[AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question

William Hindman wdhindman at bellsouth.net
Wed Mar 17 15:44:47 CST 2004


...yes and no ...convenient but a suck for bad data entry ime ...one types
in 6/1/2004 ...one types in 1/6/2004 ...one types in 1 jun 04 and tabs on
down the line, etc ...lecture me all day on dumb users but I don't have the
option of firing them ...so I pop up a small calendar every time ...if the
user enters directly in the text box, the calendar moves to the date entered
to provide visual feedback ...if he/she selects from the calendar it fills
the text box ...either way they can mouse it or keyboard it ...so no matter
whether the user is military trained (euro dating) or public school trained
(US dating you hope) or wants to type in the alpha month, I get him there
somehow so that the right date gets entered ...nothings foolproof but date
entry errors have gone to zero ...which is worth the cost of the popup to me
and my clients.

...as a side I tried this approach using the native calendar control and
could never make its speed acceptable ...after a lot of experimentation I
standardized on an older version of Drew's all vba code calendar (with some
mods) which is quite fast for my needs ...one of these days I might get
around to using his newest version but I've not found a reason to as yet :)

William Hindman
You know the world is upside down when Bill Clinton wins a Grammy and Janet
Jackson is the subject of a government sex investigation. Argus Hamilton.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Brett Barabash" <BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com>
To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'"
<accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 3:43 PM
Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question


> >I do not believe that providing a pop up calendar is incorrect especially
> as
> >the users can tab into a date field and use a keyboard in any event.
>
> You missed my point.  This is EXACTLY my sentiment.
>
> I said:
> >One of my biggest UI pet peeves is fields that disallow keyboard entry.
>
> My response was to someone who doesn't allow the user to tab into a date
> field and forces them to open up a calendar instead.  In my opinion, this
is
> a lazy way of avoiding date validation code.
>
> Have you ever used a program or website that forces you to use a calendar
to
> enter your birthdate?  (I have!)  Personally, I find it a PITA to click a
> button to open a calendar, navigate to 1975, select May from a dropdown
and
> then click on the 6.  I'd like to type 05/06/1975, but some lazy
programmer
> decided that it's way more elegant to launch a special screen to guide me
> through this complex process.
>
> OTOH, Outlook gives you several different options for date selection.  To
> schedule a meeting for tomorrow, I can type...
> 03/18/2004
> March 18, 2004
> 2004 Mar 18
> ...or click on the box next to the field if I want to see a calendar.
>
> The developers put a lot of thought into this and because of its inherent
> flexibility it is easy to use by all types of users.  I wish other pieces
of
> software were as ambitious.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jürgen Welz [mailto:jwelz at hotmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 1:45 PM
> To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com
> Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question
>
> At one point a few years ago at this list I made a similar comment saying
I
> provided a doubleclick pop up calendar and received a similar response.
As
> a result, I once logged usage of:
>
>     Double click pop up calendar
>                vs
>     Key down with form key preview on, Alt-d pops calendar if screen
active
> control had a standard input mask property.
>
> I also considered a keyboard autokeys macro call a runcode that did the
same
>
> thing but never did implement this version.
>
> Logging indicated that well over 98% of the data entry was by double click
> popup calendar.  Granted these were very 'unsophisticated' users but the
> majority of their daily tasks involved interaction with the application.
>
> I do not believe that providing a pop up calendar is incorrect especially
as
>
> the users can tab into a date field and use a keyboard in any event.
IIRC,
> I had changed the display format and input mask dynamically in the past so
> that a user could key in 'mm/dd/yy' but the display format whenever the
> control didn't have focus was 'mmm/dd/yyyy'.  I also added a label
> displaying the input format at each date entry textbox so there was never
a
> question as to the required input sequence.
>
> I also believe that one of the reasons that my users like my pop up
calendar
>
> is because it also displays appointments and blocked off dates for that
user
>
> and other office staff (selected in multiselect list).  It can be popped
by
> keyboard or by doubleclick and can be navigated by mouse or cursor or page
> keys (for months) and you can tab into a year textbox.  The months are
each
> on a tab wtih Alt-character navigation and cursoring down past the end of
> one month moves to the next month (and up to previous).  Finally, the
Enter
> keys accepts the date, sets the source textbox and dismisses the calendar
> and the Escape key dismisses the calendar without setting or changing a
> date.
>
> I am a firm believer in always providing a keyboard navigation method, but
> that never precludes adding a mouse alternative that does exactly the same
> thing.  A pop up calendar can be entirely keyboard controlled at a cost of
a
>
> few extra keystrokes for the rich graphical information that it can
present.
>
>   And just because it's there doesn't mean a user ever has to use it.  It
> just turns out that my experience is that they will even though I have a
> prejudice for preferring to use the keyboard wherever possible.  I suspect
> this prejudice afflicts most programmers.
>
> If only browers were more keyboard friendly.
>
>
> Ciao
> Jürgen Welz
> Edmonton, Alberta
> jwelz at hotmail.com
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: Brett Barabash <BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com>
> >
> >I bet the data entry people love you!
> >
> >It may "work for you", but I'll bet that there are some users out there
> >that
> >feel otherwise.  One of my biggest UI pet peeves is fields that disallow
> >keyboard entry.  One record or 1000 records, it's still annoying to move
> >your hand off of the home row of your keyboard and click around to select
a
> >date.
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Heenan, Lambert [mailto:Lambert.Heenan at aig.com]
> >Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 8:22 AM
> >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
> >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question
> >
> >
> >My solution to date entry is simple - I never let user's type in a date.
> >They always pick the date from a simple calendar form (though I don't
use
> >the MS Calendar control). Click on a date field and up pops the date
> >picker.
> >While this would not be suitable, perhaps, in applications where massive
> >numbers of dates need to be entered, I find it works just fine for me.
> >
> >Lambert
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Arthur Fuller [SMTP:artful at rogers.com]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 5:47 PM
> > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
> > > Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question
> > >
> > > The standard short date input mask (99/99/0000;0;_) has a shortcoming
> > > that I hate: you have to type 04/04/04 to get April 4th 2004. The year
> > > handling is nice but the month and day suck. The mask won't let you
type
> > > 4/4/04. Is there an alternative mask that will respond intelligently
to
> > > such input? Or should I instead just remove all the input masks from
all
> > > the date fields?
> > >
> > > TIA,
> > > Arthur
>
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