[AccessD] OT: FrontPage Websites

krosenstiel at comcast.net krosenstiel at comcast.net
Mon Dec 17 13:13:23 CST 2007


Here's an easier way, and it will build you an accessible table:

http://www.accessify.com/tools-and-wizards/

Some great wizards for accessible web design.

--
Karen Rosenstiel
Seattle WA USA

 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Dan Waters" <dwaters at usinternet.com>
> William - you are an Evangelist!
> 
> In this case I literally need a 4 X 4 table, with a header row and with
> borders displayed, to show a user 3 different ways of doing something (I'm
> making an on-line Help File and all user have IE).  Since I'm not doing any
> coding right now, the fastest way is the best way.  
> 
> But after watching just the intro to VWD, coding in a web site is certainly
> intriguing.
> 
> Thanks!
> Dan
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman
> Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 10:43 PM
> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
> Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: FrontPage Websites
> 
> Dan
> 
> ...ok, I'll just jump right in here and play the old curmugeon :)
> 
> ...first, why are you using tables at all for positioning elements? 
> ...that's what css is for and its one heck of a lot more flexible than 
> tables ever were ...sure, theres a learning curve but its quick and dirty 
> and there are all kinds of templates to get you going ...and with css you 
> actually have a chance to make your pages cross-browser compatible ...you'll
> 
> never do that using tables ...it was one thing when IE had 95% of the market
> 
> but these days that's more like 70% in the US and tables are no longer the 
> panacea they once were.
> 
> ...second, Expression Web is designed for designers, not coders ...VS is for
> 
> coders and it shows in that where Expression Web has one way of getting 
> something done VS has a dozen or more ...and until you become comfortable 
> with all the pop-up/pop-out windows and layered menus, it can be a bear in 
> VS to find what is right up front in Expression ...but that is because VS 
> offers you so many different ways of doing it.
> 
> ...with VS5 WDE I used to switch back to Expression to do the css and 
> publish sites ...but VS8 incorporated a css designer and has new build 
> options that make Expression essentially useless for me ...granted that the 
> design side of VS8 isn't as user friendly as Expression Web but again, 
> that's because there is so much more you can do in the design window in VS 
> that it tends to clutter itself up compared to what you see in Expression 
> Web.
> 
> ...if you're actually writing code in your pages, you really need to give VS
> 
> WDE another go ...imnsho of course.
> 
> William
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Dan Waters" <dwaters at usinternet.com>
> To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" 
> <accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
> Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 3:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: FrontPage Websites
> 
> 
> > Well - I'm back to using Expression Web.
> >
> > In VWD I never could figure out how to format a cell in a table -
> > specifically making vertical alignment = 'top'.  I looked in VWD help - it
> > said that I could open the Cell Format dialog box by starting at the Layer
> > menu, then opening that dialog box from within the Table Format dialog 
> > box.
> > But there is no Layer menu that I could find, and the Table format dialog
> > box didn't reference the Cell Format dialog box.  :-(!!  Even if I just
> > missed it, it's a whole lotta clicks for a frequent activity.
> >
> > In EW, it's just right-click in the cell and select Cell Properties.
> >
> > So, for a web designer or a person new to web sites I have to recommend 
> > EW.
> > For a developer I would recommend VWD.  For someone doing both, they can 
> > use
> > both programs for the same site (but I don't know if both can be open on 
> > the
> > same site at the same time).
> >
> > Other than my not finding the Layer menu, it does look like most of the 
> > same
> > features exist in both sites - except that the Toolbox in VWD has a
> > staggering number of choices.
> >
> > Dan
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman
> > Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2007 10:30 AM
> > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
> > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: FrontPage Websites
> >
> > ...the move from FP to Expression Web was effortless ...a few bots were
> > lost, including the nav bot Drew likes, but they were more than made up 
> > for
> > by the asp.net d&d controls ...and there are plug-ins to restore the old
> > bots as well ...but once into asp.net you won't want to.
> >
> > ...VS8 WDE is FP/Expression Web on steroids ...with so much more available
> > for developers its like night and day.
> >
> > ...your sister in law could use any of them equally well ...in either
> > program she would want to make sure her web developer had designed her 
> > site
> > using a DWT so that she could only edit the content areas she should be in
> > and not anything that would damage the site itself ...if she decides to 
> > use
> > the free VS8 WDE, she'll work almost always in design mode whereas any
> > developer would be working the same page in source view mode.
> >
> > ...as Dan pointed out MS has made a slew of free video tutorials available
> > targeted specfically at beginners that walk you through a lot of How Do 
> > I...
> >
> > tasks.
> >
> > ...its hard for me to visualize a reason for anyone to be using FP,
> > Expression ...or Asp/VB ...any longer considering the price of VS8 WDE
> > ...and as far as Drew's points re overhead, I did a site in Asp/VBScript 
> > and
> >
> > then redid it in Asp.net/VB.net and the net results were both dramatically
> > faster AND a good bit smaller, content for content ...yes, there is the 
> > net
> > framework but so what? ...the contents of that framework and the object
> > inheritence that just "happens" dramatically reduce the amount of code you
> > have to write and the add-ons necessary to produce a site that is fast,
> > functional, and user friendly compared to ASP Classic ...imnsho of course 
> > :)
> >
> > ...my only regret is that I let the object/inhertance jargon scare me off
> > jumping into asp.net/vb.net/c#.net a long time ago ...but when MS put the
> > Express versions of VS5 out there for free, I just couldn't help myself
> > ...besides which I'd already ran into a wall with the limitations of
> > Expression Web.
> >
> > ...my 2 cents, worth what it cost you ...others will certainly differ 
> > ...in
> > this group, thats a given :)
> >
> > William
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "jwcolby" <jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com>
> > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'"
> > <accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
> > Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2007 9:46 AM
> > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: FrontPage Websites
> >
> >
> >> My sister-in-law Katie in Rochester, NY has hired this retired guy that
> >> does
> >> computer instruction for older people, quite the niche market.  Anyway,
> >> Katie is retired from teaching and has opened a consulting business. 
> >> This
> >> guy is helping her set up a web site using Front Page, because he knows
> >> that
> >> and because (he claims) the user can use FP to modify things themselves.
> >> thus he will show her how to use FP, help her get the web site hosted and
> >> running, and then she can do stuff herself, and he can help if she runs
> >> into
> >> trouble.
> >>
> >> Now I used FP back in the early 2000s and didn't much like it, but I
> >> imagine
> >> it has come a long ways since then and maybe it is a good answer for this
> >> scenario.  Katie is NOT a computer person, though certainly not computer
> >> illiterate.
> >>
> >> I do not do web page stuff as anyone who has seen my site knows.  Mine is
> >> DotNetNuke based precisely because I can at least just edit text to add
> >> stuff to the page.
> >>
> >> So for Katie, what is recommended?  Is Expression as easy but more
> >> powerful?
> >> I can get ahold of her mentor to nudge him in that direction, but in the
> >> end
> >> Katie wants to be able to do the simple stuff herself.
> >>
> >> John W. Colby
> >> Colby Consulting
> >> www.ColbyConsulting.com
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters
> >> Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2007 8:54 AM
> >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
> >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: FrontPage Websites
> >>
> >> This is Just In Time!
> >>
> >> I was going to spend the day doing some web site work, so I'll try it out
> >> in
> >> WDE instead.
> >>
> >> Thanks!
> >> Dan
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William 
> >> Hindman
> >> Sent: Friday, December 14, 2007 4:55 PM
> >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
> >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: FrontPage Websites
> >>
> >> Dan
> >>
> >> Expression Web is the official successor to Front Page ...but with the
> >> release of VS8 WDE there is no longer any reason for anyone who writes
> >> code
> >> to use Expression ...VS8 WDE is free, has incorporated the CSS designer
> >> from
> >>
> >> Expression, adds more data controls, and offers so many, many other
> >> features
> >>
> >> Expression lacks ...I still have Expression installed but haven't used it
> >> since installing VS8.
> >>
> >> William
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Dan Waters" <dwaters at usinternet.com>
> >> To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'"
> >> <accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
> >> Sent: Friday, December 14, 2007 4:19 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: FrontPage Websites
> >>
> >>
> >>> Also,
> >>>
> >>> MS Expression Web is a successor to FrontPage.  If you have FP you
> >>> qualify
> >>> for 'upgrade' pricing to Expression Web - I paid about $90.
> >>>
> >>> To the user it 'feels like' FrontPage, but it does support asp.net.
> >>> Expression Web leans more to the Designer side, while Web Developer
> >>> Express
> >>> leans more to the Developer side.  You can work on the same site with
> >>> both
> >>> programs if that turns out to be helpful.
> >>>
> >>> Dan
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William
> >>> Hindman
> >>> Sent: Friday, December 14, 2007 2:15 PM
> >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
> >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: FrontPage Websites
> >>>
> >>> ...sigh ...shakes head ...Asp and Front Page are dead ...long replaced 
> >>> by
> >>> Asp.Net and Visual Studio Web Designer Express Version 8, both of which
> >>> are
> >>> free, easier to use, and incredibly more capable.
> >>>
> >>> William
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message ----- 
> >>> From: "Drew Wutka" <DWUTKA at marlow.com>
> >>> To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving"
> >>> <accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
> >>> Sent: Friday, December 14, 2007 1:00 PM
> >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: FrontPage Websites
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Ok, here's the first of the two classes in my SiteNav2006.dll.  There 
> >>>> is
> >>>> also a module, for my DBConnect function, which just sets the
> >>>> ADODB.Connection argument to a new ADODB.Connection, set's it's 
> >>>> provider
> >>>> to Jet 4.0, then sets the extended proprerty for the workgroup file and
> >>>> opens the secured database.
> >>>>
> >>>> This is the Node Class:
> >>>>
> >>>> Option Explicit
> >>>> Public ID As Long
> >>>> Public ParentID As Long
> >>>> Public URL As String
> >>>> Public Title As String
> >>>> Public RootNode As Boolean
> >>>> Dim MyNodes As Collection
> >>>> Private Sub Class_Initialize()
> >>>> Set MyNodes = New Collection
> >>>> End Sub
> >>>> Property Get ChildCount() As Long
> >>>> ChildCount = MyNodes.Count
> >>>> End Property
> >>>> Friend Function AddChild(nd As Node)
> >>>> MyNodes.Add nd
> >>>> End Function
> >>>> Property Get ChildNode(intPos As Long) As Node
> >>>> Set ChildNode = MyNodes(intPos)
> >>>> End Property
> >>>> Public Function NewEnum() As IUnknown
> >>>> Set NewEnum = MyNodes.[_NewEnum]
> >>>> End Function
> >>>>
> >>>> My next email will have the Nodes class.  The code is a little long, so
> >>>> I'm crossing my fingers that it will post.  In the RetrieveNavigation
> >>>> Function, I will put '''Customization Starts here for where this
> >>>> function starts mixing the FP navigation with the product database for
> >>>> our site, so that wouldn't have to be included in someone elses...but
> >>>> I'm keeping it in there to show how you can tweak the navigation to
> >>>> include custom dynamic pages.
> >>>>
> >>>> Drew
> >>>>
> >>>> -- 
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> >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com
> >>>
> >>>
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> >>
> >>
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