DWUTKA at marlow.com
DWUTKA at marlow.com
Mon May 24 10:01:58 CDT 2004
Really, I'm serious. ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 7:15 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >I know I seem argumentative sometimes, ... No! Really? ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:32 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various I feel the same way. Even when arguing with JC, I get a LOT out of it. I know I seem argumentative sometimes, but it's the best way for me to change my way of thinking. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mark A Matte Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 12:12 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various Hello All, In reading this chain...(the mentor part)...I realized something: I've worked (consulting and as employee) for some major companies...and typically it was around different dbs(informix,sql,db2,etc.) but always about the data. I have always used Access to manage creating the reports,processes, or data pulls...and then just gave a working copy to their IT department...and let them build in whatever platform they wanted. I have even created a few...somewhat robust...apps using just Access. My knowledge and skill sets have grown in leaps and bounds...due to one thing...other than the Access Help. I don't any certs or degrees or any Access training...and have to attribute my ability and my job to my drive to learn, ability to analyze anything...but foremost...this list. This list is the reason my company(and a few others from the past) considers me a 'problem solver' and an expert on anything to do with dbs or apps.(yes they exaggerate, but I accept it). Maybe its just me...but in a way...this list...and the people on it have been my mentors. Thanks to everyone. Mark A. Matte >From: "Steve Conklin (Developer at UltraDNT)" <Developer at ultradnt.com> >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving<accessd at databaseadvisors.com> >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem >solving'"<accessd at databaseadvisors.com> >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various >Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 12:54:15 -0400 > >Thinking back, I have to agree with the mentoring idea. It was >accidental, but I just happened to have a great 1st teacher for Access, >who became a mentor. (this was during the 2.0 to 95 migration era) >I went to him with my first application, which of course didn't work. >He told me to delete all my forms, despite my protestations, and >explained why they were useless since I didn't know yet thing one about >table design. >Until I learned something about relational theory, I never created any >forms. His enduring quote was that "only if you get the table design >right, can you make a decent application" > >Steve > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of >DWUTKA at marlow.com >Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 12:24 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >Actually I think that talking about Access training/experience is a >valid topic. > >Recently, I have helped a friend with his Access 'homework' from his MIS >course. I worked cheap (for beer <grin>), but it just kills me what >they are having students do. The 'instructions' for the assignments has >them naming tables with spaces, setting unnecessary size limitations for >text fields, etc. Just plain ugly. In fact one instruction was so >goofy, I completely bypassed what they were trying to do, and wrote some >VBA to have the same result. > >It is just flat out amazing that the world moves as it does. <grin> > >Drew > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Clark >Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:35 AM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various > > >I don't think certs are the answer either Arthur--it is too easy to get >a certification, and they push you through to fast. You don't even have >to produce anything original to get a cert--just do their stupid >exercises in the back of the chapters. And, I have seen certified >people, both programmers and network admins, do stupid stuff. > >What might actually work in our field--actually programming, networking, >etc.--is an apprentiship program. This way a newbie in the field would >get the benefit of working with someone who has been through the ringers >a few times. And it would be good for a veteran to have an extra hand >sometimes. > >I actually unofficially had a mentor, which I didn't even think about, >until after I started this Email. I had attended a community college, in >their computer science curriculum, which there meant 'programming'. >During some late evenings in the computer lab, just at the times when >I'd be ripping my hair out trying to figure something out, this quy >would show up and help us. Two other students and myself referred to him >as, "The Saint," because it was uncanny how he always seemed to appear, >just when we needed help the most. It turned out this guy was director >of acedemic computing, and he, as I was told by him and one of my >professors, "kept an eye out for students who went beyond their work, >and showed a desire to learn more." After getting my associates degree, >I couldn't decide exactly what I direction I wanted to go for my >bachelors degree, so I went back to the community college for a math >degree, while I decided. One of my previous professors asked to speak >with me one day and then proceded to tell me that this guy--the >'Saint'--was looking for me. I found him and it turned out he offered me >a job, at the college. I actually worked two jobs, because he could only >give me a part time job at full pay, but because I was still a student, >he could also give me another student job--actually same job, but two >different titles and two very distant wages. I also did some 'free' work >their too--they ran out of money one semester, but they were installing >a network, so I volunteered for the knowledge, which was actually the >best pay I got there. I learned all the tech knowledge and network >knowledge from working with this guy. > >I'm sure this would never happen, but we can always ponder what might >make things better. > >Sorry for the ramble--that soapbox came out of nowhere--I didn't even >feel myself get lifted onto it, until it was too late! See, I really >need to get on that OT list! > >John W Clark > > > >>> artful at rogers.com 5/20/2004 8:31:31 PM >>> > >More seriously, this app has caused me to rethink the virtues of >certification. No BE! No PKs! No FK indexes! No wonder the bloddy app >was slow with only 20 users on a net! > > >Arthur > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ Get 200+ ad-free, high-fidelity stations and LIVE Major League Baseball Gameday Audio! http://radio.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200491ave/direct/01/ -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com