William Hindman
wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com
Mon Apr 6 18:43:42 CDT 2009
...what is YOUR point? ...developing data driven websites using notepad went out long ago ...you can warm a cup of coffee by first building a campfire in the middle of your kitchen but most people prefer the microwave ...suggesting to someone that notepad or MSE are serious tools for web development in today's work environment is ...well, you fill in the blanks, eh ...and given that VSWD Express is, among many other good web development tools, absolutely free with great tutorial videos ...well ...I won't waste my time "venting" ...its a closed case, eh. ...everyone starts somewhere Drew ...some start with one tool and never move on when better ones come along. William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Drew Wutka" <DWUTKA at marlow.com> Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 5:52 PM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" <accessd at databaseadvisors.com> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Web Applications > First, I said I could if I wanted to, though I prefer Microsoft Script > Editor. > > Second, what's your point William? I think you need to join OT again > and vent somewhere else. The original question was about learning to > develop on the web. Not what tool is the best. I answered the original > question with my personal opinion, which is that you will be a better > web developer if you get a strong grasp of some of the less flashy > tools. > > Believe you me, I've met my share of developers that were handed the > keys to an SR-71 package and were recklessly gallivanting around > displaying their absolute lack of knowledge..... > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William > Hindman > Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 12:43 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Web Applications > > "there isn't anything you can't do with ASP and a client side script." > Drew > > ...sigh ...so sayeth the Word Perfect 5.1 user re upgrading :( > > ...you guys who want to brag about using notepad to develop web sites > ...bs! > (imnsho of course) ...anything beyond basic html is a non-starter using > notepad. > > ...and yes, you can do most things in ASP ...and a Model-T will get you > to > the store and back with great gas mileage > > ...takes a real geek to drive a Model-T every day, though ...most of us > like > our power windows and a/c ...not to mention not having to use the spark > advance lever to get up a hill :) > > William > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Drew Wutka" <DWUTKA at marlow.com> > Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 1:19 PM > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > <accessd at databaseadvisors.com> > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Web Applications > >> I can do ASP and HTML with notepad proficiently, though I prefer >> Microsoft Script Editor. Javascript, I wouldn't call myself > proficient. >> I could muddle through something if I needed too, but I'm usually >> googling when time is an issue. >> >> As for ASP.NET being overkill....yep. It has it's advantages, but > there >> isn't anything you can't do with ASP and a client side script. >> >> Drew >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kenneth >> Ismert >> Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 11:41 AM >> To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Web Applications >> >> Hi, All, >> >> Some further responses: >> >> Mark, >> "I challenge anyone to be proficient in all of the below with >> development >> via text editor." >> I did it for two years using just creaky old Notepad++, and a GREP > tool. >> Of >> course, I was using PHP/Apache/MySQL, which is suited to this >> development >> style. I even took a shot at writing an MVC web framework in PHP, > which, >> while not ready for production use, showed promising results. Almost > the >> whole Ruby on Rails community uses Textmate. >> >> Drew, >> "If someone really wanted to learn to fly, I wouldn't recommend they >> start >> with an SR-71 either! ;)" >> I have to agree with you on this one. The opinion of certain local >> developers who I respect is that ASP.NET is overkill. My >> 'over-the-shoulder' >> view of the large ASP.NET project I was doing CSS consulting for was >> that >> the group of young, talented developers where creating more mess than >> they >> were solving. Using a super-fancy IDE doesn't absolve you of the >> discipline >> required to make a successful project. And if you have the discipline, >> you >> can do it without the super-fancy IDE. >> >> William, >> My "minimum effort" web development strategy is: >> * Use the subset of CSS 2.1 that IE7 supports >> * Develop the site in FireFox/FireBug (see "Browsers of 2009" link ... >> it >> really is less effort to do it this way) >> * Tweak the site to work in IE7 (this requires *very* few changes from >> standard CSS) >> * Work in IE6 to ensure the site is functional, and achieve 80%-96% of >> the >> look of the site in the top-tier browsers >> >> "...but less a few plug-ins I find useful for web work, IE8 is my >> development browser for the moment ..." >> I can't help but wondering whether the "few plug-ins I find useful" is >> FireBug under FireFox. If IE8 provides developer tools superior to >> FireBug, >> I'll consider switching, too. >> >> "...I find the FF devotees akin to any other cult group .." >> Without the FireFox gadfly, Microsoft would never have developed IE8. >> This >> forced forward progress is good for all. It remains to be seen whether >> IE8 >> will staunch the losses Microsoft continues to suffer in the browser >> arena. >> >> "...the practical matter is that IE remains the defacto user >> standard..." >> The fact is there are real standards, maintained by the W3C. When you >> look >> at compliance to *actual* standards, FireFox/Safari/Opera/Chrome are > far >> better than IE, although 8 closes the gap considerably. This is the >> overwhelming consensus of the standards-based web development > community. >> >> -Ken >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> The information contained in this transmission is intended only for > the >> person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI >> Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not > the >> intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy > the >> material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. 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You are > notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, > dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon > this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient > is prohibited. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >