Brett Barabash
BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com
Fri Dec 12 11:58:32 CST 2003
But do you teach them Access SQL, or a more standard variety? -----Original Message----- From: Martin Reid [mailto:mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk] Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 11:53 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Slashdot: SQL vs Access for Learning Database Concepts? Is Access a suitable tool for teaching database concepts to students? Seems to be the subject I use Access to teach database design to students on a Computer Degree course. I use non graphical tools for teaching SQL because they are not permitted to sue them on the course same goes for HTML Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brett Barabash" <BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com> To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" <accessd at databaseadvisors.com> Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 9:46 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Slashdot: SQL vs Access for Learning Database Concepts? > IMHO, the Access query designer is a rotten way to teach someone how to > write SQL code. I have developed Access apps for 8 years now, and I still > cannot get more than 2 tables to join without using the QBE grid. For > example (using the Northwind database), if I wanted to join the Orders table > to the Order Details and Employees tables in Transact SQL, it would look > like: > > --- > SELECT Orders.* > FROM Orders > INNER JOIN [Order Details] > ON [Order Details].[Order ID] = Orders.[Order ID] > INNER JOIN Employees > ON Employees.[Employee ID] = Orders.[Employee ID] > --- > > Simple, intuitive, easy to learn. In fact, I wrote that snippet just now in > this email because it is so simple to do. > > Access, however, looks like (taken directly from the QBE grid contents): > --- > SELECT Orders.* > FROM Employees > INNER JOIN (Orders > INNER JOIN [Order Details] > ON Orders.[Order ID] = [Order Details].[Order ID]) > ON Employees.[Employee ID] = Orders.[Employee ID]; > --- > > How the h*ll are you supposed to teach the rules of this join syntax to > someone just learning SQL? You could spend weeks just teaching them the > various Jet engine rules for bracket placement! > > When I took SQL Server in college, we didn't have any visual design tools to > use, just the query analyzer. Students completely new to SQL in general > were writing complex queries after the first day! > > OTOH, the Access QBE grid is far more useful than the one in Enterprise > Manager, which is a good thing since I need to use it for virtually all of > my Access queries. Whereas I tend to manually type 90% of my SQL Server > queries in the query analyzer. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research > [mailto:alan.lawhon at us.army.mil] > Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 11:22 AM > To: 'accessd at databaseadvisors.com' > Subject: [AccessD] Slashdot: SQL vs Access for Learning Database > Concepts? > > > This was posted on Slashdot last night. I'm sure some of the folks on here, > (like maybe Susan Harkins, Martin Reid, and John Colby), might have an > interesting opinion about whether or not Access is a good "training vehicle" > for > learning SQL. > > > http://ask.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/12/11/1811206&mode=thread&tid=146& > tid= > 185&tid=99 > > P.S. About midway down in the reader postings, there are links to several > articles comparing the pros and cons of Access [SQL] to other SQL products. > > > Alan C. Lawhon > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------ > This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and > intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom > they are addressed. > If you have received this email in error please notify the > originator of the message. 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If you have received this email in error please notify the originator of the message. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software.