[AccessD] XML

Hi Max,

Try .NET XML - you'll be surprised.

--
Shamil

-----Original Message-----
From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 12:47 AM
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
Subject: Re: [AccessD] XML

It is VERY Slow though.  You may recall the EatBloat program. One of the
options there is to export tables, either as xls or xml.  The speed
difference (not to mention the disk space) is enormous.  IOW, processing
anything in XML has a time overhead.

Max


-----Original Message-----
From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil
Salakhetdinov
Sent: 03 September 2009 20:32
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
Subject: Re: [AccessD] XML

Hi John,

The Open Document Format is not MS invention -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenDocument .

We're not talking about storing XML data here we're talking about processing
it.

The fact is that using XML to process and exchange *documents* is a way more
effective than using relational databases.

Exporting relational data into XML format is not for "man's readability" but
to unify information exchange and processing...

Thank you.

--
Shamil

P.S. Forget spy movies - they are in the past.
It's Internet time now. (BTW, it was 40 years of first ARPANET connection
yesterday.)
Mentioning KGB here talking to me is not polite - it's like mentioning
somebody's nationality which differ from the majority of audience or
something like that - that's called "everyday racism", you know.
BTW, KGB is dead and their successor organization is called FSB (or in
English FSS - Federal Security Service.)

P.P.S. FYI, here in St.Petersburg, Russia, they (GM) started production of
Chevrolet Cruz today, and this production is supported by Russian state,
which provides very attractive credits to the Russian citizens who will buy
this car - now say that KGB(FSS) is not interested nowadays in your country
economy as quick as possible getting out of economical crisis... Several
other GM's Chevrolet models are the most popular cars here for ordinary
people to purchase - and you can see them a lot here nowadays, as well as
several models of Ford cars, which are in production here for several
years...

P.P.P.S. I've written several times here that nowadays Russian officials and
nowadays Russian politics are not what I wanted for my country but I belong
to a minority of population of this country who share democratic values
similar to your country ones - please do not mention KGB (FSS) when talking
to Russians, especially when you' re here - you risk to be ignored by
educated people and to be heavily beaten by less educated who hate KGB and
any mentioning of it as of being "part of true Russian character" can drive
them really crazy. KGB(FSS) is a part of communism monster, and communism
monster was seeded here from the West Europe. And it happened that the time
it was seeded here this country wasn't strong enough to resist - the price
for that temporary weakness was too high as we all know: best people of this
nation was killed, the rest was cheated by communistic leaders etc. - it's
not easy to get out of that "dark ages" but life is changing here to the
better, slowly for my life time but it does change to the better. Forget
KGB.

-----Original Message-----
From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 5:06 PM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: Re: [AccessD] XML

I have to say I agree with Stuart on this one.  XML is about as inefficient
as you can get for 
storing data.

We as database designers strive to select the smallest possible datatype to
hold whatever data we 
are storing in the data store.  Now you export a long integer to XML and it
turns into hundreds of 
bytes.  And all so it can be man readable?  When was the last time you
actually read an XML 
document?  What percentage of all XML documents do you (or any human) ever
actually read (in XML 
format)?

It is almost as if the hard disk consortium got together in a secret room
deep in a mountain in 
Russia, surrounded by KGB security specially hired to keep their meeting
private... and designed a 
"storage system" to help them stimulate sales.

"Hard drives have gotten so big that people are only buying one.  Let's
design this system called 
XML that will take anything and store it in layers of wrappers that will
expand the original size by 
1000.  We will sell many more disks now..."

"Now let's leak it's existence to MS and tell them that it has already
become the next storage 
standard..."

"Ahh... our plan worked, MS is now storing the world in XML."

Disk drive manufacturer stock prices skyrocket, approaching the share price
of Berkshire Hathaway..

High fives around...

John W. Colby
www.ColbyConsulting.com


Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote:
> Hi Stuart,
> 
> <<<
> Man-hammer-nail!!!
> No :)
> 
> <<<
> So now you need massive full blown database 
> management systems to manipulate XML 
> data?
> Yes. 
> Or .NET would be enough sometimes.
> One Example: MS Office 2007 (2010) documents are all XML based - now give
me
> a "hammer" to effectively search for information in them?
> 
> --
> Shamil
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart
McLachlan
> Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 3:22 PM
> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
> Subject: Re: [AccessD] XML (was: PDF vs Access)
> 
> <quote>
> The Toronto XML Server is a repository for XML data and metadata, which
> supports real 
> and virtual XML documents.
> Real documents are stored as files or mapped into relational or object
> databases, depending 
> on their structuredness; indices are defined according to the storage
method
> used.
> </quote>
> 
> <quote>
> Using the Sonic XML Server, organizations can simplify processing and
> storage of XML 
> documents 
> </quote>
> 
> <quote>
> save a considerable amount of time as well as development and operational
> cost that would 
> otherwise be spent for adapting traditional, yet XML-enabled solutions
> (RDBMS) to work 
> effectively in an XML environment.
> </quote>
> 
> 
> So now you need massive full blown database management systems to
manipulate
> XML 
> data?
> 
> Man-hammer-nail!!!
>