[dba-VB] Access FE --> VB: Conversion/Rewrite Time?

Shamil Salakhetdinov shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru
Fri Oct 16 15:40:12 CDT 2009


Hi Dan,

OK, that sounds good - a good candidate application for automated conversion
I mean :)

50KB of code isn't that much to clean-up after automated conversion but it's
important to know what this code does? For example, once in the very
beginning of my .NET development practice I have got converted advanced MS
Excel VB6 COM add-in with about 10,000-15,000(?) code lines into VB.NET COM
add-in - conversion of VB6 code into VB.NET is a built-in feature of Visual
Studio but after that conversion I have spent about three days to make the
converted code up & running, and I have got all that add-in functionality
working OK.
 
That add-in code didn't use database and if your code is like that - i.e. it
is mainly utility/business layer functionality without that much db
communication and without a lot of built-in SQL then clean-up of 50KB of
code lines after automatic conversion could be done in max. 15 days.

You can try to use the tools you mentioned with Northwind db - and I (and
maybe somebody else also here) can have a look on the results of automatic
conversion, and then we can tell more clearly how good this automatic
conversion is.

I'd note that the companies who sell such conversion tools do usually have
rather limited evaluation versions - if such evaluation version will not be
able to process NorthWind sample app (do they have it already processed as
sa ample?) maybe you can contact them directly and ask to run the full
version against Northwind and send you the converted result for evaluation.

It's not an issue IMO for evaluation that converted app will have MS Access
BE because the main part of work of your app conversion is currently
expected to be forms/reports + code conversion...

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters
Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 12:06 AM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access FE --> VB: Conversion/Rewrite Time?

Hi Shamil,

The project I want to convert is actually mine, which I license to four
long-term customers in my area (Minneapolis).  Each customer's system has
lots of additions so it does what they want it to do.  To keep things
running well, all trapped code errors are recorded and automatically sent to
me the next morning.  So after several years of working through these, I
think my code is pretty well written.

It's pretty standard, the queries don't use custom functions, forms and
reports are bound to a table or a query, and I don't think I do anything
tricky.  There are about 50K lines of code that are involved.

I don't expect to have a tool return anything more than a starting point.
But if this becomes a 500 hour project, then any time savings is a good
thing!

Thanks!
Dan

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil
Salakhetdinov
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 12:57 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access FE --> VB: Conversion/Rewrite Time?

Hello Dan,

In general I do not believe that automated conversion tools can do good job
- I mean that after running automated conversion you'll get up & running
application. I can be wrong. (I tried in the past some automated conversion
tools - they weren't satisfactory).

The quality of work of such tools IMO severely depends on the quality of the
source code, and e.g. Gustav's code should get converted well, JC's code
should also get converted well but his code specifics are that he uses a lot
of "tricks" and "outdated" technologies features as DAO so automated
conversion will not be of that much help here etc. I quoted here Gustav's
code and JC's code because I have seen their code snippets here many times -
unfortunately the main volume of VBA/VB6 code base AFAIHS is far from that
quality...

I have seen also "incredibly" badly designed forms/reports, which customers
expected to get converted to .NET "overnight" - no way to do that I
suppose...

So if your code and forms/reports are of quality of Gustav and JC, and you
do not use that much "tricky" programming as JC does, and you do not have a
lot of inline SQL, and your forms and reports are mainly bound, and your SQL
in queries is rather clean and doesn't use custom functions, and you do not
use macros, and you do not use a lot of MS Access specific DoCmd... and
RunCommand etc. - then I'd suppose you have good chances to get a converted
app which will compile (after some(?) manual fixes) and which will even get
some features working...

Still just guessing here - if you have this MS Access -> .NET conversion
project and there is no other options - just go for it - find good
consultants/developers, purchase the tools you believe should do the work
for you, make first trial conversion to get converted project compiled and
maybe running some features - you can get quotes for that first phase - just
select the most attractive ones. When that first phase finished you'll know
more. You can also get some code converted during the first phase, which can
be immediately used in production - that would be approval of the costs of
the first conversion phase, then if first phase will succeed go for the
second phase again setting clear customer business attractive goals etc. -
do not try to eat this "behemoth" at once - it could happen you can succeed
in that "big lunch eating" but you'll know that only when you'll make ...

All in all IMO .NET (+ MS SQL backend) development is a way easier than that
of VB6/VBA but learning curve is longer...

Thank you.

--
Shamil


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 6:10 PM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access FE --> VB: Conversion/Rewrite Time?

Hi Shamil,

This is exactly what I was hoping would be available!  Great!

I have a direct conversion project with 175 forms/reports.  Most are simple
but some are complex.  I also have 89 standard modules/class modules.  SQL
Server 2005 will contain the BE.  So, this is a lot of work.  

I did find 2 software utility tools which will do conversion of objects in
Access to objects in VB.Net. 
	
	1) http://www.microtools.us/  this is $160.
	2) http://members.shaw.ca/irie/vbobjconverter.htm  this is $250.

If either even works fairly well, that would be the way to go.  

These both have demo versions so if someone wants to try them out and report
back that would be helpful.  I don't know enough of VB.Net yet to make a
good assessment.

Thanks!
Dan


-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil
Salakhetdinov
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 6:24 AM
To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Access FE --> VB: Conversion/Rewrite Time?

Hello Dan,

I'd count it as one form/report => 1 day => times 2.5 = that would include
all project costs not only development.
But if you do not plan to change any functionality then it can be done
quicker - here is a real life conversion case's stats online:

http://northwind.codeplex.com/Thread/View.aspx?ThreadId=54924

The estimations were between 45 and 165 hours - just for conversion
development work - average estimation was exactly around the final figure:
~65 hours for 35 forms/reports (with subforms/sureports). Final result is
not "industry strong" - it would need another 60 hours to make it "industry
strong", even more time would be needed to write docs and online help if
needed etc. - all in all it will be 1 day for 1 form/report for such a
simple application...

Of course it also depends on how experienced your developers are, what
architecture your converted system is planned to have etc.

Thank you.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 2:56 AM
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'; 'Discussion
concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
Subject: [dba-VB] Access FE --> VB: Conversion/Rewrite Time?

I know some of you have done this!  Do you have any general rules of thumb
on how long the conversion or rewriting took you?

Thanks!
Dan




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