[AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various

Christopher Hawkins clh at christopherhawkins.com
Thu May 27 19:05:38 CDT 2004


Post it up again!  It might get a new lease on life now that we don't
have that Text field size flamewar to distract us anymore.  ;)

-Christopher-

---- Original Message ----
From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com
To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, 
Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various
Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 19:05:32 -0400

>>Whatever happened to the WithEvents discussion(s) ... I was actually
>learning things from that
>
>Nice to hear that.  The answer is, I got very busy and no one else 
>seems to
>want to contribute on the subject.  ;-)
>
>JWColby
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Steve 
>Conklin
>(Developer at UltraDNT)
>Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 2:36 PM
>To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
>Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various
>
>
>Personally, I stick with 50 on all text fields because I'm admittedly
>lazy.  if there's a spec for field called "notes", then I go to 255 
>or
>maybe memo.  If I get a call/complaint, ever, I bump it to 255.
>Anything with 255 that gets a call, goes to memo.  The hoops you went
>through here are not a fair comparison to just a quick visit to 
>Access'
>table design.  It is a 30 second change most of the time for the 
>table
>design (forms and reports aside). I just don't see this as a big 
>deal,
>there are thousands of  things a "bad" developer might do that would 
>irk
>me more than this.
>
>BUT ...
>
>Whatever happened to the WithEvents discussion(s) ... I was actually
>learning things from that, as opposed this non-stop debate over
>relatively inconsequential minutiae.    This thread had devolved 
>into a
>waste of bits and bandwidth.
>
>Steve
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
>DWUTKA at marlow.com
>Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 12:25 PM
>To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com
>Subject: RE: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various
>
>
>I don't know about you Francisco, but I like to get things running 
>the
>first time.  When someone asks me to work on a system built by 
>someone
>else, then they have problems due to the original developers design, 
>I
>know that it wasn't my fault, but some customers may go 'It worked
>before, now you broke it'.
>
>Yes, I just had to increase a field size, which only took about an 
>hour
>and a half to do. (Why?  Because the original 'size limit' was set in
>Access. The system was then ported to SQL Server.  The original size
>limit of 35 characters (for a field to describe the exact location 
>where
>an accident
>occurred) was ported into SQL server also.  The IT department at the
>company running this thing refused to make the change in field size
>(long story, not really the IT departments fault, they were banned 
>from
>messing with the project, for a while).  So I had a little web based
>'interface' to the SQL Server.  Unfortunately, it didn't allow for
>actual field 'changes'.  I could 'add' and 'delete' fields.  So I 
>had to
>make a temp field, run an update query to transfer the data into the
>temp field.  delete the old field, make a new field with same name, 
>and
>longer field size, update the data back into the original field, and
>then delete the old field.  With the amount of data involved, and the
>delays in doing it through the 'web interface', it took about an hour
>and a half (though I admit was fixing two fields, but it would have
>taken just about as long for just that one).
>
>So in the end, you're right, it was an easy fix, because I got $150 
>for
>fixing it.  No sweat off of my back, because I got paid to fix it.
>
>However, an interesting twist to this incident, that $150 was out of
>pocket for the original developer, NOT the client.  The client bought
>the system from the original developer.  The original developer 
>hired me
>to create an ASP interface for a portion of his system.  I did that.
>The client paid for it, then paid for him to port it to SQL Server.  
>I
>was paid to modify my system to pay for SQL Server.  The system 
>works,
>but they have issues that have cropped up due to severe design flaws 
>in
>the original system.  Since they have paid for the completely 
>project,
>he has to get the system running. Anything where my code 'should' 
>work,
>and isn't, I fix for free (so far, only have had a few issues with
>handling single and double quotes). Everything else is due to the
>original database design. I fixed the field size issue, because the
>original developer is not very adept at working with SQL server
>remotely.
>
>Now think about that, is setting a field size limit to something 
>close
>to where you think your client won't exceed worth $150 a pop?
>
>Drew
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
>[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Francisco H
>Tapia
>Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 5:55 PM
>To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
>Subject: Re: [AccessD] On DB Bloat, Bad DB Design, and various
>
>
>
>DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote On 5/26/2004 3:37 PM:
>
>>There ya go, throwing fuel on the fire! <evilgrin>
>>
>>Actually, it's kind of a battle over 'bad practice' again.  JC and I
>>have both been burned (In my case several times, within just the 
>past
>>few
>months)
>>by a previous developer setting some arbitrary field size limit.
>>However, the only issue we have heard so far with setting it to 255 
>was
>
>>Charlotte
>had
>>a Query too complex error, which is intriguing, to say the least.  
>But
>>I haven't heard other incidents like that, so it may have been an
>>isolated incident.
>>
>>
>How were you burned? you just had to increase a field size, how
>difficult was that?
>
>--
>-Francisco
>
>
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