From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri May 7 12:55:27 2010 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 07 May 2010 19:55:27 +0200 Subject: [dba-VB] Cassandra (was: A couple of great articles on latest and greatest) Message-ID: Hi Jim It is not easy to get hold on this monster. Here are some useful links I found: WTF is a SuperColumn? An Intro to the Cassandra Data Model: http://arin.me/blog/wtf-is-a-supercolumn-cassandra-data-model Cassandra Jump Start For The Windows Developer: http://www.coderjournal.com/2010/03/cassandra-jump-start-for-the-windows-developer/ Thrift Wiki. Basic requirements for win32: http://wiki.apache.org/thrift/ThriftInstallationWin32 Nick Berardi's managedfusion / fluentcassandra: FluentCassandra is a .NET library for accessing Cassandra, which wraps the Thrift client library and provides a more fluent POCO interface for accessing and querying the objects in Cassandra. http://github.com/managedfusion/fluentcassandra/blob/master/README.mkd#readme Nick Berardi's C# CasandraDemo: https://code.google.com/p/coderjournal/source/browse/trunk/Posts/2010/03/CassandraDemo.cs So much to read and learn ... /gustav >>> accessd at shaw.ca 07-05-2010 16:25 >>> For a brief moment there Terabyte was the size ultimate but that point passed quickly and the computer world went on to Pentabyte; well that point of ultimate has now again been surpassed as we have Zettabytes. http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2010/may/03/humanity-digital-output-zet tabyte Some latest information from some who have been experimenting with the new super database called Cassandra. Notice through the performances trials the CPU utilization remains flat! The team pushed the product to see where better utilization could be achieved and noted setting caching would help performance... But keep in mind this DBs performance is so far beyond our standard SQLs. http://jamesgolick.com/2010/4/4/two-weeks-with-cassandra.html An aside: It will be a while before the hard drive bottle-neck is really fully resolved. Right now splitting a data store across numerous drives, all indexed and cashed is the only way to lessen the performance pain. That is why the new breed of distributive databases are so fast because they manage the hardware layer so well. Our current crop of standard SQLs just leave the hardware to manage it's self. Jim _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Johncliviger at aol.com Sun May 9 13:23:30 2010 From: Johncliviger at aol.com (Johncliviger at aol.com) Date: Sun, 9 May 2010 14:23:30 EDT Subject: [dba-VB] Moving controls at runtime Message-ID: <14dc4.69e4f4a5.391857a2@aol.com> Hi Guys, I need to permit users at runtime to move controls around a Form. And I've done that my using the Mouse Up, Move and Down events and it even works. Great! But I now need to save/persist those new XY location numbers. After much scratching of the old head I concluded that I should store them in Mysettings. The question is ..is that the best way to save the new settings and some pointers on how to code it will be most useful. A Sunday afternoon has passed without much progress and the dog is ignoring me due to the lack of a walk. TIA john cliviger O yes. I using vb.net 2005 From accessd at shaw.ca Mon May 10 17:03:30 2010 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 15:03:30 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] New unstoppable malware on the horizon In-Reply-To: References: <386C9B6DF71A4523858967C65AD50030@HAL9005> Message-ID: <50437C7E0164474A8DB4BEE7D111F0C6@creativesystemdesigns.com> Now that most of our new computers are multi-cored and capable of running processes in parallel, it appears, unfortunately that most of our software has not taken advance of this new capability or do most programmers even know how to. Here in lies the danger. Our best virus protection software is just designed for single core processes. A company has pointed out the weakness to our situation and how to take advantage of it. It works like the old bait and switch routine. While the current protection software is busy validating some innocuous file or software the malware is busy pushing a zombie through via a parallel process. Very slick: http://www.matousec.com/info/articles/khobe-8.0-earthquake-for-windows-deskt op-security-software.php Now that the knowledge of how to build unstoppable malware is out there how long do we have to wait until our protection software is ready to stop the inevitable flood? Jim From michael at ddisolutions.com.au Wed May 12 18:39:06 2010 From: michael at ddisolutions.com.au (Michael Maddison) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 09:39:06 +1000 Subject: [dba-VB] Web project advice Message-ID: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B59C8@ddi-01.DDI.local> Hi Guys, Just looking for some feedback. I've been asked to quote on a small website for a cattle stud. It's not a complex site but the user has asked for the ability to add/update beast stud info. He says he needs to do this once a year. I've used DNN before but it seems like overkill for this spec. Adding/removing maybe 10 entries a year. Any thoughts/recommendations? Cheers Michael M From ha at phulse.com Wed May 12 18:47:42 2010 From: ha at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 00:47:42 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Web project advice In-Reply-To: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B59C8@ddi-01.DDI.local> References: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B59C8@ddi-01.DDI.local> Message-ID: For something really lightweight and basic, that requires just occasional updates, Wordpress, despite being a blogging platform, makes a very simple to set up and effective cms. I personally use it in that context. Hans-Christian Software Developer, UK ----------------------------------------------------------------- tel: +44 (0)782 894 5456 e-mail: hans.andersen at phulse.com www: nokenode.com ----------------------------------------------------------------- Unique Gifts, Collectables, Artwork ----------------------------------------------------------------- Come one Come all to www.corinnajasmine.com ----------------------------------------------------------------- On 13 May 2010 00:39, Michael Maddison wrote: > Hi Guys, > > > > Just looking for some feedback. > > I've been asked to quote on a small website for a cattle stud. > > It's not a complex site but the user has asked for the ability to > add/update beast stud info. He says he needs to do this once a year. > > I've used DNN before but it seems like overkill for this spec. > > Adding/removing maybe 10 entries a year. > > > > Any thoughts/recommendations? > > > > Cheers > > > > Michael M > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From michael at ddisolutions.com.au Wed May 12 19:03:37 2010 From: michael at ddisolutions.com.au (Michael Maddison) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 10:03:37 +1000 Subject: [dba-VB] Web project advice References: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B59C8@ddi-01.DDI.local> Message-ID: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B59C9@ddi-01.DDI.local> Wow, Never would have thought of that :-) I'll check it out. Cheers Michael -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian Andersen Sent: Thursday, 13 May 2010 9:48 AM To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues. Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Web project advice For something really lightweight and basic, that requires just occasional updates, Wordpress, despite being a blogging platform, makes a very simple to set up and effective cms. I personally use it in that context. Hans-Christian Software Developer, UK ----------------------------------------------------------------- tel: +44 (0)782 894 5456 e-mail: hans.andersen at phulse.com www: nokenode.com ----------------------------------------------------------------- Unique Gifts, Collectables, Artwork ----------------------------------------------------------------- Come one Come all to www.corinnajasmine.com ----------------------------------------------------------------- On 13 May 2010 00:39, Michael Maddison wrote: > Hi Guys, > > > > Just looking for some feedback. > > I've been asked to quote on a small website for a cattle stud. > > It's not a complex site but the user has asked for the ability to > add/update beast stud info. He says he needs to do this once a year. > > I've used DNN before but it seems like overkill for this spec. > > Adding/removing maybe 10 entries a year. > > > > Any thoughts/recommendations? > > > > Cheers > > > > Michael M > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2860 - Release Date: 05/13/10 04:26:00 From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Wed May 12 21:17:23 2010 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 22:17:23 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Web project advice In-Reply-To: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B59C8@ddi-01.DDI.local> References: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B59C8@ddi-01.DDI.local> Message-ID: <0AAC78A97456476EBDEFAE52668BC2B1@jislaptopdev> ...why reinvent the wheel ...just find a stud farm web template ...quick look says there are plenty available. William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Michael Maddison" Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 7:39 PM To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Subject: [dba-VB] Web project advice > Hi Guys, > > > > Just looking for some feedback. > > I've been asked to quote on a small website for a cattle stud. > > It's not a complex site but the user has asked for the ability to > add/update beast stud info. He says he needs to do this once a year. > > I've used DNN before but it seems like overkill for this spec. > > Adding/removing maybe 10 entries a year. > > > > Any thoughts/recommendations? > > > > Cheers > > > > Michael M > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu May 13 01:59:21 2010 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 08:59:21 +0200 Subject: [dba-VB] Web project advice Message-ID: Hi Michael Or Google Apps: http://www.google.com/apps/intl/en/business/sites.html /gustav >>> michael at ddisolutions.com.au 13-05-2010 01:39 >>> Hi Guys, Just looking for some feedback. I've been asked to quote on a small website for a cattle stud. It's not a complex site but the user has asked for the ability to add/update beast stud info. He says he needs to do this once a year. I've used DNN before but it seems like overkill for this spec. Adding/removing maybe 10 entries a year. Any thoughts/recommendations? Cheers Michael M _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Thu May 13 03:02:37 2010 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 12:02:37 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Web project advice In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001e01caf272$a7f0cc50$6501a8c0@nant> <<< Google Apps: >>> Hi Gustav -- Do you know do they (Google Apps) plan to have somehow introduced Mercurial source code control/repositories support? Thank you. --Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 10:59 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Web project advice Hi Michael Or Google Apps: http://www.google.com/apps/intl/en/business/sites.html /gustav >>> michael at ddisolutions.com.au 13-05-2010 01:39 >>> Hi Guys, Just looking for some feedback. I've been asked to quote on a small website for a cattle stud. It's not a complex site but the user has asked for the ability to add/update beast stud info. He says he needs to do this once a year. I've used DNN before but it seems like overkill for this spec. Adding/removing maybe 10 entries a year. Any thoughts/recommendations? Cheers Michael M From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu May 13 05:20:21 2010 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 12:20:21 +0200 Subject: [dba-VB] Web project advice Message-ID: Hi Shamil No, I have no idea. I haven't coded anything with Google tools. /gustav >>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 13-05-2010 10:02 >>> <<< Google Apps: >>> Hi Gustav -- Do you know do they (Google Apps) plan to have somehow introduced Mercurial source code control/repositories support? Thank you. --Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 10:59 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Web project advice Hi Michael Or Google Apps: http://www.google.com/apps/intl/en/business/sites.html /gustav >>> michael at ddisolutions.com.au 13-05-2010 01:39 >>> Hi Guys, Just looking for some feedback. I've been asked to quote on a small website for a cattle stud. It's not a complex site but the user has asked for the ability to add/update beast stud info. He says he needs to do this once a year. I've used DNN before but it seems like overkill for this spec. Adding/removing maybe 10 entries a year. Any thoughts/recommendations? Cheers Michael M From marklbreen at gmail.com Thu May 13 05:19:35 2010 From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 11:19:35 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Web project advice In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Michael, I have set up about 100 sites now with Google apps, I can do them in approx 15 minutes if I have the content. It is free and you get the benefit of corporate quality email as well. Remember you need to select the Standard Edition as opposed to the Premium Edition. It has a list / table style template page which works well. Google Gadgets work really great also, especially the maps and you tube integration HTH, Mark On 13 May 2010 07:59, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Michael > > Or Google Apps: > > http://www.google.com/apps/intl/en/business/sites.html > > /gustav > > > >>> michael at ddisolutions.com.au 13-05-2010 01:39 >>> > Hi Guys, > > > > Just looking for some feedback. > > I've been asked to quote on a small website for a cattle stud. > > It's not a complex site but the user has asked for the ability to > add/update beast stud info. He says he needs to do this once a year. > > I've used DNN before but it seems like overkill for this spec. > > Adding/removing maybe 10 entries a year. > > > > Any thoughts/recommendations? > > > > Cheers > > > > Michael M > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Thu May 13 09:34:53 2010 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 09:34:53 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] Moving controls at runtime In-Reply-To: <14dc4.69e4f4a5.391857a2@aol.com> References: <14dc4.69e4f4a5.391857a2@aol.com> Message-ID: John, I have two methods for tracking this sort of info in the main application I develop on (I'm not into developing much anymore). The application I am referring to is a networked app, that runs on every desktop at my company, so it is possible that the same user would use the app on different machines. So I determine if I want the 'feature' to be remembered by user, or by desktop. By user, I store the data in a table in the database, retrieved when the user logs in. By machine, I store the data in a text file that is loaded and saved when the app starts and stops. I don't have any controls moving around, but I do allow many forms to be resized, and so on the OnLoad event of each form I have a 'FormOpen Me' statement that runs a function with a reference to the form as an argument, which lets the function retrieve the size and position values based on the form name, from the text file data, and then apply that information to the form. On the Unload event, I have 'FormClose Me' which then records the values for the form to be saved in the text file. The app I refer too is a VB 6 app. I use a class module called 'LocalSettings' to store this data. Here's the .ini file that is on my desktop right now for this application: RAdminPath=C:\Program Files (x86)\Radmin Viewer 3\Radmin.exe frmPhoneList-Top=1875 frmPhoneList-Left=1875 frmPhoneList-Width=6780 frmPhoneList-Height=7005 When the app loads, it's populating a collection with the items on the left of the equal sign as the keys and the items on the right as the values. The 'LocalSettings' class simply retrieves, stores, and records those values without caring what they are. So on the FormOpen method, I simply have the following: Me.Top=MyLocalSettings.LocalProperty(Me.Name & "-Top") And so on. Obviously I have a line to determine that there is recorded info for the form, before it moves or resizes anything (the first time a form would be opened, there would be no info for it). The data I store in the database, so it would transfer from machine to machine, is actually less simple. Screen sizes and positions aren't things I would want globally stored because different machines can have different resolutions and monitor sizes. Drew -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Johncliviger at aol.com Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 1:24 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] Moving controls at runtime Hi Guys, I need to permit users at runtime to move controls around a Form. And I've done that my using the Mouse Up, Move and Down events and it even works. Great! But I now need to save/persist those new XY location numbers. After much scratching of the old head I concluded that I should store them in Mysettings. The question is ..is that the best way to save the new settings and some pointers on how to code it will be most useful. A Sunday afternoon has passed without much progress and the dog is ignoring me due to the lack of a walk. TIA john cliviger O yes. I using vb.net 2005 _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From marklbreen at gmail.com Thu May 13 10:02:27 2010 From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 16:02:27 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] OT - Good Karma Wristlets Message-ID: Hello Friends My 11 year old daughter named Caitlin has her own little Google Apps website, www.caitlinbreen.com. She has recently been platting bracelets with some wool and has been giving them to friends in school. She calls them Good Karma Wristlets. The idea being she gives them for free and you receive them for free, but when you get one, you have to pass on the Good Karma. On her site, you can see that she has included a photo of some of the Wristlets, they are not too complex as you can see, but her and her friends are enjoying them. If you have a daughter / son / friend / wife / husband that would like one, please drop Caitlin a line and she will send you a Wristlet. Please feel free to pass on this email to anyone you think appropriate. I hope it is OK to include this on the list. As most of the list members are outside Ireland, it will be exciting for her to see requests from "abroad". You do not need mention that her Dad drew the site to your attention :). Some of you know me- and might even vouch for me - and know that I am on AccessD since 1997 so I am not seeking to sell you anything here, of course. Thanks a lot, Mark Breen Ireland From garykjos at gmail.com Thu May 13 10:15:08 2010 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 10:15:08 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] [dba-Tech] OT - Good Karma Wristlets In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Mark, No problem with the posting. Sounds like fun. GK On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 10:02 AM, Mark Breen wrote: > Hello Friends > > My 11 year old daughter named Caitlin has her own little Google Apps > website, www.caitlinbreen.com. > > She has recently been platting bracelets with some wool and has been giving > them to friends in school. ?She calls them Good Karma Wristlets. ?The idea > being she gives them for free and you receive them for free, but when you > get one, you have to pass on the Good Karma. ?On her site, you can see that > she has included a photo of some of the Wristlets, they are not too complex > as you can see, but her and her friends are enjoying them. > > If you have a daughter / son / friend / wife / husband that would like one, > please drop Caitlin a line and she will send you a Wristlet. > > Please feel free to pass on this email to anyone you think appropriate. > > I hope it is OK to include this on the list. ?As most of the list members > are outside Ireland, it will be exciting for her to see requests from > "abroad". ?You do not need mention that her Dad drew the site to your > attention :). > > Some of you know me- and might even vouch for me - and know that I am on > AccessD since 1997 so I am not seeking to sell you anything here, of course. > > Thanks a lot, > > Mark Breen > Ireland > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From marklbreen at gmail.com Thu May 13 13:39:13 2010 From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 19:39:13 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] OT - Good Karma Wristlets In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello All, just FYI, I messed up the email, so if you wrote to Caitlin within the last few hours, you probably got a bounce, it is fixed now, sorry about that, thanks again, Mark On 13 May 2010 16:02, Mark Breen wrote: > Hello Friends > > My 11 year old daughter named Caitlin has her own little Google Apps > website, www.caitlinbreen.com. > > She has recently been platting bracelets with some wool and has been giving > them to friends in school. She calls them Good Karma Wristlets. The idea > being she gives them for free and you receive them for free, but when you > get one, you have to pass on the Good Karma. On her site, you can see that > she has included a photo of some of the Wristlets, they are not too complex > as you can see, but her and her friends are enjoying them. > > If you have a daughter / son / friend / wife / husband that would like one, > please drop Caitlin a line and she will send you a Wristlet. > > Please feel free to pass on this email to anyone you think appropriate. > > I hope it is OK to include this on the list. As most of the list members > are outside Ireland, it will be exciting for her to see requests from > "abroad". You do not need mention that her Dad drew the site to your > attention :). > > Some of you know me- and might even vouch for me - and know that I am on > AccessD since 1997 so I am not seeking to sell you anything here, of course. > > Thanks a lot, > > Mark Breen > Ireland > From Johncliviger at aol.com Thu May 13 13:57:09 2010 From: Johncliviger at aol.com (Johncliviger at aol.com) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 14:57:09 EDT Subject: [dba-VB] Moving controls at runtime Message-ID: <4f48a.119b406b.391da585@aol.com> Hi Drew Thank you for the info. I've just read it. I need to think it thru. I'll come back. regards john cliviger From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Thu May 13 17:18:01 2010 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 18:18:01 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Moving controls at runtime In-Reply-To: <14dc4.69e4f4a5.391857a2@aol.com> References: <14dc4.69e4f4a5.391857a2@aol.com> Message-ID: John I've sent you an mdb off line that lets users move labels around a form and stores the positions in a table for retrieval ...I played with it as a floor planning solution but ultimately the limits on the number of controls on a single form made it unusable for the app I needed it for ...but it sounds like it might meet your needs ...hth William -------------------------------------------------- From: Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 2:23 PM To: Subject: [dba-VB] Moving controls at runtime > Hi Guys, > > I need to permit users at runtime to move controls around a Form. And I've > done that my using the Mouse Up, Move and Down events and it even works. > Great! But I now need to save/persist those new XY location numbers. > After > much scratching of the old head I concluded that I should store them in > Mysettings. > > The question is ..is that the best way to save the new settings and some > pointers on how to code it will be most useful. A Sunday afternoon has > passed without much progress and the dog is ignoring me due to the lack of > a > walk. > > TIA > john cliviger > > O yes. I using vb.net 2005 > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From michael at ddisolutions.com.au Thu May 13 18:22:41 2010 From: michael at ddisolutions.com.au (Michael Maddison) Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 09:22:41 +1000 Subject: [dba-VB] Web project advice References: Message-ID: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B59E0@ddi-01.DDI.local> I'm curious about how you go about charging for using a platform like google apps or wordpress? How do you 'sell' the concept? I should probably go and try one out I guess :-) Cheers Michael Hello Michael, I have set up about 100 sites now with Google apps, I can do them in approx 15 minutes if I have the content. It is free and you get the benefit of corporate quality email as well. Remember you need to select the Standard Edition as opposed to the Premium Edition. It has a list / table style template page which works well. Google Gadgets work really great also, especially the maps and you tube integration HTH, Mark On 13 May 2010 07:59, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Michael > > Or Google Apps: > > http://www.google.com/apps/intl/en/business/sites.html > > /gustav > > > >>> michael at ddisolutions.com.au 13-05-2010 01:39 >>> > Hi Guys, > > > > Just looking for some feedback. > > I've been asked to quote on a small website for a cattle stud. > > It's not a complex site but the user has asked for the ability to > add/update beast stud info. He says he needs to do this once a year. > > I've used DNN before but it seems like overkill for this spec. > > Adding/removing maybe 10 entries a year. > > > > Any thoughts/recommendations? > > > > Cheers > > > > Michael M > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2870 - Release Date: 05/13/10 04:26:00 From michael at ddisolutions.com.au Thu May 13 18:28:36 2010 From: michael at ddisolutions.com.au (Michael Maddison) Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 09:28:36 +1000 Subject: [dba-VB] Web project advice References: Message-ID: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B59E1@ddi-01.DDI.local> Cant find a trial option and I'm not sure I should use my real domain to try it out? How much flexibility do you have with styles/laying out the pages? 15 minutes??? I'll go broke :-( Cheers Michael Hello Michael, I have set up about 100 sites now with Google apps, I can do them in approx 15 minutes if I have the content. It is free and you get the benefit of corporate quality email as well. Remember you need to select the Standard Edition as opposed to the Premium Edition. It has a list / table style template page which works well. Google Gadgets work really great also, especially the maps and you tube integration HTH, Mark On 13 May 2010 07:59, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Michael > > Or Google Apps: > > http://www.google.com/apps/intl/en/business/sites.html > > /gustav > > > >>> michael at ddisolutions.com.au 13-05-2010 01:39 >>> > Hi Guys, > > > > Just looking for some feedback. > > I've been asked to quote on a small website for a cattle stud. > > It's not a complex site but the user has asked for the ability to > add/update beast stud info. He says he needs to do this once a year. > > I've used DNN before but it seems like overkill for this spec. > > Adding/removing maybe 10 entries a year. > > > > Any thoughts/recommendations? > > > > Cheers > > > > Michael M > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2870 - Release Date: 05/13/10 04:26:00 From marklbreen at gmail.com Fri May 14 03:13:51 2010 From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen) Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 09:13:51 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Web project advice In-Reply-To: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B59E1@ddi-01.DDI.local> References: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B59E1@ddi-01.DDI.local> Message-ID: Hello Michael, You have two choices when you create a google apps site 1) use a previously created domain name that is not really currently being used for anything else 2) Allow Google and their domain registration partners (Go Daddy and Enum) to create a .com domain for you for $10 I usually prefer option 1 because it allows me to seperate out the management of the domain name and the domain hosting (the google bit). However the slight complication with option 1 is that you have to create the C Records and the MX Records yourself. If you have not done this previously, it can seem daunting, although in reality it is not difficult and there are loads of instructions out there. In Option 2 Google will do ahead and open a Go Daddy / Enum account for you, pay the 10 USD and then they will set the C Names and MX Records all automagically. This works a treat and is very slick. However, if you do not currently have a google account and if that Google account does not currently have payment facilities set up, you will have to do that as part of the process. This can take the shine off the slickness, but once it is done, option 2 is slick. So, assuming you have chosen Option 1 or 2, the total cost now of playing with Google Apps is ?10 for the domain registration. I customarily create domains and sometimes forget about them once I have tested a particular point. I frequently register domains with names such as www.test14052010.com As Gustav will probably agree, Google Apps is an incredible solution for free, the email facilities alone are great and for small businesses that was to pay just $10 per year for their domain registration, this is a great way to have full cloud email, and full website facilities backed up by Google. How to make money from it? Well, there are a few ways 1) I usually create the sites for free for people and openly tell them it is only 15 - 30 minutes work. Sometimes they throw me ?50 or ?100 which is nice pocket money when it comes. They they manage the site from there. 2) Sometimes when people have no desire to manage the site at all, I set a small fee to do the whole lot for them, but I always tell them inadvance they can do it themselves if they wish. I still only create four or five pages sites and I KISS. 3) As expected when you give away time for free as I have done with google apps, they then come back a month or more later asking for a database system to be built, and this is where I make my real money. In summary: As a free tool, Google apps really fills a need in the market. If we charge ?500 per site we take away the neatness of the the free solution. So I like to leave it as a free solution and charge down the line or one the site for the service I provide. I have also ran some "Build your own website" courses for a small local organisation where I insist that they will have a site up after two tough days. Because I do them for free, I do one or two per month, and because I do so many, I am not very fast at creating the site. To be honest, it does not really make me money, but I love to see people with a website running in the cloud for just the $10 is takes to register a domain. Is that any help? thanks Mark On 14 May 2010 00:28, Michael Maddison wrote: > Cant find a trial option and I'm not sure I should use my real domain to > try it out? > How much flexibility do you have with styles/laying out the pages? > 15 minutes??? I'll go broke :-( > > Cheers > > Michael > > > Hello Michael, > > I have set up about 100 sites now with Google apps, I can do them in > approx > 15 minutes if I have the content. > > It is free and you get the benefit of corporate quality email as well. > > Remember you need to select the Standard Edition as opposed to the > Premium > Edition. > > It has a list / table style template page which works well. > > Google Gadgets work really great also, especially the maps and you tube > integration > > HTH, > > Mark > > > On 13 May 2010 07:59, Gustav Brock wrote: > > > Hi Michael > > > > Or Google Apps: > > > > http://www.google.com/apps/intl/en/business/sites.html > > > > /gustav > > > > > > >>> michael at ddisolutions.com.au 13-05-2010 01:39 >>> > > Hi Guys, > > > > > > > > Just looking for some feedback. > > > > I've been asked to quote on a small website for a cattle stud. > > > > It's not a complex site but the user has asked for the ability to > > add/update beast stud info. He says he needs to do this once a year. > > > > I've used DNN before but it seems like overkill for this spec. > > > > Adding/removing maybe 10 entries a year. > > > > > > > > Any thoughts/recommendations? > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > > > Michael M > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2870 - Release Date: 05/13/10 > 04:26:00 > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From michael at ddisolutions.com.au Sat May 15 01:37:13 2010 From: michael at ddisolutions.com.au (Michael Maddison) Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 16:37:13 +1000 Subject: [dba-VB] Web project advice References: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B59E1@ddi-01.DDI.local> Message-ID: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B59ED@ddi-01.DDI.local> Hi Mark, Very interesting. I think I'll offer 3 choices... 1. Static site maintained at hourly rate. 2. Google option, setup at hourly rate that he can take over if he chooses. 3. DNN site, setup for fixed fee that he can take control of. Cheers Michael Hello Michael, You have two choices when you create a google apps site 1) use a previously created domain name that is not really currently being used for anything else 2) Allow Google and their domain registration partners (Go Daddy and Enum) to create a .com domain for you for $10 I usually prefer option 1 because it allows me to seperate out the management of the domain name and the domain hosting (the google bit). However the slight complication with option 1 is that you have to create the C Records and the MX Records yourself. If you have not done this previously, it can seem daunting, although in reality it is not difficult and there are loads of instructions out there. In Option 2 Google will do ahead and open a Go Daddy / Enum account for you, pay the 10 USD and then they will set the C Names and MX Records all automagically. This works a treat and is very slick. However, if you do not currently have a google account and if that Google account does not currently have payment facilities set up, you will have to do that as part of the process. This can take the shine off the slickness, but once it is done, option 2 is slick. So, assuming you have chosen Option 1 or 2, the total cost now of playing with Google Apps is ?10 for the domain registration. I customarily create domains and sometimes forget about them once I have tested a particular point. I frequently register domains with names such as www.test14052010.com As Gustav will probably agree, Google Apps is an incredible solution for free, the email facilities alone are great and for small businesses that was to pay just $10 per year for their domain registration, this is a great way to have full cloud email, and full website facilities backed up by Google. How to make money from it? Well, there are a few ways 1) I usually create the sites for free for people and openly tell them it is only 15 - 30 minutes work. Sometimes they throw me ?50 or ?100 which is nice pocket money when it comes. They they manage the site from there. 2) Sometimes when people have no desire to manage the site at all, I set a small fee to do the whole lot for them, but I always tell them inadvance they can do it themselves if they wish. I still only create four or five pages sites and I KISS. 3) As expected when you give away time for free as I have done with google apps, they then come back a month or more later asking for a database system to be built, and this is where I make my real money. In summary: As a free tool, Google apps really fills a need in the market. If we charge ?500 per site we take away the neatness of the the free solution. So I like to leave it as a free solution and charge down the line or one the site for the service I provide. I have also ran some "Build your own website" courses for a small local organisation where I insist that they will have a site up after two tough days. Because I do them for free, I do one or two per month, and because I do so many, I am not very fast at creating the site. To be honest, it does not really make me money, but I love to see people with a website running in the cloud for just the $10 is takes to register a domain. Is that any help? thanks Mark On 14 May 2010 00:28, Michael Maddison wrote: > Cant find a trial option and I'm not sure I should use my real domain to > try it out? > How much flexibility do you have with styles/laying out the pages? > 15 minutes??? I'll go broke :-( > > Cheers > > Michael > > > Hello Michael, > > I have set up about 100 sites now with Google apps, I can do them in > approx > 15 minutes if I have the content. > > It is free and you get the benefit of corporate quality email as well. > > Remember you need to select the Standard Edition as opposed to the > Premium > Edition. > > It has a list / table style template page which works well. > > Google Gadgets work really great also, especially the maps and you tube > integration > > HTH, > > Mark > > > On 13 May 2010 07:59, Gustav Brock wrote: > > > Hi Michael > > > > Or Google Apps: > > > > http://www.google.com/apps/intl/en/business/sites.html > > > > /gustav > > > > > > >>> michael at ddisolutions.com.au 13-05-2010 01:39 >>> > > Hi Guys, > > > > > > > > Just looking for some feedback. > > > > I've been asked to quote on a small website for a cattle stud. > > > > It's not a complex site but the user has asked for the ability to > > add/update beast stud info. He says he needs to do this once a year. > > > > I've used DNN before but it seems like overkill for this spec. > > > > Adding/removing maybe 10 entries a year. > > > > > > > > Any thoughts/recommendations? > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > > > Michael M > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2870 - Release Date: 05/13/10 > 04:26:00 > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2870 - Release Date: 05/14/10 04:26:00 From Johncliviger at aol.com Sat May 15 13:41:16 2010 From: Johncliviger at aol.com (Johncliviger at aol.com) Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 14:41:16 EDT Subject: [dba-VB] Moving controls at runtime Message-ID: <34d99.5d67fb2.392044cc@aol.com> Cheers William, I've seen it, I'll come back in a days or so. regards john cliviger From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Sat May 15 15:08:59 2010 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 16:08:59 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Moving controls at runtime In-Reply-To: <34d99.5d67fb2.392044cc@aol.com> References: <34d99.5d67fb2.392044cc@aol.com> Message-ID: John ...I failed to note that you are working in VB.net ...I get dba-VB and AccessD in the same in box and just assumed you were working in Access William -------------------------------------------------- From: Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2010 2:41 PM To: Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Moving controls at runtime > Cheers William, I've seen it, I'll come back in a days or so. > > regards > > john cliviger > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From marklbreen at gmail.com Mon May 17 07:11:19 2010 From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 13:11:19 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Web project advice In-Reply-To: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B59ED@ddi-01.DDI.local> References: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B59E1@ddi-01.DDI.local> <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B59ED@ddi-01.DDI.local> Message-ID: Hello Michael, I have been using powerDNN for DNN hosting and find them to be good. And they have SQL 2008 which is great as many still run SQL 2005. Do you do much with DNN? Mark On 15 May 2010 07:37, Michael Maddison wrote: > Hi Mark, > > Very interesting. > > I think I'll offer 3 choices... > 1. Static site maintained at hourly rate. > 2. Google option, setup at hourly rate that he can take over if he > chooses. > 3. DNN site, setup for fixed fee that he can take control of. > > Cheers > > Michael > > Hello Michael, > > You have two choices when you create a google apps site > > 1) use a previously created domain name that is not really currently being > used for anything else > 2) Allow Google and their domain registration partners (Go Daddy and Enum) > to create a .com domain for you for $10 > > I usually prefer option 1 because it allows me to seperate out the > management of the domain name and the domain hosting (the google bit). > However the slight complication with option 1 is that you have to create > the C Records and the MX Records yourself. If you have not done this > previously, it can seem daunting, although in reality it is not difficult > and there are loads of instructions out there. > > In Option 2 Google will do ahead and open a Go Daddy / Enum account for > you, > pay the 10 USD and then they will set the C Names and MX Records all > automagically. This works a treat and is very slick. However, if you do > not currently have a google account and if that Google account does not > currently have payment facilities set up, you will have to do that as part > of the process. This can take the shine off the slickness, but once it is > done, option 2 is slick. > > So, assuming you have chosen Option 1 or 2, the total cost now of playing > with Google Apps is ?10 for the domain registration. I customarily create > domains and sometimes forget about them once I have tested a particular > point. I frequently register domains with names such as > www.test14052010.com > > As Gustav will probably agree, Google Apps is an incredible solution for > free, the email facilities alone are great and for small businesses that > was > to pay just $10 per year for their domain registration, this is a great way > to have full cloud email, and full website facilities backed up by Google. > > > How to make money from it? > > Well, there are a few ways > > 1) I usually create the sites for free for people and openly tell them it > is > only 15 - 30 minutes work. Sometimes they throw me ?50 or ?100 which is > nice pocket money when it comes. They they manage the site from there. > 2) Sometimes when people have no desire to manage the site at all, I set a > small fee to do the whole lot for them, but I always tell them inadvance > they can do it themselves if they wish. I still only create four or five > pages sites and I KISS. > 3) As expected when you give away time for free as I have done with google > apps, they then come back a month or more later asking for a database > system > to be built, and this is where I make my real money. > > > In summary: As a free tool, Google apps really fills a need in the market. > If we charge ?500 per site we take away the neatness of the the free > solution. So I like to leave it as a free solution and charge down the > line > or one the site for the service I provide. > > I have also ran some "Build your own website" courses for a small local > organisation where I insist that they will have a site up after two tough > days. Because I do them for free, I do one or two per month, and because I > do so many, I am not very fast at creating the site. > > To be honest, it does not really make me money, but I love to see people > with a website running in the cloud for just the $10 is takes to register a > domain. > > Is that any help? > > thanks > > Mark > > > > > On 14 May 2010 00:28, Michael Maddison > wrote: > > > Cant find a trial option and I'm not sure I should use my real domain to > > try it out? > > How much flexibility do you have with styles/laying out the pages? > > 15 minutes??? I'll go broke :-( > > > > Cheers > > > > Michael > > > > > > Hello Michael, > > > > I have set up about 100 sites now with Google apps, I can do them in > > approx > > 15 minutes if I have the content. > > > > It is free and you get the benefit of corporate quality email as well. > > > > Remember you need to select the Standard Edition as opposed to the > > Premium > > Edition. > > > > It has a list / table style template page which works well. > > > > Google Gadgets work really great also, especially the maps and you tube > > integration > > > > HTH, > > > > Mark > > > > > > On 13 May 2010 07:59, Gustav Brock wrote: > > > > > Hi Michael > > > > > > Or Google Apps: > > > > > > http://www.google.com/apps/intl/en/business/sites.html > > > > > > /gustav > > > > > > > > > >>> michael at ddisolutions.com.au 13-05-2010 01:39 >>> > > > Hi Guys, > > > > > > > > > > > > Just looking for some feedback. > > > > > > I've been asked to quote on a small website for a cattle stud. > > > > > > It's not a complex site but the user has asked for the ability to > > > add/update beast stud info. He says he needs to do this once a year. > > > > > > I've used DNN before but it seems like overkill for this spec. > > > > > > Adding/removing maybe 10 entries a year. > > > > > > > > > > > > Any thoughts/recommendations? > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > > > > > > > Michael M > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > dba-VB mailing list > > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > dba-VB mailing list > > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2870 - Release Date: 05/13/10 > > 04:26:00 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2870 - Release Date: 05/14/10 > 04:26:00 > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 17 08:18:52 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 09:18:52 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Web project advice In-Reply-To: References: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B59E1@ddi-01.DDI.local> <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B59ED@ddi-01.DDI.local> Message-ID: <4BF1423C.50806@colbyconsulting.com> I have just moved to PowerDNN as well. Because I am so new there I have no comment yet, other than their servers are FAST and RELIABLE. My old hosting company had at a half hour every couple of days downtime, whereas PowerDNN does not. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Mark Breen wrote: > Hello Michael, > > I have been using powerDNN for DNN hosting and find them to be good. And > they have SQL 2008 which is great as many still run SQL 2005. > > Do you do much with DNN? > > Mark From Johncliviger at aol.com Tue May 18 03:57:33 2010 From: Johncliviger at aol.com (Johncliviger at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 04:57:33 EDT Subject: [dba-VB] Moving controls at runtime Message-ID: <4ea38.7dc5a47.3923b07d@aol.com> Hi William No problem! I work with both. I've never had the need to move controls in Access but now I've seen this little gem of yours it's given me an idea for a db enhancement. I'll come back to you later. Thanks for the assistance regards john cliviger From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue May 18 08:36:06 2010 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 15:36:06 +0200 Subject: [dba-VB] MAPS: Microsoft Action Pack Subscription Development and Design Benefits Message-ID: Hi all As of May 24. the development tools - most importantly Visual Studio 2010 Professional - is now part of a separate package dedicated developers: Microsoft Action Pack Development and Design Benefits https://partner.microsoft.com/global/program/managemembership/40133000 Three MSDN for Microsoft Action Pack Development and Design subscriptions (licensed per user): Microsoft Visual Studio 2010 Professional Microsoft Expression Web The latest version of the Windows and Windows Server operating systems, and Microsoft SQL Server for development and testing You still have to pass some "test" every second year: https://partner.microsoft.com/global/40132997 /gustav >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 18-01-2008 09:10 >>> Hi all Well, this is on schedule. Today an envelope arrived including these cd-roms: Microsoft Visual Studio 2008 Standard Edition Microsoft Expression Studio and a DVD: Custom Web Development Jumpstart and Windows Live Partner Resources Kit Also, I received 2 GB of ram for my laptop. Do we have a match? /gustav >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 04-12-2007 18:06:22 >>> Hi all Received this today: Our records indicate .. that you are eligible to order the Microsoft Web Solutions Toolkit. You will automatically be shipped the Web Solutions Toolkit in January 2008. /gustav >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 10-10-2007 10:09:07 >>> Hi all We (my employer and I) don't want to spend money on the "MS exam circus" as the ROI is zero. Thus, our official Small Business Specialist status will be lost (and our clients don't care as they hardly knew that anyway). No big deal. However, that status have the additional benefit that combined with the Action Pack Subscription (where the ROI is huge) you are offered Visual Studio Standard 2005 for free. So no SB partner => no free VS which is bad now that VS2008 is close. But a new free add-on to the Action Pack is now announced which could be of interest for those of you not having Visual Studio yet or have felt the limitations of the free Express editions, a "special edition toolkit" for Web Solution Providers: https://partner.microsoft.com/webresourcekit It includes Microsoft Visual Studio Standard 2008 and Expression Studio. The estimated ship date for the kit is January 2008. One of the steps to obtain the kit is to: Successfully complete one of three free online courses and the associated assessment with a score of 70 percent or higher .. These seems to have a duration from 0,5 to 1,5 hours, so you have to pay by spending some of your valuable time! /gustav From marklbreen at gmail.com Wed May 19 04:02:30 2010 From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen) Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 10:02:30 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Microsoft Bizspark - Was MAPS: Microsoft Action Pack.... Message-ID: Hello All, Sorry for changing the subject line, but it is a slightly different subject. Have you all heard of Microsoft Bizspark ? When I heard of it I thought that it was too good to be true. My Brother - in - Law signed up to it. I eventually submitted a request myself and voila, I was accepted and I now have three years of full MSDN access and have to pay $100 when I leave in three years time. Read the requirements carefully, and talk to a local partner for advice so as to optimize your application. As I type I have office 2010 installed on my machine and VS2010 waiting to be installed! AFAICS, this program trumps everything that MS has to offer - its virtually free and once you are accepted it lasts three years. Good Luck, Mark On 18 May 2010 16:25, Rocky Smolin wrote: > I see it now. Too early I guess. Missed it. Thanks. > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos > Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 7:56 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] MAPS: Microsoft Action Pack > SubscriptionDevelopmentand Design Benefits > > You don't have access to google? ;-) > > A search on "microsoft action pack subscription cost" > > and the first link listed..... > https://partner.microsoft.com/40016455 > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > The Microsoft Action Pack Subscription download-only version today costs > $299 plus tax, per year. If you would also like to receive physical media, > the price is $498 plus tax, per year. If you opt in for physical media in > the middle of your annual subscription period, the additional cost will be > assessed on a prorated basis. > Starting May 24, 2010, we will provide enhanced benefits to Action Pack > Solution Provider. The download-only version will cost $329 plus tax, per > year. If you would also like to receive physical media, the new price will > be $429 plus tax, per year. > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > GK > > On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 9:17 AM, Rocky Smolin > wrote: > > Gustav: > > > > I looked at the site but couldn't find a price. Do you know how much > > the Action Pack is now? I took a test a while back to re-enroll but > > never got the Pack. > > > > TIA > > > > Rocky > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav > > Brock > > Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 6:36 AM > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com; dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: [AccessD] MAPS: Microsoft Action Pack Subscription > > Developmentand Design Benefits > > > > Hi all > > > > As of May 24. the development tools - most importantly Visual Studio > > 2010 Professional - is now part of a separate package dedicated > developers: > > > > Microsoft Action Pack Development and Design Benefits > > https://partner.microsoft.com/global/program/managemembership/40133000 > > > > Three MSDN for Microsoft Action Pack Development and Design > > subscriptions (licensed per user): > > Microsoft Visual Studio 2010 Professional > > Microsoft Expression Web > > The latest version of the Windows and Windows Server operating > > systems, and Microsoft SQL Server for development and testing > > > > You still have to pass some "test" every second year: > > https://partner.microsoft.com/global/40132997 > > > > /gustav > > > > > >>>> Gustav at cactus.dk 18-01-2008 09:10 >>> > > Hi all > > > > Well, this is on schedule. Today an envelope arrived including these > > cd-roms: > > > > Microsoft Visual Studio 2008 Standard Edition > > Microsoft Expression Studio > > > > and a DVD: > > > > Custom Web Development Jumpstart > > and Windows Live Partner Resources Kit > > > > Also, I received 2 GB of ram for my laptop. Do we have a match? > > > > /gustav > > > >>>> Gustav at cactus.dk 04-12-2007 18:06:22 >>> > > Hi all > > > > Received this today: > > > > Our records indicate .. that you are eligible to order the Microsoft > > Web Solutions Toolkit. > > You will automatically be shipped the Web Solutions Toolkit in January > 2008. > > > > > > /gustav > > > > > >>>> Gustav at cactus.dk 10-10-2007 10:09:07 >>> > > Hi all > > > > We (my employer and I) don't want to spend money on the "MS exam > > circus" as the ROI is zero. Thus, our official Small Business > > Specialist status will be lost (and our clients don't care as they > > hardly knew that anyway). No big deal. > > > > However, that status have the additional benefit that combined with > > the Action Pack Subscription (where the ROI is huge) you are offered > > Visual Studio Standard 2005 for free. So no SB partner => no free VS > > which is bad now that VS2008 is close. > > > > But a new free add-on to the Action Pack is now announced which could > > be of interest for those of you not having Visual Studio yet or have > > felt the limitations of the free Express editions, a "special edition > > toolkit" for Web Solution Providers: > > > > https://partner.microsoft.com/webresourcekit > > > > It includes Microsoft Visual Studio Standard 2008 and Expression Studio. > > The estimated ship date for the kit is January 2008. > > > > One of the steps to obtain the kit is to: > > > > Successfully complete one of three free online courses and the > > associated assessment with a score of 70 percent or higher .. > > > > These seems to have a duration from 0,5 to 1,5 hours, so you have to > > pay by spending some of your valuable time! > > > > /gustav > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > Gary Kjos > garykjos at gmail.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Wed May 19 09:54:47 2010 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 07:54:47 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Parallelism In-Reply-To: References: <34FFB67A32A64A85A1D61422E34D40CE@creativesystemdesigns.com> <73FC6395D2CA47639932C5A5B5204FEE@creativesystemdesigns.com> <3E23E4865861413788D4FD433E981005@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4A52241149474D76AA93A21F31C31BDA@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi All: A couple of nights ago, I went to a series of lectures given by a fellow named Tiberiu Covaci, Swedish owner of a company called Multi-Core and he is now doing a tour as a trainer for Microsoft. (His next lecture stop will be in New Orleans.) His training lecture was on Parallelism. The first lecture covered the basic concepts of computers and their new multi-core design, a design made necessary as single core computers ran into the physical wall as of 2005. He then went on to describe the attempts by developers to utilize these new multi-core systems. It has been a slow process as you can imagine. The rudimentary attempts of threading and hyper-threading were far from successful. First a single thread will consume up to 200 cycles just to get substantiated and its deployment still requires the central CPU and to spawn hundreds of threads, in a pool and then there was the issues of synchronizing the process results. Even the best developed multi-threaded applications, like MS SQL 2005 could over-load a computer when challenged by a heavy duty task. MS even went so far as to apply a system lock when performing resource heavy jobs... that means all other functionality on the server would cease... no multi-tasking, until the job was completed... even then sometimes a process would freeze up a server. (We have all heard of that exact situation from a number of our DBA members.) Our lecturer had designed a couple of short programs to showed how multi-threading was implemented and then demonstrated how these apps when over-loaded would crash or lock out the system. He used a Quick-sort, demo while splitting it into multiple pieces, multi-threading it and slowly increasing the sort data showed a 30 percent gain per thread and a 70 percent gain per core (maximum gain) but it also showed virtually not performance loss as the data increased (10 to 100 million records) until the process locked up the CPU. We watched the system progress via the Task Manger's CPU display. Lecture two; enter Parallelism. This process has being developed on the latest versions of Java and .Net frame work (4 or greater). He demonstrated two new core features/objects Parallel and Task. Using Parallelism requires a bit to decompose a problem into its components. He used an example of a recipe where a number of steps was required from initial preparation, to the cooking and to the table. The program which ended calculating the time was initially designed in a standard C# routine. The app was then recoded using Parallel running tasks. Each task can run independently, but wait for a process to be completed if required by scheduling, monitoring a semaphore, event, state and/or wait loops. We also covered how to handle synchronization, data sharing and how to avoid deadlocks. By using pararllelism the meal was completed in half the time... It showed how 6 people could do a job faster than one... now that's obvious but maybe not so obvious with a computer application. The most telling observation was when viewing the Task Manger's CPU display. No matter how heavy the requirements that were imposed on the system, the CPU demand remained very low and flat and each core showed an even distribution of utilization. I was totally impressed. Now I know how such super databases as Cassandra, using Java Parallelism works. My suggestion to all those of you using MS SQL 2005 or less; "Bail out quick and get you hands on the latest MS SQL... there will be no comparison in performance." A couple of recommended books on the subject are: "Patterns of Parallel Processing" and "Concurrent Programming on Windows" The latest .Net has all these features built in...just ready to use. Jim From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Wed May 19 16:08:02 2010 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 01:08:02 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Parallelism In-Reply-To: <4A52241149474D76AA93A21F31C31BDA@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <34FFB67A32A64A85A1D61422E34D40CE@creativesystemdesigns.com><73FC6395D2CA47639932C5A5B5204FEE@creativesystemdesigns.com><3E23E4865861413788D4FD433E981005@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4A52241149474D76AA93A21F31C31BDA@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <000a01caf797$5f4ffb40$6501a8c0@nant> Hi Jim -- Yes, multi-threaded apps development is a very interesting and useful stuff: I do actively use multi-thereading in my customers' real life 24x7x365 .NET applications, but I still have a lot to learn/to do (and that learning by doing promise to last forever :)) - the only thing I can say for sure now is that multi-threading development is at least a matter of magnitude more complicated and time consuming than a "mere" conventional single-threaded apps development. Hopefully the new MS technologies - .NET Framework, C# 4.0 and PLINQ will help to lower this complexity a bit(?)... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 6:55 PM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'; 'Discussion concerning MS SQL Server'; dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] Parallelism Hi All: A couple of nights ago, I went to a series of lectures given by a fellow named Tiberiu Covaci, Swedish owner of a company called Multi-Core and he is now doing a tour as a trainer for Microsoft. (His next lecture stop will be in New Orleans.) His training lecture was on Parallelism. The first lecture covered the basic concepts of computers and their new multi-core design, a design made necessary as single core computers ran into the physical wall as of 2005. He then went on to describe the attempts by developers to utilize these new multi-core systems. It has been a slow process as you can imagine. The rudimentary attempts of threading and hyper-threading were far from successful. First a single thread will consume up to 200 cycles just to get substantiated and its deployment still requires the central CPU and to spawn hundreds of threads, in a pool and then there was the issues of synchronizing the process results. Even the best developed multi-threaded applications, like MS SQL 2005 could over-load a computer when challenged by a heavy duty task. MS even went so far as to apply a system lock when performing resource heavy jobs... that means all other functionality on the server would cease... no multi-tasking, until the job was completed... even then sometimes a process would freeze up a server. (We have all heard of that exact situation from a number of our DBA members.) Our lecturer had designed a couple of short programs to showed how multi-threading was implemented and then demonstrated how these apps when over-loaded would crash or lock out the system. He used a Quick-sort, demo while splitting it into multiple pieces, multi-threading it and slowly increasing the sort data showed a 30 percent gain per thread and a 70 percent gain per core (maximum gain) but it also showed virtually not performance loss as the data increased (10 to 100 million records) until the process locked up the CPU. We watched the system progress via the Task Manger's CPU display. Lecture two; enter Parallelism. This process has being developed on the latest versions of Java and .Net frame work (4 or greater). He demonstrated two new core features/objects Parallel and Task. Using Parallelism requires a bit to decompose a problem into its components. He used an example of a recipe where a number of steps was required from initial preparation, to the cooking and to the table. The program which ended calculating the time was initially designed in a standard C# routine. The app was then recoded using Parallel running tasks. Each task can run independently, but wait for a process to be completed if required by scheduling, monitoring a semaphore, event, state and/or wait loops. We also covered how to handle synchronization, data sharing and how to avoid deadlocks. By using pararllelism the meal was completed in half the time... It showed how 6 people could do a job faster than one... now that's obvious but maybe not so obvious with a computer application. The most telling observation was when viewing the Task Manger's CPU display. No matter how heavy the requirements that were imposed on the system, the CPU demand remained very low and flat and each core showed an even distribution of utilization. I was totally impressed. Now I know how such super databases as Cassandra, using Java Parallelism works. My suggestion to all those of you using MS SQL 2005 or less; "Bail out quick and get you hands on the latest MS SQL... there will be no comparison in performance." A couple of recommended books on the subject are: "Patterns of Parallel Processing" and "Concurrent Programming on Windows" The latest .Net has all these features built in...just ready to use. Jim _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed May 19 16:49:37 2010 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 14:49:37 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Parallelism In-Reply-To: <000a01caf797$5f4ffb40$6501a8c0@nant> References: <34FFB67A32A64A85A1D61422E34D40CE@creativesystemdesigns.com> <73FC6395D2CA47639932C5A5B5204FEE@creativesystemdesigns.com> <3E23E4865861413788D4FD433E981005@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4A52241149474D76AA93A21F31C31BDA@creativesystemdesigns.com> <000a01caf797$5f4ffb40$6501a8c0@nant> Message-ID: <1C9DD9C7D00C4033867EC6E149EEC34C@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Shamil: Please note that the lecturer gave a very strict line of difference between multi-threaded applications and the new Parallelism... they are very different in coding, deployment and performance. It now appears that the preparation of coding will now take twice as long but it appears to be the only way to be able to get full performance from our new multi-cored computers. I understand that some Linux systems manage the Parallelism within their kernels so a new application may not see as great as performance advantage as on a Windows OS... but some List members may have far greater insight, on this subject, than I do. I had previously sent an email to Tiberiu Covaci asking for some clarification on the points and differences and as soon as I hear a reply, I will share that information. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 2:08 PM To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.' Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Parallelism Hi Jim -- Yes, multi-threaded apps development is a very interesting and useful stuff: I do actively use multi-thereading in my customers' real life 24x7x365 .NET applications, but I still have a lot to learn/to do (and that learning by doing promise to last forever :)) - the only thing I can say for sure now is that multi-threading development is at least a matter of magnitude more complicated and time consuming than a "mere" conventional single-threaded apps development. Hopefully the new MS technologies - .NET Framework, C# 4.0 and PLINQ will help to lower this complexity a bit(?)... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 6:55 PM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'; 'Discussion concerning MS SQL Server'; dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] Parallelism Hi All: A couple of nights ago, I went to a series of lectures given by a fellow named Tiberiu Covaci, Swedish owner of a company called Multi-Core and he is now doing a tour as a trainer for Microsoft. (His next lecture stop will be in New Orleans.) His training lecture was on Parallelism. The first lecture covered the basic concepts of computers and their new multi-core design, a design made necessary as single core computers ran into the physical wall as of 2005. He then went on to describe the attempts by developers to utilize these new multi-core systems. It has been a slow process as you can imagine. The rudimentary attempts of threading and hyper-threading were far from successful. First a single thread will consume up to 200 cycles just to get substantiated and its deployment still requires the central CPU and to spawn hundreds of threads, in a pool and then there was the issues of synchronizing the process results. Even the best developed multi-threaded applications, like MS SQL 2005 could over-load a computer when challenged by a heavy duty task. MS even went so far as to apply a system lock when performing resource heavy jobs... that means all other functionality on the server would cease... no multi-tasking, until the job was completed... even then sometimes a process would freeze up a server. (We have all heard of that exact situation from a number of our DBA members.) Our lecturer had designed a couple of short programs to showed how multi-threading was implemented and then demonstrated how these apps when over-loaded would crash or lock out the system. He used a Quick-sort, demo while splitting it into multiple pieces, multi-threading it and slowly increasing the sort data showed a 30 percent gain per thread and a 70 percent gain per core (maximum gain) but it also showed virtually not performance loss as the data increased (10 to 100 million records) until the process locked up the CPU. We watched the system progress via the Task Manger's CPU display. Lecture two; enter Parallelism. This process has being developed on the latest versions of Java and .Net frame work (4 or greater). He demonstrated two new core features/objects Parallel and Task. Using Parallelism requires a bit to decompose a problem into its components. He used an example of a recipe where a number of steps was required from initial preparation, to the cooking and to the table. The program which ended calculating the time was initially designed in a standard C# routine. The app was then recoded using Parallel running tasks. Each task can run independently, but wait for a process to be completed if required by scheduling, monitoring a semaphore, event, state and/or wait loops. We also covered how to handle synchronization, data sharing and how to avoid deadlocks. By using pararllelism the meal was completed in half the time... It showed how 6 people could do a job faster than one... now that's obvious but maybe not so obvious with a computer application. The most telling observation was when viewing the Task Manger's CPU display. No matter how heavy the requirements that were imposed on the system, the CPU demand remained very low and flat and each core showed an even distribution of utilization. I was totally impressed. Now I know how such super databases as Cassandra, using Java Parallelism works. My suggestion to all those of you using MS SQL 2005 or less; "Bail out quick and get you hands on the latest MS SQL... there will be no comparison in performance." A couple of recommended books on the subject are: "Patterns of Parallel Processing" and "Concurrent Programming on Windows" The latest .Net has all these features built in...just ready to use. Jim _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Sat May 22 14:43:46 2010 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Sat, 22 May 2010 23:43:46 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Parallelism In-Reply-To: <1C9DD9C7D00C4033867EC6E149EEC34C@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <34FFB67A32A64A85A1D61422E34D40CE@creativesystemdesigns.com><73FC6395D2CA47639932C5A5B5204FEE@creativesystemdesigns.com><3E23E4865861413788D4FD433E981005@creativesystemdesigns.com><4A52241149474D76AA93A21F31C31BDA@creativesystemdesigns.com><000a01caf797$5f4ffb40$6501a8c0@nant> <1C9DD9C7D00C4033867EC6E149EEC34C@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <114E8EB89D7E4498B14A6E84FA27EF84@nant> Hi Jim -- Thank you for your remark. Yes, I suppose I do realize the difference between multi-threading and Parallelism. And I suppose I do use both here in my everyday development: - Parallelism can be implemented by using multi-threading (long running threads usually performing conceptually different tasks) but it can be also implemented by running independent processes... - Multi-threading is usually treated as multiple short-living threads/-sub-processes running within one process, and often performing conceptually the same tasks, at least most of the threads of a multi-threaded application... Both Parallelism and Multi-threading can be implemented on one CPU provided independent processes or threads have some waiting/idle time - waiting for some external events to happen/tasks to be processed - that concept exists since IBM 360 MFT OS times (early 60-ies?)... Both Parallelism and Multi-Threading are getting mainstream nowadays when one process, which can't be "paralleled" on one CPU system because it has no "external events" to wait, can now be split into several sub-processes/threads to be scheduled to run on several CPUs/cores available within one computer - that's new for mass market PCs, but this concept of Parallelism/multi-threading is rather old coming from supercomputers - CRAY and CDC there, and Elbrus here (also 60ies AFAIKR)... Please correct me if I'm wrong. What's so new with "the new Parallelism" you mentioned? What am I missing? - Let's define this discussion thread context: I do not mention "neural networks" and "clouds" here - we are talking within context of one physical unit having several CPUs/cores and controlled by one operation system instance, correct?... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 1:50 AM To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.' Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Parallelism Hi Shamil: Please note that the lecturer gave a very strict line of difference between multi-threaded applications and the new Parallelism... they are very different in coding, deployment and performance. It now appears that the preparation of coding will now take twice as long but it appears to be the only way to be able to get full performance from our new multi-cored computers. I understand that some Linux systems manage the Parallelism within their kernels so a new application may not see as great as performance advantage as on a Windows OS... but some List members may have far greater insight, on this subject, than I do. I had previously sent an email to Tiberiu Covaci asking for some clarification on the points and differences and as soon as I hear a reply, I will share that information. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 2:08 PM To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.' Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Parallelism Hi Jim -- Yes, multi-threaded apps development is a very interesting and useful stuff: I do actively use multi-thereading in my customers' real life 24x7x365 .NET applications, but I still have a lot to learn/to do (and that learning by doing promise to last forever :)) - the only thing I can say for sure now is that multi-threading development is at least a matter of magnitude more complicated and time consuming than a "mere" conventional single-threaded apps development. Hopefully the new MS technologies - .NET Framework, C# 4.0 and PLINQ will help to lower this complexity a bit(?)... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 6:55 PM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'; 'Discussion concerning MS SQL Server'; dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] Parallelism Hi All: A couple of nights ago, I went to a series of lectures given by a fellow named Tiberiu Covaci, Swedish owner of a company called Multi-Core and he is now doing a tour as a trainer for Microsoft. (His next lecture stop will be in New Orleans.) His training lecture was on Parallelism. The first lecture covered the basic concepts of computers and their new multi-core design, a design made necessary as single core computers ran into the physical wall as of 2005. He then went on to describe the attempts by developers to utilize these new multi-core systems. It has been a slow process as you can imagine. The rudimentary attempts of threading and hyper-threading were far from successful. First a single thread will consume up to 200 cycles just to get substantiated and its deployment still requires the central CPU and to spawn hundreds of threads, in a pool and then there was the issues of synchronizing the process results. Even the best developed multi-threaded applications, like MS SQL 2005 could over-load a computer when challenged by a heavy duty task. MS even went so far as to apply a system lock when performing resource heavy jobs... that means all other functionality on the server would cease... no multi-tasking, until the job was completed... even then sometimes a process would freeze up a server. (We have all heard of that exact situation from a number of our DBA members.) Our lecturer had designed a couple of short programs to showed how multi-threading was implemented and then demonstrated how these apps when over-loaded would crash or lock out the system. He used a Quick-sort, demo while splitting it into multiple pieces, multi-threading it and slowly increasing the sort data showed a 30 percent gain per thread and a 70 percent gain per core (maximum gain) but it also showed virtually not performance loss as the data increased (10 to 100 million records) until the process locked up the CPU. We watched the system progress via the Task Manger's CPU display. Lecture two; enter Parallelism. This process has being developed on the latest versions of Java and .Net frame work (4 or greater). He demonstrated two new core features/objects Parallel and Task. Using Parallelism requires a bit to decompose a problem into its components. He used an example of a recipe where a number of steps was required from initial preparation, to the cooking and to the table. The program which ended calculating the time was initially designed in a standard C# routine. The app was then recoded using Parallel running tasks. Each task can run independently, but wait for a process to be completed if required by scheduling, monitoring a semaphore, event, state and/or wait loops. We also covered how to handle synchronization, data sharing and how to avoid deadlocks. By using pararllelism the meal was completed in half the time... It showed how 6 people could do a job faster than one... now that's obvious but maybe not so obvious with a computer application. The most telling observation was when viewing the Task Manger's CPU display. No matter how heavy the requirements that were imposed on the system, the CPU demand remained very low and flat and each core showed an even distribution of utilization. I was totally impressed. Now I know how such super databases as Cassandra, using Java Parallelism works. My suggestion to all those of you using MS SQL 2005 or less; "Bail out quick and get you hands on the latest MS SQL... there will be no comparison in performance." A couple of recommended books on the subject are: "Patterns of Parallel Processing" and "Concurrent Programming on Windows" The latest .Net has all these features built in...just ready to use. Jim _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sat May 22 17:04:15 2010 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 22 May 2010 15:04:15 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Parallelism In-Reply-To: <114E8EB89D7E4498B14A6E84FA27EF84@nant> References: <34FFB67A32A64A85A1D61422E34D40CE@creativesystemdesigns.com> <73FC6395D2CA47639932C5A5B5204FEE@creativesystemdesigns.com> <3E23E4865861413788D4FD433E981005@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4A52241149474D76AA93A21F31C31BDA@creativesystemdesigns.com> <000a01caf797$5f4ffb40$6501a8c0@nant> <1C9DD9C7D00C4033867EC6E149EEC34C@creativesystemdesigns.com> <114E8EB89D7E4498B14A6E84FA27EF84@nant> Message-ID: <7B2D6C891C63473CA06F71513D77F828@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Shamil: Since the first Unix system added the command 'Fork' there has been parallel processing... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fork_(operating_system) Yes, it could have very well been the 60's Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 12:44 PM To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.' Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Parallelism Hi Jim -- Thank you for your remark. Yes, I suppose I do realize the difference between multi-threading and Parallelism. And I suppose I do use both here in my everyday development: - Parallelism can be implemented by using multi-threading (long running threads usually performing conceptually different tasks) but it can be also implemented by running independent processes... - Multi-threading is usually treated as multiple short-living threads/-sub-processes running within one process, and often performing conceptually the same tasks, at least most of the threads of a multi-threaded application... Both Parallelism and Multi-threading can be implemented on one CPU provided independent processes or threads have some waiting/idle time - waiting for some external events to happen/tasks to be processed - that concept exists since IBM 360 MFT OS times (early 60-ies?)... Both Parallelism and Multi-Threading are getting mainstream nowadays when one process, which can't be "paralleled" on one CPU system because it has no "external events" to wait, can now be split into several sub-processes/threads to be scheduled to run on several CPUs/cores available within one computer - that's new for mass market PCs, but this concept of Parallelism/multi-threading is rather old coming from supercomputers - CRAY and CDC there, and Elbrus here (also 60ies AFAIKR)... Please correct me if I'm wrong. What's so new with "the new Parallelism" you mentioned? What am I missing? - Let's define this discussion thread context: I do not mention "neural networks" and "clouds" here - we are talking within context of one physical unit having several CPUs/cores and controlled by one operation system instance, correct?... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 1:50 AM To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.' Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Parallelism Hi Shamil: Please note that the lecturer gave a very strict line of difference between multi-threaded applications and the new Parallelism... they are very different in coding, deployment and performance. It now appears that the preparation of coding will now take twice as long but it appears to be the only way to be able to get full performance from our new multi-cored computers. I understand that some Linux systems manage the Parallelism within their kernels so a new application may not see as great as performance advantage as on a Windows OS... but some List members may have far greater insight, on this subject, than I do. I had previously sent an email to Tiberiu Covaci asking for some clarification on the points and differences and as soon as I hear a reply, I will share that information. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 2:08 PM To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.' Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Parallelism Hi Jim -- Yes, multi-threaded apps development is a very interesting and useful stuff: I do actively use multi-thereading in my customers' real life 24x7x365 .NET applications, but I still have a lot to learn/to do (and that learning by doing promise to last forever :)) - the only thing I can say for sure now is that multi-threading development is at least a matter of magnitude more complicated and time consuming than a "mere" conventional single-threaded apps development. Hopefully the new MS technologies - .NET Framework, C# 4.0 and PLINQ will help to lower this complexity a bit(?)... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 6:55 PM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'; 'Discussion concerning MS SQL Server'; dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] Parallelism Hi All: A couple of nights ago, I went to a series of lectures given by a fellow named Tiberiu Covaci, Swedish owner of a company called Multi-Core and he is now doing a tour as a trainer for Microsoft. (His next lecture stop will be in New Orleans.) His training lecture was on Parallelism. The first lecture covered the basic concepts of computers and their new multi-core design, a design made necessary as single core computers ran into the physical wall as of 2005. He then went on to describe the attempts by developers to utilize these new multi-core systems. It has been a slow process as you can imagine. The rudimentary attempts of threading and hyper-threading were far from successful. First a single thread will consume up to 200 cycles just to get substantiated and its deployment still requires the central CPU and to spawn hundreds of threads, in a pool and then there was the issues of synchronizing the process results. Even the best developed multi-threaded applications, like MS SQL 2005 could over-load a computer when challenged by a heavy duty task. MS even went so far as to apply a system lock when performing resource heavy jobs... that means all other functionality on the server would cease... no multi-tasking, until the job was completed... even then sometimes a process would freeze up a server. (We have all heard of that exact situation from a number of our DBA members.) Our lecturer had designed a couple of short programs to showed how multi-threading was implemented and then demonstrated how these apps when over-loaded would crash or lock out the system. He used a Quick-sort, demo while splitting it into multiple pieces, multi-threading it and slowly increasing the sort data showed a 30 percent gain per thread and a 70 percent gain per core (maximum gain) but it also showed virtually not performance loss as the data increased (10 to 100 million records) until the process locked up the CPU. We watched the system progress via the Task Manger's CPU display. Lecture two; enter Parallelism. This process has being developed on the latest versions of Java and .Net frame work (4 or greater). He demonstrated two new core features/objects Parallel and Task. Using Parallelism requires a bit to decompose a problem into its components. He used an example of a recipe where a number of steps was required from initial preparation, to the cooking and to the table. The program which ended calculating the time was initially designed in a standard C# routine. The app was then recoded using Parallel running tasks. Each task can run independently, but wait for a process to be completed if required by scheduling, monitoring a semaphore, event, state and/or wait loops. We also covered how to handle synchronization, data sharing and how to avoid deadlocks. By using pararllelism the meal was completed in half the time... It showed how 6 people could do a job faster than one... now that's obvious but maybe not so obvious with a computer application. The most telling observation was when viewing the Task Manger's CPU display. No matter how heavy the requirements that were imposed on the system, the CPU demand remained very low and flat and each core showed an even distribution of utilization. I was totally impressed. Now I know how such super databases as Cassandra, using Java Parallelism works. My suggestion to all those of you using MS SQL 2005 or less; "Bail out quick and get you hands on the latest MS SQL... there will be no comparison in performance." A couple of recommended books on the subject are: "Patterns of Parallel Processing" and "Concurrent Programming on Windows" The latest .Net has all these features built in...just ready to use. Jim _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Sat May 22 18:28:55 2010 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Sun, 23 May 2010 03:28:55 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Parallelism In-Reply-To: <7B2D6C891C63473CA06F71513D77F828@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <34FFB67A32A64A85A1D61422E34D40CE@creativesystemdesigns.com><73FC6395D2CA47639932C5A5B5204FEE@creativesystemdesigns.com><3E23E4865861413788D4FD433E981005@creativesystemdesigns.com><4A52241149474D76AA93A21F31C31BDA@creativesystemdesigns.com><000a01caf797$5f4ffb40$6501a8c0@nant><1C9DD9C7D00C4033867EC6E149EEC34C@creativesystemdesigns.com><114E8EB89D7E4498B14A6E84FA27EF84@nant> <7B2D6C891C63473CA06F71513D77F828@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Hi Jim -- Yes, "fork", but before that was IBM360, which has had special hardware and operation system software to handle Input/Output channels, multiplexing console input etc. - and when that special hardware has been working for input/output CPU was idle, and could have been used by other application processes - AFAIKR even PL/1 has had some function calls to start and handle long running "independent" threads within a running process/task, but starting an independent task that wasn't possible on application programs level (?) for IBM360 MFT and MVT OSes, and in mid-1970-ies, the next IBM OS, MVS, has got multi-processor systems support they say: well that all was very expensive that times of course and not broadly available as nowadays multi-core mass market computer systems but all nowadays Parallelism and Multi-Threading concepts were mainly developed during that "ancient" times: and then came MS and has been keeping us in "preemptive multitasking" "straitjacket" for almost 20 years - was that good, bad, necessary and inevitable MS-driven "moderation and control" for technology mass market to mature?... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 2:04 AM To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.' Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Parallelism Hi Shamil: Since the first Unix system added the command 'Fork' there has been parallel processing... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fork_(operating_system) Yes, it could have very well been the 60's Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 12:44 PM To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.' Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Parallelism Hi Jim -- Thank you for your remark. Yes, I suppose I do realize the difference between multi-threading and Parallelism. And I suppose I do use both here in my everyday development: - Parallelism can be implemented by using multi-threading (long running threads usually performing conceptually different tasks) but it can be also implemented by running independent processes... - Multi-threading is usually treated as multiple short-living threads/-sub-processes running within one process, and often performing conceptually the same tasks, at least most of the threads of a multi-threaded application... Both Parallelism and Multi-threading can be implemented on one CPU provided independent processes or threads have some waiting/idle time - waiting for some external events to happen/tasks to be processed - that concept exists since IBM 360 MFT OS times (early 60-ies?)... Both Parallelism and Multi-Threading are getting mainstream nowadays when one process, which can't be "paralleled" on one CPU system because it has no "external events" to wait, can now be split into several sub-processes/threads to be scheduled to run on several CPUs/cores available within one computer - that's new for mass market PCs, but this concept of Parallelism/multi-threading is rather old coming from supercomputers - CRAY and CDC there, and Elbrus here (also 60ies AFAIKR)... Please correct me if I'm wrong. What's so new with "the new Parallelism" you mentioned? What am I missing? - Let's define this discussion thread context: I do not mention "neural networks" and "clouds" here - we are talking within context of one physical unit having several CPUs/cores and controlled by one operation system instance, correct?... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 1:50 AM To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.' Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Parallelism Hi Shamil: Please note that the lecturer gave a very strict line of difference between multi-threaded applications and the new Parallelism... they are very different in coding, deployment and performance. It now appears that the preparation of coding will now take twice as long but it appears to be the only way to be able to get full performance from our new multi-cored computers. I understand that some Linux systems manage the Parallelism within their kernels so a new application may not see as great as performance advantage as on a Windows OS... but some List members may have far greater insight, on this subject, than I do. I had previously sent an email to Tiberiu Covaci asking for some clarification on the points and differences and as soon as I hear a reply, I will share that information. Jim <<< snip >>> From accessd at shaw.ca Sun May 23 12:00:34 2010 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sun, 23 May 2010 10:00:34 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Parallelism In-Reply-To: References: <34FFB67A32A64A85A1D61422E34D40CE@creativesystemdesigns.com> <73FC6395D2CA47639932C5A5B5204FEE@creativesystemdesigns.com> <3E23E4865861413788D4FD433E981005@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4A52241149474D76AA93A21F31C31BDA@creativesystemdesigns.com> <000a01caf797$5f4ffb40$6501a8c0@nant> <1C9DD9C7D00C4033867EC6E149EEC34C@creativesystemdesigns.com> <114E8EB89D7E4498B14A6E84FA27EF84@nant> <7B2D6C891C63473CA06F71513D77F828@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: The single-user, single-tasking system detuned from CPM and Unix called DOS... the one with the backward slash: "\"? I worked on that mini IBM 360, many years ago, along with the VAX-11/780 and PDP-11/70 (the whole Vax line is gone now but their virtual OS (the first production version of Unix and subsequently ATT UNIX and derivitives BSD and SCO), directory interface and structure was a fore-runner of all our current systems.) Linux systems in the interim have been our poor man's multi-tasking and multi-user system since 1994-1995. Even Mac have moved to a freeBSD core. Microsoft's desktop computers can be made multi-user with a few good hacks but that is not officially supported. There is so many different threading models but to my understanding real Parallelism (which appears to function as a load balancer, across CPU, threading model) can not be truly implemented on any computer but one with multi-cores and those systems, for the average user, have only been in the market since 2005-2006. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 4:29 PM To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.' Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Parallelism Hi Jim -- Yes, "fork", but before that was IBM360, which has had special hardware and operation system software to handle Input/Output channels, multiplexing console input etc. - and when that special hardware has been working for input/output CPU was idle, and could have been used by other application processes - AFAIKR even PL/1 has had some function calls to start and handle long running "independent" threads within a running process/task, but starting an independent task that wasn't possible on application programs level (?) for IBM360 MFT and MVT OSes, and in mid-1970-ies, the next IBM OS, MVS, has got multi-processor systems support they say: well that all was very expensive that times of course and not broadly available as nowadays multi-core mass market computer systems but all nowadays Parallelism and Multi-Threading concepts were mainly developed during that "ancient" times: and then came MS and has been keeping us in "preemptive multitasking" "straitjacket" for almost 20 years - was that good, bad, necessary and inevitable MS-driven "moderation and control" for technology mass market to mature?... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 2:04 AM To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.' Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Parallelism Hi Shamil: Since the first Unix system added the command 'Fork' there has been parallel processing... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fork_(operating_system) Yes, it could have very well been the 60's Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 12:44 PM To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.' Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Parallelism Hi Jim -- Thank you for your remark. Yes, I suppose I do realize the difference between multi-threading and Parallelism. And I suppose I do use both here in my everyday development: - Parallelism can be implemented by using multi-threading (long running threads usually performing conceptually different tasks) but it can be also implemented by running independent processes... - Multi-threading is usually treated as multiple short-living threads/-sub-processes running within one process, and often performing conceptually the same tasks, at least most of the threads of a multi-threaded application... Both Parallelism and Multi-threading can be implemented on one CPU provided independent processes or threads have some waiting/idle time - waiting for some external events to happen/tasks to be processed - that concept exists since IBM 360 MFT OS times (early 60-ies?)... Both Parallelism and Multi-Threading are getting mainstream nowadays when one process, which can't be "paralleled" on one CPU system because it has no "external events" to wait, can now be split into several sub-processes/threads to be scheduled to run on several CPUs/cores available within one computer - that's new for mass market PCs, but this concept of Parallelism/multi-threading is rather old coming from supercomputers - CRAY and CDC there, and Elbrus here (also 60ies AFAIKR)... Please correct me if I'm wrong. What's so new with "the new Parallelism" you mentioned? What am I missing? - Let's define this discussion thread context: I do not mention "neural networks" and "clouds" here - we are talking within context of one physical unit having several CPUs/cores and controlled by one operation system instance, correct?... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 1:50 AM To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.' Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Parallelism Hi Shamil: Please note that the lecturer gave a very strict line of difference between multi-threaded applications and the new Parallelism... they are very different in coding, deployment and performance. It now appears that the preparation of coding will now take twice as long but it appears to be the only way to be able to get full performance from our new multi-cored computers. I understand that some Linux systems manage the Parallelism within their kernels so a new application may not see as great as performance advantage as on a Windows OS... but some List members may have far greater insight, on this subject, than I do. I had previously sent an email to Tiberiu Covaci asking for some clarification on the points and differences and as soon as I hear a reply, I will share that information. Jim <<< snip >>> _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri May 7 12:55:27 2010 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 07 May 2010 19:55:27 +0200 Subject: [dba-VB] Cassandra (was: A couple of great articles on latest and greatest) Message-ID: Hi Jim It is not easy to get hold on this monster. Here are some useful links I found: WTF is a SuperColumn? An Intro to the Cassandra Data Model: http://arin.me/blog/wtf-is-a-supercolumn-cassandra-data-model Cassandra Jump Start For The Windows Developer: http://www.coderjournal.com/2010/03/cassandra-jump-start-for-the-windows-developer/ Thrift Wiki. Basic requirements for win32: http://wiki.apache.org/thrift/ThriftInstallationWin32 Nick Berardi's managedfusion / fluentcassandra: FluentCassandra is a .NET library for accessing Cassandra, which wraps the Thrift client library and provides a more fluent POCO interface for accessing and querying the objects in Cassandra. http://github.com/managedfusion/fluentcassandra/blob/master/README.mkd#readme Nick Berardi's C# CasandraDemo: https://code.google.com/p/coderjournal/source/browse/trunk/Posts/2010/03/CassandraDemo.cs So much to read and learn ... /gustav >>> accessd at shaw.ca 07-05-2010 16:25 >>> For a brief moment there Terabyte was the size ultimate but that point passed quickly and the computer world went on to Pentabyte; well that point of ultimate has now again been surpassed as we have Zettabytes. http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2010/may/03/humanity-digital-output-zet tabyte Some latest information from some who have been experimenting with the new super database called Cassandra. Notice through the performances trials the CPU utilization remains flat! The team pushed the product to see where better utilization could be achieved and noted setting caching would help performance... But keep in mind this DBs performance is so far beyond our standard SQLs. http://jamesgolick.com/2010/4/4/two-weeks-with-cassandra.html An aside: It will be a while before the hard drive bottle-neck is really fully resolved. Right now splitting a data store across numerous drives, all indexed and cashed is the only way to lessen the performance pain. That is why the new breed of distributive databases are so fast because they manage the hardware layer so well. Our current crop of standard SQLs just leave the hardware to manage it's self. Jim _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Johncliviger at aol.com Sun May 9 13:23:30 2010 From: Johncliviger at aol.com (Johncliviger at aol.com) Date: Sun, 9 May 2010 14:23:30 EDT Subject: [dba-VB] Moving controls at runtime Message-ID: <14dc4.69e4f4a5.391857a2@aol.com> Hi Guys, I need to permit users at runtime to move controls around a Form. And I've done that my using the Mouse Up, Move and Down events and it even works. Great! But I now need to save/persist those new XY location numbers. After much scratching of the old head I concluded that I should store them in Mysettings. The question is ..is that the best way to save the new settings and some pointers on how to code it will be most useful. A Sunday afternoon has passed without much progress and the dog is ignoring me due to the lack of a walk. TIA john cliviger O yes. I using vb.net 2005 From accessd at shaw.ca Mon May 10 17:03:30 2010 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 15:03:30 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] New unstoppable malware on the horizon In-Reply-To: References: <386C9B6DF71A4523858967C65AD50030@HAL9005> Message-ID: <50437C7E0164474A8DB4BEE7D111F0C6@creativesystemdesigns.com> Now that most of our new computers are multi-cored and capable of running processes in parallel, it appears, unfortunately that most of our software has not taken advance of this new capability or do most programmers even know how to. Here in lies the danger. Our best virus protection software is just designed for single core processes. A company has pointed out the weakness to our situation and how to take advantage of it. It works like the old bait and switch routine. While the current protection software is busy validating some innocuous file or software the malware is busy pushing a zombie through via a parallel process. Very slick: http://www.matousec.com/info/articles/khobe-8.0-earthquake-for-windows-deskt op-security-software.php Now that the knowledge of how to build unstoppable malware is out there how long do we have to wait until our protection software is ready to stop the inevitable flood? Jim From michael at ddisolutions.com.au Wed May 12 18:39:06 2010 From: michael at ddisolutions.com.au (Michael Maddison) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 09:39:06 +1000 Subject: [dba-VB] Web project advice Message-ID: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B59C8@ddi-01.DDI.local> Hi Guys, Just looking for some feedback. I've been asked to quote on a small website for a cattle stud. It's not a complex site but the user has asked for the ability to add/update beast stud info. He says he needs to do this once a year. I've used DNN before but it seems like overkill for this spec. Adding/removing maybe 10 entries a year. Any thoughts/recommendations? Cheers Michael M From ha at phulse.com Wed May 12 18:47:42 2010 From: ha at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 00:47:42 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Web project advice In-Reply-To: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B59C8@ddi-01.DDI.local> References: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B59C8@ddi-01.DDI.local> Message-ID: For something really lightweight and basic, that requires just occasional updates, Wordpress, despite being a blogging platform, makes a very simple to set up and effective cms. I personally use it in that context. Hans-Christian Software Developer, UK ----------------------------------------------------------------- tel: +44 (0)782 894 5456 e-mail: hans.andersen at phulse.com www: nokenode.com ----------------------------------------------------------------- Unique Gifts, Collectables, Artwork ----------------------------------------------------------------- Come one Come all to www.corinnajasmine.com ----------------------------------------------------------------- On 13 May 2010 00:39, Michael Maddison wrote: > Hi Guys, > > > > Just looking for some feedback. > > I've been asked to quote on a small website for a cattle stud. > > It's not a complex site but the user has asked for the ability to > add/update beast stud info. He says he needs to do this once a year. > > I've used DNN before but it seems like overkill for this spec. > > Adding/removing maybe 10 entries a year. > > > > Any thoughts/recommendations? > > > > Cheers > > > > Michael M > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From michael at ddisolutions.com.au Wed May 12 19:03:37 2010 From: michael at ddisolutions.com.au (Michael Maddison) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 10:03:37 +1000 Subject: [dba-VB] Web project advice References: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B59C8@ddi-01.DDI.local> Message-ID: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B59C9@ddi-01.DDI.local> Wow, Never would have thought of that :-) I'll check it out. Cheers Michael -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian Andersen Sent: Thursday, 13 May 2010 9:48 AM To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues. Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Web project advice For something really lightweight and basic, that requires just occasional updates, Wordpress, despite being a blogging platform, makes a very simple to set up and effective cms. I personally use it in that context. Hans-Christian Software Developer, UK ----------------------------------------------------------------- tel: +44 (0)782 894 5456 e-mail: hans.andersen at phulse.com www: nokenode.com ----------------------------------------------------------------- Unique Gifts, Collectables, Artwork ----------------------------------------------------------------- Come one Come all to www.corinnajasmine.com ----------------------------------------------------------------- On 13 May 2010 00:39, Michael Maddison wrote: > Hi Guys, > > > > Just looking for some feedback. > > I've been asked to quote on a small website for a cattle stud. > > It's not a complex site but the user has asked for the ability to > add/update beast stud info. He says he needs to do this once a year. > > I've used DNN before but it seems like overkill for this spec. > > Adding/removing maybe 10 entries a year. > > > > Any thoughts/recommendations? > > > > Cheers > > > > Michael M > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2860 - Release Date: 05/13/10 04:26:00 From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Wed May 12 21:17:23 2010 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 22:17:23 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Web project advice In-Reply-To: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B59C8@ddi-01.DDI.local> References: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B59C8@ddi-01.DDI.local> Message-ID: <0AAC78A97456476EBDEFAE52668BC2B1@jislaptopdev> ...why reinvent the wheel ...just find a stud farm web template ...quick look says there are plenty available. William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Michael Maddison" Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 7:39 PM To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Subject: [dba-VB] Web project advice > Hi Guys, > > > > Just looking for some feedback. > > I've been asked to quote on a small website for a cattle stud. > > It's not a complex site but the user has asked for the ability to > add/update beast stud info. He says he needs to do this once a year. > > I've used DNN before but it seems like overkill for this spec. > > Adding/removing maybe 10 entries a year. > > > > Any thoughts/recommendations? > > > > Cheers > > > > Michael M > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu May 13 01:59:21 2010 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 08:59:21 +0200 Subject: [dba-VB] Web project advice Message-ID: Hi Michael Or Google Apps: http://www.google.com/apps/intl/en/business/sites.html /gustav >>> michael at ddisolutions.com.au 13-05-2010 01:39 >>> Hi Guys, Just looking for some feedback. I've been asked to quote on a small website for a cattle stud. It's not a complex site but the user has asked for the ability to add/update beast stud info. He says he needs to do this once a year. I've used DNN before but it seems like overkill for this spec. Adding/removing maybe 10 entries a year. Any thoughts/recommendations? Cheers Michael M _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Thu May 13 03:02:37 2010 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 12:02:37 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Web project advice In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001e01caf272$a7f0cc50$6501a8c0@nant> <<< Google Apps: >>> Hi Gustav -- Do you know do they (Google Apps) plan to have somehow introduced Mercurial source code control/repositories support? Thank you. --Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 10:59 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Web project advice Hi Michael Or Google Apps: http://www.google.com/apps/intl/en/business/sites.html /gustav >>> michael at ddisolutions.com.au 13-05-2010 01:39 >>> Hi Guys, Just looking for some feedback. I've been asked to quote on a small website for a cattle stud. It's not a complex site but the user has asked for the ability to add/update beast stud info. He says he needs to do this once a year. I've used DNN before but it seems like overkill for this spec. Adding/removing maybe 10 entries a year. Any thoughts/recommendations? Cheers Michael M From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu May 13 05:20:21 2010 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 12:20:21 +0200 Subject: [dba-VB] Web project advice Message-ID: Hi Shamil No, I have no idea. I haven't coded anything with Google tools. /gustav >>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 13-05-2010 10:02 >>> <<< Google Apps: >>> Hi Gustav -- Do you know do they (Google Apps) plan to have somehow introduced Mercurial source code control/repositories support? Thank you. --Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 10:59 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Web project advice Hi Michael Or Google Apps: http://www.google.com/apps/intl/en/business/sites.html /gustav >>> michael at ddisolutions.com.au 13-05-2010 01:39 >>> Hi Guys, Just looking for some feedback. I've been asked to quote on a small website for a cattle stud. It's not a complex site but the user has asked for the ability to add/update beast stud info. He says he needs to do this once a year. I've used DNN before but it seems like overkill for this spec. Adding/removing maybe 10 entries a year. Any thoughts/recommendations? Cheers Michael M From marklbreen at gmail.com Thu May 13 05:19:35 2010 From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 11:19:35 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Web project advice In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Michael, I have set up about 100 sites now with Google apps, I can do them in approx 15 minutes if I have the content. It is free and you get the benefit of corporate quality email as well. Remember you need to select the Standard Edition as opposed to the Premium Edition. It has a list / table style template page which works well. Google Gadgets work really great also, especially the maps and you tube integration HTH, Mark On 13 May 2010 07:59, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Michael > > Or Google Apps: > > http://www.google.com/apps/intl/en/business/sites.html > > /gustav > > > >>> michael at ddisolutions.com.au 13-05-2010 01:39 >>> > Hi Guys, > > > > Just looking for some feedback. > > I've been asked to quote on a small website for a cattle stud. > > It's not a complex site but the user has asked for the ability to > add/update beast stud info. He says he needs to do this once a year. > > I've used DNN before but it seems like overkill for this spec. > > Adding/removing maybe 10 entries a year. > > > > Any thoughts/recommendations? > > > > Cheers > > > > Michael M > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Thu May 13 09:34:53 2010 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 09:34:53 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] Moving controls at runtime In-Reply-To: <14dc4.69e4f4a5.391857a2@aol.com> References: <14dc4.69e4f4a5.391857a2@aol.com> Message-ID: John, I have two methods for tracking this sort of info in the main application I develop on (I'm not into developing much anymore). The application I am referring to is a networked app, that runs on every desktop at my company, so it is possible that the same user would use the app on different machines. So I determine if I want the 'feature' to be remembered by user, or by desktop. By user, I store the data in a table in the database, retrieved when the user logs in. By machine, I store the data in a text file that is loaded and saved when the app starts and stops. I don't have any controls moving around, but I do allow many forms to be resized, and so on the OnLoad event of each form I have a 'FormOpen Me' statement that runs a function with a reference to the form as an argument, which lets the function retrieve the size and position values based on the form name, from the text file data, and then apply that information to the form. On the Unload event, I have 'FormClose Me' which then records the values for the form to be saved in the text file. The app I refer too is a VB 6 app. I use a class module called 'LocalSettings' to store this data. Here's the .ini file that is on my desktop right now for this application: RAdminPath=C:\Program Files (x86)\Radmin Viewer 3\Radmin.exe frmPhoneList-Top=1875 frmPhoneList-Left=1875 frmPhoneList-Width=6780 frmPhoneList-Height=7005 When the app loads, it's populating a collection with the items on the left of the equal sign as the keys and the items on the right as the values. The 'LocalSettings' class simply retrieves, stores, and records those values without caring what they are. So on the FormOpen method, I simply have the following: Me.Top=MyLocalSettings.LocalProperty(Me.Name & "-Top") And so on. Obviously I have a line to determine that there is recorded info for the form, before it moves or resizes anything (the first time a form would be opened, there would be no info for it). The data I store in the database, so it would transfer from machine to machine, is actually less simple. Screen sizes and positions aren't things I would want globally stored because different machines can have different resolutions and monitor sizes. Drew -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Johncliviger at aol.com Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 1:24 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] Moving controls at runtime Hi Guys, I need to permit users at runtime to move controls around a Form. And I've done that my using the Mouse Up, Move and Down events and it even works. Great! But I now need to save/persist those new XY location numbers. After much scratching of the old head I concluded that I should store them in Mysettings. The question is ..is that the best way to save the new settings and some pointers on how to code it will be most useful. A Sunday afternoon has passed without much progress and the dog is ignoring me due to the lack of a walk. TIA john cliviger O yes. I using vb.net 2005 _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From marklbreen at gmail.com Thu May 13 10:02:27 2010 From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 16:02:27 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] OT - Good Karma Wristlets Message-ID: Hello Friends My 11 year old daughter named Caitlin has her own little Google Apps website, www.caitlinbreen.com. She has recently been platting bracelets with some wool and has been giving them to friends in school. She calls them Good Karma Wristlets. The idea being she gives them for free and you receive them for free, but when you get one, you have to pass on the Good Karma. On her site, you can see that she has included a photo of some of the Wristlets, they are not too complex as you can see, but her and her friends are enjoying them. If you have a daughter / son / friend / wife / husband that would like one, please drop Caitlin a line and she will send you a Wristlet. Please feel free to pass on this email to anyone you think appropriate. I hope it is OK to include this on the list. As most of the list members are outside Ireland, it will be exciting for her to see requests from "abroad". You do not need mention that her Dad drew the site to your attention :). Some of you know me- and might even vouch for me - and know that I am on AccessD since 1997 so I am not seeking to sell you anything here, of course. Thanks a lot, Mark Breen Ireland From garykjos at gmail.com Thu May 13 10:15:08 2010 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 10:15:08 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] [dba-Tech] OT - Good Karma Wristlets In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Mark, No problem with the posting. Sounds like fun. GK On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 10:02 AM, Mark Breen wrote: > Hello Friends > > My 11 year old daughter named Caitlin has her own little Google Apps > website, www.caitlinbreen.com. > > She has recently been platting bracelets with some wool and has been giving > them to friends in school. ?She calls them Good Karma Wristlets. ?The idea > being she gives them for free and you receive them for free, but when you > get one, you have to pass on the Good Karma. ?On her site, you can see that > she has included a photo of some of the Wristlets, they are not too complex > as you can see, but her and her friends are enjoying them. > > If you have a daughter / son / friend / wife / husband that would like one, > please drop Caitlin a line and she will send you a Wristlet. > > Please feel free to pass on this email to anyone you think appropriate. > > I hope it is OK to include this on the list. ?As most of the list members > are outside Ireland, it will be exciting for her to see requests from > "abroad". ?You do not need mention that her Dad drew the site to your > attention :). > > Some of you know me- and might even vouch for me - and know that I am on > AccessD since 1997 so I am not seeking to sell you anything here, of course. > > Thanks a lot, > > Mark Breen > Ireland > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From marklbreen at gmail.com Thu May 13 13:39:13 2010 From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 19:39:13 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] OT - Good Karma Wristlets In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello All, just FYI, I messed up the email, so if you wrote to Caitlin within the last few hours, you probably got a bounce, it is fixed now, sorry about that, thanks again, Mark On 13 May 2010 16:02, Mark Breen wrote: > Hello Friends > > My 11 year old daughter named Caitlin has her own little Google Apps > website, www.caitlinbreen.com. > > She has recently been platting bracelets with some wool and has been giving > them to friends in school. She calls them Good Karma Wristlets. The idea > being she gives them for free and you receive them for free, but when you > get one, you have to pass on the Good Karma. On her site, you can see that > she has included a photo of some of the Wristlets, they are not too complex > as you can see, but her and her friends are enjoying them. > > If you have a daughter / son / friend / wife / husband that would like one, > please drop Caitlin a line and she will send you a Wristlet. > > Please feel free to pass on this email to anyone you think appropriate. > > I hope it is OK to include this on the list. As most of the list members > are outside Ireland, it will be exciting for her to see requests from > "abroad". You do not need mention that her Dad drew the site to your > attention :). > > Some of you know me- and might even vouch for me - and know that I am on > AccessD since 1997 so I am not seeking to sell you anything here, of course. > > Thanks a lot, > > Mark Breen > Ireland > From Johncliviger at aol.com Thu May 13 13:57:09 2010 From: Johncliviger at aol.com (Johncliviger at aol.com) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 14:57:09 EDT Subject: [dba-VB] Moving controls at runtime Message-ID: <4f48a.119b406b.391da585@aol.com> Hi Drew Thank you for the info. I've just read it. I need to think it thru. I'll come back. regards john cliviger From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Thu May 13 17:18:01 2010 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 18:18:01 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Moving controls at runtime In-Reply-To: <14dc4.69e4f4a5.391857a2@aol.com> References: <14dc4.69e4f4a5.391857a2@aol.com> Message-ID: John I've sent you an mdb off line that lets users move labels around a form and stores the positions in a table for retrieval ...I played with it as a floor planning solution but ultimately the limits on the number of controls on a single form made it unusable for the app I needed it for ...but it sounds like it might meet your needs ...hth William -------------------------------------------------- From: Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 2:23 PM To: Subject: [dba-VB] Moving controls at runtime > Hi Guys, > > I need to permit users at runtime to move controls around a Form. And I've > done that my using the Mouse Up, Move and Down events and it even works. > Great! But I now need to save/persist those new XY location numbers. > After > much scratching of the old head I concluded that I should store them in > Mysettings. > > The question is ..is that the best way to save the new settings and some > pointers on how to code it will be most useful. A Sunday afternoon has > passed without much progress and the dog is ignoring me due to the lack of > a > walk. > > TIA > john cliviger > > O yes. I using vb.net 2005 > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From michael at ddisolutions.com.au Thu May 13 18:22:41 2010 From: michael at ddisolutions.com.au (Michael Maddison) Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 09:22:41 +1000 Subject: [dba-VB] Web project advice References: Message-ID: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B59E0@ddi-01.DDI.local> I'm curious about how you go about charging for using a platform like google apps or wordpress? How do you 'sell' the concept? I should probably go and try one out I guess :-) Cheers Michael Hello Michael, I have set up about 100 sites now with Google apps, I can do them in approx 15 minutes if I have the content. It is free and you get the benefit of corporate quality email as well. Remember you need to select the Standard Edition as opposed to the Premium Edition. It has a list / table style template page which works well. Google Gadgets work really great also, especially the maps and you tube integration HTH, Mark On 13 May 2010 07:59, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Michael > > Or Google Apps: > > http://www.google.com/apps/intl/en/business/sites.html > > /gustav > > > >>> michael at ddisolutions.com.au 13-05-2010 01:39 >>> > Hi Guys, > > > > Just looking for some feedback. > > I've been asked to quote on a small website for a cattle stud. > > It's not a complex site but the user has asked for the ability to > add/update beast stud info. He says he needs to do this once a year. > > I've used DNN before but it seems like overkill for this spec. > > Adding/removing maybe 10 entries a year. > > > > Any thoughts/recommendations? > > > > Cheers > > > > Michael M > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2870 - Release Date: 05/13/10 04:26:00 From michael at ddisolutions.com.au Thu May 13 18:28:36 2010 From: michael at ddisolutions.com.au (Michael Maddison) Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 09:28:36 +1000 Subject: [dba-VB] Web project advice References: Message-ID: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B59E1@ddi-01.DDI.local> Cant find a trial option and I'm not sure I should use my real domain to try it out? How much flexibility do you have with styles/laying out the pages? 15 minutes??? I'll go broke :-( Cheers Michael Hello Michael, I have set up about 100 sites now with Google apps, I can do them in approx 15 minutes if I have the content. It is free and you get the benefit of corporate quality email as well. Remember you need to select the Standard Edition as opposed to the Premium Edition. It has a list / table style template page which works well. Google Gadgets work really great also, especially the maps and you tube integration HTH, Mark On 13 May 2010 07:59, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Michael > > Or Google Apps: > > http://www.google.com/apps/intl/en/business/sites.html > > /gustav > > > >>> michael at ddisolutions.com.au 13-05-2010 01:39 >>> > Hi Guys, > > > > Just looking for some feedback. > > I've been asked to quote on a small website for a cattle stud. > > It's not a complex site but the user has asked for the ability to > add/update beast stud info. He says he needs to do this once a year. > > I've used DNN before but it seems like overkill for this spec. > > Adding/removing maybe 10 entries a year. > > > > Any thoughts/recommendations? > > > > Cheers > > > > Michael M > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2870 - Release Date: 05/13/10 04:26:00 From marklbreen at gmail.com Fri May 14 03:13:51 2010 From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen) Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 09:13:51 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Web project advice In-Reply-To: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B59E1@ddi-01.DDI.local> References: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B59E1@ddi-01.DDI.local> Message-ID: Hello Michael, You have two choices when you create a google apps site 1) use a previously created domain name that is not really currently being used for anything else 2) Allow Google and their domain registration partners (Go Daddy and Enum) to create a .com domain for you for $10 I usually prefer option 1 because it allows me to seperate out the management of the domain name and the domain hosting (the google bit). However the slight complication with option 1 is that you have to create the C Records and the MX Records yourself. If you have not done this previously, it can seem daunting, although in reality it is not difficult and there are loads of instructions out there. In Option 2 Google will do ahead and open a Go Daddy / Enum account for you, pay the 10 USD and then they will set the C Names and MX Records all automagically. This works a treat and is very slick. However, if you do not currently have a google account and if that Google account does not currently have payment facilities set up, you will have to do that as part of the process. This can take the shine off the slickness, but once it is done, option 2 is slick. So, assuming you have chosen Option 1 or 2, the total cost now of playing with Google Apps is ?10 for the domain registration. I customarily create domains and sometimes forget about them once I have tested a particular point. I frequently register domains with names such as www.test14052010.com As Gustav will probably agree, Google Apps is an incredible solution for free, the email facilities alone are great and for small businesses that was to pay just $10 per year for their domain registration, this is a great way to have full cloud email, and full website facilities backed up by Google. How to make money from it? Well, there are a few ways 1) I usually create the sites for free for people and openly tell them it is only 15 - 30 minutes work. Sometimes they throw me ?50 or ?100 which is nice pocket money when it comes. They they manage the site from there. 2) Sometimes when people have no desire to manage the site at all, I set a small fee to do the whole lot for them, but I always tell them inadvance they can do it themselves if they wish. I still only create four or five pages sites and I KISS. 3) As expected when you give away time for free as I have done with google apps, they then come back a month or more later asking for a database system to be built, and this is where I make my real money. In summary: As a free tool, Google apps really fills a need in the market. If we charge ?500 per site we take away the neatness of the the free solution. So I like to leave it as a free solution and charge down the line or one the site for the service I provide. I have also ran some "Build your own website" courses for a small local organisation where I insist that they will have a site up after two tough days. Because I do them for free, I do one or two per month, and because I do so many, I am not very fast at creating the site. To be honest, it does not really make me money, but I love to see people with a website running in the cloud for just the $10 is takes to register a domain. Is that any help? thanks Mark On 14 May 2010 00:28, Michael Maddison wrote: > Cant find a trial option and I'm not sure I should use my real domain to > try it out? > How much flexibility do you have with styles/laying out the pages? > 15 minutes??? I'll go broke :-( > > Cheers > > Michael > > > Hello Michael, > > I have set up about 100 sites now with Google apps, I can do them in > approx > 15 minutes if I have the content. > > It is free and you get the benefit of corporate quality email as well. > > Remember you need to select the Standard Edition as opposed to the > Premium > Edition. > > It has a list / table style template page which works well. > > Google Gadgets work really great also, especially the maps and you tube > integration > > HTH, > > Mark > > > On 13 May 2010 07:59, Gustav Brock wrote: > > > Hi Michael > > > > Or Google Apps: > > > > http://www.google.com/apps/intl/en/business/sites.html > > > > /gustav > > > > > > >>> michael at ddisolutions.com.au 13-05-2010 01:39 >>> > > Hi Guys, > > > > > > > > Just looking for some feedback. > > > > I've been asked to quote on a small website for a cattle stud. > > > > It's not a complex site but the user has asked for the ability to > > add/update beast stud info. He says he needs to do this once a year. > > > > I've used DNN before but it seems like overkill for this spec. > > > > Adding/removing maybe 10 entries a year. > > > > > > > > Any thoughts/recommendations? > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > > > Michael M > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2870 - Release Date: 05/13/10 > 04:26:00 > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From michael at ddisolutions.com.au Sat May 15 01:37:13 2010 From: michael at ddisolutions.com.au (Michael Maddison) Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 16:37:13 +1000 Subject: [dba-VB] Web project advice References: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B59E1@ddi-01.DDI.local> Message-ID: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B59ED@ddi-01.DDI.local> Hi Mark, Very interesting. I think I'll offer 3 choices... 1. Static site maintained at hourly rate. 2. Google option, setup at hourly rate that he can take over if he chooses. 3. DNN site, setup for fixed fee that he can take control of. Cheers Michael Hello Michael, You have two choices when you create a google apps site 1) use a previously created domain name that is not really currently being used for anything else 2) Allow Google and their domain registration partners (Go Daddy and Enum) to create a .com domain for you for $10 I usually prefer option 1 because it allows me to seperate out the management of the domain name and the domain hosting (the google bit). However the slight complication with option 1 is that you have to create the C Records and the MX Records yourself. If you have not done this previously, it can seem daunting, although in reality it is not difficult and there are loads of instructions out there. In Option 2 Google will do ahead and open a Go Daddy / Enum account for you, pay the 10 USD and then they will set the C Names and MX Records all automagically. This works a treat and is very slick. However, if you do not currently have a google account and if that Google account does not currently have payment facilities set up, you will have to do that as part of the process. This can take the shine off the slickness, but once it is done, option 2 is slick. So, assuming you have chosen Option 1 or 2, the total cost now of playing with Google Apps is ?10 for the domain registration. I customarily create domains and sometimes forget about them once I have tested a particular point. I frequently register domains with names such as www.test14052010.com As Gustav will probably agree, Google Apps is an incredible solution for free, the email facilities alone are great and for small businesses that was to pay just $10 per year for their domain registration, this is a great way to have full cloud email, and full website facilities backed up by Google. How to make money from it? Well, there are a few ways 1) I usually create the sites for free for people and openly tell them it is only 15 - 30 minutes work. Sometimes they throw me ?50 or ?100 which is nice pocket money when it comes. They they manage the site from there. 2) Sometimes when people have no desire to manage the site at all, I set a small fee to do the whole lot for them, but I always tell them inadvance they can do it themselves if they wish. I still only create four or five pages sites and I KISS. 3) As expected when you give away time for free as I have done with google apps, they then come back a month or more later asking for a database system to be built, and this is where I make my real money. In summary: As a free tool, Google apps really fills a need in the market. If we charge ?500 per site we take away the neatness of the the free solution. So I like to leave it as a free solution and charge down the line or one the site for the service I provide. I have also ran some "Build your own website" courses for a small local organisation where I insist that they will have a site up after two tough days. Because I do them for free, I do one or two per month, and because I do so many, I am not very fast at creating the site. To be honest, it does not really make me money, but I love to see people with a website running in the cloud for just the $10 is takes to register a domain. Is that any help? thanks Mark On 14 May 2010 00:28, Michael Maddison wrote: > Cant find a trial option and I'm not sure I should use my real domain to > try it out? > How much flexibility do you have with styles/laying out the pages? > 15 minutes??? I'll go broke :-( > > Cheers > > Michael > > > Hello Michael, > > I have set up about 100 sites now with Google apps, I can do them in > approx > 15 minutes if I have the content. > > It is free and you get the benefit of corporate quality email as well. > > Remember you need to select the Standard Edition as opposed to the > Premium > Edition. > > It has a list / table style template page which works well. > > Google Gadgets work really great also, especially the maps and you tube > integration > > HTH, > > Mark > > > On 13 May 2010 07:59, Gustav Brock wrote: > > > Hi Michael > > > > Or Google Apps: > > > > http://www.google.com/apps/intl/en/business/sites.html > > > > /gustav > > > > > > >>> michael at ddisolutions.com.au 13-05-2010 01:39 >>> > > Hi Guys, > > > > > > > > Just looking for some feedback. > > > > I've been asked to quote on a small website for a cattle stud. > > > > It's not a complex site but the user has asked for the ability to > > add/update beast stud info. He says he needs to do this once a year. > > > > I've used DNN before but it seems like overkill for this spec. > > > > Adding/removing maybe 10 entries a year. > > > > > > > > Any thoughts/recommendations? > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > > > Michael M > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2870 - Release Date: 05/13/10 > 04:26:00 > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2870 - Release Date: 05/14/10 04:26:00 From Johncliviger at aol.com Sat May 15 13:41:16 2010 From: Johncliviger at aol.com (Johncliviger at aol.com) Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 14:41:16 EDT Subject: [dba-VB] Moving controls at runtime Message-ID: <34d99.5d67fb2.392044cc@aol.com> Cheers William, I've seen it, I'll come back in a days or so. regards john cliviger From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Sat May 15 15:08:59 2010 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 16:08:59 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Moving controls at runtime In-Reply-To: <34d99.5d67fb2.392044cc@aol.com> References: <34d99.5d67fb2.392044cc@aol.com> Message-ID: John ...I failed to note that you are working in VB.net ...I get dba-VB and AccessD in the same in box and just assumed you were working in Access William -------------------------------------------------- From: Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2010 2:41 PM To: Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Moving controls at runtime > Cheers William, I've seen it, I'll come back in a days or so. > > regards > > john cliviger > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From marklbreen at gmail.com Mon May 17 07:11:19 2010 From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 13:11:19 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Web project advice In-Reply-To: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B59ED@ddi-01.DDI.local> References: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B59E1@ddi-01.DDI.local> <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B59ED@ddi-01.DDI.local> Message-ID: Hello Michael, I have been using powerDNN for DNN hosting and find them to be good. And they have SQL 2008 which is great as many still run SQL 2005. Do you do much with DNN? Mark On 15 May 2010 07:37, Michael Maddison wrote: > Hi Mark, > > Very interesting. > > I think I'll offer 3 choices... > 1. Static site maintained at hourly rate. > 2. Google option, setup at hourly rate that he can take over if he > chooses. > 3. DNN site, setup for fixed fee that he can take control of. > > Cheers > > Michael > > Hello Michael, > > You have two choices when you create a google apps site > > 1) use a previously created domain name that is not really currently being > used for anything else > 2) Allow Google and their domain registration partners (Go Daddy and Enum) > to create a .com domain for you for $10 > > I usually prefer option 1 because it allows me to seperate out the > management of the domain name and the domain hosting (the google bit). > However the slight complication with option 1 is that you have to create > the C Records and the MX Records yourself. If you have not done this > previously, it can seem daunting, although in reality it is not difficult > and there are loads of instructions out there. > > In Option 2 Google will do ahead and open a Go Daddy / Enum account for > you, > pay the 10 USD and then they will set the C Names and MX Records all > automagically. This works a treat and is very slick. However, if you do > not currently have a google account and if that Google account does not > currently have payment facilities set up, you will have to do that as part > of the process. This can take the shine off the slickness, but once it is > done, option 2 is slick. > > So, assuming you have chosen Option 1 or 2, the total cost now of playing > with Google Apps is ?10 for the domain registration. I customarily create > domains and sometimes forget about them once I have tested a particular > point. I frequently register domains with names such as > www.test14052010.com > > As Gustav will probably agree, Google Apps is an incredible solution for > free, the email facilities alone are great and for small businesses that > was > to pay just $10 per year for their domain registration, this is a great way > to have full cloud email, and full website facilities backed up by Google. > > > How to make money from it? > > Well, there are a few ways > > 1) I usually create the sites for free for people and openly tell them it > is > only 15 - 30 minutes work. Sometimes they throw me ?50 or ?100 which is > nice pocket money when it comes. They they manage the site from there. > 2) Sometimes when people have no desire to manage the site at all, I set a > small fee to do the whole lot for them, but I always tell them inadvance > they can do it themselves if they wish. I still only create four or five > pages sites and I KISS. > 3) As expected when you give away time for free as I have done with google > apps, they then come back a month or more later asking for a database > system > to be built, and this is where I make my real money. > > > In summary: As a free tool, Google apps really fills a need in the market. > If we charge ?500 per site we take away the neatness of the the free > solution. So I like to leave it as a free solution and charge down the > line > or one the site for the service I provide. > > I have also ran some "Build your own website" courses for a small local > organisation where I insist that they will have a site up after two tough > days. Because I do them for free, I do one or two per month, and because I > do so many, I am not very fast at creating the site. > > To be honest, it does not really make me money, but I love to see people > with a website running in the cloud for just the $10 is takes to register a > domain. > > Is that any help? > > thanks > > Mark > > > > > On 14 May 2010 00:28, Michael Maddison > wrote: > > > Cant find a trial option and I'm not sure I should use my real domain to > > try it out? > > How much flexibility do you have with styles/laying out the pages? > > 15 minutes??? I'll go broke :-( > > > > Cheers > > > > Michael > > > > > > Hello Michael, > > > > I have set up about 100 sites now with Google apps, I can do them in > > approx > > 15 minutes if I have the content. > > > > It is free and you get the benefit of corporate quality email as well. > > > > Remember you need to select the Standard Edition as opposed to the > > Premium > > Edition. > > > > It has a list / table style template page which works well. > > > > Google Gadgets work really great also, especially the maps and you tube > > integration > > > > HTH, > > > > Mark > > > > > > On 13 May 2010 07:59, Gustav Brock wrote: > > > > > Hi Michael > > > > > > Or Google Apps: > > > > > > http://www.google.com/apps/intl/en/business/sites.html > > > > > > /gustav > > > > > > > > > >>> michael at ddisolutions.com.au 13-05-2010 01:39 >>> > > > Hi Guys, > > > > > > > > > > > > Just looking for some feedback. > > > > > > I've been asked to quote on a small website for a cattle stud. > > > > > > It's not a complex site but the user has asked for the ability to > > > add/update beast stud info. He says he needs to do this once a year. > > > > > > I've used DNN before but it seems like overkill for this spec. > > > > > > Adding/removing maybe 10 entries a year. > > > > > > > > > > > > Any thoughts/recommendations? > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > > > > > > > Michael M > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > dba-VB mailing list > > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > dba-VB mailing list > > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2870 - Release Date: 05/13/10 > > 04:26:00 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2870 - Release Date: 05/14/10 > 04:26:00 > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 17 08:18:52 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 09:18:52 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Web project advice In-Reply-To: References: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B59E1@ddi-01.DDI.local> <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B59ED@ddi-01.DDI.local> Message-ID: <4BF1423C.50806@colbyconsulting.com> I have just moved to PowerDNN as well. Because I am so new there I have no comment yet, other than their servers are FAST and RELIABLE. My old hosting company had at a half hour every couple of days downtime, whereas PowerDNN does not. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Mark Breen wrote: > Hello Michael, > > I have been using powerDNN for DNN hosting and find them to be good. And > they have SQL 2008 which is great as many still run SQL 2005. > > Do you do much with DNN? > > Mark From Johncliviger at aol.com Tue May 18 03:57:33 2010 From: Johncliviger at aol.com (Johncliviger at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 04:57:33 EDT Subject: [dba-VB] Moving controls at runtime Message-ID: <4ea38.7dc5a47.3923b07d@aol.com> Hi William No problem! I work with both. I've never had the need to move controls in Access but now I've seen this little gem of yours it's given me an idea for a db enhancement. I'll come back to you later. Thanks for the assistance regards john cliviger From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue May 18 08:36:06 2010 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 15:36:06 +0200 Subject: [dba-VB] MAPS: Microsoft Action Pack Subscription Development and Design Benefits Message-ID: Hi all As of May 24. the development tools - most importantly Visual Studio 2010 Professional - is now part of a separate package dedicated developers: Microsoft Action Pack Development and Design Benefits https://partner.microsoft.com/global/program/managemembership/40133000 Three MSDN for Microsoft Action Pack Development and Design subscriptions (licensed per user): Microsoft Visual Studio 2010 Professional Microsoft Expression Web The latest version of the Windows and Windows Server operating systems, and Microsoft SQL Server for development and testing You still have to pass some "test" every second year: https://partner.microsoft.com/global/40132997 /gustav >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 18-01-2008 09:10 >>> Hi all Well, this is on schedule. Today an envelope arrived including these cd-roms: Microsoft Visual Studio 2008 Standard Edition Microsoft Expression Studio and a DVD: Custom Web Development Jumpstart and Windows Live Partner Resources Kit Also, I received 2 GB of ram for my laptop. Do we have a match? /gustav >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 04-12-2007 18:06:22 >>> Hi all Received this today: Our records indicate .. that you are eligible to order the Microsoft Web Solutions Toolkit. You will automatically be shipped the Web Solutions Toolkit in January 2008. /gustav >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 10-10-2007 10:09:07 >>> Hi all We (my employer and I) don't want to spend money on the "MS exam circus" as the ROI is zero. Thus, our official Small Business Specialist status will be lost (and our clients don't care as they hardly knew that anyway). No big deal. However, that status have the additional benefit that combined with the Action Pack Subscription (where the ROI is huge) you are offered Visual Studio Standard 2005 for free. So no SB partner => no free VS which is bad now that VS2008 is close. But a new free add-on to the Action Pack is now announced which could be of interest for those of you not having Visual Studio yet or have felt the limitations of the free Express editions, a "special edition toolkit" for Web Solution Providers: https://partner.microsoft.com/webresourcekit It includes Microsoft Visual Studio Standard 2008 and Expression Studio. The estimated ship date for the kit is January 2008. One of the steps to obtain the kit is to: Successfully complete one of three free online courses and the associated assessment with a score of 70 percent or higher .. These seems to have a duration from 0,5 to 1,5 hours, so you have to pay by spending some of your valuable time! /gustav From marklbreen at gmail.com Wed May 19 04:02:30 2010 From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen) Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 10:02:30 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Microsoft Bizspark - Was MAPS: Microsoft Action Pack.... Message-ID: Hello All, Sorry for changing the subject line, but it is a slightly different subject. Have you all heard of Microsoft Bizspark ? When I heard of it I thought that it was too good to be true. My Brother - in - Law signed up to it. I eventually submitted a request myself and voila, I was accepted and I now have three years of full MSDN access and have to pay $100 when I leave in three years time. Read the requirements carefully, and talk to a local partner for advice so as to optimize your application. As I type I have office 2010 installed on my machine and VS2010 waiting to be installed! AFAICS, this program trumps everything that MS has to offer - its virtually free and once you are accepted it lasts three years. Good Luck, Mark On 18 May 2010 16:25, Rocky Smolin wrote: > I see it now. Too early I guess. Missed it. Thanks. > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos > Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 7:56 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] MAPS: Microsoft Action Pack > SubscriptionDevelopmentand Design Benefits > > You don't have access to google? ;-) > > A search on "microsoft action pack subscription cost" > > and the first link listed..... > https://partner.microsoft.com/40016455 > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > The Microsoft Action Pack Subscription download-only version today costs > $299 plus tax, per year. If you would also like to receive physical media, > the price is $498 plus tax, per year. If you opt in for physical media in > the middle of your annual subscription period, the additional cost will be > assessed on a prorated basis. > Starting May 24, 2010, we will provide enhanced benefits to Action Pack > Solution Provider. The download-only version will cost $329 plus tax, per > year. If you would also like to receive physical media, the new price will > be $429 plus tax, per year. > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > GK > > On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 9:17 AM, Rocky Smolin > wrote: > > Gustav: > > > > I looked at the site but couldn't find a price. Do you know how much > > the Action Pack is now? I took a test a while back to re-enroll but > > never got the Pack. > > > > TIA > > > > Rocky > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav > > Brock > > Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 6:36 AM > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com; dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: [AccessD] MAPS: Microsoft Action Pack Subscription > > Developmentand Design Benefits > > > > Hi all > > > > As of May 24. the development tools - most importantly Visual Studio > > 2010 Professional - is now part of a separate package dedicated > developers: > > > > Microsoft Action Pack Development and Design Benefits > > https://partner.microsoft.com/global/program/managemembership/40133000 > > > > Three MSDN for Microsoft Action Pack Development and Design > > subscriptions (licensed per user): > > Microsoft Visual Studio 2010 Professional > > Microsoft Expression Web > > The latest version of the Windows and Windows Server operating > > systems, and Microsoft SQL Server for development and testing > > > > You still have to pass some "test" every second year: > > https://partner.microsoft.com/global/40132997 > > > > /gustav > > > > > >>>> Gustav at cactus.dk 18-01-2008 09:10 >>> > > Hi all > > > > Well, this is on schedule. Today an envelope arrived including these > > cd-roms: > > > > Microsoft Visual Studio 2008 Standard Edition > > Microsoft Expression Studio > > > > and a DVD: > > > > Custom Web Development Jumpstart > > and Windows Live Partner Resources Kit > > > > Also, I received 2 GB of ram for my laptop. Do we have a match? > > > > /gustav > > > >>>> Gustav at cactus.dk 04-12-2007 18:06:22 >>> > > Hi all > > > > Received this today: > > > > Our records indicate .. that you are eligible to order the Microsoft > > Web Solutions Toolkit. > > You will automatically be shipped the Web Solutions Toolkit in January > 2008. > > > > > > /gustav > > > > > >>>> Gustav at cactus.dk 10-10-2007 10:09:07 >>> > > Hi all > > > > We (my employer and I) don't want to spend money on the "MS exam > > circus" as the ROI is zero. Thus, our official Small Business > > Specialist status will be lost (and our clients don't care as they > > hardly knew that anyway). No big deal. > > > > However, that status have the additional benefit that combined with > > the Action Pack Subscription (where the ROI is huge) you are offered > > Visual Studio Standard 2005 for free. So no SB partner => no free VS > > which is bad now that VS2008 is close. > > > > But a new free add-on to the Action Pack is now announced which could > > be of interest for those of you not having Visual Studio yet or have > > felt the limitations of the free Express editions, a "special edition > > toolkit" for Web Solution Providers: > > > > https://partner.microsoft.com/webresourcekit > > > > It includes Microsoft Visual Studio Standard 2008 and Expression Studio. > > The estimated ship date for the kit is January 2008. > > > > One of the steps to obtain the kit is to: > > > > Successfully complete one of three free online courses and the > > associated assessment with a score of 70 percent or higher .. > > > > These seems to have a duration from 0,5 to 1,5 hours, so you have to > > pay by spending some of your valuable time! > > > > /gustav > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > Gary Kjos > garykjos at gmail.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Wed May 19 09:54:47 2010 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 07:54:47 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Parallelism In-Reply-To: References: <34FFB67A32A64A85A1D61422E34D40CE@creativesystemdesigns.com> <73FC6395D2CA47639932C5A5B5204FEE@creativesystemdesigns.com> <3E23E4865861413788D4FD433E981005@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4A52241149474D76AA93A21F31C31BDA@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi All: A couple of nights ago, I went to a series of lectures given by a fellow named Tiberiu Covaci, Swedish owner of a company called Multi-Core and he is now doing a tour as a trainer for Microsoft. (His next lecture stop will be in New Orleans.) His training lecture was on Parallelism. The first lecture covered the basic concepts of computers and their new multi-core design, a design made necessary as single core computers ran into the physical wall as of 2005. He then went on to describe the attempts by developers to utilize these new multi-core systems. It has been a slow process as you can imagine. The rudimentary attempts of threading and hyper-threading were far from successful. First a single thread will consume up to 200 cycles just to get substantiated and its deployment still requires the central CPU and to spawn hundreds of threads, in a pool and then there was the issues of synchronizing the process results. Even the best developed multi-threaded applications, like MS SQL 2005 could over-load a computer when challenged by a heavy duty task. MS even went so far as to apply a system lock when performing resource heavy jobs... that means all other functionality on the server would cease... no multi-tasking, until the job was completed... even then sometimes a process would freeze up a server. (We have all heard of that exact situation from a number of our DBA members.) Our lecturer had designed a couple of short programs to showed how multi-threading was implemented and then demonstrated how these apps when over-loaded would crash or lock out the system. He used a Quick-sort, demo while splitting it into multiple pieces, multi-threading it and slowly increasing the sort data showed a 30 percent gain per thread and a 70 percent gain per core (maximum gain) but it also showed virtually not performance loss as the data increased (10 to 100 million records) until the process locked up the CPU. We watched the system progress via the Task Manger's CPU display. Lecture two; enter Parallelism. This process has being developed on the latest versions of Java and .Net frame work (4 or greater). He demonstrated two new core features/objects Parallel and Task. Using Parallelism requires a bit to decompose a problem into its components. He used an example of a recipe where a number of steps was required from initial preparation, to the cooking and to the table. The program which ended calculating the time was initially designed in a standard C# routine. The app was then recoded using Parallel running tasks. Each task can run independently, but wait for a process to be completed if required by scheduling, monitoring a semaphore, event, state and/or wait loops. We also covered how to handle synchronization, data sharing and how to avoid deadlocks. By using pararllelism the meal was completed in half the time... It showed how 6 people could do a job faster than one... now that's obvious but maybe not so obvious with a computer application. The most telling observation was when viewing the Task Manger's CPU display. No matter how heavy the requirements that were imposed on the system, the CPU demand remained very low and flat and each core showed an even distribution of utilization. I was totally impressed. Now I know how such super databases as Cassandra, using Java Parallelism works. My suggestion to all those of you using MS SQL 2005 or less; "Bail out quick and get you hands on the latest MS SQL... there will be no comparison in performance." A couple of recommended books on the subject are: "Patterns of Parallel Processing" and "Concurrent Programming on Windows" The latest .Net has all these features built in...just ready to use. Jim From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Wed May 19 16:08:02 2010 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 01:08:02 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Parallelism In-Reply-To: <4A52241149474D76AA93A21F31C31BDA@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <34FFB67A32A64A85A1D61422E34D40CE@creativesystemdesigns.com><73FC6395D2CA47639932C5A5B5204FEE@creativesystemdesigns.com><3E23E4865861413788D4FD433E981005@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4A52241149474D76AA93A21F31C31BDA@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <000a01caf797$5f4ffb40$6501a8c0@nant> Hi Jim -- Yes, multi-threaded apps development is a very interesting and useful stuff: I do actively use multi-thereading in my customers' real life 24x7x365 .NET applications, but I still have a lot to learn/to do (and that learning by doing promise to last forever :)) - the only thing I can say for sure now is that multi-threading development is at least a matter of magnitude more complicated and time consuming than a "mere" conventional single-threaded apps development. Hopefully the new MS technologies - .NET Framework, C# 4.0 and PLINQ will help to lower this complexity a bit(?)... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 6:55 PM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'; 'Discussion concerning MS SQL Server'; dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] Parallelism Hi All: A couple of nights ago, I went to a series of lectures given by a fellow named Tiberiu Covaci, Swedish owner of a company called Multi-Core and he is now doing a tour as a trainer for Microsoft. (His next lecture stop will be in New Orleans.) His training lecture was on Parallelism. The first lecture covered the basic concepts of computers and their new multi-core design, a design made necessary as single core computers ran into the physical wall as of 2005. He then went on to describe the attempts by developers to utilize these new multi-core systems. It has been a slow process as you can imagine. The rudimentary attempts of threading and hyper-threading were far from successful. First a single thread will consume up to 200 cycles just to get substantiated and its deployment still requires the central CPU and to spawn hundreds of threads, in a pool and then there was the issues of synchronizing the process results. Even the best developed multi-threaded applications, like MS SQL 2005 could over-load a computer when challenged by a heavy duty task. MS even went so far as to apply a system lock when performing resource heavy jobs... that means all other functionality on the server would cease... no multi-tasking, until the job was completed... even then sometimes a process would freeze up a server. (We have all heard of that exact situation from a number of our DBA members.) Our lecturer had designed a couple of short programs to showed how multi-threading was implemented and then demonstrated how these apps when over-loaded would crash or lock out the system. He used a Quick-sort, demo while splitting it into multiple pieces, multi-threading it and slowly increasing the sort data showed a 30 percent gain per thread and a 70 percent gain per core (maximum gain) but it also showed virtually not performance loss as the data increased (10 to 100 million records) until the process locked up the CPU. We watched the system progress via the Task Manger's CPU display. Lecture two; enter Parallelism. This process has being developed on the latest versions of Java and .Net frame work (4 or greater). He demonstrated two new core features/objects Parallel and Task. Using Parallelism requires a bit to decompose a problem into its components. He used an example of a recipe where a number of steps was required from initial preparation, to the cooking and to the table. The program which ended calculating the time was initially designed in a standard C# routine. The app was then recoded using Parallel running tasks. Each task can run independently, but wait for a process to be completed if required by scheduling, monitoring a semaphore, event, state and/or wait loops. We also covered how to handle synchronization, data sharing and how to avoid deadlocks. By using pararllelism the meal was completed in half the time... It showed how 6 people could do a job faster than one... now that's obvious but maybe not so obvious with a computer application. The most telling observation was when viewing the Task Manger's CPU display. No matter how heavy the requirements that were imposed on the system, the CPU demand remained very low and flat and each core showed an even distribution of utilization. I was totally impressed. Now I know how such super databases as Cassandra, using Java Parallelism works. My suggestion to all those of you using MS SQL 2005 or less; "Bail out quick and get you hands on the latest MS SQL... there will be no comparison in performance." A couple of recommended books on the subject are: "Patterns of Parallel Processing" and "Concurrent Programming on Windows" The latest .Net has all these features built in...just ready to use. Jim _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed May 19 16:49:37 2010 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 14:49:37 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Parallelism In-Reply-To: <000a01caf797$5f4ffb40$6501a8c0@nant> References: <34FFB67A32A64A85A1D61422E34D40CE@creativesystemdesigns.com> <73FC6395D2CA47639932C5A5B5204FEE@creativesystemdesigns.com> <3E23E4865861413788D4FD433E981005@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4A52241149474D76AA93A21F31C31BDA@creativesystemdesigns.com> <000a01caf797$5f4ffb40$6501a8c0@nant> Message-ID: <1C9DD9C7D00C4033867EC6E149EEC34C@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Shamil: Please note that the lecturer gave a very strict line of difference between multi-threaded applications and the new Parallelism... they are very different in coding, deployment and performance. It now appears that the preparation of coding will now take twice as long but it appears to be the only way to be able to get full performance from our new multi-cored computers. I understand that some Linux systems manage the Parallelism within their kernels so a new application may not see as great as performance advantage as on a Windows OS... but some List members may have far greater insight, on this subject, than I do. I had previously sent an email to Tiberiu Covaci asking for some clarification on the points and differences and as soon as I hear a reply, I will share that information. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 2:08 PM To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.' Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Parallelism Hi Jim -- Yes, multi-threaded apps development is a very interesting and useful stuff: I do actively use multi-thereading in my customers' real life 24x7x365 .NET applications, but I still have a lot to learn/to do (and that learning by doing promise to last forever :)) - the only thing I can say for sure now is that multi-threading development is at least a matter of magnitude more complicated and time consuming than a "mere" conventional single-threaded apps development. Hopefully the new MS technologies - .NET Framework, C# 4.0 and PLINQ will help to lower this complexity a bit(?)... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 6:55 PM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'; 'Discussion concerning MS SQL Server'; dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] Parallelism Hi All: A couple of nights ago, I went to a series of lectures given by a fellow named Tiberiu Covaci, Swedish owner of a company called Multi-Core and he is now doing a tour as a trainer for Microsoft. (His next lecture stop will be in New Orleans.) His training lecture was on Parallelism. The first lecture covered the basic concepts of computers and their new multi-core design, a design made necessary as single core computers ran into the physical wall as of 2005. He then went on to describe the attempts by developers to utilize these new multi-core systems. It has been a slow process as you can imagine. The rudimentary attempts of threading and hyper-threading were far from successful. First a single thread will consume up to 200 cycles just to get substantiated and its deployment still requires the central CPU and to spawn hundreds of threads, in a pool and then there was the issues of synchronizing the process results. Even the best developed multi-threaded applications, like MS SQL 2005 could over-load a computer when challenged by a heavy duty task. MS even went so far as to apply a system lock when performing resource heavy jobs... that means all other functionality on the server would cease... no multi-tasking, until the job was completed... even then sometimes a process would freeze up a server. (We have all heard of that exact situation from a number of our DBA members.) Our lecturer had designed a couple of short programs to showed how multi-threading was implemented and then demonstrated how these apps when over-loaded would crash or lock out the system. He used a Quick-sort, demo while splitting it into multiple pieces, multi-threading it and slowly increasing the sort data showed a 30 percent gain per thread and a 70 percent gain per core (maximum gain) but it also showed virtually not performance loss as the data increased (10 to 100 million records) until the process locked up the CPU. We watched the system progress via the Task Manger's CPU display. Lecture two; enter Parallelism. This process has being developed on the latest versions of Java and .Net frame work (4 or greater). He demonstrated two new core features/objects Parallel and Task. Using Parallelism requires a bit to decompose a problem into its components. He used an example of a recipe where a number of steps was required from initial preparation, to the cooking and to the table. The program which ended calculating the time was initially designed in a standard C# routine. The app was then recoded using Parallel running tasks. Each task can run independently, but wait for a process to be completed if required by scheduling, monitoring a semaphore, event, state and/or wait loops. We also covered how to handle synchronization, data sharing and how to avoid deadlocks. By using pararllelism the meal was completed in half the time... It showed how 6 people could do a job faster than one... now that's obvious but maybe not so obvious with a computer application. The most telling observation was when viewing the Task Manger's CPU display. No matter how heavy the requirements that were imposed on the system, the CPU demand remained very low and flat and each core showed an even distribution of utilization. I was totally impressed. Now I know how such super databases as Cassandra, using Java Parallelism works. My suggestion to all those of you using MS SQL 2005 or less; "Bail out quick and get you hands on the latest MS SQL... there will be no comparison in performance." A couple of recommended books on the subject are: "Patterns of Parallel Processing" and "Concurrent Programming on Windows" The latest .Net has all these features built in...just ready to use. Jim _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Sat May 22 14:43:46 2010 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Sat, 22 May 2010 23:43:46 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Parallelism In-Reply-To: <1C9DD9C7D00C4033867EC6E149EEC34C@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <34FFB67A32A64A85A1D61422E34D40CE@creativesystemdesigns.com><73FC6395D2CA47639932C5A5B5204FEE@creativesystemdesigns.com><3E23E4865861413788D4FD433E981005@creativesystemdesigns.com><4A52241149474D76AA93A21F31C31BDA@creativesystemdesigns.com><000a01caf797$5f4ffb40$6501a8c0@nant> <1C9DD9C7D00C4033867EC6E149EEC34C@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <114E8EB89D7E4498B14A6E84FA27EF84@nant> Hi Jim -- Thank you for your remark. Yes, I suppose I do realize the difference between multi-threading and Parallelism. And I suppose I do use both here in my everyday development: - Parallelism can be implemented by using multi-threading (long running threads usually performing conceptually different tasks) but it can be also implemented by running independent processes... - Multi-threading is usually treated as multiple short-living threads/-sub-processes running within one process, and often performing conceptually the same tasks, at least most of the threads of a multi-threaded application... Both Parallelism and Multi-threading can be implemented on one CPU provided independent processes or threads have some waiting/idle time - waiting for some external events to happen/tasks to be processed - that concept exists since IBM 360 MFT OS times (early 60-ies?)... Both Parallelism and Multi-Threading are getting mainstream nowadays when one process, which can't be "paralleled" on one CPU system because it has no "external events" to wait, can now be split into several sub-processes/threads to be scheduled to run on several CPUs/cores available within one computer - that's new for mass market PCs, but this concept of Parallelism/multi-threading is rather old coming from supercomputers - CRAY and CDC there, and Elbrus here (also 60ies AFAIKR)... Please correct me if I'm wrong. What's so new with "the new Parallelism" you mentioned? What am I missing? - Let's define this discussion thread context: I do not mention "neural networks" and "clouds" here - we are talking within context of one physical unit having several CPUs/cores and controlled by one operation system instance, correct?... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 1:50 AM To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.' Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Parallelism Hi Shamil: Please note that the lecturer gave a very strict line of difference between multi-threaded applications and the new Parallelism... they are very different in coding, deployment and performance. It now appears that the preparation of coding will now take twice as long but it appears to be the only way to be able to get full performance from our new multi-cored computers. I understand that some Linux systems manage the Parallelism within their kernels so a new application may not see as great as performance advantage as on a Windows OS... but some List members may have far greater insight, on this subject, than I do. I had previously sent an email to Tiberiu Covaci asking for some clarification on the points and differences and as soon as I hear a reply, I will share that information. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 2:08 PM To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.' Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Parallelism Hi Jim -- Yes, multi-threaded apps development is a very interesting and useful stuff: I do actively use multi-thereading in my customers' real life 24x7x365 .NET applications, but I still have a lot to learn/to do (and that learning by doing promise to last forever :)) - the only thing I can say for sure now is that multi-threading development is at least a matter of magnitude more complicated and time consuming than a "mere" conventional single-threaded apps development. Hopefully the new MS technologies - .NET Framework, C# 4.0 and PLINQ will help to lower this complexity a bit(?)... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 6:55 PM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'; 'Discussion concerning MS SQL Server'; dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] Parallelism Hi All: A couple of nights ago, I went to a series of lectures given by a fellow named Tiberiu Covaci, Swedish owner of a company called Multi-Core and he is now doing a tour as a trainer for Microsoft. (His next lecture stop will be in New Orleans.) His training lecture was on Parallelism. The first lecture covered the basic concepts of computers and their new multi-core design, a design made necessary as single core computers ran into the physical wall as of 2005. He then went on to describe the attempts by developers to utilize these new multi-core systems. It has been a slow process as you can imagine. The rudimentary attempts of threading and hyper-threading were far from successful. First a single thread will consume up to 200 cycles just to get substantiated and its deployment still requires the central CPU and to spawn hundreds of threads, in a pool and then there was the issues of synchronizing the process results. Even the best developed multi-threaded applications, like MS SQL 2005 could over-load a computer when challenged by a heavy duty task. MS even went so far as to apply a system lock when performing resource heavy jobs... that means all other functionality on the server would cease... no multi-tasking, until the job was completed... even then sometimes a process would freeze up a server. (We have all heard of that exact situation from a number of our DBA members.) Our lecturer had designed a couple of short programs to showed how multi-threading was implemented and then demonstrated how these apps when over-loaded would crash or lock out the system. He used a Quick-sort, demo while splitting it into multiple pieces, multi-threading it and slowly increasing the sort data showed a 30 percent gain per thread and a 70 percent gain per core (maximum gain) but it also showed virtually not performance loss as the data increased (10 to 100 million records) until the process locked up the CPU. We watched the system progress via the Task Manger's CPU display. Lecture two; enter Parallelism. This process has being developed on the latest versions of Java and .Net frame work (4 or greater). He demonstrated two new core features/objects Parallel and Task. Using Parallelism requires a bit to decompose a problem into its components. He used an example of a recipe where a number of steps was required from initial preparation, to the cooking and to the table. The program which ended calculating the time was initially designed in a standard C# routine. The app was then recoded using Parallel running tasks. Each task can run independently, but wait for a process to be completed if required by scheduling, monitoring a semaphore, event, state and/or wait loops. We also covered how to handle synchronization, data sharing and how to avoid deadlocks. By using pararllelism the meal was completed in half the time... It showed how 6 people could do a job faster than one... now that's obvious but maybe not so obvious with a computer application. The most telling observation was when viewing the Task Manger's CPU display. No matter how heavy the requirements that were imposed on the system, the CPU demand remained very low and flat and each core showed an even distribution of utilization. I was totally impressed. Now I know how such super databases as Cassandra, using Java Parallelism works. My suggestion to all those of you using MS SQL 2005 or less; "Bail out quick and get you hands on the latest MS SQL... there will be no comparison in performance." A couple of recommended books on the subject are: "Patterns of Parallel Processing" and "Concurrent Programming on Windows" The latest .Net has all these features built in...just ready to use. Jim _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sat May 22 17:04:15 2010 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 22 May 2010 15:04:15 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Parallelism In-Reply-To: <114E8EB89D7E4498B14A6E84FA27EF84@nant> References: <34FFB67A32A64A85A1D61422E34D40CE@creativesystemdesigns.com> <73FC6395D2CA47639932C5A5B5204FEE@creativesystemdesigns.com> <3E23E4865861413788D4FD433E981005@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4A52241149474D76AA93A21F31C31BDA@creativesystemdesigns.com> <000a01caf797$5f4ffb40$6501a8c0@nant> <1C9DD9C7D00C4033867EC6E149EEC34C@creativesystemdesigns.com> <114E8EB89D7E4498B14A6E84FA27EF84@nant> Message-ID: <7B2D6C891C63473CA06F71513D77F828@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Shamil: Since the first Unix system added the command 'Fork' there has been parallel processing... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fork_(operating_system) Yes, it could have very well been the 60's Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 12:44 PM To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.' Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Parallelism Hi Jim -- Thank you for your remark. Yes, I suppose I do realize the difference between multi-threading and Parallelism. And I suppose I do use both here in my everyday development: - Parallelism can be implemented by using multi-threading (long running threads usually performing conceptually different tasks) but it can be also implemented by running independent processes... - Multi-threading is usually treated as multiple short-living threads/-sub-processes running within one process, and often performing conceptually the same tasks, at least most of the threads of a multi-threaded application... Both Parallelism and Multi-threading can be implemented on one CPU provided independent processes or threads have some waiting/idle time - waiting for some external events to happen/tasks to be processed - that concept exists since IBM 360 MFT OS times (early 60-ies?)... Both Parallelism and Multi-Threading are getting mainstream nowadays when one process, which can't be "paralleled" on one CPU system because it has no "external events" to wait, can now be split into several sub-processes/threads to be scheduled to run on several CPUs/cores available within one computer - that's new for mass market PCs, but this concept of Parallelism/multi-threading is rather old coming from supercomputers - CRAY and CDC there, and Elbrus here (also 60ies AFAIKR)... Please correct me if I'm wrong. What's so new with "the new Parallelism" you mentioned? What am I missing? - Let's define this discussion thread context: I do not mention "neural networks" and "clouds" here - we are talking within context of one physical unit having several CPUs/cores and controlled by one operation system instance, correct?... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 1:50 AM To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.' Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Parallelism Hi Shamil: Please note that the lecturer gave a very strict line of difference between multi-threaded applications and the new Parallelism... they are very different in coding, deployment and performance. It now appears that the preparation of coding will now take twice as long but it appears to be the only way to be able to get full performance from our new multi-cored computers. I understand that some Linux systems manage the Parallelism within their kernels so a new application may not see as great as performance advantage as on a Windows OS... but some List members may have far greater insight, on this subject, than I do. I had previously sent an email to Tiberiu Covaci asking for some clarification on the points and differences and as soon as I hear a reply, I will share that information. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 2:08 PM To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.' Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Parallelism Hi Jim -- Yes, multi-threaded apps development is a very interesting and useful stuff: I do actively use multi-thereading in my customers' real life 24x7x365 .NET applications, but I still have a lot to learn/to do (and that learning by doing promise to last forever :)) - the only thing I can say for sure now is that multi-threading development is at least a matter of magnitude more complicated and time consuming than a "mere" conventional single-threaded apps development. Hopefully the new MS technologies - .NET Framework, C# 4.0 and PLINQ will help to lower this complexity a bit(?)... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 6:55 PM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'; 'Discussion concerning MS SQL Server'; dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] Parallelism Hi All: A couple of nights ago, I went to a series of lectures given by a fellow named Tiberiu Covaci, Swedish owner of a company called Multi-Core and he is now doing a tour as a trainer for Microsoft. (His next lecture stop will be in New Orleans.) His training lecture was on Parallelism. The first lecture covered the basic concepts of computers and their new multi-core design, a design made necessary as single core computers ran into the physical wall as of 2005. He then went on to describe the attempts by developers to utilize these new multi-core systems. It has been a slow process as you can imagine. The rudimentary attempts of threading and hyper-threading were far from successful. First a single thread will consume up to 200 cycles just to get substantiated and its deployment still requires the central CPU and to spawn hundreds of threads, in a pool and then there was the issues of synchronizing the process results. Even the best developed multi-threaded applications, like MS SQL 2005 could over-load a computer when challenged by a heavy duty task. MS even went so far as to apply a system lock when performing resource heavy jobs... that means all other functionality on the server would cease... no multi-tasking, until the job was completed... even then sometimes a process would freeze up a server. (We have all heard of that exact situation from a number of our DBA members.) Our lecturer had designed a couple of short programs to showed how multi-threading was implemented and then demonstrated how these apps when over-loaded would crash or lock out the system. He used a Quick-sort, demo while splitting it into multiple pieces, multi-threading it and slowly increasing the sort data showed a 30 percent gain per thread and a 70 percent gain per core (maximum gain) but it also showed virtually not performance loss as the data increased (10 to 100 million records) until the process locked up the CPU. We watched the system progress via the Task Manger's CPU display. Lecture two; enter Parallelism. This process has being developed on the latest versions of Java and .Net frame work (4 or greater). He demonstrated two new core features/objects Parallel and Task. Using Parallelism requires a bit to decompose a problem into its components. He used an example of a recipe where a number of steps was required from initial preparation, to the cooking and to the table. The program which ended calculating the time was initially designed in a standard C# routine. The app was then recoded using Parallel running tasks. Each task can run independently, but wait for a process to be completed if required by scheduling, monitoring a semaphore, event, state and/or wait loops. We also covered how to handle synchronization, data sharing and how to avoid deadlocks. By using pararllelism the meal was completed in half the time... It showed how 6 people could do a job faster than one... now that's obvious but maybe not so obvious with a computer application. The most telling observation was when viewing the Task Manger's CPU display. No matter how heavy the requirements that were imposed on the system, the CPU demand remained very low and flat and each core showed an even distribution of utilization. I was totally impressed. Now I know how such super databases as Cassandra, using Java Parallelism works. My suggestion to all those of you using MS SQL 2005 or less; "Bail out quick and get you hands on the latest MS SQL... there will be no comparison in performance." A couple of recommended books on the subject are: "Patterns of Parallel Processing" and "Concurrent Programming on Windows" The latest .Net has all these features built in...just ready to use. Jim _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Sat May 22 18:28:55 2010 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Sun, 23 May 2010 03:28:55 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Parallelism In-Reply-To: <7B2D6C891C63473CA06F71513D77F828@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <34FFB67A32A64A85A1D61422E34D40CE@creativesystemdesigns.com><73FC6395D2CA47639932C5A5B5204FEE@creativesystemdesigns.com><3E23E4865861413788D4FD433E981005@creativesystemdesigns.com><4A52241149474D76AA93A21F31C31BDA@creativesystemdesigns.com><000a01caf797$5f4ffb40$6501a8c0@nant><1C9DD9C7D00C4033867EC6E149EEC34C@creativesystemdesigns.com><114E8EB89D7E4498B14A6E84FA27EF84@nant> <7B2D6C891C63473CA06F71513D77F828@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Hi Jim -- Yes, "fork", but before that was IBM360, which has had special hardware and operation system software to handle Input/Output channels, multiplexing console input etc. - and when that special hardware has been working for input/output CPU was idle, and could have been used by other application processes - AFAIKR even PL/1 has had some function calls to start and handle long running "independent" threads within a running process/task, but starting an independent task that wasn't possible on application programs level (?) for IBM360 MFT and MVT OSes, and in mid-1970-ies, the next IBM OS, MVS, has got multi-processor systems support they say: well that all was very expensive that times of course and not broadly available as nowadays multi-core mass market computer systems but all nowadays Parallelism and Multi-Threading concepts were mainly developed during that "ancient" times: and then came MS and has been keeping us in "preemptive multitasking" "straitjacket" for almost 20 years - was that good, bad, necessary and inevitable MS-driven "moderation and control" for technology mass market to mature?... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 2:04 AM To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.' Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Parallelism Hi Shamil: Since the first Unix system added the command 'Fork' there has been parallel processing... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fork_(operating_system) Yes, it could have very well been the 60's Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 12:44 PM To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.' Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Parallelism Hi Jim -- Thank you for your remark. Yes, I suppose I do realize the difference between multi-threading and Parallelism. And I suppose I do use both here in my everyday development: - Parallelism can be implemented by using multi-threading (long running threads usually performing conceptually different tasks) but it can be also implemented by running independent processes... - Multi-threading is usually treated as multiple short-living threads/-sub-processes running within one process, and often performing conceptually the same tasks, at least most of the threads of a multi-threaded application... Both Parallelism and Multi-threading can be implemented on one CPU provided independent processes or threads have some waiting/idle time - waiting for some external events to happen/tasks to be processed - that concept exists since IBM 360 MFT OS times (early 60-ies?)... Both Parallelism and Multi-Threading are getting mainstream nowadays when one process, which can't be "paralleled" on one CPU system because it has no "external events" to wait, can now be split into several sub-processes/threads to be scheduled to run on several CPUs/cores available within one computer - that's new for mass market PCs, but this concept of Parallelism/multi-threading is rather old coming from supercomputers - CRAY and CDC there, and Elbrus here (also 60ies AFAIKR)... Please correct me if I'm wrong. What's so new with "the new Parallelism" you mentioned? What am I missing? - Let's define this discussion thread context: I do not mention "neural networks" and "clouds" here - we are talking within context of one physical unit having several CPUs/cores and controlled by one operation system instance, correct?... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 1:50 AM To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.' Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Parallelism Hi Shamil: Please note that the lecturer gave a very strict line of difference between multi-threaded applications and the new Parallelism... they are very different in coding, deployment and performance. It now appears that the preparation of coding will now take twice as long but it appears to be the only way to be able to get full performance from our new multi-cored computers. I understand that some Linux systems manage the Parallelism within their kernels so a new application may not see as great as performance advantage as on a Windows OS... but some List members may have far greater insight, on this subject, than I do. I had previously sent an email to Tiberiu Covaci asking for some clarification on the points and differences and as soon as I hear a reply, I will share that information. Jim <<< snip >>> From accessd at shaw.ca Sun May 23 12:00:34 2010 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sun, 23 May 2010 10:00:34 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Parallelism In-Reply-To: References: <34FFB67A32A64A85A1D61422E34D40CE@creativesystemdesigns.com> <73FC6395D2CA47639932C5A5B5204FEE@creativesystemdesigns.com> <3E23E4865861413788D4FD433E981005@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4A52241149474D76AA93A21F31C31BDA@creativesystemdesigns.com> <000a01caf797$5f4ffb40$6501a8c0@nant> <1C9DD9C7D00C4033867EC6E149EEC34C@creativesystemdesigns.com> <114E8EB89D7E4498B14A6E84FA27EF84@nant> <7B2D6C891C63473CA06F71513D77F828@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: The single-user, single-tasking system detuned from CPM and Unix called DOS... the one with the backward slash: "\"? I worked on that mini IBM 360, many years ago, along with the VAX-11/780 and PDP-11/70 (the whole Vax line is gone now but their virtual OS (the first production version of Unix and subsequently ATT UNIX and derivitives BSD and SCO), directory interface and structure was a fore-runner of all our current systems.) Linux systems in the interim have been our poor man's multi-tasking and multi-user system since 1994-1995. Even Mac have moved to a freeBSD core. Microsoft's desktop computers can be made multi-user with a few good hacks but that is not officially supported. There is so many different threading models but to my understanding real Parallelism (which appears to function as a load balancer, across CPU, threading model) can not be truly implemented on any computer but one with multi-cores and those systems, for the average user, have only been in the market since 2005-2006. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 4:29 PM To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.' Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Parallelism Hi Jim -- Yes, "fork", but before that was IBM360, which has had special hardware and operation system software to handle Input/Output channels, multiplexing console input etc. - and when that special hardware has been working for input/output CPU was idle, and could have been used by other application processes - AFAIKR even PL/1 has had some function calls to start and handle long running "independent" threads within a running process/task, but starting an independent task that wasn't possible on application programs level (?) for IBM360 MFT and MVT OSes, and in mid-1970-ies, the next IBM OS, MVS, has got multi-processor systems support they say: well that all was very expensive that times of course and not broadly available as nowadays multi-core mass market computer systems but all nowadays Parallelism and Multi-Threading concepts were mainly developed during that "ancient" times: and then came MS and has been keeping us in "preemptive multitasking" "straitjacket" for almost 20 years - was that good, bad, necessary and inevitable MS-driven "moderation and control" for technology mass market to mature?... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 2:04 AM To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.' Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Parallelism Hi Shamil: Since the first Unix system added the command 'Fork' there has been parallel processing... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fork_(operating_system) Yes, it could have very well been the 60's Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 12:44 PM To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.' Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Parallelism Hi Jim -- Thank you for your remark. Yes, I suppose I do realize the difference between multi-threading and Parallelism. And I suppose I do use both here in my everyday development: - Parallelism can be implemented by using multi-threading (long running threads usually performing conceptually different tasks) but it can be also implemented by running independent processes... - Multi-threading is usually treated as multiple short-living threads/-sub-processes running within one process, and often performing conceptually the same tasks, at least most of the threads of a multi-threaded application... Both Parallelism and Multi-threading can be implemented on one CPU provided independent processes or threads have some waiting/idle time - waiting for some external events to happen/tasks to be processed - that concept exists since IBM 360 MFT OS times (early 60-ies?)... Both Parallelism and Multi-Threading are getting mainstream nowadays when one process, which can't be "paralleled" on one CPU system because it has no "external events" to wait, can now be split into several sub-processes/threads to be scheduled to run on several CPUs/cores available within one computer - that's new for mass market PCs, but this concept of Parallelism/multi-threading is rather old coming from supercomputers - CRAY and CDC there, and Elbrus here (also 60ies AFAIKR)... Please correct me if I'm wrong. What's so new with "the new Parallelism" you mentioned? What am I missing? - Let's define this discussion thread context: I do not mention "neural networks" and "clouds" here - we are talking within context of one physical unit having several CPUs/cores and controlled by one operation system instance, correct?... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 1:50 AM To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.' Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Parallelism Hi Shamil: Please note that the lecturer gave a very strict line of difference between multi-threaded applications and the new Parallelism... they are very different in coding, deployment and performance. It now appears that the preparation of coding will now take twice as long but it appears to be the only way to be able to get full performance from our new multi-cored computers. I understand that some Linux systems manage the Parallelism within their kernels so a new application may not see as great as performance advantage as on a Windows OS... but some List members may have far greater insight, on this subject, than I do. I had previously sent an email to Tiberiu Covaci asking for some clarification on the points and differences and as soon as I hear a reply, I will share that information. Jim <<< snip >>> _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri May 7 12:55:27 2010 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 07 May 2010 19:55:27 +0200 Subject: [dba-VB] Cassandra (was: A couple of great articles on latest and greatest) Message-ID: Hi Jim It is not easy to get hold on this monster. Here are some useful links I found: WTF is a SuperColumn? An Intro to the Cassandra Data Model: http://arin.me/blog/wtf-is-a-supercolumn-cassandra-data-model Cassandra Jump Start For The Windows Developer: http://www.coderjournal.com/2010/03/cassandra-jump-start-for-the-windows-developer/ Thrift Wiki. Basic requirements for win32: http://wiki.apache.org/thrift/ThriftInstallationWin32 Nick Berardi's managedfusion / fluentcassandra: FluentCassandra is a .NET library for accessing Cassandra, which wraps the Thrift client library and provides a more fluent POCO interface for accessing and querying the objects in Cassandra. http://github.com/managedfusion/fluentcassandra/blob/master/README.mkd#readme Nick Berardi's C# CasandraDemo: https://code.google.com/p/coderjournal/source/browse/trunk/Posts/2010/03/CassandraDemo.cs So much to read and learn ... /gustav >>> accessd at shaw.ca 07-05-2010 16:25 >>> For a brief moment there Terabyte was the size ultimate but that point passed quickly and the computer world went on to Pentabyte; well that point of ultimate has now again been surpassed as we have Zettabytes. http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2010/may/03/humanity-digital-output-zet tabyte Some latest information from some who have been experimenting with the new super database called Cassandra. Notice through the performances trials the CPU utilization remains flat! The team pushed the product to see where better utilization could be achieved and noted setting caching would help performance... But keep in mind this DBs performance is so far beyond our standard SQLs. http://jamesgolick.com/2010/4/4/two-weeks-with-cassandra.html An aside: It will be a while before the hard drive bottle-neck is really fully resolved. Right now splitting a data store across numerous drives, all indexed and cashed is the only way to lessen the performance pain. That is why the new breed of distributive databases are so fast because they manage the hardware layer so well. Our current crop of standard SQLs just leave the hardware to manage it's self. Jim _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Johncliviger at aol.com Sun May 9 13:23:30 2010 From: Johncliviger at aol.com (Johncliviger at aol.com) Date: Sun, 9 May 2010 14:23:30 EDT Subject: [dba-VB] Moving controls at runtime Message-ID: <14dc4.69e4f4a5.391857a2@aol.com> Hi Guys, I need to permit users at runtime to move controls around a Form. And I've done that my using the Mouse Up, Move and Down events and it even works. Great! But I now need to save/persist those new XY location numbers. After much scratching of the old head I concluded that I should store them in Mysettings. The question is ..is that the best way to save the new settings and some pointers on how to code it will be most useful. A Sunday afternoon has passed without much progress and the dog is ignoring me due to the lack of a walk. TIA john cliviger O yes. I using vb.net 2005 From accessd at shaw.ca Mon May 10 17:03:30 2010 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 15:03:30 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] New unstoppable malware on the horizon In-Reply-To: References: <386C9B6DF71A4523858967C65AD50030@HAL9005> Message-ID: <50437C7E0164474A8DB4BEE7D111F0C6@creativesystemdesigns.com> Now that most of our new computers are multi-cored and capable of running processes in parallel, it appears, unfortunately that most of our software has not taken advance of this new capability or do most programmers even know how to. Here in lies the danger. Our best virus protection software is just designed for single core processes. A company has pointed out the weakness to our situation and how to take advantage of it. It works like the old bait and switch routine. While the current protection software is busy validating some innocuous file or software the malware is busy pushing a zombie through via a parallel process. Very slick: http://www.matousec.com/info/articles/khobe-8.0-earthquake-for-windows-deskt op-security-software.php Now that the knowledge of how to build unstoppable malware is out there how long do we have to wait until our protection software is ready to stop the inevitable flood? Jim From michael at ddisolutions.com.au Wed May 12 18:39:06 2010 From: michael at ddisolutions.com.au (Michael Maddison) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 09:39:06 +1000 Subject: [dba-VB] Web project advice Message-ID: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B59C8@ddi-01.DDI.local> Hi Guys, Just looking for some feedback. I've been asked to quote on a small website for a cattle stud. It's not a complex site but the user has asked for the ability to add/update beast stud info. He says he needs to do this once a year. I've used DNN before but it seems like overkill for this spec. Adding/removing maybe 10 entries a year. Any thoughts/recommendations? Cheers Michael M From ha at phulse.com Wed May 12 18:47:42 2010 From: ha at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 00:47:42 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Web project advice In-Reply-To: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B59C8@ddi-01.DDI.local> References: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B59C8@ddi-01.DDI.local> Message-ID: For something really lightweight and basic, that requires just occasional updates, Wordpress, despite being a blogging platform, makes a very simple to set up and effective cms. I personally use it in that context. Hans-Christian Software Developer, UK ----------------------------------------------------------------- tel: +44 (0)782 894 5456 e-mail: hans.andersen at phulse.com www: nokenode.com ----------------------------------------------------------------- Unique Gifts, Collectables, Artwork ----------------------------------------------------------------- Come one Come all to www.corinnajasmine.com ----------------------------------------------------------------- On 13 May 2010 00:39, Michael Maddison wrote: > Hi Guys, > > > > Just looking for some feedback. > > I've been asked to quote on a small website for a cattle stud. > > It's not a complex site but the user has asked for the ability to > add/update beast stud info. He says he needs to do this once a year. > > I've used DNN before but it seems like overkill for this spec. > > Adding/removing maybe 10 entries a year. > > > > Any thoughts/recommendations? > > > > Cheers > > > > Michael M > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From michael at ddisolutions.com.au Wed May 12 19:03:37 2010 From: michael at ddisolutions.com.au (Michael Maddison) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 10:03:37 +1000 Subject: [dba-VB] Web project advice References: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B59C8@ddi-01.DDI.local> Message-ID: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B59C9@ddi-01.DDI.local> Wow, Never would have thought of that :-) I'll check it out. Cheers Michael -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian Andersen Sent: Thursday, 13 May 2010 9:48 AM To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues. Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Web project advice For something really lightweight and basic, that requires just occasional updates, Wordpress, despite being a blogging platform, makes a very simple to set up and effective cms. I personally use it in that context. Hans-Christian Software Developer, UK ----------------------------------------------------------------- tel: +44 (0)782 894 5456 e-mail: hans.andersen at phulse.com www: nokenode.com ----------------------------------------------------------------- Unique Gifts, Collectables, Artwork ----------------------------------------------------------------- Come one Come all to www.corinnajasmine.com ----------------------------------------------------------------- On 13 May 2010 00:39, Michael Maddison wrote: > Hi Guys, > > > > Just looking for some feedback. > > I've been asked to quote on a small website for a cattle stud. > > It's not a complex site but the user has asked for the ability to > add/update beast stud info. He says he needs to do this once a year. > > I've used DNN before but it seems like overkill for this spec. > > Adding/removing maybe 10 entries a year. > > > > Any thoughts/recommendations? > > > > Cheers > > > > Michael M > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2860 - Release Date: 05/13/10 04:26:00 From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Wed May 12 21:17:23 2010 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 22:17:23 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Web project advice In-Reply-To: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B59C8@ddi-01.DDI.local> References: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B59C8@ddi-01.DDI.local> Message-ID: <0AAC78A97456476EBDEFAE52668BC2B1@jislaptopdev> ...why reinvent the wheel ...just find a stud farm web template ...quick look says there are plenty available. William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Michael Maddison" Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 7:39 PM To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Subject: [dba-VB] Web project advice > Hi Guys, > > > > Just looking for some feedback. > > I've been asked to quote on a small website for a cattle stud. > > It's not a complex site but the user has asked for the ability to > add/update beast stud info. He says he needs to do this once a year. > > I've used DNN before but it seems like overkill for this spec. > > Adding/removing maybe 10 entries a year. > > > > Any thoughts/recommendations? > > > > Cheers > > > > Michael M > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu May 13 01:59:21 2010 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 08:59:21 +0200 Subject: [dba-VB] Web project advice Message-ID: Hi Michael Or Google Apps: http://www.google.com/apps/intl/en/business/sites.html /gustav >>> michael at ddisolutions.com.au 13-05-2010 01:39 >>> Hi Guys, Just looking for some feedback. I've been asked to quote on a small website for a cattle stud. It's not a complex site but the user has asked for the ability to add/update beast stud info. He says he needs to do this once a year. I've used DNN before but it seems like overkill for this spec. Adding/removing maybe 10 entries a year. Any thoughts/recommendations? Cheers Michael M _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Thu May 13 03:02:37 2010 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 12:02:37 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Web project advice In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001e01caf272$a7f0cc50$6501a8c0@nant> <<< Google Apps: >>> Hi Gustav -- Do you know do they (Google Apps) plan to have somehow introduced Mercurial source code control/repositories support? Thank you. --Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 10:59 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Web project advice Hi Michael Or Google Apps: http://www.google.com/apps/intl/en/business/sites.html /gustav >>> michael at ddisolutions.com.au 13-05-2010 01:39 >>> Hi Guys, Just looking for some feedback. I've been asked to quote on a small website for a cattle stud. It's not a complex site but the user has asked for the ability to add/update beast stud info. He says he needs to do this once a year. I've used DNN before but it seems like overkill for this spec. Adding/removing maybe 10 entries a year. Any thoughts/recommendations? Cheers Michael M From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu May 13 05:20:21 2010 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 12:20:21 +0200 Subject: [dba-VB] Web project advice Message-ID: Hi Shamil No, I have no idea. I haven't coded anything with Google tools. /gustav >>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 13-05-2010 10:02 >>> <<< Google Apps: >>> Hi Gustav -- Do you know do they (Google Apps) plan to have somehow introduced Mercurial source code control/repositories support? Thank you. --Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 10:59 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Web project advice Hi Michael Or Google Apps: http://www.google.com/apps/intl/en/business/sites.html /gustav >>> michael at ddisolutions.com.au 13-05-2010 01:39 >>> Hi Guys, Just looking for some feedback. I've been asked to quote on a small website for a cattle stud. It's not a complex site but the user has asked for the ability to add/update beast stud info. He says he needs to do this once a year. I've used DNN before but it seems like overkill for this spec. Adding/removing maybe 10 entries a year. Any thoughts/recommendations? Cheers Michael M From marklbreen at gmail.com Thu May 13 05:19:35 2010 From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 11:19:35 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Web project advice In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Michael, I have set up about 100 sites now with Google apps, I can do them in approx 15 minutes if I have the content. It is free and you get the benefit of corporate quality email as well. Remember you need to select the Standard Edition as opposed to the Premium Edition. It has a list / table style template page which works well. Google Gadgets work really great also, especially the maps and you tube integration HTH, Mark On 13 May 2010 07:59, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Michael > > Or Google Apps: > > http://www.google.com/apps/intl/en/business/sites.html > > /gustav > > > >>> michael at ddisolutions.com.au 13-05-2010 01:39 >>> > Hi Guys, > > > > Just looking for some feedback. > > I've been asked to quote on a small website for a cattle stud. > > It's not a complex site but the user has asked for the ability to > add/update beast stud info. He says he needs to do this once a year. > > I've used DNN before but it seems like overkill for this spec. > > Adding/removing maybe 10 entries a year. > > > > Any thoughts/recommendations? > > > > Cheers > > > > Michael M > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Thu May 13 09:34:53 2010 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 09:34:53 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] Moving controls at runtime In-Reply-To: <14dc4.69e4f4a5.391857a2@aol.com> References: <14dc4.69e4f4a5.391857a2@aol.com> Message-ID: John, I have two methods for tracking this sort of info in the main application I develop on (I'm not into developing much anymore). The application I am referring to is a networked app, that runs on every desktop at my company, so it is possible that the same user would use the app on different machines. So I determine if I want the 'feature' to be remembered by user, or by desktop. By user, I store the data in a table in the database, retrieved when the user logs in. By machine, I store the data in a text file that is loaded and saved when the app starts and stops. I don't have any controls moving around, but I do allow many forms to be resized, and so on the OnLoad event of each form I have a 'FormOpen Me' statement that runs a function with a reference to the form as an argument, which lets the function retrieve the size and position values based on the form name, from the text file data, and then apply that information to the form. On the Unload event, I have 'FormClose Me' which then records the values for the form to be saved in the text file. The app I refer too is a VB 6 app. I use a class module called 'LocalSettings' to store this data. Here's the .ini file that is on my desktop right now for this application: RAdminPath=C:\Program Files (x86)\Radmin Viewer 3\Radmin.exe frmPhoneList-Top=1875 frmPhoneList-Left=1875 frmPhoneList-Width=6780 frmPhoneList-Height=7005 When the app loads, it's populating a collection with the items on the left of the equal sign as the keys and the items on the right as the values. The 'LocalSettings' class simply retrieves, stores, and records those values without caring what they are. So on the FormOpen method, I simply have the following: Me.Top=MyLocalSettings.LocalProperty(Me.Name & "-Top") And so on. Obviously I have a line to determine that there is recorded info for the form, before it moves or resizes anything (the first time a form would be opened, there would be no info for it). The data I store in the database, so it would transfer from machine to machine, is actually less simple. Screen sizes and positions aren't things I would want globally stored because different machines can have different resolutions and monitor sizes. Drew -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Johncliviger at aol.com Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 1:24 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] Moving controls at runtime Hi Guys, I need to permit users at runtime to move controls around a Form. And I've done that my using the Mouse Up, Move and Down events and it even works. Great! But I now need to save/persist those new XY location numbers. After much scratching of the old head I concluded that I should store them in Mysettings. The question is ..is that the best way to save the new settings and some pointers on how to code it will be most useful. A Sunday afternoon has passed without much progress and the dog is ignoring me due to the lack of a walk. TIA john cliviger O yes. I using vb.net 2005 _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From marklbreen at gmail.com Thu May 13 10:02:27 2010 From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 16:02:27 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] OT - Good Karma Wristlets Message-ID: Hello Friends My 11 year old daughter named Caitlin has her own little Google Apps website, www.caitlinbreen.com. She has recently been platting bracelets with some wool and has been giving them to friends in school. She calls them Good Karma Wristlets. The idea being she gives them for free and you receive them for free, but when you get one, you have to pass on the Good Karma. On her site, you can see that she has included a photo of some of the Wristlets, they are not too complex as you can see, but her and her friends are enjoying them. If you have a daughter / son / friend / wife / husband that would like one, please drop Caitlin a line and she will send you a Wristlet. Please feel free to pass on this email to anyone you think appropriate. I hope it is OK to include this on the list. As most of the list members are outside Ireland, it will be exciting for her to see requests from "abroad". You do not need mention that her Dad drew the site to your attention :). Some of you know me- and might even vouch for me - and know that I am on AccessD since 1997 so I am not seeking to sell you anything here, of course. Thanks a lot, Mark Breen Ireland From garykjos at gmail.com Thu May 13 10:15:08 2010 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 10:15:08 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] [dba-Tech] OT - Good Karma Wristlets In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Mark, No problem with the posting. Sounds like fun. GK On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 10:02 AM, Mark Breen wrote: > Hello Friends > > My 11 year old daughter named Caitlin has her own little Google Apps > website, www.caitlinbreen.com. > > She has recently been platting bracelets with some wool and has been giving > them to friends in school. ?She calls them Good Karma Wristlets. ?The idea > being she gives them for free and you receive them for free, but when you > get one, you have to pass on the Good Karma. ?On her site, you can see that > she has included a photo of some of the Wristlets, they are not too complex > as you can see, but her and her friends are enjoying them. > > If you have a daughter / son / friend / wife / husband that would like one, > please drop Caitlin a line and she will send you a Wristlet. > > Please feel free to pass on this email to anyone you think appropriate. > > I hope it is OK to include this on the list. ?As most of the list members > are outside Ireland, it will be exciting for her to see requests from > "abroad". ?You do not need mention that her Dad drew the site to your > attention :). > > Some of you know me- and might even vouch for me - and know that I am on > AccessD since 1997 so I am not seeking to sell you anything here, of course. > > Thanks a lot, > > Mark Breen > Ireland > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From marklbreen at gmail.com Thu May 13 13:39:13 2010 From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 19:39:13 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] OT - Good Karma Wristlets In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello All, just FYI, I messed up the email, so if you wrote to Caitlin within the last few hours, you probably got a bounce, it is fixed now, sorry about that, thanks again, Mark On 13 May 2010 16:02, Mark Breen wrote: > Hello Friends > > My 11 year old daughter named Caitlin has her own little Google Apps > website, www.caitlinbreen.com. > > She has recently been platting bracelets with some wool and has been giving > them to friends in school. She calls them Good Karma Wristlets. The idea > being she gives them for free and you receive them for free, but when you > get one, you have to pass on the Good Karma. On her site, you can see that > she has included a photo of some of the Wristlets, they are not too complex > as you can see, but her and her friends are enjoying them. > > If you have a daughter / son / friend / wife / husband that would like one, > please drop Caitlin a line and she will send you a Wristlet. > > Please feel free to pass on this email to anyone you think appropriate. > > I hope it is OK to include this on the list. As most of the list members > are outside Ireland, it will be exciting for her to see requests from > "abroad". You do not need mention that her Dad drew the site to your > attention :). > > Some of you know me- and might even vouch for me - and know that I am on > AccessD since 1997 so I am not seeking to sell you anything here, of course. > > Thanks a lot, > > Mark Breen > Ireland > From Johncliviger at aol.com Thu May 13 13:57:09 2010 From: Johncliviger at aol.com (Johncliviger at aol.com) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 14:57:09 EDT Subject: [dba-VB] Moving controls at runtime Message-ID: <4f48a.119b406b.391da585@aol.com> Hi Drew Thank you for the info. I've just read it. I need to think it thru. I'll come back. regards john cliviger From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Thu May 13 17:18:01 2010 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 18:18:01 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Moving controls at runtime In-Reply-To: <14dc4.69e4f4a5.391857a2@aol.com> References: <14dc4.69e4f4a5.391857a2@aol.com> Message-ID: John I've sent you an mdb off line that lets users move labels around a form and stores the positions in a table for retrieval ...I played with it as a floor planning solution but ultimately the limits on the number of controls on a single form made it unusable for the app I needed it for ...but it sounds like it might meet your needs ...hth William -------------------------------------------------- From: Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 2:23 PM To: Subject: [dba-VB] Moving controls at runtime > Hi Guys, > > I need to permit users at runtime to move controls around a Form. And I've > done that my using the Mouse Up, Move and Down events and it even works. > Great! But I now need to save/persist those new XY location numbers. > After > much scratching of the old head I concluded that I should store them in > Mysettings. > > The question is ..is that the best way to save the new settings and some > pointers on how to code it will be most useful. A Sunday afternoon has > passed without much progress and the dog is ignoring me due to the lack of > a > walk. > > TIA > john cliviger > > O yes. I using vb.net 2005 > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From michael at ddisolutions.com.au Thu May 13 18:22:41 2010 From: michael at ddisolutions.com.au (Michael Maddison) Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 09:22:41 +1000 Subject: [dba-VB] Web project advice References: Message-ID: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B59E0@ddi-01.DDI.local> I'm curious about how you go about charging for using a platform like google apps or wordpress? How do you 'sell' the concept? I should probably go and try one out I guess :-) Cheers Michael Hello Michael, I have set up about 100 sites now with Google apps, I can do them in approx 15 minutes if I have the content. It is free and you get the benefit of corporate quality email as well. Remember you need to select the Standard Edition as opposed to the Premium Edition. It has a list / table style template page which works well. Google Gadgets work really great also, especially the maps and you tube integration HTH, Mark On 13 May 2010 07:59, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Michael > > Or Google Apps: > > http://www.google.com/apps/intl/en/business/sites.html > > /gustav > > > >>> michael at ddisolutions.com.au 13-05-2010 01:39 >>> > Hi Guys, > > > > Just looking for some feedback. > > I've been asked to quote on a small website for a cattle stud. > > It's not a complex site but the user has asked for the ability to > add/update beast stud info. He says he needs to do this once a year. > > I've used DNN before but it seems like overkill for this spec. > > Adding/removing maybe 10 entries a year. > > > > Any thoughts/recommendations? > > > > Cheers > > > > Michael M > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2870 - Release Date: 05/13/10 04:26:00 From michael at ddisolutions.com.au Thu May 13 18:28:36 2010 From: michael at ddisolutions.com.au (Michael Maddison) Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 09:28:36 +1000 Subject: [dba-VB] Web project advice References: Message-ID: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B59E1@ddi-01.DDI.local> Cant find a trial option and I'm not sure I should use my real domain to try it out? How much flexibility do you have with styles/laying out the pages? 15 minutes??? I'll go broke :-( Cheers Michael Hello Michael, I have set up about 100 sites now with Google apps, I can do them in approx 15 minutes if I have the content. It is free and you get the benefit of corporate quality email as well. Remember you need to select the Standard Edition as opposed to the Premium Edition. It has a list / table style template page which works well. Google Gadgets work really great also, especially the maps and you tube integration HTH, Mark On 13 May 2010 07:59, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Michael > > Or Google Apps: > > http://www.google.com/apps/intl/en/business/sites.html > > /gustav > > > >>> michael at ddisolutions.com.au 13-05-2010 01:39 >>> > Hi Guys, > > > > Just looking for some feedback. > > I've been asked to quote on a small website for a cattle stud. > > It's not a complex site but the user has asked for the ability to > add/update beast stud info. He says he needs to do this once a year. > > I've used DNN before but it seems like overkill for this spec. > > Adding/removing maybe 10 entries a year. > > > > Any thoughts/recommendations? > > > > Cheers > > > > Michael M > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2870 - Release Date: 05/13/10 04:26:00 From marklbreen at gmail.com Fri May 14 03:13:51 2010 From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen) Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 09:13:51 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Web project advice In-Reply-To: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B59E1@ddi-01.DDI.local> References: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B59E1@ddi-01.DDI.local> Message-ID: Hello Michael, You have two choices when you create a google apps site 1) use a previously created domain name that is not really currently being used for anything else 2) Allow Google and their domain registration partners (Go Daddy and Enum) to create a .com domain for you for $10 I usually prefer option 1 because it allows me to seperate out the management of the domain name and the domain hosting (the google bit). However the slight complication with option 1 is that you have to create the C Records and the MX Records yourself. If you have not done this previously, it can seem daunting, although in reality it is not difficult and there are loads of instructions out there. In Option 2 Google will do ahead and open a Go Daddy / Enum account for you, pay the 10 USD and then they will set the C Names and MX Records all automagically. This works a treat and is very slick. However, if you do not currently have a google account and if that Google account does not currently have payment facilities set up, you will have to do that as part of the process. This can take the shine off the slickness, but once it is done, option 2 is slick. So, assuming you have chosen Option 1 or 2, the total cost now of playing with Google Apps is ?10 for the domain registration. I customarily create domains and sometimes forget about them once I have tested a particular point. I frequently register domains with names such as www.test14052010.com As Gustav will probably agree, Google Apps is an incredible solution for free, the email facilities alone are great and for small businesses that was to pay just $10 per year for their domain registration, this is a great way to have full cloud email, and full website facilities backed up by Google. How to make money from it? Well, there are a few ways 1) I usually create the sites for free for people and openly tell them it is only 15 - 30 minutes work. Sometimes they throw me ?50 or ?100 which is nice pocket money when it comes. They they manage the site from there. 2) Sometimes when people have no desire to manage the site at all, I set a small fee to do the whole lot for them, but I always tell them inadvance they can do it themselves if they wish. I still only create four or five pages sites and I KISS. 3) As expected when you give away time for free as I have done with google apps, they then come back a month or more later asking for a database system to be built, and this is where I make my real money. In summary: As a free tool, Google apps really fills a need in the market. If we charge ?500 per site we take away the neatness of the the free solution. So I like to leave it as a free solution and charge down the line or one the site for the service I provide. I have also ran some "Build your own website" courses for a small local organisation where I insist that they will have a site up after two tough days. Because I do them for free, I do one or two per month, and because I do so many, I am not very fast at creating the site. To be honest, it does not really make me money, but I love to see people with a website running in the cloud for just the $10 is takes to register a domain. Is that any help? thanks Mark On 14 May 2010 00:28, Michael Maddison wrote: > Cant find a trial option and I'm not sure I should use my real domain to > try it out? > How much flexibility do you have with styles/laying out the pages? > 15 minutes??? I'll go broke :-( > > Cheers > > Michael > > > Hello Michael, > > I have set up about 100 sites now with Google apps, I can do them in > approx > 15 minutes if I have the content. > > It is free and you get the benefit of corporate quality email as well. > > Remember you need to select the Standard Edition as opposed to the > Premium > Edition. > > It has a list / table style template page which works well. > > Google Gadgets work really great also, especially the maps and you tube > integration > > HTH, > > Mark > > > On 13 May 2010 07:59, Gustav Brock wrote: > > > Hi Michael > > > > Or Google Apps: > > > > http://www.google.com/apps/intl/en/business/sites.html > > > > /gustav > > > > > > >>> michael at ddisolutions.com.au 13-05-2010 01:39 >>> > > Hi Guys, > > > > > > > > Just looking for some feedback. > > > > I've been asked to quote on a small website for a cattle stud. > > > > It's not a complex site but the user has asked for the ability to > > add/update beast stud info. He says he needs to do this once a year. > > > > I've used DNN before but it seems like overkill for this spec. > > > > Adding/removing maybe 10 entries a year. > > > > > > > > Any thoughts/recommendations? > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > > > Michael M > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2870 - Release Date: 05/13/10 > 04:26:00 > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From michael at ddisolutions.com.au Sat May 15 01:37:13 2010 From: michael at ddisolutions.com.au (Michael Maddison) Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 16:37:13 +1000 Subject: [dba-VB] Web project advice References: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B59E1@ddi-01.DDI.local> Message-ID: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B59ED@ddi-01.DDI.local> Hi Mark, Very interesting. I think I'll offer 3 choices... 1. Static site maintained at hourly rate. 2. Google option, setup at hourly rate that he can take over if he chooses. 3. DNN site, setup for fixed fee that he can take control of. Cheers Michael Hello Michael, You have two choices when you create a google apps site 1) use a previously created domain name that is not really currently being used for anything else 2) Allow Google and their domain registration partners (Go Daddy and Enum) to create a .com domain for you for $10 I usually prefer option 1 because it allows me to seperate out the management of the domain name and the domain hosting (the google bit). However the slight complication with option 1 is that you have to create the C Records and the MX Records yourself. If you have not done this previously, it can seem daunting, although in reality it is not difficult and there are loads of instructions out there. In Option 2 Google will do ahead and open a Go Daddy / Enum account for you, pay the 10 USD and then they will set the C Names and MX Records all automagically. This works a treat and is very slick. However, if you do not currently have a google account and if that Google account does not currently have payment facilities set up, you will have to do that as part of the process. This can take the shine off the slickness, but once it is done, option 2 is slick. So, assuming you have chosen Option 1 or 2, the total cost now of playing with Google Apps is ?10 for the domain registration. I customarily create domains and sometimes forget about them once I have tested a particular point. I frequently register domains with names such as www.test14052010.com As Gustav will probably agree, Google Apps is an incredible solution for free, the email facilities alone are great and for small businesses that was to pay just $10 per year for their domain registration, this is a great way to have full cloud email, and full website facilities backed up by Google. How to make money from it? Well, there are a few ways 1) I usually create the sites for free for people and openly tell them it is only 15 - 30 minutes work. Sometimes they throw me ?50 or ?100 which is nice pocket money when it comes. They they manage the site from there. 2) Sometimes when people have no desire to manage the site at all, I set a small fee to do the whole lot for them, but I always tell them inadvance they can do it themselves if they wish. I still only create four or five pages sites and I KISS. 3) As expected when you give away time for free as I have done with google apps, they then come back a month or more later asking for a database system to be built, and this is where I make my real money. In summary: As a free tool, Google apps really fills a need in the market. If we charge ?500 per site we take away the neatness of the the free solution. So I like to leave it as a free solution and charge down the line or one the site for the service I provide. I have also ran some "Build your own website" courses for a small local organisation where I insist that they will have a site up after two tough days. Because I do them for free, I do one or two per month, and because I do so many, I am not very fast at creating the site. To be honest, it does not really make me money, but I love to see people with a website running in the cloud for just the $10 is takes to register a domain. Is that any help? thanks Mark On 14 May 2010 00:28, Michael Maddison wrote: > Cant find a trial option and I'm not sure I should use my real domain to > try it out? > How much flexibility do you have with styles/laying out the pages? > 15 minutes??? I'll go broke :-( > > Cheers > > Michael > > > Hello Michael, > > I have set up about 100 sites now with Google apps, I can do them in > approx > 15 minutes if I have the content. > > It is free and you get the benefit of corporate quality email as well. > > Remember you need to select the Standard Edition as opposed to the > Premium > Edition. > > It has a list / table style template page which works well. > > Google Gadgets work really great also, especially the maps and you tube > integration > > HTH, > > Mark > > > On 13 May 2010 07:59, Gustav Brock wrote: > > > Hi Michael > > > > Or Google Apps: > > > > http://www.google.com/apps/intl/en/business/sites.html > > > > /gustav > > > > > > >>> michael at ddisolutions.com.au 13-05-2010 01:39 >>> > > Hi Guys, > > > > > > > > Just looking for some feedback. > > > > I've been asked to quote on a small website for a cattle stud. > > > > It's not a complex site but the user has asked for the ability to > > add/update beast stud info. He says he needs to do this once a year. > > > > I've used DNN before but it seems like overkill for this spec. > > > > Adding/removing maybe 10 entries a year. > > > > > > > > Any thoughts/recommendations? > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > > > Michael M > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2870 - Release Date: 05/13/10 > 04:26:00 > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2870 - Release Date: 05/14/10 04:26:00 From Johncliviger at aol.com Sat May 15 13:41:16 2010 From: Johncliviger at aol.com (Johncliviger at aol.com) Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 14:41:16 EDT Subject: [dba-VB] Moving controls at runtime Message-ID: <34d99.5d67fb2.392044cc@aol.com> Cheers William, I've seen it, I'll come back in a days or so. regards john cliviger From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Sat May 15 15:08:59 2010 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 16:08:59 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Moving controls at runtime In-Reply-To: <34d99.5d67fb2.392044cc@aol.com> References: <34d99.5d67fb2.392044cc@aol.com> Message-ID: John ...I failed to note that you are working in VB.net ...I get dba-VB and AccessD in the same in box and just assumed you were working in Access William -------------------------------------------------- From: Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2010 2:41 PM To: Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Moving controls at runtime > Cheers William, I've seen it, I'll come back in a days or so. > > regards > > john cliviger > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From marklbreen at gmail.com Mon May 17 07:11:19 2010 From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 13:11:19 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Web project advice In-Reply-To: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B59ED@ddi-01.DDI.local> References: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B59E1@ddi-01.DDI.local> <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B59ED@ddi-01.DDI.local> Message-ID: Hello Michael, I have been using powerDNN for DNN hosting and find them to be good. And they have SQL 2008 which is great as many still run SQL 2005. Do you do much with DNN? Mark On 15 May 2010 07:37, Michael Maddison wrote: > Hi Mark, > > Very interesting. > > I think I'll offer 3 choices... > 1. Static site maintained at hourly rate. > 2. Google option, setup at hourly rate that he can take over if he > chooses. > 3. DNN site, setup for fixed fee that he can take control of. > > Cheers > > Michael > > Hello Michael, > > You have two choices when you create a google apps site > > 1) use a previously created domain name that is not really currently being > used for anything else > 2) Allow Google and their domain registration partners (Go Daddy and Enum) > to create a .com domain for you for $10 > > I usually prefer option 1 because it allows me to seperate out the > management of the domain name and the domain hosting (the google bit). > However the slight complication with option 1 is that you have to create > the C Records and the MX Records yourself. If you have not done this > previously, it can seem daunting, although in reality it is not difficult > and there are loads of instructions out there. > > In Option 2 Google will do ahead and open a Go Daddy / Enum account for > you, > pay the 10 USD and then they will set the C Names and MX Records all > automagically. This works a treat and is very slick. However, if you do > not currently have a google account and if that Google account does not > currently have payment facilities set up, you will have to do that as part > of the process. This can take the shine off the slickness, but once it is > done, option 2 is slick. > > So, assuming you have chosen Option 1 or 2, the total cost now of playing > with Google Apps is ?10 for the domain registration. I customarily create > domains and sometimes forget about them once I have tested a particular > point. I frequently register domains with names such as > www.test14052010.com > > As Gustav will probably agree, Google Apps is an incredible solution for > free, the email facilities alone are great and for small businesses that > was > to pay just $10 per year for their domain registration, this is a great way > to have full cloud email, and full website facilities backed up by Google. > > > How to make money from it? > > Well, there are a few ways > > 1) I usually create the sites for free for people and openly tell them it > is > only 15 - 30 minutes work. Sometimes they throw me ?50 or ?100 which is > nice pocket money when it comes. They they manage the site from there. > 2) Sometimes when people have no desire to manage the site at all, I set a > small fee to do the whole lot for them, but I always tell them inadvance > they can do it themselves if they wish. I still only create four or five > pages sites and I KISS. > 3) As expected when you give away time for free as I have done with google > apps, they then come back a month or more later asking for a database > system > to be built, and this is where I make my real money. > > > In summary: As a free tool, Google apps really fills a need in the market. > If we charge ?500 per site we take away the neatness of the the free > solution. So I like to leave it as a free solution and charge down the > line > or one the site for the service I provide. > > I have also ran some "Build your own website" courses for a small local > organisation where I insist that they will have a site up after two tough > days. Because I do them for free, I do one or two per month, and because I > do so many, I am not very fast at creating the site. > > To be honest, it does not really make me money, but I love to see people > with a website running in the cloud for just the $10 is takes to register a > domain. > > Is that any help? > > thanks > > Mark > > > > > On 14 May 2010 00:28, Michael Maddison > wrote: > > > Cant find a trial option and I'm not sure I should use my real domain to > > try it out? > > How much flexibility do you have with styles/laying out the pages? > > 15 minutes??? I'll go broke :-( > > > > Cheers > > > > Michael > > > > > > Hello Michael, > > > > I have set up about 100 sites now with Google apps, I can do them in > > approx > > 15 minutes if I have the content. > > > > It is free and you get the benefit of corporate quality email as well. > > > > Remember you need to select the Standard Edition as opposed to the > > Premium > > Edition. > > > > It has a list / table style template page which works well. > > > > Google Gadgets work really great also, especially the maps and you tube > > integration > > > > HTH, > > > > Mark > > > > > > On 13 May 2010 07:59, Gustav Brock wrote: > > > > > Hi Michael > > > > > > Or Google Apps: > > > > > > http://www.google.com/apps/intl/en/business/sites.html > > > > > > /gustav > > > > > > > > > >>> michael at ddisolutions.com.au 13-05-2010 01:39 >>> > > > Hi Guys, > > > > > > > > > > > > Just looking for some feedback. > > > > > > I've been asked to quote on a small website for a cattle stud. > > > > > > It's not a complex site but the user has asked for the ability to > > > add/update beast stud info. He says he needs to do this once a year. > > > > > > I've used DNN before but it seems like overkill for this spec. > > > > > > Adding/removing maybe 10 entries a year. > > > > > > > > > > > > Any thoughts/recommendations? > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > > > > > > > Michael M > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > dba-VB mailing list > > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > dba-VB mailing list > > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2870 - Release Date: 05/13/10 > > 04:26:00 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2870 - Release Date: 05/14/10 > 04:26:00 > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 17 08:18:52 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 09:18:52 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Web project advice In-Reply-To: References: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B59E1@ddi-01.DDI.local> <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B59ED@ddi-01.DDI.local> Message-ID: <4BF1423C.50806@colbyconsulting.com> I have just moved to PowerDNN as well. Because I am so new there I have no comment yet, other than their servers are FAST and RELIABLE. My old hosting company had at a half hour every couple of days downtime, whereas PowerDNN does not. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Mark Breen wrote: > Hello Michael, > > I have been using powerDNN for DNN hosting and find them to be good. And > they have SQL 2008 which is great as many still run SQL 2005. > > Do you do much with DNN? > > Mark From Johncliviger at aol.com Tue May 18 03:57:33 2010 From: Johncliviger at aol.com (Johncliviger at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 04:57:33 EDT Subject: [dba-VB] Moving controls at runtime Message-ID: <4ea38.7dc5a47.3923b07d@aol.com> Hi William No problem! I work with both. I've never had the need to move controls in Access but now I've seen this little gem of yours it's given me an idea for a db enhancement. I'll come back to you later. Thanks for the assistance regards john cliviger From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue May 18 08:36:06 2010 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 15:36:06 +0200 Subject: [dba-VB] MAPS: Microsoft Action Pack Subscription Development and Design Benefits Message-ID: Hi all As of May 24. the development tools - most importantly Visual Studio 2010 Professional - is now part of a separate package dedicated developers: Microsoft Action Pack Development and Design Benefits https://partner.microsoft.com/global/program/managemembership/40133000 Three MSDN for Microsoft Action Pack Development and Design subscriptions (licensed per user): Microsoft Visual Studio 2010 Professional Microsoft Expression Web The latest version of the Windows and Windows Server operating systems, and Microsoft SQL Server for development and testing You still have to pass some "test" every second year: https://partner.microsoft.com/global/40132997 /gustav >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 18-01-2008 09:10 >>> Hi all Well, this is on schedule. Today an envelope arrived including these cd-roms: Microsoft Visual Studio 2008 Standard Edition Microsoft Expression Studio and a DVD: Custom Web Development Jumpstart and Windows Live Partner Resources Kit Also, I received 2 GB of ram for my laptop. Do we have a match? /gustav >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 04-12-2007 18:06:22 >>> Hi all Received this today: Our records indicate .. that you are eligible to order the Microsoft Web Solutions Toolkit. You will automatically be shipped the Web Solutions Toolkit in January 2008. /gustav >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 10-10-2007 10:09:07 >>> Hi all We (my employer and I) don't want to spend money on the "MS exam circus" as the ROI is zero. Thus, our official Small Business Specialist status will be lost (and our clients don't care as they hardly knew that anyway). No big deal. However, that status have the additional benefit that combined with the Action Pack Subscription (where the ROI is huge) you are offered Visual Studio Standard 2005 for free. So no SB partner => no free VS which is bad now that VS2008 is close. But a new free add-on to the Action Pack is now announced which could be of interest for those of you not having Visual Studio yet or have felt the limitations of the free Express editions, a "special edition toolkit" for Web Solution Providers: https://partner.microsoft.com/webresourcekit It includes Microsoft Visual Studio Standard 2008 and Expression Studio. The estimated ship date for the kit is January 2008. One of the steps to obtain the kit is to: Successfully complete one of three free online courses and the associated assessment with a score of 70 percent or higher .. These seems to have a duration from 0,5 to 1,5 hours, so you have to pay by spending some of your valuable time! /gustav From marklbreen at gmail.com Wed May 19 04:02:30 2010 From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen) Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 10:02:30 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Microsoft Bizspark - Was MAPS: Microsoft Action Pack.... Message-ID: Hello All, Sorry for changing the subject line, but it is a slightly different subject. Have you all heard of Microsoft Bizspark ? When I heard of it I thought that it was too good to be true. My Brother - in - Law signed up to it. I eventually submitted a request myself and voila, I was accepted and I now have three years of full MSDN access and have to pay $100 when I leave in three years time. Read the requirements carefully, and talk to a local partner for advice so as to optimize your application. As I type I have office 2010 installed on my machine and VS2010 waiting to be installed! AFAICS, this program trumps everything that MS has to offer - its virtually free and once you are accepted it lasts three years. Good Luck, Mark On 18 May 2010 16:25, Rocky Smolin wrote: > I see it now. Too early I guess. Missed it. Thanks. > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos > Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 7:56 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] MAPS: Microsoft Action Pack > SubscriptionDevelopmentand Design Benefits > > You don't have access to google? ;-) > > A search on "microsoft action pack subscription cost" > > and the first link listed..... > https://partner.microsoft.com/40016455 > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > The Microsoft Action Pack Subscription download-only version today costs > $299 plus tax, per year. If you would also like to receive physical media, > the price is $498 plus tax, per year. If you opt in for physical media in > the middle of your annual subscription period, the additional cost will be > assessed on a prorated basis. > Starting May 24, 2010, we will provide enhanced benefits to Action Pack > Solution Provider. The download-only version will cost $329 plus tax, per > year. If you would also like to receive physical media, the new price will > be $429 plus tax, per year. > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > GK > > On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 9:17 AM, Rocky Smolin > wrote: > > Gustav: > > > > I looked at the site but couldn't find a price. Do you know how much > > the Action Pack is now? I took a test a while back to re-enroll but > > never got the Pack. > > > > TIA > > > > Rocky > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav > > Brock > > Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 6:36 AM > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com; dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: [AccessD] MAPS: Microsoft Action Pack Subscription > > Developmentand Design Benefits > > > > Hi all > > > > As of May 24. the development tools - most importantly Visual Studio > > 2010 Professional - is now part of a separate package dedicated > developers: > > > > Microsoft Action Pack Development and Design Benefits > > https://partner.microsoft.com/global/program/managemembership/40133000 > > > > Three MSDN for Microsoft Action Pack Development and Design > > subscriptions (licensed per user): > > Microsoft Visual Studio 2010 Professional > > Microsoft Expression Web > > The latest version of the Windows and Windows Server operating > > systems, and Microsoft SQL Server for development and testing > > > > You still have to pass some "test" every second year: > > https://partner.microsoft.com/global/40132997 > > > > /gustav > > > > > >>>> Gustav at cactus.dk 18-01-2008 09:10 >>> > > Hi all > > > > Well, this is on schedule. Today an envelope arrived including these > > cd-roms: > > > > Microsoft Visual Studio 2008 Standard Edition > > Microsoft Expression Studio > > > > and a DVD: > > > > Custom Web Development Jumpstart > > and Windows Live Partner Resources Kit > > > > Also, I received 2 GB of ram for my laptop. Do we have a match? > > > > /gustav > > > >>>> Gustav at cactus.dk 04-12-2007 18:06:22 >>> > > Hi all > > > > Received this today: > > > > Our records indicate .. that you are eligible to order the Microsoft > > Web Solutions Toolkit. > > You will automatically be shipped the Web Solutions Toolkit in January > 2008. > > > > > > /gustav > > > > > >>>> Gustav at cactus.dk 10-10-2007 10:09:07 >>> > > Hi all > > > > We (my employer and I) don't want to spend money on the "MS exam > > circus" as the ROI is zero. Thus, our official Small Business > > Specialist status will be lost (and our clients don't care as they > > hardly knew that anyway). No big deal. > > > > However, that status have the additional benefit that combined with > > the Action Pack Subscription (where the ROI is huge) you are offered > > Visual Studio Standard 2005 for free. So no SB partner => no free VS > > which is bad now that VS2008 is close. > > > > But a new free add-on to the Action Pack is now announced which could > > be of interest for those of you not having Visual Studio yet or have > > felt the limitations of the free Express editions, a "special edition > > toolkit" for Web Solution Providers: > > > > https://partner.microsoft.com/webresourcekit > > > > It includes Microsoft Visual Studio Standard 2008 and Expression Studio. > > The estimated ship date for the kit is January 2008. > > > > One of the steps to obtain the kit is to: > > > > Successfully complete one of three free online courses and the > > associated assessment with a score of 70 percent or higher .. > > > > These seems to have a duration from 0,5 to 1,5 hours, so you have to > > pay by spending some of your valuable time! > > > > /gustav > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > Gary Kjos > garykjos at gmail.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Wed May 19 09:54:47 2010 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 07:54:47 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Parallelism In-Reply-To: References: <34FFB67A32A64A85A1D61422E34D40CE@creativesystemdesigns.com> <73FC6395D2CA47639932C5A5B5204FEE@creativesystemdesigns.com> <3E23E4865861413788D4FD433E981005@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4A52241149474D76AA93A21F31C31BDA@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi All: A couple of nights ago, I went to a series of lectures given by a fellow named Tiberiu Covaci, Swedish owner of a company called Multi-Core and he is now doing a tour as a trainer for Microsoft. (His next lecture stop will be in New Orleans.) His training lecture was on Parallelism. The first lecture covered the basic concepts of computers and their new multi-core design, a design made necessary as single core computers ran into the physical wall as of 2005. He then went on to describe the attempts by developers to utilize these new multi-core systems. It has been a slow process as you can imagine. The rudimentary attempts of threading and hyper-threading were far from successful. First a single thread will consume up to 200 cycles just to get substantiated and its deployment still requires the central CPU and to spawn hundreds of threads, in a pool and then there was the issues of synchronizing the process results. Even the best developed multi-threaded applications, like MS SQL 2005 could over-load a computer when challenged by a heavy duty task. MS even went so far as to apply a system lock when performing resource heavy jobs... that means all other functionality on the server would cease... no multi-tasking, until the job was completed... even then sometimes a process would freeze up a server. (We have all heard of that exact situation from a number of our DBA members.) Our lecturer had designed a couple of short programs to showed how multi-threading was implemented and then demonstrated how these apps when over-loaded would crash or lock out the system. He used a Quick-sort, demo while splitting it into multiple pieces, multi-threading it and slowly increasing the sort data showed a 30 percent gain per thread and a 70 percent gain per core (maximum gain) but it also showed virtually not performance loss as the data increased (10 to 100 million records) until the process locked up the CPU. We watched the system progress via the Task Manger's CPU display. Lecture two; enter Parallelism. This process has being developed on the latest versions of Java and .Net frame work (4 or greater). He demonstrated two new core features/objects Parallel and Task. Using Parallelism requires a bit to decompose a problem into its components. He used an example of a recipe where a number of steps was required from initial preparation, to the cooking and to the table. The program which ended calculating the time was initially designed in a standard C# routine. The app was then recoded using Parallel running tasks. Each task can run independently, but wait for a process to be completed if required by scheduling, monitoring a semaphore, event, state and/or wait loops. We also covered how to handle synchronization, data sharing and how to avoid deadlocks. By using pararllelism the meal was completed in half the time... It showed how 6 people could do a job faster than one... now that's obvious but maybe not so obvious with a computer application. The most telling observation was when viewing the Task Manger's CPU display. No matter how heavy the requirements that were imposed on the system, the CPU demand remained very low and flat and each core showed an even distribution of utilization. I was totally impressed. Now I know how such super databases as Cassandra, using Java Parallelism works. My suggestion to all those of you using MS SQL 2005 or less; "Bail out quick and get you hands on the latest MS SQL... there will be no comparison in performance." A couple of recommended books on the subject are: "Patterns of Parallel Processing" and "Concurrent Programming on Windows" The latest .Net has all these features built in...just ready to use. Jim From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Wed May 19 16:08:02 2010 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 01:08:02 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Parallelism In-Reply-To: <4A52241149474D76AA93A21F31C31BDA@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <34FFB67A32A64A85A1D61422E34D40CE@creativesystemdesigns.com><73FC6395D2CA47639932C5A5B5204FEE@creativesystemdesigns.com><3E23E4865861413788D4FD433E981005@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4A52241149474D76AA93A21F31C31BDA@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <000a01caf797$5f4ffb40$6501a8c0@nant> Hi Jim -- Yes, multi-threaded apps development is a very interesting and useful stuff: I do actively use multi-thereading in my customers' real life 24x7x365 .NET applications, but I still have a lot to learn/to do (and that learning by doing promise to last forever :)) - the only thing I can say for sure now is that multi-threading development is at least a matter of magnitude more complicated and time consuming than a "mere" conventional single-threaded apps development. Hopefully the new MS technologies - .NET Framework, C# 4.0 and PLINQ will help to lower this complexity a bit(?)... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 6:55 PM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'; 'Discussion concerning MS SQL Server'; dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] Parallelism Hi All: A couple of nights ago, I went to a series of lectures given by a fellow named Tiberiu Covaci, Swedish owner of a company called Multi-Core and he is now doing a tour as a trainer for Microsoft. (His next lecture stop will be in New Orleans.) His training lecture was on Parallelism. The first lecture covered the basic concepts of computers and their new multi-core design, a design made necessary as single core computers ran into the physical wall as of 2005. He then went on to describe the attempts by developers to utilize these new multi-core systems. It has been a slow process as you can imagine. The rudimentary attempts of threading and hyper-threading were far from successful. First a single thread will consume up to 200 cycles just to get substantiated and its deployment still requires the central CPU and to spawn hundreds of threads, in a pool and then there was the issues of synchronizing the process results. Even the best developed multi-threaded applications, like MS SQL 2005 could over-load a computer when challenged by a heavy duty task. MS even went so far as to apply a system lock when performing resource heavy jobs... that means all other functionality on the server would cease... no multi-tasking, until the job was completed... even then sometimes a process would freeze up a server. (We have all heard of that exact situation from a number of our DBA members.) Our lecturer had designed a couple of short programs to showed how multi-threading was implemented and then demonstrated how these apps when over-loaded would crash or lock out the system. He used a Quick-sort, demo while splitting it into multiple pieces, multi-threading it and slowly increasing the sort data showed a 30 percent gain per thread and a 70 percent gain per core (maximum gain) but it also showed virtually not performance loss as the data increased (10 to 100 million records) until the process locked up the CPU. We watched the system progress via the Task Manger's CPU display. Lecture two; enter Parallelism. This process has being developed on the latest versions of Java and .Net frame work (4 or greater). He demonstrated two new core features/objects Parallel and Task. Using Parallelism requires a bit to decompose a problem into its components. He used an example of a recipe where a number of steps was required from initial preparation, to the cooking and to the table. The program which ended calculating the time was initially designed in a standard C# routine. The app was then recoded using Parallel running tasks. Each task can run independently, but wait for a process to be completed if required by scheduling, monitoring a semaphore, event, state and/or wait loops. We also covered how to handle synchronization, data sharing and how to avoid deadlocks. By using pararllelism the meal was completed in half the time... It showed how 6 people could do a job faster than one... now that's obvious but maybe not so obvious with a computer application. The most telling observation was when viewing the Task Manger's CPU display. No matter how heavy the requirements that were imposed on the system, the CPU demand remained very low and flat and each core showed an even distribution of utilization. I was totally impressed. Now I know how such super databases as Cassandra, using Java Parallelism works. My suggestion to all those of you using MS SQL 2005 or less; "Bail out quick and get you hands on the latest MS SQL... there will be no comparison in performance." A couple of recommended books on the subject are: "Patterns of Parallel Processing" and "Concurrent Programming on Windows" The latest .Net has all these features built in...just ready to use. Jim _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed May 19 16:49:37 2010 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 14:49:37 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Parallelism In-Reply-To: <000a01caf797$5f4ffb40$6501a8c0@nant> References: <34FFB67A32A64A85A1D61422E34D40CE@creativesystemdesigns.com> <73FC6395D2CA47639932C5A5B5204FEE@creativesystemdesigns.com> <3E23E4865861413788D4FD433E981005@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4A52241149474D76AA93A21F31C31BDA@creativesystemdesigns.com> <000a01caf797$5f4ffb40$6501a8c0@nant> Message-ID: <1C9DD9C7D00C4033867EC6E149EEC34C@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Shamil: Please note that the lecturer gave a very strict line of difference between multi-threaded applications and the new Parallelism... they are very different in coding, deployment and performance. It now appears that the preparation of coding will now take twice as long but it appears to be the only way to be able to get full performance from our new multi-cored computers. I understand that some Linux systems manage the Parallelism within their kernels so a new application may not see as great as performance advantage as on a Windows OS... but some List members may have far greater insight, on this subject, than I do. I had previously sent an email to Tiberiu Covaci asking for some clarification on the points and differences and as soon as I hear a reply, I will share that information. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 2:08 PM To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.' Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Parallelism Hi Jim -- Yes, multi-threaded apps development is a very interesting and useful stuff: I do actively use multi-thereading in my customers' real life 24x7x365 .NET applications, but I still have a lot to learn/to do (and that learning by doing promise to last forever :)) - the only thing I can say for sure now is that multi-threading development is at least a matter of magnitude more complicated and time consuming than a "mere" conventional single-threaded apps development. Hopefully the new MS technologies - .NET Framework, C# 4.0 and PLINQ will help to lower this complexity a bit(?)... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 6:55 PM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'; 'Discussion concerning MS SQL Server'; dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] Parallelism Hi All: A couple of nights ago, I went to a series of lectures given by a fellow named Tiberiu Covaci, Swedish owner of a company called Multi-Core and he is now doing a tour as a trainer for Microsoft. (His next lecture stop will be in New Orleans.) His training lecture was on Parallelism. The first lecture covered the basic concepts of computers and their new multi-core design, a design made necessary as single core computers ran into the physical wall as of 2005. He then went on to describe the attempts by developers to utilize these new multi-core systems. It has been a slow process as you can imagine. The rudimentary attempts of threading and hyper-threading were far from successful. First a single thread will consume up to 200 cycles just to get substantiated and its deployment still requires the central CPU and to spawn hundreds of threads, in a pool and then there was the issues of synchronizing the process results. Even the best developed multi-threaded applications, like MS SQL 2005 could over-load a computer when challenged by a heavy duty task. MS even went so far as to apply a system lock when performing resource heavy jobs... that means all other functionality on the server would cease... no multi-tasking, until the job was completed... even then sometimes a process would freeze up a server. (We have all heard of that exact situation from a number of our DBA members.) Our lecturer had designed a couple of short programs to showed how multi-threading was implemented and then demonstrated how these apps when over-loaded would crash or lock out the system. He used a Quick-sort, demo while splitting it into multiple pieces, multi-threading it and slowly increasing the sort data showed a 30 percent gain per thread and a 70 percent gain per core (maximum gain) but it also showed virtually not performance loss as the data increased (10 to 100 million records) until the process locked up the CPU. We watched the system progress via the Task Manger's CPU display. Lecture two; enter Parallelism. This process has being developed on the latest versions of Java and .Net frame work (4 or greater). He demonstrated two new core features/objects Parallel and Task. Using Parallelism requires a bit to decompose a problem into its components. He used an example of a recipe where a number of steps was required from initial preparation, to the cooking and to the table. The program which ended calculating the time was initially designed in a standard C# routine. The app was then recoded using Parallel running tasks. Each task can run independently, but wait for a process to be completed if required by scheduling, monitoring a semaphore, event, state and/or wait loops. We also covered how to handle synchronization, data sharing and how to avoid deadlocks. By using pararllelism the meal was completed in half the time... It showed how 6 people could do a job faster than one... now that's obvious but maybe not so obvious with a computer application. The most telling observation was when viewing the Task Manger's CPU display. No matter how heavy the requirements that were imposed on the system, the CPU demand remained very low and flat and each core showed an even distribution of utilization. I was totally impressed. Now I know how such super databases as Cassandra, using Java Parallelism works. My suggestion to all those of you using MS SQL 2005 or less; "Bail out quick and get you hands on the latest MS SQL... there will be no comparison in performance." A couple of recommended books on the subject are: "Patterns of Parallel Processing" and "Concurrent Programming on Windows" The latest .Net has all these features built in...just ready to use. Jim _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Sat May 22 14:43:46 2010 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Sat, 22 May 2010 23:43:46 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Parallelism In-Reply-To: <1C9DD9C7D00C4033867EC6E149EEC34C@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <34FFB67A32A64A85A1D61422E34D40CE@creativesystemdesigns.com><73FC6395D2CA47639932C5A5B5204FEE@creativesystemdesigns.com><3E23E4865861413788D4FD433E981005@creativesystemdesigns.com><4A52241149474D76AA93A21F31C31BDA@creativesystemdesigns.com><000a01caf797$5f4ffb40$6501a8c0@nant> <1C9DD9C7D00C4033867EC6E149EEC34C@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <114E8EB89D7E4498B14A6E84FA27EF84@nant> Hi Jim -- Thank you for your remark. Yes, I suppose I do realize the difference between multi-threading and Parallelism. And I suppose I do use both here in my everyday development: - Parallelism can be implemented by using multi-threading (long running threads usually performing conceptually different tasks) but it can be also implemented by running independent processes... - Multi-threading is usually treated as multiple short-living threads/-sub-processes running within one process, and often performing conceptually the same tasks, at least most of the threads of a multi-threaded application... Both Parallelism and Multi-threading can be implemented on one CPU provided independent processes or threads have some waiting/idle time - waiting for some external events to happen/tasks to be processed - that concept exists since IBM 360 MFT OS times (early 60-ies?)... Both Parallelism and Multi-Threading are getting mainstream nowadays when one process, which can't be "paralleled" on one CPU system because it has no "external events" to wait, can now be split into several sub-processes/threads to be scheduled to run on several CPUs/cores available within one computer - that's new for mass market PCs, but this concept of Parallelism/multi-threading is rather old coming from supercomputers - CRAY and CDC there, and Elbrus here (also 60ies AFAIKR)... Please correct me if I'm wrong. What's so new with "the new Parallelism" you mentioned? What am I missing? - Let's define this discussion thread context: I do not mention "neural networks" and "clouds" here - we are talking within context of one physical unit having several CPUs/cores and controlled by one operation system instance, correct?... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 1:50 AM To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.' Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Parallelism Hi Shamil: Please note that the lecturer gave a very strict line of difference between multi-threaded applications and the new Parallelism... they are very different in coding, deployment and performance. It now appears that the preparation of coding will now take twice as long but it appears to be the only way to be able to get full performance from our new multi-cored computers. I understand that some Linux systems manage the Parallelism within their kernels so a new application may not see as great as performance advantage as on a Windows OS... but some List members may have far greater insight, on this subject, than I do. I had previously sent an email to Tiberiu Covaci asking for some clarification on the points and differences and as soon as I hear a reply, I will share that information. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 2:08 PM To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.' Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Parallelism Hi Jim -- Yes, multi-threaded apps development is a very interesting and useful stuff: I do actively use multi-thereading in my customers' real life 24x7x365 .NET applications, but I still have a lot to learn/to do (and that learning by doing promise to last forever :)) - the only thing I can say for sure now is that multi-threading development is at least a matter of magnitude more complicated and time consuming than a "mere" conventional single-threaded apps development. Hopefully the new MS technologies - .NET Framework, C# 4.0 and PLINQ will help to lower this complexity a bit(?)... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 6:55 PM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'; 'Discussion concerning MS SQL Server'; dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] Parallelism Hi All: A couple of nights ago, I went to a series of lectures given by a fellow named Tiberiu Covaci, Swedish owner of a company called Multi-Core and he is now doing a tour as a trainer for Microsoft. (His next lecture stop will be in New Orleans.) His training lecture was on Parallelism. The first lecture covered the basic concepts of computers and their new multi-core design, a design made necessary as single core computers ran into the physical wall as of 2005. He then went on to describe the attempts by developers to utilize these new multi-core systems. It has been a slow process as you can imagine. The rudimentary attempts of threading and hyper-threading were far from successful. First a single thread will consume up to 200 cycles just to get substantiated and its deployment still requires the central CPU and to spawn hundreds of threads, in a pool and then there was the issues of synchronizing the process results. Even the best developed multi-threaded applications, like MS SQL 2005 could over-load a computer when challenged by a heavy duty task. MS even went so far as to apply a system lock when performing resource heavy jobs... that means all other functionality on the server would cease... no multi-tasking, until the job was completed... even then sometimes a process would freeze up a server. (We have all heard of that exact situation from a number of our DBA members.) Our lecturer had designed a couple of short programs to showed how multi-threading was implemented and then demonstrated how these apps when over-loaded would crash or lock out the system. He used a Quick-sort, demo while splitting it into multiple pieces, multi-threading it and slowly increasing the sort data showed a 30 percent gain per thread and a 70 percent gain per core (maximum gain) but it also showed virtually not performance loss as the data increased (10 to 100 million records) until the process locked up the CPU. We watched the system progress via the Task Manger's CPU display. Lecture two; enter Parallelism. This process has being developed on the latest versions of Java and .Net frame work (4 or greater). He demonstrated two new core features/objects Parallel and Task. Using Parallelism requires a bit to decompose a problem into its components. He used an example of a recipe where a number of steps was required from initial preparation, to the cooking and to the table. The program which ended calculating the time was initially designed in a standard C# routine. The app was then recoded using Parallel running tasks. Each task can run independently, but wait for a process to be completed if required by scheduling, monitoring a semaphore, event, state and/or wait loops. We also covered how to handle synchronization, data sharing and how to avoid deadlocks. By using pararllelism the meal was completed in half the time... It showed how 6 people could do a job faster than one... now that's obvious but maybe not so obvious with a computer application. The most telling observation was when viewing the Task Manger's CPU display. No matter how heavy the requirements that were imposed on the system, the CPU demand remained very low and flat and each core showed an even distribution of utilization. I was totally impressed. Now I know how such super databases as Cassandra, using Java Parallelism works. My suggestion to all those of you using MS SQL 2005 or less; "Bail out quick and get you hands on the latest MS SQL... there will be no comparison in performance." A couple of recommended books on the subject are: "Patterns of Parallel Processing" and "Concurrent Programming on Windows" The latest .Net has all these features built in...just ready to use. Jim _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sat May 22 17:04:15 2010 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 22 May 2010 15:04:15 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Parallelism In-Reply-To: <114E8EB89D7E4498B14A6E84FA27EF84@nant> References: <34FFB67A32A64A85A1D61422E34D40CE@creativesystemdesigns.com> <73FC6395D2CA47639932C5A5B5204FEE@creativesystemdesigns.com> <3E23E4865861413788D4FD433E981005@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4A52241149474D76AA93A21F31C31BDA@creativesystemdesigns.com> <000a01caf797$5f4ffb40$6501a8c0@nant> <1C9DD9C7D00C4033867EC6E149EEC34C@creativesystemdesigns.com> <114E8EB89D7E4498B14A6E84FA27EF84@nant> Message-ID: <7B2D6C891C63473CA06F71513D77F828@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Shamil: Since the first Unix system added the command 'Fork' there has been parallel processing... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fork_(operating_system) Yes, it could have very well been the 60's Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 12:44 PM To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.' Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Parallelism Hi Jim -- Thank you for your remark. Yes, I suppose I do realize the difference between multi-threading and Parallelism. And I suppose I do use both here in my everyday development: - Parallelism can be implemented by using multi-threading (long running threads usually performing conceptually different tasks) but it can be also implemented by running independent processes... - Multi-threading is usually treated as multiple short-living threads/-sub-processes running within one process, and often performing conceptually the same tasks, at least most of the threads of a multi-threaded application... Both Parallelism and Multi-threading can be implemented on one CPU provided independent processes or threads have some waiting/idle time - waiting for some external events to happen/tasks to be processed - that concept exists since IBM 360 MFT OS times (early 60-ies?)... Both Parallelism and Multi-Threading are getting mainstream nowadays when one process, which can't be "paralleled" on one CPU system because it has no "external events" to wait, can now be split into several sub-processes/threads to be scheduled to run on several CPUs/cores available within one computer - that's new for mass market PCs, but this concept of Parallelism/multi-threading is rather old coming from supercomputers - CRAY and CDC there, and Elbrus here (also 60ies AFAIKR)... Please correct me if I'm wrong. What's so new with "the new Parallelism" you mentioned? What am I missing? - Let's define this discussion thread context: I do not mention "neural networks" and "clouds" here - we are talking within context of one physical unit having several CPUs/cores and controlled by one operation system instance, correct?... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 1:50 AM To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.' Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Parallelism Hi Shamil: Please note that the lecturer gave a very strict line of difference between multi-threaded applications and the new Parallelism... they are very different in coding, deployment and performance. It now appears that the preparation of coding will now take twice as long but it appears to be the only way to be able to get full performance from our new multi-cored computers. I understand that some Linux systems manage the Parallelism within their kernels so a new application may not see as great as performance advantage as on a Windows OS... but some List members may have far greater insight, on this subject, than I do. I had previously sent an email to Tiberiu Covaci asking for some clarification on the points and differences and as soon as I hear a reply, I will share that information. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 2:08 PM To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.' Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Parallelism Hi Jim -- Yes, multi-threaded apps development is a very interesting and useful stuff: I do actively use multi-thereading in my customers' real life 24x7x365 .NET applications, but I still have a lot to learn/to do (and that learning by doing promise to last forever :)) - the only thing I can say for sure now is that multi-threading development is at least a matter of magnitude more complicated and time consuming than a "mere" conventional single-threaded apps development. Hopefully the new MS technologies - .NET Framework, C# 4.0 and PLINQ will help to lower this complexity a bit(?)... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 6:55 PM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'; 'Discussion concerning MS SQL Server'; dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] Parallelism Hi All: A couple of nights ago, I went to a series of lectures given by a fellow named Tiberiu Covaci, Swedish owner of a company called Multi-Core and he is now doing a tour as a trainer for Microsoft. (His next lecture stop will be in New Orleans.) His training lecture was on Parallelism. The first lecture covered the basic concepts of computers and their new multi-core design, a design made necessary as single core computers ran into the physical wall as of 2005. He then went on to describe the attempts by developers to utilize these new multi-core systems. It has been a slow process as you can imagine. The rudimentary attempts of threading and hyper-threading were far from successful. First a single thread will consume up to 200 cycles just to get substantiated and its deployment still requires the central CPU and to spawn hundreds of threads, in a pool and then there was the issues of synchronizing the process results. Even the best developed multi-threaded applications, like MS SQL 2005 could over-load a computer when challenged by a heavy duty task. MS even went so far as to apply a system lock when performing resource heavy jobs... that means all other functionality on the server would cease... no multi-tasking, until the job was completed... even then sometimes a process would freeze up a server. (We have all heard of that exact situation from a number of our DBA members.) Our lecturer had designed a couple of short programs to showed how multi-threading was implemented and then demonstrated how these apps when over-loaded would crash or lock out the system. He used a Quick-sort, demo while splitting it into multiple pieces, multi-threading it and slowly increasing the sort data showed a 30 percent gain per thread and a 70 percent gain per core (maximum gain) but it also showed virtually not performance loss as the data increased (10 to 100 million records) until the process locked up the CPU. We watched the system progress via the Task Manger's CPU display. Lecture two; enter Parallelism. This process has being developed on the latest versions of Java and .Net frame work (4 or greater). He demonstrated two new core features/objects Parallel and Task. Using Parallelism requires a bit to decompose a problem into its components. He used an example of a recipe where a number of steps was required from initial preparation, to the cooking and to the table. The program which ended calculating the time was initially designed in a standard C# routine. The app was then recoded using Parallel running tasks. Each task can run independently, but wait for a process to be completed if required by scheduling, monitoring a semaphore, event, state and/or wait loops. We also covered how to handle synchronization, data sharing and how to avoid deadlocks. By using pararllelism the meal was completed in half the time... It showed how 6 people could do a job faster than one... now that's obvious but maybe not so obvious with a computer application. The most telling observation was when viewing the Task Manger's CPU display. No matter how heavy the requirements that were imposed on the system, the CPU demand remained very low and flat and each core showed an even distribution of utilization. I was totally impressed. Now I know how such super databases as Cassandra, using Java Parallelism works. My suggestion to all those of you using MS SQL 2005 or less; "Bail out quick and get you hands on the latest MS SQL... there will be no comparison in performance." A couple of recommended books on the subject are: "Patterns of Parallel Processing" and "Concurrent Programming on Windows" The latest .Net has all these features built in...just ready to use. Jim _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Sat May 22 18:28:55 2010 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Sun, 23 May 2010 03:28:55 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Parallelism In-Reply-To: <7B2D6C891C63473CA06F71513D77F828@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <34FFB67A32A64A85A1D61422E34D40CE@creativesystemdesigns.com><73FC6395D2CA47639932C5A5B5204FEE@creativesystemdesigns.com><3E23E4865861413788D4FD433E981005@creativesystemdesigns.com><4A52241149474D76AA93A21F31C31BDA@creativesystemdesigns.com><000a01caf797$5f4ffb40$6501a8c0@nant><1C9DD9C7D00C4033867EC6E149EEC34C@creativesystemdesigns.com><114E8EB89D7E4498B14A6E84FA27EF84@nant> <7B2D6C891C63473CA06F71513D77F828@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Hi Jim -- Yes, "fork", but before that was IBM360, which has had special hardware and operation system software to handle Input/Output channels, multiplexing console input etc. - and when that special hardware has been working for input/output CPU was idle, and could have been used by other application processes - AFAIKR even PL/1 has had some function calls to start and handle long running "independent" threads within a running process/task, but starting an independent task that wasn't possible on application programs level (?) for IBM360 MFT and MVT OSes, and in mid-1970-ies, the next IBM OS, MVS, has got multi-processor systems support they say: well that all was very expensive that times of course and not broadly available as nowadays multi-core mass market computer systems but all nowadays Parallelism and Multi-Threading concepts were mainly developed during that "ancient" times: and then came MS and has been keeping us in "preemptive multitasking" "straitjacket" for almost 20 years - was that good, bad, necessary and inevitable MS-driven "moderation and control" for technology mass market to mature?... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 2:04 AM To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.' Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Parallelism Hi Shamil: Since the first Unix system added the command 'Fork' there has been parallel processing... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fork_(operating_system) Yes, it could have very well been the 60's Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 12:44 PM To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.' Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Parallelism Hi Jim -- Thank you for your remark. Yes, I suppose I do realize the difference between multi-threading and Parallelism. And I suppose I do use both here in my everyday development: - Parallelism can be implemented by using multi-threading (long running threads usually performing conceptually different tasks) but it can be also implemented by running independent processes... - Multi-threading is usually treated as multiple short-living threads/-sub-processes running within one process, and often performing conceptually the same tasks, at least most of the threads of a multi-threaded application... Both Parallelism and Multi-threading can be implemented on one CPU provided independent processes or threads have some waiting/idle time - waiting for some external events to happen/tasks to be processed - that concept exists since IBM 360 MFT OS times (early 60-ies?)... Both Parallelism and Multi-Threading are getting mainstream nowadays when one process, which can't be "paralleled" on one CPU system because it has no "external events" to wait, can now be split into several sub-processes/threads to be scheduled to run on several CPUs/cores available within one computer - that's new for mass market PCs, but this concept of Parallelism/multi-threading is rather old coming from supercomputers - CRAY and CDC there, and Elbrus here (also 60ies AFAIKR)... Please correct me if I'm wrong. What's so new with "the new Parallelism" you mentioned? What am I missing? - Let's define this discussion thread context: I do not mention "neural networks" and "clouds" here - we are talking within context of one physical unit having several CPUs/cores and controlled by one operation system instance, correct?... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 1:50 AM To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.' Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Parallelism Hi Shamil: Please note that the lecturer gave a very strict line of difference between multi-threaded applications and the new Parallelism... they are very different in coding, deployment and performance. It now appears that the preparation of coding will now take twice as long but it appears to be the only way to be able to get full performance from our new multi-cored computers. I understand that some Linux systems manage the Parallelism within their kernels so a new application may not see as great as performance advantage as on a Windows OS... but some List members may have far greater insight, on this subject, than I do. I had previously sent an email to Tiberiu Covaci asking for some clarification on the points and differences and as soon as I hear a reply, I will share that information. Jim <<< snip >>> From accessd at shaw.ca Sun May 23 12:00:34 2010 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sun, 23 May 2010 10:00:34 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Parallelism In-Reply-To: References: <34FFB67A32A64A85A1D61422E34D40CE@creativesystemdesigns.com> <73FC6395D2CA47639932C5A5B5204FEE@creativesystemdesigns.com> <3E23E4865861413788D4FD433E981005@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4A52241149474D76AA93A21F31C31BDA@creativesystemdesigns.com> <000a01caf797$5f4ffb40$6501a8c0@nant> <1C9DD9C7D00C4033867EC6E149EEC34C@creativesystemdesigns.com> <114E8EB89D7E4498B14A6E84FA27EF84@nant> <7B2D6C891C63473CA06F71513D77F828@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: The single-user, single-tasking system detuned from CPM and Unix called DOS... the one with the backward slash: "\"? I worked on that mini IBM 360, many years ago, along with the VAX-11/780 and PDP-11/70 (the whole Vax line is gone now but their virtual OS (the first production version of Unix and subsequently ATT UNIX and derivitives BSD and SCO), directory interface and structure was a fore-runner of all our current systems.) Linux systems in the interim have been our poor man's multi-tasking and multi-user system since 1994-1995. Even Mac have moved to a freeBSD core. Microsoft's desktop computers can be made multi-user with a few good hacks but that is not officially supported. There is so many different threading models but to my understanding real Parallelism (which appears to function as a load balancer, across CPU, threading model) can not be truly implemented on any computer but one with multi-cores and those systems, for the average user, have only been in the market since 2005-2006. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 4:29 PM To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.' Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Parallelism Hi Jim -- Yes, "fork", but before that was IBM360, which has had special hardware and operation system software to handle Input/Output channels, multiplexing console input etc. - and when that special hardware has been working for input/output CPU was idle, and could have been used by other application processes - AFAIKR even PL/1 has had some function calls to start and handle long running "independent" threads within a running process/task, but starting an independent task that wasn't possible on application programs level (?) for IBM360 MFT and MVT OSes, and in mid-1970-ies, the next IBM OS, MVS, has got multi-processor systems support they say: well that all was very expensive that times of course and not broadly available as nowadays multi-core mass market computer systems but all nowadays Parallelism and Multi-Threading concepts were mainly developed during that "ancient" times: and then came MS and has been keeping us in "preemptive multitasking" "straitjacket" for almost 20 years - was that good, bad, necessary and inevitable MS-driven "moderation and control" for technology mass market to mature?... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 2:04 AM To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.' Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Parallelism Hi Shamil: Since the first Unix system added the command 'Fork' there has been parallel processing... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fork_(operating_system) Yes, it could have very well been the 60's Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 12:44 PM To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.' Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Parallelism Hi Jim -- Thank you for your remark. Yes, I suppose I do realize the difference between multi-threading and Parallelism. And I suppose I do use both here in my everyday development: - Parallelism can be implemented by using multi-threading (long running threads usually performing conceptually different tasks) but it can be also implemented by running independent processes... - Multi-threading is usually treated as multiple short-living threads/-sub-processes running within one process, and often performing conceptually the same tasks, at least most of the threads of a multi-threaded application... Both Parallelism and Multi-threading can be implemented on one CPU provided independent processes or threads have some waiting/idle time - waiting for some external events to happen/tasks to be processed - that concept exists since IBM 360 MFT OS times (early 60-ies?)... Both Parallelism and Multi-Threading are getting mainstream nowadays when one process, which can't be "paralleled" on one CPU system because it has no "external events" to wait, can now be split into several sub-processes/threads to be scheduled to run on several CPUs/cores available within one computer - that's new for mass market PCs, but this concept of Parallelism/multi-threading is rather old coming from supercomputers - CRAY and CDC there, and Elbrus here (also 60ies AFAIKR)... Please correct me if I'm wrong. What's so new with "the new Parallelism" you mentioned? What am I missing? - Let's define this discussion thread context: I do not mention "neural networks" and "clouds" here - we are talking within context of one physical unit having several CPUs/cores and controlled by one operation system instance, correct?... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 1:50 AM To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.' Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Parallelism Hi Shamil: Please note that the lecturer gave a very strict line of difference between multi-threaded applications and the new Parallelism... they are very different in coding, deployment and performance. It now appears that the preparation of coding will now take twice as long but it appears to be the only way to be able to get full performance from our new multi-cored computers. I understand that some Linux systems manage the Parallelism within their kernels so a new application may not see as great as performance advantage as on a Windows OS... but some List members may have far greater insight, on this subject, than I do. I had previously sent an email to Tiberiu Covaci asking for some clarification on the points and differences and as soon as I hear a reply, I will share that information. Jim <<< snip >>> _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri May 7 12:55:27 2010 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 07 May 2010 19:55:27 +0200 Subject: [dba-VB] Cassandra (was: A couple of great articles on latest and greatest) Message-ID: Hi Jim It is not easy to get hold on this monster. Here are some useful links I found: WTF is a SuperColumn? An Intro to the Cassandra Data Model: http://arin.me/blog/wtf-is-a-supercolumn-cassandra-data-model Cassandra Jump Start For The Windows Developer: http://www.coderjournal.com/2010/03/cassandra-jump-start-for-the-windows-developer/ Thrift Wiki. Basic requirements for win32: http://wiki.apache.org/thrift/ThriftInstallationWin32 Nick Berardi's managedfusion / fluentcassandra: FluentCassandra is a .NET library for accessing Cassandra, which wraps the Thrift client library and provides a more fluent POCO interface for accessing and querying the objects in Cassandra. http://github.com/managedfusion/fluentcassandra/blob/master/README.mkd#readme Nick Berardi's C# CasandraDemo: https://code.google.com/p/coderjournal/source/browse/trunk/Posts/2010/03/CassandraDemo.cs So much to read and learn ... /gustav >>> accessd at shaw.ca 07-05-2010 16:25 >>> For a brief moment there Terabyte was the size ultimate but that point passed quickly and the computer world went on to Pentabyte; well that point of ultimate has now again been surpassed as we have Zettabytes. http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2010/may/03/humanity-digital-output-zet tabyte Some latest information from some who have been experimenting with the new super database called Cassandra. Notice through the performances trials the CPU utilization remains flat! The team pushed the product to see where better utilization could be achieved and noted setting caching would help performance... But keep in mind this DBs performance is so far beyond our standard SQLs. http://jamesgolick.com/2010/4/4/two-weeks-with-cassandra.html An aside: It will be a while before the hard drive bottle-neck is really fully resolved. Right now splitting a data store across numerous drives, all indexed and cashed is the only way to lessen the performance pain. That is why the new breed of distributive databases are so fast because they manage the hardware layer so well. Our current crop of standard SQLs just leave the hardware to manage it's self. Jim _______________________________________________ dba-Tech mailing list dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Johncliviger at aol.com Sun May 9 13:23:30 2010 From: Johncliviger at aol.com (Johncliviger at aol.com) Date: Sun, 9 May 2010 14:23:30 EDT Subject: [dba-VB] Moving controls at runtime Message-ID: <14dc4.69e4f4a5.391857a2@aol.com> Hi Guys, I need to permit users at runtime to move controls around a Form. And I've done that my using the Mouse Up, Move and Down events and it even works. Great! But I now need to save/persist those new XY location numbers. After much scratching of the old head I concluded that I should store them in Mysettings. The question is ..is that the best way to save the new settings and some pointers on how to code it will be most useful. A Sunday afternoon has passed without much progress and the dog is ignoring me due to the lack of a walk. TIA john cliviger O yes. I using vb.net 2005 From accessd at shaw.ca Mon May 10 17:03:30 2010 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 15:03:30 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] New unstoppable malware on the horizon In-Reply-To: References: <386C9B6DF71A4523858967C65AD50030@HAL9005> Message-ID: <50437C7E0164474A8DB4BEE7D111F0C6@creativesystemdesigns.com> Now that most of our new computers are multi-cored and capable of running processes in parallel, it appears, unfortunately that most of our software has not taken advance of this new capability or do most programmers even know how to. Here in lies the danger. Our best virus protection software is just designed for single core processes. A company has pointed out the weakness to our situation and how to take advantage of it. It works like the old bait and switch routine. While the current protection software is busy validating some innocuous file or software the malware is busy pushing a zombie through via a parallel process. Very slick: http://www.matousec.com/info/articles/khobe-8.0-earthquake-for-windows-deskt op-security-software.php Now that the knowledge of how to build unstoppable malware is out there how long do we have to wait until our protection software is ready to stop the inevitable flood? Jim From michael at ddisolutions.com.au Wed May 12 18:39:06 2010 From: michael at ddisolutions.com.au (Michael Maddison) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 09:39:06 +1000 Subject: [dba-VB] Web project advice Message-ID: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B59C8@ddi-01.DDI.local> Hi Guys, Just looking for some feedback. I've been asked to quote on a small website for a cattle stud. It's not a complex site but the user has asked for the ability to add/update beast stud info. He says he needs to do this once a year. I've used DNN before but it seems like overkill for this spec. Adding/removing maybe 10 entries a year. Any thoughts/recommendations? Cheers Michael M From ha at phulse.com Wed May 12 18:47:42 2010 From: ha at phulse.com (Hans-Christian Andersen) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 00:47:42 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Web project advice In-Reply-To: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B59C8@ddi-01.DDI.local> References: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B59C8@ddi-01.DDI.local> Message-ID: For something really lightweight and basic, that requires just occasional updates, Wordpress, despite being a blogging platform, makes a very simple to set up and effective cms. I personally use it in that context. Hans-Christian Software Developer, UK ----------------------------------------------------------------- tel: +44 (0)782 894 5456 e-mail: hans.andersen at phulse.com www: nokenode.com ----------------------------------------------------------------- Unique Gifts, Collectables, Artwork ----------------------------------------------------------------- Come one Come all to www.corinnajasmine.com ----------------------------------------------------------------- On 13 May 2010 00:39, Michael Maddison wrote: > Hi Guys, > > > > Just looking for some feedback. > > I've been asked to quote on a small website for a cattle stud. > > It's not a complex site but the user has asked for the ability to > add/update beast stud info. He says he needs to do this once a year. > > I've used DNN before but it seems like overkill for this spec. > > Adding/removing maybe 10 entries a year. > > > > Any thoughts/recommendations? > > > > Cheers > > > > Michael M > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From michael at ddisolutions.com.au Wed May 12 19:03:37 2010 From: michael at ddisolutions.com.au (Michael Maddison) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 10:03:37 +1000 Subject: [dba-VB] Web project advice References: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B59C8@ddi-01.DDI.local> Message-ID: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B59C9@ddi-01.DDI.local> Wow, Never would have thought of that :-) I'll check it out. Cheers Michael -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hans-Christian Andersen Sent: Thursday, 13 May 2010 9:48 AM To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues. Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Web project advice For something really lightweight and basic, that requires just occasional updates, Wordpress, despite being a blogging platform, makes a very simple to set up and effective cms. I personally use it in that context. Hans-Christian Software Developer, UK ----------------------------------------------------------------- tel: +44 (0)782 894 5456 e-mail: hans.andersen at phulse.com www: nokenode.com ----------------------------------------------------------------- Unique Gifts, Collectables, Artwork ----------------------------------------------------------------- Come one Come all to www.corinnajasmine.com ----------------------------------------------------------------- On 13 May 2010 00:39, Michael Maddison wrote: > Hi Guys, > > > > Just looking for some feedback. > > I've been asked to quote on a small website for a cattle stud. > > It's not a complex site but the user has asked for the ability to > add/update beast stud info. He says he needs to do this once a year. > > I've used DNN before but it seems like overkill for this spec. > > Adding/removing maybe 10 entries a year. > > > > Any thoughts/recommendations? > > > > Cheers > > > > Michael M > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2860 - Release Date: 05/13/10 04:26:00 From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Wed May 12 21:17:23 2010 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 22:17:23 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Web project advice In-Reply-To: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B59C8@ddi-01.DDI.local> References: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B59C8@ddi-01.DDI.local> Message-ID: <0AAC78A97456476EBDEFAE52668BC2B1@jislaptopdev> ...why reinvent the wheel ...just find a stud farm web template ...quick look says there are plenty available. William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Michael Maddison" Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 7:39 PM To: "Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues." Subject: [dba-VB] Web project advice > Hi Guys, > > > > Just looking for some feedback. > > I've been asked to quote on a small website for a cattle stud. > > It's not a complex site but the user has asked for the ability to > add/update beast stud info. He says he needs to do this once a year. > > I've used DNN before but it seems like overkill for this spec. > > Adding/removing maybe 10 entries a year. > > > > Any thoughts/recommendations? > > > > Cheers > > > > Michael M > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu May 13 01:59:21 2010 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 08:59:21 +0200 Subject: [dba-VB] Web project advice Message-ID: Hi Michael Or Google Apps: http://www.google.com/apps/intl/en/business/sites.html /gustav >>> michael at ddisolutions.com.au 13-05-2010 01:39 >>> Hi Guys, Just looking for some feedback. I've been asked to quote on a small website for a cattle stud. It's not a complex site but the user has asked for the ability to add/update beast stud info. He says he needs to do this once a year. I've used DNN before but it seems like overkill for this spec. Adding/removing maybe 10 entries a year. Any thoughts/recommendations? Cheers Michael M _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Thu May 13 03:02:37 2010 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 12:02:37 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Web project advice In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001e01caf272$a7f0cc50$6501a8c0@nant> <<< Google Apps: >>> Hi Gustav -- Do you know do they (Google Apps) plan to have somehow introduced Mercurial source code control/repositories support? Thank you. --Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 10:59 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Web project advice Hi Michael Or Google Apps: http://www.google.com/apps/intl/en/business/sites.html /gustav >>> michael at ddisolutions.com.au 13-05-2010 01:39 >>> Hi Guys, Just looking for some feedback. I've been asked to quote on a small website for a cattle stud. It's not a complex site but the user has asked for the ability to add/update beast stud info. He says he needs to do this once a year. I've used DNN before but it seems like overkill for this spec. Adding/removing maybe 10 entries a year. Any thoughts/recommendations? Cheers Michael M From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu May 13 05:20:21 2010 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 12:20:21 +0200 Subject: [dba-VB] Web project advice Message-ID: Hi Shamil No, I have no idea. I haven't coded anything with Google tools. /gustav >>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 13-05-2010 10:02 >>> <<< Google Apps: >>> Hi Gustav -- Do you know do they (Google Apps) plan to have somehow introduced Mercurial source code control/repositories support? Thank you. --Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 10:59 AM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Web project advice Hi Michael Or Google Apps: http://www.google.com/apps/intl/en/business/sites.html /gustav >>> michael at ddisolutions.com.au 13-05-2010 01:39 >>> Hi Guys, Just looking for some feedback. I've been asked to quote on a small website for a cattle stud. It's not a complex site but the user has asked for the ability to add/update beast stud info. He says he needs to do this once a year. I've used DNN before but it seems like overkill for this spec. Adding/removing maybe 10 entries a year. Any thoughts/recommendations? Cheers Michael M From marklbreen at gmail.com Thu May 13 05:19:35 2010 From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 11:19:35 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Web project advice In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Michael, I have set up about 100 sites now with Google apps, I can do them in approx 15 minutes if I have the content. It is free and you get the benefit of corporate quality email as well. Remember you need to select the Standard Edition as opposed to the Premium Edition. It has a list / table style template page which works well. Google Gadgets work really great also, especially the maps and you tube integration HTH, Mark On 13 May 2010 07:59, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Michael > > Or Google Apps: > > http://www.google.com/apps/intl/en/business/sites.html > > /gustav > > > >>> michael at ddisolutions.com.au 13-05-2010 01:39 >>> > Hi Guys, > > > > Just looking for some feedback. > > I've been asked to quote on a small website for a cattle stud. > > It's not a complex site but the user has asked for the ability to > add/update beast stud info. He says he needs to do this once a year. > > I've used DNN before but it seems like overkill for this spec. > > Adding/removing maybe 10 entries a year. > > > > Any thoughts/recommendations? > > > > Cheers > > > > Michael M > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Thu May 13 09:34:53 2010 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 09:34:53 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] Moving controls at runtime In-Reply-To: <14dc4.69e4f4a5.391857a2@aol.com> References: <14dc4.69e4f4a5.391857a2@aol.com> Message-ID: John, I have two methods for tracking this sort of info in the main application I develop on (I'm not into developing much anymore). The application I am referring to is a networked app, that runs on every desktop at my company, so it is possible that the same user would use the app on different machines. So I determine if I want the 'feature' to be remembered by user, or by desktop. By user, I store the data in a table in the database, retrieved when the user logs in. By machine, I store the data in a text file that is loaded and saved when the app starts and stops. I don't have any controls moving around, but I do allow many forms to be resized, and so on the OnLoad event of each form I have a 'FormOpen Me' statement that runs a function with a reference to the form as an argument, which lets the function retrieve the size and position values based on the form name, from the text file data, and then apply that information to the form. On the Unload event, I have 'FormClose Me' which then records the values for the form to be saved in the text file. The app I refer too is a VB 6 app. I use a class module called 'LocalSettings' to store this data. Here's the .ini file that is on my desktop right now for this application: RAdminPath=C:\Program Files (x86)\Radmin Viewer 3\Radmin.exe frmPhoneList-Top=1875 frmPhoneList-Left=1875 frmPhoneList-Width=6780 frmPhoneList-Height=7005 When the app loads, it's populating a collection with the items on the left of the equal sign as the keys and the items on the right as the values. The 'LocalSettings' class simply retrieves, stores, and records those values without caring what they are. So on the FormOpen method, I simply have the following: Me.Top=MyLocalSettings.LocalProperty(Me.Name & "-Top") And so on. Obviously I have a line to determine that there is recorded info for the form, before it moves or resizes anything (the first time a form would be opened, there would be no info for it). The data I store in the database, so it would transfer from machine to machine, is actually less simple. Screen sizes and positions aren't things I would want globally stored because different machines can have different resolutions and monitor sizes. Drew -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Johncliviger at aol.com Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 1:24 PM To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] Moving controls at runtime Hi Guys, I need to permit users at runtime to move controls around a Form. And I've done that my using the Mouse Up, Move and Down events and it even works. Great! But I now need to save/persist those new XY location numbers. After much scratching of the old head I concluded that I should store them in Mysettings. The question is ..is that the best way to save the new settings and some pointers on how to code it will be most useful. A Sunday afternoon has passed without much progress and the dog is ignoring me due to the lack of a walk. TIA john cliviger O yes. I using vb.net 2005 _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From marklbreen at gmail.com Thu May 13 10:02:27 2010 From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 16:02:27 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] OT - Good Karma Wristlets Message-ID: Hello Friends My 11 year old daughter named Caitlin has her own little Google Apps website, www.caitlinbreen.com. She has recently been platting bracelets with some wool and has been giving them to friends in school. She calls them Good Karma Wristlets. The idea being she gives them for free and you receive them for free, but when you get one, you have to pass on the Good Karma. On her site, you can see that she has included a photo of some of the Wristlets, they are not too complex as you can see, but her and her friends are enjoying them. If you have a daughter / son / friend / wife / husband that would like one, please drop Caitlin a line and she will send you a Wristlet. Please feel free to pass on this email to anyone you think appropriate. I hope it is OK to include this on the list. As most of the list members are outside Ireland, it will be exciting for her to see requests from "abroad". You do not need mention that her Dad drew the site to your attention :). Some of you know me- and might even vouch for me - and know that I am on AccessD since 1997 so I am not seeking to sell you anything here, of course. Thanks a lot, Mark Breen Ireland From garykjos at gmail.com Thu May 13 10:15:08 2010 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 10:15:08 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] [dba-Tech] OT - Good Karma Wristlets In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Mark, No problem with the posting. Sounds like fun. GK On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 10:02 AM, Mark Breen wrote: > Hello Friends > > My 11 year old daughter named Caitlin has her own little Google Apps > website, www.caitlinbreen.com. > > She has recently been platting bracelets with some wool and has been giving > them to friends in school. ?She calls them Good Karma Wristlets. ?The idea > being she gives them for free and you receive them for free, but when you > get one, you have to pass on the Good Karma. ?On her site, you can see that > she has included a photo of some of the Wristlets, they are not too complex > as you can see, but her and her friends are enjoying them. > > If you have a daughter / son / friend / wife / husband that would like one, > please drop Caitlin a line and she will send you a Wristlet. > > Please feel free to pass on this email to anyone you think appropriate. > > I hope it is OK to include this on the list. ?As most of the list members > are outside Ireland, it will be exciting for her to see requests from > "abroad". ?You do not need mention that her Dad drew the site to your > attention :). > > Some of you know me- and might even vouch for me - and know that I am on > AccessD since 1997 so I am not seeking to sell you anything here, of course. > > Thanks a lot, > > Mark Breen > Ireland > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From marklbreen at gmail.com Thu May 13 13:39:13 2010 From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 19:39:13 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] OT - Good Karma Wristlets In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello All, just FYI, I messed up the email, so if you wrote to Caitlin within the last few hours, you probably got a bounce, it is fixed now, sorry about that, thanks again, Mark On 13 May 2010 16:02, Mark Breen wrote: > Hello Friends > > My 11 year old daughter named Caitlin has her own little Google Apps > website, www.caitlinbreen.com. > > She has recently been platting bracelets with some wool and has been giving > them to friends in school. She calls them Good Karma Wristlets. The idea > being she gives them for free and you receive them for free, but when you > get one, you have to pass on the Good Karma. On her site, you can see that > she has included a photo of some of the Wristlets, they are not too complex > as you can see, but her and her friends are enjoying them. > > If you have a daughter / son / friend / wife / husband that would like one, > please drop Caitlin a line and she will send you a Wristlet. > > Please feel free to pass on this email to anyone you think appropriate. > > I hope it is OK to include this on the list. As most of the list members > are outside Ireland, it will be exciting for her to see requests from > "abroad". You do not need mention that her Dad drew the site to your > attention :). > > Some of you know me- and might even vouch for me - and know that I am on > AccessD since 1997 so I am not seeking to sell you anything here, of course. > > Thanks a lot, > > Mark Breen > Ireland > From Johncliviger at aol.com Thu May 13 13:57:09 2010 From: Johncliviger at aol.com (Johncliviger at aol.com) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 14:57:09 EDT Subject: [dba-VB] Moving controls at runtime Message-ID: <4f48a.119b406b.391da585@aol.com> Hi Drew Thank you for the info. I've just read it. I need to think it thru. I'll come back. regards john cliviger From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Thu May 13 17:18:01 2010 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 18:18:01 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Moving controls at runtime In-Reply-To: <14dc4.69e4f4a5.391857a2@aol.com> References: <14dc4.69e4f4a5.391857a2@aol.com> Message-ID: John I've sent you an mdb off line that lets users move labels around a form and stores the positions in a table for retrieval ...I played with it as a floor planning solution but ultimately the limits on the number of controls on a single form made it unusable for the app I needed it for ...but it sounds like it might meet your needs ...hth William -------------------------------------------------- From: Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 2:23 PM To: Subject: [dba-VB] Moving controls at runtime > Hi Guys, > > I need to permit users at runtime to move controls around a Form. And I've > done that my using the Mouse Up, Move and Down events and it even works. > Great! But I now need to save/persist those new XY location numbers. > After > much scratching of the old head I concluded that I should store them in > Mysettings. > > The question is ..is that the best way to save the new settings and some > pointers on how to code it will be most useful. A Sunday afternoon has > passed without much progress and the dog is ignoring me due to the lack of > a > walk. > > TIA > john cliviger > > O yes. I using vb.net 2005 > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From michael at ddisolutions.com.au Thu May 13 18:22:41 2010 From: michael at ddisolutions.com.au (Michael Maddison) Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 09:22:41 +1000 Subject: [dba-VB] Web project advice References: Message-ID: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B59E0@ddi-01.DDI.local> I'm curious about how you go about charging for using a platform like google apps or wordpress? How do you 'sell' the concept? I should probably go and try one out I guess :-) Cheers Michael Hello Michael, I have set up about 100 sites now with Google apps, I can do them in approx 15 minutes if I have the content. It is free and you get the benefit of corporate quality email as well. Remember you need to select the Standard Edition as opposed to the Premium Edition. It has a list / table style template page which works well. Google Gadgets work really great also, especially the maps and you tube integration HTH, Mark On 13 May 2010 07:59, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Michael > > Or Google Apps: > > http://www.google.com/apps/intl/en/business/sites.html > > /gustav > > > >>> michael at ddisolutions.com.au 13-05-2010 01:39 >>> > Hi Guys, > > > > Just looking for some feedback. > > I've been asked to quote on a small website for a cattle stud. > > It's not a complex site but the user has asked for the ability to > add/update beast stud info. He says he needs to do this once a year. > > I've used DNN before but it seems like overkill for this spec. > > Adding/removing maybe 10 entries a year. > > > > Any thoughts/recommendations? > > > > Cheers > > > > Michael M > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2870 - Release Date: 05/13/10 04:26:00 From michael at ddisolutions.com.au Thu May 13 18:28:36 2010 From: michael at ddisolutions.com.au (Michael Maddison) Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 09:28:36 +1000 Subject: [dba-VB] Web project advice References: Message-ID: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B59E1@ddi-01.DDI.local> Cant find a trial option and I'm not sure I should use my real domain to try it out? How much flexibility do you have with styles/laying out the pages? 15 minutes??? I'll go broke :-( Cheers Michael Hello Michael, I have set up about 100 sites now with Google apps, I can do them in approx 15 minutes if I have the content. It is free and you get the benefit of corporate quality email as well. Remember you need to select the Standard Edition as opposed to the Premium Edition. It has a list / table style template page which works well. Google Gadgets work really great also, especially the maps and you tube integration HTH, Mark On 13 May 2010 07:59, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Michael > > Or Google Apps: > > http://www.google.com/apps/intl/en/business/sites.html > > /gustav > > > >>> michael at ddisolutions.com.au 13-05-2010 01:39 >>> > Hi Guys, > > > > Just looking for some feedback. > > I've been asked to quote on a small website for a cattle stud. > > It's not a complex site but the user has asked for the ability to > add/update beast stud info. He says he needs to do this once a year. > > I've used DNN before but it seems like overkill for this spec. > > Adding/removing maybe 10 entries a year. > > > > Any thoughts/recommendations? > > > > Cheers > > > > Michael M > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2870 - Release Date: 05/13/10 04:26:00 From marklbreen at gmail.com Fri May 14 03:13:51 2010 From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen) Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 09:13:51 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Web project advice In-Reply-To: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B59E1@ddi-01.DDI.local> References: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B59E1@ddi-01.DDI.local> Message-ID: Hello Michael, You have two choices when you create a google apps site 1) use a previously created domain name that is not really currently being used for anything else 2) Allow Google and their domain registration partners (Go Daddy and Enum) to create a .com domain for you for $10 I usually prefer option 1 because it allows me to seperate out the management of the domain name and the domain hosting (the google bit). However the slight complication with option 1 is that you have to create the C Records and the MX Records yourself. If you have not done this previously, it can seem daunting, although in reality it is not difficult and there are loads of instructions out there. In Option 2 Google will do ahead and open a Go Daddy / Enum account for you, pay the 10 USD and then they will set the C Names and MX Records all automagically. This works a treat and is very slick. However, if you do not currently have a google account and if that Google account does not currently have payment facilities set up, you will have to do that as part of the process. This can take the shine off the slickness, but once it is done, option 2 is slick. So, assuming you have chosen Option 1 or 2, the total cost now of playing with Google Apps is ?10 for the domain registration. I customarily create domains and sometimes forget about them once I have tested a particular point. I frequently register domains with names such as www.test14052010.com As Gustav will probably agree, Google Apps is an incredible solution for free, the email facilities alone are great and for small businesses that was to pay just $10 per year for their domain registration, this is a great way to have full cloud email, and full website facilities backed up by Google. How to make money from it? Well, there are a few ways 1) I usually create the sites for free for people and openly tell them it is only 15 - 30 minutes work. Sometimes they throw me ?50 or ?100 which is nice pocket money when it comes. They they manage the site from there. 2) Sometimes when people have no desire to manage the site at all, I set a small fee to do the whole lot for them, but I always tell them inadvance they can do it themselves if they wish. I still only create four or five pages sites and I KISS. 3) As expected when you give away time for free as I have done with google apps, they then come back a month or more later asking for a database system to be built, and this is where I make my real money. In summary: As a free tool, Google apps really fills a need in the market. If we charge ?500 per site we take away the neatness of the the free solution. So I like to leave it as a free solution and charge down the line or one the site for the service I provide. I have also ran some "Build your own website" courses for a small local organisation where I insist that they will have a site up after two tough days. Because I do them for free, I do one or two per month, and because I do so many, I am not very fast at creating the site. To be honest, it does not really make me money, but I love to see people with a website running in the cloud for just the $10 is takes to register a domain. Is that any help? thanks Mark On 14 May 2010 00:28, Michael Maddison wrote: > Cant find a trial option and I'm not sure I should use my real domain to > try it out? > How much flexibility do you have with styles/laying out the pages? > 15 minutes??? I'll go broke :-( > > Cheers > > Michael > > > Hello Michael, > > I have set up about 100 sites now with Google apps, I can do them in > approx > 15 minutes if I have the content. > > It is free and you get the benefit of corporate quality email as well. > > Remember you need to select the Standard Edition as opposed to the > Premium > Edition. > > It has a list / table style template page which works well. > > Google Gadgets work really great also, especially the maps and you tube > integration > > HTH, > > Mark > > > On 13 May 2010 07:59, Gustav Brock wrote: > > > Hi Michael > > > > Or Google Apps: > > > > http://www.google.com/apps/intl/en/business/sites.html > > > > /gustav > > > > > > >>> michael at ddisolutions.com.au 13-05-2010 01:39 >>> > > Hi Guys, > > > > > > > > Just looking for some feedback. > > > > I've been asked to quote on a small website for a cattle stud. > > > > It's not a complex site but the user has asked for the ability to > > add/update beast stud info. He says he needs to do this once a year. > > > > I've used DNN before but it seems like overkill for this spec. > > > > Adding/removing maybe 10 entries a year. > > > > > > > > Any thoughts/recommendations? > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > > > Michael M > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2870 - Release Date: 05/13/10 > 04:26:00 > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From michael at ddisolutions.com.au Sat May 15 01:37:13 2010 From: michael at ddisolutions.com.au (Michael Maddison) Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 16:37:13 +1000 Subject: [dba-VB] Web project advice References: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B59E1@ddi-01.DDI.local> Message-ID: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B59ED@ddi-01.DDI.local> Hi Mark, Very interesting. I think I'll offer 3 choices... 1. Static site maintained at hourly rate. 2. Google option, setup at hourly rate that he can take over if he chooses. 3. DNN site, setup for fixed fee that he can take control of. Cheers Michael Hello Michael, You have two choices when you create a google apps site 1) use a previously created domain name that is not really currently being used for anything else 2) Allow Google and their domain registration partners (Go Daddy and Enum) to create a .com domain for you for $10 I usually prefer option 1 because it allows me to seperate out the management of the domain name and the domain hosting (the google bit). However the slight complication with option 1 is that you have to create the C Records and the MX Records yourself. If you have not done this previously, it can seem daunting, although in reality it is not difficult and there are loads of instructions out there. In Option 2 Google will do ahead and open a Go Daddy / Enum account for you, pay the 10 USD and then they will set the C Names and MX Records all automagically. This works a treat and is very slick. However, if you do not currently have a google account and if that Google account does not currently have payment facilities set up, you will have to do that as part of the process. This can take the shine off the slickness, but once it is done, option 2 is slick. So, assuming you have chosen Option 1 or 2, the total cost now of playing with Google Apps is ?10 for the domain registration. I customarily create domains and sometimes forget about them once I have tested a particular point. I frequently register domains with names such as www.test14052010.com As Gustav will probably agree, Google Apps is an incredible solution for free, the email facilities alone are great and for small businesses that was to pay just $10 per year for their domain registration, this is a great way to have full cloud email, and full website facilities backed up by Google. How to make money from it? Well, there are a few ways 1) I usually create the sites for free for people and openly tell them it is only 15 - 30 minutes work. Sometimes they throw me ?50 or ?100 which is nice pocket money when it comes. They they manage the site from there. 2) Sometimes when people have no desire to manage the site at all, I set a small fee to do the whole lot for them, but I always tell them inadvance they can do it themselves if they wish. I still only create four or five pages sites and I KISS. 3) As expected when you give away time for free as I have done with google apps, they then come back a month or more later asking for a database system to be built, and this is where I make my real money. In summary: As a free tool, Google apps really fills a need in the market. If we charge ?500 per site we take away the neatness of the the free solution. So I like to leave it as a free solution and charge down the line or one the site for the service I provide. I have also ran some "Build your own website" courses for a small local organisation where I insist that they will have a site up after two tough days. Because I do them for free, I do one or two per month, and because I do so many, I am not very fast at creating the site. To be honest, it does not really make me money, but I love to see people with a website running in the cloud for just the $10 is takes to register a domain. Is that any help? thanks Mark On 14 May 2010 00:28, Michael Maddison wrote: > Cant find a trial option and I'm not sure I should use my real domain to > try it out? > How much flexibility do you have with styles/laying out the pages? > 15 minutes??? I'll go broke :-( > > Cheers > > Michael > > > Hello Michael, > > I have set up about 100 sites now with Google apps, I can do them in > approx > 15 minutes if I have the content. > > It is free and you get the benefit of corporate quality email as well. > > Remember you need to select the Standard Edition as opposed to the > Premium > Edition. > > It has a list / table style template page which works well. > > Google Gadgets work really great also, especially the maps and you tube > integration > > HTH, > > Mark > > > On 13 May 2010 07:59, Gustav Brock wrote: > > > Hi Michael > > > > Or Google Apps: > > > > http://www.google.com/apps/intl/en/business/sites.html > > > > /gustav > > > > > > >>> michael at ddisolutions.com.au 13-05-2010 01:39 >>> > > Hi Guys, > > > > > > > > Just looking for some feedback. > > > > I've been asked to quote on a small website for a cattle stud. > > > > It's not a complex site but the user has asked for the ability to > > add/update beast stud info. He says he needs to do this once a year. > > > > I've used DNN before but it seems like overkill for this spec. > > > > Adding/removing maybe 10 entries a year. > > > > > > > > Any thoughts/recommendations? > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > > > Michael M > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2870 - Release Date: 05/13/10 > 04:26:00 > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2870 - Release Date: 05/14/10 04:26:00 From Johncliviger at aol.com Sat May 15 13:41:16 2010 From: Johncliviger at aol.com (Johncliviger at aol.com) Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 14:41:16 EDT Subject: [dba-VB] Moving controls at runtime Message-ID: <34d99.5d67fb2.392044cc@aol.com> Cheers William, I've seen it, I'll come back in a days or so. regards john cliviger From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Sat May 15 15:08:59 2010 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 16:08:59 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Moving controls at runtime In-Reply-To: <34d99.5d67fb2.392044cc@aol.com> References: <34d99.5d67fb2.392044cc@aol.com> Message-ID: John ...I failed to note that you are working in VB.net ...I get dba-VB and AccessD in the same in box and just assumed you were working in Access William -------------------------------------------------- From: Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2010 2:41 PM To: Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Moving controls at runtime > Cheers William, I've seen it, I'll come back in a days or so. > > regards > > john cliviger > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From marklbreen at gmail.com Mon May 17 07:11:19 2010 From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 13:11:19 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Web project advice In-Reply-To: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B59ED@ddi-01.DDI.local> References: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B59E1@ddi-01.DDI.local> <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B59ED@ddi-01.DDI.local> Message-ID: Hello Michael, I have been using powerDNN for DNN hosting and find them to be good. And they have SQL 2008 which is great as many still run SQL 2005. Do you do much with DNN? Mark On 15 May 2010 07:37, Michael Maddison wrote: > Hi Mark, > > Very interesting. > > I think I'll offer 3 choices... > 1. Static site maintained at hourly rate. > 2. Google option, setup at hourly rate that he can take over if he > chooses. > 3. DNN site, setup for fixed fee that he can take control of. > > Cheers > > Michael > > Hello Michael, > > You have two choices when you create a google apps site > > 1) use a previously created domain name that is not really currently being > used for anything else > 2) Allow Google and their domain registration partners (Go Daddy and Enum) > to create a .com domain for you for $10 > > I usually prefer option 1 because it allows me to seperate out the > management of the domain name and the domain hosting (the google bit). > However the slight complication with option 1 is that you have to create > the C Records and the MX Records yourself. If you have not done this > previously, it can seem daunting, although in reality it is not difficult > and there are loads of instructions out there. > > In Option 2 Google will do ahead and open a Go Daddy / Enum account for > you, > pay the 10 USD and then they will set the C Names and MX Records all > automagically. This works a treat and is very slick. However, if you do > not currently have a google account and if that Google account does not > currently have payment facilities set up, you will have to do that as part > of the process. This can take the shine off the slickness, but once it is > done, option 2 is slick. > > So, assuming you have chosen Option 1 or 2, the total cost now of playing > with Google Apps is ?10 for the domain registration. I customarily create > domains and sometimes forget about them once I have tested a particular > point. I frequently register domains with names such as > www.test14052010.com > > As Gustav will probably agree, Google Apps is an incredible solution for > free, the email facilities alone are great and for small businesses that > was > to pay just $10 per year for their domain registration, this is a great way > to have full cloud email, and full website facilities backed up by Google. > > > How to make money from it? > > Well, there are a few ways > > 1) I usually create the sites for free for people and openly tell them it > is > only 15 - 30 minutes work. Sometimes they throw me ?50 or ?100 which is > nice pocket money when it comes. They they manage the site from there. > 2) Sometimes when people have no desire to manage the site at all, I set a > small fee to do the whole lot for them, but I always tell them inadvance > they can do it themselves if they wish. I still only create four or five > pages sites and I KISS. > 3) As expected when you give away time for free as I have done with google > apps, they then come back a month or more later asking for a database > system > to be built, and this is where I make my real money. > > > In summary: As a free tool, Google apps really fills a need in the market. > If we charge ?500 per site we take away the neatness of the the free > solution. So I like to leave it as a free solution and charge down the > line > or one the site for the service I provide. > > I have also ran some "Build your own website" courses for a small local > organisation where I insist that they will have a site up after two tough > days. Because I do them for free, I do one or two per month, and because I > do so many, I am not very fast at creating the site. > > To be honest, it does not really make me money, but I love to see people > with a website running in the cloud for just the $10 is takes to register a > domain. > > Is that any help? > > thanks > > Mark > > > > > On 14 May 2010 00:28, Michael Maddison > wrote: > > > Cant find a trial option and I'm not sure I should use my real domain to > > try it out? > > How much flexibility do you have with styles/laying out the pages? > > 15 minutes??? I'll go broke :-( > > > > Cheers > > > > Michael > > > > > > Hello Michael, > > > > I have set up about 100 sites now with Google apps, I can do them in > > approx > > 15 minutes if I have the content. > > > > It is free and you get the benefit of corporate quality email as well. > > > > Remember you need to select the Standard Edition as opposed to the > > Premium > > Edition. > > > > It has a list / table style template page which works well. > > > > Google Gadgets work really great also, especially the maps and you tube > > integration > > > > HTH, > > > > Mark > > > > > > On 13 May 2010 07:59, Gustav Brock wrote: > > > > > Hi Michael > > > > > > Or Google Apps: > > > > > > http://www.google.com/apps/intl/en/business/sites.html > > > > > > /gustav > > > > > > > > > >>> michael at ddisolutions.com.au 13-05-2010 01:39 >>> > > > Hi Guys, > > > > > > > > > > > > Just looking for some feedback. > > > > > > I've been asked to quote on a small website for a cattle stud. > > > > > > It's not a complex site but the user has asked for the ability to > > > add/update beast stud info. He says he needs to do this once a year. > > > > > > I've used DNN before but it seems like overkill for this spec. > > > > > > Adding/removing maybe 10 entries a year. > > > > > > > > > > > > Any thoughts/recommendations? > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > > > > > > > Michael M > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > dba-VB mailing list > > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > dba-VB mailing list > > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2870 - Release Date: 05/13/10 > > 04:26:00 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2870 - Release Date: 05/14/10 > 04:26:00 > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon May 17 08:18:52 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 09:18:52 -0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Web project advice In-Reply-To: References: <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B59E1@ddi-01.DDI.local> <59A61174B1F5B54B97FD4ADDE71E7D016B59ED@ddi-01.DDI.local> Message-ID: <4BF1423C.50806@colbyconsulting.com> I have just moved to PowerDNN as well. Because I am so new there I have no comment yet, other than their servers are FAST and RELIABLE. My old hosting company had at a half hour every couple of days downtime, whereas PowerDNN does not. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Mark Breen wrote: > Hello Michael, > > I have been using powerDNN for DNN hosting and find them to be good. And > they have SQL 2008 which is great as many still run SQL 2005. > > Do you do much with DNN? > > Mark From Johncliviger at aol.com Tue May 18 03:57:33 2010 From: Johncliviger at aol.com (Johncliviger at aol.com) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 04:57:33 EDT Subject: [dba-VB] Moving controls at runtime Message-ID: <4ea38.7dc5a47.3923b07d@aol.com> Hi William No problem! I work with both. I've never had the need to move controls in Access but now I've seen this little gem of yours it's given me an idea for a db enhancement. I'll come back to you later. Thanks for the assistance regards john cliviger From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue May 18 08:36:06 2010 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 15:36:06 +0200 Subject: [dba-VB] MAPS: Microsoft Action Pack Subscription Development and Design Benefits Message-ID: Hi all As of May 24. the development tools - most importantly Visual Studio 2010 Professional - is now part of a separate package dedicated developers: Microsoft Action Pack Development and Design Benefits https://partner.microsoft.com/global/program/managemembership/40133000 Three MSDN for Microsoft Action Pack Development and Design subscriptions (licensed per user): Microsoft Visual Studio 2010 Professional Microsoft Expression Web The latest version of the Windows and Windows Server operating systems, and Microsoft SQL Server for development and testing You still have to pass some "test" every second year: https://partner.microsoft.com/global/40132997 /gustav >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 18-01-2008 09:10 >>> Hi all Well, this is on schedule. Today an envelope arrived including these cd-roms: Microsoft Visual Studio 2008 Standard Edition Microsoft Expression Studio and a DVD: Custom Web Development Jumpstart and Windows Live Partner Resources Kit Also, I received 2 GB of ram for my laptop. Do we have a match? /gustav >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 04-12-2007 18:06:22 >>> Hi all Received this today: Our records indicate .. that you are eligible to order the Microsoft Web Solutions Toolkit. You will automatically be shipped the Web Solutions Toolkit in January 2008. /gustav >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 10-10-2007 10:09:07 >>> Hi all We (my employer and I) don't want to spend money on the "MS exam circus" as the ROI is zero. Thus, our official Small Business Specialist status will be lost (and our clients don't care as they hardly knew that anyway). No big deal. However, that status have the additional benefit that combined with the Action Pack Subscription (where the ROI is huge) you are offered Visual Studio Standard 2005 for free. So no SB partner => no free VS which is bad now that VS2008 is close. But a new free add-on to the Action Pack is now announced which could be of interest for those of you not having Visual Studio yet or have felt the limitations of the free Express editions, a "special edition toolkit" for Web Solution Providers: https://partner.microsoft.com/webresourcekit It includes Microsoft Visual Studio Standard 2008 and Expression Studio. The estimated ship date for the kit is January 2008. One of the steps to obtain the kit is to: Successfully complete one of three free online courses and the associated assessment with a score of 70 percent or higher .. These seems to have a duration from 0,5 to 1,5 hours, so you have to pay by spending some of your valuable time! /gustav From marklbreen at gmail.com Wed May 19 04:02:30 2010 From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen) Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 10:02:30 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Microsoft Bizspark - Was MAPS: Microsoft Action Pack.... Message-ID: Hello All, Sorry for changing the subject line, but it is a slightly different subject. Have you all heard of Microsoft Bizspark ? When I heard of it I thought that it was too good to be true. My Brother - in - Law signed up to it. I eventually submitted a request myself and voila, I was accepted and I now have three years of full MSDN access and have to pay $100 when I leave in three years time. Read the requirements carefully, and talk to a local partner for advice so as to optimize your application. As I type I have office 2010 installed on my machine and VS2010 waiting to be installed! AFAICS, this program trumps everything that MS has to offer - its virtually free and once you are accepted it lasts three years. Good Luck, Mark On 18 May 2010 16:25, Rocky Smolin wrote: > I see it now. Too early I guess. Missed it. Thanks. > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos > Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 7:56 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] MAPS: Microsoft Action Pack > SubscriptionDevelopmentand Design Benefits > > You don't have access to google? ;-) > > A search on "microsoft action pack subscription cost" > > and the first link listed..... > https://partner.microsoft.com/40016455 > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > The Microsoft Action Pack Subscription download-only version today costs > $299 plus tax, per year. If you would also like to receive physical media, > the price is $498 plus tax, per year. If you opt in for physical media in > the middle of your annual subscription period, the additional cost will be > assessed on a prorated basis. > Starting May 24, 2010, we will provide enhanced benefits to Action Pack > Solution Provider. The download-only version will cost $329 plus tax, per > year. If you would also like to receive physical media, the new price will > be $429 plus tax, per year. > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > GK > > On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 9:17 AM, Rocky Smolin > wrote: > > Gustav: > > > > I looked at the site but couldn't find a price. Do you know how much > > the Action Pack is now? I took a test a while back to re-enroll but > > never got the Pack. > > > > TIA > > > > Rocky > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav > > Brock > > Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 6:36 AM > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com; dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: [AccessD] MAPS: Microsoft Action Pack Subscription > > Developmentand Design Benefits > > > > Hi all > > > > As of May 24. the development tools - most importantly Visual Studio > > 2010 Professional - is now part of a separate package dedicated > developers: > > > > Microsoft Action Pack Development and Design Benefits > > https://partner.microsoft.com/global/program/managemembership/40133000 > > > > Three MSDN for Microsoft Action Pack Development and Design > > subscriptions (licensed per user): > > Microsoft Visual Studio 2010 Professional > > Microsoft Expression Web > > The latest version of the Windows and Windows Server operating > > systems, and Microsoft SQL Server for development and testing > > > > You still have to pass some "test" every second year: > > https://partner.microsoft.com/global/40132997 > > > > /gustav > > > > > >>>> Gustav at cactus.dk 18-01-2008 09:10 >>> > > Hi all > > > > Well, this is on schedule. Today an envelope arrived including these > > cd-roms: > > > > Microsoft Visual Studio 2008 Standard Edition > > Microsoft Expression Studio > > > > and a DVD: > > > > Custom Web Development Jumpstart > > and Windows Live Partner Resources Kit > > > > Also, I received 2 GB of ram for my laptop. Do we have a match? > > > > /gustav > > > >>>> Gustav at cactus.dk 04-12-2007 18:06:22 >>> > > Hi all > > > > Received this today: > > > > Our records indicate .. that you are eligible to order the Microsoft > > Web Solutions Toolkit. > > You will automatically be shipped the Web Solutions Toolkit in January > 2008. > > > > > > /gustav > > > > > >>>> Gustav at cactus.dk 10-10-2007 10:09:07 >>> > > Hi all > > > > We (my employer and I) don't want to spend money on the "MS exam > > circus" as the ROI is zero. Thus, our official Small Business > > Specialist status will be lost (and our clients don't care as they > > hardly knew that anyway). No big deal. > > > > However, that status have the additional benefit that combined with > > the Action Pack Subscription (where the ROI is huge) you are offered > > Visual Studio Standard 2005 for free. So no SB partner => no free VS > > which is bad now that VS2008 is close. > > > > But a new free add-on to the Action Pack is now announced which could > > be of interest for those of you not having Visual Studio yet or have > > felt the limitations of the free Express editions, a "special edition > > toolkit" for Web Solution Providers: > > > > https://partner.microsoft.com/webresourcekit > > > > It includes Microsoft Visual Studio Standard 2008 and Expression Studio. > > The estimated ship date for the kit is January 2008. > > > > One of the steps to obtain the kit is to: > > > > Successfully complete one of three free online courses and the > > associated assessment with a score of 70 percent or higher .. > > > > These seems to have a duration from 0,5 to 1,5 hours, so you have to > > pay by spending some of your valuable time! > > > > /gustav > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > Gary Kjos > garykjos at gmail.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Wed May 19 09:54:47 2010 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 07:54:47 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Parallelism In-Reply-To: References: <34FFB67A32A64A85A1D61422E34D40CE@creativesystemdesigns.com> <73FC6395D2CA47639932C5A5B5204FEE@creativesystemdesigns.com> <3E23E4865861413788D4FD433E981005@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4A52241149474D76AA93A21F31C31BDA@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi All: A couple of nights ago, I went to a series of lectures given by a fellow named Tiberiu Covaci, Swedish owner of a company called Multi-Core and he is now doing a tour as a trainer for Microsoft. (His next lecture stop will be in New Orleans.) His training lecture was on Parallelism. The first lecture covered the basic concepts of computers and their new multi-core design, a design made necessary as single core computers ran into the physical wall as of 2005. He then went on to describe the attempts by developers to utilize these new multi-core systems. It has been a slow process as you can imagine. The rudimentary attempts of threading and hyper-threading were far from successful. First a single thread will consume up to 200 cycles just to get substantiated and its deployment still requires the central CPU and to spawn hundreds of threads, in a pool and then there was the issues of synchronizing the process results. Even the best developed multi-threaded applications, like MS SQL 2005 could over-load a computer when challenged by a heavy duty task. MS even went so far as to apply a system lock when performing resource heavy jobs... that means all other functionality on the server would cease... no multi-tasking, until the job was completed... even then sometimes a process would freeze up a server. (We have all heard of that exact situation from a number of our DBA members.) Our lecturer had designed a couple of short programs to showed how multi-threading was implemented and then demonstrated how these apps when over-loaded would crash or lock out the system. He used a Quick-sort, demo while splitting it into multiple pieces, multi-threading it and slowly increasing the sort data showed a 30 percent gain per thread and a 70 percent gain per core (maximum gain) but it also showed virtually not performance loss as the data increased (10 to 100 million records) until the process locked up the CPU. We watched the system progress via the Task Manger's CPU display. Lecture two; enter Parallelism. This process has being developed on the latest versions of Java and .Net frame work (4 or greater). He demonstrated two new core features/objects Parallel and Task. Using Parallelism requires a bit to decompose a problem into its components. He used an example of a recipe where a number of steps was required from initial preparation, to the cooking and to the table. The program which ended calculating the time was initially designed in a standard C# routine. The app was then recoded using Parallel running tasks. Each task can run independently, but wait for a process to be completed if required by scheduling, monitoring a semaphore, event, state and/or wait loops. We also covered how to handle synchronization, data sharing and how to avoid deadlocks. By using pararllelism the meal was completed in half the time... It showed how 6 people could do a job faster than one... now that's obvious but maybe not so obvious with a computer application. The most telling observation was when viewing the Task Manger's CPU display. No matter how heavy the requirements that were imposed on the system, the CPU demand remained very low and flat and each core showed an even distribution of utilization. I was totally impressed. Now I know how such super databases as Cassandra, using Java Parallelism works. My suggestion to all those of you using MS SQL 2005 or less; "Bail out quick and get you hands on the latest MS SQL... there will be no comparison in performance." A couple of recommended books on the subject are: "Patterns of Parallel Processing" and "Concurrent Programming on Windows" The latest .Net has all these features built in...just ready to use. Jim From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Wed May 19 16:08:02 2010 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 01:08:02 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Parallelism In-Reply-To: <4A52241149474D76AA93A21F31C31BDA@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <34FFB67A32A64A85A1D61422E34D40CE@creativesystemdesigns.com><73FC6395D2CA47639932C5A5B5204FEE@creativesystemdesigns.com><3E23E4865861413788D4FD433E981005@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4A52241149474D76AA93A21F31C31BDA@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <000a01caf797$5f4ffb40$6501a8c0@nant> Hi Jim -- Yes, multi-threaded apps development is a very interesting and useful stuff: I do actively use multi-thereading in my customers' real life 24x7x365 .NET applications, but I still have a lot to learn/to do (and that learning by doing promise to last forever :)) - the only thing I can say for sure now is that multi-threading development is at least a matter of magnitude more complicated and time consuming than a "mere" conventional single-threaded apps development. Hopefully the new MS technologies - .NET Framework, C# 4.0 and PLINQ will help to lower this complexity a bit(?)... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 6:55 PM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'; 'Discussion concerning MS SQL Server'; dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] Parallelism Hi All: A couple of nights ago, I went to a series of lectures given by a fellow named Tiberiu Covaci, Swedish owner of a company called Multi-Core and he is now doing a tour as a trainer for Microsoft. (His next lecture stop will be in New Orleans.) His training lecture was on Parallelism. The first lecture covered the basic concepts of computers and their new multi-core design, a design made necessary as single core computers ran into the physical wall as of 2005. He then went on to describe the attempts by developers to utilize these new multi-core systems. It has been a slow process as you can imagine. The rudimentary attempts of threading and hyper-threading were far from successful. First a single thread will consume up to 200 cycles just to get substantiated and its deployment still requires the central CPU and to spawn hundreds of threads, in a pool and then there was the issues of synchronizing the process results. Even the best developed multi-threaded applications, like MS SQL 2005 could over-load a computer when challenged by a heavy duty task. MS even went so far as to apply a system lock when performing resource heavy jobs... that means all other functionality on the server would cease... no multi-tasking, until the job was completed... even then sometimes a process would freeze up a server. (We have all heard of that exact situation from a number of our DBA members.) Our lecturer had designed a couple of short programs to showed how multi-threading was implemented and then demonstrated how these apps when over-loaded would crash or lock out the system. He used a Quick-sort, demo while splitting it into multiple pieces, multi-threading it and slowly increasing the sort data showed a 30 percent gain per thread and a 70 percent gain per core (maximum gain) but it also showed virtually not performance loss as the data increased (10 to 100 million records) until the process locked up the CPU. We watched the system progress via the Task Manger's CPU display. Lecture two; enter Parallelism. This process has being developed on the latest versions of Java and .Net frame work (4 or greater). He demonstrated two new core features/objects Parallel and Task. Using Parallelism requires a bit to decompose a problem into its components. He used an example of a recipe where a number of steps was required from initial preparation, to the cooking and to the table. The program which ended calculating the time was initially designed in a standard C# routine. The app was then recoded using Parallel running tasks. Each task can run independently, but wait for a process to be completed if required by scheduling, monitoring a semaphore, event, state and/or wait loops. We also covered how to handle synchronization, data sharing and how to avoid deadlocks. By using pararllelism the meal was completed in half the time... It showed how 6 people could do a job faster than one... now that's obvious but maybe not so obvious with a computer application. The most telling observation was when viewing the Task Manger's CPU display. No matter how heavy the requirements that were imposed on the system, the CPU demand remained very low and flat and each core showed an even distribution of utilization. I was totally impressed. Now I know how such super databases as Cassandra, using Java Parallelism works. My suggestion to all those of you using MS SQL 2005 or less; "Bail out quick and get you hands on the latest MS SQL... there will be no comparison in performance." A couple of recommended books on the subject are: "Patterns of Parallel Processing" and "Concurrent Programming on Windows" The latest .Net has all these features built in...just ready to use. Jim _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed May 19 16:49:37 2010 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 14:49:37 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Parallelism In-Reply-To: <000a01caf797$5f4ffb40$6501a8c0@nant> References: <34FFB67A32A64A85A1D61422E34D40CE@creativesystemdesigns.com> <73FC6395D2CA47639932C5A5B5204FEE@creativesystemdesigns.com> <3E23E4865861413788D4FD433E981005@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4A52241149474D76AA93A21F31C31BDA@creativesystemdesigns.com> <000a01caf797$5f4ffb40$6501a8c0@nant> Message-ID: <1C9DD9C7D00C4033867EC6E149EEC34C@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Shamil: Please note that the lecturer gave a very strict line of difference between multi-threaded applications and the new Parallelism... they are very different in coding, deployment and performance. It now appears that the preparation of coding will now take twice as long but it appears to be the only way to be able to get full performance from our new multi-cored computers. I understand that some Linux systems manage the Parallelism within their kernels so a new application may not see as great as performance advantage as on a Windows OS... but some List members may have far greater insight, on this subject, than I do. I had previously sent an email to Tiberiu Covaci asking for some clarification on the points and differences and as soon as I hear a reply, I will share that information. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 2:08 PM To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.' Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Parallelism Hi Jim -- Yes, multi-threaded apps development is a very interesting and useful stuff: I do actively use multi-thereading in my customers' real life 24x7x365 .NET applications, but I still have a lot to learn/to do (and that learning by doing promise to last forever :)) - the only thing I can say for sure now is that multi-threading development is at least a matter of magnitude more complicated and time consuming than a "mere" conventional single-threaded apps development. Hopefully the new MS technologies - .NET Framework, C# 4.0 and PLINQ will help to lower this complexity a bit(?)... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 6:55 PM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'; 'Discussion concerning MS SQL Server'; dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] Parallelism Hi All: A couple of nights ago, I went to a series of lectures given by a fellow named Tiberiu Covaci, Swedish owner of a company called Multi-Core and he is now doing a tour as a trainer for Microsoft. (His next lecture stop will be in New Orleans.) His training lecture was on Parallelism. The first lecture covered the basic concepts of computers and their new multi-core design, a design made necessary as single core computers ran into the physical wall as of 2005. He then went on to describe the attempts by developers to utilize these new multi-core systems. It has been a slow process as you can imagine. The rudimentary attempts of threading and hyper-threading were far from successful. First a single thread will consume up to 200 cycles just to get substantiated and its deployment still requires the central CPU and to spawn hundreds of threads, in a pool and then there was the issues of synchronizing the process results. Even the best developed multi-threaded applications, like MS SQL 2005 could over-load a computer when challenged by a heavy duty task. MS even went so far as to apply a system lock when performing resource heavy jobs... that means all other functionality on the server would cease... no multi-tasking, until the job was completed... even then sometimes a process would freeze up a server. (We have all heard of that exact situation from a number of our DBA members.) Our lecturer had designed a couple of short programs to showed how multi-threading was implemented and then demonstrated how these apps when over-loaded would crash or lock out the system. He used a Quick-sort, demo while splitting it into multiple pieces, multi-threading it and slowly increasing the sort data showed a 30 percent gain per thread and a 70 percent gain per core (maximum gain) but it also showed virtually not performance loss as the data increased (10 to 100 million records) until the process locked up the CPU. We watched the system progress via the Task Manger's CPU display. Lecture two; enter Parallelism. This process has being developed on the latest versions of Java and .Net frame work (4 or greater). He demonstrated two new core features/objects Parallel and Task. Using Parallelism requires a bit to decompose a problem into its components. He used an example of a recipe where a number of steps was required from initial preparation, to the cooking and to the table. The program which ended calculating the time was initially designed in a standard C# routine. The app was then recoded using Parallel running tasks. Each task can run independently, but wait for a process to be completed if required by scheduling, monitoring a semaphore, event, state and/or wait loops. We also covered how to handle synchronization, data sharing and how to avoid deadlocks. By using pararllelism the meal was completed in half the time... It showed how 6 people could do a job faster than one... now that's obvious but maybe not so obvious with a computer application. The most telling observation was when viewing the Task Manger's CPU display. No matter how heavy the requirements that were imposed on the system, the CPU demand remained very low and flat and each core showed an even distribution of utilization. I was totally impressed. Now I know how such super databases as Cassandra, using Java Parallelism works. My suggestion to all those of you using MS SQL 2005 or less; "Bail out quick and get you hands on the latest MS SQL... there will be no comparison in performance." A couple of recommended books on the subject are: "Patterns of Parallel Processing" and "Concurrent Programming on Windows" The latest .Net has all these features built in...just ready to use. Jim _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Sat May 22 14:43:46 2010 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Sat, 22 May 2010 23:43:46 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Parallelism In-Reply-To: <1C9DD9C7D00C4033867EC6E149EEC34C@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <34FFB67A32A64A85A1D61422E34D40CE@creativesystemdesigns.com><73FC6395D2CA47639932C5A5B5204FEE@creativesystemdesigns.com><3E23E4865861413788D4FD433E981005@creativesystemdesigns.com><4A52241149474D76AA93A21F31C31BDA@creativesystemdesigns.com><000a01caf797$5f4ffb40$6501a8c0@nant> <1C9DD9C7D00C4033867EC6E149EEC34C@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <114E8EB89D7E4498B14A6E84FA27EF84@nant> Hi Jim -- Thank you for your remark. Yes, I suppose I do realize the difference between multi-threading and Parallelism. And I suppose I do use both here in my everyday development: - Parallelism can be implemented by using multi-threading (long running threads usually performing conceptually different tasks) but it can be also implemented by running independent processes... - Multi-threading is usually treated as multiple short-living threads/-sub-processes running within one process, and often performing conceptually the same tasks, at least most of the threads of a multi-threaded application... Both Parallelism and Multi-threading can be implemented on one CPU provided independent processes or threads have some waiting/idle time - waiting for some external events to happen/tasks to be processed - that concept exists since IBM 360 MFT OS times (early 60-ies?)... Both Parallelism and Multi-Threading are getting mainstream nowadays when one process, which can't be "paralleled" on one CPU system because it has no "external events" to wait, can now be split into several sub-processes/threads to be scheduled to run on several CPUs/cores available within one computer - that's new for mass market PCs, but this concept of Parallelism/multi-threading is rather old coming from supercomputers - CRAY and CDC there, and Elbrus here (also 60ies AFAIKR)... Please correct me if I'm wrong. What's so new with "the new Parallelism" you mentioned? What am I missing? - Let's define this discussion thread context: I do not mention "neural networks" and "clouds" here - we are talking within context of one physical unit having several CPUs/cores and controlled by one operation system instance, correct?... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 1:50 AM To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.' Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Parallelism Hi Shamil: Please note that the lecturer gave a very strict line of difference between multi-threaded applications and the new Parallelism... they are very different in coding, deployment and performance. It now appears that the preparation of coding will now take twice as long but it appears to be the only way to be able to get full performance from our new multi-cored computers. I understand that some Linux systems manage the Parallelism within their kernels so a new application may not see as great as performance advantage as on a Windows OS... but some List members may have far greater insight, on this subject, than I do. I had previously sent an email to Tiberiu Covaci asking for some clarification on the points and differences and as soon as I hear a reply, I will share that information. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 2:08 PM To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.' Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Parallelism Hi Jim -- Yes, multi-threaded apps development is a very interesting and useful stuff: I do actively use multi-thereading in my customers' real life 24x7x365 .NET applications, but I still have a lot to learn/to do (and that learning by doing promise to last forever :)) - the only thing I can say for sure now is that multi-threading development is at least a matter of magnitude more complicated and time consuming than a "mere" conventional single-threaded apps development. Hopefully the new MS technologies - .NET Framework, C# 4.0 and PLINQ will help to lower this complexity a bit(?)... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 6:55 PM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'; 'Discussion concerning MS SQL Server'; dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] Parallelism Hi All: A couple of nights ago, I went to a series of lectures given by a fellow named Tiberiu Covaci, Swedish owner of a company called Multi-Core and he is now doing a tour as a trainer for Microsoft. (His next lecture stop will be in New Orleans.) His training lecture was on Parallelism. The first lecture covered the basic concepts of computers and their new multi-core design, a design made necessary as single core computers ran into the physical wall as of 2005. He then went on to describe the attempts by developers to utilize these new multi-core systems. It has been a slow process as you can imagine. The rudimentary attempts of threading and hyper-threading were far from successful. First a single thread will consume up to 200 cycles just to get substantiated and its deployment still requires the central CPU and to spawn hundreds of threads, in a pool and then there was the issues of synchronizing the process results. Even the best developed multi-threaded applications, like MS SQL 2005 could over-load a computer when challenged by a heavy duty task. MS even went so far as to apply a system lock when performing resource heavy jobs... that means all other functionality on the server would cease... no multi-tasking, until the job was completed... even then sometimes a process would freeze up a server. (We have all heard of that exact situation from a number of our DBA members.) Our lecturer had designed a couple of short programs to showed how multi-threading was implemented and then demonstrated how these apps when over-loaded would crash or lock out the system. He used a Quick-sort, demo while splitting it into multiple pieces, multi-threading it and slowly increasing the sort data showed a 30 percent gain per thread and a 70 percent gain per core (maximum gain) but it also showed virtually not performance loss as the data increased (10 to 100 million records) until the process locked up the CPU. We watched the system progress via the Task Manger's CPU display. Lecture two; enter Parallelism. This process has being developed on the latest versions of Java and .Net frame work (4 or greater). He demonstrated two new core features/objects Parallel and Task. Using Parallelism requires a bit to decompose a problem into its components. He used an example of a recipe where a number of steps was required from initial preparation, to the cooking and to the table. The program which ended calculating the time was initially designed in a standard C# routine. The app was then recoded using Parallel running tasks. Each task can run independently, but wait for a process to be completed if required by scheduling, monitoring a semaphore, event, state and/or wait loops. We also covered how to handle synchronization, data sharing and how to avoid deadlocks. By using pararllelism the meal was completed in half the time... It showed how 6 people could do a job faster than one... now that's obvious but maybe not so obvious with a computer application. The most telling observation was when viewing the Task Manger's CPU display. No matter how heavy the requirements that were imposed on the system, the CPU demand remained very low and flat and each core showed an even distribution of utilization. I was totally impressed. Now I know how such super databases as Cassandra, using Java Parallelism works. My suggestion to all those of you using MS SQL 2005 or less; "Bail out quick and get you hands on the latest MS SQL... there will be no comparison in performance." A couple of recommended books on the subject are: "Patterns of Parallel Processing" and "Concurrent Programming on Windows" The latest .Net has all these features built in...just ready to use. Jim _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sat May 22 17:04:15 2010 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 22 May 2010 15:04:15 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Parallelism In-Reply-To: <114E8EB89D7E4498B14A6E84FA27EF84@nant> References: <34FFB67A32A64A85A1D61422E34D40CE@creativesystemdesigns.com> <73FC6395D2CA47639932C5A5B5204FEE@creativesystemdesigns.com> <3E23E4865861413788D4FD433E981005@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4A52241149474D76AA93A21F31C31BDA@creativesystemdesigns.com> <000a01caf797$5f4ffb40$6501a8c0@nant> <1C9DD9C7D00C4033867EC6E149EEC34C@creativesystemdesigns.com> <114E8EB89D7E4498B14A6E84FA27EF84@nant> Message-ID: <7B2D6C891C63473CA06F71513D77F828@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Shamil: Since the first Unix system added the command 'Fork' there has been parallel processing... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fork_(operating_system) Yes, it could have very well been the 60's Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 12:44 PM To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.' Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Parallelism Hi Jim -- Thank you for your remark. Yes, I suppose I do realize the difference between multi-threading and Parallelism. And I suppose I do use both here in my everyday development: - Parallelism can be implemented by using multi-threading (long running threads usually performing conceptually different tasks) but it can be also implemented by running independent processes... - Multi-threading is usually treated as multiple short-living threads/-sub-processes running within one process, and often performing conceptually the same tasks, at least most of the threads of a multi-threaded application... Both Parallelism and Multi-threading can be implemented on one CPU provided independent processes or threads have some waiting/idle time - waiting for some external events to happen/tasks to be processed - that concept exists since IBM 360 MFT OS times (early 60-ies?)... Both Parallelism and Multi-Threading are getting mainstream nowadays when one process, which can't be "paralleled" on one CPU system because it has no "external events" to wait, can now be split into several sub-processes/threads to be scheduled to run on several CPUs/cores available within one computer - that's new for mass market PCs, but this concept of Parallelism/multi-threading is rather old coming from supercomputers - CRAY and CDC there, and Elbrus here (also 60ies AFAIKR)... Please correct me if I'm wrong. What's so new with "the new Parallelism" you mentioned? What am I missing? - Let's define this discussion thread context: I do not mention "neural networks" and "clouds" here - we are talking within context of one physical unit having several CPUs/cores and controlled by one operation system instance, correct?... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 1:50 AM To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.' Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Parallelism Hi Shamil: Please note that the lecturer gave a very strict line of difference between multi-threaded applications and the new Parallelism... they are very different in coding, deployment and performance. It now appears that the preparation of coding will now take twice as long but it appears to be the only way to be able to get full performance from our new multi-cored computers. I understand that some Linux systems manage the Parallelism within their kernels so a new application may not see as great as performance advantage as on a Windows OS... but some List members may have far greater insight, on this subject, than I do. I had previously sent an email to Tiberiu Covaci asking for some clarification on the points and differences and as soon as I hear a reply, I will share that information. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 2:08 PM To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.' Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Parallelism Hi Jim -- Yes, multi-threaded apps development is a very interesting and useful stuff: I do actively use multi-thereading in my customers' real life 24x7x365 .NET applications, but I still have a lot to learn/to do (and that learning by doing promise to last forever :)) - the only thing I can say for sure now is that multi-threading development is at least a matter of magnitude more complicated and time consuming than a "mere" conventional single-threaded apps development. Hopefully the new MS technologies - .NET Framework, C# 4.0 and PLINQ will help to lower this complexity a bit(?)... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 6:55 PM To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'; 'Discussion concerning MS SQL Server'; dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [dba-VB] Parallelism Hi All: A couple of nights ago, I went to a series of lectures given by a fellow named Tiberiu Covaci, Swedish owner of a company called Multi-Core and he is now doing a tour as a trainer for Microsoft. (His next lecture stop will be in New Orleans.) His training lecture was on Parallelism. The first lecture covered the basic concepts of computers and their new multi-core design, a design made necessary as single core computers ran into the physical wall as of 2005. He then went on to describe the attempts by developers to utilize these new multi-core systems. It has been a slow process as you can imagine. The rudimentary attempts of threading and hyper-threading were far from successful. First a single thread will consume up to 200 cycles just to get substantiated and its deployment still requires the central CPU and to spawn hundreds of threads, in a pool and then there was the issues of synchronizing the process results. Even the best developed multi-threaded applications, like MS SQL 2005 could over-load a computer when challenged by a heavy duty task. MS even went so far as to apply a system lock when performing resource heavy jobs... that means all other functionality on the server would cease... no multi-tasking, until the job was completed... even then sometimes a process would freeze up a server. (We have all heard of that exact situation from a number of our DBA members.) Our lecturer had designed a couple of short programs to showed how multi-threading was implemented and then demonstrated how these apps when over-loaded would crash or lock out the system. He used a Quick-sort, demo while splitting it into multiple pieces, multi-threading it and slowly increasing the sort data showed a 30 percent gain per thread and a 70 percent gain per core (maximum gain) but it also showed virtually not performance loss as the data increased (10 to 100 million records) until the process locked up the CPU. We watched the system progress via the Task Manger's CPU display. Lecture two; enter Parallelism. This process has being developed on the latest versions of Java and .Net frame work (4 or greater). He demonstrated two new core features/objects Parallel and Task. Using Parallelism requires a bit to decompose a problem into its components. He used an example of a recipe where a number of steps was required from initial preparation, to the cooking and to the table. The program which ended calculating the time was initially designed in a standard C# routine. The app was then recoded using Parallel running tasks. Each task can run independently, but wait for a process to be completed if required by scheduling, monitoring a semaphore, event, state and/or wait loops. We also covered how to handle synchronization, data sharing and how to avoid deadlocks. By using pararllelism the meal was completed in half the time... It showed how 6 people could do a job faster than one... now that's obvious but maybe not so obvious with a computer application. The most telling observation was when viewing the Task Manger's CPU display. No matter how heavy the requirements that were imposed on the system, the CPU demand remained very low and flat and each core showed an even distribution of utilization. I was totally impressed. Now I know how such super databases as Cassandra, using Java Parallelism works. My suggestion to all those of you using MS SQL 2005 or less; "Bail out quick and get you hands on the latest MS SQL... there will be no comparison in performance." A couple of recommended books on the subject are: "Patterns of Parallel Processing" and "Concurrent Programming on Windows" The latest .Net has all these features built in...just ready to use. Jim _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Sat May 22 18:28:55 2010 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Sun, 23 May 2010 03:28:55 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] Parallelism In-Reply-To: <7B2D6C891C63473CA06F71513D77F828@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <34FFB67A32A64A85A1D61422E34D40CE@creativesystemdesigns.com><73FC6395D2CA47639932C5A5B5204FEE@creativesystemdesigns.com><3E23E4865861413788D4FD433E981005@creativesystemdesigns.com><4A52241149474D76AA93A21F31C31BDA@creativesystemdesigns.com><000a01caf797$5f4ffb40$6501a8c0@nant><1C9DD9C7D00C4033867EC6E149EEC34C@creativesystemdesigns.com><114E8EB89D7E4498B14A6E84FA27EF84@nant> <7B2D6C891C63473CA06F71513D77F828@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Hi Jim -- Yes, "fork", but before that was IBM360, which has had special hardware and operation system software to handle Input/Output channels, multiplexing console input etc. - and when that special hardware has been working for input/output CPU was idle, and could have been used by other application processes - AFAIKR even PL/1 has had some function calls to start and handle long running "independent" threads within a running process/task, but starting an independent task that wasn't possible on application programs level (?) for IBM360 MFT and MVT OSes, and in mid-1970-ies, the next IBM OS, MVS, has got multi-processor systems support they say: well that all was very expensive that times of course and not broadly available as nowadays multi-core mass market computer systems but all nowadays Parallelism and Multi-Threading concepts were mainly developed during that "ancient" times: and then came MS and has been keeping us in "preemptive multitasking" "straitjacket" for almost 20 years - was that good, bad, necessary and inevitable MS-driven "moderation and control" for technology mass market to mature?... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 2:04 AM To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.' Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Parallelism Hi Shamil: Since the first Unix system added the command 'Fork' there has been parallel processing... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fork_(operating_system) Yes, it could have very well been the 60's Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 12:44 PM To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.' Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Parallelism Hi Jim -- Thank you for your remark. Yes, I suppose I do realize the difference between multi-threading and Parallelism. And I suppose I do use both here in my everyday development: - Parallelism can be implemented by using multi-threading (long running threads usually performing conceptually different tasks) but it can be also implemented by running independent processes... - Multi-threading is usually treated as multiple short-living threads/-sub-processes running within one process, and often performing conceptually the same tasks, at least most of the threads of a multi-threaded application... Both Parallelism and Multi-threading can be implemented on one CPU provided independent processes or threads have some waiting/idle time - waiting for some external events to happen/tasks to be processed - that concept exists since IBM 360 MFT OS times (early 60-ies?)... Both Parallelism and Multi-Threading are getting mainstream nowadays when one process, which can't be "paralleled" on one CPU system because it has no "external events" to wait, can now be split into several sub-processes/threads to be scheduled to run on several CPUs/cores available within one computer - that's new for mass market PCs, but this concept of Parallelism/multi-threading is rather old coming from supercomputers - CRAY and CDC there, and Elbrus here (also 60ies AFAIKR)... Please correct me if I'm wrong. What's so new with "the new Parallelism" you mentioned? What am I missing? - Let's define this discussion thread context: I do not mention "neural networks" and "clouds" here - we are talking within context of one physical unit having several CPUs/cores and controlled by one operation system instance, correct?... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 1:50 AM To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.' Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Parallelism Hi Shamil: Please note that the lecturer gave a very strict line of difference between multi-threaded applications and the new Parallelism... they are very different in coding, deployment and performance. It now appears that the preparation of coding will now take twice as long but it appears to be the only way to be able to get full performance from our new multi-cored computers. I understand that some Linux systems manage the Parallelism within their kernels so a new application may not see as great as performance advantage as on a Windows OS... but some List members may have far greater insight, on this subject, than I do. I had previously sent an email to Tiberiu Covaci asking for some clarification on the points and differences and as soon as I hear a reply, I will share that information. Jim <<< snip >>> From accessd at shaw.ca Sun May 23 12:00:34 2010 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sun, 23 May 2010 10:00:34 -0700 Subject: [dba-VB] Parallelism In-Reply-To: References: <34FFB67A32A64A85A1D61422E34D40CE@creativesystemdesigns.com> <73FC6395D2CA47639932C5A5B5204FEE@creativesystemdesigns.com> <3E23E4865861413788D4FD433E981005@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4A52241149474D76AA93A21F31C31BDA@creativesystemdesigns.com> <000a01caf797$5f4ffb40$6501a8c0@nant> <1C9DD9C7D00C4033867EC6E149EEC34C@creativesystemdesigns.com> <114E8EB89D7E4498B14A6E84FA27EF84@nant> <7B2D6C891C63473CA06F71513D77F828@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: The single-user, single-tasking system detuned from CPM and Unix called DOS... the one with the backward slash: "\"? I worked on that mini IBM 360, many years ago, along with the VAX-11/780 and PDP-11/70 (the whole Vax line is gone now but their virtual OS (the first production version of Unix and subsequently ATT UNIX and derivitives BSD and SCO), directory interface and structure was a fore-runner of all our current systems.) Linux systems in the interim have been our poor man's multi-tasking and multi-user system since 1994-1995. Even Mac have moved to a freeBSD core. Microsoft's desktop computers can be made multi-user with a few good hacks but that is not officially supported. There is so many different threading models but to my understanding real Parallelism (which appears to function as a load balancer, across CPU, threading model) can not be truly implemented on any computer but one with multi-cores and those systems, for the average user, have only been in the market since 2005-2006. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 4:29 PM To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.' Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Parallelism Hi Jim -- Yes, "fork", but before that was IBM360, which has had special hardware and operation system software to handle Input/Output channels, multiplexing console input etc. - and when that special hardware has been working for input/output CPU was idle, and could have been used by other application processes - AFAIKR even PL/1 has had some function calls to start and handle long running "independent" threads within a running process/task, but starting an independent task that wasn't possible on application programs level (?) for IBM360 MFT and MVT OSes, and in mid-1970-ies, the next IBM OS, MVS, has got multi-processor systems support they say: well that all was very expensive that times of course and not broadly available as nowadays multi-core mass market computer systems but all nowadays Parallelism and Multi-Threading concepts were mainly developed during that "ancient" times: and then came MS and has been keeping us in "preemptive multitasking" "straitjacket" for almost 20 years - was that good, bad, necessary and inevitable MS-driven "moderation and control" for technology mass market to mature?... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 2:04 AM To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.' Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Parallelism Hi Shamil: Since the first Unix system added the command 'Fork' there has been parallel processing... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fork_(operating_system) Yes, it could have very well been the 60's Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 12:44 PM To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.' Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Parallelism Hi Jim -- Thank you for your remark. Yes, I suppose I do realize the difference between multi-threading and Parallelism. And I suppose I do use both here in my everyday development: - Parallelism can be implemented by using multi-threading (long running threads usually performing conceptually different tasks) but it can be also implemented by running independent processes... - Multi-threading is usually treated as multiple short-living threads/-sub-processes running within one process, and often performing conceptually the same tasks, at least most of the threads of a multi-threaded application... Both Parallelism and Multi-threading can be implemented on one CPU provided independent processes or threads have some waiting/idle time - waiting for some external events to happen/tasks to be processed - that concept exists since IBM 360 MFT OS times (early 60-ies?)... Both Parallelism and Multi-Threading are getting mainstream nowadays when one process, which can't be "paralleled" on one CPU system because it has no "external events" to wait, can now be split into several sub-processes/threads to be scheduled to run on several CPUs/cores available within one computer - that's new for mass market PCs, but this concept of Parallelism/multi-threading is rather old coming from supercomputers - CRAY and CDC there, and Elbrus here (also 60ies AFAIKR)... Please correct me if I'm wrong. What's so new with "the new Parallelism" you mentioned? What am I missing? - Let's define this discussion thread context: I do not mention "neural networks" and "clouds" here - we are talking within context of one physical unit having several CPUs/cores and controlled by one operation system instance, correct?... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 1:50 AM To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.' Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Parallelism Hi Shamil: Please note that the lecturer gave a very strict line of difference between multi-threaded applications and the new Parallelism... they are very different in coding, deployment and performance. It now appears that the preparation of coding will now take twice as long but it appears to be the only way to be able to get full performance from our new multi-cored computers. I understand that some Linux systems manage the Parallelism within their kernels so a new application may not see as great as performance advantage as on a Windows OS... but some List members may have far greater insight, on this subject, than I do. I had previously sent an email to Tiberiu Covaci asking for some clarification on the points and differences and as soon as I hear a reply, I will share that information. Jim <<< snip >>> _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com