From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Jun 3 12:06:20 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 03 Jun 2010 13:06:20 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Woohooo Message-ID: <4C07E10C.70500@colbyconsulting.com> I just found code to copy a SQL Server database from C#. Ain't the internet a wonderful thing? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Jun 4 16:18:12 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2010 17:18:12 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] How would you cross index Message-ID: <4C096D94.90108@colbyconsulting.com> Imagine you had 10 tables of names / addresses. Each table came from a different source. You could get more such tables at a moment's notice. Each table has a different number of records, real life examples - 12 million, 23 million, 65 million, 75 million etc. Each table has a autonumber PKID that (typically) starts at zero and works up, incrementing by one. Each table has three hash fields (SHA as it happens). 1) Addr / zip5 / zip4 2) LName / Addr / Zip5 / Zip4 3) FName / LName / Zip5 / Zip4 You wanted to cross index these tables. In other words you wanted to know how many exact matches you had (FName, LName, Addr, City, St, Zip5, Zip4) between any given tables. Further imagine that each table had additional DIFFERENT fields that gave specific information about the names in that table. One might be "owns a dog / cat", another might be "has kids in age brackets..." What method would you use to allow a cross index? The only method that I am coming up with would be to have a name/Address table with additional fields to store the PKID from each table. Add each unique name / address into the table one time. Use the name hash in inner joins to discover exact matches. Update the PKID fields in each column for the table(s) that the match(es) occur. Add a new column every time you get a new table. Your ideas? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Jun 4 17:39:55 2010 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2010 08:39:55 +1000 Subject: [dba-VB] How would you cross index In-Reply-To: <4C096D94.90108@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4C096D94.90108@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4C0980BB.23154.A905B9E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> At first glance, that's the way I would handle it too. One advantage is that once you have updated the master table, you can drop all the name/address columns from the data tables and save quite a bit of space :-) -- Stuart On 4 Jun 2010 at 17:18, jwcolby wrote: > What method would you use to allow a cross index? > > The only method that I am coming up with would be to have a name/Address table with additional > fields to store the PKID from each table. Add each unique name / address into the table one time. > Use the name hash in inner joins to discover exact matches. Update the PKID fields in each column > for the table(s) that the match(es) occur. Add a new column every time you get a new table. From michael at ddisolutions.com.au Wed Jun 9 06:09:05 2010 From: michael at ddisolutions.com.au (Michael Maddison) Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2010 21:09:05 +1000 Subject: [dba-VB] Client question! Message-ID: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B5B39@ddi-01.DDI.local> Hi Guys, It's late at night and I really don't know how to respond to this request... "Currently for a name such as O'Tool you have to enter in the ' to get the name to come up, is it possible to get the search to recognise a name such as this when options such as O Tool or Otool are put in by the user" My 1st reaction was to laugh, should I be crying? I think I'd have to do a replace on the field side of the where clause... I'd have to do a replace for each scenario I think. Ideas? Cheers Michael M From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Jun 9 06:24:11 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2010 07:24:11 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Client question! In-Reply-To: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B5B39@ddi-01.DDI.local> References: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B5B39@ddi-01.DDI.local> Message-ID: <4C0F79DB.4070509@colbyconsulting.com> The obvious would be to do a replace on ' and space and then compare against names pre-stripped. Ugly in any case. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Michael Maddison wrote: > Hi Guys, > > > > It's late at night and I really don't know how to respond to this > request... > > > > "Currently for a name such as O'Tool you have to enter in the ' to get > the name to come up, is it possible to get the search to recognise a > name such as this when options such as O Tool or Otool are put in by the > user" > > > > My 1st reaction was to laugh, should I be crying? > > I think I'd have to do a replace on the field side of the where > clause... I'd have to do a replace for each scenario I think. > > > > Ideas? > > > > Cheers > > > > Michael M > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From michael at ddisolutions.com.au Wed Jun 9 06:48:02 2010 From: michael at ddisolutions.com.au (Michael Maddison) Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2010 21:48:02 +1000 Subject: [dba-VB] Client question! References: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B5B39@ddi-01.DDI.local> <4C0F79DB.4070509@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B5B3A@ddi-01.DDI.local> Ugly, yes. It will be war on hyphens next. I guess this will work. WHERE Surname like '%' + @search + '%' OR --The can spell way replace( Surname,'''','') like '%' + replace(@search,' ','') + '%' Michael M The obvious would be to do a replace on ' and space and then compare against names pre-stripped. Ugly in any case. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Michael Maddison wrote: > Hi Guys, > > > > It's late at night and I really don't know how to respond to this > request... > > > > "Currently for a name such as O'Tool you have to enter in the ' to get > the name to come up, is it possible to get the search to recognise a > name such as this when options such as O Tool or Otool are put in by the > user" > > > > My 1st reaction was to laugh, should I be crying? > > I think I'd have to do a replace on the field side of the where > clause... I'd have to do a replace for each scenario I think. > > > > Ideas? > > > > Cheers > > > > Michael M > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.829 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2926 - Release Date: 06/09/10 04:35:00 From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Jun 9 07:38:30 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2010 08:38:30 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Client question! In-Reply-To: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B5B3A@ddi-01.DDI.local> References: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B5B39@ddi-01.DDI.local> <4C0F79DB.4070509@colbyconsulting.com> <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B5B3A@ddi-01.DDI.local> Message-ID: <4C0F8B46.1000909@colbyconsulting.com> I'm thinking that you should preprocess to get the name standardized. Assuming that O Tool is not a valid name, process the name (in the table) such that O Tool is replaced with O'Tool and OTool is replaced with O'Tool and then teach the user that there are ' in names. OTOH... As I cruise email and the internet I constantly see people replace lose with loose (I will loose my sanity) so I am not convinced that there is a solution for your problem. There is no substitute for the ability to think. I actually had a name substitution library that I contributed to which does what you are talking about. It was a rather extensive collection of the hyphenated names culled from huge name lists. And of course I cannot find it anymore. Sigh. The concept is that you build a substitution table and then just search the substitution table. I have searched and searched and simply cannot find it now. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Michael Maddison wrote: > Ugly, yes. > It will be war on hyphens next. > > I guess this will work. > WHERE Surname like '%' + @search + '%' OR --The can spell way > replace( Surname,'''','') like '%' + replace(@search,' ','') + > '%' > > Michael M > > > The obvious would be to do a replace on ' and space and then compare > against names pre-stripped. > > Ugly in any case. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Michael Maddison wrote: >> Hi Guys, >> >> >> >> It's late at night and I really don't know how to respond to this >> request... >> >> >> >> "Currently for a name such as O'Tool you have to enter in the ' to get >> the name to come up, is it possible to get the search to recognise a >> name such as this when options such as O Tool or Otool are put in by > the >> user" >> >> >> >> My 1st reaction was to laugh, should I be crying? >> >> I think I'd have to do a replace on the field side of the where >> clause... I'd have to do a replace for each scenario I think. >> >> >> >> Ideas? >> >> >> >> Cheers >> >> >> >> Michael M From michael at ddisolutions.com.au Wed Jun 9 07:48:30 2010 From: michael at ddisolutions.com.au (Michael Maddison) Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2010 22:48:30 +1000 Subject: [dba-VB] Client question! References: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B5B39@ddi-01.DDI.local> <4C0F79DB.4070509@colbyconsulting.com><59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B5B3A@ddi-01.DDI.local> <4C0F8B46.1000909@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B5B3C@ddi-01.DDI.local> Actually pre-processing and plonking the result in another field would work very well for large tables. This sucker only has 5K names after 6-7 years so I don't think performance will be much of an issue. Cheers Michael M I'm thinking that you should preprocess to get the name standardized. Assuming that O Tool is not a valid name, process the name (in the table) such that O Tool is replaced with O'Tool and OTool is replaced with O'Tool and then teach the user that there are ' in names. OTOH... As I cruise email and the internet I constantly see people replace lose with loose (I will loose my sanity) so I am not convinced that there is a solution for your problem. There is no substitute for the ability to think. I actually had a name substitution library that I contributed to which does what you are talking about. It was a rather extensive collection of the hyphenated names culled from huge name lists. And of course I cannot find it anymore. Sigh. The concept is that you build a substitution table and then just search the substitution table. I have searched and searched and simply cannot find it now. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Michael Maddison wrote: > Ugly, yes. > It will be war on hyphens next. > > I guess this will work. > WHERE Surname like '%' + @search + '%' OR --The can spell way > replace( Surname,'''','') like '%' + replace(@search,' ','') + > '%' > > Michael M > > > The obvious would be to do a replace on ' and space and then compare > against names pre-stripped. > > Ugly in any case. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Michael Maddison wrote: >> Hi Guys, >> >> >> >> It's late at night and I really don't know how to respond to this >> request... >> >> >> >> "Currently for a name such as O'Tool you have to enter in the ' to get >> the name to come up, is it possible to get the search to recognise a >> name such as this when options such as O Tool or Otool are put in by > the >> user" >> >> >> >> My 1st reaction was to laugh, should I be crying? >> >> I think I'd have to do a replace on the field side of the where >> clause... I'd have to do a replace for each scenario I think. >> >> >> >> Ideas? >> >> >> >> Cheers >> >> >> >> Michael M _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.829 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2926 - Release Date: 06/09/10 04:35:00 From davidmcafee at gmail.com Wed Jun 9 08:11:39 2010 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2010 06:11:39 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Client question! In-Reply-To: References: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B5B39@ddi-01.DDI.local> <4C0F79DB.4070509@colbyconsulting.com> <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B5B3A@ddi-01.DDI.local> <4C0F8B46.1000909@colbyconsulting.com> <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B5B3C@ddi-01.DDI.local> Message-ID: You can create a function to strip out characters using the replace() function. You can also look at soundex if you are using a SQL BE: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa259235(SQL.80).aspx Sent from my Droid phone. On Jun 9, 2010 5:50 AM, "Michael Maddison" wrote: Actually pre-processing and plonking the result in another field would work very well for large tables. This sucker only has 5K names after 6-7 years so I don't think performance will be much of an issue. Cheers Michael M I'm thinking that you should preprocess to get the name standardized. Assuming that O Tool is not a... No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.829 / Virus Data... dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb ... From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Jun 9 16:46:06 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2010 17:46:06 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SQL Server / 2003 server locks up Message-ID: <4C100B9E.5080107@colbyconsulting.com> I am developing an application in C# which executes stored procedures in SQL Server using threading. I cannot strictly blame the threading but I am getting somewhat frequent "lockup" of the entire server (Windows 2003), which I have not experienced very often (or at least in a long time) prior to using threading. Various folks assisted me in finding SQL Server properties to set CPU affinity and the like which seriously reduced the lockups I used to experience. Is anyone out there experiencing this phenomenon? It doesn't occur often enough to really get a handle on what "causes" the lockup but I have seen instances where I will attempt to move a window on the screen and suddenly it locks up. It has gotten to the point where my assistant is gun shy about running (testing) the application while I am actually using the SQL Server database. On a related note, I am using SMO to do things in SQL server from C#. For example I have a fairly complex process that exports large tables out to .txt files for processing, then imports the resulting CSV files back in, adds fields, updates those fields, creates and drops indexes. All of that processing used to occur in a single database which is the "live data" database. I am now building temp databases to do the export out and import back in processes in, basically so that this processing is happening in a "temp" database and is not causing bloat in my live database. That is working nicely and is dead easy to do. Likewise I am copying template databases and so forth using SMO. SMO appears to be a wrapper around existing SQL Server system SPs exposing that stuff directly to C# in an OO environment. Really nice stuff. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Jun 9 16:57:02 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2010 17:57:02 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Does building cover indexes pay? Message-ID: <4C100E2E.4090107@colbyconsulting.com> I have processes which process huge tables (65 million records are common) and update specific fields with the results of user defined functions. For example I have a function which builds a text "code" using four passed in values. These four values come from four fields of the record and the resulting code is placed back in another field of the same record. ATM I build a "cover index" just before updating this field, perform the update, then delete the index when done. I am wondering whether you guys believe that the time to build the cover index will be recovered by less time taken to perform this update. IOW does it take sufficiently less time to get data from an index vs a table scan that it is worth building the index? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Jun 9 21:09:03 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2010 22:09:03 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Half the databases in recovery Message-ID: <4C10493F.2000304@colbyconsulting.com> Holy smoke batman. This time, the server locks up, I end up rebooting (after hours of waiting "to see") and about 15 different databases are "in recovery". Man that will cause your heart to stop. After only a few minutes I refreshed the databases and only one was still in recovery - the temp database that was being worked with when the lockup occurred. I have never seen databases in recovery that weren't actively involved in operations when the lockup occurred. Strange! -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Jun 9 22:59:47 2010 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2010 20:59:47 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Half the databases in recovery In-Reply-To: <4C10493F.2000304@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4C10493F.2000304@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Hi John: I know little or nothing about multi-threading or Parallelism but what I understand is that the 'old' system of multi-threading is not to be confused with Parallelism. Multi-threading if setup incorrectly could cause the situation as you described. The one person that I know that could help would be a guest lecturer, named Tiberiu 'Tibi' Covaci, who gave a couple of seminars on Hyper-threading and Parallelism, up at the local university. He also said if we had any issues on implementing the process just email him at: http://tibi at multi-core.net His web site is: http://blog.multi-core.net/ Hope this helps. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 7:09 PM To: VBA; Sqlserver-Dba Subject: [dba-VB] Half the databases in recovery Holy smoke batman. This time, the server locks up, I end up rebooting (after hours of waiting "to see") and about 15 different databases are "in recovery". Man that will cause your heart to stop. After only a few minutes I refreshed the databases and only one was still in recovery - the temp database that was being worked with when the lockup occurred. I have never seen databases in recovery that weren't actively involved in operations when the lockup occurred. Strange! -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ha at phulse.com Thu Jun 10 04:25:13 2010 From: ha at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 10:25:13 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] SQL Server / 2003 server locks up In-Reply-To: <4C100B9E.5080107@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4C100B9E.5080107@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: While I could not give you any technical advice with regards to your application or SQL Server, it seems rather antithetical to the whole premise of multi-threading (a rather robust technology at this point) to have the server lock up when you are doing things like dragging a window. Have you tried monitoring the performance graphs to see what happens just before the lock-up? You might have a run-away process spawning too many threads or a thread which is consuming too many resources and memory, causing your server to start paging like mad. Perhaps your threads are doing too many things (typically you have to strike a balancing between keeping your threads light-weight vs the overhead of spawning threads). Seems a bit quaint to have an application so specific that it requires you to tweak the scheduler of the operating system. Just a thought? Hans-Christian Software Developer, UK ----------------------------------------------------------------- tel: +44 (0)782 894 5456 e-mail: hans.andersen at phulse.com www: nokenode.com ----------------------------------------------------------------- Unique Gifts, Collectables, Artwork ----------------------------------------------------------------- Come one Come all to www.corinnajasmine.com ----------------------------------------------------------------- On 9 June 2010 22:46, jwcolby wrote: > I am developing an application in C# which executes stored procedures in > SQL Server using threading. > I cannot strictly blame the threading but I am getting somewhat frequent > "lockup" of the entire > server (Windows 2003), which I have not experienced very often (or at least > in a long time) prior to > using threading. Various folks assisted me in finding SQL Server > properties to set CPU affinity and > the like which seriously reduced the lockups I used to experience. > > Is anyone out there experiencing this phenomenon? It doesn't occur often > enough to really get a > handle on what "causes" the lockup but I have seen instances where I will > attempt to move a window > on the screen and suddenly it locks up. > > It has gotten to the point where my assistant is gun shy about running > (testing) the application > while I am actually using the SQL Server database. > > On a related note, I am using SMO to do things in SQL server from C#. For > example I have a fairly > complex process that exports large tables out to .txt files for processing, > then imports the > resulting CSV files back in, adds fields, updates those fields, creates and > drops indexes. All of > that processing used to occur in a single database which is the "live data" > database. I am now > building temp databases to do the export out and import back in processes > in, basically so that this > processing is happening in a "temp" database and is not causing bloat in my > live database. That is > working nicely and is dead easy to do. Likewise I am copying template > databases and so forth using SMO. > > SMO appears to be a wrapper around existing SQL Server system SPs exposing > that stuff directly to C# > in an OO environment. Really nice stuff. > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From ha at phulse.com Thu Jun 10 04:35:02 2010 From: ha at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 10:35:02 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Client question! In-Reply-To: References: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B5B39@ddi-01.DDI.local> <4C0F79DB.4070509@colbyconsulting.com> <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B5B3A@ddi-01.DDI.local> <4C0F8B46.1000909@colbyconsulting.com> <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B5B3C@ddi-01.DDI.local> Message-ID: I wonder if this is something SQL Servers "NEAR" proximity search can handle effectively? http://support.microsoft.com/kb/888008 Hans-Christian Software Developer, UK ----------------------------------------------------------------- tel: +44 (0)782 894 5456 e-mail: hans.andersen at phulse.com www: nokenode.com ----------------------------------------------------------------- Unique Gifts, Collectables, Artwork ----------------------------------------------------------------- Come one Come all to www.corinnajasmine.com ----------------------------------------------------------------- On 9 June 2010 14:11, David McAfee wrote: > You can create a function to strip out characters using the replace() > function. > > You can also look at soundex if you are using a SQL BE: > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa259235(SQL.80).aspx > > Sent from my Droid phone. > > On Jun 9, 2010 5:50 AM, "Michael Maddison" > wrote: > > Actually pre-processing and plonking the result in another field would > work very well for large tables. > This sucker only has 5K names after 6-7 years so I don't think > performance will be much of an issue. > > Cheers > > Michael M > > > I'm thinking that you should preprocess to get the name standardized. > Assuming that O Tool is not a... > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.829 / Virus Data... > > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > ... > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Jun 10 07:37:29 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 08:37:29 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] SQL Server / 2003 server locks up In-Reply-To: References: <4C100B9E.5080107@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4C10DC89.2030802@colbyconsulting.com> Hans-Christian >Have you tried monitoring the performance graphs to see what happens just before the lock-up? I am not very hip on SQL Server, so the answer is NO, I don't even know where to go to find the "performance graphs" or even what you mean by "performance graphs". My application is not that complex in terms of number of threads created. In fact to this point I only have a single thread. Basically I have a form which I use to set parameters to an import or export process, things like specific database, specific table in that database, disk directory that holds the files etc. Once all of the parameters are set I just click a button and a single worker thread is created which starts a "process". This process is exporting 60 million records into 2 million record files, or importing back in 2 million record files and assembling them into a table. So... one thread. My hope in this mess was that I could (eventually) be able to do other things within the program. For example start exporting the 60 million record table and then go start processing an order. The "export" runs in its worker thread and the application still responds and allows me to open another form and do other things. There are some things that I have discovered through the school of hard knocks. 1) Threads have priority levels which you can explicitly set. 2) Priority levels can range from "background only" to "lock the OS and don't do ANYTHING other than this thread until I tell you otherwise". 3) SQL Server does issue a "lock the OS" level threads under some (undefined) circumstances, in order to perform processing that it deems critical. 4) Once a "lock the OS" level thread is issued, NO display level operations are performed. Only things like disk processing, network etc. (very specific hardware level things which must happen at all times) are allowed to continue at the OS level. 5) On top of all that there may be "deadlock" type of issues which can lock things up. Given that my application (to this point) is only ever issuing a single worker thread, it seems unlikely that my thread is directly the cause of the lockup. My client has agreed in principal to fund a server upgrade. AMD has released a new series of server chips http://www.anandtech.com/show/2978/amd-s-12-core-magny-cours-opteron-6174-vs-intel-s-6-core-xeon Which will allow me to build a server (I build my own) with anywhere from 8 to 24 real cores and up to 64 gigs of ram at a "reasonable" price. Pair that with Windows 2008 and SQL Server 2008 and I could have a system to efficiently handle the volumes of data which I am struggling to handle with a much less powerful server. OTOH, if the server is going to lock up on me, having 4 or 24 cores won't make much difference. Windows can lock up 24 cores as easily as one! ;) All of that said, I have been doing my development and running my application on my server, through remote desktop. I am doing so because of technical issues - I can't figure out how to get VisualSVN to play nice and accept the path to the source code database from my workstations. This is the one sucky thing about VisualSVN, it is rather stone-aged in that regard. Obviously I should NOT be doing my development on the server, and I should DEFINITELY NOT be actually running my application on the server, but that is what I am stuck with until I figure out the VisualSVN thing. Sigh. So it may in fact work out that the whole "lock-up" issue would just go away if I move the application off to a workstation. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Hans-Christian Andersen wrote: > While I could not give you any technical advice with regards to your > application or SQL Server, it seems rather antithetical to the whole premise > of multi-threading (a rather robust technology at this point) to have the > server lock up when you are doing things like dragging a window. Have you > tried monitoring the performance graphs to see what happens just before the > lock-up? You might have a run-away process spawning too many threads or a > thread which is consuming too many resources and memory, causing your server > to start paging like mad. Perhaps your threads are doing too many things > (typically you have to strike a balancing between keeping your threads > light-weight vs the overhead of spawning threads). Seems a bit quaint to > have an application so specific that it requires you to tweak the scheduler > of the operating system. Just a thought? > > > Hans-Christian > Software Developer, UK From pharold at cfl.rr.com Thu Jun 10 11:02:53 2010 From: pharold at cfl.rr.com (Perry Harold) Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 12:02:53 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Half the databases in recovery References: <4C10493F.2000304@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Makes you happy you had that backup though just in case huh? Perry ----- Original Message ----- From: "jwcolby" To: "VBA" ; "Sqlserver-Dba" Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 10:09 PM Subject: [dba-VB] Half the databases in recovery > Holy smoke batman. This time, the server locks up, I end up rebooting > (after hours of waiting "to > see") and about 15 different databases are "in recovery". Man that will > cause your heart to stop. > > After only a few minutes I refreshed the databases and only one was still > in recovery - the temp > database that was being worked with when the lockup occurred. > > I have never seen databases in recovery that weren't actively involved in > operations when the lockup > occurred. > > Strange! > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Jun 10 14:18:24 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 15:18:24 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Login to sql server Message-ID: <4C113A80.8060000@colbyconsulting.com> I have a network at my home office which uses Windows for Workgroups networking. I have two SQL Servers. I am having issues getting an employee able to log in to the AZUL SQL Server instance (running on the AZUL server machine) FROM a desktop machine. He is able to remote desktop in to the AZUL server, to his own user, and through that is able to open SQL Server Management Studio and do stuff, and is able to use the C# program we are writing to do stuff. From his workstation, I AM able to log in as my own user, then open SSMS and log in to AZUL SQL server instance. Paul is unable to log in to the AZUL SS instance through SSMS. He gets an error: Cannot connect to Azul. Cannot open user default database. Login Failed. Login failed for Azul\Paul. SQL Server error 4064 This seems to imply that it has something to do with his user on the workstation, since he can log in if he remote desktops in. However the user name and password on the workstation is exactly the same as the username on AZUL. I don't know where to go next in troubleshooting this. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Jun 10 14:23:50 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 15:23:50 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] [dba-SQLServer] Login to sql server In-Reply-To: <4C113A80.8060000@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4C113A80.8060000@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4C113BC6.309@colbyconsulting.com> The "default database" was the key. Discovered it about 15 oh-no-seconds after pressing send. I'm good on this one. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com jwcolby wrote: > I have a network at my home office which uses Windows for Workgroups networking. > > I have two SQL Servers. I am having issues getting an employee able to log in to the AZUL SQL > Server instance (running on the AZUL server machine) FROM a desktop machine. He is able to remote > desktop in to the AZUL server, to his own user, and through that is able to open SQL Server > Management Studio and do stuff, and is able to use the C# program we are writing to do stuff. > > From his workstation, I AM able to log in as my own user, then open SSMS and log in to AZUL SQL > server instance. > > Paul is unable to log in to the AZUL SS instance through SSMS. He gets an error: > > Cannot connect to Azul. > > Cannot open user default database. Login Failed. > > Login failed for Azul\Paul. SQL Server error 4064 > > This seems to imply that it has something to do with his user on the workstation, since he can log > in if he remote desktops in. However the user name and password on the workstation is exactly the > same as the username on AZUL. > > I don't know where to go next in troubleshooting this. > From pharold at cfl.rr.com Thu Jun 10 14:29:03 2010 From: pharold at cfl.rr.com (Perry Harold) Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 15:29:03 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Login to sql server References: <4C113A80.8060000@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Try making Paul an administrator on the workstation? Perry ----- Original Message ----- From: "jwcolby" To: "Sqlserver-Dba" ; "VBA" Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2010 3:18 PM Subject: [dba-VB] Login to sql server >I have a network at my home office which uses Windows for Workgroups >networking. > > I have two SQL Servers. I am having issues getting an employee able to > log in to the AZUL SQL > Server instance (running on the AZUL server machine) FROM a desktop > machine. He is able to remote > desktop in to the AZUL server, to his own user, and through that is able > to open SQL Server > Management Studio and do stuff, and is able to use the C# program we are > writing to do stuff. > > From his workstation, I AM able to log in as my own user, then open SSMS > and log in to AZUL SQL > server instance. > > Paul is unable to log in to the AZUL SS instance through SSMS. He gets an > error: > > Cannot connect to Azul. > > Cannot open user default database. Login Failed. > > Login failed for Azul\Paul. SQL Server error 4064 > > This seems to imply that it has something to do with his user on the > workstation, since he can log > in if he remote desktops in. However the user name and password on the > workstation is exactly the > same as the username on AZUL. > > I don't know where to go next in troubleshooting this. > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From garykjos at gmail.com Thu Jun 10 15:48:13 2010 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 15:48:13 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] [dba-SQLServer] Login to sql server In-Reply-To: <4C113BC6.309@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4C113A80.8060000@colbyconsulting.com> <4C113BC6.309@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Glad we could help. ;-) GK On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 2:23 PM, jwcolby wrote: > The "default database" was the key. ?Discovered it about 15 oh-no-seconds after pressing send. > > I'm good on this one. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > jwcolby wrote: >> I have a network at my home office which uses Windows for Workgroups networking. >> >> I have two SQL Servers. ?I am having issues getting an employee able to log in to the AZUL SQL >> Server instance (running on the AZUL server machine) FROM a desktop machine. ?He is able to remote >> desktop in to the AZUL server, to his own user, and through that is able to open SQL Server >> Management Studio and do stuff, and is able to use the C# program we are writing to do stuff. >> >> ?From his workstation, I AM able to log in as my own user, then open SSMS and log in to AZUL SQL >> server instance. >> >> Paul is unable to log in to the AZUL SS instance through SSMS. ?He gets an error: >> >> Cannot connect to Azul. >> >> Cannot open user default database. ?Login Failed. >> >> Login failed for Azul\Paul. ?SQL Server error 4064 >> >> This seems to imply that it has something to do with his user on the workstation, since he can log >> in if he remote desktops in. ?However the user name and password on the workstation is exactly the >> same as the username on AZUL. >> >> I don't know where to go next in troubleshooting this. >> > _______________________________________________ > dba-SQLServer mailing list > dba-SQLServer at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-sqlserver > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From ha at phulse.com Thu Jun 10 16:31:08 2010 From: ha at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 21:31:08 +0000 Subject: [dba-VB] SQL Server / 2003 server locks up In-Reply-To: <4C10DC89.2030802@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4C100B9E.5080107@colbyconsulting.com> <4C10DC89.2030802@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: John, Without looking at code, it would be hard to determine if the issue you are suffering from is related to deadlocks or race conditions or misbehaving code in your thread model or whatnot... nor is it out of the realm of possibility that SQL Server itself is causing the operating system to hang at a time of high load from your application, due to its own internal operations. But by performance graphs, I'm referring to something that collects data of your system (cpu, networking, memory, paging, database queries/loads, etc) and provides graphs or raw data for you to get a general idea of where the problem may lie (take one of my servers, for example: http://kungfusus.gotdns.com/munin/localdomain/localhost.localdomain/index.html ). On my side of the fence in *nix land, I use something called Munin which does such a thing. I believe there's even a Munin node for Windows, although I'm sure there are solutions that suit the Windows environment far better ( ie. http://www.monitortools.com/ ). Long story short, while it may not necessarily spell out what your exact problem is, at least you have some information about the mental state of your server in the last moments before it shuffled off this mortal coil... and this can be quite useful in narrowing down where the problem is. But, I have to say, it doesn't seem like you are doing anything too 'exotic', and considering that SQL Server is used by governments and big enterprise, I'd be surprised if there were serious stability problems merely from the process of exporting and importing. With regards to VisualSVN, well, personally, I do all my subversioning from the command line, because I felt relying too much on a GUI would one day put me at a disadvantage, but I recommend http://tortoisesvn.tigris.org/ . It integrates with Windows Explorer, so it's a level deeper than a plug-in for Visual Studio and has always worked rather reliably. However, it would be interesting to see if moving your app off to a separate workstation solves the problem... I think that would raise more questions than it would answer though! :p Hans-Christian Software Developer, UK ----------------------------------------------------------------- tel: +44 (0)782 894 5456 e-mail: hans.andersen at phulse.com www: nokenode.com ----------------------------------------------------------------- Unique Gifts, Collectables, Artwork ----------------------------------------------------------------- Come one Come all to www.corinnajasmine.com ----------------------------------------------------------------- On 10 June 2010 12:37, jwcolby wrote: > Hans-Christian > > >Have you tried monitoring the performance graphs to see what happens just > before the lock-up? > > I am not very hip on SQL Server, so the answer is NO, I don't even know > where to go to find the > "performance graphs" or even what you mean by "performance graphs". > > My application is not that complex in terms of number of threads created. > In fact to this point I > only have a single thread. Basically I have a form which I use to set > parameters to an import or > export process, things like specific database, specific table in that > database, disk directory that > holds the files etc. Once all of the parameters are set I just click a > button and a single worker > thread is created which starts a "process". This process is exporting 60 > million records into 2 > million record files, or importing back in 2 million record files and > assembling them into a table. > > So... one thread. > > My hope in this mess was that I could (eventually) be able to do other > things within the program. > For example start exporting the 60 million record table and then go start > processing an order. The > "export" runs in its worker thread and the application still responds and > allows me to open another > form and do other things. > > There are some things that I have discovered through the school of hard > knocks. > > 1) Threads have priority levels which you can explicitly set. > 2) Priority levels can range from "background only" to "lock the OS and > don't do ANYTHING other than > this thread until I tell you otherwise". > 3) SQL Server does issue a "lock the OS" level threads under some > (undefined) circumstances, in > order to perform processing that it deems critical. > 4) Once a "lock the OS" level thread is issued, NO display level operations > are performed. Only > things like disk processing, network etc. (very specific hardware level > things which must happen at > all times) are allowed to continue at the OS level. > > 5) On top of all that there may be "deadlock" type of issues which can lock > things up. > > Given that my application (to this point) is only ever issuing a single > worker thread, it seems > unlikely that my thread is directly the cause of the lockup. > > My client has agreed in principal to fund a server upgrade. AMD has > released a new series of server > chips > > > http://www.anandtech.com/show/2978/amd-s-12-core-magny-cours-opteron-6174-vs-intel-s-6-core-xeon > > Which will allow me to build a server (I build my own) with anywhere from 8 > to 24 real cores and up > to 64 gigs of ram at a "reasonable" price. Pair that with Windows 2008 and > SQL Server 2008 and I > could have a system to efficiently handle the volumes of data which I am > struggling to handle with a > much less powerful server. > > OTOH, if the server is going to lock up on me, having 4 or 24 cores won't > make much difference. > Windows can lock up 24 cores as easily as one! ;) > > All of that said, I have been doing my development and running my > application on my server, through > remote desktop. I am doing so because of technical issues - I can't figure > out how to get VisualSVN > to play nice and accept the path to the source code database from my > workstations. This is the one > sucky thing about VisualSVN, it is rather stone-aged in that regard. > > Obviously I should NOT be doing my development on the server, and I should > DEFINITELY NOT be > actually running my application on the server, but that is what I am stuck > with until I figure out > the VisualSVN thing. > > Sigh. > > So it may in fact work out that the whole "lock-up" issue would just go > away if I move the > application off to a workstation. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Hans-Christian Andersen wrote: > > While I could not give you any technical advice with regards to your > > application or SQL Server, it seems rather antithetical to the whole > premise > > of multi-threading (a rather robust technology at this point) to have the > > server lock up when you are doing things like dragging a window. Have you > > tried monitoring the performance graphs to see what happens just before > the > > lock-up? You might have a run-away process spawning too many threads or a > > thread which is consuming too many resources and memory, causing your > server > > to start paging like mad. Perhaps your threads are doing too many things > > (typically you have to strike a balancing between keeping your threads > > light-weight vs the overhead of spawning threads). Seems a bit quaint to > > have an application so specific that it requires you to tweak the > scheduler > > of the operating system. Just a thought? > > > > > > Hans-Christian > > Software Developer, UK > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Jun 11 15:24:12 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 16:24:12 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Multi-project solution Message-ID: <4C129B6C.2050003@colbyconsulting.com> I launched in to building a C# application where I divided the solution into projects. It certainly seems to make sense, a solution can have multiple solutions, and each solution becomes an arm in a tree structure inside of the solution. OTOH each project has an entire set of properties all it's own. They are not inherited from parent (solution) properties. I don't claim to be any guru but it sure seems that many of the properties in the project really should apply to the entire solution. For example each project has a properties.Settings. However there is no Solution.properties object at all AFAICT, never mind a Solution.Properties.Settings. Thus (for example) I have a server name, a bunch of paths on the server etc. All of those things have to be declared over and over in each project's Properties.Setting or... have to be declared in one specific project and then that project referenced in every other project. Is it just me or is this project thing a lot of extra effort for what you get? What specifically DO you get? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From michael at ddisolutions.com.au Fri Jun 11 21:38:57 2010 From: michael at ddisolutions.com.au (Michael Maddison) Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 12:38:57 +1000 Subject: [dba-VB] Multi-project solution References: <4C129B6C.2050003@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B5B5F@ddi-01.DDI.local> Hi John, I think it's you bud :-) I think most people quite like compartmentalising their code using projects and NameSpaces. Adding a ref or Using is a small price to pay IMO. If your project is an internal project for your DBFH then 1 solution and 1 project is probably fine for you. However, I'd still break it down using namespaces, something like... Colby.DBFH.Forms Colby.DBFH.Data Colby.DBFH.Data.Services Colby.DBFH.Data.Entities Colby.DBFH.Data.Providers Colby.DBFH.Tools Colby.DBFH.Settings Each namespace can be it's own project or all mixed together any way you like. Put your classes in the appropriate namespaces and as the solution grows you will be able to keep organised. (and it looks nice in object explorer) HTH Michael M I launched in to building a C# application where I divided the solution into projects. It certainly seems to make sense, a solution can have multiple solutions, and each solution becomes an arm in a tree structure inside of the solution. OTOH each project has an entire set of properties all it's own. They are not inherited from parent (solution) properties. I don't claim to be any guru but it sure seems that many of the properties in the project really should apply to the entire solution. For example each project has a properties.Settings. However there is no Solution.properties object at all AFAICT, never mind a Solution.Properties.Settings. Thus (for example) I have a server name, a bunch of paths on the server etc. All of those things have to be declared over and over in each project's Properties.Setting or... have to be declared in one specific project and then that project referenced in every other project. Is it just me or is this project thing a lot of extra effort for what you get? What specifically DO you get? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.829 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2928 - Release Date: 06/11/10 04:35:00 From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Jun 11 22:15:37 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 23:15:37 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Multi-project solution In-Reply-To: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B5B5F@ddi-01.DDI.local> References: <4C129B6C.2050003@colbyconsulting.com> <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B5B5F@ddi-01.DDI.local> Message-ID: <4C12FBD9.2080607@colbyconsulting.com> Michael, It's not so much the using / references as having a copy of all of the properties in each project. I originally developed the code directly on the server. I used remote desktop to log in, it was just me, everything is "fine". Then I hired a fine fella to help me, and started trying to get organized. Set up a workstation for him, started getting the whole thing running from the workstation. Now the code running from either workstation takes about 10 times as long to compile ( a couple of seconds directly on the server... that long for EACH PROJECT on either workstation. You can actually watch it compile project by project. That isn't huge, it just takes 15 or 20 seconds to do a compile now instead of 2 or 3. However... Debug takes about a second or two PER STEP on the workstations. No se por que. However when I Google that I get a TON of hits. With a TON of DIFFERENT "go into the project / properties / somespecifictab and look for...". Well guess what, I now have a half dozen projects to do this with. That SUCKS! I haven't found the fix, but I have spent a TON of time going in time after time, project after project searching through the properties stuff to see if I have the specific fix that worked for developer XYZ. It is waaaay more than just a reference and a using... I can see how projects would be cool if they are going to be pieces of many different solutions, however mine aren't, they are just an organizational tool for my single solution. And yes, they make organization neat however there is a rather large price IMHO. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Michael Maddison wrote: > Hi John, > > I think it's you bud :-) > I think most people quite like compartmentalising their code using > projects and NameSpaces. > Adding a ref or Using is a small price to pay IMO. > > If your project is an internal project for your DBFH then 1 solution and > 1 project is probably fine for you. > However, I'd still break it down using namespaces, something like... > Colby.DBFH.Forms > Colby.DBFH.Data > Colby.DBFH.Data.Services > Colby.DBFH.Data.Entities > Colby.DBFH.Data.Providers > Colby.DBFH.Tools > Colby.DBFH.Settings > > > Each namespace can be it's own project or all mixed together any way you > like. Put your classes in the appropriate namespaces and > as the solution grows you will be able to keep organised. (and it looks > nice in object explorer) > > > HTH > > Michael M > > > > I launched in to building a C# application where I divided the solution > into projects. > > It certainly seems to make sense, a solution can have multiple > solutions, and each solution becomes > an arm in a tree structure inside of the solution. > > OTOH each project has an entire set of properties all it's own. They > are not inherited from parent > (solution) properties. I don't claim to be any guru but it sure seems > that many of the properties > in the project really should apply to the entire solution. For example > each project has a > properties.Settings. However there is no Solution.properties object at > all AFAICT, never mind a > Solution.Properties.Settings. Thus (for example) I have a server name, > a bunch of paths on the > server etc. All of those things have to be declared over and over in > each project's > Properties.Setting or... have to be declared in one specific project and > then that project > referenced in every other project. > > Is it just me or is this project thing a lot of extra effort for what > you get? What specifically DO > you get? > From michael at ddisolutions.com.au Fri Jun 11 23:17:35 2010 From: michael at ddisolutions.com.au (Michael Maddison) Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 14:17:35 +1000 Subject: [dba-VB] Multi-project solution References: <4C129B6C.2050003@colbyconsulting.com><59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B5B5F@ddi-01.DDI.local> <4C12FBD9.2080607@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B5B60@ddi-01.DDI.local> John, >>>inline Michael, It's not so much the using / references as having a copy of all of the properties in each project. I originally developed the code directly on the server. I used remote desktop to log in, it was just me, everything is "fine". Then I hired a fine fella to help me, and started trying to get organized. Set up a workstation for him, started getting the whole thing running from the workstation. Now the code running from either workstation takes about 10 times as long to compile ( a couple of seconds directly on the server... that long for EACH PROJECT on either workstation. You can actually watch it compile project by project. That isn't huge, it just takes 15 or 20 seconds to do a compile now instead of 2 or 3. >>> You can set the build properties of each project in the solution. Right click on Solution --> Configuration manager --> untick the projects that don't require building each time you run the solution. However... Debug takes about a second or two PER STEP on the workstations. No se por que. However when I Google that I get a TON of hits. With a TON of DIFFERENT "go into the project / properties / somespecifictab and look for...". Well guess what, I now have a half dozen projects to do this with. That SUCKS! I haven't found the fix, but I have spent a TON of time going in time after time, project after project searching through the properties stuff to see if I have the specific fix that worked for developer XYZ. >>> I can't say I've had to do more than run with the defaults. It is waaaay more than just a reference and a using... >>> It seems you are developing on code shared from the server? Is that right? I can't help with that other to advise setting up Subversion and developing locally. Am I missing the point? I can see how projects would be cool if they are going to be pieces of many different solutions, however mine aren't, they are just an organizational tool for my single solution. And yes, they make organization neat however there is a rather large price IMHO. >>> Yes but, disabling build on the projects that are stable will speed build up a lot. >>> Working on local working copies of the code will speed up debugging, I'm pretty sure. Cheers Michael M John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Michael Maddison wrote: > Hi John, > > I think it's you bud :-) > I think most people quite like compartmentalising their code using > projects and NameSpaces. > Adding a ref or Using is a small price to pay IMO. > > If your project is an internal project for your DBFH then 1 solution and > 1 project is probably fine for you. > However, I'd still break it down using namespaces, something like... > Colby.DBFH.Forms > Colby.DBFH.Data > Colby.DBFH.Data.Services > Colby.DBFH.Data.Entities > Colby.DBFH.Data.Providers > Colby.DBFH.Tools > Colby.DBFH.Settings > > > Each namespace can be it's own project or all mixed together any way you > like. Put your classes in the appropriate namespaces and > as the solution grows you will be able to keep organised. (and it looks > nice in object explorer) > > > HTH > > Michael M > > > > I launched in to building a C# application where I divided the solution > into projects. > > It certainly seems to make sense, a solution can have multiple > solutions, and each solution becomes > an arm in a tree structure inside of the solution. > > OTOH each project has an entire set of properties all it's own. They > are not inherited from parent > (solution) properties. I don't claim to be any guru but it sure seems > that many of the properties > in the project really should apply to the entire solution. For example > each project has a > properties.Settings. However there is no Solution.properties object at > all AFAICT, never mind a > Solution.Properties.Settings. Thus (for example) I have a server name, > a bunch of paths on the > server etc. All of those things have to be declared over and over in > each project's > Properties.Setting or... have to be declared in one specific project and > then that project > referenced in every other project. > > Is it just me or is this project thing a lot of extra effort for what > you get? What specifically DO > you get? > _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.829 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2928 - Release Date: 06/12/10 04:35:00 From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Jun 11 23:43:00 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 00:43:00 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Multi-project solution In-Reply-To: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B5B60@ddi-01.DDI.local> References: <4C129B6C.2050003@colbyconsulting.com><59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B5B5F@ddi-01.DDI.local> <4C12FBD9.2080607@colbyconsulting.com> <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B5B60@ddi-01.DDI.local> Message-ID: <4C131054.8000607@colbyconsulting.com> There are no projects that are stable. I just hired a fella to work with me because I have so much dev to do I couldn't do it all myself. The version control system repository is on the server because the server has mongo raid 6 arrays with room and redundancy. I never really realized that things would slow down so much when accessed from workstations because I never developed this way until now. The solution code all operates against the server, IOW it causes execution of stored procedures that perform massive table operations on the server. Likewise the files imported / exported are stored on the server because... there is a massive RAID 6 array with storage and redundancy. Not to mention that the server itself has massive memory etc. That is only getting more so in the future. My server is about to go to a truly massive (to me) system with 16-24 cores and 32G-64G of RAM. So I set it all up to just be on the server and I used remote desktop to get in and work. That really isn't optimum having the actual application EXECUTE on the server, or for that matter to have two people actively developing code on the server - that is what workstations are for. But the server is the most powerful machine in house by far so storage and SQL Server processing is and will continue to execute there. It isn't clear why the debug stepping is so slow, however it is certainly not unique to me. I Googled it and found just dozens of threads on dozens of sites regarding this issue. It also isn't clear that Projects are the reason per se for the slow debug stuff. As long as everything works, using many projects is not too big an issue but when you start repeatedly searching through all of the project properties dialogs it becomes tedious. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Michael Maddison wrote: > John, > >>>> inline > > Michael, > > It's not so much the using / references as having a copy of all of the > properties in each project. > > I originally developed the code directly on the server. I used remote > desktop to log in, it was > just me, everything is "fine". Then I hired a fine fella to help me, > and started trying to get > organized. Set up a workstation for him, started getting the whole > thing running from the > workstation. > > Now the code running from either workstation takes about 10 times as > long to compile ( a couple of > seconds directly on the server... that long for EACH PROJECT on either > workstation. You can > actually watch it compile project by project. That isn't huge, it just > takes 15 or 20 seconds to do > a compile now instead of 2 or 3. > >>>> You can set the build properties of each project in the solution. > Right click on Solution --> > Configuration manager --> untick the projects that don't require > building each time you run the solution. > > However... > > Debug takes about a second or two PER STEP on the workstations. No se > por que. However when I > Google that I get a TON of hits. With a TON of DIFFERENT "go into the > project / properties / > somespecifictab and look for...". Well guess what, I now have a half > dozen projects to do this with. > > That SUCKS! I haven't found the fix, but I have spent a TON of time > going in time after time, > project after project searching through the properties stuff to see if I > have the specific fix that > worked for developer XYZ. > >>>> I can't say I've had to do more than run with the defaults. > > It is waaaay more than just a reference and a using... > >>>> It seems you are developing on code shared from the server? Is that > right? I can't help with that > other to advise setting up Subversion and developing locally. Am I > missing the point? > > I can see how projects would be cool if they are going to be pieces of > many different solutions, > however mine aren't, they are just an organizational tool for my single > solution. And yes, they > make organization neat however there is a rather large price IMHO. > >>>> Yes but, disabling build on the projects that are stable will speed > build up a lot. >>>> Working on local working copies of the code will speed up debugging, > I'm pretty sure. > > Cheers > > Michael M From michael at ddisolutions.com.au Sat Jun 12 00:15:36 2010 From: michael at ddisolutions.com.au (Michael Maddison) Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 15:15:36 +1000 Subject: [dba-VB] Multi-project solution References: <4C129B6C.2050003@colbyconsulting.com><59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B5B5F@ddi-01.DDI.local> <4C12FBD9.2080607@colbyconsulting.com><59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B5B60@ddi-01.DDI.local> <4C131054.8000607@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B5B61@ddi-01.DDI.local> It's not a problem I've really faced, I sometimes have multiple configs but they store different settings. You can have a Global settings file but you will have to reference that project everywhere. Why do you have to search each project properties dialogs? If your changing a common property in multiple projects (same name???) do a 'replace in files' Apart from that I am out of ideas. Cheers Michael M There are no projects that are stable. I just hired a fella to work with me because I have so much dev to do I couldn't do it all myself. The version control system repository is on the server because the server has mongo raid 6 arrays with room and redundancy. I never really realized that things would slow down so much when accessed from workstations because I never developed this way until now. The solution code all operates against the server, IOW it causes execution of stored procedures that perform massive table operations on the server. Likewise the files imported / exported are stored on the server because... there is a massive RAID 6 array with storage and redundancy. Not to mention that the server itself has massive memory etc. That is only getting more so in the future. My server is about to go to a truly massive (to me) system with 16-24 cores and 32G-64G of RAM. So I set it all up to just be on the server and I used remote desktop to get in and work. That really isn't optimum having the actual application EXECUTE on the server, or for that matter to have two people actively developing code on the server - that is what workstations are for. But the server is the most powerful machine in house by far so storage and SQL Server processing is and will continue to execute there. It isn't clear why the debug stepping is so slow, however it is certainly not unique to me. I Googled it and found just dozens of threads on dozens of sites regarding this issue. It also isn't clear that Projects are the reason per se for the slow debug stuff. As long as everything works, using many projects is not too big an issue but when you start repeatedly searching through all of the project properties dialogs it becomes tedious. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Michael Maddison wrote: > John, > >>>> inline > > Michael, > > It's not so much the using / references as having a copy of all of the > properties in each project. > > I originally developed the code directly on the server. I used remote > desktop to log in, it was > just me, everything is "fine". Then I hired a fine fella to help me, > and started trying to get > organized. Set up a workstation for him, started getting the whole > thing running from the > workstation. > > Now the code running from either workstation takes about 10 times as > long to compile ( a couple of > seconds directly on the server... that long for EACH PROJECT on either > workstation. You can > actually watch it compile project by project. That isn't huge, it just > takes 15 or 20 seconds to do > a compile now instead of 2 or 3. > >>>> You can set the build properties of each project in the solution. > Right click on Solution --> > Configuration manager --> untick the projects that don't require > building each time you run the solution. > > However... > > Debug takes about a second or two PER STEP on the workstations. No se > por que. However when I > Google that I get a TON of hits. With a TON of DIFFERENT "go into the > project / properties / > somespecifictab and look for...". Well guess what, I now have a half > dozen projects to do this with. > > That SUCKS! I haven't found the fix, but I have spent a TON of time > going in time after time, > project after project searching through the properties stuff to see if I > have the specific fix that > worked for developer XYZ. > >>>> I can't say I've had to do more than run with the defaults. > > It is waaaay more than just a reference and a using... > >>>> It seems you are developing on code shared from the server? Is that > right? I can't help with that > other to advise setting up Subversion and developing locally. Am I > missing the point? > > I can see how projects would be cool if they are going to be pieces of > many different solutions, > however mine aren't, they are just an organizational tool for my single > solution. And yes, they > make organization neat however there is a rather large price IMHO. > >>>> Yes but, disabling build on the projects that are stable will speed > build up a lot. >>>> Working on local working copies of the code will speed up debugging, > I'm pretty sure. > > Cheers > > Michael M _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.829 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2928 - Release Date: 06/12/10 04:35:00 From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Jun 12 01:28:04 2010 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 23:28:04 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Multi-project solution In-Reply-To: <4C131054.8000607@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4C129B6C.2050003@colbyconsulting.com> <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B5B5F@ddi-01.DDI.local> <4C12FBD9.2080607@colbyconsulting.com> <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B5B60@ddi-01.DDI.local> <4C131054.8000607@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <75AC861440B44578AC70B58EE13DDD07@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi John: I do not know what you are doing as some applications I have built have been tested at over a hundred users with no loss in performance. I could imagine that several hundred users might adversely affect performance but not just a few... it just does not make sense. With the horse power you have and just starting a few applications, the system should barely register the initial connection. Something sounds very wrong. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 9:43 PM To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues. Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Multi-project solution There are no projects that are stable. I just hired a fella to work with me because I have so much dev to do I couldn't do it all myself. The version control system repository is on the server because the server has mongo raid 6 arrays with room and redundancy. I never really realized that things would slow down so much when accessed from workstations because I never developed this way until now. The solution code all operates against the server, IOW it causes execution of stored procedures that perform massive table operations on the server. Likewise the files imported / exported are stored on the server because... there is a massive RAID 6 array with storage and redundancy. Not to mention that the server itself has massive memory etc. That is only getting more so in the future. My server is about to go to a truly massive (to me) system with 16-24 cores and 32G-64G of RAM. So I set it all up to just be on the server and I used remote desktop to get in and work. That really isn't optimum having the actual application EXECUTE on the server, or for that matter to have two people actively developing code on the server - that is what workstations are for. But the server is the most powerful machine in house by far so storage and SQL Server processing is and will continue to execute there. It isn't clear why the debug stepping is so slow, however it is certainly not unique to me. I Googled it and found just dozens of threads on dozens of sites regarding this issue. It also isn't clear that Projects are the reason per se for the slow debug stuff. As long as everything works, using many projects is not too big an issue but when you start repeatedly searching through all of the project properties dialogs it becomes tedious. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Michael Maddison wrote: > John, > >>>> inline > > Michael, > > It's not so much the using / references as having a copy of all of the > properties in each project. > > I originally developed the code directly on the server. I used remote > desktop to log in, it was > just me, everything is "fine". Then I hired a fine fella to help me, > and started trying to get > organized. Set up a workstation for him, started getting the whole > thing running from the > workstation. > > Now the code running from either workstation takes about 10 times as > long to compile ( a couple of > seconds directly on the server... that long for EACH PROJECT on either > workstation. You can > actually watch it compile project by project. That isn't huge, it just > takes 15 or 20 seconds to do > a compile now instead of 2 or 3. > >>>> You can set the build properties of each project in the solution. > Right click on Solution --> > Configuration manager --> untick the projects that don't require > building each time you run the solution. > > However... > > Debug takes about a second or two PER STEP on the workstations. No se > por que. However when I > Google that I get a TON of hits. With a TON of DIFFERENT "go into the > project / properties / > somespecifictab and look for...". Well guess what, I now have a half > dozen projects to do this with. > > That SUCKS! I haven't found the fix, but I have spent a TON of time > going in time after time, > project after project searching through the properties stuff to see if I > have the specific fix that > worked for developer XYZ. > >>>> I can't say I've had to do more than run with the defaults. > > It is waaaay more than just a reference and a using... > >>>> It seems you are developing on code shared from the server? Is that > right? I can't help with that > other to advise setting up Subversion and developing locally. Am I > missing the point? > > I can see how projects would be cool if they are going to be pieces of > many different solutions, > however mine aren't, they are just an organizational tool for my single > solution. And yes, they > make organization neat however there is a rather large price IMHO. > >>>> Yes but, disabling build on the projects that are stable will speed > build up a lot. >>>> Working on local working copies of the code will speed up debugging, > I'm pretty sure. > > Cheers > > Michael M _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Sat Jun 12 01:43:11 2010 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 10:43:11 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Multi-project solution In-Reply-To: <4C129B6C.2050003@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4C129B6C.2050003@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <0D4E7CC84928475597C81E96C7D984BE@nant> Hi John -- You can just keep your "solution's wide" settings defined on lowest level class library. Or one level up from lowest level class library: - bottom level class lib: MyUtilities.ClassLib.dll - one level up from the bottom class lib: MyAppsSettings.ClassLib.dll ... <<< Is it just me or is this project thing a lot of extra effort for what you get? >>> It needs a bit more extra efforts when you're using multi-project solutions but it gives a lot more flexibility... And I have found I do often use "copy & paste ugly development approach" when I'm starting developing "MyAppSettings.ClassLib.dll" for the next multi-project solution - you'll probably try to make this level classlib very generic - I have found it doesn't worth to do that - you may find I was wrong... And I have developed more than 50(?) multi-project solutions by now with up to 10 or more projects within a solution... I must also say I rarely use built-in settings handling approach - I do use my own XML settings files (often several such settings files for a solution), and I do handle them by using LINQ for XML - near to zero efforts to load and save settings files, but some more efforts for settings properties (getters/setters) wrapping code (up to several hours of work for a large sets of settings files) - and a lot more of flexibility comparing to standard settings handling approach... Thank you. - Shamil P.S. Once set/saved computer level standard settings are saved somewhere on the target system - I'm still to find where I must say - I'm "all years" to know where they are saved... -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2010 12:24 AM To: VBA Subject: [dba-VB] Multi-project solution I launched in to building a C# application where I divided the solution into projects. It certainly seems to make sense, a solution can have multiple solutions, and each solution becomes an arm in a tree structure inside of the solution. OTOH each project has an entire set of properties all it's own. They are not inherited from parent (solution) properties. I don't claim to be any guru but it sure seems that many of the properties in the project really should apply to the entire solution. For example each project has a properties.Settings. However there is no Solution.properties object at all AFAICT, never mind a Solution.Properties.Settings. Thus (for example) I have a server name, a bunch of paths on the server etc. All of those things have to be declared over and over in each project's Properties.Setting or... have to be declared in one specific project and then that project referenced in every other project. Is it just me or is this project thing a lot of extra effort for what you get? What specifically DO you get? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Sat Jun 12 01:49:44 2010 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 10:49:44 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Multi-project solution In-Reply-To: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B5B5F@ddi-01.DDI.local> References: <4C129B6C.2050003@colbyconsulting.com> <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B5B5F@ddi-01.DDI.local> Message-ID: <12AA28879C844583BF8F98C30BBE482B@nant> <<< Colby.DBFH.Forms Colby.DBFH.Data Colby.DBFH.Data.Services Colby.DBFH.Data.Entities Colby.DBFH.Data.Providers Colby.DBFH.Tools Colby.DBFH.Settings >>> Michael and John -- I do almost always add Colby.DBFH.WinForms.Controls (or WPF.Controls for WPF based UI solutions) to keep UserControls used by Colby.DBFH.Forms level... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael Maddison Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2010 6:39 AM To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues. Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Multi-project solution Hi John, I think it's you bud :-) I think most people quite like compartmentalising their code using projects and NameSpaces. Adding a ref or Using is a small price to pay IMO. If your project is an internal project for your DBFH then 1 solution and 1 project is probably fine for you. However, I'd still break it down using namespaces, something like... Colby.DBFH.Forms Colby.DBFH.Data Colby.DBFH.Data.Services Colby.DBFH.Data.Entities Colby.DBFH.Data.Providers Colby.DBFH.Tools Colby.DBFH.Settings Each namespace can be it's own project or all mixed together any way you like. Put your classes in the appropriate namespaces and as the solution grows you will be able to keep organised. (and it looks nice in object explorer) HTH Michael M I launched in to building a C# application where I divided the solution into projects. It certainly seems to make sense, a solution can have multiple solutions, and each solution becomes an arm in a tree structure inside of the solution. OTOH each project has an entire set of properties all it's own. They are not inherited from parent (solution) properties. I don't claim to be any guru but it sure seems that many of the properties in the project really should apply to the entire solution. For example each project has a properties.Settings. However there is no Solution.properties object at all AFAICT, never mind a Solution.Properties.Settings. Thus (for example) I have a server name, a bunch of paths on the server etc. All of those things have to be declared over and over in each project's Properties.Setting or... have to be declared in one specific project and then that project referenced in every other project. Is it just me or is this project thing a lot of extra effort for what you get? What specifically DO you get? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.829 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2928 - Release Date: 06/11/10 04:35:00 _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Sat Jun 12 02:04:12 2010 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 11:04:12 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Multi-project solution In-Reply-To: <4C12FBD9.2080607@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4C129B6C.2050003@colbyconsulting.com><59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B5B5F@ddi-01.DDI.local> <4C12FBD9.2080607@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Hi John - So you keep all your source code on server side and that makes your debugging sessions on workstations very slow? I must say I have never tried to do that - I'm keeping all my code locally, and if worked in a team I'd have kept code repository on the server under SCC (Mercurial or others), and I'd have had debugging sessions running using current local copy of sources... When debugging multi-projects solutions locally I have not seen any significant slow downs - and compiling multi-project solutions takes a bit more time when code edits are done on the common level classlib projects... As I have heard VS2010 should provide a more powerful edit & continue debugging mode than VS2008 do, and then even if code changes will be done while debugging on low level classlibs you should be able to continue debugging without recompiling. Please "try before you buy VS2010" - I haven't yet tried how advanced this new feature is - I have just heard about it. And VS2010 does also have (I have heard) "step/play back" debugging feature - when you can set/move current breakpoint several code lines back (/several call stack levels up) and all the in-memory debugging context will be reset back properly... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2010 7:16 AM To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues. Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Multi-project solution Michael, It's not so much the using / references as having a copy of all of the properties in each project. I originally developed the code directly on the server. I used remote desktop to log in, it was just me, everything is "fine". Then I hired a fine fella to help me, and started trying to get organized. Set up a workstation for him, started getting the whole thing running from the workstation. Now the code running from either workstation takes about 10 times as long to compile ( a couple of seconds directly on the server... that long for EACH PROJECT on either workstation. You can actually watch it compile project by project. That isn't huge, it just takes 15 or 20 seconds to do a compile now instead of 2 or 3. However... Debug takes about a second or two PER STEP on the workstations. No se por que. However when I Google that I get a TON of hits. With a TON of DIFFERENT "go into the project / properties / somespecifictab and look for...". Well guess what, I now have a half dozen projects to do this with. That SUCKS! I haven't found the fix, but I have spent a TON of time going in time after time, project after project searching through the properties stuff to see if I have the specific fix that worked for developer XYZ. It is waaaay more than just a reference and a using... I can see how projects would be cool if they are going to be pieces of many different solutions, however mine aren't, they are just an organizational tool for my single solution. And yes, they make organization neat however there is a rather large price IMHO. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Michael Maddison wrote: > Hi John, > > I think it's you bud :-) > I think most people quite like compartmentalising their code using > projects and NameSpaces. > Adding a ref or Using is a small price to pay IMO. > > If your project is an internal project for your DBFH then 1 solution and > 1 project is probably fine for you. > However, I'd still break it down using namespaces, something like... > Colby.DBFH.Forms > Colby.DBFH.Data > Colby.DBFH.Data.Services > Colby.DBFH.Data.Entities > Colby.DBFH.Data.Providers > Colby.DBFH.Tools > Colby.DBFH.Settings > > > Each namespace can be it's own project or all mixed together any way you > like. Put your classes in the appropriate namespaces and > as the solution grows you will be able to keep organised. (and it looks > nice in object explorer) > > > HTH > > Michael M > > > > I launched in to building a C# application where I divided the solution > into projects. > > It certainly seems to make sense, a solution can have multiple > solutions, and each solution becomes > an arm in a tree structure inside of the solution. > > OTOH each project has an entire set of properties all it's own. They > are not inherited from parent > (solution) properties. I don't claim to be any guru but it sure seems > that many of the properties > in the project really should apply to the entire solution. For example > each project has a > properties.Settings. However there is no Solution.properties object at > all AFAICT, never mind a > Solution.Properties.Settings. Thus (for example) I have a server name, > a bunch of paths on the > server etc. All of those things have to be declared over and over in > each project's > Properties.Setting or... have to be declared in one specific project and > then that project > referenced in every other project. > > Is it just me or is this project thing a lot of extra effort for what > you get? What specifically DO > you get? > _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marklbreen at gmail.com Sat Jun 12 03:17:59 2010 From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen) Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 09:17:59 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Fwd: SQL Server / 2003 server locks up In-Reply-To: References: <4C100B9E.5080107@colbyconsulting.com> <4C10DC89.2030802@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Hello John, I completely echo what Hans-Christian says about TortiseSVN. It is one level of comlexity less that doing your checkins in VS. When I ran into compatability issues between Tortise and AnKH, I de-installed AnKH and now happily checkin from the Windows Explorer. It has the added benefit that I do not clutter the solution with overlaid icons also. I know, I know "but I cannot see what needs to be checked in when I am in VS", but you can easily flick over to Win Explorer and you can still do all the check-ins there, only it might be safer. Having said all of that, Joel Spolsky believes that Mecurial is the way of the future with SCCS. I installed Mecurial last week and had it up and running in ten minutes, it is conceptually different than SubVersion. I value Joel's opinion, so I am thinking of switching completely to Mecurial. However, I am trying to decide whether to run it solely from the command line - have to admit I do not favour that - but it might be fun to try. Thanks Mark On 10 June 2010 22:31, Hans-Christian Andersen wrote: > John, > > Without looking at code, it would be hard to determine if the issue you are > suffering from is related to deadlocks or race conditions or misbehaving > code in your thread model or whatnot... nor is it out of the realm of > possibility that SQL Server itself is causing the operating system to hang > at a time of high load from your application, due to its own internal > operations. > > But by performance graphs, I'm referring to something that collects data of > your system (cpu, networking, memory, paging, database queries/loads, etc) > and provides graphs or raw data for you to get a general idea of where the > problem may lie (take one of my servers, for example: > > http://kungfusus.gotdns.com/munin/localdomain/localhost.localdomain/index.html > ). > On my side of the fence in *nix land, I use something called Munin which > does such a thing. I believe there's even a Munin node for Windows, > although > I'm sure there are solutions that suit the Windows environment far better ( > ie. http://www.monitortools.com/ ). > > Long story short, while it may not necessarily spell out what your exact > problem is, at least you have some information about the mental state of > your server in the last moments before it shuffled off this mortal coil... > and > this can be quite useful in narrowing down where the problem is. > > But, I have to say, it doesn't seem like you are doing anything too > 'exotic', and considering that SQL Server is used by governments and big > enterprise, I'd be surprised if there were serious stability problems > merely > from the process of exporting and importing. > > With regards to VisualSVN, well, personally, I do all my subversioning from > the command line, because I felt relying too much on a GUI would one day > put > me at a disadvantage, but I recommend http://tortoisesvn.tigris.org/ . It > integrates with Windows Explorer, so it's a level deeper than a plug-in for > Visual Studio and has always worked rather reliably. > > However, it would be interesting to see if moving your app off to > a separate workstation solves the problem... I think that would raise more > questions than it would answer though! :p > > Hans-Christian > Software Developer, UK > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > tel: +44 (0)782 894 5456 > e-mail: hans.andersen at phulse.com > www: nokenode.com > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > Unique Gifts, Collectables, Artwork > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > Come one > Come all to > www.corinnajasmine.com > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > > From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Sat Jun 12 06:00:38 2010 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 15:00:38 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Fwd: SQL Server / 2003 server locks up In-Reply-To: References: <4C100B9E.5080107@colbyconsulting.com><4C10DC89.2030802@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <<< Having said all of that, Joel Spolsky believes that Mercurial is the way of the future with SCCS... >>> Hi Mark -- I suppose that Joel is 100% sure "that Mecurial is the way of the future with SCCS" - either I do :) <<< However, I am trying to decide whether to run it solely from the command line - have to admit I do not favour that - but it might be fun to try. >>> No need to use it that "advanced" way - you can use it directly from VS's Solutions window, or from Windows Explorer "right-click" menus... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Breen Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2010 12:18 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] Fwd: SQL Server / 2003 server locks up Hello John, I completely echo what Hans-Christian says about TortiseSVN. It is one level of comlexity less that doing your checkins in VS. When I ran into compatability issues between Tortise and AnKH, I de-installed AnKH and now happily checkin from the Windows Explorer. It has the added benefit that I do not clutter the solution with overlaid icons also. I know, I know "but I cannot see what needs to be checked in when I am in VS", but you can easily flick over to Win Explorer and you can still do all the check-ins there, only it might be safer. Having said all of that, Joel Spolsky believes that Mecurial is the way of the future with SCCS. I installed Mecurial last week and had it up and running in ten minutes, it is conceptually different than SubVersion. I value Joel's opinion, so I am thinking of switching completely to Mecurial. However, I am trying to decide whether to run it solely from the command line - have to admit I do not favour that - but it might be fun to try. Thanks Mark On 10 June 2010 22:31, Hans-Christian Andersen wrote: > John, > > Without looking at code, it would be hard to determine if the issue you are > suffering from is related to deadlocks or race conditions or misbehaving > code in your thread model or whatnot... nor is it out of the realm of > possibility that SQL Server itself is causing the operating system to hang > at a time of high load from your application, due to its own internal > operations. > > But by performance graphs, I'm referring to something that collects data of > your system (cpu, networking, memory, paging, database queries/loads, etc) > and provides graphs or raw data for you to get a general idea of where the > problem may lie (take one of my servers, for example: > > http://kungfusus.gotdns.com/munin/localdomain/localhost.localdomain/index.ht ml > ). > On my side of the fence in *nix land, I use something called Munin which > does such a thing. I believe there's even a Munin node for Windows, > although > I'm sure there are solutions that suit the Windows environment far better ( > ie. http://www.monitortools.com/ ). > > Long story short, while it may not necessarily spell out what your exact > problem is, at least you have some information about the mental state of > your server in the last moments before it shuffled off this mortal coil... > and > this can be quite useful in narrowing down where the problem is. > > But, I have to say, it doesn't seem like you are doing anything too > 'exotic', and considering that SQL Server is used by governments and big > enterprise, I'd be surprised if there were serious stability problems > merely > from the process of exporting and importing. > > With regards to VisualSVN, well, personally, I do all my subversioning from > the command line, because I felt relying too much on a GUI would one day > put > me at a disadvantage, but I recommend http://tortoisesvn.tigris.org/ . It > integrates with Windows Explorer, so it's a level deeper than a plug-in for > Visual Studio and has always worked rather reliably. > > However, it would be interesting to see if moving your app off to > a separate workstation solves the problem... I think that would raise more > questions than it would answer though! :p > > Hans-Christian > Software Developer, UK > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > tel: +44 (0)782 894 5456 > e-mail: hans.andersen at phulse.com > www: nokenode.com > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > Unique Gifts, Collectables, Artwork > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > Come one > Come all to > www.corinnajasmine.com > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > > _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Jun 12 08:00:43 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 09:00:43 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Multi-project solution In-Reply-To: <75AC861440B44578AC70B58EE13DDD07@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4C129B6C.2050003@colbyconsulting.com> <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B5B5F@ddi-01.DDI.local> <4C12FBD9.2080607@colbyconsulting.com> <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B5B60@ddi-01.DDI.local> <4C131054.8000607@colbyconsulting.com> <75AC861440B44578AC70B58EE13DDD07@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4C1384FB.5040406@colbyconsulting.com> The application itself runs just fine. It is only while stepping through in debug mode that performance issues occur. And again, this is a common problem. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&as_q=c%23+single+step+very+slow&as_epq=&as_oq=&as_eq=&num=10&lr=&as_filetype=&ft=i&as_sitesearch=&as_qdr=all&as_rights=&as_occt=any&cr=&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&safe=images John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi John: > > I do not know what you are doing as some applications I have built have been > tested at over a hundred users with no loss in performance. I could imagine > that several hundred users might adversely affect performance but not just a > few... it just does not make sense. > > With the horse power you have and just starting a few applications, the > system should barely register the initial connection. > > Something sounds very wrong. > > Jim > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 9:43 PM > To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues. > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Multi-project solution > > There are no projects that are stable. I just hired a fella to work with me > because I have so much > dev to do I couldn't do it all myself. > > The version control system repository is on the server because the server > has mongo raid 6 arrays > with room and redundancy. I never really realized that things would slow > down so much when accessed > from workstations because I never developed this way until now. > > The solution code all operates against the server, IOW it causes execution > of stored procedures that > perform massive table operations on the server. Likewise the files imported > / exported are stored > on the server because... there is a massive RAID 6 array with storage and > redundancy. Not to > mention that the server itself has massive memory etc. That is only getting > more so in the future. > My server is about to go to a truly massive (to me) system with 16-24 > cores and 32G-64G of RAM. > > So I set it all up to just be on the server and I used remote desktop to get > in and work. That > really isn't optimum having the actual application EXECUTE on the server, or > for that matter to have > two people actively developing code on the server - that is what > workstations are for. But the > server is the most powerful machine in house by far so storage and SQL > Server processing is and will > continue to execute there. > > It isn't clear why the debug stepping is so slow, however it is certainly > not unique to me. I > Googled it and found just dozens of threads on dozens of sites regarding > this issue. It also isn't > clear that Projects are the reason per se for the slow debug stuff. > > As long as everything works, using many projects is not too big an issue but > when you start > repeatedly searching through all of the project properties dialogs it > becomes tedious. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Jun 12 08:14:23 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 09:14:23 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Multi-project solution In-Reply-To: References: <4C129B6C.2050003@colbyconsulting.com><59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B5B5F@ddi-01.DDI.local> <4C12FBD9.2080607@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4C13882F.6080007@colbyconsulting.com> Shamil, > So you keep all your source code on server side and that makes your debugging sessions on workstations very slow? I must say I have never tried to do that - I'm keeping all my code locally, and if worked in a team I'd have kept code repository on the server under SCC (Mercurial or others), and I'd have had debugging sessions running using current local copy of sources... I did not (intend to) say that the location of the source code had anything to do with the debug stepping slowness (or the compile slowness for that matter). I have not determined what causes the slowness so I am not assigning responsibility. I merely said that the problem never occurred when I ran everything through a remote desktop directly on the server, and started to occur when I started actually trying to develop on the workstation. I am using source control - VisualSVN over Tortoise. The source repository is on the server but the workstations check out to a local directory in the normal Visual Studio Project path under each user on the workstation. So the actual code being compiled is on the local workstation. None the less the compile time is probably 10 times as long. What causes that? Who knows. The server is the last gen AMD quad core, running windows 2003 X64, 16Gigs ram and raid6 array disks. The workstations are 2 generation old AMD quad core running Windows XP X32 or Vista X32, with 4 gigs of ram and a normal hard drive. Something in there could explain it. I imagine that compile time and debug step time are pretty much separate issues however. And I haven't found a fix for the debug step time so I do not have the answer as to why it occurs. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote: > Hi John - > > So you keep all your source code on server side and that makes your > debugging sessions on workstations very slow? > > I must say I have never tried to do that - I'm keeping all my code locally, > and if worked in a team I'd have kept code repository on the server under > SCC (Mercurial or others), and I'd have had debugging sessions running using > current local copy of sources... > > When debugging multi-projects solutions locally I have not seen any > significant slow downs - and compiling multi-project solutions takes a bit > more time when code edits are done on the common level classlib projects... > > As I have heard VS2010 should provide a more powerful edit & continue > debugging mode than VS2008 do, and then even if code changes will be done > while debugging on low level classlibs you should be able to continue > debugging without recompiling. Please "try before you buy VS2010" - I > haven't yet tried how advanced this new feature is - I have just heard about > it. And VS2010 does also have (I have heard) "step/play back" debugging > feature - when you can set/move current breakpoint several code lines back > (/several call stack levels up) and all the in-memory debugging context will > be reset back properly... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2010 7:16 AM > To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues. > Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Multi-project solution > > Michael, > > It's not so much the using / references as having a copy of all of the > properties in each project. > > I originally developed the code directly on the server. I used remote > desktop to log in, it was > just me, everything is "fine". Then I hired a fine fella to help me, and > started trying to get > organized. Set up a workstation for him, started getting the whole thing > running from the > workstation. > > Now the code running from either workstation takes about 10 times as long to > compile ( a couple of > seconds directly on the server... that long for EACH PROJECT on either > workstation. You can > actually watch it compile project by project. That isn't huge, it just > takes 15 or 20 seconds to do > a compile now instead of 2 or 3. However... > > Debug takes about a second or two PER STEP on the workstations. No se por > que. However when I > Google that I get a TON of hits. With a TON of DIFFERENT "go into the > project / properties / > somespecifictab and look for...". Well guess what, I now have a half dozen > projects to do this with. > > That SUCKS! I haven't found the fix, but I have spent a TON of time going > in time after time, > project after project searching through the properties stuff to see if I > have the specific fix that > worked for developer XYZ. > > It is waaaay more than just a reference and a using... > > I can see how projects would be cool if they are going to be pieces of many > different solutions, > however mine aren't, they are just an organizational tool for my single > solution. And yes, they > make organization neat however there is a rather large price IMHO. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Michael Maddison wrote: >> Hi John, >> >> I think it's you bud :-) >> I think most people quite like compartmentalising their code using >> projects and NameSpaces. >> Adding a ref or Using is a small price to pay IMO. >> >> If your project is an internal project for your DBFH then 1 solution and >> 1 project is probably fine for you. >> However, I'd still break it down using namespaces, something like... >> Colby.DBFH.Forms >> Colby.DBFH.Data >> Colby.DBFH.Data.Services >> Colby.DBFH.Data.Entities >> Colby.DBFH.Data.Providers >> Colby.DBFH.Tools >> Colby.DBFH.Settings >> >> >> Each namespace can be it's own project or all mixed together any way you >> like. Put your classes in the appropriate namespaces and >> as the solution grows you will be able to keep organised. (and it looks >> nice in object explorer) >> >> >> HTH >> >> Michael M >> >> >> >> I launched in to building a C# application where I divided the solution >> into projects. >> >> It certainly seems to make sense, a solution can have multiple >> solutions, and each solution becomes >> an arm in a tree structure inside of the solution. >> >> OTOH each project has an entire set of properties all it's own. They >> are not inherited from parent >> (solution) properties. I don't claim to be any guru but it sure seems >> that many of the properties >> in the project really should apply to the entire solution. For example >> each project has a >> properties.Settings. However there is no Solution.properties object at >> all AFAICT, never mind a >> Solution.Properties.Settings. Thus (for example) I have a server name, >> a bunch of paths on the >> server etc. All of those things have to be declared over and over in >> each project's >> Properties.Setting or... have to be declared in one specific project and >> then that project >> referenced in every other project. >> >> Is it just me or is this project thing a lot of extra effort for what >> you get? What specifically DO >> you get? >> > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Jun 12 08:19:40 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 09:19:40 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Fwd: SQL Server / 2003 server locks up In-Reply-To: References: <4C100B9E.5080107@colbyconsulting.com> <4C10DC89.2030802@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4C13896C.5080304@colbyconsulting.com> I am quite happy with VisualSVN over Tortoise. I have had a couple of conflicts that I had to settle but it wasn't a big deal. OTOH it is only Paul and I doing the development. We both found VisualSVN to be just dead simple to use and "if it ain't broke". I installed Mercurial but I did not uninstall VisualSVN and that was really confusing. I am open to Mercurial but it really seemed to be a solution for large team development, and specifically making specific things that I do not do easy to do (branching and such). At this point, I only have one project, and I am the only user and one of two users. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Mark Breen wrote: > Hello John, > > I completely echo what Hans-Christian says about TortiseSVN. It is one > level of comlexity less that doing your checkins in VS. When I ran into > compatability issues between Tortise and AnKH, I de-installed AnKH and now > happily checkin from the Windows Explorer. It has the added benefit that I > do not clutter the solution with overlaid icons also. > > I know, I know "but I cannot see what needs to be checked in when I am in > VS", but you can easily flick over to Win Explorer and you can still do all > the check-ins there, only it might be safer. > > Having said all of that, Joel Spolsky believes that Mecurial is the way of > the future with SCCS. > > I installed Mecurial last week and had it up and running in ten minutes, it > is conceptually different than SubVersion. I value Joel's opinion, so I am > thinking of switching completely to Mecurial. However, I am trying to > decide whether to run it solely from the command line - have to admit I do > not favour that - but it might be fun to try. > > Thanks > > Mark > > > On 10 June 2010 22:31, Hans-Christian Andersen wrote: > >> John, >> >> Without looking at code, it would be hard to determine if the issue you are >> suffering from is related to deadlocks or race conditions or misbehaving >> code in your thread model or whatnot... nor is it out of the realm of >> possibility that SQL Server itself is causing the operating system to hang >> at a time of high load from your application, due to its own internal >> operations. >> >> But by performance graphs, I'm referring to something that collects data of >> your system (cpu, networking, memory, paging, database queries/loads, etc) >> and provides graphs or raw data for you to get a general idea of where the >> problem may lie (take one of my servers, for example: >> >> http://kungfusus.gotdns.com/munin/localdomain/localhost.localdomain/index.html >> ). >> On my side of the fence in *nix land, I use something called Munin which >> does such a thing. I believe there's even a Munin node for Windows, >> although >> I'm sure there are solutions that suit the Windows environment far better ( >> ie. http://www.monitortools.com/ ). >> >> Long story short, while it may not necessarily spell out what your exact >> problem is, at least you have some information about the mental state of >> your server in the last moments before it shuffled off this mortal coil... >> and >> this can be quite useful in narrowing down where the problem is. >> >> But, I have to say, it doesn't seem like you are doing anything too >> 'exotic', and considering that SQL Server is used by governments and big >> enterprise, I'd be surprised if there were serious stability problems >> merely >> from the process of exporting and importing. >> >> With regards to VisualSVN, well, personally, I do all my subversioning from >> the command line, because I felt relying too much on a GUI would one day >> put >> me at a disadvantage, but I recommend http://tortoisesvn.tigris.org/ . It >> integrates with Windows Explorer, so it's a level deeper than a plug-in for >> Visual Studio and has always worked rather reliably. >> >> However, it would be interesting to see if moving your app off to >> a separate workstation solves the problem... I think that would raise more >> questions than it would answer though! :p >> >> Hans-Christian >> Software Developer, UK >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------- >> tel: +44 (0)782 894 5456 >> e-mail: hans.andersen at phulse.com >> www: nokenode.com >> ----------------------------------------------------------------- >> Unique Gifts, Collectables, Artwork >> ----------------------------------------------------------------- >> Come one >> Come all to >> www.corinnajasmine.com >> ----------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From marklbreen at gmail.com Sun Jun 13 06:06:25 2010 From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen) Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2010 12:06:25 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Fwd: SQL Server / 2003 server locks up In-Reply-To: <4C13896C.5080304@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4C100B9E.5080107@colbyconsulting.com> <4C10DC89.2030802@colbyconsulting.com> <4C13896C.5080304@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Hello John, Let me say, I am not religious on almost any topics (with the possible exception of the best motorcycles), so I am not favouring Mecurial over Subversion religiously. But here is the problem. Even if you have one programmer - and you already have two you have the scenario that you work, work, work and then test a routine. You think that it is good, and want to preserve that current version. But you really do not want to check it in to you repository. So what do you do? One option is quickly xcopy some files (this is surely the medieval option). Another choice is check in and be-dammed. Third Choice is copy to notepad and hope that we do not have a power cut. Now with two programmers this gets even worse, Paul works all day and does not check in, in the evening time, he wants to check in for safely, but he cannot be sure that there are no breaking changes in his code, so he cannot check in his code or he will break your code. So, result is programmers world wide are afraid to check in their code until they are finished working. I know about this problem when I worked on a three person team that were world wide, so I was never really sure who might check out after I had checked in untested code. In effect I had to operate without SCCS. Mecurial systematically solves that problem. They made is the first goal of the product. In a nutshell, when you install Mecurial you install first a local version, which is your private SCCS. Then later when you hire a guy named Paul, he also gets a private SCCS on his machine. At that point you install a central SCCS and from time to time you can merge your code to the central SCCS. Paul can do the same and Mecurial is built from the ground to assist in this process. It solves the problem I had when I was terrified to check in, but I still wanted local version control. Take 20 minutes and read Joel Spolsky's last ever blog post. After ten years he chose to make it about Mecurial. I see now that FogCreek also has launched a paid for product based on Mecurial so he must be committed. thanks and good luck, Mark On 12 June 2010 14:19, jwcolby wrote: > I am quite happy with VisualSVN over Tortoise. I have had a couple of > conflicts that I had to > settle but it wasn't a big deal. OTOH it is only Paul and I doing the > development. We both found > VisualSVN to be just dead simple to use and "if it ain't broke". > > I installed Mercurial but I did not uninstall VisualSVN and that was really > confusing. I am open to > Mercurial but it really seemed to be a solution for large team development, > and specifically making > specific things that I do not do easy to do (branching and such). At this > point, I only have one > project, and I am the only user and one of two users. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Mark Breen wrote: > > Hello John, > > > > I completely echo what Hans-Christian says about TortiseSVN. It is one > > level of comlexity less that doing your checkins in VS. When I ran into > > compatability issues between Tortise and AnKH, I de-installed AnKH and > now > > happily checkin from the Windows Explorer. It has the added benefit that > I > > do not clutter the solution with overlaid icons also. > > > > I know, I know "but I cannot see what needs to be checked in when I am in > > VS", but you can easily flick over to Win Explorer and you can still do > all > > the check-ins there, only it might be safer. > > > > Having said all of that, Joel Spolsky believes that Mecurial is the way > of > > the future with SCCS. > > > > I installed Mecurial last week and had it up and running in ten minutes, > it > > is conceptually different than SubVersion. I value Joel's opinion, so I > am > > thinking of switching completely to Mecurial. However, I am trying to > > decide whether to run it solely from the command line - have to admit I > do > > not favour that - but it might be fun to try. > > > > Thanks > > > > Mark > > > > > > On 10 June 2010 22:31, Hans-Christian Andersen wrote: > > > >> John, > >> > >> Without looking at code, it would be hard to determine if the issue you > are > >> suffering from is related to deadlocks or race conditions or misbehaving > >> code in your thread model or whatnot... nor is it out of the realm of > >> possibility that SQL Server itself is causing the operating system to > hang > >> at a time of high load from your application, due to its own internal > >> operations. > >> > >> But by performance graphs, I'm referring to something that collects data > of > >> your system (cpu, networking, memory, paging, database queries/loads, > etc) > >> and provides graphs or raw data for you to get a general idea of where > the > >> problem may lie (take one of my servers, for example: > >> > >> > http://kungfusus.gotdns.com/munin/localdomain/localhost.localdomain/index.html > >> ). > >> On my side of the fence in *nix land, I use something called Munin which > >> does such a thing. I believe there's even a Munin node for Windows, > >> although > >> I'm sure there are solutions that suit the Windows environment far > better ( > >> ie. http://www.monitortools.com/ ). > >> > >> Long story short, while it may not necessarily spell out what your exact > >> problem is, at least you have some information about the mental state of > >> your server in the last moments before it shuffled off this mortal > coil... > >> and > >> this can be quite useful in narrowing down where the problem is. > >> > >> But, I have to say, it doesn't seem like you are doing anything too > >> 'exotic', and considering that SQL Server is used by governments and big > >> enterprise, I'd be surprised if there were serious stability problems > >> merely > >> from the process of exporting and importing. > >> > >> With regards to VisualSVN, well, personally, I do all my subversioning > from > >> the command line, because I felt relying too much on a GUI would one day > >> put > >> me at a disadvantage, but I recommend http://tortoisesvn.tigris.org/ . > It > >> integrates with Windows Explorer, so it's a level deeper than a plug-in > for > >> Visual Studio and has always worked rather reliably. > >> > >> However, it would be interesting to see if moving your app off to > >> a separate workstation solves the problem... I think that would raise > more > >> questions than it would answer though! :p > >> > >> Hans-Christian > >> Software Developer, UK > >> > >> ----------------------------------------------------------------- > >> tel: +44 (0)782 894 5456 > >> e-mail: hans.andersen at phulse.com > >> www: nokenode.com > >> ----------------------------------------------------------------- > >> Unique Gifts, Collectables, Artwork > >> ----------------------------------------------------------------- > >> Come one > >> Come all to > >> www.corinnajasmine.com > >> ----------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > >> > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From marklbreen at gmail.com Sun Jun 13 06:10:03 2010 From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen) Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2010 12:10:03 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Fwd: SQL Server / 2003 server locks up In-Reply-To: References: <4C100B9E.5080107@colbyconsulting.com> <4C10DC89.2030802@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Hello Shamil, I did not qute get what you meant below, do you mean that you also believe that Mecurial is the way of the future in SCCS? Did you download and listen to some of Joel and Jeffs podcasts? They are nice to listen to when walking from 08:50 to 09:50 :) Did you also listen to Jeffs views on social interaction on mailing lists versus the coldness of Stackoverflow? thanks Mark On 12 June 2010 12:00, Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote: > <<< > Having said all of that, Joel Spolsky believes > that Mercurial is the way of the future with SCCS... > >>> > Hi Mark -- > > I suppose that Joel is 100% sure "that Mecurial is the way of the future > with SCCS" - either I do :) > > <<< > However, I am trying to > decide whether to run it solely from the command > line - have to admit I do > not favour that - but it might be fun to try. > >>> > No need to use it that "advanced" way - you can use it directly from VS's > Solutions window, or from Windows Explorer "right-click" menus... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Breen > Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2010 12:18 PM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [dba-VB] Fwd: SQL Server / 2003 server locks up > > Hello John, > > I completely echo what Hans-Christian says about TortiseSVN. It is one > level of comlexity less that doing your checkins in VS. When I ran into > compatability issues between Tortise and AnKH, I de-installed AnKH and now > happily checkin from the Windows Explorer. It has the added benefit that I > do not clutter the solution with overlaid icons also. > > I know, I know "but I cannot see what needs to be checked in when I am in > VS", but you can easily flick over to Win Explorer and you can still do all > the check-ins there, only it might be safer. > > Having said all of that, Joel Spolsky believes that Mecurial is the way of > the future with SCCS. > > I installed Mecurial last week and had it up and running in ten minutes, it > is conceptually different than SubVersion. I value Joel's opinion, so I am > thinking of switching completely to Mecurial. However, I am trying to > decide whether to run it solely from the command line - have to admit I do > not favour that - but it might be fun to try. > > Thanks > > Mark > > > On 10 June 2010 22:31, Hans-Christian Andersen wrote: > > > John, > > > > Without looking at code, it would be hard to determine if the issue you > are > > suffering from is related to deadlocks or race conditions or misbehaving > > code in your thread model or whatnot... nor is it out of the realm of > > possibility that SQL Server itself is causing the operating system to > hang > > at a time of high load from your application, due to its own internal > > operations. > > > > But by performance graphs, I'm referring to something that collects data > of > > your system (cpu, networking, memory, paging, database queries/loads, > etc) > > and provides graphs or raw data for you to get a general idea of where > the > > problem may lie (take one of my servers, for example: > > > > > > http://kungfusus.gotdns.com/munin/localdomain/localhost.localdomain/index.ht > ml > > ). > > On my side of the fence in *nix land, I use something called Munin which > > does such a thing. I believe there's even a Munin node for Windows, > > although > > I'm sure there are solutions that suit the Windows environment far better > ( > > ie. http://www.monitortools.com/ ). > > > > Long story short, while it may not necessarily spell out what your exact > > problem is, at least you have some information about the mental state of > > your server in the last moments before it shuffled off this mortal > coil... > > and > > this can be quite useful in narrowing down where the problem is. > > > > But, I have to say, it doesn't seem like you are doing anything too > > 'exotic', and considering that SQL Server is used by governments and big > > enterprise, I'd be surprised if there were serious stability problems > > merely > > from the process of exporting and importing. > > > > With regards to VisualSVN, well, personally, I do all my subversioning > from > > the command line, because I felt relying too much on a GUI would one day > > put > > me at a disadvantage, but I recommend http://tortoisesvn.tigris.org/ . > It > > integrates with Windows Explorer, so it's a level deeper than a plug-in > for > > Visual Studio and has always worked rather reliably. > > > > However, it would be interesting to see if moving your app off to > > a separate workstation solves the problem... I think that would raise > more > > questions than it would answer though! :p > > > > Hans-Christian > > Software Developer, UK > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > tel: +44 (0)782 894 5456 > > e-mail: hans.andersen at phulse.com > > www: nokenode.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > Unique Gifts, Collectables, Artwork > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > Come one > > Come all to > > www.corinnajasmine.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Jun 13 10:22:15 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2010 11:22:15 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Fwd: SQL Server / 2003 server locks up In-Reply-To: References: <4C100B9E.5080107@colbyconsulting.com> <4C10DC89.2030802@colbyconsulting.com> <4C13896C.5080304@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4C14F7A7.4000509@colbyconsulting.com> Mark / Shamil, I would love to go to Murcurial, it is really just a matter of time to figure it out. I was hoping that I would get a "this is how it is done" from one of my listmates, and specifically how to migrate my existing source to murcurial. I am not wedded to VisualSVN, I just have it, know it (it is easy) and am using it. BTW Even VisualSVN stamps commits with version numbers, and it is possible (I assume) to check out a specific version number to work on should a later build break something. At the moment Paul and I work on separate workstations. We do things in small chunks and do just keep them local (don't check in) until we test and it all seems to work, then we check in. Just because of the way I approach development, we are building small enough chunks of stuff that we pretty much build, test and commit all in one work session, two at the most. I am not justifying not switching, but it truly hasn't yet caused a problem simply because of the scale that I work on. It also helps that the user is one of two developers so that if I do hit a snag, I can usually just go fix it rather than filing a bug report and waiting for the dev team to go fix it. What is really going on is that VisualSVN works just like every other Source control system. I am used to the paradigm and it was dead simple to set up and start using. There is enough different with Mercurial that when I tried to go there I was spending time trying to figure out how to do source control, and I didn't have the time to spend. I am sold on the concept, and someday when things quiet down, or when my listmates who use it are willing to hold my hand / walk me through it, I will undoubtedly make the switch. BTW, what are the best motorcycles? Triumph? BSA? Norton? I didn't know that you were into motorcycles. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Mark Breen wrote: > Hello John, > > Let me say, I am not religious on almost any topics (with the possible > exception of the best motorcycles), so I am not favouring Mecurial > over Subversion religiously. > > But here is the problem. Even if you have one programmer - and you already > have two you have the scenario that you work, work, work and then test a > routine. You think that it is good, and want to preserve that current > version. But you really do not want to check it in to you repository. So > what do you do? One option is quickly xcopy some files (this is surely the > medieval option). Another choice is check in and be-dammed. Third Choice > is copy to notepad and hope that we do not have a power cut. > > Now with two programmers this gets even worse, Paul works all day and does > not check in, in the evening time, he wants to check in for safely, but he > cannot be sure that there are no breaking changes in his code, so he cannot > check in his code or he will break your code. So, result is programmers > world wide are afraid to check in their code until they are finished > working. I know about this problem when I worked on a three person team > that were world wide, so I was never really sure who might check out after I > had checked in untested code. > > In effect I had to operate without SCCS. > > Mecurial systematically solves that problem. They made is the first goal of > the product. > > In a nutshell, when you install Mecurial you install first a local version, > which is your private SCCS. Then later when you hire a guy named Paul, he > also gets a private SCCS on his machine. At that point you install a > central SCCS and from time to time you can merge your code to the central > SCCS. Paul can do the same and Mecurial is built from the ground to assist > in this process. > > It solves the problem I had when I was terrified to check in, but I still > wanted local version control. > > Take 20 minutes and read Joel Spolsky's last ever blog post. After ten > years he chose to make it about Mecurial. I see now that FogCreek also has > launched a paid for product based on Mecurial so he must be committed. > > thanks and good luck, > > Mark From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Jun 13 10:45:26 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2010 11:45:26 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Fwd: SQL Server / 2003 server locks up In-Reply-To: References: <4C100B9E.5080107@colbyconsulting.com> <4C10DC89.2030802@colbyconsulting.com> <4C13896C.5080304@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4C14FD16.7010707@colbyconsulting.com> BTW, are you using Mercurial from an add-on inside of Visual Studio? You mentioned that you just used command line source control and I really need a wizard interface, preferably integrated into Visual Studio. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Mark Breen wrote: > Hello John, > > Let me say, I am not religious on almost any topics (with the possible > exception of the best motorcycles), so I am not favouring Mecurial > over Subversion religiously. > > But here is the problem. Even if you have one programmer - and you already > have two you have the scenario that you work, work, work and then test a > routine. You think that it is good, and want to preserve that current > version. But you really do not want to check it in to you repository. So > what do you do? One option is quickly xcopy some files (this is surely the > medieval option). Another choice is check in and be-dammed. Third Choice > is copy to notepad and hope that we do not have a power cut. > > Now with two programmers this gets even worse, Paul works all day and does > not check in, in the evening time, he wants to check in for safely, but he > cannot be sure that there are no breaking changes in his code, so he cannot > check in his code or he will break your code. So, result is programmers > world wide are afraid to check in their code until they are finished > working. I know about this problem when I worked on a three person team > that were world wide, so I was never really sure who might check out after I > had checked in untested code. > > In effect I had to operate without SCCS. > > Mecurial systematically solves that problem. They made is the first goal of > the product. > > In a nutshell, when you install Mecurial you install first a local version, > which is your private SCCS. Then later when you hire a guy named Paul, he > also gets a private SCCS on his machine. At that point you install a > central SCCS and from time to time you can merge your code to the central > SCCS. Paul can do the same and Mecurial is built from the ground to assist > in this process. > > It solves the problem I had when I was terrified to check in, but I still > wanted local version control. > > Take 20 minutes and read Joel Spolsky's last ever blog post. After ten > years he chose to make it about Mecurial. I see now that FogCreek also has > launched a paid for product based on Mecurial so he must be committed. > > thanks and good luck, > > Mark > > > On 12 June 2010 14:19, jwcolby wrote: > >> I am quite happy with VisualSVN over Tortoise. I have had a couple of >> conflicts that I had to >> settle but it wasn't a big deal. OTOH it is only Paul and I doing the >> development. We both found >> VisualSVN to be just dead simple to use and "if it ain't broke". >> >> I installed Mercurial but I did not uninstall VisualSVN and that was really >> confusing. I am open to >> Mercurial but it really seemed to be a solution for large team development, >> and specifically making >> specific things that I do not do easy to do (branching and such). At this >> point, I only have one >> project, and I am the only user and one of two users. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> >> Mark Breen wrote: >>> Hello John, >>> >>> I completely echo what Hans-Christian says about TortiseSVN. It is one >>> level of comlexity less that doing your checkins in VS. When I ran into >>> compatability issues between Tortise and AnKH, I de-installed AnKH and >> now >>> happily checkin from the Windows Explorer. It has the added benefit that >> I >>> do not clutter the solution with overlaid icons also. >>> >>> I know, I know "but I cannot see what needs to be checked in when I am in >>> VS", but you can easily flick over to Win Explorer and you can still do >> all >>> the check-ins there, only it might be safer. >>> >>> Having said all of that, Joel Spolsky believes that Mecurial is the way >> of >>> the future with SCCS. >>> >>> I installed Mecurial last week and had it up and running in ten minutes, >> it >>> is conceptually different than SubVersion. I value Joel's opinion, so I >> am >>> thinking of switching completely to Mecurial. However, I am trying to >>> decide whether to run it solely from the command line - have to admit I >> do >>> not favour that - but it might be fun to try. >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> Mark >>> >>> >>> On 10 June 2010 22:31, Hans-Christian Andersen wrote: >>> >>>> John, >>>> >>>> Without looking at code, it would be hard to determine if the issue you >> are >>>> suffering from is related to deadlocks or race conditions or misbehaving >>>> code in your thread model or whatnot... nor is it out of the realm of >>>> possibility that SQL Server itself is causing the operating system to >> hang >>>> at a time of high load from your application, due to its own internal >>>> operations. >>>> >>>> But by performance graphs, I'm referring to something that collects data >> of >>>> your system (cpu, networking, memory, paging, database queries/loads, >> etc) >>>> and provides graphs or raw data for you to get a general idea of where >> the >>>> problem may lie (take one of my servers, for example: >>>> >>>> >> http://kungfusus.gotdns.com/munin/localdomain/localhost.localdomain/index.html >>>> ). >>>> On my side of the fence in *nix land, I use something called Munin which >>>> does such a thing. I believe there's even a Munin node for Windows, >>>> although >>>> I'm sure there are solutions that suit the Windows environment far >> better ( >>>> ie. http://www.monitortools.com/ ). >>>> >>>> Long story short, while it may not necessarily spell out what your exact >>>> problem is, at least you have some information about the mental state of >>>> your server in the last moments before it shuffled off this mortal >> coil... >>>> and >>>> this can be quite useful in narrowing down where the problem is. >>>> >>>> But, I have to say, it doesn't seem like you are doing anything too >>>> 'exotic', and considering that SQL Server is used by governments and big >>>> enterprise, I'd be surprised if there were serious stability problems >>>> merely >>>> from the process of exporting and importing. >>>> >>>> With regards to VisualSVN, well, personally, I do all my subversioning >> from >>>> the command line, because I felt relying too much on a GUI would one day >>>> put >>>> me at a disadvantage, but I recommend http://tortoisesvn.tigris.org/ . >> It >>>> integrates with Windows Explorer, so it's a level deeper than a plug-in >> for >>>> Visual Studio and has always worked rather reliably. >>>> >>>> However, it would be interesting to see if moving your app off to >>>> a separate workstation solves the problem... I think that would raise >> more >>>> questions than it would answer though! :p >>>> >>>> Hans-Christian >>>> Software Developer, UK >>>> >>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> tel: +44 (0)782 894 5456 >>>> e-mail: hans.andersen at phulse.com >>>> www: nokenode.com >>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> Unique Gifts, Collectables, Artwork >>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> Come one >>>> Come all to >>>> www.corinnajasmine.com >>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> dba-VB mailing list >>> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >>> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-VB mailing list >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Jun 13 22:47:33 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2010 23:47:33 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Meet for a beer Message-ID: <4C15A655.4070001@colbyconsulting.com> I don't drink anymore but... I am flying to Philly tomorrow and driving over to the Jersey side of the Lincoln tunnel for the night. I will be attending a trade show and a meeting Tuesday in Manhattan, then driving back over to Philly Tuesday evening, and will be north of Philly through Friday. I have no idea who might be located in those two areas but if anyone would like to get together any evening except Friday (flying home) email me off line with contact info and I will get in touch. Thanks, -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From dw-murphy at cox.net Mon Jun 14 17:41:42 2010 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2010 15:41:42 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] ASP.NET Excel file locked after reading In-Reply-To: References: <4C129B6C.2050003@colbyconsulting.com><59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B5B5F@ddi-01.DDI.local><4C12FBD9.2080607@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <0DB1278DA0034B4CB17948061725AED2@murphy3234aaf1> Folks, I have an application on a web site that allows users to upload excel files and then import the data into their records. After the file is uploaded there is a routine that reads the header row and then reads the first ten records and then presents a page where the user selects which excel columns go into which field in the table we import into. All that works fine. The problem is that intermittently the excel file is locked, by an open connection I assume, and I can't get access to read in the data for the final import, I just get a error that the file is in use. All connections are closed after use so I can't figure out where the lock is coming from. Some similar postings I have read on the web indicate that forced garbage collection is required for this problem. Any one have similar experience or suggestions to get rid of the locking? Thanks in advance. Doug From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue Jun 15 00:35:46 2010 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2010 07:35:46 +0200 Subject: [dba-VB] ASP.NET Excel file locked after reading Message-ID: Hi Doug Stupid question perhaps, but why do you need to open it more than once? Or to be more precise: Can't you reuse the connection from the view for the import? /gustav >>> dw-murphy at cox.net 15-06-2010 00:41 >>> Folks, I have an application on a web site that allows users to upload excel files and then import the data into their records. After the file is uploaded there is a routine that reads the header row and then reads the first ten records and then presents a page where the user selects which excel columns go into which field in the table we import into. All that works fine. The problem is that intermittently the excel file is locked, by an open connection I assume, and I can't get access to read in the data for the final import, I just get a error that the file is in use. All connections are closed after use so I can't figure out where the lock is coming from. Some similar postings I have read on the web indicate that forced garbage collection is required for this problem. Any one have similar experience or suggestions to get rid of the locking? Thanks in advance. Doug From dw-murphy at cox.net Tue Jun 15 10:08:05 2010 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2010 08:08:05 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] ASP.NET Excel file locked after reading In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Maybe I am doing this wrong, but the first time I read the file I grab the column headers and a few rows and then show post the page to the user so they can correctly match which column goes into which field. After the user selects the columns the re-submit the page and the connection to the file is opened again and the contents read into the appropriate database table. I dont' like to leave connections open as the user may not complete the process. Bottom line is that there are a couple of steps to the process with web pages going back and forth. -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Monday, June 14, 2010 10:36 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ASP.NET Excel file locked after reading Hi Doug Stupid question perhaps, but why do you need to open it more than once? Or to be more precise: Can't you reuse the connection from the view for the import? /gustav >>> dw-murphy at cox.net 15-06-2010 00:41 >>> Folks, I have an application on a web site that allows users to upload excel files and then import the data into their records. After the file is uploaded there is a routine that reads the header row and then reads the first ten records and then presents a page where the user selects which excel columns go into which field in the table we import into. All that works fine. The problem is that intermittently the excel file is locked, by an open connection I assume, and I can't get access to read in the data for the final import, I just get a error that the file is in use. All connections are closed after use so I can't figure out where the lock is coming from. Some similar postings I have read on the web indicate that forced garbage collection is required for this problem. Any one have similar experience or suggestions to get rid of the locking? Thanks in advance. Doug _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue Jun 15 10:27:51 2010 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2010 17:27:51 +0200 Subject: [dba-VB] ASP.NET Excel file locked after reading Message-ID: Hi Doug You are right, don't hold the connection for a time not known. But then you have two asynchronous connections and it may happen that the system is not that fast at releasing the first. Could you either: (Pre)fill a temp table with the data from the worksheet or just make a copy of the worksheet? Then read and import from that table, or read from the copy and import from the original worksheet? Or: Prepare a temp table or worksheet with the columns to view when the worksheet is uploaded? Then, later, import the original worksheet as to the user's choice of columns etc. /gustav >>> dw-murphy at cox.net 15-06-2010 17:08 >>> Maybe I am doing this wrong, but the first time I read the file I grab the column headers and a few rows and then show post the page to the user so they can correctly match which column goes into which field. After the user selects the columns the re-submit the page and the connection to the file is opened again and the contents read into the appropriate database table. I dont' like to leave connections open as the user may not complete the process. Bottom line is that there are a couple of steps to the process with web pages going back and forth. -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Monday, June 14, 2010 10:36 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ASP.NET Excel file locked after reading Hi Doug Stupid question perhaps, but why do you need to open it more than once? Or to be more precise: Can't you reuse the connection from the view for the import? /gustav >>> dw-murphy at cox.net 15-06-2010 00:41 >>> Folks, I have an application on a web site that allows users to upload excel files and then import the data into their records. After the file is uploaded there is a routine that reads the header row and then reads the first ten records and then presents a page where the user selects which excel columns go into which field in the table we import into. All that works fine. The problem is that intermittently the excel file is locked, by an open connection I assume, and I can't get access to read in the data for the final import, I just get a error that the file is in use. All connections are closed after use so I can't figure out where the lock is coming from. Some similar postings I have read on the web indicate that forced garbage collection is required for this problem. Any one have similar experience or suggestions to get rid of the locking? Thanks in advance. Doug From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Wed Jun 16 07:10:00 2010 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 16:10:00 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] C#/VB.NET WebBrowser navigate from worker thread Message-ID: <77E56158A8BB42BA9B1A6036748E0A0D@nant> Hi All -- Did you ever have to do the subject task? It looks like web search http://www.bing.com/search?q=C%23+WebBrowser+navigate+from+worker+thread&go= &form=QBRE&filt=all doesn't give any effective solutions, even more, MSFT advisors tell that this isn't possible "by definition" - first search result in the above search query gives that "useful" reply - http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/netfxcompact/thread/9bd91353-b 49d-4db5-bf3c-08055d2e8023 I suppose I have got a solution by using Timer control. Do you know about any other I missed? - I do not want to "reinvent the wheel" nor do I like that much Timer control-based solution... Thank you. -- Shamil From marklbreen at gmail.com Wed Jun 16 10:58:42 2010 From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 16:58:42 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Fwd: SQL Server / 2003 server locks up In-Reply-To: <4C14F7A7.4000509@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4C100B9E.5080107@colbyconsulting.com> <4C10DC89.2030802@colbyconsulting.com> <4C13896C.5080304@colbyconsulting.com> <4C14F7A7.4000509@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Hello John, [BTW, what are the best motorcycles? Triumph? BSA? Norton?] I have only two pleasures in life and one is BMW Motorcycles :) Mark On 13 June 2010 16:22, jwcolby wrote: > Mark / Shamil, > > I would love to go to Murcurial, it is really just a matter of time to > figure it out. I was hoping > that I would get a "this is how it is done" from one of my listmates, and > specifically how to > migrate my existing source to murcurial. > > I am not wedded to VisualSVN, I just have it, know it (it is easy) and am > using it. > > BTW Even VisualSVN stamps commits with version numbers, and it is possible > (I assume) to check out a > specific version number to work on should a later build break something. > > At the moment Paul and I work on separate workstations. We do things in > small chunks and do just > keep them local (don't check in) until we test and it all seems to work, > then we check in. Just > because of the way I approach development, we are building small enough > chunks of stuff that we > pretty much build, test and commit all in one work session, two at the > most. > > I am not justifying not switching, but it truly hasn't yet caused a problem > simply because of the > scale that I work on. It also helps that the user is one of two developers > so that if I do hit a > snag, I can usually just go fix it rather than filing a bug report and > waiting for the dev team to > go fix it. > > What is really going on is that VisualSVN works just like every other > Source control system. I am > used to the paradigm and it was dead simple to set up and start using. > > There is enough different with Mercurial that when I tried to go there I > was spending time trying to > figure out how to do source control, and I didn't have the time to spend. > I am sold on the concept, > and someday when things quiet down, or when my listmates who use it are > willing to hold my hand / > walk me through it, I will undoubtedly make the switch. > > BTW, what are the best motorcycles? Triumph? BSA? Norton? > > I didn't know that you were into motorcycles. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Mark Breen wrote: > > Hello John, > > > > Let me say, I am not religious on almost any topics (with the possible > > exception of the best motorcycles), so I am not favouring Mecurial > > over Subversion religiously. > > > > But here is the problem. Even if you have one programmer - and you > already > > have two you have the scenario that you work, work, work and then test a > > routine. You think that it is good, and want to preserve that current > > version. But you really do not want to check it in to you repository. > So > > what do you do? One option is quickly xcopy some files (this is surely > the > > medieval option). Another choice is check in and be-dammed. Third > Choice > > is copy to notepad and hope that we do not have a power cut. > > > > Now with two programmers this gets even worse, Paul works all day and > does > > not check in, in the evening time, he wants to check in for safely, but > he > > cannot be sure that there are no breaking changes in his code, so he > cannot > > check in his code or he will break your code. So, result is programmers > > world wide are afraid to check in their code until they are finished > > working. I know about this problem when I worked on a three person team > > that were world wide, so I was never really sure who might check out > after I > > had checked in untested code. > > > > In effect I had to operate without SCCS. > > > > Mecurial systematically solves that problem. They made is the first goal > of > > the product. > > > > In a nutshell, when you install Mecurial you install first a local > version, > > which is your private SCCS. Then later when you hire a guy named Paul, > he > > also gets a private SCCS on his machine. At that point you install a > > central SCCS and from time to time you can merge your code to the central > > SCCS. Paul can do the same and Mecurial is built from the ground to > assist > > in this process. > > > > It solves the problem I had when I was terrified to check in, but I still > > wanted local version control. > > > > Take 20 minutes and read Joel Spolsky's last ever blog post. After ten > > years he chose to make it about Mecurial. I see now that FogCreek also > has > > launched a paid for product based on Mecurial so he must be committed. > > > > thanks and good luck, > > > > Mark > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Jun 16 10:59:43 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 11:59:43 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] internet screen manipulation Message-ID: <4C18F4EF.8080206@colbyconsulting.com> I have a client that has to do data entry into an internet screen. I am researching whether a program can manipulate an internet form, poke values into specific controls, click buttons etc. I have looked at the source for one specific screen and it appears to be all java. For example, top of the screen Professional Claim > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >