DWUTKA at marlow.com
DWUTKA at marlow.com
Thu Mar 25 14:05:07 CST 2004
Those arguments conflict with each other. The 'lookups' should only affect
a field in datasheet view. Therefore, if you say that it's a performance
hit, you can't say that users shouldn't be looking at tables, because it
wouldn't be a performance hit otherwise. How are they a lazy programmers
crutch? If I have a table, that lists the fifty states, and I have several
tables that require the state, putting the 'lookup' information into each
table is going to save me a LOT of time down the road, as I build forms for
those tables. Is it lazy to save development time? (I'd love to see
someone argue that one...because telling a customer you charged them an
extra hour, to setup comboboxes/listboxes for 50 forms, instead of doing it
2 or 3 times for 2 or three tables wouldn't get very far).
Also, how does it bloat your database? I'm going to have to test that. I
don't see how it could. If it really does bloat the db, then that's a valid
argument, but it's also VERY poor design on MS's part.
Drew
-----Original Message-----
From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte
Foust
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 1:39 PM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question
For one thing, it can cause a lot of confusion among users who insist
they have entered a particular string in a field and don't understand
why they can't find it in a query. No, Virginia, the query isn't
broken, but you're looking for the displayed value instead of the actual
value, which is numeric! Why use something that shouldn't be needed and
is just a lazy programmer's crutch in the first place. Users should NOT
be looking at tables and developers should know better.
They also add a level of querying that affects the performance and bloat
of the database. Each one of the innocuous looking lookups is actually
a SQL statement retrieving information from another table. Toss with a
handful of "useful" automatic subdatasheets, and your performance goes
out the window.
Charlotte Foust
-----Original Message-----
From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net]
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 10:39 AM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question
Oh, you mean the field property setting that then makes any controls
based on that field have the lookup table/query fields preset to be a
combo, list box, etc.?
What the heck, I'll throw it out there, I haven't seen a debate on this
one yet :o)
I though it was a pretty hokey "feature" at first. IIRC correctly R:Base
did this for you automatically if you placed a combo on a form that had
a primary/foreign key relationship. In other words it actually used the
entity relationships to do it for you.
I don't generally use it but about the only thing I can think of hand is
that it is not dynamic (in A97-I've never even looked into in A2k+).
I did use this once in a situation (A97) where I had to allow for local
user customization and I didn't trust any of the local users to have a
clue beyond the card game. I figured they would get as far as opening
datasheets and never figure out how to create forms so I set a lookup
for every primary/foreign key relationship just because it would force
the datasheets to display the values rather than the autonumberIDs. I
had a few break on me there which is why I don't generally use them.
What else in wrong with it?
John "lighting fires" B.
-----Original Message-----
From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 12:03 PM
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question
No. :) I'm talking about the built-in lookup field feature that lets you
display a related value from another table. Open a table in Design view
and click the Lookup tab in the Properties pane.
Developers soundly trash them, but I find them rather cool -- and if
abused, is that Access's fault? ;) I'm mostly in favor of anything that
makes Access more available to the average user -- it IS a desktop
application after all.
No, I don't use them, and I often have to "undo" them in Northwind when
I'm using that db in an article example, but I can see why users would
like and use them.
Here we goooooooooooooooooooo! ;)
Susan H.
Susan,
I've seen people joke about this before and I've just assumed I knew
what they were referring to ("hard coded" delimited lists that are not
stored in a table).
Is this a correct assumption?
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