Drew Wutka
DWUTKA at Marlow.com
Tue Jun 10 18:00:56 CDT 2008
Arrogant A$$, insolent ideas? Sheesh JC. First of all, I am very proud of AccessD, in fact I was honored to be asked to be a member of the Board of Directors for Database Advisors. Still am. What I am proud of with this organization is that it is a wonderful environment for all Access users, both newbies and pros, and everything in between. You and I have butted heads before. We have even butted heads on this specific topic. The end of the last battle over this was a consensus that there was nothing wrong with either bound or unbound forms, that each had their place and usage. I stuck to my ground on that one (and others), because I don't want an educational organization, like this one, that I belong too, to preach 'our way or the highway', or 'this is a bad practice cause it can be used incorrectly if you don't know what you are doing'. If you want the posts from way back then, I'll send them to you.A majority of the unbound/bound debate was the 'bounders' claiming there was never a reason to use an unbound form. That 'replicating' SOME of the bound capabilities (like reading and writing data) was pointless because a bound form already did that. And I defended my position that there are and is a time and place to use unbound forms. Now, you started this thread. Asked for an unbound solution to a problem you were having with a bound form. I gave you a solution that solved every problem you were having. You disregarded my solution because your customer is dictating the table design. Granted, I think that's idiotic. Which spun you off into a whirlwind. Hey, great, it's your customer, and your problem. So THEN, I posted WHY you would continue to have a problem trying to go unbound with the same table design. And the summation of which was that the overlapping of user input was already handled by the bound form, and it was handling the overlapping usage clash in essentially the best way available. Going unbound, you will end up with the EXACT same problem that the initial developers of Access had with the bound method. If you want to try to come up with a better bound form, be my guest. However, THIS is why I keep replying to this thread: "Which leads us squarely back to update strategies, and testing for modifications by other users. All that good stuff that the "unbounders" claim to handle but have never piped up with even general strategies, never mind code." -JWC "I suspect there are several classes of unbounders hiding out there, those that... 1) Don't handle it and don't want to admit it. 2) Handle it but the code was reaaaaaaaaallllllly messy and don't want to admit it. 3) Use "first wins" strategy and don't want to admit it. 4) Spent so much time and effort doing it correctly that they don't really want to give their work away." -JWC If you want to spin your wheels on a problem by attacking it from left field, be my guest. But stop posting garbage like this then! I for one, don't want a new Access User avoiding an unbound solution that works better then a bound solution, because you keep posting this garbage. Before you reply to this (if you do), look at this discussion like this: User: I've heard a lot about frameworks, and I have a problem that I think frameworks can fix. JWC: Ok, here's how to start building a framework....... User: I can't use class modules in this project, because the customer doesn't want class modules.... JWC: Well to build a framework properly, you really need to use class modules.... User: You don't understand, I must bend my will to my customer, and must design the stuff that the users will never see exactly like the customer wants. You're a poopy head and aren't helping me at all. I need a framework without classes that will do everything my heart desires and you're an idiot for not being able to help me with that. JWC: Ok, good luck with that. User: Man, I've heard all these wonderful things about frameworks, but apparently they don't work at all because I can't fix my problem with them. That is EXACTLY how this thread is going between you and I JC. An unbound approach STARTS with table design. Without that, all you are doing is disconnecting a recordset (which in a situation that a bound form would work, does nothing to help you). Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 2:18 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] VBA Unbound data entry / update form > #1. You should NEVER have two users trying to edit the same field in the same record at the same time, where BOTH values being entered are correct. (ie, there should only be one right 'Last Name' for a person, yes, it may change, but there is only one correct value for it) HORSHESHIT! Hmmm... not enough emphasis there. !!!HORSHESHIT!!!!HORSHESHIT!!!!HORSHESHIT!!!!HORSHESHIT!!!! I have NO IDEA what world YOU live in but in my world people can change whatever they want whenever they want. Person A writes the name in the last name field from a hastily scribbled form filled out by hand by a person who has a sixth grade education. Person B is reading a form with the information for that SAME person typed in by a doctor office, the last name is different. They can change it if they wish. Person C is on the phone with the mother of that person. They are verifying the information and mom says "no the name is spelled XXXXX. That person can change it. It is NOT MY JOB to tell any of these people that they cannot change the information in the database. !!!!THEY MIGHT BE DOING THESE THINGS AT THE SAME INSTANT!!!!! !!!!I MAY NEED TO DO THAT IN AN UNBOUND FORM!!!! NOW, DREW, THAT IS LEGAL. I AM !!!NOT!!! GOING TO DESIGNING A TRANSACTION SYSTEM TO SAVE EVERY CHANGE EVER ENTERED BY ANYONE IN A BRAND NEW RECORD AS A CONTINUOUS HISTORY. MY CLIENT DID NOT ASK FOR THAT, WILL NOT PAY ME FOR THAT AND IT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN. !!!!I HAVE TO DEAL WITH THAT!!!! !!!YOU!!! ARE AN ARROGANT ASS IF YOU THINK ONLY YOU KNOWS WHAT IS LEGAL OR POSSIBLE IN THIS WORLD. Go away. FAR FAR AWAY. JOIN THE FOREIGN LEGIONS AND TRY TO CONVERT SOMEONE ELSE TO YOUR INSOLENT IDEAS. Quite obviously I do not need, nor WANT your responses. Please do NOT respond to this thread EVER AGAIN. In case you do not YET understand..... !!!HORSHESHIT!!!!HORSHESHIT!!!!HORSHESHIT!!!!HORSHESHIT!!!! ......to your silly ideas. Hmmmm.... I fear that I STILL was not speaking plainly enough... !!!HORSHESHIT!!!!HORSHESHIT!!!!HORSHESHIT!!!!HORSHESHIT!!!! ......to your silly ideas. Hmmmm.... I fear that I STILL was not speaking plainly enough... If you want to post solutions for questions I did not ask, please feel free to do so, in some other thread. Hmmm... I COULD SWEAR THAT I MADE THAT REQUEST BEFORE... John W. 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