William Hindman
wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com
Sun Jun 28 18:32:08 CDT 2009
...lol ...did it hurt that much? :) ...the thing that really blew me away is when they announced that the Access Development Team had been moved out from under the SQL Server group which was slowly killing it and into the Office products group ...I track most of the relevant MS blogs and they certainly gave us promises that everything would now change for the better ...especially for developers ...that they could now deliver all those things that we'd asked for over the years but never got ...like an updated DAO ...fixes to longstanding problems ...transaction fall back ...a reliable JET engine that didn't corrupt every time a user nic flickered ...yada, yada, yada ...and reading back through those early blogs I'm certain that was their intent. ...then the Office products management got involved ...and all the developer promises went out the window one more time ...Access was an OFFICE product by god and it WOULD by god conform with OFFICE ...so instead of a new dao engine we got a ribbon ...and OFFICE users needed more focus on macros ...REAL OFFICE PROGRAMMING don't you know ...so we got more macros for users ...now THERE is something I use every freakin' day ...macros ...bloody cretins and I'm being nice, I am :( ...jc mentioned the tabs ...too confusing for OFFICE users eh, get rid of such silly stuff, eh ...bug fixes? ...hey, lets ADD a few ...nobody really uses this for real databases so we won't waste any quality time fixing or testing it, eh ...just make it pretty and look like the rest of OFFICE ...ta da!!!! ...look everyone ...ACCESS 2007! ...and it has a ribbon just like a REAL Office product, it does. ...I lived through the fiasco that was Access 95 ...stayed with Access 97 until Access 2003 finally got it right ...and my intent was to stay with Access 2003 until they released A14 with fixes for all the crazy sh*t they did with Access 2007 ...but no, that's not to be ...the blogs say its here to stay ...A14 will give us a "better" ribbon, "better" macro tools, etc, etc ...and apparently no one is looking at updating dao anymore ...and of course, they promise to fix the bugs ...just like they promised for every previous version ...yeah, right :( ...in the meantime, a client pushed me off the high board into the .net pool ...damn near drowned but I got paid well for learning it and hey! ...Visual Studio 8 is the developer tool that Access could have been but never will be ...I'm moving all my work there client by client ...some have to be dragged away from Access kicking and screaming but I'm a pretty big boy ...so like I said, A2003 is it for me ...the guys at VS are Microsofties who actually like developers. ...they don't insult me ...and I'm into that :) William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca> Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 6:10 PM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" <accessd at databaseadvisors.com> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > I do not believe it.... I am agreeing with John and William; AND AT THE > SAME > TIME. It seems that all developers, who really make their living by doing > development work, have the same song book. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 9:51 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > > Steve, > > Give it a fair go? Hmm... I have work to do. Do you mean spend the weeks > required to figure out > how to do what I can do without even thinking (it's called muscle memory) > with the previous version? > > Well, like I said, I have real work to do. I am a sole proprietor, I earn > all of the money for my > house, if I don't do real work my kids don't eat. I do not want to spend > the time to completely > relearn Access because some twit decided that I just need to do that and > too > bad for me. > > What would you tell GM if they tried to sell you a Camaro with the > accelerator as as a joystick in > the center console, the brake a pushbutton on the console, the lights as a > knee switch, the > windshield wipers as ... well you get the picture (I HOPE! Hmmm... maybe > not?) THAT is precisely > what Access has done to the PROGRAMMER INTERFACE with Access 2007. > > The POINT is that for 15 years Microsoft has given us Access, with all of > the hot keys, all of the > menu items, all of the database tabs. We learned that, we memorized that, > we programmed it to > muscle memory. Suddenly, for no reason other than some nebulous > "sharepoint > server will make it all > better" crapola, it changes. > > WHY? You steadfastly refuse to answer that Steve. WHY? What is the > POINT > of moving everything > around? I want YOUR ANSWER STEVE, WHY MOVE THE WORLD AROUND and refuse to > allow the programmer to > get his environment back? And don't EVEN try to feed me some nebulous > "sharepoint will make it all > better" crap! > > The POINT is that they are doing the same thing to the interfaces of all > the > other Office > applications, which are by and large USER APPLICATIONS in their own right. > It makes sense for those > apps, IF this new ribbon stuff actually improves productivity (and I will > take a pass on commenting > on that). The POINT is that they want Access to look pretty like Word and > Excel. Well whoopty > frickin doo! So now we have a pretty Access. Which I promptly have to > turn > off to get the ACTUAL > APPLICATION to fit on the screen again. HMMMMMMM!!!!!!! > > But Access is decidedly NOT an office USER APPLICATION. Ask a "USER" what > 3rd normal form is and > enjoy the deer in the headlights look you get back. Ask the "USER" what a > PK is, a FK is, an ADO > recordset is, a DAO object model is, what a recordset, querydef, hmm... I > could go on and on. > Access, from the beginning was about storing DATA in a logical, CONSISTENT > manner, and the USER > hasn't a clue. > > Oh yea, we now get sharepoint server, which is all about lists, I > remember. > Everything is a list > and nobody needs real tables anymore. Tell that to the SQL Server guys, > the > ORACLE guys. Tell that > to your BANK, your auto manufacturer, or for that matter to GOOGLE. > > For that matter tell that to my client in Bloomfield, Ct where we start > with > Policy holder, policy, > claimant, claim, benefits, benefit details (Parent through great great > great > grandchild) and that is > just the beginning of a DATABASE APPLICATION (let me repeat that) A > DATABASE APPLICATION, that > completely runs a disability insurance claims center. It contains 150 > TABLES, ALL OF THEM > RELATED... Primary keys, foreign keys, all of that stuff that will > magically not be needed I assume > with sharepoint server? > > Tell my client BTW exactly what of all the magical glitz and glitter makes > 2007 soooooooo worthwhile > that they need to upgrade, especially when the same old bugs that I have > been telling MS about are > still there. TEN YEARS LATER the same bugs are still there but we have a > ton > of magical glitz and > glitter. > > Do you get the idea that I am irritated? Do you get the idea from the > general response to this > thread that I am not alone? > > C'mon Steve. The move to 2007 is a PITA to the guy that does Access for a > living. And now... I > have to keep the old because most of my clients already have that (and are > refusing to move in > DROVES I might add) and learn the new just because some TWIT thinks it is > "better". > > My ASS! > > Ahhhooooommmmmmm.... thisiswhatIdoforaliving.... > > Ahhhooooommmmmmm.... thisiswhatIdoforaliving.... > > Ahhhooooommmmmmm.... thisiswhatIdoforaliving.... > > OK, I am calm now... > > Sharepoint? > > Ahhhooooommmmmmm.... thisiswhatIdoforaliving.... > > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Steve Schapel wrote: >> John, >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "jwcolby" <jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com> >> Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 1:31 AM >> >>> ... Microsoft imposes it on us and is absolutely silent (officially) on >>> how to turn it off. >> >> If you are concerned about screen real estate, it is very easy, as I >> think > >> you know, to minimise the ribbon until needed. Equally, from the point >> of > >> view of the finished deploted application, it is very easy to "turn it > off", >> if by that you mean not have a ribbon. So I really can't relate to what >> you're on about here. >> >> It is certainly the case that there has been no easy way to produce >> customised ribbons within your applications, without a fairly steep > learning >> curve. I have seen Microsoft people acknowledge this, and one would be >> justifiably disappointed if this is not corrected in the near future. >> >> I'm sorry to just pick one aspect of your post to respond to, but that >> was > >> the part that had me wondering whether you had given it a fair go. >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >