[AccessD] Slashdot: SQL vs Access for Learning DatabaseConcepts?

Students must hand code SQL and HTML. They are not permitted to use any GUI
at all. Thats not to say they dont hard to tell the HTML written by
Dreamweaver or Notepad but they have no GUI in the exam (<:

Martin


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Skolits" <askolits at ot.com>
To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving"
<accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Monday, December 15, 2003 6:40 AM
Subject: RE: [AccessD] Slashdot: SQL vs Access for Learning
DatabaseConcepts?


> If I went back to college and had to learn SQl syntax, my guess would be
> that learning how to code without a GUI tool would be a better method of
> learning. But, I have learned my database knowledge on my own since the
days
> of Cornerstone. (Let's see if anyone remembers that one! It was way ahead
of
> its time). I then learned the database tools and macros in Excel and
finally
> jumped on Access with version 1.0. Eventually, I migrated to SQL Server.
And
> I will tell you, that if someone asked me to write a basic select query
with
> a left join from scratch, forget it. It would take me 10 minutes (if I'm
> lucky). I use the Access grid, copy it over to SQL and I'm done in less
than
> a minute. (Note: I sometimes have to fine tune the syntax).
>
>  I have built very large, 400 + user systems with SQL Server and build
90% -
> 95% of my Stored Procedures  with the Access query grid. I know many of
the
> nuances of the Access query grid and can create very complex queries in a
> 10th of the time using that tool.
>
> But, from an educational standpoint, I would certainly introduce it to
> students as an excellent tool but still teach the basic methods. You never
> know how each student applies their knowledge. Some will build
applications,
> other will become database designers on large scale systems which require
> very fined tunes sql statements. Each job use a different tool set.
>
> Now, I have based these comment solely on building queries, not on
database
> design. That's a whole different world with primary/foreign keys and
> database normalization theories and more.
>
> Yet, if your out of college and just starting to learn query design on
your
> own. Learn the query grid in Access. A 'Totally' excellent tool.
>
> John Skolits
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Lawhon, Alan C
> Contractor/Morgan Research
> Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 12:22 PM
> To: 'accessd at databaseadvisors.com'
> Subject: [AccessD] Slashdot: SQL vs Access for Learning Database
> Concepts?
>
>
> This was posted on Slashdot last night.  I'm sure some of the folks on
here,
> (like maybe Susan Harkins, Martin Reid, and John Colby), might have an
> interesting opinion about whether or not Access is a good "training
vehicle"
> for
> learning SQL.
>
>
>
http://ask.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/12/11/1811206&mode=thread&tid=146&
> tid=
> 185&tid=99
>
> P.S.  About midway down in the reader postings, there are links to several
> articles comparing the pros and cons of Access [SQL] to other SQL
products.
>
>
> Alan C. Lawhon
>
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