William Hindman
wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com
Wed May 12 12:02:40 CDT 2010
"IE9 patched up will fully support HTML5" Jim ...sorry Jim, but this is the type of lunacy that drives me nuts ...how can ANY browser "fully support" a "standard" that is still in development? ...Chrome doesn't, FF doesn't ...and can't ...it's a logically insane double standard. ...yeah, right ...the Chrome plug-in ...and then the MS updates no longer work and your clients are exposed to all that implies. ...in the meantime, IE8 gets the job done, and IE9, when released, will be closer to an ever moving "standard" than any other browser has ever been ...but the anything-but-MS crowd will still be insisting that MS should have used Web Kit instead ...what a hoot. William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca> Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 12:10 PM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" <accessd at databaseadvisors.com> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Web pages > Nothing progresses without effort. > > Moving a small site of 40 systems to better browsers is almost irrelevant. > This is not meant to topple Microsoft or anything like that it is just to > send a small message to Microsoft to stick to the standards and start > leading and stopping following while dragging your feet. Right now adding > the 'Google Frame patch' into your code can give temporary relief from the > 'older browsers syndrome'. > > What I am doing is insignificant in the scheme of things but a few > thousand > 'geeks' all doing their part will have the desired affect. I expect that, > IE9 patched up will fully support HTML5 and IE10 will be fully compliant > right out of the box. > > Just as Microsoft has made IE9 to only run on the Window7 desktop and > greater, so is it time to abandon the old browsers and move on. We are on > the verge of being able to design and mashup browser based applications as > powerful as anything on the desktop. > > I am working as we speak on a clients web site, building the product so > that > it emulates another Flash based site. All the pretty eye-candy but not > Flash > and it is really not that difficult with today's tools. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman > Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 9:45 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Web pages > > ...and then there are those of us who refuse to play the geek games ...I > design to IE8, period ...60% of the market is there despite all the > braying > ...and a well designed IE8 site using JQuery, css2, and Ajax will work > just > fine on 95% of the rest ...I long ago gave up trying to accommodate those > few who are going to be unhappy with anything MS ever does (including > stone-agers still using IE6) ...the fact is, MS effectively owns the > market > I serve and spending my time trying to satisfy the elitists doesn't pay > very well. > > ...once MS moves to incremental updating with IE9, this tired argument > will > be over (and IE6 forever dead) ...imnsho of course > > William > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Jim Lawrence" <accessd at shaw.ca> > Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 10:24 PM > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > <accessd at databaseadvisors.com> > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Web pages > >> Hi Karen: >> >> Thanks a lot for the comments. >> >> I have not used frames in years as most developers do like them and in >> many >> cases I have ended up following some pre-designed web sites and have been >> only requested to maintain the existing structure. >> >> I use JQuery and JSON extensively as most of my work is database related >> and >> I need a reliable structure (translation; accommodate IEs various >> idiosyncrasies) and has features that produce all those nice transitions. >> (Fade-in and out, shrink and grow, drift and scroll etc...) then there is >> AJAX features which poll data from various data sources and keeps the >> displays synced in almost real-time. Seeing my business is so dependant >> on >> above functionality it would be impossible to abandon... >> >> What I tend to do is monitor and use inline event handlers 'click' and >> 'onfocus" etc. rather than buttons as some buttons can be over-looked and >> a >> large dark or changed area is impossible to miss. >> >> ASIDE: I have a philosophy of making my systems as distributive as >> possible. >> That means moving as much processing to the client computer and leaving >> the >> data servers to do what they do best...validate and mange data. It has >> the >> benefit of keeping the over all performance fast and costs down. (This >> method seems to be in direct design conflict with the .Net philosophy >> which >> is just to increase bandwidth and add more servers.) >> >> I have been given the tentative go ahead to build a true HTML5, internal >> and >> employee external business web site. The site will of course block IE and >> older browsers so there will not be any display issues. I am still >> investigating IE9 but have not decided whether it is worth accommodating. >> (http://live.visitmix.com/MIX10/Sessions/CL27) I think a polite message >> like; "Please select a modern browser before attempting to access this >> site.", would be appropriate. >> >> Thanks again for the links. I will scan through the info... any more >> suggestions and comments would be greatly appreciated. >> >> Jim >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Karen >> Rosenstiel >> Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 5:32 PM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Web pages >> >> See inline >> >> Regards, >> >> Karen Rosenstiel >> Seattle WA USA >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence >> Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 10:01 AM >> To: 'Discussion of Hardware and Software issues'; 'Access Developers >> discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: [AccessD] Web pages >> >> Hi All: >> >> For all you web designer and programmers out there I have a question >> about >> web paging. >> >> What is the best method for paging through a web site? >> >> There is of course the rudimentary method of going from page to page... >> clicking on some object and the window is refreshed with a new html page. >> This has its benefits as it is simple to manage and design. >> >> The other common methods that I have used are the InnerHTML, the IFrame >> and >> the Switch Off and On method. >> >> 1. The InnerHTML method: >> I use this traditionally when retrieving data from various sources, >> re-formatting it and then pushing update between a couple of DIV tags. >> Its >> good for allowing great flexibility but it can eat the cycles. >> >> +++++++ Go easy on the Javascript and make sure it is 100% accessible. >> The >> purpose of Javascript is to make changes on the screen. For lots of >> things >> it won't matter to a visually impaired person if an URL turns bright >> orange >> on mouseover with javascript or something silly like that. But other >> changes >> require input from the user, and that can be problematic. Here's some >> tips >> on accessible innerHTML and jquery. >> >> http://www.alistapart.com/articles/prettyaccessibleforms/ >> >> 2. The Iframe method: >> This seems to work best when retrieving a fairly static page and then >> presenting it with the Iframe box. It is good for allowing whole page to >> be >> presented within a single square but it is difficult to allow the passing >> of >> parameters from the inner to outer parts of the window. >> >> ++++++ Usually a bad idea -- not accessible. However, here are some hints >> and sample code for accessible iframes: >> http://www.webaim.org/techniques/frames/ >> >> >> 3. The Switch Off and On method: >> The display data is hidden on the current page but by clicking on an >> object >> its display can be turned off or on. This method is good for fast popup >> type >> displays but it does make the page large and therefore slower to >> download. >> >> There may be other methods or variation on a theme and techniques that I >> am >> unaware of. All comments, suggestions and observation would be >> appreciated >> >> MTIA >> Jim >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >