Jim Lawrence
accessd at shaw.ca
Tue Jun 23 17:27:14 CDT 2009
Agreed... Drew. It may be that I have just used MS SQL for too much and Access MDB too little. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 3:06 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net We'll just have to agree to disagree here Jim. While it is free to use SQL Express, and it does have advantages over JET and an .mdb, there are still advantages the other way: It's an .mdb, you don't need Access installed to use it. A web server with ASP and ADO is all you need. It's a single file, you can copy, swap, or change the .mdb with just that file. (No detaching and reattaching of a database). It's less resource intensive....more features, more resources. Jet runs great on a local machine, which is what happens when you put an .mdb on a webserver, it's local. Development is easier with all the nifty Access tools. Access' query builder is way easier to use then Enterprise manager's query builder. Again, not saying there aren't advantages the other way, just saying that I don't think you can truly say one situation is better in all cases. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 4:47 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net Hi Drew: That is definitely a good secure way to connect to a MDB database. As MS SQL Express is now free there is no reason to not use it. The SQL engine has so many more features in it that make superior choice for internet work. We are both in agreement with unbound applications. It is just that the MDB does not work well in complex multi-users environments, when it is unbound while SQL is designed to be unbound. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 1:00 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net Hmmm, misconception about the .mdb behind the web. It all depends how you have the folder structure and IIS setup. For instance, let's say I setup a webserver with an E: drive. I setup the following folders: E:\InternetSite E:\InternetMDB If the web users only get access to the files on E:\InternetSite, but my code works with an .mdb located in InternetMDB, the database is not 'open' to the world. Now, admittedly, if you can hack through a firewall and IIS, to get local folder access to a webserver....well, you should be making huge bucks! ;) I am not saying that an .mdb should always be used, there are still advantages to using SQL Server behind a website. However, a lot of the disadvantages of an .mdb go away, when used as a 'local' mdb on a webserver. 'Multiple connections' are really seen as one user in the database. Unless your website has hundreds of simultaneous users doing something at the same time, an .mdb can handle quite a load. In an optimized database, reads are lightning fast, and writes are pretty snappy too. Want to see how much data an .mdb can handle, and how fast? Go ahead and setup web logging to an ODBC .mdb. That thing will run like a champ! And using ADO's Jet OLE driver, wow. Also, for future discussions on this, keep in mind I almost never create 'bound' applications (not in the last 7 or 8 years at least). Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 2:40 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net Hi Drew: The reason that MS SQL/SQL express is used in place of the MDB is not as simple as moving from bound to unbound. MS SQL is specifically designed to be in an unbound data environment and the MDB is not... just ask John if you do not agree with me. ;-) It handles multiple users (like multiple users accessing the same data at the same time etc), queued transactions, multi-step transaction, all with full security and performance (like handling thousands of anonymous hits). Having a MDB database is exposing all your data as the MDB can just be copied straight off the website. On the other hand MS SQL can not be stored at a website as it is one step removed from the web site, protected through your IIS or Apache server and therefore safer. If you do not believe me try out the free OpenSource web base extraction app called Back-street Browser (http://www.spadixbd.com/backstreet ) just to see how fast you can backup your website... or anyone's website for that matter. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 8:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net I concur, about Oracle and SQL Server. We have both here at work. While Oracle is a fine server side database, if I had my choice, I would develop in SQL Server (or Access) first. Oracle to SQL Server, in my view, is similar to Unix to Windows. There are advantages both ways, but to favor one or the other is usually due to experience and mindset. Susan and I wrote an article about using an .mdb behind a website. It is a common misconception that an .mdb is 'less stable' then SQL Server. As a network database, yes, there are issues to overcome. That is because an .mdb is a single file, with no server side database engine. But if the .mdb is on a web server, it actually becomes a single point of entry db. It will run faster then a SQL Server (except for full text indexing), because it requires a fraction of the overhead of a SQL Server. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 6:14 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net "Why SQL Server and not Oracle?????" aaaakkkkkgh... For lotsa techie info on why what where and who, Google " Oracle vs SQL Server" For me, it is sheer ease of use, and the fact that SQL Server logic largely makes sense where as Oracle (like the name suggests) seems to involve elements of faith or belief (or disbelief - IMHO of course). For example the Oracle NULL seems gibberish to me: For example: "Though common sense leads us to conclusion that a basket with one apple is clearly different from a basket without apples, in Oracle they are not different. So the empty basket is not different from a non-empty one, but then again, they are also not the same. Putting all that in one sentence, the empty is not equal to anything, nor different from anything, including nothing. It is a bit painful, isn't it? In theory, any binary operation involving NULL will also give NULL, but even that is not consistent. Add NULL to 1 and you will get NULL, but concatenate NULL to 'Donald' and you will get 'Donald'. NULL and empty string, as far as Oracle is concerned, are the same (but then again, not equal). And, to make things worse, there are EMPTY_CLOB and EMPTY_BLOB. Clobs and Blobs are strange enough for themselves, but EMPTY versions exist only to make our life harder." - From http://www.orafaq.com/node/1023 uh huh... make a lot sense? I didn't think so... Besides you can download, install and run SQL Server Express 2008 for free - and my word, what a fantastic product it is. Sure it is missing a few bells and whistles that the enterprise version has, but for most folks doing database stuff it has plenty of grunt under the hood. Rock solid, easy to integrate into existing Excel and Access Front ends and frankly a joy to use. It also runs great on low specced PC's. I have it installed on my Dell Lattitude D600 which is years old now (2GB RAM on XP Pro), and SQL Server just sings along. Process data much faster than having an Access BE - I was suprised, but the speed and stability speak for themselves. As for Oracle - well, I am note quite a member of the "I Hate Oracle" club, but one does exist. And the computer science guy I sit next to at work can give you plenty of reasons why Oracle stinks if you want me to press him on it. :) cheers Darryl. The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com