Shamil Salakhetdinov
shamil at users.mns.ru
Wed Mar 2 14:17:38 CST 2005
<<< > by Richard Mansfield > http://www.devx.com/DevX/Article/26776 >>> Marty, This article is a non-sense for experienced OO programmer/designer... You know that for sure. Why did you post this link here? :) <<< A frequent argument for OOP is it helps with code reusability, >>> Wrong. Code reusability isn't the main attribute of OOP &D.... Every experienced OO programmer knows that. "The point of OOP is not reusability, although it's a side-benefit. The point is that it's a good way of factoring the functionality of an application." (http://www.ftponline.com/discuss/forum.aspx?id=23&msg_id=634) <<< Why does OOP generate problems it must then deal with later? >>> I'd say procedural programming generates a WAY more problems than OOP... <<< But it got its major boost during the paradigm shift from DOS to Windows. >>> Wrong. As far as I see main OOP research & development done in non-Windows environments. This is just several years ago that MS "got it at last" and started to widely promote OOP on MS Windows platform (.NET Framework of course). But this is usual MS practice: they wait until a tool, a technology, a knowledge, a methodology got matured and widely approved and then they buy, adapt, extend,....it - so IMO the fact that MS is (successfully) trying to get leading positions in OOP world is an additional approval that OOP is a way to go... (of course MS "haters" and procedural programming amateurs will try to prove the opposite :)) <<< Nearly three decades ago the Basic language was introduced as a teaching tool-a way to teach programming to college students. Because its primary goal is clarity, Basic employed a diction, punctuation, and syntax that were as similar to English as possible. >>> There is no Basic anymore you know - there is VB.NET. Students are teached Java, C++, C#, VB.NET - no Basic anymore (Of course I continue to use VBA/VB6 because of my customers' requests but this is a "dead-end" in long run...) <<< Efficiency is the goal of OOP, but the result is too often the opposite. >>> Wrong. That's clear that "there is no free cheese...." - for the power of OOP one pays by degraded performance, which in most of the cases can be neglected. When it can't be neglected then they use procedural programming(C) or assembler.... <<< At this point, it's difficult to predict whether OOP will fade rapidly like some intellectual fads or persist like the long, bad dream of Aristotelianism >>> OOP is today's the only real and efficient way to develop getting more and more complicated real-life applications... Something new may arise but then it promise to be something extra-terrestal because OOP is a natural way of modeling and developing this world businesses and activities.... <<< To me, hope resides in the computer itself, not us foolish humans. I expect the machine to eventually be capable of interpreting human instructions in human languages. >>> I think they will never get that capability without advanced tomorrow computers and programs, designed and developed using OOP best practices... Just my two rubles... Shamil P.S. I have just found this article: http://www.devx.com/opinion/Article/27020 - "OOP Is Best in Practice In a rebuttal to Richard Mansfield's editorial "OOP Is Much Better in Theory Than in Practice", Dave Herren says Mansfield's arguments against OOP are based on outdated teachings and false notions. Yet he believes there's still hope for him. " -- Web: http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/shamil_s ----- Original Message ----- From: "MartyConnelly" <martyconnelly at shaw.ca> To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues" <dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 3:26 AM Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] C++ to vb.net conversion > Well I am an unabashed proceduralist and would much prefer to write > Fast Fourier Transforms in APL than having > to do it with an OOP language. I have been on teams using UML to churn > out PL1 or Cobol code. I don't mind patterns, however on an OOP > team, I always feel like I am in a trench and the shelling is getting > heavier and everyone else is huddled down > debating whether to load their rifles with .303 or 7.62 Ammo. > > Grady Brooch the father of OOP who worked at Rational Software before > it was sold to IBM > two years ago ,well now he is is dropping work on UML at IBM and working > on patterns for something called > aspect oriented development. This would be something like as an example, > the security aspect of system to system connectivity, > assuming similar underlying patterns.. > > Some thoughts on Ooops, procedural and generic programming problems > > OOP Is Much Better in Theory Than in Practice > Think object-orient programming (OOP) is the only way to go? You poor, > misguided soul. Richard Mansfield contends that OOP is just the latest in a > history of ideas that sound good in theory but are clumsy in practice. > > by Richard Mansfield > http://www.devx.com/DevX/Article/26776 > > And all the hate mail in response > http://forums.devx.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=136762 > > Further thoughts from Mansfield > http://www.geocities.com/tablizer/oopbad.htm > > Richard Grimes on VB.NET and VB6 columnist at Dr Dobb's Journals > What Microsoft missed. > http://www.ddj.com/documents/s=9211/ddj050201dnn/ > > Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote: > > >Marty, > > > >I meant mainly UML used for OOP real-life projects design & development not > >just UML for database model diagramming - the latter is rather trivial these > >days, the first is still state-of-the-art. But the first was investigated a > >lot during last ten+ years and there are very useful results IMO. I did > >recently get through "Applying UML and Patterns" by Craig Larman - it shows > >that UML is a practical not an academic tool and that when combined with > >Software Design Patterns then it becomes even more powerful and more > >practical tool... > > > >Shamil > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "MartyConnelly" <martyconnelly at shaw.ca> > >To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues" > ><dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com> > >Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 3:05 AM > >Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] C++ to vb.net conversion > > > > > > > > > >>UML. I had a funny a couple of months ago, when I got called into a > >>company to check their records rentention periods > >>for corporate compliance. I asked for a simple diagram of database > >>links. This was a large company and had a couple > >>of hundred databases spread around the country. Nobody had one. Don't > >>you guys use UML or data models > >>No that is passe, I was told. Each DBA seemed to run his own fiefdom. I > >>finally got one of the older hands to sketch me out a map on the backs > >>of beer coasters. > >>Transfered that to Visio then to System Architect. About a week later > >>the CIO got a copy of my basic diagrams > >>and demanded a fully fleshed out one, he had been looking for one for a > >>couple of years. > >> > >> > >>Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >>>>Developers know that no technology will take them > >>>>to the promised land that has been promised many times > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>Steve, > >>> > >>>I believe the sentence above will become false in another 50-100 years :) > >>> > >>>Not in my lifetime probably :( > >>> > >>>OOP&D, software design patterns, UML and UML-based software design & > >>>development methodologies and practices, agile and extreme programming, > >>>managed code (like C# & VB.NET, managed C++), effective risk, team & > >>>project management... - all these are promising, really useful and > >>> > >>> > >therefore > > > > > >>>solid foundation to get the road to the promised land built somewhere in > >>> > >>> > >not > > > > > >>>that far from today future.... > >>> > >>>Shamil > >>>-- > >>>Web: http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/shamil_s > >>> > >>>----- Original Message ----- > >>>From: "Steve Erbach" <erbachs at gmail.com> > >>>To: "Discussion of Hardware and Software issues" > >>><dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com> > >>>Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2005 4:02 PM > >>>Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] C++ to vb.net conversion > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>>Shamil, > >>>> > >>>>I visited your home page and was struck by the quote there. It > >>>>reminded me of something I'd seen in InfoWorld a few years ago written > >>>>by a former programmer: > >>>> > >>>>"If art is making order out of chaos, then software developers are > >>>> > >>>> > >artists > > > > > >>>>at the highest level. Sure, you will hear about advances that promise to > >>>>make the life of the software developer easier -- object-oriented > >>>>programming, integrated development environments, and now Web > >>>> > >>>> > >services -- > > > > > >>>>but walk into any development shop and the developers stare intently > >>>> > >>>> > >into > > > > > >>>>their monitors, facing conundrum after conundrum, but still fighting the > >>>>machine and bending it to their will. Developers know that no technology > >>>>will take them to the promised land that has been promised many times, > >>>> > >>>> > >but > > > > > >>>>faith in his or her ability to conquer the machine drives the sometimes > >>>>Sisyphean task." > >>>> > >>>>I'm sorry, I don't have the name of the programmer. > >>>> > >>>>Steve Erbach > >>>>Neenah, WI > >>>>USA > >>>> > >>>>On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 12:08:00 +0300, Shamil Salakhetdinov > >>>><shamil at users.mns.ru> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>>Unfortunately in HANGS ON my VS.NET 2003 IDE. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>It was one of the Add-ins I did download and install, which was hanging > >>>>>VS.NET 2003. > >>>>>It works OK now after I removed this add-in... > >>>>> > >>>>>So, I think this wrapper is useful... > >>>>> > >>>>>Shamil > >>>>>-- > >>>>>Web: http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/shamil_s > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>_______________________________________________ > >>>>dba-Tech mailing list > >>>>dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > >>>>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > >>>>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>_______________________________________________ > >>>dba-Tech mailing list > >>>dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > >>>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > >>>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>-- > >>Marty Connelly > >>Victoria, B.C. > >>Canada > >> > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>dba-Tech mailing list > >>dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > >> > > > >_______________________________________________ > >dba-Tech mailing list > >dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > Marty Connelly > Victoria, B.C. > Canada > > > > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com