Charlotte Foust
cfoust at infostatsystems.com
Fri May 21 12:17:18 CDT 2004
Some of the people who "teach" Access don't know the basics of relational design in Access. A lot of them are "Office" instructors who have only the most rudimentary understanding of Access and database design. Keep in mind that "application" instructors don't even have to experts, they just need a degree in something to qualify to teach. I know because someone tried to recruit me for that for a community college. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:24 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Actually I think that talking about Access training/experience is a valid topic. Recently, I have helped a friend with his Access 'homework' from his MIS course. I worked cheap (for beer <grin>), but it just kills me what they are having students do. The 'instructions' for the assignments has them naming tables with spaces, setting unnecessary size limitations for text fields, etc. Just plain ugly. In fact one instruction was so goofy, I completely bypassed what they were trying to do, and wrote some VBA to have the same result. It is just flat out amazing that the world moves as it does. <grin> Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Clark Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:35 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to get a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even have to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. What might actually work in our field--actually programming, networking, etc.--is an apprentiship program. This way a newbie in the field would get the benefit of working with someone who has been through the ringers a few times. And it would be good for a veteran to have an extra hand sometimes. I actually unofficially had a mentor, which I didn't even think about, until after I started this Email. I had attended a community college, in their computer science curriculum, which there meant 'programming'. During some late evenings in the computer lab, just at the times when I'd be ripping my hair out trying to figure something out, this quy would show up and help us. Two other students and myself referred to him as, "The Saint," because it was uncanny how he always seemed to appear, just when we needed help the most. It turned out this guy was director of acedemic computing, and he, as I was told by him and one of my professors, "kept an eye out for students who went beyond their work, and showed a desire to learn more." After getting my associates degree, I couldn't decide exactly what I direction I wanted to go for my bachelors degree, so I went back to the community college for a math degree, while I decided. One of my previous professors asked to speak with me one day and then proceded to tell me that this guy--the 'Saint'--was looking for me. I found him and it turned out he offered me a job, at the college. I actually worked two jobs, because he could only give me a part time job at full pay, but because I was still a student, he could also give me another student job--actually same job, but two different titles and two very distant wages. I also did some 'free' work their too--they ran out of money one semester, but they were installing a network, so I volunteered for the knowledge, which was actually the best pay I got there. I learned all the tech knowledge and network knowledge from working with this guy. I'm sure this would never happen, but we can always ponder what might make things better. Sorry for the ramble--that soapbox came out of nowhere--I didn't even feel myself get lifted onto it, until it was too late! See, I really need to get on that OT list! John W Clark >>> artful at rogers.com 5/20/2004 8:31:31 PM >>> More seriously, this app has caused me to rethink the virtues of certification. No BE! No PKs! No FK indexes! No wonder the bloddy app was slow with only 20 users on a net! Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com