Shamil Salakhetdinov
shamil at users.mns.ru
Thu Aug 18 15:30:09 CDT 2005
<<< would evangalize like crazy! ;-} >>> Exciting perspective! Anybody has money to pay for this work to accept evangelizing crowds together? :) (I'm sorry, I have no free resources and spare time right now but I'd make it implemented quickly for moderate payment after I finish the current project - somewhere middle of the next month I expect.) <<< I LOVE being able to > build methods and properties in the abstract and test them extensively > before I ever create a UI object that uses them >>> Yes, this is one of XP's core ideas/methods - unit testing - and it gives a lot of confidence that developed software will be stable.... <<< It is really an extension of spec writing, since you can easily model a spec >>> Yes, and acceptance tests are getting created while you're coding.... And regression testing when new features are implemented becomes just a childish game opposed to traditional development/testing when it usually takes a lot of time... <<< > Ndoc stuff, but I am NOT a C (any flavor) programmer and don't want to > become one. >>> I don't see big difference between C# and VB.NET - they both like VB6/VBA for me:) Even easier to use them in fact - no need usually to care about grabage collection, which have to be manually done in VB6/VBA advanced programming... Just give it a try to program on C# - I guess you will need just a few days to start programming on it ... As for XML comments - they say VBCommenter can help here - http://www.gotdotnet.com/workspaces/workspace.aspx?id=112b5449-f702-46e2-87fa-86bdf39a17dd (I didn't try it). And the docs NDoc (and the like) create are very good. I think it would be very useful addition to your Unit Testing/XP pratices - to create impressive and useful program documentation while you are coding.... Shamil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlotte Foust" <cfoust at infostatsystems.com> To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" <accessd at databaseadvisors.com> Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 11:51 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Disconnected MS Access cient applications.. > I don't think it would be "broadly" used because it isn't used enough > now even in languages that support it, but developers who become > familiar with it, would evangalize like crazy! ;-} I LOVE being able to > build methods and properties in the abstract and test them extensively > before I ever create a UI object that uses them. It is really an > extension of spec writing, since you can easily model a spec and test to > see if the results you get are the ones you expect. I've looked at the > Ndoc stuff, but I am NOT a C (any flavor) programmer and don't want to > become one. > > Charlotte > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Shamil Salakhetdinov [mailto:shamil at users.mns.ru] > Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 11:48 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Disconnected MS Access cient applications.. > > > > Like Nunit testing, for instance. Now THERE's a topic I could get > > excited about if someone would like to rewrite it to work with VBA ... > So, you wanted JUnit/NUnit ideas ported to MS Access/VBA? > We're thinking in the same direction :) > Do you think it could be broadly used? (VBA is getting "dead" language?) > > Yes, VBA/Access Unit testing can be done several ways. > I'd use open source NUnit sources for starters.... > Rough estimation: not that much work - one/a couple of months - anybody > to sponsor? :) > > What about NDoc(http://ndoc.sourceforge.net/) ? > Also wanted to port it to VBA? - no problem - any sponsors? :) > > Shamil > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Charlotte Foust" <cfoust at infostatsystems.com> > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > <accessd at databaseadvisors.com> > Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 10:23 PM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Disconnected MS Access cient applications.. > > > > Yes, I work with ADO.Net a lot, but in VB.Net, not Access, and I > > haven't even looked at C#. Most of my time is now spent in VB.Net, > > but I keep thinking of how nice it would be to be able to do some of > > these things with Access ... Like Nunit testing, for instance. Now > > THERE's a topic I could get excited about if someone would like to > > rewrite it to work with VBA ... Hint, hint, hint. ;-} > > > > Charlotte > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Shamil Salakhetdinov [mailto:shamil at users.mns.ru] > > Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 11:04 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Disconnected MS Access cient applications.. > > > > > > > but have never had time to really pursue it. > > Yes, the same thoughts/experience here. > > Finally ADO.NET and WithEvents should make it rather easy to > > implement... > > > > I think/plan, I will return to this subject end of the next week, > > hopefully with some new results to publish as public domain/open > > source... > > > > Meanwhile I have to finish reading two books about XP in C# and "MS > > Object Thinking" and make some experiments in ADO.NET and a good > > progress in a pending urgent project... > > > > Any ideas about directions in which to develop this small project are > > very welcome! > > > > Thank you for your support! > > > > Shamil > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Charlotte Foust" <cfoust at infostatsystems.com> > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > <accessd at databaseadvisors.com> > > Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 9:30 PM > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Disconnected MS Access cient applications.. > > > > > > > Not interesting, Shamil, FASCINATING! Yes, I do hope you continue > > > this thread. Please! I've often thought of this kind of thing but > > > have never had time to really pursue it. > > > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Shamil Salakhetdinov [mailto:shamil at users.mns.ru] > > > Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 10:02 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Disconnected MS Access cient applications.. > > > > > > > > > Charlotte, > > > > > > Your <VBG> means you're interested in continuation of this > > > subject/thread or...? In my plans is to extend and make all the > > > source > > > > > code available. How soon it will happen this is an open question - I > > > > have an urgent project here. But I do plan to continue this thread > > > and > > > > > work if this looks interesting for you and others here. Maybe even > > > make it open source project here when first useful results will be > > > achieved? It would be interesting I guess to make it also XP(eXtreme > > > Programming) style work with your being subject area expert - I mean > > > > your best knowing in what scenarios and in what business areas is > > > the best to use MS Access in bound but disconnected mode with most > > > of the software (MS Access FE > > > databases) developed by power users but integrated by "mighty MS > > > Access developers"? :) > > > > > > I know how to do all that, I know how to make MS Access applications > > > > assembly factories etc. - I have all that experience and I can share > > > > it if/when I will have spare time - is that interesting? > > > > > > Shamil > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Charlotte Foust" <cfoust at infostatsystems.com> > > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > <accessd at databaseadvisors.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 7:35 PM > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Disconnected MS Access cient applications.. > > > > > > > > > > Oooohhh, I think I'm in love! <VBG> > > > > > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Shamil Salakhetdinov [mailto:shamil at users.mns.ru] > > > > Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 4:46 AM > > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Disconnected MS Access cient applications.. > > > > > > > > > > > > No, William, this is not replication - here is what I mean in > > > > short: > > > > > > > > http://www.smsconsulting.spb.ru/shamil_s/articles/ddo.htm > > > > > > > > Shamil > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "William Hindman" <dejpolsys at hotmail.com> > > > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > <accessd at databaseadvisors.com> > > > > Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 3:47 AM > > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Disconnected MS Access cient applications.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shamil > > > > > > > > > > ..I must be missing something ...that sounds like replication to > > > > > > me. > > > > > > > > > > William > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "Shamil Salakhetdinov" <shamil at users.mns.ru> > > > > > To: "!DBA-MAIN" <accessd at databaseadvisors.com> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 7:28 PM > > > > > Subject: [AccessD] Disconnected MS Access cient applications.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi All, > > > > > > > > > > > > I wanted to ask you - what about the subject? > > > > > > Anybody uses/interested to use MS Access client applications > > > > > > this way? > > > > > > > > > > > > Do I miss obvious (RTFM) stuff and such a disconnected mode is > > > > > > > already implemented in MS Access and broadly used by MS Access > > > > > > > developers? Yes, > > > > I > > > > > > know ADO recordsets can be used with bound MS Access forms > > > > > > etc. but this looks like a rather limited feature - am I > > > > > > wrong? > > > > > > > > > > > > What I mean is cashing data locally into mdbs, only the data > > > > > > needed for the currently open form(s) etc., processing this > > > > > > data > > > > > > > > and then updating backend database(mdb, MSDE, MS SQL, > > > > > > whatever...) > > > > > > > > > - with all this cashing and updating made mostly automatically > > > > > > > by a tiny framework code, based > > > > on > > > > > > ADO.NET...(yes, this local caching of data is not a new > > > > > > subject but nowadays it can be (re-)implement really scalable > > > > > > way with a > > > > > > > > way less efforts > > > > than > > > > > > before) > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe MS plans to do something like that? > > > > > > > > > > > > Is that a wheel reinvention or anybody here sees such > > > > > > opportunity like a really useful feature in their real life > > > > > > projects? > > > > > > > > > > > > For me it looks like a useful feature because it could help: > > > > > > to get MS Access back into mainstream development area because > > > > > > > it will allow to easily scale applications with MS Access > > > > > > front-ends... > > > > > > > > > > > > There are many other ideas but most of them in this "ideas > > > > > > pool" > > > > > > > > based > > > > on > > > > > > the subject one - if it doesn't make sense for real-life > > > > > > projects then > > > > I'd > > > > > > better stop working on it... > > > > > > > > > > > > What is your opinion about the subject? > > > > > > When you expect MS will do something like that in MS Access? > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you, > > > > > > Shamil > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com