Charlotte Foust
cfoust at infostatsystems.com
Wed Feb 5 13:38:01 CST 2003
Yes, and I had some old documentation from the long-defunct VAX system, but it included equations in the documentation not the formulas that would have to be derived from those equations and no explanation of what the individual pieces actually represented. And once an app has migrated through a couple of languages, it's a little hard to tell what the original datatype might have been, especially in a heavily braided list of gotos which seem to be reusing it for slightly different results depending on the branch! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: MartyConnelly [mailto:martyconnelly at shaw.ca] Sent: 5. veljača 2003 10:43 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] RE: [Accessed] .net I have written a few of those in Fortran IV, but you are limited to 8 character variable names and by default variables beginning with i through n are integer. Not conducive to say Hungarian notation. I used to include say the differential equation to convert latlong to UTM coordinates, not with the code but as a seperate manual with graphs, math, code and diagrams. However I did comment the code. These manuals were often never returned to the library, squirreled away in someone's desk or lost in the Thames flood of '53. With computer archeology, find the original programmer or the inheritor of the position, the documentation is probably attached. I have been phoned 10 years later by people searching for documentation that the computer librarian was missing. Charlotte Foust wrote: >Oh, YEAH!! A couple of years ago, I had to rebuild an app for >capturing digitized longitude-latitude points in a photogrammetry >system (using a digitizing table) that had been built for the VAX and >then *ported* to dBase by someone who made no effort to understand what >it was actually doing. Can you say "goto"?? It was loaded with >formulas using variables like j, k, l, m, etc. with no datatype and >without a clue as to what that variable represented at any given moment >or what any particular portion of the calculation produced. > >Charlotte Foust > >-----Original Message----- >From: Drew Wutka [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] >Sent: 5. veljača 2003 9:12 >To: 'accessd at databaseadvisors.com' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] RE: [Accessed] .net > > >I second that!!! I'll resist certifications till the world crumbles! > >I've got a funny story to tell. A few months ago, a co-worker put in a >request for me to build a 'prototyping' database/web page. We build >thermoelectric coolers, and we specialize in custom built ones. The >engineers who actually build the stuff, have a list of 'criteria' that >needs to be filled out by the sales people. Right now, it is a >completely disorganized paper system. Essentially the engineers are >getting scraps of paper with oddball specs on them. What they want, is >a web page, where the options are combo boxes, and the sales reps just >have to 'fill out' that online form. > >Being the intuitive investigator that I am, I asked if they would want >'modeling' capabilities. We have a DOS based Modeling program, where >you put in the specifications of a cooler, and it kicks out various >calculations. Apparently the current modeling program (which is about >7 or 8 years old) is actually being 'tricked' into working, because it >is still using numbers for outdated materials. > >My suggestion caused a little storm to brew, so one day I was given the >entire source code for the modeling program. It is written in >Basic....and I MEAN Basic. I can follow it, but it is a complete pain. >A lot of things are done just to handle input and output to the screen, >which is a completely different horse, when dealing with VB or ASP. > >So instead of trying to rebuild from something that isn't working >correctly, I asked the design engineers (which is actually a different >group from the prototype building engineers) for a sit down meeting, to >go over 'rebuilding' the modeling program. Now here's the kicker. I >explained that most of the 'work' that the modeling program is doing is >just basic math. If they could just 'map out' what the program is >doing, I could rebuild it much quicker. Here's what I was told....... > >Apparently all of the design engineers knew at some point in time how >to 'manually' perform the task that the modeling program is doing, but >they have not done so in years, therefore, they have no idea what it is >doing, or how it is doing it. > >95% of their job is the use of that modeling program, yet if the power >went out, they couldn't do their job on paper, because they have >'forgotten' how too? What kills me, is that everyone in that meeting >is making more then I am, and I am probably going to end up figuring it >all out on my own. (of course the project has a back burner status, >since I found out the people that are going to use it are a waste of >space.....) > ><VBG> > >Drew > >-----Original Message----- >From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] >Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 9:52 AM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] RE: [Accessed] .net > > >Any job that *requires* certification is one where the company uses >that in their marketing or where the company has no clue as to the real job requirements and so falls back on certification in the belief that it means something. Certification means you have studied some courses and passed some tests. It does NOT mean you know how to do a particular job. I have resisted certifications for years and will continue to do so unless my employer decides to fork out the dough and to free up my time to do the courses. > >I've also met MBAs who couldn't balance a checkbook, and most companies >realize that and allow substitution of experience for the much vaunted >(and expensive) certifications. > >Charlotte Foust > >-----Original Message----- >From: Jeanine Scott [mailto:jscott at mchsi.com] >Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 6:30 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] RE: [Accessed] .net > > >Personally, this scares me! Anyone else worried? > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-admin at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-admin at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence >(AccessD) >Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 5:52 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: [AccessD] RE: [Accessed] .net > >Hi All: > >Just a comment about the way things are going. > >One of the main money makers for MS is the charges related to courses >and various certifications. There are becoming more standard >requirements and it costs more to obtain and maintain these >certification levels. Certification for one path, if you take the >suggested courses, acquire the suggested books and pay for the exams, >can cost up to 8 thousand dollars (CAN). Every couple of years there is >a new upgrade and a new series of training, course material and exams. >If your company is a MS partner these costs can strap you into a >treadmill of payment to MS. So it is in MS's favour to continue >upgrading and modifying their products. > >With the shrinking of the tech market, employers can demand and get >people with higher and higher levels of education, training and >certification. Case in point; Check out the job opening for 'Google's' >staff needs. Two years ago they were just looking for competent web >programmers and they are still looking for competent web programmers >but they must also have PHD's in computer science. > >Jim > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-admin at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-admin at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust >Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 9:44 AM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] .net > > >Well, that certainly lets me out! <vbg> I'm just a working developer, >not a star. > >Charlotte Foust > >-----Original Message----- >From: Mwp.Reid at Queens-Belfast.AC.UK >[mailto:Mwp.Reid at Queens-Belfast.AC.UK] >Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 9:18 AM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: Re: [AccessD] .net > > >I would say that coming are many changes to the way we use SQL Server >and MSDE and Access. I would guess that some of these changes will not >be for the > >better. > >Access has a massive installed user and developer base and will always >be about. > >.NET is Microsoft strategic direction in programming applications and >the web. Up to each programmer if they stick with Access or move to >.NET. There will always be Acess work there. > >Theres work with SQL Server and MSDE thats in the nature of the beast >just like Oracle. Big relational systems running the enterprise need >work. Nice and easy. NO one ever said SQL Server was maintenace free >but there are many > >developments taking place to relieve the DBA of day to day work fore >example built in dynamic performance monitoring. IBM and DB2 have some >interesting areas. > >JET got the job done until you scale up and have 20000 users and >terrabytes of data. > >In my view MSDE was a marketing ploy. Nothing else. > >For whats its worth I have expressed similar concerns directly to MS on >many of the issues raised especially the future direction of SQL >Server, ADPs and Access. But you need to be a rela big name int he >developer world to get heard properly. > > >Martin > > >Quoting Francisco H Tapia <my.lists at verizon.net>: > > > >>AFAIK, MS never claimed for Sql Server or MSDE to be >>'maintenance-free', and they 'are' easier to use when compared to >>Oracle or DB2, and for that matter even mySQL. While all engines, are >> >> > > > >>simple and straightforward, (after you >>read the documentation) they all have their own level of complexity. >>JET, for example crumbles under the load of Memo fields. There is >>also 0 recoverability from a damaged .mdb file, if you MDB gets >>corrupt and >> >> >the > > >>MS >>tools can't fix it, you are generally dead in the water. Sql Server >>and other big brand engines provide for up to the point of failure >>recoverability. In order to use SqlServer or MSDE it does involve a >>great deal of learning the product, but I think it's just the same as >>when >> >> >we > > >>all >>started down the road with JET. >> >>-Francisco >>http://rcm.netfirms.com >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Charlotte Foust" <cfoust at infostatsystems.com> >>To: <accessd at databaseadvisors.com> >>Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 8:27 AM >>Subject: RE: [AccessD] .net >> >> >>: Unless common sense rears its ugly head somewhere along the way. SQL >>: Server and the desktop engine are not the maintenance free, >>easy-to-use >>: creatures that MS claims. At least Jet got the job done without >>needing >>: a dba on tap. >>: >>: Charlotte Foust >>: >>: -----Original Message----- >>: From: Martin Reid [mailto:mwp.reid at Queens-Belfast.AC.UK] >>: Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 7:33 AM >>: To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >>: Subject: Re: [AccessD] .net >>: >>: >>: I think the true future of Access will not be really known >>: until Access 12 is available. I do know JET and DAO are >>: dead today. No further development of either AFAIK. Could >>: all change but we have to wait and see. >>: >>: Lot of confusion it would appear >>: >>: Martin >>: >>: Martin WP Reid >>: Information Services >>: Queens University Belfast >>: >>: Tel: (02890) 273750 >>: >>: >>: ---------------------- >>: >>: >>: _______________________________________________ >>: AccessD mailing list >>: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>: http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>: Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>: _______________________________________________ >>: AccessD mailing list >>: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>: http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>: Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>: >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com