[AccessD] OT: the "Education" system

Martin Reid mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk
Wed Jun 11 12:25:33 CDT 2003


There are books on being a parent and heres me thinking you made it up as
you went along (<:

Martin


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Charlotte Foust" <cfoust at infostatsystems.com>
To: "accessd" <accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 5:53 PM
Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: the "Education" system


> Well, after we shoot all the lawyers ... <VBG>
>
> Actually, poor parenting may not always be the cause, but it certainly
> can be and probably often is.  The trouble is that the users manuals for
> children were created by the same wonderful folks that brought us HTML
> help, and there are no licensing requirements to make sure prospective
> parents know what they're doing.  Hmmn, that sounds a lot like some of
> the so-called Access "developers" I've cleaned up after!
>
> Charlotte Foust
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Colby [mailto:jcolby at colbyconsulting.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 8:35 AM
> To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com
> Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: the "Education" system
>
>
> The sad part is not that they continue on, but that there is nothing
> outside the mainstream regular classroom to address their needs.
>
> Not to mention the fact that all too often these children fail not
> because of a lack of ability, but a lack of motivation.  At an early age
> that can only be provided by the parent.  How do you fix poor parenting?
>
> John W. Colby
> www.colbyconsulting.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte
> Foust
> Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 12:20 PM
> To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com
> Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: the "Education" system
>
>
> >>I suppose if we ignore the problem long enough, it will eventually go
> away
>
> No, it will eventually graduate a bunch of functional illiterates who
> won't be able to support themselves or function effectively in a high
> tech society except to play video games.  The cult of self-esteeem has a
> great deal to answer for, but they will never be called to account ...
> Unlike the taxpayers who wind up supporting those who are unemployable.
>
> Charlotte Foust
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mitsules, Mark [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 7:36 AM
> To: 'accessd at databaseadvisors.com'
> Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: the "Education" system
>
>
> As an aside... I was told this morning from a spouse of a local
> elementary school teacher that the principal of said school has decided
> NOT to hold back a single student this year.  Students with
> unsatisfactory (we can't say "failing", can we?) grades across the board
> are being sent on regardless of teacher recommendations.  Of course the
> principal is only part of the problem.  The teacher is also aware of
> parents (most?, some?, all?) who were advised to hold back their child
> have chosen instead to let their child continue on.
>
>
> ...I suppose if we ignore the problem long enough, it will eventually go
> away.  :(
>
>
>
> Mark
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Colby [mailto:jcolby at colbyconsulting.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 11:09 AM
> To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com
> Subject: [AccessD] OT: the "Education" system
>
>
> I read something long ago that would indicate why this is so.  According
> to this article, the university system as we know it got it's start in
> the middle ages.  The average Joe did not go to school, did not know how
> to read or write.  Universities were originally designed to "educate"
> the sons and daughters of the ruling class.  The intended subjects of
> the system did not work, they ruled.  They had no need to "go get a
> job".  They needed skills distinctly different from those needed today.
>
> Unfortunately those in power in the university system do it "the way it
> has always been done".  A classic example of this is the ludicrous
> practice of forcing medical interns to stay on duty 48 hours at a time
> with only a couple of hours sleep.  Everyone acknowledges that this is
> dangerous, to the interns and even more so to the poor slob being seen
> by these sleep deprived interns.  But... "that's the way it has always
> been done".
>
> And so we live in a world where the college graduate has been forced to
> do the "choose two from basket weaving, choose two from music, choose
> two from science".  Yep, been there, done that.  What a waste.
>
> And of course the defenders of the system CLAIM that the purpose is not
> to train them to do a particular job (which is actually a good thing)
> but to learn how to think.  If only that were true!
>
> Try disputing anything the professor says and see how fast you are
> taught NOT to think!
>
> John W. Colby
> www.colbyconsulting.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Wortz, Charles
> Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 10:48 AM
> To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com
> Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT? - Certification
>
>
> Vlad,
>
> As a former college professor, I also notice that many of these "so
> called Highly Qualified Graduates" are not only "regurgitators of info"
> with "no people skills whatsoever" but also have no analytical skills.
>
> At most of the colleges and universities that I taught at I was the only
> Computer Science faculty member that had any real-world experience as a
> programmer/analyst.  And I was the only one that designed my tests as
> problems to solve, not multiple-guess or fill-in-the-blank type tests. I
> wanted my students to learn how to analyze and solve problems, not
> regurgitate data, which a trained monkey can do.
>
> One of the reasons I quit teaching is I got tired of butting heads with
> departmental chairs and school deans that didn't understand there was a
> difference between theoretical knowledge and practical knowledge and
> that the graduate from a bachelor level program needs to have some
> practical knowledge if he/she is to expect to find a job in the real
> world.  Only about 1% of the students could hope to become clones of
> their professors, they rest needed to be able to survive in the real
> world.
>
> Charles Wortz
> Software Development Division
> Texas Education Agency
> 1701 N. Congress Ave
> Austin, TX 78701-1494
> 512-463-9493
> CWortz at tea.state.tx.us
>
>
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