Heenan, Lambert
Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com
Tue Dec 7 15:36:27 CST 2004
The SDK download is indeed a complete package with which you can develop .NET applications, but though you get comprehensive documentation, there is no IDE. You will be using the command line compiler for C# and you will have to provide your own editor. Not too big a burden considering there are at least three free IDE's out there: Sharp Develop. http://www.icsharpcode.net/OpenSource/SD/ Mono. http://www.mono-project.com/about/index.html and Borland C# Builder (free for personal use). http://www.borland.com/products/downloads/download_cbuilder.html Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [SMTP:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lawhon, Alan C > Contractor/Morgan Research > Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 3:55 PM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com; accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] RE: [dba-VB] Please Advise: Should I Buy > "Microsoft Visual Basic.NET Standard 2003 ..." > > Richard: > > I do not mean to question what you're telling me, but I want to make > absolutely sure that we're both on the same wavelength. I understand > that the .NET "Framework" simply provides the .NET runtime environment, > (and NOT the various .Net developer tools - such as ASP.NET, ADO.NET, > and VB.NET - among others). > > What I am specifically asking about is the information at this: > > http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=9b3a2ca6-3647-4 > 070-9f41-a333c6b9181d&displaylang=en > > Microsoft download site, where the following descriptive text appears > verbatim: > > Quote: > > .NET Framework SDK Version 1.1 > > The Microsoft® .NET Framework Software Development Kit (SDK) version 1.1 > includes everything developers need to write, build, test, and deploy .NET > Framework applications - documentation, samples, and command-line tools > and compilers. > > End Quote: > > Of course, trying to decipher Microsoft marketing hyperbole can be > something of an exercise in futility, but when you read this statement > word-for-word, they do use the words "... everything developers need ..." > (among others) and they ARE describing a "Software Developer Kit" (SDK) > product. Also, the SDK download is approximately 106 Megabytes - which is > quite a bucket of bits! (Pardon the pun ...) The .NET Framework (by > itself) is just a tad over 20 Megabytes. (I know this for a fact because > the .NET Framework [download] appears as an "optional download" when I run > Windows Update on my home computer. > > My question boils down to this: Are you SURE (really sure) that the > "Microsoft .NET Framework Software Development Kit (SDK) version 1.1" > [download] is merely the .NET runtime environment? (If that is all it is, > what is the extra 86 Megabytes and why is Microsoft using terms like > "command-line tools and compilers" as well as "write, build, test, and > deploy .NET Framework applications ..." in their description of the > product? > > If this SDK can be used as a relatively inexpensive (or free) "learning > tool" to help me learn (and write) VB.NET code, then I think it would be > well worth the bother of downloading to my home computer - even on a slow > dial-up connection! > > I'm going to cross post this to the AccessD List in the hopes that > Charlotte Foust and John Colby will see it. > > Alan C. Lawhon > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Griffiths, Richard [mailto:R.Griffiths at bury.gov.uk] > Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 11:32 AM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [dba-VB] Please Advise: Should I Buy "Microsoft Visual > Basic.NET Standard 2003 ..." > > > Hi > The framework simply provides the dotnet runtime environment. To > develop you need Visual Studio .NET 2003 "Professional" Edition. I've > seen recently for about $700 and this includes windows 2003 and sql 2000 > (developer/test editions) - not bad really > Richard > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lawhon, Alan C > Contractor/Morgan Research > Sent: 07 December 2004 17:07 > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com; accessd at shaw.ca > Subject: RE: [dba-VB] Please Advise: Should I Buy "Microsoft Visual > Basic.NET Standard 2003 ..." > > Jim: > > Thanks for the .NET links & info - which I am now diligently research- > ing. I need a bit of clarification concerning one of the links you > provided. First, some background ... > > We are in the process of coming up with a recommendation for our > customer > concerning what software (and development tools) should be purchased in > order to facilitate conversion of our environmental database application > to a "web enabled" environmental database application. I also have a > secondary goal of obtaining an "affordable" .NET integrated development > environment so that I can "play around" with VB.NET, ADO.NET, ASP.NET, > (and whatever-else .NET is required), on my home computer. (I have a > feeling I can learn more at home versus all the constant "distractions" > and interruptions here at work ...) > > I have visited the link you provided to Microsoft's download site for > the (free?) ".NET Framework SDK Version 1.1" IDE. According to info > at this MS site, the 106 MB download contains "everything developers > need to write, build, test, and deploy .NET Framework applications - > documentation, samples, and command-line tools and compilers." I > presume this means that this download includes the VB.NET compiler, > ADO.NET, ASP.NET and other .NET development tools - in other words > just about everything that is bundled with Microsoft's full-up version > of Visual Studio .NET? > > What has me scratching my head is this: I went to Microsoft's "Product > Information" page for Visual Studio .NET 2003 "Professional" Edition. > > URL: http://www.microsoft.com/products/info/product.aspx?view=22&pcid= > 9fdcc2af-6b86-4ee8-9b71-90cebe8626e6&type=ovr > > and the "full up" (not upgrade) version of Visual Studio .NET lists for > $1,079.00 direct purchase from Microsoft. > > So, why is Microsoft, in effect, "giving away" the .NET Framework SDK, > (Version 1.1) "free" at one of their download sites while charging > $1,079.00 for [virtually] the same product at another Microsoft site? > Either I'm missing something here, or I'm totally confused, or > something. > > There has to be a "catch" here, because Microsoft doesn't "give away" > anything for free - or anything that is not "crippled" (or a woefully > lacking subset) of the full product. > > Have you actually downloaded (and used) the ".NET Framework SDK, > Version 1.1" product? (We are leaning toward recommending that our > customer buy a copy of the full up version of "Visual Studio .NET 2003 > Professional" edition.) > > Alan C. Lawhon > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Lawrence (AccessD) [mailto:accessd at shaw.ca] > Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 5:18 PM > To: dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [dba-VB] Please Advise: Should I Buy "Microsoft Visual > Basic .NET Standard 2003 ..." > > > Hi Alan: > > I am currently following the same route, a little further ahead but if > you > look sharp I can be seen just up the trail a bit. Following are a few of > the > options out there. The actual portion of the .Net application suite that > generates the web code is ASP.Net but the full .Net studio has ASP.Net > incorporated: > > Here is the pointer to the Asp.Net webmatrix editor and appropriate > tutorials...and it is free. > http://www.asp.net/webmatrix/tour/section2/newconn.aspx > > Sharpe Develop is IDE has Asp.Net, C#.Net and Vb.Net (Open source)...and > it > is free. http://www.icsharpcode.net/OpenSource/SD/ > > The SDK can be downloaded from M$...and it is free. > http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=9b3a2ca6-3647-4 > 070- > 9f41-a333c6b9181d&displaylang=en > > Nothing like fair pricing and a good place to start. The best OS > platform to > develop the coding and testing is on an XP or 2000 server as they have > IIS > built in and applications can test immediately. > > Good luck and have fun. > > HTH > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:dba-vb-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Lawhon, Alan C > Contractor/Morgan Research > Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 2:15 PM > To: dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > Cc: dba-AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [dba-VB] Please Advise: Should I Buy "Microsoft Visual Basic > .NET Standard 2003 ..." > > > ... or just try to learn what I can from [VB.Net] books alone? > > Well, the "future" has finally arrived ... Here at work we have a > fairly > significant environmental database application that we have been using > (and > "tweaking") for the past five years. The application, called "EDS" - > which > stands for "Environmental Document System" - started off as a very > simple > Access 97 application. Over time, as the capabilities of the system > grew > and the need to provide client/server access was realized, the front end > migrated to Access 2000 and the back end [eventually] migrated to SQL > Server > 2000 - which is where we are now. > > Well, you know how customers are ... they are always wanting changes (or > "something new") and that is the case with our customer. EDS is > becoming > increasingly popular with users outside our immediate organization. So > popular, in fact, that our Government manager has requested that we "web > enable" EDS and make EDS accessible from a web browser - such as > Internet > Explorer. Gulp !! It didn't take too much web surfing (and research) > to > realize that "web enabling" EDS is going to be thirsty work ... > > The EDS database consists of multiple form and report objects with lots > of > event driven Visual Basic code. Most of the VBA code is attached to > command > buttons as Click_Event() procedures. (There's a lot of logic testing > and > conditional execution for business rule implementation within the VBA > code.) > > The research I have done (so far) indicates that I face a steep learning > curve when it comes to web programming. I'm already looking at "HTML & > XML > for Beginners" (book) by Michael Morrison and I have just ordered a > couple > of books on databases and VB.Net programming. (I have ordered > "Beginning > VB.Net Databases" by Thearon Willis and "Programming Microsoft Visual > Basic > .NET for Microsoft Access Databases" by Rick Dobson.) I figure these > two > books will give me plenty to chew on - at least initially. > > The senior programmer and I have been looking on the internet for the > proper > .NET development tool. Right now it looks like we will be asking our > customer to pay for a full-up version of Visual Studio 2003 - or > whatever > contains the full "Professional" version of MS Visual Basic .NET. While > researching the various developer tool alternatives for VB.NET > programming, > I came across this page at Amazon.com's web site: > > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000089GKW/002-1179299-3348025 > > The "Standard" edition of Microsoft VB.Net [2003] appeals to me for two > reasons: It's (relatively) affordable - less than a hundred dollars - > and > the "Standard" edition might be a good "learning tool" for playing > around > with VB.Net on my home computer. However, the "Standard" edition > appears to > have a number of ... uhm ... limitations. (Look at Frank Spillman's > "Roadblocks, Roadblocks" reader review in the above link.) > > I would be grateful if some of the folks on this list who have actually > done > some web programming (especially with VB.Net) could offer advice and > opinions with respect to the "Microsoft Visual Basic .NET Standard 2003" > [web] development tool. Basically, I'm wondering if the "Standard" > edition > has enough capability to serve as a useful "learning tool" - or is it so > "crippled" that I would be better off simply reading .NET books? > > Thanks in advance ... > > Alan C. Lawhon > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-VB mailing list > dba-VB at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-vb > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com