[AccessD] Access and Crystal Reports

Drew Wutka DWUTKA at marlow.com
Sun Mar 9 17:41:01 CST 2003 

I agree on all of your statements.  (Though CR doesn't allow for
multi-threaded programming in the background...does it?)  

As far as VBA is concerned, it would be a little difficult to create a
multi-threaded interpretted language.  You can make a VB multi-thread .exe,
but you can't run it in debug mode.

VBA is still a very powerful tool in the Access arsenal.  (why would you
want to multi-thread code behind a report anyways?  There's something I
couldn't come up with a scenario for....at least not for a report...a form
would be something completely different.)

Drew

-----Original Message-----
From: Shamil Salakhetdinov
To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com
Sent: 3/9/03 4:02 PM
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and Crystal Reports

> VBA can be used to do practically
> anything in Windows
Unfortunately VBA is very limited and can't do a lot of useful things
available in Windows for C++ or DELPHI programmers - e.g. multi-thread
programming...

> which blows CR away, is that the reporting
> within Access is a component of Access,
IMO the thing, which blows MS Access away in reporting is that CR can be
used as a light-weight component in literally all and every modern 32bit
development tool/platform - well, MS Access can be also used as an
Automation server but everybody knows that MS Access is a behemoth,
memory
and resources hog...

>  just defending Access a bit.
I'm not attacking MS Access - it has a broad range of applications and I
use
it every day in my programming work but CR's  narrow specialization in
reporting makes it with every new release more and more outstanding
above
what MS Access can propose in report generation area...

Shamil

P.S. Forever with MS Access ! :)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew Wutka" <DWUTKA at marlow.com>
To: <accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2003 10:57 PM
Subject: RE: [AccessD] Access and Crystal Reports


> I guess I am just playing devil's advocate.  Since Access let's you
use
VBA
> within it's reports, and VBA can be used to do practically anything in
> Windows, or Access, then it stands to say that there is virtually
nothing
> that CR can do, which Access can't.
>
> Sure, there are always going to be speed/ease of use issues, however,
I
> think that one major advantage, which blows CR away, is that the
reporting
> within Access is a component of Access, not a special add-in.
>
> Again, I have rarely used CR, so I am not trying to hack it, just
defending
> Access a bit.
>
> Drew
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Shamil Salakhetdinov
> To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com
> Sent: 3/9/03 11:01 AM
> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and Crystal Reports
>
> This can be done IMO by using DLL/ActiveX extensions but the question
is
> why
> this API calls should be executed on report generation? Why not get
all
> the
> collected by API data on report data retrieval stage?
>
> Shamil
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Drew Wutka" <DWUTKA at marlow.com>
> To: <accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
> Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2003 7:15 PM
> Subject: RE: [AccessD] Access and Crystal Reports
>
>
> > A good example would be a report run by a network administrator,
which
> shows
> > information on network users.  Some info stored in a database, some
> from
> say
> > 'drive' space used, and some using API calls to retrieve domain
> settings.
> >
> > Drew
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Shamil Salakhetdinov [mailto:shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru]
> > Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2003 3:34 AM
> > To: AccessD
> > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and Crystal Reports
> >
> >
> > Drew,
> >
> > It looks like it cannot use Win API directly but:
> >
> > <<<+ quoting CR help +>>>
> > The Seagate Crystal Reports Formula Editor and formula language are
> powerful
> > tools, enabling you to perform a wide variety of report-related
tasks
> easily
> > and efficiently. The formula language is expandable as well. That
is,
> while
> > it already includes a large selection of useful functions, it also
> comes
> > with the ability to accept new functions that you define to meet
your
> needs.
> > User Defined Functions that are recognized by the Seagate Crystal
> Reports
> > Formula Editor can be created in a Dynamic Link Library or, for
32-bit
> > environments, in an Automation Server.
> > <<<- quoting CR help ->>>
> >
> > I.e. you can create helper DLL/ActiveX Dll following CR extention
call
> > protocol and use Win API this way...
> >
> > But what Win API calls are needed for reports' generation?
> >
> > HTH,
> > Shamil
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Drew Wutka" <DWUTKA at marlow.com>
> > To: <accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2003 2:50 AM
> > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Access and Crystal Reports
> >
> >
> > > Can this programming language handle API Calls?
> > >
> > > Drew
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Shamil Salakhetdinov [mailto:shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru]
> > > Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2003 11:52 AM
> > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com
> > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and Crystal Reports
> > >
> > >
> > > <<<
> > > > One question.  Does CR have a 'program' language that you can
run
> in
> the
> > > > background of a report?  (Not just macro like, but VBA like,
where
> you
> > can
> > > > interface with the OS if you want type stuff....)
> > > >>>
> > > Drew,
> > >
> > > Yes, CR has a program language used to create formulas - see P.S.
> > > What is important to note is that CR report generation
customization
> IS
> > NOT
> > > event driven!
> > > This shocks at first an MS Access developer (that's from my
> experience)...
> > > Then when you get comfortable with that "new ideology" you see
that
> it's
> > > very flexible...
> > > I'd say that the usual customization technique in CR is
> data-driven...
> > > I expect you to "fall in love" with CR because the tricks it
allows
> to
> do
> > > aren't possible in MS Access - the key to the tricks IMO are
> sections
> > (these
> > > are subsections of Report Header/Footer, Page Header/Footer,...)
and
> > > formulas, which can be specified on different levels of reports to
> control
> > > properties' values of report objects on runtime...
> > > And of course you'll love drill-down (live reports) - this is
where
> one
> CR
> > > report may substitute several MS Access forms and reports with
> > subreports...
> > > And of course you'll love easy migration of all that
stuff(reports)
> to
> the
> > > Web from where they can be interactively using very good and
> effective
> > data
> > > cashing technique...
> > > ...
> > >
> > > >  instead of
> > > > using the solutions that were used.
> > > There are good Wizards for CR too but CR profis seldom use them
(I'm
> not
> > the
> > > one of such profis because I've had just a casual project with CR)
.
> > > CR can be used by powerusers I think for the cases like you
describe
> but
> > > it's much more for programmers because only programmers are able
to
> show
> > the
> > > real power of CR through reports they create with it using
> formulas...
> > >
> > > Shamil
> > >
> > >
> > > P.S.
> > > <<<<+ Quoting CR Help +>>>
> > > formula
> > > A formula is a symbolic statement of the modifications you want
> performed
> > on
> > > certain data before it is printed on your report.
> > >
> > > For example, if your report is to contain a {file.SALES} field and
a
> > > {file.COST} field, you may want to create a GrossProfit field and
> > designate
> > > its text strings as {file.SALES} - {file.COST}. This is a simple
> formula
> > > that tells the program to subtract the value of the {file.COST}
> field
> from
> > > the value of the {file.SALES} field and then to print the result.
> > >
> > > You can use formulas to calculate numeric values, compare one
value
> to
> > > another and select alternative actions based on the comparison,
join
> > > multiple value into a single string, and to perform a multitude of
> other
> > > operations. Creating a formula in Crystal Reports is much like
> creating
> a
> > > formula in your favorite spreadsheet.
> > >
> > > Note:    The term "formula" in Crystal Reports is equivalent to
the
> term
> > > "expression" in Microsoft Access.
> > >
> > > Crystal and Basic Syntax
> > > When creating formulas, you have the option of using either
Crystal
> or
> > Basic
> > > syntax. Almost any formula written with one syntax can be written
> with
> the
> > > other. Reports can contain formulas that use Basic syntax as well
as
> > > formulas that use Crystal syntax.
> > >
> > > Crystal syntax is the formula language included in all prior
> versions of
> > > Crystal Reports. Basic Syntax is new to Crystal Reports 8.
> > >
> > > If you are familiar with Microsoft Visual Basic or other versions
of
> > Basic,
> > > then Basic syntax may be more familiar to you. In general, Basic
> syntax
> is
> > > modeled on Visual Basic except that it has specific extensions to
> handle
> > > reporting.
> > >
> > > If you are already comfortable with Crystal syntax, you can
continue
> to
> > use
> > > it, and benefit from the new functions, operators and control
> structures
> > > inspired by Visual Basic.
> > >
> > > Note:    Report processing is not slowed down by using Basic
syntax.
> > Reports
> > > using Basic syntax formulas can run on any machine that Crystal
> Reports
> > runs
> > > on. Also, using Basic syntax formulas does not require
distributing
> any
> > > additional files with your reports.
> > >
> > > <<<<- Quoting CR Help ->>>
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Drew Wutka" <DWUTKA at marlow.com>
> > > To: <accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
> > > Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2003 10:27 AM
> > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Access and Crystal Reports
> > >
> > >
> > > > Very good point.  I've watched this thread from the outside, for
> two
> > > > reasons.  I personally have never made a CR report, and at best
I
> > consider
> > > > myself an 'amatuer' at report generation in Access.  When it
comes
> to
> > > making
> > > > reports in Access, I can do some pretty nifty stuff with code,
> making
> > > > stupendous 'special' reports.  However, there are people where I
> work
> > that
> > > > do nothing but generate reports using the wizards, and then
> tweaking
> all
> > > > sorts of things.  I have had to go into these reports from time
to
> time,
> > > and
> > > > I must admit that they get them to do exactly what they want
with
> > > relatively
> > > > little fuss.  That is why I consider myself an amatuer at the
> report
> > > level,
> > > > because half the time I would have jumped to VBA....(go figure),
> instead
> > > of
> > > > using the solutions that were used.
> > > >
> > > > One question.  Does CR have a 'program' language that you can
run
> in
> the
> > > > background of a report?  (Not just macro like, but VBA like,
where
> you
> > can
> > > > interface with the OS if you want type stuff....)
> > > >
> > > > Drew
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Wortz, Charles [mailto:CWortz at tea.state.tx.us]
> > > > Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 7:13 AM
> > > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com
> > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Access and Crystal Reports
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Shamil,
> > > >
> > > > True, CR allows independent sections in reports, and true this
can
> be
> a
> > > > useful feature.  But in my experience there never has been a
> report
> that
> > > > I had to create that needed this feature.
> > > >
> > > > My last word on this thread is this:  Since everybody's previous
> > > > experiences and personal preferences are different, there is no
> one
> best
> > > > tool for everybody.  Of the tools that are available to you and
> you
> are
> > > > comfortable using, try to pick the one that is most suitable for
> the
> > > > problem at hand.
> > > >
> > > > Have a nice day Shamil.
> > > >
> > > > Charles Wortz
> > > > Software Development Division
> > > > Texas Education Agency
> > > > 1701 N. Congress Ave
> > > > Austin, TX 78701-1494
> > > > 512-463-9493
> > > > CWortz at tea.state.tx.us
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Shamil Salakhetdinov [mailto:shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru]
> > > > Sent: Thursday 2003 Mar 06 15:59
> > > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com
> > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and Crystal Reports
> > > >
> > > > > Access 2002 and CR 9.0 are
> > > > > almost identical in their feature sets.
> > > > Charles,
> > > >
> > > > I thought the same but then I made approx. 50 real-life CR
reports
> for
> > > > HRM/Payroll system and my customer was a real guru in both
> HRM/Payroll
> > > > programming/reporting and CR itself (I worked as his
> subcontractor) -
> > > > and I soon realized that despite the fact that the feature set
of
> MS
> > > > Access and CR seems to be very similar, the real power of CR is
in
> its
> > > > unique and looking at first not very significant feature of
> allowing
> to
> > > > have and manipulate on runtime of several (as many as you wish)
> > > > independent sections/areas of Report Header/Footer, Page
> Header/Footer,
> > > > Group Header/Footer and Details...
> > > >
> > > > The only area where I've found MS Access "beats" CR 8.x, which I
> used,
> > > > is when you need in CR to copy and paste (or cut and paste) a
> group of
> > > > controls within one report or between reports - here CR
sometimes
> goes
> > > > "crazy" and you need to realigh controls manualy after paste
> > > > operation...
> > > >
> > > > Charles, I'd not like to have this thread to become"religious"
> debate
> > > > "CR vs. MS Access report generator" - let's stop it? - after
your
> > > > contr-arguments if you wish! :)
> > > >
> > > > Shamil
> > > > _______________________________________________
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