[AccessD] OT: the "Education" system

Charlotte Foust cfoust at infostatsystems.com
Wed Jun 11 16:10:08 CDT 2003


Certainly there are books, Martin.  I often used Dr. Spock to whack my
youngster across his fundament when he was a sprout.  I didn't say the
books were for reading, after all! <g>

Charlotte Foust

-----Original Message-----
From: Martin Reid [mailto:mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk] 
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 9:26 AM
To: accessd
Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: the "Education" system


There are books on being a parent and heres me thinking you made it up
as you went along (<:

Martin


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Charlotte Foust" <cfoust at infostatsystems.com>
To: "accessd" <accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 5:53 PM
Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: the "Education" system


> Well, after we shoot all the lawyers ... <VBG>
>
> Actually, poor parenting may not always be the cause, but it certainly

> can be and probably often is.  The trouble is that the users manuals 
> for children were created by the same wonderful folks that brought us 
> HTML help, and there are no licensing requirements to make sure 
> prospective parents know what they're doing.  Hmmn, that sounds a lot 
> like some of the so-called Access "developers" I've cleaned up after!
>
> Charlotte Foust
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Colby [mailto:jcolby at colbyconsulting.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 8:35 AM
> To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com
> Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: the "Education" system
>
>
> The sad part is not that they continue on, but that there is nothing 
> outside the mainstream regular classroom to address their needs.
>
> Not to mention the fact that all too often these children fail not 
> because of a lack of ability, but a lack of motivation.  At an early 
> age that can only be provided by the parent.  How do you fix poor 
> parenting?
>
> John W. Colby
> www.colbyconsulting.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte 
> Foust
> Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 12:20 PM
> To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com
> Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: the "Education" system
>
>
> >>I suppose if we ignore the problem long enough, it will eventually 
> >>go
> away
>
> No, it will eventually graduate a bunch of functional illiterates who 
> won't be able to support themselves or function effectively in a high 
> tech society except to play video games.  The cult of self-esteeem has

> a great deal to answer for, but they will never be called to account 
> ... Unlike the taxpayers who wind up supporting those who are 
> unemployable.
>
> Charlotte Foust
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mitsules, Mark [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 7:36 AM
> To: 'accessd at databaseadvisors.com'
> Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: the "Education" system
>
>
> As an aside... I was told this morning from a spouse of a local 
> elementary school teacher that the principal of said school has 
> decided NOT to hold back a single student this year.  Students with 
> unsatisfactory (we can't say "failing", can we?) grades across the 
> board are being sent on regardless of teacher recommendations.  Of 
> course the principal is only part of the problem.  The teacher is also

> aware of parents (most?, some?, all?) who were advised to hold back 
> their child have chosen instead to let their child continue on.
>
>
> ...I suppose if we ignore the problem long enough, it will eventually 
> go away.  :(
>
>
>
> Mark
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Colby [mailto:jcolby at colbyconsulting.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 11:09 AM
> To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com
> Subject: [AccessD] OT: the "Education" system
>
>
> I read something long ago that would indicate why this is so.  
> According to this article, the university system as we know it got 
> it's start in the middle ages.  The average Joe did not go to school, 
> did not know how to read or write.  Universities were originally 
> designed to "educate" the sons and daughters of the ruling class.  The

> intended subjects of the system did not work, they ruled.  They had no

> need to "go get a job".  They needed skills distinctly different from 
> those needed today.
>
> Unfortunately those in power in the university system do it "the way 
> it has always been done".  A classic example of this is the ludicrous 
> practice of forcing medical interns to stay on duty 48 hours at a time

> with only a couple of hours sleep.  Everyone acknowledges that this is

> dangerous, to the interns and even more so to the poor slob being seen

> by these sleep deprived interns.  But... "that's the way it has always

> been done".
>
> And so we live in a world where the college graduate has been forced 
> to do the "choose two from basket weaving, choose two from music, 
> choose two from science".  Yep, been there, done that.  What a waste.
>
> And of course the defenders of the system CLAIM that the purpose is 
> not to train them to do a particular job (which is actually a good 
> thing) but to learn how to think.  If only that were true!
>
> Try disputing anything the professor says and see how fast you are 
> taught NOT to think!
>
> John W. Colby
> www.colbyconsulting.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Wortz, 
> Charles
> Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 10:48 AM
> To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com
> Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT? - Certification
>
>
> Vlad,
>
> As a former college professor, I also notice that many of these "so 
> called Highly Qualified Graduates" are not only "regurgitators of 
> info" with "no people skills whatsoever" but also have no analytical 
> skills.
>
> At most of the colleges and universities that I taught at I was the 
> only Computer Science faculty member that had any real-world 
> experience as a programmer/analyst.  And I was the only one that 
> designed my tests as problems to solve, not multiple-guess or 
> fill-in-the-blank type tests. I wanted my students to learn how to 
> analyze and solve problems, not regurgitate data, which a trained 
> monkey can do.
>
> One of the reasons I quit teaching is I got tired of butting heads 
> with departmental chairs and school deans that didn't understand there

> was a difference between theoretical knowledge and practical knowledge

> and that the graduate from a bachelor level program needs to have some

> practical knowledge if he/she is to expect to find a job in the real 
> world.  Only about 1% of the students could hope to become clones of 
> their professors, they rest needed to be able to survive in the real 
> world.
>
> Charles Wortz
> Software Development Division
> Texas Education Agency
> 1701 N. Congress Ave
> Austin, TX 78701-1494
> 512-463-9493
> CWortz at tea.state.tx.us
>
>
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