Mitsules, Mark
Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com
Thu Jun 12 10:06:45 CDT 2003
< Tina ("We have been ignoring the problem much too long.")
< Rocky ("Fine. Less competition for my kids.")
< Charlotte ("No, it will eventually graduate..."
I applaud everyone's passion, but did anyone else realize that my statement
was <em>SARCASTIC<em> and therefore, IMHO, rhetorical? It was not meant to
be flame bait.
My apologies,
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: Tina Norris Fields [mailto:tinanfields at torchlake.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 8:14 AM
To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: the "Education" system
Mark,
We have been ignoring the problem much too long. We already are
graduating generations of functionally illiterate adults. Think of how
many people cannot write a coherent English sentence. In a time when we
are ever more dependent upon computers, which must be told exactly what
to do, in terms they can understand, where the absence of a semicolon or
a period will blow code right out of the water - is this the time to
give up on teaching language skills and critical thinking? If we no
longer can say what we mean, or even be certain of what we do mean, how
can we properly program and control these stupid machines?
I once taught an "electronic spreadsheet" course for my local college,
and discovered in the first day of class that 5 of my 16 students could
not figure out percentage and that 2 had gone all the way through high
school without learning any Algebra. They all expected the program to
do the analytical thinking for them and were apalled that they would
have to figure out what their formulas should be. After I got over the
shock, I redesigned the course to include the needed skills and
experience. And, yes, I built all my quizzes and exams as real problems
and projects - absolutely no "multiple guess" questions. I hate those.
Almost always, a good case can be made for more than one answer, but
only the officially RIGHT answer gets any credit at all.
Okay, I'll quit ranting.
Tina
Mitsules, Mark wrote:
>As an aside... I was told this morning from a spouse of a local
>elementary school teacher that the principal of said school has decided
>NOT to hold back a single student this year. Students with
>unsatisfactory (we can't say "failing", can we?) grades across the
>board are being sent on regardless of teacher recommendations. Of
>course the principal is only part of the problem. The teacher is also
>aware of parents (most?, some?, all?) who were advised to hold back
>their child have chosen instead to let their child continue on.
>
>
>...I suppose if we ignore the problem long enough, it will eventually
>go away. :(
>
>
>
>Mark
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: John Colby [mailto:jcolby at colbyconsulting.com]
>Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 11:09 AM
>To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com
>Subject: [AccessD] OT: the "Education" system
>
>
>I read something long ago that would indicate why this is so.
>According to this article, the university system as we know it got it's
>start in the middle ages. The average Joe did not go to school, did
>not know how to read or write. Universities were originally designed
>to "educate" the sons and daughters of the ruling class. The intended
>subjects of the system did not work, they ruled. They had no need to
>"go get a job". They needed skills distinctly different from those
>needed today.
>
>Unfortunately those in power in the university system do it "the way it
>has always been done". A classic example of this is the ludicrous
>practice of forcing medical interns to stay on duty 48 hours at a time
>with only a couple of hours sleep. Everyone acknowledges that this is
>dangerous, to the interns and even more so to the poor slob being seen
>by these sleep deprived interns. But... "that's the way it has always
>been done".
>
>And so we live in a world where the college graduate has been forced to
>do the "choose two from basket weaving, choose two from music, choose
>two from science". Yep, been there, done that. What a waste.
>
>And of course the defenders of the system CLAIM that the purpose is not
>to train them to do a particular job (which is actually a good thing)
>but to learn how to think. If only that were true!
>
>Try disputing anything the professor says and see how fast you are
>taught NOT to think!
>
>John W. Colby
>www.colbyconsulting.com
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Wortz,
>Charles
>Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 10:48 AM
>To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com
>Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT? - Certification
>
>
>Vlad,
>
>As a former college professor, I also notice that many of these "so
>called Highly Qualified Graduates" are not only "regurgitators of info"
>with "no people skills whatsoever" but also have no analytical skills.
>
>At most of the colleges and universities that I taught at I was the
>only Computer Science faculty member that had any real-world experience
>as a programmer/analyst. And I was the only one that designed my tests
>as problems to solve, not multiple-guess or fill-in-the-blank type
>tests. I wanted my students to learn how to analyze and solve problems,
>not regurgitate data, which a trained monkey can do.
>
>One of the reasons I quit teaching is I got tired of butting heads with
>departmental chairs and school deans that didn't understand there was a
>difference between theoretical knowledge and practical knowledge and
>that the graduate from a bachelor level program needs to have some
>practical knowledge if he/she is to expect to find a job in the real
>world. Only about 1% of the students could hope to become clones of
>their professors, they rest needed to be able to survive in the real
>world.
>
>Charles Wortz
>Software Development Division
>Texas Education Agency
>1701 N. Congress Ave
>Austin, TX 78701-1494
>512-463-9493
>CWortz at tea.state.tx.us
>
>
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>
>
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