William Hindman
wdhindman at bellsouth.net
Thu Mar 18 18:58:49 CST 2004
...snore ...do while ...snore ...do while ...snore ...do while ...loop de loop :)))))) William Hindman You know the world is upside down when Bill Clinton wins a Grammy and Janet Jackson is the subject of a government sex investigation. Argus Hamilton. ----- Original Message ----- From: <DWUTKA at marlow.com> To: <accessd at databaseadvisors.com> Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 12:28 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > Wait until I get that thing finished....THEN you'll have a reason to try my > new one.... grin. Of course, you'll probably complain about how 'un-mini' > it is...LOL! > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William > Hindman > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 3:45 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > ...yes and no ...convenient but a suck for bad data entry ime ...one types > in 6/1/2004 ...one types in 1/6/2004 ...one types in 1 jun 04 and tabs on > down the line, etc ...lecture me all day on dumb users but I don't have the > option of firing them ...so I pop up a small calendar every time ...if the > user enters directly in the text box, the calendar moves to the date entered > to provide visual feedback ...if he/she selects from the calendar it fills > the text box ...either way they can mouse it or keyboard it ...so no matter > whether the user is military trained (euro dating) or public school trained > (US dating you hope) or wants to type in the alpha month, I get him there > somehow so that the right date gets entered ...nothings foolproof but date > entry errors have gone to zero ...which is worth the cost of the popup to me > and my clients. > > ...as a side I tried this approach using the native calendar control and > could never make its speed acceptable ...after a lot of experimentation I > standardized on an older version of Drew's all vba code calendar (with some > mods) which is quite fast for my needs ...one of these days I might get > around to using his newest version but I've not found a reason to as yet :) > > William Hindman > You know the world is upside down when Bill Clinton wins a Grammy and Janet > Jackson is the subject of a government sex investigation. Argus Hamilton. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brett Barabash" <BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com> > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > <accessd at databaseadvisors.com> > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 3:43 PM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > >I do not believe that providing a pop up calendar is incorrect especially > > as > > >the users can tab into a date field and use a keyboard in any event. > > > > You missed my point. This is EXACTLY my sentiment. > > > > I said: > > >One of my biggest UI pet peeves is fields that disallow keyboard entry. > > > > My response was to someone who doesn't allow the user to tab into a date > > field and forces them to open up a calendar instead. In my opinion, this > is > > a lazy way of avoiding date validation code. > > > > Have you ever used a program or website that forces you to use a calendar > to > > enter your birthdate? (I have!) Personally, I find it a PITA to click a > > button to open a calendar, navigate to 1975, select May from a dropdown > and > > then click on the 6. I'd like to type 05/06/1975, but some lazy > programmer > > decided that it's way more elegant to launch a special screen to guide me > > through this complex process. > > > > OTOH, Outlook gives you several different options for date selection. To > > schedule a meeting for tomorrow, I can type... > > 03/18/2004 > > March 18, 2004 > > 2004 Mar 18 > > ...or click on the box next to the field if I want to see a calendar. > > > > The developers put a lot of thought into this and because of its inherent > > flexibility it is easy to use by all types of users. I wish other pieces > of > > software were as ambitious. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jürgen Welz [mailto:jwelz at hotmail.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 1:45 PM > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > At one point a few years ago at this list I made a similar comment saying > I > > provided a doubleclick pop up calendar and received a similar response. > As > > a result, I once logged usage of: > > > > Double click pop up calendar > > vs > > Key down with form key preview on, Alt-d pops calendar if screen > active > > control had a standard input mask property. > > > > I also considered a keyboard autokeys macro call a runcode that did the > same > > > > thing but never did implement this version. > > > > Logging indicated that well over 98% of the data entry was by double click > > popup calendar. Granted these were very 'unsophisticated' users but the > > majority of their daily tasks involved interaction with the application. > > > > I do not believe that providing a pop up calendar is incorrect especially > as > > > > the users can tab into a date field and use a keyboard in any event. > IIRC, > > I had changed the display format and input mask dynamically in the past so > > that a user could key in 'mm/dd/yy' but the display format whenever the > > control didn't have focus was 'mmm/dd/yyyy'. I also added a label > > displaying the input format at each date entry textbox so there was never > a > > question as to the required input sequence. > > > > I also believe that one of the reasons that my users like my pop up > calendar > > > > is because it also displays appointments and blocked off dates for that > user > > > > and other office staff (selected in multiselect list). It can be popped > by > > keyboard or by doubleclick and can be navigated by mouse or cursor or page > > keys (for months) and you can tab into a year textbox. The months are > each > > on a tab wtih Alt-character navigation and cursoring down past the end of > > one month moves to the next month (and up to previous). Finally, the > Enter > > keys accepts the date, sets the source textbox and dismisses the calendar > > and the Escape key dismisses the calendar without setting or changing a > > date. > > > > I am a firm believer in always providing a keyboard navigation method, but > > that never precludes adding a mouse alternative that does exactly the same > > thing. A pop up calendar can be entirely keyboard controlled at a cost of > a > > > > few extra keystrokes for the rich graphical information that it can > present. > > > > And just because it's there doesn't mean a user ever has to use it. It > > just turns out that my experience is that they will even though I have a > > prejudice for preferring to use the keyboard wherever possible. I suspect > > this prejudice afflicts most programmers. > > > > If only browers were more keyboard friendly. > > > > > > Ciao > > Jürgen Welz > > Edmonton, Alberta > > jwelz at hotmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: Brett Barabash <BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com> > > > > > >I bet the data entry people love you! > > > > > >It may "work for you", but I'll bet that there are some users out there > > >that > > >feel otherwise. One of my biggest UI pet peeves is fields that disallow > > >keyboard entry. One record or 1000 records, it's still annoying to move > > >your hand off of the home row of your keyboard and click around to select > a > > >date. > > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > >From: Heenan, Lambert [mailto:Lambert.Heenan at aig.com] > > >Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 8:22 AM > > >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > > > > > >My solution to date entry is simple - I never let user's type in a date. > > >They always pick the date from a simple calendar form (though I don't > use > > >the MS Calendar control). Click on a date field and up pops the date > > >picker. > > >While this would not be suitable, perhaps, in applications where massive > > >numbers of dates need to be entered, I find it works just fine for me. > > > > > >Lambert > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Arthur Fuller [SMTP:artful at rogers.com] > > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 5:47 PM > > > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > > > Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > > > > > The standard short date input mask (99/99/0000;0;_) has a shortcoming > > > > that I hate: you have to type 04/04/04 to get April 4th 2004. The year > > > > handling is nice but the month and day suck. The mask won't let you > type > > > > 4/4/04. Is there an alternative mask that will respond intelligently > to > > > > such input? Or should I instead just remove all the input masks from > all > > > > the date fields? > > > > > > > > TIA, > > > > Arthur > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------ > > The information in this email may contain confidential information that > > is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended > > recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you > > are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the > taking > > of any action in regard to the content of this fax is strictly prohibited. > If > > transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the > sender > > immediately. 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