powerful, useful and
challenging from here. My five stars (*****) to MS DDEWA technology
developers.

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 2:27 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil and Charlotte

I watched that video - some challenge due to the awful soundtrack - and my
impression is that this dynamic data entities web is useful only for
creating an interface to the complete table schema - which you hardly never
use (I haven't) except for the example Shamil describes where you wish to
present the full schema as well as the data content and even offer to edit
this at close to zero efforts. I could imagine some kind of monitoring or
admin/techie interface built this way.

For any other purpose a lot of customizing is needed which - though quite
powerful, so it seems - for a decent app will take longer than building the
app from scratch I guess. 

So - as I see it - this technique has its uses but app development is not on
of these.

/gustav





From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Sun Aug 23 15:54:31 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 00:54:31 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications
In-Reply-To: <000601ca2419$ac4a8e30$04dfaa90$@spb.ru>
References: <sa8f2d25.082@cactus.dk> <001c01ca2311$e8cf5b00$ba6e1100$@spb.ru>
	<000601ca2419$ac4a8e30$04dfaa90$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <000701ca2433$eaff91b0$c0feb510$@spb.ru>

Hi All,

While trying to move my DDEWA to my ASP.NET hosting site I have again got
some weird error messages: fortunately I have found solution of
StackOverflow:

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/689355/metadataexception-unable-to-load-t
he-specified-metadata-resource

Connection string should start with:

connectionString="metadata=res://*/;

It worked well in my case.

FYI: it could take hours and hours to find the solution by yourself - here
is one example how much time it costed to another developer:

http://forums.asp.net/p/1409590/3082930.aspx

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil
Salakhetdinov
Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 9:47 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi All,

I have solved mentioned below issue by regenerating ADO.NET Entity Model:
unfortunately that seems to be the only solution now - I'm writing
unfortunately because regeneration forced me to get lost all my manual
edits. Not that a big issue as my edits were mainly "cosmetic" - if to not
count several hours, which I tried to find a workaround, which would allow
me to preserve my "cosmetic" changes...

I have also found that if I try to add new relationships to the source
database and then use DDEWA to get updated only those relationships info in
generated ADO.NET Entity Model then weird compiled errors appear, e.g.:

Error 3007: Problem in Mapping Fragments starting at lines 2291, 2985: Non-
Primary-Key column(s) [RegionId] are being mapped in both fragments to
different conceptual side 
properties - data inconsistency is possible because the corresponding
conceptual side properties can 
be independently modified.

When regenerating ADO.NET Entity Model from scratch these new relationships
do appear properly as associations and my project compilation works OK...

Etc.

All in all I have got my DDEWA working OK but my current "rule of thumb" is
to not touch/edit generated ADO.NET Entity Model to not get into trouble.

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil
Salakhetdinov
Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 2:19 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Gustav,

I gave got one issue with DDEWA already - one of the tables "doesn't want"
to be opened/viewed - ASP.NET runtime error is reported. No clue yet how to
workaround this issue. Isn't that one of the causes Charlotte warned about
referring to her manager experience in another company?

The tables are ordered alphabetically and I wanted to get them ordered
special custom way.

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 1:26 AM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil

Yes, please post your findings please.

As for the order of the tables, isn't it just based on the enumeration in
SQL Server?

/gustav

>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 18:07 >>>
Hi Gustav --

Yes, I do know that you find ADO.NET Entity Data Model very promising.

And I only wanted to note that I find DDEWA also very promising to perform
quite some routine work we and our customers/"super-users" are doing
manually nowadays.

BTW, as far as I see/can guess DDEWA are implemented using very similar to
ASP.NET MVC Framework approach: I mean they seems to be using "some tricks"
on top of ASP.NET engine to generate on-the-fly ASP.NET controls and web
forms and "feed" ASP.NET engine using these generated web forms/controls. I
can be wrong. Just guessing...

I will continue my R&D with DDEWA and if I find something interesting I will
post this information here.

BTW, I'm currently trying to customize the order of the list of the tables
shown on the first page (Default.aspx) of my DDEWA, any ideas?

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 4:45 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil

My comments were not on the ADO.NET Entity Data Model which I find very
promising.

Your example of a "superuser" having access to the schema and full (test)
data is what I meant with a admin/techie app which I believe can be useful -
only have I never met a client which had much more than just a sense of what
the database is about.

I agree with you that dynamic data entities web tool seems to be very well
engineered.

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 13:18 >>>
Hi Gustav,

Yes, it takes "close to zero efforts" (~1 minute) to have a "web
application" for this ADO.NET entity model

http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/temp/model.jpg 

which in turn was generated from MS SQL 2005 database.

<<<
...this technique has its uses but app development is not one of these...
>>>
Gustav, let me disagree with that your statement.

First of all because (sample) and lookup data entry/edit is in fact part of
our everyday real life practice of application development.

Second, because Dynamic Data Entity Web Applications (DDEWA) do help
developers to verify their data modeling decisions by "effortlessly" giving
"working models" in hands of (power-)users, and when users/developers find
there are some mistakes in those decisions then DDEWA help to quickly fix
those mistakes (as you can see from referred here video you have to just
redeploy your corrected db and corresponding .edmx file and then refresh
your browser - and you'll get the new version "up & running". This practice
of verifying data modeling decisions in real life environment is also our
everyday practice but it usually takes much more efforts when done without
DDEWA. 

Third, because as I noted you can prepare within DDEWA ready to use in real
apps "code blocks" (.ascx controls etc.) while "playing with" DDEWA (again
as you can see no need to rebuild/restart the application - just refresh
your browser - well, that is a consequence of ASP.NET technology used for
DDEWA)

Fourth, as we talked here before, ADO.NET Entity Data Model will allow in
the (near) future to generate actual database models from ADO.NET Entity
models - wouldn't that become soon our everyday development practice?
(Imagine you start from use cases/user stories, develop customs classes and
business functionality based on ADO.NET Entity objects, develop unit tests,
then generate database model, develop integration tests, generate/customize
application interface... - and you're done. (of course I'm simplifying here
the real picture but IMO mainstream direction is presented correctly?))

Fifth, as we can see DDEWA user interface is generated from ADO.NET Entity
Model and this model (which is currently in the referred above case is
simply generated from database model) can be made having "Super-Entities"
modeling user interfaces' underplaying data, these "Super-Entities" can have
relations used by DDEWA to navigate between them... - IOW this is a way to
simulate real life apps user interfaces and navigation, and then "just add"
a mapping from "Super-Entities" to database entities...

...

DDEWA looks here very challenging and in the same time helpful to our
everyday development practices, not a "silver bullet" of course as we're
getting more and more complicated business tasks to automate but they
(DDEWA) promise to get out "yet another routine everyday work" from the
shoulders of developers...

Thank you.

--
Shamil 

P.S. The idea of DDEWA to generate user interface doesn't look original - we
have seen many "wizard tools" like that (I have even participated in
developing tools like that for different platforms, did you?) - but
implementation of this idea by MS folks and the ways to (re-)use this
implementation for real life apps development look very powerful, useful and
challenging from here. My five stars (*****) to MS DDEWA technology
developers.

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 2:27 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications

Hi Shamil and Charlotte

I watched that video - some challenge due to the awful soundtrack - and my
impression is that this dynamic data entities web is useful only for
creating an interface to the complete table schema - which you hardly never
use (I haven't) except for the example Shamil describes where you wish to
present the full schema as well as the data content and even offer to edit
this at close to zero efforts. I could imagine some kind of monitoring or
admin/techie interface built this way.

For any other purpose a lot of customizing is needed which - though quite
powerful, so it seems - for a decent app will take longer than building the
app from scratch I guess. 

So - as I see it - this technique has its uses but app development is not on
of these.

/gustav







From Gustav at cactus.dk  Sun Aug 23 16:21:09 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 23:21:09 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications
Message-ID: <sa91cef8.098@cactus.dk>

Hi Shamil

Thanks for the tip. Not an easy one to figure out!

/gustav

>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 23-08-2009 22:54 >>>
Hi All,

While trying to move my DDEWA to my ASP.NET hosting site I have again got
some weird error messages: fortunately I have found solution of StackOverflow:

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/689355/metadataexception-unable-to-load-the-specified-metadata-resource

Connection string should start with:

connectionString="metadata=res://*/;

It worked well in my case.

FYI: it could take hours and hours to find the solution by yourself - here is one example how much time it costed to another developer:

http://forums.asp.net/p/1409590/3082930.aspx 

Thank you.

--
Shamil




From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Mon Aug 24 08:27:26 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:27:26 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] FTP and email in .Net
Message-ID: <4A92953E.1000304@colbyconsulting.com>

I am looking (Google) for how to ftp and email in .Net and am not finding anything.  Is this "built 
in" or otherwise readily available?

-- 
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


From Gustav at cactus.dk  Mon Aug 24 08:40:50 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 15:40:50 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] FTP and email in .Net
Message-ID: <sa92b491.016@cactus.dk>

Hi John

I've not used FTP only mail which mostly is SMTP. Look for the System.Net.Mail library and the SmtpClient.

It works very well. We have a client with an app using this on a daily basis for more than a year using their own SMTP Service running on an in-house server, and haven't seen a single issue.

If you need code, I can probably pull some out (C#).

/gustav

PS: A bit strange you can't google for this. That's how I found out how to do.

>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 24-08-2009 15:27 >>>
I am looking (Google) for how to ftp and email in .Net and am not finding anything.  Is this "built 
in" or otherwise readily available?

-- 
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com 





From R.Griffiths at bury.gov.uk  Mon Aug 24 08:44:22 2009
From: R.Griffiths at bury.gov.uk (Griffiths, Richard)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 14:44:22 +0100
Subject: [dba-VB] FTP and email in .Net
In-Reply-To: <4A92953E.1000304@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <4A92953E.1000304@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <200908241322.n7ODMPs27534@smarthost.yourcomms.net>

Hi

Have a look at

Dim ftp As Utilities.FTP.FTPclient

Richard
-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: 24 August 2009 14:27
To: VBA
Subject: [dba-VB] FTP and email in .Net

I am looking (Google) for how to ftp and email in .Net and am not
finding anything.  Is this "built 
in" or otherwise readily available?

-- 
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com
_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com

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Bury Council is now rated as a four star 'excellent' council by the Audit Commission.
This rating recognises the council's commitment to providing first class services
and providing good value for money.
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From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Mon Aug 24 08:50:57 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:50:57 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] FTP and email in .Net
In-Reply-To: <200908241322.n7ODMPs27534@smarthost.yourcomms.net>
References: <4A92953E.1000304@colbyconsulting.com>
	<200908241322.n7ODMPs27534@smarthost.yourcomms.net>
Message-ID: <4A929AC1.3010602@colbyconsulting.com>

Thanks Richard.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Griffiths, Richard wrote:
> Hi
> 
> Have a look at
> 
> Dim ftp As Utilities.FTP.FTPclient
> 
> Richard
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
> Sent: 24 August 2009 14:27
> To: VBA
> Subject: [dba-VB] FTP and email in .Net
> 
> I am looking (Google) for how to ftp and email in .Net and am not
> finding anything.  Is this "built 
> in" or otherwise readily available?
> 


From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Mon Aug 24 08:51:14 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:51:14 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] FTP and email in .Net
In-Reply-To: <sa92b491.016@cactus.dk>
References: <sa92b491.016@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <4A929AD2.1040201@colbyconsulting.com>

Thanks Gustav.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi John
> 
> I've not used FTP only mail which mostly is SMTP. Look for the System.Net.Mail library and the SmtpClient.
> 
> It works very well. We have a client with an app using this on a daily basis for more than a year using their own SMTP Service running on an in-house server, and haven't seen a single issue.
> 
> If you need code, I can probably pull some out (C#).
> 
> /gustav
> 
> PS: A bit strange you can't google for this. That's how I found out how to do.
> 
>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 24-08-2009 15:27 >>>
> I am looking (Google) for how to ftp and email in .Net and am not finding anything.  Is this "built 
> in" or otherwise readily available?
> 


From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Mon Aug 24 09:33:35 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 18:33:35 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] FTP and email in .Net
In-Reply-To: <4A92953E.1000304@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <4A92953E.1000304@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <002601ca24c7$e17714d0$a4653e70$@spb.ru>

Hi John,

FTT and SMPT e-maling are built-in.
FTP can be done many ways - I used System.Net.HttpWebRequest.
For SMTP e-mailing I used System.Net.Mail and related.

If you will not find ready to use samples on Internet we can "cook" some
samples for you here.

Thank you.

--
Shamil


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 5:27 PM
To: VBA
Subject: [dba-VB] FTP and email in .Net

I am looking (Google) for how to ftp and email in .Net and am not finding
anything.  Is this "built 
in" or otherwise readily available?

-- 
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com
_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4363 (20090824) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 



From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Mon Aug 24 12:38:52 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 21:38:52 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...
Message-ID: <003301ca24e1$c0a99060$41fcb120$@spb.ru>

Hi All,

 

I have found (I?m joking) that Russian is the most laconic language in expressing emotions and emotional states ? I mean Russian usually (always?) needs the least amount of letters to express emotions in written text/verbally ? here is one example - I have got translations from http://translate.google.com ? I can?t guarantee they are all correct. Also I?m not sure that non-Ascii letters will go well through wires ? the main purpose of this message is to test that - could be useful to know how it will work if some code samples here will have national alphabets used):

 

Russian: ????

 

English: I'm joking

Arabic:  ??? ????

Bulgarian: ?? ??? ??????

Hungarian: I'm vicc

Dutch: Ik ben een grapje

Greek: ??? ???????????

Hebrew: ??? ????

Indonesian: Aku bercanda

Spanish: Estoy bromeando

Italian: Sto scherzando

Chinese(Traditional): ?????

German: Ich scherze

Polish: Ja ?artuj?

Portugal: Estou brincando

Romanian: Eu glumesc

Serbs: ????? ??

Slovak: Ja si ?arty

Slovenes: ?alim

??????????: Ako biro

Turkish:  Ben ?aka yap?yorum ya??yorum

Ukrainian: ??????

French: Je plaisante

Hindi: ??? ???? ?? ??? ???

Croatian: ?alim se

Czech: J? si legraci

Swedish: Jag sk?mtar

Estonian: Ma nalja

Japan: ??????????

?

 

As you can see(?) in Russian you need just one word and 4 chars to write/say ?I?m joking?.

 

Thank you.

 

--

Shamil

 

P.S. Gustav, I didn?t find translation to Danish on translate.google.com ? what it is?



From max.wanadoo at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 13:02:58 2009
From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 19:02:58 +0100
Subject: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...
In-Reply-To: <003301ca24e1$c0a99060$41fcb120$@spb.ru>
References: <003301ca24e1$c0a99060$41fcb120$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <4a92d5e6.0a1ad00a.0893.0512@mx.google.com>

So?

Max
1 word, 2 letters ha!  You can't beat the British.  Ask anybody, ask the ozzies for instance...


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov
Sent: 24 August 2009 18:39
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...

Hi All,

 

I have found (I?m joking) that Russian is the most laconic language in expressing emotions and emotional states ? I mean Russian usually (always?) needs the least amount of letters to express emotions in written text/verbally ? here is one example - I have got translations from http://translate.google.com ? I can?t guarantee they are all correct. Also I?m not sure that non-Ascii letters will go well through wires ? the main purpose of this message is to test that - could be useful to know how it will work if some code samples here will have national alphabets used):

 

Russian: ????

 

English: I'm joking

Arabic:  ??? ????

Bulgarian: ?? ??? ??????

Hungarian: I'm vicc

Dutch: Ik ben een grapje

Greek: ??? ???????????

Hebrew: ??? ????

Indonesian: Aku bercanda

Spanish: Estoy bromeando

Italian: Sto scherzando

Chinese(Traditional): ?????

German: Ich scherze

Polish: Ja ?artuj?

Portugal: Estou brincando

Romanian: Eu glumesc

Serbs: ????? ??

Slovak: Ja si ?arty

Slovenes: ?alim

??????????: Ako biro

Turkish:  Ben ?aka yap?yorum ya??yorum

Ukrainian: ??????

French: Je plaisante

Hindi: ??? ???? ?? ??? ???

Croatian: ?alim se

Czech: J? si legraci

Swedish: Jag sk?mtar

Estonian: Ma nalja

Japan: ??????????

?

 

As you can see(?) in Russian you need just one word and 4 chars to write/say ?I?m joking?.

 

Thank you.

 

--

Shamil

 

P.S. Gustav, I didn?t find translation to Danish on translate.google.com ? what it is?

_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com





From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Mon Aug 24 13:15:38 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 14:15:38 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] One Click publish
Message-ID: <4A92D8CA.8060909@colbyconsulting.com>

Does the One Click thing publish the database as well for a database app?  If not, is there such a 
thing for publishing the database?

-- 
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Mon Aug 24 13:19:25 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 22:19:25 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...
In-Reply-To: <4a92d5e6.0a1ad00a.0893.0512@mx.google.com>
References: <003301ca24e1$c0a99060$41fcb120$@spb.ru>
	<4a92d5e6.0a1ad00a.0893.0512@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <003801ca24e7$6acb15a0$406140e0$@spb.ru>

?? ;) (pronounced as semi-long 'e' in 'Beatles')

One letter, one word - can you beat Russian? (I didn't yet mention here but there is a special Russian slang broadly used "in masses" here when you can use three, max four words to express everything. I must say this slang is "prohibited" to use when kids and women are around, so I'd not use it here - you can Google YouTube to hear some - Madonna before her visit here this August used one of this words in her advertisement of her coming concert on Palace Square here in St.Petersburg, in front of Hermitage (Hermitage officials and Russian Orthodox Church officials asked Madonna to not use uncensored (Russian) slang during that concert - and she didn't but as usual she behaved rather extravagant during this concert as I have seen in one of the clips (I wasn't there on Palace Square that day))...)

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:03 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...

So?

Max
1 word, 2 letters ha!  You can't beat the British.  Ask anybody, ask the ozzies for instance...


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov
Sent: 24 August 2009 18:39
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...

Hi All,

 

I have found (I?m joking) that Russian is the most laconic language in expressing emotions and emotional states ? I mean Russian usually (always?) needs the least amount of letters to express emotions in written text/verbally ? here is one example - I have got translations from http://translate.google.com ? I can?t guarantee they are all correct. Also I?m not sure that non-Ascii letters will go well through wires ? the main purpose of this message is to test that - could be useful to know how it will work if some code samples here will have national alphabets used):

 

Russian: ????

 

English: I'm joking

Arabic:  ??? ????

Bulgarian: ?? ??? ??????

Hungarian: I'm vicc

Dutch: Ik ben een grapje

Greek: ??? ???????????

Hebrew: ??? ????

Indonesian: Aku bercanda

Spanish: Estoy bromeando

Italian: Sto scherzando

Chinese(Traditional): ?????

German: Ich scherze

Polish: Ja ?artuj?

Portugal: Estou brincando

Romanian: Eu glumesc

Serbs: ????? ??

Slovak: Ja si ?arty

Slovenes: ?alim

??????????: Ako biro

Turkish:  Ben ?aka yap?yorum ya??yorum

Ukrainian: ??????

French: Je plaisante

Hindi: ??? ???? ?? ??? ???

Croatian: ?alim se

Czech: J? si legraci

Swedish: Jag sk?mtar

Estonian: Ma nalja

Japan: ??????????

?

 

As you can see(?) in Russian you need just one word and 4 chars to write/say ?I?m joking?.

 

Thank you.

 

--

Shamil

 

P.S. Gustav, I didn?t find translation to Danish on translate.google.com ? what it is?

_______________________________________________

 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4364 (20090824) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 




From Gustav at cactus.dk  Mon Aug 24 13:32:38 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 20:32:38 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...
Message-ID: <sa92f90a.022@cactus.dk>

Hi Shamil

(like Swedish ...)

Danish: Jeg sk?mter
or: Jeg joker

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 24-08-2009 19:38 >>>
Hi All,

 

I have found (I?m joking) that Russian is the most laconic language in expressing emotions and emotional states ? I mean Russian usually (always?) needs the least amount of letters to express emotions in written text/verbally ? here is one example - I have got translations from http://translate.google.com ? I can?t guarantee they are all correct. Also I?m not sure that non-Ascii letters will go well through wires ? the main purpose of this message is to test that - could be useful to know how it will work if some code samples here will have national alphabets used):

 

Russian: ????

 

English: I'm joking

Arabic:  ??? ????

Bulgarian: ?? ??? ??????

Hungarian: I'm vicc

Dutch: Ik ben een grapje

Greek: *?? ???????????

Hebrew: ??? ????

Indonesian: Aku bercanda

Spanish: Estoy bromeando

Italian: Sto scherzando

Chinese(Traditional): *****

German: Ich scherze

Polish: Ja ?artuj?

Portugal: Estou brincando

Romanian: Eu glumesc

Serbs: ????? ??

Slovak: Ja si ?arty

Slovenes: ?alim

??????????: Ako biro

Turkish:  Ben ?aka yap?yorum ya??yorum

Ukrainian: ??????

French: Je plaisante

Hindi: *** **** ** *** ***

Croatian: ?alim se

Czech: J? si legraci

Swedish: Jag sk?mtar

Estonian: Ma nalja

Japan: *?**?*????

?

 

As you can see(?) in Russian you need just one word and 4 chars to write/say ?I?m joking?.

 

Thank you.

 

--

Shamil

 

P.S. Gustav, I didn?t find translation to Danish on translate.google.com ? what it is?





From Gustav at cactus.dk  Mon Aug 24 13:37:01 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 20:37:01 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] One Click publish
Message-ID: <sa92f9fa.023@cactus.dk>

Hi John

Yes, at least for SQL Server. Some explanation here:

http://www.databasejournal.com/features/mssql/article.php/3714536/SQL-Server-2005-Express-Edition---Part-12---ClickOnce-Deployment-and-Updates.htm 

/gustav

>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 24-08-2009 20:15 >>>
Does the One Click thing publish the database as well for a database app?  If not, is there such a 
thing for publishing the database?

-- 
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com 





From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Mon Aug 24 14:06:32 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 23:06:32 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] One Click publish
In-Reply-To: <sa92f9fa.023@cactus.dk>
References: <sa92f9fa.023@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <003901ca24ed$ff506b70$fdf14250$@spb.ru>

Hi John and Gustav,

I must say, I have spent some time trying to figure out how to setup some
data(base) locally with Click-Once setup - and I just gave up because that
wasn't a work paid by a customer urging that setup and having a money to pay
for it: I mean this is a very advanced subject IMO - "Click-Once setup with
local data(base). For myself I decided to use Click-Once setup only talking
to (external) web-services or to local preinstalled MS SQL database, which
connection string is known for Click-Once app (although I didn't test how it
works) - Click-Once apps are usually having very limited access rights to
the host system they run on - IOW they run in "sandbox" - one can try to
bypass these limitations by using Code Access Security (CAS) manipulation on
runtime but again that's is an advanced subject...

...IOW Click-Once setup of apps with unlimited permissions is as dangerous
as ActiveXes setup - not recommended(?)...

"There is no free cheese in this world"

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:37 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] One Click publish

Hi John

Yes, at least for SQL Server. Some explanation here:

http://www.databasejournal.com/features/mssql/article.php/3714536/SQL-Server
-2005-Express-Edition---Part-12---ClickOnce-Deployment-and-Updates.htm 

/gustav

>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 24-08-2009 20:15 >>>
Does the One Click thing publish the database as well for a database app?
If not, is there such a 
thing for publishing the database?

-- 
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com 



 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4364 (20090824) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 



From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Mon Aug 24 14:11:24 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 23:11:24 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...
In-Reply-To: <sa92f90a.022@cactus.dk>
References: <sa92f90a.022@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <003a01ca24ee$adf63290$09e297b0$@spb.ru>

Thank you, Gustav.

--
Shamil

P.S. As far as I see most of the national alphabets letters went well through wire - something like 80% of them - let's assume that the test worked OK. Thank you.

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:33 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...

Hi Shamil

(like Swedish ...)

Danish: Jeg sk?mter
or: Jeg joker

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 24-08-2009 19:38 >>>
Hi All,

 

I have found (I?m joking) that Russian is the most laconic language in expressing emotions and emotional states ? I mean Russian usually (always?) needs the least amount of letters to express emotions in written text/verbally ? here is one example - I have got translations from http://translate.google.com ? I can?t guarantee they are all correct. Also I?m not sure that non-Ascii letters will go well through wires ? the main purpose of this message is to test that - could be useful to know how it will work if some code samples here will have national alphabets used):

 

Russian: ????

 

English: I'm joking

Arabic:  ??? ????

Bulgarian: ?? ??? ??????

Hungarian: I'm vicc

Dutch: Ik ben een grapje

Greek: *?? ???????????

Hebrew: ??? ????

Indonesian: Aku bercanda

Spanish: Estoy bromeando

Italian: Sto scherzando

Chinese(Traditional): *****

German: Ich scherze

Polish: Ja ?artuj?

Portugal: Estou brincando

Romanian: Eu glumesc

Serbs: ????? ??

Slovak: Ja si ?arty

Slovenes: ?alim

??????????: Ako biro

Turkish:  Ben ?aka yap?yorum ya??yorum

Ukrainian: ??????

French: Je plaisante

Hindi: *** **** ** *** ***

Croatian: ?alim se

Czech: J? si legraci

Swedish: Jag sk?mtar

Estonian: Ma nalja

Japan: *?**?*????

?

 

As you can see(?) in Russian you need just one word and 4 chars to write/say ?I?m joking?.

 

Thank you.

 

--

Shamil

 

P.S. Gustav, I didn?t find translation to Danish on translate.google.com ? what it is?



_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com

 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4364 (20090824) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 




From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Mon Aug 24 14:15:53 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 15:15:53 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] One Click publish
In-Reply-To: <003901ca24ed$ff506b70$fdf14250$@spb.ru>
References: <sa92f9fa.023@cactus.dk> <003901ca24ed$ff506b70$fdf14250$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <4A92E6E9.5040409@colbyconsulting.com>

Hmm....

I am looking at building an application in .Net.  This application will be used by my users but will 
also possibly be sold to companies.  Thus the application install has to somehow do an initial setup 
of a database.  As changes are made, any database changes have to be pushed along with the 
application changes.

The application will "start small and expand" so I am expecting the application and it's database to 
grow over the years.

Perhaps Click-Once is not the method for this kind of situation?

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote:
> Hi John and Gustav,
> 
> I must say, I have spent some time trying to figure out how to setup some
> data(base) locally with Click-Once setup - and I just gave up because that
> wasn't a work paid by a customer urging that setup and having a money to pay
> for it: I mean this is a very advanced subject IMO - "Click-Once setup with
> local data(base). For myself I decided to use Click-Once setup only talking
> to (external) web-services or to local preinstalled MS SQL database, which
> connection string is known for Click-Once app (although I didn't test how it
> works) - Click-Once apps are usually having very limited access rights to
> the host system they run on - IOW they run in "sandbox" - one can try to
> bypass these limitations by using Code Access Security (CAS) manipulation on
> runtime but again that's is an advanced subject...
> 
> ...IOW Click-Once setup of apps with unlimited permissions is as dangerous
> as ActiveXes setup - not recommended(?)...
> 
> "There is no free cheese in this world"
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> --
> Shamil
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
> Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:37 PM
> To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] One Click publish
> 
> Hi John
> 
> Yes, at least for SQL Server. Some explanation here:
> 
> http://www.databasejournal.com/features/mssql/article.php/3714536/SQL-Server
> -2005-Express-Edition---Part-12---ClickOnce-Deployment-and-Updates.htm 
> 
> /gustav
> 
>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 24-08-2009 20:15 >>>
> Does the One Click thing publish the database as well for a database app?
> If not, is there such a 
> thing for publishing the database?
> 


From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Mon Aug 24 15:04:08 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 00:04:08 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] One Click publish
In-Reply-To: <4A92E6E9.5040409@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <sa92f9fa.023@cactus.dk> <003901ca24ed$ff506b70$fdf14250$@spb.ru>
	<4A92E6E9.5040409@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <003b01ca24f6$0b91cde0$22b569a0$@spb.ru>

Yes, then you probably better use ordinary setup procedures: there are
special setup projects in VS, not sure they exist in C#/VB Express - please
check. But I anyway do not use these VS setup projects - I accustomed to use
INNO-Setup (free) setup scripts, which I have created once a long ago to
setup my/my customer MS Access apps, and I now use with some edits to setup
.NET apps - works pretty well for many customers and projects...

Thank you.

--
Shamil 

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 11:16 PM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] One Click publish

Hmm....

I am looking at building an application in .Net.  This application will be
used by my users but will 
also possibly be sold to companies.  Thus the application install has to
somehow do an initial setup 
of a database.  As changes are made, any database changes have to be pushed
along with the 
application changes.

The application will "start small and expand" so I am expecting the
application and it's database to 
grow over the years.

Perhaps Click-Once is not the method for this kind of situation?

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote:
> Hi John and Gustav,
> 
> I must say, I have spent some time trying to figure out how to setup some
> data(base) locally with Click-Once setup - and I just gave up because that
> wasn't a work paid by a customer urging that setup and having a money to
pay
> for it: I mean this is a very advanced subject IMO - "Click-Once setup
with
> local data(base). For myself I decided to use Click-Once setup only
talking
> to (external) web-services or to local preinstalled MS SQL database, which
> connection string is known for Click-Once app (although I didn't test how
it
> works) - Click-Once apps are usually having very limited access rights to
> the host system they run on - IOW they run in "sandbox" - one can try to
> bypass these limitations by using Code Access Security (CAS) manipulation
on
> runtime but again that's is an advanced subject...
> 
> ...IOW Click-Once setup of apps with unlimited permissions is as dangerous
> as ActiveXes setup - not recommended(?)...
> 
> "There is no free cheese in this world"
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> --
> Shamil
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
> Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:37 PM
> To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] One Click publish
> 
> Hi John
> 
> Yes, at least for SQL Server. Some explanation here:
> 
>
http://www.databasejournal.com/features/mssql/article.php/3714536/SQL-Server
> -2005-Express-Edition---Part-12---ClickOnce-Deployment-and-Updates.htm 
> 
> /gustav
> 
>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 24-08-2009 20:15 >>>
> Does the One Click thing publish the database as well for a database app?
> If not, is there such a 
> thing for publishing the database?
> 
_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4364 (20090824) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru


 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4364 (20090824) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 



From Gustav at cactus.dk  Mon Aug 24 16:18:18 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 23:18:18 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] One Click publish
Message-ID: <sa931fd9.024@cactus.dk>

Hi John and Shamil

It is not that complicated ... once you find out how. That took me quite some time because I had to both distribute the app (that's easy) and install a font (not so easy) at each workstation. Most of the bumps are due to security precautions.

I have previously posted about how to do this and the tool needed:

http://databaseadvisors.com/pipermail/dba-vb/2008-October/002037.html 

In your case you would prepare an SQL Server quiet install package and arrange that as a prerequisite for your app.

/gustav

>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 24-08-2009 21:06 >>>
Hi John and Gustav,

I must say, I have spent some time trying to figure out how to setup some
data(base) locally with Click-Once setup - and I just gave up because that
wasn't a work paid by a customer urging that setup and having a money to pay
for it: I mean this is a very advanced subject IMO - "Click-Once setup with
local data(base). For myself I decided to use Click-Once setup only talking
to (external) web-services or to local preinstalled MS SQL database, which
connection string is known for Click-Once app (although I didn't test how it
works) - Click-Once apps are usually having very limited access rights to
the host system they run on - IOW they run in "sandbox" - one can try to
bypass these limitations by using Code Access Security (CAS) manipulation on
runtime but again that's is an advanced subject...

...IOW Click-Once setup of apps with unlimited permissions is as dangerous
as ActiveXes setup - not recommended(?)...

"There is no free cheese in this world"

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:37 PM
To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com 
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] One Click publish

Hi John

Yes, at least for SQL Server. Some explanation here:

http://www.databasejournal.com/features/mssql/article.php/3714536/SQL-Server 
-2005-Express-Edition---Part-12---ClickOnce-Deployment-and-Updates.htm 

/gustav

>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 24-08-2009 20:15 >>>
Does the One Click thing publish the database as well for a database app?
If not, is there such a 
thing for publishing the database?

-- 
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com 





From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Mon Aug 24 16:18:48 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 17:18:48 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev
Message-ID: <4A9303B8.20507@colbyconsulting.com>

I am going to do a virtual machine to do my development on.  This allows me to move it around on an 
external disk between host machines.

My question is what OS would you suggest for the VM for development in .Net?  My available choices 
are XP, 2003 and Vista (and maybe Server 2008).

Also how much disk space for the virtual hard disk?

Even though I have been using Vista on my main development laptop for a couple of years, I still 
hate it, so that would not be my first choice.

Windows 2003 is a very stable environment but it is also a server OS and I have run into a lot of 
applications, PerfectDisk for example, which refuse to run on a server OS OR want you to pay 
hundreds of dollars for something that costs $50 for XP.

Which leaves me with XP which is getting long in the tooth.

Any yes, I have a copy of Server 2008 which I assume would have the same "is a server OS" issues 
that 2003 brings with it.

Any thoughts on this?

BTW I think I am going to bring up a server machine (real hardware) to run the Server 2008 license I 
have.

-- 
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


From Gustav at cactus.dk  Mon Aug 24 16:32:39 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 23:32:39 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev
Message-ID: <sa932340.025@cactus.dk>

Hi John

Vista if you ask me. Or, of course, Windows 7 when you can get hold on it.
Hanging on with Win XP is too lame.

But my primary development machine I wouldn't run in a VM.

/gustav

>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 24-08-2009 23:18 >>>
I am going to do a virtual machine to do my development on.  This allows me to move it around on an 
external disk between host machines.

My question is what OS would you suggest for the VM for development in .Net?  My available choices 
are XP, 2003 and Vista (and maybe Server 2008).

Also how much disk space for the virtual hard disk?

Even though I have been using Vista on my main development laptop for a couple of years, I still 
hate it, so that would not be my first choice.

Windows 2003 is a very stable environment but it is also a server OS and I have run into a lot of 
applications, PerfectDisk for example, which refuse to run on a server OS OR want you to pay 
hundreds of dollars for something that costs $50 for XP.

Which leaves me with XP which is getting long in the tooth.

Any yes, I have a copy of Server 2008 which I assume would have the same "is a server OS" issues 
that 2003 brings with it.

Any thoughts on this?

BTW I think I am going to bring up a server machine (real hardware) to run the Server 2008 license I 
have.

-- 
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com 





From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Mon Aug 24 16:36:26 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 01:36:26 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev
In-Reply-To: <4A9303B8.20507@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <4A9303B8.20507@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <004501ca2502$f5369dc0$dfa3d940$@spb.ru>

Hi John,

Win XP SP2 should be OK for up to .NET Framework 3.5 SP1, I'm not sure about
.NET Framework 4.0 - but I'd hope it should be OK too.

I do use Vista Ultimate as my main development PC, I do have WinXP SP2 to
test my setups, as well as I used MS Windows 2003 Server in the past and it
worked well while using it to develop .NET apps.

Windows 2008 should be probably the best choice, but it's not necessary I
suppose: as far as I understand new .NET versions just add new .NET
Framework classes and technologies, which run on top of "good old Win32API",
which didn't change that much since WinXP, and if something new comes in
windows system then that new parts should be installed OK from WinXP SP2 and
up...

I have seen customers are now starting to request .NET apps running on 64
bit machines as well as utilizing optimally multi-core systems - I do not
have that experience yet... 

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 1:19 AM
To: VBA
Subject: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev

I am going to do a virtual machine to do my development on.  This allows me
to move it around on an 
external disk between host machines.

My question is what OS would you suggest for the VM for development in .Net?
My available choices 
are XP, 2003 and Vista (and maybe Server 2008).

Also how much disk space for the virtual hard disk?

Even though I have been using Vista on my main development laptop for a
couple of years, I still 
hate it, so that would not be my first choice.

Windows 2003 is a very stable environment but it is also a server OS and I
have run into a lot of 
applications, PerfectDisk for example, which refuse to run on a server OS OR
want you to pay 
hundreds of dollars for something that costs $50 for XP.

Which leaves me with XP which is getting long in the tooth.

Any yes, I have a copy of Server 2008 which I assume would have the same "is
a server OS" issues 
that 2003 brings with it.

Any thoughts on this?

BTW I think I am going to bring up a server machine (real hardware) to run
the Server 2008 license I 
have.

-- 
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com
_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4364 (20090824) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru


 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4364 (20090824) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 



From dbdoug at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 16:46:19 2009
From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 14:46:19 -0700
Subject: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev
In-Reply-To: <4A9303B8.20507@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <4A9303B8.20507@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <4dd71a0c0908241446k303b83e6odcdf9f3cd9eeec46@mail.gmail.com>

Hi John:

My development environment is a  15GB VMWare virtual machine.  I installed
Win XP, VS2008 (C# only, I think, but all the help files), SQL Server
Express 2005, and Office 2003.  I have less than 1GB free.

Doug

On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 2:18 PM, jwcolby <jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com>wrote:

> I am going to do a virtual machine to do my development on.  This allows me
> to move it around on an
> external disk between host machines.
>
> My question is what OS would you suggest for the VM for development in
> .Net?  My available choices
> are XP, 2003 and Vista (and maybe Server 2008).
>
> Also how much disk space for the virtual hard disk?
>
>


From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Mon Aug 24 17:02:58 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 18:02:58 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev
In-Reply-To: <sa932340.025@cactus.dk>
References: <sa932340.025@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <4A930E12.6010106@colbyconsulting.com>

Gustav,

 > But my primary development machine I wouldn't run in a VM.

Why is that?  I have used VMs for this for awhile now, and I think it works well.

I have VMS Server on both of my Server 2003 machines and they have very fast processors and lots of 
memory so it makes the VM run fast and I can assign lots of memory to the VM if I need.

OTOH I have VMWare player on my Vista laptop.  While it is a fairly fast laptop it only has 4 gigs 
of RAM.

By running the VM off of a USB drive I can move it around pretty much at will.  I kind of like that.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi John
> 
> Vista if you ask me. Or, of course, Windows 7 when you can get hold on it.
> Hanging on with Win XP is too lame.
> 
> But my primary development machine I wouldn't run in a VM.
> 
> /gustav
> 
>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 24-08-2009 23:18 >>>
> I am going to do a virtual machine to do my development on.  This allows me to move it around on an 
> external disk between host machines.
> 
> My question is what OS would you suggest for the VM for development in .Net?  My available choices 
> are XP, 2003 and Vista (and maybe Server 2008).
> 
> Also how much disk space for the virtual hard disk?
> 
> Even though I have been using Vista on my main development laptop for a couple of years, I still 
> hate it, so that would not be my first choice.
> 
> Windows 2003 is a very stable environment but it is also a server OS and I have run into a lot of 
> applications, PerfectDisk for example, which refuse to run on a server OS OR want you to pay 
> hundreds of dollars for something that costs $50 for XP.
> 
> Which leaves me with XP which is getting long in the tooth.
> 
> Any yes, I have a copy of Server 2008 which I assume would have the same "is a server OS" issues 
> that 2003 brings with it.
> 
> Any thoughts on this?
> 
> BTW I think I am going to bring up a server machine (real hardware) to run the Server 2008 license I 
> have.
> 


From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Mon Aug 24 17:05:04 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 18:05:04 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev
In-Reply-To: <4dd71a0c0908241446k303b83e6odcdf9f3cd9eeec46@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4A9303B8.20507@colbyconsulting.com>
	<4dd71a0c0908241446k303b83e6odcdf9f3cd9eeec46@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A930E90.3010501@colbyconsulting.com>

ROTFL.

I have an XP VM with 30 gigs and it has about 15 gigs free.  I was worried about that small amount. 
  1 gig free would make me nervous.

I have a 7200 RPM laptop drive with 100 gigs in an external case, USB 2.0 interface.  I thought I 
would put whatever I use on that.  I like to work on my laptop and haul stuff around, and I want the 
VM to be portable between host machines.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Doug Steele wrote:
> Hi John:
> 
> My development environment is a  15GB VMWare virtual machine.  I installed
> Win XP, VS2008 (C# only, I think, but all the help files), SQL Server
> Express 2005, and Office 2003.  I have less than 1GB free.
> 
> Doug
> 
> On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 2:18 PM, jwcolby <jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com>wrote:
> 
>> I am going to do a virtual machine to do my development on.  This allows me
>> to move it around on an
>> external disk between host machines.
>>
>> My question is what OS would you suggest for the VM for development in
>> .Net?  My available choices
>> are XP, 2003 and Vista (and maybe Server 2008).
>>
>> Also how much disk space for the virtual hard disk?
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 


From cfoust at infostatsystems.com  Mon Aug 24 18:07:20 2009
From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:07:20 -0700
Subject: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev
In-Reply-To: <4A9303B8.20507@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <4A9303B8.20507@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <F55048AF7E974F429BB24597D7355EEABFADE0@INFOSERVER04.infostat.local>

You need to be sure whatever you build will install properly in Vista.
We ran into problems because we had always written to the Local Machine
in the registry.  Vista pretends to go along with that but it actually
writes to the current user, which can cause a lot of confusion when
licenses are applied.  We're trying to find a way to use an encrypted
file instead to handle licensing now.

Charlotte Foust 

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 2:19 PM
To: VBA
Subject: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev

I am going to do a virtual machine to do my development on.  This allows
me to move it around on an external disk between host machines.

My question is what OS would you suggest for the VM for development in
.Net?  My available choices are XP, 2003 and Vista (and maybe Server
2008).

Also how much disk space for the virtual hard disk?

Even though I have been using Vista on my main development laptop for a
couple of years, I still hate it, so that would not be my first choice.

Windows 2003 is a very stable environment but it is also a server OS and
I have run into a lot of applications, PerfectDisk for example, which
refuse to run on a server OS OR want you to pay hundreds of dollars for
something that costs $50 for XP.

Which leaves me with XP which is getting long in the tooth.

Any yes, I have a copy of Server 2008 which I assume would have the same
"is a server OS" issues that 2003 brings with it.

Any thoughts on this?

BTW I think I am going to bring up a server machine (real hardware) to
run the Server 2008 license I have.

-



From max.wanadoo at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 18:26:18 2009
From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 00:26:18 +0100
Subject: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...
In-Reply-To: <003801ca24e7$6acb15a0$406140e0$@spb.ru>
References: <003301ca24e1$c0a99060$41fcb120$@spb.ru>	<4a92d5e6.0a1ad00a.0893.0512@mx.google.com>
	<003801ca24e7$6acb15a0$406140e0$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <4a9321b5.0707d00a.07f0.76d4@mx.google.com>

Well actually we have quite a few single letter word.

A? as in, what?
C? as in, see I told you so"
K? as in, OK.
O! as in, Oh!
P. as in Pee.
T. as in Tea.
U. as in You.
Y. as in Why.

Bit contrived, but there we go.

Ma



-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov
Sent: 24 August 2009 19:19
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...

?? ;) (pronounced as semi-long 'e' in 'Beatles')

One letter, one word - can you beat Russian? (I didn't yet mention here but there is a special Russian slang broadly used "in masses" here when you can use three, max four words to express everything. I must say this slang is "prohibited" to use when kids and women are around, so I'd not use it here - you can Google YouTube to hear some - Madonna before her visit here this August used one of this words in her advertisement of her coming concert on Palace Square here in St.Petersburg, in front of Hermitage (Hermitage officials and Russian Orthodox Church officials asked Madonna to not use uncensored (Russian) slang during that concert - and she didn't but as usual she behaved rather extravagant during this concert as I have seen in one of the clips (I wasn't there on Palace Square that day))...)

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:03 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...

So?

Max
1 word, 2 letters ha!  You can't beat the British.  Ask anybody, ask the ozzies for instance...


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov
Sent: 24 August 2009 18:39
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...

Hi All,

 

I have found (I?m joking) that Russian is the most laconic language in expressing emotions and emotional states ? I mean Russian usually (always?) needs the least amount of letters to express emotions in written text/verbally ? here is one example - I have got translations from http://translate.google.com ? I can?t guarantee they are all correct. Also I?m not sure that non-Ascii letters will go well through wires ? the main purpose of this message is to test that - could be useful to know how it will work if some code samples here will have national alphabets used):

 

Russian: ????

 

English: I'm joking

Arabic:  ??? ????

Bulgarian: ?? ??? ??????

Hungarian: I'm vicc

Dutch: Ik ben een grapje

Greek: ??? ???????????

Hebrew: ??? ????

Indonesian: Aku bercanda

Spanish: Estoy bromeando

Italian: Sto scherzando

Chinese(Traditional): ?????

German: Ich scherze

Polish: Ja ?artuj?

Portugal: Estou brincando

Romanian: Eu glumesc

Serbs: ????? ??

Slovak: Ja si ?arty

Slovenes: ?alim

??????????: Ako biro

Turkish:  Ben ?aka yap?yorum ya??yorum

Ukrainian: ??????

French: Je plaisante

Hindi: ??? ???? ?? ??? ???

Croatian: ?alim se

Czech: J? si legraci

Swedish: Jag sk?mtar

Estonian: Ma nalja

Japan: ??????????

?

 

As you can see(?) in Russian you need just one word and 4 chars to write/say ?I?m joking?.

 

Thank you.

 

--

Shamil

 

P.S. Gustav, I didn?t find translation to Danish on translate.google.com ? what it is?

_______________________________________________

 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4364 (20090824) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 


_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com





From max.wanadoo at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 18:28:19 2009
From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 00:28:19 +0100
Subject: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev
In-Reply-To: <F55048AF7E974F429BB24597D7355EEABFADE0@INFOSERVER04.infostat.local>
References: <4A9303B8.20507@colbyconsulting.com>
	<F55048AF7E974F429BB24597D7355EEABFADE0@INFOSERVER04.infostat.local>
Message-ID: <4a93222e.0702d00a.3fae.3be7@mx.google.com>

As I keep saying, put it in User Defined Properties  in the FE and BE -
cannot be beaten - travels with the MDB and no way of seeing it.  Encrypt it
too if you want.

No Registry, no .ini, no visible signs.

Max


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust
Sent: 25 August 2009 00:07
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev

You need to be sure whatever you build will install properly in Vista.
We ran into problems because we had always written to the Local Machine
in the registry.  Vista pretends to go along with that but it actually
writes to the current user, which can cause a lot of confusion when
licenses are applied.  We're trying to find a way to use an encrypted
file instead to handle licensing now.

Charlotte Foust 

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 2:19 PM
To: VBA
Subject: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev

I am going to do a virtual machine to do my development on.  This allows
me to move it around on an external disk between host machines.

My question is what OS would you suggest for the VM for development in
.Net?  My available choices are XP, 2003 and Vista (and maybe Server
2008).

Also how much disk space for the virtual hard disk?

Even though I have been using Vista on my main development laptop for a
couple of years, I still hate it, so that would not be my first choice.

Windows 2003 is a very stable environment but it is also a server OS and
I have run into a lot of applications, PerfectDisk for example, which
refuse to run on a server OS OR want you to pay hundreds of dollars for
something that costs $50 for XP.

Which leaves me with XP which is getting long in the tooth.

Any yes, I have a copy of Server 2008 which I assume would have the same
"is a server OS" issues that 2003 brings with it.

Any thoughts on this?

BTW I think I am going to bring up a server machine (real hardware) to
run the Server 2008 license I have.

-

_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From dbdoug at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 18:31:55 2009
From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:31:55 -0700
Subject: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...
In-Reply-To: <4a9321b5.0707d00a.07f0.76d4@mx.google.com>
References: <003301ca24e1$c0a99060$41fcb120$@spb.ru>
	<4a92d5e6.0a1ad00a.0893.0512@mx.google.com>
	<003801ca24e7$6acb15a0$406140e0$@spb.ru>
	<4a9321b5.0707d00a.07f0.76d4@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <4dd71a0c0908241631o7b3bf02cl7bac65ede528ccd5@mail.gmail.com>

Isn't A for 'orses?

Doug

On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 4:26 PM, Max Wanadoo <max.wanadoo at gmail.com> wrote:

> Well actually we have quite a few single letter word.
>
> A? as in, what?
> C? as in, see I told you so"
> K? as in, OK.
> O! as in, Oh!
> P. as in Pee.
> T. as in Tea.
> U. as in You.
> Y. as in Why.
>
>


From cfoust at infostatsystems.com  Mon Aug 24 19:40:59 2009
From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 17:40:59 -0700
Subject: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev
In-Reply-To: <4a93222e.0702d00a.3fae.3be7@mx.google.com>
References: <4A9303B8.20507@colbyconsulting.com><F55048AF7E974F429BB24597D7355EEABFADE0@INFOSERVER04.infostat.local>
	<4a93222e.0702d00a.3fae.3be7@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <F55048AF7E974F429BB24597D7355EEABFADE5@INFOSERVER04.infostat.local>

We're talking .Net here, Max.  Commercial applications.  We do NOT want
them to install this on every machine they own, only licensed copies.
Their mdbs may be SQL Server and their admins have access to the data,
even though the users can't get there.  It's a little more complicated
than it sounds.  When the app was in Access, we did something in the
mdbs.  That is obsolete these days (can you say Citrix?), so we have to
move with the times.

Charlotte Foust

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 4:28 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev

As I keep saying, put it in User Defined Properties  in the FE and BE -
cannot be beaten - travels with the MDB and no way of seeing it.
Encrypt it too if you want.

No Registry, no .ini, no visible signs.

Max




From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Mon Aug 24 22:28:08 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 23:28:08 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] OT: 2008 Server drivers
Message-ID: <4A935A48.3010204@colbyconsulting.com>

I have decided to install 2008 Server Enterprise, 64 bit on one of my machines.  I am wondering what 
server 2008 "looks like", or where it comes from.  Is it 2003 based?  Vista based?

I am wondering where to go for chipset drivers.  It installed just fine and started downloading 
updates.  As I write this it appears that one of the updates (or something) caused a blue screen. 
We shall see if it blew the install out of the water.

To be honest I was impressed that the install worked at all.

-- 
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Mon Aug 24 22:58:53 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 07:58:53 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...
In-Reply-To: <4a9321b5.0707d00a.07f0.76d4@mx.google.com>
References: <003301ca24e1$c0a99060$41fcb120$@spb.ru>	<4a92d5e6.0a1ad00a.0893.0512@mx.google.com>	<003801ca24e7$6acb15a0$406140e0$@spb.ru>
	<4a9321b5.0707d00a.07f0.76d4@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <004f01ca2538$5defbfb0$19cf3f10$@spb.ru>

Max,

?? - is a full word/expression, and the ones you quoted are short-cuts, right?

The meaning of '??' could be:

A? as in, what?
C? as in, see I told you so"
O! as in, Oh!

depending on context and length of pronunciation.

But the main meaning is a bit 'rude' (sorry, I'm just joking/kidding but the main meaning below is quite correct):

?? - 'It doesn't matter for me what you're telling, I don't care at all about that, you didn't convince me, do you have stronger/more reasonable arguments? If you'll continue that way, I'll lose my patience - ?... - you'll see then what I'll do with you...'

;)

--
Shamil

P.S. Leaving this morning for a short one day break, will go to collect wild mushrooms - a kind of sport here :)...

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo
Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 3:26 AM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...

Well actually we have quite a few single letter word.

A? as in, what?
C? as in, see I told you so"
K? as in, OK.
O! as in, Oh!
P. as in Pee.
T. as in Tea.
U. as in You.
Y. as in Why.

Bit contrived, but there we go.

Ma


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov
Sent: 24 August 2009 19:19
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...

?? ;) (pronounced as semi-long 'e' in 'Beatles')

One letter, one word - can you beat Russian? (I didn't yet mention here but there is a special Russian slang broadly used "in masses" here when you can use three, max four words to express everything. I must say this slang is "prohibited" to use when kids and women are around, so I'd not use it here - you can Google YouTube to hear some - Madonna before her visit here this August used one of this words in her advertisement of her coming concert on Palace Square here in St.Petersburg, in front of Hermitage (Hermitage officials and Russian Orthodox Church officials asked Madonna to not use uncensored (Russian) slang during that concert - and she didn't but as usual she behaved rather extravagant during this concert as I have seen in one of the clips (I wasn't there on Palace Square that day))...)

---
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:03 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...

So?

Max
1 word, 2 letters ha!  You can't beat the British.  Ask anybody, ask the ozzies for instance...


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov
Sent: 24 August 2009 18:39
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...

Hi All,

 

I have found (I?m joking) that Russian is the most laconic language in expressing emotions and emotional states ? I mean Russian usually (always?) needs the least amount of letters to express emotions in written text/verbally ? here is one example - I have got translations from http://translate.google.com ? I can?t guarantee they are all correct. Also I?m not sure that non-Ascii letters will go well through wires ? the main purpose of this message is to test that - could be useful to know how it will work if some code samples here will have national alphabets used):

 

Russian: ????

 

English: I'm joking

Arabic:  ??? ????

Bulgarian: ?? ??? ??????

Hungarian: I'm vicc

Dutch: Ik ben een grapje

Greek: ??? ???????????

Hebrew: ??? ????

Indonesian: Aku bercanda

Spanish: Estoy bromeando

Italian: Sto scherzando

Chinese(Traditional): ?????

German: Ich scherze

Polish: Ja ?artuj?

Portugal: Estou brincando

Romanian: Eu glumesc

Serbs: ????? ??

Slovak: Ja si ?arty

Slovenes: ?alim

??????????: Ako biro

Turkish:  Ben ?aka yap?yorum ya??yorum

Ukrainian: ??????

French: Je plaisante

Hindi: ??? ???? ?? ??? ???

Croatian: ?alim se

Czech: J? si legraci

Swedish: Jag sk?mtar

Estonian: Ma nalja

Japan: ??????????

?

 

As you can see(?) in Russian you need just one word and 4 chars to write/say ?I?m joking?.

 

Thank you.

 

--

Shamil

 

P.S. Gustav, I didn?t find translation to Danish on translate.google.com ? what it is?


 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4364 (20090824) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 




From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Tue Aug 25 00:49:15 2009
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 15:49:15 +1000
Subject: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...
In-Reply-To: <4a9321b5.0707d00a.07f0.76d4@mx.google.com>
References: <003301ca24e1$c0a99060$41fcb120$@spb.ru>,
	<003801ca24e7$6acb15a0$406140e0$@spb.ru>,
	<4a9321b5.0707d00a.07f0.76d4@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <4A937B5B.3910.BC8709A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

B - as in Buzz of like a B, Max.
E - as in That bloke Max,  e is an ijit.
F - as in I don't really give an F about this post
G - as in Gee, is that all you can think of?
I  - as I don't really care about this post
L  - as in Wot the L as you talking about
Q - as in I wouldn't Q to see this
R - as in R you serious?

YY UR. YY UB. ICUR YY 4 ME 

or th classic Two Ronnies sketch:
http://www2.prestel.co.uk/cello/swedish.htm



On 25 Aug 2009 at 0:26, Max Wanadoo wrote:

> Well actually we have quite a few single letter word.
> 
> A? as in, what?
> C? as in, see I told you so"
> K? as in, OK.
> O! as in, Oh!
> P. as in Pee.
> T. as in Tea.
> U. as in You.
> Y. as in Why.
> 
> Bit contrived, but there we go.
> 
> Ma
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov
> Sent: 24 August 2009 19:19
> To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...
> 
> ? ;) (pronounced as semi-long 'e' in 'Beatles')
> 
> One letter, one word - can you beat Russian? (I didn't yet mention here but there is a special Russian slang broadly used "in masses" here when you can use three, max four words to express everything. I must say this slang is "prohibited" to use when kids and women are around, so I'd not use it here - you can Google YouTube to hear some - Madonna before her visit here this August used one of this words in her advertisement of her coming concert on Palace Square here in St.Petersburg, in front of Hermitage (Hermitage officials and Russian Orthodox Church officials asked Madonna to not use uncensored (Russian) slang during that concert - and she didn't but as usual she behaved rather extravagant during this concert as I have seen in one of the clips (I wasn't there on Palace Square that day))...)
> 
> --
> Shamil
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo
> Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:03 PM
> To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...
> 
> So?
> 
> Max
> 1 word, 2 letters ha!  You can't beat the British.  Ask anybody, ask the ozzies for instance...
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov
> Sent: 24 August 2009 18:39
> To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
> Subject: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...
> 
> Hi All,
> 
>  
> 
> I have found (I?m joking) that Russian is the most laconic language in expressing emotions and emotional states - I mean Russian usually (always?) needs the least amount of letters to express emotions in written text/verbally - here is one example - I have got translations from http://translate.google.com - I can?t guarantee they are all correct Also ITMm not sure that non-Ascii letters will go well through wires " the main purpose of this essage is to test that - could be useful to know how it will work if some code samples here will have national alhabets used):
> 
>  
> 
> Russian: 
> 
>  
> 
> English: I'm joking
> 
> Arabic:   
> 
> Bulgarian:   
> 
> Hungarian: I'm vicc
> 
> Dutch: Ik ben een grapje
> 
> Greek:  
> 
> Hebrew:  
> 
> Indonesian: Aku bercanda
> 
> Spanish: Estoy bromeando
> 
> Italian: Sto scherzando
> 
> Chinese(Traditional): 
> 
> German: Ich scherze
> 
> Polish: Ja zartuje
> 
> Portugal: Estou brincando
> 
> Romanian: Eu glumesc
> 
> Serbs:  
> 
> Slovak: Ja si zarty
> 
> Slovenes: Salim
> 
> : Ako biro
> 
> Turkish:  Ben saka yapiyorum yasiyorum
> 
> Ukrainian: 
> 
> French: Je plaisante
> 
> Hindi:     
> 
> Croatian: Salim se
> 
> Czech: J? si legraci
> 
> Swedish: Jag sk?mtar
> 
> Estonian: Ma nalja
> 
> Japan: 
> 
> ...
> 
>  
> 
> As you can see(?) in Russian you need just one word and 4 chars to write/say "I?m joking".
> 
>  
> 
> Thank you.
> 
>  
> 
> --
> 
> Shamil
> 
>  
> 
> P.S. Gustav, I didn?t find translation to Danish on translate.google.com - what it is?
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
>  
> 
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4364 (20090824) __________
> 
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
> 
> http://www.esetnod32.ru
>  
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 





From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Tue Aug 25 00:57:04 2009
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 15:57:04 +1000
Subject: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev
In-Reply-To: <F55048AF7E974F429BB24597D7355EEABFADE5@INFOSERVER04.infostat.local>
References: <4A9303B8.20507@colbyconsulting.com>,
	<4a93222e.0702d00a.3fae.3be7@mx.google.com>,
	<F55048AF7E974F429BB24597D7355EEABFADE5@INFOSERVER04.infostat.local>
Message-ID: <4A937D30.31885.BCF96FF@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

So use encrypted data in the BE.  You can store as much random rubbish as you want in a 
system table with various embedded nuggets of encrypted information.  Query it on startup.

If the admins touch it at all, your check code won't validate and  the system can trigger an 
alert - then they'll  have to pay for you to fix it. :-)

-- 
Stuart

On 24 Aug 2009 at 17:40, Charlotte Foust wrote:

> We're talking .Net here, Max.  Commercial applications.  We do NOT want
> them to install this on every machine they own, only licensed copies.
> Their mdbs may be SQL Server and their admins have access to the data,
> even though the users can't get there.  It's a little more complicated
> than it sounds.  When the app was in Access, we did something in the
> mdbs.  That is obsolete these days (can you say Citrix?), so we have to
> move with the times.
> 
> Charlotte Foust
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo
> Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 4:28 PM
> To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev
> 
> As I keep saying, put it in User Defined Properties  in the FE and BE -
> cannot be beaten - travels with the MDB and no way of seeing it.
> Encrypt it too if you want.
> 
> No Registry, no .ini, no visible signs.
> 
> Max
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 




From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Tue Aug 25 00:58:44 2009
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 15:58:44 +1000
Subject: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...
In-Reply-To: <004f01ca2538$5defbfb0$19cf3f10$@spb.ru>
References: <003301ca24e1$c0a99060$41fcb120$@spb.ru>,
	<4a9321b5.0707d00a.07f0.76d4@mx.google.com>,
	<004f01ca2538$5defbfb0$19cf3f10$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <4A937D94.14315.BD11EA5@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

Useful - how do you promounce it?

-- 
Stuart

On 25 Aug 2009 at 7:58, Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote:

> Max,
> 
> ? - is a full word/expression, and the ones you quoted are short-cuts, right?
> 
> The meaning of '?' could be:
> 
> A? as in, what?
> C? as in, see I told you so"
> O! as in, Oh!
> 
> depending on context and length of pronunciation.
> 
> But the main meaning is a bit 'rude' (sorry, I'm just joking/kidding
> but the main meaning below is quite correct): 
> 
> ?? - 'It doesn't matter for me what you're telling, I don't care at
> all about that, you didn't convince me, do you have stronger/more
> reasonable arguments? If you'll continue that way, I'll lose my
> patience - ?... - you'll see then what I'll do with you...' 
> 
> ;)
> 
> --
> Shamil




From Gustav at cactus.dk  Tue Aug 25 01:48:47 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 08:48:47 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev
Message-ID: <sa93a57f.028@cactus.dk>

Hi John

Because I don't move that machine around. And I like to have access to all memory available and full speed graphics.

/gustav

>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 25-08-2009 00:02 >>>
Gustav,

 > But my primary development machine I wouldn't run in a VM.

Why is that?  I have used VMs for this for awhile now, and I think it works well.

I have VMS Server on both of my Server 2003 machines and they have very fast processors and lots of 
memory so it makes the VM run fast and I can assign lots of memory to the VM if I need.

OTOH I have VMWare player on my Vista laptop.  While it is a fairly fast laptop it only has 4 gigs 
of RAM.

By running the VM off of a USB drive I can move it around pretty much at will.  I kind of like that.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com 


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi John
> 
> Vista if you ask me. Or, of course, Windows 7 when you can get hold on it.
> Hanging on with Win XP is too lame.
> 
> But my primary development machine I wouldn't run in a VM.
> 
> /gustav
> 
>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 24-08-2009 23:18 >>>
> I am going to do a virtual machine to do my development on.  This allows me to move it around on an 
> external disk between host machines.
> 
> My question is what OS would you suggest for the VM for development in .Net?  My available choices 
> are XP, 2003 and Vista (and maybe Server 2008).
> 
> Also how much disk space for the virtual hard disk?
> 
> Even though I have been using Vista on my main development laptop for a couple of years, I still 
> hate it, so that would not be my first choice.
> 
> Windows 2003 is a very stable environment but it is also a server OS and I have run into a lot of 
> applications, PerfectDisk for example, which refuse to run on a server OS OR want you to pay 
> hundreds of dollars for something that costs $50 for XP.
> 
> Which leaves me with XP which is getting long in the tooth.
> 
> Any yes, I have a copy of Server 2008 which I assume would have the same "is a server OS" issues 
> that 2003 brings with it.
> 
> Any thoughts on this?
> 
> BTW I think I am going to bring up a server machine (real hardware) to run the Server 2008 license I 
> have.






From max.wanadoo at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 13:47:45 2009
From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 19:47:45 +0100
Subject: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...
In-Reply-To: <004f01ca2538$5defbfb0$19cf3f10$@spb.ru>
References: <003301ca24e1$c0a99060$41fcb120$@spb.ru>	<4a92d5e6.0a1ad00a.0893.0512@mx.google.com>	<003801ca24e7$6acb15a0$406140e0$@spb.ru>	<4a9321b5.0707d00a.07f0.76d4@mx.google.com>
	<004f01ca2538$5defbfb0$19cf3f10$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <4a9431f5.0506d00a.27c0.ffffc160@mx.google.com>

Not rude, just the normal vernacular.

For example, I am reading a book or similar and you shout in "Hey Max, fancy a beer?". I say "What do you think I am sitting on?" and you say "..I said beer not chair you stupid old git" and I say "O". as an expression of surprise. And you then say "C", pause and say "I do put my hands in my pockets sometimes" and I say "A", pause and then say "You will have to speak up I am a bit deaf" and you say "Not deaf, daft" and I say "rollocks" 

Max


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov
Sent: 25 August 2009 04:59
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...

Max,

?? - is a full word/expression, and the ones you quoted are short-cuts, right?

The meaning of '??' could be:

A? as in, what?
C? as in, see I told you so"
O! as in, Oh!

depending on context and length of pronunciation.

But the main meaning is a bit 'rude' (sorry, I'm just joking/kidding but the main meaning below is quite correct):

?? - 'It doesn't matter for me what you're telling, I don't care at all about that, you didn't convince me, do you have stronger/more reasonable arguments? If you'll continue that way, I'll lose my patience - ?... - you'll see then what I'll do with you...'

;)

--
Shamil

P.S. Leaving this morning for a short one day break, will go to collect wild mushrooms - a kind of sport here :)...

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo
Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 3:26 AM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...

Well actually we have quite a few single letter word.

A? as in, what?
C? as in, see I told you so"
K? as in, OK.
O! as in, Oh!
P. as in Pee.
T. as in Tea.
U. as in You.
Y. as in Why.

Bit contrived, but there we go.

Ma


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov
Sent: 24 August 2009 19:19
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...

?? ;) (pronounced as semi-long 'e' in 'Beatles')

One letter, one word - can you beat Russian? (I didn't yet mention here but there is a special Russian slang broadly used "in masses" here when you can use three, max four words to express everything. I must say this slang is "prohibited" to use when kids and women are around, so I'd not use it here - you can Google YouTube to hear some - Madonna before her visit here this August used one of this words in her advertisement of her coming concert on Palace Square here in St.Petersburg, in front of Hermitage (Hermitage officials and Russian Orthodox Church officials asked Madonna to not use uncensored (Russian) slang during that concert - and she didn't but as usual she behaved rather extravagant during this concert as I have seen in one of the clips (I wasn't there on Palace Square that day))...)

---
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:03 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...

So?

Max
1 word, 2 letters ha!  You can't beat the British.  Ask anybody, ask the ozzies for instance...


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov
Sent: 24 August 2009 18:39
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...

Hi All,

 

I have found (I?m joking) that Russian is the most laconic language in expressing emotions and emotional states ? I mean Russian usually (always?) needs the least amount of letters to express emotions in written text/verbally ? here is one example - I have got translations from http://translate.google.com ? I can?t guarantee they are all correct. Also I?m not sure that non-Ascii letters will go well through wires ? the main purpose of this message is to test that - could be useful to know how it will work if some code samples here will have national alphabets used):

 

Russian: ????

 

English: I'm joking

Arabic:  ??? ????

Bulgarian: ?? ??? ??????

Hungarian: I'm vicc

Dutch: Ik ben een grapje

Greek: ??? ???????????

Hebrew: ??? ????

Indonesian: Aku bercanda

Spanish: Estoy bromeando

Italian: Sto scherzando

Chinese(Traditional): ?????

German: Ich scherze

Polish: Ja ?artuj?

Portugal: Estou brincando

Romanian: Eu glumesc

Serbs: ????? ??

Slovak: Ja si ?arty

Slovenes: ?alim

??????????: Ako biro

Turkish:  Ben ?aka yap?yorum ya??yorum

Ukrainian: ??????

French: Je plaisante

Hindi: ??? ???? ?? ??? ???

Croatian: ?alim se

Czech: J? si legraci

Swedish: Jag sk?mtar

Estonian: Ma nalja

Japan: ??????????

?

 

As you can see(?) in Russian you need just one word and 4 chars to write/say ?I?m joking?.

 

Thank you.

 

--

Shamil

 

P.S. Gustav, I didn?t find translation to Danish on translate.google.com ? what it is?


 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4364 (20090824) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 


_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com





From max.wanadoo at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 14:34:15 2009
From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 20:34:15 +0100
Subject: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev
In-Reply-To: <F55048AF7E974F429BB24597D7355EEABFADE5@INFOSERVER04.infostat.local>
References: <4A9303B8.20507@colbyconsulting.com><F55048AF7E974F429BB24597D7355EEABFADE0@INFOSERVER04.infostat.local>	<4a93222e.0702d00a.3fae.3be7@mx.google.com>
	<F55048AF7E974F429BB24597D7355EEABFADE5@INFOSERVER04.infostat.local>
Message-ID: <4a943cd9.1c07d00a.2460.4d4e@mx.google.com>

Charlotte,

With code, you can do anything you want to do, whenever, for whoever.  All
without writing to a Registry or a .ini file.

That's all I am saying.

Lets say on the FE you have code which registers itself with the BE and the
BE holds values to indicate, for example.

1.How many installed copies it will allow and details of these.
2. Howe many concurrent users are permitted and logs them on/off as they
connect to it.  Code to inform the users of what is happening (ie, sorry you
have exceeded the licenced concurrent users,  please log off".
3. Expirary date, renewal date, oh endless stuff.

And so on.

Max


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust
Sent: 25 August 2009 01:41
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev

We're talking .Net here, Max.  Commercial applications.  We do NOT want
them to install this on every machine they own, only licensed copies.
Their mdbs may be SQL Server and their admins have access to the data,
even though the users can't get there.  It's a little more complicated
than it sounds.  When the app was in Access, we did something in the
mdbs.  That is obsolete these days (can you say Citrix?), so we have to
move with the times.

Charlotte Foust

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 4:28 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] What OS for .Net dev

As I keep saying, put it in User Defined Properties  in the FE and BE -
cannot be beaten - travels with the MDB and no way of seeing it.
Encrypt it too if you want.

No Registry, no .ini, no visible signs.

Max


_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From max.wanadoo at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 14:34:15 2009
From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 20:34:15 +0100
Subject: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...
In-Reply-To: <4dd71a0c0908241631o7b3bf02cl7bac65ede528ccd5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <003301ca24e1$c0a99060$41fcb120$@spb.ru>	<4a92d5e6.0a1ad00a.0893.0512@mx.google.com>	<003801ca24e7$6acb15a0$406140e0$@spb.ru>	<4a9321b5.0707d00a.07f0.76d4@mx.google.com>
	<4dd71a0c0908241631o7b3bf02cl7bac65ede528ccd5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4a943cd4.1c07d00a.2460.4d38@mx.google.com>

H is for aitch.

All cockneys know that.

Max


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele
Sent: 25 August 2009 00:32
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] OT: I'm joking...

Isn't A for 'orses?

Doug

On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 4:26 PM, Max Wanadoo <max.wanadoo at gmail.com> wrote:

> Well actually we have quite a few single letter word.
>
> A? as in, what?
> C? as in, see I told you so"
> K? as in, OK.
> O! as in, Oh!
> P. as in Pee.
> T. as in Tea.
> U. as in You.
> Y. as in Why.
>
>
_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From bheid at sc.rr.com  Tue Aug 25 17:21:51 2009
From: bheid at sc.rr.com (Bobby Heid)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 18:21:51 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] [AccessD] OT: 2008 Server drivers
In-Reply-To: <4A935A48.3010204@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <4A935A48.3010204@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <002701ca25d2$7216b0d0$56441270$@rr.com>

It is my understanding that Vista (maybe Vista SP1) and 2008 share the same
code base.

Thanks,
Bobby

-----Original Message-----
From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 11:28 PM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA
Subject: [AccessD] OT: 2008 Server drivers

I have decided to install 2008 Server Enterprise, 64 bit on one of my
machines.  I am wondering what 
server 2008 "looks like", or where it comes from.  Is it 2003 based?  Vista
based?

I am wondering where to go for chipset drivers.  It installed just fine and
started downloading 
updates.  As I write this it appears that one of the updates (or something)
caused a blue screen. 
We shall see if it blew the install out of the water.

To be honest I was impressed that the install worked at all.

-- 
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com
-- 
AccessD mailing list
AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd
Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com




From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Wed Aug 26 08:04:15 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 09:04:15 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Dreamspark - FREE DEVELOPER SOFTWARE for students
Message-ID: <4A9532CF.1060505@colbyconsulting.com>

Yesterday I registered at my local community college for a C# class.  In talking to the teacher I 
discovered that Microsoft is giving away software to students.  In order to get the software you 
must have an email address that ends in .edu, which you would get through your school.

I am currently downloading VS 2008 Professional!

Go to:

www.dreamspark.com

Available software:

Visual Studio 2008 Professional
SQL Server 2008 Professional
Windows Server 2008 Standard
Virtual PC
Expression Studio 3
Robotics Developer Studio 2008
XNA game studio 3.1

as well as links to all of the express editions of visual studio (which is already free).  I'm not 
even sure what those last three are.

Conspicuously missing is any version of Office.  But for us developers...

The software comes as an ISO so you will have to burn it to disk or otherwise mount it on a virtual 
disk drive.

BTW AFAICT this may also be available for students "overseas" as we in the US call it.

As for Office, I think I already mentioned:

http://www.microsoft.com/student/discounts/theultimatesteal-us/default.aspx


-- 
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


From Gustav at cactus.dk  Fri Aug 28 05:18:22 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 12:18:22 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] FTP and email in .Net
Message-ID: <sa97cb24.001@cactus.dk>

Hi John et al

If you wish to test sending of e-mail without actually sending it, you'll need a dummy SMTP server or a mock.
I found a very simple one (or rather the C# code to build one) here:

  http://geekswithblogs.net/imilovanovic/archive/2004/09/27/11783.aspx 

Call it like this:

  SmtpMock smtpServerMock = new SmtpMock ();   
  smtpServerMock.Start();  
  System.Web.Mail.SmtpMail.SmtpServer = "localhost";   
  System.Web.Mail.SmtpMail.Send("somebody at foo.com", "everybody at bar.com", "This is the subject", "This is the body.");  
  smtpServerMock.Stop ();

It keeps the log in SessionProtocol.

I'll test this at a later occasion.

/gustav


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 5:27 PM
To: VBA
Subject: [dba-VB] FTP and email in .Net

I am looking (Google) for how to ftp and email in .Net and am not finding anything.  Is this "built in" or otherwise readily available?

-- 
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com 





From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Fri Aug 28 08:11:18 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 09:11:18 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
Message-ID: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>

I am looking at doing an application in C# that needs to be able to run on user systems around the 
country, but manipulate data in a common location.  IOW employees can be anywhere, running this 
program on their machine, but reading / writing data to a central server.

It is a fairly simple application in terms of the data, a hand full of fairly stable and short list 
tables that feed combos, and a couple of "log" kind of tables that document processes.  It would be 
nice to have access to a fairly complex directory structure containing data files that need to be 
imported by and exported from this program.  Again these files are small, less than a thousand lines 
of data, fixed width or CSV.  I am looking at the files now and the largest appear to be 80K or so.

I am thinking that a VPN tunnel to allow access to the data directories, which are then mapped to a 
drive on the local workstation.  Some kind of data store on the server, perhaps SQL Server Express. 
  A local data store to do the import into, manipulation / cleanup of data, export back to files on 
the remote server directory structure.

I am wondering if you guys have experience in setting up this kind of a server and application to 
work on such a server.

-- 
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


From ebarro at verizon.net  Fri Aug 28 08:54:25 2009
From: ebarro at verizon.net (Eric Barro)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 06:54:25 -0700
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <A0EE8D558F30475DA302FCEDB2F81D4F@advancedinput.com>

John,

This is a good candidate for a web service. A web service allows you to
expose certain methods to client machines outside the network.

1. Basically in terms of servers you will need a web server and a database
server (one physical server is possible but two are better due to security
issues).
2. The web server exposes the web service application and takes care of
authentication to the database server. The web server is the only one that
is publicly accessible from the outside.

This saves you from having to set up VPN client software on the client
machines and also saves you from having to purchase hardware to run the VPN
on the server side.

Eric


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 6:11 AM
To: VBA
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet

I am looking at doing an application in C# that needs to be able to run on
user systems around the country, but manipulate data in a common location.
IOW employees can be anywhere, running this program on their machine, but
reading / writing data to a central server.

It is a fairly simple application in terms of the data, a hand full of
fairly stable and short list tables that feed combos, and a couple of "log"
kind of tables that document processes.  It would be nice to have access to
a fairly complex directory structure containing data files that need to be
imported by and exported from this program.  Again these files are small,
less than a thousand lines of data, fixed width or CSV.  I am looking at the
files now and the largest appear to be 80K or so.

I am thinking that a VPN tunnel to allow access to the data directories,
which are then mapped to a drive on the local workstation.  Some kind of
data store on the server, perhaps SQL Server Express. 
  A local data store to do the import into, manipulation / cleanup of data,
export back to files on the remote server directory structure.

I am wondering if you guys have experience in setting up this kind of a
server and application to work on such a server.

--
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com
_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From Gustav at cactus.dk  Fri Aug 28 09:04:50 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 16:04:50 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
Message-ID: <sa98004c.008@cactus.dk>

Hi John

A well-proven method would be to read and write these files from/to an FTP server.
Another method is to store the files as fields in an SQL Server.

Both of these methods, however, may run into trouble meeting clients' firewalls and won't work at all if the server is off-line.

A novel approach would be store them at Amazon Web Services. This is incredible cheap and frees you from running a central server of any kind.

Finally, like Eric tells, the probably fastest method to setup is a web service - could be hosted anywhere.
The VPN method and shared drives I would only recommend for a corporate setup.

It could be interesting following your considerations and solution for the project.

/gustav


>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-08-2009 15:11 >>>
I am looking at doing an application in C# that needs to be able to run on user systems around the 
country, but manipulate data in a common location.  IOW employees can be anywhere, running this 
program on their machine, but reading / writing data to a central server.

It is a fairly simple application in terms of the data, a hand full of fairly stable and short list 
tables that feed combos, and a couple of "log" kind of tables that document processes.  It would be 
nice to have access to a fairly complex directory structure containing data files that need to be 
imported by and exported from this program.  Again these files are small, less than a thousand lines 
of data, fixed width or CSV.  I am looking at the files now and the largest appear to be 80K or so.

I am thinking that a VPN tunnel to allow access to the data directories, which are then mapped to a 
drive on the local workstation.  Some kind of data store on the server, perhaps SQL Server Express. 
  A local data store to do the import into, manipulation / cleanup of data, export back to files on 
the remote server directory structure.

I am wondering if you guys have experience in setting up this kind of a server and application to 
work on such a server.

-- 
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com 





From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Fri Aug 28 10:43:03 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 11:43:03 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <A0EE8D558F30475DA302FCEDB2F81D4F@advancedinput.com>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>
	<A0EE8D558F30475DA302FCEDB2F81D4F@advancedinput.com>
Message-ID: <4A97FB07.9090701@colbyconsulting.com>

Eric,

Thanks for the response.  I assume you are discussing a "browser based application"?

If so there are a couple of issues that I see.
1) I would have to learn a whole new paradigm from scratch.
2) Multi-user issues.

The client is a SOHO with "employees" consisting mostly of family members, who would work from their 
homes.  I understand the "setup" issues but at least for now that would be a very small number of 
machines.  I just talked to the client and, for example, he has two production scanners, one in CT 
and the other in Nashville.  It would be nice for each scanner to drop the scanned files (CSV files) 
into a common directory structure in the office in CT.  The program would then pull the CSVs across 
the internet into the local instance wherever that might be, import it into a local data store, 
process the data, then export the tables back out into a fixed width file back in the same server 
(different path) that the CSV came from.

You get the picture.  The thing that might make this work is that the files are tiny, 80 kb is the 
biggest I have seen so far.  I am actually looking at installing Hamachi on each of his "satellite 
offices" PCs, and building a virtual network around that Hamachi client.

I don't contend that this solution works for a huge system but not every system is huge!  And if it 
gets huge then the money will be there to support hardware VPNs etc.  Or even a port to a web 
service at that point.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Eric Barro wrote:
> John,
> 
> This is a good candidate for a web service. A web service allows you to
> expose certain methods to client machines outside the network.
> 
> 1. Basically in terms of servers you will need a web server and a database
> server (one physical server is possible but two are better due to security
> issues).
> 2. The web server exposes the web service application and takes care of
> authentication to the database server. The web server is the only one that
> is publicly accessible from the outside.
> 
> This saves you from having to set up VPN client software on the client
> machines and also saves you from having to purchase hardware to run the VPN
> on the server side.
> 
> Eric



From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Fri Aug 28 11:19:23 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 12:19:23 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <sa98004c.008@cactus.dk>
References: <sa98004c.008@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <4A98038B.9060806@colbyconsulting.com>

Gustav,

I have been working with this client refactoring the existing application.  It is in Access, and 
works entirely local to his SOHO.  In fact ATM he only has one or two computers running the 
application.  It has a single form about 10 fields, about 10 tables feeding combos and such.

He scans documents received from his clients, using Omnipage.  The user manually selects areas of 
documents and converts those to tables, the Omnipage software does that.  The documents are 
converted to CSV files and stored in a rather elaborate directory structure, probably about 150 
directories total.  Each directory can hold scans of many different documents.  That is all "front 
end" processing and the application is not CURRENTLY involved in that.

The application then imports each document, corrects scan errors, the user potentially manually 
edits fields in specific records if there is an OCR error where the fixit code didn't fix it.  The 
user does some analysis of the data.  Once satisfied with the edits, the data is exported back to a 
fixed width file which is a government specified format.  Those files are returned to his clients.

The application is really simple.  But he does want to be able to have several scanners in remote 
locations doing the scanning, and several instances of the application doing the conversion of the 
CSVs, and writing back to this fixed width file format, all reads / writes to a central location.

I think a simple Hamachi VPN is going to do the trick.  Being a SOHO and satellites in his kid's 
homes, corporate firewalls are less of an issue.  What is an issue is cost and complexity.  He and I 
ARE the IT department, and in the future IT will mostly be me.

So far what I have done for him has impressed.  He has another application planned which could be 
for sale.  That would be larger, would have to be more robust and a web application might be in 
order.  Even there though it appears that his clients are often smallish companies that might not 
have IT staff or not a big IT staff.

So I am coming up to speed on .net, C# etc in order to meet the future.  I think that this first app 
doesn't really NEED C#, it could be done totally in Access (it currently is in Access).  I do think 
that C# would be more robust and easier to update, upgrade and would handle some of the possible 
issues with talking to a centralized SQL Server instance a little easier.  If I have to go unbound / 
disconnected I might as well do it in C# or a cousin.

So I thought I would port it "for free".  Once the C# version does what the Access version already 
does and the client signs off on it, then I would go back to paid work on future stuff.  I need a 
live app in .Net to get me in Visual Studio on a daily basis.  I have done a fair amount of VB.Net 
stuff but without a reason to keep at it, it tends to be dropped after awhile.

 > A well-proven method would be to read and write these files from/to an FTP server.

I could certainly do that.  In fact I have to determine that Hamachi is actually capable to begin 
with, otherwise I will be back to casting around for solutions, and FTP might be the solution.

 > Another method is to store the files as fields in an SQL Server.

This is a great idea.  A simple application could monitor the directories and automatically open the 
files and import them into SQL Server.  Once in SQL Server, the current application would process 
SQL Server records instead of CSV files.  Likewise exporting the records back to the fixed width 
files for return to the client.

I will definitely have to keep that in mind.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi John
> 
> A well-proven method would be to read and write these files from/to an FTP server.
> Another method is to store the files as fields in an SQL Server.
> 
> Both of these methods, however, may run into trouble meeting clients' firewalls and won't work at all if the server is off-line.
> 
> A novel approach would be store them at Amazon Web Services. This is incredible cheap and frees you from running a central server of any kind.
> 
> Finally, like Eric tells, the probably fastest method to setup is a web service - could be hosted anywhere.
> The VPN method and shared drives I would only recommend for a corporate setup.
> 
> It could be interesting following your considerations and solution for the project.
> 
> /gustav



From Gustav at cactus.dk  Fri Aug 28 11:49:22 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 18:49:22 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
Message-ID: <sa9826c0.009@cactus.dk>

Hi John

OK, that gives a better picture. This is not a "corporate" project.

If you almost have the application running in Access, a close to zero cost (wild?) option would be to establish a shared drive with the Gladinet Cloud Desktop:

  http://www.gladinet.com 

which creates a local drive from one of these storage options:

Amazon Simple Storage Service (S3)
Google Picasa* Program
Google Docs* Program
Folders from Remote PCs - Standard Version only

Monthly costs at these remote storages are either free or extremely low.
One issue would be the sharing of single files but - if stored as discrete files - you will have to manage this somehow no matter what solution you decide for.

/gustav


>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-08-2009 18:19 >>>
Gustav,

I have been working with this client refactoring the existing application.  It is in Access, and 
works entirely local to his SOHO.  In fact ATM he only has one or two computers running the 
application.  It has a single form about 10 fields, about 10 tables feeding combos and such.

He scans documents received from his clients, using Omnipage.  The user manually selects areas of 
documents and converts those to tables, the Omnipage software does that.  The documents are 
converted to CSV files and stored in a rather elaborate directory structure, probably about 150 
directories total.  Each directory can hold scans of many different documents.  That is all "front 
end" processing and the application is not CURRENTLY involved in that.

The application then imports each document, corrects scan errors, the user potentially manually 
edits fields in specific records if there is an OCR error where the fixit code didn't fix it.  The 
user does some analysis of the data.  Once satisfied with the edits, the data is exported back to a 
fixed width file which is a government specified format.  Those files are returned to his clients.

The application is really simple.  But he does want to be able to have several scanners in remote 
locations doing the scanning, and several instances of the application doing the conversion of the 
CSVs, and writing back to this fixed width file format, all reads / writes to a central location.

I think a simple Hamachi VPN is going to do the trick.  Being a SOHO and satellites in his kid's 
homes, corporate firewalls are less of an issue.  What is an issue is cost and complexity.  He and I 
ARE the IT department, and in the future IT will mostly be me.

So far what I have done for him has impressed.  He has another application planned which could be 
for sale.  That would be larger, would have to be more robust and a web application might be in 
order.  Even there though it appears that his clients are often smallish companies that might not 
have IT staff or not a big IT staff.

So I am coming up to speed on .net, C# etc in order to meet the future.  I think that this first app 
doesn't really NEED C#, it could be done totally in Access (it currently is in Access).  I do think 
that C# would be more robust and easier to update, upgrade and would handle some of the possible 
issues with talking to a centralized SQL Server instance a little easier.  If I have to go unbound / 
disconnected I might as well do it in C# or a cousin.

So I thought I would port it "for free".  Once the C# version does what the Access version already 
does and the client signs off on it, then I would go back to paid work on future stuff.  I need a 
live app in .Net to get me in Visual Studio on a daily basis.  I have done a fair amount of VB.Net 
stuff but without a reason to keep at it, it tends to be dropped after awhile.

 > A well-proven method would be to read and write these files from/to an FTP server.

I could certainly do that.  In fact I have to determine that Hamachi is actually capable to begin 
with, otherwise I will be back to casting around for solutions, and FTP might be the solution.

 > Another method is to store the files as fields in an SQL Server.

This is a great idea.  A simple application could monitor the directories and automatically open the 
files and import them into SQL Server.  Once in SQL Server, the current application would process 
SQL Server records instead of CSV files.  Likewise exporting the records back to the fixed width 
files for return to the client.

I will definitely have to keep that in mind.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com 


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi John
> 
> A well-proven method would be to read and write these files from/to an FTP server.
> Another method is to store the files as fields in an SQL Server.
> 
> Both of these methods, however, may run into trouble meeting clients' firewalls and won't work at all if the server is off-line.
> 
> A novel approach would be store them at Amazon Web Services. This is incredible cheap and frees you from running a central server of any kind.
> 
> Finally, like Eric tells, the probably fastest method to setup is a web service - could be hosted anywhere.
> The VPN method and shared drives I would only recommend for a corporate setup.
> 
> It could be interesting following your considerations and solution for the project.
> 
> /gustav




From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Fri Aug 28 12:43:18 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 13:43:18 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] SPAM-LOW:  Re:  Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <sa9826c0.009@cactus.dk>
References: <sa9826c0.009@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <4A981736.6050900@colbyconsulting.com>

Gustav,

I have Hamachi already in place on the client's server as well as my system.  I routinely remote 
desktop in to his machine already.  I had set up the path to the data files (in / out) as a SysVar 
and so I mapped his remote database directory (on his server) to y: on my dev machine here at my 
office and changed my sysvar to point to the new location.

I then ran the existing Access application.  I set up my timer class to time the import, which uses 
a simple docmd.transfertext to pull the data from the CSV file into a first stage processing table.

Looking at five different runs, the time to import 835 records from a CSV file into a local table, 
across the internet using Hamachi is

Import From File took 72915 Milliseconds
Cleanup of raw data took 2354 Milliseconds
Import From File took 59250 Milliseconds
Cleanup of raw data took 4319 Milliseconds
Import From File took 23369 Milliseconds
Cleanup of raw data took 3307 Milliseconds
Import From File took 23354 Milliseconds
Cleanup of raw data took 3447 Milliseconds
Import From File took 23353 Milliseconds
Cleanup of raw data took 3181 Milliseconds

I had done a couple of runs before I set up the timer and the times there were approximately 24 
seconds as well.  So the "normal" time is around 24 seconds, but it can be quite lengthy as you can 
see, 73 seconds in the worst case so far.

What was going on during those longer time imports is unknown.  The server is being used to store 
these scan files as well as process them.  OTOH the server is also a 750 mhz pentium machine, pretty 
slow as servers go.  We have a new server ready to go online.

And of course this assumes fast internet at both ends.

I also built a button to allow them to open the source CSV files in notepad.  That only took

Time to open the file in Notepad 4930 Milliseconds
Time to open the file in Notepad 4290 Milliseconds
Time to open the file in Notepad 2855 Milliseconds
Time to open the file in Notepad 4274 Milliseconds

So obviously the import process itself is taking a fair amount of time.

Anyway... I would guess that for a small company like this, a Hamachi VPN to a central server is 
going to work quite well.  Low cost, reasonably fast, and easy to set up.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi John
> 
> OK, that gives a better picture. This is not a "corporate" project.
> 
> If you almost have the application running in Access, a close to zero cost (wild?) option would be to establish a shared drive with the Gladinet Cloud Desktop:
> 
>   http://www.gladinet.com 
> 
> which creates a local drive from one of these storage options:
> 
> Amazon Simple Storage Service (S3)
> Google Picasa* Program
> Google Docs* Program
> Folders from Remote PCs - Standard Version only
> 
> Monthly costs at these remote storages are either free or extremely low.
> One issue would be the sharing of single files but - if stored as discrete files - you will have to manage this somehow no matter what solution you decide for.
> 
> /gustav



From Gustav at cactus.dk  Fri Aug 28 13:31:00 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 20:31:00 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
Message-ID: <sa983eac.012@cactus.dk>

Hi John

That seems a bit slow to me but when it is set up and running and the price is right it should be fine - I mean, 73 seconds, should it matter?

/gustav


>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-08-2009 19:43 >>>
Gustav,

I have Hamachi already in place on the client's server as well as my system.  I routinely remote 
desktop in to his machine already.  I had set up the path to the data files (in / out) as a SysVar 
and so I mapped his remote database directory (on his server) to y: on my dev machine here at my 
office and changed my sysvar to point to the new location.

I then ran the existing Access application.  I set up my timer class to time the import, which uses 
a simple docmd.transfertext to pull the data from the CSV file into a first stage processing table.

Looking at five different runs, the time to import 835 records from a CSV file into a local table, 
across the internet using Hamachi is

Import From File took 72915 Milliseconds
Cleanup of raw data took 2354 Milliseconds
Import From File took 59250 Milliseconds
Cleanup of raw data took 4319 Milliseconds
Import From File took 23369 Milliseconds
Cleanup of raw data took 3307 Milliseconds
Import From File took 23354 Milliseconds
Cleanup of raw data took 3447 Milliseconds
Import From File took 23353 Milliseconds
Cleanup of raw data took 3181 Milliseconds

I had done a couple of runs before I set up the timer and the times there were approximately 24 
seconds as well.  So the "normal" time is around 24 seconds, but it can be quite lengthy as you can 
see, 73 seconds in the worst case so far.

What was going on during those longer time imports is unknown.  The server is being used to store 
these scan files as well as process them.  OTOH the server is also a 750 mhz pentium machine, pretty 
slow as servers go.  We have a new server ready to go online.

And of course this assumes fast internet at both ends.

I also built a button to allow them to open the source CSV files in notepad.  That only took

Time to open the file in Notepad 4930 Milliseconds
Time to open the file in Notepad 4290 Milliseconds
Time to open the file in Notepad 2855 Milliseconds
Time to open the file in Notepad 4274 Milliseconds

So obviously the import process itself is taking a fair amount of time.

Anyway... I would guess that for a small company like this, a Hamachi VPN to a central server is 
going to work quite well.  Low cost, reasonably fast, and easy to set up.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com 


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi John
> 
> OK, that gives a better picture. This is not a "corporate" project.
> 
> If you almost have the application running in Access, a close to zero cost (wild?) option would be to establish a shared drive with the Gladinet Cloud Desktop:
> 
>   http://www.gladinet.com 
> 
> which creates a local drive from one of these storage options:
> 
> Amazon Simple Storage Service (S3)
> Google Picasa* Program
> Google Docs* Program
> Folders from Remote PCs - Standard Version only
> 
> Monthly costs at these remote storages are either free or extremely low.
> One issue would be the sharing of single files but - if stored as discrete files - you will have to manage this somehow no matter what solution you decide for.
> 
> /gustav





From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Fri Aug 28 14:08:51 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:08:51 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] SPAM-LOW:  Re:  Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <sa983eac.012@cactus.dk>
References: <sa983eac.012@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <4A982B43.60402@colbyconsulting.com>

Especially if 24 seconds is the "norm".  Yea, that's not real time but it is over the internet, and 
it is the most complex file handled so far.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi John
> 
> That seems a bit slow to me but when it is set up and running and the price is right it should be fine - I mean, 73 seconds, should it matter?
> 
> /gustav
> 
> 
>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-08-2009 19:43 >>>
> Gustav,
> 
> I have Hamachi already in place on the client's server as well as my system.  I routinely remote 
> desktop in to his machine already.  I had set up the path to the data files (in / out) as a SysVar 
> and so I mapped his remote database directory (on his server) to y: on my dev machine here at my 
> office and changed my sysvar to point to the new location.
> 
> I then ran the existing Access application.  I set up my timer class to time the import, which uses 
> a simple docmd.transfertext to pull the data from the CSV file into a first stage processing table.
> 
> Looking at five different runs, the time to import 835 records from a CSV file into a local table, 
> across the internet using Hamachi is
> 
> Import From File took 72915 Milliseconds
> Cleanup of raw data took 2354 Milliseconds
> Import From File took 59250 Milliseconds
> Cleanup of raw data took 4319 Milliseconds
> Import From File took 23369 Milliseconds
> Cleanup of raw data took 3307 Milliseconds
> Import From File took 23354 Milliseconds
> Cleanup of raw data took 3447 Milliseconds
> Import From File took 23353 Milliseconds
> Cleanup of raw data took 3181 Milliseconds
> 
> I had done a couple of runs before I set up the timer and the times there were approximately 24 
> seconds as well.  So the "normal" time is around 24 seconds, but it can be quite lengthy as you can 
> see, 73 seconds in the worst case so far.
> 
> What was going on during those longer time imports is unknown.  The server is being used to store 
> these scan files as well as process them.  OTOH the server is also a 750 mhz pentium machine, pretty 
> slow as servers go.  We have a new server ready to go online.
> 
> And of course this assumes fast internet at both ends.
> 
> I also built a button to allow them to open the source CSV files in notepad.  That only took
> 
> Time to open the file in Notepad 4930 Milliseconds
> Time to open the file in Notepad 4290 Milliseconds
> Time to open the file in Notepad 2855 Milliseconds
> Time to open the file in Notepad 4274 Milliseconds
> 
> So obviously the import process itself is taking a fair amount of time.
> 
> Anyway... I would guess that for a small company like this, a Hamachi VPN to a central server is 
> going to work quite well.  Low cost, reasonably fast, and easy to set up.
> 
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com 



From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Fri Aug 28 14:29:59 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:29:59 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] SPAM-LOW:  Re:  Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <sa983eac.012@cactus.dk>
References: <sa983eac.012@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <4A983037.50105@colbyconsulting.com>

Gustav,

I created a shared directory on my "new" Windows 2008 server and copied the data file directory 
structure to there.  I then remoted in to the client's machine, mapped that new directory on my 
server back to my client's machine drive Y.  Copied my latest version of the FE to his machine and 
ran.

I am therefore now running the application on his server where I do dev work for him when not 
developing on my machine in my office.  I have mapped a directory on my server over Hamachi to Y: on 
that server in his office.  Running the same code:

Time to open the file in Notepad 2156 Milliseconds
Time to open the file in Notepad 500 Milliseconds
Time to open the file in Notepad 594 Milliseconds

Import From File took 5000 Milliseconds
Cleanup of raw data took 3750 Milliseconds
Import From File took 5016 Milliseconds
Cleanup of raw data took 3390 Milliseconds
Import From File took 4531 Milliseconds
Cleanup of raw data took 9031 Milliseconds
Import From File took 4547 Milliseconds
Cleanup of raw data took 3094 Milliseconds

As you can see, my times for the import process is now MUCH faster.  The file server is now hosted 
on my quad core (2 ghz real clock AMD) with 8 gigs of ram running Windows 2008.  BTW My upload speed 
(out of my office to the internet) is not particularly blazing at .5 mbit / second.

I have to conclude that the bottleneck is the server processing speed.  When I was running the app 
on my laptop accessing data at his office, the server was a single core Pentium III 500 mhz machine 
(just checked) running Windows XP SP3 and 256 MB of ram.

Obviously having a new server at his end will help!

I think these numbers are suddenly very usable.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi John
> 
> That seems a bit slow to me but when it is set up and running and the price is right it should be fine - I mean, 73 seconds, should it matter?
> 
> /gustav
> 
> 
>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-08-2009 19:43 >>>
> Gustav,
> 
> I have Hamachi already in place on the client's server as well as my system.  I routinely remote 
> desktop in to his machine already.  I had set up the path to the data files (in / out) as a SysVar 
> and so I mapped his remote database directory (on his server) to y: on my dev machine here at my 
> office and changed my sysvar to point to the new location.
> 
> I then ran the existing Access application.  I set up my timer class to time the import, which uses 
> a simple docmd.transfertext to pull the data from the CSV file into a first stage processing table.
> 
> Looking at five different runs, the time to import 835 records from a CSV file into a local table, 
> across the internet using Hamachi is
> 
> Import From File took 72915 Milliseconds
> Cleanup of raw data took 2354 Milliseconds
> Import From File took 59250 Milliseconds
> Cleanup of raw data took 4319 Milliseconds
> Import From File took 23369 Milliseconds
> Cleanup of raw data took 3307 Milliseconds
> Import From File took 23354 Milliseconds
> Cleanup of raw data took 3447 Milliseconds
> Import From File took 23353 Milliseconds
> Cleanup of raw data took 3181 Milliseconds
> 
> I had done a couple of runs before I set up the timer and the times there were approximately 24 
> seconds as well.  So the "normal" time is around 24 seconds, but it can be quite lengthy as you can 
> see, 73 seconds in the worst case so far.
> 
> What was going on during those longer time imports is unknown.  The server is being used to store 
> these scan files as well as process them.  OTOH the server is also a 750 mhz pentium machine, pretty 
> slow as servers go.  We have a new server ready to go online.
> 
> And of course this assumes fast internet at both ends.
> 
> I also built a button to allow them to open the source CSV files in notepad.  That only took
> 
> Time to open the file in Notepad 4930 Milliseconds
> Time to open the file in Notepad 4290 Milliseconds
> Time to open the file in Notepad 2855 Milliseconds
> Time to open the file in Notepad 4274 Milliseconds
> 
> So obviously the import process itself is taking a fair amount of time.
> 
> Anyway... I would guess that for a small company like this, a Hamachi VPN to a central server is 
> going to work quite well.  Low cost, reasonably fast, and easy to set up.
> 
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com 



From john at winhaven.net  Sat Aug 29 12:32:59 2009
From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 12:32:59 -0500
Subject: [dba-VB] Test2
Message-ID: <00bf01ca28ce$c15779f0$44066dd0$@net>

Test2

No trees were killed in the sending of this message, but a large number of
electrons were terribly inconvenienced.




From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Sat Aug 29 13:19:04 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 22:19:04 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <A0EE8D558F30475DA302FCEDB2F81D4F@advancedinput.com>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>
	<A0EE8D558F30475DA302FCEDB2F81D4F@advancedinput.com>
Message-ID: <002101ca28d5$3357af10$9a070d30$@spb.ru>

Yes, web service would be a good solution here.

I have made a test web service, which is located here:

http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx


You can test it using this code (c#):

using System;

namespace WebServiceDirectTestConsole
{
    class Program
    {
        //
        // Add ASP.NET 2.0 web service reference:
        //
http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx
        //
        static void Main(string[] args)
        {
            try
            {
                const int CALLS_QTY = 10;

                DateTime startTime = DateTime.Now;

 
WebServiceDirectTestConsole.FileServiceSample.WebServiceFacade
                    service = new
WebServiceDirectTestConsole.FileServiceSample.WebServiceFacade();
                
 
//http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/LoremIpsum.txt (50KB)
                string p = @"c:\temp\LoremIpsum.txt";
                string fileName = "testFile";
                string fileText = System.IO.File.ReadAllText(p);
                string text = null;

                for (int i = 1; i <= CALLS_QTY; i++)
                {
                    service.StoreFile(fileName + i.ToString(), fileText);
                    text = service.GetFile(fileName + i.ToString());
                }

                text = service.GetWebServiceUsageStatistics();

                Console.WriteLine(text);

                DateTime endTime = DateTime.Now;

                double elapsedTime = ((TimeSpan)(endTime -
startTime)).TotalSeconds;

                Console.WriteLine("Elapsed Time = {0:#0.00} seconds for {1}
calls ({2}s/call, fileSize = {3})",
                    elapsedTime, CALLS_QTY, elapsedTime / CALLS_QTY,
fileText.Length);

            }
            catch (Exception ex)
            {
                Console.WriteLine(ex.Message);
            }
        }
    }
}

One of the results of the above test runs is the following:

Total Web Calls: 20
Total Web Calls Duration: 20 ticks
Total Store File Web Calls: 10
Total Store File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
Total Get File Web Calls: 10
Total Get File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
Total Delete File Web Calls: 0
Total Delete File Web Calls Duration: 0 ticks
Currently Stored Files: 10
Currently Stored Files  Length: 503440

FILES
-----
fileName = testFile1, length = 50344
fileName = testFile2, length = 50344
fileName = testFile3, length = 50344
fileName = testFile4, length = 50344
fileName = testFile5, length = 50344
fileName = testFile6, length = 50344
fileName = testFile7, length = 50344
fileName = testFile8, length = 50344
fileName = testFile9, length = 50344
fileName = testFile10, length = 50344

Elapsed Time = 6,80 seconds for 10 calls (0,6799s/call, fileSize = 50467)


If you are interested we can make intensive test of this sample web service.

(I personally would be interested in such testing.)
I will make all its source code (simple) available on
northwind.codeplex.com.
This sample web service has already MS Access/VBA callable wrapper ActiveX
DLLs.

Thank you.

--
Shamil

P.S. Here is how the same web service can be called from MS Access/VBA using
ActiveX DLL wrapper library:

Option Compare Database
Option Explicit

Public Function TestWebServiceAdv()
Dim service As New MSAccessWebService
Const CALLS_QTY As Integer = 10
    Dim startTime As Date
    startTime = Now
    
    '//http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/LoremIpsum.txt (50KB)
    Dim p As String
    p = "c:\temp\LoremIpsum.txt"
    
    Dim fileName As String
    fileName = "testFile"
    Dim fileText As String
    fileText = ReadAllText(p)
    Dim text As String
    Dim i As Integer

    For i = 1 To CALLS_QTY Step 1
        service.StoreFile fileName + CStr(i), fileText
        text = service.GetFile(fileName + CStr(i))
    Next i
    
    Dim endTime As Date
    endTime = Now
    
    text = service.GetWebServiceUsageStatistics()
    Debug.Print text
    
    Dim elapsedTime As Double
    elapsedTime = DateDiff("s", startTime, endTime)
    Debug.Print elapsedTime & " seconds per " & _
           CStr(CALLS_QTY) & " calls"
End Function
                
Private Function ReadAllText(filePath As String) _
   As String
Dim text As String
Dim fn As Integer
Dim fileLen As Long
    fn = FreeFile
    Open filePath For Input As #fn
    fileLen = LOF(fn)
    text = Input(fileLen, fn)
    Close fn
    ReadAllText = text
End Function

One of the test calls results is the following:

Total Web Calls: 20
Total Web Calls Duration: 20 ticks
Total Store File Web Calls: 10
Total Store File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
Total Get File Web Calls: 10
Total Get File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
Total Delete File Web Calls: 0
Total Delete File Web Calls Duration: 0 ticks
Currently Stored Files: 10
Currently Stored Files  Length: 503460

FILES
-----
fileName = testFile1, length = 50346
fileName = testFile2, length = 50346
fileName = testFile3, length = 50346
fileName = testFile4, length = 50346
fileName = testFile5, length = 50346
fileName = testFile6, length = 50346
fileName = testFile7, length = 50346
fileName = testFile8, length = 50346
fileName = testFile9, length = 50346
fileName = testFile10, length = 50346

8 seconds per 10 calls


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Eric Barro
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 5:54 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet

John,

This is a good candidate for a web service. A web service allows you to
expose certain methods to client machines outside the network.

1. Basically in terms of servers you will need a web server and a database
server (one physical server is possible but two are better due to security
issues).
2. The web server exposes the web service application and takes care of
authentication to the database server. The web server is the only one that
is publicly accessible from the outside.

This saves you from having to set up VPN client software on the client
machines and also saves you from having to purchase hardware to run the VPN
on the server side.

Eric


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 6:11 AM
To: VBA
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet

I am looking at doing an application in C# that needs to be able to run on
user systems around the country, but manipulate data in a common location.
IOW employees can be anywhere, running this program on their machine, but
reading / writing data to a central server.

It is a fairly simple application in terms of the data, a hand full of
fairly stable and short list tables that feed combos, and a couple of "log"
kind of tables that document processes.  It would be nice to have access to
a fairly complex directory structure containing data files that need to be
imported by and exported from this program.  Again these files are small,
less than a thousand lines of data, fixed width or CSV.  I am looking at the
files now and the largest appear to be 80K or so.

I am thinking that a VPN tunnel to allow access to the data directories,
which are then mapped to a drive on the local workstation.  Some kind of
data store on the server, perhaps SQL Server Express. 
  A local data store to do the import into, manipulation / cleanup of data,
export back to files on the remote server directory structure.

I am wondering if you guys have experience in setting up this kind of a
server and application to work on such a server.

--
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com
_______________________________________________




From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Sat Aug 29 14:15:39 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 15:15:39 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <002101ca28d5$3357af10$9a070d30$@spb.ru>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>	<A0EE8D558F30475DA302FCEDB2F81D4F@advancedinput.com>
	<002101ca28d5$3357af10$9a070d30$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <4A997E5B.20909@colbyconsulting.com>

Thanks Shamil.

What is missing here is an explanation.

1) What IS a web service?
2) What are the pieces, and what do they do?  I assume that there is a service and a client?
3) What is this web service doing?
4) Doesn't it seem that ...

getting IIS and SQL Server set up, writing web services, writing a DLL for the client Access 
database, getting the existing system using the DLL and installing the DLL on each machine...

doesn't all of that seem much more complicated than installing Hamachi and mapping a shared 
directory to a drive letter?

Now, having said that, I have a future project which (if you would slow down and explain just what 
the heck this stuff was) MIGHT be a perfect fit for this technology.  OTOH, the future project is a 
system that I hope to sell to small drug companies.  Whatever this stuff is has to be point and 
click installable as software at the client's site.

As I mentioned to Eric, I am listening, but so far I haven't understood a word of what I am hearing.

Perhaps a reference to some book, or article that explains this stuff step by step...?

Thanks,

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote:
> Yes, web service would be a good solution here.
> 
> I have made a test web service, which is located here:
> 
> http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx
> 
> 
> You can test it using this code (c#):
> 
> using System;
> 
> namespace WebServiceDirectTestConsole
> {
>     class Program
>     {
>         //
>         // Add ASP.NET 2.0 web service reference:
>         //
> http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx
>         //
>         static void Main(string[] args)
>         {
>             try
>             {
>                 const int CALLS_QTY = 10;
> 
>                 DateTime startTime = DateTime.Now;
> 
>  
> WebServiceDirectTestConsole.FileServiceSample.WebServiceFacade
>                     service = new
> WebServiceDirectTestConsole.FileServiceSample.WebServiceFacade();
>                 
>  
> //http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/LoremIpsum.txt (50KB)
>                 string p = @"c:\temp\LoremIpsum.txt";
>                 string fileName = "testFile";
>                 string fileText = System.IO.File.ReadAllText(p);
>                 string text = null;
> 
>                 for (int i = 1; i <= CALLS_QTY; i++)
>                 {
>                     service.StoreFile(fileName + i.ToString(), fileText);
>                     text = service.GetFile(fileName + i.ToString());
>                 }
> 
>                 text = service.GetWebServiceUsageStatistics();
> 
>                 Console.WriteLine(text);
> 
>                 DateTime endTime = DateTime.Now;
> 
>                 double elapsedTime = ((TimeSpan)(endTime -
> startTime)).TotalSeconds;
> 
>                 Console.WriteLine("Elapsed Time = {0:#0.00} seconds for {1}
> calls ({2}s/call, fileSize = {3})",
>                     elapsedTime, CALLS_QTY, elapsedTime / CALLS_QTY,
> fileText.Length);
> 
>             }
>             catch (Exception ex)
>             {
>                 Console.WriteLine(ex.Message);
>             }
>         }
>     }
> }
> 
> One of the results of the above test runs is the following:
> 
> Total Web Calls: 20
> Total Web Calls Duration: 20 ticks
> Total Store File Web Calls: 10
> Total Store File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
> Total Get File Web Calls: 10
> Total Get File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
> Total Delete File Web Calls: 0
> Total Delete File Web Calls Duration: 0 ticks
> Currently Stored Files: 10
> Currently Stored Files  Length: 503440
> 
> FILES
> -----
> fileName = testFile1, length = 50344
> fileName = testFile2, length = 50344
> fileName = testFile3, length = 50344
> fileName = testFile4, length = 50344
> fileName = testFile5, length = 50344
> fileName = testFile6, length = 50344
> fileName = testFile7, length = 50344
> fileName = testFile8, length = 50344
> fileName = testFile9, length = 50344
> fileName = testFile10, length = 50344
> 
> Elapsed Time = 6,80 seconds for 10 calls (0,6799s/call, fileSize = 50467)
> 
> 
> If you are interested we can make intensive test of this sample web service.
> 
> (I personally would be interested in such testing.)
> I will make all its source code (simple) available on
> northwind.codeplex.com.
> This sample web service has already MS Access/VBA callable wrapper ActiveX
> DLLs.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> --
> Shamil
> 
> P.S. Here is how the same web service can be called from MS Access/VBA using
> ActiveX DLL wrapper library:
> 
> Option Compare Database
> Option Explicit
> 
> Public Function TestWebServiceAdv()
> Dim service As New MSAccessWebService
> Const CALLS_QTY As Integer = 10
>     Dim startTime As Date
>     startTime = Now
>     
>     '//http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/LoremIpsum.txt (50KB)
>     Dim p As String
>     p = "c:\temp\LoremIpsum.txt"
>     
>     Dim fileName As String
>     fileName = "testFile"
>     Dim fileText As String
>     fileText = ReadAllText(p)
>     Dim text As String
>     Dim i As Integer
> 
>     For i = 1 To CALLS_QTY Step 1
>         service.StoreFile fileName + CStr(i), fileText
>         text = service.GetFile(fileName + CStr(i))
>     Next i
>     
>     Dim endTime As Date
>     endTime = Now
>     
>     text = service.GetWebServiceUsageStatistics()
>     Debug.Print text
>     
>     Dim elapsedTime As Double
>     elapsedTime = DateDiff("s", startTime, endTime)
>     Debug.Print elapsedTime & " seconds per " & _
>            CStr(CALLS_QTY) & " calls"
> End Function
>                 
> Private Function ReadAllText(filePath As String) _
>    As String
> Dim text As String
> Dim fn As Integer
> Dim fileLen As Long
>     fn = FreeFile
>     Open filePath For Input As #fn
>     fileLen = LOF(fn)
>     text = Input(fileLen, fn)
>     Close fn
>     ReadAllText = text
> End Function
> 
> One of the test calls results is the following:
> 
> Total Web Calls: 20
> Total Web Calls Duration: 20 ticks
> Total Store File Web Calls: 10
> Total Store File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
> Total Get File Web Calls: 10
> Total Get File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
> Total Delete File Web Calls: 0
> Total Delete File Web Calls Duration: 0 ticks
> Currently Stored Files: 10
> Currently Stored Files  Length: 503460
> 
> FILES
> -----
> fileName = testFile1, length = 50346
> fileName = testFile2, length = 50346
> fileName = testFile3, length = 50346
> fileName = testFile4, length = 50346
> fileName = testFile5, length = 50346
> fileName = testFile6, length = 50346
> fileName = testFile7, length = 50346
> fileName = testFile8, length = 50346
> fileName = testFile9, length = 50346
> fileName = testFile10, length = 50346
> 
> 8 seconds per 10 calls
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Eric Barro
> Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 5:54 PM
> To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
> 
> John,
> 
> This is a good candidate for a web service. A web service allows you to
> expose certain methods to client machines outside the network.
> 
> 1. Basically in terms of servers you will need a web server and a database
> server (one physical server is possible but two are better due to security
> issues).
> 2. The web server exposes the web service application and takes care of
> authentication to the database server. The web server is the only one that
> is publicly accessible from the outside.
> 
> This saves you from having to set up VPN client software on the client
> machines and also saves you from having to purchase hardware to run the VPN
> on the server side.
> 
> Eric
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
> Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 6:11 AM
> To: VBA
> Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
> 
> I am looking at doing an application in C# that needs to be able to run on
> user systems around the country, but manipulate data in a common location.
> IOW employees can be anywhere, running this program on their machine, but
> reading / writing data to a central server.
> 
> It is a fairly simple application in terms of the data, a hand full of
> fairly stable and short list tables that feed combos, and a couple of "log"
> kind of tables that document processes.  It would be nice to have access to
> a fairly complex directory structure containing data files that need to be
> imported by and exported from this program.  Again these files are small,
> less than a thousand lines of data, fixed width or CSV.  I am looking at the
> files now and the largest appear to be 80K or so.
> 
> I am thinking that a VPN tunnel to allow access to the data directories,
> which are then mapped to a drive on the local workstation.  Some kind of
> data store on the server, perhaps SQL Server Express. 
>   A local data store to do the import into, manipulation / cleanup of data,
> export back to files on the remote server directory structure.
> 
> I am wondering if you guys have experience in setting up this kind of a
> server and application to work on such a server.
> 
> --
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com
> _______________________________________________
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 


From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Sat Aug 29 15:02:07 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 00:02:07 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <002101ca28d5$3357af10$9a070d30$@spb.ru>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>	<A0EE8D558F30475DA302FCEDB2F81D4F@advancedinput.com>
	<002101ca28d5$3357af10$9a070d30$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <002201ca28e3$978d2f60$c6a78e20$@spb.ru>

Hi All,

I have made additions to the web service/test code - sample text to send to
web service can be now generated on-the-fly/obtained from web service call:

using System;

namespace WebServiceDirectTestConsole
{
    class Program
    {
        //
        // Add ASP.NET 2.0 web service reference:
        //
http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx
        //
        static void Main(string[] args)
        {
            try
            {
                const int CALLS_QTY = 10;

                DateTime startTime = DateTime.Now;

 
WebServiceDirectTestConsole.FileServiceSample.WebServiceFacade
                    service = new
WebServiceDirectTestConsole.FileServiceSample.WebServiceFacade();
                
                string fileName = "testFile";
                string what = "bytes";
                long amount = 30000; // max=71680;
                string fileText = service.GetLoremIpsumText(amount, what);
                string text = null;

                for (int i = 1; i <= CALLS_QTY; i++)
                {
                    service.StoreFile(fileName + i.ToString(), fileText);
                    text = service.GetFile(fileName + i.ToString());
                }

                text = service.GetWebServiceUsageStatistics();

                Console.WriteLine(text);

                DateTime endTime = DateTime.Now;

                double elapsedTime = ((TimeSpan)(endTime -
startTime)).TotalSeconds;

                Console.WriteLine("Elapsed Time = {0:#0.00} seconds for {1}
calls ({2}s/call, fileSize = {3})",
                    elapsedTime, CALLS_QTY, elapsedTime / CALLS_QTY,
fileText.Length);

            }
            catch (Exception ex)
            {
                Console.WriteLine(ex.Message);
            }
        }

    }
}

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil
Salakhetdinov
Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 10:19 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet

Yes, web service would be a good solution here.

I have made a test web service, which is located here:

http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx


You can test it using this code (c#):

using System;

namespace WebServiceDirectTestConsole
{
    class Program
    {
        //
        // Add ASP.NET 2.0 web service reference:
        //
http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx
        //
        static void Main(string[] args)
        {
            try
            {
                const int CALLS_QTY = 10;

                DateTime startTime = DateTime.Now;

 
WebServiceDirectTestConsole.FileServiceSample.WebServiceFacade
                    service = new
WebServiceDirectTestConsole.FileServiceSample.WebServiceFacade();
                
 
//http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/LoremIpsum.txt (50KB)
                string p = @"c:\temp\LoremIpsum.txt";
                string fileName = "testFile";
                string fileText = System.IO.File.ReadAllText(p);
                string text = null;

                for (int i = 1; i <= CALLS_QTY; i++)
                {
                    service.StoreFile(fileName + i.ToString(), fileText);
                    text = service.GetFile(fileName + i.ToString());
                }

                text = service.GetWebServiceUsageStatistics();

                Console.WriteLine(text);

                DateTime endTime = DateTime.Now;

                double elapsedTime = ((TimeSpan)(endTime -
startTime)).TotalSeconds;

                Console.WriteLine("Elapsed Time = {0:#0.00} seconds for {1}
calls ({2}s/call, fileSize = {3})",
                    elapsedTime, CALLS_QTY, elapsedTime / CALLS_QTY,
fileText.Length);

            }
            catch (Exception ex)
            {
                Console.WriteLine(ex.Message);
            }
        }
    }
}

One of the results of the above test runs is the following:

Total Web Calls: 20
Total Web Calls Duration: 20 ticks
Total Store File Web Calls: 10
Total Store File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
Total Get File Web Calls: 10
Total Get File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
Total Delete File Web Calls: 0
Total Delete File Web Calls Duration: 0 ticks
Currently Stored Files: 10
Currently Stored Files  Length: 503440

FILES
-----
fileName = testFile1, length = 50344
fileName = testFile2, length = 50344
fileName = testFile3, length = 50344
fileName = testFile4, length = 50344
fileName = testFile5, length = 50344
fileName = testFile6, length = 50344
fileName = testFile7, length = 50344
fileName = testFile8, length = 50344
fileName = testFile9, length = 50344
fileName = testFile10, length = 50344

Elapsed Time = 6,80 seconds for 10 calls (0,6799s/call, fileSize = 50467)


If you are interested we can make intensive test of this sample web service.

(I personally would be interested in such testing.)
I will make all its source code (simple) available on
northwind.codeplex.com.
This sample web service has already MS Access/VBA callable wrapper ActiveX
DLLs.

Thank you.

--
Shamil

P.S. Here is how the same web service can be called from MS Access/VBA using
ActiveX DLL wrapper library:

Option Compare Database
Option Explicit

Public Function TestWebServiceAdv()
Dim service As New MSAccessWebService
Const CALLS_QTY As Integer = 10
    Dim startTime As Date
    startTime = Now
    
    '//http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/LoremIpsum.txt (50KB)
    Dim p As String
    p = "c:\temp\LoremIpsum.txt"
    
    Dim fileName As String
    fileName = "testFile"
    Dim fileText As String
    fileText = ReadAllText(p)
    Dim text As String
    Dim i As Integer

    For i = 1 To CALLS_QTY Step 1
        service.StoreFile fileName + CStr(i), fileText
        text = service.GetFile(fileName + CStr(i))
    Next i
    
    Dim endTime As Date
    endTime = Now
    
    text = service.GetWebServiceUsageStatistics()
    Debug.Print text
    
    Dim elapsedTime As Double
    elapsedTime = DateDiff("s", startTime, endTime)
    Debug.Print elapsedTime & " seconds per " & _
           CStr(CALLS_QTY) & " calls"
End Function
                
Private Function ReadAllText(filePath As String) _
   As String
Dim text As String
Dim fn As Integer
Dim fileLen As Long
    fn = FreeFile
    Open filePath For Input As #fn
    fileLen = LOF(fn)
    text = Input(fileLen, fn)
    Close fn
    ReadAllText = text
End Function

One of the test calls results is the following:

Total Web Calls: 20
Total Web Calls Duration: 20 ticks
Total Store File Web Calls: 10
Total Store File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
Total Get File Web Calls: 10
Total Get File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
Total Delete File Web Calls: 0
Total Delete File Web Calls Duration: 0 ticks
Currently Stored Files: 10
Currently Stored Files  Length: 503460

FILES
-----
fileName = testFile1, length = 50346
fileName = testFile2, length = 50346
fileName = testFile3, length = 50346
fileName = testFile4, length = 50346
fileName = testFile5, length = 50346
fileName = testFile6, length = 50346
fileName = testFile7, length = 50346
fileName = testFile8, length = 50346
fileName = testFile9, length = 50346
fileName = testFile10, length = 50346

8 seconds per 10 calls


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Eric Barro
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 5:54 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet

John,

This is a good candidate for a web service. A web service allows you to
expose certain methods to client machines outside the network.

1. Basically in terms of servers you will need a web server and a database
server (one physical server is possible but two are better due to security
issues).
2. The web server exposes the web service application and takes care of
authentication to the database server. The web server is the only one that
is publicly accessible from the outside.

This saves you from having to set up VPN client software on the client
machines and also saves you from having to purchase hardware to run the VPN
on the server side.

Eric


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 6:11 AM
To: VBA
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet

I am looking at doing an application in C# that needs to be able to run on
user systems around the country, but manipulate data in a common location.
IOW employees can be anywhere, running this program on their machine, but
reading / writing data to a central server.

It is a fairly simple application in terms of the data, a hand full of
fairly stable and short list tables that feed combos, and a couple of "log"
kind of tables that document processes.  It would be nice to have access to
a fairly complex directory structure containing data files that need to be
imported by and exported from this program.  Again these files are small,
less than a thousand lines of data, fixed width or CSV.  I am looking at the
files now and the largest appear to be 80K or so.

I am thinking that a VPN tunnel to allow access to the data directories,
which are then mapped to a drive on the local workstation.  Some kind of
data store on the server, perhaps SQL Server Express. 
  A local data store to do the import into, manipulation / cleanup of data,
export back to files on the remote server directory structure.

I am wondering if you guys have experience in setting up this kind of a
server and application to work on such a server.

--
John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com
_______________________________________________





From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Sat Aug 29 15:42:00 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 00:42:00 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <4A997E5B.20909@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>	<A0EE8D558F30475DA302FCEDB2F81D4F@advancedinput.com>	<002101ca28d5$3357af10$9a070d30$@spb.ru>
	<4A997E5B.20909@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <002301ca28e9$2aaf8f40$800eadc0$@spb.ru>

Hi John,

I have got only a reference to MSDN:

"Web Services in Managed Code"
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/xy59yt45.aspx

This MSDN entry and related ones have rather detailed and step by step
introduction into Web Services subject area.

Hamachi vs. Web Services: it depends - for me using Web Services look
quicker (no need to setup IIS and MS SQL for the sample I presented as it
runs on my ASP.NET hosting site - this sample deployed by XCOPY), more
flexible, scalable etc. To set wrapper activeX DLL (assuming all customers'
PC have target .NET Framework installed) is no more than run a .bat file. 

Of course learning how to use/develop Web Services takes some time. But this
learning will pay back very well - guaranteed.

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 11:16 PM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet

Thanks Shamil.

What is missing here is an explanation.

1) What IS a web service?
2) What are the pieces, and what do they do?  I assume that there is a
service and a client?
3) What is this web service doing?
4) Doesn't it seem that ...

getting IIS and SQL Server set up, writing web services, writing a DLL for
the client Access 
database, getting the existing system using the DLL and installing the DLL
on each machine...

doesn't all of that seem much more complicated than installing Hamachi and
mapping a shared 
directory to a drive letter?

Now, having said that, I have a future project which (if you would slow down
and explain just what 
the heck this stuff was) MIGHT be a perfect fit for this technology.  OTOH,
the future project is a 
system that I hope to sell to small drug companies.  Whatever this stuff is
has to be point and 
click installable as software at the client's site.

As I mentioned to Eric, I am listening, but so far I haven't understood a
word of what I am hearing.

Perhaps a reference to some book, or article that explains this stuff step
by step...?

Thanks,

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote:
> Yes, web service would be a good solution here.
> 
> I have made a test web service, which is located here:
> 
> http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx
> 
> 
> You can test it using this code (c#):
> 
> using System;
> 
> namespace WebServiceDirectTestConsole
> {
>     class Program
>     {
>         //
>         // Add ASP.NET 2.0 web service reference:
>         //
> http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx
>         //
>         static void Main(string[] args)
>         {
>             try
>             {
>                 const int CALLS_QTY = 10;
> 
>                 DateTime startTime = DateTime.Now;
> 
>  
> WebServiceDirectTestConsole.FileServiceSample.WebServiceFacade
>                     service = new
> WebServiceDirectTestConsole.FileServiceSample.WebServiceFacade();
>                 
>  
> //http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/LoremIpsum.txt (50KB)
>                 string p = @"c:\temp\LoremIpsum.txt";
>                 string fileName = "testFile";
>                 string fileText = System.IO.File.ReadAllText(p);
>                 string text = null;
> 
>                 for (int i = 1; i <= CALLS_QTY; i++)
>                 {
>                     service.StoreFile(fileName + i.ToString(), fileText);
>                     text = service.GetFile(fileName + i.ToString());
>                 }
> 
>                 text = service.GetWebServiceUsageStatistics();
> 
>                 Console.WriteLine(text);
> 
>                 DateTime endTime = DateTime.Now;
> 
>                 double elapsedTime = ((TimeSpan)(endTime -
> startTime)).TotalSeconds;
> 
>                 Console.WriteLine("Elapsed Time = {0:#0.00} seconds for
{1}
> calls ({2}s/call, fileSize = {3})",
>                     elapsedTime, CALLS_QTY, elapsedTime / CALLS_QTY,
> fileText.Length);
> 
>             }
>             catch (Exception ex)
>             {
>                 Console.WriteLine(ex.Message);
>             }
>         }
>     }
> }
> 
> One of the results of the above test runs is the following:
> 
> Total Web Calls: 20
> Total Web Calls Duration: 20 ticks
> Total Store File Web Calls: 10
> Total Store File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
> Total Get File Web Calls: 10
> Total Get File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
> Total Delete File Web Calls: 0
> Total Delete File Web Calls Duration: 0 ticks
> Currently Stored Files: 10
> Currently Stored Files  Length: 503440
> 
> FILES
> -----
> fileName = testFile1, length = 50344
> fileName = testFile2, length = 50344
> fileName = testFile3, length = 50344
> fileName = testFile4, length = 50344
> fileName = testFile5, length = 50344
> fileName = testFile6, length = 50344
> fileName = testFile7, length = 50344
> fileName = testFile8, length = 50344
> fileName = testFile9, length = 50344
> fileName = testFile10, length = 50344
> 
> Elapsed Time = 6,80 seconds for 10 calls (0,6799s/call, fileSize = 50467)
> 
> 
> If you are interested we can make intensive test of this sample web
service.
> 
> (I personally would be interested in such testing.)
> I will make all its source code (simple) available on
> northwind.codeplex.com.
> This sample web service has already MS Access/VBA callable wrapper ActiveX
> DLLs.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> --
> Shamil
> 
> P.S. Here is how the same web service can be called from MS Access/VBA
using
> ActiveX DLL wrapper library:
> 
> Option Compare Database
> Option Explicit
> 
> Public Function TestWebServiceAdv()
> Dim service As New MSAccessWebService
> Const CALLS_QTY As Integer = 10
>     Dim startTime As Date
>     startTime = Now
>     
>     '//http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/LoremIpsum.txt (50KB)
>     Dim p As String
>     p = "c:\temp\LoremIpsum.txt"
>     
>     Dim fileName As String
>     fileName = "testFile"
>     Dim fileText As String
>     fileText = ReadAllText(p)
>     Dim text As String
>     Dim i As Integer
> 
>     For i = 1 To CALLS_QTY Step 1
>         service.StoreFile fileName + CStr(i), fileText
>         text = service.GetFile(fileName + CStr(i))
>     Next i
>     
>     Dim endTime As Date
>     endTime = Now
>     
>     text = service.GetWebServiceUsageStatistics()
>     Debug.Print text
>     
>     Dim elapsedTime As Double
>     elapsedTime = DateDiff("s", startTime, endTime)
>     Debug.Print elapsedTime & " seconds per " & _
>            CStr(CALLS_QTY) & " calls"
> End Function
>                 
> Private Function ReadAllText(filePath As String) _
>    As String
> Dim text As String
> Dim fn As Integer
> Dim fileLen As Long
>     fn = FreeFile
>     Open filePath For Input As #fn
>     fileLen = LOF(fn)
>     text = Input(fileLen, fn)
>     Close fn
>     ReadAllText = text
> End Function
> 
> One of the test calls results is the following:
> 
> Total Web Calls: 20
> Total Web Calls Duration: 20 ticks
> Total Store File Web Calls: 10
> Total Store File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
> Total Get File Web Calls: 10
> Total Get File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
> Total Delete File Web Calls: 0
> Total Delete File Web Calls Duration: 0 ticks
> Currently Stored Files: 10
> Currently Stored Files  Length: 503460
> 
> FILES
> -----
> fileName = testFile1, length = 50346
> fileName = testFile2, length = 50346
> fileName = testFile3, length = 50346
> fileName = testFile4, length = 50346
> fileName = testFile5, length = 50346
> fileName = testFile6, length = 50346
> fileName = testFile7, length = 50346
> fileName = testFile8, length = 50346
> fileName = testFile9, length = 50346
> fileName = testFile10, length = 50346
> 
> 8 seconds per 10 calls
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Eric Barro
> Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 5:54 PM
> To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
> 
> John,
> 
> This is a good candidate for a web service. A web service allows you to
> expose certain methods to client machines outside the network.
> 
> 1. Basically in terms of servers you will need a web server and a database
> server (one physical server is possible but two are better due to security
> issues).
> 2. The web server exposes the web service application and takes care of
> authentication to the database server. The web server is the only one that
> is publicly accessible from the outside.
> 
> This saves you from having to set up VPN client software on the client
> machines and also saves you from having to purchase hardware to run the
VPN
> on the server side.
> 
> Eric
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
> Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 6:11 AM
> To: VBA
> Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
> 
> I am looking at doing an application in C# that needs to be able to run on
> user systems around the country, but manipulate data in a common location.
> IOW employees can be anywhere, running this program on their machine, but
> reading / writing data to a central server.
> 
> It is a fairly simple application in terms of the data, a hand full of
> fairly stable and short list tables that feed combos, and a couple of
"log"
> kind of tables that document processes.  It would be nice to have access
to
> a fairly complex directory structure containing data files that need to be
> imported by and exported from this program.  Again these files are small,
> less than a thousand lines of data, fixed width or CSV.  I am looking at
the
> files now and the largest appear to be 80K or so.
> 
> I am thinking that a VPN tunnel to allow access to the data directories,
> which are then mapped to a drive on the local workstation.  Some kind of
> data store on the server, perhaps SQL Server Express. 
>   A local data store to do the import into, manipulation / cleanup of
data,
> export back to files on the remote server directory structure.
> 
> I am wondering if you guys have experience in setting up this kind of a
> server and application to work on such a server.
> 
> --
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com
> _______________________________________________
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 
_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4379 (20090829) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru





From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Sat Aug 29 15:51:10 2009
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 06:51:10 +1000
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <4A997E5B.20909@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>,
	<002101ca28d5$3357af10$9a070d30$@spb.ru>,
	<4A997E5B.20909@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <4A9994BE.30130.138FC586@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

Strictly speaking,

http://www.webopedia.com/DidYouKnow/Computer_Science/2005/web_services.asp

"The term Web service describes a standardized way of integrating Web-based applications 
using the XML, SOAP, WSDL and UDDI open standards over an Internet protocol 
backbone."

http://www.w3schools.com/webservices/ws_intro.asp
What are Web Services?

    * Web services are application components
    * Web services communicate using open protocols
    * Web services are self-contained and self-describing
    * Web services can be discovered using UDDI
    * Web services can be used by other applications
    * XML is the basis for Web services

This latter link is the start of a long tutorial on web services.

Based on your original problem, this is not really what you want at all.  You just want some 
way to transfer data over the internet which is not exposed to all and sundry.

-- 
Stuart


On 29 Aug 2009 at 15:15, jwcolby wrote:

> Thanks Shamil.
> 
> What is missing here is an explanation.
> 
> 1) What IS a web service?
> 2) What are the pieces, and what do they do?  I assume that there is a service and a client?
> 3) What is this web service doing?
> 4) Doesn't it seem that ...
> 



From ebarro at verizon.net  Fri Aug 28 14:52:40 2009
From: ebarro at verizon.net (Eric Barro)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 12:52:40 -0700
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <4A97FB07.9090701@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>
	<A0EE8D558F30475DA302FCEDB2F81D4F@advancedinput.com>
	<4A97FB07.9090701@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <FEEB2721B87C4D879A17B7B130414076@advancedinput.com>

John,

A web service doesn't necessarily need a web browser interface. Any
application can use web services for as long as that application can connect
to the internet.

You are correct that you would have to learn a whole new paradigm but only
in so far as how you reference the web service in your application and of
course creating the web service itself. VS.NET already has template code to
get you started in the right direction. I can also help you get started. As
far as multi-user issues is concerned it's a non-issue because it's handled
behind the scenes by SQL server.

As far as SQL server is concerned, it's just another connection
requesting/updating some data.

I've created web services that some of the managers at work use with Excel
to load up a worksheet with data from a vendor-supplied MRP system. They
just click a button and VBA calls the event that handles the data pull via
the web service. I've also created web services used in a browser-based
application where the user can upload an image file (JPG) to a remote SQL
server where it is saved as a BLOB (binary object) and then displays the
uploaded image on the browser after it is successfully uploaded (again
invoking one of the exposed methods of the web service that specifically
handles that functionality).

The thing with VPN connectivity, FTP, firewalls and the like is that you
have a level of complexity that you have to deal with on the client side to
get it to work correctly and if something goes wrong you have several places
that you have to look into to determine what could have caused the problem.

With the web services approach you can narrow down the troubleshooting.

Here's a sample reference for a web service on my site --
http://www.ebarro.com/webservices/EBarroAPI.asmx

Eric

-----Original Message-----
From: jwcolby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] 
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 8:43 AM
To: ebarro at verizon.net; Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related
programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet

Eric,

Thanks for the response.  I assume you are discussing a "browser based
application"?

If so there are a couple of issues that I see.
1) I would have to learn a whole new paradigm from scratch.
2) Multi-user issues.

The client is a SOHO with "employees" consisting mostly of family members,
who would work from their homes.  I understand the "setup" issues but at
least for now that would be a very small number of machines.  I just talked
to the client and, for example, he has two production scanners, one in CT
and the other in Nashville.  It would be nice for each scanner to drop the
scanned files (CSV files) into a common directory structure in the office in
CT.  The program would then pull the CSVs across the internet into the local
instance wherever that might be, import it into a local data store, process
the data, then export the tables back out into a fixed width file back in
the same server (different path) that the CSV came from.

You get the picture.  The thing that might make this work is that the files
are tiny, 80 kb is the biggest I have seen so far.  I am actually looking at
installing Hamachi on each of his "satellite offices" PCs, and building a
virtual network around that Hamachi client.

I don't contend that this solution works for a huge system but not every
system is huge!  And if it gets huge then the money will be there to support
hardware VPNs etc.  Or even a port to a web service at that point.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Eric Barro wrote:
> John,
> 
> This is a good candidate for a web service. A web service allows you 
> to expose certain methods to client machines outside the network.
> 
> 1. Basically in terms of servers you will need a web server and a 
> database server (one physical server is possible but two are better 
> due to security issues).
> 2. The web server exposes the web service application and takes care 
> of authentication to the database server. The web server is the only 
> one that is publicly accessible from the outside.
> 
> This saves you from having to set up VPN client software on the client 
> machines and also saves you from having to purchase hardware to run 
> the VPN on the server side.
> 
> Eric



From Gustav at cactus.dk  Fri Aug 28 14:43:16 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 21:43:16 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
Message-ID: <sa984f91.013@cactus.dk>

Hi John

Yes, much better. 
But I wonder why CPU power should be the bottleneck - it certainly should be the upload speed to the Internet. Could it be that this Hamagochi thing is a CPU hog? For an FTP transfer, even a Pentium II could feed files at that speed at little CPU usage ...

/gustav

>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-08-2009 21:29 >>>
Gustav,

I created a shared directory on my "new" Windows 2008 server and copied the data file directory 
structure to there.  I then remoted in to the client's machine, mapped that new directory on my 
server back to my client's machine drive Y.  Copied my latest version of the FE to his machine and 
ran.

I am therefore now running the application on his server where I do dev work for him when not 
developing on my machine in my office.  I have mapped a directory on my server over Hamachi to Y: on 
that server in his office.  Running the same code:

Time to open the file in Notepad 2156 Milliseconds
Time to open the file in Notepad 500 Milliseconds
Time to open the file in Notepad 594 Milliseconds

Import From File took 5000 Milliseconds
Cleanup of raw data took 3750 Milliseconds
Import From File took 5016 Milliseconds
Cleanup of raw data took 3390 Milliseconds
Import From File took 4531 Milliseconds
Cleanup of raw data took 9031 Milliseconds
Import From File took 4547 Milliseconds
Cleanup of raw data took 3094 Milliseconds

As you can see, my times for the import process is now MUCH faster.  The file server is now hosted 
on my quad core (2 ghz real clock AMD) with 8 gigs of ram running Windows 2008.  BTW My upload speed 
(out of my office to the internet) is not particularly blazing at .5 mbit / second.

I have to conclude that the bottleneck is the server processing speed.  When I was running the app 
on my laptop accessing data at his office, the server was a single core Pentium III 500 mhz machine 
(just checked) running Windows XP SP3 and 256 MB of ram.

Obviously having a new server at his end will help!

I think these numbers are suddenly very usable.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com 


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi John
> 
> That seems a bit slow to me but when it is set up and running and the price is right it should be fine - I mean, 73 seconds, should it matter?
> 
> /gustav
> 
> 
>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 28-08-2009 19:43 >>>
> Gustav,
> 
> I have Hamachi already in place on the client's server as well as my system.  I routinely remote 
> desktop in to his machine already.  I had set up the path to the data files (in / out) as a SysVar 
> and so I mapped his remote database directory (on his server) to y: on my dev machine here at my 
> office and changed my sysvar to point to the new location.
> 
> I then ran the existing Access application.  I set up my timer class to time the import, which uses 
> a simple docmd.transfertext to pull the data from the CSV file into a first stage processing table.
> 
> Looking at five different runs, the time to import 835 records from a CSV file into a local table, 
> across the internet using Hamachi is
> 
> Import From File took 72915 Milliseconds
> Cleanup of raw data took 2354 Milliseconds
> Import From File took 59250 Milliseconds
> Cleanup of raw data took 4319 Milliseconds
> Import From File took 23369 Milliseconds
> Cleanup of raw data took 3307 Milliseconds
> Import From File took 23354 Milliseconds
> Cleanup of raw data took 3447 Milliseconds
> Import From File took 23353 Milliseconds
> Cleanup of raw data took 3181 Milliseconds
> 
> I had done a couple of runs before I set up the timer and the times there were approximately 24 
> seconds as well.  So the "normal" time is around 24 seconds, but it can be quite lengthy as you can 
> see, 73 seconds in the worst case so far.
> 
> What was going on during those longer time imports is unknown.  The server is being used to store 
> these scan files as well as process them.  OTOH the server is also a 750 mhz pentium machine, pretty 
> slow as servers go.  We have a new server ready to go online.
> 
> And of course this assumes fast internet at both ends.
> 
> I also built a button to allow them to open the source CSV files in notepad.  That only took
> 
> Time to open the file in Notepad 4930 Milliseconds
> Time to open the file in Notepad 4290 Milliseconds
> Time to open the file in Notepad 2855 Milliseconds
> Time to open the file in Notepad 4274 Milliseconds
> 
> So obviously the import process itself is taking a fair amount of time.
> 
> Anyway... I would guess that for a small company like this, a Hamachi VPN to a central server is 
> going to work quite well.  Low cost, reasonably fast, and easy to set up.
> 
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com 



From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Sat Aug 29 20:08:53 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 21:08:53 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <4A9994BE.30130.138FC586@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>,
	<002101ca28d5$3357af10$9a070d30$@spb.ru>,
	<4A997E5B.20909@colbyconsulting.com>
	<4A9994BE.30130.138FC586@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
Message-ID: <4A99D125.1080300@colbyconsulting.com>

 >You just want some way to transfer data over the internet which is not exposed to all and sundry.

Uhhh yep.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Stuart McLachlan wrote:
> Strictly speaking,
> 
> http://www.webopedia.com/DidYouKnow/Computer_Science/2005/web_services.asp
> 
> "The term Web service describes a standardized way of integrating Web-based applications 
> using the XML, SOAP, WSDL and UDDI open standards over an Internet protocol 
> backbone."
> 
> http://www.w3schools.com/webservices/ws_intro.asp
> What are Web Services?
> 
>     * Web services are application components
>     * Web services communicate using open protocols
>     * Web services are self-contained and self-describing
>     * Web services can be discovered using UDDI
>     * Web services can be used by other applications
>     * XML is the basis for Web services
> 
> This latter link is the start of a long tutorial on web services.
> 
> Based on your original problem, this is not really what you want at all.  You just want some 
> way to transfer data over the internet which is not exposed to all and sundry.
> 


From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Sat Aug 29 20:21:21 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 21:21:21 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <002301ca28e9$2aaf8f40$800eadc0$@spb.ru>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>	<A0EE8D558F30475DA302FCEDB2F81D4F@advancedinput.com>	<002101ca28d5$3357af10$9a070d30$@spb.ru>	<4A997E5B.20909@colbyconsulting.com>
	<002301ca28e9$2aaf8f40$800eadc0$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <4A99D411.7000207@colbyconsulting.com>

http://www.hanselman.com/blog/BreakingAllTheRulesWithWCF.aspx

Read all the comments at the bottom.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote:
> Hi John,
> 
> I have got only a reference to MSDN:
> 
> "Web Services in Managed Code"
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/xy59yt45.aspx
> 
> This MSDN entry and related ones have rather detailed and step by step
> introduction into Web Services subject area.
> 
> Hamachi vs. Web Services: it depends - for me using Web Services look
> quicker (no need to setup IIS and MS SQL for the sample I presented as it
> runs on my ASP.NET hosting site - this sample deployed by XCOPY), more
> flexible, scalable etc. To set wrapper activeX DLL (assuming all customers'
> PC have target .NET Framework installed) is no more than run a .bat file. 
> 
> Of course learning how to use/develop Web Services takes some time. But this
> learning will pay back very well - guaranteed.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> --
> Shamil
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
> Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 11:16 PM
> To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
> 
> Thanks Shamil.
> 
> What is missing here is an explanation.
> 
> 1) What IS a web service?
> 2) What are the pieces, and what do they do?  I assume that there is a
> service and a client?
> 3) What is this web service doing?
> 4) Doesn't it seem that ...
> 
> getting IIS and SQL Server set up, writing web services, writing a DLL for
> the client Access 
> database, getting the existing system using the DLL and installing the DLL
> on each machine...
> 
> doesn't all of that seem much more complicated than installing Hamachi and
> mapping a shared 
> directory to a drive letter?
> 
> Now, having said that, I have a future project which (if you would slow down
> and explain just what 
> the heck this stuff was) MIGHT be a perfect fit for this technology.  OTOH,
> the future project is a 
> system that I hope to sell to small drug companies.  Whatever this stuff is
> has to be point and 
> click installable as software at the client's site.
> 
> As I mentioned to Eric, I am listening, but so far I haven't understood a
> word of what I am hearing.
> 
> Perhaps a reference to some book, or article that explains this stuff step
> by step...?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com
> 
> 
> Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote:
>> Yes, web service would be a good solution here.
>>
>> I have made a test web service, which is located here:
>>
>> http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx
>>
>>
>> You can test it using this code (c#):
>>
>> using System;
>>
>> namespace WebServiceDirectTestConsole
>> {
>>     class Program
>>     {
>>         //
>>         // Add ASP.NET 2.0 web service reference:
>>         //
>> http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx
>>         //
>>         static void Main(string[] args)
>>         {
>>             try
>>             {
>>                 const int CALLS_QTY = 10;
>>
>>                 DateTime startTime = DateTime.Now;
>>
>>  
>> WebServiceDirectTestConsole.FileServiceSample.WebServiceFacade
>>                     service = new
>> WebServiceDirectTestConsole.FileServiceSample.WebServiceFacade();
>>                 
>>  
>> //http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/LoremIpsum.txt (50KB)
>>                 string p = @"c:\temp\LoremIpsum.txt";
>>                 string fileName = "testFile";
>>                 string fileText = System.IO.File.ReadAllText(p);
>>                 string text = null;
>>
>>                 for (int i = 1; i <= CALLS_QTY; i++)
>>                 {
>>                     service.StoreFile(fileName + i.ToString(), fileText);
>>                     text = service.GetFile(fileName + i.ToString());
>>                 }
>>
>>                 text = service.GetWebServiceUsageStatistics();
>>
>>                 Console.WriteLine(text);
>>
>>                 DateTime endTime = DateTime.Now;
>>
>>                 double elapsedTime = ((TimeSpan)(endTime -
>> startTime)).TotalSeconds;
>>
>>                 Console.WriteLine("Elapsed Time = {0:#0.00} seconds for
> {1}
>> calls ({2}s/call, fileSize = {3})",
>>                     elapsedTime, CALLS_QTY, elapsedTime / CALLS_QTY,
>> fileText.Length);
>>
>>             }
>>             catch (Exception ex)
>>             {
>>                 Console.WriteLine(ex.Message);
>>             }
>>         }
>>     }
>> }
>>
>> One of the results of the above test runs is the following:
>>
>> Total Web Calls: 20
>> Total Web Calls Duration: 20 ticks
>> Total Store File Web Calls: 10
>> Total Store File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
>> Total Get File Web Calls: 10
>> Total Get File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
>> Total Delete File Web Calls: 0
>> Total Delete File Web Calls Duration: 0 ticks
>> Currently Stored Files: 10
>> Currently Stored Files  Length: 503440
>>
>> FILES
>> -----
>> fileName = testFile1, length = 50344
>> fileName = testFile2, length = 50344
>> fileName = testFile3, length = 50344
>> fileName = testFile4, length = 50344
>> fileName = testFile5, length = 50344
>> fileName = testFile6, length = 50344
>> fileName = testFile7, length = 50344
>> fileName = testFile8, length = 50344
>> fileName = testFile9, length = 50344
>> fileName = testFile10, length = 50344
>>
>> Elapsed Time = 6,80 seconds for 10 calls (0,6799s/call, fileSize = 50467)
>>
>>
>> If you are interested we can make intensive test of this sample web
> service.
>> (I personally would be interested in such testing.)
>> I will make all its source code (simple) available on
>> northwind.codeplex.com.
>> This sample web service has already MS Access/VBA callable wrapper ActiveX
>> DLLs.
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> --
>> Shamil
>>
>> P.S. Here is how the same web service can be called from MS Access/VBA
> using
>> ActiveX DLL wrapper library:
>>
>> Option Compare Database
>> Option Explicit
>>
>> Public Function TestWebServiceAdv()
>> Dim service As New MSAccessWebService
>> Const CALLS_QTY As Integer = 10
>>     Dim startTime As Date
>>     startTime = Now
>>     
>>     '//http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/LoremIpsum.txt (50KB)
>>     Dim p As String
>>     p = "c:\temp\LoremIpsum.txt"
>>     
>>     Dim fileName As String
>>     fileName = "testFile"
>>     Dim fileText As String
>>     fileText = ReadAllText(p)
>>     Dim text As String
>>     Dim i As Integer
>>
>>     For i = 1 To CALLS_QTY Step 1
>>         service.StoreFile fileName + CStr(i), fileText
>>         text = service.GetFile(fileName + CStr(i))
>>     Next i
>>     
>>     Dim endTime As Date
>>     endTime = Now
>>     
>>     text = service.GetWebServiceUsageStatistics()
>>     Debug.Print text
>>     
>>     Dim elapsedTime As Double
>>     elapsedTime = DateDiff("s", startTime, endTime)
>>     Debug.Print elapsedTime & " seconds per " & _
>>            CStr(CALLS_QTY) & " calls"
>> End Function
>>                 
>> Private Function ReadAllText(filePath As String) _
>>    As String
>> Dim text As String
>> Dim fn As Integer
>> Dim fileLen As Long
>>     fn = FreeFile
>>     Open filePath For Input As #fn
>>     fileLen = LOF(fn)
>>     text = Input(fileLen, fn)
>>     Close fn
>>     ReadAllText = text
>> End Function
>>
>> One of the test calls results is the following:
>>
>> Total Web Calls: 20
>> Total Web Calls Duration: 20 ticks
>> Total Store File Web Calls: 10
>> Total Store File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
>> Total Get File Web Calls: 10
>> Total Get File Web Calls Duration: 10 ticks
>> Total Delete File Web Calls: 0
>> Total Delete File Web Calls Duration: 0 ticks
>> Currently Stored Files: 10
>> Currently Stored Files  Length: 503460
>>
>> FILES
>> -----
>> fileName = testFile1, length = 50346
>> fileName = testFile2, length = 50346
>> fileName = testFile3, length = 50346
>> fileName = testFile4, length = 50346
>> fileName = testFile5, length = 50346
>> fileName = testFile6, length = 50346
>> fileName = testFile7, length = 50346
>> fileName = testFile8, length = 50346
>> fileName = testFile9, length = 50346
>> fileName = testFile10, length = 50346
>>
>> 8 seconds per 10 calls
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Eric Barro
>> Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 5:54 PM
>> To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
>> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
>>
>> John,
>>
>> This is a good candidate for a web service. A web service allows you to
>> expose certain methods to client machines outside the network.
>>
>> 1. Basically in terms of servers you will need a web server and a database
>> server (one physical server is possible but two are better due to security
>> issues).
>> 2. The web server exposes the web service application and takes care of
>> authentication to the database server. The web server is the only one that
>> is publicly accessible from the outside.
>>
>> This saves you from having to set up VPN client software on the client
>> machines and also saves you from having to purchase hardware to run the
> VPN
>> on the server side.
>>
>> Eric
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
>> Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 6:11 AM
>> To: VBA
>> Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
>>
>> I am looking at doing an application in C# that needs to be able to run on
>> user systems around the country, but manipulate data in a common location.
>> IOW employees can be anywhere, running this program on their machine, but
>> reading / writing data to a central server.
>>
>> It is a fairly simple application in terms of the data, a hand full of
>> fairly stable and short list tables that feed combos, and a couple of
> "log"
>> kind of tables that document processes.  It would be nice to have access
> to
>> a fairly complex directory structure containing data files that need to be
>> imported by and exported from this program.  Again these files are small,
>> less than a thousand lines of data, fixed width or CSV.  I am looking at
> the
>> files now and the largest appear to be 80K or so.
>>
>> I am thinking that a VPN tunnel to allow access to the data directories,
>> which are then mapped to a drive on the local workstation.  Some kind of
>> data store on the server, perhaps SQL Server Express. 
>>   A local data store to do the import into, manipulation / cleanup of
> data,
>> export back to files on the remote server directory structure.
>>
>> I am wondering if you guys have experience in setting up this kind of a
>> server and application to work on such a server.
>>
>> --
>> John W. Colby
>> www.ColbyConsulting.com
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> dba-VB mailing list
>> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
>> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 
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> database 4379 (20090829) __________
> 
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
> 
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> 
> _______________________________________________
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> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 


From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Sun Aug 30 02:38:28 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 11:38:28 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <4A99D411.7000207@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>	<A0EE8D558F30475DA302FCEDB2F81D4F@advancedinput.com>	<002101ca28d5$3357af10$9a070d30$@spb.ru>	<4A997E5B.20909@colbyconsulting.com>	<002301ca28e9$2aaf8f40$800eadc0$@spb.ru>
	<4A99D411.7000207@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <002d01ca2944$df79b210$9e6d1630$@spb.ru>

Hi John,

I did read comments from the ref you quoted here - they are a usual "junk" -
I mean real developers who use MS software do not waste time on writing
comments how bad this MS software is :) I can assure you (as many other
developers here) it's not that bad as you can find reading all that "junk
comments".

BTW, I liked this comment, which I classify as very helpful, and coming from
experienced developer (as I also am BTW :)O:

<<<<<<<<<<
Ben Kloosterman, 21 June 2009, 20:38:34 (Pacific Standard Time, UTC-08:00)

The problem is not with WCF (or Axis) but with people who choose overly
complicated scenarios. WCF is far superior to Axis though because Services
framework allow things people use them. 

eg 
- Security 95% of the time no transport security/encryption is sufficient.
- Use custom headers dont fudge it like the article , this method is very
common .
- Use complicated types , inheritcance , interfaces , collections etc ..
KISS and use the DTO pattern. ( DOnt pollute your business domain with the
need to tranport it)

The big advantage REST has is you cant do the fancy things but everything
you can do with REST you can do with WCF and keep it or even more simple. 

Ben
>>>>>>>>>>>

And BTW, my current proposal is to use SOAP (ASP.NET 2.0) Web Services for
starters - they are easier to start with = you can create such Web Services
within VS2008. Later on you can convert them to WCF/REST web services -
you'll just need to change interface/fa?ade in most of the cases.

And a sample Web Service I created here is exactly a SOAP web service:

http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx

You can find comments on its interface in P.S. of this message. And you can
consume this web service using sample code I provided in my previous
postings within this thread. (All the C# code for this Web Service including
comments is about 270+ code lines long - and that's all you have to write -
no need to code manually .wsdl etc. )

Some of my experience with Web Services:

1) One of my overseas customers (WA) did use web service running on my
hosting site (Moscow, Russia, and it runs within common application pool)
for several months. And this web service was queried dozen times within a
second from his programs running on 5+ computers from his LAN there. Result:
no any major trouble at all.

2) Another customer does use web service developed here to synchronize
two-way "field-force automation" local MS SQL Express databases with central
MS SQL database running behind large ASP.NET application. No problem.

Etc.

Recap: Stop reading "junk comments", start acting.

Thank you.

--
Shamil

P.S. Sample web service interface (Note: this sample web service was made in
one go, without any "heavy load" on brain cells, within a couple of hours
including several times of (XCOPY) deployment on ASP.NET hosting site,
testing etc. - I mean with some more work it can be done 100% "bullet-proof"
but even now it should be strong enough - you can test it):

/// <summary>
/// Test method - Hello, World!
/// </summary>
/// <returns>String 'Hello MS Access World!'</returns>
[WebMethod]
public string HelloWorld()

/// <summary>
/// Stores given file in Web service memory
/// </summary>
/// <param name="fileName">File name</param>
/// <param name="fileText">File text</param>
/// <returns>Stored file length if file stored successfully,
/// otherwise throws ApplicationException </returns>
/// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter is null or
empty</exception>
/// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileText parameter is null or
empty</exception>
/// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter's value length
exceeds 255 chars</exception>
/// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileText parameter's value length
exceeds 100KB chars</exception>
/// <remarks>
/// If the total length of stored files exceed 3MB then web service deletes
/// stored files until there will be enough space to store a new file.
/// </remarks> 
[WebMethod]
public int StoreFile(string fileName, string fileText)

/// <summary>
/// Gets stored on web service side file
/// </summary>
/// <param name="fileName">File name</param>
/// <returns>Stored file text if file retrieved successfully,
/// otherwise throws ApplicationException </returns>
/// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter is null or
empty</exception>
/// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter's value length
exceeds 255 chars</exception>
/// <exception cref="ApplicationException">{fileName} - file not
found</exception>
[WebMethod]
public string GetFile(string fileName)

/// <summary>
/// Delets stored on web service side file
/// </summary>
/// <param name="fileName">File name</param>
/// <returns>True if file deleted successfully,
/// otherwise throws ApplicationException </returns>
/// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter is null or
empty</exception>
/// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter's value length
exceeds 255 chars</exception>
/// <exception cref="ApplicationException">{fileName} - file not
found</exception>
[WebMethod]
public bool DeleteFile(string fileName)

/// <summary>
/// Gets Web Service usage statistics
/// </summary>
/// <returns></returns>
[WebMethod] 
public string GetWebServiceUsageStatistics()

/// <summary>
/// Gets 'Lorem Ipsum...' text
/// </summary>
/// <param name="amount">Speficies amount of <paramref name="what"
parameter/></param>
/// <param name="what">Defines generation units: words, paras, bytes,
lists</param>
/// <returns></returns>
[WebMethod] 
public string GetLoremIpsumText(long amount, string what)


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 5:21 AM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet

http://www.hanselman.com/blog/BreakingAllTheRulesWithWCF.aspx

Read all the comments at the bottom.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com

<<< snip>>>
 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4380 (20090829) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 




From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Sun Aug 30 10:20:46 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 11:20:46 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <002d01ca2944$df79b210$9e6d1630$@spb.ru>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>	<A0EE8D558F30475DA302FCEDB2F81D4F@advancedinput.com>	<002101ca28d5$3357af10$9a070d30$@spb.ru>	<4A997E5B.20909@colbyconsulting.com>	<002301ca28e9$2aaf8f40$800eadc0$@spb.ru>	<4A99D411.7000207@colbyconsulting.com>
	<002d01ca2944$df79b210$9e6d1630$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <4A9A98CE.2090303@colbyconsulting.com>

Shamil,

I understand that only people who have problems write comments about the problems they have.  I also 
understand that if someone uses VS.Net to write both ends of the channel then the probability of 
problems drops dramatically.

I would not characterize such comments a "junk" however, I believe that such problems are very real, 
particularly when you are dealing with disparate technologies on either end.  The article itself was 
found in the C# start page, and he was having problems using .Net to try to talk to a service 
created in some other technology (from the little I actually understood).

What I found daunting was the gobbledegook of terms and technologies being discussed.  It certainly 
appeared to me that the majority of these "junk" comments were .Net developers trying to use .Net to 
subscribe (if that is the correct phrase) to services that were created in some other technology. 
Who had to do so for business reasons, in their work.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote:
> Hi John,
> 
> I did read comments from the ref you quoted here - they are a usual "junk" -
> I mean real developers who use MS software do not waste time on writing
> comments how bad this MS software is :) I can assure you (as many other
> developers here) it's not that bad as you can find reading all that "junk
> comments".
> 
> BTW, I liked this comment, which I classify as very helpful, and coming from
> experienced developer (as I also am BTW :)O:
> 
> <<<<<<<<<<
> Ben Kloosterman, 21 June 2009, 20:38:34 (Pacific Standard Time, UTC-08:00)
> 
> The problem is not with WCF (or Axis) but with people who choose overly
> complicated scenarios. WCF is far superior to Axis though because Services
> framework allow things people use them. 
> 
> eg 
> - Security 95% of the time no transport security/encryption is sufficient.
> - Use custom headers dont fudge it like the article , this method is very
> common .
> - Use complicated types , inheritcance , interfaces , collections etc ..
> KISS and use the DTO pattern. ( DOnt pollute your business domain with the
> need to tranport it)
> 
> The big advantage REST has is you cant do the fancy things but everything
> you can do with REST you can do with WCF and keep it or even more simple. 
> 
> Ben
> 
> And BTW, my current proposal is to use SOAP (ASP.NET 2.0) Web Services for
> starters - they are easier to start with = you can create such Web Services
> within VS2008. Later on you can convert them to WCF/REST web services -
> you'll just need to change interface/fa?ade in most of the cases.
> 
> And a sample Web Service I created here is exactly a SOAP web service:
> 
> http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx
> 
> You can find comments on its interface in P.S. of this message. And you can
> consume this web service using sample code I provided in my previous
> postings within this thread. (All the C# code for this Web Service including
> comments is about 270+ code lines long - and that's all you have to write -
> no need to code manually .wsdl etc. )
> 
> Some of my experience with Web Services:
> 
> 1) One of my overseas customers (WA) did use web service running on my
> hosting site (Moscow, Russia, and it runs within common application pool)
> for several months. And this web service was queried dozen times within a
> second from his programs running on 5+ computers from his LAN there. Result:
> no any major trouble at all.
> 
> 2) Another customer does use web service developed here to synchronize
> two-way "field-force automation" local MS SQL Express databases with central
> MS SQL database running behind large ASP.NET application. No problem.
> 
> Etc.
> 
> Recap: Stop reading "junk comments", start acting.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> --
> Shamil
> 
> P.S. Sample web service interface (Note: this sample web service was made in
> one go, without any "heavy load" on brain cells, within a couple of hours
> including several times of (XCOPY) deployment on ASP.NET hosting site,
> testing etc. - I mean with some more work it can be done 100% "bullet-proof"
> but even now it should be strong enough - you can test it):
> 
> /// <summary>
> /// Test method - Hello, World!
> /// </summary>
> /// <returns>String 'Hello MS Access World!'</returns>
> [WebMethod]
> public string HelloWorld()
> 
> /// <summary>
> /// Stores given file in Web service memory
> /// </summary>
> /// <param name="fileName">File name</param>
> /// <param name="fileText">File text</param>
> /// <returns>Stored file length if file stored successfully,
> /// otherwise throws ApplicationException </returns>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter is null or
> empty</exception>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileText parameter is null or
> empty</exception>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter's value length
> exceeds 255 chars</exception>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileText parameter's value length
> exceeds 100KB chars</exception>
> /// <remarks>
> /// If the total length of stored files exceed 3MB then web service deletes
> /// stored files until there will be enough space to store a new file.
> /// </remarks> 
> [WebMethod]
> public int StoreFile(string fileName, string fileText)
> 
> /// <summary>
> /// Gets stored on web service side file
> /// </summary>
> /// <param name="fileName">File name</param>
> /// <returns>Stored file text if file retrieved successfully,
> /// otherwise throws ApplicationException </returns>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter is null or
> empty</exception>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter's value length
> exceeds 255 chars</exception>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">{fileName} - file not
> found</exception>
> [WebMethod]
> public string GetFile(string fileName)
> 
> /// <summary>
> /// Delets stored on web service side file
> /// </summary>
> /// <param name="fileName">File name</param>
> /// <returns>True if file deleted successfully,
> /// otherwise throws ApplicationException </returns>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter is null or
> empty</exception>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter's value length
> exceeds 255 chars</exception>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">{fileName} - file not
> found</exception>
> [WebMethod]
> public bool DeleteFile(string fileName)
> 
> /// <summary>
> /// Gets Web Service usage statistics
> /// </summary>
> /// <returns></returns>
> [WebMethod] 
> public string GetWebServiceUsageStatistics()
> 
> /// <summary>
> /// Gets 'Lorem Ipsum...' text
> /// </summary>
> /// <param name="amount">Speficies amount of <paramref name="what"
> parameter/></param>
> /// <param name="what">Defines generation units: words, paras, bytes,
> lists</param>
> /// <returns></returns>
> [WebMethod] 
> public string GetLoremIpsumText(long amount, string what)
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 5:21 AM
> To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
> 
> http://www.hanselman.com/blog/BreakingAllTheRulesWithWCF.aspx
> 
> Read all the comments at the bottom.
> 
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com
> 
> <<< snip>>>
>  
> 
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
> database 4380 (20090829) __________
> 
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
> 
> http://www.esetnod32.ru
>  
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 


From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Sun Aug 30 13:13:17 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 22:13:17 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <4A9A98CE.2090303@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>	<A0EE8D558F30475DA302FCEDB2F81D4F@advancedinput.com>	<002101ca28d5$3357af10$9a070d30$@spb.ru>	<4A997E5B.20909@colbyconsulting.com>	<002301ca28e9$2aaf8f40$800eadc0$@spb.ru>	<4A99D411.7000207@colbyconsulting.com>	<002d01ca2944$df79b210$9e6d1630$@spb.ru>
	<4A9A98CE.2090303@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <003a01ca299d$8d97caa0$a8c75fe0$@spb.ru>

Hi John,

OK.

<<<
What I found daunting was the gobbledegook of terms and technologies being
discussed.
>>>
John, if I'd tell you - do not bother about this "gobbledegook" now would
you accept my advice?
I mean you do not need to know all that stuff until you'll really need it -
you can just start developing and releasing SOAP Web Services - it's not
that complicated. 

I do share Ben Kloosterman's opinion: "The problem is not with WCF (or Axis)
(or SOAP) but with people who choose overly complicated scenarios"...

I called comments "junk" because most of them are not constructive, and they
do not help, even disturb beginner .NET developers to start developing and
releasing Web Services - they disturb by creating wrong impression that
developing Web Services using MS software is a very complicated task. And it
isn't.

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 7:21 PM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet

Shamil,

I understand that only people who have problems write comments about the
problems they have.  I also 
understand that if someone uses VS.Net to write both ends of the channel
then the probability of 
problems drops dramatically.

I would not characterize such comments a "junk" however, I believe that such
problems are very real, 
particularly when you are dealing with disparate technologies on either end.
The article itself was 
found in the C# start page, and he was having problems using .Net to try to
talk to a service 
created in some other technology (from the little I actually understood).

What I found daunting was the gobbledegook of terms and technologies being
discussed.  It certainly 
appeared to me that the majority of these "junk" comments were .Net
developers trying to use .Net to 
subscribe (if that is the correct phrase) to services that were created in
some other technology. 
Who had to do so for business reasons, in their work.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote:
> Hi John,
> 
> I did read comments from the ref you quoted here - they are a usual "junk"
-
> I mean real developers who use MS software do not waste time on writing
> comments how bad this MS software is :) I can assure you (as many other
> developers here) it's not that bad as you can find reading all that "junk
> comments".
> 
> BTW, I liked this comment, which I classify as very helpful, and coming
from
> experienced developer (as I also am BTW :)O:
> 
> <<<<<<<<<<
> Ben Kloosterman, 21 June 2009, 20:38:34 (Pacific Standard Time, UTC-08:00)
> 
> The problem is not with WCF (or Axis) but with people who choose overly
> complicated scenarios. WCF is far superior to Axis though because Services
> framework allow things people use them. 
> 
> eg 
> - Security 95% of the time no transport security/encryption is sufficient.
> - Use custom headers dont fudge it like the article , this method is very
> common .
> - Use complicated types , inheritcance , interfaces , collections etc ..
> KISS and use the DTO pattern. ( DOnt pollute your business domain with the
> need to tranport it)
> 
> The big advantage REST has is you cant do the fancy things but everything
> you can do with REST you can do with WCF and keep it or even more simple. 
> 
> Ben
> 
> And BTW, my current proposal is to use SOAP (ASP.NET 2.0) Web Services for
> starters - they are easier to start with = you can create such Web
Services
> within VS2008. Later on you can convert them to WCF/REST web services -
> you'll just need to change interface/fa?ade in most of the cases.
> 
> And a sample Web Service I created here is exactly a SOAP web service:
> 
> http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx
> 
> You can find comments on its interface in P.S. of this message. And you
can
> consume this web service using sample code I provided in my previous
> postings within this thread. (All the C# code for this Web Service
including
> comments is about 270+ code lines long - and that's all you have to write
-
> no need to code manually .wsdl etc. )
> 
> Some of my experience with Web Services:
> 
> 1) One of my overseas customers (WA) did use web service running on my
> hosting site (Moscow, Russia, and it runs within common application pool)
> for several months. And this web service was queried dozen times within a
> second from his programs running on 5+ computers from his LAN there.
Result:
> no any major trouble at all.
> 
> 2) Another customer does use web service developed here to synchronize
> two-way "field-force automation" local MS SQL Express databases with
central
> MS SQL database running behind large ASP.NET application. No problem.
> 
> Etc.
> 
> Recap: Stop reading "junk comments", start acting.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> --
> Shamil
> 
> P.S. Sample web service interface (Note: this sample web service was made
in
> one go, without any "heavy load" on brain cells, within a couple of hours
> including several times of (XCOPY) deployment on ASP.NET hosting site,
> testing etc. - I mean with some more work it can be done 100%
"bullet-proof"
> but even now it should be strong enough - you can test it):
> 
> /// <summary>
> /// Test method - Hello, World!
> /// </summary>
> /// <returns>String 'Hello MS Access World!'</returns>
> [WebMethod]
> public string HelloWorld()
> 
> /// <summary>
> /// Stores given file in Web service memory
> /// </summary>
> /// <param name="fileName">File name</param>
> /// <param name="fileText">File text</param>
> /// <returns>Stored file length if file stored successfully,
> /// otherwise throws ApplicationException </returns>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter is null or
> empty</exception>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileText parameter is null or
> empty</exception>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter's value
length
> exceeds 255 chars</exception>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileText parameter's value
length
> exceeds 100KB chars</exception>
> /// <remarks>
> /// If the total length of stored files exceed 3MB then web service
deletes
> /// stored files until there will be enough space to store a new file.
> /// </remarks> 
> [WebMethod]
> public int StoreFile(string fileName, string fileText)
> 
> /// <summary>
> /// Gets stored on web service side file
> /// </summary>
> /// <param name="fileName">File name</param>
> /// <returns>Stored file text if file retrieved successfully,
> /// otherwise throws ApplicationException </returns>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter is null or
> empty</exception>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter's value
length
> exceeds 255 chars</exception>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">{fileName} - file not
> found</exception>
> [WebMethod]
> public string GetFile(string fileName)
> 
> /// <summary>
> /// Delets stored on web service side file
> /// </summary>
> /// <param name="fileName">File name</param>
> /// <returns>True if file deleted successfully,
> /// otherwise throws ApplicationException </returns>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter is null or
> empty</exception>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter's value
length
> exceeds 255 chars</exception>
> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">{fileName} - file not
> found</exception>
> [WebMethod]
> public bool DeleteFile(string fileName)
> 
> /// <summary>
> /// Gets Web Service usage statistics
> /// </summary>
> /// <returns></returns>
> [WebMethod] 
> public string GetWebServiceUsageStatistics()
> 
> /// <summary>
> /// Gets 'Lorem Ipsum...' text
> /// </summary>
> /// <param name="amount">Speficies amount of <paramref name="what"
> parameter/></param>
> /// <param name="what">Defines generation units: words, paras, bytes,
> lists</param>
> /// <returns></returns>
> [WebMethod] 
> public string GetLoremIpsumText(long amount, string what)
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 5:21 AM
> To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
> 
> http://www.hanselman.com/blog/BreakingAllTheRulesWithWCF.aspx
> 
> Read all the comments at the bottom.
> 
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com
> 
> <<< snip>>>
>  
> 
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
signature
> database 4380 (20090829) __________
> 
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
> 
> http://www.esetnod32.ru
>  
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 
_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4381 (20090830) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru






From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Sun Aug 30 13:45:58 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 22:45:58 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Posted web service test sample at northwind.codeplex.com
Message-ID: <004001ca29a2$1e6e5b30$5b4b1190$@spb.ru>

Hi All,

 

FYI: I have posted web service test sample at northwind.codeplex.com

 

http://northwind.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=26600#D
ownloadId=81254 

 

More information on this test is posted in another posting here, which waits
moderators approval as its message body is too big: 23418 bytes with a limit
of 20 KB.

 

Thank you.

 

--

Shamil



From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Sun Aug 30 13:51:41 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 14:51:41 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <003a01ca299d$8d97caa0$a8c75fe0$@spb.ru>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>	<A0EE8D558F30475DA302FCEDB2F81D4F@advancedinput.com>	<002101ca28d5$3357af10$9a070d30$@spb.ru>	<4A997E5B.20909@colbyconsulting.com>	<002301ca28e9$2aaf8f40$800eadc0$@spb.ru>	<4A99D411.7000207@colbyconsulting.com>	<002d01ca2944$df79b210$9e6d1630$@spb.ru>	<4A9A98CE.2090303@colbyconsulting.com>
	<003a01ca299d$8d97caa0$a8c75fe0$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <4A9ACA3D.3040206@colbyconsulting.com>

Shamil,

I understand and mostly agree with your opinions.  Of course I will accept your advice, start small, 
and not worry about the gobbledygook..

 > I do share Ben Kloosterman's opinion: "The problem is not with WCF (or Axis) (or SOAP) but with 
people who choose overly complicated scenarios"...

I have to smile because you are recommending soap web services, to someone just coming up to speed 
on C# (taking a beginners class!) to replace a dead simple to implement software VPN and a shared 
directory!

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote:
> Hi John,
> 
> OK.
> 
> <<<
> What I found daunting was the gobbledegook of terms and technologies being
> discussed.
> John, if I'd tell you - do not bother about this "gobbledegook" now would
> you accept my advice?
> I mean you do not need to know all that stuff until you'll really need it -
> you can just start developing and releasing SOAP Web Services - it's not
> that complicated. 
> 
> I do share Ben Kloosterman's opinion: "The problem is not with WCF (or Axis)
> (or SOAP) but with people who choose overly complicated scenarios"...
> 
> I called comments "junk" because most of them are not constructive, and they
> do not help, even disturb beginner .NET developers to start developing and
> releasing Web Services - they disturb by creating wrong impression that
> developing Web Services using MS software is a very complicated task. And it
> isn't.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> --
> Shamil
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 7:21 PM
> To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
> 
> Shamil,
> 
> I understand that only people who have problems write comments about the
> problems they have.  I also 
> understand that if someone uses VS.Net to write both ends of the channel
> then the probability of 
> problems drops dramatically.
> 
> I would not characterize such comments a "junk" however, I believe that such
> problems are very real, 
> particularly when you are dealing with disparate technologies on either end.
> The article itself was 
> found in the C# start page, and he was having problems using .Net to try to
> talk to a service 
> created in some other technology (from the little I actually understood).
> 
> What I found daunting was the gobbledegook of terms and technologies being
> discussed.  It certainly 
> appeared to me that the majority of these "junk" comments were .Net
> developers trying to use .Net to 
> subscribe (if that is the correct phrase) to services that were created in
> some other technology. 
> Who had to do so for business reasons, in their work.
> 
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com
> 
> 
> Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote:
>> Hi John,
>>
>> I did read comments from the ref you quoted here - they are a usual "junk"
> -
>> I mean real developers who use MS software do not waste time on writing
>> comments how bad this MS software is :) I can assure you (as many other
>> developers here) it's not that bad as you can find reading all that "junk
>> comments".
>>
>> BTW, I liked this comment, which I classify as very helpful, and coming
> from
>> experienced developer (as I also am BTW :)O:
>>
>> <<<<<<<<<<
>> Ben Kloosterman, 21 June 2009, 20:38:34 (Pacific Standard Time, UTC-08:00)
>>
>> The problem is not with WCF (or Axis) but with people who choose overly
>> complicated scenarios. WCF is far superior to Axis though because Services
>> framework allow things people use them. 
>>
>> eg 
>> - Security 95% of the time no transport security/encryption is sufficient.
>> - Use custom headers dont fudge it like the article , this method is very
>> common .
>> - Use complicated types , inheritcance , interfaces , collections etc ..
>> KISS and use the DTO pattern. ( DOnt pollute your business domain with the
>> need to tranport it)
>>
>> The big advantage REST has is you cant do the fancy things but everything
>> you can do with REST you can do with WCF and keep it or even more simple. 
>>
>> Ben
>>
>> And BTW, my current proposal is to use SOAP (ASP.NET 2.0) Web Services for
>> starters - they are easier to start with = you can create such Web
> Services
>> within VS2008. Later on you can convert them to WCF/REST web services -
>> you'll just need to change interface/fa?ade in most of the cases.
>>
>> And a sample Web Service I created here is exactly a SOAP web service:
>>
>> http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx
>>
>> You can find comments on its interface in P.S. of this message. And you
> can
>> consume this web service using sample code I provided in my previous
>> postings within this thread. (All the C# code for this Web Service
> including
>> comments is about 270+ code lines long - and that's all you have to write
> -
>> no need to code manually .wsdl etc. )
>>
>> Some of my experience with Web Services:
>>
>> 1) One of my overseas customers (WA) did use web service running on my
>> hosting site (Moscow, Russia, and it runs within common application pool)
>> for several months. And this web service was queried dozen times within a
>> second from his programs running on 5+ computers from his LAN there.
> Result:
>> no any major trouble at all.
>>
>> 2) Another customer does use web service developed here to synchronize
>> two-way "field-force automation" local MS SQL Express databases with
> central
>> MS SQL database running behind large ASP.NET application. No problem.
>>
>> Etc.
>>
>> Recap: Stop reading "junk comments", start acting.
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> --
>> Shamil
>>
>> P.S. Sample web service interface (Note: this sample web service was made
> in
>> one go, without any "heavy load" on brain cells, within a couple of hours
>> including several times of (XCOPY) deployment on ASP.NET hosting site,
>> testing etc. - I mean with some more work it can be done 100%
> "bullet-proof"
>> but even now it should be strong enough - you can test it):
>>
>> /// <summary>
>> /// Test method - Hello, World!
>> /// </summary>
>> /// <returns>String 'Hello MS Access World!'</returns>
>> [WebMethod]
>> public string HelloWorld()
>>
>> /// <summary>
>> /// Stores given file in Web service memory
>> /// </summary>
>> /// <param name="fileName">File name</param>
>> /// <param name="fileText">File text</param>
>> /// <returns>Stored file length if file stored successfully,
>> /// otherwise throws ApplicationException </returns>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter is null or
>> empty</exception>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileText parameter is null or
>> empty</exception>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter's value
> length
>> exceeds 255 chars</exception>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileText parameter's value
> length
>> exceeds 100KB chars</exception>
>> /// <remarks>
>> /// If the total length of stored files exceed 3MB then web service
> deletes
>> /// stored files until there will be enough space to store a new file.
>> /// </remarks> 
>> [WebMethod]
>> public int StoreFile(string fileName, string fileText)
>>
>> /// <summary>
>> /// Gets stored on web service side file
>> /// </summary>
>> /// <param name="fileName">File name</param>
>> /// <returns>Stored file text if file retrieved successfully,
>> /// otherwise throws ApplicationException </returns>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter is null or
>> empty</exception>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter's value
> length
>> exceeds 255 chars</exception>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">{fileName} - file not
>> found</exception>
>> [WebMethod]
>> public string GetFile(string fileName)
>>
>> /// <summary>
>> /// Delets stored on web service side file
>> /// </summary>
>> /// <param name="fileName">File name</param>
>> /// <returns>True if file deleted successfully,
>> /// otherwise throws ApplicationException </returns>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter is null or
>> empty</exception>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter's value
> length
>> exceeds 255 chars</exception>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">{fileName} - file not
>> found</exception>
>> [WebMethod]
>> public bool DeleteFile(string fileName)
>>
>> /// <summary>
>> /// Gets Web Service usage statistics
>> /// </summary>
>> /// <returns></returns>
>> [WebMethod] 
>> public string GetWebServiceUsageStatistics()
>>
>> /// <summary>
>> /// Gets 'Lorem Ipsum...' text
>> /// </summary>
>> /// <param name="amount">Speficies amount of <paramref name="what"
>> parameter/></param>
>> /// <param name="what">Defines generation units: words, paras, bytes,
>> lists</param>
>> /// <returns></returns>
>> [WebMethod] 
>> public string GetLoremIpsumText(long amount, string what)
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
>> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 5:21 AM
>> To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
>> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
>>
>> http://www.hanselman.com/blog/BreakingAllTheRulesWithWCF.aspx
>>
>> Read all the comments at the bottom.
>>
>> John W. Colby
>> www.ColbyConsulting.com
>>
>> <<< snip>>>
>>  
>>
>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
> signature
>> database 4380 (20090829) __________
>>
>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>
>> http://www.esetnod32.ru
>>  
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> dba-VB mailing list
>> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
>> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
> database 4381 (20090830) __________
> 
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
> 
> http://www.esetnod32.ru
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 


From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Sun Aug 30 14:24:45 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 23:24:45 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <4A9ACA3D.3040206@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>	<A0EE8D558F30475DA302FCEDB2F81D4F@advancedinput.com>	<002101ca28d5$3357af10$9a070d30$@spb.ru>	<4A997E5B.20909@colbyconsulting.com>	<002301ca28e9$2aaf8f40$800eadc0$@spb.ru>	<4A99D411.7000207@colbyconsulting.com>	<002d01ca2944$df79b210$9e6d1630$@spb.ru>	<4A9A98CE.2090303@colbyconsulting.com>	<003a01ca299d$8d97caa0$a8c75fe0$@spb.ru>
	<4A9ACA3D.3040206@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <004501ca29a7$89bad300$9d307900$@spb.ru>

Hi John,

Of course you can use "a dead simple to implement software VPN and a shared
directory" - just do not let "gobbledygook" and "misleading comments" to
stop experimenting with .NET Web Services right now: you don't even need to
know what SOAP is as you get all the complexities of communication of client
apps with SOAP web services hidden...

You'll also hear comments that "SOAP Web Services are heavy and slow" etc. -
do not care about that if you do not need response time measured in
milliseconds - and as I have seen from your task description you do not need
such response time...

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 10:52 PM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet

Shamil,

I understand and mostly agree with your opinions.  Of course I will accept
your advice, start small, 
and not worry about the gobbledygook..

 > I do share Ben Kloosterman's opinion: "The problem is not with WCF (or
Axis) (or SOAP) but with 
people who choose overly complicated scenarios"...

I have to smile because you are recommending soap web services, to someone
just coming up to speed 
on C# (taking a beginners class!) to replace a dead simple to implement
software VPN and a shared 
directory!

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote:
> Hi John,
> 
> OK.
> 
> <<<
> What I found daunting was the gobbledegook of terms and technologies being
> discussed.
> John, if I'd tell you - do not bother about this "gobbledegook" now would
> you accept my advice?
> I mean you do not need to know all that stuff until you'll really need it
-
> you can just start developing and releasing SOAP Web Services - it's not
> that complicated. 
> 
> I do share Ben Kloosterman's opinion: "The problem is not with WCF (or
Axis)
> (or SOAP) but with people who choose overly complicated scenarios"...
> 
> I called comments "junk" because most of them are not constructive, and
they
> do not help, even disturb beginner .NET developers to start developing and
> releasing Web Services - they disturb by creating wrong impression that
> developing Web Services using MS software is a very complicated task. And
it
> isn't.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> --
> Shamil
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 7:21 PM
> To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
> 
> Shamil,
> 
> I understand that only people who have problems write comments about the
> problems they have.  I also 
> understand that if someone uses VS.Net to write both ends of the channel
> then the probability of 
> problems drops dramatically.
> 
> I would not characterize such comments a "junk" however, I believe that
such
> problems are very real, 
> particularly when you are dealing with disparate technologies on either
end.
> The article itself was 
> found in the C# start page, and he was having problems using .Net to try
to
> talk to a service 
> created in some other technology (from the little I actually understood).
> 
> What I found daunting was the gobbledegook of terms and technologies being
> discussed.  It certainly 
> appeared to me that the majority of these "junk" comments were .Net
> developers trying to use .Net to 
> subscribe (if that is the correct phrase) to services that were created in
> some other technology. 
> Who had to do so for business reasons, in their work.
> 
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com
> 
> 
> Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote:
>> Hi John,
>>
>> I did read comments from the ref you quoted here - they are a usual
"junk"
> -
>> I mean real developers who use MS software do not waste time on writing
>> comments how bad this MS software is :) I can assure you (as many other
>> developers here) it's not that bad as you can find reading all that "junk
>> comments".
>>
>> BTW, I liked this comment, which I classify as very helpful, and coming
> from
>> experienced developer (as I also am BTW :)O:
>>
>> <<<<<<<<<<
>> Ben Kloosterman, 21 June 2009, 20:38:34 (Pacific Standard Time,
UTC-08:00)
>>
>> The problem is not with WCF (or Axis) but with people who choose overly
>> complicated scenarios. WCF is far superior to Axis though because
Services
>> framework allow things people use them. 
>>
>> eg 
>> - Security 95% of the time no transport security/encryption is
sufficient.
>> - Use custom headers dont fudge it like the article , this method is very
>> common .
>> - Use complicated types , inheritcance , interfaces , collections etc ..
>> KISS and use the DTO pattern. ( DOnt pollute your business domain with
the
>> need to tranport it)
>>
>> The big advantage REST has is you cant do the fancy things but everything
>> you can do with REST you can do with WCF and keep it or even more simple.

>>
>> Ben
>>
>> And BTW, my current proposal is to use SOAP (ASP.NET 2.0) Web Services
for
>> starters - they are easier to start with = you can create such Web
> Services
>> within VS2008. Later on you can convert them to WCF/REST web services -
>> you'll just need to change interface/fa?ade in most of the cases.
>>
>> And a sample Web Service I created here is exactly a SOAP web service:
>>
>> http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx
>>
>> You can find comments on its interface in P.S. of this message. And you
> can
>> consume this web service using sample code I provided in my previous
>> postings within this thread. (All the C# code for this Web Service
> including
>> comments is about 270+ code lines long - and that's all you have to write
> -
>> no need to code manually .wsdl etc. )
>>
>> Some of my experience with Web Services:
>>
>> 1) One of my overseas customers (WA) did use web service running on my
>> hosting site (Moscow, Russia, and it runs within common application pool)
>> for several months. And this web service was queried dozen times within a
>> second from his programs running on 5+ computers from his LAN there.
> Result:
>> no any major trouble at all.
>>
>> 2) Another customer does use web service developed here to synchronize
>> two-way "field-force automation" local MS SQL Express databases with
> central
>> MS SQL database running behind large ASP.NET application. No problem.
>>
>> Etc.
>>
>> Recap: Stop reading "junk comments", start acting.
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> --
>> Shamil
>>
>> P.S. Sample web service interface (Note: this sample web service was made
> in
>> one go, without any "heavy load" on brain cells, within a couple of hours
>> including several times of (XCOPY) deployment on ASP.NET hosting site,
>> testing etc. - I mean with some more work it can be done 100%
> "bullet-proof"
>> but even now it should be strong enough - you can test it):
>>
>> /// <summary>
>> /// Test method - Hello, World!
>> /// </summary>
>> /// <returns>String 'Hello MS Access World!'</returns>
>> [WebMethod]
>> public string HelloWorld()
>>
>> /// <summary>
>> /// Stores given file in Web service memory
>> /// </summary>
>> /// <param name="fileName">File name</param>
>> /// <param name="fileText">File text</param>
>> /// <returns>Stored file length if file stored successfully,
>> /// otherwise throws ApplicationException </returns>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter is null or
>> empty</exception>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileText parameter is null or
>> empty</exception>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter's value
> length
>> exceeds 255 chars</exception>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileText parameter's value
> length
>> exceeds 100KB chars</exception>
>> /// <remarks>
>> /// If the total length of stored files exceed 3MB then web service
> deletes
>> /// stored files until there will be enough space to store a new file.
>> /// </remarks> 
>> [WebMethod]
>> public int StoreFile(string fileName, string fileText)
>>
>> /// <summary>
>> /// Gets stored on web service side file
>> /// </summary>
>> /// <param name="fileName">File name</param>
>> /// <returns>Stored file text if file retrieved successfully,
>> /// otherwise throws ApplicationException </returns>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter is null or
>> empty</exception>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter's value
> length
>> exceeds 255 chars</exception>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">{fileName} - file not
>> found</exception>
>> [WebMethod]
>> public string GetFile(string fileName)
>>
>> /// <summary>
>> /// Delets stored on web service side file
>> /// </summary>
>> /// <param name="fileName">File name</param>
>> /// <returns>True if file deleted successfully,
>> /// otherwise throws ApplicationException </returns>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter is null or
>> empty</exception>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter's value
> length
>> exceeds 255 chars</exception>
>> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">{fileName} - file not
>> found</exception>
>> [WebMethod]
>> public bool DeleteFile(string fileName)
>>
>> /// <summary>
>> /// Gets Web Service usage statistics
>> /// </summary>
>> /// <returns></returns>
>> [WebMethod] 
>> public string GetWebServiceUsageStatistics()
>>
>> /// <summary>
>> /// Gets 'Lorem Ipsum...' text
>> /// </summary>
>> /// <param name="amount">Speficies amount of <paramref name="what"
>> parameter/></param>
>> /// <param name="what">Defines generation units: words, paras, bytes,
>> lists</param>
>> /// <returns></returns>
>> [WebMethod] 
>> public string GetLoremIpsumText(long amount, string what)
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
>> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 5:21 AM
>> To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
>> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
>>
>> http://www.hanselman.com/blog/BreakingAllTheRulesWithWCF.aspx
>>
>> Read all the comments at the bottom.
>>
>> John W. Colby
>> www.ColbyConsulting.com
>>
>> <<< snip>>>
>>  
>>
>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
> signature
>> database 4380 (20090829) __________
>>
>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>
>> http://www.esetnod32.ru
>>  
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> dba-VB mailing list
>> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
>> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
signature
> database 4381 (20090830) __________
> 
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
> 
> http://www.esetnod32.ru
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 
_______________________________________________
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dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


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database 4381 (20090830) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru






From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Sun Aug 30 14:34:13 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 23:34:13 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Posted web service test sample at
	northwind.codeplex.com
In-Reply-To: <004001ca29a2$1e6e5b30$5b4b1190$@spb.ru>
References: <004001ca29a2$1e6e5b30$5b4b1190$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <004601ca29a8$dbf17740$93d465c0$@spb.ru>

Hi All,

I have to post a note on stats reported by test code:

--
Test cycle started at 30.08.2009 23:24:52, cycles left = 1340
Elapsed Time = 2,49 seconds for 20 calls (0,1245s/call, fileSize = 30410)

Total Elapsed Time In Seconds = 479,88
Total Web Service Calls = 2220,00
Total Files' Bytes Transferred = 17243880,00
Avg.ThroughOutput = 35933,81 bytes/s
--

First line reports starting time of the current test cycle, which consists
of 20 calls to Web Service: 10 "StoreFile" calls and 10 "GetFile" calls,
every call transfers to the Web Service/retrieves 30410 bytes (not counting
"SOAP" envelopes' bytes)

Second line reports the stats for completed current cycle.

Third till sixth lines report overall stats for all the calls (from all the
PCs anywhere test will run) to the web service since this web service was
released.

There could be errors in the code/stats calculation - please post your
remarks if you'll find some.

Thank you.

--
Shamil


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil
Salakhetdinov
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 10:46 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: [dba-VB] Posted web service test sample at northwind.codeplex.com

Hi All,

 

FYI: I have posted web service test sample at northwind.codeplex.com

 

http://northwind.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=26600#D
ownloadId=81254 

 

More information on this test is posted in another posting here, which waits
moderators approval as its message body is too big: 23418 bytes with a limit
of 20 KB.

 

Thank you.

 

--

Shamil

_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4381 (20090830) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru


 

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database 4381 (20090830) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru
 



From Gustav at cactus.dk  Sun Aug 30 16:24:42 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 23:24:42 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
Message-ID: <sa9b0a54.021@cactus.dk>

Hi John

I'll have to second Shamil. When I joined an early presentation of Windows Communication Foundation it was the first time I began understanding what web services are about - all other info had been bits and pieces, some working but none with the big picture. WCF is so well thought out that you can say "this time MS got it right".

Also note, that the guy at the blog is not having an issue with WCF but states that "I still need to get the WCF client to talk to this unusual endpoint".
Unfortunately, this is an example of how blogs can be a total waste of time. This guy obviously knows what he talks about but - like Shamil - I browsed the comments (before reading Shamil's message here on the same) only to find them talking in East and West with no useful or educating info except one - the same that Shamil has quoted previously.

For any other project than your current very simple one I would happily go with WCF.

/gustav


>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 30-08-2009 20:13 >>>
Hi John,

OK.

<<<
What I found daunting was the gobbledegook of terms and technologies being
discussed.
>>>
John, if I'd tell you - do not bother about this "gobbledegook" now would
you accept my advice?
I mean you do not need to know all that stuff until you'll really need it -
you can just start developing and releasing SOAP Web Services - it's not
that complicated. 

I do share Ben Kloosterman's opinion: "The problem is not with WCF (or Axis)
(or SOAP) but with people who choose overly complicated scenarios"...

I called comments "junk" because most of them are not constructive, and they
do not help, even disturb beginner .NET developers to start developing and
releasing Web Services - they disturb by creating wrong impression that
developing Web Services using MS software is a very complicated task. And it
isn't.

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 7:21 PM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet

Shamil,

I understand that only people who have problems write comments about the problems they have.  I also 
understand that if someone uses VS.Net to write both ends of the channel then the probability of 
problems drops dramatically.

I would not characterize such comments a "junk" however, I believe that such problems are very real, 
particularly when you are dealing with disparate technologies on either end. The article itself was 
found in the C# start page, and he was having problems using .Net to try to talk to a service 
created in some other technology (from the little I actually understood).

What I found daunting was the gobbledegook of terms and technologies being discussed.  It certainly 
appeared to me that the majority of these "junk" comments were .Net developers trying to use .Net to 
subscribe (if that is the correct phrase) to services that were created in some other technology. 
Who had to do so for business reasons, in their work.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com 


Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote:
> Hi John,
> 
> I did read comments from the ref you quoted here - they are a usual "junk"
-
> I mean real developers who use MS software do not waste time on writing
> comments how bad this MS software is :) I can assure you (as many other
> developers here) it's not that bad as you can find reading all that "junk
> comments".
> 
> BTW, I liked this comment, which I classify as very helpful, and coming
from
> experienced developer (as I also am BTW :)O:
> 
> <<<<<<<<<<
> Ben Kloosterman, 21 June 2009, 20:38:34 (Pacific Standard Time, UTC-08:00)
> 
> The problem is not with WCF (or Axis) but with people who choose overly
> complicated scenarios. WCF is far superior to Axis though because Services
> framework allow things people use them. 
> 
> eg 
> - Security 95% of the time no transport security/encryption is sufficient.
> - Use custom headers dont fudge it like the article , this method is very
> common .
> - Use complicated types , inheritcance , interfaces , collections etc ..
> KISS and use the DTO pattern. ( DOnt pollute your business domain with the
> need to tranport it)
> 
> The big advantage REST has is you cant do the fancy things but everything
> you can do with REST you can do with WCF and keep it or even more simple. 
> 
> Ben
> 
> And BTW, my current proposal is to use SOAP (ASP.NET 2.0) Web Services for
> starters - they are easier to start with = you can create such Web
Services
> within VS2008. Later on you can convert them to WCF/REST web services -
> you'll just need to change interface/fa?ade in most of the cases.
> 
> And a sample Web Service I created here is exactly a SOAP web service:
> 
> http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx 
> 
> You can find comments on its interface in P.S. of this message. And you
can
> consume this web service using sample code I provided in my previous
> postings within this thread. (All the C# code for this Web Service
including
> comments is about 270+ code lines long - and that's all you have to write
-
> no need to code manually .wsdl etc. )
> 
> Some of my experience with Web Services:
> 
> 1) One of my overseas customers (WA) did use web service running on my
> hosting site (Moscow, Russia, and it runs within common application pool)
> for several months. And this web service was queried dozen times within a
> second from his programs running on 5+ computers from his LAN there.
Result:
> no any major trouble at all.
> 
> 2) Another customer does use web service developed here to synchronize
> two-way "field-force automation" local MS SQL Express databases with
central
> MS SQL database running behind large ASP.NET application. No problem.
> 
> Etc.
> 
> Recap: Stop reading "junk comments", start acting.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> --
> Shamil




From dbdoug at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 16:47:35 2009
From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 14:47:35 -0700
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <sa9b0a54.021@cactus.dk>
References: <sa9b0a54.021@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <4dd71a0c0908301447s1c1fc75cw1eac8e9761f2a50@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Gustav (and Shamil)

I've been following this discussion with some interest.  My impression of
web services is that they are basically for publishing information (like a
parts catalogue) which could be read and used by clients.  I gather that
this is not the whole picture.

I've spent several hours on the web recently trying to get more information;
however I have yet to stumble on a site which gives a clear explanation
and/or some practical examples.  Do you have any good references?

Thanks,

Doug Steele

On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 2:24 PM, Gustav Brock <Gustav at cactus.dk> wrote:

> Hi John
>
> I'll have to second Shamil. When I joined an early presentation of Windows
> Communication Foundation it was the first time I began understanding what
> web services are about - all other info had been bits and pieces, some
> working but none with the big picture. WCF is so well thought out that you
> can say "this time MS got it right".
>
>
>


From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Sun Aug 30 16:59:54 2009
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 07:59:54 +1000
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <4A9ACA3D.3040206@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>,
	<003a01ca299d$8d97caa0$a8c75fe0$@spb.ru>,
	<4A9ACA3D.3040206@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <4A9AF65A.10563.18F51086@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

WCF, SOAP, Web Services etc are necessary if you are exposing services to all and 
sundry on the web.

There are far simpler ways to exchange data when you have control of both the client and 
the server. These other methods do not require you to set up a web server and publish a 
schema which then opens up your data to the whole world.  Take a look at a simple TCPIP 
client/server solution first.  Here's a simple one in VB .Net 

http://www.eggheadcafe.com/articles/20020323.asp

This could be easily modified to do the sort of thing you are after, with the Listener 
application doing most of the work.

-- 
Stuart

On 30 Aug 2009 at 14:51, jwcolby wrote:

> Shamil,
> 
> I understand and mostly agree with your opinions.  Of course I will accept your advice, start small, 
> and not worry about the gobbledygook..
> 
>  > I do share Ben Kloosterman's opinion: "The problem is not with WCF (or Axis) (or SOAP) but with 
> people who choose overly complicated scenarios"...
> 
> I have to smile because you are recommending soap web services, to someone just coming up to speed 
> on C# (taking a beginners class!) to replace a dead simple to implement software VPN and a shared 
> directory!
> 
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com
> 
> 
> Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote:
> > Hi John,
> > 
> > OK.
> > 
> > <<<
> > What I found daunting was the gobbledegook of terms and technologies being
> > discussed.
> > John, if I'd tell you - do not bother about this "gobbledegook" now would
> > you accept my advice?
> > I mean you do not need to know all that stuff until you'll really need it -
> > you can just start developing and releasing SOAP Web Services - it's not
> > that complicated. 
> > 
> > I do share Ben Kloosterman's opinion: "The problem is not with WCF (or Axis)
> > (or SOAP) but with people who choose overly complicated scenarios"...
> > 
> > I called comments "junk" because most of them are not constructive, and they
> > do not help, even disturb beginner .NET developers to start developing and
> > releasing Web Services - they disturb by creating wrong impression that
> > developing Web Services using MS software is a very complicated task. And it
> > isn't.
> > 
> > Thank you.
> > 
> > --
> > Shamil
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
> > Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 7:21 PM
> > To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
> > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
> > 
> > Shamil,
> > 
> > I understand that only people who have problems write comments about the
> > problems they have.  I also 
> > understand that if someone uses VS.Net to write both ends of the channel
> > then the probability of 
> > problems drops dramatically.
> > 
> > I would not characterize such comments a "junk" however, I believe that such
> > problems are very real, 
> > particularly when you are dealing with disparate technologies on either end.
> > The article itself was 
> > found in the C# start page, and he was having problems using .Net to try to
> > talk to a service 
> > created in some other technology (from the little I actually understood).
> > 
> > What I found daunting was the gobbledegook of terms and technologies being
> > discussed.  It certainly 
> > appeared to me that the majority of these "junk" comments were .Net
> > developers trying to use .Net to 
> > subscribe (if that is the correct phrase) to services that were created in
> > some other technology. 
> > Who had to do so for business reasons, in their work.
> > 
> > John W. Colby
> > www.ColbyConsulting.com
> > 
> > 
> > Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote:
> >> Hi John,
> >>
> >> I did read comments from the ref you quoted here - they are a usual "junk"
> > -
> >> I mean real developers who use MS software do not waste time on writing
> >> comments how bad this MS software is :) I can assure you (as many other
> >> developers here) it's not that bad as you can find reading all that "junk
> >> comments".
> >>
> >> BTW, I liked this comment, which I classify as very helpful, and coming
> > from
> >> experienced developer (as I also am BTW :)O:
> >>
> >> <<<<<<<<<<
> >> Ben Kloosterman, 21 June 2009, 20:38:34 (Pacific Standard Time, UTC-08:00)
> >>
> >> The problem is not with WCF (or Axis) but with people who choose overly
> >> complicated scenarios. WCF is far superior to Axis though because Services
> >> framework allow things people use them. 
> >>
> >> eg 
> >> - Security 95% of the time no transport security/encryption is sufficient.
> >> - Use custom headers dont fudge it like the article , this method is very
> >> common .
> >> - Use complicated types , inheritcance , interfaces , collections etc ..
> >> KISS and use the DTO pattern. ( DOnt pollute your business domain with the
> >> need to tranport it)
> >>
> >> The big advantage REST has is you cant do the fancy things but everything
> >> you can do with REST you can do with WCF and keep it or even more simple. 
> >>
> >> Ben
> >>
> >> And BTW, my current proposal is to use SOAP (ASP.NET 2.0) Web Services for
> >> starters - they are easier to start with = you can create such Web
> > Services
> >> within VS2008. Later on you can convert them to WCF/REST web services -
> >> you'll just need to change interface/fa?ade in most of the cases.
> >>
> >> And a sample Web Service I created here is exactly a SOAP web service:
> >>
> >> http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx
> >>
> >> You can find comments on its interface in P.S. of this message. And you
> > can
> >> consume this web service using sample code I provided in my previous
> >> postings within this thread. (All the C# code for this Web Service
> > including
> >> comments is about 270+ code lines long - and that's all you have to write
> > -
> >> no need to code manually .wsdl etc. )
> >>
> >> Some of my experience with Web Services:
> >>
> >> 1) One of my overseas customers (WA) did use web service running on my
> >> hosting site (Moscow, Russia, and it runs within common application pool)
> >> for several months. And this web service was queried dozen times within a
> >> second from his programs running on 5+ computers from his LAN there.
> > Result:
> >> no any major trouble at all.
> >>
> >> 2) Another customer does use web service developed here to synchronize
> >> two-way "field-force automation" local MS SQL Express databases with
> > central
> >> MS SQL database running behind large ASP.NET application. No problem.
> >>
> >> Etc.
> >>
> >> Recap: Stop reading "junk comments", start acting.
> >>
> >> Thank you.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Shamil
> >>
> >> P.S. Sample web service interface (Note: this sample web service was made
> > in
> >> one go, without any "heavy load" on brain cells, within a couple of hours
> >> including several times of (XCOPY) deployment on ASP.NET hosting site,
> >> testing etc. - I mean with some more work it can be done 100%
> > "bullet-proof"
> >> but even now it should be strong enough - you can test it):
> >>
> >> /// <summary>
> >> /// Test method - Hello, World!
> >> /// </summary>
> >> /// <returns>String 'Hello MS Access World!'</returns>
> >> [WebMethod]
> >> public string HelloWorld()
> >>
> >> /// <summary>
> >> /// Stores given file in Web service memory
> >> /// </summary>
> >> /// <param name="fileName">File name</param>
> >> /// <param name="fileText">File text</param>
> >> /// <returns>Stored file length if file stored successfully,
> >> /// otherwise throws ApplicationException </returns>
> >> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter is null or
> >> empty</exception>
> >> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileText parameter is null or
> >> empty</exception>
> >> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter's value
> > length
> >> exceeds 255 chars</exception>
> >> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileText parameter's value
> > length
> >> exceeds 100KB chars</exception>
> >> /// <remarks>
> >> /// If the total length of stored files exceed 3MB then web service
> > deletes
> >> /// stored files until there will be enough space to store a new file.
> >> /// </remarks> 
> >> [WebMethod]
> >> public int StoreFile(string fileName, string fileText)
> >>
> >> /// <summary>
> >> /// Gets stored on web service side file
> >> /// </summary>
> >> /// <param name="fileName">File name</param>
> >> /// <returns>Stored file text if file retrieved successfully,
> >> /// otherwise throws ApplicationException </returns>
> >> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter is null or
> >> empty</exception>
> >> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter's value
> > length
> >> exceeds 255 chars</exception>
> >> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">{fileName} - file not
> >> found</exception>
> >> [WebMethod]
> >> public string GetFile(string fileName)
> >>
> >> /// <summary>
> >> /// Delets stored on web service side file
> >> /// </summary>
> >> /// <param name="fileName">File name</param>
> >> /// <returns>True if file deleted successfully,
> >> /// otherwise throws ApplicationException </returns>
> >> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter is null or
> >> empty</exception>
> >> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">fileName parameter's value
> > length
> >> exceeds 255 chars</exception>
> >> /// <exception cref="ApplicationException">{fileName} - file not
> >> found</exception>
> >> [WebMethod]
> >> public bool DeleteFile(string fileName)
> >>
> >> /// <summary>
> >> /// Gets Web Service usage statistics
> >> /// </summary>
> >> /// <returns></returns>
> >> [WebMethod] 
> >> public string GetWebServiceUsageStatistics()
> >>
> >> /// <summary>
> >> /// Gets 'Lorem Ipsum...' text
> >> /// </summary>
> >> /// <param name="amount">Speficies amount of <paramref name="what"
> >> parameter/></param>
> >> /// <param name="what">Defines generation units: words, paras, bytes,
> >> lists</param>
> >> /// <returns></returns>
> >> [WebMethod] 
> >> public string GetLoremIpsumText(long amount, string what)
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> >> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
> >> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 5:21 AM
> >> To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
> >> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
> >>
> >> http://www.hanselman.com/blog/BreakingAllTheRulesWithWCF.aspx
> >>
> >> Read all the comments at the bottom.
> >>
> >> John W. Colby
> >> www.ColbyConsulting.com
> >>
> >> <<< snip>>>
> >>  
> >>
> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
> > signature
> >> database 4380 (20090829) __________
> >>
> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
> >>
> >> http://www.esetnod32.ru
> >>  
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> dba-VB mailing list
> >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >>
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > dba-VB mailing list
> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > 
> > 
> > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
> > database 4381 (20090830) __________
> > 
> > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
> > 
> > http://www.esetnod32.ru
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > dba-VB mailing list
> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > 
> > 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 





From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Sun Aug 30 17:07:23 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 18:07:23 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] SPAM-LOW:  Re:  Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <sa9b0a54.021@cactus.dk>
References: <sa9b0a54.021@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <4A9AF81B.7000906@colbyconsulting.com>

Gustav,

 > For any other project than your current very simple one I would happily go with WCF.

And in fact I am rewriting this very simple project into C#, more as an exercise in doing so and 
making a commitment to a real live in-use app than because it absolutely requires a rewrite.

Having done so, and having the (small) time in the trenches getting it running etc., then using a 
web service may in fact make sense even for this very simple project.

This client has a bunch more stuff that he wants to be doing.  This current project (in Access) is 
his baby but it is only the start.  I have convinced him that I know what I am doing (in general 
terms, and in Access) and he is making plans for us doing the future.  The future will involve more 
of the same kind of stuff so having a standardized file transfer thing going would be a good very 
thing.

We are looking at doing an application for sale.  For that I believe that having it in C# could be a 
plus for a couple of reasons - the power of the .Net environment as well as the public perception of 
C# vs Access.  It is in preparation for that future that I am doing the rewrite of this first piece 
(and taking the class).  I need the practice!

 >I browsed the comments (before reading Shamil's message here on the same) only to find them 
talking in East and West with no useful or educating info except one - the same that Shamil has 
quoted previously.

I hear you, and I still find these kinds of comments useful for what they are - bitches about the 
pain of what is supposed to be a standard not being a standard.  Please do not take my comment as in 
any way "defending" whatever they are saying, simply that each such comment represents a truth for 
an individual out there somewhere.  Obviously they are not offering advice or solutions, simply 
irritated comments about the reality that they are exposed to.  OTOH that reality is .Net banging 
against another platform, not .Net banging against .Net.

In the same way, I read the all comments, including negative comments about anything I am 
researching to buy on Amazon.com or Newegg.com etc.  Things don't always work the way they are 
supposed to and it is useful to hear the negatives.

These comments were in response to a "it was a PITA" blog, so naturally they are going to chime in 
with their own PITA experiences and the general tone is down.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi John
> 
> I'll have to second Shamil. When I joined an early presentation of Windows Communication Foundation it was the first time I began understanding what web services are about - all other info had been bits and pieces, some working but none with the big picture. WCF is so well thought out that you can say "this time MS got it right".
> 
> Also note, that the guy at the blog is not having an issue with WCF but states that "I still need to get the WCF client to talk to this unusual endpoint".
> Unfortunately, this is an example of how blogs can be a total waste of time. This guy obviously knows what he talks about but - like Shamil - I browsed the comments (before reading Shamil's message here on the same) only to find them talking in East and West with no useful or educating info except one - the same that Shamil has quoted previously.
> 
> For any other project than your current very simple one I would happily go with WCF.
> 
> /gustav



From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Sun Aug 30 17:18:36 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 18:18:36 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] SPAM-LOW:  Re:  Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <4A9AF65A.10563.18F51086@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>,
	<003a01ca299d$8d97caa0$a8c75fe0$@spb.ru>,
	<4A9ACA3D.3040206@colbyconsulting.com>
	<4A9AF65A.10563.18F51086@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
Message-ID: <4A9AFABC.9000101@colbyconsulting.com>

Thanks Stuart.

I believe one of the implications of the service route was that the whole TCP/IP address / port 
thing goes away, IOW it can get through a firewall without having to get the intervention of IT.

I am listening to all points of view.  Luckily I am in no hurry here, it will be six months or more 
before I need to solve this problem, or even have the requisite knowledge.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Stuart McLachlan wrote:
> WCF, SOAP, Web Services etc are necessary if you are exposing services to all and 
> sundry on the web.
> 
> There are far simpler ways to exchange data when you have control of both the client and 
> the server. These other methods do not require you to set up a web server and publish a 
> schema which then opens up your data to the whole world.  Take a look at a simple TCPIP 
> client/server solution first.  Here's a simple one in VB .Net 
> 
> http://www.eggheadcafe.com/articles/20020323.asp
> 
> This could be easily modified to do the sort of thing you are after, with the Listener 
> application doing most of the work.
> 


From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Sun Aug 30 17:47:09 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 18:47:09 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] SPAM-LOW:  Re:  Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <sa9b0a54.021@cactus.dk>
References: <sa9b0a54.021@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <4A9B016D.7000709@colbyconsulting.com>

OK, I have a couple of books on the way on WCF.  Looks like light reading!

;)

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi John
> 
> I'll have to second Shamil. When I joined an early presentation of Windows Communication Foundation it was the first time I began understanding what web services are about - all other info had been bits and pieces, some working but none with the big picture. WCF is so well thought out that you can say "this time MS got it right".
> 
> Also note, that the guy at the blog is not having an issue with WCF but states that "I still need to get the WCF client to talk to this unusual endpoint".
> Unfortunately, this is an example of how blogs can be a total waste of time. This guy obviously knows what he talks about but - like Shamil - I browsed the comments (before reading Shamil's message here on the same) only to find them talking in East and West with no useful or educating info except one - the same that Shamil has quoted previously.
> 
> For any other project than your current very simple one I would happily go with WCF.
> 
> /gustav
> 
> 
>>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 30-08-2009 20:13 >>>
> Hi John,
> 
> OK.
> 
> <<<
> What I found daunting was the gobbledegook of terms and technologies being
> discussed.
> John, if I'd tell you - do not bother about this "gobbledegook" now would
> you accept my advice?
> I mean you do not need to know all that stuff until you'll really need it -
> you can just start developing and releasing SOAP Web Services - it's not
> that complicated. 
> 
> I do share Ben Kloosterman's opinion: "The problem is not with WCF (or Axis)
> (or SOAP) but with people who choose overly complicated scenarios"...
> 
> I called comments "junk" because most of them are not constructive, and they
> do not help, even disturb beginner .NET developers to start developing and
> releasing Web Services - they disturb by creating wrong impression that
> developing Web Services using MS software is a very complicated task. And it
> isn't.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> --
> Shamil
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 7:21 PM
> To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
> 
> Shamil,
> 
> I understand that only people who have problems write comments about the problems they have.  I also 
> understand that if someone uses VS.Net to write both ends of the channel then the probability of 
> problems drops dramatically.
> 
> I would not characterize such comments a "junk" however, I believe that such problems are very real, 
> particularly when you are dealing with disparate technologies on either end. The article itself was 
> found in the C# start page, and he was having problems using .Net to try to talk to a service 
> created in some other technology (from the little I actually understood).
> 
> What I found daunting was the gobbledegook of terms and technologies being discussed.  It certainly 
> appeared to me that the majority of these "junk" comments were .Net developers trying to use .Net to 
> subscribe (if that is the correct phrase) to services that were created in some other technology. 
> Who had to do so for business reasons, in their work.
> 
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com 
> 
> 
> Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote:
>> Hi John,
>>
>> I did read comments from the ref you quoted here - they are a usual "junk"
> -
>> I mean real developers who use MS software do not waste time on writing
>> comments how bad this MS software is :) I can assure you (as many other
>> developers here) it's not that bad as you can find reading all that "junk
>> comments".
>>
>> BTW, I liked this comment, which I classify as very helpful, and coming
> from
>> experienced developer (as I also am BTW :)O:
>>
>> <<<<<<<<<<
>> Ben Kloosterman, 21 June 2009, 20:38:34 (Pacific Standard Time, UTC-08:00)
>>
>> The problem is not with WCF (or Axis) but with people who choose overly
>> complicated scenarios. WCF is far superior to Axis though because Services
>> framework allow things people use them. 
>>
>> eg 
>> - Security 95% of the time no transport security/encryption is sufficient.
>> - Use custom headers dont fudge it like the article , this method is very
>> common .
>> - Use complicated types , inheritcance , interfaces , collections etc ..
>> KISS and use the DTO pattern. ( DOnt pollute your business domain with the
>> need to tranport it)
>>
>> The big advantage REST has is you cant do the fancy things but everything
>> you can do with REST you can do with WCF and keep it or even more simple. 
>>
>> Ben
>>
>> And BTW, my current proposal is to use SOAP (ASP.NET 2.0) Web Services for
>> starters - they are easier to start with = you can create such Web
> Services
>> within VS2008. Later on you can convert them to WCF/REST web services -
>> you'll just need to change interface/fa?ade in most of the cases.
>>
>> And a sample Web Service I created here is exactly a SOAP web service:
>>
>> http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx 
>>
>> You can find comments on its interface in P.S. of this message. And you
> can
>> consume this web service using sample code I provided in my previous
>> postings within this thread. (All the C# code for this Web Service
> including
>> comments is about 270+ code lines long - and that's all you have to write
> -
>> no need to code manually .wsdl etc. )
>>
>> Some of my experience with Web Services:
>>
>> 1) One of my overseas customers (WA) did use web service running on my
>> hosting site (Moscow, Russia, and it runs within common application pool)
>> for several months. And this web service was queried dozen times within a
>> second from his programs running on 5+ computers from his LAN there.
> Result:
>> no any major trouble at all.
>>
>> 2) Another customer does use web service developed here to synchronize
>> two-way "field-force automation" local MS SQL Express databases with
> central
>> MS SQL database running behind large ASP.NET application. No problem.
>>
>> Etc.
>>
>> Recap: Stop reading "junk comments", start acting.
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> --
>> Shamil
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 


From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Sun Aug 30 18:30:02 2009
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 09:30:02 +1000
Subject: [dba-VB] SPAM-LOW:  Re:  Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <4A9AFABC.9000101@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>,
	<4A9AF65A.10563.18F51086@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>,
	<4A9AFABC.9000101@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <4A9B0B7A.29443.1947931F@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

The only reason it "goes away" is because web services use the standard HTTP port 80 
which is open by default on most routers.   That means there is no configuration needed on 
the client machines.  

But you will still need "IT" to configure the router and set up port forwarding to point to the 
server hosting the web service.  Of course, this is not an issue where you set up a web 
service on a public web server, but that is not what you are trying to do - you want 
something hosted internally which can access your internal file systems and databases and 
interface in a controlled manner with other machines.

There's nothing to stop you from using the same port 80 for your own TCP/IP Listener 
application. 

You can also any of the other "standard" ports which are likely to be open on a router such 
as FTP (21), SMTP(25),  POP3(110) etc

I have a couple of such Listener applications which do the sort of things you are after, but 
they are written in PB/Win - if you want to look at them to get a better idea of oterh way you 
can do this, I will send the source to you off line.


-- 
Stuart



On 30 Aug 2009 at 18:18, jwcolby wrote:

> Thanks Stuart.
> 
> I believe one of the implications of the service route was that the whole TCP/IP address / port 
> thing goes away, IOW it can get through a firewall without having to get the intervention of IT.
> 
> I am listening to all points of view.  Luckily I am in no hurry here, it will be six months or more 
> before I need to solve this problem, or even have the requisite knowledge.
> 
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com
> 
> 
> Stuart McLachlan wrote:
> > WCF, SOAP, Web Services etc are necessary if you are exposing services to all and 
> > sundry on the web.
> > 
> > There are far simpler ways to exchange data when you have control of both the client and 
> > the server. These other methods do not require you to set up a web server and publish a 
> > schema which then opens up your data to the whole world.  Take a look at a simple TCPIP 
> > client/server solution first.  Here's a simple one in VB .Net 
> > 
> > http://www.eggheadcafe.com/articles/20020323.asp
> > 
> > This could be easily modified to do the sort of thing you are after, with the Listener 
> > application doing most of the work.
> > 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 




From ebarro at verizon.net  Sun Aug 30 23:25:00 2009
From: ebarro at verizon.net (Eric Barro)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 21:25:00 -0700
Subject: [dba-VB] SPAM-LOW:  Re:  Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <4A9B0B7A.29443.1947931F@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>,
	<4A9AF65A.10563.18F51086@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>,
	<4A9AFABC.9000101@colbyconsulting.com>
	<4A9B0B7A.29443.1947931F@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
Message-ID: <83793773C208434D94153FDCDEAC4BB8@advancedinput.com>

Didn't the original spec indicate that the CSV file would be dropped into a
web location where the client machines could pick them up?

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 4:30 PM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SPAM-LOW: Re: Access data across the internet

The only reason it "goes away" is because web services use the standard HTTP
port 80 
which is open by default on most routers.   That means there is no
configuration needed on 
the client machines.  

But you will still need "IT" to configure the router and set up port
forwarding to point to the server hosting the web service.  Of course, this
is not an issue where you set up a web service on a public web server, but
that is not what you are trying to do - you want something hosted internally
which can access your internal file systems and databases and interface in a
controlled manner with other machines.

There's nothing to stop you from using the same port 80 for your own TCP/IP
Listener application. 

You can also any of the other "standard" ports which are likely to be open
on a router such as FTP (21), SMTP(25),  POP3(110) etc

I have a couple of such Listener applications which do the sort of things
you are after, but they are written in PB/Win - if you want to look at them
to get a better idea of oterh way you can do this, I will send the source to
you off line.


--
Stuart



On 30 Aug 2009 at 18:18, jwcolby wrote:

> Thanks Stuart.
> 
> I believe one of the implications of the service route was that the whole
TCP/IP address / port 
> thing goes away, IOW it can get through a firewall without having to get
the intervention of IT.
> 
> I am listening to all points of view.  Luckily I am in no hurry here, it
will be six months or more 
> before I need to solve this problem, or even have the requisite knowledge.
> 
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com
> 
> 
> Stuart McLachlan wrote:
> > WCF, SOAP, Web Services etc are necessary if you are exposing services
to all and 
> > sundry on the web.
> > 
> > There are far simpler ways to exchange data when you have control of
both the client and 
> > the server. These other methods do not require you to set up a web
server and publish a 
> > schema which then opens up your data to the whole world.  Take a look at
a simple TCPIP 
> > client/server solution first.  Here's a simple one in VB .Net 
> > 
> > http://www.eggheadcafe.com/articles/20020323.asp
> > 
> > This could be easily modified to do the sort of thing you are after,
with the Listener 
> > application doing most of the work.
> > 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 


_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com



From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg  Mon Aug 31 01:53:13 2009
From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 16:53:13 +1000
Subject: [dba-VB] SPAM-LOW:  Re:  Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <83793773C208434D94153FDCDEAC4BB8@advancedinput.com>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>,
	<4A9B0B7A.29443.1947931F@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>,
	<83793773C208434D94153FDCDEAC4BB8@advancedinput.com>
Message-ID: <4A9B7359.15314.1ADD54A1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>

No,

As I read it, John's original scenario was several client locations processing files locally with  
a shared directory structure in the main location. He was looking at ways to share the 
directory structure and move files to and from it over the internet. 

No web at all.

-- 
Stuart


On 30 Aug 2009 at 21:25, Eric Barro wrote:

> Didn't the original spec indicate that the CSV file would be dropped into a
> web location where the client machines could pick them up?
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan
> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 4:30 PM
> To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SPAM-LOW: Re: Access data across the internet
> 
> The only reason it "goes away" is because web services use the standard HTTP
> port 80 
> which is open by default on most routers.   That means there is no
> configuration needed on 
> the client machines.  
> 
> But you will still need "IT" to configure the router and set up port
> forwarding to point to the server hosting the web service.  Of course, this
> is not an issue where you set up a web service on a public web server, but
> that is not what you are trying to do - you want something hosted internally
> which can access your internal file systems and databases and interface in a
> controlled manner with other machines.
> 
> There's nothing to stop you from using the same port 80 for your own TCP/IP
> Listener application. 
> 
> You can also any of the other "standard" ports which are likely to be open
> on a router such as FTP (21), SMTP(25),  POP3(110) etc
> 
> I have a couple of such Listener applications which do the sort of things
> you are after, but they are written in PB/Win - if you want to look at them
> to get a better idea of oterh way you can do this, I will send the source to
> you off line.
> 
> 
> --
> Stuart
> 
> 
> 
> On 30 Aug 2009 at 18:18, jwcolby wrote:
> 
> > Thanks Stuart.
> > 
> > I believe one of the implications of the service route was that the whole
> TCP/IP address / port 
> > thing goes away, IOW it can get through a firewall without having to get
> the intervention of IT.
> > 
> > I am listening to all points of view.  Luckily I am in no hurry here, it
> will be six months or more 
> > before I need to solve this problem, or even have the requisite knowledge.
> > 
> > John W. Colby
> > www.ColbyConsulting.com
> > 
> > 
> > Stuart McLachlan wrote:
> > > WCF, SOAP, Web Services etc are necessary if you are exposing services
> to all and 
> > > sundry on the web.
> > > 
> > > There are far simpler ways to exchange data when you have control of
> both the client and 
> > > the server. These other methods do not require you to set up a web
> server and publish a 
> > > schema which then opens up your data to the whole world.  Take a look at
> a simple TCPIP 
> > > client/server solution first.  Here's a simple one in VB .Net 
> > > 
> > > http://www.eggheadcafe.com/articles/20020323.asp
> > > 
> > > This could be easily modified to do the sort of thing you are after,
> with the Listener 
> > > application doing most of the work.
> > > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > dba-VB mailing list
> > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> > http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> > 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 




From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Mon Aug 31 04:57:19 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 13:57:19 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <4dd71a0c0908301447s1c1fc75cw1eac8e9761f2a50@mail.gmail.com>
References: <sa9b0a54.021@cactus.dk>
	<4dd71a0c0908301447s1c1fc75cw1eac8e9761f2a50@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <006801ca2a21$6ed969f0$4c8c3dd0$@spb.ru>

Hi Doug,

You can read about/investigate Amazon Web Services (AWS):

http://aws.amazon.com/

The fact is that many businesses are built using AWS, and the number of such
businesses is only growing day by day...

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 1:48 AM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
ubject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet

Hi Gustav (and Shamil)

I've been following this discussion with some interest.  My impression of
web services is that they are basically for publishing information (like a
parts catalogue) which could be read and used by clients.  I gather that
this is not the whole picture.

I've spent several hours on the web recently trying to get more information;
however I have yet to stumble on a site which gives a clear explanation
and/or some practical examples.  Do you have any good references?

Thanks,

Doug Steele

On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 2:24 PM, Gustav Brock <Gustav at cactus.dk> wrote:

> Hi John
>
> I'll have to second Shamil. When I joined an early presentation of Windows
> Communication Foundation it was the first time I began understanding what
> web services are about - all other info had been bits and pieces, some
> working but none with the big picture. WCF is so well thought out that you
> can say "this time MS got it right".
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


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database 4382 (20090830) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru


 

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From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Mon Aug 31 04:57:19 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 13:57:19 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] How to Consume a Web Service (Request for Help, not urgent)
Message-ID: <006901ca2a21$702c01a0$508404e0$@spb.ru>

Hi All,

 

I'd be very grateful if anybody could go through the following
sample/workthrough using VS2008 SP1

 

"How to Consume a Web Service"

http://johnwsaundersiii.spaces.live.com/?_c11_BlogPart_BlogPart=blogview&_c=
BlogPart&partqs=amonth%3d5%26ayear%3d2009

(watch line wraps)

 

and publish for download/send me privately the sources you'll get. I can't
get this sample working on my system (something is still wrong with my
system setup), and I wanted to compare your sources with the ones I'm
getting here to find out how to solve this "nightmarish" issue.

 

If all will work well it should take several minutes to make the sample
working on your system assuming you have VS2008 SP1 and Windows SDK
installed.

 

Please do not try to look for workarounds if the above sample will not work
out of the box as described - looking for such workaround can take hours and
hours  (and solution depends on your system (current) context/previous
setups I believe) - you'll risk to lose your working day.

 

Solution/workaround should be simple, effective and generic - I still can't
find it nor by myself nor by intensive Googling/Binging.

 

Thank you.

 

--

Shamil

 

 

 



From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Mon Aug 31 04:57:19 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 13:57:19 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] SPAM-LOW:  Re:  Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <4A9B016D.7000709@colbyconsulting.com>
References: <sa9b0a54.021@cactus.dk> <4A9B016D.7000709@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <006e01ca2a21$7177bb80$54673280$@spb.ru>

Hi John,

Still I'd advised you to start with SOAP services, which work out of the
box...

If you start with WCF Web Services I do hope/wish you were luckier than
hundreds (and hundreds) of folks "fighting" with infamous:

"WCF Service reference to IIS-hosted WCF nightmares"
http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/wcf/thread/0db19bc8-2bc4-4306-
a124-65b80849c0e3/ 

which doesn't have a common solution AFAIK. Have I missed it for VS2008 SP1?

The solution depends, I believe, on "proper" setup sequence of several
components of your system, BTW, don't forget to setup proper Windows SDK
(7.0), which is needed to develop WCF Web Services.

If the following sample/workthrough will work well for you out of the box

"How to Consume a Web Service"
http://johnwsaundersiii.spaces.live.com/?_c11_BlogPart_BlogPart=blogview&_c=
BlogPart&partqs=amonth%3d5%26ayear%3d2009

you'll be a lucky guy.

It doesn't yet work here on my development PC, and WCF per se works well - I
have programmed WCF-based inter-process communication programs, some other
WCF samples I have got ready to use also worked OK but creation from scratch
in VS2008 SP1 of very simple WCF web service (as in the referred above
sample) - it doesn't work here yet...

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 2:47 AM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SPAM-LOW: Re: Access data across the internet

OK, I have a couple of books on the way on WCF.  Looks like light reading!

;)

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Gustav Brock wrote:
> Hi John
> 
> I'll have to second Shamil. When I joined an early presentation of Windows
Communication Foundation it was the first time I began understanding what
web services are about - all other info had been bits and pieces, some
working but none with the big picture. WCF is so well thought out that you
can say "this time MS got it right".
> 
> Also note, that the guy at the blog is not having an issue with WCF but
states that "I still need to get the WCF client to talk to this unusual
endpoint".
> Unfortunately, this is an example of how blogs can be a total waste of
time. This guy obviously knows what he talks about but - like Shamil - I
browsed the comments (before reading Shamil's message here on the same) only
to find them talking in East and West with no useful or educating info
except one - the same that Shamil has quoted previously.
> 
> For any other project than your current very simple one I would happily go
with WCF.
> 
> /gustav
> 
> 
>>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 30-08-2009 20:13 >>>
> Hi John,
> 
> OK.
> 
> <<<
> What I found daunting was the gobbledegook of terms and technologies being
> discussed.
> John, if I'd tell you - do not bother about this "gobbledegook" now would
> you accept my advice?
> I mean you do not need to know all that stuff until you'll really need it
-
> you can just start developing and releasing SOAP Web Services - it's not
> that complicated. 
> 
> I do share Ben Kloosterman's opinion: "The problem is not with WCF (or
Axis)
> (or SOAP) but with people who choose overly complicated scenarios"...
> 
> I called comments "junk" because most of them are not constructive, and
they
> do not help, even disturb beginner .NET developers to start developing and
> releasing Web Services - they disturb by creating wrong impression that
> developing Web Services using MS software is a very complicated task. And
it
> isn't.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> --
> Shamil
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 7:21 PM
> To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
> 
> Shamil,
> 
> I understand that only people who have problems write comments about the
problems they have.  I also 
> understand that if someone uses VS.Net to write both ends of the channel
then the probability of 
> problems drops dramatically.
> 
> I would not characterize such comments a "junk" however, I believe that
such problems are very real, 
> particularly when you are dealing with disparate technologies on either
end. The article itself was 
> found in the C# start page, and he was having problems using .Net to try
to talk to a service 
> created in some other technology (from the little I actually understood).
> 
> What I found daunting was the gobbledegook of terms and technologies being
discussed.  It certainly 
> appeared to me that the majority of these "junk" comments were .Net
developers trying to use .Net to 
> subscribe (if that is the correct phrase) to services that were created in
some other technology. 
> Who had to do so for business reasons, in their work.
> 
> John W. Colby
> www.ColbyConsulting.com 
> 
> 
> Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote:
>> Hi John,
>>
>> I did read comments from the ref you quoted here - they are a usual
"junk"
> -
>> I mean real developers who use MS software do not waste time on writing
>> comments how bad this MS software is :) I can assure you (as many other
>> developers here) it's not that bad as you can find reading all that "junk
>> comments".
>>
>> BTW, I liked this comment, which I classify as very helpful, and coming
> from
>> experienced developer (as I also am BTW :)O:
>>
>> <<<<<<<<<<
>> Ben Kloosterman, 21 June 2009, 20:38:34 (Pacific Standard Time,
UTC-08:00)
>>
>> The problem is not with WCF (or Axis) but with people who choose overly
>> complicated scenarios. WCF is far superior to Axis though because
Services
>> framework allow things people use them. 
>>
>> eg 
>> - Security 95% of the time no transport security/encryption is
sufficient.
>> - Use custom headers dont fudge it like the article , this method is very
>> common .
>> - Use complicated types , inheritcance , interfaces , collections etc ..
>> KISS and use the DTO pattern. ( DOnt pollute your business domain with
the
>> need to tranport it)
>>
>> The big advantage REST has is you cant do the fancy things but everything
>> you can do with REST you can do with WCF and keep it or even more simple.

>>
>> Ben
>>
>> And BTW, my current proposal is to use SOAP (ASP.NET 2.0) Web Services
for
>> starters - they are easier to start with = you can create such Web
> Services
>> within VS2008. Later on you can convert them to WCF/REST web services -
>> you'll just need to change interface/fa?ade in most of the cases.
>>
>> And a sample Web Service I created here is exactly a SOAP web service:
>>
>> http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/MSAccess/MSAccessWebService.asmx 
>>
>> You can find comments on its interface in P.S. of this message. And you
> can
>> consume this web service using sample code I provided in my previous
>> postings within this thread. (All the C# code for this Web Service
> including
>> comments is about 270+ code lines long - and that's all you have to write
> -
>> no need to code manually .wsdl etc. )
>>
>> Some of my experience with Web Services:
>>
>> 1) One of my overseas customers (WA) did use web service running on my
>> hosting site (Moscow, Russia, and it runs within common application pool)
>> for several months. And this web service was queried dozen times within a
>> second from his programs running on 5+ computers from his LAN there.
> Result:
>> no any major trouble at all.
>>
>> 2) Another customer does use web service developed here to synchronize
>> two-way "field-force automation" local MS SQL Express databases with
> central
>> MS SQL database running behind large ASP.NET application. No problem.
>>
>> Etc.
>>
>> Recap: Stop reading "junk comments", start acting.
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> --
>> Shamil
> 
> 





From Gustav at cactus.dk  Mon Aug 31 07:05:23 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 14:05:23 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
Message-ID: <sa9bd8b7.033@cactus.dk>

Hi Stuart and John

Except that the main location could be placed in "the cloud":

http://www.jungledisk.com/desktop/how.aspx 

This service - which among other things mimics a drive letter - uses Amazon as the storage. 

The Amazon storage can, of course, be accessed directly, for example via the S3 service:

http://aws.amazon.com/s3/ 

Also: 
<quote>
LitS3 is a library written in C# that provides comprehensive and straightforward access to Amazon S3 for .NET developers. 
</quote>

http://code.google.com/p/lits3/ 

Fascinating tiny amount of code. Unfortunately I haven't had the time to play with even though we do have an Amazon account up and running.

/gustav


>>> "Stuart McLachlan" <stuart at lexacorp.com.pg> 31-08-2009 08:53 >>>
No,

As I read it, John's original scenario was several client locations processing files locally with  
a shared directory structure in the main location. He was looking at ways to share the 
directory structure and move files to and from it over the internet. 

No web at all.

-- 
Stuart


On 30 Aug 2009 at 21:25, Eric Barro wrote:

> Didn't the original spec indicate that the CSV file would be dropped into a
> web location where the client machines could pick them up?
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan
> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 4:30 PM
> To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SPAM-LOW: Re: Access data across the internet
> 
> The only reason it "goes away" is because web services use the standard HTTP port 80 
> which is open by default on most routers.   That means there is no configuration needed on 
> the client machines.  
> 
> But you will still need "IT" to configure the router and set up port
> forwarding to point to the server hosting the web service.  Of course, this
> is not an issue where you set up a web service on a public web server, but
> that is not what you are trying to do - you want something hosted internally
> which can access your internal file systems and databases and interface in a
> controlled manner with other machines.
> 
> There's nothing to stop you from using the same port 80 for your own TCP/IP
> Listener application. 
> 
> You can also any of the other "standard" ports which are likely to be open
> on a router such as FTP (21), SMTP(25),  POP3(110) etc
> 
> I have a couple of such Listener applications which do the sort of things
> you are after, but they are written in PB/Win - if you want to look at them
> to get a better idea of oterh way you can do this, I will send the source to
> you off line.
> 
> 
> --
> Stuart
> 
> 
> 
> On 30 Aug 2009 at 18:18, jwcolby wrote:
> 
> > Thanks Stuart.
> > 
> > I believe one of the implications of the service route was that the whole TCP/IP address / port 
> > thing goes away, IOW it can get through a firewall without having to get the intervention of IT.
> > 
> > I am listening to all points of view.  Luckily I am in no hurry here, it will be six months or more 
> > before I need to solve this problem, or even have the requisite knowledge.
> > 
> > John W. Colby
> > www.ColbyConsulting.com 




From Gustav at cactus.dk  Mon Aug 31 07:06:20 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 14:06:20 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
Message-ID: <sa9bd8f3.034@cactus.dk>

Hi Doug

If you ask for an example of a public service, an example is here - from the EU to provide validation of VAT registration of companies of the EU:

http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/vies/api/checkVatPort?wsdl

It is very simple as no user credentials are requested, thus it should work with most clients.

/gustav


>>> dbdoug at gmail.com 30-08-2009 23:47 >>>
Hi Gustav (and Shamil)

I've been following this discussion with some interest.  My impression of
web services is that they are basically for publishing information (like a
parts catalogue) which could be read and used by clients.  I gather that
this is not the whole picture.

I've spent several hours on the web recently trying to get more information;
however I have yet to stumble on a site which gives a clear explanation
and/or some practical examples.  Do you have any good references?

Thanks,

Doug Steele




From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com  Mon Aug 31 07:32:42 2009
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 08:32:42 -0400
Subject: [dba-VB] SPAM-LOW:  Re:  Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <83793773C208434D94153FDCDEAC4BB8@advancedinput.com>
References: <4A97D776.8030800@colbyconsulting.com>,
	<4A9AF65A.10563.18F51086@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>,
	<4A9AFABC.9000101@colbyconsulting.com>	<4A9B0B7A.29443.1947931F@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>
	<83793773C208434D94153FDCDEAC4BB8@advancedinput.com>
Message-ID: <4A9BC2EA.5050005@colbyconsulting.com>

The system already exists and works.  What happens is that there are two scanners which are used to 
turn documents into tables using Omnipage.  Those CSV files are dropped into a well defined 
directory structure on a disk drive "somewhere".  ATM everything is done locally, inside of a 
network in a SOHO.

So right now... a user scans a document into Omnipage.  Inside of Omnipage she uses her mouse to 
surround (swipe) areas of the document that is data that is going into a table.  Omnipage then turns 
the swiped areas into a CSV file, which the user then stores to a specific location.  These are 
invoices which go into a state/program/subprogram kind of structure.

As soon as the document is on the hard disk as a csv, the application opens the CSV and loads it 
into a temp table which has a field1, field2, ... field12 format.  Each field maps to a named field 
in another table but at this level the field mapping is not done.

A processes occurs which attempts to fix OCR errors.  The scanner may decide that an l is a one or 
vice versa, a zero is an oh. Stuff like that.  So the user runs the process to fix OCR errors.  Once 
the OCR errors are fixed the application maps the field1 ... fields in the temp table into the 
correct fields in a destination table, and the user then looks at the data.  The end objective is to 
perform an analysis on an invoice looking for errors.  Big money involved, thousands or millions of 
dollars, and the invoices come from organizations who don't necessarily use high tech tools to 
generate the invoices, so lots of errors are found.

Once the analysis is done the application stores the data table back out to a specific location, in 
a fixed width US Government standard format.  Eventually the data is shipped back to the client.

This thing is dead simple for you and I as experienced developers.  A directory structure, an 
import, an OCR correction process, a set of mapping queries to move raw data to the invoice table. 
Once the user finishes the analysis, an export back out to a destination folder.

What is happening now is that the client wants to bring his daughters in as employees, but have them 
work from home.  He already has an employee in another state doing some "dispute resolution" work 
for him.  So he wants a central server in his home office where all the documents go.  His daughters 
will work on the application but need may need to access document CSV files that were scanned and 
are physically located in another state.  And of course dump the processed file back to a server in 
another state.

My solution to that need was to use Hamachi to set up a VPN network that everybody joins.  The 
server is on it, each remote user is on it.  The VPN network exposes a mapped directory, which is 
mapped to X:.  That X: now contains that directory structure where all files are stored.  So to the 
user, it appears that they have a local drive X: but that drive is actually a directory on a server 
several states away.

The application simply pulls the CSV files from the X: drive and writes the result files back to the 
X: drive.  The application already pulls documents from a mapped drive, now the drive just happens 
to map to a server in another state.  No change to the APP.

In order to test, I have already done this mapping the client's server as my X: drive, and also 
setting up a mapped folder on my server, remoting in and running the application where my shared 
drive is mapped to the X: drive on his system.  It definitely works.

The speed was not great (30 seconds for the biggest file) when working on files on the client's 
server, a PIII 500mhz 256m RAM Windows XP.

OTOH it was about 9 seconds when running the application on that remote server and pulling the data 
off of my server.

It was about 5 seconds running completely local on his end, so the trip over the internet "cost" 
about 4 seconds when talking to a modern server.

So we are discussing replacing a working application, a software VPN - Hamachi - and a mapped drive, 
with a web service that reads and writes files to a server.  The service would need to run on the 
server I assume, which means getting that server running IIS.  BTW the client purchased a new DELL 
box with XP installed to act as the server.  I would have to get IIS running, write the services to 
read and write files, and write something for the existing application to connect to the services to 
perform the reads and writes.  I assume that I would have to read the files to a local drive and 
then run the import as I do now (this is currently Access).  Write the files locally and then send 
them via the service back to the server.

Again, I am rewriting this application to C#.  In C# this whole thing might very well make sense, 
since I could just read the stream from the web service and place the results directly into a table. 
  Using the current Access App I would have to do some modifications to a working app to interface 
to the service.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Eric Barro wrote:
> Didn't the original spec indicate that the CSV file would be dropped into a
> web location where the client machines could pick them up?
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan
> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 4:30 PM
> To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] SPAM-LOW: Re: Access data across the internet
> 
> The only reason it "goes away" is because web services use the standard HTTP
> port 80 
> which is open by default on most routers.   That means there is no
> configuration needed on 
> the client machines.  
> 
> But you will still need "IT" to configure the router and set up port
> forwarding to point to the server hosting the web service.  Of course, this
> is not an issue where you set up a web service on a public web server, but
> that is not what you are trying to do - you want something hosted internally
> which can access your internal file systems and databases and interface in a
> controlled manner with other machines.
> 
> There's nothing to stop you from using the same port 80 for your own TCP/IP
> Listener application. 
> 
> You can also any of the other "standard" ports which are likely to be open
> on a router such as FTP (21), SMTP(25),  POP3(110) etc
> 
> I have a couple of such Listener applications which do the sort of things
> you are after, but they are written in PB/Win - if you want to look at them
> to get a better idea of oterh way you can do this, I will send the source to
> you off line.
> 
> 
> --
> Stuart
> 
> 
> 
> On 30 Aug 2009 at 18:18, jwcolby wrote:
> 
>> Thanks Stuart.
>>
>> I believe one of the implications of the service route was that the whole
> TCP/IP address / port 
>> thing goes away, IOW it can get through a firewall without having to get
> the intervention of IT.
>> I am listening to all points of view.  Luckily I am in no hurry here, it
> will be six months or more 
>> before I need to solve this problem, or even have the requisite knowledge.
>>
>> John W. Colby
>> www.ColbyConsulting.com
>>
>>
>> Stuart McLachlan wrote:
>>> WCF, SOAP, Web Services etc are necessary if you are exposing services
> to all and 
>>> sundry on the web.
>>>
>>> There are far simpler ways to exchange data when you have control of
> both the client and 
>>> the server. These other methods do not require you to set up a web
> server and publish a 
>>> schema which then opens up your data to the whole world.  Take a look at
> a simple TCPIP 
>>> client/server solution first.  Here's a simple one in VB .Net 
>>>
>>> http://www.eggheadcafe.com/articles/20020323.asp
>>>
>>> This could be easily modified to do the sort of thing you are after,
> with the Listener 
>>> application doing most of the work.
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> dba-VB mailing list
>> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
>> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
>>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dba-VB mailing list
> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
> http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> 
> 


From Gustav at cactus.dk  Mon Aug 31 12:21:15 2009
From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 19:21:15 +0200
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet. Now: Look up EU	VAT
	No.
Message-ID: <sa9c22be.048@cactus.dk>

Hi Doug et al

I just tested this with the code referred to by Shamil:

"How to Consume a Web Service"

http://johnwsaundersiii.spaces.live.com/?_c11_BlogPart_BlogPart=blogview&_c=BlogPart&partqs=amonth%3d5%26ayear%3d2009

I created another service reference, ServiceEuViesCheckReference, and ran this code:

            using (var svc = new ServiceEuViesCheckReference.checkVatPortTypeClient())
            {
                string countryCode = "DK";
                string vatNumber = "12002696";
                bool valid = false;
                string name = String.Empty;
                string address = String.Empty;
                DateTime responseDate = svc.checkVat(
                    ref countryCode, ref vatNumber,
                    out valid, out name, out address);
                Console.WriteLine(responseDate.ToShortDateString());
                Console.WriteLine(valid.ToString());
                Console.WriteLine(name);
                Console.WriteLine(address);
                Console.Write("Press a key");
                Console.ReadLine();
            }

This returns correctly:

---
31-08-2009
True
CACTUS DATA APS
KALKBR?NDERIL?BSKAJ 4A

2100 K?BENHAVN ?
Press a key
---

This is fun!
Response time is about 1 second.

/gustav


>>> Gustav at cactus.dk 31-08-2009 14:06 >>>
Hi Doug

If you ask for an example of a public service, an example is here - from the EU to provide validation of VAT registration of companies of the EU:

http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/vies/api/checkVatPort?wsdl 

It is very simple as no user credentials are requested, thus it should work with most clients.

/gustav


>>> dbdoug at gmail.com 30-08-2009 23:47 >>>
Hi Gustav (and Shamil)

I've been following this discussion with some interest.  My impression of
web services is that they are basically for publishing information (like a
parts catalogue) which could be read and used by clients.  I gather that
this is not the whole picture.

I've spent several hours on the web recently trying to get more information;
however I have yet to stumble on a site which gives a clear explanation
and/or some practical examples.  Do you have any good references?

Thanks,

Doug Steele




From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Mon Aug 31 12:29:26 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 21:29:26 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] How to Consume a Web Service (Request for Help,
	not urgent)
In-Reply-To: <006901ca2a21$702c01a0$508404e0$@spb.ru>
References: <006901ca2a21$702c01a0$508404e0$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <00a301ca2a60$97e5b080$c7b11180$@spb.ru>

Hi All,

I have got a helping hand from Mike, Gustav and Doug who happened to be
"Lucky Guys" (thank you guys!) - they have referred below sample working
well "out of the box".

This sample solution (in Mike's interpretation) is posted here:

http://northwind.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=26600#D
ownloadId=81391  (~65KB)

It can be used as a test to see if your system is "WCF Web Services
Development Ready".

It has now WCF web service reference set OK (as this reference setting
happened on Mike's VS2008) but when I run it I'm getting runtime error:

"The communication object, System.ServiceModel.Channels.ServiceChannel,
cannot be used for communication because it is in the Faulted state."

I'm currently "digging further" trying to make this sample working on my
system - here is some information I'm looking through:

How to make sure you don't get WCF Faulted State Exception?
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/530731/how-to-make-sure-you-dont-get-wcf-
faulted-state-exception 

Avoiding Problems with the Using Statement
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa355056.aspx 

I will inform you on my further progress (if any).

Thank you for your help.

--
Shamil

P.S. I haven't been "fighting" with this issue all the working day through,
I was already in swimming pool with my kid etc. - yet this issue is one of
the representative cases what make software development so "heavy" sometimes
- the best/quickest solutions for such issues seems to be clean reinstalls
of the systems, and having just latest release versions of MS software on
that systems: still have to find time/resources to prepare something like
that - this current case could be the "last drop"...


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil
Salakhetdinov
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 1:57 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: [dba-VB] How to Consume a Web Service (Request for Help, not
urgent)

Hi All,

 

I'd be very grateful if anybody could go through the following
sample/workthrough using VS2008 SP1

 

"How to Consume a Web Service"

http://johnwsaundersiii.spaces.live.com/?_c11_BlogPart_BlogPart=blogview&_c=
BlogPart&partqs=amonth%3d5%26ayear%3d2009

(watch line wraps)

 

and publish for download/send me privately the sources you'll get. I can't
get this sample working on my system (something is still wrong with my
system setup), and I wanted to compare your sources with the ones I'm
getting here to find out how to solve this "nightmarish" issue.

 

If all will work well it should take several minutes to make the sample
working on your system assuming you have VS2008 SP1 and Windows SDK
installed.

 

Please do not try to look for workarounds if the above sample will not work
out of the box as described - looking for such workaround can take hours and
hours  (and solution depends on your system (current) context/previous
setups I believe) - you'll risk to lose your working day.

 

Solution/workaround should be simple, effective and generic - I still can't
find it nor by myself nor by intensive Googling/Binging.

 

Thank you.

 

--

Shamil

 

 

 

_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


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database 4383 (20090831) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

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From dbdoug at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 12:40:47 2009
From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 10:40:47 -0700
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet. Now: Look up EU VAT
	No.
In-Reply-To: <sa9c22be.048@cactus.dk>
References: <sa9c22be.048@cactus.dk>
Message-ID: <4dd71a0c0908311040v43addfc1v87423638d5e799e3@mail.gmail.com>

That's too easy!  Takes about a second here (west coast of Canada).

Doug

On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 10:21 AM, Gustav Brock <Gustav at cactus.dk> wrote:

> Hi Doug et al
>
> I created another service reference, ServiceEuViesCheckReference, and ran
> this code:
>
>            using (var svc = new
> ServiceEuViesCheckReference.checkVatPortTypeClient())
>            {
>                string countryCode = "DK";
>                string vatNumber = "12002696";
>                bool valid = false;
>                string name = String.Empty;
>                string address = String.Empty;
>                DateTime responseDate = svc.checkVat(
>                    ref countryCode, ref vatNumber,
>                    out valid, out name, out address);
>                Console.WriteLine(responseDate.ToShortDateString());
>                Console.WriteLine(valid.ToString());
>                Console.WriteLine(name);
>                Console.WriteLine(address);
>                Console.Write("Press a key");
>                Console.ReadLine();
>            }
>
> This returns correctly:
>
> ---
> 31-08-2009
> True
> CACTUS DATA APS
> KALKBR?NDERIL?BSKAJ 4A
>
> 2100 K?BENHAVN ?
> Press a key
> ---
>
> This is fun!
> Response time is about 1 second.
>
>


From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Mon Aug 31 12:54:23 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 21:54:23 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet. Now: Look up EU
	VAT	No.
In-Reply-To: <4dd71a0c0908311040v43addfc1v87423638d5e799e3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <sa9c22be.048@cactus.dk>
	<4dd71a0c0908311040v43addfc1v87423638d5e799e3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00a901ca2a64$142e3830$3c8aa890$@spb.ru>

<<<
That's too easy!  
>>>
Yes, C# (VB.NET) development is usually a way easier than VB6/VBA - I mean
that! :)
Of course one need some time to get on speed with .NET Framework, C# and/or
VB.NET...

Well, it may happen you'll get some cases as with WCF Web Services and my
system but if you compare how much such cases did you have with
VB6/VBA/"DLL-Hell" then you'll definitely love .NET Framework/C#/VB.NET
development...

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 9:41 PM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet. Now: Look up EU VAT
No.

That's too easy!  Takes about a second here (west coast of Canada).

Doug

On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 10:21 AM, Gustav Brock <Gustav at cactus.dk> wrote:

> Hi Doug et al
>
> I created another service reference, ServiceEuViesCheckReference, and ran
> this code:
>
>            using (var svc = new
> ServiceEuViesCheckReference.checkVatPortTypeClient())
>            {
>                string countryCode = "DK";
>                string vatNumber = "12002696";
>                bool valid = false;
>                string name = String.Empty;
>                string address = String.Empty;
>                DateTime responseDate = svc.checkVat(
>                    ref countryCode, ref vatNumber,
>                    out valid, out name, out address);
>                Console.WriteLine(responseDate.ToShortDateString());
>                Console.WriteLine(valid.ToString());
>                Console.WriteLine(name);
>                Console.WriteLine(address);
>                Console.Write("Press a key");
>                Console.ReadLine();
>            }
>
> This returns correctly:
>
> ---
> 31-08-2009
> True
> CACTUS DATA APS
> KALKBR?NDERIL?BSKAJ 4A
>
> 2100 K?BENHAVN ?
> Press a key
> ---
>
> This is fun!
> Response time is about 1 second.
>
>
_______________________________________________
dba-VB mailing list
dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com
http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb
http://www.databaseadvisors.com


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database 4384 (20090831) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.esetnod32.ru


 

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From DWUTKA at Marlow.com  Mon Aug 31 14:55:53 2009
From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 14:55:53 -0500
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <4A9ACA3D.3040206@colbyconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <A5615CBECEC42E4791D7A7C724E1E9B202447AFA@MIEXCH.Marlow.ii-vi.net>

Hey JC, just going to chime in a bit.  I've developed both web based
apps, and apps that use a VPN connection.

There are advantages to both.  One of the primary advantages of a web
interface, however, is that you are centralizing your processing.  And
you are only sending 'snapshots' of your interface back and forth.

If what you have built works fine over a standard web connection and a
VPN, I'd keep it the way you have it.  If it gets sluggish, then a web
interface would probably speed things up quite a bit.

Drew

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 1:52 PM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet

Shamil,

I understand and mostly agree with your opinions.  Of course I will
accept your advice, start small, 
and not worry about the gobbledygook..

 > I do share Ben Kloosterman's opinion: "The problem is not with WCF
(or Axis) (or SOAP) but with 
people who choose overly complicated scenarios"...

I have to smile because you are recommending soap web services, to
someone just coming up to speed 
on C# (taking a beginners class!) to replace a dead simple to implement
software VPN and a shared 
directory!

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com

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From DWUTKA at Marlow.com  Mon Aug 31 17:13:52 2009
From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 17:13:52 -0500
Subject: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet
In-Reply-To: <4dd71a0c0908301447s1c1fc75cw1eac8e9761f2a50@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A5615CBECEC42E4791D7A7C724E1E9B202447AFF@MIEXCH.Marlow.ii-vi.net>

Not the whole picture at all.  

I've always recommended classic asp, to learn some of the ins and outs
of web programming.  There really are three types of web programming.  

Server side (asp, asp.net (sort of), php, etc.).  Server side code is
the guts of your system.  This is where all of your business logic would
be, and this also determines what the end user sees.

Client Side (javascript, java, VBScript, ASP.Net etc).  Client side
scripting is code that will manipulate the page the user has received,
from their computer (so 'disconnected' from the system).  The exception
is ASP.Net.  ASP.Net combines server side and client side with a mix of
code, (automated by ASP.Net).  An example would be a button click.  In a
VBA situation, you can write code behind the OnClick event of a button,
and have that code do whatever you want.  In classic asp, it can
'create' the button, even create client side code, but the asp code
itself is unaware of when the button is pressed.  With ASP.Net, you get
an OnClick event, so it looks like it's something that runs on the
server, but the reality is that ASP.Net is using client side code to
interact with the server.

Formatting code (HTML, Flash, etc.).  How your web page looks is going
to be based on the code used to display your system in a browser.  HTML
is it's own beast, but really not too difficult to get the hang of.

I recommend playing around with classic ASP and HTML, and stay away from
client side scripting initially.  You can build very complex (and well
running) systems with just those two.  ASP.Net and/or the addition of
client side scripting can make certain things easier for the user (but a
little more difficult on the complexity of the code (client side
scripting is notorious for being picky about browsers).

ASP.Net is a VERY powerful tool, but it uses an internally constructed
Client/server scripting combination.  Which gives you TONS of abilities
because of this, but it also comes with a lot of consequences. 

To learn ASP classic, it's just five root objects, with VBScripting.

Drew



-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 4:48 PM
To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access data across the internet

Hi Gustav (and Shamil)

I've been following this discussion with some interest.  My impression
of
web services is that they are basically for publishing information (like
a
parts catalogue) which could be read and used by clients.  I gather that
this is not the whole picture.

I've spent several hours on the web recently trying to get more
information;
however I have yet to stumble on a site which gives a clear explanation
and/or some practical examples.  Do you have any good references?

Thanks,

Doug Steele

On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 2:24 PM, Gustav Brock <Gustav at cactus.dk> wrote:

> Hi John
>
> I'll have to second Shamil. When I joined an early presentation of
Windows
> Communication Foundation it was the first time I began understanding
what
> web services are about - all other info had been bits and pieces, some
> working but none with the big picture. WCF is so well thought out that
you
> can say "this time MS got it right".
>
>
>
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From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru  Mon Aug 31 17:28:49 2009
From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 02:28:49 +0400
Subject: [dba-VB] How to Consume a Web Service (Request for Help,
	not urgent)
In-Reply-To: <00a301ca2a60$97e5b080$c7b11180$@spb.ru>
References: <006901ca2a21$702c01a0$508404e0$@spb.ru>
	<00a301ca2a60$97e5b080$c7b11180$@spb.ru>
Message-ID: <00c601ca2a8a$6c0c7690$442563b0$@spb.ru>

Hi All,

I have finally got the following runtime error messages:

<<<
Unable to connect to the remote server
Could not connect to http://localhost:59057/Service1.svc. 
TCP error code 10061:
No connection could be made because the target machine actively refused it 
127.0.0.1:59057.
>>>

And I'm not working with any remote servers here - this is just one system
I'm testing on/working with.

I have tried to suppress firewall completely, I have tried to open 59057
port - no luck...

The issue (they tell somewhere) could be also that this machine has several
NICs - usual cable and wireless etc.

Googling/Binging didn't give any clues to solve the issue effectively.

I'm leaving it for now for the "better times"...

I have "Pro WCF, Practical Microsoft SOA Implementation" book - I should
probably read it very carefully through to understand every bit in WCF
configuration and functioning... (BTW, I didn't need to read any books and
almost no any docs to implement several SOAP (.asmx) ASP.NET Web Services,
which work successfully in production for several years, and they work well
on this my system I'm currently "struggling with very basic WCF Web Service"
- it could be a bad day here also today...)

Still I think that modern MS technologies are great and easy to use :)

Thank you for your help.

--
Shamil


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil
Salakhetdinov
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 9:29 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] How to Consume a Web Service (Request for Help, not
urgent)

Hi All,

I have got a helping hand from Mike, Gustav and Doug who happened to be
"Lucky Guys" (thank you guys!) - they have referred below sample working
well "out of the box".

This sample solution (in Mike's interpretation) is posted here:

http://northwind.codeplex.com/Release/ProjectReleases.aspx?ReleaseId=26600#D
ownloadId=81391  (~65KB)

It can be used as a test to see if your system is "WCF Web Services
Development Ready".

It has now WCF web service reference set OK (as this reference setting
happened on Mike's VS2008) but when I run it I'm getting runtime error:

"The communication object, System.ServiceModel.Channels.ServiceChannel,
cannot be used for communication because it is in the Faulted state."

I'm currently "digging further" trying to make this sample working on my
system - here is some information I'm looking through:

How to make sure you don't get WCF Faulted State Exception?
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/530731/how-to-make-sure-you-dont-get-wcf-
faulted-state-exception 

Avoiding Problems with the Using Statement
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa355056.aspx 

I will inform you on my further progress (if any).

Thank you for your help.

--
Shamil

P.S. I haven't been "fighting" with this issue all the working day through,
I was already in swimming pool with my kid etc. - yet this issue is one of
the representative cases what make software development so "heavy" sometimes
- the best/quickest solutions for such issues seems to be clean reinstalls
of the systems, and having just latest release versions of MS software on
that systems: still have to find time/resources to prepare something like
that - this current case could be the "last drop"...


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil
Salakhetdinov
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 1:57 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: [dba-VB] How to Consume a Web Service (Request for Help, not
urgent)

Hi All,

 

I'd be very grateful if anybody could go through the following
sample/workthrough using VS2008 SP1

 

"How to Consume a Web Service"

http://johnwsaundersiii.spaces.live.com/?_c11_BlogPart_BlogPart=blogview&_c=
BlogPart&partqs=amonth%3d5%26ayear%3d2009

(watch line wraps)

 

and publish for download/send me privately the sources you'll get. I can't
get this sample working on my system (something is still wrong with my
system setup), and I wanted to compare your sources with the ones I'm
getting here to find out how to solve this "nightmarish" issue.

 

If all will work well it should take several minutes to make the sample
working on your system assuming you have VS2008 SP1 and Windows SDK
installed.

 

Please do not try to look for workarounds if the above sample will not work
out of the box as described - looking for such workaround can take hours and
hours  (and solution depends on your system (current) context/previous
setups I believe) - you'll risk to lose your working day.

 

Solution/workaround should be simple, effective and generic - I still can't
find it nor by myself nor by intensive Googling/Binging.

 

Thank you.

 

--

Shamil

 

 


 

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