Hans-Christian Andersen
hans.andersen at phulse.com
Mon Feb 18 14:42:34 CST 2013
> Wasn't that Microsoft, which pushed DHMTL/Javascript and Netscape. Also, Microsoft pushed for vbscript and activex. ? > Where Java-applets are now? > How is Sun doing now? > What company owns Java? You can thank server-side scripting languages like PHP and, even more so, Flash/Shockwave. JavaScript wasn't taken seriously until Web 2.0 around the mid 2000's. Also, Sun's collapse has nothing to do with java applets or Microsoft pushing dhtml/js. So, I'm not sure what you are implying with this comparison of java/sun and Microsoft? > How is Java evolving comparing to C#? (Hint: rather well but was it Java or C#, which first introduced lamda-expressions, LINQ, dynamic languages' features etc. Neither. Lambda expressions originated with Lisp a long time ago and several languages adopted it far before C# etc. Same goes for most if not all examples you can come up with. For instance, I was using LINQ like features in PHP before Microsoft put it in Visual Studio and branded it "LINQ". Ruby also had active record much before LINQ, etc etc. > But why cross-platform *unification* is so desirable there? I'm not questioning (communication/API) standards but I do not see how "cross platform technologies" could "save this world" without making it a "really boring flat unified plateau"? Because we live in a post-Microsoft dominance era. If I'm developing a web application on a non-Windows platform, it becomes very difficult and tedious to have to test your web app in IE, so most web shops drop proper IE support and leave it as an after thought. Most web developers don't develop on windows, btw. It's more like 80% macs, 10% Linux and 10% windows. To give you a direct example, my company had an executive meeting this morning and the topic of supporting IE was mentioned. The execs decided to drop support for IE for now and tell users that we only support FF and Chrome for now and maybe that will change in the future. Same thing happened at my previous company. This is obviously puzzling to someone who only works in a Microsoft world with only Microsoft technologies, but it is a reality. IE is the third wheel, when it comes to web projects. > I do not see how "cross platform technologies" could "save this world" without making it a "really boring flat unified plateau"? If Firefox and chrome can do it (and many others), there's no reason why the Trident engine being cross platform would make it a really boring flat unified plateau. This doesn't seem to be a strong argument, because there are plenty of examples that show the opposite. Besides, the web is about standards, not fancy new browser specific features every week. > Did you try to use just "IE Web Browser Automation" without quotes and 'all these words' search option 'ON'? If you Google "Netscape HTML CSS", you get 8.2 million results... Best regards, Hans-Christian Andersen On 18 Feb 2013, at 02:53, Salakhetdinov Shamil <mcp2004 at mail.ru> wrote: > Hi Hans -- > > <<< > Why not Trident? Because it runs only on Windows and is harmful > to the web, due to Microsofts desktop dominance. > Wasn't that Microsoft, which pushed DHMTL/Javascript in the middle of 90-es while "fighting" with Sun's Java applets technology? > > http://www.jr.pl/www.quirksmode.org/js/introdh.html > > Where Java-applets are now? > How is Sun doing now? > What company owns Java? > How is Java evolving comparing to C#? (Hint: rather well but was it Java or C#, which first introduced lamda-expressions, LINQ, dynamic languages' features etc. > <<< >> What (tools/technologies) are currently holding back > Anything which is not cross browser and cross platform. > But why cross-platform *unification* is so desirable there? I'm not questioning (communication/API) standards but > I do not see how "cross platform technologies" could "save this world" without making it a "really boring flat unified plateau"? > <<< > I don't know if it is. But Googling "IE 10 Web Browser Automation" doesn't return a lot of results to indicate > that this is an important feature for many people anyhow. > Did you try to use just "IE Web Browser Automation" without quotes and 'all these words' search option 'ON'? > > Googling (with advanced search - 'all these words' option): > > IE Web Browser Automation - 4,7 millions search results, > web browser automation - 9.7 million search results, > web browser control Automation - 2,7 million search results, > web browser control API - 4 million search result > web browser control DOM - 944,000 search results. > > As for the question "How many developers are there in the world?" - that seems to be about 12 million ( http://stackoverflow.com/questions/453880/how-many-developers-are-there-in-the-world ). > > ? > > Thank you. > > -- Shamil > > Понедельник, 18 февраля 2013, 1:04 -08:00 от Hans-Christian Andersen <hans.andersen at phulse.com>: >>> Does cURL or any other "automation" tools are able to handle web pages, which mainly use AJAX not web forms POSTs? >> >> Yes >> >>> What (tools/technologies) are currently holding back >> >> Anything which is not cross browser and cross platform. >> >>> and is it good or bad to have WebKit "monoculture" >> >> I don't believe we should have a WebKit monoculture. I believe we should have a world free of IE's Trident engine. I'm completely fine with Mozilla Firefox continuing with their Gecko engine. Why not Trident? Because it runs only on Windows and is harmful to the web, due to Microsofts desktop dominance. >> >>> so the process of decoupling could take quite some time, but MS engineers could definitely do that... >> >> Otherwise known as trimming the fat. Everyone wins. >> >>> Yes, I see - that's done AFAIU to better conform to HTML5 standards. But IE Web Browser Automation is currently an integral part of IE components, not an extension. >> >> I don't know if it is. But Googling "IE 10 Web Browser Automation" doesn't return a lot of results to indicate that this is an important feature for many people anyhow. >> >> - Hans > <<< skipped >>> > _______________________________________________ > dba-Tech mailing list > dba-Tech at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/dba-tech > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com