[AccessD] RE: [dba-OT] Contract Work - Time Sensitive Question :x-posted d ba-OT

Arthur Fuller artful at rogers.com
Fri Aug 20 19:08:00 CDT 2004


Wow, the voice of experience! 

As a comedienne whose name eludes me once said, "I've never fallen in
love, but I have stepped in it."

I have a very brutal rule: I need a sample data set as small as possible
but that covers all the possibilities, with known results, so that I can
verify all reports etc. before shipping the version to the client.
Assuming for example five SalesTypes or somesuch, I demand one example
of each with all attendant details. Client doesn't agree to supply this
minimal data set, I fire the client. Nuff said. Get an illegal immigrant
to write the app and chase the insigificant dollars for months. It won't
be me.

As a very highly skilled painter once said to me, "Let the others do the
two-bedroom apartments. I hold out for the mansions." And you know what?
It worked! He had all the work he could handle. People doing $100K
renovations would wait a month to hire him instead of going with someone
else who was cheaper and available now. Among other things, he taught me
how to paint doors and window frames so they look as smooth as glass.

The hardest lesson in this business is how to recognize and fire the
unprofitable clients.

Arthur

-----Original Message-----
From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby
Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 11:14 AM
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
Subject: RE: [AccessD] RE: [dba-OT] Contract Work - Time Sensitive
Question :x-posted d ba-OT


If this truly is "once off" then it is better to lose the job than get
it and get sucked into a quagmire.

Ask them over the phone BEFORE any meetings to get together the data
that needs to be looked at, draw up a report structure they would like
to see, the list of tables and databases that it comes from.  If they
know it is "coming from several databases" then they must have some
knowledge of this.

Schedule a meeting.  GIVE them one hour free of charge, plus travel
time. Look at what they need and try to nail down in your own mind what
is involved.  At the end of that hour you should be able to tell them
roughly how big a job it is.  Tell them.  Be prepared BEFORE you go in
with what you want on an hourly basis.  Then you can tell them X hours
times Y dollars.  

Don't worry if they never call back.  If they don't call back you don't
want to work for them.  The biggest thing to remember is that clients
who "don't want to pay much" are a royal PITA with no real concept of
what is involved and you are well done with them.

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com 

-----Original Message-----
From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mitsules,
Mark S. (Newport News)
Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 9:44 AM
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
Subject: RE: [AccessD] RE: [dba-OT] Contract Work - Time Sensitive
Question
: x-posted d ba-OT


There are a myriad of potential problems I see going into this...I'm
just hoping I don't talk myself out of it before I give it a chance.
Primarily, I'm assuming that the work will have to be done on-site due
to the sensitive nature of the data.  That alone raises time issues...I
have a 40-hour job already...are they going to be willing to allow me to
work late into the evening or on weekends outside of "their" normal
working hours?

Mark


-----Original Message-----
From: Pickering, Stephen [mailto:Stephen.Pickering at caremark.com] 
Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 9:16 AM
To: 'dba-ot at databaseadvisors.com'; [AccessD]
Subject: [AccessD] RE: [dba-OT] Contract Work - Time Sensitive Question
: x-posted d ba-OT


<kidding> Danger, Will Robinson!  Danger!! </kidding>

I don't know how universal it is, but for me, a good rule of thumb has
been
this:  If the client thinks it should be easy, it will be very complex;
if the client thinks it will be really hard to do, it will be very easy,
and the client will be easily impressed.

I would give them an hourly rate for you to do an analysis of what they
need and what the environment is.  Take this information to give them an
estimate, based on time and materials, for you to complete the task.
Provide an additional estimate for your time with beta testing issues
and support, if need be.

This sounds like a lot, I know, for what seems like a simple task.
Sometimes, however, it is the simple tasks that mutate from scope creep,
and you find yourself in a never-ending quagmire where you don't get
paid for your work, and neither you nor the client is happy.

HTH,

Steve



----- Mark S. Mitsules' Original Message-----
 
If anyone has 5-10 minutes to spare, I'd appreciate your thoughts on the
following scenario.  A co-worker has just given my name/number to a
small medical office that is looking for some custom work. The 2 second
description was "create a report based on data from several databases".

Now many of you, I'm sure, have been approached by clients who have
received several quotes of hourly rates and were put off at the high
prices and no estimation as to time of completion.  First question, how
do you address the customer's concern knowing full well that without a
fairly accurate scope of work, you would most likely have answered
similarly to everyone else?

At face value, the project seems like a cake walk;)  However, the
unknown variables have me concerned.  I'm sure many of you, when you
first began, may have started out this way, without the structure of
business licenses, contracts, insurance, etc.  What I'm politely asking
is, what is an acceptable way for me to approach this?  At the moment,
this is a one-off situation that I would like to handle in the simplest
manner possible. Again, politely, what I'm not asking for is suggestions
to hire an attorney, an accountant, set up an LLC, etc.  In the short
term, many people have worked this way in the past successfully...I'm
just hoping to get some idea of best practices.

Thank you,


Mark
 
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