Shamil Salakhetdinov
shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru
Fri Aug 21 06:18:59 CDT 2009
Hi Gustav, Yes, it takes "close to zero efforts" (~1 minute) to have a "web application" for this ADO.NET entity model http://shamils-4.hosting.parking.ru/temp/model.jpg which in turn was generated from MS SQL 2005 database. <<< ...this technique has its uses but app development is not one of these... >>> Gustav, let me disagree with that your statement. First of all because (sample) and lookup data entry/edit is in fact part of our everyday real life practice of application development. Second, because Dynamic Data Entity Web Applications (DDEWA) do help developers to verify their data modeling decisions by "effortlessly" giving "working models" in hands of (power-)users, and when users/developers find there are some mistakes in those decisions then DDEWA help to quickly fix those mistakes (as you can see from referred here video you have to just redeploy your corrected db and corresponding .edmx file and then refresh your browser - and you'll get the new version "up & running". This practice of verifying data modeling decisions in real life environment is also our everyday practice but it usually takes much more efforts when done without DDEWA. Third, because as I noted you can prepare within DDEWA ready to use in real apps "code blocks" (.ascx controls etc.) while "playing with" DDEWA (again as you can see no need to rebuild/restart the application - just refresh your browser - well, that is a consequence of ASP.NET technology used for DDEWA) Fourth, as we talked here before, ADO.NET Entity Data Model will allow in the (near) future to generate actual database models from ADO.NET Entity models - wouldn't that become soon our everyday development practice? (Imagine you start from use cases/user stories, develop customs classes and business functionality based on ADO.NET Entity objects, develop unit tests, then generate database model, develop integration tests, generate/customize application interface... - and you're done. (of course I'm simplifying here the real picture but IMO mainstream direction is presented correctly?)) Fifth, as we can see DDEWA user interface is generated from ADO.NET Entity Model and this model (which is currently in the referred above case is simply generated from database model) can be made having "Super-Entities" modeling user interfaces' underplaying data, these "Super-Entities" can have relations used by DDEWA to navigate between them... - IOW this is a way to simulate real life apps user interfaces and navigation, and then "just add" a mapping from "Super-Entities" to database entities... ... DDEWA looks here very challenging and in the same time helpful to our everyday development practices, not a "silver bullet" of course as we're getting more and more complicated business tasks to automate but they (DDEWA) promise to get out "yet another routine everyday work" from the shoulders of developers... Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. The idea of DDEWA to generate user interface doesn't look original - we have seen many "wizard tools" like that (I have even participated in developing tools like that for different platforms, did you?) - but implementation of this idea by MS folks and the ways to (re-)use this implementation for real life apps development look very powerful, useful and challenging from here. My five stars (*****) to MS DDEWA technology developers. -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 2:27 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications Hi Shamil and Charlotte I watched that video - some challenge due to the awful soundtrack - and my impression is that this dynamic data entities web is useful only for creating an interface to the complete table schema - which you hardly never use (I haven't) except for the example Shamil describes where you wish to present the full schema as well as the data content and even offer to edit this at close to zero efforts. I could imagine some kind of monitoring or admin/techie interface built this way. For any other purpose a lot of customizing is needed which - though quite powerful, so it seems - for a decent app will take longer than building the app from scratch I guess. So - as I see it - this technique has its uses but app development is not on of these. /gustav >>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 21-08-2009 09:57 >>> Hi Charlotte -- Thank you for your information. As I noted I currently do not plan to use dynamic data entities web applications in production but only to verify the data model design, to give to customers/users "working model" of some of their business areas, to prepare lookup/sample/test data: I found it very useful - I have just developed rather complicated data model for my customer project, clicked several times my mouse, made a few selections, typed a few chars - and voila' I can enter data, navigate all tables etc. Would that be possible to get known from your project manager what are the causes of their warnings about dynamic data entities? - I think that would be very useful for everybody here to know about their experience to not "step on rakes" as we say here. BTW, customization features provided by dynamic data entities web applications are also rather useful to implement something like "working, real life environment simulating specification": I have got only glanced those customization features and I have found they can be used at least to: - develop/simulate/test some kinds of (simple) business rules/checks used during data entry/edit; - develop almost ready to use in ASP.NET production environment ASP.NET custom controls. There should be more useful features I'm quite sure. And once again what is very important is that you can give "working model" for your customers/users almost immediately after/during the talks with them, they can play with it, they can get "instant fixes" for it etc. I have checked and AFAIS ADO.NET Entity Data Model can be quickly regenerated within VS2008 when source DB changes, and such regeneration preserves custom edits of ADO.NET Entity Data Model objects. Good stuff. Only positive experience so far. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 2:37 AM To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues. Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications Our project manager warned us about dynamic data entities and the MS entity model. No personal experience and he isn't a developer, so he's talking about his previous job. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 9:06 AM To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.' Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications Hi Gustav, VS2008 SP1: 1. Solution: Add: New Project -> Dynamic Data Entities Web Application... 2. Project: Add: New Item -> ADO.NET Entity Data Model The next steps are rather obvious, and Global.asax's comments give the clue how to make the application to work. But I can't get some more information on this type of projects. Yes, I can investigate them but I'd prefer to have some ready to use descriptions. Can't find them online on MSDN.... I have just got this link, which looks interesting: http://channel9.msdn.com/posts/matthijs/Fastest-To-Market-RAD-Web-Applicatio ns-with-ASPNET-Dynamic-Data-and-Entity-Framework/ It's a 1+ hour video... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 7:44 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications Hi Shamil No, not me. But how did you get started on this having no info?? /gustav >>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 20-08-2009 17:38 >>> Hi All, I'm currently working on a project where I use Dynamic Data Entities Web Applications - DDEWA-(VS2008 SP1). I have tried to search Google and Bing to find some information on DDEWA but failed. Do you have any useful links on DDEWA? Thank you. -- Shamil