Dan Waters
dwaters at usinternet.com
Tue Apr 26 10:55:23 CDT 2005
This is from www.uspatentinfo.com/Faq6_PatentProcess.html. The first Article of the U.S. Constitution, Section VIII, provides the basis for the U.S. patent system. [U.S. Constitution, Article I, Section 8, clause 8]. In this article, the Founding Fathers granted to Congress the power to form a system "to promote the progress of Science and useful arts by securing for limited terms to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries." So - it looks like the basis for authors and inventors holding exclusive rights is in the constitution, not just in federal law. Dan Waters -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 10:10 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Copyright Ownership (was: Client Payment Methods) Hi Penn, Unfortunately I don't have any specific references I can point you to. This is based on a discussion I once had with my patent attorney, and some other things I've read along the way. Basically, if you create software applications then you are an author in the same way that a book is written by an author. If you buy a book, we all know that we could re-sell it, but cannot make copies and re-sell those copies. Only the author has the right to do that. There is a strong element in federal law that says that only the original inventor or author can hold a patent or copyright. That person can assign rights to a company, but that must be explicitly done by contract. For example, when I have worked as a Design Engineer, I was required as a condition of employment to agree to assign all rights to any inventions I created to the company I was working for. Without that agreement, anything I invented, even if it was directly related to the company and I did it on company time using their tools and equipment, would have been mine alone. I would guess that many people on this list who have been hired as developers signed a similar agreement relating to copyright and ownership of the software they developed. Hope this helps! Dan Waters -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Penn White Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 6:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Client Payment Methods Dan, et. al. I've been lurking along in this thread and it has been brilliant. Thank you very much. Dan, would you mind posting some source references on your last point about copyright? Rather than selling services exactly, I'm hoping to sell a 'niche-market' program but there will be a yearly maintenance/upgrade fee and client-specific enhancements will be billed separately. Sounds like using a total hour scheme broken down into monthly payments for a big enhancement or a single price (but still hours-based) w/ maybe 1/3 up front, 1/3 when half done and 1/3 at completion might be a good business model? Penn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Waters" <dwaters at usinternet.com> To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" <accessd at databaseadvisors.com> Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 9:48 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Client Payment Methods > On Ownership: > > If you wrote it for them without a contract then they own that one copy > but > not the copyright. Even if you don't talk about it or put copyright into > your database or literature. They can sell the copy they have to someone > else, but they can't keep a copy for themselves. > > Without a contract you own the copyright. You can copy what you made for > them as many times as you like and sell it for whatever you can get to > whomever you like. > > Only a contract between you and them can change any of the above. > > All the best! > Dan Waters > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kath Pelletti > Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 6:38 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Client Payment Methods > > Thanks Dan - I don't contract to them - I just write each system for a > fee - > I always work on the basis that I own them and so far no client has wanted > to challenge that stance. (I know from previous discussions on the list > that > ownership is no simple matter..) > > Thanks for the details - > Kath > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Dan Waters > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 12:48 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Client Payment Methods > > > Hi Kath, > > I talked with an accountant this morning. He said that a capitalized > software purchase is depreciated over 3 years (straight-line). This > 'seems' > to indicate that asking them to pay 1/36th of the 'purchase' amount every > month from now on would be OK. A $10,000 purchase would equate to a $278 > monthly payment. The $278 is regular income to you, and does not end. > > Instead of some fraction of the purchase price, you could try to > calculate > the monthly value they get, and then charge a portion of that. This is a > pretty reasonable approach - the customer pays for less than the value > they > get for as long as they are getting it. > > They could drop out at any time after 6 (or 12?) months - so the risk is > on > you to provide something that is worth more to them each month than they > pay > each month. There will need to be a mechanism (or good contract) to turn > off the software if they decide to discontinue. > > What I think I'll do is offer continuing Tech Support and Warranty for as > long as they use the software. So I'll offer a Purchase License and a > TSW > License - customer's choice. And, they can convert a TSW License to a > Purchase License whenever they like. > > However - do you license your software or are you contracting with them > to > provide software that they will own? If they will own it, then you'll > have > to come up with some additional service to make it worth their money. > > ** On my website there is a spreadsheet intended for prospective > customers > to enable them to calculate for themselves the productivity increase they > will experience by using my software to automate a business process. Go > to > www.promationsystems.com/download.htm. Download the compressed file that > has an instruction document, an instructional video, and the spreadsheet. > If you are a member of the AccessD list you have my permission to modify > the > spreadsheet for your business. (I used Windows Media Encoder 9.0 to > create > the screen capture video.) > > > Dan Waters > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kath Pelletti > Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 8:14 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Client Payment Methods > > Gregg / Dan - Can you tell me how this works? I also only do fully > customised systems - my normal process is to provide a written quote on a > job and ask for half as deposit and the other half on completion. > Additional work quoted separately. > > So if I was to quote a job which worked out to $10,000 - how would I > convert > that to an ongoing monthly payment? My accountant has also suggested that > I > get some monthly payments happening - but I have no idea really how to do > that....How much should they pay? What do I promise in return? How long > does > the arrangement run for??? > > Kath > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Gregg > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 2:31 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Client Payment Methods > > > It's a very good idea. Removes most of the sales objections. Allows > the > customer to kind of try before they spend a lot. Makes the purchasing > decision nearly a no-brainer. > > The only downside I can see is if their expectations are far different > that what your software delivers, you will either have to make > modifications > quickly and essentially for free or they will be tempted to shop around > for > another solution. > > I have done something similar. Our software is totally custom for each > customer so our end product is almost all programming by the hour. This > year I was able to convert 4 long-term customers to a regular monthly > billing. We still track hours and make adjustments when necessary but now > I > can count on a regular monthly check. It's been good. > > Also, I have noticed a change in their mindset about asking for > additions > and enhancements. In the past there were mini approval processes where > they > would get an estimate of our labor before proceeding. Now, I guess > because > of the monthly payments, they tend to think of it as a maintenance > contract > (where requests are seemingly free) even though I have been very clear > that > it is not. Now, from their perspective its a budgeted, yearly commitment > (once-a-year decision) even though they are free to get out at any time. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Dan Waters<mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com> > To: Database Advisors<mailto:accessd at databaseadvisors.com> > Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2005 10:18 AM > Subject: [AccessD] Client Payment Methods > > > To All, > > > > Yesterday I had a business planning meeting with an advisor. He > brought > up > the idea of asking my clients to pay me on a monthly basis - the > concept > is > that they would pay me a portion of the ongoing value they get from > my > services. (By the way, this is not a maintenance fee.) > > > > This sounds quite attractive. My customers might skip a major budget > discussion (often lasting several months) and quickly get started. > They > have a low risk because they could discontinue whenever they want, > which > is > actually a good business position. On my side I would be a little > shocked > if they did discontinue because no one would really want to go back > to > the > old way of doing business. > > > > I'm thinking that I would ask for a monthly amount of 1/36 of what I > would > have asked for to 'sell' a module. The monthly payment would of > course > continue after the 3-year period. This gives me a long-term regular > income > stream, and allows my customer to make small monthly payments which > might be > easier to get into. > > > > Does anyone provide software under similar terms? Or, does anyone > use > software under similar terms? What are your thoughts on this payment > method? > > > > > > Dan Waters > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com<mailto:AccessD at databaseadvisors.com> > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd<http://databaseadvisors > .com/mailman/listinfo/accessd> > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com<http://www.databaseadvisors.com/> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com