Andy Lacey
andy at minstersystems.co.uk
Sun Jan 24 04:08:22 CST 2010
That's encourgaing Doug. I'm a little unclear though what I'd be buying from here http://www.sagekey.com/installation_access.aspx . You speak of Sagekey scripts. Is that different from the Sagekey Deployment Wizard then? I had assumed the wizard was a tool they supplied to generate the scripts but maybe not. If I click "Buy" on that link am I buying the ability to use either method? Andy -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: 23 January 2010 20:30 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Deploying Runtime Andy, We are still using the Access 2002 runtime with Wise and the most current Sagekey scripts that take into account Vista, and I assume Win. 07 security issues. We have stayed with 2002 because that is where our investment is and don't need any of the new features. We have not had any issues with Vista installs or with installs of our package in Windows 07. The reason for using the Sagekey scripts is that then your application can run on a machine with other versions of Office installed and not cause the issue with Office trying to reinstall every time you run another version of one of its applications. The scripts also install all the runtime stuff in a separate directory so they don't get overwritten or interfere with anything else. Just be aware that they accomplish the compatiblity stuff by opening your application through a little program called runAccess.exe, in our version anyway. This takes care of registry settings, security and what ever else needs tweeking. The shortcut their installation puts on the desktop goes to this program with the proper keys, etc. If you look at the shortcut you can figure out what it does. There have been issues with the Access installation wizard in past versions. Not sure if that is true now. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 12:00 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Deploying Runtime Now I'm getting worried. Will the "Sagekey Access 2007 Deployment Wizard" install my app on any machine, whatever its OS, and whether or not it already has Access installed? Oh and if it does already have Access will it behave itself and not upset the existing installation? If I can't guarantee that it's a non-starter. Rocky, you must have this issue with your product. Do all of your installs run smoothly or do some get problems? Andy -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robert Sent: 23 January 2010 19:39 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Deploying Runtime Rocky, That's part of it, and a big one, but they also handle the permission system issues very well also.. Yea the Sagekey Access 2007 Deployment Wizard works well, but it is not ANYWHERE near as flexible as the Wise / Sagekey solution, which is of course not recommended for Windows 7 (and for me Vista) Installations. They have also chosen, IMO, some really odd default path structures for Windows XP installations. (They choose the "C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\AppData\....." for the <COMMON_APP_DATA> Variable). Which in my case will not work because the string that is created is too long for a windows desktop shortcut. I've talked with them about it, and suggested that they make the Windows XP location user adjustable, but they claim that it will destroy the foundations of programming and won't make the change.. I keep saying it won't make one bit a difference on a Windows XP installation, but alas they won't budge... :-) They are currently working on their 2010 version. WBR Robert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 2:16 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Deploying Runtime Sounds like I may be a bit behind the curve on Sagekey's product line. Doug says you can use their script for MSI - but IIRC there's some problem with MSI that the Wise/Sagekey combo finesses and I think it has to do with multiple version of Access on the same box with the run time or perhaps any version of Access and the runtime coexisting. But I can't remember exactly. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 9:32 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Deploying Runtime Ok, so I need Sagekey to create the script (wow, lot of money for a script!) and then Wise to do the actual install. Clear. And you say Sagekey provides the Access runtime files too? So, I develop my Access system as normal and need nothing other then Sagekey and Wise to deploy it. Is that right? Then my 'only' problem is that I don't have a version of Access later than 2002! Damn. Andy -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 23 January 2010 16:55 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Deploying Runtime Andy: Yeah you still need Wise. I believe Sagekey supplies you with all the Access files you need. Mostly those run-time files are stuff in Access already. The runtime, IIUC, is a subset of Access - just the stuff you need to run an mdb or mde without the files you need to do development - no design view of anything. The script you buy from Sagekey is a Wise script and like a template - very well commented so you can easily modify it for your own purposes. I was able to do it with a bit of help from their tech support - which is excellent, BTW - and didn't really have to learn the Wise scripting language. I have the script for 2003. I think they'll still sell it. Doug Murphy also is a user of the Wise/Sagekey combo and he can answer questions probably better than I. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 8:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Deploying Runtime Thanks Rocky I've been to the Sagekey site http://www.sagekey.com/installation_access.aspx . The Lite and Pro versions appear to be complete installers which bypass the need for Access Deployment but presumably you still nned the Access Runtime. But you still need Wise, right? Sorry to be dense but can you briefly take me through what I need and the steps involved in building an installation? I also note they refer to a single license for Access 2007. What if I'm using an earlier version of Access? Any idea? Andy -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 23 January 2010 14:59 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Deploying Runtime I have used the Wise/Sagekey combo for years with no problems. For that many installs it's probably well worth the bucks. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 6:42 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Deploying Runtime Hi all I know this has been kicked around before so apoogies for raising it again but time's moved on so the current situation may have too. Anyway, a quick look at the the archives didn't illuminate me. I'm proposing to take an app written in Excel and rewrite it in Access. Problem is that it will need distributing to 200+ machines Europe-wide, most of which won't have Access. Now I haven't used Access Runtime for about 15 years so am well out-of-date and could do with an update. I guess my questions are; 1. Any chance of me getting hold of whatever's needed (Access Developer Edition is it?) to create runtimes for older versions (Access 2000, 2002)? Have in fact just looked and there's a copy of "Microsoft Office 2000 Developer Tools for PC" on ebay in UK. Is that what I need? There's a copy of "Microsoft Office XP 2002 Developer 269-04560 COMMERCIAL" too. Is that the 2002 equivalent? If I buy either/both of these am I getting the right software? 2.If I get those is that all I need? I've seen a post on a forum which says, and I quote: "There can definitely be conflicts when installing ART to machines with full versions of Access. I use the 2002 ART and deploy those apps with the Wise Installer and use Sagekey scripts (www.sagekey.com) ... this script is designed specificially to install my application with the ART on a machine with an exisiting version of Access so that they can both co-exist. They're not cheap - the scripts are around $400 USD, the Wise installer runs between $400-$1000 USD - but they make your life a lot easier. Since switching to these scripts and the Wise Installer, my support calls for installation have been reduced to almost nothing; " Do others back up this experience? Id appreciate you guys' wise advice as always. Andy -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com