[dba-VB] Recent Discussion from MS on VB.Net and C# in VS 2010

...apparently lots of improvements in VS2010 :)

William

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Dan Waters" <dwaters at usinternet.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 4:00 PM
To: "'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'" 
<dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com>
Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Recent Discussion from MS on VB.Net and C# in VS 2010

> In VS 2010 I'm using Regions in VB.Net.  That trade-off is gone.
>
> Dan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman
> Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 2:21 PM
> To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Recent Discussion from MS on VB.Net and C# in VS 
> 2010
>
> ...not just MORE code examples, Max ...a whole lot more ...it was so bad
> when I was first learning .Net that I was forced to decipher numerous C#
> samples (thank god for the free web translators) ...and in the process it
> became evident that although the syntax was different, it wasn't THAT
> different ...and then it dawned on me that I could intermix vb.net with
> c#.net in the same project and VS didn't care ...so much so that I stopped
> translating and started just using C# when that was what I had ...and then
> it became rote to do some things in C# and others in vb.net ...which is
> basically where I am today.
>
> ...I use whatever is most productive for me ...if I knew then what I know
> now, I'd have never wasted a minute learning vb.net ...not because its any
> less capable than C#, but because its in much wider use among those
> producing the type of code I need and therefore much, much more sample 
> code
> is available in it.
>
> ...that is the reason you find me saying C# when people new to net ask 
> which
>
> they should learn.
>
> ...I don't like the brackets any better than anyone else coming from the 
> vb
> world ...but I love regions ...it's a trade off ...and the brackets are 
> not
> nearly as hard to read as you, Charlotte, and Drew are positing ...once 
> you
> get past the short learning curve, they're second nature.
>
> William
> p.s. ...anagnorisis IS a cool word ...had to look it up as well ...have to
> pass that one on to Pamela ;)
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Max Wanadoo" <max.wanadoo at gmail.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 1:58 PM
> To: "'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'"
> <dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com>
> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Recent Discussion from MS on VB.Net and C# in VS 
> 2010
>
>>
>> Hang on, there  is a word I have never heard before....anagnorisis...
>>
>> Hmm, cool word. I will try to remember that.
>>
>> I have to say that I do agree with him. I can recall back in the Cobol
>> days
>> that if you had an error early on, the compile gaily marched on spewing
>> out
>> thousands of cascading "false-positive" errors.  When I looked at the
>> examples on that NetCobol you posted I had to smile and say "..why on
>> earth
>> would I want to go back to that?..."
>>
>> Drews analogy is pretty accurate from what I can see, particulary the 
>> part
>> of about the curly braces emcompassing (and thus defining) the borders of
>> code-structure.  But what structure?  All curly braces look alike.
>>
>> The VBA compiler stops with a very-near exact reason for the
>> non-compilation
>> and, in most case - not all, a reasonable explanation of why.
>>
>> I am not agueing against C# or any other language but rather in the
>> supposition being put forward directly and indirectly that somehow it is 
>> a
>> "better" platform for implementing code. Remember Pascal - I started on
>> that
>> back in Borland days.  That went by the board.  There is no earthly 
>> reason
>> why I would need to do the C#.net route in preference to the VBA.net 
>> route
>> with ONE EXCEPTION and that is the one put forward by William where he
>> stated, inter alia, that there was MORE code examples for plagarism. 
>> Most
>> programmers rely upon examples of others to learn and move forward and
>> code
>> examples are the life blood of learning.
>>
>> I would be interested to see how Charlotte responds.
>>
>>
>> Max
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil
>> Salakhetdinov
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 5:42 PM
>> To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
>> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Recent Discussion from MS on VB.Net and C# in VS
>> 2010
>>
>> Hi Drew --
>>
>> OK. Even if "the only 'accurate' part on my statement is BRIEF" that's
>> good
>> enough for me.
>>
>> Max and Charlotte, do you agree with that Drew's anagnorisis ? :)
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> --Shamil {^;^}
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 8:24 PM
>> To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.
>> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Recent Discussion from MS on VB.Net and C# in VS
>> 2010
>>
>> " curly brackets do enhance code readability, make it unambiguous, clear,
>> relevant, accurate and as brief as possible"
>>
>> The only 'accurate' part of that statement, Shamil, is BRIEF.
>>
>> Unabmiguous.... Nope, If I write Function TestProcess(), I better see an
>> End
>> Function.  Not End If, End Loop, End Sub, I know I am looking for End
>> Function to be on the last line of the function.  With a {....him, now 
>> I'm
>> looking for a }, hey there's one...oh wait, I hit a { first...wait,
>> another
>> {, and another, okay, and here's a }, and oops, another {, crap, is that 
>> 3
>> or 4 {'s, darn, need to go back up.  Or, I could trust the programmers
>> 'perfect ' indentation to verify that the brackets are good...... So is
>> indentation and faith really less ambiguous then finding the first 'End
>> Function'?
>>
>> Clear ...  Hmmmmm, that pretty much is the opposite of ambiguous, thus
>> it's
>> the same as unambiguous.  But I'll smack some more logic on this term for
>> you...after scrolling through a page of code, exactly how does } give me 
>> a
>> clear indication of what just happened?  End If tells me I just hit the
>> end
>> of a logical statement.  End Function tells me I just hit the end of a
>> procedure...... What did } tell me that I just ended?
>>
>> Relevent ...  Hmmm, spilled into this one with Clear..... what again 
>> did }
>> just end?  How is it relevant at the bottom of a page I've scrolled down
>> to
>> get too?
>>
>> Accurate ...  Really?  Odd, if I miss an End if, the compiler will tell
>> me,
>> 'Missing End If', does a C compiler tell you you're missing a }?  I know
>> when I'm writing SQL with a slew of parenthesis, getting told that a ) is
>> missing is like finding a needle in a haystack sometimes.  But getting
>> told,
>> hey, you're missing an End if....MUCH easier to find, because the 
>> language
>> is providing a MORE accurate relevance, which is clearer, and less
>> ambiguous
>> to a human eye/brain, then symbols with tribal meaning.
>>
>> Man, I could do this all day!  And to think I rarely post on this list!
>>
>> ;)
>>
>> Drew
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>> [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil
>> Salakhetdinov
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 7:02 AM
>> To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.'
>> Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Recent Discussion from MS on VB.Net and C# in VS
>> 2010
>>
>> OK, Max :)
>>
>> Not trying to convince you (:)) just noting that curly brackets do 
>> enhance
>> code readability, make it unambiguous, clear, relevant, accurate and as
>> brief as possible - all using just two generic (helping hands) symbols -
>> '{'
>> and '}' . And in most of the cases curly brackets are inalienable
>> (indefeasible, integral, essential) part of the code - remove them and
>> code
>> blocks will become ambiguous...
>>
>> Programming languages do come from mathematics, and therefore (IMO just
>> IMO)
>> using special symbols to keep a programming language syntax as concise 
>> and
>> as unambiguous as possible is a good and productive idea...
>>
>> And in VB(A)(.NET) one have to use the whole set of (natural language)
>> substitutes:
>>
>> - Namespace ... End Namespace
>> - Module ... End Module
>> - Class ... End Class
>> - Sub ... End Sub
>> - Function ... End Function
>> - For ... Next
>> - While ... End While
>> - If .... Then ... End If
>> - ...
>>
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> --
>> Shamil  {^;^}
>>
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