[AccessD] Performance tips anyone?

Joe Hecht jmhecht at earthlink.net
Thu Jul 5 22:03:35 CDT 2007


Looking at my bleeding hands....

That was the problem, I was holding the cookie cutter wrong and that's why
my mdbs were never as good.  : (

Joe Hecht
jmhecht at earthlink.net

-----Original Message-----
From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 11:54 AM
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Performance tips anyone?

ROTFL.  No I use a framework.  OK, yea, I use a cookie cutter approach, that
is what a framework does.  Of course I can turn out cookies waaaaaay faster
than those of you cutting your cookies by hand. 


John W. Colby
Colby Consulting
www.ColbyConsulting.com 
-----Original Message-----
From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 1:29 PM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Performance tips anyone?

I don't think so, but I think she is inferring that you use a cookie cutter
approach... ;)

Drew

-----Original Message-----
From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 12:23 PM
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Performance tips anyone?

Charlotte, 

>I still think every Access wannabe should learn how to deal with
unbound
objects as well, and not simply use the cookie cutter bound approach. 

LOL.  Are you calling me a wannabe? 

;-)

John W. Colby
Colby Consulting
www.ColbyConsulting.com
-----Original Message-----
From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 1:09 PM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Performance tips anyone?

I just KNEW you wouldn't be able to resist that comment, John!  LOL

I agree with you thought (mostly).  I made heavy use of unbound forms and
controls in Access, and it was easier for me to switch to .Net than it might
be for some.  However, I still think every Access wannabe should learn how
to deal with unbound objects as well, and not simply use the cookie cutter
bound approach. 

Charlotte Foust


-----Original Message-----
From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 9:30 AM
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Performance tips anyone?

Jim,

>You mentioning this will not cause near the stir as it did 10 years ago

>as
most (all?) have now accepted the reality. ;-)

LOL, no not quite.  Access is a tool built from the ground up for bound.
To even discuss unbound for Access NOW, when much more robust unbound tools
are available is ... well... kinda silly.  Unless of course you have been
doing unbound with Access for the last 10 years in which case you have the
expertise to do so.  Telling the average Access nubee to use Access unbound
is IMHO a disservice to the nubee.  He might as well just go learn VB.Net.

As for me, if I need unbound it will be in VB.Net, NOT in Access (and I am
not an Access nubee).

The right tool for the job so to speak.   


John W. Colby
Colby Consulting
www.ColbyConsulting.com
-----Original Message-----
From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 12:13 PM
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Performance tips anyone?

Yes, Drew you have hit on the key to performance... 'unbound'. 

You mentioning this will not cause near the stir as it did 10 years ago as
most (all?) have now accepted the reality. ;-)

Jim     

-----Original Message-----
From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 8:52 AM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Performance tips anyone?

It narrows down to a few factors:

Backend Design (well indexed and normalized) Front End Design (Hit and run
designs, don't stay connected to the backend unless you have too) Network
Speed (far more important then hardware speed/memory.  Sure, the more your
interface leans on the processor/ram, the more you need CPU speed and ram,
but for actual database work, the network speed and server hard drive access
time are far more criticl)

Did I mention 'unbound'.

Of course, most of these concerns go out the window when using a web based
interface with the .mdb running locally.... ;)

Drew

-----Original Message-----
From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 12:43 AM
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Performance tips anyone?

Anita,

>You are very brave

It doesn't feel that way.  Access works very well for what it does.

>A form will open fast if designed well.

You are right there.  You can grind everything to a halt by trying to use
bound forms pulling tens of thousands of records.  I had to go to the
"single record" thing for this form, but it worked and worked well.

>You can keep throwing hardware at Access applications to will make them
perform faster. The real trick is to get your database to perform fast
regardless.

That is just a silly thing to say.  Try getting a modern real database
running on an old 100 mhz machine with 64 meg.  You have to face facts and
the facts are that the machine makes the difference.  A modern machine can
be had for peanuts from Dell.  If the business owner is complaining that his
Celeron 1ghz machines running 256 megs of ram, windows 98 and Access 2000 is
running slow.... My only response will be... "and your point is?"

I use a framework which makes it very easy for me to do things like time
form openings and log what machine is doing the opening.  I showed my client
that his users complaining about slow databases were ALL on slow machines.
And yep, he is buying new modern "workstations", a few a month, to get rid
of the old junk he was running with.  And the users have quit complaining.

Sorry, facts is facts.  You can index till the cows come home but that is
never going to fly on ancient hardware.  Now, you can certainly move the
whole shooting match to a modern server running Windows server 2003 and SQl
Server and pay through the nose for that machine, OS and SQL Server, and
then pay through the nose for SQL Server and OS notworking experts.
That is
certainly an option.  Or you can update your workstations for less money and
have good performance for many (MANY) more than 10-12 users.  

And no, I am not arguing that an MDB is the solution for hundreds of users
but 10-12 users?  C'mon!

John W. Colby
Colby Consulting
www.ColbyConsulting.com
-----Original Message-----
From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Anita Smith
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 12:57 AM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Performance tips anyone?

John,
My comments in line:

 Errrrr!  Wrong answer.

I have a database with 25 users in the database every day.  The BE is
currently about 800 mbytes.  This BE has tables with hundreds of thousands
of records in some tables, 30K-50K records in the main tables (claimant /
claim).  I open a VERY complex tabbed form with about 20 tabs on it, with
subforms on each tab (JIT subforms).
***************************************
You are very brave
***************************************
I open a VERY complex tabbed form with about 20 tabs on it, with subforms on
each tab (JIT subforms).

Users on fast machines open the form in about 1.2 seconds.  Users on very
old slow machines take about 5 to 6 seconds.
***************************************
A form will open fast if designed well.
***************************************

Speed of the individual workstation is the single largest determinate of
acceptable speed.  A high speed processor and LOTS of memory (1 gig for
Windows XP Pro) are essential.  Moving to a 1 gbit lan made a big difference
as well (which requires a gigabit NIC in the machines as well).
***************************************
You can keep throwing hardware at Access applications to will make them
perform faster. The real trick is to get your database to perform fast
regardless.
***************************************

Anita
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