[AccessD] Is it over for desktop apps?

Arthur Fuller fuller.artful at gmail.com
Sun Sep 11 15:31:08 CDT 2022

Well, Jim,

You have certainly given me a lot to think about. Here I was, thinking I'd
be watching football (soccer) on the telly today, and now I have to think
about coding and such. Thanks a ton for wrecking my day. 😀

On Sun, Sep 11, 2022 at 3:42 PM James Button via AccessD <
accessd at databaseadvisors.com> wrote:

> Answering 2 first -
> My clients use laptops to run the apps I created and support.
> Those work on secure systems  in sub-basements, and out in the countryside
> -
> wilds of Scotland, Wales, north and southwest of England where the internet
> connections are, to put it politely not a viable option for cloud accessed
> data
> manipulation.
> When they get to locations where there is a secure web access, then they
> can
> access their corporate server facility, with its security facilities.
> For web connection, browser and emails etc.  there are their iphones.
> Yes, there is the new "Office Script", providing their systems have the
> appropriate licences,
> and they can get someone else to create the apps, and then modify them as
> needed
>  - ms changes, client requirements and changing corporate reporting
> processes.
> They will, I presume also have to - individually - deal with the changes MS
> apply to the apps and working environment.
> That, or go to fully managed systems - maybe 32GB RAM I7 level cloud  based
> virtual systems running Win-Pro
> Is that about £60 a month?, plus needing a fast device and a full time 10GB
> connection to  use that cloun OS.
> Oh!,
> And I too am supposedly retired, the apps I support having been created
> when I
> was employed, and I now provide support as my employers ceased trading,
> leaving
> the clients looking at a few 100K for a rewrite, and then paying for the
> rights
> to the created apps, and paying a software house for maintenance, or
> persuading
> me to provide support as needed.
> So, Question 1
> No - not developing new apps, as that would mean resuming activities as a
> fully
> trained coder in web based software - and charging enough to cover the
> continual
> re-training, and development environment.
> And 3 -
> What would you use to do what VBA seems to be (mostly) good, and at what
> cost -
> cash, and stress.
> And what will be the minimum cost  just to setup to do that.
> As far as using a cloud 'service' to store your data, rather than an
> in-house
> system ..
> Consider -
> The data will only be accessible through a www level? comms service
> provider.
>  The hardware containing the data will probably be owned by a different
> organisation
> And the storage used for your data will probably be leased (rented) by the
> organisation selling you the storage access service.
> Then - consider a liquidator's primary task -
> Make as much for the creditors as possible.
> You have no contract with the liquidator.
> So your privacy agreements are void.
> And what sells for more -
> A working system, or a collection of wiped drives  - remembering that
> wiping
> drives is an additional cost to the creditors!
> So - should any sensible business rely on data and systems being held on a
> cloud
> server  storage cluster - in what continent ? and only accessible via the
> linked
> service providers, or
>  - on your own servers, in your corporate storage area, with your own
> access
> control, and whatever comms providers you want to trust to provide the
> connections for your encrypted connections ?
> Or  is that far too much for corporate consideration, - same as backups
> that are
> crypto-malware, and earthquake/flood safe?
> JimB
> -----Original Message-----
> From: AccessD
> <accessd-bounces+jamesbutton=blueyonder.co.uk at databaseadvisors.com> On
> Behalf Of
> Arthur Fuller
> Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2022 5:17 PM
> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
> <accessd at databaseadvisors.com>
> Subject: [AccessD] Is it over for desktop apps?
> Recently I came across (on Quora) the following remark regarding fully
> fledged desktop applications. "Personally I think those days are nearly
> over and it would be best to move to the cloud straight away."
> Although technically I am retired and have been so for a number of years, I
> spent a good number of years developing desktop apps, primarily in Access
> but also in a couple of other languages.
> The term "desktop apps" includes both strictly desktop (both FE and BE on
> the same machine) and apps that live on a small network, with the BE living
> on a server. I have never written an app that lives in the cloud, even
> though I have a license to MS 365. Mostly my experience with the cloud is
> off-site backup. I tend to develop locally, so to speak, and then copy to
> OneDrive frequently.
> I'm curious as to your experience.
> 1. Do you develop apps for use on the cloud? If so, approximately what
> percentage of your apps live there?
> 2. Assuming that the client of interest has an internet connection, is
> there any reason to develop your apps *not *for the cloud?
> 3. Are there shortcomings (specifically with Office in mind) to
> cloud-based-apps that desktops apps do not suffer? I mention Office because
> many if not most of the apps I've written in the past couple of decades
> have consisted of pieces written in Access, Word and Excel; a few of these
> are quite elaborate, involving exports to Excel first, then creating tables
> within Word documents, formatted according to standards mandated by various
> provincial governments, and in Canada that may also involve translation
> from English to French.
> Let's stick to Access, for the moment. I have only a little experience
> deploying apps to hundreds or thousands of users. Mainly I've worked with
> smallish corporations or government branches with, give or take, a hundred
> users in a few cities, all connected to a Windows Terminal Server. My
> thoughts back then were that the FE should reside locally, on each box; and
> I took the time to create a self-extracting EXE which would deposit the
> latest install or update locally, with its connection to the server baked
> in.
> Bear in mind that in a couple of months I'll be 75yo, and so have probably
> --nay, certainly -- fallen far behind current thinking and technologies. So
> I'm asking for you to help me patch and paddle this leaking canoe.
> Should I be thinking exclusively in terms of the cloud? Is it essentially
> over for local servers (one per office, approximately)? If so, does that
> mean that the market for local servers is over? What advantage is to be
> gained, if any, by having a local server, as opposed to running it all on
> the cloud?
> And now we return to the classic question, albeit with a cloudy twist.
> Should the FE reside in the cloud, as well as the BE?
> And finally, can I copyright the name McCloud? Of course, I dropped the "e"
> and I know it! I am also confused by the spellings of "McX" and "MacX",
> wherein "X" stands for anything from "Donald" to "Hoolihan" to "Robertson"
> and any other letters I've left out -- oops, cannot omit Mathew Matthew
> McConnaughey. There are names of towns in Wales easier to spell than
> Matthew's surname. It's only fair: you can't be that handsome and have a
> name like "Bill Smith" or even worse, "Arthur Fuller.
> *Back to the Cloud*, the original subject of this admittedly incherent
> message. As so accused, I plead Guilty to the charge of Incoherence. In the
> past month, I have suffered two strokes, and while still able to speak and
> type, walking has become an issue. As William Burroughs said, "If I'd known
> I were going to live this long, I should have taken better care of myself."
> (Being a fussbudget, I corrected his spelling.)
> New idea for the next Olympics: Aquatic Spelling Bees. The contestants wear
> waterproof earphones and listen to the words to spell, and then enunciate
> them underwater -- something similar to two divers trying to communicate
> distress while two hundred feet beneath the water's surface. That could be
> serious fun!
> --
> Arthur
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