Drew Wutka
DWUTKA at marlow.com
Thu Jun 12 21:26:34 CDT 2003
Actually, I know where he is coming from. I was a mechanic for years. One of the many similarities between being a mechanic, and being in the computer field, is that most of the people that use what you create at work, have no clue of how it works, nor do they have an inkling of appreciation for the sweat and tears involved. I saw The Matrix Reloaded. In that movie, there is an interesting scene between Neo, and the leader of Zion. The leader takes Neo down to the inner depths of Zion, and shows him the 'engine room', per se. He explains that all of the machinery down there keeps them alive and well, but no one cares about it, or even tries to figure out how it works, until something goes wrong. There was another point to that conversation (he was trying to explain to Neo that people depend on machines just as much as machines depend on them...it's a never ending circle.), but the point I doubt many people caught, was that we take a lot of things for granted. Now I don't know if your father would agree that a lot of the aggrevation between a hard labor job does occur with a 'brainy' desk job, like an IT Tech, but there are very similar strains. Drew -----Original Message----- From: Jim Lawrence (AccessD) [mailto:accessd at shaw.ca] Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 9:07 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: the "Education" system My father had a fairly different view of the world, from many here. Real men, didn't work in offices they built and fixed things. There were men with trades and then there were 'whimps'. He working in construction all his life, ran his own construction company until he retired and was proud of his superiority. A sort of inverse snobbery. :-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 10:56 AM To: 'accessd at databaseadvisors.com' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: the "Education" system I wasn't even taking gender into account. I have seen both men and women 'bow' to someone with a degree. I know I am a little stubborn <evilgrin>, but I stick to my guns with what I know. Drew -----Original Message----- From: Wortz, Charles [mailto:CWortz at tea.state.tx.us] Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 11:22 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: the "Education" system Drew, I think it is a cultural thing. Many women are trained from childhood to be submissive. Thus, unless they get assertiveness training, or have made a significant accomplishment such as getting a degree, they tend to be submissive as adults. Charles Wortz Software Development Division Texas Education Agency 1701 N. Congress Ave Austin, TX 78701-1494 512-463-9493 CWortz at tea.state.tx.us -----Original Message----- From: Drew Wutka [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday 2003 Jun 12 11:11 To: 'accessd at databaseadvisors.com' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: the "Education" system Interesting. I have never really felt 'downhill' though. In fact, many times I feel like I am uphill from people with degrees, because I see the solution, and they are flapping in the wind. Oh well. Drew -----Original Message----- From: Tina Norris Fields [mailto:tinanfields at torchlake.com] Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 6:59 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: the "Education" system Martin, you may have to go get that degree, just to shut them up. After some 14 years of experience as an export manager, with a side interest in office automation and the stuff that supports it, I one day found myself needing a new job. I had no degree, just knowledge. I had come from the midwest, where "equivalent experience" was a qualifier for those without the academic credentials. But, I was in New England (Boston, to be exact), and "equivalent experience" carried no weight whatsoever. I actually got turned down for a position where the only other candidate was a recent graduate with a degree and no experience - degree NOT in international trade or business, by the way. The interviewer said: "I couldn't justify choosing you over a degreed person." Wow! I did go back to school at New Hampshire College (now Southern New Hampshire University) and got my degree in Business and Computer Science. Now, I teach adults how to use computers - from the complete "newbie" who doesn't know where the ON switch is, to folks wanting to learn any of the Microsoft Office Suite programs. I also develop Access database applications and stuff for private clients. It's fun. The thing that really surprised me was that after I had my degree, I felt different in those meetings with other staff. I hadn't realized that I had felt "down hill" from everybody before the degree - but I did notice the change in my level of confidence once I was wearing my gold key (yes Summa Cum Laude - motivation is a wonderful thing). So, in your "free" time, Martin, why not enroll in a college or university that offers a complete degree in your area of interest via the Internet? When you get your gold key, those pompous jerks will have to shut up. My local college hired me from time-to-time as adjunct faculty when they needed my knowledge and they couldn't get anyone with the academic credentials to teach the class (summers, especially). I still work as a contract instructor for the Extended Education Services division of the college - teaching adults who really want to know the stuff. Tina _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com