John W Colby
jwcolby at gmail.com
Fri Jul 5 11:31:51 CDT 2013
At a job long ago in a galaxy far away I worked on PDP 11 and data general minis, which were used as test stands for testing graphics terminals. They had 32 kW or memory and a 5 mb removable disk packs. The DG had a start trek program, that old character based thing that ran on a dumb terminal. It would not load (along with the basic interpreter) in the 32 KW of RAM. I printed it out, on the old yellow teletype roll paper of the day. It was 15 feet or so of code. It did not use functions at all. No idea whether they did not exist in that language or the author just didn't use them. The result is that EVERYTHING used a GOTO. There was no other way of "getting there". I sat down on the floor with a pen and started drawing arrows from the goto to the target line. I learned what the term "spaghetti mess" truly meant. I never did get it to run, but by the time I was done I had a "spaghetti mess". John W. Colby Reality is what refuses to go away when you do not believe in it On 7/5/2013 11:17 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > No argument on all points especially from maintainability. > > There's a reason not to use GoTo - somewhat pedantic, IMO. But if using a > GoTo makes it easier to understand and maintain and from the outside > everything works the same as if there were no GoTo, then I say dump the rule > and use GoTo. :) > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman > Sent: Friday, July 05, 2013 7:59 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] VBA Field Names - Curiosity Question > > Tony/Darryl/Rocky, > > While that's all true to a point, an app can work as intended and be > stable, but still may be problematic. > > It may be a royal pain to maintain, or may not be as fast or efficient if > someone else had written it. So what other developers/programmers feel is > right and wrong and *why* is important to me, because if I can do a better > job then I'm doing, I owe that to a client. Plus I never know when someone > is going to pick up a piece of my work and judge me by it. > > So in the end, other peoples viewpoints are certainly worth while to look > at. > > Caring about what others in your field think is what separates the > hobbyists from the professionals. > > Jim. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > Sent: Friday, July 05, 2013 12:15 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] VBA Field Names - Curiosity Question > > "A good program is one that works" > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins > Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2013 5:19 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] VBA Field Names - Curiosity Question > > I feel you are right on point here Tony. If the client is delighted and the > app stable - than you have a win regardless of coding semantics. > > That is my feeling on the topic anyway. > > Cheers > Darryl. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tony Septav > Sent: Friday, 5 July 2013 6:00 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] VBA Field Names - Curiosity Question > > Hey All > Cut the crap. > Who cares what each of us thinks is right or wrong. If you produce a good > product which you should be doing as a programmer and it is clean and works > the way the client has asked (now I have seen some others pretty S... code, > not on this list) you have done your job. Who cares how other programmers do > their job. Yes I have looked back at my code and thought "Hey I could do > this better". You deliver the product and smile as A,B and C have been > completed and you have done your job done as a professional. Sorry to the > newbies. > > Tony Septav > Nanaimo, BC > Canada > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman > Sent: July-04-13 9:43 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] VBA Field Names - Curiosity Question > > > Since I moved away from mini-computers back in the 80's, I haven't used it > except it for one occasion. > > It was for a Bill of Material explosion routine and the choice was use a > goto to loop back up to the top of the procedure or call it recursively. > > I chose the goto because it was clear what was being done, it was faster > because nothing went on the stack, and it was less resource intensive > because I didn't have to declare my level array as static. > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2013 07:12 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] VBA Field Names - Curiosity Question > > Correction: > > I haven't actually used a GOTO, other than in ON ERROR GOTO, for ... > > :-) > > -- > Stuart > > On 3 Jul 2013 at 15:30, David McAfee wrote: > >> On Error GoTo MyProcedure_Error ;) >> >> >> >> On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 3:24 PM, Stuart McLachlan > <stuart at lexacorp.com.pg>wrote: >>> Agree, what is the "danger of globals" if you: >>> >>> a. identify them properly using a naming convention b. use them >>> properly by only writing them in one location and c. trap errors >>> properly. >>> >>> Same with Goto. It's a perfectly valid command which does exactly >>> the same as the heavily used assembler JMP,JNE etc instructions. >>> >>> It's "abuse", not "use" that have given these two their bad reputations. >>> >>> (But I haven't actually used a GOTO for many, many years - I've >>> never found a situation yet where there wasn't a "more elegant" >>> solution <g>) >>> >>> -- >>> Stuart >>> >>> On 3 Jul 2013 at 9:04, Jim Dettman wrote: >>> >>>> <<And don't get me started on the danger of globals.>> >>>> >>>> I've used globals since day 1 with Access; have never had a problem. >>>> >>>> It's sloppy programmers that write sloppy code that's the issue. >>> There's >>>> nothing inherently wrong with globals from my viewpoint. They serve > a >>>> purpose and like anything they work fine when used properly. >>>> >>>> It's like the age old admonishment never to use a goto statement. > You >>>> can use goto to your hearts content and still maintain well >>>> structured >>> code. >>>> It's a sloppy programmer that ends up with spaghetti code. >>>> >>>> Jim. >>>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2013.0.3345 / Virus Database: 3204/6463 - Release Date: 07/04/13 > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >