John W. Colby
jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com
Thu Sep 8 20:45:46 CDT 2005
LOL. yea, but I disagree with you first. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 7:38 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Not true, honestly! Now, I may disagree with JC on principle alone... <sly grin> Drew -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 3:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Ah, but Drew, you ALWAYS disagree with me ... On principle if for no other reason. <evilgrin> Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:56 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately I have driven a nail with a screwdriver. Of course, when that is the only tool you have, and you need to punch a nail out of something, then it's either the screwdriver, or a part of your own body. I'll go with the screwdriver. As for the whole 'primary', 'natural', 'surrogate' key issue, I agree with you Reuben, an Autonumber can do both tasks, being a primary key, and a useful peice of data. With one exception, if it acts as useful data, there can be no rules other then it is to be unique placed on it. For example, if you need SEQUENTIAL Invoice Numbers, an Autonumber would not be valid, but you may end up with non-sequential numbers. If you just need a unique 'reference' number, then it is fine to use an Autonumber. Just my opinion though folks, and I'm sure I'm going to have arguments thrown against me for it! ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:25 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately You're correct Charlotte, but I've also NEVER seen a case where autonumber 6, for example, changed which row of data it is connected to. It always ID's the same row for life. I have never agreed to the statement that the data is separate from the autonumber - they ARE in the same row. IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way to create sequential numbering without writing a bunch code to do so. The fact that it can also be the Primary Key is just an added benefit. Why include two completely unique numbers in a row if one will do two jobs? I'm a big fan of simplicity. This will lead to a ridiculous discussion - again - so I agree to disagree ;) BTW, Charlotte, because I have never driven a nail with a screwdriver that method of driving nails is, in fact, NOT a valid method. :) I'll let the list know if I ever do. However, an adjustable wrench is acceptable. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:04 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > No, it is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same > row, period. The data in that row are entirely independent from the > autonumber, which is what leads to all the intense discussions of > "primay key" vs "unique key" vs "surrogate key", etc. The fact that > you have used it this way doesn't make it any more valid a usage. > After all, you can drive nails with a screwdriver too. ;-> > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:46 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > I don't know why everyone is so adamant about no showing an > autonumber. I agree technically they shouldn't be shown. > > But sometimes a simple solution is the best. For example, we > currently have some contracts to 'digitize' a state required form for > several local counties. Our solution to digitize is merely enter the > data into a DB we created. However, the paper copies have to remain > available. We number every form we put in so that the user can then > search and find a paper copy by using the number generated by the > software. > > Initially we did this using the autonumber and it worked perfectly (we > had to abandon it to allow multiple entry persons for one county. > > It is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same set of > data. If he wants to use it as an identifier let him. I have. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > 812.523.1017 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:31 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > That doesn't make sense. If you have pull data in from other tables > > and populated fields in a new record, the autonumber should have > > been assigned, so there's something you aren't telling us. And as > > someone else pointed out, the user should NEVER see the autonumber. > > It has no > > > meaning, it merely identifies a row, not the data in the row, and it > > should not be treated as meaningful. > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com