Andy Lacey
andy at minstersystems.co.uk
Wed Oct 1 03:10:57 CDT 2003
Talk of walking away is fine if you have someone else to walk to. If you
have a choice, say, of this client or going out of business then you
have to carry on.
We had a client who wanted to do this and we managed to talk them out of
the penalty clause thing. Don't try to impose one on them (they won't
agree) but instead explain that it's not in THEIR best interest. It goes
like this:
With a penalty clause in place you will be forced to turn down ALL
change requests. Financially you will HAVE to do what is in the spec
(which they will have to agree and sign up for before the clock starts
ticking of course) and not a jot more. Add this field? No, sorry. Knock
up an extra report? No chance. Say that while normally there would be
some latitude to be flexible in this case you won't be able to. You will
bring it in on-time, sure, and they'll be pleased about that, but will
they get just what they want? Your experience (and everyone else's)
shows that when a customer sees a system, or just a screen, the first
thing he wants to do is ask for this or that to change. With financial
penalties in the frame this will not be an option. And spell that out in
the contract. And if something works as per spec but is not what they
imagined - tough.
It might scare them off the idea. It did ours.
If it doesn't work then the other question is, of course, can you do it
in the time? Do you have people working on it who will bust a gut to
make sure you're inside the time limit?
Andy Lacey
http://www.minstersystems.co.uk
> -----Original Message-----
> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
> Hadyn Morgan
> Sent: 01 October 2003 05:39
> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
> Subject: RE: [AccessD] Project Official Start
>
>
> The client does not want to pay for the time to write a spec.
> We have spent the last 2 weeks doing this at our own cost.
> It is based on a web application that was built and paid for
> on an hourly basis, because again they did not want to pay
> for a spec. ~40% of the cost of it could have been avoided
> on the stuff they requested then changed their minds about.
>
> They have paid a premium so far (our largest customer to
> date), and I would like to keep them as a client. Then again
> I don't want to be royally screwed either :(
>
> Hadyn
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of
> Christopher Hawkins
> Sent: Wednesday, 1 October 2003 15:49
> To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com
> Subject: RE: [AccessD] Project Official Start
>
>
> You can still walk away from a client like this, and should -
> 1999 be damned.
>
> IMHO, a client that is trying to negotiate penalty clauses
> before defining what it is the developer is supposed to be
> developing is a client looking to screw a developer and get
> something for nothing. This is a HUGE red flag.
>
> -Christopher-
>
> ---- Original Message ----
> From: Developer at ultradnt.com
> To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com,
> Subject: RE: [AccessD] Project Official Start
> Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 23:38:42 -0400
>
> >Remember the good old days of 1999 when you could just walk
> away from a
> >client like this?
> >
> >BTW - I'm a newbie, just signed on the list. (NYC-based independent
> >contractor: Access, VB, SQL, MS-Office training, and when I
> can't get
> >out of it, a little networking)
> >
> >Short answer is, when both sides have signed, that's your begin date.
> >
> >As for the penalty, YES - get their responsibilities in
> writing ... I
> >have a client who pays me to keep re-importing their old
> system's data
> >because by the time they check the import, it's a month out of date
> >and
> >they want all the new entries from the old system in the new system
> >...
> >This is going on like this for six months, It's boring as hell and
> >keeping me from getting started on their .net based intranet, but
> >... As
> >long as they are paying, it doesn't matter. In your case, though,
> >since
> >they are making noise about not paying, make sure that the "clock
> >stops"
> >when you are waiting for them to test or review or deploy or
> >whatever.
> >Try to get the wording to be a count of days from execution, since
> >you
> >could lose a month just getting the lawyers from both sides to accept
> >the document ("project will be completed 77 days from execution of
> >this
> >contract", for example).
> >
> >Hth,
> >Steve
> >
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
> Hadyn Morgan
> >Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 10:22 PM
> >To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
> >Subject: [AccessD] Project Official Start
> >
> >
> >When do you say a project has started? I have a client that
> has said
> >'Yes' to a project, but has not signed off the spec, or the
> quote, and
> >now wants to negotiate penalty clauses before they sign (if we don't
> >deliver on time to the proposed end date (11 weeks from start of
> >project) they reduce total payment by 8% for each full week we are
> >late). I have managed to get them to exclude Acts of God etc, and
> >have
> >suggested that if they are to blame for the delay we should be
> >allowed
> >to charge them for the extra time.
> >
> >Any thoughts?
> >
> >Kind regards
> >Hadyn
> >
> >---
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