Charlotte Foust
cfoust at infostatsystems.com
Thu Mar 15 18:16:27 CDT 2007
You're missing my point entirely because you're focussing on "users" and the end product. The end product (a database app) is used by users, and they can have any little ribbons and bows their hearts desire because that's what they pay for. My job is to make them happy. *I'm* griping about the fact that it's hard for a developer to find the bits and pieces THEY need in the welter of window dressing intended for end users. Access has always had a split personality because MS always insisted it was targeted at end users, a direction that most of us in this list would argue. I don't want to create a database using an on-line template, thanks. And I don't want to have to chase down the tools I need because some genius decided a Tools menu was too "unfriendly" for end users. There should be a simple way to switch the environment to "developer" mode and allow us to get on with our business without having to put up with all the Mac-lookalike elements in what used to be a great RAD tool and has now become a video game! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of artful at rogers.com Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 4:06 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 Wow, Charlotte. I don't want to inject political metaphors unnecessarily into this discussion, but clearly you and I have radically opposed development objectives. My objective is all about the user, and I deem personalization a vital component of sensible software. I want every single one of my users to be able to customize her menu/ribbon/shortcuts to suit her personality. I do not want to intrude upon this ability. Yes, I want to prevent users from doing something asinine or disastrous, but if user X prefers the ribbon in this arrangement while user Y prefers that, I have utterly no beef with that, and try as best I can to ensure that both users can exert their preferences according to their needs. To the extent that the UI I provide fails to allow this freedom, I deem it less than successful. My goal is to free the users not to imprison them. It's difficult not to inject political metaphors into this discussion, so best I shift the metaphor to child-rearing. I want to educate the users and allow them freedom, albeit within limits. Perhaps this discussion simply concerns the definition of "limits". I do not profess any expertise in this category. I have tried various experiments in various projects, such as drifting the most-frequently-used menu choices to the top of the menu, and so on. At the end of the day, my maxim is quite simple: "Make the user feel graceful." Make everything seem simple, intuitive, obvious and flexible. I didn't say this was easy. But it is the goal I choose whenever writing software. To the extent that a manual is required, the software UI failed, IMO. Of course, I still provide a manual or at least on-line help, but to the extent that either is used, I deem my UI a failure. Arthur ----- Original Message ---- From: Charlotte Foust <cfoust at infostatsystems.com> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving <accessd at databaseadvisors.com> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 6:34:12 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 I'm not talking about what users see, Arthur, I'm talking about the pain it is for a developer to work in it. I purely HATE ribbons, even more that I hated "personalized" menus in previous versions. All the changes have been made to wow the end users, and they're thumbing their collective noses at the developers who still need to build applications or clean up the messes that "power users" have made. I work with the Outlook metaphor in the apps my company develops, so it isn't unfamiliar, it's just totally annoying that you can't get an easy bird's eye view of the objects in schema, you have to wade through ribbons and nav panes and just pain in general. We'll have to agree to disagree on this. I BUILD apps in .Net with that interface, but I don't have to cope with it in the design environment as well because VS.Net at least is intended for developers. I cringe to think of what they'll do to in in the next release, though. :-< Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of artful at rogers.com Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 3:21 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 Wow. You and I couldn't possibly be more opposed on this one, Jim. I'm thinking "Finally!" I totally love what is possible in the new environment. Clearly it's a personal-taste thing. There is nothing you cannot do in 2007 that you could do before, so you can continue to do it the old way if you wish, but I love the new UI. Admittedly it took me a few experiments to find out how to twist it according to my predilections, but now that I know, I love it. P.S. About 99% of the users I know measure everything they use by the Outlook metaphor. That could reflect the subset of people at whose pleasure I serve, but that's the fact. The sizable pane, the treeview in the left pane, the auto-loading panel in the right pane... everyone that I know knows this interface so well that I don't have to explain it. So I just take an old app and turn the switchboard into a treeview and suddenly everyone is much happier than they were with the previous roll-out. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 8:43 AM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 Show of hands please: how many of you are actually using this version? I HATE Office 2007 and Access is arguably the worst of the worst. Outlook seems to be the most sane application in the suite, which isn't saying much. Friends, we have suffered a Mac attack in this version of Office. All the things I have always hated about the Mac OS have found a home in Office 2007. Is anyone trying to develop in Access 2007? The Outlook metaphor drives me nuts! Oh, for a database window! It also seems to have weird problems with CurrentProject.Connection with linked tables when you try and convert an earlier format database. Can anyone recommend a good book on just Access 2007. I know Martin came out with a book, but I haven't found it yet. Charlotte Foust -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com