From mcp2004 at mail.ru Sun Dec 2 17:15:16 2012 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2012 03:15:16 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] =?utf-8?q?Create_and_Use_a_Virtual_Hard_Disk_on_Windows_?= =?utf-8?q?7_and_Windows_8?= Message-ID: <1354490116.610321240@f381.i.mail.ru> Hi All -- Do you use Virtual Hard Disks on real computers and on VMs as e.g. it is described in the following article: "Create and Use a Virtual Hard Disk on Windows 7" http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/ee872416.aspx ? ?I wonder wouldn't using virtual hard disks result in some (significant) performance hits especially when ?virtual hard disks will be shared on host computer to use them from VMs via "Map Network Drive" feature? Thank you. -- Shamil? From mcp2004 at mail.ru Sun Dec 2 17:20:38 2012 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2012 03:20:38 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] =?utf-8?q?Create_and_Use_a_Virtual_Hard_Disk_on_Windows_?= =?utf-8?q?7_and_Windows_8?= In-Reply-To: <1354490116.610321240@f381.i.mail.ru> References: <1354490116.610321240@f381.i.mail.ru> Message-ID: <1354490438.308612195@f314.mail.ru> Please ignore this message here - it will be posted in dba-Tech. Thank you. -- Shamil Mon 3 Dec 2012 03:15:16 ?? Salakhetdinov Shamil : > > > > > > Hi All -- > > Do you use Virtual Hard Disks on real computers and on VMs as e.g. it is described in the following article: > > "Create and Use a Virtual Hard Disk on Windows 7" > >http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/ee872416.aspx > > ? > > ?I wonder wouldn't using virtual hard disks result in some (significant) performance hits especially when ?virtual hard disks will be shared on host computer to use them from VMs via "Map Network Drive" feature? > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil? > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > >dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > From df.waters at comcast.net Sun Dec 2 17:32:06 2012 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2012 17:32:06 -0600 Subject: [dba-VB] Create and Use a Virtual Hard Disk on Windows 7 and Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <1354490116.610321240@f381.i.mail.ru> References: <1354490116.610321240@f381.i.mail.ru> Message-ID: <000c01cdd0e5$3de5a200$b9b0e600$@comcast.net> Hi Shamil, Just for fun I wanted to see how this would work. In the Computer Management screen, I right-clicked Disk Management and the only item on the menu was 'Help'. Hmmmmm ... I'm using W7 Pro. Dan -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2012 5:15 PM To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues. Subject: [dba-VB] Create and Use a Virtual Hard Disk on Windows 7 and Windows 8 Hi All -- Do you use Virtual Hard Disks on real computers and on VMs as e.g. it is described in the following article: "Create and Use a Virtual Hard Disk on Windows 7" http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/ee872416.aspx ? ?I wonder wouldn't using virtual hard disks result in some (significant) performance hits especially when ?virtual hard disks will be shared on host computer to use them from VMs via "Map Network Drive" feature? Thank you. -- Shamil? _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Dec 2 19:28:01 2012 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2012 20:28:01 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] [SPAM] Create and Use a Virtual Hard Disk on Windows 7 and Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <1354490116.610321240@f381.i.mail.ru> References: <1354490116.610321240@f381.i.mail.ru> Message-ID: <50BC0021.1010100@colbyconsulting.com> VHDs have been around forever. Back in 1990 I went for work as the (entire) test department for Stack Electronics, maker of Stacker data compression. The way that Stacker worked was to create a file which was mounted as a disk and then the driver wrote / read from the disk performing the compression as it did so. Obviously there is a performance hit as you manipulate the structures in the file to make it look like a disk however today we have so much processor power that the overhead is down in the mud. Look at compression in SQL Server, where they store compressed data in SQL Server objects - tables and indexes. It is actually read into memory in compressed form and then uncompressed as it is used. Yea, it uses processor power but the average server often just cruises along mostly unused. Is the average Windows 7 desktop user going to notice the overhead of reading and writing to a virtual disk? John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 12/2/2012 6:15 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > Hi All -- > > Do you use Virtual Hard Disks on real computers and on VMs as e.g. it is described in the following article: > > "Create and Use a Virtual Hard Disk on Windows 7" > http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/ee872416.aspx > > ? > > I wonder wouldn't using virtual hard disks result in some (significant) performance hits especially when virtual hard disks will be shared on host computer to use them from VMs via "Map Network Drive" feature? > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun Dec 2 21:36:06 2012 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2012 13:36:06 +1000 Subject: [dba-VB] [SPAM] Create and Use a Virtual Hard Disk on Windows 7 and Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <50BC0021.1010100@colbyconsulting.com> References: <1354490116.610321240@f381.i.mail.ru>, <50BC0021.1010100@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <50BC1E26.10967.150D0D66@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I did some testing a while ago with Access and VirtualBox. There was no appreciable difference when writing and reading large test datasets between Access running directly in Win 7 and running in a VirtualBox installation with a virtual HD. Certainly nothing a user would notice. Except in one instance where I created a new virtual machine and told it to create a "dyanically allocated" disk rather "fixed size" - that really slowed down the initial writes :-) -- Stuart On 2 Dec 2012 at 20:28, jwcolby wrote: > Is the average Windows 7 desktop user going to notice the overhead of reading and writing to a > virtual disk? > > John W. Colby > Colby Consulting > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Dec 3 04:17:19 2012 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2012 14:17:19 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] =?utf-8?q?=5BSPAM=5D_Create_and_Use_a_Virtual_Hard_Disk_?= =?utf-8?q?on_Windows_7_and_Windows_8?= In-Reply-To: <50BC1E26.10967.150D0D66@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <50BC0021.1010100@colbyconsulting.com> <1354490116.610321240@f381.i.mail.ru>, <50BC1E26.10967.150D0D66@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <1354529839.652366677@f158.mail.ru> Hi Stuart and John -- Thank you for your comments. Yes, I do remember MS DOS Stacker etc. but I have never used virtual hard disks in MS Windows: I have asked about performance hit because I have found that when setting a "map network drive" share from VM to a host PC virtual harddisk it takes some time even to create and save via notepad.exe a small text file. During that time notepad.exe becomes "frozen". When you restart VM with "map network drive" share automatically remapped then such a "performance hit side effect" disappears... Anyway I'm going to try using virtual hard disks to keep the source files and test databases for my customers projects... Thank you. -- Shamil Mon 3 Dec 2012 13:36:06 ?? "Stuart McLachlan" : > > > > >I did some testing a while ago with Access and VirtualBox. > > There was no appreciable difference when writing and reading large test datasets between > Access running directly in Win 7 and running in a VirtualBox installation with a virtual HD. > > Certainly nothing a user would notice. > > Except in one instance where I created a new virtual machine and told it to create a > "dyanically allocated" disk rather "fixed size" - that really slowed down the initial writes :-) > > > -- > Stuart > > On 2 Dec 2012 at 20:28, jwcolby wrote: > > > Is the average Windows 7 desktop user going to notice the overhead of reading and writing to a > > virtual disk? > > > > John W. Colby > > Colby Consulting > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > >dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Mon Dec 3 14:08:40 2012 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2012 15:08:40 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] [SPAM] Create and Use a Virtual Hard Disk on Windows 7 and Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <1354529839.652366677@f158.mail.ru> References: <50BC0021.1010100@colbyconsulting.com> <1354490116.610321240@f381.i.mail.ru> <50BC1E26.10967.150D0D66@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <1354529839.652366677@f158.mail.ru> Message-ID: Ok, maybe I am getting something absolutely wrong here, but I fail to comprehend the VM thing. It seems to me that given the plummeting price of hardware, VMs have no reason to exist. For example, all you need for a bitchin' Linux box or XP box or Windows 7 box is about $500 or less. Said box would run way faster than any VM, and if you have a KVM then you have about 4 or 5 boxes all running at once, and push a button to switch from this one to that one. Granted, there is also the consumption-of-electricity issue to to factor into this, but even granting that, I still don't get it. So let us suppose that I want two Linux boxes, onw XP box, one Windows 7 box, a dedicated server, and although I don't yet have the money, a Windows 8 box. The XP and Linux boxes think 2GB is wealth. The Win7 and Win8 prefer a tad more, and the server more than a tad more. But my point is, why not just buy a separate box for each task? We're not talking about huge amounts of loot here. And the gain is that everything runs as quickly as it can! So maybe I'm missing something important here; in which case, please educate me. A. On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 5:17 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi Stuart and John -- > > Thank you for your comments. > > Yes, I do remember MS DOS Stacker etc. but I have never used virtual hard > disks in MS Windows: I have asked about performance hit because I have > found that when setting a "map network drive" share from VM to a host PC > virtual harddisk it takes some time even to create and save via notepad.exe > a small text file. During that time notepad.exe becomes "frozen". When you > restart VM with "map network drive" share automatically remapped then such > a "performance hit side effect" disappears... > > Anyway I'm going to try using virtual hard disks to keep the source files > and test databases for my customers projects... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > Mon 3 Dec 2012 13:36:06 ?? "Stuart McLachlan" : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I did some testing a while ago with Access and VirtualBox. > > > > > > There was no appreciable difference when writing and reading large test > datasets between > > > Access running directly in Win 7 and running in a VirtualBox installation > with a virtual HD. > > > > > > Certainly nothing a user would notice. > > > > > > Except in one instance where I created a new virtual machine and told it > to create a > > > "dyanically allocated" disk rather "fixed size" - that really slowed down > the initial writes :-) > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Stuart > > > > > > On 2 Dec 2012 at 20:28, jwcolby wrote: > > > > > > > Is the average Windows 7 desktop user going to notice the overhead of > reading and writing to a > > > > virtual disk? > > > > > > > > John W. Colby > > > > Colby Consulting > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > dba-VB mailing list > > > >dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > > >http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- Arthur Cell: 647.710.1314 Prediction is difficult, especially of the future. -- Niels Bohr From dbdoug at gmail.com Mon Dec 3 15:01:39 2012 From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2012 13:01:39 -0800 Subject: [dba-VB] [SPAM] Create and Use a Virtual Hard Disk on Windows 7 and Windows 8 In-Reply-To: References: <50BC0021.1010100@colbyconsulting.com> <1354490116.610321240@f381.i.mail.ru> <50BC1E26.10967.150D0D66@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <1354529839.652366677@f158.mail.ru> Message-ID: Arthur, I think you are making one bad assumption - that hardware is 'way faster than any VM'. From a practical point of view (I have to say that because I can't be bothered running tests) I cannot tell the difference in speed between Windows 7 running on hardware and in a VM (Parallels in this case). For about $700 I just bought a Mac Mini. That gives me a bitchin' OSX system, a bitchin' Office 2003/Windows development system, a bitchin' Office 2010 Windows development system, and any other bitchin' computer I feel like setting up :) Doug On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 12:08 PM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > Ok, maybe I am getting something absolutely wrong here, but I fail to > comprehend the VM thing. It seems to me that given the plummeting price of > hardware, VMs have no reason to exist. For example, all you need for a > bitchin' Linux box or XP box or Windows 7 box is about $500 or less. Said > box would run way faster than any VM, and if you have a KVM then you have > about 4 or 5 boxes all running at once, and push a button to switch from > this one to that one. Granted, there is also the consumption-of-electricity > issue to to factor into this, but even granting that, I still don't get it. > So let us suppose that I want two Linux boxes, onw XP box, one Windows 7 > box, a dedicated server, and although I don't yet have the money, a Windows > 8 box. The XP and Linux boxes think 2GB is wealth. The Win7 and Win8 prefer > a tad more, and the server more than a tad more. But my point is, why not > just buy a separate box for each task? We're not talking about huge amounts > of loot here. And the gain is that everything runs as quickly as it can! > > So maybe I'm missing something important here; in which case, please > educate me. > > A. > > > On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 5:17 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil >wrote: > > > Hi Stuart and John -- > > > > Thank you for your comments. > > > > Yes, I do remember MS DOS Stacker etc. but I have never used virtual hard > > disks in MS Windows: I have asked about performance hit because I have > > found that when setting a "map network drive" share from VM to a host PC > > virtual harddisk it takes some time even to create and save via > notepad.exe > > a small text file. During that time notepad.exe becomes "frozen". When > you > > restart VM with "map network drive" share automatically remapped then > such > > a "performance hit side effect" disappears... > > > > Anyway I'm going to try using virtual hard disks to keep the source files > > and test databases for my customers projects... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- Shamil > > > > Mon 3 Dec 2012 13:36:06 ?? "Stuart McLachlan" : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I did some testing a while ago with Access and VirtualBox. > > > > > > > > > > There was no appreciable difference when writing and reading large test > > datasets between > > > > > Access running directly in Win 7 and running in a VirtualBox > installation > > with a virtual HD. > > > > > > > > > > Certainly nothing a user would notice. > > > > > > > > > > Except in one instance where I created a new virtual machine and told it > > to create a > > > > > "dyanically allocated" disk rather "fixed size" - that really slowed down > > the initial writes :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Stuart > > > > > > > > > > On 2 Dec 2012 at 20:28, jwcolby wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Is the average Windows 7 desktop user going to notice the overhead of > > reading and writing to a > > > > > > virtual disk? > > > > > > > > > > > > John W. Colby > > > > > > Colby Consulting > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > dba-VB mailing list > > > > > >dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > > > > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > > > > >http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > dba-VB mailing list > > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > Arthur > Cell: 647.710.1314 > > Prediction is difficult, especially of the future. > -- Niels Bohr > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Dec 3 15:05:28 2012 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2012 01:05:28 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] =?utf-8?q?=5BSPAM=5D_Create_and_Use_a_Virtual_Hard_Disk_?= =?utf-8?q?on_Windows_7_and_Windows_8?= Message-ID: <1354568728.769015852@f84.mail.ru> Hi Arthur -- I have a Win8 Prof notebook with 12GB RAM, 256 GB SSD and 1TB HDD. That's quite a lot. And so I wanted to use/share them to be used for different OSes, tasks, customers, relatives, VMs, security contexts... I can split SSD and HDD on logical disks as I have been doing in the past but handling logical disks would be a PITA. So virtual HDDs seems to be "what doctor ordered"... Did I educate you? If not - please educate me :) Thank you. -- Shamil ???????????, 3 ??????? 2012, 15:08 ?? Arthur Fuller : > > > > >Ok, maybe I am getting something absolutely wrong here, but I fail to comprehend the VM thing. It seems to me that given the plummeting price of hardware, VMs have no reason to exist. For example, all you need for a bitchin' Linux box or XP box or Windows 7 box is about $500 or less. Said box would run way faster than any VM, and if you have a KVM then you have about 4 or 5 boxes all running at once, and push a button to switch from this one to that one. Granted, there is also the consumption-of-electricity issue to to factor into this, but even granting that, I still don't get it. So let us suppose that I want two Linux boxes, onw XP box, one Windows 7 box, a dedicated server, and although I don't yet have the money, a Windows 8 box. The XP and Linux boxes think 2GB is wealth. The Win7 and Win8 prefer a tad more, and the server more than a tad more. But my point is, why not just buy a separate box for each task? We're not talking about huge amounts of loot here. And the gain is that everything runs as quickly as it can! > > >So maybe I'm missing something important here; in which case, please educate me. > > >A. > > > >On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 5:17 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >>Hi Stuart and John -- >> >> Thank you for your comments. >> >> Yes, I do remember MS DOS Stacker etc. but I have never used virtual hard disks in MS Windows: I have asked about performance hit because I have found that when setting a "map network drive" share from VM to a host PC virtual harddisk it takes some time even to create and save via notepad.exe a small text file. During that time notepad.exe becomes "frozen". When you restart VM with "map network drive" share automatically remapped then such a "performance hit side effect" disappears... >> >> Anyway I'm going to try using virtual hard disks to keep the source files and test databases for my customers projects... >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- Shamil >> >> Mon ?3 Dec 2012 13:36:06 ?? "Stuart McLachlan" : >> >>> >> > >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >I did some testing a while ago with Access ?and VirtualBox. >> > >> >> > >> There was no appreciable difference when writing ?and reading large test datasets between >> > >> Access running directly in Win 7 and ?running in a VirtualBox installation with a virtual HD. >> > >> >> > >> Certainly nothing a user would notice. >> > >> >> > >> Except in one instance where I created a new virtual machine and told it to create a >> > >> "dyanically allocated" disk rather "fixed size" - that really slowed down the initial writes :-) >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> -- >> > >> Stuart >> > >> >> > >> On 2 Dec 2012 at 20:28, jwcolby wrote: >> > >> >> > >> > Is the average Windows 7 desktop user going to notice the overhead of reading and writing to a >> > >> > virtual disk? >> > >> > >> > >> > John W. Colby >> > >> > Colby Consulting >> > >> > >> > >> >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> > >> dba-VB mailing list >> > >> >dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> > >> >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> > >> >http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-VB mailing list >> >>dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> >>http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> > > > >-- > >Arthur >Cell: 647.710.1314 > > >Prediction is difficult, especially of the future. >? -- Niels Bohr > > > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Dec 3 15:48:50 2012 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2012 16:48:50 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] [SPAM] Re: [SPAM] Create and Use a Virtual Hard Disk on Windows 7 and Windows 8 In-Reply-To: References: <50BC0021.1010100@colbyconsulting.com> <1354490116.610321240@f381.i.mail.ru> <50BC1E26.10967.150D0D66@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <1354529839.652366677@f158.mail.ru> Message-ID: <50BD1E42.80103@colbyconsulting.com> As mentioned by others, the fact is that you can easily run VMs as you need them or even multiple at once all one a single box. I converted an old server which has 6 cores and 32 gigs of ram to be a VM server. I actually run 6 different VMs on one physical box - 24/7/365. I have: 1) 4 boxes running my Accuzip 3rd party address validation software. 2) Another VM running a SQL Server instance for my "Access over the web" stuff 3) What I call my "dev machine" on which I have Visual Studio 2010 and everything required to do my dev in that. 4) On the physical machine (the VM Server itself) I have my SVN Server and the code repository. So I basically have 7 "machines" running on one physical box. Yea it has 6 cores and yea it has 32 gigs of ram but that is ho-hum hardware today. To have 7 physical machines actually running to do that would be silly. Heat, electricity, noise, maintenance... Silly. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 12/3/2012 3:08 PM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > Ok, maybe I am getting something absolutely wrong here, but I fail to > comprehend the VM thing. It seems to me that given the plummeting price of > hardware, VMs have no reason to exist. For example, all you need for a > bitchin' Linux box or XP box or Windows 7 box is about $500 or less. Said > box would run way faster than any VM, and if you have a KVM then you have > about 4 or 5 boxes all running at once, and push a button to switch from > this one to that one. Granted, there is also the consumption-of-electricity > issue to to factor into this, but even granting that, I still don't get it. > So let us suppose that I want two Linux boxes, onw XP box, one Windows 7 > box, a dedicated server, and although I don't yet have the money, a Windows > 8 box. The XP and Linux boxes think 2GB is wealth. The Win7 and Win8 prefer > a tad more, and the server more than a tad more. But my point is, why not > just buy a separate box for each task? We're not talking about huge amounts > of loot here. And the gain is that everything runs as quickly as it can! > > So maybe I'm missing something important here; in which case, please > educate me. > > A. > > > On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 5:17 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > >> Hi Stuart and John -- >> >> Thank you for your comments. >> >> Yes, I do remember MS DOS Stacker etc. but I have never used virtual hard >> disks in MS Windows: I have asked about performance hit because I have >> found that when setting a "map network drive" share from VM to a host PC >> virtual harddisk it takes some time even to create and save via notepad.exe >> a small text file. During that time notepad.exe becomes "frozen". When you >> restart VM with "map network drive" share automatically remapped then such >> a "performance hit side effect" disappears... >> >> Anyway I'm going to try using virtual hard disks to keep the source files >> and test databases for my customers projects... >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- Shamil From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Dec 3 15:52:52 2012 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2012 16:52:52 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] [SPAM] Re: [SPAM] Create and Use a Virtual Hard Disk on Windows 7 and Windows 8 In-Reply-To: References: <50BC0021.1010100@colbyconsulting.com> <1354490116.610321240@f381.i.mail.ru> <50BC1E26.10967.150D0D66@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <1354529839.652366677@f158.mail.ru> Message-ID: <50BD1F34.1040907@colbyconsulting.com> The bad assumption I think is that you need all that power for each machine being emulated. I am running third party software on 4 VMs. Faster machines don't make them do their job much faster. My "SQL over the web" server runs tiny little SQL Servers interfacing to Access. As of now the requirements aren't huge. My dev machine I threw 2 cores at plus 6 gigs of RAM. Which is another advantage, if I need more horsepower I just bring the VM down and add a core / more memory. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 12/3/2012 4:01 PM, Doug Steele wrote: > Arthur, I think you are making one bad assumption - that hardware is 'way > faster than any VM'. From a practical point of view (I have to say that > because I can't be bothered running tests) I cannot tell the difference in > speed between Windows 7 running on hardware and in a VM (Parallels in this > case). > > For about $700 I just bought a Mac Mini. That gives me a bitchin' OSX > system, a bitchin' Office 2003/Windows development system, a bitchin' > Office 2010 Windows development system, and any other bitchin' computer I > feel like setting up :) > > Doug > > > On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 12:08 PM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > >> Ok, maybe I am getting something absolutely wrong here, but I fail to >> comprehend the VM thing. It seems to me that given the plummeting price of >> hardware, VMs have no reason to exist. For example, all you need for a >> bitchin' Linux box or XP box or Windows 7 box is about $500 or less. Said >> box would run way faster than any VM, and if you have a KVM then you have >> about 4 or 5 boxes all running at once, and push a button to switch from >> this one to that one. Granted, there is also the consumption-of-electricity >> issue to to factor into this, but even granting that, I still don't get it. >> So let us suppose that I want two Linux boxes, onw XP box, one Windows 7 >> box, a dedicated server, and although I don't yet have the money, a Windows >> 8 box. The XP and Linux boxes think 2GB is wealth. The Win7 and Win8 prefer >> a tad more, and the server more than a tad more. But my point is, why not >> just buy a separate box for each task? We're not talking about huge amounts >> of loot here. And the gain is that everything runs as quickly as it can! >> >> So maybe I'm missing something important here; in which case, please >> educate me. >> >> A. >> >> >> On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 5:17 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil >> wrote: >> >>> Hi Stuart and John -- >>> >>> Thank you for your comments. >>> >>> Yes, I do remember MS DOS Stacker etc. but I have never used virtual hard >>> disks in MS Windows: I have asked about performance hit because I have >>> found that when setting a "map network drive" share from VM to a host PC >>> virtual harddisk it takes some time even to create and save via >> notepad.exe >>> a small text file. During that time notepad.exe becomes "frozen". When >> you >>> restart VM with "map network drive" share automatically remapped then >> such >>> a "performance hit side effect" disappears... >>> >>> Anyway I'm going to try using virtual hard disks to keep the source files >>> and test databases for my customers projects... >>> >>> Thank you. >>> >>> -- Shamil >>> >>> Mon 3 Dec 2012 13:36:06 ?? "Stuart McLachlan" : >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> I did some testing a while ago with Access and VirtualBox. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> There was no appreciable difference when writing and reading large test >>> datasets between >>>> >>> Access running directly in Win 7 and running in a VirtualBox >> installation >>> with a virtual HD. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> Certainly nothing a user would notice. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> Except in one instance where I created a new virtual machine and told it >>> to create a >>>> >>> "dyanically allocated" disk rather "fixed size" - that really slowed down >>> the initial writes :-) >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> -- >>>> >>> Stuart >>>> >>> >>>> >>> On 2 Dec 2012 at 20:28, jwcolby wrote: >>>> >>> >>>> >>>> Is the average Windows 7 desktop user going to notice the overhead of >>> reading and writing to a >>>> >>>> virtual disk? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> John W. Colby >>>> >>>> Colby Consulting >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>> dba-VB mailing list >>>> >>>> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >>>> >>>> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> dba-VB mailing list >>> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >>> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Arthur >> Cell: 647.710.1314 >> >> Prediction is difficult, especially of the future. >> -- Niels Bohr >> _______________________________________________ >> dba-VB mailing list >> dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb >> http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Mon Dec 3 16:21:41 2012 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2012 17:21:41 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] [SPAM] Create and Use a Virtual Hard Disk on Windows 7 and Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <1354568728.769015852@f84.mail.ru> References: <1354568728.769015852@f84.mail.ru> Message-ID: Ok, I stand corrected. Maybe I just don't have the Big Box with a ton of RAM; that's not a maybe, that's a fact. All I can claim in my defense is that I run Ubuntu, Mint, and Win7 on separate boxes, and there is no comparison on performance. They are all operating simultaneously. The Linux boxes were seriously cheap; the Win7 box was a tad more expensive but still not unreasonable. Recently I decided that I also need a WinXP box, and purchased one with 2GB RAM for less than $100. Yes, it only had a 100MB hard disk, but who cares? That's way more space than installation of everything dating to that era demands. However, lest you think that I am a 100% happy camper, this is not so. I still want a CP/M box and a pure DOS box too. And I don't want VMs, I want the real thing -- totally dedicated to exactly one purpose/OS. A. On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 4:05 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi Arthur -- > > I have a Win8 Prof notebook with 12GB RAM, 256 GB SSD and 1TB HDD. > That's quite a lot. > And so I wanted to use/share them to be used for different OSes, tasks, > customers, relatives, VMs, security contexts... > I can split SSD and HDD on logical disks as I have been doing in the past > but handling logical disks would be a PITA. > So virtual HDDs seems to be "what doctor ordered"... > > Did I educate you? If not - please educate me :) > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > > > ???????????, 3 ??????? 2012, 15:08 ?? Arthur Fuller < > fuller.artful at gmail.com>: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Ok, maybe I am getting something absolutely wrong here, but I fail to > comprehend the VM thing. It seems to me that given the plummeting price of > hardware, VMs have no reason to exist. For example, all you need for a > bitchin' Linux box or XP box or Windows 7 box is about $500 or less. Said > box would run way faster than any VM, and if you have a KVM then you have > about 4 or 5 boxes all running at once, and push a button to switch from > this one to that one. Granted, there is also the consumption-of-electricity > issue to to factor into this, but even granting that, I still don't get it. > So let us suppose that I want two Linux boxes, onw XP box, one Windows 7 > box, a dedicated server, and although I don't yet have the money, a Windows > 8 box. The XP and Linux boxes think 2GB is wealth. The Win7 and Win8 prefer > a tad more, and the server more than a tad more. But my point is, why not > just buy a separate box for each task? We're not talking about huge amounts > of loot here. And the gain is that everything runs as quickly as it can! > > > > > > >So maybe I'm missing something important here; in which case, please > educate me. > > > > > >A. > > > > > > > >On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 5:17 AM, Salakhetdinov Shamil > wrote: > > > >>Hi Stuart and John -- > >> > > >> > Thank you for your comments. > >> > > >> > Yes, I do remember MS DOS Stacker etc. but I have never used virtual hard > disks in MS Windows: I have asked about performance hit because I have > found that when setting a "map network drive" share from VM to a host PC > virtual harddisk it takes some time even to create and save via notepad.exe > a small text file. During that time notepad.exe becomes "frozen". When you > restart VM with "map network drive" share automatically remapped then such > a "performance hit side effect" disappears... > >> > > >> > Anyway I'm going to try using virtual hard disks to keep the source files > and test databases for my customers projects... > >> > > >> > Thank you. > >> > > >> > -- Shamil > >> > > >> > Mon 3 Dec 2012 13:36:06 ?? "Stuart McLachlan" : > >> > >>> > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >I did some testing a while ago with Access and VirtualBox. > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > There was no appreciable difference when writing and reading large test > datasets between > >> > > > >> > Access running directly in Win 7 and running in a VirtualBox installation > with a virtual HD. > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > Certainly nothing a user would notice. > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > Except in one instance where I created a new virtual machine and told it > to create a > >> > > > >> > "dyanically allocated" disk rather "fixed size" - that really slowed down > the initial writes :-) > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > -- > >> > > > >> > Stuart > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > On 2 Dec 2012 at 20:28, jwcolby wrote: > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > Is the average Windows 7 desktop user going to notice the overhead of > reading and writing to a > >> > > > >> > > virtual disk? > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > John W. Colby > >> > > > >> > > Colby Consulting > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > > > >> > dba-VB mailing list > >> > > > >> > >dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > >> > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >> > > > >> > >http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > dba-VB mailing list > >> > >>dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >> > >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >> > >>http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > >-- > > > >Arthur > >Cell: 647.710.1314 > > > > > >Prediction is difficult, especially of the future. > > -- Niels Bohr > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- Arthur Cell: 647.710.1314 Prediction is difficult, especially of the future. -- Niels Bohr From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Dec 3 18:04:51 2012 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2012 04:04:51 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] =?utf-8?q?=5BSPAM=5D_Create_and_Use_a_Virtual_Hard_Disk_?= =?utf-8?q?on_Windows_7_and_Windows_8?= Message-ID: <1354579491.237856051@f342.mail.ru> Arthur -- Why do you suppose you need a "real thing"? - you can have a set of dedicated VMs running on one physical box, running as good as you can have them running on separate boxes... Thank you. -- Shamil ???????????, 3 ??????? 2012, 17:21 ?? Arthur Fuller : >Ok, I stand corrected. Maybe I just don't have the Big Box with a ton of RAM; that's not a maybe, that's a fact. All I can claim in my defense is that I run Ubuntu, Mint, and Win7 on separate boxes, and there is no comparison on performance. They are all operating simultaneously. The Linux boxes were seriously cheap; the Win7 box was a tad more expensive but still not unreasonable. Recently I decided that I also need a WinXP box, and purchased one with 2GB RAM for less than $100. Yes, it only had a 100MB hard disk, but who cares? That's way more space than installation of everything dating to that era demands. > > >However, lest you think that I am a 100% happy camper, this is not so. I still want a CP/M box and a pure DOS box too. And I don't want VMs, I want the real thing -- totally dedicated to exactly one purpose/OS. > > >A. > ><<< skipped >>> > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Dec 3 19:38:27 2012 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2012 20:38:27 -0500 Subject: [dba-VB] [SPAM] Re: [SPAM] Create and Use a Virtual Hard Disk on Windows 7 and Windows 8 In-Reply-To: <1354579491.237856051@f342.mail.ru> References: <1354579491.237856051@f342.mail.ru> Message-ID: <50BD5413.3080001@colbyconsulting.com> Using a lot less power. And all of the money spent on buying those individual boxes can be spent on one more powerful box. John W. Colby Colby Consulting Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 12/3/2012 7:04 PM, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Arthur -- > > Why do you suppose you need a "real thing"? - you can have a set of dedicated VMs running on one physical box, running as good as you can have them running on separate boxes... > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > > ???????????, 3 ??????? 2012, 17:21 ?? Arthur Fuller : >> Ok, I stand corrected. Maybe I just don't have the Big Box with a ton of RAM; that's not a maybe, that's a fact. All I can claim in my defense is that I run Ubuntu, Mint, and Win7 on separate boxes, and there is no comparison on performance. They are all operating simultaneously. The Linux boxes were seriously cheap; the Win7 box was a tad more expensive but still not unreasonable. Recently I decided that I also need a WinXP box, and purchased one with 2GB RAM for less than $100. Yes, it only had a 100MB hard disk, but who cares? That's way more space than installation of everything dating to that era demands. >> >> >> However, lest you think that I am a 100% happy camper, this is not so. I still want a CP/M box and a pure DOS box too. And I don't want VMs, I want the real thing -- totally dedicated to exactly one purpose/OS. >> >> >> A. >> >> <<< skipped >>> > >> > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From rls at WeBeDb.com Tue Dec 4 14:06:52 2012 From: rls at WeBeDb.com (Robert Stewart) Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2012 14:06:52 -0600 Subject: [dba-VB] VMs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Arthur, VMs give you the versatility of creating what ever you need without being bound to any hardware other than the base system. That base system can be just about any OS you want to run. In my case, I can setup a Win XP machine running Office XP, a Win XP machine running Office 2003, a Win XP machine running Office 2007, a Win XP machine running Office 2010, a Win 7 machine running Office 2003, a Win 7 machine running Office 2007, a Win 7 machine running Office 2010, a Win 7 machine running Office 2013, a Win 8 machine running Office 2007, a Win 8 machine running Office 2010, a Win 8 machine running Office 2013, a Win 2008 R2 Server running SQL 2008 R2, a Win 2012 Server running SQL 2008 R2, a Win 2008 R2 Server running SQL 2012, a Win 2012 Server running SQL 2012, a Win 2008 R2 Server running SharePoint 2010, and...well, I think you can get the point by now. And, since I have 32 gig of ram in my machine, I can allocate just enough ram to each VM that I can have 5 or 6 of them running at the same time if I need to. As to using VHDs, I just use directories on an external hard drive for client development. Each VM can attach to the external drive, or map to it within the "network" if needed. I then have at least 2 backups of the "development" environment that I synchronize using Allway Sync. Robert At 03:01 PM 12/3/2012, you wrote: >Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2012 15:08:40 -0500 >From: Arthur Fuller >To: Salakhetdinov Shamil , "Discussion concerning > Visual Basic and related programming issues." > >Subject: Re: [dba-VB] [SPAM] Create and Use a Virtual Hard Disk on > Windows 7 and Windows 8 >Message-ID: > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=KOI8-R > >Ok, maybe I am getting something absolutely wrong here, but I fail to >comprehend the VM thing. It seems to me that given the plummeting price of >hardware, VMs have no reason to exist. For example, all you need for a >bitchin' Linux box or XP box or Windows 7 box is about $500 or less. Said >box would run way faster than any VM, and if you have a KVM then you have >about 4 or 5 boxes all running at once, and push a button to switch from >this one to that one. Granted, there is also the consumption-of-electricity >issue to to factor into this, but even granting that, I still don't get it. >So let us suppose that I want two Linux boxes, onw XP box, one Windows 7 >box, a dedicated server, and although I don't yet have the money, a Windows >8 box. The XP and Linux boxes think 2GB is wealth. The Win7 and Win8 prefer >a tad more, and the server more than a tad more. But my point is, why not >just buy a separate box for each task? We're not talking about huge amounts >of loot here. And the gain is that everything runs as quickly as it can! > >So maybe I'm missing something important here; in which case, please >educate me. > >A. Robert L. Stewart Any fool can write code that a computer can understand. Good programmers write code that humans can understand. --Martin Fowler www.WeBeDb.com www.DBGUIDesign.com www.RLStewartPhotography.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Dec 4 15:59:38 2012 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2012 01:59:38 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] =?utf-8?q?VMs?= Message-ID: <1354658378.885050430@f331.mail.ru> Hi Robert -- Do you use Hyper-V to manager your VMs? <<< Each VM can attach to the external drive.. >>> What is that? Thank you. -- Shamil ???????, 4 ??????? 2012, 14:06 ?? Robert Stewart : > > > > >Arthur, > > VMs give you the versatility of creating what ever you need without being > bound to any hardware other than the base system. That base system can be > just about any OS you want to run. > > In my case, I can setup a Win XP machine running Office XP, a Win XP > machine running Office 2003, a Win XP machine running Office 2007, > a Win XP machine running Office 2010, a Win 7 machine running Office 2003, > a Win 7 machine running Office 2007, a Win 7 machine running Office 2010, > a Win 7 machine running Office 2013, a Win 8 machine running Office 2007, > a Win 8 machine running Office 2010, a Win 8 machine running Office 2013, > a Win 2008 R2 Server running SQL 2008 R2, a Win 2012 Server running SQL > 2008 R2, a Win 2008 R2 Server running SQL 2012, a Win 2012 Server running > SQL 2012, a Win 2008 R2 Server running SharePoint 2010, and...well, > I think you > can get the point by now. And, since I have 32 gig of ram in my machine, I can > allocate just enough ram to each VM that I can have 5 or 6 of them > running at the > same time if I need to. > > As to using VHDs, I just use directories on an external hard drive > for client development. > Each VM can attach to the external drive, or map to it within the > "network" if needed. I > then have at least 2 backups of the "development" environment that I > synchronize using > Allway Sync. > > Robert > > At 03:01 PM 12/3/2012, you wrote: > >Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2012 15:08:40 -0500 > >From: Arthur Fuller > >To: Salakhetdinov Shamil , "Discussion concerning > > Visual Basic and related programming issues." > > > >Subject: Re: [dba-VB] [SPAM] Create and Use a Virtual Hard Disk on > > Windows 7 and Windows 8 > >Message-ID: > > > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=KOI8-R > > > >Ok, maybe I am getting something absolutely wrong here, but I fail to > >comprehend the VM thing. It seems to me that given the plummeting price of > >hardware, VMs have no reason to exist. For example, all you need for a > >bitchin' Linux box or XP box or Windows 7 box is about $500 or less. Said > >box would run way faster than any VM, and if you have a KVM then you have > >about 4 or 5 boxes all running at once, and push a button to switch from > >this one to that one. Granted, there is also the consumption-of-electricity > >issue to to factor into this, but even granting that, I still don't get it. > >So let us suppose that I want two Linux boxes, onw XP box, one Windows 7 > >box, a dedicated server, and although I don't yet have the money, a Windows > >8 box. The XP and Linux boxes think 2GB is wealth. The Win7 and Win8 prefer > >a tad more, and the server more than a tad more. But my point is, why not > >just buy a separate box for each task? We're not talking about huge amounts > >of loot here. And the gain is that everything runs as quickly as it can! > > > >So maybe I'm missing something important here; in which case, please > >educate me. > > > >A. > > Robert L. Stewart > > Any fool can write code that a computer can understand. Good > programmers write code that humans can understand. --Martin Fowler > > >www.WeBeDb.com > >www.DBGUIDesign.com > >www.RLStewartPhotography.com > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > >dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Dec 10 16:31:59 2012 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 02:31:59 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] =?utf-8?q?Visual_Studio_2012?= Message-ID: <1355178719.603303173@f54.mail.ru> Hi Doug -- I have just converted 25 solutions and about 200 projects (C#) into VS 2012 ones, under Win8. It just works! Thank you. -- Shamil ?????, 21 ?????? 2012, 17:21 ?? "Doug Murphy" : > > > > >All, > > I just renewed my Action Pack Developer subscription and am looking at > moving to Visual Studio 2012 from VS 2010. Are there any drawbacks to > upgrading? Don't want to shoot myself in the foot and screw up existing > projects. > > Thanks. > > Doug > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > >dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > From dw-murphy at cox.net Mon Dec 10 17:49:46 2012 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 15:49:46 -0800 Subject: [dba-VB] Visual Studio 2012 In-Reply-To: <1355178719.603303173@f54.mail.ru> References: <1355178719.603303173@f54.mail.ru> Message-ID: <02d401cdd731$089eb300$19dc1900$@cox.net> Shamil, That is great to know. Thank you. I don't have Win8 and probably won't use it, but I am sure VS12 will work the same under Win7. Doug -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Monday, December 10, 2012 2:32 PM To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues. Subject: Re: [dba-VB] Visual Studio 2012 Hi Doug -- I have just converted 25 solutions and about 200 projects (C#) into VS 2012 ones, under Win8. It just works! Thank you. -- Shamil ?????, 21 ?????? 2012, 17:21 ?? "Doug Murphy" : > > > > >All, > > I just renewed my Action Pack Developer subscription and am looking at > moving to Visual Studio 2012 from VS 2010. Are there any drawbacks to > upgrading? Don't want to shoot myself in the foot and screw up existing > projects. > > Thanks. > > Doug > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > >dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > >http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Tue Dec 11 08:29:00 2012 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 15:29:00 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] ASP.NET - pass data from .cs to .js Message-ID: <009301cdd7ab$dd12d1f0$973875d0$@cactus.dk> Hi all Is SignalR familiar to anyone: http://signalr.net/ .. the ability to have your server-side code push content to the connected clients as it happens, in real-time. /gustav -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Gustav Brock Sendt: 21. november 2012 17:39 Til: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.' Emne: [dba-VB] ASP.NET - pass data from .cs to .js Hi all I have an ASP.NET winform project (.aspx) with a code-behind .cs file and an included .js file for client side code. The client side code is nothing special, only that it minimizes the round-trip to the server which I found slowed down the page when run on a smart-phone with GSM data link (not WiFi). How can I pass data from the .cs code to the .js code? Right now I write some client side script at Page_Load: private void RegisterScripts() { // Output the reference to the .js file. Page.ClientScript.RegisterClientScriptInclude(this.GetType(), "jScript", "/ClientScript.js"); // Output the variables. StringBuilder sb = new StringBuilder(); sb.Append("\n"); Page.ClientScript.RegisterClientScriptBlock(GetType(), "fillOptions", sb.ToString()); } This works fine and dandy as the data (the arrays and variables) are static during a session (but not between sessions) as these are retrieved once from the database also at Page_Load. But the scriptblock is visible at client side if the user selects "View source" in the browser and I would prefer it not to be. Also, the method of writing code lines from code seems sort of primitive to me. Would there be a better/easier/smarter way? /gustav From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Dec 11 14:33:19 2012 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 12:33:19 -0800 Subject: [dba-VB] ASP.NET - pass data from .cs to .js In-Reply-To: <009301cdd7ab$dd12d1f0$973875d0$@cactus.dk> References: <009301cdd7ab$dd12d1f0$973875d0$@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <6FE1FB94AD8F461B8279F7D17A2FF9CA@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Gustav: Definitely interesting. I will download the library and take a close look. It will be a bit different from most FE webpages as they do not need synchronize connections but given the examples they show, for game use and for creating and maintaining a VPN connection, the library might be very useful. I would like to see how the program negotiates and maintains a secure socket between a client and a server. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 6:29 AM To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.' Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ASP.NET - pass data from .cs to .js Hi all Is SignalR familiar to anyone: http://signalr.net/ .. the ability to have your server-side code push content to the connected clients as it happens, in real-time. /gustav -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Gustav Brock Sendt: 21. november 2012 17:39 Til: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.' Emne: [dba-VB] ASP.NET - pass data from .cs to .js Hi all I have an ASP.NET winform project (.aspx) with a code-behind .cs file and an included .js file for client side code. The client side code is nothing special, only that it minimizes the round-trip to the server which I found slowed down the page when run on a smart-phone with GSM data link (not WiFi). How can I pass data from the .cs code to the .js code? Right now I write some client side script at Page_Load: private void RegisterScripts() { // Output the reference to the .js file. Page.ClientScript.RegisterClientScriptInclude(this.GetType(), "jScript", "/ClientScript.js"); // Output the variables. StringBuilder sb = new StringBuilder(); sb.Append("\n"); Page.ClientScript.RegisterClientScriptBlock(GetType(), "fillOptions", sb.ToString()); } This works fine and dandy as the data (the arrays and variables) are static during a session (but not between sessions) as these are retrieved once from the database also at Page_Load. But the scriptblock is visible at client side if the user selects "View source" in the browser and I would prefer it not to be. Also, the method of writing code lines from code seems sort of primitive to me. Would there be a better/easier/smarter way? /gustav _______________________________________________ dba-VB mailing list dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rls at WeBeDb.com Wed Dec 12 08:36:01 2012 From: rls at WeBeDb.com (Robert Stewart) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2012 08:36:01 -0600 Subject: [dba-VB] VMs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5A43CEF3-678E-4CFA-B793-44928DD8AF96@holly.arvixe.com> I use VMWare Workstation. At 02:33 PM 12/11/2012, you wrote: >Message: 3 >Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2012 01:59:38 +0400 >From: Salakhetdinov Shamil >To: Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues. > >Subject: Re: [dba-VB] VMs >Message-ID: <1354658378.885050430 at f331.mail.ru> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > >Hi Robert -- > >Do you use Hyper-V to manager your VMs? > ><<< >Each VM can attach to the external drive.. > >>> >What is that? > >Thank you. > >-- Shamil Robert L. Stewart Any fool can write code that a computer can understand. Good programmers write code that humans can understand. --Martin Fowler www.WeBeDb.com www.DBGUIDesign.com www.RLStewartPhotography.com From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Dec 12 12:03:37 2012 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2012 19:03:37 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] ASP.NET - pass data from .cs to .js Message-ID: <003901cdd893$02c576e0$085064a0$@cactus.dk> Hi Jim I went to a Microsoft Web Camp today and watched a demo of SignalR. At its best, it establishes a duplex socket connection between the server and all clients connected at a given moment offering real-time update of the clients - individually or all - at a dozen or so of simple code lines using JavaScript client side and one of several libraries server side. Very impressive and very promising. It can presently handle about 40.000 connected clients with a tiny CPU load on the server - the network connection is the bottleneck. This is the beta; the final version is aimed at 500.000 simultaneous connections. For older servers or clients, it offers about four downgrade communication methods which are negotiated automatically - your code stays the same. It is almost like magic. /gustav -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Jim Lawrence Sendt: 11. december 2012 21:33 Til: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.' Emne: Re: [dba-VB] ASP.NET - pass data from .cs to .js Hi Gustav: Definitely interesting. I will download the library and take a close look. It will be a bit different from most FE webpages as they do not need synchronize connections but given the examples they show, for game use and for creating and maintaining a VPN connection, the library might be very useful. I would like to see how the program negotiates and maintains a secure socket between a client and a server. Jim -----Original Message----- From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 6:29 AM To: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.' Subject: Re: [dba-VB] ASP.NET - pass data from .cs to .js Hi all Is SignalR familiar to anyone: http://signalr.net/ .. the ability to have your server-side code push content to the connected clients as it happens, in real-time. /gustav -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Gustav Brock Sendt: 21. november 2012 17:39 Til: 'Discussion concerning Visual Basic and related programming issues.' Emne: [dba-VB] ASP.NET - pass data from .cs to .js Hi all I have an ASP.NET winform project (.aspx) with a code-behind .cs file and an included .js file for client side code. The client side code is nothing special, only that it minimizes the round-trip to the server which I found slowed down the page when run on a smart-phone with GSM data link (not WiFi). How can I pass data from the .cs code to the .js code? Right now I write some client side script at Page_Load: private void RegisterScripts() { // Output the reference to the .js file. Page.ClientScript.RegisterClientScriptInclude(this.GetType(), "jScript", "/ClientScript.js"); // Output the variables. StringBuilder sb = new StringBuilder(); sb.Append("\n"); Page.ClientScript.RegisterClientScriptBlock(GetType(), "fillOptions", sb.ToString()); } This works fine and dandy as the data (the arrays and variables) are static during a session (but not between sessions) as these are retrieved once from the database also at Page_Load. But the scriptblock is visible at client side if the user selects "View source" in the browser and I would prefer it not to be. Also, the method of writing code lines from code seems sort of primitive to me. Would there be a better/easier/smarter way? /gustav From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Dec 12 12:11:54 2012 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2012 19:11:54 +0100 Subject: [dba-VB] Free web place hosting at Azure Message-ID: <003b01cdd894$2a7bac80$7f730580$@cactus.dk> Hi all Have you noticed that MSFT currently offers up to 10 free web places running ASP.NET, PHP, or Node.js claimed to be running "forever" at zero costs. Of course, some limits must exist but I can't find info about this. Anyway, for some low-traffic site it should be fine: http://www.windowsazure.com /gustav From mcp2004 at mail.ru Sun Dec 16 12:41:52 2012 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (=?UTF-8?B?U2FsYWtoZXRkaW5vdiBTaGFtaWw=?=) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2012 22:41:52 +0400 Subject: [dba-VB] =?utf-8?q?One_Dev=2C_At_Least=2C_Is_Doing_Great_On_Windo?= =?utf-8?q?ws_8_=3A=29?= Message-ID: <1355683312.733832104@f3.mail.ru> Hi All -- FYI: ? One Dev, At Least, Is Doing Great On Windows?8? http://techcrunch.com/2012/12/14/one-dev-at-least-is-doing-great-on-windows-8/ Thank you. -- Shamil?