JWColby
jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com
Tue May 8 08:37:55 CDT 2007
Shamil,
>I must say in my opinion MS Access can't be considered as true agile
development platform because of the lack of true OO language and because of
its limited and inflexible options of binding of forms and reports:
hopefully next MS Access versions will propose more options here...
Some of the principles behind the Agile Manifesto are:
* Customer satisfaction by rapid, continuous delivery of useful software
* Working software is delivered frequently (weeks rather than months)
* Working software is the principal measure of progress
* Even late changes in requirements are welcomed
* Close, daily, cooperation between business people and developers
* Face-to-face conversation is the best form of communication
* Projects are built around motivated individuals, who should be trusted
* Continuous attention to technical excellence and good design
* Simplicity
* Self-organizing teams
* Regular adaptation to changing circumstances
I do not see anything in there about a specific agile development platform.
It appears to me that Agile Development is a concept, not a platform.
John W. Colby
Colby Consulting
www.ColbyConsulting.com
-----Original Message-----
From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil
Salakhetdinov
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 9:19 AM
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Lazy,or Agile: that is the question... - Was Re:When
to UseaJunctionTable
<<<
And then I usually end up going back and replacing "wrong" with "right" when
things slow down and I have time to breath.
>>>
Yes, John - natural trial'n'error procedure, which I mentioned in one of my
first postings of this thread is the key to refactor "wrong" to "right". We
do that all the time but we often over engineer trying to "get it right from
the first time" and these attempts are becoming more and more expensive and
less and less productive (correct) because of modern software getting more
and more complicated and because of customers' change requests getting more
and more changing and tricky...
If we will continue trying to "get it right from the first time" then the
software development crisis of the last 30 years will never be effectively
solved...
Agile development methodology gives practical answers how to overcome this
crisis...
As for MS Access professional developers (and my being one of such
developers for the last 10+ years) - I must say in my opinion MS Access
can't be considered as true agile development platform because of the lack
of true OO language and because of its limited and inflexible options of
binding of forms and reports: hopefully next MS Access versions will propose
more options here...
Still MS Access of course can be effectively used to solve many application
development tasks...
--
Shamil
-----Original Message-----
From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of JWColby
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 4:19 PM
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Lazy,or Agile: that is the question... - Was Re:When
to UseaJunctionTable
I cannot speak for Shamil but I believe that he is trying to stress that the
OLD way (months of meetings to pound out a spec detailed down to the last
screen shot and placement of every text box) is simply not optimum, and to
this I agree. It is my belief that the concept of Agile programming is to
develop enough to let the client start using it, get feedback as you develop
more pieces, fix bugs, modify the specification as the client realizes that
things don't really work the way they thought etc.
I also think that most of us using Access as a tool do Agile Development
simply because of the environment that we work in, "gotta have something NOW
to work with even if it is not optimum".
And I do believe in doing it "right" where "right" can be ascertained and
"right" will not set the project back by weeks or months. And then there
are times when "wrong" is a necessary step on the way to "right". I can't
count the times I have done a "get them something to work with" step because
"right" would simply take longer than they have. And then I usually end up
going back and replacing "wrong" with "right" when things slow down and I
have time to breath.
John W. Colby
Colby Consulting
www.ColbyConsulting.com
-----Original Message-----
From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 4:24 AM
To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Lazy,or Agile: that is the question... - Was Re:When
to UseaJunctionTable
Hi Shamil
Charlotte can certainly speak for herself, but I think she wishes to stress
that doing it right the first time is optimum. And "right" - in my opinion -
is always to be a little ahead of the client. Your experience will tell what
the client's next step/wish could be, and then you program to be prepared.
To create a child table takes so little time for us so if I can foresee it
will be needed later, I just create it. What's more important is, that some
clients regard you as "the expert" and they expect you to be ahead of their
minds and to suggest possible improvements to their specifications.
I'm quite sure that this is the way you - and probably most of our fellow
listers - actually operate, so it is more a comment on the lazy "just create
in the fastest possible way what the client exactly requests without a
glimse on the future".
/gustav
>>> shamil at users.mns.ru 07-05-2007 18:35 >>>
Charlotte,
That would have been great if we have been able to develop a database model,
a software functionality,... once then deliver it and then forget it...
But "the only constant thing in the modern software development is the
constant change"...
--
Shamil
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