krosenstiel at comcast.net
krosenstiel at comcast.net
Mon Dec 17 13:13:23 CST 2007
Here's an easier way, and it will build you an accessible table: http://www.accessify.com/tools-and-wizards/ Some great wizards for accessible web design. -- Karen Rosenstiel Seattle WA USA -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "Dan Waters" <dwaters at usinternet.com> > William - you are an Evangelist! > > In this case I literally need a 4 X 4 table, with a header row and with > borders displayed, to show a user 3 different ways of doing something (I'm > making an on-line Help File and all user have IE). Since I'm not doing any > coding right now, the fastest way is the best way. > > But after watching just the intro to VWD, coding in a web site is certainly > intriguing. > > Thanks! > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman > Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 10:43 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: FrontPage Websites > > Dan > > ...ok, I'll just jump right in here and play the old curmugeon :) > > ...first, why are you using tables at all for positioning elements? > ...that's what css is for and its one heck of a lot more flexible than > tables ever were ...sure, theres a learning curve but its quick and dirty > and there are all kinds of templates to get you going ...and with css you > actually have a chance to make your pages cross-browser compatible ...you'll > > never do that using tables ...it was one thing when IE had 95% of the market > > but these days that's more like 70% in the US and tables are no longer the > panacea they once were. > > ...second, Expression Web is designed for designers, not coders ...VS is for > > coders and it shows in that where Expression Web has one way of getting > something done VS has a dozen or more ...and until you become comfortable > with all the pop-up/pop-out windows and layered menus, it can be a bear in > VS to find what is right up front in Expression ...but that is because VS > offers you so many different ways of doing it. > > ...with VS5 WDE I used to switch back to Expression to do the css and > publish sites ...but VS8 incorporated a css designer and has new build > options that make Expression essentially useless for me ...granted that the > design side of VS8 isn't as user friendly as Expression Web but again, > that's because there is so much more you can do in the design window in VS > that it tends to clutter itself up compared to what you see in Expression > Web. > > ...if you're actually writing code in your pages, you really need to give VS > > WDE another go ...imnsho of course. > > William > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dan Waters" <dwaters at usinternet.com> > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > <accessd at databaseadvisors.com> > Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 3:31 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: FrontPage Websites > > > > Well - I'm back to using Expression Web. > > > > In VWD I never could figure out how to format a cell in a table - > > specifically making vertical alignment = 'top'. I looked in VWD help - it > > said that I could open the Cell Format dialog box by starting at the Layer > > menu, then opening that dialog box from within the Table Format dialog > > box. > > But there is no Layer menu that I could find, and the Table format dialog > > box didn't reference the Cell Format dialog box. :-(!! Even if I just > > missed it, it's a whole lotta clicks for a frequent activity. > > > > In EW, it's just right-click in the cell and select Cell Properties. > > > > So, for a web designer or a person new to web sites I have to recommend > > EW. > > For a developer I would recommend VWD. For someone doing both, they can > > use > > both programs for the same site (but I don't know if both can be open on > > the > > same site at the same time). > > > > Other than my not finding the Layer menu, it does look like most of the > > same > > features exist in both sites - except that the Toolbox in VWD has a > > staggering number of choices. > > > > Dan > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman > > Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2007 10:30 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: FrontPage Websites > > > > ...the move from FP to Expression Web was effortless ...a few bots were > > lost, including the nav bot Drew likes, but they were more than made up > > for > > by the asp.net d&d controls ...and there are plug-ins to restore the old > > bots as well ...but once into asp.net you won't want to. > > > > ...VS8 WDE is FP/Expression Web on steroids ...with so much more available > > for developers its like night and day. > > > > ...your sister in law could use any of them equally well ...in either > > program she would want to make sure her web developer had designed her > > site > > using a DWT so that she could only edit the content areas she should be in > > and not anything that would damage the site itself ...if she decides to > > use > > the free VS8 WDE, she'll work almost always in design mode whereas any > > developer would be working the same page in source view mode. > > > > ...as Dan pointed out MS has made a slew of free video tutorials available > > targeted specfically at beginners that walk you through a lot of How Do > > I... > > > > tasks. > > > > ...its hard for me to visualize a reason for anyone to be using FP, > > Expression ...or Asp/VB ...any longer considering the price of VS8 WDE > > ...and as far as Drew's points re overhead, I did a site in Asp/VBScript > > and > > > > then redid it in Asp.net/VB.net and the net results were both dramatically > > faster AND a good bit smaller, content for content ...yes, there is the > > net > > framework but so what? ...the contents of that framework and the object > > inheritence that just "happens" dramatically reduce the amount of code you > > have to write and the add-ons necessary to produce a site that is fast, > > functional, and user friendly compared to ASP Classic ...imnsho of course > > :) > > > > ...my only regret is that I let the object/inhertance jargon scare me off > > jumping into asp.net/vb.net/c#.net a long time ago ...but when MS put the > > Express versions of VS5 out there for free, I just couldn't help myself > > ...besides which I'd already ran into a wall with the limitations of > > Expression Web. > > > > ...my 2 cents, worth what it cost you ...others will certainly differ > > ...in > > this group, thats a given :) > > > > William > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "jwcolby" <jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com> > > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > <accessd at databaseadvisors.com> > > Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2007 9:46 AM > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: FrontPage Websites > > > > > >> My sister-in-law Katie in Rochester, NY has hired this retired guy that > >> does > >> computer instruction for older people, quite the niche market. Anyway, > >> Katie is retired from teaching and has opened a consulting business. > >> This > >> guy is helping her set up a web site using Front Page, because he knows > >> that > >> and because (he claims) the user can use FP to modify things themselves. > >> thus he will show her how to use FP, help her get the web site hosted and > >> running, and then she can do stuff herself, and he can help if she runs > >> into > >> trouble. > >> > >> Now I used FP back in the early 2000s and didn't much like it, but I > >> imagine > >> it has come a long ways since then and maybe it is a good answer for this > >> scenario. Katie is NOT a computer person, though certainly not computer > >> illiterate. > >> > >> I do not do web page stuff as anyone who has seen my site knows. Mine is > >> DotNetNuke based precisely because I can at least just edit text to add > >> stuff to the page. > >> > >> So for Katie, what is recommended? Is Expression as easy but more > >> powerful? > >> I can get ahold of her mentor to nudge him in that direction, but in the > >> end > >> Katie wants to be able to do the simple stuff herself. > >> > >> John W. Colby > >> Colby Consulting > >> www.ColbyConsulting.com > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters > >> Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2007 8:54 AM > >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: FrontPage Websites > >> > >> This is Just In Time! > >> > >> I was going to spend the day doing some web site work, so I'll try it out > >> in > >> WDE instead. > >> > >> Thanks! > >> Dan > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William > >> Hindman > >> Sent: Friday, December 14, 2007 4:55 PM > >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: FrontPage Websites > >> > >> Dan > >> > >> Expression Web is the official successor to Front Page ...but with the > >> release of VS8 WDE there is no longer any reason for anyone who writes > >> code > >> to use Expression ...VS8 WDE is free, has incorporated the CSS designer > >> from > >> > >> Expression, adds more data controls, and offers so many, many other > >> features > >> > >> Expression lacks ...I still have Expression installed but haven't used it > >> since installing VS8. > >> > >> William > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Dan Waters" <dwaters at usinternet.com> > >> To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > >> <accessd at databaseadvisors.com> > >> Sent: Friday, December 14, 2007 4:19 PM > >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: FrontPage Websites > >> > >> > >>> Also, > >>> > >>> MS Expression Web is a successor to FrontPage. If you have FP you > >>> qualify > >>> for 'upgrade' pricing to Expression Web - I paid about $90. > >>> > >>> To the user it 'feels like' FrontPage, but it does support asp.net. > >>> Expression Web leans more to the Designer side, while Web Developer > >>> Express > >>> leans more to the Developer side. You can work on the same site with > >>> both > >>> programs if that turns out to be helpful. > >>> > >>> Dan > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William > >>> Hindman > >>> Sent: Friday, December 14, 2007 2:15 PM > >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: FrontPage Websites > >>> > >>> ...sigh ...shakes head ...Asp and Front Page are dead ...long replaced > >>> by > >>> Asp.Net and Visual Studio Web Designer Express Version 8, both of which > >>> are > >>> free, easier to use, and incredibly more capable. > >>> > >>> William > >>> > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: "Drew Wutka" <DWUTKA at marlow.com> > >>> To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >>> <accessd at databaseadvisors.com> > >>> Sent: Friday, December 14, 2007 1:00 PM > >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: FrontPage Websites > >>> > >>> > >>>> Ok, here's the first of the two classes in my SiteNav2006.dll. There > >>>> is > >>>> also a module, for my DBConnect function, which just sets the > >>>> ADODB.Connection argument to a new ADODB.Connection, set's it's > >>>> provider > >>>> to Jet 4.0, then sets the extended proprerty for the workgroup file and > >>>> opens the secured database. > >>>> > >>>> This is the Node Class: > >>>> > >>>> Option Explicit > >>>> Public ID As Long > >>>> Public ParentID As Long > >>>> Public URL As String > >>>> Public Title As String > >>>> Public RootNode As Boolean > >>>> Dim MyNodes As Collection > >>>> Private Sub Class_Initialize() > >>>> Set MyNodes = New Collection > >>>> End Sub > >>>> Property Get ChildCount() As Long > >>>> ChildCount = MyNodes.Count > >>>> End Property > >>>> Friend Function AddChild(nd As Node) > >>>> MyNodes.Add nd > >>>> End Function > >>>> Property Get ChildNode(intPos As Long) As Node > >>>> Set ChildNode = MyNodes(intPos) > >>>> End Property > >>>> Public Function NewEnum() As IUnknown > >>>> Set NewEnum = MyNodes.[_NewEnum] > >>>> End Function > >>>> > >>>> My next email will have the Nodes class. The code is a little long, so > >>>> I'm crossing my fingers that it will post. In the RetrieveNavigation > >>>> Function, I will put '''Customization Starts here for where this > >>>> function starts mixing the FP navigation with the product database for > >>>> our site, so that wouldn't have to be included in someone elses...but > >>>> I'm keeping it in there to show how you can tweak the navigation to > >>>> include custom dynamic pages. > >>>> > >>>> Drew > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> AccessD mailing list > >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> AccessD mailing list > >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>> > >>> -- > >>> AccessD mailing list > >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > >> > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com