jwcolby
jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com
Mon Dec 3 09:44:22 CST 2007
And you can't get BitLocker until you go up to the business class, which REALLY SUCKS. Given all the stuff with security and personal info that should be part of every system PERIOD. Let's screw the little guy (again!!) John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 10:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Interesting Laptop / Vista commentary I agree on the security front. About the only thing I see in Vista that's worth while is Bit Locker, which encrypts data as it's written out to the HD. For a laptop, that is a feature that is almost in the "must have" category. Beyond that, I think it's a load of junk. I have not recommended it to a single client and I have no clients using it. We've back pedaled to XP every time we've had to order a new PC with anyone. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 9:56 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Interesting Laptop / Vista commentary Hi John, I think that one of the main things that Vista brings to the table is security. There are lots of things that have been changed for the better that most people will never see or hear about. I do not have any specific links, but I have read several articles/blogs that point out some of the "under the covers" stuff, of which I thought a lot of it was pretty impressive. If I come across any of them again, I'll post the links. I don't think you have to have a dual-core processor, but I think it helps with Vista. I think that is because Vista is more multi-threaded friendly, therefore it benefits more from a multi-core system. I don't use the sidebar, the firewall is better than it was in XP, I think most DRM sucks, and the UAC feature needs tweaking. You mentioned earlier about 4GB RAM, I only have 2GB, which is what I had when I ran XP Pro. I develop software on this system using VS 2005 (and soon VS2008), SQL server, Access, and some other stuff. I run VMs under VMWare that can use the extra RAM. One thing I always hear people complaining about Vista is how much RAM it uses. I don't think it uses much more RAM than when I ran XP. With all of the stuff that I run regularly (SQL Server, VMWare, BeyondTV, etc.), XP used up about 600-700MB RAM. One thing about Vista is it seems to use a lot of RAM as cache unless it is needed. With nothing extra running, Process Explorer shows about 1.6GB of commit history, but, it says that about 1.27GB of RAM is available. Stability wise, I have not had any problems. My system stays up just as long with Vista as it did with XP (usually 2-3 weeks at a time before I do something that makes me have to reboot). One issue I have with Vista is that I have a directory with a lot of mpg files and have issues when deleting files. I do not know if is the size of the files or maybe the type of files, but many times, when I delete a file or files, it acts like it is deleting the file, but if you press F5 to refresh or open that directory up later, the file still appears in the listing. This happens maybe 30% of the time. If I reboot, the files will disappear as they are supposed to. I hope this is corrected in SP1. I do not know about versions below the business version, but that friend that I helped buy a pc has the home version and it runs great on 2GB. Note that I am not trying to get people to use Vista, I just want people to know that there are many people that do like Vista and do not have any major issues with running it. As a matter of fact, I think that a lot of the problems people have had over the years have to do with backwards compatibility between OSes. I also think that a lot of the problems that people have with Vista are driver issues where the vendors either have or will not create Vista drivers for legacy equipment or they have implemented them poorly. And like you, I am not a Linux proponent. I have played with various flavors of Linux for years, either dual booting or running them in a VM. I do not think grandma or the regular Joe user is ready for Linux yet. I think most of us on this list could handle it though. I like the way that Vista can and will use the graphics processor for desktop stuff if it meets certain requirements. Windows Presentation Foundation (WPF) is more capable on Vista than on XP. Anyway, I am running on here. I just wanted to let you know that there are people who do like Vista. Sure, there are some problems with it, some of Microsoft's making, some of other vendors' making. But XP, and I don't remember, but probably 2000, 98, etc., all had problems when they came out. I know, Vista has been out for a while now. But I think that SP1 will make a big difference in Vista. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 12:14 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Interesting Laptop / Vista commentary 4 Bobby, Don't get me wrong, I am not about "the good old days". I loved Windows XP because it was based on Windows 2K which was Microsoft's "server grade" system. Remember that Windows 98 was a HUGE step up from Windows 95 in terms of stability. When XP came out people were running Windows 98 on the desktop, and likewise Windows XP was a HUGE step up from Windows 98 on a lot of fronts, stability first off, but also security. We finally got away from the DOS underpinnings. I am not reading anything that indicates that Vista is a step up at all, at least until you do get to the Business edition. All the good stuff is left out of the version that is sold for the home desktop. And it runs like a pig. I am not one of those "let's all run to Linux" people. I was reading just yesterday the experience of a real "techie" tech editor trying to install three of the most popular Linuxes on a laptop and what a joke that was. The built-in pad pointer wasn't supported, the wireless wasn't supported, he was going all over hell trying to find drivers. Windows XP will "just install". Vista MAY "just install". Here is something I found when googling "advantages of Vista over Windows XP". http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=3529 A very interesting read. Admittedly it was written in February but it was "top of the Google list" for that particular search. Having read this I certainly wouldn't rush to buy Vista. And finally I admit, I don't own Vista (or it's not installed anyway). But I have to say these things. 1) In XP I explicitly TURN OFF the eye candy in order to make the interface as snappy as possible. Eye candy is for people who don't use their computers; I have work for my processor cycles to do. It makes no damned difference to me if a control is square and solid or round and looks like glass. It makes no difference to me if they use a color pallet of 64K or 64 bajillion colors. Beyond a certain point it simply doesn't matter any more. Shadows and light sources? C'mon! In a game yea, but on the desktop? 2) XP is stable. I use Pro and will until it is replaced with something legitimately better. 3) DRM sucks (Even in XP I have run smack dab into that wall already with purchased music downloads) and I don't want it embedded in my computer. 4) The built in Windows firewall and other "security" crap that comes with XP is junk, promptly replaced with real protection. Given the "junk" status of the XP variety I see no reason to expect better from the Vista variety. 5) I LOVE new stuff, but it needs to be BETTER stuff. I buy processor upgrades, video upgrades, program upgrades and even OS upgrades WHEN THEY MAKE SENSE. Vista just makes no sense to me. Believe me I had high hopes (I LIKE new BETTER stuff), but in the end it just makes no sense to me. I am quite certain that in a few years I will be forced, kicking and screaming, to upgrade to Vista. MS will somehow manage to make XP non-maintainable any more and I will go. My fervent hope is that Vista actually works when I am dragged there and that I will be able to not install or get rid of the eye candy and DRM crap, and that I will get at least a tiny value for the pound of flesh Microsoft extorts from me. In the meantime... Give me XP or give me death! ;-) John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 10:44 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Interesting Laptop / Vista commentary I guess I have to ask what Vista brings to the table that makes it worth having to buy a dual processor with 4 gigs just to run the system? It damn well better have a built in space shuttle if it is going to require those kinds of specs. So give us a list of what it does that XP doesn't (other than eye candy). John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 9:55 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Interesting Laptop / Vista commentary I have Vista Business on my pc and I love it. I have a P4-3.0GHz, 2GB RAM, and a 7800GS AGP video card. Sure, there are some things that I think could be better that I hope will be addressed in SP1. I ran XP Pro for years, so I am able to compare the two. Don't forget that a lot of people really complained about XP before SP1/SP2 came out. I helped a friend buy a desktop with a Core 2 Duo processor and 2 gigs of RAM and Vista is much more snappy on that machine than mine. I think it has to do with the dual processors. Bobby -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com